I think we're going to find out at some point that the police have high res images of zims injuries.

Martin's injuries were far worse. No digital enhancement needed.

I think we're going to find out at some point that the police have high res images of zims injuries.

They better, else it shows gross misconduct on their part.

In addition, I don't think many people feel that the video is clear evidence that Zimmerman had NO injuries (there have been a few posting here, but that's wishful thinking on their part and they are incorrect) just that his injuries were not as severe as his story would lead one to believe.

This is something I found today.

Anytime I hear the phrase "enhanced video" I immediately think of this (window #2):

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1156

How can you be so sure Borealis? I haven't seen any video of Martin's injuries to prove that they were severe enough to be fatal...

You are 5 hours behind on the higher resolution pictures they were on GMA this morning. Shows damage to the back of Zimmermans head in two places. And What more do they want the feds to do they have had an investigation in place for 2 weeks now.

You are 5 hours behind on the higher resolution pictures they were on GMA this morning.

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1156

see pane #2.

My problem is this, if Zimmerman is proven to have acted in self defense, that everything he said is true and all the proof is layed out in a court of law and a jury finds him not guilty, how long before he is killed? Does anyone think martain would have attacked anyone knowing they had a gun? If he was such a thug as some would try to say, wouldn't he have a gun? he was yards from home and thought he was being followed, had called his Gf worried about it. Who was really standing their ground?..Martin or Zimmerman? Who was crying out for help? and whos dead?

Interesting clip! Thanks.

Now, somebody please show a recent picture from the "victim". That too would provide some clarification instead of portraying him as the innocent little guy.

So what if Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked? You just have no right to produce a situation where you feel you need to use the gun you are carrying. Zimmerman was told to back off and instead he escalated his unprovoked activities. He made reference to color in this case and he doesn't seem to be able to stick to one story. Having his father speak for him really makes me smell a rat. Like he is getting coached on how to present his version of reality vs what really happened. He obviously is attracted to positions of authority which makes me wonder if the gun was affecting his ego. He should get his day in court but it should be a court and jury that thoroughly sifts through the evidence. Picking a fight when you are armed does not qualify as standing your ground and using the gun because you are losing doesn't justify what is at least manslaughter. Just let him go before a jury, like almost everyone else would. With all the publicity, they may not be able to find an impartial jury.

If Martin had jumped Zimmerman while he was walking back to his car why was the crime scene so far from the road between two rows of houses?!?! If Martin had been slamming Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk, why was there no sign of any hair or blood on the sidewalk?!?! If Martin had been pounding on Zimmerman the way he claims then why did the funeral director report that there were no signs of any bruising, scraping, or injuries on Martin's knuckles?!?! If you hit someone with your bare fist, your hands are going to get messed up, there is no avoiding it!!! Nothing about any of the many variations of the story that Zimmerman has told about the events adds up when you take a critical look. I also do not put a lot of faith in many of these so-called witnesses because to them Zimmerman is one of them and Martin was an outsider - they will try and back up one of their own. Several witnesses have already backed off or modified their statements after being questioned about inconsistencies, admitting that they did not actually see what happened or how the confrontation went down. They were parroting what Zimmerman had told the occurred, filling it in with what they thought they heard of the struggle. A couple of people have claimed they heard Zimmerman screaming for help, which has no been debunked. I think a lot of these witnesses want this to just go away as much a Zimmerman and the Sanford police do. Luckily the FBI and Justice Department are not about to let that happen.

huh?

They will not charge him because taking a case to trial and not getting a conviction makes prosecutors look bad. They will avoid charges because all of the evidence is on Zimmermans side. A conviction is very unlikely and they know it.

it is not enough that zimermann is tried and convicted of at least manslaughter.

castle and stand your ground laws have been used since day 1 to protect gang members and abusive spouses. they must be repealed.

if lax guns laws were the solution to gun violence, then lax anti violence laws would be the solution to every kind of violence.

I love when people call for a boycott from the very site they are boycotting. Not real clear on what a boycott is huh Ed. LOL

Please, does anyone know just where Martin was shot? Back, front, head, stomach, heart? haven't heard as yet of where and how close to Zimmerman?

