From the article: "According to the Daily, England lives with her parents, is unemployed, has suffered from PTSD symptoms and is haunted by her past. She told the news publication that Graner has refused to acknowledge their 7-year-old son, even though his paternity was proved in 2009."

She is a sad case.

Troubled, to say the least. Not exactly what I'd think would be great parenting material...

While I can understand in a vaguely intellectual way why this woman feels as she does, and I myself am not inclined to judge her since I haven't been through a combat experience, I think she fails to understand why what she did was wrong.

Sure, the Iraqis weren't saints and she probably had ample reason to hate them personally, many soldiers who have been shot at hate the enemy, but we're Americans. We're supposed to stand for the right thing even in the face of provocation. If we want other countries to look up to us (and therefore want to be on our side and not Iran's or China's), we have to set a higher standard.

It's the same reason we shouldn't waterboard. Maybe it produces useful intelligence and the people being waterboarded are scum, but we're Americans and we don't do that sort of thing. It may be useful, but it's not right. Got to draw the line somewhere.

Now she is the person I picture when Rush uses the words Slut, Prositute or Bill Maher's "C" word.

AG99:

There is a simple test, from the Golden Rule:

What would you feel if "enemy army" came to your country, named you a terrorist, threw to a jail and tortured there?

What would you feel, if you got yanked from streets, and put into a prison on a remote island for many years without a hope to be proven innocent?

What would you feel if our civilians were waterboarded? If you, personally?

Imagine Red Dawn scenario. When "C" invades US of A. And all of this happens. Won't you be making IEDs and blowing them up?

AlexG - I live in the 21st century and don't fantasies about kid's toy soldier games or Hollywood movies.

She is disgusting beyond words. She says she is unemployed and haunted by her past, but NOPE! NOT SORRY! She says she's sorry that more Americans were killed because of her, yet she feels no remorse for her actions? Is she so stupid she cannot see the contradiction? I've had bowel movements that have more class than she does.

She always was a sad case from the begining.

Is this a Palin-esque grab for more than her 15 minutes?

What an ignoramous. My sons fought in this war -- one of them came back disabled, and even he understands that the war was wrong. They had nothing to do with 9/11. There was absolutely no justification to invade and occupy their country. We can't even justify it by saying that they're better off! We were after their resources. Period. I wonder how we would feel if someone invaded us for our resources.

Even if I felt the way she does (and I don't), I'd have sense enough to keep it to myself.

Well, she can always apply to be an intern on the "Mush" show -- he'll take her.

AlexG,

Without knowing it, you've proved AG99 point. A whole bunch of Iraquis were most likely very glad somebody finally stepped in, stopped Saddam's reign of terror and prevented future decades worth of terror by preventing his sons from taking up where Saddam would eventually leave off.

We completely voided whatever sliver of moral high ground we had for being there thanks to the continued stream of repeated strategic policy / planning mistakes by the Bush Administration and basic human rights abuses by cretins like Lynndie England.

AG99, I think I disagree. It wasn't wrong because it turns other countries against us, although it certainly does do that. It was wrong because it was an insult to the human dignity of the detainees. So her "explanation" of why she thinks it was OK actually makes sense, even though it is twisted. She simply thinks they are not deserving of dignity. That is an all too common point of view today. When you lose the concept that a human life is valuable for more than what it can/does contribute to society, you're on a slippery slope.

She's also too stupid to realize that if she hadn't committed and been convicted of the abuse, she could have stayed in the Army and taken advantage of all the benefits the military offers it's folks...career training, college tuition assistance, medical & dental for her and her kid, affordable child care - the military can be a fairly large safety net for single parents - and probably some determined help going after her baby's deadbeat daddy, especially if he himself wasn't drummed out for abuse also.

Now she's nothing more than a huge drain on society, her folks and her child and most likely will be for the rest of her life.

She's from West Virginia. Enough said.

i definately see irony, or maybe just a really sad state of affairs, on one news thread i see a long collection of comments that believe that its ok to to string up bin ladens kids, cause well he was a monster, and theyre his kids and all, even if the youngest is 3, doesnt matter, string em up, and here we have england bein blasted for her role in torture, saying o well ur a monster. hypocricy is crushing the life out of america.

I feel little sympathy for Ms. England. Her wrongful actions along with those of her fellow "soldiers" are responsible for the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of Coalition Forces (including a Navy buddy's son in 2005, the "straw that broke the camel's back" that led to my enlistment in the Army the same year), something I am happy she is at least remorseful about.

