Yep! welcome to daylight savings time

That's true about daylight savings change... spikes of accidents do occur.

Yeah too bad this darn planet can't just stay in one spot huh? What's with all this rotating and seasons?

That's true about daylight savings change... spikes of accidents do occur.

Not in spring, though. The accident spike happens in the fall when people go from driving home from work in daylight to driving in the dark. I see it every year.

You have it backward, Chris. Accidents spike in the spring when people lose sleep over the shorter DST weekend:

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199604043341416

Actually, you're both right. In the spring, when there is more driving in the morning darkness, as the sun is rising (especially if you're sriving east), and in the fall, as you are driving in the darkness (especially when heading west). I see it first hand, as a towing operator. Also, during the hours of school aged kids getting to, and from school, as much as during the morning, and evening work travel times. More in the earlier parts of summer vacation, and at the end, as teen drivers are in go, go, go mode for getting out of, and heading back to school.

Fell asleep at the wheel??

Sad. I had read within the last week or ten days that the NTSB is concerned that charter schools, in addition to paying teachers much less in total booked pay and benefits, they also are cutting corners in areas concerning their buses, with less maintenance, less qualified drivers, and less attention to safety overall. Charter schools are nothing more than education on the cheap and it is sad when kids have to pay the price for that.

Yet, another reason to have seatbelts on school buses!!!!!!!! My heart goes out to the friends and families who lost their loved one.

We have daylight savings time because it is advantageous for business.

It was originally set up to save coal back way back when due to the war effort... but now with everyone running A/C in their homes later... we actually eats more energy.

Chris - I wondered which misguided person would be to bring partisan political crap into this story. You did not let me down, Chris. I no longer expect anything different from some posters.........

Charter schools are in direct opposition to your history of NEA support. Please look at RESULTS of kids coming out of these miserable institutions with underpaid teachers and shoddy equipment. Your hate for these institutions will never make them go away. As progressives push harder and harder to eliminate God from the classroom, school property, and the very minds of the students in their midst, the greater the Christian element will pursue charter / private / Christian education.

If this warrants a suspension for a COH violation, I accept it with my own honor. Because this story is not about someone's political feelings, it is about a school bus accident in Indianapolis. Let's not derail the story!!!!!!!

Blake - you heart in is the right place but unfortunately seat belts just don't make sense. Who is going to make these kids wear them? What if there is another type of accident and the kids need to escape quickly? Who is going to free them if needed? You are talking up to 50+ kids in some cases. Don't forget about the cost as well.

Not that I don't think it is a terrible idea, just when put in practice its impossible to enforce. Not to mention school buses are designed a certain way to account for this and when statistically compared to driving your kid to school in your own car, school buses are way safer.

It is unfortunate this happened and my heart goes out to those who were injured or lost loved ones in this wreck but we can't let knee jerk reactions control us. We need to think about all the reasons involved and have to be impartial when we do. Sometimes accidents happen and that is just how it is. We could make all buses tanks, all cars tanks, live in concrete bunkers if we liked, or stay at home and never leave the house, but at the end of the day it doesn't make sense and that's not a life I would want to live.

It is time we accept that we can't control everything and that the constant knee jerk reactions we keep seeing aren't always the best answer or course of action. Sometimes in the long run they end up doing more bad than good.

The worst task any police officer faces is knocking on the door of a home and asking the parents to come to the morgue to identify their child's body.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

My condolences to the families.

Everything doesn't have to be enforced if offered at all, and every idea isn't a kneejerk.

It would be really cool if buses just had seatbelts even available to kids. They have to wear them in cars, and in buses they can't if they want to. Makes no sense.

concernedone - it's funny, i DIDNT wonder who was going to be the first (of if anyone) was going to drag politics into this...mostly because I wasnt looking to debate politics.

But given your long response about charter schools, it seems YOU are just as guilty as Chris when it comes to wanting to derail threads on a political tip.

Because this story is not about someone's political feelings, it is about a school bus accident in Indianapolis. Let's not derail the story!!!!!!!

