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NASA file
Snow cover lingered in the Great Lakes region on Feb. 16, 2008, as shown by the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA's Terra satellite.
Great Lakes ice coverage declined an average of 71 percent over the past 40 years, according to a report from the American Meteorological Society.
The amount of decline varies year to year and lake to lake, according to the report's lead researcher, Jia Wang, an ice research climatologist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory in Ann Arbor, Mich.
Wang’s report said that based on Coast Guard scanning, satellite photos and other research from 1973 to 2010, ice coverage dropped most on Lake Ontario, 88 percent; the second-largest loss was on Lake Superior, at 79 percent.
The smallest decline, 37 percent, was on Lake St. Clair, a lake between Lakes Erie and Huron that was also included in the study.
The study doesn’t include the current winter, but satellite photos show that only about 5 percent of Great Lakes surface froze over this winter, the Detroit Free Press said. That’s down from years such as 1979, when there was as much as 94 percent ice coverage. On average, about 40 percent of the surfaces freeze over, the newspaper said.
Wang told WBEZ-FM in Chicago that diminished ice coverage speeds wintertime evaporation, reducing the lakes’ water levels, which can spur increased and early algae blooms, damage water quality, and accelerate erosion as more shoreline is exposed to waves.
Wang told the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper that natural climatic variables such as El Nino, La Nina play as much a role in the ice decline as a warming global climate.
"We are seeing the impact of global warming here in the Great Lakes -- but the natural variability is at least as large a factor," Wang said.
Wang said global climate change and regional climate patterns are competing over the Great Lakes.
The Great Lakes, scientists say, contain about 20 percent of the world's fresh water supply and cover 94,000 square miles in two countries.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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Okay. Deny it. Criticize MSNBC for publishing it. Debunk the author. Then drive away in your SUV.
We going to attack this crap or just let it ride?
I'll let you decide... too many of us are tired of arguing.
The author gives natural processes their due, but insists that global warming is contributing. Is HE the fool?
Yes, I drive an SUV. It keeps my tools safe, and dry. The 4 wheel drive keeps me from getting stuck when at muddy job sites. I think the only one who needs debunking here is you.
How come he is "the fool" ?
He stated that natural processes, are occurring, and that global warming is continuing from pollution as well.
There is a fool, but it is not him.
Read my post again. We're on the same side. I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear. Sorry.
If we're counting polluting cars here does a Honda Fit or Chevy Cavalier count?
i prefer to look at the elite liberals who are raking in the cash behind the church of global warming. look at them fly in their personal jets from summer home to winter home to wherever they feel like. the great liberal hypocrisy.
Marc it is none of your business what kind of vehicle I drive, what kind of light bulb I install or whether I choose paper or plastic bags when I buy groceries. If you want to pretend you are saving the planet by doing these things fine, my hat is off to you and you have my blessings. But stop the preachy condescension and stay out of the rest of our lives.
I think he is referring to people who think it is cool to drive around inthe biggest thing you can find who have no real use for it & not people who need large vehicles to do their job. I'm a former mining exploration surveyor/field engineer & drove hardcore 4-wd trucks & beat the crap out of them to get the job done, but my personal vehicle has always been something that gets good milelage. Hate throwing away money on something I just need to get from point A to Point B. Bigger vehicles are safer in a accident only if the other vehicle is smaller. If your driving a 60 ton M1A2 Abrams and smack into a Chevy S-10 at 60 mph, no big deal. Smack into another 60 ton M1A2 doing 60 mph....zero safety advantage.
The earth has been warming and cooling since its creation. The idea that we have more effect on this planet than volcanos, earthquakes, asteriods, solar cycles or shifts in the axis of the planet, is rediculous. Tired of this sky is falling mentality. Especially when nut job environmentalist would destroy our economy in some misguided attempt to save the planet from what warming? 40 yrs ago these nuts were saying the earth was cooling and we might be going into an iceage. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Sebastian-2869791-
Yeah it is his business & everyone else's too. We don't live independently of each other on separate planets. You suck down more than your own share of water, then your neighbors have got a serious issue with you that needs to absolved. Small differences in behavior, multiplied by millions/billions makes a big a difference.
You want to buy some bottom land in Florida? I have an investment opportunity for you.. .a bridge just came up for sale. It is in a prime location in New York. Oh, by the way, the mother ship landed in Havana and all of you Liberals can go home now!
@cactuscat - Insults are the last hope of a person who knows they've been beaten. Enjoy some cold hard FACTS:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://climate.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/
Now there's some cold hard facts ....
climate change deniers are a lot like smokers who don't quit even when they're told they're developing cancer
If those of us with the means too will just drive around needlessly in our Yukons and Expeditions burning as much fuel as we possibly can and can afford, perhaps we can get the ice completely off of the lakes and we could then winter there instead of Cancun. I'm going to put old and bad plugs in my Yukon so my fuel mileage will drop some more and I feel if another 1000 of us or so did the same thing we could have this done (lakes deiced completely in February) in a few years if the "scientists" are to be believed. But we're really going to have to work at it because soon we will have to overcome the reversing of the other natural weather cycles, making it colder again as the weather pendulum shifts. My local gasoline retailer is going to love me, I support the economy, I help to get that nasty ice of the lakes, I've really never been more proud to be an evil, self-serving, greedy American than I am today.
climate change agenda promoters are a lot like those people who are themselves miserable and feel they need direction and purpose in their life, so they answer an ad in the back of Rolling Stones Magazine, and join a cult and allows themselves to be convinced they will be happier, if only they can make themselves feel guilty and spend additional money they can't afford in buying crap that has zero to do with anything in the grand scheme of things.
