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Mark Dye / Reuters
Dharun Ravi, a Rutgers University student charged with bias intimidation, stands up after the jury leaves to begin deliberations in the Superior Court of New Jersey in Middlesex County, New Brunswick, NJ. March 14.
Dharun Ravi, the former Rutgers student convicted of a hate crime for using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate, says he doesn't regret refusing a plea deal.
Ravi spoke to the New Jersey Star-Ledger on Wednesday after being convicted last Friday of all 15 counts of privacy invasion, investigation tampering, and bias intimidation in a case that exploded when his former roommate, Tyler Clementi, 18, jumped off the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 22, 2010, after finding out that Ravi saw him kissing another man and appeared to encourage others to watch through a camera on his computer.
Indian-born Ravi, 20, could face 10 years in prison when he's sentenced on May 21 and be deported after he's finished serving his time. In his two-hour exclusive interview with the Star-Ledger, he told the newspaper, "The verdict actually made me feel energized. We (his family, friends and attorneys) will keep going."
"I’m never going to regret not taking the plea," Ravi told the Star-Ledger, published on NJ.com on Thursday. "If I took the plea, I would have had to testify that I did what I did to intimidate Tyler and that would be a lie. I won’t ever get up there and tell the world I hated Tyler because he was gay, or tell the world I was trying to hurt or intimidate him because it’s not true."
'I'm very sorry about Tyler': Read full story on NJ.com
Ravi did not testify in his own defense in the month-long trial, in which jurors were urged in summations by defense lawyer Steven Altman to dismiss Ravi's actions as those of a foolish child trying to impress others rather than a bully who harbored a prejudice against gays.
Clementi checked Ravi's Twitter account 38 times in the two days before he killed himself, the prosecution told the jury.
Ravi admitted in his interview with the newspaper that he was immature as a college freshman
"But I wasn’t biased," Ravi said. "I didn’t act out of hate and I wasn’t uncomfortable with Tyler being gay."
'It's hard to form hate'
Ravi said he feels as though he's been portrayed unfairly. From his family home in Plainsboro, N.J., Ravi told the newspaper, "My high school has all kinds of kids. There were a lot of Indians, Chinese, Korean kids, some Hispanic, white kids. It’s hard to form hate when you grow up around so many different kinds of kids."
He said there were few openly gay kids in his town, but he met some at college.
"One of my friends had a gay roommate and I met a gay kid I liked a lot at orientation. They were cool. It was no big deal. Now there’s a verdict out there that says I hate gays. The jury has decided they know what is going on in my mind; they can tell you what you think."
Ravi's friends knew him as a computer whiz, and he admitted he was showing off, he told the paper.
"I never really thought about what it would mean to Tyler," he said. "I know that’s wrong, but that’s the truth."
He said he was frustrated that Tyler couldn't hear how sorry he is.
Former Rutgers student convicted in webcam case
"I texted an apology and when he didn’t answer, I e-mailed him. I told him I didn’t want him to feel pressure to have to move and that we could work things out," he said.
The text he was referring to - sent after Tyler was headed to his suicide jump - was shown in court.
"I'm very sorry about Tyler," he said. "I have parents and a little brother, and I can only try to imagine how they feel. But I want the Clementis to know I had no problem with their son. I didn’t hate Tyler and I knew he was okay with me. I wanted to talk to his parents, but I was afraid. I didn’t know what to say.
"At first, I actually thought I could be helpful because as far as I knew, I was the last one to see him alive."
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I wonder if he'll feel the same way once he's actually behind bars?
So I hope all those posters on Newsvine who said Ravi has a right to protect his belongings with his camera can now admit that was not his motivation.
I have to say, I honestly don't think this guy deserves jail time. His "victim" was openly gay. Why would he care? Other than pissed that he was spied on. I mean if one of my old roommates had spied on me making love to my girlfriend, I would have been plenty pissed off, but not kill myself!
He apologized to him as well. BEFORE he committed suicide. Everybody is so quick to call people homophobic and hateful nowadays. We are creating a class of people with special protections and that isn't right at all.
Take hate crimes. First who is it to say what was going through someones head at the time of an attack. Secondly, I could 'hate' you just for popping off at the mouth and being an a$$hole. So if someone beat you up, and you were straight, because they hated you (how most fights happen) should they get a lesser punishment than if they beat up someone who was gay? HELL NO!
The constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Hate crime laws create a special protected class of people. If you mess with them, then you get more time. How is that fair and just?
So let me get this straight; man vidoetapes homosexual kiss, and because it was homosexual (and only because) he could be sentenced to 10 years in prison.
Lets say the same fellow videotapes a heterosexual kiss, and one of the kissy's commits suicide, would we even be having this conversation?
The convoluted nightmare that "hate crimes" injects into our judicial system is beyond belief.
The fact that so many would post about the "fairness" or the need for more punishment of this guy is a testiment to how wacky we have become.
This verdict was political correctness run amok. It was nothing more than a childish college prank. The extremists in the gay community are the ones that pushed this whole thing and made it out to be some hateful attack on gays. If Clementi had not killed himself, this would likely have never even made it into court. Even though they were not supposed to consider it because it had nothing to do with the charges, it is pretty obvious that the jury convicted Ravi because Clementi committed suicide. The real story is that the suicide had nothing to do with what Ravi did. Clementi was emotionally trouble because his own mother could not accept him being gay. She is some hard core religious type that refused to accept her own son for what he was. This is what drove Clementi to suicide and now Ravi is going to pay the price for Clementi's heartless bitch of a mother. The idea that Clementi was pushed to suicide by Ravi's actions is a myth, which was strongly promoted by Clementi's mother because she could not own up to the fact that she pushed her own son to suicide. Records show that the last person he spoke to before he killed himself was his mother. Text records also show that what happened with Ravi was not the reason and that, while being pissed about it, Clementi did not make as big a deal about it as the gay community, the mother, and the prosecutor who was out to make a name for himself.
Ravi is guilty of a cruel prank and stupidity after the fact. This is not a hate crime. I am beginning to get a real case of non tolerance for this protected class.
What a joke our justice system has become! PC BS, this was not a hate crime.
This ill conceived verdict goes to show you just how much power the liberal media has on our liberal courts.
Its no longer just the facts of evidence, its forced action on the masses. People please.
If I had had the chance to be on this jury, the hate crime BS would not fly period.
I would have found his other actions like evidence tampering to be against the law.
Hey, this gay-basher wants to lie to himself! Is it a wonder why he was found guilty?
Hope his sentence in jail is as long as it possibly can be.
You mean like Christians and their tax free status even though they actively participate in political forums and elections? How about not being able to discriminate based on someone's religious choices? You're right, creating special protections isn't right.
