These teachers caused the 2008 economic crisis and now this.

<sarcasm>

You get what you pay for-- The Southern states tend to pay teachers much lower salaries and weaker benefits. How can they expect to hire and retain quality teachers?

Fire those who protest! Brilliant! There are mobs of quality folks waiting to take those ungrateful teachers $25,000 salaries. Governor Gindal is a genius!

They were protesting Jindal's proposed changes to teacher evaluations, tenure and retirement plans, as well as charter school creation and regulation.

At least four public school systems – Baker, St. Martin, Vermilion and East Baton Rouge – and several Baton Rouge charter schools canceled classes.....

Ask ANY of the protesting teachers and they will say: "It is ALL about the children."

We wouldn't want those teachers to make a wage that would keep them teaching...goodness no! Children may learn to think, question, understand...not a good thing for a minimum wage drone.

Magnum Your Nazi talk is sickening. Like the Govonor is throwing teachers in a gas oven. Obviousely you didn't study much. He wants to be able to cut bad teachers. Boo Hoo. And you compare it to Gassing 20 million Jews.

Going from making political points (above and below) to blaming religion (above) in order to support teacher benefits.

Now, that is a Liberal twist.

I don't know about LA, but up here in MI, it's a 50/50 problem. Meaning, it's half the fault of the government and half the fault of the union.

I'm a liberal, I vote Democratic, but I'm also honest, and I can unequivically say that the unions are an issue and they do need to be reformed. Not busted, reformed. They remind me of snakes swallowing themselves, because they way they are functioning is sure to cause their downfall.

I've seen my young, educated, friends graduate with teaching degrees, ready to go off and shape the minds of children and inspire the next generation to greatness. They have fresh new ideas, great work ethics, rapport with their students, and pink slips because of first in, last out.

The basic function of the union is absolutely necessary. Organized labor and collective bargaining are what got us out and keep us out of the Guilded Age, but the unions have moved away from those functions. They know longer protect the worker, they protect incompetance. They protect nepotism. They protect cronyism. Standing up to the union in the name of ethics is now, just as difficult, as standing up to the manager.

The government, however, can't bust them. They are essential. What they need to do is sit down together realign their interests with those of the students, as opposed to those of the GOP or those of the incompetant. Than, we may actually get something fixed.

He accused the Jindal administration of trying to rush through legislation that harms teachers without giving sufficient time to closely examine the impact.

As quoted by the Previous House leader, Democrat Nancy Pelosi-"We have got to pass this bill to find out what is in it."

The Southern states tend to pay teachers much lower salaries and weaker benefits.

And if they paid the current teachers twice their pay the teachers would be twice as good? NOT HARDLY!

You get what you pay for -

If you are lucky.

I'll bet that the majority of the ones at the protest site are the lowest rated (and know it) and they are there trying to retain their positions. Hopefully they aren't any better at protesting than they are at educating.

This may actually be illegal. Public entities are not allowed to pay employees to protest or work in a political manner on the clock. By giving these teachers paid time to go and protest at the capital would be against these laws. Getting a day off for personal growth days would be allowed, but by hiding the protest in that would be considered illegal by most public contracts.

Jindal’s office questioned why teachers would come to the Capitol to protest a week before standardized tests are administered to decide whether some students advance or graduate.

Gee, I don't know, Bobby - perhaps because you're trying to fast-track legislation that will give these people the shaft? What a passive-aggressive d-bag.

The author of this article should have stayed in school a little longer.

Teacher protest closes schools in Louisiana

NO! The school administartion cancelled classes because of the teachers planned absences. The protest did not close the schools.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither.

Dave,

I remember when WIC got us into debt, too.

The same thing happened to the teachers in my state. Thanks, Governor Rick Scott!

ThinkingScientist,

There are mobs of quality folks waiting to take those ungrateful teachers $25,000 salaries. Governor Gindal is a genius!

Didn't do well in math? Your 25k is less than half of the actual starting salary.

Looking at starting salaries (0 years with a BS) in Louisiana for the 2010-2011 school year (from the state website), the average starting salary (no benefits) was over $40k/9 months. Annualized, this is $53,000. Doesn't seem like a bad starting salary to me, especially if you add insurance and pension benefits on top.

