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AP,file
Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, left, 1st platoon sergeant, Blackhorse Company, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division participates in an August 2011 exercise at the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, Calif.
Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales was charged Friday with 17 counts of murder and six counts of attempted murder, along with other charges, in connection with a shooting rampage in two southern Afghanistan villages that shocked Americans back home and further roiled U.S.-Afghan relations.
The charges come almost two weeks after the massacre in which Bales allegedly left his base in the early morning hours and shot Afghan civilians, including women and nine children, while they slept in their beds, then burned some of the bodies.
Military wives rally around Karilyn Bales
It was the worst allegation of civilian killings by an American and has severely strained U.S.-Afghan ties at a critical time in the decade-old war.
Bales was read the charges on Friday at the military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., where he has been held since being flown from Afghanistan last week, a U.S. official said.
For alleged Afghan shooter, death penalty unlikely
Bales' civilian attorney, John Henry Browne, said Friday without commenting on the specific charges that he believes the government will have a hard time proving its case and that at some stage in the prosecution his client's mental state will be an important issue.
Death toll in Afghanistan massacre climbs to 17
Col. Gary Kolb, a spokesman for U.S. forces in Afghanistan, says Bales was also charged Friday with six counts of attempted murder and six counts of assault.
The decision to charge him with premeditated murder suggests that prosecutors plan to argue that he consciously conceived the killings. A military legal official for U.S. forces in Afghanistan who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the case, noted that premeditated murder is not something that has to have been contemplated for a long time.
Criminal charges including 17 counts of murder and six counts of assault have been brought against Sgt. Robert Bales for alleged actions in Afghanistan. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports this is the first step toward the eventual filing of charges.
“These are unsurprising charges, predictable charges. I would have thought there would have been a few more lesser charges because no prosecutor likes to lose his principal charge and see the individual walk so usually some lesser offenses are charged as well,” Gary Solis, former head of the Marine Corps’ Military Law Branch and current adjunct professor of law at Georgetown Law School, told msnbc.com.
“But what will really be significant is when the charges are referred to trial by the convening authority … because when they are referred, they will either be referred as capital or not. … If referred capital, that will change the complexion of the case.”
A senior U.S. official tells NBC News that Bales is likely to face lesser charges such as dereliction of duty and disobeying a lawful order.
The 38-year-old soldier and father of two, whose home is in Bonney Lake, Wash., faces trial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but it could be months before any public hearing.
Legal jurisdiction in the Bales case is expected to be switched Friday from U.S. Forces-Afghanistan in Kabul to Bales' home base of Joint Base Lewis-McChord near Tacoma, Wash., U.S. officials said.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has said Bales could face the death penalty if he is convicted of murder, but it is unlikely. The U.S. military has not executed a service member since 1961. Legal experts say Bales could face a lengthy prison sentence if convicted.
The maximum punishment for a premeditated murder conviction is death, dishonorable discharge from the armed forces, reduction to the lowest enlisted grade and total forfeiture of pay and allowances, Kolb said. The mandatory minimum sentence is life imprisonment with the chance of parole.
Retired Army Colonel and NBC military analyst Jack Jacobs examines the concerns set forth by the attorney for Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, the soldier who was charged Friday with 17 counts of murder.
How Staff Sgt. Bales' lawyers are fighting for his life
Legal experts have said the death penalty would be unlikely in the case. The military hasn't executed a service member since 1961 when an Army ammunition handler was hanged for raping an 11-year-old girl in Austria. None of the six men currently on death row at Fort Leavenworth was convicted for atrocities against foreign civilians.
“This is just the first step in what’s going to be a very long process and it still remains to be seen whether this is actually going to be a death penalty case or not,” Daniel Conway, a lawyer and former Marine staff sergeant who has been involved in battlefield investigations in Iraq and Afghanistan of alleged crimes by U.S. soldiers, told msnbc.com. “The basic idea here is that you can’t hold somebody in jail forever without charging them, so they’ve had to take this first step here.”
The charging document did not provide details about the killings, leaving the timeline unclear. The dead bodies were found in Balandi and Alkozai villages — one north and one south of the base.
Members of the Afghan delegation investigating the killings said one Afghan guard working from midnight to 2 a.m. saw a U.S. soldier return to the base around 1:30 a.m. Another Afghan soldier who replaced the first and worked until 4 a.m. said he saw a U.S. soldier leaving the base at 2:30 a.m. It's unknown whether the Afghan guards saw the same U.S. soldier. If the gunman acted alone, information from the Afghan guards would suggest that he returned to base in between the shooting sprees.
It also is not known whether the suspect used grenades, Kolb said. The grenade launcher attachment is added to the standard issue M-4 rifle for some soldiers but not all, he said. Bales was assigned to provide force protection at the base.
Msnbc.com's Miranda Leitsinger and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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Jurisdiction?
How does The U.S. Military or The U.S. Government have jurisdiction in this case?
Because we're not going to turn over any U.S. citizen to face potential cruel and unusual punishment. If this had happened in a civilized country, I think he would be turned over.
Hello folks, the more information that comes out the more suspect I am of the entire story. The media is in full on demonizing mode of this guy. Afghan villagers where the murders took place and President Karzai are saying that more than one soldier was involved. They are saying it was a dozen to twenty soldiers. I don't know what the real truth is. What I do know is that we were lied to about the Jessica Lynch rescue and the Pat Tillman killing. It probably will be some time before the entire story comes out but I hope it will be the truth.
DingleB - Get off your high horse. What he did was uncivilized. Had this happened in Texas even this guy would have gotten a rope and a tree so shut it about demeaning other countries.
Fort Hood ring a bell
Not on a high horse. Quit changing the argument; nobody is suggesting that what he did wasn't cruel.
are you really that stupid? really? do you really not get how it works?
Big surprise, here comes TrustVerify with the same post for the umpteenth time
To answer your question how the military has jurisdiction? It's because he is in the military.
