...unless you are genuinely seeking the truth.

I made up my mind last week that Zimmerman was innocent until I seen the tape and no facial injuries. Learning that his father was a retired judge and no arrests were made that night made me think the reason he wasn't arrested was because the story of the broken nose and head lacerations from getting slammed into the pavement would not have matched up with the mug shot Sanford PD would had to have taken.

I've broken a couple noses in my time, mine as well as others, (boxing) and the swelling lasts several days to a week with puffiness underneath the eyes. The video where George is walking into the booking station shows his nose straight as an arrow with no swelling whatsoever. In the garage, the back of his head shows no lacerations or swelling anywhere. If he was in fear of his life because he was being pummled, the wounds or lack of, doesn't support his story.

I was convinced that Trayvon suckerpunched him...now, I'm not convinced. Maybe the 60second gap in the 911 tape will reveal Trayvon's voice screaming: "I'm going to kill you or words to that effect!"

Until then...keeping an open mind.

It is true, people will hear what they want. Can't argue with that. There is one fact though that doesn't bode well for Zimmerman. If you are part of an official organized community watch, your job is to observe and report ONLY. You NEVER exit your vehicle to investigate. Let the chips fall where they may. Sit back and enjoy the show.

Jurors will "hear what they want" Too. Zimmerman and possible the police force are toast.

DonKeeHawTee said:

I made up my mind last week that Zimmerman was innocent until I seen the tape and no facial injuries. Learning that his father was a retired judge and no arrests were made that night made me think the reason he wasn't arrested was because the story of the broken nose and head lacerations from getting slammed into the pavement would not have matched up with the mug shot Sanford PD would had to have taken.

The police wanted to arrest him.

On the report filed after the investigation, which includes two narratives written by the first officers on the scene, the entire incident is written as 'Homicide-Negligent manslaughter-Unecessary killing to prevent unlawful act' per FL statute 782.11. So I went and looked up the statute:

782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree.

For whatever reason the prosecutors declined to prosecute.

DonKeeHawTee said:

The video where George is walking into the booking station shows his nose straight as an arrow with no swelling whatsoever. In the garage, the back of his head shows no lacerations or swelling anywhere. If he was in fear of his life because he was being pummled, the wounds or lack of, doesn't support his story.

Even before I saw the video things weren't adding up for me.

If, as Zimmerman said, he was returning to his vehicle when Martin attacked him from behind, punched him in the nose and smashed the back of his head several times into the sidewalk, then how did the actual crime scene where Martin was shot end up being in a wooded area some distance from the road (Zimmerman had to give the dispatchers directions to give to the officers on how to find himself and Martin as they were not along the roadway.)

The only explanation that reconciles Zimmerman's story to the police report is that after Martin incapacitated Zimmerman, he ran, and Zimmerman pursued, then at some point Trayvon turned to face his pursuer and was then shot. However, even this scenario has flaws since the police apparently did not notice any blood or other debris on the sidewalk, although they DO note that Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head. In fact, Zimmerman's vehicle is not mentioned on any of the partial reports filed by the officers, but his back was thoroughly 'covered in grass' as noted by the officer first on the scene. If he had told the officers at the time that his head had been bashed into the sidewalk the SFD would have taken him to a hospital for a possible concussion--that is standard operating procedure for paramedics, at least where I live--I told them I was fine after a biking accident but they refused to allow me to leave they HAD to take me to the hospital. No refusal was allowed.

The Skittles and iced tea were apparently found at the scene, as that has been the major consistent portion of all the stories currently circulating except Zimmerman's version and the witnesses who said they saw Martin attack Zimmerman. Wouldn't Trayvon have dropped those items in the process of running away from Zimmerman, then coming back, punching Zimmerman and bashing his head into the sidewalk?

Can you hold a beverage and candy with one hand while subduing and assaulting a person who isheavier than yourself? And after your head has impacted a sidewalk multiple times are you even still conscious enough to get up, run after Martin, shoot him, return your gun to its holster, then call 911 and give the dispatcher directions to give to the police who are looking for you?

And according to the police report and the timestamp on the 911 tapes, dispatch alerted officers about a suspicious person call at 1917 (7:17 PM, civilian time.) The paramedic who was first on the scene, a guy named Brady, declared Trayvon dead at 1930 (7:30 PM) after three officers and the paramedic himself had tried to revive Trayvon. That's 13 minutes between the time dispatch alerted officers and the time Paramedic Brady declared Trayvon dead.

Is 13 minutes, part of which is documented by the 911 tapes, and only part of which is unaccounted for, long enough for everything that Zimmerman said had happened to have happened?

Donkeehaawtee... Zimmerman was arrested. He would not be in the video in handcuffs if he wasn't. He wasn't charged, but he was arrested.

MVP24----Can't "let the jury decide" until there is an arrest, and charges filed. You may look at it as just another death. Most see it differently.

@Amanda,

Good recap,

but there aren't any witnesses to "Martin attacking Zimmerman" The witness, John, said he heard the scuffle, looked out saw Martin on top beating on Zimmerman, with Zimmerman calling for help, he then ran upstairs to call 911, heard a gun shot, looked out and Trayvon was face down, dead.

Three other witnesses say it was Trayvon calling for help, I am sure the tapes will be tested with voice recognition, and then we will know for sure, who was crying for help,

NO ONE witnessed anything more than a "fight" between the two, NOT how it started.

Zimmerman's story is full of holes. He lives in that neighborhood and is on the neighborhood watch but had to get out of the car to see the street sign b/c he didn't know where he was? In a development with only 3 streets?? And why would you have to get out of a car to see street signs? They ARE visible from car windows, you know. So that's suspicious statement #1. #2 is that he had walked back to the car when he was attacked from BEHIND by Trayvon, who punched him in the nose, knocking him to the ground. How does someone get attacked from BEHIND by a punch in the NOSE? #3 is the discrepancy between his statement that they were on the grass in a wooded area and the other statement that they were on the sidewalk near the car. He alternately claims he was knocked to the grass and knocked to the pavement. #4 is that he was having his head slammed repeatedly to the ground and had already had his nose broken, but there was no concussion and no swelling or bruising to his face, which should be very visible on that video. Most amazing of all, no blood - not his and not Trayvon's, despite his claim that Trayvon was on top of him slamming his head into the ground. How on earth isn't he spattered in blood? There isn't even ONE thing that Zimmerman said that adds up.

If George Zimmerman was treated, by EMS Paramedics and Police Officers, for a wound to the back of his head, there would have been a dressing or patch covering the wound site treated, which would have been applied to prevent a future civil suit against the Fire and Police Departments. If wounded, as Zimmerman claims, and then treated by EMS Personnel, and the wound site not covered with a patch dressing, Zimmerman could later claim that his treatment was improper and infection at the wound site could occur. If Zimmerman refused treatment at the scene, there would be an "Injury Release Form" on file with the Fire Department. If the Sanford Police did not take Zimmerman's clothing at the shooting scene, how is it that so many people know there was significant blood loss for Zimmerman? If the clothing Zimmerman was wearing in the Police Garage Video is the clothing Zimmerman was wearing at the shooting scene, where is all of the blood evidence from the beating he took? The Police Department may have botched this investigation from the beginning.

From the article above:

"Not everyone approves of Triplett's actions [releasing the 911 tapes]. Sanford City Commissioner Patty Mahany said she thought he meant well, but that he had drawn more attention to the case and the calls could influence jurors in any trial. 'I think it stirred up a lot of anger in very well-meaning people who still don't have the whole story,' Mahany said."

And this from a few weeks ago:

Sanford police Chief Bill Lee said, “The hysteria, the media circus, it's just crazy. It's the craziest damn thing I've ever seen, and it's sad. It's sad for the city of Sanford, the police department, because I know in my heart we did a good job."

These folks have their heads so far up their behinds it's not funny.

@Amanda-2017567, may I correct you on one fact? You keep referring to a 'wooded area' where Trayvon was found. It is not a 'wooded area', it is a backside walkway between townhomes. I have seen the crime scene, and you would have alot of luck finding shade from only one tree, if there is a tree. But I comply to the rest of your opinions.

It does matter. This is pure evidence. Not opinion.

Transparency is always the best policy, if your TRUE aim is to find the TRUTH.

HS321, the initial police report only mentions the Zimmy claimed a broken nose and "self-defense" and all that nonsense. The report also notes the Zimmy refused to go to the hospital. After all, he was lying and he knew there was nothing for the doctors to look into.

HAHAHA... Some of you guys called it! It is an election year!!

JoeB, FYI, the Department of Justice is not involved in the investigation. Only local and state officials are looking into the matter.

WHY wasn't the decision of whether to indict this man (or not) left up to a grand jury? If they had...there would be no protests.

Olias...None of us were at the scene. The police and medics were. IF this goes to trial, the jury will have to decide on a preponderance of the evidence.

"After all, he was lying...." Again, this is your and mine speculation. I "believe" he was lying too. But what we speculate or believe about facts, what Zimmerman said, is not indisputable evidence.

At this time, Trayvon is still 100% innocent of any wrongdoing.

That's it in a nutshell.

Adult male stranger follows your kid in a vehicle. Adult male gets out of vehicle and continues to follow your kid. What does your kid do? Run, hopefully. If he is outrun and can't get away, what THEN does he do? He fights back and hopefully wins. That's what I taught my kid. Even if Trayvon DID hit Zimmerman, and it doesn't look like he did, he would be JUSTIFIED - it's called ta da - STANDING YOUR GROUND. Ironically, stand your ground wouldn't apply for Zimmerman b/c HE was the pursuer. He admitted on that 911 tape that he WAS pursuing the kid. All the kid knew at that time was that a stranger - possibly a rapist or murderer - was stalking him through the neighborhood.

Blonde, in hindsight, I bet that's exactly what the DA is thinking right now. However, if the DA decides there is not enough evidence to clearly win a conviction, they will not bother taking it to the grand jury in the first place. There is nothing DA's want more than to get a conviction. The cases where they lied about cases, withheld evidence and other obstructions of justice to win cases abound. No way a DA would pass on a cut and dry case, especially if it was going to get them in them a lot of attention in the media.

Terry, you make some great points, all of which point to the fact that we don't know all the facts. Based on your fine assessment, we can come to only one conclusion, we don't have enough information to make an informed decision.

bonos_rama, awesome avatar. Gabriel rules!

bonus-rama..."Adult male stranger follows your kid..."

That is one valid interpretation of the evidence, but it is not the only valid INTERPRETATION of the evidence.

Anyone, including me, could spin this all day as a cut and dry case, but the fact is, it's not.

Theoretically, justice is blind, but clearly not so to many in this case.

This incident happened between 7 and 730 p.m. Personally I'd like to know when GZ got grass wet. Since the beginning he has told more than one rendition of what happened. First claiming he only got out of his vehicle to check the street signs...that he lost sight of Trayvon and did/didn't continue his pursuit. If GZ grabbed Trayvon and they went down on the sidewalk, rolled into the grass, GZ would get wet. Being 100 lbs heavier, I find it unlikely Trayvon could pin him. I believe Trayvon was yelling, he was close to his house and was crying out for help. More likely Trayvon tried to push GZ off of him--it's so sad he was only 70 feet away from safety. GZ said he was crying for hours...I don't see any signs of anguish in GZ in the police video. He seems very calm, cool and collected. The blood on his face as orginally stated could have been Trayvon's and most likely was--or GZ wiped it on his own face in the confusion. What I find callous is GZ has yet to apologize or show remorse for Trayvon's mother and father. His father being a judge can only answer why the Police Chief and Prosecutor showed up personally to review the incident that night. Great cover-up attempt. It's discusting.

HS, it's clear from the 911 tapes the Zimmy is fighting ghosts in his head and a child walking home after buying candy paid with his life because of it.

Like most Americans, I am not going to state my opinion until Nancy Grace tells me what it should be.

By the way, this is sarcasm. Bazinga!!!!

Do you know what's almost worse than the Zimmy killing Trayvon? It's the fact that the Zimmy wasn't home watching the Super Bowl. What's wrong with this guy?!

It was the NBA All Star game, to Superbowl!

Oops! I got the date wrong. Sorry. I'll exit stage left!

They compain if you play the 911 tape for the media...

They complain when don't play it...

They complain is the parents couldn't listen to it...

They complain because the parents were allowed to listen to it (which they will hear it in the court room anyway)...

Complain, complain, complain

They did not want to release the tape because it they knew it showed that the injuries claimed by Zimmerman were exaggerated, if they were true at all and that the police were complicit in the spreading of this disinformation about his injuries. The police acted completely inappropriately right from the start and they know it. Now that they have been caught they are trying to do everything they can to spin the story to justify their actions. Thank god at least one person in Sanford is not going along with this attempted cover-up and disinformation campaign. The only thing left to do at this point is to arrest and charge Zimmerman with second degree murder and bind him over for trial. Let the court system decide on his guilt or innocence, not a corrupt police department protecting the son of a former judge from the consequences of his actions. The police conduct in this case makes you wonder about the other charges against Zimmerman that were dropped, like the charges for assaulting a police officer. I wonder how much Zimmerman's ex-judge father and his buddies on the police force had to do with convincing the officer he assaulted and the DA not to press charges. With Zimmerman's history of violence, there is no way he should have ever been granted a concealed carry permit. I wonder if his ex-judge father had anything to do with that being issued as well. Zimmerman being out there still walking around with a concealed weapon is a serious threat to the people of Sanford and anyone else who happens to visit his neighborhood that he does not know. How many more innocent people will Zimmerman shoot in his quest to play police officer and be a hero before they lock his ass up. The real story behind this shooting is that there had been some burglaries in the neighborhood and Zimmerman was out playing vigilante trying to be the hero and catch the burglar. Instead he wound up shooting an innocent kid. This is why non-police officers who have not been properly trained should not be running around with guns playing at being police. As a member of the neighborhood watch he was not supposed to be armed and as not supposed the try and confront or detain anyone. He violated the most basic principles of the neighborhood watch program in his quest to be the hero. He needs to be locked up before he kills anyone else.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/Chapter776/All

Thanks Ron, you made my case for me.......

so zimmerman was chasing Trayvon with a loaded gun and never identified himself as a neighborhood watch, trayvon was using the "stand your ground law" and defending himself against a larger, armed attacker.

Play the tapes.................nothing to hide. Let them sort it out before you hang an innocent man. If he is proven to have been wrong, fine, hang him then.

the truth always matters,if it doesnt,why have any laws?

All of this speculation on the injuries is pointless. Zimmermans supporters said he went to the hospital. If he did then there are records. The police said he was injured. The EMT's would also have records. The police and all of the special investigators would have looked at those records. It would take one massive conspiracy from multiple parties and multiple disciplines to cover this up. Even if we could prove that Zimmerman threw the first punch it changes nothing. Whoever was getting beat was scared out of there mind. It's pretty clear on the 911 tape.

Does not matter if Zimmerman went to the hospital or not with the law being written the way it is Zimmerman will never go to jail.

WyomingLiberal, You are assuming a lot of information that you don't know. 1. Chasing has different implications then following. 2. We don't that Zimmerman didn't identify himself. 3.We don't know if he had the opportunity to identify himself. 4. Do we even know that a neighborhood watchman is required to identify themselves?

ron, you keep saying that, but the people that wrote the law and signed into law, say you are WRONG!

HaterShmuck321(hs321): the professional 911 employee told him NOT to follow the kid,volunteer zman didn't listen therefore it's 100% his fault

noah, the "witness" that was on phone with Trayvon when TRAYVON was attacked, says Zimmerman did NOT identify himself!

Jo-An, That may be... but it still is not proof that he did not. It's hearsay at best. I'm not saying it's worthless (if it's true) People seem to be making up their own facts in the case. It also doesn't invalidate my other points. Was Zimmerman given the opportunity? Was Zimmerman required to do so?

MPV24....OK, so you have not read anything about this case and you know nothing about it, yet you are compelled to post a comment. There is no jury to decide anything, and that is the entire point of the issue ! There should be a jury to make a decision, but there is not, because Zimmerman has not been charged with anything. Since you have missed the entire core of the controversy, please try to refrain from posting about things you are not willing to even read about. The outrage is over the fact that no charges have been filed and there will be no jury to decide anything. Get it ?

It's just a miracle the tapes were not "accidentally" erased!

noah-4078447....people are not asking for proof of guilt, they are asking that charges be filed so that a jury can decide if there is proof of guilt. The outrage is about the fact that no charges have been filed and no evidence will be put before a jury so that they can decide if there is proof.

Wow, this is great. Day after day, week after week, people who have no idea of the real facts stating their opinions as the truth and calling for justice. Since the matter has been investigated and no arrest, don't you think maybe justice has been served?

JS in SD said:

The police acted completely inappropriately right from the start and they know it.

Honestly, after reading the reports filed by the officer on the scene, I really don't see that they did anything inappropriate.

Ofc Timothy Smith was the first officer on the scene, here is his report submitted 2/27/2012 at 3:29:

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees lane I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.

I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shor t the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

Shortly after securing Zimmerman Ofcr Ricardo Ayala arrived on scene. I advised Ofcr Ayala that I had not made contact with the black male subject laying on the ground. I observed Ofcr Ayala make contact with the subject and attempt to get a response, but s met with negative results. Shortly after this other officers began to arrive on scene and along with SFD rescue 38 who began to give aid to the subject lying on the ground.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.

The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.

So what do you suggest MM? That the DA should bring murder charges against Zimmerman? Don't forget that the DA has all the information available and you do not. If they put Zimmerman on trial for a crime that they can't prove then he will got off due to double jeopardy. Sometimes these things take time.

