I dunno. I think they're both healing. This is one more step toward repairing their broken lives.

I mean both Yates. Andrea wasn't always a monster... she still may have a future.

considering every prison has church services available every sunday, just save time and trouble and put her in prison.

@RwEvans

What if the church in the prison is a demomination that teaches things she does not believe? Not every church is the same you know. A one-size-fits-all church service may not cut it for everyone wanting to pursue spirituality in their lives.

Fascinating! It was religious teachings that made her murder her five children, and now, the lawyer wants her to go back to the same place where those teachings are preached? That would be the same as letting an imprisoned drug user go out and get the drugs that got him, or her, into that position in the first place. Nuts!

This is a reversal of the usual "imprisoned, found religion" story. She went in blaming her love of god and wants out by saying, "I'm so over him...oh, he's alright; but nothing to go crazy over; I promise." As for the particular services available not teaching what she believes: can they really teach her anything worse than killing five children?! If it's not her cup of tea, pour the boiling beverage in her lap and tell her to f*ck off.

Did I read the article right when it mentioned her attorney believes she should be released and allowed to get a job and move on with her life?????? ALL people who are convicted by reason on insanity SHOULD never be let out or if the convict wants to be released then they should then have to stand trial for the crimes they committed and got off on. It sounds like the ex husband is in need of some padded room help too!!!

@Will

What about other prisoners who are of different religions? Should they get the same special treatment? Would you be saying the same sort of thing for muslim or jewish prisoners?

Unfortunately, she should probably get the pass to go.

I say "unfortunately" because while she's technically "not guilty", in my opinion she should be.

Then again, my definition of "uncontrollably insane" is different from the court's...and that's probably a good thing, since I'm not a psychiatrist. The bad thing is that the murderer of five children may get the opportunity to pursue her spiritual needs.

Right or wrong, something about that doesn't sit right with me.

You're right, it is a good thing you're not a shrink. Of course, if you were, you'd know better. I find it interesting that no one on here has any frigging idea about mental illness and psychotic breaks. Whatever, I hope no one in your family ever has a serious mental illness.

IndyMary,

Thanks for your respectful reply...not...

And while I'm at it, I'll share something with you: yes, someone in my family suffers from mental illness. Many families have at least one, even if it's not diagnosed.

This person enjoys the love and support of everyone in the family.

Then again, this person also has never killed anyone...and never went on to request special privileges after the fact.

She didn't have a psychotic break. She had post-partum psychosis, and knew from her prior experience required diligent treatment. When you presume it isn't treatable and that the poor lil' woman was incapable of helping herself, you do a dis-service to the future sufferers of the condition, and to the medical field. Which, apparently, includes you?

So go ahead, Shrink IndyMary, educate me, by all means. Give me a frigging idea how learned helplessness is better than taking one's doctor's advice.

@Alverant

They are probably better off pulling official prison-sponsored church services entirely. If individual prisoners wish to exercise their religious beliefs, they could do so in private or in small supervised groups within the prison. However, telling someone that they have to go to the official prison Church service or nothing at all is not fair either.

OTOH, if they allowed each and every prisoner to leave jail on Sunday for two hours for religious services, I bet a lot of prisoners trying to escape would suddenly get religion.

If there was really a god, she couldn't have killed her kids in the first place because he would prevented it or brought them back alive or something. If he is real, who needs him if he can't or won't stop some crazy woman from drowning her kids??

I never understood the need to go to church to pray to a mythical being. If he allows people like her to walk the Earth, and people like Zimmerman, he isn't all that. So exactly why are people praying and believing if it isn't making any difference in their lives and bad things happen to good people like innocent children? All I see is the churches making money from the 10% tithes.

As far as I'm concerned, she can make her peace with god just as easily with a bible from her jail cell as should could in church. If she has a problem with using the chapel where she's incarcerated, she shouldn't have done what it was that put her there.

She isn't in jail. She was found not guilty by reason of insanity. She is in a state hospital for mental care. If anyone should be in jail for what happened, it should be her husband, who left her alone with their kids even though he knew she was suffering from postpartum psychosis and expressed concern for their safety in her care. This woman was suffering from a real mental illness. Her husband wasn't.

