E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Allauddin Khan / AP file
In this March 11, 2012, file photo, Afghan men stand next to blood stains and charred remains inside a home where witnesses say Afghans were killed by a U.S. soldier in Kandahar province.
Lawyers for Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, suspected of killing 16 Afghan civilians, will likely mount a two-pronged defense, military law experts say, attacking the evidence against him while also arguing that his reported combat injuries and mental trauma created diminished mental capacity.
Bales’ civilian attorney, John Henry Browne, has suggested such an approach in his public comments on the case, in which the Army has identified the soldier as the lone suspect in the March 11 attack but not yet charged him.
“There’s no forensic evidence, there’s no medical examiner’s evidence, there’s no evidence about how many alleged victims or where those remains are,” he told NBC Nightly News on Tuesday, adding that he intends to travel to Afghanistan to oversee his own investigation.
But he also stated that his client had “no memory” of the attack and suggested that could be from a concussive head injury. In comments to CBS News on Monday, he indicated he would make a "diminished capacity" argument rather than pursue an insanity defense.
Defense official: Staff Sgt. Robert Bales to face 16 counts in Afghanistan massacre
John Henry Browne, the attorney for U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, speaks about the long and emotional first face-to-face meeting with his client. NBC's John Yang reports.
Some military law experts interviewed by msnbc.com said they expect a legal pincer attack, in which the defense may try to win acquittal by attacking the evidence but have a fallback position aimed at winning a lesser sentence than the death penalty -- which Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has said could be sought in this case.
Military officials have said that after drinking at an Army outpost in southern Afghanistan on March 11, Bales, 38, crept away in the night to two nearby villages, where he shot his victims and set many of them on fire. At least nine of the 16 victims were children, they said.
Gary Solis, former head of the Marine Corps’ Military Law Branch and current adjunct professor of law at Georgetown Law School, said the fact that the crime occurred in a combat zone in a distant country complicates the task for prosecutors, who are expected to charge Bales with premeditated murder and other crimes.
Army Sgt. Robert Bales' lawyer questions evidence in Afghanistan killings
To convict Bales of that charge, prosecutors would have to prove that people died, the means by which they died, that the accused is the person who used those means and had premeditated the offense, Solis said.
That would be no easy feat, given the possibility of numerous crime scene complications, he said.
“The prosecution is under additional burden in that they’re trying a crime that happened … 9,000 miles away,” he said. “They have no bodies, they have no autopsies, they have no forensics, they have no photographs, they have no witnesses. There is no Afghan who is going to come here to testify against this guy, so how do they prove premeditation? It’s going to be a problem for them.”
Daniel Conway, a lawyer and former Marine staff sergeant who has been involved in battlefield investigations in Iraq and Afghanistan of alleged crimes by U.S. soldiers, said prosecuting Bales will be “exceptionally difficult.” Even establishing him as the gunman could be problematic, he said.
“It still remains to be seen whether any of these Afghan local nationals can actually identify Bales as the shooter,” he said. “Now there’s going to be some real linguistic divides here in terms of people’s … ability to communicate what they saw but you may very well have the potential down the road for a defense that he didn’t do it.”
The physical evidence from combat zone crimes is similarly suspect, Conway said.
Spc. Ryan Hallock / DVIDS via AP file
In this Aug. 23, 2011 Defense Video & Imagery Distribution System photo, Staff Sgt. Robert Bales participates in an exercise at the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, Calif.
“In these combat zone cases, you have crime scenes that are contaminated almost instantly … bodies are moved, forensic evidence is either contaminated or cleaned, there (are) typically no photographs that are taken of forensic value so you can’t necessarily go back and do a very thorough wound analysis,” he said, noting that it would be difficult to exhume the bodies if they have already been buried due to Islamic tradition.
“It’s not easy to separate the fact from the fiction in this kind of case,” he added.
If Bales’ case goes to trial, the defense will have an opportunity to react to the government’s case, because the Army presents first. That will enable his lawyers to decide whether to focus on attacking the evidence or arguing that Bales’ reported combat injuries and mental trauma from the battlefield created diminished mental capacity. Or, they may do both, Solis said.
“The government has to go first and it has to prove its case,” he said. “He’s going to be ready to take advantage of any chink in the government’s arguments that he perceives in addition to whatever argument he may have.”
Bales was on his fourth tour in a war zone since signing up for the Army after the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001. He had spent three years in Iraq on his previous tours, during which time he lost part of a foot and suffered a traumatic brain injury (TBI) due to a vehicle rollover, media reports say. Two days before he allegedly attacked the Afghan villagers, he saw the aftermath of a bombing in which a fellow soldier had his leg blown off, The Associated Press reported.
While an insanity defense remains possible, experts who spoke to msnbc.com note that winning such a case is extremely difficult in a military trial.
Unlike an insanity defense, where Bales would have to be shown not to have known right from wrong to be acquitted, diminished capacity is simply an argument that the crime was not premeditated and that mitigating factors should lessen his punishment.
“That’s very hard, so … he might have to go with this diminished capacity,” Greg Rinckey, a former attorney with the U.S. Army’s Judge Advocate General Corps who is now managing partner of military law firm Tully Rinckey PLLC, said of an insanity defense. “Most of the cases that I’ve tried, that’s what we’ve went with is because we couldn’t get to … the complete no mental responsibility or the capability to stand trial.”
Eugene R. Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School, said testimony indicating that Bales’ was afflicted by post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, could be introduced at this juncture, but would be unlikely to result in acquittal.
“Maybe some psychiatrist will say he suffers from PTSD,” he said. “That’s not a defense – probably. There’s no case in which PTSD has given rise to a successful insanity defense in the military.”
Solis said Bales’ lawyers would likely put the brain injury, the wounding of his comrade, the multiple deployments and his foot injury into the “diminished capacity argument box,” with the traumatic brain injury (TBI) possibly being a strong element in support of that claim.
Afghan massacre by US soldier puts focus back on brain testing
“You can get a doctor who will come in there with a chart and … show here’s a normal brain and here’s his brain getting TBI,” he said. “So the jury’s got something concrete … that they can wrap their not guilty finding around,” if that’s how they’re leaning.
Conway said doctors compare traumatic brain injury to a “hardware” problem, whereas PTSD is more like a “software” issue.
Solis, the former head of the Marines law branch, said the horrific nature of the crime could ironically benefit Bales’ defense.
“They’re going to say, ‘Would somebody in control of their facilities, somebody who didn’t have diminished capacity have done something this wacky?’” he said. “The act itself is inherently supportive of a diminished capacity” argument.
As a result, he said, Bales’ case might not even make it to a military courtroom. Perhaps a deal will be struck, or maybe mental health exams -– which could takes months -- will show that Bales is not competent to stand trial.
But Conway, the former Marine who has been involved in high-profile military crime cases, including the 2005 killing by U.S. Marines of 24 unarmed Iraqi men, women and children in Haditha, Iraq, said the defense also runs a risk by telegraphing that it intends to argue diminished capacity.
“It’s a two-edged sword. On the one hand, if they can prevent this from turning into a capital (death penalty) case, that’s a huge victory,” he said. “On the other hand, they’re giving away the playbook and they don’t have any access to the witnesses. So the government is going to be out talking to everybody trying to rebut the diminished capacity defense.”
At the same time, a defense built on PTSD and brain injury is generally a tough sell in a military courtroom, Conway said.
“We have used it many times” to get charges reduced, he said. “I can tell you that it’s hard to get a military jury to be sympathetic to these kinds of defenses because the way they look at it is, ‘I’ve had multiple deployments, I’ve had multiple concussive events … I’ve got family problems, and I didn’t go out and do this.’”
“So you’re going to have to be able to explain to the jury why this case is different from their own experiences in combat and that’s going to be tough to do.”
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
Leave a Comment:
I can hardly wait for those who suggest that Gitmo detainees should have American justice with all the bells and whistles to go through their mental contortions to show why Sgt. Bales should not.
I have no sympathy for the detainees. That said, Bales did a huge disservice to the Army, our country, and his comrade in arms. Did he think killing those children would avenge his friend? No, it's going to stoke the flames of hate and undo an untold amount of good work others have put in with their service. At worse, it's going to put more servicemen in danger.
Then there are those children that were brutally murdered. American, Afghans, Christians, Muslims...it doesn't matter. How would you feel if your child or younger sibling were murdered and burned?
I hold the Army partly at blame for allowing him to continue service, but at the same time I feel his life should be over. It's been a while since the story was released, but didn't this guy TURN HIMSELF IN? Whether or not he was in a right state of mind, he committed what I see as crimes against humanity.
I'm more interested in the lack of evidence for trial. I hadn't even thought of that. It court you have to "prove" your accusations with evidence and there isn't any. It is likely that if this was a civilian case with this lack of evidence it may not even go to trial as people have confessed to killings before but with no physical evidence to back it up they were released. But since this is so geopolitical the military and administration may feel compelled to try this case. I personally think he did this but that is different than having actual evidence to prove it.
amen to that.. here's a man the served 3 tours in iraq and then was sent to afganistan.. now I have missed the names sons and daughters of the politicans with a few exceptions..
Well for one thing, the people in Gitmo are civilians who have been locked up for years without any charges. Bales has been charged promptly and he's also military meaning he gets full military privilges and responsibities when it comes to his behavior.
Denver Bill - Even if you ignore the fact that most Gitmo prisoners have been found to have done nothing to deserve their imprisonment, there is still the fact WE went to THEIR country, arrested them, and shipped them over here for a mock 'trial'. Here we have someone who ADMITTED to killing 16 people, mostly women and children, and if we were actually the 'nation of laws' the politicians speak of, not only would we NOT be defending this guy, we would also hand this guy over to the country that he committed the atrocities in, and GTFO out of the country we don't really need to be occupying any longer.
