That is so right. Our media has gotten out of control, they dont reliaze that level minded americans cant make proper decisions when it comes to issues. Why is thier threat of riots, why. All of america is upset with the handling of the case, so why the cry for violence. All it does is make americans look like we cant handle issues with any type of peaceful frame of mind. Stop acting like fools and making america look idiotic. Were better than this, we can handle this with dignity and professionally with peaceful yet stern voices. Not with any type of violence. This message is not to all americans but to the foolish who dont understand how to handle thier emotions with an adult mentality not like a 3 year old mentality

Both of them did wrong things.

It does not excuse the fact that the punk broke the guys nose when asked if he lived in the area.

By the time Trevor or Traymore or whatever his name is became 20, based on his last year's activities, he would have been locked up for Murder or Rape or Drug Dealing.

The NY Times identified Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic." A white Hispanic??????????? WTF???? The media is trying to make this into a racial incident while all but ignoring black-on-black crimes to try to paint former Gov. Jeb Bush as having "blood on his hands." These people are sick.

So, by the NYT's characterization, should our president be labeled as a "white Black??? Or a "white African American????

Let's just - for the moment - take a nice deep breath and let it out slowly and let the system do its work. With the light that is being shined onto this matter we will all be quite able to make up our own minds after the Grand Jury completes its work. Until then this think is just going to be a roller-coaster ride in the media and I - for one - am tired of being manipulated by all of the competing interests, including the "journalists" who just keep trying to fan the flames.

Right. It's the media's fault. Is that all the conservatives have these days to deflect racism?

Sadly this case is turning into what I have feared for the last three years. Politicians and stars along with the news have been painting everything with a racial overtone to the point that people are starting to tune it out. This will only lead to when true atrocities do happen people will think it's just another civil rights movement leader that had relevance 50 years ago that does not realize it is time to move on and start the healing instead of screaming wolf when their is none. As a minority that has lost millions of my people because of racial hatred I find this both disgust me and saddens me because in the end our children will pay and no one will notice!

Does anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse Team. Media had them all convicted. Girl lied and District Attorney ended up being disbarred and ended up in prison.

Why isn't the media showing the picture of the kid with his short off throwing up gang sings and the guy in his nice suit.

The truth will come but the media is cause severe social damage by their bias actions.

This is just tooooooo simple. Zimmerman did what the 911 operator repeatedly told him not to do. Zimmerman introduced a firearm into a situation that should never have occurred. For whatever reason, control of that firearm was in jeopardy. So, the possession of the firearm by an irresponsible citizen resulted in the death of another citizen. This was at least manslaughter due to Zimmerman;s irresponsibility. Depending on what actually transpired it might be murder in the first degree and a hate crime but it is in no way less than manslaughter and not arresting Zimmerman is an outrage. Zimmerman's possession of a weapon makes him responsible for it. The fact that his conduct left him in a position where he felt he had to use it does not amount to self defense because he is responsible for the gun being there and the danger it created.

Pedro Sanchez-2919871

blah, blahn blah

Because everyone with half a brain has figured out that the BS pictures of Travon throwing gang signs came from a facebook page owned by a different Trayvon Martin. Amazing what you can learn when you pull your head out.

Wow someone that actually understands the lawful meaning of self defense...I concur at least manslaughter

Oh my God can you stop with your ignorance? There is such a thing as a white Hispanic. In the Hispanic community, black Hispanics experience racism with other white Hispanics! Are you so white that you just don't know anything about the major ethnic groups in your own damn country? I'm not Hispanic and I know this. I already posted one of these but I'll post it again.

White Hispanics - most of the people you would think of as Hispanics (JLo, Eva Longoria, Salma Hayek, Penelope Cruz)

Brown Hispanics - George Lopez

Black Hispanics - Tatyana Ali, Rosario Dawson, Sammy Davis Jr, Dania Ramierez, Christina Milian, Zoe Saldana, Juan Williams, Alex Rodriguez

*Mixed White Hispanics - Christina Aguilera, Alexis Bledel, Carmen Diaz, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

Do Christina Aguilera, Alexis Bledel, and Carmen Diaz look "Hispanic" to you? Because they all look like they could pass for white to me.

one is a race (white/brown/black) and the other is an ethnic group (Hispanic/African-American)

Amen to what SoftDude said!

Besides the police identify Zimmerman as a WHITE MALE...so stop with the media hyping everything!

How did this Murder "Take on a Life of it's Own"?

Why does Race always come into place in white upon black murders---Yes, I am very sad that Trayvon Martin Died. Very sad.

I'm tired of hearing about Racism as an excuse for Murder---Thousands get murdered in this country (all races), and 99 per cent of the time, the focus is not on the color of the skin. Al Sharpton/Rev. Jesse Jackson seem to show Americans that nothing has changed in the world of being African American. We have a first Black President. Those 2 want to keep the Culture down, so they can keep the madness brewing 24/7 for how many more years?

I hope Zimmerman gets his due; that we find out the exact details of this needless murder. My sympathies to the Martin Family---Al Sharpton/Rev.Jesse Jackson are using them as pawns to all Americans.

All of this outrage is caused by the media getting involved. If they hadn't made such a big deal about this, know body would know about it and that good old southern justice would have taken care of it.

Thanks Media!

This whole fiasco erupting is the police departments fault for trying to sweep this poor kids death under the rug in the first place. John Doe number what--67-68??? Give me a break. I hope all involved are thrown into the courts and if found guilty, thrown to the dogs in prison.

softdude your wrong, he had a ccw permit, which means he can carry anytime he wants with the exception of state and fed buildings and transportation hubs, he was returning from the store, he had a right to carry his gun, it was holstered, he was on foot following trayvon, he was told you dont need to do that, he was not told Dont do that, he said ok and turned to walk back to his SUV, Trayvon confronted him, from behind, he turned around and got his nose broke, (GUN STILL IN HOLSTER), trayvon got on top and slammed his head into the concrete, GUN STILL IN HOLSTER, he screams, a witness saw trayvon on top of him, he yelled STOP, im calling 911, he got upstairs, heard a shot looked down saw man who was on top laying on the ground appearing not to move. the gun shot wound was from close range. Looks like he had control of his gun the whole time. Get all the facts before you find someone guilty. Remember Casey Anthony, the media had her spot on death row all picked out, look how that turned out, remember OJ, how did that turn out, THOROUGH INVESTIGATION. none of us were there, only 2 people really know what happened, and one is dead. They cant manufacture a case, its there or it isnt.

The State of Florida seems to have a problem with their Investigations/ Justice for the victims of all the people who have been kidnapped, raped, and murdered there--especially the Pedophiles who kill little girls and boys (John Walsh's son, as well). Now Martin.

Why does it always happen in Florida--have had my experience with their police, and the ones I met, seemed very uninterested re: my problem. Does the Hot Sun make them dazed? What's the matter with them?

Sadly, this case is turning into a history of racism in America. On the one hand you have to people who say, with a mountain of justification: "it is a perceived crime to "walk while black".

And on the other hand, there are lined up a bunch of half witted avowed racists, ready to trash one poor kid with being being a "punk-ass gang banging thief" with no evidence whatsoever.

If it's "tried in the internet" Zimmerman gets the chair, but, thankfully, he gets a court of las, not the court of uninformed opinion that supports him on the internet. If he had only those bunch of bigots, he would already be ...

jones, i still don't get how he could be called a john doe when the police report of the incident states his name and birthdate. This whole case is fishy or worse yet, just good ole southern justice being shown to the nation proving that the South never left the 60's.

flyerznut

softdude your wrong, he had a ccw permit, which means he can carry anytime he wants with the exception of state and fed buildings and transportation hubs, he was returning from the store, he had a right to carry his gun, it was holstered, he was on foot following trayvon, he was told you dont need to do that, he was not told Dont do that, he said ok and turned to walk back to his SUV, Trayvon confronted him, from behind, he turned around and got his nose broke, (GUN STILL IN HOLSTER), trayvon got on top and slammed his head into the concrete, GUN STILL IN HOLSTER, he screams, a witness saw trayvon on top of him, he yelled STOP, im calling 911, he got upstairs, heard a shot looked down saw man who was on top laying on the ground appearing not to move. the gun shot wound was from close range. Looks like he had control of his gun the whole time. Get all the facts before you find someone guilty.

Heed your own bolded words. Everything above those words from you are complete hearsay and not facts at all.

How did this Murder "Take on a Life of it's Own"?

Why does Race always come into place in white upon black murders---Yes, I am very sad that Trayvon Martin Died. Very sad.

I'm tired of hearing about Racism as an excuse for Murder---Thousands get murdered in this country (all races), and 99 per cent of the time, the focus is not on the color of the skin. Al Sharpton/Rev. Jesse Jackson seem to show Americans that nothing has changed in the world of being African American. We have a first Black President. Those 2 want to keep the Culture down, so they can keep the madness brewing 24/7 for how many more years?

I hope Zimmerman gets his due; that we find out the exact details of this needless murder. My sympathies to the Martin Family---Al Sharpton/Rev.Jesse Jackson are using them as pawns to all Americans.

Thanks brother Wayne, I happen to be a liberal - so shoot me - but I think tha Jon Stewart has it right.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-march-26-2012-shaquille-o-neal

Oh, by the way this will not only make you ROTFL but may help put some of this into perspective.

Oh, by the way - the Shaq interview is great.

Softdude!!! EXACTLY!! I don't understand what there is for any rational thinking individual to not "get" about this issue... Zimmerman left his vehicle; thereby introducing the gun into the equation. Then he pursued Treyvon, an altercation ensued, the gun was introduced, Zimmerman discharged the gun, Teyvon is dead... an arrest should be made... What is so hard to understand about that.

flyerznut, when you invoke OJ and Casey Anthony as if the process rightly exonerated them, your entire argument goes from convoluted to nonsense.

It's scary how the media is in a feeding frenzy.

It will be impossible to get a jury that has not already decided that he is guilty before a trial.

Gee, has anyone noticed the price of gas went up again?

What’s the deal with Obama making secret deals with Russia after his election?

Why didn’t Obama celebrate his Obamacare birthday?

What’s the latest on the Supreme Court Obamacare hearings?

Why is Syria moving into Lebanon?

What is the latest on the Iranian nuclear weapons?

I sure hope the elderly couple that shares the name Zimmerman that Spike Lee tweeted their address is safe from the black panthers

Rep. Charlie Rangel Fined $23K For Using Rent-Stabilized Harlem Digs As Campaign HQ

I guess MSN and the liberal media doesn’t want us worrying about these less important issues…

@culhealth... pretty much what the witnesses said what happened... The gun never was shown until Martin assaulted Zimmerman... Police said that the evidence of both people's injuries, and what witnesses said back up Zimmermans story. This is why no arrest.

It's not a crime to follow anyone at a distance in this country unless you have a restraining order. Zimmerman didn't break any laws. He was walking back to his car when Martin jumped him. Last time I checked, you can't smack someone's head into the ground with intent to injur. That's a fellony assault. Deadly force is then allowed... did you miss something?

Timmb I hate to tell you this but the U.S, government considers a person as African American if they are half . The same goes for half Hispanic. If a person is half A-A and half Hispanic that person is considered as Affrican American.Check with the Census,Health.and Social Security administrations.

mopman411

that is a horrible and ghastly crime I never want to hear of again, it is the thing nightmares are made of, however, if you read the article you would know the perpetrators are either sentenced to death or life without parole. They are not walking around free, allowed to keep the weapon they murdered those poor people with. that is a sizable difference.

And so it begins. The media has screwed up, therefore now they must attack this guy, before he is even arrested, charged, or tried.

So the character assassinations on both sides continue...this is a tragic death that needs to be rationally investigated...which is happening! It's time for all sides to disengage and let justice be done. Sorry but Selma, Alabama was a long time ago. America has grown beyond it's racist past and soon the white population will be in the minority. And Florida is not a racist state with the KKK hiding behind every palm or pine tree. Remember it was in the Obama electorial column last election and put Obama over the top.The Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons are a figment of the past. The new civil rights movement leaders are those blacks who have lifted themselves to the corridors of power in American business. They need to step forward, set an example, create a new image of black liberation and success, and help their black brothers and sisters get educated, heal their families, and stop the violence in the black communities. Yesterday, a young black male in Michigan, a stellar A+ student, received from his mother and father an Apple iPad. Proudly, he walked out of his house to show his other black friends his new iPad. A black gang member walked up to him, pulled out a gun, and shot that young man, Trayvon's age, in the head, killing him, and took his iPad. Why are Jesse and Al not outraged by this incident? And this is happening every day in the black community...and the people in these communities are scared and need help.

The Bonfire of the Vanities.

mochabeans

Rule of law dictates that if someone claims self defense(stand your ground) that it has to be proven otherwise. If it can't be proven otherwise then, in this case, its a conviction because the public has found someone guilty.

Innocent until proven guilty. Not that hard to understand.

Everybody here is entitled to their opinions, but everyone here are not investigators, so people jump to conclusions before all the facts are out.

Read up on your history! It reminds me of John Adams having the difficult task of defending the British Soldiers regarding the "Shots heard around the world". This incident was prior to the Revolutionary War. People had a mob mentality and just wanted their blood without the completion of an investigation. Turns out the soldiers were defending themselves from and unruly crowd and were vindicated!

The CURRENT PRESIDENT has NOT denounced the $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman's head that was put forth by the Black Panthers. This organization should be tried for inciting riots. Obama has proven not to be a leader of the people, just a liberal hack!

Apparently the stand your ground act is if your life is threatened. You have the right to use deadly force. It's a good law. It shouldn't be a law but lawyers love tort! They get rich off of it.

This media including this rediculous agenda by MSNBC to attack republicans and to make everything racist. A White Latino! Is Obama called a White Black? I mean it is only good to use White when something has gone bad, because apparently WHITE is EVIL!! If you are that foolish and that naive to believe that whites are the ones who have committed atrocities against another race, nationality, or creed, then I have pity for your hatred!

First off, Ben, Hispanic is not a race. It's merely a label for those people with Spanish-language or cultural roots. "Hispanic" is akin to the ambiguous label of "American".

If you travel across Latin America, you'll find that the Spanish-speaking peoples are white, black, mestizo, mulatto, yellow, red and brown -- take your pick of racial descriptors.

By definition, Brazilians are not Hispanics. That's the trouble with use of the word as compared to Latinos.

RJSimons, you nailed it. The "press" wants to stir up trouble to create more news for them to report on. They'd love to see this evolve into a full-blown race riot between Blacks and Hispanics. MSNBC has even sent their #1 race baiter, Al Sharpton, down there to stir up things.

Al Sharpton has got quite the track record in situations like this. Remember Tawana Brawley? Yeah, her and Sharpton got together to accuse six white guys, including policemen, of raping her when she was 15. The only problem was they made the whole story up.

Then more recently we had Al Sharpton convicting the Duke lacrosse players of raping two black women.....which turned out to be another fabrication.

You know when Al Sharpton is involved that "truth and justice" have nothing to do with it. It's all about race baiting and dividing the country, just like Obama does. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farrakhan would be out of jobs if they can't keep dividing Whites and Blacks with charges of racism. Those pieces of scum THRIVE on racism. They perpetuate racism.

@ Doc - the Media IS RESPONSIBLE for much of the "Outrage" generated in this case. Even the Main Stream media has jumped on the "Racism" bandwagon, despite repeated proof to the contrary. I am ready to boycott CBS morning news due to this behavior. They have tried really hard to make this a race issue, to the point of being rude to guests when their comments do not support their racism theory. And we have all those sheep believing this crap and distributing it far and wide. The bottom line is Travon's parents may never get the "justice" they think they deserve. I'm sorry their son died, but it is clear they didn't do their part as well in this. Teaching their son to act appropriately in this situation. Had he talked with Zimmerman and stated who he was visiting, none of this would have happened. Instead, (by current accounts,) Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. Why didn't the Father, or the Girlfriend tell Trayvon about this? If I was living in a community like that, I would tell ALL MY VISITORS what was going on. As a resident of the community, it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to protect my guests. As a Parent, it would be MY RESPONSIBILITY to teach my children.

Doc Thomas Comment collapsed by the community

Right. It's the media's fault. Is that all the conservatives have these days to deflect racism?

Doc,

You are correct.

All the media has is "blame Trayvon for Zimmerman's deadly actions and to blame the media for this crime." The facts do not support the unjust position that some people want to take.

Our "upstanding" defender of his neighborhood was not above reproach, after all.

Regarding Zimmerman...

He attacked the police and the police charged him with assault, his former fiance requested a restraining order to avoid his violence, he violated speeding and traffic laws and received a speeding ticket and only God knows what else this individual has done that still has not been disclosed. The assault charge and restraining order are serious events. These incidents are indicative of an impulsive individual who has an explosive temper.

If Zimmerman was attacked on the night of February 26, 2012, where are the photos to prove how badly Trayvon "attacked" him? If this wayward vigilante received a "scratch" on him during a possible altercation with the victim, it was because he had accosted Trayvon and Trayvon defended himself.

softdude Comment collapsed by the community

This is just tooooooo simple. Zimmerman did what...911...told him not to do. Zimmerman introduced a firearm into a situation that should never have occurred. The fact that his conduct left him in a position where he felt he had to use it does not amount to self defense because he is responsible for the gun being there and the danger it created.

Softdude,

You are 100% right.

Zimmerman is responsible for the gun being at the scene and the danger that the weapon created.

This case is extremely simple.

Zimmerman should be arrested.

corection:

All the Conservatives have is "blame Trayvon for Zimmerman's deadly actions and blame the media for this crime."

I'm late this party and the comment has been collapsed so few will see this but;

When we attack the media collectively we are acting as stupid as stupid can possibly be. The "media" are not engaged in a conspiracy to cause social unrest. The first post begins with an admonition for the media to "shut up" and has 110 votes? Really? People would tell an organization charged with dispensing information which is vital to understanding events in our country and around the world to stop providing information.

Bias is apparent in some stories, some articles are not well written, some reporters are lazy and don't fact check, sometimes sources will deliberately distort the facts and a reporter may not catch the lie(s) but "the media" is an organization of individuals engaged in the effort to provide information.

In countries where the "media" is attacked for doing their job, information is hard to come by or impossible to get at all. The rhetoric that supports the paranoid idea that an entire profession is engaged in some type of all encompassing conspiracy is a sign of the deep lack of trust embraced by so many with weak minds who are grasping at any idea that supports their own bias on any given topic.

If enough people buy into this ridiculous idea, those we rely on to report the news will be ever more at risk of harm for attempting to do their job. If enough public support for such ideas is developed, laws will be passed that compromise the media's ability to freely seek and report the information that is the very foundation of who we are and we'll end up with publicly supported media suppression, which, if we're being paranoid and stupid anyway you may want to consider could be a goal of some people in high places. So any of you paranoid fools want to think about what kind of society we'll have then? How about a society that is so starved for information they'll start relying on blog sites for their facts! Won't that be great? We could really start taking giant steps backward then and perhaps get all the way back to the 1950's. To those times when men were men and other people knew to keep their big mouths shut lest they get beat!

The media are people just like us! Individuals, engaged in a tough job. These individuals are as varied as the rest of our society and so are the publications they work for. If you think there is a profession-wide conspiracy to incite social unrest then I feel sorry for you and you should probably stop reading the news and go see your therapist!

It may be possible that Zimm won't be able to get a fair trial now. If he were to be found not guilty there will no doubt be rioting across America. Don't even think for a minute that government can't, won't or haven't already thought about making him a scapegoat to prevent this from happening. I'm not sure if Zimm is in the wrong, but believe he's actually going to have to prove he's not guilty instead of being innocent until proven guilty.

I don't get the left at all.

Jimmy, what does this have to do with "the left"?!?

If you are being attacked you have the right to defend yourself. Period. Even if Zimmerman shouldn't have followed him (which isn't against the law by the way), once Trayvon laid hands on him Zimmerman had every right to defend himself. What right does Trayvon have to attack him?

Trayvon could have used the same argument that Zimmerman used, that is "I thought the guy was going to mug me, so I punched him." Zimmerman initiated the entire confrontation by following Martin off the street (exiting his vehicle) and between two rows of townhomes. Although this is not necessarily a crime (and it can be by the way, it's called criminal harassment) it is most definitely an aggressive act that one might feel inclined to defend themselves against. This is why it's likely manslaughter and not murder (assuming Martin struck Zimmerman first) and Zimmerman cannot claim the protections of the "stand your ground" law. Zimmerman followed Martin, Martin stood his ground, Zimmerman was losing the fight, so Zimmerman shot him. Clear cut case of manslaughter, period.

What if it were the other way around, with Zimmerman attacking Trayvon and Trayvon shooting Zimmerman? The majoriy of you hippocrates wouldn't even care then (mainly because you are all brainwashed into being racist towards whites). I hope you are in a similar situation someday. I would love to see how you react.

I know exactly how I'd react in that situation. I'd follow the instructions of 911 dispatch and stay in my damn vehicle thereby not introducing a firearm into a possible physical altercation!!! How hard is this to understand?

Sighber, great post. The tactic of attacking the media became en vogue back in the 60's/70's when it appeared to some that the media was against the Vietnam War and was perfected on AM talk radio (I'm not naming names).

It's a coverall, and falls under the "if you don't like the message, attack the messenger" meme. It's also stupid, as you so eloquently stated. Again, good post.

As well you do understand that the 911 operators are not police officers don't you?

So you are saying the volunteer neighborhood watch guy has the authority to over rule a 911 operator. Right.....

