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Subscribe to RSSLOS ANGELES -- The mother of a fourth-grade special needs student has filed a claim for damages after her son was made to spend quiet time in a classroom cabinet and, later, in a cardboard box brought in for that purpose.
Whether it was improper for a teacher to have a special needs student spend quiet time in a classroom cardboard box has not been determined by the Lake Elsinore Unified School District.
Read NBCLosAngeles.com's report on boy put in box
There are circumstances when such a technique may be permissible, according to a district spokesman.
"A special needs child put in a box is just — I cannot comprehend that," said Kim Rollins, whose son is diagnosed with Asperger's, a syndrome on the mild end of the autistic spectrum.
Sage Rollins, 10, attends class with mainstream students at Ronald Reagan Elementary School in the southwest Riverside County community of Wildomar.
Compartmentalizing a student in the classroom may be an appropriate way to help a child susceptible to sensory overload, said Mark Dennis, spokesman for the Elsinore school district.
"It's called a sensory diet, and there are many varieties of adaptations to create a calm environment. A box can be used. A desk with a blanket. A tent. These can all be used inside a classroom," Dennis said, adding that at least one teacher supply catalogue carries a product called the B-Calm Hideaway, a small box-like play area.
Sage's mother said she first became aware of the box when her son spoke up about taking some scissors to school to cut a hole in it.
Rollins said she learned from her son that his teacher had designated the classroom closet for his quiet time before bringing the box to the classroom. Rollins said her son told her sometimes he went to the box on his own but that twice she ordered him there.
"I would never justify that," said psychologist Ron Leaf, PhD, a founding director of the Autism Project, which provides consulting services to school districts.
Even though some children with Asperger's crave quiet time, Leaf said there are better solutions than relegating them to a box and exposing them to ridicule from fellow students.
An investigation by the Riverside Sheriff's Department found no evidence of a crime. The teacher remains on paid leave pending the outcome of the district's investigation.
After learning of the box, Rollins said she removed her son from Reagan Elementary for a few days. But he has since returned to class, with a new teacher.
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So it's a correct treatment option. Did the school notify the parent that this was the option they'd use since they're so damn low budget? And did the parent even bother to read through the treatment plans? Little more info would be nice.
I have a son that is on the low end of the Autism spectrum, but if he acts up I would not want anyone to put my son in a box, or a small room. There are other ways for doing something like that. This teacher had no idea what she was doing or how to handle a child with Autism. My son has three different forms of therapy a week, and has someone with him almost all the time. If he acts up, they take him to a large room in the office, and let him do his work by himself with help of course, but they don't shut him up in a small dark room, or a box.
I've worked with individuals who happen to have disabilities for 25 years. My first thought was this was a restraint and not acceptable. I worked only with adults and this would not be acceptable. Don't imagine this is much different when it's done to a child.
alur-you obviously know nothing about disabilities-the child is NOT a brat. Get yourself educated on disabilities before you comment because you look the fool when you don't.
LOU-post#4-Do you comprehend what you read?? The child has a disability and is in a SPECIAL EDUCATON class that is designed for this type of student. Get educated and get facts before commenting on something you know nothing about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless the entire team of parents, educators, and therapists/Dr.s agreed to a treatment plan utilizing a cabinet or box IT'S WRONG!!!!
By Law the school has to have an IEP for each student with needs. The IEP must be approved by parents/ Custodial care taker and the teachers. Once a year a meeting is held with the entire staff that will be caring for the child, the Principal, and the parents in order to make changes to the IEP. They are not allowed to step out of the plans outlined with in the IEP without permission from the parent or giving the parent notification. I also have a son who has Autism, and does need quit time sometimes, because he becomes over stimulate. There are rooms designed for special needs kids that have sensory tools in them, such as buckets of beans to run hands in or round tubes that they can crawl into and it makes them feel hugged or alone so that they can regroup and go back into the class room. My son had a bad first year and we needed to try many different things to calm him so that he could learn with out interfering with the other children. I would NEVER let someone put my child in a closet or a box. I don't care if the school approves it or not its wrong and it could do more harm than good. I would be demanding that teacher get fired and never teach again or I would sue to make sure it happened.
My seven year old has PDD-NOS and the school has him on an IEP. There wasn't one place is his plan that stated his teacher would put him in the hallway alone when he got upset. I didn't find out his teacher was doing that until the day she did that and he got caught leaving through the front door of the school. I was upset about this because I didn't know that was how they treated him. If I had then I could of told them what a bad idea it was for my child. What works for some, doesn't always work for others. I understand how this mom feels.
Are you all really envisioning a child in a cardboard "shipping box"? or was it a cardboard room divider( like a voting booth?) How about we hear the "whole" story before we get hyper emotional? The media loves to get people all worked up without reporting the real/whole story.
I think I'm going to sue my old school for making me stand in the corner or writing on the blackboard 100 times "I will not talk in class."
Jesus what is wrong with folks nowadays!!! the kid was misbehaving he was punished ...get over it!!! I can remember getting swats at school, we were sent to stand in the coat closet or the corner and yes we even had dunce hats!!!!! We were spanked at home for bad behavior we were grounded........ and ya know what we turned out pretty darn good, it's only after we got into this don't spank yer kids crap and kill'm with kindness thay we started to have school killings and such, nobody was shoootin others at school!! hell we took guns to school all the time, I gave a speech on the proper procedure of gun cleaning, took the gun to school on the bus...and we have this obsession to label everything and every one... it just amazes me that every behavior problem has to belinked to autism and that is supposed to explainevery thing and excuse everything...give the kid a time out and move on for piss sakes.........let the name calling and abuse begin!!!!!!!
Tony,,,first and only comment that makes any sence,,
So what! the kid was disciplined, and if he was capable of learning he would avoid being sent to the box, unless of course he liked the box or was incorrigible. maybe they should put the mother in a box!