Defending the indefensible.
just like the QUICK SWIFT JUSTICE for all the AMERICANS killed in iraq & afghanistan, or 911?.........i am NOT saying what this solider committed was right yet WE NEED TO LOOK @ his mental health first........how do you think you would be holding up after THREE TOURS of hell!?!?!................
Amen to that, Bro!
absolutely no excuse for murdering children! this coward should go after the enemy!
Well I for one hope that he doesn't get found guilty. No one knows for sure if he did it or not....as they stated, no bodies, no autopsies, to photographs no forensic evidence and no witnesses who can even say Bales was there and that he was the alleged shooter
The prosecution is under additional burden in that they’re trying a crime that happened … 9,000 miles away,” he said. “They have no bodies, they have no autopsies, they have no forensics, they have no photographs, they have no witnesses. There is no Afghan who is going to come here to testify against this guy, so how do they prove premeditation? It’s going to be a problem for them.”
“In these combat zone cases, you have crime scenes that are contaminated almost instantly … bodies are moved, forensic evidence is either contaminated or cleaned, there (are) typically no photographs that are taken of forensic value so you can’t necessarily go back and do a very thorough wound analysis,” he said, noting that it would be difficult to exhume the bodies if they have already been buried due to Islamic tradition.
Now I'm not saying you let someone (or a group) who would do this off and don't try to prosecute but given everything that is stated above how can they reasonably convict this guy given what little 'facts' there are in this case. The reason I say I hope he is found not guilty is I wouldn't want him offered as a 'sacrificial lamb' for the bloodlust of the Afghans for a crime that even officials say is hard to know if it actually happened.
mrsmaryd - Did all those women and children kill American soldiers or were they involved in 9/11? There is no excuse for what this guy did, he's no better than the people who blow themselves up in a crowded place.
@ RushISaPig
All I can say is go home and lock yourself in a closet.
To the others here that say what he did will affect the other soldiers there, because these people are going to want to get back at us. Well saying from experience 2 deployments being an 11B for the Army and a 6 month stay there for my current job, all these people understand are a few things. One their Quran is number one, two power, three fear. The Quran is full of writtings of the power and fear, read some of the articles of the aftermath talking to some of the villagers there and they said, the unit called out all the men in the village and told them Revenge is coming for the IED attack. Well after Bales supposedly walked his happy rear end by himself to the villages and killed these people, the men in the village said they didn't think it would happen, they didn't think the US military was going to get revenge on them like they supposedly told them. Well guess what, have you heard any news of major attacks, or engagements toward US forces out there, especially this FOB right next to the villages? NO. Why? Because they now have a sense that if they do something, maybe next time it won't be just one soldier it would be the whole unit coming to town, and they wouldn't be able to stop them. What has been done is now they are in fear that they may pay a price for attacks on us. That's how these people live, and this act yes horrible but it has made the locals stay in their homes and not try anything. I'm also willing to bet they won't allow our true enemies to come in there, because again they do not want the repercussions of an attack on that FOB.
The Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan were victims because they were invaders. People don't like being invaded by troops of another nation and particularly of another alien culture. Don't blame the natives for the deaths but the politicians in Washington who were responsible for the invasions.
Bales is a murderous coward who should be incarcerated for the rest of his life. There is no excuse for killing women and children. That said, he will probably get off lightly because the victims were non-Christian brown people!
Leak some documents, and you're a traitor who deserves to get the firing squad. Shoot up a bunch of civilians? Ah, he probably didn't do it. Love the standards of justice here.
Fighting for his life - so that he could next time hit his girlfriend or do a hit and run or swindle 1.6M from retirees or kill another 16 afghans?
If this had been a Afghani civilian who shot 16 soldiers I doubt there would be headlines as sympathetic as the headlines for this soldier. All those who defend him because he served multiple tours remember the Afghan and Iraqi people don't "get rotated out". They are are in the middle of it 24/7 365 days a year for the last 10 years. There's no getting rotated home because they are home. Maybe it's hard for us to understand since we don't have Russian or Chinese troops busting down our doors in the middle of the night. I can damn well bet that if the US people where being treated as the Afghan and Iraqi peoples have been, that we'd be up in arms literally.
Rushisapig...you are most likely a coward...typical of a keyboard warrior..you ever been in the thick of battle and shot at for months?
You are most likely a chicken hawk. Thousands of soldiers are in combat zones for months without murdering 16 civilians.
All I hope for is justice to be served. My issue isn't with whether or not he should be punished or treated via hospitalization...
What really troubles me is how fast this lawyer came to his "defense"... Smell of money perhaps?
He killed 16 people? Some were children? But if there is no evidence of who was killed and he has sketchy memories how do any of us know what is true? He doesn't even know for sure. I want to see the government prove this one. Should be interesting. Would you accept that kind of evidence in court in NYC?
Why aren't those of you who want "swift justice" for Sgt Bales making the same argument for the nutjob that shot up our own soldiers at Ft Hood?
As much as I hate to say this, they should turn him over to the Afghans and let THEM mete out justice. I dare say he would see far more justice there instead of here.
So... have you? And if so, would you go out and kill a bunch of children? You're comment makes no sense. I'm tired of hearing these ex military people saying "you ever been in the thick of battle and shot at for months?" NO i haven't, because I chose education over joining the military. It was your choice to join, just as it was Mr. Bales choice to join. You knew from the start it wasn't going to be easy, and if you didn't, well you're a f***ing idiot, and that does not excuse the fact that children were murdered because this guy lost it.
Hello folks, the more information that comes out the more suspect I am of the entire story. The media is in full on demonizing mode of this guy. Afghan villagers where the murders took place and President Karzai are saying that more than one soldier was involved. They are saying it was a dozen to twenty soldiers. I don't know what the real truth is. What I do know is that we were lied to about the Jessica Lynch rescue and the Pat Tillman killing. It probably will be some time before the entire story comes out but I hope it will be the truth.
The Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan were victims because they were invaders. People don't like being invaded by troops of another nation and particularly of another alien culture.
That says it all Ron. Most here know of your American and any other than Muslim relegion. Well by half of what you said above the invaders are also the Taliban and Al Qaeda as most of them are from foreign countries. But by your statement it is ok that they have attacked and killed hundreds of thousands residents of Afghanistan because they are muslim.(of the same culture) There is no proof that Sgt Bales did anything. For all I know he could of just got finished playing some BF3 and commented about that, if his admission is even true.
PJ where you there when he may have hit his girlfriend? All it takes is for a girl to say youu hit her(grilfriend or wife) and quess what your off to jail. I have seen it happen to someone even though I had video evidence that it did not and that she struck him. There is also no evidence that he lost or took anyones money and I think he was never found quilty of any hit and run. Where does it say he swindled 1.6 m from anyone? I lost some money in my 401k but is it the funds peoples fault? NO as I choose where to put my money, when I moved my $ to something safe then I actually earned.
You know what PJ I say you killed those villagers. Because I say it does it make it true?
Why aren't those of you demanding a fair and even treatment for Sgt Bales demanding a fair and even treatment for Pvt. Manning?
Staff Sgt. Bales obviously took leave of his senses and took out his frustrations on a nearby village. Unquestionably a horrific act. He simply had enough of the Afghan people. After the Afghan reaction to the accidental Koran burning, most Americans are also fed up with the Afghan people. War wears out a man's soul. The constant senseless death of the men around you tugs at your senses. Some very good men snap while others don't. We can't hold soldiers to standards of conduct that are not sustainable. In the case of Staff Sgt. Bales, he couldn't sustain his good conduct any longer. I feel for him. Our American society has much to learn from him. America, the US Military, and those that send men off to war over and again need to better understand when a soldier is at his limit psychologically.
I'm sure Staff Sgt. Bales feels badly about his horrific actions. He probably wishes that he had help to deal with all his battlefield grief. America and the US Army lost a good man in Staff Sgt. Bates long before this horrific incident. Not all men lost in war come back in wooden boxes.
Lets see, this was his fourth tour. He lost part of his foot during one tour, and and some brain trauma done during a vehicle rollover in another.
Why wasn't he discharged for his injuries? Why wasn't he sent home for some time off?
There's no evidence to convict him.
The armed services deals with justice differently.
Having said that, there's one parallel that I can draw between both: soldier or civilian, you're responsible for what you do as an adult.
Did repeated service, wounding and grief cause this soldier to snap? We'll have to see.
But consider: would similar actions be just defense for a civilian? If a man murdered a family--children included--due to pressure in his life he couldn't deal with, where would the blame belong? How would public opinion judge him?
We need better litmus tests for our soldiers, and better ways to determine if someone is nearing the breaking point. All that is true.
But each man and woman in uniform--as with each man and woman in civvies--needs to be responsible and accountable for their own actions.
In Nam how many children were used to kill U.S. soldiers. 3yo kids walking up to a jeep with a handgenade. Just because your a kid or women and supposedly civilian doesn't mean hardly anything. How many U.S. soldiers have been killed by kids and women blowing themselves up. You do not know. Let the jury do their job.
If he really wants to beat the rap he should hire a lawyer like Johnny Cochran.
As far as forensic science goes, the Afghanis have spent the last 1400 years thinking the Koran was the all knowing encyclopedia of universal knowledge. They pay the price for their monolithic delusion. They appear as backward as the path that led them there.