I believe a voice analysis on the 911 call would show if it was Zimmerman calling for help. If it is Zimmerman's speach, then it would be apparent he was the one was in trouble and that he reacted accordingly. If however, it was not him, then it must have been Trayvon and Zimmerman then should be tried for murder or manslaughter.

Most of you are biased lemmings...MSNBC is blatantly taking sides on this issue by reporting past indiscretions by Zimmerman without reporting past indiscretions by Martin...before calling for the head of Zimmerman, let the FACTS come out. If Zimmerman indeed provoked the incident, he should be tried and hopefully convicted. If, on the other hand, he is telling the truth (and right now, there is at least 1 witness who supports Zimmerman's side of the story - MSNBC isn't reporting that either), then Zimmerman should be left alone. LET THE FACTS DICTATE THE APPROPRIATE ACTIONS - STOP CONVICTING ANYONE (BOTH MARTIN AND ZIMMERMAN) BASED ON ACCUSATION, HERESAY, AND YOUR POLITICAL BIASES!!!!!

Hawain,

Because if this had been black on white violence, or black on black violence, or even white on white violence, Zimmerman would have already have been investigated, arrested, tried, and sentenced.

Everyone Else,

Let's look at it from the worst possible view of Trayvon, let's say we was there to do no good, there are still some essential facts you're leaving out...

1. He's a kid. Call 17 an adult you want, but our frontal lobes which control impulse don't finish developing until about 25.

2. He's significantly smaller than Zimmerman.

3. He didn't institigate any interaction with Zimmerman.

4. Zimmerman was told to cease following him and disregarded the 911 operator.

5. Zimmerman confronted him without the authority to do so, after following him.

6. The larger, stronger, person was armed.

7. Zimmerman has made claims that he was assaulted so bad he had a right to shoot Trayvon, but no medical records for treatment of his nose or head have been released.

So let me ask you this, if I'm in a neighborhood, walking after dark with a hoodie on, and someone who is significantly larger than me begins following me, than gets out of his car to confront me, I freak out and punch him in the face, should I be shot?

The crux of this issue is that none of this would have happened, BUT FOR Zimmerman's actions. At best he's a wanna be cop who was racially profiling and committed manslaughter. Trayvon didn't engage until the guy that was following him confronted him, in which case, I'd be pretty damn scared too.

Blame the media all you want for this, but the fault lays in the shoddy and shady police work surrounding it. If they had done their job, the public outcry would not be necessary. This is why we have a 1st Amendment, so that we can call for justice when we need to. No one's advocating for lynching him, at least no one with a brain, we're advocating for a proper investigation and the opportunity to let the justice system work.

Anyone who isn't racially biased, or really believes in justice, or really defends this law, will want this investigated and brought before a jury so we can clear this up and move on. Those who stand in the way of that have something to hide, either their actions or there secret racism.

No more trouble with the law in the last 7 years make those things irrelevant. Why don't you "judges" let the investigation proceed and the truth to be revealed?

Right now, I am a white person who is about to go out to my yard in the full sun to trim bushes and do other yard work. When my skin gets sun burned, can I start identifying myself as a 'red white person'? Then when the sun burn turns to a brown hue, will others considered me a 'brown white guy'?

People, this is sooooooooooooooooo ridiculous! We are all members of the 'human race' and not some subset within racial politics. Let the truth come out with the Zimmerman/Martin case and let the facts speak for themselves, whether we like the results or not!

Who Cares?????? Trying to incite a riot????

Zimmerman and Travon are only half the problem the real racism the systematic racism comes in with Sanfords handling of this, their disregard for the life of Travon, treating him with less respect then a dog. Listing him as a John Doe and not notifying his parent who lived 70' away from where he was killed, not treating this shooting as a crime at all. Limiting the investigation to taking the shooters word! The outrage that is sparking a civil rights movement (not to be confused with a"riot") from this is more to do with the fact that a young unarmed american teenager can be killed on american soil like a mosquito. Racism is the breeding ground for home grown terrorism and that is why this is as important if not more inportant then 9/11. The fact that racist and uninformed glaze over the non responsivness of Sanford as business as usual necesitates equal and opposite reaction from the masses who clearly see NO JUSTICE equals NO PEACE equals an attack on ALL AMERICANS. So wear your hoody and try to get home safe. PEACE.

Love,

I'm pretty sure some of these folks were the ones dumping milkshakes on the heads of the civil rights workers sitting at the segregated soda counters.

It gives me even more appreciation for what those men and women did and took for our society.

Sighber - I think the majority of the people telling the media to shut up, really wish the story would just be reported unbiasedly. When you don't get the WHOLE story, then it isn't news. It's called marketing an agenda. Unfortunately, this story has been reported with extreme bias in favor of Mr. Martin. There have been countless articles written that have only supported the Martin family's version of events and completely excluded the the eye witness who supports Mr Zimmerman's account. That is not journalism. What they are doing is dangerous. Before all facts are on the table and because they choose to continue with the biased reporting, you have a celebrity like Spike Lee hopping on the "get Zimmerman" bandwagon and using Twitter to publish Zimmerman's home address so that the angry mobs can go take care of him. Unfortunately, Spike Lee tweeted the wrong address and he put a single mom with small children at risk. Do you think Mr Lee would have done that if this story was being reported unbiasedly?

I for one look forward to the grand jury investigation. That will ferret out fact from fiction. I currently sit on a Federal Grand Jury and I see first hand how the media reports information incorrectly on cases we hear evidence on. Don't believe all you here on TV or what you read in the newspapers.

Back East

@culhealth... pretty much what the witnesses said what happened... The gun never was shown until Martin assaulted Zimmerman... Police said that the evidence of both people's injuries, and what witnesses said back up Zimmermans story. This is why no arrest.

It's not a crime to follow anyone at a distance in this country unless you have a restraining order. Zimmerman didn't break any laws. He was walking back to his car when Martin jumped him. Last time I checked, you can't smack someone's head into the ground with intent to injur. That's a fellony assault. Deadly force is then allowed... did you miss something?

Yeah, I missed you presenting facts and not hearsay to make your point. Everything you presented, like so many other Zimmerman defenders, was either from Zimmerman himself or from witness testimony for which there is contradictory witness testimony. Even the lead investigator that was on the scene that night signed an affidavit that he didn't buy Zimmerman's story and thought he should be charged at minimum with manslaughter. He was there, you weren't.

You seem to be subject to the

" a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" syndrome.

SayWhat,

Considering there would have been no investigation at all without the media, I'm pretty sure they're doing their job. Are some sources biased, yes of course, but there are many reputable news outlets that are reporting FACTS.

I've noticed that some people, when the facts don't support what they want them too, claim some sort of liberal bias. Kind of like conspiracy theorists. Instead of seeing a situation as is, which may not support your beliefs, you choose to claim some sort of intrigue in order to protect those beliefs.

No, the people who have an issue with what's going on here, in terms of the media, are the people who feel threatened. The people who are afraid their denial and defense mechanisms, and secret bigotry may have light shown on them.

Softdude-

This is just tooooooo simple. Zimmerman did what the 911 operator repeatedly told him not to do. Zimmerman introduced a firearm into a situation that should never have occurred. For whatever reason, control of that firearm was in jeopardy. So, the possession of the firearm by an irresponsible citizen resulted in the death of another citizen. This was at least manslaughter due to Zimmerman;s irresponsibility. Depending on what actually transpired it might be murder in the first degree and a hate crime but it is in no way less than manslaughter and not arresting Zimmerman is an outrage. Zimmerman's possession of a weapon makes him responsible for it. The fact that his conduct left him in a position where he felt he had to use it does not amount to self defense because he is responsible for the gun being there and the danger it created.

Obviously you have only read about this case on MSNBC. You probably have not reard the case as the officers tell it and 911 backs up. First Zimmerman was not told by 911 NOT TO INTRODUCE A GUN you are making up thing to try and sway people into taking your position. 911 ONLY told Zimmerman to quit following Martin, as he said he did and was back at his car when Martin said you have a problem Zimmerman said no, Martin says you do now and broke Zimmerman's nose. This kid FB page had him holding an AK47 and throwing up gang signs hardly the nice little kid his parents would like you to believe. The kid was 17 in the pictures everyone has seen he is 14years old, show us a current picture. Martin was kicked out of school for having weed. As this is no big deal to me, it does show that he is not the innocent kid his parents want you to believe he is. Zimmerman has a broken nose, a black eye and cuts to the back of his head; only after that does he pull his gun and fire, you can hear him screaming on the 911 tape, also the only wittiness confirms Zimmerman's account as does his broken nose. You see if you just follow MSNBC you only get half facts. Just because you think Zimmerman had a right too shoot does not make you a racist. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

Bill1488, your post is not factual at all. First, Softdude didn't imply that 911 told Zimmerman not to bring a gun, only that they said "don't follow him," which they did and he did.

Second:

as he said he did and was back at his car when Martin said you have a problem...and broke Zimmerman's nose

is complete BS. If Zimmerman was back at his car, then why was the altercation and eventual body no where NEAR his car? THe body was found between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle in a backyard. This is down a side walkway, around a corner, and through at least 3 backyards from the nearest street (and where Zim's car would have been parked, unless he went off-roading). Look at the map.

This kid FB page had him holding an AK47 and throwing up gang signs

is pure BS. Link me a picture of him with the AK, and the one of "Trayvon" throwing up gang signs has been proven to be a fake from some other kid in Savannah, GA who is either named Trayvon Martin, and/or renamed his page that in solidarity. Make up more facts imo...

Zimmerman has a broken nose, a black eye, and cuts to the back of his head

then why didn't he go to the hospital that night. THe only first aid was administered by Sanford Fire Dept. at the scene (per the police report), people with broken noses go to the hospital generally.

Just because you think Zimmerman had a right too shoot does not make you a racist

This is the only factual thing in your post

Sarah 1.54

Let's see about your points:

1. He's a kid. Call 17 an adult you want, but our frontal lobes which control impulse don't finish developing until about 25.

I don't know what your point is here as the prisons are full of people with undeveloped frontal lobes. Get my point?

2. He's significantly smaller than Zimmerman.

Trayvon is listed at 6' 3" or 6' 4" depending on where your info comes from. Zimmerman is listed at 5' 9".

3. He didn't instigate any interaction with Zimmerman.

He most certainly did instigate the interaction. Whey Trayvon noticed Zimmerman observing him, he became annoyed and moved to confront Zimmerman. He then struck Zimmerman knocking him to the ground where he began pummeling him (eyewitnesses for this).

4. Zimmerman was told to cease following him and disregarded the 911 operator.

Police guidelines for such neighborhood watch participants are to follow and observe but from a distance, apparently this is what Zimmerman was doing. MSNBC would have you believe Zimmerman was directly behind Trayvon, this not the case.

5. Zimmerman confronted him without the authority to do so, after following him.

See the response to number 3.

6. The larger, stronger, person was armed.

See the response to number 2. I would add that Zimmerman was legally armed and his weapon was concealed according to the CWP permit requirements. This is why Trayvon chose to assault Zimerman. He didn't know Zimmerman was armed.

7. Zimmerman has made claims that he was assaulted so bad he had a right to shoot Trayvon, but no medical records for treatment of his nose or head have been released.

From what info is currently available about Zimmerman's injuries, he was observed by responding police to have a cut lip, bloody nose (some reports say broken) and a laceration in the back of his head consistent with hitting the sidewalk, in addition to numerous bruises consistent with being repeatedly struck by fists. According to the police report, Zimmerman declined medical treatment at the time but did go for treatment at a later time, possibly the next day.

And you have the audacity to admonish people for being racially biased? Give me a break.

Trayvon is listed at 6'3" or 6'4" depending on where your info comes from.

Actually, Trayvon is listed as 6'0" and 160 lbs. My info comes from the police report. You can look it up.

Whey Trayvon noticed Zimmerman observing him, he became annoyed and moved to confront Zimmerman... (eyewitnesses for this).

Is easily proven false. Trayvon, when he noticed Zimmerman observing him from his vehicle, RAN. It's on Zim's own 911 tape. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed down a side walkway, around a corner, and through at least 3 backyards before any confrontation ensued (again, in the police report. Look up where the body was found and then use a map to see how far from the street this is). Zimmerman's statement of "I checked a street sign and was jumped returning to my car" is pure BS and easily proven false simply due to where the body was located in relation to the street.

Also, not a single eyewitness observed, or claims to have observed, the very beginning of the altercation, so we don't know who actually started the physical altercation. ONE witness says he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, and there are conflicting witness statements on who was screaming for help.

All in all, it doesn't really matter who started the physical altercation. The fact that Zimmerman exited his vehicle and pursued Martin off the street (again, down a side walkway, through backyards, etc.) is more than enough to make him the aggressor and thereby cause him to lose his "stand your ground" protections. The only reason who swung at whom first matters is because it changes the charges from murder (if Zim swung first) to Manslaughter (if Martin swung first). Period.

Wet,

I don't know what your point is here as the prisons are full of people with undeveloped frontal lobes. Get my point?

Yes, and they are kids too. Kids are irrational and subject to over reacting.

Trayvon is listed at 6' 3" or 6' 4" depending on where your info comes from. Zimmerman is listed at 5' 9".

Here's a link to the report that lists Trayvon as 6' and 160 lb. That's tall, yes, but awfully skinny. Have you ever been in a physical altercation? According to the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman weighed in at somewhere over 200 lb. Let's be biased towards your side for a moment, and say he was directly at 200 lb. That's a 40 lb difference. That's more than the average difference between a man and a woman. Which leads me to point out that you didn't answer my question, would he have been justified in shooting me?

http://media.myfoxchicago.com/pdf/zimmerman-report.pdf

He most certainly did instigate the interaction. Whey Trayvon noticed Zimmerman observing him, he became annoyed and moved to confront Zimmerman. He then struck Zimmerman knocking him to the ground where he began pummeling him (eyewitnesses for this).

According to whom? Which eye witnesses? Sources, cites? What about all the witnesses that say the opposite? Why don't you take there word as law, just as you are taking those that back up Zimmerman?

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/five-shocking-facts-from-the-trayvon-martin-case

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10774247-trayvon-martins-final-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2jGpdnLtMg

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/16/the-cruel-fatethat-came-to-an-average-kid-trayvon-martin.html

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-call-zimmerman-slur-20120320_1_racial-slur-fatal-shooting-racial-epithet

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

Police guidelines for such neighborhood watch participants are to follow and observe but from a distance, apparently this is what Zimmerman was doing. MSNBC would have you believe Zimmerman was directly behind Trayvon, this not the case.

Sources, cites??? Why do we hear the 911 operator tell him, "We don't need you to do that" after Zimmerman informs him he's following Trayvon? How did Zimmerman, and why did Zimmerman get out of his car than? He didn't have the authority, and he wasn't following the neighborhood watch rules, they weren't even a registered neighborhood watch.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321,0,5554619.story

From what info is currently available about Zimmerman's injuries, he was observed by responding police to have a cut lip, bloody nose (some reports say broken) and a laceration in the back of his head consistent with hitting the sidewalk, in addition to numerous bruises consistent with being repeatedly struck by fists. According to the police report, Zimmerman declined medical treatment at the time but did go for treatment at a later time, possibly the next day.

First, let's see the medical records. Second, that doesn't answer my question. He was being beaten so bad he had the right to shoot an unarmed kid, but he didn't need immediate medical attention? Not even a little bit of shock???

And you have the audacity to admonish people for being racially biased? Give me a break.

You have the audacity to say this isn't racially motivated? It's cowardly to not own who you really are. If you have the balls to be a racist, have the balls to admitt to your racism.

DrowningGrover, nice pack of lies. That "kid" is 6'4" and a 170 lbs, not 6'0, 160, and Zimmerman is not 250lbs like the pathetic media has listed, he's 205. This "kid" attached Zimmerman from behind, two witnesses have statements saying that in addition that the "kid" hit Zimmerman from behind with a sucker punch. Zimmerman will walk, because he was defending himself, bank on it.

What's this crap about witnesses substantiating Zimm's evidently false claims? Not one of them said they saw Zimm walking away from anything. Neither did a single witness claim to have seen Tayvon sneak up and punch Zimm in the nose; nor did any of them see the kid banging Zimms head into the ground. No witness claimed to have seen Tayvon as the initiator. Not one of them claims to have seen how the conflict started. All these witnesses did was confirm that there was a fight and Tayvon was on top; that doesn't confirm Zimms story, it just as easily could have happened that an armed stalker who (as the evidence so far shows) idiotically saw Tayvon as an "As_hole" and a "Fu_king 'Coon or Goon'" who "always gets away", who then made up his mind beforehand that he was not going to let Tayvon get away, so hunted him down planning to create the situation under which he could justify shooting him, caught him and jumped Tayvon without identifying himself, and his head got busted when they hit the ground with the terrified kid fighting for his life, Zimmerman strategically screaming "help" (that's "if" Zimm was screaming) to cover his tracks while he purposefully, premediatatedly shot the kid as he planned all along. The evidence shows the man doesn't respect the police or the law, that he was violent and arrested for attacking the police and his girlfriend, deemed unfit to become a police officer for some reason (and I bet it was a good one), and for all those reasons and the fact that he outweighed the kid by about 100 pounds, and the kid being the one not having an arrest record period, especially not one of violence, and the kid seen as the one fleeing with Zimmerman chasing, and the kid's girlfriend's hearing of the conflict starting over the phone and utterly contridicting Zimms account of being attacked from behind, it is far more likely that Zimmerman attacked the kid to intentionally incite a reaction under which he figured (being a student of criminal justice) he could unnecessarily shoot to kill. The evidence indicates he hunted this kid with premeditation, using his knowledge of criminal justice to stage the murder in a way he could justify and get away with it.

JCB,

You call Drowing a liar, I'm assuming you think I am too since I agree with Drowning. If you look at my post 1.66, directly above yours, I have a link to the report that lists him as 6' and 160 lb. I also have numerous other links backing up the information Drowning has posted.

Where are yours backing up your accepted version?

Sarah-3043284,

Go watch The View, they already talked about everything that negates your post.

Including the part where they keep showing photos of Trayvon Martin as a child to gain Public Sympathy and not his actual size as a 17 year old Football Player (think about that as trained violence), ever been bused into someone else's Homegame and they lose, how fast can you run to avoid a deadly mob beat down. And to get more against Zimmerman for those that are paying attention photos of him looking like a Prison convict wearing a orange prison jumper.

And if you think that someone unarmed age 10 to 17 cannot kill someone, all I would have to say is KONY 2012 and the Children Soldiers of Africa.

Knowing from experience about Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency, Counter Insurgency Warfare) I know how Psychological Warfare (News Media) is used to gain Local, National, International Support for perceived Injustices, we then use these perceived Injustices to form riots, demonstrations, strikes, etc. to cause violent enemy Government reactions, this causes more injustices, eventually we have started a Civil War to overthrow that enemy Government, and we did not have to do anything violent ourselves. You always give the News Media pictures of little children NEVER their current Photos as Combatant young adults or adults. Afghanistan Combatant average age 10 and up, same with Sudan. Inside Al Qaeda, http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/inside-al-qaeda.html

And before you say irrelevant, my Second Career was Teaching mostly at Inner City Combat Zone Schools after Retirement and being continually Recalled to Active Duty ruined my Teaching Career. When I was teaching at Inner City Schools that was before metal detectors, searches and pat downs. So lets talk about Pot, Marijuana, in relation to when I was attached to US Federal Law Enforcement, and relevance as currently; ever since more of the Marijuana has been confiscated more of the Drug Dealers started to lace the marijuana with other things to give it more "kick" using smaller quantities available, things like Formaldehyde, arsenic, other stronger drugs, cocaine, chrystal meth, etc.. When I was attached to US Federal Law Enforcement the marijuana was laced with "Angel Dust", if you ever saw ten cops attempting to arrest someone on Angel Dust you would be laughing your arse off, one wimp tossing cops like they were nothing. I also used to teach women to defend themselves using unarmed Deadly Force if necessary including "snatching a firearm" from an attacker.

If you want to try, convict and lynch Zimmerman in the Court of Public Opinion, I want all the Proof, Evidence made Public, especially the Courts Ordering the Unsealing of any or all Juvenile Records for Martin, that the Law Enforcement cannot even admit they have until after the Court Order(s). As far as "irrelevant", not if you are saying this is a Homicide Case. Even by saying "Killer", "Murder", etc. anyone saying that has already tried, convicted, and lynched Zimmerman, just like the Salem Witch Trials.

When this first became Public, the First thing I wanted to know is Why was Martin suspended from School and many said "Irrelevant", like I said before, not if you are saying this is a Homicide Case. The other information, evidence, needed, detailed "as built" maps of the area, addresses of all witnesses (plotted on map), parents address (plotted on map), route taken by Martin (plotted on map), vehicle, location and route of Zimmerman (plotted on map), ANY Surveillance Videos from that area for months including from the store that Martin bought the Skittles and Ice Tea and School, All Forensic Evidence, Martin's Toxicology Reports, ME Reports, any Internal Affairs Records, weather reports and light readings (for entire area), who Martin got the drugs from and how Martin got the money for the drugs, recorded video interviews of everyone that knew Martin and Zimmerman (note: computer software to detect evasions), Law Enforcement Records of Gang Related Activities in the Area, One year of previous Law Enforcement Records, Records of anything (Law Enforcement, Financial Records, Medical, etc.) including Sealed Juvenile Records wherever Martin or Zimmerman lived at, Crime Reports for the Area, etc..