When one is in the military, basically he/she is 'owned' by the military... so they take control.
I hope they throw the book at this guy.. He did more damage than he will ever realize or that the military will ever be able to clear up.
That puts your military kids and mine in higher danger.
Because under both the agreement with the afghan government on force deployment and I think the Geneva Caonvention soldiers cannot be tried for murder by the enemy during war. Which is why we have those muslims at Gitmo. They all claim to be soldiers in an army. And Ft Hood Texas civilians were killed and wounded and the army refused to turn the Major over to Texas for trial on the same grounds. He would have a greater chance of actually being executed by the state than he does by the army.
The U.S. has jurisdiction because he is an American. He is a Soldier of the United States and will be treated as such. We dont just hand over our people to be tried in another country.
When you are in the U.S. military, you are property of the U.S. government. He should get the death penalty at Leavenworth a.s.a.p. He is a disgrace to our country and everyone who serves....
Exactly Kcdad, how do they get any jurisdiction whatsoever? If this was an Afgan attack on U.S. soil and U.S. women and children, they would be charged in OUR courts, you can bet on that. He should be handed over to them for punishment.
He knowingly walked on their soil, murdered women and children while they slept, totally unarmed and unprovoked, and they want to try & act like he was sooo messed up he didn't know what he was doing? That's Bull$hit, After he killed them he even burned some of the bodies, That right there is showing he knew exactly what he was doing, on top of walking back to base and turning himself in.
I don't care if he's done 4 tours, he just screwed over everything our entire country has worked for over there for the last DECADE. And will likely bring on more violence to his fellow officers who are still there, while he gets a free ride to Washington where he will probably get a slap on the wrist at best.
And as for his wife and 2 kids? If he's so "unstable", then they are all better off without the risk of him slaughtering them in their sleep anyway.
My father served in Vietnam for 5 years, starting at the age of 17, spent most of his time there retrieving bodies, being shot at and being assigned the crew to go ahead of everyone else to see if there were land mines ahead so the others could travel safely. His first week there his friend was shot right in front of him, and hit a mine in a jeep, was rolled down an embankment and pulled his half dead friend up to another army vehicle to try to save him and had to hold his guts from spilling out. He wasn't right after that, but he never went off and murdered anyone either and never used it as an excuse for Anything.
So what happened to REAL honor?
Or is it just that Americans think we're more valuable than everyone else? If so, I am sad to call myself one.
The families of his victims deserve Justice and we have no right, literally, to take it from them.
The fact that he is U.S. military doesn't have as much to do with him not being handed over to a civilian court. Military members are tried all the time under local (non-federal) jurisdictions. I've heard cases where military has received civilian punishment, then returned to the military to face military punishment.
I still think the reason, is that we're not going to send a U.S. citizen to a public stoning, or whatever type of punishment they hand out over there, no matter how bad the crime was.
Cruel and unusual punishment? I know what you mean however, what do you call shooting 16 people (Women/Children) to death and burning bodies?
One person held on in agony for 2 wks and many more maimed and in absolute agony now?
Out...
okay this @!$%# is stupid. the guy wasn't even spouse to be deployed again. but what dose our dumb ass gov. do? They send him back. now he is being punished for some dumb asses mistake.
and if you don't like what i typed shove it!!!!!!
cause this will make a family lose their dad and husband. in till you have lost a family member overseas don't say @!$%#
ALL Active Duty Servicemembers regardless of location, are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That being said, the US Gov't has jurisdiction of SSG Bales. The exception is for National Guard or Reserve Servicemembers who are NOT on active duty. In which case they fall under Title 10. USC. SSG Bales will probably get life w/o parole. Here's a real interesting question: Why Hasn't MAJ Hasan been charged yet? He is a Muslim who killed US Soldiers at Ft. Hood. Are we going to send him to a Muslim country to face a trial via Sharia law? Didn't think so...His trial, if there was one, would be to heap praise on him for killing the "infidels."
You think just like Sarah Palin and sound just like Chickenhawker Cheney
eiym777
Here's a simple answer, Major Malik Nadal Hasan IS a U.S. CITIZEN... It Occured on U.S. SOIL.
No one is suggesting the soldier in THIS story be sent to a country He didn't do anything in, THIS soldier murdered civillians on THEIR OWN SOIL. Maybe you should look closer, before comparing apples to lemons. And furthermore, his trial being praised? Even his family was not supporting him (Unlike families of americans who think they can do no wrong) Hasan's family has called the shooting "despicable and deplorable." AND They are currently working with Virginia law enforcement.
If a military service member commits a crime off post, it is handled by civilian authorities, except when deployed, then they fall under the jurisdiction of the military justice system all the time. DingleB, if a service member is punished in a civilian court system, they can not be punished in a military one. Once they are out of confinement, they are usually just put out of the military.
eiym777
On November 12 and December 2, respectively, Hasan was officially charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, thus making him eligible for the death penalty if convicted
justina the truth hurts don't it! You know that would happen and yet you won't even admit it. At least be honest.
The reason the US military has jurisdiction is that is what was agreed to by the Afghan government in the Status of Forces agreement under which the US has troops stationed in Afghanistan. The agreement gives the US military and not the Afghan government jurisdiction over all us military personnel in Afghanistan. This is a fairly standard thing for these agreements and jurisdiction can only be ceded at the discretion of the US government.
War is Hell. Maybe we should blame the guys that sent him over there. How can we prosecute this soldier for actions in a war zone and not even attempt to prosecute the radical doctor that went on a premeditated killing rampage at Ft. Hood? Go figger. It's all about the buck. Most of you are afflicted with O.S. (Ostrich Syndrome) I pray for you.
Why is it that when extremist Muslims kill non-Muslims, they all celebrate. Whenever we kill one of them, dozens of non-Muslims are killed in revenge.
If the roles were reversed, and one of their soldiers killed a bunch of us, he would be celebrated.
