I think this study look at race as being the determining factor when in reality it is not race, but socioeconomic status that is the real determinant. The fact that far more minorities tend to be poor and attend schools in poor areas is the real issue, no the race of the student. It would be interesting to see the data analyzed from that perspective rather than race to see if the achievement rate for white students in these poor districts is also low.

Another thing that this study does not seem to examine is if the rate of disciplinary actions and referrals to law enforcement mirror the rates at which minorities commit crimes in the general population or if there is some disparity suggesting teachers are targeting minorities. Personally, I think it would find that the disciplinary and law enforcement referral rates are the same as the crime statistics, meaning this is more about the rate at which minorities commit crimes rather than anything specific to the school system.

Another thing this study does not seem to address is the condition of the schools. Being poor or a minority does not make someone willfully destroy and deface their schools, attitude does. You do not see students in more affluent school district destroying their schools and the learning materials the way you do in poorer districts. You do not see broken windows, graffiti defaced buildings, vandalized and stolen educational materials, etc. in more affluent districts the way you do in the poorer districts. Being poor or a minority does not make a person a vandal or a thief, the upbringing and attitudes instilled by the parents do that. An example of how the upbringing influences the performance is borne out by the example given in the article of the school in Montgomery county MD. Despite being an area that has a mostly minority population, the students tend to do better than other predominantly minority schools. This is because Montgomery county is a suburb of Washington DC where many of the parents work for the government in one way or another and understand what it takes to get ahead. They instill in their children the importance of a good education in succeeding in life. You do not see most of the schools in the county defaced and destroyed by the students.

The same things that cause the disciplinary issues also contribute to the lack of offering of advanced academic programs. The schools can not offer these programs when they have to spend their budgets constantly repairing the physical building and replacing books and teaching materials needed for core classes that are destroyed or stolen by students. I wish the study would have examined things like the useful life expectancy of a text book in a poorer district with mostly minority students versus in a more affluent district. I imagine it would find that the frequency with which text books must be replaced do to their being defaced and destroyed is much higher in these districts. Being a minority does not cause one to write in and destroy text books, attitude towards education does. Being a minority does not make the students steal science equipment from classrooms like microscopes and other lab equipment, attitude does. And where does this attitude come from - the parents. In addition to these financial reasons for not offering advanced academics, there is also the issue of demand for these courses. A school need to have a minimum number of students interested in taking these advanced classes in order to justify expending the severely limited resources on them. When the parents are not pushing the kids to take these advanced classes, there is no reason for the schools to offer them. You have to have the demand for the courses to start with. There is no point in offering a calculus class if you do not have the students willing to enroll in it.

It is time to stop pointing at race as the driving factor in these problems. The school system is not prejudice and the race of the students is not the reason for their poor performance. The reason for the poor performance is the fact that most of the parents of these students do not instill in their children the importance of a good education or a desire to learn. This may be based on the attitudes of different races and cultures towards education, but it is not one that is the fault of the school system. It is not caused by racism in the schools, it is caused by the attitudes of the students and their parents. Just look at the fact that some minorities do quite well in schools while others do not and this becomes readily apparent. Asian minorities tend to excel in schools because the culture emphasizes education while other minorities that do not emphasize education do poorly.

Racisim like sex sells. You are right though they don't give the reason why those statisitics are what they are. They skew the story to make it look like racism. that's the pathetic B.S. the Liberal media plays all the time. We used to not say anything and they kept it up and now it's out of control. Did anyone besides The Blaze dot com report the story today about a White student being doused with gasoline and lit on fire by a group of Black youths today? That's what you get Whitey? Check it for yourself. Not one media outlet reported nationally but guareenteeed if it were the other way around it would have been all over MSNBC,CNN,ABC,CBS and NBC. Instead they thought this story was more important. Where was Sharpton and Jackson on this one?

Your children's future is literally in your hands!
Currently, Asian Americans are being held at a much higher college
admission standard. To receive equal consideration for the top
colleges, out of a 1600 SAT maximum (verbal & math)
1550 for Asians = 1410 for Whites = 1100 for Blacks.

Overall, African-American students are 3-1/2 times more likely to be suspended or expelled than their white peers.

Well gee, don’t you get suspended or expelled when you act up in school? Perhaps the white peers are actually there to learn something?

Why does it always have to be about race? Its ATTITUDE, not race!

They face more discipline. Well it sure isn't working. Take a look at the prison populations.

This post reminds me of why I volunteer for FASTRAC of Iowa City, IA. Henri Harper is the director of FASTRAC and an employee of MYEP. His program is for under-served, underprivileged and high risk youth. Most are from minorities, but all youth K-12th grades are invited. It not only supports college bound youth but any youth that wish to see the world in a more positive way. It promotes integrity and respect for self and community. By signing a contract with youth and parents, students agree to the following:

1.) academic improvement with minimum standards (Mentors are available to tutor and guide.)

2.) work to get off probation or to not get arrested. ( Henri was a high school counselor and on a juvenille probation committee.)

3.) get involved in sports and volunteerism (Henri's daughter was an olympic champion and provides opportunities for youth in East St. Louis, IL)

4.) assists with gainful employment through job search, resume writing, job coaching and close connection to businesses and churches in Iowa City.

5.) teaches youth to believe and respect themselves as leaders and people with vision

6.) prepares them to understand about local, state and federal government ( youth go to Iowa City Council meetings and have the opportunity to travel through civil rights tours which enlighten and impassion them to want to serve in government and make their contribution to civil service)

7.) Works with the University of Iowa to have youth make connections through forums and professional career opportunities.

8.) helps youth believe that not everyone sees them as failures or in a negative light. it ensures that their dreams and aspirations call come true.

9.) assists parents and guardians to change family dynamics that hinder success

10.) provides tools for life long problem solving techniques

11.) allows youth to fill loved and part of a family dynamic with holds them accountable for their actions and praises their successes

12.) promotes new business opportunities which support their programs ( i.e. snow and ice removal, FASTRAC Snack Vans, & more...Empowers youth to think about creating their own businesses.

13.) much more than this. (#1-12 are just a tip of the iceberg)

Finally, in the first two start up years all seniors in this program were off probation and all seniors were accepted to college and still attend to this day. They are assisted financially with ACT/SAT prep, FASFA application, tours around the US to top universities/colleges, and help with books, etc. while in college.

It is a full circle program. College students support the progam with mentorship and volunteerism. High School students help run programs for grade school student, etc. Eventually these youth have careers and families who benefit from what they learned, promote community awareness, public service and other forms of volunteerism. So the program actually changes many people by helping just one student. Transformations in these youth are amazing to say the least.

My point? Free youth programs like FASTRAC do work, save lives and make the world a better place for all concerned. It changes families that may never had the opportunity or knowledge to create promise in their children. Please LOOK AT THE SOLUTION! We know that the problems exist. It's a mute point to re-hash this issue and point the finger. We complaining does nothing and problem solving does everything.

Sincerely,

Therese McKenzie

In New York City, for instance, just 10 percent of the high schools with the highest black and Latino enrollment offer Algebra II.

Usually one must PASS Algebra I to get into Algebra II so if no one can pass it why offer the later? Perhaps the teachers and students should focus on PASSING Algebra I

Don't blame economics for bad behavior. I was raised with nothing. Except our parents made us behave. We couldn't fight or hit and we had to watch what we said. At our school, now that someone mentions it the black and hispanic kidsthat do get in trouble more. But they misbehave more too. You can't punch people and get by with it. Seriously. Our school handles it well and noone has ever mentioned it like this but it is true as far as getting in trouble. I don't know about any suspensions but I would suspect one leads to another. Perhaps the black and hispancis might want to consider how aggressive they are and thnk if they want to be compared with whites they have to behave and quit being so aggressive. Noone can just overlook misbehavior to skew statistics. They are what they are. It is the behavior and attitude that must change and then the statistics will. In America kids would rather get along than hit each other. AT least that is the way it should be.

JS in SD

"The reason for the poor performance is the fact that most of the parents of these students do not instill in their children the importance of a good education or a desire to learn. This may be based on the attitudes of different races and cultures towards education, but it is not one that is the fault of the school system. It is not caused by racism in the schools, it is caused by the attitudes of the students and their parents."

Well stated!

I don't think JS in SD is saying that racism doesn't exist and doesn't happen.

What s/he is saying is that socioeconomic factors and parenting problems are having a bigger impact then the racism.

Now you could probably argue that racism is the reason that these socioeconomic disparities exist. But if you did, then it wouldn't be the school system that's the problem and the problem would be in the local houses of government and state houses of government that determine in a large part where the money goes.

In either case, this study is not pointing to the real problem

My brother teaches 8th grade students in a poor mostly black county. It's really not racism, and it's pretty silly to say it is. I'm sure it happens, but in most cases teachers are pretty fair about their discipline.

