That would be easy. What race are they saying first??

This is not a hate crime. It is a fear tragedy.

FEAR = ENEMY OF LIFE

Who attacked who? Zimmerman was the agressor, and Trayvon was the victim. Trayvon was minding his own business, enjoying his snack.

Until Zimmerman asked what his business was. Trayvon ran away, Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle to wait for police, when Trayvon circled back and punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocking him to the ground.

At some point, the two got into a fight in the gated community and Zimmerman pulled out his gun.

Imagine if every brawl ended like this. Zimmerman thought a broken nose deserved a bullet. This is what makes concealed carry so very dangerous.

A race crime can be an Hispanic killing anyone of another race. White Americans tend to lump all minorities into one basket. But just as a white person can be prejudiced against a black person, an Hispanic can be prejudiced against an Asian, a person of Arabic descent can dislike American Indians, etc.... And, you can also have a friend or two of a certain race, and still be prejudiced against that particular race at the same time. We make exceptions for people we know personally, while still holding judgements against the group as a whole. The human mind/emotion is a complicated thing.

Hey Pedestrian-in-SF - If you got sucker punched by a kid / young adult / person you just got out-chased by (because he outran you BUT then he circles back to counter-attack you) wouldn't you think to pull a gun and 'defend' yourself? (OK, then you shoot to protect yourself)

How big were these two people? I keep seeing a young looking black kid and what looks like a grown up mexican guy and I want to know 5'11" & 175 or 5'5" & 140?

Those trying to say the boy attacked Zimmerman better go back to listen to the 911 call again and again and again. The timing does not allow for what you claim to have occurred. And had he done so then Zimmerman would have stated that the boy was coming at him. He didn`t. He shot. He killed. He was the aggressor based on his own words to 911. That he did not feel threatened will be based on his words on the 911 tape. His words will be used in court to find him guilty of premeditated murder. Premedidated because he took a gun with him. He pursued the victim. He shot the victim.

As for a hate crime. I guess when they clean up the tape the words will show whether he used racially charged words typically used by someone that is expressing racial hatred toward another.

By the way......Latino is not a race.

Being part of a Neighborhood Watch, is suppose to be exactly that, a Watch... Not packing a gun and trying to be a wannabe cop... This is simply a grown man, larger in size, packing a firearm, and pursuing a boy, seventeen y/o boy, who was doing nothing other than walking home from a store... Period...

The dispatcher told Zimmerman that he need not follow the boy and yet he continued and eventually shot and killed him in cold blood... It's as plain and simple as that... Zimmerman needs to be arrested, charged and let a jury decide...

However, being that it's Florida where this took place, and Jeb Bush's stand your ground bill that he signed, I'm pretty sure Zimmerman will walk...

MFiffick - Three witnesses saw Zimmerman on the ground getting pummeled, and yelling for help. He had a wound on the back of his head, blood and grass stains on his back, and a bloody nose.

You can read, or listen to, what one says here - http://tinyurl.com/7joryws

The voice of fear -

"He's here now just looking at all the houses. Now he's just staring at me...He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?" - 911 call from Zimmerman

Zimmerman was handcuffed after police arrived and taken into custody for questioning but was released by police without being charged. Police have interviewed Zimmerman two times since then.

"When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable." ~ Bill Lee, Police Chief

Oh man! Skittles must be a lot deadlier than I ever thought! Or was it Trayton who was standing his ground against a rabid "I am a big man because I have a gun" idiot? If Trayton had been armed and killed Zimmerman, you can bet he would have been arrested. Where does this self defense crap come from when it was Zimmerman that provoked whatever reaction Trayton had? Trayton was probably fighting for his life. Pull a gun on me and you will be facing a wild animal. The eyes would be the first target and there would be no fixing them if I got that far. It would be difficult to remember you even had a gun when your eyes are being clawed out. Where in the HELL does Zimmerman's right to harass Trayton come from? Self defense against a provoked attack? What a pile of CRAP!

"Right after the shooting he couldn't stop crying," said Joe Oliver.

Most likely because he knew how much trouble he was in.

Until Zimmerman asked what his business was. Trayvon ran away, Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle to wait for police, when Trayvon circled back and punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocking him to the ground.

Prove it ... you can't.

I followed that link you posted and read it. Not THREE witnesses, ONE and not even sure what he saw. But the bottom line, had Zimmerman stayed in the car where he belonged ... and NOT followed a kid with candy ... would not have happened.

As to the Police Chief's quote, yes they were prohibited based on ZIMMERMAN'S statement. Well, the kid certainly couldn't tell his side, now could he? And it was also "facts AT THE TIME". Well, I guess wehave some more facts now ... like the kid on the phone, the 911 dispatcher telling Zimmerman NOT to follow the kid.

Until Zimmerman asked what his business was. Trayvon ran away, Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle to wait for police, when Trayvon circled back and punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocking him to the ground.

I'm guessing that the photograph on the net of Zimmerman was taken shortly after this. I don't see any bruising or marks on the guy's face. Knocking down someone a hundred pounds bigger than you takes a lot of force--his nose would have been broken.

Beth, he saw Zimmerman on the ground, screaming for help, and getting pummeled. At least two others corroborate that story.

Zimmerman's story does not have to be proven. The burden of proof falls on others to prove it is not true. That is the American way, and the law.

"Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department." ~ Bill Lee, Police Chief

Most likely because he knew how much trouble he was in.

You are absolutely right! He really f-ed up and he knows it. That's why he's crying.

He used excessive force in a situation he created and a he killed an unarmed kid. He should be crying.

I wouldn't call it a hate crime, I doubt Zimmerman hates black people. I would call it an ignorance crime. Zimmerman had preconceived notions that any black person in his neighborhood was obviously up to no good. It is documented that Zimmerman previously had called police on 40 occasions to report "suspicious characters" in the neighborhood, and the one thing those 40 people had in common is that they are black. Is that racist? It's a thin line, but I'd say no, it's a case of profiling. Is every middle eastern person on a plane going to hijack it and fly it into a building? Of course not. But are there passengers that feel uneasy when they see a middle eastern person board their flight? Of course there are. That doesn't mean they hate middle eastern people, it just means they have a preconceived notion about middle eastern people because of what a very small percentage of them have done. Zimmerman is a murderer, no question. He hunted this boy down and shot him in cold blood. Even if there was a fight, he initiated the confrontation, so his self defense argument doesn't hold water. Did he murder Trayvon because of some deep seeded hatred for black people? Probably not. It sounds like he did it because he made an assumption about someone based on ignorance. Does that make him any less guilty? Hell no.

How do so many people have absolute knowledge about the events of this case that are so different from one another? Could there be a little be of media hyping going on here?

t's amazing how easily people pick and choose exactly what they want to believe are the facts of the case based on the hear-say of internet reports. Internet reports whose sole purpose is to get lots of advertising money from as many readers as they can stir up. Reports based on interviews with people who may simply be looking for their own 15 min of fame.

One Newsvine poster proclaims exactly what happened, and then reports that a jury should decide. What if the jury sees it differently than this poster?

One of the six tapes I listened to indicates that Zimmerman was 'on top... of someone else...getting up...and the other (form or person) laying on the ground was not moving.'

The tapes tell it all in addition to this woman who has come forth. Justice will be served in spite of Zimmerman's lies. "Wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind fine.” ~Sun Tzu

Pray for justice for Trayvon! Blessings.

The gated community has been experiencing many break-ins. This sets up a high level of rear and anger.

Some years ago, while staying in a neighborhood in Dallas, a child in the neighborhood had recently been snatched from their sleeping bed and was eventually killed. This set up fear. I was visiting and the neighborhood had hired a group to patrol the streets. Most of the houses were equipped with alarm systems that frequently went off during the stay. Most yards had fences and now people were putting up tacks on the top of the fences to keep intruders out. BTW, at that time, many neighborhoods in Dallas were routinely vandalized because so many worked all day and the homes were empty. The back alleys made it possible to drive up and steal and then leave. Again, I am pointing out how scared people get when crime isn't solved.

Zimmerman's fear or anger over what it was doing to his "safe" gated community and thus the very sad event. The problem with "not following" is that by the time the police get there, the intruder is gone. And so another night of worry begins because the issue isn't solved. I am not blaming police, nor the community, but pointing out that it isn't so simple to just call the police and let them handle it.

Fear is a real motivator but it often is so emotional that good judgement is impaired.

This article left out that there is now a bounty on Zimmerman's head by the New Black Panther which is only interested in killing this man and not waiting for justice to take over. These are their words. Where is the public outcry about this?

Our society does not really believe in our government to do the right thing. When the Justice Depart dropped the case against the New Black Panther in Philly with regards to voter intimidation that was a huge mistake because millions of people stopped trusting the government treated all people fairly regardless of race, political party, etc. So I understand the black community or any group that shows prove that bias is happening and nothing is being done to address this issue.

Zimmerman is a Hispanic, not a "white" Hispanic. This would be like saying that Obama is a white black because his mother was in fact white. This is utter nonsense meant to blame whites for this extremely sad event.

We're blaming a white racist and the white racist mentality that implements a "Stand Your Ground" law...."Gee, we have all these guns around - might as well put them to good use!!"

Anybody defending hate crimes like this or the Bales massacre or the El Cajon murderers of that Iraqi woman is trailer park $hit with an IQ of 0 and NO shred of decency.

"Give americans the benefit of the doubt" - "yeah those innocents are evil or maybe a lib conspiracy or something ..."

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The photograph of Zimmerman was not recent anymore than the photos of Trayvon are recent. Zimmerman is now 40lbs lighter than he was in the photo and Trayvon is at least 4 years older and 6'3" tall. And it doesn't matter in the least who was involved Kill Whitey is the slogan. So if the case goes wrong I suggest anyone who is white stay home because you will be a target on the street and no one from the federal government will investigate your death since according to Eric Holder discrimination against whites cannot happen in this country.

Here's the whole problem that I have with the "Stand your ground" defense. Zimmerman chased Martin. IF this counts as self defense, every burglar, drug dealer, aggresive individual could use this defense! "Oh yeah, I chase that person and broke into their house, but we started fighting and I was scared for my life." All of a sudden the law meant to protect people falls in favor with the aggressors instead.

" brought to mind the 1955 slaying of Emmitt Till, a 14-year-old black boy from Chicago who was shot and bludgeoned to death while visiting Mississippi for supposedly whistling at a white woman."

LMAO. That is a real stretch. Not even close. The only resemblance is a black person.

I'd like to know why blacks don't get this upset over the killing they do to each other???? You hear about so many little black kids getting killed by other blacks that it has become common place.

If they did maybe it would stop.

My wife's six year old son was leaving his grandmothers house when he was shot and killed by a black woman blazing away at her boyfriend. No marches. No demonstrations. No one walking out of school. Because he was white I guess. Although the shooter did end up in prison.

It's also worth pointing out that the family of the victim is doing its best to hide a lot of information about the victim. Every picture you see of Treyvon Martin are are from a long time ago when in reality he was 6'2" and allegedly a 'muscular football player'. Do you know why he was walking around at the time of the incident on a school night? Because he was recently suspended from school for 5 days and they don't hand out a long suspension like that for mouthing off or any kind of verbal altercation. The family of the victim is trying to make sure his school record isn't made available to the public and it's allegedly b/c he has a history of violence.

I think what occurred is a real tragedy, but a lot of people are jumping to conclusions on both sides of the argument without waiting for all of the facts to become public. At this point, 'the community' won't be satisfied unless Zimmerman is, at the very least, given a very long jail sentence and we all know what happens when these kinds of decisions don't go the way people want.

I don't know whether this crime was racially motivated or not. None of us do, at this point. Zimmerman, for sure, was acting ignorant, paranoid and idiotic. However, I can say this is exactly why those against concealed carry laws are 100% right. Did conceal and carry make that FL neighborhood safer that day? Heck, no. A kid with Skittles was gunned down.

@What is a white Hispanic.

White Hispanic and Latino Americans are citizens and residents of the United States who are racially White and ethnically Hispanic or Latino.

It's not some new term invented by the media. Search for the term on Wikipedia. One good example of White Hispanic would be Ramón Antonio Gerardo Estévez, also know as Martin Sheen.

Minority on Minority, a armed person playing policeman, a stupid avoidable tragedy, when to use a gun ,and when not to use a gun, unless trained, the people today are clueless, at close range, a leg shot will disable any aggressor, untrained people, react to fast, without thinking, that is how situations such as this happen; let us all wait for the police investigation, before we whip up a mob frenzy.

Freedman, just because Trayvon was seen beating on Zimmerman doesn't necessarily mean that Trayvon started it. For all we know, what witnesses saw was a fight that Zimmerman started, but Trayvon got the upper hand in before Zimmerman pulled out his gun.

If Trayvon truly is the aggressor as you think he is, then what's his motive for attacking Zimmerman? Why would a bright young man with no criminal record, who was only suspended from school for tardiness but was nonetheless beloved by friends, family, AND school teachers attack a complete stranger after buying candy and tea from a convenience store?

As for Trayvon wandering the neighborhood, for all we know he probably took a wrong turn and got lost, and was checking out houses because he wasn't sure which one was his father's.

The people of Spain are no longer considered White?

People make too much over racial identities, as a determinant of character, intelligence and attitudes. But to characterize all Hispanics as non-White would be as misleading as characterizing all U.S. Citizens as White. Our nation is a mix, as is most of the Western Hemisphere. Some people from Latin America are almost purely of Spanish descent. Some are of Native American extraction. Some have African roots. Most... are a mix.

To characterize this guy, Zimmerman as a non-White Hispanic based upon the country of his ethnic roots, is a silly oversimplification.

Let's look at the facts of shooting, and see if, as seems likely, a crime was committed. As to Mr. Zimmerman's racial attitudes, and what part they played, let's keep in mind that he could be an ardent racist and still might have acted in self-defense, or he could be a member of the Rainbow Coalition, who lost his head (or his temper) and used his gun when such action was unjustified.

freedman1, YOU offer no more 'evidence' to any facts than Police Chief Bill Lee could, it is all conjecture. There were 'reports from witnesses' that Trayvon was on top because he had a RED SWEATER on, ummmm didn't he have a HOODIE? You are saying a person who has done something as heinous as Zimmerman did, and tells the police how it happened in HIS own words as being FACT, and the Chief parrots Zimmerman's FACTS. No evidence other than some bloody nose/back of head, and grass stains (you know, NO SIMPLE investigation procedures like gun powder residue, drug/alchohol testing, clothes, how Trayvon was shot via ballistics). Of course the police dept. couldn't wait to get blood testing done on the victim, or leave him in the morgue for 3 days, or had his cell phone that his parents tried to call, or didn't check his hands for marks/blood stains showing he was hitting Zimmerman or any other body contusions.

Freedman -- I was meaning YOU prove YOUR comments ... beause the only source you listed certainly does not.

There is ONE "eye witness" who that said Zimmerman was on the ground. The witness says NOTHING about seeing Martin circling back and "punching Zimmerman in the nose" which is what YOU assert. So again, I say PROVE IT!!!!

Oh yea, the eye witness thing in general ... probably the LEAST credible evidence there is. I'd look up some statistics on that if I were you ... they are dismal on eye witness accuracy.

And finally, why don't you address the point of WHY Zimmerman was out of his vehicle chasing the kid in the first place when the dispatcher clearly said NOT TO???? Oh, because that doesn't jive with your "facts"?

Ok freedman, yes he did approach Zimmerman, to which the operator told Zimmerman to say if Martin did anything else. Martin did nothing to Zimmerman at that point, instead he turned around and ran. Why did he run, I don't know, but if Martin knew the cops were being called on him, and knowing the racial undercurrents with the PD(Sanford PD has a history of not doing anything until being forced to if there is a black victim involved, or being malicious when a black person is being accused. There are two incidents that echo this case in terms of police handling, one in 2009-2010 and the other in 2005), he probably knew it would not go well with him. He did not attack Zimmerman at that point. Zimmerman then decided to pursue Martin, and told the operator he was pursuing Martin when the operator asked if he was pursuing Martin. The operator told him to not pursue the kid. Other 911 calls that night report hearing someone yelling for help, and then a single gun shot. Now given the current evidence one would believe that Zimmerman is the aggressor, especially since Martin was trying to get away by Zimmerman's own words from his 911 call, and Zimmerman pursued him. Now I don't know about you, but if I am being attacked, and I have a gun, I am not going to be the one screaming for help.

freedman1,

You can argue it any way you want, the facts are that Zimmerman stalked the kid, then confronted him and then, after Trayvon attempted to drive off the stalker, Zimmerman shot him. The 911 call makes it inarguable that Zimmerman was the aggressor and Martin was the victim.

Self defense against what? A black male wearing a hoodie walking home minding his own business? The threat that night was George Zimmerman because he thought he was a big man with a gun.... he thought he was Da Man.

This just goes to show that if you carry a gun it will fill you with self importance and a sense of power you don't normally have. Much like petty criminals and gang bangers. George's choice to carry a weapon made him stupid and FL's Stand your Ground only sanctioned his stupidity and criminality.

Racism? Well this is the South where many still consider blacks second class citizens and what not.

It appears that Zimmerman was in the right. You can bring all the little innocent boy pictures you want and post them with wanted posters for Zimmerman, but frankly, i think justice was served,

Let's see, Harry, young Trayvon Martin was walking to his father's fiancee's house, carrying candy and iced tea, objects not commonly used in house-break ins. George Martin, seeing a black male on foot, disregards the advice of the police, whom he called, follows the youth, and then a fight ensues.

We don't know if George Zimmerman actively accosted Trayvon Martin. But if somebody was obviously following me, I might turn to ask what his intentions might be. So, by the evidence, George Martin was the aggressor, and the only mistake Trayvon made was in bringing only his fists to a gun fight.

On the surface, Zimmerman strikes me as a coward, who instigated a confrontation with an unarmed man, and then used his gun to end it.

I'm very glad that I do not live in your neighborhood.

nothing to be said about this case..just a passing thought of; people's/ mens hands..they can be very Lethal, which explains, why Cops handcuff your hands behind your back..aggressiveness can put Fear into minds, not knowning of an immediate way to protect oneself..the public does not know enough about this case to judge..yes, it is very Sad how people treat one another..some have to push buttons, go a bit further of creating problems..pushing things beyond the norms/ limit, bold trespassing etc..go through the Presidents Gated grounds without warrant, you may be shot/ arrested for being a terrorist..people have to Learn; Respect of Rules, of Law & Order..Please Don't push IT !!,,then CRY Later about it..i feel for the lost Son, it's SAD..however, i cannot judge, i wasn't there..i will Not become part of a; Lynching party..

Imagine taking the gun out of this situation, you might have ended up with a couple of people with bloody noses and scraped knuckles, but they both would have still been alive. Guns kill people, instantly and without mercy. Fists, however, at least give you a chance to stop pounding on a person before you do too much damage. If the shooter did indeed cry after killing this young man, then he probably wouldn't have beaten him to death using his fists. You can't put the bullet back in the gun, but you CAN pull your punches.

Better yet, why the need for ANY violence? When guns are concerned people feel no need to have a conversation. (Shoot first and ask questions later)

Harry0052,

You are arguing that ANY young black man walking down the sidewalk is a criminal BECAUSE he is walking down the sidewalk?

how long will it take someone to ''stand your ground'' with this guy zimmerman??

anyone who runs into him is going to want to pull their gun, in self defense, and shoot him, since he has a history of doing the same with innocent people.

don't think zimmerman has much life expectancy in him. and the way he was bawling, i would say he knows it.

i give him about a month after the trail is over. if he goes to prison, well, then i would give him about-------- 2 weeks.

This act of violence does not apply to that Stand Your Ground law---why because Ziimmerman Superior told him specifically to leave the kid along and he chose not too. He frucked up and needs to pay for killing an innocent child whose only weapon was a bag of Skittles.

No matter what fabrication his lawyer comes up with, Zimmerman acts were above and beyond duty and the law! He profiled this child and committed straight point murder nothing more or less. And it is said when he testify and his lies will not be challenged for the Victim cannot speak for himself!

ASureBet,

Introducing a completely different incident is a way of avoiding any effort to examine THIS story.

lonereb - You're delusional. First of all, no one is saying Kill Whitey. A handful of people are saying "Kill Zimmerman", and that's because he killed an unarmed boy. And I'm not saying that it what they are saying is right, either. Just don't go twisting things around and making it worse that it is. Second of all, no matter what size either of them were, Zimmerman stalked him, and Zimmerman killed him. If Zimmerman hadn't followed him, none of this would have happened. If Zimmerman listened when the police told him to stop following him, this wouldn't have happened. The whole point is, THEY DIDN'T EVEN ARREST ZIMMERMAN!!

Self-defense is a trial defense. The cops should not be able to make that call without an investigation. And one cannot say they investigated, because if one was to listen to the 911 calls made, it is clear that there was enough cause to arrest him and let the courts decide. What, are they just taking people at their word now? If so, what's the point of having investigators at all? What's the point of having a justice system when you have the honor system? Because humans are soooo honest, right?

