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Subscribe to RSSNews that Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales is suspected of killing 16 Afghan civilians has sent shock waves through his Washington state neighborhood. NBC's Miguel Almaguer reports.
As Robert Bales, an 11-year military veteran with a string of commendations for good conduct, sat in an isolated cell in the military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., Saturday, divergent pictures emerged of the Army staff sergeant accused of gunning down 16 civilians in an Afghan war zone.
While classmates and neighbors from his younger years remembered him as a happy-go-lucky football player who loved military history and watched out for troublemakers in the neighborhood, emerging records and interviews about his past decade reveal financial troubles and brushes with the law. A blog written by his wife suggests the emotional and financial stress they faced as a military family.
Military officials say that after drinking on a southern Afghanistan base, Bales, 38, crept away in the night on March 11 to two slumbering villages, shooting his victims and setting many of them on fire. Nine of the 16 killed were children and 11 belonged to one family.
Bales hasn't been charged yet in the shootings, which have endangered complicated relations between the United States and Afghanistan and threatened to upend U.S. policy over the decade-old war.
Court records and interviews show that Bales, 38, had joined the Army after a Florida investment job went sour, had a Seattle-area home condemned, struggled to make payments on another and failed to get a promotion or a transfer a year ago, according to a report by The Associated Press.
His legal troubles included charges that he assaulted a girlfriend and, in a hit-and run accident, ran bleeding in military clothes into the woods, court records show, the report said, citing legal records.
Months before the Afghanistan incident, Bales was eyeing a way out of his job at a Washington state military base, records and interviews showed.
His wife, Karilyn, hinted at the family’s troubles on multiple blogs with names like The Bales Family Adventures and BabyBales, the AP and the Times reported. She wrote about the daily life of a military wife, raising children alone, going through a 2006 pregnancy without her husband present, the “bad dreams” she woke from after a nap on the day he left in 2009.
In March 2011, she wrote that her husband had not received a promotion to E-7, sergeant first class – a major disappointment, she said, "after all of the work Bob has done and all the sacrifices he has made for his love of his country, family and friends," according to a report by The New York Times. The Times said that appeared to be the last blog post.
Read more about Karilyn Bales' blog posts at The New York Times
She hoped that the Army might allow the family some autonomy in choosing its next location, after Joint Base Lewis
McChord in Washington state, the Times said. She listed her top choices as Germany ("best adventure
opportunity!"); Italy ("2nd best adventure opp"); Hawaii ("nuff said"); Kentucky ("we would at least be close to Bob’s family"); and Georgia ("to be a sniper teacher, not because it is a fun place to live").
Instead the Army redeployed his unit — the 3rd Stryker Brigade, named after armored Stryker vehicles — to Afghanistan.
Anthony Bolante / Reuters
This home near Lake Tapps in Washington state is owned by U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales.
It was Bales' fourth tour in a war zone since joining up after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States in 2001. He had spent three years in Iraq during three separate assignments.
Bales always loved the military and war history, even as a teenager, said Steve Berling, a high school classmate in his hometown of Norwood, Ohio, the AP reported.
"It's our Bobby. He was the local hero," said Michael Blevins, who grew up down the street from Bales in Norwood.
They said Bales, the youngest of five boys, respected older residents, admonished troublemakers and loved children, even helping another boy in the area who had special needs.
Bales' golden boy image was not untarnished, however. The AP reported that Bales studied business for three years at Ohio State but did not graduate, then handled investments before a market downturn pushed him out of the business.
Florida records show that Bales was a director at an inactive company called Spartina Investments Inc. in Doral, Fla.; his brother, Mark Bales, and a Mark Edwards were also listed as directors.
"I guess he didn't like it when people lost money," Berling told the AP.
He was struggling to keep payments on his own home near Lake Tapps, a reservoir about 35 miles south of Seattle; his wife asked to put the house on the market three days before the shootings, real estate Philip Rodocker said, according to AP.
Bales and his wife bought the Lake Tapps home in 2005 for $280,000; it was listed this week at $229,000, AP reported, citing records.
The house was not officially put on the market until Monday; on Tuesday, Rodocker said, Bales' wife called and asked to take the house off the market, talking of a family emergency.
The AP reported that Bales and his wife also own a home in Auburn, about 10 miles north, according to county records, but abandoned it about two years ago.
"It was ramshackled," homeowners’ association president Bob Baggett told the AP. "They were not dependable. When they left there were vehicles parts left on the front yard ... we'd given up on the owners."
In Washington state, court records showed a 2002 arrest for assault on a girlfriend. Bales pleaded not guilty and was required to undergo 20 hours of anger management counseling, after which the case was dismissed.
A separate hit-and-run charge was dismissed in municipal court in Sumner, Wash., three years ago, according to records. It isn't clear from court documents what Bales hit; witnesses saw a man in a military-style uniform, with a shaved head and bleeding, running away.
When deputies found him in the woods, Bales told them he fell asleep at the wheel. He paid about $1,000 in fines and restitution and the case was dismissed in October 2009.
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Soldiers not guilty
bush, obama and the rest of the US politicians - Guilty !!!
For once I agree, I just wished some of this was found out BEFORE 16 people got shot. We will never know about the adults, but children?
The Afghans are not innocent either. It might be okay in their culture, to murder someone over descecrating a holy book, but it is not the American way, nor the Christian way, to do so. (I also seriously doubt it is the way of True Islam, either...)
I would presonally forgive the Staff Sergeant, but I still believe he must face the consequences for his actions - and I also believe he knows that.
Two wrongs do not make it right, nor do three or more... Peace...
This war might be another Vietnam. Soldiers are going to break down from 4 deployments in 4 years in a war zone. He broke down and wanted a way out clearly. He looks tired in those pictures.
Hello folks, unfortunately we have put too many soldiers out on the front lines for to long. These guys probably feel like they are going through one revolving door after another to the next deployment or war. I'm not condoning what he did but it seems that old men start wars and young men fight and die in them.
Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare.
Killing and maiming another human being is not our innate nature. In my estimation, this soldier snapped just as most other soldiers do just not as overtly as Mr. Bales did. Why do you think Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is such a common malady amongst our soldiers who are put in a war situation? Our government sticks them in an unnatural situation, brainwashes them and our military order and force them to perform unnatural acts. Our government takes advantage of their youth and naiveté. It’s surprising that this doesn’t occur more often. When will we learn that war should be the very last option and only used in self defense not to further the agenda of the Oil, Banking, and Corporate cartels.
Your comments are correct and need to be said and rememberred by all. This rather lenghty article by MSNBC/usnews certainly rings of a PR smear tactic based on background information taken out of context by our all knowing news people, with the gov't supplied info. This man (assuming he did as we are hearing) acted on stresses the military refused to acknowledge since they apparently had the info before his last deployment that put him in this location/position. I am ex-military from Nam era and I was a 3 striper and have to call out the wifes comments as well, the fact he was not promoted in all likelyhood was due to his mental attitude of still being in service and being redeployed so much. I had to be able to pass testing, reveue panels, and meet assrt'd other requirements just to have oppertunity to be considered for promotions; I then had to beat out the others taking same path to the promotion to get awarded the stepup in rank(I believe he would have had to do same and most have come up short). The facts remain that if you are entering the military to get away from finacial and social pressures of your life YOU ARE BARKING UP WRONG TREE!
Blame Obama? Why? He didn't get us into this mess! The Bush/Cheney gang got us into this mess, and Obama was elected to clean up their screw up! None of us (except the Bush/Cheney gang) knew how truly bad the situation was - with the wars, the economy, and everything else that B/C f'ed up! Stop blaming Obama for the mess that B/C got us into.
Now, as for the fact that this soldier was on his 4th deployment - it doesn't surprise me that he cracked. But there had to have been indications that there were problems, and they either went ignored or he was good at hiding them. Whatever the reason, 16 innocent Afghans are dead. That's the only thing we know for sure.
As the wife of a now retired Army soldier, I am appalled by the comments made by Bales' wife. You don't always get promoted - welcome to the world. And for her to suggest that they should get autonomy in choosing their next assignment is just an outright slap in the face of all of us who have gone from assignment to assignment without complaint. Welcome to the real military, Mrs. Bales.
In addition, Ms. Bales doesn't reflect the strength that most military wives have. Yes, we take care of our kids 85% of the time when our husbands are around - 100% if our husbands are deployed. It's military first and family second! When our husbands are gone, we help each other....lean on each other....and support each other.
This family was in financial debt up to their ying-yangs! I know what a soldier of this rank makes, and they couldn't afford the lifestyle they were living.
This incident has placed every other soldier serving in Afghanistan at higher risk. It has cost the life of 16 innocent civilians. Did this soldier crack under the pressure - probably. But this is a man who bounced from one problem to another, was arrested, and did some pretty dumb things. If he thought the Army would be an easier and simpler life, then he was really dumb!
There is no excuse the guy is a flat out cold blooded murder and deserves the needle and an eternity in hell.
I have never done 4 tours of duty in a war zone, I might be bat crap crazy if I had. I think what he did is horrible but I would not judge him until I have walked in his shoes. It is way past time to get the hell out of the Middle East.
Everyone seems to conveniently forget the eye popping, cacophony of "outrage" expressed by republican politicians, t partiers, and the folks on FOX news when Obama dared to declare a timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan. Now he is being blamed for having troops there? What hypocricy.
Tell the whole story vs101 or zip it!
Hilarious how the Dems & Repubs blame each other for Afghanistan as though they aren't BOTH responsible. Pretty pathetic. Bin Laden has been DOA for almost a year now, so tell me, why are we still there again? Does it really matter if we hand the keys back to the Taliban now, or 18 months from now?
And what MSNBC, no big NEWS item about KONY 2012 and Jason Russell? Nothing like some good ol' fashioned war mongering in Uganda. Best ignore it and hope the sheeple don't start asking questions about your coverage or the names lurking behind Invisible Children.
This guy needs a needle and anybody who supports him needs a mental checkup.
To professor 54 (post# 1.6) & PJ-1795048 (Post # 1.11 ):
To quote you:
Just how many days have you fought in the war zone protecting our Country?" None, I would suspect, and yet you cast the stones so easily as if to be so perfect. Until you know what it is like to have P.T.S., wounded severely in a war, or are an educated expert with the knowledge of how to deal with such a situation, then I suggest that you might not be so quick and so damningly judgmental. I can just imagine your reaction if you had been drafted into service to head directly overseas while leaving your family behind. Those soldiers have been fighting in a nasty war for a very long time protecting your big judgmental mouth. Furthermore, it is up to God to decide this soldier's final fate on his "Day of Judgement". Your kind of attitude is what starts fights to begin with, as-well-as the Government's willingness to enter knowingly useless wars. I feel strongly that any politician in Congress, etc., first serve some active duty time in the military before serving as a politician in D.C. reaping far more benefits than the soldiers. The U.S. cannot continue acting as the "World Police Dog" at the expense of our young people, and esp. with wages that are below the National Poverty Level". Much closer and faster treatment should be made available to all the soldiers in these war zones with never more than 2 tours of duty in such an area. And those two tours should never be consecutive, either.
.
Of effing course not. They slaughter their own all day long. Which is fine with me, b.t.w. Heck, those gomers got more upset from the Koran burning than this killing of sixteen of their own.
Think about it - in some strange way, Sargent Bales may have done us all a big favor here - by bringing the anger Americans have at this war and it's futility to the forefront. Maybe the 'tards in Washington will finally get it. This killing incident just may be the catalyst those dopes need to bring our troops home, once and for all.
Trust Verify, keep fighting the good fight. Excellent post.
I hope Sargent Bales gets the help he needs and that his family find peace.
Independent "Thinker" how can you possibly be defending this soldier? There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever. Period.
Independent Thinker....while thinking about words to respond to PROFESSOR....I sumble on your post it is the greatest of all....PROFESSOR can profess, due to the stress of our soldiers are going through due to their lack of sleep and constant worries about who follows them ....and if they will see their family again ....