The black community in general has a lower level of education, largely due to a history of poverty. Kids without educated parents tend to have less attention put on their school performance when at home. The parents, in most cases, couldn't help the child with their homework even if they wanted to help. When the parents arent educated, can barely read or do math, do you think that would be a household condusive to learning at a young age?

In my brother's school, he's lucky if 38% of his students make it to graduation. Drugs and crime are rampant. The parents are pretty much absent. Numerous parents that actually do come in for PTA meetings are drugged-out. He has at least 3 girls (8th grade remember) every year who are pregnant. With that sort of environment, why would Calculus be even offered when only 38% of the kids actually graduate? Who's gonna take it? Can a poorly funded school afford to teach a class in which only a few students might take it?

Another biased MSNBC B.S. story. I don't know about your city but mine it's the black gang members that cause 90% of the trouble at the schools. That is the root of the problem why more blacks are being suspended than whites. They are trying to make it look like it is racism when in fact it is not. Most of them don't care if they go to school for an education or not.

Okay Juan, lets take a step back and look at this. Yes, there is racism in this country but it doesn't always flow one way. Every group gets some and some more than others. Why? This government does not know. However, whatever the statistics are, they are bogus because what information is given does not have all the mitigating variables along with it. So, yet again, the government puts out a report that is not entirely accurate which have people debate on this newsvine with out being able to discuss the processes used which makes all the argument go away. Come on, when has the government actually put out a statistic that was not blown out of the water for being inaccurate? Compute inaccurate data into a test and it will equal inaccurate and flawed results. It shows they were prodding this because they were comparing to prisons and and made up criminal cases. Had they used the more to compare makes it more of a valid statistic but failed miserably. Oh, by the way, statistics can lie if the data collection is inaccurate. It all depends on what info they put in.

I think before these statistics have any validity, they'd have to include the reasons why students were suspended/expelled. I'm not saying there's no bias, but there's not enough evidence to say for sure.

I think Therese's post above really hits the nail on the head. A culture of criminality and violence is a driving factor, which comes from the lack of education and opportunities - opportunities which are often ignored in a culture of criminality and violence. It's truly a vicious cycle and a very deep and complex problem.

Racism still exists, no doubt, but I know a lot of teachers and they tend to be pretty dedicated and fair minded people. The discipline figures are a reflection of another issue, not a reflection of teachers being racist - that's a ridiculous conclusion to come to and only shows that you apparently went to a very homogenous school as a kid.

It ties into poverty, an urbanized sort of poverty - that brings with it all sorts of other issues. It has nothing to do with skin-color other than the stereotypes put onto people due to the correlation of certain ethnic groups with poverty.

Well gee, don’t you get suspended or expelled when you act up in school? Perhaps the white peers are actually there to learn something?

Why does it always have to be about race? Its ATTITUDE, not race!

The exact same attitude that they're all victims of whitey. Who'd have thunk it, huh??????

Even Bush was smart enough to suspend this research..there are many more races than just Black Hispanic Asian and White..

The more violent you are in school, increases the likelihood of you getting disciplined. It has nothing to do with race. You do the crime, no matter what your race, you do the time. If you look at crime statistics in major urban areas, most crime is committed by African-Americans, with the middle-school, high school and college age being the most violent. So it stands to reason that group is also the most violent in schools. There is increased friction between Latino and African-Americans, because Latinos are the "New Minority", now they get the preferences and not the Blacks. As far as Class selections, it's based on grades and the higher your averages the more Advanced Classes are available to you. An example, Frostburg State College in Frostburg,MD has seen an dramatic increase in African-American Students from the Baltimore City, Washington,D.C and surrounding counties. Frostburg has seen an increase in violent crimes, robberies,assults and murder on Campus & the town of Frostburg. That increase is caused by the African-American population.

There are many more races, I cant count them on both hands, so then what is the reasons these topics come up and its always Black and Hispanic who don't get what they deserve? Hmm" I know this one..

I read an article a while back that stated that in 2010 ( i believe), there were more "non-white" children born than white (non-white defined as at least 1 parent being black or hispanic). I'd like to see this study done in 15-16 years, when whites are in the minority

I'm also tired of the "blaming of the parents" and "people should" attitudes.

I don't blame the parents, but I recognize that parenting plays a critical role in all this.

This piece wasn't meant to be factual. It was meant to rile minorities into crying more racism. It is going to be a big part of obama's 2012 campaign, of which msmbc is in the tank for. Get all the minorities all fired up so they will get out and vote for obama. Remember his "Blacks for Obama" push, another one of his dividing the races. This will be the most racial year we have seen in decades. All for the benefit of electing obama again. Don't fall for it

This will be the most racial year we have seen in decades.

You'll see whatever you want to see, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change your mind. I could make the same argument that this story was meant to rile white people against Obama and the evil "liberal media".

Ya'll have been playing the "you're playing the race-card" card for a long time now. It's starting to be more common than the actual race-card.

Racism exist, always has and always will in our lifetime. But that isn't the problem because today more opportunities are available for everyone who wants to improve themselves. Stop blaming the system and get off your a** and do it yourself. The parents are more of the problem than the system, blame them. I believe anyone who wants to learn Algebra, Calculus or anything else can go to a library or Internet and learn it with or without anyone teaching. Make straight A's in school and you will see a lot of problems disappear. If you don't have the ambition and drive to do that then blame yourself and stop wasting my money I pay in tax for you.

Favoritism and racism is a way of life in school, throughout your career and life so get used to it, improve yourself, have confidence in yourself and do it yourself despite all obstacles. The harder it is to climb the mountain the greater achievement.

Juan. What is the ratio of serial killers to common criminals and gang members? Minimizing issues at school starts at home. No dad families, mostly minority. No support/direction, mostly minority. These are the people that place more value on a pair of basketball shoes and a cell phone than on getting ahead. Stupid article, just fanning the racism flames prior to election.

Juan, how many serial killers have we had in the last 5 years? How many murders on the street have minorities committed in the last 5 years?

l Of the approximately 1,700,000 interracial crimes of violence involving
blacks and whites, 90 percent are committed by blacks against whites.
Blacks are therefore up to 250 times more likely to do criminal violence to
whites than the reverse.
l Blacks commit violent crimes at four to eight times the white rate.
Hispanics commit violent crimes at approximately three times the white rate,
and Asians at one half to three quarters the white rate.
l Blacks are twice as likely as whites to commit hate crimes.

I was wondering if they took into account the fact that if nobody in the school wants to take Algebra II/Calculus/Physics then the school will stop offering it. Schools have to be run in some ways like a business ... if there's no DEMAND for the advanced classes then there isn't a need for the schools to SUPPLY the class. Now, I'm not saying that minority students are incapable of the higher classes - I believe that they ARE. What I'm asking is if the CULTURE in those areas stresses the need or desirability of those classes. This comes down from the parents of the students as well as the prevailing culture in the neighborhood that the school pulls the students from.

Juan, I find your post offensive. I am an American who is white. I'm not a European American or a Caucasian American, I am an American, first and foremost, who happens to be white.

I grew up in a poor urban neighborhood that was 90+% hispanic and I saw LOADS of racism, all my life. Guess what, almost all of it was pointed at me and people who looked like me so, yes I think racism is alive and well in America today but, I think it is mainly practiced by "minorities" nowadays and committed against whites.

Try getting a job in Houston without speaking spanish, then you will see real racism, commited against the blacks and whites whos parents and grandparents actually helped build this country. The illegal aliens seem to have no problem finding work. The guys outside of lowes expect 10$ an hour, with no english, no greencard, nothing.

I don't know where you live but, you should move to any large city in TX, you will love it and you will never experience or witness racism against hispanics again.

What an intelligent, insightful article...a "must read" for every black and Hispanic parent in America

I eagerly await the next installment in this probing series:

"Drivers who exceed the speed limit are issued more tickets by police, data reveals; researchers investigate possible racial bias"

Chuklak - If you do not offer those higher courses you lower the opportunity. If you lower the ability to achieve, you will also achieve less.

shut yer yap

You are the only one on here that is the idiot, and you are the one who is buying in to the BS propaganda of this article and the popular theme of the day in regards to the race card. Most of the above posts are DEAD ON in regards to the way the data of this article is presented. It's just another broad paint brush stroke to feed the fires of the race card when it is absolutely not true or needed.

The bottom line to the real issue is that our family values and structures are at an all time low. There are more single parents, working more hours, without suficient time to teach and train their children to be responsible, productive members of society and it is showing in the crime rates of all races. Public schools should NEVER be the place where are young people are required learn the proper life lessons, this should happen in the home, period. If it doesn't happen in the home, it won't happen for any race of people.

