How do you claim self defense against someone you have accosted???

I see someone has gratuitously placed the copy of the police report for anybody who has an 8th-grade education to read, but here is a link to the rest of the data as well:

Zimmerman received first aid and was cleaned up at the scene.

AND, msnbc.com was NOT the first news organization to recover this "exclusive" news break.

Well....I guess now it all will be OK...One day the news are in favor of Zimmerman and the next one in favor of the victim.

What next? The gun went off by accident? The story is getting old by the day, and new "discoveries"are made by the minute. Another unsolved case is in the making...Nobody wins on this one, only the news media.

I never read that he was arrested or convicted of domestic violence only that both he and his girl friend had restraining orders on each other. How was the gun illegal? There was nothing to keep him from having a gun. IF and I say if he had been convicted of a domestic violence charge, it wouldn't keep him from having a gun, just keep him from getting a concealed weapon permit! I forget how long ago the restraining order was but it might have been expired too. Big difference from having a restraining order and being convicted of a crime. Years ago, when I was getting a divorce, my wife's atty automatically files for a restraing order in all his divorce cases. I never have hit my wife or ex-wife and never even threatened violence to her. When arguements got too badm I walked away, which is what she complained about, go figure!

amanda...finally a clear-headed comment left on the page. the only possible thing to argue is that zimmerman has never been CONVICTED of any crime to have the ccw permit withdrawn. all of his "arrests" were made a few years back and he was never convicted of anything. also adding that he also took out a restraining order on the same woman who took out the one on him.

but i really appreciate you posting the report and NOT making it a white/black thing. bet you could really have an honest debate with someone without letting emotions enter into it. thank you

the big dogs got involved real quick...not your everyday punk heat carry'n neighborhood watch guy...

IzzAzz--

I think you make good points, and I think there are good points from the other side, too. That's why people should let the investigation proceed instead of encouraging lynch mobs.

But I also think it's a good thing the media and people are watching, as that reduces the potential for corruption by the authorities, who can NEVER, under ANY circumstances, be trusted without public supervision.

This story--as the title proves--is a transparent attempt to feed the flames. Four hours is not "shortly after," and anyone would clean their wounds and wash away blood in that time.

I've no idea how Florida's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law will ultimately play out in the legal system. But certain aspects of the story seem evident:

• Without Mr. Zimmerman's decision to follow Mr. Martin, in a direct contradiction of police advice, no shooting occurs.
• The police arrived within minutes of Zimmerman's initial call. It cannot be claimed that the police were unresponsive to the "suspicious person" report by Zimmerman.
• From her account of Trayvon Martin's last conversation (via cell phone) with his girlfriend, it would appear that Mr. Martin's initial response was to avoid Mr. Zimmerman, not confront him, and that it was only after Mr. Zimmerman once again caught up with him that he chose confrontation.
• From the police video's, which contradict the report of the first responding officer, Mr. Zimmerman does not appear like somebody who has a broken nose and has had his head slammed against the ground. He looks completely uninjured.

So, if this much talked about law legitimizes Mr. Zimmerman's actions that night, to twice pursue stranger, and when that person then "stands his ground", to retaliate for a few bumps and bruises, by shooting him dead, then the law is wrong. If it authorizes or decriminalizes George Zimmerman's actions that night, then it amounts to a hunting license for any self-appointed vigilante. It seems too, that the law is unnecessary. Under the current laws in most states, a person accosted in a public place is only bound to retreat, in lieu of using deadly force, if he [or she] can do so without putting themselves or those around them in danger of grievous bodily harm. Why one needs a law which encourages a person with other alternatives, to simply draw their gun and fire it, is beyond me.



: walking around at night in the rain looking at the houses, staring at the houses

1900 hours = 7pm. You make it sound like he was prowling around at midnight.

The police report states that Zimmermans back was wet with grass on it and he had lacerations to the back of his head.

Grass stains and some scratches are no reason to kill someone.

No matter how badly the race baiters want this to be their case ... the facts just don't support it

The only facts you have indicate that there was a fight between the two prior to the shooting. Everything else is based on Zimmerman's testimony, a man who is the focus of a criminal investigation, and apparently the sole witness. Pardon me if I garnish anything he says with plenty of salt. He changed his story from "never followed him" to "yeah I followed him" to "just got out of the truck to check the street sign" to "going back to my truck and got jumped" to "Trayvon went for the gun" to "Gun went off on accident"... please.

He's got his lawyer in his ear telling him what to say and the apologists like yourself are out here on the boards just fishing for a defense that sticks.

It looks like ya'll have finally settled on Trayvon the ninja-wizard disappearing in a cloud of smoke and reappearing in order to jump Zimmerman from behind.

Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin's body, was asked if there were any signs on his hands that he had punched someone.

"The only thing that I was able to see was the gunshot wound," Kurtz told The Last Word. "I could not see evidence like he had been punching somebody as the news media say he was punching ... It just did not add up to me."

I don't know if you've ever been in a fight before - but your hands get really effed up when you are pounding someone.

Here's some facts for you: an armed adult - untrained in law enforcement - self appoints himself as neighborhood watch. In violation of Neighborhood Watch policy, he carries a firearm. In violation of policy, he pursues Martin.

It was his irresponsibility as the adult, and as a gun-owner, that directly resulted in the death of a teenager who was (need I remind you?) not in the commission of any crime UNTIL he crossed paths with Zimmerman's poor judgements. Zimmerman created the situation and failed epically to defuse the situation. As a CCW owner myself, I find Zimmerman's action shine a bad light on gun-owners everywhere and defending his poor judgments only serve to harm the dialogue about gun rights in this country.

You don't just wipe up the blood from a broken nose and walk away. It needs treatment. The video does NOT show a broken nose, or bruises in any way, which you also get when punched in the nose. A clear lie, not that I'm shocked that he lied about it.

My heart genuinely and completely goes out to the family of Trayvon Martin. I pray they find peace through all this somehow but I know they won't find it by youths looting a Walgreens. What's up with that? Come on, it's getting to be a free for all and lose the meaning it needs to have. This story has consumed the news, day in and day out. As usual, the public hears only segments of the story and reacts. When people form an opinion we all know it isn't easy to penetrate that opinion even with facts. I pray for peace for the family that is all I can do. Now that this has been brought to the forefront of the world, can't we allow the legal system scrutinize and deal with the rest without undue pressure from activists who live for a cause, any cause. You know what I mean, the overly zealous and self righteous boneheads.

It may be that Zimmerman was wrong in the shooting.

However, it's also wrong to refer to him as "white", especially when compared to the two officers.

Even if Trayvon was looking at houses, so what. How many of us walk down the street and check out houses if they happen to have a nice lawn, a nice window, etc. Why is it that a young black guy can't do the same without the assumption that he is "up to no good"?

Rickeroo, I don't get your point in the slightest bit. He's either white, black, pacific islander,or asian. Pick one.

The noose tightens around Zimmerman's neck. If there is evidence of police conspiracy or complicity in a cover up, I as a citizen demand accountability.

Black community leaders have done well to bring this case forward as a miscarraige of justice, but they need to be patience as the evidence unfolds. The case for Zimmerman is looking bad, but sometimes you need to sit back and let the wheels of justice turn. There are now competent people prosecuting this case. 98% of "pigment challenged" people want the same justice. The other 2% are dangerous bigots who would kill a black youth only for wearing a hoody.

Sorry, but that video quality was pretty much garbage and everyone seems all too quick to ignore the following:

It was taken about four hours after the deadly incident.

Not to mention he was given first aid at the scene by paramedics, obviously many of you have never had a broken nose before.

All I see is the same people who made up their mind on this case based on race before knowing all of the facts continuing to do so.

If Zimmerman had listened to the police officer, NONE of this would be happening. He could have stayed in his vehicle and pointed out where he last saw the young man; he chose to follow and confront Treyvon. If YOU were a young man and some older guy who was NOT a police officer was stalking you, how would you react?

It's very important to get to the bottom of this incident, which is all Trayvon's parents have asked for. Why wasn't Zimmerman detained or arrested until a complete investigation could be carried out?

There are two sides to every story. Trayvon can't tell his side of what happened that night.

Unless you are a member of a minority group, you cannot comprehend the effect that stereotyping has on your life.

Rickerroo.... what would you like him referred to as? A murderer... because that's what he is and bytheway he IS white too.

I saw this video last night. Wow, just wow. Arrest this man immediately. I've had worse injuries falling out of my own sheer stupidity than he has in this video. His injuries do not give the impression of "threat to life" or "great bodily harm," which are of course required to claim "stand your ground" protections. Coupled with the fact that this man pursued Martin and not the other way around, and this case is air tight.

I had been arguing this was likely a case of manslaughter, after this video... murder. String him up.

Hey race hater...the cops said that they had no reason to arrest him. You should be more concerned about their corruption,,,but you aren't.

Oh believe me, we're actually MORE concerned about that. But give this man a nice taste of justice first!

My opinion has very little to do with race. I don't care if Zimmerman is white, black, hispanic, purple... whatever. He acted with prejudice in accordance with preconceived notions that turned out to be categorically false. That is undeniable. A black person can be prejudiced against another black person as well. It makes no difference.

The ones doing the most race baiting here are those that make the fallacious moral equivalency arguments that ignore the fact that in their cited cases the perps were arrested and charged.

Good judgments don't lead to the shooting death of an unarmed teenager walking back from the cornerstore. Plain and simple. Trayvon may have very well made some bad decisions as well, but Zimmerman was the armed adult and self-appointed authority figure in this situation. It was Zimmerman's poor judgments as an armed adult that created and escalated the situation beyond the point of control.

Nothing like trying and convicting someone in the media. As if we need more shoddy reporting to fuel the lynch mob. Apparently people are either not being taught or have forgotten that you are innocent until proven guilty. I am confident MSNBC is no more privy to all the facts then the mobs ready to lynch this man.

Tawana Brawley and the Duke lacrosse players are both examples of a rush to judgment by the Civil Rights leaders (leaders, now there is a dubious term for those clowns) and the media. But they were all wrong. We now live in a country where the battle cry is racist, and thugs like the New Black Panthers and Spike Lee can break the law with impunity.

TFNJ:

I agree with what you write with the 1 exception. You can barely see the suspect in the video, his bruises not withstanding nor some sort of bandage on his face that usually accompanies a broken nose. I'm confused to the police desicion to allow him to walk around without restraints due to the magnitude of the situation. I'm also relying on shoddy reporting to based my opinions. I believe most of the truth will be uncovered, but since there have been so many inconsistent views, the whole truth will never be told.

I am hoping his family is able to find peace somehow during this media debacle and are given the space they will need to lay their loved one to rest. God speed and my thoughts are with them.

IzzAzz, your post (#1.14) is so full of factual inaccuracies and pure conjecture.

For example:

Zimmermamn told the 911 dispatcher that Treyvon was coming to check him out, etc. Zimmerman was watching Treyvon (he's the neighborhood watch so that seems reasonable) and it was Treyvon who confronted and then attacked Zimmerman.

Yes, Zimmerman does say that Trayvon is "coming to check me out", about 20 seconds before he says "@!$%#, he's running" and gets out of the vehicle to give chase.

Did you even listen to the 911 tape?

Apparently people are either not be taught or have forgotten that you are innocent until proven guilty.

That's all fine and dandy, but this is a public forum of opinion and speculation.

But they were all wrong. We now live in a country where the battle cry is racist, and thugs like the New Black Panthers and Spike Lee can break the law with impunity.

You're just as guilty of making this about race as they are.... to me, this whole Al Sharpton etc stuff is just a distraction... red meat for the cons to latch onto and argue against despite its overall irrelevancy. He makes this about race, and you gobble it up as if that's the core argument. It's not.

Rickeroo what race is everyone supposed to refer Zimmerman too except for White. Zimmerman sounds pretty WHITE to me. Off that subject. It seems to me Florida is and always will be a lawless place. They have loose laws to protect the children and pedophiles run rampant. Now their flagrant gun laws allows gun toting idiots to shoot to kill just because they got their A$$ beat alledgely (I hope I spelled that right) in a fight. What happened to just taking your beating as a MAN? You want to be Billy BadA$$ and confront someone you get what you what? Not in Florida though you can Shoot TO KIll. Mr. Zimmerman should and needs to arrested .

Black community leaders have done well to bring this case forward as a miscarraige of justice, but they need to be patience as the evidence unfolds. The case for Zimmerman is looking bad, but sometimes you need to sit back and let the wheels of justice turn.

The wheels of justice grind slow, but they grind fine ~ Sun Tzu

Bob Fu, yes the video is grainy, for us. But there is no sign of any injury indicative of a broken nose. But part from that, the police could have put that matter to rest by now, by making a statement that they observed bruises indicating a broken nose, blood continuously flowing from the nose as happens when the nose is broken, and also some sort of interrogation video. Don't know how many of you have seen the back of the squad car before, but when you get to the interrogation room, it is all recorded. Since this case hinges on who attacked who first, you would figure the police would have put that to rest by now, if it were available. If it is not, or if the video contradicts Zimmermans statements, then we have a problem.

@Rickeroo

Why is it "wrong" to refer to Zimmerman as "white" as if it's the sin of the century or something? If his father is white, why can't Zimmerman be called "white?" I don't get that. If people are mixed, they should have just as much right to claim one part as the other. Whose rule is it to choose only one - the one part that the rulers of society consider "inferior"? And, what's the real motive behind that rule?

DrowningGrover, I had to send you a friend request. had to, you left me no choice.. :)

Why is it "wrong" to refer to Zimmerman as "white" as if it's the sin of the century or something? If his father is white, why can't Zimmerman be called "white?" I don't get that. If people are mixed, they should have just as much right to claim one part as the other. Whose rule is it to choose only one - the one part that the rulers of society consider "inferior"? And, what's the real motive behind that rule?

Yeah, that's always interesting how people do that. In Hispaniola, if you had even a drop of black african ancestry - you were officially considered black by the government and not subject to the same laws and protections as 'higher' races. It seems such trends continue.

from the original police report, the police had no probable cause to hold Zimmermann; the follow up investigation will be referred to the prosecutor, who will of course take all the evidence and present it to a grand jury, from the police report , there is no doubt there was a physical altercation between the two.

I wasn't there. I don't know what happened. But you can't try and convict a person in the news. You have to do that by trial and a jury of his peers. I do feel very sorry for both families, whose lives are ruined forever.

I don't if anyone one here has ever suffered a broken nose, but IF he was treated by EMT's for a broken nose, he would at the very least, have some type of bandage over the bridge of his nose.

just your average every day heat carry'n neighborhood watch guy...with nothing better to do...ya'll ain't figured it out yet...

DrowningGrover, I had to send you a friend request. had to, you left me no choice.. :)

I imagine it's for the Sun Tzu quote :) Thanks

Drowning Grover. Yes, I did listen to the 911 tape. Did you?

(dot) com

at :50 Zimmerman says that Treyvon is looking at him then at 1:00 Zimmerman tells the 911 operator that Treyvon is coming towards him.

Sorry you don't like the facts but ignoring them doesn't make them go away.

There is also the comment Zimmerman made where he thought he whispered but he said it on an open mic, " Effing Coons" during the first call at 2:22 of that call. Race had something to do with it as well as the fact that his daddy was a former judge. No first aid could have cleaned him up enough to give him this pristeen appearance that he has and the cop wipes his hand off on his own pants, cops are taught to not touch blood due to possible infection. This clearly shows him wipe the substance on his own leg. How many people would wipe blood on themselves?, it was grass or water. The report could have easily been made to sound as if procedures were followed. Police reports are always made and filed afterwards...C'MON people reports are not made on the spot. My father was a Chicago cop dor 20 years and an investigator for the last 6 of those years. Zimmermans story is BS!

Its for many, since I remember good posts when reading, but yeah that one stood out.

Sono,

First aid does not remove evidence of a beating. The injuries would be obvious on the film. No cuts, marks, or swollen nose. Give me a break! No signs of distress at all.

People see what they want to see. Geeesssss.

WMG, while I know I didn't detail every race on a government form off the top of my head, I listed enough to make a point. As a Hispanic, I am fully aware of what categories I have to chose. And that I'm one of the Races listed above. I wanted to point out that Hispanic/Latino is NOT considered a Race in this country.

they have arrested people from way worse video and no matter how you look at it you can clearly see the back of his head and his nose! from the "report" that is probably fake since it was released long after the incident it says he had a broken nose and stitches in the back of his head! No in all the cases of broken noses i have seen they usually have some sort of bandage like a butterfly tape stitch or or its all taped with a brace. as far as the stitches go they would be visible and you cant see anything!

No bandages on the back of his head or his nose, an no blood on his shirt either. He was given first aid in the back of the squad car? If so why are there no bloody towels or blood soaked bandages. where the one that gave the first aid. I did not see any gash on the back of his head either that was from slaming his head on the concert sidewalk??

