They keep reporting that Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle, but if you look at the area where Martin was killed, it's a long way from any street. People like to make it sound like Zimmerman was reaching for his car door when the altercation took place, but that's not the case. Whatever happened was in a back yard a long way from Zimmerman's vehicle.

No, it's not a long way.

@Dave - Correct!! If Martin had jumped Zimmerman while he was walking back to his car why was the crime scene so far from the road between two rows of houses?!?! If Martin had been slamming Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk, why was there no sign of any hair or blood on the sidewalk?!?! If Martin had been pounding on Zimmerman the way he claims then why did the funeral director report that there were no signs of any bruising, scraping, or injuries on Martin's knuckles?!?! If you hit someone with your bare fist, your hands are going to get messed up, there is no avoiding it!!! Nothing about any of the many variations of the story that Zimmerman has told about the events adds up when you take a critical look. I also do not put a lot of faith in many of these so-called witnesses because to them Zimmerman is one of them and Martin was an outsider - they will try and back up one of their own. Several witnesses have already backed off or modified their statements after being questioned about inconsistencies, admitting that they did not actually see what happened or how the confrontation went down. They were parroting what Zimmerman had told the occurred, filling it in with what they thought they heard of the struggle. A couple of people have claimed they heard Zimmerman screaming for help, which has no been debunked. I think a lot of these witnesses want this to just go away as much a Zimmerman and the Sanford police do. Luckily the FBI and Justice Department are not about to let that happen.

Watch Zimmerman contaminate jacket evidence. Police video in garage, view from front of squad car to back. After cop puts something in trunk and walks away cops take eyes off Zimmerman for split second. Zimmerman quickly takes one step back, leans against wall with his back, puts both feet forward and pushes on wall, may even scrape back of head, then cop say come, and Zimmerman lunges off wall forward leaving mark on back of jacket as if it came from sidewalk. Forensics will show paint from wall instead of concrete from alleged sidewalk. Takes 1 1/2 seconds to do this deliberate move by Zimmerman. No one has noticed this as Zimm is in rt side of video.

SOMEONE NOTIFY CORRECT AUTHORITIES< DON"T LET ZIMM GET AWAY WITH THIS CONTAMINATION>

Just as I thought. As my readers have known now for awhile. I have been waiting for this to continue to discredit Mr. Zimmermans "story". Because in fact that is ALL the "man" has. Is stories. ; ]

Further more then this is how awful and absolute those screams are. The LAST noise made by a BOY! Scared screaming for help that NEVER came. Help that was not on the way and is STILL to this day lacking in in timely nature. ;] How horrid this boys last moments must have been with EVIL and hate standing straight above him, on top of him for what?

Cheers

American law enforcement has 2 levels of operation. At the local level there is usually a reasonable level of professionalism, but sometimes they need to bring in the big boys. These forensic experts will find out if there is evidence of a scuffle where Zimmerman says there was. They will look for evidence on the knuckles and fingers of Trevon for tell tale signs of a fight.

If Zimmerman goes down, the first responder investigating police will go down for conspiracy to cover up. Not a good sign for the Sanford local police.

Well, we knew what was eventually going to happen.

Charles the Hammerhead

American law enforcement has 2 levels of operation. At the local level there is usually a reasonable level of professionalism, but sometimes they need to bring in the big boys. These forensic experts will find out if there is evidence of a scuffle where Zimmerman says there was. They will look for evidence on the knuckles and fingers of Trevon for tell tale signs of a fight.

Surprise! They never collected any evidence.

Rustyboy, Florida's law for concealed carry is a concealed "weapon" license. Look into it for yourself, and you might be surprised what you can carry concealed, legally, for self defense. Concealing a pit bull might be hard to do and probably wouldn't meet the statute.

Well, as an American Pitt Bull I find this interesting. I myself as my readers know have explored this same train of thought. If you beat someone to near death are you going to jail because you didn't shoot someone? Or is that standing your ground like a REAL man. ? ; ] Does the law pushed by the NRA which I like BTW, ONLY cover murders with firearms? Hmmm. Indeed. ; ]

Also how does the aggressor and FALSE report filing Mr. Zimmerman go from said aggressor to "victim" after he bit off more then he could chew? Pitt Bulls NEVER bite off more than they can chew. ; ]

Post Script;

Are hands registered as lethal weapons in ones pockets a concealed weapon.

Cheers

Mark my words:

A nefarious connection between individuals holding key positions of law enforcement in Florida and the Zimmerman family will be uncovered. Possibly through the investigation being conducted by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey, but more than likely through the FBI investigation.

Background:

Robert Zimmerman - Father of George Zimmerman and a retired Virginia State Supreme Court Judge

Norman Wolfinger - Florida State Attorney for Seminole County (retiring in October of this year)

Bill Lee - Chief of Police for the Sanford Police Department in Sanford, Florida

Probable Connection:

*Between Robert Zimmerman and Norman Wolfinger

Possible Connection (1):

Between Robert Zimmerman and Bill Lee

Possible Connection (2):

Between Robert Zimmerman, Norman Wolfinger and Bill Lee

* Why else would Norman Wolfinger on the night of the shooting make a special late night run to Sanford, FL to meet with the heads of the Sanford police department? After meeting with Chief of Police Bill Lee and Police Investigations Supervisor Captain Robert O'Connor (the current interim police chief) Wolfinger decides not to charge George Zimmerman due to lack of evidence. However, the very same day Chief Bill Lee "temporarily" stepped down Norman Wolfinger recused himself from the case, stating he did not want there to be even an appearance of a conflict of interest. This is of course after initially taking the case and making the decision not to prosecute Zimmerman. One has to wonder what could possibly cause an appearance of a conflict of interest between law enforcement agencies who typically work hand in hand enforcing the law and prosecuting criminals. An additional reason to recuse himself, after the fact would be upon learning of an affidavit filed by lead homicide detective, Chris Serino. An affidavit which states Chris Serino's written request for a warrant to arrest George Zimmerman on the charge of manslaughter was denied by the State Attorney and the Chief of Police in Sanford.

Possible Cause and Effect:

To repeat a phrase used by "family friend" Joe Oliver in an interview with Lawrence O'Donnell on The Last Word, I have a gut feeling. My gut feeling concerns dad Robert Zimmerman, the retired Virginia State Supreme Court Judge and his relationship with his son George. I don't think this is the first rodeo they've attended together. I think daddy has had extensive experience saving George's butt. He's probably been covering for George since he was old enough to get in the kind of trouble that usually involves the authorities.

Hey Jac-93whatever! That's old foolishness you're whining about; we're commenting now on this new forensic evidence proving Zimmerman was lying about the screaming for help being his- care to comment on the new evidence damning Zimmerman's case? Wanna guess whose screams for help were heard? Come on, comment on the evidence buddy, not your racist wishes.

Steve Snow- more wishful thinking? Don't you ever want to think right? So now it's suddenly not an issue of who attacked who since that question has scientifically been established as fact beyond a reasonable person's doubt? So instead of jumping on the side of justice now that you see Zimmerman can no longer hide the fact that he murdered Tayvon, you now hang your evil wishes that Zimmerman get away on this new foolishness that he not be bought to trial because the jury pool has been so contaminated by the proof against him presented in the media that the country cannot put on a fair trial? You are insane if you think broadcasting evidence of his guilt is gonna get this murderer off the hook.

Trayvon is 17yrs old long past puberty

Actually 17 isn't necessarily past puberty, and definitely not long past if at all, especially in boys. Every body is different and some kids hit puberty when they are 10, while others don't until they are 16, 17 or even 18 years old and puberty lasts about 4 years. I know several 17 year old boys who haven't developed their "man" voice yet.

I'm simply amazed. How is it with all the evidence staring you, the defenders of George Zimmerman in the face, that you continue to defend the man when his story is melting down faster than Chernobyl? He said he was in fight and that Trayvon attacked him. No evidence to support it. The video comes out from the police station and absolutely destroys this claim proving it to be a lie. Again, forensic audio analysis of the 911 tape proves that Zimmerman is not the person screaming, it is Trayvon. If it were Zimmerman, why did they screams abruptly stop after the gunshot? Blaming the media for reporting a story that has absolutely captivated the nation's interest is not a crime. It is news. I keep hearing about contamination of the jury pool. OJ Simpson was tried with less evidence than this and he was acquitted. The difference between this case and OJ is that OJ WAS ARRESTED AND CHARGED and put on trial. Zimmerman has yet to be arrested, let alone be charged and that needs to happen because by Florida statute he as to be within 170 something days or he can never be arrested or charged for this murder.

Very well said Ronin, but murder has no statute of limitations .... but once tried, if aquitted, double jepardy laws take over and they can never go there again.

you scream i scream...we all scream for ice cream...so obvious...ya'll ain't figured it out yet...

A steady scream at the top of your lungs is impossible when you're close to losing consciousness. If someone is bouncing your head off the pavement and raining down fists and you're close to being knocked out, the scream would be more of a groan or a whimper and it would have had a warbled effect from the head impacting the sidewalk.

Ronin-2231356

And don't you just know Lee, Wolfinger and O'Connor were pinning all of their best laid plans on that 170 days going by quietly. They just forgot a few things like we live in an age of instant communication to almost everywhere in the world. There are an incredible number of geeks and nerds (God love 'em) who live to pick apart videos and sound bites looking for anomalies. And with this technology also comes all of the cameras, watching all of us, in places all over the world, all of the time.

Correction:

And don't you just know Zimmerman, Lee, Wolfinger and O'Connor were pinning all of their best laid plans on that 170 days going by quietly.

The more suggestive evidence that comes up that reveals itself when examined, the more skepticism is generated as to the validity of Zimmerman's side of the story. It's possible that if Florida didn't have this seeming, 19th-century-style, "shoot first to stand-your-ground" concealed weapons, pro-NRA law, this story may have ended much less tragically. Almost a dozen policemen in different parts of the nation as well as more than a hundred innocent civilian lives were killed due to this law existing on the books.

Tigers the Man- please cut the crap. That old picture of young Tayvon's been old news, everybody knows it, and everbody knows he's 17, about 6 feet tall, 140 or so pounds already, and we're not fooled by it because we've all seen the newer pictures of him that are all over the place- so you are not the only one at this late date who knows to beware the innocent looking picture- which does not amount to a hill of beans, but you do go on and on about it against the media. God, for your sake, I hope MSNBC just burns the offensive picture for you in the public square, just to put an end to your asinine, pointless whining over it; because that picture is not going to convince anyone to put Zimmerman behind prison bars where the evidence is showing he belongs (there he'll soon see what real suspicious characters look like- and track them around to his hearts content- (I wonder if he'll report them to his warden?) -probably not because he won't have his gun in prison.

Tiger's the Man

The fact is though, that I understand it isn't reality and I can form an opinion on my own, just like many other people. Unfortunately the vast majority buys into it and peoples lives lie in the balance.

No, the fact is your reality is skewed by either a self-centered attitude of I am right and you are wrong, having prejudice, being racist, or just plain ignorance. When most of a nation with a population the size of America’s with all races represented believes George Zimmerman is a lying piece of pond scum and a murderer, you should put money on it because it’s true.

If you want to stand out by going against the flow that’s fine, believe what you want. But I have a sneaking suspicion you and people like you were bullies in school and probably still are. You should be embarrassed for yourself, because I know I’m embarrassed for you.

I want to know what would a updated picture of the teen prove? Both the victim and the murderer do not have any updated posted pictures. Do having a picture of what the victim looked like give a better reason for this man to of killed him? That is one of the reasons Zimmerman is in this mess now for the stereotypes and racial profiling.

We don't know what really happened because we all was not at the scene ourselves but this dose not look good in the favor of Zimmerman. He says self defense but it could been more to it from all that we have heard and seen so far. So a person stalks someone because HE FEELS the person may be up to something because of what he looks like and then follows him. Then get out of his vehicle and then follow the teen. For what again? The teen had not broken any laws. No break in or whatever. So being the followed teen what may been his feeling? I know if I'm followed by someone I know then cased down I would be scared myself and yell for help also. If I was grabbed also? I or anyone may fight back for there life. This raising attention now to the surrounding neighbors, Zimmerman got nervous and reacted with pulling his gun out and shot the teen during there scuffle. Heck he can say self defense he thought. Heck the Teen is black and is taller than me so it can be a believable excuse why I shot the teen Zimmerman may thought. He already had the stereotypes of what he think of some blacks.

He don't know his real reason really but we do know it is more to it than Zimmerman is saying. The Stand your Ground law sucks really. You have some people with bad attentions out there who can use this very law to do things to people and get away with it calling Wolf! You have some really insensitive people out there from what I've read from some post in some forums. All this uproar in not all about race but fairness in justice. That's the main reason for all this protesting from all types of people. Blacks,whites, and others are all upset about this as they can feel the parents of this matter. Sadly there are some people out there that make it look like a racial issues. Though I can understand some people thoughts of tension as racism is not dead. Hopefully racism in America and elsewhere well go away! We are all Gods Children are we not?

Legendary

Tiger's the Man

So what's the alternative, Tiger? The picture draws the image of a teenager... would one of a middle aged man with tatoos and gold teeth help your conscience a bit more?

I, for one. appreciate "the media" finally doing their job for a change. It's called investigative reporting. And we're all just as smart as you and can sort out fact from fiction.

The point that comes out loud and clear here is "Why in the hell hasn't this guy been arrested and trid for the killing of someone he staulked and shot?" Does the "Stand your ground law" make it automatically okay as long as you claim self defense?

Without the "kangaroo court of the media" in this case, it would have been swept under the rug and covered up forever. If this "kangaroo court" results in his arrest and at least a charge and a trial, that is enough... and, at this point, deserved.

what part of... 'over zealous heat pack'n neighbor hoody watch guy'...do some not understand...

I really don't care if this kid looks like "godzilla" and George is a 96 lb weakling - point of fact George was told to standby and he had his great equalizer in his holster - he went on the hunt - stalked godzilla and shot him- end of story

Look at the father - he is a martinet - viet war vet and did not allow his children to play with neighborhood children - he made this man and has been covering his butt ever since

You reap what you sow - how tragic - and the father has used his influence ever since

Point of fact George Zimmerman is guilty of stalking - lying - and killing an unarmed young man

Bosslimo said:

Surprise! They never collected any evidence.

Er, yes, they did. I'm surprised, with all the stuff going on around this case that there are still people out there who haven't read the (partial) police reports released from the first two officers at the scene.

Ofc Timothy Smith was the first officer on the scene, here is his report submitted 2/27/2012 at 3:29:

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir. in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees Lane. I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans. I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.

I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was the original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9 semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

Shortly after securing Zimmerman Ofc. Ricardo Ayala arrived on scene. I advised Ofc. Ayala that I had not made contact with the black male subject laying on the ground. I observed Ofc. Ayala make contact with the subject and attempt to get a response, but s met with negative results. Shortly after this other officers began to arrive on scene and along with SFD Rescue 38 who began to give aid to the subject lying on the ground.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.

The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.

Here's Officer Ricardo Ayala’s statement submitted 2/27/2012 2:28:

On 2/26 at approximately 1917 hours I was dispatch to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a complainant seeing a suspicious person in the area. While en route dispatch stated that they were receiving calls in reference to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to.

Ofc. T. Smith stated via radio that he was arriving in the area. Ofc. T. Smith later states that there was only one subject shot and he had one at gunpoint.

Upon arrival Ofc. T. Smith had a white male later identified as George Zimmerman, in custody. Zimmerman was also the original caller in reference to the suspicious person.

I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans, and white/red sneakers laying face-down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body. I attempted to get a response from the black male but was met with negative results. At that time Sgt. Raimondo arrived and attempted to get a pulse on the black male but none as found. At that time Sgt. Raimondo and I turned the black male over and began CPR. Sgt. Raimondo did breaths and I did chest compressions.

Sgt. S McCoy arrived on scene and relieved me continuing compressions. Sanford Fire Rescue arrived on scene and attempted to revive the subject but could not. Paramedic Brady pronounced the subject deceased at 1930 hours.

The scene was then secured with crime scene tape by Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wagner. Ofc. Robertson began a crime scene contamination log.

Lt. Taylor arrived on scene and notified dispatch to have Major Crimes respond to the scene. Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wgner were able to make contact with neighbors in the area. They were able to obtain statements from all witnesses on scene.

The scene was turned over to SPD Major Crimes.

Zimmerman's story is that he called 911 about a suspicious person, then per the dispatcher's instructions he stopped following and returned to his vehicle, at which point he says he was jumped from behind by Trayvon, punched hard enough to break his nose, had his head slammed into the sidewalk multiple times, at which point he pulled a gun and shot the teen.

Here are my problems with that version of the altercation:

1) The still shot from the police video shows no sign of these injuries. If his head had indeed been slammed into the sidewalk Sanford Rescue 38 would have taken him to the hospital for possible concussion--they did not, they cleared him to go to the police station.

2) The timing on Officer Ayala's report: he states that Dispatch first alerted the patrolling officers of a suspicious person complaint at 1917 hours (7:17 civilian time.)--that corroborated Officer Smith's story above and could also be independently verified by the 911 call tapes. Paramedic Brady declared Trayvon Martin dead at 1930 hours (7:30) So only thirteen minutes went by from the time the officers were first dispatched to the scene and the time a paramedic declared Trayvon dead. Is that really enough time for everything Zimmerman's version states to have happened, for the police to search the subdivision to find them in a grassy area between two buildings, for the officers to secure the crime scene, three different officers start trying CPR on Martin until the paramedics get there, the paramedics try to revive him and then declare him dead 13 minutes after officers first got the call rom dispatch?

