Because the victim was a 17 year old child.

This Neighborhood Nazi stalked this unarmed innocent boy despite law enforcement telling him not to follow him.

Nothing, absolutely nothing about the "stand your ground" law permits anyone to stalk another person, start a confrontation, take a loaded weapon and then kill an innocent unarmed person. And then try to claim self-defense to boot !

.
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Like Britain, Spain stole Africans and brought them to the Americas. Cuba's slavery didn't end until 1888. Segregation in Latin America and Spain is still more common than in the US. Hispanics/So European descendants in Florida and California make Anglos and other Northern European descendants look beyond tolerant of all races.

This was racism, plain and simple

Also, Rick, the pictures are of children because it was a child who was killed.

Please sign the petition on change.org (http://change.org/)

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By the time police arrived, Martin was dead, with a gunshot wound in the chest. Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head and had wet grass stains on his red jacket. He claimed self-defense, telling police he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on, when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck. He said he fired the semiautomatic handgun because he feared for his life.

An adult witness to the physical altercation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him up, while Zimmerman yelled for help. Another witness said he came upon the scene and saw Zimmerman on his back on the ground, which accords with statements by the police that he was covered in grass and blood. A 13 year old witness corroborates.

***************

"Our investigation is color blind and based on the facts and circumstances, not color." - Chief Bill Lee, Sanford Police

***************

"A true man, who is without fault, is not obliged to fly from an assailant, who by violence or surprise, maliciously seeks to take his life or do him enormous bodily harm." ~ U.S. Supreme Court, 1895

This law is just a license to kill. As long as the other party is dead, there is no one to dispute the killer's story.

The minute Zimmerman got out of his car to pursue Martin, against the directions of the police 911 dispatcher, he lot all right to claim self defense or apply the "stand your ground" law to this situation. What we have here is a racist vigilante with an itchy trigger finger who wanted to shoot someone. All doubts about this being racially motivated are removed by the numerous 911 calls Zimmerman had made previously reporting on suspicious blacks in his neighborhood, never calling in to report suspicious whites or hispanics. Zimmerman was clearly the aggressor here and there is no way he can claim self defense under the stand your ground law. Even if there were a confrontation, there is no way that Zimmerman can claim that he feared for his life when he is considerably taller and at least 40 pounds heavier than this kid. Zimmerman should be immediately arrested, charged with second degree murder with a hate crime enhancement, and bound over for trial. There is absolutely no justification for this piece of @!$%# hunting down and shooting this unarmed kid who was simply walking home from the 7-11.

Why is why is the MEDIA saying he is WHITE?????

Could it be to fan the flames of HATE?????

Could it be because he is?

@Freedman,

Can you post a link to that story? or where is was published? I'd like to check it out.

This Zimmerman guy is just some gun-toting security guard wannabe who's seen way too many episodes of "TJ Hooker". He should have taken the advice of the 911 operator who told him they'd prefer he not follow the suspect but he decided to try and become a hero. Had he waited for the police this boy might not be dead today. Hope he's proud of himself.

Scubasteve - it's actually a compendium of various sources. A good place to start though is here -

http://tinyurl.com/7joryws

"Stand your ground" is different than pursueing a person even when 911 dispatchers are telling you to stop. In that case he was looking for a fight or some sort of confrontation.

Ricksta, what does him being hispanic have to do with him being a racist or not? Racists come in all races.

AKRandyThe family says he is Hispanic!!

Does not mean he isn't white. He could be purple and still be hispanic.

UnitedStates1776

This Neighborhood Nazi stalked this unarmed innocent boy despite law enforcement telling him not to follow him.

As an eye witness, your testimony will be invaluable to the Grand Jury. You were there weren't you?

doctorisn - Trayvon apparently did have a valid connection with the community. He was apparently visiting his father, and his father's partner, who live in the Sanford community. That particular community has experienced a rash of burglaries.

Trayvon Martin was armed with a bag of Skittles and a can of Arizona Tea.

He was not in the process of committing a crime.

He was visiting his father's girlfriend.

He was accosted by Zimmerman.

He had no record.

He was on the phone with his girlfriend and told her he was being followed and trying to lose the guy.

Zimmerman had a record.

Zimmerman was neither detained nor given a test for drugs or alcohol.

Zimmerman weighed 100 pounds more than Martin and was armed with a 9mm.

A sworn officer instructed Zimmerman not to follow Martin.

There is some evidence that Zimmerman used racial slurs.

Zimmerman's comments on the audio tape sound like he is trying to set the scene for his eventual action.

Martin was moving away from Zimmerman, so how could Martin be the aggressor?

Martin was an excellent student with a reputation for being cheerful.

Zimmerman called the police and they were on the way. Since no crime was being committed, there was no reason for Zimmerman to take any further action.

Zimmerman has called the Sanford police on at least 42 occasions.

This case stinks to high heaven.

if i were in a new neighborhood and i feel like i am being watched or followed, my first instinct would be to run. If i were followed even more by a man with a gun and i couldn't get away, i would definitely be fighting back. Zimmerman needs to leave the policework to the cops and I hope he does time and learns from his mistakes.

chris, is there some reason why you seem so angry?? You don't listen to the news or read a complete article do you, it shows. Take a breath, relax, sit back and try read articles from different sources not just this one, then come to a conclusion.

How can they even claim that they can't arrest him due to stand your ground laws when he can be heard screaming for help? So, if i approach the neighborhood watch captain and pull out a gun and he begs for help and his life and i kill him, i can claim self defense? Who would believe that i killed the neighborhood watch captain in self defense, yet they believe that he killed a 17yr old unarmed kid in self defense?

Racism is alive , if not well on this board. Ya'll should be ashamed of yourselves for defending this mad dog. Or at least start your posts, "I'm not a racist, but ..."

Zimmerman pursued this young man. This is murder, plain and simple.

I'm not a racist, but justice has never been served by hysteria, propaganda, and mis-information. This is the mob mentality of the lynch mob.

doctorisin

God Damn Awful MSNBC.COM report again. Woefully lacking in any common sense. They were in a GATED COMMUNITY! Did Martin have the right to be in the community? That makes a big difference.

And a 17 year old is not a child. Anyone who has seen a high school football game knows what a 17 year can look like 6' 3" and 250 lbs.

Zimmerman had head and back wounds. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm a dead man cannot be Lazarus arise from the dead and beat a man over the head and pretend to be dead again.

Unfortunately, I lived in a foreign country and on four occasions it was shoot first and ask questions later, kidnap attempt, attempted kidnap of son, ramming of boat and deliberate intent to break down main compound door to invade house.

If what freedman1 says is correct, then the incident seems to an attack by Martin, perhaps to rob the truck or Zimmerman and Zimmerman protecting himself.

There were three witnesses in Zimmerman's favor, it is a gated community. Was Martin in the gated community legally? Was Zimmerman following Martin to see if he was looking for something to rob.

You need several sources before you can come up with a clear conclusion. First of all, ok at the picture of the kid that was shot and that wannabe vigalente. The kid sure doesn't look like a 6"3' and 250 lbs. More like 150 lbs tops. Zimmerman has at least 100 lbs more weight than the kid. Why you referencing a football player to this? Is Martin wearing football pads and helmet to appear larger than he appears? Um no, just regular street clothes.

By this time you probably already heard about the phone call records. Stated that Martin was using his cellphone to talk to a girl for several hours, went to the store to get snacks for NBA game and was heading back while still talking on his cellphone. What does it matter if its a gated community or not? Zimmerman saw a suspicious individual in the neighborhood, called 911 and was told not to follow to kid. He ignored the advice and was itching play cops with a gun. You can't follow an individual then end up chasing the kid, tackle the kid then shooting him while claiming self defense. It sure doesn't sound right.

I'm sure if I was 17 yrs old, just coming back from the store with snacks...... then some strange guy is following you in his vehicle, comes out yelling then start chasing you. I'm sure you would be running too.

Freedman, I tried to see the other side, but when you listent to the 911 tapes, it cannot be argued. Zimmerman should not have been near the kid and the tape has him saying he is already chasing the kid. He was breathing heavy and the dispatcher asked why---he was already out of the truck. That contradicts the story of him getting out of the truck and being jumped. I read the article to the link you listed, it is one of those breaking news blurbs that dont' provide good info. The police would not even commment. Keep in mind, eye witnesses are the weakest account as their perception is easily altered. The 911 tape has not been adjusted. Just a thought.

bencas, then the thing to do is leave it to the investigating authorities. The cops already investigated, and found no cause to arrest the man. Possibly it's a giant conspiracy, because cops always give fat Mexicans the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know how many fat people you know, but breathing heavy in a stress situation is pretty normal. If he'd have gotten a bit more excited and had a heart attack, then things would be fine, I suppose.

Three witnesses is pretty good in any court of law, for most anything. Remember, this is America. Nobody has to prove they are innocent. Instead, we are always assumed to be innocent until proven otherwise.

I do not see how the "stand your ground" law would apply to someone FOLLOWING another person, even after being told NOT TO by the cops!!! The vigilante decided he was judge, jury and executioner and needs to go to trial and spend many years in prison. Considering that this happened in Florida, he will probably be found not guilty and let go.

AKRandy

The family says he is Hispanic!!

MSNBC never misses the chance to feed the fire of HATE!!

I don't get it. Are you saying that it wasn't a racially motivated crime because the Zimmerman is Hispanic?? Why? What does his being Hispanic have to do with anything. As far as calling Zimmerman white, in the US Census, a person can be white hispanic or black hispanic.

Beyond his being described as Hispanic, I have no idea what Zimmermans ethnic makeup is, I know his name is German.

If it came to deciding whether there was a racially motivated crime, the gauge is his attitude toward black people.

"Our investigation is color blind and based on the facts and circumstances, not color." - Chief Bill Lee, Sanford Police

Zimmerman told police he shot Martin in self-defense after calling 911 to report that the boy was acting suspiciously. Martin was walking home from a nearby store and only had a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.

On Monday night, Sanford police released six of the 46 calls Zimmerman routinely made to police during the months leading up to the night he shot and killed Martin.

Zimmerman placed approximately 10 percent of all the calls from his neighborhood to the Sanford Police last year.

Four of the six calls Zimmerman made to police start exactly the same way: He calls to report suspicious black men in his gated community.

Zimmerman told one of the emergency operators that his neighborhood had been "plagued" by a rash of break-ins.

In a call reporting the break-ins, Zimmerman told the operator he thought he'd found the suspects: "Two African American males."

In the calls, Zimmerman even reported things that are normal in neighborhoods, like an open garage door and kids playing in the street.