. And wouldn't he also have possibly had a black eye or two from that? When my sister and mother and grandpa broke their noses they did. I would have expected that there would have been close ups of Zimmerman face by the police dept, to support the claims of his being beaten. I mean it would be the thing to do right.

Where are the two main posters (freeman1 And switchblade) they are nothere to make comments that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman,like all the other stories they posted. Well maybe later on they might show up in Zimmermans defence

@TFNJ

I wanted to point out that Hispanic/Latino is NOT considered a Race in this country.

And you were right to do it :-)

I've moved up. I used to have to chose "Other". lol

Now I have options.

Even though Zimmerman was "cleaned up" by the Barney Fife's of the SPD, if he sustained a broken nose, particularly since the video was taken four hours after the fact, there would be bruising as well as cuts to the skin. The video CLEARLY shows ... no bruising, no cuts and/or scrapes, no bandaging.

Further, even though Zimmerman was "cleaned up" by Barney Fife & Co., smashing someone's head into the pavement, as Zimmerman claims, would allow for the presence of bruising, cuts and/or scrapes and bandages ... especially if his empty melon was "repeatedly" pounded into the pavement. The video CLEARLY shows the back of Zimmerman's empty melon and guess what? No bruising, no cuts and/or scrapes to the skin, no bandaging.

But, this makes no difference to the Zimmerman apologists ... Jesus H. Christ himself can point out the obvious and they would still make excuses.

Lastly ... it warms my heart that many here are just repeating what FAUXNoize vomits down their throats ... victimizing the victim by falling over themselves regarding the victims past which is irrelevant. Irrelevant ... look it up in the dictionary. And, they pathetically throw around "race baiter" to those who have more than two brain cells to rub together and see this crime for exactly what it is ... the cold-blooded murder of a young man who had the gall to walk through the neighborhood where his father lives, armed with Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea. What sad, weak little minds the apologists have.

BTW People

- Black eyes don't appear until the next day; I am curious what a picture of Zimmerman would look like the following morning.

- You can't bandage inside the hair

- The video shows nothing because its very poor video

The photos and facts are not released yet; not because the reports are being falsified at at later date, but simply because they are intended for the lawyers, the judge and the jury.. not the idiotic media or the wolves that swallow everything they read.

Yes, we was given first aid, and maybe his mommy kissed it and magically made it all better. Basic first aid doesn't magically make bruising, scraping, and crushing disappear, nor does it wash the blood out of your clothes.

Let's face it, if Zimmerman was getting the tar beat out of him, to the point where he feared for his life (which, FYI, wouldn't have happened if ZIMMERMAN hadn't disregarded the 911 operator) you don't think there would at least be a cut, or some blood on his t-shirt? He shot someone, and he didn't get a speck on him? Wouldn't that speak to there being a considerable distance between him and Trayvon?

It doesn't add up, people, no matter how hard you want it to.

And, no one has answered my question yet...

The size difference between Trayvon and myself, in terms of weight, is about ten pounds less than the size difference between Zimmerman and Trayvon. That's using the most conservative estimate of Zimmerman's weight and putting him at 200 lbs, and the weight recorded on the official police report for Trayvon and putting him at 160 lbs.

If Trayvon had disregarded police orders, followed me, was armed and I wasn't, and I freaked out and punched him, would he have been justified in shooting me???

No visible injuries!

What a surprise!

No broken nose, no gash to the head, no bloodstains, no stitches....

Just a fat, racist, wanna-be-cop vigilante getting away with murder.

Merle,

Here's a link to the official police report that lists Trayvon at 6' and 160 lb...

http://media.myfoxchicago.com/pdf/zimmerman-report.pdf

And please explain why the back of his head has no bruising or scratching, and why there isn't a drop of blood on him, if the assault was that bad.

And then, please answer my question...

The size difference between Trayvon and myself, in terms of weight, is about ten pounds less than the size difference between Zimmerman and Trayvon. That's using the most conservative estimate of Zimmerman's weight and putting him at 200 lbs, and the weight recorded on the official police report for Trayvon and putting him at 160 lbs.

If Trayvon had disregarded police orders, followed me, was armed and I wasn't, and I freaked out and punched him, would he have been justified in shooting me???

White and Hispanic aren't mutually exclusive. We're talking about a race and an ethnicity, which are two different things. Zimmerman is both white and Hispanic. It's not about whether he "looks white" compared to the police officers, for crying out loud. If white and Hispanic were mutually exclusive, they wouldn't be separate check boxes on every form you fill out. You check your race, then Hispanic or Non-Hispanic. Why is there so much discussion about that? Are people really under the impression that being Hispanic means he can't be racist? Like that excuses him? No one's calling Zimmerman "white" to make him look more racist. He just is white. And Hispanic.

ken trout, you sir are an idiot even though the video is a little grainy its not the horrible video you claim it to be you can clearly tell he has no hair so there for you would see the bandage and even if he had hair you would still see the bandages cause his head would be rapped if it was beat on the concrete like he says it was! so your argument is trumped by the so called grainy video!

I wanted to point out that Hispanic/Latino is NOT considered a Race in this country.

Then why is it one of the choices for "race/ethnicity" on our census cards?

J. Merle, I take it that you only saw the photo above and not the video that appears when you click on it. You can clearly see Zimmerman's face and head in the video and there is no visible wounds. There are also updated pictures of Martin in the video, and he does appear to be older, but he is not near 200 lbs. The fact is that the police recommended an arrest warrant be issued for Zimmerman, but the prosecutors office denied the request.

J. Merle Stanley-2759623,

you and ken trout both need glass i can clearly see his nose and the back of his head, did you even watch the video? try youtube it has a pretty good video of it!

Drowning Grover. Yes, I did listen to the 911 tape. Did you?

(dot) com

at :50 Zimmerman says that Treyvon is looking at him then at 1:00 Zimmerman tells the 911 operator that Treyvon is coming towards him.

Sorry you don't like the facts but ignoring them doesn't make them go away.

LOL, and lemme guess, you STOPPED the tape right there and proclaimed Zimmerman innocent. I suppose you missed the part about 20 seconds AFTER Zim says "he's coming to check me out" when he says "@!$%#, he's running."

I suppose you also missed the part where you can hear Zimmerman exit his vehicle to pursue on foot (heavy breathing, outside noise). I suppose you also missed the part where 911 dispatch asks "are you following him?" And you missed Zimmerman's answer of "Yes." Did you also miss when 911 dispatch states clearly "We don't need you to do that sir."

In addition, I suppose you also missed the fact that the altercation/body was found down a side walkway, around a corner, and through at least 3 backyards from the nearest street sign and Zimmerman's truck (if he parked at the absolute closest point to the fight).

Yes, the facts are the facts, and you know little of them...

puggylove

Sono,

First aid does not remove evidence of a beating. The injuries would be obvious on the film. No cuts, marks, or swollen nose. Give me a break! No signs of distress at all.

People see what they want to see. Geeesssss.

Yes, you have demonstrated quite applicably that people will see what they want to see and it’s fairly disheartening that so many individuals have taken that approach to the entire case without waiting for official responses by the states justice department or any of the house committees that have been established in the senate and congress regarding this case.

Honestly, I’m amazed that anyone is going to run with this video as definitive proof for the entire case when it’s of such a low quality that every single face has a grey tone over it b/c the cameras color and image capability aren’t intended for quality images. It’s ‘grainy’ at best and my point was that this isn’t even remotely what would or should be considered definitive proof of his innocence or guilt.

Some comments have referenced his nose as not having a giant bandage over it or signs of trauma, which would certainly be relevant points if those were 100% consistent throughout every single case of a broken nose. Unfortunately, they’re not and you can most assuredly break your nose without the need for some kind of absurdly large bandage or immediate bruising around the entire bridge of the nose.

I think it’s also pertinent to address the fact that maybe his nose wasn’t actually broken b/c it’s very easy to be punched by someone and not break your nose. It may just result in swelling and that’s kind of why people shouldn’t jump to conclusions based on the race factor and assume that every bit of information being released is 100% accurate and true.

TFNJ

SONO, I hope in your mind people don't recover from a broken nose in 4 hours. If you do think that, you will be in for a shock if you ever get hit in the nose. Hell, even a hit in the nose without being broken can bruise your sides, under the eyes, for days.

I’ve broken my nose twice, once playing baseball when I was 15 and the other was about 7 years ago in Muay Thai sparring. Sadly, both involved momentary lapses in my paying attention to the objective at hand. The baseball injury had initial bruising within a few hours b/c of the way the ball stuck the side of my nose and inner eye socket, but it was initially only on the area of side where the ball impacted. The second time took about 6hrs to really go from red to visually bruised up, but the kick basically just rearranged my nose to the right and medical gauss was all I needed to stop the bleeding.

My point is that there’s no 100% consistency with regards to a broken nose and the immediate after affects. What you described is really common when patients have to have their nose broken by a doctor in order to correct an injury or cosmetic reasons. To say that this grainy, at best, video 100% exonerates the possibility of a broken nose and some kind of wound on the back of his head is really just absurd.

That’s why I’m waiting for all of the evidence to be released by an official source before drawing a conclusion in this case. The reason it’s gotten so out of hand is because of the media manipulation of the information being released, the early portrayal of the two individuals involved in the shooting and the blindingly obvious reverse racism that has resulted from the 2 aforementioned reasons. I think it’s a good thing that this case has been taken to task, but the massive amount of finalized judgment that has taken place based on race and a rather enormous lack of accurate information is simply embarrassing.

I realize this is far too many words and paragraphs for the overwhelming vast majority of newsvine posters to bother with reading but I wanted to explain myself before leaving the office for the day.

I just have to say that both of you have strange notions about what self-defense is supposed to do. If he was having his head slammed against the sidewalk, naturally he would be resisting, mitigating any damage done as best as he was able. The fact that his injuries were slight just means that his defense was adequate.

WMG, good point. I wasn't trying to state that one cannot use self-defense, but the criteria for "self-defense" in the "stand your ground" law are much stricter than normal for the aggressor, that is Zimmerman.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

Specifically section 776.041. That is, since Zimmerman provoked the use of force against himself, the criteria for self-defense are:

Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Clearly, from Zimmerman's injuries he was NOT in danger of imminent death nor does it really appear as if he exhausted every reasonable means to escape danger, nor does it appear that he made a good faith effort to withdraw from physical contact (else he wouldn't be FOLLOWING Martin).

In summary, the criterion for self-defense are far tighter for the aggressor than they are for an average person assailed on the street.

that is the standard for grainy video? how many cases would get overturned. Also don't we have tech to clear the video up? really if he had a broken nose and stitches he would have been treated at a hospital which will have the records and video as well. Also EMT reports? And the police is going to have pictures of the injuries because it is evidence.

This may show the wound on Zimmerman's head, also go back and watch the video again, at 1:48 to 1:52 the officer to his left is steps behind Zimmerman and is obviously looking at something on the back of his head, what that is is not clear.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

To Sarah.....

First off, 6' and 160lbs is still larger than Martin ws originally repreesnted to be by the media. The pictures that were shown on TV made him look like a little kid.

Secondly, you should read that police report a little further. Because, it states Zimmermanwas tended to by the Sanford Fire Department's EMT's. Having once been an EMT myself, I happen to know that they would have cleaned up his face with gauze sponges and distilled water if there was blood from a broken nose.

Thirdly, you can't see the back of his head in the video-picture, and head trauma (a concussion for example) does not necessarily have any visible signs.

Why do people like yourself insist that Zimmerman's "following" of Martin, was a license for Martin to beat the hell out of him?

It's as if you think the rules of the game were changed, and that the police gave Martin permission to put hands on Zimmerman when they told him not to approach the youth.

I'm sorry, but that's not the way it goes.

Lastly with regard to your questions, I cannot answer your last one. Because frankly,I don't understand what you're trying to get at. The bottom line here, is that no one has permission to beat on anyone else, at any time, for any reason whatsoever.

The truth of the matter is that every single aspect of this case has been misrepresented and/or misreported by either by the media, people on message boards like this one, and/or certain "civil rights leaders."

First they said that Martin was shot for no reason. Then, we found out that he attacked Zimmerman.

Then they said Zimmerman was allowed to go free from the scene, without being questioned by police. Now, we know that Zimmerman was taken into custody and questioned at police headquarters.

Then we were told that the police didn't do their job, didn't investigate, and just blew off the incident without any further consideration. But, we later found out that the police did thoroughly investigate the incident, and recommended manslaughter charges against Zimmerman. It was the prosecutor's office who decided not to file charges because of the stand your ground law in Florida. (The prosecutor's office always has final say on what charges get filed by the way.)

Then of course as I mentioned before, there's the pictures of Trayvon Martin. When in fact, he was much older, and much larger than was portrayed in the photos

The latest round of BS comes out of the video-picture from police headquarters. People like yourself are saying "there's no blood on his face. There's no blood on his clothes. There's no blah, blah blah....."When in fact, you know damn well that you can't see the back of his head in the video, and that you wouldn't be able to "see" a head injury in general. You also know that you wouldn't see blood on his face after he was attended, and cleaned up by EMS personnel.

Then you have Lawrence O'Donnell telling Joe Oliver that his word "isn't good enough for America."

But Lawrence O'Donnell's IS?

Joe Oliver knows George Zimmerman personally. He's been to house. He's worked with him.

As opposed to O'Donnell who knows NEITHER of the participants in this incident.

Not to mention the fact that O'Donnell and P.M.S.nbc did everything they could to make the man feel as uncomfortable as possible. They turned the studio lights out on him, and shined a spotlight in his face during the interview.

And Joe Oliver STILL "stood up" for George Zimmerman as a good man.

The impression I am left with is that some people are just "itching" to burn this guy whether he's guilty of anything or not.

Merle,

You obviously didn't watch the whole video, because you see him from every angle, back and front, at some point in time in it. You actually have to click on the arrow, and it will play. It shows the back of his head, his face, and his t-shirt.

Second, you didn't answer my question...

The size difference between Trayvon and myself, in terms of weight, is about ten pounds less than the size difference between Zimmerman and Trayvon. That's using the most conservative estimate of Zimmerman's weight and putting him at 200 lbs, and the weight recorded on the official police report for Trayvon and putting him at 160 lbs.

If Trayvon had disregarded police orders, followed me, was armed and I wasn't, and I freaked out and punched him, would he have been justified in shooting me??? I mean really, it's yes/no and fairly simple.

Third, you didn't answer this either...

Basic first aid doesn't magically make bruising, scraping, and crushing disappear, nor does it wash the blood out of your clothes.

Let's face it, if Zimmerman was getting the tar beat out of him, to the point where he feared for his life (which, FYI, wouldn't have happened if ZIMMERMAN hadn't disregarded the 911 operator) you don't think there would at least be a cut, or some blood on his t-shirt? He shot someone, and he didn't get a speck on him? Wouldn't that speak to there being a considerable distance between him and Trayvon?

Also, why do you take Zimmerman's witnesses at their words, but not Martin's??? Who has more to lose and therefore greater motivation to lie?

If he had a concussion, where are the hospital records?

We insist that Zimmerman was following him, because if you actually exited your bubble of bigotry, you would have listened to the 911 tape where you can hear Zimmerman running outside, the 911 operator asks, "Are you following him?" and Zimmerman replies, "Yes", to which the operator than states, "Okay we don't need you to do that sir."

Your attempts to keep denying and spinning this in order to protect your fragile white, male, ego, are beginning to be downright comical. No sources, no maps, no videos, no tapes, just hearsay from a man with motivation to lie, convinces you.

Clearly, from Zimmerman's injuries he was NOT in danger of imminent death nor does it really appear as if he exhausted every reasonable means to escape danger, nor does it appear that he made a good faith effort to withdraw from physical contact (else he wouldn't be FOLLOWING Martin).

Exactly. And let's remember- Zimmerman kept following the kid. Granted, not everyone would have gone off on someone following him from block to block, but I can understand why this kid got antsy. The kid lashed out. Some John Wayne/Clint Eastwood wannabe got a tad too trigger happy. He should be charged and jailed. End of story. "In fear for his life", my a$$.

Stand your ground laws = 21st century lynching.

You don't think if Zimmerman chased down and shot a rich white kid he wouldn't be in jail? Of course he would... racists have reared their ugly heads once again and proven that America still has deeply ingrained race problems. As a nation we should tackle these problems head-on and work to repeal all these lynching laws the Republicans are pushing nationwide.

I had my nose broke with a baseball. I didn't have bruises on my nose, but it bleed like crazy for a little while. Once the bleeding stopped, the doctor at the game was able to clean up the blood. It actually wasn't that painful from what I remember. Initially it was, but that quickly subsided.

This video is not sufficient evidence. It is unclear. The report said nothing about lacerations to the face. If bruising is to take effect which isn't always the case with nose related incidents, it normally takes time.