I hope the Casey Anthony jurors aren't called into this one

Martin was shot in the chest at close range.

Softdude

thank you for the post. I mean seriously this is the most obvious case of negligent manslaughter ever but daddy gotta bail Zim out of another jam. I'm all for having guns but we shouldn't give them to vigilantes with a history of violent and reckless behavior. plus no one who defends Zimmerman's behavior seem to think what it would be like from martins perspective they point out the robberies but what if Trayvon new about the robberies and thought Zimmerman might be the robber and was going to mug him if he didn't run (which Trayvon was running from Zimmerman as Zimmerman stated in his 911 call)

What will a recent picture prove? If he is dressed a certain way does that change your opinion? or does it change the fact of the matter that he was UNARMED!!

How many remember the OJ trial? How many were sure OJ was guilty? The OJ trial lasted almost 8 months, and the jury that decided they had their reasonable doubts deliberated a mere 4 hours. The verdict was widely celebrated throughout the black community and seen as a failure of the judicial system everywhere else.

Obviously Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson learned nothing from their rush to judgement in both the Tawana Brawley and Duke lacrosse cases. Their actions seem more about staying relevant. They have made their living off the civil rights movement and racial tensions. Do you really think they want to see that end?

Our system of justice is simply not perfect. It might even be true that as Johnny Cochran said the color of justice is green. But there is no place for vigilante behaviors, bounties, or inciting violence. The difference between civilized and uncivilized societies are the adherence to laws and a judicial process. I think what this case might prove more then anything else, is the desperation of 24/7 news reporting. Where if you cannot find it, coax it along.

Black community: "Wolf!!!"

It's going to be too bad when there really is a case of racism, the black community cries "Wolf!" yet again and nobody listens because of stuff like this.

And how does the Justice Department justify all the money being spent on an FBI investigation when his call didn't make any mention of race until he was prompted? Yet there is clear video of a black man standing at a polling station with a ready billy club and Black Panthers attire and he's fine. OK, we get it Mr. Holder.

Softdude

So what if Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked? You just have no right to produce a situation where you feel you need to use the gun you are carrying.

You have EVERY right to defend yourself, up and including lethal force if your getting your ass kicked.

Zimmerman forced this action. He was not to carry a gun and he was told to stay in his car and not to pursue Martin. Cut and dry.

The only person thus far that has described George Zimmerman as having his head bashed in to the pavement repeatedly is his brother. If those were the kind of injuries he sustained, the paramedics would have taken him to the hospital for scans of his brain. They called off the second ambulance because they didn't think his injuries warranted treatment in the emergency room, so, based on that fact, it's impossible that Zimmerman described the cause of his head injuries as being the result of having his head smashed against concrete. The other thing that's interesting is the shape of the injuries themselves; they look to me more like someone was clawing at his head--the injuries are long, thin and close together--two fingers, perhaps, trying to gain traction and shove someone off of them. That type of injury would not require a CAT scan or an MRI and could be described as a superficial abrasion. Note that the EMTs didn't even feel the injury necessitated a bandage. Additionally, they may look worse than they are due to the fact that scalp injuries result in an unusual amount of blood. At any rate, whether or not a blunt trauma injury would present itself in that way would be a question for a forensic pathologist, but as many astute posters above have indicated, Zimmerman needs to be arrested first.

Phil

not if you purposefully place yourself in that situation(Zimmerman CHOOSING to chase Trayvon when trayvon started running from him and please note Zimmerman isn't a cop and they told him persuit was not needed and since zimmerman says he is a member of the watch he would know NEVER to chase a suspected individual so he had no business chasing him and running isn't a crime if people are going to say following then chasing someone isn't a crime) man Phil you took one piece out of his whole post and ignored the rest.

