Good that Fl. is having a Grand Jury to check the facts, but, this is Fl, and it's even better that the Feds are investigating, I trust the Feds, a hell of a lot more than Florida to find out the facts and bring some kind of justice to Trayvon and his parents. This "stand your ground law" needs to be challenged in the Federal courts, too.

the stand your ground law is fine michelle when the rules for it are actually followed. there was no threat from the child and therefore it should not have been applied to this situation.

The stand your ground law is a good thing. What we seem to have here is an idiot that more than likely assumed that the 17 year old was a criminal. Standing your ground and pursuing someone are two different things.

I'm so glad they are investigating. In some communities Zimmerman would be in danger but from the sounds of the posts I've read, we're dealing w/ some pre-civil rights mentality. Sad. Racism in any form and against any group is wrong. As for 'stand your ground', many rules are good in theory but can be twisted. I don't know if that is the case w/ this law.

Scott: I don't give a dam if he was Black , Blue OR Purple it was still wrtong*

I find it repugnant that it took the Federal government stepping in to announce THEY were investigating before the Grand Jury was announced. It appears that Florida decided that their goose was cooked and are trying to prevent the Federal Government from looking into their flawed justice system too closely.

Dave

If the stand your ground law is so good, why did the police in FL decried it when first passed?

Yea it's a good idea since you are on the "right" side that will get away with shooting a black man nine out of ten times. My bet is the hillbilly whites would sing a far different tune when Tavon's dad shoots Jedthro or Bubba. Most likely be a complete reversal and the black man "standing his ground" would be charged with murder nine out of ten times.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/?mobile=nc

i normally dont like to cite thinkprogress because i dont expect a partisan blog to be taken as a legitimate, credible source as someone who disagrees with me (which isnt to say, of course, that thinkprogress isnt a legitimate, credible news source).

but as you can see from the links and its citations, mr. zimmerman has a history of criminal records, animosity toward black men, did not follow the instructions by the police, violated neighborhood watch guidelines and did not appear to be threatened by the victim.

furthermore, there appears to be negligence from the part of the police officers that arrived at the scene.

next time ron paul and rand paul, or whoever else tell you that the civil rights act is outdated because racism is dead, or your run of the mill right wing talk show host, your hannities, limbaughs, becks or whatnots, tell you that the white man is threatened by reverse discrimination, they are lying to you.

they are lying to you, and if you believe them, it is not their fault. it is your fault.

@scotta714 What difference does it make that the shooter is Hispanic? I don't really follow your logic. The history of the Grand Jury is fascinating. It was originally created to protect the land owning citizens from the King, since if you were arrested and convicted your land would escheat to the King. So the King had a vested interest in arresting and convicting landowners without the protection of a group of peers to decide if the charges were legitimate. Like so many things, the executive branch soon learned to use the grand jury to its advantage, as an investigative arm not bound by the same rules as the police. The grand juries were then called "Blue Ribbon" grand juries and loaded up with members of the community that were carefully selected by the executive branch. This resulted in case law indicating the grand juries must reflect the general populace, and that once a defendant was indicted by one grand jury all investigation by other grand juries into that same crime must end. That way the grand jury couldn't be used as an arm of the police or DA. This is a good thing now that we no longer have the right to habeas corpus in this country and can be held indefinitely without trial.

In my opinion, this isn't nearly as much about race as it is about vigilante justice. People like Zimmerman are so warped, that they believe they're doing "society" a favor by ridding the community of anyone that fits their idea of a criminal profile. Unfortunately, especially in this case, those needing to uphold real justice (a.k.a the Sanford Police Department) appear to be just as pleased with the vigilantes as they are with themselves. I'm surprised they haven't deputized him already.

Stand your ground = license to kill

This NRA-backed law is flawed and needs to be abolished or amended. Everyone who owns a gun and expects to defend themselves under the provisions of this law should be subject to strict training geared towards educating gun owners about what "reasonable" means with respect to cause for shooting another human being.

Sarah

What happened to civilization and juris prudence???

For those who want to "take our country back", this NRA lobbied law is civil enough for them.

What amazes me is how people don't understand why the FBI is involved. Do people really not know the history of some states in enforcing the law when it comes to race? If not, look up 'Mississipi Burning' and at least get familiar with the reason.

Pen,

I think we should pass a law stating that your IQ has to be higher than the caliber of gun you're attempting to purchase. At least.

The "stand your ground law" applied to Trayvon Martin. He was pursuit and tried to flee and couldn't so he struggled with his stalker. "Stand your ground" applies to Trayvon. Zimmerman was a pursuer not a victim. Hence he needs to be arrested. You cannot rely on the local police force to do this. They botched this investigation from the get go and need retraining and psychological evaluations to check for possible racism. If I were the FBI or Justice I would check over their arrests and convictions in that city with a rectal ultrasound probe.

Sarah, justice systems don't do a damn bit of good (for you, anyway) if you're dead. That's why I carry, and it's also why if it comes to that point I won't be shooting in an attempt to 'get away': that's what they do in movies. In real life when it comes to drawn guns the goal is to END the conflict, which means you're still moving and the other person isn't. Period.

Fortunately, I've never had to draw on someone else, and pray I never have to do so, but if I do, I won't hesitate to protect my person or liberty. Not because I'm 'obsessed' or am feeling my 'machismo', but because I cherish my God-given, Constitutionally-affirmed rights, and know that no one is in a better position to protect them than me.

And bunk on your civilization and jurisprudence idea. There are more people and guns now than at any point in our history, yet shootings occur at their lowest rate, and there hasn't been an extra-judicial hanging since I don't know when. The good old days weren't as nice as it seems you think they were.

First no grand jury I know of pops up until the DA calls them and they like to have all their ducks in a row first. second for Scott It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman was purple with pink polka dots it is always our fault even if the nearest White person was 5 miles away.

I don't know if this was racially motivated or not, but what I find disturbing is this vigilante mindset of the shooter. He could have chosen to let the police come and do their job but instead got involved and now this kid is dead. Would a cop have done the same thing? My bet is no because civilians aren't trained to deal with these situations. It scares the hell out of me to think so many gun crazies are getting permits and looking for some chance to pop a cap in somebody. How do I know someone carrying a weapon won't perceive me as doing something wrong and shoot me claiming self-defense? I don't know and that's the worst part of it!

My deepest condolence to the family of Treyvon Martin! I hope that man gets what he deserves , My son too is African American and bcoz he is black cops confused him wt a man cops beat him now my son is back in NY wt me and walks wt a scar under his eye . I my self dont trust cops or the system my son is only 16 and a good kid, but bcoz he is black some prejudice cops in Miami beat him and scared him for life and nothing yet has been done. To this family stay strong my son is here wt me but im angry and still feel the pain. May god bless you and your love ones.

This could be about race, but more than likely, this is about a fat a*&hole thinking he had more power than he really did. Apparently, this guy called 911 more frequently than Sunnyside retirement home! They knew all about him there. He is a power hungry, dare I say, crazy individual that has no business being on the street. His father was trying to say that he was misunderstood, that he was not a racist, but too many people are trying to make this a racist thing. It should just be about an armed person shooting an unarmed person for no reason. Take race out of it, even if it was there, and maybe even the red-necks would not support this guy.

Sarah - Test for IQ? haha. What about the bigotry in them? That I know you can never cure. It is as deadly as the gun they carry.

I don't think the "stand your ground" law even applies here; proof has surfaced that Zimmerman pursued Trayvon. The problem isn't with the law, the problem is the police didn't investigate this case properly. Sadly, no matter what happens to Zimmerman, it'll never bring Trayvon back.

What I find appalling is that this is being tried in the media. I don't have any idea who did what in all of this. No facts have been released. I'm very sorry for their loss and I hope for their sakes, their child didn't do anything wrong. As a parent, it is what I would want if it had been my child. But, the fact remains that NO ONE knows what went on that night yet except the man involved and POSSIBLY the 911 operators. Everyone else is just jumping to conclusions.

As to the media - Using titles like "Trayvon Martin was killed because of 'the color of his skin" is irresponsible. I understand you were just parroting the parents, but use a little judgement next time please. That statement is akin to shouting "fire" in a theater.

Good one, Sarah.....I like this one too....you can't own more guns than you have teeth.

Artes,

Fortunately, I've never had to draw on someone else, and pray I never have to do so, but if I do, I won't hesitate to protect my person or liberty. Not because I'm 'obsessed' or am feeling my 'machismo', but because I cherish my God-given, Constitutionally-affirmed rights, and know that no one is in a better position to protect them than me.

Well good thing your Constitutionally affirmed right doesn't include shooting that gun, nor does it trump other people's Consitutionally affirmed right to due process and equal protection under the law.

Your statement is full of machismo and obsession. If you were really about simply protecting yourself, you'd have no problem NOT shooting an attacker, as long as you were safe.

There is more to the Constitution than the 2nd Amendment, you know.

In general the Stand Your Ground law is good, if it is followed when appropriate. In this case it wasn't. But when you got someone busting through your front door, it is good to have that kind of legal protection.

Stand your ground was not supposed to allow chasing down a black man and shooting him. The trouble with the law is that racists and idiots with guns can use it justify such actions. It opens the door for all kinds of murderous action under the claim, 'I thought I was being threatened.' It needs to be struck down, and quickly. Zimmerman should be charged with murder.

Trayvon Martin's final phone call: 'He said this man was watching him'

Sad indeed....

This Grand Jury is just a farce to CYA. This child was killed on February 26, almost a month ago???? What's taking soooooo long to convene this Grand Jury? I submit to you that if the Justice and FBI was not stepping in, they would still be trying to sweep it under the table. No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace! May God bless America!!!

How was it self-defense? The kid was trying to get away from the big guy with a gun and the big guy chased him down. Nothing less than murder by Zimmerman who then claims self-defense to get away with his crime. Oh, yea...it's Florida and Caylee Anthony drowned in the swimming pool. Gotcha! *wink*

Okay Sara and I never agree on much, but this time she is spot on!!

I grew up with guns in our house. We hunted and I have done so all my life. I have never killed anyone. I have guns in my home now. For hunting and self defense. My guns are in my home, where if we are under attack I can use them if absolutely necessary. That is why they are in my home. If we travel, I carry one with me so that if we are on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere (which we have a lot off here) I can defend myself or my family IF absolutley necessary. In all cases, they will have to bring the fight to me and I will defend wilth as little as possible or as much as it takes.

THAT IS NOT what happened by what we know at this point. He was told to stand down by the authorities. He did not. Thus, HE carrired the fight to the kid. We don't know much else except that because of his actions a young man is dead. The color of the boys skin is important because in this case he was profiled. I wish I was wrong, but I am not.

This is manslaughter at the VERY least. Appears to be a murder except that it will be hard to prove pre-meditation. Just an absolute shame

TO Steve: Everybody is wrong who does an act as this quit being a poor me baby! Grow up! Its people like you who piss people off. I lie its people like you who are miserable

This is just so wrong. I have a concealed permit like Zimmerman has and they taught me I am more responsable for my actions than a non concealed person. Look at this young man and his family. I am a old retired guy and there is no way in heck I would feel he was a threat. I think this Zimmerman guy was just out looking for trouble and not to protect anything. This guy thinks he has a license to kill and that is totally wrong and how did he get his concealed license with a felony in his past. I feel so bad about this and I really don't think it is a racial thing it is a stupid thing and Zimmerman belongs behind bars. Killing a kid, give me a break...

To: Steve you hear about white people all day long and black people all day long no one is perfect out of each nationality there are bad people jeez

Stand your Ground laws are just a license to kill anyone you don't like. Who is going to dispute you when you say, "It looked like he was going to kill me when he was running in my direction.". Not a damned person.

Only a warped, insane mind would think this type of law is a good thing.

The number of shooting deaths TRIPLED in florida after this law was passed. That should tell you something about the insanity of passing something so morally reprehensible. Maybe more people who think this law is a good thing need to be shot and killed under it. Then maybe they will revoke it.

Nice old guy-3892311, he got the permit because the GUN NUTS supported by the NRA wanted him to be able to get it. Hell, FELONS in Arizona can buy and carry guns because their laws are so lax. Most places, even in florida, don't even do the required background checks because they don't want to spend the money and want an immediate sale and don't want to wait for the check to complete.

Ron....just pretend that I said something about your statement that would get me banned from the vine for a week. You have a case here that screams an armed aggressor (who was specifically told not to) chasing down a supposed suspicious person with skittles. Sound much like self defense to you? And....just for the record....all us 'protesters' are doing is to ask for somebody to look into the matter. Intelligent people would see this....and I suspect that you don't quite fit into this category. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

All Eyez,

I know, right? There's nothing worse than listening to white men whine about how the system is biased against them. SteveM, if you're white, a man, and whining about the system, I gaurentee you wouldn't last a day as ANY minority. Just imagine what the response would have been had the shooter been black and the kid white.

TX,

Glad to see we finally hit on a common point.

Focus on the individual only!!!!!

OOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HORRIFIC! cannot even begin the imaginings for an utterance because I have nothing but screeching, stabbing goosebump body chills all over!!! This is the first opportunity I've had to look at anything, except a headline, about this story. That poor has-to-be-devastated Mother!!!!!! OMG!!!!!

What a GREAT response and response statement from Norm Wolfinger; and response from the DOJ and FBI. Do they mean it? Will they really stay on it and follow-through all the way to conclusion; including the abolishment of such coddled "Crimes Against Humanity" Laws, as in this article? OMG!!!!!!!

Sarah, how true right. It's like certain people have to win by how many people they can get on there side by hurting or bringing past on someone else. Clarification they have to have "Quantity" not "Quality" per say

How can it be self-defense???? He pursued the kid even after the cops said stop.

You are so immature Steve, you make me laugh by your childish ways. If I were you (thank God I am not) I would practice seriously on worrying about me and quit trying to hurt other people to make me look good those are "CHEAP" shots. Can you think of other ways of being happy? Poor kid

There's nothing worse than listening to white men whine about how the system is biased against them

Yes, well, it isn't like there aren't white male victims of the system. Here's the thing: Anybody about to whine simply needs to check out normal statistics before they open their mouth in a foolish way. It is one thing to say, 'I was the victim of X.' Entirely another to say something like, 'Affirmative action is keeping me, the white male, DOWN!' Because that is just stupid.

Check out domestic violence stats, just to take an extreme example. Did you notice that the white male victims does not read 0%, Did you also notice what percentage it does read, and compare that to women? Yeah, unless you are breathing fumes, if you are a smart white male, you'll quit b!tch!ng fast.

mnbikeguy what you said sounds alot like Steve, not listening.

ron

There is nothing inherently wrong with Second Amendment rights, as long as those who use firearms are at least as concerned with gun responsibility as with gun rights. The fact that you believe this is a clear case of self defense should be reason enough to deny you any right to own, use or even be in the vicinity of any firearm. You clearly do not understand the circumstances that would justify use of a gun.

