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Subscribe to RSSThe Taliban have called for revenge after a 38-year-old U.S. staff sergeant allegedly killed 16 Afghan civilians, nine of them children, and then burned many of the bodies. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
The American soldier who is accused in a massacre of 16 villagers near Kandahar could face the death penalty, a military defense attorney said Monday, in one of the worst cases of alleged mass murder by a U.S. service member since the Vietnam War.
U.S. officials have said the soldier acted alone, leaving his base in southern Afghanistan and opening fire on sleeping families. After the massacre, he went back to his base and turned himself in, officials said.
The military will not identify the soldier until charges are filed, Pentagon spokesman William Speaks told msnbc.com Monday. The suspect remains in Afghanistan while the attack is being investigated.
According to military officials, the soldier will be tried within the military justice system, not turned over to Afghan authorities for trial, rebuffing a call from Afghan lawmakers to use their courts.
Report: US soldier who massacred 16 Afghans was from Stryker brigade
The suspect is based out of Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state. He has been identified as a staff sergeant in the Stryker brigade who was taking part in a village stability operation in Afghanistan. He is a 38-year-old married father of two on his first deployment to Afghanistan after three previous deployments in Iraq.
"Based on what we’re hearing I suspect this will be prosecuted as a death penalty case," Philip Cave, a Washington-based military defense attorney told msnbc.com. "You’ve got felony murder, and certainly the number of victims and the circumstances -– very young children as victims –- I think there will be sufficient grounds to move forward as a death penalty case."
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the death penalty is a consideration as the military moves to investigate and possibly put the soldier suspected in the mass killings on trial.
The recent killings have brought great sadness to Afghanistan, and Afghan President Hamid Karzai has called the killings 'unforgiveable.' NBC's Atia Abawi reports.
Before charges are filed, the soldier will likely undergo heavy psychological testing as part of the investigation, Cave said. Then an Article 32 investigation -- a thorough examination of the case with testimony from witnesses -- will be conducted before any court-martial proceedings. If there is a conviction at court-martial with the death penalty imposed and all appeals exhausted, the president of the United States himself would have to sign the death warrant for the soldier's execution.
Retired Army platoon Sgt. Jonn Lilyea, a Desert Storm veteran who writes the blog "This Ain’t Hell," told msnbc.com he expects the military to make an example out of the shooter as the case moves through the justice system.
Mourning, anger sweep Afghanistan after massacre
Still, Lilyea cautioned that people should not rush to blame the killings on the soldier’s deployments during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"I’d wait to see if he really was in a position that would have affected him in this way," Lilyea said. "But I’m more concerned people will try to use this like they did after Vietnam with the My Lai massacre and taint all combat veterans of this generation as if they were like this one guy." Millions of Americans have served in combat, seen and done "terrible things," but have gone on to normal productive lives after their service, Lilyea pointed out.
Lt. William Calley was convicted of killing 22 villagers in My Lai village in 1968 in an incident that heightened U.S. opposition to the Vietnam War.
If the number of people slain in the attack is confirmed at 16, and the soldier is convicted, the mass killings would be the most of any convicted killer on the military’s death row, which currently has six inmates.
Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, in 2009. He also faces a possible death penalty. His trial was scheduled to begin this month but was delayed until June to allow his defense more time to prepare.
John Bennett was the last U.S. soldier to be executed by the military. He was hanged in 1961 after being convicted of the rape and attempted murder of an 11-year-old Austrian girl.
Lethal injection is the current method of execution under military justice, according to military defense lawyer Cave.
Retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, an NBC News military analyst, talks to TODAY's Matt Lauer about what could have possibly driven a U.S. soldier to kill 16 civilians, including nine children, in Afghanistan.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
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Had to be a better way to get shipped home than that.
And yet, we're going to continue to send our guys into year and a half long deployments to keep this meat grinder churning and the dopes running this war will continue to be suprised that this will keep happening.
Stay the course, right????????
Pffffffffffft.
I so agree.. I dont understand why they get surprise by these type of things if the military are the ones sending them to war. the men dont want to go but yet they still send them and now they want to kill him for what he did they should think all the pain and everything there going threw in afghan. once they get back to the U.S. yes they get paid but do they really get the treatment they deserve for all those years they where in war and see alot of people dead?? nop they sure dont! My cousin served the military and when he got killed by one of his own did he get the sentence he desrved? NO!! they just gave him a couple of years that was all cuz he was one of the guys that went to afghan.. I cant believe what this world is comming to!! :(
You're attempt at making a clever witticism is totally inappropriate.
Of course he wasn't mentally stable.....who in their right mind would have done something like that?!?!?
EllisDtripp25.....Your attempt at humor is inappropriate and shows you to be a no class person.
Okay enough. Bring them home. This guy goes to prison and/or death sentence, but let's remove the environment. We got Bin laden. It's out of control now.
"Whoever fights with monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster"
What did the Russians say 10 years ago?....oh yes...STAY OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!
If someone killed 16 people, including children, in your neighborhood, you would demand swift justice. If the military convicts this guy, why not turn him over to the Afghans?
"Soldier Accused in Afghan Massacre Could Get Death Penalty"
Well, for having murdered 16 innocent people, I should hope so!!!
This man's a scapegoat. Sure he was involved, but eyewitnesses say there were several soldiers involved and that they were drunk and laughing as they slaughtered innocent people.
Also, I love how "women and children" is constantly mentioned as if the lives of women and children are valued higher than that of a man. He killed 16 people. Who cares what they had between their legs? They were ALL defenseless, or they wouldn't be dead.
Meat grinder? 1475 US deaths in Afghanistan since 2001. On June 6th 1944 1465 US deaths during the Normandy invasion. Company B 507th Parachute Infantry Regiment 82nd Airborn Division 62% casualities in 30 days of active fighting during the Normandy invasion. Out of 136 men only 58 were not killed, missing or hospitalized in 30 days before they were returned to England. Length of service in WW2--- for the duration of the war. time the men of the 507th were away from home 3 years.
Yeah and phucking Odumbo will just relish the thought of signing that death warrant to appease his Muslim brothers and to show the world he cares not for America or their citizens either civilan or soldier
This Staff Sergeant volunteered a minimum of THREE TIMES so no way I'm buying the men "don't want to go yet they keep sending them" line (don't forget there are also plenty of women serving in harm's way). Bottom line is he VOLUNTEERED to get where he was, and at some point lost touch with the decent human being that was hopefully once inside him. The very least that has to happen if this soldier committed this act is a life sentence, but if it's determined he wasn't mentally ill, he is absolutely a candidate for the Death Penalty.
As for turning him over to Afghan authorities, I absolutely oppose that. He is a U.S. Service Member deployed overseas. He is subject to authority of the UCMJ and should be subject to a Courts Martial and whatever punishment comes as a result of that proceeding. Turning ANY Service Member over to a foreign government in an occupied nation would set a terrible precedent and mean that Service Members would be subject to the legal and or political whims of any nation they deployed to.
a complete psychiatric exam is called for; it is almost a certainly that he will be found to be mentally ill ( I hope so, since it is hard to believe a sane person would do such a thing, not like a terrorist who kills for their religion)
@Son-Of-Anubis The death warrant won't be signed to appease anything but justice. If I get in my car, drive to some neighborhood and kill 16 people... I will be put to death. It's what happens when you kill people (in many states). You're an ignorant apologist. You want this soldier to walk free? Have the rest of his life paid for by taxpayers so he can sit in prison playing spades and watching cable TV?
"Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, is accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, in 2009."
So much for "homeland" security.
Son-Of-Anubis, How long are you people going to beat that Obama is a Muslim drum? It's a lie and you KNOW IT. If you don't your a IDIOT!!! My father was a church going Catholic and I am not. Obama's father was a Muslim he was raised a Christian, fool!!! Unlike Clinton he sees no need to have his going to church being filmed as a attempt to change your opinion of him.
Devil's Son, they want it both ways. Either he's a muslim, or he used to attend a crazy pastor's church. Anyone remember Jeremiah Wright? The CHRISTIAN pastor who said some pretty inflammatory things during the 2008 election and Obama had to backpedal because he and his family attended that church for years? Which one is it repubs? He can't be both.
Saying Obama is a Muslim? Are you an Al-Quaeda member? I only ask because that sounds about as informed as someone in Al-Quaeda would be.
Didn't know the Muslim radicals were here posting on Newsvine.
This is what happens when religious fanatics try to take over. Wanting my real conservatives back please, rather than the current brand of fake ones who want to somehow pretend they are patriots.
@ Son-Of-Analbus, you stupid sicko! you think it's ok to slaughter 16 innocent people? You think that is ok? You want to blame Obama for that one soldier's killing spree. You are an idiot Go troll somewhere else, or crawl back under your rock.
@Derek-381097 I know what you mean, man. I was once a member of the republican party but since 1996, they have moved so far to the right that I'm actually LIBERAL in comparison now.. go figure. Still registered republican but I haven't voted for any of them in years...
The crime was committed in Afghanistan, so turn him over to them. This guy put every other service member abroad in peril. I can't believe that the powers continue to support this war. Pull out all troops and stop searching for wars.
I don't remember this much outrage against the Afghan military members who recently murdered some of our service members allegedly in retaliation for the Quran burnings. Live the life our military members serving in war zones where even the "civilians" can not be trusted in Afghanistan and Iraq for multiple tours, then come back and talk to us about how this is senseless.