In Florida in 2010, a 69-year-old man with the surname Dooley (I forgot his first name) walked on to a basketball court because he was angry that someone was skateboarding there. A 41-year-old US Marine veteran with the surname James (forgot his first name too) was there with his daughter, he saw that Dooley was armed, and he went to disarm him. In the struggle that ensued, Dooley shot James, killing him. The case isn't over yet, but due to the Stand-Your-Ground-Law, he may go free. Now, in this case, Dooley is a Black man, and James was White. Although James was a Marine, and although he was over twenty years younger than Dooley, and although JAMES is the one who started the confrontation, Dooley was still immediately arrested.

Why is it that Zimmerman (who STALKED Trayvon, who is over twenty years older and at least 50 lbs heavier, and who was told by the police to STOP following him) hasn't even been arrested yet??

This is about race, but it isn't the main concern. The main concern should be the fact that this law is WAAAY to broad, and such precedents should NOT be set. Vigilantism should NOT be acceptable; this country will go to hell in a handbasket if that's the case.

I don't know whats wrong with this world. Racism against Africans is world wide. I have lived in several countries in my life and its always the same, even in South East Asia. Always the same issues, always the same hate...it needs to stop.

This is all about anti-gun regulations for President Obama, so even he is exploiting this situation.

Since it very clear that Zimmerman is a person who owns, carries and has used his gun to kill another person, I think anyone he approaches has reason to fear him and therefore has the legal right to shoot him dead.

There is no doubt, I believe, that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed man/boy. That issue is not in dispute, killing someone, is in fact a crime. What is in disput is whether those actions are justifiable. The fact he did kill someone and that act can be proved would in most cases allow an arrest. At that point a district attorney could weigh the relative merrits of any defense. If there is sufficient question, the matter could/should be sent to trial for resolution.

If the police do not arrest, the district attorney can impanel a Grand Jury and obtain a bill of indictment. At that point, a defense attorney could request that a judge dismiss the case because of insuffient evidense to support the charges.

Beth - I'm not trying to prove Zimmerman's story. How could I possibly do that? I am trying to relay his story to you. It's the story that was told to police, and there is corroborating evidence that Zimmerman was attacked by young Trayvon.

Zimmerman was afraid. Trayvon was afraid, according to reports by Trayvon's girlfriend. Both men handled their fear differently, and most likely, both handled it incorrectly. In Trayvon's 17 year old mind, according to testimony, attack was the best thing to do. That apparently was wrong.

Fear begets fear. I do have a right to question suspicious people in my neighborhood. How I go about doing that plays a role in the end result. I have also been questioned by others regarding my activities. Each and every time I have been questioned by concerned people, I responded with a smile and my story. Never with a fist. I have always had positive outcomes from these interactions.

Stryg,

"There is no doubt, I believe, that Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed man/boy."

What do you mean, unarmed? The boy was armed with a deadly bag of Skittles and an ice tea bomb as well. No wonder Zimmerman is claiming self defense! :)

Jack why didn't you begin one she is your sister and as the childs uncle why not you?

Zimmerman says his nose was broke in the altercation....what do you want to bet it was recoil? Anyone else think this is possible?

The killer "Zimmerman" never identified himself to Martin... Martin said to his girl friend on the phone, "This dude is following me." she said "Run" The killer continued to follow this seventeen y/o boy even after he lost sight of him momentarily... Zimmerman second mistake was getting out of his truck and stalking his victim...

Zimmerman needs to man-up and pay the price for taking an INNOCENT boy's life... I don't give a rat's behind about race... This is simply vigilante hunting his weakest victim...

Guarantee if it were a 25 y/o linebacker that Zimmerman approached, the story would have a different ending...

Why would anyone have to obey or answer any command from Zimmerman? He was not in uniform or driving a marked vehicle. He had no authority to confront or apprehend anyone. If it was legal for him to stand his ground, it should be legal for me to stand mine. If a Zimmerman type ever approaches me, he's getting a face full of lead just on general principles.

Stryg - Zimmerman was arrested. Hauled to police precinct in handcuffs. He was subsequently released without charges. Evidence has now been presented to the Attorney General to review, and he has called for a Grand Jury to evaluate this evidence. This is how the system is supposed to work. Let it work, I say.

If a man is charged incorrectly, the risk is a guilty man will be released. It took two years to draw charges on Drew Peterson, because there was not enough evidence to dispute Drew's story. But Peterson is in jail right now, awaiting charges.

Those that place a $10,000 bounty on the head of an innocent man should themselves be arrested and charged. Every man is assumed to be innocent unless otherwise proven. I don't think any American would want to change that. Did you know in China, when you are arrested you are assumed to be guilty? Why else would the police arrest you? You then must prove the police were wrong. China has the highest capital punishment rate in the world.

What is A White Hispanic

Being serious here I have a question ? If this is a Race/Hate Crime what race are we blaming ?

Here is a serious answer. If this is a "Race/Hate Crime" we are not blaming a race. We would be blaming a person, George Zimmerman. Whatever the race of George Zimmerman others of that racial identity do not share in any crime he may have committed.

Sean, you're right. I don't have an obligation to tell anybody anything when asked. I choose to do so, however, because I really don't have anything to hide, and I have found it to be a great way to avoid confrontation. This is my choice, you might make another.

p.s. - you also do not have a right to punch me in the nose.

The FACTS of the INCIDENT are going to bear out. FACT: A pursuant continued to pursue when specifically instructed not to. FACT: Derrogatory, implicatory and accusatory language was used by the pursuant/shooter. FACT: From what the public knows, pursunat/shooter/Zimmerman did not seek Emergency Department Care for potential injuries to be documented in the event the case ever came to trial. FACT: We (the public) do not have knowledge that Trayvon Martin acted in manner other than self defense (girlfriend stated from cell phone conversation that Trayvon Martin thought he was being followed by a "child sexual predator." FACT: Trayvon Martin is dead from a single gunshot wound to the chest without any attempts to save his life. FACT: Mr. Zimmerman never acted as a reasonable and responsible person, attempting to seek out family of the person he shot with Police (unarmed) and explain his side of the story and attempt to apologize. He went into hiding. If he was truly was acting in self defense, he has nothing to hide. If he was crying, why was he not sent to crisis intervention by the Sanford Police Department in order to get his state of mind documented by Health Professionals? Zimmerman acted in the worst manner possible under this horrific Stand Your Ground Law: He reacted; He assumed; He was not under direct threat to his life (an unarmed teen?) He completely disregarded instruction from a professionally crisis trained 911 dispatcher (by law they all must be rigorously trained in emergent situation management), Self Defense is going to be a difficult defense if there is no medical documentation of his injuries. The cadaver of Trayvon Martin probably does not have any documented wounds other than the fatal gunshot wound to indicate a struggle (skin scraping or bruising to his hand used to come into contact with Zimmerman). Trayvon Martin at age 17 years did not reach his full height/weight potential. Men do not stop growing until age 20 years to 21 years of age. Do not assume that Trayvon Martin was as big as Mr. Zimmerman. It is amazing how few of you can look at this or any situation globally, using your entire brain function. An innocent 17 Year old boy is dead. A pursuant who shot him without Police Training is not incarcerated for killing someone else's son who had his entire future ahead of him. Where do you get your information about the boy being on a five day suspension from school? The school cannot release such information without parental permission. The media does not have whole and free access to any information about minors in this Country. I seriously doubt that the Attorneys for for the family would agree to releasing this information. It would become prejudicial in view of a criminal or civil lawsuit.

Stand Your Ground is not a new Florida principle. This is 117 year old principle that applies to anybody in the United States, by decision of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Here's how it came to be:

In Ohio, about 130 years ago, a man was standing in a shed, where he had a right to be. A man came in, and after angry words were exchanged, the new entrant raised an ax in a threatening manner, and approached the first man, He was warned not to enter, not to come closer. But closer he came with axe at the ready. When he was about in striking distance, the first man shot the guy dead. The man was convicted of murder, because he made no attempt to retreat.

The conviction was overturned on appeal, and upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. The ruling? "A true man, who is without fault, is not obliged to fly from an assailant, who by violence or surprise, maliciously seeks to take his life or do him enormous bodily harm."

Ah, the rush to judgment and condemnation without all the facts. You gotta love it. It's really amusing reading some posters that postulate various scenarios to fit with their outrage.

What are all these people going to do if the investigation doesn't turn out like they hope it will?

@ Whitefeather

Where do you get your information about the boy being on a five day suspension from school? The school cannot release such information without parental permission.

Well apparently it did. We can assume that the parents gave permission to have this information released in order to show how kind and harmless Trayvon really was.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-24/trayvon-martin-friends/53744670/1

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html

And of course, the article you just read. I could go on and link more, but I don't have alot of time right now.

When you're looking through the article, hit CTRL-F and type in "suspended." They all say he was suspended for 5 days for tardiness.

freedman,

Zimmerman was not arrested. He was temporarily detained and subsequently released based solely on his claim of self defense. There was no investigation to prove Zimmerman's story. Zimmerman has a record of assault that was never found as it was never looked for. He is still in possession of his gun. There was no collection of physical evidence that would have supported the claims of a fight having taken place. Trayvon Martins cell phone was never put into evidence and is now missing. No blood alcohol or drug test was performed on Zimmerman as was done to Martin.

Relax people, black white yellow, or what ever the color your nasty mug. No one on this post KNOWS squat bout what happened. If Zimmerman is guilty, he'll be found guilty and pay the price. Also, sounds like the youngster that lost his life wasn't quite the 12 yr old the media has been showing. Sounds like he was wuppin the dudes ass. Far cry from the media pics. LET THE SYSTEM WORK DID FOR OJ

Even though this may not be a hate crime, thousands have turned it into a racial issue by publicly prosecuting Zimmermam based upon hearsay evidence that as of yet has not been vetted. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty, does that go out the window when people of different races are involved ?..How can anyone say they are proud to be an American when lynch mobs publicly convict someone and some place a bounty on a mans head before all the facts have been presented........sickning

Fear begets fear. I do have a right to question suspicious people in my neighborhood.

Freedman, - I would dispute that statement.

You as a private citizen have no right to accost, question or or impeded any other person in your neighborhood, or in any other public place.
You can certainly voice a question to a person you find suspicious, but they are under no obligation to respond in any manner. If you physically attempt to impede their progress, then I would say that you are the aggressor, and lose the ability to claim self defense in any physical altercation which ensues with an unarmed individual.
Zimmerman's best, and most lawful action would have been to watch the youth a discrete distance, and keep the police informed of any truly actionable behavior, such as an attempted break-in.

What actually occurred is somewhat murky, except that Zimmerman apparently approached closely enough to spark a response from Martin, and that matters escalated from that point until the 250 lb Zimmerman felt either compelled or justified in drawing his gun and using it.

I would not call that self-defense.

Harry - Great Power of Second Sight you have! How do you know "everyone making comments from California" are from California and making statements like "land of steers and queers" is hateful remarks. Some of us live in the Midwestern Region of the US. You must be the poster child for ignorance, stereotyping and hate from what is inferred on your post. Use your brain to post thoughtful commentary instead of spewing abbreviated accusatory hatespeech. After all, isn't that what's at issue here? Are you are part of the problem or part of the solution?

freedman1 -

"The voice of fear -

"He's here now just looking at all the houses. Now he's just staring at me...He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?" - 911 call from Zimmerman"

That's not fear, that's racial profiling.

If you're in fear, you call the cops. You don't get out of your car with a gun and challenge someone.

I don't know if everybody would agree with your definition of fear or not, Thinking American. We do, however, have two people with cell phones, and only one of them ever called the cops.

Sonner also reiterated what he had said in recent days, that Zimmerman suffered a broken nose and a gash to the back of his head.

--------------------

The headline blares that Zimmerman failed to help and the important and relevant facts having a bearing on the actual prosecution of a case somehow get buried as an "also"? This is poor journalism that further exacerbates what is already an ugly situation.

What if Trayvon had "stood his ground" and killed Zimmerman instead? What would the headlines be then? Would all of the haters on here be defending Trayvon for standing his ground? Hmmmm.....time to take a good, long, hard look in the mirror folks....

MrBubbs - I select my "News" quite carefully. I do not read USA Today and never have. New York Times and the Washington Post are my daily news Sources. I refuse to obsess about this case. If you feel it so important to put "tardiness" out there as a reason for suspension, look at the reason for his tardiness. Was it athletic practice after school and late night homework assignments keeping him up? Or was he just engaging in truant behavior? Truant behavior constitutes suspension or expulsion from athletic participation. What was his overall GPA? What was his overall conduct in classroom activity? Was he disruptive? Or was he like most teens with a boy/girl friend and late to class because of companionship/friendship issues? Apparently you don't know how to post fact very concisely. Don't put up a link assuming someone is going to use it. USA Today is a tabloid rag. That's why I do not read or engage it.

Freedman1: if I'm walking down a public street in a public area and somebody who's NOT a cop asks me what my business is, my answer is, "None of your f!#king business what MY business is."

dman - I'm not sure what you're disputing, then.

You can certainly voice a question to a person you find suspicious, but they are under no obligation to respond in any manner.

That is exactly right. Which means we are in agreement. There is no dispute.

I have both questioned others, and been questioned by others. This practice makes for a good and safe community.

SOMETHING HAS GOT TO
GIVE

SO THAT YOUNG
BLACK MEN CAN LIVE!

After all we have suffered throughout time and history
again,

Here it is 2012, and still there seems to be no justice for
the young black man!

An innocent young child, only 17 years old, was simply
walking down the street.

His name was Trayvon Martin; he was coming from the store
with a can of ice tea and a bag of skittles for the game to eat!

Because it was raining outside, he pulled his hoodie over
his head.

As he ran to get out of the rain, he was racially profiled,
and suddenly wound up dead!

The man who shot him was a non-black male that was 28 years
old.

He was carrying a nine millimeter handgun; as he had
appointed himself a neighborhood captain patrol!

Before he shot Trayvon, he dialed 911 to complain about the
way he dressed and looked.

He complained that”they’re always getting away;” so in
his mind he had already deemed Trayvon a crook!

As Trayvon was on his way back home, he was talking to his
girlfriend on the phone. He told her that this guy is following me; I wish he
would leave me alone!

Trayvon then asked why are you following me? And the
neighborhood patrol said what are you doing around hear? Trayvon’s girlfriend
then told him to run, and as he ran he was pursued and stalked in fear! Those
would be the last words from Trayvon Martin that his girlfriend would ever
hear!

As Trayvon was running to get out the rain, the neighborhood
stalker chased after him without any lawful right. Though he was warned not to
follow, he disregarded police protocol, and nonetheless pursued to start a
fight!

As Trayvon screamed for help, neighbors dialed 911 to report
the frantic cries. After the police arrived, they merely accepted the stalker’s
lies; leaving poor Trayvon Martin dead and blameful, in police reports and
racist eyes!

The fake neighborhood patrol was never arrested, never
questioned, was allowed to keep his weapon, and was then allowed to go home.
Meanwhile, while young Trayvon Martin was lying there shot, dead, helplessly
murdered, and sadly all alone!

The neighborhood patrolman claimed that he shot Trayvon in
self defense.

But he was 11 years older than Trayvon, plus over 100 pounds
heavier; therefore, his story simply made no sense! Plus he was carrying a nine
millimeter hand gun on top of all of that; yet somehow the police was still
made convinced?????

Although the neighborhood stalker pursued Trayvon in
disobedience to police commands. He claimed that Trayvon came after him, and
that’s how the altercation all began!

He also claimed that it was his own screaming and crying
that the 911 neighbors had heard. But yet directly after the weapon was fired,
the screaming stopped, and no one could hear another word!

As the world listened to the recordings of the 911 calls,

Everyone could hear poor Trayvon screaming for help in the
background through windows, doors and walls! But somehow the neighborhood
patrol was allowed to walk away under Florida’s
ridiculous Stand Your Ground laws!

It was so blatant and clear that the police department was
wrong,

It was destined to be mass chaos and uproar before too long!

And finally Trayvon’s parents surfaced to protest; and they
rightfully argued, cried and complained. Not only did they, but the whole world
shared their sorrow, their hurt and pain!

A young black man, who had no record of violence, theft, or
any crime;

Minding his own business where he had a right to be,
unjustly gone before his time!

Justice we demand for the murder of this innocent child, who
didn’t have a fighting chance. We demand the arrest and prosecution of the
shooter, who was allowed to go free, with the right to kill yet again!

The Sanford
chief of police was asked to resign, as the city found there was no trust in
his job. Rather than stepping down permanently, he merely stepped down
temporarily for the sake of protesting mobs!

A black city manager had the power to fire the police chief,
but he was hesitant like an Uncle Tom. He displayed fear, coward-ness, and
deceit; as if he faced danger or destined harm!

Although Al Sharpton pointed out clear facts where the
police unreasonably failed to perform; Yet for some strange reason, the city
manager allegedly still couldn’t see the wrong!

Yet, justice we demand. People are protesting all throughout
the land. Sooner or later justice must be served, because people plainly
understand. This was clear and unjust murder against an innocent and young
black man! It’s time that every decent and moral human being alive gets
involved and take a stand!

Something has got to give, so that young black men can live!

I agree...what could Treyvon do? was he not supposed to try to protect himself from this big fat guy with a gun? What did Treyvon do...throw his skittles at him? Did he attack him with the can of ice tea...please!!! gimme a break and if zimmerman has injuries, how do we know he didn't fake them after he murdered treyvon!!!!????

bassdad - That's your choice. Most of the time, it's not mine. The most recent time I was questioned was when I had cleaned out a bunch of large rocks from my yard. I ended up with a pile of 'em. So I'm thinking about what to do with them, and I came up with a solution.

I went to a large creek, a few miles from my house, and began to toss them in there. I figured there were already a bunch of rocks in the creek, a few more wouldn't hurt, and it was natural.

It wasn't long before a nearby resident came out and questioned what I was doing. I told him the above story. He told me that there had been some problems recently with people dumping tires and trash in that vicinity. We parted friends.

Sure, it was a public place. I could have showed the guy my middle finger in a gesture of free speech. I could have relayed that it was none of his business what the hell I was doing. But, I made an alternate choice.

We all make choices everyday. Sometimes, we wish we could get a do-over, but life does not work that way.

When it comes to criminal cases, we all are afforded the protection of presumption of innocence. In fact, we never have to prove a thing. Somebody else has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we are guilty. I like that law.

There is going to be a trial... There HAS to be a trial...

Until then it would help if we all stood back and let justice reign.

It does no good for anyone -- political leaders included -- to come out with inflammatory statements.

We have enough professional rabble-rousers who are willing to do that.

freedman1 -

"We do, however, have two people with cell phones, and only one of them ever called the cops."

How convenient of you to ignore that Zimmerman had time to call the cops, ignored their instructions to stay away, and that Trayvon likely did not have time to call the cops since he was being followed/challenged by a large dude with a gun. He had to end the call with his girlfriend to deal with the guy following him.

Your thinking that both of them had an equal opportunity to call the cops shows that you are biased in this matter by the way.

I have a permit and all instructors stress this point more than any other,

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Q. What if I see a crime being committed?

A. A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a
free-lance policeman. But, as stated earlier, deadly force is justified if you
are trying to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. The use of
deadly force must be absolutely necessary to prevent the crime. Also, if the
criminal runs away, you cannot use deadly force to stop him, because you would
no longer be "preventing" a crime. If use of deadly force is not necessary, or
you use deadly force after the crime has stopped, you could be convicted of
manslaughter.

He should have stayed in his vehicle like instructed by the 911 operator and as his instructor at the concealed weapons class he attended taught. also Florida has 10 - 20 - Life not sure how that will apply to this case. Might be why they are taking their time with charging him. They want to get it right. Zimmerman also loses a lot of defense arguments if charged with with any forcible felony , instead of Felony murder or First Degree Murder.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/

@Freedman

You're a clear thinking intelligent guy. You've given the honest facts as opposed to other posters ranting against you with imagined tales

Good work !

PLEASE!!!

There is going to be a trial... There HAS to be a trial...

Until then it would help if we all stood back and let justice reign.

It does no good for anyone -- political leaders included -- to come out with inflammatory statements.

We have enough professional rabble-rousers who are willing to do that.

Here's the deal. Since when does "Neighborhood Watch" arm themselves with pistols in the first place (how can that be lawful?), and by what authority does "Neighborhood Watch" hunt and kill children munching skittles and sipping iced tea? "Neighborhood Watch" is not a police force.

Sorry if others have already asked these questions.

Jay in ATL, time for your meds, bro.

Here you go, this ought shed some light on the actual facts of the case so you can go take a much-needed nap:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

Thinking American - You made this statement: "If you're in fear, you call the cops."