As far as PTSD, the actions taken by her and the members of her squad were as responsible for any stress as any of the conditions at Abu Ghraib. They went beyond ANY standard of military behavior and while I am happy they were held accountable, I have always regretted that more senior Officers and NCO's weren't (held accountable) in the aftermath of this disgraceful incident (which our media did everything they possibly could to make worse).

As for lack of remorse toward her victims, just because someone is a criminal or terrorist doesn't give you some right to violate their basic human rights when they are in custody. Your job as a detainee guard is to protect those detainees until they can answer for any crimes they may have committed, and it is NOT YOUR JOB to extract justice.

I dealt with plenty of bad people as an MP in both the Navy and Army, but I dealt with them as a military professional, not as a thug (although some Navy and Marine bar room brawlers might disagree on that last point).

I wonder if she's even telling the truth about being troubled by the fear that her actions contributed to American deaths, or if she's just a straight-up remorseless sociopath.

@K Man-629118:

I thought I was not in disagreement with AG99.

This is just a big pile of sad. The whole thing gives me the willies.

She is NOT a sad case. She is an embarassment to the country, a disgrace, and behaves like the savages we are fighting.

It's not sad that she did what she did?

How the hell did she get PTSD?

She'd have PTSD if I were her NCO, because she and the rest of her crew would rock push ups til the cows came home for that nasty a$$ floor behind her !!!

We received nearly a full month of training over late 2007 and early 2008 for our '08-'09 deployment to run a Detainee Housing Annex, and that is something her unit probably did not have the benefit of, but that is also no excuse for not bothering to maintain even basic standards of conduct and housekeeping !!

They may have been Reservists, but I'm sure that someone packed a broom and I'm sure at least a few of those Reservists had served on Active Duty and actually maintained military standards at some point in their careers.

We ran 8 hour shifts at our D-HA and sweeping the floor and maintaining vacant cells were staff responsibilities (as was escorting the poopy truck onto the compound,which is simply awesome when it's 130 degrees outside) for EVERY SHIFT. Having a nasty cell block meant you weren't heading for breakfast (or dinner) and bed, because your a$$ was staying until the place was clean and your paperwork was right, and that was because our unit had military standards, something the sorry Reservists involved in this outrage obviously lacked !!

Now she's nothing more than a huge drain on society, her folks and her child and most likely will be for the rest of her life.

How is that any worse than the rest of the welfare recipients that have never held a job at all, let alone served in the military to whatever end?

You giving rednecks a bad name man.

Give me 10 seconds with this POS and I would verbally assault the skin of her.

Yeah, she is.

And that would make you so much better than her Sunil? You condemn her for abuse and then brag about how you could abuse her. What a man!

So Democrats are all knowing all seing lovers of everyone. You are the ones who make me sick, you have no clue bout reality.

democrats are for fair treatment for everyone, there's a difference and the fact that you don't see it says alot.

Scandal sells.

I believe that her statement actually is newsworthy. It's important for the public to know her attitude, whether it's because she's probably not alone in her disdain for a population that was merely fighting back against an invasion, or because this is follow-up information on a very important news item from some of the darkest of the dark days of the Bush administration. She's a redneck, and when I listen to the speeches of the top 3 Republican candidates, I can see that the redneck vote is very important now -- which is a very sad statement about America.

I think that lots of Americans use the same justifications for the war -- Iraqi's are better off now than with Sadaam [which is not true]; Sadaam was a bad ruler and needed to be taken out -- as she does. It's a hypocritical opinion that flies in the face of our (supposed) values of national sovereignty, and it's common among Americans.

We all have blood on our hands, and we need to listen to what this hick says, because she's speaking for all of us.

Since Saddam is gone the whole place over there is going crazy. The atrocties to his poeple I saw on tv was unforgivable. Sad as it may be to think this, maybe sometimes it is best to leave it in place. A pain as he was to us, he kept an eerie calm in the region over there because of fear of what he would do. As long as he was alive the Talibon and Osama could not go that direction, he would've killed them. If the dumb Busch Administration had a brain they would have cashed in on this fact. They could have used them as unwhitting allies. Could have used them without them ever knowing it.

I agree Bill, and yes Rick , why wasting time with a piece of trash like her...

White Trash! White Trash! Whatcha gonna do!

She's a far cry from Jessica Lynch, huh?

You're right. Lynch was just an incompetent little girl who gave up the second that things got nasty.

What has this got to do with race? Simply because she is white? If her race had anything to do with this she would have been tried for "hate" crimes, not just violating regulations, abuse of authority, etc.