Glock9loaded

l Of the approximately 1,700,000 interracial crimes of violence involving
blacks and whites, 90 percent are committed by blacks against whites.
Blacks are therefore up to 250 times more likely to do criminal violence to
whites than the reverse.
l Blacks commit violent crimes at four to eight times the white rate.
Hispanics commit violent crimes at approximately three times the white rate,
and Asians at one half to three quarters the white rate.
l Blacks are twice as likely as whites to commit hate crimes.

Careful, careful, Glock9: your facts do not fit the preconcieved conculsions of MSNBC and it's editorial staff and put certain minority groups - not all minority groups, by the way - in a bad light

...therefore, I fear a ban or collapsed post will be your "discipline" for violating the rules of what is considered "acceptable" to report on these pages

What this article did not examine and to me is one of the most important if not the most important points to their conclusions and the examples of schools systems who have overcome this so called trend...is the fact that both "Dade county Florida" and "Montgomery county Maryland" are in fact minority counties. Montgomery county just recently reaching "major minority" status. It seems to me that these particular facts should not have been ommited when the article is attempting to demonstrate a Nation wide trend.

Black and Latino students across the United States are far more likely to be suspended than white students - and far less likely to have access to rigorous college-prep courses, according to a sweeping study released on Tuesday by the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights.

Our Nobel Peace Prize n' Chief's campaign of racial divide and class warfare is in full flight. The mainstream media minions are happy to oblige and get out the message! Bravo!

robbo - it is an article using some facts to support an opinion. It is a good argumentative paper, but not really representative of the problem.

Any Teacher whether from a public or a private school (we have dealt with both) will tell you that the secret to good education is parental involvemnt.

African Americans have by far the highest rate of single parents by far. Hispanic have a lower single parent families than African Americans, Caucasians, a shade better than the Hispanic, and Asians a shade better than Caucasians.

You are not going to see much improvement until the family is made stronger. Today we teach that just about anything is a family. We teach that sex with anyone is okay as long as you use birth control that we provide free. We teach that you don't have to listen to parents, because if they discipline they are abusing the kids. Our system destroys family by how it tries to help them. Example: It is far better for two adults to never marry and just live together. If they get married, their aid is cut. Our tax system also makes it better for a couple with one or two kids to put their kids in daycare and work. What happens is that the parent lose their involvement with the kids.

The empires of Greece and Rome fell because they obliterated the Family and promoted the pleasure of the individual as more important than the good of all. If you don't believe me, than answer the question why Rome had so many entertainment venues and a bath houses located so close together. It certainly wasn't to help raise the kids.

Careful, careful, Glock9: your facts do not fit the preconcieved conculsions of MSNBC and it's editorial staff and put certain minority groups - not all minority groups, by the way - in a bad light

...therefore, I fear a ban or collapsed post will be your "discipline" for violating the rules of what is considered "acceptable" to report on these pages

I would heed boproppa's words, for I was just suspended a week for using the word "fool" to counter a slurry of personal attacks that were aimed my way. Careful when operating here, you dont have to be told of the bias you will encounter, in both opinion, and board rules

Arne Duncan wants teachers to look in the mirror? The same Arne Duncan from Chicago whose minority students murder each other at about 50 a year clip. The same Arne Duncan when African-American CPS students murdered a child with a 2x4 went to Chicago and threw $500,000 in hush money at the problem. Maybe its all the fault of Democrats, we know that 95% of all blacks voted for Obama and 67% of latinos. Where exactly does his responsibilty lie? And by the way Arne Duncan has no MIRRORS!

Racial divide: Minority students face more discipline, data reveals

More broken homes? Did we really need a big article and study to figure this out? "Racial divide" of course MSNBC has to make it a racial issue.

I'm not sure what the schools across america are like but here inland california, the blacks and latinos out number the whites by a huge margin so to see them being suspended in larger numbers is no surprise. The majority of all the teachers are also latino so I think that kind of takes the so called racial profiling part out of the equation.

The schools are NOT at fault. The parents are teaching their children that they do not have to follow the rules and that it pays to play the race card. The Blacks teach their children to hate and pummel anyone who might "act white". Mexicans are the most xenophobic of all and actively teach their children to hate all non Mexicans living in "del norte"/Aztlan - the entire southwest US. The Mexicans are teaching their children that the US stole "northern Mexico" and that they have the right to rejoin the southwest US to Mexico. (eg Arizona recently shut down an "ethnic studies" program because one of the class objectives was to teach hatred.) They will never mention the events that triggered the Mexican American war or the money that was paid to the Mexican government (and pocketed by the Mexican leadership). The Mexicans do not feel as though they need to study and work hard because everything they see in the western US is theirs free for the taking. They don't even want to learn English so that they can participate in the larger society. The paradigm has changed.

Just want to let everyone know that my white son (6 yo) goes to a school that is 80% black and he has been suspended from school once and suspended from the bus 3 times. This was during his terrible 2 months of experimentation with acting up at school. We got him straight, though, and he is back to having very good behavior every day. But, just so everyone knows, a white kid WILL get disciplined if they act up, even if they are the only white kid in their class with a white teacher.

When the people giving these surveys actually post the results. I will listen. Locally there are three to five times the number of latino students as white students. That is a possible reason that latino students are more likely to get into trouble. There are more of them. So tell me, if the number of students in all these campuses were given, would the results be the same.

The other thing is that they are comparing inner sity schools with suburban schools. I do not expect to find classes for advanced algebra in the ghetto. Those schools have enough problems getting their students to show up, let alone graduate at the basic level. Are there one or two diamonds in the rough with great potential and a desire to succeed? Of course and it's a great tradgedy that those students are left behind because of their socio-economic status. Economics and attitude play a huge part in all of this too. Affluent families can afford to hire tutors for their struggling kids. They can afford to give their children enriching experiences. They have time to spend with their children one on one to instill values. Affluent families of all colors tend to have highly educated parents who credit their success in some part to their education and want that for their kids. I come from a less affluent but mostly white school. We had similar problems with white girls getting knocked up in highschool and white boys getting in fights and getting suspended. Most of the parents in the town I lived in earned a living running a small family buisness. Pizza parlors, tatoo shops, auto mechanics, etc. Very few of our parents were college graduates. About half of the boys left school early each day to go to VO/TECH. That was considered the smart choice by many parents. Who needs college when HVAC and Plumbers make good money? Kids were encouraged to get a union job after graduating highschool and many of my classmates settled down and got married fairly young. We were a blue collar town. I was one of the few that went on to a 4 year college, mainly because it was important to my mother. My mom has a college degree, she's a teacher. My Dad does not and thought it a waste of money to send a girl to college when I'm jut going to get married some day....(His words). So yes, education level of parents does make a difference. As do resources available to families and attitudes about the value of education.

Over all, I think that if a student has potential and family support they can overcome any bias they might experience. A student motivated to learn will seek out programs like the one described above. They will look for mentors who can help them with difficult course work. They will ask their teachers for extra help before or after school (I have met few teachers not willing to provide a little extra support to a student hungry to learn). They will utilize free resources like the library. It will not be as easy as it is for a white upper middle class student. But in the end, they will be better for having worked so hard because we all value that which we obtained through hard work much more than that which is handed to us. That lesson, that education is something to be valued highly and worth working hard for is something that person will be able to pass down to his/her children.

I'm not naive enough to believe that racism doesn't exist. It hard to overcome stereotypes and deep seated bias. What I will say is that most white people probably don't want to be racist. They try real hard not to have bias. Most white people are not running off to the local KKK meeting or using the N word in secret. There are no meetings led by "the man" where white suburbanites are getting together to discuss ways to "keep you down".

Yes, there are assumptions made about others based on race. Based on stereotypes. Some good, some bad. People of all races make some of these assumptions.

• Black commit more crimes.
• Asians are smart.
• Indians are good doctors.
• Italians all have family ties to the mob and like gold chains and hair gell a little too much.
• Latinos work hard doing menial tasks like framing houses, cleaning motels and harvesting crops.
• Blacks are good at sports.
• Irish are drunks who beat their wives and have too many kids.
• Asians all know martial arts, so don't pick on them.
• Latinos are working under the table and many don't speak english.
• Middle class white white guys are dorky and can't dance.

You get the point. Now how do we change stereotypes? Well stereotypes don't just come out of nowhere. They are created over time by seeing a pattern of behavior emerge. To change the stereotype, you have to eliminate the offending behavior and create a positive one in its place. So African American and Latino activists really need to start focusing on their communities to keep their kids out of gangs, keep them off the streets. That kind of change can only come from within the community. Railing against "the man" and complaining of "inequities" does nothing to solve the problem. Stop with the race envy, it's not helping. There was a time when African americans got less, had to ride the back of the bus, couldn't vote, went to segregated schools, faced lynch mobs on a regular basis. Those days are gone. Yes there are still those who have attitudes and bias against black americans. But you can't legislate people's opinions. Society has done all that it can to level the playing field. Now it's up to the minority americans to take advantage, do the work, and show the world that those negative attitudes and stereotypes are wrong. Prove the racists wrong!