If you really want to be a part of some religion, perhaps have a look at the church in your neighborhood or convert to Islam. I understand at least there you can be respected for your beliefs, right or wrong.
marc
lpease come here .....my tree needs a hug...................
alan
my 98 cavalier gets 32 mpg and its got 250k plus not a chevy man but damn !
while i am at it my 67 mustang got better milage, think about that folks.
My original post was basically a "flip" post aimed at our apathy. Based on the posts that followed, our denial and apathy are alive and well.
@STexan - Based on your last two posts I'd say you are in desperate need of attention and ranting on the internet is the only way you can get it. We've got 98% of scientists and piles of proof on our side, what do you have?
doyourhomework,America!
like YOUR pres?
Yep. Just want you to know STexan; you don't speak for all Texans. Global warming is a reality. Humans contribute to it. Look at the science, and think of your kids, and your kids' kids. If we don't clean up our acts, they are going to curse our names.
IA.ScooterTramp - He's your president too, whether you like it or not. I hope you enjoy 4 more years of Obama, I sure will.
Ever notice how the people who are against the notion of climate change are often quite bitter and cynical people who want everyone to "go down with them"? Yeah, me too.
Besides, using more gasoline does not help our economy. In fact, it weakens it since you are wasting money that could be spent elsewhere. And yes, diverting gasoline waste to other purchases also helps gasoline companies since gasoline is in most of your plastics.
I'll stick to my '68 GMC 4x4 that gets about 9 mpg, I open up the 4 barrels and flip Al gore the bird as I haul ass down the freeway. I don't think he can see me from his jet though.
tim,
i served did you? so of course i know whom i served ... the USA AND HER PEOPLE. like it or not , as for Obama and his rhetoric, are you kidding me? if he is re-elected the "executive privilege" pen will be the most overused and abused instrument in history, ....think about it you bunch of lib morons...... he dint listen to the people... or his own party for that matter for three YEARS, what in the wold makes you think he will forward YOUR cause no matter what it may be, when hes a "lame duck" ...get a friggin clue.....oh i regress you vote along the party, race, religion lines,....... i just wasted my time.
Really?-1739510
GOOD JOB KUDOS TO YOU SIT
There are perfectly good reasons to develop alternative energy sources that have nothing to do with climate change. Oil is hard to find, messy to extract, dangerous to transport, messy to refine, and messy to burn. Coal is dangerous to extract and even messier to burn. Natural gas extraction can contaminate ground water, although it does burn much more cleanly.
Pollution control is every bit as important as energy generation. I like clean air and water. And I like not having to buy oil from the Middle East and Venezuela even more.
Buy a insurance policy you cheap skate. People are paying for communication time, game time and music, smoke cigarettes and buy energy drinks and can't pay for their own health coverage. That is what this is about. If you are disabled or needy you will have a umbrella. Would you rather pay higher costs for yourself and pay for many that can get rid of a vice and buy some insurance.
Global warning is uninformed people who describe factual events because a generation before them erroneously saw a cold spell. Buy your health insurance insurance policy.
A MSNBC article earlier today on Keystone Pipeline. Are you being misled?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46689167/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/#.T1tL13nGA4l
I do not believe that we have enough data to prove that global warming is real. Our scientific methods have been used over a meager 100 years. Would the melting of the glaciers that created the great lakes fall into the category of global warming? I grew up in the great lake state. If the lake doesn't freeze, it evaporates, turns to snow, and falls back to the earth. The only way that water leaves the GL watershed is if it is pumped outside the region. The GW phenomenon is a Democratic political agenda as much as big oil is Republican. I believe that we should strive to be economically "friendly" but it isn't going to happen overnight. Those commercials where the guy standing at the pump is envious of the guy "unplugging" his car makes me sick. Where the hell do people think the power comes from? Wind energy? A bigger joke. We are sitting on enough natural fuels, yes carbon based, to last for generations. We put people back to work and get this economy headed into the right direction by taking advantage of what we have at home. We use hydrocarbons to bridge us to future technologies so that we can become lean and "green". You don't break the heart and soul of the US and global economies by using the GW argument to justify a political agenda.
But Really?, we've been waiting since the 70s, when it first became apparent to what degree oil holds us hostage, for the private sector to take the initiative but it's not happening. I don't want to live in a polluted environment until companies decide it's worthwhile for them to start developing something else.
I find it hilarious that the people who's brains are all foxed up from too much propaganda are so willing to believe that Al Gore and Leo DiCaprio are up at the north pole melting the icecaps with their zippo's to try and con America out of a buck or two but yet they can't see that the oil companies and the Saudis have been conning us out of trillions for decades. America's wealth has been transferred to the very country's the wingnuts claim to hate the most and mainly because they are too stupid to see who the REAL con men are. There are 2 trillion barrels of oil left underground and at an average future price of $100 a barrel that comes out to $200 trillion dollars. I think that is more than enough money to make the owners of that oil LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH TO KEEP THE STATUS QUO.