I don't know that I necessarily agree with your statement, but the fact is that Zimmerman called the cops, Martin did not.

Pointing that out is a matter of fact, not bias. Possibly your statement regarding fear should be modified?

free

Zimmerman was arrested. Hauled to police precinct in handcuffs.

What was the charge?

You keep talking about witness, the other day you started with one, today you said three. But you keep showing the same clip. What about the two that was on the news that said it was the boy who was crying for help? It happened right outside of their back door. Not in a parking lot, or near a parking lot. What, did Zimmerman pick him self up and run after the kid AGAIN then shoot him? Because he was shot on a sidewalk between to rows of apartments. Why did the police take this guy's gun? They let him take it home with him. Does that sound right to you? Since you like to figure out what happened, at least in your imagination. Don't you think the kid could have been scared when some guy at night starts to follow him around? Or do you thank a guy like zimmerman who had a gun on him; was really the one who was afraid?

freedman1--Zimmerman was not arrested. He was not taken to the police department. The Sanford police department states very explicitly that they could not arrest Zimmerman because of the stand your ground defense.

The "bounty" on Zimmerman has been placed by a group that the Southern Poverty Law Center calls "virulently racist and anti-Semitic." However, their "bounty" is only for the apprehension of Zimmerman (who is currently in hiding), and not for his death. Consequently, they cannot be brought up on charges of any type (sadly--remember, also, that this is a "new" and very small group that principally is looking for attention, probably has no money, and has no relationship to the actual Black Panther movement, long since disbanded).

In any case, you are completely confusing the Stand Your Ground law with the principal of self-defense. If self-defense were all that was at issue, there would be no problem. The Stand Your Ground law is a horse of an entirely different color. It prohibits the police from arresting a person unless there is already a preponderance of evidence showing that the person did not feel threatened. Thus, anyone who picks a fight with another individual (as long as no one is around to see it), waits until the other individual simply throws a punch (Zimmerman is only claiming a broken nose--which he probably didn't have, and the hospital he supposedly went to will be able to prove it, or the lack of a report from the hospital will prove it), can then claim s/he had reason to "fear for his/her life" and kill the other person.

A person who is not arrested cannot be tested in the same way that a person who is arrested can be tested--the clothing cannot be checked for residue, the person cannot be interrogated by the professionals at the station, etc. This is why people are usually immediately arrested in such a case (in places where they do not have such stupid laws) because it is imperative to get information immediately, before the suspect can wash, change, and get his/her story straight.

I have no problem with self-defense laws--and Martin's parents have only asked that the man be arrested, an investigation take place, and charges brought if that was appropriate. When the police refused to even do an investigation--they didn't question that the young black man was a criminal. Despite the fact that a young black man/boy of 18 was reported missing from the same neighborhood, merely feet away from where the dead body was collected, they still couldn't put together the fact that the dead body on the slab was the missing man/boy for three full days. That shows, distinctly, that the police had metaphorically tried and convicted Martin with no information whatsoever.

Young black men do not call the police--the police regard young black men as potential criminals. One principal reason that so many crimes go unpunished is that the police are so keen to find a black man who is the culprit that they miss the white men who frequently commit said crimes. The reason that most serial killers are white males is not that white males are more likely to be serial killers--it is that white males who are killers are so rarely apprehended . . . they have to do something patently ridiculous before anyone even suspects them. Look at Jerry Sandusky--same principle.

You may have a "right" to accost someone on the street and demand an answer to the question of why they are in your neighborhood--remember, also, that we all have the "right" to accost one another continuously and demand answers to where people are going and why they are there--but no one has to answer you. In fact, I'd think you were a nutcase and would walk away as quickly as possible--if you got anywhere near me, I guarantee that I'd hit you with anything I had available after telling you to stay the F- away. That would not give you the right to shoot me--well, not where I live. Fortunately, where I live, you have to have a little more to justify it than that.

Looking at this from Trayvon's perspective--I see a creepy, overweight guy with close-set eyes. He looks extremely creepy, and he is following me for no good reason. I know perfectly well that young black men go missing frequently--and are later found murdered and sodomized (probably in that order). I would suspect the man of being an ephibophile and would fear being sodomized and then murdered, or perhaps murdered and then sodomized. Yes, Trayvon has a lot more realistic of a reason to fear this man than this man had to fear Trayvon. Even if Trayvon had been a burglar--he was not burglaring, he had no weapon, he was very small, the guy could easily have simply followed him to his destination while staying in his truck. Any confrontation was spurred by Zimmerman.

Depending on the proximity of the dead body to Zimmerman's truck (my understanding is that they were fighting on someone's back porch, which would suggest that Trayvon jumped the fence to get away from the creepy guy following him in a stalkerish way--which means that Zimmerman didn't have a right to be there), and depending on what kind of eyewitness testimony there is, and whether or not someone had a camera turned on because there had been burglaries in the area, they might or might not be able to prove that Zimmerman is guilty. I'm quite certain that he is--but whether or not this can be proved is a different matter. The Stand Your Ground law, by the way, justifies Martin attacking Zimmerman in these circumstances, but not Zimmerman attacking Martin (unless it can be shown that Martin jumped him while he was getting back in his truck--which sounds pretty far-fetched).

I am glad that the parents stuck to getting people interested in the case. It is clear that the local police had no intention of investigating. The district attorney probably didn't even know about the case. Now that there is a new prosecutor, and now that the local police are being watched to make sure that they do something of a good job, I think that what can be done, will be done. I doubt that it will be enough to nail Zimmerman, though he dearly deserves it, given the delay. But, at least the parents do not have to live with the feeling that their son was tried and convicted to death for walking through a neighborhood his father had taken him to, just coming back from a convenience store, with only the option to stay alive being groveling on the ground like a slave when he was asked by the big, mean, white guy (and, yes, the Hispanic male is a white Hispanic) what on earth he was doing in "his" neighborhood.

The Stand Your Ground law needs to be overturned--it allows the local police to refuse to even investigate crimes when the crime is against someone that they deem "threatening." It is a bad law, badly worded, and badly intended. While self-defense laws might need shoring up, this law needs to go.

Oh, and stop fibbing--the man was never arrested, and that was the whole reason everyone was upset.

"All these people who are threatening George, what makes them any better than the person they think he is?'' Oliver said. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don't know the whole story.''

And the whole story is what...and, according to who ? Zimmerman...who is the one that shot an unarmed boy carring a bag of candy ? Just who was the chaser here..was this boy chasing Zimmerman..no ! According to 911 reports, Zimmerman was TOLD to stay our of this now...he did not...he chased this boy and shot him...for what ? Charging that a boy...weighing what...140 or so..jumped a man weighing around 240 or so...yea, right. Better still...was this boy caught leaving someones home...had he broke inot anyones home ? HAd he done anything, other than be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The stand you ground law should not be used in this case since Zimmerman was the one doing the chasing..he is the one who brought on a confrontation . For this man to be allowed to walk away from a murder is not justice..it is an insult to us all.

ageofreason99:

Who attacked who? Zimmerman was the agressor, and Trayvon was the victim. Trayvon was minding his own business, enjoying his snack.

So, you where there and you saw everything?

Zimmerman who stalked and killed Trayvon; a man who out weighed a teen by 100 pounds, has a broken nose?

Zimmerman who claims the young man attacked him had better have a medical report, x-rays and all. He got off with a broken nose + his life, right? Such luck!

Playing the victim with his attorney sounding the alarm + pounding the drum for him is not going to work. Zimmerman is a coward who will answer for his crime of murder.

A lot of posters are missing the point: What reason did Zimmerman have to follow and question the intentions of this kid other than the fact that he was a young black kid in a hoodie?

If Trayvon really was on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman fired, where are the blood spatter reports? Blood from the gunshot wounds should be all over Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman was truly in fear of his life (imminent loss of life being the only criteria for deadly force), it was completely appropriate to keep Traynor pinned down until help arrived.

lynnlargo; Have you ever been in a gated community? Well if you ever had been then you'd know why Trayvon was being asked questions, you'd understand. So your missing the point here.

flnobody -- Zimmerman was arrested, questioned, and released with no charges. I think when you are placed in handcuffs, and forced to go to the police station, that is an arrest. But, I won't bother to look it up. It would feel like one to me. At any rate, he wasn't just patted on the back by the attending officers with a 'Nice shot' comment.

Officer Ricardo Ayala was first on scene. He personally questioned 6 witnesses - male, 29 years old
female, 31 years old, male, 42 years old, female, 37 years old, female, 57 years old, male, 30 years old

Witnesses are not just volunteering to be interviewed by the media. They don't have to talk with the media anyway, but would you? Given the hysteria and the lynch mob mentality that is being promulgated?

I think when you are placed in handcuffs, and forced to go to the police station, that is an arrest. But, I won't bother to look it up.

It's not an arrest until they actually charge you with a crime. The police can legally detain someone for a certain period without any sort of charges whatsoever. (This period varies by state.) But of course if you had looked that up you'd actually know as much.

Charge Zimmerman with murder and get over it. I'm sick and tired of hearing it. You would think Martin is the only black kid that has ever been killed. Sadly it's not. Goodnight, they get killed every day by their own people, via, guns, knives, and drugs. Where is the outcry from the Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the rest of you blacks and bleeding heart white liberals about blacks killing blacks? Speak up about this or shut up.

lolfattynerdswhoknew - alright, I accept the challenge, and I looked it up. Not that it really matters...

arrest :

Seize (someone) by legal authority and take into custody.

A seizure or forcible restraint;

Freedman, your story about dumping rocks has nothing to do with Zimmerman stalking Martin. If I saw someone dumping something in an area known for garbage dumping, I would find out what's going on too. If I saw someone going door to door ringing doorbells, like they're checking to see who's home, I would check on that too. If someone is walking down the sidewalk, yo have no right to start questioning them. There was nothing suspicious about Martins behavior, except in the muddled thinking of Zimmerman.

Zimmerman seems to have some mental issues. He at least suffers from paranoia. Before they even started the neighborhood watch, Zimmerman was known for making repeated calls to the police. He once called the police to report a suspicious black youth, 7-9 years old. This guy has some issues. He's a wanna be cop or hero. He even made the comment on the call to the police that "They always get away with this". He had an agenda.

I carry a gun sometimes, depending on where I'm going. I also read a lot on legal issues of self defense. All the information I have read says you should avoid confrontations at all cost and I abide by it. I've even read good advice like if a someone or a couple of guys ask you for money and you think they are going to rob you, carry some money, like $20 in singles, and use that to throw on the ground so you can high tail it out of there while they scramble for the money. Losing $20 is a lot cheaper than being dragged through court to try and justify shooting someone.

Zimmerman did everything wrong and deserves to pay for it.

@Freedman,

Stand Your Ground is an expansion of the common Castle laws - the new law allows people to protect their selves and property anywhere without the duty to retreat. The legislation was passed primarily to assist victims of domestic abuse from prosecution who are unable to flee their abuser if they inflict great or deadly bodily harm in an attemption to mitigate the abuse. One section of the law states states the individual in fear of death or bodily harm is not compelled to flee but may confront the individual who is going to assault them, no matter where that confrontation occurs - hence the "Stand Your Ground" aspect of the law. This law overturned the English law concept of duty to retreat from dangers outside your home. The Castle law was limited to protecting you in your residence - which is why people joked about dragging the body of the robber inside your home so you could claim self defense.

State Attorneys in Florida fought the passage of this law because the law provided immunity which means that not only can you not be prosecuted, but you cannot be detained. Several cases have been thrown out by the courts due to defendants claiming protection under the statute. The most recent being the case of a man in Miami chasing down the man who attempted to steal the radio from his vehicle. The individual claiming self defense grabbed a large knife, ran out of his dwelling, chased the guy for at least a block, and then stabbed the guy to death - all of this was caught on video. The robber had an unopened pocket knife in his pocket which police say he never brandished. In strict reading of the statute, at no time was Mr. Garcia in danger of great or bodily harm from Mr. Roteta. Mr. Roteta had not entered or attempted to enter Mr. Garcia's home - the vehicle was parked on the street and Mr. Garcia's dwelling was an upstairs apartment. The law specifically talks about confronting an individual who attempting to harm you, not chasing that individual down the street and then stabbing him to death. The state attorney was floored that the judge threw out the charge under the Stand Your Ground statute. In addition, the Florida Supreme Court has decided that it is a judge, not a jury, who gets to decide whether to grant a suspect immunity based upon the law. The state attorney in Miami will appeal, which means the validity of this law will eventually be decided by the Florida Supreme Court. The law has been used to protect the surviving gang members of shootouts from prosecution.

These are the unintended consequences of a poorly thought out and constructed law. Claims of self defense in Florida since passage have tripled, with only one of the individuals who was on the tail end of the "deliver great or bodily harm" armed. Even Rep. Baxley, the sponsor of the law, said that Zimmerman should not be protected under the statute.

@ Whitefeather

I didn't post those links to those news sites just to show you what I read as my daily news source. I was posting them to show you that virtually every news website out there stated that he had been suspended from school for tardiness. By that, they mean that he was coming in late to school. None of the articles say what he was doing that made him come in late for school. Hopefully, as you suggest, he WAS staying up late to do his homework. But you know what? That doesn't matter, because my post (#1.36) wasn't about Trayvon being late to school. The fact that you're attacking me over the word "tardiness" shows that you don't give a rat's ass about the question I was raising towards those who believed that Trayvon Martin was some evil little gangbanger who was checking out houses he hoped to rob: Why - OH WHY - would an innocent kid like Martin attack a random stranger while on his way home from a convenience store with candy and a can of iced tea as George Zimmerman essentially claimed Trayvon did? What was Trayvon's motive if he is indeed the aggressor in this case, and not the victim like so many millions of us believe he is?

But here, let me edit the quote from post #1.36 since it has offended you so much.

Before:

Why would a bright young man with no criminal record, who was only suspended from school for tardiness but was nonetheless beloved by friends, family, AND school teachers attack a complete stranger after buying candy and tea from a convenience store?

And After:

Why would a bright young man with no criminal record, and who rarely got into any trouble at school but was nonetheless beloved by friends, family, AND school teachers attack a complete stranger after buying candy and tea from a convenience store?

Happy now?

ok, so maybe he wasn't a racist and this isn't a color thing. He went out of his way to shoot this kid for nothing. Sounds like he enjoyed being a wannabe cop.

What saddens and disgusts me as much as the shooting itself is the fact that people are ready to lynch this guy regardless of what the facts of the case may turn out to be. Of course we don’t know all the facts yet but we do know that even if this guys turns out to not be a racist at all, and even if the shooting were justified (IF), there would still be hundreds of thousands or crackpots in this country who want to kill this guy. Yet if the victim were White this would hardly even be a news story. Its sad that a large percentage of minorities in this country are so racial insecure that they see racism even where none exist. Of course there are still plenty of racist around but the fact of the matter is only about 5% of perceived acts of racism are actual acts of racism. So 95% of it is people seeing what they expect to see due to racial insecurities brought about by our racist history. Very sad indeed to see how irrational human beings have become.

Zimmerman has a broken nose, a gash on the back of his head and grass stains on his back. I don't see how someone chasing somebody sustains that kind of injury. Did he trip and break his nose? Was the pain from the broken nose enough to cause him to fall backwards and gash the back of his head as Trayvon was running away? Something doesn't make sense.

What does make sense is Trayvon coming up to Zimmerman and sucker punching him in the nose as he was talking on the phone to his girlfriend; causing Zimmerman to fall back and gash his head. And someone mentioned he was suspended from school for 10 days...I'm sure it wasn't because he was eating skittles and drinking ice tea in class. Obviously, he is not a model student and there are a lot on here that are in denial about the fact that this 'kid' could never harm anyone. Wake up and fold that hand with the race card. This is fear vs arrogance not white vs black.

Thanks Patriot.

I've never said Zimmerman did everything right, roodles. In fact, both men made poor choices. The fact is that if the police had shown up five minutes earlier, and seen Young Trayvon pounding away at Fat George, most likely it is Trayvon that would have been arrested. It is not legal to beat a guy because he asked you what you were doing.

BTW, if you decide to pummel a fat guy, make sure he's not carrying a 9mm pistol.

@Cynic, if Zimmerman was TRULY in fear of his life, he could have gotten back into his SUV and left the area - law enforcement had already been notified from his 911 call. And let law enforcement handle the situtation, which is what the 911 dispatcher told him to do.

And he needed to stand over the body of a 17 year old he just shot at close range in the chest to keep him pinned down until help arrived? You've been watching too many movies - people shot in the chest from close range usually aren't walking around threatening someone 100 pounds heavier than them.

If I am approached in a public area by an unidentified person who attempts to restrain,detain, or question me I would feel threatened by that person. By the logic of so many on this thread, that alone gives me the right to shoot and kill that person, be temporarily detained, then walk away in possession of the gun I used. The burden of proof is then left up to the dead guy if anything is going to be done to clear up any questions.

Really?

If Zimmerman had done the right thing which is go to his car and wait for police to handle the situation, this would have been a story about assault and both had a story to tell, instead it's a story about a boy being shot and killed. If in fact he was punched and assaulted as many claim on here he was in the right until he got angry and pulled a firearm out. Guns don't kill people? Really... Okay people who own guns kill people. Whatever helps you get through the day.

There is no proof in the form of actual evidence collected at the time of the incident that confirms the claim of Mr. Zimmerman being injured in any way. No clothes with blood, no photos of the injuries and the statement was added after the fact.

And by the way freedman, you too can be considered a threat by someone if you run up on someone (the tape recordings from the police show this to be true) and start asking questions.

Does that mean you would be ok being shot?

Donkey,

There would not have even been a story about assault if Zimmerman had gotten back in his car as he had been instructed.

@Ken F-2244375

Sorry to burst your bubble pal...... Please refer to post #3.25 Your argument actually feeds the anger of black folk. How would you even perceive to know what we go through.

And a Bras D'honneur for calling people irrational and insecure about this subject.

So 95% of it is people seeing what they expect to see due to racial insecurities brought about by our racist history

It's expected because it actually happens. Your poor attempt to placate has miserably failed.

@ Harry,

"In no way will Zimmerman get a fair trial with obama and holder in office. They have stated that when blacks attack whites, it cant be racism, it only applies to whites attacking blacks, then its racism. These two clowns better just watch what they are doing or they will get a lot more than what they ask for if the south rises again to the oppression we are facing due to liberal democrats."

Please, sir, tell me EXACTLY when President Obama and Attorney General Holder made the statements you allege them to have made? I am sure that if the Attorney General of the United States - the chief law enforcement officer of the U.S. - made such a statement, Congress would have called for his immediate firing. So I doubt what you allege is true. And your remark about them getting "a lot more than what they ask for if the south rises again" could be considered threatening the life of the President of the United States, which is a crime and results in a nice visit from the Secret Service and the FBI. Who would be very interested to know that you who make such comments also brags about having a conceal permit.

vwterry - There would not have been a story about a killing if young Trayvon had not reappeared after running away, to begin beating Zimmerman for a perceived affront.

There would not have been a story about a killing if Mr. Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle and not confronted Trayvon for a perceived suspicion.

See how easy that is to turn around?

Freed,

Somewhere above you stated that no one really knows what happened because they were not there and now you seem to be making a statement that has no grounding in fact. you may want to have it both ways but you really can't.

It's very easy when neither party does the right thing.

From the phone calls, it sounded like Zimmerman was stalking Martin. Got out of his vehicle and chased Martin then while yelling at him, tackled Martin.

Explain to me if you was walking and minding your own business. And some stranger started to follow you, never identifying yourself, then started to chase you. Then he tackles you just because you ran away from this creep. What would u do? Just stand there and let this fool do what every he want? I bet Martin of course fought back. Too bad now Zimmerman is using the bloody nose and cut to his head as self defense. Martin is the only one that did the right thing. He fought back against a agressor that attack him first.

I'm still all for CCW. I would guarantee you that Zimmerman pulled the same stunt on me, that wannabe vigilante would have a 45 1911 pointing straight at him and he would quickly change his toon. Or probably not because it will just reconfirm his so-called twisted suspicions.

A friend of Zimmerman's who appeared on TODAY with Sonner added that Zimmerman, 28, was distraught over the teen's death.

"Right after the shooting he couldn't stop crying," said Joe Oliver, who is African American and a former TV reporetr and anchor in Orlando.

Yup of couse he is crying. He realise that he made a grave mistake and that "self defense" argument will not stick. He realise that his life is over and his nightmare is now beginning. Kinda ironic, those young gang thieving thugs that he tried his best to keep out of his neighborhoods........ now its going to be his new neighbors (prison).

vwterry ~ "Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer, when he says he was attacked by Trayvon." - Bill Lee, Police Chief

Whether or not Zimmerman is a racist should not have been the most central question, He may well not be a racist, at least in the same way that the kid who was recently convicted of deliberately seeking out a black man to attack and ended up killing him by running him over with his pickup truck. The only reason the allegation of racism has been raised in the Martin case is because it's the only thing that justified federal investigation of the case as a possible hate crime, now that the Sanford police "investigation" was so shoddy it may never come to trial in the Florida courts. It wouldn't have been necessary for the feds to intervene if the local police had done their job and performed a competent investigation, just like the cops in another Florida town did in the case of the black man who killed a white man in an altercation over skateboarding. In that case, the black man was arrested and will stand trial -- as he should. People shouldn't be waving guns around in neighborhood squabbles about skateboards.

