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Subscribe to RSSChicago police believe the drive-by shooting that killed a 6-year-old girl may have been gang related. WMAQ-TV's Christina Farr reports.
At least 10 people were killed and 39 others wounded during a bloody weekend in Chicago, police said.
Among the dead is a 6-year-old girl -- identified by the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office as Aliyah Shell -- who was shot Saturday outside her house in the 3100 block of South Springfield Avenue, police said. A pickup truck approached and somebody inside began shooting, striking the girl in the abdomen, police said.
The little girl's sister was inside the house when she heard a popping sound outside.
"They started shooting but I thought it was fireworks. I heard like five or six gunshots. I thought they were fireworks," said Desiree Valzquez, Aliyah's sister. "I ran outside, and my mom was holding my sister. My sister wasn't talking anymore. She wasn't breathing."
For more, visit NBCChicago.com
Sunday afternoon, police charged two teens with Aliyah's murder -- 18-year-old Juan Barraza and a 16-year-old boy. Both teens are charged with murder and aggravated discharge of a firearm. Police said they recovered a gun at the scene.
Here are details on some other weekend shootings:
Saturday evening, somebody inside a vehicle fatally shot a 24-year-old man standing in the 5900 block of South Fairfield Avenue about 7:04 p.m., police News Affairs Officer Veejay Zala said. He suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was initially taken to John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County, where he was pronounced dead, police said.
Adrian Cruz, 24, of the 5900 block of South Fairfield Avene suffered multiple gunshot wounds and was pronounced dead at Stroger Hospital at 8:17 p.m., according to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office.
At 7:50 p.m., police found a 21-year-old man dead with a gunshot wound to the head in the 800 block of East 79th Street, Zala said.
The victim was identified as Vincent Fitts, 22, of the 4100 block of West Cermak Road, according to the medical examiner’s office.
The last fatal shooting Saturday happened at 10:30 p.m., when a man in his 20s was shot in the back while inside a vehicle in the 6300 block of South Ellis Avenue, police News Affairs Officer Amina Greer said. He may have driven himself to nearby University of Chicago Medical Center, where he was dead upon arrival.
Jeremy Anthony, 24, of the 6400 block of South Ellis Avenue was pronounced dead at the University of Chicago Medical Center at 10:50 p.m., according to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office.
After a few hours without reports of any fatal shootings, more murders ensued early Sunday.
About 1:20 a.m., a 36-year-old man was fatally shot in the 7500 block of South Wolcott Avenue, police said. The man was in a back yard at a party when shots were fired into the yard from a passing vehicle. He was pronounced dead at Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn with a gunshot wound to the abdomen.
Bert Lindsey, 36, of the 7500 block of South Wolcott Avenue was pronounced dead at 2:16 a.m., according to the Cook County Medical Examiner’s office.
At 1:55 a.m., one person was shot dead and two others wounded during a shooting in the 1400 block of West 53rd Street, police News Affairs Officer Hector Alfaro said. Two people were taken to Stroger and one was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital.
Saturday and Sunday saw numerous other serious but non-fatal shootings.
At 3:22 p.m. Saturday, an 18-year-old man was shot in the arm and a 20-year-old man was shot in the body in the 5200 block of South Albany Avenue, police said. Both men were taken in serious-to-critical condition to Mount Sinai Hospital, according to Fire Media Affairs.
About 3:35 p.m., a 17-year-old girl was shot in the leg in the 100 block of East 107th Street, Zala said.
Paramedics took the teen to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn in serious-to-critical condition, according to Fire Media Affairs.
About the same time, an 18-year-old man was shot in the arm during a drive-by attack in the 4600 block of South Michigan Avenue, police said. The man drove himself to Provident Hospital of Cook County and was listed in good condition.
About 7:30 p.m., two men were wounded in a shooting on the Eisenhower Expressway near the 2900 block of West Congress Parkway, Zala said. State Police are investigating, but a spokeswoman was not immediately available for comment.
One of the men, 37, was shot in the head and back, Zala said. Information on the other wounded person was not immediately known. The fire department said it took two men from the scene to Mount Sinai Hospital in serious-to-critical condition.
About 9:05 p.m., a man and two teenage girls were standing on the sidewalk in the 8300 block of South Kedzie Avenue when several males fired shots, police said.
One 14-year-old girl was shot in the left leg, and the other girl, also 14, was shot in the right leg, police said. The girls were taken in good condition to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn and Holy Cross Hospital. A man in his 20s was also shot in the chest and taken in serious condition to John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County.
At 9:50 p.m., a 28-year-old woman was shot in the face when she opened the door of her apartment in the 5000 block of North Mango Avenue and a male shot her, police said. The shooting was possibly domestic-related. She is in “stable” condition at Advocate Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge.
A 33-year-old man was in the 6300 block of South Richmond Street at 11:30 p.m. when a male approached, produced a handgun and demanded money, police said. The victim was taken in serious condition to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn with gunshot wounds in the back and leg.
Sunday at 12:05 a.m., a 20-year-old man was sitting on the porch in the 5900 block of South Laflin Street when he heard shots and felt pain, police said. He was taken in “stable” condition to John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County with a gunshot wound to the groin.
At 12:55 a.m., a 22-year-old man was walking on the sidewalk in the 800 block of East 66th Street when a dark-colored sedan drove by and shots were fired, police said. He was taken to St. Bernard with a gunshot wound to the left shoulder.
A teenage boy was hospitalized in serious condition at John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County after suffering multiple gunshot wounds on the South Side. The boy, 17, was shot in the back and face in the 500 block of East 67th Street about 2:17 a.m., police said.
A male shot multiple times on the West Side early Sunday is hospitalized in serious condition. He was in the 3300 block of West Evergreen Avenue about 4:20 a.m. when an unknown offender fired gunshots, hitting him in his chest and legs, police said. The unidentified male victim was taken in serious condition to an unknown hospital, police said.
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Spring comes early to Chicago, and the animals come out of hibernation.
But a miracle happened:
according to the article above:
Gang bangers at work ( again ).
We have a lot of problems in this country but this is one we must solve now.
bob
The inner city's of America have become war zones, roving gangs of minority youth's, striking back at a society they hat; with the coming of a economic collapse at the end of 2012 (see Trumps prediction's, based on economic models); be ready for open warfare in our city's, who on earth ever though , after 16 trillion in transfer payments to improve the minority class, we are in worst shape then when we started.
Animals do not act like this. They are too civilized.
I would not be against taking the military out of other countries and starting a 'war' here. These gangs need to be reeled in and those who commit these monstrous acts need to have harsher penalties then a stay in prison...such as a long walk off a short cliff in a rope necklace. It may seem cold-hearted, but I'm am so tired of innocent people getting involved in this random acts of senseless violence that is only used to up a members status.
No question it is too late for gun control. Too many guns are already in circulation. But, there has to be some kind of control! Shooting at children and young people from moving vehicles can only be the outrageously irresponsible behavior of deranged lunatics. What sort of conditions are breeding such perverted human beings who commit these senseless acts? Hopeless poverty, lack of parental control, unwanted births, violence on TV, inadequate law enforcement, and a drug fueled economy are some probable factors which must be considered. We are witnessing a significant breakdown in society caused by negligence, corruption, exploitation, and lack of political will to introduce or support any legislation that might cost votes.
I would suggest that you pick up a grammar and spelling book. It's hard to read your post. City's is cities. Youth's is youths. Hat is hate. a economic is an economic. Though is thought. Shape is condition. earth is Earth. 16 trillion is $16 trillion. (I seriously doubt this figure.)
Chicago's south side - the wild, wild side, where people are afraid to stop on a red light.
And Chicago's animals do not hibernate - that is probably just an average weekend.
saxon...
Nice to see you took a break from your Klan meeting to post on MSNBC.
Chicago has one of the most strict gun laws in the country. If you could have concealed carry there i would bet the gangbanger might think twice before shooting freely in this strict anti gun area.
Hmm, Mozzie. I didn't have a bit of trouble reading his post. I do have a problem with arrogant spell-checkers that feel the need to blast others.
Wow are you so right on that comment... If someone were to tell me you have to move to Chicago
or go to jail for a year... Hell I would take jail....safer.
I was going to leave a comment but I'm sure my spelling or punctuation would be corrected. Too bad one doesn't have the courtesy to comment on content rather than trying to be superior. Cheap shot in my book.
Where is the Mayor in all of this? I see that he did attend a Chicago Bulls game a few days ago. This is getting worse by the day and its been happening for months. Has he made a statement at all?
Doesn't matter how well any city applies gun control laws. We live in a capitalist society ruled by corporations and there is no way that any gun manufacturer is going to give up profits to make society a bit more peaceful. All kinds of weapons find their way into the hands of both law abiding and non-law abiding citizens 'cause manufacturers just keep them coming.
Mozzie- maybe you should invest in Midol.
While saxon did have a lot of spelling and grammar errors, the majority of us can understand the point s/he was trying to make.
If sutdeis cna prvoe taht oru barnis amek snese fo htsi, ew acn udnretsnad sxano.
Now get back under your bridge.
I've long said that we do have terrorists in the USA. We just call them gangs. And every time some white middle class person buys a prostitute or drugs, they are helping the terrorists.
Marie.................gun makers don't need to give up profits to make society safer. WE need to deal with criminals!!!!!!!!!!!
It's Spring and the saps are running! Shows you that everyone should be carrying a gun doesn't it?
I guess little kids in Chicago are important enough to warrant George Clooney's attention.
Okay. Pat, give us your plan for disarming the gang-bangers. Will you be here to help?
This is not a matter for gun control, its a matter of idiot control. Especially idiots who use murder as a sporting event or entertainment. Personally, I'd like to see anyone convicted of a drive-by shooting receive an automatic life without parole sentence.
Too bad the bullits didn't come out of the other end of the gun...
Christ. Typical response. Yes, despite the accuracy of said figures, let's just ignore the problem and deny it exists, while attacking anyone whom may address it. Perhaps you're the racist for assuming his post was racist in nature and not merely pointing out the problem.
Yiminy, has everyone in Chicago suddenly gone nuts? Sounds like it's time to send in the National Guard and apply a little justice here.
marv leit,
A little news for you. Chicago has some of the strictest "Gun Control" laws in the nation as do New York and DC. ANd where exactly have those laws gotten those particular cities? Answer, nowhere. Those cities still rank amongst the most dangerous in the nation on a consistent basis.
Perhaps one day all the "controllers" and the "big government should do" folks will open their eyes and realize that the only people that are hurt or disarmed by more regulation and greater control are the innocent bystanders in the "control" and "free" zones.
I know nothing about chicago, was that an unusual day?
I am sure that if it was not for the US invasion of Afghanistan, Afghanistan is much more peaceful than here. Let's deploy our troops to within this(US) war zone.
There is a whole new mentality out there with no respect for life and no understanding of the meaning of life. Most of these gang bangers don't expect to live past their teens anyway so they just live with a short fuse attitude. I'm not one for policing what people watch but between cop shows, superhero movies and Internet games, I think these things have affected people's sense of mortality.