Here's the report filed by Ofc Ricardo Ayala, second officer on the scene:

On 2/26 at approximately 1917 hours I was dispatch to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a complainant seeing suspicious person in the area. While en route dispatch stated that they were receiving calls in reference to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to.

Ofc. T. Smith stated via radio that he was arriving in the area. Ofc. T. Smith later states that there was only one subject shot and he had one at gunpoint.

Upon arrival Ofc. T. Smith had a white male later identified as George Zimmerman, in custody. Zimmerman was also the original caller in reference to the suspicious person.

I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans, and white/red sneakers laying face-down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body. I attempted to get a response from the black male but was met with negative results. At that time Sgt. Raimondo arrived and attempted to get a pulse on the black male but none as found. At that time Sgt. Raimondo and I turned the black male over and began CPR. Sgt. Raimondo did breaths and I did chest compressions.

Sgt. S McCoy arrived on scene and relieved me continuing compressions. Sanford Fire Rescue arrived on scene and attempted to revive the subject but could not. Paramedic Brady pronounced the subject deceased at 1930 hours.

The scene was then secured with crime scene tape by Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wagner. Ofc. Robertson began a crime scene contamination log.

Lt. Taylor arrived on scene and notified dispatch to have Major Crimes respond to the scene. Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wgner were able to make contact with neighbors in the area. They were able to obtain statements from all witnesses on scene.

The scene was turned over to SPD Major Crimes.

I would argue that based on those police reports, they didn't do anything illegal, nor do they appear to have tried to cover anything up. In fact, on this report the findings on the incident is labeled

Homicide- negligent manslaughter-Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act--Florida statute 782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree.

It would have been the prosecutors who apparently made the decision to release and not charge him, and I would be really interested in hearing their reasons for finding the conclusion in the police report wrong.

Why is it that no one even considers the fact that Trayvon would still be alive if he would have just kept on going instead of confronting Zimmerman? Trayvon was obviously in much better physical condition and could have easily gotten away. Trayvon made a bad decision and it cost him his life.

A very sad situation for all concerned.

I agree with you Amanda. In my state this case would have almost certainly be tried as negligent manslaughter. However, I am not familiar with the law in Florida. It seems to me that the stand your ground law would make convicting someone of this rather difficult.

What matters to me is the fact that the kid would still be alive if Zimmerman did not get out of his vehicle, the confrontation would have never taken place, that is the starting point of this whole thing, no matter how people try to spin it Zimmerman was the aggressor, the kid was on a public sidewalk walking home and he had called the police which was already on their way. Zimmerman was totally at fault for this killing and I hope he gets what he deserves ....

Sorry Rick, getting out of your car and following someone is not a crime. Especially in public. Zimmerman may not have been right to do so and it probably did start the incident but you can't place blame by using the "If" game. For example "IF" Martin wasn't walking on that sidewalk then this wouldn't have happened.

I am aware this is a ridiculous statement. It is simple meant as an illustration.

Looks like the Sanford police and prosecuter bought this dog, and now it wont hunt.

DonKeehaawtee:

Learning that his father was a retired judge and no arrests were made that night made me think the reason he wasn't arrested was because the story of the broken nose and head lacerations from getting slammed into the pavement would not have matched up with the mug shot Sanford PD would had to have taken.

He was led into the police station in handcuffs. He was arrested. He wasn't charged. The prosecutor decided he didn't have a case.

Amanda:

The police wanted to arrest him.

And they did. What they weren't able to do was charge him. Happily the police still can't detain someone indefinitely without charge.

Bonos:

Ironically, stand your ground wouldn't apply for Zimmerman b/c HE was the pursuer. He admitted on that 911 tape that he WAS pursuing the kid.

There is a difference between following, which Zimmerman did say he was doing and pursuing (which attempts a personal capture.) If, as is plausible, Martin attacked him because he was afraid of being ratted out to the police, Zimmerman was appropriately acting in self-defense. The "stand your ground" law means that it is up to the prosecutor to prove it didn't happen that way.

But Noah, when you get out of your car and follow someone and then kill them, that should be a crime.

Like most Americans, I am not going to state my opinion until Nancy Grace tells me what it should be.

By the way, this is sarcasm. Bazinga!!!!

Big Bang in the house! LOL

Trayvon Martin is dead. No amount of media sensationalism is going to bring him back. Blame what every you want, but people die and not always for good reasons... but that's life. People need to relax and let the jury sort through the evidence.

Explain to me why the hell this was collapsed.

edgewatervince, Getting out of your car then following someone does not lead to death. They are entirely separate things. You can't look for guilt by playing the 'What If" game. "What if" Trayvon didn't run? "What if Trayvon simply answered respectfully" What if... What if... there was a cascade of events that lead to the shooting. You can't isolate just one.

edge...you park your car by the sidewalk. You get out, start walking behind a guy. He doesn't like it, stops, ask you what you are doing, punches you in the face and next thing you know you're down and he's banging your head on the sidewalk. Still no crime?

EEngineer, Because you implied that mob mentality is wrong. The mob doesn't like that :) Perhaps it's because you used the word "Jury" when there isn't one? Who knows? If you don't yell lets LYNCH HIM at the top of your lungs then you must clearly be an ignorant racist (sarcasm) ... /sigh

Ron, that is not necessarily true. As someone who has sat on a jury of a murder trial where the defendant claimed self-defense in the state of FL I can assure you Zimmerman should NOT be protected under this law. However, it will be up to the jury's (if formal charges are ever filed) interpretation of the law whether he is guilty or not.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

If Trayvon sees Zimmerman coming at him with a gun and reasonably believes that Zimmerman is going to use this gun (imminent use of unlawful force) he can, by law, stand his ground and use force to subdue his "attacker". An actual threat does not have to be present. Zimmerman did not have to strike him first.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Zimmerman cannot then claim self-defense because he was the aggressor in the situation. UNLESS, he can prove that he feared for his life (i.e. life threatening injuries) or he attempted to end the fight (without using his gun) and Trayvon continued to attack him.

I wholeheartedly agree with MM. The anger stems from the DA's office not filing charges against Zimmerman. In the case I sat on, the young man was indeed defending himself and we found him not guilty, but he was still arrested, charged, and sat in prison for a year and a half waiting for his days in court. It does appear that Zimmerman has been given some benefit of the doubt or "special treatment" by some of Sanford PD's "finest" and the DA's office. If the DA is worried about winning a case, they could always file murder charges with the option of lesser charges, manslaughter, battery with a deadly weapon, assault with a deadly weapon and let the jury decide which charge fits. But ultimately a JURY should decide Zimmerman's fate and no one else.

WyattEarp,

the fact that Trayvon would still be alive if he would have just kept on going instead of confronting Zimmerman?

Where did you get these facts?

Noah,

The phone call witness has as much credibility as anyone else, she was speaking TO the victim at the time, unlike the others, that came into play AFTER an altercation occurred. I have no idea, if a "watchman" was "required" to identify himself, but If Trayvon said "why are you following me", it would seem only prudent to identify yourself, instead he said (according to witness) "what are you doing here?" and a scuffle broke out.

There's a lot of talk about George Zimmerman being a "self appointed" neighborhood watch captain. Will this change anything if it turns out he had no authority to challenge anyone in this development? As it is, how was he able to gain a gun and carrying permit with his prior arrest record?

Murder 1 for this guy. He intentionally was looking for trouble after disregarding police to back off.

Jo-An

Why are you so certain that Trayvon's girlfriend is as good a witness as anyone else? You haven't been given all the information. And I don't know about you but I can't always hear everything discussed by two people over the phone. Phones are designed to filter out noise including voices that are not speaking into it.

I would also argue that Trayvon's girlfriend is not as a good a witness as anyone else simply because she has an invested interest in the outcome. Her testamony should certainly be just as suspect or more so than Zimmerman's.

Kacz, The rumors of Zimmerman being self appointed have been debunked by the other members of the neighborhood watch. I am not sure that it matters in any case. A neighborhood watch never has any official power. As for the gun, It was legal under Florida law. I'm pro-gun control so I don't agree that it should have been. But that does not change the fact that it was.

Noah, why wouldn't she be?

That is the problem, you are only interested in witnesses that support the "Zimmerman was attacked" theory.

You argue she has a vested interested, maybe BUT she was ACTUALLY ON THE PHONE with Trayvon.

All this talk about wanting the "facts" but turning a blind eye to "actual" witnesses, while trying to turn Trayvon into the aggressor and thug, that you have no proof he was!

LOL @ Truesaid

The kid was walking home from the store after getting some Skittles for his little brother (and an ice tea for himself) during the halftime of the All Star Game. He was wearing a hoodie with the hood up because it was raining (hence the so called wet grass on Zimmerman's back).

Sorry Bigfinn, Despite your feelings even in your scenario this was not premeditated. It's murder 2 in the worst case. Besides, the police didn't tell him to back off, a 911 dispatcher did. We also don't know Zimmerman listened to this advice or not. It's certainly possible that he did and I believe he stated that he did in his original statement.

My 2 cents: This mayor is an idiot. Because of his release of the tapes, any possible jury trial is now compromised. Also, any further investigation might very well be compromised. IMO, the mayor should be arrested and charged with interfering in a police investigation.

Since when does the mayor have the power to direct the release of 911 tapes. That is evidence. If anything, it belongs in the hands of the prosecuter, not the idiot mayor. Why would the prosecutor allow the release of the tapes ? Are all prosecutors and politicians (even part-time ones) in Florida really that stupid ?

I don't know if this guy is guilty or not. We don't have all the evidence.

HOWEVER - There is danger in pressuring the DA to bring this to trial. Do Y'all remember Casey Anthony? Public outrage pressured the prosecutor to rush the trial and push for a capital offense even though he likely didn't have enough hard evidence to support it in a court of law.

All that the outrage and petitions and calls for justice and demonstrations are going to do is put undue pressue on the DA from his political bosses who want to appear racially sensitive. Then they go for Murder 1 or Murder 2. They clearly do NOT have enough evidence to support that conviction. They should go for Involuntary Manslaughter or something along those lines because that is much easy to get the conviction on. They could argue that even though Zimm didn't intend to kill Martin, his actions were irresponsible and led to Martin'd death.

In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or while committing an act that is unlawful but not felonious.

If they overreach and go for a murder conviction, they have to prove intent. They will likely lose that case. Then the guy gets off scott free because he is constitutionally protected from being put in Double Jeopardy.

The lesson boys and girls is to not whip yourselves into a lynch mob frenzy and let the prosecutors do their job. In this country we are supposed to be protected from exactly this sort of thing. Be outraged, be upset, but be productive and work to make change at your local level and back off the specific case or everyone will regret the outcome.

Joanne, Sigh... I already stated a couple reasons why the police may not be taking her testimony as seriously as the others. Do we even know that they are not? Also, I am not turning a blind eye on anything. I am simply saying that I don't know what happened and neither do you. I am not taking a position on this issue because there is not enough information to make a judgement one way or the other. I am also not trying to turn Trayvon into an aggressive thug. He was, what he was, and one of those things is certainly a thug. He may also have been a shy, innocent, baby faced boy. I never met him and I doubt you have either.

My questions are as follows:

How did Martin take zimmerman to the ground with zimmerman being significantly heavier?

If Martin punched zimmerman, his knuckles would be beat up, were they?

Is there blood on the sidewalk where zimmerman got his "head smashed?"

How do we know that zimmerman didn't pull the gun, then martin tried to defend himself by attacking zimmerman (therefore confirming the witness's testimony of martin being on top)?

Was Martin shot in the front of back? Close range or far away?

In the end, the whole situation is zimmerman's fault. The argument is whether he acted in self defense or not. I personally think he didn't and should be put in jail regardless for CAUSING this situation in the first place. Even if they prove he was acting in self defense... is it self defense if you provoke the attacker? No.

It's obvious to me what happened here, There was and is an attempt to protect Zimmerman by the People in Power because he is the SON of a FORMER JUDGE! The people in the legal system almost always tries to protect each other! Remember last year when the drunk son of a ranking police officer in Florida almost killed a homeless, black man just for fun and he was not arrested? The reason for the delay in notifying this boy's parents was to give these CONSPIRATORS time to help frame a defense for this murderer! This is common practice, it seems, in Florida. All involved in this conspiracy should be fired, charged, and then sued by Trayvon's parents!

noah, please go study up and learn what "double jeapordy" is then come back and re-post your asinine assertation. Also. Noah, the phone records from Trayvons phone match with her story. Imagine that, actual tangible evidence.

If I punch you in the face and you don't bleed, I guess it didn't happen.

There are two main protocols of the neighborhood watch program:

Do not engage suspicious people, only observe and report.

Do not carry a lethal weapon.

Had both of these or only one of these rules been followed, Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman would not be in so much trouble.

Regardless of how the events transpired or even why Zimmerman was tracking down Martin or even any other detail of their backgrounds or motives that night, that error in judgement lead to a needless and tragic loss of life for young teenager.

gbull, I didn't realize that just being the son of a former judge automatically gives a person so much power. If this is a conspiracy then it is a pretty massive one. They also didn't do a very good job covering it up now did they.

You are absolutely right Butch but they can't convict Zimmerman because he may have violated his neighborhood watch rules.

John-

Donkeehaawtee... Zimmerman was arrested. He would not be in the video in handcuffs if he wasn't. He wasn't charged, but he was arrested.

He was not arrested he was detained there is a big difference in being detained and being arrested. If you are arrested they have to charged you, they can not arrest you and not charge you. That would be unconstitutional but they can detain you, or hold you for 48 hrs.

Shellie,

"Double jeopardy is a procedural defence that forbids a defendant from being tried again on the same (or similar) charges following a legitimate acquittal or conviction."

Are you happy that I looked it up?

My so called asinine comment

So what do you suggest MM? That the DA should bring murder charges against Zimmerman? Don't forget that the DA has all the information available and you do not. If they put Zimmerman on trial for a crime that they can't prove then he will got off due to double jeopardy. Sometimes these things take time.

I said it again and it still applies. Are you happy now? Maybe I wasn't clear enough? I am not suggesting that Zimmerman will get off in his first trial because of double jeopardy. I am saying that if he is tried for murder and acquitted, because they can't prove it, then he cannot be tried again for anything else relating to this case. Thusly, why it takes time. The prosecution HAS to get it right the FIRST time.

Notice how nothing is said about TM and what he was up to that night. Zimmerman may be a gun toting crazy on one hand, but what was the kid actually doing? Just walking through the neighborhood wearing a hoodie? Think not.

/palmface

This has been covered repeatedly, for weeks now. He went to the store for candy, that's why he had skittles and ice tea on him. Did you even bother to READ a single article or two on this case before posting?

Being brought into a police station with handcuffs is not "arrested." It is being detained. A person is not officially arrested, until they are booked into the police station. He was NOT arrested.

DrowningGrover,

Trayvon's motivations are only known to him. Just because he had skittles and ice tea on him doesn't mean he wasn't doing something suspicious. It's pointless to speculate on motivations and equally as pointless to keep bringing up the skittles as if that somehow proves he was completely innocent.

raddave,

That may be true. I do not know. Why does it matter if he was arrested or simply detained?

Noah, that does not preclude the DA from bringing charges against Zimmerman and bringing this before a grand jury for an indictment.

The only evidence that Trayvon "attacked" George Zimmerman is Zimmerman's own statement. Can everyone please stop talking about the incident like that's a proven fact?

No rusty, Zimmerman is still on the streets.

Why is it that liberals protect the guilty and crucify the innocent? What would they say if 911 calls, tapes and past convictions were released that involve a criminal?

What tool was used in the burglaries? What was stolen? Was a screw driver used? Was women's jewelry stolen?

raddave, I am not sure what you mean when you say "that does not preclude the DA from bringing charges against Zimmerman..ect" I don't believe anything precludes the prosecution from charging Zimmerman except lack of evidence for conviction.

So, after all the hyperbole, this is what we are left with - there are police reports that document injury to Zimmerman. There are 911 tapes that do not specifically repudiate what Zimmerman said, and may support his version. Any criminal investigation takes time, it does not happen in one week, or even in one month. Reports indicate this will go to a grand jury. Grand juries do not convict, they merely review the evidence to determine if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial. Grand juries are not always in session, they usually meet 2-3 times a year to review one or more cases that the prosecutor needs confirmation on. IF the grand jury thinks there is sufficient evidence to take it to trial, it goes. If the grand jury thinks the evidence is too shaky, they will not send it to trial, and it will be over. If it goes to trial, it could take a year or more before the trial even begins. In the trial, the jury must find "Beyond any reasonable doubt" that Zimmerman's story is not true. Zimmerman has to prove nothing. The State must prove his guilt. If the state cannot prove "beyond any reasonable doubt," Zimmerman goes free. "Beyond any reasonable doubt" is a very high standard. It is designed to keep innocent people from going to jail. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. Finally REGARDLESS of the result, there will be riots in the street. A certain element of American society will riot and plunder and burn neighborhoods if Zimmerman is convicted for killing a black kid, and the exact same element will riot if Zimmerman is not convicted. Those are the facts we must consider and be prepared for.

zimmerman. You went after an innocent in order to appease your narcissistic and vigilante ego image in your twisted mind. A human being is dead because of your vision of a 'hero'... You went after him, he needed to defend himself against you, and you claim self defense now that he is dead. Of course you will just to save your sorry skin. Dead men can't talk. Live with yourself in your new mental jail house.