I think it's better for everybody involved, and for the sake of history if we remain brutally honest, and tell the narrative in the context of posterity.
This trial needs to expose the basis for going to war, 911 and the terror training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the impetus that indoctrinated the attackers in the first place, Islam. What verses turned these men into killers? It's not hard to find them, let's bring it to a public forum.
Then we need to look at the impetus that led Seargent Bales to abandon his humanity and kill innocent civilians. Prior to the massacre he was not one inclined to do such an act, but he clearly let down his guard.
Speak honestly Seargent Bales, this is not about you, it's about an historic act. Even insanity can be motivated by clarity of thought. You and your soldiers were expected to play by rules for 4 deployments and left as target practice for the Taliban that operated among a complicite civilian population.
Your friend and colleague had his leg blown off in an unecessary attack by the local insurgents. You saw the gore of the mortal wound of a man who was close to you. Did his religiously inspired tragedy make the last page of the local news? Probably not.
This case should be open book, starting with the Koran and Hadith and the motives of the people that belligerently attacked civilians, monumental architecture, civilian aircraft and started this dirty little war. We need to look at the motives of dirty tactics of afghan insurgents and what still inspires them to continue the attacks indefinetly.
Why was Seargent Bales and his men left in harms way.
Let's bring it all out into the open!
T.Bill
Could not have said it any better myself.
The stress level of a combat soldier is off the chart !! In a gorilla war you don't know who is who . You soon learn to trust no one . Than after 4 deployments, plus being wounded your self during one of your deployments makes for a pretty Heddie brew. Over stress leads to over reaction, which leads to mental breakdown. A human can take only so much before they reach their breaking point. All individuals have a different breaking point . This poor guy reached his and lost it. Odds are he will never recover from that breakdown. What a waist of a good solider. Notice our government doesn't tell us how many of our troops are out there on the razors edge !! He is not alone my friends, there are more out there ready to flip out at any given moment in time. All it will take is just the wright spark . What we have put our troops through for so long a time is a CRIME .
bob
combat injuries and mental trauma created diminished mental capacity.!!!!!!!!!!if he was a Muslim... Automatically the title of the news would be called: Another terrorist Muslim attack and killed 12 civilians innocent people in the name of Islam.
I dont see any of that here on the news..
they will never say.. this Christian terrorist decent did it in the name of Jesus or the Bible!! but when it comes to Islam.. we have to accuse and humiliate the religion before the accuser!
He killed almost a whole village but we are still convinced that he was not him self when he did it.... I wonder how much those lawyers are getting to make his case look good and justified?!?!
Come to think of this, given the 600,000 babies made in Vietnam by our GI's I wonder how many they killed of the regular Viet people, I mean I have had several in employment if they were engineers, and some of them had some very severe problems, and they as usual got little help, two of my employees killed themselves 30-40 years later, so there is a horrific problem with post war depression!--But killing civilians in any country "creates Jobs" for home made terrorists, as we have seen for years now while the west is hunting Muslims both in their own countries, and our western countries!!
Maxeemas,
Please post the video and photographic evidence you have against this soldier. Also, please give a list of eye witnesses and/or DNA evidence linking this soldier to the crimes.
Were the crime scenes preserved and photographed immediately after the crimes?
You want to execute a person based on a simple confession. I can list dozens of "confessions" from innocent people.
First and foremost, we have no idea what happened over there. All we know is what the government and journalists want us to know. There was an article that stated that the helicopters saw SSGt Bales unconcious and not moving in a field for an hour before he came to base and "turned himself in". Also the Afghani people still hold strong that there was more than one soldier involved in the killing. Maybe SSGt Bales was left to take the blame. We will never know what happened over there, even if he goes to trial. Another rising question, is that all of the men in the village with the exception of a handfull were not in the village at 3AM. Where were they?? They didn't come back until after the "massacre" happened. Seems very coincidental that the men all left for the time period of the massacre.
While I do not condone killing children in any light, there are questions here that need to be answered before I will throw this soldier under the bus. Innocent until proven guilty folks, that is what our justice system is all about, but instead you have all decided on his guilt because of what you read in articles. Because the media has never lied or withheld information before, right?
I personally think something else is up and that he has become the military patsy.
winning hearts and minds in afghanistan - by not holding this guy accountable for killing 16 civilians.
grabbing some popcorn, this should go well.
Great post Marinecorewife!
So many people calling for him to be executed because they read an article on MSNBC.
I agree with MarineCorp Wife, I want more info before making a rash (and anti-military) judgement. I also want to know more about this tramatic brain injury suffered in Iraq. Being cleared medically in some hospital then thrown back in the meat grinder! Really? They sent him back because his trigger finger still worked. If anyone is to blame, which of course still questionable, its the Army.
MarineCorpWife
Well Said
WHy do all these sheep keep referring to these supposed people that were killed innocent? The only proof of any killings is made by some afghan man that was not even there. Like you said how convenient that all the men were not in the village. Or were they and they were the ones that did the killings. Anyhing at this point is possible.
I believe everyone is responsible for their own actions regardless of the reasons. If Afghani people are killing Americans then they are responsible for their actions. The reason we invaded was because of 9/11, in case some of you forgot. The Taliban, who were based in Afghanistan, harbored Al Qaeda and Bin Ladin in case you also forgot that part. We can understand their desire to fight, but please don't forget why we went there in the first place-some of you act like it is just because we are a bunch of bullies.
from britannica.com
Of course, I could never condone the intentional killing of innocent civilians, but I've talked to enough veterans of recent wars and even WWII to understand in a small way the difficulty that often comes in knowing who is who. Many have had PTSD. I seriously doubt very many people want to kill innocent people; in fact, I think some people have a hard enough time killing the enemy. Yet war is insane. This particular action of killing villagers and children, of course, was horrendous and inexcusable. I am not in any way attempting to excuse it or justify it in any way. I'm only saying that war is insane. The people who spoke to me were affected in various ways-though certainly none of them went on killing sprees.
The Iraq War was obviously a different circumstance from the Afghan War. Also, Bin Ladin is dead now, thanks to the orders of President Obama. Not being a soldier or knowing enough about the situation on the ground and only knowing what the media chooses to tell (I've heard both sides), I honestly don't feel confident saying what our military should or shouldn't do at this point.
Continuing my original theme, Sgt. Bates is also responsible for his actions, assuming they can be proven. Nowhere in the world should it be fair to condemn a person for actions that can't be proven, however; and I agree that that also goes for Gitmo detainees. Keep in mind that the issue of Gitmo is an entirely separate issue from this case, however. Also, Gitmo detainees do not have all the rights and priviledges of US citizens. If they are not citizens they do not have the rights and priviledges of citizens. I am completely against any form of torture, however. Anyway, even though this case involves an unthinkable crime, the case of Sgt. Bates should be tried like any other military case. Politics should not inter into this. Justice is supposed to be blind, after all. Are not unthinkable crimes tried the same as other crimes in civilian court? If he is guilty of this horrific crime, he should be forced to pay the penalty. If he cannot be found guilty, he should not be made a sacrifice because of politics. One caution, however. Those who are trying the case should use extra efforts-possibly by having outside objective observers-to make sure the trial is as fair and unbiased to BOTH sides as possible.
Most of you already tried, convicted and lynched him in the Court of Public Opinion (NO FACTS, NO EVIDENCE, JUST A BUNCH OF EMOTIVE OPINIONS). His Lawyer should use the opinions as a means to get him aquitted as no more unbiased "Due Process", unbiased Investigations, unbiased Trial and unbiased Jury of his peers.
Any of you that do not believe that there is a problem with women, children as Combatants how about KONY 2012 (Lord's Resistance Army and the regions (northern Uganda, Democratic Republic of Congo, and South Sudan), unfortunately for some of us we got to see as UN Observers the Fundamentalist Islamic Government massacres at the Sudan (Darfur));how about the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK, also firsthand experience;Al Quada and Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban grabbing Afghan children as new inductees, and we attempt to get the kidnapped children back, the irony is that there are so many widows here after the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban massacred most of the men, with many of the current children being the products of rape by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban of the suspected Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers.
You think this child mentioned below is the exception, try again:
Inside Al Quada
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/inside-al-qaeda.html
Stop using minority Western Standards for the Majority of the World.
Maxeemas,
This is about the 109 Suras of the 114 Suras of the Holy Koran (Quran) that Calls All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. And the Death Penalty for any Islamic Believer that does not participate as enforced here (Afghanistan) by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban.
As soon as you applied your limiting Western term of "Religion" to Islam that is proof that you lack information or experience of Islam.
As it is the Majority 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide that determine what Islam is or is not; NOT the minority 1.7 Million Islamic Believers living at the US.
By the way bob1/28 it is Guerrilla Warfare NOT Gorilla, it would be very easy for us if it was Gorilla, then the enemy would have fur. The Politically Correct term is Asymmetric Warfare, as we were told not to use the term "Special" (some said this refers the the mentally handicapped, as in Special Oylmpics). Historically, Conventional Warfare loses against Asymmetric Warfare.