I would like to know the truth and it should be investigated, but now we have false racial hatred that is brewing. We have a president that has already decided to be the Judge and Jury. You have the Black Panthers offering a bounty on someones head. You have Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson making heated and unproductive calls. Congress getting involved and presuming guilt before knowing all the facts. You have Spike Lee harassing an elderly couple because he just isn't smart.

I find this mob mentality and racial blame counter productive and disgusting. I mean a white latino. That's beyond racist. We don't call Obama a white-african american.

If the feds decide to investigate the incident, if they haven't already, then we should wait for their findings.

This is a tragic story any way you slice it. I would like to see if they can animate what happened with some 3D graphics at the point where Zimmerman began following Martin, the 911 call, the alleged scuffle, etc. It would put things in perspective.

Joe,

Was your broken nose so threatening you felt the need to shoot the person responsible?

Zimmerman claims he had his head bashed in on the concrete, but the video, which is more than clear enough, shows you the back of his head numerous times, and there isn't so much as an abrasion, why?

If they were in a life/death struggle when Zimmerman shot Trayvon, why isn't there a drop of blood on his clothes?

Why was Trayvon's body found in a back yard, some distance from the street, if Zimmerman was getting out to look at a street sign?

Do you think an assault that was bad enough to justify shooting an unarmed person who is smaller than you, is also NOT bad enough to get in an ambulance, or go to a doctor?

Why didn't Zimmerman follow the instructions of the 911 operator and cease following Tayvon?

Why did Trayvon catch Zimmerman's attention in the first place?

Why was Zimmerman carrying a gun, when that's in direct conflict with the rules of the offical neighborhood watch agreement?

Also, we don't call Obama a white-black, because those are two RACES. We call him bi-racial. Hispanic is an ethnicity. I'm 1/2 Polish and 1/2 Italian and white. Hispanic means his roots lay in a Central/Southern American country and he's white.

And please, answer my question...

The size difference between Trayvon and myself, in terms of weight, is about ten pounds less than the size difference between Zimmerman and Trayvon. That's using the most conservative estimate of Zimmerman's weight and putting him at 200 lbs, and the weight recorded on the official police report for Trayvon and putting him at 160 lbs.

If Trayvon had disregarded police orders, followed me, was armed and I wasn't, and I freaked out and punched him, would he have been justified in shooting me??? I mean really, it's yes/no and fairly simple.

What's really disgusting is the denial some of you live in.

Jim, the speeding ticket is irrelevant it is the resisting arrest/ignoring police instructions that is relevant here. Zimmerman has a record showing that he does not listen to the police when they tell him not to do something.

WMG, you are dead wrong there. You cannot claim self defense if someone just hits you. You have to prove that your wounds would have been, or are, life threatening in your court case. Self Defense does not mean you get off scottfree after killing someone. You are supposed to be processed and held until you either make bail or your court date at which point a jury decides if your claim of self defense holds up to examination of the evidence.

Chances are Zimmerman will never face a trial. What he or the police say about whether or not it was self defense is irrelevant, you can make that claim but that does not mean you do not get arrested. Killing someone is not like shop lifting, many times even though that win a self defense claim still face some kind of punishment, severely reduced though.

That is not even dealing with the fact that Zimmerman has no blood on him in that video. There would be some blood on his clothes if he shot Treyvon up close and personal like they said it went down. He would of had blood from his injuries if it went down like they said it did. Even if he got medical attention, life threatening injuries do not heal magically, even wounds that require stitches that are deep enough to be life threatening still ooze blood for hours after they are stitched up.

Zimmerman has no bandages anywhere on his head nor a splint on his nose. Any medical professional will tell you that broken noses get splints and any time there are stitches they usually place bandages over them to catch the blood and to make sure the injury does not get infected.

Based on this video they lied about something, either that injuries at all were incurred or the severity of those injuries. Since Zimmerman may never face a trial and his self defense plea may never be scrutinized based on the evidence in a court of law we only have his state in this video to go off of and it says he did not receive injuries that warranted his killing of Martin in self defense.

NO! THE DENIAL IS YOUR LACK OF REALITY!

GOD SARAH have you ever been in a fist fight in you life? Have you? Normally the first person to throw the punch has the upperhand. The winner doesn't always result in size. You can be a big guy and not have much strength to you. You may not also have the ability to throw back if the energy of the other guy is overwhelming. SO your point about weight is not correct. Was Martin shot in the back as he was leaving? I don't think so. I haven't seen the autopsy report. I'm pretty sure that would be all over the news if that was the case. I invite you to watch the UFC. There are some big guys in there and they smaller guys are able to do a lot more damage and win the fight. I guess that may be your only exposure to an actual fight.

YES IF HE PUNCHED YOU YES SHOOT IF YOU THINK YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED! Fighting happens quickly and you don't have much time to react.

Hey 50lb dog could easily kill you. The dog is a lot smaller than you and weighs less. Would you shoot it if it came after you? Or would you just let it keep biting you?

Apparently there were issues in the neighborhood before. I haven't researched much into it, but I heard about it on the news before. Anyways he confronted the guy and "allegedly was attacked". I'm sure Martin was afraid as well and there was an extreme lack of communication. Why Zimmerman didn't listen to the dispatcher (Not the police). I don't know, maybe he was trying to hide and be able to tell the police where Martin was when they arrived. I don't know the answer to that question. I'm not Zimmerman, I can't accurately speculate.

It's ridiculous because they are playing up these RACES. Hispanic is an ethnicity but they consider Asian and Hispanic Races as well if you have ever filled out a form you would know this. I personally don't care about race. It isn't something I define in my friendships or other relationships. I define people by their character and actions. Race is a color of skin that is it. Black is considered of African Decent. That is why it is called African American, but they still use that for RACE.

There obviously was an ambulance and emergency people on site. I'm sure they can testify to what they had done!

IM ASKING FOR AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION TO BE DONE TO FIND THE FACTS. SO ZIMMERMAN AND THE POLICE WERE LYING?? To what ends? Why would the police officer lie? His supervisors would see his report as a lie. Was this the only guy that saw Zimmerman? Would the interogation videos show things more clearly than the distant and dark entry to the building? You are in no position to dictate what he suffered and didn't suffer without understanding. You are just as bad as the others with this mob mentality and reliving the civil rights era.

Repeal 'stand your ground'.

Joe,

You still didn't answer the question...

WOULD TRAYVON HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED IN SHOOTING ME???

The size difference between Trayvon and myself, in terms of weight, is about ten pounds less than the size difference between Zimmerman and Trayvon. That's using the most conservative estimate of Zimmerman's weight and putting him at 200 lbs, and the weight recorded on the official police report for Trayvon and putting him at 160 lbs.

If Trayvon had disregarded police orders, followed me, was armed and I wasn't, and I freaked out and punched him, would he have been justified in shooting me??? I mean really, it's yes/no and fairly simple.

The ambulence people testified that basic first aid was given. No other medical records have been released.

Also, answer the other questions...

Zimmerman claims he had his head bashed in on the concrete, but the video, which is more than clear enough, shows you the back of his head numerous times, and there isn't so much as an abrasion, why?

If they were in a life/death struggle when Zimmerman shot Trayvon, why isn't there a drop of blood on his clothes?

Why was Trayvon's body found in a back yard, some distance from the street, if Zimmerman was getting out to look at a street sign?

Do you think an assault that was bad enough to justify shooting an unarmed person who is smaller than you, is also NOT bad enough to get in an ambulance, or go to a doctor?

Why didn't Zimmerman follow the instructions of the 911 operator and cease following Tayvon?

Why did Trayvon catch Zimmerman's attention in the first place?

Why was Zimmerman carrying a gun, when that's in direct conflict with the rules of the offical neighborhood watch agreement?

All you did was rant about UFC and make assumptions. Look into the facts we know. Check out Zimmerman's story, look at the map of where Trayvon's body was found in relation to that story, listen to the 911 tapes, and than come back and rant.

Furthermore, yes I have been in a fist fight, probably more often than you have.

As an aside, MSNBC and Newsvine, you people seriously need to add a "thumbs up/thumbs down" option rather than a collapsing post option.

This is ridiculous. THE ENTIRE FIRST PAGE IS COLLAPSED, some of the posts with 200+ upvotes! I'd much prefer if racist, insensitive, or name-calling drivel simply received 800 "down" votes but remained visible for the entire community to read (and "ignore" the author if they so choose) than to have to open... every... single... damn.... comment...

Regular posters on here have been making this suggestion for years (literally) now. You guys have the best discussion board of any of the mainstream news sites (e.g., CNN, Fox, ABC, etc.) as it's easy to read, posts follow chronologically, you can reply/quote particular people, etc. IT'S A GREAT MESSAGE BOARD.

But highly polarized topics such as this just crash the damn thing because people simply "No value" and "Inflammatory" every single post they even slightly disagree with. Great posts get lost in the shuffle. Please, i'm begging you!

Edited to add: AND it would make the moderator's job easier. Rather than having to "restore" six thousand comments, they could read a couple that have been highly flagged as "inflammatory" to see if they clearly break the newsvine COH and then delete those posts. Moderators, make it happen!

:)

Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon had punched him in the face and that the now deceased teenager had "broken" his nose.

For a guy who took such a horrific beating as Zimmerman states, he looks unbruised and physically unharmed in the video.

What a shameless liar Zimmerman is!

joe IMHO

Hey 50lb dog could easily kill you. The dog is a lot smaller than you and weighs less. Would you shoot it if it came after you? Or would you just let it keep biting you?

I have to laugh at that one, really I guess that you would be one of those people right.I have never feared a dog,not the size or the breed I do not need a gun to kill a dog that is coming for me. If you would like to know how it is done just ask I'll gladly tell you so you don't have to use a gun. Yes I know some people are AFRAID of dogs,and they know that.

YES IF HE PUNCHED YOU YES SHOOT IF YOU THINK YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED! Fighting happens quickly and you don't have much time to react.

Sarah that is the best you'll get from him, Key word here is THINK!

I have to wonder what the interrogation room video shows what he looked like, Why when I watch shows (like cops & the first 48 hours)the video is fairly good and clear with some of them have blood on them and scuffs marks,cut,bruises,etc and they are not cleaned up. why,then did they clean him up?Something to ponder How life threatening was it really. I mean If being cleaned up by EMT'S, and no bandages were required , how life threatning was it really?(maybe in his own mind). To me,it does not look like his life was in any threatenbut Trayvon's was.

This whole case has been handled horribly. And for those of you who keep bringing up Trayvons past, it is totally and completely irrelevant as Zimmerman could not have known ANY of his past. All he knew was there was a black kid with a hoodie on walking in his neighborhood. Nothing else. He was not committing any criminal act, unless walking while being a black teen in a hoodie is a criminal act.

However, it's also wrong to refer to him as "white", especially when compared to the two officers.

Except in how the shooting is perceived by the general public, I see no especial importance to the question of whether Mr. Zimmerman could be termed "White". An unjustified shooting is an unjustified shooting, and unless it can be shown that George Zimmerman was part of some racist group, which targets Black Americans, his color is of no more importance than his favor flavor of ice cream.

floriduh...give the neighbor hoody watch program more bullets...got to get a bullet proof hoody...

Amanda you are wrong on 2 accounts, He was never convicted of domestic violence, and do you know for a fact the restraining order is still in effect?? The restraining orders USUALLY have a time period unless it goes to court and a permanenet one is granted, When they both applied for PFAs they were both granted but NO charges were ever prosecuted, he has no felony convictions so he CAN LAWFULLY POSESS a firearm

tex-478405

8) To Sarah: It is so sad that you hate your own people, your own White men, so much to turn your back on them

To me,That sound like racism if I ever heard(read) it.

a community watch Captain's job is to keep track of questionalbe people sneaking around homes.

Excuse me there TEX, but he was not sneaking around Or haven't you been following the story.

If I had to live in a "diverse" community like this I would be very pleased with people like Ole Zim keeping an eye out! AND THE GUN MAY HAVE SAVED ZIMS LIFE. NOT ME! He is a loose cannon that went off without just cause. IMHO!

LOL! REALLY now,he was told by those that give rule to the neighborhood watch(DUH! the police) to NOT CARRY A GUN!DO NOT GIVE PERSUIT! OBSERVE AND CALL 911 The only rule he did not break was to call 911 He took it upon his own self to catch this person and did not witness a crime by this person. I would say he gave a false report to justify his own thoughts of a person walking HOME FROM THE STORE. I would not want this individual in my community even for a minute.

tex-478405

Just wanted you to know I am white,(Caucasian) MY people are AMERICANS!! People seem to forget that America is a melting pot of people of all walks of live and of all colors,etc. We as a nation cannot survive being divided over the color of our skin.

Sorry.. life not live Since these comments are collapsed,It took to long to find it to make the correction. I am sure however that you're of the same feeling, So if I have offended you It was not ment that way sir. good day.

@ Sarah.. I answered your question in LARGE CAPS. The answer was YES. I don't know if you are having trouble reading. Women normally don't possess the same strength as a man though. Yeah if you punched him and he kept going at him, sure he could shoot you, if he feels his life is endangered. He doesn't know if or when you are going to stop. The law also say bodily injury as well.

Did you also know that the picture that has been floating around is when he was 12 yrs old? He was a little bigger at 17.

Your whole weight argument is irrelevant. People that are versed in fighting knows. At least fighting between men. And I used the UFC as an example if you haven't been around fighting. It wasn't a "RANT" as you say, it was a statement.

I hear you asking me all those questions when I wasn't even there or personally looked at the evidence. So my answers would be speculative. I invite you to listen to an interview with a neighbor of that community. A lot of your questions would be answered. It was released yesterday I believe.

But you decided not to answer my questions and you rambled on with the same points, which means you have quite the closed mind and you have already found Zimmerman guilty. May God have mercy on you.

FURTHERMORE, Don't presume to know my life, struggles or successes, it is very adolescent.

if the evidence shows that zimmerman was in fact punched and on the ground with injury's to the back of his head , then a fight did occur; and here is the problem, no jury will convict him, and if convicted, it would be reversed on appeal, unless there is evidence that zimmerman started the fight. ( following a person, does not equal hostile intent, since it was zimmerman neighborhood, in a gated community)

Tex

Come on killroy, you are telling us you would have let the hood beat you to death and not shot him?

You being a person being trained in the arts of self defence (in the Marshal arts) are telling me that you would shoot this person? If that is so then you did nor Learn much did you, No I would not LET someone beat me,as you so eloquently put it. I stated once before on another story this "you can be the biggest man (or bigger than ME) and I can take you(sorry,someone.) out with ONE(1) kick to the knee and DOWN YOU/they GO!Crying like a baby. If you have ever been hit there before you know it hurts like a Bi-ch ! even when you just bump it. People it only takes 12 LBS of pressure to dislocate the knee,it only is made to bend in one direction,so figure it out. no one will ever be able to follow you or be able to fight after that. I know, I've seen it. The knee swells up to four times it's normal size, you'll need medical help,you will need help to get off the ground. I would have thought you of all people should know this being trained in the arts. And after doing that you don't have to kill them now do you AH NO YOU DON'T. I do not carry a concealed weapon, or need to sir See I do not say more than he was responsible for the death of a young man. I feel that he (being older) should have not left his truck, he should not have presumed him guilty of anything because he did not witness any wrong doing,he already call the police he did not need to go after him . Trayvon is young with no experience to know any other option other than to run or fight. As once a trapper I know that if you chase an animal it will run, if you corner it, it will fight. It is the same for people too.

As for your it was once true of the melting pot but not now??? because of people that do not mix??? I sir, believe otherwise. I was taught not to discriminate against any race, for we are all AMERICAN. To me it is that kind of thinking that makes us weak as a nation. Teach to your kids, they learn from our examples do they not?

We as a nation cannot survive with all other races and favored groups given special privileges paid for by the dying out White race. TRUE! BUT that is a POLITICAL ISSUE created from politics and politicians. Trying to be politically correct. I do not believe in what the two reverends are doing to work the people up to a frenzy that is wrong and helping nothing they will have to face the music when they meet their maker. I disagree with paying special privilege's to any kind or group of people over another, because then how can people become equal? I believe that we are all the same we live here inside our borders we are Americans .Finial answer sir

LastlyI will find you their rules if I can and post them for you,But they have specificaly stated not to carry a gun on the watch program sir they havee repeted it several times.

I also have several hoodies as you put it, the hoodie is not the problem and if you will sir post the right link so that i get the right 911 call that states that hoodie thing. Thanks

tex

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/24/zimmerman-was-not-following-neighborhood-watch-rules

This is the best thing I could find to back me up to what I stated it was from a sheriff ok. waiting for your link sir.

That's news that you need to provide proof for; several brushes????

The media should show a current picture of the hoodlum: big, brawny

Because if you see his Blackness, you'll agree that he's a threat...because he LOOKS like what we're afraid of.

who had several brushes in with the police.

You must be talking about Zimmerman.