Publius said:

And they did. What they weren't able to do was charge him.

No, he was brought in in 'civil detention.' I doubt he was arrested as I have heard nothing about any Miranda warnings/rights given him so that leads me to conclude (perhaps erroneously) tat he was civilly detained until the investigation was concluded and they decided what to charge him with. And then after the police concluded their investigation and deemed it a

'Homicide-negligent manslaughter-unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act'

the prosecutors declined to prosecute. That's what bugs me abut that--shouldn't that have been presented to a jury to allow a jury to make that determination?

Happily the police still can't detain someone indefinitely without charge

The police held me in civil detention for one year and the government held me for another two. And I would have spent the rest of my life in detention if I hadn't produced the paper the government wanted.

"Secondly, of you say that there is no blood on him in the video, then you must also concede that there are no grass stains or loose dirt on his clothing. That means the altercation between him and Martin took place on concrete or blacktop, and supports the eyewitness account of Martin slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground."

No no. If you have your head beaten for nearly a minute on concrete, as zimmerman and his father claim treyvon did to him, there would be MUCH MORE blood than a skull beaten on grass or dirt. If your nose was broken, for pretty much any reason, blood tends to pour out of it. Not just drip. Between his head being beaten on CONCRETE FOR AN ENTIRE MINUTE, which by the way is way more than enough to kill someone, then why is there NOT a single drop of blood on zimmerman's clothes? Did the police do zimmerman's laundry for him? I think not.

@capecodmom

The only evidence that Trayvon "attacked" George Zimmerman is Zimmerman's own statement. Can everyone please stop talking about the incident like that's a proven fact?

Actually there is a witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman "striking him repeatedly".

This is the problem with releasing ANYTHING to the public. The court of public opinion cares little for gathering ALL of the facts before passing judgement.

DrowningGrover,

Trayvon's motivations are only known to him. Just because he had skittles and ice tea on him doesn't mean he wasn't doing something suspicious. It's pointless to speculate on motivations and equally as pointless to keep bringing up the skittles as if that somehow proves he was completely innocent.

that's complete bull@!$%#. What you're trying to do is akin to me saying "Well, I think Zimmerman was out that night looking for a black kid to kill, and then afterwards he was going to buy some cocaine, beat up a prostitute, and smuggle some Mexicans across the border. He HAS to be guilty!"

There is 100% absolutely NO EVIDENCE to suggest that Trayvon Martin was up to no good that evening and there IS evidence proving he went to the store for candy/tea. There is absolutely NO REASON to presume any other nefarious activity by Martin that evening, unless of course YOU'RE LOOKING for a reason to excuse Zimmerman for killing this kid.

You don't get it, up to the point that Martin and Zimmerman engaged in some physical confrontation Martin WAS 100% completely innocent of everything!!

Why is it that liberals protect the guilty and crucify the innocent? What would they say if 911 calls, tapes and past convictions were released that involve a criminal?

What tool was used in the burglaries? What was stolen? Was a screw driver used? Was women's jewelry stolen?

WTH are you are talking about IWonder? Trayvon hadn't stolen anything on the night in question, nor did he have a screwdriver or women's jewelry on his person. What you are referring to was a PRIOR incident at his school, this has 100% no bearing on the case in question (neither does Zimmerman's prior arrest record for that matter).

The facts of the night in question are the facts of the night in question. Past history of both men has little to do with anything.

noah-4078447,

It's really not that hard to believe that Zimmerman wasn't charged because his father is a retired judge. It doesn't have to be a massive conspiracy. One of the lieutenants son's wasn't charged for an unprovoked attack on a black homeless man until that video surfaced on YouTube.

Now that I saw your comment about what I said about the neighborhood watch rules, I want to change my statement: Zimmerman is just a small man with a gun. He's small in his mind. He's a little, little man that feels the need to be tough. He didn't need it for defense. He used it to show this black kid that he was venting all of his little man frustration on who was boss.

Not only all of that, but Zimmerman is a wimp. He received a bloody nose and an abrasion and called that life-threatening. I could bitch slap him and he would accuse me of murder.

DrowningGrover,

I did not say anything about evidence. I am saying that nobody can know with 100% certainty what Trayvon's motivations were and that it's pointless to speculate on them. Furthermore, How do you know what I am trying to do? It's actually pretty simple. I'm trying to get people to use their brains and realize that no matter what your imagination holds you are probably wrong as we simply do not possess the information required to accurately fill in all the blanks.

Your statement about Zimmerman is a possibility. Albeit a remote one.

Actually there is a witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman "striking him repeatedly".

This is the problem with releasing ANYTHING to the public. The court of public opinion cares little for gathering ALL of the facts before passing judgement.

Yes, there is one witness who claims he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. But this in no way proves that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman and initiated the physical confrontation. It just suggests that at one point in the fight, Martin got the upper hand (of course, he never really got the upper hand as he wasn't armed with a gun like Zimmerman was).

Butch,

I don't know a single thing about this case you quoted. I will say it's hard for me to believe this was a conspiracy because all of the people involved (quite a few) would have to go along with the same story. Maybe I just believe in the system more than you do? I am not aware of any evidence that suggest a conspiracy took place.

and noah - "Motivations?" He was visiting a resident of the neighborhood (his father's girlfriend). He went to the store for candy and a drink and he was walking back to his father's girlfriend's house. What "motivation?"

Zimmerman saw someone walking in his neighborhood at night he did not know. He followed the person, and called the cops. The cops told him not to follow. Zimmerman followed anyways. Zimmerman then walked up to Treyvon. Now for an educated guess. If you're Treyvon, and someone is following behind you at night, you do not have a lot of options. Most would assume they are gonna get jumped in the least. You could run, yell for help, or stand you ground. By the time Zimm got close, Treyvon could very reasonably decided to stand his ground. Treyvon most likely threw a surprise punch once zimm got too close behind him, feeling justifiably and reasonably threatened. Zimmerman, being the wannabe cop he may have been trying to be, set himself up for overreaction. Treyvon threw the punch feeling threatened, zimm knowing something about self-defense felt that was enough to "protect himself" and may have felt the initial punch from Treyvon put the law in "his hands" at that point by killing Trevon. Trey could have thrown the first punch, most likely would not have done it if he did not feel reasonably threatened. This could make finding out who the aggressor was difficult. Of course the call with Treyvon's gf that has someone yelling "help" should tell us what happened. Usually when someone yells "help" they are scared for their life.

To Amanda,

There is absolutely nothing you've posted to refute the fact that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Period

The eyewitness's account of what happened is very clear; Martin attacked Zimmerman from behind, punched him in the head and face, knocked him to the ground, and began slamming his head into the pavement.

Likewise there is nothing you have posted to refute the cuts, bruises, and lacerations that were duly noted in the police report.

Once again.....period.

I'm sorry.

But, all of your posts just aren't good enough for America.

They do not change the facts of what happened, and for as much as you hate Zimmerman, and want to burn him; it isn't going to happen.

I'm not saying Zimmerman is innocent or that and investigation or arrest shouldn't be done, but I do remember the Duke "rape" case that was tried in the media and public opinion and I remember how it turned out they were all innocent after all the facts came out. Asking people to let this play out before trying to hang this guy shouldn't make you an apologist. I think what happened is terrible but can we get some sane discourse please? The media and many in the public are acting as judge and jury on this and that is not the way to get true justice.

I did not say anything about evidence. I am saying that nobody can know with 100% certainty what Trayvon's motivations were and that it's pointless to speculate on them.

In that i'll agree. But by even suggesting that Trayvon MAY have been up to no good that evening, you are in fact speculating on his motivations.

The fact remains that there is no reason for anyone to suggest that Martin was out that night for anything other than skittles and ice tea.

I'm trying to get people to use their brains and realize that no matter what your imagination holds you are probably wrong as we simply do not possess the information required to accurately fill in all the blanks.

I wish that those vehemently defending Zimmerman would hold themselves to the standards you suggest, but alas they do not. You're correct in that we DO NOT KNOW what/how things happened that night, but that hasn't stopped defenders of Z from insinuating things like:

Martin, the thug, jumped Zimmerman from behind as Zim was returning to his vehicle (after checking a street sign and giving up on following Martin), punched him in the nose (breaking it), and then mercilessly pummeled him smashing his head into the ground until Z was nothing more than a bloodied and brutal mess.

All of the preceding is mere speculation on their part, yet they use it as a means to justify Zimmerman shooting Martin.

And then they attack those of us (like myself) who are calling for Zimmerman to at least be arrested and stand trial when we point out things like Zimmerman admits to following Martin on foot in his 911 tape (fact), Zimmerman and Martin engaged in a struggle in some backyards between two rows of townhomes far from the street and his vehicle suggesting that Zimmerman's excuse of "checking a streetsign" is likely BS (fact), that newly released police station footage shows Zimmerman without life-threatening injuries putting in doubt the severity of the vicious beating he claims to have received from Martin (fact), that the police botched this investigation by not drug/alcohol testing Zimmerman (fact) or confiscating his weapon pending a complete investigation (fact), etc., etc.

There is absolutely nothing you've posted to refute the fact that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Period

but don't you see, IT'S NOT A FACT THAT MARTIN ATTACKED ZIMMERMAN. That's speculation based solely on Zimmerman's account of that evening, as if he doesn't have every reason in the world to push that narrative. The truth is we don't know who attacked whom.

The eyewitness's account of what happened is very clear; Martin attacked Zimmerman from behind, punched him in the head and face, knocked him to the ground, and began slamming his head into the pavement.

There is NO eyewitness account stating what you just speculated here. There is ONE eyewitness who claims to have observed Martin on top of Zimmerman at some point during the struggle. This statement in no way insinuates what you are suggesting in your post. Make up more facts to suit your agenda imo...

This gets back to noah's point about:

I'm trying to get people to use their brains and realize that no matter what your imagination holds you are probably wrong as we simply do not possess the information required to accurately fill in all the blanks.

Sunrise0308

Ron, that is not necessarily true. As someone who has sat on a jury of a murder trial where the defendant claimed self-defense in the state of FL I can assure you Zimmerman should NOT be protected under this law. However, it will be up to the jury's (if formal charges are ever filed) interpretation of the law whether he is guilty or not.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

If Trayvon sees Zimmerman coming at him with a gun and reasonably believes that Zimmerman is going to use this gun (imminent use of unlawful force) he can, by law, stand his ground and use force to subdue his "attacker". An actual threat does not have to be present. Zimmerman did not have to strike him first.

First off, you would have to prove Zimmerman had his gun out to start with. There is no witness that says he did. Once the kid had the upper hand on Zimmerman and Zimmerman could not get away from him the shoot was good even if Zimmerman had grabbed him and asked what he was doing.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Zimmerman cannot then claim self-defense because he was the aggressor in the situation. UNLESS, he can prove that he feared for his life (i.e. life threatening injuries) or he attempted to end the fight (without using his gun) and Trayvon continued to attack him.

Zimmerman can claim self defense if he was the aggressor and can prove he was in fear of great bodily harm,( in his own mind)

If the state can not prove that Zimmerman was not the guy on the bottom getting hit, Zimmerman wins.

.

.

Back in January, Garcia, 25, saw Pedro Roteta, 26, trying to steal the radio from his truck, which was parked outside Garcia's Miami apartment. Garcia grabbed a large knife, ran downstairs and chased Roteta for at least a block. The incident was caught on tape and showed that Garcia stabbed Roteta to death. At the time Roteta was carrying a bag with stolen radios "but no weapon other than a pocketknife, which was unopened in his pocket and which police said he never brandished."

The Herald reports that a judge threw out the charges against Garcia, citing the state's "stand your ground" law. As we reported earlier this week, the law did away with "the English Law concept of 'duty to retreat' from a situation that is dangerous outside your home." The Florida Supreme Court also decided that it should be a judge, not a jury, who decides whether to grant a suspect immunity based on the law.

All I know is that with all the new coverage the release of the 911 tapes and the on-going coverage I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmerman is set free, because of the coverage I don't think there's anywhere in America he would get a fair trial and this may help him in his defence. these stupid people who want all the evidence thrown out in the public forum fail to realize if this happens and Zimmerman can't get a fair trial anywhere they may have no choice but to let him go free. This is the problem with giving too much info to the public...it's tweeted and blogged and posted everywhere and unless someone has been in space these past few weeks I don't think they couldn't have heard about this story and formulated their own guilt/innocence in their own heads. I fell Zimmerman will not be found guilty due to a multitude of 'facts' and that Blacks will ultimately riot no matter the outcome as is their way of protest as seen in the past, and through this action more Blacks and Whites will die.

Im sorry but Zimmerman's head is a little to shiny for having been beaten on concrete for anywhere near 60 seconds. To be honest, Zimmerman looks to alive for having his skull bone smashed on concrete 10-50 times.... I wish I could have whatever super power Zimmerman apparently has.

I'm not saying Zimmerman is innocent or that and investigation or arrest shouldn't be done, but I do remember the Duke "rape" case that was tried in the media and public opinion and I remember how it turned out they were all innocent after all the facts came out. Asking people to let this play out before trying to hang this guy shouldn't make you an apologist.

I will completely agree 100%, especially the part I bolded.

But that being said, without the media or public outrage, this case would never have even gotten to the point where a thorough investigation is/was conducted and Zimmerman may stand trial for a judge/jury to decide on guilt/innocence.

At least the Duke Rape case went to trial (or was properly investigated) and the truth DID come out. The public, and Trayvon Martin's family wasn't getting that here, and therein lies the bulk of the public outrage.

At this point there is more than enough evidence to put in doubt the veracity of Zimmerman's statements from that evening, hell, it's even been reported that some in the Sanford PD wanted to arrest him but for some reason the DA balked. After a complete investigation and a trial, perhaps he WILL be found to be innocent (I doubt it, but that's my personal opinion), but we haven't even gotten that far yet nor would we have without public outcry.

capecodmom,

Any action is motivated by something. We don't always even know ourselves well enough to know what motivates our own actions. All I am saying is that we can't know exactly why Trayvon was on that sidewalk. He may have had innocent or nefarious intentions and speculating on whether he was "casing" the neighborhood or just hungry and buying skittles or both or any other situation is completely pointless.

He didn't need it for defense. He used it to show this black kid that he was venting all of his little man frustration on who was boss.

Not only all of that, but Zimmerman is a wimp. He received a bloody nose and an abrasion and called that life-threatening. I could bitch slap him and he would accuse me of murder.

Wow, didn't know you knew Zimmerman so well. I mean you must know him to make such charges, or maybe you just assume those things of him because all Registered Democrat Hispanics are wimps? Either way thanks for your unbiased opinion.

Butch said:

There are two main protocols of the neighborhood watch program:

Do not engage suspicious people, only observe and report.

Do not carry a lethal weapon.

I have a neighborhood watch program in my neighborhood. And they stick to the observe and report rule.

I practice Kummooyeh-Korean sword disciplines. When we first moved into the neighborhood a year ago and took my swords out to the field beside the neighborhood church to practice, I was accosted by a cop who said he got a report about a crazy kid waving a sword.

I explained (and demonstrated) to him that it was a form of martial arts, I practiced, and I wasn't hurting anyone and the swords were not sharpened. I asked the cop if it was going to be a problem, should I not practice outside? He said that wasn't necessary, I was free to do as I liked just to not openly threaten someone with the swords.

So a couple weeks later a different cop stops me while I'm practicing and says he got a call from the neighborhood watch about a crazy kid waving a sword. Again, i explained the situation and demoed the forms. He told me the same thing; its fine just don't threaten anyone.

Three weeks late I see someone standing off to the side of the field watching me practice and he's on his cellphone. I sheathed my sword and waited, thinking it's another cop and I have to explain again. This time it was the neighborhood watch captain who had been hearing reports from the other volunteers about a crazy person (hey, at least they didn't call me a kid this time, I'm freakin' 35!) waving a sword, and then he saw me but this time when he called 911 the dispatcher told him it's already been investigated, I was harmless and if he would wait they would send an officer out to make an official introduction.

So I'm standing there watching him, he stands there watching me, and soon a cop drives up, talks him, walks over to me, then waves the guy over and he's introduced as the neighborhood watch captain. So I explain, for the third time, who I am and what I'm doing and since then I have had no further trouble with either the neighborhood watch, or the police, although they did tell me if I have sharpened swords leave them at home (my practice weapons are not sharpened).

That, in my opinion, is how a neighborhood watch is SUPPOSED to be run! Watch, observe, report, and let the cops deal with issues!

(BTW--when the cops got a call from dispatch some months later saying a female subject had caught someone trying to break in and was holding the burglar at swordpoint, they knew exactly who had called and where I lived and came right over. And then spent ten minutes laughing their asses off at the sight of five-foot-coke-bottle-glasses-Asian-chick holding a stoner at (blunt) swordpoint for trying to break in. If I hadn't seen that he was stoned off his a$$ I would have used the sharpened sword.)

John-1779666

Donkeehaawtee... Zimmerman was arrested. He would not be in the video in handcuffs if he wasn't. He wasn't charged, but he was arrested.

Zimmerman was not formally arrested. Police can detain a person for questioning. Handcuffs in that scenario can be used for 2 reasons. 1) Zimmerman may have been a little combative at the time they were talking to him (not physically combative). 2) Police felt it was for their safety, and Zimmerman's, to handcuff him if he was hyped up from the incident. It all depends on what happened on the scene when police got there. I haven't heard or read reports that Zimmerman was formally arrested.