WFTV also found out the 28-year-old has a history of not just reporting people to the police, but also following them, like he did with Martin.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-police-release-new-calls-george-zimmerman/nLXs9/

Sounds like a over zealous wannabe vigilante with no military nor police background running around his neighborhood with a dangerous 9mm thinking he is the law. I'm surprised he didn't kill innocent people sooner.

I'm all for self-defense and owning gun to protect yourself and family. But not for acting like a moron like Zimmerman. His life was not in danger. He was simply looking for a fight. Killing this kid is not self defense.

This Zimmerman criminal was clearly looking for a confrontation with a young black kid when he began following/chasing Trayvon. Trayvon died while returning from purchasing skittles and tea. This story has NOTHING to do with self-defense whatsoever (yes--- it's a bad law--- but the law notwithstanding, this is a CRIMINAL act). Zimmerman committed a criminal act and must be charged. It was also a violation of Trayvon's civil rights for Zimmermann to shoot first and ask questions later. Zimmermann needs to be in jail for a LONG time!

Florida 'Stand Your Ground' law could complicate Trayvon Martin teen shooting case

There is nothing complicated about this Murder.

After buying candy from a store, Trayvon was walking back to a relative's home.

Zimmerman, a self-appointed vigilante who is eager to emulate Charles Bronson - however, only to prey upon the innocent - packed a gun and was looking for prey. Zimmerman saw Trayvon walking to his parent's home. Trayvon was not a a threat to anyone. The police ordered Zimmerman to not pursue the young man. However, this predator hunted this young man down, corned him - pumped a bullet into his chest and Murdered him!

The only "complication" here is that these 2 individuals are of different races...and that is why Zimmerman has not been arrested. Hopefully, public pressure will prod the system from its inertia in this case and allow Trayvon's death not to go unpunished.

17 years old isnt a child, they would go face to face, just to prove it.

Why arent they showing picture of recent, not when he was 10 years old.

because maybe he was a thug, PANTS TO THE GROUND!!!

Bassii: Next job interview you go on. See if white or Hispanic are different categories.

This is a case of a power drunk neighborhood activist killing a kid for resisting his BS. Nothing more.

Remember, this idiot was doing parking enforcement too. A authority wannabee.

By the way, power drunk neighborhood activists are common in FL. All flavors of creed.

He should be IN JAIL, AWAITING TRIAL.

And IF , local authorities pulled strings to keep him out? They should be in the cell next to him.

A OLD WHITE FLORIDIAN.

Zimmerman said that he

stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on?

Sounds like this was a bit of a song and tap dance to me. I suspect that Zimmerman stepped out of the truck to confront the youth and ended up on the receiving end of the fight Zimmerman started. By then Zimerman did indeed fear for his safety, pulled the gun and shot the youth dead.

Zmmerman was in total control of this situation up to the point where Martin had had enough of Zimmerman's stalking and started to fight back. Zimmerman should do some jail time because he used extraordinarily poor judgement, pushed a situation until the expected happened, and then when he was outmatch in a fistfight - brought his artillery into play.

Nobody had to die here. Zimmerman pushed the situation until it broke and then used his gun and self-defense as an excuse to avoid a beating he deserved for sticking his nose into another person's lawful business.

I think he should definitely be arrested because he failed to follow police orders not to pursue and did anyway. If he had followed the police then the force would not have been necessary thus it's not justifiable, so that violates the stand your ground law, making it not applicable in this case.

Here's the law: A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

However, All of that aside I'm not positive that the complete story is being told.

Here's why, I listened to a person reportedly from the community on the radio and she said that the neighborhood in the past year had been burglarized by young males repeatedly and that people had been robbed by young gang males at gun point. The area had become a hot bed for gang activity so everyone was terrified. The huge number of calls to 911 were supposedly mostly legitimate because of the dramatic increase in crime and little response from the police. Thus the reason for the armed neighborhood watch, which he supposedly wasn't the only watch person armed. No one was going out at night and that included black, white, and hispanic. If true then why was this "good" kid going out?

I'm not sure if these things are true!!!! but if so they put a different light on the situation than is being portrayed by the media who seem to be painting this guy as a lone vigilante. It would also explain why the police (black officers included) didn't push the issue. The guy was definitely in the wrong for not following police orders but the story that the kid was just out to buy skittles may not be completely accurate either. Having an adolescent son I know that girlfriends will say almost anything and young males will do things that are stupid, so it's sad either way that this kid lost his life.

Hopefully, the truth will come out and if this guy is guilty then he should go to prison for a long time!

You can be white AND Hispanic at the same time. Hispanic (or Latino) is not a race, it's an ethnic group only. His ancestors might've originated from Spain, but that still counts as "white." Whiteness is not just limited to those whose ancestors originated from non-Southern European countries.

What if this was the other way around and the Black kid killed the other Guy would We be hear having this conversation, this is what happens when profiling is used he assume the Black Kid was a criminal and pursed the issue if that kid was white he would not have given the kid a second thought, I know people don't want to acknowledge profiling is a very dangerous thing because they do it NOW with Mexicans and Blacks, if it were the Whites that this was happening too they would not like it, people need to take their heads out of their pie hole and see it from the other side, I'm not saying that Blacks did not bring this upon themselves, it's a fact that more Blacks are more likely a criminal and Mexicans are more likely illegals it's just the assumption that are very dangerous, and this is an example of how wrong it can be ......

Where was the outrage over this?
5 Teens Arrested for Setting Boy on Fire

All formality aside, this was a slaying no matter what the circumstances. The goddam kid is young and dumb and any reasonable adult should be able to process that, if the kid happened to swing at the guy or talk crap to him. There is no defense in my "make believe" courtroom for this case. The guy outweighed the kid significantly so he wouldn't have taken much of an a$$ whoopin' even if he was a complete sissy. You gun nutjobs out there are freakin insane and have a distorted view of morality. The funny thing is most of you claim to be christian..

5 Teens Arrested for Setting Boy on Fire in Deer Field Beach FL.

Where is the outrage?

5 black Juveniles set one white 15 Y/O white male on fire. Most media would not report the race. No hate crime charges filed.

I think there's a double standard don't you?

All of you are being played by the media and are too shallow to know it.

NoConsent, the teens were arrested. Can you comprehend the difference here, and what the outrage was about? And if you're talking about the incident where a boy threw rubbing alcohol on another kid and lit it, there was plenty of outrage when it happened.

I can't see how the Stand Your Ground rule applies here. Zimmerman started the "altercation" by continuing to pursue Trayvon Martin even after he was advised by the 911 dispatcher not to confront the boy. He pushed the issue, he wasn't cornered, he went after Martin, not the other way around. All Zimmerman had to do was wait until the police showed up. He didn't. He made the wrong choice, and he should pay for it.

@ Rick-3608408 Your comment is very racist in itself. You say that blacks are more violent and there are criminals but how many black serial murders are there? Every time I here about a serial murder that killed raped, mutilated and murdered people, they are white, not black or hispanic. By the way, last time I checked, a few years ago all the immigrants in this country ean, that is where many Grandma's & Grandpa's in this country came from and many were not legal when they came to this country but once they had a child over here their kids were citizens and thus you were born a citizen.

My comment - short and sweet. I wasn't there. May all of the appropriate authorities discover the facts behind the case and render a fair decision.

There is an inherent danger in forming an opinion on something based on nothing more than what the media has told you.

Will-1091847

So when you hear witness saying the local police were trying to get them to change their statements to say Zimmerman was yelling for helf instead of Trayvon which is what they first told police, you say render a fair decision? Trayvon's Mother and Father wasn't there also but they have the right to voice their opinion about what they think happened to their son. Now that it has been discovered that Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend while walking back home and that she has stated what Trayvon has said to her about being stalked by Zimmerman and then asking him " Why are you following me" you say let the locals render a fair decision. The inherent danger is this " Stand your ground" law which allows citizens to take the law into their own hands and declare self defense when clearly the tapes show Zimmerman stalked Trayvon Martin even after police dispatch told him not to follow the young man... That is where the true danger is, not people expressing their opinion, based off the facts that we know of at this point... As a neighborhood WATCH volunteer, Zimmerman's duty is to WATCH, not engage and engage with a weapon, a weapon watch volunteer's are not suppose to be carrying in the first place...

I listened to ALL of the 911 tapes and the statement of the ONE witness .. which is MORE than the police investigating the death of a 16 year old did. To you white racist pigs .. may you be reincarnated into a world where you are not a member of the majority race. This was NOTHING more than a power drunk vigalante wanting to use the stand your ground law to make a statement in his neighborhood and kill himself a black kid. He was setting the entire thing up on the 911 tape from the beginning by saying he's heading toward me with his hand in his waste band. THIS SHOULD SCARE THE HELL OUT OF EVERY FREE THINKING CITIZEN ON SO MANY LEVELS. FLORIDA you'd best get your racist heads out of the sand. I am white.. I use to live in Florida, I know the police in Sanford didn't give a rats ass because the kid was black and it totally disgusts me

TheresaInMaryland

I came to the same conclusion with Zimmerman saying he has his hand in his waste band. He was trying to paint the picture Trayvon had a weapon or he Zimmerman thought he had a weapon. This proves this action was premeditated. Zimmerman knew he had a weapon and planned to use it on this kid. He originally said Trayvon look suspicious. What was Trayvon doing to look suspicious, The kid was walking home form the store in the rain, what is so suspicious about that. He sterotyped the kid because he was wearing a hoodie as if he is up to no good. Zimmerman called 911 looking for an alibi to use the BS Stand your ground law because he knew he was going to shoot this kid. When Trayvon started running away from Zimmerman, he persued him eventhough police dispatch told him not to follow him, that is not standing your ground that is STALKING......

doctorisin

Yes Trayvon was in the gated community legally, he was visiting his father's girlfriend and they were watching the NBA All Star game. So Yes Trayvon Martin had a legal reason for being in that community.

When Trayvon Martin began to run away from Zimmerman, at that moment he was no longer a suspected threat to Zimmerman. Once Trayvon started running away from Zimmerman, Zimmermans life was no longer in danger. Zimmerman persued Trayvon after being told by police dispatch not to follow him. At that point Zimmerman became the aggressor, not Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman also knew he had a weapon, now I don't know where you are from but from where I come from, when you are carring your own weapon you don't run away, you " stand your ground". So since Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman it stands to reason Trayvon wasn't armed. I conclude Zimmerman came to that same conclusion and persued him knowing he (Zimmerman) was armed. Last, as a neighborhood WATCH volunteer your duties are to watch, observe and report. You duties are not to engage. And it has come out that the watch volunteers are not suppose to carry weapons, so why was Zimmerman violating that rule in the first place? Trayvon's parents weren't their either but they have the right to their opinion about what happend to their son and if they choose not to trust local authorities because of discrepancies, that is their right to seek justice at the state or federal level if necessary....

http://www.news-press.com/article/20120320/NEWS0107/120320028/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-brings-new-look-Stand-Your-Ground-law?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome

@cchan - If White and Hispanic were the same, we wouldn't have separate check boxes on govt. forms denoting ethnic origin. So no, Hispanic and White are not the same ethnic group.

