Smith, teaching children how to respond to sex is a good idea..

Utah Gov. Gary Herbert on Friday vetoed a controversial bill banning public schools from teaching contraception as a way of preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

Good! That bill was just going to translate in hundreds of unwanted pregnancies by teens. At least there is some hope after all that some of the GOP Governors still have some common sense.

Encouraging children to have sex is never a good idea.

Children don't need "encourgment" It is a human function, just like breathing oxygen. And it starts at puberty, when children are the most vulnerable to PREDATORS and UNPROTECTED sex.

Take the blinders off!

Teaching children about homosexual sex, all in the name of "equality" is a TERRIBLE idea. All you straight gay "rights" supporters have just opened the door for homosexuals to now DEMAND that homosexual intercourse be taught in schools if homosexuals are truly to be considered "equal."

You obvioulsy have no idea that most teachers need to have a "lesson plan"in accordance with State Regulations. A teacher has to be VERY cautious in how he/she presents the information to studenrs. Also, the parents receive a letter, where they are ENCOURAGED to read the materials BEFORE the classes start.

Relax...It's only sex.

I, however, unlike irespond, who appearently responding to their own abilitys, believes that its best handled in the school by someone of unknown character, believe it's better taught in the home by someone of known character!

tedcrawford - That's the problem. Most parents who are against teaching sex ed in school are also against teaching it at home. They are so ignorant as to believe that if nothing is mentioned, the kids will never know sex exists until their wedding night. WRONG! (BTW, that little icon with "ABC" written above a check mark is spell-check. Try using it before posting.)

It's truly astounding that people in this day and age believe like jmsmith, Timothy1Mil, and tedcrawford. Nothing is going to go away by sticking your head in the sand.

So TED what is the solution if it shouldnt be taught in school by "unknown characters" and they shouldn't be taught at home by some "unknown character" Whats the plan just let child go out and try everything and hope that they come to some reasonable conclusion? It wasn't that long ago that I was in school and some basic information which is what they teach is not going to make all the children whores

My two teen age daughters had sex education in the public K12 school system, then came home and it was discussed in the home about responsibility for ones body and acts. This was something my public school did not teach when I was a kid back. I learned via stories from other boys, and a book on sexual education that my parents had bought and just put on a book shelf for us to discover on our own. I could have easily have had sex with a girl as a sophomore in high school with no protection, become a parent and ruined my chance for a college education. My kids have received a much better experience having sex education taught by someone who has a game plan in lieu of someone who is clueless on how to present the material and they are much better because of it!

If you leave sex ed to the parents then only 10% of kids will be taught what they need to know.There's allot more to sex ed than how to do it.How many girls in the 1950s do you think got raped by their boyfriends and didn't tell anyone or even knew that they could.And the boy didn't even know he'd done anything wrong.If you leave sex ed to the parent you end up with most kids learning about it from their friends who don't know what their talking about.If you don't trust the schools to teach sex ed how can you trust the parents of the boy who's taking your daughter to the prom to teach him that no means no.....MOST PARENTS ARE STUPID!

@tomithy1mil if talking about gay sex makes you gay or being around gay people makes you gay then i got news for you you were already gay ive talked about gay sex iver hung around gay people all my life and i still date women so its not like the gay has rubbed off on me maybe too me but not off

How do social conservatives manage to miss the point that under the current law, parents can OPT OUT of having their children take this class? Instead of exercising their own freedom, they seek to deny others' their freedom. How is that American?

HN- they don't miss the point of "opting out"; they want to have no options available because they are the final arbiters of what is correct and proper. I am so not liking these right wingers.

Note JustOlJoe's comment above. When there is no one available for "the talk" or true education, it is a hit or miss process in finding out how to become pregnant. Luckily, I skipped a couple of years of school, or I would have been a preggers sophomore myself; instead I messed up my college years, getting pregnant at 17. There should be sex ed. There is no other way to protect kids.

Every sperm is sacred so keep the Viagra cumming but birth control is a sin against God and women are the property of men. They are not to enjoy sex. Their only purpose is to reproduce the man's seed. Gayle Ruzicka, remember this. You are to be seen but not heard, you can only see God though your father or husband. We want leaders whose only care is money, we want them to reinvest their public service salaries into insider trading of outsourcing companies. We average Joe Utahnian Americans love coat hanger abortions. God is the father and all good up righteous Utah citizens want to be like Lot and have sex with their daughters themselves and that will teach them sex education. We want 80 year old men with 20 wives to teach our Children about sex after he marries them. We are the sheeple of Amerika and we have spoken.

When I was a kid we didn't have sex education. I had to learn on my own, alone, out in the forest. I turned out ok...........................although I still can't reach into a tree knothole without first checking for squirrels......

You go Man!!

Don't know much about this governor, but it's nice to see politicians out there who will stand up for principle and who are not afraid to go against popular will when trying to do the right thing. There's a word for it...and it's called leadership.

In my household (mixed marriage, Southern Baptist dad and Roman Catholic mom) sex was never talked about...at all. It was as if it did not exist. I had to learn about sex from school, friends and experimentation. This is what a lot of children would face if it was left just to parents to teach their kids.

So many people against sex education in school tend to have tunnel vision. What so many forget is that the FOCUS is not on teaching how to have sex properly. While birth control and STD prevention is mentioned and discussed, it's a relatively small part of the overall curriculum in the class. The main focus of the sex section is on human anatomy in both males and females, what sex IS (which all youth going through hormonal changes and sexual urges need to know) and what STDs are. There is a lot of time spent and major focus on the danger of STDs and the responsibility of teenage pregnancy, which does actually DISCOURAGE sex. The talk about STD prevention and birth control measures are not meant to encourage any kind of sexual behavior by any means, it is simply there to keep the safety factor in place and there is not any overwhelming amount of time spent on it. Many children at that age do not want to listen to anything their parents have to say, especially about a topic like that which makes them uncomfortable, and they will take it much better from a sterile school environment and an instructor that takes the personal feel out of it.

I always must laugh on those petty issues in America. They see many a warmovie about hate and destruction, but help them their god when they see a nice nipple. Killing of thousands and thousand of people in TV-Movie and reality is less dangerous to the childs mind, they think.

O, I apologize if any Murrrcan feels offended by the mere mentioning of a nipple even though it was a nice one.