PROFESSOR....you need a needle for your selfish thinking ,Walk in our soldiers shoes and than you opened your mouth ........Cannot hep it.
I hope you are n't a professor ....If you are .... GOOD REASON to home school our children........
What a BS attem at at a smear job. No one...NOT one of you, knows what happened over there. That province is a Taliban controlled stronghold. You go into villages there and all you see is kids and old men. No men between 16-35.... hmmm, where could they be? They are fighting our guys. These villages are either backing Taliban by choice or by force. Just because they are young, doesn't mean they can't plant an IED or pull a trigger. For all those that want to compare this to Vietnam... you might want to do some reading or talk to those thta have been there. They used babies with bombs attached to them and would send them into groups of soldiers. Young kids have been some of the most dangerous combatants in many conflicts. Those Taliban goat humpers have killed girls just for attending school over there. Not condoning what happpend or may have happened, but it sounds like these villages were backing these guys and after seeing his buddies leg blown off from a bomb that they planted....well, he probably had enough and snapped. BUt again, NONE of us know what really happned.
People quit kissing a cold blooded murderers ass just because he joined the military. Regardless of why or who put him in Afghanistan. (remember there is no draft, he put himself there) He is still guilty of killing innocent people.
There are thousands and thousands of soldiers who have been in the same situation and have never committed such an act. You are diminishing the real value of an American soldier by defending this man.
Sounds like a spoiled brat who couldn't accept the consequences of his decisions and actions. Give him the needle, ole' sparky or hand him over to the Afghans.
He was there to fight terrorists and Taliban, not innocent children in their sleep. Hell has a real warm spot waiting for this a**hole monster.
I was a Ranger in VietNam for two full tours w/ a purp. heart, bronze star, & a few others. A Grunt in one tour w/the 101st ABN, Ranger in the 2nd w/173rd ABN.
Once, two of our teams linked up outside of a village. There were 13 of us altogether about to be extracted at 10:05AM. The village was empty, which was creepy and we knew it. At 10:00 we were ambushed. 9 wounded, 2 dead out of 13. The gunships above took out the VC. While we were securing the LZ, an 11 or 12 year old Vietnamese kid came out of hiding with his water buffalo. I aimed my M60 machine gun at him and wanted to open up because I knew that he knew we were about to be ambushed....but just hid rather than tell us. As a result, two of my friends were in body bags now. I hated that kid....at least for a few seconds.
But instead of opening up on him, I just told him to "diddi maow!" ("get lost!).....because he was a civilian, and at 19 years old, I understood that even though my friends were in bloody parts now, this was just a scared civilian.
Civilians are in the middle of a war and are just trying to survive. What I almost did to that 12-year old would have been an atrocity. What this Sgt. did to these 16 civilians was inexcusable, an atrocity, and a war crime. It would have been bad enough for him to kill 16 adult male civilians....but to murder women and children? that is worse than horrible!
And then there are some on this post who say not to judge him? YOU'RE ALL TWISTED! Who cares about his difficulties and his failures? We all have problems to deal with. Enough with the excuses!!! This man has dishonored the U.S. Army, is a dis-credit to his unit, a murderer, and a war criminal. It probably took merely minutes for him to end the lifes of 16 innocent human beings. He needs to be judged and sentenced just as switftly.
Bush and Obama guilty? How ignorant!
Al Qaida, the Taliban and Islamofascism are guilty.
We would not be there in the first place unless we were protecting civilians, passenger aircraft, monumental architecture, etc... The impetus to go to war was not greed for the resources of Afghanistan, it was because the Islamofascist terror organizations were training openly and freely on Afghanistan territory. To further prove complicity, the Taliban refused to extradite Osama after 911. In fact I feel certain that the assumption was, that they had defeated one superpower, (USSR), now draw in #2. After all, the "rightly guided" Caliphs had, against all odds, defeated the Byzantine empire, and the Persian empire in a single generation 1400 years ago. Osama saw victory in the outcome as an elevation to Calliph above the fragments of the embers. Didn't work out.
Now it is down to a nasty dirty little war where the Americans and NATO are expected to play by rles, but the Taliban insurgents live and thrive amongst the civilians, then make ambushes from civilian locations. Why does an American getting his leg blown off is an ambush have any less press significance than a Seargent snapping and killing civilians. Have we grown inured to the dangers faced by those who protect us?
It is explicite in both the Koran and Hadith that it is acceptable to kill, or plunder unbelievers with moral impuniity. Americans and NATO have no such doctrine, and are thus left as target practice for the Taliban. If the Afghan people had opened their arms to the Americans and changed their outlook, Americans have been generous in helping after conflicts, but that didn't happen. The people of Afghanistan are monolithic and could never submit to the authority of the infidel.
And so the tensions rose to a boiling point, a soldier snapped, a family died, and another lost their father in a world of cold cruelty.
The only solution to this war is for the nations of Islam to pick up the pieces of Afghanistan and control their jihadists. It is the reputation of Islam that is now in question and it is time for America to leave a place that they cannot control, and the Ummah Al Islam to fill the vacuum and fix it.
I am still proud to call him an american soldier. Look.....these families are in a war zone. These kids would have grown up to be like most of the families. Haters of americans..murderers. ITs sad yes. But its war. I have ZERO sympathy for the people that got killed. ZERO! We all knew this @!$%# was going to happen..or at least expect it to happen. Soldiers get @!$%#ed up in the head! When they come home they act like they are god. Makes me want to slap the @!$%# out of some of them. But the service and war does that. War is no good....I have been saying it for so long, everyone is tiring of me saying it but its true. No one like to hear the truth. And bty the guy makes a valid point...if they were no war....this family would still be alive. Seems pretty simple to me.
BINGO kthor BINGO! This guy snaps,kills innocent people and the War Criminals get away with Bloody murder!
This man is a PAWN in this MANUFACTURED WAR.He's a Victim, of the fall out that war does to people.He finally went over the edge.He didn't want to be in Afghanistan.He did 4 tours.Three tours in Iraq, and one in Afghanistan.He even said he didn't want to GO!He was apprehensive! Plus the fact all you people yelling for his HIDE,HE HAD A TRAMATIC BRAIN INJURY!Which end of SERIOUS INJURY, don't you lynch mob people GET?
Now what ASS Hole sends a man into a War Zone with a Traumatic Brain Injury?Screw his financial situation,screw the fact he was in the Army and he had to supposedly obey orders.This man,WAS SHOT TO HELL AND A WALKING TIME BOMB,emotionally and physically right from the GET GO!
You don't send people into a War Zone in that condition.Because if this is the trend now a days,then your military is DESPERATE and full of a BUNCH OF BLUNDERING IDIOTS AND LOSERS WHO ARE IN CHARGE!
Innocent people died,he killed them in a Crazed Mental State,and yes he's guilty of Murder,however you can blame him all you want, but while you're at it,you better pass the blame around, to the ARMY, the IDIOT who signed those orders,Bush, Obama, and the rest of these POLITICAL ASS HOLES,involved with manufacturing and continuing this Insane War!
THEY'RE ALL GUILTY!
There is no excuse for cold blooded murder. He snuck away in the middle of the night to do something he knew was wrong. Perhaps it is PTSD? Circumstances? Conditioning?
If you are going to make excuses for him, then you need to also excuse eveyone else who murders, because they all have "extenuating circumstances". Mommy did crack, daddy beat me, I have a drinking problem, I was bullied as a child, I lost my home, I was raised by nasty bigots, etc.
If this soldier came home and killed NINE children in the USA most of you would be screaming for his head. I don't care where they were from or where it was done, it was wrong and disgusting and I have no sympathy for their murderer.
if your politicians didnt have al qaida , iraq iran obl , 9-11, they would generate another "flag" to steal from you, kill YOUR kids, THEIR kids, war is hell, don't like it, but its a part of life, not going away, matter of fact , why don't you people find out why they REALLY want 30K drones in THIS country. while your at it find out why they are REALLY in afghanistan. . . . . wtfu people, stop blaming the "other" party and realize its the same turd , different pile
The price of war, no winners for those in theater, huge profits for the financiers. Our military, lied to by politicians and used by private corporations. Lobbying. Ah, the American way. Do not take part in this. You do have a choice. Walk away. Life is way too precious to spend one minute contemplating the death of another at your hands. There is neither honor nor dignity in killing or dying.
I feel sorry for our soldiers being used for political economic reasons and not for defending Country and American Freedom.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=217166281637605
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62565
Google TAPI and look at the map, deaths, war activities, etc. and come to your own conclusions.
etc, etc. Worth the blood of our sons and daughters.... I think not.
You might even be able to understand the Iran conflict with Israel a little better once informed.
why exactly is it an 'atrocity' to murder women and children over men? Murdering men is also an atrocity!
Jon your comment is absolutely disgusting and atrocious and offensive to me, who is a daughter and companion and relative of many civilians who have been victims of war. it is not their choice. they are innocent people trying to live their lives in peace. you certainly would not be saying the same thing had these been 16 American civilians. Wow. I don't even know what to say.
I was moving my mouse to report your comment, when I accidentally "voted" for it. Just wanted to let you know you don't deserve that one "vote" you got. You are a horrible person.
"blundering idiots and losers in charge".. Indeed, from the top down the leadership of our Armed Forces are in a mess which they are not prepared to fix. I am a recent retiree of the Army, and I have seen the steady decline in the quality of leaders in the Army first-hand. While I'd love to say it all started with Bill's "I did not have sex with that woman", I can only say that is about the time I started to notice the decline. Probably unrelated, but it sounds funny.
Truthfully though, the Army has failed to cultivate competent, effective, and responsible leaders for quite some time now. Chief among the many causes are early promotions. When I was coming up you had to put in your time, excel at everything you did, have a wealth of knowledge in your field, and actually demonstrate the principles of leadership in action. Man, did that ever change. The Army started promoting younger, less-experienced, and less-capable troops as a retention tool. Biggest. Mistake. Ever. Plenty intelligent, hard-working, and fully capable leaders saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship. Of course there were enough stalwarts to get by for a few more years but, as the "Old Guard" leaders retired, the younger, less-experienced moved in. Today, the "O.G." leaders are really just the lackluster half-ass results of the Army's failures of the last fifteen years. Now pile on the physical and mental stresses of a protracted war on a faceless enemy, and all those gems you thought you had turn out to be poorly-polished turds. It's a sad state of affairs, and it won't be long before it's McHale's Navy.
Some might say it already is. ;^)
I've faced financial trouble and have yet to kill anyone because of it.
Hoosier Jim~ I think most of us have faced financial trouble...been over in the Hell that is the current Combat Zone yet? No? Then hold your breath for a while. Like a week.
Yeah Hoosier, but I bet you never served in a combat zone.
Exactly right. Sounds like a big bag of irrelevant excuse for his abominable behavior.
Yeah, Hoosier, your overdue credit card bills are right up there with four combat deployments in the stress department......
I'd like to know too, what does his finances have to do with kiling women and children civilians? From PTSD, to being passed up for promotion, to finances. All types of excuses coming out.
Me, I made money in combat zones. It's called tax-free, and combat pay!!!!
No, just a witch hunt by the media.....
I'll actually defend Hoosier here. I have been in both battle environments and have felt the sting of financial strain... But i still don't run around violating rules of engagement or killing inoccent people. This is just a case where a man snapped; it is unfortunate and very well could be the result of PTSD.
I also find it amazing how MSNBC focuses on how their request for transfer and promotion were denied. Firstly, you serve the needs of your military service - not the other way around. Just becuase you want to go to a different location doesn't mean that you get it. Similarly, members get passed over for promotion regularly. In any given promotion cycle, greater than 40% of eligible promotees get passed over for promotion.
Secondly, this is the wife's blog, not the husband's. The thoughts are her own and don't necessarily reflect the husband's (who is gone and regularly out of contact with his family - been there, done that). It's up to the spouse left behind to keep the family unit together. That also includes accepting the lifestyle of the modern military. Some wives are stronger than others...
C'mon Pepster.If they weren't reporting on it they'd be accused of trying to cover it up.