3) If Zimmerman indeed shot the teen after being jumped while trying to reenter his vehicle, why is the crime scene in the middle of a grassy area between two residences identified in the report as 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Cir. and not by Zimmerman's vehicle? Did he shoot the boy, then drag the body to the grassy area? I think the cops would have noticed drag marks and blood, and I also think there wouldn't have been enough time for Zimmerman to have done so. The police report I quoted above says Trayvon is 6'00" and 160, and Zimmerman is listed as 5'09" and no weight is given, but I doubt Zimmerman would have been able to do this in the 13 minute window detailed in both officers reports since portions of that 13 minute time period are recorded by the 911 call.

Rickeroo:

When George Martin was asked to identify himself for the police he told them his name was Zimmerman, George Michael, W/M, 5'09", no weight given, no drivers license number given. He identified himself as White/Male.

Google martinpolicereport (dot) pdf. It's in there.

Zimmerman can be heard saying to the dispatcher on the 911 call, "These @!$%#s- they always get away."

Zimmerman took it upon himself to make sure that, this time, the guy wasn't going to get away.

Zimmerman clearly pursued an unarmed teenager who was doing nothing wrong. Even if Trayvon had attacked Zimmerman as he claims, a reasonable person would fight to defend himself if someone was coming after him with a gun the way Zimmerman was.

Now the entire country is in an uproar over this, when all the Sanford police had to do was handle the incident properly and without prejudice. The Sanford police department should not be surprised that they aren't respected or trusted in that community.

Zimmerman doesn't look white to me at all, just like Obama isn't white in the slightest.

Rickeroo... your ignorance and your prejudices are plainly showing. Both Zimmerman and Obama each have a Caucasian parent, Zimmerman's father and Obama's mother. You can call them anything you like but that doesn't change reality.

I cannot be the only person reading this to have taken medical courses. How is it that people can believe that Trayvon wasn't the one screaming because the voice was too high pitched? Male puberty can last up to a decade before it is finished. There are cases of 18 year olds going off to college and growing three or more inches in height, gaining muscle mass and enduring residual voice change. It is in no way unusual for a 17 year old's voice to crack when he is in fear or excited.

On another note, I don't give a pickled pigs foot as to color or ethnicity in any of this. A grown man with a wanna be cop complex shot and killed an innocent kid, period. This picture of Trayvon with gold teeth and whatever is not of Trayvon Martin who was shot, but another kid with the same name. Good Grief go read some more.

@Rob:

That Sean, is a bunch of BS. If you were unable to see two people and could only hear them talking you couldn't tell the age. You'd have a better chance by looking at their ear lobes. Nice try but...no.

If you can't distinguish between the voice of a teenager and a guy who is almost thirty, then you're pretty effing hard of hearing. Maybe you should consult an audiologist.

@Amanda:

1) The still shot from the police video shows no sign of these injuries. If his head had indeed been slammed into the sidewalk Sanford Rescue 38 would have taken him to the hospital for possible concussion--they did not, they cleared him to go to the police station.

Exactly. Not saying here that Martin didn't lash out at ZImmerman when confronted, but Zimmerman's injuries were GREATLY exaggerated. Played up. NO DOUBT.

So you are assuming that the Sanford police department are so prejudice against blacks, that they will cover up any evidence that suppresses Zimmerman's story? ...even at the expense of a Rodney King type riot that is sure to come if Zimmerman is set free? I find it unlikely.

Zimmerman is already damned for the rest of his life, no matter what happens...no matter what did happen during the incident. He has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

I did not say that the Sanford police department was prejudiced against blacks. I'd be afraid of their version of justice no matter what race I was. I believe that they failed to handle the incident properly for several reasons, one of which was the influence of Zimmerman's father.

I don't shed any tears for Zimmerman. He brought it all on himself.

A difference in opinion is not ignorance hehe. You libs need to look that word up before casting it out as a weapon of argument. It makes you look extremely shallow.

Is it just my 'opinion' that Zimmerman has a Caucasian father and Obama's mother was white???

You need to look up the words 'opinion' and 'fact'. I don't have to tell anyone how your comment makes you look. You've done that all by yourself.

Can we start addressing O'bama as a white African American?

That wouldn't be accurate.

Saying Zimmerman is a White Hispanic is. Or saying someone is a Black Hispanic would be correct as well.

Latino would be the proper term overall though. However, that would peg Zimmerman as an immigrant to some of the ignorant and thereby hurting his ability to be seen as anything other than an illegal to many. Calling him a White Hispanic is actually a benefit to him.

It also feeds the White/ Black hate that so many like to feed off of. As we all know, like it or not, many in todays society still see White as better than Black. Once again, a plus for Zimmerman.

Rickeroo:

My husband is Polish/Lithuanian/Cherokee Native American. I am of Asian descent (don't know exactly because I was abandoned as an infant at an international orphanage, so I'm undocumented and 'stateless') because I have the almond eyes and black hair.

Our children are both boys. My oldest has my eyeshape and my smooshed nose, but his blond hair, skin color, full cheeks and facial shape is all his father's. And he's a Polack.

My youngest has my skin color, but he has my husband's mother's red hair and my husband's father's cleft chin.

The school designated them white. The first time they saw me they thought I was a nanny. Even after I told them I was actually their birth mother they still classify both children as white.

starsailing.............that jacket will never be put in evidence or tested, because Zimmerman was never arrested, therefore he took the jacket with him. I doubt that his lawyer will voluntarily submit the jacket. It may already have been destroyed. One of the major issues of this incident is that when the police made a decision not to arrest Zimmerman, they also made a decision not to collect any evidence or to take mug shots, get medical people involved and get evidence from the paramedics, etc. The decision of the Sanford PD not to investigate this case and not to collect any evidence is what has brought it to national attention. This is not just about the case of Zimmerman shooting Martin, it is about a police department that condoned the shooting, and the reason is quite obvious.

USA/Canuk,

Are you really that ignorant to believe your are the only one with your name? There are 121 people in the US alone that share my name, including a Gold Medal Gymnastic winner from the Olympics. Unless your parents made your name up chances are you share it with someone else. Google it. Then go read a book.

@Charles the Hammerhead: Could he be saying "@!$%#ing codes?" Perhaps a gate? Unless he was from the Midwest, it doesn't sound like "coons" to me.

This reminds me of a fight I had way back in high school..another guy started some chit with me and got him down on the floor, I was on top and keep banging his head on the gym floor while I keep yelling ..help me help me.

Here Canuk, I Googled it for you.

Trayvon Martin-17 from Austin Texas

Tryvon Martin- 16 Chicago, Illinois

and that was from one try. How about trying people finder.. bet you'd find even more.

It is people like you that are to lazy to look past the easy part that makes it easy for criminals to get away with things like this.

Nevermind I did people search for you and there were too many results, anyone know Trayvon's middle name?

Kornfed......they did not have to "cover up" any evidence. They ( Sanford PD ) decided that a crime had not been committed and as a result they did not collect any evidence. No mug shots, no photos of injuries, no proper crime scene investigation. It is that decision by the Sanford PD, that there was no crime that says so much about the incident. Had Martin killed Zimmerman, I think most of us agree that there would have been an arrest and a crime investigation, even if he claimed self defense. The appearance to most people is that the Sanford PD made a decision based either on race or quite possibly based on family connections of Zimmerman, that is what is in question here. There should have been an arrest and a thorough investigation, there was not. In any case it is quite possible that any jury might have had "reasonable doubt" , but the Sanford PD decided that they, and not a jury could make that decision and that is at the heart of the problem here.

MSN, why don't you stop referring to Zimmerman as a 'White Hispanic'? Unless in fairness you refer to the president as a 'white black'. It's ridiculous.

Now that we have 2 experts that say the screams for help are not Zimmermans, I think it's time to bring Mr. Z in and charge him. The evidence isn't supporting all of Zimmerman's story. Let's let this all come out in a trial shall we?

the first thing that needs to be done is put gags on sharpton and jackson since the only thing they are both good for is using the race issue to further their own agendas and spread hate! they should not be given national coverage by the media.

the next thing is...NOBODY knows exactly what happened that night. this is a land of laws, not perfect but it has worked for a couple hundred years. have mistakes been made..YES...will more mistakes be made in the future..PROBABLY. until there is a better way we have to live within those laws, you know....innocent until proven guilty!

the media is as much at fault as anyone else by using years old pictures of BOTH martin and zim. they are providing a pulpit for anyone that wants to use it to spread hate and misinformation. sharpton and jackson starting with the no justice no peace and calls for civil disobedience do not help the issue but fan the flames!

wake up people..let the laws work.

Truth is forensics would give us the biggest part of the story, blood splatter, blow back, gun powder residue, defensive wounds, offensive wounds, etc. I've punched people before, always leaves a bruise on my knuckles, and as for Z's head wounds, if someone was on top beating his head into concrete, he should at least have had deep scrapes and bruises that would have required medical attention beyond that of an ambulance because they can't do MRI's or CT's to look for concussions. I want to know how close Z was to the kid's chest when he pulled the trigger, what did the kid's hands look like, that sort of thing. Stuff that should have been confiscated by the police even if they weren't going to press charges immediately, like Z's clothing. This was not handled well no matter how many times anyone tries to make excuses for it.

Cynic-537088

Google the satallite view of Retreat View, Sanford Florida. You will clearly see that there are two entrances to the community, with a clubhouse and mailbox kiosk at the main entrance. There is a walking path between the houses that lead to the back entrance. I presume this is where the murder took place. There are no gates with codes. What he says at 2:20 is clear.

I don't care if you like negros or whiteys or hate them. The law is the law and this murder deserves the full application of justice as it was written in our secular documents. His statement of disdain for the "phuquing coons" is evidence of a predisposition, and an emerging motive. I am wondering if this makes the case premeditated. How long must one have a premeditated thought before this is considered? Any legal consultants?

Why would a guy carrying a gun and hunting a person (obviously intending to shoot said person if he deems necessary) yell out for help? "Hey, someone come help me shoot this guy"? I don't think the Zimmerman-screamed-for-help story passes the logic smell test.

Emergency services told him to stand down. Even if he followed Trayvon, he did not need to engage.

Wild Bill::: I'd question "eye witnesses". It was dark and how could you tell who yelled. I think "eye witnesses" is a bunch of crap. And I would imagine that Trayvon would have more sense than to attack Zimmerman. How often do you find a little fish attacking a whale?

What kind of weapon would a bag of Skittles or a can of iced tea make against a whale.

I would surmise that George Rambo Zimmerman was just out to shoot anything. It's strange that they did testing for alcohol and drugs on the dead body but not on the live body-- the cops probably knew that Rambo was stoned or on drugs but "we can't do it cause his daddy and he are our buddies".

@ Wild Bill - So you would take the eyewitness account over scientific data? I wouldn't. Unless that eyewitness has total recall, where they can remember things "exactly" as they happened hours or even days after the fact, eyewitness accounts are rarely spot on. Even within minutes a person's perception of the events can change. In fact, less than 1% of 1% of 1% of the American population can totally recall an event hours afterwards exactly as it occurred. Even in the best of circumstances, our minds will play tricks on us when witnessing an event. When the event is tramatic, our minds may fail us even moreso.

Many are quick to believe Zimmerman is guilty, simply because of what they've been able to learn over the last few weeks. And yet there are also those who are quick to believe Zimmerman is innocent for those exact same reasons. Since none of us were actual witnesses to this event, none of us will ever know what truly happened and who might be at fault. The best we can do is to base our judgments on third hand knowledge, forensics, and scientific data. There are details we don't know and in all likelyhood never will. Just as there are those against Zimmerman passing judgment based on their personal feelings or bias, the opposite is just as true. True objectivity is a rare commodity in this day of "instant" information.

What people SHOULD be focused on is the death of a young man. What those on BOTH sides seem to be centering their judgements on is based on race, whether they are willing or capable of admitting it or not. Think of this event where both Zimmerman and Martin are members of your own race. Think of the event where Martin is someone close to you while Zimmerman is not. Then think about the event where Zimmerman is someone close to you while Martin is not. Unless you can look at all angles and possibilities in this case, making any type of judgment taints your objectivity.

Darth Frodo,

Maybe because George Zimmerman does not look black that they refer to him as a "white" hispanic. You do realize there are Black Hispanics living in the Dominican Republic on the island of Hispaniola? Hispanic is not a race, white is. That is why saying White/Black is ridiculous but Black Hispanic or White Hispanic is not.

some people above, including self-professed audio experts, don't seem to understand how the numbers on the audio tests work. a 48% match does not mean there is a 48% likelihood that it is Zimmerman on the tape. a 48% match in all probability is a ZERO percent likelihood that the sample is Zimmerman. any two random male samples will match at about 25-50%. just like over 90% of all human DNA is identical, you have to match the parts that are unique. if the expert is correct, and a known sample of Zimmerman's voice only matched 48% with the screams on the 911 tape, then it just isn't him. if you take a paternity test, and they say it's a 48% chance that it is your child, in all honesty, it is a ZERO percent chance it is your child, you just had a few similar markers.

lucas-940231

Why am I not surprised?

Yes,

Lucas, it is not surprising that on the 911 tapes, that the voice calling for "help" has been identified as not belonging to Zimmerman. This case is replete with so many common sense issues that nail Zimmerman as a predator. Our system should move forward, arrest this "man" and put him on trial for murder.

The audio expert better have a better sample of both audio tapes then what I've been able to find. I doubt if they had a sample of Trayvon's voice they would get more than a 48% match. As sikchimp points out, a 48% chance is about as close to a 0% match as you can get. Interesting that all along we've been led to believe that Zimmerman used a racist adjective in his 911 tape when he actually said buttholes. So, this is looking more and more like a night watchman who watches way too much crime drama on tv, following a kid who is reaching into his waistband area, imagining he has a gun. What happens from there is anyone's guess.

Hey MSN - when are you going to get a current picture of what Treyvon really looked reently? You know, with the gold teeth and everything.

The picture of Trayvon Martin is the one their family released. It may be that there are no current photos of his current appearance.

Do you have access to some image of him at the age of 17? Or are you just assuming he had "gold teeth and everything"?

This case is replete with so many common sense issues that nail Zimmerman as a predator.

I believe that is clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense.

Our system should move forward, arrest this "man" and put him on trial for murder.

Remember, this is Florida, the state where an over-reaching D.A. ended up bungling the Casey Anthony case and letting a murderer go free. This time, they need to charge the perpetrator with whatever charge will get him convicted and sent to prison. A murder charge might not stick in a place where a 'stand your ground' defense is within the interpretation of the law.

@ PDRWLSN- then why are you adding your 2 cents? a 48% match is statistically insignificant, meaning it is NOT him. YOU could match up to 60% with that scream, without it meaning anything. for a match to be considered likely, it has to be above 80%, and for it to be conclusive, the percentile has to exceed 90%. if his samples are accurate, and methods in accordance with accepted procedure, a 48% result is MORE than enough to legally exclude Zimmerman. which puts his whole story in doubt.

Who gave Kornfed the triple shot of espresso this morning...boy woke up angry...lol.

JD in SD makes a good post in regards to a plausible event of actions. With Zimmerman's back ground - he probably self inflicted his wounds. I remember racing around a mountain lake as a teen (at night) and going into a ditch - the first thing I told my friend was; start kicking over these skid marks (in gravel road)...just natural to cover your tracks.

These cases should all be funded by the Feds - people get away with crime because local police departments can't afford to spend its budget on researhing a crime scene.

This killing upsets me not because it was by a racist profiler but because it happened in a neighborhood that is suppose to be safe for it's residents. Here Martin had every right to be in the neighborhood, was minding his own business, not committing any crime, yet gunned down by a wannabe cop.

I don't care if Martin attacked Zimmerman as he claims, Zimmerman had no business even confronting him in the first place. He had no authority to do so and was advised to not pursue Martin but obviously did anyway against the advice of the 911 dispatcher. Otherwise the scene of the homicide would have been next to Zimmerman's vehicle instead of nearly a 100 yards away between two rows of houses. Those are the facts and the rest is speculation. Any Zimmerman claim of self defense by the stand your ground law was thrown away since Zimmerman did not stand his ground, instead pursued Martin. Now some have said he has the right to pursue but remember there were no crime committed so that argument does fly. As past cases have surfaced, a person has the right to pursue only if a crime has been committed against them. That's not the case here.

The point I'm making is that if Zimmerman wanted to be the neighborhood watch guy he could have stayed behind Martin far enough to avoid a confrontation yet keep an eye on where he was going. If Martin asked him what he was doing, Zimmerman could have explained who he was and what his concerns were. Most likely Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman's life would not be a living hell now. Now since Zimmerman took the aggressive route, he now must suffer the consciences of his stupidity and I really hope that other people learn from this so there will not be a repeat by someone else. But I'm not betting on it.

I am willing to wait until a trial for my final judgement.

As long as an investigation is done by the FBI, and not by some police force which has had trouble with racism in its recent past, like the locals. Particularly since the State of Florida seems indifferent about it, and namely because you have to be smoking fumes at this point if you can't see the problem here from ANYONE's reported news.

In other words, while Zimmerman may be innocent, if you are protesting too much at this point, maybe its the racist speaking.

Sanford depends on tourizm good luck unless you count protesters.

@sikchimp,.... if his samples are accurate, and methods in accordance with accepted procedure

Dude this is the problem, we can't take the findings to be accurate because we don't know if it was. When and if an official test is completed we should believe, and not untill. I will believe all accouts from an eyewitness till then.

Why does anyone believe what NBC is reporting. Someone at NBC altered the actual audio of the conversation between the dispatcher and Zimmerman putting Zimmerman in a bad light. NBC is investigating this because the real audio proves something totally different. I have lost my total trust to NBC.