Just because you see someone in handcuffs does not mean that person was arrested. Having a father, uncle, 2 cousins and other extended family being police officers, I know this for a fact.

Medical records prove nothing. His injuries could be self inflicted.

Terry,

You and others are incorrect, just because you are treated by Paramedics or EMT's does not mean you have to sign a release. You do not have to let them place a bandage on the injury or anything else, they try to get you to, but you do not have to. They can recommend that you go to the hospital or doctor but they can not make you do either. The only way that anyone can make you do anything, is if the Law Enforcement Officers on the scene decide to take you into Protective Custody because they believe you are incapable of making a rational decision because of injuries or other impairment.

Medical records prove nothing. His injuries could be self inflicted.

The kid could have shot himself with Zimmermans gun.

Picture a kid getting shot by somebody, twisting and falling face down in an opposing direction than the altercation. His hands are BENEATH his body. I have run that portion of the police report over and over, and all I can see is young Master Martin was leaving the scene of the altercation when he was gunned down. I've tried reading article after article to see where those several shots entered and exited the body, but I have yet to read a thing. Seriously? Why not? Why is that autopsy report not published? What WAS leaked was that the young boy did not have any marks on his hands, leading credence to the idea that he never hit Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman was pursuing and...tripped? The wet shirt and grass on Zimmerman's body indicated he contacted the ground at some point.

But here's another problem: as the son of a retired judge, already having wrangled the system several times to avoid being sentenced to jail, he's cognizant of the need to create a better story than the other guy's version. In Zimmerman's case, there would BE no "other guy's version" on account of the ceased pulse...EXCEPT the kid already called 911 because he was being pursued by Zimmerman and, after that, he called a friend who overheard the actual altercation.

AND...after being advised not to follow Martin, you could still hear Zimmerman's heavy breathing and the sound of his continuing on, rather than heeding the advice. The kid says he was being followed, Zimmerman is in a different locale than he originally reported, proving he was following the kid, and the friend said she heard Martin call out in fear.

THEN...after disarming Zimmerman and dropping him in the squad car, he went to check on the kid face down. He already knew he wasn't moving. Why didn't anybody rush over and perform CPR immediately? Were they waiting for him to bleed out so there would be no messy "other version"?

The cops had two halves to a whole the entire time. No drug or alcohol test?

Is there ANYBODY familiar with seances that could dig up "the other version"? No nut jobs, please.

Love how the armchair lawyers, investigators, police and prosecutors are STILL at it. So, when do all you legal beagles matriculate?

After a complete investigation and a trial, perhaps he WILL be found to be innocent (I doubt it, but that's my personal opinion), but we haven't even gotten that far yet nor would we have without public outcry.

Without the outcry you are right there probably would not have been an investigation or any other movement on this issue. I just wish the outcry from people and the media was to investigate and not inflame. The media especially has been very inflammatory on this story (probably for ratings) and might get innocent people hurt. The old couple who live next to Zimmerman know what I'm talking. (Spike Lee tweets wrong address.) Pretending to be an investigator who knows enough facts to prosecute based on media reports is dangerous and foolish, but you are right without this circus nothing might have been done.

State of Awareness,

Apologies, but incorrect, once placed in cuffs and no longer free to leave, he by the definition of the law is Under Arrest. Once you take the Liberty of Freedom away you have arrested them.

DrowningGrover,

I agree with everything you said except the implication that I am somehow speculating that Trayvon might have been up to no good that evening. All I am saying is that it's impossible to know what Trayvon's motivations were and it ultimately doesn't matter. For further illustration: Suppose Trayvon really was casing the neighborhood (as many Zimmerman supporters claim.) There still would be no evidence that Travon actually did anything wrong. We can only prosecute actions and not thoughts or motivations.

Have you listened to the calls?

Call 3 the voice screaming for help sounds like Call 1, George Zimmerman. Of course, never having heard Trayvon Martin's voice, I don't know what he sounded like, so it could have been him screaming for help. It was obvious from this call, the person was being attacked in some manner and could not get away because they were not running--the voice remained in one area in comparison with the phone. About 45 seconds into the call, there was the gunshot.

Call 4 the witness said the one "on top" of the other was wearing a white t-shirt. Zimmerman was not wearing a white t-shirt. He was wearing a red jacket. Martin was wearing a gray hoodie. Which is more easily confused with a white t-shirt to a person who glanced out the window in distress then ran to call the police?

In Call 1, the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following him, Zimmerman said yeah, and the dispatcher said, "Okay, we don't need you to do that." But it was obvious that Zimmerman was still out of his vehicle, and at no point did the dispatcher order him to get back in his car. I do agree that it sounds like Zimmerman said "F'in coons" under his breath, but he could have said "f'in coat". Also, It does sound like Zimmerman might have gone back to his vehicle in the car because he said that the kid ran and then the sound of movement and wind over the phone stops. Then the dispatcher starts to ask him where the police can meet him. He asks him the address, and Zimmerman says, "Umm, I don't know. It's a cut-through so I don't know the address." The dispatcher asks if he lives in the area, he starts to give him his home address, then he says, "Oh crap, I don't want to get out. I don't know where this kid is." At this point, it sounds like he gets out of his vehicle again (perhaps, as he said, to get the street address for the officers) then he asks to have the officer call him when he gets there.

On the initial reports, the officer says that he didn't ask Zimmerman any questions, but he noted the wet grass on his red jacket and that he was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head.

I just wish the outcry from people and the media was to investigate and not inflame...The old couple who live next to Zimmerman know what I'm talking. (Spike Lee tweets wrong address.)

I certainly agree with that, and yes, Spike was pretty dumb to retweet the address (although he did apologize to the couple and paid them for their expenses incurred when they left their house, they seem to have accepted his apology).

DrowningGrover,

I agree with everything you said except the implication that I am somehow speculating that Trayvon might have been up to no good that evening. All I am saying is that it's impossible to know what Trayvon's motivations were and it ultimately doesn't matter. For further illustration: Suppose Trayvon really was casing the neighborhood (as many Zimmerman supporters claim.) There still would be no evidence that Travon actually did anything wrong. We can only prosecute actions and not thoughts or motivations.

noah, in this case you were correct and I apologize for insinuating that you were speculating on Trayvon's intentions. In reading your initial post (that I responded to) it appeared to me as if you were, but with subsequent posts I realize you clearly were not. I think we're on the same page here. Sorry, didn't mean to strike up an argument with you, you clearly do not fall into the "Martin was a thug and deserved to die" camp that totally irritates me on this message board. Carry on :)

WoodieRae-3499404,

You are assuming that just because the evidence hasn't been leaked that it doesn't exist. There are plausible answers to your questions.

For example: If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him when the shot was fired. It is entirely plausible that Trayvon fell forward or sideways and landed with his hands under him. It is simple to tell if Trayvon was shot in the back or chest. We just don't know which it was because it hasn't been leaked.

Noah,

He was, what he was, and one of those things is certainly a thug. He may also have been a shy, innocent, baby faced boy. I never met him and I doubt you have either.

Where do these "facts" come from??

DrowningGrover,

Noah JUST told ME Trayvon WAS a THUG!

The idiot Mayor, has no legal authority to interfere with a ongoing police investigation; he could be charged with a crime for releasing evidence, for political reasons; the jury pool is now so corrupted, if there is a trial it may have to be removed to a Island, that has no newspaper, Internet, telephone, or TV; let the professional law enforcement due their job, before we go about building the gallows !

mygirl1,

Been involved in a law suit or two in my day and more then a hand full of crime scenes and accidents.

Retired Metro Police Captain/Patrol Division Commander

Jo-An,

I apologize if I mislead you. I was speaking of possibilities. If I thought he was a thug why would I state "He may also have been a shy, innocent, baby faced boy." That statement would make no sense.

I am not taking sides here but it seems to me that you are. Wrongfully so.

noah:

"He was, what he was, and one of those things is certainly a thug."

I'm confused, what did the above statement mean?

I like Drowning's last sentence:

"You don't get it, up to the point that Martin and Zimmerman engaged in some physical confrontation Martin WAS 100% completely innocent of everything!!"

I just think he should have said "Martin AND Zimmerman were 100%..." instead of just "Martin was..." because if we cannot imply motives to one, we cannot imply motives to the other. Just being fair...

Jo-An,

You took that line out of context. I was speaking about possibilities and the ridiculousness of speculation. To clear up your confusion, excuse the bold, I wouldn't want to confuse you any further.

I DO NOT HOLD AN OPINION ON WHETHER OR NOT TRAYVON WAS A THUG BUT I FIRMLY BELIEVE IT DOES NOT MATTER.

To further clarify: It is POSSIBLE that Trayvon was a thug. It is also possible that he was not. Does that help?

Loved that story Amanda!!!

WoodieRae-3499404

I've tried reading article after article to see where those several shots entered and exited the body, but I have yet to read a thing.

You missed the part that there was only 1 shot ever fired as well,maybe you should read a little slower or have your eyes checked out.

"If you aren't BLACK, then you have no idea what it's been like..." I'm white but this man has shot this black child IN COLD BLOOD! You can hear him stalking Trayvon on the phone call. He is told quite clearly to NOT follow him, but uses racial words in swearing and does so anyways.

This young gentleman was of slight build and there is NO way that this older, heftier man could have felt threatened by him, unless it was because of his race! No way this horrid man did not look at this boy and see "a black man". When he even calls the boy: a black man before following it with other swearing that frankly DISGUST me.

Z. is a Racist. Clearly the words he used were not meant in any other manner.

Perhaps he even a complete psychotic! That we do not know. On the call he sounds like he is on drugs or is a man who has lost his mind.

Sorry but listen to the way he is talking about Trayvon! He dehumanizes him, follows him (against be told not to) and then proceeds to provoke so much fear in this young man that even if he did try and flee further or defend himself he stood not a chance against this heavier, older man.

Another posted said it right: Trayvon could not have known what the man wanted! Z. could be a rapist, a kidnapper, a murderer for all he knew. And it the end *Shakes head* he was a murderer!

Just listen to the boy's cries for help and try not to cry your eyes out. I heard a scared child begging, *starts crying* BEGGING. The summation is he was most likely begging for his life. And then comes the gunshot, in cold blood. It's sad, it's disturbing and hearing that tape makes your blood curdle if you are any type of decent human being.

... And I am quite certain that the authorities did not want any of this evidence released: It makes them look as incompetent as they in fact have been, because to imagine anything else is just plain sick: That they were actively covering this murder up.

Anything that points to those facts (if they exist) have not come to light, yet. And anything about their (the police, investigators, ADA, DA, CSI) motives, or intentions is a guesstimate at this point. Something that can be done by looking at the other evidence that we all do have access to at this point.

To me, I think the authorities might have been. But of course we don't know for certain yet, one way or the other. The TRUTH, must be brought to light; the people demand it!

The video evidence, the recording of the murder has already been released as well as the witness statements, so we can all see how the perp looked afterwards and hear the crime as it occurred. It does not take a genius to hear what had happened, nor see the man who claimed he was injured, walking unaided and without any bandages or visual injuries.

Just look at this evidence! Hell listen (if you can stomach it) the call.

It's all piling up and I hope this murderer is sent to prison for his crimes. What I'd honestly like I won't say, but in the murder of a child or abuse of one I'm a Heartless wench; you can all guess what sort of retribution I personally would want to see.

And to anybody that tries to say this was not a murder: The facts speak for themselves --- Z. admits to the shooting; he is a killer by his own admission! Was it is self defense? In cold blood? Technically that is for a jury to decide, once all the evidence has been gathered, but we all have a right to our opinion and my opinion is that this murder, this taking of an innocent life was in fact in cold blood!

... There are people who are no doubt wanting Z. and are in his camp to try and get him off, so they are trying to paint Trayvon as "a bad kid" by accusing him of drug abuse and you know what I say to that --- Even IF it were true: Smoking a joint should NOT get you murdered, FFS! If such things were permitted as an excuse, then people should be shot for drinking after work -- having that glass of wine or a bottle of beer. Yes. Such an excuse for murder is actually just THAT ridiculous!

Post Script ~ You've all most likely noticed that I've been using Trayvon's first name throughout; he was a person, a good kid, a decent human being and he should not be forgotten.

And you'll note that I only use Z. for the perp's name: There is NO way I'd want him remembered, there is NO way I want to acknowledge him as anything but what he is: a killer. To put it simply I refuse to speak/ think or type his name name. It would make me feel unclean by association, using a murderer's name.

... If he gets away with this there are other words I'd use for him and none of them are his name. One thing I will be saying is he got away scot-free for killing a child and that in turns still means he is a child-killer.

And of course it must be said: This killer was not a raving lunatic in the sense he should not have to pay for his atrocious crime. Even the insane should have to face what they've done.

CBurroughs

State of Awareness,

Apologies, but incorrect, once placed in cuffs and no longer free to leave, he by the definition of the law is Under Arrest. Once you take the Liberty of Freedom away you have arrested them.

Detain: Hold in custody, Associated concepts: detained in custody, detained in jail. This means that handcuffs can be used to hold a person in custody and not be formally arrested, meaning no charges.

Arrest: The purpose of an arrest is to bring the arrestee before a court or otherwise secure the administration of the law. An arrest serves the function of notifying the community that an individual has been accused of a crime and also may admonish and deter the arrested individual from committing other crimes.

More

Neighborhood Watch celebrity George Zimmerman graduated from a high school not too far from where I live in Virginia. I certainly hope he made it to the 10–year reunion of the Osbourn Park Class of 2001, because it doesn’t look like he’s going to be attending many in the future.

Not that Zimmerman is necessarily guilty of anything, but after one has been processed by the MSM’s reputation shredder, the thought of appearing in public and defending yourself for the umpteenth time is not appealing.

Particularly when the President joins the race–baiters and says, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.” Well, Mr. President, if your mother had married a Mexican instead of a Kenyan you would have looked like George. So what?

If only Zimmerman — a Spanish speaker registered as a Democrat — had been marching in a La Raza protest or a Mexicans Without Borders demonstration. Then national Democrats, including the President, would be happy to claim him as their own. But when George made the mistake of getting a concealed carry permit and dabbled on the fringes of law enforcement, Zimmerman became a “white Hispanic” member of the conspiracy designed to keep the black man down.

Why couldn’t Zimmerman have been like those progressive employees at the Apple store in Bethesda, MD. When they heard a woman screaming in the yoga store next door, they had the decency to mind their own dang business. You didn’t see them barging in on what might have been a private matter. They didn’t even tie up valuable public resources by calling 9–1–1.

Wait, maybe that’s a bad example. Jayna Murray died after being stabbed 330 times.

In Zimmerman’s case, there actually was crime in the area he volunteered to patrol. Police records show there were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one shooting in the prior year. Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowner’s association, observed, “He once caught a thief and an arrest was made. (Zimmerman) helped solve a lot of crimes.”

A rule of thumb to remember in these “white Hispanic” vs. black controversies is the first lawyer to get in front of a TV camera is lying. Benjamin Crump and Natalie Jackson, the Martin legal brain trust, prove my point.

Begin with the photo of an angelic Trayvon wearing a red shirt. It’s a great picture, but he was 14 when it was taken. Trayvon was 17 when he was shot, almost 6’ 3” tall and weighed about 150 lbs. He also boasted tattoos, a gold mouth grill and went by the Twitter ID of “@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA.”

Martin was in the neighborhood visiting his father because he was serving his third suspension from high school. This time for possession of a marijuana pipe and an empty baggie with traces of drugs. In October, Martin had been found with 12 pieces of women’s jewelry and a “burglary tool,” but was suspended for a graffiti offense.

Once this information came to light, Martin’s mother complained, “They killed my son and now their trying to kill his reputation.” Which means it’s okay to demonize Zimmerman, but Trayvon should remain beyond reproach.

In lie number two, Crump declares, “We have to maintain over and over and over again that Zimmerman is the aggressor.”

George may have been an annoying busybody, but he was not the aggressor. Zimmerman left his SUV to follow Martin on foot, but lost sight of him. George had turned around and was walking back to his vehicle when Trayvon sucker–punched him, breaking his nose and knocking him down. Martin jumped on top of Zimmerman and began smashing his head into the sidewalk.

During the assault there was a struggle over the gun holstered at Zimmerman’s waist and Martin was shot and killed.

This brings us to lies three and four. Jackson says, “You hear a shot, a clear shot then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life then you hear a second shot.” There was only one round fired and Martin wasn’t yelling for help either. He was too busy slamming Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk, which produced a cut requiring stitches.

The person yelling for help was George.

Although the Martin legal team has proven they are quite capable of prevaricating on their own, they get help from the media. Early stories claimed the dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin. What he actually said was, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that.” This is not a command and barely qualifies as a suggestion, but that’s not how the story was covered.

Zimmerman, like the Duke lacrosse players, now has the media baying for his blood, and as a result, a majority of the public believes he should be arrested. But none of that changes the fact that if Trayvon Martin hadn’t punched George Zimmerman in the nose, he’d be alive today.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/45601

Andrea-Kalisandra-M,

How did you come by that information when nobody else has? You quite clearly do not have a firm grasp on the most up to date information. To point out one problem... Why do you assume that the person crying is Trayvon? Remember, neither of them were young boys.

State of Awareness: Yup. Just because a person is cuffed does not mean that he is arrested. If he is read his rights, charged with a crime then he is held until such time as formal charges are read against him. There are lots of cuffs place on people who are later released from custody, said people are released because they weren't arrested and charged with a crime. Distinction being charged with a crime. Arrest someone for say DUI, that person will be charged with the crime of driving under the influence. He is arraigned before a magistrate, a trial date is set and if allowed, bail is then set and if paid, then said person is released until trial date. If the trial finds him guilty as charged, then he goes to jail or fulfils whatever sentence is imposed upon him by the court.