If someone provokes an incident like Zimmerman did how in the world can he be inocent, talk about a lack of common sense, the Kid did nothing that anyone else would not have done or is it because he was BLACK that he did not have the same right as a WHITE person ......

if Zimmerman was a wanna be cop he wouldn't have to be told how to describe a person of interest, he would have called out their skin color as part of a description. As a matter of fact when I worked security we were trained on how to give descriptions and skin color is one of the one that you should always use when describing someone to a police type authority so that they can put out an APB or broadcast they are looking for someone - you also use identifying marks (tattoos, peircings, glasses, scars, birthmarks) if you are close enough to see any of those things. Calling out on his reports that a black person was the cause doesn't make him racial. It makes him descriptive, if those other calls were white people and he said caucasian or white, or hispanic on those tapes then it's just his style of taking down a description. This story is off in left field once again. Let the authorities do their jobs please and report when they have findings.

@Phil-673730

Are you kidding me! You follow a guy around, provoke him and if he responds by protecing himself, you pull out a gun and shoot him. This Mr. Z guy has a history and real attitude problem.

He made reference to color in this case and he doesn't seem to be able to stick to one story.

@softdude - Zimmerman made reference because he was asked by the dispatcher. Zimmerman did not bring up race.

This is why racist people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee, etc. all need to shut up and wait to hear the facts. Things are being so twisted by these fools.

Unless you started it.

If Trayvon did injure Zimmerman... Good! If someone was following and stalking me with a gun, I might feel inclined to defend myself too. If you support the "stand your ground" law then you have to defend Trayvon's right to use it, too! Double-standard, hypocrites.

Jo Ann

Police asked for the race so they could now what the suspected person looked like how else would they know what he looked like?

I guess punching someone in the face, knocking them to the ground, and pounding their head against the pavement has become a civil right in the last month or so.

Yeah, gotta' protect people's rights to do that, for sure.

Trayvon is the one who is more inclined to be defended under the stand your ground law he ran Zimmerman followed Trayvon did not know who Zimmerman was so he stood his ground and defended himself Zimmerman chased someone and escalated the conflict and blew it way out of proportion with his negligent actions therefor he should at least be charged with a definite probability of conviction for negligent manslaughter. thank god people can see that from some of the comments on this post.

Rustyboy, zimmerman was able to cary his gun, he was returning from the grocery store, he had a permit to carry a concealed weapon, he saw a suspicious person, and if you read the law, you can instigate a situation, or confront someone, if they attack you, and you are in fear you may use deadly force, ITS THE LAW, read up on it if you dont believe me, those wounds on the back of his head do support his story, plus when they release the EMT report, i bet they do too. Accept the facts, not peoples opinions. DUE PROCESS

@Phil

It comments like that which make kids think it's okay to take a gun to school and shoot everyone. And you know what that stuff wasn't happening when my father or probably yours went to school. You may have every right to defend yourself, you don't have EVERY right to kill. There is a line, and Zimmerman cross it.

oh, pshaw. Guess there are no real men out there anymore. If a grown man can't defend himself and has to use a lethal weapon then he is just a puss.

J. Merle Stanley-2759623

I guess punching someone in the face, knocking them to the ground, and pounding their head against the pavement has become a civil right in the last month or so.

Yeah, gotta' protect people's rights to do that, for sure.

SO you were there and know this to be fact? LOL! Hardly.

zoroaster had this to say:

How can you be so sure Borealis? I haven't seen any video of Martin's injuries to prove that they were severe enough to be fatal...

You don't need video--the child is dead. He had injuries severe enough to be fatal.

The point here is that pretty much everyone has admitted that there was a "scuffle" between the two because that is what the 911 calls said. We know there was something of a scuffle. It appears that Zimmerman did get his head bashed a bit--it does not look any worse than a couple of scrapes, he is not walking as if he is hurt, and he sure as heck isn't walking as if his nose is broken (when one's nose is broken--it hurts, and ignoring a broken nose is really hard).

That we are having to enhance the video ourselves is the issue--pictures should have been taken of Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had his head pounded on the sidewalk so badly that he feared for his life, then there should be an X-ray from the hospital because he should have feared a concussion. If Zimmerman had his nose broken, there should be an X-ray from the hospital showing the broken nose. That evidence could have been made public by the man's attorney immediately, and there would have been less (though not no) controversy. That there are no X-rays lets you know that there was no fear of a possibly fatal injury (a person who actually had his head pounded on the sidewalk really could have died several hours to a day later)--and the lack of evidence, given that Zimmerman's dad would know this and apparently did not want any evidence to prove that there were no major injuries, tells us quite a bit.