Having Al Sharpton as an employee of NBC is bad enough and now this.

as for the voice analysis,..not very credible...since they were not able to compare clear samples of both individuals much less samples of thier screams....its an empirical fact the many adult males voices change pitch and tone when they are frightented, and conversly many teenage males have very low pitch voices depending on where they are in their hormonal develope ment...ive personally heard and have known teenage boys as young as 14 with very adult sounding voices (high school friends etc)...and i personally know adult men with very high pitched speaking voices..

then to those who question the timming of the events....all you need to do is count out 30 seconds...this will illustrate that 30 seconds seems like a short period of time, but when you count it out...its actually quite longer then you would initially think...you can do alot in just 30 seconds of time...you certainly can run up to someone and assult them till they are unconcious in less than 30 seconds.

the photos...blatent attemps to color the guilt or innocence of either party by choosing certain photos to air in the press is just plain dispicable on every possible level....if you must present photos,..the most recent photo should be presented...not one taken several years ago...both martin and zimmerman are being unfairly portayed and intentionally fuleling biases...shame on every news agency for pulling this crap.

this case not withstanding,...the circus witch hunt mentality is disengemnuous...al sharpton, jessie jackson the black panthers and ACLU never marched on my home town when several black teens were shot dead by men of thier same race....where's the out rage?...these crimes are not yet solved....accordiung to witnesses several young black men drove by the homes of these teens and gunned them down in an aparent gang related revenge killing...which the victims had not part in.....not a peep from al sharpton...no tears on camera for the girl who got shot in the head from a random bullet....shame on mr sharpton and his ilk.

to all those who are content to convict zimmermen without knowing all the facts....shame on you you blatent hypocrits....he maybe guilt,..or not....lets just allow the special investigators and the FBI to do thier job and shut your illinformed mouth before you polute the jury pool so much that they hold the trial in canada....dumb asses.

Judging voices based on a you tube clip? What kind of "Experts" are these, JJ and AS helpers? there is no way you can make a definitive analysis based on multiple degraded downloads. if they didnt use the first and ORIGINAL recording, then there in no way they have a true way of making any concrete findings. This is all a SHAM!, Just more Racist propaganda.

Can we stop with the incorrect assumptions that Zimmerman used a racial slur on the 911 tapes. The full, unedited tapes have been released and he clearly, and without doubt, uses a synonym for anuses, buttholes, and poopers. Kind of blows the whole racist angle out of the water. The DA was responsible for not pressing charges. Whether Zimmerman's father has that much pull at the State's DA office remains to be seen. Again, people want to blame the police for enforcing the law. Blame th politicians and Judicial Courts for not defining the law better.

classic msnbc bias -- TELL the complete facts, for once...not that it would make a bit of difference to the lynch mob.

You would like to have a recording of the same words by Zimmerman to compare to the scream on the tape. That is a valid comparison. Do not compare zimmerman's conversational voice and different words with with a scream and attempt to draw rigorous conclusions. In fact, you really need a tape of two voices making the same sounds, such as reading the same text. Bias much, msnbc?

I'll concede that not only is the jury still out but that it hasn't even been selected yet. I will also go so far as to say that Zimmerman is at this point innocent as he has not yet been convicted. But to everyone defending Zimmerman I would have to say if it were I that had previously been giving Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, I would just stop saying anything now because it is really starting to sound ridiculous.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but until a judge admits this into evidence it really doesnt mean anything, let the investigation play out, there are a lot of things we still dont know and wont know for quite a while.

One thing I do think is funny, the second "expert" used enhanced audio and human analysis, what the hell does that mean, he turned the volume up and listened to it?

Dont believe everything you hear at this point, a lot of it is going to turn out to be wrong.

Hal -- Think for yourself, and do not let others do it for you. Somebody puts the word "expert" in front of an opinion, and you stop thinking? Nice.
Better to analyze their method of analysis, and see if it is valid, and I have already indicated, it is questionable.

In fact, I will go further. I will take a NEW recording of somebody screaming. Then I will get 99 other people plus the screamer to talk normally, and record that. I will then give all 101 recordings to these experts, and ask the experts to pick to pick the screamer....LOL. Their chances are quite small, because the recordings are not of the same thing, and hence difficult to compare.
YAWN.

After being a baseball coach for my sons team, from ages 12-16, that screaming voice is that of a boy, and not that of an adult. I listened to both a thousands times and more, clearly not Zimmermans voice.

There is an excess of foolishness in the comments.

-If Trayvon was indeed a huge black man with gold teeth and tattoos, would that justify Zimmerman shooting and killing him, seemingly without reason?

-Theres no point on commenting about the lack of press with other shootings/cases....BECAUSE THESE PPL WERE ARRESTED. The issue with this case is that Zimmerman murdered someone and is walking around free (well, kindve)....Anybody could claim selfdefense....when the only other witness is dead....However, if the show was on the other foot, and Trayvon was the "self-defender" I could guarantee that his word wouldnt have been taken so easily.

-And the ignorance of the "one drop rule" that some of the commentators are hinting at...I wont get on that.

Without a comparison voice these experts are shooting through their hat. They need examples of both men's voices to rule out what was heard on the tape. The pot keeps being stirred but no decent defense attorney would allow only a one-sided comparison into court, and the 48% probabilty that it 'could' be Zimmerman also factors in. Sorry, this is not sufficient evidence to convict and, in any trial, the opposing side will present their experts. It generally comes down to whose expert is more credible to the jury. Now, in the court of the media, any 'evidence' is sufficient to sell papers and airtime, however, it becomes a tad more demanding when you get to court.

Here comes the lies. Of course they will look pretty stupid when this witness testifies. "A 13-year-old eye witness said he saw Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help and that was also when Martin reached for his gun. Police reports showed he was bleeding on his back and on the nose and believed his story enough to let him go free on the grounds that this was in self defense."

It was the Orlando Sentinel that orchestrated the entire testing, the SAME Orlando Sentinel, that JUST LAST WEEK, informed you ALL of the "head pounding" incident...Now you don't believe them? LOL..

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Also, NBC is now doing an internal investigation into allegations that the released 911 tapes were doctored by someone in their editing department.

The aired tapes had Zimmerman saying: "This guy is up to no good. He looks black."

The unedited tape sequence:

Zimmerman: "This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around and looking about."

Dispatcher: "OK and this guy -- is he black, white or hispanic?"

Zimmerman: "He looks black"

And this is why it is never a good idea to try someone in the media. Which broadcasting company has hired Sharpton to be a commentator? NBC.

This whole miscarriage of justice is starting to get on my nerves.

A man with a gun and a history of aggression is on the Neighborhood Watch. He sees a "suspicious person" and notifies the police. They say they will investigate, but tell him to stop following the person. He disregards these instructions, and pursues an unarmed minor. One who committed no crime, nor who has been proven to have intent to commit a crime. Man confronts and kills this unarmed, and thus far innocent, minor on a property other than his own. There is no evidence of a struggle as stated by the man, possibly indicating that he his trying to disguise facts <- generally not the actions of an innocent man. This is not about race or appearance. This is about a man with a gun hunting and killing a boy, without provocation.

Open, shut, premeditated murder. Why is this not clear to Floridian officials? Why is Zimmerman still walking free? Did he resurrect Johnnie Cochran?

An interesting point to make here is the author doesn't give a test figure for Trayvon's voice match yet draw the conclusion that it must be his. This whole trial by media and public opion is driving a wedge to divide us and spur racial hatred. My heart goes out to the Martin family.

mygirl,

sigh.....no, they aren't saying it is Trayvon, they are ONLY saying it is NOT zimmerass!

Even with POOR audio, they would expect OVER 90% match if it WAS zimmie.....

do some research!

Zimmie's whole story is disintegrating before our eyes, yet the defenders are still making stuff up!

Ver entertaining to watch...

About the voice Id: Sample of Zim range is not large enough to come to any good conclusion.

The small sample he did have gave him a 48% Like any statical results, pick the right sample and you can prove any thing.

"On Feb. 26, Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, had called 911 to report a "suspicious" person and followed Martin against the dispatcher's advice."

A White Hispanic? Does this make Obama a White Black??? Whites in this country are really being targeted.....Whites must be paid back for all the evil they did in the past.

The events of the evening are against Zimmerman and his story. First, Zimmerman was told by a dispatcher that he did not need to follow Martin after Zimmerman reported the boy was running away from him. The fact that there was an altercation shortly after that conversation indicates that Zimmerman did not heed the dispatcher's advice and continued to follow Martin. Furthermore, a girl to whom Martin was speaking on his cell phone as this was happening said Martin told her he was being followed by a strange man who accosted him on the street. When Martin asked the man why he was following him, Zimmerman did not identify himself except to demand that Martin explain what he was doing there. The girl reported the sound of pushing and shoving before the phone went dead.

So Zimmerman caught up to the boy against the advice of the police dispatcher, he did not identify himself as a neighborhood watch citizen, and he got into a pushing match with a frightened boy whom he wound up shooting to death. Never mind the racist remarks made by Zimmerman or the unfounded speculation that the boy was on drugs as he was walking home with nothing more than a pocketful of skittles. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy without clear justification.

As far as the prosecution of this case is concerned, the Stand Your Ground statute of Florida does not apply because Zimmerman opted to follow Martin, thus changing the nature of Zimmerman's defense. In fact, because it was Martin who was confronted by Zimmerman, many legal experts believe it would have been Travon who would be covered by the Stand Your Ground law, thereby taking away Zimmerman's immunity in a self-defense case.

Zimmerman will be facing serious charges soon, and it is well he should.

Jo An: You are then unaware of the NBC investigation into the doctored 911 tapes? They lied, they aired a newscast that left out crucial information in order to pursue an agenda, a racist agenda.

Now, I have dealt with you in the past and realize that facts are not your strong suit. I do know that you are not an audio forensics expert, I have a strong sense that you are not a criminal defense attorney or prosecutor. I doubt that you are involved in any form of law enforcement nor are you a student of law. I also doubt that you were there that night and are relying on inflammatory media stories.

It now comes out that a neighbor has stated that Zimmerman was indeed sporting bruising, lacerations and a swollen eye. You, in your rush to judgement, will disparage that information because it does not suit your narrative. It is rather typical of people to form opinions without all the facts being in evidence.

My main complaint with this entire story is the rush to judgement before all the facts are in. There is a definite agenda here and it isn't about seeking justice, if that were indeed the case then the folks like Sharpton would state that the authorities should be given time to complete the investigation. I also understand the demand to re-open the case, however, it should be re-opened for investigation rather than allowing the media and people of Sharpton's ilk to become the judge, jury and executioner. An intelligent person would understand this.

Charles the Hammerhead: Go to 1110 Retreat View Circle in Google Maps. Choose Street View. Note the gates and access terminals. The picture is not clear as to whether they are card or code readers.

I would assume that pedestrian entrances are also secure, especially in such a high-crime area (Sanford is a bit of a @!$%# hole these days).

I agree, on first blush it does sound like "coon" but after listening to it a few dozen times, I could swear there's a consonant farther forward in the palate. If it was "code" he could have been criticizing weak codes or his frustration with a code. Who knows. There's a lot of wind noise.

If it was "coon" I suspect he's going to pay dearly in the civil proceedings.

Agreed!Whites need to be payed back for consistently being preyed on and victimized by blacks.But wait.If that actually ever happened, it would be the tax dollars that would be making the payments.And who pays the majority of the taxes?Um, yeah....

It really doesn't really matter if Zimmerman is guilty or not. After all this crap about what the Panthers are going to do, Jackson and Sharpton sharing their pennys worth of BS. This is BS and I hope he at least gets somewhat of a fair trail. The court of democrap public opinion is already in. All you democraps out there hope someone like me don't sit on the jury. I will disappoint you so much.

.

The scream for help literally broke my heart. That poor boy was screaming with all he's got! I can't possibly imagine the pain Trayvon's mother must be feeling right now- hearing her boy screaming for help. RIP Trayvon.

They should ask what he was doing inside a gated community as well as all the other questions. Plus what is a (white hispanic)? This political correct bullsh*t has gone way to far.

My opinions and comments thus far:

1) The Zimmerman story simply has too many holes and omissions to be credible. While this is often the situation in such cases there is simply no forensic evidence to back up Z's claims or fill in the gaps.

2) You can bad mouth Martin all you want. But you cannot escape the fact that he belonged there since he was a resident of the community by virtue of living with his father, a resident. He was unarmed and carrying a paper bag. He had a hoodie on and up in the rain. He was wearing white sneakers. There is simply no justification in any of that for Z's actions, leading up to and including the shooting.

3) If you go to Google Earth and locate the subdivision and follow along with the 911 call on the map, you will see something very different. What you will see is a man who singles out a "n****r" and a "coon" according to the 911 tapes and then gets out of his car and stalks him against the explicit instructions of the 911 officer. (And for the idiots: 911 officers are deputized officers or are under the supervision of a deputized officer so it was a direct and explicit instruction from a law enforcement officer.) He followed the kid for a long while as the kid tried to walk fast and evade him. Then the kid was cornered in a cul-de-sac and turned to confront Z. He never reached him. At some point he turned and ran --- my assumption is that Z showed his weapon. Z chased the kid and finally caught him. There probably was a struggle oif some sort, but it was one-sided --- an armed 255-lb (the 240 was 5 years ago) and a 140-lb kid (coroner's report.)

4) I consider the overt use of the n-word and "coon" as explicit proof of racism. Period. Z is a racist and knew he was talking to fellow racists at the SPD.

5) At least three witnesses heard Martin crying for help before the shots. The police thoughtfully "corrected" their reports to say that it was Z calling for help. These people did not recant or change their story. The police assumed that they were just mistaken in what they heard and put words in their mouth.

6) The Neighborhood Watch thing is very very strange. Normally in a gated community, there are two lists floating around. One is of the names of the residents and their contact information and the other is of visitors and the resident they are associated with. Z, and in fact had neither nor did the Neighborhood Watch group. They claimed that the NW people knew all the residents by sight. But they were apparently unaware that Martin's father lived in the community and Martin was living with him. Neighborhood Watch groups (of which I have been a member of one) are taught to write down license numbers and note physical descriptions and to either keep the information in case a crime is committed or to call 911 immediately if the situation warrants. In most gated communities it is a very serious concern that security (and this would include NW) not hassle guests. Z's actions would be unacceptable anywhere on that basis.

7) According to the Florida SYG law, it is Martin would have been entitled to shoot Z, not the other way around. Martin was being aggressively stalked by a stranger in HIS OWN neighborhood. But does anyone believe that if he had shot Z on that basis that he would not be in jail? Duh.

8) The police failed to preserve the crime scene. It was raining and preserving the forensics, including things like bagging Z's hands, taking forensic pictures, and tarping the death scene were never done. The SPD did not even look for shell casings. They simply allowed the rain to wash away any blood spatter evidence, trampled grass, etc knowing that it would make it more difficult to prosecute Z. Ditto for handling Z at the police station. He was allowed to contaminate his jacket and the back of his head.

9) If you go to any of scores of "concealed carry" web sites you will find forums that discuss how to make sure that there is evidence to support your claim of self-defense. On one forum, for example, a poster advided that banging your face on a wall is much easier than doing 20-to-life. They know what stories to tell and what pooints to make. I am not against handguns and own one for self-defense. I would not hesitate it to use it and if I used it would not hesitate to kill. Military training. But in such a case I also know to make sure that the officer taking the report noted that a) I tried to flee or flight was impossible, b) that I had specific reason to believe that the person possessed "deadly force" (anything from a 2x4 to a gun.) and c) that I had specific reason to believe that the person was going to do serious bodily harm to me or my wife. These are the three conditions that must be met in Alabama to prove self-defense. Z was allowed weeks in seclusion to get his story right and to figure out explanations for the many discrepancies.

10) Investigators know that they need to get a detailed statement from a shooted immediately after the shooting. Then they know to keep making the person tell that story over and over as many times and in as much detail as possible. If they have had training they know that any legitimate story will change a little over time as memories are moved from short- to long-term memory. That's just the way the brain works. But with a false story it will "drift" from telling to telling and the latest re-telling will always be defended by the liar with new fabrications. That, too, is how the brain works. No attempt was made to do this by the SPD.

11) This is not the first racial situation for the SPD or several of the individual cops involved. The new police chief was appointed because of a coverup of the son of a SPD policeman's son beating a homeless man caused his predecessor to be fired. This is also most likely why the current police chief refused to be involved in any way with the case.

12) This case is highly politicized in Florida. Florida has a three-way racist dynamic that can be very complex. There is a very complex white society that is older and has a higher than normal percentage of Jewish people. They consider Castillian Cubans as white and all other Latinos as non-white. And both groups are hostile to one another and mutually toward blacks. The refusal to presecute came directly from the state Attorney General who was present when Z was call with the "good news." This is a cheapshot racial situation that is endlessly pandered to by the GOP and local political candidates.

I don't think the whoe and precise truth will ever be known. The SPD took care of that. I do not believe that justice will be served. The SPD took care of that too. I do not believe that Z operated within the SYG law, but the state Attorney General took care of that. And in the true American way, the right is blaming the victim. Blaming the victim is a very bad thing, not so much because it harms the victim, but because it tells you exactly what the person doing the blaming would do if they thought they would not be caught. A man who says that a rape victim caused it by their choice of clothes is really telling you that if they thought they would not be caught that they, too, would be a rapist.

At first blush, we often reach conclusions that are not necessarily correct. When I first saw the photographs of the two men, I jumped to the conclusion that there was no way the fat fellow could have caught the fit fellow! Now it turns out that neither picture was current.

I am guessing that the folks on the scene had the best idea as to what happened.

"Experts" tend to find what they are paid to find. As usual, follow the money.

At first blush, we often reach conclusions that are not necessarily correct. When I first saw the photographs of the two men, I jumped to the conclusion that there was no way the fat fellow could have caught the fit fellow! Now it turns out that neither picture was current.

I am guessing that the folks on the scene had the best idea as to what happened.

"Experts" tend to find what they are paid to find. As usual, follow the money.

Jo-Ass-4354969,

Do some research yourself. Really.... Everyone is an armchair expert and everyone on both sides of this issue are making stuff up to bolster their position.

This whole CIRCUS is disgusting and 90% of the posts (I'm an expert on internet postings by the way) on this page are downright disgusting and indicative of how truly racist all ethnicities are. Let the justice system do its job. I know, I know... It's corrupted and biased and blah blah blah....

willowbrook

Here we have yet another example of biased media. The article says the voice is not Zimmermans' yet in the article.....

