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Hutaree.com via AP file
Screen shot from a training video used by the Christian militia group Hutaree in March 2010. The group was allegedly preparing for a battle with the Antichrist, whom they believed would be supported by local, state and federal officials. Nine were arrested and charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then kill scores more by attacking a funeral using homemade bombs.
The election of President Barack Obama in 2008 triggered an explosion in the number of militias and so-called patriot groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center reported in its annual tally of such anti-government organizations.
There were 149 militias and patriot groups when Obama took office, compared to more than 1,200 today — an increase of 755 percent, the nonprofit civil rights organization reported.
"The increase has just been astounding," said Mark Potok, editor-in-chief of the SPLC report. "The reality is that many of these groups are becoming more and more fearful that Barack Obama will win the re-election. You can see the anger rising along with that fear."
The SPLC defines the "patriot" movement as made up of conspiracy-minded individuals who see the federal government as their primary enemy. The movement includes paramilitary militias as well as groups of "sovereign citizens," who believe they are not subject to federal or state laws, nor obligated to pay federal taxes, according to SPLC.
The center also reports a steady rise in the number of hate groups in America — from 604 in 2000, to more than 1,000 last year. Those include anti-gay groups, anti-Muslim groups, black separatists and "Christian Identity" groups, which hold racist and anti-Semitic views that overlap with neo-Nazi beliefs.
The spike in these groups can be attributed to a combination of factors, including the sluggish economy, radical propaganda and anxiety over the election of a black president, Potok said.
Potok said although many individuals involved in patriot militias are not criminals, a handful of these groups have been responsible for a significant amount of violence in recent years.
Government employees targeted
SPLC provides one of the few annual reports on militia or anti-government groups. The Federal Bureau of Investigation does not track militia groups unless they are alerted to violent or extremist activity, according to an agency spokesman.
"Some of these groups veer into violent extremism," said Frank Harrill, special agent in charge of the FBI’s office in Spokane, Wash., and spokesman for the Inland Northwest Joint Terrorism Task Force. "Where hate and ignorance and violence collide, that is where our interests lie."
Two militia groups have made headlines in recent years for allegedly hatching violent plots to target government employees.
Seven people from the Michigan-based Hutaree Christian militia are on trial for allegedly conspiring to ambush and kill a police officer. They allegedly plotted to follow up the ambush with an attack on the officer’s funeral procession in the hope of killing more officers, and thus sparking a revolt against the U.S. government. Recent evidence presented in trial included a recording made by an undercover FBI agent in which the militia’s leader, David Stone, 47, says he is going to "start huntin'" police soon. The seven have pleaded innocent, and argue that the "plot" was nothing but talk, protected by the First Amendment.
And in November four members of a Georgia-based militia, all in their 60s and 70s, were charged with plotting to buy explosives and the ingredients to make a deadly toxin to attack government officials. They are in custody awaiting trial.
But members of other militias say that exercising their constitutional right to bear arms does not mean they are committed to revolution.
Spokane-based militia member Ed LeStage, 59, denied that his group, the 63rd Battalion of Lightfoot Militia, which was listed on as an active militia group in the SPLC’s report, was a danger — unless, he said, "you're a communist or socialist who attacks us."
LeStage, a veteran to the patriot movement, said he believes the increased number of militias comes from U.S. citizens’ desire to restore the country to its constitutional roots. He also said that what he called President Obama’s intrusion on personal liberties also has driven growth in the movement.
"He’s been after our guns," LeStage said. "Obama’s been the best gun salesman there ever was."
From his home in eastern Washington, LeStage broadcasts weekly training videos to militia members across the country. Those videos — which include instruction on such things as drinking one’s own urine and scavenging for food — are meant to help members survive anarchy or economic collapse.
LeStage said he has been involved in militias and related groups for more than 20 years, including the Idaho Mountain Boys, a member of which was arrested in September 2002 for plotting to kill a federal judge and a police officer.
That member, Larry Raugust, served 77 months for possession and production of pipe bombs. Today, Raugust has a member profile on LeStage’s militia website, which has added more than 1,000 members since its launch last fall.
"(Raugust) is just a friend," LeStage said. "He doesn’t belong to our unit. He is a convicted felon."
LeStage explained that his militia requires each member to obtain a concealed weapons permit. As a felon, Raugust is not allowed to carry weapons, LeStage said.