The bullet points of the bill seem reasonable in a reasonable America .... oh, I realized the problem as I was typing this .. never mind, carry on dumb-ass teachers who can't hold down a job on your own merits in a world where real performance is expected and necessary and vital to our futures. Must be nice to hold a decent paying job with good pay potential that has no performance requirements and employment remains guaranteed.

Tex, as I read those bullet points, I wondered why the teachers were opposing them. They all seemed focused on improving the outcome of the education process for Louisiana students.

Your analysis that the objection could be that teachers will be judged on how well their students perform sounds logical to me. Otherwise, I saw nothing in the points about cutting pay or benefits for the teachers.

The problem is if you accept that the performance aspect is the source of the teacher discord, how do we know that if a student performs poorly it is a direct result of poor instruction on his/her teacher's part?

STEXAN-You sound just like Rick Perry.

My sister is a low-paid teacher in a low-income district in Louisiana. I support her 100% in protesting these bills. What they do not tell you is that many of these teachers will be rated based upon their student's scores--alone. Accordingly, those teachers not teaching in testing years will have a much easier time convincing an evaluator of their competence and/or passion for the job. This bright line rule also punishes those teachers who enjoy and do the best they can with the students (and, more importantly, parents) that are in their district.

Unfortunately, my sister spends money that she doesn't have, as she is a single mom, and goes out of her way to pick up and take her students to various activities. She was the first teacher in the state to incorporate robotics in her 5th grade curriculum 2 years ago. She is very passionate and competent. In fact, when she took a sabbatical several years ago for the birth of her daughter, her student scores dropped. Of course, the very next year the student scores went back up. This legislation will consider none of these facts.

My sister's students consist of juvenile delinquents and many are several years older than they should be (she has had one student in the past who was 13-14 years old but a 5th grader).

This legislation will punish anyone willing to take a job in a low-income district, which means that their career will be ruined forever. I continue to support the teachers until some legislation can be passed that takes other things into consideration.

It's all about unions losing power. It's not the kids they care about, it's the union's power. Take the union out of classrooms and everything gets better.

My wife if a teacher. My sister-in-law is a teacher. They both say that the union prevents schools from functioning as they should.

With the grade levels Louisiana students are getting, i wonder if the teachers are worth what they make. Some years back i moved to Louisiana for about 5 years and put three kids in Jr. High School. Their English teacher could not even speak a coherent sentence during a parent teacher orientation. And No, she was not Cajun or foreign born.

As usual "truth" lies somewhere between right and wrong. True, career politicians, the Military Industrial Complex and organised religion, would prefer to keep the masses uneducated they would much rather you stay at home play your computer games, watch Oprah, Dancing with the Stars and American Idol and leave ruining you life to them. The unions on the other hand with their one size fits all attitude are part of the problem as well ..... somebody has to be in charge, if someone is not providing the quality of teaching that is expected then, like in the real world, that person having reached their level of incompetence needs to be moved along.

So the watering down and dumbing down of Public Education in the US and Aust. is a result of the combined forces of both Government and Unions......what to do? Schools need to concentrate on teaching Reading, Writing, Rithmatic, History, Social Studies, Geography, Science, and while other subjects like art, music, physical education and political correctness are somewhat important they have overtaken the more real important subjects which one needs to have a grasp of to effectively navigate the canals of life.

Teachers should be well paid and respected ...... if they are up to the task, if not they should find something more suitable to their ability level.....like maybe a career in politics.

I've been trying to figure out why anyone thinks teachers are "entitled" to have tenure. The fact is that the only ones who need it are those who would be fired without it. Can someone flip burgers for a living expect that after 5-6 years that they should be entitled to "tenure?" If so, then they are free to flip them and keep dropping them on the floor and just pick them up and put them between the buns. That's the argument that supporters of tenure make. Put in a few years then the lay back and enjoy the benefits. Sorry, the rest of us don't live with those rules and there's absolutely no reason a teacher or anyone else is entitled to it.

Being from Louisiana, and familiar with the area most impacted by these teachers, I'm of a mixed opinion.....

Most people don't realize that the areas that are closed are probably one of the top 3 worst areas in the state- behind New Orleans and MAYYYBEEE Shreveport... The students they are teaching aren't students that can make good grades in the subjects they are teaching.

As bad as it sounds, not everyone is capable of being a rocket scientist. Some people are just plain ignorant and aren't capable of learning- whether due to environment, family, quality of life, etc. The Baton Rouge area is one of the areas where the majority of the population is good to be doing manual labor, with the occasional gem coming out of the bunch.