It's the Sanford police whose behavior more strongly indicates racism on their part. As has been pointed out by other people. Zimmerman should have been arrested and made to stand trial, just like the black man was in the other incident. When somebody is killed, the word of the killer shouldn't be the final word, as it was with Zimmerman's altercation with Martin. It looks like the police simply assumed that since the victim was a young black male in a hoodie, he must have been up to no good. You can bet that if the victim had been a white man, they would have acted very differently. A white resident of Sanford told one reporter that this was a case of "redneck justice." It sure is reminiscent of police behavior in the bad old days of the segregated South.

Why would a 17 year old 140 lb boy fight a 250 lb man if he didn't feel threatened? So called "stand your ground" would apply to Trayvon more than Zimmerman, since he was outweighed by 100 lbs and the kid was only armed with skittles and a hooded sweat shirt, facing a grown man with a gun. Since Zimmerman knew the cops were on their way and got out of his vehicle to confront this young man proves he was the aggressor. Maybe he was afraid the kid would liter his neighborhood with Skittle wrappers and soft drink cans. Sounds like self defense to me only the one who died was the one doing the defending.

xvet

free

you forgot this part:

Thus, a defendant's presence at a police station by consent does not become an arrest solely by virtue of an officer's subjective view that the defendant is not free to leave, absent an act indicating an intention to take the defendant into custody.

You said they arrested him. Please provide a reference to the, sanford police department, where they arrested him. Stop pulling crap out of your a@s. They could have put him in handcuffs for their protection. That does not mean he was arrested. Your interpretation of events doesn't mean sh@t to anyone but yourself. Put up a few links that can back up your big mouth. And not the only one that you have done, from an unnamed male, who refuses to identify himself. Because there were others that did identify them self's that said otherwise.

Why do people always have to inject race , Black and White , into these unfortunate events? Zimmerman is no more White than Obama. Obama is Black and Zimmerman is Hispanic. You can't have it both ways. Accept the fact that just because two different races are involved , Black and Hispanic , doesn't mean it was a racially motivated event. It might or might not be. Wait for the investigation to reveal the facts that we can sift and evaluate and use to reach a rational conclusion. And, remember , in a Criminal case the burden of proof is -- beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is any reasonable doubt the defendant must be exonerated.

Da Noid

I never wrote that I lived on a reservation, did I. And I wrote that I am only part American Indian. I, in fact am a highly educated mutt, who has worked for everything he has gotten. I simply ask the same of everyone else.

flnobody - I'm pretty close to acquiescing and admitting you're right in our semantics contest. The only thing holding me back at this point is a lack of source to your post. A couple of finesse points too-

"a defendant's presence at a police station by consent". Handcuffs seem to preclude consent. Nonetheless, is it your contention that had Zimmerman simply said 'No. I do not give my consent to go to the police station' that he would have been free to leave instead?

My main legal experience is crime shows. All I've ever watched claims the cops can arrest and hold a person for up to 72 hours without charges. This based simply on suspicion rather than probable cause. However, at some point a decision must be made whether to charge the person with a crime, or to release him.

"Our investigation is color blind and based on the facts and circumstances, not color. ~ Bill Lee, Police Chief

Zimmerman did not follow ANY Neighborhood Watch Guidelines.
There are Neighborhood Watch Rules.
*Do not walk alone. Watchmen are supposed to be in organized groups of two or more.
*Do not carry a gun even if you have a permit to do so. Watchmen are allowed to carry mace only after they attend a two hour class which explains how and when to use mace properly.
*Do not follow or confront anyone. Watchmen are only supposed to watch.
*If Watchman volunteers see something suspicious they are to dial 911 and follow the instructions of the operator.
*If the Watchmen are attacked, then they can use the mace, and they are supposed to run while the attacker has been impaired by the mace.

Zimmerman did not follow any not even one of the guidelines.

Sean-336944

I am English, Irish, German, Jew, French, Indian, dutch, and Scotch. I can bring them all into it if you like, of how one has had a time of being annihilated by another. I was, however, in error in using my American Indian heritage to try to stem the cries of racist comments, You are right, but I believe my argument for earning respect is still valid. By the way, you don't see American Indians marching in the street, crying "It's not fair" reparation me.

Instead, they build casinos and win at the game.

Let the media keep stirring the pot. Let all the posters continue to conjucture as to what REALLY happened, the fact of the matter is that there is no conclusive evidence, merely conjecture. Sharpton and Jackson race bait because that is how they make money. Notice that NO ONE is making any comments about the New Black Panthers and their bounty on Zimmerman, Dead or Alive posters and the death threats already happening on the Chief of Police as well as Zimmerman.

Why aren't all those righteously indignant posters coming out against the actions of the NBP? Could it be that they want Zimmerman dead? They don't have the facts but, hey, he's gotta be guilty, we've figured it all out and we know BEYOND a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of murder and we don't care if he is killed, serves him right...

I have looked for information on what the family did to locate their son, can't find anything. I would appreciate a post or link to explain what they did to find him and why his body lay unclaimed in the morgue. Why didn't the police open his cellphone? What happened to his cellphone, did his girlfriend call the police when the line went dead? What did the police do to attempt to identify him? Wouldn't that have gone a long way to help understand what happened that tragic night?

Caligula, It appears that Trayvon did stand his ground and it cost him his life.

OhhhPinnnYunnn ~

"He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department." - Bill Lee, Police Chief

"All these people who are threatening George, what makes them any better than the person they think he is?'' Oliver said. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don't know the whole story.''

Its called Racism , all these people calling him guilty SOLELY because he is White, are Racists.

So every person no matter what race you are from if you think this White man is guilty without knowing the real story, you are RACISTS., dont like that? Racists dont like being called out, Dont believe its sound reasoning? Racists dont think they are ever wrong.

Got out of his vehicle and chased Martin then while yelling at him, tackled Martin.

Please, Zimmerman at 5'8" 250, fat and slow, chasing and tackling Martin 6'3" 140...that's like a hog chasing and taking down a gazelle...gimme a break.

If I see a gun drawn...I'd be stupid to stand there and hold my ground...how many idiots here would stand their ground if they see someone coming at them with a gun drawn? Show of hands please...so I can see who the liars and deniers are.

I can hear Columbo now:

"There is one thing that bothers me about this case. If Trayvon was the aggressor, why was his body found in the walkway roughly 200 ft from his destination? That's when it hit me. Zimmerman was all the way on the other end of the complex.That's when I figured it out. Zimmerman followed this kid all the way and confronted him as he was moving towards his father's fiance's house. There was only one aggressor here and it was Zimmerman."

In the words of another great TV cop-

"Book em Danno."

Comment from an eye witness;

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

No matter what happened before, does it make sense that Trayvon Martin was completely innocent if he was 'on the top beating up the other guy (Zimmerman)?

Let's consider that there are two sides to this story and not 'rush to judgment'.

As far as being a Race crime it never entered my mind but what did enter my mind was PROFILING, and that is why any sort of profiling is not good, he saw a black male with a hood and immediately thought CRIMINAL and accosted the guy, why did he not do what he was supposed to do, just Observe and report, this is why that KID is dead, No other reason, and he gets too walk away. NO this is not right, I don’t think people think it was a Race crime, this is just a smokescreen to protect a LAW that a bunch of MORON Republicans created and needs to be abolished…. How many deaths that were un-warranted did this law cause in all those states that have it, and YES people are concerned because if it were the other was around and Zimmerman was dead the BLACK kid would have been charged, yet there was no arrest so a proper investigation could be done, that is why people bring up the RACE issue .... Because if it was a BLACK man behind that GUN there would be a totally different outcome.

mygirl1 - Surely your claim that Trayvon's body laid in a morgue unclaimed is not true. Anybody can say anything on the internet. Is that something in a blog? The boy was killed very close to dad's house? Cops all over the place. You think dad just doesn't care where Trayvon is? Doesn't wonder when he'll be back? Mom never calls dad or Trayvon to see how things are going with the visit? Girlfriend doesn't have a thing to say either?

I really don't believe it. That would be one messed up family.

Let's not muddy the waters. Zimmerman is a pig and what he wanted to do was, "kill himself a ****er." Well, he's done that, I hope it brought him great and enduring joy, because if there is any justice that's the only "joy" that will keep him going while he serves out a long prison term for murder. I hope he ends up punk trade goods among some 350 pound inmate lovers.

Let's hope that the prosecution elect NOT to make a hash of this at trial.

Dos Locos,

Of course not. A broken nose is not usually a life threatening injury unless you are fighting a Navy Seal that knows how to shatter cartilage into the brain. It is called proportionate response and a fist fight does not equate to killing someone with a gun unless it was life threatening in actuality, not by assumptions of the person being attacked.

That is why Zimmerman's self defense plea has a good chance of being swept aside as the garbage it is. If you get punched in the stomach and then kill someone in self defense you are going to go to jail for at least manslaughter.

I said it on a poll about this topic. People are too willing to kill others these days, they do not respect the life of other's, only themselves. They would rather kill convicted criminals then give them a chance to be rehabilitated, they would rather see the Arab nations destroy each other then try and stop the senseless violence that has been going on for centuries just because it is too hard to stop them from fighting. This is what gun desensitization does to people, they are no longer viewed as weapons of death but tools for your protection, or tools for easy commission of crimes, to be used at the slightest inkling that your life may be in danger. We really need to question this kill first mentality.

Harry0052,

As a fellow white male, I really feel for all of the oppression you've had to deal with (extreme sarcasm). I'd love to get links to your claims of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson calling for peoples' deaths, or even any of the oppression they cause to the white population in general (not going to hold my breath for the evidence). If you're going to be part of the conversation, please try to use facts instead of blind bigotry and hatred/fear.

Don't really know where the California comment came from either. It's amazing how much hatred some people show toward an amazingly beautiful and diverse state. Being one of the largest economies in the world, I'm sure they contribute a lot more to our country's well being than whatever southern state you're from. I imagine you've probably never been there, otherwise you'd probably stop spouting the empty teabagger nonsense.

The South rising again? For the love of god, what kind of threat is this? Are you going to try to enact slavery again? Do you want to ensure black people are considered less of a person than you? It's great to hear that you're always armed, ready to combat all of your oppressors. I'm sure you're just waiting for The Confederacy part 2.

I'm sure there are a lot of great people living in the South, it's just too bad that there are people like you who give the entire region a bad name. Me, I think I'll stick around Oregon, where I can walk unarmed at all hours of the day and feel safe knowing that people of your mentality generally are on the other side of the country.

freedman: hate to break it to you, but the news accounts I've read all stated that Trayvon's body lay unclaimed in the morgue for three days. Go look it up.

The Trayvon Martin incident is an attempt by the media, politicians, and anti-gun zealots to try and exploit this crisis to say that law abiding citizens should not be armed.

George Zimmerman did exactly what he should have done--shoot his attacker.

Trayvon got his justice. He decided to break George Zimmermans nose and knock him to the ground to keep beating him. He paid the ultimate price for his actions and recieved his due justice.

The media has Trayvon all played up to be this innocent kid. He is not innocent by any means if he is hitting another human being. The media is alos showing pictures of Trayvon appearing very innocent and Geoge Zimmerman in bright orange prision cloths.... Geoge is being tried in the court of public opinion which is nothing more than what is portrayed in old westerns as a lynch mob.

The panthers, Al Sharpton, Trayvon's parents should be ashamed of themselves. Do you think these afore mentioned people will appologize to George Zimmerman when the truth comes out or when George Zimmerman is acquitted of all wrong doing?

It will be interesting to see if they will riot like they did after the Rodney King incident.

Hmmm… Racial issues aside - there are some glaring items about this matter. Mainly, that Mr. Zimmerman made some BIG mistakes.

The first mistake was to carry a weapon for his "duty" as part of neighborhood watch. (He was not in downtown Baghdad.) The second mistake was to disobey the instructions of the 911 dispatcher. The third mistake was to follow or pursue Mr. Martin. The fourth mistake was to shoot Mr. Martin. All of this points toward premeditated murder.

The doctrine of self-defense falls apart if Party A pursues Party B. It is overt aggression if the "intended victim" pursues the "intended assailant," instead of running like hell in the opposite direction. Also, the SYG law in Florida is meaningless in this matter, again because of Mr. Zimmerman’s pursuit of the victim.

Various news accounts mentioned "Mr. Zimmerman trying to get hired as a police officer, for several years." One must ask, how far did he get in the selection process? Almost all police departments require a psychological profile of all applicants who are suitable for interview. If Mr. Zimmerman did not pass that profile encounter, he would not be acceptable as a police officer. That means he could still get a job as a security guard, unless such a firm has a similar psychological screening process.

It looks like Mr. Zimmerman, apparently a cop wannabe, made a series of very bad choices. In effect, Mr. Zimmerman is a moron.

Now, he should pay for his mistakes. No matter how Mr. Zimmerman’s defense attorney will try to paint the picture – if you dress a donkey in frilly clothes and a hat, it still is a donkey – more likely than not, Mr. Zimmerman’s cowardice will be apparent to any jury.

As Forrest Gump said in 1994, “Stupid is as stupid does.” That defines Mr. Zimmerman to a T.

I received this text message from my friend in Wisconsin that's majoring in law:

"Okay, which political party did the most to promote putting this 19th century, shoot-first, SYG, concealed weapons law onto the lawbooks? Far as I can see, it's given cop-wannabees and those obsessed with the Second Amendment, a license to kill."

Zimmerman said that he was attacked by Trayvon? I doubt it-- I don't know of any trout who would attack a whale.

Zim's shirt was damp and had grass stains? Ever heard of the guilty inventing evidence to protect his ass? It would be very easy to lie down on the wet grass.

Golly, a can of iced tea is a dangerous weapon isn't it. Especially against a gun!

Zimmerman is white-- unless he is purple or green. Or blue. No, he is yellow-- a yellow-bellied coward.

Sean-336944

My comment was about the outrage, and people marching all over the country, claiming hate crime, hate crime, without the slightest self responsibility to even ask the question whether a perception of the black man may have caused an innocent one to be persecuted. Or the people on here calling for Zimmerman's lynching without trial.

My comment was about "why" they are profiled the way they are, and a way to change perceptions. I, nor society, can legislate equality, it comes through proving the willingness to be equal.

The only problem you have with your theroy Susie-2759697 is that there is an eye witness saying that the young Mr. Martin was on top of George Zimmerman hitting him.... you can be in denial all you want....

Trayvon recieved his justice already--shot dead for attacking a man and breaking his nose!

Dumb is as dumb gets, and that is something that can't be fixed ......

The gist of what I actually read is that if you find yourself in Florida, carry a firearm and simply shoot anyone that decides to harass you or your life is actually in danger and the law will support your murderer.

So its illegal to kill someone of your own race, but extra illegal to kill someone of a different race. Is that the definition of 'hate crime'.

I think the guy was paranoid. The kid did nothing wrong to him, however, cooler heads will prevail in this case. I have nothing against the man being prosecuted for murdering a kid, after we know all the facts. But Knee-jerk reactions can only generate racial tension and more division. Especially offering a 'bounty' on his head. Really. Who do these guys think they are? Darth Vader?

To all of those stating Trayvon got his justice,

Please do all of us a favor and listen to the 911 recording. It is CLEAR that this was entirely instigated by Zimmerman, who wasn't supposed to be armed while on his "watch" and also ignored police orders for him to stop following Trayvon. In Zimmerman's position, he is supposed to watch and report crime, not directly involve himself. For anyone to claim that Trayvon started the altercation and Zimmerman acted in self defense is completely ludicrous. An unidentified individual was following a 17 year old boy, and the boy had every right to feel threatened. If Trayvon did hit Zimmerman, THIS was done in self defense. If you follow someone against police orders and overstep your boundaries, you have absolutely no right to shoot that person and claim self defense.

the human race...is the answer to the question...some people have forgot how to be human...they get caught up in their own B.S. ...and forget...

So? It is either them or you, and if someone is harassing or your life is actually in danger, what kind of idiot would not save themselves? You should have to endure it and then you may understand.

Justice for Trayvon - He got it.... you hit someone, break their nose, and knock them to the ground and then beat them...you get shot.....

OregonPat....Zimmerman was not paid or employed by anyone...he was a volunteer.... in Florida, as in Oregon, a person can carry a weapon concealed LEAGALLY. The police had no authority to tell Zimmerman anything... i.e., there were no "ORDERS." Zimmerman was doing exactly as he should have been doing....watching his neighborhood and reporting suspicious individuals.... Trayvon is not as innocent as the media has portrayed him to be.... He was a angry young man who decided to take his anger out on a man.... the problem is the man was armed and Trayvon got what happens when you confront an armed man--DEAD

mygirl1 - Ok, I've thought about it, and it seems like no big deal to me. Why the rush to 'claim' a body? It's doing just fine at the morgue. And if you do claim it, then what? You take it to a funeral home I suppose. What will they charge you to come and get the body, then move it elsewhere? Mom's in Miami, we don't know the financial situation of the family, but I am certain the grief was real. It's a terrible time to make morgue decisions, and the funeral homes are very understanding - but their bills are not.

It might be smart to leave Trayvon in the morgue until things get sorted out.

freedman

By what right does Mr Zimmerman have to interferer with his movement? You might say he is chief of the neighborhood watch, But the group is not registered. You say that he is on an errand, and not on patrol. SO it may be true But if he was then, he changed his mind of not doing that errand and went after Trayvon. He is not a part of citizens on patrol, it is a neighborhood watch. They're two different groups. He already knows that he is not suppose to be caring a gun while doing that,Right? Following or interfering with him are also no no's. `

Skittles and Ice tea. So why did he not use the tea(bottle or can?) to hit him (Zimmerman) with. So I might have use it. I do not believe that he was crying after the shooting, It would have been mentioned earlier if it were true. As it is now He will most likely have to leave this county for all this Mostly he did not have to Kill him. But it is to late for that now. Give him a polygraph test and see what that might show, But they are not that accurate. The police like to say they are for their own perposes

His own friend said he has a history of racism.

From his911 call, he said, he(Trayvon) looked suspicious, shortly after he said the these guys always get away. So then he started with suspicious,then to they always get away with it (predetermining that he had already done something wrong) along with he's got something in his hand not sure what it is.and the reality of it is that he was doing nothing wrong

Lets just put it this way: should you be following me around and approach me and demand to know why I am there (and you are not a law officer) then I to am going to ignore you, you persist in interfering in my movements, you can bet your sunglasses I'll kick you all over the place. ( Not to mention I am not a kid).

It is also easy enough to make it look like you are beating on me. I pull you to the ground on top of me an get hurt in the process(from my own doing) Once you are on top I have you just where I want you. . People see you on top of me and think your the one attacking me, I take out my pistol an kill you. Do I really have to kill you? no! I don't. I can stick my gun into your side/gut, and tell you to get the F off me or goodbye to you!

My point here is Zimmerman has no authority to detain an question&demand an answer from anyone not to mention chase someone down and shoot them dead. It seem to me that he did not follow any of the rules of the neighborhood watch program. I do stand by what I said on another vine that he is responsible for his actions and killed someone,and should be charge/arrested to what the extent of those charges I don't know what they will be. I just feel there was no need to kill him as he was the one to instigate the whole thing.

I respect your opinion to what you have say, I just think that you are in for a lot of flack for them as I may be. Karma is a bi-ch man, I'd hate to be Zimmerman

freedman1 Comment collapsed by the community

Until Zimmerman asked what his business was. Trayvon ran away, Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle to wait for police, when Trayvon circled back and punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocking him to the ground.

"freedman1"

You are not free at all.

You are captive of a sick imagination.

Attempting to "sell" the above statement is a pathetic.

Everyone with common sense knows that it is a big lie.

The new twist that is being given to this story is an attempt to give Zimmerman legal cover.

Such falsifications will only galvanize the true believers of justice to "stand their ground" to see that Zimmerman is legally charged with this killing. Zimmerman's behind should never had a gun, prowling the streets, looking for Black men to hunt down, mercilessly killing an African American, and then wildly fabricating "self-defense."

Trayvon was just a child.

When suddenly and illegally approached by Zimmeraman, Trayvon probably tried to flee, not fight. This "cowboy" predator, was much bigger than young, Mr. Martin. Feeling like "God," but acting like the murderer that he is, Zimmeran pumped a bullet into this child and killed him.

The police told Zimmerman not to get his behind out of the car.