Did they look at WHY those students were suspended or expelled? Or did they just say Blacks and Latinos were suspended and expelled more??? Are they being expelled for things Whites dont get expelled for? If the answer is no, then the question is why are they doing worse things and its not about the teachers.

Xina the Awesome

I was reading your post and I have to say I agree, I’d also say that you was pretty much describing where I live too

This is the payoff for the US for making it acceptable and for being unable to basically even speak truthfully about the result of children giving birth to children.

What would be an acceptable educational success rate for fatherless babies born to 16 year old high school dropouts ???

In a recent study on the problems that come from teenagers having babies in my state, we the people were instructed to "understand, not judge, the cultural differences".

I "understand" that a monstrous problem is growing worse and trying to make a racial issue out of it is not going to help solve a problem that just might be beyond fixing.

Why is MSNBC Newsvine trying to push its readers to FB?

The Limbaugh topic is hot, but I refuse to go onto FB. I hope the little study they're doing is a flop!

This article represents the conundrum that the concept of race and how it has been employed to control people represents. For 80% of the existence of this country it has been legal somewhere to discriminate against blacks. That would provide a rather formidable obstacle for any cultural group. On a macro basis, it is easy to see how some within the black group might have been trapped in poverty. Even more compelling is the continuing narrative that seems to always suggest that there is something wrong with black folks. Although anecdotal, i am aware of countless situations that are the antithesis of what this article presented. I know, or am aware of, countless black young people who are in college, have graduated from college, are in graduate or professional schools, and who are gainfully employed. The media would have you believe that they do not exist.

I also know countless numbers of black students who have scored high on the standard exams that are given. The media again would have you believe that all blacks are somehow challenged in this regard by using averages to describe the test performance of a racial group.

All of this is negative information about blacks. I, for one, believe that it does create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Expectations for blacks and others with regard to blacks become much lower. So, yes, racism is a part of the problem.

Having said that, individual initiative is also a part of the problem. This is required for virtually any successful endeavor. So that even though racism may EXPLAIN certain demographic differences in economics, education etc. among the various races, it cannot be used as an excuse. I say that from the position of a black person, not a white racist. The reason it cannot be used as an excuse is because of the impact to the black person. One thing has always been true-failure plus excuses does not equal success.

There is no magic bullet. There are multiple factors that have created the results cited in this article. But, to the extent that the results paint a negative picture of a particular "racial" group, they do not do service to that group even the intentions may be honorable.

This story leaves out the reasons for the disciplinary actions and why the statistics are higher for certain ethnicities. Sure you can have a study based on the colors of the rainbow, but the only thing that willl do is inform you about colors and maybe green is a more popular color than pink, maybe orange is a more hostile color than blue. They left out the study on why they are disciplined and have higher statistics regarding behavior issues and the reasons they are being expelled, not just that there is a higher percentage of one ethnic group disciplined more over another only based on color of skin. I live in an area where there are a lot of various ethnic teen gangs, mostly black, asian and hispanic gangs. There was a very big problem with black teenagers beating up asian kids, you read about it almost daily in Philadelphia. The hispanics are often after other hispanic gangs that might be from different geographic areas. Then the whites are all blamed and called racist against all these kids fighting amongst those ethnic groups. Its been this way since I was in high school over 30 years ago. So not much has changed since I was younger. We had black gangs back then and they were always after the white students. I'm not very impressed with this study, it is very misleading.

You get what you give.

Xina the Awesome- Excellent reply!

Yeah I am sure this issue has everything to do with race, and nothing to do with effort. This is nothing more then the liberal spin machine cherry picking numbers for the advancement of a political agenda.

Interesting. All this from a left leaning socialistic school system. Watch out for the secret agenda.

Asians and Indians are left out of every liberal "racism" article because showing that some minorities actually do just as well or better than whites wouldn't fit the sad political agenda.

The "racial divide" is little more than the reality of both nature and nurture.

Why no article on the "racial" inequality of asian math scores vs. the obviously unfairly treated white kids? It wouldn't make the self-righteous, ignorant, sheep feel "special" about themselves would it?

JS in SD (post #1.1) - Well said!

Therese from Madison - FASTRAC sounds like a great program, which addresses many of the cultural and attitude issues referenced by JS in SD! I hope for it's continued success!

Political correctness at work destroying America and I'm a liberal! The people who do these studies and omit Asians/Indians are just the the opposite side of the same coin the teabag types are on.

There will always be racism as members of the same 'race' find reasons to segregate amongst themselves; it seems natural for people to seek out differences amongst other people whether it be color, musical choice, area in town lived in, monetary differences, city vs. country vs. urban, etc... . Many are taught, and not always negatively so, to be proud of heritage; Irish, Catholic, Scottish, Italian, German, Budhist, .... not always ethnicity but also religious background, culture and value of ancestors.

We are all human animals, and being such we all have propensities; it's no mistake that almost all Earthly religions point towards one.... don't kill, don't aldulter, don't lie, don't harm, et al. The reason is because thousands of years ago and prior, humans realized we have the capacity and engrained need to be superior in some sense, to lie, to do all theses things. The thought of un-Earthly consequence was one way get some that otherwise wouldn't have to fight the 'demons', to do good and do the best possible to suppress and reject some of what bad does come naturally to human animals.

Government has been very good at fueling racism, as it is both lucrative and makes them more necessary; dividing the masses, pitting them against eachother is not only greatly distractionary but also known to be fuel for one 'party' over the other. Following civil rights movements, what was termed 'reverse racism' was rampant and the government knew how it'd play out; no longer was qualification as important but quotas had to be met and of course this soured many whites. Government knew this, and it worked well for them but badly for all others, only creating more tensions and starting them where non existedd prior.

All takes time and we certainly would have all been much further along had government not intervened to the point they did. They're doing it again with Mexican immigrants and illegals. By keeping the pendulum swinging far one way then the other, they're keeping progress stagnated by constantly choosing sides instead of equality for all.

Legislature changed law, equal rights were given for men, women, blacks, and all others. Instead of peacefull transition, they ensured internal American warfare by making sure it was anything but peacefull under the guise of equality which turned out to be anything but. They piled up more and more laws, more segregated chapters within government.

Now comes an article like this, clearly ignoring so many variables and intent on picking scabs, motivated perhaps politically but certainly intent on seeing just where many stand and how well they're doing their job.

Formerly being from a mostly white school, I had to explain to my children why the children of any minority persuasion weren't punished as the other white kids were; I had to explain why they were allowed to get away with more, somewhat of what politics are and mean, and to not hold it against the minority children but the system. They saw it as unfair, and the kids allowed to get away with a, b, or c saw it as a free pass, encouraging more bad behavior. So, they created bad feelings and racial divides where none existed.... kudos. I'm sure that this is the case at predominantly black, Mexican, Asian, etc... schools. What are our youth then being taught?

Equality is just that, and again we should be much further along on this one; but, from the 3 different school districts I've lived in, it's not being administered. My girls have friends from all ethnicities, but if not for me and left to the system I really don't know how it would have played out.

I taught at an expensive Catholic (all white - except for me) school and tutored at a (in Xtina's terms) "ghetto" school. I do not have a teaching degree - but have several degrees and the Catholic school had latitude for me). Parental involvement was interesting. At the Catholic school, I had parents who did not attend parent-teacher conferences. I had parents who would talk back at me in front of their child. I heard the mantra that their little angel "did no such thing." Luckily, I kept the evidence that their angel was my brat for 8 hours a day. Some parents were great. What I did not get from the Catholic school was the right to discipline even a severe violation. One student, who I believe had not only mental problems but also problems at home (which I did report), screamed the "f" word at me because I asked him to open his math book (for the third time). He dropped another F bomb when I told him to go to the Principal's office. I called the office to make sure he arrived and briefly explained why he was there (8 years old). They sent him back to me, I had more and more problems with this child - but I could not get him detention or suspension to save my life. His parents were also single minded that he was brilliant and wasn't being challenged - to which I pulled out all his homework, which clearly showed B work at best - he was not my brightest student.

Tutoring in my neighborhood all black public school - there is a police officer on the premises (k-8). I saw an 8 year old taken away in HANDCUFFS - I asked what he had done, he had cursed at his teacher. I tutored 7th and 8th grade math, but (from our tutoring space) all I could hear was the first and second grade teachers screaming at their class, belittling the students, and not teaching much of anything - crayons were the children's education - the teachers were too lazy to teach. I never met ONE impolite child at this "ghetto" school - but I didn't scream at any either. The kids that were sent to me, they needed only positive encouragement to be successful in math.

So, in my experience - there was a great divide in how white children were treated as entitled little adults, and black children were in handcuffs and hauled out of school - for one curse word. I also saw more parents at the "ghetto" school - trying to speak to teachers but the teachers didn't want to speak to the parents.