I think Bales should be allowed to go home to his family after some intense therapy, and he should be given a new identity if he so desires. The man has already been through quite a lot, as has his family. His service to the United States is appreciated by millions of U.S. citizens, as well as millions world wide.
Where is the outrage when the Taliban kills dozens of Afghan civilians. They never arrest soldiers that kill civilians. Why in the heck should we?
Let him go home !!!
Funny, the Ft Hood shooter (Nidal Malik Hasan) has yet to go to trial and there's not even any suggestion of a trial date for him, yet it seems there's going to be a rush to put Robert Bales on trial.
No No No. Not even in Texas would he be lynched. Yes I know alot of Texans and they too believe in due process and United States Constitution. The question is not how civilized they are or not but how civilized WE are. Did he do this, he said so, as his lawyer has said, "Is there evidence to prove it", not YET. But before he is guilty we have to PROVE he is NOT INNOCENT in a court of law. WE ARE a civilized nation and people. Like it or not he IS one of our own. He DID fight for this country, OUR constitution, and US. We OWE him due process. May calmer heads prevail here than those there. That is why he is here.
You really think the guy should just "go home?" He apparently has some issues. If you want vengence, how about George Bush and Dick Cheney get charged with crimes against humanity for a war that was started for OIL.
Exactly right Wet Willy.
"After reading the headlines today about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn't help noticing an irony. There is all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind his having suffered a possible traumatic brain injury.
Yet Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming "Allah akbar!" still hasn't stood trial, and they are still debating whether he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive - slay as many infidels as possible.
So we have a guy in a war zone who cracks, and he must be executed immediately. But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience.
Two and a half years later, they still haven't tried the murderous bastard."
I stole this from an e-mail, but I'm just sayin..............
Well there ya go. Why bother with a trial? I'm glad we have people as knowledgeable of this situation as you are. Gee, we dont need any judicial system, we can just ask you. With all of your perceived military justice experience. Thanks.
While I certainly do not condone what he did, he still deserves a fair trial. If found guilty then he deserves to be punished... Of course we still havent heard about President Karzai calling us up and expressing remorse about the 5 Americans that died when an IED went off days before....or about the accused watching a friend of his get killed the day prior....nope, we get UCMJ experts calling for his immediate execution. Tell me again who the disgrace to this country is???
Why don't all of you wait until the trial and hear the arguments and evidence before condemning this soldier? You weren't there. You don't know all the details. No one has the right to pass judgement until all of the evidence has been heard. As for this action complicating relations between the USA and Afghanistan, that wouldn't be an issue if Obama had honored his campaign promise of bringing home the troups.
You also have to remember that this soldier had already served THREE tours of duty in the Middle East. Do any of you critics have any idea of what it is like serving in a war zone? None of you can even conceive of the pressure and stress. A friend of mine who was in the Reserves was in his 40s and had worked hard to build a career for himself as an electrician. He had literally two weeks remaining before retirement from the Reserves when the government snatched him away and sent him to Iraq for close to a year. When he returned, his business was dead because he had not been here to tend to customers. He was traumatized from seeing friends blown to bits in the blink of an eye. He is suffering from PTSD. He is a broken man, yet you armchair judges who have no clue what it is like to be in a wartime situation want to lynch Bales without first giving him a trial.
If Obama or anyone in Congress had as much concern for our soldiers as they do for their reelection, then they would reinstate the draft rather than sending soldiers back for two, three and four tours of duty.
Just for good measure...how many people in other coutries have requested protection of the United States from a foreign government for a fair trial and gotten it? The UN? NATO? Thousands...but not one of our own soldiers....get real!!
It is a very sad thing that he will forever remember while we will eventually forget because there is always a tragedy of some kind. We will probably never know what drove him to this point. If you have never been in the military it is hard to fathom what 3 consecutive tours did to him alone and then going yet again. Why do they keep sending the same men back again and again is the real question. This mental as well of physical stress is inhuman.
Here is the official reason why he will not and cannot be tried elsewhere:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members
It's an easy read.
I am not sure what the hold up with Major Hasan is, but I am sure they are waiting for him to be found competent. An incompetent person cannot be put on trial until they have been found competent by a psychiatrist, or someone like that. Unfortunately, Hasan is very familiar with this process and I am sure he is doing his best to NOT be found competent. The legal department in the US Military knows what they are doing. They want to do whatever possible to ensure a conviction, and if it takes them 10 years to get there, that's a hell of a lot better than them rushing into a trial to please the public, and the defendant walking free. Let the US Military do their job and prosecute these guys, it's already going to be hard enough for them to get a fair trial as it is.
The military has not executed anyone since 1961, when a soldier raped a girl in Austria. So let's get this straight: raping a girl is an executable offense, but killing 300+ civilians is not, and it seems like killing 23+ civilians is not either.
If that's the case, I will take the liberty of pointing our the elephant in the room. The military thinks is wrong to hurt a white girl, but a-okay to murder anyone who is not white. Cue the downvotes, but we all know it's true.
"U.S. personnel are immune from criminal prosecution by Afghan authorities,
and are immune from civil and administrative jurisdiction except with respect to
acts performed outside the course of their duties. [The agreement] explicitly
authorized the U.S. government to exercise criminal jurisdiction over U.S.
personnel, and the Government of Afghanistan is not permitted to
surrender U.S. personnel to the custody of another State, international tribunal
[including the ICC], or any other entity without consent of the U.S.
government.[7]"
From:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members
Does it matter at all that Congress never declared war officially? Guess not...
@Boo Hoo-346391 in message 1.12.
You have good points. I think it was best for the Afgan to take this case. He was not off duty when he commited this shamefull crime and well planned. He was not hallucinating at all, except that the devil was rulling in him and as usual not considering other nations as normal human beings as American played a big role. He killed 17 people and burned some of the bodies. I am sure if Afgan took the case in their hands, it would be closed by now. Now he is in isolation to protect him and being evaluated for mental illness.