Uh, concernedone, I don't really see where Chris is expressing his "...political feelings..." regarding this incident. On the other hand, I do see you trying to shove your religious feelings down everyone's throats. In your own words, it's about a school bus accident in Indianapolis

This makes me so sad. As a school bus driver, I know how often every day, every trip that I get distracted by a student, an impatient driver cutting me off and so on. I don't like to see people pass judgement so easily. Safety is so important on a school bus, but as much as I am a human, so are the children riding. Kindergardeners are the easiest to forget themselves and stand up. When this happens it catches the drivers eye, which takes them off the road (even if for just a second, and that's when accidents happen). I don't mean to ramble, I just pray for all of us out there trying to get these children to and from where they're going, to get them there as safely as possible. My heart goes out to all those involved in this sad situation.

Jessica - So I should shut up and not respond?

If I merely told Chris to keep it to himself, wouldn't you wonder why I said it?

And since you say I'm in the wrong with a derail, won't you call it both ways and say Chris was wrong for initiating the whole thing???

Blake-2644321

Yet, another reason to have seatbelts on school buses!!!!!!!! My heart goes out to the friends and families who lost their loved one.

Yes Blake a seat belt is a knee jerk and very dangerous option on a school bus. As a mechanic pointed out further down a school bus is built heavy and will withstand and win an impact against all other lighter vehicles. On more severe crashes the idea is to suppress the energy between the seat and prevent the passengers from flying into each other.

In this case seat-belts most likely would have caused many more deaths and let me explain why. In head-on or driving into immovable objects like concrete columns where all the energy suddenly comes to a stop, the bodies are tossed to the seat in front in a single motion, with a seat belt the body will come to a violent stop and necks and the heads will violently fly forwards, the G-force will over extend the ligaments, the rebounding backlash would then crack or sever the spine in less than a heartbeat. This is why automobiles require air bags to prevent fatalities, the actual head needs to be retrained if the seat-belts are worn. Unless they can place a child directly behind an air bag, statistically speaking the children have a far better chance at walking away without a seat belt.

KEN...yes, Obama will be blamed for this. At about the same time as Bush is.

WHY do we need daylight saving time anyway? It doesn't save any daylight. You have the same number whether you move the clock forward or not. The US is the only place that uses DST. I liked being overseas for that reason.

Ken's right, it is Obama's fault.

On average 20 kids are killed and 6000 kids are injured in school bus accidents every year. That is 200 kids killed and 60,000 injured in the last ten years. Time to ban the evil school bus! Better yet ban schools - The Transportation Research Board of the National Academy of Sciences estimates that every year more than 800 school-aged children are killed as occupants in other motor vehicles or as pedestrians or bicyclists during “normal school transport hours" -152,000 school-age children are nonfatally injured during normal school travel hours each year - Thats 1,520,000 kids injured in the last 10 years.

Last 10 years 8,200 kids killed and 1,520,00 children injured because of travel to and from the evil schools! When you figure in all the deaths and injuries related to school activity IE> School workers and parents killed in auto accidents. Violent crimes at and a on way to and from schools, shootings, etc. accidents at schools by falling, sports,illness, etc. The numbers of deaths and injuries would double or even triple.

Stop the madness!!! and ban evil schools now!!!!

@dartatak

The worst task any police officer faces is knocking on the door of a home and asking the parents to come to the morgue to identify their child's body.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

I agree. I was wondering what they mayor was doing there, until I saw the bit about him comforting the rescue workers. Hat's off to that guy. There are always plenty of people helping the obvious victims, but I can't imagine what it's like being the guys that have to go out to these scenes and pull dead and wounded children out of them. 13 years in the military and I don't think even I could handle that.

I may be an atheist, but if prayers can help the kids, parents, and first responders deal with this better, you have mine, as hypocritical as that might sound.

Well Chris if you're an atheist who the hell are you going to address those prayers to? You're more than a hypocrite, you're delusional as well.