Tim, take a deep breath. They are NOT going to teach kids how to have gay sex... get a life and stop being so theatrical. My parents did what I thought was a decent job of explaining, but I was so shy, they knew it bothered me, so they never had the talk with me. Just gave me a book. My 55 year old brother WAS taught about sex, but actually thought since he had sex one time with a girl and she didn't get pregnant, then he was sterile. He told me this with a str8 face. Continued to have unprotected sex. He is lucky he didn't have a bunch of babies. What I'm saying is this law would ONLY have caused a huge increase in unwanted births. They would either be aborted or given up or ruin the lives of these young kids. This rep did the right thing and that is unusual when it comes to republicans and meddling with our private lives. THey are kings of saying keep govt out of our lives, but they LOVE to legislate morality and intrude in our bedrooms.

as a resident of utah, i am thrilled to hear that!

my current girlfriend is from vernal, in uintah county. she says that county has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the state. schools in that county teach abstinence only sex education in schools.

thank you mr. herbert. given that a democrat candidate for governor is not very likely to win in utah, i may just symbolically vote for you next time around.

yo darth - bragging, eh - it takes a "big one" to fill a knothole big enough to get your hand inside

At the end of World War Two the majority of Americans lived in rural areas or in small towns. Nearly 1 in 3 Americans lived on or near a farm. Honestly, these self righteous prudes who dominate the Republican Party and sentimentalize a past free of sex are yearning for an imaginary world that frankly never existed to begin with! For most American kids (circa 1945) and by way of 4H, animal husbandry, doing tours to just looking out the window... knew all to well what constituted procreation. From the myth of "Stranger Danger" (nearly all sexual assaults on children are committed by a relative or a close friend of the family) to a systemic fear on the part of the Right that other people might be having fun... this is one emotionaly constipated crowd!

If so many parents did such a great job of teaching their children what they need to know such as the difference between right and wrong, taking responsibility for one's actions, that what your body feels and what your body does are two different things and the mind can control both, etc. etc...then why do so many kids get into trouble? I hate to say the government should have to step in and make up for so many parent's lack of responsibility for raising their kids properly, but it is the government (and the rest of us) who have to pay for the consequences when they don't.

In our school, there is a unit called, "Human Development" that is taught to 5th grade students about the "facts of life". The curriculum is available for any parent to preview before the unit is taught and every parent has to sign a permission form ahead of time for their child to participate. Homosexuality and abortion are not part of the lessons and if kids have questions on those issues, the teachers very calmly explain that those questions should be discussed with parents at home. In 14 years I have seen about 10 kids (out of hundreds) opt out of the unit at parent's request and most parents are very grateful that it is offered. It is still very, very hard for many adults to talk to their kids about sex and those kids need factual information to counteract what they learn from other kids on the playground or from older siblings or cousins. We still have 11 year old girls who don't know much of anything about having periods and boys who don't know how their parts work or how they become fathers. They can "talk the talk" from watching TV and music videos but many of them don't really know the facts. Of course, there are parents who do a great job of preparing their kids and creating an atmosphere where they can ask questions, but, there are many who don't or can't and that is just not fair to kids. To restrict that due to silliness about the "homosexual agenda" or the "pro-choice agenda" is just not the way it is and people should take the time to look into it and see what is really being discussed in the class.

Good for Utah. Glad the governor actually has a bit of common sense.

Only an ignorant can say that taking contraceptives, they ere prevented from acquiring diseases transmitted by sex. The only thing certain is the use of condoms. This type of education is not scientific and only has the intention of promoting homosexuality create insecurity in the sexuality of children and accept abortion without moral significance equivalent to extract a tooth. Sexual education is very important and at the same time subject to much controversy, the Government must not usurp the work of parents, but if the intention of this law is to provide education, all political influence or agenda must be left to one side. Abortion is something that should be left to the parents that while it is legal, for many it is not moral and goes against their principles

Karen I remember getting sort of the same education as a hs freshman back many years ago. I can't recall anything ever being taught about HOW to have sex being taught so all you so-called righteous Repubs who are so afraid of your son or daughter being taught something like that are way out of line. I just wonder, also, do you even teach your son or daughter about sex or do you just tell them NOT TO have sexual relations with a person of opposite or same sex until they are at least 21. Someone mentioned a county in Utah that had one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in that state, OK with all Repub control in house, senate and gov now has the privilege of having one of the highest in the nation. Oh yeah, not sure how the Repubs can brag seeing as a few of them have been forced to resign the US House or Senate because of illicit affairs with men (yes, gay relationships).

No contraceptive, other than abstinence, is 100% effective. Just saying.

Homosexual sex? Are you that homophobic that you don't realize they aren't any less human then you are, so why would homosexual sex be different from say ANAL SEX WHICH HETEROS DO EVEN... >.> Please for the love of all god, use your brain, I think giving your opinion at least warrants it for the rest of us.

This is great news. It looks like for once reason prevailed over the unreasoning majority. I’ve never been able to understand how some of these ultra-conservatives get it in their heads that sex education somehow leads to promiscuity. After all, every intelligent rational person on the face of the earth knows for a fact that sex education has absolutely NO impact on the percentage of young people who are having sex, or how often they have it. It only effects how many of them are getting pregnant or are catching diseases. Its not even something you can debate, these are simply the indisputable scientific facts. You cannot stop people from having sex anymore than you can stop them from eating or breathing. You can only control how safe it is. Also you CANNOT teach someone to be a homosexual, you either are one or you are not, END OF STORY! But I know I’m really talking to a brick wall here because these people are not capable of intelligent rational thought. They are nothing more than big bags of preconceived notions and they will always believe what they want to believe regardless of the truth or the facts. And their major goal in life is to completely and utterly control their children and to mold them into being exactly like the are – scared irrational little morons who cannot think for themselves. Instead of raising kids who are naturally honest and ethical they think they have to indoctrinate their kids into being "good" people through threat and fear. Let’s make them afraid of drugs and sex and everything else rather than let them be informed and naturally responsible people. This is the motto of these kinds of parents. I guess that’s just life though and there is not much we can do about it because there is no reasoning with an unreasoning person.

redvirginia

Only an ignorant can say that taking contraceptives, they ere prevented from acquiring diseases transmitted by sex. The only thing certain is the use of condoms.

Who stated anything about contraceptives preventing disease? The ONLY certain thing is not having sex but preaching that doesn't work.

This type of education is not scientific and only has the intention of promoting homosexuality create insecurity in the sexuality of children and accept abortion without moral significance equivalent to extract a tooth.

Your choice of words shows you have NO clue what they teach. If anything your statement is in conflict with itself. The teaching of STD would be scientific and thus not state a thing about morals. By your own later statement morals should be taught by PARENTS not schools.

Sexual education is very important and at the same time subject to much controversy, the Government must not usurp the work of parents, but if the intention of this law is to provide education, all political influence or agenda must be left to one side.

The INTENT of the law that was VETOED was to outlaw teaching the FACTS, science, about sexual health.

Abortion is something that should be left to the parents that while it is legal, for many it is not moral and goes against their principles

Agreed. The parents who CONCEIVED not their parents or the church or government. Parents need to DEMONSTRATE and teach morals and ENCOURAGE them but it is the CHOICE of the two involved in procreation to determine the future for the three parties involved. Had the parents of the two involved managed to instill morals in their children would there even be a need to CHOOSE?

Teaching a FACT of any form that has been PROVEN by science has little to do with morals. Teaching that X causes Y is a fact. Instilling making the choice to do or not do X is teaching values and THAT is what parenting is ALL about.

Gayle Ruzicka: "By vetoing this bill, [the gov] just sent the message that Utah's stamp of approval [is] on teaching children how to have sex, teaching contraception and saying this is the safest way to have sex."