How is it that we are not turning this man over to the Afghan government? So if this happened on our soil and the person responsible was from Afghanistan, we'd just allow their government to apologize and hand out the punishment. We need to take responsibility and hand this man over to the Afghan government. Better yet, drop him in the middle of the town and let justice be served on its own
Murderers (especially those cowards who murder children) have no place on this Earth.
Sadly, seems like the people here already have decided that all veterans are like this one guy. How many millions of people have served in the military in the last 40 years? Yet only 6 are on death row? Compare that to, say, a low income area of a large city like LA or Chicago, and tell me how many of them have committed murder..
Before you judge, consider that you have not looked at the facts, only a headline before making your assumptions.
My son is heading to basic training for the Army in 4 weeks. His last facebook post: "Well, one month to go. It's so close I can't wait. Time to pay my debt to every other soldier who fought for my freedom"
He is 18 years old, got involved in drugs and dropped out of school before hitting bottom and climbing back up onto his feet, getting his GED, and enrolling in the military. Despite his mistakes, he is far wiser than most people I have met, young or old. Don't assume that one person in hundreds of thousands is reflective of them all. Those people you condemn in your own mind are the only reason you are allowed to post your dribble on the internet today.
For those of you who think or believe we should turn the Staff Sargent over to the Afghans for justice, click the link below and see why it won't happen.
http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members
It's easy reading.
@STexan Of course you're from Texas... Nobody forced them to go. We have an ALL VOLUNTEER army. They chose their lot when they joined, and just because they do a job in miserable conditions doesn't make them "heroes" either. We worship the military in this country almost as much as we worship ancient desert gods, which is why we just can't stop funding this multi-trillion dollar enterprise. And here you are ready to explain away mass murder.... the same way they tried to in Vietnam. We're not buying it.
There will be a few bad apples in any large group of people. This in no way says anything about the vast majority of our troops, who have given their all to support this country. One of my nephews came back from his third tour a bit off; but then he was always a bit off. The military did not make him that way.
In this case, it sounds like he snapped; hard to imagine any sane person doing this. However, people in Afghanistan are not going to buy an insanity plea.
@DaveK-1110204:
Word. Your son is a good man.
It would sound like he snapped had he been killed, captured or committed suicide. To me, it sounds more like he had thought it out well before he packed up his weapon and left base to commit his atrocities and then turned himself in. He may very well get his wish and this be the straw that breaks the Afghanians and has their government ask us to leave. This soldier thought out, planned, carried out his plan before turning himself in. At the very least he should receive natural life imprisonment. In my opinion, the military should send a message not just to the Afghanians, but to the rest of our military that these atrocities will not be tolerated and this soldier be put to death.
If I smuggle drugs into Singapore, I'm going to get arrested and deal with authorities in Singapore. If I slap a cop in Paris, I'm going to find myself in a French prison. This guy MURDERED presumably innocent people in their SLEEP. I say put him through the Afghan courts and let them hang him. It'll simultaneously appease the Afghans and rid the world of a nutbag at the same time. He deserves whatever he gets.
While this is a tragedy, we could have gone about this war much differently. We could have viewed everyone in the country as complicit and accomplices because they do nothing about the bad elements in their society, carpet bombed the entire country and left 30 million dead. Then left with a warning "Never @!$%# with us again or you might be next!" And could have done that without ever setting a boot on the ground.
The last war we won was WWII. We did not apologize for killing civilians or burning a book. We went and got it done and came home. This war would have been over years ago if the media did their job of reporting instead of hyping for profit.
Where is the "Outrage" when they shoot our Soldiers in the back, where is the "Outrage when the Afghan's kill our Soldiers over paper books, these animals burn our flag, spit on our dead, drag out troops down dirt roads and dance in the streets after they kill us and what do we do, we do nothing but give them aid. Our soldiers are pissed off and mad. The American family's of our dead are sick of the military values of our troops.
@Devil's Son: You are wrong about Obama's father. It was Obama's GRANDfather who was muslim - and then only for a short time before he converted back, but did not change his name. Obama's father was an Atheist. Obama's only connection with Islam is that when his mother and step-father lived in Indonesia before he went back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents he was required to take 1 hour a week of Islamic education in the Indonesian public schools. It's been said that that is why he went back to his grandparents'. His paternal grandmother actually was Christian.
Bring them ALL home NOW!!! If you vote for anyone other than Ron Paul in November you will have future blood on your hands. (And don't give me the bulls_it phrase, "But, but.....he's an I-SOOOO-lationist!" Is Switzerland isolationist?)
If you think we should be the policemen to the world......fine.....sacrifice one of your kids (or yourself) at the alter of war.
Ron Paul 2012
Patriotic American, please change your name. You are anything but and do not represent the majority of people in this land. There is no room in any branch of our military for cold blooded murderers, period. We are not there to for that. And I'm sure you know nothing about how a soldier feels since you've probably never left your premises.
BAAAAAAA BAAAAAA we r no more than sheep and anyone doing these things needs help i see how much help is given the things we do for that 1 %
A couple points:
First, in response to anyone who would feel that this reflects on all soldiers. The mistake of blaming all veterans for the actions of a few was made post Vietnam, and we are still working on repairing those wounds. Most of the brave men and women who serve in our military are honorable individuals who are serving for all the right reasons (defending liberty, giving back to society and the country, protecting innocents around the world, etc) and they should be thanked for their service. I say this as someone who has never had the honor of serving, but who had a large number of family and friends who have served or who are currently serving.
Second, to those stating that this guy (I almost feel as if he should no longer be referred to as a soldier, soldiers fight when necessary to do their duty, they don't slaughter innocents) should be turned over to the Afghanistan government. While I understand the sentiment it will never happen and I agree with why. The fact is that the moment we turn our soldiers over to a foreign government for prosecution we are giving that government control over our military, even if at a miniscule level. There is a reason that the head Commander of NATO has always been an American General, there is a reason why when we form a coalition force to fight a conflict is is run by an American commander if US forces are to be involved. The United States will never allow it's soldiers to be under the command of a foreign government, no matter the circumstance. Like it or not we are the largest military force on earth and we do not ever, nor should we ever, submit our military to the control of anyone else.
Lastly, to those who seem to be defending this guys actions. This man walked into a village in the middle of the night and killed innocent civilians as they slept. I don't care what he has been through his actions were monstrous and he should be punished accordingly. If he does in fact have mental issues then the punishment should reflect that fact and be lessened, if he does not then I full agree that the death penalty is apt punishment.
What exactly are you saying? That it's not possible to be outraged over two injustices at the same time?
What exactly are you saying? That it's not possible to be outraged over two injustices at the same time?
Mike you have issues of course it make a difference that some of those killed were women and children. You must be a Santorum supporter.
This world is full of people needing help remember the commercials 1 in 5 have mental issues some more than others this guy snapped its is so easy to persecute than help who is sending them over there maybe start at the root of the problem do u know how many bombs have killed women and children.
@ DaveK - Tell your son I'm proud of his sentiments and proud that he was able to crawl out of the lure of drugs, a really difficult feat when you are a teenager and already on that path. Good luck and God bless him in his career in the military!
I have a nephew in the marines that is being deployed this month to Afghanistan. I am so scared but yet SO proud of him! In case anyone hasn't done the research, the Quran burning was of desecrated books, not undesecrated. It's an excuse to blame Americans and the US and so much anguish has come from it.
Something happened to this man to make him do this. Whether he is mentally unstable or not, he should not be handed over to the Afghanistan government. He SHOULD go thru due justice through our military and be punished or helped, whatever the case may be, without being made any example of.
SAXON is right a complete psych profile. I know that I would be completely capable of doing the same thing under the same circumstances. I see possible dissociative break here. The times it happened to me those that caused it were lucky I didn't have a gun. As it was I did permanent damage to someone but since he was attacking me at the time the judge threw the case out of court. That is why I do not own a gun and live 1400 miles away from my family.
Hey tonybeer #1.36, for starters I'm a Vet from 1961 - I didn't say it was OK for this guy to kill, What l meant was, hunt down the killer of our Troops at all costs. I feel the Military can do a better job getting the killers.
@Michael-528853 That is an insult and I demand you retract it! ;) But seriously, I'm a Ron Paul supporter if anything. What in all of my ranting here led you to believe I was religious/stupid enough to support Santorum?
Now tell me what the difference is in killing a man, woman, or a child? They're all people and their lives are worth the same. ALL priceless. I'll never elevate anyone over anyone else based on how long they've been here or what their particular biology happens to be. That, is called discrimination. And calling me a Santorum supporter.. I still can't get over that.... ouch dude.
Patriotic American - NO, that's not what you meant, so please don't try and spin it.
The goal has been to neutralize the Taliban and terrorists like AlQuieda. IT doesn't mean to open fire on the first Afghan citizens you see. Being an ex soldier yourself, you should know that we Americans consider our troops the very best in the world. This incident does not show that.
A majority of us just want the troops outta there asap. I believe the President has a plan to do just that. When you occupy a foreign nation, you never really get all of the killers. Dude, seriously turn off FOX news and look around. People of this country do not want our only industry to be making war.
The guy's nuts-but the trigger was probably watching Americans get gunned down for the last month with absolutely no apology from Karzai. Apparently a couple of copies of the millions of Korans out there is worth more than multiple Americans' lives.