Chris from Yucaipa - Very good observations. When I was a firefighter, we had a special team called the Critical Incident Stress Management Debriefing Team. The team of volunteers, made up of medical doctors, psychologists, paramedics, religious leaders, and fellow emergency response people, would meet together with groups who responded to the ugliest of the ugly situations. The intent was to get the responders talking, thereby letting them see they are not alone in their service, and there are people around them that understand and have compassion to their situations. The things an emergency worker sees, smells, and HEARS can drive them right over the edge.

At one time, the rate of divorce was the highest among emergency service workers. When one sees the brutal side of bad situations, they build up a detachment to what makes us human. Those men and women need programs like CISMDT's to help them keep their sanity, and still function normally in their relationships as they are exposed to horrid things.

Thanks again for bringing the responders to the surface. It means a lot!

Realist-502574

Well Chris if you're an atheist who the hell are you going to address those prayers to? You're more than a hypocrite, you're delusional as well.

"Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have."

I figured I'd post the definition for ya, Realist, as clearly you have no f*cking clue what it means. As is obvious to about 99% of the people reading it, I have no intention of getting down on my knees and praying to someone who I do not believe is there. However I would still like to express the same sentiment that someone who actually will pray would have in this situation.

As a quick glance thru your posting history shows, you make a habit out of telling others that alot of us are godless soulless heathens needing to be saved from ourselves. Usually in the form of an insult because you lack any ability to respectfully disagree with a person.

Chris from Yucaipa - I am a Christian who prays, and someone who accepts you for who you are, free of making fun of who you are! I appreciate seeing the human side of folks, and you showed it above.

I might pray for you, but I won't condemn you. I pray for myself too, because I believe I fall short. 7,000,000,000 people with different belief systems... Just sayin'...

@concernedone

Thank you.

Concerned about self it seems. Chris wasn't political, "concerned one" started with the politics.

Gives more reason to sit in the back of the buss I guess.

Here's a suggestion to help you understand the laws of physics... put a bean bag ashtray on your head. Now, run real fast, and run into something unmoveable and shorter than you are. No, not your little brother. A kitchen counter would be good. See what happens to the ashtray? With the bus, consider all the metal, and what happens to it when it crashes into an unmoveable object. It not only crushes, it also bends and tears. So, it's logical that a light object, like a passenger, could become trapped under one of the wheels after flying through the air, just like your ashtray. And with the metal parts being bent and torn, well, there ya have it.

How does it not make sense? People can be ejected from vehicles during accidents. And seeing that this was a school bus, chances are better than even that it had no restraints. A little difficult to imagine how the kid ended up under the wheel, but it's not exactly impossible. I've seen an accident where a car hit a tree at 60 mph and one occupant was ejected backwards 50 feet through the rear window. Weird things happen in high-speed impacts.

Ever tear open a beer or soda can? That's what buses are made from... sheet metal... The kid was obviously ejected from the impact and tearing.

I've never accepted the reasons I heard given to explain why school buses are not equipped with seat belts.

I've never accepted the reasons I heard given to explain why school buses are not equipped with seat belts.

You really need it explained to you? Cost > benefit. Simple as that. School buses just don't get into enough accidents and there are just not enough rider injuries or fatalities to justify the cost of installing belts. As a parent, one instinctively knows that even one injury is enough to justify the cost, but the bean-counters just don't think that way. Not their kids riding the bus, usually.

I would say ONE fatality is TOO MANY. So should everyone, because the child that died could have been ...yours.

Some school buses are equipped with seat belts. My school bus has seat belts for the first row behind the drivers seat. One head start child gets buckled into a harness because he likes to climb all over the place. Have you ever heard of compartmentalization? If children sit in their seats like they're supposed to then it generally works. Who knows if seat belts would've saved the child killed in this accident, I doubt it. The driver was probably wearing his seat beat and he or she died anyway. And can you imagine if you're the driver, unbuckling 70+ students if there ever was an accident such as a fire? Lastly, consider this statistic- according to the National Safety Council, the national school bus accident rate is 0.01 per 100 million miles traveled, compared to 0.04 for trains, 0.06 for commercial aviation and 0.96 for other passenger vehicles.