CBurroughs: Perhaps your career in law enforcement was in a different kind of law enforcement?

This man went against neighborhood watches most basic rules. rule 1.no gun 2. only REPORT suspicious activity don't follow suspected individual with a gun that you feel you may have to use if you are attacked and even if they attack you,you put yourself in the situation by following him! rule 3. Never ever confront suspected individual especially if you are armed.

what the hell how can this guy not be held accountable for his actions what the hell how is this guy not charged with manslaughter the cops could have gotten a warrant from any judge in the state they could have easily gone around the obviously stupid attorney general and had this guy behind bars the next day!

if the cops wanted to perform a proper investigation wouldn't they have confiscated his gun as evidence!?

none of this would have happened if Zimmerman would have left it to the cops like an actual neighborhood watch captain would have but he isn't even apart of an official neighborhood watch!!!!

how can we just award his negligence and vigilante wanna be cop actions by letting him get off scott-free are we still a civilized society cause it doesn't look like it from this obviously bull@!$%#.

What does the price of coffee beans in Brazil have anything to do with this story?

Even if he did say he was with the neighborhood watch how could trayvon believe him since there is no way for Zimmerman to identify himself as such (no badge/uniform) other than saying he is so even if he did say he was with the watch it doesn't change anything especially since anyone with a brain would now he was acting like a vigilante and not an actual neighborhood watch captain.

my god at least think it through before you talk.

Name1,

1. The cops do not prosecute cases. 2. Not following the rules of a neighborhood watch (if they exist) is not a crime. 3. He may yet be charged with manslaughter but they have to have enough evidence to make the case. 4. The police DID confiscate the gun. 5. The neighborhood watch members disagree that he was not a member. 6. How do you know that Zimmerman was acting as a vigilante? 7. I will repeat your words and I hope you head them. ("think it through before you talk") That statement applies to both sides.

noah,

. Why do you assume that the person crying is Trayvon? Remember, neither of them were young boys.

THREE of the witnesses say it sounded like a "younger person, not a man", clearly it sounded that way to Andrea, and many others, as well. neither of them were young boys.

SEVENTEEN is still a child, somewhere between a boy and a man,

TWENTY EIGHT "IS A MAN"!

Ross: Well, considering all the other speculations running rampant, why not coffee beans? What color were those beans? Did those beans consent to being picked or were they picked against their will? What color was the coffee bean picker? Did the beans instigate their picking or were they minding their own business, just hanging out on the coffee bush? Were the beans a threat to the picker, did he fear for his life when picking said beans? Then, when you factor in the price of coffee beans, could Brazil be involved in attempting to control the price of beans, thereby engaging in an attempt to forcibly make coffee drinkers give up coffee drinking. The possiblities are endless. Now, onto the price of tea in China and how that relates to the killing of Trayvon Martin, there are correlations there as well....

Jo-An,

It doesn't matter how many witnesses say it sounded like a boy. That is not my point. I thought it sounded like a boy as well. My point is that Trayvon was 17 not 12. I have never in my life met a 17 year old that sounded like a boy (implied "little boy.") We know that Travon wasn't stunted. You cannot assume that the voice was Trayvon's simply because he was 17. It could have been either of them.

The medical examiner and Zimmerman's hospital records will shed more light on this particular point.

noah

I'm just saying he put himself in the situation willingly and should be held accountable the 911 tape proves that the cops have plenty of evidence to charge him but they are too incompetent to do so.

Also neighborhood watch does have rules for a very good reason so crap like this doesn't happen on a regular basis. He should not have pursued him if he believed he would not be able to handle the situation without resorting to lethal force. He broke the rules and ignored police dispatch who is trained to advise people in these kinds of situations and should be charge with manslaughter for unnecessarily inserting himself into the situation and killing someone.

mygirl1

Ross: Well, considering all the other speculations running rampant, why not coffee beans? What color were those beans? Did those beans consent to being picked or were they picked against their will? What color was the coffee bean picker? Did the beans instigate their picking or were they minding their own business, just hanging out on the coffee bush? Were the beans a threat to the picker, did he fear for his life when picking said beans? Then, when you factor in the price of coffee beans, could Brazil be involved in attempting to control the price of beans, thereby engaging in an attempt to forcibly make coffee drinkers give up coffee drinking. The possiblities are endless. Now, onto the price of tea in China and how that relates to the killing of Trayvon Martin, there are correlations there as well....

I'm going to go with, option 5, they threatened the picker. I mean....COME ON! They sit there and give you dirty looks and the evil eye. I would pick em if I thought they were threatening me with just sitting there and thinking evil thoughts! Those beans have it coming.

In all seriousness though, I am surprised at the large leap people are making about this and the claims many have stated as if they were there and know what is going on. It astounds me the stories people are fabricating in claiming to know this is what happened. Jeez. We all know it was the fungal parasite that has infected ants to make them zombies that is the cause of this.

Yes drowning, exactly. The last I heard, zimmerman has not been charged with anything, therefore; wouldn't it be fair to say that he is not a criminal? So why is information relating to an ongoing investigation being released to the liberal media on an innocent, not even charged, man? Would it be correct to say that the mayor's action is appeasement to a lynch mob?

Is that how we do it these days? Is it politically correct to put a bounty on an innocent man? Is it legal?

Name 1,

I agree that Zimmerman put himself in the situation. However, that was not the crime and he has already been punished far harsher than what the law allows for that particular action. I don't know anything about neighborhood watches. It makes sense that they would have rules in place to prevent actions like this from happening. However, disobeying a neighborhood watch in this manner is not a crime.

I disagree that there is plenty of evidence to charge him. Especially in consideration of Florida's stand your ground laws. Don't forget that we are not privy to the same information the DA office has. There is a lot that we don't know. If they put him on trial but can't make a case he'll get off scott free. I wish people could understand that. I see no reason to believe that the prosecution is doing anything improper.

also how can he even be given a license to carry a gun the man has an obvious history of violent anger management issues including assaulting a cop and has a restraining order placed against him by his ex-wife for violent behavior.

way to go Florida giving guns to psychopaths good job.

@brothas brotha:

"This shooting has struck a personal connection to all BLACK people across America. If you aren't BLACK, then you have no idea what it's been like, having to deal with false accusations,"

You do realize that you are saying that black people only care when blacks are killed, don't you? Why do you only feel connected to black victims? You are also saying that non-blacks don't care about Trayvon's death- that is a racist assumption.

The ultimate hypocrisy though is that in your mind you have convicted Zimmerman of a hate crime solely because he is not black! Did it ever occur to you that Zimmerman knows exactly what it is like to deal with false accusations? Or is his skin color all the evidence you need to know he is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt?

This "personal connection" you are claiming is clouding your objectivity.

name1,

I agree that Zimmerman should not have been allowed a conceal and carry permit. Not so much because of the charges placed against him (which were later reduced) but because I don't think ANYONE should have a conceal and carry permit.

J. Merle Stanley said:

To Amanda,

There is absolutely nothing you've posted to refute the fact that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Period

The eyewitness's account of what happened is very clear; Martin attacked Zimmerman from behind, punched him in the head and face, knocked him to the ground, and began slamming his head into the pavement.

Likewise there is nothing you have posted to refute the cuts, bruises, and lacerations that were duly noted in the police report.

Once again.....period.

I'm sorry.

But, all of your posts just aren't good enough for America.

They do not change the facts of what happened, and for as much as you hate Zimmerman, and want to burn him; it isn't going to happen.

Whoa. Not once in any of my posts do I say I want to burn him. If you remember, back when I first crossed posts with you, I stated:

In the end however it's not what I believe or what you believe, what Al Sharpton believes or even President Obama believes-- whether a court finds him guilty or not, eventually Death the Great Equalizer is going to come for him an it will be a moot point. And if there is God and He does judge you after you're dead, then Zimmerman will, eventually he'll get whatever he deserves and that is between his God and Him.

Personally I believe in reincarnation and I hope he comes back as a roach.

And the roach comment is something that I make for everyone who kills a child. Seriously, what we discuss here is not going to make a bit of difference in the big picture. whether he gets convicted or not, charged or not, jailed or not, the sun will still rise tomorrow and the world will keep on turning. Right now it's just a slow day at the office and I'm killing time till close of business.

noah

definition of manslaughter in this situation and punishments

Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence: Engaging in “Culpably Negligent” conduct that resulted in the death of another person.

The crime of Manslaughter is classified as a Second Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 7 offense severity ranking under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code.

If convicted of Manslaughter, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 9¼ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

• Up to 15 years in prison.
• Up to 15 years of probation.
• Up to $10,000 in fines.

now tell me his negligent actions in no way led to this kids death.

noah - Thank you for clarifying. It seems I misunderstood your intent & jumped off the deep end without looking. I apologize.

noah

i agree i don't think anyone should be allowed to conceal a gun too =)

name1:

That's hard to say. I can't make that judgment (and I'm glad I don't have to) if this was my state I'd be all for it. However, the prosecutors are bound by the law. What lead up to the incident is really only relevant (because no crime was committed) if he is charged with manslaughter. If he really has a self defense case (muddled even more by Florida law) then it's pretty hard to pin anything on him.

capecodmom,

Thank you, I know that many of posts here today are very confusing. Especially if you jump into the center of them.

Well I think given the 'facts' that have been given here I hope that Zimmerman gets off with it. I know this is not a popular response to all the armchair lawyers and judges but I believe from the police reports and the injuries suffered by Zimmerman that his version and that of the police and EMT's will win out. I also believe that Zimmerman can never get a fair trial anywhere in this country. The media circus that has been created arouind this incident and the fact of the retard Spike Lee and the Black Pussy Party's antics for the tweeting of Zimmerman's address (wrong Zimmerman and wrong address...phucking idiot Lee) and the Black Pussy Party's $1M reward 'dead or alive' for Zimmerman. Why hasn't anyone of these people been arrested for incitement to murder or placing a 'bounty' on Zimmerman's head....one simple fact, because they're BLACK, plain and simple, if that's not the case then where are the arrests? There are no arrests because all the perps are BLACK and that is the only reason. If the Klan had put out a 'bounty' on OJ's head at the time the FBI would be all over every Klan member in the country to get who placed the 'bounty' but because these people are BLACK they get a by.

I only hope Zimmerman walks and then the BLACKS can show their outrage by again rioting and looting and burning everything in sight as appears to be their only response to percieved injustices. Again we will have to see Billions of dollars in damage and needless deaths of both BLACKS and WHITES which are surly to happen if this rioting takes place. At the most if Zimmerman is found guilty it will be a plea deal of 10-15 yrs for the death as well as discharging a firearm and any other bogus charge they want to stick him with and if he gets this sentence he will 'walk' in about 7 years.

its just the whole stand your ground law in itself only encourages renegade vigilante behavior and should be removed from the states legislation.

seriously florida you give a man with a history of violent behavior license to own and conceal a gun and have a law that makes it ok to be a renegade vigilante!! Florida is becoming the new wild west.

name1,

It seems that way to me also. Also, if we had enough funding for actual law enforcement we wouldn't have a need for neighborhood watches, vigilantes or otherwise.

neighborhood watch only reports suspicious activity and stay put they are fine. vigilantes on the other hand go around and play cop and throw themselves into dangerous situations that they cannot handle without using deadly force and often get innocent people killed.

Zimmerman is definitely a vigilante and should be punish and was never punished other than allegedly getting his ass whooped by trayvon who did nothing wrong tile Zimmerman put him in a scared and confusing situation by following him through the street.

LOL @ Sunrise-

Oh, so you were there with him and know for an absolute 100% fact that was what he was doing. Just innocently walking home when this guy went on a rampage and shot him thinking he was up to no good just because he was wearing a hoodie. You have no facts nor do you need them because you see what you want to see and no amount of truth backed by evidence will suffice. Thankfully we have due process to protect society from foaming at the mouth crazies like you. Enjoy your skittles.

Ryan21,

No no. If you have your head beaten for nearly a minute on concrete, as zimmerman and his father claim treyvon did to him, there would be MUCH MORE blood than a skull beaten on grass or dirt. If your nose was broken, for pretty much any reason, blood tends to pour out of it. Not just drip. Between his head being beaten on CONCRETE FOR AN ENTIRE MINUTE, which by the way is way more than enough to kill someone, then why is there NOT a single drop of blood on zimmerman's clothes? Did the police do zimmerman's laundry for him? I think not.

Maybe because of the paramedics that where on site. Man you guys are making something out of nothing; the evidence right now which is only on witness says the something Zimmerman does, therefor Zimmerman would be justified in the shooting of Martin.

Roseann Barr, that stalwart example of feminine pulchritude and defender of all things that will get her face in the news just tweeted Zimmerman's parents address. The correct address. Now, after what went down w/ less-than-bright Spike, Roseann does the same thing. MSNBC closed the comment section on this, as well as the comment section for the story on how Al Gore just fired Keith Olbermann. Gotta love how they invite discussion, as long as they control the material. Hate Zimmerman? Comment away.

Nothing like one-sided 'news' to brighten one's day.

@bill,

the paramedics had some magic elixir, or pixie dust, to take away the damage done by the BIG BAD NINJA Trayvon....

All that BEATING, and POUNDING, and making Zimmie "cry for his life", POOF, just GONE!

Zimmie looked pretty good in that SPD surveillance tape! 34 mins after the fight of his life...

Who believes this BS?

mygirl,

Go back to FAUX, they miss you!

Why, Jo-An:

Guess you're ok with those 'tweets' then? Nothing says demanding 'justice' better than hoping to see someone harmed or worse, killed as a result of vigilantism. Will your thirst for 'justice' be satisfied if someone bombs the home of Zimmerman? Will 'justice' be served if someone sets fire to said home? Will it please you if Zimmerman's parent's are killed? Will you feel exonerated?

What tweets?

hint...give a link if you want to "sound creditable".....

Guess you missed the first sentence of the post which you were so quick to castigate me about? Go to FAUX news, they have the story. MSNBC as well, although MSNBC disabled the comment section.

so......you have.....NOTHING....

no answers? just castigating....LOL...really?

But, seriously, if you say "tweets" back it up with a link....not hard....

We can have opposing opinions, but I can't read minds, so If I query someone about the info they are standing behind, that's all...just asking for reasons...

Sigh. I gave you the answer. As to backup, go reread post #1.186,( it was the one you told me to go to FAUX news because they miss me, remember?) Then, go to the homepage news on MSNBC. There is a story about Roseann Barr tweeting the address of Zimmerman's parent's house. This coming after Spike Lee tweeted the wrong address, putting the elderly couple in danger. Now, if you are unaware of this news, which I was posting about, why did you tell me to go back to FAUX? Do you arbitrarily deem certain people unworthy of posting on newsvine?

Hate is a powerful emotion, I do not hate the person who is responsible for these older/newer tabs but I do wish that he/she/it had them crammed! :)

Most white people are mrderers in our society whom are walking freely by commiting henous crimes. White are these people being giving the right to commit all crimes without justice. Its the right-wing establishment that has been creating a shadow to cover-up white peoples crimes, so the justice sytem in the US did.

This is a racial system that go profiling other race as the criminals in the US whiles hiding every evil a white man committed, White people rob bank, white people are murderers, white pwople are frauds, white people are the greatest criminal, on the internet they are the hackers stealing our bank accounts.

Who are the white people: the white people are Caucasians, Hispanics and Arabs, These are all white people.

This is why they are hiding George Zimmerman for murdering Trayvon Martin. Zimerman is guilty and that Stanford Police and the one defending George Zimmerman are racist. If Trayvon was the shooter,they would have arrest him and charge him. Therefore this is a racial case, the cops and their associates at Stanford Police are racist in handling the Trayvon case with all sort of lies to defend a guilty Zimmerman.

We all heard the 911 tapes, we saw all the videos, there is enough evidence that proves that Zimmerman is guilty. Arrest George Zimmerman. Justice for Trayvon Martin. Justice for all.

Arrest George Zimmerman. Justice for Trayvon Martin. Justice for all.

I am Trayvon Martin.

@mygirl....sigh...

Who cares about Roseanne barr, blah, blah, blah....NO RELEVANCE to this thread,

I didn't even read your nonsense...as soon as I see blaming others ....I tune you out...

It's typical RWNJ behavior, deflect....

It's FAUX time!

You can defend Zimmie all you like, but it sure looks like his lies are unraveling right before our eyes!

Jo-An: Typical. In your rush to get ol'Zimmie, you would stop at nothing, right? You don't care if others are killed in the process (think riots, bombings, setting fire to houses, etc) because, you, in your infinite wisdom. deem the system inept and believe that a 'murder' is walking free. You don't seem to have the capacity to understand that two wrongs don't make a right or that getting innocent people killed in your zeal to punish Zimmerman is so very, very wrong.

Zimmerman's parents didn't kill Trayvon, the elderly couple whose address Spike disseminated didn't kill Trayvon and the actions of people like Spike and Roseann are causing innocent people, people who had NOTHING to do with killing Trayvon, to be put in harms way.

You don't have the capacity to understand consequences of actions, you wouldn't understand or don't want to understand that innocent people should not be caught up in a desire to extract revenge and this is all about revenge, justice isn't in the picture. Lynch mobs are all about revenge, the mob mentality rules and if an innocent person gets hung, well, too bad. They had it coming since they got caught in the need for blood and revenge. Peopel with your mindset are scary. No thinking, no evaluation of possible consequences, just the need to get revenge. All emotion and no intellect.