You're absolutely right that it's a nightmare that "hate crimes" have to be interjected into our judicial system. But have you ever asked yourself why it needs doing? Could it be that like civil rights laws, the judiciary looks the other way when it regards certain people and crimes against them? Could it be that the judicial system doesn't exactly have a pristine history of treating minority groups fairly, much less how the ordinary citizenry treats minorities? It would be great to not have to have hate crime legislation, the sad fact is, certain crimes get looked the other way because of who the victim is. I'm pretty sure Tyler's parents don't feel it's convoluted nor did Tyler.
Yes, a childish prank that went very awry. Do you think as many people would have paid attention to the tweets had it been just some girl and guy making out? You don't think the fact that they were gay was somehow a draw to the show? I agree with you that Tyler's mother is a part of this. However, Ravi was not convicted for the murder or death of Tyler. He was convicted of using Tyler's sexuality as a way of causing harm to him. The guy that was with Tyler testified that people were smirking and laughing and he felt uncomfortable going back to the dorms. Not only did Ravi do this once, but twice.
For those of you who want to wail and moan about hate crime law, stop and think why it had to be crafted in the first place. How many of us gays have been beaten and harassed because of our sexuality and to have it dismissed? Rush Limbaugh called a young lady a slut and whore for her view on birth control. He plays off that he didn't pay a price, but he did. In this country, what you say and do does carry consequences. And, how often has someone committed a crime and then said they weren't guilty or tried to make themselves look better in the eyes of society. If you dislike hate crime legislation so much, I suggest you look to the less informed and ignorant among yourselves and tell them to stop their behavior.
One final example of how stupidity causes law to be formed. A woman spilled hot coffee on herself from McDonalds and sued because the container didn't say "caution" on it. She won. Now we have laws that say cups need to be labeled. When stupid people do stupid things, we get laws out of them. People have beat, killed, and harassed gays with no consequence. That's why we have these laws. Stop blaming the victims!
Stop blaming the victims now!
Tod-2791955 - It isn't the same situation because heterosexuals don't face persecution like homosexuals face. Ravi claims that it was not his intention to intimidate Clementi and I believe him. However, in the eyes of the law, his intentions don't matter only actions. As to his degree of guilt or what the punishment should be is another matter. I don't believe he should be sentence to 10 years. Clementi faced a lifetime of persecution and harassment. Ravi was just happened to be the last.
I think we all have been treated poorly in some way or another (too fat, too thin, gay, bisexual, white, black, hispanic, etc.) and I'll be the first to say - I certainly wouldn't kill myself if someone recorded me having relations and showed other people. I would sue them, or find another way to express how I felt. If I killed myself every time someone was inappropriate with me, oh man! You can't blame other people for someone else's choice to commit suicide. There's definitely more to the story. If this boy had been happy with himself from the beginning, he wouldn't have even thought to do something so selfish and impulsive (suicide) at all.
People, old and young, need to think about the consequences of what they post. This young man may not have hated but what he did was certainly malicious. Far too many people hurt others maliciously and then say oh, I didn't mean it. Posting is even more public than saying hurtful thinks to someone's face. There should be consequences- just like libel.
Tod, Christian, JS & Milo} You guys all make very good points. When this first happened and all hell broke loose I remember thinking "I wonder if there would be this much flap over a male & female being filmed". A whole lot of folks didn't like my views, but more agreed. When did this happen? That the average Joe had to walk around on eggshells and utter politically correct phrases. It's a damned shame is what it is. Enough is enough.
Tylers death is tragic, however he is a victim of his own decision.
Gay people have been having to do this for decades so as to not get beat up. Sucks, doesn't it!
Yup. Let's blame the victim. That works, right? What decision was that then? To jump? I agree with that. To be gay? Nope. You don't get to choose this. And as far as anyone using this as justification for feeling self righteous, shame on you.
Christian
If hate crime legislation is wrong, why does it make sense to have "stand your ground" laws in Florida and 23 other states. "Self defense" was already a valid defense for a murder charge. Stand your ground creates a special class, does it not?
Hate crime legislation is valid because the person who would target victims based on race, sexual orientation or some other characteristic is a danger to a larger segment of the population than a criminal who targets a single person. Therefore the criminal is a greater danger to society. The law does not create a special class as much as the criminal targets a special class. There is a difference.
I also take issue with your "I would not take my life in this situation, therefore the victim was an idiot for jumping off of the bridge". People respond differently to a given situation and everyone who does not respond as you do is not necessarily wrong - just different. I read comments nearly every day by people who respond to stories about crimes with their own wishes to kill other human beings or to buy more or bigger guns for protection. I don't believe in the death penalty and I won't own a gun. Who is wrong? Who gets to decide?
And Ravi's.
And now Ravi will have to live with Tyler's and his own decision which pressed a person to commit suicide.
It's a tragedy for both, but that's acting stupidly and without regard for another person will get you.
Sounds like young Dharun has some learning to do. He could have admitted he did the deed and moved on with his life. Or, he could hold to his 'principles' and take his chances. Either way (plea or conviction) he has a rap as a hate crimer. The difference is that now he has to give up some of his best years. Does he really think he is going to prevail on appeal?
Maybe his time behind bars will help him put things into their proper perspective.
Sorry rosS, I'm not buying any of what you say. When was the last time droves of people were burned, gassed, hung and rapped because of their sexual orientation? I'm talking in droves, not the once in a while case.
I live in a large Metropolis and I get scared sometimes sitting on a train with crowd of well-to-do, drunk, belligerent but conservatively dressed homosexual men. I was caller a n1**er bitch by one of them (yes, they were white). I could have jumped off of the train, but I have been going through that sort of things for far more then a few decades.
Sorry, I got off track......anyway, STOP Trolling.
No doubt your going to feel "ENERGIZED" pal..when you drop the soap in prison!
He's a special kind of stupid.
Could have plead out with no prison time. His leaving will open a spot at Rutgers.
Ross and Skup,
If you can prove to me that homosexuality is not a choice (clinically and scientifically) then I might at least buy the whole "minority status" argument. As it stands right now there is no evidence supporting that notion, and some evidence that it is a choice (percentages of children raised by homosexual parents who turn out homosexual). Ask true minorities if they agree that homosexuals should have "minority status".
Either view, I still do not beleive that "hate crimes" are a just, or constitutional, use of our laws.
I stand by my argument; why would a video of a heterosexual kiss, causing the same outcome not recieve the same (if any) punishment?
So, basically, sit down and shut up? Kind of what you went through? Which I am disgusted to hear. But I'm so glad that you use that one experience to define all of us. It's a shame how one small group of a minority is the cause of all that minority being judged, isn't it? And I'm not trolling refuting the stupidity and drivel being spouted against gays and lesbians or the despicable thought that this guy should get off scott free because they don't agree with hate crime legislation. Let's not forget, he was convicted of witness and evidence tampering.
The MAIN thing I was looking for, and did not see when I read this article, was some sort of explanation WHY he did it...if he didn't have a problem with Tyler and had no issues with him being gay, WHY would he have recorded him at all?