By doing all this, Court of Public Opinion, this becomes an Automatic Exoneration in a Court of Law on Technicalities, as Zimmerman can no longer get a "Fair and Just" Trial with an unbiased "Jury of His Peers". So by going Public, Martin's Parents f**ked up. This is also going to make it almost impossible for the Prosecutor, Law Enforcement to prove Zimmerman guilty of anything "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt", as known that any evidence after this becoming Public may be false, arses wanting their 15 minutes of fame submitting false testimony or evidence. Previously when I was Law Enforcement we knew that the suspect was guilty; but, due that false testimony, or evidence the whole case was thrown out and everything becoming "tainted" so the accused walked.

Sure go walk into a Financial Institution that was recently robbed wearing a hat, hoodie, etc. and see what happens. Already stated that numerous burgularies committed in that neighborhood, and don't say that burgularies are not or do not turn violent (Rape, Murder, etc.).

Most of you NEED to go to Basic Law School to get beaten into your heads to learn: False Arrest, Due Process of Law, Rules of Law, Conviction Requirements, Basic Rules of Evidence, False Imprisonment, Innocent until proven Guilty "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt", Detentions, Citizen's Arrest, Gated Community Rules and Charters, Neighborhood Watches, Firearms Ownership (US Supreme Court Ruling), etc..

add to post#1.70.

Everyone claiming that Zimmerman's height and weight. Ever seen an obese person chasing after a Football Player? Visualize that.

Oh, yes, Sarah-3043284,

If it was reported to Zimmerman by most of the Homeowners of the Gated Community in the area that their homes were burglarized by Black Teenagers as seen by their neighbors, does that mean that Zimmerman MUST Report to the Police that White Teenagers were burglarizing the Neighborhood.

That is your logic.

David,

Why you think your personal experiences are applicable to this situation is beyond me. All of that typing and all you did was presume things based on your own life, which has nothing to do with Trayvon. Attributional bias much?

Are you making the assertion that we don't have enough probable cause to arrest Zimmerman? Than what do you say about all the cases where there was even less evidence and arrests were made? If Zimmerman can't get a fair trial, that's because the police didn't do their job. Had they done it properly, they would have made the arrest before the public outcry. You're blaming the wrong people.

The slaying of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a Florida high school student who was shot and killed by George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, has captured national attention.

Petitions calling for justice for Martin have exploded, amid allegations calls for more scrutiny into how local police handled the investigation. George Zimmerman has yet to be charged in the case.

Below is a timeline of events:

Feb. 26: Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old Florida high school student, is found shot and killed, in Sanford, Fla., a community north of Orlando.

Several eyewitnesses report to police that they heard a scuffle, then a cry for help, and then a gunshot.

According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Martin is unresponsive and pronounced dead at the scene. He has no weapons on him, only a pack of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea.

Zimmerman tells police he killed Martin in self defense. Taking him at his word, police do not arrest him, nor administer a drug or alcohol test. They also did not run a background check.

March 9: Trayvon Martin’s family demands that police release the 911 tapes or make an arrest nearly one month after Martin was killed. Police declined to comment at the time, but told ABC News the tapes would be released the following week.

March 12: ABC News uncovers questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of Martin, including the alleged “correction” of at least one eyewitness’ account.

Sanford Police Chief Billy Lee said there is no evidence to dispute Zimmerman’s a.s.sertion that he shot Martin out of self-defense.

March 16: Police recordings made the night Zimmerman allegedly shot and killed Martin sent the boy’s mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, “He killed my son,” a family representative tells ABC News.

ABC News affiliate WFTV publishes excerpts from the 911 calls.

One of several petitions for Zimmerman’s arrest has garnered more than 250,000 signatures on a change site, and at one point signatures were pouring in at the rate of 10,000 an hour, according to the website.

March 18: Martin’s family asks Attorney General Eric Holder and the FBI to get involved in the investigation of their son’s death.

March 19: A 16-year-old girl tells Benjamin Crump, the Martin family’s attorney, about the last moments of Martin’s life, ABC News is there exclusively. Martin was on the phone with her when George Zimmerman began following him. She recounted that she told Martin to run, then she heard some pushing, then the line went dead.

The U.S. Justice Department announces it has launched an investigation into Martin’s slaying.

ABC News also learns that Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, which states, “it should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.”

The state attorney in Seminole County, Fla., announces that a grand jury will review the evidence of the case on April 10.

March 20: Sanford police department admits to ABC News that investigators missed a remark by the shooter as he spoke to police dispatchers moments before the killing.

March 21:A single online petition calling for Travyvon’s killer’s arrest has nearly 900,000 signatures and is now the fastest growing petition in internet history, according to Change Tweets from celebrities, such as Justin Bieber and Spike Lee, helped fuel wide interest in the case.

The public relations person for Benjamin Crump, the attorney representing the Martin family, tells ABC News they received 418 media calls in one day.

That's what The View has to say about it, and why you thought one talk show could discredit FACTS is beyond me.

All that info you need has been released, including maps, statements, records, yada, yada, yada... Go read the links, and you might want to check out Drowning Grover's links as well.

And you also didn't answer any of my questions...

Here's a link to the report that lists Trayvon as 6' and 160 lb. That's tall, yes, but awfully skinny. Have you ever been in a physical altercation? According to the Orlando Sentinel, Zimmerman weighed in at somewhere over 200 lb. Let's be biased towards your side for a moment, and say he was directly at 200 lb. That's a 40 lb difference. That's more than the average difference between a man and a woman. Which leads me to point out that you didn't answer my question, would he have been justified in shooting me?

http://media.myfoxchicago.com/pdf/zimmerman-report.pdf

Oh, and David,

If it was reported to Zimmerman by most of the Homeowners of the Gated Community in the area that their homes were burglarized by Black Teenagers as seen by their neighbors, does that mean that Zimmerman MUST Report to the Police that White Teenagers were burglarizing the Neighborhood.

He called and reported it and was told to NOT follow him by the 911 operator. He also wasn't registered as an official community watch, and oh yes, they've already said he was in violation of their rules.

Here, I'll repost it all for you. Just please, no more personal resumees that was pretty boring to read.

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/five-shocking-facts-from-the-trayvon-martin-case

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10774247-trayvon-martins-final-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2jGpdnLtMg

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/16/the-cruel-fatethat-came-to-an-average-kid-trayvon-martin.html

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-call-zimmerman-slur-20120320_1_racial-slur-fatal-shooting-racial-epithet

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321,0,5554619.story

The media finds out Zimmerman has had problems with the police ( indications of a violent nature ) and the right wingers claim the media is trying to stir up riots? Next thing , they'll be saying the lad caused his own death by being there among white people. Gwad!, talk about inverse reasoning.

DrowningGrover, nice pack of lies. That "kid" is 6'4" and a 170 lbs, not 6'0, 160, and Zimmerman is not 250lbs like the pathetic media has listed, he's 205.

hey, don't call me a liar. Take it up with the police report. THEY have Martin as 6'0", 160lbs.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

This "kid" attached Zimmerman from behind, two witnesses have statements saying that in addition that the "kid" hit Zimmerman from behind with a sucker punch. Zimmerman will walk, because he was defending himself, bank on it.

No witnesses have stated that. If you have a link, i'll entertain it. ONE witness did say he saw the two men wrestling, and Martin was on top at the time, but that is a far cry from what you're suggesting.

Zimmerman has no grounds to claim self-defense because he pursued Martin down a walkway, around a corner, and through at least 3 backyards. This is easily verifiable by simply reading the police report (linked above, the body was between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View Circle) and then sipmly looking at a map. Zimmerman was at a minimum a couple hundred feet from his truck and the nearest street at the time of the altercation. This is provable FACT.

Now, since you called me a liar, your links??

Sarah,

Please take a deep breath, and don't defend either.

Too many have died without a comment, and too many have killed without being caught.

It is youth here 17 & 28 to blame, with no one to know or as it looks with certainty by law who is guilty so far.

Life is too easy and free without respect for each other. Parents don't want to be too hard along with teachers on the children. No fear do our children have or fear of repercussions. It is our fault that we continue to see this happen.

You fuel the fire every time a word comes from your posts.

I assume you are a young closed minded easly swayed follower who needs to participate.

By all means please assert your right that I have helped in providing you to continue, or let the justice system work.

But don't stop questioning why, we need to see the "why" first.

Loving,

First, don't patronize me.

Second, the fire needs to be fueled. That "why" would never be answered if not for the national attention this is now receiving. That justice system you want to work, WASN'T working. I'll tell you this...

I'm assuming you're old and stuck in your ways. Open your eyes, read the links, study the law, and than ask yourself why it's taken so long to even convene a grand jury.

I'm glad I'm fueling the fire, that's how sh** gets fixed.

Sarah,

Convene a Grand Jury? - why?

Not stuck, just have not been presented a better way.

You exhibit a lot of anger that is wasted on one so old and stuck in my ways. I stand here with eyes wide open but yet have nothing concrete to go on.

I do see you are glad to fuel, but no solution to the "Justice System"?

I do see you have a cause, but is it a productive one?

You incite anger in people who might hurt others with help from your comments.

My last question:

Would you be willing to take on that responsibility?

Loving,

First, I'm not sure why you're writing in "Yoda" but it makes it hard to understand you. And I highly doubt you're anyone's "guru". Second, nothing concrete, really??? Once again, here are some facts about what happened, that are concrete...

The slaying of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a Florida high school student who was shot and killed by George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, has captured national attention.

Petitions calling for justice for Martin have exploded, amid allegations calls for more scrutiny into how local police handled the investigation. George Zimmerman has yet to be charged in the case.

Below is a timeline of events:

Feb. 26: Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old Florida high school student, is found shot and killed, in Sanford, Fla., a community north of Orlando.

Several eyewitnesses report to police that they heard a scuffle, then a cry for help, and then a gunshot.

According to the Sanford police report, George Zimmerman, 28, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, is found armed with a handgun, standing over Martin. He has a bloody nose and a wound in the back of his head.

Martin is unresponsive and pronounced dead at the scene. He has no weapons on him, only a pack of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea.

Zimmerman tells police he killed Martin in self defense. Taking him at his word, police do not arrest him, nor administer a drug or alcohol test. They also did not run a background check.

March 9: Trayvon Martin’s family demands that police release the 911 tapes or make an arrest nearly one month after Martin was killed. Police declined to comment at the time, but told ABC News the tapes would be released the following week.

March 12: ABC News uncovers questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of Martin, including the alleged “correction” of at least one eyewitness’ account.

Sanford Police Chief Billy Lee said there is no evidence to dispute Zimmerman’s a.s.sertion that he shot Martin out of self-defense.

March 16: Police recordings made the night Zimmerman allegedly shot and killed Martin sent the boy’s mother screaming from the room and prompted his father to declare, “He killed my son,” a family representative tells ABC News.

ABC News affiliate WFTV publishes excerpts from the 911 calls.

One of several petitions for Zimmerman’s arrest has garnered more than 250,000 signatures on a change site, and at one point signatures were pouring in at the rate of 10,000 an hour, according to the website.

March 18: Martin’s family asks Attorney General Eric Holder and the FBI to get involved in the investigation of their son’s death.

March 19: A 16-year-old girl tells Benjamin Crump, the Martin family’s attorney, about the last moments of Martin’s life, ABC News is there exclusively. Martin was on the phone with her when George Zimmerman began following him. She recounted that she told Martin to run, then she heard some pushing, then the line went dead.

The U.S. Justice Department announces it has launched an investigation into Martin’s slaying.

ABC News also learns that Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, which states, “it should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles.”

The state attorney in Seminole County, Fla., announces that a grand jury will review the evidence of the case on April 10.

March 20: Sanford police department admits to ABC News that investigators missed a remark by the shooter as he spoke to police dispatchers moments before the killing.

March 21:A single online petition calling for Travyvon’s killer’s arrest has nearly 900,000 signatures and is now the fastest growing petition in internet history, according to Change Tweets from celebrities, such as Justin Bieber and Spike Lee, helped fuel wide interest in the case.

The public relations person for Benjamin Crump, the attorney representing the Martin family, tells ABC News they received 418 media calls in one day.

Here are some more...

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/five-shocking-facts-from-the-trayvon-martin-case

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10774247-trayvon-martins-final-phone-call-he-said-this-man-was-watching-him

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-death-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts/story?id=15959017#.T2jGpdnLtMg

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/03/16/the-cruel-fatethat-came-to-an-average-kid-trayvon-martin.html

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-call-zimmerman-slur-20120320_1_racial-slur-fatal-shooting-racial-epithet

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321,0,5554619.story

I don't take responisbility for other people's actions or emotions and I don't ask them to take responsibility for mine. Another concrete fact... Our country has a very long history, of minorities having to fight very hard for basic justice and protection under the law.

YOU may be comfortable sitting passively in the face of injustice and with 17 year old, unarmed boys, being shot to death, but I don't play that game. Shame on anyone who ISN'T pissed off about this.

Sarah - Where is the injustice? You are basing your view entirely on biased news accounts and ASSuming the police and DA aren't performing a competent investigation! Are you seriously referencing BET.com for your basis of "facts"? Take a deep breath and let the grand jury decide based on real facts and witness testimony. Your arguments are based entirely on assumption, speculation and second hand accounts of what transpired. It amazes me that you completely ignore the FACT that Trayvon had this guy pinned to the ground, broke his nose and bashed his head against the concrete until it bled and the only wound Trayvon had was the bullet hole in his chest...... Enough of the poor, unarmed child crap. There is much more to this story. Let the officials release the "facts" of the case.

Oh yeah.... Save your spew about the medical records... It's in the police report that Zimmerman was treated at the scene by paramedics.

Sarah,

You can hide behind your words if you want and respond with media quotes as your facts.

You can also belittle me with your comments, all part of the Bill of Rights.

But to imply because of what you say, it's not your fault... please explain.

All I'm saying is to redirect your anger, stop grouping based on race - party - etc.

Address the action, not the assumed ideology.

Sarah - Don't bother arguing with these people. Their minds can't be changed. They've victims of poor education and cannot properly evaluate information for themselves. It's sad, really.

Lovinglife,

I hate to be rude, but your posts are ridicule themselves.

Lost,

I know, right? By their very definition, bigots can't be swayed.

The NY Times identified Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic." A white Hispanic??????????? WTF????

Sigh...In the first place, this is police talk. A Hispanic man broke into my apartment and tried to rape me. When I described him as Hispanic, the cop immediately asked, "White Hispanic or black Hispanic?" There is no race called "Hispanic". It refers to a culure. At least some of their ancestors came from Spain, which is a country in southern Europe mainly populated by "white" people, however swarthy some of them may be. Zimmerman apparently had a German/Jewish father and a Peruvian mother, which makes him white, period, unless his mother was pure Indian, which seems unlikely since most people there are of mixed blood.

softdude your wrong, he had a ccw permit, which means he can carry anytime he wants with the exception of state and fed buildings

Right, because the people who make the laws don't care if YOU get shot as long as THEY are safe at work.

Zimmerman deliberately contaminates jacket evidence in police garage. Look at video view tape showing from front of sqaud car to back. Cop puts something in trunk, then walks away. For a split second Zimmerman takes one step back, leans back against wall, moves both feet forward putting full weight on his back on the wall. Cop says to come, Zimmerman lunges forward leaving scuff on back of jacket so it looks like he was laying on sidewalk on his back as he later claimed. Marks on jacket will look like sidewalk however forensics will show the garage wall was painted white. Zimmerman may have scraped his head against wall also!

NBC is a horrible news organization. They are so lopsided in this case in favor of Martin it isn't even funny. They alter the 911 call to make Zimmerman look bad. Sad. That is why I do not watch NBC on TV. I probably shouldn't even watch this website.

And, the blacks want sooooo much for Zimmerman to be white. Well folks, he isn't white. He is "hispanic". If you want to say Obama is black, (or the stupid ID of "African-American) when he is half white, half black, then Zimmerman, who is half hispanic, is hispanic. Sorry.

Also, ALL news organizations need to STOP USING THE PICTURE OF TRAYVON WHEN HE WAS 10 OR 12 YEARS OLD!! He was not a 12 year old kid. He was 17, a young man. 6'3" and seems to have not been such a nice guy after all. Use a current picture of him, like the one with a mustache, looking down his nose at someone. He looks much older there. It seems to me that after Zimmerman approached him, Trayvon, towering over Zimmerman, thought he could take him, and decked him, then jumped on top of him and beat Zimmerman's head on the ground repeatedly like any good thug would do. Now, if you were Zimmerman, what would you think? I would think, "this guy is going to kill me!" Zimmerman is somehow able to pull his gun and kill Trayvon in self defense. He went into survival mode. For me, however, the jury is still out. Let the witnesses fully come out in this case before rushing to judgement.

alan, YOU are the lopsided critter, here!

Zimmerman is a LIAR, his case is falling apart before our very eyes!

He will be arrested soon, and cop a plea!

Sarah, you may be getting worked up over this without looking at all the information. Do you really think that most US citizens want anyone, any race, any size, etc. to be shot? Don't you think that this matter was reviewed closely and that there was not enough evidence to arrest and charge Zimmerman? I see the media continue to fuel the fire that may very well lead to more violence and death. What will you and all the rest have to say if the Grand Jury decides not to take Zimmerman to trial? If tried and found not guilty, will you continue your "trash" when Zimmerman walks out of the court a freeman? What will happen if he now is charged and found guilty? A Hispanic charged and convicted due to black pressure from the likes of you and JJ, AS? Bottom line is this, our country is so torn apart I fear for every race. Yes, this country is in trouble and this type black vs white, Hispanic vs black, etc. trash is not going to help heal our country. Where is our president as our country starts to boil. Sorry, 13th tee or shooting hoops.

DSmith,

NO, the evidence wasn't "reviewed closely", that is the problem!

Throwing in a snarky comment about the president, just proves you are a racist.

DSmith, the lead investigator wanted to arrest Zimmerman. The DA refused to allow it. Zimmerman's dad is an influential judge. You put the pieces together.

Jo-An-4354969, The facts are the facts. Obama plays more golf and does less work than any president in my lifetime. If I hate a white president, does that make me a racist. Obama's color, his background, his education, have nothing to due with my extreme dislike/hate of this president. He is a lying, dishonest individual that has convinced people like you that big government / socialist practices will improve our country. I am sure you either live in government assisted housing or have your college paid by working Americans. I am sorry JoAn, there goes my racist mouth again.....lol

At least they're using facts against George Zimmerman instead of trying to smear Trayvon with innuendo.

At least they are smearing equally. I mean a guy who gets a speeding ticket, which is dismissed because the officer was too hungover to show up, should have this info revealed to the world. I say again, if a guy sucker punched me because I asked what he was doing in my neighborhood and then proceeded to bash my head into the concrete repeatedly, I believe I would pull out my gun and shoot him in the chest.

otm,

This true. They state facts about Zimmerman, but yet try cast a negative image about Martin. While Martin was no angel, I don't feel that skipping class, smoking weed, and dressing like so called "gangsta" is out of line. Sounds like a typical teen to me. Lots of kids emulate the dress and fashion of rappers. It doesn't make them real gangsters.

Possession of women's jewelry - no proof of where they came or who they actually even belonged too. If there was a clear cut crime, then why didn't the school report it?

I don't think either one of these guys are the bad guy? I just think some things could have been done differently. Could have Martin behaved differently? Yes, but he is dead now and there is nothing we can do for him. Zimmerman is still alive and definitely needs to be held accountable to some level, at least negligence.

The 911 tapes show Trayvon calling for help, a gunshot rings out and, no more cries. He lived in the area, Zimmerman had a history of calling the cops on black people. This guy was just looking to shoot somebody.

Trayvon was wearing a hoodie...yes, it was raining that day. Zimmerman was not supposed to have a gun if he was neighborhood watch. Zimmerman was not supposed to follow anybody. Zimmerman was not the victim, Trayvon is. He was a minute and a half from getting home. A minute and a half away from living. He was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time and told her that he was being followed, but many commenting on here ignore these FACTS and try to blame the media. The media had nothing to do with the shooting, and people who don't have a case have to blame the media because that is all their intelligence allows them to do, because they aren't smart enough to see the truth. This happens in politics and cases like the Trayvon Martin case.

sonofavet::: You were there and you know just what happened? Funny, no one else knows for sure what happened.

The only person left standing was the whale and people have gotten only one side of the story. There are THREE sides to every story-- your side, his side and to he11 with it.

And where the he11 did you get the information that the officer was too drunk to show up for the court hearing? Is that what YOU do? It said that the officer didn't show up-- it didn't say why he didn't.

You assume too much. And I'm NOT the ass.

So Zimmerman had grass stains on the back of his shirt and it was wet-- what does that prove. He rolled in the grass. He had a broken nose? He doesn't go to the doctor until the next day-- but there is no doctor's report. He probably was stoned and ran into the door during the night. He sounds like that type person.

A small fish wouldn't attack a whale.

It is these whacky celebrities who people idolize that get involved and money chasers like Al Sharpton that jump on the band wagon and the media gives them coverage. Let justice rule in this. Even Obama took sides before all the facts were out. Any loss of life is tragic but was it justified ? The media will inflame it into riots so they can cover those.

where were all these people at and the news outlets when five black men almost beat to death a 16 year old high school student while jogging in the afternoon in columbia S. C. OH wait he was white i guess there was no story the news outlets are the racist

Zimmerman confronting Trayvon(probably hostile intent) and asking "what are you doing in MY neighborhood!", is the same type of cr*p a thug or gangster would do.

Bringing a gun to confront someone who he DID NOT see break any laws(outside his own house or property), would have landed most of us in jail(even if we didn't shoot someone).

It's called brandishing a weapon(and against a minor to boot).

But keep on trying to defend(unsuccessfully) Zimmerman.

He had no right to confront anyone with a firearm, who wasn't trying to harm he or his family in the first place.