@saxon
As long as they keep killing each other (roving gangs of minority youth's) and not innocents I say keep on keepin' on....load up the gats and go out hunting!
When the weather gets nice in Chicago.....the criminal element wanders out of the holes where they nest for the winter. This crap usually happens in mid May not March. See global weather change IS real.
America's inner-city is a war zone and a lost cause.
If there was oil to be had under America's inner-city.......America would have sent in the military and started a war there by now. No oil......no humanitarian crisis.....no problems.
Nah, I guess not. I just googled it, less than two per day on average. Ranked around thirtieth. Ole' new orleans was number one in 2009 with 51 per 100,000.
Disturbed Librarian
I have to agree. I guess they thought they just hit "Rewind" and everyone was OK.
Bully for you.
Chicago has about the strictest gun control in the country. Almost no one outside of a police officer cab even own a handgun in the city. Of course the gang bangers and criminals don't let the law get in their way.
We can put blame on manufacturers, other areas that legally sell guns, illegal sales, gun show etc. But the fact is that many millions of guns are out there. That is a fact that we are not reasonably ever change. So instead, we should be more focused on how we deal with the facts as they are.
When gang members and criminals are found with a gun in Chicago, they ought to throw the book at them, no deals. Anti-gang policing efforts need to be stepped up. Legal ownership and carry permits ought to be allowed in a regulated fashion including proper training. In the long run, this would have a positive effect, even though in the short term, some rise in incidents could possibly occur. There are already laws on the books against illegal possession and use of guns in crimes, but they are rarely enforced completely. Otherwise law abiding citizens may possess guns in areas like Chicago, but they risk criminal charges if they do. This is very unfair and probably leads to low enforcement and prosecution of possession laws. If there were an avenue for legal possession, I believe that illegal possession would be much easier to prosecute.
Guns of course are not for everyone, however law abiding citizens should have the choice to own one if they so desire. Some of the highest gun related crimes rates exist in areas with the strictest gun control while conversely, areas with less restrictions on law abiding citizens have far lower gun related crime rates. Although this doesn't tell the whole story, it does suggest that gun control laws are not very effective in impacting gun related crime.
Clearlythough, we need to look at how we deal with violent crime. We obviously don't have it right. There are plenty of contributing factors like poverty, drugs, poor family life, etc. These need to be looked at too as part of a preemptive effort to reduce violent crime. These things are interrelated. If we seriously declared a war on poverty, over a generation or two, many of the other issues would come into control too. Poverty is at the root of much of these problems. It doesn't pull the trigger, but it sets up a pathway that can ultimately end up there.
The cycle of gangs and gang violence must come to an end.
Most if not all gang bangers today are born into the gang . It is a vicious cycle and must be broken. What do they do with them selves ??? Easy , it's called knock out, jump in , drug sales , pimping , drive by's, rioting, and local war fair. Great life isn't it ?? If they go to prison -- guess what -- In their world they just went to college. Most come out with a P.H.D. in violence. Wish I knew what the solution is.
bob
What is most shocking about this is that these are humans doing this. If they were animals, we would hold a different train of thought, or if they were some type of monster...no, what hits us hardest is that these are humans doing inhuman things....
Lyrica #1.5
There you Libs go with trying to trump the constitution again, it is against the law for the USA to use military force on its people and it is sickening to me that 49 people agreed with you. That is why people keep acting this way we keep trying to take there rights away. Oh wait Obama already took that right away, proceed.
Round up the gang bangers..Load em' up with plenty of Ammo, and bring them to one of those deserted western towns from back in the gold rush days. Put em' in there with 2days of food and water, no vehicles..and let them all kill each other. At least there will be no innocent bystanders taken out.
Here we go folks! Of course though, this type of thing only happens in the inner-city and minority neighborhoods. The Anglos are so much more sophisticated, domesticated and segregated when it comes to violence.
Ain't this gangsta business cute? In Arizona we just call this kind of day Sunday. Guns for everybody! Woopee, we're all gonna die.
Ok who had the over/under being 50 shot this weekend........you just missed it by one.
Marv Liet:
Where've you been? Chicago has the strictest gun laws on the books and the police only go after those people that have guns legally. The people who have guns legally are the ones that can stop this madness by protecting themselves. Illinois is the last hold out for the Right to Carry for the honest citizen. All other states have it and their murder rates are going down fast.
All bad guys will go after an unarmed victim. Arm the good people of the state of Illinois and you will see the bad guys leave and go someplace that has easier pickings. The problem is for the bad guy - Illinois is about the last place they can go.
I have not read all the post. But could this be pay back ... Army Staff Sgt. killed 16 people...remember? I really hope not...See news of what happen in France?
Why is it that most of these shootings happen in the Swedish and Norwegian neighborhoods? Those people are like animals! (For those of you who think I'm serious, I'm being facetious in the interest of political correctness.)
Gosh, I'm glad we don't allow "Concealed Carry" in Illinois. Things could have gotten violent if any of those citizens were allowed to defend themselves.
Oh, and why didn't this get reported on the Channel 5 news at noon today, Monday? Is someone (news editor?) trying to make Hizzhonor Emannuel or the police chief look good?
The democrats sure know how to provide for the minorities, how sad they don't hold them responsible. I'm sure being a sanctuary city will not encourage bad behavior. One things for sure they will vote for them at 95%. WHY?
no jail or prison, or long trials. just shoot the gangsters in the back of the there heads. we dont waste tax payers money, and the streets will be safer! lol
Those strict guns laws are working well for Chicago residents.
Wow people die and politics prevail, I grew up in the late 80's early 90's. Crack wars and yes people got shot daily where I lived. I made it out educated myself, and never hit a Prison yard. And yet I was once a Gang banger youth who had no clue. Was it my parents fault NO. Was it societies fault No. It was my own ignorance. It was join or get jumped daily. The sad part was and still is dying for nothing. A false sense of pride.
Thankfully I had a Grandfather that pulled me out of it.Showed me what I could do and helped me get out. I got jumped out meaning beaten up worse than getting jumped in. Could I go back even 20 years later yup in a heart beat. Would I hell no I cannot see killing my own kind to further a racist agenda. This is not about minorities it is about all our youth. Even white kids are involved with Gangs I know White Crips and Bloods I know white kids in Hispanic gangs. I know there are white gangs. AKA biker clubs. So to assume this is a minority problem is asinine and ignorant. To assume this a inner city problem is even more ignorant.
it is an American problem always has been . The only difference is today its faster. Meaning your kids can be involved before you even think it. The only reason I am not ashamed of ever being in a gang is it taught me to respect human life to many die for nothing. And even an enemy deserves a shot a happiness. Even a loser can become a hero. And even a thug can learn to give instead of take.
Religious self righteous people are afraid of going to hell. Spiritual people have been there and back. Does a gang banger scare me. Nope does a racist scare me Nope. Does becoming the monster I was scare me oh hell yeah.
For those that are not from Chicago, there is a law there that if you are traveling with more than 3 people and are stopped by the police you can be arrested for mob action. They do classify gang activity as terrorism. I think that it is terrible that so many people either lost their life or became a survivor of a shooting in just a few days. Like most big cities you have big crime rates, and you can't honestly say you didn't know this was coming along with the heat. Every year as soon as it is nice out the crime rate almost triple, especially in Chicago. I grew up there but as soon as I had my children I decided to leave for that exact reason.
and all of those illegal immigrants are certainly making Chicago a nicer, safer place to live
Stop making and buying guns. Guns are made to kill--it's their purpose. When I read the comparisons about cars killing people, I ask: Is that the sole purpose of a vehicle? We have almost as many guns as we have people and they are the most convenient way to settle a score. I despise guns and the shills for continued relaxed laws of ownership of handguns and semi-automatic guns. This post will be collapsed quickly by the NRA and gun makers shills.
Maybe George Clooney will help..Or is he not worried about our country" the one's who make him rich.
Doesn't matter how many regulations a State passes on gun control. The "criminals" will find a way to obtain weapons...PERIOD !
Our State legislators need to pass stricter laws governing use of weapons when committing violent crimes and the "courts" need to provide MAXIMUM penalties to those who are found guilty of carrying out the crimes.
A slap on the wrist is NOT GOING TO WORK.
America, you reap what you sow!
Bill~
First, I would worry less about 'people like me' who want harsher penalties on people who go around murdering innocent people, and concern yourself more with figuring out what a liberal is. If you're calling me one, you have no idea. Second, gangs don't typically act this way because someone is taking away their constitutional rights, you really think that's what's on their mind? "Someone tread on my rights so I will go around murdering random people who have NO idea what I'm fighting against" Really? Not everyone who disagrees with you is a liberal or even has a certain political affiliation...if you assume that you look ignorant.
I'm sure this will get blamed on Bush, just like everything else has in the last 3 years.
The continual assault to provoke terror on unarmed citizens is no different than what is perpetrated by terrorists These gangs should be considered to be to re defined as terrorist groups and should be dealt with in the same manner. As with any other terrorist group, there is a leader, who for all practical purposes is no different than the head of any other terrorist organization. They should be dealt with accordingly. I'm sure that it would not be as difficult as it was to root out the leaders of international organizations, to find and terminate these leaders. Isn't that what we did to Bin Laden and those who tried to fill his vacancy once he was eliminated? This needs to be dealt with in the same manner. As far as I am concerned as in any other war, the way to break down the enemy is to take out their leader and those who follow to attempt to maintain the structure of the group who by acts of terror attempt to intimidate and control or rule areas within the United States. I would rather see a headline stating that our Seal Team killed the leader(s) of an active gang, than another 6 year old girl was fatally shot in a drive by shooting.
i think its about time we fought back, if the gangs can shoot up our homes we can shoot them up, you see some pimps shoot them, you see a drug deal going down shoot them, you see a group of thugs wearing their colors or tats shoot them, if any thugs walk up to you or someone else and threaten them about the color of clothing their wearing shoot them. same goes to you as well officers of the law stop being lenient we need to scrub our cities of this trash and filth called crime. no weapon ban will stop them they don't follow the laws, what we need is laws allowing us to defend our homes and around our homes as well and not just from our own property, we need laws protecting the citizens who pay their taxes from being in legal trouble if they try to stop a major problem and we need city based castle laws as well and laws to allow law abiding citizens to fight back and take their neighborhoods back as well. when you cant feel safe in your own home or even walking down the street you know its time to make or take action, any way that works, take action! if you feel the same way as i do send this to your governor, head of state, president, etc. and the more we send them the more likely they are to do something about it! majority rules.
Oops, Mozzie, you missed one: they also should have said "worse" instead of "worst" in the context it happened to be used. I agree with you. People will go farther in life if they are more articulate. Examples abound. And just because I can read a bunch of jumbled up letters because they happen to be grouped by word, doesn't mean everyone should type that way. An entire generation of kids using "text speak" will not know how to spell the simplest words trying to get everything within 160 characters. Dyslexia is a wonderful thing sometimes because it allows me to read stuff most people can't. Upside down, backwards, etc. That doesn't mean I believe people should do that just because I can read it, it should be legible to everyone.
1newday Your last paragraph says it all.
If that girl had been allowed to carry her own hand gun......