Unfortunately, due to No Child Left Behind and such, most of the Baton Rouge district (and I'm sure numerous others) simply prepare students for the stadardized tests, and then pass them to get them out of their class. That isn't the right answer- but then again neither is expecting every individual to be capable of the same learning capacity as others.

These teachers are the ones that will be fired because their students aren't capable of learning.

On the other hand- when I said 'that's not the right answer' earlier, I meant it- even if you've got a failed mission, you still try to do what you can, not just 'pass the class'. This is where my mixed opinion comes in- when do you stop bailing and abandon ship?

This has NOTHING to do with "supporting and fixing" the teaching problems in our classrooms, but with the following:

They (the teachers) were protesting Jindal's proposed changes to teacher evaluations, tenure and retirement plans, as well as charter school creation and regulation.

Comprehensive reading skills is necessary to fulfill your life's ambitions.

And if they paid the current teachers twice their pay the teachers would be twice as good? NOT HARDLY!

You get what you pay for -

If you are lucky.

While you may not get what you pay for; you most certainly are not going to get what you do not pay for

And you don't know how to use proper grammar. By the way, a republic is a type of democracy where people CHOOSE their representatives, so what was your point?

Often, in a political argument the phrase, "We live in a democracy!" is used. For those people living in the United States of America this is a grave misconception.

In a democracy the country is ruled by the majority. For the sake of example we can say that the senate, and the house of representatives are a democracy, in that it takes a two thirds majority vote to pass any bill.

However, in a republic the people use the democratic voting process to vote in a person to represent them, either their state, or their district, or whatever. This representative can vote any way he or she wants to, he is not bound to do what the majority of his constituents want him to. During an election, the people are not voting for the president. They are, instead, voting for the representative that will ultimately vote for the president. This is why a candidate can win an election by the popular vote and still not win the election.

The benefit of the republic model of government is simple. Majority rules can get ugly. Large groups of people can be deceived, and fall into mass hysteria based on emotions. In a republic small groups of people can not be discriminated against because they fall into disfavor with a larger, more powerful group.

In a democracy the majority can vote against a minority and win, in a republic it cannot. Consider what could have happened during the 1960s if the United States had been a true democracy. With majority rule, the white majority could have voted slavery back into popular use, had they wanted to, and some of them did. With majority rule, women would not have gotten the vote.,

Laws in a republic are held in place by reason, and thought. They are not arbitrarily produced by the whim of a majority of people. In a democracy the weak are at the mercy of the strong, it is a governmental system of bullying.

Knowing the difference between a democracy and a republic will help society to understand the political system better, and make decisions based on that knowledge rather than on emotionalism.

Leatherneck is just repeating the talking points he hears on rightwing radio & TV. You don't think he actually UNDERSTANDS what he's hearing, do you?

Laura, even you cannot be that ignorant.

Have you ever heard the line, "...and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands..."? Think, really hard....

Thinker67: If Laura was smart she could just goggle it, but since we all know LIBS are incapable of even doing the littlest research on it, its a lost cause.

I hope you meant to type "Google." Or maybe you're just a product of the ideal CONSERVATIVE education system.

Laura123456.....

Cannot use justification for counter comments, blame someone else then kill the messenger.....Liberal agenda.

Ahh...let the insults begin. The place where a typo marks you as sub-human but a clear understanding of the political structure is completely irrelevant. You realize that personal attacks begin when the war of ideas is lost, don't you?

Leatherneck has the constitution, the pledge of allegiance and the entire political structure of the most powerful country in the world behind him with regard to the definitions of Republic and Democracy.

What have you got? "Oh look! He can't spell! He can't spell!" Yeah, try that in a court of law and see how far that gets you.

<smacks forehead> This is an MSNBC column isn't it? Should have checked that. Going back to another fight that actually matters. (The 3 highest performing charter schools in Georgia are being shut down by an overreaching--possibly racist--school board. Googgggggle Fulton county and charter school licenses. )... Have a nice day!

Macdeezy, you are definitely wrong and would have missed that question on a 5th grade social studies test.

You must be from Louisiana.

Macdeezy - Your dyslexia has flared up. This is a democratic republic, not a republican democracy.