I truly think Ravi got what he deserves, not because he felt bad about what he did after he realized it traumatized his roommate, but because he still hasn't come to admit WHY he did it.
In regard to the issue of what the results would have been if it was a heterosexual couple who were recorded...I had a girl in my high school class my senior year who came from a traditional hispanic family, accuse my best friend of raping her, because she was caught having sex with him in his truck by some people who knew her family. My friend took an overdose of Phenobarbital-her reaction to the situation was unreasonable, but his was nearly devastating. Luckily, he survived.
Prove that it's not. There is more scientific evidence that homosexuality is a part of every other mammal group than not. But even if there was a gene or some other means, then people like you would be after a "cure" to manipulate that gene. There is never enough proof. There is never enough evidence.
The same would not happen with a heterosexual kiss because it wouldn't be motivated by using their sexuality as a base of causing them humiliation and harm. But I guarantee you that if a gay person did something like this, there would be a huge group out their claiming how sick and wrong we were and that we needed to be stopped.
And finally, you don't think things like rape should be special categories of a crime then? Because that seems to benefit mostly women. After all, a physical assault is a physical assault, right?
this is not germaine, and besides, it is RIDICULOUS.
For example: Religious preference is a CHOICE. It is a CHOICE that people make, and change, all throughout their lives. But, all Americans are protected by non-discrimination and minority civil rights laws because of that religious CHOICE. If you are a member of a minority religion, your CHOICE is protected from non-discrimination AND it is also protected by Hate Crime Legislation.
So, whether or not something is a CHOICE is not germaine. a religious CHOICE is something that is already a constitutional pretection.
NEXT...
Military Man,
You have said it far better than I could have. Thank you.
Bernitch:
Religious belief does not a minority create, so I don't get your point.
Ross:
I don't have to prove its not. Those wanting to be given "minority status" do, the same way a true minority does.
"There is more scientific evidence that homosexuality is a part of every other mammal group than not"
Is just a statement, not evidence!! Do some research, the only physical study I know of that even attempts to show it is not a choice was done at UCSD concerning the hypothalmus, and has been discounted due to the samples being homosexual men who died of aids, and therefore having a smaller hypothalmus
Since when does a minority has to prove a biologic connection to their minority status? And yes, if you are going to deny rights to a group of people and say they don't matter the burden of proof is on you to prove your theory. Millions of people who are born gay suggest your theory is bunk. We don't have to prove who we are. We just are. Just because you can't "see" doesn't make it not true.
And no, it's not a statement. There have been many studies done that show homosexuality exists in nature. Funny thing is, only humans go out of their way to discriminate against their gay and lesbian counterparts. You don't see gay lions beating the crap out of the gay one. Or the gay dolphin being ejected from the pod. This is a strangely human mammal trait.
Okay, so instead of quoting all of the people I am responding to, I'll just write it out.
It is a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE when we try and GUESS a persons intent. Say someone were to call my GF a whore and I kick his ass. Now let's say he just so happened to be gay. All of a sudden that makes it a hate crime which I can now serve a substantially longer sentence for, just because some prosecutor or the man himself decides MY intent was against his sexuality.
Now turn that around. Say he kicks my ass, can I then turn around and say he beat me up because I was straight? That he should serve more time, because it was a hate crime against MY sexuality? Under the current law, no I can't. Therefore I am not as protected as a GLBT person would be. There in lies the unconstitutionality.
Regardless of the crime, the punishment should be the same. If you assault someone, be they straight or part of the GLBT community, you should serve the same amount of time. A crime is a crime is a crime! You aren't "special" because you are gay. Nor am I "special" because I am straight. If we want everybody to be treated equally, then everybody should be equal under the eyes of the law!
If someone is going around beating up people because they are gay, well then they should serve time for assault. If they are a repeat offender, then the punishment should be more severe. AS IT IS NOW!
And I don't care what you say. You CANNOT read minds. Nobody can. And nobody, unless it's spelled out, can tell me or you, what our intent was.
Anybody who commits an act of violence is committing an act of hate. You don't assault or murder someone out of love.
Bernitch,
By the way: I like black licorice, about 10% of us do. When I mention that I love black licorice I am scorned and humiliated. I believe, I should get minority status. Is that ridiculous? Can you prove that black licorice is not a choice for me? A choice that I make just so that I can get minority status?
You may spout off about Germaine and ridiculous, but many of us believe that the entire legislated hate crime nightmare is beyond ridiculous.
Christian: Common sense is a tough sell on this issue. Emotion seems to overule logic.
Christian,
While I completely agree that it shouldn't matter, a crime is a crime is a crime, the reason for hate crime laws have a reason for being there.
There have been too many occurrences in our history where a nod and wink and handshake have meant that certain groups of people don't get the justice they deserve. How many crimes went unpunished in the civil rights era? How many women were under represented because they "deserved it?" Our history is such that until certain laws are put into place, minority groups are often the target of hate and crime and are left both victim and the accused.
This is a pattern that our country has and unfortunately, there are people out there that abuse people and expect to be unpunished for it.
Gay lions and gay dolphins, really?
Ross, you really should spend some time in other countries.
"This is a pattern that our country has and unfortunately, there are people out there that abuse people and expect to be unpunished for it."
Tod,
So you are comparing human love and companionship with liking licorice? Is there a big anti licorice group out there that advocate you not be allowed to marry or in some places to solely exist? Does liking licorice keep you from enjoying protections from your family and your property? No? Then sorry, your example is flawed.
Trying to reduce gays and lesbians to the lowest common factor doesn't work.
Last time I checked, we weren't using Iran, Iraq, Uganda, etc as a bases for American law. Further more, this is a discussion about American law and American life. Simply because another country decides to be more violent doesn't make our less violent any better or right.
rossj503
While I abhor that those things have happened and I would be livid if someone targeted my GF and I because we are an interracial couple. I wouldn't expect that they serve anymore time than they would if they just thought I was an a$$hole.
Hate crime laws don't need to be on the books. What needs to happen is the laws need to be enforced equally. If there are winks and nods going on, then judges, lawyers, and prosecutors need to be removed from the bench/loose their license to practice law.
And if that stuff is really going on. Which I'll bet bottom dollar it goes on quite a bit in the South. Then a hate crime law, or special protection law, won't matter much will it?
The gay community has recently used the "equal protection under the law" in our constitution to try and obtain gay marriage. I don't see how the same community can try and ignore that part of our constitution when it's inconvenient or doesn't serve their purpose.
Creating hate crime laws segregates us even further by creating "special" or "different" classes of people. That's completely backwards from where we need to be going. If we all want to be seen as equals, then we need to push for that. Not making one group of people or another different as seen by the eyes of the law.
While our system and peoples minds aren't perfect yet. We need to keep striving to make that so. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing when they drafted the constitution.
And to wrap up...
A hateful person will most likely always be a hateful person. Studies have shown time and time again, that fear of long prison sentences doesn't deter those who would commit a crime anyways.