Then, yet another handgun would be on the streets, killing children.
It's time to change the Constitution to outlaw handguns.
Handguns have one purpose, to kill a person.
First off, my condolences to the families who have lost loved ones during this carnage.
Secondly, some have already brought up the facts that Chit-cago already has some of the toughest ANTI-gun laws on the book. So much for their effectiveness. "Like shootin' fish in a barrel..." It also appears that they also have some of the weakest capital crimes laws as well. EVERY gang-banger who either admits to, or is caught in the act of, taking a life without self defense being an affirmative defense, should be executed IMMEDIATELY, and without remorse. EVERY "law" that limits or infringes on either and/or both State and federal Constitutional RIGHTS to possess and carry a gun, without limitation (incl. CCW), should be either wiped from the books, or flat out ignored. They may be legal, but they are certainly not lawful. Anti-gun laws have effectively made it so that criminals appear to have more guns rights than We the People...
{Sandtrich, Dirp101 and the lot of you, "good slave" or "conquered nation"? [Rhetorical.] You have pitiful arguments.}
To all the people who are saying immediate execution Really? So lets say your kid or cousin or brother or sister. Gets pointed at. They DID IT. And they then have no defense Public pretender defense. They should be executed. do you know how many people are actually GANG affiliated? Almost every citizen in our Nation. If you know someone under the age of 30 your affiliated. Period.. Think about it. that person you work with might have a son in a gang and not even know it.
Tolerance is not the answer Gangs have been around since the civil war. The Jesse James Gang the Dalton Gang are just two. And we as a society celebrate them. there is no difference between them and the gangs now. Terror is terror no matter the cause or color of ones skin. Even the Blue Badge is considered a Gang by some. Cops people have a code as well.
Intervention and education by any means is the answer. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES US GREAT NATION IS THE RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL
And to bolster your defense you evoke the name of a slave owner. Great call, Einstein. Why don't you mention that he was an atheist or deist? Would that not fit with the "god fearing, gun toting" image that you wish to portray?
I also missed "Trumps prediction's" (Trump's predictions). I was just tryin' to help the fella out, but some people saw it as criticism. Unfortunately, he needs a lot of help.
mozzie-600 -- Thank you, thank you, thank you! One question, shouldn't it be worse shape?
You misinterpreted my comments. Not everyone is as sarcastic as you.
They are humans doing human things, has been this way for as long as humans have been on the planet,the only thing different is the weapons of choice.
You are correct. "Worse" is the proper term, since the comparison is supposedly between no more than two (items).
If they would bring back public hanging in the town square maybe if would deter some of this crap, let people see what awaits criminal behavor.
We're $16T in debt and all the right wants to talk about is the need for war, increase defense spending, and ways to cling to the old ways, (including the overpopulation of guns.) Why not drop the hate and move toward a progressive agenda. Should we spend precious resources to spy on our own people, borrow money to give away in the form of aid, Why don't we cut that bloated sacred cow of a defense budget, park 10 of the 12 aircraft carriers and live in peace?
Your comments are completely accurate, and probably were collapsed by the NRA cardholders.
Are you running for office? I'd like to vote for you.
Not so much inadequate, but more along the lines of misplaced priorities. You see, you can't write a ticket and collect a fine for murder...
But what they do have in Chicago is a camera at just about every single intersection in Chicago - so if the animals who did this just 'happen' to run a yellow light... then they're REALLY going to be in for it.
30 murders in one weekend... but thanks be unto GOD that no one ever runs a red light in that city and gets away with it!
I swear, If I were part of local law enforcement in Chicago I'd resign in utter shame.
This thread says a lot about this tragedy.People can't put their differences aside long enough to teach our children an alternative to violence and then you come on here behaving quite like these kids and you wonder where they get it. I was a pest control technician before being injured and I remember one kid I talked to and I will always remember what this young man said to me. He said I don't think I will be alive next year so why should I care what happens in my neighborhood. This was a 19 year old that didn't expect to see 20. The sad truth is he was probably right and thanks for showing me why he had no hope. No one showed him any reason to have hope. You slam the door in a kids face when he reaches out and you are not sure how to solve this problem in any way that doesn't involve hanging or shooting or some other vile form of killing them. Wow that is the closest I think I have ever been to pure stupidity on this vine today. We are the problem. What are WE going to do? Yea that's what I thought. Point fingers and make more heartless comments that's helping. Keep it up. Psssshhhttt
As Ol' Clint Eastwood would say" HANG 'EM HIGH"
@Mark-1952371- more completely asinine logic. I live in Dallas where everyone has a damn gun. In Dallas we have very liberal gun laws, such as being able to have license to carry a concealed handgun (getting a CHL only costs about $250 for training and everyone pretty much can get them quickly) (), and the Castle Doctrine (which means you can shoot people OUTSIDE your home if you feel they are threatening your property), yet we have some of the highest murder rates by guns in the country () (). Guns are absolutely no defense against a random and rapid attack. What, you don't think every gangbanger out there doesn't think the other gangbangers have guns? Of course they know that... Jesus think man.
Every city and town needs a dueling area legalized dueling and fist fighting,Its time to accept that people will fight no matter what the laws say and we need to teach how it is done honorably.You make a challenge that challenge is accepted or declined. You set a date to meet on the field of honor.They will fight with the weapons of their choice guns,knives,fists,or clubs.There will be no innocent bystanders injured.you'll be able to walk down the street without getting caught in the crossfire.No more three on one beat downs.You can't show these people how cowardly drivebys, dry gulching,and ganging up on someone is without showing them how to fight honorably.
Joeyfromcali #1.48, Excellent post. Thank you for a little perspective.
This kind of thing is a daily occurrence in most major cities, and while I hate to say this, most of the gang violence reported here is coming from ethnic gangs. I don't know how many shootings occur in Philadelphia and the surrounding cities every day, but there are a lot, and the culprits seem to be getting younger, as in teenagers- We have a lot of gang activity in the east coast, the latin kings, bloods and crips, mexican mafia, the white shirts, hell I remember when we had MOVE members in Philadelphia try to set the city on fire years ago. These teen gangbangers will beat you to death if they think they can steal a dime from you or just for kicks and they have no problem shooting you point blank. I moved from a dominican neighborhood in NYC, where gun fights in the streets in the middle of the day happened frequently, the gangbangers would drive down the main street and just shoot out car windows for fun and you knew who belonged to what gang by the colors they wore, the jewelry they had around their necks, tattoo's, and if they owned fighting dogs they'd walk the trophy winner down the street with a trophy around its neck. The teen gangs would beat up people with baseball bats, I witnessed two of them myself and had to call 911. Kept the police busy 24/7 there. Its a very sad way of life if you ask me. Around here its said you don't walk outside at night unless you are packing heat, because its likely everyone out on the streets hanging out is also packing. These people are the ones making a name for themselves. Not the people that try to live life the right way, or the victims who most of the time don't even know the shooter.
Nope ernestito, dallas murder rate the last year I found was 12.47 per 100,000 chicago was 16.
joeyfromcali: I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at... I'm under 30 and am definitely not affiliated with any gang. Neither are ANY of the other under-30-year-olds that I associate myself with. Period.
Sing it sandtrich,
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.
While we throw about a hundred million overpaid expensive US Citizens on Unemployment as employed by the US Military and US Military Defense Industrial Complex (originally established by President FDR to get the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression 1939).
How many Made In China Apple iPads would you have to sell to equal just one Made In US F-15 sold to US Ally Saudi Arabia? How many US Jobs are you NOT considering? President FDR figured out that US Consumerism would NEVER get the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression, and it will not get the US out of the current $60-$100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" either.
sandtrich and President Obama's Staffers that wrote his 2012 State of the Union Address need to learn how to count first (numbers of USN Aircraft Carriers).
So what did YOU do? Did you attempt to get him away from the Gangs? Did you adopt him? Or did YOU just slam the door in his face?
YOU are the problem, saying academic idealistic baloney and NO Actions with Real Results.
I can't figure out your deal. As a paid poster you should know that the folks are tired of money being spent on a defense that is 7 times larger than China's and 12 times larger than Russia's. Yep--we spend about as much as the balance of the world combined. You have to dredge back through history to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and Hawaii was a US territory then to find us under attack. No country has attacked the US, but the US has been the aggressor in Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Now, the Military Industrial Complex, (your master), wants a piece of Iran. We won't jump into Syria because we've been too cozy with their dictator, al-Assad.
Just sick of the waste of taxpayer's money being used to bomb--then rebuild. Karzai "looses" a couple Billion USD--and we replace it. Israel wants at attack Iran and wants additional weaponry from the US.
Any lucid mammal would realize that the US is dependent on wars and defense contractors to keep a large sector of otherwise useless mammals--the employees of these companies that develop ways to kill people faster and with a bigger bang.
Stop wagging the dog, bro.
We need to double our defense spending.
Sandtrich: Jefferson was a Deist... And so am I. So screw that god fearing crap. I'm much more likely to believe in Ancient Astronaut Theory than the highly exaggerated myth's and legends of old. It at least holds some water... And as far as the slavery goes, at least we've moved away from that garbage.
The sad thing is that people like you keep erroneously stating that guns are so evil and bad. A gun is nothing more than a friggin' tool. The weapon part is between your ears! And I'ld rather have THAT tool to defend me and mine, because it IS designed to kill!
Also, keep in mind that here in Ohio we just had that mass stabbing in the capital city. He said he would have gotten more if he'ld have had the chance! Does that we now need to institute "Knife Control"? The biggest facts are quite clear to most. EVERY place that has the strictest gun control laws always has highest crime because the criminals don't give a rat's ass about the laws! Crime doesn't vanish because the criminal doesn't vanish. So we either make the law abiding citizens into sitting ducks like in NYC, Chicago and the like, or the law abiding citizen says screw the law and protects themselves anyways. Laws will NEVER fix the root of the problem. Bad people will do bad things with whatever implement is handy. PERIOD.
Now when it comes to your take on war, as in #1.85, I'm in full agreement with you because the facts are there to support it. I even remember in an article from early December where China warned the US not to get involved in Iran because they would be more than happy to start WWIII.
Goodnight...
Sandtrich (#1.85): No country has attacked us since the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? Have you forgotten about 9/11?!
I do agree that the US is the aggressor in most instances, however. We take it upon ourselves to be in everybody's business, the world's regulator, and then wonder why everyone hates us.
stinkin bull farted banned. This is your first comment and it's terrible.
I just spit coffee out my nose.lol
Wondered how long that would take, and the response is pretty funny.
But lets not even talk about gun control!
Chicago has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation and IL is the only state that doesnt allow concealed carry. Yet they still have high gun crime? Wow what a shocker, maybe the police should hold another gun buyback.
Hopefully this is the climax for the crime down there for this year..
What do you mean. Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the county. This has nothing to do with gun control it has everything to do with animal control.
