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Jamal Tarhuni looks over his U.S. passport with his son Rasheed at his home in Portland, Oregon, after returning a month late from a trip to Libya. Tarhuni was denied boarding a U.S. bound flight and summoned for extensive questioning by the FBI.
After the FBI mysteriously interrogated U.S. citizen Jamal Tarhuni in Tunisia and delayed his flight home to Portland by a month, he finally was allowed to return to his family on Feb. 14, as msnbc.com reported. Tarhuni says he still does not know why he was stopped and could not get the FBI to confirm or deny whether he was on the secret no-fly list.
On Wednesday, the mystery was solved, partially. When Tarhuni, 55, attempted to fly from Portland to Seattle to deliver a presentation about his experience providing humanitarian aid in Libya, he was denied boarding.
His story is familiar to people on the FBI’s secret no-fly list. Tarhuni went to a kiosk at Portland International Airport for automated check in. The machine produced a message saying it could not process his request and instructing him to talk to a customer service representative.
The customer service representative at Alaska Airlines took his driver’s license, then disappeared into another room, he said.
"After about half an hour I was told that for security reasons I would not be able to fly today," said Tarhuni, who was driving to Seattle, about 175 road miles from Portland.
He asked the manager at the airline to contact a representative with the Transportation Security Administration. But after a 10-minute cell phone call, the airline manager said there was no one to resolve the problem.
The no-fly list is maintained by the Terrorism Screening Center, administered by the FBI. According to the FBI web site, the list contains the names of "known and appropriately suspected terrorists." The list has about 20,000 names on it, according to the TSC, including about 500 U.S. citizens. FBI policy prohibits confirming or denying an individual is on the list.
"In practical terms, I have to drive in the snow and rain to Seattle because I made a commitment to the World Affairs Council to give a presentation," Tarhuni said.
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- No-fly Americans split up to fly home
He was scheduled to speak Wednesday evening at a World Affairs Council event on his experience working with Medical Teams International on humanitarian projects in Libya -- which is where he was before his encounter with the FBI in Tunisia.
"Personally I am extremely disappointed, and I am at a loss for what I need to do, and whether justice will be served," said Tarhuni, who was born in Libya but has lived in the United States for more than three decades.
Tarhuni says he will pursue a legal case if necessary to force the government to restore his right to fly. Among other things, he was planning to facilitate teams of American doctors and nurses who will provide training in Libya, which is trying to recover from a civil war and set up a new government after the ouster of longtime dictator Moammar Gadhafi in December.
In the meantime, Tarhuni was preparing to board a train as early as Thursday in Portland to get to a meeting in Minnesota on March 3, where he and a Medical Teams International representative are slated to speak to a Nobel Prize forum.
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Leave a Comment:
I understand the caution, a Nutrualized citizen from the Middle East making trips back & forth. And lets not forget the recent attempted plots committed by naturalized citizens. What does a terrorist look like? Sorry if it is profiling but the world is basically at war?
I sure do love the double standard, profiling pricks we've becomed. This society is an absolute joke now.
Really DKJ...If we have the security screening process prior to boarding the flight and we think it works...why do we need the do not fly list?
Sorry if it is profiling but the world is basically at war?
I think the question mark was appropriate. You can say what you like about "these days", but the reality is this is the safest period humanity has known since the discovery of fire. If that seems hard to believe at first, I challenge you to try any other country, and other century, as well as ask yourself why you believe the world is more dangerous today than previously.
DKJ-4,
I have known the Tarhuni family personally for many years now and take offense on their behalf for comments like yours. Jamal is a caring and openminded individual who left the comforts of his own home to help the people of Libya recover from a devastating civil war and has done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment from his own country. Closed minded people like you are sinking the US into fear and hate, not naturalized citizens who happen to be Muslim.
No, there is a problem when a country starts treating it's citizens like this. If the government was really interested in saving American lives they would do something extreme (aka stupid) like require ignition locking devices, since we lose more people to drunk drivers every year then we lost on 9/11. Now for good reason we would never put up with that, because the technology is flawed, it's expensive, and it's ridiculous that we would have to prove our innocence every time we wanted to drive. Now when it comes to the threat of terrorism the amount of liberty we're willing to give up, for perceived safety, even though we face much greater threats in our everyday commute, stuns me, and this is coming from someone who lost a loved one on that horrible day.