When we finally learn to not base our actions or excuse our faults due to the actions of the enemy is when we actually win the war against them. It doesn't take action in a combat zone to know that it is truly un-American to torture and ridicule prisoners of war.

Well, since I have served in combat, 3 tours in Iraq, I will comment. She didn't get it then, she doesn't get it now nor is it likely she will ever get it. Her actions were wrong and against her training as well as international law. She is a weak minded individual with no moral compass and can never be called a credit to her service or country. Pity her child having to grow up under her guidance.

I've never illegally invaded a foreign country and tortured their POWs, either, but I have a fair idea it's not part of the training, or is it? Come to think of it, didn't the SecDef directly order this torture? How come he's still walking around while this moron did 3 years?

Red,

True, to a point. However, when we mistreat our prisoners in this fashion, we make ourselves look as bad as the terrorists we are fighting.

I say just cut their heads off and be done with it (sarcasm).

So, if someone hasn't been in a combat zone they aren't allowed to express an opinion on whether American soldiers should uphold the rule of law and set a higher standard than the *enemy*?

You're not making much sense, Red.

(I love your screen name, btw!)

She is not a combat vet...she never saw combat. She did the behavior, she needs to own it but she is a weak, white trash loser.

@horklet,

Last time I checked, we didnt illegally invade a foreign country either. Just because you and I dont agree with the POTUS and congress on why we went into Iraq doesnt make it illegal. Was the truth stretched why we went in, yes; but Saddam DID have weapons of mass destruction with his chemical warfare stockpiles. He DID use them against Iran and his own countrymen. He DID get what was coming to him as well as his sons. Will Iraq be a better place? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think it took away resources and our attention from Afghantistan (where my son is currently serving), yes. And Afghanistan should have been our focus all along. But that doesnt make it illegal. The UN Security Council didnt say it was or wasnt when they debated it for two days. They took a neutral path. Although that point is still debated to this day on whether it was or wasnt depends on your mindset. IMO of course.

You have no idea what you are talking about, Red.

Thank you, Al, for your service to the nation and reminding us the England is a sick exception.

@Jodeman -- you have twisted the facts beyond belief. Yea, he did have some weapons, and we know this because WE GAVE THEM TO HIM (which he used on his own people). As long as he did what we wanted, we were okay with that, and didn't give a hoot about what he was doing to the Iraqi people.

But, he started his own agenda (invading Kuwait), and we didn't like that. He threatened to cut off the oil. We didn't like that, either. So we fabricated some story about how he was a "threat" to the US (which he was not) so we could invade their country, kill him and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and seize control of their oil (which made a very few people in this country obscenely rich). And, by the way, whatever happened to "the oil will pay for the war"?

This was a disaster from day 1. The only thing we managed to do was lose our credibility as a beacon of freedom around the world, and showed them that we don't behave much better than the people we point our fingers at. Not to mention the American lives lost so war profiteers could stuff their pockets.

So, here we are... left to pick of the pieces of once healthy and vibrant young men and women whose lives have been torn asunder, with nothig left to comfort them. What a waste for some, and a big fat pay day for others.

MSG go get a CAT scan...looks like TBI is what you got.

If you've seen her in talking head interviews, it's clear that she's half a bubble off. Having said that, it's a strong likelihood that she was following orders of her commanders, and one of those commanders essentially supported that position.

The true culprits in the torture abuse scandal were, and are, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. It was Rumsfeld that sidestepped the military interrogators, withdrew them, and instilled private interrogators that tortured these people.

I was glad to hear Pres. Obama state in his inaugural address, "America does not torture." Well, at least we don't torture any more. If we use the tactics of our enemies concerning torture, we are no better.

Ms. England needs some help, and we hope she gets the mental and physical attention she clearly needs. It's sad, and her child is innocent in all of it.

@Jodeman, you are the reason the world thinks Americans are dumb. And in your case they would be right.

It is better to be thought a fool and then open your mouth and be proved a fool. Said another way - you are strong and wrong. Said another way, you are talking loud, but ain't saying sh!t.