If the NRA would put half as much effort into gun responsibility as it does for gun rights this country would be a much safer place Note to gun advocates: most "liberals" do not want to take your guns away .... they want gun responsibility to be at least as important as gun rights.

@ Sarah: Sorry, the Stand your ground law, when applied as it's intended, is perfectly just and legal. You have mere seconds to determine a course of action in a confrontation. I will let a thief steal my car but not my life. The justice system is flawed at best, inadequate at worst. But that's for legal scholars to debate until they are blue in the face. Please don't assume we as a society are so far advanced because we supposedly have more advanced thinking than those in times past. Good vs evil, right vs wrong have not really changed much since the dawn of time. We just arrogantly assume our generation is smarter and closer to Utopia than the last. There isn't a responsible gun owner out there who itches for the day he gets to shoot someone. You only want to see that there's always an option to not use deadly force, when there sometimes is.

@ron-1902603 you are an idiot!! You can really sit there and say that it was self defence and the only reason there is a grand jury is because of protesters that think they can make up their own laws. I am not a racist but I can only guess what color you are and you should pray that something like this never happens to one of your children....YOU ARE TRULY AN @!$%#

if you are a smart white male, you'll quit b!tch!ng fast.

So simply put, and yet so true. Seriously, just leave the bit**ing to me guys, because I have got that down pat. ;)

So now it appears that a black malitia is going after Zimmerman in order to make a citizens arrest. If they are in Florida, does this mean that when Zimmerman tries to flee they can "stand their ground" and shoot him in self defense? Well, since they are black the obvious answer is no. If it is no for them then it should be no for Zimmerman and he should be arrested. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I think Scott's reason for pointing out to the person that the shooter was Hispanic was because she said something about hoping there was not a "KKK jury", implying a jury biased to a white defendant; as the shooter is Hispanic, that does not apply. He was not trying to be racist either.

It took until post 1.34 for a poster to identify the big picture. Here again we have the Media spurring on this incident while many other incidents where blacks hurt, kill whites are totally ignored. (What ever happened to balanced coverage?)

Do I know the outcome of this case? No Do I think it is appropriate for it to be on the National media as "if" blacks are being wronged "again" for their race? Absolutely not. Stories like this is what keep racism alive, not people.

Bottom line, we need to put aside the "racial emotionalism" and look only at the facts.

@Sarah, Pen and others:

When the supreme court has ruled that the police department has no duty to defend you (apparently the motto "To Serve and Protect" is a lie) then you can expect more and more "Stand Your Ground" laws to be enacted all over the country. People do have a right to defend themselves and these laws give people the legal means to do so. For the most part, I feel that these laws as well as "Castle Doctrine" laws are good for the general public and individual citizen.

Now, all that said, in this case the individual, Mr. Zimmerman, does not appear to have a strong case. Trayvon was unarmed and he pursued him. That's not standing your ground, that's looking for trouble, and there is a world of difference. I'm willing to bet that Mr. Zimmerman is going to be in prison for a long, long time when this is all said and done. The only scenario that I can see where he might get off is that if, during the struggle/fight (and there would need to be independent, corroborating witnesses), Trayvon had attempted to take the gun from him. Then he would be able to say that he felt that he was in imminent danger. Even then, though, Mr. Zimmerman shouldn't have been pursuing Trayvon in the first place, so the whole fight shouldn't have even occurred-- it's hard to justify that when the 911 dispatch specifically told him not to pursue the "suspect." I think that that will be his defense in court though-- and it just might work... From the outside looking in, though, I say lock him up.

Scott (@ comment 1.3): How did you gather that George Zimmerman (aka. "the shooter" - you said so, yourself) is hispanic? The name is a germanic name. I have seen nothing in any news reports yet that indicate he is hispanic. However, so what if he is?? Does that add some special factor into this case? Or, perhaps do you live there, Scott, and do you know more about this situation, which should be spoken to the publlic and the court????? Can you answer these questions, Scott?!

[You know, I could draw some s-t-r-o-n-g conclusions from the reported facts which I have actually seen so far, yet I will refrain. Any one else, like you Scott, care to take the same attitude?]

Amazing how you guys/girl turned this into a race thing and included a racist(white) that is not apart of this crime.

This case is just like Julius Johnson an unarmed 16yo black teen shot dead in the middle of a school day this january in Reading PA by a white guy who got to keep his guy. I guess the reason you havent heard about it is that johnson was skipping school, had robed someone else, and had an ankle bracelete from probation.

PEN24;

The police decry any law that might allow citizens to defend themselves. They fear they might lose a job or two. If it didn't take them thirty minute to respond to a call, maybe, just maybe, these laws would have less appeal. Police departments in every state came out against concealed carry laws, :It will be the wild wild west","there will be shootings on every corner", "they endanger the public", and on and on, guess what, none of it was true. The people getting trained, finger printed and photographed are not the ones doing all the shooting and reasonable people are just that. This is a simple case, One idiot shot this kid, not the NRA, not the other 84,898,899 law abiding responsible gun owners who, by the way, killed no one yesterday.

Sarah;

While there seems no justification in this Florida case, and I'm sure the Feds or grand jury will get to the bottom of it, don't confuse this case with the law. If your actions puts another persons life in jeopardy, the right to fire that gun is protected. It's called self defense. In that case, your right to due process is mute and is limited to the charity of the intended victim. All that is required to avoid this situation is not making threats of violence against another person. Absent the threat, there is no justification to draw a weapon, Even though cops seem to draw their weapon on all traffic stops or just to intimidate. Your personal choice of owning or carrying a gun is your choice. The law says otherwise (except in some of the Nanny states) , as long as you are not a felon, don't have a conviction of domestic violence, are not mentally defective, not addicted to or a user of illegal drugs, or an alcoholic, pass a federal background check, pass a training course, get finger printed, photographed, AND the chief law enforcement officer signs off on it. But then, the thugs don't bother with such legal requirements do they? Criminals don't obey the laws, hence the term criminal. Instead of trying to vilify law abiding gun owners, try this, let the professionals do their jobs, and confine your opinion about guns to your own life. Duns don't kill people, people do. Just as cars don't kill people, driver error does. Using your logic, pencils cause misspelled words.

If the NRA would put half as much effort into gun responsibility as it does for gun rights this country would be a much safer place Note to gun advocates: most "liberals" do not want to take your guns away .... they want gun responsibility to be at least as important as gun rights.

The NRA spends millions of dollars every year training 1000's of Americans about gun responsibilities. Note to most "liberals" the NRA is not solely a lobbying group, they are primarily a group dedicated to training individuals the rights AND responsibilities of gun ownership.

Had Trayvon Martin shot George Zimmerman, you can bet your sweet ass he would have been jailed, indicted and prosecuted by now. However, this IS Florida so it is hardly surprising ... just another reason for me not to spend my tourist dollars in such an back-asswards state ...

Either SteveM is a bad troll, or a HUGE racist. Probably both. Good god, listen to yourself man.

"Chimp out," "thug," are you F'ing serious?!?

It took until post 1.34 for a poster to identify the big picture.

wow willowbrook, you thought 1.34 "got the big picture."? SteveM's post was nothing more than racist drivel, any normal person would be absolutely ashamed to support his screed.

Zimmerman told dispatchers, adding, "These @!$%#s. They always get away."

It would be nice to know what the censored word was. If it was "@!$%#s" that would indicate to me Mr. Zimmerman is more likely to have shot the young gentleman out of concerns other than personal safety. If the word was "democrats" then I would not arrive at the same conclusion. Or perhaps it was the phrase "wall street bankers." Its crucial to know this word.

Another point, is the mother should be also facing the grand jury for naming a human child Trayvon. It is absolute child abuse. That is a name one comes up with, in order to guarantee the child will not go to college and have a career. Larger society will eschew individuals named Trayvon. Nobody named Trayvon will be president of anything. Now, one might argue that Barrack is also an unusual name, which presented no obstacle to our current Commander In Chief. However, Barrack is not nearly as "ghetto" as Trayvon. And you must keep in mind that the President will only win re-election by a slim to moderate margin because the Republican nominee will be named "Mitt." Had President Obama been named Trayvon, he would not have even been accepted to law school. Had President Obama been named Duke Smithington III, he would win by a landslide.

Here is a hate crime story so bad it made news in the UK but not on US national media a 13yo boy set fire to in Kansas

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110078/Boy-13-doused-gasoline-set-alight-racially-motivated-attack-Kansas-City.html

Oh wait the attackers where black and the victim white. Its not told because they dont like how everyone has been buying guns since Eric Holder gave guns to criminals with fast/furious

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/18/Holder-Fight-Guns-Like-Cigarettes

This case is just like Julius Johnson an unarmed 16yo black teen shot dead in the middle of a school day this january in Reading PA by a white guy who got to keep his guy. I guess the reason you havent heard about it is that johnson was skipping school, had robed someone else, and had an ankle bracelete from probation.

how on earth is Trayvon Martin's case "just like" the Julious Johnson case (http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=361731)??

Martin hadn't robbed anyone (as Johnson had), Martin wasn't on probation (as Johnson was), and Martin wasn't skipping school beating up random people during the daytime (as Johnson was).

These two cases are about as different as one can possibly imagine. How on earth did Zimmerman commit "justifiable homicide" when is it HE who ran Martin down?!?

Here is a hate crime story so bad it made news in the UK but not on US national media a 13yo boy set fire to in Kansas

First of all, that story IS getting attention so you can't say "it's not in the US media" (just google it, plenty of stories), and second of all, the POLICE ARE INVESTIGATING THAT INCIDENT!! Yes, it is no less horrific than the sad story of Trayvon Martin, but the police here weren't investigating Zimmerman.

That is why this story is garnering such outrage, because the cops weren't doing anything about an unarmed kid getting gunned down in a neighborhood he had every right to be in!

{:sigh: I suppose I shouldn't bother responding to racist trolls.}

To Maze, Peggy and any others that weren't understanding Scott:

He quoted someone's post and was just notifying them that their opinion on the "KKK grand juries" doesn't stand as the victim, Trayvon, was black and the shooter, Zimmerman, was hispanic. I don't think he was implying anything racially. He was clarifying.

Either way, I pray for Trayvon's family and friends. Trayvon was the victim and deserves justice! As previously stated, you can't chase someone and then claim the "Stand Your Ground" law. Zimmerman had the opportunity to move on (As he stated in the 911 call, he was suppose to be going to meet up with the police. Why did he chase this kid)

To Maze, Peggy and any others that weren't understanding Scott:

He quoted someone's post and was just notifying them that their opinion on the "KKK grand juries" doesn't stand as the victim, Trayvon, was black and the shooter, Zimmerman, was hispanic. I don't think he was implying anything racially. He was clarifying.

Either way, I pray for Trayvon's family and friends. Trayvon was the victim and deserves justice! As previously stated, you can't chase someone and then claim the "Stand Your Ground" law. Zimmerman had the opportunity to move on (As he stated in the 911 call, he was suppose to be going to meet up with the police. Why did he chase this kid)

Sounds like damage control.

The Justice Department investigation will review whether Zimmerman, 28, violated any federal civil rights statutes when he shot Martin, who was not carrying any weapons when he was killed.

I get a kick out of this pull the race card garbage. If the young man happened to be white and the shooter being black, we would not hear the slightest hint of concern from the Justice Department.

WMG, Nico, Chris,

I find your thinking to be, at best, way too black and white. This law would work, if the world really did consist only of the "good guys" and the "bad guys". Unfortunately, there are gray areas too. The fact that we have only mere seconds, is cause enough to be leery of a law like this. "Threat" is an ambiguous term, that different people apply differently. There is no universal agreement on what constitutes a threat. There are adequate self defense laws in place that allow us to protect ourselves. This is unneccessary, and yes unjust, and most likely illegal.

What happens when you misperceive a threat and shoot someone? What happens when you use "I was threatened" as an excuse?

We do not live in a vigilante society. We live in a society of laws.

I get a kick out of this pull the race card garbage. If the young man happened to be white and the shooter being black, we would not hear the slightest hint of concern from the Justice Department.

Yes, because Florida would already have the shooter on death row.

DrowningGrover - you've aptly proven my point. Thank you. Nothing in my post or Steven's was racist. To point out truth is not racist. To identify how Media chooses what to report based on sensationalism is sad. And no, the story about the boy in Kansas has not been on the Media to the same extent as this case. Steven has shown more examples of the double standard we have in the United States, yet you close your eyes and throw out the race card when you have no facts.

Me, I'm still waiting for the facts, something we will not see today or anytime soon. Remember, "innocent until proven guilty?" Or does that magically disappear when more than one race is involved?

"but as you can see from the links and its citations, mr. zimmerman has a history of criminal records, animosity toward black men, did not follow the instructions by the police, violated neighborhood watch guidelines and did not appear to be threatened by the victim."

I saw this on the news last night; They, like the article, stated that Zimmerman was not arrested. I saw his picture, which looked like a mug shot with him wearing an orange shirt, and wondered how they got a pic like that...........

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Sugar!

Police declined to arrest Zimmerman, citing Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, enacted in 2005 and now in effect in at least 16 other states.

Dubbed "Shoot first (ask questions later)" by opponents, the Florida law allows a potential crime victim who is "in fear of great bodily injury" to use deadly force in public places.

"stand your ground" law in FL and "make my day" law in AZ are both intended for the purpose of empowering victims and to not let them be victims of the justice system IF they are truly protecting themselves in the act of deadly force. What Zimmerman did would be the equivalent of luring someone into your home to confront them only to kill them and say the "make my day" law applied.

It would be one thing if no one witnessed what happened. Even if the investigation pointed to inconclusive evidence of an attack by Trayvon. It would be suspicious, but at least police and the DA would have had an excuse to not make an arrest in that scenario. But the cops had Zimmerman admitting he was pursuing the boy on the 911 call even after he was told not to. They have witnesses contradicting Zimmerman's account!!!! How do the police have the audacity to say that "stand your ground" still applies????

The killer might get off under Florida's "MAKE-MY-DAY" law. It says you never have to retreat one inch from a threat, and you can kill if you are afraid. It does NOT say you lose this protection if you chased down the victim and threatened him with a gun first. The law encourages killing and protects killers. Sanford police cited the law and did not refer the killing of an innocent youth to the DA for investigation. See comment #37 below to let us know you YOU feel.

ISeeYouSeeingMe - I dont think ANY of us turned it into a race thing.

I think the shooter did.

Hispanic = White, especially in a lot of white peoples eyes and a lot of hispanic peoples eyes.

I know quite a few people who's father is mexican and mother is white, and they consider themselves white before considering themselves latino. And they can be just as racist as any white person.

Just like I know some gay people who are homophobic - figure that huh?

It comes down to how you are raised. If you grew up hating on gays but end up being gay yourself, it's quite the interesting outcome to say the least.

Imagine being hispanic and growing up racist?