If we are all sensitive, what is the difference between him and Major Hassan? The difference is that Hassan was a Muslim, and therefore he is a terrorist, but him a case of PTSD.
If I had my way, this guy would be set free ASAP! It was only a matter of time that this would happen. Our soldiers, every one of them are placed under extreme stress while engaged in war, and boy our government sure has been a fan of wars especially since bushie the mass murderer was in office, may the devil bless his heart.
This guy did 4 tours of duty in a war torn land where atrocities happen on the hour. He had an accident which left him mentally impaired and everyone is quick to hang him in a media court room. Shame on you all.
The military under Obama overlooked his mental state and sent him into battle because they needed more soldiers. We have done him a dis-service and need to be held accountable for our own actions. Please think of something else to do for the next few years and leave this soldier alone so he can have his day in court, as we have done for the muslim in Fort Hood.
I cannot believe that he was brought back to the States after the atrocity... For shame.
He was brought back to the sates to be held before trial. keeping him in an arabic country would only create riots that would create massive security problems
Some people amaze me, they really do.
What he did I won't condone but FFS, stop acting like he isn't a US citizen. He was sent over there as part of the forces to keep OUR country safe and that means you too veritas1214. The shame is your comment and lack of regard for not knowing anything else other than what has been published in the news. You know sh|T so before you pass judgement on something you know nothing about, shut your yap!!!
I have a new rule to reduce aggrevation. Everyone whose post indicates they are stupid enough to believe that soldiers were sent to Iraq or Afghanistan to keep us safe is immediately placed on my ignore list.
It amazes me that any adult can be that brainwashed.
Thank you patter123
""Bales' civilian attorney, John Henry Browne, said Friday without commenting on the specific charges that he believes the government will have a hard time proving its case and that at some stage in the prosecution his client's mental state will be an important issue.""
After reading the headlines today about the US soldier who shot up Afghanistan civilians, I couldn't help noticing an irony. There is all this clamor to try this guy quickly and execute him, never mind his having suffered a possible traumatic brain injury.
Yet Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming "Allah akbar!" still hasn't stood trial, and they are still debating whether he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive - slay as many infidels as possible.
So we have a guy in a war zone who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.
But this Muslim psychiatrist who was stateside in a nice safe office all day murders 13, wounds 29 of our own guys, and they try to argue the poor lad suffered post-traumatic stress syndrome, from listening to real soldiers who had actual battle experience.
Two and a half years later, they still haven't tried the murderous bastard.
Thank you Skeeter, for one of the more sane posts on this topic.
patter123 - there is no better adjective for you than ignorant. Our soldiers do what the president and Congress tell them to do without question. Regardless of whether they were sent to keep us safe or to protect the interest of the military-industrial complex, the common solider deserves respect for putting his or her life on the line by serving the American people as directed by our elected officials. I fully agree that there are hidden agendas in these wars, but if it helps others to cope by believing that our soldiers are keeping us safe, then they have the right to believe that. The problem is that no one nowadays had the conviction to oppose these wars the way that the Vietnam War was opposed. Everyone is too complacent to get out of his armchair and do anything about it. It might be a different story if we still had a draft in which everyone had to serve regardless of social class, race, etc.
Here is the official reason why he will not and cannot be tried elsewhere:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members
It's an easy read.
Maybe you should just move over there so you won't have to deal with out form of military justice, theirs is a bullet in the head, then a trial.
@Leiya123
Pretty scary (if it's true) that Obama wants to sign that. I don't think that's necessarily why our SOFA doesn't allow military members to be tried by Afghani courts though. We have a higher expectation of how a prisoner should be treated and, if convicted, how punishment should be implemented. Starvation & beating of a prisoner and stoning to death of the convicted are unacceptable no matter how severe the crime.
"U.S. personnel are immune from criminal prosecution by Afghan authorities,
and are immune from civil and administrative jurisdiction except with respect to
acts performed outside the course of their duties. [The agreement] explicitly
authorized the U.S. government to exercise criminal jurisdiction over U.S.
personnel, and the Government of Afghanistan is not permitted to
surrender U.S. personnel to the custody of another State, international tribunal
[including the ICC], or any other entity without consent of the U.S.
government.[7]"
From:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members
@Dingle - Our police beat people who aren't even prisoners all the time. We have no moral standing here.
patter123, you are so right!
Get out of Afghanistan.
Like @!$%#ing yesterday!
Or sooner
"Had this happened in Texas"
Seriously, you're comparing Texas to Afghanistan ? Ok, if you say so, that is Bush country, after all it is Texas.
Ringy Dingy Army or at least the Idiots who signed this Whacko's orders to go to Afghanistan,put your selves right out there, front and center in this Mass Cold Blooded Murder Case to.You are as at much at fault as he is.
YOU DUMB ASS GENIUSES SENT HIM THERE.Full knowing this Guy was trouble right from the get go!
It's not Rocket Science!
GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT CRAP HOLE AFGHANISTAN! You had no business there in the first place!This so called War was all MANUFACTURED!
Get that through your Thick Skulls!
should hand his ass over for war crimes as well.
Yet this Major Hasan, who shot up Fort Hood while screaming Allah
akbar, still hasn’t stood trial, and they are still debating whether
he was insane, even with the clear evidence regarding his motive:
slay as many infidels as possible. So we have a guy in a war zone
who cracks, and he must be executed immediately.
Texas is watching we do not like people who shoot our civilian women either.
Yeah thats what i am saying.The Muslim peice of crap is being treated well isn't he.You don't hear one word about his sorry ass anymore.Oh thats right it's an election year and O BUMMER can't say anything negitive or have anything negitive happen to a muslim while he is in office.$%#^%&^(* What a crock of sh_T
Maj Hassan's trial begins in June. They are seeking the death penalty in his case.