Zimmerman claims he was jumped while getting back into his vehicle--if so, why was the dead body found so far away from the vehicle, in between two houses in the back yard of one? If Zimmerman got his head pounded so badly near the vehicle that he feared for his life, why did he then chase the suspect, putting himself into "more" danger so that he "had to" shoot him?

There is absolutely no reason to believe Zimmerman's account that he was completely blameless. Yes, there was a scuffle. Yes, Zimmerman got his pretty head bumped. Yes, Zimmerman chose to put himself in a situation which ultimately caused him to "fear" for his life--more because he has an innate fear of young black males (yes, a person who is Hispanic and white--remember that "Hispanic" is an ethnic group and "white" is not only a race but the race that Zimmerman self-identified as) than because he actually had reason to fear.

Many people who like to defend Zimmerman clearly share his ridiculous fear of young black males--especially young black males in hoodies who like rap music and cop an attitude--which might not make them "racists" in the sense of the KKK, but which does make them "racists" in the sense of African-American-phobia. The fear of an entire group of people is, itself, racist.

Yes, this means there are a lot of African American racists--but in the case of African Americans, its a little like saying that just because a person is paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get him/her. There is more tangible evidence for African Americans to fear white people and particularly the police--but they still should not fear everyone who is white or has a badge, and yes, it is a problem that also fed into this situation. If Trayvon had called 911 instead of his girlfriend, then 911 could have said: "hey, guy, are you chasing a kid in a grey hoodie? If you are, he is unarmed and going to his dad's girlfriend's house."

Still, clearly, Trayvon had a good reason to be terrified of cop-wannabe Zimmerman, and Trayvon is dead.

If it were not for the stupid "Stand Your Ground" law, then Zimmerman would have been arrested. One would hope that a better investigation would have been done--but given his father's interference, perhaps not. There are two levels of problems here--the first is Zimmerman's assumption that all young black males are dangerous and the number of people who are willing to agree to that assumption without remembering the old joke about assuming things. The second is that Zimmerman's dad pulled strings--how quickly did Zimmerman call his dad, by the way? There's a phone record I'd like to see. So, it's a bit racism and a bit of the way children of the elite class get away with murder.

You know--if Zimmerman's name was "Kennedy"--I have to wonder if people would be quite so vociferous in their defense of him.

But, yes, I expect that Zimmerman will get off. This does not make him innocent. This makes him the beneficiary of his dad's interference, the inactions of the police, and the act that our judicial system is easily manipulated by people of the upper class so that they never get convicted as there is this presumption of innocence . . . a presumption made to be such a high bar by the Stand Your Ground law that people can easily get away with murder now.

Here's what the Zimmerman case has just taught racist whites (and there are a lot of them in Florida). If you want to get away with killing the young black men in hoodies and drooping pants that you see as an imminent threat, just follow them and make them feel threatened. When they turn and threaten you back--which is an instinctive reaction on the part of males, by the way--wait until they have messed up your pretty face, pull your gun, and shoot them dead. You can't be convicted . . . heck, you can't be arrested.

Here's what the Zimmerman case has just taught young black males--you can be followed, you can be accosted, you can be verbally taunted--and you can't do anything about it. In particular, you cannot choose to use what might be construed as deadly force even though you have been accosted and threatened with a weapon because the Stand Your Ground law won't cover you. You have to cower like a slave in the antebellum period and hope that the person accosting you doesn't choose to scrape his own hands on the sidewalk and scrape his own head on something rough after shooting you dead. You have to hope this because the police will assume that as a young black male, you deserved to be followed and were in fact a threat.

No--this doesn't sound like a good thing to me. If it sounds good to you--then you are in fact a racist of the African-American-phobic variety even if you aren't a KKK-style racist. Have a great day in any case.

EBC, if you compare the two videos that mark on Zimmerman's head is not there in the old one nor is it there before they show that specific image. The first video is crappy but there is no way you would miss something like that unless it was recorded on a potato (sorry YouTube insider joke), unless it was recorded on a camera from the 80's.