That is wrong on so many levels. You think that the Afghans like living this way instead of what they had before, after the US built up Afghanistan as a 20th Century US Ally "Little America" during the 1950s till the 1979 USSR 40th Army Occupation. It is the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization Al Quada, Fundamentalist Islamic Pakistanis Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Army of Islam Pakistan, Fundamentalist Islamic Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc. all supported by the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran that want the Afghans to return to Fundamentalist Islam, as to why after the US abandoned Afghanistan after the defeat of the USSR, they massacred all the 20,000 to 50,000 US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen and almost half the population (millions) as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, then they destroyed everything "Western", "Modern", "Non Islamic", with the lights literally going out at Afghanistan after they destroyed the Electric Power Stations. There were also the purges (murders) of the Unbelievers starting with the dynamiting of the Great Buddhas. Basically, if you were not a Fundamentalist Islamic Believer and did not support Fundamentalist Islam you were either dead or did not belong at Afghanistan according to the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban as supported by USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran. Most people do not even know the who, what, were, why, when, how, etc. of the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban as they were not here (Afghanistan) when they started to take over; there is a reason why they do not speak native level Pashtun, Dari, or Arabic and do speak fluent native Farsi. The other critical error is to believe that Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Yemen, Libya, Bahrain, etc. are all mutually exclusive events (as to why there is some overflow of related events (future motives)):
Afghanistan
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/12/10658053-afghanistan
Iraq
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq
Iran 2009 to 2012, Staits of Hormuz
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-strait-of-hormuz
There are many reasons that the average Afghan cannot do anything, legally by Fundamentalist Islamic Laws enforced by the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban it is the DeathPenalty to Collaborate with the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, the average Afghan cannot fight back against the Well Armed Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists due to Anti Gun Laws, the Fundamentalist Islamic Laws demand that the Afghans support the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists with everything they have or it is taken by force as Mandatory Islamic Tithes, peer pressure as created by the Imams at the Mosques, Imams placing names on Worldwide Death Penalty Fatawas to be carried out by any Islamic Believer, etc..
In less than 2 months most of us "Middle East" Qualified US Military Asymmetric Warfare will finally go back on Retirement again, NEVER to be Recalled to Active Duty again and again and again as "Too Old", as many of us have been involved with the Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc. since the 1980s. No more years of consecutive tours living with the locals. Our replacements were never trained due to previous Reduction In Forces (RIFs) of the US Military, it takes over 10.5 years to train us (not including language(s), culture(s), specific terrain (jungle, desert, mountain, arctic/winter, etc.), as needed based on Area(s) of Operation).
US Military Conventional Warfare Force leave 2014 if not extended again like before.
US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces leave decades after 2014.
By the way by releasing his name, family's name, relatives, friends, etc. you have basically also put them on the life long Death Penalty Fatawa lists for Revenge Killings to be carried out by any Islamic Believer. I do not believe that they will be in protective custody for the rest of their lives. This is just like the Revenge Killings at France, the previous French Military Special Forces that were located to the south of us. With the French now having to rethink their investigations, as it is common to let one person gain the Islamic Fame or Western Infamy so that the murder investigations stop.
You can bet the Afghans will come up with all the evidence they need. If we get out now though the taliban will have control long before this even gets to trial.
jabber,jabber jabber...blah-blah-blah. Most on here are talking out their backside. I love how lefties want to crucify this guy and hold candlelight vigils for serial killers! You people are completely nuts! The Taliban have killed many children, even little girls...just for going to SCHOOL! THey are a bunch of goat humping savages and always will be. FOr any of you to have sympathy for them is insane. Do us all a favor and take your next vacation somewhere in the middle east...
If that picture is evidence for one of the burnt bodies, there is ZERO way for a body to burn like that in a few hours. The heat would have burnt/scorched the walls and ceiling too. The inside of that room would have looked like an oven and the smell would be horrendous. The people seem unphased in the photo.
Where were all the men at 3am also???? Out at the local strip club????
Staff Sergeant (for now) Bales is going to be tried by the MILITARY JUSTICE SYSTEM, so if you wish for Gitmo. detainees to have the SAME "American Justice with all the bells and whistles" as S. Sgt Bales, I'm with you, since I've believed they've needed military tribunals at Gitmo since the detainees arrived there, in many cases over a decade ago.
If there's any legitimate complaint to be made about Gitmo detainees, it's that they've been denied due process in anything close to a timely manner. I think that's due to the fear of an Islamist backlash when many of them receive the Capital punishment that they deserve !!
The government is going to do everything that it can to make sure that Bales will not pay for the crimes he committed in Afganistan. Don't think, however, that this is going to go unnoticed by the rest of the world. And the next time a terrorist attack occurs on American soil, and so called innocent people are killed, don't ask yourselves why the rest of the world hates the U.S., just remember bull@!$%# like this.
"so called innocent people" in a post with what amounts to a threat from "the rest of the world" ??
Sorry to disappoint you Kaci, but Sergeant Bales is going to face justice under the rules of the UCMJ, including the very real possibility of a death sentence. No way anyone in the military (other than possibly a military appointed defense lawyer) or government will work to prevent him from facing the music, and that means he is far more likely to be convicted than freed. Once he is convicted, does that mean we no longer have to face the fear that "the rest of the world hates the U.S." ??
Did nearly 3000 "so called innocent people" deserve to die September 11th, 2001 when the U.S. was involved in NO active conflicts in the Middle East, less than two years after President Clinton had made the most comprehensive effort to that time to broker peace between the Israelis and Palestinians (an effort rejected by Yasser Arafat in favor of more war !!), the supposed source of most of the tension that's not between Muslims in the region ?? I don't think so, nor do I believe that any victims of violent crimes or terror attacks are "so called innocent people" !!
There is NO JUSTIFICATION EVER for the taking of innocent lives, which is why the majority of Service Members involved in incidents where innocents are killed carry lifetime scars from those incidents with them.
Staff Sergeant Bales is DONE as a member of the U.S. Military, no matter what the outcome of the military criminal proceedings. He should spend the rest of his life in custody, whether that is a prison or mental institution is up to those who decide this case, but there is NO WAY a person who SLAUGHTERS 16 INNOCENT PEOPLE should ever be allowed back in society (if it is proven he committed these heinous crimes).
No memory of the attack? I am so sure.
Bob, thanks for agreeing with me. Luckily, this burned out warrior will get a trial by a jury of his peers, i. e., the judges will have relevant military experience. UCMJ is not bound by the media, or what some soccer mom feels, or the influence of the Commander-in-Chief, or even how the people in Afghanistan feel. Obviously, Staff Sgt. Bales is guilty of something. He went AWOL, returned, and said, "I did it". He didn't elaborate as far as we know.
The US Army may bring a list of charges against him, but many will be thrown out for lack of evidence. The military court will likely find him guilty of being AWOL and some lesser offences and he will get the maximum penalty for those offenses. There will be no media spectical, no weeping Afghans in the courtroom, and justice will be given to this burned out soldier. A man's character matters when he goes before such a tribunal.
I have a question, and I don't want it to be interpreted as rhetorical. If an Afgani soldier were stationed here in the US and he did the same thing to American civilians, would we try him for the crime here, or would Afganistan do it?
I feel for our soldiers, but I also feel for the innocent civilians he killed. I'm just trying to imagine how I'd feel and what I would want done if some Afghan soldier came into my home and shot all the women and children along with the men. It's awful...
How Staff Sgt. Bales' lawyers are fighting for his life
WHY?
March 1968 American Soldiers Massacred 100's of Un-Armed Vietnamese Villagers
at MY LIA, VIETNAM. The only thing that stopped the Massacre was a very brave
Helicopter Pilot. ALL repeat ALL of those Americans Walked Free, A Officer was pardoned by the President. NONE spent time in Leavenworth.
Cold Blooded MURDER of 100's & NO ONE had to ANSWER for those War Crimes. W T F Over ? How does THAT Happen ?
Will SSG Robert Bales Walk Free also ? He MURDERS 9 CHILDREN then WALKS FREE ?
SPW "Airborne"
Steve,
Do you have video of him committing the crimes? Any photos? Witnesses?
Of course he's going to walk free. There's no evidence to convict him.
SKEGEEACE: You still feel for this guy? there is something wrong with you? I think you have some serious problems that you still feel for this guy!!!!
Do you know the pain that every one of those people went through when he was putting bullets in to their body.. the pain they had to go through before their last second... I guess you dont know how it feels to be shot yet....US news will not put everything in details for you.. if they were to do that!! the world would get angry at US but he is one of ours and we still have to play diplomacy! but I dont feel anything for this guy! I would put a bullet in his head and end of story.
Maxeemas: 1000% on post. The "man" admitted to it. Period. He did not snap, he had it planned out. Why do I say this? Because if he snapped he would have murdered his fellow soldiers while they slept.
Turn him over to the country where he killed. Why did we bring him home. He is worthless.
Slightly,
So if one of your family members was executed by a police officer, because they made a confession to a police officer about a murder (as an example)........ you would be fine with it? You wouldn't want to know the details of how and why your family member confessed?
Sorry, there's really no solid details on this besides people jumping to conclusions and calling for this soldier to be executed.
People get trained before going to war.. no one is forcing you to kill or putting a gun in your head to kill..and if you have to kill.. you follow the rules of engagement.. you have a brain to think and make a decision.. and if you cannot take it any more! all you have to do is shoot a dog for fun.. so they know they you are starting to develope some mental problems..but you dont have to shoot a whole family to prove you are mentaly sick! you Sick Freak I hope you go to hell for the pain and agony you caused to this family
Perhaps you should contact the prosecutors Maxeemas seeing as how you have proof this soldier committed these crimes.
John : what do you want to prove? you have 12 innocent people killed by this guy and he said he did it.. what else in the hell do you want to know? if you feel for this guy and want to share some of his guilt! go ahead but please let s not try to make some type of justification for what he did! it s pure evil and evil should not be allow to exist here..he must be terminated the same way he terminated others! capiche?
John : get a life.. I feel sorry for people like you
Awesome, post the video or transcripts of his confession then. Oh, there is none.