She was a jailer, not a combatant on the front lines. All she did was sit around smoking and have an affair with her married supervisor. Sleeping with your boss and with a married man are both illegal in the Military and the court of moral values.

post #5 "Oh my! We have people that have never been in combat commenting on Ms. England's behavior! Those same people have cut the heads off non-combatants just because they were Americans! Its war! terrible things happen in war. These Iraqis were probably embarassed and nothing more! When you people have served in a combat zone then perhaps you can comment on this young woman"

If we are not allowed to comment on this woman's behavior because we have not been in her shoes, then by your own logic, you are not allowed to comment on how the Iraqi men must have felt because you were not in their shoes. When you have bombs dropped on your city and it is blown to smithereens, and raids at night resulting in the killing of innocent women and children, then you can comment on how an Iraqi feels. We all know at this point that many innocent Iraqis were detained, many more innocent killed.So just because they were detained does not mean they chopped off anyone's head. "When you people have served in a combat zone then perhaps you can comment on this young woman." How about "when you people have been an Iraqi citizen during this war, then perhaps you can comment on this young man" It goes both ways. You can't just have it one way. If you are allowed to comment on situations you have never been in, then I can too.

"these Iraqis were probably embarassed and nothing more"

using your own rules and your own words that you stated in your post, you have no right to make this comment.

Don't be a hypocrite, we all have the right to post our opinions about anything.

The Iraq invasion did huge damage to our national psyche. People are use WMD and terrorism arguments to justify the invasion so they can feel better about doing it. This effect of cognative dissonance makes us worse as a population. Those arguments are not supportable at all; they make no sense at all. None of us little people will ever know all the real reasons (as with the Kennedy assassination), but oil and our spheres of influence are definitely main drivers.

America is no longer the trusted "beacon of hope" for the rest of the world, which is very sad. That was quite a position of trust that we found ourselves in, and we blew it.

being in the military doesn't provide any additional rights that others don't have.

Sean - Go over there and start shooting at suspected enemy combatants and see how far you get.

This coming from a dude with a monkey head.

I think I saw him in "Planet of the Apes"

What exactly does her appearance have to do with the issue. Why can't women be judged by their actions without the obligatory "how she looks " being injected.

Just saying

Sean.....she is serving her sentence and that is all that is required of her, so go find another cause to cry about.....

Sean....it is you who should be embarrassed, because apparently her sentence for taking some inappropriate pictures is insufficient and you would also like to send her to your re-education camp until she believes exactly the same things that a fascist like you believes......please, try to grow up......

Sean...you stated that she wasn't being held accountable for her actions, right?.....well, she's in prison serving time for her actions, so how thick could you possibly be?......maybe we should drive bamboo shoots under her fingernails until she acknowledges that she feels bad about these murderous Iraqi's caught on a battlefied in action against American forces being forced to take what amounts to fraternity hazing pictures......and I don't know where you live, but NYC happens to be the greatest city in the country for many things, except the leftists politicians.....

nycguy @14 - 14.6 You keep writing that she "is" serving her time or she's "in prison." That is not true.

The article states she is living with her parents and 7- year-old son. FYI, she was paroled on March 1, 2007, after having served 521 days. She remained on parole through Sept 2008, when her 3 year sentence was complete. Other than that, I agree with Sean's comments.

Sean and Pog....you two idiots are examples of why our country is on the decline, now go back to playing your video games and texting your boyfriends.....thanks...

I don't have to visit southern Florida to know it is hot in August there.

Sean - Please re-read my comment with a little bit of comprehension. I said "In no way am I defending her". To break it down for you, it means I am not defending her.

piglet - Your weather analogy is funny. Knowing what the weather is like somewhere, is similar to knowing what war is like in the Middle East.

But I did notice that there are a number of posts from people who have been there, and don't see many of them defending her.

severed head - As I stated to Sean, I am in no way defending her. I guess what I actually wrote was "I absolutely defend her actions". lol. People really do read what they want to read. It's like talking to 5 year olds.

WOW

You said it slick. Only liberals understand that behaving as your enemies makes you one of them. Sick of redneck right-wing folks that are not really in touch with the truth.

not to mention it violates rules that as a country we agreed to when dealing with enemy combatants. how are we morally superior to these people if we do things like this? it's funny how the religous right are the ones who are ok with sexual abuses like this and other atrocities as long as they are done to "the enemy".

Tyler.... Here's some more info on those WMD's that should interest you...

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop
weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we
face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since
1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to
develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

So please, when you speak of IRAQ and WMD... the rhetoric started long before Bush got into the White House. I DO agree that we should NOT have gone into Iraq.. the man was contained and if he slaughtered his own people.. that's not my problem... let them revolt and have civil war.

The same as we should have stayed out of Lybia and hopefully will continue to stay out of Syria.

Why don't you go write a book and stop taking up space on a "comment" board.

XD - I don't see anything definitive in your post. Every cited comment was supposition, whether uttered by Republican or Democrat.

Still no evidence. We invaded for other reasons, and we have to accept that reality.

Robert...