There are trade-offs for everything. Hydro-carbon based energy pollutes, no question. Wind energy cannot sustain the demands of our power grid. Solar energies have their limitations as well. I agree that the private sector is not going to volunteer to switch to green technology. What is the financial incentive? However, do we leave it up to the government to mandate a change? That has worked real well over the past 3+ years. The Energy Secretary was quoted, "We need to get the price of gasoline on par of that in Europe...." When the article was written, the price of a gallon in the EU was $7.00 - $9.00. That stance is the government trying to shove "green" solutions down our throats holding the economy as a hostage. There is no easy solution. I say concentrate the risk, go nuclear to provide electricity to compress hydrogen.
Breathe in, Breathe out, experience what is true for you. Find the climate changing? Wondering what that means for yourself, your children and the future? How compassionate! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49z3cheFN20
I'm almost 62 and can remember the bitter cold, delivering the Cleveland Press in 1962 thru 1965. When the lake froze, it would get really cold and the wind would just howl. Maybe nice to have milder winters but here in Valdosta, Georgia we just got out of extreme drought. Texas got it a lot worse. The jet stream dipped over Eastern Europe this winter instead of North America; what next? It is my understanding that the current 'period' has been unusually calm from a geological and meteorological point of view. It could be that we are headed into a more active period which could quite possibly be partially or even mostly of our own making. I haven't heard about the deep water methane hydrate deposits for a long time. That could cause a major tipping point a few degrees from now. The weight of the ice that is melting may have consequences for earthquakes and vulcanism, All of that fresh water flowing into the oceans has already had unexpected consequences in terms of the speed at which the glaciers calve. We seem to be finding ourselves in the unenviable position of trying to explain why our predictions fall so far short of the reality that is unfolding. It just isn't human nature to react until after the crisis has begun. And that, my friends, does not bode well for the survival of the species. Guns and ammunition are flying off the shelves... Katrina on steroids if something major does surprise us. If you survive the first year, you might just be around for a while, if you can live without all the technology we have gotten used to.
So what is "normal" ice cover on the Great Lakes? Do we even have 100 years of good data?
America uses over 8000 barrels of oil each day. If we stopped every single gasoline burning vehicle on the road tomorrow, we would still need over 5000 barrels of oil each day. Most of this oil is used to make other products that use plastics and other substances that come from oil. So if you really want to save the planet from oil, throw away just a bought every product in your house including your appliances, funiture, carpet, plumbing, fixtures, shingles and wiring. Don't forget to trash that smartphone and you won't even have to ask yourself, paper or plastic? Welcome back to the 1800's.
Meanwhile the polar ice caps on Mars are also melting. Mars's climate is also warming along with other planets. I bet it's not Martian made climate change either.
"Milder" Winters may sound nice, but unfortunately when there isn't much ice on the lakes, the surrounding regions tend to get a lot of lake effect snow. Without the ice, the dry Winter air draws enormous amounts of water from the lakes through evaporation. That makes lake effect snows, but it also lowers water levels significantly.
I think people tend to disregard this as nothing really all that important, but note the sentence in the article where it points out that the Great Lakes amount to 20% of the world's fresh water source. That is a very significant amount of what is available and this single biggest source is beginning to dry up. The lack of icing has a lot to do with that as noted above.
The diminishing sources of fresh water are becoming a real worldwide problem. The Great Lakes are just one example. Disappearing glaciers are also another source that is diminishing. Sure this stuff has happened before in the history of the world, but we didn't have 7 billion people living on it then either. We aren't about to run out of water tomorrow, but it is a serious threat and it is getting worse. Environmentalists have been talking about this for years, but the warnings have for the most part gone unheeded. We are getting closer and closer to this becoming a real crisis and it will happen fairly quickly. We yearly contaminate billions and billions of gallons of our fresh water making it undrinkable. The efforts to keep us supplied with our addiction to oil, also take a real toll on fresh water too, both in water used and water contaminated.
A lot of people may look at this story and blow it off as no big deal, but they're not looking at the big picture.
I remember back in the mid 70's, the thinking was, the earth was heading into a new ice age. Cities like Buffalo NY and all along the great lakes were being covered with 20+ ft of snow. Snow was everywhere and cities feared that the snow piles would never melt before the next winter came. Soon talks began of covering the north pole with miles of black plastic to help capture the sun's heat.
The more the lakes are ice free, there is more surface area for the winds blowing across the lakes to pick-up water vapor. That in turn becomes more snow and/or rain fall, which drains back into the lakes.
In 1815 there was a massive volcanic eruption in the south pacific. In the following year, there was wide spread starvation in Europe. In North American, it was called the year without a summer. There was snow fall all across the US in June, July, and August. One natural event can cause this planet to shift its favor for humans life to another.
There are just three things everyone seem to forget here:
NYC was once covered in two mile of ice at one point in this plant history.
They found dinosaur bones in the antarctic.
The dinosaurs are no longer here.
The very last thing to consider is this:
Does ANY of this matter. When there's suicidal people bent on obtaining atomic weapons. They then start sending suicidal persons to blowing up every others country's capital.
Be Aware
The world is flat, I think Big Foot is alive, there is no global warming, we never went to the moon, the moon is made of cheese, aliens from Mars are among us, Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, Elvis is alive and well, etc, etc,..........sounds kinda............goofy huh? ...That's because people who think like this are! The whole world is laughing at you, not with you!