Yes but don't let facts stop the rehtoric. Listen he is back here and if he gets a fair trial; that is all, that needs to be known. Sometimes in these cases things come out that shed a different light on things. So don't be too quick to judge.
Your tax dollars sent him there and it should be your tax dollars that tries him, here.
Hey noneyahbusiness...W and Dick are the ones that started the whole thing.
Being a Muslim does not mean you can't be an American. Saying, "Look they do it to us," doesn't work, " you would need to say," look we do this to ourselves." Your comparisons don't work.
Noneyah, I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you are a Christian "piece of crap". This man is just as American as you are. He is entitled to a trial just as all Americans are. IF you don't like the way things are done here in America you can leave at any time. bye bye
Diverdown1 - at this point, it doesn't matter who started the war. It's history; water under the bridge. What does matter is who will end the war. Bringing home the troops was one of Obama's campaign promises in 2008. It's now 2012, and the troops are still not home. Our men and women are still dying in a foreign country to which they never should have been sent. That is what matters at this point.
Halcyon..#6.6,
Hopefully, in your "...Christian 'piece of crap" statement, your judgement really meant a "piece of crap" who professes Christianity - as "Christian" and "piece of crap" are no more synonymous than "Muslim" and "piece of crap" (witness the genesis of acronyms like RINO, DINO, et al).
And - if one poster doesn't agree with another poster - why are they asked to leave the country? This in a country that talks about trying to progress towards more tolerance. One should be strong enough in their own beliefs to not feel their validity is threatened by another's proximity.
"Bales' civilian attorney, John Henry Browne, said Friday without commenting on the specific charges that he believes the government will have a hard time proving its case"
I don't see how this would be a hard case to prove, but if that's true, I bet the prosecution seeks the death penalty in hopes of having Bales accept a plea for a lesser charge.
it is hard to prove because there is no direct evidence that he did it. The forensic evidence is gone or ruined. There is not a single person who will be brought to testify as an eye witness. No photos, video, no ballistics, no nothing. The government still needs to build a case just like any other trial though there are quite a few nuances to military law and he will be tried by a jury of servicemen and women. Military juries tend to be less forgiving than civilian juries.
Turning him over to Afghanistan government would be terrible... lets not totally forget this man has been a hero in the past and we still do not fully understand his mental state at this time or what he was going through when he ALLEGEDLY went on the rampage.
No forensic evidence ring a bell? Can they actually get a witness in court that can identify Bales as the shooter? See a small problem on the prosecuters side.
On c-span 3 I heard a Senator ask General Allen what he knew about military doctors changing diagnosis of PTSD to pre-existing mental disability therefore stripping the soldier of his honorable discharge and veterans benefits. According to the Senator there is an investigation in progress now in most military hospitals and especially the one near Lewis-McChord. If that has been done then the army has a lot of explaining to do and we should keep an eye on this so it does not get whitewashed.
How about the fact that he turned himself into base security and said "I did it" when asked about the murders? I read that statement in the first article about this case a while back...seems everyone's forgetting that he actually confessed to it..
He may mean that proving the case of murder. He may plead insane. I mean, his life at home was falling apart along with his buddies blown apart, multiple terms in Irag, head and foot injuries etc...
I think what really put him over the edge was his wife wanting to leave him and he may be blaming the war etc... for this.
You figure all he has been through for his family and country and he loses his wife because she was "lonely" which basically shows that she has no respect for him and what he went through.
Out...
@CreekDog
I think you bring up an important distinction. Proving that he did it and proving premeditated murder are two different things. Even without a ton of physical evidence, proving that he did it should be a no-brainer. Proving premeditation will definitely be more difficult.
They'll have this guy in front of a firing squad before that POS Hasan even goes to trial. Our "Apologist for the evil, Christian USA in Chief" will see to that.
Ha! You REALLY hate him, don't you? And he'll be re-elected with ease, so you can suffer for another 4 years. Eat your heart out. ;-)
Oh! Hasan is a POS but Bales is a hero, ha?!
YEAH SAY WHAT HASAN IS A POS!!! AND OBAMA SUCKS! He is a wuss with no backbone..Its funny he apologized for what SSG Bales did but did anyone apologize to Bush for what they did on 9/11???????????????
I'm a Texan and I will wait for the trial in June or July for Major Hassan. I would hope that our media carries it without it's usual slanted bias. Those women secretaries weren't attacking anyone either.
Fine, Hasan is a POS and so is guy. So stop defending Bales.
Quit defending Criminals ............BOTH Hasan and Bates are Murdering scumbags!
There are No Bigger Cowards than those who shoot and kill women and children in their sleep
Whatta man ..... spit!!!!
Hassan goes on trial in June.
Amazes me the hate for President Obama who, by the way, ended the wars...got the bad guy. Wow, so much hate. Why don't any of you hate George or Dick? They started the whole mess? Never hear any bad words against them though. Guarantee you, if a Repub gets elected it will only be a matter of time before we have troops back over there. Greed...if you can't see it, you aren't paying attention or you are just plain ignorant.
Wow, Diverdown1, you really are delusional, aren't you? When did Obama end the wars? If the wars were ended, then why are our soldiers still fighting in the Middle East? Why aren't they all at home in the USA with their friends and family?
Stop smoking whatever it is you are smoking and get a grip on reality.
Waiting for the psychos to defend this guy because of the 4 tours and head trauma.
1-It's a volunteer military
2-He signed up to escape financial judgements against him
3-We all have issues but we don't go around shooting people
The main psyco in here is you.
rukidding - explain why you said that?
Not to mention he has a past filled with criminal and immoral behavior. Such as sexual assault, scamming the elderly, a hit and run, and others. Don't see how anyone could defend this guy.
It's amazing how the military doesn't do a background check on enlistees.
