We all had tough times as kids, I was not popular in high school and was made fun of by a few people, who are still pretty awful people to this day. But when I was a kid and where I lived, nobody had a gun and no kid had access to any firearms. Nobody got shot. People got beat up on occasion, and they lived to tell the tale. It seems like what is a normal--though dreadful--thing for a kid, that can be survived turns into a nightmare when he or she is able to take out their sorrow or anger with a lethal weapon.

Two families have lost sons. Sickening. The shooter, who came from a tough background and has an older brother in jail, has destroyed his life as well as the lives of others. This is very tragic. These are children.

you must listen to this interview

I'm sorry, but I won't excuse a teen gunman just because he chose to take this path. He has taken the lives of two peers.

Does that not matter? When are we going to start teaching children that they're responsible for their actions? Just because you see bad behavior at home it doesn't mean you emulate it--especially when you know better because you've been involved in social situations (like attending school!) where you get to see how adults interact...

Two young people are dead because of the decision of another.

Ike, you are incorrect. We had gun racks in our pickup trucks, took them to shop class, cleaned them and repaired them. Hell, even the teachers and principal did the same.

We also had bullies. Kids were picked on and mistreated. I was on both ends of the stick.The difference was when there were altercations you settled in on the playground or in the gym w/ boxing gloves. Once matters were settled, even if you got your butt kicked, the "bullies " didn't mess with you because more often than not you got your licks in.

You can't do that now w/o prosecution and/or a lawsuit. If kids are not allowed to confront their fears, the result is desperate actions. People have breaking points. It's human nature. But trail lawyers and administrators prevail to suppress it.

I cannot imagine how afraid parents must be these days to send their children to school, especially after hearing of yet another school shooting. So many schools have metal detectors at all entrances, security personnal in the halls and other measures in place to protect these kids, and yet, it is never enough all the time. Tragic.

pushed, pushed and pushed until he couldn't take it no more. He is much the victim here.

What a load of crap to justify mass murder.

Kids killing other kids happens everyday in this country. Chicago, Detroit, L.A., Oakland, ect., ect.... Just because in these places the kids (gangs) wait until school is out and kill each other on the streets doesn't make it any different. You think the gang members who get and sell drugs illegally go and get a license and background check for the guns they use? I don't pretend to know this kid or his issues, I just pray for the victims families and all those who lose their children to senseless violence.

First: I am so happy to see that no one went political (too much) on this.

second: Today, no matter where you are (City or country) today's youths can acquire everything from prescription meds, drugs, firearms, vehicles etc. If you can think it up, they can get it with ease and they ARE getting it.

Some will attack the parents about teaching their kids, etc. Right, I believe that every parent should absolutely discipline their children and teach them right from wrong but today's parents are not involved (most not all) with their children. The teens slam their doors screaming about how misunderstood they are and parents come back with "well when I was your age I had it worse....."

Experiences are relative and the whole "I walked up hill, 5 miles, with no shoes on" sounds rough, today that same "rough" feeling for today's youth could be something smaller. I definitely do not think that coddling a teen does any good because you are preparing them for adulthood and they should strive for that role of independence instead of having the comfort of living at home until they are 50. Does anyone really want their children in their home your whole lives? Really? I love my child and he is an adult now and I want him to experience the good and the bad with life but I want him to fail on his own and build himslef back up on his own. But I will always be here as a consultant but not the "fixer" of all things wrong.

Take a look at our society right now, now think about who will be in charge when you are old, think about who will be taking care of you when you cannot take care of yourself. Hows that make you feel? You can see it generation by generation and how things have slid backwards.

Today: if you spank your child, that child could call SS. If someone sees you spank your child, they can call SS or the police. This gives the children the power to threaten parents with their "Ace in the hole" and it is because of the "kinder, gentler" people that believe that just by talking to their children, they will not do anything bad again. I am not an advocate for beating a child or anyone else but firm discipline can guide a child in the right direction of life and how they treat others.

Lkessler; You were a sheltered kid weren't you. That may be your reality but is not the true reality.

pushed, pushed and pushed until he couldn't take it no more. He is much the victim here.

What a load of crap to justify mass murder.

Read much" nowhere do I say I was justifying being bullied to murder" fact is theirs a lot of bullying but he shouldn't of had access to a gun.

Reported yesterday

"Erasmus told Channel 5 that a student tweeted he was going to bring a gun to school but no one took him seriously."

You have to take every threat seriously and report it.

I have vivid memories when as a child of 11 and at a friends house (of same age), he called me into his parent's bedroom, went into his father's head dresser and pulled out a loaded 38 to show me. He wielded it back and forth with his index on the trigger. A child with non-authorized access to a loaded handgun. Imagine. I only remember being extremely afraid because he obviously had never been trained. On our family ranch our training started at around age 10 with BB guns with advancements only after showing discipline and maturity. Children are EXTREMELY curious by nature and will get into whatever secret area the parents may have. My choice, don't have any weapons at home. Period.

Irony - A society that solves it's problems with war and violence becomes frustrated because their youth solve their problems in the same way!

Why should we be surprised?

I am sickened and heartbroken over seeing yet more children dead, wounded and terrorized in a school: a place which is supposed to be safe for them. Two more families whose pain will be with them every hour of every day forever.

The trust and innocence of a whole generation of kids has been taken away by these senseless shootings.

The gun debate has no place here: it is peripheral to the real issue.

The kid's home life has little place here: I remember kids in school who came from terrible home environments and kids who were bullied. They never went and got a gun and started shooting up their school.

Put the blame where it belongs: on the murderer. If it were your child who you were burying at the age of 17 you would not care about any of that crap.

God bless all the students and families affected by this tragedy. My prayers go out to all of you. As far as the coach who ran down the suspect, he's one of the bravest men on the planet. Without worry of his own life, he may have saved many others.

In my mind this is all about respect. We have lost respect for everything....for human life. The parents or grandparents of this child should have noticed what was going on in their childs life. Why weren't they communicating with him? Why did no one notice that this child was feeling like his only way out was to shoot someone? He was obviously lacking respect for himself and the people around him. As well as the people who bullied him (if they did) they need a lesson in respect too. I think we have all lost track of respect. Respect for each other...respect for other peoples items...respect for everything really. Its a sad situation. This child took the lives of 2 people and injured other over what? Something that his parents could have prevented by being their for their child. Sad. Really sad.

My heart goes out to the victims and families of this tragic, sensless action. When are we as a society going to wake the hell up. All I hear every day is the right to bare arms. It is as easy to get access to a firearm as it is to get cigarattes or alcohol for teens today. Most of this can be contributed to ignorant parents who always think their children are above doing things like this. And to find out that a message was posted on Facebook before his actions and nobody saw this, really confuses me. I had facebook at one time and find it hard to believe that nobody saw this message soon enough to prevent this. I will guarantee there were more signs or messages that could have alerted the police or school. It is a shame that all schools from Detroit to Mayberry have not taken actions to help prevent any weapons from entering the school. How hard is it to have a medal detector and security guard at front door of the EVERY school. I use to be a security guard & I know for a fact that they do not cost very much to hire. Start sweeping the students lockers more. If they have nothing to hide, then that should not be a problem. Wake up America, we are not living in a perfect world anymore.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to disappoint you, Joshbo... I went to several schools--both public and private, my father was a gun owner, and I own 4 guns of my own, and I have children. I keep my guns under lock and key.

And as my children grow older, they're going to learn to respect a gun for what it can (and cannot) do. Just because you are raised around crap, it doesn't mean you cannot reach for better for yourself.

I just abhor the many people who (like you) support the culture of victimhood. The only victims here are the two dead students--and they were just going to school.

The value of human life and our interconnectedness to one another seems to be turning into an evaporating cloud of steam. Honestly, I oftentimes think civlized society is barely clinging to a rapidly fraying thread. May the victims rest in peace

This is definitely a tragedy, all the way around.

That said, kids have been having crummy families, discontent and depression for years and years and years. Kids have been bullied and isolated from peers for years and years and years.

The finding of a weapon and taking it to school to shoot other students is a relatively new development over the past 20 years. I don't think it is the fault of anyone in particular, but collectively the system has failed this young man.

Kids aren't taught to value human life. The MSM teaches them to feel sympathy for plants and animals, but humans are something to be taxed and exterminated for the greater good.

This punk-killer's lawyer tries to paint him up to be a 'good kid' who gets impressive grades and his sister and everyone is just grappling as to why he would have done this thing. Oh and his family is just devastated and expresses their deepest condolences blah blah. Whatever. He killed two people and injured several others- throw the book at him!

This kid did something horrible and I am sure he knew better. This teenager should be punished to the full extent of the law.

That being said..... it wouldn't hurt to examine what caused this kid to get to this point. The violence at home, being bullied....

I have been bullied to the extent of wanting to kill all those mean kids and that was over 25 years ago - but I would never actually carry it out. And bullying today is so much worse and much more pervasive.

Add to that the fact that when you approach a bully's parents they dismiss you and refuse to address the fact that their kids are turning into awful people. I taught my younger brother who was very popular that he had to be respectful of everyone and to never make fun of or hurt another. The result is a good person who always stood up for those who needed it. He fought bullies on the behalf of weaker smaller kids.

We need to change how we teach our kids and we need to make sure that they learn to be caring and considerate of everyone, not just their friends, and to make every effot not to hurt others.

His actions are inexcusable. I sincerely doubt that anyone is trying to excuse it. We are attempting to understand why it happened, which is not the same as excusing it. Simply dismissing the action without understanding the motivation for it means it will be repeated. We need to learn from this situation and prevent it from happening again. If the shooter was tormented to a breaking point, perhaps it is time to stop tormenting others until they feel they can only escape the torment by shooting others. The prevention is difficult because people are unwilling to accept that this situation may have resulted from a bad parenting. In order to teach your kids how to behave in society, you must know what their up to. It is difficult but doable. Do not insult others by suggesting that understanding a situation is the same as excusing the behavior. That kind of thinking will only perpetuate the problem.

DisabledVoter, You said exactly what I wanted to say only better. We need to look at our roles within this cycle of violence.

@ Ike -

But when I was a kid and where I lived, nobody had a gun and no kid had access to any firearms. Nobody got shot. People got beat up on occasion, and they lived to tell the tale.

When I grew up and where I lived everyone had guns and few of them had gun safes. Nobody got shot there either. Sure we had fist fights but that was the worst of it with us too.

Well said Ian12345

Some of the posters talk only about holding this kid responsible but they have no interest in holding the bullies responsible for what amounts to psychological torture.

Examing what caused this to happen is the first step to preventing it from happening in the future with other kids who have been bullied.

The family of the gunman says they are "devastated by this most recent event." Hey family of murderer - it wasn't an event, it was TJ's second murder!

If children learn from example, it stands to reason that parents must lead by example. You cannot expect your children to behave in a certain manner if you do not behave that way. This means that parents must take responsibility for their actions or inactions if they expect their children to do the same. If you don't take responsibility for your arctions (parenting), your children will not learn to either. Again, the answer is in the parenting. Take a good look at yourself and your child and ask what you could do differently or better. The sad reality is that this situation was avoidable. Parents are too selfish to teach the tough lessons which require they lead by example.

I was never one of the popular kids in school either. I admit, I did have days where I wanted to walk up to whoever was taunting me or making fun of me and just bust his face open. But who doesn't?

I just started college this year. Things are a lot better now. The people who took the time to make fun of me in high school didn't take the time to pay attention in class. Now I laugh at the ones who are working at McDonalds. :p (not to their faces, that would make me a hypocrite)

Such a sad event that could have been prevented. There are always signs leading up to situations such as this. Had the signs not been ignored or dismissed one by one and were instead added up together and given the proper attention, this never would have happened.

Guns don't put themselves away in safe responsible places - logical, thinking-ahead adults do...if your guns are not secured (like you would like us to think they are), then you are the bad apple. Gun owners are their own worst enemy - say one thing and do another....sounds like the model this kid used.

Bully today; gone tomorrow.

Best story written on this type of stuff, was the Rolling Stone article on the Mariner High (Everett, WA.) shootings. It will take you back in time, to when your world was so small and one dimensional.

Agree, Gniese...some of the more memorable fights between me and my brother (we seemed to enjoy beating the crap out of each other as teenagers!) took place in the same room where the family guns were kept. Sure, it was a locked cabinet, but we both knew where the key was.

We also knew that opening that cabinet when our father wasn't around was strictly forbidden.

Umm, hello????

"The Lane family's lawyer described the suspected shooter as a fairly quiet "good kid" who had never been in trouble. His grades are pretty impressive... He's a sophomore. He's been doubling up on his classes with the intent of graduating this May. He pretty much sticks to himself but does havesome friends and has never been in trouble over anything that we know about," Farinacci said."