I've been stuck on the No Fly List, had my accounts frozen, phones tapped, though luckily I was in NYC and I had friends there, otherwise I would of been sampling the city's soup kitchens and sleeping god knows where till I was finally cleared nearly two weeks later.
When I travel, and I do that a lot, I'm use to being basically powerless in other countries, but this is America, land of freedom, land of The Bill of Rights and of laws and protections for it's citizens, but I read stories like this, or I read the comments on articles like this and I don't recognize my country and not only does it worry me, it makes me sad.
Actually Mary, I also travel a lot and it's getting to the point where I'm treated better in other countries than I am here at home.
Papers please.
Welcome to the U.S.S.A. United Socialist States of America.
This no-fly list kept secret by the FBI is a huge joke on the American people. It doesn't make us any safer, and it causes a whole lot of problems for decent ordinary people who have Arabic sounding names, or fly to destinations in the Middle East. Just another example of the total incompetence, and complete lack of sensitivity of the these Foolish Bumbling Idiots who get paid with our tax money.
Dammit it I'm using a possessed laptop! Ok let's hope third times a charm.....
Alsosprac:
I never meant to imply that I've had negative experiences traveling. Heck, I love Paris, I'm always treated wonderfully, even though I only know a handful of French words and speak with a heavy American accent. I could also go on and on about the wonderful people I met in Iraq or Syria, or the lovely Iranian people I've met. My point was that us travelers have to deal with the government and the military and that I doubt I would have Bill Clinton swooping in to rescue me should something go down. I've been in countries where they check your papers and go through your bags and while I doubt America will get that far gone in my lifetime, I still find any movement in that direction to be disturbing.
Mary I certainly understood the jest of your comment. I just wanted to add my observation because we so often hear the comment that it's so much better here than anywhere else....While that might have been true in the past, it's certainly not a given today.
We've traveled to a lot of the same places and had similar experiences. The one thing I might disagree with you on is what may happen in our lifetime. I am genuinely concerned (as I know you are) about the incremental march we seem to be on to forfeiting such basic rights as freedom of speech, assembly, and movement.....and the march is starting to feel like a run.
Alsosprac:
Wow, I'm like having the worst PC night ever! I've already restarted it and it's bastard cousin a couple times and both computers keep freaking out on me!
Ok color me stupid, but I still have to believe that Americans have a breaking point....that eventually the words of our founding fathers will break free the fear that some have put forward and that we won't let those bastards(/terrorists) wins and strip us of those most basic tenets of our country.
So profiling is bad? Hmmmm, let's review how many terrorist bombings and killings have been done by the same people...muslims! Maybe in recent history its about 99%? So, guess what? It makes all kind of sense to watch carefully the people who have done this....of course the loudest wails of protest come from the American muslims who do nothing to stop terrorism, but sit quietly by and by thier silence approve of it.
Where was your indignation when McVey blew up the Federal Building. America cannot allow fear to control the conversation. This country was built on due process which secret lists disallow. You are sitting comfortably unaffected by these kinds of actions. Many people said nothing when a million Jews went to death. Wrong is wrong no matter the reason behind it. Are we a country of law or fear where secret lists are kept and people no matter their background lose their God given rights. Perhaps all white evangelical Christians should be put in a truck rental ban list because of McVey. Muslim Americans should not have to apologize for the action of some wingnuts who proclaim to be Muslim any more than white evangelicals should apologize for McVey. Let freedom reign.
Lybia......euhhh middle east....no!
yeh, you can google it!
I am glad some people understand that the FBI and TSA can refuse an American citizen the privilege to fly, just like every other American is allowed to do, ARE YOU JOKING!?
I am sure you are one of those people that "understand" why Japanese AMERICAN CITIZENS were put in fenced camps like dogs during WWII. Thankfully the government now realizes they can't get away with that kind of two faced double standard.
I, again apologize for the actions of our government; to treat you like you are second class is sickening.
This is completely ridiculous and it shows how this type of system will continue to embarrass and humiliate citizens like Jamal Tarhuni.
The FBI and TSA can easily come up with a system that would allow Jamal Tarhuni to fly, they just choose not to, probably over an abundance of so called safety.