All the comments that politely say that there is racism in this country have been collapsed. Let me just say this before I am collapsed - when was the last time a minority child gunned down his classmates at school - when was the last time a "white" child gunned down his classmates at their school?

So

Most comments on this thread are so predictable. The white race as a whole are totally out of touch with the racial enviornment that their system of WHITE SUPREMISY created. Some white folks GET IT....but as I read these posts, it's the same old "It's their fault their Black and exist in our racist society" But as the white BIRTH RATE continues to decline, there will be a time when they well carry the LABLE and STIGMA of bein a SO-CALLED "Minority" Whites are ALREADY the minority in America, they just don't know it yet!

The conditions of Blacks and Hispanics in America today are a direct resault of HUNDREDS of years of DISCRIMINATION, OPPRESSISON, SEGRAGATION, POLICE BRUTALITY, and I could go on, and on. What's truely incredible are the advances that these great HUMANS have made INSPITE OF the hatred they face on a daily basis.

The true question becomes, when is "white America" going to find the COURAGE to face their own EVIL??? But to do that they must soften their hearts, and come to grips with the FACT that their system of SUPREMISY has hurt GENERATIONS of fellow HUMANS, all due to RACE!!

Why no article on the "racial" inequality of asian math scores vs. the obviously unfairly treated white kids?

excellent point, pjam09 - it is getting harder and harder to blame "racism" when so many non-whites are kicking butt academically and rarely cause trouble in school

....and so, all sarcasm aside, what is the point of these MSNBC articles anyway, other than to try to try to mask the real cause behind the increased discipline of black and hispanic students - which is the behavior of these students themselves?

My computer is a bit out dated, and especially on these postings where the posts are below the article it is unbelIEVABLY slow, so I couldn't edit in time.

I'd wanted to add; equality is just that. No matter how big or small the group, minority, majority, somewhere in between..... ALL MUST be treated equally. For many adults, some is already engrained but for our youth this must be done. No more special interest groups, no more black, white, gay caucuss groups.... equality all the way. All the same rights, the same criteria for all, all the same period. No more special exceptions for any, no more special considerations for any, just a plain azzed level playing field.

Get government the hey out of it all; they've already written equal rights laws. Legislate towards legalities where disparages exist, such as gay marriage, but get rid of all the disparaging, racist committees and caucusses and special rights groups. They've no place any longer, save for what government promotes. These are the same arguements that exist over regulation vs. deregulation and the difference between what is and isn't regulated; it's simple, but the divide, the fight encouraged.

Contrary to what a poster said above, I find this article NOT well thought out or well written. The reason why is that it offers no supporting evidence for its claims. While a certain degree of racism still exists, it is the minority not the majority. Socioeconomic factors weigh heavily on the information in the article, but no mention is made of that at all. Underprivileged students can and do succeed but their rate of success is much lower, regardless of race. Attitudes in the home do play an extremely large part of a student's success, not many can fight an up hill battle both at home and at school.

Another point raised above, was the interest to see how this information mirrors crime rates in these communities. That is valuable information when compared to the area demographics and school demographics. It could indicate if there was truly a racism problem in a school or if that is just the way the neighborhood actually functions.

Bush canceled the gathering of this information because the information gathered, (if this is a sample) is in itself inaccurate and biased. It does little to indicate where the true problems lie. I grew up in Chicago and in my area were five public high schools which students could attend. Three of the schools were demilitarized zones with police undercover as students to help quell incessant crime and drug abuse. These were supposedly college preparatory schools, but had some of the worst success rates and the highest minority populations. The other two schools were "Tech" schools that taught regular curriculum, but also offered shop classes to students that were not as academically advanced. They were two of the better High Schools in the Chicago public school system and had much more stringent standards for attendance and admission. They weren't as racially diverse, but not because of racism, but because of admission standards. They weren't crime free and they did have there share of discipline problems but no where near the other three, plus they had a much higher success rate for students attending them,(graduation rates for students were much higher at these two schools than they were for the other three). By the way, this was on the North West Side which in the 70's was a solid middle class area with little in the way of violent crime or poverty. My point is that these schools offered alternatives in education tailored to the student and not some government edict on curriculum. They found ways to engage students in productive activities while the other three were baby sitting centers for high school aged students. That is the problem when society says that it is to demeaning to hold a child back because they will now be older than the students they have to study with. Passing children along without the education they should be receiving only compounds the problem and destroys a students self esteem far quicker than the stigma of being a year or two older than the rest of the class. The student learns that no one really cares so why should they. When that happens, learning becomes secondary to social concerns and attendance much less important than hanging out with friends.

@mackman-912848

The true question becomes, when is "white America" going to find the COURAGE to face their own EVIL??? But to do that they must soften their hearts, and come to grips with the FACT that their system of SUPREMISY has hurt GENERATIONS of fellow HUMANS, all due to RACE!!

Besides the spelling..... I have posted, almost this same quote on the "vine" before. Want to stop and get rid of the NAACP, CBC, all the other "pro black" organizations out there??

for lack of better phrasing "White America" needs to take a good look inward. If we had the equal playing field they give each other, we would have NO NEED FOR ANY "pro black" ORGANIZATION!! It's sad that most don't see these organizations as black folk trying to help other black folk to further equality within the system.

These kids, as young and impressionable as they are, already have a clue as to what they are up against, and they are angry. A fair shot, that's all any black folks ever want.

Ok, everyone is missing the point. We need to spend much more on education. Why? Look at the successes of the past. We need to spend more on Teacher Rights and Unions. Why, look at the successes of the past. We need to provide special status to the underprivileged AA, why, look to the successes of the past. We need to provide greater rights to the students whom drag the rest of the school down, why, look at the successes of the past.

What if we were to look at the Parents and maybe place a bit of responsibility there??? I realize it is far fetched and aggressive and I would never want the parents rights to be imposed upon. An easier approach, we could dumb the system down further so we could have fine graduates like Michael Vick and his little brother. Look how well that has worked. We could just ignore the real problem and hire more people in the administration of the school systems to cope with the other extra employees and HR needs in the system.

Why even bother with the strain on the poor kids and parents. Let's just mail off some diplomas. Leave them blank and let the kids and parents fill them in as it suits them. It would cost much less and we would achive the same results. That sounds fair and every kid will be the same. After all, isn't that the objective?

Mackman, talk about racism! That post was all hate! We are not the minority where we grow the food and keep the guns. Have fun in the city when that race war you seem to want comes around, we'll still be living the same way out here, blacks and whites get along pretty good around here.

If you really want to know the truth, look up the national standardized test scores. I have two boys in school as we speak so I have been watching them for years. No matter what they do to the test or how they give it, it always comes out the same when comparing the races shown in the article.

1. White 2. Hispanic 3. Black. The difference between white and black will be significant in all things, but really so in the maths and sciences.

As far as being in trouble. Don't blame that on racism, unless you are going to include how hispanic students treat white teachers.

Also, my boys have to complete three years of foreign language. Required by the state, however, a hispanic student, who can already speak the language may take a progressed course in spanish and get 2 credits for one year. Now my sons can't do that in an english class. Racism, cuts both ways people.

My neice, who is half hispanic and half white, is listed as hispanic on her records. Want to know why? She will get into colleges and get grants that my white sons can't get and they are in advanced classes and outscore her every year. Just because I am white does NOT make me the racist.!!! ANd personally, I am tired if that crap!!! My kids work hard and I make sure they do, but as my late Dad used to say, " the world needs ditch diggers too!" We can't all be doctors.

First, where is there any scientific proof that the races are all exactly alike in behavior, or effectiveness at learning VERY different skills (Reading, Writing, Math, Science)?

There is no evidence of that.

It is simply scientifically possible that there is a predisposition to certain behaviors or abilities that is genetic in nature and common in a particular race.

We all know that skin color is different. So is average height and weight. Hair type and color as well as eye color. There are also differences in muscle distribution.

These are all differences that have a genetic component that can be quantified and the distribution of those traits is predictable based on race.

So now the part where people stick their fingers in their ears and don't want to know the truth:

The strongest likelyhood is that races are not the same when it comes to inherent behavior instincts and cognitive potential in various fields of study.

It's not the only factor, or even the strongest factor, but it is a factor.

We often forget that the various cultures of the world evolved both from place AND peoples. That is the genetic component that is one major reason that even with similar environments, you get radically different cultures.

I think people wish there were no differences in the races. But simply saying we are all 99.9% the same doesn't mean much since all dogs are 99.9% genetically the same. The disposition and cognitive abilities can still be radically different AND can be shown to be a characteristic of the breed.

The longer we avoid looking at the science on this, the less likely we are to be able to move on. Reality is not going to go away because we don't like it. You can make it illegal to say what I just wrote, but the genetic predisposition is still there, and with advances in technology, there is only a short time before these racially based genetic predispositions are proven as fact.