Yet, he disobeyed the police, and did just that - he got out of his car and went "hunting" for the [N.]

This is a horribly tragic story.

Zimmerman should be arrested and jailed!

@Freedman

I've read your excellent posts with a careful eye. Your being dealt preconceived statements from opposing posters who've already decided the victim/ criminal based upon the channeled information coming forth from the mainstream. As usual.. the media is failing hugely with this incident. The question is.. why ? I've got some guesses ..

Besides..I've yet to see you defending Zimmerman's actions and choices. Why the other posters are attempting to undermine the factual information and relevance that you bring to the table.. .. smh.

I personally hold fast to a similar mode of thinking when confronted.. I smile..explain myself and keep the peace. It's always the best solution in most cases.

You can always count on Americans jumping to conclusions based on their previously established stance or opinion. Usually, as is the case with this tragic event, these conclusions are not based on fact. Most comments here are based on the posters' presumptions and imagination.

Having lived in Latin America for more than 25 years as a Caucasian American, I can verify that the comments made by #1.32 & 1.37 as closest to the truth as it pertains to Zimmerman's race and propensity to be a racist. Most Latinos are a mixture of the Spanish conquerors, the indigenous natives conquered and/or the Africans slaves that arrived later. Few Latino descendants of pure Spanish blood remain as a result of more than 500 years of conquest and co-mingling but a large portion of Latin Americans appear to be Caucasian.

That is why I personally heard many Caucasian Hispanic acquaintances claim to be of pure Spanish blood and strongly deny any African/Indian descent. Those Hispanics looked down on their own countrymen of Indian or African descent and probably had some of the same descent. They were "wannabe" white men in their own minds and just as pathetic as cowardly American racists.

And that is why I believe this pos Zimmerman is just as racist as the mouth breathing rednecks that are defending him on this thread. I sincerely hope that the forensics evidence speaks for Travon, discredits this wannabe's account of the incident and leads to his conviction because he made sure that Travon could not speak for himself.

I also hope that the state investigators look into the possibility that Zimmerman expressed interest in becoming a lawman. His enthusiasm to be on neighborhood watch. I read 2 versions. Was he on the watch or just another wannabe? If he wasn't and acted on his own to impress, this becomes slam dunk!

Let's pray that the recording of Travon's last conversation reveals the truth that puts this loser where he belongs.

john-737278 You do realize that black people were here (probably a good 20% of the population) when this country was founded right?

Black Americans don't need to assimilate. You cannot compare us to immigrants as if Africa is our homeland - it is not. The black people who were brought here "assimilated" as slaves, under completely different circumstances than anyone else who has come here since that time. We are American and some of us have been for hundreds of years. White Americans don't have to earn respect in their own country and I don't see why Black Americans should have to either. And anyway, our people have earned respect in this country. We weren't even above dogs at one point. 60 years ago, a black person couldn't even so much as look at a white person without getting killed because in white American's eyes we were less than human. Now a black person is the president. The black community is very deserving of respect given the hardships that we've faced because of other people's prejudices for hundreds of years. We never left and for you to even suggest that as an option after all this time is disrespectful and outrageous - seeing as how White Americans could technically go back to Britain. We were here from the beginning - 20%, and we are not foreigners because of the color of our skin. BTW - slaves built this country up financially. The United States Government should recognize that and be a little bit quicker to contribute financially and build up black communities. Personal reparations would be stupid but the government should take responsibility for the effect that centuries of abuse and prejudice have had on the black community and on people's perceptions of black people (ie you thinking of us as outsiders/2nd class citizens).

Another thing, you are not a member of the black community and obviously you don't do your research - black people have been yelling nonstop about how we need to do something about black-on-black crime and how we need to stop being hypocrites, getting up in arms about this. You see some black ppl acting a certain way and assume that they represent our entire race but that's not true. I've heard different opinions from white people and black people have different opinions too so please don't make generalizations. (that's prejudiced)

A friend of Zimmerman's who appeared on TODAY with Sonner added that Zimmerman, 28, was distraught over the teen's death.

He may be distraught, he may not be.

He now realizes that he stupidly killed an innocent child.

Zimmerman should be arrested and thrown in prison!

Zimmerman is in hiding because he thinks someone will run after him, hunt him down and kill him and claim it was self defense.

@LAKid: As someone who's gone through more than a little bit of actual weapons training, if a man fears another man enough to shoot him, it is totally unrealistic to expect him to render aid after the fact. The other guy could be packing various types of weapons, including knives and razors.

Psychologically the shooter is in no shape to deal with further contact--it can lend itself to poor decision-making and easily lead to further violence, in which the shooter can end up dead.

This is usually TAUGHT as SOP in police tactical and concealed weapons courses. Avoid further contact until aid arrives. If he did anything tactically wrong (if the reports are correct) it was establishing additional contact.

I am only commenting on the sensationalist headline, not the merits of the shoot.

@ walker

that's presumptuous stating just what Zimmerman is going through.

Secondly..the dead child..is actually a young man

Thirdly.. innocence on the 17 year old..is a stretch.

According to alternate news sources, George Zimmerman had a long history of making 911 calls to the Sanford Police Department and many of his calls were about "suspicious black males" he felt the need to "report" in his neighborhood. Last year he reported suspicious activity of a 7 to 9 year old, 4 foot tall child African American of course to 911 which is ridiculous. So it seems Zimmerman was indeed racially profiling the teenager based on his past history of 911 calls over the years. Here's one source;

Another news outlet reports that Zimmerman had been arrested before for battery on a law enforcement officer and obstruction of justice in 2005. He also had a past history of domestic violence with a former fiance in 2007 resulting in a restraining order and Zimmerman claiming the ex-fiance as the aggressor. (So he's used this excuse in the past for his own aggression.)

Zimmerman had an obsession with law enforcement and desperately wanted to be an officer although it seems his prior record would have prevented that. Now that the media is digging up his past from public records and his numerous prior 911 calls, which the Sanford Police Dept. should have done in their investigation, Zimmerman's true motivation for the killing will surface.

Thank-you Patriot.

There is a lot of blame. 1st the media. It is worth more money to stir up the emotions. Readership & viewings goes up, ad rates go up.

When people's emotions are stirred up, facts don't matter as much. Especially true if one is seen as defending a racist. It's interesting that we see young Trayvon's pictures when he's about 11 or 12. Some pictures are now floating about, ostensibly from his Facebook page (now dismantled) where he looks like a thug. I'm only going to touch briefly here, but it is true that being a juvenile the public has very little access to young Trayvon's personal history. The same is not true of George Zimmerman.

This is what one black man, a friend of George Zimmerman - Joe Oliver - says - "If what George says is true, none of this would have happened if Trayvon had just said 'I'm staying with my parents.'"

This is a true statement. It has always worked for me. Honest communication defuses most situations. Pre-emptive attack can lead to undesired results.

At this point in time, the police force has looked over the evidence and found no reason to charge Zimmerman with a crime. That evidence has now been handed over so that it might be re-examined. This is fine and as it should be. Every American should defend the 'Presumption of innocence' foundation of our legal system. It may not be the fastest system, but it does work. It's a helluva lot better than the Richard Jewell method of trial by media.

Perhaps Joe Oliver is an Uncle Tom, as one poster suggests of the Sanford City Manager. Either support the crucifixion of George Zimmerman or you are an Uncle Tom if black, a racist if not. And probably worse.

freedman1.

You seem to have the same obsessive control and desire that Zimmerman had when he killed this boy... Kind of like, "You know, I'm right and that so and so m.f. is wrong..." And you seem to think, that it doesn't matter what anyone think or feels... Especially here in this forum... Your thought seems to be is "I'm right and F**k the rest on them...

Question I have for you is.... Are you related to the killer, Zimmerman?

About 400 people rallied Saturday in downtown Chicago to protest Martin's killing. In a racially divided city beset by shootings, gang violence and run-ins with police, the teen's death brought to mind the 1955 slaying of Emmitt Till, a 14-year-old black boy from Chicago who was shot and bludgeoned to death while visiting Mississippi for supposedly whistling at a white woman. His body was found in the Tallahatchie River.

Total bullsh!t,

They have nothing nothing in common at all.

The media just keeps on stirring the pot then they will act as they had no involvement when it explodes

Terry: Because freedman is asking for intelligence and reason to super-cede vigilantism, you accuse him of being related to the 'killer Zimmerman.' You have exhibited the mindset that is typical of a lynch mob, in the court of public opinion, we find the person Zimmerman guilty and anyone asking for calm, for getting the facts in, for following the procedure of law, is now a 'killer.'

That is scary, mob mentality triumphs and that was one of the reasons that many people were hung without benefit of trial, jury, charges, anything other than a blood lust. You are exactly the reason that people with reason are asking for calm and reason. If you have your way will Zimmerman even be allowed a day in court?

Here is WHY his lawyer is pathetic and wrong as pertains to the "law". No crime was committed by Travon. NONE! You may search the dispatch or reports of any crimes in the area at he time. No rapes break ins murders molestations vagrancy loitering NOTHING. Nothing other than the crime committed by Mr. Zimmerman breaking the law and the rules of the association he "belonged" to. The crimes Mr. Zimmerman are as follows. Not in any particular order. Murder, maliciously taking away a citizens civil rights, stalking intimidation of a minor child abuse, hate crime and obstruction of justice. ;]

You see the FACT that Travon did nothing wrong not one crime at all and INCLUDING not even have done drugs or alcohol for those keeping count to have his civil rights violated for standing their. Standing there talking on his phone. Standing there on his phone with ice tea and skittles doing what EVERY citizen has the right to do. And Mr. Zimmerman takes it upon himself to do away with the BOYS civil rights which you and I are all entitled to in this country. The right to be free from tyranny applies as well. Mr. Zimmermans hate filled stereo typical tyranny in fact. Thus you have a crime perpetrated on a youth, a citizen of this country who was doing what he was supposed to be doing enjoying his RIGHTS and FREEDOM. But that was to much for Mr. Zimmerman to bare. He could not stand the thought of this young boy enjoying the rights and freedoms we Americans are entitled to. He had to put a stop to it by calling 911 ONE MORE TIME. ;]

Mr. Zimmerman lacks all credibility by breaking law after law and rule after rule. Travon does not have one arrest. Mr. Zimmerman has multiple. He carried a gun when the association's told him not to he followed the boy when dispatch told him NOT to he had NO proof whatsoever of a crime and we know now with certainty no crime was committed by Travon. NONE. Multiple witnesses contradict Mr. Zimmermans story and this is all before the police get involved with the cover up. It is clear who should have been killed if anyone. Mr. Zimmerman for the crimes HE committed against Travon from violating his freedoms to be free from tyranny to his civil rights to attacking him murdering the boy and doing in the first place what should NEVER have been done. Which is as follows. REPORTING A FALSE CRIME. That's right, that alone is an arrestable offense if egregious enough which this case clearly is.

Mr. Zimmerman files a FALSE police report and in his overzealous actions has murdered a boy. It was all MADE up paranoia from stereo types from an obviously disturbed individual. ARREST him on that at least Barney Fife.. ; ] It did lead to murder after all,... Now what do they call that again in legal ease?>... Hmmm. Indeed.

Cheers

Bull@!$%#! The fact is stand your ground doesn't apply to the child murderer at all. Stand your ground applies to Trayvon Martin. It was Trayvon Martin who feared for his safety and ran away. It was Trayvon Martin who was chased by what he perceived as a danger and when he couldn't escape that danger Trayvon Martin stood his ground. Under Florida law he had every right to defend himself against that guy chasing him.

The very notion that Trayvon Martin is not entitled to the protections of the stand your ground law is preposterous. If this was your child in your neighborhood and a stranger begin following your child around, your child ran to escape the danger and was chased down, do you say your child doesn't have the right to defend himself? If your child was killed by the stranger would you really be here talking about how that stranger had a self defense right to kill your kid?

This was a peaceable citizen going about lawful business. That peaceable citizen ran to avoid danger and when cornered, if he did attack, he attacked to defend himself from danger. The law clearly says a law-abiding citizen can use deadly force if "if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Chasing a peaceable citizen is as this child murderer did is itself the crime of stalking under Florida law.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/20/2703579/state-senator-calls-for-hearings.html#storylink=cpy

You can certainly voice a question to a person you find suspicious, but they are under no obligation to respond in any manner.

That is exactly right. Which means we are in agreement. There is no dispute.

Fair enough, Freedman. I thought you were implying some some extralegal right to demand, rather than ask questions of any person in your neighborhood whom you deem suspicious.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your meaning.

i will Not become part of a; Lynching party..

Thank You, Jeeesus

Why aren't all those righteously indignant posters coming out against the actions of the NBP? Could it be that they want Zimmerman dead? They don't have the facts but, hey, he's gotta be guilty, we've figured it all out and we know BEYOND a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of murder and we don't care if he is killed, serves him right...

It appears to be a case of fomenting violence, in this case a lynching before the trial, when this would be exactly the thing that the protesters are protesting against.

If Zimmerman is convicted of first-degree murder for shooting Trayvon, this response would be more undeniably and perhaps fully warranted. Until that time, why is nothing being done to stop the much, much more common crime of blacks shooting other blacks, hoody or not, in the US poorest neighborhoods by this mass of humanity that is calling for "Justice For Trayvon"?

I am absolutely demanding that Justice Be Served, through the proper conduit, not this speculation-based conclusion reaching which is more than likely to be the catalyst for race rioting, perhaps Nationwide. Trayvon appears to have been doing nothing wrong, as long as he never circled back around and actually started beating the @!$%# out of the fat guy that was chasing him but couldn't catch him. If that is the case, then all of this argument is moot outside of Zimmerman's sanity.

See. Speculation can go both ways. Just saying.

And that is what NOT the solution to the outcome of this case should come down to. An excuse to riot while not doing so for ALLthe victims of senseless gun violence, Black, White, or Brown, et al., not based/blamed on the color of the shooter.

Nothing makes this a good situation, regardless of the upcoming continued News Reports/Pot Stirring. When I saw the picture of this baby-faced fourteen year old on the placards and newscast, as well as heard the screams on the lady's 911 call(thought it was Trayvon pleading for his life), I immediately thought this Zimmerman had just ran up on Trayvon(didn't realize he was a 17 year old, 6'2" athlete), and blew his azz away, was overwhelmingly horrified, and in fact, when I had stopped home for my work dinner break, grabbed my own hoody and drove back to work blasting Dr Dre featuring Snoop Dog, old school, just DARING anyone to pull me over or do anything to assume my hoody made me quilty of anything.

In other words, I was right there doing exactly what my initial, uninformed reaction lead me to do. And I may have been more than a little premature in doing so. Maybe not.

Not a reason to start a riot.

Peace, and Justice For All.

There sure seems to be a lot of media hating. BUT without media nothing would be done about it. The police chief and cohorts would simply be drinking coffee on another regular morning NOT doing there job again as it suits them. Another coffee another case to apply at will with bias and not to all the law as they see fit. Or not. ; ]

You see weather you like the "media" as a whole or by specification or not matters not at all. What matters is the light shed. This horrid presumption that race riots are starting or will start comes from where? A double dare to be called out as racist? A triple dog dare to equate minorities and those who support this case in particular of any race as more likely to start riots? More likely than whom may I ask? Hmmm. Indeed. ; ]

A shame so many uneducated to the law minded folks act as though they know the first thing among others ABOUT the law. If they did BESIDES the obvious racism the stereo types and false reporting to 911 they would see the absolute stupidity in which this law enforcement department operates under. So much so the Chief has stepped down "temporarily".. They know there's a problem even though you don't and even though they themselves perpetrated it. But guess what my friends. They got caught with the proverbial hand in the cookie jar. So to be tried in the media now is WORSE then being tried in the criminal justice system is it? Do you dare us? I would urge you to visit a prison and ask the number of inmates if they would rather be in prison or tried in the court of public opinion. ; ]

Because isnt this in fact what happenned to Travon. Only the public opinion was Mr. Zimmerman's.... ; ]

Cheers

TimmB3029

First, I would like to thank you for your well thought out reply, rather than attacking. And yes, I do understand that black people were here a very long time, in fact, a lot of the founders had slaves.

My point was to point out perception. Every race has a perception. White people from the south are perceived differently that those from the north, as all races are perceived differently. And I am aware that many African Americans are working diligently to enlighten the masses to said perception, which is the noblest pursuit of all races.

Every race has it's issues, and I have long held the belief that the only time that race will not be an issue, is when we are so intermingled as a society that no one can tell the difference, if we make it that far. The problem is that most of the time, the loudest voice is the only one that is heard.

Racial injustice is not new, and hardly isolated to African Americans, but most of the time they scream the loudest. It doesn't make them wrong, but in some cases it does. When a black man is killed, it makes headline national news even though we may not know the whole story, but when a white girl is gang raped by a gang, not a peep. There is a political correctness in our society that does not hold individuals responsible for their actions, regardless of race, right or wrong. It may have nothing to do with a particular culture, but it does have to do with public perception.

So, until I can feel comfortable walking down every street in America, at any time of day, and not feel threatened, I believe my perceptions are true. It can be a street of any race, but the basic fact of the matter is that the safest streets in America are primarily white, even for minorities. And until that changes, perceptions will not. I can not change that for them, nor can legislation, it must come from within.

You mentioned that white people are born with respect, or something to the equivalent. I don't know what you have been told, or what you perceive, but that is totally untrue. Every man must earn respect. Every man.

I do apologize I do not usually care to but in. BUT! And that your wife's very big but I must say this. Many people are held to be responsible for there actions for the actions of others and a lot of time for actions they did not do at all. In this case it seems it is the POLICE who refuse to hold Mr. Zimmerman responsible. Besides, this kind of injustice in particular has been going on for far too long indeed. Murder is a far cry from rape due to its perpetrator and usually the motive. ; ] Is one, anyone trying to pass off the argument women's rights do NOT matter? That women's rights do not get the due they deserve in the media or otherwise? Hmmm. That would be quite disingenuous indeed. As we all know how important women are and how big of a stake in the media they truly have. ; ]

It would seem presumtions of who is more safe or whos neigborhood or what not are more then a bit bias it is a projection of personal bias or PUBLISH your facts and stats. . ;] Anyone who believes the media has stopped to focus on this case alone is lying about watching t.v or listening to the radio. There are stories of all kinds on every channel. So come on huh. What is it one, anyone really wants to say??

Cheers

I had a good friend several years older than me that owned a general store in a small town just north of us. He became the victim of several burglaries most likely from the same group of thieves. The thieves got away clean each time. He operated on a small profit margin. Four burglaries in a 12 mos. period wiped him out of a year's wages. He had no choice, but to defend his livelihood. He moved out of his comfortable home and away from his gracious wife to a lonely life in a storage room at the rear of the store. Two mos. later, the thieves stuck again. They were surprised to find timid and kind old Ralph bearing a 12 gauge shot gun to prevent further loss.

He ordered them to halt while he called the Sheriff. One of them pulled a hand-gun from his waistband and Ralph blew him away. Ralph and the three surviving thieves went to jail that night. Ralph was charged with involuntary manslaughter. He lost his home, his wife and his life savings to defense lawyers to avoid a prison sentence. Ralph died of a heart attack soon after while still living in that cold storage room of his now depleted store.

This happened in Ruskin, Florida. I thought then that there ought to be a law to excuse an honest, hard-working man, while defending his livelihood and then his very life against thieves, from prosecution.

I tell this true story while acknowledging that the "Stand Your Ground" law was a partisan effort to appease the NRA and party base. The third section allows a cold blooded gun nut to legally murder another with the claim that he reasonably believed that he was in danger of his life(how does a judge or jury establish what another may reasonably believe?). A 5th grader could have written this law with much more clarity to prevent it's abuse.

Such laws may have protected Ralph. They also allowed the cold blooded murder of many in the past. Many of the victims were tainted with a history of drug abuse or minor criminal records. They were written off as dregs of society that paid their dues. I opposed this law and knew it was only a matter of time until it was used to kill innocents. The day of reckoning has arrived as many mourn the murder of a promising young man and stand aghast at this miscarriage of justice.

Some may appear to be defending the misguided killer. The obvious truth of the story does not escape them anymore than it escapes the rest of us. They propose simple issues as a 5 day school suspension for frequent tardiness or a common hooded sweatshirt worn by millions as an excuse for this senseless murder. I'm here to tell you that they are not defending Zimmerman.

They are defending the partisan hacks, who are the true killers of this kid, by passing and promoting such reckless legislation. They are defending the former Governor of Florida for promoting and signing this legislation into law. The are defending the very same Bu@!$%# that sacrificed the lives of over 4,000 of America's best and the national treasury in a fruitless quest for oil riches all in the name of the war on terrorism.

Cynic-

"If Zimmerman was truly in fear of his life (imminent loss of life being the only criteria for deadly force), it was completely appropriate to keep Traynor pinned down until help arrived."