Commonsense, I think he's talk about the following news:

CBS4 News Partner The Miami Herald, quoting from school police reports and other sources, has revealed that Martin was suspended from school on three occasions. In one case he spray painted an obscene acronym on a school locker. In another he was caught, the paper reports, with a plastic baggie containing marijuana residue. In a third case he was suspended for tardiness and absences.

Going through his bag, the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family’s lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called “irrelevant” and an attempt to demonize a victim.

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation. CBS4 Miami Herald

I assume that by "hoodlum: big, brawny, who had several brushes in with the police" you mean Zimmerman, the murderer.

blacks screaming race again.... mainstream media not telling the whole story.... how about letting the judicial system make its decision?

Jersey, you sound like the racist one to me. Hate much?

There are a lot of people who don't believe they are racist only because they don't understand what racism is.

What did Jersey say that was anywhere near racist? Oh yeah, he didn't.

"Hate much?" Are you about 12?

Bear - "But you simply cannot be satisfied until you see a tattooed, cornrow, ripped black man with tats and few knife slashes huh? Throw some bullet wounds in there while you are at it." ~ Jersey

Yes, racist.

Rick - No, but I'd bet you're close to it.

ru-the racist thing was said by broken in the original post.

learn how to read and comprehend you clueless tool ;)

Stop lying!

What a manipulation by the leftist crowd.

Did you read the article? Sometimes the truth hurts.

I agree with Jersey! Trayvon may have had height but he sure as heck wasnt Brawny! He was still a child and anyone with common sense knows that the strength of a man vs. child is completely different. Lets just say the did get into some type of scuffle. It's probable that Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked and his feelings were more hurt than anything. How could he be neighborhood was Captain and get beat up by a kid?

But the ultimate decision was made by Zimmerman when he got out the car. There was no reason the the supposed "Stand Your Ground Law to Come in to Play". If anything Trayvon should have felt just as threatened when Zimmerman was following him and got out of his vehicle. Did he not have the right to stand his ground?

hmmmm.... JerzzeyGirl07111 ..... anything else need be said ... the screen name says it all

brokenheart-1490693

No! The media should show a current picture of the hoodlum: big, brawny, who had several brushes in with the police. Not the cute picture of a young boy. What a manipulation by the leftist crowd.

So, where was it you heard about the "several brushes with the law"? What? The media? This may not be as cut and dried as it initially seemed. But come on. The shot a kid and the state attorney just completely ignored his job and let the the man go. Its just not right. Who provoked the whole encounter by all accounts?

@Hal

Probably Faux Never the News or conservative talk radio.

Trayvon didn't have an arrest record - no brushes whatsoever with the law. Three suspensions from school is not "brushes with the law." That's such a stretch and exaggeration. The one with the literal arrest record is Zimmerman, including assaulting a police officer and domestic violence.

Now, he's escalated his previous violent behavior to a body count.

I hope one of you people blindly saying to hang Zimmerman get jumped from behind by a 6'3" black thug in a dark alley in your own neighborhood while you were curiously following him to give police information as to where he went. And I hope you don't have a gun to defend yourselves...then we'll see how you feel.

Fact is, Trayvon jumped this guy from behind. The law states that you can use deadly force to stop a threat if you feel your life is in danger. Who are you to say that a 5'8" overweight, out of shape, Zimmerman, while getting pummeled on the ground by a 6'3" athlete didn't feel his life was threatened threatened?

@Dave-3537810 - You said he got jumped from behind...but I dont understand how someone gets jumped from behind and punched in the nose. Additionally, weren't words exchanged prior to the physical altercation...but he was jumped from behind? Your statement is confusing.

I hope one of you people blindly saying to hang Zimmerman get jumped from behind by a 6'3" black thug in a dark alley in your own neighborhood while you were curiously following him to give police information as to where he went.

He was 6'2'' last I heard, did he grow an inch since he died or did I get the wrong info from the last guy who tried to make Trayvon look like a scary black man?

Also, apparently Trayvon is a mfkn ninja-wizard, because he was able to run away from Zimmerman - then turn around and sneak up on him (apparently by deftly flowing with the fog and shadows) on a quiet, open suburban street at 7pm.

Give me a break.

An unarmed teenager walking home from a cornerstore does not end up dead because the armed adult on watch who killed him made good decisions.

A series of massively poor decisions by Mr. Zimmerman (the armed adult) put Trayvon Martin (the unarmed teenager) smack dab in the middle of an epic f*ck up which could have been avoided if the the armed adult was a responsible and cautious CCW owner. He wasn't. Now this kid is dead.

Zimmerman needs to grow up, man up, and take responsibility for what he did that lead to the shooting death of a teenager who was initially just walking the hell home. The rest of you need to stop defending an irresponsible gun-owner for his horribly poor decisions.

If the media needs to start showing "updated" pictures of Martin, then they also need to show an "updated" picture of Zimmerman. The only photo they have shown of Zimmerman was a mug shot from 2005. If you look above at the video. Zimmerman isn't the obese person he is portrayed to be. Martin had no police record, Zimmerman does, however.

For the record, the state of Florida has already stated and confirmed that TRAYVON DOES NOT HAVE A JUVENILE OR CRIMINAL RECORD!!!

blacks screaming race again.... mainstream media not telling the whole story.... how about letting the judicial system make its decision?

I believe Zimmerman's Daddy already took care of the Judicial part.

For the record, what was Trayvons street name? It was reported that the gang he belonged to wanted the Black Panthers help them find Zimmerman. I don't have a criminal record, who the hell cares.

SEE I can make up sh*()t like you liers or Liberals.

I just want to see what happens if the Black Panthers do find George Zimmerman. Race Wars will occur.

John.......these types of incidence happen to most of the other "minorities", in this nation. Black people are rooted in the Constitution of this nation. We speak out and it helps all the other people. There is nothing wrong with that. Heck it has freed many countries in this world. How many people in this world would not be free, if they had not heard,"In America Black people are free"?

'

flexmind

For the record, what was Trayvons street name? It was reported that the gang he belonged to wanted the Black Panthers help them find Zimmerman. I don't have a criminal record, who the hell cares.

SEE I can make up sh*()t like you liers or Liberals.

I just want to see what happens if the Black Panthers do find George Zimmerman. Race Wars will occur.

1st: What is wrong with you, man? 2nd: This isn't 1968 the Black Panthers are all in there 60s and 70s now. 3rd: Yes there is the new black panthers who are very, very fringe. Nobody endorses them. Even the original members of the Black Panthers won't have anything to do with them.

In short, you are indeed making up stuff --fromway out of the blue. I have seen all the pictures and heard all the criticism from both sides and this is the first I have heard someone suggesting the boy actually had gang affiliations.

One other thing. Not everything is conservative verses liberal. If you think it is, than you are the problem with this country.

Or the fact that I believe that people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You believe in lynch mob mentality without facts and racist anger. Whats that about personality? Check yours!

The facts are there in the video...can't you see or are you so blind with hatred?

Ru and all Zimmerman supporters keep claiming "people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" - how true!! That's exactly the point. But for the public outcry regarding this case, Zimmerman would have never faced a jury in a court of law. Lest you forget, he was released with no charges pending while Trayvon was sent to the morgue where he lay for 3 days as a John Doe. There was little effort to investigate what had actually transpired as demonstrated by the fact that they didn't even bother to examine his cell phone in an attempt to determine who this John Doe was.

But what the heck, nobody was going to miss the likes of a Trayvon Martin anyway.

Justice will be served when a full and complete examination of all the evidence in this case is presented to a jury of Zimmerman's peers. Until that day, the public's outrage will continue.

I think there was racism in the shooting.

I do NOT think there is racism in the public reaction. I think many people positing here in outrage the death of this child are white. In the city where I live, lots of people are wearing tee shirts with Treyvon's picture on them, and many of them are white.

People in power want to turn this into a racial issue, but we need to be clear that while the crime may have been racial motivated, the response is decent people of all colors are angry and disgusted.

You believe in lynch mob mentality without facts and racist anger.

kind of a funny accusation to make while defending the actions of a hair-trigger vigilante.

RU CRAZY l believe people are innocent until proven guilty, I guess Trayvon wont get that chance now will he!!!

I didn't realize that paramedics were qualified to set a "broken nose". But I am sure the police have the crime scene photos they are required to take after a murder has been committed. You know: the ones of the corpse, the ones of the shooter claiming self-defense and the photographs that will support the shooter's claims. The murderer had a head injury according to him, so of course he would have been transported to a hospital as a precaution and as well to have his broken nose set.

Everyone is sure picking Zimmerman apart. How about we get a recent photo of Trayvon instead of one when he was 10 yrs old??? How about looking into his probs at school and with drugs, etc??? Does he have a criminal record?? Just askin........................................

I don't know if this is racial or not. I do know that you do not run a background check and request drug and alcohol testing on the dead victim and not on the gunman. Get real! The victim can be checked out any time, he isn't going anywhere. My concern would be with the man holding the gun. He says he was in fear of his life? Well why did he approach the kid after the 911 operator told him not to follow the kid. He notified the police, his job was done. From that point on, he was the insigator. Does the law says that I can go and attack someone and if they turn it around and start winning the fight that I started, that I can shoot him? Take the race issue out of this and look at it for what it is. This man should be being proscuted for Manslaughter at the very least! My son is white, but he has a black belt in Karate, was captain of the high school wrestling team and football team. He would not have run either. If Zimmerman approached him, he would have defended himself. This could have been my son! or maybe yours! My heart goes out to the parents and I offer my deepest sympathies to them. NOW PUT THIS GUY IN JAIL WHERE HE BELONGS AND GET IT OVER WITH!

If Sanford, FL cops don't arrest this SOB for murder there will be a huge price to pay---and I don't mean money. The black community will show it's outrage and exact revenge with acts of violence. I hope it doesn't come to this and the ball is in Sanford PD's and the prosecutors' court

USA1967: There ARE pics released of Martin at age 17. Why not complain about the pics of Zimmerman from at least 5 years ago or more that are released? I guess that's ok but not ok in reverse? If you want to start talking about criminal records Zimmerman has one, including assault on a police officer while he was in a bar and I believe one for domestic violence though I'm not sure about the latter.

So you are saying blame the victim? The unarmed 17 year person who was followed and shot?

This shouldn't be about race. If a wannabe cop 'Neighborhood Watch' guy(of whatever race) with a gun can pursue and shoot an unarmed 17-yr-old(of whatever race) and just claim self defense and walk away, our "society" is way out of hand.

Maybe everyone missed Nancy Grace where it was pointed out that the orange jump suit is what felons wear while incarcerated - they have lost the right to own a gun. Why does this guy even have a gun?

Although the video doesn't show OBVIOUS injuries, it is certainly not definitive enough to say there were none. The police officers on the scene noted that zimmerman's back was wet ("As if he'd been laying on his back on the grass") and he was bleeding from his nose and on the back of his head. Just because there is no visible blood in the video doesn't mean the cops were lying. He WAS cleaned up and given first aid at the scene, and not all bleeding injuries leave stains on your clothes, etc. I personally have had head wounds that bled but did not get on my clothes. I am SURE the police department took pictures of any injuries on George Zimmerman as part of their investigation and the injuries, if they exist, are documented. The problem is, this is called "evidence" and police departments don't trot it out when someone is being tried in the media or the court of public opinion.

Maybe it IS time for the police department to show the public all the REAL evidence in this case, because at this point, they are allowing the media to conduct a "trial" in the court of public opinion showing ONLY evidence to support the verdict they want reached.

In the call Zimmerman made to police, he didn't mention Travon's color until the dispatcher asked for a description of the person, and the dispatcher prompted by asking, "Can you tell me what he looks like? Is he white? Hispanic?" At that point, Zimmeran says, "He looks black."

Of course, when MSNBC first ran the "transcript" of the call, they had Zimmerman saying, "He looks like he's up to no good... He looks black." This was completely out of context and of course they did this for a reason; specifically to inflame passions and misrepresent the call to make it LOOK like Zimmerman was concerned becuase there was a black person in the neighborhood. As we now come to find out, this "gated community" was very diverse and there are lots of minorities who live there (only 40% white). But again, this fact doesn't support the conclusion we are supposed to arrive at, so it was ommitted.

I think they are missing the point. If Trayvon had been caught literally red-handed committing a crime, it still does not give the wannabe police officer the right to shoot him in UNLESS Trayvon truly did attack him. More evidence is revealing that Trayvon was the innocent victim of zimmerman's overblown ego and predjudice. More lies from zimmerman are being revealed. Is there a doctor or ER staff that is coming forward to confirm that zimmerman was treated for a broken nose and a head injury? X-rays, CT scan, EEG? Wouldn't someone who had hit his head on the ground that hard, or was struck on the back of his head need medical attention? Trayvon could have been the worst criminal in the world, it still does not justify zimmerman's actions.

Sorry jamey-370955, but your "I didn't realize that paramedics were qualified to set a "broken nose" theory is weak. I had rhinoplasty to fix a broken nose at 31 and the surgeon said that I had broken it already a couple times in the past that I never realised. So there are different levels of broken noses, it is not like you see in the movies. And I remember getting clocked in the nose years before that and I can tell you first hand that a good punch to the nose will leave you incapacitated for a few seconds. Enough time for someone to jump on you and kick your a$$.

sandtrich.....................so, even if Z is proven innocent they better hang him so the blacks won't riot?????? Great, just great!!!

The incredible irony of this entire situation is that if Trayvon Martin, being followed by an armed, unidentified man, had turned around and put a K-Bar in Zimmerman's heart, he would have been protected under Florida's, "stand your ground," law.

I would say black folks should arm themselves against this sort of series of events, because they aren't going to be protected by the athorities of Florida.

Good on barack, I couldn't have said it better.

Listen up all you white "taxpaying" haters, you need to follow the lead of your supreme leader Obama. Remember right after the Ft. Hood massacre he said "let's don't jump to conclusions."

@sarah-3519311

" Lest you forget, he was released with no charges pending"

There STILL are no charges pending. There is a current investigation under way.

Why is everyone calling for Zimmerman to be arrested - under what charge? The investigation needs to be completed FIRST, if there is evidence that he has committed a crime, they will charge him. If the evidence shows that he did not commit a crime, he stays free - and everyone that has been calling him out should apologize.

None of this matters until the investigation is completed. All everyone (myself included) can do in the meantime is make assumptions on what has been leaked to the media. And the media is reporting conflicting reports - I don't know what is true - nobody outside the investigation has any true facts.

allison...............there may be pic's of trayvon at 17 yrs old but good ol PMSNBC never uses them. Typical liberal rag....no facts, just hype.

@SamBrown-that may have been the first and only sensible comment on this entire comment section.

usa1967

You must not have watched the video very closely. But you haven't a need to right. There were pictures for you to see of Trayvon if you cared to look,Just 9(nine)days before. I do not think much of you at all. Even with no bandages or blood on Zimmerman'shirt (which SHOULD be there ) or what of no bandage on the back of his head to cover that GASH he claimed to have from the concret that he his head was smashed on? ANd the funeral home that took in trayvon's body, they saw NO evidence to the boy(young mans) hands that would have shown he was in a fight. OH right that was an oversight not necessary to the case it was never there in the first place
And of the comment below that you state of DRUGS A baggie is now drugs YOU MAKE ME SICK with your 45 yr. old thinking SIR. The past is just that and they did a DRUG TEST (TOXICOLOGY TEST ON YOUNG Trayvon bet NOT GEORG ZIMMERMAN so please SSSHHH

"People in power want to turn this into a racial issue, but we need to be clear that while the crime may have been racial motivated, the response is decent people of all colors are angry and disgusted."

Patter, you need to go back over the last few weeks and read the news articles and posts on this forum. Racism was assumed from the very beginning, and posts calling the "stand your ground" law a law that "allows white people to kill black people with impunity". Even the parents (although I make concessions for them due to grief and rage) started the diatribe with cries of racism, and other total strangers, completely unrelated to the incident or the family and with no actual knowledge whatsoever about the case, loudly echoed the same racist rants. Then add the incendiary $10,000 "bounty" by the New Black Panthers. The people in power didn't turn it into a racial issue, the mob mentality did.

I agree that decent people of every color are incensed, but the mob mentality has the potential to interfere with a fair, factual, coldly analytical study in a court of law. Think OJ Simpson.

A little late to the game eh usa? All the questions you asked have already been answered. How about a recent photo of Trayvon you ask, couldn't be bothered to even read the article either I see.

First we hear that he is sent home from the scene, then we see he was actually taken into custody and questioned.. Because he was not immediately charged means nothing as they might charge him at any time in the future because there is no statute of limitations on homicide.. Until they get evidence to satisfy a DA that it is chargeable as homicide it is required to be listed as a fatal shooting.. Just because he was more suspicious of Black men being prone to criminal activity means nothing.. Just because he used vulgar language during a heated moment means nothing as adrenaline commonly causes this.. The teen was examined by someone and I assume that was the coroner who has a pending blood test for drugs.. We do not know the contents of that report or whether he checked the hands.. People with darker skin do not show redness or mild bruising like Caucasians do so the skin would have to be retracted.. The young man was said to be involved in high school athletics?? If so he would have been in fit condition and must have had a powerful punch I would think..