I think they are covering up something. Be very very careful..........
I too have financial difficulties..how's killing 16 asleep innocent people ...all family gonna make it better?If his finances were so bad , he shoulda had good life ins, and just got himself killed...but he's a coward !
he snapped ! he has kids too ! wtf
this was premeditated slaughter of innocent people....is this who we have become as a notion ? is this the new America ?
charges:16 countss of premeditated murder...seeking death penalty...its that simple.
First paragraph tells us he joined for the Pay Check and Bennies, then it rambles on and on about excuses for wackin and burning children.It also states that he had a string of good conduct medals.He's in 11 yrs in which he could only have eligable for 2.Then we are told about a hit and run that he was in and beating of gf.WHO writes this @!$%#???
Came back from Nam and went to school on the 150$ a month GI bill.Dropped out,it was impossible not to go into debt.Did not take out a student loan because it was a debt for life.
Terrible reporting and absolutely Terrible piece of writing!
YEAH JIM...you also do three tours in Iraq, sustain a serious head injury and get cleared to return to combat duty in Afghanistan, all while your wife tried to hold your life together at home alone worrying about your ass!
If you ain't been there, you've got no idea what it's like! You bloody civilians don't know what the GI's life is about...so don't be so quick to judge...walk a mile in his shoes first!
oldotto..
he chose this a s a career, I couldn't do it...just like i cant be a mortician, or a cop, or a surgeon, or pilot, or etc etc etc
he fely a need to do this !
Totally. For crying out loud people, put yourself in his combat boots. Finance troubles, family trouble, trouble with the law, multiple deployments in war zones. Thats enough to make anybody brutally murder 16 civilians including 11 children in cold blood, am I right?
Tell his financial troubles to the 16 dead afghans. When muslims do it they are evil. When American soldiers do it, they have PTSD and financial troubles - and other than their crimes, they are local heroes.
What part of "the guy was not mentally stable" do you not understand? People that are in their right mind don't kill people. Nobody is making any excuses for the guy, he's mentally ill!
I know of one large family no longer under stress.
They're all @!$%#ing dead because of this @!$%#.
Sorry, I read "drinking on a southern Afghanistan base" I guess it said "being crazy on a southern Afghanistan base"
So let us just forget about the insanity plea, since by your logic every murderer would be innocent by reason of insanity. Like the trained psychologists diagnose him, okay?
Do I have to kill toddlers like he did too?
I think there is alot more to this story than we are being told...... but the fact is 16 people are dead, 12 of them women and children. It doesn't matter if he and his wife had money problems, or if he had an altercation with an ex-girlfriend or if he finished college. I just hope he doesn't get off with an insanity plea. I do not believe in the death penalty, but I think if he is found guilty he should have to stay locked up for the remainder of his life.
America, reaps what we sow!
She wrote about the daily life of a military wife, raising children alone, going through a 2006 pregnancy without her husband present, the “bad dreams” she woke from after a nap on the day he left in 2009
What does it matter? The guy pretty much would be dead 30 times over by those that are so "righteous"in these vines. All of them people that have never been in combat. Yes!he killed 9 children. I realized that. If you want to put him in front of a firing squad, the people who sent him for the 4th time to fight a DUMB UNPROVOKED war should be on his side, getting the same punishment.
Cheney and Bush are playing golf, and they killed thousands of people. I don't see you people screaming for their heads. Stop watching reality programs and focus on the reality that we have right now in our country.
Your righteooous minds then would be on the side of justice, instead of the side of emotion.
Read between the lines. The story tells of a loser who could never stick with anything, had no self-discipline, and acted out under stress.
Dropped out of college.
A string of jobs and business endeavors that he couldn't stick with.
A woman beaten up.
Hiding in the woods all dressed up in his Rambo fantasy clothes after crashing his car.
A home he trashed and then walked away from.
Another house he was about to lose.
When the military tried to make him behave responsibly, he went berserk and murdered helpless women and children. And it's all because he bumped his head and stubbed his toe.
Let the smear campaign begin,They will stop at nothing to try and turn the only Americans that want this mentally disabled American hero solider treated and taken care of. They want more of us to join in with the other Americans calling for his death. The push to blame any American solider for all the problems of these wars continues at a furious pace. Our military personnel have to deal with the enemy, the foreign propaganda,the foreign press,civilians that want to kill them and our own anti-American press not to mention half our own country that treats them like trash.
I am disgraced at the way so many Americans jump on the side of our enemies. Americans killed over burning some books and what do we get, Americans all over these post saying, It is our fault for burning the books! This guy snapped,he has mental problems, he did far more than his share before he broke. He should have at least earned enough respect for us to wait for all the facts to come out before we throw him under the bus.
I guess that depends on how flexible you are.
These facts are already out: this individual got drunk, went on a killing spree, and slaughtered helpless women and children.
If you can find an excuse for that short of complete insanity to the point of needing a straight jacket, your ethics are MUCH more flexible than mine. In fact, flexible to the point of being downright self-serving from my point of view.
Do you really think anyone could "smear" him beyond reporting that he murdered children?
The media is really trying to smear this guy by taking a couple of relatively minor brushes with the law from years ago, taking them out of context, and trying to make it sound like this guy was a major problem. The assault charge was from ten years ago and the result of hat as probably a minor incident with his girlfriend based on the final adjudication. The hit and run was three years ago and sounds like he fell asleep at the wheel and that there was only some minor property damage involved based on the total of $1000 in fines and restitution. There was obviously no one injured, since this would have resulted in felony charges and not have been dismissed with only $1000 in fines and restitution involved. This guy is not some habitual criminal as the article tries to imply. As for the financial difficulties, it is not like this is all that unusual for someone to have financial difficulties these days. Many people in this country are struggling and our military enlisted are not exactly well paid. I do not see this as some personal failing of this soldier and I certainly do not think it had anything to do with what happened, other than maybe contributing a very small amount to the stress he was under. The stress of being away from your family in a combat situation in a country where it is often very difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a harmless civilian and the enemy is far more of a stresser.
I am surprised by some of the wife's comments since they do not reflect the typical attitudes of a military spouse. Perhaps they are also being taken out of context. Either that, or she is just frustrated after seeing her husband deployed to a war zone for a fourth time despite his documented medical problems including a traumatic brain injury (TBI).
It is pretty obvious that this guy just lost it. I find it disturbing that this is yet another soldier from Joint Base Lewis-McChord that has been involved in criminal acts. There is something seriously wrong at that base and with the medical staff that is screening these soldiers for PTSD, TBIs, and other psychological problems. I do not know whether it is an incompetent medical staff and clueless command structure or if the medical staff is being pressured by the command not to make the diagnoses. All I know is that they are apparently clearing quite a few soldiers for additional combat deployments who may not be fit. In either case, the leadership at that base and the medical staff need to be cleaned out and replaced with some competent people willing to do their jobs properly.
Unfortunately, I think that politics will come into play and this soldier will not be allowed to present a defense of temporary insanity or diminished mental capacity. Anything short of a death sentence will cause too many problems for the administration. There have already been statements made that they are planning on seeking the death penalty in this case. This is being done to appease the Afghani government and people. I feel that this is one case where the outcome of the court martial is a foregone conclusion. Despite strict regulations to try and prevent it, I think that there is going to be considerable undue command influence all the way from the Commander in Chief on down to find this staff sergeant guilty and sentence him to death. I am in no way defending what this soldier did, I am just very concerned that he is not going to receive a fair trial. There are medical records showing that he suffered a TBI in a vehicle accident but the medical staff at Lewis-McChord is already circling the wagons saying there was no permanent injury and that he was fine and fit to be deployed. Having had experience dealing with someone who was close to me who suffered a TBI, I can tell you that they can appear fine in some situations, with the problems only coming out under certain conditions, particularly when under stress. I am not a doctor and have not seen this soldier's medical records, I just hope that he gets a fair trial and that incompetent doctors trying to cover their asses do not help railroad this guy into a lethal injection. If he was competent and truly fit for duty, then he does deserve the death penalty for what he did. I just want to see him get a fair trial.
Read between the lines. The story tells of a loser who could never stick with anything, had no self-discipline, and acted out under stress.
If that is the case, then the Government is even more guilty for giving a weapon to a person with that character.
Let's bring backd the DRAFT, and start recruiting people with common sense just like you.
Sgt. and Mrs. Bales sound like a couple of really superficial, self-centered people who expect to enjoy things they haven't earned. He doesn't finish college, but thinks he's qualified to handle other people's money. His friend says, "he didn't like it when people lose money" as if he's just some compassionate bystander who had nothing to do with his business failure. Phony!!! He fails that so he joins the military - not because he loves his country but because it's a secure job. They buy one house, destroy it (wtf!?!?), then buy a $280,000 home on a sergeant's salary. And then they have trouble making payments on that one. Wow, do ya think?! Again, the cause and effect of earning something seem to be lost on them. His wife complains because he doesn't get a promotion he 'really wanted.' Boo hoo. Sounds like the real world to me. She has not one, but two, blogs about herself and her family - nothing is as interesting as that. She wants the plum assignments - Germany, Italy, Hawaii - and is again disappointed because the army sends them where they need him. pfft, stupid army... as if there's a war on or something. Hello, Mrs. Bales, who doesn't want a promotion, a raise and a big house in a beautiful locale??? All of this is the tail wagging the dog, it's all me, me, me and I want, I want, living life for the rewards rather than living a life of purpose. Genuine, honest people earn nice things along the way and when they do, they appreciate it, they express gratitude, they take care of it and they think about other people and the real purpose of living. These people don't seem to get that. From my perspective, there's just no substance to them. So I don't have much compassion for him (or for her) when he shoots a bunch of little kids. I suppose he 'doesn't like it when other people lose their lives'.
He fails that so he joins the military - not because he loves his country but because it's a secure job. They buy one house, destroy it (wtf!?!?), then buy a $280,000 home on a sergeant's salary. And then they have trouble making payments on that one. Wow, do ya think?! Again, the cause and effect of earning something seem to be lost on them. His wife complains because he doesn't get a promotion he 'really wanted.' Boo hoo. Sounds like the real world to me.
Actually...IT IS THE REAL WORlD Most Americans without a home lost it because the bank too over. They thought that they could afford a house like a movie star with a salary of a peon. I don't see how it makes this soldier a criminal just for those reasons.
Again, don't let loosers get on the way of "defending you" against imaginary terror attacks.
BRING THE DRAFT, and all those of you, intelligent people, will send your sons and daughters, that have college degrees and are waiting in line for the i-pod, to fight the war instead.
STOP WRITING BS OTHERWISE
Irespond --
If it comes to that, yes, the government ought to test people and check their backgrounds before admitting them to the military. There are consequences for taking the dregs of society. The days when misfits and criminals were sent to join the "foreign legion" are over.
As for drafting me, no one--not you with your smart-alec remarks, and not the government--will EVER force me to murder anyone. If you think it's a good idea to slaughter babies because some alcoholic moron told you to, that just speaks to who YOU are. But I would just say NO!
I really find it unbelievable and repugnant that I actually see people saying that this is the government's fault. I am not saying that the gov't doesn't do terrible things and then try to hide them. Unless there is something HUGE they aren't telling us, one soldier did something that, had the victems been Americans, you would be all over him like a pack of hungry wolves. And speaking of that, what is with the people hinting already that there is a conspiracy when they simply do not have enough information for even the most paranoid among us conclude such a thing. You see? You're already doing it. Your beginning to imagine some nefarious scenario in your paranoid mind then later, as more information comes out, you are going to force those little puzzle pieces to fit where you want them to go.
Its not that the government is not above doing dasterdly things, its just that there is no reason to place the blame on them. If you are are saying they shouldn't have let this one slip through, you are only right uo to a point. This guy gave them no real reason to think he was a risk up to the moment it happened.
And IRespond I am for one thing too old for the draft and I have already served. If the guy did it, it is hisfault not anyone else's.