Patriot American USA
Don't waste your time with tonybeerm - he's useless, and in my opinion, no American! And I'm with you - where's the outrage when it's our troops being brutalized and tortured? Also, I like how the article includes the word "massacre". Gee, you don't see that when it's them killing us do you?
Got rid of some little Taliban creeps. No big loss !!
Tonybeer, I don't watch Fox trash news and l agree its time to get our troops out. No spin here Tony, what's your problem ? Stop with the unnecessary barking.
The tit for tat is really sickening. There is no justification for his actions. There should be no discussion of what others have or have not done in the name of justice for other murders as being relevant. Each case must be taken in a vacuum and our morality, our sense of justice must be applied to the case. If he is found guilty then he should be punished under our law.
Trying to compare this to acts by Afghans over an incident or trying to balm the military for the acts of one man or worse trying to absolve the man because of some pathetic hatred of the military are all equally asinine.
There will always be monsters. Everyone has them; however the measure of a society is how we deal with them. Deal with them justly and we are a just society, deal with them unjustly and we are a monstrous society.
God be with the Afghans who have lost loved ones, God give light and comfort to the family of the accused in their time of heart ache, and God Bless the men and women of the US Armed forces who stand on the wall to protect us all.
If this man had come into YOUR neighborhoods and done this you would all be screaming "Death penalty". If a soldier from another country came here and did this you would also scream "Death penalty". So WHY do you act like it is unreasonable for the Afghans to want to try him in an AFGHAN court and if convicted apply the death penalty? I do not believe in the death penalty, to me it is nothing more than legalized murder.
Do I feel badly for every soldier in a war zone, yes. It is the failure of OUR leaders for us to be at war, anywhere. WHY we are still there is a mystery.... Bin Laden Is dead and the Taliban is not in power. Arm and train the Afghanistan police and army, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME and let the Afghans run their own darn country.
@Mike Schmidt: Yes, I hear you loud and clear. Ron Paul, I don't necessarily support all his views but I am thankful he is running and putting as much hurt on the faux conservatives as he can!
Hopeful American:
What part of the difference between unarmed civilians (who aren't asking to be shot) and volunteer soldiers (who accept the risk that goes along with fighting a war when they enlist) don't you understand?
Your post #133 is! Nothing but hate in there. Kill em all if they don't believe in the same things that you do. I've heard it a million times before. This country was not founded on those principles. You've brought nothing enlightening to the table.
common sense is an oxymoron
It might make a difference if the enemy actually put on a uniform. How do you propose the bad one's are weeded out when the supposed good one's are hiding them.
If you mean, i'm not a "brainwashed by FOX and totally incapable of thinking on my own" American, you're right. And why are you a Hopeful American? Are you hoping that someday you get a clue? Don't bet the farm on it, Goober.
Well there are things that don't seem to get any attention here, like the fact that they killed our soldiers over the burning of the Koran, where are those killers, do you people think shooting our men in the back off the head is any less wrong, why are they not even lifting a finger to resolve those killings, that could have pushed our troops over the edge, Yes killing the women and children was a little harsh but don't forget if they could do it to our women and children they would not hesitate for a second ... And showing the guy crying does nothing to get any sympathy from me, they created this mess so don't cry like a little girl now.
tonybeeerm;
I'm hopeful that the numbers of non-Americans like you stay in the minority! And no, you make not be "brainwashed" by FOX, but you are clearly spending a lot of time be indoctrinated by the socialist and progressive liberal ilk of CNN, MSNBC, and network whack-job news.
It really irks you people that FOX is as massively supported and watched as it is, doesn't it?! It must be so hard for you people to realize that absolutely no one, expect you people, watch the pathetic libbies!
common sense is an oxymoron said;
What part of the difference between unarmed civilians (who aren't asking to be shot) and volunteer soldiers (who accept the risk that goes along with fighting a war when they enlist) don't you understand?
Yeah, Afghanistan is just filled to the brim with people that love Americans! They've proven it time and time again! I understand, I want our boys home from fighting this waste of time. Screw trying to bring the people freedoms - let them live in their caves and continue to wipe their butts with their hands.
So when did the Afghans "@!$%#" with us again? 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were saudis who were funded by wealthy saudi's yet Saudi Arabia is a US ally. We went after the Taliban because they didn't want to give up Bin Laden and where did we find him? Pakistan who is also an ally of the US and gets billions in aid. I can see why it was so easy to convince Americans to go into two wars its sad when you think about it. Ignorance is truely bliss...
Y'know, I'd bet that even HE knows that there is no justification for what he did, unless he is so far gone that he has no lucid moments. Seriously, we get that war is tough, and we don't think it's okay when our own are killed. But, jeez ... you can't really think that there is any greater justice in this situation than this man being put to death. Do you think he expects anything different? Doubt it ... doesn't matter why he did it.
I get the sense that some defend him only because they think that doing otherwise would make them "unpatriotic". Wrong thinking. I have enough pride in my country to know that we can do better.
Heartbreaking, also, that he has two children. This will always hurt them.
They dont have to love Americans at all. What have we done for them? nothing when you really think about it. They never wanted us there in the first place they were happy in their "caves" before we got there and they will be happy after we leave. If a foreign army bombed my city and killed my family I'd strap bombs to my chest too. They love Afghanistan as much as we love America, they love their children as much as we love ours. We need to stop sacrificing our children in this pointless war
Judge for yourself... the last military execution was for the rape and attempted murder of an Austrialian girl. However after deliberating for 79 hours, the six-officer jury (five of whom had served in Vietnam) convicted Lt. Calley (who was charge of 104 accounts of murder) on March 29, 1971, of the premeditated murder of 22 Vietnamese civilians. On March 31, 1971, Calley was sentenced to life imprisonment... Now, some of you question if the penalty is too harsh????
Are you serious??? Are people of color worth less in our American eyes???
The poem For Whom The Bell Tolls by John Donne
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
Medinaa
My alternate possibility for how you should wage war was only an example of how people don't take the gravity of war seriously. I think most see it as social media as media has become. They tune in occasionally, but are distanced from the reality that what we are doing is not working and will never work. If you remove all ramifications of how horrific it is, and clean it up, it somehow becomes palatable to hear 3 of the four Republican candidates wanting to even attack another country as is the direction of our current President.
And instead of realizing the fact that we are tools and the only country that will benefit from our actions in the region is Israel after we kill a couple of million Muslims, we bang on our drums like idiots, not realizing we are being played, and those being played the most are our soldiers in the field.
Obama's war....pretty, ain't it?
You know what where is the outrage when we send our troops to Fight GOP WARS where is the outrage when our young die for the 1% lie that they will get a good mortgage a good education and a good life if they survive. I am not saying this one soldier was right or wrong. All I am saying is we should not be sending our TROOPS to Fight Some Holy WAR
You want to go go ahead and fight against the whatever religion (add it here) but leave our Nations Troops out of that crap. This Loony Killed women and children no matter there RACE Religion or Nationality
That's a monster there was no threat they were sleeping fricken idiots with a lack of respect for human life. He should be hung or just shot. He is no better than a terrorist. The USA is better than that even if some of our idiot citizens speak different we stand up against this type of Insanity.
Any bastard who kills kids deserves HELL No less
Don't turn him over to the Afghans, he needs to face his consequences here as an American. Say what you will, but he did serve other successful tours until this one. Is he a murderer? Yes!!! If it is the death penalty, then be it. He is an American, and needs to be buried in America regardless of the crimes he commited during our occupancy in foreign policy and politics.
Well Tony, I hate to call a duck a duck - you don't watch Fox News but I'm sure you're buying everything MSNBC news says hook, line and sinker. This site has a firm left agenda, the same as Fox has a right one. If you subscribe to one over another, then your opinion is heavily compromised.
We should have bailed out of that septic system last May when we had the chance, it cant be won there is nothing there to win, over ten years and we haven't accomplished to train those people to self govern and defend against the Taliban. It looks like we never will, we accomplished what we started, its time to tell them they have to take it from here, its time to pull out all US forces, suspend all aid and start fixing our own problems. as far as the murderer goes we need to be swift and hard on him he deserves no leniency, he has done to much damage.
Why is Nidal Malik Hasan (I'll skip the Maj. part) still around?!?! One in the head and two in the chest and let's move on folks. This Islamic bastard should not enjoy being on death row. If we shipped him back to the Afghanstan court system, they would probably immediately release him and give him a metal.
Get out of that $hithole now!!
If he is guilty then he deserves the firing squad.
Honestly if he is guilty, I say turn him over to a crowd of afgans and let them met out justice. Killing children deserves the worst possible death for the killer in my mind.
IMO - anyone in a place of war that will kill women and children does not have their mental faculties straight. Gut feel this soldier snapped/brokedown. If anyone of us can get really stressed in rush hour traffic, how much more for our military men and women. We can all pray for all of them, and end this war. Time to get out.
Mob rules. Sandy sounds like an occupier.
But to have the presence of mind to leave the base, kill people, return and turn himself in? Sounds like he was competent enough to select his targets and also competent enough to know he had done something wrong. A real crazy person wouldn't think to turn himself in, because in his mind he wouldn't have done anything wrong.
They get lethal injection. The army has a soldier being held in the Federal Prison in Terre Haute Indiana awaiting his death sentence right now.