There are just as many hate driven opinions today as there were yesterday, yet with no more FACTS revealed in the past 24 hours.

you are right politico...doctorisin should be banned from placing comments here all together, he sounds like someone who just wants to stir up trouble. another coward hiding behind his computer desk and that is ANYONE who is defending Zimmerman

Many of the posts on this board give good justification for the Federal government to come in and try get some justice for this oung man and his family.

Why is Zimmerman not in jail, and why for God's sake is he still walking around with his handgun? He was directed on tape by a Police Officer not to stalk and shoot the kid with the candy bar!

yes Mr Sharpton, racism is alive and well...

http://www.cbs12.com/news/student-4739496-threatening-kill.html

Why is there even one doubt about this case? The 911 tape says it all. Zimmerman should be in jail awaiting trial, no matter what colour or creed he many be.

Was the so called kid in a gated community where he didn't belong in the first place? Case is closed, Zimmerman is innocent.

“Stand Your Ground” law, which says a citizen doesn’t have to retreat before using deadly force against an attacker, could throw a legal wrinkle into the case of a neighborhood watch captain who shot to death an unarmed black teenager.

WHY is this still an issue?!?! Stand your ground does not apply to chasing after someone trying to get away from you even after the cops tell you not to, and then wrestling them to the ground and shooting them! Accidental discharge my butt! If this was my kid, Zimmerman would be dead right now!

Straight a Law Student - I agree that what he said was racist. But your point about serial killers being mostly white? I never understood that statistic because they obviously are not including Gang members who serially kill dozens of people. The definition of a serial killer according to the FBI is an individual that kills more than 2 people in seperate incidents with a cooling off period in between. This could describe gang members, drug cartel members, etc. But for some reason I don't understand they are excluded from the "serial killer" category. Of course I wonder what percentage of all murders are committed by "serial killers" versus other Multi-Killers?

A serial killer is typically defined as an individual who has murdered three or more people[1][2] over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.[3][4] Some sources disregard the "three or more" criteria, and define the term as "a series of two or more murders, committed as separate events, usually, but not always, by one offender acting alone" or, including the vital characteristics, a minimum of at least two murders.[4][5] Often, a sexual element is involved in the killings, but the FBI states that motives for serial murder include "anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention seeking".[5] The murders may have been attempted or completed in a similar fashion and the victims may have had something in common, for example, occupation, race, appearance, sex, or age group.[6]

So let me get this right,

If I don't like someone in Florida, I can just start a fight with them and then shoot them? So long as they get a few hits in? Yeah, who cares if they are armed with skittles and iced tea only - all I got to do is push them into a fight and have a tussle then shoot them because of the situation I created.

Hell, sounds great, especially since I can get drunk beforehand... the cops won't even bother testing me after I kill someone as per standard procedures apparently. Not even an official statement is necessary.

Why do murderers in FL bother hiding the bodies at all? Hell, Casey Anthony should have started a fight with her daughter and do it that way... just spare us all the long court case.

GrouchyDude

Was the so called kid in a gated community where he didn't belong in the first place? Case is closed, Zimmerman is innocent.

Did you even bother to read the article, do any research or gather the facts surrounding this case before you wrote your post?

Let me answer for you, NO.

Your screen name and this post speaks volumes about your intellect, or lack thereof.

Just so you don't have to go look it up, Trayvon was in that community legally. His father lived there, with his step-mother. Case closed. Now, don't you feel so sanctimoniously stupid.

Geez where do these ignorant people come from.

dont worry grouchyDude. go back to sleep.

The article that freedman1 refers to states that zimmerman got out of his truck to check the street name. HE was neighborhood watch he would have us believe that he didn't know the names of the streets in his own neighborhood. It also states that zimmerman said he was jumped from behind. He would have us believe that he was following a suspect that he thought was a criminal and then turned his back on said suspect upon exiting his truck. None of this seems likely. Also the websites name is MY FOX so you can draw your own conclusions as to the validity of the story.

None of this seems likely

That, and the 911 calls that you can listen to yourself directly contradict Zimmerman's initial story.

It's funny that freedman admonishes others for not 'getting all the facts' when he himself seems to be woefully underinformed. It seems though that he has made himself conspicuously absent after being informed by other Viners. Typical... doesn't even bother to own up to it.

xina- good point. however that definition of multi killers would also apply to many members of our military. killing seems to have become a way of life the world over. maybe its been since cain and able. now we have nation states profiling iran and ready to drop nuclears on iran to defend themselves. at this rate humans are going to run out of people to kill. i may need to stop smoking this kryptonite and save the day.

I think the "Stand Your Ground" law is going to be a moot point in this case. It states that the person defending themselves cannot be in the process of committing a crime. Last I checked, going up to random people on the street while armed constitutes "assault", which is any act that threatens violence against another person. Based on all that I've read, here's what I envision:

Zimmerman assaulted Martin by confronting him on a cold, rainy street... Martin fought back, scared for his life because he's being accosted by a 28-year-old stranger with a gun (which is protected self-defense, under the "Stand Your Ground" statute, coincidentally)... Martin's violent reaction prompted Zimmerman to fire his weapon... If that's how it happened, and given what evidence has been presented, I see that as the most likely course of events, then Zimmerman shot Martin after assaulting him, which voids the "Stand Your Ground" law.

There are two particular sections of the Florida law that I think will come into play:

The first is Section 1; (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

There was no forcible entry of a residence or removal of a person that had taken place that night, and no reason for Zimmerman to presume that it may occur (unless he wants to admit to being a racist), so there is no presumption of "reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm".

The second is Section 3; (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Since Zimmerman was pursuing, there is no reason to believe he feared for his life (if he was really afraid that he'd be killed, why didn't he wait for the police, like they *told him to do*?). And since Martin was not in the process of comitting a forcible felony, that eliminated all possible options that Zimmerman could rely on in the statute. Beyond that, if Martin did really attack Zimmerman, you have to realize that you have a 17-year-old boy being followed by a 28-year-old man with a gun down a dark and rainy street. Most likely, Martin's attack would be justified self-defense under the "Stand Your Ground" law, coincidentally. So even that attack cannot be said to provide a reasonable excuse for Zimmerman to have fired his weapom.

I would like to know if in this so called gated community if the streets are owned and maintained by the city or by the development itself. Also is there a guard at the gate or card access or is it just a gateway left wide open like many housing developments. Not that i believe it matters to this case but it may answer some of the posters concerns. If the city owns and maintains the streets i don't see how anyone could be considered as not belonging there gate or no gate.

@ Bassai

"Doesn't mean he isn't white. He could be purple and still be hispanic"

Seriously? Have you ever filled out a job application? Or a college application? White isn't just a color in this matter. White (caucasian) is a race. I may LOOK hispanic, but I'm still WHITE.

Straight A law Student (1.48)

I read the post you commented on and I find your response wanting. Rick the other poster reversed the positions to make a hypothetical and you evidently did not read his whole post or do not understand what he was trying to point out. If and when you pass the bar exam I hope I will never need your services because your understanding is lacking.

Zimmerman a Hispanic last name, really? Education is even worse than what I thought.

He may be half or a quarter Hispanic, but since his last name is Germanic it is as good as calling him White. At least his last name origin is flawed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerman

Anyone in their right mind will want to flee if the opportunity to do so exists. The problem is, that's not always an option.

If you are unable to flee and the law requires you to do so first, the onus is going to be on you to prove you didn't have that option. If you are elderly or disabled to the point you're in a wheelchair or using a walker, then maybe that won't be so tough. But if you didn't flee because you weren't familiar enough with the area to feel reasonably sure that where you could run to would in fact be safer or if, say, it appeared that one or more of your attacker's accomplices were in your only escape route, then you're probably going to have to have your attorney convince a jury of that. There's no sure bet in that, and the extra time - and therefore expense - it adds to your legal defense can be absolutely staggering. Things like that will boost a $10,000 attorney's bill to $100,000, no sweat.

All the Florida law and others like it do is remove the opportunity for a prosecuting attorney trying to build a name for themselves as a case-winner so they can become a high-dollar trial lawyer later on from exploiting your trial by trying to frame it on you not doing something you might not have been able to do, anyway. You'll always want to avoid having to shoot somebody at all costs because the results of that are horrific. The only thing worse is the effect your death or permanent vegetative state caused by your attacker will have on your family. Prosecuting attorneys like to claim they're providing a public service and making less money than others in private practice do, but they're still attorneys and just as much a dirtbag as any others. They'll trample over anyone whenever it suits them as an opportunity to advance their career. Not having to prove to a court that you had no chance to escape makes it significantly more difficult for them to steamroller over you while enhancing their resume with one more conviction.

Zimmerman a Hispanic last name, really?

No, but who's to say his mother and birth father, or his father and birth mother, weren't Hispanic and Zimmerman was the name of an adoptive father, step father, grandparents who raised him, or any other situation. Happens rather commonly.

Law stating that those with the power and the guns and the connnections can get away with hunting down people

Okay...he had a gun. There has been some question raised by others if he even legally possessed it in the first place or had a valid permit to carry it. But power and connections? I'm not seeing that.

It is entirely possible that the police felt it was murder but were not confident that they could build a solid case against him at the time. They may well have determined that he is not a flight risk for whatever the reason and that he would be easy to find later on. Remember, statue of limitations generally does not apply to murder in most places. If even ten or twenty years pass before more evidence were to surface, they could still show up and haul him in for murder, no sweat. Most anything else, they'd have to do it within a few years. Murder, they can hunt you down for the rest of your life.

A little bit of background: Several latin american countries forbid immigration into their countries by blacks.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Stalking is a crime the last time I checked. That automatically negates the whole "Stand your ground" defense. The bottom line is this: If Martin attacked Zimmerman because he felt threatened then that actually means Martin was acting in self defense. If Martin decided to turn around and approach Zimmerman because he was pissed that he was being followed and that made Zimmerman scared, then that helps Zimmerman's case but only a little. You can't provoke someone into a fight and then claim self defense when they start walking towards you.

The only way I would believe Zimmerman's account is if Martin abruptly turned around and charged at Zimmerman with intent to harm him. But if Martin approached just to say "why are you following me?" and one of them started pushing then it was a fight that ended up in a death and not a case of self defense. If both parties willingly engage in violence then they are both at fault. One cannot later say that he was acting in self defense just because he was fortunate enough to be the one that lived.