Jury: So, calling for rational thought, caution and the desire to see that no one is harmed in your quest for justice is now racist. You hate white people and Zimmerman needs to get punished and anyone defending Zimmerman (in this case calling for calm, rational thought and deliberate action is 'defending' Zimmerman) and therefor, anyone not calling for Zimmerman's head on a plate is a racist. Typical. The sad part is that you don't understand what you are saying, that stating you hate white people, all white people, is racist.

I never condoned any of that, who are you parroting? Hannity? O'Reilley" Beck? Which one?

BOO!

I'm so SCARY!

I hope you have your "gold" and "rations", grab you bible and your GUNS, don't forget your ammo....

dear me, and here I thought I was communicating with a person of reasonable intelligence. Didn't ask for much intelligence, but any would be better than none.

Nevermind, go back to hurling insults, much easier that thinking. Sad that you don't realize how bigoted and racist your comments are...where do you get you script?

How do we know that zimmerman didn't pull the gun, then martin tried to defend himself by attacking zimmerman (therefore confirming the witness's testimony of martin being on top)?

This really troubles me too. It would totally make sense as to why Trayvon acted in self-defense. From what I understand there are no witness's that witnessed the initial confrontation. In saying as much, I believe Zimmerman's tracks are covered. He will not be found guilty.

:)

Peace!

The thought process of those who justify Trayvon's murder is transparent. What rational person would even assume that Z is innocent based upon all that has been presented this far. Now, I understand Z's family supporting him with half baked alibi after alibi, but this external support is dishonorable to everyone, including yourself. This Stand Your Ground law is a suspect in every murder that has been carried-out under it. What purpose is there for law enforcement if everyone is now cleared to kill with impunity. I submit to this judicial system that this, in itself, is terrorism because any of us can walk up to anyone and take their life and say "I was in fear of my mine" and kill an innocent person. Especially if there is no one around to convey otherwise. We have seen and heard enough Wild Wild West stories, of late, to know that this law is not fashionable to justice and highly detrimental to our security and freedoms. Trayvon's murder should enlighten you all to the dangers imposed by this law, but instead it has emboldened some of you to take aim at live targets. 911 operators are victimized by fools who disregard their advice and fire their weapons at unarmed people, because they have been given a green light by the woman (Lady Liberty) to be judge, jury and prosecutor. Load your weapons and fire away because all I see is dead people. With no hearts and no souls, but with sufficient hate to kill, even a child who only went to the store to get some candy and a soda. That's really pathetic.

Most white people are mrderers in our society whom are walking freely by commiting henous crimes. White are these people being giving the right to commit all crimes without justice.

The jury, I hope that you are neither on a jury, or teaching English at any level in our nation's school systems.

I've never seen such a collection of poorly expressed, fuzzy, paranoid thoughts, even on blog pages such as this one.

Zimmerman should have been arrested the first day.

I am very sad for this family. I cannot listen to the 911 tapes anymore. I am too sad.

The Martin's lawyer Ben Crump is fighting a battle against the state for his clients rights.

That is why it was so nice to see him (on his website) thanking people for donating money for the case. He needs it.

The Martin's "argument" should not be the primary focus here.

The Martin's "argument" should not be the primary focus here.

That's right, we shouldn't care about the victim. This is a whole new position taken by the right. They are no longer the moral principled Americans. They've lost their advantage in America.

This is a whole new position taken by the right.

Since when did this become a right or left thing, Or is it that it fits into your agenda to say the "Right " has a war on minorities, FYI Zimmerman is a registered Democrat.

That's right, we shouldn't care about the victim.

So based solely on what has been reported and released to the media you have made a determination on guilt or innocence and yet all the local,county,state and federal agencies and their investigators have not charged anyone with anything.

A young man is dead and anotherman took his life, At this point we do not know all the facts and have all the evidence of this case, We are not privileged to all of the information and evidence and we are not qualified to judge what actually happened.

There is no way you can tell which of the two was yelling out on the tape. Martins' mom heard what she wanted to hear. Why is Al Sharpton even allowed to discuss the case with any witnesses? That can easily be construed as witness tampering. Releasing the 911 tapes only served to inflame the issue more. The general public doesn't have the right to see and/or read any and all information to this case. The more thats put out there for the whole world to see and discuss the more the potential jury pool is tainted. Pretty much no way Zimmerman can expect to have an unbiased jury of his peers any where in the state or the world for that matter. President Obama should publicly be calling for cool heads, justice in a court of law only, that all have a right to a fair trial and for all to stop trying this case in the media. He should be denoucing the "reward" out on Zimmerman, telling Holder to investigate the black panther leader. Telling the revs. to stay out of it and reminding Senators and Congressman that they need to behave properly and keep ther personal opinions out of the media. He also should be telling Spike Lee and all other celebrites to keep out of it as well and he should be contacting the elderly couple harassed due to Spikes retweet and apologizing to them for all their distress. He should pay for the couple to come to DC and have Lee there as well offering up a personal apology. HE likes to apologize where none is need but should step up when it is, like now. He is supposed to be leading and uniting this country not dividing it.

Zimmerman did not look at all like he'd been in a fight.

Zimmerman, no bruising, no black eyes, no bloody nose, no blood on his clothes. Does not at all look like he has been in any type of "fight for his life" as his judge-father would claim. Acts perfectly calm, like he has everything in control. Of course, the fix was in.

And the next day doesn't count as far as anything medical. Only immediate medical examination at a hospital counts. He could easily have given himself a broken nose overnight so he would have some type of excuse for killing this innocent teen.

Zimmerman story is a bunch of lies.

.

The more thats put out there for the whole world to see and discuss the more the potential jury pool is tainted.

Especially, when it is put out in such a slanted fashion. Let's face it, those pictures of Trayvon Martin from when he was 12 were intended to stir up public opinion against Zimmerman. With that mission accomplished, railroading him will probably be easy. Without that, Zimmerman has a self-defense claim and Florida law puts the onus on the prosecution to prove that claim false. They would probably have charged him initially, if that burden was on Zimmerman.

Zimmerman has been picked apart by every dimwit out there. How about we see a recent pic of trayvon instead of the one when he was 10 and how about we look into his record?? Gotta feeling he ain't such a sweet little kid!!!!!!!

How about you keep up with the story you are so miserably failing to attempt to comment on. Recent photo's have been released. Guess you missed that in all your infinite wisdom huh? Photos taken 9 days before wannabe cop killed him. That recent enough for you?

skrewdworld,

First off, how do you know that Martin's mom is only hearing what she wants to hear? Do you not think a mother would recognize her only son's voice apart from a stranger's after listening to the tapes? Why would a man with gun be yelling for help? I'm not absolutely saying that it wasn't Zimmerman calling out for help, but from what we know thus far, it would seem to make more sense that Martin was calling out for help because he saw a gun.

Releasing the tapes was the right thing to do. There is no reason to hide them. Keeping them from the public would have been far more inflammatory and would only serve to raise suspicions greater than they are now.

Zimmerman can absolutely receive a fair trial. Do you recall the Rodney King beating video? Remember all of the outrage over that? The police department got off scott free.

Your recollection of Obama's statement of this matter is foggy. He absolutely did say to let the investigators do their job and this matter deserved a fair, accurate and thorough investigation. Go back and listen to it again.

In regards to Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson - where have you been living for the past three decades? They're going to talk about this.

Politicians are going to chime in. They give their opinions. They're are leaders and to let people know that they care about the issue. This is what they do. They persuade people with words. Asking a politician to be quiet is like asking a leopard to remove it's spots. It would simply be against it's nature.

The president has no right to tell any free citizen what to say or not say. He's the leader of the free world and the nation that came up with the Declaration of Independence. It would be the ultimate irony and hypocrisy for him to tell anyone not to say anything that wasn't jeopardizing national security.

Spike Lee did apologize to the couple and offered them a financial restitution of sorts. He made a mistake and he apologized. He overlooked some fact checking. It's over and done with.

Shellie-657180,

Thank you for saying that! I just love it when people like usa1967 come out and insult people for having an opinion and then can't even keep up with current status of the case without opening his big mouth and inserting his big foot into it.

either way you look at it. zimmer is toast. unless of course he has the money to hire the best lawyers. and to usa1967, that is purtty dimwitted of you to base or pass your judgement solely on one picture.

Pvblivs,

Sorry, Pvblivs. Doesn't matter where the case is handled within the U.S. The onus is always on the prosecution to prove the defense's claims wrong.

I'm pretty sure the courts will show recent photos of Martin for the jury to see.

UnitedStates1776,

So true. It only stands to reason that Zimmerman would have sustained a life threatening injury or something more substantial than an abrasion or bloody nose. There was no bruising, swelling, limping, cracked ribs or concussion. Zimmerman must be the biggest wimp of all time of he considers what he received from that altercation to be "life-threatening".

So, after all the hyperbole, this is what we are left with - there are police reports that document injury to Zimmerman. There are 911 tapes that do not specifically repudiate what Zimmerman said, and may support his version. Any criminal investigation takes time, it does not happen in one week, or even in one month. Reports indicate this will go to a grand jury. Grand juries do not convict, they merely review the evidence to determine if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial. Grand juries are not always in session, they usually meet 2-3 times a year to review one or more cases that the prosecutor needs confirmation on. IF the grand jury thinks there is sufficient evidence to take it to trial, it goes. If the grand jury thinks the evidence is too shaky, they will not send it to trial, and it will be over. If it goes to trial, it could take a year or more before the trial even begins. In the trial, the jury must find "Beyond any reasonable doubt" that Zimmerman's story is not true. Zimmerman has to prove nothing. The State must prove his guilt. If the state cannot prove "beyond any reasonable doubt," Zimmerman goes free. "Beyond any reasonable doubt" is a very high standard. It is designed to keep innocent people from going to jail. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. Finally REGARDLESS of the result, there will be riots in the street. A certain element of American society will riot and plunder and burn neighborhoods if Zimmerman is convicted for killing a black kid, and the exact same element will riot if Zimmerman is not convicted. Those are the facts we must consider and be prepared for.

@BearDown-3307297

That's right, we shouldn't care about the victim. This is a whole new position taken by the right. They are no longer the moral principled Americans. They've lost their advantage in America.

A- no one said that, B-you have no clue whether they are right or left

Any other BS you'd like to make up in order to bash the "other guys"? Is this what you do, look for random excuses to post your political drivel on every story you read?

How about the pictures of Zimmerman. That mug shot photo of him was, most likely, five or more years old. People like yourself are too racist to see things as they actually are. No matter how you slice it Zimmerman will not escape God's judgement.

There is no open door policy to justice for black people, because the Dukes have appointed themselves Kings and Judges by covering the eyes of black people with slavery, discrimination and poverty. You whites have good reason to fear black people, after all you have done to us. Be afraid, be very afraid because you will all get your just reward.

UnitedStates1776

Zimmerman did not look at all like he'd been in a fight.

Zimmerman, no bruising, no black eyes, no bloody nose, no blood on his clothes. Does not at all look like he has been in any type of "fight for his life" as his judge-father would claim. Acts perfectly calm, like he has everything in control.

That is the point of self defense,

you kill the other person before they do major damage to you,

you do not have the legal obligation to wait until you are hurt.

"That is the point of self defense,

you kill the other person before they do major damage to you,

you do not have the legal obligation to wait until you are hurt."

Too bad that goes against Zimmerman's claim of having his head beaten on concrete for a minute. But you did not refute that zimmerman appeared to be fine. Usually when someone has their head beat on concrete or something just as hard for anywhere near a minute, they die or slip into a coma. Apparently he can heal like wolverine or something right? I hope I don't go as bald as Zimmerman one day, because his head was still shiny a few hours after the incident and everyone saw it

The cop looks at the back of zimmermans head on the tape and says the back of his head was bleeding in the report,

So i guess it is you that has no proof.

Zimmerman will walk

There will be no conviction,

people like you that can not read the law and comprehend it will still be on here crying about how wrong the judge was to never put Zimmerman on trial.

Zimmerman is covered under the law, If you think he is not then prove it.

The state and the Feds can not even figure out how to charge Zimmerman on a technicality,

Zimmerman will be immune from civil suit as well.

Call the Feds and tell them you have found a loophole they can use to charge Zimmerman with,i am sure they will appreciate the help.

So that was zimmerman screaming for help before the gunshots. Got it.

It's still completely possible for zimmerman to be charged. You and I do not have all the facts. All I'm saying is zimmerman, at the very least, exaggerated what happened to him. Unless of course martin wasn't actually beating his head on concrete for near a minute...

Ryanb21

So that was zimmerman screaming for help before the gunshots.

Thats what the witness says

and Zimmerman backs up the witness.

It's still completely possible for zimmerman to be charged.

using what law and what would the charge be, could they prove the charge in court?

Then a little voice analysis should be able to confirm that. I for one would be yelling for help if i had the gun pointed at me. Either way it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have much if not any more than a cut on his head despite his own claims. Of course, casey anthony lied to police too

@Ryanb21

Usually when someone has their head beat on concrete or something just as hard for anywhere near a minute, they die or slip into a coma.

Oh, well since that's what "usually" happens he must have been lying right? Let's just get this over with and drop a rope from a tree. After all he's "probably" guilty of something and clearly that is good enough for most of the people commenting on the story.

So you think Zimmerman was standing there letting this kid yell for help until he got tired of it then shot him?

Usually when someone has their head beat on concrete or something just as hard for anywhere near a minute, they die or slip into a coma.

I thought they just kept an eye on their watch so they could give a real good account of how long they were being assaulted.

"Oh, well since that's what "usually" happens he must have been lying right? Let's just get this over with and drop a rope from a tree. After all he's "probably" guilty of something and clearly that is good enough for most of the people commenting on the story."

That was weird. I never once said he should be killed or that he did cause the whole situation because that was most likely what happened. If this were a bet, I haven't made one. If I had to bet right now I would say zimmerman is at fault.

"using what law and what would the charge be, could they prove the charge in court?"

Once we have all the facts I'll let you know.

"So you think Zimmerman was standing there letting this kid yell for help until he got tired of it then shot him?"

Nope.

Usually when someone has their head beat on concrete or something just as hard for anywhere near a minute, they die or slip into a coma.

I thought they just kept an eye on their watch so they could give a real good account of how long they were being assaulted.

If I had to bet right now I would say zimmerman is at fault.

Of what? he has been charged with nothing so he is at fault of nothing.

"I thought they just kept an eye on their watch so they could give a real good account of how long they were being assaulted."

So you think zimmerman may have at least partially lied?

"If I had to bet right now I would say zimmerman is at fault.

Then prove it because as it stands right now Zimmerman is charged with nothing,"

Why would I help prove something I had to do?? That's the purpose of "if i had"

I think Zimmerman is a free man.

Ryanb21

That was weird. I never once said he should be killed or that he did cause the whole situation because that was most likely what happened. If this were a bet, I haven't made one. If I had to bet right now I would say zimmerman is at fault.

Not "having" to bet hasn't kept you from sharing your opinion which you admit is based on speculation.

there is not enough evidence to conclude murder but the 911 call by Zimmerman just before the fighting is enough to prove Zimmerman escalated the situation by placing himself in it and by continuing to follow trayvon when the police said it was unnecessary so he should be held accountable for what happened and charged for manslaughter.

Has the tape of Travon buying skittles and tea from the store been released?

Seems like that would be all over the place just to show how innocent looking he was.

Butch:

Do you not think a mother would recognize her only son's voice apart from a stranger's after listening to the tapes?

I do not think there is any mother who would say that a stranger was feeling threatened by her son.

Why would a man with gun be yelling for help?

Because the gun is intended as a last resort. He would have rathered to get out of that situation withoutkilling anyone.

Spike Lee did apologize to the couple and offered them a financial restitution of sorts. He made a mistake and he apologized. He overlooked some fact checking. It's over and done with.

Are you saying that you think the "go kill him, guys" mentality of posting an address as Zimmerman's would be acceptable, but for the fact that it was the wrong address? It's not over because we still have the lynch-mob mentality and he still thinks that assisting the lynching is a good thing.

Sorry, Pvblivs. Doesn't matter where the case is handled within the U.S. The onus is always on the prosecution to prove the defense's claims wrong.

Sadly, that is not the case. The onus is always on the prosecution to show that the main event being identified as the crime happened -- in this case, that Zimmerman pulled the trigger. But, as several of Martin's supporters have pointed out, self-defense is usually an "affirmative defense." An affirmative defense is one in which the burden is on the defense to show that it holds in the particular instance.

opp, I agree with you, if there is nothing to hide why try to hide it? This whole affair is disgraceful, most other states would have released the tapes weeks ago.

No, actually most other states likely wouldn't have released such tapes this early in an investigation.

The reason you don't want to release such things to the public is because it can influence many things in an investigation and later on in a trial. Let's say for a moment that Zimmerman is charged with a crime due to this investigation. The defense attorney at trial will ask each potential juror if they have seen this tape. Most will end up saying yes and that will be a reason for exclusion from a jury. If they are not excluded, jury pool pollution is perfect grounds for a mistrial or an appeal if a conviction occurs.