Got to love the grammer and spell checkers on the vine. It makes them seem smart and powerfull that they can point out grammer and spelling mistakes. but thats all the meat in their argument that they will ever have. It's like posting is subjugated to essay writing. But I guess, I can't argue with retarded people, I will always lose.

That the U.S. system of government is a federalist republic is not a partisan, or debatable issue - it is fact. Does this really warrant the barrage of insults and personal attacks in this thread? Silliness.

JimD: You're seriously lumping those who own guns and others who home-school their children in with paranoids and radicals? I can't wait until we evolve enough that your kind has been phased out.

A Republic is a form of Democracy, and all of you are @!$%#ing morons.

"the teacher don't even know"

wow!

punisher-- it is grammar, not grammer

you are welcome

or live in and raise their kids in neighborhoods that are drug and crime infested.

You'd be surprised how many talented, exceptional, experienced, hard working and extremely valuable employees are working for low pay and bad benefits right now. With pride. Probably mainly due to the fact that they're working and earning their keep, rather than trying to pretend that they're more special than everyone else by protesting and demanding something for nothing instead of working. If employers aren't treating us the way we want to be treated, it's not like they're holding guns to our heads, we can leave through the same door we came in. If these teachers are so much more special than everyone else who's getting trampled on right now, that should not be a problem for them. Unions should be considered terrorist groups and treated as such. I'd rather hire teachers who are aware that children's education is a touch more important than their own blown out data plans and frappuccinos.

Enma3,

So you think $53k/year in Louisiana as a starting salary is low pay? It doesn't include benefits.

Logically speaking, shouldn't the school boards or administrators to be allowed to weed out the bad teachers with out always fighting the Union thugs. One would think the good teachers (the teachers that are there for the students) would help come up with ideas to help assure our children are being taught by the best. Oh sorry, you are not allowed to speak for yourselves, first you have to get it all okayed with your Union rulers

The starting pay is $40k, and there are no benefits for those starting out. The phony pulled-outta-someone's-butt $53k is a calculation based on a 9-month school year. Get it? Nobody's accounted for the amount the teachers pay out of pocket for classroom supplies, or their personal costs accrued during extracurricular activities and/or field trips, or the fact that they frequently work 6 or even 7 days a week when school is in session, which means they work a whole year in only 10 months. Teachers work 2 weeks after school is "out" and are back at work 2 weeks before the new school year starts. Lesson plans and quizzes need to be made up and copied, tests graded, grades averaged, homework checked, and lots more. Also, today they may be risking their lives like police officers with all the school shooting.

If you've never been a teacher, you haven't got a dog in this fight. So go do your insane right wing trolling elsewhere - you all clearly don't know a thing about teaching.

Jim,

I come from a family of teachers.

Extracurricular activities are paid per union rules, often at a rate higher than teaching rates. This includes field trips, coaching, etc.

Regarding 6 or 7 days a week, that is also not true, except maybe the first year of teaching where a plan is being developed. Lesson plans, quizzes, tests, etc. are covered during teachers free periods since they work about half of the day in the classroom (for high school).

armurray -

I was a teacher for many years. I don't know where you taught, but it sounds like you had it good. Those experiences were mine, and they were in common with others.

How on Earth did you only work a half day in the classroom? Wow - that would have been nice. It also would have been nice if there were less than 30 kids in some of my classes. And I was never reimbursed at some higher union rate for math club activities.

So why do you still insist on converting the actual pay to some arbitrarily raised figure based on a bogus and misleading statement of months actually worked?

Hmmm...

Then fire the teachers and hire educators!

I believe that is what the Governor is trying to do. He wants teachers to be held accountable for the quality of education, and open up alternate avenues for education. Should a bad teacher get tenure and an excellent retirement plan?

I am all for having teacher's incentives reflect on their performance. Good teachers should get rewarded, bad teachers should be let go.

Magnum. Your opinion sucks. Quit with the Nazi BS. Can't you make a point with arguments instead of insults. Pathetic and disgusting. I'm embarrassed that you are an American.

hey ssmike, how much are you going to pay those "educators" after you fire the teachers? Where are you going to find those "educators?" What will be the qualifications required of those "educators?"

I know what qualifications republicans want for educators: a secondary one is that they think the earth is 6000 years old; the primary one is that they work for a corporation that donates to republicans.