As for drafting me, no one--not you with your smart-alec remarks, and not the government--will EVER force me to murder anyone. If you think it's a good idea to slaughter babies because some alcoholic moron told you to, that just speaks to who YOU are. But I would just say NO!
I might be a smart-alec, but you are proving my point NO ONE WANTS TO GO AND FIGHT THOSE WARS, BUT YOU PEOPLE WANT TO KEEP THEM GOING. keep writing, you are just helping my case.
In war, you GET ORDERS you do not get to chose who your murder
And IRespond I am for one thing too old for the draft and I have already served. If the guy did it, it is hisfault not anyone else's.
And here is another example of how ignorant people are about drafting. Stop writing ignorant comments and READ what drafting is about
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/a/draftprocess.htm
WOW-- so many flamers on this thread it's disgusting.
People, when will you learn not to feed the trolls?
He should have at least earned enough respect for us to wait for all the facts to come out before we throw him under the bus.
No,It depends if you believe in innocent until proven guilty.
that's the allegation not the facts.
They could have said you did it,
Does that make it true?
Ummmmmmm, sir........meaning no disrespect to you and your service but not really much caring how you take it: YES, it IS the fault of the government here. Of COURSE it's the government's fault that situations like this are happening. Who the f*ck do you THINK got us into these wars, the Partridge Family?? The BRADY BUNCH?????
This killing of those Afghans is a SYMPTOM of a much BIGGER problem the U.S. has here in it's foreign policy. Bomb occupy and invade. Bomb occupy and invade some more. Well, guess what, Dick Tracy??? IT'S NOT WORKING!!!!!
We've been fighting these primitive goons for over ten years with nothing to show for it. This Sargent has had four tours. He DID NOT want to go to Afghanistan. They sent him anyway. Seems to me like SOMEONE high up in the chain of command dropped the ball here. They FAILED him, along with the REST OF OUR TROOPS over there. The ultimate blame lies with those getting us into these wars, and those running these foo foo politically correct conflicts for profit. End of story.
The U.S. has a *voluntary* military. Guess govt. mercenary isn't turning out to be the fun, plum job a lot of these young guys thought. Can't hack it, don't rush to sign up and get that federal employee paycheck with bennies from taxpayers. Instead, grow up, go to college, be responsible; don't marry, have kids and buy houses you can't afford or take care of. A military exists for one reason: killing people in another country. The world needs fewer warriors, not more and certainly more like this spineless man-boy. Murder and burning bodies of innocent women and 2-year-olds? That's not stress, that's hatred, misogyny, and a few other testosterone laced pathologies. Now every American in a war zone - or just in a foreign country - is less safe. His worthless butt will sit in prison for 50 years and taxpayers will still be supporting his family ... forever.
irespond--
Duh. "They" didn't say he did it. HE said he did it. Does that make it true? Well, 99% probability, yes.
Sounds like a spoiled brat loser who couldn't accept the consequences of his decisions and actions. Give him the needle, ole' sparky or hand him over to the Afghans.
He was there to fight terrorists and Taliban, not innocent children in their sleep. Hell has a real warm spot waiting for this a**hole coward monster.
(I'm re-posting this because the thread I originally posted it on was collapsed.)
I was a Ranger in VietNam for two full tours w/ a purp. heart, bronze star, & a few others. A Grunt in one tour w/the 101st ABN, Ranger in the 2nd w/173rd ABN.
Once, two of our teams linked up outside of a village. There were 13 of us altogether about to be extracted at 10:05AM. The village was empty, which was creepy and we knew it. At about 10:00AM we were ambushed. 9 wounded, 2 dead out of 13. The gunships above took out the VC. While we were securing the LZ, an 11 or 12 year old Vietnamese kid came out of hiding with his water buffalo. I aimed my M60 machine gun at him and wanted to open up because I knew that he knew we were about to be ambushed....but just hid rather than tell us. As a result, two of my friends were in body bags now. I hated that kid....at least for a few seconds.
But instead of opening up on him, I just told him to "diddi maow!" ("get lost!).....because he was a civilian, and at 19 years old, I understood that even though my friends were in bloody parts now, this was just a scared civilian. And I did not come from the greatest upbringing. I was raised in the ghetto of Jordan Down projects in Watts, Los Angeles where gangs and survival were the order of the day. It doesn't require a great upbringing to realize that you don't murder children!!!
Civilians are in the middle of a war and are just trying to survive. What I almost did to that 12-year old would have been an atrocity. What this Sgt. did to these 16 civilians was inexcusable, an atrocity, and a war crime. It would have been bad enough for him to kill 16 adult male civilians....but to murder women and children? that is worse than horrible!
And then there are some on this post who say not to judge him? YOU'RE ALL TWISTED! Who cares about his difficulties and his failures? We all have problems to deal with. Enough with the excuses!!! This man has dishonored the U.S. Army, is a dis-credit to his unit, a murderer, and a war criminal. It probably took merely minutes for him to end the lives of 16 innocent human beings. He needs to be judged and sentenced just as switftly.
How about we let a judge and jury decide this, and keep the blasted politics out of it. You know both sides of the poilitical spectrum are going to go after this guy, because he's commited, (claimed,) some atrocity against (claimed again,) innocent people. Noone, including the politicians and media, know just what happened.
Just because it's in the news does NOT mean it's true. The media are in such a rush to get the "advertising money," they will create an atmosphere to suit their agenda, whatever it may be. And the politicians played it to the hilt.
You have no idea what he said,you only know what the media has said.Duh.
Hottickets: Your logic allows everyone in any war to do as they want whenever they want to whomever they want.....because it's not their fault. It's the fault of the government who sent them there. That is the kind of logic that did not hold up at Nuremburg. Your logic, however, is indicative of the fact that we live in a society where we simply look for someone else to blame instead of taking responsibility ourselves. And of course, the government is an easy target. We are an entitlement society where we deserve the best, shouldn't have to work for it, and shouldn't have to take responsibilty for anything we might do wrong.
Once you remove individual responsibility, you invite universal atrocities. You said that this sgt. "didn't want to go to war...". No one in their right mind wants to go to war. Should we only allow those who WANT to go to war go? Perhaps we should also only allow those who FEEL like going out on patrol go out on patrol.
Frosty: Your point is a very good one. The only reason I am assuming the Sgt. is guilty is because he reportedly admitted it to those to whom he gave himself up.
So what ever happened to the Afghan civilians that murdered the Americans over some burnt books?
Never mind, I remember now.
True, some of these people here haven't been in a combat zone, but how many people have been in combat zones and have yet to walk into a civilian family's house and kill them? It would be like defending Nazis by asking, "Well, did you ever live in Germany during that time? If not, then don't talk."
I felt a great need to say something about this event. I have
seen the hype and drama being reported on this event. First off I will say I am
saddened by any loss of life no matter what the cause. But I am deeply saddened
by some of the things being said. As combat veteran and as a father of a combat
veteran. Who watched he son do multiple tours then be wounded and retired from
the service due to his wounds. Please people can you wait to see the facts? You
are talking about a man like many of us who walked away from his own life to
serve his country. As it has been already shown he was wounded but still
returned. What most of your readers miss is as a sergeant you are a leader and
you have the lives of your men to care for. I know all too well the stress this
adds on top of the already huge level of being in combat in the first place. As
a leader I had to deal with it as did my son. Then to watch your men get
wounded or even die leaves huge scars on us. I am not going to debate PTSD or
TBI or the events that happened. But for you all that are so dam fast to jump
on the hang him out to dry wagon. I will ask this if you have never served, had
a love one serve. Or god forbid, been one who lost a love one serving his or her country. Give the facts a chance to come out first. After all veterans fought for the rights most of you take for
granted. but make no mis steps here with what i say i do not say he was right or wrong i just ask that you please let the facts speak first.
ron: the murder of the American soldiers because of the burning of some already defaced books with communications between prisoners was pure and atrocious evil. Of course, those people can call us devils and degrade Christianity and Judahism and we're supposed to just take it with no recourse. The NVA in VietNam were an honorable enemy....but there is nothing honorable about the enemy we have in the middle east. Except for Israel, the entire mid east is made up of barbarians. And this Sgt who massacred 16 civilians, if he is indeed guilty, is no better.
As far as I'm concerned, let's okay the pipeline to Canada, explore for oil in the Artic, open up drilling facilities here in U.S., become oil independent of OPEC, and continue alternative energies, such as solar, so we can leave the mideast altogether. I wonder how rich the OPEC countries would be without the US as a major customer!!!
I DID NOT say that Hal.....
Ha! Again, I'm too old. If it came down to drafting fellas my age, all would be lost anyway. Besides, former active duty guys are usually recalled long before a draft like they did in 2004. Still, I would not be chosen. But you know what? If they did, I would go without a fuss. As crazy as it would be to send an old guy like me out to do battle. Because I have already been there and I took an oath. And because those younger men and women out there are still my brothers and sisters.
I inform you I have served so that you may know I am not one to avoid service to my country and that I did it voluntarily. This should also serve to inform that I am not ignorant of military culture, military justice or things like the topic of that about.com link you provided. I, at least, would have given the suitable link from sss.gov instead. Why not go directly to the source?
I assume you are a veteran too?
HoosierJim,it was a HELL of a lot more than just money troubles!
What an idiotic way to go at a story--trying to connect the dots this way? OK, who's the dumb reporter? Show yourself, I'm calling you out!
No reply necessary!
patter123 LOL
FDJLakers1
"I was a Ranger in VietNam for two full tours w/ a purp. heart, bronze star, & a few others. A Grunt in one tour w/the 101st ABN, Ranger in the 2nd w/173rd ABN."
I'm sorry FDJ, but you sound like you have self esteem issues and I think the government preys on that. You were a "ranger" got stars and stickers? Sounds like the rewards of a 2 year old for toilet training. I know I will get flack for this post, but I am totally against war and killing so don't see veterans as heroes, but misguided killers for corporate America and they just are too ignorant to understand that notion. If there ever was a draft I would take my son to Canada or even take our chances in Mexico before I ever let him be drafted for rich man wars.
What he did is inexcusable and horrific. However, I think the intention of the article was to provide insight to the individual that committed the crime, not to excuse it. There are alot of variables that no one has ever experienced, even the gentleman who was in Vietnam, as his experience was unique. This was probably a bad combination of an overstretched military, a man assigned too many deployments on top of another and a psychological make up that was not a good match for the situation. It is sad and should be prosecuted fully. I feel for the victim's and his families.
I seem to remember a certain Lieutenant Calley, in Vietnam? Him and his men killed a whole village believing that there were VC in there. These things happen in a war. I agree that Sgt Bales should get a life sentence, or sent to a mental hospital for many MANY years, if he's judged insane. I think this war in Afghanistan is quickly becoming just as bad or worse than Vietnam.
ron --
You're right. I don't even know there are any dead kids. For all I know, the media made up the whole story because they are secretly owned by a European shadow cartel who, in cahoots with the Saudi's, want to bring down the value of the dollar in order to hurt China.
If you are so eager to defend this murderous scum that you will pretend the story isn't even true, then just be happy in your fantasy world.
I don't see a loser I see someone in trouble that should never have been sent back to combat at this time. they should have sent him on the recruiting tour he was scheduled for. Read the signs. My daughter never reads the trouble signs so I live a long way away. I would love to be as perfect a person as most of you think you are but I know I'm not. So I hang with the people who will support me and keep me from going into situations that make me dangerous. But gee I'm 64 and finally learned to stay away from the situations in life that make a loaded gun out of me.
YOU GUYS NEED TO LEAVE THIS POOR MAN ALONE. You guys try and do his job and see if you don't reach your breaking point. I am not excussing his behavier but you try going on 3 1year tours of combat. You lose so many of your buds in combat. Do you guys know the crap he goes through over there? Yeah didn't think so. Also the afhgans said there were multiple shooters. He could just be the fall guy of this. You don't know the truth so how about you shut your mouths untill we get the afhgans side of what happened. Also what does financial issues have to do with this. MSN do you guys know what the pay is for troops? Alot of troops and their familys have finacial issues.