2 Peter 3:9-13 (NLT) 9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment. 11 Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live, 12 looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames. 13 But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
I know, most of you think these are fables, foolish, or not worth thinking about but..... 2,000 years ago + Peter talked about how our world will end. We are heading for not only global warming, but a universal melt-down. We have been warned so we can be prepared. All of the governments, environmentalists, sincere scientists and billionaires cannot stop this from happening. We can only be ready. Hope we are!
Starsailing - They laughed as Noah also, until they drowned. Again, we goofy people believe in the temperatures elevating and the results that can happen. Just what makes people like Al Gore an expert on this is our problem. He has made a ton of $ off of goofy people on the left also. Putting in an energy efficient light bulb will not stop God's judgment on our behavior.
@Really who says "If anyone had told me 5 years ago that the president would push a law that would FORCE me to buy a commercial product from a third party or face a fine, I would have laughed at them!"
But you don't have any problem with your state governments telling you that you must purchase automobile insurance or face a fine. Automobile insurance is a commercial product and the laws basically "force" you to purchase that commercial product from a third party or face a fine.
If you'd pay attention, you'd notice that the President isn't the problem as the States have taken away more citizen rights than the Federal government. States control more aspects of your life, but never mind that fact, let's just blame the President and Federal government. I find it pathetic how many people are either ignorant or dismissive of this fact. I can't speak for all states, but having had lived in 7 of them throughout my life, I've seen over twice as many laws restricting freedoms from State legislatures than the Federal government in each one. And I've lived in both liberal and conservative states so any argument about which way the state leans is moot.
You'll be hearing more about it in the very near future. Just last December, we saw these headlines:
Rapid rise in Arctic methane shocks scientists
Things are happening the the Eastern Siberian Arctic Shelf very rapidly now.
@Really?-1739510
"In Europe the whole "climate change" thing is dying down. Fewer and fewer people are buying into it anymore."
I'm not quite sure what Europe you are referring too, but its definitely not the one I'm living in. Not only are everyday ppl questioning the bizarre weather this year (my city had 2in of snow....that's NOT normal) but the EU Council just released it March 1/2 Conclusions in which their commitment to green energy, green everything was restated, along with plans and goals. Go the EU website and check it out.
You said it...its crap. If you really want to do the world a favor, stop having babies. I am in favor of birth control and abortions...by all means practice it. The world population doubles every 20 years, we cant keep going like this. Its not the fossil fuels...we are going to have much more to worry about than a degree or two of warming in the next 100 years. And that is if it is even happening at all.
Growing up in a Republican household with an uncle who was a member of the local John Birch Society you couldn't have told me a time would come when one of the major political party would have denial of science as a litmus test. Unfortunately that has become the case.
At nearly any place you wish to check the 30 year average temperature has been increasing.
Low-lying nations in Polynesia are actively making plans to relocate to higher ground do to sea level increase.
Arctic villages are relocating now because loss of permafrost and sea ice have stripped the protection which once prevented them from washing into the sea.
Britain now has an actively growing wine industry, something it hasn't had GOING BACK TO ROMAN TIMES. It's made possible because grape varietal that once only lived much farther south on the continent are able to thrive in southern Britain.
My own city was once a zone 4b on the USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map. On the last map it was zone 5b, now it's 5a -- That's a 10* increase in 30 year average extreme low temp.
Severe storms are becoming increasingly common, and come increasingly early in the annual cycle.
And yet somehow none of it matters to the deniers...
One man's science is anothers propaganda.
IA scooter,
I agree my 66 chev wagon 8 cyl 327, got great gas mileage better than my current van with a 6 cyl engine, though I need a van to carry my wheelchair. Back in the day I needed the Wagon to carry and keep my very specialized tools safe and dry. The gas today sucks and every advance made by the auto company's is countered by more worthless gasoline to power them.
Do believe that human existence has any affect on the earth's atmosphere? I do, but it is not as significant as some would have us believe.
You ask the question am I happy with the current Pres. and I will say yes I am. He has either passed laws he promised or hasn't given up trying to get legislation passed by a hostile Congress, as he had promised during the campaign. Far more than any of his predessors have done. Though this has nothing to do with this discussion.
What ice coverage will the Great Lakes have in the years to follow this one. Averages are not made year by year individually, but by many years put together and averaged. A single year is insignificant by itself.
Wish you Global warmers were here in 2009 when lake Superior Froze over, it was a pleasant winter if I do recall that lasted forever and a day..Let see 2009 ? Not that long ago, then in 2003 Hmm..Get a new job Wang.
The geese never went south this year. Going to be a bad mosquito summer this year, and a really bad fire season in the West.
Where does everyone get their facts about it happening before? Not science? Take a look at China and why they wear masks. Cyclical? No, pollution. Coal fired power plants being built every week. Go look at LA's atmosphere. Cyclical? Maybe from millions of cars. It may have happened in the first Iron Age when fossil fuels were used overwhelmingly to produce large quantities of weapons. Pollution holds the key. Analyze it and you will find that it not only can kill wildlife and humans, but plants and trees. Remember the acid rain in the 70's? It ruined car finishes. Think of your drinking water. Why do Great lakes fish have Mercury in them? Cycles? Don't be foolish.