Then it goes on to say that:

She said the suspected shooter was a student at Lake Academy in Willoughby, which serves at-risk students, and that he had been at Chardon's cafeteria waiting for a bus."

Most "good kids" thats have "never been in trouble" don't go to special schools for at risk students. I call BS on the parents statement that:

This is something that could never have been predicted.

I feel bad for them, but at the same time, he's their responsibility. And it looks like they're already making excuses.

this is too bad. There are a lot of bullies alive today because I had the mental fortitude not to kill them. No mater how much you hate them, killing them only creates more problems. Or maybe he was the bully. No one knows.

@CJRR - glad I am not the only one who noticed that. Great kid, at a school for at risk students?

Also worth mentioning, one of the kids shot was dating his ex-girlfriend; sounds more like a case of a jealous ex than a case of someone who has been bullied.

The bullied eventually becomes the bully in order to survive. That is the reason the cycle of violence is so hard to break. Good observation Orthosophy.

Two symptoms if a teenage shooter:

1. immaturity combined with 2. a lack of coping skills.

The worst school massacre in the US happened in 1927 in Bath, Michigan, it was neither caused by a student or firearms. It was a 55 year old man who used explosives. Killed 42 people, including his wife and himself and most of the dead were children under the age of 12. This is nothing new, this isn't because "this country has forgotten God", or any other superstition. The largest problem I have with this and any other shooting where kids are involved is the fact that they had no business having any kind of access to firearms. They need to start charging people as accessory to murder if their kids get a hold of it, not negligent homicide or any other nonsense. If anything they should be held even more accountable than the kid that pulled the trigger.

Most of you are probably missing the most important issue here... It's not about guns and it's not about religion, it's about BULLYING. Some have said that this young man was bullied at school and it caused him to snap. Has anyone examined this assertion? Perhaps we should take a good look. Some others have called this approach "a load of crap," pointing out that nothing justifies the taking of two young lives. One must recognize that it's not justice we're seeking here -- for better or for worse our courts will decide that issue -- but something akin to 'prevention.' These murders have happened so often that they've become commonplace. The question of 'BULLYING' has always come up in the discussion of each incident. What, one might ask, is being done to prevent BULLYING in our school system and in our homes? I'm just asking.

Ike,

You said it best. In the day, you settled it outside and more often than not you became friends afterwards or at least a modicum of respect got established. And if you really took a beating your father might give you some more after you got home. Let kids be kids and teach them only cowards use guns.

Ercillor-2107261 wrote:

It's not about guns and it's not about religion, it's about BULLYING.

With all due respect, it depends on what one means by "religion." That's all I have to say == have a good day :{)

Peter Jacobs

I have vivid memories when as a child of 11 and at a friends house (of same age), he called me into his parent's bedroom, went into his father's head dresser and pulled out a loaded 38 to show me. He wielded it back and forth with his index on the trigger. A child with non-authorized access to a loaded handgun. Imagine. I only remember being extremely afraid because he obviously had never been trained. On our family ranch our training started at around age 10 with BB guns with advancements only after showing discipline and maturity. Children are EXTREMELY curious by nature and will get into whatever secret area the parents may have. My choice, don't have any weapons at home. Period.

You were lucky, Peter Jacobs. I have a friend whose 12-year-old brother was showing his dad's gun to a friend and shot the boy point blank in the heart.

That it was an accident was kind of irrelevant to the dead boy's family.

You want to end bullying? Shut down twitter and facebook. Words do hurt. Today With every twit having a smart phone they can attack and spread rumors about anybody in seconds. Disparaging photos and videos can be widely distributed in the blink of an eye. The Genie is out of lthe bottle and we have a new generation of entitlement minded, vengeance oriented, technologically enabled @!$%#s that think everybody on their friends list needs to know what they had for breakfast or whether they had had trouble passing gas unobserved. We've dehumanized human interaction. You can have 500 friends on facebook but not be able to carry on a conversation in person! People have become nothing more than charactors in a video game, and this is what is now the norm. God help us all! Discipline isn't allowed. The do-gooders and trial lawyers have de-valued personal responsibility to the point of extinction. Children need to be taught that their actions have consequences.

It's getting dangerous now that we have a generation of parents that weren't taught that there are consequences for their actions and choices in life. There is nobody left to teach the children. And thanks to progressive liberalism we are all so much more sensitive and caring as evidenced by this shooters actions.

(Rant off.)

Two symptoms if a teenage shooter:

1. immaturity combined with 2. a lack of coping skills.

@WillingSniper, you for #3. access to weapons.

MTPOLITICO: I think that you're right and I would like to see more posts like your's.

Dan From Cedarville says: "With all due respect, it depends on what one means by "religion." That's all I have to say == have a good day :{)"

Not entirely certain of your meaning Dan, but then I never could quite understand you guys who program in C++ .

But when I was a kid and where I lived, nobody had a gun and no kid had access to any firearms. Nobody got shot.

So you lived where? The Moon?

Guns are everywhere, the "fact" that "nobody got shot" is just happenstance and anecdotal.

Also, if someone wants to kill someone, there are many ways. The gun straw man is just silly. In my high school a kid set off a homade pipe bomb made with easily available ingredients.

When I was young my father moved around a lot in his job. Consequently I attended quite a few different schools. Because of that I had to make new friends and quite often this involved fighting to gain acceptance. I do not recall school fondly. I was extremely shy and felt a need to act outrageously to offset that handicap. If you do not slot it properly you fall outside the norm and end up associating with either a timid group or one that in those days were called juvenile delinquent or JD's. The only weapon might have been a switchblade but it was never used....just shown around and that was intimidation itself. Guns were simply not around and one's that were were "long guns" which couldn't be hidden unless disassembled.

I'm guessing this lad acted out of fear, not aggressively. When one reach's a saturation level of intimidation, irrational behaviour results and if a weapon such as a handgun is handy then it can play itself out as happened. Often the tormentors are not the one's harmed. The trigger might have been loss of a girl friend and the subsequent perceived humiliation. These types of things will continue to happen and nothing can be done to stop it because there is simply not enough time and resources in the system to deal with these ticking time bombs. As a student said "this doesn't surprise me. I knew him and he had reached his breaking point".

MTPolitico, I agreed with everything you said up to the blame-it-on-progressive-liberalism part.

This boy who did the shooting is emotionally disturbed and violent. His lack of sensitivity and caring can't be attributed to progressive liberalism.

We live in a culture that promotes violence as entertainment and dehumanizes others, but people like this kid are just as likely--if not more likely-- to come from conservative homes.

These kids who bully other kids need to have good examples at home first! Every day I see grown adults treating others with absolutely no respect. Just because these bullies grew up doesn't mean they changed. When are people going to realize and accept that everyone is DIFFERENT? Why can't people just be nice? You know, treat others as you would like to be treated. It's not a difficult concept. Until these parents change their ways we will always have a problem with bullies in the schools!

My heart goes out to all of the victims and their families of this awful tragedy!

This kid made a choice, we all make choices, some people make the choice to talk to someone they trust, to walk away, let it go, confront the person and "duke" it out, seek out a school counselor, he made the choice to get a gun and kill someone. Bullying, bad parenting, jealousy, or whatever...didn't MAKE him do this! He had choices, just like we all do, and he made a horrible choice without regard for anyone else.

The NRA should be forced to pick up the tab (funerals, burials, rehab) for all of these senseless shootings and killings. How many more people must die before this stubborn organization accept gun regulations?

Hey TomTom, WE ALREADY HAVE GUN REGULATIONS!

What other groups that fight for a Constitutional Right do you want to go after?

Why is it my guns (bought from a friend, no back ground check, no license) haven't killed anyone?

Thank you for being one of those people who blames the gun, The NRA, the people who own guns, yet give the parents, the school, and yes most importantly the MURDERER himself a pass.

When I first read this I thought, "Well, thank goodness no one died!". I feel badly for children who grow neglected and abused, UNTIL they start committing crimes. There are thousands of people both young and older people who grew up in horrible homes, who look around and say, "I don't want this lifestyle." They go on to live decent lives, contribute to society and leave the past behind them.

...and here we go again. The kid didn't kill anybody, the gun did. The gun somehow walked to the bus stop and went to school. The gun then scampered across campus to the cafeteria and started shooting kids. When will you idiots understand, guns don't kill, people do. If the kid didn't have a gun, he would have used a homemade bomb, knife, baseball bat, fork, spoon, rock, stick or whatever else he could fashion into a weapon. If it weren't for guns, we would all be talking with British accents or worse yet, a language other than English IE: German, Japanese, Russian. Would all you gun hating communists do us Americans a favor and move to Germany, Japan, Russia, anywhere but here.

@Tom tom 72:

NRA is not the problem - the problem was kid in a crappy family. I wish there could be a "Magic Solution" to this but there is not. Europe has even more gruesome mass killings, despite their super stringent gun-control laws.... and that is NOT including the Pogroms and Genocides over the centuries.

Save your fingerpointing for the Perp, not someone who disagrees with you, please....

Did I read this right? Was the shooter not actually a student at this school but was there waiting for a bus to take him to a school for problem kids?

Did anyone else hear this? If he was a "troubled" student, why would he be allowed to be mixed in with the general public school population? Maybe I have this wrong, but if it is the case, it seems like someone assigned to a special school ought not be mixing with the regular school population.

Seems a bit peculiar. If you have a special school for "at risk" students, why not get them to that school by a specific means rather than by transferring them at the main school? Seems like a real flaw in the system. We don't know yet why he was in this "at risk" school, but it seems like there probably was a good reason. Maybe he was there because of problems with other students. If so, why mix him with the other students? True, he could probably have acted out on the street too, but it occurs to me that it is possible, the very issues they were trying to address by putting him in a special school, were not considered in the method they used to get him there. Sounds almost like some poorly thought out cost efficiency situation.

If indeed this kid was a victim of excessive bullying, it sounds like the system actually may have made this worse.

But regardless of what may have been behind this shooting, there is simply no way it is ever justified. However, understanding all the contributors is important so such future tragedies might be avoided. There are a lot of troubled people in the world and it may very well be that it is just a collection of factors that push them over the edge. Generally, as adults, we look at someone we view as troubled and potentially volatile and we treat them a bit differently. Unfortunately, children tend to be about constantly testing each other and pushing things to the breaking point.

I know it is easy to Monday morning quarterback, but I look at the pictures of this kid and see a potential ticking time bomb. Not that we can make judgements about peoples potential future actions by seemingly obscure data, but often when we look back, we can see things that at least seem like some indicators. All that said, this kid was obviously in need of help. Unfortunately, he didn't get the help he needed to prevent such a tragedy.

Why is it my guns (bought from a friend, no back ground check, no license) haven't killed anyone?

Yet.

It's just a matter of time.

Every time I hear of children shooting guns and gang violence I think; what ever happened to a little fist fight. I'm not condoning violence but rather this obsession with killing. I'm just 40 and have very specific memories of not liking some children...being bullied and yes being a bully at some point. BUT I NEVER wished someone dead or had a desire to cause serious harm.

Here's how it went down when I was a kid....name calling first. Then progress to family insults (usually mom). Then get into each others face....then a little bump...a shove and a few punches thrown. Most the punches didn't land and there was an adult to break it up in less then 2 minutes. All over and no one seriously hurt.

Why are children today so quick to pick up a gun or knife? Is it video games? Poor parenting? Facebook and related technology? Things sure are different today.

Dear NewDay. You ARE being a Monday morning quarterback and since you don't know anything about the alternate school and the "whys" of how it is run, what kind of kids go there, why he picks up the bus where he does etc.(as we who live here do), please don't speculate .

I was not popular in high school and was made fun of by a few people, who are still pretty awful people to this day. But when I was a kid and where I lived, nobody had a gun and no kid had access to any firearms.

Same here, with the exception that I did have access to firearms (hunting family, lots of guns of various types). But although I frequently wished some of those scumbags dead, there's no way it would ever have even occurred to me to kill them.

Why are children today so quick to pick up a gun or knife? Is it video games? Poor parenting? Facebook and related technology? Things sure are different today.

My theory is it's a combination of these things. Parents let their kids play games where killing is the goal, and the internet, TV and movies feed into that. But no gaming or production company will ever admit it.

When are we, as a NATION, going to take responsibility for not teaching our children that THEY are responsible for their actions? Yes, this does include every child who decides to make fun of, harass, and BULLY another child.

The "criminal" is not just the one who pulled the trigger -- it is EVERYONE who decided to make that young man into an "outcast" for no other reason than he is "different" in some way.