I think we can see the end result of that cant we - one messed up individual, there's little else to say.

of course, then there's mr zimmermans own words (zimmerman sounds really hispanic doesnt it? no...it doesnt)

"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about," Zimmerman told dispatchers, adding, "These @!$%#s. They always get away."

I wonder what the bleeped out word was...and what was he meaning by THESE?

Why do you trolls (I can only assume you are trolls.....normal people just couldn't be that 'out-of-touch') keep pulling up the race thing?? This is not about race, but about a kid just walking home from the store at 7:00 in the evening, on the sidewalk, minding his own business, and being gunned down by a crazy person! It wasn't 4 in the morning....he wasn't lurking in the shadows, and he wasn't bother anybody! It's unconcionable that anybody would be on the side of the lunatic with the gun. Even though I don't know all the facts, I just want somebody to truly investigate this shooting....or this nut will be out there free to do it again!

STOOPID - "Nobody named Trayvon will be president of anything."

explain to me how Timothy, Jonathan, Matthew and Joshua arent equally as stupid names?

it's just they've been around so long we dont notice how dumb they look.

Or maybe we're so dumb, thats why we shorten them...who can pronounce JOSHUA anyway?

They should have just named him Tray huh? So much easier.

Really, 4 letters should be the max.

I dont know how i've gotten this far in life named Jessica.

Oh thats right, I go by JESS - must be why im successful.

All the idiots can say my name.

STOOPID - youre moniker couldnt be any more appropriate really

So hows Barack Obama doing these days? He's President of the United States?

you dont say...even with that funny looking name huh?

There are some real problems with this case, which is why the Feds and the Grand Jury are getting involved. The initial decision to arrest/not arrest is for the police on the scene to make. The prosecuting attorney will usually not override without a grand jury investigation. The attorney has to work with the police and the alternative is for them to arrest everyone, clog the system and force the prosecutor to make all the decisions.

The prosecutor also has to run for reelection. This is a difficult case. You only have Zimmerman's side of the story. Martin is dead. Maybe he did threaten Zimmerman, we'll never know the truth of that. The prosecutor will be forced to confront the apparent racist motivation of Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman just didn't like any teenagers. The prosecutor will also have to deal with the fact that Zimmerman put himself into a confrontational situation. That may negate the "Stand your ground" defense.

If, somehow, Zimmerman gets away with this because of the Stand your ground law, the Feds will still be able to look at the situation and determine if Zimmerman's actions were excessive use of force, depriving Martin of his civil rights, including the right to live. The Stand your Ground defense does not apply in federal court.

@ Stevefoo, I couldn't agree more. Just because this involves two different races does not mean the crime was committed due to race. He may or may not be racist, but how would any of us known by the information we are provided. I do know that this man called 911 over 40 times on New Years alone. He clearly has mental issues.

"I know quite a few people who's father is mexican and mother is white, and they consider themselves white before considering themselves latino. And they can be just as racist as any white person."

True, true.

I too, know people who are of mixed race (and who doesn't know someone.....). The biggest problem with these people is: whichever race is more beneficial to them (at that time) is what they tell people. Example: applying for a job: "I'm white". Applying for welfare: "I'm black". Sad, I know.

Please don't attack me; I don't do this.

DrowningGrover - you've aptly proven my point. Thank you. Nothing in my post or Steven's was racist. To point out truth is not racist.

You have a funny version of "truth." All, from post #1.34:

What we know is the neighborhood watch captain of a gated community ...(he was visiting his baby dad)... looking in windows caseing houses...

The captain would have asked how the thug got in and the thug chimped out on him ...

The picture of the thug is from when he was 12....

This is another jena 6 event where the press only listens to the mom and babydady....

yeah, no racism in that post at all :rollseyes:

What's worse, is you apparently don't even recognize it. You people think your posts get collapsed because "people can't handle the truth," when in reality they get collapsed because they're filled with hateful, racist, nonsense and the entire community recognizes it.

And no, the story about the boy in Kansas has not been on the Media to the same extent as this case.

well yah, because the police ARE INVESTIGATING THAT CASE AND LOOKING FOR THE CULPRIT, something they were not doing here when the shooter was well known. This case has garnered such public attention because the Sanford PD threw up their hands and said "black kid dead, the shooter claims self-defense, nothing to see here folks, move along..."

Steven has shown more examples of the double standard we have in the United States

It's not a double standard at all. All the the cases SteveM has highlighted have attracted significant outrage in their own communities. This one only went national because of the conduct, or lack thereof, of the cops. The shooting happened on Feb. 26th mind you, and Zimmerman still has not been charged with anything despite mountains of evidence against him.

Me, I'm still waiting for the facts, something we will not see today or anytime soon. Remember, "innocent until proven guilty?" Or does that magically disappear when more than one race is involved?

Much of the facts in this case are already out, as again, the shooting occurred more than 3 weeks ago.

@Steve "the moron":

First of all the story you bring out doesn't end up with a dead child. Secondly the assailants are unknown and being searched out so that they can be prosecuted. Third this wasn't the case of an adult with a gun shooting dead an unarmed teen, this is the case of two kids attacking another. That has nothing to do with this. Get your head out of your @#$ bring up a story that actually relates and then we will discuss it!

"A true man, who is without fault, is not obliged to fly from an assailant, who by violence or surprise, maliciously seeks to take his life or do him enormous bodily harm." ~ U.S. Supreme Court, 1895

*****************

George Zimmerman claims the screams for help were his. George Zimmerman claims he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.

If George Zimmerman's story is true, then he had every right to shoot in self defense. The police apparently believe it to be true. That will make it difficult, it would seem, to prosecute, for as everyone knows, people are assumed to be innocent unless proven guilty. The presumption of innocence, when reinforced by investigating officers at the scene, should be plenty sufficient to exonerate this man. Mob mentality not withstanding.

Although we don't know if this was racially motivated, I do believe if the teen was white he would not have been followed and shot dead! And race always plays a role when you see a pattern of injustice happening to the same race of people over and over again.

Jessica:

You can hear all of the 911 calls in their entirety if you look it up. The bleeped out word is a-holes. But again, you can hear ALL of the 911 calls by searching for them.

The presumption of innocence, when reinforced by investigating officers at the scene, should be plenty sufficient to exonerate this man

Yes, the presumption of innocence that these laws deny to anyone who can be termed a "threat". I wonder who we as a society prejudicially see as threatening???? Hmmmm, well, it's not people who look like me, is it?

George Zimmerman claims the screams for help were his.

And multiple witnesses have stated otherwise. Hmm, who should we believe? The unbiased witnesses, or the guy who shot another man and has every reason in the world to cover it up.

George Zimmerman claims he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.

If that's true, and Trayvon snuck up on Zimmerman's truck as he checked a streetsign, then why was Trayvon's body found in a back yard and not near Zimmerman's truck?

And if Trayvon were planning on jumping Zimmerman, then why did he make a phone call to a friend detailing how scared he was of the dude following him?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10774247-trayvon-martins-final-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2jGpdnLtMg

The presumption of innocence, when reinforced by investigating officers at the scene, should be plenty sufficient to exonerate this man. Mob mentality to the contrary.

Dude, the officers didn't even perform a drug/alcohol test as is supposed to be done on a person involved in an apparent homicide. They WEREN'T investigating, hence why the feds had to step in.

In this case, Mob Mentality is right, George Zimmerman is guilty as sin...

I suppose there is also a threat when one is attacked from behind.

It is rather hard to imagine a fight ensuing if young Trayvon simply says, 'Hello, sir. My name is Trayvon, and I'm just here to visit my friend in that house right there.'

Innocent men have been lynched because of mob mentality. You were not there, Sarah, so I am guessing you find George Zimmerman innocent - just as the police determined - unless any additional evidence is forthcoming.

@DrowningGrover and anybody else,

"George Zimmerman claims he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck.

If that's true, and Trayvon snuck up on Zimmerman's truck as he checked a streetsign, then why was Trayvon's body found in a back yard and not anywhere near Zimmerman's truck?

And if Trayvon were planning on jumping Zimmerman, then why did he make a phone call to a friend detailing how scared he was of the dude following him?"

I would like to add a point to this:

If Zimmerman was the captain of his neighborhood watch, wouldn't he KNOW the streets of his 'hood WITHOUT looking at streets signs? I know mine...............

......and I'm not a captain of a "watch" group.

@Jessica: As a 'Hispanic' 'white' let me say that whoever decided to come up with terminologies for race, in general, is an idiot. Or in this case, several idiots.

You can be Hispanic and black. You can be Hispanic and white. You can be Hispanic, and lots of colors. The racist themselves morons who have tried to come up with some sort of 'race' of people who have a particular skin color decided that if you have a particular mix with a native indigenous population based somewhere south of the United States, that it means you are automatically a descendent of that population and people from Spain. It is obviously a fail on so many levels it is stupid.

But don't put it past our society to hold onto stupid terms! We love our pidgeon holing! God, what would we have to do to actually bother to describe how someone looks! Can't we just stereotype everything and come up with some funny, if harmful, jokes!

It shouldn't be a surprise that the term 'Hispanic' or 'Latino' or any other term to describe a mixture of cultures is a complete waste of time. Sort of like trying to come up with a race called 'American' or 'Texan' or 'Denverite' Why should you refer to yourself as being a descendant of Phoenix predominantly? Does that make you a racist?

I've never come up with a solution, except that people can describe how people look like without dumb terms referring to their ex-geography or nationality. And if someone wants to associate themselves with a nationality, geography, or race, its up to them.

Law enforcement is a whole separate issue. But nobody here is trying to catch a criminal with time being of essence. So let's stop pretending we need to use the terms they do in everyday life.

Freedman,

The evidence that we know of supports not one single word of Zimmerman's story. That means, I want the police to investigate further, and if they're not doing their job, than I want the feds to step in.

You know, when kids show up shot to death, and the person who claims responsibility has a story that is in conflict with the evidence, that person usually at least stands trial.

You're either willfully ignorant, or flamingly racist. Read DrowningGrover's post, #1.92, right above your second one and look into the rest of the evidence. This case is a perfect illustration of everything I find wrong with these laws.

"He's here now just looking at all the houses. Now he's just staring at me...He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?" - 911 call from Zimmerman

"Our investigation is color blind and based on the facts and circumstances, not color." - Chief Bill Lee, Sanford Police

"Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy at Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or on drugs or something." - George Zimmerman, 911 call

Neighborhood watch captain, Why was he carrying a gun to start with? He is supposed to call for police,not confront any criminals that might be in the area.

So Sarah, you have generously given two choices for somebody who believes in innocent until proven guilty - willfully ignorant, or flamingly racist.

Helluva choice, huh? How did you become omnicient? And what choices do you have available for the Chief of Police?

HELLO? Hello? hello?

Does anybody see me? (mock sniffle)

Freedman,

Okay, or your both. Willfully ignorant and flamingly racist, that is.

Yes, because all that's needed is for the police to say they're colorblind, than they can do whatever they want without being racist, right. I mean they said they aren't. And why wouldn't we believe everything Zimmerman said than and now, it's not like he has anything to lose. Absolutely, we should take him 100% on his word, no investigation needed.

In fact, from here on out let's suspend the entire judicial and law enforcement process and simply just trust each other. "Oh officer, the store clerk wanted me to have these Jimmy Choo shoes for free."

How wonderful it must be to live in your world. Tell me, do farts smell like flowers there too?

You don't believe in innocent until proven guilty, otherwise you would apply it to both Trayvon and Zimmerman. And how can we "prove him guilty" without an investigation? Of course, you seem to just take him at his word, but for the rest of us, his word isn't sounding too great in light of the other evidence.

Willfully ignorant is probably easier to cure, unless it's a symptom of flamingly racist. Go look at the rest of the posts and evidence.

By the time police arrived, Martin was dead, with a gunshot wound in the chest. Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head and had wet grass stains on his red jacket. He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.

A witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while Zimmerman yelled for help. One witness said he came upon the scene and saw Zimmerman on his back on the ground, which accords with statements by the police that he was covered in grass and blood.

'Tell me, do farts smell like flowers there too?'

Classy Sarah. Quite the lady.

"What we seem to have here is an idiot that more than likely assumed that the 17 year old was a criminal. Standing your ground and pursuing someone are two different things."

Very true. The law in AZ (and I assume in Florida also), allows you to use deadly force in a situation where a reasonable person would feel they were in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm. Once the threat no longer exists, you are not justified in using deadly force (as an Oklahoma City pharmacist found out the hard way.) I don't see any justification for shooting this kid. If he had no weapons, it's hard to see how he could be construed as an imminent threat.

"Yes, the presumption of innocence that these laws deny to anyone who can be termed a "threat"

Sorry Sarah, it don't work that way. If I were to pull the trigger on somebody, I had better have a damn good reason for it, and be prepared to back my contention up. Accusing them of being a "threat" with no supporting evidence, simply won't wash.

Simply put, it should not be a problem for anyone that the FBI looks into this. We can all go to conclusions based on what we've heard, but there isn't a reason for the FBI NOT to get involved, given what could have happened as a crime. And i'll add that 'stand your ground' is probably as dumb worded a law as you can find. Likely part of the problem and not the solution.

People already had their mind made up when they read yesterday's headline. No point trying to discuss this story with people who's only conclusion is your racist if you don't agree with me. Race only has something to do with this because everyone assumes that was the motive and could be the only logical answer.

Freedman,

Well Freedman, that's me, always the lady. Perhaps you're a touch sexist too? What, only boys get to talk about farts, if girls do it we aren't classy or ladies?

Everything Zimmerman said on those tapes is ambigous, up for interpretation, and should be investigated. Why are you so willing to simply take him on his word?

In addition...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/16/the-cruel-fatethat-came-to-an-average-kid-trayvon-martin.html

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-call-zimmerman-slur-20120320_1_racial-slur-fatal-shooting-racial-epithet

StoneCold,

Sorry Sarah, it don't work that way. If I were to pull the trigger on somebody, I had better have a damn good reason for it, and be prepared to back my contention up. Accusing them of being a "threat" with no supporting evidence, simply won't wash.

Than obviously you should have a problem with this law, because that is exactly what was washing until the national media got involved.

This law creates situations where that can wash.

The FBI does not investigate murder. They will investigate possible civil rights violations.

How does one get bleeding from the back of the head?

Grass stains and blood on the back of the jacket?

And a bloody nose?

Witnesses that saw gentle young Trayvon sitting on top of Zimmerman pounding away, and Zimmerman crying out for help?

If I'm in that circumstance, and if I'm carrying, I will also be using.

Stoopid.....Really??? That's the kind of mind-numbing stupidity that perpetuates the racism... I am not even sure if it was posted toungue-in-cheek - but maybe that's why you don't post your real name... a$$hole...and Steve M that goes for you too...

You don't know, either, freedman, so take your own advice and stop jumping to conclusions.