Wow it must liberal day on bsnbc. All opinions other than theirs are being collasped. Probably the same ones who think DST should be year round.
to capitulate with darthfrodo - the ticks will be particularly nasty and biting early in the east
I have flow over Greenland 169 times the last 40 years, First it was only ICE, now you can see a lot is gone, I even have pictures.
Why do you think Alcoa hires 3000 Cheenese workers to go and help the native eskimoes (now they have self rule) to dig up the aluminum and other metals (like that bomb material Iran wants), now exposed!--Is that a theory too? --Or is the money now there to be picked up a lot cheaper than moving 5000 feet of ICE
How much money is made by the "goofy people on the right?" How much went into that collection plate today to try to dictate morality, politics, and mindset in the name of someone's "god?" People act out those apocalyptic writings like blind fools.
This is great News it means the Ice age is still in retreat. I am a little concerned about the acidity of the oceans thou.
Ever notice how climate change deniers view it as an elaborate political hoax, just like creationists view evolution as an elaborate political hoax? Also ever notice how the two of them frequently believe both to be elaborate political hoaxes? And they expect us to take them seriously? Yeah, I find that funny too.
Thanks for making my point that denial of science is now a litmus test for Conservatives.
Speaking of points, I notice that NO ONE has even TRIED to disprove the science of global warming...only to ridicule the concept.
If anyone thinks they're up to the challenge feel free to respond. I'll be back later.
The climate change crisis made fear mongering neocons out of all of us as we condemned our own children to the greenhouse gas ovens with childish glee. Bush had his false war and we had ours.
Thank you Really?-1739510 for illustrating the point that I was making. Also, I'm honored by your sincerest form of flattery. It's good that you realize that you must imitate my style to improve yours.
Evolution and climate change, just as any other part of science, is falsifiable. In order to refute them, you'll need hard evidence. However exactly as you say, no amount of "thought experiment" by random lay people (people with little to no understanding of science in any real sense of the word) on the forum will be able to refute hard science, especially when their arguments are supported/fed to them by biased/conspiracy sources.
Exactly! You don't need no stinkin' evidence to support your claims!
Just focus on the basics of how to refute evolution: "eye=wow!=ignore evidence=very complex=I can't fathom anything more perfect=I can't fathom how it could function in any other way, shape, or form=irreducible=designed!"
Or one that I saw in a Jehova's Witness pamphlet (yes, really): "feather=wow!=ignore evidence=perfect!=how does it interlock like that?!=I can't fathom anything more perfect=I can't fathom how it could function in any other way, shape, or form=irreducible=designed!"
Or climate change forum basics: "climate change=what do you mean humans can shape their environment?=I can't fathom how a human can adapt their environment=ignore evidence=socialism!=conspiracy!=tinfoil!=I love my SUV/truck/pickup that I don't use for work and carries only 1 person 90% of the time=Al Snore!=Nobama!=CFLs will save me money? Lies! Saving energy can only cost more!=Ha! It's snowing in winter!=Ha! It's hot in summer!=political political political!"
Hell, you people don't even try to refute climate change even pretending to use science most of the time. It's usually viewed as a politically created issue. Of course, this ignores the fact that climate change existed well before Al Gore made a documentary about it, and that he has had no influence on the science of it.
And yet, they expect us to take them seriously. Yeah, funny as death.
Humans think they know it all about the earth, we dont have a clue what is going to happen. Now we can see the future? Havent a clue what happened or how it happened 100-200-300 million+ years ago. Mother earth will shake off humans like a flea on a dog.
Please tell me what the climate or vegatative state would be like if the dinosaurs lived another 20-30-100 million years? You havent a clue.
Once money is factored into "science" you know its a sham, look at Al Gore lmao
Try looking at the chart on the following website, by looking at Ice-Cores they have been able to track the CO2 levels in Earth's atmosphere back 650,000 years. There is a clear pattern that the earth goes through, we are WAY outside that pattern, this is clearly man made.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Try getting an education instead of just saying you don't trust scientists because they don't tell you what you want to hear.
That we do not know because it did not happen. We do know due to scientfic investigation exactly what the climate was like when they did live. When know what plants where alive then. We know the positions of the continents then. We know where the seas were. We know what animals lived then. People with many years of education (unlike you)have worked on theses discoveries using logical scientific reasoning following the clues left in the fossil record. Don't speak of clues until you get some.
The higher the scientist's credentials the less likely the "sham". Check out the credentials of the globally sanctioned scientists that claim human creation of global warming and oceanic acidity. Then check out the credentials of the "scientists" that wrote the minority opinion against Gore's presentation. The "scientist" that denied Gore's presentation was the very same that claimed there were ties between the flu vaccine and autism (debunked). He had a clear history of supporting "science" for money. Sometimes the complainer is the culprit. In this case it is.
Jimbo,
We were not here 100..200..300 million years ago but we are here now. To say scientists do not have a clue about what is going to happen only proves that you do not have a clue. It really doesn't matter what the scientists are saying because there are too many people like you who don't believe anything they say.
We know a whole heck of a lot more about it than you do, Jimbo. You haven't got the ability to pass judgement on what scientists know. If you did, you would know better than to post that.