The kid pulled the trigger, that can't be denied. But is it really so hard to believe that some gun restrictions might prevent one or two of these? I live in deer and turkey country- hunting I can understand and therefore the guns I can understand. But is it really 'that' hard a concept that those weapons, especially handguns which are much easier to conceal and have little practical purpose for hunting, should be put safely away?

Beyond that... we need better psych watching for this sorta thing. A security guard wouldn't have prevented this... maybe a daily scanner would. But I think by that time it may be too late. I don't like the idea of treating thousands of innocents as criminals in the hope of catching one criminal... so how much searching are you going to do?

@flbikerchick....I tend to agree. One thing is for sure re todays video games...they are VERY realistic. The graphics are TOO life like IMO.

The other thing I notice (bad parenting category) is even though these video games have an age rating system, MANY parents are blind to them or choose to ignore them. So you get a violent video game meant for ages 16+ in the hands of a 10 year old.

I was also the nerd in high school... and I played several metric %#$@ tons if violent video games. Never once was violence a real option. But you can't pretend how you or I are 'wired' is going to be the same as this kid. Maybe it's only one out of ten thousand that will react this way to THIS situation.

@Raider The second part is definetly true. I want to shake hands with every parent who shows some backbone and tells their kid the rating is too high... instead of just caving and buying their little 7 year old the M rated game.

So just out of the blue, this kid decides to kill a few students? This kid targeted a group of teens at a table. What do you want to bet those kids rode the same bus as the shooter? The 'bus' is where we should be looking for answers.

kaybeetoys 1.58 "MTPolitico, I agreed with everything you said up to the blame-it-on-progressive-liberalism part."

I stand by my assertions Kaybee. I do believe that the lack of a sense of personal responsibility is a result of an entitlement attitude. ( i.e. Progressive Liberalism) The "It's not little Johnnies fault, he was abused as a child" apologists that want to see little Johnny saved from lethal injection after killing his classmates.

I firmly believe there are some things you don't get a second chance for and capital punishment prevents repeat offenders.

Laughner in NM that shot Gabby Giffords still hasn't gone to trial. After all, we have to make sure he's sane first. WTF???, of course he's not sane! Sane people don't go around shooting innocent people.

Was the kid that did this nuts? Of course he was!!! In my opinion he IS terminally nuts and should die by lethal injection. He was caught on video standing up in the cafeteria and shooting an unsuspecting student in the head. He posted on his face book page that he was going to bring a gun to school and shoot somebody (inferred in the article). That shows planning and intent. What else did he post or tweet?

How hard should it be to get a conviction. I'll tell you now that some liberal trial lawyer will make it incredibly hard to convict this little @!$%#. And if convicted and sentenced to death some bleeding heart, liberal, anti-capital punishment group will protest to get a stay of execution

He did something that can't be justified, regardless of the level of bullying. If in fact there was bullying. His 15 minutes of fame should end now. No more news coverage until the death sentence is carried out and announced with a one line obit.

I know, I'm a heartless conservative. I'm somebody that was always held responsible for my choices and actions. I don't think that the world owes me anything so I don't fit in with the liberal crowd. I still think that people NEED to be held responsible for their actions and choices, That the real world isn't fair, That when you get knocked down you need to get back up and try again if you want something. I know thats not the "progressive" attitude. I guess that makes me an endangered species.

TJ Lane released a statement saying that the kids that were shot were completely random and he didn't even know them. Can we stop with this bullying crap and maybe just accept that this kid was a messed up individual who snapped and deserves to rot in prison. I mean seriously, there doesn't have to be a reason that the kid shot them outside of him being mentally insane.

People need to mourn the kids that died instead of trying to justify the shooters actions. You are all pieces of @!$%#.

I am so sick and tired of hearing the single mom, single parent theory and why kids go bad. I myself am a single mom. I was with my ex-husband (high school sweetheart) for 18 years. I had my son when I was 26 years old. My ex-husband took a wrong turn in life and he split leaving me to raise my (our) son by myself. My son was 8 years old when his father left. I received no child support at all. I taught my son right from wrong and to respect everyone. My son was raised around guns, another thing he was taught to respect. My son is not perfect, but I can say he has never been in trouble at school or with the law. At times his friends would turn against him and make his life miserable, we would talk it out and forward he would go. It does not take two parents to raise a good kid. It takes an involved parent to raise a good kid. My son is 21 years old and a very respectful young man all due to this involved single mom!

Ghostdad - No there doesn't have to be a reason, but we can still be against bullying. Many kids are devastated by cruelty even if this kid was not. Or maybe this kid was the bully rather than the bullied, and perhaps we could learn something that way too.

stull - While it doesn't necessarily take two (good) parents to raise a good kid, it sure as heck helps.

Crying shame

stull - While it doesn't necessarily take two (good) parents to raise a good kid, it sure as heck helps.

It's called quality not quantity!

By the way I was raised in a "Leave It To Beaver" home. Both my parents were very INVOLVED with all four kids. My parents had been married 51 years when my dad passed away in 2008. I wanted most desperately to give my son the same type of childhood I had with a loving mom and dad, well that didn't happen (the mom and dad thing.) Although I did provide him with a loving home. I was a very involved parent. We rode motorcycles, shot guns, water skied, picnics, I taught him how to cook, we read books together, played games, worked puzzles. I made time for my son after a long day at work. bedtime was 9-9:30 pm and up at 6 am. I didn't need a husband to be a FAMILY....we were a family and a good one at that. So please don't give me that two parents are better than one. Again it's quality not quantity!

Mental illness, abuse, and guns everywhere. Bad combo. Perhaps we should address these issues more seriously before more people have to die for gun rights or cuts to mental-health resources.

That's from a guy who owns guns.

The idea that kids have evolved into "better" bullies over the last 20 years is ridiculous. Instead of trying to eliminate all the possible reasons for kids to overreact violently, how about giving them some good reasons NOT to.

The two most notable U.S. school shootings in the early 1970s were the Jackson State killings in May 1970, where police opened fire on the campus of Jackson State University and the Kent State shootings also in May 1970 where the National Guard opened fire on the campus of Kent State University.

For heaven's sake--first, there are still fist-fights among teens. If there are fewer of them, it is because the "casual" ones done for the sake of other teens are less commonplace--a girl died just recently because she and another girl got into a fight over a boy (apparently).

Secondly, there have always been deaths at schools--back in the day, they were mostly knifings. This was possibly because so many fathers (who tended to be the ones with the guns) had been in WWII or Korea and had a healthy respect for guns rather than prancing around like one of those annoying NRA nutcases (as opposed to the responsible NRA people, who are actually fine people). Kids did not carry backpacks, so it was a tad harder to carry guns around, also. But, there was always school violence.

Today, there is far less violence than back in the day (though it is hard to get good statistics--knifings in school were so common that I don't think anyone bothered to keep track). The suicide rate seems higher--but this may simply be due to people being more open about suicide and not calling it an "accident." Gun deaths are extraordinarily rare.

It would be good to know what set this one child off--perhaps we could lower the rate even more with that knowledge--but let's not pretend that we haven't always had bullies, school violence, and deaths. We always have--and it actually happens at a lower rate today.

I think he should apologize to the parents of the other children. Promise he won't do it again and there ya have it! Let him go home with some probation and a bag of popcorn.

Ok people move along nothing too see here, move along!

archangel2000

...."People who kill will always find a weapon to use"....

Scomata194:

..."Also, if someone wants to kill someone, there are many ways. The gun straw man is just silly. In my high school a kid set off a homade pipe bomb made with easily available ingredients"...

These are but two of the "People will still be able to kill without guns" arguers.

My answer to them, F. Walsh, is that the same can be said, then, about people being able to defend themselves.

F. Walsh.

If, according to YOU, the worst school massacre was committed with a bomb, then using the "Let's arm everyone" argument will mean we all should carry concealed bombs then, right?

If bombs are outlawed, only criminals will have bombs, right?

You're convinced that you're making cogent arguments, but you're way off.

Easy access to firearms have made acting on impulse, committing acts of vengence and solving your problems with violence much more doable.

Have a nice day.

For those of you on the right who are using this as an opportunity to promote yourselves as devout, "respecters" of life, give us all a break.

You would just as soon kill a guy who's half way down the block with your tv, than respect life.

You advocate for the Death Penalty, bombing, torturing and napalming every Mideastern country there is.

You'd let a mother die if carrying a pregnancy to term meant certain death for her.

You don't give a rat's arse about sanctity of life.

Spare us.

Have a nice day.

If guns are outlawed, how will people protect themselves from their family members?

By saying that bullying is to blame you are simply shifting the responsibilty for this act unto the victims. Your comment suggest that these kids were targeted because of bullying, and since bullying is to blame; these victims would be the bullies to take that blame. No amount of bullying or anything for that matter FORCES someone to bring a gun to school and kill fellow students. Instead of finding an easy scapegoat (Bullying) we should be addressing the more pressing issues. Why do so many kids today feel that suicide is an acceptable alternative to seeking help, or that killing your peers will solve your social problems. Bullying does need to be addressed but ultimately are primary concern needs to be why so many children today feel that extereme acts of violence towards themselves or other is the soultion to lifes problems.

Yea but if this kid would have took his own life it would have been Oh the poor child was bullied so much he took his own life and we would have all felt sorry for him. remember the face book case not to long ago. I think this boy instead of taken his own life he took the life of the kida that were bullying him. No I dont think that makes it right but it would have been him taking his own life. You cant rely on the teachers. They are just as much to blame. They also want to be popular with the "IN" crowd so they go along with it, I think he should have just kicked those boys asses one at a time. This world is all cowards these days and have to bring a gun, Go back to the old time fist fights and this bullying would go down, I was in two fights in school myself. One when I just transfered schools. Like every one was challenging and the other was just some kids bullying, both times were fist fights and I gained respect after that, no more bullying. Fight for your self but leave the guns at home.

May 5, 1940 ~ Dallas, Texas ~ Two youths shot and killed 38 students and seriously injured 3 teachers when they were suspended from school for using inappropriate language toward a teacher.

No, bullying was not to blame. Some kid who took it upon himself to attack others was to blame. Quit trying to make a victim out of the perpetrator.

If the shooter was bullied, then he was a victim of bullying. Illogical to state otherwise.

Doesn't justify him killing the bullies.

Bullies are cowards and they don't pick on people they think have any chance of kicking their ass.

Unfortunately for him and his victims, the shooter didn't have the resources at home he needed to be able to turn to so that the situation never escalated to the point of resorting to killing.

I say quit blaming bullying, home environment, society, the school, guns, and any other damned thing people want to blame.

Blame the murderer: he pulled the trigger and ended the life of two other children and wounded and terrorized many more.

Come on Tina. This is America. We are not allowed to be responsible for our own actions - just ask any defense lawyer. It ALWAYS has to be somebody else's fault.

If you think bullying isnt to blame, go talk to a psychologist. I am not advocating killing the bullies, and I do feel that he needs to be held accountable. Beyond that, IT IS BULLYING. Its a different game now than it was when we were in school. In my day, yeah, go kick the bullies ass, and defend yourself. Now, kids lose a whole lot more than a few days at school for standing up to them. Think about the kids that set the kid on fire because they didnt get along with him. This isnt the same day. THAT is why I advocate PARENTHOOD and giving your kids the resouces to deal with their issues. But what do I know? I guess I must have screwed up because my kids have PROVEN that they are ending it by being the ANTIBULLY. Its easy. Teach them self defense, self esteem, and discipline. Make sure they know they are valuable, and for anyone to cut them down is because that person has the issue. And make sure they know how to defend others in the same position. It takes bigger balls to defend the victim of a bully, than it does the bully. OH! And if parents actually were involved with these kids, they wouldnt feel like killing someone was the only way out. I can imagine if I was completely alone, and no one heard me telling them I was having issues, if no one tried to help, and no one cared, I imagine I would feel like killing the problem would be the only solution.

freedman- Are we really going to use something from the 40's to disprove a point about RECENT events? That happened in the 40's, and was probably due to the fact that they were seriously beat for it. Anger management issues, perhaps? Thats what I see. I am really curious, considering I cant find the details of it, if it was bully related as well. I am almost positive you found that on the same exact site I did, just by using google to search your sentance. Word for word. We cant rely on an undetailed roster to find why exactly the kids did it, that was probably the opinion of the prosecutor, and was probably based on the times THEN, not now.