BobbyJones,

If you aren't a racist and really just in support of this law, you'll want this to be thoroughly investigated. It's making this law and the proponents of it look, at best, really blindly naive. If you truly support these laws you'll want the book thrown at Zimmerman if he's lying and the only way to find that out is to investigate.

Freedman,

Yes, and it will be a civil rights violation if the police are being willfully negligent, or not applying equal protection.

HATR_HURTER,

The Stand Your Ground law is a terrible idea. It emboldens people to escalate a situation to generate a reason to use their weapon when otherwise they could diffuse it or simply leave. Very rarely is it ever used the way that it was intended.

@ Bobby Jones Bia....true, true....folks on their respective soapboxes, putting forth a long list of contradicting stories concerning the events that led up to the killing, intermingled with the race card thrown out at every turn. No point wasting any more time here........

Why is farting even in the conversation-from a guy or a girl?

Miss. Deanna,

Because I have a facetious and sarcastic streak. I believe after reading his posts, I asked him if farts also smell like flowers in his world. He seems to have a rather rosy view of things.

Well Freedman, that's me, always the lady. Perhaps you're a touch sexist too? What, only boys get to talk about farts, if girls do it we aren't classy or ladies?

Sarah, can you find some other accusations? Ignorant, racist, sexist. Is that it?

You are free to speak about farts whenever you want, although I don't find it germane to this conversation. If you feel that fart references are classy, and the mark of a lady, then who am I to disagree?

Awww, the name StoneCold; That remains me of two things:

1) A song by Robert Palmer from the cd Rhythm & Blues.

2) On General Hospital, isn't that what the little dweeb calles Jason Morgan?

Folks, if Zimmerman had blood on the back of his head, how did it get there. Did he hit himself on the back of the head and roll in the dirt to cover up a racial shooting. That sounds entirely far fetched.

Trayvon called his friend and told him someone was watching him. Trayvon saw the guy get out of his truck to check something and hit him. That is less far fetched.

For the person that mentioned knowing the street signs. Have you ever driven down the street and looked up to see that the street sign your approaching is covered by something, tree limb, spraypaint, what ever, and stopped to check and make sure of your location.

I do think it should be investigated. It was once already. Even with that said I think it should be investigated again. What I don't think should be happening is the race circus this is turning into. There have been so many wrong assumptions and accusations made over the last two days it's as equally disgusting as racism it self.

I think Zimmerman did his job by alerting authorities to a suspect he thought was suspicious. He was a neighborhood watchmen in a neighborhood that has had recent break ins. I don't think this action of calling 911 or what transpired after was because of race. I think it was because Zimmerman already had his mind made up that this individual was up to no good regardless of race.

I also think Zimmerman was wrong for getting out of his car period. It was his job to notify authorities not to play policeman and pursue the suspect. He made some bad decisions and could have avoided the situation entirely. None of us know what happened after he got out of the car. I think there should be a trial and I hope there are witnesses. A person was killed and a trial should be had.

How does one get bleeding from the back of the head?

Grass stains and blood on the back of the jacket?

And a bloody nose?

No one argues that there was a physical altercation, but it's who started it that matters. Clearly, from the 911 tapes, Zimmerman started it when he left his truck to chase down Trayvon. You can't pick a fight and then shoot someone claiming self-defense when the fight isn't going the way you wanted it to. That's not self-defense, that's homicide.

Witnesses that saw gentle young Trayvon sitting on top of Zimmerman pounding away, and Zimmerman crying out for help?

Actually, the witnesses claimed they believed it was Trayvon crying "help." They also did not identify whom was on top of whom, not that it would matter as Zimmerman was the aggressor.

Farts stink.

I like pretty shoes.

Does that help? Or have I destroyed both my ladyhood and manliness in one fell swoop?

Freedman,

I can only find the accusations which you so poorly hide.

Derek,

Of course you think farts stink and I bet you don't simply take people who shoot to death 17 year old boys at their word with no investigations either.

And, as I've said before, who doesn't like pretty shoes.

"I asked him if farts also smell like flowers in his world. He seems to have a rather rosy view of things."

Yeah, I got that. (No blonde here)

"Because I have a facetious and sarcastic streak"

LOL

(Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy! Sumbody saw meh!)

"Awww, the name StoneCold; That remains me of two things:"

Oops, sorry! That should be reminds.

In my opinion, this isn't nearly as much about race as it is about vigilante justice.

Well, yes and no. There are different levels of racism. The shooter may not be a raving KKK member and he may even have HAD black friends. Who knows? However.....do you think if this kid was white and dressed in a preppy sweater he would be dead now? I doubt it. Everyone has prejudices. It's unavoidable. You can fight them in yourself or you can let them take you over as this man did. People deserve the benefit of the doubt because everyone has a colored view of the world which is sometimes wrong.

DrowningGrover - Here is an article from Fox News -- http://tinyurl.com/7joryws

Witnesses clearly see young Trayvon beating up Zimmerman, with Zimmerman yelling for help.

Sarah-3043284 and DrowningGrover,

Excellent posts - Keep up the good work :)

---------------------------

freedman1,

LOL - FAUXNewz ... you posted that link as if it's a legitimate news source, or something ...

freedman:

So when let me understand this: A heavily panting Zimmerman is asked if he is following this 'suspicious (black) person' and he said he was. He is told 'we don't need you to do that' but he refuses to call off his pursuit and only after this call does he get out of his car (why was he breathing so heavily?) he approaches Trayvon (who at this point is 70 feet from his fathers door) and he gets bruttaly beatten by Trayvon (140 lbs) Zimmerman (250 lbs) is pinned on his back getting wailed on by Martin, pleading for help and pulls out a pistol and in the midst of getting pounded on fires a single kill shot into the chest of Trayvon. Notice it didn't take multiple shots like you would have go off in a tussle, it was one clear, precise kill shot right into the chest of the young man. To pull this shot off while getting pounded on is very difficult for highly trained carriers, if Zimmerman had the ability to pull that shot off he definately had the ability to hold off someone 110 pounds smaller. You are as ignorant as they come. The entire altercation started when Zimmerman REFUSED to follow the directions of the 911 operator and call off his pursuit. You can't run into trouble and then claim self defense. In your stupid little mind Trayvon when approached should have dropped to his knees, spread his legs, turn over all of his information and wait for this stranger to clear him on his way? By not following that formula he was rightfully gunned down? I pray that you don't have children!

"For the person that mentioned knowing the street signs. Have you ever driven down the street and looked up to see that the street sign your approaching is covered by something, tree limb, spraypaint, what ever, and stopped to check and make sure of your location."

Is this for me, Sugar? If yes, I would asnwer you this way: In a strange/unfamilair neighborhood, yes. In MY neighborhood, no. I KNOW the streets in my 'hood. So well that if I was standing mid-block on my cell talking to the police, I could tell them exactly where I was. I wouldn't have to go to the corner & look at the street sign.

It seems odd (to me) that the captain of a watch group wouldn't know the streets where he lives.

Honestly, let's just be super duper LC (Legally Correct) and say Zimmerman is made of gold and has done nothing wrong....which is a stretch of the imagination for me, but FINE. Given the circumstances of this thing, there really is a question I have of local and state police performance and I am glad the FBI is investigating. Hell, I think Casey Anthony is guilty as sin even though she was found innocent. But I accept that it was due process and that if I blame anyone in her case, it should really be the prosecutor.

Having said that, I think we can safely express biases knowing that nobody here plans on being the jury. And if something stinks here, its Zimmerman's position.

SteveM said:

What we know is the neighborhood watch captain of a gated community

Yes, that'sa fact, Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain of a gated community.

who would have known all the member, saw someone who was not a member(he was visiting his baby dad) looking in windows caseing houses from the first 911 call.

He did see someone who was not a resident (visiting) walking back from the corner store and looking around him. Not sure how you get 'casing houses' from that, he wasn't photographing entrances and exits, hard to do that when you have a bottle of iced tea and a pack of skittles in your hand.

The captain would have asked how the thug got in

No, according to the 911 tapes, Zimmerman never approached Martin and asked anything. He kept following the child despite the 911 operator telling him to cease and desist.

and the thug chimped out on him, so the captain defended himself.

According to the the 911 tape recordings and the calls from martin himself to his friend, Zimmerman was following him so he walked a little faster. When Zimmerman started chasing him he started to run. Zimmerman finally cornered him and began to struggle with the child, who then started to call for help. Cries for help from Martin were heard not only by the 911 operator but also apparently by several nearby residents. At no point is Zimmerman ever recorded asking for help or indicate in any way that his life was in danger.

Miss Deanna,

It seems odd to me too. :)

tke29 - You may not know this, but fat people are not the best fighters most of the time. And in close contact, there really isn't much aiming involved. You pull the trigger, you will hit the target.

Miss Deanna bring up a good point. Zimmerman REGULARLY patrols the streets in his neighborhood and has already reported some 41 other 'cases' this short year alone. Do you honestly think he doesn't no the streets in this neighboorhood that he regularly patrols and reports incidents on?

"I would asnwer you"

Oh, have mercy! I clearly can't type today.

Amanda, one of the witnesses right on the scene says it was Zimmerman crying for help. That has been corroborated by others. The poor young child just happened to be beating a guy with a pistol.

http://tinyurl.com/3y953l8

DrowningGrover - Here is an article from Fox News -- http://tinyurl.com/7joryws

Witnesses clearly see young Trayvon beating up Zimmerman, with Zimmerman yelling for help.

Hell, i'll take the Fox News article that vfeinstein won't. A couple things. (1) that is ONE witnesses account, other witnesses claim Martin was yelling for help. You can hear crys for "help" on the 911 tapes, so they'll figure out who was yelling IF they investigate this crime (which Sanford PD was not, hence why the feds stepped in).

Also, some of the witnesses claim they were coached by police to state that Zimmerman cried for help after they told police Martin was calling out. We don't really know, we may never know for sure.

What we DO know is that Zimmerman got out of his truck (ignoring the directive of 911 dispatch) and followed Martin into neighborhood yards on foot (his excuse of getting out of his truck to check for a streetsign is clearly BS. You don't go into someone's backyard to look for a street sign). Because of the cell phone call Martin made to his friend, we KNOW that Martin was skeptical of the man following him and was trying to get away (we also know Martin ran away because Zimmerman says in HIS OWN 911 call "@!$%#, he's running" before getting out of his truck to chase on foot). If you listen to the 911 call Zimmerman made, it's ridiculously obvious that he didn't get out of his truck to "check a streetsign" but rather to chase Martin.

So Zimmerman followed Martin, therefore Zimmerman is CLEARLY the aggressor and any claims of self-defense go out the window. Again, you can't pick a fight, and then shoot the person you chased down claiming self-defense just because he's whipping your a$$. Even if Zimmerman turned a corner into the backyard and got cold-cocked by a hiding Martin, MARTIN WAS STILL ACTING IN SELF-DEFENSE as he was fighting off a strange assailant following him. Or does Martin not get to "stand his ground" too?

The poor young child just happened to be beating a guy with a pistol.

Total hypothetical BS on your part. If Martin, who didn't have a pistol, got a hold of Zimmermans gun to beat him with it, then how did Zimmerman get it back to shoot him? Someone being pistol-whipped generally goes down quickly and with more than a bloody nose.

Thanx Sarah

........and thanx to tke29 also.

It looks like we both need to slow our typing a bit. lol

DrowningGrover,

I agree with most of what you are saying. However if Martin felt threatened why didn't he call 911 instead calling friends? Or instead of fighting a man he assumed was suspicious as well?

There are so many variables to this story it really doesn't matter what we think. Just hope the court gets it right.

I agree with most of what you are saying. However if Martin felt threatened why didn't he call 911 instead calling friends? Or instead of fighting a man he assumed was suspicious as well?

I agree, he should have called 911 first. But ultimately it doesn't matter as it doesn't change the facts of the case.

freedman:

Zimmerman was not just a fat man but one going to school for criminal justice and hoping to become a police officer. You want to honestly believe that he couldn't help but be taken down and pounded on by someone 110 lbs smaller. Do you know how hard it is to take down someone even 50 lbs larger than you? If he was this helpless fat man how did he in the midst of this tussle even manage to get his gun out? Let's focus on the facts...Trayvon had NO RECORD...Zimmerman in 2005 was charged with resisting arrest and violence and battery on an officer. Witnesses (a teacher) say they hear a TEEN screaming for help (listen to the pitch of the screamer then listen to Zimmerman's call) officers corrected them saying it was Zimmerman crying for help. A 13 year old walking his dog (2nd witness) said the same that the teen (which makes sense to be 100 lbs smaller and in a fight) was crying for help. A third witness said they heard a 'despondent boy' scream for help. The only witness supporting Zimmerman was the one that won't show his face and who saw clear colors in the middle of a raining night.

Is this for me, Sugar? If yes, I would asnwer you this way: In a strange/unfamilair neighborhood, yes. In MY neighborhood, no. I KNOW the streets in my 'hood. So well that if I was standing mid-block on my cell talking to the police, I could tell them exactly where I was. I wouldn't have to go to the corner & look at the street sign.

It seems odd (to me) that the captain of a watch group wouldn't know the streets where he lives.

Good point. Zimmerman had to get out of his truck and go into a backyard to check a streetsign, but gave PERFECT directions to 911 dispatch detailing that they "have to go left from the clubhouse, past the mailboxes, etc." (I'm paraphrasing) to get to where he's at.

Listen to his own 911 call, he seems to know the neighborhood just fine...

DrowningGrover - that article mentioned one witness, name of John, that saw Zimmerman screaming.

A 911 call produces another--

"My brother said someone got shot behind our house," McLendon's older sister told a 911 dispatcher. "I heard something and then my brother ran into the house," she said.

"Is your brother there?" the dispatcher asks.

"He's next to me," she says.

"Okay, can you give him the phone?"

Austin comes on the line: "I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help, that was screaming and then I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, so I went and got my dog, and then I heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped."

The dispatcher asks: "Did you see the person get shot? Did you know the person that was shot, or did you see the person that had the gun?"

"No, I just heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped," Austin replied.

freedman:

Fat people may not be good fighters but this wasn't a fight as much as a wrestling match. The 140 lb (6-3" means he was VERY THIN) teen could in no way take the shorter (lower center of gravity) much heavier (250 lbs) man to the ground, mount him and begin pounding on him. You have to be an ignorant bigot to even fathom that story to be possible.

Bobby Jones:

Not everyone thinks to call 911 everytime they see something suspicious. Judging from the Sanford police department it wouldn't have done much good anyways.

freedman:

You are an idiot. This witness says he saw a man who 'needed help' being beaten by a young black man in his neighborhood. He was going to help this man but his dog got away so he went to chase after his dog instead? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I call bull@#$%!

freedman:

"I heard a loud sound and the screaming stopped"

Sounds like the scremer got shot! If I was screaming for my life to the point of having to shoot someone else I'd still be screaming from sheer panic for quite a while.