She waited until he left for work before "losing her mind". She was sane enough to lie in wait for the opportunity to murder those innocent little kids. Her husband was one strange freak, and I'm sorry to hear that he's trying his hand at "fatherhood" again. But that murderess planned those murders. She knew for years that she had emotional problems, and was responsible for getting help for herself. She did not have a sudden psychotic break from reality.

machspeedemom, no one said she suffered a 'sudden' psychotic break. If you read about the case you'll find she was ill for YEARS, that she'd been hospitalized at least twice because of serious mental health issues, that her doctors had told them she should NOT get pregnant again after psychotic episodes following the births of her 2nd and 3rd children. While I think the majority of people claiming an insanity defense are full of it, Andrea Yates was clearly insane.

Chris1407, you are making my case! She was ill for years. She also had years of lucid moments during which she did nothing to stop the baby-factory production line. She was a grown woman who could have taken responsibility for her body when she was warned about becoming pregnant again. I'm all too familiar with the case. She murdered them on June 20th, 2001. That was my due date for my first and ultimately only beloved child. It absolutely broke my heart.

I would feel sympathetic if she had suffered a sudden psychotic break. But for a woman sane enough to know she had to wait for the children's father to leave before carrying out her plan? Zip. Zero. Nada. None. Ever.

If you already think I'm heartless, you may be disgusted by this: she should have killed herself after killing them. Then, and only then, would I have believed she was insane at the time of the massacre.

machspeedemom, your comments demonstrate you don't understand what mental illness is. Being insane doesn't mean you can't plan your actions. It does mean your ideas and your perception of the world around you might not be coming from a place of sanity.

The death of those 5 innocent children was horrible, but I also have compassion for the very sick woman who killed them.

I wish I had no understanding of or experience with mental illness, but I have dealt with more than one family member suffering from more than one type of mental illness. That fact does not, of course, make me even remotely qualified to diagnose anyone, and I'm not attempting to do that. In this particular case, it's my opinion that she was reacting to stresses which I cannot even fathom (five little ones, very little support, the home-schooling, and the stringent demands she made upon herself). When I think of "insane" I think of people who push strangers off subway platforms in front of witnesses, as an example. I just don't buy the "sending them to God" excuse. She was already very aware of her unhealthy thought patterns, and I think she could have chosen to scream out, "Do not leave me alone with our babies." I just don't believe she was insane. That defense saved her life; I understand that people in authority believed it. But I'm of the opinion that her life was not worth saving after she massacred her children. I do, however, respect your right to spend your compassion however and on whomever you choose.

machspeeddemom, however many family members and their problems you have dealt with, your comments demonstrate your lack of any real understanding of mental illness. I do hope it never visits your life.

Ummm..... do the people involved in this case not understand that the last time Yates got uber religious people died? CHILDREN DIED?!?!?!

Regardless of what caused her to snap, she still snapped. And no one should feel safe if she is set free and allowed to indulge herself in the crutch she used to commit murder the last time. She should spend her life in the looney bin and be glad it isn't a 6x8 cage!!!

Seriously, if I had done what she did not only would I never feel entitled to ask for anything again, but I would be too devastated and ashamed to go back into the outside world.

Lolly1192, I hope the people making the decisions see it the way you do, and deny her every request. On the day of the massacre I said to my husband, "I hope for her sake that if she is insane she stays that way; if she comes to her senses, she'll surely go out of her mind from grief." I really expected her to take her own life once she realized what she had done. I was assuming she'd been insane at the time of the killings. Then I learned she had acknowledged, on several occasions over a few years' time, that she was aware of her own thought disturbances. Even people with that most dreadful of mental illnesses, schizophrenia, can sometimes be taught to ignore/work around those disturbances, but she chose to ignore her well-known, self-acknowledged, familiar symptoms, and go off her meds, and murder her babies. Now here she is, "all better" and wanting to plan outings. I would think better of her if she were too devastated and ashamed to continue living her life.