She just shot herself in the foot. Children - wrong or right - are going to experiment with sex as they have been doing for centuries, if not millennia. That is a fact, which she really must accept. Now, that said, either they learn on their own (and potentially make some tragic, devastating mistakes), or they are given guidance on this most natural of human behaviors, and make some informed choices. I see no problem with the latter. I wish such had been available to my generation instead of everyone thinking things will just work out fine if nobody gets involved or cares what happens to the children. It doesn't work that way.

ItIsWhat!t!s - You are absolutely right – abstinence IS the only 100% effective form of contraception. Just as abstaining from eating is the only 100% sure way to never contract a food born illness. And never leaving your house or having any human contact of any kind is the only 100% sure way to not catch any air born or surface born illnesses. But if we all were to live in fear and just stop living our lives altogether then what would be the point of being alive in the first place. Not to mention the fact that we all know that teen pregnancies are more prevelant in areas where they are kept ignorant about sex or feed false scare tactic type propaganda about sex.

Nature hands every child a loaded gun at puberty. You can teach them gun safety or you can stand by and do nothing and watch them shoot themselves in the head. Many parents are uncomfortable with the subject and won't discuss it. Many kids would rather talk to a adult other than a parent. Only the GOP would think that sending a kid out into the world uneducated is a good thing. Teaching them honestly about all sexual matters does not allow or encourage them to have sex. I have some news for some of you folks they are doing it without the knowledge anyway. What do you call kids that get no sex education? MOM and DAD!

its not about the kids, its not about the sex, or the homosexuality or the std's... its all and only about conservatives overstepping their role in society.. they think that the world is ready for their nonsense, this just proves that they are wrong.. just because you have a majority in a legislative body, does not mean that the people want to live by your book.. cheers to the gov'ner! common sense rules the day.!

Funny how republicans feel that parents know better when it comes to sex education, but not with religion. Suddenly we "need" the government (read: teachers) to teach our kids about "god" or religion. LMAO. Now, if only one is going to be taught in schools, it should be sex, the reason being that we do indeed have proof that sex exists.

Good to see the governor doing the right thing and now bowing to political pressure. If only more politicians had the nerve.

Nothing more vulnerable than kids. That is why the government must indoctrinate, oops I mean educate them at as early age as possible. Before those pesky PARENTS fill their heads with morals and standards that don't reflect the governments agendas.

If you haven't imparted standards to your kids by the time they reach middle school, which is usually when basic sex education begins, you're are quite frankly a bad parent, and somebody else needs to step in and do your job, because obviously you are not. Indoctrination...give me a break.

True things I heard from kids in middle school (4th-8th):

I am glad that I am a guy, because guys can't get AIDS.

You can use a condom twice, just turn it around, and you're good to go.

The thing about Coca Cola makes you not be pregnant

Something about beads which I dare not mention here

Come to think of it, I can't say any others here either because they are a bit too racy.

But, parents will not generally teach their kids about sex first. Other kids will. Is this really what you want them to know? And I can tell you for a FACT. "GOOD" MORMON, PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, OR MISC RELIGIOUS KIDS DO OCCASIONALLY HAVE SEX. Not all do, but a lot do. It is just ignorance to not teach things that will disprove what they already hear from other kids.

I see some LDS parents not letting their young teens watch PG-13 movies, then they ship them off to public schools?!?! Really? I taught 4th grade drug dealers. I heard 5th graders making jokes that made me blush. You put them in that environment, and expect to shelter them by not letting them watch PG-13 movies? Even many R rated movies do not have some of the stuff I heard from middle school kids. Get real parents. If you want to shelter your kids that much, home school them.

How does the republican mind get warped to such an extent as to believe that teaching children about the consequences of pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases encourages them to have sex?

HN-1558401

How do social conservatives manage to miss the point that under the current law, parents can OPT OUT of having their children take this class? Instead of exercising their own freedom, they seek to deny others' their freedom. How is that American?

Well, that gets right to the heart of the issue. Conservatives aren't trying to defend their right to follow their own beliefs. If that were the case they would be fine with giving other families the freedom to make a different choice. The reality is that conservatives want to force YOU to follow THEIR beliefs.

LOL

They're definitely not sexually repressed! Remember, we're talking about the Mormons here, who really like having LARGE families.

Sometimes I think Utah is the last place in the country that raises moderate Republicans. Bravo to the governor!

I still support Jon Huntsman.

just like those red necks down south bumbs as a coal bucket

They're definitely not sexually repressed! Remember, we're talking about the Mormons here, who really like having LARGE families.

Being sexually repressed doesn't mean a person doesn't have sex, it means they just don't want to admit it or talk about it. Think about what really causes embarrassment over sexual discussions. What's the basis for the shyness?

It's part and parcel of the debilitating and destructive ersatz piety that is the hallmark of so many conservatives.

Isn't it a tenet of Mormonism to keep your children ignorant as long as possible?

"Are these people stupid or just sexually repressed?"

Yes.

stonedog34

They're definitely not sexually repressed! Remember, we're talking about the Mormons here, who really like having LARGE families.

Let me guess, you are Catholic.

just like those red necks down south bumbs as a coal bucket

Terry - Unlike you, those "red necks down south" can at least construct complete sentences that make sense. What the heck does "bumbs as a coal bucket" mean, Einstein?

Let me see 8 Kids because of no Sex Ed???!!! I guess on the Job training doesn't work either

You don't have to go to the city or the ghetto to see unwed mothers of multiple children by multiple fathers they're in every small town and most were raised in christian homes.That's why small towns have trailer parks they're the housing projects of rural America.If you live in a nice neighborhood its easy to think that your better than everyone else because your mistakes live across town in the only place they can afford.

That's why small towns have trailer parks they're the housing projects of rural America.If you live in a nice neighborhood its easy to think that your better than everyone else because your mistakes live across town in the only place they can afford.

Wow. I'm making that my favorite quote of the day. Thanks.

when you are getting married and your future mother in law is also pregnant - you might be a mormon. (or a participant in "quivverfull")

seriously, though - I didn't expect a Utah governor to have the CAJONES to tell the legislature that they had their COLLECTIVE HEADS UP THEIR COLLECTIVE ASSES. Bravo for the action.

Let me guess, you are Catholic.

LOL

This coming from a guy who isn't smart enough to look into my comment history and see that I have spent a considerable amount of time bashing religion and catholicism in particular.

The more you post, trust_verify, the dumber you look! :D

Being sexually repressed doesn't mean a person doesn't have sex, it means they just don't want to admit it or talk about it. Think about what really causes embarrassment over sexual discussions. What's the basis for the shyness?

hmmm...I wonder if there's a correlation between sexual repression and a state that ranks number one in online porn subscriptions?

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705288350/Utah-No-1-in-online-porn-subscriptions-report-says.html

canary-in-the-coal-mine

when you are getting married and your future mother in law is also pregnant - you might be a mormon. (or a participant in "quivverfull")

More likely you won't get married, have fathered multiple children by multiple women, all of them on the dole including the not to be mother in law.

stonedog34

LOL

This coming from a guy who isn't smart enough to look into my comment history and see that I have spent a considerable amount of time bashing religion and catholicism in particular.