Where did I say send the kid home and get him into therapy instead? Parenting and bullying is to blame. I blame any parent that doesnt realize their kids are about to kill someone, just like I blame any person who will purposefully hurt a person to further themselves in someway. Bullies are bred by bullies, or they are hurting in someway, and usually its both. The person who kills needs to be punished accordingly, YES, but there also needs to come a time when adults start making their kids do better than they did. Isn't that what being a parent is all about? If I can make my son, who can and will defend himself and his sisters, the antibully, get awards for it, and I can make my daughter do the same, I am positive that everyone can do it. They just need a desire for change, not to sit back and not give a hoot. I am positive if it was your kid who had killed someone, it would have been "the bullies fault" because its real easy to tell someone what they problem isnt, than to do something about it. I cant believe people waste brain space on trying disprove a proven point. Especially when it is super easy to fix.

freedman they used dynamite to blow up the school......not guns....is it the intent you are pointing out?

access to weapons/ explosives is always there.......the question is why? are they taking this path. when so many others are open to them. seems to me it starts at home . my stepfather was an idiot. and a wife beating ass. i did not turn out like him. my mom saw to that. why my mom stayed with him . good question . teach your children to care about and respect others and it goes a long way. when this breaks down , this is what we have. the whole thing sucks for sure. too many parents just let their kids do what they want. this is a recepie for disaster

Basically kilroy, you are saying that parents being parents is the whole step, right? Be active, teach them better, give them the tools. Be a parent and this wouldnt happen period.

We had a depressed kid kill four teens (including himself) with his car by driving it under an oncoming truck in my high school. Should we ban teens having access to cars? Guns aren't the problem, the ability of bullies to get away with what they are doing is. Like one other respondent said, we had access to guns when I was a kid, and we had bullies but we settled it with our hands, not our firearms. The teachers even told me that since they couldn't catch the guys bullying me that I should take care of it myself (I think the phrase beat them up was used). It took a while until a couple of them were dumb enough to try it in a space that they couldn't get away, and they got what was coming to them in spades. Smart kids don't fight fair. That fact was proven on a couple of other occasions, so I wasn't bullied much after that. And when I told the bullies to leave other people alone, they learned to listen... QUICKLY. LOL

The problem with the situation today is that the kid striking back is more likely to be punished than the person attacking them first. Teachers KNOW (or at least should know) who the trouble makers in their classes are. When a dispute breaks out, the protagonist should be given a pass while the antagonist is heavily punished. This kid was probably unwilling to expose himself to losing his future by fighting back against the bullies until he had reached his breaking point. The problem with bullies is that they often come in gangs and will lie to cover each other's backs. When school districts and parents tell good kids that if they fight back, they'll be punished, they are denying those kids the ability to defend themselves. How can anyone tell someone else, "You are NOT allowed to defend yourself."? This does two things, it ENCOURAGES bullying by protecting the thug from retribution, it leaves the victims emotionally depressed at not being able to defend themselves, and it allows the bullies to escalate the severity of their attacks. It's amazing how fast a bully rethinks his actions when you plant a steel toed work boot or a knee into his testicles. Same goes for twisting a finger nearly to the point of breaking. Neither require a lot of strength, are very effective, and will get you expelled from most schools in this country these days. EVEN when you're the victim of an attacker. What is wrong with that picture?

We had a depressed kid kill four teens (including himself) with his car by driving it under an oncoming truck in my high school. Should we ban teens having access to cars? Guns aren't the problem, the ability of bullies to get away with what they are doing is. Like one other respondent said, we had access to guns when I was a kid, and we had bullies but we settled it with our hands, not our firearms. The teachers even told me that since they couldn't catch the guys bullying me that I should take care of it myself (I think the phrase beat them up was used). It took a while until a couple of them were dumb enough to try it in a space that they couldn't get away, and they got what was coming to them in spades. Smart kids don't fight fair. That fact was proven on a couple of other occasions, so I wasn't bullied much after that. And when I told the bullies to leave other people alone, they learned to listen... QUICKLY. LOL

The problem with the situation today is that the kid striking back is more likely to be punished than the person attacking them first. Teachers KNOW (or at least should know) who the trouble makers in their classes are. When a dispute breaks out, the protagonist should be given a pass while the antagonist is heavily punished. This kid was probably unwilling to expose himself to losing his future by fighting back against the bullies until he had reached his breaking point. The problem with bullies is that they often come in gangs and will lie to cover each other's backs. When school districts and parents tell good kids that if they fight back, they'll be punished, they are denying those kids the ability to defend themselves. How can anyone tell someone else, "You are NOT allowed to defend yourself."? This does two things, it ENCOURAGES bullying by protecting the thug from retribution, it leaves the victims emotionally depressed at not being able to defend themselves, and it allows the bullies to escalate the severity of their attacks. It's amazing how fast a bully rethinks his actions when you plant a steel toed work boot or a knee into his testicles. Same goes for twisting a finger nearly to the point of breaking. Neither require a lot of strength, are very effective, and will get you expelled from most schools in this country these days. EVEN when you're the victim of an attacker. What is wrong with that picture?

@wowed by the force - You are proving my point . You have said yourself that bullying was around when you were in school as it was when I was in school. But you go on to say that in those days you would kick the bullies ass and defend yourself, and nowadays the violence is much worse. This is exactely the point that Im making. Bullies has always been around and always will be. Bullying hasn't changed that much, but what has changed is the response to the bullying. If I give a kid a wedgie every day and after a few months he decides to bring a gun to school and kills me and 5 other students, which issue needs to be addressed first? Me giving him a wedgie or him beliving that his only recourse is to kill me and other peers? Of course the bullying needs to be addressed and dealt with, but the severe overreactions and killing of oneself or others is a more important issue to deal with. By stating otherwise we are shifting the responsibilty away from the gunman. We are essentially saying what he did was wrong, but he only did it because he was bullied. You are making excuses for an unexcusable act. I would argue that bringing a gun to school and killing fellow students or even just threatening them is the ultimate act of bullying

LT.- Thank you for that. I have to agree with that, as well. Kids are severely punished, to the point of becoming the bully in the schools eyes, for defending themselves. It is wrong that a kid can have his entire academic carreer destroyed by doing what all of us had to do as kids. How is it fair that someone can push someone into a corner without fear of anything, while the one who is in the corner gets attacked for doing what anyone in that position would do? My husband is the perfect example of what bullying can turn a person into. In kindergarten through 4th grade - sweetest kid ever. That changed when he was being attacked by a bunch of the gang banger kids in CO repeadedly. He didnt go and shoot anyone (though he freely admits that had there been a gun in the house, he would have considered it), but instead he started fighting back, which eventually led him to being a bully. To the fullest extent. Talk about an entire town hating someone. We still get dirty looks when we go there. The little town in Wyo where he moved was not prepared for him in the slightest. Guess what? He says the same exact thing: Parents not being parents. Kids pushing and pushing and pushing until there is nothing else to do. No one giving a crap about him. No one EVER taking his side. HIM being punished for defending himself. His way to fix it= be a parent. Teach your kids the right ways to deal with things. Teach your kids personal value, and other peoples value. Teach your kids to defend the underdog. Teach your kids self defense, dont make them learn on their own. By then it is too late. And the only thing to repeat- PARENT YOUR KIDS. Dont make them go it alone in this world. They are #1, not you.

I don't think anybody is saying this kid is not ultimately responsible for what he did and should be held accountable. It is also likely that the kids he killed weren't even the ones bullying him.

But why is that you are so quick to dismiss the effects of being bullied? Is it guilt because you were/are a bully? Or are your kids bullies? It is probably parents like you who, when approached about your child's bulling of others, dismisses it and does nothing to stop your child from turning into such a horrible person.

By examining what led to this kid's shooting spree, we can perhaps change how and what we teach kids, and possibly preventing this from happening in the future. What's done is done now let's try to stop it from happening again.

This means making bullies accountable for what they do as well. Maybe if the bullies were held accountable for how they treated this kid, he wouldn't have killed anyone. Again, not excusing him, but it's important to find the cause of such behaviour.

Agreed, mb.

I have never said that I dont allow my kids to defend themselves. Kick their ass. But they also know what the school is going to do about it. My issue is that what we did as kids obviously didnt teach anyone anything, as it is much worse a problem NOW. In our day, it didnt follow us everywhere we went, it does now. And no body wanting to do anything about it aint gonna stop it.

A wedgie is one thing. Spreading rumors like you are gay, a child molester, like little boys, and the other crap that the kids pull now days is way worse. Did you ever have anyone posting videos of you naked on a public site when you were a kid? NO! It happens constantly now. Dont play it like it is the same, or anywhere close. It isnt.

Bullies have always been around... I was literally tortured by a group of 6 girls in high school because I kissed a boy one of them liked... they pushed me, called me names, and all the way home of the bus 3 of them sat behind me kicking the back of my seat and calling me horrible names.... They even put a cockroach in my locker in a jewelry box that said Merry Christmas B%%^&.... I NEVER once thought of killing them or myself... NOT ONE TIME did it cross my mind.... Sure I wanted to kick thier butts, but never any real harm.... It's about how strong one's own mind is and the values they were raised with.

BTW my bus driver saw everyday what happened and said and did nothing... at least 3 teachers KNEW and said and did nothing.... My mother knew and she kept telling me over and over.. High school isn't forever and college is amazing.... She was so right!

Did you have internet? Did you have people sneaking around taking nude pics of you in the locker room and putting them on the internet? Did you ever have someone take every part of your life, at home as well, and turn it into something horrible? You had six girls do it for what? A few months? Have you ever had it for years and years? When you went home, you at least had some peace. Kids dont now. They have to get on the internet for school work, they do what any kid with a comp will. Look at their facebook. And then they see it riddled with @!$%# telling them to kill themselves, and other pretty bad @!$%#. And you were talking about girls. Have you ever seen what boys can do? I have witnessed it. It isnt pretty.

Wowed by force and others... Agreed with all you say about parents educating their kids re how to treat others! I think you need to understand the psychology of teens and the depth of their reliance on their friends. Teens have yet to grasp the idea that they can disagree with their friends and/or behave in a different manner and yet remain friends "in good standing" with their crowd. This is especially prevelent among girls, but do not exclude boys, as some of you have stated. Remember when you were a teen how important it was to have friends and be "part of the crowd." Beating up those who bully you...now...will only get you tossed out of school.

This killing is tragic. Agree guns should be unavailable. Agree parents have a responsibility. Agree that the bullying must stop.

True story:

I was trying to find the discussion thread about another school shooting, but couldn't. So I just told myself to wait for the next shooting incident. One friggin' day later, here it is.

For all you, "People can STILL kill with cars, pencils and knives" folks who insist that a gun is just a "tool"....

Why are you complaining about gun control?

According to YOU, you should be able to protect yourself with a car, pencil or knife. Why do you need a gun with all those effective weapons laying about?

You people make absolutely no sense.

Gun control. No more dead kids. No more OK Corral.

Have a nice day.

Come up with better arguments. I hate guns, personally but your statement is weak. Why would you protect yourself with a pencil if someone had a gun? That is not logical. Also, don't start your statement with true story, it automatically makes it sound like a lie.

The motive for the shooting remains a mystery. Fellow students said the suspect was a quiet loner who may have been bullied.
Some witnesses told local media he appeared to deliberately target a table where a student who had started dating his former girlfriend was seated with friends, but Reuters could not immediately confirm that.

Don't see a lot of evidence to support the bullying argument.

@Wowed by the force - First off your assertion that nude pictures on the internet are a result of someone creeping into a locker room is laughable. I have a 16yr old brother in high school now and I can certainly tell you that when a nude picture of someone ends up on the internet it is 9 times outta 10 because they sent it to someone. Did you feel sorry for Kim Kardashian or Pamela Lee when their sex tapes came out? If some fresh ass little girl wants to send her boyfriend a naked text no one should be suprised when its on the internet a week later. Another thing, since when is Facebook or Myspace a necessity in childrens life? If you are being picked on so bad on either site there is a real easy solution. Stop using them! What sense would it make for a child to call another child a child molester? You're grasping at straws here! When I was in school kids were called queers, queens, fags, and everything in between. I'll say it one more time. The bullying has not changed, the reaction to the bullying is what has escalated. You can be bullied on the internet now, but you need to understand that the computer is not water or air. You don't need it to survive, so if its that bad, log off. I do agree with you that a bully should get his ass beat. Thats the tried and true cure. Bullies don't pick on the jocks or the biggest guy in school, why? They are cowards and don't want an ass whooping so they pick on those that don't defend themselves. I also agree that its bs that if you do defend yourself you will get in trouble, but if you won't punch a kid for fear of suspension how the hell is the logical next step to get a gun and kill them? This is what needs to be the primary focus. Why have kids giving up on the old fashioned ass beating and decided that their only hope and solution is to kill. Whether it be themselves or others

You know it should also be pointed out that we have no idea if this was as a result of being bullied. From some of the reports it looks like it might have to do with an ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend. Should we stop dating now. I mean Im sure everyone here that is with someone was at some point with someone else. Is the gunman still a victim in this case? Some harlot broke his heart so now he's justified in his actions. Did the girls new boyfriend bring this upon himself for dating a girl when he damn well should have known that she had another boyfriend once? Unitl there is accountabilty and a return to personal responsibilty this will continue to happen. We can whitewash these acts all we want by blaming bullies, but is that really helping the problem or addressing the main issue?