It is not a cost about money. How does one person get 50 or 60 kids to wear the seat belts? It is difficult enough to get them to sit down on the bus. It is much easier said than done. Instead the buses are made with compartmentalized seating areas. Each seat is made to cushion against impacts. Not as effective as belts but as a passive system every child is protected. How many would have been injured in a car or SUV with seat belts in the same accident?

My prayers go to the families involved.

How does one person get 50 or 60 kids to wear the seat belts?

Bus monitor. Nice little old lady who sits at the front and checks all the kids' belts when they get on and sit down.

Same amount of sleep. At least for me anyway as I went to bed and got up at the usual times. My local news said that DST was supposed to save electricity. I think that is pure hogwash. If there is any savings It must be negligible.

Chris,

Districts are cutting budgets to the bone. No money for bus monitors unless there is a bus with a large number of "problem" children, or you have a bus with children of physical or learning disabilities and that child has an aide assigned in his/her IEP specifically for bus.

As for seatbelts, when I wanted my daughter to use them, I had to write a letter to the district bus garage requesting it. The driver needed to know whose belts she would have to cut in case of an accident and the belts jammed. In the case of this accident, with the driver dead on impact, the belts may have actually caused more injury if God forbid that bus went up in flames and the belts jammed and kids couldn't release themselves.

Sad day for sure, but you should think twice about wanting those seat belts on the bus. Most buss's can hold 77 children. Unless you plan on helping to pay for the extra adults needed on the bus which statistically are hardly ever in accidents how do you expect 1 adult to deal with 77 seat belts? Seat belts are notorious for locking up and jamming in accidents. What if the bus had caught fire? What if it had slid over the other direction in the picture and flipped on it's side and landed in the water? How many of those children could of drown if they had been seat belted in. If you want your kids seat belted in, drive them yourself. Also test for yourself how long it takes to cut a seat belt with what looks like a plastic letter opener. Buss's are designed to cushion the impact, like the stuffing in a package. The contents inside will get jostled around perhaps bruised and in this case with a front on collision broken noses. Don't forget the driver wears a seat belt and look what happened to that poor soul.

Before everyone gets all righteous, you should be thankful it wasn't your child or spouse that died. So many more could of died today.

Easy to imagine a child being ejected upon impact, the door would easily open, the child falls out and the bus moves backward after the impact is absorbed.

I've never accepted the reasons I heard given to explain why school buses are not equipped with seat belts.

"You really need it explained to you? Cost > benefit. Simple as that. School buses just don't get into enough accidents and there are just not enough rider injuries or fatalities to justify the cost of installing belts. As a parent, one instinctively knows that even one injury is enough to justify the cost, but the bean-counters just don't think that way. Not their kids riding the bus, usually."

Not exactly. There are no seatbelts because of physics. Do you have and idea how much a bus weighs? You're looking at around 35,000lbs. with students on board. The typical passenger car weighs 2,800 to 3,400 lbs. In a typical accident, the bus wins.

Of course, it doesn't matter how big your vehicle is if you run into a bridge.

As a Heavy Truck Mechanic for many many years I know School buses are not just sheet metal..they happen to be built on a heavy semi truck full steel frame they just don't fold up on impact unless you hit a bridge or something like that ..I agree they should all have seat belts but school districts don't want to pay for that because its a known fact that they have the lowest accidents of anything on the road..I guess they figure a few kids are worth the cost ,,,Thank you Republicans

Seatbelts save lives. Period. It's cynical and crazy not to mandate them on schoolbuses.

Colleen, your ridiculous claim about seatbelts being "notorious for locking up and jamming in accidents" is simply untrue. You probably made that up to bolster your equally ridiculous scenario about the bus being on fire or landing in the water.