The question is: if it is proven that a race has better math aptitude than another or a better behavior instict - are we prepared to accept it and use that knowledge - or do we still have to pretend that all races are the same? And if that is the case, will we be using the current progressive model of seeking equality of results by bringing the outliers down to the average instead of celebrating their differences?

Shut your yap,

"This article just reaffirms the need for programs like affirmative action and stringent monitoring of civil rights progress across the board in this country. The U.S. is still filled with ignorant bigots still pushing the Supremacy agenda."

You and those like you call others "racist" while you are the ones pushing that agenda. I don't see you pushing for more white athletes and white athletic scholarships. Do you disagree that more black athletes for example get football scholarhips than white kids? You will argue that they are superior athletes. Right!!!??? Why then can't we go ahead and admit that white kids as a group are smarter???

Ryan, If I could I would vote for that post 100 times. Practicality and facts, that's what I like.

Egyptians had enslaved fellow Egytpians; slavery had been going on for millenia in Rome and all over the world. Africans weren't taken at knife point; they were sold by fellow Africans, kings or leaders. Slavery was common practice throughout the world for a long, long time. For whatever reason and however the light bulb finally went on, people figured out 'hey.... this is really wrong!'.

To state blacks and latinos have been brutalized for hundreds of years and attempting to justify any behavior that is negative based on that is complete and utter racism in and of itself. Some of my ancestors were Irish coming into Ellis Island; read up a bit on how they were treated and looked upon. It's happened to every race, every culture, within races and cultures since history of human animals began.

The past is over, was considered the norm in it's day, but that day has long since past. We're all on equal grounds now, if we'd allow ourselves to be. But, again... it's part of the human animal to have our weaknesses, our negativities, our downside. If we don't fight that, if we don't have the ability to get rid of the past (none of us were likely even around for) and see the forest for the government's dividing trees, if we argue over an intentionally biased article meant to do such, we're losing....

Here and now, there's no excuse for any; we're responsible, period, for our actions, our direction. Unfortunately, children bear the burden of parental biases, weaknesses, and prejudices as well as living conditions, family, etc... . They are the ones that need to be washed of prejudices and class, racial divides. Seems we're not all doing that well parentally, and that's where the real problem persists, not in some made up, inflamatory article that negates too many important variables.

To say there is no racial issues here in the USA is really just denial. I was a high school dropout at 15. Went to work at 15 got my GED at 16. Then did not return to get a college degree until I was 29 years old. My elementary schools were normal. But when I got to High school it was in the ghetto. As some people call it. Within the first 2 weeks of my 2ncd year. A student was stabbed in a fight. Not ten feet away from where I was standing. By a white kid. Gangs where the dominating force though.

I had a few racist teachers then also some very good White teachers. Does this stereotyping exist? We need only to look at some of these posts! With an open mind. Racism exists and will continue to divide us until we as a nation stop telling ourselves fairytale history.

You know there is a bit of bad in the best of us. And a bit of good in the worst of us. Each culture that either came to this country. Or existed before we became a country. Has something to offer. And until we as a people. End the attempt to change those that are different from that fairytale all American image. We will continue to have racism. I happen to like the different cultures. That add to what we have become.

All peoples of the world United under one flag chasing our own dreams. How sad the world would be if we were all the same. The main problem with our education system is we are attempting to mold Kids into one form. A scientist does not need to be a master of history. And a history professor need not be a math wiz.

Each kid no matter their race should be supported by us their community. In chasing that dream and offering the resources and guidance in becoming what they were born to do. Then we would have less so called bad apples and more productive members of society.

These kids, as young and impressionable as they are, already have a clue as to what they are up against, and they are angry. A fair shot, that's all any black folks ever want.

Why should they be angry? Who's telling them that they don't have a fair shot?

If you are a black student and behave yourself and make decent grades, you stand heads and shoulders above your black peers and move to the head of the line to receive recognition and benefits that would be denied a non-black student of the same ability.

I personally know a black female engineering student who was courted by numerous corporations before her graduation despite her mediocre GPA. In other words, she was a hot property not because of her ability - but because of her gender and skin color.

This persistent attitude of: "I can't make it, so why should I try"is just an excuse for laziness, in my opinion.

Where I live in western Nevada, the school district blatantly punishes and discriminates and actually segregates the Native students based solely on their race. When one Native student is punished, all Native students are subjected to the same punishment. When a parent complains, the district employee says it is policy that made them punish, segregate, or otherwise discriminate. The school district then says there is no policy of racism and that a "race card" is being played. The district then declares an incident de facto and can't comment on any action taken against the employee because of privacy laws. If a parent is diligent and stays on top of the situation, more incidences tend not to happen. But in two or three or four weeks it starts all over again with the same outcome. Is it coincidence that our area is also heavily hard line republican?

Glock9loaded

You pulled that crap out of a racist web site that has been around for years, it wrong then and it wrong now.

XINA, your stereotypes type don't measure up to reality. You will look at REAL crime stats from the FBI you would find that whites make up 70% of the arrest year in and year out since the 70's and you would also find that white men commit more hate crimes then blacks. You would also find that over 75% of all sex crimes against children are committed by white men, with the majority of them being well educated. Again this is from the FBI. I guess that's left-wing bias organization too right? So continue to live in your Fairy tail world all you want Here is reality....

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

Ryan inTexas , 4 or 5 years ago a nobel scientist did exactly that. His findings where that African desendants where inferior mentally. Of course everybody shouted racism instead of checking the facts. Rick a few examples of superior intelligence would be nice. Maybe list some great African cities or architectural work or great philosophers etc. or a city they haven't destroyed.

Schools and their districts discriminate, police discriminate, prosecuters discriminate, judges discriminate, clergy discriminate, people on the street are prejudice. I guess some people here would need to be on the recieving end to ever aknowledge these facts.

Mackman,

As long as minorities like yourself profess to have intelligence and then prove your self wrong by speaking, or spelling in your case. Supremacy is how it is spelled pal. And oh yeah, Label is not spelled LABLE, oppressison is spelled Oppression , Segragation is spelled segregation. I guess i don't have much to worry about regarding minority intelligence surpassing me any time soon. Just keep jamming that diversity down all our throats and you may get your wish to have an all mocha world. Then i suppose it will be a new cause you take up to push the blame onto others. This is real simple, Take responsibility and stop blaming a vast conspiracy against minorities committed by whites. Minorities basically control the pulpit now. There are no more excuses to hide behind. There is no more need for affirmative action. Just motivate yourself to do better. Take advantage of all the entitlements that are on the table before Obama is shown the door. STOP THE EXCUSES AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

It doesn't even take enough intelligence to actually spell the words, it just takes enough to hit the spell check. Living the stereotype.

The study is basically a ton of raw data from which a handful of race-related correlations were extrapolated and reported on for this article. A lot of additional analysis and probably follow up studies will be necessary to draw any reasonable conclusions. In short, y'all need to chill on all the indignant cries of racism and/or drawing your own racist conclusions. It's just data at this point.

I agree that this article is terribly biased. I thought that Fox was bad, but I'm starting to see MSNBC as being just as bad (albeit from the other side of the aisle).

Statistics are worse than useless if the author doesn't apply critical thinking to assess ALL the possible drivers of the disparity. Why can we never even THINK of blaming the cultures represented by the respective minorities for the poor performance? Even the label of "minority" is misleading, as blacks and latinos don't always represent a minority in their district. Not all school districts are run by whites. And we'll never get to the truth if we continue to define a racist as "Any white guy who . . ."

School performance, like crime, can be linked to socioeconomic factors, but it's DRIVEN mainly by one thing -- VALUES. Africans in America brought their values, as a subset of their culture, from West Africa. In West Africa, people don't value education. It's not a money thing; they just don't think it's very important. Public school isn't even free in most countries; all families have to pay "school fees" to attend public schools. These countries have black leaders and black teachers (who have the power to make school free if they want); so there are no whites to blame for their policies. West Africa is poor, but they have enough resources to fund a proper school system; they just choose not to. That's a problem that got imported to America.

Why can we never ask blacks or latinos to look inside their communities for drivers of poor performance? Why can we never assess their cultures for problems? (Multi-culturalism, pushed hard on us by the Clintonians, blinded us to the possibility that all cultures have strengths and weaknesses, and that certain of these weaknesses should be judged as serious problems for society.)

And blaming parents for poor school performance is like blaming gravity for an airplane crash -- bad parents exist, and will never go away, so schools need to be designed to overcome this problem: smaller class size, more teachers, longer school day, longer school year, more after-school programs of all kinds, summer programs, enhanced breakfast & lunch offering. Yes, this will cost lots of money, and I argue that this is the most important use of government funds (and makes an excellent project for economic stimulus). And if teacher unions are banned, then even less of the money will be wasted. Cutting the Federal Department of Education down to three people and a checkbook would also free up lots of money. (Why does the DOE have an Office of Civil Rights? How much does it cost? We have a Constitution, and that is enough.)