The patriot movement first peaked in 1994, said Potok, the author of the SPLC report, in the aftermath of deadly confrontations at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992 and Waco, Texas in 1993, where anti-government groups came under siege by federal authorities.
Membership then dropped sharply during President George W. Bush’s two terms before rebounding in late 2008 after the election of Obama, which created a backlash that included "several plots to murder Obama," according to SPLC.
The numbers of those groups have continued to grow, jumping from 824 in 2010 to 1274 this year, the SPLC said.
'Sovereign citizen' movement
The ailing economy also helped fuel a huge expansion in a subset of the larger Patriot movement — the so-called "sovereign citizens" movement. Followers generally believe they do not have to pay federal taxes or follow most laws. The SPLC estimates some 300,000 Americans are involved in the movement.
In September, the FBI issued a bulletin to law enforcement officials that called "sovereign citizens" a growing domestic threat due to some members’ belief that they can use armed force to resist police.
The bulletin noted that sovereigns have killed six law officers since 2000. In one of the more deadly clashes, a shootout in West Memphis, Ark., in 2010 left four people dead including two officers. Terry Nichols, convicted as a conspirator in the Oklahoma City bombing, was a sovereign citizen.
In 2010, a shootout with a member of the group in West Memphis, Arkansas ended with four people dead, including two policemen.
Last month, a Texas man who said he was a sovereign citizen was sentenced to 35 years in prison for repeatedly firing at a police officer trying to arrest him.
A Washington state man, David R. Myrland, was sentenced in December to 40 months in prison for threatening to "arrest" the mayor of Kirkland and other local officials "with deadly force."
Investigators said Myrland sent an e-mail to the mayor warning that "50 or more concerned Citizens will enter your home and arrest you. Do not resist, as these Citizens will be heavily armed."
"As sovereign citizens' numbers grow, so do the chances of contact with law enforcement and, thus, the risks that incidents will end in violence," the FBI said at the time.
From LeStage’s point of view, though, the risk comes from the top of government.
If Obama is re-elected this year, "we will probably lose our republic," he said. "We will probably turn into another socialist country."
On his website www.modernmilitiamovement.com, some forum members have raised even more dire concerns about the fall's elections.
"Nov. the 8th should be the start of the next civil war," a member with the username "Thunder" wrote in January. "May GOD guide us safely."
The Murrow News Service is provides local, regional and statewide stories reported and written by journalism students at the Edward R. Murrow College of Communication at Washington State University. Msnbc.com’s James Eng and Kari Huus, and NBC's Pete Williams contributed to this report.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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The Tea Party and the Patriot Movement are both horribly racist. Then libelous journalists have to rant about assault weapons and militias being threats to the state. Don't think of militias as Specs Ops wannabees with scary plastic guns. Think of the militia as a neighborhood watch with teeth. Now the Hutaree guys and others like them are domestic terrorists and certainly far from being anything approaching patriots. It's simple; patriots love their countries and organize and equip themselves to do their part, thus forming a militia. Domestic terrorists hate their country and use the cloak of patriotism and morality as a guise which they use to excuse their evil deeds. What about my Tovarishchi and I, who are Socialists, with many of them being immigrants from the former USSR or the Russian Federation. Surely, just because we want to protect the community and do our part for civic safety, we are racist psychopaths.
Uh huh , you can't just say that,, you have to also yell, "Bush did it".
When ever you handouters run out of facts but still want to help the inept liar in the white house, you scream racist.
You need some new material, that constant copying out of the LEFTY MANIFESTO, is getting boring.
"
Uh huh , you can't just say that,, you have to also yell, "Bush did it".
When ever you handouters run out of facts but still want to help the inept liar in the white house, you scream racist.
You need some new material, that constant copying out of the LEFTY MANIFESTO, is getting boring."
Good point. BUSH created the PATRIOT ACT, suspended civil liberties, assassinated American citizens, got us into needless wars, and inflamed large chunks of the world against us, and infuriated our allies.