A Judge, paid by the tax payers, has to hear a request from a killer, brought by public defender (or the like), paid by the tax payers, so she came be at a hearing, security paid by the taxpayers, to determine whether she can attend church, although there are equivalent religious ceremonies in the prison. Sounds like she just wants to stretch her legs at tax payer expense.

Frivolous prisoner appeals should cost them another year on the sentence. There are so many of these that, overall, they cost us a fortune and the court's should have the power to penalize the prisoners for bring them.

Gil, she's not in prison.

No, being crazy is what got her into this mess. If she had been an atheist, eventually the craziness would have manifested itself in some way too. Despite examples to the contrary (like Catholicism), some religions actually make a person better - you know, when they actually apply sayings like, "Thou shalll not murder" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Life is often more complex than people paint it to be with their wide brushes.

I am afraid that some mom out there might be going through the disorder of post-partum depression or post-partum psychosis and, after reading all the talk about "craziness" on this thread, might become too discouraged to seek help. I don't feel the need to brow-beat anyone into seeing this my way, but I do feel the need to keep reiterating that these disorders are NOT the same as being "crazy". These didorders are temporary. They are very treatable. They can lead women to do unspeakable things ("crazy" things) if she isn't made aware of the symptoms and given the tools to ride out the storm of chemical-based chaos tormenting her mind. God-worshipping women and atheistic women are equally susceptible. Women who have had prior bouts of depression are much more so. Some are more difficult to treat, as is the case with depression. But there are many treatment options, and with proper medical advice, strict adherence to that medical advice, and determination to keep trying options until she and her physician find the one that works for her, a woman can make it through the storm and begin to enjoy her baby, as she probably expected to before being afflicted with PPD or PPP. Thinking that your baby would be better off dead is a symptom. It doesn't mean you have become a monster, it doesn't mean you're crazy, and it doesn't make you a bad mother. It just means that you need some additional medical attention. Your doctor has heard it all before; I promise you he or she cannot be shocked or horrified by anything you say. Just say it. Tell them you think you're "going crazy". It will help you to avoid doing something that does, indeed, look exactly like "crazy".

I agree, She can get video tapes and follow God in her hospitals and I know from a church member, they have preachers that go into those facilities to preach sermons there, its a excuse to see the outside, and she killed 5 innocent little children, it might have been a sickness, but God says, Thou shalt not kill, she killed not once but 5 times and God says let all the little children come onto me, she harmed 5 of Gods lil children, Nope she should not even see the light of day... she should be in a room with padded walls and a fluid diet since she likes water so much!!!

jypsie - you're right. When I was growing up my best friend's dad was a deacon in the Baptist church and he conducted a prison ministry. He went to the prison to minister to them. I'm sure some minister or deacon or someone could go visit her at the nut house to take care of her spiritual needs. What really rattles my cage is this is the inch Andrea Yates wants to take in order to progress a mile - freedom!!! Going to church is just a ticket to find her way out. Her getting on with her life and getting a job makes me want to puke. Maybe she wants to be a teacher's assistant or day care worker!! Her five kids got a life sentence and now she's looking for freedom. Maybe her lawyer will give her a job babysitting his kids.

Not a threat to anyone? She killed 5 children because she's off her rocker. Who says she won't do it again? Why does her ex still stay in touch with her? He's remarried and has a child. She's the last person I'd want around my new family. Never know when she's going to snap again. Let her stay in the psych hospital until her dying day.

I am appalled by the cruelty and viciousness of the monster who terrified and murdered five innocent children. She didn't even have the decency to do it in a way that would prevent them from knowing it was happening. Despicable.

I wouldn't imagine there'd be a lot of demand for the on-call rabies. All the foaming at the mouth would make a heck of a mess to be mopped up.......

Sorry, couldn't resist. :oD

Lol! Such a sad and tragic subject: a bit of levity is appreciated.