DrowningGrover - you're right. My sentence construction was lacking. I should have said - The poor young child just happened to be beating a guy who was packing a gun.

So, how does Florida Law handle the situation of you owning an attack dog and someone breaks in and sets off the silent alarm and shoots and kills the dog "in self-defense?" before the Police arrive? Or, how does Florida Law handle if you own an attack dog and it gets loose and goes into a neighbor's backyard and attacks someone? What if it kills someone? What if your "attack weapon" attacks or kills someone who is minding their own business just walking home? Is the owner of the "weapon" responsible? How about if the owner purposely releases the attack dog into the neighborhood? after the Police have told him not to? Do they capture the killer (owner) and at least first incarcerate it (under probable cause? one dead body and one death-creating gun in the posession of the shooter, at the scene, and one foreboding 911 call?) until it is deemed what should and will, if anything, happen to the attacker/killer? Black/White/Human/Dog, the dynamic is still undeniably the same.

No not everyone would call 911 for a suspicion, however if you feel like you are being followed and threatened you should be calling 911.

Tke, the point is there are witnesses who corroborate the story of George Zimmerman. Zimmerman was found bleeding from the back of the head, with blood and grass stains on his back, and a bloody nose.

Zimmerman claims he was attacked, and apparently he was. At any rate, the police think so. Given the presumption of innocence that exists in this country, it is absurd for mob mentality to call for the man's life. A grand jury investigation, or a civil rights investigation may or may not turn up any further evidence, but from what we have on record, there seems hardly enough evidence to convict this man, let alone arrest him.

How many times while you were in high scool did you call 911? I can say there have been times that I may have heard sounds or seen suspiscious people and I never think to call 911. What you don't understand is there is a disconnect between african american citizens and police forces for incidents like this and many others despite the fact that Trayvon had a crystal clear record and was an A and B student. Obviously the police didn't respond quick enough even if they were called because Zimmerman called them well before Trayvon would have and the murder happened anyways.

On CNN they just reported Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend. She reports the call was dropped at 7:16 and she was talking to him at that time. The police report notes police arrived on the scene at 7:17. This is all going to be he said she said. I don't think there are really any credible witnesses. Like I said before my concern is the court gets it right.

Disconnect or not with law enforcement. If he would of called 911 there would have been a record to his side of the story. 911 doesn't ask what your race is either, they ask about the person you are reporting.

freedman1:

This is what we have on record:

FACT: Zimmerman reported a suspicous person to police and after beginging to follow him he was told not to.

FACT: Zimmerman followed the person ANYWAYS and did so in an obviously upset state (these a--holes always get away). Zimmerman believed this person guilty already and was out to be a vigilante (armed with a Tek 9)

FACT: A fight broke out as a result of Zimmerman not staying in his car and following Trayvon.

FACT: During the fight a 250 lb man felt his life so threatened by a 140 lb teenager that he pulled his firearm out and shot him once in his chest.

OPINION: Police say Mr. Zimmerman sounded drunk on the call.

FACT: No alchohol or drug test was taken.

FACT: Trayvon was 70 feet from his fathers back door when shot dead (no where near any street sign).

FACT: At least 3 witnesses say the screaming they heard was from a child, one being a teacher, one being a white 13 year old walking his dog, and another a 31 year old women.

FACT: The only witnesses claiming Zimmerman was the victim (1) refused to be shown on TV and (2) left this brutal fight to go chase down his dog.

FACT: A 17 year old is dead and the person who shot him in his chest is sleeping in his bed based on the fact that this person 110 lbs smaller was going to beat him to death.

For leaving his vehicle this is at the very least manslaughter but I truly believe this to be Murder in the 2nd.

Seems to me that by stevem posting about cases of "whites getting attacked/killed by blacks" that he's trying to make what zimmerman did seem okay. Actually when he posted about the one where "the white guy killed the black kid" & made it seem like that was okay because the kid was skipping school & was on probation, I'm going to guess that steve is a little racist. Well stevem, it doesn't matter if trayvon was black, purple, blue, or rainbow colors, & it doesn't matter if zimmerman was striped or polka-dotted, what happened here was WRONG. Judging by the event that occurred zimmerman had no need to shoot trayvon, he was told not to pursue the boy, yet he continued to do so. Which IF trayvon was somehow posing a "threat" to zimmerman as he claims, why would you follow someone who is "posing a threat" to you?? It doesn't matter what the color of a person's skin is, killing someone for reasons other then ACTUAL self defense is wrong. I find it sad that even in this day & age people still feel the need to hate others for the petty little fact that they are not the same color as them. Also, it is not "just" whites who hate blacks or blacks who hate whites, prejudice is in all races & thats even more sad. I find it pathetic that people can even have that sort of hate in their lives & claim to be "happy" with their lives, I for one couldn't live with so much hatred for others I know nothing about. I think it's time that people grow up & realize that every race has it's fair share of "criminals"(bad people) & good people. Remember noone is born with hatred or intolerance. (sorry for my rant!!)

Anybody is free to follow anybody they want - especially in their own neighborhood. Following is not cause for assault. 'He was following me so I beat the snot out of him.'

If you do decide to beat the snot out of somebody, hopefully you will choose a man that is not carrying a gun. I'd use mine.

freedman

I only wish you would choose to follow me one rainy night. I can only wish you would try to reach for your gun thus giving me grounds to snap your neck. This bigot chose a 17 year old boy to pick on. I can only hope you won't be so lucky when you profile someone for their color of skin. This is a child who was shot dead by some trigger happy nut and you stand up for him. Don't have children my friend cause karma is a $%^#&.

Let's remember this happend 3-4 weeks ago...the cops had plenty of time to make sure they had their ducks in a row.... was there a hospital report for any treatment of Zimmerman?? Were there any pictures taken of his alleged injuries? This all sounds like BS to me - and the cops are making it look like a good shoot becayuse they did NOT DO THEIR JOBS in responding promptly and could have prevented this...they want it to look like it was a good shoot to cover their own asses... I know Zimmerman had a habit of calling the cops over everything -so they didn't take this incident all that seriously... and they coached the one witness into saying it was Zimmerman crying for help - and if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you... cops are just as bad as Zimmerman for defending this guy - because they f$#@ed up!! Plain and simple

Whatever you say Pirate man.

For the record, I really only stand up for the laws of our land. Every man is innocent until proven guilty, and every man has the right to defend himself in the event he is attacked.

"A true man, who is without fault, is not obliged to fly from an assailant, who by violence or surprise, maliciously seeks to take his life or do him enormous bodily harm." ~ U.S. Supreme Court, 1895

In this case, THE ONLY ONE eligible to utilize any form of "stand your ground" defense in this incident would be Trayvon Martin. This kind of law was enacted for victims accosted while in public. Had Trayvon wrestled the gun away from this pervert (any adult who stalks a child for any reason is a pervert in my mind) and used it in self defense from this predator, he would have had all the right in the world. Zimmerman's 911 call (and his prior abuse of the 911 system) alone is proof enough of the stalking.

How does an ex-felon with a history of criminal offenses and obvious mental health issues obtain a gun legally, use it in an unjustified manner, and not be investigated????

Hi Hope!

Zimmerman does not have a felony record. Florida has a "Shall-Issue" system regarding handgun permits.

Zimmerman's neighborhood had been burglarized several times recently. Following a suspicious character is not grounds for assault, and there is no evidence that young Trayvon offered his ID.

Plenty of 17 year olds are perpetrators of crime. A smart, innocent 17 year old would not engage in assault - he'd just get home as quickly as he could if he were scared, or state his business if not.

If it were the other way around I bet the BLACK guy would probably have been jailed or shot, but since it was a half White guy no charges now that justice of color or what ....

The only thing we have to go on is Zimmerman's statement to Police.

There were no eye witnesses. And the people that heard anything all say they heard a scuffle.

So you have a guy in a security guard uniform with a gun, who asks a person to stop - and they don't - clearly making them seem even more suspicious, who then gets into a physical fight with that suspect individual.

All Zimmerman has to say is "HE WENT FOR MY GUN."

And it is case closed - NO CHARGES.

Imagine if he were a cop in the exact same situation. Asks someone to stop, they don't - then when you catch up to them they fight you.

If the cop thinks you are going for their gun, they will shoot you - end of story.

Now I don't think this Zimmerman guy is a cop, nor do I think he is completely in the right. But he holds all the cards. Short of contradictory evidence, his word is the only one we have.

He would clearly be charged if he had simply shot the other guy from any distance, or in the back.

The police can tell the range and the direction of the shot.

People need to check their emotions and try some logic for once. It doesn't hurt much.

There simply isn't any evidence that they didn't get into a fight, and that Martin didn't go for Zimmerman's gun.

And since you are innocent until PROVEN guilty - that is going to be a high hurdle to clear.

It is odd that this case gets so much media attention, when a border patrol agent was killed by a drug cartel gang member using a gun that was provided to them by the Obama administration through Fast and Furious - that story gets no attention.

Oh, and Zimmerman is Hispanic - by his own definition as well as his father - and the media still reports him to be "white".

And they call Fox News biased?

Let's let the facts come out on this case. I doubt there will be a trial - as the local police are under alot of pressure on this - the most likely reason is they simply don't have enough to charge him. That isn't likely to change.

Ryan

The 9-1-1 dispatcher told Zimmerman that he should not follow the victim. He followed him anyway. He was not satisfied with just doing his duty, he decided to be a stalker, then he became a murderer. I guess that bottle of iced tea in the victim's pocket was a life threatening weapon in the weak mind of Mr. Zimmerman, killer.

freedman

First, you quote a Faux News article... Faux F***ING News... are you serious? The "news organization" that has been PROVEN, in multiple university studies, to promote more lies and false information than ANY OTHER station. The "news organization" that is banned in countries for spreading outright lies. The "news organization" that has admitted, ON LIVE TELEVISION, to following GOP-directed memos in reporting stories.

And THAT is your source? Well, that is FAIL #1

Second, you refuse to acknowledge all FACTS, while maintaining that your own "facts" are correct. You have stated, multiple times, that Zimmerman was "checking the street name". However, his very own 911 call PROVES that he was pursuing the boy and not "checking a street name". Thus, facts have proven that he lied.

Furthermore, you uphold the right for Zimmerman to "defend" himself against an "assailant", yet Zimmerman was the one stalking his prey... by his own admission on the 911 call. This was threatening behavior, and the boy was defending himself from Zimmerman. Of course, you don't want to use the self-defense excuse for Martin, do you? No, you only apply that excuse to Zimmerman. I wonder why that is?

So not only are you a hypocrite with your reasoning, but you refuse to acknowledge any facts other than your own opinions... oh, and lets not forget the "reputable source" of information from Faux News.

That would be FAIL #2

Finally...

Whatever you say Pirate man.

Really? The guy using a MATRIX image is making fun of someone else? The guy who is posting as Keanu Reeves, from the F***ING MATRIX, is making fun of a pirate image? Are you serious? Keep holding on to that dream... Keanu.

And we have FAIL #3

Now go back to your magical matrix world, little boy... where you can stop time and practice kung-fu. The adults are talking here.

freedman1, just stop arguing with tke29. It's clear now that you're an idiot. It is illegal to follow someone in such a close manner - it's called stalking, harassment to say the least. What is legal is walking around with your hoodie on. What's also legal is being young and black. I

Had you done some research, you would know that a member of a national neighborhood watch program confirmed that Zimmerman wasn't even a registered member of any officially recognized program. He's just a tool that thinks he's Batman. And yes, if a large, strange person started to accost me or detain my in any way for no good reason, I would commence to beating his sorry ass. That, my foolish friend, is self-defense.

You people (and you know the ones that I am talking about) are a real piece of work. A young man's life is taken for no good reason and all you morons can talk about is the race issue. You are just as big a problem as the sorry SOB that killed young Mr. Martin.

Ryan in Texas, this is guy wasn't an official member of any neighborhood watch program. He wasn't wearing a uniform (Read other articles about this). He's a self-appointed wannabe cop. He had no legal authority to accost, apprehend or detain the kid. His job is to observe and report. That's it.

what we need... is some neighborhood watch music...enjoy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFGgLr6sUF0

Don97 - If it were only that simple.

Following a person you find to be suspicious is not stalking. There is nothing illegal about doing that.

And the dispatchers at 911 are not Police, they have no legal training as well.

They can make personal suggestions, but that's about it.

At this point (and assuming Zimmerman told the police that Martin went for his gun in the fight - my personal theory), they simply don't have enough to convict. A defense attorney wouldn't even have to break a sweat. There is only one eye witness (Zimmmerman). There is evidence of a two person fight.

If a security gaurd at the mall asks you to stop, but then you try to elude them, they will follow you. They are not the police, and what they are doing is clearly lawful.

So you can chase after people.

I think Zimmerman was in the wrong, but wrong isn't illegal. I'm guessing they might get a civil judgement against him, since the evidence needed for that is much lower. However, that's not even a sure thing - since there is only one eyewitness (Zimmerman), and like I said earlier - he only needs say that Martin went for his gun in the fight.

But perhaps more evidence might come to light - although seems like it should have already come out.

"Than obviously you should have a problem with this law, because that is exactly what was washing until the national media got involved.

This law creates situations where that can wash."

Not true. Not in AZ anyway, I don't know much about Florida. I've had a lot of training on using a gun, and equally as much training as to when NOT to shoot.

Zimmerman was armed and went after the 17 year old mionor. He confronted Traywon at night, which is scary enough for an adult, let along a youngster. A neighbor said the Zimmerman went around and around the area and was a bit spooky. If the youngster threw a punch at Zimmerman as he was acosted at night by a strange person, then Trayvon was trying to defend himself. Why was Zimmerman persecuting the youngster instead of callling for the police to investigate the "suspect"? He was looking to justify himself. He should be held accountable for armed aggression upon a minor by night and at least for 2nd degree murder (preintentional). Zimmerman is called "Hispanic", but he is probably only partly Hispanic, since Zimmerman is a German last name. If the Grand Jury doesn't come up with guts on this, then the Justice Department should step in more energetically.

"Farts stink."

But do you know why?

So deaf people can enjoy them too.

And the dispatchers at 911 are not Police, they have no legal training as well.

Zimmerman is not the police, he has no legal training. He has no legal authority to stop and harass anyone.

they simply don't have enough to convict.

Except for a 9-11 call where Zimmerman makes it obvious that (1) he lied about getting out of the car to look at a street name, casting doubt on the credibility of his "word". And (2) he was going to pursue a citizen based on his opinion, which lacked any legal or authoritative training. His opinion, or yours, does not trump the personal rights of other citizens not to be harassed by people like you. So you may pursue someone, but that stalking action can be interpreted as a threat, especially considering he had no legal training or authority.