I thought Chicago had one of the strictest gun control laws? I'm confused. Though I haven't checked the temperature in Chicago, I am thinking it is starting to warm up there and folks are starting to slowly come out and wander about. I don't know why this article was written because this happens every single year when it starts to warm up. Chicago is a wonderful city with its museums and restaurants, but so many of the people are nothing short of wild animals that should either be tamed or killed on the spot!!! In addition to the brutal winters there, the heathen mentality of some Chicagoans make me loath and detest that gray depressing city!! Gotham city.......
Chicago has very strict gun "control", but it hasn't worked at all.
Pandy- as with most gun control laws- they do- but it only hinders or costs a law abiding citizen more, not criminals as they can and do get get guns. Such a shame. I love my city, I hate the guns committed within. Dear Chicago righties, let us conceal and carry. NOW. If they can, I want too. I want to be able to protect myself and mine.
Laws and gun control don't mean $hit to these barbarians. They have no respect for life. All they care about is their turf, their drugs, and their money. May God have mercy on their ungreatful souls.
Gun control, (as the Brits found out) means only the thugs and trash have guns.
Law abiding citizens become victims with no way to defend themselves.
For the record, you can conceal and carry in IL now, you just have to take the 6 hr class and have a valid FOID
You can control the gun, but you can't control the idiots. Sounds about right for gun control.
You're absolutely right Jack.....we should talk gun control. How dare these Glocks and Brownings drive around the city and shoot people! Damn guns!!! I say we take away the driver's licenses from these vicious weapons. Yeah....that's the ticket. No more driving for guns. No doubt it will work as well as the other gun control laws that are out there.
Sorry Jack......some backward people might say you're "off"... Jack.
Chicago has some of the strictist gun control laws in the nation. doesn't seem to have benefitted anyone but the criminals.
That said, are all these incidents connected to 2 teens in a truck? Without having shot anyone, there were enough laws broken to put both away for a long time.
Maybe, just maybe, we should focus on those who committed these acts rather than the tool used?
By the logic of gun control fanatics, it was the planes that attacked the WTC, not a band of religious loonies. Boeing and Lockheed need to be held accountable.
Japanese planes attacked Pearl Harbor, not the pilots of those planes, nor the Japanese Navy, nor the Imperial government.
And how will the libs react if the last name given for the 18 year old proves to be that of someone who is not in this country legally? Racial profiling make him a victim rather than a culprit?
Geez those of you that cry out "gun control" on every violent occasion really need to leave your Washington DC Gang for a moment and get a grip. Are you really that ignorant to think that a pen writing on a piece of paper that it will be illegal to have 1 of these, will really make a difference? Wake up! or maybe even better for the rest of us, take a LLLOOONNNGGG nap and don't wake up. Maybe then our country can get back on the common sense path
Just like in Mexico, gun control isn't going to effect any criminals, just law abiding citizens. Why do liberals always seem to take a stance that does the most to harm the average law abiding person while doing the least to address the actual problem?
really!?!?!?
Uhmmm... excuse me, but legislation has passed the House, but is NOT law.
Maybe you should check your facts BEFORE you waste your time posting drivel.
stoner, because its easier. Would you fight someone that can beat the crap out of you, or someone who you think you have a shot at?
I have a FOID card, there is no concealed carry in illinois. Some owners believe in a loophole in the law that allows you to carry a disassembled gun within a case. The law is intended for entering and exiting the range. Most officers will still arrest you and charge you with breaking the law, but you may be able to fight it in court.
As for Chicago having some of the strictest gun laws in the country and in need of more... Chicago has THE strictest gun laws in the country. In fact, the supreme court had to step in to allow us simply to own guns in our homes. The interesting thing is how Chicago is still able to make it prohibitively difficult to own and possess.
In order to legally possess a firearm in Chicago, it must be registered in Chicago, but the city will not register any guns in Chicago that are owned illegally. I.E. if you have a gun in Chicago to be registered, it is deemed unregisterable as it is possessed in the city illegally because it is unregistered.
Armed criminals + unarmed law abiding citizens = high murder rates.
You can legally own a gun in Chicago, it doesn't mean it will save you or your family. Want to know why?
Because we have over 100,000 ganbangers in the city and under 9,000 police officers with the police force declining monthly (retiring) and no new hires. The gangbangers have free reign and will shoot into your house, while you walk down the street, or are driving in your car, as proven by the above article.
By the time you fire back or someone comes to your aid, you will have either been wounded or the gangbangers are long gone and will try again at a later time because they can.
Chicago DOESN'T have strict gun control, idiot. Remember the SCOTUS struck down their gun control laws. And trying to control guns in the US is worthless since there are 250 million guns. It's like trying to keep water out of a canoe in the ocean. The only solution is to make the US like a civilized country and repeal the worthless 2nd amendment.
California has high crime as well and strict as hell gun control to bad the only control they do have is citizens 8(
The criminals do not give a @!$%# about gun control laws..
Guns are smuggled from Mexico to the US and all the gangstars are packing heat...
Repeal the 2nd amendment Bob? Ummmm let me think about that for a sec, HELL NO Bob!! Bob, take a time machine back to Nazi Germany and enjoy yourself, have fun.
"I would rather live in dangerous freedom instead of peaceful slavery" -Thomas Jefferson
Say, Bob-100 etc; the worthless 2nd Amendment? I'd say your silly opinion is by far more worthless! You obviously have done little research on "civilized countries"
"The only solution is to make the US like a civilized country and repeal the worthless 2nd amendment."
You sound pissed off at the founding fathers bob, are you british? Let's repeal the First amendment as well while we're at it, I'm tired of stupid people having the right to speak. Also, which civilized country do you want the US to model after? China? They were the first civilized country in history. Their citizens are non-violent. You don't get to over a 1 billion people by being uncivilized right?
Gun control to me is the ability to hit the intended target. Most gang related shootings end up killing innocent bystanders because these animals can't shoot straight. If they were just killing themselves I would consider that a fair deal.
How many are aware the Mexican drug cartels are present in the inner city gangs in over 300 US cities !
Thank you DHS and Ice and in particular, those espousing open borders
its not gun control.
though I am not a fan of guns or gun liberty.
This is a systemic problem. This is a problem that has been inherited from a broken family structure. It is a problem of hopelessness. It is not a problem of race. Not of culture. All races, cultures and nations have these same issues in areas where the same problems exist. It just so happens that in America cheap guns and a violent machismo culture make the use of guns the weapon of choice. In other cultures they use knives, sticks or fists.
Gun laws on either side of the issue would have not changed what this article is about. The founding fathers placed the second amendment in so states could form militias to protect against tyranny ( by the fed army). They did not want to see every moron in this country walking around with a gun on their hip. I will take my chances with the criminals having illegal guns, it has alot to do with staying where you belong. Its the law abiding citizens walking around with a hidden gun that scares me. The general public is not smart enough to know when to use it.
I noticed amongst all those killings and woundings not one person, not a single one, used a car as the weapon? Odd?
Nobody is talking gun control because this isn't a gun control issue. It's a crime issue. It's a social and cultural issue.
Rational, educated people seek to understand the cause, rather than take the reactionary, emotional, easy road the irrational do of blaming the inanimate object.
Which are you?
It is not about gun control, it is about gang control. We need the Federal Govt (Homeland Security/FBI) to declare the local gang bangers as a terrorist group. How many people in our large metro areas live in fear that they won't be attacked, randomly shot at or harassed by members of a gang? It is time to declare they are terrorists if they display gang signs/colors round them up and ship them over to Gitmo or out to Phoenix in the tent city jail. Put them all in one place let them kill each other and leave the 6 year old kids alone so they can play in their front yard.
I am making fun of the analogy that a car and a gun are the same. I can rationally see that they are not. Can you? Did you read the same article, no one in the article above was wounded by a spoon, or a car, or a bat yet out trots the inanimate object argument as though magically something else caused the violence above. What ever the solution is, there is no point ignoring one of, if not the issue.
If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.
bob,
"Chicago DOESN'T have strict gun control, idiot. Remember the SCOTUS struck down their gun control laws. And trying to control guns in the US is worthless since there are 250 million guns. It's like trying to keep water out of a canoe in the ocean. The only solution is to make the US like a civilized country and repeal the worthless 2nd amendment."
That has to be the most ignorant statement I have ever read. Just look up the history of Germany to see the results of that decision. Use you brain for something besides keeping your ears apart. While you are at it look at the protection afforded your freedoms by the greatest document in world history...the United States Constitution. In every part of history citizens become slaves by government without limits and restrictions...gun ownership keeps governments honest.
Another individual with no comprehension.
In my town we have never had a car jacking...every other pickup has a gun rack with a rifle in place...no gang banger would even dare try to jack your car here...I do not own a gun by the way and feel completely safe in this part of the country. Chicago reaps what it sows.
Phil 673730, What did the Brits find out? How often has this happened in Britain? It is a way of life here. If Britain legalized guns, they would have a similar body count to the USA (30000 per annum). You may be able to decieve some by putting a spin on events that happen rarely in other Western countries, so that you can feel like you are justifying this crazy situation. To everyone else, how can you have gun control in a country that has millions of guns in circulation?
Many have commented that Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the Nation. They don't sound that strict to me. At least you can actually have guns, they aren't banned like in other states.
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/illinois.aspx
Where ever it is tried the "general public" does very well with concealed carry. Crime goes down and people are safer. Sure beats the stupid gun control argument!!
For all those who say we need more gun control.. Hello we have adequate GUN Control.. Reality is we do not have human or people control. Criminals do not follow the law.. So the gun control you speak about is disarming the "legal" and "law abiding" gun owners. People Kill, not the weapons of choice, they are a tool. We need tighter laws earlier in life when kids, adults start breakingt hese laws.. Stop the hand slapping and start making the criminal accountable the 1st offense not the 2nd or 5th or so on..btw.. Prison isn't making anyone accountable... That system is broken. Get real it's the people, not the weapon, you/we need to control.
mochabeans..........NEWSFLASH!! the inanimate object DIDN'T do anything, a dumbass holding it DID!!!!
Bob;
"The only solution is to repeal the second amendment". A truly moronic statement. And how pray tell, do you suppose to keep the rest of your rights? Have you ever read the Constitution and bill of rights? Do you have more than a socialist disdain for these documents? "Those that would beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not" Thomas Jefferson. "A government large enough to give you all you need, is large enough to take all that you have" Benjamin Franklin. "Nothing improves the disposition of a scoundrel quite like hanging him" Thomas Jefferson"
At what point don't you get laws only apply to those who choose to follow them? Those who don't will always get guns. Just like those who want drugs will get them. I would like to remind you, 84,898,899 responsible-law abiding gun owners killed no one yesterday. You can look this up, IF you can tear yourself away from blaming the devise for the problem, Currently in the U.S. there are, counting all Federal, State, County, Municipal and the District of Columbia, 27,734 gun regulation laws and statutes in effect. A felon in possession of a firearms has been a felony with a 10 year prison sentence since 1934, when the National firearms act went into effect. No crime on top of the possession, mere possession. Why are these laws not being enforced?, is the question you should be asking.
Why don't you do a little independent unbiased research, if you can think beyond your programming, and see the true reason for gun violence. WHERE this is taking place and why. You can rely on 911 if you wish, which is state sponsored "dial a prayer", in my opinion. Those minutes that pass as your home is invaded and you wait for the police to respond will seem long indeed. For my part, I'll deal with the home invader in a more permanent way, with my .45 auto.