Owen told the newspaper that the software compared the screams to Zimmerman's voice and returned a 48 percent match. He said he would expect a match of higher than 90 percent, considering the quality of the audio.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen told the Sentinel.

But he also said he could not confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice.

This paints and entirely different picture, one where you have almost a 50% chance it IS Zimmerman, and no proof it is Martin. Yet, the "expert" says it is not Zimmerman. He can't say that until he compare it to a sound bite of Martin's voice. And we have a recorded phone message, from a caller who is not even within sight of the incident, through the walls of her apartment (that I found to be poor quality) and that's concrete proof. A first year law student can tear this evidence to shreds.

A 48% match is VERY different from a 48% chance it is him. 48% match means that if they used 100 components to figure out whose voice it is, his voice matched 48 out of the 100 components. Owen was saying that if it really was his voice, it would be in the 90's, because small sources of error can cause the results to be off by about 10%.

It's like saying a bank robber had brown hair and blue eyes. If someone has brown hair and brown eyes, they are a 50% match, but the probability that they are the bank robber is much lower than 50%...

madd-dawg -- Why do you even post. You have no idea what you are talking about.

First, with these experts, a success rate must be determined. What is their error rate? So big deal if I claim 50% chance if my standard deviation is say 40%...
To keep it simple for you take something like a pregnancy test -- there is a certain percentage rate of success, and a certain percentage of FALSE positives that have been determined by a very large sample.

Well, how reliable are these experts? What is their rate of false postives and error. Come on. The article is a joke, and if you suck down what they are saying, so is your thinking.

mygirl,

The Orlando Sentinel hired the voice analysts, not NBC, the same bunch that reported Zimmies story LAST week that he was having his head POUNDED into the concrete by Trayvon...

Is there a rush to judgment or just a legitimate concern about the facts as they emerge? Is all of this exacerbated by the fact that the Sanford police department failed to examine all of the facts?

In my opinion, if a child is in a complex where he is the guest of a resident, and that child is walking back to that resident's home through the complex doing nothing illegal, and that child is followed by an armed unidentified male who himself would seem suspicious to that child, and that armed unidentified male has ignored the standards for black watching by their national organization and the instructions of the 911 operator, there is no way that he should be basically exonerated at the scene.

FACT-Zimmerman's 911 call indicate that Trayvon is coming towards him with soemthing in his hands and his hands in his waistband. He then indicates that Trayvon is running away. This is consistent with Trayvon's girlfriend's account of her conversation with Trayvon. If Trayvon is in fact running away, how did they end up together? Zimmerman claims he lost sight of Trayvon and was heading back to his vehicle where Trayvon attacked him and knocked him to the groound. Trayvon's body was found less than 200 feet from his destination, a considerable distance from Zimmerman's truck.

The above alone should have required further investigation or a grand jury. The police did not have enough facts to determine that Zimmerman was operating under the "Stand your Ground" law.

Police officers who shoot citizens in the line of duty are placed on desk duty until the shootings can be investigated. If someone claims an accidental shooting it is fully investigated. Remember the Nets NBA basketball player who said he shot his chaffeur by accident while handling a gun? Michaell Vick did considerable time after being convicted following an exhaustive investigation on the mistreatment of DOGS.

This young man was an innocent child. His life deserves a thorough investigation. There is no question that Zimmerman was the cause of his death. Had Trayvon not encountered Zimmerman that day, he would still be alive.

In a declared case of self defense a person isn't going to get arrested right away, no matter the ethnicity of either party. Geesh people get a grip. Unless Martin's family doesn't want an autopsy, one will be done, and it can take up to 6 weeks or longer. I don't know if Martin has been laid to rest already or not.

I watched one of those real life criminal cases on, I think it was on TLC. This guy had said he found a man over his wife bludgeoning her with a hammer. So he grabbed his gun and shot the guy. The police came, took his statement, looked at the evidence and didn't arrest him, cause everything looked to corroborate with his story. Now the guy was white(Jewish), his wife was white(Jewish), and the assailant was white. So everyone was white, and the procedure in this proclaimed self defense case was handled the same way the Zimmerman case has been handled so far.

There were however a few suspicious things, and it took the police, I think 6 years, to put it all together, only to find out that the guy bludgeoned his own wife, and had called the guy over, to use him as a patsy, and shot him to make it look like a self defense case. Now this was premeditated, and it took the police 6 years. Sometimes murder investigations take a long time.

People need to stop this insane lynch mob mentality, when the facts are unknown to everyone, and let the police handle this case. It will get done. If they think there's holes in Zimmerman's story, they'll mark him as a suspect while they conduct their investigation. And if Zimmerman killed the kid in cold blood, he'll see his day in court. If we fancy ourselves civilized, then we let the law take it's course. This isn't F*%&ing CSI Miami. The way things are going, Zimmerman will be arrested to satisfy the mob, and not because they have any real evidence. To me that is not true justice. Our system is made to protect the accused, not to satisfy the anger of the victimized. That's not justice, that's vigilantism. And anyone saying they know the police didn't gather any evidence, don't know what they're talking about. Amanda posted the beat cop's report, and everything was turned over to the proper investigative team. The area was taped off which means they were securing the area for forensics. Martin's lawyer in this case doesn't even have all the evidence. I heard him say such on the radio. He said he doesn't really know anything yet. If there's a grand jury, then that will be closed and private, and if the jury feels there's enough evidence against Zimmerman, then the lawyers will get all their evidence. You people calling for blood look very ignorant. If Zimmerman, ever does get arrested, he'll probably get charged with negligent homicide.

I really love all the people who have no idea how audio forensics works, its methodology, yet still can comment how the expert is wrong and the method for testing is wrong and the analysis software is wrong.

i doubt zimmy had enough brains or money to afford to live there...if it wasn't for his folks...he would probably be...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxm3fqmRtQc

Watch Zimmerman contaminate jacket evidence in police garage video. The video with the view from front of squad car looking towards back. After cop puts something in trunk and walks away, cops not looking at Zimmerman for split second, Zimmerman takes one quick step back, leans back against wall and scuff jacket on wall by moving both feet forward and pushing his back on wall, then cops say come, and Zimmerman lunges forward which will leave wall marks on jacket. May have scraped head against wall too. Jacket would look like he claims being on back on sidewalk while marks would be from painted concrete wall. Only took about 2 seconds or less for him to do it. Hope someone contacts authorities and news outlets on this.

Is all of this exacerbated by the fact that the Sanford police department failed to examine all of the facts?

You see this is the problem. How does anyone know the police department didn't examine all the facts? You don't know all the facts; I don't know all the facts. You only have bits and pieces fed to you by the media who feed off sensationalism. Even if they suspect something was off, they wouldn't arrest Zimmerman right away and charge him. What exactly would the DA charge him with? They would need to do more investigating before throwing him in jail. Don't worry. Even if there was some grand conspiracy to protect Zimmerman because of his relations or whatever, the lynch mobs have made such a raucous, they'll do something.

Although I do find it curious, that they haven't arrested him yet with all this public pressure. It might mean the DA doesn't have enough evidence to convict.

Really Koza Dereza? I don't know anything? I think it is you.

"The standard error is the standard deviation of the sampling distribution of a statistic."

You see, when you actually conduct a big boy experiment, you calculate something called the standard error. It takes into account how accurate your tools are (this ruler is only accurate down to the millimeters, etc.) and how accurate your findings were (this results keeps fluctuating between 4 and 6, so I will record 5 +/-1, etc.). From there you use an actual mathematical equation to calculate the standard error. Statisticians like to calculate the standard deviation from the statistics, but that's because they don't care about WHY some results are statistically insignificant. Scientists like to answer why, and that's why they calculate error.

Looks like I already included standard deviation. As for your other posts about this article and these findings being a joke, forgive me for not exactly trusting your "expert opinion". I mean, you didn't even know something as trivial as the relationship between standard error and standard deviation.

"Herp derp, I know the term standard deviation, but have no idea how it relates to any kind of scientific experiment. I think I'll just call someone an idiot and throw this term out there! Everyone knows that when you call someone stupid and include 1 actual term, you automatically win!!!"

Why don't you go home and play with your toys. The big boys would like to actually discuss things without having to explain basic concepts to a child.

Here is what the Feds think of this new evidence.

Zimmerman remains free with no charges pending against him for his lawful use of self defense.

Wow, we have "experts" and "Kangaroo Courts" on the vine today.

Bottom line: the investigation WILL get completed, the results will be forward to the DA, the DOJ will bow OUT of this STATE case, the Flordia DA will make the decision for court proceedings, and the court WITH A JURY will decide the case.

Mr. Obama will issue a FORMAL APOLOGETIC STATEMENT to the American people saying he erred once again by jumping into something he did NOT have the facts for.

The Congressional representatives who showed DISRESPECT to the Congressional Halls will immediately resign.

Mr. Sharpton, Mr. Jackson, the ALCU, and the rest of the "inciters" will go home and mediate on their ludicrous comments.

The DOJ will issue arrest warrants for the Black Panthers for their ILLEGAL Warrant for Arrest, with bounty.

The "social" and "news" media will issue an apology to the American people for their erroneous reporting on this case.

END OF DAD GUM STORY !!!

A scream for help under stress is nothing at all like your normal voice and can not be compared to it with any accuracy.

Ever hear a grown man scream like a girl ?

it happens, look it up.

I am sure that if you had been pinned to the ground and had someone on top of you that was trying to kill you,your voice may be a little stressed as well.

@ron, even if a grown man screamed "like a girl," the audio forensic software would still match his scream to his speaking voice. It's designed to do that.

It is Zimmerman on the tape,

Do you see the Feds kicking in Zimmerman's door?

The Feds know the voice is Zimmerman's,and the witness says it was Zimmerman.

madd-dawg -- As I said, why do you post? You have no idea what you are even saying.

I will now educate you, for free. The standard deviation is a way to quantify the error in the case of randomly distributed errors.

So, let us examine what you said. You mentioned how accurate your tools are. If you tools are miscalibrated, that is not a random error, and your measurements are going to be consistently wrong in one direction and not necessarily around the correct mean. Hence you will not necessarily get a bell shaped curve. So the concept of instrument error is a not as simple as calculating the sd, although if you don't know what you are doing -- and you don't -- then it will be useful as the rest of your data...questionable and misleading.

Regardless of your lack of knowledge, the accuracy the tests, and the accuracy of those administering it has to be determined before any claim of "scientific proof" can be claimed.

Kate Indigo said:

If Zimmerman, ever does get arrested, he'll probably get charged with negligent homicide.

The 'offense' listed on the police reports list the entire incident as:

'HOMICIDE-NEGLIGENT MANSLAUGHTER-UNNECESSARY KILLING TO PREVENT UNLAWFUL ACT.'

Doing some digging, this is how FL defines that:

FL Statute 782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree.

Tried in the media again. Good old USA, it's getting worse than the UK. What about all the other shootings and murders that happen every 1.3 minutes of every day

in the 90s, it was a murder or shooting every 40 seconds in the USA, so things really are getting better, in fact crime is half what it was in the 90s here in the US. the statistics are easy to find if you just look it up

Wow, listen to all of the sheep....

A news organization pays for a test and you all take it as gospel! Has anyone thought to question the methodology of the test? Has anyone thought to question the fact that they are comparing GZ's voice to a scream? Has anyone considered that to conserve bandwidth, phone companies restrict bandwidth of voice transmission reducing the highest and lowest octaves of the audible spectrum thereby distorting the tone? Has anyone considered that the microphone position and angle would affect the tone of the voice- high frequencies reflect more than low frequencies.

I would like to know more about how each sample was recorded before i accept their theory as fact- you know like they would do in a court of law!

Some of you are so convinced that GZ is a murderer that you are accepting everything that supports your current beliefs as fact while flat out rejecting or ignoring all evidence that doesn't support your beliefs. How can you possibly claim to know the truth if your mind is made up? We haven't even seen all of the evidence yet.

Zimmerman claims self defense under

CHAPTER 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE.

Wow, so what state allows you to just shoot anyone and get away with it? I know a few friends that would like to move there and invite their ex over and then shoot them in self defense. What state was that?

This is how MSNBC and a most black community leaders work, with a rush to judgment. Just like with the president he always sides with the blacks before the evidence is even known. Just like when Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr was arrested by the Cambridge Police, Obama rushed to judgment there calling the police stupid. I don't know why MSNBC is still running this story; there is only one witness and he confirms what Zimmerman said. So with that being the only evidence it is pretty clear this looks to be a case of self defence "stand your ground as it is in Florida". They are trying to make this a White, Black issue of racism, news flash Zimmerman is Mexican not White. Hear is just one example of how bias everyone has become on this case.

Congresswoman Corrine Brown (D-Fla.) insisted on CNN Wednesday that her colleagues‘ outrage over teen Trayvon Martin’s death was not solely because Martin was black — but faltered when asked to name the murdered “young white female” Brown said she was just as concerned about.

“Would you, would your fellow African American lawmakers be as concerned about this case if Trayvon wasn’t black?” CNN’s Brooke Baldwin asked.

“Oh let me tell you something. We had an incident in my area where a young white female was murdered and I was just as concerned, absolutely, I care about all of the children,” Brown said. “You know, you can make this –”

“Congresswoman Brown, what was her name?” Baldwin interjected.

Brown paused, then asked, “The young lady that got killed?”

“Yes ma’am,” Baldwin said.

“In, in Orange, uh, County,” Brown stammered. Looking off camera, she seemed to be conferring with someone, and said, “Yeah, yeah, the young lady who got killed.”

“Do you remember?” Baldwin pressed.

“Uh, I don’t — I don’t remember, but we had all kinds of rallies in the community, in Jacksonville, that I participated in and I made sure that the sheriff department had the money that they need to pursue the case, so just don’t try to act like this is about this one black male, this is about all of the children,” Brown said.

Seems Libs are good at trying to make something into nothing for there political gain. This is clearly not a hate crime nor is it racism, but you wouldn't know it was just a case of self defence if you listened to everyone, but the WITNESS. It is pretty sad that Spike Lee tweeted what he thought was Zimmerman's address; the left is trying to insight violence.

MSNBC how about reporting on actual murders, there are plenty of them on the borders of USA/Mexico, now there is a story; I forgot that is not on your(msnbc) side of politics. How about report the NEWS, I know that is a foreign concept to you(msnbc) but that is what you are suppose to be doing, REPORTING not making up stories.

Until there is another witness that comes forward we have only the one witnesses account. He attests the same scenario as Zimmerman, therefore it is self defence. Trying to make this political it just wrong no matter the side. We could go back and forth with views, but there is only one witness.

Amanda why would you let the school designate a racial identity for your children and you not do it? By your own admission your children are multiracia -l half of you their Asian mother and half of your husband Polish and Native American. Why would you rob your children of a rich multicultural identity and just go with the school's designation as white? When they're older how will you explain their racial amnesia that will develop because of this? Will you answer your children, well I'm Asian and Daddy is Polish and Native American but we're just going to make you guys white that way you'll have a better chance at life. What are you thinking?

Hence you will not necessarily get a bell shaped curve. So the concept of instrument error is a not as simple as calculating the sd, although if you don't know what you are doing -- and you don't -- then it will be useful as the rest of your data...questionable and misleading.

Now are you being deliberately stupid? This is what I said above (I will place the part you obviously missed in bold). "From there you use an actual mathematical equation to calculate the standard error."

You see, scientists don't just look at the numbers, calculate the standard deviation and say "Oh, that's the error". Scientists calculate something called the "uncertainty" of a measurement, and when you standardize the results, you get the standard error (see, the standard part comes from you standardizing it, and the error comes from the error in the measurement). Here are some formulas used to calculate the unstandardized uncertainty.

http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys273/uncert/uncert.html

Oh, and I'll go ahead and anticipate that you will respond with "Oh, but you were talking about standard error in the context of statistics." Well, 2 things here.

1. Scientists specifically present their data in a way such that the calibrated uncertainty is equal to the standard error. It greatly simplifies things when you set things up so a statistician can easily understand things (unfortunately, they do not have the same mathematical background as lot of these scientists). You see, scientists do experiments to test their hypothesis, and one way they do that is by checking to see if the measurements match up with the calculated expectations. They calculate (notice, I said calculate, not just guess according to the standard deviation) the standard error, and if the results are outside, they know that either their hypothesis was incorrect or there were unknown sources of error. It is exactly what happened with the neutrinos at CERN. Their measurement for the speed of the neutrinos were outside of their standard error, so they knew that either there was something wrong with their equipment or the universal speed limit of 3*10^8 m/s was not correct.

2. Why in the world would I be using the statistics context for the word "error" in my first post? I was talking about scientific measurements. You brought up standard deviation and introduced the statistics context.

I'm talking about physics terms here because these calculations were done using physics.

In your first post, you asked why I didn't include standard deviation and called me stupid. Next, you called me stupid for using it in a situation without random errors. So I'm stupid for not using standard deviation, but I'm stupid for using it. Nice logic!

It is clear that you are approaching this from a statistician's point of view, not a scientist's. I'm done trying to explain experimental procedures to you.

A fact many Americans should be concerned about is how soooo many Americans are STILL being ignored. The government IGNORES the people. Soo many protesters sooo many t.v. personality's demanding justice in the simple form of an arrest. Yet still no arrest. This is a small instance of the greater picture of government NEVER bowing to the will of the people. Instead they wish to do as they please. And all people are asking for is for the liar false reporting over zealous murderer Mr. Zimmerman to be arrested like anyone else would have been for murder and other crimes he committed. YET nothing. ; ]

It shows that in fact this DOUBLE standard of law still exists and isn't going away anytime soon. You see the daddy Zimmerman is a former judge garnering special favors and influence from other republicans in the party across state line where his son now lives to have his son protected. Why? Why does this double standard of prosecution and law still exist? It is pathetic and sickening that because of who his daddy is he has had special treatment from the "Chief" and the "States Attorney" showing up to override the on scene head detectives insistence on an arrest. To everything we have seen thus far. It is time to shut this police force and "States Attorney" office down. It is TIME for the law to be for us all. EVERYONE.