What happens with JOHN SMITH is put on a list, what if Billy XXX, Jack XXX, Mary XXX, Marv Leit, Rocky XXX, Jose XXX are put on lists, this is a luge starting down a slippery slope.
The sad truth is no one will care until they are affected, only then will people see the injustice of this.
Just so everyone is very clear, I am a white male that was born in this country, my mother and father were born in this country, as well as their parents'.
I am not Muslim, in fact I am hated by most people since I consider myself an atheist.
Being an atheist doesn't mean I don't believe that everyone has inherent rights from their creator, everyone does.
I understand flying is a privilege, taking away that privilege from Jamal, a person that has done NOTHING to merit such denial is sickening. For example, (we) take away driving privileges to those who have demonstrated that they can not do so in a legal manor, yet in the case of Jamal -- it's not about what HE has done, its about what others have done and what he [might, could, is capable] of doing.
All of us are "capable" of being a terrorist, but we will never be singled out... and that's why people, for some reason, can't understand the injustice of this.
I love this country and what it stands for, and I would never live anywhere else, the United States of America is the best country on this planet, and me being able to post my opinion proves it -- we are better than treating law abiding citizens like this.
The fear that we feel about security and our safety from anyone that is Muslim or we THINK is from the middle east; shows that the terrorist are winning, the goal of terrorist is to strike fear in a large group of people, listening to this article and some of the comments -- it is clear we are afraid and it is sad.
How "recent" are you defining recent history? Because we could count Tim McVeigh, the Unabomber and abortion clinic bombers. I'm pretty sure we could count some extremist Greenpeace members too. How about that charming fellow who shot up Rep. Giffords in Arizona? Maybe the KKK and various other racist groups? I bet you're the loudest voice in the room when it comes to complaining about Obama stepping all over your freedoms while gladly giving them up if it means you'll be protected from the scary, scary brown people.
OK, i can understand the no fly list, but i cannot accept the lack of explanation given or the initiative to resolve the issue. It reeks of unprofessionalism by our government.
Based on what I've read elsewhere there is no "official" process for having a name removed from the no-fly list. After all, if the names on the list are secret how could you prove you're actually on the list?
I suspect nobody in government wants to have anyone removed from the list because someone would then look bad if a person who was removed from the list eventually was leter responsible for an act of terroriam.
AMTRAK CASCADES. Four round trips between Seattle & Portland daily... and NO TSA
Yet.
We need to repeal the stupid USA Patriot Act. It is anything but patriotic. I am so sick of Republican fear mongering. Life will return to normal when we return to normal, not before. Terrorism is about creating precisely to environment of fear that now exists in America. There is nothing wrong with proper due diligence. Had that been occuring in the first place the 18 Saudis and an Egyption whould never have been ble to commandeer commercial aircraft and fly them into buildings as missiles. That said, we do not need a Gestapo police state mentality to contine to prevail over our better sense of individual rights and freedom as articulated in our Constitution.
"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither. People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."-Benjamin Franklin
"The greatest of tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes."-Thomas Paine
"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it."-Daniel webster
pathetic- just pathetic. @!$%#ing bullying coercig and terrorising majority! and ohhh im no muslim
Seriously? You can use that kind of language around your mother all you want, but here... No.
So, grow up!
maybe its time to stop looking at your dear mother and (wanking).
I can feel the whole forum shake... go to sleep, too late...youre on the wrong part of the internet.
Wow... you must have social problems...
I agree totally and completely and unequivocally and stuff like that. I think the more secret lists the government has the easier it will be for us real 'murcan citizens to fly or use the bus or the train or kayaks or burros or horse-drawn carts. I saw three terrorists just this afternoon in the grocery store. I was amazed at how much they looked like you and your sister's aunt's brother-in-law. I thought about calling the FBI, but then they just sort of disappeared right before my very eyes. The world is at war? Who do you suppose the world is at war against? Just think, we have intergalactic wars, something I never thought I would see.
No, nothing here, move along--just killing time.
The history of mankind is replete with accounts of societies that gave up individual rights and freedom for the sake of personal safety. There is a famous saying that comes to mind. "When there are too many policemen, there can be no liberty. When there are too many soldiers, there can be no peace. When there are too many lawyers, there can be no justice."