The financial one was pre service but unless you are a psychologist or a patient you wouldn't know the later problems could have been warning signs something was wrong. You can't go to a doctor and show your bleeding finger when your problem is emotional or mental. It comes out sometimes as sudden anger or alcoholism. My daughter had PTSD when she was 12 sometimes I just had to wrap my arms around her and hang on until the rage passed.
lonereb - So now we are here in this debacle, what do we do with this guy? A lot of patients out here had head traumas with consequent frontal lobe issues and personality and behavioral problems. How many of them do you think went out and did what this guy did? My point, there's always a defense for criminals. I don't doubt that Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill, in fact it's scary to think there are people that think he was not, but he deserved to die for what he did and so should this guy.
I haven't seen any defense of him yet
Before I even say this, I AM NOT DEMEANING OUR SOLDIERS WITH THIS STATEMENT. The sad fact is, the military has been lowering their recruitment standards ever since the first gulf war. The number of volunteers for the armed services was in decline since the mid 90's. Now, there are people serving with some pretty serious past criminal records...gang violence being a big one. They used to turn you down for really trivial things back then too. After I graduated high school in 1991, I decided that summer that I would enlist, but was turned back for having 3 separate shoulder separations and a previously scoped and cleaned up meniscus in my right knee in high school, and I was completely healed! I did really well on the ASVAB and was excited about enlisting too, I was bummed for a long while about that. It actually became a mess because my Air Force recruiter told me to not tell anyone about my injuries, and not put it on the forms I filled out, as he said they would never find out. Well, they DID find out, luckily I was not in any real trouble, but the recruiter was demoted and disciplined pretty severely. There were kids getting turned away then for skin conditions when I was there too if I remember correctly? I also knew a kid that was turned back for his weight and he wasn't even fat (about 5'9" 200lbs and pretty muscular, I know because he was on my wrestling team), he just didn't fit into the weight/height ratio they were looking for. He was told he could try again if he lost 15 lbs and I'm not sure if he ever tried again. Recruitment standards are WAY different than they used to be, which is pretty scary when you think about it.
CHUDD, the enlistment standards for the military have not been going down since the 90s. They did lower them some in the early part of the last decade because, the military was expanding, the economy was doing ok and two wars tend to make people less interested in the military. However, since the middle part of the last decade, the military has retained more than their quota, the economy went south and so people started enlisting more, the standards were then raised back. And by lower standards, I mean people who had minor convictions, or GEDs.
okay, I may have the time frame off by about 5 years or so then since I said mid 90's, but the standards were lowered, so isn't your correction a bit trivial? Also, getting this info from a friend currently serving in Qatar, the reason quotas were still being met is because the quotas were lowered. Had an email exchange with him yesterday about the Bales case...
JBLM has a horrible record of dealing with PTSD recent findings question the fact that the poeple in charge at that base have disallowed prior PTSD diagnosis and placed fragile soldiers back in combat. This base has an absolutely unexcusable rate of suicide for multiple deployed vets.
Heres the deal... premeditated- I guess when you are deployed you expect that you may have to kill people... drunk, disoriented from a brain injury, and PTSD.. really you plotted? This is a horrible end result to the fact that the military has had to staff this war/conflict with soldiers that have been severely injured on prior deployments or emotionally fragile from those deployments. We need to exit now not 2014. I am not excusing the action at all killing innocent civilians is not right. What I am saying is that this soldier deployed for a 4th time after traumatic brain injury from a base that has a horrible record of classifing soldiers as combat ready which is unacceptable. We need to step back and demand our military step up and accept their responsibilty.When soldiers are brain injured combat should not even be an option.The command at JBLM should be under review as well- it was under their watch this soldier was determined to be combat ready.
Read your history books Alexander the Great forward no forces have won in this country another Viet Nam without rubber trees- exit now.
Major Hasan killed what 13 servicemen right here in the US
No Major Hassan killed some servicemen, some civilians and wounded I think 32 more mixed service and civilian personel. Mixed women and men my cousins live in Killeen the town nearest Ft Hood And some work on the base.
he should be hung too F**k him too
Time to pull the troops out of Afganistan. We should have taken notes from when Russian was there for 10+ years. And to answer kcdad's question; he is an active duty soldier which makes him fall under the UCMJ-Uniform Code of Military Justice. Why wouldn't the US government or military have jurisdiction for this? And the real questions that should be asked is why he snapped? Repeated deployments, ptsd from being in a war zone. Don't bad mouth a soldier because he snapped. I feel sorry for him and his family. The military should have seen something like this coming from repeated deployments to a war zone.
Oh yes, we need to hurry up to convict and execute this guy to please the Afghans and Muslims. While the rest of us are still waiting on the trial of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, Muslim who killed 12 US soldiers and wounded another 31, right here in the US and on an Army base. By all means, let's hurry up and make the Muslim's happy. Personally, I think Bales should be tried just about 2 years after Hasan. Punishment...about the same, so let's wait and see what Hasan gets. Ironic isn't it.
Its not about pleasing the Muslims, its about justice. They should both be tried as quickly as possible and justice should be served, two wrongs doesn't make a right.
What do you think it's about plb618?
Hassan's trial begins in June. I don't know why you all keep bringing that matter up here. both are murdering scumbags.
That's great raddave. Banes trial should begin about June of 2014 then.
Why do you and so many other have to bring up Maj. Hasan? These are two different people in two different situations in two different trials and have nothing to do with each other. It isn't a case of one guilty one innocent, they are both guilty and will be found so but attacking one guy because of his faith is small minded and attacking a bunch of sleeping villagers for theirs is even smaller. Stop comparing these two.
Thats funny that you all are making those comments...What about Major Assan who killed all of those american soldiers at Ft Hood????? He is still waiting for trial, but yet they are pushing this guys case fast through the system. And the military has jurisdiction because he is a soldier therefore under the governments jurisdiction!