So the undertaker is playing coroner now and only white people can be prejudice.. Are you aware that the emergency room does not do repairs of this nature.. I know of none that will set a broken nose, arm or leg.. They will verify and immobilize then refer you to a plastic surgeon or orthopaedic specialist.. If you are lucky one will be at the hospital or on call.. If not they hold the critical and release the walking wounded to see a doctor of their choosing in the next few days.. My nose was broken by a bully in school and it did not bleed but it hurt like hell so the school nurse put an ice pack on it and I saw the family doctor the next day.. All the doctor did was stuff some cotton in my nose till it looked straight and put a few pieces of tape on it.. The paramedic who treated him at the scene should make a treatment report that he would have to sign releasing the city or county from liability.. So if the unraceist people who say they want justice would stop calling out the lynch mob and contributing to a death bounty long enough to let the laws of the state of Florida handle it the rest of us who respect the law would be happy.. Are the laws perfect? NO.. Do Seldom injustices happen on both sides of the coin? YES.. Is it the best thing we have to maintain a civilized society? YES.. Is Spike Lee an A$$HOLE? YES YES.. I am not inclined to judge by circumstantial evidence or public opinion but the bloodthirsty sheep seem OK with that.. Civilized people do not riot or flash mob a business.. It is not illegal to follow someone or ask someone a question.. It is also not illegal to call someone a name although this is seldom productive..

agreed - I have my own opinion but, it' just an opinion not weighted in facts at all.

I agree they could have cleaned him up but I dont think Police First Aid kits are equipped to treat lacerations to the head though. If he was that bloodied and beaten why didnt he seek medical help? An article I read said he refused medical attention. I dnt see any open gashes like his lawyer claimed. And by the way I thought it was protocol for officers to photograph injuries before cleaning up the suspect/victim...

The Way they Lawyers and the original police statements described Zimmerman's injuries I was expecting to see them helping a bloodied and beaten man into the station. George looks perfectly fine to me.. especially for a man with a broken nose.

I referee the men's bball intramural games at school, so I've seen my share of broken noses. They will literally tell you it HURTS TO BREATHE. George looks a lil too calm and laid back to have just been beaten up by a thug...

I am trying to view this story as unbiased as possible. But things arent seeming to add up..

ok now let's try a bit of COMMON SENSE:

if there were stitches we would see a bandage, a large bleeding wound, or stitches themselves.

NOPE

and how about that broken nose?

NOPE

there is one thing that will destroy the credibility of any testimony:

LIES

that murderer is an animal- i wouldn't be surprised if he had planned this murder in his head beforehand. i think he must have been 'sure' this was the thief he was looking for, because crazy people with no sense always think they are smarter than everyone else. unfortunately i've dealt with crazies like that myself who had the laws protection due to family or other mafiosa like web... if the criminal looks like a stereotype the cops are quick to press charges, but if he looks like one of their boys (or is one) they can and easily will make sure it doesn't go anywhere. the justice system in this country is screwed up beyond belief; the gop wants it that way, and the dems, beholden to lawyers, aint gonna fix it either.

Daniel, "one of there boys"?!?! The Latino race is now the staple of cop "protection"? Zimmerman isn't white. Is your racism clouding your viewpoint much?

his dad is a former chief of police. and he is a 'neighborhood watch' "chief"

who called 911 over 30 times a day it is said.

please research some facts before you stick your foot all the way up in that dirty mouth orifice of yours again

Oh Ru, nice try, but... Zimmerman IS white - look at the friggin' pictures! He is also Hispanic. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Race is always played when the media and lynch mobs dont have the facts. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and charged in a court of law.

I bet you're the lousy cop that helped him concoct the lies. It won't work Bud. Sorry!

i worked for the census many times-

according to the US Government there are white latinos,

and black latinos. this is government categorization we are talking about.

its irrelevant. anyone can be prejudiced. even there are some black people

who are terribly prejudiced against most other black people. then, hitler was

part jewish- obviously he was racist against jews (and everyone else he could be for that matter)

you need to understand also the distinction between prejudice and racist.

anyone can be prejudiced against anyone. racism is that, but additionally

implies an ethnically based balance of power. so in this case, the killer

would definitely have been racist, as he had prejudiced beliefs (that the boy was

guilty because of how he looked) and the state apparatus of the police which

apparently put the social power dynamic on his side. note that by saying the killer

is DEFINITIVELY racist it does not necessarily follow the he hates ALL black people.

but thats not necessarily the question here. and who am i kidding; none of you loonies

who need to understand this have the intellectual capacity to understand what i'm saying anyhow...

Jerzzey Girl said:

The Way they Lawyers and the original police statements described Zimmerman's injuries I was expecting to see them helping a bloodied and beaten man into the station.

See below the clip from Officer Timothy Smith, the first officer on the scene:

I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

If there were lacerations the officers would have noted it. If Zimmerman was bleeding profusely, they would have noted it too--we all know that head wounds, even small ones, bleed profusely when they are inflicted. For the officer to comment that he was simply 'bleeding' indicates (to me) that he didn't consider it serious.

I can buy the fact that paramedics cleaned him up, but did they also bring him a change of clothes? Where are the grass and blood stains? If someone has a broken nose and a head laceration, there will be at least some blood on that person's clothing. And I would have expected a bandage of some kind on the head wound, at least. I don't know if Zimmerman is a racist, but I definitely think the Sanford police either botched the job or fixed things for Judge Zimmerman's boy.

A fire dept. EMT gave him first aid. He was well enough for transport so the police took him in.

flbikerchick The grass stains were observed on his "BACK"..he didn't say the back of the jacket....the cop removed the gun and holster...it doesn't say he saw the stains on his clothes...you are struggling on your back with another person on top of you and you shirt and jacket will slide up. And what you might "expect" is immaterial...The FBI has now had the case for some time and there's still no arrest...if so many of you are so sure of all your facts and how this case should be handled, maybe you should contact the FBI and tell them their business. This whole tragedy has as many sides as a multi-faceted diamond....people WANT Zimmerman to be guilty because he a racist pig...other WANT Trayvon to be this bad black dude who got what he deserved....NONE of us know the whole story except that we now have a young man dead and another man whose actions have ruined his whole life. It's apparent from these posts that anybody out there can take the information and misinformation out there and twist it to their own little agenda....shame on all of you

JerzzeyGirl07111

#4.2

I agree they could have cleaned him up but I dont think Police First Aid kits are equipped to treat lacerations to the head though.

F.Y.I. - Zimmerman was treated by the Sanford Fire Department, not the Police.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

Did they forget to put on a bandaid?

What is the time stamp of this video?

Did they stop by the cleaners to wash his clothes before heading to the station?

Why did the fight take place behind the houses if TM alledged attacked GZ while he waited peacefully by his car?

Why was TM found dead faced down???

Was the bullet found?

This whole case stinks to high heaven.

When you have a broken nose that's bleeding badly gauze is stuffed into the nostrils and the nose maybe straighten with a support! I see neither was done to zimmerman, now that's odd!

George Zimmerman has a Caucasian father and a Hispanic mother.

If Zimmerman's nose was broken, there must be a diagnosis of a broken nose somewhere (an official report). Where is the blood on the shirt? Did the police allow him to change his clothes "too", before taking him to the police station

Why are there no official pictures of Zimmerman's "supposed injuries"? What are we going to find out next about this case that can be explained away by Zimmerman's gang of protectors. There is a moment during the police video showing the back of Zimmerman's head. There are no signs of bruising, inflammation, cuts, dirt, anything. Why weren't there pictures taken to bolster his allegations of the incident (crime)?

What the heck is really going on here? With every piece of new evidence and witnesses (that can be proven with the 911 tapes and video), there is a new story by Zimmerman or one of his "buddies?". I'm not happy with what Spike Lee did. I'm definitely against what this new black panther group is trying to do. I'm just as disgusted with the investigation into this case.

Yes, Mr. Coate, prejudice comes in all shades and colors. I've experience prejudices on the job and at home (quite often from my own people) for one reason or another. I've experienced racism from a Mexican American who viewed herself as white. I've watched certain family members make racial comments due to color. I am a Black female, a mother, a grandmother, a person, and I'm totally disgusted.

This want- to -be cop ZIMMERMAN has no cuts or bruises anywhere , not on face, nor on that BIG head that was banged against the sidewalk several times so he said , the way he jumped out of the police car there was no signs that he had been" BEAT UP" ,or in a fight . he WALKED, he STALKED TRAYVON shot him in "COLD BLOOD" now other's like his 'so call' friend and his FATHER who is a former JUDGE is TALKING saying what his son told him.Just think if TRAYVON had shot a dog he would have been arrested and probably beaten by the police that same night......I see why ZIMMERMAN is still out walking; talking and if not arrested he will be stalking again and shooting someone else walking "BLACK" ... I now see why he didn' go to jail the night he SHOT TRAYVON .....HIS FATHER IS A FORMER JUDGE!!!!!!!!!...need I say more...

Amanda-2017567: If there were lacerations the officers would have noted it. If Zimmerman was bleeding profusely, they would have noted it too--we all know that head wounds, even small ones, bleed profusely when they are inflicted.

Wrong: I have had my skull broken by a guy who hit me with a steel bar on top of my head. Causing my skull to be crushed open. It only bleed like a small cut and it was not in tell paramedics showed up and examined me that they noticed that 1. I had a major concussion and 2. That I would need to go to the hospital to have x-rays and a Kat scan done. I was at the hospital for about 3-1/2 hours and was released to a friend to take me home. Do to I could not drive with a concussion.

I also had the front of my skull cracked open when I was in the USMC. I have to this day a 1 Centimeter hole in my skull located between my eyes. My sinus cavity was disintegrated by the accident. So I cant smell **** or taste food that good. That injury when it happened, only bleed a little too.

I also have had my noses broken 3 times and none of thoses bleed that much too.

My point is Amanda-2017567 everyone is different on how well there bodies deal with damage. If you cut yourself down to the bone with a knife do you need to go to the hospital do to it will not stop bleeding?

For me if I cut myself to the bone, I normally do not need to go to the hospital. Why all I have to do is press the skin together, put some tissue paper on the cut. Wait about 5 minutes and my wound will have closed by that time.

So to say look at ZIM in this picture, sorry it works both ways the picture does not prove ****. Its to far back, he is wearing red and unless you had a closes up picture of his nose for all we know he might have a piece of gause up his noses. To far to bases any judgement on his condition.

I have had worse like my skull crushed in by a bar and unless you got with in 2 feet of me and was looking right at it, you would then see the injury after being patched up. If not you would never know that I had a major head injury.

I've not been able to follow this story all the way through, only for the last few days because I was out of the country.

I think the real problem now for Zimmerman was the over-confidence of the people trying to keep him from being charged. I don't believe they ever anticipated the fire storm that was going to occur over this incident.

I guess they're just not paying attention to what's going on all over the world. People are getting wise to and tired of these antics. People feel like the justice system in this country is easily manipulated to benefit people that have connections. They think exceptions get made for people with those connections. This case pushes that envelope right out past everything else that's similar to it. Somehow a Neighborhood Watch person winds up killing an unarmed black kid with a pistol shot/shots, I don't know which it was. The whole deal is over in a few hours....case closed. If I'm reading things right, the dead kid wasn't even identified until three days later? The shooter...Zimmerman....gets released after some one in the police department wants him brought up on charges. Apparently the decision to not file charges was made by someone from the States Attorney's office because they had reservations about the Stand Your Ground Provision. Now we learn that the shooter is the son of a Retired Federal Magistrate. Hmmm. I'm now very interested.

One question I'd like to have answered is if Zimmermans phone was used to make any calls between the time of the shooting and the time the police arrived. If so....who did he call. Another thing I'd like to know....while being questioned, who exactly did the questioning? Were there others present, and how were the questioned asked? Could there have been any coaching going on along with the interogation?

I know these question I ask are inflamatory as regards to the police interogators, but I feel this case is just too neat and tidy for a kid to be dead with mountains of questions unanswered. It seems every little facet of information that comes out in this case has to be gotten with great effort. It is explained that information is limited because it's a police investigation.....there's a blanket that covers a lot of area. I believe it is only because of the persistence of people to get to bottom of this case that it's still even an issue.

I don't believe that people handling this case ever had any idea that weeks later it would be top billing in the news. They weren't prepared for the questions and outcry over this. I think that pressure to help a Retired Federal Judge's kid coupled with the confidence that this would just be swept under the rug has causd some very major problems for them now. I'd bet there are a lot of knotted stomachs and sleepless nights as this issue plays out. I believe in the end this will be brushed off with some finding of procedural error, but that will never undo the the damage done to a country that's already become suspicious of the way things are done.

johnnyt: Before asking questions about this since you say you have been out of Country how about doing some research into this and looking at the last several days news stories on this incident and what people put.

1st off its been shown that the police wanted to charge ZIM but the DA refused too.

2nd Zimmermans phone was used to make any calls between the time of the shooting and the time the police arrived. Yes he was using his phone its been documented about 1 million times he was talking with 911 from start to when the police showed up.

3rd Quit trying to say they are trying to cover it up, there are not. Its been documented that ZIM did follow 911 request to stop following the kid. Zim was on his way back to his vehicle when attacked by the kid. Eye witness statements say the kid was on top of ZIM hitting ZIM. Thats when ZIM shot him. Was the uses of Deadly force lawful that has not been answered.

Now people are looking at this bad picture of ZIM after the incident saying I dont see any injuries. NO kidding. Its too far back, the picture is not that great. Zim has already been treated. So unless you can get a good up closes picture you will not see any injuries.

Leatherneck918 - You sound like a walking accident! Are you a friend of George Zimmerman? You and him sound like 2 peas in a pod with your head injuries and all. I guess anyone who has had their head cracked open and their "noses" broken so many times is an expert.

Kiersten-3646888: No I dont know GZ, I dont live in Florida sweetheart. Most of my injuries I got while serving in the USMC or at work. How about you sweetheart, ever do a dangerous job before or are you one of those people who only worked behind a desk or stay at home mom?

My point Kiersten is everyone body is different and how your body or my body deals with damage might be and possibly are totaly different.

John, let's explain how this usually works.

First when you kill someone, in self defense or in cold blood, you are arrested. Zimmerman was obviously arrested by this video.

Next you are processed, your clothes are taken into evidence for GSR and blood samples and you are held until your court date or until you make bail. Here is where Zimmerman's train ends. The cops had no intention of holding him and you can tell this because of the stupid cop on the left of the video searching Zimmerman with no gloves on; this is video evidence of the cops contaminating the jacket by not wearing gloves and touching it. That alone can get you suspended.

After you have been held till your court date, or gotten out on bail, you have your day in court where you try to prove that your use of self defense was justified and the prosecuters try to prove that it was not.

After all of the witnesses and evidence is tromped before them the jury then goes into recess and your fate is decided.

None of these last three happened in Zimmerman's case. The police decided that they were going to bypass the jury and went straight to the AG, the one that was forced to step down, who gave Zimmerman a free pass. Zimmerman deserves his due process as does Martin but what happened was anything but due process, which is the reason the FBI are now involved.

2nd Zimmermans phone was used to make any calls between the time of the shooting and the time the police arrived. Yes he was using his phone its been documented about 1 million times he was talking with 911 from start to when the police showed up.

The part I bolded is 100% not true. No explanation needed.

Its been documented that ZIM did follow 911 request to stop following the kid.

no it hasn't. And if he stopped following him when Martin ran away, then why was the body so far from the street and presumably Zimmerman's car. The fight took place in a backyard between two rows of townhomes (down a side walkway, and around a corner), physical evidence supports the notion that Zimmerman DID NOT stop following Martin.

Zim was on his way back to his vehicle when attacked by the kid.

That's what Zimmerman claims, but we don't know if it's true. However, again, due to the location of the fight and the body, this claim seems highly, highly suspect.

The body was between 1231 Twin Trees Lane and 2821 Retreat View circle (in a backyard between two rows of townhomes). Go look at a map and tell me again how Zimmerman was waiting patiently at his car for police to arrive when Martin "jumped" him. Oh, and turn on the satellite imagery and be sure to note all the spectacular hiding places in the backyard that Martin could have used to "jump" Zimmerman as he turned the corner (note: there aren't any).

For me if I cut myself to the bone, I normally do not need to go to the hospital. Why all I have to do is press the skin together, put some tissue paper on the cut. Wait about 5 minutes and my wound will have closed by that time.

Do you always pretend your name is Wolverine?

DrowningGrover: Hey tool it like this he is told to stop following he is at A location his car is at C location he starts to head back to his vehicle, the kid confronts Zim at B location do to Zim has not made it back to his vehicle yet. No where did I say or the news say Zim ever made it back to his vehicle when the kid jumped him. Now do you understand or do I need to brake out peace of paper and pencil and draw a picture for you so you can understand something so ****ing simple?