So what if Trayvon socked him a few times. It sounds like Zimmerman deserved it. He should have stayed in his car and let the police deal with any "threat".

susie the one thing you forgot to mention was the eye witness who saw trayvon slamming his head into the ground, and it was george zimmerman screaming for help, the witness stated that the night of the shooting, and he didnt go that night cause he was cuffed and taken to the station and questioned, he went the next day which i believe is his right to do, the report stated he had 2 lacerations on the back of his head and what appeared to be a broken nose, grass stains on the back of his clothes, the gun shot was from close range, and trayvon was not a small fish, he is 6'3" zimmerman is 6 inches shorter. His girlfriend told him to run and he said NO I AINT RUNNIN FROM NOBODY, it was in her sworn affidavit. YOU WERE NOT THERE< YOUR STORY DONT MATTER< THE EYEWITNESS DOES

we need the lord.this is a sick society.

Frankly who cares if Zimmerman or Martin had shady pasts? There's really only two things that matters: "At what point during the conflict did Zimmerman fire his pistol? Who really started the altercation?"

That is going to be the deciding factor between manslaughter, murder or innocence. Not some bull@!$%# about smoking weed or fighting with police.

flyerznut

susie the one thing you forgot to mention was the eye witness who saw trayvon slamming his head into the ground, and it was george zimmerman screaming for help,

And another witness who the police refused to interview even though she repeated called them, gave a completely different account. But you seem convinced that Zimmerman's account is the true one no matter what. All that tells us is where you are coming from persoanlly, not what the truth is.

How did this Murder "Take on a Life of it's Own"?

Why does Race always come into place in white upon black murders---Yes, I am very sad that Trayvon Martin Died. Very sad.

I'm tired of hearing about Racism as an excuse for Murder---Thousands get murdered in this country (all races), and 99 per cent of the time, the focus is not on the color of the skin. Al Sharpton/Rev. Jesse Jackson seem to show Americans that nothing has changed in the world of being African American. We have a first Black President. Those 2 want to keep the Culture down, so they can keep the madness brewing 24/7 for how many more years?

I hope Zimmerman gets his due; that we find out the exact details of this needless murder. My sympathies to the Martin Family---Al Sharpton/Rev.Jesse Jackson are using them as pawns to all Americans.

The State of Florida seems to have a problem with their Investigations/ Justice for the victims of all the people who have been kidnapped, raped, and murdered there--especially the Pedophiles who kill little girls and boys (John Walsh's son, as well). Now Martin.

Why does it always happen in Florida--have had my experience with their police, and the ones I met, seemed very uninterested re: my problem. Does the Hot Sun make them dazed? What's the matter with them?

Talk about getting America to bleed their hearts for something no one has a the facts on. Everyone has made mistakes maybe not big ones like Mr. idiot Zimmerman but lets retrace your facts he supposedly assaulted a police in 2005 (which means he probably =drunk as it puts him around 21 to 22 years old was at a bar and probably stepped on the cops foot while being pulled out of a bar) If indeed he assaulted a police officer i believe that makes it a felony and would take his right to own a fire arm. So I doupt he has that charge, he has domestic violence but was not convicted so that also has no relevance to this case either. I mean the reality is the media has turned this Idiot into the guilty one by using his past but they want to say that the kids suspension for a baggy of marijuana and his rant about punching a Bus driver on Facebook does not have any relevance to the case either. You want to be fare SHUT "F" UP and let the justice department try and sort it out. I know they can screw it up also but hey it's Florida everyone there are stupid enough to let a mother who kills her baby get a away with murder (C. Anthony) so why worry about a case where to Idiots met and could not control there tempers??? by the way nice picture the parents provided to the media of Mr. Martin what is he 12 in that picture? Trying to get people to feel sorry for you son? Your the one who sent him to spend a week with his father and step mother i wonder why? probably couldn't handle that 6'.3" teenager with a taste for weed....

Gee if thats a picture of Zimmerman then whats with this black vs white crap? Zimmerman does not look white at all. Nice try playing the race card folks. But you failed.

Acegets,

Your the one who sent him to spend a week with his father and step mother i wonder why? probably couldn't handle that 6'.3" teenager with a taste for weed...

Well you figure wrong. The parents had shared custody of the boy and your taste for weed comment is complete conjecture on your part, demonstrating your more about your mindset than anything else.

Like i said you believe what you read, i believe what i know keep sipping that cool aid all you will be witnessing is a Riot on your hands because at the end the result won't be what you will be happy with....

wow msnbc you've done it again, he was even stopped for speeding?!? thats some groundbreaking news

...information brought to you by the same people (msnbc) complaining and arguing that Martin's records shouldnt be released because they're not relevant in this case.

"Gee if thats a picture of Zimmerman then whats with this black vs white crap? Zimmerman does not look white at all. Nice try playing the race card folks. But you failed."

This is the most stupid comment ever..... He is a White-Hispanic..... if you dont know what that is I suggest you research it. Its as stupid as saying "Hes not white... he is Irish!!!!" Majority of Hispanics are White. Its just that peoples own predjudices dont want to believe that...

I happen to be a liberal - so shoot me - but I think that Jon Stewart has it right.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-march-26-2012-shaquille-o-neal

Oh, by the way this will not only make you ROTFL but may help put some of this into perspective.

Two words: Tawanna Brawley.

Seems Al Sharpton jumped on this situation way too fast, just as before. There is an African American friend SUPPORTING ZImmerman's claim that he was jumped, attacked and seriously injured by the dead teen. And Zimmerman is Hispanic - so the race-card-hate-speech from Sharpton is totally out of bounds.

And it is a tragedy that anyone was killed in this incident. Make no mistake about that.

What this entire country needs is to CALM DOWN. All the centrally calculated divide and conquer to faciltate the dismantling of America in broad daylight is really getting out of hand.

How about seeing your fellow American as just a fellow American - and stop this victim group divide and conquer? How many people must die before Americans calm down and try to return to some semblance of civility and sanity?

more2bits-4021678

"So MSNBC joins the media circus to smear one side or the other."

If it's true, it isn't a smear.

If it's a lie, it's a smear.

One of the pervasive problems on the Internet is indiviuals who fail to concern themselves with truth.

"There is an African American friend SUPPORTING ZImmerman's claim that he was jumped, attacked and 1. seriously injured by the dead teen. "

1. The friend was not present at the shooting, so he is SPECULATING in DEFENSE of his ALLEGED friend.

2. "Hispanic" is not a race.

. If a person is a racist, and attacks others on that basis, his victim is not "playing the victim"

4..Drop the wingnut blamings of the victim and you'll begin to approach dealing objectively with others, and not contribute to the divisiveness about which you complain.

5. Turn off the FOX cesspool: it is poisoning your thinking and speech.

6. Research Rupert "I Illegally Hack the Private Voicemail of Murdered Children" Murdoch's idea of "journalism" and "news". He's in the business of blackmail and sleaze; and you are believing the swill is true, and the superior moral measure of those who don't fall for the FOX propraganda against reason itself.

George Zimmerman might look Spanish, but the last name Zimmerman is either Jewish or German. Unless he was adopted, then, I say "Jewish". About his innocence, that is Bull s#t. He used that GUN and that makes him responsible for what he did. I heard the taped conversation about "George telling the police officer about "Treyvon" The police officer said do not FOLLOW HIM. But he did anyway, now he is a murderer. It does not justify what he did. George needed to look like he was attacked by Treyvon and he could have hit his head on the ground and roll on the grass. Self-defence is when the adversary has some kind of weapon and you defended yourself. But if someone hit you, you can hit them back or run. What did George do?, he fired his weapon. George is a coward and an ASS.

So tell me this then. What are people that live in mexico, where born there and born to mexican parents? Are they white? Or do you differenitate them by the shade of brown they are?? I seriously want to know. If there is anyone who is from Mexico, or central or south American please tell us all here what we should be calling you. I just don't get how everybody who is not black is white. So are chinese or japanese people just shades of white then?? If we decide by anybody who isn't black is white than what is the president then who is both? Is he black becasue he looks black or is he white but the drakest shade of brown. This is seriously confusing!!ol.

..........And in America, we grant GUN Permits to criminals like this fat doofuss.....

it seems its quite clear that the riot act of these people isn't at all about Tryvons death its about who has the biggest gang and whos side Obama is on.A murder should'nt be about what color a person is at all.So hey knock off the crap if you think or Martin's parents think they are the only ones who have lost a son by being murderd they are very wrong.Why devote so much time useing hate and mobbs to heal the pain it only shows weakness in your faith and the same to REV whats his name he looks incredablely evil to me all the hate and time you spend trying to convence the public to give you justice by this behavor is just pissing people off.I two lost a son who was murder very violenly and I begged the lord every day no to let me hate I went in silent morning how can you expect people not to think this is about the camera,lights action. I have been praying every day for your son to rest in Gods peace and to give Tryvon justice.And I know he will.Amen.Follow your own hearts not bad leaders.

To roger ramjet44060

Even if Treyvon had broken George's nose, it still does not justify the shooting. George is a chicken s$it and you are a "vermin". Crawl back in your hole and don't come out.

OK, for the e billionth time: The "police" never told Zimmerman no to folow. A dispatcher said "you don't have to follow". At best that is a suggestion, and not from a cop. So stop saying he was "ordered" or "told" not to follow, it's not true.

It turns out now that Trayvon was bigger and faster than Zimmerman and attacked Zimmerman. That is why Zimmerman had facial and head injuries and Trayvon did not. And that is what WITNESSES said. OK, deal with it. That is the purpose of guns, to shoot bigger stronger guys who are beating you to a pulp.

@onepotato: We do not know yet what injuries Trayvon had because the autopsy report has not yet been released.

How legal is that bounty the black Panthers but on his head? The dead or alive one? No news on that?

I guess they get away with it because the wanted poster states wanted for citizens arrest, not dead or alive. But on what charge does anyone have to detain him for "citizens arrest"?

The police have not charged him with a crime, he has no warrants out for him. Yet it's ok for the black panthers to send out 5,000 "deputies" to look for him and "arrest" him. Doesn't take a rocket sceintist to figure out what their end game is.

The black panther leader(s) who put out the "reward" need to be arrested for conspiracy to commit serious bodiy injury or death in my opinion.

The President should be denouncing this action from the White House steps, and demanding that the "reward" be withdrawn an call out to the black panthers and all citizens to REFRAIN from violent action now. At least that is what I think we should expect from the man we hired to run this nation!!!!

Rockyroad - and we have not heard Barry, Al, or Jesse tell the New Black Panthers this is not how justice is served in this country either.

The media is building a case against Zimmerman this time and it is unfair. I am still waiting for an up to date picture of the victim. The media is clearly not being objective news reporters and it is making themselves look bad.

LOL, have they finished building their case against Trayvon?? Was that ALSO unfair?

The picture in the hoody was 2 months before he was murdered!

Finally we have an answer to why Zimmerman has a 'mug shot', and why it has been shown hundreds of times on TV and attached to dozens of news stories. I thought it odd that no reporter had even mentioned that the man has at the very least been arrested before (obvious from the arrest mug shot), and quite possibly had a police record worth looking into (while everyone was furiously digging into the background of the victim!) What's up with that?

Michael Vick, a black football player, landed in jail for fighting dogs.

George Zimmerman, a white, self-appointed neighbourhood watchman, wasn't even arrested for killing a black teen. Obviously, a dog has more rights in this country than a black teen.

Why does the media only show photos of Travon when he was 12 instead of 17 ? How is a latino white ? If someone is half black and half white are they considered white black or black white? This racial b.s. is stupid. Now the punk a@%$# black panthers have a million dollar bounty on zimmerman. Is this legal ? They print up shirts saying p.a.k. PU@#Y ASS KRACKER. White people weren't involved. If any idiot tries to jump me during a race attack i will break their arms and legs and strangle them with their own intestines.

@Butch,

You said skipping school is not a crime. Smoking weed last time I checked was a crime. Vandalism is also a crime. Why he had all the jewelry I have no idea, and why they dropped it after he said it belonged to a friend, is beyond me, but this kid was a little more than stealing people's lunches. Zimmerman was no angel, but I laughed when the parents were crying that people are attempting to smear their kid's name. Zimmerman was tagged a racist from the get-go without any facts. With this info I would say maybe it was just anger motivated, not race motivated. Some would say big deal, but you can see how public outcry can affect a trial (OJ). After the LA riots, there was no way a guilty verdict was coming down.

@flyerznut

If there is a witness(es) that saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk, repeatedly - and frankly, I do not believe that "story" - but if - say if - Zimmerman got his head slammed REPEATEDLY - why didn't he need hospital attention? Head slammed, repeatedly, - doesn't that sound serious?

Yet, no medical treatment - no medical records - no pictures - no pictures of the bloody clothes - no witnesses until thousands of people have demonstrated all over the country demanding Zimmerman's arrest - now - out of nowhere there are witnesses that saw Zimmerman getting his head slammed, repeatedly - Please! Just Please! Not buying it. It's simply unbelievable.

It's incredulous to me that anyone else could believe that tall tale - witnesses my eye!

There is a dead 17 year old and a man who ADMITTED shooting him. The shooter was told by police NOT to follow the other person. Zimmerman claims to have thought the young man looked suspicious.

Now flip it around to the young man's view, where you have some stranger stalking you around at night... are you going to think "Oh, he must be with a neighborhood watch" or are you going to think "What, is he some kind of pervert who's stalking me"???

We only have Zimmerman's word for what happened, with him claiming to call out for help and Treyvon's parents saying that is their son calling out for help.

I would like to know why the police had drug and alcohol testing done on the dead guy but didn't do any on the living man.....

Even the detective said he didn't believe Zimmerman's account, but was told there was not enough evidence to support any charges....funny, I would think a DEAD BODY and an ADMISSION of shooting him would be enough to warrant an arrest.

Zimmerman should face a trial in a court of law, but then considering it's Florida and he killed a minor; he will more than likely be found NOT guilty.

One other thing a neighborhood watch should NEVER be armed with a gun, unless he/she is a police officer.

sonofavetvetfatherofvets

if a guy sucker punched me because I asked what he was doing in my neighborhood and then proceeded to bash my head into the concrete repeatedly, I believe I would pull out my gun and shoot him in the chest.

Really son, really!, really!!! are you really that much of a coward that you cant win a fist fight that you have to bring a weapon into it. And I call you a coward because you cant take it like a man. Which is kind of obvious in this case with Zimmerman. He probably thought the same thing " oh, Im older than this kid. Oh, I weigh 100 Ibs more than this kid, I can take him" Well Zimmerman did and lost that fist fight to a KID! a TENNAGER!

Its easy to go into a fist fight with someone else? Yeah, it is! But its even harder to win that fist fight. I got in fist fights when I was a teenager, I took on guys that were alot bigger and taller than me and I still won. The irony is: I am only 5' 6" and weighed 150 Ibs at the time. Because when I got into a fistfight with someone, I have the one quality that everyone that I fought lacked. "hate".

But in todays world no one settles anything anymore with their fists. Lose a fist fight, pull a weapon out!!! THATS A COWARDS WAY OUT!

Coward? Riiiiight. Like defending yourself before your brains are bashed out against a concrete sidewalk is cowardly? In what universe do you live?

Cowardly is laying there and taking it.

If you judge who's a coward by whether they are willing to engage in a fist fight, win it, lose it, or whatever I question your mental stability.

You have no obligation to let someone beat on you if you fear for your life, high school social norms be damned.

Grow up.

If you try to severely beat someone you take your life in your own hands.

That being said...I'm not sure that's what happened in this case, I'm still questioning who started the physical altercation; the teen or the man who we already established called the cops for someone walking in the rain w/ a hoodie up, and then pursued the kid after beingtold not too.

Zimmerman put himself in a risky situation when he decided to follow Martin.

Having said that, I know what it's like to feel the frustration of living in a "diverse" community, and having to put up with all kinds of ghetto crap from these animals.

I've been startled by punks in my (walled) backyard in the middle of the night. I've had graffiti painted on my vehicle in my own driveway. I've seen them standing around in the street in front of my house (oh, that's not suspicious in the least, right?). Cars get broken into. They walk down the street...IN the street, not on the sidewalk. The police can't do much unless they catch these punks in the act, or can identify who they are.

Zimmerman may have taken this too far, but I can't blame him for being fed up with this crap, and wanting to put a stop to it!

I would rather take a beating than to allow fear to cause me to take the life of another human being(especially a child)...........He was not a law enforcement officer............He does not have the right to confront ANYONE!!.........His job as neighborhood watch is to observe and report to the police....PERIOD.... never....ever....to confront..........neighborhood watch does NOT have that authority.......had Zimmerman stayed in his vehicle for 2 more mins the boy would be home and alive....Zimmerman wouldnt have gotten his ass kicked.........He did not have the authority to confront the boy for any reason...was told "You DO NOT need to do that".........and if and i do say "if" Zimmerman so much as laid his hands on the boy,grabbed his arm to stop him,question him,or impeed Trevons departure in any way whatsoever,the boy had every right to sock him in the nose(who here would not have done the same thing if anybody other than a police officer followed them or confronted him in any way) Every choice Zimmerman made after hearing "You do not need to do that" was a mistake and beyond what authority neighborhood watch has. They have NO authority whatsoever.........observe and report........that is ALL the law allows neighborhood watch to do...........PERIOD!!

I hope they indict him and it goes to trial. The calls to 911 and the calls to the girlfriend will paint the picture of a vigilante stalking a victim. Zimmerman should be convicted of assault with intent to harm, brandishing a weapon, illegal discharge of a weapon, and manslaughter. Zimmerman was looking for a fight. He was told by the 911 dispatcher that it was unwise to continue following the boy, "we don't need you to do that." He knew officers were enroute and instead of waiting for them he confronted the boy himself and precipitated the fight. Trayvon Martin had a right to be where he was doing what he was doing. Zimmerman had no right to approach him or question his presence. Zimmerman should do at least 20 years in Raiford for his crimes. He better hope that I'm not called for jury duty.

The real question is why exactly didn't this come out sooner being that the media requested copies of court documents back on 3/12/2012. All public information which can be found at the Orange County Clerk of Court site. Plus each case has a list of who obtained copies of Zimmerman's court documents so far. Domestic Violence stays on your arrest record for life in Florida, no matter the outcome. It is considered a reoccurring offense, and the arrest stays documented due to signs of possible repeated physical abuse.

Why exactly are others upset with MSNBC for releasing the information, although usually this information would have been released within days. That is if Trayvon's death would have been taken seriously. The initial investigation was poorly done. None of these so called witnesses said Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, till later. Why exactly was Trayvon's school record released to the public, he's a minor. Maybe it was leaked intentionally, just makes no sense. Especially when juvenile records & school records are not public information. Sadly the persons responsible for the leak made a penny or two.

Zimmerman wasn't allowed to possess, own or use a firearm per FLorida state law and Alcohol Education Program. Florida Statute 790.06(2)(f) " It shall be presumed that an applicant chronically and habitually uses alcoholic beverages or other substances to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired if the applicant has been committed under chapter 397" Mr. Zimmerman was court ordered to a pretrial intervention program. Florida Statute 397.334(5)"Treatment-based drug court programs may include pretrial intervention programs as provided in ss. 948.08, 948.16, and 985.345, treatment-based drug court programs authorized in chapter 39, postadjudicatory programs as provided in ss. 948.01, 948.06, and 948.20, and review of the status of compliance or noncompliance of sentenced offenders through a treatment-based drug court program. While enrolled in a treatment-based drug court program, the participant is subject to a coordinated strategy developed by a drug court team under subsection (4). The coordinated strategy may include a protocol of sanctions that may be imposed upon the participant for noncompliance with program rules. The protocol of sanctions may include, but is not limited to, placement in a substance abuse treatment program offered by a licensed service provider as defined in s. 397.311..." And Drug based programs, per statute 397.334(4)(d) Drug court programs provide access to a continuum of alcohol, drug, and other related treatment and rehabilitation services.

3 years is the cap, so I'm assuming he acquired his firearm license after.

people we may never know what really happened because only 2 people were involved and 1 is dead, you can convict him on here and in the media, but unless someone refutes his and the other witness statements, There is no crime here, And everyone is overlooking the eyewitness statement from the guy who SAW TRAYVON assaulting Zimmerman, bashing his head on the concrete, and before you call him a coward for shooting his assailant, If someone was bashing your head in the concrete, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?? You cant refute zimmermans statement because you werent there, you dont know if zimmerman confronted him or the other way around, The Law must PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that zimmerman was the agressor, they dont have that proof at this point, lets not RUSH TO JUDGEMENT, remember casy anthony and oj and oh yeah The DUKE LACROSSE TEAM. Cases are investigated by Law Enforcement, not the MEDIA, cases are tried in COURT not the MEDIA,

It was stated that Zimmerman was coming back from the store...yes probably the liquor store as he sounds intoxicated and/or impaired on the 911 tape. Thats why they did not drug or alcohol test him, those racist bastards knew he had been drinking. NO JUSTICE NO PEACE...honestly if it were my child, he would definitely need to be under police protection. @!$%# the Police, NWA had it right years ago.

.

D-2897077, Please give us just one creditable source that says that Zimmerman was drunk...just one...

Oh, and some college blog is not going to pass the smell test... You just want this guy to be guilty...

Sick of all the continual, valuable Collapsed by Community entries, by who? MSNBC or is it people who can not stand the truth?.

What is the matter?. All have something of value to say---equal rights for Freedom of Speech?

Actually, it was trayvon who was walking back to his father's gf's place from the store. Which is why they said he had skittles & ice tea. Zimmerman was on "patrol" seeing as how he is on the local neighborhood watch.