Cheers

RRadiko #1.48 "19th-century-style, "shoot first to stand-your-ground" concealed weapons, pro-NRA law"

As opposed to what? The primordial law of nature from the dawn of man? Survival of the fittest? Only the strong survive?

Susie #1.94 "And I would imagine that Trayvon would have more sense than to attack Zimmerman. How often do you find a little fish attacking a whale? What kind of weapon would a bag of Skittles or a can of iced tea make against a whale."

I once saw a little girl slam a 200 pound football player in the side of the head with a 12 ounce can of beer and drop him like a sack of potatoes. I didn't imagine that. I also recall Tracey Martin stating at 9 years old Trayvon saved his life by dragging him out of a burning building, so the kid was not a small fry weakling.

Dan #1.95 "So you would take the eyewitness account over scientific data?"

Yes, I would. Especially when you back that up with Tracey Martins initial statement that it was not his sons voice on the 911 tape. He has since changed his story saying it is his sons voice on the tape. As for objectivity when this story broke and I thought Martin was the voice calling for help (as the article stated "unarmed black teen shot while pleading for his life") I told my brother they ought to hang that son of a bitch. The more I read about it the less stock I took in sensational headlines and the objectivity of the media. The more I see a little boys picture the less inclined I am to believe the media is being objective. When the police station video came out and it was apparent that Zimmerman was not the 250 pounder he appeared to be seven years ago in the prison jump suit the news anchor noted that and said he appeared.... "chiseled". Doesn't sound too objective to me. The fact that the one of the first things his family did was to make sure his school records were sealed and shut down and wiped his facebook account looks like they think what was there would not reflect favorably on their son. As objective as the media has been on this I wonder how many experts they paid to Analize the voice recording. Was it just the two? Or four, or ten? With all this "damning evidence" and every law enforcement agency from the local to the federal level involved why has he not been arrested? Couldn't be because there is not enough evidence to convict. Must be racism. I'm sure every cop and paramedic and district attorney involved got together and said let's put our jobs and pension on the line for good ole George the ensuing race riots will be great for job security.

I also recall Tracey Martin stating at 9 years old Trayvon saved his life by dragging him out of a burning building, so the kid was not a small fry weakling.

Well I guess that means that Trayvon had adrenal glands like the rest of us.

Yes. What's your point?

Careful there Wild Bill, I think you are greatly under estimating just how unreliable eye witness testimony really is. Read the article on the link below about just how accurate eye witness testimony can be.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18560_162-4848039.html?pageNum=4&tag=contentMain;contentBody

In my Psychology course I took 2 years ago, we read about a study someone did into memory. It is easily influenced. There was an experiment they did where they had someone read their childhood journal, but they had forged a couple pages saying that the boy had been lost at the mall one day. The man later on gave very vivid details about being separated from his mother and being frightened. He had vivid memories of an event that never even happened, he was just convinced they had happened.

When DNA was first introduced into court rooms, it helped overturn hundreds of falsely imprisoned men. In the first 200 of these cases, 75% of the men were convicted by eye witness testimony and other circumstantial evidence.

I would absolutely rather believe scientific data than an eye witness.

Mad dawg you are talking about a man recalling an incident from his childhood not something a simple as who was yelling for help minutes or hours ago

Ronin-2231356

Zimmerman has yet to be arrested, let alone be charged and that needs to happen because by Florida statute he as to be within 170 something days or he can never be arrested or charged for this murder.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry Ronin there is not statute of limitations on murder in Florida.....

Manslaughter, No time limit

Fla. Stat. § 775.15(1)

Murder, No time limit

Fla. Stat. § 775.15(1)

Personally I am so sick of hearing about this case. This is a case that has the tapes doctored to make it look as more then it is, and sadly the media rather then be responsible and report a unbiased and true report has doctored the tapes to make it sound like more then it is. Now before people get in a uproar I am not saying this is not a sad and tragic thing, but unlike most people I am not a judge and I promise that no one other then the authorities has all the facts, so to be judge and jury, putting bounties on Zimmerman, and harassing people because of tweets giving out the wrong address is wrong.

Where is the outrage about the young men killed daily in Black American area's of town, why isn't the media paying more attention to this, there are children being killed every day. Why are not the civil rights leaders speaking out against this? The reason is because the civil rights leaders need this type of case to keep their jobs, the news does not care one little bit about a black American getting killed by another, they want sensationalism and to stir up controversy. And to have members of congress standing up as if this is their platform tells us how badly they are failing us, they should instead be talking about the price of gas, unemployment, and doing their jobs running the government.

What is happening in this is it is going to turn out like the boy that cried wolf; you can yell racism about everything for so long and sooner or later the public will quit caring, and this is when the people that have paid for advances in racial equality in their blood will find that they have spilt their blood in vain because all it turned out was that what they fought for was thrown away for political expediency and for journalistic ratings. Personally I am disgusted by it.

Mad Dawg -- Again, why do you post? You have no idea what you are saying.

The basis of all error calculation in science is math. The rules of error combiantion were derived using math, after which they are blindly applied by students. It does not matter if you post a physics link, the rules given in that link were all derived only with math -- not physics. That you think it is somehow relevant to quote physics shows --- again-- you do not understand the concepts you are parroting.

That you think there is a distinction between statistical error and what scientists report as error says it all - generally that is not the case, except in the case of systemic error...That you have not understood my example of miscalibrated instruments -- which is systemic error --- again simply underscores the point -- why do you even post?

Regardless of your lack of knowledge, the accuracy of the tests, and the accuracy of those administering it has to be determined before any claim of "scientific proof" can be claimed

Are these the same two audio experts who manipulated the 911 recording in a effort make Zimmerman appear to be a racist?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

.

John,

I doubt it. But I'd be interested to know if these "experts" used the doctored tape in their analysis.

@ Ido - well said....

As for the rest of you....nothing has changed since my first post, except more hate, armchair lawyering and racism. These articles have become pointless, instead of waiting for the completion of the Investigation, the Media is trickling out any little bit that can keep this story alive and continue to inflame those who do not respect our laws and expect a vendetta to be carried out pronto..

I will leave you with this little tidbit.....anyone who has worked with teens know teen consider thems selves pretty much invincible. Despite what has been told them by adults, they still have this notion, that usually pops up at the wrongest time possible. All those who are screaming for Zimmerman's blood are wrong. No where has there been one shred of evidence showing Zimmerman planned this. When you brush aside the racism and the twisting of evidence, we come back to the same conclusion every time. Of all the evidence, only the part where Martinconfronted Zimmerman is logical. Had it been the other way around, Zimmerman would not have been injured as he would have been prepared since he was the aggressor, the gun came into play only at the end of the altercation, showing Zimmerman was defending himself from an attack. There is no pre-meditation, or stalking, or racial profiling. Identifying a person who matches the description of a criminal is just that, identification, nothing more.

It is time for all this hatred and racism to stop and let the Justice system do their job. It is time to grow up and see this for what it really is, not what you want it to be. Using racism to fuel your hatred causes you to make only certain deaths worthy, when all them are equally bad, not just the one you are obsessing over. Other, more heinous cases are being ignored by folks like you, because the deceased is not black. Why is a black death more important than all the other races? Have you asked yourself that? (Really asked.....)

First- Zimmerman is bi-racial. His father is white and his mother is Hispanic, so he is mixed race. He appears to be white so I'm sure many people think he is white. Many people who are not Hispanic have hair as dark as Zimmerman's so there is no way to know he is Hispanic looking at him. Unlike Trayvon Martin- who is unquestionably black.

The homeowners association that authorized the Neighborhood Watch is being sued so I'm not surprised some of them would want to take Zimmerman's side. However, it must be noted that Zimmerman was not in compliance with the regulations of Neighborhood Watch that they agree to uphold in order to post those little signs around the neighborhood. The first regulation Zimmerman broke was that he was out patrolling and Neighborhood Watch says not to do that. The second violation was that he was armed and even though he had a concealed carry permit, Neighborhood Watch is very specific that no one is to be armed with anything more than a telephone and they are supposed to be watching during the normal course of their day; while at home and when driving to and from their home- not out patrolling. So Zimmerman won't get a lot of help in that department because he was not doing what he was supposed to do. Since he was the one who organized the Neighborhood Watch- including having the woman from the police department who deals with Neighborhood Watch training come out- and was elected by his fellow homeowners to be the "Captain" of Neighborhood Watch, the Homeowners Association is certainly going to share responsibility for Zimmerman being out there armed- which at least some of the other homeowners knew he was.

The reason this case has taken on a life of its own has more to do with the fact that the prosecutor decided to not file charges at all and did not even present the case to a grand jury. The least they could have done was to put it before a grand jury so that the people had an opportunity to have a say on the case; whether Zimmerman had a right to claim self defense when he was clearly outside the bounds of the law and outside the regulations governing Neighborhood Watch. Even if Trayvon Martin did end up confronting Zimmerman, Martin had no way of knowing who this armed man chasing him was and that he was not a threat to Martin. Martin was doing nothing wrong- committing no crime. I think it is reasonable for anyone to feel threatened by someone following you. Trayvon could easily have claimed self defense if he did confront Zimmerman because he had no way of knowing he wasn't in danger from this man. Except that Trayvon is dead and can't claim anything. And since he is dead at the hands of Zimmerman, his killer can now try to claim self defense and may well get away with murder. The law that Zimmerman is claiming self defense under, the “Stand Your Ground” law says that people do not have to retreat if they are in danger from someone breaking into your home or endangering you or someone you are defending. But since Martin was endangering no one and the only trouble came about because Zimmerman was pursuing the teenager, I don’t see how any reasonable person could think Zimmerman was in the right. Had Zimmerman been doing as he should have done he would have not been anywhere near Trayvon to have a confrontation with him that would have necessitated any shooting. I do not see how the “Stand Your Ground” law can be justification for the killing of Trayvon Martin.

Almost 6,000 comments on this one article, not to mention the thousands of posts on previous headlines concerning this particular story. Now, if anyone ever said that sensationalism wasn't profitable, this would be proof positive that they were wrong. If MSNBC is getting paid by the post then I think they done paid the rent...into next year.

This is becoming repetitive and the responses are also repetitive. The ones wanting Zimmerman's head on a platter will never see anything but the rightness of their opinion, this is also the same for those claiming Zimmerman's innocence. In the middle are those calling for reason and calm and asking that a 'rush to judgement' attitude be avoided at all costs. Those folks are, of course, in the minority.

In the meantime, life goes on, there are other articles and other stories and this one is getting a tad, shall we say, monotonous. When something of real moment happens, like they arrest Zimmerman or they exonerate Zimmerman, then it become interesting, til then it is mere speculation and sensationalism.

Personally, after listening to all the speculation and innuendo, after a careful examination of all the available evidence I have come to the conclusion that: It was Major Peacock, in the library, with the candlestick.

What does it MATTER how big or small Trayvon was? He who walks into a gun fight without a gun loses - period.

Since everyone is creating scenarios - here is another one. Pudgy guy chasing a teenage 'runner' - trips on his own feet and falls down. That's as plausible as all the other scenarios.

My question - how can a drunk driver be charged with second degree murder and a shooter not even held for questioning?

Gee, how are all you haters and racists feeling now that it has been revealed NBC edited the 911 tape? While I didn't consider the edited tape racist, the original is definitely NOT racist. It was wonderful to not listen to CBS continue their biased coverage of this incident. It is no wonder FOX news is the #1 new channel in the country. Certainly can't count on the "big 3" let alone CNN "opinion news."

So when do the apologies begin? NBC, CBS, the Reverends, Spike Lee, and those in Washington who jumped on the racist bandwagon, when will you apologize? (chirping crickets.....) yea, thought so..

Zimmerman should sue NBC.

Is it getting that bad that Republicans want to be able to shoot anyone any time?

jac-931625 Comment collapsed by the communityHey MSN - when are you going to get a current picture of what Treyvon really looked reently? You know, with the gold teeth and everything.

So now...in your world...possessing a gold tooth is grounds for murder?

This is becoming repetitive and the responses are also repetitive. The ones wanting Zimmerman's head on a platter will never see anything but the rightness of their opinion, this is also the same for those claiming Zimmerman's innocence. In the middle are those calling for reason and calm and asking that a 'rush to judgement' attitude be avoided at all costs. Those folks are, of course, in the minority.

Rush to judgement? Zimmerman still walks free. He gunned down a 17 year old boy. In the vast majority of cases he would be behind bars until after an arraignment. You tell me what is different about this case.

MSNBC continues to embarrass itself, first with the 911 call, second with the police HQ video, and now 2 voice recognition experts who have both now admitted they didn't have enough voice print to do a full analysis and their tests showed a 48% probability that the voice was Zimmerman's.

I don't know if MSNBC is just trying to set themselves up for a massive defamation of character lawsuit or if they really are just that blind to their own prejudice. In the end I just hope the real unbiased truth comes out whether Zimmerman did commit manslaughter or if he didn't, Trayvon's family deserves to hear the truth, did their son assault Zimmerman forcing him to fear for his life or did Zimmerman escalate the scenario unprovoked?

Shame on you MSNBC, there is a place in hell waiting for your staff.

Yea, so are the voice eggspurts. A voice comparison on only one voice and no recording of the Falsetto?

WTF BOgus.

WTF Mike.. WTF? Did you hear the audio? It is obvious that it is a young man. Because he is crying like a like a little bitch. (sorry, no disrespect intended, he has every right to cry like a little bitch considering). If Zimmerman's account was true he would not have been able to cry for help.

If Zimmerman's account was true he would have at least had a gash in his head you could see.

If Zimmerman's account was true then his tshirt would have been covered in blood.

If Zimmerman's account was true than Martin would have been found on his back, not his face. (Due to pushing Martins body off of himself.)

If Zimmerman's account was true than it would have happened on someone's front yard (near his vehicle) not someone's back yard.

If Zimmerman's account were true then there would be some bruising or scraping on Martins hands.

If the police's account were true we would have seen grass stains on his clothes, because according to them, it occurred on grass, not concrete.

The audio analysis did not tell us anything new. It only scientifically verified something that was obvious to anyone who heard the tape in the first place.

I wonder if they would hate Zimmerman more if he was white?

Why is the media pushing so hard on this near election time?

Tail wagging the dog?

Pay no attention to the real problems of America we have a story here. (No, not really.)

Rockyroad, why do you continue to log onto this site if you hate it so much? Do you pour vinegar on your razor cuts too? Either you understand the underlying issues here or you dont, and if you dont, why waste your time?

48% match, hmmmm. if it wasn't Zimmerman's voice, why should there be any percent match? Under stress, anyone's voice changes. As for blood evidence, having had my broken on three occasions, it only bled on one of those and no very much. I have had worse nose bleeds from the heat than I had from damage to my nose. Same with wounds to the head. I have been in several car accidents where I hit the windshield and the worst damage that was visible was a bit of glass in my hair and yet there was my hair going through the breaks in the glaas and still there when they took me out of the car! That time I had a concussion and was out for about 2 minutes and yet when I got out of the car I walked quite normally and to the ambulance. Before I got to the hospital, the emts had cleaned all my wounds, kept a check on my vision, and made sure I was basically ok even before the hospital got to me. I had a severe cut on my chin that you could put your thumb in and yet before we got to the hospital, it had quit bleeding. We're talking about 5 minutes of travel time. There was very little blood to the top of my head where it hit the windshield and the only marks were from broken glass. That was from a 50 mph T-bone crash where someone turned in front of me and I had 12 inches of skid marks before we hit. As for bruising, bruises don't show up for hours and on the hands of someone that died, there would be no bruising whatsoever. The reason being, bruises are caused by blood flowing into the area of damage. and with the ceasing of Trayvon's heart, no blood would go to his hands to make any bruising marks in that short of time.

Back to the voice match, they compared a voice that was echoing into a phone that then was recorded on a not better than average recorder? I would think they were lucky to get a 48 % match. The phone was not near the voice so I doubt it was very clear. Think of you listening to someone on the phone and people in the background, can you tell who is talking in the background/ Then record it on a handheld recorder and listen again. Sorry, the voice match evidence doesn't wash with me. They shouldn't have got 48% if it wasn't Zimmerman.

Voice test on 1 voice. Same 5 yr old picture. Is msnbc biased?? Nahhhh why would you say that? They just have to keep stirring the pot and all those libbies keep saying..." Seeeee I told you he was guilty, msnbc says so!!"

Pay no attention to the real problems of America we have a story here. (No, not really.)

If you don't think an unarmed kid, walking home from the store and getting shot dead by a vigilante with an itchy trigger finger is a real problem in America, then you'd better start paying attention to reality.

Unless you want the same thing to happen to you.

I wish they would change Zimmermans picture, I'm getting squeamish.

I would think they both yelled at some point.. Did George yell for help after he was punched in the nose or before.. Squeeze your nose and scream, sure changes the pitch don't it because the sinuses are like valves in a musical instrument.. Would make a big difference and so would the persons stress level.. Ever heard the term HE SCREAMED LIKE A LITTLE GIRL.. As for him leaning against the wall, could be he was unsticking a wedgie and getting his @!$%# together after the shots to his head and uncomfortable car ride.. Sitting on your hands with handcuffs on kinda sucks.. All these technicalities and assumptions, now a 50/50 chance that is/is not his voice.. Sorry but it would not hold water in a court of law..

I agree that injuries can vary and so can recovery time.. Boxers do it for a living so some people can take more punishment than others..

I have an open mind as well and try to challenge concepts and so called evidence put out by the media.. Logic is looking at a problem at all angles and through science not guessing sum a solution just like the police do..

Well Georgie didn't think Martin would be screaming and it would be recorded. He needs a needle or the good old rope actually. Reinstitute the rope.