If this guy is such a "risk" don't they think a train is a weapon, I'm surprised the poor guy can even drive to Seattle without the State Patrol tailing him.
yes mike the vet, it is a slippery slope when citizens can be treated in this fashion. If this is the kind of person that the fbi's little dragnet is catching then they are clearly fishing in the wrong waters. The keeping of secret lists is not the kind of actions I would like to see my government committing. Essentially that says you have been accused of committing a crime with no chance to defend yourself. I get the feeling that most humanitarian aid workers aren't real interested in blowing up a busload or two of people on their way to help out at a refugee hospital.
McCarthyism at it's finest. A Muslim/Mexican under every rock. Scare the hell out of right wingers to get them out to vote. Pathetic.
Of course if we had been vigilant and paid any kind of attention to the muslim bastards on 9-11, 3000+ people would still be alive and the twin towers would still be standing...keep the profiling, and make it even more strict!
Yes, and if we would have been vigilant and locked up every bastard that drives a car think of how many highway fatalities we could have avoided! Keep cracking down on motorists and make it even more strict!
So the Terrorist won. We as a nation have become what we most aspired not to be, a Fascist state.
Please be advised that by DHS Guidelines you are now considered a Potential Terrorist and by the NDAA have forfeited you rights as an american citizen. You may now be detained indefinitely without trial or access to a lawyer and if it is deemed by someone that you are a significant threat to the gov't you may be assassinated/executed without due process.
chuckanar,
Be sure to blame President Obama, G.W. Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, F. Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, Wilson, Taft, T. Roosevelt, McKinley, Cleveland, B. Harrison, Arthur, Garfield, Hayes, Grant, Johnson, Lincoln, Buchanan, Pierce, Fillmore, Taylor, Polk, Tyler, W. Harrison, Buren, Jackson, J.Q. Adams, Monroe, Madison, Jefferson, J. Adams, Washington and all of their cronies!
While i understand looking at people who visit countries that have a history of having terrorists visiting them this stuff is crazy. If they won't even tell him WHY he's on the no fly list to resolve the issue there's a serious violation of this guys rights in the works. It's one thing if they can point to something and say THIS IS WHY but to not even let him contest it and making him not able to fly is just rediculous.
You can have yourself removed from the list, if you're wrongly listed/can prove it. Someone needs to look into that. Or maybe he likes the attention, who knows.
My understanding is you can do that, but to do so you have to sign something giving up your right to file a suit against the government. Basically you say "in order to fly again, I retroactively give up two or three constitutional rights that have been violated."
So we're basically 'guilty until proven innocent'?
These TSA security types are so big on themselves as in the pretend cop mentality that they love the ability to hold things like this over someones head. If he is not a threat and a naturalized US citizen he needs to be able to travel. Don't we have something called the Constitution?
I don't think he even got into visual range of the TSA.
It's odd the FBI is pushing so hard with this when by now they must know they are wrong about this guy. Their privilege to subvert the constitution because people are afraid of terrorists won't hold up if they become pigs about it. The supreme court is willing to let some things go if it seems reasonable, but the way they are going about this, it's almost like someone on the inside WANTS the SCOTUS to slam them. It makes no sense. It may seem like a triviality to the organization at the moment, but hell hath no fury like a supreme court justice's wrath.
Normally, the concept of 'judicial restraint' keeps rulings against the government small and not make waves outside the particular case being considered. But if they feel like they are getting taken for a ride, there is no practical limit to what the SCOTUS can do to the FBI. They should be more careful and use more discretion when making these arbitrary decisions.
Let's be realistic. The FBI will never admit that they are ever wrong about anything. It might make the agency look bad, and they can't allow that.
Darn...it's really tough being a muslim in a free democratic society. Uhmmm...wonder why that is. Wonder how many terrorists he he aiding while he is in Lybia. Yes William, there really is a constitution - that is exactly what the militants are trying to destroy. If you take on the identity of a muslim, you need to be able to accept the profiling, the stereo types, etc. and live your life in such a way that you dispell all that. If they are not willing to do that, then they need to return to their home land - which is not America. Never should we allow the various cultures in our society change the American culture - they need to chage to fit what they claim they treasure.