Now, is it impossible for a Leftist Liberal Socialist to love the United States and be a patriot? I own a couple guns (SVT-40 and an AKM semiautomatic clone), have an NRA membership, an support the second amendment as the right to KEEP and BEAR ARMS, and I don't just mean sporterized Mauser 98K's. I mean pretty much anything short of WMD's and ICBM's. I can tolerate criticism of Obama. I have my own disagreements with him. I don't think he is perfect or a messianic figure. However, I find criticism backed by the belief that he is not a U.S.-born citizen, and that he is a Socialist Muslim bent on destroying our "heritage" and "Christian way of life" to be just plain bigotry. If you are to criticize a political opponent or someone you do not agree with, you rationale and supporting arguments had better boil down to more than "he looks different from me". Disagree with his tax policy, his immigration policy, his Health Care Reform, his environmental policy, his reproductive rights policy, his LGBT rights policy, his military policy, his defense policy, his economic policy, his urban policy, his educational policy, his labor policy, his agricultural policy, but don't go after him because he doesn't fit your notions of what is "American".
Thats just it, his policies are un-American!
I'm pretty sure this is hilarious. While I should be fearful that one of these freaks will blow something up, like in Oklahoma City, I can't help but laugh at the idiotic rhetoric and paranoid behavior. Remember how the gun and ammunition companies made tremendous profits during the 2008 election? Did the big, bad boogyman take away everybody's guns then? Oh, yes, I know...we should all be soooo afraid that we are being forced to have health care at some point...Yikes! The last thing we all need in this country is healthy, financially-solvent citizens. Be afraid...be VERY afraid!
Page 123 of the LEFTY MANIFESTO, when faced with a situation or statement you don't like but, have no way to rebutt it, ridicule, ridicule, ridicule.
Nancy, You were instructed not to cite or reference your manifesto,we called it lefty to fool everyone, it is forbidden, now the lefties know what is on page 123. You are assigned four hours of goose step and 300 tea party mantras.
Who's more paranoid? The citizen who legally bears arms, or the religious fanatic who creates who own religious Army to battle the United States Government?
Seriously, I'm surprised that it was physically possible for you to type that sentence. As a human being, you you are born with the ability to employ rational thinking, you should explore this option every now and then.
The SPLC is a bigger threat to this country than any militia. Groups like this are rotting the country from the inside.
One sentence in the article really jumped out at me, about how these idiots think that killing a few policemen will spark an uprising against the government. Really?? How is that even remotely logical or rational?? Does anyone remember Timothy McVeigh?? He thought blowing up a federal building would bring about revolution. Pogo was so right!! "We have met the enemy, and he is us"...
Not all of these militia sorts are crazies. The way that things are going there will be unrest and probably active violence. Look at what is happening in Greece. It will spread and it will probably happen here if we don't get our finances in order and I just don't see that happening. If things do go to hell it's safer to be part of a group that is prepared and will watch your back than to try to go it alone. I would imagine that most of these groups are primarily about self defense, but undoubtedly there are people who believe that the best defense is a good offense. Those groups scare me. The others are harmless.
You know, we went through something called "The Great Depression" without everyone grabbing guns and shooting it out over stuff.
Surprisingly, during that time Americans pulled together and shared what they had. It was kinda a feeling that "we're all in this together". You know, "add a bit more water to the soup Ma, 'cause we got one more mouth to feed".
Are we that selfish as a society that we are gonna kill each other over the soup, rather than add a bit more water to it?
Is that what we've become?
During that time, you didn't have half of the people trying to force the other half to pay their way.
A lot of Americans did pull together back then. Undoubtedly quite a large number of them will pull together again if they have to, but times and attitudes are different now. A lot of people believe that they are owed and if others have things that they want then that other person must have gotten those things unfairly. They feel that it is their right to take what is rightly theirs - using force if necessary.
If times get tough and if I am able to I will freely share what I can with others who are in need, though I may ask them to do some odd jobs to earn what they get from me. That is only fair and it's good for everyone involved. On the other hand I will defend myself and my family if people try to use force to take what I have scrimped and saved and put away for a rainy day.
This article confirms why I long ago stopped being involved in any kind of christian church....ALL of them preach "love" and practice hate, bigotry and racism. Certainly not all individual christians, some in my own family who I love dearly, but the practice of christianity the way these groups do it make me glad, and confirms for me, why it's seriously flawed the way individuals interpret it.
Right now there are 280,000,000 guns in a nation full of fearful, over-medicated, under-medicated, drug and alcohol-addicted, paranoid citizens.