Furthermore, the 9-11 call from Martin makes it apparent that (1) he was scared and feeling threatened by an unknown man, and (2) he had no knowledge that this man was an authority figure, which he was NOT, or that this man had any reason to stalk him. Thus, Martin then is provided the "stand your ground" defense, as all evidence points to the fact that he felt threatened by an unknown assailant. So any fight that broke out was the result of Martin defending himself from an armed assailant, and this assailant successfully killing his target.

So you can chase after people.

Wrong, you can not just chase after and harass anyone you want. But instead of just telling you, I want YOU, Ryan, to take your gun and start chasing random people around town. See what happens to you. Please, do this... nothing would make me happier than to have you behind bars and no longer posting your lies on these boards.

So take your own advice, pull out a gun and "chase" random people. Come on, big man... I dare you. Prove to all of us that you are correct. Man up and prove me wrong. Take your gun, and stalk random people with it. Let's see what happens.

my personal theory), they simply don't have enough to convict. A defense attorney wouldn't even have to break a sweat.

And this is why YOU would make the absolute worst lawyer, EVER. Your "personal theory" means nothing in light of facts. The word of a killer also holds little value, after it has been proven that he has lied, thus removing any credibility he may have once had. A prosecutor would not have to break a sweat to beat you.

Go crawl back to your beloved Fox News.

IndieParty - Neo does not smoke. You're mistaken sir.

Ryan

You are wrong. 9-1-1 dispatchers are typically very highly trained and have specific instructions on how to respond to various calls. Perhaps you failed to notice that Zimmerman said "OK" to the instruction not to follow the victim. Zimmerman's instructions as a neighborhood watch person included "do not follow or engage suspicious persons". You take the ridiculous position of defending any gun owner because of your tunnel vision on the issue of guns rights. You have taken an absurd and undefendable position in this case.

Furthermore, the 9-11 call from Martin makes it apparent that (1) he was scared and feeling threatened by an unknown man, and (2) he had no knowledge that this man was an authority figure, which he was NOT, or that this man had any reason to stalk him. Thus, Martin then is provided the "stand your ground" defense, as all evidence points to the fact that he felt threatened by an unknown assailant. So any fight that broke out was the result of Martin defending himself from an armed assailant, and this assailant successfully killing his target

To my knowledge Martin never called 911. That was a mistake. If he had this case would much easier to prosecute.

Or the murder might have been prevented all together.

It's very obvious from what we know right now that Trayvon Martin didn't have time to call 9-1-1. He was confronted shortly after he noticed Killer Zimmerman following him and could not defend himself with the Skittles, iced tea and cell phone he was carrying.

Stoopid.....Really??? That's the kind of mind-numbing stupidity that perpetuates the racism... I am not even sure if it was posted toungue-in-cheek - but maybe that's why you don't post your real name

I'll have you know, I am proud of my name. My real name. Stoopid, of the New Haven Stoopids. The original Stoopids came on the Mayflower, and have been influencing the country more than you know, ever since. Now if you want to throw stones, you should mention the Fumducks. They are a squirrely bunch.

Sarah-3043284 at post #1.30

Despite the lateness I feel compelled to respond to your gross mischaracterization of my post and the thinly-veiled smear on my character.

First, my right to bear arms does indeed come with the right to pull the trigger. To think otherwise demands a great deal of sophistry or ignorance on your part. Am I supposed to throw my handgun at them? As far as the due process guaranteed to the individual who makes an attempt on my life, it is forfeit the second that they place my life in mortal danger. The last thing I will be thinking about is whether they get their day in court. I will instead be concentrating on placing two .40 S&W Hydrashok rounds into their center mass.

Second, how does avowal of my beliefs translate into obsession and machismo? Killing someone else is the <b>last thing</b> I'd willingly do. But at the same time, I have made a clear and conscious decision to never allow myself to be victimized in such a manner. Are you so dead-set against guns that you would willingly allow yourself (or your husband or children) to be victimized for some mythical "Guns are bad" ideal? Please.

Here's another case of a REAL hate crime ignored by the national press here in America...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqLVjOuSWQ&list=FLJ1xA3P2Qcxve-ZcBhoFbcg&index=29&feature=plpp_video

Another video about the same atrocious story of true racism...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4htIDMuIT9k&feature=related

Artemis,

First, my right to bear arms does indeed come with the right to pull the trigger.

Hate to break the news to you, you don't have a Constitutional right to shoot people. Only under certain circumstances. Circumstances that were not present in this case.

As far as the due process guaranteed to the individual who makes an attempt on my life, it is forfeit the second that they place my life in mortal danger

True, but no one's life was in mortal danger here, except Trayvon Martin. If your sole purpose in life is to shoot people who threaten you, you're not concerned with your safety, or even that of your family, and you certainly have zero respect for law and society. As I said before, anyone who wasn't just pumped up on over blown machismo, would have no problem opting for flight, when given the choice between flight or fight. Your insatiable need to harm back, is nothing but vengence.

Are you so dead-set against guns

No. I'm dead set against people who think guns and vengence are the answer to problems. People who choose mindsets like yours, over the law or even common sense. It's mind sets like yours that lead to laws where 17 year old boys are shot to death.

Crime prevention needs to be looked at through the lens of a hybrid social science that includes criminology, victimology, sociology, and psychology. You can't simply say, "Guns make criminals think twice." No, they don't. Crime is motivated by all sorts of different social and cultural factors, by all sorts of different individuals, and each crime comitted by each criminal is different. Guns would only make them think twice if each criminal and each crime was rational.

Self defense also needs to be taken a case at a time. There are only a few instances, under an alignment of a perfect set of circumstances where a gun would work. Think about it... Timing, location,the circumstances of the crime, the mental capacity of the victim, the lifestyle of the victim, the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator... I could go on and on. An example, drive by shootings, a completely innocent person caught in one, is dead, long before they could pull a gun. Rape? Most rape is acquaintance rape, where victims tend to freeze or not even realize what's happening until it's too late.

So, go play "King of the Castle" and talk about how you'll make some sort of grand stand against violence, with your little gun. Whatever makes you feel tough, or sexy, or whatever.

don97524

ron

There is nothing inherently wrong with Second Amendment rights, as long as those who use firearms are at least as concerned with gun responsibility as with gun rights. The fact that you believe this is a clear case of self defense should be reason enough to deny you any right to own, use or even be in the vicinity of any firearm. You clearly do not understand the circumstances that would justify use of a gun.

Seeing as how I happen to teach a firearms safety course along with a marksmanship course, i guess we should strip you of your first amendment rights seeing as how you have no clue as to what you are talking about anyway.

Proud member of the NRA & The CMP.

The saddest part about this is it took the public outcry to proceed to the Grand Jury. If it wasn't for that this man would have gone home , polished his gun and sat in front of the TV eating his bag of Doritos and probably been the hero of his Block Watch Society. It's sad when the public has to demand that something be done and charges proceed instead of the Sanford Police.

I have to hand it to Treyvon Martin's parents. If this happened to my son, I would be taking matters into my own hands.

If you had done that and assuming your'e black or politically corrected african american your family would use the N card,B card.And it really,we had two Indian cousins shot up here in Montana but the FBI never investigated it,also we haven't had an Indian President yet.And I suppose all you people know or knew what was on his mind at the time "YEAH RIGHT"

The minute Zimmerman got out of his car to pursue Martin, after the police 911 operator told him not to, h lost all claims to self defense or the stand you ground law. This is a simple case of a racist vigilante who was itching to shoot someone. Zimmerman deserves to be charged with second degree murder with a hate crime enhancement, since his actions were no doubt racially motivated. Zimmerman should be immediately taken into custody and bound over for trial.

In a cell phone call moments before his death, Martin told a teenage girl that he was “hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him.” “‘He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,’ Martin’s friend said. ‘I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.’ Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin. ‘Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’”

source:http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2ju5Fzg0z9

go by the law he would have still been justified.

Zimmerman is using,

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

And,

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

And he could use this if they decide he was the aggressor.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

The law is on Zimmermans side of this.

Notice section 776.032 at the top and bottom,

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution

As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

According to the law, Zimmerman could have hit the kid first then the kid hit him back but once Zimmerman was pinned to the ground and he was in fear (even just in his own mind) of great bodily harm. It was legal for him to shoot the kid.

BTW, The cell phone call is hearsay.

He also called him an "f-ng c00n" on the 911 call. So he should be charged with a hate crime as well

Nice sentiments from the State's Attorney; damn shame they're 3 weeks late, and it required national outrage to wring those acknowledgments out of state and local officials. Makes me wonder what else is going on down there that hasn't made the national and international news.

Yet.

Steve, those are lies, and blatantly racist. You have to be the biggest piece of garbage on the planet.

Jan -They are not lies the national media doesnt print them as they dont like how obumas policies have led to more gun purchases than at any time in history. Go ahead http://www.limaohio.com/news/rape-80858-lima-boy.html http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/01/anferney_fontenet_15_rapes_wom.php http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110078/Boy-13-doused-gasoline-set-alight-racially-motivated-attack-Kansas-City.html See that the kansas white boy doused with gas was so bad it made news in the UK but not on MSN

SteveM-2033484

Are you nuts? If two black kids set a white kid on fire because of his or her race it would be front page national news, just as this is. Their picture would be all over the news, right wing radio would be filled with hate and they would some how blame it on President Obama. Either your a liar or you just dont know the facts.

it's not being brought up cause they are actually going to prosecute in that case. that is the difference that you can't seem to comprehend steve. this case they don't know if they will prosecute or not. here's an idea, get a website and post the stories you want to hear about if you have a problem with what is getting attention and what isn't.

@SteveM,

Zimmerman's not a "watch captain" of squat.

"According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group"

The "watch captain" thing was something Zimmerman just made up, and bestowed upon himself.

$20 says SteveM-2033484, is white, claims he's not racist, is a christian but is in favor of the death penalty, has a reoccurring fantasy in which sharing his gun collection to Reagan ends up in a reach-around.

The Stand Your Ground law is NOT a good law with just someone making a bad decision.

Trained officers make bad decisions all the time, whether by accident or by choice. If that can occur with trained officers, common sense tells us that this will be a more likely occurrence with non- trained civilians.

This is extremely different than someone protecting themselves in their own home. Move along and call 911 should be the only acceptable response - both in terms of common sense and in terms of the law.

Why? It's already known that he did shoot the kid. That was never in doubt. He's just claiming it was "self-defense". Which is obviously a steaming pile of crap.

you have to test , have to follow procedure, and to those who don't like it, innocent till proven guilty, applies to everyone no matter what was done or how much people hate it.

yep and that's works for both the victim and the defendant .

Let that idiot keep his gun, that way, when he finds out that he's about to be charged with first degree murder, by the federal government, he'll do use all a big favor and put the barrel of it in his mouth and pull the trigger.

Why would a watch captain of a gated community be charged with 1st degree murder of somone that didn't live in the community, he was visiting his baby dad? He called 911 saying that a thug was looking in windows caseing the houses.

Its a very sick brain that thinks that even if he was "casing houses" that justifies homicide. Police cannot kill someone unarmed why should a normal citizen? You are brain dead Steve.

Franktheprank- what is up with your racist post?? Why are you talking about hillbilly whites and Jedthro (it's Jethro) and Bubba. The shooter in this story was HISPANIC, meaning mexican. There were NOT any WHITES, hillbilly or not involved in this incident. You are just as racist as the people you are complaining about. If it was a white boy that was shot all these celebs like Spike Lee wouldn't have wasted a second thought on this incident. RACISM at it's finest.

Steve, where are you getting that crap? If you read the 911 transcript he says Trayvon is "walking around, looking about" - there is nothing, anywhere, about a thug looking in windows.

Hey SteveM, are you mental? This jacka$$ is going to be charged and convictied of murder because he was told not to follow this person and he did so anyway. Then he confronted and shot an unarmed person. He is not law enforcement, get it! So instead of having skittles and a soda if he had pulled out a gun and blown this Ahole away I guess he could have used the stand your ground rule then how would you be feeling about that law.

People: we all know what "Steve" is. Don't waste you time on him/her/whatever.

Jan;

IN what world do you live? Cops shoot unarmed people with surprising frequency. These trained observers have confuse cell phones, keys, toys, even a stack of wedding invitations for weapons and shot people many, many times. And the out come is always the same, they were following procedures and not charged. Many times people with a weapon have been shot at the mere sight of it, no threats made, just hanging on their belt, and the cops feared for their life and shot them dead, again no charges.

You really need to get out more.

SteveM-2033484, I am the self anointed grand wizard of the Gated community watch captain guild. I hereby command you to cease and desist. I swear with my right hand on the King James that I witnessed you shake it more than two times. Although the pictures of Barbara Bush above your toilet are sumptuous, you are guilty of playing with it.

screwdworld, You keep telling yourself whatever it takes to sleep at night. 1st of all, my uncles are mostly Italian but look Hispanic also. 2nd, his last name is Zimmerman and 3rd, I live in a racist state and just got back from lunch at a local place and over-heard many, many people talking about how it wouldn't have happened if those "colored" kids weren't so shady. Oh yeah, I was also one of you. I hated blacks, gays, Jews and feminists but I moved out of my insulated small white town when I was 26 and found out what an un-educated racist moron I'd become. And before you say I must have moved to some liberal gay-loving Mecca let me stop you and tell you it was Phoenix! If you think for a moment that minorities are treated equal then you still have much growing to do as a person. Good luck with that Cooter.

He called 911 saying that a thug was looking in windows caseing the houses.

Huh? I didn't get that AT ALL. I heard a paranoid guy talking about someone walking down the street. Are you trying to imply this kid was on someone's private property? Because that's the first I've heard of it.

I wish more people would read the article before spouting off. It clearly stated that Zimmerman was told to stop following the youth and let the police handle it. Zimmerman was not in any imminent danger at all if he would have stopped. The youth was unarmed. Race should have nothing to do with this.

I read this story a month ago and have been following it as new details came out. In the series of 911 calls posted on Huffington Post, I heard one lady say, after the shot, that someone was on the ground and someone "in a white shirt" was on top of him. I believe it was the second or third one down from the top of the list. (I will not be posting the links, I found them through Google). We know that Martin was wearing a darkish hoodie, part of the reason he was so "suspicious" to Zimmerman. Another fact that came up in my surfing, Zimmerman is the progeny of a German Jew and a Cuban mother and he was living in the complex with his father. Which ethnicity he identified with is irrelevant, but he clearly had a deluded fear of "these @!$%#s."

This story, as well as the comments of some of the more narrow-minded contributors, instills such a deep sense of sadness. As a child of a Black Panther, I have spent my entire life fighting against the negative stereotypes ingrained in me by a parent who believed that all whites are not to be trusted. As a Christian, and reading about the lack of discrimination Jesus had in blessing, healing or saving people, I questioned that belief and committed myself to judge people individually. My greatest fear now is that I may get an opportunity to live through a civil rights movement of my own, since it seems we are regressing instead of progressing.