That's so true. When the terrorist attacks happened here, September 11th, Underwear Bomber, Fort Hood, as a nation, we wanted their heads. When Osama Bin Laden was killed, there were celebrations in the streets. Now the coin has flipped and its an American who has committed the crime in another country. We wanted their heads, now they should be able to have his head.
As Americans, we feel like we are superior to everyone else. From all the disrespect we show, when soldiers pee on the dead, burn their bibles, rape their women, and now shooting women and especially children in their sleep, this is not the way to show superiority. Its just shows we are just as bad as they are. People need to understand that even the greatest people need help and need to be shown that there's a better path to take.
He needs to be tried for war crimes and executed soon afterward. Death row takes way too long in civilian court and it could take so long that execution becomes pointless.
QUOTE: " I love how "women and children" is constantly mentioned as if the lives of women and children are valued higher than that of a man"
Schmidt, Schmidt... Funny, that doesn't sound like a Moslem name.
The best thing we can do is that we have justice for all. Ours and theirs. People in the US might have asked for the heads of other people, but the fact is that we like to think of ourselves as a nation of laws, and no one is above the law. Let's live up to it.
Give him a speedy and fair trial according to our principles, and let the world see that we don't ask anyone to live up to something that we ourselves will not.
Actually we don't use bullets anymore. The guys who have to shoot another soldier end up with psychological problems. We do lethal injection just like most states.
Nobody in their right mind would kill a family even during war time. This soldier was NOT in his right mind. US soldiers are educated to know right from wrong. Afghan soldiers do not have the same set of guidelines. They are NOT educated to know better. I do not think Americans are better, but they most definitely are more educated. So in that respect they are more superior. If Afghans were educated they would be able to at least consider the fact this this soldier went nuts. Unfortunately they are condemning these horrific actions as if the soldier was of sound mind. We can't expect the Afghan people to be able to consider mental competence. They only know revenge which is primal and lacking education.
He should be handed over to the Afghan government for his execution. That would be the only way to pacify them.
If this individual is indeed guilty, it will be because he will be tried under the UCMJ (Uniform Code Of Military Justice). If and when he is tried, it will be under American justice and legal procedures, not under the mob rule lynching mentality prevalent under Sharia Law in Afghanistan and the Middle East. As someone with 20 years of military service, that includes Vietnam and the !st Gulf War, I have seen more than my share of the horrors of combat. But I cannot comprehend or condone what this man may have done. If the man was considered sane at the time of his actions after psychiatric examination, then yes I believe he deserves the death sentence, but only under American supervision. not Afghanistan! I know some of the more liberal minded people posting here will most likely vilify me for my comments and they are entitled to their opinions the same as me. If they do not like what I wrote, then so be it.
We dont know why he did this, could he maybe had a breakdown from seeing his fellow soldiers getting killed by so called civilians (Taliban that dress as civilians) and then try to kill our soldiers, Maybe seeing how we are there and they are being hampered by ROE's, trying to fit in with a different culture and not offend them as they are constantly being targeted and threatened, in many cases unable to defend themselves UNTIL they are fired at. What needs to be done is remove our men , bring them home and solve the problem without putting so many of their lives in danger when it is not needed! Instead bomb the crap outta them ,Karzai is against us at every step, why are we defending him? we are talking about giving them back control of the prison AFTER releasing 5 Taliban members from Gitmo to Afghanistan's prison. We apologize for some Korans being burned, Who apologized when our troops are capture, tortured or beheaded, who apologized when they were celebrating in the streets when the twin towers fell? Carpet bomb the country, go in and recover whatever resources we can (there is no oil there) to recover our costs instead of wasting our time losing men and spending money rebuilding there country so they can continue to target our men and talk about wanting our destruction. Until we are actually willing to allow our troops to do what they need to protect themselves and finish it this will continue to happen.
When we quit rebuilding these countries and they know they can be beaten and left with even less then they have now then we will have a chance at negotiating with some of them. WHY IN 2004 did Iran halt nuclear ambitions, We went into Iraq and they worried we would continue into Iran, Today they have no fear of us doing anything so they continue with threats to Israel and closing the Straights, Did nation building in Iraq work??? NO just the other day they stoned to death teenagers. LETS STOP NATION BUILDING AND START ACTUALLY MAKING THINGS SAFER BY MAKING THEM REALIZE WHAT WE CAN REALLY DO!!!!
Our economy is terrible, The Dollar keeps losing value, yet we spend billions to HELP police a country and rebuild it? Quit wasting soldiers lives and our money, If they are a true threat ELIMINATE the threat, destroy the country take what we can to recoup costs and leave them in rubble so they cannot pose a threat anytime soon again.
Get OUT!
There is no good reason for "innocent people to be killed" Yet the Afghan's can send there own men,women, and children into markets or populated areas with bombs and kill 50-100 people thats ok, or send people to this country and kill how many innocent men,women on 9/11. did the afghan people hand over Osama hell no so why would we turn any soldier over to themfor any reason. The biggest mistake the soldier made was not taking his own life which would have made the "Propaganda" or story last a couple of days and then it would be old news
“Beware the military industrial complex”, Dwight Eisenhower
When Bush invaded the Middle East he never raised taxes to pay for the war instead he cut taxes and turned a Federal surplus in to a deficit overnight. The American revolutionary war was partially fought because King George wanted to raise taxes on the colonies to pay for the French-Indian war which was very expensive for England he didn’t want to raise taxes in England. WARS ARE EXPENSIVE and we have been in the Middle East now for a decade spending trillions to ensure profits for oil companies at the expense of everyone else and I don’t see the military accomplishing much of anything other than bankrupting the country. Yet the military industrial complex persists in wanting to develop and fund Billion dollar weapon systems that even the pentagon doesn’t want and that will never be used and maintaining military bases around the world that are not needed. If we keep this pace up we won’t have to spend anything on the military because what’s left of this country won’t be worth defending.
Just GET OUT! Who cares what these animals do to one another after we are gone. If they want to kill each other let them if it makes them happy. If they ever pose a threat to us again... well 24 X 7 bombing ought to take care of the problem.
Maybe he wants to die but can't do it on his own
Ya know this sounds a lot like the suicide by cops deal the Vietnam vets were accused of...
If he would have only shot Karside and his hoodlum brother....you ca hope...
Killing kids is way @!$%#ed up...he should be tried in the US and detained....
My heart grieves at the loss of so many innocent lives in this callous murder, can we bear any more losses if the Afghans seek revenge? Isn't life precious any more? Ask the families who get left behind.
I feel so sorry for the wife and children of the soldier, having to live with nightmares and dark thoughts for the rest of their lives. The military must undertake complete psychological testing of the soldier to mitigate his actions.
Full investigation is also required to learn if the soldier himself is a "victim" of the incessant greed of the huge military industrial complex, Big Oil, Big Money, hungry warmongers, possible perpetrators of this evil deed. Was this part of the right wing conspiracy during election year to disrupt the President's efforts for a face saving withdrawal from the arena to bring the troops home?
Was money offered to the soldier in offshore accounts with promises of best legal defense in case of court martial proceedings? Are recent misdemeanors like urinating on corpses and burning of holy books part of the strategy? Just askin'.
In defense on our service men and a rebuttal to killing women and children. Many civilize nations say women and children are off limits. Unfortunately, there are many nations and combatants out there that do not take the same position.
Using children in war started long before Vietnam, in fact during WWII Hitler used teenagers. My cousin was in the 9th Armored Division, fought in the Battle of the Bugle and was at the Zigfried line, etc. While doing a sweep and clean of a village he was walking along the side of a house, when he reached the back he turned in towards the back. Out of the back door was a German soldier wearing an SS insignia. He lifted his .45 Thompson and squeezed the trigger. When he approached the soldier he could see he was young, like REAL young, maybe 14 was his guess. He lived with that until his death.
In Vietnam the young did not wear a uniform. The women would walk up and toss a hand grenade into a mess tent, etc. The enemies our service men face today do not wear uniforms, they do not discriminate on whether their soldiers are women or children. They teach their children to fight and kill.
If you're on the street in America and a 12 years walks down the street with a gun shooting people, what would you want the police to do? If the youth started tossing hand grenades, killing people left and right, would be YOUR course of action (besides RUN).
There are those out there that have taken any honor out of war....meaning, no one is scared. Americans try to pride ourselves that we are humane. In war there seems to be no humanity, at least anymore.
So before we become too judgmental, ask yourselves this; What if this was one of those families where everyone is out to kill. What if these children and women were part of the enemies killings machine? War is hell.....my cousin said he would never fight again. It used to turn his stomach to hear politicians talk about war and going to war. He said only those who've never been in a battle, and never killed people or saw friends blown into pieces, only these types of people talk about going to war so freely. They generally have nothing to lose he said.
There's no excuse for murder.....but without the guidelines of some formal attire, who's the enemy? And when do we say, these women and children are NOT combatants. This will happen when our cowardly enemies stop using women and children to fight their battles for them.......peace
It's desperation that causes it. Hitler used kids in his war because he was running out of people to fight in his army and in desperation had to recruit young and old. In vietnam its a little different, the British condemed the guerilla tacticts used by the Americans during the revolution because they seen it as cowardly and unfair yet the Americans liked it because the British army was the most powerful army at that time and standing toe to toe with them was a loosing fight 9 times out of 10. In vietnam the US was (and still is) the most powerful army in the world so now the roles are switched. No army in the world can stand toe to toe with the US army so like in vietnam the afghans are going to fight us the only way they can which is to use deplorable tactics. I think instead of throwing all the blame on this one soldier we should toss some blame on the people who sent them there. If this war never happened or at least managed right from the start thousands of American soldiers would still be alive and this man would probably be at home with his family.