ZOYCLEM says: "No, bullying was not to blame"

I wish that we could all know that your assertion is true Zoyclem --- or that even YOU could know it. Trouble is, we can't.

STEWGOTTS says: " I do agree with you that a bully should get his ass beat."

And what happens if the guy who just got "his ass beat" goes off and comes back with a gun? Think about that kind of a solution. It's happening a lot these days.

I agree completely that fighting isn't always the soultion and violence certainly begets more violence, but that does not negate the fact that some people need and should recieve a good ol fashion AW. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of knowing the future or every consequnce to every action, but that is not a reason to support inaction. Disgruntled employes get fired and come back and shot co-workers or bosses, but Im sure you would agree that we shouldn't just stop firing people. There will always be intangibles and unforseen results to our actions. We can't predict every violent action, but to suggest that someone should not defend themelves for fear of an extereme escalation in violence I believe is misguided. If you were assulted every day of your life would you refuse to defend yourself on the off chance that when you do that person may return with a gun and killed you? If so than your life becomes a lose-lose situation. You can either deal with the here and now of a bully tormenting you or suffer for years out of fear of what might become

It's amazing how when I sit back I soon realize that now I have been dragged into the whole argument of bullying, and that should not be the issue. What we should be discussing and the problem we should be focusing on is why did this kid and so many like him think that taking a life is the answer. Life sucks sometimes. I've been dumped, cheated on, fired, picked on, and just a bunch of other sh*tty thing, but what makes us productive well-adjusted adults is are ability to perservere and overcome obstacles. It needs to be made crystal clear to children from a young age that no matter what someone says or does to you or what life throws at you, taking the life of yourself or another is never the answer.

Stewgotts says: " taking the life of yourself or another is never the answer."

There are times when taking a life has to be done -- as in warfare, for instance -- but we're talking about a setting in which this rarely occurs. Bullying DOES occur in a school setting though --- A LOT. Only the reasoning of a Neanderthal would deny that, and only the statements of a very intelligent young man who enjoys 'debating' and who employs the use of sophistry in order to ignore the obvious would attempt to place blame elsewhere. It's that last part which I find to be "AMAZING."

Ok ercillor I do agree that bullying occurs in schools on a regular basis. Re-read my other post and you will see that I have never denied that and in fact have supported that assertion. This is my point. You seem like an intelligent person, so I can only assume that you also agree that bullying is not a recent phenomenon. If we can agree on the fact that bullying has been occuring since I was in school, my parents were in school, and their parents before them, than it is you who is ignoring the obvious. Bullying for better or worse has been a part of the American education system since its inception. What hasn't been is the degree of killing we see today. Look at the number of suicides and homicides that have occured in schools since Columbine, and you would have to agree that they have risen drastically. This leaves us with two scenerios: One bullying has intensified to such a tremendous level that the only recourse is to kill, or the second, and what I believe is the most probable is that there has been some fundamental shift in our culture that has drastically de-valued human life and given children the impression that killing themselves or others is an acceptable avenue for solving social problems. While I do agree, and have always agreed that bullying must be dealt with, I feel that it is this shift in our culture and loss for the sancitity of human life that is the more pressing issue. If it weren't bullies these kids who have never been taught to deal with emotions and problems in an acceptable manner will simply find another reason to release their rage. It could be getting dumped by a girlfriend or fired by a boss, and that would simply leave us where we are today

There are no excuses for a tragedy of this magnitude. What this young man did is incomprehensible. That said, I was a victim of bullying all through school. I had friends but having friends doesn't protect you from other kids cruelty. I stopped going out on the playground in 4th grade, stopped going to the lunch room in 7th, spent every free moment in hiding. I did and do know how to deal with my emotions and have a hugely supportive family. It was brutal. It was destructive. It marked me for my whole life. I don't think we have further devalued human life, I think the method for killing has gotten more accessible. I had friends whose dad's hunted, they didn't own hand guns or semi-automatice weapons, would have thought that a foolish endeavor. If as a society we commit to making hand guns accessible, refuse to deal aggressively with the problem of bullying and continue to amass kids in large groups, there will be little we can do to stop these tragedies. I did not go on a shooting spree, I tried to starve myself to death. The paths are not that different

Stewgott says: "If we can agree on the fact that bullying has been occuring since I was in school, my parents were in school, and their parents before them, than it is you who is ignoring the obvious. Bullying for better or worse has been a part of the American education system since its inception."

So has cancer... Does that mean we should not attempt to cure it now?

Bullying is a form of sadism. It springs from an emotionally disturbed mind. There are those who contend that we are all predators and, therefore, somewhat sadistic ourselves. I cannot argue to that assertion one way or another but I do feel strongly that, if it is valid, then some amongst us carry it to a very highly developed, overt, level of behaviour and that these must be dealt with.

No 'one can say, for sure, at this moment, what caused that young man to murder three of his young schoolmates and to wound others; Perhaps it had nothing to do with bullying; Perhaps pressure was brought to bear upon him from other sources. This I know, however: There WAS pressure --- from somewhere and we should investigate in order to find out where it came from. If it was, indeed, BULLYING, then we should actively try to prevent it from occuring in the future. This sort of thing has become a national 'disease' (international?) and it will never be stopped if no 'one tries to stop it. We -- every one of us -- should be outraged when we hear parents, teachers, school administrators, and the police authorities shrugging it off as "a fact of life." We must come to terms with those facts and CHANGE THEM!

It's not going to improve by itself....

The nude pics is not true, eh? This was taken from

http://www.examiner.com/parenting-teens-in-fort-lauderdale/10-ways-technology-makes-bullying-worse?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next

10 ways technology makes bullying worse:

Facebook: Embarrassing pictures and videos can be uploaded to Facebook in a matter of a few seconds and ruin someone’s life forever. Kids do not understand the damage that something like that can do to a person. People have actually committed suicide because of events like these.

Cell phones: Growing up we did not have cell phones. Kids these days have the ability to take pictures at a moment’s notice and sometimes not in the most appropriate places. Nude pictures of students in the shower or in the locker room have also caused suicides.

Texting: Kids can bully by texting now. They can text everyone else at the same time something bad or embarrassing about someone else. They can also send pictures over their phone to everyone on their contact list. Bullying like this can make someone’s life miserable.

Flip cameras: These cameras are used to shoot quick videos at close range and can be uploaded to the Internet. Kids that want to bully just have to take embarrassing videos of a student and share them with everyone. Or a video can be sent to a parent as well that would get them grounded or in trouble.

You Tube: A lot of good things have happened to people by posting a video on You Tube, but a lot of bad stuff has happened too. People love to be the first one to dish the dirt on someone else. They witness a fight they grab their cell phone and upload it to You Tube. Or they set someone up and post what they think is a funny video to You Tube, but it’s actually very embarrassing. People don’t think they are bullying when they do this stuff, but they really are.

Gaming systems: Many online gaming systems allow conversations between the players. Teens have reported that someone pretending to be them said mean things or embarrassing things to another person. This kind of bullying is hard to stop and hard to track. It does however cause a lot of problems for today’s teens.

Blogs: There are teens that create blogs that post the latest gossip about people and will say nasty things about people. Teens feel that they are anonymous and that no one can tell who is doing the bullying, but there are ways to track down who’s doing it and there are some big consequences. If the bullying leads to a suicide the teen who is behind the bullying can be brought up on charges and sent to jail. Lesser sentences are losing privileges to use a computer for 2 years. Try doing your homework without a computer these days.

Chat sites: Other sites online have chat rooms where teens can go and chat with their friends online. People can go into these chat rooms and make up a user name and start saying bad things about kids in that chat room. Many times there is a chat room that the students frequent because all their friends go there so when someone bullies in a chat room a lot of that kid’s peer group could be reading it.

E-mail: Bullies steal identities and will sign into an e-mail account and send damaging e-mails pretending to be that teen. Inappropriate messages to a female teacher or a nasty message to the principal are all things that can really get that child in trouble and they didn’t do anything. Remind your child to keep passwords absolutely private.

Instant messaging: Bullies will try to send nasty instant messages threatening to do something to a teen when they see them next. Or tell them that they are going to make sure that they don’t get something they want at school like a part in the play or a solo in choir. Bullying can take many forms even if it’s just telling someone that they did a terrible job on their audition or they overheard someone important say that they did a terrible job. Anything like that is going to put undue stress on that child. Make sure that your child is aware and being safe.

For anyone to say "deal with it, its life. We did" is truly disturbing. When we were kids, we dealt with nothing compared to the kids of today. When we were kids, there werent computers, social sites, and cell phones everywhere we went. When we were kids, we had a phone at the house, and we had a library. Maybe a malt shop to hang out. Not the ability to harrass someone everywhere they go. The internet has made this partially so. Parents not giving a crap, not listening and working to address the issues, and a society that allows their kids to do this. EVEN parents of the bullies think its funny (I imagine they were lovely in high school, BTW). What they hell is wrong with people to think that whatever we are doing now is working?

agedsteak- Sure, I understand that kids are very reliant on their peers for many things. I also understand that they urge to fit in is great with most teens. I just feel that as parents we can also do something about how they react to their peers. It needs to be a self confidence thing, and they also need to know that doing the right thing is definitely not easy. I have noticed that with some kids, once they see someone standing up for someone else, they tend to gravitate to that person. And dont allow your kids to have to deal with this on their own. Parents are the ultimate authority on what their kids are subjected to, so they can and should do what they have to to ensure their kids are not to the brink of something like this. We hear that this kid comes from a violent family, so it is very likely that his parents ridiculed him for NOT doing something like "kill the little f!@#ers!" I can easily see that. "Quit whining, be a MAN!" Things like that. Its a damn shame that parents do actually treat their kids like this. But, it does happen.

"Bullies are good. They build character!"

I had a boss that told me that once. I quit, and deep-keyed his mercedes on the way out.

I was bullied all through school. I never wanted to admit it. But now 30 years later I know that it was bullying that I went through without so much as one ally. I was the outsider. Quiet, introverted, and a bit shy, I only wanted friends. Thank God for college. But the things I went through still haunt me. It shaped my personality and forged my poor self-image. I am disgusting. I can't hold a job. I still hate them all to this day. The only thing that kept me from harming them was the law, not my conscience. One bully became a cop. A perp-beating, citizen harassing pig. Today, two others are dead. Not by my hands, but dead just the same. One by a train, the other by a thug. Every five years or so I go back to their graves and give them a big green hacker and good healthy whiz. They sucked.

People have short memories. They just forget about Columbine and the others. This too will slip off into history, students will forget, and go shooting off their mouths and doling out humiliation. You speak of respect for human life? Bullies don't respect your life. They just make it harder to live.

If bullied, he was justified.

Bob, Dont let them do that to you anymore. Go see a therapist. I am not kidding. Abuse in any form is not able to be dealt with until you realize that you are deserving of the finer things- happiness and self worth. I have two men in my life- my dad and my hubby- that were abused and bullied their whole lives. Both have dealt with it in different ways, and both have had life long effects much like you. I see this, and that is probably one of the biggest reasons I became an advocate for kids. I cant stand to see someone hurt and bullied by anyone. There is no reason for it, and the sooner we as a people begin to change it, not excuse it, the sooner we can move past this. Just because its been there forever doesnt mean that its ok. I really dont agree that this kid was justified, but I do feel really bad for any kid that feels that taking some lives is the only way to effectively deal with their hurt. THAT is the biggest reason for change I have ever heard of. I think anyone who is that hurt needs some help. I also feel that he is a huge risk to the community, and that he needs to be in jail, getting some serious help. I think that kid has a hard life ahead of him now, and I think he is gonna need all the help he can get.

F Walsh

..."Come up with better arguments. I hate guns, personally but your statement is weak. Why would you protect yourself with a pencil if someone had a gun? That is not logical. Also, don't start your statement with true story, it automatically makes it sound like a lie"....

Sounds like you forgot to pay your brain bill again.

1. The pencil used to kill people argument is made by right wingers everyday. It's not MY argument.

2. If guns were harder to get, you would be less likely to need a gun to defend yourself.

3. It was INDEED a true story. Just because YOU believe it wasn't, doesn't mean it wasn't. I guess you wanna try and convince me that there wasn't a shooting just a few days ago, huh?