FDJ, What we know, may or may not be a fact. All we do know, is what the media is telling us. And we ALL know how slanted that can be. After all, they are all trained in psychology, as are half of the posters here, (at least from the expert views opined in this vine. Sarcasm intended.) And getting the news, regardless of the consequences of their actions, is key. After all, that's what they're paid to do.
Of course, they just want to get all the "facts" out to the public, then analyze the he77 out of it, regardless of the true situation. But, bet your bottom dollar, if it was somebody they cared about, or associated with every minute of every day, and that person helped keep them alive, it would not even be in the news, as "It's under investigation, and information cannot be divulged as it might influence the just outcome of said investigation." Not even that person's name would have been reported, especially in such a case as this, because of the consequences of such an action. There is too much "freedom of the press," and not enough "RESPONSIBLE freedom of the press."
Osama is dead get out of there. Our way of life does not need to be pushed on them. Support our troops. Love them not crucify them. The bleeding hearts need to live his life(which they never leave their cozy homes) and sped 3 tours in that country like they live. God Bless our troops and what they do.
Already this is compared to Lt Caley. (sp) Those guys spent 365 days in Hell. Now they do 3 to 4 tours. Some Ladies really get the hearts out but you have no idea what happens or what some go through. I have to many friends that are changed because of war and who was killed. Stay in your little world with ideas that we can save the world. We can't save ourselves from destruction with the Gov we have let alone save another country by making them like us. Enough rant. I'm gone
Hey right-wingers! Here's your chance to blame this ALL on the stress this guy felt from the recent "gays in the military" legalization.
Perfect defense. This heterosexual soldier just couldn't stand to be looked at by a gay soldier in the showers anymore, and SNAP! He went out and killed a bunch of civilians.
Isn't this what your mythical jesus creature TOLD YOU would happen?
Go grab your BuyBulls -- it's time for a loud HALLELUJAH!!
Start up your Hate machine, righties! Here's your chance!! CRUSADE! CRUSADE!!
Notice there is no or almost no reporting of the victims of the massacre or its effect on their relatives only about the perpetrator and it's all very sympathetic.
More importantly there's no PICTURES of the victims or the grieving relatives.
The media knows that pictures evoke a powerful emotional response whereas the dry recitation of the facts of the killings do not.
But plenty of pictures and interviews of the killer and his friends and relatives.
The corporate media is very sophisticated in this country and they know that "Seeing is believing".
The imperial adventures in Iraq and particularly Afghanistan have bi partisan support so the media does it's job and tries to maintain as much public support as possible.
On his 4th tour he snapped. Buddy lost a leg. How much can one human endure. My uncle went in the day before D-Day and went to Germany. He was not really the same till he died. Relived the war all the time. Maybe someday they wil give a war and noboby will show up. The US can not keep up spilling our troops blood for some idea that will never change. To attack America is one thing but to go to Forgien Lands to promote ideals is another.
I say the guy lost it. It's a jungle out there where people just try to survive, how an individual decides to survive is just unique as the person... it doesn't need to make sense.
Forget your personal morals and judgments. Sad but when there is no right or wrong, what he did was one way to defeat an enemy. Kill everyone and there's no one left to threaten you. At this point in human evolution many humans do have an innate drive to dominate their environment. If any of you writer's out there knew you wouldn't be punished for anything you did, what would you do? What if you could be the judge, jury and executioner? What if you were the Supreme Power, how would you "fix" things. Terribly paradoxical that man can do so much good and at the same time do so much evil.
Occurrences like this have happened over and over since the beginning of man. The documentation today is so much better! How terrible, how horrible! Guess what? It's happening all over even as you read this. Only the names change.
After reading this nice article on how to hang this solider out to dry and all the opinions from civilians that have no validity, understanding, or concept of what multiple tours in a combat zone does to the individual, all I can do is throw up. Throw in financial problems, marriage problems, being thrown back in to the meat grinder multiple times, a head injury, and it is surprising that something like this didn't happen sooner and more often. This is war. Schzt happens in war, it is an inevitable part of war. It has happened in the past, it will continue to happen until man finally evolves as a social animal. This solider will have to face the consequences of his actions. Those consequences do not include media crucifixion, and passing judgement by an ignorant civilian population. He will be judged by his peers, other combat soldiers, not you pathetic know it all righteous American fat civilians. You've had your two cents of input. Now let the other combat veterans give their opinions which they have earned, unlike most of you. No, I have never been to the Middle East, my time was four years in the jungles of Southeast Asia. I know what multiple tours are, I know what PTSD does to a solider, you don't. So quit insulting those men who did manage 5 or 6 tours without flipping out and shooting civilians. Now they are back here, they brought the battlefield with them. You have no f****** idea of what combat is like.
Once again, someone shows signs of a mental issue, and no one thinks it's a big deal until something bad happens.
I am sorry for his family, but his wife is not the only spouse who had a hard time being a spouse while hers was away.
This crazy soldier gives us a new meaning for Scatterbrain.
Boo Hoo Hoo.
Not gonna buy it. Sowwy. Crazy guy kills, crazy GETS killed. Simple ; over and done with.
Sad situation for everyone. There are no winners anywhere. It is far from simple. A soldier can not refuse deployment. His superiors dropped the ball. This soldier was burnt out. He did snap. It is a blessing that this was not worse. Who put him back into a combat deployment for a fourth tour? You don't have to "buy it". What you "buy" or not has no impact on anyone. The reality is spidey, a whole lot of trouble could have been prevented if Sgt Bales was declared unfit for duty and sent home. I am worried about all the Sgt Bales out there who may or may not snap in such a way, but will have lifelong scars from this abuse of continual redeployments.
Meg-90210,
I have the same sentiments as you on this situation. But, what I meant: Mental-Boy now has to face the consequences of his actions. There are multiple groups of people here in the USA who are going to make darn sure this sergeant does not get away with killing 16 civilians without paying the price. If I had anything to do with being a relative, which I am not by the way, I certainly would not give any quarter to this person.
This has nothing to do with the incident and isn't a background piece, it's more character assassination then anything else. Most enlisted members of the Army face financial troubles when one of the two breadwinners goes on deployment. It's even worse when there is only one breadwinner. As for the HOA statement as to their dependability, he never mentioned anything that might suggest that the association had anything to do with the inflammatory remark because we all know HOAs are such dreams to live within. This story was a cheap shot by the author and by the organization for printing it.Sure would like some unbiased reporting or at least who leaked this guy's name to the media but we all know that isn't going to happen soon, right? Anything for a feeding frenzy.
Bob Olson: Like you, I thought the article was a cheap shot, and not genuine. Here's one item that struck me as grasping for straws in the wind:
"Bales' golden boy image was not untarnished, however. The AP reported that Bales studied business for three years at Ohio State but did not graduate, then handled investments before a market downturn pushed him out of the business."
Where's the tarnish? If he chose to go into business on the strength of what he's learned and thought he could do, how is that any different than, let's say, Steve Jobs? Bales didn't commit murder or suicide over the market downturn, even if it cost him his job.
If MSNBC can't wait for the JAG to issue a verdict under the UCMJ, its reportage is nothing more than an opportunistic sham.
Let the smear campaign begin,They will stop at nothing to try and turn the only Americans that want this mentally disabled American hero solider treated and taken care of. They want more of us to join in with the other Americans calling for his death. The push to blame any American solider for all the problems of these wars continues at a furious pace. Our military personnel have to deal with the enemy, the foreign propaganda,the foreign press,civilians that want to kill them and our own anti-American press not to mention half our own country that treats them like trash.
I am disgraced at the way so many Americans jump on the side of our enemies. Americans killed over burning some books and what do we get, Americans all over these post saying, It is our fault for burning the books! This guy snapped,he has mental problems, he did far more than his share before he broke. He should have at least earned enough respect for us to wait for all the facts to come out before we throw him under the bus.
Some people will stop at nothing to justify COLD BLOODED MURDER of innocent CHILDREN.
Nobody is justifying cold blooded murderer.It's the circumstances leading up to these murders that need to be justified!
A hell of a lot more people need to answer for this, besides this guy! He pulled the trigger, but they supplied the shooter!
Are we to believe that military bases in Afghanistan are like YMCA's? You get a bunk and come and go as you please?
I have seen nothing to explain how an armed soldier in a war zone wanders out of his barracks in the middle of the night, strolls past the sentries, through the gates to local homes where he committes mass murder. Then strolls back into the base and informs his peers of his activities.
Are not weapons locked up overnight? Are soldiers allowed to wander past sentries out into the night in a war zone? Can a solider brandishing a weapon (enemy in disguise?) wander onto a military base in a war zone in the middle of the night?
Gimmie a break. It appears that the Army command and control structure is not eager to explore this subject.
If you remember awhile back, a soldier sneaked out of the camp and was quickly caught by the Al qaeda there. They had a video on the internet of him pleading for his life. I'm wondering if its like Vietnam in that people snuck into the villages for sex, drugs , etc. You get caught, you're screwed, but most maybe don't get caught.
It has taken me most of my life to learn what all are the signs I'm setting myself up for trouble. Financial yep got those, anger oh boy did I have those I think the police in my hometown know the minute I hit city limits. And gee I've only been arrested once not convicted. Last time I jumped in my vehicle and drove to the state line before I stopped so I wouldn't explode. Drove two more days and finally slowed down after reaching Texas. Talked to a cop outside Dallas (car trouble) told him why a 63 yr old woman was running away from home. He made me promise not to leave Texas for a minimum of 6 months went on and stayed on Mustang Island for three weeks before joining people again. I had experience 50yrs and options he had neither.
i can't quite figure out how his financial probs, etc can ever mitigate his actions..this has created nothing but great risk for the soldiers over there..my son being one of them....as if they don't face enough over there with ieds and the infiltrators in the ANA (Afghan Natl Army), who actually are in the compound with the Units...Just as things were starting to calm down over the accidental Koran burning, Bales comes along and puts EVERY SINGLE U.S. SOLDIER at risk. Bales appears to have enlisted after crashing a business, and dropping out of college..this makes his "patriotism" seem to take a back seat to the benefits, including health, and the BAH the army gives for his wife and dependents, ( quite generous, btw)..his rank and years of service give h im a very nice paycheck..PLus...all his pay is tax free while in deployed...so i can't see how they could have money problems unless they lived well above their means, or there are things we haven't been apprised of..
Rut Row.
Robert Bales' civilian lawyer is so freekin gay; Gales is SCREWED. Guess it's safe to say the killer did not get to choose his lawyers.
I wonder how many who are saying:
"have you ever been in a combat zone?"
Have actually been in one themselves; the one guy who did admit to being in a combat zone? He's the only one here I respect for being honest and upfront in saying you don't go around murdering and setting 16 people on fire because you can't pay your bills.
You appear to be such a sucker for Media propaganda, it confirms that the right thing for those who suffer from this 'sucker' malady, is to go out, and shoot themselves.
What Senior Sergeant Bales suffered from is stress, induced by the illegal and tortuous responsibilities placed solely upon him, by a military hierarchy who could not find their own backsides, let alone engage successfully in any conflict. Continuing failure in combat tactics imposes an almost impossible burden upon those who are constrained to implement failing strategies.
Administration Repeats Failed WWI Strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"The Big Push" is a phrase that came into the language with another troop surge that was supposed to bring another war to victory. For months beforehand, the Big Push was how British cabinet ministers, propagandists, generals, and foot soldiers talked about the 1916 Battle of the Somme. (It is even the title of a later book on the subject.)
About the most stupid strategy was the failed 'surge' by Petraeus, and, make no mistake, the CIA is still ruling in Afghanistan.
Many vicious atrocities, mostly punishments for General Staff failures, were perpetrated upon the lower ranks to conceal Gen Staff inadequacy: I have no doubt the mentally ill SSGT Bates, will be another sacrifice upon the cowardly Gen Staff attempts to conceal their total incapabilities.
We have troops fighting in Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Afghanistan and probably secret Special Forces and CIA fighting in Libya, Syria and Iran. Oh, did I mention, our country is BROKE!