NYMike: hey ignorant one I said closed, not healed. Meaning it will not bleed any more, unless I reopen it up and will not require stitches. Do you understand what I put genius now or do I need to talk to you in as I would a 4 year old for you to figure it out????

or would you rather put more stupid idiotic posts do to you cant understand something so ****ing simple? Might want to take a survival class some time on how to fix yourself if in the middle of now where by yourself and you hurt yourself and dont have the proper medical items to fix yourself. You might find out that if you apply enough pressure to a deep cut and hold it in place for awhile. Your skin can be made to close if done right.

"And if Zimmerman was a black man this case would never draw the attention of anyone."

Well, duh, because he'd be in prison by now. Really don't get it, do you? America doesn't need to be saved from Jackson or Sharpton, it needs to be saved from racists who call fighting for civil rights "racist."

The reason it would not draw attention is that Black man would have been arrested .... See the difference?

You are right gatorboy. If both of these guys were black it wouldn't draw any attention because Zimmerman would have been arrested and his stupid ass locked up like he should have been in the first place. Unfortunately the police decided to treat this as another black thug getting what he deserved for existing and looking suspicious to a Rambo white man!!

I think Martin was confronted and attacked by Zimmerman and merely trying to defend himself. Even if Zimmerman had injuries it only means that Martin was trying to defend himself from some nut thug that was stalkinh him with a weapon. I would try to defend myself too.

Gutter Boy: If zimmerman were black and TM white, Zimmerman would already be in jail with no bail DUMB A$$

Really? Then why have the two black guys that set a 13 yea old white kid on fire in Kansas City, Mo Mar.5,12, NOT been arrested and charged? And Zimmerman is Hispanic. DUMB A$$

Innocent until proven guilty? That may be true but what about the fact that Zimmerman did not assume Martin was innocent until proven guilty? This shoot first ask questions later garbage has got to stop.

PRober, blaise-2933064

This has nothing to do with black or white. There is something else going on here such as his family has money or he has friends in the system. I am white and I would be in jail now and that's a fact. So why don't the baby racists on both sides quit whining.

This is about a kid getting shot and Florida having a law that says one can create all the circumstances of a situation and then cry self defense. This needs to be about getting that kid justice and seeing that law changed so it does not happen to anyone else.

If Zimmerman were black, he would have been arrested right after the shooting.. Who are you trying to kid here...

Funny thing is, we had a playground shooting here in Florida. The man shot was white, in front of his 4 yr old daughter, in a public playground. The shooter was black, approached the man the same way Zimmerman approached Trayvon. No charges were filed. This whole black/white thing doesn't hold water; the "race card" itself is racist. Blanket statements about racial inequality are inaccurate and intended only to increase division on the subject. You ALL are being told what to think; Think I'll just wait to see what the court says.

All "hoodies" are dangerous to society and we need to be protected from them gator boy? Fine, then society needs to take down every white man in a tshirt cos they're probably pedophiles. (and statistically pedophiles are more likely white than black.) Zimmerman convicted Martin not the press. Imagine for one moment what is must've been like for Martin to be followed by someone he didn't know? If stand your ground applies to anyone it is Martin. A pursuer is the aggressor.

You all don't get it do you. If he was black it wouldn't get the attention because in the black community, you don't snitch on each other. Killing each other is fine, its just a crime when someone outside the community pulls the trigger. Am I right? Clean up the community and don't stand for black on black crime and maybe those outside of the community would back the black community up like it should. I know this is a harsh statement, but I believe it needs to be said.

That being said, when the investigation is done, I do believe justice will be served. Either Zimmerman will be arrested and charged with that young mans death, or it will be found that he did in fact act in self defense. Hopefully the right thing will happen, but if not, please stop using this as a racist card. I'm not your enemy, the justice system is. Stop using the word "white" for "government" or "legal system". I mean, OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony are prime examples to how the system is flawed, and it does not discriminate.

james..............that is BS. The law, as written, would treat him the same, black or white. This race baiting crap has got to stop.

I want to chime in for just a moment! First of all, people keep saying that Zimmerman is "white" for the record, he is "Hispanic!" Zimmerman may have defended himself, Trayvon may have been defending himself. None of us really know the facts of this case, and for anyone to assume anything is just as unjust as the next person. I do believe that Zimmerman needs to make this clear truthfully and I am sickened by how the family has made this a "RACIAL" case just to draw attention. It shows the mindset of how clear racism still exist and how shallow people are. If my child died at the hands of a gunman, no matter who they were, I would want justice as well. I wouldn't make this case a "High profile racist issue!" This is exactly why racism will never die and things are only going to get worse because too many people, from all races believe they are too superior, or are owed something!

You know, its not too much to ask that a child's killer be investigated in-depth, but why bring race into it? Seriously, I am sick of hearing it! I am glad I do not fit into that category or class of people who teach their children about hate, racism, and how to keep it going! The best of luck to the family from both sides!

MePhDwee: white victims got alot of media attention every day. Natalee Holloway, Amber DuBois, The Petit Family, Chelsea King, Caylee Anthony to name a few. How many black victims get that much media attention? Shaniya Davis may be the closest as far as media attention in that group goes that I listed above though I'm sure not everyone here has even heard of her. Does anyone know of a famous murder case in the press involving an Asian victim for example? The outrage in the Martin case is that there was no due process. You can't just take someone's word for it that it was self-defense without due process. You plea a defense at trial not on a sidewalk.

NO ONE doing Neighborhood Watch should be carrying a gun while performing their "duty"! That's what the police are for! Pepper spray would be much more appropriate, if you feel you must protect yourself. Trayvon was presumed guilty (of what, I have NO idea) by Zimmerman until proven innocent. The criminal justice system states the exact opposite. A "suspect" is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Trayvon never had a chance! This is murder, any way you bleeping slice it! PLEASE sign Trayvon's online petition at change.org!!!

Falling Down, excellent comment. I pray that people will calm down and use their heads over this issue. Let the lawyers compile the evidence and let Zimmerman have his day(s) in court. The more people over react, the more "cloudy" they can affect the decision. We need real justice in this case not a lynch mob. And I am praying for both families. The torment must be horrendous.

He has to be arrested before he can have his day in court.

I broke my nose a few years ago and once the bleeding stopped you couldn't tell. Also a concussion does not have outward signs. the media and certain people are trying to lynch this guy without bothering to find the facts. MSNBC should be ashamed of them selves. If more violence comes out of this they will be partly to blame.

gatorboy

And if Zimmerman was a black man this case would never draw the attention of anyone.

And if Zimmerman were black, Trayvon Martin would be alive because Zimmerman - by your hypothesis now a black man - would not have seen Trayvon Martin as suspicious, would he? He would not have approached him, would not have confronted him, would not have fought with him - would not have shot the child to death.

Your argument is kind of like saying that, had the bullets in the gun been made of peanut butter, Trayvon would still be alive - unless of course he was allergic to peanuts. I mean seriously, gatorboy, wtf?

No matter your personal take on this, I find it pretty hard to believe that the police would take an assault victim that had to kill somone and was wounded in the process straight to the police station.

My brother is a cop so I am well aware that a person that has been injured (even in the persuit) of a crime, will get medical attention first. A broken nose would require medical attention and bleed badly. I could see no blood on him anywhere. Front, face or the back of his head.

I am assuming of course that there was no medical attention give the absence of bandges where he claims to have been injured.

Hispanics are considered Caucasian.

Typically, the race of the victim is the determining factor in whether or not an arrest is made. If the victim is white, the chance is statistically much greater that there will be an arrest than if the victim is black, regardless of the race of the killer.

Don, you are right on the money! I definitely cannot imagine how both side feels. I'm praying for both of them. It really doesn't matter what race either party is and I wish we would stop using that as amo. It only gets people riled up and not for the right reasons. It causes a division where there shouldn't be. Our supposed role models have not been helping either. The point is that an unarmed kid was shot by an armed vigilante claiming self defense. Try saying that out loud a couple times and see how your perspective changes.

no matter! what every body says a death is a death white or black or brown or yellow.has any body said what the guy was doing out there at night ? My believe is that night time is for sleeping unless you have bad intentions then night time is the best time

Could that have something to do with gang violence in the black community? No one wanting to snitch, no one wanting to stand up to black on black crime?

@ Gatorboy... I've worn hoodies, still do, love them. My son is 9 and 4 and they also have very nice ones. I hope you don't have a gun and we run into you because you may shoot us and say we are part of the "Hoodie Gang"

Is that what you really mean or you were not really reading what you wrote.

oh man! that's sad! that not even a death of somebody can bring out the good

in some people. I guess they were not good people to begin with.

Allison Jaynevia Facebook

Innocent until proven guilty? That may be true but what about the fact that Zimmerman did not assume Martin was innocent until proven guilty? This shoot first ask questions later garbage has got to stop.

#5.8

More than one witness says Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him when Zimmerman shot him. It reminds me of something I once heard. "When you are up to your ass in alligators it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." I suspect Zimmerman's primary concern at the time was to get Martin off him

Zimmerman is a liar. He went after this unarmed kid with a gun and murdered him. Worse is the police handling of this case. Wonder if there are any relations within the department because that is the only explanation for the police reaction.

Isn't it usually white folks who complain about blacks bringing guns to fist fights?

I guess black on black crime is not a kind of racism, cause some black are darker than others I wish the race card was not the issue.

The only role "white people" are playing in this is the role of observing racism. A hispanic man shot a black kid. No Caucasion in this formula.

The entire reason for the 2nd amendment is so that we have the right to patrol our neighborhoods carrying a firearm. If you don't like the rights that our forefathers wrote into our constitution, get the F out please, thank you.

It is funny how a predominantly black or hispanic neighborhood is accepted as "dangerous" to any other race because showing up at night, walking the neighborhood wearing a hoody is probably going to get you shot, but when a black kid wearing a hoody, walking a gated neighborhood that is not racially biased, he should have been able to do so freely without any danger whatsoever? Talk about double standards. The fact is, if I, as a "white" person, went stolling through a "black" neighborhood at night, wearing clothes suitable for a burglar, after houses had recently been broken into, it would be surprising if I wasn't harassed, followed, confronted, assaulted, or shot. I would EXPECT IT. And IF something like that happened and it gained national attention, black people would just write it off, saying "that white guy had no business being there, and what did he think would happen.."

Sorry, but I have no doubts whatsoever that MOST cases where a black kid walking in a black neighborhood and getting shot does not end in the shooter going to jail. Either "nobody saw anything", "it was gang violence", or "it was self defense". No national attention, no news, and that would be it. Come on, how many 17 year old black kids were shot last week at night? I couldn't tell you, because it didn't make the news, but I bet it was more than 5.

If you don't think this is about racism, you are probably the racist. The guy isn't in jail because what he did was legal, and there is supporting evidence to prove it. You don't think that after the national attention this has seen, that these cops haven't meticulously gone over the evidence over and over to make 100% sure the story is true? seriously, you really think that there is some grand "anti-black" conspiracy going all the way to the top to cover up this "crime" and let the hispanic walk free? Come on, really?

My own son dropped out of school from drug use, and was kicked out of his mother's house for it. I know the type.. he did shady things, he got into a lot of fights, he was a "thug", and if he had been caught in the wrong neighborhood and someone followed and questioned him, he would have turned on the guy and jumped him.. If I expect my own son to do this, why wouldn't I expect a similar kid to do the same in the same situation? I am just glad my own son never got shot or knifed because of what he said or did. If he had, I would be mad if the guy walked, but frankly, I would probably be wrong, because I believe people have the right to protect their neighborhood and question anyone who shouldn't be there.

Hey Mars you are right - racism is alive and well, however its not a one way street. Funny how MSNBC is not carrying this story: Shawn Tyson is a 17 year old black male (or as you race baiters would say "an innocent little child"). Two British tourists got lost and accidentally wandered into the housing project where Tyson lived. Witnesses testified that Tyson told them he saw two "crackers" -- a derogatory term for white people -- walking through the neighborhood and that he intended to rob them. The tourists said they didn't have any money and begged Tyson to let them go home. The men also told Tyson they were lost. "Since you ain't got no money, then I have something for your ass," Tyson recounted to a witness, then added that he shot the men several times.

Or how about the "innocent children" from North Miami High School who staged an en mass walk out of class in "support" of Trayvon Martin ... then promptly staged an en mass wild and savage looting of the Walgreens across the street. More than 100 students who were shouting for "justice for Trayvon" gang rushed the Walgreens and looted the daylights out of it.

Oh, but that's ok - they are just children...

Mars, YOUR racist hate is showing. Let me suggest you go do some homework and read some history AND stop using the words "white people!"

Are Jews white?

marsblackman u r one of the worst kinds of racists!!! Y is it that when a white or brown person does something to a black person the black person SCREAMS racism??? Not all, but most black ppl r more racist than white and brown put together!!! Its a shame that when violence happens u have to think its a racist thing! As far as the first black president, he is hated and threatened because he is a jack@ss, whiny crybaby that wants to control EVERYTHING and not let the american ppl have the right to choose what they want. He is destroying this country and sits back and laughs. He could care less, and it shows! Hes not hated for being black. I am not racist, and I do not care what color the president is!

Falling down, I totally agree with you!! Both families have got to be absolutely mortified by what has happened, but before everyone has zimmerman strapped into "old sparky" lets get all the facts first please. RIP TM, good luck GZ

Yeah, it is sad, because the police didn't do their job.

Or - are they? They have more facts than we do. Time will tell. Justice will be served.

i kinda feel like they know a heckload more about it than you do,

as they in their line of work have much experienced with the deceased,

while you yourself only see dead people before you eat them

So seeing thousands of bodies don't qualify him to make an assessment? They asked him about physical evidence like scrapes on his knuckles not technical like DNA ..... Duuuh

thank you rick, its ridiculous how they pick at straws to defend a child killer

that ru dude just doesn't know when he's been made a fool of

Daniel i see everybodies opinion but yours is wrong, explain to me what made you such an expert on from what i have read, everything! you have no idea what the actual facts are in this case only what the media has reported, so for you to rip on all of the other people on here really makes you look like the idiot that you claim everybody else is! By the way, i have a question for all of the other people on here, What was Spike Lee's possible motive for putting what he thought was Zimmermans address on his twitter acct?

Daniel, seems like you are the fool here, textbook case of "white guilt". Were you there at the crime scene? Why don't you just let the experts sort this one out?

While funeral directors may be able to say they've seen it all...a comment from the coroner would be better. After all, during a trial...the funeral director doesn't take the stand.

It's really a shame that the majority of people have chosen to take a stance before all of the facts are presented. It is obvious that police did not just tell Zimmerman to go home. He is in handcuffs. He was interrogated. I believe they kept his clothing.

I'm not defending Zimmerman nor the actions of the police, but there are many cases where a subject is released so that the case can be built solid. Justice isn't an instant product. The Florida Stand Your Ground Statute puts a serious snag in this case.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

MSM is stirring the public into a frenzy....and everyone seems to be falling for it. Articles smear Trayvon and articles smear Zimmerman. Tell me...what does that accomplish? Does it bring Trayvon back? Does it convict Zimmerman?

so, cms5, as worded, that statute applies to the victim here as well. He is ALSO allowed to stand and fight if he feels threatened (a total stranger following him around should qualify as a threat, right?). His mistake was not carrying a gun so he could, in a better fashion, defend himself. It appears, in Florida at least, that if I feel threatened, have a gun, and the person threatening me has a gun, a shootout on the street is not only allowed but encouraged by this statute. An interesting argument could be made regarding Mr. Zimmerman. Since he now publicly has a reputation as someone more than willing to threaten, and possibly shoot, someone he does not KNOW to be doing anything illegal, ANYONE, ANYWHERE, could consider him a threat and... stand and fight.

As someone already noted. funeral directors ARE experts in terms of what bodies normally look like. And yes, funeral directors CAN testify in court, so it wouldn't surprise me to see this one up there.

For some reason, everyone seems to be fixated on his nose. As a long-time ED nurse, I'm more interested in the reported scalp laceration. Scalp injuries, even the smallest, tend to bleed copiously. It is highly unlikely that Mr. Zimmerman could have sustained any type of scalp injury without getting a significant amount of blood on his jacket. The officer on the scene said that the jacket was wet and had grass on it; he said nothing about blood.

Finally, Mr. Zimmerman's lawyer said that the blood on his jacket was not visible because the jacket was red; dried blood is not red - it's dark brown.

Differnet said:

Yeah, it is sad, because the police didn't do their job.

Ofc Timothy Smith was the first officer on the scene, here is his report submitted 2/27/2012 at 3:29:

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees lane I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.

I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shor t the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

Shortly after securing Zimmerman Ofcr Ricardo Ayala arrived on scene. I advised Ofcr Ayala that I had not made contact with the black male subject laying on the ground. I observed Ofcr Ayala make contact with the subject and attempt to get a response, but s met with negative results. Shortly after this other officers began to arrive on scene and along with SFD rescue 38 who began to give aid to the subject lying on the ground.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.