Prohibition didn't work with alcohol in the 1930's. It did however, make mobsters and the Kennedy's rich, Joseph Kennedy made his millions running liquor into the states from Canada. The black market gun trade is far more complex than the 1930's whiskey runner ever were. Contrary to what the media tells you, guns pour across the border from Mexico to the gangs and other criminals. Illegal guns is one of the main financial resources, behind drugs for the cartels. Many of these guns were sold legally to the Mexican government and then, handed out to their friends and family members running the cartels. The Mexican government and the Cartels have been doing business for decades.
Take off the rose colored blinders and see the world for what it is, not what your anti-gun handlers would have you believe.
usa1967, nice well rehearsed, stock answer. Now apply the same logic to inanimate nuclear weapons and the countries that want them.
Dave:
I'm thinking I read the accidental gun related deaths in America is 0.19 per 100,000 per year. Or for 350 million people it comes to 665.
The intentional gun related killing is about 4 per 100,000 which is about 14,000 and declining. The more people with the Right to Carry, means the more the bad guys are shying away from the areas where people will shoot back.
God bless the abiltiy to cling to our guns and religion!!
In urban America it is all in the name of religion, the religion of the Gang. I don't see much difference between the USA gang and the religious fanatics of the Middle East. Both operate at about the same level...
Not going to happen. Why do you think "Organized Crime" hires more "Non Adults" (Teens) as "Hitmen".
Then there are going to be the Liberal Judges that will Blame Society like the Academic Idealism of:
Funny TB - Texas how you don't see the most Economically disadvantaged, the Homeless US Military Veterans doing this.
Nice Ad Homin Attack, calling everyone that believes that this a gun control issue, irrational and uneducated. (Extreme Sarcasm) Your Academic (educated) Idealism Really belongs in the Real World Life Or Death School of Hard Knocks.
Tell them the real reason. The Police are afraid of being Prosecuted, Ending up in Prison to be someone's B!tchfor any potential (Guilty until proven innocent) wrongful shootings, aggregated assaults, etc.. The Law Enforcement (Police) Unions have as much stated that, as to why they are not too happy due to the decreases in their Union Dues (the Union Bosses Paychecks).
Try again. The US Supreme Court based on the Historical Perspective declared the D.C. Anti Gun Laws Unconstitutional due to the Fact that the Founding Fathers KNEW the difference between Individual Gun Ownership and the Weapons of the Colonist's Militias.
As even before the start of the "War at the Colonies", "War of Independence", "American Revolution" British General Cornwallis and Henry Clinton (ancestor of Bill) seized the Armories of the Colonist's Militias. This forced the disarmed Colonist's Militias (Uniforms, Napoleonic Conventional Warfare (stand in rows on the battlefield)) to flee with the Founding Fathers from the British Regulars (Military), Bounty Hunters, British Loyalists, etc. (gave a whole new meaning to failure as not an option, as if caught hanged by the neck until dead as "Traitors to the Crown" (British King), also known as "High Treason".). AFTER the Colonist's Militias fled with the Founding Fathers to the "Hot Bed" of the Revolution, Philadelphia; the British Military Governments of General Cornwallis and Henry Clinton attempted to limit Gun Ownership to "Squirrel Guns" (Muskets, no Rifles allowed) and Blunderbusses (shotguns). The Rich Founding Fathers refused to pay the British "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" to pay for the British Military Protections, expansion of the Colonies using the British Military, the Debt of the British for the Napoleonic Wars, the other Colonies of the Great British Empire and started "Taxation without Representation" ("American Colonists paying to be oppressed by the British Military", "Boston Tea Party", "Revenues Collected from the American Colonists used for everything other than the American Colonies", "Tyrant King George", etc.). INDIVIDUALS started to "take up Arms" against the Oppression of the British, these Individuals without Uniforms formal training became the "Minutemen", "Patriots of the Revolution", the British names for them the "Colonist Rabble", "Rebellious Upstarts"; these INDIVIDUALS using the First Successful Example of US Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency Warfare) hold off the British Regulars (Military), British Mercenaries, etc. until the Founding Fathers stop arguing and found the First Continental Army (Federal Colonist Army) to fight the British Army "Regulars".
robiscoole, I see that the Academic Idealistic Failed US Education System is still emphasing Social Cultural Awareness Courses and eliminating the History, Reading, Mathematics, Science Classes to pay for the Social Cultural Awareness Classes. Kind of embarrassing to me, since my second career after previously retiring from the US Military was Teaching (mostly inner city schools), so in a way I guess being recalled to Active Duty over and over again is kind of good since I did not have to get pissed at the decline and failure of the US Education System.
So did the Government of Chicago get thrown in a Federal Penitentiary for not changing the Chicago Anti Gun Laws and not adhering to the US Supreme Court Ruling.
Dave;
Same principle applies. Treaties, bans and laws only work if all parties agree. Those who do not, like N Korea, Iran, and others will seek them in the face of the law. The difference is to enforce these "laws" will likely require a war. And just for clarification, the U.S. nuclear arsenal has sat quietly in the silo's since 1945. We haven't done a nuclear test since the sixties. We follow the test bans and other non-proliferation treaties we signed, while others have done the opposite.
The devise is not the problem, it is the intent of the operator. A gun is a mere mechanical devise, it is not endowed with any sort of independent means of doing anything. It requires an operator to cause any harm. The automobile remains the number one cause of death and disfigurement in the U.S. for those from 0 to 40 years old. Killing far more per year than guns or nuclear weapons. Where is the righteous indignation to ban the automobile? Same thing, a mechanical devise. 99.23% of all car crashes come back to operator failure. The remaining .77% is mechanical failure. So it's the cars fault? Following that logic then, pencils are the cause of misspelled words. Place the blame where it belongs, with people who little regard for their fellow man, not the devise. A person can be killed as easily with a pipe, arrow, ball bat, knife or many other weapons. It is not the devise, it's the human, using the term loosely for some of these animals. Wake up.
@bob-1008224
Actually, they do. They dont have conceal carry, they require registration and waiting periods. SCOTUS struck down the handgun ban (as it did in DC as well) but they have extreme requirements for owning a handgun, and you still cant legally carry it.
Repealing the 2A will do nothing other than piss a bunch of law abiding citizens off, but its not like the 2A could be repealed, it could never get enough support. American is saturated with guns, and that is how it is. There is no changing it, so live to deal with it.
84,898,899 Responsible - legal gun owners killed no one yesterday, today and aren't likely to tomorrow.
27,734 U.S. gun laws currently in effect were largely unenforced yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Criminals committed 100% of gun crimes yesterday, today and tomorrow.
The court system continues to not enforce gun laws and the anti-gun crowd calls for more laws.
Laws only apply to those who choose to follow them, criminals choose not to, hence the term criminal.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
There are none so ignorant as those who will not think or choose to ignore the truth.
Sucks to be one of them.
Very sad to read about these senseless murders. It's ironic that Illinois is the last state to allow citizines to carry guns in public. Perhaps if the 2nd ammendmend was available to law abiding citizens, maybe lives could of been saved.
Hello, we DO NOT have adequate gun control, AMY.
Let me ask this question...
If it were Anthrax, instead of guns, will your argument still make sense to you?
How about grenades?
How about Nuclear bombs?
Any of these just "TOOLS?"
You go back and study just how many "Law abiding" citizens became Criminals after they took innocent lives with guns. My belief is that you'll find that MOST were law-abiding citizens before they used a gun to commit a crime.
I bet you'll find that most of the crimes of passion were created by previously "law abiding citizens" who, due to ready access to handguns, didn't have to think much to figure out an easy way to exact their revenge.
I bet, you'l find that, like in the case of the Virgina tech shooter, the ability to walk into a store and load up on guns and ammo made committing the heinous crime of mass murder more palatable and doable.
And, yet, you folks think that we should make it easy for them.
You think that turning this country into Somalia or pre Balkans war Serbia is the answer. Ludicrous.
If everyone had Anthrax powder, more people will die of Anthrax. Period.
And the stupidest argument is the Conceal and Carry one.
The thought that everyone might be secretly armed will only lead to more Shoot First, ask questions later incidents. Now, the criminal that thinks you might be armed will just shoot your dumb ass and then rob you. No more, "Stick 'em up," anymore. If the murderer thinks that everyone in the crowd is packing, explosions become the weapon of choice.
Dumb as all heck.
You people are responsible for this madness.
Racial profiling.
Defunding of education and after school programs.
Job discrimination and the lack of opportunity that follows.
The war on drugs.
The attack on Unions and minimum wage.
The Prison/Industrial complex.
Stop supporting these idiotic things.
Have a nice day.
You got the part about breeding correct. That is what minorites do. They breed because that is the only thing they are smart enough to do. The world is over populated because of minorites, white trash, and religious freaks not knowing when to stop popping out babies. Then cram the minorities in tight places like the cities and they start killing each other. Fence off the cities and don't open the gate until there is only one left to let out.
pandy: I'm confused. In one sentence you said that Chicago is a wonderful city, and then in the next you said that you "...loathe and detest that gray depressing city." So, which one is it?
Maybe they should move to Kabul. Seems like a much safer place.
Ban handguns.
Takebaka,
No! We all know very well that if that 6-year old had a gun, this wouldn't have happened!!!
Sieg Heil!
Mein Führer says we will protect you and that you do not need any handguns. Our cameras will be watching everyone for any misdeeds, so there will be no more crime. You can trust us!
Now report to the bath house for your shower...
My sympathy to all those families that lost someone to this senseless violence! It sure looks like Chicago's gun laws are really making the city safe. The city fathers refused to allow people tohave concealed carry rights and now all of this. No one is supposed to have a gun in the city limits. Only the honest, lawabiding citizens don't have a gun. Only the thugs and gang-bangers do and well, the police! When are people going to understand that gun control doesn't work? Thugs and gang-bangers and other assorted criminals aren't going to abide by any laws! Laws only affect the law-abiding! People control is what is needed. Punsihment should be made to fit the crime and yet liberal judges keep slapping these thugs on the wrist and blaming someone else for their behavior. It all comes down to personal responsibility! Red
I'm sure if the 6 year old girl had been allowed to carry a gun she wouldn't have been killed. I'm tired of hearing the same old argument about how if we had effective gun control only the criminals would have guns. If we had truly effective handgun control how would the criminals obtain them, make them themselves?
some guy, what is effective handgun control? Is it to precisely hit your mark with a handgun, then yes, if that was the case the girl would never have been hit. But thugs will never have gun control, they even shoot it sideways and think its cool. May be they were trying out the curve shot or the 360 shot. If Angelina Jolie can do it, anyone can, now thats gun control.
How would they obtain them? Really? Well let's see:
Mexican cartel
African arms dealers
CIA/DEA/FBI/Customs (yes I'm saying our own govt will be profiting (just like drugs) on selling these to the citizens
This list could go on and on. I am also tired of hearing this ridiculous argument that guns will miraculously disappear if a law is put in place. Kind of like the war on drugs, yea?