I'm the crazy one because I am questioning the confession? How many "confessions" have police officers obtained that were coerced, forced, etc?
But I suppose all those people that "confessed" should be executed to.
Maxeemas So glad you have all the answers. Well how about this and how does this happen(see below)
There was an article that stated that the helicopters saw SSGt Bales unconcious and not moving in a field for an hour before he came to base and "turned himself in". Also the Afghani people still hold strong that there was more than one soldier involved in the killing. Maybe SSGt Bales was left to take the blame. We will never know what happened over there, even if he goes to trial. Another rising question, is that all of the men in the village with the exception of a handfull were not in the village at 3AM. Where were they??
The only proof they have is statements made by someone that was not even present at the time. Also who says Sgt. Bales confessed? The military, well we know they always tell the truth(search Pat Tillman) Another thing is who deemed thes village people innocent, do you think a child or women never killed or aided in a killing? I give up with people like you as it is a waste of time.
No evidence. No witnesses. No one checked his weapon and uniform for blood spatter (if he busted down a door to kill people that close, there would be traces of blood). No blood test or breathalizer to determine drugs or alcohol (sounds like he got roofied) No forensics. No bullets to match his weapon. It sounds like no one counted how many rounds he had remaining in his weapon (issued at least 120). Did he have all his rounds or were half of them gone? No footprints. The picture of the 'remains' from burning looked like it was done with an excellerant. The fire would have been extinguished before they completely burned like that. It takes a long time for a body to burn without somthing like gasoline.
You do not have to imagine any of that...how did you feel when the Towers went down.
Steve Wright-2380427,
Of course you did not even bother to read the 2010 article written by the Vietnamese Government praising the two former Viet Cong as heroes that were firing at the US Soldiers from a irrigation ditch next to My Lai.
FYI, in Asymmetric War it is very common to create the events leading to the enemy massacring "civilians". This Causes the Enemy's Conventional Warfare Military and their Nation's Civilians to: a. Demand Prosecutions, resulting in a demoralization of the enemy's Military., b. Loss of National Will to Continue the Fight. The "Right War" or "Just War" now becomes immoral and unjust (you can see this with all those posting here, saying "Invasion" instead of like US Congress and President Clinton stated "Liberation" of Iraq in US Law H.R.4655 aka Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011)., c. Increased Local support for your Cause(s)., d. Increased National support for your Cause(s)., e. Increased International support for your Cause(s).(the local, national are lead ins to international support as separated required actions), f. Increased Rules, Laws, Policies, Restrictions that will significantly defeat the ability of the Military to accomplish anything, resulting in more of that Military killed., g. etc..
Just a thought, isn't there those Date Rape Drugs that make people passout and forget everything (loss of short term memory)? Has anyone bothered to check (blood samples) or do those drugs dissipate too quickly?
To all of you: Let s not go far here.. from what we know..He did confess to the crime nor unless someone put a gun in to his head and made him confess which is not mentioned here!
He should be added to the terrorist list because he truely terrorised people s life.
Any question? I didnt think so!
hmmm TBI, 4th tour in a combat zone, previously wounded, and he saw a fellow brother get his leg blown up.. I think a dishonorable discharge is enough. this poor guy most likely know up from down anymore
Not so simple... the outcome of this case has implications on our ability to conduct business with other nations.
Tuck: That would be a good solution if it was your family that was murdered. With your conclusion,we should get rid of all the rules of war and give indemnification to all germans and SS soldiers killed during and after the Nuremberg trials. Sick! !
when someone goes berserk and kills what has been reported as 16 innocent people, most of which were children, a 'dishonorable discharge' is NOT enough.. i'm thinking more along the lines of a firing squad...
your excuse could just as easily be used for postal workers who go 'postal' (just fire the guy, right?) or students on killing sprees (just expel them from school, right?)...
if there was a soldier from another country, who had seen a lot of action, and was in the US, and he went berserk and killed 16 US citizens, including women and children, do you think the proper response would be that his only punishment would be to release him from his army with no benefits? I don't think so...
We are not at War with ourselves in the USA. We are at war ( I use that term loosley )with the Afganis. The Afganis are using their woman and children as weapons and decoys. Our soldier have no idea who the enemy is. Would an enemy comming to fight in the USA come across the same situation? Its not the same.
dishonorable discharge is too lenient, but firing squad is too extreme. i hope that they settle this before it goes to trial and he serves time in a mental institution.
Yes they would, you can bet every gun owner would be fighting back. And yes, women and children live in their villages, where do you expect them to live? The innocent women and children who were murdered in their sleep did nothing to deserve that, and Bales needs to be punished. This was premeditated and this guy is evil.
According to Bales himself, he took a few sips of some drink just before he lost control of himself and all the memories of what happened. There could be some substance in that drink besides plain alcohol. That, combined with a head trauma he had in the past, and emotionally disturbed state just because of being in combat zone, could have done it to him.
I agree that he needs time in a metal hospital. The nature of the crime and turning himself in clearly shows that not everything is working correctly "up there". And who broke this guy? The US Military. They ultimately are the ones responsible for not catching that this person had severe mental issues going on. He did try to remove himself from combat, they forced him on this 4th deployment.
There's no way you can justify murdering of 16 innocent civilians, We're suppose to be better than our enemies.
At this point we can 1, give him a slap on the wrist and send a message to the world yet again that we're hypocrites, and can go around murdering innocent lives without consequence or 2. punish the murderer to the fullest extent of the law.
Death penalty, Life without parole or some hefty term will satisfy me. No slap on the wrist, and definitely no acquittals like the hadiltha(sp?) killings.
"Quick swift justice...execute you pig" for your ignorance
With all due respect, why would you think he needs time in a mental hospital when you have not yet earned your psychology degree, obtained your license to practice and then examined him? If you aren't a licensed professional who has actually examined the man, I think your opinion on the matter is of questionable worth.
I think he might need to be under psychiatric care, but if the doctors make that call. In any event, if he is guilty he needs to be perminantly locked up at the very least.
Hal--one can think he needs time in a mental hospital because his attorney is already saying he might have diminished capacity--and time in a mental hospital, with professionals, would allow those professionals to determine if he is mentally fit to be tried or if there is substance to the idea that he has diminished capacity.
One is expressing one's opinion in this thread--that's what a comment thread is. If you don't want anything other than the opinions of professionals with full access to all available evidence, then this is probably not the location for you to get information, Hal.
To turn the comment back on you, why would you think he needs to be permanently locked up if he is guilty . . . "at the very least." You don't have access to any of the information other than what is in the media, do you?
@terik11
We are not at War with ourselves in the USA. We are at war ( I use that term loosley )with the Afganis. The Afganis are using their woman and children as weapons and decoys. Our soldier have no idea who the enemy is. Would an enemy comming to fight in the USA come across the same situation? Its not the same.
Are telling me that a 2-3 ft tall child could be mistaken as the enemy? WTF?
Ipkaaa please tell that to the military court convening at Ft Hood in June or July We would also like to see justice for our three citizens civilian killed there.
@BlueStarRepublic
Just saying, if you've paid any attention at all to the news lately, the LRA and Joseph Kony use child soldiers, and so do almost every other African/Middle Easter rebel regime, so a 2-3 ft tall child could indeed be an enemy. There have been many reports/photos of children with AKs and child snipers etc.
owenator: Sleeping little girls and boys did not attempt to kill Bates. The key word is sleeping. And if he actually snapped he would have killed the ones sleeping closest to him. He is a Killer of the first degree.
How many of our soldiers have had four terms and did not and will not go out and kill sleeping children and their mothers. Go back and look at the blanket around the dead child with only that tiny little arm peeking through the it.
owenator: I pray you never come home and see your family murdered by a so called soldier.
Why are wasting our money, send him back to the authorities there. He deserves no respect and no hope.
@terik11
We are not at war with the Afghanis, we are at war with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and other terror organizations. Afghanistan happens to be the battlefield. We are not at war with "innocent" civilians (I put innocent in quotations because whether or not some of the casualties commited aggresive acts in the past or may in the future, they were in their homes unarmed and not posing a threat at the time of their deaths, so therefore were not viable combat targets). Afghanis are people, with souls, hopes, futures, fears, concerns, and desire to live just like any other human being. I am not saying he is guilty of this or not guilty- I do not have access to the witnesses, the evidence, I was not there, and I do not know if he did the act, and if he did it, I do not know if he did it alone or not. As much as I do not want a fellow Soldier to be a sacrificial lamb, I cannot justify or defend his actions if he is guilty. Murdering civilians is WRONG. It's a war crime, or simply a crime if you prefer. All attempts must be made to determine if he actually did the crime as accused, and if he did, he must be punished to the full extent of the law.
We portray ourselves as fighting for a just cause against terror. Many of my brothers and sisters have died fighting for that cause, a cause that they believed in. To justify his actions (if he did do them), and not prosecute and punish him, would tarnish the sacrifice of every serviceman and servicewoman who have died in this conflict. We are not terrorists or savages. We must uphold our cause and always do the right thing. Drinking in a combat zone and shooting unarmed villagers in the night in a premeditated act of cold blooded murder is about as wrong as wrong can be, is unexcusable, and not defendable.
-US Army Infantryman, served in Afghanistan, still serving
I have personally spoken to vets who went into villages and found women and children shooting guns at them. They had the choice of dying and letting their friends die or shooting back. No one should ever have to make a choice like that. I'm not saying these children in this incident were shooting. All we know is that we were told that they were sleeping. They could have waked up and had guns next to their beds. Maybe not. Probably not. Why would a soldier go into their homes in the first place? That's a big question. The thing is that we don't know.