I cannot say with certainty however it looks like all they did was over sharpen the video. This can cause visual artifacts. Again I am not saying that his new video is not true however if you look at the old video, the section of this new video just before the "zoom in" and the end of that video that red mark NEVER shows up again and that is suspicious given the size of the injury they show.

Let's examine the footage and I will show you that the one time it is shown is the ONLY time that mark appears:

From the beginning of the video when Zimmerman first gets out of he car:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/Geowil/zim1.jpg

Now here is a clip from just before the switch to the newer enhanced version:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/Geowil/zim2.jpg

In neither of these is there even a hint of red at all. Now look at this image:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/Geowil/zim3.jpg

See how large that wound is? Why is it no visible in EITHER of the two pictures above? Also notice how messed up that cop's face it.

Finally the most damning one because it is the closest view of his head:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a367/Geowil/zim4.jpg

Look at the pic of the injury again, the red line stretches far enough that it ends around the side of his head. In the image above we can see where that injury should end at and even a little of the back; it is not there.

So why are there all of these discrepancies if this video is factual?

Subliminal, is your position that somehow Martin being a gang banger justifies Zimmerman gunning him down? Should we all be allowed to go gun down the gangs then and take the law into our own hands?

softdude:

He didn't reference color. The dispatcher ASKED him the color of the person. Following someone is not picking a fight either. No one knows what happened, but judging by the laceration to the back of his head, I am guessing he was at the worst end of a beat down by a 6 foot 1 teenager.

Stick to the facts, not doing so only shows you are race baiting.

JS:

If Martin had jumped Zimmerman while he was walking back to his car why was the crime scene so far from the road between two rows of houses?!?!

Hmm key word walking back, does not mean he was anywhere near his vehicle when jumped. That is an easy one.

If Martin had been slamming Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk, why was there no sign of any hair or blood on the sidewalk?!?! If Martin had been pounding on Zimmerman the way he claims then why did the funeral director report that there were no signs of any bruising, scraping, or injuries on Martin's knuckles?!?! If you hit someone with your bare fist, your hands are going to get messed up, there is no avoiding it!!!

1st part there can be several reasons, 1 pictures of the sidewalk have not been released and 2 just because you pound someone’s head into flat concrete does not mean there will be any signs of it, except on the backside of someone’s head.

2nd part pounding on Zimmerman the way he claims then why did the funeral director report that there were no signs of any bruising, scraping, or injuries on Martin's knuckles. Your knuckles will not show any signs of bruising, scraping or injuries if you punch someone in a cartilage nose and then using your hands not fist to pound someone’s head into the concrete.

3rd parts a couple of people have claimed they heard Zimmerman screaming for help, which has been debunked. Might want to look up the software they used and the voice prints they used. Sorry to say you can't why they have not released **** about them. So it could be as easily as the software is faulty or that it can’t determine the difference from someone screaming to talking normally. Sorry to say computer software can be wrong. Just like a polygraph they can be wrong so they are not able to uses them in a court of law.

flyernutz

so its okay to start a fight and when it turns out your losing that fight its ok to pull out your concealed gun and shoot a person? wow you have what you are right in your own profiles name nutz!

Instead of investigating a possible local crime, why isn't the FBI busy investigating the flagrant federal crime of the Black Panthers offering a $1 million bounty on a citizen who has been neither arrested nor convicted of a damned thing?

How many were sure OJ was guilty?

OJ is more white than he is black. Athlete, sports broadcaster, commercials and actor.... he was a trusted name that identified more with the white community than he did the ghettos.

Don't even try to compare the two...OJ was a man who was arrested for killing and eventually set free. Zimmerman, on the other hand, was a man set free without getting arrested for a killing.

For the record...set free doesn't necessarily mean he was innocent.

Derek so i can chase you(yes Zimmerman was chasing trayvon as said in the 911 tapes i mean for @!$%# sake listen to those before you make a comment Jesus Christ) through the back yards of peoples houses and harass you(yes stalking and chasing someone is a form of harassment which is ILLEGAL) but when you try to defend yourself that gives me the OK to kill you? wow what a world you live in.

I hate to tell you TNRebel, but you are either lying or have no clue what the law is.