The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.

I would argue that the police DID indeed do their job.

Tony,

I totally agree. Trayvon had a right to be in that neighborhood and feeling threatened by Zimmerman following him could stand his ground.

There were 10 other gun deaths in the United States this past week involving Black Americans do you know who they are ?

There were 10 other gun deaths in the United States this past week involving Black Americans do you know who they are ?

Were the shooters arrested? Were they armed with iced tea and skittles?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't mostly white folks that complain about thugs bringing guns to fist fights? Why is it ok now to respond to fists with a firearm?

There were 10 other gun deaths in the United States this past week involving Black Americans do you know who they are ?

Were the killers let go without so much as a slap on the wrist or a proper investigation? Then they are not relevant. Quit bringing up every single murder case and trying to equivocate it with what happened here when you clearly don't understand why people are outraged.

Scars from such injuries as described on Mr. Zimmerman, would not heal in a month. Even healed, the traces of the injuries would still be visible. So, that is still in evidence.

As an interested observer, and in absence of primary-source evidence, I cannot yet lay 100% blame on either Zimmerman or Martin. But there are still glaring problems.

Why did Mr. Zimmerman stalk Martin, Zimmerman being armed with a loaded handgun? And how could an average build 17-year old inflict such a beating on a full-grown, physically strong, grown man?

Put simply, this should not have happened. And it is clear that Zimmerman was the catalyst.

Manslaughter by most States' laws.

If the body was between two homes, how did the kid supposedly confront Zimmerman at his vehicle then start the altercation? If there was a struggle as Zimmerman claimed at his vehicle, then the body would be at the curb, not up in the yard between the two houses.

We have something in this country called "due process" for all of you Monday morning jurors and CSI "experts". I find it truly disgusting that ANYONE calls Zimmerman a "child murderer" without knowing ANYTHING about the facts in this case. It is sad that a preventable death occurred, but until there is a trial, ANYONE without intimate knowledge of the facts in this case ie: POLICE DETECTIVES, should refrain from calling Zimmerman a murderer. There is a legal term for that action. It's called "slander"

Hmmm. Evidence seems to point to charges and let the Jury make the call.

"subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821Retreat View Cir"

The report that Zimmerman made was he was "at his vehicle" in the street when Trayvon hit him from behind and pounded his head into the cement?

How was he lying on the ground in the grass between two residences?

Why was he face down? Seems to me if he (Martin) was on top of Zimmerman beating him between two buildings (on the grass now...? and nowhere near the vehicle stated)) and Zimmerman shot him he would be face up? Also the two women that witnessnessed Zimmerman on top of Trayvon with his hands pushing his back (meaning: pushing his face or body into the grass/dirt) after he was shot seems accurate? Why would he do that? Why would anyone do that? Was he afraid he was going to get up with the hole in his chest and larger one coming out his back and kick his ass somemore? Was he trying to stop the bleeding?

I seen the video and it was very clear and clear enough to see he had no cuts, gashes or scrapes of any kind, you can clean up the nose so there is no blood, but on that bald head and face, there were no abrasions, cut or gashes, bandages of any kind and his nose didn't have a cut from the break.

Remember Zimmerman said he hit him in the nose with the first punch which supposidly dropped him (220 pd man hit by a 140-160 pound boy) and then Martin supposidly proceeded to pound his face into the "cement" several times? If you watch the video even without enhancement all the way through, you see no blood on the clothes or jacket and every inch of Zimmermans face, top, sides and back of head are clearly visible with no damage of any kind.

Do not tell me I can not see and the video is to grainy. I/we can see and so can the whole world. Again, something stinks.

Why wasn't he "toxed" and why was the word of a man with a record of assaulting an officer taken as gold. I am "white", my son went to jail for 71 days for pushing his girlfriend (in a state with the same law: Idaho) with no witnesses and his bail was set @ $100,000, he ended up with 6 more months in prison for pushing his girlfriend becuase the state said she could not drop her claim or she would be prosecuted for lying and she found out she was then pregnant after that and 17; so she was scared. It was a he said she said thing. I guess because noone died or got injured he needed this punishment. My son is a felon (and did six months in "prison" ) for pushing a girl up against the wall and causing no injury whatsoever (he also had no priors and was also 17) and people here are defending a guy that took a life and clearly lied! Also this shows the police are clearly lying as well. God bless America for beating up the dead child and backing a killer.

Daniel, you say you are more intelligent then most of the posters and you have had more experiencewith dead people??? is that from your job working with the census ? you are an idiot if you think working with the census makes you qualified to make the ignorant statements you have been spouting. why don't we find out all the facts before you execute this guy !!! yelling racism when you don't know this guy or the victim .,size doesn't matter in a fight it sound like lots of poor judgement on all parties involved, this kid is dead and will stay that way nothing can change that . it is a shame it happened ..lets get the facts before we all jump to conclusions.Daniel you are one stupid SOB, I feel sorry for you and (god forbid you have reproduced)your family ,if this is the best you can do

Allow me to enlighten all of you with some knowledge before you keep on acting, writing and behaving like Buffoons!

The 2011 Florida Statutes

Title
XLVI
CRIMES


Chapter
776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE


View
Entire Chapter

776.013 Home protection;
use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily
harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have
held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to
himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or
likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the
defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully
entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or
occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove
another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied
vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive
force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or
unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2) The presumption set forth in
subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the
defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the
dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and
there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written
pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

(b) The person or persons sought to
be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or
under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is
used; or

(c) The person who uses defensive
force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or
occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d) The person against whom the
defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14),
who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the
performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or
herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or
reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was
a law enforcement officer.

(3) A person who is not engaged in
an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has
a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her
ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably
believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to
himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible
felony.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by
force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied
vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act
involving force or violence.

(5) As used in this section, the
term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or
conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or
conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over
it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein
at night.

(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in
which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an
invited guest.

(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of
any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or
property.

History.—s. 1, ch.
2005-27.

Copyright © 1995-2012 The Florida Legislature • Privacy
Statement • Contact
Us

This is one of those rare and extrange cases where the Police actually did nothing wrong.

Aliveinsd, your quote "And how could an average build 17-year old inflict such a beating on a full-grown, physically strong, grown man?"

The same reason I could punch out a Zimmerman type when I was 17. Zimmerman is 5"9", 175 lbs, hardly a "big physically strong man". I am 6'3" 200lbs, now, at 17 I was 6'3" 170, just like Trayvon was and I could kick most peoples butt in a matter of seconds. Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman breaking his nose. Didn't you read the police report? And that video was shot 4 hours after the incident by the way, he had already been tended to by EMT's. MSNBC should be ashamed on their biased reporting.

It appears the review of the investigation of this case is 10 times more than most murder cases. As of now I have heard no criticism of the police handling the case by the FBI investigators or by any person or agency in a position to know. The only people that seem to have all the answers are we geniuses that post comments stoking the media fire and the famous, bcs they are better than us. Waiting for facts is so inconvenient that it is understandable to convict a man without facts before a trial. Surprised by on line medical examinations by the unskilled masses? Not to worry... I'm pretty sure 4 out of 5 doctors prefer using surveillance video to in person exams.

Trayvon sucker punched Zimmerman breaking his nose. Didn't you read the police report? And that video was shot 4 hours after the incident by the way, he had already been tended to by EMT's. MSNBC should be ashamed on their biased reporting.

So how come we don't see blood down the front of Zimmerman's shirt? Any blood at all? No matter how much you "clean someone up" blood just doesn't come out of clothing that easily.

JCB your a moron. 170lbs you couldn't do anything with that weight, please

By the way the if you don't like our laws please by all means don't come here! If you do decide to come to our State get to know the law of the land; or just try to use your common sense and do as your Grand mother probably use to tell you, respect other people's property, do not disrespect your elders, always put clean underwear before you go out and, DRESS PROPERLY!!!! Yes you like it or not sometimes the cloth do make the man!!!

You guys see the screen name that I've chosen? I'm anti GOP but this law is just, and, effective. do not try to change our law, behave your self, act properly and you will not have any problems.

By the way the if you don't like our laws please by all means don't come here! If you do decie to come to our State get to know the law of the land; or just try to use your common sense and do as your Grand mother probably use to tell you, respect other people's property, do not disrespect your elders, always put clean underware before you go out and, DRESS PROPERLY!!!! Yes you like it or not sometimes the cloth do make the man!!!

Dress "properly"? I didn't realize we were living in 1920. Since I can't control anyone's reactions to however I might dress, I say screw "dressing properly", I'll wear what I want.

I only have 2 questions about the statement by Zimmerman's attorney that he has a broken nose.

1) where is the blood that should be all over the front of his clothing

2) where are his two black eyes that are the side effect of a broken nose

Yes I agree with you Devin.. Also hear-say is not considered evidence and certainly not in a case involving death.. All this insanity will only hurt any chance of impartial Jury trial and even has repercussions for a Grand Jury.. Our legal system is there so mob and vigilante justice is not the law of the land.. This claim that if you are followed and confronted you can enact rights under the stand your ground law is a false assumption.. Clearly in the law it states use of deadly force only after you have received physical life threatening attack.. Following someone and or profanity or even grabbing someone seem to not be in the description so even if the young man felt threatened it does not justify violence on his part.. I just hope that the mouthpieces, Sharpton and Jackson and Spike stop there BS before dozens of people end up hurt or dead.. Inciting a mob or violence is a crime and the FBI needs to charge them with it..

Jim, please provide those facts in a court of law for him to be tried and convicted...oh, wait, that's right, you're an armchair CSI-lawyer wanna-be whose only claim to fame is to be psychically posting 'facts' online.

The truth will come out and it will be the actual facts - I have no idea how you 'know' what happened that night. Were you there? Didnt think so.

@Shel: I sure as hell hope you don't advise your children to be polite and talk to large strangers that have been following them around on a rainy night. How nice do you tell your children to be in these situations? Parent of the year you are not.

Shel, you've been posting on enough on these stories to know darn well that Zimmerman was NOT doing any kind of job, volunteer or otherwise, he had no affiliation with the non-existent Neighborhood Watch in his community. He was only a nutcase with a gun playing cop, out spying on and stalking people and apparently delusional enough to think he had some authority to "hold" someone at gunpoint 'till his backup arrived

Doing his job, are you joking, so he killed a kid because of his stupidity was that his job, I sure thought it was to observe and report not confront and kill.

I would like for evidence of recent burglaries in the gated community to be made public. How recent, how many, was anyone arrested.... I've listened to the 911 tapes, 8 of them, it's upsetting to hear the screams for help in the background on a few of them, to know that the life of that screaming person ended just moments later. I just really wish the media would dig up the alleged recent burglaries in the neighborhood. I'm surprised more people have not been shot by Zimmerman, who was constantly calling 911 (almost to the point of harassment) and why he didn't act like this in the past since he's the neighborhood watch. Maybe he couldn't get a clear shot on any of the previous "would be" perps. What a stain on society.

Wow, shel, made up a whole fictitious conversation in your head where the kid was mouthing off to the nice, sweet gun nut, huh?

How did the conversatgion with your own kids go - the stranger danger conversation? Kids, if some stranger starts following you or talking to you, be nice to him. We must respect our elders AND murderers.

you zimmerman supporters the 911 PERSON person told him to leave the kid alone! end of story his guilty period!!!

RU just another right wing nutjob who thinks this is all Obama's fault? Of course you are... it's as plain as day and we wouldn't expect you to do anything less than defend the indefensible. Keep on spewing your ilk... but how does it feel to be a MINORITY now?

I also thought, If he would have spoken to Zimmerman...then I remembered that Trayvon reported to his girlfriend that someone was following him. He was already uptight. Zimmerman wasn't wearing a uniform...didn't have Neighborhood Watch on his personal vehicle.

Did Zimmerman continue to follow at a distance? If so...Trayvon could have gone 'home'. Once Zimmerman saw him enter a home through the front door, he would have realized that he did have a right to be there.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. As they say...hindsight is 20/20.

You arm chair experts are a hoot! Yup, you know it all and that Zimmerman guy is just plain guilty!! No need for law enforcement to do anything, you clowns have it all figured out!!! LOL LOL LOL

usa1967 people that lol their own posts lolA!!!!!!!!

Not only did law enforcement fail miserably in their duties, the lies of the shooter and his attorney are proven to be an outright lie by the police video shown in the above clip. If ever there was a case so chock full of malfeasance that it would choke a mule, this is that case. Outside of the issue of the race of Zimmerman and/or Trayvon Martin, is the issue of Zimmerman's actions of that fateful day he decided it his right and personal duty to stalk and, ultimately, kill Trayvon Martin, the issue of the complete failure of law enforcement to do its job properly as it relates to launching a full investigation into Trayvon Martin's death by shooting, their attempts to alter and/or skew the facts of their reports to protect Zimmerman, and the subsequent proliferation of outright lies including claims that Zimmerman was punched and beaten by Trayvon Martin thereby shifting this from a homocide investigation to a false claim of self-defense.

People on here that believe Zimmerman had a right to pursue and kill Trayvon Martin based entirely on his attire, a hoodie, have serious issues and, I pray, they don't own a firearm(s). As to Florida's Stand Your Ground Law, it either needs to be scrapped altogether or it needs an overhaul that, when complete, would render it unrecognizable as to its first installment. It is my hope that this idiotic law that gives Floridians the right to basically justify killing anyone they deem to be a threat like wearing a hoodie, for instance, and not even have to consider retreating from said threat before pulling out a gun and shooting to kill anyone they deem to be a threat like someone wearing a hoodie, for example, be tossed out like all laws that aren't good for We The People should be.

Shel Rama

Yo Jim, cool down man. We don't even know what happened yet.

Yes, and the police and the attorney general are trying like hell to keep it that way. I think it's called "obstruction of justice".

After a full month and no arrest? Will Smith made a great comparison: Kim Kardashian was flour bombed, and the woman who did it was immediately arrested. Yet Trayvon's killer is still free. Where is the justice in that? A black child has a chunk of lead thrust through his chest, ending his life; but a white woman gets coated with flour and someone goes to jail for it.

We don't even know what happened yet? The most obvious and troubling part about this is the number of people who are absolutely blind, deaf and dumb to the facts here.

Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial, but he must be arrested NOW. That's how the justice system in our country is supposed to work.

USA1967 : You hit the nail on the head. These posters are all sexual intellectuals AKA Fooking know it alls.

Shel Lana,

First you said we dont even know what happened yet and in the same sentence condemn Trayvon as having a chip on his shoulder. I assume you were there or that you at least know Trayvon because how else would you know he was not being nice and had a chip on his shoulder? Aside from the end result and no one but Trayvon and Zimmerman knowing what exactly happened, we know that Zimmerman IS NOT A COP! He was not doing his job. If he had called the cops and left it at that, he would have been doing his job. He admitted to following Trayvon at which point he crossed the line. Those are at least the facts. Don't condemn Trayvon because he is not here to defend himself.

There is one problem with your comment PBgeorgia99. According to witnesses the screaming for help you hear in those tapes was coming from Zimmerman. Even a 13 year old has stated that.

One thing you can be sure of, you will not get to sit on the jury if there is a trial.

Well, cms, if Martin had gone "home", we don't know that Z wouldn't have followed him and assumed he was breaking in and shot him then. If I were being followed by a man I wouldn't lead them to my house and my family if there were any other option. I don't get why anyone thinks martin had some obligation to turn and talk sweetly to some strange guy following him. I'm not judging what happened because I don't know the details, but neither do those of you saying if Martin had run or gone home or whatever this wouldn't have happened.

Neither of these people were perfect and that is normal for any human situation. I could go on and on about who should have done what, and I will admit I don't see how from the limited evidence that has been made public that Zimmerman really went right back to the car and got jumped by the "thug" that some are painting Martin to be, but I don't have all the facts and I'm not investigating the case, so I'm not going to make up events that I didn't witness or hear on tape to support what I personally think happened. I mean really, who knows what was said between them and what assumptions were made on either side. Zimmerman seems to have thought Martin was some robber or something, and Martin seems to have thought Zimmerman was some stranger following him for unknown reasons and was scared/uncomfortable with it.

So that right there is a recipe for trouble, and it doesn't matter what we think happened. The case will be decided and some will be unhappy no matter what happens. If Z really said that nasty comment it does affect the perception of his motives, but who knows? I'm just having my opinion and letting the investigators see the whole picture that none of us have. It won't matter if I agree with their conclusions in the end, either.