So, while releasing the tapes may satisfy people's curiosity regarding the case, it does nothing to actually move this case forward to a trial, but rather provide ample opportunity for a mistrial or an appeal later should a conviction occur. People that want to see this person convicted of a crime are actually shooting themselves in the foot by demanding release of the video tape because it reduces the chances of Zimmerman getting a fair trial should be he be charged with a crime. If a judge determines that it is impossible for Zimmerman to receive a fair trail or an appeals judge determines that he did not receive a fair trial, then the prosecutor is back to square one with the case and will likely settle for a very light plea bargain.

People really need to think about things before requesting that they be done as opposed to letting anger and emotion dictate their actions... It ends up hurting your goals in the long run.

hindsight is 20/20, but it is so easy for us 2 have an opinion on how someone who has lost a loved one should feel & think, when we ourselves wouldn't trade the Martin's shoes for anything right now!!!

Guess the mayor does not adhere to the southern good ole boys rules that you are never wong if you kill a minority.

We've hears so many 911 calls with homicides, why would this be different anyway? Why the hemming and hawing on this one? It doesn't add up.

Zimmerman's lawyer has already suggested that Zimmerman could not get a fair trial anywhere in Florida, and possibly the United States.

The defense attorney at trial will ask each potential juror if they have seen this tape. Most will end up saying yes and that will be a reason for exclusion from a jury.

Why? Do you think once empaneled on the jury a member will not eventually hear the 911 tape? What difference would it make if they had already heard it. The tape is what the tape is...any influence hearing the tape will have on jury member will be the same no matter the timing.

Why should the agency (a public service to begin with) whose actions are being questioned have total control of the evidence and thereby disallow public scrutiny of any attempt to manipulate the evidence in their own favor?

One of the important facts about justice is that: "Justice must not only be served, but it must be seen to be served."

Withholding information always gets translated as "hiding something".

Releasing the tapes could effect the investigation? What investigation? Zimmerman was already given the SBYG get out of jail free card - case closed.

culheath,

Do you really believe that the police release all the information they have in every investigation just to make sure that no one can say they were hiding something?

jrl-281852

culheath,

Do you really believe that the police release all the information they have in every investigation just to make sure that no one can say they were hiding something?

Nope...because frequently they are hiding things or at least attempting to frame the information in a such a way that it reduces their culpability. It's the same with almost every government agency, they are loathe to release information to the public out because information is power and most men in power are desperate to maintain control of that power.

The trial could be moved because of pretrial publicity, if the juror admitted it that publicity would affect their ability to judge the evidence fairly. The 911 tape and video are evidence, not publicity.

How may remember the Rodney King case. It was undeniable police brutality per the widely publicized video before the trial, but somehow the lawyers managed to convince some on the jury they were not seeing what they were seeing.

911 tapes are public record, and since Zimmerman has not been charged they have not been tagged as evidence. In many or most states, the 911 ARE released to the news media when asked. If it was my son, black or white, or purple, I'd want justice and would be screaming from the roof tops. I don't blame the Martin's for seeking public media help. Sometimes it's the only way to get justice of any kind. And it may be the only reason this case comes to trial in the first place. There's the shame.

culheath

Why? Do you think once empaneled on the jury a member will not eventually hear the 911 tape? What difference would it make if they had already heard it. The tape is what the tape is...any influence hearing the tape will have on jury member will be the same no matter the timing.

Why should the agency (a public service to begin with) whose actions are being questioned have total control of the evidence and thereby disallow public scrutiny of any attempt to manipulate the evidence in their own favor?

One of the important facts about justice is that: "Justice must not only be served, but it must be seen to be served."

Withholding information always gets translated as "hiding something".

While it's true that the tape is what it is...potential jurors who have followed the case in the media may have already formed their own opinions. A juror who 'thinks' they know all of the facts may ignore the real facts - and this goes BOTH ways...FOR and AGAINST the defendant. While some facts (911 calls, police station video, Trayvon shot, Zimmerman shot him) have been released, MSM then adds their thoughts and opinions through their 'experts'. Finding impartial jurors if Zimmerman is ever charged will be next to impossible.

MSM is feeding a frenzy with all of their reports. From the pic of Trayvon at a much younger age, to the pic of Zimmerman in jailhouse orange. They've written articles smearing Trayvon and articles smearing Zimmerman. They continue to stir the frenzy...to the point that when all of the facts are posted...nobody will believe them.

Don't get me wrong...I am not defending Zimmerman or the Police. I do realize what is necessary for a fair trial and that it takes time. They could charge him now...hold a trial and watch Zimmerman walk away if they don't have all of the necessary items in order to convict. (Casey Anthony)

The general public really does not have the right to have all the evidence presented to them. Since when did prosecuters lay out all their evidence out in the media? They only have to disclose to the defense what they have. as it should be to protect the rights and safety of all involved in the case. If the court is open to the public people can see it then or if a trial is covered by the media. Jurors would probably rather not have to be sequestered to keep form being inluenced by the media and the public. Witnesses aren't even allowed to be in the courtroom until it's time for them to testify.

One other item regarding the release of information...it isn't necessarily because the police wish to 'hide' anything, but that they and the prosecutors prefer to have all evidence necessary for a trial shown to a jury, not the public. After all, it will be a jury that convicts or acquits...not the public.

Culheath, as Cms5 pointed out, it's not seeing the tapes which will cause someone to be removed from the jury. It's seeing the tapes before the trail, allowing them to form an opinion that will cause them to be removed from the jury. People rarely ever see a tape on the news without forming an opinion regarding a case. When the tapes are presented, they're also accompanied by some analysis regarding the guilt or innocence of the person given by a commenter. The defense will have those jury members removed on the grounds that seeing the tape presented by a news outlet causes one to form an opinion regarding guilt or innocence BEFORE the trial. Allowing such jurors is grounds for a mistrial which usually favor the defendant as the prosecutor is more willing to offer a plea deal.

Also culheath, in order for justice to be seen by the public but still be fair to a defendant, it is seen after the evidence is collected and during the trial. If they decided to not charge Zimmerman, then they would release such evidence to show why they made such a decision. If they chose to charge him and a jury was selected, then they would release evidence as it's presented in the trial. Releasing such evidence before hand is very stupid because it only provides an opportunity to pollute a jury pool which often results in a mistrial or a plea deal.

People seem to think that showing the evidence and videotapes in public is somehow going to magically result in a conviction because they seem to believe that public opinion is what determines guilt or innocence as opposed to a jury.... This is not the case. This will more likely result in the trial being heavily delayed while they try to find a jury pool that hasn't seen the evidence beforehand. If the trial happens and there is no way to ensure that the jury was unbiased, a mistrial will result.

People are now trying to spin this about Zimmerman would not be able to get a fair trial, and who's fault is that, if they had arrested him as they should have in the first place this would not have turned into a Media circus would it, but because of the very poor handling look what happened, People need to think why there is an outcry and RACE keeps coming up if the outcome were reversed and Trayvon was the person alive he would have been charged even though Zimmerman was the one with the gun ..... That is why the people are outraged so is it about RACE, HELL YEA!

Sarah

Releasing the tapes could effect the investigation? What investigation? Zimmerman was already given the SBYG get out of jail free card - case closed.

Many people are released only to be arrested later. It happens quite a bit in cases that require evidence gathering. Some cases take years to go to trial. Case closed? No, not really. Case resolved the way the public wants? No. Justice isn't an instant process. Defendants have a multitude of rights to call upon. Remember, our judicial system focuses on the rights of a defendant...not the victim.

Zimmerman did not look at all like he'd been in a fight.

Zimmerman, no bruising, no black eyes, no bloody nose, no blood on his clothes. Does not at all look like he has been in any type of "fight for his life" as his judge-father would claim. Acts perfectly calm, like he has everything in control. Of course, the fix was in.

And the next day doesn't count as far as anything medical. Only immediate medical examination at a hospital counts. He could easily have given himself a broken nose overnight so he would have some type of excuse for killing this innocent teen.

Zimmerman story is a bunch of lies.

.

One thing you guys and gals keep forgetting is that since no charges have been filed against Zimmeraman, that there is NO CASE to begin with, so releasing the tapes is completely acceptable, as there is no trial date or hearing on the books...

Rick.... this is not a matter of someone trying to spin this. This is a simple fact. Releasing evidence before a trial causes severe problems. The public outrage was important to make sure that there was an investigation, it was important to make sure that the public officials knew that whatever decision they made regarding charges was going to be scrutinized like crazy, and it was important for making sure there is pressure to not ignore a possible crime. What public pressure IS NOT good for is when it starts demanding the evidence before a trial as this negatively effects any possible convictions. It doesn't really matter who is to blame for the public outrage. Individuals that want to see a conviction now have a reduced chance to see such a conviction because of the jury pollution that will result from early release of evidence/tapes. The sad part is, people that want a conviction to be the end result of this investigation actually think it's a win that the evidence was released to the public. Instead, the chances of a conviction that is upheld upon appeal have now been reduced. This is what happens when people think with their emotions instead of their brain.

Thank you Dr. UnitedStates1776 for your expert opinion. I am certain the prosecution will be in touch to call you as a witness.

For my opine. No, it is not acceptable to release such tapes because an investigation occurs before charges are filed. Whether or not to charge Zimmerman with a crime will be done after the investigation is concluded and they determine they have enough evidence for charges, not before. Now that the tapes have been released, if they decide to charge him with a crime, a defense attorney will have a field day showing how the jury is/was biased against Zimmerman and why there should be a mistrial or overturning a conviction.

My god I am amazed at the lack of understanding of how investigations work or how the Judicial system functions.... For heaven's sake people, turn off dancing with the stars, and read a law book.

So suddenly the Mayor decides to take the high-road? And at the expense of integrity of the investigation? I see little reasoning to believe the mayor innocent in the entire ordeal from the get-go., but I assume it is possible. For some reason my brain keeps telling me that he is only doing this as a means of preserving himself & his campaign. Hopefully I am wrong.

Releasing the tapes prior to trial, along with the other shenanigans from all parties involved is going to require extreme measures to be taken in order to have a fair and impartial trial.

Despite majority public views, a fair trial is still required for justice to be properly served. And despite what some may desire, the process may take considerable time before an actual trial date may begin. Hopefully, the public will be patient and realize that all cases take time to reach the courtroom. Jury selection alone is going to be a lengthy affair, and will likely occur in a different city altogether.

Another problem will surely arise while waiting for the system. Realistically, if someone is completely impartial in the case, the "community" will consider them racists. Imagine the outrage, if the jury actually finds him innocent on basis of the evidence.

Zimmerman has little chances of fairness, or at receiving a fair trial. Even if he is innocent, the community will still likely remain in a state of unrest, and his life would probably be spent in protective custody.

Just having heard the tape would not pollute the jury. It is actual evidence and only a portion of the evidence. Unless a person states that they have made their determination of guilt or innocence based on the tapes and are allowed to serve on the jury there is no nullification of the jury and no reason for an appeal. There are many questions that they ask you that you might think might have you thrown off the jury. It is when those answers show that you are no longer objective is when you are removed from the jury. A person can have heard the tape and still be objective. I for one have not made a decision but I do know that there is too much that does not make sense for this to not have gone to at least the grand jury. To let someone go for something that is this big without a full scale investigation makes me feel like there is something shady going on.

It's pretty clear that none of those screaming about "evidence released would taint a jury cause jury members to be released" have never actually sat on a jury. Just about every single homicide there is you have some homicide detective talking to the media discussing the "case". I actually sat on the jury of a murder case. That case was all over the newspapers. Homicide was talking left and right and giving the media "evidence". Did anyone every ask the jury or the jury pool about seeing any of this? NO. Get off the OMG everything is always done in secret kick. It is not. how long did we hear stuff about Casey Anthony? Gee, she was tried where? FLORIDA. And OJ, wait for it...... he was tried in LA. OMG THIS NEVER HAPPENS. Spare me.

Nice post PrivateMilitaryContractor.

It isn't unusual for someone who does not immediately jump into the frenzy to gain the lable of racist. That's unfortunate.

Some of us are not seeing the color of Trayvon's or Zimmerman's skin...we're not buying into the media spin. This is a tragedy and Florida's Stand Your Ground Statute is frightening. While I believe BOTH Trayvon's and Zimmerman's actions fall within that statute...one young man is dead. Where is the line drawn in the statute?

I really hate to think that there could be more cases similar to this because of that statute.

And FY Idoggy dear, maybe it's you who should turn off dancing with the stars and read a law book. mis-trials are not declared BEFORE a trial begins and in order to "overturn" a conviction, there has to be a CONVICTION first, and of course in order to get a conviction, you have to have a trial. Epic fail!

So, after all the hyperbole, this is what we are left with - there are police reports that document injury to Zimmerman. There are 911 tapes that do not specifically repudiate what Zimmerman said, and may support his version. Any criminal investigation takes time, it does not happen in one week, or even in one month. Reports indicate this will go to a grand jury. Grand juries do not convict, they merely review the evidence to determine if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial. Grand juries are not always in session, they usually meet 2-3 times a year to review one or more cases that the prosecutor needs confirmation on. IF the grand jury thinks there is sufficient evidence to take it to trial, it goes. If the grand jury thinks the evidence is too shaky, they will not send it to trial, and it will be over. If it goes to trial, it could take a year or more before the trial even begins. In the trial, the jury must find "Beyond any reasonable doubt" that Zimmerman's story is not true. Zimmerman has to prove nothing. The State must prove his guilt. If the state cannot prove "beyond any reasonable doubt," Zimmerman goes free. "Beyond any reasonable doubt" is a very high standard. It is designed to keep innocent people from going to jail. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. Finally REGARDLESS of the result, there will be riots in the street. A certain element of American society will riot and plunder and burn neighborhoods if Zimmerman is convicted for killing a black kid, and the exact same element will riot if Zimmerman is not convicted. Those are the facts we must consider and be prepared for.

I don't agree with this mentality that Zimmerman cannot receive a fair trial. People have with the same amount of publicity in past cases. O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony, the LAPD, or the group of black youths that beat that trucker during the LA riots. It can absolutely happen!

The differences between then, and now are night and day, regarding the OJ trial. Social media moves at the speed of light, and as such so do the opinions of millions of people.

Even youtube, is riddled with videos containing people's opinions on various subject matters. Social media has given a voice to everyone, including those who are simply trying to get into the spotlight for their 15 minutes of fame.

This is both good and bad. The good is that is gives everyone a voice to be heard. The bad is also that it gives everyone a voice to be heard. Too many opinions floating around create complete chaos, and with the chaos comes the predators of society preying on victims in their times of weakness. And in this weakness, and with the emotions involved; knee-jerk reactions are common place.

One utterance of the word "racist" , is all it takes to get the ball rolling. And once it starts in with the haters, it is hard to stop. Everybody starts seeing a "racist" under every bush, and behind every tree. There is no doubt that racism is alive and well in America, and despite its meaning "racism" does not discriminate because it is found in every cultural group represented in America.

Was Zimmerman acting as a racist? I am not him, nor have I personally heard his 911 call. I understand the implications that labeling someone a "racist" involves, and I choose to not yield it until it is proven fact. I believe every American, regardless of race, owes it to one-another to with-hold judgement until such a time that it is appropriate. Anything less, is irresponsible behavior.

Despite the media's attempt to promote discourse among the ranks, I sincerely hope that cooler heads prevail.

There will never be a trial, there is no evidence to even file a charge against Zimmerman.

Shellie, perhaps you should re-read all of the posts above. They are under the assumption that there is a trial and that a conviction occurs. You should re-read post 4.2. I'm not going to restate every assumption in each post I make because that would be stupid.

Butch, the point is not whether a fair trial can happen or not, it's whether it's likely to happen, how much more difficult it would be for it to happen now that these things are being released, and the likelihood of a mistrial or an appeal should a conviction result and it's determined that the jury pool was tainted. Releasing such video provides no benefit towards a conviction and only satisfies the public's curiosity regarding the case. It does however provide a chance that a mistrial would be declared or an appeal would result in a new trial should the first one result in a conviction. This is the problem with releasing evidence like this to the public before an investigation is even concluded. All it does is get the public off of the backs of those in charge of the investigation. It does nothing to improve chances of a conviction and if anything reduces the chances of a conviction that sticks after appeal.

Zimmerman did not look at all like he'd been in a fight.

Zimmerman, no bruising, no black eyes, no bloody nose, no blood on his clothes. Does not at all look like he has been in any type of "fight for his life" as his judge-father would claim. Acts perfectly calm, like he has everything in control. Of course, the fix was in.

And the next day doesn't count as far as anything medical. Only immediate medical examination at a hospital counts. He could easily have given himself a broken nose overnight so he would have some type of excuse for killing this innocent teen.

Zimmerman story is a bunch of lies.

.

If I punch you in the face and you don't bleed, I guess it didn't happen.

kat nova, that's a pretty weak punch then. I'll bet if I punch you in the nose you'll bleed. but anyways, a simple xray will reveal a lot after the fact. videos really can't show much if he's been cleaned up. But it also doesn't support the reports that zimmer's face got grounded onto cement either. and 4 hours is plenty of time for any black eyes to start showing.

Actually it was reported that the video was at 7:51 PM.

shellie, my bad then. I read a report that said 4 hours later. if it was only an hour later. it may make a difference. but an xray would show all his scars. even the broken nose.