I work in a class room where we often use cardboard boxes as a quiet area. One looked like a castle and the one we have right now is a dinosaur den. The kids can go in there and there is pillows to rest. Sometimes we send kids over there in stressful situations during class such as if someone was hit and needs an ice pack. This gives us time to comfort the hurt child while keeping the other child at a safe distance from the rest of the students till we can talk to them and find out what their side of the story is. A lot of the time kids go there when they have a hard time with things like sitting in circle this keeps them out of sight out of mind for the other children and we can better help the kids that are participating learn. The child who went to the rest area is allowed to rejoin the class whenever they feel they can control their body.
I'm an adult with Asperger's Syndrome, a fact I don't tend to share out in the "real world" because the vast majority of people simply don't comprehend it; even I dare say a majority of those who believe they do understand. I also have shall we say a fair bit of experience handling children. Believe it or not, I was a nanny for about six years. Let it be known, I wasn't wishy-washy, there was discipline. If the child is acting up, with or without Asperger's, a punishment is only fair. I for one found timeouts, done right, are actually fairly effective. When attempting timeouts, many parents, caregivers, etc. tend to delay them and with that waiting destroy their effectiveness. A good timeout is immediate, it is done standing and facing something like a wall or tree. I've given them in toy stores, parks, restaurants and hallways in malls. They are best followed with an explanation for the timeout and a description of expected future behavior. They're supposed to be inconvenient. Let me emphasis that, they're supposed to be inconvenient! But they don't need to be long. I find a good rule of thumb is a minute per year of age. I kid you not, it doesn't need to be longer. A few of these and I had years of compliance. I read awhile back that making punishments more immediate is actually effective for curbing criminal behavior as well with shorter, but quicker, jail sentences for petty crime. But a box? I think not. The child is a human being, not an animal. Worst yet is to reserve this terrible treatment for this boy alone, to set him a part and as the article says, expose him to ridicule. There is no defense for that. The teacher obviously lacks the empathy I would consider a prerequisite to the profession, as do too many commentators here.
Then again, I must admit, I don't know the size of the box in this case. With the mention of the previous method (a closet), I'm imagining something particularly small with my comments above. However, if the box were particularly large (for example: Yiya33's castle), I doubt the mother would be making a fuss, I doubt the school would have put the teacher on leave and I doubt we would have ever heard about it. It's probably fair to assume that this was a fairly small box. If anyone wants to dispute this with a photo, I would appreciate it.
This is disturbing on a few levels. First, it is very important that a student who has any sort of special needs be treated fairly. However, it is also important that a student who is disruptive be given an outlet that protects the OTHER students in a classroom. We don't know what behavior preceded the teacher telling him to got to this secluded area. A student who is having a meltdown can be very frightening to other students in the class; it can also make it impossible for other students to learn while this is happening. To assume the student was subjected to ridicule by other students for this is absurd.
So this teacher who has no degree in psychology is allowed to medically treat a child? Sounds like Obama care run rampant.
I was born in the wrong generation. In my generation when you acted up, you got pulled aside by the Teacher and either put in the hall, or had to sit at a desk right next to hers. If you act up nowadays, you get cuddles and cookies. I just punted the class pet hamster like a soccer ball, I want cuddles and cookies, darnit.
Too many kids are titled special needs anymore. I believe too many parents don't parent their kids. The only kids really suffering are the one's who have these special needs kids in their class disrupting them.
I agree with Tony and Jan!
We used to get the ruler on the open palm. It hurt, that was the point. Then we graduated to the wooden paddle and grab your ankles method. I got my share, a few kids got it when they shouldn't have but the kids would sympathize on the playground. You darn sure didn't tell your parents you got in trouble at school, and hoped they didn't find out. Of course we didn't have any retards at my school. I also don't see anything but a bunch of "could have done something different" comments. Have a few nice big rooms empty just waiting for those kids that need it, and an extra teacher on hand to monitor them. Never going to happen dreamers. So I guess the schools just leave that up to the teacher to deal with, then they can fire them when they don't have a good solution to satisfy the parents which is impossible. You can't please everyone. No wonder nobody wants that job. Your kids know your going to side with them and not the teacher, your just enabling them to make bad decisions later when it's going to cost them big time. We called you losers in school, your still losers. Take your licks stand up shake it off and keep moving, thats real life.
Glad to oblige, Tony. You are a loudmouthed, uninformed idiot.
"Every behaviour problem" is not "linked to autism" or any other mental health issue. A mental health diagnosis is not made based on misbehavior alone, but a series of symptoms over an extended period of time that affects all aspects of the individual's life. Thus a kid who acts out at school but has no problems at home, or vice versa, would not be diagnosed as mentally ill. Mental illness pervades every aspect of a person's life, and it is about more than just behavior.
Many mentally ill children have cognizance issues that affect their ability to understand "normal" discipline procedures. You wouldn't punish a blind child by putting him in front of a swimming pool and letting him fall in to "teach him a lesson". You wouldn't smack around a deaf child because she didn't hear someone behind her and she turned around suddenly and bumped another child who had come up behind her.
Interestingly, you mention all the "discipline" you received, and then comment you "turned out pretty good" Actually, you turned out pretty ignorant and pretty mean. You have no empathy, and chances are if you have children, you abuse them either mentally or physically. I recently heard a man speak who teaches mandatory parenting classes to people arrested for child abuse. He hears that exact line of "reasoning" all the time. Funny. If those folks had turned out all right, they wouldn't be IN court-ordered parenting classes.
Now go get a vasectomy if it isn't already too late.