Why do many of you insist on calling Martin a "child" - he was a 6'3", nearly 200lb, gold teeth wearing, tattooed MAN (not the 140lbs he was when the published photos were taken). Not to mention 17 year olds are not "children" in South Florida. Funny how MSNBC is not carrying this story: Shawn Tyson is a 17 year old black male (or as many posters would say "an innocent little child"). Two British tourists got lost and accidentally wandered into the housing project where Tyson lived. Witnesses testified that Tyson told them he saw two "crackers" -- a derogatory term for white people -- walking through the neighborhood and that he intended to rob them. The tourists said they didn't have any money and begged Tyson to let them go home. The men also told Tyson they were lost. "Since you ain't got no money, then I have something for your ass," Tyson recounted to a witness, then added that he shot the men several times.

Or how about the "innocent children" from North Miami High School who staged an en mass walk out of class in "support" of Trayvon Martin ... then promptly staged an en mass wild and savage looting of the Walgreens across the street. More than 100 students who were shouting for "justice for Trayvon" gang rushed the Walgreens and looted the daylights out of it.

Oh, but that's ok - they are just children...

So, hey everyone, if you see someone following you in a vehicle that is not security or police, no problem, don't worry. When that person gets out of the vehicle, doesn't have a uniform on, and follows you on foot, why don't you just go over to that person and politely ask if you can help him.

The thing about the video that struck me the most was Zimmerman's pale gray teeshirt. There were several clear pictures of it. No sign of blood on it! Not from a broken nose. Not from Trayvon who, according to the reports, was on top of him when Zimmerman shot him. Would there be splatter from the gunshot? Trayvon would have collapsed and been on top of him?

Really? Gold teeth wearing tatooed man huh. Clearly you didn't bother to read the article either. Do you enjoy looking like a fool? LOL Looted the daylights out of it huh? Did your mothers friends sisters hairdresser tell you that? There was 150.00 in broken items. The story is out there for all to read. But you can't be bothered with facts now can you? Run along and get back under the bed. There are scary black people outside your house!

shellie , if you had seen the current photo of martin you probably would retract most of your last thread what gives these protesters the right to run into the Walgreen's and break anything?watch the video at the store it is pretty scary

All of the people described above are young black thugs. Read some of the posts above. My cousin was killed in New Orleans for $22.00 only it took him 10 years to die. Two black thugs caved in the right side of his head and paralyzed his left side for the rest of his life for $22.00. He was a Merchant Marine who came ashore to have a beer and was robbed by some of these fine young black men of New Orleans. That is why I have a concealed carry permit for two states because it is no longer safe on the streets of any major city in the country. I carry two pistols. Bring it on. I am not afraid of anything or anybody. The Utah permit is now valid in 22 states.

Are you new here? The local police and AG did nothing. That's why this is in the news.

perhaps, Shel, if the "leftist media"--which took two weeks to even notice the story--had just kept sleeping, Zimmerman would "have his life back". Unlike Trayvon Martin, who will never get his life back. It was taken by this Z-hole. If we'd just listen to the countless "rightist" media, we'd be hailing the Z-hole as a hero, right?

Shel,

The media (not leftist) are reporting the facts to the public. Without the media people would only see the version those in power want us to see which is a very dangerous thing. Sorry if the facts aren't stacking up to support your "right wing" agenda so far but if Zimmerman has actual facts or proof to support his side I'm sure the media will show those too.

If it wasnt for the "leftist " media as you and the right wing nuts call them, he would most likely be on a vacation in the Bahamas, telling his hero story at the bar.

blaise: have you listened to the call? The dispatcher did not tell Zimmerman not to follow. He said "you don't need to do that." There is a big difference between being told you don't need to do something and being told NOT to do something.

Shel....if you don't like what the left wing media is saying, you can go to Fox, I'm sure they are peddling exactly what you want to hear. This is about justice. This is about a possible cold blooded murder of a 17 year old American citizen who was minding his own business until Zimmerman started stalking him.

Jeff H, the "big difference" is ARROGANCE from an apparent wanna-be who didn't respect the voice of the actual police department.

What if he'd gotten his wish and become a "real" cop? Imagine the body count if this guy, a paranoid yahoo looking for trouble, had a badge to go with that gun.

He said "you don't need to do that." There is a big difference between being told you don't need to do something and being told NOT to do something.

I think about this like a severe tire damage sign. I can see the sign and see the spikes. If ignore the advise of sign and back my car over the spikes I can't expect the property owner to cover the cost of new tires because I'm an idiot. Zimmerman was given notice that his actions weren't smart or necessary. He made the decision to ignore that notice and is responsible for the events that transpired as a result of that decision. Unless you don't believe in personal responsibility the same way I do.

Wow--Shel: You have some idea of butt out. You claim that the Trayvon supporters must 'butt out' yet it is completely OK for you and the Zimmerman supporters to throw out story after story(there has been 3 scenarios out there, all claiming the tale came from Zimmerman), yet yor and your "supporters" tales of "Trayvon was the aggressor" are to be construed as fact. Wow--just plain WOW!

I believe that a Mellissa Harris-Perry said last night

"George Zimmerman deserves his story to be heard by a court of law, George Zimmerman deserves to be defended to the fullest extent of the law, George Zimmerman deserves justice as does Trayvon Martin---however, for any or all of that to happen--George Zimmerman needs to be arrested!!!!!

Bethany

It would be ridiculous and an injustice to arrest a person for trying to defend himself.They say Treyvon was wearing the hoodie because it was raining, why then was he wearing sun shades on a cloudy day as congressman Rush suggests by his crude display?

When will Obama stop provoking racism and stop trying to police the world? Maybe he should be arrested for almost inciting a riot with the blacks in this case.

Butt out Obama and do the job you were hired to do and have proven that you are NOT qualified to do?

It would be ridiculous and an injustice to arrest a person for trying to defend himself.

I agree. But Zimmerman clearly provoked a conflict by chasing the kid. We know this from the 911 tapes and his own account of events. He wasn't defending himself, he was looking for trouble. The law isn't there to protect you from your own stupidity. Neighborhood watch is supposed to observe and report. You see a shady kid. You call the cops. Zimmerman made a choice to pursue and confront. He is responsible for his actions and for that choice, don't you think?

They say Treyvon was wearing the hoodie because it was raining, why then was he wearing sun shades on a cloudy day as congressman Rush suggests by his crude display?

It doesn't matter. Even if he wore a shirt that said "F@&! YOU GEORGE ZIMMERMAN" it doesn't matter. People can wear what they want when they want.

The events of the evening are against Zimmerman and his story. First, Zimmerman was told by a dispatcher that he did not need to follow Martin after Zimmerman reported the boy was running away from him. The fact that there was an altercation shorty after that conversation indicates that Zimmerman did not heed the dispatcher's advice and continued to follow Martin. Furthermore, a girl to whom Martin was speaking on his cell phone as this was happening said Martin told her he was being followed by a strange man who accosted him on the street. When Martin asked the man why he was following him, Zimmerman did not identify himself except to demand that Martin explain what he was doing there. The girl reported the sound of pushing and shoving before the phone went dead.

So Zimmerman caught up to the boy against the advice of the police dispatcher, he did not identify himself as a neighborhood watch citizen, and he got into a pushing match with a frightened boy whom he wound up shooting to death. Never mind the racist remarks made by Zimmerman or the unfounded speculation that the boy was on drugs as he was walking home with a pocketful of skittles. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy without clear justification.

As far as the prosecution of this case is concerned, the Stand Your Ground statute of Florida does not apply in this case because Zimmerman opted to follow Martin, thus changing the nature of Zimmerman's defense. In fact, because it was Martin who was confronted by Zimmerman, many legal experts believe it would have been Travon who would be covered by the Stand Your Ground law, thereby taking away Zimmerman's immunity in a self-defense case.

Zimmerman will be facing serious charges soon, and it is well he should.

Rick said:

Are you new here? The local police and AG did nothing. That's why this is in the news.

Actually, they did what they they were supposed to, in my opinion. Here's the report filed by Officer Timothy Smith, who was the first one on the scene:

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees lane I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.

I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shor t the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

Shortly after securing Zimmerman Ofcr Ricardo Ayala arrived on scene. I advised Ofcr Ayala that I had not made contact with the black male subject laying on the ground. I observed Ofcr Ayala make contact with the subject and attempt to get a response, but was met with negative results. Shortly after this other officers began to arrive on scene and along with SFD rescue 38 who began to give aid to the subject lying on the ground.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me." At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.

The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.

And, rather more telling, the 'offense' listed on the police reports list the entire incident as:

'HOMICIDE-NEGLIGENT MANSLAUGHTER-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT.' per FL statute782.11

Here's the applicable statute:

Homicide- negligent manslaughter-Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act FL statute 782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree.

And even with the police saying this was what they determined, the prosecutors declined to prosecute.

If the adolescent would have been in school like a well behave home trianed kid he would not be the topic of todays news. As far as Zimmerman if he is guilty he will get what is coing to him If not society OWES HIM RESTITUSION.

I know I'm wasting words on this one, but:

Rangewolf - half of what you said is wrong and the other half doesn't make any sense. It's not "ridiculous and wrong" to arrest someone who claims self defense. An arrest isn't a conviction.

And please explain why Obama should "stop provoking racism?" I'm not sure what that weird collection of words even means, but the President has made one statement on this matter, and that was in response to a question. Do you honestly think that Obama has anything whatsoever to do with this situation? Like, maybe if our President was white this wouldn't have happened?

The police report said Zimmerman had been injured, I think that tells more than a grainy video after on scene treatment by the SFD can show. However, the media-driven lynch mob has shown its ugly face and want blood on their hands.

Besides, what do you think he did? Beat himself up?

FT WADE- It was 7pm when it happened. Suspended or not, he wouldn't have been at school at that time anyways.

I'm sorry, I can't see how Obama, (or anyone else,) is responsible for Zimmerman's actions. And I'm nearly sick to death of the political spew that some insist on throwing into every discussion.

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't recall any mention of Trayvon wearing sunglasses. My guess is, the congressman wore sunglasses with his hoodie because that is the stereotypical way black males are viewed by some--'shady' and suspiciously up to no good. I think it was to show everyone how easily ANY black male dressed that way can fit the stereotype and incite fear.

@Rangewolf said: "It would be ridiculous and an injustice to arrest a person for trying to defend himself.They say Treyvon was wearing the hoodie because it was raining, why then was he wearing sun shades on a cloudy day as congressman Rush suggests by his crude display?

When will Obama stop provoking racism and stop trying to police the world? Maybe he should be arrested for almost inciting a riot with the blacks in this case.

Butt out Obama and do the job you were hired to do and have proven that you are NOT qualified to do?"

It is truly absolute fools like this , who have brought America to its knees. He doesn't know the difference between Murder and defending oneself from being murdered. He is so blindly racist that he can't see that the victim in this heinous crime was the 17 year old kid. He lies and makes up his own facts to support his paranoid racist views and opinions about right and wrong. Example; sunshades above. Were you there moron? Did you witness the act? Sheer ignorance at work here. This is the kind of racist paranoia that bred Mass Paranoia in post WW2 Germany. And if idiots like this keep spreading throughout the system, it will eventually spell the doom of America too.

Last time to engage what's left of your weak brain, idiot. The guy who was defending himself from a murdurous, vigilante, predatory stalker was the 17 year old kid, Trevon Martin! ANd it looks like the local authorities (police and DA) became part of the Vigilante posse! That scene is all too familiar in Non-White communities throughout historical America. It's one of the reasons the country deemed it necessary to write laws protecting minority rights you dope. And what is it with your hatred of Obama anyway? He is the President you know. He can speak about anything he wants too. Obviously he makes you somehow feel like less than a real man. And based on your pov on this case I see why. Comparing the President's intelligence to yours is like comparing a real man (President Obama) to an ant (you).

Uh, NIGHT SCHOOL?!!

It should be noted that a witness inteviewed in the meantime had colaborated why there was a cut on Zimmermans head, and that he was the one screaming help me.

We don't know who threw the first punch or even what lead to the first punch other than Zimmerman was asked to not follow the suspect. We don't know if he complied - only the people investigating may be able to figure that out. Being the complete story has not been determined we are left to wait for the authorities to asertain what happened.

I'm not sure I buy the alleged line that Martin said he was going to kill him especially since later Zimmerman said that martin spied the gun and went for it.

In the 911 call, Zimmerman expressed concerned that Martin had a weapon - it makes no sense that Zimmerman would have attacked him, but then, people do stupid things.

The things we should be taking away from this aren't being learned are

1) never follow anyone. You don't know what they might do WHEN they notice your presence.

2) never get involved in a physical altercation, you never know when someone has a weapon, whether legal or illegal.

Rangewolf,

Because, Rangewolf, the police did not adequately perform their duties. There are a lot of things that should have taken place in the event of a shooting death. There should have been drug and alcohol testing, not just on the deceased, but on the shooter as well to determine state of mind. They should have take his weapon, which they did not according to the records. They took it away during the arrest, but he got it back. They should have photographed the cuts and bruises, which there doesn't appear to be any - you'd think that they would have released those to bolster Zimmerman's account. No medical reports. No bandages or gauze or blackened or bruised eyes for someone that claims to have a broken nose. The casual and relaxed working relationship between Zimmerman and the police. The fact that he appears to be too coherent and spy for someone that claims to have been almost beaten to death. The fact that they did not identify Martin's body other than as John Doe even when they had his identity and phone. The fact that there are opposing eye witness accounts and one phone witness.

All those reasons are why the media and politicians are weighing in. If you don't like Obama chiming in, then tell your republican presidential candidates to shut up as well because they commented on this matter too.

You do know Congressman Rush wears tinted eyeglasses right? The hoodie is all that is listed in the police report. Go read it. It is posted all over the place. Then come back.

Amanda, this account is disconcerting and very alarming. The victim Mr. Martin per this report was not attended to despite being on the ground and unresponsive. Why? The officer in his own words never made any attempt to check on Trayvon Martin. The officer not only waited to call for paramedics he delayed that call by his own accounting. His contact was primarily with Mr. Zimmerman based on his report. The police 911 dispatcher recording clearly indicates that the young man per Zimmerman was just walking doing nothing by himself. Zimmerman refers to the boy (Trayvon Martin) as having something wrong with him based on his personal observation. He specifically says on the 911 dispatch recording that they always get away. Zimmerman never identifies to Trayvon Martin at any point during this recording that he is the Neighborhood Watch person. The police dispatcher says clearly "we don't need you to do that," referencing Zimmerman following him. Why did Zimmerman follow the teenager when he was told not to? He is not an officer of the law nor was he empowered unless at that very moment he was in harms way. Why in this police officers accounting was there no attempt made to check on Martin to see if he was even alive. The officer ASSUMED the accounting of Mr. Zimmerman's as accurate. No forensic's, no criminal investigators report, no obvious blatant injuries as Mr. Zimmerman contends given the initial police station video. Protocol is that if Mr. Zimmerman needed medical attention there should be a paper trail and account of his specific injuries and pictures. Thus where is the forensics in this case supporting self-defense? Nothing exists to support that this young boy was intent on doing harm or no good. Obvious is a failure by key individuals in the police department and the state attorney who advised to let the man go basically being judge and jury when someone was killed. There is good reason for out cry that Mr. Zimmerman be placed in jail and an independent out of state investigation be made of the shooting. Consider if someone you loved or cared for were in a morgue for three days after you had filed a missing persons report and they had their working cell phone on them. Consider if your loved one was your son, daughter or sibling who had been talking on the phone with their friend at the time they were shot. If the police had done there job as they should then they would have found that cell phone and located the young man's family instead of them waiting for three days to learn of what had happened. Again, this officers report and the entire accoutning clearly show multiple failures and questionable actions and assumptions that were clearly wrong.

Jeff, not exactly. Here's a transcript of the 911 call:

911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26] (Which amounts to telling Z not to follow)

Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]

LMAO. I can not believe the lengths some people will go to inject their right wing idiocy into everything. Blaming Obama...WOW!

OK that said pay attention, because some obviously have not.

1.) Zimmerman FOLLOWED Martin, that is NOT self defense.

2.) If some guy followed me, with or without a gun, and got close enough for me to put my hands on him, he would definitely be bloody and no cleaning up wounds would hide it. Of course he got his ass kicked, Martin was fighting for his life against an armed aggressor.

3.) you can tell from the video that Zimmerman did have a wound on the back of his head, just watch the cop walk behind him and stare at it, however, how bad could it be? You can't see it and the quality is not that bad.

4.) Zimmerman was wrong from the start. He was armed, neighborhood watch is not supposed to be armed by their own bylaws. He followed the KID off his property. He got out of his truck after following him against all advice.

5.) Zimmerman is a racist. period. He called the kid a coon. not just a coon but a f*%^ing coon.

6.) You can not invoke stand your ground, when all you have is a perception that someone may do something. The kid was merely walking, that is not a crime. Talking to yourself or on a cell phone is not a crime nor any indication you may do something illegal.

These are facts, not conjecture. I do not care what the police, the President, or other politicians say. These facts are indisputable. Zimmerman needs to be charged with first degree, premeditated murder, and punished accordingly. Anyone who says otherwise is either very uneducated, or a racist themselves.