All you clowns trying to paint Trayvon as a bad dude because he was wearing a hoodie. Get a life. Any black kid who goes to a store and buys a can or bottle of ICED TEA and SKITTLES is not presenting himself as a tough guy gangbanger, "who always gets away" as Zimmerman stated. Trayvon was getting away with what? ! He was a normal kid. What was he getting away with?????? Zimmerman found Trayvon guilty of whatever was in his own mind. From that statement forward Zimmerman made himself in charge of execution. He was carrying a gun for a reason. To shoot someone. I am 60, I wear a hoodie, women think I look cute wearing one! So shoot me!

Yeah - he is a hispanic after all. He must be guilty - probably illegally here as well. Deport him and then execute him. Jack Bond is a real American and belives in frontier justice. The only good hispanic is a dead hispanic - right Jack?

And you, for blatant stupidity.

Sarcasm Steve - not stupidity! Get some fourth grader to explain the difference to you sometime. He can say it to you slowly.

???

Insane how we as americans only jump on issues when its on the news. Have a opinion on things we have no way of knowing till this is sought out. But yet we claim travon is bad or zimmerman. We ALL no nothing. and we should be concerned with all racism not only black on white. but black on black, black on white, etc. Racism is huge out of major cities. You are more likely to have a racial issue in small communities. Why because in major cities we are around so many different cultures that you reliaze how foolish it is to hate a person based on thier color, but we should hate people based on thier actions instead. Leave miami and go to Ft lauderdale you already there notice racism. Whites in that area dislike blacks and latinos. Nobody brings up these issues. I also remember a issue that was brought up a while ago where a bunch of black children that were in a summer camp were not allowed to swim in a pool because the white people did not allow black people to swim there. Were was the outrage then, I was so upset and nobody was thier.

If some smart-ass punk stopped me while I was peacefully walking down the street and pulled a gun on me, he'd be sporting more than a broken nose and a bump on the back of his head. He had no official authorization to stop anyone, repeat, he had no official authorization to stop anyone, especially with a firearm and after being told by the 911 operator not to do so. This punk is seriously challenged in the brains department and realized after the fact when he shot Trayvon that he was in a world of ****! He cried, not because he killed someone, but because he knew he was going to get arrested and maybe spend the rest of his life in jail. Who knows if the wounds he has weren't self-inflicted? Wouldn't put it past him. By the way, don't anyone say he was the neighborhood watch captain. The articles clearly stated that he was the "self-appointed" captain of the neighborhood watch...big difference.

KACZ, he was hot holding the gun or pointing it at him when he asked him if he lived in the area.

The gun came out after the gangbanger broke his nose and then tried to murder him by slamming his head into a curb.

He cried because the guy broke his nose for no good reason. When walking in a gated community, expect that. If you can't handle it, stay out of the gated community.

By the way, Zimmerman was a mentor for two black teens.

If you responded the way you say, you would be pushing up daisy's

Really? He was a mentor for two black teens !!!! OMG you should go on the news and let everyone know this proof that you just made up for the blog. Like really, you just make some stupid remark as he is a mentor for two black teens and expect for anyone to believe you without any type of proof. Where is that proof?

KACZ -

While I agree with you IF your facts are what have been released.

1. There is no EVIDENCE that GZ ever made ANY contact with TM. The 911 call was from within his car and he called the Police to make the physical contact.

2. There is no EVIDENCE that HE PULLED A GUN on TM. There is evidence again that GZ had lost visual contact of TM and was back at his truck. No witness has said that GZ was chasing anyone in public with his gun waving about.

3. Again your version of the facts depart when you say GZ has no authorization to stop TM. Again where are your facts that GZ ever made any close contact with TM. To stop someone I would guess you need to be close enough to at least put a distant arm on him. The facts are he was in his CAR/Truck supported by the 911 tapes. He left his car AFTER TM started to run. The dispatcher said to stop following TM. to that GZ said OK and the TM was gone. GZ is on tape talking to dispatch retuning to car to meet police.

So, while it is easy to get emotional, please stick to the facts to try to get to the bottom of what really happened.

Remember that the struggle also had witnesses that say TM was the aggressor. While we can dispute who was the aggressor we need to do it within the facts that we have at the time and as they continue to come out.

Prayers to TM and his family...

He was told not to pursue because it he (Zimmerman) who would be in danger, most authorities tell you do the same and not to be heroic.

However, in trying to be a good samaritan (since a number of burglaries were already reported in the area) he overstep his bounds. Zimmerman did not pursue or chase, he followed just like I would expect my neighbor to do if they saw someone scoping my house. Martin could have been packing heat also, Zimmerman didn't know. He didn't recognize Martin, because Martin was in the area because he was suspended from school. Both overstep their bounds. The killing was needless, but I wasn't the one there nor getting beat up - as the only living person is able to atest.

Sorry to say that these so called "facts" you cite X321, are nothing than further speculation. There is plenty of that of going on both sides will any real proof of any of it..as it stand right now no body really knows what happened other than the statements given by the shooter and commetns made by some witnesses and leaked to the news.

X321-

I agree with you IF your facts are what have been released. We must of listen to different tapes. Also the bottom line is this kid did nothing wrong for this guy to confront him. The story that this kid on his way home after buying candy just went beserk makes no sense whatsoever.

roger ramjet, you are just a troll, and not even a very good one.

"Oh, by-the-way, Zimmerman was a mentor" blah. blah. blah. so was the dead teenager. he worked as a coach, with his dad, teaching disadvantaged kids sports.

and since when does ANYONE in this country have the right to stalk someone walking down the street in a neighborhood that his victim had every right to be in, chase him, corner him, and accost him? since when does anyone in this nation, which has 'liberty and justice for ALL' have the obligation to answer the question of anyone other than a uniformed police officer? which Zimmerman was not. Zimmerman would have had my size 11 lady-boot up his ass for that one if he pulled it on me. if he hadn't stalked this kid despite instruction from 911 not to do so, he wouldn't have needed his gun, would he? his fat butt belonged in his vehicle, minding his cell phone and his own business. especially since this was just another false alarm that this loser had called in over the last few weeks. he deserved a s**t-load more than a busted nose for stalking and menacing a minor, and he's not going to be able to cry his fat face out of this one, whatever trolls like you are hoping and praying for.

Stear72,

I see your point but disagree with it.

1. GZ said OK after the directive and that TM was gone and GZ is walking back to meet Police at his truck. So he did comply. But I will forward to you the GZ has absolutely NO OBLIGATION to obey the directive of the dispatcher. GZ has the LEGAL right to follow as long as he stays a passive follower. So, I would say that GZ did comply even if he did not have too.

So to say that GZ overstepped his bounds would imply that he actually did by breaking the law. Is there something else that I am missing here? BTW.. TM also did nothing against the LAW in being there as well....A tragedy of events...

X321,

There was also no evidence collected by the police indicating that Mr. Zimmerman was ever assaulted. No photos, no clothing, no blood in the patrol car, none at all. So far all eye witnesses who have come forward that support Mr. Zimmerman have done so anonymously.

Risha,

It is a tragedy . The facts are coming out. But I am having trouble with

WHERE IN ANY OF THE RELEASED FACTS does it show that GZ actually made or "confronted "TM. Right now the facts are that GZ never was able nor was he trying to "CATCH" him. He was giving directional information to the Police on where TM was running.

We do know that a confrontation took place but that is after GZ had returned to his truck waiting for Police. We do not yet know why TM would return. But here is where the facts for me stop....Waiting for the witness to let more information out till I jump in either direction for now..

vwterry,

I am not sure of this.

There is a record that GZ was treated by medical on scene for broken nose and head contusions. The Police report does state that GZ had grass stains on his back. There are two witness present that watched the event to "some degree" that both say TM was on-top.

While none of this I put up as GZ is innocent, I also argue that not all the witness statements are out nor would we yet know if any photos are to be released later.

I would want to know more about any witness that actually say the first punch and the struggle. At this point I would be guessing that either was in self defense mode etc....

Allie22, I agree with you 100%. I couldn't come up with the proper wording in my previous post, but you did. Thank you!

Allie22,

Why do you inject the terms "chase him, corner him, and accost him?"

I do not see in the record that is released that GZ ever made contact with TM until AFTER the 911 call was terminated. This is at least 2 minutes after GZ states the TM is gone. Is this where you think he was cornered?

I think that your emotions are a little elevated. While TM had every legal right to be there you must also agree the GZ had every legal right to call the Police to investigate what GZ thought was a suspicious person.

It look right now to me that two legal activities happened. Then they ended based on 911 tapes. What is still in question is why there was a second real confrontation with physical contact resulting in one person dead. I will wait to read the witness statements when released to find the truth. I hope we all can agree to that...

spear::: He was in the area because he had been suspended from school? His being suspended from school wasn't why he was in the area. His parents are divorced and his father's girlfriend lives in that community. He and his father were GUESTS of the girlfriend and they were watching basketball.

If you don't know anything keep your mouth shut. You and others show that your brains aren't between your ears. Bet Zimmerman's brains aren't between his ears either.

None of the "witnesses" saw how the confrontation started, they only noticed what was going on after the scuffle started.

All we have is Zimmerman's word, on what he said to Trayvon, and who provoked who.

X321: The "record", is just Zimmerman's account of what happened. It's easy to see that you want ot believe him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Why, if Zimmerman had a broken nose, didn't he go to a doctor that night? He did not not. But, only, maybe the next morning. Did he watch one last episodes of "The Walking Dead" in between? Look for a tree with his blood and you will have your answer.

Let us also not forget that the Sanford investigating office who attended the scene that night filed an affidavit that Zimmerman should be arrested for manslaughter because he did not believe Zimmerman's account of events. He was overruled by the DA who has since been dismissed from the case and replaced by the Florida State prosecuting attorney appointed by the governor.

No matter how the evidence of the details come out this much is true: Zimmerman's paranoid mindset and subsequent actions that night are what led to Martin being killed. The entire sequence of events was set in motion by Zimmerman and not by Martin.

That's just the way Florida is.

From my experience of it? Pretty much, yeah.

How does anybody know for a fact that Trayvon didn't pull the gun out of Zimmermans holster during the struggle? gEtting the gun from Zimmerman could be a reason for trayvon to go after him. So many ready to insist they know exactly what happened yet weren't anywhere near the scene. From the reports it sounds like the neighborhood had crime issues. Why was Trayvon sent out to walk to the store alone at night in a strange neighborhood known to have issues with black people commiting crimes in it? Did Trayvon not have a drivers license? I think I would have had my son who is the same age, drive rather than walk in a strange neigborhood. Better yet I would have taken him myself. What if any curfew hours are there in that neighborhood for youth? Where I live under 16 in by 10pm 16-18 in by midnight. If kids are out later than curfew where I live the police will be taking a look at them as well as any neighborhood watch folks out and about. Also if my son was suspended from school for any eason he would be gronded to te house and not allowed to wander anywhere or be using his cell.It's called discipline for inappropriate behavior.

So many ready to see Trayvon as an innocent little boy. Well the fact is that MANY young men of that age are already drop-outs, teen parents, some of multiple children by multiple young women, have criminal records for various offenses have tattoos even though by law they can't until 18, have obtained drivers licenses and had them already suspended for various reasons, have had arrests and some convictions for crimes like drug use and dealing, assault, robbery and gang banging etc.. etc.. This is all over the nation not just in Florida.

BTW you can't have a concealed weapon permit if you have been convited of a felony. Another poster pointed out that when Zimmerman was arrested for fighting ec.. he was around 21 yrs old and young men at that age do make mistakes when drinking, doesn't make them lifelong heinous felons. I know for a fact Zimmerman isn't the only one. Just look at reports from any college across the country. The domestic violence issue could mean that both were being violent as the restraining orders went both ways. None of us have any idea what the actual issues were between Zimmerman and his girlfrend. And like a lot said about trayvons personal issues, Zimmermans have nothing to do with this current incident.

So many ready to see Trayvon as an innocent little boy. Well the fact is that MANY young men of that age are already drop-outs, teen parents, some of multiple children by multiple young women, have criminal records for various offenses have tattoos even though by law they can't until 18, have obtained drivers licenses and had them already suspended for various reasons, have had arrests and some convictions for crimes like drug use and dealing, assault, robbery and gang banging etc.. etc.

The point is that Trayvon was a middle class B student with no criminal record and was not at all any of those things you are projecting. He had just turned 17.

Kacz-

If some smart-ass punk stopped me while I was peacefully walking down the street and pulled a gun on me, he'd be sporting more than a broken nose and a bump on the back of his head. He had no official authorization to stop anyone, repeat, he had no official authorization to stop anyone, especially with a firearm and after being told by the 911 operator not to do so. This punk is seriously challenged in the brains department and realized after the fact when he shot Trayvon that he was in a world of ****! He cried, not because he killed someone, but because he knew he was going to get arrested and maybe spend the rest of his life in jail. Who knows if the wounds he has weren't self-inflicted? Wouldn't put it past him. By the way, don't anyone say he was the neighborhood watch captain. The articles clearly stated that he was the "self-appointed" captain of the neighborhood watch...big difference.

If you suspect someone of doing something like prowling, you do have a right to follow that is all Zimmerman did, he did not stop him. If you would read an article from a news source other than MSNBC you might know what is going on, there is only one witness and he backs up what Zimmerman said so I guess he is lying too right. The witness said Martin was the aggressor. Zimmerman had a right to follow someone in his neighborhood especially when there had been break ins, in the neighborhood. The kid was kicked out of school also I guess the parents forgot to tell everyone that when they claimed he was a good kid. As for you saying that Zimmerman probably gave the injutrys like his broken nose, too himself. Well that is like me saying maybe Martin shoot himself to make it look as though Zimmerman did it, see how that doesn't make any since either. It is funny too me that there is only one witness and everyone keeps trying to go around what the witness said including Obama when is he going to realize he should not make comments on cases like this in tell the facts are in, the only reason Obama jumped in was because he was black just like the time with the white police officers that stopped and arrested the black business man, Obama put is noise into that also. Learn the fact there is a couple of reasons Zimmerman has not been charged, first because the only witness tells the same storey as he does, next because of his injury's and finally because of the 911 tap where you hear Zimmerman crying out for help. These are the only facts in this case and Zimmerman will not be charged, mark my words. Before you hit a guy you better make sure he doesn't have a gun.

wow skrewed, according to your description of "many" young men that age, we should shoot them all if that is your justification for zimmerman shooting trayvon.

skrewedworld

Your comments show a mindset much like Zimmerman's on the 911 tapes. There is FAR too much imagination and conjecture in your post to make it of any value. In addition some of your ideas such as driving the teen to the store are downright idiotic. It only takes some of these posts to reinforce the idea that America is a society with huge problems.

The gun came out after the gangbanger broke his nose and then tried to murder him by slamming his head into a curb.

He cried because the guy broke his nose for no good reason. When walking in a gated community, expect that. If you can't handle it, stay out of the gated community.

And you know he was a gangbanger how?? And you know for a fact he "broke zimmerman's nose for no good reason" how?? Trayvon should have expected to be "stalked" & ran down because he was in a gated comm. visiting his father?? I doubt trayvon was trying to murder him IF he had slammed his head into the concrete, which from the way things sound like they happened, Trayvon had the right to do. From everything that I've read/heard about this case, it sounds like Trayvon would be the one who could've claimed self defense. I feel that once Zimmerman took it upon himself not to listen when the dispatcher told him he "did not need to follow", he threw his right to claim self defense right out the window the moment he got out of his vehicle. As neighborhood watch he did not have that authority, the only thing he was authorized to do was call 911 in the event of something/one suspicious. Unfortunately he felt like he should take matters into his own hands & play "cop" & followed trayvon. Now even IF trayvon HAD been doing something "suspicious", zimmerman still handled the situation the wrong way by doing something he didnt have the authority to do. IF trayvon had been doing something "suspicious" zimmerman should have done his "job/duty" correctly & called 911 & left it at that. If he had done things the way he was suppose to none of this would have happened & trayvon would still be alive. People forget that zimmerman had previously made (I believe) 40+ false calls to 911 about "suspicious black males" his story about Trayvon appearing "suspicious" could have also been false for all we know b/c none of us were there. Its unfortunate that someone so young had to lose his life, but I hope that this is investigated as it should be & done so in a "fair" manner with no "favoritism" & we the people will have to deal with & accept the outcome/decision even if its turns out to be one we dont agree with. We arent the ones in charge of making that decision, But I hope those who do will do it w/o being "biased" i think is the word im looking for, if not the pardon me=).

I keep hearing about Zimmerman having his head "slammed on the concrete". If that were the case, why was he not sent to a hospital?? If he had a broken nose, why was he not sent to a hospital?? If he was treated by paramedics and had such serious injuries - why didn't they take him to a hospital??

Unfortunately, there is only one person alive who knows what happened in the first few minutes when Zimmerman finally caught up with Trayvon, and that person is protecting himself.

@ Jim:

Restraining orders are granted on allegation alone. There is no "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt," just an allegation. Being slapped with a restraining order is not a criminal conviction. It is nothing more than a court order telling someone not to contact someone else for a certain number of days.

@ Jim:

as far as the restraining order goes, the female party in that received one as well so she's as guilty as him.

And it wasn't drug counseling, it was alcohol, slightly different.

And really a speeding ticket that was thrown out, that's like being given a warning ticket for your brake light being out.

@Shandril

The restraining order issuance simply shows Zimmerman has a propensity towards violence. Attacking the police officer shows that he has a propensity towards violence, in addition to a propensity to be the aggressor escalating violent situations.

If we put those two situations together with this current situation, it isn't difficult to imagine Zimmerman, the one who pursued Trayvon Martin when he was told not to, the one who had the loaded 9 milli in a holster around his waist - not hard to imagine Zimmerman being the aggressor in this situation - not the helpless victim who had no choice but to shoot an unarmed teenager.

Here's another thing. You notice the article refers to Zimmerman as a "self-described neighborhood watch" whatever. Zimmerman wasn't acting in any official capacity. He's something like a nut - running around the neighborhood with a loaded gun - thinking he's in charge - delusional, really. Zimmerman needs to be off the street so people can be safe.

Also, doesn't it seem strange that George Zimmerman NEVER ONCE mentioned he was with the "neighborhood watch" on the 911 call?

There were several times during the call, that it would have been appropriate to mention that!

"And it wasn't drug counseling, it was alcohol, slightly different."

Right...because alcohol (since it's legal to obtain) is not a drug. lol

Torcots did put something in his post which surprised me when i heard it yesterday, that George Zimmerman was carrying a 9 milli in a holster on his waist, if it was clearly visible wouldn't he have been "open carrying" in a state that only allows "concealed carry"? Just wondering how hard it is to "conceal" a 9 milli with a sweatshirt if he was carrying it that way.

@AQ alcohol is legal to obtain when you are 21, he was only 20. He went out looking for a confrontation. He pulled the gun. Even if the kid went after the gun, which is now what is being said, he went for the gun to probably try and get it out of Zimmerman's hand. Its funny how this story seems to change daily. He was told to quit following the kid, he did not. Neighborhood watches are supposed to report, not confront, he which he again failed. There was a witness saying she saw Zimmerman hitting himself, yet someone else says the kid was hitting him. My question then is, how does a 130 lb kid beat the crap out of a 250 lb man? Now it shows the man has violence in his past, the kid has never been shown to be violent.

When your daddy is a judge, all your legal troubles will magically disappear.

Truett I guess we read different articles, it states in 2005 he got a lesser charge for going through alcohol education program. If he wouldn't have done this he was looking at three felony charges. He and his ex were both granted protection orders. This man is far from being the angel you want to see him as. I guess only time will tell if he is guilty or innocent of this. Maybe he can plea down the a misdemeanor assault charge on this one after all it was just a black kid.

Zimmerman as a "self-described neighborhood watch"

I have read that he often "patrolled" the neighborhood once calling 911 like 60 something times during New Years Eve. But I don't know if this hurts his case since none of his other "neighborhood watch" outings lead to a shooting. It is a tragic situation, and since I do not have all the facts I will let the professionals handle it. My guess is both parties should of handle it differently and unfortunately we can not go back in time.

As far as the race thing goes, I think race made no difference in this at all.

Truth #1: Mr. Zimmerman shot Trayvon. Period. The only questions are the ones surrounding the circumstances, whether there was a fight (There seems to have been, judging by the wounds on George's thick skull), whether there was racial profiling involved to start it (Zimmerman has a track record for snooping and a truly shocking number of calls about "suspicious activities" by black males), and whether he was within his rights as a neighborhood watchperson, property owner, or what-have-you to carry a gun and use it when he felt threatened.

Truth #2: No matter what the esteemed Reverend Al Sharpton would have you believe, no part of this is about killing the reputation of the deceased. I CAN see the point in not speaking ill of the dead as a general statement of truth, BUT applying a goose-and-gander principle to the whole thing means that both parties reputations need to be out there in order for justice to be done. If anything, the commentary along that theme, specifically that which the Reverend finds so objectionable, is an indictment of the culture we live in, where it has become mainstream to both think that hoodies are gang apparel and think that they are not. I would ask anyone who believes otherwise to first explain why hoodies worn with the hoods up were banned at political rallies in the '08 election, and second explain how Trayvon Martin in particular managed to get suspended for drug residues in his book bag.