The more you post, trust_verify, the dumber you look! :D

So you suggest I should "stalk" you? I took your statement IN context and the spirit it was offered. You obviously have NO clue about LDS or Catholicism.

The more juvenile your attacks the less credible you are. At your suggestion I did go look at your recent comments... Seems you call people stupid and idiot about as often as you make a contribution to the discussion. I may or may not agree with your views, about 50/50, on a topic but when the name calling is equal to or greater than the contributions it is obvious when you run out of facts or shown to be wrong you resort to name calling in an attempt to discredit the other side. Remember YOU suggested I review your comments in other threads.

You obviously have NO clue about LDS or Catholicism.

LOL First you call me Catholic, then you try to reverse course? Boy I must really get under your skin!

But these are just MORE CRASS ASSUMPTIONS by trust_verify. That's the THIRD TIME you have made an assertive statement about someone you don't know.

So you suggest I should "stalk" you?

When did I suggest that? What I WILL suggest is that if you are going to go around making assertions about others like they're facts, you should make sure you know what you're talking about, otherwise it's slander.

The more juvenile your attacks, the less credible you are.

Yeah, that's why people agree with me so much. Because what I post is so unbelievable. :D

BTW, I grew up Mormon, until I was a teenager and my parents let me make my own decisions about whether or not to go to church, which is when I stopped because I didn't buy the hype. So yes, I do know all about kooky Mormonism, and a lot of the families there were quite large. I also dated a Catholic chick in highschool, and learned everything I need to know about those peole from the few times her family, which was also rather large (7 kids), talked me into going to mass with them.

And calling someone an idiot has nothing to do with 'discrediting them', it's just my opinion of them. Just like calling YOU a slandering jackass. Oh, no, wait, that would be true!

@ culheath

They're definitely not sexually repressed! Remember, we're talking about the Mormons here, who really like having LARGE families.

"Being sexually repressed doesn't mean a person doesn't have sex.... It's part and parcel of the debilitating and destructive ersatz piety that...."

culheath, you get an (MY) award for intelligent/educated vocabulary but not "too" intelligent/educated "a" vocabulary. Good on you, Sir!

Sad to say, but I think William F Buckley, Jr. wouldn't survive this site. (Personally, I dare not venture into multisyllabic words....) But you...? My sincerest good luck!

Let's cross our fingers! Maybe (?) there's hope on NewsVine?...

(OMG -- NewsVine's spellcheck just challenged me on "multisyllabic." <sigh> )

Oh....

Now I'd better make a post about the topic!

As was everyone else here, I was once a teenager. The LAST person on the planet I wanted to talk "sex" with was a parent (in my case, Mother).

I should say, I'm a Boomer. I thought things would have changed by now (and fortunately, a lot has!); unfortunately, a lot has not.

The best "Sex-Ed" teacher is NOT a parent, but an Aunt or Uncle!

Even with Sex-Ed, how many "girls" still think they "can't" get pregnant because they've not had a period? How many girls (who are not yet "usual") think they can use a so-called rhythm method? How many girls (and boys, for that matter) think if the boy "pulls out," the girl can't get pregnant?

Without Sex-Ed -- see the above! Unless a girl lives on a farm, how many girls actually know how suddenly ("it-only-takes-once" AKA, IN HEAT) babies can be made? How many girls (or boys) think, "It won't happen this time..."? How many girls and girls think they're "too young" for it to happen?

[UTAH/Mormons... sooo easy to "pick" on. (And apparently, lately, it's OK[?].) Why? Because it's not just "lately." For a majority of "Christians," the LDS bigotry continues. Just as with Scientologists (who have rewritten their history to delete the space aliens), the Mormons have rewritten their history.
(Yes, I'm ready to be collapsed) ]

And so with ONLY religious training, how many girls (and boys) are misinformed about how, "Once you're in looooove..." and, "when the time is riiiiiight...."

All who can actually read numbers/"statistics" -- where are most "out-of-wedlock" babies born? I'll give you a hint: it's not the "Blue" states.

The Republicans in government are for smaller government, except when they aren't.

I second that "thanks Gov. Herbert". To leave people in the dark about facts and risks of the very act that helps grow their families is an attack on the public health, and never "an appropriate piece of legislation".

Lets see..GOP says sex education is teaching kids how to have sex..Gop wants no part of contraception..Gop wants goverment out of our lives..GOP wants to eliminate Social Security..GOP wants to kill Medicare...Gop wants to go to war with Iran..Gop wants to make Puerto Rico speak english or go away..Gop wants women to have to pay for transvaginal scoping..GOP wants to drill for oil everywhere..GOP wants to get rid of the EPA..GOP wants to get rid of Unions..GOP wants GM and Chrysler to go bankrupt..GOP wants to continue insider trading..GOP wants to fire teachers..GOP wants to invade Syria..GOP wants to eliminate taxes for the very rich...OK...how is this the party of small goverment, Freedom of choice, speech and pursuit of happiness???

I'm glad the Governor vetoed the bill. Are there any commenters from Utah who might venture a guess about if the State Legislature will be able to over-ride the veto? Thanks.

Teenagers are going to have sex with or without education. Nobody needs to teach a rabbit how to have sex do they? They know what to do. Sex education would give them the knowledge to help make a wise decision when their parents' heads are turned and not watching what little Timmie and Tina are doing. Some parents do want their children to have a formal education in the subject and their view should be respected. If you don't want your child to have this knowledge, pull them out of the classroom. Just don't complain when little Annie has to sneak off to get treated for Chlamydia or get an abortion because her partner didn't know how to properly put on a condom. Great Job Governor!!!

Voices of reason -- thank you!

Sex ed has been taught in the class room for 50 years.

Get your facts straight, Priest. Sex ed has not been taught for 50 years. I learned the same way as everyone else in my generation...from my friends who had no better clue than I. The only thing taught to us in school was the day when our gym class was told about our "special friend" that we girls would greet once every month. That was after the fact for most of us.

Sosad.....If little Annie's partner even know how or where to get a condom or how to put it on without puncturing it first.LOL

Who knows perhaps these classes will teach little Annie about Femidoms too, how to protect herself and even how to say no and perhaps how to extricate herself out of difficult sexually charged situations as well.

Perhaps this class will teach these kids that engaging in oral sex does not does not stop them from contracting syphillis, gonorrhoea or other sexually transmitted diseases in the throat or mouth as well as elsewhere, if one partner already has these diseases i.e. is infected, as some kids seem to think that they are practicing abstainance provided that they do not engage in vaginal sex. Many a young heterosexual female have been diagnosed with HIV/Aids yet state she is still a virgin and upon gyn examination is found to be indeed a virgin.

Noting this may be shocking to some readers but what is stated is indeed true. We live in difficult times where children are becoming sexually active and abusing alcohol at younger ages than years ago. Perhaps it is because of parents not having enough time to provide guidance/parenting for their children, as many families have to have both parents working outside the home and both having to work long hours to make ends meet especially with stagnating/stagnant wages and high cost of living especially since the 1980-1990s and the various downturns in the economy. Although some parents may or would like to work less hours they are forced/required to work overtime, as employers require that they do so as a matter of continued employment i.e. required by contract.