But that's no problem, right?
Oh Danny boy Mexico has some of the toughest gun laws in the world.
Ask a Mexican how that is going for them?
pssst Eric Holder is guilty of trafficking in assault rifles into Mexico. The AG knew about Fast and Furious.
Want to get mad about guns get mad about that.
Danny,actually,in your sarcasm you have spoken the truth.
Not to worry Danny, the leftys aren't worth shooting.
yes indeed Victor 90210... but keep a warm ember near your heart for the arms sent to Nicaragua, the training and hardware we gave the Taliban to fight Russia, the arms we sold/gave Saddam Hussein, the weapons we send to Pakistan.... the story we don't know yet--- you know, maybe we just don't know what the F we are doing a lot of the time. Maybe we fail in our responsibilities to work for peace, when at the same time we trade billions in arms/cash/drugs between nations. Just a thought.
When Obama quits spending and quits trying to eliminate Religion and States Rights and Personal Individual Freedoms we hold dear................. The Militias will go away. Until that Day, Join the Modern Militia Movement.
http://www.modernmilitiamovement.com
U still here fearmonger? Go lay down by your dish! Noone is listening to your lunicy!!!!
On the contrary handouter a very large number of people are listeniong
I find it offensive that the terms Patriot groups and Hate groups were somehow tied together to become the same thing.
The FBI fights against the NYPD's efforts to investigate extremists Muslims.
The Feds sue any state that tries and enforce immigration laws or pass voter initiated ones.
The Feds are attempting to sidestep the Second Amendment of the Constitution by passing International "small arms treaties" through the UN.
Obama signs into law on New Year's Day a defense bill that takes away due process from American citizens, allowing the government to detain any American citizen for an indefinite amount of time.
And people wonder why this reaction occurs.
Have no doubts, anyone who speaks against them is placed in a data base. Nixon did it and he was not half as power hungry or corrupt as the Marxist professor.
For the sake of your children open your eyes whether Democrat or Republican.
"The FBI fights against the NYPD's efforts to investigate extremists Muslims."
Do you have any proof of this?
Where were you when your politicians created the Patriot Act? Stop living the paranoia and you will enjoy life more.
GOLFSLEFT--------- Read a news paper?
Nancy, "news paper"?
These groups have been around for decades, and every time the right wing starts harping on the government as the enemy, they get empowered. I'm sorry, but lots of this was spurred on my Palin and McCain and the Tea Party 4 years ago, and then it gets out of control with real whack jobs. This is Timothy McVeigh all over again. And ya know who helped get him going? Newt Gingrich and Pat Buchanan.
You just cannot whip up anti-government, anti-secular, anti-foreigner sentiment without empowering extremist conservative militias that will let a lone wolf blow up a building: It was Oklahoma City in the 90s, and we don't know where it will be in the next year or so, but it will happen.
Shame on our public figures for using these people and manipulating their emotions.
These are not militias, which are supposed to be protective. These are armed hate groups, - paranoids with guns. I fear them far more than anything our government might do to me. I expect my government to protect us from them.
What if they take down our government bit by bit? Will you just watch.
I don't expect my government to protect me. We have to protect ourselves. I got my 2x4 ready with nails and I'm swinging.
If these so called militias can't tolerate living in a country where the majority elects a president they don't like (and we all know it is because of the color of his skin) than they, too, are more than welcome to emigrate (that means leave this country, to all you slack jawed knuckle-dragging tea-baggers, who never got beyond the third grade). I did not like it when Bush II was elected twice, yet I stayed and tried to change things for the better. And I did not need a gun to do it. If you don't like the system of government we have, you can change it without resorting to violence.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the
people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendmentduring Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
This is what happens when you mess with "Freedom of Religion" & Obama is the only President in History that has. Because w/out "Freedom of Religion" nothing else matters.
Say what? Where? When???? Show me this crap!!!!
Jeez, you can't read eh, it has been all over the news for days
I am only for militia groups if they are only for protection, not for hate or terrorist acts.
People, the end of the world is not near. But the terror is coming to our backyards in both forms. From the government and from these people that may take over. We may not have what people call weapons but we do have forks, kitchen knives, brooms, shovels, saws, hammers, sledge hammers.....