Its called the black market someotherguy. Take something and make it illigal and you create an instant business model for huge profits.
"Prohibition" is a perfect example. It didn't solve any problems it just created a huge black market for the Mafia, etc..
I don't see how owning a gun would have stopped the above crimes.... When you are going to get shot, nobody walks up to you and warns you that you are their target and challenges you to a duel. They see you and just shoot, trust me, I've been shot at here in Chicago. Basically, someone sees someone they think is tough, in a gang, a police officer, or may pose a threat to their gang or operation and shots are fired.
Just read above, people were walking and shots are fired from a moving car. Someone is driving down the expressway and someone fires from a moving car. How fast do you think your reaction time will be to someone that already has their gun drawn and is already targeting you from a moving vehicle?
Chicago is a warzone between gangs and there is no police to stop them. The citizens, which can legally own a gun, can't stop them as many are affiliated or don't care enough to even call the police or help in an investigation. Nobody sees anything, or is too afraid because the gangs outnumber the police and have too much allies within the community.
the majority of guns on the streets were bought legally, fair and square. Gun rights proponents want everyone to have the right to buy and own a gun. It's just that not everyone is of the right mindset to OWN a gun. While tehre is a black market for guns, the bulk are either stolen, resold, or bought at the local gun shop. David Noah: Guns aren't illegal and will never be illegal. The fact that so many people feel more comfortable if everybody were carrying a gun, is rather unsettling. Just picture someone starts shooting in the mall two days before Christmas. What a blood bath that would be as everyone mistakes everyone else for the shooter.
Josh same thing can be said, "I don't see how gun control would have stopped the above crimes...."
This tragedy, however I will agree that its not about owning guns nor gun control, but more to do with the community as whole. Maybe 1984 and big brother was correct............hmmmmm
100% correct Josh
The only way we can help slow this down is make drugs legal 8)
Then concentrate resources on the other issues that the mob, cartels and bad guys keep doing...
maybe instead of gun control we should have bullet control. every bullet sold registered to owner and gun. since the bullet casings are found at crime scene (usually) it would be a source of identifying the shooter . crazy enough to work.
Gun laws won't help. It is illegal to kill and they still do it, just as if handguns are made illegal, they will still use them. Laws are made for our protection, not to jeopardize our safety. Concealed weapons wouldn't have helped anyone in this article, but there are a lot of other instances where they would.
Granny only problem with that is that the criminals do not buy ammo from stores most are acquired underground black market 8) and they can go and collect thousands of casings and just toss them on the floor to make it harder for the cops to trace 8) The firearms they use are not registered to begin with 8(
When you buy a firearm from a dealer and you have to get it registered you get a cute little envelope with 1 empty casing & that lets' you know that the DOJ has a copy as well 8)
Good Citizens follow the rules
Criminals do not and will never 8(
Gun Free Zones in Schools are extremely stupid and a waste.. The Teachers and Administrators need to be armed and trained to protect our babies from the sickos who would hurt innocent children.
Big al The last part of your post is the rub. Most of the people who need to have gun 'to pertek mysef' have no idea how to use one. I fully believe that if during the unpleasantness in Tucson last year everyone in the crowd had been armed and pertectin' themselves the only one to be left standing would be the nut job that started it. Unless you spend a couple of hours a month at the range, you are better off leaving your pertection at home. Duck, and hope they are shooting at you. Most bangers can't hit themselves in the leg with the gun in their pocket. (football players excepted)
Big Al,
Where do you buy your firearms that have an empty shell casing that is a copy of one that goes to the DOJ?? Not in my neighborhood nor anyplace else that I know of!
I have never heard of a firearm dealer giving the Gov't a fired bullet and case. First off, the gun dealer would have to have a bullet trap and forensics training to do this. What court would rely on Joe's Bait and Tackle to supply a valid chain of custody for a bullet and casing? The DOJ wouldn't have the capacity to catalog all the bullets and cases fired from Firearms sold in America this past year (15.4 million).
If you see an empty case attached to a firearm, it is one that the private seller put on there for you to mic. This lets you know the chamber throat is not worn out. If the casing is extra-long or the case mouth is too wide, the throat of the bore is worn out and the accuracy of the firearm is gone. It would need to be rebarrelled. The DOJ shutters to think they would have to catalog every barrel and action sold in America.
@granny22
What happens when people start picking up casings at a local range and manufacturing their own ammo? Its not that hard to do, the equipment to do so is readily available, as are the supplies. These are the problems (much like the "Assault Weapons Ban" AKA Brady Bill) we run into when people who know very little about something attempt to regulate it.
Someotherguy:
They would get them the same way they do now. Steal them or buy them from those who do. There is also the black market gun trade. Contrary to what the media will tell you, Guns pour in from Mexico to the gangs, cartel dealers, and anyone else with the money to buy them. Illegal guns rank second to drugs as the Cartels means of finance. They get them from guns legally sold to the Mexican government, who in turn hands them out to friends and family running the Cartels.
Prohibition didn't work in the 30's all it did was make the mob and Joseph Kennedy, JFK's grandad rich. Joseph Kennedy made his millions selling Canadian booze to the east coast mobsters. The criminals are doing the same thing with illegal and stolen guns. Wake up and smell the B.S. being fed you.
Ban handguns with a big penalty for non-compliance.
Lepere... There were plenty of guns in Tuscon. A couple of the people who wrestled the guy down were armed. Most places where you get a carry license you get safety training. Everyone should have the right to carry, as long as they have received training and qualified.
DelFairchild
I live in California we are very strict when it comes to Gun Control 8( I purchased a pistol not that long ago and inside was a spent case 8) it's kinda like a fingerprint..
They probably do this before the pistol leaves the Manufacturer like in this situation it was a Springfield Armory EMP.
NRA? NRA? Crickets, as usual.
And exactly what is the NRA supose to comment on. That criminals illegally possessing guns comitted and illeagal act. What does this have to do with the NRA?
Passing the blame, I get it. It's the NRA's fault damn them crickets.
If you have paid attention to the NRA stance, they encourage enforcement of all applicable laws to punish criminals.......especially when guns are involved.
Without shooting anyone, how many laws were violated? Minor in possession?, Discharging a fire arm within city limits? Wreckless endangerment? Carry permit? Sure, it's racial profiling, but was either teen legal resident? Stolen gun?
69 million LEGAL gun owners shot no one today.
DeMerl: That comment is about as worthless as I've read yet today. Congratulations!
I love the comments blaming the oldest Civil Rights Organization in our Country's history.
The Vine has it's anti gun nuts who would love to strip me of my right to defend my loved ones.
They obviously support the leaders of the World who loved Gun Control
The Nazi Regime Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons of November 11, 1938, Jews were forbidden from possession of any weapons at all (NEVER AGAIN)
Commie Russia introduction of gun control in 1929 coincided with the beginning of the repressive Stalinist regime.. Easy to Kill Millions when they are not armed 8)
Fascist Italy
The Battles of Lexington and Concord (Brits)
If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." Dalai Lama
NRA Comment is lame
Don't be a victim
Automakers? Automakers? Crickets, as usual.
Hey, why not, right? I mean their products were used in the drive by shooting, right?
Shouldn't THEY be held accountable too?
What about the oil companies? Shouldn't they have known that the gas they produce could be used to fuel a vehicle used in a drive by shooting?
For those of you who got this far and think I'm serious, I'll write the word SARCASM for your benefit.
Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi
Even men of peace know that there are times when free men need to be able to defend themselves and their families against tyranny.
REALLY? DeMerl shows just how much YOU do not KNOW. Who do you think trains the US Law Enforcement on: Firearms Safety, Marksmanship, etc.? Can you say NRA.
And example of how Anti Gun Laws do NOT work is here (Afghanistan), as it is Illegal for Afghan Citizens to own or possess Firearms. So the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc. Rape Pillage and Burn, beatings to get their Mandatory Islamic Tithes (Taxes), grab any male over 10 years old to become "Indoctrinated" as Islamic Jihadists, cut off body parts, massacre any Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, etc..
So unlike the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces, and the US Civilians Idealist Academic Non Factual baloney (attempts to make War Legal and Civilized with the Conventions of War, the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Geneva Convention, note the term Conventional War comes from these Conventions); we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces) that live with the Locals for years (almost a decade) just to get their earned trust: a. Got lots of captured weapons, b. painted them red until we ran out of red paint, so red mixed with white so now pink, c. took samples of expended cartridges and bullets, d. took pictures, fingerprints, DNA swabs, wrote detailed descriptions of each individual of entire villages that we gave these weapons to, e. after teaching them the "Rules", Firearms Safety, marksmanship and some defensive tactics.
And guess what the RESULTS are: We don't get blamed for wrongful deaths. We don't get shot in the back (unlike Afghans trained by the US Civilians). The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc. don't go near those Afghan Villages anymore. We don't have to keep risking our lives retaking over and over again the same Afghan Villages from the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Pakistanis Taliban, etc.. The Afghan Villagers are not forced by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc. to strict obedience to Fundamentalist Islamic Shia (Sharia) Law like revenge killings, honor killings, murder, etc. as the Afghan Villagers know from my very long tea meetings (custom of drinking tea during negotiations) the consequences and responsibilities of their having Firearms as an exemption to Afghan Government Laws (we deputized entire Afghan Villages as Law Enforcement). The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc. have less places to hide or get (steal) resources (Food, Water, Shelter, etc.) from.
Having lived at many Nations of the World for years with the Locals (not just visiting for a few days, weeks, months). You show me successful Anti Gun Laws. As long as there is more than one Human on this Planet Earth there will be some form envy, jealousy, etc. resulting in a death. In the Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks your Academic Idealism only gets yourself and others killed.
If that 6-year old had a gun, this wouldn't have happened!!!
I guess this isn't one of Santorum moral concerns only Women health care, stopping contraception, abortion, porn and speaking English in the United States, never mind if 32-33 people are killed daily by gun.
Ranmarie, what exactly do you expect Santorum to do about these fools killing up each other and their children? If Santorum even broaches the subject, I am sure folks will be calling him insensitive and racist. It will be damn if you do, damn if you don't. Instead of mentioning Santorum, where is Jesse and Al and all the other fake *ss "leaders" of the Black community? This should first be a local government concern. It would be just as ludricrous to demand that President Obama do something about the crime rate, because after all, he is from Illinois.
santorum must be a god. He has so much damn power.
Ahhh I knew we'd get a few of them. The old "let's blame the republicans and democrats". In thsi case, i'll bet Santorum had an executive meeting right before this tragedy happened and they decided to give these gang bangers the guns, then they also loaned them the vehicle, told these criminals where to go and who to shoot. You are right Ranting Marie, its all Santorums fault. LOL so ridiculous
ranmarie, what are democrats doing about this? Chicago and the bulk of Illinois has been under democrat rule nearly forever. I guess democrats don't have all the answers either, more accurately they don't have any answers period, other than to appease these thugs rulingthe streets. Speaking of womens health, you didn't notice it was a 6 year old GIRL who died in this senseless act of barbarity.