One other thing is that some parents are not comfortable talking with their kids about sex while some or most children are not comfortable talking with their parents about it either, as they cannot or do not want to believe their parents even have or had sex in the first place. :)

In states where only abstainance is taught or where pregnany and sexually transmitted disease prevention is not taught in school, there is a higher incidence of teen pregnancy and no doubt where these children do not finish school. Who is going to employ youngsters that haven't even finished highschool plus now have a child or children to support? And if these youngsters shoud be lucky enough to get a job, what sort of hourly wage would they be making that would be enough to support themself plus a child or children?

Ignorance is not bliss in these circumstance or any circumstance, as what you do not know can hurt you, especially if you are a child/teenager who is exposed to so many temptations and mixed messages in this society.

Peace...... knowledge.... wisdom....

mr massett - thank you

Head Priest of temple of Syrinx

I was taught sex education in the seventh grade (1973) and I lived in a town of 40,000 people. Larger cities were generally 10-15 years ahead of us as it pertained to cirriculum.

hmmm generally sex ed started in RURAL areas. Something about farmers and seeing it happen all the time I guess. But reality is "sex" was not part of sex ed in the 70's. How dare some teacher teach a Catholic about SEX... it was a mortal and moral sin. Even in this day and age kids are "learning" more from their peers than is taught in the average classroom. Hell even the military has gone PC and censors the videos that were made in the 60's if there is a CHANCE it may be watched by mixed genders.

Though sex ed may have been taught for 50 years, it hasn't been an equal education. Some schools had better sex ed curriculum than others. It's no surprise that some kids would get comprehensive sex ed, and others would get the abstinence only sex ed. Location, and social demographics play a huge part on how much education a student will get.

Comprehensive sex ed needs to be equal across the nation. Even in 2012 education is spotty. Not only does abstinence only education not work, its message is hypocritical with Bristol Palin as the spokesperson. Kids don't like hypocrisy. They sure as heck don't like the rhetoric, "do as I say, not as I do" when they question hypocrisy.

PRIEST- You obviously were not taught sex ed. You were probably in biology class. There is a big difference between learning the word "penis" and learning about the multitude of STDs that await the sexually active. I am a teacher, and in my school the kids have a very thorough sex ed (with pics of STDs). The looks on their faces are priceless. The LAST thing on their minds, when lecture is over, is running out and getting laid. In fact the majority of them look like they will lose their lunch. We also have a ridiculously low pregnancy rate at our school despite the fact that the majority of our students are pro-life. They are informed and therefor armed to make a choice- including saying "no" to sex. In fact, our young ladies feel more empowered to say no to sex because they have had these conversations and discussed with their male peers in class their feelings about becoming pregnant or getting an STD. The openness and education is what demystifies the allure of teen sex. The boys know where the girls stand and the girls know where the boys stand- BEFORE they ever go out on a date!

@Priest:

You're wrong: Teen pregnancy rate in 2005 was 39 in 1000 births. In 1991 it was 59 in 1000 births. That's what is called "Getting better".

There is a long way to go. Compared to countries that have a thorough and complete sex education and easily available contraception, the US needs to bring its teen pregnancy rate down to 5 in a 1000.

Sadly, the same improvement has not been seen in STD infection rates.

Shosyn ...

You are right about one thing (and only one) ... it's not funny.

As I watched the morning news, I was thinking about how it's nice that we still have a few legislators in Congress with some integrity who are willing to take a principled stand when a dictator is trying to kill his own people with hunger.

It's also not funny how you reach wa-a-a-a-y out for something totally unrelated to criticize the people you hate.

As Andrew Hyatt Masset III so clearly pointed out, the GOP does seem to be the party of negativity and hatred. They don't seem to be for anything ... just against a whole lot of things.

(I voted Andrew's comment up, by the way.)

Shosyn- your reach exceeded your grasp darlin'. Although technically in the Sudan, as they were on the steps of the Sudanese embassy, they were still in the good old USofA. This was not an action by "democrats". It was an action by people of conscience who want to draw attention to a massive humanitarian disaster; millions of people forcibly starved to death and terrorized by their government and its cronies. Their actions have nothing to do with fixing the economy since that is NOT their directive. Their directive is to leave the world a better place than they found it. I hope yours is basic reading/media comprehension.

I suppose that the "head" priest has a better idea - "Well, duh - she has this hole right there...maybe I can just fit my weenie in there..." Sex ed is like teaching HISTORY - "People who do not learn the lessons of HISTORY are doomed to repeat them!" Substitute "sex ed" for history and TRY IT AGAIN...gee... SAME RESULT. At the age sex-ed is taught (the REAL THING) kids are old enough to reproduce. Early teen curiosity being what it is, without their having the KNOWLEDGE, THEY WILL! (and history repeats itself, YET AGAIN...)

Shosyn,

They demonstrated in front of their embassy in Wash DC here in the USA! Should we have gone and send thousands of our troops to Sudan instead? Like Iraq by you know who? And yes, let me throw your question back at you?

"Explain how they are helping AMERICANS here with JOBS. EDUCATION, HIGH GAS PRICES, INFLATION and MORE...."

Shosyn... considering that the T'publicons have been the majority in the house of representatives after the 2010 elections they have done nothing to help create jobs like they promised. They stated that if the rich/corporations kept their Bush era taxbreaks, subsidies etc they would create jobs. The only thing they did was to change the rules so that they work 2 weeks per month in congress and did not create any jobs as promised, did not pass a rational jobs bill, fought over funding for FEMA and did not want to help all those states that were impacted by that hurricane that affected a large portion of the country, would not raise the country's debt limit in a timely fashion to where the USA credit rating was downgraded to a double A from a Triple A rating for the first time, held up appointments and are still holding up appointments, continue to try to destroy the USPS by requiring post offices and other sorting centers to shut down and to pink slip thousands of employees, and various other nonsense that affected our country negatively.

There was also the forclosure issue where their inaction also helped to cause even more people to lose their homes and refused to pass a jobs bill to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure that would have created jobs, are still busy trying to do away with rules, regs and oversight re protection of our water, land, sea, and air, and trying to get rid of the public safetynets like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid etc by trying to privatize same in an attempt to had them over to the for-profit folks etc. There is also the McConnel statement about working to make Pres Obama a 1 term president, their pushing for war with Iran, for us to bomb Syria, and being against the drawdown in Afghanistan and were against our Armed Forces leaving Iraq...... and the list goes on. Must not forget the T'repubcons signing allegiance to Norquist to not raise taxes on the rich/corportions even when the revenues are needed to to help pay for the 2 unfunded wars started during the Bush. Denying and or cutting unemployemnt insurance benefits for the unemployed. Do you know that those who receive unemployment insurance benefits must still pay taxes on it as it is looked upon as earnings/wages?

Those are some of the things that the T'pubcons did, i.e. were busily working on not helping the people of this country even as the newly elected T'pubcon govs were busy giving taxbreaks to the rich/corporations while laying off first responders, teachers, nurses, police officers, firefighters and fighting with public employees trying to get rid of chunks of their benefits, pay and their unions. Ah...yeah... must not forget the whole 'corporations are people too thing allowing the formation of these super pacs who do not have to make the name their donors known thus foreign countries/corps could be influencing our elections.