We invaded for other reasons,

That statement is itself a supposition. It was NOT the stated reason for our invasion. Regardless of what either of us believe to be the true reason is irrelevant. You nor I were involved with any discussions regarding an invasion, so neither of us knows the true reason. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous at best.

Jrae..... I was just pointing out to Tyler that the WMD that people note were never found, were in fact being spoken of LONG before Bush became President and by opposing party members during his Presidency.

Yes, the Clinton administration talked about it.

But who acted upon it?

Sean... because "most" don't have the same problem doesn't mean "everyone" didn't have them.

I don't know how much time you've spent in a war zone, nor do I care, but I can empathize with any and all that have. I know what they have and continue to go through.

Yeah XDm9mm. I can empathize with people spending time in a war zone as well and it's no excuse for treating detainees shamefully.

Been there, done that. Still think she's scum.

Saw a few similar things in Viet Nam, and I think the people that did it there were scum, too.

If we just keep shrugging our shoulders and saying "Well, she was at war, what do you expect" then we are no better than the people we were over there to fight in the first place. I thought we were Americans, who hold ourselves to a higher standard.

I never said what she did was right, it's not.

But I can't condone the POS on here comparing embarrassing an enemy combatant to torture.

Sean... what is the job I volunteered to do?

Come on genius, please tell me what my job is. I KNOW I never indicated it anywhere so you're pulling those suppositions out of your rectal opening... Did you every notice how close the spelling of supposition is to suppository? Did you ever think of a reason why? I guess YOUR supposition is a good starting point.

there is a difference between a detainee and a convicted enemy combatant. These were detainees at the time of these pictures, so anyone in these posts referring to them as enemy combatans, how do you know they were? Which ones turned out to be convicted and found guilty, which ones were found innocent? There must be some info about who was who out there on the internet. But none of them were convicted yet at the time the pics were taken, so much for innocent until proven guilty, let's just ressurect the witch-trial days.

Chuck - just for my own information - are you a democrat?

mike.... there are good and bad in every endeavor. Police, firefighters, pilots, doctors, lawyers, accountants, teachers, priests.. need I go on?

You're painting with a very broad brush. I also know many in uniform that have multiple masters and at least one the has a PhD (as an enlisted person)

XD....No kidding. Did you even read what I just wrote? Save the honors for those that serve honorably. I specifically did NOT paint everyone in the military with a broad brush. I said "just like society at large"..... Yes there are Phds, military doctors, lawyers, etc....and there are brainless bigoted grunts too. Unfortunately some of those brainless bigoted grunts feel entitled to hero status for having enlisted and turned a wrench for three years.

Mike.... my apologies....

I read your post, but honestly was distracted by others in the area and probably didn't pay close attention to what I read, or just missed some points.

Mike: Thanks for pointing that out BUT honoring the multitudes who preform a service, it seems, you would have no intentions of doing for your Country and trying to suggest it's "a lot" is without fact and is sadly misrepresenting the truth. The "vast" majority of American Service personnel act in the most honorable why, of course their deeds seem to go unnoticed by the Media and public alike. Entering the Military Service is, in fact, a great why to increase your ability to find employment and receive a education after your enlistment. The idea of giving something before asking for everything from your Country seems a little more worthwhile than setting behind your computer pointing out the bad apples, which has the taint of envy? I served my Country in a War that upon my and those others who returned were judged, most notably, by one incident, just like you are doing! I know of heroism beyond belief, compassion that would make a normal person cry, honor without exception to the ideals of this Country but thank you for pointing out the bad apples...carry on!!!!

JD...please buddy. I understand the merits of enlisting. My once high-achieving brother-in-law was completely screwed up on pot at the age of 18 - until he joined the Air Force. He tested out well and sat in the same cubicle writing computer code for his entire hitch. But he did nothing heroic. He joined because he was desperate. Truly nice guy - but he doesn't deserve "accolades" for what he did.

As for being jealous or feeling like I'm lacking - that pisses me off pal. As for sitting behind a computer - I run a design company from behind this computer that employed multiple people until the Recession crushed me. I kept employees on the payroll foregoing my own income for way too long and put myself and my family in huge hole for the sake of my younger employees. You ever do something like that? Didn't think so. Life's different out here in the real world where you don't get medals and glory for doing a job and having a title. You don't find work, you don't get paid. No retirement and bennies either brother. Save the accolades for the heroic who truly sacrifice in the line of fire. Too many others are simply doing a job in a uniform and glomming on to the pastiche of their truly heroic counterparts.

Thanks Sean. You spelled it out perfectly.