Climate change deniers have been totally brainwashed by their masters, big oil. You want to risk the only planet that is known to be capable of supporting life just so big oil can make more money? Not only could major coastal cities be flooded but much the U.S.A. could end up like the Sahara desert. Guess the rich do not care since they will still be able to move inland or buy food while millions are homeless and starving.
Not even close to correct, Really.
If you think acceptance in the scientific community depends on groupthink you haven't a clue how things work. REAL fame in the scientific community comes from DISPROVING something that was formerly accepted as gospel, and replacing it with a theory that works better. The global warming science is solid.
If you reject that a single mild winter here proves global warming (and you should) then you must also reject that a single severe winter in Europe disproves the theory.
You should know, however, that under the theory the Gulf Stream could suddenly stop due to rapid influx of fresh water from melting glaciers. Under that scenario Europe takes on a climate similar to Siberia...and other parts of the world warm even further to compensate.
Read the article. It says the Great Lakes have seen progressively less ice OVER TIME...exactly as the theory would predict.
The best credentialed scientists NEVER reached consensus on a new ice age. ONE TEAM managed to garner some headlines on popular magazines by making that claim. Even then the greater bulk of the scientific community was becoming convinced that warming was the real state.
Oh, and it was the church that enforced the myth of a flat world, just as the Church of Conservatism seeks to enforce a myth in which global warming isn't already happening.
Is that so?
http://www.ucsusa.org/ssi/climate-change/scientific-consensus-on.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002439279_warm13.html
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm
That's what consensus looks like.
Yeah, there is.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/
Really, really wrong again. A variety of sampling methods, each contributing evidence that points in the same direction, each useful over different periods of time lead to the conclusion that the earth is warmer RIGHT NOW than it's been in the entire existence of man.
http://grist.org/climate-energy/one-hundred-years-is-not-enough/
Once again reinforcing my assertion that Conservatives have no belief in science.
And now we're on one of the most simplistic, and most basically wrong mistakes/misrepresentations of the climate change deniers...confusing weather with climate.
That's what I thought the deniers would say when confronted with the facts.
Marc, I guess it all depends on whether you are right/left, Republician/Democrat.
But don't let facts confuse anyone! ((eye roll)) Or proven science either!
pinecone, agreed.
I am absolutely convinced, after months of digging deep and checking out differing opinions, that global warming and oceanic acidity from CO2 is real. I also believe that man is the primary contributor to this CO2 increase and that our "decision window" to reverse the trend is closed or closing.
That aside, I am also convinced that we will do nothing about it and will have to live with the consequences. I blame the right for their ignorance and the left for their lack of spine and all of us for our increasing apathy.
Really?-1739510
sorry to inform you, like you didn't already know, your words fall on deaf ears, but please try to keep informing the people here, i myself gave up, after all ....."ya simply cannot fix stupid"..................
Really:
The periods of time when there was more CO2 in the atmosphere than today was due to erupting volcanoes spewing CO2 in the air. True this was way before the time of mankind.
As far as controlling peoples actions, we have false religions doing that just fine.
"America uses over 8000 barrels of oil each day. If we stopped every single gasoline burning vehicle on the road tomorrow, we would still need over 5000 barrels of oil each day...."
Now I know why I read the blogs. For laughs. Some people are so fawking dumb they don't even know they are dumb. Where did you get this information from, Mr. Rocket scientist?
Climate change is blamed on human activity to accelerate it. Yes, there was more carbon in the atmosphere before, and it's good that you recognize the relationship between carbon and climate.
This time, however, we are the ones artificially putting it there and raising temperatures. A warmer climate will kill many plants and animals for many reasons.
But then again, you worship ignorance.
Sure, but the plants can't necessarily pull up stakes (or roots, actually) and migrate to a place that better suits them when changing climates create an environment that is inhospitable where they live currently. You're making a silly and specious argument that has nothing to do with anything.
It's also true that the Earth will go on...with or without us. That's really the point, isn't it?
Yet more proof that Global Warming is REAL. Although I'm sure the naysayers will just dig in like a tic rather than admit they are wrong.
we could have the coldest year in two centuries and the global warming/climate change fools would spin it to their favor. remember Earth was almost covered in ice once.... or is more than 5 years ago outside your memory?
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://climate.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/
"madening" - You can ignore the proof all you want, doesn't make it any less real.
tim,
a trolling i will go....a trolling i will go....high ho the merry oh...a trolling i will go......
Look in a mirror.
What's funniest about this? We shut down our coal plants, some of the cleanest coal plants in the world. And go to other methods of power such as wind which average 4 times as much per megawatt hour to produce (Wind isn't free it's very expensive and unreliable) But we're saving the world!!! Power goes up and industries can't compete with the countries where we our selling our coal to now (China, India, etc) and their power is cheap. Guess what??? These places have no regulations on their emissions. So ironically by doing this greenhouse gas emissions are up to ten times higher than if the coal was burned here and our jobs were kept in America. What made this country economically great was our fantastic natural resources and cheap sources of power. I hope our government wakes up before it's too late.
No kidding Jimbo. Let the chips fall where they may and not try to understand our environment. If were doomed were doomed right? Nothing we can or should do about it.
Global warming is a fact. Whether or not it's man made or natural is irrelevant. We must learn the why and what for so as a species we can adapt to survive. Why do you think think it's not important? Is it because you will be dead if/when global warming becomes an environmental disaster?