We have to think about our future and never let any form of terrorism take over us. I have been ready in my mind about bad times. I may not be fully prepared but I am ready to act upon it to protect my family and my country. I don't have weapons but I do have tools and know how to use them. If my neighbor goes down I may go down. But if I help my neighbor and another neighbor and others we can all band together to stop whatever terror may come.
Remember how the jews just stood in line waiting for death. Poor them. I will fight to my death for freedom. Go Braveheart!
Black Panthers, where are you. You know all these militias are mostly white people. And they are going to attack Obama. Help us
Hispanic/Latinos, you better get ready too for the white christian militia groups. Get the essay and all the gangbangers ready to fight. Help us. Calling out the Mexican Cartels.
By the way, I am white, latino, european, jewish, and black. I am everything for everyone. I will also try to be muslim and asian soon and add those to my belt. If I left any race out sorry.
People unite to stop extreme government power and to stop crazy militia (terrorist) groups!
You're afraid your handouts are going away, aren't you?
What I find hilarious is the majority of posters here will lambaste some old men playing soldier in the woods, and applaud the filth and anarchy espoused by the OWS crowd.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Say you did what???
What about all the Radical terrorists that Obama hung around with....after all he said, "you will know me by whom I surround myself with"....watch in the next few weeks Obama is FINALLY going to be vetted and tapes of him is going to expose him for who he really is...what he really believes and how he really plans to destroy our economy and America. These tapes are real and are being exposed. Obama has ALOT of explaining to do!
What a bunch of b. s.! You must be one of those terrioristestes i am hearing so much about?????
yea we know, you'll be spouting the same garbage after he is re-elected, the tapes, the tapes, what a moron
When you have an entire political class spending the 1970s and 1980s telling Americans that their own government is evil, its no wonder that when the other political class wins the election (as in Clinton in 1992), they start living the paranoia and run off to form these militias. They did it then and it got us Oklahoma City, Tim McVeigh, and a whole screed of people willing to kill you because they think you are evil.
So is it any wonder these people make a return when another Democratic wins high office? No it is not. These people are seditionists and need to be treated like the potential murderous traitors they are. Do not treat them with kid gloves. Do not molly-coddle them on their "rights", put the terrorist provisions of the Patriot Act (which none of them complained about when their political class created it) right smack on them and allow them to enjoy a nice 6x10 cell. It will make us all safer.
Sir,
You too must be Anti-American....we have the 2nd amendment for a reason
read it sometime or here I'll make it easy for you.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms , shall NOT be infringed.
Tax revolt for freedom!
I once saw that slogan written on a cell block wall in a Federal prison.
That is because the idiot that tried it went at it alone. Need a mass of people to stop paying taxes for it to be affective and keep people from going to prison.. They cant throw all of us in prison. At least not without completely collapsing the economy.
One could never convince these militia members that they are a bunch of ignorant cowards. They operate like pack animals. They call themselves Christians and claim that they want to save America. But they always seem to plan on killing people, either police officers or government workers. Their hatred goes beyond racial lines because many in their target group are white. Their not good strategists because they're always caught before they can execute their ill-conceived paramilitary operations. One quote in the article is that the President is after their guns while acknowledging that Obama is the best salesman for guns - ever. How can both be true? And yet, that militiaman is someone's leader. For anyone who is inclined to support these guys, ask yourself this question - "Would I want my children to live in a country that is fashioned after those militias?" If your answer is "yes" then may I suggest that you join them in the woods and sip a cup of your own savory urine.
...........and how do you obtain your knowledge of all you say?
...........and who is planning Paramilitary Operations?
Yes you and your children do live in a country that was fashioned by and from the blood of militias did you actually read a history book in school? What do you think the minutemen were? It was the american militias (rebels) that caused the boston tea party and fought for freedom from the King of England. It's not only Christians you basically show pure ignorance and lack of knowledge with your comments As far as the comment about Obama being a gun salesmen again you show ignorance. His wanting to take guns away is what fuels this current boom in gun sales. do you understand that 1+1 = 2 or doesn't your mind work this way? Anyway the people that kill police officers and government workers are commonly known as terrorist. and criminals you fail to see a difference probably as you fail to see the difference that there are bad people and criminals in our police departments and Government and every other walk of life. Bad seeds exist everywhere! But denounce 300,000 militiamen because of a handful of whack jobs. Let me guess though are you so hard on so called muslims? Because they kill and terrorize far more then Christians do and they also want to probably take over america and put all of us under Shira type laws! Ok you know why the bad crazy ones are usually caught because the ones who are sane usually turn them in. The militia is around for when things get out of control and the Government quits on the laws of the Constitution. The main idea behind the militia is that they won't be needed but if they are needed then be thankful that there are those that will fight and die for the same reason's that American Patriots have always lived and died for and that is FREEDOM. Yes even uneducated imbaciles like you deserve the freedom to spew your mindless rabble and rhetoric.