I agree, NyNy. I don't see why she cannot receive Spiritual guidance, teaching where she is now. Many Churches have outreach. Additionally, who would pay for these trips??? I find it hard to believe that someone so ill that would murder their own children is ready to rejoin society like it said here:

Parnham said he believes she is ready to leave the San Antonio hospital, get a job and live on her own.

I say this to all that believe she should get out of the hospital and attend church. That she was only insane at the time of killing her children.

Invite her to your house and let her babysit your children if you think she is all better now.

There is no such thing as god. Why do people go to church to pray to someone who doesn't exist? Good people are killed, bad people are killed, some are always sick, some never get sick, some people become rich, and others stay poor. If god isn't interceding on any of those peoples behalf, then what the hell does he do????????????????????????????

There is a God! And His son died for our sins on the cross. That opens up a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus left condensed all the rules into 2 things to follow before he went back to heaven...Love God and love others. Very simple. But man adds all sorts of other stuff claiming it to be God's rules. That is where the problems start. How to dress, where to live, how many pets to have, if any, what to eat...the list is endless if you really get into what some religions say is the way to live a religious life. Endless and impossible things to do. God will only bless you if you do such and such....NOT SO!

God does not make cookie cutter christians...they come in all colors, sizes, ages, rich, poor, healthy, sick, etc everyone different in some way. Each one has to read the bible and pray and discern what God's plan for their life is.

I can easily see why people choose not to believe in God!

What happened with the Yates is "Quiverful" movement where some families think that God wants them to have umpteen kids....that God will miraculously provide for every baby in that family. But Andrea had post partum depression plus other problems and they did not listen to the advice of the doctor.

Try being a christian in a muslim country and you will find out quickly what being a christian really is all about.

as to why God allows bad things...you want God to stop all bad UNTIL it comes to your front door....the choices you make may not be what God calls good, do you want Him to stop your parties, drinking, sex, getting ahead in life may mean cheating someone???? So then God gives free will.

Mental illness is a wicked mean thing, true enough. And you were right: she was, in fact, diagnosed with post-partum psychosis, which is the more severe form of post-partum depression. But the fact is

((and I'm begging any woman even remotely troubled to hear this)):

THERE IS HELP AVAILABLE, AND ABSOLUTELY NO SHAME IN SEEKING IT.

Shell-572470 mentioned that part of the illness is, almost inevitably, the patient going off the meds. Andrea Yates had done so, suffered relapses, and improved again upon compliance. She was one of the lucky ones who got treatment and education regarding her condition. She was not blind-sided by this condition in the weeks leading up to the massacre. Patients are taught that the moment you think you might be fine without the meds, you must resolve to be even more diligent about taking them. In other words, she had windows of opportunity and the experience to recognize symptoms. She was not an ignorant person, but she kept her mouth shut, filled the bathtub, and terrorized and murdered those children.

You can't be faulted if you suffer a hypoglycemic attack before learning that you have diabetes. But after the diagnosis, it is your responsibility to manage it. I'm sorry, but I'm going to shout again because nothing on this entire thread is as important as this:

POST-PARTUM DEPRESSION AND POST-PARTUM PSYCHOSIS ARE VERY TREATABLE. I'M BEGGING EVERY MOM WHO HAS HAD TROUBLING THOUGHTS TO SEEK HELP. THERE IS NO MORE SHAME IN IT THAN THERE IS IN BEING BURDENED WITH DIABETES.

As for Yates, I hope there is a god and he tells her, "YOU knew better. Go to Hell."

Strangely enough many people don't get religion until they eff someone else over big time...

You might be surprised to learn how helpless and frustrated and ultimately not in charge the loved ones are, and what they endure. I blame him for "leaving it to god" whether he impregnated his already struggling wife instead of getting snipped, like any real man would have done. I blame her for going along with that religious bullsh!t and producing more children, even after she was warned that the severity of the episodes often worsens with each subsequent pregnancy/birth. She should have put the needs of her first few children ahead of everything, and had no more children. Period. Even if it meant losing her strange, selfish, bible-thumping husband.

if she got out - SHE COULD PROCREATE AGAIN. Holy smokes, imagine that????