If the guy is a citizen, he's got the same rights as you. If you would throw a tantrum if you were not allowed to board an aircraft without explanation, he can too. You aren't dedicated enough to the constitution. Or you are the kind of person who is ok to let his daughter get felt up at the airport so long as it means spiting someone with a crappy religion.
Grow up.
There's no doubt that he's lived in the United States for over 30 years. He's taken an oath to the Constitution as a naturalized citizen. He is afforded the same rights you are under it. He's just as entitled to practice his religion as you are or any other christian or jewish person in this country.
I am sorry for you that you are so narrow-minded to not realize this. When we as a people start talking and thinking and feeling the foolish and bigoted thoughts you are espousing, you might as well fly to DC, and burn the Constitution. I will not do it. I will not stand for it. I will not allow you and your kind to make us a people worse than those we are at war with.
I hope that he either gets answers from the FBI directly or through legal action in Federal Court. I am sure he can find able counsel that will be more than happy to put an end to this silliness so that he can continue with his good and important work on behalf of people who spent so much to find democracy.
We don't have to worry about someone else destroying our constitution - we're doing a really nice job of it all by ourselves. We have become exactly what we're fighting against...a society that is so fearful it's willing to do ANYTHING to be safe - the problem is that we never were completely safe, nor will we ever be.
ahhh yes, i remember this attitude when i moved to the US with my folks. the days where i had to drop my english accent in public since my teachers thought i had a speech impediment.
dblhelix:
My mum is from Australia and when she moved here, the teachers couldn't figure out what language she was speaking. She would get so exasperated that she would actually say, "I am speaking the Queen's English." Yeah, an Aussie giving any kind of credit to the monarch is a pretty dark day.
bahaha a dark day indeed.
i just remember it being, i think, around the 4th or 5th grade that one of my teachers just couldn't wrap their head around it. "are you from minnesota?" no. "canada?" no. i said i was from england and she replied "well i can't believe how badly they've screwed up the english language." that was my first true WTF moment i think. after that it was her personal duty to fix my pronunciations whenever she could (with the always subtle "in america, we say...") and i just said the hell with it and talked like everyone else while in school. i didn't start talking like a londoner again until my family started asking why i sounded weird.
and this wasn't even back in the day, it was only during the nineties.
UmmmJack-1522032: You can be Muslim and have America as your homeland. Islam is a religion, not a nationality. And the words Muslim and American are not mutually exclusive. And anyone who is an aggressor towards others is not following the teachings of Islam, and does not deserve to tarnish an entire religion and people who belong to a religion mistreated by some people - do not deserve to be oppressed due to their religion. You seem to perceive Muslims badly - consider some of the 2011 Gallop Poll on Muslim Americans (), such as:
Regarding your comment:
How about that, according to FBI files, which can be accessed through fbi.gov, only 6 percent of terrorists are Muslim (1980-2005 data; that's the latest I can get). The remaining percentage of terrorist attacks on U.S. territory includes: Latinos at 42 percent, extreme Left Wing groups at 24 percent, Jewish extremists at 7 percent, Communists at 5 percent, and other terrorist organizations at 16 percent.
It seems you are a victim of right-wing media bias.
I am more in fear of some crazy ass neighbor than any Muslim. Then again, i don't watch fox news.
Perhaps you should.
mindless gop tv is for nascar, pro wrestling fans. I want no part of it.
I am a retired Vietnam Era vet who spent a career in computer service and support. Try again. BTW, my hobbies are classical music and ancient Greek and Roman architecture. Do you know how to spell L..O..S..E..R? Look in a mirror.
Your choice of name is ironic, howaboutpersonalaccountability. Your willingness to apply collective guilt to all members of a religion that has over one billion adherents is the exact opposite of "personal accountability."
Perhaps if radical Muslims were not targeting the United States for terrorism, destruction, and mayhem, the less radical Muslims would not be so closely scrutinized. I seem to be missing something here...I guess I am not that smart...help me understand?
A black guy robs a gas station... I guess we should scrutinize ALL black people right? A white guy blows up a building in Oklahoma City, I guess all white guys should be scrutinized right? A religious fanatic shoots up a camp full of kids, I guess all religious people should be scrutinized right?
If you need me to explain the part that your missing, it wouldn't make much difference.