Tom, one of the points your missing is that parents need to involve themselves in the learning process. One of the big problems that come up is that parents do not care how their children do in school. One student I heard of from her teacher, only showed up for three days of class for an entire year and was passed on to the next grade because she was able tp make a 70 on the simple tests that were given. The girl just did not care about school. Her parents apparently did not care about her skipping school either.

One of the biggest problems is the lack of ability of the schools to discipline the children nowdays. Whether its fear of reprisal by the student or the parent, or the ineffectual rulings of school board, the path to change a student's behaviour is simply not present.

If there were a way to fix the problem, without reinstating corporal punishment, then it needs to be found. Without a path for the school to take to correct behaviour nothing will change. The school I worked in had a program called ISS(In School Suspension) which did nothing to correct the problem. Some students spent the entire school year in the ISS classroom.

I just came upon this article and have a lot of reading to catch up on, but I wanted to post this so that I could activate my Newsvine's automatic tracker. Sorry for the interruption.

European American kids are disruptive in class. Have fun, however, disciplining them when their parents take up for them at every turn. One cannot expel a European American kid without a major, major reason. Black people and Hispanics just kind of accept it for what it is.

The kids in Owasso--as lily white a suburb as you can find--drink and do drugs on Saturday night and then polish their halos and go to church hung over. If those kids were not wealthy and white, they'd be jailed in large numbers.

Go and teach in a school for a while--teach in a European American school. The students are just as nasty--only in a different way. The Black and Hispanic kids mostly get into fights with each other and are surly. The European American kids taunt or ignore the teachers, take pictures on their cell phones when the teachers get mad, and post the result to YouTube so their parents can see how "abusive" the teacher is. It's just as disruptive in its effect--only of a different type.

Eddie are you implying there are bad teachers? The unions will tell you all their members are above average. Go figure.

Have to agree with you Wreck. Just have the white kids bring the average down. Just like they currently teach to the lowest common denominator and the slowest in the class

The phrase, "You just tryin to be white." pretty much says it all.

Prior to the liberal "awakening" of the mid sixties the black monolith culture was much different. Admittedly, segregation was evident but the attitudes regarding family, responsibility, what it took to get ahead, etc. were firmly in place and even though there was separation the black "condition" was in a much better place.

With the expansion of liberal thought after 1964, and the attitude of "don't worry, government will provide (and be a surrogate father)" set in and the reality of the black existence began a downhill slide, picked up speed and continues today.

As black leaders like Bill Cosby have said many times in many ways, it's up to blacks to change their culture (in a lot of ways change it back to where it was prior to the mid sixties) only to have liberals and government tell them it wasn't necessary, "Don't worry, be happy, we will provide." If there's finger pointing to be done it should be aimed at liberals, Democrats and D.C.

Several years ago I read an article in one of the news magazines - I believe it was TIME, if memory serves - that reported African American women were rising through the ranks of American society much, much faster than African American men. Perhaps the author of that article and this one should get together and compare notes and tell us the reason for both of these anomalies. Or just ask someone who works in the public school system (like my brother). He has a lot of interesting anecdotes to share.

Was going to reply to this stupid artical written by liberals of course but no need to now...you said it for me Wreck...thanks.

@Eddie

In my state, we have a Robin Hood law that takes all of the property taxes intended for school funding and redistributes it from the rich districts to the poor districts so all the schools are more or less funded equally. It hasn't made a damn bit of difference in the academic achievement. It's not about money...it's about fixing the attitude toward education.

Bob - that sound like educational socialism to me. That's where society is going, so why not school

Wreck. Would you mind applying for the new "Joe the Plumber" role for Mitt Romney and the republican party?

They could use a little honest mouthpiece like you. Just go out there and shout, "I speak for the Republican Party!" Make it nice and loud now, hear?

Make sure that everyone knows how racist, uninformed and backwards they are.

Have a nice day.

Minorities commit more crimes than whites, this is a solid, indisputable, verifiable, fact.

It sounds like alot of people hate facts. Usually it is the conservatives who hate the facts, but bring up race and the fact hating flipflops really quick. We,(the American people in the form of the government) have done all we can to level the playing field to the point where there is actually more opportunity for most poor minorities than most poor whites. What more are we supposed to do? What more can people possibly expect? The source of these numbers is the cultures of the minorities involved, plain and simple.

If Asians had been included in the study, would I be able to cry racism too?

I noticed wrecks post has more votes than all the detractors combined.

The reason a child is suspended from school is because they are being disruptive and causing trouble. Plain and simple. Get a clue people, stop the "it's because I'm black or hispanic" bulls**t. I have an idea......why not behave yourselves, work hard and get good grades. Make something of yourselves! Stop using the color of your skin as an excuse!!!

Maybe they face more disipline because they need more discipline.

Ignoring the fact that three quarters of black children come from a single parent home makes this study totally bogus. Also the exclusion of "Asians" as a minority group in the study. Typical NY Times, MSNBC, race baiting.

My son (white 6 yo) goes to a school that is about 80% black. He has been suspended from school once and suspended from the bus 3 times, all during a period of time when he started acting up a lot at school. He's all straightened out now, but just so people know - a white kid will get suspended if he acts up even if he's one of the few white kids in a school with mostly black students and mostly white staff!

rhahdhdh, I want to give you something to think about. When I was a kid growing up I went to mainly minority schools, all 90+%. As a white kid in a minority area sometimes misbehaviour is just self defense. Growing up in the poor urban area I did, white kids basically had 3 choices,

1. Be a victim.

2. Lose your identity and try to fit in to a culture that is not yours.

3. Be worse than you attackers.

My education was a disaster because I was busy being "one of those CRAZY white boys" instead of a victim or a wannabe like so many others, and, that worked for me then but, later when I moved away from all of that as a young adult, it was hard to shed that way of life, and I didn't, shed it until I spent several years in and out of prison.

When it came time for my oldest to start school, I moved out of the city, into a racially ,mixed rural area. Where my kids can experience diversity without being dominated by another culture. The way you raise your child is none of my business but I just can't help but suggest that you look a little closer at your sons behaviour and his school/surroundings.

JCB...

You are being far too honest...dangerously so. Urban fatherless birth rates should never be brought up in civilized society as part of a discussion on the educational disasters taking place in our cities.

Last year in New Haven, Connecticut there were 35 murders. 34 of the victims were black males. What percentage were born to single teenage moms ? What percentage did not even make it thru high school ? Did 'racism' have anything to do with any of these murders ?

When the children of single female high school dropouts become dropouts themselves...the problems escalate, as do the costs of dealing with those problems.

Anyone see a politician out there speaking honestly about this problem ? I don't think it is off base to say that President Obama should have been the right guy to stand up on this issue...but he simply took a pass on the whole matter. Someone above mentioned the efforts made by Bill Cosby to speak honestly about the terrible problems stemming from 'babies having babies'...in many circles, Mr. Cosby was reviled for his efforts, but basically he was ignored by those who most needed to heed his words very carefully.

So if a respected black entertainer like Bill Cosby can't speak to the issue and actually be heard...and a black president won't speak to the issue because he lacks the guts...where do we even get a glimpse of a light at the end of the tunnel ?

Recently, I was at the grocery store that is down the street from the local high school at lunch time. By the way, I live in a pedominantly minority area. The high school principal was behind me in line when he saw a group of African American students in the store and told them that they were not allowed to be off campus at lunch time and that they should get back to school. No other disciplinary action was taken. That same day my son, who happens to be caucasian, was suspended from school for being off campus at lunch time by the same principal (who also happens to be African American). In my experience, the caucasian students are actually held to a higher standard beacuse they "should know better" and the minority students are given a pass because we should "understand" when they get into trouble. Racism exists throughout.

livinginthewoods

Minorities commit more crimes than whites, this is a solid, indisputable, verifiable, fact.

....facts do not belong on MSNBC, my friend

....facts do not belong on MSNBC, my friend

I'm beggining to see that. I'm came here because CNN was way too far left but MSNBC isn't too much better. Is there any news source that is actually in the middle? I would rather put up with radical liberals than radical conservatives any day, just the lesser of two evils.