I've also spoken to vets who had friends blown up right next to them. One of them was splattered with his friend's blood and body parts. That was during the Battle of the Bulge and he had not told anyone what had happened for decades. He sobbed as he spoke about it, but he insisted on telling the story. These things do NOT leave a person untouched, whether they talk about it or not. He had a brother who had also fought in the war. The brother never discussed the war at all, but after he had had a surgery later in life, he began hitting his wife in his sleep and occasionally sleepwalking. The wife began sleeping in another room because of it. He would get up and and if someone was walking around awake, he might seem to accost that person, even his own son. This man was the most gentle man who ever lived when awake. I always wondered if the sleepwalking and stuff was like PTSD or something from the war-it was so out of character for him.
While PTSD affects every person differently, I am tired of seeing it used as an end-all excuse. We have people on disability for PTSD they claimed to have received in basic training! So if I wake up tomorrow and decide I am sick of my neighbor's loud music, I can go next door and blow his head off then turn myself in and get off because of PTSD?
My experiences in war may have been different than his, my experiences may affect me differently than they would affect him, but if he did what he is accused of, I don't care how much PTSD or TBI he had, it was WRONG. And he knew it! People do bad things all the time, things that would seem "out of character" for them. Of course it is out of character! People usually commit murder once or a few times before they are caught, or because they were "out of character." If he normally would not murder a bunch of people, its because he knew it was wrong. He made a decision to do what he did, has motives, and perhaps PTSD played a part in the process. Does not mean it is excusable, or pardonable. Perhaps God can forgive him. But those people are dead, and their families are suffering for it. Tell them that its ok, he had PTSD, its out of character for him. He is sorry.
If he did have PTSD so bad, he would know he needs to get help. We get counseling, briefings, warnings, etc all the time to get mental help done if we need it. I knew when I needed it, and I went to get help. Many of my friends turned to get help. If he needed help, he should of gone to get help. Refusing to get help when you know you have a problem puts the blame still on his shoulders.
Of course its possible he didn't do it, or didn't do it alone, and I hope the investigation brings to light what happened.
But point is, PTSD does not get a murderer off the hook.
*most likely does not
So, this man faces a death sentence for this? And what of the Fort Hood Muslim, Major Nidal Malik Hasan that cried Allah Akba as he killed 12 and wounded 31 people here in the states? He gets off with an insanity plea? Where's the stress in being a psychiatrist stateside compared to being a soldier under combat conditions? SSgt Bales needs justice, as does Major Nidal Malik Hasan from the Fort Hood incicdent.
I was just about to post on this very thing. This Major murders 13 of his own fellow soldiers and two years later they still haven't figured out what to do with him (I haven't heard any death penalty talk about him, meanwhile the SSgt has been tried and sentenced in the press). Apparently when it comes to muslims doing the dirty deeds it's hands off, we must be politically sensitive. What BS.
Tried by a jury of his peers.......... or in the left-handed press?????
Our U.S. Justice system guarantees nothing for Americans, unless you're running guns for the DEA, and you happen to be the AG.
There is a huge difference between fort hood and this case. Fort Hood occurred on US soil. In fact if this soldier had committed murder on a US base in AFG he should have been brought back to the US as he was and sent to a court martial. In this case he committed a crime on Afghanistans sovereign soil and should be handed over to their police and tried in their justice system. If this had happened in any country, say italy, he would face italian courts. Why is he facing US military courts and not Afghanistan's? As an ex AFG vet I feel for his victims. The US should provide representation in the Afghan courts and turn him over to the crinimal justice system inb which he committed the crime. He certainly deserves the death penalty if he actually did this and should not get off on temporary insanity. I am not sure my Afghan friends would see this favorably to have a double standard just because he is a US soldier. try him in the Afghan courts.
They've delayed Hasan's court-martial again until June:
kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=63990
I happen to live here so we keep up with it better than the national media does, the wheels of justice turn slowly.
The insanity plea is nothing but BS. Who in their right mind would commit this sort of crime? You have to be insane period. This is a pitiful defense that is not a logical defense. And then the prosecutor has to prove instead of the defense proving otherwise. In other countries, the defense has the burden! America is backwards.
Hasan is facing the death penalty. The trial is scheduled to begin this summer.
The Pentagon has gone ahead with its 2nd 100,000 printing of 'Get out of jail free cards - Well, I'll be!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, Major Hasan warned the US Army that the so-called' PTSD 'victims' he was debriefing were confessing to gross war crimes and recommended that they be court-martialed instead and put away. The Army commanders laughed and the Major got himself a 9mm and the rest is history. If the US Marine Corps can let the Haditha' cold blooded USMC killers of 24 mostly innocent women and children WALK. Then Major Hasan deserves a 'Get out of jail free card' from the US Pentagon too!!!!!!!!!!!!
Major Hasan did what the US military courts (Full of the killers peers - war criminals themselves) are refusing to do. MET OUT JUSTICE to war criminals. I mean, the Nuremburg protocols would put 96% of the US/Israeli military (Iraq/Gaza) in the 'Gallows' section.
MasterChief - Smooth Seas and Prevailing Winds to you from a retired RMCS.
Re: Major Hasan.
He get's a commendation medal for taking out some very sick war criminals that were confessing their horrific war cimes to him as a psychiatrist, (As bad, and probably wose, than what this jerk did in Kandajar). Why are you hypocrites so anxious to kill (PTSD afftected Taliban fighters that are doing exactly what any 'patriot' would do, 'defend their country against some pretty cold blooded killers from around the planet - over there minding someone elses oil/gas and natural resources to 'steal' and plunder' (Iraq/Libya) these small impotent countries that can do little against the Great Satan.'
Well Texans Rep Allen of Florida has not forgotten the citizens of Texas killed that day some were civilians. He just mentioned the case in a speech to congress he is giving now. Insurance man David quite a few of the wounded were civilian employees at the base women no less my cousin was there. Three of the dead were civilians not soldiers He didn't care if they were combatants he was shooting at freaking secretaries.
What about the Major Husan. Yeah he is a killer he will be brought to trial in the United States when the murders happened. Bates was brought back to the United States and will not be tried in the country where he murdered. Those we are comparing the two are blind with hate.
So we will prosecute Husan and we will prosecute Bates. Doesn't seem fair to me. You should always be tried in the country where you committed the crime, by the citizens of that country.
He's arabic with proof he actually committed the crimes.
This soldier, all there is, is a "confession" from him. Where's the video of it? Where's the transcripts? Oh, there isn't any. No witnesses, no DNA, no video proof, no photo proofs..................yup, lets execute him.
Yet, most people are calling to execute this soldier and not Maj. Hassan. Makes logical sense.
Insurance man:David, It's okay for him as a psychiatrist to kill American citizens without a trial? Really? In whose world? I don't care what they confessed to, in this country people get a trial before they get the death penalty. If Hasan can't handle what he hears, he's in the wrong profession. BTW, I'm a PT; and I've heard some pretty ear curling confessions myself. Some of them touch on person issues. However, I don't get a gun and start shooting my patients. The only things I can report are child sexual abuse, threats of suicide, or threats of harm to another person.
Major Hasan was told about all the 'Friggin towelheads, sand @!$%#s and Camel Jockey's the low life killers had murdered, mangled, sodomized. tortured and executed (Kill team. Haditha, Fallujah) and being a Muslim the major (As a human being, had to react - I mean we're not made of stone, right?). I empathize with the major and wish him well, under the terrible circumstances he finds himself in, being tried by a 'pack pf racist infidel's' that claim to come from a democracy, yet murderr, maim, execute, rape, sodomize and torture - no better no worse then the Taliban - the 'savages,' LOL as if they also came from 'Attila-the-huns' tribe. We're a very sick country AmeriKKKa and you have only to read the posts on this site to see the GED 'drop-outs' (BTW: Excellent US 'macho man' military material) make their venomous comments (But, rarely when the genocidal Jews are 'executing' innocent civilian Palestinian men, women and children in the same fashion as 'flunky' Bales here).
Yassar. like the good 'Ol Reverend Wright said in 2008. "God damn AmeriKKKa!' So true... so true... so VERY true!
slightlyold
If we had sent the major to Afghanistan they would have hailed him as a hero. I suspect that he infiltrated the military as a sleeper to do just what he did. As for not prosecuting Bales in that country, he is subject to military law and will be tried by such. There are a lot of foreigners that have diplomatic immunity in this country that commit crimes and are never touched, because somebody declared their embassy's sovereign foreign soil. Now that, is a crock! Personally,I think there is a lot more to this story than we are being told.
We also don't know if they had intel where woman were carrying explosives around under their clothes for use in IED attacks, or if they had intel about the children being used as scouts. He might just claim they were enemy combatants. What I do know, is he will get a very fair trial under the UCMJ.
Trying to make (((wiggle))) room for the killa, huh Pilgrim? Well, shame on you. Put yourself in the victims shoes (guilty of nothing and being savaged by an aggressor country) and then talk this caca you're talking.
To: Jonal11, You've been reading too many US Military/IDF propaganda artricles, Pilgrim. Ever see a 2 year old or an 86 year old Afghan great grandmother 'scounting' for the Taliban - or even the US Marines?!!!
InsuranceMan,
The Taliban last year executed a 7 year old by hanging for being a spy.
Been reading the Jerusalem Post and Arutz-7 Jewish rags again, huh Pilgrim?
Actually, it was posted on msnbc. thanks for playing.