Truth #3: The good Reverend Sharpton tipped his hand when he allowed the discussion to be centered on the "killing of a young man's reputation" (I apologize profusely if that is not a verbatim quote). Reverend Sharpton has demonstrated an ability to argue and debate an issue from virtually any stance, any position, IMHO, so why this aspect of this case? Simple. No one is willing to argue that George Zimmerman is the villain in this case, so it's an easy one. In order to serve Reverend Sharpton's agenda, Trayvon Martin CANNOT be allowed to be seen as anything but a martyred saint. The facts of the case, as stated above, make the trial itself a dice roll and a perfect opportunity for Reverend Sharpton to see if the very mention of his name, let alone whatever petitions, marches, etc. he could organize--if even the thought of that has the same effect on society that the burning crosses of a thankfully bygone era had. Reverend Sharpton has all but declared in this that he wants the entire state of Florida to be asking just how severe a punishment George Zimmerman needs to go through in order to pacify the masses, some of whom would sign the petition without caring if it was about this case or nominating Reverend Sharpton for the papacy. To think I used to respect Mr. Sharpton......

I see these "charges" but NO CONVICTIONS......

Ah, but did Zimmerman do any of these things while wearing a hoodie?

Trayvon Martin didn't have any charges, let alone convictions. But a lot of people seem to be convinced that he is the criminal.

New Guy,

There are "belly holsters" that are worn around the waist and UNDER the shirt. They are designed for concealed carry.

The problem in this whole discussion -- in the media and on this vine -- is that people want to jump to conclusions (based on whatever side they wish to take) and not wait for ALL the facts to come out in legal proceedings.

The problem I have with Zimmerman is that he was FOLLOWING Martin (based on the 911 call) instead of simply reporting him. That is really not a "stand your ground" tactic.

As far as the police actions -- in my home state, under the law, even if you legally use a weapon in true self defense, the police WILL arrest you pending review of the situation by the prosecutor's office. The police are not empowered to determine the facts of the case.

As far as Martin, IF he did in fact double back to attack Zimmerman, we now seem to have TWO aggressors, which complicates the whole deal.

I think the media and everyone else need to quit operating on assumptions, and let the legal authorities sort this thing out. And, please, don't tell me the police and the prosecutors are not doing their jobs. That is just another assumption.

What about the poor innocent UNRELATED elderly couple in their 70's who Spike Lee and the other mindless protesting mobs have decended upon in Orlando just because their name is Zimmerman?? Spike Lee and others tweeted this poor couple's address claiming it was George Zimmerman's address (it is not his address and there is no relation) and the mindless violent mobs of protestors have shown up, threatened to kill them, threatened to burn their house down, and destroyed the front of their house and yard. They tried to explain that they were not the right Zimmermans but the mobs and protestors refused to listen. They had to move into a hotel for their own safety! Attacking and harming innocent people = Great way to get JUSTICE you morons!

Realist, interesting moniker for a person who needs to use innuendo to connect Zimmerman’s father to this case with absolutely no evidence to support your implication that Mr. Zimmerman Sr. is involved what-so-ever. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading gossip and rumor.

The only thing that smells bad here is the fifth grade mentality that is turning a tragedy into a carnival of idiotic conjecture and insinuation with no link to any of the evidence, and no clear reasoning with information.

I think it is nice to see a most positive reaction out of all this. Awareness of the stereotypical reaction of tough self-appointed armed bullies in neighborhoods calling the fashion rules on people or they will shoot you.

Heraldo's reaction that it was the hoodie was just so typical of people past their prime.

Anyway you cut this, against authority recommendation, Zimmerman hunted down Trayvon, confronted Trayvon and shot Trayvon.

PS and Zimmerman's daddy is a retired judge, not much extra privlege there now is there? sarcasm

Felang, when your parents are siblings all your troubles are far away.

Zimmerman acted as a mentor to a black single mother and her two children, and had helped them raise money for their all-black church.

I wonder if Spike Lee, or the Reverand have any facts at all about this guy?

Well, I guess if Truancy, Tardiness and Marijuana is being used to show that Martin was a thug..... these old dismissed cases can be used against Zimmerman.

Also, why even mention speeding?

Note that is was the "New" Black Panthers that placed the bounty. The "Old" Black Panters denounced it. It seems we are moving away from equality to a country divided. MLK did not have that in mind. I do not understand why the color of someone's skin makes a difference. Humans are humans, good and bad. May God help us.

Joe, the bounty was raised to $1,000,000 yesterday.

No matter how bad it gets for Zimmerman, it cannot get any worse for Trayvon.

THis situation needs a real investigation-period. If that had happened in the first place we would not have the mess we have now.

Someone was killed. It should be investigated. Taking the shooter's word for what happened without investigation is unconscionable, particularly since the other involved party is dead.

MSNBC is doing everything they can to make zimmerman look bad, including the race card.

I know another outlet that is doing the same to Trayvon. Trying to link what may have been an empty bag that may have had cannabis in it (which led to a school suspension) to this current incident.

Zimmermans past isn't the only ones that is being picked apart. Why didn't you mention that? Seems you are biased in favor of Zimmerman while expressing hate for the "liberal" media. Why should anyone take anything you say seriously when you show such an obvious bias?

The man will break all kinds of laws, just for votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you implying the President is committing crimes to defend Trayvon? Since when is answering a reporters question a crime?

Like I said, your bias makes anything you say unbelievable.

Anyone heard the latest, "Trayvon supporting students, raiding and looting a Walgreens, because of their outrage?" Supposedly this took place in Washington, D.C.

As someone else said on a previous post, "noone wins." Actually, a couple of people and groups are winning. No one directly involved with this issue, (and I don't mean the politicians and the radical mouthpieces inflaming the issue,) is actually coming out ahead. Least of all racial issues.

They are being aggravated, and it is rapidly heading toward a major problem for this nation. Dr. King would be disgusted with people throwing his name around in this issue.

Get this OUT of the media, and in the hands of the legitimate authorities, trying to resolve this issue, LEGALLY.

As much as I believe Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter based upon what I've read so far, I don't see how these allegations tell us anything. He was 20 and drunk when he got into a tussel with a cop. Drunk 20 year olds are notoriously stupid. As for the restraining order, we can't tell much without the actual order and the reasons seeing the actual order. Was there actual physical abuse or just threats. As for the speeding tickets, come on.....

Folks, it's like the attempt to smear Trayvon with the pot stories. He's a teenage boy in the USA. Most teenage boys have tried pot - heck most adults have (note: I have never smoked por nor been caught speeding, been involved in domestic violence, drank underage or assualted a police officer).

All of this is crap and has no reflection on the wild west that has been produced by all this concealed carry crap (note: I love to shoot and am fully trained to use both pistol and rifle.).

If you listened to his (Zimmermen's) 911 call, he was told NOT TO FOLLOW, when asked where he was he told the 911 dispatcher when the Police enter the complex to give them his cell phone number and he will then tell them where he was. This proves to me that he continued to follow the teen. On the same 911 call Zimmermen said and I will say this in a nice manner, Zimmerman said they always get away, NOT this time, which also proves to me that he had all intentions of doing something to this teen. In regards to his claiming self defense, I am positive Zimmerman pulled out the gun and like any normal human being, the teen then would have had NO choice but to have fought for his life. Here is a Question? Did Zimmerman identify himself? and if so How and in what way? I haven't even heard of any statement from Zimmerman as to why a fight would have broken out. Here you had a skinny teen against a 250+ pound nut case with a 9mm gun. The parents should sue Zimmerman for the slaying of they son and the Community that allowed this NUT to patrol it and the State for allowing this NUT to carry a GUN.

Given how spotty some of these news stories are, let's do some independent research here:

According to the Orange Co FL court records, Zimmerman has been in there five times:

7/18/2005 Resisting officer with battery, 7/18/2005 resisting officer without battery. Criminal felony, case closed--Written pla of not guilty entered 8/05/05, Defendant not present 10/27/2005, PTD program agreement for supervision 6/15/2006, Nolle Prosequi 7/28/2006

And here's this from the DOJ website about that PTD program:

The U.S. Department of Justice has a Pretrial Diversion program (PTD) which basically allows a potential defendant to avoid criminal prosecution for lesser crimes. The person has to sign an agreement with the Department of Justice or U.S. Attorney's Office and agrees to be supervised by a Pretrial Services Officer for a period of time not to exceed 18 months. The subject will have to report to pretrial services and be booked, ie, fingerprinted, photographed, etc..., so the government can monitor the subject's behavior during the diversion period. It is important for the subject of the PTD program to not violate any laws during this time because doing so can result in the PTD being terminated and the original charges being prosecuted. Once a subject has successfully completed the PTD program, the government agrees to not prosecute the original charges.

So what all of that boils down to is that Zimmerman pled not guilty was going to go to trial, instead of being tried he was shuttled into PTD, a sort of parole monitoring situation and the case was dropped. Thee were originally two charges; resisting officer with battery (fought a cop in a bar according to some accounts) wen the cop called another to arrest Zimmerman Mr Zimmerman resisted the other officer but did not assault him. Both those charges we combined to one case. In this case I do think hat his father being a former judge most likely did have something to do with the way this turned out because the PTD program is supposed to be for misdemeanors and assaulting a cop is a felony. If that trial had gone on and he had not been shuttled into the PTD program, he would almost certainly have been found guilty.

8/9/2005 Domestic violence, case now closed-Temporary injunction issued 8/10/2005, permanent injunction issued 8/24/05. He then filed a counter-case in which he sought an injunction against Ms. Zuazo, which was also granted.

12/14/2006 Speeding, case closed--officer did not appear.

12/14/2006 No vehicle registration during stop, case closed--officer did not appear.

Speeding, really? We're supposed to look at these 2 traffic infractions as a history of run-ins with the law? C'mon...now you're really grasping at straws! How many of us didn't get pulled over for speeding at some time in our lives?

And to Pulp-Fiction...based on what you heard on the 911 call? What about the eye-witness who stated that Martin initiated the attack and supports Zimmerman's statement that when he was directed by the 911 operator not to follow the guy, he stopped following him and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked? I'm not taking anyone's side on this...my point is that none of you are privy to all the information/details. Stop convicting Zimmerman until the truth comes out. If he did something wrong, let the process work and send the guy to jail - I have no issues with that. But if it turns out that Martin did something wrong, you all will have a lot of egg on your collective faces! (like you probably did in the Duke Lacrosse issue, the Tawana Brawley issue, the Harvard professor issue....)

new guy said:

Torcots did put something in his post which surprised me when i heard it yesterday, that George Zimmerman was carrying a 9 milli in a holster on his waist, if it was clearly visible wouldn't he have been "open carrying" in a state that only allows "concealed carry"? Just wondering how hard it is to "conceal" a 9 milli with a sweatshirt if he was carrying it that way.

According to the partial police report released by Sanford PD, Ofc Timothy Smith wrote in his report :

Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

A little bit further on in the report he states:

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD [Sanford Fire Department] While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to hep me but no one would help me.' At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room at SPD were he was interviews by Investigator D. Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigations and this was the extent of my involvement in the case.

The Kel Tek hand gun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed in to evidence under TS-1

What type of tool was used in the burglaries in zimmerman's neighborhood? What was stolen?

Wonder if "daddy" being a former judge had anything to do with the officers failing to appear in court. When I went to court for a speeding ticket, the officers were subpoened and HAD to show up.

Zimmerman belongs in jail with no less than a manslaughter charge.

His actions elevated the situation, he was the one who acted outside of his authority and outside of his responsibility.

All this window dressing is really, well stupid. What color their skin is, who got suspended for what from school, who did what when he was twenty years old. What does any of this have to do with this case? Nothing. All the facts I needed to know there should have been a investigation I knew the first day!

They are: A grown man shot and killed an unarmed teenage. Nuff Said!

Tortscot,

The restraining order issuance simply shows Zimmerman has a propensity towards violence

I could go into a court right now and get a restraining order against you without ever meeting you. All you need is a sob story.

I don't get it?? I thought that ANYONE who has a history of assaulting the police, convicted or not, was more of a danger to the public?? I know cops look at it this way.

I guess not for Mr. Zimmerman. Was his carry card yanked at the time and given back when daddy got him off??

you pointed out that Zimmerman's record indicates he stalked and was violent. Do you not think Martin was violent. I mean he actually attacked and beat Zimmerman. Had he not physically attacked Zimmerman, he would be alive today.

Really???? With a charge of resisting an officer with battery on his record!! Who are we (or a jury for that matter) to believe?

But if it turns out that Martin did something wrong, you all will have a lot of egg on your collective faces! (like you probably did in the Duke Lacrosse issue, the Tawana Brawley issue, the Harvard professor issue....)

Uhhhh...... Bethany Storro, Ashley Todd, Brian Wells, Susan Smith, Robert Ralston(cop), Bonnie Sweeten, Charles Suart, Amy Fox, all come to mind................. a whole carton of eggs there......

Thanks for the responses to my questions , Amanda-2017567 and Mel-1608305, very informative posts.

You people talk about racism against blacks, but nothing is being said about the new black panthers offering a bounty for someone. But if you want to see massive protests looting and vandalism let a white supremist group put a bounty on a black man. And you can have all the wear your hoodies to protests you want, but the fact is the hoodie already has its fashion statement recorded many times in the city I live in. The recordings are from surveillance cameras in convenience stores that are being robbed at gunpoint or clerks being shot by black males wearing hoodies, you can't hide the facts people.

@ J. Merle Stanley-2759623 , are you kidding me? so you are saying 17 year old Martin took down 250+ pound Zimmerman with a punch to the face? then Knocked him down? Where was the Gun during this struggle? at what point did the gun get presented? How did Zimmerman approach Martin? Plain and SIMPLE, Zimmermen is a Predator, he stalked Martin and in his own words recorded on his ( Zimmermans ) 911 call, " They always get away, NOT this Time" and was told "NOT to follow" Zimmerman had ALL intensions to cause harm to Martin. Get Real and WAKE UP and Smell the COFFEE.

I owe people an apology, I miswrote when I stated "Washington, D.C." regarding the high school students in a Walgreens. It was in southern Florida, and extensive damage was done, as well as thousands of dollars in goods being stolen.

See what happens when we only hear or see what we want to, or think, we see or hear something. Without letting the authorities do THEIR job, all we get is supposition and biased views. After all, we are all human beings, with all the fallacies and foibles inherent in our nature. None of us were there, thus have no basis for real discussion. As one person stated previously, as there were no eye witnesses, it has to be up to gathering evidence, which is best left to people qualified to do that, then let the courts decide.

Simple solution.... LET THE FREAKING CASE GO TO COURT and then all the evidence can come out and a jury can decide.

Differnet, this sounds like a warning! The thing is, this might be where you'll need it.

All of this is crap and has no reflection on the wild west that has been produced by all this concealed carry crap (note: I love to shoot and am fully trained to use both pistol and rifle.).

J Merle Stanley said:

Number one; Trayvon Martin punched Mr. Zimmerman in the face, breaking his nose, and knocking him to the ground. He then jumped on top of Mr. Zimmerman and smashed the back of his head several times into the sidewalk.

According to the partial police report I'm looking at now, there's no mention of any blood found on the sidewalk. If, as Zimmerman said, he was returning to his vehicle when Martin attacked him from behind, punched him in the nose and smashed the back of his head several times into the sidewalk, then how did the actual crime scene where Martin was shot end up being in a wooded area some distance from the road (Zimmerman had to give the dispatchers directions to give to the officers on how to find himself and Martin as they were not along the roadway.)

The only explanation that reconciles Zimmerman's story to the police report is that after Martin incapacitated Zimmerman, he ran, and Zimmerman pursued, then at some point Trayvon turned to face his pursuer and was then shot. However, even this scenario has flaws since the police apparently did not notice any blood or other debris on the sidewalk, although they DO note that he was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head. In fact, Zimmerman's vehicle is not mentioned on any of the partial reports filed by the officers, but his back was thoroughly 'covered in grass' as noted by the officer I quoted above. If he had told the officers at the time that his head had been bashed int the sidewalk the SFD would have taken him to a hospital for a possible concussion--that is standard operating procedure!

The Skittles and iced tea were apparently found at the scene, as that has been the major consistent portion of all the stories currently circulating except Zimmerman's version and the witnesses who said they saw Martin attack Zimmerman. Wouldn't Trayvon have dropped those items in the process of running away from Zimmerman, then coming back, punching Zimmerman and bashing his head into the sidewalk?

Can you hold a beverage and candy with one hand while subduing and assaulting a person who is almost one hundred pounds heavier than yourself? And after your head has impacted a sidewalk multiple times are you even still conscious enough to get up, run after Martin, shoot him and mount his body, return your gun to its holster, then call 911 and give the dispatcher directions to give to the police who are looking for you?

As someone who has an intimate acquaintance with sidewalks through various biking and rollerskating accidents, I can tell you that I have found myself stunned by impact with concrete, and this was without the force of an outside agency pushing my head into it. I have also left more than my share of blood on those sidewalks through scrapes and, in the incident where I was hit by a car on my bike, the blood trail on the ground helped officers pinpoint whose fault the accident was.

And, rather more telling, the 'offense' listed on the police reports list the entire incident as:

'HOMICIDE-NEGLIGENT MANSLAUGHTER-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT.'

(Those are the police department's capital letters, not mine, thank you.) I believe that the Sanford PD's initial assessment, as shown by the above words on the reports, is the correct one and I do believe Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter.

In the end however it's not what I believe or what you believe, what Al Sharpton believes or even President Obama believes-- whether a court finds him guilty or not, eventually Death the great Equalizer is going to come for him an it will be a moot point. And if there is God and He does judge you after you're dead, then Zimmerman will, eventually he'll get whatever he deserves and that is between his God and Him.

(Personally I believe in reincarnation and I hope he comes back as a roach.)

The media is full of it. This story is a recycled story. That came out about three weeks ago when everything started going National.

I hate the one side stories. I think I will have to open up a News Station to always show both sides.

@flossie

There is concrete evidence that Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin - 911 recording - Zimmerman's own admission that he's following Trayvon .

There is not concrete evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. All we have is Zimmerman's word. Zimmerman's word is not "evidence." Are you serious?

@falconer33

The restraining order issued against Zimmerman was based on domestic violence. Granted both parties had been accused of domestic violence. The judge believed both.

Another article pointed out that the relation had been plagued with domestic violence. Therefore, from that piece of information, it can be concluded that Zimmerman has a propensity toward violence. Zimmerman did not deny he'd been violent in the relationship. He simply accused his partner of being violent, as well.

If you know who I am and where I am, go on and try and get a restraining order and see how far you get. You'd have to present more than a "sob story." Judges aren't stupid and don't issue restraining orders with out evidence. You'd be required, by the court, to show good reason for such an order. Surely, you jest!

Where's the front page article about Spike Lee practically calling out the lynch mob... on the wrong people!?!?!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46877583/ns/local_news-orlando_fl/t/trayvon-case-affects-local-couple-sanford-businesses/

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freerepublic.com%2Ffocus%2Ff-news%2F2864909%2Fposts&h=SAQFJbW2SAQHBgysmHJbmRXbU1Ld-qOBa1fuYfjJ0e2orXA

The media bias is sickening!

Amanda, what color is the sun in your world?

Unbelievable said:

I don't get it?? I thought that ANYONE who has a history of assaulting the police, convicted or not, was more of a danger to the public?? I know cops look at it this way.

I guess not for Mr. Zimmerman. Was his carry card yanked at the time and given back when daddy got him off??

According to what I found on the Florida gun permit application:

If you have been convicted of a felony as described in Section 790.23, Florida Statutes, and the felony conviction occurred within the State of Florida, your civil rights and firearm rights must be restored by the Florida Office of Executive Clemency. Felony convictions occurring in another state require restoration of civil and firearm rights by the state in which the conviction occurred. If you were convicted of a felony under federal law, you must have a presidential pardon or have been granted federal relief from disabilities. If your civil rights and firearms rights have not been restored as described above, or if you cannot provide proof of restoration of civil rights and firearms rights, you are not eligible for a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License.

And:

Chapter 790.06(2)(l), Florida Statutes, prohibits issuance of a license to a person who has been issued an injunction that is currently in force and effect restraining that person from committing acts of domestic violence or acts or repeat violence.

And this from a FL domestic violence lawyer:

If you have been found guilty of a "domestic violence" classified offense you will be prohibited from obtaining a concealed weapons permit and any permit currently possessed will be revoked. Furthermore, your Right to possess firearms will be "disabled." That is the term used by the government - it means you will no longer be able to buy, own, or possess a firearm. In Florida, if you are arrested for a "domestic violence" offense and you end up entering a plea of guilty or no contest to an offense related to the arrest, even if it is not classified as domestic violence, your privilege to bear arms will be "disabled."

So he must have gotten his carry permit before the domestic violence injunction was issued, he wouldn't have been able to get one afterward. And it SHOULD HAVE BEEN REVOKED after the restraining order was filed.

Was it a screw driver? Could it have been women's jewelry?

jwilson1234

There is NO REPORT of anyone who saw the initial altercation. All anyone saw was Martin on TOP of Zimmerman. Of course, you'd have to take what his girlfriend said she says that she heard Zimmerman ask him what is he doing here. Martin DOESN'T OWE anyone any explanation of ANYTHING! Martin has every right to defend himself too, and was able to do so. I find it strange that he didn't need to go to the Hospital that same night. EVEN his lawyer said the Zimmerman continued to follow Martin.

The Zimmerman lovers, believe things that they have NO PROOF of.

Trayton would be alive today, if Zimmerman hadn't:

1. ASSumed he was a criminal or threat(he wasn't justified in doing so, since Trayton didn't break any laws or threaten anyone in front of Zimmerman).

2. chased him down in his car/on foot, which would freak just about anyone out.

3. confront Trayton, like Zimmerman was some kind of law enforcement officer, when he wasn't

4. brought a firearm with him(and maybe threatened Trayvon with it).