TheMonkey and other who refer to him as a brat: Did you read the article? This was not a child "acting up" as you refer to it and just needs a whack. This is a special needs child. What that means is: his needs are different than that of his peers and he requires individual attention. I can see that you have limited ability to understand so I'll try and explain it this way. If someone is visually impaired (that means they have trouble seeing) you don't punish them for not being able to read, instead they get glasses. If it is so bad that they can't see, you don't lock them up or beat them for not being able to see, instead they are provided services such as a seeing eye dog or someone to assist them with daily living. So, takie what you just learned, apply it to the child referred to in this article. He has problems that require special help. Part of his problem is emotional (again, think about someone not being able to see - you don't beat them for not reading) so when things happen that affect him he is given a special kind of assistance - he isn't punished for not being able to function in a manner that many of us can. If that were so, you would be beat just for being stupid. Consider yourself lucky that the majority of people aren't like you.
floyd, just a 100 times? You got off easy. :)
Skew.....The article did not state that this was a class where all the students had disabilities.
Back in the 1980-1990s wasn't there a cut back in funding for special education schools for children with disabilities and these children were then placed into the school system to be amoung children who did not have these disabilities? Didn't these disabled children have learning disabilities but also mental, physical, medical issues too? The rationale back then was that this gave these disabled children the opportunity to interact with other children who were not disabled blah blah blah, but in actuality it really was about cutting funding and saving money if I am not mistaken.
So in an attempt to save money some states started closing down these special schools where these children were taught and cared for, given therapies etc by specially trained teachers, therapists and helpers that were set up for their special needs. Now we have schools where there is an increase in the amounts of children per class, not taking into consideration that there are these children with different learning and medical needs and the teacher who is required to teach all these children, no matter the needs of these children.
No wonder during that time there was this increase in the amount of children who were being diagnosed with ADHD etc and other behavioural disorders and being medicated etc.
We keep putting teachers in these difficult situations yet we do not want to give them the tools and assistance to do their jobs. Perhaps that teacher would have had to take the money out of her own pocket to buy a quiet tent etc and there probably was no other safe area for her to place this child and keep an eye on the child too, plus continue to teach etc the other children.
We spend so much moneys on wars yet we do not want to provide for the needs of our own children and people or country.
Before beating up on the teacher perhaps it would be best to wait until a full investigation is done.
Perhaps next time, a teacher have to deal with an overstimulated disabled child, whose care plan directs that quiet time away form the overstimulants -i.e. the other students- be given when the child is overstimulated, the teacher should take the child to the principal's office for the principal to care for, or call the parent to come sit with their child.
Wasn't it back then that the states started cutting back on funding for speech therapy etc and other testing? Wasn't it also back then that insurance companies also started cutting back on or did not cover speech therapy and where parents then had to pay these costs?
A lot of things have changed in this country over the years, but with the proliferation of instant access, media etc now these things are coming to light nationwide instead of being reported only on the local news when it happens now.
Peace.......
Kids today are so damned spoiled. If WE talked out of turn or acted up in class back in the day, they cut off your arm. Any further misbehavior and they assassinated your family.
One in 110 babies in this country is born with some form of Autism in this country every day now. This paradigm isn't working any longer. Cutting back on funding for therapy and testing isn't realistic when the problem is expanding at this rate.
What will we do? We need to stop the problem at its source. If that means grow all our food organically, we may need to do that. Otherwise we will be screwed within 2 generations.
Wow the ignorance from some of the posters in this thread is depressing. To those of you that are uninformed enough to think that this child's behavioral problems are due to insufficient punishment:
The fact that your parents punished you for misbehavior is wholly irrelevant because this is a SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD. He isn't like you. If he was he would not be in a special needs classroom.
No one is saying that special needs children should never be punished. Sometimes they deliberately break the rules and need to be punished just like a typical child. However, in many cases punishment isn't the answer because the misbehavior is a direct result of a disability.
How many of you even have the slightest idea what might cause a child with autism to misbehave? Here's one example: most persons with autism have unusual sensory sensitivities. As one example, ordinary sounds that wouldn't even be loud to most people can actually be extremely painful for someone with autism.
Now, if a typically developing child disrupts the class by crying due to a severe headache would you punish the child or remove him from the room and try to help the headache? IT'S THE SAME SITUATION WHEN AN AUTISTIC CHILD DISRUPTS A CLASS DUE TO A SENSORY SENSITIVITY.
Read that last sentence again. No, really. Read it again.
The child is in PAIN. What, exactly, do you geniuses think you're going to accomplish by punishing the child? Do you think that a few good spankings at home will make it all better and the sound of an electric pencil sharpener suddenly won't be extremely painful any more? Or perhaps you think that punishment will teach the child to sit quietly and pay attention to the teacher when he is in extreme pain?
Persons with autism can also become highly distressed due to not understanding a social situation. If this is the problem, the solution isn't to punish. The right approach is to help the child understand that situation.
BZe1-Back in the 80's the federal government was throwing money at institutions for the disabled. Wanted institutionalized adults with disabilities who lived in industrial type buildings with concrete floors and high ceilings with exposed duct work to be more "home like" a nd more like so-called normal lives. The problem was that the ideal was once to wharehouse these people, keep them out of site and out of mind. They weren't taught simple basics such as tolieting, brushing teeth etc.. Showers, shaving, tolieting feeding were all done in an assembly like manner as the patient to staff ratio didn't allow for anything like a "normaL" life. They pretty much didn't have any personal items or even clothes of their own. Everything was taken to the laundry on campus and when return to the cottages clothes were sorted out by size and put on the people by fit. Bedtime attire was white t-shirts and tidy whities.