What was Zimmerman folling the for in the first place? If zimmerman had followed me he would have gotten shot. What does O.J have to with this ? It,s sad but spouses kill each other everyday. EVERYDAY an unarmed black male is killed by the police. Zimmerman is just idiot with a gun. A stranger following me is going to get shoot.

EBC

so you want to live in a world were you can chase harass and stalk someone and when they try to defend themselves that gives you the okay to kill them!?

what kind of @!$%#ed up world do you guys think justifies that!?

i mean seriously especially since trayvon had no gun, no knife, no burglary equipment, all he had was a bag of skittles and an ice tea.

what the hell is wrong with you people that seem to think that kind of law hell that kind of world is okay!?

Name1

I think you are taking flyernutz comments out of context. If someone picks a fight with you and you fear bodily harm, yes, you can use your lawfully concealed weapon to "diffuse" the situation. I see no where in his comments that you instigate the fight just to shoot someone.

Mike-416

J. Merle Stanley-2759623

I guess punching someone in the face, knocking them to the ground, and pounding their head against the pavement has become a civil right in the last month or so.

Yeah, gotta' protect people's rights to do that, for sure.

"...........SO you were there and know this to be fact? LOL! Hardly..........."

No I wasn't there. You jack ass.

But an eyewitness was, and he says Martin was beating Zimmerman up

Go argue with him.

By the way, I see nothing about this story that deserves an "LOL," as there is nothing to laugh about here.

But then again, to those of you who want nothing more than to burn Zimmerman for protecting himself, this is all a big joke.

Isn't it?

Why do people point out all these other crimes they're all crimes therfor they should have a punishment what the hell do they have to do with this one!?

If such an altercation was present and Martin did attack Zimmerman, then, under the "Stand Your Ground" law, it would be Martin's actions, NOT Zimmerman's, that would've been justified under that law; the fact that Zimmerman wasn't wearing some kind of mark/clothing to show that he was an official just adds more to the problem. If someone like that came out of nowhere and didn't identify himself in any shape or form, then hell yeah I would've run and fought if needed. Even though Martin was not armed with a weapon, he most likely was doing what he could to escape Zimmerman, and may have bashed Zimmerman's head on the ground hoping to knock him out and run to safety.

Another possibility is that Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted to add credulity to his story.

merle stanely

again is say Zimmerman put himself in that situation if he believed he would not be able to handle it without using deadly force then he should have stayed in the damned car and let the police do their job a gun is used when the situation is forced on you not when you force it on a 17 year old kid by chasing him through back yards. please for once try to see it from trayvons perspective since we can't get it from him because he is dead.

OJ was black, Zimmerman is seen as white. The black activist community always supports their own. To them it is not a matter of guilt or innocenceit is simply Black and White. Of course The DOJ is involved. Heck even President Obama has choosen sides on this evidenced by his statement " If I had a son he would Look Like Treyvon."

thank you kristopher!! thank god there are still people like you with some common sense left in the world!!!

bubba-1946427

If Zimmerman didn't kill Trayvon because he was black I want an apology form all the BLACK racists out their.

As soon as all you white racist apologize or better yet I'd settled for a few or your ilk accosting and stalking me.

Travon's buddies Julius Bender and Yahaziel Israel just got busted in Sanford for using a hammer to almost beat to death a 50 year old guy. I wonder if Jessee and Al are going to scream police brutality because they were put in jail. Why this isn't making the news? Oh because the kids are black. What is Sanford the murder mecca?

Police asked for the race so they could now what the suspected person looked like how else would they know what he looked like?

@name 1 - Exactly. I was correcting another poster who claimed that Zimmerman was the one who brought up race.

Al Sharpton is the one bringing up the untruths before looking at the facts.

What's going to happen is that if anything is produced proving that Trayvon Martin did something wrong racist people like Al Sharpton will say that it was doctored or fixed.

Ron please site a source that shows this and has proof that the 2 kids were trayvons buddies and for Christ sake please don't use facebook.

Jo Ann

personally i don't even care about the race stuff but Zimmerman is still guilty(or at least has enough evidence to be charged with the crime) of negligent manslaughter based on his actions that were unnecessary as the cops said to him directly in the 911 calls.