This young man has been denied the right to achieve his own American dream, for no other reason (I'm sorry to say) than that he was a black man walking through a predominantly white subdivision. Anyone who cannot see the wrongness in Zimmerman's actions (in my opinion) is heartless and may never achieve the sympathy or empathy that identifies us as human.

I hope English isn't your first language.

Chris- 6299698

I didn't know that was what was up for discussion. However I'm quite certain you understood enough of my post to comment about it.

Just so your aware, Canadians speak English Americans speak American.

Just so your aware, Canadians speak English Americans speak American.

*you're

how about you are?

Why can't you stick to the discussion and don't be so concerned about me.

TOOL

U mad, bro?

/would be nice if all you people would wait for the trial because if they don't cover their butts on the civil rights this could be guilty at trial and overturned in federal court Remember Miranda was hispanic too.

fnkheehaw;

Last time I checked, you Canadian's speak Canadian, Ehh? Not English, completely different accent. Unless of course, your from the other side of Canada, In that case you speak French.

Nicodemus1946

Thank you for being an American who knows more than me about being Canadian. How about we stick to the discussion at hand, and let's not worry so much about what a Canadian is. It's amazing how some Americans focus on that (race). That's why once again you have a racially charged situation like the one we are discussing here.

Also for your information we are part of the British Commonwealth and we are Canadian. However speak English.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-trayvon-martin-family-20120315,0,2583523.story

zimmerman had a bloody nose and wound on his head. this may change things.

"Hell, FELONS in Arizona can buy and carry guns because their laws are so lax."

Bull@!$%#.

Funny how you are so willing to believe Zimmerman was the one who was doing wrong without all/any facts.

What is it with you guys? This is just a forum. Zimmerman gets a trial but people are still going to talk. The facts that we do have which are considerable given the 911 recordings point to some paranoid racist vigilante. There is PLENTY of evidence for at least an arrest which hasn't taken place. This is the real problem. How can someone stalk and shoot and unarmed teen on public property and NOT be arrested? That's just crazy.

@JT-1498004

You obviously didn't hear the 911 conversation. Or are you just playing dumb to get people to respond to your asinine question.

You are so right. The teen could have traumatized the poor guard with a Skittle, thus prompting the shooting. Seriously, people don't go to jail pending trial only when there are witnesses to a crime. The audio tape of the poor kid screaming for his life should be enough to warrant that. My heart goes out to him and his family. Unbelievably sad.

not to agree with jt but you can't tell whose voice it is in the audio tape calling out. at least i couldn't anyway.

The mother can. And so could any other family member.

It's funny, the person that the kid was on the phone with at the time of the shooting wasn't even questioned by police. She had to contact the family's lawyer to give her account. The boy said he was being followed and that he was scared. Why didn't the police think that this was important?

Do we know that the kid did not reach into his pants and look like he was pulling a weapon and not a skittle or to get a drink of his beverage? Could have he even uttered the words "I have a gun" before he reached into his pants? Should the other guy have waited until the hand came back from the pants to see if the hand held a gun, now shooting at him? Seems like the items under his clothing were known after the fact. If the kid was bluffing and the shooter brought out his gun of course the kid would yell help. He started a gun fight and forgot to bring one.

Point is, we were not there and do not know with certainty what happened. Just as the dead kid's parents said he was such a good kid, I bet the surviving kid's parents say he was such a good kid.

The mother may or may not be able to tell. I'm sure she's looking out for herself and her pocket book.

Concerned Vet - 2678416

HE WAS TOLD NOT TO PURSUE THE HIM AND HE HAD NO REASON TO. He's and nothing more than a watchman!

Based on your name I would hope you know how to follow orders.

Or is this another dumb statement from someone who needs the attention of a response, no matter how dumb it sounds.

The tape clearly states ,he is coming over to check me out, Zimmerman's words.

Self defense.

Concerned vet, No the point is Trayvon should not have been confronted by Zimmerman in the first place thereby necessitating whatever reaction Trayvon had to do to defend himself. Did you even read the article?

Concerned vet - 2678416, Really?? The guy never should have been following him to begin with! If he felt "threatened" by this kid walking around, then fine, call the cops like he did, but to chase after him after the police say not to? If I'm a 17yr old kid, and anyone is chasing after me in the dark that is not a cop, you're damn straight I'm going to fight back if confronted. For this idiot to claim self defense is completely absurd, as he wasn't the one chased after or confronted. I think you are just slightly confused on who "started a gun fight".

Concerned Vet, the man shot an unarmed kid while he was screaming for help from the neighbors, that is called murder.

People really need to stop make this political and start viewing it as what it was, this guy killed this kid in cold blood. There was no reason for it to happen.

The guy never should have been following him to begin with!

No law against following someone on the sidewalk,

Going over to check out Zimmerman and attacking him,will get you shot,

Self Defense,wait and see. No conviction.

People really need to stop make this political and start viewing it as what it was

The police and most people involved say it was self defense, you and the political protesters see it different.

The kid was screaming for help, what makes you think that it was him that started the physical altercation? Zimmerman used a gun, on an unarmed kid, that is murder Ron, I am pretty sure they can find a non racist jury to convict.

Hatr,

That has to be the most idiotic statement made. I couldnt tell whose voice it was when, let me guess, you did not know either of the individuals involved.

Hutr,

I know this is above your ability to comprehend, but his mother said that the voice was her baby--crying for help. Well you got your wish; everyone knows you are an idiot!! So there!

Ron - You're a moron. The 911 operator specifically stated not to follow him. At that point, he's the one in the wrong who has no escalated a situation to a point it never needed to be at. Does it really make sense in your twisted mind to continue to follow someone you genuinely feel "threatened" by? No, he made it his personal responsibility to make sure this "@!#&*" didn't get away. Whole thing could have been avioded if he had simply made his phone call and waited.

First, of all you have to listen to the the conversation on the audio tape before leaving a questionable comment. Also, do you think Zimmerman would have been able to jumped on the kid with a scuffle if, he had a gun? That sounds stupid. Zimmerman would have been shot before, he could even touch the kid if, the kid was a real thug. Do you don't have any idea how often this type of case happens in South carolina, Texas, and let alone Florida. I've been to Moncks Corner, South Carolina where it is known that they target only the young black youths there and there is no investigation done when a black kid is killed. These states with this so called Castle Doctrine law abuse it to the fullest but, for years murders like this was always swept under the rug. Hopefully, this will be the begnning to getting justice for this murder and most of the others. Killing anyone when there're not a threat is WRONG! What do you expect Zimmerman to sya? I mad a mistake and killed the kid because, I didn't who he was? really?

SteveM - Um, no, way to twist what I said. Someone asking what I'm doing there is one thing. Following after me while not saying a word is a totally different scenario that even your small moronic mind can comprehend, I'm sure.

And really, "babydad"? "Chimp out and attack"? What kind of racist piece of crap hillbilly are you?

Ron 1902603

He was on duty and told not to follow him, did you not hear the 911 call?

Once again He was told not to follow him period. He will be found GUILTY and hopefully it will shut people like you up.

Peace!

Steve. Quit typing and put your hood back on. His parents were divorced. He is just this poor kid's father, not a "babydad". You, sir, are the damned chimp.

Rod_Father

Hatr,

That has to be the most idiotic statement made. I couldnt tell whose voice it was when, let me guess, you did not know either of the individuals involved.

and yet i've heard both of their voices through audio recordings. the fact that i didn't physically know either of them is pointless. you don't know zimmerman but you have heard his voice right?

charles, you just continue to be the class act that you are.

No Calvin1, He's a Buffoon like Zimmerman!!

Justm- you have the same psychic powers the crack dealing leader of the black panthers had when he said that there had to be someone other than the 20+ black men who raped a white hispanic (just like zimmerman) 11yo girl near Houston TX. There was cell phone video in that case but Quandel x seemed to think the 11yo consented and lied about her age.

I only twisted your words to fit the situation. Gated communities are gated to keep non members out, and they generally know each other.

Lol father instead of baby dad, 70% of black babies are born to unwed moms try to blame that on whitey or "white" hispanicy

ron-

The police and most people involved say it was self defense, you and the political protesters see it different.

you mean the police, zimmerman and trayvon? i doubt trayvon sees it that way and of course zimmerman isn't gonna call it murder.

Hatr,

What crime did the victim commit?

never said he committed a crime, or that i believe that zimmerman was right to shoot him. in fact i feel the opposite. all i said was that you can't make out the voice in the audio tape, then came the name calling. maybe you should take a xanax or valium.

It is none of anyone's business why this child was walking on the sidewalk. Zimmerman had no right to follow or approach this child. If this child was white, he would have never asked why he was outside minding his own darn business. No one has the right to approach you and ask you why you are ANYWHERE, only if it is private property. Last I checked, this child was walking on the sidewalk! This was not self-defense when you take into account the fact that Zimmerman admitted that he began following the child when told not to. Then he began chasing after the unarmed child. If you want to cry self-defense, it seems that all you have to do is say, "oh he appeared suspicious and his hand was in his pants" to get away with murder. This man was disturbed and should be punished for his actions. If he was concerned about the safety of the community, he should have just allowed the police to handle the situation and remained in his vehicle until they arrived.

SteveM

You must be of Alien decsent!

You would be best situated somewhere like Mars perhaps, definitely away from all humanity!

Haha! Please point out where I claim to have psychic powers of any sort? He followed after him, unprovoked. he was on the phone with the 911 operator while doing so, I'm pretty sure if he had been trying to get the kids attention to question what he was doing there, it would have been heard on the tape. Anything past that is on Zimmerman, not the kid who, per the police, he never should have been following.

So hung up on race you are! I'm not defending or sympathizing with anyone based on race, regardless of what you may believe. This situation never should have escalated to this point, and the one who pulled the trigger is to blame and should be held accountable.

Jstamuse13- the watch captain wa trying to prevent anouther "Lima police announced the charges against Maurice McGill, who today is 14. He is charged with rape, aggravated burglary, aggravated robbery and abduction. The alleged victim is 91 years old today"

concerned vet-Point is, we were not there and do not know with certainty what happened. Just as the dead kid's parents said he was such a good kid, I bet the surviving kid's parents say he was such a good kid.

except zimmerman doesn't have the history to back that up since he was arrested for resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer.

stevem- it's not his job to prevent anything. it's called neighborhood WATCH not neighborhood take the law into your own hands.

Jstamuse- You dont understand the watch captain would have followed anyone who was not a member of the gated community, especially if they were caseing houses. You understand the thug didnt live there he was visiting his baby dad. Gated communities exist to keep people out, this was not a public street. The watch captain had self defense type injuries thats why the cops didnt take the captains gun. It shouldnt have escalated past the "I am visiting my moms baby dady at 123 oak st""i wasnt caseing da houses". If he was white, didnt live there, and caseing the houses he probably would have just been identified and reported to the police if he didnt attack the captain.

steve- you shouldn't use words or phrases that you don't understand. he wasn't visiting his baby dad cause he couldn't have a baby dad. he could have a baby momma cause it takes 2 opposite sex people to make a baby. also, he wasn't casing houses, he was on the sidewalk but there's no convincing those who don't bother getting all the facts. why was he a thug in your book? simply cause he's black? also, voting your own posts up is pathetic.

ron 1902603

The tape clearly states ,he is coming over to check me out, Zimmerman's words.

Self defense.

Kill that noise you talking, its not self defense because had you continued listening, Zimmerman also clearly states that "he (Trayvon) is walking away" & then makes the statement "these a**holes, they always get away" & then gets out of his vehicle & pursues this kid even when the 911 operator tells him WE DONT NEED YOU TO DO THAT...Zimmerman was looking to start trouble. He started it alright and it ended with him taking this kids life for no reason! He needs to be arrested and charged!

Ron

There is a law against following someone it is called stalking! Read a book!

I never name called, just said it was an idiotic statement.

Point is, we were not there and do not know with certainty what happened. Just as the dead kid's parents said he was such a good kid, I bet the surviving kid's parents say he was such a good kid.

Your missing the point. This man stalked and confronted a teen who was apparently not committing any crime. He is NOT the police he has no business doing that.

steve159

Ron

There is a law against following someone it is called stalking! Read a book!

The police did not call it stalking and he did not break any law or he would be in jail now.

I love to read books, you should try it sometime. You need to read all the statements in this case and then make an informed comment. Zimmerman says he was heading back to his truck and that's when the kid attacked him, The police are going with that statement. the feds have to disprove Zimmerman's statement and that will never happen.

Have you been readng about all the children killing each other with guns? The last one I read was 2 children of a police officer were left in a vehicle with a loaded and unsecured weapon. The youngest child shot the 7 year old sister to death while the officer and spouse were out of the vehicle but "nearby". Didn't see a follow-up story much less Spike Lee, wyclif Jean or any other celeb,politician or Feds weighing in on this or the many other stories in the news lately!!! It wasn't more than a couple of months ago that a white female middle school student was nearly beaten to death on a school bus by a group of so-called minorities. Where is the OUTRAGE over this Florida incident and wheres' Spike Lee???

He was walking along a gated community and asked what someone that didnt live there was doing. Gated communities are gated to keep non members out especially people who look in windows caseing houses;

He was on the sidewalk you idiot! He was not casing houses. Please get it right. This child had never been in trouble in his life. His only crime was walking on the sidewalk. Zimmerman on the hand, has a felony and other crimes in his background and yet he is still allowed to possess a gun. Lets not forget the fact that he has always been suspicious of all black people in that community, having made several calls before this incident.

The charges against the watch captain where droped. He was arrested and found inne cent so he has no felony or crimes on his record to prevent him from having a gun or voting. The first call to 911 said he was caseing houses, neither of us can know if he was but it was what 911 was called for. Someone who was not a member of the gated community, caseing houses and it was not a public sidewalk.

It would never have happened if the kid was white.

@JFC-3426249

I guess it takes one to know one (African American).

Besides just to name a couple of others, Michael Moore and Clay Aiken also expressed disgust.

Does it even matter? This child did nothing to deserve what happened to him.

George Zimmerman is a buffoon.

That's right JXC, keep the hate alive.

I'll have 2 of whatever JXC is having......F'n moron......did you even read my post A-hole...and "Golly Gosh" LOL ok Gomer

JXC: get over it- you left-wingers with your moronic hate. "Gosh Golly America is such a horrible place for (put any race other than white) men"... if you feel that way then leave already, you Huffington Post News demobrats hate America so much you all should go. Your words, turned against you and not necessarily my feelings.

For every person spewing hate for one side, there can be just as many spewing hate for the other side. So it is a tragedy you cannot have a civil discourse.

I think JFC is correct in his assessment to the likes of Rev. Al and Spike Lee. They are opportunists that keep the flames of racism burning for their own pleasure and wealth. Being a big ole White Republican from the North with a lot of common sense, I can tell you that this young person was murdered. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Mr. Zimmerman should not have shot him. By the sound of the 911 tapes, he was looking to "not let this one get away". The Stand your Ground Law or Castle Doctrine or the Right to Carry do not allow you to shoot someone that is unarmed. This was pure murder in and of itself.