Spending the money we would all spend as taxpayers to keep these criminals in jail for the "special" crime they committed on educating people, would go a lot further and have a more lasting impact on the future.
Christian,
Hare crime laws aren't just for gays. They are people of color, faith, etc. Even interracial couples. I'm not sure how this gets turned into a "gay rights" thing when it covers so many different people and situations. It even covers Christians and people of every other faith.
Christian
By saying that "A hateful person will most likely always be a hateful person. Studies have shown time and time again, that fear of long prison sentences doesn't deter those who would commit a crime anyways." you are agreeing with those with whom you argue. Those who commit hate crimes really are more dangerous and, therefore, their crimes more serious than felons who commit "regular" crimes.
Do you not understand that lynching an African American just because of his race is more serious than your average murder? That the hate that drives such a criminal puts an entire race at risk? That serious deterrents must be in place in order to minimize those crimes?
By the way, if you get in a fight with someone because they "insulted your girlfriend" and not because that person is gay IT IS NOT A HATE CRIME. But you can be sure that the prosecutor will be gathering evidence before trial to determine your past actions towards gays in order to determine your true motives. You could expect questions to witnesses that ask "has Christian used derogatory terms to describe homosexuals" and "has Christian confronted gay men and women because of his medieval attitudes"?
A murder is a murder unless done in self defense. I think all "additional" hate crimes should be abolished. Not necessarily just "Gay" hate crimes.
Now, that said, I think that specific only "hate" crimes, say burning a cross on someones front yard. Or doing some other horribly offensive hateful thing to someone should definitely stay on the books as a hate crime. However, if you are already being punished for a crime under an existing statute, you shouldn't tack on another offense just because the crime was hateful.
All crime against another human being is done either out of anger, jealousy, greed, or hate. All of which make a person dangerous. A hateful person is no more dangerous than someone with anger problems.
We cannot create an extra protected class of citizens. End of story. It is unconstitutional.
Christian
This is not about a "special class of citizens" as much as it is a special kind of crime -a crime that puts more people at risk because of the nature of the criminal. I suppose you believe that a serial murderer is "just another murderer". Your statement that "A hateful person is no more dangerous than someone with anger problems" is not only wrong - it is irrational.
By definition a serial killer has killed more than one person. Obviously they have "proven" themselves to be a serious danger to the public at large.
And I don't think my statement is irrational at all. A person with anger problems is just as dangerous as a person with a hate problem. Though both have the ability to be rehabilitated. Maybe I might be okay with a special provision with hate crimes, or anger problem crimes, that require them to attend treatment as part of their rehabilitation. Unfortunately we in America only like to warehouse our criminals instead of rehabilitate them.
And you can ask any lawyer, hate crime laws do very much create class of people with special protection. With today's juries being about as smart as a box of rocks and a lot of overzealous prosecutors, more people will be found guilty of said hate crimes even though their crime had nothing to do with hate.
No, they don't.
You clearly don't understand what hate crimes laws are or how they're implemented. And it's very clear that you don't understand that the class "sexual orientation" means straight, gay, and everything in between.
Your statement makes no more sense than to say that laws about 1st degree murder give murder victims "special protection" not afforded by laws regarding manslaughter.
Should have took a plea, and admitted you did wrong!
Why? If you would lie (which he says he would have been doing had he plead guilty) just to avoid personal inconvenience, what else will you lie about?
Going to jail for up to 10 years is a little more than personal inconvenience. I could see pleading guilty to something I didn't do to stay out of jail for 10 years.
It's not a lie, it's a plea deal. They go down every day. If you aren't smart enough to figure that out, then take a few years in the pokey to think about it. He is nothing short of a moron to take this ridiculous and pointless "stand on principle" or whatever he fantasizes about his own greatness.
@GTy -- So you're out of jail and a liar. That's a personal choice. I can just imagine Nathan Hale saying, "My only regret is that you guys think I am a spy. My loyalties have always been with good King George."
@Ray Butt -- Wrong! it's a lie and a plea deal. You present a false choice because the two are not mutually exclusive. If you aren't smart enough to figure that out, then I suggest you think twice before calling others morons. In addition, a "stand on principle" is only ridiculous and pointless if you don't have the same principles. See above.
Then why don't you volunteer to take his place in prison so that he can stay on the streets and still have his pride? This jerk felt that anti-gay public sentment would prevail and that he would get off scott free. Surprise!!!!!!! 10 years and then the boot.
right. because the guilty person ALWAYS admits the truth at a trial...
Ravi, I'm sure, is going to express, openly, the hate he felt and still feels.
sure thing!!
Yes, because he's so honest. Like witness tampering. Like evidence tampering. He's a real saint and martyr this guy.
Why is everyone SO ready to dismiss the fact he was convicted on 14 other charges and they encompassed less than honest behavior, ie lying.
Some of you want to believe him so badly so you can justify his actions for your own personal comfort and peace of mind so you don't have to feel guilty that your thoughts and actions promote this behavior!
Just to note: The other defendant, the girl who had co-conspired to harass Clementi, took the plea deal.
The plea deal had a condition built into it that, after she serves her community service and provided she remains out of trouble, the charges would be dropped. Her criminal record would be clean.
My understanding is the same was offered to Ravi (with the exception that he'd have longer community service.) So you decide not to take it on principle? I can get that (even if I think you're deluding yourself)... but you've already been kicked out of school and your name is already dirt - the plea wouldn't see you /losing/ anything, but gaining the assurance of no jail time. It would've allowed you to a) acknowledge your role in the affair; b) earn a little bit of public sentiment, seeing as you will have technically served your 'time' for the incident; c) get on with your life - enroll in another school.
If it was not a hate crime, why did he do it? I still haven't seen anything to explain that. I read where he was "Showing off" but that's not an explanation of WHY. If he didn't have a problem with Tyler's sexuality, he would have had NO reason to have done it.
EXACTLY! jesus h nipple, why other people cannot get that simple fact is amazing. it's not like he had this tendency to film all of his straight friends having sex, and send it out all over the Net for every one to watch and embarrass. This was a spectacle for him to denigrate the victim because the victim was gay. He even said it during the fimling "it's a dude with another dude..."
I can't believe people are intentionally STUPID
Who cares ... someone is dead because of your insensitivity, immaturity and callousness. Go back to India ... the US doesn't need you, or the planet for that matter.
Tyler is not dead because of what Ravi did. If you actually read more of what the real story is, it's much more likely that Tyler is dead because his mom was unaccepting of his being gay due to her religious convictions. If you do some research, you'll see that she was the last person he talked to before he decided to kill himself, that he posted on a gay website about what happened with Ravi and laughed it off when someone said it could be a 'hate crime'.
What Ravi did was insensitive and wrong, but someone is dead because they committed suicide - not because Ravi killed him.