Why are the Sanford Police Keystone cops protecting this a — — H — — E ? Zimmerman had domestic violence charges against him....anger management issues for sure....Since the Martin kid was walking in a strange neighbor, and the dispatcheer said "ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM," and George replies, "YES." Right there is proof that it's NOT STAND YOUR GROUND. Zimmerman was itching to kill someone. Now the least the Sanford Keystone cops could charge him at the very least with MANSLAUGHTER and be done with the potential riots that are bound to happen if they don't ARREST HIM SOON. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car as he was told NOT TO FOLLOW, all this would never have happened.

This is a very simple case, #1 Man stalks child,he is 17 ,that makes him a child. #2 Man disobey order from police dispatcher to quit following the child. , he is a cop wanna be >, #3 Man use profiling language to describe victim, < I don,t care if he said coon or goon, that is profiling, even though I believe 100% he said coon. #4 Man gets out of his car and confronts child, < When G .Z. did this act, you can throw out his defense of standing your ground, ,,, this belongs to Trayvon// ,self defense,,, he walked up to Trayvon, not the other way around. ,,, GS claims he feared for his life. Well if he had never got out of his car where he was totally safe instead of tracking a child on foot he would have nothing to fear. // #5 Man murders child , G.Z. murdered this child in cold blood by walking up to him and shooting him at point blank range then lied about the events proceeding up to it and after , he figured ,as well as the police of sanford, that no one would make a fuss out of a murder of a young black male, OH HOW WRONG THEY WERE,, Trayvon Martin has a mother, father ,siblings uncle,s aunt,s cousin,s friends and above all GOD, who wants justice served.

Zimmerman was seen straddling Trayvon's face-down corpse -- pressing his hands firmly on his back. We have two eye witnesses who saw Zimmerman straddling Treyvon with his hands pressed into Treyvon's back, AFTER the gunshots.

Who wants to bet he shot him in the back? If the gunpowder residue on Trayvon's jacket is on the back, rather than the front, Zimmerman will be in a whole world of hurt. That would mean he pinned him down, face down. He then shot him in the back. And then he continued to keep him pinned down as he bled out.

Neighborhood Watch does NOT have the legal authority to detain anyone until the police arrive. PERIOD. That makes Zimmerman the aggressor, and makes the entire 'stand your ground' law irrelevant. It doesn't apply to anyone who is an aggressor.

calling for the same kind of (in)justice you say Zimmerman gave Martin. PJ this is what we have laws for so vigilantes like you can't go around acting as judge, jury, and EXECUTIONER.

Some of you are saying this is not so much about the people involved but the police department screwing up the investigation. IF thats so why aren't you attacking the officers, DA and whoever else you think is responsible within Florida law enforcement? Instead it's personal attacks against Zimmerman and anyone who dares to support him, defaming his father and brothers characters without a shred of evidence to substansiate your accusations. Beleiving every little scrap of news the media presents with no verification and listening to known race baiters such as Sharpton, Jackson, Lee, and the racist black panthers authorizing a contract hit on Zimmermans life. We know how celebrities and twitter have already bastardized the justice system by putting the elderly couple (assumed to be Zimmerman) thru hell for no good reason. Nice work all you arm chair lawyers, judges, and self appointed executioners!!!!! When this is over who will be next?????????

After listening too this recording without a doubt I know this was the voice of a young male child, and not a White full grown man. My God what is in the heart of a person to take such a young life, just because of pure hate in its rawest form. George, your days are numbered I hope you know that. I need not even pollute my mind with vengences for you because a higher power is already at work. George I just want too let you know this You might get by, but you won't get away. Today justices is going to be done and you are going too reap what you sow.

Sharron65 You know beyond a shadow of a doubt without ever hearing either scream in panic before.. I hope that you never get on any jury other than for a parking ticket..

Epinnoia He was shot point blank in the chest not in the back if you would stop dreaming and read the reports you would have seen this..The shot occurred while they were fighting as confirmed by an eye wittiness.. So not only do George, the 3 police officers, the EMS crew, the detective, the police chief, the county prosecutor, the state prosecutor and the witnesses conspire.. Trayvons(tm) own body moved that gunshot wound from his back to his chest.. Amazing deduction Watson...

The experts are court certified and most have millions of dollars worth of equipment. The fact that is doesn't match his voice will stand. The way it works isn't comparative to another voice. It is compared to the voice in question. The pitch isn't the factor as much as the shape of the wave. We all have unique anomalies in our voices this is what they look for. Also we have similarities that will show in an analysis. Treyvon was from Miami which has a different dialect than Sanford. I lived in Miami for 9 years and once you get north of Orlando, Tampa/St Pete it changes. This needs to go to court to work out the inconsistencies. The fact that Zimmerman's father was a judge doesn't lend creditability to his cause. Also his friend saying he used the word coon as a term of endearment is troubling.

Wow Sharron. You were able to determine "without a doubt" from that audio that it was not a "White" full grown man, but rather a black boy. I hope you are not selected for the jury. It's racists like you that are incapable of looking at facts objectively and evaluating them before coming to a conclusion. OJ is a prime example of injustice due to deep rooted racism.

Or sometimes when you are upset and emit vulgar phrases they can be a jumble of anything..

JH - this expert is "court qualified" not "court certified" (whatever that means). He was hired by a newspaper, not the courts or prosecuters. Are you asserting that this biased report will be admisible in court and be a deciding factor in the case? The defense can hire ten audio experts of their own that will say that it is Z's voice on the tape.

More recent photos of both. If these were shown in the articles, would people's opinion be different?

Reporters keep calling Tryavon a boy. They must be racist using that slur.

@surroundedbyfools ---you can often tell the voice of one race from another if you have been around different types of people and have friends who are of different nationalities than yourself...but it doesn't sound like you know that. Also what the hell are you talking about? Obviously sharron is not a racist...and what does OJ have to do with this? You are obviously the racist and the fool, stop trying to spin it; you suck at it.

@liarsinpolitics 17 is a boy dumba$$ -and the picture of trayvon was the most recent available; there are other pictures of him as well. The argument about the pictures is petty and does not change the fact that zimmerman killed an innocent boy...and now we know for sure -lied about it.

We know for sure he lied about it??!! When did the trial start?

@rae - really? That is the latest photo of Trayvon available? How about one of these instead?

Just another jack@ss that wants to be judge, jury and executioner without regard for facts or trial.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-photos-can-be-deceiving/

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-stories/168391/the-iconic-photos-of-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-why-you-may-not-see-the-others/

The 911 call that I heard through the media was the cries of the young boy. I posted that on a previous post. I heard the FBI is now in on this that is great news! Mr. Zimmerman you killed that boy with no probable cause and you will be held accountable. Hearing those cries for help would of had me running to help it was heartbreaking to hear.....This should be a lesson to all HOA'S do not allow weapons while patrolling...incidentally I heard Zimmermans 911 call when the PD dispatcher told him NOT to follow the boy he did anyway subsequently killing him...

Zimmerman, claims he was punched in the nose so hard he sustained a broken nose. 1. Where are the medical records? Doesn't a broken nose need medical treatment at the ER? 2. When someone is punched in the nose it bleeds, a lot. Especially when punched hard enough to break the bone. Anyone see Zimmerman's shirt? See any blood? 3. Zimmerman claims his head was banged of the concrete. Where are the medical records? Doesn't a person whose head was repeatedly banged off the concrete need medical treatment? 4. The scalp like the nose bleeds profusely when damaged. Anyone see any blood on the back of Zimmerman's head or jacket? In the video Zimmerman was handcuffed. That means he was under arrest. The cops did their job. 5. Where are their reports? The prosecutor declined to prosecute, why? 6. Did Zimmerman receive medical treatment from paramedics at the seen? Where are their reports? Treyvon was 6 foot tall but only 140lbs. Sound like a fighter to you? At six foot tall he was 20 lbs. light for his appropriate weight. He was still built like a kid. A six foot tall man would at least weigh 180 to 200. Other than being black and wearing a hoodie what did he do that deserved being followed by anyone? (sarcasm) How would you like to be followed and stalked by someone on the street? Someone not a policeman or uniformed security guard. Just a lone nut with a gun! Zimmerman failed to follow order from the 911 operator. He was the agressor. You can't be the agressor and claim self defense. Especially when the attack never happened. The kid went to the 7-11 of a ice tea and candy.

USA/CANUK,

Voice test on 1 voice

How many did you want?

It was a test to determine if it was Zimmerman's voice....DUH...

Test Zimmerman AGAINST Zimmerman, and it was a big FAIL...

Comprende vous?

Nope. It just doesn't add up.

Most likely scenario:

The screams heard were Zimmerman's while getting pummeled and unable to get away. He feared for his life, screamed, and finally shot...more than once to get this violent attacker off him. This fits the eyewitness account, and makes logical sense.

Least likely scenario:

Martin screamed repeatedly while Zimmerman pointed a gun at him instead of simply running away (he could most likely have outrun Zimmerman). Very hard to believe, and makes little logical sense.

The media and race baiters will do everything they can to taint the evidence and potential jurors in this case.

It is pretty obvious The Zimmerman family are well connected in the court systems, which is why no charges were filed....they thought this would blow over. I thought something was fishy when the detective, who did not believe Zimmerman's version of events and wanted to charge Zimmerman, was told no, by a state official. Don't they have city or county prosecutors, that normally make those kind of decisions?

If this went to trial, the theories and the protests would end.

Witness says it was Zimmerman that was screaming,

Zimmerman says it was him screaming.

Zimmerman has no charges pending against him,

End of story.

I understand why this case is reaching such national prominence-all the African-Americans claim it's reminiscent of the lynchings during the Jim Crow Law days. They say Zimmerman was an evil racist who just wanted to set an example of his social views. They say whatever they can say to get this case at the forefront of our minds. Do I support Zimmerman? No, but I don't think he deserves all these racial slurs and whatever else. He had witnesses supporting his story, and there's no evidence against him. Don't you think that a half Caucasian, half Hispanic man is going to get a little bit of racial prejudice himself? And do you really want to arrest the head of the local police department there for obstruction of justice because he hasn't found a shred of credible evidence suggesting that it WASN'T self-defense?

"On Feb. 26, Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, had called 911 to report a "suspicious" person and followed Martin against the dispatcher's advice."

A White Hispanic?? Does this make Prez B.O. a White Black??? The Whites in this country are being targeted and are in big trouble. They must pay for all the evil deeds of their ancestors whom they obviously had no control over!!!

Why are you white brags offended with Zimmerman's evilness, guilty for murdering Trayvon Martin in cold blooded few meters away from his house.

Are you the murderer or Zimmerman? Zimmerman is the murderer, then shut you racist with your hate comments against an innocent Trayvon Martin. All 911 tapes proves that Zimmerman is guilty, Zimmerman lied saying Trayvon was comming on him whiles speaking with the police at the same time he said the person Trayvon is taking the other way going, even saying that they always get away, which was clear that Trayvon was going to his house and Zimmerman was following Trayvon.

The police asked Zimmerman are you following him and Zimmerman answered yes, the police said we don't want you to do that. Zimmerman ignored the law, Zimmerman broke the law by ignoring the police authority.

Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin whiles talking to to police, we can all here on the 911 tapes his George Zimmerman's breath as he was following Trayvon during his call.

George Zimmerman's brother and his father are all lairs, Zimmerman's families and friends, the police reports, he's lawyer are all lairs from the first place. Zimmerman is a cold blooded murder.

Arrest George Zimmerman, all the evidence are enough and clear that Zimmerman is guilty and Zimmerman must face justice. Justice for Trayvon. Justice for all. Zimmerman is a cold blooded murderer.

If you're a racist brag, just shut up, George Zimmerman is guilty. We can't remain silence. Secondly Zimmerman was a convict and a convict had no right to carry a weapon.

Arrest George Zimmerman. Justice for Trayvon Martin.

I am Trayvon Martin.

@timetraveler & ron,

If Zimmerman said it, it MUST be true?

Lame, really LAME!

The MURDERER's "word" is beyond reproach!

ROFLFAO

Can't wait for the evidence to be presented and George to walk, then see what all you so called I am Trayvon morons going to say.

His dad is a federal judge why did the son turn out this way? If not this case, but his past?

Whoa, some lady assaults me like that for no reason and i will at the very least break her nose in self defense.

Khalid, your statement

connections like that can literally let you walk away with murder

is spot on ... and Zimmerman has gone through at least his adult life with getting away with almost murder, until now. He thought nothing of agrerssively confronting 2 police officers, the first one both verbally and physically. He was already in handcuffs when the second one was called, but still actively resisted arrest. He knew nothing would happen to him when the incident occurred, AND HE WAS RIGHT. He was let off with a misdemeanor charge and councelling with supervision for 18 months.

When he assaulted his ex-fiance, he knew once again that he would not be arrested and even counter-sued her for a restraining order when she got hers against him.

Fixing his speeding tickets was the least of his benefits.

There is a good article by the huffington Post, but is a very disturbing read.

"Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says".

some of the excerpts from it are:

Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer ... was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.”

“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

I wonder why he wasnt charged with assault against the woman he picked up and threw, causing her injury.

Since he has been a legal adult, there is a consistent pattern of violent over-reactions with Zimmerman. Assaulting police, fiance, customers, ... and what else. Only he and his family know what he did as a juvenile. How the hell did he own a gun given his publicly known temper and history of being too physically aggressive when he was mad.

Although Trayvon was merely a kid (who had turned 17 yrs old 3 weeks prior to his death), we know Zimmerman was upset with Trayvon just because he was walking on his turf and he didnt recognize Trayvon. Although Treyvon was not doing anything illegal, Zimmerman began to lose it and even let his racial comment slip while on a taped call with 911. Zimmerman must have become furious when Trayvon began to run home and almost got out of his sight since he then jumped out of his car and pursued Trayvon.

Given Zimmerman's history for at least the past (2012 - 2005 =) 8 years, possibly much longer, those who really knew Zimmerman knew how aggressively violent he could become. Add a gun to that equation (and the fact Trayvon's hands had no marks to indicate any fighting whatsoever), and we have a dead, innocent teenager, killed while begging for his life as he knelt on the grass after being physically accosted by Zimmerman. Zimmerman's response to Treyvon, who was guilty of nothing, begging for his life: ZIMMERMAN PULLED THE TRIGGER.

According to the funeral director, Trayvon had only one injury - the hole in his chest. He did not have an exit wound, even though Zimmerman supposedly shot him point blank in the chest. I guess Trayvon wasnt as close as Zimmerman claimed.

Zimmerman did not have injuries when he arrived at the police station (nor was he upset. In fact he was strutting like a rooster, proud of what he had done) .... if he has that broken nose and head injury now, perhaps someone wasnt pleased at what he had to clean up this time. Seeing he wasnt injured prior to that video of him in the police station, and that he refused to go to the hospital at the scene, I wonder what kind of medical records, and what dates they may have, are going to state. It will be very interesting to hear just what medical records his big brother was talking about.

The police dept and the state prosecutor who was at the police station that night with Georgie boy and who knows how many other "friends" may have alot of explaining to do to the world

Here is a link to the original article on the screams analysis proving Zimmerman wasnt the one screaming with more indepth details and the 2 analysts qualifications and experience. This analysis that was used by 1 analyst is used to successfully tract and identify terrorists and with much less than the sounds from those screams.

Morlack- It's easy for you to say, "Whoa, some lady assaults me like that for no reason and i will at the very least break her nose in self defense."

Whoa, that's bad advice to give a Black kid, if he did that he'd get shot; then the lady would get off for standing her ground. Nope, it's better to just take the abuse.

Will the media be held accountable for the riots that may occur?

Ever wonder if this is an attempt to curb neighborhood watch groups, or militias from power over their own neighborhoods? See how that's working in Syria? If the right of us to protect our neighborhood is taken away then we are in deep trouble. Maybe this is a sign that we need some education and fine tuning.

Recycled Hope...........I am not sure if your version is any more accurate than the Zimmerman version, but I do agree 100% that the Sanford PD and the State Prosecutor have a lot of explaining to do. What does or does not happen to Zimmerman will not matter in the long term except to Martin's family and friends, but the questions about why the Sanford PD and State Prosecutor took it upon themselves to grant amnesty in the case of a fatality where there were many unanswered questions needs to be answered. It is their job to make decisions that support justice and to have a judge or jury decide guilt or innocence. The PD took it upon themselves to make this decision, that is a violation of their duty and the trust placed in them. That issue needs to be addressed !

Rockyroad-531554....seems to me the Sanford PD and the State Prosecutor would share the blame in that.

So it has to all be a White conspiracy.. People are taken into custody then released uncharged every single day.. The police gathered the evidence including witnesses who stated George was on the bottom being beaten.. This was run by the county prosecutor who deemed it self defense with that evidence.. After they compiled more evidence it was sent to the state level and rejected as well.. That's an awful long list of conspirators.. So now a Black woman has been assigned to review this case through political pressure all the way from the top.. No conspiracy there but meddling? yes..

Will the media be held accountable for the riots that may occur?

Will the Sanford Police Dept. be held accountable for not doing their job?

Jane-2933244 --- Ahhh, No! We have had a neighborhood watch for more than 5 years and nobody, underline nobody, has been shot. We follow the rules and report. That is all. Neighborhood watch groups are not supose to be vigilantes, they are supose to be extra eyes for the police.

Khalid-2395974

We know from experience that if a black man kills say for instance a white woman and her white friend if the black man can play the race card effectively then he can actually get away with murder.