The bold part seems pretty cut and dried.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012,

s. 776.013, or s. 776.031

is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer,

as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement

officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) 

The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Even if Zimmerman started the fight( I do not think he did),once he was getting his @ss kicked and he could not get up to escape and thought in his mind he was going to suffer great bodily harm, he could legally kill the man he attacked, Its the law.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues

The latest from Sanford,Fl. have said that no more evidence will be released to the public. Any reporters that approach her staff would be detained, [later rescinded]. but the released of any more evidence, such as the autopsy report, voice analysis,etc,will not be introduced to the public. And if you all recall, in the anthony case, she sat in jail for over a year and the closer to trial, all kinds of video,s were shown on t.v.of her in jail talking to her parents at the jail, all kinds of private citizens, going to her parents home, threatening them, reporters hounding them, so do not say that black folks are the only one who rally, protest, etc., about how they feel!!!!!!!!!!!!

Devils advocate here: Has anybody even considered that maybe Trayvon was the racist, and may have caused the entire incident through his own possible racism ?

Have you ever considered the possibility that there is a teapot filled with Captain Crunch in orbit around Mars?

I'm pretty sure it's not remotely possible for him to have caused the entire incident - seeing that he was walking back home from a 7-11 (passive) and Zimmerman was the armed adult on 'watch' (active) who by a series of poor judgements created the situation.

Let me hash it out for you:
Poor Judgements
1) Zimmerman, armed himself while on neighborhood watch (there is good reason this is against official policy, his not being 'official' only amplifies the irresponsibility of his choice - it does not absolve him)
2) Zimmerman made several wrong assumptions about Trayvon "up to no good, on drugs, shady, etc" those assumptions led to prejudice before even making any contact.
3) Zimmerman conspicuously follows Trayvon without identifying himself or being in an identifiable vehicle (ie neighborhood watch magnet on the door, etc)
4) Zimmerman exits his vehicle and pursues the teenager without identifying himself, also against official policy. This extremely poor decision coupled with his preconceived prejudice against the teenager creates a deadly situtation in which he puts Trayvon smack dab into the middle of it.

At this time, Trayvon is still 100% innocent of any wrongdoing. It was a series of Zimmerman's downright irresponsible decisions as an ADULT that set the ball rolling.

sonar guy

Zimmerman doesn't stand a chance.

Jackson and Sharpton are media whores blowing this case out of proportion as they usually do. hey have cost human lives with their silent signals for people to riot and kill when the justice system does not go the way they "demand".

Justice shouldnt be subjective genius but in this country... it is. The probability that you will be caught doing something illegal, convicted and see jail time is directly related to the color of your skin.

@shuklak, LOL....

It's really getting sickening how people are devolving to the lowest of LOW, trying to defend Zimmerman...

Making up FAKE twitter accounts, and FB accounts, and filling them with FAKE CRAP, trying to make Trayvon into a gangsta, drug dealing thug....it's SO TRANSPARENT, yet so many fools are "buying" it.

Now, Trayvon must have been the "racist" GOOD GOD, what is wrong with you people?? Let's use the actual facts to debate theory, not made up stuff!

al and jessie, spike cant accomplish anything news worthy (except illegitimate children) on their own accords so they need an incident like this to let the sewage flow form their pieholes. And then they want to be called Reverend, excuse me time to flush!

sonar guy

I am sure the mostly black jury, with it's tolken oriental, and a couple of white girls that have abandoned their race will find this Hispanic man guilty.

Boy oh boy...No racism there...uh uh.

Dude, that sort of goose stepping rhetoric is so last century.

By the by, what is a "tolken oriental"...is it a character? Something from Lord of the Rings perhaps?

Sonar guy: Wow I guess you really are the sonar guy - able to pick up all the "silent signals" for people to riot and kill. Amazing!!

Shuklack

Have you ever considered the possibility that there is a teapot filled with Captain Crunch in orbit around Mars?

Have you ever seen a youth that has grown quite tall and feels bigger and tougher than he has ever been, because he is. Young men under age 24 have a reputation for violence. They come to full size, and believe they are invincible.

How do you know he wasn't feeling kind of tough that night ? Maybe Zimmerman was being given the "Evil Eye" and Zimmerman not look away. Maybe Trayvon thought he was being given the "Evil eye" when that is just a misinterpretation of the look on Georges face.

To assume Trayvon was totally innocent is kind of ridiculous. There was a confrontation, and it takes two to tangle.

The idea that George just walked up to a totally innocent person and blew him away is actually quite absurd. Few people just wake up and think: " today I want to kill somebody".

People in general do not want to do bad things, but sometimes bad things happen.

This videotape proves nothing, it is too grainy, and after George was cleaned up. Hey man, I took 14 punches to the face in a fight once ( but won, broke his jaw and leg ), I had no bruising whatsoever.

Thinking that Trayvon was being a sweet little angle that night does not make much sense. He did something wrong.

Everybody should take note that there are so many disagreements on this case, not only from the comments but the city of Sanford. Do you really think a jury of 12 will be able to decide this matter? Remember it only takes one to hang a jury. The four "witnesses" of which only one actually saw the incident can't agree on who was yelling help. By the way the other three would only be able to say they heard the yell not who said it because they are just guessing. Because of public pressure this is going to be a long drawn out ordeal for everyone involved, the news will splash it everywhere and interview any moron with a story, if there isn't anymore evidence than has been released the court will never be able to convict. There will be hard feelings on all sides and this case will go right alongside of OJ and Casey Anthony.

Mike-416

The probability that you will be caught doing something illegal, convicted and see jail time is directly related to the color of your skin.

Mike, I am mostly white. I was never arrested until I was almost 40 for anything. Guess what ? I went to jail for 90 days. It was for assault and battery. The person fell off a porch when attacking me, I stepped aside and he hit the cement. I did not even touch him.

Now, what did you say about the color of skin ?

What's the difference between a Sonar guy and a babbling idiot? Usually. a babbling idiot just babbles and a Sonar guy babbles and listens for his sounds to come back, Your receiver is broke on all frequencies.

How could the person being stalked be the racist when it was a fact that Zimmerman was the one looking for something happening as the neighborhood watch and found Trayvon, minding his own business walking home from the store? That was the criteria for being suspicious.

Lets take it to another layer depth, would Trayvon have attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman would have listened to the Police on the 911 and stayed in his freaking car? PROBABLY NOT!!

Blacks do not hate Hispanics. There are not many DNA differences between most of them. Just the difference in where they were born, with the exception on some, not all, Mexicans. (And I'm Black and do not hate Hispanics, specifically)

As the information is unfolding to the public, I will agree, the public is now in a position to determine the fate of Zimmerman. Innocent until proven guilty is the way we are supposed to work in this country. However in a time when this kind of racially motivated injustice is part of this country's present instead of it's past, there will be people that will scream out because the LAWS are not supposed to support this kind of actions. Zimmerman should have been charged with the murder, detained, tried, and then if found not guilty, released. It didn't happen that way. If it did, there would be another argument, but not one of social injustice regarding to race or privilege. It would be an argument pertaining to the justice system. There are many books written by distinguished people, including judges and lawyers that know how the judicial system works intricately. That argument is already on the books and is currently being addressed, albeit quite slowly.

Had you had these comments 70 years ago, I'm sure that there would be a bit more support, because the laws were different.

Regarding certain individuals being media whores. Well I can't disagree, however if you take your head out of your CHT tank, you might find that usually they are standing up for issues on injustice, perceived or real. They obviously have something to say, and have some knowledge about the subjects to back them up. There are not just Blacks standing up for the justice of Trayvon Martin, There are many whites, that have not turned away from their race, standing up for justice. "We are created equal.. with the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." in this country. Not because you happened to have been born white. Because you are an American.

Zimmerman had no right to approach Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman disobeyed police orders to stop the pursuit. Zimmerman, as a member of the Neighborhood Watch is NOT supposed to carry a firearm while on duty, in accordance with the policies of the National Neighborhood Watch Association. Having the murder weapon in his possession, Zimmerman should have been detained, question and charged with Murder, and the police should have allowed the legal process to take place. These issues are in question.

Sonar Guy, Are you a Racist? You think after any of the evidence presented to the public, that there are no questions? Suppose Treyvon was YOUR family member and this occurred. How would you feel. What would you do?

Lord of the Rings!

LOL

Think2x,

Excellent post. Thanks.

Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon, but not because he was full of muscle. He's looks like a typical middle-aged, overweight, out-of-shape American male. Trayvon was taller, healthy young man who played football on his high school team. In my mind, no way Zimmerman can chase down Trayvon.

@Sonar

Thinking that Trayvon was being a sweet little angle that night does not make much sense. He did something wrong.

and tell me wise one... what wrong did he do besides become confronted and murdered on the way home?

Since you like to create scenarios... I suspect that you are simply the kind of uneducated bigot that feels a black male is always guilty. That they are never intelligent or good; even if he loses his life, although minding his business, passive, un-armed and innocent.

If you took a minute to reflect on why there is anger over this particular murder, you would understand why this one is so compelling. Murders happen everyday but this type of murder has a deep history in America; particularly, the South. This is the 21st Century. This type of systemic and villanous behavior must be eradicated.

The alarming precedent perpetuated and set here is that anyone can call the police on any black male walking down any street. Anonymously state that he looks suspicious, pursue confront that person and kill. All with not one shred of evidence, authority or incident.

In addition, it is morally shameful and reprehensible how Sanford Police are becoming more and more complicit in this murder. As if it's just one of many incidents and cover-up murder of a black male. It's a shame because America has a long and sinful past of purposely not bringing justice to the murderers of black males.

I keep hearing that Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty... then where is Trayvon's owed presumption of innocence? The lack of presumption that cost him his life.

Zimmerman wasn't a member of law enforcement or otherwise authorized to use lethal force. Watch groups and individuals are not designed for the strategic intent of murder. Yet, he purposely and skillfully twisted just enough access to position and law, most likely via his father, to set up a scenario and become the alleged victim. A victim despite his culpable and admitted aggression of shooting a teenager.

We have yet to hear or be informed of the crime Trayvon committed other than Zimmerman's perception of a suspicious young black male. No crime was committed. Clearly, at this juncture, the scenario was aggravated by Zimmerman until there was a confrontation that resulted in murder.

Then to add more dust to your shade on Trayvon, I find it ironic that you use the word "lynch mob" when defending Zimmerman, all-the-while not giving credence or coherent understanding of the true meaning and origin of the phrase.

Black males know the origin and true meaning of "lynch mob". Perhaps you would do well to educate yourself. There are plenty of graphic illustrations on the web exclusively involving black males.

Sonar

Hey man, I took 14 punches to the face in a fight once ( but won, broke his jaw and leg ), I had no bruising whatsoever.

Unless those punches were from a 12 year old very small girl, you are full of Shi#... well we know that anyway, but 14 punches and not a bruise.... BS!

"Mike, I am mostly white. I was never arrested until I was almost 40 for anything. Guess what ? I went to jail for 90 days. It was for assault and battery. The person fell off a porch when attacking me, I stepped aside and he hit the cement. I did not even touch him."

hahahaha, sonar you are such a moron. You take the cake for being the dumbest person ever for going to jail for something you didn't do.

Today sonar says he took 14 punches to his FACE. Yesterday he said he was hit in the HEAD 14 times. By tomorrow all 14 punches will be to his nose. He's taking the Zimmerman method of telling a story, change it every day.

Well well sonar, that's quite a different story indeed. let's take a look at what you said n the matter just yesterday.

sonar guy

For all you doubters out there about Zimmermans condition. I was accosted once an punched 14 times in the head. I did not want to hurt him because he was a 19 year old kid. I kept telling him to stop. I told him to go head and punch me if it made him feel better.

I finally had enough, and began punching back. I punched him 5 times. I broke his jaw, and he fractured his leg when he fell down.

I had no marks whatsoever from his punches ( and they were very hard ones). I was arrested for assault and battery.

My point is this, things are not always what they seem to be. I believe Zimmerman.

Of course you believe Zimmerman. You lie just like he does.

I think it's pretty obvious by the consensus here that Sonar Guy needs to just shut the f*** up!

sonar guy,

Judging by the post that Shellie reposted, do you mean to say that Zimmerman was taking a bunch of pussy punches then felt the need to use his gun? That would not make it self-defense.

Butch,

I think I heard that Trayvon Martin was on the high school football team. Now, I am not sure how that would relate to "pussy punches", but perhaps you are off-target.

I'll tell you what, I wish whoever came up with these older and newer tabs had them crammed.

Rick, was the Dept. of Justice asked to investigate?

Rick, and that justifies Zimmerman's actions how?

What about the white couple that was visiting Florida from Europe and they were killed by a black man

You mean the 17 year old who was just sentenced to life in prison (no death penalty in FL for minors)? The DOJ didn't get involved in that case because they didn't need to. Probably not the best example you could have used to make your point.

If you're talking about the Shawn Tyson affair, the DOJ wasn't needed, as the Sarasota Pd and SCSO did a thorough investigation and caught the perp. The trial was over yesterday, and Shawn was sentenced to 2 life terms for 1st degree murder.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, why? what does one have to do with the other?

Students killed in Mississippi recently? Were is al,jessie,spike speaking out on that one also.

i think what he is asking is this, why so much media coverage when a "white" man is accused of killing a "black" man? yet when a "black" man kills a "white" man or a "black" man kills another "black" man you hear nothing but crickets??? and since when was zimmerman "white" anyways..??

roc, have you started a petition for the students?

Pointing out the double standards set by some.

Not a double standard!

You are comparing a case that involved an arrest and conviction to one that was swept under the carpet....

How can you compare the two?

In the case of the tourist here in Florida, the black guy was arrested and is awaiting trial. He's going down.

Jo-An.....I'm thinking the answer to your question in 7.5 probably has something to do with some people keeping score. They can't tell who's winning without some kind of a way to verify it. It clearly isn't a case of seeking the truth of the matter and applying conditions to the truth and seeing if wrong was done.

roc1960 so where are you with your marches and protests. You're more than free to do such things. why are you waiting for jesse, al, and all the other idiots. the question is, if you are so concern, how come your not up and arms in mississippi going door to door? don't you think its kind of dumb to ask that question of people that you can't stand to do the work you want done?

Rick-3599365,

I don't know the details of that case, but I'm pretty sure that law enforcement went after the black suspect and if they caught him, they prosecuted him. Now if they had held him even after admitting to the killings then let him go, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of outrage.

Someone needs to inform the parents of Trayvon Martin that its never over. Perhaps this is a little taste of the power behind neighborhood watch and there Vigilante unit. Its funny we live in the same Country; however, we are so unaware of what has been going on. In the area I live in there are many dope dealers that are loser relatives from law enforcement and neighborhood watch is targeting the users due to someone spreading rumors about the user molesting kids or something that would inflame a situation. The whole program needs to be scrapped. These are Very Very expensive programs and Big $?$?$? , if you are not aware, wants all the money to buy more loyalist. Please tell the martin family its never over, Big $?$?$? will use the churches, relatives or whatever means possible to come to there terms rather than what should be done. If neighborhood watch wins, there will be retaliation from this crew and there snitch program.

First off I cannot go somewhere to a March or protest for I have a job and I do not wish to lose it. I'm not insinuating anything about the ones who have protested etc. but I do not wish to forgo my employment. Seems the only time you see al, and jessie etc. is when there is an extreme amount of media involved. Then you have groups that put up $10,000 rewards. All these people are doing is creating further divide, let the authorities do their job! That goes from the local authorities to the federal. They have every right to speak out on a matter if the wish, but I cant see how they have any rights or authority to make demands of the authorities. They have gotten it to the point of mob mentality rules. First Off before I go any further Im Not racist say what you want but Im not and I know that. I could care less about the race involved here but isn't the standered of Innocent until prov-en Guilty apply here? Does not the accused have the right to due process. Let our system work, it may be flawed but overall I would say it works and is much better than the options used in other countries. If you listen to al,jessie, etc. etc. he is GUILTY, no questions asked and they are creating a mob mentality that is also convinced that he is guilty and done. Don't these people believe in our rights? Innocent till prov-en guilty, due process? My personal opinion is irregardless the bottom line is he has rights. Before everyone screams at me yes I believe Trayvon also has rights but it is NOT the publics job to try, convict and punish in a public forum. Things are so stirred up right now one does not know what is real and what isn't. Things are so stirred up right now and blood pressures are about to burst what would happen if he is not convicted? Things will brake into chaos,rioting, looting and more than liking more killings just because of ones race. Is that right? They way things are now if he is convicted the are many who will do the same for they feel he was innocent. Is that right? Once this becomes history al, jessie will just fade away until some other big media event. My question to them is why are they not organising marches and rallies to stop violence period. I live in Wis. but I due read the Chicago paper from time to time and its full of Shootings, Rape, Killings and the likes. Pick up a LA paper or other major city and its the same. With the recognition they have get to work there do something with the people there to stop the violence. Or is it because there would not be any nation wide media coverage? I don't give a crap about the race involved in these shootings and killings but they keep going. I used the students in the killings in Mississippi as an example for they were current and they brutality involved. there was not outcry it hardly made the news. I will end with part of the blame is the media, the more controversy and the more it can stir up I guess makes better news. Kind of a reflection on all of us as a society. A soldier in a foreign land gives his life to save that of a child, a child he does not even know and is of a totally different nationality but does not hesitate to give his life to save hers. A TRUE HERO! Could not the president, al or jessie at least asked the nation to give a moment of silence etc for a hero to be recognised? Or is this not news worthy to them. YOU DECIDE?

In regards to my post #7.17 I would like to ask of everyone please stop and give a moment of reflection and Honor. Please I ask that no matter what your beliefs or disbelief's are a moment of silence is in order. I THANK you all. Please I ask that you repost this elsewhere so others may do the same and again THANK YOU

There are a couple of seeds now, please post there if you would about this soldier

Got fired for an honesty issue, huh?