He lined up children and SHOT them, wrapped them in blankets , burned them and you're trying to rationalize it?? What kind of sick piece of crap are you?
JC-52572 You have said it perfect! I agree with you 100%. I would like to say: who knows if the people killed by the U.S. Solider were trained to kill. They may have killed people in the U.S. Military before and killed others as well. Very great post by JC-52572!! God Bless The People who served past and present in The U.S. Military!!!
Here is a question to "If he did it" crowd - Did you say the same for Saddam and for Osama? Did you ask "if he did it". But your wiseass immediately guessed that this guy afterall may not even have commited this. The funny thing is - they don't have know who tihs guy is ... but you figured that may be just may be he did it .... but otherwise he is innocent. Shame on you.
OMG there is enough piece of crap on this forum who are trying to rationalize it. Teabaggers, what else?
Let me ask you this -
How many people and children a soldier kills before he gets death penalty? Is 9 children and 7 adults enough? If your answer is no - then you probably are those Nazi m..f---rs.
PJ-1795048 I hate to tell you war is hell. Things happen that no one understands. Why do the Taliban kill their own. Why do we kill our own Pat Tillman. Why the Hell did Joesph Duncun kill all those people in Northern Idaho including several children. You can blame the teabaggers all you want but when it come right down to it Obama promised to pull out of Iraq and Afganistan when he was elected. We are out of Iraq but NOT Afganistan. Blame Obama and tell him to PULL ALL TROOPS OUT. Lets not kill anymore of anyone.
I don't rationalize anything. I am not god and I refuse to judge anyone. All I ask is to PULL OUR TROOPS.
BikeBoy - couldn't agree more on War is Hell and Troop Pullout.
I would also like to say - tragedy is tragedy no matter which side it lies. We are all connected and Karma gives us our dues in some shape or form. So it is important that we never lose the human perspective.
I'm not trying to rationalize his actions at all, he turned himself in so it would appear that he knew right from wrong. If this had happened here that would be evidence that proves he knew right from wrong so mental illness would probably be a lot less useful as a defense and if found guilty would most definately get the death penalty for walking into peoples homes and killing them as they sleep. Now that I cleared that up its nice to see soo many people outraged by this. 16 civilians dead is a lot so imagine how many thousands of civilians were killed in the passed ten years. Is it 100, 1,000, 10,000, 100,000? I bet its a lot. So where is all the anger for all them? how many more children do you think that makes up. I know people try to say that its the nature of war and it cant be helped. From the beginning this war was handled so badly by a few individuals and now we are all finally able to see the results. Imagine having a family member constantly going back and fourth between home and war. When they go your worse fear is that they never come back. I bet its a terrible feeling and since this war is so long they have to go through that over and over again. There are over 1,000 families who lost a loved one or loved ones in this war alone. Or imagine going to the store one day to get groceries only to go back home to find your house bombed and everyone in it dead because you lived next to a "stretegic target". Im just saying there is a lot of pain on both sides of this war and there are people who bear some responsability for that pain who dont seem to get much attention.
Medinaa - guerrilla warfare is an effective tool. My focus isn't so much on that as it is on our enemies using children and women in the fashions that they do. But yes they stoop to the loosest degrees. Hitler was desperate, the Viet Cong were desperate, the terrorists are desperate but nothing of that is good enough of an excuse to use women and children......peace
Thanks Joshe
mjordan where did you get your information from? It said he went in while they were sleeping and shot them. You have different sources? It still doesn't change the position of my post.
QUOTE: " I love how "women and children" is constantly mentioned as if the lives of women and children are valued higher than that of a man"
I could't have said it better. I bet you folks who are asking for him to be handed over to the Afghans have never worn a uniform before. And you got no respect for those who have the courage to wear it.
He's facing a near certain death penalty, and that should be justice enough. I'll also go so far as to say the life of a soldier is worth more than theirs. (And coincidentally Nidal Malik Hasan hasn't got his needle yet).
Is he a murderer? Yes. Do I want him to face the death penalty for this? Yes, but don't hand him to the Afghans. Let him face court martial and face consequences for his actions in America. He was an American solider, you can't let him get buried in Afghanistan where his remains will most likely be desecrated. He did have successful tours berfore this incident, you can't just all of a sudden treat him like a monster, he has a wife and children. PTSD got the worst of him. If he is handed to the Afgans, then I have truly lost hope in our government.
".... the life of a soldier is worth more than theirs ...."
Worth? Using the scales that weigh bullion and Rocky Mountain oysters, of course .... certainly not the scales of justice on Judgement Day!
Crazy war conditions in Afghanistan had made the soldier insane.
So at most he can be treated in a mental hospital.
Before the soldier is tried, try those who pushed these poor and helpless soldiers to do somebody else's dirty jobs!
Four combat deployments back to back. No wonder he snapped. This is why there should be a policy across the military. At the most 3 combat deployments back to back. I had a sergeant when I was in Afghanistan, he was on his fourth back to back combat tour. I could see the signs of PTSD, in his outburst and random acts. Absolutely not acceptable. The military should look into it. Some of these guys look for deployments back to back like this because they think they're hard-core. They don't know their own limitations, and that is when they end up pushing themselves beyond the brink. I'll say it again, because this has been on my mind even before this happened. No one in the military should serve 4 combat deployments back to back like that. Period. It should be policy, to prevent things like this at home and abroad!
John Doe very good point similar to workaholics. They think they can work, work, work without a break and if asked if they need time off or a rest they'll say no. I know this because I did it. Worked 2 yrs worth of hours in 1 year, thought everything was okay but my judgement was seriously impaired. It took me about a year in a half to regain my focus. Personally I was shocked that it had that type of affect on me but that realization didn't come for until two years later. This was here at home in a business that severed our military but again here at home and not in a combat zone. Peace
PTSD may be true ... but then its application is not uniform. Could a Nazi soldier have PTSD in his days? Or only the winning side reserves the right to PTSD?
When you think about it PTSD has become an escape route to disguise the immoralities of the side. May be Iranians have a different name for PTSD.
Over here when we hear PTSD ... we go ... yeah sure the kid is sufferring PTSD.
Could a Nazi soldier have PTSD in his days?
Back then, they called it "shell shock." And, yes, anyone could suffer from it, even Nazis.
Three dramas going on in parallel.
1. The Quran and killing of civilians. In Afghanistan, demands/screams are: withdraw, no use war (it took 11 years for some to understand).
2. Syrian rebels backed by the Sunni Saudi al-Qaida, Muslim Brotherhood and the whole gang of Sunni rich Arab rulers liberally throwing monies around weeping, crying for help and so on. Screams: arm the rebels, bust the Assad, blow up with drones and so on! After all “kids are kids”, “humans first” and so on. By the by, the US soldiers are not human!
3. Scare and war mongers led by the Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists are looking for WMDs in Iran (which they missed until the end in Iraq) demanding: use the “Big Bomb”, use drones, missiles and so on. Oil prices have started zooming again making Saudis and their companies richer and richer!
Sorry: people don’t get it. They are all Obama’s fault!
He doesn't sound like much of a "soldier" to me... He sounds a little more like a killer. Just because he's in uniform does NOT give rights to go wild and kill everyone. Fourth deployment or not. Stop re-enlisting if you can't handle it.
One can easily tell the never had to serve or work hard people here from the realists. As in any death investigation there is always the possibliity of the death penalty but whatever the verdict is it needs to come from a military court. If this administration with its appologizing for American habit even thinks about letting there be a trail by Afghanistan courts in this matter then there needs to be immediate impeachment proceedings.
Hello folks! I don't know if the soldier will get the death penalty but the U.S. reputation around the world has!
The stress of war has to be considered. This guy evidently flipped out and needs hospitalization. We can't fix what he did and maybe we can't fix him, but we can get the hell out of Afghanistan NOW! Like Vietnam, this is another war we have lost. Bring them all home before we destroy more lives. Try to imagine foreign soldiers in the USA trying to make us into them.
Well, of course the Taliban is going to threaten to retaliate over the killings of the civilians as that is all they know how to do! These soldiers are asked to do many psychologically difficult tasks every day. Can you imagine how this can adversly affect a soldier? Killing innocent civilians is no excuse, but this is a consequence of some sort of metal break-down that unfortunately does occur. Lets not forget how the Taliban have taken innocent lives of not only men, but also women and children in our own country in the event of 911.
The U.S. needs to get the soldiers, and troops out of Afghanistan. We can't impose our ways on them. They are living in such a different way than our country. We have accomplished our official goals, now we need to get them back home to protect our country from within. Otherwise the killings of our heros are senselessly going to continue as well as tragic events as the killings of women and children in Afghanistan.
After reading the headlines about the US soldier who shot up
Afghanistan civilians, I couldn’t help noticing an irony. There is
all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind
his having suffered a traumatic brain injury.