Did anyone notice that the officers said the black male was wearing a gray hoodie? Did anyone notice the witness said the guy in red was on the top? We all know that Zimmerman wore a red and black jacket that night. Which would make that Zimmerman on top which isn't self defense to me. Plus Martin was found FACEDOWN with his HANDS UNDER HIM, which would go more consistantly with running AWAY from Zimmerman not with fighting him. Which would blow his self defense theory and be more consistant with him being shot in the back perhaps? And YES it is possible to show the point of entry on a gunshot wound. See the point of impact would be different from the exit of the bullet. That also could tell us and add credence to Zimmerman's self defense claims OR COMPLETELY SHATTER them. What does the autopsy report say? Although the job was botched by SanFord P.D. because of Zimmerman's father's influence or just them plainly being inept, we still have the coroner's report and that is physical evidence when there is no other to be found. If that report is released and says that Trayvon Martin was shot in the back then I would say that George Zimmerman is a LIAR and has some explaining to do. Because as we all know you can't be defending yourself to someone's back. I want to know the point of entry on the gunshot wound.Either way his dad's influence ended when this became a national case. Because with the glare of the spotlight on it the vale of privacy is not POSSIBLE nor available to the Sanford police and anyothers working on their behalf to ensure that the case never sees the light of day. But I hope the influence costs Sanford P.D. a hell of alot more than the Bill losing his job. I hope Trayvon's parents take them for every last dime they could drag from them. I hope they sue Mr.Zimmerman personally(Let daddy pay that), and I hear they are suing the homeowner's association and I hope they get something out of them too. Either way someone should be made to pay for the death of this child literally since no one wants Zimmerman to pay physically.

The test were not done for law inforcement, They have their own results.

The test were paid for by the media to get a result that they could use to keep this money making story in the news.

No difference than two scientist working against each other on global warming,

you find for the side that is paying your bill.

Zimmerman's lawyer can get four of his own voice comparison done by experts that support Zimmerman but he has no need to do it because Zimmerman has not been charged with a crime.

. I hope Trayvon's parents take them for every last dime they could drag from them. I hope they sue Mr.Zimmerman personally

If Zimmerman's claim of self defense holds up(still no charges filed) he will be immune from civil prosecution as well.

Trayvon's parents did file for patents on his name so that they could sell T-shirts and other things.

They will make money of of this.

TaylorCaruso

Did anyone notice that the officers said the black male was wearing a gray hoodie? Did anyone notice the witness said the guy in red was on the top?

I noticed that you changed it around.

The witness, known only as John, told Sanford police that 17-year-old Martin was attacking Zimmerman before he fired the fatal shot. "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on [Zimmerman] was yelling to me, 'Help, help…' and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," John told Fox 35 in Orlando.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top [Martin] beating up the other guy [Zimmerman] was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." John's testimony could completely change the investigation if it is proved accurate.

Maybe you should look things up if you have a bad memory.

"On Feb. 26, Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, had called 911 to report a "suspicious" person and followed Martin against the dispatcher's advice."

A White Hispanic?? Does this make Prez B.O. a White Black?? The whites in this country are in big trouble. They are going to have to pay for the sins of their white ancestors whom they had no control over and didn't even know.

Can someone get away with multiple crimes if their dad is a judge, attorney, etc? Does the name Joran Van Der Sloot ring a bell? The guy that got off on killing Natalie Holloway but then ended up murdering another woman Peru. His dad was a judge and helped his son get rid the girl's body because without the body they would have no case against his son. So literally this guy's pandering parents helped him get away with murder.

It seems that some lawyers and judges get so consumed by legal technicalities that they apply it in all aspects of their life including parenting. They teach their kids that something isn't wrong if they can legally get away with it. They never give their kids any moral compass to live by (just because you can get away with it doesn't make it right) essentially raising children with no conscience. Add money to equation (which usually comes with someone in the legal profession) and you end up with a young adult with no value for life, money, humanity or anything. They're given whatever they want and have no consequences for their actions.

i think the findings here are extremely suspect, theres a lot of other evidence that it was zimmerman screaming (even if he did plan to and did commit a hate crime) i think cause some guy says its a 50% match doesnt mean its trayvon, right now the match to trayvon's voice is 0%. also when people scream they use different muscles in their throat, its not speech and isnt going to match. that said i dont think that means zimmerman is innocent, merely that this is just a gimmick by 2 people who want "justice for trayvon" and are willing to officially say "maybe" to get it

Eyewitness testimony doesn't mean squat. It is unreliable and can easily be challenged by any moderately competent defense attorney. The audio analyses are far more reliable than any witnesses and carry more weight in any prosecution, because they are scientific and verifiable.

That said, it's clear that Zimmerman was a hotheaded snot who had poor impulse control when angered. With his record of assaults, why in the hell was he allowed a concealed carry permit? Oh that's right, Daddy was a judge. The only civilians who apply for a concealed carry permit are candy-assed wussies who cannot handle themselves. Let one of these over-zealous "militia" or "neighborhood watch" fraidy-cats try to pull a firearm on me, and I will disable them before they can even raise their weapon to firing position. In close quarters, a gun is useless.

I have nothing but disdain for these right-wing airheaded sissys that suddenly become a big man when armed. Fry Zimmerman.

For a voice match (going by previous court cases) to be used in court you can't do the match only with the sample audio recorded from TV or other places if you want it to have validity. Otherwise you introduce massive numbers of errors more than you already have from the fact that it's a recording from a phone call. Microphones limit bandwidth, cellphones are designed to limit audio from a distance, and audio filters create distortions, not to mention a screaming in fear voice alters in tone. The investigators and potentially a future prosecutor would need to obtain a clean sample of Zimmerman's voice from Zimmerman then do the comparison in a lab such as the one used by the FBI (which in my opinion they already should have done!). Sounds like some more people looking for their 15 min of fame.

ya lets keep in mind that the best computers can barely be counted on to understand human speech fluently, this analysis is just a basic comparison of tone/pitch both of which are negated by the fact that its a scream, but just as with all the details in this case those who've already made up their mind will choose to believe whatever they want to believe.

Personally I am so sick of hearing about this case. This is a case that has the tapes doctored to make it look as more then it is, and sadly the media rather then be responsible and report a unbiased and true report has doctored the tapes to make it sound like more then it is. Now before people get in a uproar I am not saying this is not a sad and tragic thing, but unlike most people I am not a judge and I promise that no one other then the authorities has all the facts, so to be judge and jury, putting bounties on Zimmerman, and harassing people because of tweets giving out the wrong address is wrong.

Where is the outrage about the young men killed daily in Black American area's of town, why isn't the media paying more attention to this, there are children being killed every day. Why are not the civil rights leaders speaking out against this? The reason is because the civil rights leaders need this type of case to keep their jobs, the news does not care one little bit about a black American getting killed by another, they want sensationalism and to stir up controversy. And to have members of congress standing up as if this is their platform tells us how badly they are failing us, they should instead be talking about the price of gas, unemployment, and doing their jobs running the government.

What is happening in this is it is going to turn out like the boy that cried wolf; you can yell racism about everything for so long and sooner or later the public will quit caring, and this is when the people that have paid for advances in racial equality in their blood will find that they have spilt their blood in vain because all it turned out was that what they fought for was thrown away for political expediency and for journalistic ratings. Personally I am disgusted by it.

What the heck are you talking about?? Multiple eye witnesses that corroborate the man being attacked get trumped by a 50/50 guess from audio?? I listed to it, as well as the parents of both parties and I here an older man yelling with a bit of echo.. Trayvons parents when they first heard the scream said it was not their son and that is on the record.. Georges father said yes that was George the first time he heard it on the record.. Some time later, days or a week they change their story after talking to Jessey and Al.. Now we have a woman who made a statement the night of the incident to police changing her story for the news camera and bashing the police.. She was dressed up real pretty for her 15 minutes of fame.. Wonder how much she was intimidated or paid?? What came out of her mouth at the scene will most likely be the true story.. Same for the 13 year old that was walking his dog..

Are these the same two audio experts who manipulated the 911 recording in a effort make Zimmerman appear to be a racist?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

.

followed Martin against the dispatcher's advice."

There is no conclusive evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow, nor is there any evidence that he did not follow.

Eyewitness testimony doesn't mean squat. It is unreliable and can easily be challenged by any moderately competent defense attorney.

The police the night of the incident took the eye witness account as man in red on bottom man in hoodie beating man on bottom. Man on the bottom is screaming help me! That man did not know who Zimmerman was or who Martin was. Martin had no bruises - just a bullet wound.

For 4 weeks latter a witness surfaces to say man in red on top man in hoodie on bottom screaming.

Zimmerman says at the scene that he was screaming help me. Doesn't know there is a witness, doesn't know there is someone on the line to 911 which records the screaming. Police take the tape to Trayvon's Dad. That day Treyvon's dad says it's not his son's screaming. Four weeks later Treyvon's dad say it IS Treyvon's screaming.

We still have no witness to the beginning of the altercation! That is what is important, and also cannot be proved one way or another.

Common folks! Police doing crap is bad enough, but what good is it when the citizens pull worse crap!

One thing, I am black but I don't see this as a black/white thing, I see this purely as a entitled "my daddy was a (fill in the blank) judge/cop/etc. " type of thing. I know lots of folks who have used their connections to get their kids/family members out of trouble, and if it is minor, fine, but it concerns me that he has gotten away with so much with a slap on the wrist.

I have spoken to a friend who is a former judge and he said the following to me: he should be in jail due to the fact he didn't listen to the cops. He shouldn't have gotten out of the car either. Also I talked to a friend who is currently a juvie officer and she said the same thing.

@valhallaarwen

I have spoken to a friend who is a former judge and he said the following to me:  he should be in jail due to the fact he didn't listen to the cops.  He shouldn't have gotten out of the car either.  Also I talked to a friend who is currently a juvie officer and she said the same thing.

Do you really not read/listen to ALL the reporting, or is it that you cannot make your point valid without "choosing snippets" that skew the context? It has been reported over and over and proven that "he did not listen to the cops" was untrue because he was talking to a 911 operator who ADVISED, not ordered him that they did not "need him to do that" (pursue Martin), not the cops as so many keep repeating. This correction has been publicly proven so many times that when you insist on continuing to use it it just makes your argument that much more invalid. And ANY Judge, Former Judge, Juvie Officer who would say this is just as unreliable as you are.

What a crock, he was a neighborhood watchman, he saw a suspicious looking character and followed him. He called 911, they asked if he was following Trayvon, George said yes,the dispatcher said we don't need you to do that and George says okay. You people need to get over the idea that George went out thaat night and decided he was going to track down and shoot a black man.

That is insane and did not happen.

You are ignoring the facts. Martin's body was found a considerable distance away from Zimmerman's car. It is clear that Zimmerman ignored the advice of the police dispatcher and followed the boy. By following and confronting the boy, legal experts agree Zimmerman is disqualified from using Florida's Stand Your Ground statute as a defense, too. Zimmerman is in deep trouble.

"...he was a neighborhood watchman..."

Zimmerman was previously instructed not to follow or confront any suspicious characters...advice he steadfastly ignored. Sanford Police volunteer program coordinator Wendy Dorival, told the Miami Herald that she met Zimmerman in September, 2011 at a community neighborhood watch presentation. Dorival stated that she gave a warning with respect to vigilante behavior at that meeting: "I said, 'If it's someone you don't recognize, call us. We'll figure it out,' " Dorival said. "'Observe from a safe location.' There's even a slide about not being vigilante police. I don't know how many more times I can repeat it."

Zimmerman made mistakes for which he will pay dearly. He will be prosecuted.

Hispanic is NOT a RACE it is an ethnicity so you can be

Asian-Hispanic

White-Hispanic

or Black-Hispanic that is all there are 3 races and you guys sound like idiots saying you can't be a white- Hispanic.... You can't be a white-black because those are 2 separate races and you would by biracial or multi-racial... got it??

These are experts in the field, did you read the story? They said they couldn't identify it as Trayon's because they didn't have a sample

Why are you bitching at the journalism? Maybe it's your reading skills that are the problem

Wow.. going out of your way to defend a killer of a teenage boy. You need to do some soul searching.

Zimmerman is guilty and if he is not arrested there is going to be riots all over the country.

these were two PEERS who came to the same independent conclusion. the scientific methods have been explained using top of the line forensic voice analysis software that "doesnt care if you whisper, doesnt care if you yell" it has already been used to help convict a murderer from 2004 using bad audio quality.

if the voice wasn't a 17 year old screaming for help, it must have been the 2nd person that got killed.

BillLumbergh you live in a delusional world.

So there is to be no justice you say Kevin. Good way of thinking. Remember, justice goes all the way with having a trial before someone is guilty. But you don't care about being a hypocrite do you.

As for King, if it turns out it was in self defense, then too bad for the boy who died and then yes, Zimmerman should be defended. Perhaps you need to do some soul searching if you don't think that some cases it is an actual fact of life that a young person has to die because they were stupid and the other had to defend themself.

Jim, would you be bashing a so called expert if they said it was Zimmerman's voice? From your post, I am willing to bet you would.

there are NOT going to be riots all over the country over this crap but there may be some vigilante justice

Some of you posters down right make me sick. We have this for a reason, "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". Hope it's not some of you azzholes next getting into some type of situation and having to fight for your own life due to public predjuidice.

Voice recognition is not astrology.

If you expect something extremely technical that relies on statistical analysis to be immediately accessible, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Statistical analysis isn't a partisan topic. You're not going to get wildly different results from the same data set depending the different methods you use, if more than one method is permissible. You can't "buy" the statistical conclusions you want in the same way you can "buy" a medical conclusion from the right doctor.

I'm going to trust the experts. And yes, if the experts said the voice was almost certainly Zimmerman's, I'd be fine to believe that, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Since two have come to the same conclusions, I'm not holding my breath for that to change. In case nobody is aware, experts are very concerned about their reputation among the other experts in their field. When these two guys say it wasn't Zimmerman, they're putting their reputations on the line.

skrewdworld...

"Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". That applies to the Jury, not the Publics opinion...

The Jury found OJ "not guilty", but many in the Public believe OJ is Guilty and a Murderer...

"Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law".

Tell that to Trayvon Martin.

I have always hated that statement! How many "innocent" people do you see put in jail for no reason!? I understand the meaning, I'm just odd lol!

just got to ask everyone here which one of you saw what happen ? which one of you here was there? who in here has seen and heard all the evidence in this case? we has heard and seen all what the news wants us to yet we have already made up our minds as to what happen. we are doomed for sure if we are so blind as to act in this way.

The testing analysis needing at least a 90% match to show it is Zimmerman's voice reminds me of another biometric test that is done that can have up to almost 90% match which will prove it isnt the guy ... and it will keep him safe financially .... it is a DNA test to determine paternity. Without at least a 97% match, paternity can NOT be established. It is never 100% and the reason it must meet such a high percentage is because biologically (or if you prefer, biometrically) we are genetically almost identical. It is the very minor differences genetically that give us what we assume is a great diversity amongst ourselves.

We are so intrinsically NOT diverse enough due to a bottleneck in our genetic evolution traced back to approx 10,000 yrs ago. There were at least 6 other human races other than homosapiens, which include the neanderthals, that do not exist ecept for small amounts of their dna passed on. They were not separate species since they were able to successfuly mate with homosapiens (producing fertile offspring), but definitely more diverse than what we have in our human population today. Homosapiens may have been agressive enough to wipe out all the other competition for food and reproduction access that only traces of them reside within our DNA giving rise to what we now consider "diversity".

If 90% is the marker to dinstinguish that the voice is indeed NOT Zimmerman's, then it is indeed someone else. Since we know there were only 2 out there that night, logical conclusion makes it Trayvon's voice. Had there been 10 people out there, or even three, all we would know definitively is that it was NOT Zimmerman screaming. But, once again, it was only the 2 of them, hence it had to be Trayvon.

Have I repeated it sufficently, or do I need to continue repeating it until it sinks in??

R. Hope

only one think you have no way of knowing that there were only two people out there now do you unless you know something most of us don't.

tom,

please .... go read more than this article on this tragedy. Please keep up. This isnt the first article on this tragedy. In fact, there have been many over the past 2 weeks.

All accounts of all the 911 calls that night other than Zimmerman's specifically state 2 males out there before the shooting, that includes those who called because they merely heard it as well as those who actually dared to look out their window. The ONLY call initiated that includes the screams was from the lady who actually described what was going on out there in enough detail to include "the male on top is wearing a white t-shirt (remember also, Georgie boy specifically stated Trayvon was wearing a dark hoodie). Her 911 call is the one undergoing the analysis. If you read this story, it even stated only 1 call to 911 actually had the screams just prior to the shot. You can also hear that shot on that 911 tape.

Here, I shall make it easy for you .... I will give you the link for all the 911 calls and at 13 to 15 minutes into it, you will hear her for yourself and she definitely was there.

RecycledHope- Teach it again. I like it.

CherryTom- Let it go. You are backing a lame horse.

tom,

your horse isnt just lame .... its a quadrupalegic

and Thank You Mrperryrice for such an appropriately wonderful analogy.

Let's see, they used a recording of a recording of a cel phone from a distance that was echoing between buildings? And they got a 48% match to Zimmerman?

If it wasn't zimmerman, why was there any match?

@jac-931625

"Hey MSN - when are you going to get a current picture of what Treyvon really looked reently? You know, with the gold teeth and everything. But noooooo, you keep using these years old baby pictures, AND the 5 year old mug of Zimmerman. Biased much !?!"

@!$%# you

Recycled Hope: No, thank you because I didn't know how to understand the application of those percentages myself; but if you really want to thank me, teach it again so it can sink in. (Just joking). And now since the fat lady has all but sang, maybe we can stop all these race-hating acusations and place it on the one man it applies to in this case, the clear suspect Zimmerman.

@american-1155823 The age of the picture is irrelevant, and some the pictures that the racists have been posting are not Trayvon. Further, if you look at the other pictures that are confirmed to be him, such as his *REAL* facebook picture, he looks pretty much exactly the same. I've seen no actual evidence that the Hollister picture is old, only people screaming about it on comments. The kid had a baby face. Deal with it.

Yes he is a suspect and that is all.. This is why he was not arrested or jailed and it happens every day in the US.. If they had a solid point they would have arrested him by now but they do not.. If the young man was beating him while laying on his back and he discharged his weapon in self defense he was within his legal rights to do so.. We have already had several motiveless shooting in the past 2 weeks.. The news media is not displaying them so my thought would be that just like the rash of Black flash mob riots we had last fall they are being suppressed..