I have religious beliefs that forbid my tax money from going to educators or their bosses who have those qualifications. Will my freedom of religion be respected here? Or are my god given rights going to be squashed under the boot of the right wing neo-fascists?

No, no, no, if you educate the masses they will revolt. Keep them edumacated just enough to vote, but ignorant enough to control. It's the political way.

In the industrial world I can control the quality of my raw materials and products that I buy from my suppliers. If those products do not meet my quality standards they get rejected. Either the supplier improves its quality or I find a new supplier.

What teacher has that ability? If I was a teacher I would certainly love to be able to eliminate the kids who don't want to be there, who are disruptive, who are disrespectful, who are one, if not more grade levels behind in their skills. Throw onto the pile the kids whose only decent meal of the day come from the school cafeteria, those who are poorly clothed, who are abused at home, who have one or more parents in jail, live in violence plagued neighborhoods, etc. and we expect a person to actually educate them?

Too bad we couldn't get some of those billions of tax dollars being given freely to those who self-proclaimed US haters; Pakistan, Egypt, Afghanistan, & the list goes one to divert the funds to our educational system & even trade school for those students who aren't college bound.

Why would they be afraid for their jobs if they're good teachers to start out with.

Seriously? The "if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't have a problem with this" type of argument? What about the "it's wrong so it needs to be changed, regardless of whether or not I'm immediately impacted" argument?

And it's not the teacher's fault the government decided to do it right now. I always love how people get mad at teachers for "deserting" to do things like go to the dentist, doctor, bank, protest, whatever, and yet when are they supposed to do these things? "Uh, pardon me, Mr. Governor--could you hold off on this bill until the weekend? 'Cause it's just not convenient right now."

There's nothing wrong with increasing the standards for the teachers in an effort to improve student performance. What's so "wrong" about it? Have you read the legislation yet?

You're saying its wrong simply because a person that probably stands to lose a lot of power when the legislation is passed says so? A person that doesn't know, OF ALL PEOPLE, what kind of government we have in this country? Let's try this again.... A soldier leaving his post....

Dang, I keep forgetting this is an MSNBC article...sorry...leaving now.

No, thinker, it is not like a soldier leaving his post on the eve of battle. You fail the basic analogy test. You need to re-tool what ever it is that does your "thinking."

So what is wrong with the teachers sending emails, making phone calls, etc. to "have their voices heard" instead of being there in person? I know, I know, it won't have the public impact as forcing the administration's hand.

Some people are saying that there isn't necessarily a need for change. However they ignore the fact that what has been happening for the last couple of decades hasn't proved effective. So odds are that the changes probably won't be any less effective. Incentives, bonuses, raises, etc. usually affect an employee's performance. Since the governor is responsible for the performance of of all school districts, including the failing ones, then the governor usually has some options that the school unions don't like.

One question in all of this, what constitutes a good teacher, I remember a high school teacher, that all the students hated, because it was hard to pass his class. A lot of the students tried to get this teacher fired, even made up stories and lied. But guess what, once I got past the stern descipline stance he took, he was one hell of a teacher. Taught more than just science, he taught life skills and good moral principles. But most students just saw him as an arse.

JimD, actually, it's his analogy....me thinks you need to retool the attitude that makes you somehow feel superior.

Incentives, bonuses, raises, etc. usually affect an employee's performance.

True. Now, how will those affect the attitudes of the student and the parents? Because, contrary to what most people think, those two things have way more to do with a student's success than the teacher ever does.

Thinker wrote: Teachers going on strike weeks before a standardized test? Isn't that like a soldier deserting their post on the eve of battle?

You don't suppose that's why Jindal scheduled this debate for that particular week, do you? Nah. . . . Couldn't be.

Actually, studies show that PROPER incentives can improve performance. Beyond a certain point, most incentive programs actually impede performance for non-rudimentary tasks. Sure, you could pay based on the number of papers graded or the number of passing grades in a class, but sometimes incentives lead to more efficient methods of exploiting the incentive system... imagine that.

What does it take to be educated? Intellect or functional brain; interested, participating, behaved student; interested, participating, caring, disciplining PARENTS; interesting, competent, caring, knowledgeable teachers; administrators and governments that provide ADEQUATE facilities and funding; methodologies that provide facts, encourage learning and thinking. A good and functioning education system must have all parties participating to achieve the desired end of having our children educated with no less that the basics and hopefully the desire and learning to achieve even higher amounts of learning, i.e., become our engineers, scientists, doctors, teachers, and all the rest. A good sound education is needed and just as important for those choosing to mechanics, plumbers, machinists, and all the other trades.