Dean, considering that the Constitution grants us the right to bear arms and only a Constitutional amendment can take that right away, please explain in simple detail that I can understand how Obama wants or even can to take away your or anyone's guns.
Second, don't confuse the militias of yesteryear with the clowns of today. Fighting for freedom is not the same as fighting for hate's sake. Even a mental midget such as yourself should be able to see the difference. Regarding the paramilitary operation of which I spoke, according to the article, did not one group plan an operation to assassinate policie officers during a funeral procession? Was that plan not thwarted by federal agents?
The reason why such groups are so successful at recruiting idiots like you is because they know to aim for your fears and prejudices; your intellect is too small a target.
What the government does is put rules, regulations and restrictions on w/e it wants to control, ban or make illegal and then taxing accordingly. This is how the government, over the decades, has gained more and more control over our lives. It is the progressive movement. One example is how they made marijuana illegal. The government made an amendment requiring doctors to have a license to prescribe marijuana, but the government made so many hoops to jump through and made licensing so expensive that it was nearly impossible to obtain marijuana legally thus making marijuana virtually illegal. The people just fell into this norm and that is how it is with all law we live by. Well most laws anyway.
I need an ID to buy a gun, but not to vote? Chanting "USA" is now a racist act? Got MILITA? Sign me up!!
http://www.modernmilitiamovement.com
don't judge them by a few crazy's
It's funny that people seem to forget that the militias are the ones that founded and wrested away from England what we now called these United States. The second amendment was created because of an understood need that the people have rights that can not be superseded by an unscrupulous Government. Obama has been trying very hard to rid us of our weapons and accept Government as the final word who will dictate and control the way we live from Health Care through welfare. Take from the haves give to the have nots. Capitalism and Democracy has run it's course the Government is beginning to take a stance that is more controlling then ever. If the Constitution needs to be re-written in doing so well its only paper (like our money) to them. It seems like its time to try the failed system of socialism and put everyone in line with the Government. What used to be called freedom fighters are now labeled and listed as Terrorist and or criminals. A handful of these people are criminals and use the militia as a front for personal and or group agendas and propaganda. "Very similar to the Government!" Lets not forget what makes this country such a threat to other countries with aspirations to possibly invade is the fact that the common citizen is armed. In Europe the governments are free to lead their people as lambs to slaughter because they have no such rights. As far as I am concerned the militias are ok they have bad apples as does our Government, Police, and every other group that is sworn to defend and protect not only the common citizen but yes sworn to protect the constitution and test the laws set forth by it! Yes I am Christian but I don't think the Greek Orthodox are considered Christian Extremist, yes I own a gun, yes I have a permit to carry. Yes I believe in the the United States and the Constitution. Yes I support freedom I support law I detest criminals however Criminals and lawlessness come in all shapes and sizes, yes even the Government is filled with criminals who want to steal your rights, steal your guns, steal away your property. The militia is the thin line thats overall goal is to defend the rights for those that can't or for even those who simply and blindly trust the government to do it all for them. It would be great if we didn't need the militias in fact its the hopes and prayers of millions including most milita's that we don't. But just for one second think what if we did?
I dont see militias as a threat.The idea of a militia is to keep the government and its power in check.
What the article talks about is a small number of nut jobs with strange thinking.All the talk about people being racist.Ive seen it from every race.To bad the country dosent teach kids to be proud as one group,americans. And knock off the hyphen name thing.
The patriot act was bad enough and now we have NDAA,and drones flying over the usa? I want a new president with fresh thinking,i like Ron Paul but i dont see him winning and think Romney well get the nod,i feel he should ask Ron Paul to be vice president with certain guarantees of things he can work on.So his votes go to Romney instead of splitting the vote.