And a 100 or so die in automobile accidents daily, so where is all the rhetoric on getting rid of cars and forcing citizens to use mass transit?
Draconian gun laws do nothing to deter crime; provide a list of the cities with the most "severe" anti-gun laws and you will "magically" also provide a list of the cities with the highest violent crime rates.
The way things are going for the Windy City, I can't wait to see Kurt Russell star in "Escape from Chicago--Gone with the Wind."
How about comparing Toronto's shooting deaths to Chicago's, and then you will have a better idea if Gun Control works or not. And then try and compare Chicago to Lyon in France or Zurich in Switzerland, Frankfurt in Germany, Manchester in GB, or any comparable cities of Scandinavia. Gun Control works in a civilised society, would it work here ?????????????
Also how many people were driving when over the limit this weekend, probably a lot but a few idiots always spoil it which is why we have such Laws. They are punishing the majority to protect the few, so why can we not apply the same principle to Gun Control.
Euro;
They don't have the same social dysfunctional demographics, as the states. Isn't it the Swiss who conscript military training to all their citizens 18-50 and issue a side arm and machine gun they keep at home? Apparently having a hand gun and a machine gun in every Swiss home makes for a polite society.
You can't apply the European model to the U.S. Most of us aren't accustomed to having a King, Queen or other body dictate what we can and can not do in our life. Europeans have centuries of practice of being dictated to.
Gun Control: The ability to consistently hit a given target.
2nd Amendment, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of any free state, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms SHALL not be infringed" This right of the individual to keep and bear arms has three times been affirmed by the Supreme Court in the last three years.
This does not and never has applied to criminals. Nor does it apply to aliens illegally in the United States. Of course, criminals were understood to be punished for their crimes at the time of our countries founding. "Nothing improves the disposition of a scoundrel quite like hanging him" Thomas Jefferson, Democrat. Yes, the party did embrace common sense at one time.
There are currently 27,734 gun regulation laws on the books in the United States. Let's try enforcing those before we add more. Like the one that will send ANY felon in possession of a firearm to prison for ten years. No crime committed above possession, if a crime is committed by said felon in possession they are supposed to receive 10 years for the gun and triple sentence for the crime. So manslaughter could effectively be a life+ sentence. The law has been around since 1934 as part of the NFA, national Firearms Act.
Laws only apply to those who choose to abide by them. Criminals clearly do not, hence, the term Criminal.
ranmarie,
What happened to your President Obama's "I Can" as changed to "It's someone else's Fault".
Nice Non Factual Post. Clearly evident you NEVER lived at those "civilised societies". As pertaining to Germany (I lived at Germany between deployments to the Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc., before that I graduated from Deutsche Gymnasium), to get around the WWII Unconditional Terms of Surrender that limited the size of the German Military was Mandatory Compulsory Military Service, with most becoming Reserve German Military after their Mandatory Military Service, many being transfered to German Law Enforcement (Basically, most Germans either do own legally or illegally firearms. And do know how to use Firearms). Switzerland EVERYONE is a Swiss Military Reservist after Mandatory Compulsory Military Service, and yes they all have firearms, some even have anti aircraft guns in their garages that they are responsible for maintaining. France still being so short of French Military still having the French Foreign Legion (most in France legally or illegally owning firearms, you can still buy fully functional well maintained weapons from WWII) especially after the Algerian Riots decades ago at Paris France. British Failure, as the British Gangs and Organized Crime have more and better weapons than the Armed (British Military SAS) backups to the unarmed British Bobbies ever since the "Chunnel" (tunnel between England and France) was created (France, Switzerland, Britain, Sweden, Russian Federation, China as the World's Major Military Arms Dealers).
And the typical response would be what? Discourage the use of Alcohol by taxing the h3ll out of Alcohol, like Tobacco Products (State's Conflict of Interest in owning Tobacco Stocks in their Portfolios). Yeah that worked really well (Increases of Teenagers using Tobacco Products). Just one more excuse of Government to steal more money from US Citizens to pay for their own privilaged (not a Civic Duty) Life Style (Automatic Payraises). A Just and Fair use of the Product Liability Lawsuit Tobacco Settlement money would be medical treatments for the Product Users; NOT the automatic payraises of US Politicians, New Office Furniture, Roads (what Local Taxes, State Income Taxes, Property Taxes, Business Taxes are for, same with Infrastructure, Schools, Public Workers Salaries, etc.).
Basically what you stated A euro are examples of emotive non factual opinions and not Facts. Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here" a Forum to discuss Facts.
"How about comparing Toronto's shooting deaths to Chicago's, and then you will have a better idea if Gun Control works or not. And then try and compare Chicago to Lyon in France or Zurich in Switzerland, Frankfurt in Germany, Manchester in GB, or any comparable cities of Scandinavia. Gun Control works in a civilised society, would it work here ?????????????"
Toronto,Lyon,Zurich,Manchester,and all comparable cities don't have the type and number of inner city thugs like in we do in the US. Intent is always formed before the means to carry it out.
Ok, since you brought that up, and based on your previous Pro Illegal Alien Newsvine Posts. How about this YOU pay for just the cost to US Citizen Residents of California and not the entire US. And why just you? Simple, there is a thing called Illegal Collective Punishment as everyone punished for the actions of the few (like your previous posts).
So ranmariepull out your purse and pay: 2004 California spent over $10 Billion on Illegal Aliens, $7.7 Billion Education of Illegal Aliens, $1.4 Billion Health Care for Illegal Aliens (Free to them but US Citizens paid for), $1.4 Billion for the Imprisonment of Illegal Aliens that committed murder, rape, gang intiations (random rape then murder or random murder), armed robbery, armed assaults, etc.. This over $10 Billion does not count the cost to US Taxpayers for Public Assistance as required after the defeat of California Proposition 187. Illegal Aliens do NOT pay State nor Federal Income Taxes, as to fill out Employer Paperwork is to be apprehended and deported by ICE as praised by President Obama as an effective means for ICE. Not paying State nor Federal Income Taxes is called Felony Criminal Tax Evasion, the same way that the US Government seized Las Vegas and Reno Nevada from Organized Crime and threw many of Organized Crime into Federal Penetenaries for a very long time after failing to convict them for extortion, murder, etc.. The total that the Government of California obtained in 2004 in Sales Taxes was $17 Million; $17 Million does NOT pay for over $10 Billion.
Now let's talk about 2011 (latest numbers from the Government of Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California): Due to the Illegal Aliens at California NOT paying State and Federal Income Taxes, the State of California Revenues fell along with the State of California Budget. As the neighboring States started to enact and enforce Anti Illegal Alien Laws, more Illegal Aliens fled to Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California, to the extent that the Illegal Aliens previously at California started violent actions (crimes) against the new Illegal Aliens, this became even more violent as the Illegal Alien Gangs got involved. Since the money had to come from somewhere to support the increased numbers of Illegal Aliens, California had to get the money somewhere, so they chopped Law Enforcement (layoffs, no new), chopped Teachers (layoffs, no new), no Infrastructure funds, no Irrigation Funds (closure of the Calfornia Fruit and Vegetable Basket, most Fruits and Vegetables for the US now come from South and Central Americas, negating that Illegal Aliens do work US Citizens will not), chops to Public Workers, other Austerity Measures, etc..
Illegal Aliens as a Known National Security Threat as further back than the measures taken by President Eisenhower, including the legal precedent set to deport "Those Little Frauds" aka "Anchor Babies" (Fraud against the US Citizens, US Government, and US Constitution and Amendments (intent)) as ruled by the US Supreme Court. Currently, known that Illegal Aliens, Drug Lords collaborate with the Islamic Terrorists for money, as tons of weapons are smuggled from South and Central Americas by Hamas Foreign Fighters, Hezbollah as supported by the Islamic Republic of Iran, these weapons supplied to the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Russian Federation and Chinese are desired more than the US weapons by the Drug Lords. Illegal Aliens used as Smugglers and Drug Mules to pay for the Coyotes getting them across the US Borders (including with Canada). Fortunely, the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces at South and Central Americas are doing things; and the FBI are posing as either Drug Lords or Drug Lord's Employees and apprehending some of the Islamic Jihadists (only takes a few to get thru). It is only a matter of time before a Islamic Jihadist Organization has smuggled into the US a portable nuclear weapon, and maybe detonates that nuclear weapon in your city ranmarie.
So how about this, ranmarie, to exclude you from a conversation we speak a lanugage that you do not know in a Nation with a Heritage of your language. Do you know how we KNOW who actually are Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban? Hint: They do not speak Pashtu, Dari or any Afghan language very well.
So ranmarie let the United States become the United States of the Tower of Babel. The Tower of Babel may have been a parable; still something to learn from.
May have been gang related! Get real! What other kind of drive by shooting would it be.
Those thugs don't give a rats as*s if there are people are the streets or not, so one little girl. Just everyday collateral damage to them.
Some care, but it's a small minority. Most as you said, don't care if there is an entire park full of children as long as they hit their target. Unfortunately a lot of their targets are not gang affiliated, but they will shoot anyone just to be safe...
And HOW do you know?
I live in Chicago and there are gangbangers everywhere. You can pretty much walk down the block and a neighbor may have a kid that's in a gang or know someone that is. Then all you have to do is talk to the person that's in the gang.
For example, a few blocks away from my house is a school, the gangbangers don't hangout around the school until the children are let out. Then they hangout all afternoon and all night throwing gang signs at passing vehicles and the police cameras that are watching them that are placed all around the school. If you pass with a kid, they move to the side and let you pass, but if you pass alone, they try and 'check' you.
And HOW do you know?
So he said she said and not from personal experience. As if they really give a f**k about collateral damage while trying to make a Gang reputation for themselves.
Guess we should bring back the death penalty for minors also. Quick and end the years worth of expense to our states.
this is what happens when parents stop parenting and allow their kids to become thugs and think they have all the power. I will take on anyone of these cowards that carry a gun and whip their a**. Put yuour guns down and lets go back to the days when guys, well MEN, used their fists. Lets see how many of you so called "thugs" will be able to take it then. Thugs think they need to rule by the fear of intimidation that is why they have a gun and shoot from a moving car. YOU ALL ARE COWARDS AND HOW DARE YOU HURT CHILDREN? Oh and by the way, I am a girl and willing to kick all of your butts.
I understand your rant, but I don't think any thugs know how to use a computer, let alone read and post on the vine.
I use to teach inner city kids, and most of them are not thugs , drug dealers or gang bangers...but let me reassure you that the ones who are take being able to fight very seriously. Esp the gang members, they know how to fight and even though i was a big guy back then (6'3" 225#) and in fair shape, i wouldnt want to have gone against a lot of them , gun or fist.
toldin, sorry but you must first get rid of your fear. You already lost to them when you feared them. Gang members don't know how to fight, get real, there may be a few, but most of them just run around and punch and kick who ever is near, sometimes their own. And why else would they use a gun, it inflicts damage from a safe distence. I've never seen a 1 on 1 gang fight, you know why, because they know they will lose.
The last sentence of your post made me laugh aloud. I admire your spirit, but most gangs exist with a survival mindset (which is why they value loyalty and punish treachery). That means they'll use any means necessary to survive, including "cowardly" weapons like firearms. It's just the way it is.