This was the "norm". The federal government then threw money at the institutions. Staff went out and purchased furniture, clothing etc..particians were built in the dorms to give more privacy. Curtians installed across the once doorless bathroom stalls etc.. What wasn't taken into account is take these folks had never had "normal" furniture, no idea want it meant to be private, or any clue as how to use everyday items properly. Thousands upon thousands were wasted due to damage from misuse because the folks didn't have a clue how to take care of these things and there wasn't staffing to manage it all even though staff for the most part was increased to 4:1 instead of the 32:1 and the 16;1 staffing that was in place before the feds came in. At any rate the feds and the state had done there part towards "normalizing" life for the disabled and they began to downsize the institutions with the goal being ultimate closure.
In the long run folks were much better off in community homes of only 4 or 5 residents. With a real home, their own bed, clothes, personal items, better staffing, community inclusion and finally training on how to "be" in the community. Unfortunately for the more aged folks this was too little, too late to make a huge difference in their lives. For folks growing up in the late 80's and 90's this was great. People had more training, education etc.. to access the community etc.. The down side was these homes were privatized. Meaning staff wages were cut dramatically. To extent this reduced the quality of people willing to do these jobs because for many they weren't and still aren't living wage jobs.
Human resources have always been the last to be funded and the first to be cut.
I long for the days when Teachers had power and control of the classes. If you didn't behave you got a spanking at school and sometimes sent home to explain to your parents why you got a spanking and maybe get another one from them. Now with this sensitivity stuff, parents have taken away the power and control in the classes and given it to the children. Then they wonder why kids are flunking and being passed on because of a no kids left behind policy. Can't have it both ways. You either want discipline in the classes or children who can't do anything but play video games.
The mother messed up the kid. The school is just trying to straighten him out. Tell the mother to home-school the brat.
You really need education on Asperger's. The mother did not 'mess' up her son. You cannot cause Asperger's, no more than you can 'cause' cancer. I'm not sure you should flaunt your ignorance in a public forum, it could make you look stupid.
Unbelievable that you can make such a comment. My cousin has a son with Asperger and she is a nurse. She can only work in the most gentlest way with him. Not RIDICULE him. There is enough bullying in our school systems and to singal this child out is a dam shame. It is always "blame the parents" Grow up, NOT ALL parents are bad!
I think it is nice that a couple of people tried to enlighten someone with such ignorance. It speaks very well of them. You, alur, not so much.
I guess what bothers me most about this "treatment" is that there seems to have been a teacher parent disconnect. I think teachers, especially those working with special needs children, need to make sure that the parent is involved in all aspects of the child's time in the class room. The mother seems to have found out about this only through her son's comments. Makes you wonder what other forms of "treatments" he was subjected to that he has yet to speak about.
Well, look where the ignorance comes from. On South Park, Cartman shoved hamburgers down his drawers so that he could tell the teacher he had "@ss burgers" and needed special care.
My son is Autistic... Do you think I messed him up? Do you know what I go through in a day? I don't think so. Do you know what it's like to have people look at my son, and think I am a bad mother when it's the Autism that is effecting him? Don't judge people when you don't understand something. I've gone through a lot since my son was 2 and we didn't know what was wrong. Now at 6 he can actually function in a classroom without to much trouble in a day. He's low on the scale, and yes one day he will be able to function on his own, with some help, but he will be a NORMAL HUMAN!!!!
As a parent of an "Aspie" I just want to say you Alur- are an ass. Asperger's Spectrum is a form of Autism, which- incase you did not know- isn't something you catch or are "given" by anything other than genetics. It is also not something the school can "fix".
My son happens to be very healthy, very smart, and we deal with this every single day, and will continue to do so until he is fully functional within societies "normal" parameter.
AlaskaGirl759554-Thank you for standing up for the Aspie's out here. I appreciate all your comments that I've seen. It means more than you know.
As an educator myself, I can attest to the struggles parents and children dealing with aspergers can have. Still, if you expect to demonstrate greater compassion than Alur by referring to these children as "Aspies", then I'm sorry, you may have a child who has Asperger's (you have an "Aspie"?, that sounds like you are bragging about an exotic pet), but you do not have the compassion necessary to change the masses' minds about this major issue in our public schools.
Your son or daugther is a young person who happens to have Aspergers. Labeling them an asperger, or worse, an "aspie", disrespects every other part of them that makes them alike, instead of different, from everyone else.
It amazes me how so many kids now have Autism! What in the world has happened? Just curious!
Carrie - good question.
Carrie, there's a connection between pesticide residue and fertiliser residue in our food supplies. One in 110 babies is born in the US with Autism every day. It's a frightening trend.
We have more kids with Autism because George W Bush signed into law "Denying people the right to sue the pharmacies for defective vaccines'.
While I am no Liberal, this time it really is George's fault.
As for Alur. I has Aspergers, as do several other members of my family. I do not blame my mother. My children have Aspergers, and they certainly don't blame me.
In the case of my family, Austim is inherited.
Btw Alur, your ignorance and bigotry is disgusting. However, it is hardly 'surprising'.
Autistic children learn to cope with their challenges, and to move on.
You 'can' choose to learn the facts about learning disorder, before acting like a ignorant bigot. However, I doubt you will ever choose to do that.
As someone with Aspergers, I can only pity you.
Placed on paid leave, great. How about the teacher being placed in a box while waiting for the investigation, you know, some "quiet time."
How about you take some quiet time. its the new acceptable method of discipline what do you expect nothing. in the old days they would take them into the coat hall and spank the behavior out of them. you have to try something. it seams their is no end to the problem of administering discipline. when I was a child if I got a hack or two at school and my dad found out I would get some more of the same when I got home, the problem is there is no discipline, and they need discipline. you try controlling 25 or 30 undisciplined children. just one child out of control can destroy the chances of the entire class. and our system of education is proof of that. its a joke.
D Buck,
You're right that many things, including discipline, were different a few years ago. And you are probably also correct that corporal punishment was an effective deterrent and punishment for some students.