As much as it a horrible situation that someone's life was lost, Tyler decided based on his own shame, to take his life. Ravi didn't make him do anything. Tyler made his own choice; imagine what that must do to his family. He decided to give up on life and not working through any obstacles of being a gay man. There are many people who are ashamed and scared however, they get through and he should have tried. You never know him taking his life may set an example for some other young person who decides now suicide is the only way out. However I do think that Ravi, will have the rest of his life to think about what he did do, and it wasn't murder.
this must be "christian day" on Newsvine!
You are assuming he was ashamed but more likely he did what he did because he felt harassed and unloved. But nice way to turn someone's pain and anguish into something more palatable for you to digest so you can feel justified in your own discomfort.
Ravi was convicted of 14 other counts including evidence and witness tampering.
grandall - Ravi was most likely the last link in a chain of abuse that last Clementi's entire life. How is he more guilty that the first person or the second person etc... that harassed him? Should law enforcement fell compelled to go back throughout his life and round up everyone who pushed him closer to that bridge? I'm in no way excusing or justifying what he did but do we just punish "the straw that broke the camels back"?
Skup,
His mother didn't advertise his private life on twitter nor did she do it multiple times. That's a pretty big straw.
Basically true, except for the PC hate crime special interest media induced garbage.
I have to tell you people are certainly getting tired of this hate crime BS in this case.
Truth be known the gay population is making matters worse. Gay is the key word here. The agenda is to turn everything from disagreement, to wordsand insensitive actions into hate crimes.
And why would that be? Let me tell you something, gays get pretty damn tired of having to justify their lives and fight for equality and the same protections other people have.
Do we really want to start talking about agenda's? How about the agenda of using gays and lesbians to turn out voters? How about the Christian agenda to wipe out anything they don't believe in. How about the agenda to get the LGBT to just sit down and shut up? Our agenda, protect ourselves. Your agenda, make us go away.
rossj503 - His mother? I never mentioned his mother. I was referring to society as whole. Ravi was just the last in a string of @#$% that went back most of his life.
I have no agenda. However I do believe that this PC abuse of the hate crime has and will continue to hamper the Gay Community. Why you might ask? In Tylers case, Tyler chose to end his life, Ravi did not cause hem to jump off of that bridge.
Ravi's punishment was not solely based on the invasion of privacy, tampering with evidence or the other associated crimes he committed. He received 10 years because Tyler was Gay.
You can call that poetic justice if you like, but I call it catering to a protected class.
If a jury convicts on fact fine, but I will fight against this protected class PC BS.
By the way you being gay has no effect on me until you try to force your beliefs on me.
Rossj503
Go back and read my post, and take note. The only thing that is discomforting for me is the act of suicide; also remember most people do it for attention and/or a cry for help. Sounds like you may need some.
You also will notice in my post, I in no way agree with what Ravi did and feel he should be punished for what he is guilty of.
no need to respond
Like your belief being forced on gays and lesbians that they shouldn't be protected?
Fnkheehaw,
After re reading your post, you are correct. The only help I need is stopping hateful people from getting away with their actions simply by hiding behind convenient excuses.
Oh, so you're a LIAR, too... seems we have a lot of those here today...
What twaddle. The only "belief" that gays are trying to FORCE is equality under the law. Which, by the way, is something that our Constitution is supposed to force upon everyone already.
Bernitch
Bernitch
What Twaddle, your way off base here. You stretch the truth to fit your view. This trial stretched the truth to get a conviction for a hate crime that did not exist period.
What an arrogant little pri@k! I hope he gets the maximum sentence and then has to return to India. He'll fit right in with all the other arrogant pri@ks.
artsylady, your Racism is showing.
ah shaddup.
artsylady, May be you don't know this.... more young girls in india are graduating as software engineers and in many advanced TECHNICAL degrees. Definitely way more than US.
Going by your racist rant, you probably are not even qualified enough at the level of many indian girls today.
India also has a population that's 5 times that of the U.S. Are all of those women being educated in India or abroad? When india reaches the status of the U.S. come back and talk then.
Actually, it's < 4x but don't let facts get in your way.
Facts have never bothered those on the right.
Chris Gilliard
And certainly not the left by a long shot.
There were faults on the part of both Ravi and Tyler. They both were immature being college freshman, which isn't surprising as even graduate students and rookie professionals are immature. The situation just spiraled out given that it happened in a very short period of time leaving no time to think through matters and react sensibly. In retrospect, Ravi does seem truthful. However, he doesn't have a second chance as the heavy hand of law is weighing on him. It is the cost of making mistakes at the wrong time.
And what second chance does Tyler have?
Dorothy - Tyler CHOSE to kill himself. That was his choice. He could have had as many second chances as he wanted. But he chose not to.
Oh stop the nonsense, wryview. you say that as if he was in a grocery store, and chose a can of peas instead of corn, and it was just a CHOICE he made himself.
these a-holes, like Ravi, know exactly the impact something like this would have on someone. severe embarrassment and despair is what Ravi was shooting for, and he got it. and when people make "choices" when they are in despair, they are never good choices. DUH! that's why people kill themselves.
maybe someday something like this will happen to one of your kids, and you can say "eh, it was just a poor choice, nobody else's fault!"
Dorothy-4004748
He could have chose to live.
Bernitch, what embarrassment? Being gay is nothing to be embarrassed about, seems like he was. However, peas and carrots really? That's just not a very good analogy.
Bernich - If Tyler was happy with his life, he wouldn't have taken it. I'm a plump hispanic woman - if someone recorded me binging on cheeseburgers and shown all of our peers, would I be embarrassed? HELL YES. But would I go kill myself? HELL NO. In the same way, how many people have been recorded having sex without their knowledge? TONS. If Tyler felt his sexual life was just that - a sexual life, and he was happy with it, he wouldn't have been quite so bothered. Yes, he would have felt betrayed, and embarrassed, and harassed, and that his privacy was invaded; but would he have killed himself? No! He obviously had SEVERE emotional problems aside from this incident. Not to mention that in other countries besides the US, homosexuality is MUCH more accepted. And if Ravi grew up around diversity, being a minority, chances are he's more likely to accept it than someone who grew up with only one main race and lifestyle type. Again, Tyler chose to be selfish and kill himself because that's what Tyler wanted to do. I'm sorry he was in so much pain, but Ravi didn't raise him, nor did he push him off the bridge.
Really? Where do you live? In just about every state of the union, Invasion of Privacy and Malicious Harassment are crimes -- usually felony crimes.
And you brush those off as if they were "oh, whatever..."
Yeah, hon, actually he did. And a jury agrees, but disagrees with you. Imagine that!
Cheers!
It shouldn't be, but it is ridiculed and slammed CONSTANTLY in our society. It is denigrated and shat upon by the right-wing, by the religious (especially mainstream christianity) as immoral, sinful, second-class (at best), degrading and an abomination CONSTANTLY. Ignoring that and pretending that isn't out there, pressuring kids and driving them into shame, humiliation, embarrassment, ridicule... is simply a stupid position to take.