To those of you who have a problem with the pictures used, Zimmermans old police line up photo, and Trayvons recent photos, Had they used Zimmermans latest photo it would have been more damning. He now had an almost baldhead. It would have made him look like a skinhead and that would have further prejudiced this case against him. Atleast with hair he looks less white skinhead and more hispanic and non threatening. The video of him in cuffs in the police station garage make him look like a skinhead.

As for Trayvons recent photos, they are still of a juvenile male wearing all the clothing some young black males and white males wear. It does not make him a criminal just because he wears trendy clothes anymore than it makes one a lawyer bcause you wear a suit.

It is the way of you bigots to associate rap music and hip hop streetwear with crime. Adolf Hitler never wore street clothes and yet he was a criminal. Micheal Milken, and half the crooks on wall street stealing billions wear suits and never streeet clothes but they have white faces and nice suits so you do not suspect them. Most of the serial killers in history never sagged their jeans but I guess some of you still think a stranger is a guy in a long trench coat with shades on.......... naive fools.

Kevin S, you need a reality check on life. If you're not a negro, you are a white do-gooder, and white do-gooders only do good for making white and negro problems bigger than they already were. Why is it that only whites are racist and whites do EVERYTHING wrong? Get off your "high horse" and get real. You bring up Hitler and how he was dressed. Everyone in the world older than 8 years old knew who Hitler was, no matter how he was dressed. For you to compare how Hitler dressed to how negro males dress, shows how totally ignorant you are.

The Media is going to "beat this case"/Zimmerman vs. Martin to the ground.

There will be no true facts until Zimmerman is arrested (if he did it), and the other side, Trayvon Martin's Attorneys present this in Court.

All of the Articles put out recently, are called "SPECULATION". The only person who knows who did it is the idiot, Toure who appeared on The Piers Morgan program.

It is about time, we get real facts. Florida Investigators and others are waiting to find all evidence pointing to Zimmerman as being the Aggressor. If this case is screwed up like many others, Justice will not be served, because of the lack of facts.

Statically speaking the the sample of Zim voice is not large enough to come to a good conclusion.

Read the book on HOW TO LIE WITH STATICS

That Sean, is a bunch of BS. If you were unable to see two people and could only hear them talking you couldn't tell the age. You'd have a better chance by looking at their ear lobes. Nice try but...no.

Wow! You can't close your eyes, listen to voices and figure out who is a child, young adult, adult, or senior? You must have very poor hearing.

Twits your nuts and then let me know

You ever hear Micheal jackson?

Are these the same two audio experts who manipulated the 911 recording in a effort make Zimmerman appear to be a racist for the Today Show?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

.

So the two experts can not prove that the voice is Zimmerman's

and

they can not prove that the voice is Trayvon's

So why is it even a story?

If Zimmerman, the "Night Watch Vigilante" was BLACK, and Trayvon was WHITE....Zimmerman WOULD have been arrested.....no doubt ! A white man can kill a Black Man and get away with it in Florida, but a Black man can never get away with murer in Florida.........

Orlando,Florida, has a murder rate,per capita, which is HIGHER than New York City........Florida is a dangerous state, with just high school graduates as policeman.

I have always hated that statement! How many "innocent" people do you see put in jail for no reason!?

A lot. Especially minority people. You might want to look into the subject, he/she who seems to trust thou government so much.

What a stupid question.

Nonsense.. 45% match. You mean martin's voice then matches zimmermans 45%. I doubt it. Seriously they need to think before they open their mouths.

What does it matter how big or small Trayvon was? He who comes to a gunfight without a gun loses - period. As for this new evidence, of course it wasn't Zimmerman's voice crying for help! He wasn't the one who was stalked and killed in his own neighborhood - that was Trayvon.

On Feb. 26, Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, had called 911 to report a "suspicious" person and followed Martin against the dispatcher's advice."

A White Hispanic? Does this make Obama a White Black??? Whites in this country are really being targeted.....Whites must be paid back for all the evil they did in the past.

We can all have an opinion on this, but the truth is none of know for sure. I don't think any of us can say Zimmerman should be convicted on murder. I think what we want is for there to be a full investigation without any kind of coverup. That's the concern, that Zimmerman is being protected for whatever reason, and that's wrong.

As far as what Trayvon looked like or what Zimmerman looks like, it is irrelevent. It doesn't mean either is bad or good. What matters is the facts of the case.

Seems to me, even if Trayvon hit Zimmerman and even if he was on top of him the way Zimmerman said, it doesn't necessarily mean Zimmerman is innocent here. What if we change the scenario and Trayvon was at his home and Zimmerman broke in. Trayvon Knocked him to the ground and banged his head on the floor. If Zimmerman shoots him then, are you saying he would justified because Trayvon beat him? Zimmerman may have had reason to suspect him (recent break-ins), but he was wrong and even negligent for confronting him. I'm not saying Zimmerman should be convicted of murder, but perhaps manslaughter or at the very least reckless endangerment.

Watch Zimmerman contaminate back of his jacket evidence. Watch the video in police garage, view from front of sqaud car to back. Cop puts something in trunk, walks away, cops take eyes off Zimmerman for a second, Zimmerman takes a step back, leans back against wall, moves both feet forward, bending at the knees, pushes back against wall, cop tells him to come, Zimmerman handcuffed lunges off the wall forward, scuffing back of jacket which now looks like he was laying on his back being pounded on sidewalk as he claimed. Forensics will show paint on jacket from painted garage wall and NOT concrete from sidewalk. IF SOMEONE, contacts authorities about this! He may have scraped the back of his head, Zimmerman was in rt side of this video.

Whites in this country are really being targeted.....Whites must be paid back for all the evil they did in the past.

Oh Boohoo. Wait until you are scrutinized every time you go into a store. Wait until you are judged for the way you walk down the street. Wait until you have people lock their doors every time you go past. Wait until you have someone call the police because you "look suspicious". You have no idea how easy you have it, so stop playing the poor white victim. Why don't you make a friend of another race and maybe you will see what they go through every day. BTW, I am a white woman and even though there is still gender inequality, I consider myself lucky to not have to deal with bigotry on a daily basis. I was very close to a person of color in the past and it totally opened my eyes to how bad it is. Even now, at my place of employment I have heard many rascist remarks and gotten many rascist emails. It still goes on.

Since requests for more recent photos have gone ignored I suppose they won't care if we do our own research and find our own. After all, Fair;s Fair right? I mean, Zimmerman has been judged from day one based on the photo used to show the world his "character". This from Trayvon Martin's youtube page which was quickly scrubbed on advise from someone in his "camp" after questions that may have put him in a less favorable light started being asked. There is more info here #comments.

On Trayvon Martin’s YouTube channel

Unscientific? On what do you base this assessment? What experience do you have in the field of vocal identification? Seems like you've just been on the side of a murderer this whole time and you'll discount any damning evidence against Zimmerman. It's a computer based vocal identification program. Our voices are just like fingerprints, unique and distinctly our own. Zimmerman claims it is he who is heard screaming for help, the computer program designed to identify vocal "fingerprints" says otherwise.

@ bobs ur uncle

A drink does help... if your are having a heart attack a drink will thin the blood, dilate the blood vessels, bring down your blood pressure and help relieve anxiety. This is just ONE example on how a drink can help you live longer and science has proven this.

A good shot of whiskey has saved many lives!!!

Sean-336944...actually there should have been a lot of DNA evidence on that concrete sidewalk where Zimmerman claims his head was being smashed to within an inch of his life. There should also be some evidence from the blood from the broken nose on his clothes, the cop car, the paramedics vehicle, etc. There should be DNA evidence all over the place. No one gets their head banged against a sidewalk without leaving a lot of DNA. If Martin smashed Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk and broke his nose, then Martin's DNA should show up on Zimmerman and in the area where he supposedly beat Zimmerman, unless he was wearing gloves. Now we hear stories that Martin was going for Zimmerman's gun, has the gun been checked for Martin's fingerprints and DNA ?

I would be surprised if SPD even tested the sidewalk for DNA.

@MM

You're right, but it's been long enough that the evidence chain of custody is irretrievably broken. Any forensic evidence the prosecution collects can not be legally tied to the case. The defense will hammer on this.

Hopefully what little evidence the Sanford police did collect will be useful to the prosecution.

@VirginiaDemocrat78

How bout an A in statics. I do not need to hear his voice or use a program to get good results.

From hearing the tapes and not having Zim sit down and record his full range of vocals ( they should twist his nuts real hard) the sample is just too small to get good results. They never gave the error + or - What ?

could be 20

I am not saying he is innocent but I am going on Innocent until proven Guilty and not the other way around . So far I am still leaning towards innocent.

I just heard a news report that a Grand Jury is going to decide if this case should go to trial. At least that is a big step in the right direction. Let a jury hear all of the evidence and decide. They may not get it right, but at least they will get a lot of things out in the open and it will be according to the law.

Watch the Zimmerman video where he contaminates the evidence on his jacket. See video in police garage where view is from front of car to back. Zimmerman is in rt side of video. When cop puts something in his trunk and walks away, Zimmerman takes one step back, leans his back on wall, moves both feet forward bending at the knees he pushes back against the wall. Takes 1 1/2 seconds, cop looks at him and tells him to come, Zimmerman then lunges forward off the while because hands are cuffed, scuffing the back of his jacket to make it look like concrete scuff from his claim of being pounded on concrete sidewalk. May have scuffed the back of his head on wall at same time. Dna may be on wall. Forensics will show that the wall is painted white and it would be paint on his jacket, not concrete.

Hope someone checks this video out and des something about it.

I don't need any "new evidence" to believe what I've believed all along, and that's that something stinks in F-L-A and it isn't that Georgia paper mill north of Jacksonville. I can take race out of this incident and still have a problem with it and especially how the investigation of it was handled by Sanford law enforcement officials and I believe Zimmerman is deserving of manslaughter charges at the very least.

George Zimmerman's decision to become a self-appointed armed security officer (instead of a neighborhood WATCH) despite a near complete lack of security and self defense training resulted in an incident that took the life of an unarmed teenager. He deserves to have to answer for his actions in a court of law, since Trayvon Martin will never have a chance to answer for his, whatever they were.

No, it doesn't.

you are mad i am right...admit it

Just your response alone shows instead of knowledge, you wrap yourself in ignorance.

And you think you know what an analyst is King? Obviously you have no clue. What is basically an even split is not close to anything looking at all like a fact.

I really hope you are just trolling... but I get the feeling you actually have managed to misinterpret this. You should make sure you understand the implications of an analysis before ignorantly dismissing them; you just reflect your own ignorance, and worse, the way you flaunt it.

The tests are not saying it is a 48% chance of it being Zimmerman; they are showing a 48% match with Zimmerman's voice patterns. If this falls outside of the expected vocal range (which they claim that due to the audio quality should be around 90%) then this would infer that the probability of it being Zimmerman are extremely low.

To put it in context.... some varieties of chimpanzees share ~98% of their genome with human beings; meaning that their DNA is almost identical for the majority of its composition. This 98% does not indicate "percentage" of possibility; it represents the degree in which the two resemble each other. It would be like saying that there is a 98% chance the subject is chimpanzee, 2% chance they are human... for someone to make that sort of claim would just be idiotic.

In an ideal situation; the voice patterns would match up 100%; however, there is a margin of error due to quality and the overall sample size of the audio sample. As the specialists notes; this margin of error should not exceed 10% due to the audio samples. A score of 48% is SIGNIFICANTLY outside of this 10% margin of error (over 5 times).

Man.... I hope you feel embarrassed for posting such a painfully ignorant comment as if you had it all figured out.

Snot,

Actually, the program did not analyze for Trayvon's vocal patterns as he is dead and not able to supply a vocal sample with which to compare. All these experts and the computer program can say for sure is that it is not Zimmerman's voice. What does that prove? It proves that he's lied about at least one thing (he told police it was he that they heard calling for help in the recorded 911 call), which calls his entire story into question.

Has to be 90% or better to be Zimmermans voice, read the article...duh! There are other news sources with same story.

there are only two possible people who made those cries for help...if it is 48% zimmerman, then it better close to 52% trayvon...otherwise, the methods used are questionable...

Well, that's an unscientific way of looking at it. Unlike some people (that is, you), I am familiar with how statistical tests work. Statistical tests work on the premise of a null hypothesis. The null hypothesis in this case is that it is not Zimmerman's voice. Tests in this case that return a P-value of .10 (typically, it's .05, but I'm not the one who designed this system) or less indicate that there is a less than 10% probability that the voice could have come from any random person, which would reject the null hypothesis in favor of an identity. In this case, the P-value is .52 (1-.48, the probability of a match), which is far beyond the .10 threshold necessary to confirm the voice as Zimmerman's. Now, if we had a sample of Trayvon's voice, we could feed that through the software and see what type of P-value we could get. Note: I think getting three voice samples from each person (maybe there are videotapes from either his mother or father?) would improve the sensitivity of the test.

Snottyperson, the 48% figure has nothing to do with Trayvon Martin, get it through your skull.

No, it is not a 48%/52% split, come on people. I don't know what 48% means exactly, but the experts say they would expect a much higher % if it was actually Zimmerman's voice. I think a trial would help us figure out the truth. Make an arrest.

Snot,

You clearly are not an intelligent person. Were they able to test Trayvon's vocal patterns, he would likely get a 90% match or higher. Anyone's voice will garner something of a match as most of us have some of the same vocal patterns. Zimmerman only matched 48% because it was not his voice. The expert said that the recording is clear enough that if it were Zimmerman's voice, it would have garnered a 90% or higher match.

What it means is that ONLY 48% of the sampled information (which is different than the number of samples) are what would be expected if he voice was indeed Zimmermans. To put this in perspective, consier two identical twins (who have had no life experiences that impact the voice). Here a random recording would have over an 85% match for BOTH of the twins. Also there are likely to be thousands of people in the world who have similar voices and would have a mach rate above 75% Clearly one can not add the values.

note: My company has developed professional voice analysis softare that was certified for legal forensic use.

Snottykid - You are so wrong headed. It was either Zimmerman or Trayvon's voice screaming. Just because Zimmerman was a 48% match, that doesn't preclude the possibility of a 100% match if they were able to test it against Trayvon's. Duh!

Nice try though.

Snotty you are evidence that our educational system needs improvement.

Here's a question for you, if you're traveling at 80 miles per hour, how far will you go in an hour?

It doesn't make one little bit of difference what this "expert" says. His analysis will not be recognized in a court of law any more than the opinions of posters claiming to know everything about this analysis. All this "expert" has succeeded in doing is further inflaming the public, and those agreeing that "wow that proves it all now!!" are equally as wrong as the expert for putting this stuff out.

ChemPhD - good post. The dumbing down of America - it's scary.

skrewdworld

It doesn't make one little bit of difference what this "expert" says. His analysis will not be recognized in a court of law any more than the opinions of posters claiming to know everything about this analysis. All this "expert" has succeeded in doing is further inflaming the public, and those agreeing that "wow that proves it all now!!" are equally as wrong as the expert for putting this stuff out.

• !

#6.18 - Sun Apr 1, 2012 2:42 AM CDT

And please tell us where you bought your chrystal ball. How do you know this expert's testimony won't be used in court? How can you say his analysis will not be recognized in a court of law? This is scientific evidence and he is an expert in the field of audio analysis. Audio analysis is as much of a scientific field as DNA is. I really believe it is YOU that is attempting to inflame the public with your nonsense and failure to understand what scientific evidence really is. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it false.

skrewedworld,

Incorrect, this analysis is 100% admissible in court, and the testimony of these 2 experts will likely be heard in court. Nobody is claiming that this analysis "proves it all" however, it does prove that Zimmerman is lying about part of his story (he claims it was he that was heard screaming for help, not Trayvon) and thus, his entire story should be held to higher scrutiny.

some varieties of chimpanzees share ~98% of their genome with human beings; meaning that their DNA is almost identical for the majority of its composition. This 98% does not indicate "percentage" of possibility; it represents the degree in which the two resemble each other.

SnottyKid=Missing Link?

There is the eye witness that says it was Zimmerman calling for help. I guess he could be a racist who got together with all the corrupt cops and paramedics at the scene who all put their careers on the line to corroborate Zimmerman account of events that he fabricated in the minutes before they showed up.And it could very well be that Trayvons dad initially said "that's not my sons voice" because he did not understand the question. Or the expert voice analysists tests could be inconclusive because they only had one of the two voices for comparison.

They are NOT inconclusive about the fact it was NOT Zimmerman's voice. It is inconclusive about whether it is Trayvon's voice since they can't compare it to his voice YET.

A simple video cam recording of a holiday/birthday/vacation, phone message or voice chat by Trayvon saved by a parent or friend on their cell phone, answering machine or computer would provide enough of a sample to determine if it was indeed Trayvon's voice.

Let me repeat what I posted above:

If you were taken to court for a paternity test for child support, you would celebrate if you had a 48% match to the child in question .... it means you ARE NOT the father.

20 of you could line up and take a paternity test for this child ... you could each get about an 80% to 85% genetic match, then go out as a group celebrating that NONE of you are the father. Even a 97% match leaves some questions about paternity, but there is NO way to get a 100% match. That is genetically impossible to obtain.

Actually, you same 20 can also submit voice samples to these analysts and match up with the voice screaming between 45% and 85% and still know you arent the one screaming in that tape .... without at least the 90% MATCH (not chance, but match), you are not the one who was screaming.

This science is 70 yrs old now ... and so sophisticated that they use it to identify with certainty terrorists and can apprehend, charge and convict suspected terrorists based upon this type of analysis. Same goes for murderers.

And Georgie boy didnt think there was any evidence to challenge "his story". And daddy dearest had no way of knowing there was actually evidence they couldnt "adjust".