However, we now have a better understanding of certain illnesses and disabilities. We know, for example, that restraining an emotionally disabled child in a box can be damaging to that child's development. In fact the trauma caused by, what is arguably, criminal restraint can negatively affect the child in later stages of life.
I mean no disrespect D Buck, but just because we feel a fondness for traditions from decades ago, doesn't make those traditions any better or safer.
DBuck, it's been proven that spanking doesn't work. Should we continue to perform the same acts over and over again when we know they are ineffective?
My son is Autistic. When I was trying to figure out what to do to help him, a friend told me in so many words 'if my son did that, I'd beat his @ss.' OK, I thought. I'll try corporal punishment. This was before diagnosis, BTW. For three weeks I tried spanking my son. It did no good, increased his frustration levels and mine and made him more aggressive. Since it didn't help I stopped. I took him to the psychologist and learned he has ADD, ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome.
If I had $1 for every nitwit who told me his problems were my fault I'd be rich today. I'm so glad I had him diagnosed. His problems are not my fault, I'm not a bad parent and I've done everything I can to help him through his life. The psychologist gave me new techniques to help him and they did help him. I didn't have to resort to physical abuse and he's a very bright person who may finish college one day if we can find the right placement.
However, I have met many young men whose parents did beat them and blame them for their ADD and ADHD and other forms of Autism. One lives across the street from us. He's been in and out of the juvenile system. He's not taken a single college course. Once I caught him trying to break into my garage to steal from me. Last Halloween my garage was egged. I can't prove who is the culprit but I have my suspicions. My son has never had so much as a parking ticket.
Whom do you think had the better upbringing? Who will likely do better in life? The one who was spanked and beaten and blamed, or the one who was loved and cared for and helped?
Excellent post, Peridot.
I've often said that there is no form of arrogance worse than thinking that one knows how to parent a perfect stranger's children better than the parents do.
Kids are forced to stay in boxes every day. We just call the boxes "classrooms". It's just a matter of scale. At what point does the box become too small to be acceptable?
Should one unruly child be allowed to disrupt the education of all the others? That's not fair to the others. If parents don't want their disruptive child separated from the others, they should be required to come to school with him until he learns not to act out and disrupt everyone else. Of course, they should have done this before putting their child in school. It's called parenting.
So, Lou, I take it that you have personal parenting experience in dealing with a special needs child based on the second paragraph of your comment. I don't have a special needs child but I have read a couple of books on Autism(Aspberger's being on the mild spectrum end) and it is just not so simple to chalk it up to "it's called parenting." If you read up on it you will see how very challenging it is for parents and the child. Many children with Aspberger's can do quite well in social situations because they have been given the tools to handle small situations. But, sensory overload can be so overwhelming for the child and it can happen very quickly. My point in this article is if the teacher and parent are discussing the child's classroom time and treatments effectively, or is there a disconnect?
You know nothing about everything.
Tell me Lou what do you know about about Autism? If you know anything at all I would love, love to know it. My oldest son is on the low end of the scale, but he still has problems with social situations sometimes. Yes he can be hard to control, but it's not his fault. Read up on Autism, and then you'll understand what parents with children that are Autistic go through in a day. I've seen kids that don't speak, and need someone with them all the time, but I really lucked out, and I am thankful that my son is on the low side. I spent one day with my son in school, and he can do quite well if he's not having a bad day. You have to learn that anyone with Autism will have problems, and if you don't understand it, don't judge until you know what it means to have someone "special" in your life.
LOU-Please cite your practical experience and educaton regarding all forms of autism including aspbergers.
IF you CANT do so with any type of credibility then you need to STFUP!!
This was a special needs child not a unruly child. Pity you have no empathy. Sad to be you I think.
Clear mind or desperate, its a fine line, discipline is still needed to tackle the problem, you want that child to survive in this world then they have to learn how to. or they wont.
When I was a kid, it was always great fun to play in those big cardboard boxes and pretend they were our private clubhouses. Please..tell me how a kid that, needs a time out, who gets to be a cardboard box was injured in anyway. Don't always blame the teachers because kids get a poor education, they have to deal with helicopter parents that cause the wussification of their kids.
Oh Marmee! See you are messed up too, and whoever made those boxes you had to be in should be sued! haha!
Yeah, having to sit in a cardboard box doesn't seem like a big deal - people make such big deals out of nothing any more.
Putting a child in a cardboard box or in a closet, particularly if the door was closed, or the box shut, is not only bizarre, but a form of abuse.
If the child chose a box to play in then it would be one thing. For an authority figure like a teacher to use it as "time out" which is aka punishment then it is an entirely different matter. That this teacher did this without it being in an Individual Education Plan which had been developed by the teacher, the parent and the school counselor (and signed off on by the principal) is wrong on so many levels that I won`t even go into them. This teacher has clearly shown she is inept and should not be around special needs children.
As a parent of 4 ages 30, 21, 19, and 16 I call BS on your comment.Just for starters "wussification" isn't a word and even though you wrote it as sarcamn it was just plain un-called for and unncessary. Also shows your level of intelligence. (Jr. High?) Grow up, get educated and come back and comment when you know what you are talking about!!!!! Yes ,kids play in boxes for fun. Shouldn't be used as punishment and is not an appropriate course of redirection for the student.
Kelcy-I doubt very much that some of these posters have a faintest clue what an IEP or ISP is. Also some need to look up the definition of ABUSE.
@Marmee- You CHOSE to PLAY with those boxes. It was not a form of punishment for you. It was a reward. Wussification of a special needs child? Hello? Anyone home? How arrogant and ignorant are you? Maybe you were too busy paying with your boxes to learn anything. Like compassion and empathy.