Someone who was belted in and not thrown around a vehicle like a ragdoll has a far better chance of survival than someone who has already suffered a head injury, lacerations, fractures, etc. READ SOME STATISTICS. A quick click of the belt and someone has a chance of getting out, whether the bus is sideways in a pond or on fire.

And, incidentally, the "on fire" scenario is both overworked and unrealistic. Most--not all, but MOST--school buses are diesel powered and far less likely to erupt in flames than something with a gas tank under it.

Chris was right--the ONLY reason buses are not equipped with seatbelts is that they cost money. And the beancounters have decided that the low crash rates of buses do not merit adding the cost of seatbelts.

Kids adapt very well to rules, contrary to the shrill insistence of some that there would be no compliance. If the kids knew, from kindergarten up, that the bus would not move until everyone was belted in, they would click it. If seatbelt use were the norm, just as it is in many family vehicles (mine included), they would not even think about it--it would just be the normal thing to do. And if someone unlocked their belt, you may be sure that several self-appointed bus monitors (i.e., tattletales) would announce the fact to the driver. That's how kids are.

In accidents, people are frequently ejected from the vehicle. Often straight through glass windshields. In less than a quarter of a second.

It's absolutely horrible. The human body isn't meant to bend/move/react in such a brief time, nor to be exposed to such tremendous forces. In less than the time it takes to blink, your body can be torn through an opening it should never have fit through and slammed into the pavement.

And then the bus (in this case) can finish rocking back from its initial collision, landing on top of the victim.

Otherguy.................I was told by the head of a very large school district that the children shoud not wear seat belts so they can evacuate the bus quicker in case of an accident.

The most ludicrous statement I have ever heard..........and I told him so. Having worked in education for many years, I have seen way too many school bus accidents or near misses where children have luckily not been seriously hurt but have lost most of their front teeth. I argued with this man until I was blue in the face, to no avail.

I actually witnessed an accident where a van hit a telephone pole. In the aftermath, they found that one of the occupants had been ejected and crushed between the van and the telephone pole. The other occupants(including my sister) said that this boy was definately in the van with them. he was also in the middle seat between my sister and her friend, the friend walked away unhurt,and my sister ended up with a broken arm. So how do things like this happen? Check out vidoes of accidents. They are very violent, and things literally explode!

usmale...please educate me on how exactly Republicans should be thanked for this accident?

AllThatAndBrains, did you not read Ken Trout's comment above? It read this:

"In this case seat-belts most likely would have caused many more deaths and let me explain why. In head-on or driving into immovable objects like concrete columns where all the energy suddenly comes to a stop, the bodies are tossed to the seat in front in a single motion, with a seat belt the body will come to a violent stop and necks and the heads will violently fly forwards, the G-force will over extend the ligaments, the rebounding backlash would then crack or sever the spine in less than a heartbeat. This is why automobiles require air bags to prevent fatalities, the actual head needs to be retrained if the seat-belts are worn. Unless they can place a child directly behind an air bag, statistically speaking the children have a far better chance at walking away without a seat belt."

This is the ONLY reason why there are no seatbelts on school buses. Kids' spinal column as well as neck area are so fragile that it would take VERY LITTLE for a whiplashing motion so sudden which WOULD have happened in this case to cause a basilar skull fracture. If it happens to adults with stronger and much more massive bone density, it will happen to 90% of children that are restrained without proper neck support or an airbag to save them. You can argue it's because of costs, yadayadayada, but in reality, the laws of physics and SMART people as you claim yourself to be from your name, have figured out these facts that have also been sadly seen in incidents on and off roads all over the country as well as race tracks.

Besides, how many school bus accidents do you even hear about? There are so many laws around school buses that they very rarely get in accidents. I do not think seat belts would have helped much. Remember these are not transit buses with metal poles all around. The seats in front of them are more padded than my damn couch. Sure, cost is a factor but to think that ALL accidents are avoidable is to live in a dream world. A loaded bus with 30-40+ kids is moving most likely 30-35mph into a cement bridge support and only 2 deaths? Sounds like a safe bus to me. Bus driver I'm sure had his seat belt on, didn't help him any.