If your going to make a "citizens arrest" or detain someone outside your property/home, maybe it's better to only carry a taser.

And yes, Zimmerman could very well be bigoted against blacks or teens, even if he "had black friends". He could be bigoted against those he PERCEIVED to be "thugs".

He didn't have the right to make that type of judgement call against someone who was only walking thru his neighborhood, UNLESS he saw them to something illegal or wrong.

PERIOD

Arkius said:

Amanda, what color is the sun in your world?

Excuse me? I don't understand the purpose behind that question.

Arkius said:

Mr. Zimmerman was attacked from behind. Mr. Martin was aware that he was being followed, he stopped and hide behind what must have been a good sized bush, then came up behind Mr. Zimmerman, made his presents known, and then he punched Mr. Zimmerman in the face with such force that he broke his nose and knoced him down. Keep in mind that Mr. Zimmerman weighs around 250lbs. It was at some point after knocking Mr. Zimmerman down that Mr. Martin began slamming Mr. Zimmerman’s head against a curb; it was at that point in the fist fight that Mr. Zimmerman pulled his pistol and shot and killed Mr. Martin.

The available facts do not support this theory of the altercation.

If Martin began 'slamming Mr. Zimmerman's head against a curb' and at that point Zimmerman pulled his gun and 'shot and killed Mr. Martin', then Martin's body would have been found on the sidewalk or road. Martin's body, and Zimmerman, was found in a wooded area between two buildings some distance away from the road according to the report filed by Officer Timothy Smith and corroborated by the 911 tapes--Zimmerman had to give 911 the directions to relay to Officer Smith on how to find him.

The police report says Trayvon Martin is 6'00" and 160 pounds. George Zimmerman is 5'09" and no weight is given. I do not see a way for Martin's body to have made it from the roadway to the grassy/wooded area without the police having noticed drag marks or blood on the sidewalk or curb as you postulate.

I suppose it was expected that in light of the revelations about Trayvon and his drug involvement, school suspensions and facebook photos complete with gang symbols that Zimmerman's background would be relentlessly investigated. This seems appropriate enough but I would have omitted the dismissed traffic ticket because that only displays the depths of the scouring for anything remotely damaging to Zimmerman. Put simply, an investigation with an agenda.

There is no doubt that the race baiters like Sharpton and Jackson will leave no stone unturned in their efforts to fan the flames of racist hysteria. Why? Because they live very comfortable lives promoting racial hatred and racism and they don't want to give that up.

I'm reminded of a quote by Dinesh D'Souza that stated:

'There are many black leaders who publicly claim that racism has not abated, but who privately are worried that it has because where are they going to be without racism

Really Frosty? Embellish much? You chastise others yet it is you who is making crap up stating it as fact. let me fill you in on something, there's this thing called the Internet, you can be checked on what you claim and proved wrong. Which mean, either you are purposefully lying about it, or, as in many cases, you bought what your brothers girlfriends sisters hairdresser told her as fact. OMG follow the link and just look at all that damage that was done!

Frosty-3060541

"I miswrote when I stated "Washington, D.C." regarding the high school students in a Walgreens. It was in southern Florida, and extensive damage was done, as well as thousands of dollars in goods being stolen."

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, Fla. (AP) -- Police say scores of South Florida students who walked out of school to protest the Trayvon Martin shooting investigation instead ransacked a Walgreens.

According to North Miami Beach police, approximately 80 to 100 students rushed through the store's front doors Friday. Police say the students disrupted shelving displays and broke roughly $150 worth of merchandise.

Police say store video shows the North Miami Beach Senior High School assistant principal trying to stop more students from entering. The video did not capture the students ransacking the shelves. It wasn't known if any items were stolen.

Interim Police Chief Larry Gomer said Tuesday that the students had the right to peacefully march in protest, but upending the store crossed the line. Police are trying to identify students who broke or took merchandise.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/trayvon-martin-case-students-ransack-walgreens-during-protest-of-martin-shooting-police-say#ixzz1qQYVRVTW

What I can't stop wondering is if Travon had shot Zimmerman and killed him after Zimmerman followed and most likely confronted him, would Travon be at home right now? Would those who are trying defend Zimmerman be talking about Zimmerman's past? I seriously doubt that, and yet Zimmerman is at home.

it's funny to me that folks would naturally believe the story zimmerman is giving:

he follows a teenager after dark, in the rain...slowly creeping on him, to the point where he appears to be a creepy perv kidnap raper guy.

he calls 911 and is told to stop following, but doesnt listen.

gets out of his truck at some point to start following on foot.

then magically loses sight of trayvon, and goes back to his truck...

and magically, trayvon is hiding in some bushes near zimmermans truck

then supposedly at this point, trayvon launches from the bushes (which zimmerman didnt hear)

and lands one huge punch knocking fatso to the ground.

then trayvon supposedly is on top of him, crushing his skull to the ground

at this point, witneesses come into the fold (remember ITS NIGHT OUT)

some hear a boy crying for help...others hear zimmerman cry for help.

one witness see's trayvon on zimmerman, and zimmerman shoots trayvon

another see's zimmerman on top of trayvon, after trayvon's been shot.

but naturally, zimmerman was the innocent victim the ENTIRE TIME

it's not possible zimmerman is lying about the order of events, or the actual events themselves.

it's not possible, according to some of you that zimmerman caught up to trayvon in the truck.

got out and confronted trayvon, asking for ID

it's not possible that at this point, Zimmerman causes trayvon to be the frightened one

it's not possible that trayvon is STANDING HIS GROUND and fights to save HIS LIFE

nope, thats not possible because without a gun, you cant defend yourself.

only zimmerman with the gun, who was the creepo stalker, gets the benefit of the doubt

only zimmerman, the creepo stalker with a gun, has the opportunity to fight for and save his own life.

nope...trayvon, deserved to die...A) for wearing a hoodie in a white neighborhood and B) for not allowing some creepo stalker kidnap raper from snatching him.

nope, zimmerman is the innocent in all of this.

despite the fact that HE is the only with a violent past.

surely, the black one is the one who was the agressor from beginning to end.

naturally, it only makes the most sense to a white racists mind.

naturally - do I have that all pretty much summed up white racists?

there's no other possibly, naturally, right?

Sharpton/Jackson: you guys need to shut up and stop riding on Martin Luther King's shirt-tails. Every time there is an incident of any kind involving a black and any other race, you do your best to fan the flames of racism. You bring your people down with your brainless comments and racism against anyone that is not black. Stop acting like you represent black america: you DO NOT.

As far as this case, why would anyone listen to any celebrity about it either? They do not live in the real world. There were celebs on a show making comments when they obviously knew nothing about the details of the case. They need to stop being so indignant unless they know about the facts!

Zimmerman should have been arrested and questioned, period. Why he wasn't boggles the mind. Cops today are ALL disinterested, not just in Florida. Like many people today, they want to do nothing and collect a paycheck for it. How dare anyone want them to do their jobs?!

This story IS being overblown by the liberal media: nothing new. Only sheep go blindly over a cliff: again, nothing new. Think for yourselves, people, and wait for ALL the facts before commenting.

Can any of you self proclaimed lawyers out there please tell me the law that says you can't follow anyone or there can't be a block watch of any type???

Then let me know what law allows one to come up behind someone else and sucker punch them and beat their head into the ground (per witnesses), because it's considered fellony assault anywhere else... and you can use leathal force to stop it... So far of what I've been reading shows that the kid started the violence..

Stand your ground applies to Travon, NOT Zimmerman.

You do not get to hunt someone down with a loaded gun, then kill them because they tried to defend themselves.

Zimmerman became the predator, stalking his prey after authorities told him not to. Travon only knew that a dangerous man with a gun was following him. Travon acted in self defense, thus the stand your ground clause applies to Travon, NOT Zimmerman.

I guarantee that ANY of the Republicans on here, who are defending Zimmerman, would do the same thing Travon did if a man hunted them with a gun. How many times do we hear these same people argue that they need guns to protect themselves from armed assailants? How many times have you heard these same people claim that they would use their gun if a dangerous man threatened their life or the lives of their family? They would act no different than Travon, if put in the same situation.

Wet Willy "

'There are many black leaders who publicly claim that racism has not abated, but who privately are worried that it has because where are they going to be without racism

yeah, I dont think anyone has to worry about racism going away...and not having a job combatting it.

hey, have you gotten your "dont re-nig" sticker yet? racism, what racism in america?

Back East

Can any of you self proclaimed lawyers out there please tell me the law that says you can't follow anyone or there can't be a block watch of any type???

You do not get to take a loaded gun and stalk random people for no reason. But instead of just telling you that, I want you to do it.

Take a gun, load it, and start stalking people at night with it. Do it. Come on, tough guy. Prove us wrong. Start stalking random people with a loaded gun and see what happens. Start taking your gun towards women, and children... see what happens. Do it.

The only independant witness dscribes Martin attacking Zimmerman from behind as he was walking toward his vehicle.

That same witness said Martin was pounding Zimmerman's head into the concrete.

The witness then states he heard Zimmerman cry for help.

At this point Zimmerman can kill Martin in self defense. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman is a racist, or if he was following Martin earlier. We you are jumped from behind, and are having your head bashed into the concrete - you have a reasonable expectation of impending death.

The Fire Dept says Zimmerman stated "Why didn't anyone come to help?"

Perhaps because Martin appeared to be a thug in a hoodie who has no problem jumping people from behind and bashing their head into the concrete.

But the real reason there will be no charges against Zimmerman is that he claims Martin went for his gun while he was getting beaten. AND THERE ARE NO WITNESSES OR EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

This whole incident is very informative about the media and African Americans in the US.

There's the "White" "White Hispanic" "White Latino" racist description thing. Ever heard the media call Obama a "White Black"? Of course not.

Then there's the use of an old picture of Martin, instead of a current one. The calling him an A/B student, but no mention of 3 suspensions - the last one involving drugs - which is the reason he went to his Dad's girlfriend's place instead of his mom's - because he was suspended from school where he really lived.

There's the "bounty" on Martin. No mention in the media of how illegal that is.

And his mom is trying to trademark his name so she can make money off it.

Plus the "protests" that are really simply looting.

Now this article desperately trying to blame the victim. Yes, the victim. Martin started the fight. You don't get to attack someone from behind simply because they followed you (in a gated community that you really are only visiting) or asked you if you live there.

There is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything illegal. All the evidence shows Martin as the aggressor. You might not like to hear that, but you have to ask yourself why. You are going against all the evidence. The same evidence that the FBI, local police, Justice Dept. and prosecutor all looked at.

AND NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY CHARGES THAT THEY THINK HAVE ANY CHANCE OF GETTING A CONVICTION ON.

Back East "Can any of you self proclaimed lawyers out there please tell me the law that says you can't follow anyone or there can't be a block watch of any type???"

stalking is legal? do we want to let pervs stalk little kids (he was 17)...im just asking?

"Then let me know what law allows one to come up behind someone else and sucker punch them and beat their head into the ground (per witnesses)"

and witnesses ALWAYS tell the truth? I havent read a single article that claims a witness SAW the attack of trayvon, only the ensuing tangle.

"because it's considered fellony assault anywhere else... and you can use leathal force to stop it... So far of what I've been reading shows that the kid started the violence.."

and so far from what i've read, I have no reason to believe the ONE eye witness, who may be a friend of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman are telling the truth.

I mean, he followed a kid in a hoodie, for what reason again?

So, tell you what...go find a woman, alone at night...and follow her and find out if she maces you when you get too close.

let me know who's going to be seen as the "agressor" in that scenario when cops show up.

good luck.

Sarah and the rest.

I've posted several times (too many for one story) on this story attempting to introduce the facts as they are presented and not "facts" that are introduced by many from speculators and those with vivid imaginations that conjure events as they wish them to be.

Accordingly, I hope this will be my last post on this story because dialogue with many posters is like trying to reason with a block of wood. That said, I will take my leave with the, thus far, indisputable facts, which are:

Fact: This altercation involved Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman and resulted in the death of Travyon Martin.

Fact: The police at the scene after examining the evidence and questioning the available witnesses determined that George Zimmerman acted reasonably and was not placed under arrest.

Fact: An independent investigation is underway to determine if the police acted properly and what, if any, further action is necessary. Put simply, to determine if the findings should be presented to a grand jury and should George Zimmerman stand trial.

There will always be the opinionated bunch that will insist that the police are incompetent, racist, or perhaps both. I believe for them any verdict that is contrary to their opinions will likewise be met with an irrational anger fueling their justification for civil unrest. It is they that are the true racists.

How did this Murder "Take on a Life of it's Own"?

Why does Race always come into place in white upon black murders---Yes, I am very sad that Trayvon Martin Died. Very sad.

I'm tired of hearing about Racism as an excuse for Murder---Thousands get murdered in this country (all races), and 99 per cent of the time, the focus is not on the color of the skin. Al Sharpton/Rev. Jesse Jackson seem to show Americans that nothing has changed in the world of being African American. We have a first Black President. Those 2 want to keep the Culture down, so they can keep the madness brewing 24/7 for how many more years?

I hope Zimmerman gets his due; that we find out the exact details of this needless murder. My sympathies to the Martin Family---Al Sharpton/Rev.Jesse Jackson are using them as pawns to all Americans.

@Indie: Are you threatening somebody?! (online,LOL!)

I think ..."Amanda"... is hilarious....!

She is on here stating all kinds of things about law... she even states that she knows for a "fact"... this and that... and she has..."everything"... solved in her mind... just from what has been put online through the so-called..."media".... and from behind her keyboard.... WOW...!

So... my big question is this... If..."Amanda"... is soooooo smart... if she is sooooooo knowlegable.... and she is soooooooo gifted as to sit here and solve the whole thing... why hasn't the FBI, and the Department of Justice knocked on her door for help....???????

Care to answer these questions there ... "Amanda"...? Maybe you can also tell us the truth in the JFK assassination... and maybe solve the Bermuda triangle mystery... and and and also tell us what happened to the purple M&M's...????

We are all waiting anxiously ..."Amanda"...

Tortscot,

While I admit I was being a bit tounge in cheek, here are the Nebarska requirements:

Examples of harassing behavior are stalking, following, detaining or repeated phone calls. For a harassment order to be issued by the Court, you need to prove to the Court that these behaviors frightened you.

For a domestic abuse protection order to be issued by the Court, you must show that your abuser was physically violent to you or threatened you with physical violence and the threat placed you in fear.

Police reports are not required but would help. Once you were served with my restraining order you would of course have the option to fight it by requesting a hearing. Basically I could say I saw you following me on these dates and was frightened by you.

@Hawaii2

Al Sharpton/Rev. Jesse Jackson seem to show Americans that nothing has changed in the world of being African American.

What a well put statement!! I'm black and have seen very little change since I have been around. I was born in the 60's....... How SAD is your comment on the state of American society...... Or did you not expect it to change.....

The "independent witness", DID NOT see who hit who first.

They saw Zimmerman and Martin scuffling/fighting, AFTER it had already started.

If I thought my life was in danger from an armed stalker(like Trayton probably saw Zimmerman as), my adrenalin would have given me the energy to try and incapacitate/bash my assailants head on the ground.

Zimmerman was not a little weakling(although he seems like a coward/weirdo for following people around while armed).

If he was confident enough to try and play hero/security guard, he should have known what his physical capabilities were, and STAYED IN HIS CAR.

Wet Willy: Your facts are wrong. The police did not find that Zimmerman acted reasonably, they didn't even believe his story. The lead investigator at the scene (he's a police detective) determined that the juvenile stalker Zimmerman did not act reasonably in the shooting of the unarmed Tayvon; instead this police officer found Zimmerman's account was not credible and that there was probable cause to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with "Manslaughter", and it was the State's Attorney (now stepped down) who claimed there was not enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. Get it? The police investigating the scene arrested Zimmerman but he was not charged because of the State's Attorney (and who knows, maybe even Zimmerman's retired Judge of a father may have had something to do with the State's Attorney making that ridiculous call). So stop saying the police on the scene found Zimmerman justified. The man's guilty of more than manslaughter- he premeditated the act the moment he called Tayvon an "as_hole" and vowed to not let him get away.

AC said:

I think ..."Amanda"... is hilarious....!

She is on here stating all kinds of things about law... she even states that she knows for a "fact"... this and that... and she has..."everything"... solved in her mind... just from what has been put online through the so-called..."media".... and from behind her keyboard.... WOW...!

Everything I posted in my replies at 4.37,4.40, and 4.59 is from the partial police report that has been released and is available online and from the Florida gun licensing website.

The line from post 4.53 specifically states that the police wrote on the police report that they, at the time, considered this 'Homicide-negligent manslaughter-unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.' Their words, not mine.

Google 'martinpolicereport . pdf' and have a look for yourself.

The majority of what I posted in 4.53 and 4.63 is my attempts at at thinking through the events as Zimmerman has described them, then comparing it with the statement made by officers in the above-referenced police report. Certain things just don't add up, not for me.

I have not solved anything, nor have I claimed to. In fact, I'll repost my closing statement here. THIS is what I believe:

In the end however it's not what I believe or what you believe, what Al Sharpton believes or even President Obama believes-- whether a court finds him guilty or not, eventually Death the Great Equalizer is going to come for him and it will be a moot point. And if there is a God and He does judge you after you're dead, then Zimmerman will, eventually get whatever he deserves and that is between his God and Him.

Personally I believe in reincarnation and I hope he comes back as a roach.

I think it is interesting that some folks will side with Zimmeramn no matter what. It was fine when things were said about the boy he killed..but it changes as soon as the shoe is on the other foot. He would seem that he is a hot head....and also used to getting away with crime....what htis comes down to is that he is the one who was folowing the boy, not the other way around....if anyone had the right to defend himself it was the boy..he was the one being followed for no reason..

EXACTLY ivan! When I was a kid, I too was suspended from school. That did not translate into a life of crime any more than it did for Trayvon. If they are going to make a big deal out of Trayvon being suspended, they better expect Zimmerman's past to be brought into play. Especially that Zimmerman's father is allegedly, a retired judge.

Go watch The View, they already talked about everything that negates your posts.

Including the part where they keep showing photos of Trayvon Martin as a child to gain Public Sympathy and not his actual size as a 17 year old Football Player (think about that as trained violence), ever been bused into someone else's Homegame and they lose, how fast can you run to avoid a deadly mob beat down. And to get more against Zimmerman for those that are paying attention photos of him looking like a Prison convict wearing a orange prison jumper.

And if you think that someone unarmed age 10 to 17 cannot kill someone, all I would have to say is KONY 2012 and the Children Soldiers of Africa. If you want I can show you how to kill someone with an aluminium can or bottle (glass or plastic).

Knowing from experience about Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency, Counter Insurgency Warfare) I know how Psychological Warfare (News Media) is used to gain Local, National, International Support for perceived Injustices, we then use these perceived Injustices to form riots, demonstrations, strikes, etc. to cause violent enemy Government reactions, this causes more injustices, eventually we have started a Civil War to overthrow that enemy Government, and we did not have to do anything violent ourselves. You always give the News Media pictures of little children NEVER their current Photos as Combatant young adults or adults. Afghanistan Combatant average age 10 and up, same with Sudan. Inside Al Qaeda, http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/inside-al-qaeda.html

And before you say irrelevant, my Second Career was Teaching mostly at Inner City Combat Zone Schools after Retirement and being continually Recalled to Active Duty ruined my Teaching Career. When I was teaching at Inner City Schools that was before metal detectors, searches and pat downs. So lets talk about Pot, Marijuana, in relation to when I was attached to US Federal Law Enforcement, and relevance as currently; ever since more of the Marijuana has been confiscated more of the Drug Dealers started to lace the marijuana with other things to give it more "kick" using smaller quantities available, things like Formaldehyde, arsenic, other stronger drugs, cocaine, chrystal meth, etc.. When I was attached to US Federal Law Enforcement the marijuana was laced with "Angel Dust", if you ever saw ten cops attempting to arrest someone on Angel Dust you would be laughing your arse off, one wimp tossing cops like they were nothing. I also used to teach women to defend themselves using unarmed Deadly Force if necessary including "snatching a firearm" from an attacker.

Everyone claiming that Zimmerman's height and weight. Ever seen an obese person (Zimmerman) chasing after a High School Football Player (Martin)? Visualize that.

If you want to try, convict and lynch Zimmerman in the Court of Public Opinion, I want all the Proof, Evidence made Public, especially the Courts Ordering the Unsealing of any or all Juvenile Records for Martin, that the Law Enforcement cannot even admit they have until after the Court Order(s). As far as "irrelevant", not if you are saying this is a Homicide Case. Even by saying "Killer", "Murder", etc. anyone saying that has already tried, convicted, and lynched Zimmerman, just like the Salem Witch Trials.

When this first became Public, the First thing I wanted to know is Why was Martin suspended from School and many said "Irrelevant", like I said before, not if you are saying this is a Homicide Case.

The other information, evidence, needed, the Police Interrogations Transcripts of Zimmerman with the Lie Detector Results that indicated he was innocent, detailed "as built" maps of the area, addresses of all witnesses (plotted on map), parents address (plotted on map), route taken by Martin (plotted on map), vehicle, location and route of Zimmerman (plotted on map), ANY Surveillance Videos from that area for months including from the store that Martin bought the Skittles and Ice Tea and School, All Forensic Evidence, Martin's Toxicology Reports, ME Reports, any Internal Affairs Records, weather reports and light readings (for entire area), who Martin got the drugs from and how Martin got the money for the drugs, recorded video interviews of everyone that knew Martin and Zimmerman (note: computer software to detect evasions), Law Enforcement Records of Gang Related Activities in the Area, One year of previous Law Enforcement Records, Records of anything (Law Enforcement, Financial Records, Medical, etc.) including Sealed Juvenile Records wherever Martin or Zimmerman lived at, Crime Reports for the Area, etc..