Yet this Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming Allah
akbar, still hasn’t stood trial, and they are still debating whether
he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive:
slay as many infidels as possible. So we have a guy in a war zone
who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.
But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe
office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to
argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from
listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience. Two and
a half years later, they still haven’t tried the murderous bastard.
This was sent to me in an email thought I would pass it along......
Eye for an eye, just like what happened to our troops when the Koran burning protests went violent...
I agree what happened after the Qu'ran burnings was heinous and I also acknowledge that at some point we are all someone's child. However, the 9 children involved in this incident were complete innocents. As a father who has lost a child to SIDS, I know the pain of losing a child all too well and abhor the death of any child by any means. I can't imagine what I would want to do to a person had they been my child's killer. So no...I don't feel it's eye for an eye.
Yep, there is a huge difference between the murder of a professional soldier in an occupying force and the unprovoked murder of innocent civilian children by a professional soldier.
Yes and he will be tried by a military tribunal with a possible death sentence. Since the one who shot up Fort Hood and killed 13 is still being tried it may take awhile. But then We do want American justice for a soldier who shot muslims equal with that of a muslim soldier who shot up his own base don't we.
Do any of you know anybody that has had a breakdown? Do you really think a father of two children himself would take out children if he was of sound mind?
"Accused GI could get death"
The Army and the media immediately demanded death to the soldier who killed hostile Muslims. I am sure that it was done by the order of Obama. But I do not remember any article title where a death was demanded for the Muslim who killed 13 innocent Americans in Fort Hood, in the country which gave to this worthless Muslim everything.
It seems that for Obama lives of Muslims are much more precious than lives of Americans.
of couse Ivan, what time is sundown on you planet?
I agree with " theboys" Too many tours in the combat zone with too little of a break. Perhaps this is why there should be a draft. More men and longer breaks. I undrestand the ideal on "volunteers", but, do they really expect to spend all their tour in combat. Lets let some of these so call rich little boys fight for their country for a change.
Me, I would give him a medal. Tired of these @!$%#s shooting our people, burning our bibles, burning our flags and disrespecting our nation.
I wrote not clearly in the previous post. Please disregard it. A corrected version is below:
"Accused GI could get death"
The Army and the media immediately demanded death to the soldier who killed hostile Muslims. I am sure that this talk about a death to the soldier is made by the order of Obama. But I do not remember any article title where a death was demanded for the Muslim who killed 13 innocent Americans in Fort Hood, in the country which gave to this worthless Muslim everything.
It seems that for Obama lives of Muslims are much more precious than lives of Americans.
@Ivan Smith-1939833
Are you serious, or just trolling? How do you extract 'could get death (death penalty) to the Army and the media demanding his death? By order of Obama? Are you for real?
And just to debunk your statement a quick Google search shows several articles stating that the Ft. Hood shooter will face the death penalty if convicted.
For the victims' families and those wounded in the Fort Hood shooting rampage, news that the suspect will face a military trial and the death penalty came as no surprise.
???!!?? WTF IVAN SMITH to sit there and blame the future of this murderer, I can not even call him a soldier due to the fact it is an insult to the true American soldiers, onto Obama is ludicrous besides being absolutely stupid on your part!!! To accuse Obama of being a Muslim is very stupid on your part, also! This murderer has endangered the lives of every single soldier in Afghanistan and everywhere else in the Middle East. To excuse this man for murder by using the Taliban as an excuse is unacceptable!!! This man walked into a home and proceeded to kill 16 people; men, women and children, here he would be called a mass murderer. The so called Muslim you were talking about at Fort Hood was an AMERICAN SOLDIER IN FACT HE WAS A MAJOR IN THE ARMY!!!! He was an AMERICAN!!!! For anyone to state that this was a justifiable killing needs to have their head examined. I am proud of all of our great American soldiers but we all know there will always be a few that will try to tarnish the image of the many. I hope this man is brought to swift justice for the sake of the soldiers that are still in the Middle East.
To all in this line please read my post above
Let us first give the death penalty to the terrorists in our custody before we impose it on this soldier.
This man is not a warrior. He is a callous killer of people -- non-combatants -- children and women sleeping in their beds. He gives only dishonor to those who uphold our ideals of what it means to be a "hero." And anyone who disagrees doesn't understand what it means to have our flag embroidered just below his shoulder.
Reasonable, two options:
1. He is a troll and sucks at it, which is pretty pathetic because trolling is the easiest profession around on the Internetz
2. He is just another pathetic, brain washed individual that thinks all Muslims are enemy combatants regardless of gender or age.
Either way we need less people as delusional as Ivan in this country or which ever country he is from if he is not from the US.
Ivan it is obvious your a Muslim hater, you could have said Obama puts lives of Afghans over Americans, but you posted the word "Muslm" twice. Get you head straight, how would you like it if a British solider occupying your land "claiming" they are looking for terrorists came and killed 16 of your neighbors who even he knew were not terrorists. This man needs to be court marshaled and face the consequences in America. Although, saying that, I regretthe consequences his wife and children will face being without a husband and father.
Jc that still not justifies the murder of 16 people.
Agree with FreeThinker, his past service record bears no weight upon his actions, if he indeed is responsible for the murder of 16 people including 9 women and children.
Michael: You know the penalty for treason, right?
George Sr: First time ...
Michael: I never heard of a second.
George Sr: I have the worst f***ing lawyers
Would you care to let the military justice system work first? You know that unusual thing called a trial? With lawyers and all that just like in the movies.
@ Lobereb: Hence the use of terms such as 'if he indeed is responsible for the murder of'. I simply agree that such acts should be susceptible to the death penalty.
TyrionImp I know the penalty for treason. She is still alive and walking around. Try Jane Fonda. POS.
Islam up in arms becuase 16 people die in Afganistan by American hands, Iraqis kill 19 kids by smashing their skulls in with bricks because of their "emo" style of dress. Hypocrites.
Yes. because just like other abrahamic religions, all of Islam is exactly the same. There's absolutely no difference between Iraq and Afghanistan. *rolls eyes*
Hey, tell it to Murphy and Freethinker.
Look up "dhimmi" while you are at it- guess whose pictures pop up!
Meanwhile the Americans drag minorities to death behind pickups and crucify gays on fenceposts. Hypocrites.
BS
My thoughts exactly!! In addition, they threatened any other teen that would dare defy them. Is that justified?
I believe this soldier should be punished, but not by the them. Bring him home and set the bar that this behavior will not be tolerated. There are many issues here that need to be addressed, not just this incident. First and foremost, get the hell out of all foreign countries and take care of our own. They will not be changed by us being there. This is, and always has been, a war that cannot be won, since it has been going on for hundreds of years. A war of religion cannot be won!
To all the posters who are critical of our country, why don’t you leave? There are many foreigners that want to be here (legally or illegally) so they can have the freedoms conveniences they do not have in their own country! Including the Aphganis (sp?), Iraqis, and Iranians! Go figure!
Instead of bitching, be part of the solution! Most Americans would rather sit back and complain!
BTW: I was military married to military and come from a military family. My brother is a Viet Vet. I know people who have been sent overseas several times, even though they had been in mental health care in between tours. Who the hell made that decision?
Blind,
We also let some parents teach their kids to passive aggressively push some gay kids to commit suicide by ostracizing them and bulling them at school. As American's some of us think we are the @!$%# to end all @!$%#s on this planet when really we are no better then the Arab people, Africans, Asians, or any other demographic. Not being able to admit that makes them ignorant, possibly even arrogant. The only reason America is what it is today is because of our freedoms. Not because of some innate gift from God, or blessing or something. We have always been one of the freest countries in the world, and that freedom has always lead to prosperity.
Place a dictatorship here in 1776 and I could almost guarantee that we would be in the same boat as some of these Middle Eastern countries.
So his 4th deployment anybody not understand why he went bat sh*t crazy ?
The vast majority of the deployed troops stay in bases and never even set foot in the field; it's not enemy fire which cracks them, it's boredom and being separated from their families.
But what kind of duty did he see during his previous deployments? Maybe he's just a mean ass that wanted to kill some people. Wait and see.
there you go, reason. Let's wait and see before passing judgement and speculating his reasoning.
4 times in ten years I'd have been f--king nuts a long time ago. Reason same kind different sandbox.
I think 4 deployments is a lot .
Anybody know any cops personally that live where this is considerable danger? I once was good friend with a few cops in a town with a very high murder rate. These young cops over a very short period of time changed a lot. What would have been considered grizzly when they first were rookies became almost a laughing matter. They use to look for hours at pics taken at crime scenes. I saw a few pics and to this day, 40 years later I can see see those dead people in those pics.
Do not be so harsh. Think of this soldier's wife and children and parents. Think how you would feel if your husband went nuts and killed innocent children. Justice? Put a madman to his death? Sad. No fixing what went wrong. Equally imagine how the other soldier serving must feel.
It does not matter what happen in previous tours or how many tours he has done. He has to take responsibility for his actions and that responsibility bears the death penalty is he is found guilty, which is very likely.
I agree this was a horrible crime and this soldier needs to face justice [in the USA; according to the UCMJ], but I wonder how much of this story remains untold. Pure speculation here, but I sense something likely out of; or beyond his control had to spark this period of insanity. Four deployments into war zones in such a short time span are too much, but something had to occur to snap him suddenly like this. Having been in the Military Medical Field for 20+ years, I speculate it is possible something from back home he couldn’t deal with from where he was at the time … sparked this uncontrollable rage. My sympathies to his victims, the families of his victims, his own family back here in the USA, and yes, to him too. All of our people need to be brought home, and stop sending our money over there. Those folks don't want us there, I doubt our people want to be there. Let the Arab world police their own, and fund them too.