Sonny as a parent and someone who worked with teens those are not the pictures of a 17 yr old but of someone about 12 or 13 years old. I worked card checking at a bar I can tell a preteen from a 17 yr old. I also knew 17 yr olds who could kick your a$$ into next week. In my state a 17 yr old who moves out of his parents house can be an emancipated minor and be treated legally in all things as an adult. I do not know the laws on that in Florida. But in most states 16yr olds can be held criminally liable as an adult. So Martin was not a child but a young man.

Hadenough:

The kid sure doesn't look like a 6"3' and 250 lbs. More like 150 lbs tops.

The child in the picture looks 12. Maybe they just didn't have any current photos. Or maybe it's a ploy for sympathy. But there were several years between the time the picture was taken and the time of the incident.

Viewfromthemiddle:

...and that is ANYONE who is defending Zimmerman

Posting a viewpoint that disagrees with your own is not grounds for banning.

1.68:

The article that freedman1 refers to states that zimmerman got out of his truck to check the street name. HE was neighborhood watch he would have us believe that he didn't know the names of the streets in his own neighborhood.

Or the houses are all alike, and he got out to check which of several streets with identical-looking houses he was on.

--------------------------

Now, even with all that, Zimmerman did pursue when he should not have. That does void the "stand your ground" provision. Maybe he thought the guy was a threat. And maybe he was just being stupid with an inflated ego. But that is still a manslaughter charge. I do not believe, at this point that he was looking to murder someone and use self-defense as a false excuse. I think he pursued when he should not have, got into a fight he didn't expect, and fired his gun.

Scar-414733
Bassii: Next job interview you go on. See if white or Hispanic are different categories.

Well I checked out two different applications. The first was the SF 612 for federal jobs and the second was for Wendy's. I am probably over qualified for one and under qualified for the other so I don't think that I will bother applying for either. Neither asked anything at all about race or ethnic origin.

Now in this report The Hispanic Population: 2010 2010 Census Briefs I did find the following whic among other things adresses the question they asked about hispanic origin:

Hispanic origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States. People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be any race.

willowbrook had this to say:

@cchan - If White and Hispanic were the same, we wouldn't have separate check boxes on govt. forms denoting ethnic origin. So no, Hispanic and White are not the same ethnic group.

I take it that willowbrook did not bother looking at a federal government form and how it asks about ethnic origin. If you check an actual federal form (and you could find one at opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf181.pdf), you will see that Hispanic is not listed as a race.

One is asked, separately, if one is Hispanic or Latino, "regardless of race." One is then asked one's race, and allowed to check as many boxes as one likes, according to how one self-identifies. The options are: American Indian or Alaskan Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander, and White. (I found it interesting that the options were in alphabetical order.)

So, it might be nice to consider whether or not people are right rather than simply rejecting what they have to say. I think that I have seen some forms that say "White--non-Hispanic" as a category other than "Hispanic," but it's been a while since I saw that. Hispanics can be Black, White, or American Indian (or all three). Have a great day.

As a number of people have already mentioned, "Hispanic" is not a race.

Don't believe us? You can read all about it here:

http://www.census.gov/population/race/

But, to me, the argument is moot anyway. Not being white is not an automatic pass on being a racist. It seriously irks me that the family is using being Hispanic as their evidence that Zimmerman could not be a racist. Racists exist everywhere and in every color of the rainbow. Hate doesn't get a pass because your skin isn't white.

For those advocating Hispanic is not a race, I think you will have a hard time convincing hispanics of that.... and I conclude not one of you are brave enough to say that directly to a hispanic male one on one, up close and personal...

Actually, if you went to Central or South America and went around telling people they were all part of a Hispanic 'race', they'd think you were spouting gibberish

I'm Ringo

I totally disagree with you, I did not have that experience from my tours of duty in Honduras and Belize performing military operations and working closley with the Honduran and Belize military. I also did not encounter that mentality when I went forth into populated areas of those countries for R&R. So exactly what countries are you referring to where they would think one is spouting gibberish in referencing a Hispanic race?

Unless you were working with them closely on census information or something like that, then why would it have come up? I can think of plenty of people I've known for a decade or two without the topic of race ever coming up.

As for people feeling they come from different races, that is true from the Dominican Republic to Uruguay to Chile to Costa Rica to Argentina to Panama to Belize to Columbia and more.

They use terms like mestizo, mulatto, afrodescendiente, etc to distinguish. They have racism as well (which would be a bit odd in a society where everyone viewed themselves as the same race).

PoliticoMan-1635309
For those advocating Hispanic is not a race, I think you will have a hard time convincing hispanics of that.... and I conclude not one of you are brave enough to say that directly to a hispanic male one on one, up close and personal...

There is no advocacy to it. That is how it is and as Ringo said why would it come up unless you are working on the census or something else like that? Here are a couple of footnotes from the Census Bureau State and County Quick Facts for my state:

Population estimates for counties will be available in April, 2012 and for cities in June, 2012.

(a) Includes persons reporting only one race.
(b) Hispanics may be of any race, so also are included in applicable race categories.

For all of you saying that "17 isn't a child" I have news for you.. it is! I'm on my second 17 year old, and they are STILL children! My 15 year old is the size of an adult height wise... does that make him an adult?? LOTS of teens are very tall, but they're still children in their actions, in their brains, etc. I would be VERY angry if someone tried to say that my 17 year old had the same mental faculties as someone who's nearly 30! Height means nothing.

A 17 year old boy isn't required by law to register with the selective service to be considered for a draft into our nations military. An 18 year old MAN is. Adulthood in the United States is recognized at the physical age of 18 even though most 18 year olds have the mental age of 16 or 17. Most 18 year olds are not mentally capabile to go out into the world after leaving high school and fin for themselves. Most stay at home for a few years to maintain that parental support and love. My son is 19 and I don't want him to leave for a few more year. If he decides to leave earlier, I must do the right thing and let him go.. My son is 19 and small for his age, like jag24659 says size means nothing. I also know some 15-16 year old foot ball players who are taller than me and outweighs me by 75-100 lbs. But they are still KIDS.....................

I'm Ringo & Bassai

#1.90 & 1.91 - It came up during the course of conversation because I am African American. They wanted to know how I identify myself, as an American or Black. My response was and still is, I'm an American citizen and my race is black. When I posed the same question to them because of my curiosty my answers were the same for both countries, they identified themselves as citizens of their countries, Honduras and Belize and their race is Latino. Currently I have Hispanics assigned to my present unit and their answer is also the same, They are American citizens and their race is Hispanic... That is why I say you will have trouble convincing Hispanics, they are of the white race. None I've ever encountered referr to themselves as white or black, either Hispanic or Latino.....

In Central and South America, there are a whole slew of different 'racial' classifications that they assign themselves. Personally, I think the concept of race is obsolete and illogical to begin with. I certainly have no interest in trying to convince others that they should identify as a certain race.

By killer, are you referring to Zimmerman or Martin? Zimmerman had no idea whether Martin had a gun. That is common sense. So, based on what we know so far, we don't really know much. My gut instinct tells me that in pursuing Martin after calling in Martin (which, calling in non-neighborhood people casing a gated community, is what they are supposed to do) Zimmerman was not only failing to flee a potential altercation but trying to initiate. However, I wasn't there and neither were you. So we can speculate and try to spin things by using words like 'boy' and refering to him having candy. However, I think it serves everybody better to look at this for what it is. A 17 year old in the wrong place with an overzealous community watcher. I don't know anything about Martin. He could be a straight A student who does community service. Or, he could run drugs and case out houses for a burglary ring; unbeknownst to his parents. I don't know anything about Zimmerman, except that he should have stayed put when the dispatcher told him to. If Martin then attacked him while he was waiting for the police; well then, that would just be unlucky wouldn't it?

Wake up...you might want to find a story that matches your venting:)

It's unbelievable that anyone would defend someone that would do something like this. The facts are clear in this case. There is no doubt of guilt in this case. Vigilantes who murder unarmed people in the street are guilty of murder.

Enough is enough!. How many more people have to be killed because of this Stand your Ground law. There are already laws protecting people using lethal force in cases of self-defense. And the matter gets worse when everybody can get a permit to carry a concealed gun; to me it's clear that if the politicians don't get rid of -or amend- this stand your ground law, more and more innocent people will unnecessarily die, ENCOURAGED by this law. A 17 year old child is dead and the shooter would probably get 10 years (?) in prison. Where is the sense of all this?

freed/dumbman1 - did you listen to the 911 tapes? Everything you quoted in defense of the killer is absurd.

I listened to whatever the media swung my way, Jim. Have you heard them all? Have you heard this one?

This one is from a 13 year old witness.

********************

"My brother said someone got shot behind our house," McLendon's older sister told a 911 dispatcher. "I heard something and then my brother ran into the house," she said.

"Is your brother there?" the dispatcher asks.

"He's next to me," she says.

"Okay, can you give him the phone?"

Austin comes on the line: "I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help, that was screaming and then I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, so I went and got my dog, and then I heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped."

The dispatcher asks: "Did you see the person get shot? Did you know the person that was shot, or did you see the person that had the gun?"

"No, I just heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped," Austin replied.

@freedman1 Not a single thing you've said or shown proves the Zimmerman did not kill Martin in cold-blood. For instance, the 13y/o witness never states who he saw on the ground yelling for help. It could have either Zimmerman or Martin. Witnesses have stated repeatedly that it was a boy screaming not Zimmerman. Witnesses also came right out and said that they did not believe this was self-defense in a press conference in Florida. The video saying both can be found at the WESH 2 NBC site along with a disturbing accusation that they tried to tell the police what happened only to be rebuffed. Nearly even 911 placed, including Zimmermans own, disputes Zimmermans claims and so does the girl Martin was talking to on the phone during a call which records place near the time of his death. Not to mention that the Sanford police department fail to test Zimmerman for intoxication, which is their own standard procedure. The investigation needs a serious review at the very least.

Now, I'm going ask a question here: If Zimmerman was attacked from behind by Martin and he drew Zimmermans blood where is the evidence on Martin's person to support that? Was Martin wet in a consistent pattern with forcing Zimmerman into the grass? Was Zimmerman's blood on Martins body or clothes? Was there any grass or grass stains on Martin person? How did Zimmerman manage to free his gun if he failed to stop Martin from attacking him? In short is the evidence to support Zimmermans claim of being attacked?

The way I see it, Zimmerman was a trigger-happy stalker who wanted to be a vigilante. So he tried to provoke an innocent boy to give himself an excuse to exact "justice".