There were many of us since day one (those who are not the famous people that spout off about civil rights) that were calling for this case to be investigated further. We are glad the Spike Lees of the world also put out their opinion, but they were a day late and dollar short. Common sense dictates this incident be scrutinized by the law.

Considering the shooter was not White how do you know that?

Del,

Hey big Northern White Man (your description) to bad your description of the incident of the killer and law enforcement is bland, while hurling insults at people trying to help. This incident too place od February 26 and today is March 20. Zimmerman is still not arrested and nothing appeared to be done about this case until Justice and FBI steps in. Yet, big white man, you have the nerves to berate those that had no responsibility in this matter "a day late and a dollar short." If I could see them, I would look you in your eyes and tell you that I find you very suspicious, big Northern White Man. Just saying!!

Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

you got your work cut out for you today tyler.

#storylink=cpy

Zimmerman had a damp shirt, grass stains, a bloody nose and was bleeding from a wound in back of his head, according to police reports.

“If someone asks you, ‘Hey do you live here?’ is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody?” Lee said. “It’s not.”

Read more here: #storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

I agree!! HATR_HURTER

PEACE!!

ou812, there's no link that takes you anywhere. provide one that works or stop making stuff up cause none of the stories that you can search have any info that even comes close to what you say.

fnk, thanks.

actually ou812, i found it and i apologize as it says word for word what you said. problem is that zimmerman after supposedly being attacked in another location followed the kid and shot him at a different location.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-trayvon-martin-family-20120315,0,2583523.story

SteveM-2033484

Is this Steve...AGAIN?

Yes you are correct in saying, " we the fact we have available" you could not prove anything.

It is sad and horrible but one still needs know just how things happen.\

And why does the article have to say "black teenager", why not just teenager.

Is the media trying tomake it a hate crime?

Richard- get some reading comprehension- the suspect called the police to complain about black men walking near the neighborhood. He stalked a young man who lived in the neighborhood, who was black, chased him down and killed him.

The suspect made it a hate crime, no one else. But hey, that unnerves you right-windgers, huh? Cause America is soo anti-white, isn't that one of the memesyou republitards have been pushing lately?

JXC, you are about as bad as the right wingers, shut up and stop using the race card. Wonder why this country can never move forward.

uh, isnt this crime about race? so how is jxc using the race card?

Somehow, it is invariably the person calling out the hateful speech or the racist behavior who is the "real" hater/racist.

Yeah, right. As long as the George Zimmermans of the world feel they can simply shoot some poor *black* kid AND WALK AWAY, this country cannot move forward.

Whine, whinge, complain-- oh, it's hard out here for a white man, ain't it?

Yip! The media is all about "Entertainment" and stir up alot of things that aren't there to get everyone all in an uproar. I am two minorities per say but when I speak I scream in a right way to get my voice heard and wont back off from nothing or no one

br-#'s,

This country can't move forward because people like yourself refuse to call racism when they see it. If you fail to see the racism in this incident then you are no better than those who decry reverse racism as a reason for their anger against anyone or anything that is not like them.

Mr. Zimmerman identified Trayvon as "black" in response to the question from the 911 dispatcher. Does that make him a racist? NO. But the subsequent descriptions regarding Trayvon's dress, his opinionated remarks along the lines of these #@$%^*! always get away, his profiling of Trayvon because of his dress (hoodie), etc. are what make this a hate crime.

You can choose to see it anyway you wish, but you cannot refute the facts as they have been reported and corroborated by multiple sources.

SO anytime someone wears a hoodie and gets shot its a hate crime? hahaha. And Zimmerman saying "he's a black man" to 911 is also NOT racist, its called a description of the individual.

It is so pathetic how our country is moving backwards and not forward! This case is obviously about race because Zimmerman made it that way when he murdered a teenager simply because he was BLACK! His comments to the dispatcher made that very clear. Moreover, the fact that Zimmerman has not been arrested is further proof that our justice system is failing us.

Florida failed, and now since the feds stepped in they are finally convening a grand jury? This guy Zimmerman shouldn't be walking the streets, he murdered a child in cold blood for no other reason than he was wearing a hoodie and was black.

Well JCX when you turn your hate against the shooter please keep in mind the shooter was Hispanic not White. So when you spew all your anti- White hatred you are tageting the wrong racial group And none of us want to die as collateral damage to a minority on minority crime.

This country can't move forward because too many people are full of HATE!! I have a 17 year old daughter. This kid was just that... a KID!!! A grown man chased, wrestled with, and shot a CHILD. A child that had nothing on him but skittles and a can of tea. He was singled out by this guy as 'up to no good' because of the color of his skin. Period. If it was a white kid, he'd never have even thought anything. I can promise you that. Why?? I'm white. I know how many times my kids have been out walking and how many times an adult has thought they were 'suspicious' for it. My daughter's best friend is black. I can't tell you by looking at her how old she is. She certainly doesn't look to be a teenager. That's not her problem. It's OUR problem. Do you know that studies have been done that prove that people can't tell too much about another person outside their race? (All ___— look alike) Given that, people need to be more careful about knowing their own mind and their own issues before daring to take on something like going after someone with a gun!! Either way, whether this was a teen or a young man, he was walking down the side walk. How is that an issue??? I don't believe people right off when they say "I'm not racist" because it sounds an awful lot like "I have gay friends... I just think gays shouldn't be able to marry or have the same rights and heteros because they're unnatural". People lie. To others and more importantly to themselves.

One thing is crystal clear. There was a child with candy and a drink walking in a neighborhood. A man thought he didn't belong (the only reasonable guess why is his skin color), so he followed him. He attacked him, shot him, and killed him. Now he needs to do 25 to life. Period.

@ JXC he didnt live in the gated neighborhood or the watch captain would have known him, he was visiting his baby dad.

If you have a scanner you will hear almost all calls are of black men or hispanic men. The watch captain was hispanic.

Daniele,

It is so pathetic how our country is moving backwards and not forward! This case is obviously about race because Zimmerman made it that way when he murdered a teenager simply because he was BLACK!

Are you equally outraged when white boys are killed by blacks and no one is arrested? If not, then you should be equally ashamed of yourself. Until we stop viewing racism as a "white" problem, there will always be a problem.

Civil rights violations and hate crimes are not limited to just minorities Steve and can definitely exist between different minority groups. Steve, you should understand more about hate as you seem so full of it.

The kid was unarmed, and this guy used lethal force against him. He should have been arrested and gone through the court system in the first place, its not like he is a cop and people do not have the right to use lethal force in their neighborhoods unless there is self defense, this kid was screaming for his life when he was shot.

Jan- earlier this year in ReadingPA a white man shot dead Julius Johnson,a 16yo black teen, in the middle of a school day. The man was not charged with a crime or had his gun taken away just like zimmerman.

Johnson was skipping school, had robed someone earlier that day, and had an ankle bracelet from probation.

Dax - I'm not sure how you get that Zimmerman said Martin was "a black man." I think the exact words from the 911 transcripts were "f'in coon." Sorry, those are not words that I ever have used or ever would use to describe an individual.

TX,

Very good at deflecting, but it does not change who you are!! Black has the capacity to be racist, but you knew this. Where do you live? Because, I have lived in America all my life and I Have never seen a black man commit a crime and not be arrested. Hell they are arrested to often when they have not committed a crime. However, black men do not tie a white body to pickup trucks and drag it up and down the highway, until it explode and fall apart. Black men do not claim ownership of a tree on school campus and try to evict it black occupant. And black men have never taken a white teen, tie a rope around his neck, hang him from a tree till dead, under the guise of looking at a white girl. Moreover, no black men has took a whole white race and subjected them to slavery for 400 years, treating them worst than they treated their dogs. So, go ahead and scream, but know, your screams fall on my death ears!!! Besides, has nothing to do with this case!!!!

Did you read the story about the two black teens that set a white 12 year old on fire and said "that's what you get whitey"? At the high school I went to blacks had their own hallway and you better not walk down it even if that's where your next class was.

This isn't about deflecting it's about crying racism at every turn. There are stupid people everywhere learn to deal with the persons stupidity instead of their race. You have deaf ears because you don't want to hear the truth.

Now the police and state attorney's office are off the hook and can blame everything on the grand jury. Wise move, Norm Wolfinger. This guy sure seems guilty but I'm trying to keep an open mind. These things have a way of turning around pretty quickly.....remember the Duke lacrosse case fiasco.

Bull's eye. Someone earlier wrote they trusted the feds only. Oh brother, or sister. Where do we begin on that one? Audit the Federal Reserve? Never mind, to the point, I believe that without the likes of you and an angry public this might have died regardless of who was at the helm. The boy was murdered for the crime of carrying a little change and good grub that belonged to him. Sad part? A tragic loss. Now for another Florida carnival in a courthouse with volumes of daily coverage and speculation and judgement from your honor Nancy Grace. Sicksad.

Warren, you do realize that the Federal Reserve is a "PRIVATE BANK" that is not under the control of the government don't you?

The Federal Reserve is who the government get's their money from, but it is not government run.

Yeah.. this kid was the same age as two teens who attacked a white 13 year year old in Kansas. They pored gasoline on him and set him on fire after stalking him on his way home from school. When is the DOJ or MSNBC going to care about that? What about the other victims of hate crimes who go without justice solely because they happen to be white? What about the racially motivated kidnappings, tortures and rapes of other Americans whose cases go unnoticed because they are unfortunate enough to not be BLACK.?

So?

navyvet, get over your "victim" mentality. While horrible, I'm sure the teens in the attack you mention are being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In this case, a man walks free why covered under the protection of "self-defense". Comparing apples to oranges does little to justify your argument.

So navyvet98, you obviously must believe that because veteran Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK and veteran Timothy McVeigh blew up that government building in Oklahoma City, we should declare open season on all navy vets and shoot them dead in the streets.

Typically the DOJ doesn't get involved in this sort of case if the state is doing something about it. There is no federal laws on murder, what they can prosecute on will not put this guy away for what he needs to go to prison for. Hopefully Florida and this grand jury will do the right thing so that the department of justice doesn't have to prosecute on lesser charges.

Are those two teenagers being charged or are they still free with a claim of 'self-defense'? I think that is the reason this is being so publicized. Of course any of those crimes are horrible, but there is a unique set of circumstances here that is causing the widespread media coverage in this case.

Those two teens who attacked the white 13 year old should be arrested, tried and served time. I think the point in this case, along with the other cases of hate crimes throughout the nation are, it's not ok to harm or kill anyone based on your fear and ignorance. And it shouldn't take public outcry to get justice enforced. Justice is supposed to be standard for every race, creed or gender.

Department of Justice Statistics: 210,000 hate crimes against whites went unreported by the media in just one year.

Department of Justice Analysis: Justice Statistics: Likeliness victim of a hate crime is young, poor, white.

I think Trayvon Martin deserves justice and there should be an investigation. Just tired of all the one-sided outrage in this country. Trayvon deserves justice because he was an American citizen not because he was black otherwise we are all guilty of the same bias.

Navy Vet: Even if a fraction of your victim rant was true--2 (or 2 million) wrongs NEVER make 1 right! NEVER!

And Navyvet, seriously you are so off base, historically black people who kill white people are going to see more severe punishment than the reverse and look how many black people have been killed with no one caring, and you obviously are one of them. Every case deserves justice.

By the way I know the information because of a case where a man and his girlfriend kidnapped and tortured his ex girlfriend and took pictures of it the whole time while he was raping her. They were unable to get the evidence to convict and he was found not guilty. When the pictures were found several years later the federal government went after him on civil rights charges and the woman was very much white. There was no other way for him to see any prison time for the horrible crime.

Civil rights violations are not by any means restricted to minorities but when it comes to murder, you don't want the feds to prosecute, they don't have the statutes to really do justice. States have to seek justice.

navyvet, you're a moron.

Guess Newt Gingrich was right. Facts are not considered PC to liberals. Feel free to google it.

And blacks are considered expendable to racists navyvets. The fact is the case you mention justice against those two white teens was sought. The reason the case was getting so much attention was because the police were ready to dismiss the cold blooded murder of an unarmed child as self defense. Only one of them had a gun and that child was screaming for his life when he died. How in your perverted brain can you possibly see that killing as justified?

Are you really trying to say its ok for people to murder a black person for merely walking down the street in a neighborhood? Newt Gingrich is a racist pig who will never be the president of the US, he is just angry because people see him for what he is.

I would say that facts are considered irrelevant to conservatives, given how often Fox news lies. Fact check their news sometime, its the most ridiculous poor excuse for news that ever existed. Former journalists for them have said they are given lists of what they are supposed to say about topics, not the truth. And you racists just eat that garbage up, you are what you eat navyvet.

The picture is from when he was 12yo. This is anouther Jena 6 pack of lies

I think Navyvet is trying to say it's BS that whites get beaten,raped,robbed,verbally and physically attacked on a daily basis all over America by all types of minorities yet No famous, infamous or ordinary group of any minority folks get on change.org and start petitions demanding justice for white victims. If they boy in the story was white we wouldn't have a story being posted on right now. How many of you have even logged on to change.org? All this white guilt and white victim mentality being spewed is just bs. No white alive today is responsible for slavery of blacks just as no black alive today in the US anyway, is guilty of black on black slavery that btw was occuring long before there was a USA. The fact is that whites are often victims of reverse discrimination in this country and anybody that says that isn't true is either lying or lying to themselves. It also seems to be true that whites as well as every other race, black, hispanic, etc... etc.. are all hanging on tightly to predjuidices against each other and this country will continue to go down the drain until ALL RACES just bite the bullet, admit it and get over it.

navyvet, the difference between those cases and this one is that they will DEFINITELY prosecute the people who committed those crimes. also 90% of statistics are made up 75% of the time. provide a link or don't bother trying to push a statistic.

Most people use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp-post....more for support than illumination.

never heard that one before. i like it.

Keeping the hate alive.

Then don't go to FL Chris. Problem solved.

You are the same people who went ballistic when a Brownsville Tx police officer shot a kid carrying a pellet gun and waving it around school. All I heard on the net was the racists cops of Brownsville attacked the poor minority kid. Well the facts are and all of us here knew them without even checking is that everybody at the scene belonged to the same minority. Because the city is 90% Hispanic including the police department. But no matter what we tried to tell everybody they kept saying 1) the racist cops,2) thats the way Texas justice is even though the shooting report by law had to go to the state for review. People on the net condemned the cops without listening to people who knew the area.

Yep..

Just like the white guy that killed Julius Johnson in Reading Pa in January. Julius Johnson 16 was shot dead in the middle of a school day by a white guy.

After you search it you will find julius was skipping school, had robed somoene else that day, and had an ankle bracelet from probation.