Hmmm, Not Ravi did not push Tyler off that bridge. To say so is BS, Tyler chose to jump to his death. Had I been on that jury, Ravi would have been found guilty of everything but the hate crime BS.
Bernitch,
Life is what you make it, there are tons of people who are gay and in no way are they embarrassed about it. I guess if you’re ashamed there’s a difference.
However it is my choice to take to hart what people say and the way I see it is, if I do get upset about what someone says, it then becomes my fault and no one else’s
fnk,
Unless you have walked in the shoes of others, how do you know what it's like to be them? It's great that you can theorize how you would react and how you would feel to have your mother feel the way Tyler's did and to have a whole dorm laughing at you or what it's like to have your life up for political discussion every two years and hear how awful you are. I'm glad you can imagine what that's like.
Rossj503
So you’re saying you have walked in all of their shoes?
I'm not sure what you’re trying to gain from this. Do us both a favor and please don't respond to me in the future. You just don't make any sense to me. Sorry.
*Not responding to fnkheehaw*
I love when people try to get the last word in on a discussion by trying to shame them or claim they don't make sense. Reasonable people, if they don't understand or have no desire to continue a conversation on a board, simply don't reply. Passive aggressive behavior is pretty typical I guess. Sorry.
*Not a response to fnkheehaw*
Then I'm glad you weren't on the jury with such a premeditated belief without hearing all the facts, which the jury did. Were you there? Did you hear all the testimony? The jurors did and came back with a unanimous decision. Remember, the defense agreed that every juror was acceptable to hear this case.
No, but you presumed to walk in the shoes of those whom you feel should not be embarrassed about all the gay-hatred and denigration that is out in our society today...
It's a two-way street.
...unless you're just too much of a low-life to realize that some people react to huge social pressures, and others have different coping mechanisms making them capable of being less affected. Assuming nobody (epsecially younger people) are affected, or assuming they simply shouldn't be affected by it because you know of so many people who aren't -- well, it's simply the viewpoint of an uneducated low-life.
Cheers!
rossj503
The junior prosecutors opening statement said it all for me. No premeditated beliefs here. There will be other juries, that are just as tainted by the prosecution. I hope to be on one.
Let's not a little thing like testimony stand in the way of truth. Your preconceived notions of what is acceptable is all that's needed. That is a truly frightening thought.
rossj503
Testimony please, I've been on numerous Jury trials. This case was tainted from the start.
Ravi's actions are not acceptable under any standard.
But to paint it as a hate crime is ludicrous.
There is the rule of law and there are instructions to the Jury to ignore that last remark.
The bottom line is this, he was stupid and insensitive, he invaded Tyler's privacy (Highly Questionable), and tampered with evidence. That's it in a nut shell.
I need to say no more.
If a parent or family should fail in their attempts to educate the young about morals, then iron bars and locks come next. That's the reality of society. Like it or not.
By that standard, we need a lot more prisons. How about a gulag. You probably will like that.
yeah, that's what he was talking about, mario. a gulag. thanks for the silly reply!
Bernitch, Yes he was talking about gulag. In the more civilized world, we tend to put people in jail AFTER a FAIR trial in a court of law. Not just for merely someone not having enough "morals" (which is what Bernitch was saying).
Coming to this case,it was a show trial.
It was what Bernitch was saying? I never said that! I am Bernitch, and I never said that, either.
Holy cow -- it would appear that you have reading compreshension issues, as well as the inability to keep statements and information properly ordered in your little noggin.
Which is probably why your comments are never germaine... dismissed!
Cheers!
This young man's defensive attitude shows that he still doesn't see the whole picture. He is young, but he is an adult. Tragic.
it's like the kid has no conscience. sociopaths are a lot like that... "I feel energized by the guilty verdict." wow. makes you wonder, who's next on his list.
Hate crimes should be punished and LGBT people she be protected by laws that expressly state that sexual orientation, gender, etc as a cause for harassment, violence etc, should be punished with the utmost severity. That being said, I am not entirely convinced, based on what I have read of the case, that this guy is guilty of anything but being a total ass. Should he be punished? Perhaps. But I don't think prison time really fits the crime (again, from what I have read).
And for those who say, go back to India, you are showing the exact same kind and degree of bigotry that you are berating this guy for. The irony is, how to say it, rather grotesque. If you think he is guilty of a hate crime, then the punishment is for that. Not for being Indian or of Indian heritage. There is absolutely no connection.
When I read the "go back to India" stuff -- all that tells me is that people are aware he is not a citizen -- and when a non-citizen is here in the US and commits a felony, they are immediately deported. as they should be.
he came here to benefit from an American educational institution and get a better education -- and while here, he decided to do something like this to an American Citizen. Odd, given that if I were in his shoes and the situation reversed, and I was in another country like that to benefit from one of their programs, I'd sure as hell never act like that toward one of their citizens...
but it just shows you what a self-important sociopath this kid is...
Actually the facts in this case are... Ravi did not come here. His parents did. He grew up in this country since he was a little kid.
Umm he was not convicted of a hate crime. READ THE VERDICT!
Ravi, who faced 15 basic charges, including invasion of privacy, witness tampering, and evidence tampering, with further charges of bias intimidation attached to some of the basic charges, was found guilty of all 15 counts, with one guilty count of bias intimidation attached to the second viewing incident, on March 16, 2012.
WAKE UP!!
He was born in India, and then came here later. THAT is "the facts".
Let's be clear: Ravi deliberately ridiculed Tyler Clementi in an invasive manner that has no excuse. He needs to accept greater responsibility for his ugly actions that caused Tyler Clementi to kill himself. He still doesn't believe he even deserves the special plea bargain deal? Fine, then accept the jury's decision instead.
This is the thing I never understood about this Ravi character... If you ain't gay, why you watchin' gay stuff?????
because careful, that sentence might get you prison time.
The final piece of the puzzle.
Ravi is probably even deeper in the closet, from an even more unaccepting society than our own here in the US. And when given the chance, guys like that will point the finger and ridicule more and more, and very publically, in order to make people around him think "well, Ravi sure isn't gay! look at how he ridicules and shames gay people!" and that's the kind of security these closeted sociopaths try to garner for themselves.
like all the republican closet cases -- Larry Craig from Idaho, Mark Foley from Florida, evangelist Ted Haggard, Bob Allen (also from FL), etc... Classic cases of people who attack gays with legislation and hate, and we find out later they are closet cases themselves. Go figure.
I don't agree with added prison time for "hate crimes". The crime is what it is, and the punishment for a crime should be for the crime committed.
I agree. If you kill someone, isn't that hate, regardless of what or who you are hating? NOT saying that Ravi killed Tyler, because I believe Tyler killed Tyler; just agreeing with above comment.
Simply put what happened to Ravi was a travesty.
He was offered a very sweet plea bargain and foolishly turned it down even though he knew that conviction on the primary charges of spying and obstruction was a certainty.