When one these elements is left out, the system fails. If all do not actively participate, the system fails.

As in all things there are those those are in the wrong field of endeavor - ineffective teacher and administrators; incompetent legislators; parents who are parental; unions protecting incompetents and not the profession; and add your choice.

Having an educated society seems to be an after thought at best rather than a primary goal. Often it appears the desire is to insure the level of ignorance is increased or at least maintained. Politicians and various "isms" have no desire to have a thinking, educated population.

Imagine if we spent 2 billion a YEAR on education here in America! man things would be much better.

They have increased money to Education for awhile now and its only gotten worse. So giving them more and more money is not the answer as the FACTS SHOW:

Many people believe that lack of funding is a problem in public education, but historical trends show that American spending on public education is at an all-time high. Between 1994 and 2004, average per-pupil expenditures in American public schools have increased by 23.5 percent (adjusted for inflation). Between 1984 and 2004, real expenditures per pupil increased by 49 percent. These increases follow the historical trend of ever-increasing real per-student expenditures in the nation's public schools. In fact, the per-pupil expenditures in 1970-1971 ($4,060) were less than half of per-pupil expenditures in 2005-2006 ($9,266) after adjusting for inflation.

Despite the lack of consistent findings, leading researchers in the area acknowledge that any effect of per-pupil expenditures on academic outcomes depends on how the money is spent, not on how much money is spent. According to Hanushek:

Few people…would recommend just dumping extra resources into existing schools. America has…followed that program for several decades, with no sign that student performance has improved.…

…The issue is getting productive uses from current and added spending. The existing evidence simply indicates that the typical school system today does not use resources well (at least if promoting student achievement is their purpose).

Hedges and Greenwald note that:

The results do not provide detailed information on the educationally or economically efficient means to allocate existing and new dollars.… Discussions of school reform… should instead incorporate an assessment of the current relation between inputs and outcomes and determine how to best allocate resources in specific contexts.

So the obvious solution is to fire all the teachers and hire cheaper ones, correct?

Think how inexpensive education would be if we just eliminated all the schools and required parents to home-school their own children.

Great post Michael.

I'm not sure how they arrived at the adjusted figures for per student expenditures. Every calculator I could find could not come up with the same amounts. If I take the 1971 amount ($4060) and convert to 2006 dollars, it is $20,209. If I take the 2006 amount ($9226) and convert to 1971 dollars, it is $1853. Of course none of this takes into account the budget cutting due to the recession. Here sudent expenditures have been cut back to 1995 unadjusted levels. But we are another southern state bound and determined to bring back a plantation economy, but we are enlightened. We don't care what race you are, we want all to be poor and beholden to the masters.

Don't we already have a standard, wasn't the no child left behind suppose to be the standard? Major fail.

From several articles I have read over the past three decades, there has been no statistical significance to the amount spent per student to the student performance. The biggest impact to student performance is parental involvement. The second biggest has been teacher-student interaction (student actually wants to learn - not just required to be present).

I have to agree with Punisher on this one. Parents bear a large part of the blame for kids not learning, and then some. They don't study with the kid, but when s/he fails they blame the school.

Read an editorial in the New York Times not long ago, written by a teacher, looked to be in his mid thirties. Seems that in New York, young teachers only last an average of four years on the job, and the reason is not the lousy pay or out-of-control students, but the bratty parents who bedevil the teachers by "advocating" for their kids.

Eevie:

National statistics indicate that 1/2 of teachers leave the profession within 5 years. It is not just a New York happening

Sad, isn't it? And an ugly comment on this society.

That's right. The liberals have learned to buy votes through promises of more social welfare programs. Why get educated and earn a living when you can sit on your ass and recieve an existence for free.

Thinker, did you perhaps miss the big story last week, that the Blue states contribute to the public coffers whereas the Red states get the subsidies? Seems the liberals are the ones with the paying jobs while the good ol' boys collect the government checks.