Try multiple issues or trends versus isolated incidents or anomalies, and statistically you can create patterns or forecasts for expected future results.
Its unfortunate that the innocent suffer because of the guilty. Reminds me of the Japanese Americans during WWII who were put into camps just because of fear that they were all spies.
What happened to the great melting pot? Who cares if he is a Muslim and has brown skin? He is first and foremost an AMERICAN and as such our "police" agencies DO NOT have the right to harass him unless he is charged with a crime. Unfortunately, once again my tax dollars are going to be used to pay off a American who sues due to our idiot politicians who don't fire these stupid bureaucrats who try to circumvent the constitution instead of paying off our debt or helping Americans who need it.
Setting aside the no-fly issue for a moment, who flies 175 miles??
Depending on my schedule....I do.
To UDunnoBro..... those that don't want to drive the I-5 corridor when it's raining, which is all the time. Road spray keeps your vehicle moist.
Busy people who can afford to. Flying is far safer than driving.
If the FBI is so adamant about this man being a possible threat, wouldn't it seem that they have information on him that we do not? Would they really put their reasons out in the public domain if they did?
If innocent, I hope he is able to be cleared for all travel.
When the next attack comes, I believe there will be many blaming the US government for not protecting the populace well enough. Apparently, something is working, as we've not had another attack like 9-11....
Once upon a time we had to decide as a country "is it better to be red, or dead?" That is, is it better to be safe at any cost, or is it better to accept the risks of a free society and defend our rights. Unless this American citizen is accused of a crime and found guilty, the government should not be able to secretly punish him. This "safe at any cost" attitude must stop.
The only good reaction we had to 9/11 was locking the cockpit door.
If they thought he were such a threat, would they, even after a month of wrangling, have allowed him on an airplane back to the United States from Libya (his stated place of birth) when this no-fly mess started?
If they had information, it should have been dealt with then. If it was to the point they allowed him to come home, that seems to me that case is closed. He should be off the list or should sue to be off it.
That is cyclical fallacious logic. It would be like saying since we have had a law against the universe spontaneously imploding since 1965; It's been an effective law since the universe has not spontaneously imploded since then.
Under principle of Law: He is assumed Innocent and any crime currently remains unproven; therefore he must be Judged as innocent.
In truth the philosophy in which the government has employed against potential terror attack is in truth a form of Ignoratio elenchi (presenting an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question.)
In law we are supposed to know what we are being accused of and to face our accuser. The FBI today is not the FBI that I knew as a young man. I think that the terrorist have won a big prize. I don't feel safer. I feel oppressed.
Many do, and a great alternative for Portland - Seattle trips is SeaPort Airlines. Inexpensive and fast.
Response to #16
I hope it grounded his ass in another country :)
Uptown
You apparently have more information that has been published before. Can you share with us what it is that makes you feel that way?
German Pastor Martin Niemöller
Alsosprac, you make a very good point. We have been here before: we forget that we left our countries of origin for a reason and then we brought that fear and hatred with us.
You'd think we know better than to follow the "leaders" in deciding who is guilty in this country: the Salem Witch Trials should have taught us that. Today, we harass the Muslims. Tomorrow, we expand it to include Catholics and Atheists. The day after...
Funny his story should come to light today. A friend of mine who flies semi-frequently for his work and I were chatting earlier and he sent me this. Seems highly appropriate for this. It shows just how shoddy the entire mess of TSA/FBI/Airport-Airline security is. It's all a smoke screen to make us feel safe...
Mike:
Absolutely correct! During a trip, about a year and half ago, there was a slight misunderstanding with my ID at the screening point which resulted in being pulled aside, the airport police being called over to keep an eye on me, they even opened up a new screening aisle to process my carry-on, and me having to explain my situation to a supervisor....and then to that person's supervisor. Any which way, it got cleared up, but even with all that extra scrutiny they missed a larger, mostly full bottle of water that I had forgotten to toss out before I went through security.
Smoke screen indeed!
So why is some one who is to dangerous to be in an airplane allowed to be on a train?
Is it safe for someone this dangerous to be allowed to drive on roads?
Russell
I have a suggestion for you. Stop looking for logic.
I have a great idea, we got this really old document called "Bill of Rights' and another old document called Constitution" I would go ahead and suggest we read it again and follow it.