@Lou- you are evil. You are the type of person I pray everyday that my wonderful, kind autistic nephew never has to encounter. Another ignorant self absorbed idiot. It is YOU who knows nothing about anything! You both probably think it's ok to torture animals also.
Realize that the goal of teaching any child is to teach the child to think outside the box - not inside a box. I worked in the Special Education Department of a High School and autistic children are different than the norm. The child in this case may have been unruly but not misbehaving - where is the one-on-one intervention the child needs. The teacher in this case obviously could not think outside the box herself - and she should be FIRED!
Parents have becaome wussies more and more!
Yes, marmee. A typically developing child choosing to play in a cardboard box at home is EXACTLY the same as a teacher trying to humiliate an autistic child by forcing him into a box in the middle of a classroom.
The situations are completely identical. I bow in mute reverence for your wisdom in making such a relevant comparison.
There is no one answer for special needs kids.
Many schools and many parents insist on fill integration of special needs into regular classrooms. This is frequently not the best choice for the special needs kids or the rest of the classroom.
On the other hand, having separate classrooms for the special needs is not always a good choice either. Sometimes fairly high functioning special needs kids are lumped in with kids who appear to not even realize that they are alive; requiring diapering and feeding tubes and spending the day in a stroller or bed.
Our school district clearly doesn't comprehend the term "least restrictive environment." They seem to believe the term applies to them rather than the kids.
This boy said that he sometimes went to the box on his own. I don't believe this is as horrendous as the story wants us to believe. I'm sure the box is of adequate size and makes him feel calmer.
Laura, thank you.
The article did not state the boy was put in a dark closet with the door closed or the box shut. He must have found it met a need if he voluntarily used it. In my classroom (early start) we have a cabinet with open space under it. We find children like it under there, even pulling a blanket across the opening so that no one watches them when they have retreated there when they are upset.
I do believe the mother needed to know in advance that the box was used in the classroom and that her child chose to use it.
The mother should absolutely know what is going on with her child and what techniques are used to help the child calm down. I beleive she was upset because it WAS NOT part of her childs IEP.
I can kind of see your point. My son has Autism and I often find him in his closet playing with his toys or sitting in a close basket watching TV. I do think that making a child go into a box or cabinet is not appropriate. Sometimes the school would call me because my son would crawl under the teachers desk and refuse to come out, but it was because they didnt have a place for him to go to refocus.
Should have busted his ass with a belt and that would have been the end of the problem.. but oops I must me showing my age. Now you have to kiss little kiddies ass.. nope that's off limits .. well you tell me.
But that would not have solved anything, a beating on the butt with a belt on a kid with Autism the kid wouldn't have known what he did wrong or learned anything. I have a 2nd cousin whose child is Autistic and she doesn't even quite understand why she can't be in the same school as her sister because not only is she autistic but severely epileptic and the "punishments" used on a kid at a mainstream school is not always have the same results as a child with autism.
Definetly need a "dislike" button for posts like this so you know what people think of you without having to waste time posting back to ridiculous statements like yours. No wonder unknown1 is your user name!!
unknown1, how about every time the child 'misbehaves' because of a medical condition he/she has no control over, YOU get the belt. Well, maybe not, you seem like the sort who would like that kind of perversion.
Its because of people like you that we have so many dead children!!! You can't fix Autism with a belt. You can't beat learning disability's out of children. If you cant say anything intelligent don't say anything at all.
I don't believe in the belt, but a swat on the BUTT with you r HAND works wonders! It did for me and my freinds! We learned quick not to do bad things and we learned to behave! Leave it to the bleeeding hearts to take that form of discipline away! They catergorize spanking with abuse! IT IS NOT ABUSE IF IT IS USED ONCE IN A WHILE AND WITH A HAND ON THE BUTT, ONE SWAT IS ALL IT TAKES , thank you. Kids have so much control over parents and teachers these days, it's unreal.
skrewed world-- Read the article. This was a mainstream classroom.
How big was the box and was it helping? The child did voluntarily go in there on his own more then once, as he stated. I'd need to hear more facts.
How big was the box???? What's the biggest one you've ever seen? Want to spend a few hours in it? Why not? If it's okay for the kids, it's okay for you. And to the guy who said a classroom was a box, too, what's the difference except the size of the box, well, your house is kind of a box, too. Why not exchange it for a little cardboard one? What's the difference, right? You are all disgusting. Where is your humanity? I'll bet you're all CHRISTIANS, too.
Maybe she is right. They maybe should have put him in a cage.
How about we put you in a cage and we see how you like it? If you can't even make an educated comment on the article.........
davethedoubter-I agree, a cage sounds like a good place for you.
alaska girl and lou7777777 exactly right, doubter deserve a cage with a burly cage mate named Bubba.
Around 15 years ago my son was in and out of hospitals for Bi-Polar . He would have extreme anger outburst sometimes physical . The hospitals after long stays were able to manage his meds etc and when he would return to school after few weeks it all got out of control again . After 1 year of controlled living conditions including going to campus school , I decided to challenge the School District to help pay to keep him there till he gradutes and for several months with school attorney helping them they finally came to agreement with me that my son would not be sent home or have police called unless life threating to someone and also he could leave class and go to the office to calm down . Boxes are uncessary and the parent should correct it . Also my son finished school and is living a good life and has never been in trouble since the school days . Rest my case .
Asbergers children are usually very intelligent even more so than the typical age of the kids in a classroom. There is enough bullying in the schools today causing problems and this sort of blockage from sensory overload or using a closet of anysort is inappropriate. There is no reason he could not be exscused at a certain time each day to be in teh nurses office to have sensory time laying down with a blanket covering him. He would be supervised by the nurse and allowed to have his sensorytime. Now while i agree the normal average everyday kids occassionaly needs to get a pop on the behind id like to get my hands on unknown and give them a good old fashion but busting. This child has a very specific need that his family take a great deal of time to provide for. Asbergers will not just go away or get corrected with a butt busting, this child does not act out becuase he wants to it is because he becomes overwhelmed by sight, sound and touch. Making comments like that with out understanding it is down right irresponsible.