I would carey it one step further. I think it was premeditated. The phone call, describing something not true. Backed up by his call to his grilfriend.he wasn't acting suspitious, if he was he was scared of someone following him. Lets look into Zimmermans record, crimanaly. I usually think race is an easy way out. Not this time. I think he had a gun , he was incharge and wanted the thrill of saving his comunity. I know I am crazy but if truth was ever to be told I am right. just like O.J. really committed those murders.

Freedman lost all credibility the second he said everyone across the board is considered innocent until proven guilty. That is the funniest line I've ever heard and goes hand in hand with all those Bronze Era recycled crime statistics that don't tell the whole story which his type likes to tug out in cases like these. Always trying to find some way to spin water out of being wet, and then claiming if you don't let them get away with it, it's reverse racism. Pfft. Where are the head to head statistics outlining the ration of arrests to convictions for identical charges broken down by race? That's the part of the paperwork the dog always eats, and it's no mystery as to why.

And this WakeUpAmerica guy? I really wish these people would stop trying to cling to Ron Paul. The only thing you have in common with Paul is a belief that America should be for Americans first and that no foreign lobby should be dictating policy and setting priorities that override the obligation of our government to our best interests before anyone else's. And that includes Israel's.

I agree with that, and small government. Where you and yours go off the rails WakeUp is that you don't believe what you say anywhere near as much as you claim to. It's certainly not important enough to you "Natives" to find a middle ground and some sort of national solidarity with other American citizens of different races, many of whom might agree with you, so why should anyone buy your brand? If I were Black you wouldn't care if I agreed with you or not - you still wouldn't drop your issues with me long enough to solve such problems together.

Oh. By the way - as a German? The only thing about supremacists and racists that irritates me more than when they turn into racism apologists and try to co-opt Paul is when they attempt to co-opt what they think is German mindset by yammering on in full apologist mode about Adolf.

Hispanics have always attacked and killed black people and got away with it because they are not white. Had a Northern European type white person done what he cold bloodedly carried out that person would not only be arrested on the spot but lynched by the media and moral self-indulging liberals. Where did this Hispanic get the Jewish name Zimmerman from? A real Jewish person wouldn't murder someone in cold blood. The demographic in Florida isn't safe for African Americans now that the nasty Cubans and Hispanics have virtually taken over from the gentle, kind and forgiving Anglo-Saxon white folks.

Reenua you're no better than Zimmermann if you think this is as one sided your way as Zimmermann thinks it is his way.

These race wars are a construct. Don't you get that? The same thing being fomented in the Middle East between races and religions is being trumped up and nurtured here too. People can't succeed as a group when they're too busy fighting over who's going to fail the biggest as individuals. By drawing more lines in the sand between yourselves and other Americans, you simply give up (not lose) sight of the big picture.

No race in this country seems to be grasping that en masse and it will be America's undoing.

Ban handguns.

Hey "WakeupAmerica," stop polluting this network with your ridiculous propaganda.

Takenaka, no way would I give up my weapons!

Reenua I totally agree let's get the party started. Yeah right lot of talk and no action, this has been brewing for a long time. 2012 with a black president? Please I wouldn't go too far with that; as bad as he has failed this country. Not saying he's a bad person at all, just a failed leader and I'm not sure who would be good. All we have had the choice of is the lessor of the two evils. Zimmerman will be investigated and should be, this probably has been going on and just because the sheriff's office hasn't give the info out to everyone doesn't mean the case was just dropped.

Everyone is saying that Zimmerman is trying to mislead this case and that's a fair assessment. I say both sides are misleading this case to sway the favorable outcome their way. Hence the 9-10 yr. old photo's of Martin, saying he went to the store to buy candy and a ice-t. If it were me I would be looking for the evidence that would prove the stand your ground law and if it applied, then, the case would be closed. However if it did not then, I would convict to the fullest extent of the law. The one thing we all know is that they say the tapes weren't altered, are we sure about that. You know law enforcement will keep their CYA when all else fails.

It is your right to disagree with me and I can get through it w/o losing sleep. The only thing is I have children and can not imagine what these parents are going through. My hope is that they find peace for themselves and that justice prevails no matter which way the ball bounces.

If you're a parent you know in your heart that when your children aren't around you, they aren't the sweet little angels you'd like them to be.

An Historical quiz for all you "race-neutrals" - I'll keep it true/false to make it even simpler.

Q.) Black People of Africna origin enslaved White Northern European People and built a society and economic system based on their forced labor for over 200 years.

Q.) White People until approximately 50 years ago insisted on foramllly and structurallly segregating themselves from people of African origins in the AMerican SOuth until they were forced by the Federal government to abandon the practice.

Q.) People of African origin were routinely subject to extra-judicial murder (lynching) for things that today are not even considered illegal.

To deny this reality has any impact on today's current racial situation is like saying that last year's rainfall has nothing to do with why there is water in the pond behind my house.

Excuse me but for everybody calling Martin a poor boy if you had called him a boy to his face you would be called a racist. You would have had every black group in Florida screaming for your racist head.

Herrin:

Freedman lost all credibility the second he said everyone across the board is considered innocent until proven guilty.

That is the official legal standard. I admit it doesn't always work out that way. But it is supposed to. I take it your view is "hang him from a tree, first; and don't bother with a trial"?

Okay--let's say that you are being followed by a person who is bigger than you and you get scared and walk faster, then run. The person follows you and accosts you, pointing a gun at you. Are you going to just stand there, or are you going to fight back--perhaps attempting to use deadly force.

If Trayvon tried to fight the guy--and he might actually have taken him by surprise and had the upper hand for a moment--and then was shot, this still does not excuse Zimmerman. Trayvon was the one who felt his life was in danger--and he may have been trying to use "deadly force" to get away. Zimmerman shot him.

Even if Zimmerman was on the ground and shot to save himself, the question is who was the one who started the whole thing. One cannot pick a fight with someone, threatening that person, and then say it was "self-defense" when one then shoots the person.

If a criminal comes up to you, and you pull a gun to defend yourself, and the criminal shoots and kills you first . . . this is not "self-defense" for the criminal.

So, the question is--will the "Stand Your Ground" defense work for someone who provoked the fight and who was the one who was initially acting threatening? I believe that the case needs to be adjudicated--because if they are going to let off a perpetrator who provokes a fight or who threatens someone else and then kills that person before the person can kill the perpetrator, I very much think that you just made murder legal as long as the person murdered doesn't just scream for help and stand there pathetically. Is that the intended goal of the law? If not, then perhaps the law needs changing.

@sleepAmericakakka - you need a vasectomy and an anal probe to search for a viable brain.

since this guy has a crimnal record, they also be able to get him on a firearms charge.

Sabine, I contest if that can of ice-t was being used about the head and shoulders, then, it is considered a weapon. This is where the law would apply. Let the investigation take place and then we'll see who is right.

My2cents, if he has misdemenor charges, or, charges dropped to misdemenor he is allowed to own a weapon. The only people whom are not allowed to have them are felons. This is another law that needs to be changed, if they done their time to the community they should be accepted as any other citizen. Allowed to vote and to own a weapon! No body wants to forgive and let live anymore, it's almost like they're being set up to fail.

I may not be a lawyer, but if Zimmerman was pursuing the child then her is a murderer and deserves a conviction on that. As far as the 'Shot first ask questions later law' that is the worst law I have ever seen, I believe in conseal and carry, but there needs to be some common sense on who can carry.

@Wakeupamerica - you are a racist that must have no intelligence to read from more the one source. To get a good picture of the issue read from more than 1 place and include some of the foreign media outlets like the BBC, German, russian media. and grow up.

Darrell

According to Zimmerman's 911 call, he was CHASING Martin against the advice of the 911 operator. Zimmerman was the aggresor and Martin had every right to defend himself even if it meant beating Zimmerman about the head and shoulder with his ice-t can. The law should not apply if you are the aggresor and the other person is just defending themselves from you.

Donna I'm not sticking up for Zimmermam, I kind of see it the same as you, however, I am not the law and can't make that judgement. I will stand up for the law; it is a good law for people to not be victims, if they choose not to be.

As well he also stated on the 911 tapes that Martin was coming to check him out, cant' pick and choose what you want. Let the investigation take place and see what happens.

Because Zimmerman isn't reading this story after the fact. Otherwise, he'd know that Martin didn't have a gun.

Doctorisin, your racism is showing. Why shouldn't a 17 year-old black boy be in a gated community??? His parents can't be well-to-do enough to live there? Or you think they have no right to live there? No matter how you dance away from it, your comment is absolutely and ludicrously racist.

He lived there, white hat. He wasn't "in the wrong place," Zimmerman was--chasing someone down and attacking them on the street FOR NO REASON. Would you like to invite him into your neighborhood to chase your son with a gun, fight with him and shoot him? Can you imagine any way he could claim self defense in that case? Of course not, don't be a liar. Don't you think that should be a crime? Of course you do, don't be a hypocrite.

Zimmerman is the criminal, here, no question. You can't just assault people on the street because you don't like how they look, or even if they don't live there, which Trayvon did. That's illegal. If you do and you pull a gun and shoot them, that's murder, causing a death during the commission of a crime--unprovoked, racially based assault, battery and use of deadly force on an unarmed, innocent child.

This man has admitted and 911 tapes have proven, that he chased this child down with a gun, with a gun out and ready to use FOR NO REASON. Trayvon's last words "why are you following me?" The only reason for them to be on the ground fighting is that Zimmerman either grabbed him or pointed the gun straight at him. Trayvon DID NOT attack him, he was trying to get away the whole time, the tapes prove that. Zimmerman's answer to Trayvon's question was a bullet. Clearly, the answer was "I'm following you because I want to kill you."

Get that? --KILLED FOR NO REASON. NO CRIME had been committed. NO WEAPON was seen. NO THREAT was made by Trayvon. ALL EVIDENCE show that Zimmerman was chasing this boy down. ALL EVIDENCE shows that this boy was trying to get away from him and was actually smart enough to not run like a guilty person or prey. Sadly, Zimmerman didn't care, he wanted to "get one"--he told the dispatcher that!--and he killed Trayvon because, clearly he wanted to.

Do you seriously believe that someone should be able to walk up to you in your neighborhood and shoot you FOR NO REASON?

There was NO REASON to "wait for the police." WAIT FOR WHAT??? WHY? You can't stop people on the street and say "I don't like how you look, you must stay here and wait for the police with me." THAT's NUTS.

freedman1 and others -- For God's sake, can't you see that it was the boy who was attacked by Zimmerman and defending himself? Suppose he'd had a gun and the neighborhood watch wannabe didn't--and the boy shot him in "self defense." Do you in a million years think that would fly? Even with the tapes showing that Zimmerman was the aggressor?