Anyhoo, so a few democratic congress persons were at the Sudanese embassy in DC protesting and bringing attention to that government's raining distruction and genocide on their own people to get these people off their own land by starvation and bombings.... well I suppose when it comes down to real estate, minerals etc there is always some entity behind these govs trying to kill their own people for profit.

Wonder what would have happened or how further along in our country's recovery we would be if the T'pubcondinos had worked with the democrats on behalf of our country and peoples instead of being a road/stumbling block? hmmm

Peace.....

Shosyn @ 4.14

"The got ARRESTED IN SUDAN hanging out with activist. "

Exactly the type of "fact" you would expect from someone who watches Fox News.

This American Life on NPR gets parts of a story wrong and they dedicate the entirety of their next program to correcting any mistakes (I'm listening to it right now).

Fox News gets caught lying and their lawyers argue that it doesn't matter because they're actually an entertainment program.

Shosyn says -

Here is what "your" democratic politicians did yesterday. The got ARRESTED IN SUDAN hanging out with activist. Explain how they are helping AMERICANS here with JOBS. EDUCATION, HIGH GAS PRICES, INFLATION and MORE.....

How come when overt lies are presented, it's always by a Republican? It's time for a reality check.

1. They got arrested in the USA, not Sudan.

2. Jobs: Corporations have offshored 54% of their new hires since the stimulus, but nevertheless the unemployment is down to about 8.3% from a high of 10.2%. My calculator says that if all new hires were Americans, unemployment would now be 6.1%. The President (a Democrat if I'm not mistaken) has done this all by himself. Clinton handed Bush a 4.5% unemployment, and Bush handed Obama a 10.2% unemployment. Reality check - Bush raised unemployment by 5.7%, Obama has lowered unemployment by 1.9%, but it would have been lowered by 4.1% if American corporations had hired American workers exclusively. But my guess is that delusional people such as yourself will still vote to support the very ideology that gave us that high unemployment. At least this President is lowering it.

3. Gas prices are caused by commodities speculation: when oil is allowed to be traded like a stock, the cost of crude oil is not controlled by consumerism, like supply and demand. If anything, the high cost of oil is the result of Republicans supporting oil speculation.

4. Inflation: what inflation? Inflation is currently very very low and is therefore NOT a problem.

5. Education: Public education is necessary.You may think it needs to be improved, but unless you are a TEACHER, you do not deserve to express an opinion about HOW any improvement can be facilitated. One thing is certain - cutting education funding is NOT the answer.

Now for your last bit - I urge you to follow your own advice and...

Take your partisan hateful rhetoric and get out of the USA immediately.

for Justme-123:

Concerning the 1912 election, it was very interesting!

The United States presidential election of 1912 was a rare four-way contest.^[1] Incumbent President William Howard Taft was renominated by the Republican Party with the support of its conservative wing. After former President Theodore Roosevelt failed to receive the Republican nomination, he called his own convention and created the Progressive Party (nicknamed the "Bull Moose Party"). It nominated Roosevelt and ran candidates for other offices in major states. Democrat Woodrow Wilson was finally nominated on the 46th ballot of a contentious convention, thanks to the support of William Jennings Bryan, the three-time Democratic presidential candidate who still had a large and loyal following in 1912. Eugene V. Debs was the nominee of the Socialist Party of America.

Wilson defeated Taft, Roosevelt, and Debs in the general election, winning a huge majority in the Electoral College and 42% of the popular vote, while his nearest rival, Roosevelt, won only 27%. Wilson became the only elected president from the Democratic Party between 1892 and 1932. He was the second of only two Democrats to be elected president between 1860 and 1932. This was the last election in which a candidate who was not a Republican or Democrat came second in either the popular vote or the Electoral College, and the first election in which all 48 states of the contiguous United States participated.

(sorry - this was and still is in #4 - I just wanted it to be out in the open - so it's not about #5)

I suppose that the "head" priest has a better idea - "Well, duh - she has this hole right there...maybe I can just fit my weenie in there..." Sex ed is like teaching HISTORY - "People who do not learn the lessons of HISTORY are doomed to repeat them!" Substitute "sex ed" for history and TRY IT AGAIN...gee... SAME RESULT.

At the age sex-ed is taught (the REAL THING) kids are old enough to reproduce. Early teen curiosity being what it is, without their having the KNOWLEDGE, THEY WILL! (and history repeats itself, YET AGAIN...)

If people want to see countries with no sex ed, look no further than most 3rd world countries. Is that what we are going to become?

well, yes and no - Bristol couldn't break the FAMILY TRADITION, could she? (gramma, mum and daughter, all preggers before matrimony - not that it actually MATTERS...at least she had a BOY - that breaks the curse...maybe)

Why don't we ask the ex-half-governor of Alaska to weigh in on this issue, shall we?

she doesn't have it written on her palm-pilot memory reminder

Yoo betcha, maverick!

Lockstep drone obedience is easier than thinking and better for the army that is smaller.

...forced transvaginal ultrasounds...

Since when have ultrasounds been forced on women? Jeez!

Since when have ultrasounds been forced on women? Jeez!

Since such legislation requiring it has been passed by conservative governments...check out Virginia for example.

Scales, do you watch the news? Women are being forced to have ultrasounds.

Not only are women being forced to have ultrasounds they are being charged for the procedure. Wonder what would happen if women refused to pay as it was an unwanted and not medically required.

That's an interesting idea...women should refuse to pay for the procedure en masse as another political protest against this ongoing assault on their personal freedoms. We (women and men) need to use every tool in the box to beat back this latest insane and atavistic attack on women.

that's the trouble with being an unedgeecatud RIGHTWINGER - you take the PAP they feed you and call it "good" - even PRAISE IT (if it comes from fux network news, it's "fair and balanced" /s)

Scales67...

Last month, in Virginia. Jeez

Currently in Texas.

Lady Cat (& culheath)

"Not only are women being forced to have ultrasounds they are being charged for the procedure. Wonder what would happen if women refused to pay as it was an unwanted and not medically required."

OOH, the legal complications of that will go on and on.... Wait a minute!!!!

My thoughts (bear with me!?):

THE SET UP:

No one should get a "flu shot" (vaccination) if one has a virus (e.g., a cold). If the lymph glands are even the littlest bit swollen, a responsible MD won't give the shot.

ALL patients should be checked for swollen lymph tissue.

So....

EQUALITY STEPS IN: (fair is fair....)

Every state should pass a LAW requiring EVERY MAN, who wants a flu shot to have a "full-on" prostate exam to check the lymph nodes in his groin and privates -- the glove, the Vaseline, up to the elbow exam!

Before being "allowed" to get flu shot (since "flu" is a virus... i.e. a living organism the man chooses to terminate/ kill/ MURDER), he should be thoroughly checked. He should also have to "sit-through" the MD's explanation about how the vaccine will kill living organisms and, then, be sent home for at least 24 hours to "think about it."

BTW, for women, our groin lymph tissue is very easily checked/accessible -- we don't even need to take off our panties!