Global warming is a fact and so are other mitigating natural factors that may be contributing to it. Google it and you may be surprised. Aside from abstaining from unleashing multi nuclear attacks upon each other, there's really not much man can do to reverse the warming trends except to hope for the best.
Not to worry though, when that Texas sized asteroid does a head on with us, we won't have to worry it any more. Our planet will start from scratch back to day one with single cell organisms again if we're that lucky........Then we can do it all over again.
Wang, Leshkvich, Sellinger, Clites and Bai have done a nice job here. Good science and responsible conclusions.
Human extinction is our ONLY choice, unless within the next 10 years we have REDUCED the use fossil fuels (oil and coal) by over 50%, PLANTED hundreds of millions of trees, ended logging, and PREPARED our cities and agriculture for the inevitable sea rise. Otherwise, these occurrences (receding ice in Great lakes, thawing of Siberian Permafrost, etc.) will be common.
My mantra would be two fold:
"STOP THE DRILLING AND SAVE THE PLANET"
"TIE THE ROD AND SAVE THE PLANET"
funny. Al Gore and his family still have the carbon footprint of a small town. and he makes loads of cash as one of the spokespeople for the church of global warming.
Seems funny to you. Wait until an iceberg from Antarctica travels and hits your home town, Perryville, Texas.
I would suggest you don't breed.
I guess you best get your tin foil hat out.... Because nothing human can be done to save the planet.
NOTHING.......
Tea sucks....
Mature trees convert less CO2 into O.
Logging old growth and replanting is more viable. Also, managed forests are less susceptible to forest fires.
tea....
hahahahaha......... your Mantra.???? are you for real?........hahahahaha ............ you do of course realise what the computer you use and the power source is made of dont you? or are you that inept? like i told tim please come here i have a tree that needs a hug..... now time for cup of tea....
IA Scooter; Do you have anything constructive to say? Quit blathering.
Climate change is pure bullsh*t.
Dodger...man made glo-bull warming is BS. Natural climate change is what is taking place but the radical eco-religious loons want to use fear to sell their lie.
BTW, where is mr. methane himself, al gore? That fat bag of hot gas has been totally submerged since "climategate" blew the cover off his "inconvenient lie."
Slide 6---Log onto mrmethane(dot)com. At least this guy uses his own greenhouse gas emissions to make some REAL music!
ya got it slide
and yes "dallas" i will jump right over there................
What is it that leads you to believe the change is natural?
Weather is weather, and nature will do as nature will do. HUMANS can't control the weather. Global warming is something that was made up, and IS a crock of @!$%#. It's warm and cold somewhere on the planet and anything in between. So all you whackjobs out there who believe in the global warming bull@!$%#, shut the hell up. Enough already.
wow are the geniuses out today.... so much intelligence but can any hold down a job?
so you want fries with that?...................:)
wow are the geniuses out today.... so much intelligence but can any hold down a job?
try not mashing the post button
ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha ... 8-)
I wonder how the bloggers will respond when the next geomagnetic reversal occurs ..
by the way, you will recognize the reversal event by the droves of Boy Scouts equipped with compasses wandering out of the woods into the streets .... 8-)
Global warming is not disputed. Whether humans are responsible is what you are supposed to be arguing about. Read the story more carefully. He only mentions global warming, not the possible causes.
Actually READ the article? ......haven't been on the vine before have ya?.......:)
Talk to the scientists who have studied global warming and continue to do so. I still hear people say "Man was it cold today....so much for global warming" (lol) Ignorance runs rampant... Perhaps if those Americans could pick up a book once in a while. Maybe something without pictures for starters.
Book? .....what is this thing called "book" you lament?............:)
Al gore is hiding out under his own GIANT carbon footprint.
Less ice coverage on the Great Lakes would seem like a good thing. Yet the author is crying that it is bad. If he lived there 12,000 years ago, he would have had to deal with ice thousands of feet thick. I suppose he would have still been trying to prevent human use of cooking and hunting fires to prevent the ice from melting. As for me, I think an open Northwest Passage and quicker ice melt-off, as well as less coverage, may well be worth the speculated environmental damage. The earth has been much warmer than it is today. That is why we get oil, created from the remains of creaturs living in warmer climates, in the North Sea and off the north coast of Alaska.
Wait a minute Jose, I thought the earth was only 8,000 years old. Have I missed something?
So, 40 years of how many years old is the earth is enough to give an accurate glimpse? Give me a break. And I must say, as a great laker, don't miss it yet.
Once the Earth was warmer, now we're magnifying its tendency to warm again, without question, and even if it's natural, what ever happened to our concern about the ozone layer and pollution in general? Besides cleaning up, we have to face the fact that if we were to stop burning fossil fuels altogether tomorrow, it will be a century before the Earth recovers. Therefore, we must adjust to the changes intelligently, by learning to exist near rising water with different architecture, to back away from the coastlines, to move people off disappearing Pacific Islands that are going under, to reduce our overall population for a thousand other reasons; so that 'success doesn't spoil' our species and all the innocent creatures that are dependent on us to rein it in. Those reliant on the status quo for their fortunes are going to argue forever in denial of the plain facts. But let's face it folks, "We have met the enemy, and he is Us!" --Walt Kelly, cum Pogo Possum.
Who says it will be a century before it recovers. From what book or blog did you pull up that factoid.