The seats in front of them are more padded than my damn couch.

Damn, get a new couch. What do you have, a futon? Those bus seats are by no stretch of the imagination well-padded. They're faux leather stuffed with foam rubber, with the bar frame just under the surface. If you nail your head on one of those, you'll lose some teeth or get a nice dent in your forehead. When was the last time you were on a school bus?

I am sure the education system has it's funding issues but the buses in the districts in Massachusetts I live and travel through didn't get too many cuts. Nothing is better than being behind a bus stopping at every other driveway. You mean kids now can't walk to the corner? It amazes me on Cape Cod seeing some of these bus stops and how close they are. I don't mean elementary and middle school. I am talking about high school. In the interest of child safety I just get a chuckle from it but I remember walking a half mile down my street to the bus stop at the corner with the kid next door only to get on the bus and drive right on down our street past our houses.

On the more serious note that is such a sad day for the driver and the child's families and terrible for everyone involved.

Blessed having another adult on the bus wouldn't have avoided this accident and the story made no mention of behavioral problems on the bus so I'm not sure where your going with this.

Thank you Soldiers,

I know what you mean by the constant stopping of buses, since it happens on my road at almost every other driveway. Since I live on a road where it is 30 through the development, but people fly through at 55 or better, and there are no sidewalks, I'll gladly give up a few minutes of my time to ensure my children and the others on my road safely get on and off the bus.

NOPE!

What would you categorize as National News then? I have seen reports on my tv news station regarding fires and riots in California. Murder trials across the country. Hurricanes in the Gulf. Flooding in the midwest. Should those stories not be reported nationally? Aren't we a more cohesive nation if we understand what is going on in other parts of the country?

Well said, Eric. All national news is local news SOMEWHERE. I don't live in the midwest so why should those tornadoes be wasting time on the news here? Not only that, but since they happened there, they really don't need their own local news telling them there were tornadoes because they were right there in them. Waste of time to be on the news at all, right?

Simply put, Joe, why the hell did you bother to click on the link? Obviously it was because you thought it was newsworthy, right? I see all kinds of tags on MSN and if I don't think it interesting or newsworthy, guess what? I DON'T CLICK ON IT. Very simple to do... or not do, I guess, would be more correct. If you don't think something is newsworthy, please do us a favor and don't click on the link then leave an idiotic comment about how it doesn't matter to you because you don't live there. DUH...

If the bus students from this accident are having any delayed injury, I am sure the school will note that it is from the bus ride. They could have gone to the ER and been checked,but there would not be any sight of injury right after. I have been in an accident,rear ended, and felt fine right after,but 24hour later was in some real pain and hurt. I am sure that taking the kids that could walk on to the school was a good way to count noses and make sure just where the kids were right after the accident.The report does not go into that detail, but giving a reporter the info at that time is not the concern of the police and school, getting the kids taken care of is. And I am sure the school is calling each and every one of those parents right now.

Wow! That makes even less sense than not requiring seat belts in the first place! I see both sides of the issue, and I'm not sure which side I'm on, but it seems like it would only be consistent to require the kids to wear them if they're mandatory on the vehicle.

If you read it as "stuck under the steering wheel" you need to go back and read it again because I feel you may be dyslexic (I am and there's no shame in it... that is, unless you aren't and you still read stuff wrong. That's sad) It doesn't say a child was just "stuck under the wheel" It says "WISH-TV reported that one of the injured was a child whom emergency crews had to rescue from under the front wheel of the bus" (exact quote but my emphasis) There is only one steering wheel and everyone knows it's located in the front of the vehicle so the reporter saying it was a "front wheel" and referring to that would be idiotic. "Under the front wheel of the bus" is a pretty exact location that, for most intelligent people, is not easily confused with the steering column. Mind you, they didn't say if it was the left front or right front, but I hardly think that really makes a difference to the child's parents, do you?