4. It's not rocket science. Less guns on the street, less need for guns period. Lax guns laws are the reason you feel the need to carry a gun. Try again, genius.

Have a nice day.

The metal detectors and officers are unnecesary. Schools should just ban school bags and lockers. Maybe require kids to attend afterschool activites so as to get bored minds to stop negative thoughts.

I don't think turning schools into prisons is the answer. All this really comes down to is the involvement of teachers and parents in the lives of the students. This kid didn't all of the sudden out of the blue decide to bring a gun to school and shoot people. These incidents are a culmination of events. All it takes is someone being involved with this kids life and they could have gotten him some help.

The problem now is that teachers and parents just don't care anymore. Teachers have the excuse of being underpaid, underfunded and classrooms overfilled while parents have the excuse of both having to work so they never know where or what little Timmy is doing with his free time.

Society has changed for the worse, and unfortunately, I doubt it will ever go back.

May 18, 1927 ~ Bath Township, Michigan ~ Three bombings killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, four other adults and the bomber himself; at least 58 people were injured. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age) attending the Bath Consolidated School. The bomber was school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, 55, who was ostensibly enraged about a property tax levied to fund the construction of the school building. He blamed the additional tax for financial hardships which led to foreclosure proceedings against his farm.

I'm not sure if bullying was involved,but if it,I know first hand what it's like.I and another student back in the mid 70's were harrassed and bullied by many other students.I had only one friend,but that was enough for me.The other student did not and ended up hanging himself in his fathers barn.Unless you have walked in the shoes of those that are harrassed,humiliated and intimidated on a daily basis you have no idea how overwhelming it can be,you feel like there is no escaping this turmoil.Some end up lashing out at others and some feel hopeless and feel suicide is the only option left.

In our case you feel ashamed and don't tell your parents.The teachers can see it happening,but decline to get involved.Other students simply ignore your situation or join in the torment.It's a very serious problem,and will continue to be unless parents start paying attention.

You're right and the problem today is that the teachers and administrators only get involved when the victim fights back. I was bullied as a kid and finally began beating the bullies badly enough that the word got out and they decided it wasn't worth the beating that they'd get. When my daughter entered school, there was a bully on the school bus. When we contacted the school, they took the bully's side saying that she was just acting out. So I taught my daughter to defend herself. One incident of almost having her thumb broken with a simple take down move and amazingly the bully stopped acting out. Funny how that works huh? When I told the teacher that I was going to have my daughter deal with the problem, she was more concerned about my daughter hurting the bully than the other way around. There was no more bullying that year.

The one's who should feel ashamed are the teachers who allow it to go on without taking action against the aggressors.

That is not how it works in schools now, we take bullying very seriously. If you have told that you were bullied and it is documented and it gets to the point that you have to fight...(we sincerely try to make sure the bullying stops... but a lot of it happens in their apartment complexes) the bullied WILL NOT get into trouble.... but you can't come back and say... I was bullied, but I never told anyone.... If teachers and administrators don't know, they cannot help.

Mike757 says: " All this really comes down to is the involvement of teachers and parents in the lives of the students."

And that is bad? What were they supposed to be doing in the first place?

My Opine says: " IF you have told that you were bullied AND it is documented AND it gets to the point that you have to fight...(we sincerely TRY to make sure the bullying stops... BUT... "

Alright, the capitalization is my own but just read it back the way it looks now. Wouldn't you agree that it is an extremely weak statement?

Thanks anyway Mr. O'Reilly.

freedman1-

Thanks for your perspective.

I believe if you take the time to look back in our history you will find many such incidents. Violence and killing is nothing new. Remember Leopold and Loeb?

The difference is that now there are more people, and they all live in more concentrated areas. That, plus the fact that 30 or 50 years ago, news stories such as this one tended to stay at the local level, and we might or might not hear of them.

You are exactly right! I've been saying the same thing for years. Yelling at a kid does nothing..you can't spank them or they threaten cps on you. Oh yeah, put them on a "time out" they say. Send them to their rooms with their computers, video games, tv's and cell phones, yeah that'll teach them. There are no consequences for kids anymore, so they do as they please. A lot of parents are now afraid of their kids. When is CPS going to get it through their heads....there is a difference between beating and abusing a kid, and disciplining them. Nobody ever died from an old fashioned spanking.

Scooter- I agree. Kids need not to have an opinion anymore. They need to listen more and understand that whatever is influencing tv, ipod, movies, that they are just that, entertainment.

Did you not read the part that said the kid came from a violent family?

No one can predict how another will react when pushed to the limit. The 'shooter' should have used another method to solve his situation but probaly felt that there was no other way out.

Sweden banned corporal punishment, but they don't have the problems that we have. The issue isn't corporal punishment; it's the lack of discipline and structure, and the parents are responsible to provide it. Now a days, parents want to be friends with their kids, buy them fancy electronics and cars and get them drunk.

People talk about kids should be taught Discipline and Respect and thats fine. I believe instilling morals into young minds is a great tool...teaching your children right from wrong and being the number #1 Parent(s) of the year...BUT understanding our children and the stress that pure pressure has on them in and out of school is crazy... I sit here and think that wow they are just kids, what stress can they possibly have??? What problems could they possibly face?, ya know? But It's true, kids are cruel and will do anything to hurt, disrespect, etc... another's feelings...When I went to school, yea there was stress, but not like today. A lot has changed and as parents we really need to focus on what could be going on in and out of school. I guess maybe listen to your kids, still be the adult, but give them some leeway to voice some concern as to what could be eating at them so maybe we could help... As to the school and the actions they took was great, making sure the students were fine and secure, but understand this the incident was isolated in the cafateria. They should authorize atleast one individual to be allowed to carry arms in the school for protection. I would feel abit safer knowing that my Kid's Math teacher has the authority to protect my kids if needs be.. Thank you...

My husband, as a child, was abused, almost killed multiple times by one of his abusers, bullied and had no one to help him. Teachers looked away when he came to school dirty with cuts and bruises. They looked away when he came to school drunk at 8 years old because it was his way of escaping his reality. Teachers dismissed him as a bad apple when he started acting out. His mother looked away and did nothing to help him and keep him safe. He was on a bad path to harming himself, others...throwing his life away. Then, his mother left that man and dated and married a good man. A man that helped my husband throughhard work and discipline. Not physical discipline, but by getting involved in his life, giving him work to do, something he could be proud of, giving him understanding and advice without coddling or demeaning him. Today, my husband is a wonderful man. Kind to others, understanding, helpful and thoughtful, hardworking and respected as a good man by others. All it took was one person getting involved and taking time with him. I listen to his stories about how the adults in his life treated him and it makes me angry. I'm also amazed how one person made such a huge difference in his life and I am thankful to him.

I absolutely do not condone what this child did. He should be punished. I can't imagine what his victims, his victims' families, and his family are going through because of his actions. I also do not condemn his victims because of their supposed bullying. What they may have done was unacceptable, but obviously did not merit this. I do know what a history of abuse, bullying, and neglect from those you count on to help you can do to a person though. If only someone had stepped in, or up, and got involved, maybe this would have turned out differently. We'll never know.

Dru- Agreed. Be a frigging parent, and the whole set of dominoes comes down. I tell my kids everyday to defend themselves, that I will always have their back in that, no matter what. If you believe in what you are doing so much that you feel it needs to be defended, I will always have your back. If you are defending someone else that cant, I will always have your back. That really isnt so hard. Let your kids tell you about their problems at school. They will if you listen.

You are so right!

Wowed;

What means " I will always have their back?" I get the idea but don't recognize the expression. Is it a colloquialism? From where? Just curious.

"I have your back" means I'm supporting you, covering your back, etc.

Ken;

Thanks. My generation never used it. Is it Marine Corps usage?

No, just a friendly "I will stand up for ya", from the younger generation, maybe?

I am pretty old, and I have always heard that expression.

For every person that acts on their murderous impulse, there are a thousand that wish, "If I only had a gun."

Fewer guns. Safer world.

Have a nice day.

Right. You make everyone teach values to their children. Please explain the plan.

It should come naturally should it not? How did your parents teach you values and respect? I doubt someone "made" them or some one told them how to from A to Z...

AJ, I agree with your posts. Ike, how about starting with potential parents having to get a license to have a child? If you don't have the morals, intelligence, etc.. then you don't get to raise children. We have the same people have to get a license to drive a car, but not raise a child? Currently any person can procreate, regardless of IQ. I see that as a big problem....

You make everyone teach values to their children.

I agree with you Ike. You'll never be able to teach anybody a concept you don't understand yourself. Maybe your neighbours can help you - and your kids.

crymeariver313-That's an ignorant statement, would you really like the government to tell you if you can or cannot have a child? Since when do they need MORE power. Sounds like communism to me. Let's all go to China where they can only have 1-2 kids.

Guns don't kill people, children of ---holes like Bob do.

Bob is absoluetly right.

Mtpolitico is absoluetely wrong.

Oh, please. you can your "god" in your home and at church. Funny how you never want to bother bringing your kids to church or teaching them at home - no, you want nanny gov't to do it for you. Newsflash: the Columbine killers were raised with "god". Fat lot of good it did, too. I'll bet t his kid was also raised to believe in "god". Aren't most people? And yet our jails are bursting. Time for a new god, maybe. Try Buddhism or Hinduism. Barely any from these religions sitting in jail cells or shooting up schools and workplaces. Think about it.

Oh for koresh sakes, what a load of crap. So this happened because your violent fairytales wern't jammed down these kids throats?

You may think that the founding fathers wanted everyone to be armed. Fact is it's about a "well regulated militia". The first amendment is about freedom of religion and separation of church and state: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". God does not belong in schools. If you want to teach your kids about it at home - that's fine.

The term militia ( /mɨˈlɪʃə/)^[1], or irregular army, is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens^[2] to provide defence, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service. It is a polyseme with multiple distinct but related meanings.

Taken from wikipedia. That pretty much means that ordinary citizens should be armed, in the eyes of the constitution.

No Scooter, this has nothing to do with having "taken God out of our schools." Can you even tell me exactly when God was taken out of schools? Its a ridiculous statement, which is always remarked by Christians. I bet you wouldnt want Jewish prayer or Muslim prayer in schools. Thanks anyway, but the problem is irresponsible gun owners and bullying.

Sammy-

You may think that the founding fathers wanted everyone to be armed. Fact is it's about a "well regulated militia".

Fact?

Nice try, but thats incorrect.

If what you are spewing were capable of holding any water at all, then I can't imagine why the progress of Shall Issue and Castle Doctrine States advancing as it has, or the 2nd Amendment not meaning exactly what it says.

www.kc3.com/CCW_progress.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine#cite_ref-9

If you look up militia (DOJ) you will find that it includes ALL able bodied men, both military/ organized, and non military/ UNORGANIZED, including from the citizenry from 17 up. (Women too) .

"Well Regulated"

There is no confusion as to its meaning as you imply. It means what it has always meant, as confirmed many times by the S.C.O.T.U.S.

Well regulated means well supplied and trained. Obviously, you've never heard of the term "regulations" when used in reference to the daily ration of beans, coffee and salted pork that each soldier/ volunteer was to be allotted per day in accordance with army "regulations". When the "UNORGANIZED" militia is called into service, the federal government is required by "REGULATION" to feed, supply ammo, (It was required to bring their own gun) clothe and train them. Hence the term, "well regulated".

Wowed- Great job!!

Someone wanted to know how to keep your gun safe and still be able to get to it when needed, never let it off your side. put it under your pillow at night[pointed at the wall not your spouse] and in your pocket as soon as you get dressed. your gun should never be more than 18 inches from your hand. The majority of gun battles take place at distances of 7-12 feet. From first draw to last shot rarely takes more than 15-20 seconds. can anyone get to a locked gunsafe, retrive a weapon, load it and safely as posible engage the perp within that time frame? I think not. Also during a home invasion the offenders aint going to say lets be fair you get yours and then we will start.

God has nothing to do with it.

That's delusional thinking.

If god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent why did god make this happen? It is obvious nobody understands why god made this kid do what he did but maybe someday god will reveal the reasoning behind this act.

I dare say there aren't too many of us that will be around for god's explanation. And it will be so far in the past nobody will remember it anyway.

banning guns isn't the answer! teaching your kids about gun safety and the consequences of what happens when a gun is used irresponsibly is the problem! If parents would pay more attention to their kids and what is going on in their lives then maybe this kind of violence can be stopped. High school years are hard, very hard. But all the outlets that kids have these days like texting, facebook, and twitter it makes it that much easier for bullying. I think that instead of banning guns maybe we should ban the social media for kids until they are mature enough to handle them. Its bad enough to have to go to school and be bullied in front of your peers but when its made "public" on the Internet for everyone to see it makes it that much harder to deal with. Shooting and killing people is not the answer! Parents need to wake up and notice that we are in a different day and age and its not anything like when we were in school. Maybe the victims were bullying the shooter but it is NO reason to take their lives!!! Thoughts and prayers for the families, friends, and faculty of Chardon H.S..