Question, why is Nidal Malik Hasan still alive? He should have been put to death already for his Foot Hood massacare
He's still alive because we're not primitive scum like the taliban.
Throw, Hasan has GONE through the court process, no such thing with the Taliban. To equate the two is naivite at best
I'll agree to that, except there are still appeals and all that, just like in civilian court.
He's still alive because we are fortunate enough to live in a country that has respect for the rule of law, and guarantees everyone due process under the law.
The alternative - vigilantism, lynch mobs and summary executions in the streets.
Because he hasn't been tried yet!
I think the number of appeals should be limited to 1 in the event there is overwhelming evidence, i.e. beyond a shadow of doubt. Usually this would take videos, eyewitnesses, AND bullets that can be traced to his gun.
If we're going to execute this man then we would have, also, to consider executing the US Army Major Hasan [Psychiatrist] who shot all of those young people on the army base where he served.
I remember that have relatives at Ft.Hood. He hasn't even been tried yet. I think he shot up civilians too. I could ask my cousins.
Nov. 5th,2009 USArmy MAJOR NIDAL HASAN PSYCHIATRIST BETRAYED THEN MURDERED 13 Un-Armed U S Soldiers & wounded 32 more at Ft. Hood, Texas
Major Hasan was assigned to Help the Returning Combat Veterans with PTSD issues & Traumatic Brain Injuries. Instead He turned against His Fellow Soldiers & MURDERED Them.
If there was ever a case that justifies DEATH by FIRING SQUAD then This is It.
This SSgt from Ft. Lewis Washington should face the Firing Squad also after his court marshal.
There is NO HONOR IN KILLING UN-ARMED WOMEN & CHILDREN.
He has Betrayed Himself & His Fellow Soldiers & this act will get more Americans Killed.
I'm sure the Taliban are making Plans for that as we speak.
We need to Get the Hell OUT of AFGHANISAN NOW ! Not 2013 or 2014 Get OUT NOW.
SPW "Airborne"
Its sad that so many condemn that muslim american you mention without looking behind his motivations. Like the fact every one he shot was part of a group reported for gang raping a local muslim american girl but had that report swept under the rug as most sexual assaults are. Imagine being the head doc and hearing these men first hand recount such evil under the protection of doctor patient confidentiality. That guys reasons for snapping are no less then this poor christian american soldier who lost it finally. This entire modern day crusade combined with liberal PC BS is tearing our nation apart instead of melding it together as we once did.
I dont know when or why immigrants stopped coming here with the attitude of cultural assimilation being wrong instead of expected, but it has to stop. People coming here should freely and happily keep some simple aspects of thier homeland traditions, but things like religious based governments are not actual spiritual groups but political ones. When you come to a new land follow the old saying and when in rome do as the romans.
Interesting point Mordrrakk about the gang rape thing, I just researched online and found no proof. I would love to hear more of your theory if you can muster some proof please.
Complete load of crap, mordrrakk. Hasan shot 43 people, including a civilian and a pregnant servicewoman. There was no rape of a local girl behind it.
Wow got to love our military for just making things better...stupid ass. He needs to be hung.
One single Solider snapping does NOT "make our military". Hasan did not "make our military" on his Foot Hood Rampage, although a dead Hasan would make the world better, including the military
Kurt - weird, I could hae sworn our military invaded and occupied two nations based on the actions of a few...as if those two nations had any control over those few, or were even involved...but mostly, they didnt care how connected or not connected they were...they just didnt mine making all those iraqi's and afghanistan bear the brunt of our frustration...and naturally, since the 10th graders of america were SCREAMING for revenge and blood...what were our choices?
we werent going to invade and occupy saudi arabia, were nearly all of them were actually from! oh heck no, they'd have screwed us even more royally on gas prices than they are now.
we aint no dummies...or are we?
Stephanie, I'm pretty sure you mean "Hanged".
"Hung" means something else entirely,,,,Just sayin'
QUOTE: "Stephanie, I'm pretty sure you mean "Hanged"."
These days? Don't be too sure.
Well maybe we didn't invade Saudi Arabia because everybody in the country named BinLaden apologized and begged forgiveness. Our apologizer in chief could take lessons they did a real fancy job of it while getting their kids out of the American colleges they were attending. Stephanie you are so technologically backward the military uses lethal injection just like most of the states do.
QUOTE: "the military uses lethal injection just like most of the states do."
Really? When have they done this?
YADA-YADA-YADA- how about some mental health counciling instead. If you were getting shot at for four years straight, you'd be a little nudgy too.
Ok , he shot up some civilians- this is a small percentage of what the Taliban do every DAY to their own people, but nobody complains about that.
We usually pay $10,000 a pop for killing "innocent" civilians ( see if you can pick them out of a lineup...) so the survivors are now set for life.
Ahh yes, and obviously the message the US and it's military wants to convey is, we're no better than the Taliban. Great thinking.
Who's to say that he ever got shot at? We don't know anything about the guy.
Ya no big deal, he only killed 9 children in their sleep. People all over the world die everyday, why should he get more than a slap on the wrist?
Wow! I feel bad for the parents of this soldier.
Me, too...but don't forget that he is "a married father of two". His wife and kids have some tough times ahead.
I thought the same thing. Imagine what his parents, wife, and children are going to have to deal with.
Well personally if I was related to this soldier, then if and when his name is made public, Id be demanding something akin to government funded witness relocation. Because seriously in this day and age some freak could go jihad on them and then win in court knowing how biased the system has gotten.
Not long ago 2 black boys fresh off the boat from africa burned a white american boy to death while shouting anti white slurs. No hate crime charges attached, and because they are like 14 and 15, no talk of a needle in either arm.
mordrrakk, seriously, what does that have to do with this case? This guy doesn't deserve to walk freely again. He is a cold blooded murderer and no better than the Taliban he was sent there to fight. How can anyone with a single grain of decency shoot children while they are sleeping? We need to get rid of this guy as he has no place in American society ever again. I applaud the 99% of our soldiers who are making us proud but it only takes one scum bag like this guy to ruin the good name of the 99% of our soldiers. It really bothers me how many on this board support what this guy did... those people need psychiatic care as well! I hope to God none of them are my neighbors!!
descrs, I think mord was talking about witness protection for his family, not the soldier.
If verdicts of previous atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan are anything to go by, he'll get 15-20 years, with parole after half time served.
Take a look at Lt Calley's wikipedia page. All he really ended up doing was serving only three and a half years of house arrest in his quarters at Fort Benning. Then he was a free man.
This guy did his crime while waving the U.S. flag to the whole world. He made himself a voluntary celebrity.
Calley was not eligble for the death penalty. The Army stopped executing soldiers from 1961 until Ronald Reagan issued a executive order saying they could.
ageof reason you must be a child Lt. Calley while serving in Vietnam shot the hell out of the village of MyLai including the women and children. It did make every TV news and newspaper in the country.
Why hasn't the military released the identity and a photograph of this scumbag? And why is the military so concerned about protecting this monster from the Afghan people? He committed a crime against the Afghan people in Afghan territory , so he should be tried and punished by them.
Afghan authority? Not no but Hell No. He is an American and will be tried by "His" peers and not Islamic idiots.
If we really want to show the Afghan people we respect their fledling democracy then we should turn him over to them for trial. Americans need to stop being hypocrytical around the world and we should start leading by example for a change.
So does that mean we get to bring every scumbag in Afghanistan here for their lethal injections so the families of those soldiers can watch. I think afghanistan is stuck the British signed the Geneva Convention in their name and they get to live up to it.
He deserves to be tried by the US military and if convicted, a military execution. He would not get a fair trial in that country due to the emotional nature of the situation.
What would your "emotional situation" be if someone walked in your house and shot and burned your kids, Taziar?
So uh can't we just hand this creep over to the Afghanis and let them have their justice. I'm sure he'd get a fair trial and all ;)
Fry this @!$%#.
should be turned over to the Afghan government to face whatever penalty they see fit
Woefully ignorant comment, Vivian.
Turning ANYBODY over to an Islamic country for justice is a gaurantee there will be no justice.
What justice should someone get for killing innocent women and children in their sleep?
Vivian that would be against the Geneva Convention of which Afghanistan is a signatory since they were part of the British empire and their colonial power signed for them.
DebbieKat, as he was not yet given due process and convicted in a court of law he deserves justice. No matter how heinous a crime someone is accused of, they are guaranteed a fair trial. It is the basis of our legal system. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Once he is found guilty, however, he doesn't deserve to live, or at least breathe free air again.
This soldier deserves the same "justice" he gave those women and little children. I wouldn't shed a tear if the Afghans got hold of him. No big loss. We don't need him. What would we demand if we were the ones occupied by a foreign army and it happened to our kids? He wrapped kids' up in blankets and burned them. What kind of mercy does this monster really deserve?
I disagree Mjordan, an eye for an eye makes the world blind. Have him court marshaled and face the consequences.
Let's hope he gets more than a slap on the wrist, as Lt. William Calley did. Last I heard, Calley was driving a Mercedes in South Florida, selling real estate.