Hispanics can certainly be white and racist. Even if not white, still could be racist. Obviously, he thought Trayvon was suspicious because he was black because there WAS NO OTHER REASON--even Zimmerman couldn't think one up as a lie.

zoraster, obviously Zimmerman DIDN'T CARE that Trayvon had no gun and obviously he knew he didn't. Duh. If Trayvon had a gun, he would have had it out and used it in honest self defense--and very likely would have been arrested, charged and put away for life, if not executed for it.

Chris65, I have kids from 12 to 21, I teach high school, and the boy in that picture could easily be 17. or 14. or 19. You don't know what you're talking about.

You still didn't explain how Zimmerman's life was threatened in order to claim self-defense if he did the chasing and the initiated the confrontation. After clearly told by the 911 operator to not persue the kid. Was the kid observed trying to break into a car? Um no. Was he vandalizing or waving a weapon around? Um no. He was just trying not to get wet from the rain.

mdmtnwmn - one of the witnesses right on the scene says it was Zimmerman crying for help. That has been corroborated by others. The poor young child just happened to be beating a guy who happened to have a pistol.

If anyone had the right to STAND THEIR GROUND in this case it was Trayvon. The kid was walking home. notices he is being watched and followed by a strange white man. Trayvon had no idea who this man was. With his girlfriend on the phone urging him to run from ther stranger Trayvon tried to walk away but the strange man got out of his car and followed so Trayvon ran from the stranger. Unfortunately the stranger caught Trayvon who naturally started fighting to get away from the strange man who then shoots him dead. The stranger turns out to be Zimmerman who claims self defense. The police in Sanford give him a walk because they can't prove it wasn't self defense. If anyone had the right to claim self defense it was Trayvon.

Are parents now supposed to tell kids not to run from strangers, you must let them catch you because if you don't submit to his will the stranger can legally kill you.

@zoroaster - Trayvon was walking back to his Father's house and had every right to be there. Captain of the Neighborhood Watch does not give Zimmerman the legal right to chase and shoot black kids for being in a gated community. According to reports Trayvon was not a big 17 year old, Zimmerman was about 3 inches taller and at least 80 lbs heavier. It should also be noted that no drugs or alcohol were found in Trayvon's system and he had never had any run ins with the law in his life.

The fact is Zimmerman was ordered not to follow the victim. He murdered the boy in cold blood.

Great script MrTellAll. Unfortunately, your version may be far from the truth. I laugh at you people who, after the fact, state that he didn't have a gun. If you've ever been mugged by someone on a dark street, you'd realize that after the fact information like this is not very comforting when your lying on the ground getting beaten.

zoroaster

Zimmerman was the aggressor. Martin did not approach him in his vehicle and pull him out of it and start beating on him. Martin was running away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman continued to chase him even though the 911 operator informed him to not chase him and wait for the police. If he was lying on the ground getting beaten it is because Martin was defending himself from someone whom he thought was trying to mug him. Zimmerman's 911 calls show him to be the aggressor and just because he states after the fact that he got out of his vehicle to check the street sign (likely story) and Martin attacked him, that does not coincide with what he says on the 911 tapes.

A police dispatcher is usually not a trained peace officer, and thus cannot give
"orders"

The tapes should prove nothing to you all, since none of you can identify the paniced cries of either man, having not met them or ever even heard them speak. All the evidence is obviously not in this article, so to create a lynch mob out of MSNBC's incomplete reporting reduces yourself to the level of "savage" that you factlessly acuse zimmerman of. Let all the evidence come out before you point your fingers in the dark.

I want every one calling this 17yr old black man a boy to walk up to a 17 yr old black man and call him a boy to his face. Just see what happens if you do that.

There is NEVER an excuse for killing a child. NEVER. There is always another option. And yes, a 17 year old is a child. I've seen 17 year old black boys that look like they're 12; those are recent pictures of the >>BOY<< that $&@#&^% MURDERED in cold blood!!

There is always another option.

Yes, but sometimes that option is dying, especially if a 16- or 17-year-old "child" is pointing a gun at you. That's not the situation, here; but you did say "always." I have never seen a 17-year old that looked 12. Seventeen years old is physically an adult. It is only mentally and emotionally that the person is still a child. He is potentially as dangerous as any adult (maybe more so.)

I remember when my child was 17, he was 6' 1" and 220. He took down an older and larger adult that instigated a shoving match during a recreation league game and his only comment afterwards was "he really wasn't that strong."

Joesnopy

So how can any grown person say this is right. A kid vs a grown a$$ man.

How long have you been living under that rock? Try wandering around LA some night and see how long it takes for some 14 year old to shove a blade between your ribs.

I got mugged by a 16 year old and two 17 year olds eating candy last year. Left me with a concussion that took several weeks to recover from. Such sweet boys, what with their candy just strolling through the neighborhood...

What part of the 911 telling the guy not to follow do you not understand????

I have lived in that area of FL Hispanics have this chip on their shoulders towards every other racial group.

Again he was told not to follow. FL's stupid law doesn't apply.

Careful uncz. Statements like that will get you branded a racist. But, yeah, I think the key point here is that he called in a suspicious person and, at that point, had no reason to follow. That will be hard to overcome.

I got mugged by a 16 year old and two 17 year olds eating candy last year. Left me with a concussion that took several weeks to recover from. Such sweet boys, what with their candy just strolling through the neighborhood...

Apparently you still haven't recovered from that concussion. You're actually advocating pre-emptive lethal strikes for walking with candy.

Fail Head n jar...

Simply making a statement that just because someone is walking around with candy does not mean something else is going on. We dont know the facts in this case, all the evidence has not been released. To scream guilty only knowing part of the evidence is the exact kind of fear mongering that the media thrives on, dont fall into the trap.

No severed head he is telling you a 17 yr old is not the cute little 13 yr old in all the pictures. A 17 yr old football player can kick the a$$ of most out of shape 28 yr olds and from FBI statitics the majority of hand to hand confrontations last less than a minute. So lets judge this on the facts of which we only have one side at this point.

lonereb, (would that were true), you can continue to try an justify this child's murder by suggesting "his pictures aren't current" all you like... however, even the police agree the child weighed about 140 lbs. Pick another defense... this one is stupid.

The picture of him in the "hoodie" was taken a few months ago!

sadly its getting to the point in this country where that may soon be a reality

This is why sensible, humane people are moving out of America every day. America has become the Wild West, nation-wide, with gun-toting, egotistical nuts willing to kill anyone that crosses them.

Life threatened? No Way. A man with gun wanting to act big? Definitely.

Yet another eye witness. Think I'll wait for the Grand Jury version.

So true, I personally feel that Zimmerman is going to end up charged; rightfully. However, my personal feelings shouldn't be misconstrued as fact. We don't know that Martin didn't force the contact. We know that Zimmerman didn't back away, which is why I feel he's culpable to a point. However, this dribble about a 17 year old boy with candy not being a threat is making me angry. My personal experience is that a 17 year old boy is just as dangerous as a 30 year old man if he knows how to be.

So how about we just have neighborhood watch people who aren't law enforcement on duty not carry guns. It is just looking for trouble.

Sounds like a wannabe vigilante with no police training thinking he is above the law just because he is the captain of neigborhood watch with a gun.

He was never approached and had to force contact.

"He's here now just looking at all the houses. Now he's just staring at me...He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?" - 911 call from Zimmerman

Hispanics have always attacked and killed black people and got away with it because they are not white. Had a Northern European type white person done what he cold bloodedly carried out that person would not only be arrested on the spot but lynched by the media and moral self-indulging liberals. Where did this Hispanic get the Jewish name Zimmerman from? A real Jewish person wouldn't murder someone in cold blood. The demographic in Florida isn't safe for African Americans now that the nasty Cubans and Hispanics have virtually taken over from the gentle and kind Anglo-Saxon white folks.

freedman1

Walking towards Zimmerman's vehicle does not prove that he was approaching to make contact. Zimmerman is sitting in his vehicle checking Martin out. Even Zimmerman said, "he is coming to check me out", which is logical considering that Zimmerman is staring at Martin. Don't you think that Martin was thinking the same thing about what the deal with Zimmerman was? Yet Martin did not make contact with Zimmerman. Martin walked away and Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and according to his 911 call, he chased Martin. That means that Zimmerman was the aggressor and he did force contact with Martin. At that point, Martin had every right to defend himself from Zimmerman.

Zimmerman is not a jewish name it is a German name for the information of the anti-semitic muslim. Many Jews have both German and Russian names from the long time they lived in those countries 500 years in fact. Being of German ancestory I know this he should learn it before his kind shoot some German because they can't tell the difference.

Really, Nibor? And how is the victim going to testify before the grand jury. No court can know what really went on, because it's he said vs. he said, and one of those parties is now dead from a bullet from the first person's gun.

Dead kid, smoking gun; there is no doubt, because there is never an excuse to kill a child. There are always other options, and the fact that you are too lazy to come up with an excuse to not murder a person would make me horrified to have you as a neighbour.

Anyone who cannot think of a way to deal with an unarmed 17 year old child other than killing him doesn't belong in civilized society. Besides, even White Latinos in Florida have a reputation for racism, so all you people arguing whether he's White or Latino are completely missing the point.

Zimmerman even violated his neighborhood watch training. No leg to stand on here.

Few people who have not received the best law enforcement training available will ever meet that bar

Which law enforcement are you referring too?

Racism or not, this is plain and simply a murder. The shooter was advised by the 911 dispatcher to stop following the 17 year old and when he finally exited the vehicle HIS actions escallated the situation. "Stand Your Ground" laws allow you to use lethal force if confronted with a real threat to life or body any place you have a legal right to be. They do not allow you to track/stalk anyone then shoot them because you cause a confrontation. Even self defense instructors recommend fleeing a potentially lethal situation BEFORE drawing a weapon to shoot.

All this over a bag of chips or Skittles or whatever. The shooter needs a very long time in prison.

In this case, the "Stand Your Ground" doctrine DOES NOT apply.

Few people that do recieve such training, are later found to be unfit to carry in the first place... so you want only the gang of police to have guns? not in my America

Zimmerman even violated his neighborhood watch training. No leg to stand on here.

Put him in jail and let the brothers give him some vigilant-y-ing.

LG-267159 ~~ It sounds that way to me too. This 'Captain' of the Neighborhood Watch, is a complete idiot, and was out hoping for some kind of confrontation, so he could use his gun, and feel like an important person.