NEXT STEP:

What so you think, WOMEN?!!! Perasonally, it sounds really good to me!

Hey, btw,

Read a report (on MSNBC) the other day saying post-menopausal women need a PAP smear only every five years.

AND did you know, it's no longer recommended a man get "an annual" prostate exam???

That's new news. Of course you know, they "think" they have a "simple blood test" for men's prostates. No more having to stick an arm up his you-know-....

And so it goes," as Linda Ellerbee would say.

Way to go, male researchers... the same researchers who said/say we (women) have to have our breasts flattened to look for cancer?

2012...VOTE

(doesn't matter for how/what party, just VOTE for women)

(wasn't allowed to post the link)

You got that from the idiot in Chief...

Republicans want to "take our country back".

Given that they are the minority (40%) I don't see where they can legitimately claim the country is theirs to "take back" anywhere or when at all.

@jsmith: If the Chief is an idiot for speaking intlligently, that makes one wonder hof incredibaly stupid that makes you.

... that makes one wonder hof incredibaly stupid that makes you.

Ed - Pot/Kettle? It's best to know how to spell before calling others stupid, Einstein.

no, it simply means that he didn't use firefox (with the built in spellchecker) jmsmith is obviously one of our "highly educated rightwingers" or he would not try to ascribe the term "idiot" to a HAHVAHD LAWYAH

culheath - you think it's actually as high as 40% - I might have estimated 25% "hard core" with a few fellow travelers./ Oh well... still way less than 50%...

culheath - you think it's actually as high as 40% - I might have estimated 25% "hard core"

That's what the polls indicate, however I agree with your assessment personally. It's the same 20-25% that kept Bush in for a second term.

I don't know where you got your information but the LDS Church has three colleges that I know of. You must be thinking about someone else. You're looking a little uneducated yourself.

Those 3 colleges are for the privileged few. The tuition alone is more than most can pay especially when you roll back wages

For the privileged few? Tuition at BYU costs $2,280/semester. If you can get in, you can afford it. Also, there have been massive campaigns by the people to get this bill overturned. For the other side, parents in Utah have the right to decide whether their student is involved in these sex education classes.

and the ones who opt out are likely to become "grandparents" quickly enough.

they already did it is called signing a wavier and opting out.

actually smith - 2 specifically "mormon oriented" - BYU and LDS Business. the others are STATE schools (of course, by their very nature and the population "mormon' DOMINATED, BUT NOT "MORMON" SCHOOLS)

Depends on how one counts canary. 3 or 4. Would you consider BYU Hawaii a separate school from BYU Utah?

Evita, "Poor, defenseless kids". I'm sure these are parents that love their children and want to protect them from the deviancy that the liberal media (MSNBC, etc) what to teach these children is okay or normal. Utah is a great State. I travel there at least once a year on business and found the people to be wonderful. They love and value their children. Dividing people because of a few religious doctoral differences, is one of the deceptions that the left has been successful at. This allows them to indoctrinate "poor, defenseless kids" into thinking immorality is morality.

The nice thing about elected Officials is, they have to stand for re-election. Whether this hurts or helps this Governor, only time will tell.

There's nothing deviant about teaching sex education. Back in the "good old days" when I was a young girl, I didn't have a clue about sex, sexually transmitted diseases one could get, safe sex or any other kind of sex. I had wonderful parents who taught me a lot, but never even mentioned the word sex in my presence so certainly never "taught" me anything about it. Fortunately, by the time I actually had sex, I had gleaned enough about it to keep myself safe.

Knowledge, not ignorance of any aspect of life is a good, important thing, jmsmith - even (gasp) knowledge about homosexuals. And I'm sure that Utah is a great state, and the governor vetoing this bill is another way of keeping it a great state.

Making state laws using one of the "few religious doctoral (sic) differences" is what divides people, not liberals, which may be one of the most uneducated statements I've ever read on this site. It's requiring by law that people abide by these "religious" differences that divides people, and you can take it to the bank that that is not being done by "liberals" like myself.

Calling sex education which includes the range of human sexual experience "deviant" is like calling the colors of a rainbow deviant because they are "degraded" from white light.

Putting blinders on kids just makes it more likely they will get hit by a car or bus once they're out in traffic.

There's nothing immoral about teaching facts, but there's a great deal immoral about withholding them; especially if that omission of facts only serves to protect some assumed ideology.

Think North Korea.

So let me see if I have the gist of your ignorance in perspective. Apparently, by your incredibly convuluted reasoning, it is wrong for ANYBODY liberal OR conservative to protest against and get arrested for, something that is obviously wrong. Such as the situtation in the Sudan. And for showing the moral courage and sense of responsibilty to do so. Because apparently that means they do not have the intelligence to do this AND concentrate on the problems in America.

The out of touch one here is yourself. And I hate to rain on your stupid parade when you state "DEMOCRATS are so out of touch with AMERICANS, but for the record (now try to follow along here) they ARE AMERICANS. And just as "American" as you are. As for comparing these people to morons? I would say the same about you, but that would be insulting the intelligence of morons.

Clooney's father, journalist Nick Clooney, 78, was with him and was also arrested, as were Martin Luther King III, NAACP President Ben Jealous, comedian and activist Dick Gregory, Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.), Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.), Rep. John Olver (D-Mass.), Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) and former Rep. Tom Andrews (D-Mass.). The group was restrained with plastic handcuffs and taken away by police

And Obviously you didn't read it or watch it . This happened in Washington D.C. on the steps of the Sudanese embassy to draw attention to the human rights issues in Sudan Where children are starved or killled or used for sex then killed.

ProgressiveforAmerica

So let me see if I have the gist of your ignorance in perspective. Apparently, by your incredibly convuluted reasoning, it is wrong for ANYBODY liberal OR conservative to protest against and get arrested for, something that is obviously wrong. Such as the situtation in the Sudan. And for showing the moral courage and sense of responsibilty to do so. Because apparently that means they do not have the intelligence to do this AND concentrate on the problems in America.

The out of touch one here is yourself. And I hate to rain on your stupid parade when you state "DEMOCRATS are so out of touch with AMERICANS, but for the record (now try to follow along here) they ARE AMERICANS. And just as "American" as you are. As for comparing these people to morons? I would say the same about you, but that would be insulting the intelligence of morons.

you are not even close....

They are AMERICAN representatives for the AMERICAN people.... head over to Sudan and TOW your party line.

I am glad you point out your PROGRESSIVE views and then insult me personally. That makes your points look mute, as if you had one besides being pissed at me for showing you in black and white what democrats were doing yesterday in a foreign nation with AMERICAN tax dollars.

Lets agree you and I are both AMERICANS.... and that is ALL we have in common. So you vote your democratic leaders into office and I will vote independent, as I always have, for the BEST PERSON and not a party line.

I am not voting for a bunch of DEMOCRATS that are in foreign nations getting arrested with movie star activist

August-506561,

That foreign nations embassy is that nations territory... but what ever.

regardless, america has fallen down and we need our politicians taking care of AMERICA and I do not give a rats ass what dictator or oppressive regime is doing to the people under them.