Eddie in Seattle

Yes taxing the lily white rich is really the answer. How about the hot chocolate black rich? Needless to say I find your post as racist as the two comments above. There are far more disturbing problems than curriculum in these schools. Behavior in general, lack of respect for teachers, administrators, and property are problems that keep most quality teachers in the "Lily White Suburbs" (to borrow a phrase from you) as opposed to areas that really could use them. Can you blame a teacher for wanting to be in a classroom where they don't have to fear being beaten, spit on, verbally abused, or ignored? Our society is appalled by the sub standard education these children get, but at the same time refuse to allow disciplinary measures that work to be used to keep control of those that are unruly or violent. It starts in primary education and continues all the way through High School. Race has little to do with it other than the fact that the numbers often mirror the crime demographics for an area. In order for multi-million dollar facilities and gold standard curriculum to work, there must be an atmosphere conducive to learning. When you have a group of students that are very disruptive and no other options to deal with them, the resources become wasted. This is why, in most cases, private schools out perform public schools hands down. Because they do not have to take everyone passed along, and they have disciplinary options that public schools do not, they can achieve that atmosphere conducive to learning that public schools struggle with. It isn't about race, it isn't about money, it is about attitudes. With out an attitude to succeed, problems will overwhelm any system.

@tony

You are highlighting many of the problems that the Black community faces but skipping the children and single parents whose children are respectful, finish High School, and graduate from a good University or College. I first met a young black male from my neighborhood 6 years ago when I was walking my dog and he was walking home from school. There were some older teenagers near him, he was small, around 10 and had a full backpack - I think that he was intimidated by the older boys. I sped up at bit, asked this child if he liked dogs, since I was walking the dog you see by my name, he gladly walked with us - I asked him if he liked school, etc - he did, and we had a very interesting conversation about history (Hispanic and Black). Fast forward to three years ago, our city had snow (we usually don't need to shovel). My doorbell rang and to my surprise - their he was - he had the day off from school and was shoveling for money. We shoveled together, so we could talk, he still comes to my house for chores that are difficult for me with RA - he is 16, he lives with his Aunt, whom he calls "Mom" because his real mother is a druggie and his father is deceased. He has an older sister. He is currently taking the bus to the University to finish High School - he will have this University's credits and a full scholarship when he graduates from High School at 16. He lived at the library because he didn't have a computer, I gave him one because I wasn't using it anymore - he was very thankful and we will be friends forever. His single parent Aunt - has managed to get both her sister's children into college. She is a factory worker, and was just laid off, he calls me from pay phones because they cannot afford any type of phone - his Aunt HAS made a difference in his life, she is a de facto single mother - he and his sister are the first in the family to go to college (the sister just graduated) - you cannot stereotype single mothers.... I have worked for the 3rd largest Public Housing Authority in the country and have seen single mothers whom I would be proud to have as my own. Their children are smart, polite and graduate from college - the mothers also get out of "the system" by saving money and working their fingers to the bone. A white mother is no better than a black mother and vice-versa - there are good and bad mothers in every culture and race.

First, where is there any scientific proof that the races are all exactly alike in behavior, or effectiveness at learning VERY different skills (Reading, Writing, Math, Science)?

There is no evidence of that.

It is simply scientifically possible that there is a predisposition to certain behaviors or abilities that is genetic in nature and common in a particular race.

We all know that skin color is different. So is average height and weight. Hair type and color as well as eye color. There are also differences in muscle distribution.

These are all differences that have a genetic component that can be quantified and the distribution of those traits is predictable based on race.

So now the part where people stick their fingers in their ears and don't want to know the truth:

The strongest likelyhood is that races are not the same when it comes to inherent behavior instincts and cognitive potential in various fields of study.

It's not the only factor, or even the strongest factor, but it is a factor.

We often forget that the various cultures of the world evolved both from place AND peoples. That is the genetic component that is one major reason that even with similar environments, you get radically different cultures.

I think people wish there were no differences in the races. But simply saying we are all 99.9% the same doesn't mean much since all dogs are 99.9% genetically the same. The disposition and cognitive abilities can still be radically different AND can be shown to be a characteristic of the breed.

The longer we avoid looking at the science on this, the less likely we are to be able to move on. Reality is not going to go away because we don't like it. You can make it illegal to say what I just wrote, but the genetic predisposition is still there, and with advances in technology, there is only a short time before these racially based genetic predispositions are proven as fact.

The question is: if it is proven that a particular race has better math aptitude than another or a better behavior instinct - are we prepared to accept it and use that knowledge - or do we still have to pretend that all races are the same? And if that is the case, will we be using the current progressive model of seeking equality of results by bringing the outliers down to the average instead of celebrating their differences?

The problem kids are being punished,If you want less black kids punished then teach them that they need to pay attention to the teachers at school and that they are there to learn.

First, where is there any scientific proof that the races are all exactly alike in behavior, or effectiveness at learning VERY different skills (Reading, Writing, Math, Science)?

There is no evidence of that.

History is the proof:

Middle East is the birth place of higher mathematics. The earliest evidence of Literature, writing, poetry has its home in Persian, Indian - Mediterranean areas.

Unfortunately, When history is recieted Europeans have a habit of saying "We" - mankind Built the Pyramids ... but say The English, Germans, French discovered this, that, or the other.

It wasn't until I actually started go to the local Library that I found out that despite all the propaganda about Newton, Bacon, all the Masters of Science, mathematics,, Algebra the foundations for European Renaissance was finding, rediscovering the "Lost" knowledge from "The East".

What was the Library of Alaxandra? For extra points, who burned it?

Who damaged the Sphinxs and why? For extra points, who b

First, where is there any scientific proof that the races are all exactly alike in behavior, or effectiveness at learning VERY different skills (Reading, Writing, Math, Science)?

There is no evidence of that.

who breached the Great Pyramid of Gaza, looking for gold and looted it?... for extra "master-level" points where is the largest collection of Mediterranean and Egyptian collections, in the world?

When your greatest claim to fame is Painting our/yourselves Blue, the Inquisition, fighting and resisting civilization- its kind of hard to claim superiority. ... Don' cha think?

livinginthewoods

You are dead wrong. You have never really researched your statement. If you did you'd know that whites are arrested more often than blacks, it has been this way since the 70's

Well, the liberals dominate the education industry, and apparently they're all racists based on this article. Just trying to keep the people down and on the entitlement plantation I guess.

Ken, you offer no more proof than I do. You are dead wrong. You have never lived your statement or seen the inside of a jail or prison. Obviously.

Never seeing the inside of a jail cell should be considered to be a positive thing !

Yes, staying out of prison should be considered a positive thing, the problem is the cultures that consider going to prison a right of passage for manhood. That is the very root cause of these statistics not the atrocities experienced by their ancestors.

Never seeing the inside of a jail cell should be considered normal.

Black Kettle...

You are correct...I'm sure there are some great moms in urban areas who, despite any odds against them, still do a fine job raising decent children. However the high school dropout rates in urban areas are into the 30's and 40's percentage-wise and that means that thousands and thousands of lost souls are mostly ready to accomplish nothing good in this world...and we both know how that ends up. It's like trying to only look at the good news of how many people survive a plane crash or a natural disaster, without spending much energy looking at those who perished.

And a large number of teenage girls having babies does tend to create another generation of teenage girls having babies. A few years back in a small city across the river from where I live, a 28 year old woman was arrested for beating her 14 year old daughter. There was a one year old baby in the house and the baby belonged to the 14 year old...which means that grandma became a grandma at about 27 years of age.

My wife and I were 30 years old when we had our first child. We wanted to be sure we were mentally and financially "ready" to raise a child. I don't think that should be a lot for a society to ask of it's citizens.

Yet our political leaders can barely bring themselves to discuss this problem, let alone do anything except keep throwing money on plans and ideas that rarely turn out to do any good at all.

Keep in mind that some of the black greatness claims are just to make blacks think better about themselves. The egyptians recorded that there was nothing past the headwaters of the nile but savages and cannibals but now "afrocentrism" counts egypts works as black and even says that blacks had electricity and airplanes thousands of years ago. Here are quotes from an afrocentric site that claim that instead of not having writing until after europeans had calculus blacks had writing 80K years ago so the 47% of illiterates in detroit should really feel bad.

Africans Invented Decimals, Multiplication, Trigonometry

Even before 77,000 BC when Africans invented writing, various African signs were used to indicate numbers. From Primitive Africans' elemental counting, measuring, and describing shapes of objects, their offspring used them in step-by-step reasoning and quantitative calculations to fashion the math science of structure, order, and relations.

What is it that intrigues you so much about Black Culture? I've seldom seen so many people mesmerized by a culture they claim to hate or at least dislike.

The coldest cut is to ignore people you dislike. Making career of finding reasons to feel abused by people who generally ignore you... just seems to weird.

solitary confinement is the punishment given to criminals as the worst treatment - short of execution.

Most religious groups, tribal groups, even historical societies felt that shunning or even banishment was the ultimate punishment, short of death. yet you look for things to complain about, even to the point of visiting Web sites which are focus on a culture you see as foreign and assume grandiosity above it s true worth.

In an all black school the grading curve is easy. I have thrown off the grading curve and blacks dont like it. In Kansas City the black inner city schools where given a blank check to improve but they got worse.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html Money And School Performance:
Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.