NO more bailing out the red stupid states. time for the blue states to secede and keep our tax monies in our blue states.

bornagaindem:

AMEN!!!

born - That has already been tried. It didn't meet with great success.

you are correct. can make a great living catching mudbugs, catchin' gators, swamp logging, etc

Rick, why shouldn't parents have a choice of sending their children to the school of their choice and having their tax dollars support that school?

The only boogeyman I see here is the one who scared the intelligence out of you.

In any civilized country, education falls under the auspices of the central government. That way they maintain a consistent WORLD standard, and if a student doesn't meet it s/he must re-do until s/he passes. None of that "we don't teach certain subjects because they are inconsistent with our beliefs." Of course, in this country the education system has been undercut by various factions -- no, NOT all of them conservative -- to the point where the graduates of all too may schools frequently do not even know what the world standard is, let alone achieve it. How can you hope to compete on the world marked if your education level is sub par to what the rest of the world considers standard? And you wonder why this country is going to hell in a hand-basket.

Because the changes that Jindal is making is designed to destroy Education, not help it. Notice how the changes attempt to funnel children toward Fundamentalist Charter Schools.

And thats my opinion.

Really Magnum, since you are so well informed, why not post a copy of the bill here for us all to read. Surly you have a copy since you seem to know every detail about it.

Magnum, since charter schools are public schools funded through the school district, they are not allowed to be religious at all. They just have more options for curriculum and how they are run. My son attends a charter high school and is getting a better education than he did at a regular public high school. Not saying that the public high school is bad, but some kids need a different environment. Charters usually have smaller class sizes and more one on one with teachers.

Nice--4 grammatical mistakes in 4 sentences.

The report on charter schools seems to be that most are failing kids at an even more alarming rate than public schools do. At least that seems to be what's happening on the East Coast.

Eevie, there can be various reasons for charters failing. Some are just not good schools, but alot of them are started in areas where kids are already failing. When you start with kids who are way behind to begin with, it takes time to get them up to speed, but the kids and their parents have to be willing to do the work. There are many charters where I live. Many are top rated schools, some mediocre. They are periodically evaluated and can have their charter revoked for poor performance. They can be a very good alternative for kids who don't do well in mainstream schools.

ooomy: That's the problem. Industries profits have been record breaking. Industries have not sacrificed. Their employees that have been fired and the jobs that have been shifted overseas have not hurt Industries at all.

What the Governor is suggesting, along with teacher evaluations, is the cutting of salaries, pensions and benefits. I don't think the teachers are really protesting the evaluation process, as much as they are being attacked for making a living wage. This is part of the Republican agenda, which is why you are seeing every Republican Governor across the country trying to implement this same strategy. It is an attack on public education.

part of the Republican agenda

To have uneducated masses? Aren't there enough uneducated people living off the government's teat already? It it morphs into a complete "Republican agenda", who is earning the money and thus paying taxes to support the ignorant masses? Where are the democrats going to find even more money trees?

College-educated, more liberal minded people living in Blue states are earning money and paying their taxes. The middle class, that is. Those who are less educated and living in the Red states are collecting the government subsidies. Look it up, the story was all over the papers in the last two or three weeks.

Hmm. Better educated people with liberal leanings making more money and paying more taxes than conservatives with less education? How elitist! We need to get rid of schools! They're damaging our prospects for a Conservative government that will happily drag this country back into the 19th century!

At the same time Teachers pay, compensation and benefits paid for by the taxpayers have been expanding handsomely

I'm not sure where you'r referring to. But here in SC, our pay has been frozen and our benefits have been shrinking for years now. Take our cuts like professionals? Which government department gets hit first whenever a cut comes along? That's right. And guess who takes it in the rear.

Grizzly - Exactly. And why are most government employees allowed to retire after 20 years? They should make the age 65 like everyone else. It will save us money..it's just that simple.

Oh--and there is no such thing as tenure here, most of us don't even get a lunch time to ourselves, many have been fired or laid off due to budget constraints, our pay is well below the national average, everything I do is constantly criticized and under the microscope by my boss, her boss, students, and parents, all who think they know how to do things better than I do, and most of society thinks we are nothing more than trained lapdogs. So where, exactly, should I step up and "feel the pain?"

Teachers need to cooperate or get the h_ll out of the way.

To be replaced with ....what, exactly>

where, exactly, should I step up and "feel the pain?

You are there already, no need to go anywhere.