Those people can rise on there own or perish.

I will take my egoism over your altruism anyday

I will take my egoism over your altruism anyday

Interesting...why would that be? Can you explain your attitude for the rest of the class?

Shosyn,

I didn't know that Washington, DC was in Sudan. Thanks, I learned something new today.

That foreign nations embassy is that nations territory... but what ever

I get what your saying however Washington D.C is still mostly American soil and located in America.

I even get what you are saying about the politicians needed to take care of America.

YouTube :

Florida congressman Alan Grayson laughs in Ben Bernanke's face, priceless!However what is being done to fix the situation. 1/2 a trillion dollars going to foreign banks with little accountability, I think the repercussions are a bit more over whelming, then Clooney getting arrested.

Same thing with DOD budget missing 2.3 trillion dollars who accountable and fixing that mess because it happens year after year after year.

Now to this article if parents have the right to opt out then what is the big deal? I am glad he veto the bill honestly why waste all that money and time on a bill in the first place when there is so many more pressing issues.

Northlite,

This is a little off topic, but they are going after cuts in funding, or do not want increased funding to those whom they thought would be an easy target. Women, and children. Because most legislators are not women, and even though many of them have wives and daughters,(children)they live in their own little manufactured world. They have never learned to walk a mile in the shoes of any woman. Nor do they want to, and they will never have to. So it is easy for most of them to think of their own needs, even if it ends up biting them in their own a--.

It was enlightening to see a Governor(R) take a stand against his own party nonsense. Maybe he is a closet Independant, in Republican clothing.

Poorly uneducated kids produce many more babies. These babies are need to work the Republican Party slave labor camps in another 12 to 15 years. Stupid, uneducated kids you can pay them little or nothing and make them think your doing them a favor.

commonsenseaintcommon

Now go blaming ignorance on Jesus? The Mormons aren't even Christians. They used to call Christians "Gentiles" and behind closed doors still do. You are an ididot.

Chris·tian

1.of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.

id·i·ot/ˈidēət/
Noun:

A stupid person.

gen·tile/ˈjentīl/
Adjective:
Not Jewish.

When throwing around BIG words at least spell them correctly and know their meaning.
Get an education or at least google. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The book of Mormon. Just like other books of the Bible... or do you call them sections .... ain't common?

from reading gold tablets in a gunny sack with a magic stone...but I suppose that as long as one is willing to accept other bit of religious idiocy, like, say talking snakes and world-wide floods that covered all of the mountains to name just two, what difference does one more make? must be a mormon - nobody ELSE would be THAT DOGMATIC (WOOF!)

ROFLMFAO!! (and rightfully so, I must admit)

Just a typical low flying statement from a gen z or As I like to refer to them as,Gen Entitlement.The GE's have an answer for everything...government.They want government to run everyones' life mainly because they are weak they,the GE can't run their own.The are lazy,over educated for any job(in their minds),no worth of entry level position and ignorant superiors.They usually spend their day using their lastest version of the ifone to send comments to threads like this one.The only work they do get paid for ,probably less than minimum wage, is out to send these messages .I contemd most are paid by some front company set up by either SEIU or the democrap party.They scream about low waging rather than looking for a decent one,they sit around thier mommys' home leaching off of her and sending these messages out all day They promote the gay/lesbian life style and you know what they say about anyone that disagrees with that position,you are a homophobe!There's never an end to their vitriol

are you babbling again? Anything someone else should pay any attention to?

Mormons aren't even Christians. They used to call Christians "Gentiles" and behind closed doors still do. You are an ididot.

Mormons aren't even Christians.

Mormons aren't even Christians.

Reported as a personal attack, commonsense.

I have to say though, it's amusing as well as interesting to see you dictate who is and who isnt a christian to the rest of us.

That would be for "Whites ONLY".

Minorities should continue with birth control.

Please tell that to the REST of the liberals!

well - hate intolerance and ignorance do SEEM to be in short supply among progressives - but a HOT COMMODITY for rightwingnutreligionazis

...until you tell a progressive that they are wrong. Then you see what they really have. And if you like that, have the gall to tell them why they are wrong and you'll see even more.

More of the pot calling the kettle black.

Bag Al, you mean all the friction? You need more lube dude.

I see the ubrer left has picked up the talking points as they refer to Mormons.They have it set to start hammering away at Mitt when comes cloes to winning the nomination!Rather than worring about republican why don't you do an expose on Ms.Barnie Frank who I believe was running a gay porn shop and whore house out his apartment while he was a congressman, not that many years ago.You don't you look a little past Berrie(the Bomber) to some the past stars of the Democrap party.How about Geoge Wallace or Thurm Sturmen,the orginal Mr. KKK .Which part do you think was behind not segregating the schools in the South in the 1940's,50s'60' and into the 70s'? Certainly not the repubs,that's for sure!You need to find a history book that dates back before Berrie took office Go drink you berrie kool-aide!I'll bring you some more democrap party stars from the past for you to explain!

Huh???

What???

J in Cinci,

Want to give this one another try?

"the book learning part is in the BOOK, the practical application is OJT" (as near as I can tell)

There is....it's the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution....but that doesn't phase the bible-babbling Reich. After, the laws of the mythical sky fairy trump every other laws.

Praise be to dog.

John YOU are poorly informed. Life begins when a baby starts breathing???? Are you Fing serious? Maybe you need to go watch an ultrasound video of an unborn baby. Life starts well before the baby is born and starts breathing. My little girl started getting hiccups while my wife was just 5 months into the pregnancy. So are you trying to tell me my little girl had the hiccups but wasnt alive???? Morons like you are all about killing babies yet the convicted criminals in this country deserve to stay off of death row because its inhumane. Unfreaking believable.

Stephen whats your point? 1st amendment is freedo mof speech... what does that have to do with religion??? I can say whatever I want.... like your a fing jackazz... and that is my right. I can also beleive what I want without being persecuted by idiots who dont.

Thom, you have a right to your beliefs, you have the right to express them. You have the right to oppose opposite opinions. You also have the right to hear rebuttal. Until abortion is repealed as a law, your stuck with it. Until the righteous religious right works harder and comes up with a solution of what happens after this child comes into the world, making sure they are adopted, and well cared for, your not interested in the unborn child, your interested in your own religious driven moral views. It would be nice if we no longer have abortions, but in many cases the child is left in a situation that it's life will be one of emotional pain and discord with society. It is still a women's choice. Her body is hers, not yours. Keep your morality and religion to yourself. some of us want nothing to do with your disease.

It seems our Founders disagree with you John!

" We have no Government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is inadaquate for the government of any other" John Adams

"We've staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of Government, far from it! We've staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity...to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God" James Madison

A question for you John. If as you state, " Life begins when a baby starts breathing", why will the same people and groups that share your idea about the destruction of a human embro, gleefully throw someone in prison for the damage to an Eagles egg?? Priorities in proper perspective here??

If you want to deem personhood to embryos, then are you also for convicting women how have miscarriages as manslaughter?

it's like this ted - that eagle is a protected species. Homo sapiens doesn't NEED protection - in fact we are the root cause of most of the destruction