All war is insanity. The Afghan war goes way beyond that. Just bring our people home before more of ours are murdered in the name of some alien god for some supposed insult. We have drones and bombs, we don't need troops on the ground.
Ohhhh, but the 'war addicted' warmongering killers are 'dreaming' of hitting the beaches in Iran and Syria, as we speak!
War is hell. Chalk it up with the IED victims and Afghan victims of their own bombers. Then get the hell out of that craphole.
What this man did was wrong. Plain and simple. However; he was put upon by the military time and again. The most that should be done, get this man the help he needs, then send him home to be with his wife and kids!
How come when a Taliban warrior (that is defending his country from the oil/gas/resource 'thieves' of US/NATO) is captured alive - no one steps up and claims PTSD and 'Well, his dad used to beat him when he was a kid,' bullsh*t?
Put upon by the Military? How do you figure that? He volunteered to serve, just like everyone else over there. He served 3 tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. I'm quite certain that between those time he must have had to re-up at least once. Did he decide NOT to go back? Obviously not.
While there are instances where innocents die in war accidently this was not one of them. He did this on purpose. He deserves to be punished like any murderer.
Send him home with his wife and kids so he can scam more elderly people, and possibly murder more innocent children? No thanks, keep him out of society. Lock him up and throw away the key.
He KILLED CIVILIANS! and you want to let him rest up a bit and go home? We have detained Afghans for FAR less and for FAR longer.
To: Shane C. ("Shane, come back! Shane, come back!" (From the movie 'Shane') - a classic and great move!)
Always nice to see intelligent comments (The cream always goes to the top) in these debates. Hey, 'you play with the bull - you get the horn." Been true for 1,000 years from Ghengis Kahn, to Attila-the-hum and on to the 'serial killer' General Stanly McChrystals. dayze.
However? Realy? However? What this man did was evil period exclamationmark!
Dfrom:I hope it also applies to your family. No justice. What a sick conclusion. I wonder what you would do if a another country invades us and a occupying soldier butchers your family. I hope you provide the assassin all the help he needs. How about a reward?
Well, he's not in the MASTER war criminal upper 2% of his class; like, let's say, the whitehouse 'idiot savant' of 2007, George W. Bush, right Pilgrims? LOL!
Do you not think there will be retaliation if he is not convicted? I would not want to be his wife or child and have to hide and live in fear for the rest of my life. Even if we convict and he is sentenced to the death penality, his family is "at risk", forever.
Dont you think if the media would have not annouced his name or anything about his family they would have to be in hiding. So we have the government and the media to thank for that.
I'd be more worried about Hassan if he walks. If that ass walks after shooting secretaries (citizens of Texas) not combatants they better get him out of Texas in one big hurry.
I feel horrible for all the people that were killed however I could never do what our military men and women do. I can't imagine the mental anguish and how things you were exposed to in 4 tours of duty affect you and your mental stability. Is that an excuse no, it's just an explanation. I do believe our government should be somewhat accountable. There should be a 2 or 3 MAX tour of duty requirement and then you should be allowed to serve your country in other ways. I just hope and PRAY that the government doesn't use him as an "example" to prove a point to the Afghanistan government.
Robyn, I understand what you are saying, but it's truly not feasible. The military cannot put a cap on how many deployments a particular service person must fulfill. With no draft, our military personnel are limited. My son did 4 tours in Iraq in less than 10yrs. That is just the way it is.
While I agree with you in that I don't want to see him held up as an "Example", he has to held reponsible for his actions.
Janine, tell your son thank you. But, you made my previous point. He did not go out and kill sleeping children. Again, thank you for you son.
Ole 'Rule of the Jungle' when you're out murdering, maiming and stealing peoples 'pieces-of-eight.' You kill and loot and your government gives you little 'medals' and the war profiteers get 'Billions' in profits.' Hell of a deal, huh Pilgrims? You have to admit, P. T. Barnum was soooo right: "Sucker born every minute,' Just waive 'Patriot' under his nose and give him a weapon that will blow people away like his old Nintendo 'War Games' fun pack used to do and he's ready to board ship and go try his new sophistikated genocide toy. (Whooppee, I once scored a zillion points - but, in Afghanistan I only scored 11.5 points (You only get a 1/2 point for 'wasting' children there, ya know?
A good defense would be to call into question the veracity of past official statements coming for the U.S. government. The only thing more certain than death and taxes is dishonesty coming from the U.S. government. It is incredibly rare to ever get the truth from the government. It is a safe bet to assume that whatever the government says is not the truth, and almost certainly is exactly the opposite of the truth. If the government claims that Bales did this horrendous crime, it is safe to assume that he did not do it.
Why should the government claim that Bales did anything. He, himself, admitted that he did.
This was his confusion. It was not beat out of him, etc. He should receive one of best bullets.
Varacity of whaaaaaaaa?!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Pilgrim, 'what you smoking in that pipe?'
I am sure the republican party is behind Bales and will do their best to turn him into a national hero. He might be able to get some money from the Koch bros. for a new political career as a republican adviser. Bales knows the political climate in the US and we all know that nothing will be done to this idiot. This is the style of democracy the US is trying to force down the throats of the Arab nations no wonder they want no part of it.
Very objective nonsense?!
What a stupid waste of time, he already said he did it
No what he said is he killed some MEN not that he killed women and children. Question is there any proof that there were women and children? I haven't seen any just a black spot on a floor. Ever try to burn a body? Bones do not burn at normal fire temperatures.
lonereb: Go back and look at the very small child wrapped in a blanket with only the little tiny arm sticking out. The black spot you saw was after the bodies were removed. Your name says it all...guns, guns, guns.
Have you ever tried to burn a body. NO. HAVE YOU?
It is horrible what this soldier did to these civilians but, I also blame the military for putting our soldiers in this position. To keep sending our soldiers into these inhuman countries and seeing how these barbaric countries treat our people is awful. To decapitate people and slaughter civilians and military personnel is beyond belief. These people don't want our help anyway. Why our politicians force our support on these countries is beyond me. We need to get the h*ll out of these countries and worry about protecting our borders. We need to fight the domestic battle going on in America first. We can't help ourselves more or less anyone else, that doesn't truly want help. America MUST have a program (a true program) in operation to assist soldiers and private contractors in times of despair. Our government is asking too much from our soldiers and then not standing to support them. Our country, government and citizens, do not show the proper appreciation to our people that was shown during the WWl & WWll wars. There must be a change for our own survival.
To: Thinking 'Fuzzy.'
Barbaric countries?!!! (What you smoking in that pipe dude?)
Tell me Pilgrim who has murdered 4.9m innocents in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia (Then poured some 19m gallons of Agent Orange dioxins on the survivors destroying (genetically) millions more?) and 1.4m innocents in Iraq and over 300,000 in AF/PAK?
Yes, I thought you would apolgize for your absured comment.
You sound like a terrorist plant. The pot calling the kettle black.
Insuranceman David I don't apologize for Vietnam I think we were stupid for getting involved but I don't apologize for defoliating a jungle in which the enemy was hiding. I don't apologize for Korea either or WWII or WWI. What was was study it but do not live in it. Try to learn the lessons from it but nothing in the past can be undone. It is time to learn to look past the rhetoric of people trying to make a point either religious or political from war. No war is continued because of religion but it makes a good story.
OH, but lonereb, the Agent Orange just didn't kill the enemy. How many U.S. children were born with defects because of it. Thousands. How many U.S. men finally died because of Agent Orange...Thousands and thousands..my brother was one of them.
Have you ever served, if not, please sign up and put your ass in there. A soldier does not kill sleeping children and women. He did not snapped. Bates planned it out. He is a Murderer. Plain and Simple. Should had been handed over to the country where he committed murder. l
These so-called innocent women and children are quite possibly not as innocent as one might think....well maybe they are. They live in a society that allows for the "menfolk" to use these women and children as shields and strap bombs to them. They use them as decoys. Its a bad, bad world they live in. The list of "uses" for these people goes on and on. We ( USA ) will NEVER be able to change the minds or lifestyle of the Afganis or other nations like them. This soldier may or may not have done this crime that he is accused of....but is it really a crime?
Thank You America for allowing me to sound off.
Terik, I agree with you to a point. It happens that women and children are used as decoys or suicide bombers, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Al Queda uses the small villages as places to hide out, and then screams "Americans must die" when our soldiers go in and have to kill innocents to get to the enemy. I agree with you on that.
But this is not the case. My own personal belief is that he did it in vengeance to the soldiers who were murdered over that Koran debacle. I could be wrong, but the timing was right.
Last time I checked, the USA was still waging war in countries that belong to other people. Why not build another 900 bases to make sure the USA is realy realy safe? Why not 2000 extra? Bomb Iran to feel even more safe. Make an army of 25 million people so you can station over 3000 bases in the world. USA safe at all cost. Hey, why not bomb North Korea when you are at it. Make it 4000 bases. Those scary Taliban are such a threat. No... 4000 what was I thinking. USA can be safe: 10,000 bases around the world. An army of 50 million people. That should USA feel more safe...
Yassar, let's talk about poor PTSD 'victim' Sgt Bales life. Poor thing, I bet he was an eagle scout when he was 'knee high to a grasshopper' and tore the heads off squirrels when he was working for that 'macho man' merit badge, just to see how they were 'put together.' As for burning his victims, some dead and probably some of them still beathing - bet, the stench of burning flesh was 'exhilierationg' in that drug and alcohol frenzy he and his pals found themselves in after an IED has killed some of his equally murderous 'buddies.' (redux Haditha, huh folks?). No sirrrr, this murder and mayhem by the Great Satan's 'demons' has reached a saturation point (Remembering Haditha, Fallujah, Sadar City, and now Kandajar as US armed aggression has gone berzerk and the entire world is threatened by the 'Only super power 'bully' in the Milky Way galaxy. This rabid puppy has got to be 'put to sleep.' This is what is done to all wild animals that do these horrific war crimes and I don't mean after 20 years of appeals and posturing by the "Oh my, look at our poor PTSD infected 'patriot' done. Yes, the word 'patriot' makes my stomach churn. the stomach acids work themselves up to my throat and choke me.