After reading several comments I have this to say. Zimmermen was not in a struggle because when you see the video his shirt is still tucked in and his appearance was very neat that is clear. As far as OJ he didn't kill because of race, he killed out of jealousy. Also any can commit a hate crime, if you kill because of someones race and only their race. One more thing can we stop with the ignorant racial comments all the Martin family is asking for is a arrest for the wrong that was done to their son.

Thanks steve dont get whats wrong for asking for justice these days, and seriously i think people bring up stuff like the OJ case just as an excuse to let crap like this slide which makes no sense cause 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Also Ron im still waiting for that source. was it facebook Ron? you can admit it if it was i wont judge you as harsh if you do.

So did the dispatcher also ask Zimmerman if Trayvon was an "f'n coon?"

sarah

i did hear that in the 911 call but it was too muffled up to be 100% certain if thats what he said or if it was just heavy breathing. they need to try to clear it up so we can be sure. sounded pretty damned close though. but he clearly di say these a-holes always get away like there was no dought in his mind trayvon was up to something even hough he had no real reason to be

All the people that are saying there's no sign of hair or blood on the sidewalk....first off from what I can see in Zimmerman's pics his head is shaved so no hair if any would be left.....second was it not raining that night? Hence all the 'hoodie' hype going on. Also from what I've read it took like 10 mins for the cops to get there, even in a light rain could the blood that was on the sidewalk not be washed away, after all it was fresh and the 'fight' happened when it was still raining so could the blood not have been washed away?

As for the Black Pussy Party they and their backers should be charged and arrested for incitement to hatred and incitement to murder...as that was their intent in putting up the 'wanted: dead or alive' poster

Son-of-Anubis

it doesnt matter if they fought trayvon ran away from zimmerman before any fighting even took place zimmerman chased him so in this case zim was the agressor and trayvon was standing his ground. trayvon not zimmerman should be covered under the stand your ground law.

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE: ABC< NBC< CBS< MSNBC< MSCBS< MEDIA MATTERS< DOJ< Black Panthers< President Obama< Jesse Jackson<Al Sharpton<Liberals<Democrats have convicted George Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. He has been found guilty and will be sentenced to death as soon as possible. No undue appeals will be provided.

TNRebel

EBC says your lying because your facts and personal experience don't match his uninformed and inexperienced opinion which in his mind makes it a lie.

Ron i am still waiting for that source.

The question isn't Zimmerman's injuries, the question is, did Zimmerman provoke the attack? If he did, then his claim of self-defense goes out the window because he initiated it and Martin had the right to defend himself. We don't know how this fight started, all of the witnesses are witnesses to the fight after it begun. Do people have a right to start a fight and then when they begin to lose that fight, pull out a gun and shoot an unarmed person? If it's proven that those screams for help are not Zimmerman's, then they must be Martin's by default. Which means that Martin was subdued before he was killed and who started the fight no longer matters. It means Zimmerman had negated the threat and then ruthlessly killed Martin.

EBC-3901100,I will not that Obama is the first black/white president only a DNA test could prove that,but he is a black/white president,so what is your point in making that statement?.

It does not make any difference if Zimmerman or Travon were racist,the question here is how you can follow someone,Zimmerman's own words,kill them and yell self defense, it does not make any difference what either ones skin color was.

I'm of mixed race. If I'm on the phone to the police and they ask for a description of a person....fisrt thing I'll say is he's black or he's white....then probably his height then his weight. Just because i started off by referencing his color doesn't make me a racist.

As for Zimmerman chasing down Martin. What? from all the media and now being able to listen to some of the police phone call (which was not made on a 911 line) - the police dispatcher advised there was no need to zimmerman to follow. Zimmerman replied 'ok'. From that point on his breathing eased and he said he was making his way back to his truck when he was jumped from behind. Sounds like martin lost zimmerman and then turned and started hunting him down... but who knows... the investigation should tell us all.

As for all this hoodie and sterotyping.... thats what we do! People can be so blind. You mean to say if you're sitting on a plane and a muslim guy sits next to you, you wouldn't be nervous? I'm not saying its right its just the way we are. If I see a 6ft bald, tattoo'd, scars, missing teeth dude selling cookies outside Walmart....I think I'll give him a miss and say no thanks! but a sweet little 7yr old kid with her parents would be different, right!!! Jeezz....