Interesting that you should say that. The two ladies who spoke to the police and have said into microphones and thus been recorded, said the police lied about what they said, & also said Trayvon was face down own the ground with Zimmerman straddling him and his hand on Trayvon's back.

Trayvon got his JUSTICE.... He deserved to be shot for breaking George's nose and attacking him!

Even Jeb Bush says the Stand your Ground law does NOT apply here!

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush is a supporter of the “Stand Your Ground” law, but yesterday admitted that he did not know why an arrest was not made in the case and further, that the broad-spanning law did not seem to cover the ass of George Zimmerman. Speaking at an education panel at a Texas university, Bush said:

“This law does not apply to this particular circumstance… Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/209978/florida-gov-jeb-bush-says-stand-your-ground-law-doesnt-apply-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/#299DLMB3G9wDl2AW.99

So much judgement and hate here when we know almost nothing. The bottom line is that there are 100's of situations in which the shooting was justified and there are 100's in which it was not. People are calling for proof that he didn't commit murder. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Nobody but Trayvon's parents and the public have even accused Zimmerman. None of the people in the best positions to know what happened have leveled any charges. This guy, and his family, have had their lives ruined over this incident. No doubt Zimmerman started the confrontation. That does not mean he's a raciest, cold blooded murderer.

I think we should let the investigation takes it time and do things right. The media is giving out so much misinformation right now and with holding information as well. In the end people who actually investigate crimes for a living will determine if this was a justifiable shooting.

switchblade-2693948

should you be following me around and approach me and demand to know why I am there (and you are not a law officer) then I to am going to ignore you, you persist in interfering in my movements, you can bet your sunglasses I'll kick you all over the place. ( Not to mention I am not a kid).

It is also easy enough to make it look like you are beating on me. I pull you to the ground on top of me an get hurt in the process(from my own doin, but blame you for it) Once you are on top I have you just where I want you. . People see you on top of me and think your the one attacking me, I take out my pistol an kill you. Do I really have to kill you? no! I don't. I can stick my gun into your side/gut, and tell you to get the F off me or goodbye to you! from post# 1.179 to your post of #1.202

To me what you said there is "that's one cold hearted son of a way to think".! IMO

"George Zimmerman did exactly what he should have done--shoot his attacker."

Switchblade:

Interesting comment. I wonder how you would feel if your innocent 17 year old child was killed by some cop wannabe on the hunt.

The reality is that Trayvon was killed roughly 200 feet from his father's fiance's house. He was trying to get there. In teh meantime, he is being stalked by Zimmerman, who according to his own admission already suspects this innocent child of doing something wrong. However, Trayvon was doing nothing more than taking some Skittles back to his cousin.

Did Trayvon hit Zimmerman? I don't doubt it. But, I believe Trayvon was exercising his rights under the Stand Your Ground legislation.

I wasn't there, but Zimmerman's 911 call, Trayvon's girlfriend, and teh placement of Trayvon's body all suggest that he was being followed by Zimmerman. Zimmerman had no police powers and was advised by the police dispatcher not to follow Martin. As Martin was making his way through the complex, it must have been clear to Zimmerman that he was doing nothing illegal as he didn't even step onto anyone's property. Martin also had the code to the complex because teh resident he was visiting gave it to him.

The shameful rhetoric on the right has suddenly turned to Zimmerman protecting himself. Explain this to me. If I am confronted and am threatened either physically or otherwise by an aggressor, then I get the better of teh aggressor, how is teh aggressor defending himself? The aggressor in this case had a 9mm weapon. Trayvon had Skittles, iced tea and a cell phone.

Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter at the least. His unnecessary actions resulted in the wrongful death of an innocent person.A minimal investigation was conducted locally and now suddenly there is a witness. Come on, this thing stinks to high heaven. Not to find out what precipitated the altercation between Trayvon and Zimmerman is a travesty, and frankly the conduct of the local police even make that claim suspicious.

When an innocent person is shot and killed, something is wrong. If this guy gets off scott free and that law is not changed it will be open season on black males from yet another side.

killroy-2675105
Aside from the "male machoism" in your reply, how do you know that you would be successful in "kicking me all around?" I too carry a concealed weapon or in the summer I carry it out in the open.... I don't believe if fist fights...they hurt too much. Pulling a trigger is less work and stops an attack.

I don't think George Zimmerman interfered with Trayvon Martin's movements. He probably just asked where he was going and where he lived. Trayvon should have been happy to see someone cared enough about his father's neighborhood to watch out for it.

I don't think Trayvon is as innocent as the media is playing him up to be. I think he was an angry young man and decided that night that he was not going to "play nice" and attacked George Zimmerman. He got shot dead for his troubles.

Al-2739446

As stated above, I don't think Trayvon was innocent. The media has this all wrong. In this case, if Trayvon was exercising "Stand Your Groun," he stood his ground and wound up dead. Which would be better for him....take a little guff and go home to watch tv or stand your ground and begin to breath dirt and push grass up from the bottom?

I think Trayvon was the villian in this case and I am sure that will come out when the investigation is over.

What is A White Hispanic

Being serious here I have a question ? If this is a Race/Hate Crime what race are we blaming ?

Really you are asking two questions. I'm going to answer both of them.

First - "What is a white hispanic"? A white hispanic is a caucasian person who lives in or is from a Spanish speaking country. Using a strict definition, if Zimmerman was born here in the USA, he isn't hispanic. But the word has come to encompass those who are descended from hispanics as well. And just as there are plenty of white Africans, there are plenty of white people that live in or are from Spanish speaking countries. There are plenty of hispanics that identify and consider themselves white.

Since Zimmerman clearly has some European ancestry, he can also be considered caucasian. So he is actually both. More and more, this is the case in America. Most people in America are from mixed backgrounds.

I'm just going to assume your second question really is serious, even though you've posted it multiple times on different articles.

Federal hate crimes are crimes that are committed against a person because of their race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or really, any other prejudice.

The ethnicity, race, or religion of the aggressor is not ultimately relevant. You might find a black person who killed another black person because of their race, or a woman who killed another woman because of her gender, etc. It's possible that this could happen, but not likely. Both of these cases would be hate crimes, assuming the prosecution could prove the motivation. Usually, the killer is of a different ethnic background than the victim.

The killer does not have to be white and the victim does not have to be a minority. We aren't "blaming" any race, because that's not what a hate crime is. A hate crime is when the killer blames his/her victim for being a certain race, ethnicity or orientation.

I think that the prosecution will have a tough time proving that this was a hate crime, motivated primarily by hatred of Trayvon's race. Other motivations may be more provable. Ultimately though, they may have to settle for manslaughter.

Switchblade:

Interesting-the villain is the person who is minding his own business and being followed by someone else. The villain is the one without the gun. The villain is the one who is not committing a crime. The villain is the child being pursued by an adult. The villain is the one who did not violate police instructions. The villain is the one who 200 ft from his destination. The villain is innocent and your victim has an arrest record which includes spousal abuse and the assault of a police officer.

You, and others are bound and determined to villify this young man. Unfortunately, he cant be here to tell his side of the story. But, there are enough question marks to warrant a thorough investigation as well as a charge of minimally involuntary manslaughter. I guarantee you that if Zimmerman had ended up dead, Trayvon would be in jail now. This whole thing is a travesty.

Miss T-I tend to agree with you. Unless they can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman made some racial slurs during the episode, a hate crime will be difficult to prove. I do think that they can prove a mindset though. One that decidedly views black males as more suspicious than others whether they are engaging in suspicious activities or not. That mindset may have have contributed to Zimmerman's relentless pursuit of Trayvon, and resulted in the confrontation that resulted in his death.

The important thing here is that Zimmerman be held accountable for this death. TO release him without a complete investigation is a miscarriage of justice.

Switchblade

Aside from the "male machoism" in your reply,

Well excuse me, I hadn't thought of it that way??! I guess you could take it that way couldn't you HA ha.

I was more in the line of it being, a FREE Alaskan AMERICAN ! You have not rights to put you hands on anyone what so ever. And as far as the: how do you know that you would be successful in "kicking me all around?" .It is in Jest--Man you crack me up--- Or did you think otherwise??? Were you thinking like I was daring you or something>>>???

See that is what I would call two perfectly good examples of misinterpretingthe meaning of what I meant in my statement. Am I anger towards you.? No I have no anger or hate about this or what you think or believe. AND finally the best one for you You'll love it I promise!!

I too carry a concealed weapon or in the summer I carry it out in the open

I feel sorry for you that you have to have that to feel safe---REALLY I do. Me I have no worries (As Mick would say) But mostly I hope that you never find yourself in Zimmermans shoes. Becausse you're the one that make the choice to killl or to wound.

And yes that would have been all that would have been needed, not to kill. So you, your self take care. .I am not a train expet in anything but I do know how to cripple someone If I have to,But I don't have to, see.

switchblade-2693948

Trayvon got his JUSTICE.... He deserved to be shot for breaking George's nose and attacking him!

So you think the death penalty is a fitting punishment for punching someone? I'd think T was ramming Z's head into the pavement that he could have finished the job if he wanted to. Sounds like he had Z at his mercy...

Personally, I'm waiting for more facts...if T did attack Z, I beleive it would fall under self defense. From what I heard on the 911 tapes Z was trailing T, which IMHO, would give T the right to invoke Stand Your Ground and defend himself. It really does sound like someone is trying to cover their arse...for me to think Trayvon "got his justice" is a far cry from any justice I know.

Zimmerman is clearly not a responsible gun owner. If you're going to cruise around with a gun and play cop; you better show caution and restraint in all situations. Clearly, Zimmerman completely failed at keeping up his end of the bargain as a gun-owner.

Now this pathetic excuse for a male is trying to weasel out of it because the confrontation he initiated resulted in his getting punched a few times by some teenager that he outweighs by 80lbs? All his fat ass had to do was roll over on the kid.

This untrained, undisciplined, man-child-with-a-gun's immaturity and irresponsibility led directly to Trayvon's death.

You have a 28 year old 250lb. armed adult playing cops and robbers on one side. You have a 140lb unarmed teenager on the other walking home from a 7-11. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is likely responsible for this one.

According to Freedman's laughable logic; I can just start fights with whomever I please - and if they start to get the better of me, I can shoot to kill in "self defense". Yeah, that's not ridiculous at all. Totally reasonable there Freedman. Totally.

Oh one more thing there Switchblade

I have seen people like you that carry a concealed weapon, They all have entered into their altercation with supremacy(acting the tough guy)because they know that they are packing, It gives them the feeling of power over whomever they confront. I've seen them take on more than they could handle and that is when they go for their gun,even though they should have stayed out of it. And they were arrested for brandishing a firearm in a public place with the intent to do harm . No one got killed I might add, because their were to many people around to tell the story that they were the one to instegate the confrontation. So you see it is to bad that there was no one with Trayvon. If there were I do not think that Mr. Zimmerman would have been so quick to kill or to even confront them. He felt safe knowing he had a gun for backup. It is easy to call the police and say that someone is coming after you,even while your in pursuit of them and make them out to be the bad guy to support your claims as to having to defend yourself from dangerous people. You feel one way about this and I on the other side and Yes when the D.A. has Zimmerman arrested and charges brought against him for manslauter the lawyers and the D.A. will have their chance to prove their cases. They should have arrested him, Taken his cloths from that night and they should have drug tested him as they did Trayvon They should have taken his gun they should have a lot of photos to show Zimmerman's face that night and they should have done a better job of all thing pertaining to this killing. Zimmerman should have left his gun in his car, but really he should not have left his car.

He should not have Presumed he was guilty of wrong doing, On his first contact with Trayvon he should have Said who he was and not talked like he was demanding his answer and in his following of Trayvon he should have went up to him from the very beginning and not have taken so long to do so. So as not to make Trayvon feel terrorized and frightened.. Hi.my name is George Zimmerman I am on the neighborhood watch program here in this neighborhood, just wondering what your up to and to see if your lost? are you lost? Like Mr freeman1 had stated he has done both,been the one asking the questions an been the one answering the questions from a local resident(Bet the resident did not watch him for a long time before making his first contact with him either) .Getting back to last night statement concerning kicking you all around. Just for the sake of argument you putting your hands on me or pushing me is an assalt on me, you have already broken the law haven't you. so being within my rights I do have the right to defend myself from you (the instigator Right?) you may think you have the upper hand but I am not 17 an140 lbs,I am a man, in his 50's,and about 200 lbs. So I do know when it is time to talk and when it is time to cripple you for life. You would not get up you would not have the oppertunity to go for your weapon. You would have to have your hand on your gun the whole time you were near me, as you would not have a chance to pull it out to use, after you push me of coarse.(that is where Mr.Zimmerman went wrong again)ANd if your hand is on your weapon, Then you are the one that is being the terroristic threat,aren't you...Yes you would be.

prime example of knowing when to talk an fight watch the movie Wiatt Earp(Kevin Costner) In the beginning his dad tells him that very thing, he learned it. So have I from my own experiences. I too know that fist fighting get you an them hurt I did not say fist fight either(as he smiles a sly smile to you sir get the picture here ) See in life we all die. It's how we die that matters. And I am a firm believer in when it is your time.... It is time,no getting around that one.(least wise for me)

IF you really care to know It was Zimmerman that was the terrorist Putting fear into a person that had done nothing wrong and minding his own business.

I do not have to wish or hope that someone takes out Mr.Zimmerman either way they find him guilty or not. You can count on your last dollar that someone will use that same defence on Mr Zimmerman. Heck it might even be used on you one day. So please do not be so quick to put your noise in someone else's business. That is a sure fire way to get hurt or even killed. So when you finally read this post do not take it as a personal attack on you,because it is not. I would not want you to misinterpret me again. So enjoy your day Life is short. Sometimes you just never know do you!??

You can also bet that both sides of the legal argument teams will be looking into all these comments to use the very things that we have said here on this vine for their defence and prosecution. I still think your comment was a COLD HEARTED thing to say NO ONE DESIRVESE THAT.

YO Roy W.

Let's consider that there are two sides to this story and not 'rush to judgment'.

Well Mr Zimmerman made sure that we will not hear the other side of the story now didn't he! Trayvon cannot speek now can he.

@killroy-2675105

Well Mr Zimmerman made sure that we will not hear the other side of the story now didn't he! Trayvon cannot speek now can he.

Trayvon is speaking volumes these days: "Don't go swinging on someone! If you do, you will end up breathing dirt, pushing flowers and on the wrong side of the grass. A great leasson for all those LITTLE innocent gangbanges out there!

@DevilsAdvoc8

So you think the death penalty is a fitting punishment for punching someone? I'd think T was ramming Z's head into the pavement that he could have finished the job if he wanted to. Sounds like he had Z at his mercy

Yes, I think Trayvon deserved to die in this situation. Trayvon had George at his mercy. There was no way for George to know how far Trayvon would have gone in his beating; i.e., when is this kid going to quit hitting me, when I die?

This situation is precisely why condealed carry laws were inacted in this county. You have a perpetrator who hit you hard enough to knock you off your feet and who is now striking your head against concrete or asphalt. You use your gun to stop the attack. Plain and simple.

This situaion really should serve young people well: Those who take aggression against anyone could pay the ultimate price--your life.

A great leassonfor all those LITTLE innocent gangbanges out there! good job

I think you should send this to Freeman1, He is the one with gang-banger buddies.

You did not apologise to me for over reacting to what my post to you. You did misinterprat my posting twice. Instead you comment to me on another post to someone else.I guess you feel like you do not need to give out a reply. A real and honest man or woman would have said that they took it the wrong way. But, you did not do that you saw an attack on your person . It is not a bad thing to misinterpret someone, I have done so a few times, and said so by telling them I was wrong or sorry my mistake. I would have thought to much of you or expected to much from you I guess. Honorable men/women do such things sir. I did only get on one statement that you made, about him desirving to be killed. How good of a shot are you, fair,good or expert? Me I would say very good with a rifle and fair to good with a pistol. and still I would not have killed him. It is to bad that you would have .I will say a prayer for your soul tonight that you may one day change your mind of such things . Now if your in your OWN home I would agree to that if you have no choice. On my front door to my home it clearly states "WE DO NOT CALL 911".

You see there SB you can be the biggest man in the world and still cry like a baby when I take your knee out Now(remember this remark is in Jest! not YOU literally, do you see the sly smile now)? No need to use my fists. Or I could go for the eyes,can shoot if you can't see. His age should have given him some experiences for other options don't you think. After all he is a security guard, right! he should now these things. Now you have a nice crime free day, so as not having to kill someone.

hard enough to knock you off your feet and who is now striking your head against concrete or asphalt.

Wait, He had grass stain on his back now he is getting his head slamed on the concret I thought you said he was beating him with his fists? what is it???

I have a deal for you,I will say to you If zimmerman is aquited you were right,If I am right and he goes to jail, you say it in return deal!

freedman1

You keep saying Pummeled...very odd since a pummeling usually means a visit to the hospital. However, in this case the videos seen thus far show no damage whatsoever and no concern from the police that medical attention was required. Get real. Stop making excuses for Zimmerman. I do not believe in a public kangaroo court but there is more than enough evidence to at least charge him and then let the court of his peers decide.

switchblade-2693948

What a complete racist #$$. So how is it that Zimmerman was beat up so bad and looked perfectly normal on video minutes later? Kinda blows your theory. Go back into that racist hole you came out of. Add some intelligence to the conversation instead of "Yes, I think Trayvon deserved to die in this situation" What the hell...are you a skin head. Who was the stalker and who was the prey? These forums are for the adults in the room not children who play with switchblades.

I think most people just believe that when the Grand Jury decides Zimmerman will be charged and then the courts will decide his fate. He sounds like he was a vigilante with a gun who felt he should do the job of the police. If he did not have a gun he would not have pursued. I suspect that in reality he is a coward who is trying to make himself more important than he is by packing a gun or perhaps in your case a switchblade. I guess it is ok to compensate for the lack of intelligence, but carrying a weapon expounds the issue since unintelligent people make very poor decisions as in this case.

freedman1 Restored

This is not a hate crime. It is a fear tragedy.

FEAR = ENEMY OF LIFE

#1.2 - Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:38 PM EDT

Fear is not an enemy. Fear is a messenger to let you know something is amiss. As a messenger it should be placed in a correct psychological spot just like a tool on a bench and utilized when, where, and how necessary.

My question, who was in fear, who had the gun, who was chasing who, who was told not to by a call tacker, and finally, who acted PREEMPTIVELY.

Preemptive anything is suffering without cause. You are suffering in the future, maybe a possibility, of what could happen. This would make you the judge, jury, and executioner. A bit godlike don't you think.

I'm just a little confused dosen't stand your ground mean stand your ground or does it mean be the agressor follow and shoot. And another thing I'm confused about, he was told to not follow let the police take care of it by the 911 operator, must have had his hearing aids turned down and didn't catch that part. He must not have been able to read either as the handbook said to call police and they will handle whatever the problem is and in capital letters no less. Now I may not be the brightest crayon in the box but somthing smells pretty bad here.

I think that Zimmerman will be arrested and look out if he's not convicted. The writing is already on the wall

The only person who had the right to use the "stand your ground" defense was Trayvon. Zimmerman was doing the pursuing. Trayvon had a perfect right to turn around and do whatever was necessary to protect himself.

Some ask, "Why was he running?" That's easy... because he was being chased by someone who had been following him. Children are often taught that if someone jumps out of his car and tries to grab you or kidnap you, to scream for help and run away as fast as you can.

A person driving around in a car has a distinctive advantage over a kid walking along the street. What would do in that situation? ... walk up to the car and say, "Gosh mister, can I help you with something? How about I get in your car and join you in a scenic ride around the neighborhood.

How anyone can defend Zimmerman is beyond me.

Sorry to bring a little reality to the wacko train, but here's the police report, which has been publicly available for weeks (as has the 911 call). Police interrogated 6 witnesses on the scene that night, all of whom corroborate Zimmerman's account that Martin jumped him from behind, broke his nose and split the back of his head, before sweet little 6'2 160 lb. Trayvon was stopped by the wrong end of a bullet. And btw, the 911 operator, not police, simply told Zimmerman "you don't need to" pursue the suspect, that police were on their way:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

littlechanges--read the report. Doesn't say what you say it does. Have a great day. The only new information I found was that Zimmerman was taken to the station and debriefed--he was in cuffs briefly. That was new information to me--though it doesn't sound like he was much interrogated, just debriefed. I'd have to see the transcript of the discussion to know how seriously they took the interrogation.

There is zero information on that report about the witnesses other than that two officers (not the ones who wrote this report) talked to them. There is no information whatsoever about what they had to say.

Try again--I actually read it, and it doesn't say what you say it did. The only relevant information is that Zimmerman's back was wet and that he was bleeding from the back of his head and from his nose. Period.

Gun ownership? well Second Amendment right,Yeah Its in the Constitution.