You forgot the ones stationed in Korea.
Oh, and did you mention, this has been going on for decades!
@ElkMeadow, the troops stationed in Korea are not in combat. This also goes for Japan, Germany, Italy, Australia, England, ect. Read someone's full comment before stating false facts.
Also, if you think the Republic of Korea(South Korea) is a third world country like the countries listed by JoeGallag you need to do some research and expand your knowledge of the world.
Yeah...but we aren't committing suicide other over it. We're actually trying to figure out how we got there, and how to get out those places. Here at home, we aren't killing each other, we're trying to figure out how to get out of debt. There's no excuse for what Bales did.
To 1hucares (post # 4.4):
To quote you:
Correction to the above comment:
To 1hucares (post # 4.4):
To quote you:
Just what city do you live in that there are no murders or suicides? Not on this planet, that is for sure. You remark is most unrealistic and untruthful at its best! There are thousands of suicides and murders of all ages every year. Many of them are related to the lack of money, not to mention the bullying in schools. At this particular time, the rate of suicide among soldiers is extremely high in the war zone. You obviously sound as if you never spent one day serving in the military. Murder is wrong no matter where one lives. However, when the U.S. sends young soldiers overseas, it is their responsibility to provide immediate healthcare, rather than sweeping the problem under the carpet. Just look at what the Government did and how long they did it with "Agent Orange" in Viet Nam?
Joe Galag you also forgot to mention how stretched thin the Military is,otherwise this guy wouldn't of been in Afghanistan!
And they jump all over Obama because he cannot get a budget passed. However, GWB balanced his budget every year. Oh, except for the wars and medicare, that he forgot and left out of his budget. War money was always a special bill through Congress. And nobody dared stop funding our troops.
You forgot the ones stationed in Italy,Germany and Okinawa. And gee in Texas we are still waiting for the trial of the Major who shot up his base and killed civilians 2 years ago. Where is this utopia may be a good place to live.
Pretty sure we'll be seeing the 'slut' word again. ;)
My dad was a lifer in the military and did two tours of duty in Vietnam and my mother was pregnant when he was away for a tour of duty a third time and she gave birth to my brother who died all while my father was away. My father didn't come home and kill anyone nor have a raging shoot out on innocent civilians. He is to blame for this. And as to choosing your next military assignment - sorry, that doesn't happen. You might be able to pick a few places and hope one of them is chosen. When you join the military they own you. This guy knew it. He was over-extended and seems to have had an anger problem.
And my dad was a 22 year career Marine Corps officer who retired with Distinguished Flying Crosses and at least a dozen Meritorious Service Awards after serving 2 tours in Viet Nam and 1 in Korea. Watched his best friend fly into a mountain and wrote the letters home for the boys under his command who didn't make it. He was ok until the first Iraqi incursion when pictures of the fighting on the news started bringing it all back to him; then he lost it and tried to kill himself and all of us. Point is you just can't say from one guy to the next who is going to crack or when. They all go in "good guys" but war makes demons of us all and, though the military may own you, they certainly will be dam*ned if they will help you when you need it.
There is no question that what this man did is wrong. But he NEVER got the help he needed. Evidently now we are seeing more examples of some of his emotional problems. How did he slip through the cracks? More importantly, WHY DID HE SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS.
It's my opinion that the fallout from this is going to be huge.............and mostly at our expense.
We should quit while we have some integrity left. We need to bring these people home.
I'm sure tens of thousands of Vietnam Veterans NEVER got the help they needed either, but besides "unit infractions," two tours in Vietnam myself, I've never had a Soldier do that.
Plus, I was in Vietnam my first tour 1 month when my wife wrote to tell me she was pregnant with our second daughter, when I saw my daughter, she was almost 4 months old. These guys who join the Military, elect Infantry, and do this kind of slaughter of women and children civilians, must have it planned out in their heads already. It takes a damn fool to join the Military, elect Infantry, and think everything will be peaches and cream. This guy is a disgrace to our Military fighters!
Myself, Retired Infantry NCO
David...just because your dad handled his war does not mean that everyone is like your dad. We are all different and handle situations in life differently.
The media report still does not give any real clue to this man or the family dynamics. I am not sure what it is trying to say or prove or say as it does not indicate how the investigation is going. But the feeding frenzy is on, so lets feed on this soldier's carcass, as per usual.
There are people in this country who have not been to war, have not been deployed overseas to fight in a war where the enemy could be anyone, yet they have killed many people without reason here at home. There was a case last year where man killed many people in a library if I remember correctly, and there was also another case where another person killed several police officers in Virginia(?) and there was the shooting on that uni campus, and the Columbine shooting and even more recently the killing of those people at a gym and the list can go on and on..yet none of these people were in a war zone.
Sometimes people reach their limit and maybe some little inconsequential thing pushes them over the edge. What is not unusual is our lack of compassion or caring. We are inundated with divisive ignorant crap by polititians and from some in the media, while children are being bombarded with it also with some acting out bullying others and with even parents joining in. All this coupled with financial distress and job insecurity,high cost of living while salaries have stagnated, even as some well paid and wealthy polititians call for cutting the public safetynets and not wanting the masses to have healthcare, education, etc.
Enough already. It is time that we suspend judgement until the investigation is done and evidence presented in court. I am not condoning what the soldier was alledged to have done, but let's not go overboard as per usual, pouring salt on the wounds while spewing forth the usual vitriol.
For the next war/conflict there will no doubt be a draft, and which will only be fair, so everyone including the children and grandchildren of the rich/polititians can go experience what these Armed Forces personnel and their families are or have been feeling/experiencing, for themselves. Perhaps by having a draft and requiring all of a certain age to have to go into the warzone may give- the folks who make these decision - pause and use war as the last solution instead of the first.
Peace......
Angie,They do not all go in good guys!
And my uncle came home from WW II and stayed pleasantly buzzed everyday of his life except when he got his disability check then in order for him to get what he needed and have money for the rest of the month. My grandmother would send me with him to the liquor store to cash his check where the owner handed the money to me. We went shopping with a list from grandma and I couldn't let him drink till he had everything on it. And I had to cut him off and call a cab before he got in trouble. Don't get me wrong it wasn't onorus duty he was a happy drunk as my cousin described him. The war stories instead of kids stories at ten playing cards would probably send todays shrinks into fits but I was the shrink he had. And damn I miss him since he died because at that age he was the shrink I had too.
Anger problem? It is more than an "anger problem". It is a psychiatric condtion. Commanders are responsible for sending an unfit soldier into a war zone. Bales had no choice. The blood is on his supervisors hands. Heavy the head that wears the crown.
All this talk about this poor soldier having a difficult life. I have known many, many soldiers who have had a difficult life and I feel for them. I spent 26 years in the military and did not face half the hardships they do. The difficulty is that this must not lead to murder. There is simply no excuse for this. Regardless of the difficulties we face, if we do what this coward did, we do not live by our oath as Soldiers. I care about the challenges this man faced but we cannot forget the challenges he is forcing others to endure. A horrendous act by a horrendous man.
Thank you, sir, for your years of service and sacrifice. We should all care about the difficulties that our servicemen and women face and we should try to learn from this, and all of the atrocities that have been perpetrated by our soldiers hopefully so as not to repeat the mistakes that caused them in the first place.
Whether this guys was sick or wounded, angry or evil he must, indeed, pay the price for his actions. The pride of the uniform requires that he hold himself to a higher standard and, whatever the reason may have been, he buckled and fell much farther than an ordinary man. It's hard not to but we must take care when we put humans on pedestals...
I don't fully know what someone suffering from PTSD may do when placed under stress, or intoxicated, or just angry.
No doubt the perpertrator of the murders must be held accountable. But if SSgt Bales had medical problems that made him less reliable, the military would have benefited from having identified his condition and placing him on a medical hold pending treatment.
Thank you for your service but all people are not the same all people do not have the same break point. PTSD is a new name for an old set of problems and they don't even know how all people react to stress or percieved danger. I left Iowa and my family in 2010 running like a deer because I was one snap of the fingers from launching myself over a table and killing somebody. I was feeling trapped and threatened and that is how I react to feeling attacked. So I won't judge until all the facts are in though I do see signs in this piece a competant doctor should have seen.
I am just oh so glad that many of you do not or will not come to terms with how the events went down. Dam glad none of you are on a jury either. I'm both amazed and slightly impressed that there hasn't been more of this item occuring on a mass scale. If any of you think or feel that those same Afghans wouldn't do the same thing to any one of you in any one of a number of venues then you are not just naive, but wholly inept and ill equipped to deal with whats coming down the pipeline....and ladies and gentlemen....I'm only going to say this once.....when those sleeper cells come to life and all hell breaks loose you're all going to be crying a river as to why we didn't deal with them on the only level they know. good luck.
That's a truly smart remark!
Another victim of the Iraq War. RIP 16 innocent victims.
Lets see, history of trouble and head injury...lets redeploy him, yeah thats a great idea...
If everyone who had a concussion and a few brushes with the law was removed from the armed forces then there is no way we could sustain our worldwide everlasting war. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but it's the truth.
A concussion is nothing like PTSD................ And don't forget it!
Um, LevTolstoy2 do you even know what you are talking about? I don't see his medical record in plain view, so any sort of head trauma + traumatic stress disorder could spell disaster, and it did. Our government can patch soldiers up, and make them as good as new, but mentally they could care less. Maybe they will care more now. I don't know.
With the issues he has had in the past, I'm surprised they let him have a gun. He shouldn't have been anywhere near a gun. He should have been getting psychiatric help.
I still believe he should pay the price, but not with death. He needs to be in a mental facility ... and his family needs some protection.
My comment was in response to PGWP's: "Lets see, history of trouble and head injury...lets redeploy him, yeah thats a great idea..." I don't have a clue as to what this man's full medical history is. I was merely saying that those who suggest that it's outrageous to even contemplate the military sending someone who has had a concussion and a few minor brushes with the law are ignoring the reality, which is that there are plenty of folks who have had concussions and legal problems serving in our armed forces. If we got rid of all of them, the costs of participating in these endless stupid wars would go up substantially.
Maybe there was a reason that he was denied the promotion...Can't say as it has been reported how he lost part of his foot. They did say it was because of an IED...Was it a gun shot wound? And who pulled the trigger? Just makes a person think that we don't know the whole story here that is all I'm saying.
PGWP said,
LevTolstoy2 said,
NyNy-2742735 said,
Then he says,
There you go twisting other peoples words again LevTolstoy2 ,
You are the one that changed head injury to concussion.
You do this constantly to everyone that does not share your view.
No. His lawyer referred to it as a concussion. Learn to read.
Just to clarify: when the story originally broke, there were references to a "traumatic head injury." That can refer to a range of injuries, from a concussion to a railroad spike through your head. Then his lawyer very specifically referred to it as a "concussion." That is different than a "severe head injury" though it is certainly a "traumatic head injury." And I stand by my contention that it is not at all unexpected for the military to send people back into combat after a concussion. If they didn't, the cost of fighting these wars would be substantially higher.
To sum up: traumatic does not equal severe.
Concussions and head injurys leave their own problems for example siezure disorders, migrane headaches, bursts of sudden anger. My second husband had seizures from scar tissue on the brain caused by a fever at 7 that didn't present themselves until he was 16. Stress, poor nutrution or lack of sleep would almost certainly lead to seizures. Concussions also come in ranges from severe to momentary loss of consciousness.Which is why if your doctor asks did you lose conciousness and you say yes the next question is How long?
Right... Literally a no brainer. A TBI can have all kinds of concequences including loss of impulse control and personality changes. I still don't know why nobody noticed this?
Here we F'n go again.... Mass media liberal conservative or in between.... trying to HUMANIZE what cannot be!!!!!! Why? = prepare us for another war hint..IRAN = keep a job = protect Israel = JEWISH wealthy CEO's = ridiculous
wake up fools!!! they will attempt to brainwash you sheep to make you think this wacko was under pressure when he put bullet holes in to the head of a baby..