That is why the military is trying Hassan because they wouldn't turn him over to Texas for the civilians killed and wounded that day. There were non military secretaries coming out of the building that he shot. So all His bull about killing because they were enemies of the muslims doesn't wash here. If Texas had tried him he would already be on death row at Huntsville. And we are more likely to carry out sentence than the army is.
Hassan is being tried by the military because it happened on a military installation by a soldier.
3/23/12 Both USArmy Major Nidal Hassan & SSG Robert Bales need to be strapped to a post then
Death by Firing Squad ASAP
Truth be Told, I will be Dead & Buried before any of that happens 20 years from now
SPW "Airborne"
Go Big Red........
In our system of justice, including the UCMJ, how can they even bring charges? No bodies, no photos, no forensic evidence, no witnesses no anything. I am not condoning murder but we are a country of laws and justice and under our system this case must be dismissed.
When he got back he allegedly said "I did it." This guy was obviously part of it, the question is whether or not he acted alone.
He said I killed some men he said nothing about women or children. So even if his confession makes it into court it doesn't explain the discrepency.
We don't know what evidence they have. There has been no trial. All we know is that there is enough evidence that the military immediately identified him, got him the heck of out Afghanistan, then got him the heck out of the Middle East. The military didn't even try denying it--as they would have if there were as little evidence as you suggest. Deny, deny, deny--the military is very good at that with war crimes.
Perhaps he was covered with blood when they picked him up--perhaps he was sooty. The blood, particularly, would make it pretty easy to tie him to a crime if they could get blood samples from the relatives. Apparently, also, some soldiers went into the towns after the crimes--we don't actually know what evidence they gathered (photographs, at least, seem to have been taken).
In any case, dereliction of duty and disobeying a command are going to be very easy to prove--even if those charges haven't been brought yet, they will be. He can be charged, and he can be found guilty--possibly not of the killings, however, depending on what evidence they have. He has probably also already confessed--I expect they will try to get him to plead guilty to a reduced charge. I'm sure they will work on his sense of guilt over having put his fellow soldiers in such peril. I hope it works.
If a soldier shoots other soliders, he is at War. If the same solider shoots civilians...is he still a solider? Or just a murder? I do question jurisdiction. I don't know.
Good point Robert Duckworth. There is a fine line...and one that needs looking at. Sad stuff...all of it. A war that was for nothing. Many families lives are ruined, many of our military, many civillians. Just sad and all for Greed.
If a soldier purposefully shoots civilians he is a murderer.
Give this guy the electic chair then hang him
So whats the problem again....
bush and cheney murdered thousands based on lies, and they are scott free,charging someone with murder in afghanistan is like giving out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.
I don't know about a chair but maybe another prize ...
I sincerely hope this soldier does not face the death penalty.
I hope not either, lisa s. I hope not , either!
He won't.
NO MILITARY PERSONNEL have been executed in over 50 years.
ALL JOKING ASIDE, here - he'll likely spend the rest of his life in a mental institution. Awful that it had to come down to this. If only Bales hadn't been sent to this fourth tour. If only.
Don't worry, he won't. He will plead insanity and his tours etc... will prove that. Besides, if you ask me, anyone who kills 17 people has "GOT" to be insane to begin with.
Out...
I'm more interested at this point about the investigation I heard a Senator ask General Allen about on c-span3. It seems there are allegations that military doctors have been changing PTSD diagnosis to pre-existing mental disability as a cost cutting measure. The change will strip a soldier who reports PTSD of his veterans benefits. And under those circumstances we expect them to report problems? The government it seems doesn't like the fact that PTSD can be a lifelong condition for which they will have to pay.
yeah u right cause all he did was kill some innocent children
I don't believe in the death penalty. I would rather he sat in jail the rest of his life thinking about what he has done. It would also cost tax payers less to keep him alive if money is an issue to you.
It amazes me how quick the media is to dig up dirt on this brave seargent. Why don't they tell all the years he has served in unbelievable conditions? To expect to train our military to kill our enemy and then go have milk and cookies with them is something only Obama could approve of.
Brave seargents don't murder women and children in their sleep. Try again.
Exactly, Bush and the "pro-life" life crowd would applaud slaughtering children in their sleep.
They dug up the dirt to bury the innocents he murdered.
WilliamofRites, Afghan civilians aren't our enemy. Or do you feel that anyone who is Muslim is the enemy?
raddave, william is being sarcastic, I read his post before and he would agree with you.
He wasn't even brave enough to take himself out after slaughtering all those women and children in their sleep
WHATTA A C O W A R D!
justina777 The U.S. military does not teach soldiers to kill themselves after they kill an enemy, and YES under the definition of a Crusade which Bush declared this action to be, ANY Muslim was an enemy needing to be eradicated. AFfter all the previous Crusades were meant to eradicate the Islam religion from the face of the earth, why should this one be any different? CERtainly not because it was declared by a republican. l
Okay, I've been somewhat following this story and I must have missed something -
This soldier was over stressed from serving too many tours in Afghanistan, had a head injury on top of that, and was sent back into war; he was not mentally fit to serve. I understand that he was drinking that night he went out on his killing spree. What I don't understand is why he isn't getting the mental help he needs. No, I don't think he should be let free for those murders but, this is a man paid to kill, who saw his comrades and others killed, was not fit to be there, and is now being treated like a regular killer. He's not a regular killer, he's a paid killer who is war-shocked!
3/23/12 Ask Yourself this Question :
How does anyone come face to face with a CHILD then PULL THE TRIGGER & MURDER THAT CHILD NOT ONCE BUT 9 TIMES. THERE IS NO HONOR IN THE KILLING OF CHILDREN NONE !
PTSD, TBI, Multiple Combat Tours, Death of a Friend, Family Stresses, Depression
I have Served with many Soldiers that endured All of the Above, NONE of which Murdered Children.
NONE repeat NONE JUSTIFY THE MURDER OF CHILDREN.