Scooter.

Nobody "Took God out of schools." Explain to me how you take god out of things?

Isn't your god supposed to be everwhere and omnipotent?

How is it that somebody took him out of a building?

Besides, some of the most religious fanatics are the most dangerous, gun-toting fools.

Give it a rest.

You don't have definitve proof that your god even exists. Stop making false declaritves based on your fantasies.

God doesn't "exist" in schools, so he let innocent kids get shot...Jeeeze.

Stupid as all hell.

Have a nice day.

Everyone is concentrating on one line in the article to the total exclusion of the subsequent line

The motive for the shooting, which took place while students were studying and eating breakfast, remains a mystery. Fellow students told local media the suspect was a quiet loner who may have been bullied.

Some witnesses told local media he appeared to deliberately target a table where a student who had started dating his former girlfriend was seated with friends ...

Too many here are using this horrific occurance to promote their own agendas in response to this tragedy, played out in many dramas, both in fiction and in real life.

This isnt about good vs bad parenting,

this isnt about gun control or deregulation thereof,

this isnt about religion in schools (and home/church are the proper places where religious mores, doctrines, traditions and values are to be taught and examples thereof demonstrated - if it isnt, then you wont see the benefits thereof anywhere, not just in schools),

this isnt about sociology and the consequences of differing political systems upon our society and its effects upon our children,

or anything else other than a teenager who was a loner for any complex combination of reasons which may have included bullying as a child, who may have had learning disabilities/emotional issues which required him to attend a special school who was where he didnt belong (a high school he didnt attend) doing dishonorablly what many men throughout mankind's history have done while still an immature, hormonal teenager - he took out who he felt robbed him of his "woman".

Plays have been written based upon this scenario throughout our history as a "civilized" (and I use that term loosely) society, poems about it glorified in the "best of societal circles", laws governing the procedures for it in many societies (deuling come to mind anyone? - the required glove slap and the number of paces all requiring witnesses and "seconds" and the labelling of "coward" to those who walked away), laws allowing a man the legal right to shoot his wife and her lover if he caught them "in the act" (british laws which influenced american laws - and britain just unturning those laws in the middle of the 20th century), fathers chasing away daughters potential boyfriends with his gun (usually a rifle in most stories passed on through familt/community "lore") firing with his community and law enforcement cheering him on and pastors/priests/ministers performing "shotgun" weddings so families could "keep face" when they found out their daughter had been "knocked up".

We have a lonely teenage boy who grew up in the midst of violence as a child who worked hard to "be good" who dared trust someone (possibly his first love) enough during an intensely hormonal time in his life (adolecence) not able to emotionally handle a break up with his girlfriend and who blamed her new boyfriend for his loss and then proceeded to do what too many mature, affluent, socially advantaged and morally upright men have done through the ages .... he killed his competion who stole his "sweetheart's" heart from him.

It is not right ... never has been even when "civilized" societies glorifies it, wrote novels and poems about it, and enacted laws protecting men's right to do such .... it just is.

Perhaps he read some of those novels and only intended to shoot her new boyfriend and things got out of control once he began. The 5 kids shot were found "in 3 different locations" within the school according to the article.

What ever the reasoning he used to commit this tragesy, he was a boy who was emotionally unable to handle the "adult" world he was morphing into and too immature to understand the loss that was overwhelming him and his "panic mode" was initiated after he accomplished what he set out to do - shoot the "man" who stole his "woman".

Bullying has always been a problem in EVERY society ... it will NOT go away and it is NOT harmless.

Guns are not the problem ... glorifying them and the men who abuse them is.

Every "civilized" (again, I use that term loosely) society has had these problems where boys attempt to become "macho" men one way or another, be it bullying other boys, fighting (in any manner, including use of weapons such as guns, swords, spears, rocks, etc), demeaning/abusing/subjucating women, terrorizing children, and the list goes on. Evedry society has those who cant "handle it" and snap.

Whatever reason behind this kid's reckless actions ... it is ultimately his responsibility to answer for his action.

You want guns, fine. Dont glorify their usage and recognize them as a necessary evil needed to protect oneself from mankind's more basic urges.

You want to blame parents .... go for it whether it is warranted or not.

You want to blame differing types of society/government - go for it even though every society throughout man's history must, had to deal with these problems (although many did NOT see it as a problem, but a man's rite of passage).

IN the USA, this manchild took an action and must answer for it through our judicial system. He took action and must be held responsible for those actions according to our laws set by our government.

Let us NOT create more victims by "bullying" eachother over issues no one will agree upon.

Our laws, exacted by our government according to the society we are members within have differing parameters for differing degrees of a crime and the mental stability/maturity of the offender will be examined as well. All the infighting in the world will NOT affect that ... it will just create more victims.

I was flabberghasted that his 14 yr old sister, while emotionally distraught over her brother's actions,which she also witnessed like all the other kids there, was taken into custody by school officials as if she was his accomplise instead of another student they needed to "protect". Villanizing his grandparents who brought them into their home to provide stability when their parents couldnt isnt helping anyone either.

My only real question is what was he doing in a school he didnt attend???? Why was he there? Even parents of students in that school wouldnt be welcome without going through the principal's office and the administrative processes incorporated in all schools. Waiting for a bus isnt a reason ... most of the world does that outside at the bus stop.

A well thought out and exquisitely written response by Recycled Hope in 9.12.

Thanks, Jim! Not so bad yourself!

I have to agree with that, Recycled Hope. There is no denying. However, we can change parts of it, and we can agree that it has more devastating effects in recent years.

I guess God was too busy trying to get Michelle Bachmann the Republican nomination.

Oops!

I guess God was too busy trying to get Newt Gingrich the republican nomination.

Double oops!

I guess God was busy trying to get Rick Santorum....

Yep.. "banning" guns will definitely help. Prisons are filled with all those people who respect and obey the law right?

It's not firearms.. it's PEOPLE with a complete lack of self respect or respect for others in addition to respect for the law.

Please explain???? We had gun racks in our pickup trucks, took them to shop class, cleaned them and repaired them. Hell, even the teachers and principal did the same.

We also had bullies. Kids were picked on and mistreated. I was on both ends of the stick.The difference was when there were altercations you settled in on the playground or in the gym w/ boxing gloves. Once matters were settled, even if you got your butt kicked, the "bullies " didn't mess with you because more often than not you got your licks in.

You can't do that now w/o prosecution and/or a lawsuit. If kids are not allowed to confront their fears, the result is desperate actions. People have breaking points. It's human nature. But trail lawyers and administrators prevail to suppress it.

If we banned all firearms then America would be at a much greater risk for a security threat, think about it.

What should happen, though, is that individuals and parents/grandparents that do own firearms legally need to have their firearms well hidden/locked away in a secure area, and to those individuals who have a history of violent behavior with or without a weapon should not be allowed to own firearms. Now maybe a special condition could exist that those who have had a history of violence could prove themselves worthy of having the priviledged luxury of owning 1 firearm by going through a rigid panel of some form, but if they screw up and act out violently again - without or without the firearm - they will permenantly have the priviledge revoked for good. Sound like a good idea?

I suppose you believe that the crime of murder didn't exist before the invention of firearms.

Big Al, you forgot the (sarc) tag.

Big AL, you're an idiot. What an ignorant statement. A gun is an object; it doesn't fire itself. Blaming a gun for killing someone is like blaming the pencil for a misspelled word.

People have all of these theories of why this happened. It's simple: the shooter wanted to shoot somebody, for whatever reason, so he did. It's cut and dry. No more outcries of "Oh but he was bullied, if he wasn't bullied, he wouldn't have done that." Well, at this point saying that is just speculation. I'm not downplaying bullying by any means. Kids are the cruelest people around, because they don't see what they are doing. They aren't level-headed enough to realize that anyone else has feelings. Self-centered narcissits.

Regardless of nature (violent family, drugged parents, etc) versus nurture (bullies, lack of friends) this guy made his own opportunity. He pulled the trigger and ran. There is no remorse.

Stop this banter of the blame game. The shooter is at fault. Period. No one pulled the trigger for him.

We don't need to ban guns. We need to arm everyone.

It isn't a gun control issue. Good and honest people don't kill other people on purpose using any means. It's a mental health issue.

I was bullied relentlessly as a high-school kid. And they were brutal and physically violent to me daily. I never for a second thought that bringing a gun in and shooting those scumbags would solve any of my problems.

The Guns don't kill people. The Bullets do.

You can ban guns until you're blue in the face. Drugs are illegal and therefore banned, yet they are to be found on every street corner. Criminals and people that are intent on doing you harm will find a way to get a gun. Asking for a gun ban is an idiotic idea.

I'm pretty sure Al was being sarcastic. If not...yeesh.

As I have said many times on other articles... " Laws do not matter to the Lawless! "

And how about more people try thinking like this!.

" To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding. "

I have owned guns all my life, as have my family and many friends I know... Not ONCE have I ever had to draw my gun on someone, nor has my gun ever been pointed at anyone let alone even pulled out to scare someone. My guns stay in my locked Gun Case, ONLY in the moment I should need to use it to defend myself, my family and my home against some individual who thinks he is going to do harm or come into my home and take what is mine will I then pull my gun and use it. You can blame the NRA like a coward, you can blame all gun owners for shootings happening, the facts are, you read news articles about someone else being shot and you get paranoid, the news VERY RARELY shows you news stories of guns saving someones life.. I mean why would they ever show you such things like that? Thats not good news, Bad news is great news too these people. Coward is all you are.

"There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys."

"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security."

" If you are unwilling to defend even your own lives, then you are like mice trying to 'negotiate' with owls. You regard their ways as 'wrong', they regard you as dinner. "

Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home from work early do.

(Larry the Cable Guy)

LOL Tina. Its true, though.

If they were smart, they would teach them to call home first ;}

Wow good ole big al, just wow. Another idiot trying to use a forum to get up on his soapbox to the cry rally for the ban of weapons. I got a good idea if you don't want them, don't buy them. As for me I'll always have my weapons and yes I do enjoy them a lot!!!

If you don't like the Constitution of our country, I believe there are all kinds of countries that don't allow their citizens to own weapons.

..."I suppose you believe that the crime of murder didn't exist before the invention of firearms"....

I suppose YOU believe the act of defending yourself didn't exist before the invention of firearms.

Have a nice day.

All we need to do is ban all firearms, then the country will be much safer for sure.

Lets hear your plan on just how anyone could accomplishing this myth.

Yeah, right...what fantasy land do you come from?

If guns were banned, this never would have happened.

By law abiding citizens. But there is a reason people are called criminals.

Hi Tina, not all fantasies are bad. Banning private citizens from possessing handguns is not going to happen soon, but it makes sense. It is the #1 murder weapon in the US, by far, and year after year. It's just too easy to kill with a hand gun. I think the country would be safer if there were a lot fewer hand guns. You can still have your rifles and shotguns, though.

davey-

Banning something does not make it go away.

Remember Prohibition?

Tina: Good point! It's already illegal to drink and drive...it's already illegal to steal...it's already illegal to murder...it's already illegal to use drugs. Yet, they all happen every day!

People who use guns in this manner just don't care whether it's legal or not!

My prayers and condolences are with the families who lost loved ones.

All I have to say is that GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. I been around guns my whole life and was taught not to touch guns with out permisson and when we did go out to shhot the gun it never pointed at someone and just went off GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE so for all the gun haters get a clue already and stop saying GUN CONTROL

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!

Banning something does not make it go away.

I know. But banning something does reduce the supply. There was less alcohol consumed during the Prohibition. if there were fewer handguns, there would be less hand gun violence. Yes, some of that violence would be committed with other weapons, but you would also see a reduction in overall violence because hand guns are the best possible weapon that is easily available today. For example, if this troubled young man in Ohio had not had access to a handgun, there would not today be 2 dead and 3 wounded. This troubled young man could not have committed this level of violence with a baseball bat.

My prayers and condolences are with the families who lost loved ones.

You advocate that guns should be available and then you give your prayers and condolences to the families killed with them. Are you making some kind of cruel joke?

GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE

Oh please, enough of the mindless cliches. No one is saynig that a gun woke up one morning, pointed itself at some people, and pulled its own trigger. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Wish teenagers would learnn to cope and stop being so overly dramatic. Highschool is only 4 years. LIfe gets better from there. You leave your bullies and the people who thought little of you behind. Be the Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg's of the world and get even with them that way. Laughing all the way to the bank. Ban them from ever using your social network or computer software if you want but dont take a gun to school and end their life. Why not? Because who is the bully now? Them or you?? RIP to the two students who lost their lives in the Ohio school shooting .....