No, the ozone layer fixed itself because we stopped destroying it with mass releases of Chloroflourocarbons.
Environmentalism works.
Does not matter whether you believe in global warming or not. Too late to stop climate change.
FOR PETE'S SAKES.........THE "CLIMATE HAS CHANGED" SINCE THE BEGINNING OF
TIME AND WILL CONTINUE AS LONG AS THE EARTH IS HERE........Whether any of
us are present or not !!!!!!!!!
Whether it's man-made or "natural cycles", as a Civil Engineer for 30 years, I know as a undisputed fact that the climate is warming. Denying the fact just shows the mentality if the denier. Deniers don't have a shred of evidence proving the earth ISN'T warming, yet everyone in my profession design structures accordingly. I equate these people with the conspiracy theorist that make up their own reality to fit their bias ideals.
Yes the earth is warming. It's normal, thats why we have ice ages, warmings, ice ages, warmings, yet as a Civil Engineer that means you have no clue about scientific fact.
Stop denying the truth that man never caused any ice age or warming that occurred in millions of years and is not now.
Its okay to be honest and truthful, you know I am right.
Thanks for proving my point. Showing your mentality.
There is direct evidence that shows our co2 output, deforestation, and other actions are causing the current climate crisis. This is a crisis, it is contributing to a global food shortage that might just become severe. The science is no longer debatable, there is simple data collection that has taken place and it shows what is happening. Most scientist are in agreement, with many of the scientists who were still not sure or did not agree changing their tune over the past year. Why do you think the Feds made major increases in the size of designated flood zones? Why do you think insurance companies stopped insuring so many American homes over the past few years? Well keep gassing up the truck and eating the pink slime burgers, eventually we will have to take action to protect ourselves from the right wing fascists that are causing us physical harm though the poisoning of people on their own personal property through water, air, and food. I have a right to protect my life and home.
Good luck.
Hey, civil engineer - what do you think of those solar flares? Man made or natural?
Actually there's lots of evidence that it's being driven by man. http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_tar/?src=/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm
Soooo, do your really think our modern model of the universe is driven by power and money?
Do you really think particle physics is responsive to power and money?
Do you truly believe chemical reactions are dictated by political and monetary forces?
As I've stated previously, we now live in a world where one of our political parties denies the existence of science entirely.
SO what. At the moment both poles ice are near normal so now we jump to the great lakes? Talk about changing the claim as they are proven false.
The great lakes do not effect the worlds weather. Living in Ohio I do appreciate the warm winter we had. That being said I hear those in Alaska had the opposite winter. -45 degrees. Not to worry you will also notice they cherry picked the years. I can assume we have great lakes weather date for at least 100 years.
Europe had record cold this season also I suppose that just doesn't fit in....
The biggest mistake that has been made in discussing this problem is calling it global warming it should be called climate change. Some places will get warmer, but some will get colder. The fact that europe has had a very cold winter and the U.S. has had a very warm winter doesn't mean that the people studying this problem are wrong. If the ice cap melts and the fresh water enters the gulf stream, northern europe will be an ice box. Just look at a globe and see how far north England is for example. If you're going to seriously decide who's right about this, please read things written by those that have some expertese on the subject and not by some wacko who gets offf by just denying everything.
We have to stop the global warnings. If we don't stop the global warning, then we will have the greenhouse. To stop the global warning, we need to get rid of all the fossils. The fossils cause the global warning.
Big Al that is funny
The fossils are also responsible for using up what is left of Social Security. lol
The fossils are those in Washington that continue to protect the moneyed intrests that keep this ex-middle class country from improving the standard of living.
Excellent!
We need more water and less ice!
In 1979 the earth was more polluted than today say scientists. By their own admission the earth cools and warms in cycles. For millions of years and not once was it cause by a man or man's carbon foot print.
The truth is the truth.
In 1977, Jimmy Carter and his energy dept said oil would run out in 30 years. We have more known oil reserves than we used up to that time. Relax. Its true.
You and the other climate change deniers can go on believing whatever big pack of lies big oil makes up.
Yes the earth goes through cycles, but we as a species have risen to level where we do influence nature. How many rivers have we dammed? How much of the earths surface have we paved over? How much more CO2 have we dumped into the atmosphere than would of occurred naturally? And you think it has no effect? To anyone who thinks our behavior has no influence, your idiots. Which is a big part of why we are in the mess we are today. Want a solution to energy, food, medical, & housing problems? Drop our world wide populations. Oh wait, it's our god given right to be idiots & multiply like ...... As a species we have gone for quantity over quality.
We can rant and rave about global warming all we want, we can debate it, we can argue about it but mark my words, nothing substantial will be done....
Still coming out of the little ice age. People are NOT causing this.
That happened starting about 10,000 years ago. Just another one of the lies which big oil has made up.
@Really?-1739510
"In Europe the whole "climate change" thing is dying down. Fewer and fewer people are buying into it anymore."
I'm not quite sure what Europe you are referring too, but its definitely not the one I'm living in. Not only are everyday ppl questioning the bizarre weather this year (my city had 2in of snow....that's NOT normal) but the EU Council just released it March 1/2 Conclusions in which their commitment to green energy, green everything was restated, along with plans and goals. Go the EU website and check it out.
Litte Ice Age was fairly recent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
Where's your proof of that, MP?