SSG Robert Bales is NOT the Victim here, those AFGHAN CHILDREN ARE THE VICTIMS
Court Martial then Death by Firing Squad ASAP
SPW "Airborne' Drafted July 1969
u should read some other news sources. Not US. They suggest there were multiple us troops who did this. possibly mainstream media cover up.
I sit here and read comments from people who have zero clue about what life is REALLY like for our troops. First off, let me say that I do not condone what was allegedly done. HOWEVER, volunteer or not, the guy should not have been in theater. Moreover, how on earth this guy WALKED OUT of the compound is beyond me. The personnel that were on guard duty and in charge of the guard force should be put up for nonpunitive punishment at the least for dereliction of duty. Believe me, Bales is not potentially the only one with fault here.
For those who have not done time in the service and especially in a war zone you have no idea what people go through. While this would be snapping to the nth degree, it is not hard to imagine why this could happen. Most of those in uniform go because they signed up to do something you (in general) will not - fight for YOUR rights! So when the government says go you go where and when they tell you to go. You do it for your battle buddies, to help ensure they come home. In the end, you end up doing it so someone at home can bad mouth you for what you do. Again, I cannot condone what was allegedly done, but I can UNDERSTAND why it happens.
I said in another post that in my time in Iraq most of the folks I served with would have done the same thing if given a chance (with no fear of prosecution), myself included. I got criticized for the view by many who have never been shot at or seen a buddy sent home in a body bag. All I can say is call me when this happens. Call me when that 6 or 7 year old kid walks up to you and blows up tearing off your limbs and killing the man next to you. OH WAIT, they are just babies. See what you think then.
The moral of the story: Hajji does not care how old or what gender they are, they just want you dead because you don't believe in Allah. So at least TRY to understand why something like this can happen. The fact that it does not happen more is the true story here and a true testament to the men and women who have and who do serve to allow you to have the freedoms that you do.
This post wonderfully illustrates exactly why we shouldn't be there in the first place.
Thank you for that post, gopherguy.
Well said.
I also do not condone the actions of this one guy. I have served 20 years witht he Army and have too many deployments to talk about. I have seen the children planting IEDs and shooting my friends. I have had to snatch a knife out of a 7 year old hands because he thought he was going to just walk up out of the crowd and stab me. People get on this forum and start spilling all of their hate and saying what they would done in the middle of a fire fight but the truth is that you have no clue. Why this guy did somthing as stupid as this is beyond me, but you have no right to talk about what happens in a War zone unless you have been there. You want to have a say in this matter then pick up a rifle.
smartone-2729650
AMEN BROTHER!!!
The youngest child murdered was THREE. Hajj, Allah, Islam have nothing to do with the cold blooded murder of an innocent child, and is no excuse.
Smartone, that's why the brotherhood understands this guy and yet not agreeing with his actions. We really don't know what the last straw would be! When you're trained to do things; sometimes your training just takes over and when it is said and done, the same issue could be on your plate.
Things happens in seconds not minutes, evidently he was detached from all normal thoughts. If you think anything else may have occurred then maybe you need to see a doc, yourself. This is not normal thought process for anyone, soldier or not!
Like I said let the trial take place and unbiased.
This whole discussion is silly. Until the 6 or 7-year-old blows up, you don't know which children the TERRORISTS have strapped explosives to. Does this mean you get to shoot every single Afghani child who tries to approach you--given the fact that we are not at war with the Afghanis? Until the 7-year-old tries to stab you, because he doesn't understand what he is doing but is upset over the death of his mother and father and the fact that he is now going to starve, you don't know that this specific child is going to stab you.
I think that you should have a right to defend yourself--but, friend, if you didn't want to get involved in wars that are not a matter of one group of uniformed soldiers marching up in lines against another group of uniformed soldiers, then you shouldn't have gotten in the service. We haven't had simple wars like that since . . . golly, WWI? Yes, we have urban warfare now--and that is more ambiguous. And if you don't like the ambiguity of it, then don't get in the service.
A soldier pledges to obey orders--and unless that soldier has orders to kill anyone who comes near him/her, then that soldier does not get to shoot until the situation permits it. Does that put the soldier in harm's way--yes it does. Again, you sign up, you take the situation.
And, if you have to know, in the profession I am in, one cannot get rid of students who are mentally ill even after they have demonstrated that they are mentally ill, subtly make it clear that they are targeting you, trash your office, and slash your car tires. You also cannot refuse to teach the class that the student is in. Look up the death rate for teachers--you are probably going to be extremely surprised. And, no, we aren't allowed to carry weapons--not even tasers.
One accepts the parameters of one's job or one gets out. If this soldier couldn't take it, he should have gone AWOL or simply sat down and refused to follow orders, turned himself in, and gone to jail. He would have been better off.
What part of the CHILDREN WERE SLEEPING in their beds do you not understand ?
In the Middle East War, unlike the Vietnam war, there have been no such cases of children strapping bombs to themselves.
You and your folks need to come home to protect the freedoms we are losing HERE within America. We can't go to an airport without being molested, so how have you been keeping our freedoms safe pray tell? So if it is ok for them to blow up their kids that means it's ok for us to kill their kids? I don't @!$%#ing think so. Can you enumerate those freedoms for me please? You do realize that you signed up for the military right? And that people die in the military? This isn't a @!$%#ing surprise. None of your little buddies would be being blown up if they were at home where they should be and not in another s sovereign nation. US out of EVERYWHERE!
Smartone. We have a say without a rifle because we are citizens which is more important than being a soldier.
Thank you beanathome
If you were under the kind of pressure & stress related syndrome in a war zone such as Afghanistan, who knows what you would be capable of, what happens during combat should stay in that combat zone. He must have witnessed his friends getting blown up and dying on any given day and finally snapped. This is not somebody who deliberately blows up a building or massacres people in Fort Hood, it is a soldier who simply lost control & the military should give him a psych evaluation as well as treat him until he can return to his family.