Best point on here so far. People who kill will always find a weapon to use. I think the teachers looking the other way- if they see excessive teasing or bullying is a real problem that needs addressing. Some kids who have abusive parents{could be suffering from emotional abuse} at home are probably more prone to act this way. The kid that shot the others may also have been going through emotional abuse at home which would make him like a firecracker.

...."But there is a reason people are called criminals"....

I suppose you think there were no criminals before guns were invented.

I suppose you think criminals invented guns or were just born with them attatched to their hips.

I suppose you think....Nah, I take that back.

Have a nice day.

davey-

Yes, there probably was less alcohol consumed during Prohibition but mostly Prohibition just caused it to go underground and spurred a lot of violence by the mob.

You can say the same thing about guns or drugs.

Davey- how exactly would you implement a handgun ban? Would you post a bulletin saying the ownership of handguns is now illegal, please turn in all handguns to your local police? Because I am sure the criminal element would obey this. You assume that had this teen not had access to a handgun this wouldn't have happened. But how do you know he wouldn't have done the same thing with a rifle or shotgun?

The truth is, you don't know this wouldn't have still happened, just like you don't know that criminals wouldn't simply switch to modified rifles or shotguns.

The truth is, there are bad people in this world who don't give a hoot about the laws and will find a way to commit their crimes, regardless of the laws passed.

As for your comment surrounding prohibition; yes the law abiding citizens stopped drinking alcohol, however, the criminal element, not so much.

Booze and drugs are easily produced, guns not so easy. Don't be so hung up on what the criminals will do. Don't worry so much that a ban will not be 100% effective. We will all be safer when there are fewer hand guns. Do you really think that a hand gun will protect you? Do you know how many justifiable homicides there are by private citizens in the US each year? The bad guy who has a hand gun has the advantage, the element of surprise. Yes, if there were fewer hand guns, some people would find another way to commit murder, but they would be deprived (I hope) of getting the very best weapon for killing, a hand gun.

As to how a hand gun ban would be implemented, well, I guess the first step would be to stop selling them in stores. You'd also want to invite folks to turn theirs in. I'm sure some would. After that, maybe a policy where some people got to keep theirs for a while, who have had one for a while, and at the very least when they die, their hand gun is surrendered. They could be confiscated if someone was convicted of a crime. There are lots of ways to go about reducing the number of hand guns. I know that there are some good guys and bad guys who will not want to surrender their hand guns. But that's OK, sooner or later we'll get them all, even if it takes years or decades.

As to how a hand gun ban would be implemented,

Over a lot of dead bodies i am sure, This is America.

Oh, don't be such a drama queen. We're just doing a little brainstorming.

We're just doing a little brainstorming.

Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch , I agree with the little part.

Hey Ron, I'm sorry that I belittled your contribution to this discussion. I have unbunched my panties. Thank you.

Let's start over. You say that there will be a lot of dead bodies if there is an attempt to ban hand guns. And to support your claim, you observed that this is America.

Can you elaborate? What is there about America that predicts dead bodies if there is an attempt to ban hand guns? Did I say anything about confronting people and forcing them to surrender their hand guns, putting them in a situation where they had no choice but to kill?

Do Americans ever do anything that results in dead bodies, aside from using hand guns to kill?

A handgun ban would need to be tied to some sort of handgun removal for the ones that are in circulation now or it would not be effective at all. The ban would just be the beginning.

The this is America part is to say that we are not English subjects most citizens of the U.S.A. will not willingly give up their handguns to any government without a fight.

That is my opinion.

The goal of a hand gun ban would be to reduce the number of hand guns. A big step in that direction would be to stop selling them to private citizens. Some citizens will turn in their guns. Some guns will be confiscated, for example during an arrest for some crime or another. Guns break or otherwise stop functioning for various reasons, I'm sure, so we would lose some through attrition.

I think a hand gun ban could be very successful.

I think you are wrong.

That is just my opinion.

I do not think you will ever see a handgun ban and even if you did,the flow of handguns into this country would speed up just as it has with drugs,

also my personal opinion.

If a handgun ban ever got serious consideration you would see the biggest buying spree of handguns on record.

My opinion but probably fact.

I never said that I thought that a hand gun ban was likely. Gun ownership has way too much support. But I support a hand gun ban on private citizens.

If there was a hand gun ban, some guns probably would come into the country illegally. But the overall number of handguns would be reduced. If a hand gun ban was considered, no doubt a bunch of people would go out and spend all their money on hand guns. Some people are like that.

I never said that I thought that a hand gun ban was likely

I never said you did

I support a hand gun ban on private citizens.

I do not.

If there was a hand gun ban, some guns probably would come into the country illegally.

I agree.

But the overall number of handguns would be reduced.

Undocumented and unprovable opinion.

Most people buy their hand guns today legally, yes? They buy them because they are allowd to buy them. When the stores no longer sell hand guns, when buying and possessing a hand gun is illegal, some subset of the group that currently buy their hand guns legally will obey the law. So, fewer people will have hand guns.

It's just like marijuana. Pot is against the law. So, I don't smoke it. But if pot was legal, I might buy some, once in a while, and have a puff. The laws against marijuana reduce the use of that drug.

some subset of the group that currently buy their hand guns legally will obey the law. So, fewer people will have hand guns

In your opinion

There will be far more illegal guns sold then there are now, so more guns

In my opinion.

The point is moot anyway as there is not anyone in America that has the power to ban handguns.

Again, my opinion.

Yes, there will be more illegal hand guns, but this will be small compared to the number of legal hand guns that will no longer be sold. This is certain.

Of course we could ban hand guns. This is America.

I'm pretty sure that if we were writing a constitution today, that there would be no such vaguely worded amendment that let just about anyone get a hand gun. :-)

Yes, there will be more illegal hand guns, but this will be small compared to the number of legal hand guns that will no longer be sold. This is certain.

No, that is your opinion again.

We will just never agree on this issue but i do respect your opinion.

You think that the same number of hand guns will be sold illegally that are currently sold legally?

I think everyone that wants a handgun will have a handgun.

If you ever get a handgun ban (doubtful) we will settle this argument.

Yes, a hand gun ban is not imminent.

No, everyone who wants a hand gun will not have a hand gun, just like I would like to smoke some pot tonight, but I won't because I am not willing to risk arrest by going to the black market.

Some people will want a hand gun so badly that they will go to the black market. Some will want a hand gun and decide (wisely) that it is not worth risking their reputation, should they be arrested.

If you have a good job and do not want to risk losing it because your name ended up in the police blotter, if you see yourself as a respectable member of the community, if you have too much to lose by being arrested, you will not seek to obtain a hand gun.

The purpose of a ban is to both punish behavior and deter it. If stealing were legal, wouldn't more people do it?

Yes, a hand gun ban is not imminent.

If it ever is, my point will prove itself.

Have a great day.

If stealing were legal, wouldn't more people do it?

No, it would still be monopolized by the government.

If it ever is, my point will prove itself.

I don't even know why you say that. Can you point me to an example where something was banned and usage remained the same?

Nobody really knows exactly how much alcohol consumption increased or decreased
during Prohibition. The reason was simple enough -- people like Al Capone didn't
pay taxes on their product and thereby report their production to the
government. Licensed saloons became illegal speakeasies, and many common
citizens took advantage of the high sales price of illegal booze by secretly
manufacturing booze in their own bathtubs. That's one of the major problems
with all drug prohibitions -- they greatly reduce the ability to make accurate
judgments about the problem. There is no good way to count the number of illegal
dealers, or the people who are secretly making gin in their own bathroom.
Therefore, to make such a judgment, we have to rely on a number of indirect
indicators.

By the greatest majority of indicators, the biggest drops in alcohol
consumption and alcohol problems actually came before national prohibition went
into effect. Those drops continued for about the first two years of Prohibition
and then alcohol consumption began to rise. By 1926, most of the problems were
worse than they had been before Prohibition went into effect and there were a
number of new problems

The law could not quell the continuing demand for alcoholic products. Thus,
where legal enterprises could no longer supply the demand, an illicit traffic
developed, from the point of manufacture to consumption. The institution of the
speakeasy replaced the institution of the saloon. Estimates of the number of
speakeasies throughout the United States ranged from 200,000 to 500,000 (Lee,
1963: 68).

I am done on this one with you unless you actually prove a point.

Again,Have a nice day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_during_and_after_prohibition

can you give your source?

It was stated in an article that this boy's father has a history of domestic abuse. This would certainly tend to make a child very angry. Can't show the anger at home because dear old Dad might go into a rage and become violent. This is not an excuse for this boy, but putting a tight rein on anger is extremely unhealthy. A great number of sociopaths and psychopaths come from homes where extreme domestic abuse and sexual abuse is the norm. Unfortunately, for this kid, I believe it was just a matter of time. All this situation needed was the right trigger to set to set him off.

It wasn't about the gun, it was about really hurting those peers he was angriest at because he couldn't (or wouldn't) do a thing about his father. Rather than get himself help, he freely chose to no longer control his anger. He intentionally set out to do extreme violence against another human being he was too afraid to confront in a healthier way.

Not only do we need discipline, but we need to teach our children the right techniques for dealing with negative emtoins such as anger, envy, jealousy, and hatred. Ignoring this issue (or our children) will only lead to more shootings, either in schools or other very public places.

Also, as a parent myself, we must recognize that our children ARE NOT perfect. They are not "just the sweetest" thing on earth. We all have our faults. It is time for us to look upon and accept the true faces of our children. They have those attributes you really love and those attributes that make you wonder why you ever wanted to be a parent.

It is past time for the cold, hard truth. We are just as responsible for this kids actions. If a parent is unwilling or unable to care for their child(ren), then it is up to the village and we have all fallen down on the job. I am sure there were friends and neighbors of this family that were well aware of the father's problem. We have got to start paying more attention to what is happening around us and become more proactive.

The murderer's parents should be prosecuted right along with him.

It says his Grandfather and Aunts had custody of him (one or all three, it wasn't clear) so I assume he was living with them in a stable home at the time of the shooting.

Same stable environment that his dad came from?

@ Bassai - That's why theft is illegal now. The government doesn't want the competition.

The kid didn't even go to that school. He went to an alternative school, which means he had issues and or problems.

Actually it was a vocational school. The phrase "alternative school" is used incorrectly by the media.

Actually "Pragmatic" It is an alternate school for "AT Risk" students. It has a lower sstudent to teacher rario and special guidaance and counseling. Two of the students who were shot attendeded a "Vocational" high school where the received job training.

Too much is being made of the commetn by one stucent that he was possibly "bullied". The more likely scenario is the one that has not been confirmed, that one of the victims had started dating a girl he either dated or really liked.

I believe is gun owner ship and was taught from a VERY young age the responsibility of owning one. So of course I totally disagree with you ignorant commit.

Consider more time forwarding your education and less with limitless gun possession.

It's sad no matter where it happens.

Just because it happened in a "high-class" area doesn't make it a tragedy--it would be a tragedy wherever it happened.

Can I just say that violence still isn't a huge issue. One horrible action by one child does NOT mean the whole community is suddenly a bad place to live.

I so agree. We have spoiled our kids beyond recognition. Kids today feel "entitled." They don't understand the consequences to their actions because most of the time they're are none. Parents want to be "friends" with their children. We cannot be on our childrens level. It's time to take our roles back as parents. Our kids need someone they can count on, not a "buddy."

It is high time we get off our butts and start parenting these kids. Lets avoid even one more tragedy like this one.

Funding mental health services is the best prevention money can buy.

I feel that — — — does not want me, that — — — is not — — — and that he does not really exist"

you want to change violence in society change the book your reading - just that simple

amen

ah-men

ay-men

amun - ra

Banning guns is the answer for the protection of a free society.

Ummmmm, no. I think parents should resume their role of "parenting". Such a concept. Sorry.

What do you say to the parents who are doing their role of parenting dealing with parents / kids that are not?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

there are programs already for that.

headhunter22

Programs that don't work. Obviously - you have no knowledge of what is happening in Public Schools these days. Principals/Teachers cannot deal with bullies - in fact - any attempt to do so often results in the Principal/Teacher getting bullied by the bully involved (often the parents of the bully join in). And the student the Teacher tried to protect just gets it worse.

School Boards/Superintendents/Principals/Teachers are NOT in charge of Public Schools - the bullies and their parents are the ones in charge.

It is far past time for that to change. A good start - get rid of NCLB and Special Education.