Thank you. You actually understand when most people don't. I've read some of the comments on here and I want to scream at these people. My oldest son is Autistic on the low side of the scale, but I know that if he acts out or anything like that, it could be the fact that something is bothering him. When he in school, and acts out they take him out of the class, and take him to the office to a room and stay with him where it's quiet, and he can do his work. He is highly intelligent, and knows how to problem solve where as his classmates have problems. I wish people would take their time, and learn more about Asbergers before opening their mouth, and putting their foot in it.
Exactly!!! My son has break periods from the class room that are set around the most stressing subjects being taught. If he has a bad day, due to whatever reason they allow him to have additional breaks. there is no reason why this school and teacher should not have done this for this child.
Well feisty gets it at least !Clear mind wish you the best for you and your son. Autismn and Asbergers aren't commonly known or understood by the general public and they can be cruel. Not just by kids but obviously as shown by some of these comments, by so-called adults as well.
I probably am more informed on asbergers than the typical person because i am getting a degree in psycology. It is a big discussion and we research everything and discuss all the aspects! Unfortunatly i guess some people just do not have a clue about ETHICS or HUMANITY! I think the general rule should be if you cannot do that to a child with out a disorder then you damn sure shouldn't for a child with a disorder. If you shut your child in a closet for any amount of time at home it is a form of abuse. So why is that not the case here? There are option that were available they were just to damn lazy to do it! I understand kids can really test the nerves of teachers today but if you do not love it and do it for the kids then you should not be doing it. As far as the comments go it makes me ill, this sort of garbage and the comments are why people like me will always have a job in the psychology field!
responding to unknown1 - - -
Your ignorance and insensitivity are appalling - Your suggestion of physical abuse (and, I am sure, verbal abuse also) to deal with Asperger's is a sure guarantee to get a dysfunctional and damaged child - Tell us how your kids turned out . . . .
I pray that they didnt have children or will not have children.
Why does everybody have to be so sensitive to everybody else. I teased and got teased in school, got in alot of fights, my parents beat my azz when I got out of line and guess what. I didn't go around and shoot up my school. If you would parent instead of dropping your kid off at school and not engage in conversation with the school administration, then YOU are to blame, not the teacher or school. Oh yeah, I had a desk in the corner with portable chalkboards to the front and side of me. My own little box. Yes I was an unruly turd until my Dad beat my tail, then I was a good little boy from then on.
So, essentially you are advocating the use of physical abuse on a special needs child? This article has nothing to do with shooting up a school. Read the article again and then write on the chalk board 100 times, "I will not speak of what I don't know".
Do you have a disabilty onermailliw?? If so you were unfairly treated and thats' a shame. IF you were just a brat thats' a shame too. Advocating bullying, verbal abuse, physical abuse and trying to call out bad parenting when you don't have a clue what you are talking about is just wrong!!! your dad should have been arrested for his abuse. Special needs children have a team that decides what a childs treatment and education will be and it MOST DEFINETLY includes the parent(s).
Would you recommend spanking for an epileptic child? a diabetic child? Your 'beat his azz' theory makes just as much sense for them as it does for an Autistic child. Neurobiologists have proven with MRI and PET scans that their brains do not function in the same way as other children.
That's what they did in the Bedlam Asylum in the 18th century. Beating, whipping, spanking, etc, to treat epileptics, bipolar disorder, depression, Autistics. It's so nice to know we've all moved on from that primitive Old Testament stuff.
Oh, wait.
whats funny is all these parents think just cause your kid has special needs he can be a @!$%#en brat,thats the parents i dont care what your kid so called has,you parents thik its another person problem to deal with your @!$%#ty ass brat of a kid,makes me so pissed,i see kids with problems all the time,its not a schools or anoter person job its your as a parent if it takes you going to school every day with your kid so be it,you had the @!$%#en kid,if i had to deal with half of your peoples @!$%#en kid i would put them in a box allso,kids now are just brats period all cause you parents are worthless as worthless gets really,you all depend and think it's others job to watch the kid,learn to parent.
@ Anthony420007 you must not have any children with special needs because you don't know what the hell your talking about. I did go to school with my son EVERY DAY, and I take him to physical therapy twice a week, behavior therapy once a week, psychologist at least once a month and keep in direct contact with the school everyday. I want my child to learn, but I also make sure that his learning is not at the cost of the other children's. I gave up working, and we live on basically nothing to get by on, and no we don't have ANY state or government help. We pay over $600. a month for all the therapy and medications, and that doesn't even cover gas and car expense's. My kid is not a brat, he does have punishments when he acts out. I work just as hard if not harder than people who's kids don't have disability's. I think you need to be stuffed in a box and dumped into a trash compactor for being so mean and ignorant.OH and FYI my son is most improved student of the month of the year and now is the class star due to all of my hard work and the teachers. His class mates love him and miss him when he's not in school. So some of parents are busting our asses to make sure our kids succeed.
crashmary, from what I've seen, special needs kids' parents generally work a lot harder than other parents if they are stepping up to the plate and doing right by them. Of course, there are those (usually but not always "daddy") who can't take the heat and walk, to the devil with them ....
Anthony42007, this kid is not a brat. he is a child with a disability. if you had a learning disability we would not beat it out of you, we would try to help you. i absolutly hate people that think and act like you, you think that your litterally the best thing to happen to the planet since oxygen and anyone else can just suck your b@lls right? WRONG, you are exactly what is wrong with society today, i only hope that one day you will realize what a HORRIBLE person you are and make amends with the people you have insulted. i can totaly see you as one of those AWFUL people that make fun of the disabled and its a shame that all the beatings your parents gave you never put an ounce of respect or decency into you. maybe they need to try again? i personally would love to see someone beat your sorry @ss into oblivion.