Unless you've been in those shoes, kindly shut up. You don't know. I don't know. We, none of us, know. No excuses for what he did. No excuses for what any of them have done - on both sides! But have a little compassion, will you, and try to think outside of that box you've stuck your brain in.
kindly suck my shank you stupid pussy.. you don't know where ive been!!!
Wow...really intelligent response. Guess I should have expected it but I always want to give a troll the benefit of the doubt...silly me. Don't really give a dam*n where you've been but here's wishing you'd crawl back under the rock wherever it may be! G'day :)
this is your life Angie!!! living to defend the defenseless. when some dickwad soldier go wacko and shoots one of your trailer trash runts in the back..... then i will agree with you. you are living in the clouds
How could anyone think he wasn't under pressure. Combat War Zone, buddy blown up the day before.... seriously... spent 3 yrs in Iraq. I hate the media for dissecting his personal life. AngieS, you have wisdom.
Me-4178190, You are a big mouth liberal punk who has never done anything good for this country expect whine when your welfare check was late. Military men are doing the job you are too cowardly to do. So just shut up and crawl back into your hole
Former MarineCorps Scout/Sniper
KrisBy @11.5 - I want the military to "dissect" everything and anything that led to this serviceman's behavior. His actions put many, many others in more danger and harmed their reputations.
Yes, pog8, i also want the military to dissect everything and prevent other possibilities of this happening in the future. I think it is cruel to publicly humiliate his family.
me needs to be thrown off this BOARD! YOU'RE OVER DOING IT WITH THE FILTHY INSULTS! We don't care where you've been!
Throw him OFF!
me-4178190 you are so full of sh**t not even funny.Too much for your noodle to comprehend.
What the freaking hell is he trying to say?
Again, I am surly not condoning what Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales did in Afghanistan, however, I am not about to "stone" the guy on the streets of Kandahar either as the Karzai is suggesting. I feel for him.. He is one of ours with a wife and two children. I read his past and after joining in the wake of 09/11 he has been through 3 tours of hard stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan. Stuff that most of us can't even fathom. This is not a kid that was bullied and took a gun to school! Our troops are fighting for their lives daily in an unconventional war with unconventional enemies. I will ALWAYS support our troops!
We all support the troops. We just dont support cold blooded weak killers like this guy. There are soldiers who have suffered worse and served with honor. He is a disgrace to the other soldiers. I highly doubt you would feel for him if he came to your home and shot your kids !!!
I don't have to worry about people coming to my house and killing my children. I live in America in an evironment where I can provide, protect, and secure my children and I have earned that right and protection. The troops you are referring to are my friends that are "turned" on every day by the very people that they are sworn to protect in many cases. Yes he snapped and I do not condone this, however, I am not about to give all of our troops a bad name over this and I will stand by Robert Bales before I see him hung or stoned on the streets of the very countries he has been protecting. He will be punished under the laws that our military have set forth. Trust me, he is not the first soldier to go AWOL. That's just common sense man.. God bless his family and America!
Chad, you said
Tell that to the victims in TX who were gunned down by yet another "golden boy" of the armed forces from the same base as Bales. The little I know of that one was it was last month (or a few wks ago) and he got up in the clock tower of a downtown area and just kept shooting, RIGHT HERE ON US SOIL.
He didnt do it near as methodically as Bales did ... i suppose you wont blame him because in his mind, he wasnt shooting Americans, just Afghanis. That is PTSD .... NOT what Bales did, He doesnt deserve the honor of being called Sgt.
Browne defended Ted Bundy as well ,,, so I looked him up. Ted Bundy was also a cute, all-American "golden boy" with a good track record .... until it was discovered he had methodically killed, raped and stole from over 100 women in at least 8 different states over the course of at least one, perhaps 2 decades. He was formally charged with 40 of those deaths, electrocuted for the triple murder/rape in FL. He was mentallly ill, but you couldnt tell by talking to him, he was a sociopath (aka psychopath).
Mass murders and serial killers are not the same ... I know this. But they are killers. Exactly because they commit such sickening, horrendous crimes we know that they are mentally sick in some way. That doesnt absolve them of their crimes .... it merely helps us understand how another human being can commit such attrocities. Discovering why these attrocities happened isnt for the perpertrator ... it is for everyone else so that we can process what has happened and still continue to believe that society/civilization as a whole is good and that these things will not usually happen.
We still have someone who, regardless of why, took it upon himself to go AWOL, break into family homes while they were sleeping and massacre families,
Bales took a knife and a gun and killed 3 women in one home, and then proceeded to slaughter girls ages 2,3,4,5 and 4 boys in ages 8 to 12. He stabbed them and shot them. He then gathered them together and set them on fire. I shudder to think if any of them were still hanging onto life when he gathered them and set fire to them. As if this wasnt enough, he then walked to the next village and did repeated his attrocites on one family amd tried to do it again to a third family. All in the middle of the night while they were sleeping.
It takes a true coward to see sleeping babies as a threatening enemy worth of massacring.
Now, if he does have PTSD and somehow does get his freedom, BE VERY AFRAID in that AMERICA safe haven you live in. PTSD can NOT be cured and if he buymps into you or yours and has an episode of flashbacks, you could very well appear to him to be an Afghani in an Afghani village that needs wiping out. Well, I suppose if you are awake, he wouldnt have the balls to do it even in a PTSD episode. He prefers defensless sleeping enemies half his size or smaller. But, one of his fellow soldiers could get you .... right in the mall or downtown, or at the movie theater.
Recycled hope your so in the dark not even worth replying. He did 3 tours in a combat war going on his forth. If it was your son you wouldn't be talking all that sh**t. Very sad for all but this is a case of too many tours in combat and he still deserves to be called Staff Sgt. You go back to you flower garden let us figure this out!!!My prayers go out to all the victims and there families and Staff sgt B.....
Recycled Hope, where did you get your information? You seem to have a lot of information that the public was not privy to, or supposed to be informed of, as it could cause serious consequences for all parties actually involved.
4what44 before you call someone weak walk the path they did. You don't know what caused him to do that. I'm not sure but I have an idea. If what I think is true I feel for him because you can't punish him as much as he will punish himself for the rest of his life. If what I think is true he will see himself doing that like a bad TV show for the rest of his life awake or asleep. So give the system time to work and remember these aren't robots we are sending out there. Armies world over push for maximum effort which equates to the point at which serious cracks appear in mans ability to withstand the stress then they back off. I guess the cracks are starting. God be with you Sergeant Bales. My prayers for the victims and their families
Frosty,
I have been reading about this attrocity since it first broke .... hours after his arrest. Some of the srticles have been reused by editing out initial info and adding in other, updated info. I have read them online like most here - msnbc, reuters, AP and actually used some links provided to see what the British and French were also reporting. When I read that Browne also represented the serial killer Ted Bundy, I researched that as well.
I havent merely read one article. Have you been watching the progression of this article as well? Have you seen the pictures of some of the dead children and families as I have?
If not, pay attention and check other news articles as well.
This issue is about a mass murderer who when on a shooting spree killing babies, toddlers, young children and their parents in the middle of the night as they slept in their homes WITHIN the confines of their villages, not a hungry soldier in the forest mistaking these kids for geese.
He has commited wanton murder, regarless of the reasons, and has place more soldiers in real harms way in a battlefield - more so than Manning ever did with the release of those files to wiki leaks.
Either defend Manning because he "snapped" or demand the same for Bales as Mannings is getting.
Bales didnt only kill those 16 innocent victims (if the other 5 critically wounded who were flown out to a military hospital have died already, make that 21). he is also reponsible for any of our military personnel killed in retaliation for this graveky inhumane attrocity.
He has much blood on his hands, more blood will be on them, more families will be devastated ... American families whose sons, daughters, fathers, mothers wont be coming home because one soldier who didnt want to go to where he was sent, with a history of beating up a girlfriend and mandatory anger management therapy, who fled on foot from a car accident (referred to in the police report as as hit and run), who abandoned one home left in shambles to financially over extend himself with another chose to vent his fustration and rage on defenseless children and women.
As someone else posted on at least one of these comment boards, why didnt he at least go and try to find a few taliban fighters to "duke out" his anger. At least they could have given him more of a fight than the 2 yr old could to allieviate his rage.
One of my brothers has my father's italian temper (call it PTSD from being a kid in europe during WWII) and he hits walls when angry, NOT people.
Mental health
3,920 cases of mental disorder in 2007:
Army: 2,318
RAF: 847
Royal Navy: 511
Royal Marines: 89
Unknown: 155
Source: Ministry of Defence
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) recognises psychological illness, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), as a serious and disabling condition, but one which can be treated.
The Defence Mental Health Services has extensive experience in psychological treatments for mental health problems and psychological injury.
The main focus of the treatment of mental illness is on recovery and rehabilitation. Priority is placed on increasing awareness of stress-related disorders and diagnosing and treating them.
Measures are in place to increase awareness at all levels to prevent the development of PTSD and other stress-related disorders among servicemen and women.
When can we know what Medical Services were available for SSgt. Bales....what we do know, is that 70% of those who are in combat zones for longer than a year, are traumatically affected.
You can ONLY control PTSD with recognition that you have PTSD, and in severe cases, medications.
I have PTSD, didnt know it until I was 38, have had it since I was a preschooler, but it took a traumatic incident 18 years ago for all those symptoms to come to an intensity that flashbacks, intense emotions, and fear for my life and the lives of those I love overtook me.
You do NOT have to be in an officially declared combat zone to get PTSD ... all you need is severe abuse like child molestation and rape, physical abuse (formerly known as dicipline - spare the rod, spoil the child; in my case, the belt), etc. There are MANY, many people who have PTSD right here on US soil and throughout the world who do NOT even know it until something else very traumatic happens decades later and it doesnt usually happen in a violent way like so many think.
Once you realize you have it ... you can gain control over it, BUT YOU CAN NOT CURE IT. It is amazing what the human mind can do to protect your soul ... but eventually, even decades later, you must deal with the trauma to get it to stop interfering with your life. In many ways, going within oneself to meet amd "reparent" your "inner child" helps and it is amazing what happens when you do, but it doesnt "cure it" ... it merely makes the the thoughts that can occur prior to an episode recognizable as such and "manageable". It doesnt erase the memories ... it doesnt erase the fight or flight response mechansims within, it doesnt erase the intense emotions thereof ... it merely allows you to "deal with it" without feeling like you have lost your mind and soul.
Unfortunately you can never undo the damage ... just deal with it.
No one can sneak up on me unless they do so intentionally from outside my field of my pheripheral vision .... and when they do, it affects them much, much more than it does me. I am accustomed to my startle reaction and am not afraid ... grown men however will jump back at least a foot in response to it. I always know who is around me and I love my cigarettes - they keep people, even friends and family OUT OF MY FACE and allow me my personal space. I dont have to say back off, I dont have to back away, I dont have do anything other than light up. I can continue the conversation, maintain my own space and temper the emotions that may arise during an intese discussion (many topics can get heated or intense) while not "running away" from it or attempting to control the conversation.
I grew up terrified of trucks, men, very loud noises .... my life choices were definitely affected by it. But not once was I ever violent because of it. In fact, I ensured that violence was NOT a part of my life because of it. My son, when he was 6, had tried flushing one of his windup toys down the toilet. To say my husband was mad was an understatement. Once he dismantled and reassembled the toilet to fix it as we ever so quietly tiptoed around him for several hours, he came out charging. He was screaming at my son and went and got a belt. NO WAY IN HELL was he going to use a belt on our sone. He found that out very quickly. He was even madder, but not going to deal with me over it, so he went outside and mowed the lawn. I brought him out a drink and wanted to discuss it. He would have no part of that and turned red as he yelled at me. I picked up one of the lawn chairs, and while smashing it, let him know that in no uncertain way, he would NOT be taking a belt nor any other instrument against our child, or any of our other kids, as that chair smashed into a zillion pieces and he jumped back a few feet. All in all, I wiped out 3 chairs in this discussion and always kept the fourth chair as a reminder. He quietly finished mowing the lawn and never again attempted to "use the belt" on any of our 4 children. We spanked our children ... BUT i made the rule that only one gentle smack would be used in doing so ... anything more was merely his fustration and anger ... and if he needed to use a "weapon" such as a belt or wooden spoon, it wasn't discipline, but child abuse and I would call the police.