OMG... this is sick, WTF is wrong with ppl! Stay in school get a job stop trying to act like thugs.
Honey, they are thugs. I remember the bad ol' days in LA when we had shootings in this vein every weekend when the rainy season stopped. Kids with no family life and no future roamed the streets and shot up entire neighborhoods as part of their gang initiation or for retaliation. The numbers have been down considerably for more than a decade, thanks to policing strategies that evidently have worked well
Shootings have nothing to do with gun control - people who want to carry weapons & shoot others will acquire a gun.
Innocent bystanders are just collateral damage to them. Gang/drug violence right here in the US needs to be addressed.
These shootings were "driveby". Instead of outlawing guns; just outlaw trucks, autos, bicycles.. anything with wheels.
I noticed that too...a woman opened the door to her apartment and was immediatly smacked in the face by a car! They should be outlawed.
What is wrong with people?!?!? Is anything or anyone truly safe anymore?
Yes, people are still safe. Don't exagerate the fear to the masses, the media already does a goog job with that.
It's not an exaggeration. I live in Chicago, and will tell you that the above article is true. I will also tell you that there are many other shootings not reported that occurred over the weekend and are only appearing in the news because families want answers. Just listen to the Chicago police scanner when ever you can, it's shooting after shooting, stabbing after stabbing all over the city. I feel sorry for our undermanned police.
Josh, if chicago is really that unsafe, then let's just drop a bomb on it and start fresh like how we did in the middle east. No love lost right?
thinking outside the box...maybe there's a greater evil at work designed to stir up this fear to open the door to stricter gun control laws...confiscation from everyone except the lawless?
reminds me of that group that introduced gluteus-split to the inner cities of LA a couple decades back.
problem>reaction>solution...election's just around the corner.
The only people who want gun control are those committing these heinous crimes. I know of nobody who is a member of our Gun Club who has driven by anywhere and shot anyone. They want all the guns off the street and out of the hands of legal gun owners so they can STILL buy there weapons and mow you down in your homes, in your car and on the street without any fear of retaliation. Why don't you "CONTROL FREAKS" go out and take care of the drug dealers. Thats your start.
I think you are giving animals a bad name.
Remember kids when seconds count the police are minutes away!
Around 10 -15 minutes to be exact. But I don't blame the police, in Chicago there are under 9,000 police officers, and over 100,000 gangbangers. I blame the parents that don't teach their children correctly and the politicians that refuse to hire new officers or do something about the gang epidemic.
how do you knock the police when they are outmanned? You are the kind of guy who would be the 1st to scream if a cop told you to go recover your own stolen car as they spend their time looking for the really bad guys.
The blame is on the criminal justice system that continues to recycle these rejects back into society. It's a moneymaker.
You're a wizard. Why don't you teleport the police in!? Or do your powers only apply in the blogosphere?
Incidentally, I'm looking forward to a computerized automobile transport system in which police and other emergency vehicles have top priority and can cut response times in half (or more). But, that's probably 20-30 years away, if it ever comes at all.
Why don't you place the blame where it belongs? At home. Most of these kids grow up in homes that I wouldn't throw my worst enemy in to.
Parents need to show their children the right way. The right way is clearly to be a law abiding citizen.
Unfortunately the allure of immediate satisfaction is too much for a lot of people to ignore. Why work 8 hours a day and earn a meagre paycheck, when you can sell someone some crack and make $100 in less than 15 minutes? times that by, heck even 4 hours, and the instant reward is huge.
Education is huge.
whenever you hear "popping" sounds in the ghetto the odds of them being fireworks are pretty remote.
you'd be surprised at how many people set off fireworks for St. Patrick's day or any other day in Chicago.
i didn't know one could buy fireworks with food stamps
@DonKeeHaa
Sure you can; ask any of your kinfolk in the trailer park. After all, who gets the lion's share of American social welfare (give you a hint: they're not minorities)
I highly doubt "liberal" judges are going to just slap these goons on the wrist for discahraging firearms in public and harming citizens. They, like any other judge, will send them to prison for life. What an idiotic statement from a situation that does not need to be made political.
I like how it is stating "liberal judges" lets these goons go. I am a liberal and I would throws there creeps in jail and execute the idiots that shot the kid.
I just dont see how allowing law abiding citizens carry firearms changes this situation other than to give them the opportunity to fire back and in most cases, wide of the mark and into the path of yet another innocent child. I can assure you, most of these goons are better shots than "law abiding" citizens, and the minute you, the law abiding citizen, draw your weapon, they will have already put three in your head. Lot of good that conceal and carry did you. Yes, i know all you firearm toters thank you are bad asses behind the trigger of your weapon and a target down at Bob's shooting range, but seriously doubt you have ever pointed your weapon at another person with the intent of taking their life. so while you are still figuring out out to turn off the safety in the heat of battle, ur dead. These law abiding citizens usually end up discharging their weapon into the back of the dude hosing their wife. Murder 2 if ur lucky.
Yes, i understand that "guns" dont kill people, people kill people and this is a true statement. and, i also know it is impossible to get all the weapons off the streets and that only outlaws have the firearms. so how do you fix this problem, you don't. You throw the ones in jail you can catch and hope the community has enough balls to rat out the neighborhood bullies who go around and take the life of others. But, they usually don't. It is a hopeless and helpless situation that continues every day of the year.
Sadly, all these familes of those lives that were taken have to carry this burden and listen to all the politicians BS about how they could have made this different. They know that it won't change, it never does. Garbage in, Garbage out.
If anyone has a realistic soultion to this, let er rip, but key in on realistic, becuase that is what the public will grade you on.
bigdrive32...
I'll agree with you that judges need to put these low life dirt bags away for life, or preferably to death. But we both know that won't happen.
In reality, we're "attacking" the "war on drugs" in the wrong way. Instead of trying to go after the seller, go after the buyer. When you catch the buyer, give him/her a $1,000.00 fine for that dime bag on the first round, $5,000.00 on the second time, $10,000.00 on the third and so on. Eventually they'll get the message that it's going to cost them too much for the high and they'll of necessity stop. It might be simplistic, but what the hell, what we're doing isn't working... might as well give it a try.
Great post. Sad, but true.
There is some truth to the saying "Guns don't kill--people do." However, guns elevate disputes from bumps, bruises and cuts to serious injuries and fatalities. However, I'm no longer convinced that gun control is the answer--at least not in the strict forms that some advocate. The guns are out there and there is no getting them back.
Instead, we should tackle things from the criminal justice perspective. If we can add penalties based on motive (e.g. hate crimes legislation) why not add an universal penalty for the weapon used to commit the crime? If firearms are involved in a robber, then add an automatic 10 year sentence. If the firearm is discharged, 15 years. If the firearm strikes someone: 20 years. Increase penalties for the use of firearms, rather than for ownership or possession of the firearms themselves.
Great idea XDM.
Then we can fill prisons with those Americans evilly trying to pursue life, liberty and happiness without government control. We need to squash all talk of legalizing and taxing those substances the perps think they enjoy, because that will only lead to less profit for the prison systems and we can't have that !!!!
Yep bad idea because the Jails are already full as hell here in California 8( and the Police Unions have sweetheart pensions and it only making us more bankrupt.
The Drug War is an absolute Epic Failure.
Prohibition in the 30s was Epic Failure.
New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
In 1976, Washington, D.C. enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.
Among the 15 states with the highest homicide rates, 10 have restrictive or very restrictive gun laws.
See the trend 8)
big al---never have even held a gun so i know nothing about them. thanks for info.
Al Gore??
Monkeys with guns
Monkies are smarter and have much better morals, don't associate the two.
Yes please don't offend the monkeys
If it were monkeys, we'd have drive-by poop throwing!
I think I'd like to see that, myself.
Was that a racial shot Brian? Wow... Really?
These gang drive by shooters are the "terrorists" we should be funding a war against, rather than funding TSA and DHS chasing ghosts. These are real and here and now. Instead of cutting funds to our local police departments and giving millions to DHS, how about we beef up laws against drug cartels and crimes associated with them. Let's fight the terrorism in our own neighborhoods instead of groping granny at the airport.
Because groping grannies is more fun and to some a fetish.
It looks like the scrapings off the outside of the bottom of the barrel are coming to life in Chicago. The warm weather has apparently invigorated the low life scum to come out of the crack houses and reclaim their turf!
My God! Chicago makes the old wild west look like a care bear picnic! What is wrong with these people? They have no respect for human life, I wonder, should the penal system have any respect for them? To begin executing these thugs, Illinois would need a drive thru window! You want electricity or gas with that execution?
Hey, I like that idea; I'd bet that when these gang-bangin' ne'er do wells see some of their cronies executed within months instead of years they'll start thinkin' this could be me next if I keep this gang-bangin' and shooting up. I know the ACLU (American Communist Lovers Union) would fight like hell to stop it, until one of their own leaders is gunned down.
It has Nothing to do with 'gun control' ! The law and the courts have to get alot more strick with the animals doing these violent crimes. Death penalty anyone ? Sounds good to me. When the criminals that do these shootings, murders ect they know they wont get too much in way of punishment so what's to stop them. Wake up and smell the bloodshed !!!!!!
Citizens willing to use their Guns is the answer to this crap. These Cowards would run back to the sewer the crawled out of after a few of the are laid out in the street by the public.
I'm trying real hard not think race has anything to do with this tragedy,but then I read tihs like this. Boy MSN you really know how to stir up a hornets nest with this one.
MSN and MSNBC is doing everything possible to get the anti-gun crowd riled up. They'll NEVER post an article about the law abiding citizen that uses a firearm in defense successfully.
Here's one for you XD (sorry about the link not going through properly, take the space after the http:// out):
http:// usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/05/9968356-no-charges-for-teen-widow-who-killed-intruder
It's simply a story about what happened. You want a twisted tale from FOX news. And as far as the law abiding citizen story that you need, that story still ends with killing. You just want to be able to kill....why not just admit it and stop the BS spin. If you can just find a criminal somewhere, you can legally kill. You don't want to stop crime, you want to kill someone.
Race does have something to do with it. All these black and hispanic kids wouldn't be fighting over drug turf if not for the INSATIABLE appetite for drugs belonging to-wait for it....WHITE AMERICA! That's right!
So everybody that wants to immediately hang it on minorities alone, wake up and smell the coffee. The drug trade is a $100 billion industry, or better in this country, the vast majority of that being consumed by WHITES.
If we're gonna point fingers, let's get everybody.
I can't even believe what I just read!!!! This is so tragic & awful. The weak-minded, stupid, pathetic people who join a gangs baffle me!
Me too, I don't know why people would join the republicans or the democrats. Those two gangs are nothing but thugs.
thepunisher - AMEN to that
Seconded Kayner...
Hmm... heavy Chemtrails all last week.
Just put all the gangs in one giant room and let them solve their issues themselves. Maybe they will wipe each other out and solve our issues =)
Reason- But there are no such things as chemtrails. Ask anyone. Its just really long standing contrails. Ask em. They'll tell ya.
T.N.B.