They bring in these criminals (many of them outright criminals that need a 'moral waiver' document signed by their probation officers or presiding judge just to allow them to murder and commit atrocities in 'defnse' of their country - Vomit! These dudes use murder and mayhem as an 'aphrodisiatic' and then American's 'over-look' their criminal tendencies 'because they wear the uniform of 'AmeriKKKa the awfull.'
Sorry pal, you get a thumbs down for this horrific war crime you and your (in hiding with the help of the Pentagon ghouls) war crimianl buddies. Maybe the US got away 'clean' with the murder of 1.4m Iraqi's in AmeriKKKa's aggression against an impotent Iraq - but, (sorry) you're belatedly going to pay for each one of them - and the equally murderous ZioNazi Jews (killers of innocent civilians with US supplied weapons of war) that have some nasty things also coming to them as soon as Papa Amadinijad can figure out that nuclear rubic's cube he's been trying to assemble foe awhile now - as we speak.
Nuff Said....
I don't know if I feel sad for this incident or for people like you. You truly need help for your misguided and unnecessary hatred and bigotry. Enough said!
To: Fuzzy 0457.
'Don't cry for me Argentina,' in the end (excuse the pun) justice is the winner. If there is a 'hell' this guy will have to 'take a number' and wait for the 'Hades Rout 666 subway. There's just too many rascist war criminals in the US/Israeli military staying out of jail by 'Killing for their government's ghouls' .
Gee the way you talk about the stench of burning flesh makes me think you are the dangerous one. It wasn't the least bit exhilirating when I had to cremate our dog Trouble. I had to step back about five feet and stay out of the smoke. Couldn't breathe. I also had to try three times using gasoline and the fire hardly touched the bones but at least the other dogs couldn't get whatever he died of. Insuranceman David I suggest a shrink before you end up being in court for killing someone.Sgt Bales is a man not a rabid puppy and I wouldn't treat a dog like you would. Humane treatment is a code in this country you want the justice you seek move to Afghanistan and you can have it.
PTSD is no joke, it is a very very serious problem!! Where is the medical professional that deemed this man fit for his 3rd tour of duty after a brain injury? These men & women are trained to fight, they want to deploy and have no thought about their mental condition, they believe it is their responsibility to deploy into battle, PTSD or not, mentally stable or not. It is time that the powers that be, be held accountable when they let someone deploy that should not. I can't imagine how this is going to play out, but there is responsibility beyond just this one man, and our government need to stand behind our military instead of sending people out to do their dirty work, then hanging them out to dry. I absolutely do not condone what this man is charged of doing, but there has got to be more to this story. Insurance man, you are an idiot!!
Insurance man does sound a little out of it, but he is right. No matter how you look at it, he is right. I didn't think about that maybe one of these children might have been alive when he burned them.
Shame on him and Shame on the rest of us.
But, lets go to war again and again. Just to satisfy the Corporate killers.
Insurance man is a manipulator of words and therefore very dangerous. For one thing, we don't know for sure this crime actually occured, as the evidence has not been examined. For another, there is absolutely NO evidence Sgt. Bates was anything like the horrible person Insurance man presents him to be (tearing off the heads of squirrels, etc.) That is a complete fabrication of his imagination. In fact, there is more evidence that Sgt. Bates was the exact opposite of that. We have NO reason to believe that any of the bodies were alive when they were burned or that anyone would have reason to take joy in that fact if they were. If anything, it sounds like Insurance man has experience in those horrible, sick areas! That plus his cries for violence and his equation of certain people with dogs make me consider him very, very sick and very dangerous.
If he is sane, he deserves the death penalty.
If he's insane he deserves the death penalty, because if he were sane now he would want it.
If a foreign national serving in an embassy in New York City, for example, goes berzerk and guns down a few Americans, who has jurisdiction? New York City? The person's native country?
So an American goes berzerk in Afghanistan and kills innocent Afghan civilians. This is a crime against Afghan civilians so why isn't the American turned over to Afghan civilian authorities?
The announced reason we are in Afghanistan is to assist the Karzai government establish itself to the point where the local government can maintain a modicum of order. Turning the American over to the local authority would be a clear indication that the United States is willing to back up its announced claim for why we are in that country. Either that or we should come clean and tell the world, and all Americans that we are in Afghanistan to occupy and control Afghanistan.
Bush sent us into Afghanistan as a means to increase troop presence in the middle east prior to Israels attack on Iran, because Israel is a spoiled woman who won't be happy until they've made the whole world suffer.
To: Disgusted 309248.
Because WAR CRIMINAL AmeriKKKa has all the nukes!
"Might makes Right,' remember that one?
As for Israel: "DON'T WORRY - BE HAPPY. Messar Ahmadinjad is working to take care of that (((festering))) infected 'pimple.'
Soldiers are under the control of the US military and the ultimate blame is with the President of the US. If the soldier pays, it will be to the US government. otherwise he/she would be turned over to the local authorities.
Diplomatic immunity unless his country gives him up he goes home for justice for the foreign national in the US
Dear Soldier Mom: Yes, it is serious, but Bates does not have PTSD, he planned this from top to bottom. If he snapped he would have taken out his fellow soldiers.
Since we do not use firing squads anymore, the needle is just fine. If no one has the guts I'll do it free.
You know what's hilarious? When this story first broke, the media was all about how wonderful this guy was, how out of character what he's accused of is.
Then, as facts start coming out, it turns out he really isn't so queaky clean, he's a sociopath and a con-artist who got nailed for ripping his clients off for millions, a deadbeat who didn't pay his debts, if anything they need to look to see if he has any connections to other murders prior to his entering the military.
They were crucifying him from the beginning. You don't read slant do you. raise your comprehension level please words and meanings are different. And you are a child if you think joining the military to get out of trouble is new. In fact I knew a judge in Milwaukee who would give guys a chance to sign up rather than ruin their lives over joyriding or a joint or two. In fact I knew 5 guys that got that break.
Train them to kill. Scratch your head when they kill. These fake wars and standing peace-time armies are destroying lives. Vote anything but Democrat or Republican.
All these soldiers going through this horrific war...and we dont even think about the war they are going through in their minds. This guy went on 3 tours and was told there would be no more and then put on a 4th tour would send anyones mind crazy. What angers me more though is all I have heard in the last 6 months is how we (United States) are killing off our heros. When is this going to stop. A man goes to fight for us and when something bad happens because of disease or literally insane crazyness...as this ...the first thing we say is were going to put him to death. Shoot to kill...People need to open their eyes...i thought it was horrible when I heard the SWAT team say its our job to shoot the military heros that come back PTSD. Lets see the law inforcement or SWAT go through what these military people go through. My own belief is anyone that is in military and goes on tour and is lucky to make it home is a hero...have we forgot why we are sending our men and women over there...did anyone think that if this poor soul wasnt sent over there as planned that this wouldnt of happened...what about the guy who signed the papers for him to go on this 4th tour...he should be punished to for sending this guy over there....knowing he was a ticking time bomb...he should be at faught to for not doing his job. Yet here we go again...killing our military heros...why dont we place the blame where it really should be....not on this young man but on the people that sent him over on the 4th tour.
Amen. The politicians are the real criminals here. They should go on trial for his actions. Senseless wars.
They are investigating the military hospital there and around the country for claims that PTSD diagnoses are being overturned for cost cutting reasons that is where we should focus our ire if it is true. Our troops deserve better they should get the best after serving us.
The infidel in the Fort Hood terrorist attack- Bama does not want to use that term- he is afraid of the truth- Hang the SOB on TV.
So Ed, do you also use the term "terrorist attack" when christians burn down women's clinics and mosques in the USA? How about when christians send death threats to people who only want their first ammendment rights? If you're willing to call a person who actually had PTSD and snapped a terrorist attack, then you should be willing to call what Bales did one too as well as what the tea party republics did when they held our economy hostage.
I have just finished reading the book entitled WAR by Sebastian Junger. Anyone, who has not faced the daily horrors of war should should this book.He was embedded with troops in Afganistan and what he has to say about that experience is very eye opening. One thing he wrote that caught my eye was that the men are given shots of mefloquine which is to fight off malaria. Unfortunately, the side effects of this medicine are depression, paranoia, aggression, nightmares and insomnia. Add to that the daily stress of battle and you may have an explanation on what happened to this particular soldier. Because one looks for an explanation does mean they are excusing an event. But, if we don't understand what caused something how can we hope to try and prevent if from happening again in the future. Understanding does not equate forgiveness or acceptance.
No but I want equal justice for the citizens of Texas non military secretaries who were killed and wounded at Ft Hood. He didn't just shoot soldiers I know I have cousins living in Killeen who were working on that base that day. How about when Atheists threaten Catholics online who also want their first amendment rights? Same goes for some rabid womens groups. Hate speech flows like water in this country from both sides these days. I don't trust all of you liberals either because historically in this country you do what you say eventually.
If his mental condition had been that diminished, his superiors should have noticed. There is not one excuse for this event, not one. He should have been turned over to the Afghan government and taken the punishment.