Don't know about the teachers you've talked to, but when I was teaching I used the "3 months off" taking the classes required to retain my teaching certification. Paid for by myself.

And each semester I'd put $200-$300 of my own money into teaching and classroom supplies.

Severed - Welcome to the club. Many of us "professionals" are required to take "currency" courses. But the difference between us and teachers is that we don't get three months off to pursue those courses. We get to take them in the evenings and on vacations. And paid for out of our pockets.

And like you many other employees also "voluntarily" purchase materials for our jobs. I use the word "voluntarily" because it isn't required but it is too much hassle to get funds or reimbursment from the organzation.

ooomy that's not funny.

"3 months off." Teachers here are in school until mid-June and their contract year starts in mid-August. Not 3 months unless you are into really new math

Exactly Mary

The Fundamentalist Church has for decades now, had a goal to shut down every single Public School 'cause they teach evolution, which they consider a sin. Its time for people to recall Fuhrer Jindal, Fuhrer Haslam of Tennessee and all the other Teabag governors in the USA

And thats my opinion.

I think Republican-leaning people would be more inclined to listen if those on the left stopped spouting off every fear-mongering talking point they can think of and listened themselves for once.

Gee Mary, maybe you liberal leaning people should realize that education is a State's responsibility. The Dept. of Education is part of the Federal Government. It should be abolished.

Now, would you care to provide any proof at all that the Republicans wish to end public education?

Maybe its time to shut down the dept. of education and start over. I see a lot of big city's dept. education failed misserably.

Jindal may not be able to help Education much, but he can sure harm Education a lot.

Interesting that the teachers are unwilling to give up any of their many benefits. This is also true in the state I am from, where the mediocrity of public education is staggering. At cost to myself, both in terms of money, career advancement, I homeschooled our children through grade 8, to ensure that they were learning basic math, science, English, grammar, writing skills, etc. After sitting through the feel good social skills crap they deliver in elementary school, using up valuable class time in such activities watching the elementary school news on the classroom tv, watching sports movies during gym (as if an improved school lunch can counteract activity)...I took them home to educate them. I did try to work through the school channels, but they were simply closed to discussion. It's as if they don't realize that the taxpayer is their paycheck. Why continue to pay so much to a system that is unresponsive to parental concerns?

gba, thats because too many stupid parents put too much demand on the teachers. Teachers are not substitute care givers of children, they are educators. Every time I go to my kids parent/teacher conference I always see and hear parents go off to as why their kids are failing, but never offer any solutions to the problem. If my kids were failing I spend extra time with them on their school work and help them study. Unlike you, who took the matter into their own hands, most of us can't do that, but some of us knows that we as parents need to be more invovled and know better than think the schools are a free day care.

Exactly, Punisher:

And, when kids hear their parents belittling teachers day after day, they take that sorry attitude to school with them.

I doubt many "better" teachers would move to La to make less money!

Steveo, how exactly would a laid-off teacher make less money by taking a job??

Steve - that comment made you seem about as sharp as a bowling ball. Besides the comment about not wanting to take less than none the comment about better teachers proves the point of the argument for being able to get rid of teachers that don't make the grade.

wow

What kind of business would you have if you couldn't fire your very worst employees?

Education!

Steveo...if you missed it.....you would fire the employees you were not getting the results from....not throw more money at them and hope they improve!

steveo, I was once on a contract with the federal gov. what I learned was that federal employees after being there the un-written length of 3 years, you could not be fired for any thing except 3 things, drugs, guns, and crime. The worst employees did the most minimum that they had to do so as to not be written up. I saw middle managers in tears, because they couldn't handle an employee cursing and mouthing back at them knowing the would not be fired for it. That is the reason, why the school system is broken, it works in much the same business model as the federal gov.

Another republican governor trying to take from the public schools to give to the private sector. I support teachers and i don't support liars. I think it time for jindal to find a new job and all teachers hopefully will help to send him and all republicans to the unemployment line. Now you know why Louisiana is so sorry with all the republicans you figure it out.

You must really hate black people.

I know a white man who was molested by his maternal and paternal grandparents, and there family is a white family from southern Louisiana - incest isn't a race related issue. I also have a lot of friends in Louisiana that are very well - educated, so I think "How's" comments are a bit stereotypical.

Well, add 2 days to the school year.

If he ever had anything intelligent to say, I wish he would do it instead of acting like a complete tool.