The news reported that he has called police over 47-times since January. He's over zealous, and trigger happy. What Zimmerman should have done, is waited for police, stayed in his vehicle, and spoke to the teen from his open window, identify himself as the Neighborhood Watch Captain, and ask if the teen lived in this area. It seems very simple to me. As a result of Zimmerman's poor judgment, and delusions of grandeur, this teens family and friends are now mourning a death that should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED. In addition, Zimmerman has ruined his life as well.

How does one get bleeding from the back of the head?

Grass stains and blood on the back of the jacket?

And a bloody nose?

Witnesses that saw gentle young Trayvon sitting on top of Zimmerman pounding away, and Zimmerman crying out for help?

If I'm in that circumstance, and if I'm carrying, I will also be using.

When you chase and tackle a person you get grass stains and a bloody nose, it happened to me. Tell me if a stranger followed you and tackled you, would you fight back?

911 tapes have the operator tell Zimmerman NOT TO FOLLOW, later Zimmerman tells the operator the suspect is running. Zimmerman followed and chased Travon, this alone eliminates "Stand Your Ground". I want to know if both were standing when Trayvon was shot, what the distance was and other than walking in the neighborhood what crime did Zimmerman think occurred?

freedman1

How does one get bleeding from the back of the head?

Grass stains and blood on the back of the jacket?

And a bloody nose?

Witnesses that saw gentle young Trayvon sitting on top of Zimmerman pounding away, and Zimmerman crying out for help?

Hard to believe that 250 lb Zimmerman would be on the ground with a gun while a skinny 150 lb kid is on top pounding away. I heard reports where Zimmerman is the one that chased that kid and tackled the kid to the ground. That would explain the grass stains and possible bloody nose for being too aggressive.

It's called "losing" Freedman. Happens to supremacists more than you'd think. Mostly because they believe they're superior to their targets when nobody told the targets themselves that.

I believe the supremacist who made the national news for getting himself knocked out a while back in a bar by a black guy he was harassing in front of witnesses who happened to be a semi-pro boxer was screaming and bleeding when the cops got him on his feet too. And also claiming he was attacked. Doesn't make it so. Which is why he went to jail while the guy who won went home and watched his own story on TV.

Freedman- How would you react if you were walking home from the store in an unfamiliar neighborhood in the dark and you became aware that someone was following you in a vehicle? You try to run away from them and think you lost them, but then, they appear and begin running after you on foot. I don't know about you but, as a 5'2" 125lb women, I would feel threatened. If that person made physical contact with me, I might very well believe I was fighting for my life.

Had Enough

Hard to believe that 250 lb Zimmerman would be on the ground with a gun while a skinny 150 lb kid is on top pounding away

I also find it hard to believe that 250 lb zimmerman could chase down and tackle a 150 lb young adult. (call it what it is) If you get to 250 lbs try to run down a smaller, more physicaly fit individual, probably in the best shape he will ever be (or would have ever been) who is also running for his life. The point is that all facts and evidence are not available to the general public, and for news agencies to make incomplete reports to play on the population's emotions is irresponsible. Rise above the lynch mob mentality

Ever been tackled by a 17 year old HS football player. That might be you bmilleroth but when on the ground this 5'6" woman kicked up and lifted 2 full grown people one of whom weighed 230 lbs completely off the ground and permanently disabled the 230lb male. Fear does interesting things to people. Just saying.

Absolutely. It's a very common bias among Hispanics to be prejudice against blacks. I don't understand how everyone keeps saying, "Oh, he's Mexican, he can't be racist", either. Even if he had only one parent who was Mexican (like me), you hear it within the family. My husband is also half-Hispanic (Puerto Rican) and his mom and her family DESPISE blacks.

Mexicans seem to hate everyone who isn't mexican. I am so over them bringing their hate thinking into our country. Ive lived in Mexico and have endured their racist and violent tendencies towards minority groups both in the US and Mexico. I am a very liberal democrat, but I am all for sending their asses back across the border until they learn some respect and appreciation. LOCK HIM UP!

not JUST a white man's disease... it effects many nationalities

You mean like black?

"Black"is not a nationality, it is a color. A color in which human beings do not come. Same goes for white.

I remember a teacher at a local school here in AL years ago who was from India. I found out by accident one day that she hated the black boys in her class and thought teaching them was a waste of time. She commented to me after school one day that, "You know how those little black boys are. They just can't learn and they just need to be in fields somewhere or where they can do some good". I thought that was just weird since her skin was as dark as theirs...I mean really, it made less sense than the no sense it would have made if she were light-skinned. She felt Indian dark skin was fine but dark-skinned Americans were inferior. It was bad enough that she got fired even in AL in the 80s...lol.

Heck, racism and bigotry comes in all flavors. Really they do.

I have a latina friend who told me that some hispanics simply HATE Africans Americans. They are taught that and even when they come to America, they bring it with them. When I first experienced it, I was shocked. Now I'm use to it. So it is VERY possible for a hispanic to be racist against an African American.

anyone can be racist......its not just whites!! I grew up with many people from the hispanic culture and like with any group some are haters and some are not. Unless you know this man personally we have no way of knowing if he was prejudice or just a taking his job way too seriously. It was nothing more him being a vigilante as soon as he started following Trayvon( a young man, he was not a kid). He should have followed the instructions he was given by the dispatcher. As for the size difference.... .. My 120 pound friend could wrestle her 170 lb boyfriend and then throw him over her shoulder and toss him on the bed. The unfortunate thing is there were no witnesses.....do we even know for sure who was yelling for help. From what little I heard on the news when they ran some of the 911 call. You really couldnt tell who it was....

ally, say it ain't so! You mean other people can be racist not just the white guy anymore. I don't know about that I'll have to call, Al and Jessie to make sure. Damn who would have known! Now I have to go back and rewrite all my stuff, I could have sworn it was whitey's fault.

All of this will come to a head and if it is found to be a good call by law enforcement then be it as it may. However, I can understand the parents wanting a full investigation in the death of their son, I mean what parent wouldn't. Just wish they would put up a recent pic. of trayvon so the jury doesn't think they are trying to sway this case with public opinion.

Could be bad on the case with all the publication as well, remember Casey Anthony's case. All of the publicity went bad on the jury selection.

Yes, that "racist" term does get thrown around quite a bit, when in reality...the act of hurling insults and derogatory downgrading of fellow humans...reveals just how lowly and infantile the abuser is about his or her own self-abhorrence.

Actually he is more likely Cuban since it is Florida. The prejudice on this blog on the liberal side accompanied with the lack of knowledge of demographics and ethnicities is truely amazing.

The DOJ has jurusdiction to determine if any civil rights were violated nothing else.

Of course civil rights were violated. A child was shot walking down the street in his own neighborhood because he was black. Zimmerman says he was "suspicious." Really? How? How? In what other way was he "suspicous" except that he was black? The man chased him, fought him, and shot him because he was black. Not even Zimmerman has offered any other reason.

“The media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be out-raged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.” Robert Zimmerman, George's father

freedman1, I wish you would shut up and actually read the story. First of all the boys dad lived in the neighborhood, he was just walking back to the house from the store. Secondly, Zimmerman was in his car when he first called. Why did he get out?If you listen to the tapes, the 911 operator asks Zimmerman if he is following the kid. He admitted yes (you can hear him chasing the kid), they responded "we dont need you to do that," which he ignored. If I was the boy and a strange grown man is chasing me down the street, I would try to fight him off also. Freedman1, how do you even try to justify that a teen walking to the store to get candy, getting followed by a strange man and most likely attacked by the strange man (who would start a fight with skittles and iced tea in their hands?) as deserving to die.? You are just an idiot

I guess according to Freedman1, its ok to patrol around your neighborhood with a 9mm handgun and pretend to be a cop. If they are black and is seen inside a gated community, then there is no way in hell they belong. I guess its ok to drive around and follow kids around. Jump out of the car and start chasing minors and yelling at them while tackling them to the ground is ok. After all, he is a captain of the neighborhood watch and he is above the law.

The inmates are running the institution in Florida. Bubba (or, Bubbito) can shoot, and kill you, my friend, and claim "self defence"?! If no one sees it, the locals are not going to ask many questions, it looks like. The guy got away with murdering YOU! Feel safe, now??

The whole state of Florida is a nut basket! There is one simple truth, in this--GUNS DO NOT MAKE YOU SAFER!! NRA, you're as nutty as a fruit cake! The countries with the strictest gun laws have the fewest gun deaths. Period!

We're awash in guns, and state laws let you murder anyone you feel like, so long as you claim "self defense", and no witnesses were present. Lunacy!!!

Even a police officier is put on leave when he shoots someone in the line of duty.Big failure on the police dept. crucial evidence lost,no drug test or alcohol test on Zimmerman.Did he go to the hospital,because he claimed a concussion. Were pictures taken of his injuries,all crucial evidence. What about the gun who's fingerprints were on the gun. How about burns on the wound and powder burns on his hands? Were there injuries of self defense on Trayvon. I'm sure that child was fighting for his life. It's really sad the public has to do the police work,big big failure.There was no self defense on Zimmerman's part,only Trayvon. Even if Trayvon had ran like his girlfriend told him,I believe he would have shot in the back. He pursued this child,and nothing was going to stop him. How sad this beautiful child was murdered in cold blood. J-MAL

@Big Ed - every home in Switzerland has a state-issued rifle & at least one person who has been or is currently a member of the national militia. I think that constitutes their nation being "awash in guns" yet there's little gun-related violence.

If we allow the justice system to work this out we'll get all the facts needed to assess what actually happened that night. Anybody condemning GZ right now is guilty of the same tactics & pre-judgments that caused this whole situation to explode out of control that night. There are way too many assumptions being used to justify comments here. Even the 911 calls don't paint a clear enough picture to adequately determine exactly what happened.

Just because almost half-a-million Facebook users think GZ should be arrested doesn't mean that's the proper course of action right now. Patience & civility are what's needed most in order to get to the bottom of this.

doughsellz; "If we allow the justice system to work this out we'll get all the facts". Too late for that, the justice system (police) didn't do their job.

black person

Especially when he says on the call "...they always get away..."

As if not this time.

There are enhanced recordings of the call by this vigilante where it appears he utters the pejorative "coon"

You mean enhanced like in improved?

Well since the PC police think the creek named coon creeks is racist I trust them not at all.

I have no idea what your point is. However, you might consider that the police would have no problem in pursuing and arresting somebody for murder in most circumstances - which is the point here. Why does this clown get a pass from the cops?

Black on black... black on white... black on yellow, black on anything... but that's because they are so picked on in our society... That is why their criminal numbers are so high... they are disadvantaged and we owe them because of their past role as slaves... (Role your eyes)

But regardless of whether this guy is a creep or the kid was a creep... when ever there is a black that gets killed or beat up let's turn it into a race thing. What BS

Please O'really get the races right we the White guys and gals do not want to be targeted if this case goes wrong.