By doing all this, Court of Public Opinion, this becomes an Automatic Exoneration in a Court of Law on Technicalities, as Zimmerman can no longer get a "Fair and Just" Trial with an unbiased "Jury of His Peers". So by going Public, Martin's Parents f**ked up. This is also going to make it almost impossible for the Prosecutor, Law Enforcement to prove Zimmerman guilty of anything "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt", as known that any evidence after this becoming Public may be false, arses wanting their 15 minutes of fame submitting false testimony or evidence. Previously when I was Law Enforcement we knew that the suspect was guilty; but, due that false testimony, or evidence the whole case was thrown out and everything becoming "tainted" so the accused walked.

Sure go walk into a Financial Institution that was recently robbed wearing a hat, hoodie, etc. and see what happens. Already stated that numerous burgularies committed in that neighborhood, and don't say that burgularies are not or do not turn violent (Rape, Murder, etc.).

Most of you NEED to go to Basic Law School to get beaten into your heads to learn: False Arrest, Due Process of Law, Rules of Law, Conviction Requirements, Basic Rules of Evidence, False Imprisonment, Innocent until proven Guilty "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt", Detentions, Citizen's Arrest, Gated Community Rules and Charters, Neighborhood Watches, Firearms Ownership (US Supreme Court Ruling), etc..

If it was reported to Zimmerman by most of the Homeowners of the Gated Community in the area that their homes were burglarized by Black Teenagers as seen by their neighbors, does that mean that Zimmerman MUST Report to the Police that White Teenagers were burglarizing the Neighborhood. Of course he would have numerous calls to the Police Reporting suspects if he was a Community Watch and not just sleeping in his car.

That is your logic.

Just Someone-2674443 - Truth #1: Mr. Zimmerman shot Trayvon. Period.

Speculation. Can you prove that Zimmerman had control of the firearm and Martin did not take it away, and Zimmerman turned the firearm barrel on Martin and Martin pulled the trigger. If they washed Martin's corpse without taking a Gun Shot Residue of his hands, they f**ked up. There are Legal Precedents of previous Court Cases of that, as well as previously happened with Police Officers. In armed versus unarmed Combat there is the thing called "Closing Distance", and "Stunning" someone before they can even draw or fire their firearm.

Just Someone-2674443 - Zimmerman has a track record for snooping and a truly shocking number of calls about "suspicious activities" by black males), and whether he was within his rights as a neighborhood watchperson, property owner, or what-have-you to carry a gun and use it when he felt threatened.

So if it was a large number of black males that were in a Gated Community that they were not even residents of, that means Zimmerman MUST report that white males were doing "suspicious activities", what this means is that he was doing his JOB instead of being asleep in his car. His neighbors previously reported seeing the large numbers of previous burglaries being done by black teenagers (seen by neighbors leaving the homes that they did not live at).

Just Someone-2674443 - Truth #2: No matter what the esteemed Reverend Al Sharpton would have you believe, no part of this is about killing the reputation of the deceased. I CAN see the point in not speaking ill of the dead as a general statement of truth, BUT applying a goose-and-gander principle to the whole thing means that both parties reputations need to be out there in order for justice to be done. If anything, the commentary along that theme, specifically that which the Reverend finds so objectionable, is an indictment of the culture we live in, where it has become mainstream to both think that hoodies are gang apparel and think that they are not. I would ask anyone who believes otherwise to first explain why hoodies worn with the hoods up were banned at political rallies in the '08 election, and second explain how Trayvon Martin in particular managed to get suspended for drug residues in his book bag.

Laws pertaining to Sealed Juvenille Records, unless specifically Court Ordered to be Unsealed. In Homicide Cases almost everything can be evidence.

That hoodie thing, like I said before:

Sure go walk into a Financial Institution that was recently robbed wearing a hat, hoodie, etc. and see what happens. Already stated that numerous burgularies committed in that neighborhood, and don't say that burgularies are not or do not turn violent (Rape, Murder, etc.).

Truth #3: The good Reverend Sharpton tipped his hand when he allowed the discussion to be centered on the "killing of a young man's reputation" (I apologize profusely if that is not a verbatim quote). Reverend Sharpton has demonstrated an ability to argue and debate an issue from virtually any stance, any position, IMHO, so why this aspect of this case? Simple. No one is willing to argue that George Zimmerman is the villain in this case, so it's an easy one. In order to serve Reverend Sharpton's agenda, Trayvon Martin CANNOT be allowed to be seen as anything but a martyred saint. The facts of the case, as stated above, make the trial itself a dice roll and a perfect opportunity for Reverend Sharpton to see if the very mention of his name, let alone whatever petitions, marches, etc. he could organize--if even the thought of that has the same effect on society that the burning crosses of a thankfully bygone era had. Reverend Sharpton has all but declared in this that he wants the entire state of Florida to be asking just how severe a punishment George Zimmerman needs to go through in order to pacify the masses, some of whom would sign the petition without caring if it was about this case or nominating Reverend Sharpton for the papacy. To think I used to respect Mr. Sharpton......

Mr. Sharpton would be broke as a joke, as in bankrupt, if he did not incite Racism. Look how many times he made a fool of himself after Due Process of Law found those he accused of racist motived crimes not guilty. If Mr. Sharpton did that crap to anyone I know and they were proven not guilty, I would have his arse Sued for everything he has (including assets signed over to his relatives) or will ever have (garnishment) and the Lawyers that I know would have him declared in Court as a Flight Risk (No Bail) and Suicide Risk so he would be strapped down with 24/7 monitoring in isolation detention in a Psych Ward until the Trial.

@ Indyparty.... I didn't think you could tell me the law.... because you know there isn't one so you'r all wet behind the ears.. There are block watches all over the country where people have a permit to carry concealed. It's legal. And it's been proven that Zimmerman was back at his car when he was sucker punched and knocked to the ground. And to say that Zimmerman was hunting just shows how wacked you are. Just stick to the facts and perhaps you'll learn something. And BTW, stand your ground does not mean you can jump someone and start the violence.

add to post#4.86.

I would also have Mr. Sharpton's Church Title of Reverend removed thru petitions of the Courts, and Lawyers. An embarrassment to the Church that granted him that title, as abused to state his personal not Church views or values. Even Churches hate to have their image tarnished with his Racism proven in US Courts to be wrong in previous Court Trials of those he accused.

American Lobo,

Would you mind explaining why any of those actions by Zimmerman justify his being attacked from behind and having his head slammed into the sidewalk? Zimmerman should have listened to the advice of the dispatcher and stayed in his vehicle, but as soon as Zimmerman turned his back on Trayvon and started back toward his vehicle, Trayvon should have left. Trayvon would still be alive today if he had not sucker punched Zimmerman. And do you really think Trayvon would have attacked Zimmerman if Z had brandished his weapon? It's possible Trayvon thought he could disarm Zimmerman but if I knew someone was armed, I certainly wouldn't take the chance and attack him. My guess is Zimmerman said something as he was walking away, maybe even used a racial epithet, and Trayvon attacked him because he felt "dissed."

It seem as if George Zimmerman is a criminal justice major with a criminal background, who knows how to work the system to his advantage. Add the fact that his daddy is a retired judge and his mommy worked in the court system makes him nearly untouchable. He assaulted a police officer and magically this felony became a misdemeanor. Domestic abuse get cancelled out by equal restraining order, speeding tickets disappear, and now no charge in the shooting death of an unarmed teen. Seems as if this dude could kill the savior and get away with it.

Since the anger management did not work, and since he still has his gun, in a state that allows him to chase and kill whomever he says he feels threatened by......stay tuned.

Mrperryrice 4.82

OK, one more post. No, your facts are distorted because you've already decided you know what went on and no other outcome would be acceptable. I purposely omitted the dissenting officer because I didn't feel it necessary. Why? Because it's not at all uncommon to have dissenting opinions between officers during an investigation, which is why it gets pushed up to the states attorney for a decision.

Since your leveling accusations about Zimmerman getting some kind of preferential treatment, let me say that Zimmerman asked for medical treatment but was denied it because he was taken to police headquarters for questioning. It was only after several hours there did he finally get medical treatment.

I believe there was an accompanying bit about Trayvon having his knapsack searched by a school security official who uncovered numerous pieces of women's jewelry along with a large flat blade screwdriver that the security official considered to be a burglary tool. School officials, however, gave Trayvon a pass on that incident. Just one more indication that Trayvon was anything but the innocent 13 year old in the picture the media uses of him.

Why can't everyone just let the investigation follow its course to its logical conclusion?

@David475776:

Well! I must say that I am impressed with your debating skills in this, however, if you really read my post for content, you would know that you misconstrued my first "truth" to suggest that I knew what was even going on at that time and place. Had you read that one through, you would have seen that I was making the same point that you did, albeit less eloquently, that the facts are NOT out here for all to see. The interpretation of the facts is for the courts. That's right, the facts. I did not mean to claim that I knew whether the shooting was accidental or not, self-defense, or whatever. I cannot now attest to having such facts. You were right to call me on that implication. I wish I could state in my own defense that I was trying to interpret all the commentary and articles that came out about this, but those are not the facts that the investigators uncovered per se. If I am hearing you correctly, then you are stating that almost a month of media coverage is ALL speculation. You are stating that one responding officer's reccommendation of a manslaughter charge is a total flight of fancy. This is not the kind of thing that I would have expected from someone who is so quick to defend the legal system and try to patiently explain the presumption of innocence to everyone else.

If you would please, reread my earlier post and see if you were not in fact preaching to the choir with your criticism of truth #1.

Wet Willy said:

Since your leveling accusations about Zimmerman getting some kind of preferential treatment, let me say that Zimmerman asked for medical treatment but was denied it because he was taken to police headquarters for questioning. It was only after several hours there did he finally get medical treatment.

Not according to the report submitted by Officer Timothy Smith, the first officer on the scene:

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.

The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.

Yeah, yeah, charges but no convictions. Now lets do like the big media does, see the below and make up your own mind before the moderator kicks my a$$ off. There are two standards, you know.

I think we’ve all
been “hoodie” winked... It’s the other Trayvon they don’t want you to
know.

he was a street thug, a bully, used & sold
drugs, was attached to a gang...

Bless his heart !

The "Lame" street
media...Playing us like a cheap violin...odd the race thing
is

made a BIG deal on election year !!

Use your own
judgment.

Arkius wrote: “Amanda, what color is the sun in your world?”

And Amanda replied, “Excuse me? I don't understand the purpose behind that question.”

Amanda, there are a lot of things you don’t understand; in this case it was the subtly of sarcasm.

The purpose behind the question? Your answers are eccentric and other worldly. So I was asking, sarcastically, about your planet, apparently, you’re also just a little dense.

Amanda it is clear to me that you’ve read my comments, but it is also clear that you’ve failed to reason with them, and also, you haven’t availed yourself to all the existing facts. Try accessing the Sanford Herald online archive. Or calling for more information

Amanda wrote: “If Martin began 'slamming Mr. Zimmerman's head against a curb' and at that point Zimmerman pulled his gun and 'shot and killed Mr. Martin', then Martin's body would have been found on the sidewalk or road.” Clearly, you have a limited understanding of the uses of curbing.

In America, curbing is often used to edge the sides of either concrete sidewalk, or other types of walkway. Sometimes, in a park or rural setting, the curbing will run in the middle of grassy areas and berms. Curbs may also enclose wood chips, dirt, sand, pebbles, stones or something called bean clay. The next time you visit the United States you might want to further investigate this marvelous American experience.

Amanda also wrote: “The police report says Trayvon Martin is 6'00" and 160 pounds. George Zimmerman is 5'09" and no weight is given.” Amanda, your grasp on “the available facts” seems to be slipping away from you. Everyone knows that Mr. Martin is 6’ 3” and weighs between 180 and 200 lbs., it’s been all over the news papers here in the states, also, Mr. Zimmerman’s weigh is given as 250lbs. Both of these facts are in the official police report that has been published on the Internet in PDF. I’m sure there is a copy available in your country. Go find it and check it out.

Next, Amanda wrote: “I do not see a way for Martin's body to have made it from the roadway to the grassy/wooded area without the police having noticed drag marks or blood on the sidewalk or curb as you postulate.” Please see my above explanation of alternate types of curbing in the United States. Now, reason with that data, and what you wrote, and a whole new world will open up for you. You will be exposed to a number of things that you haven’t even considered before. When you’ve finished, go back and re-read my comments to Pulp-fiction, and I’m sure you’ll see them in a whole new light.

Have fun.

Arkius:

I was being deliberately dense because I didn't want you to get in trouble on Newsvine for personal attacks. And I do live here in the States, have never left, and couldn't leave even if I wanted to so that's the end of that discussion. I'm going to address what you wrote instead of your rudeness.

Try accessing the Sanford Herald Online

And you try doing a search for martinpolicereport (dot) com. I'm not getting my information from news sources, which are biased because humans have opinions when they write news. I'm going off the police report and FL government documents.

Everyone knows that Mr. Martin is 6’ 3” and weighs between 180 and 200 lbs., it’s been all over the news papers here in the states, also, Mr. Zimmerman’s weigh is given as 250lbs. Both of these facts are in the official police report that has been published on the Internet in PDF.

I have the police report sitting in front of me--I printed it out so I could check facts and make no mistakes.

Name: Martin, Trayvon Benjamin R/S: B/M, DOB 2/5/1995 Offense Indicator 1, Adult/Juvenile: J, Hgt: 600, Wgt: 160, Hair: black, Eyes: brow Person type: victim-juvenile, City of birth: Miami, Place of birth: FL.

Name: Zimmerman, George Michael, R/S:W/M, DOB: 10/5/1983 Offense Indicator: 1, Adult/Juvenile: A, Hgt: 509 Wgt: Hair: Brow Eyes: Brow DL State: FL Person Type: Subject

In America, curbing is often used to edge the sides of either concrete sidewalk, or other types of walkway. Sometimes, in a park or rural setting, the curbing will run in the middle of grassy areas and berms. Curbs may also enclose wood chips, dirt, sand, pebbles, stones or something called bean clay. The next time you visit the United States you might want to further investigate this marvelous American experience.

And none of what you said applies. Go to Google Maps. Type in the addresses that the Sanford PD responded to calls from according to police reports 1111 Retreat View Cir, Sanford FL; 1231 Twin Trees Lane, Sanford FL; 2821 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, FL. According to the maps when you zoom in on the satellite version of the map, there is a concrete walkway/sidewalk between the condo complexes. that the back of the buildings face, while the front of those buildings faces the roads. If Martin had slammed Zimmerman's head into that sidewalk it wasn't near his truck, as his truck would have had to be parked along either Twin Trees Ln or Retreat View Circle.

And one more thing: According to the police report dispatch first sent officers on the way at 1917 hours (7:17 for those unfamiliar with nonmilitary time.) According to the police report, Paramedic Brady recorded Trayvon Matrtin's time of death at 1930. That's 7:30, only 13 minutes after Zimmerman placed the first call about a suspicious individual, and this was after two police officers tried unsucessfully to revive Trayvon. Police officers cannot declare a person dead, a medical professional has to do it, so they couldn't declare Trayvon dead until a paramedic got there and tried resuscitation techniques. The police report also states that Trayvon was 'laying face down' with his hands 'underneath his body' and 911 logs show only a 1 minute window between Martin's call stopping and the first citizen 911 call about hearing a gun shot.

So Zimmerman chased Trayvon a short distance, then gave up and headed back to his truck, at which time Martin doubled back, hid behind a large bush, then jumped him from behind, punched him and broke his nose, slammed his head on the sidewalk a few times, turned and started running, at which time Zimmerman gave chase and shot him (only way to explain why they ended up in a grassy/wooded area nowhere near Zimmerman's truck, then calmly reholstered his gun, called 911 so and directed dispatch to have the officers call him once they got to the main entrance to the complexso he could give them directions on how to find him.

And all that happened in 13 minutes, with only a 1 minute gap in between George hanging up with the 911 dispatcher and the first citizen report of a gun fired.

I'm sorry, I'm still not buying it.

And in any case, it doesn't matter what you or I believe; its what the investigation will turn up and so far, NOT paying attention to the news stories and ONLY reading the police report and Florida statues, looking at satellite maps and street views of the area, I can't see that the police report matches Zimmerman's story at all.

We'll just have to see.

Wait one minute, you wrote: "The police report also states that Trayvon was 'laying face down' with his hands 'underneath his body' and 911 logs show only a 1 minute window between Martin's call stopping and the first citizen 911 call about hearing a gun shot."

Why is there a "1 minute window between MARTIN'S call stopping and the first citizen 911 call"? Martin made a call to 911?

arkius, you give even racist, shameless tea bagging republicans a bad name. You're a prime example why we NEED a Dept of Education

Arkius

I have to agree with you. The circus this has become is disgraceful and fed by those whose only interest is preserving or actually resurrecting thier own relivance. The double standards apply are almost laughable. The same people screaming about what accusations may have been made about the shooter in the past would be screaming bloody murder if one of theirs was on trail for rape or some other serious crime and the Judge let testimony of past arrests for the same thing be entered into evidence. To say nothing of allowing testimony of alligations made in the past for other offenses. Funny how the things they claim are done to them, is exactly what they want to do to others. Let the law figure it out. Trust me with this administration, if the FBI can find the smallest excuse Zimmerman would be in jail. The profiling claims are also non believable because the neighborhood was mixed black, hispanic and white, though neither of the two involved in this was white or non-hispanic.

Prober, you are a prime example of why siblings shouldn't marry.

Shaking my head, this tragedy brings out the worst and the best in people.

What I find amusing, objectionable, disgusting, etc, etc, is how people are making decisions with: Little or no information, not using their critical thinking skills to reason with the information they do have, having a herd mentality. Some people and I won't name names here, just don't seem to get it.

I try to cajole, use sarcasm, point out the differences between knowledge and opinion and I might as well be talking to myself in a dark room. These people are brain dead.

The only one who had a hope in hell was Amanda, but I couldn't get her to stop making judgments, and just stick to reasoning with the facts.

It is a shame, all these people thinking that their intuition trumps all others; it has become farce.

Everyone sees racism before having all the facts. One guy says "coon" on the record, in a southern state, and tragedy becomes comedy.

I mention Tennessee Williams and the cliquish, Zorro-like "Community", collapse my comment. No reason, no discussion. It's just off to the Gulag Arkius.

Somewhere Stalin is smiling.

This is the contemporary mindset.

Too much sarcasm and you've got to go.

Your opinion is too different, and you've got to go.

You walk in the wrong neighborhood, and you've got to go.

You shoot an ill-mannered punk with a chip on his shoulder, and you've got to go.

You try and change the debate, and you've got to go.

Your tongue is too sharp, and you've got to go.

You tell some moron, he's a moron, and you've got to go.

You go tit-for-tat with a moron, and you've got to go.

The Community is Watching……….do you get the f……irony?

Probably not.

Somewhere Stalin is smiling.

Prober, here's my challenge: Scroll up. Look for a poster named PulP-fiction.

Look for his post of:#4.36 - Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:40 AM EDT.

How about you and I debate the merits of PulP-fictions comments, using nothing but straight up argument. No name calling, no sarcasm, nothing but argumentation: If-then arguments, Inductive arguements, deductive arguments.

You can't have someone help you, write for you (I've been doing this for 35 years, I'll spot it right away, and you'll be disqualified and lose). And no one standing in for you.

Let's see if you have the intellectual balls to take me on, punk.

there's no point, arkius. Amanda responded to everything you asserted in your "uses of curbing" post (super interesting btw), and yet you claim everything she said is worthless because she accidentally transposed Zimmerman and Martin's names. there was only 1 minute between the end of Zimmerman's call and the gunshot. just makes one question the accuracy of Zimmerman's attack/fight story, considering how fast it was that he claimed he had no choice but to kill Trayvon.

you're the one who needs to stick to reasoning with the facts, as Amanda does above. you've listed no sources for any of your info. and you're right, you really might as well be talking to yourself in a dark room. most people would probably prefer it.

I have never smoked pot nor been caught speeding, been involved in domestic violence, drank underage or assualted a police officer

Congratulations! I will certain inform the committee that awards the Nobel Peace Prize.

Sarah and others on here,

Just because someone out weighs you by 40lbs DOESN'T mean he can beat you at hand-to-hand combat. Zimmerman was probably not a very good fighter and possibly weak. That is why he had a gun. I have seen scrawny men in the gym lift way more than I can and I am over 200lbs. Trayvon, being from the culture he is from was probably more of a skilled fighter. I heard he was 6'3" and a football player-- probably pretty strong for his size.

alan, what possible reason did Trayvon have to "jump" zimmerass?

There is none!

Yes I am so sick of Al Sharpton coming out on these issues. He makes the fight for inequality on race bs when ever he gets involved. He does things without any respect for the cause and for only self benefit. Wish we had some real respectable civil rights leaders, al sharpton and jesses jackson are jokes on this issue everyone that has any brains knows they are corrupt in a truly negative fashion.

most likely no convictions considering his daddy was a judge.

That's cute... a non-black "American" giving the African-American community unsolicited and worthless advice. Black ppl have been had a problem with Al Sharpton and Jesse and we've been had a problem with the media. Why don't you come up with some advice for White Americans or whoever it is you identify with?

If Al not so Sharten wants to help his race, he needs to take a page out of Martin Luther Kings book. Talk about peace and getting along. Not Hate Whitey!