But if he was a member of the Taliban or Al-Queda, it would have been considered just as another day at the job. This is "news" because it is SUPER rare for the US Solider to do this, this is just common for Al-Queda and the Taliban, would be just another day at the office for them
Not sure what your point is. I'd hope that US soldiers are held to a higher standard than Al-Qaida or the Taliban.
If the military is set as the same standard as Al-Qaida and Taliban, then they would be preparing a hostile takeover of America, lets not compare the two because it is obvious they are not the same in any way.
Propaganda arrives like clockwork. So a psychologist will find this guy to be insane, he'll get a slap on the wrist and then return home to beat his wife. I pay to see this guy get the chair. He has endangered all americans. He is a serial killer, ain't no hero.
No, he'll do better than that. Fox will hire him as a military analyst.
No question if the American soldier committed such a killing on a non-military target the action should be condemned. The Taliban uses children to be the mules for packing bombs in suicide bombings that kill innocent men women and children. Where are the Mullahs that should be condemning such actions rather than recruiting the children of their faith to commit such heinous crimes and telling them that it will earn them 72 virgins in heaven? Come on get real they fight and kill with brutal force every day and then condemn that acts of one crazy soldier. Indiscriminate killing is wrong. However before we condemn our military remember that this is the act of a sick individual not the United States.
What makes you think the innocent civilians were Taliban ?
Sorry Dr Brad, when you volunteer for and put on a uniform that belongs to the US Military, you ARE in fact representing the United States. Period.
Does it mean that it's ok for our soldiers to commit horrendous crimes of violence like this just because some of them do it? Of course not. So those of you saying that they are hypocrites for getting upset because innocent people were murdered are just being ridiculous! There's right and there's wrong. He did a horrible thing and knew he did or he wouldn't have turned himself in. He deserves whatever is coming to him for what he's done. Hopefully, if found guilty, he gets a just punishment.
After reading some of these comments, I can't decide who's more of a enemy to the U.S., the Taliban or the idiots living here among us! It's been said that 85% of the people in the U.S have a IQ less then 70. After reading several of the above comments I can certainly believe it! NOBODY has the right to condem this person until the facts are on the table. Combat does strange things to people. I'm not condoning killing, but you don't know what may have transpired prior to this event to cause him to do what he did. No sane person would murder 16 people. What most Americans don't hear about is the astounding suicide rate in a combat zone such as the one they are in. His actions although horiffic, do not surprise me at all. Quite frankly, I'm really surprised this didn't happen sooner. I'll stop here before I tell you what I really think about that whole middle east @!$%#hole.
"However before we condemn our military remember that this is the act of a sick individual not the United States."
And the 12 high jackers who flew crashed those planes into the WTC don't represent all Muslims but it didn't stop us from our mob mentality, did it? You fail, Doctor.
Let the Afghanis try him. We would want the same if the situation were reversed.
True, we would want that, but I still don't think it still would be fair.
As a vet of Afghanistan he needs the death penalty. War can make you do crazy things. But the cold blooded murder of people like tat and going back to your base. Knowing these actions will lead to more American deaths as these people use anything and everything to justify their own murder is blood that will be added to his hands. And I am sickened that a nut case like this who goes and kills all he can see including children will resonate in many parts of the world as how our military looks and is thought of as a generalization of how the US military acts. 99.9% are brave women and men who are serving their country and someone like this will make ignorant people think he represents how the military thinks and acts.
Death penalty deserved.
Isn't his action covered by Jihad? Or, is it only OK for Muslims to kill innocent civilians in the name of their man in the sky?
Child killer?? Like the 19 killed in Iraq because of their style of dress right? When Muslims stop killing their own children, come talk to me, until then shut it.
@ Positrondave: Let me know when Iraq = The US Military. If you've got such a big problem with all the wrongful deaths in the world that aren't carried out by American's, then I strongly urge you to drop your keyboard cowboy routine, and get out there and do something about it. Otherwise, you simply sound insane.
I don't understand why this should be a pissing match of who is more despicable in their civilian killings...both are wrong. So because some Muslims (not even all Muslims...do members of the IRA represent all Catholics?) commit acts of terror, all do? and that gives soldiers the right to kill innocent civilian children?
another thing...Iraq =/= Afghanistan...for example UK, Canada, USA, Australia are all majority white countries and also majority Christian. Does action that was committed by the Aussies reflect on the USA?
Please spare us Hugh Class+... If we followed the Geneva conventions during World War II, we would all be speaking German. If we weren't following the Geneva convention, Afghanistan would have been over years ago. We would have carpet bombed every square mile of that place, blew every mountain with bunker-buster bombs, set up a government, and moved on. That is why wars and the military are too politicized, because of people like you think all need to be moral to be moral in an unmoral situation...
WTF does the kids being killed in Iraq have anything to do with this, and how the @!$%# could it possibly justify what this soldier did? Are you people really that dumb? I find it hard to believe.
Not dumb plb, downright mean, ignorant and one small step from insanity themselves. Those who think incidents such as this should be ok because "the Muslim's do it are not right in their heads. They ARE the exact thing they claim to hate. They are no better than any terrorist out there.
@positrondave
Child killer?? Like the 19 killed in Iraq because of their style of dress right? When Muslims stop killing their own children, come talk to me, until then shut it.
Yeah so must teach these Iraqi muslims to stop killing their "emo" children by going into Afghanistan and killing defenseless Afghan children. Do you hear yourself? Stop trying to combine sharia law and its insane governments and followers to the killing of innocent defenseless children. I hope you understand not every muslim supports sharia law. You keep saying Muslim, but I hope you understand Afghanistan and Iraq are nothing alike.
Comment # 25 deleted, death trolling.
ImoenOfTelengard, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
If he is found mentally competent and it can be proven to be premeditated, then yes he deserves to die.
If not he will probably spend the rest of his life in an asylum.
Remember people we are a nation of laws not animals. Leave that to the Afghans.
Death Penalty?? If he gets a top notch lawyer he'll claim severe mental strain from to many deployments and the witnessing of and himself killing of many people caused severe mental damage and caused him to go over the edge..Sentence 4 years in a mental facility. Another kicker.. this top notch lawyer sues the U.S. Government for putting the individual in a depleted mental state causing him to commit this hideous crime.
He deserves the death penalty
He deserves the death penalty; and his commanding officer needs some punishment for not realizing or for ignoring the fact this soldier was so troubled.
Can we just bring our troops home already?!?!?!
Muslims cant be put to death for killing non Muslims, how about a little equality here?
Are you seriously trying to justify the cold-blooded murder of sleeping women and children? Who cares what the Koran says? We are not the same monsters. All religion is a farce.
That equality would not fit with the American military justice system.
Melissa
Im not trying to justify anything but the Muslims wont play by our rules then lets play by theirs. Agreed religion is a farce, but Islam is a dangerous farce.
Unfortunate, yes. Should he be punished, to a lesser degree than death, yes, but to say that there is a humane way to fight a war, a gentlmens war, then you are engaging in politics at the cost of American lives. Rules of engagement are made by those armchair warriors on Capitol Hill, not the troops who are getting shot at. To even consider a politically correct way of fighting a war is to totally ignore human nature and to put our own troops under more constraints and pressure. When was the last time our opponent in war played by the same rules as we did? War is about one thing, and one thing only, to kill the other person before they kill you. There is nothing glamorous or politically correct about war, especially when your the one being shot at. Unless you have been in combat and have served multiple tours in combat, just give this guy your support, your opinion is meaningless. And yes, I am a combat veteran, four years in Vietnam so I believe that qualifies me to give an honest opinion.
Common sense would tell anyone that this guy is mentally Ill. Our Political correct politicians will push the death penalty just to appease the Muslims. The Taliban are more murderous than this ill warrior and they do it with a sane mine that considers murder and mutilation as normal. It is a shame not only to the warriors that are serving but all Americas. War is hell and the battlefield is the devils playground.
He does not deserve anyones support. He was not killing the enemy combatants before they killed him. He snuck up on sleeping women and children and murdered them. These are not the actions of a man but of an animal who lacks any sense of decency and morals. Anyone who could possibly justify his actions in any manner is in need of some psychological help themselves. And yes, I too am retired military and a combat veteran. He does not get special treatment from me just because he is considered a brother-in-arms. He is a murderer and a war criminal. I for one, would have no problem at all with him receiving the death penalty...
And that right there is America's biggest problem. Ya'll want everyone to be like you, blonde hair, blue eyes, white skin.
njmick
"Muslims cant be put to death for killing non Muslims, how about a little equality here?"
You want equality? go do it yourself and please don't do it in uniform, stop making the U.S. and its people look bad by condoning this massacre.
Just as the NVA atrocities in Hue in 68, if he was Taliban or Al-Queda it would be normal. But since this is a US Solider, it is MAJOR news because of it rarity. Despite this one action, the single greatest group of people on average in the world is by far the US Military. Take a moment and thank a US military man coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan for Not "snapping" despite being under such great stress and pressure. They are doing a great job that we can ALL be proud of.
It should be a "rarity". It should be a "never".
With OVER million members in the Military and over 200 years of history, a "never" is virtually impossible. By far the US Military has the greatest record of any major military power in history. Thank a US Military Member for they have done an awesome job in Afghanistan.