What you call "a travesty" is what happens when a defendant arrogantly refuses to accept responsibility for their own behavior.
well said, shrekk!
If he promised to vote for Obama,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,90% of you would forgive him.
Are you serious trying to turn this into a political debate, get a grip! A whole new level of ignorant troll.
I think he was trying to point out that if Ravi was pro-Obama, it might show he had a brain after all, and was less like the typical Republican gay-hating closet case, like disgraced GOP Mark Foley or disgraced GOP Larry Craig. And therefore, by showing he had some intelligence, we might be inclined to forgive him...
And, that's certainly a point worth considering...
LOL, you Wreak of you own brand of hate.
Why? Because I point out FACTS??
By the way, the word you were looking for is Reek.
LOL!!
Your version/beliefs concerning the facts are not necessarily facts, and thanks for the grammar lesson. Dig a little deeper you'll find that you are not as enlightened as you have convinced you are.
Trayvon Martin is a hate crime. I am not surprised that Trayvon's killer isn't behind bars, or that the US attorney that was pressured into taking up the case also is hesitant to put the killer behind bars. Poor Clementi was spied on, briefly, by his own roommate, and without any further actions from Ravi, we have an arrest, a prosecution, a hate crime, and a conviction, on 15 counts.
Both are terrible tragedies involving hateful treatment of a minority, deserving of steep punishment. And yes, Trayvon's killer deserves the steeper sentence.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
BINGO! Well said, Jane!
The first one took TWO YEARS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not a week.
Try and get a grip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all things cannot happen as fast as an Obama gas price hike.
...except a colossal Bush Recession
How could this intelligent young man believe that his invasion of privacy would not hurt his victim? Did he really believe he and his roommate would watch it together and have a good laugh? Given the culture Ravi comes from, had the situation been reversed, he and his family would have been horrified.
Do I think it was a hate crime? Not really. Do I believe it was cruel, invasive, immature, and insensitive? Yes. And his thoughtless action (perhaps to impress friends, embarrass his roommate, have a good laugh at someone else's expense?) resulted in a death and, for that, he is accountable.
It makes no difference if his victim was "troubled" or "fragile". We, as human beings, should be discerning and socially aware enough to know that it was, at best, damaging and humilitating. And I do believe that was Ravi's aim.
unfortunately, humiliating someone isn't a crime.
Odd thing to say, lady. You said this would be something to horrify -- then you say it isn't a hate crime??
Hate Crime Legislation is what it is because a particular act against an individual or a group of individuals creates fear in the lives of the victim(s) because of the identified group they belong to...and then, the act transfers fear into the larger group as well.
Example: burning a cross in a traditionally hated minority's yard.
Example: painting a swastika on a traditionally hated minority's garage door
Example: filming a gay couple "doing their thing" for public dissemination, knowing they are a traditionally hated minority for those very acts.
These things are meant to single people out for who they are, embarrass them, horrify them, denigrate them...
The result of this incident: other college students read about this, many of whom are closeted already out of fear, knowing the pervasiveness of internet cams, cell-phone cams, etc... And now see that this could easily happen to them... And the fear is ratcheted up for them significantly, driving them even further into the closet, into hiding, telling more lies about who they really are to people to avoid being found out and further harassed, which has its own impact upon them mentally. And then, so many of you say that their despair and depression isn't the fault of people like Ravi. And, that's ridiculous.
Yes, lady, it very much IS a hate crime. And that's why hate crime legislation exists. It doesn't just affect the intended vicitm, but its effect reverberates through that entire community of people -- and that is often the intent, too.
The crime here is Malicious Harassment and invasion of privacy. It is a multi-phased act. First there was the spying. Then the filming. And then the public dissemination of what was filmed with the intent to intimidate and embarrass. And yes, punkin, it is a crime. In fact, there were several counts of crimes that were documented here, and were upheld in court.
Bernitch. Please never call me "punkin" again. It is so very condescending and I choose not to insult you by calling you by a pet name.
You have your view and I have mine.
I don't even think we disagree. You need to re-read my post. But please don't respond to me again.
It's odd, however, that you list all the elements of a hate crime, as it is defined in Hate Crime Legislation, and finish your post with "And I do believe that was Ravi's aim." So, you not only felt all the elements of a hate crime were there, YOU CELARLY STATE YOU BELIEVE IT WAS HIS INTENT!
But, then you also say "Do I think it was a hate crime? Not really."
I just think that is so WHACK, that it was worth remarking.
It's like saying "i saw him shoot the other guy in the head, and I do beleive that it was his intent... but, eh, nope. I don't really think it was a homicide."
Yeah. Alright...
I'm afraid that this young man is going to be in for a rude awakening once he enters prison.
He probably won't feel "energized" once he's locked up and experiences the horrors of prison life.
I really don't think he understands what kind of life is going to be awaiting him behind bars.
It's amazing that some people can be so arrogant, narcissistic, and wrapped up in their own world that they...ironically...make decisions that aren't in their best interests.
Eventually, he will come to regret his decision not to take the plea deal.
LOL at all the white and black - gay and straight RACISTS complaining about this guy.
I am not a Christian but what did Jesus (the brown man you pray to) say?
"“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
Big Sonny-I agree with you. Prison is no fun and "energized" is probably the last word I would use if I were facing prison time.
However, I think this case will be slid under some rug on appeal, Ravi will be deported for a bit, and when the dust settles he'll be back to finish his education.
I don't think he will see any prison time. If he does serve time he will have to be in some sort of protective unit because there will be some folks in prison who will not see the humor in what he did.
Not hard to see why his lawyers didn't call him to testify...
Exactly. This guy is a jerk and has no remorse for what he did. He's only sorry that he got caught in his lies and hateful actions. Perhaps he'd like to stream his imprisonment to his former dorm mates for their entertainment since getting a laugh seems to be so important to him?
Exactly! A true sociopath at work. The only thing he's truly thinking about is who his next victim will be when he gets out.
If he was worried about his next victim, wouldn't he have just taken the plea and started planning now? You're taking this way out of proportion here. He screwed up. Do I think he's a moron for doing so? Yes. Do I think he deserves the Invasion of Privacy, etc.? Yes. But, the hate crime? Absolutely not. He did it trying to be funny and hurt someone, but he didn't cause him to kill himself. If Tyler was so mortified all his "peers" would look at him differently, there's an easier way to go about getting away from it. It's called transferring, switching rooms, talking to Ravi about it, counseling, etc. There's plenty of resources out there in the gay community to deal with things like this. None of them have jumping off a bridge in the handbook. I'm sorry, but there's more to the story than Ravi being an immature prick, and it isn't him being a "gay-hater. "
No, because sociopaths are self-important/narcissistic, and won't admit they did anything wrong.
Oh yeah, that makes sense. Everyone should react to things in the same way. Gee, if they did, then there would be ZERO suicides in this country!
I completely believe Ravi.....I never thought he was out to "get" Clementi or hated him because he was gay.