Why Not in my humble opinion ,Since the tea-party loves so much as "gun ownership" let them keep it as souvenirs of the old wild,wild west.

Why not We just "Control the production of Bullets and make it legal to anyone that holds one without the approval permit issues only those understand the consequences. Preventing what happened in Florida lately in hands of such scumbag. America should be safer place then.

And best of all the Constitution never stated of the "Right" of states controlling Bullets! Just the right of owing Firearms.

@Panhead,

The statute states the person feeling threatened does not have to flee - it doesn't specifically address the threatened pursuing the person threatening them, i.e., becoming the aggressor. But I doubt that was the intent of the writer of the legislation.

That every single state attorney in Florida fought against the passage of the bill tells you what BAD legislation they considered it to be.

Littlechanges,

I read the report too and nothing in there stated that Martin jumped on Zimmerman. It's nice to know that you know how to post the link to a police report but yet never read it. You expect people to go on your word and not read the report?

littlechanges

Sorry to bring a little reality to the wacko train, but here's the police report, which has been publicly available for weeks (as has the 911 call). Police interrogated 6 witnesses on the scene that night, all of whom corroborate Zimmerman's account that Martin jumped him from behind, broke his nose and split the back of his head, before sweet little 6'2 160 lb.

I read the report, and it looks like your riding in the caboose of the wacko train. Nothing in the report says the witnesses corroborated Zimmerman's story. One witness not mentioned in the report is Martin's girlfriend who said he told her he was worried about some guy following him in a car. I agree with other people here who said that if anyone had a right to a "stand your ground" defense, it was Martin, not Zimmerman.

With the shoot-first, SYG law, does claiming that you did it in, "self-defense" give people like Zimmerman a "Get out of Jail Free," Card?

So Martin broke Zimmerman's nose. If I thought I was being stalked by a huge guy with a gun, and if I was cornered, by him, I would trying to beat the tar out of him before he had a chance to shoot me. If I know I'm going down by the hands of a determined gunman, I'll go down fighting to the bitter end.

Thus, I agree with you, Houston. "If anyone had a right to a "stand your ground" defense, it was Martin, not Zimmerman."

Stand Your Ground law really means SHOOT TO KILL law.

Gotta love how police can show up, see a dead unarmed teen on the ground, ask what happened, the guy says self defense and the police say "Have a good day sir!"

Shows how weak arguments here are against Zimmerman, when you attack him for his weight and appearance, but Trayvon is always young Trayvon, innocent, and falsely 140 pounds little boy....wake up, you are being mislead with old little boy photos, what does that tell you??? Obama has done nothing in office except divide people against each other.

WHERES the LAW? IS it legal to put a bounty on anothers head. The article stated the NEW BLACK PANTHER party put a $10,000.00 bounty on Zimmermans head. WHEN is that legal. Heres the bottom line, Id be evoking the Stand Your Ground law everywhere I went as many times as I needed to. Death threats, bounty and the police chief and states attorney wipe their hands off and wont get involved. B/S.....The law is clear and the police chief and state attorney just cant wipe their hands off and say Im not doing anything. Wheres the charges against the New Black Panther party, wheres the charges against those who say they will kill Zimmerman. obama then incites more division than he ever did for unity. obama could have went down the path of Martin Luther King but chose to bring back the 50s-60s racial tensions for political socialistic/communistic gain. obama uses his islamic muslim qurans teachings to attack the infidel with any means possible. A person has to take threats seriously in this day and age, Washington made that so. If it isnt terrorists, criminals who have no reason to abide by the law, as in this case the chief and attorney wont even acknowledged their responsibility, and a president who immediately takes sides to create a vacuum of hatred.

Mike in Afghanistan

Freedman1: What are you? Zimmerman's attorney? There has been ZERO evidence to corroborate your claims. What I have heard is evidence that a scared kid told his girlfriend that some guy was following him. What I have heard is evidence that that guy was told by the 911 operator to not pursue the kid, but he did anyway. What I have heard is evidence that this same guy called 911 over and over again, more often than not complaining about suspicious-looking black people. So, having no evidence to support your claims, we're just supposed to take you at your word? Your theories (and that's all they are) hold no water. What unarmed kid in his right mind would turn around and confront a man carrying a gun? What seems more likely is that the guy - who we already know was pursuing the kid - caught up to the kid and the kid ended up fighting for his life - as any sane person would do. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading misinformation on the 'net. But, then again, people like you have no shame, do you?

And, in response to the original poster's question, having hung out with both Latino and Black people, I happen to know that there can be great deal of racial tension between the 2 races - just as there can be racial tension between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans. Just because they're both minorities (or even speak the same language) doesn't automatically mean that they love each other.

The black panthers are America's rat problem. How do you get rid of a rat problem? Simple, kill all the rats.

The Stand Your Ground law creates an immunity every step of the way with the police, with the prosecutor, with the judge pre-trial, with the jury .... The people who wrote the law are now saying this is not what they meant, but once it becomes law you don't get to say how you meant for it to be interpreted, the law enforcement interprets it. It has to be spelled out specifically in the law. Several people who objected to Stand Your Ground predicted problems. Now we can see why and it has been adopted in something like 18 more states.

free

cops can arrest and hold a person for up to 72 hours without charges.

You keep putting the word "arrest" in your statements. They don't need to arrest someone to hold them. I'm not sure about he 72-hour thing. I would assume it might vary depending on the local or state laws.

lack of source to your post.

You have said a lot. 99% being your opinion. With no links or reference for your statements. Perhaps you should try a few.

Shows how weak arguments here are against Zimmerman,

Right, and posting police reports then lying about what's in them is in no way an indicator about the weak arguments in defense of Zimmerman.



Obama has done nothing in office except divide people against each other.

Ummm 'Confederate Kid', you do realize not everything is Obama's fault, right?

MyGirl1,

If Freedman1 said something actually intelligent then perhaps that would apply. However, he has on several occasions stated that Zimmerman was pummeled. That is simply not the case from everything I have seen and read thus far. I do however agree as stated earlier that a kangaroo court is not appropriate either.

It is quite interesting that your choice of words was Vigilante when in reality it looks like that is EXCACTLY what Zimmerman was. A Neighborhhod vigilante that should never have continued his pursuit. That is what is so stupid about the gun laws they gave Zimmerman the elusion of legal power enforcement.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

Really...so you are trying in your twisted way to now re-direct blame towards President Obama. What idiotic train are you on now? These laws do nothing but make people feel more powerful and the general public fearful of any discussion with a stranger in a public place that gets out of hand. Would you start threatening me or start a fight in a bar because I have different political beliefs or I happened to galance in the direction of your girlfriend but you miss-read the situation in your less than sober state and escalate a fight. Someone then pulls out their concealed weapon and a life is ended.

I agree any threats created by the Black Panthers or anyone else should be investigated and charges filed as appropriate. What gets me about your idiotic and unpatriotic post is how you go off on the President with the most ridiculas accusations that have no merit in our world. "obama uses his islamic muslim qurans teachings to attack the infidel with any means possible." Perhaps the luny bin has been set loose today."

It's people like you that seriously concern me. Those that think they understand Latin and it makes them seem intelligent but pick a phrase that is anarchist and wishes for war. Very sad indeed!

drug, alcohol, and checking his phone on what grounds? they would need to charge him first.

unless you want the police to do the same next time you forget to use your blinker when driving i suggest you watch what you say...

drug, alcohol, and checking his phone on what grounds?

try having just killed someone.

cantMAKEmePAY:

What country are you a citizen of?

Just curious to know how much of a news story this is there.

HISPANIC ISNT A RACE YOU MORON!!!!!! Its an ETHNIC GROUP!!!!!! Learn the difference!!!! Jeez.... So your analogy is stupid. Zimmerman is WHITE, and his ethnicity is Hispanic!!! ANY race can be hispanic....

Dude what? Why does it matter if he was white or Hispanic? Same to hummbird it doesnt matter. Any colour or race can be racist. And a white racist is no worse than a Hispanic racist. All racists are equal in their evil nature

Ah but hispanic gets you minority status no matter what race you are. White does not get you minority status in this country. As in 11 groups challenged the redistricting in my state 1 was Black and 10 were Hispanic The Hispanics are now happy but the one Black group is not. That is why your census form has White and non-Hispanic White on it. I being non-Hispanic White do not get any minority status.

lmao....that guy looks no whiter than OJ simpson....your a moron.

Just because they get minority status doesnt make a difference... Hispcanic is still a minority group in the U.S and Race has nothing to do with it. White NON-Hispanics are still the majority... so I dont get your point again... HIspanic isnt a race... research it... sheesh. If Hispanic is a race... then so is American.....

Hispanic is a made up term by the U.S to lump every spanish (sometimes portugese) speaking people into one group depsite their different racial backgrounds....

HISPANIC ISNT EVEN A RACE ON THE U.S. CENSUS (because they corrected their mistake over a decade ago)... did you people even fill that out?

cantMAKEmePAY

If your half white president is considered to be black, then Zimmerman is a Hispanic. You can't have it both ways.

I will not say that you are racist, but you are extremely predjudiced from those previous statements I've read.

To your explanation of our "half breed" president, yes, his mother is white and his father is black(African descent). To answer why the president is associated as black is because he is brown. There is this thing you may not be aware of, it's a general phrase called, "the one drop rule". If you have a drop of african blood, it apparently makes you black. If your skin is remotely brown, it is assumed that you are black.

Imagine what he had to deal with as a child. I was never born around Obamas time, but I sure did face predjudice and racism as a child for being black, though I am slightly lighter skinned. My mom is light skinned african american, while my father is dark. my brother and sister are both light skinned and some people can't tell if they are black or white, but they faced different treatment than me. Now why would you ask that the treatment is different, ask the society of america, because apparently we all carry some form of predjudice. White and black is nothing but a word to me, all I see is decent people and idiots.

His mother is mexican.Father is white. Regardless, all races have their racists. The most notable would be the black community. We witness this virtually every other decade for the last 40 - 50 yrs. We have seen black racists systematically pull white people out of the autos in broad daylight for a beating simply based on their skin pigmentation :ie L.A. riots. Most crime against whites in this country is black on white(90%). Crimes committed against blacks by whites are only 10%. Before all liberals get upset and start the name calling, I suggest you go to the U.S.Dept. of Justice web site and verify the numbers, unless you also believe that to is operated by a bunch of "white racists". In that case, then no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise, just like the jury in the O.J. trial. By the way, I don't ever recall white people by the thousands cheering in the streets when a "White defendant" got away with the killing of two black people. Please don't give us that @!$%# about slavery "excuse". No one group has the so called excuses of the past to terrorize another. Historically whites were slaves long before blacks in this world.

Elk, I am American. I just don't claim the Race Baiter In Cheif as my president.

*Chief

Aren't you one of the people who say, "This is America, speak English!"? Wouldn't that include SPELLING English correctly too?

lol Blacks are what... 12% of the population? Let me let you know something about Statistics... IF 90% of crime against whites is from black people, and 10% of crime AGAINST blacks is from white people.... that DOESNT mean anything when it comes to TOTAL numbers.... especially when most crime against blakc people is by other black people.. You have to look at those numbers deeper.

The best analogy i can think of is... The prop 8 in California. If you heard that 80% of blacks voted for Prop 8, and you hear 50% of whites voted for it, and 40% of people who identify with hispanic voted for it. It woudl look like MORE black people voted for it. But if you have 1000 white, 100 hispanics, amd 10 blacks.... 80% of blacks would never equal 50% of the whites....

Zimmerman does not look white, he looks Peruvian like his mother with brown skin so please stop calling him caucasian. He may or may not have been prejudiced against young African American males but it certainly looks like the Sanford police were prejudiced. The outrage is over Zimmerman not being drug tested, background checked, charged or arrested by the local police department. Their disregard for this teenager's life is also what's at hand and I suspect that now they will be investigated as well.

Because All Italians, Irish, Spaniards, Jews, Germans, and Russians all look the same amirite??

2010 census. whites= 223,000,000. blacks=41,000,000. More whites are victims of crime by blacks than blacks are by whites. Nice try on the spin though, unfortunately for you numbers don't lie, but you do. Why not ask yourself why only 12% of a population commit so much crime?

Mtg303:

Zimmerman does not look white, he looks Peruvian like his mother with brown skin so please stop calling him caucasian

I love the racial tensions flying about wether he is white or hispanic based on what he looks like and who his parents are. Skin tone and genetic makeup don't matter for the actions he's taken, he killed an innocent child.

.........maybe because we are pissed off at crap like this.......

Why not ask yourself why only 12% of a population commit so much crime?

Many of you who politicize this, insult the President for who he is and what he is not, are guilty of hate period. Stop the sterotyping. Trayvon Martin's parents have risen above it all. So why can't the rest of you bloggers? This is not a forum for reactionary criticism. There have been more thoughtful, sincere, empathic messages written here than hateful. Some of you today apply the same hate filled language to the President. That's just a lame excuse for your lack of reading and researching about the man, his policies and his intellect. You act as media propaganda sponges believing what the political pundits distribute as fact without performing your own research. You just regurgitate whatever politicos appeal to your emotions or whatever "sounds right" without doing your own studying on the issues. That's why this rediculous law was bound to end in the tragic death of an unarmed child. The gun lobby. Think its good for everybody? This is just the first case. Sit back and watch all of the other vigilante states get into trouble with this.

As a law enforcement officer in the North east I have a major problem with ARMED volunter citizens on block watch groups who attempt to take matters into their own hands. It hasd always been my experience that citizens on a block watch are told to simpy, "Observe, Report and stay back," in order to allow officers to handle the incident.

At this point in my life, I'm fed up.

Fed up with having to "check myself" before I walk out the door. Fed up with the looks in the elevator. Fed up with the locking of car doors as I walk by. Fed up with the silly sales clerks who look right through me when I need help in a store. Fed up with the way my kids teachers try to pigeonhole my kids in school. Fed up with the DWB stops. Fed up with the mothers grabbing their kids when I walk by. Fed up with having even to say "Yes sir" and "Yes ma'am" when the cops pull me over. Fed up with insurance companies raising my rates because of my neighborhood. Fed up with bankers ignoring my credit score when I ask for a loan. Fed up with being turned town to rent a place where i'm not wanted but can more than afford. Fed up with not being able to get an unoccupied cab. Fed up with Hollywood and the media making all of us look like gangstas and thugs. Fed up with ladies clutching their purse just that much closer as I go by. Fed up when my phone interview goes stunningly well and the walk-in interview is a disaster and I see the look of "is this the guy I talked to on the phone? Really?" look on the interviewers face. Fed up with bad schools in my neighborhood. Fed up with services in one part of my city being veeeeeery different than the services in mine.

Fed up with people thinking I'm something I'm not...............

Frack it!! I might as well just do what I want. This is the way you see me?? Frack you!! I might as well take advantage of it and rob yo azz. IDGAF anymore... If this is the way you treat me why should I care anymore.....

I'm Just Sayin'.....

There is going to be a trial... There HAS to be a trial...

Until then it would help if we all stood back and let justice reign.

It does no good for anyone -- political leaders included -- to come out with inflammatory statements.

We have enough professional rabble-rousers who are willing to do that.

ha ha ha, the police chief cant arrest somebody without more reason than this?!? maybe if you find a dead robber in somebodys living room and you have 3 unrelated witnesses all testifying that the robber had a baseball bat and was attacking-even then the killer would be arrested- notice the word KILLER-this wasnt a loud party, he effin MURDERED somebody.. but 2 guys out on a public walkway, and witnesses saying he was attacking the kid?? im pretty sure someone would be arrested without bail pending a murder investigation. there are videos on youtube of cops beating 15 year old girls in handcuffs and the cops never get convicted by a jury. those cops could have beaten zimmerman to death and drug his body by the bumper and no one would do anything to the pigs. this case is a joke. zimmmerman should have been arrested at the very least. what is it with guns in this country? guy with a gun = gutless b*tch. i dont want to worry about some coward shooting me because hes worked up about living in his moms basement. keep your shotguns and hunting rifles in case we have another revolution (against nazi party leader santorum and gestapo head koch), you dont need pistols or automatic weapons to defend yourself. although we might miss the downward evolutionary pressure culling children of low IQ gun owners through accidents.

Unbelievable-895817

At this point in my life, I'm fed up.

Good post...and I hear ya. The racism (overt and systemic) drives me nuts and I'm not even Black. I have to keep reminding myself the the racism is fear and ignorance played out by people too stupid to recognize they are victims of their own hate. Fortunately, their kids are becoming less racist all the time, mixed marriages are on the increase and the old school bigoted parents are dying off. Add that to the population shift of Browns and Blacks to the majority and in a generation or two most of this BS will be gone. Its a long haul and I feel ya... eye on the prize and all that.

Here's some medicine : Tightrope

unbelievable i predict that you will either be in jail or in the grave soon if you are so FED UP tell your black brothers to stop the murder rape car jacking and selling crack cocaine to their neighbors

lckmiblls--even if I grant that more whites are victims of crimes by blacks than blacks by whites (already a problematic statement, because it implies that most crimes against white people are committed by blacks, which is not what it means), this isn't really a telling statement.

The police will arrest a person of color who is accused of a crime against a white person; the police rarely arrest white people. The word "crime" only appends to an incident which the police investigate and deem a "crime." If they do not deem it a crime when a white child runs down a black person with his vehicle (and the fact that a boy convicted of that recently lets you know that they usually don't get arrested, as he appears to be really surprised that he did), because it was the black person's fault for being on the street, but they do deem it a crime when a black person runs down a white person--well, there's the issue.

In fact, a black person is more likely to be arrested for calling the police--they often fail to report crimes, so that skews figures as well.

Crime statistics and convictions are already skewed against black people--the reason why there are mostly white serial killers is that it is far, far easier for a white person to get away with multiple crimes than a black person. It is also that a white person who commits a crime against a black person--like stealing their money by misrepresenting a loan--is less likely to be charged with a "violent" crime.

When the system is racist--the statistics tend to be racist. Have a great day.

@culheath

And that's the short list...........

It's funny....... I started to realize how I was being perceived at a very young age. Kindergarten as I recall. White kid called me "sambo" and threw a chair at me. I hit him back and I got in trouble. He was asked to sit down and snickered at me.

On one hand this country tells us "we are all equal" and "you have the same rights as everyone else". REALLY????? THIS is what you are telling me?? Well it's NOT what I see, hear and have had experience with. What you are selling me is a false bill of goods. Can anyone deny that we have been fed a carrot on a stick?? A person would start to think those who are lying to him.............wait for it........is the DEVIL (I personally don't think all white folks are devils but............)

By 13-14 I was already systemically "trained" and my faith shattered. Why shouldn't black folks, especially black men, have the right to be pissed off??

I'm Just Sayin'....

@beanathome It doesn't matter what you "grant". There is no implication here. FACT is no matter how you spin it blacks commit more crime against whites. If you and "unbelievable" are so fed up, look no further than the black community for blame. You play this victim game that only blacks have experienced discrimination and injustice. You both sound a little paranoid.I'm curious to know how old you are?Post civil rights? I grew up in Detroit 1956 -1975, and learned that those who scream racism the loudest usually experienced it the least. I had my fair share of bigotry from the black community with all the racial taunts and name calling:ie casper, whitey, honky,ghost, cracker, white trash etc etc. Do I think all blacks are bad? absolutely not, do I have black friends? yes, still from childhood. The point is everybody has experienced discrimination. People of every color, including whites. Also short ,tall,thin, fat,etc. Again, if black people do not want to be percieved in a negative way as a whole ,then maybe the ones like"unbelievable" should speak loudly at his own community to clean up their act. There is such a thing as social responsibility. And yes,right or wrong, people do judge others by perception:ie mannerism, speech,clothing, attitude,etc.

Why shouldn't black folks, especially black men, have the right to be pissed off??

They should - and I'm just amazed that Blacks have been as civil as they have given the history. But as the Panthers for example showed us, White culture (or whatever group is the elite) will use whatever force necessary to maintain their power. MLK and many other Black leaders found a way around that...like Gandhi, he learned that shaming and conscious raising of the oppressor is the only way out. Cultural jujitsu.

I don't think most people are intentional haters or racists. I think it's either a learned "group think" based on untested stereotypes and unfamiliarity giving rise to fear of the unknown. That's why I see the haters as victims of their own training...now the laziness and refusal change...that IS their fault.

My hope is that the ignorance can be lost over time...and there has been some progress since I've been watching and living the mess for these 62 years. But then you see resurgences of the same old crap and the tragedies it creates like it did for Trayvon and it's depressing, I know. But as you say, Frack them!, I'm not responsible for their stupidity, they are.

I know I don't have to deal with it in the same way you do and there's really nothing I can say that will change it, but hey, there's some of us out here who can feel ya and I just want you to know that.

@lckmiblls,

Statistics do not support your argument. Black on black crime is higher than black on white crime. Your thesis comes from anecdotal, not empirical, evidence.