Anthony, the way that you write in all your posts, you seem to be a '@!$%#en brat' yourself. Have you ever heard of the psychological term projection? Check the mirror, pal, the brat's on the other foot.
It would seem that you haven't gotten the help that you so desperately need. I'm sorry for that. Ask for help. It works and it's a sign of adulthood. Good luck, I hope things get better for you soon. I sincerely wish you well.
Judging by some of these comments, it seems that some of you also think that you can get through to a deaf person by YELLING LOUDER. It makes as much sense as your comments.
The correct treatment for mental patients used to be electro shock therapy or lobotomies too. So, what genious developed "box" treatment, and were they there to administer the "therapy"?
Everybody is ALWAYS looking for "damages." We have GOT to be THE most-damaged society in the history of the world...!!!
You all know, of course, that this trend is part and parcel of our absolute GLUT of lawyers. There are only a handful of positions open each year in established firms (you can lawyer until the day you die), yet our law schools pump out thousands of new lawyers every year. (Law school is just about the only place Liberal Arts majors can go after graduation. There are no jobs out there for them, so they have to stay in school...)
I'm sorry. I have five kids. They have no mental deficiencies that I am aware of. Sometimes, I long to put them somewhere "quiet". Yet if it had been brought to my attention that someone in a position of authority in their school was routinely putting them in a box, well, yeah, I'd kick their a***s. No one puts my kids in a box but me!
So it's OK for you to abuse your kids?!
Was anyone hurt? No. Get real here people. Why does everything have to be a lawsuit?
Doesn't require a lawsuit unless it continues to be an on-going issue where the educators fail to treat the child (children) in an approriate manner. However, in some cases being sued is all that gets the attention of those in the wrong.
Of course it should be a lawsuit - a teacher instructing a child to spend time in a box - that's nonsense! Psychologically damaging for sure. Bet it wasn't part of the IEP - that child has rights too. I would sue on principle just so that she could never harm another child.
Duane L.
Of course it should be a lawsuit - a teacher instructing a child to spend time in a box - that's nonsense! Psychologically damaging for sure.
Thanks for your "Expert Analysis" of the "Special Needs Student" Damaging How?? From reading the advertisments and labeling on the Box? "My boy has obviously been psychologically damaged from this experience because he will now only eat "Chef-boy-ardi cheese ravioli from a can" ? Would that be the basis of your lawsuit???? JUST WONDERING??
The child went there on his own when he felt he needed to - we all don't know when we might need to get some extra space. Should the teacher have coordinated her effort with the parent? Of course!
And there I was hoping his name was going to be Jack.
Was this teacher given a class of Special Needs kids for her own perverted fun? You don't put normal kids in a dark, claustrophbic box, unless your dealing with the Vietcong. I understand discipline, but this is just ugly, plain and simple. Get this Sadistic witch out of teaching before she can cause real harm, if she hasn't already. God knows what has been going on in this class room that no one knows about yet. Get someone who is trained for this work. Someone who can deal and appreciate these kids.
I'm not too sure about the box option, although many special needs kids are more than a handful with no easy solution.
Some years back a local public school had some plastic, stack-able cubes big enough for elementary school kids. They had relatively large entrances and plenty of holes in the sides. Kids liked to get in them during reading time. Kids who needed to calm down after an argument with another student often wanted to sit in them - they had mats and small pillows in them for comfort. Kids who were having discipline problems were often offered the option of sitting in one of those cubes or a trip to the office.
No one ever complained about the use of these cubes. A cabinet and a cardboard box are cheap - but unacceptable - especially when they are used in the manner this school used them.
Maybe school administrators and Special Education Teachers just aren't as smart today - as they were back then.
That would hold true if the student had the same comprehension of a cabinet or cardboard box that perhaps you and I possess. An infant would certainly not have a comprehension of what these objects are. The average 20 year old mind most likely would.
It is plausible therefore to assume there is a curve of cumulative understanding between the two points. Somewhere in the middle it is reasonable to assume the mind sees only an enclosed space, not a vessel intended solely for the storage of inanimate objects.
Seems to me that the "offensive" posts here are all just attempts to get people's dander up and get a response to the post. The writers have no real interest in the original article, just getting some responses to their feigned insensitivity. Probably some kind of scoring event to see who can get the most replys. Just as if I said " It is obivious that the Democrats and Obama have caused this by thier spending habits" or " This is a direct result of Bush and his capitalist friends ruining our schools for thier own profit."
But then people vote for these same Politicians over and over again. People are stupid voter's. They are terrified to vote for somebody new.
And yet I think Tarzan7 missed your whole point, Mormegil. LOL
We did vote for someone new and got Obama!
It's called flamebait, Mormegil.
You people are irrational and very sensitive. You are the same people that wonder why our public school system is not doing well. "Oh lets throw more money at the states, and have the federal government get involved with the school system! yeah that's a good idea hurr....."
How about we start kicking all the standards up a notch and have a giant competition. It's called "let the failures fail and let the winners succeed." It'll teach kids to have a competitive spirit, and if doesn't then too bad they'll die off. That's evolution. As for the kid with the fake "illness" who cares if he's in a box. Who cares if suffers from "emotional distress" if it caused distress in anyway then there's something wrong with him.
Mike- your comment has absolutely no value. I also think you are the FAKE human being as well as uneducated. EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!
I would sue the school and that teacher would be fired. Instructing a child to spend time in a box is wrong for so many reasons - for any child (not just one with special needs). That is psychologically damaging. Teach a child to think outside the box not inside one.