I once wondered about our school's inability to educate our children on basic reading and writing... till someone pointed out that only one of the "3 R's" actually begins with an R. That would explain it

Sounds Logical!

You child is safer in the bus than a car. The car is the most likely way to get killed. Motor vehicle accidents is 4th in the list for the cause of death after heart disease, cancer and stroke. So that means for a child it is the most likely. It is calculated that of the 800 child deaths in motor vehicles during school hours, 2 are from school bus passengers.

Do the math, they don't lie. But your emotions will.

Eri, sorry, but I don't understand. I am assuming he rides in a car. Car's are in accidents every day. Has he ever flown? Those have fallen from the skies. Does he walk anywhere? People get hit by cars and bikes all the time. MUCH more than you hear of a bus accident.

Wheel 1---WHAT?! I live in Indiana, and just had to move my clock ahead Sunday morning. Much as Indiana people hate DST, we have to thank our governor for forcing it upon us 4 years ago. And yeah, sleepy people on the road for the first month!

Yes we do - our governor thought we absolutely had to have it a few years back. So now, I believe only Arizona and Hawaii don't mess with their clocks. Happened at 7:45 which would have been daylight last week - this week it's still dark.

And just a couple months ago, at 7:45 it was still dark. Quit blaming DST. Not all Hoosiers hate it.

What the hell does daylight saving have to do with this accident. I'd really like to see someone explain how setting the clocks forward or backwards could have caused this. For all we know the driver had a stroke, heart attack, the front tie rod could have snapped, the steering pump could have gone out, there are hundreds of reasons this could have happened. But I fail to see how daylight savings could have had anything to do with this. Thats is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Agree with mith1215. After all, the clocks were set ahead, and the hour of sleep was lost, on Saturday night, not Sunday night. DST should not have been a factor in this accident, but I'll wait for the results of the investigation before I leap to any conclusion.

KG: You're right, a couple of months ago it WAS still dark at 7:45 am, but it has gradually changed to lighten then you are suddenly thrust in the dark again where it's more difficult to see. THAT'S what people are blaming this on Mith (not lack of sleep as HadEnough seems to think). The SUDDEN change to darkness. Same thing happens in reverse in the fall. Evenings you can't see because we suddenly change to darkness in the evenings. It made Halloween more fun, but now they don't even change until after that so why bother? You ever try to drive through a neighborhood full of highschoolers all dressed goth so you can't flippin see them? They'll run right in front of you then flip you off and cuss you out because you can't see them in all their black!

I drive east to work and that means for the next month, I won't have the sun screwing up my vision but I'll GRADUALLY get used to it again. I personally think we should scrap the whole time change as the reason for it no longer exists. Leave the extra daylight in the evenings (like right now) and don'tchange back in the fall. Then we will be on the same par as Arizona. What a pain to call places there and you have to remember they are in the mountain time zone but must be adjusted to pacific time in the summer :Þ

You are right, Mith, in that there could have been a medical reason for the accident. That was the first thing I thought of given the comments that this was a very good driver and well liked.

Nope. I don't believe they ever did, but I could be wrong and I wouldn't know about private school requirements for their busses.

There was no sunlight until nearly 9am this morning...and actually the sun hasn't really come out at all. Its cloudy today due to the rain.

ok then it was darker than it would have been Friday? I'm not arguing I'm just saying there may have even been other issues that may have been affecting the drivers perception

Technically, yes. Friday it was probably lighter out. Since we had rain overnight and DST kicking in it was darker this morning. But just as dark as it was a couple months ago in the dead of winter. I'm not arguing either, but since when does darkness cause a problem? I'm just confused. Any other day of the year...let's say November...it could be bright and sunny one morning and pitch black the next depending upon the weather. Just as people adjust to the darkness at night in the winter. Its silly.

you might want to wait for the facts.

The cable news is awful for getting out facts. Great at "breaking news"....but very poor for accurate detail reporting.

Don't jump to a conclusion....unless you want to commit suicide.