@Cellphone,

I've always taken the insight of those involved in the enforcement of law - both police and prosecutors - as the best judges of matters such as these.

Thanks for your comments.

@LaKid You must be a product of the LASD. Never said that. I said BLACKS commit more crime against WHITES than WHITES commit against BLACKS. Thesis? Empirical evidence? really? I guess the entire U.S Dept. of Justice is all part of some "conspiracy" against blacks along with the attorney general Eric Holder who just happens to be black? @culheath. Wow, blacks have been civil?when did this take place? Can't recall a single race other than blacks in your 62yrs that have rioted and looted, and killed so many innocent people and somehow you justify it because your pissed? Fact. Over 50 murders during the L.A . riots. Not one single murder conviction. Where's your outrage? Oh , I forgot, they were white and a couple of asians, so they don't count?The black communities selective outrage is laughable at best. Sounds like you've been whining and crying your whole life, I'm a victim,I'm a victim, boo hoo hoo. And I'm sure you past that B.S down to the younger generation over your life to. Look in the mirror if you want to see real bigotry and ignorance .

brendan-4

drug, alcohol, and checking his phone on what grounds? they would need to charge him first.

unless you want the police to do the same next time you forget to use your blinker when driving i suggest you watch what you say...

Killing someone is a more serious thing than failing to use blinkers, don't you think? And if your failure to signal a lane change led to even a minor accident, you probably WOULD be required to take a breathalizer test.

@lckmiblls - the majority of crimes committed by blacks are on other blacks, so my statement is accurate. Read the DOJ states on crimes and the perpetrators, please. You were basing your statement on population figures, not on statistics reported by law enforcement to the DOJ.

Which LA riots are you referring to? The one in 1965? Or the one in 1992? The reason for the lack of conviction from the 1992 riot was the inability of the LAPD and district attorney to identify with reasonable certitude who the alleged murderers were. However, the men involved in the beating of truck driver Reginald Denny were convicted and sentenced primarily because they were identified from TV video of the beating and eye witnesses who went to help Mr. Denny.

WOW! You are thick! I know black crime against blacks are the highest. READ what I said. This is about one race commiting crimes against ANOTHER race.I was talking about the 92 riots. Reginald Denny LIVED. I said murders. Not one conviction, but the simple fact that you mentioned you didn't know which black riot I was talking about speaks volumes in and of itself.I have read the DOJ latest 2010 report. Have you? Apparently not because it is clearly a compilation of the latest reported crimes thru 2010 from every precint in the country. 2011 is not completely compied yet and wont be till around nov. of this year.As far as identifyng with reasonable certitude, it was more practical politically not to pursue them. They didn't want ANOTHER black riot on their hands. Quit justifying your racist thinking by trying to sound intelligent. Face it ,blacks have proven themselves over time to be the most violent, racist, bigoted, anti-social community in the country. Good Lord ,they can't even get along with themselves, as you stated with the black on black crime stats. But I suppose you and others likeminded will somehow twist and spin every excuse in the world to blame someone else, preferably whitey. If anyone should be fed up, it should be white America!If you don't like how you are perceived, then change. Clean up your neighborhoods,get educated, stop commiting so much crime , learn to speak properly, drop the entitlement mentality, the world doesn't OWE you a thing. You've been discriminated against, newsflash! so has everybody else! So what, boo hoo hoo. Get over your so called victimization, act civil towards others, wow there's a novel idea,and soon enough society will treat you with civility in return.

I wasn't there or anyone here wasn't there..its hearsay as of now in a court of law who ever saw it.

Let this take the justice system route..thats our way in life in the USA.

An example of a person being hurt..even by the person standing over you who did it ..has strange laws..you can be sued for just trying to help if in any kind of accident. Example: you hit a person with your car..you turned them over by their arm..someone saw this..the person has a broken arm and you made it worst by turning him over...your not a medical person..why even attempt to help..unless you are a medical person risking your career!

@lckmiblls,

You have obviously inferred from my comments that you know my race - " Quit justifying your racist thinking by trying to sound intelligent. Face it ,blacks have proven themselves over time to be the most violent, racist, bigoted, anti-social community in the country. Good Lord ,they can't even get along with themselves, as you stated with the black on black crime stats. But I suppose you and others likeminded will somehow twist and spin every excuse in the world to blame someone else, preferably whitey. If anyone should be fed up, it should be white America!If you don't like how you are perceived, then change. Clean up your neighborhoods,get educated, stop commiting so much crime , learn to speak properly, drop the entitlement mentality, the world doesn't OWE you a thing. You've been discriminated against, newsflash! so has everybody else! So what, boo hoo hoo. Get over your so called victimization, act civil towards others, wow there's a novel idea,and soon enough society will treat you with civility in return."

Guess what buddy - I'm white. I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood in a gated community in the South Bay (Palos Verdes), so who is the racist here? Attended private school. Graduated in the top 2% of my class. Now don't YOU look like the idiot, thinking you knew who I was and where I came from based solely on my comments. And I watched the City burn in 1965 from my backyard.

BTW, I've conducted research on street crime and the effect of increasing law enforcement patrols through a DOJ grant.

So try again, jerk!

Every one keep bringing up the Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race, I am sorry to disappoint every one, but biologically there is only one RACE of human which is homo sapiens, the only non-extinct race of the primate species hominidae. All physical features such as skin color, eye shape, thickness of hair etc. Are expressions of alleles which we all have, that were brought on by environmental stresses based on where their ancestors inhabited. Ethnicity is based on the shared cultural back ground of an individuals family and history of origin, people with similar ethnic backgrounds often have similar features because the people shared the same culture and environment which triggered certain alleles. The idea of their being different races of human was nothing more than hate propaganda that was fueled and backed by faked and fabricated scientific evidence during the 19th century, where outrageous claims were made saying that Africans were a sub race of humans. Look it up and take a biology class and social studies class before spewing ignorant nonsense that does nothing more than fuel hate filled propaganda. It is this type of fear and miss understanding that lead to Zimmerman murdering and innocent child in cold blood. This was a bigoted crime, Martin would not have been profiled, followed and killed if he was not dark skinned. If Zimmerman had followed, and shot and killed a white 17 year old, he would have been arrested and charged on the spot. This is a case of a legal adult gunning down an unarmed legal minor, he has no right to claim self defense. If he is not charged with murder all of our children are at stake, it would mean it is ok for a grown man with a gun to engage you child in a threatening manner at night, and your child has no right to defend or protect themselves. And to Freedman, you are a moron, the case where the guy shot a man coming at him with an ax in a barn, has no relevance at all here, Martin was unarmed and in the open, also a minor. It doesn't matter that he was a 6" black child, he was still a child, he cant buy cigarettes, or alcohol. As a minor he was under legal care of his parents, and Zimmerman had no right to approach him with out his legal parent or garden present. Zimmerman is nothing more than a bigoted coward and child murder. Even Manson and John Wayne Gacy had friends that said they were nice and good people... Just because you can fool a few people into thinking you are kind and sane, it doesn't mean you should get away with child murder, and I must reiterate the fact that if Trayvon Martins Skin was not of a dark brown hue, Zimmerman would already be under lock and key, facing charges and awaiting trial.

@lckmiblls,

What, no clever retorts or racial slurs now?

If you want to have cogent and articulate discussions with people you know nothing about, perhaps you should refrain from the insults, racial slurs and derogatory comments of your posts. Nothing in my comments regarding crime statistics was a slur against "whitey". I was merely pointing out that your conclusion on criminal activity by minorities was flawed. You, sir, are the one who went off the deep end - I feel sorry for you.

And having lived through the 1965 Watts riots, I am competent to state that whites were also victims of the riots. However, once the Lt. Governor called out the CA National Guard and troops had encircled Watts, mainly to prevent snipers from shooting at the LAFD trying to put out the fires and the looters from accessing other LA neighborhoods (my father and fathers of my friends talked about arming themselves to "prevent them from coming up here"), the riots were over by the time MLK showed up.

Was that proper English and civil enough for you? From a white upper middle class kid with a very fine education who is from a higher socio/economic class than you but would NEVER hold that against you.

:-)

South bay, private school,gated community? yeah you've lived the experience haven't you ? And who would that be burning the city? When was your DOJ grant? Nice try,I've read the latest from 2010. I suggest you read it before commenting. These facts I've stated are so easy for even the layman as yourself to verify. Like I said before, numbers don't lie but you do. Obviously you have trouble interpeting what I am saying. When did I say you were black? Once again, and go slow this time, READ what I said. I was talking about the black community in general as a whole I refered to you as "likeminded". I will try and dumbdown the conversation in the future with you, so you can keep up . Guess what buddy- your a liar. READ the DOJ 2010 report! Conducted research on the street?? I suppose Zimmerman can make that same claim. I will give you this though, you have proven beyond a doubt that old saying "you can't fix stupid" is absolutely true! You may have watched the city burn from your "Palos Verde" backyard, but I lived it in Detroit 1965 and 1967 with my neighbors( mostly black) suffering from the effects firsthand. So my educated idiot, quit trying to be the great white hope to the black community, I think they would prefer the truth just like everyone else instead of the constant pandering from people like you in hopes of looking righteous in the eyes of others.You calling me a racist? That's all you got? Any blacks out there reading this you know any "whiteboy" that grew up in Detroit for 19 yrs, that statement could only come from someone extremely naive. I wouldn't have lasted one week let alone 19yrs living in the inner city of Detroit if that were true. Now who's the idiot? BTW, Just so you know I'm not B.S.ING like you, I was born at Wyandotte county hospital. Don't worry "LAKid" you wont get it, but the blacks reading this will know that only someone truly from there would be able to know that hospital and be able to spell it correctly!

Lived through the 65 Watts riots? From your upper middle class home in Palos Verdes? Really? Are you delusional?, early dementia? or just plain old ignorant? "Higher socio/economics class," sounds a little racist( just saying) I suggest you drop the elitist attitude and further your education a bit . BTW, I graduated from UCIrvine, degree in economics ,but not in the top 2%, just the top 20% a little above average which is fine with me. Would like to keep this discussion going however I am required elsewhere. Good luck in your ignorance "LAKid" and may the world be saved by your great white hope!

lckmiblls, you certainly have issues.

Comments such as "If you don't like how you are perceived, then change. Clean up your neighborhoods,get educated, stop commiting so much crime , learn to speak properly, drop the entitlement mentality, the world doesn't OWE you a thing. You've been discriminated against, newsflash! so has everybody else! So what, boo hoo hoo. Get over your so called victimization, act civil towards others, wow there's a novel idea,and soon enough society will treat you with civility in return" made when responding to my posts about crime statistics are inferring that I am a member of that group with the entitlement mentality you so disparagingly condemn. My comments have been solely to dispute your conclusions about CRIME statistics. Purely an academic position. You are the one who turned it into a racial issue, accusing me of "pandering" to minorities and trying "to look righteous in the eyes of others" and "trying to be the great white hope to the black community" - these are YOUR words, sir, not mine. Please go back and read my posts. I just commented on statistics. And have since attempted to dispute your personal attacks which do not facilitate analytical discussion.

If we are going to trade vitaes - here's mine. Born in the hospital in Inglewood, near LAX. Grew up in Rolling Hills Estates (yes, it really exists) on the Palos Verdes (not Verde; which means Green Place in Spanish) Peninsula which is south of LA near San Pedro. Attended Chadwick School which is a private k-12 school in what is now Palos Verdes Estates. No BS. Sorry I didn't have your "inner city of Detroit" experience but I refuse to apologize for where and how I was raised, given that my father was the son of Irish immigrants and the first in his family to attend college - his father worked on the railroads. My father did quite well for himself, thank you, providing his children a quality education and experiences we treasure, God rest his soul. Something all immigrants and children thereof aspire to do.

You will get no mea culpa from me.

Discussion over.

@lakid Hey wanna be gangsta, you still whining? whaaaaaaaa,whaaaaaaaa,whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa,whaaaaaaaaaa,whaaaaaaaaaaaa,whaaaaaaaa !!

you are describing the FL law.

Actually, this is what you are describing that occurred just last night:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/male-student-shot-death-mississippi-state-university-suspects/story?id=15997857

And this:

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/05/3471164/police-investigate-burning-of.html

No rioting or marches erupted, just more fear and loathing of the criminal element, from the above links provided by littlechanges, in the news over these crimes.

Where is the media and protestors on these atrocities as well?

Just wondering is all.

there are reports the kid ran away and circled back and sucker punched zimmerman which ensued into a wrestling match then a fatal shooting... suppose he didn't persue however, all of a sudden - out of f'n nowhere - SUCKER punch - it's on...

Zimmerman was not motivated by race.

Actually, he was motivated by skin color. He racially profiled this kid based off of previous break ins.

He made the assumption that this kid was up to no good based off of his race. In his mind, this kid was just another criminal looking to break in to a house.

Zimmerman never gave any other options any consideration.

jerryb-1604912, i agree with everything you said except the part about it not being motivated by race. The only reason why this came into play is because on the 911 tapes when Zimmerman was talking to the dispatcher, he said Martin was a f***ing coon. This is why the racist issue opened up.

Dos Locos, yes, there was a struggle and Zimmerman got punched in the nose by Martin. Are you saying this is an acceptable reason to KILL? Half the population would be wiped out if we all lived by that rule. And, I will bet you all the money in the world that punch did NOT come out of no where. Zimmerman pursued a "suspicious hood wearing" black kid. Martin is naturally going to feel threatened. Zimmerman pursued Martin and a physical altercation happened. Who threw the first punch no one knows. Martin had no idea who Zimmerman was and vice versa. Of course Martin is going to defend himself. As I said in another post, in the end, it is clear on the 911 tape Martin was trying to get away from Zimmerman crying of help then bang he is dead.

God Bless

I heard the tape on CNN and it sounded like a wet vac sucking water. I couldn't make one word out after 6 plays with a sound engineer trying to clean it up.

You hit the nail on the head. He was told NOT to follow yet still did. It is obvious he was a "wannabe hero" but instead was a real ZERO.

Dos Locos -- the ONLY reports of that kid "sucker punching" Zimmerman are the drivle posted by "Freedman".

Of course if you can point to ONE source that backs that up (NOT including Freedman's posts), I'd be happy to read it.

Go to the sanford florida website and see the police report. It states very clearly that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head, and the nose. He was placed, in handcuffs, in the back of a squad car, where he received medical treatment. The picture on TV is from 2007 or 2008 of when Zimmerman was arrested and is not a current picture. Trayvon, again, according to the police report, is 6' 0" tall and weighs 160 pounds. Zimmerman is 5' 9".

According to two eye witnesses, a man was on top of another man. The person on the bottom was screaming help help, then there was a loud sound. Zimmerman's back is completely wet (it was raining) and with grass stains. There is no info to be found on whether Trayvon's back is wet or had grass stains, nowhere have I found that information. Trayvon was found face down and was shot in the chest, not from behind. A Black gentleman, and a decade long friend of Zimmerman's, said that the voice on the 911 tape screaming help was definitely Zimmerman's. Go to ABCnews to see that interview.

I encourage people to seek the truth for themselves. The 911 calls are online and reveal much info that you will not hear from any media outlet because they prefer to keep everyone speculating so they will tune in tomorrow. We won't know the whole truth until April but if you're going to speculate, at least get it from the source not the media.

Beth:

Read this eye witness account from the best witness police have:

According to Tampa Bay Fox affiliate WTVT-TV, what the witness says he saw could bolster Zimmerman’s claim that he shot Martin in self-defense:

“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon. Yet he took the law into his own hands. What was going on in Zimmerman's mind at the time or in his life obviously made him take the action he did. Zimmerman was wrong. Neighborhood watch means watch. Not carry a gun and use it. If Trayon did fight he was the one using self-defense. Zimmerman should be arrested immediately and a formal trial held so all details, witness reports, police reports, etc can become public during the trial. Zimmerman does not deserve to be in hiding for his protection or any other reason. He deserves to be in jail awaiting a trial.

According to Tampa Bay Fox affiliate WTVT-TV, what the witness says he saw could bolster Zimmerman’s claim that he shot Martin in self-defense:

I don't think the witness statement necessarily support's Zimmerman's claim.

1st - Zimmerman pursued Martin.\, even after he was told NOT to pursue Martin.

2nd - The witness doesn't claim to have seen the beginning of the confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin. He only saw the struggle AFTER it had already begun.

A Black gentleman, and a decade long friend of Zimmerman's, said that the voice on the 911 tape screaming help was definitely Zimmerman's.

Wonder what his reaction to the call was when Zimmerman clearly said 'f-ing coon.'

Mary Cutcher told Dateline that she and her roommate both saw Zimmerman "straddling the body, basically a foot on both sides of Trayvon's body, and his hands pressed on his back."

If the bullet went straight through,Zimmerman may have been trying to stop the bleeding.

SANFORD, Fla. (MCT) — Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, leader Mikhail Muhammad announced during a protest in Sanford Saturday.

When asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly saying: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

The bounty announcement came moments after members of the group called for the mobilization of 5,000 black men to capture George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin last month.

Muhammad said members of his group would search for Zimmerman themselves in Maitland and Jacksonville — where the 28-year-old worked before the shooting, employees there said.

Muhammad said the group's national chairman, Dr. Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, D.C., is receiving donations from black entertainers and athletes. They hope to collect $1 million by next week, Muhammad said.

The party said they would not release the names of donors nor would they provide documentation to support the existence of donations.

The New Black Panthers announced the reward at a protest in Sanford on Saturday, the activist group's third protest in the past two weeks over the fatal shooting of the Miami Gardens teen.

The group called for Zimmerman's arrest and threatened to find and detain him if police were not willing to do so. But group members didn't call for the mobilization of thousands until Saturday.

Muhammed led the group in chanting "Justice for Trayvon!" and "Black Power!"

"If the government won't do the job, we'll do it," Muhammad said, leading his group of eight party members in chants like "freedom or death" and "justice for Trayvon" while making the iconic gesture of raising their fists into the air.

The party members said they are tired of the inaction of government officials — from Sanford city officials up to the governor, accusing them of lying and delaying justice.

They accused newly appointed special prosecutor Angela Corley of being an enemy of the black community.

"She has a track record of sending innocent young black men and women to prison," he said.

No problem with that right?

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE

any members of the new BLACK PANTHERS

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Zimmerman was not registered with the National Sheriffs Association, which sponsors the Neighborhood Watch. So you can't even call him a watch captain. At best he was a dbag running around thinking he could play real life cops and robbers, and at worst he though he was fully authorized to use any and all force law enforcement could if he saw a "suspicious person". I also do not think that death is warranted in the event it turns out he acted maliciously. No, he deserves to spend the rest of his natural life contemplating how he ended an innocent young man's life, and destroyed his own in doing so. That is the best punishment that could be meted out

Eric: Zimmerman doesn't have to be registered with the National Sheriffs Association. The Sanford PD were the ones who helped organize the neighborhood watch in which Zimmerman was annoited captain by both the people of the community as well as recognized as such by the Sanford PD. Neighborhood watch groups are normally monitored by the local authorites. There is however an association for neighborhood watch groups (don't remember the name, but was mentioned elsewhere on the net), but even so, there is no national sponsorship that requires watch groups to sign up with. As I have been on a neighborhood watch program before, it's all done at the local law enforcement level.

Read this eye witness account from the best witness police have:

I did. Please show where that shows that Martin came around and "sucker punched" Zimmerman. It's NOT there. He saw a SMALL PORTION of the fight.

But it all comes down to Zimmerman, by getting out of the car and chasing the kid AGAINST the orders of the dispatcher, was the aggressor. Had he stayed in the car, no shooting.

To Ron, no, I don't support that either.

What is going on now is pure extortion and obstruction of justice,

There are many people that need to be in jail and none of them are involved in the case itself.

Please show where that shows that Martin came around and "sucker punched" Zimmerman. It's NOT there.

Beth

It is up to the state or the feds to prove that it did not happen the way Zimmerman said.

The burden of proof is on them not Zimmerman and if they could even come close to proving that he would have been arrested already.

Ron -- I was never arguing burden of proof from any people in the case. I was arguing that people who are posting "facts" here on Newsvine should prove them; otherwise quit posting garbage.

Sorry Beth,

My bad :-)

I was a military dependent during the vietnam war, growing up in tokyo, japan. When my family moved back to the states in 1971 My twin sister and were the victims of being bullied by members of our on race, African american. the bullied escalated one day to a physical altercation in which my nose was broken by one of the bullies hitting me in the face with a math book, while i was held by her group. I was hospitalized and had surgery the next day, to put my nose back in place and pack it until I healed. My points are, why is zimmerman in hiding and not been trreated for his injuries? And also because my sister and I spoke and acted in a different way, we were victims of narrow-minded hate from our on race of people. So hate comes in all shapes and sizes. any one can be a can be filled with racism. It is a learned behavior and if learned there is always hope that it can be unlearned.

No problem Ron! :)