I also do NOT allow drinking of alcoholic beverages in my home, no matter what. I do NOT see the reason to get intoxicated to celebrate a child's birthday or a holiday. My famiy and friends respect that and know they will not get a beer, glass of wine (and I am ethnically Italian), or hard drink in my home. They also no longer offer me one when I am at their homes. I have never done drugs and only tried alcohol in college my freshman year. I didnt like the loss of personal control. As a child, I had no personal control ... as an adult, I will be damned if anyone or anything will take it away from me.
PTSD is too complex to get into completely on here ... you should look up more than merely what the military protocol has to say about it. The military may diagnose it and consider it treatable for their own monetary concerns, but there are specialists out there who have spent decades researching it and treating it. This in NOT a condition only affecting soldiers ... merely recognized by the military since the civilian mental health specialists had established it as existing within human beings. It wasnt the consequences of war that brought it to light, but the violence in our own streets and homes. Rape victims, abuse victims, molestations of young children, crimes such as muggings and assault ... the list is endless. The military had to recognize it since it was now a "fact of life" ... but hell, they didnt want to pay for the years of "treatment" and "medical management", so they came up with a cure the rest of society has not recognized.
I think it is inhumane to send these guys and gals back for one deployment after another. If we are in a war, we need to institute the draft and make everyone take a turn. I hate what the government is doing to these enlisted men. I am not condoning what he did, but what the government did to him is unconscionable.
As you imply, the military is voluntary. He made the decision himself. The government didn't ask him to do anything that he didn't sigh up for. There is not excuse for his actions.
Getting out is not voluntary, unless you are an officer...............
I don't know what the volunteer hitch is now 3years maybe 4years? Lots can happen to a man in that time including 2 trips to hell. Only way out is a medical discharge or a dishonorable discharge neither option is a pleasant one.
Try 6 years.
Yea, we're all under stress. Moreso now, because of this coward. Joined after 9/11? And, that had what to do with Iraq? Sounds like he just wanted to kill people to be a "big man." Killing women and children. The blame lies with the military brass for putting a clearly psychotic soldier with head trauma in the field. More military "intelligence." Get this guy the help he needs and get out of Afghanistan. That might help.
John How much time did you put in a War Zone. I did 3 in Iraq and 2 in Afghanistan while you hide behind your family
Thanks for absolutely nothing, Sammy.
Sammy, those that haven't been will never understand and hardly appreciate it.
And those who think that being a man means raising your family rather than running halfway around the world for months at a time to waste money, time, and lives in a conflict that not even their commanders understand will never comprehend the halo of irrational pride and self-congratulation that surrounds many (though certainly not all) veterans
And those who think that being a man means raising your family rather than running halfway around the world for months at a time to waste money, time, and lives in a conflict that not even their commanders understand will never comprehend the halo of irrational pride and self-congratulation that surrounds many (though certainly not all) veterans
Your comment should be in a form of a letter to John Mc CAin and Lindsey Graham. You are targeting the wrong audience.
Charles Whitman, the University of Texas sniper from 1966, had similar injuries. And, was described as a kind, gentle guy. This phenomena has been known about for decades. Severe head trauma can lead to massive breaks with reality. The U.S. military brass didn't care about the safety of Afghans, and consequently, as a result, their own troops.
Actually Charles Whitman had a brain tumor, which was pushing on his amygdala, an area of the brain that is known to produce hostility, rage and violent outbursts when stimulated.
But your point is well-taken... Sgt. Bales is known to have suffered some type of injury to his brain. Until we know more about his injury, no one can say that it did not contribute to this act.
The injury he suffered was multible tours of duty to The Endless War of America. It's time we get our Damn Fricking soldiers out of these Muslim Hell Holes and now...
Think about it, when has any American in history been subjected to this many tours of duty in War?? If the damn War Machine gets their way, another one is around the corner. I say start the draft so every damn family is subjected to war and then maybe they won't turn such a blind eye to what is really happening to our kids..
Thank god, my son only did one tour in Afganistan, because he came back fricked up bad. It's been five years now, but his pain of his fallen friends hasn't ended...
This soldier is alot like my son who sighed up right after 911 feeling he was doing his patriotic duty, I feel sorry for the guy and for the victims of this endless war.. Get out now America...
Help him Everett, listen to him, let him know you don't think he is weak for feeling all this. Don't let him feel like less than a man because it bothers him. Let him rage if he needs to as long as he is not hurting himself or others. Give him a safe place to blow up. Someone (you) who won't hold anything he says against him. And pray because that is all you can do. My prayers are with your son may he find the strength he needs to overcome.
You know this just reminds me...Afghanistan has been in war for over 30 years! that country has seen which most eyes do not witness. it is one of the poorest country in the world. Those people can't get one complete meal...lets face it! most might have psychological issues because they have seen their kids dead, daughters raped, and fathers killed in the name of Taliban. Consider that next time you try to give an excuse for the death of innocent civilians no matter who they are!
Thanks nabsaf.I tried to make exactly the same point yesterday.At his point it's likely that most of the Afghan population have never known anything but war.It's sickening,after what they've been through,to hear them described as sub-humans who want to live in the stoneages.When all you know is violence is it a surprise if you become-dare I say it-violent?
Good because war has screwed them up we should not take consideration for someone else war has screwed up. Your logic puzzles me. Can there only be one set of victims in an insane situation? Can't there be victims on both sides of an insane situation? We the people of the US will be paying a long time after this has ended for the soldiers who couldn't quite live up to your standards of perfection. We still have people of my generation who are back physically but can't quite live up to what you expect and that has been 40 years. Not all casualties of war have their names on a wall or markers on their graves. This is the third generation of soldiers I've seen of whom some never quite make it back. They are victims too.
Sounds exactly like the past 30 years in the USA.
Congratulations pmsnbc, you've now ruined another american family and uniformed person by bringing all the dirty laundry out....Family had enough strife to deal with without you bringing all their other troubles to light....
The NYT should be charged with treason for all the anti military stories they have run over the years. Giving aid and comfort to the emeny is the liberal media's only agenda.
All people in the USA need to know whether our military can accomplish their stated mission and what difficulties are interfering with success. We need information to know whether congressmen who advocate for ground troops in other countries are basing their voting on reality.
"The NYT should be charged with treason for all the anti military stories they have run over the years. Giving aid and comfort to the emeny is the liberal media's only agenda."
Yep, nothing says "freedom" like trying reporters for treason when they write negatively about the armed forces.
Right now the brass needs oversight. We need to demand they investigate if cases of soldiers who should not be sent into combat are being properly addressed? And for all who say he volunteered if our government intends to keep this up it is time to address the manpower issue and reinstitute the draft so all you computer warriors don't feel left out.
To Me-4178190,
You sir are a complete idiot. AngieS had some very good coments, Wether you like agree with them or not.
You're incapable of holding a decent conversation obviously. And proved yourself to be quite the FOOL.
Oh, Coyotehunter! Good to see you! You were the guy who was praising the Communist Red Army invasion of Afghanistan last night, even though you are probably too ignorant to understand that you were even talking about it. I look forward to more of your insightful commentary!
Read too many versions of "War and Peace" have we Tolstoy? What a jackass left-wing "Michael Moore" you are.. I won't even waist my time tearing your theories and comments to pieces. Stop hearing and start thinking!
Lev, you are embarrassing yourself! Sounds like you couldn't pass the pee test.......
Please don't "waist" your time. Also, don't "waste" it. "Stop hearing and start thinking." Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...
Estimates are that over a million Afghan civilians died during the Soviet occupation.How many more were wounded,disfigured or crippled?And that's just physical damage.
Yeah, he and about 200 million other Americans. Why can't the friggin' media quit trying to explain the poor guy's problems. The psychiatrists will find out what caused this tragedy, and they will tell us all. Until then, why don't the media just shut the *uck up?
What is the big deal? It is not like the US Military hasn't killed plenty of non-combatant men, women, and children deliberately. Don't know why they are crucifying this guy or publicizing what he did. Plus, it is Afghanistan. I wouldn't be surprised if our leadership snapped and ordered the massacre of a great number of them. It is the only solution. Well that or leaving.
Yeah Hoosier, but I bet you never served in a combat zone.
Grandfather served in France in WWI - saw many horrors - came home - had financial problems raising 12 kids - never went crazy and killed anyone.
Father served in WWII - Italy - saw many horrors - came home - lived in tough times - no heat in house in winter - barely adequate clothing and food - raised two kids and never went crazy and killed anyone.
Uncle - served in WWII - Europe - saw many horrors - came home - struggled through tough times - raised three kids - never went crazy and killed anyone.
Uncle - served in WWII - Japanese Island wars - very worst horrors anyone could face - came home - same tough times - raised four kids - never went crazy and killed anyone.
Not to mention - relatives in Korea - Vietnam - all came home - picked up the pieces and raised families.
NO EXCUSE for killing kids in the manner this guy did. Still - he should be judged in the US - not by the Iraq Government. If he has brain damage that should be considered - although his superiors should be held accountable for not knowing that.
Brickwall - you got everything right , except whats with the IRAQI government thing.?? He was in Paki land and killed Paki's, not Iraqi's........
Whats with the Paki thing??
Afghanistan
Brickwall and I can tell you stories of guys from all those wars that only came home physically. I can tell you of the uncle D-Day, Holland, Germany who jumped for ten years if you came up too quietly behind him. And his brother Pacific theater who stayed pleasantly buzzed for the rest of his life and bounced in and out of VA homes, and who had to be babysat by his 10 year old niece when his disability check came so he got what he needed before he really started drinking. Thank You God at least he was a compliant drunk. No they never killed anybody else after they came home. They were to busy killing themselves slowly.
Oh, so now we can understand why this happened. Give me a break! This is the usual nauseating crap from the mainstream media to make the perpetrator the victim. What do you want to bet we won't see similarly detailed stories about the victims. Of course, they don't have the same value. Once again, the media is a shill for the empire. Puke!
There is never an excuse to leave a base and deliberately murder civilians. No excuse. By doing so, you put the rest of the military at risk. 3-4 tours.....Yeah, it sucks. No excuse for murdering families, sleeping in their homes. Ive done a lot, and saw a lot; based on my time in the Marines. However, this guy gives all of us a bad name. Ive lost friends that have died constructing schools, or lost a leg when handing candy to kids. We're all under stress. We joined, deal with it. Walking into a house and killing kids? F**k you, man! I dont care about your previous problems, and I will never feel sorry for him. Tough s***.
Semper Fi.
Semper fidelis ad qui??????
Willyam,Ad Marjoram Dei Gloriam and he isn't a Marine numb nuts.1/5Chau Lam Tet
I would love to hear your take then on a major with a medical degree Psychiatry no less. Who shot up his base and killed and wounded civilians. Because his trial is supposed to start this June or July 2 years after the incident. BTW the civilians he killed and wounded were Americans.
I knew of a guy who came home from WWII, and was institutionalized. He was released, and some time after that, at age 26, got into an argument with his mother (she wanted him to not grow a beard and not to go to Alaska). He killed her, and was later acquitted by a jury: innocent by reason of insanity. I think he went back to the institution, but never found out for sure. The newspapers said he should have never been released.
I wonder whenever I see a panhandler with a sign, proclaiming himself to be a veteran, how many are real, which ones are posers?
What???
Well, these numbers are real. 1 out of every 3 homeless people are military veterans, but less than 1 out of every 100 Americans ever serve in the military. This is how our country treats the men and women who fight and die for our country - they're lucky if they don't end up dumped in a landfill somewhere!
Even so, there's no excuse for killing women and children who are asleep in their homes!
Almost makes it sound like it would have been OK if he would have just woke them up first.