Once again, people don't think anything through, they just pander to extremist voters.

A little like what the Obama supporters are thinking about now.

Uh, RW? She didn't.

And I hate to break it to you Nibor, but Obama is a centrist. The republicans have just moved so far to the extreme right that anything left of Joseph Goebbels is considered pinko commie.

Wasn't extremist voters at all- it was special interest group #3 in the USA: THE NRA. #1 is the teachers unions, that's why US education sucks it so hard with a 25% graduation rate, #2 is the minority pandering Dems/libtards buying minority/poor votes with promises (and delivery!) of more freebies. #4 is the rich/big business allowing all decent jobs to leave here. Now you need a master's degree to earn $38,000, no more "regular jobs". USA is firmly in the grip of these fab four, no doubt about it.

And I hate to break it to you Nibor, but Obama is a centrist.

Ah Toasty, you have such a keen sense of humor. No connection to reality but humorous none the less.

I was just going off of the facts, Nibor. The President is one of the most centrist politicians out there, despite what the teabaggers insist on saying.

And I'm sorry to tell you this Chris, but the NRA is definitely extremist. The things they support and their past actions are truly unconscionable.

this is a crazy disgusting story....yes in FLORIDA you find this kind of hideous corruption...esp orlando i know b/c i live in that city and its just bad... the teen boy looks like some innocent nice kid, and the hispanic looks like a freaking predator...even if someone kills anomther in self defense...they get ARRESTED or INVESTIGATED...this is crazy....what has happened... this was a crime of RACISM AND PREJUDICE or if anything an act of CHILD VIOLENCE....how the hell is this mosnter walking around free?? is the corrupt crappy sanford anything doing anything abotu this??? Neighborhood watch my a**....those people those scumbag a**holes in florida who are neighborhood watch people are criminals themselves and low lifes.... that whole city is full of low lifes...that's why they allow this bigot to get away with a racially motivated and child violence motivated act....keep on protesting people....something NEEDS to be done about what happened here....

just because he's hispanic he's not racist...err what???? MINORITIES can be more 'racist towards black people' than non minorities and there are racists in every race, and can be towards any other race....racism is not limited to just 'white people' on the contrary....give this innocent child some justice....this is despicable...

Toasty - I don't think it is extremist to have a law that states that law abiding citizens are allowed to defend themselves. Don't get me wrong - that is not at all what Zimmerman was doing. In my opinion, based on listening to the 911 tapes, Zimmerman was hell bent on killing this kid because he was black and in his neighborhood. This is just a misapplication of a good law which allows people to defend themselves. Or at least Zimmerman is trying to misapply it. I hope he does not succeed, and that he gets what he deserves, which is to be found guilty of murder, and to be sentenced accordingly.

"Pinko commie"? What decade are you living in, exactly? And should we be setting up those "Jap" camps around the country again, to keep those who might present an unhealthy religious/racial influences or physical danger away from "true" Americans? You know, like three-year-old boys in wheelchairs confronted by TSA... great Republican idea that turned out to be...

Speaking of which, why am I not surprised that this piece of nonsense legislature was drafted by two Republicans--former Sen. Durell Peaden and current state Rep. Dennis Baxley?

SUJO, really you mean the very same tsa that Obama has left standing? How is the patriot act working out for ya, you know the one Mr. Obama said was unconstitutional yet it is still standing. Just maybe if that isn't enough for you, you can add the new NDAA law that's just been signed into law! I'm waiting for the thought police; to finally start arresting people for their thoughts.

How about all them bailouts he gave to the rich and yet the common man is still waiting on his help. I don't want to hear about it takes time BS. He should have been more concerned with getting people back to work instead of getting them free health care. He seems to be a respectable guy, but, a leader he is not! MOO.

The way things are being done it is almost like dictatorship than, democracy. The stand your ground law in itself is a good law, just maybe not so much in this case. We really don't know what happened and just because you armchair judges say so, don't make it so!

Hey Darrell; Obama gave all the bailouts to the rich? G.W. and Congress had nothing to do with it? Just your twisting of facts makes everything else you say nothing but BS.

Obama gave all the bailouts to the rich? G.W. and Congress had nothing to do with it?

What elected office did the President hold before his present one and how did he vote on TARP?

No Heather, this law has seen HUNDREDS of other crimes like this. "Self-defense" murders have absolutely SKYROCKETED as a result of this law. The only difference is that this one was just that more heinous and abhorrent. The law is very dangerous, and it's cost us many lives to realize that.

Have you left yet?

I lived in Los Angeles 40 years (no longer, now I'm in FL and have a carry permit!) I learned you can get killed by illegal aliens anytime, anyday. Drunk drivers, gangs. Go check it out. That's why most of FL (except some small parts of Miami) White people are safe.

Are you serious?

When it's you time go, it doesn't matter how many guns you have or where you live!

You most likely will be killed by you own race!

Since you are from LA you should know this, blacks kills blacks more then whites kill blacks and visa-versa!

Heather, IMHO nobody should be allowed to "carry" as a civilian. There is no excuse for any citizen to be armed. Period. As guns are confiscated, melt them down. No more citizen guns! No more criminal's guns. Then, when a few hundred million guns are gone, disarm the police. Police were not armed here, or in England for much of our history. They are armed as much as they are, around the world, because American crime is everywhere. Too many people (trained, or not, especially in US have a tendency to get all"holier than everybody else"), and want "blow away" anybody who doesn't measure up to their standards.

Yeah, doing away with guns wouldn't do away with killing. But, I'd bet it would cut way down. Course I don't expect it, it makes way too much sense. What do we do when criminals smarten up and realize that killing their victim, before the victim can draw a gun, is the only sensible way to operate? The lunatics are running the institution!!

Big-ed, I'm glad you live in England and yes they don't carry over there. That's why you are holding to your royalty, this is something we do not want. Yes it does create some harry situations, but, the right to protect oneself is not debatable. thnx.

Besides how would we be able to cull the herds so to speak. You know the worlds population is quickly becoming unsustainable.

BigEd your opinion doesn't vote in my state from what you said I would say you are 1) liberal 2) northeast or California 3) so convinced of the rightness of your views that you want the people of rural Kansas to take the bus. I have lived in the space between the mountain ranges all my life and the bus seldom stops at the corner of corn and soy.

BigEd:

No thank you, I don't want to live under the rule of China North Korea, or any other totalitarian regime. Military dictatorships fear the possibility of the peasants being able to fight back.

Obviously another vote in favor of Planned Parenthood.

You are obviously a left-wing loon with the brains of a squirt gun.

I won't be waiting a half hour for the cops to find my house to try to catch a trespasser.

As soon as he tries to break in I will let him steal some lead.

Of course in this case Zimmerman should be getting to meet a firing squad not some lame "life with HBO" like you would prefer.

So you actually think there will always be a Cop around to keep you safe? What fantacy world do you live in? Just because a person believes in their Constitutional Rights doesn't make them a vigilante. There is nothing wrong with this law. People who think they should flee, you are ALL dead. Do you think a criminal WON'T shot you in the back if you try to run away?

Here in GA at Georgia Tech the students' right to carry was taken away. Now students are easy targets and criminals attack them almost daily. When you bleeding heart liberals find a way to eliminate ALL criminals THEN I'll consider giving up my firearms.

Lots of these people live in real gated communities where the cops do patrol. This is what big money can buy you, now in these neighborhoods if you're poor and in there can get you arrested. Yet some of these bozo's will get on here and talk about your right to walk anywhere. Try that in their neighborhood and see what happens.

Besides police can only come in too clean up unless he is living in your house at the time! When they come to clean up, I want it to be the perps crap he is cleaning up not mine.

It's not about race and the gun didn't kill this kid. The way media gets its big stories to try and make everyone believe in some big picture. The sad thing is that the young man who was killed and in the end it wont be about him. It will be a race issue. The coward who shot the kid should be punished regardless of whatever color or race that he is.

Family tradition!

the charges were dropped to find out the race of that officer!!!!!!

Seems there must be easier ways to find out the race of the officer.

Yeah, the officer was "White" and Zim cried racism, right>?

I did find information about Zimmerman being arrested in 2005 for battery against a law enforcement officer, but it made no mention of the race of the officer. Apparently it is his mug shot that is being used in the news articles. So this guy assaulted an officer in the past, chased down, shot and killed an unarmed 17 year old kid, and we're still not sure whether he can be arrested? What does it take? Does the murder have to occur in front of news cameras broadcasting nationwide?

Even then the scum would come out of the gutter in his defense and say the video footage is fake and a liberal spin put on it, and they have the nerve to say that there is no evidence that it was racially motivated even with Zimmerman on the 911 recording, himself admitting to pursuing the child and making a f****** ***ns racial slur as he exited his suv to confront the unarmed teen, even after police dispatcher told him not to follow..., does that even come close to self defense, or is that hunt down and kill!

If angry mobs use these same self defense tactics Will the Florida police have the same "hands off, no taking into custody or arrest" of known shooters in murder incidents..., especially if the shooters are minorities?

I do not believe that they would release the 911 tapes. If that is not inflammatory, I don't know what is. As for the case of the 5 boys lighting the 6th on fire, I have followed the news for the past month or so and heard nothing about this. Before any charges were filed, or even considered we heard all about this. The only part they left out was that Traynor was beating on Zimmerman.

When did Trevon ( the murdered teen ) beat on the killer? This would have been pointed out in the beginning. Since you have some inside information, please tell us where we can find this information. Zimmerman (the killer) should be in jail awaiting trail for mudering this young man. Why?

First he was told not to pursue the so called suspect.

Secondly, he (Zimmerman) had a 9mm gun.

Thirdly, he killed the so called suspect and then lied and stated that the young man had a weapon. The weapon turned out to be a bag of skittles and a tea. Wow a black child or person can't run to his home without caring food, because it may be mistaken as a weapon. Sad.

Heather did you also bother to look into the disposition of the case. Because arrested does not mean convicted. I was arrested I was never convicted the case was thrown out of court the next day. I have a mug shot, I have fingerprints on file but I was never convicted. Because I was never convicted I can if I want buy a gun,get a carry permit and carry it all over my state and many others. Full information not partial something every reporter in my day felt was his job and his duty. Todays reporters all belong working for the papers sold at the checkout stand at Wal-Mart

http://www.theledger.com/article/20120321/NEWS/120329844?p=3&tc=pg

Well, "reporter" - it is common knowlege that he only avoided conviction in his assault upon a police officer by agreeing to a pretrial program for first time offenders. Just because he can legally buy and carry does not mean he has the appropriate psyche to be a responsible gun owner.