I think Ravi summed it up exactly when he said he was a stupid immature freshmen. I think we've all seen the orginal American Pie movie? Well, there you go....stupid, immature, thought it would be hilarious,unthinking....no hate.
Having said that, that does not excuse his actions....whether he did what he did out of hate or out of just being a stupid unthinking kid....the results are the same. It led to the death of Clementi. And unfortunately for Ravi, he needs to pay a price for his actions.
tragic all around.
And what if he did "hate him for being gay". Somehow that's supposed to equate to 10 years prison time.
I hate it when people believe that other "certain" people should have special rights, do I deserve 10 years in prison?
Probably.
Chris Gilliard
More special treatment BS.
Milo, the point of the "special treatment" minorities get under the law now is that, apparently, the previous laws didn't do a good enough job of deterring "special treatment" like dragging them behind pickup trucks.
A crime that is an expression of bigotry is more destructive to society than an identical crime without that motive. As such, it must be taken more seriously.
So one homosexual gets dragged behind a pickup truck by a few morns, and the rest of have to walk around on egshells, in fear of the thought police.
Hate crimes legislation is unjust, and unfair/unequal. In being so; it should offend both the conservative mind (which gravitates toward justice) and the liberal mind (which is most concerned about equality)
Todd whether he is "guilty" of hating gays or not is not the issue.
His actions led to the death of that young man. And that's why he must be punished.
Rob,
Do you seriously believe that we would be having this converstion if there was not a supposed "hate crime" involved. Do you believe he would be charged with anything if this fellow student was not gay? What if he just embarrased him in general, and he took his life? The verdict had nothing to do with the young man taking his life, it was not even "supposed" to be used as eveidence. Your argument is non-sensical!
Tod-2791955
Rob,
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Being Dragged behind a pickup is physical evidence, in Ravi's case no one can prove that in Tyler's mind Ravi drove him to suicide.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Jury was tainted by the hate crime BS, because Tyler was Gay period.
Maybe, maybe not....you don't know the answer to that any more than you know the answer to the question of whether or not Ravi hated gays.
On the one hand you are reading the mind of the jury and drawing a conclusion and then on the other, saying no one should try to read the mind of Ravi to reach a conclusion.
Again, whether or not he hated gays is not the issue. The issue is his ACTIONS. And his actions, whether fuleed by hate or fuled by being irresponsible, unthinking mean-spirited punk led to Clementi's death.
I personally believe what Ravi was saying....I dont think he hates gays. But, his actions indirectly led to the death of that young man, and he now needs to be held responsible for those actions.
Its a really hard tough lesson for him, but it's a lesson that needs to be taught. Young people need to start understanding that their actions have consequences.
Roblogic,
Truly baffling how some people will ignore something so obviously true.
I wonder if the jury is all white or majority white. That is racism for me. The wanted to teach a lesson to this Ravi - who did an immature thing, but not a hate crime.
Those who claim - he has to go back to India. Get this -we (Indian Immigrants) came in a Jet to USA and you (white caucasians) came in a boat. You (white caucasians) killed many native american Indians , in true "Kill and Conquest" culture. Where as Indian culture is of peace and giving. We contribute to the society.
MS-For the most part....true.
But not this time.
Mr. Ravi is not a U.S. citizen...if he is not attending an institution of higher learning, why would he not be deported back to his home country? His deportation has nothing to do with how he got here, how Caucasians got here, how this country was founded, which culture fosters "peace and giving", and who contributes to society. (P.S. As deplorable as it is, "kill and conquest" is largely part of the planet's culture. India's culture is no different where this is concerned.)
Why didn't he take the stand in his own defense then? Explain this to the jury? It looks like he and his lawyer really made a lot of bad decisions.
based on how self-important, narcissistic and what a sociopath he is, I'd say his lawyer's decision to have ravi keep his mouth shut at trial was probably a good decision for the defense.
i dont think he deserves 10 years but he should serve some time in jail and then be deported back to India. He had time to think this thru and was a bright guy. now he just comes across as arrogant and not very sympathetic to anyone.
A white gay kid jumps to his death and they put an Asian kid behind bars for hate crime that 'might' have taken place (inspite of his mails indicating he might have just been stupidly horsing around).
A black guy is shot dead in cold blood by a white man, and leave alone an arrest, they are still trying to 'figure' out whether he can be charged.
What a big BS this justice system is becoming!
He came to US when he was two, and he grew up here just as I presume you did. His supposed crime was committed as an American citizen. So how come he gets deported while all the crack operators and murderers roam scott free??
It kills me that people don't get how hate crimes legislation works. There is no "special" protection for gays. If a gay guy blasted a video of straight people engaged in an intimate moment and called them "breeders" clearly debasing them for being straight he could just as well be charged with a hate crime based on sexual orientation. The protection works both ways, it's just that str8s are so thoroughly accepted by our society that is much less likely to happen. And you can tell what is going on in a person's mind by the context of the violation: :Look, he's kissing a dude!" pretty much says where this freaks head was at. As for Clementi being out, there's big difference to an 18 year old to be out to parents and a few intimates and having your physical demonstration of desire blasted to strangers with rabid encouragement. Who know what taunts pushed him over the edge. I hope the bastard serves the full sentence and have a few "intimate moments" of his own in stire
Bud2010
Hmmm, BS
Right on the money, Bud2010. Sounds like you understand the legislation, where others still have their heads rectally ensconced (or simply don't know how to read).
There is no law against being a ignorant, insensitive a-hole, but there are laws against invasion of privacy which is what he should have been tried for. Everything else is BIASED HOOPLAH!!!! Using his tech knowledge to spy on people is a much bigger issue to me, it shows he has no morals when it comes to others privacy, he might as well been hacking your bank account etc. In this technological age privacy is a HUGE factor and this guy blatantly disregarded that and his Karma is being served justly.
Um, heh heh. Why don't people READ the information?
He was tried and convicted for several counts of Invasion of Privacy and Malicious Harassment. These are valid criminal statutes and the prosecution easily met their burden of proof...
Correct!
I don't think it was homophobia-motivated - I think it was a typical bully behavior that targeted the weakest figure in Ravi's social circle. Tyler Clementi was a sensitive and shy young man - combine that with a bully who wants to look cool to his friends, and you've got a recipe for disaster. What Ravi did in and of itself was bad enough without adding the "bias" charges onto it - he basically broadcast someone else's sexual experience without their knowledge. That's felony-worthy. He violated Tyler Clementi, and that shouldn't be minimized. But Ravi obviously isn't accepting that aspect of what he did - he's entirely focused on "I'm not a homophobe." Well, he's still a bully. I think the law was misapplied in this case, but he kinda deserves whatever he gets, in my view (even if I hate it when justice is served so indirectly).
Maybe I should have worded it different for those looking to pick at anything, for your information I did READ and can READ quite well, my point was that the invasion of privacy issue was a side note in this whole ordeal and should have been in the front of the show.