PS - what happened to Allen Coon? this kid was set on fire by 2 black kids outside his own home in KC. The black kids yelled 'thats what you deserve white boy'. It happened around the same time as this case. was it all over the news? Nope.

And why the cute photo of martin? is it because the one of him wearing a hoodie looks.....suspicious? hypocrits if you ask me.

Let justice take its course and stop judging before the evidence is in. innocent until proven guilty right?

Do any of you seriously think that Obama, Holder, and the rest of this administration give two $hits about Martin or Zimmerman, Black, White, Hispanic, guilty or innocent? This is nothing more than the latest manufactured crisis to take everyone's attention away from whatever this diabolical bunch of communists is up to at the moment. If there is one thing the Obamaban is good at, it's creating distractions.

Don't believe it? This thread is over 11 pages right now. If you could total the number of pages from all the threads over the last month (or more) there would be hundreds. Now, go look at the rest of today's stories and see how many responses there are to the economy, or the war, or the Supreme Court on Obamacare, or which of our Constitutional rights are being trampled on while this non-story gets all the press. Yes, a young man was killed. Maybe it was lawful and maybe it wasn't. But this kind of crap happens every day in America. Why this one? Because race is a big draw and they can count on it pulling the nation's attention away from what's going on behind the curtain. Why can't you wake up and see it? Please, people, your freedom depends on it. Or don't you care?

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!

ThaKhan said:

Do people have a right to start a fight and then when they begin to lose that fight, pull out a gun and shoot an unarmed person?

that's what i asked no one gave me an answer or explain how something like that is justifiable.

Nigol

Zimmerman should have known not to chase the suspected person because he said he's a member of the neighborhood watch therefor he should know that members of the watch only REPORT a suspected person not chase them with a gun i mean you don't even have to be a member of a watch to know that. Zimmerman chose to chase him so he should be held accountable for what happened as a result of his negligent behavior therefor he should be charged with negligent manslaughter.

Anb about that whole kid set on fire thing the 2 kids that did that were actually ARRESTED unlike in this case were Zimmerman wasn't even charged with anything for @!$%# sake stop bringing up unrelated nonsense. what does that have to do with this case all you are doing is changing the subject.

Zimmerman is a murderer there is no doubt about that. It's sickening that the state of Florida does not have him behind bars. Although Texas is the biggest promoter of right wing hatred, Florida and most other Republican controlled states are all vying for that title. Every day we hear the lies and the twisted rhetoric from both Republican politicians and all manner of "conservative" right wingers. The reason these people pass bad laws like "stand your ground" is because their cowards that are afraid of their own shadows. Tragities like the murder of Trayvon Martin will continue to occur as long as these Republican ideologues are allowed to inject their poison into American society. In November we must begin to purge these hate merchants from our political system.

name1 im just stating how this law works, im not saying its right, its the law, a case was just dismissed where a guy sees someone casing out cars, he gets a knife and chases the subject, the subject turns and swings a bag of stolen radios at him, he stabs the guy to death, his case was dismissed because even though he instigated the encounter by chasing the subject, he was in fear when the guy swung the bag at him. Right or wrong, its the law as it is written, you can instigate a confrontation then claim SYG(stand your ground) dont hate me hate the law as it is written

NBC has been exposed, this news channel edited the telephone call from Zimerman to 911, in order to give a racist connotation, and creating all this circus we're seeing , lead by marching band , with all the so-called fighters for civies rights , that always are waiting on this type of news to promote racial discontent

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/he-looks-black-nbc-launches-internal-investigation-into-selective-editing-of-zimmerman-police-tape/

Geowil is correct, the image is over-processed. Note the black outline around the cop and other artifacts in the images. This is completely bogus. I think ABC has some 'splainin to do!

zoroaster

How can you be so sure Borealis? I haven't seen any video of Martin's injuries to prove that they were severe enough to be fatal...

He is dead isn't he? Are you really saying you need video evidence when GZ already admitted to shooting him in the chest. If you want to know if that gun shot wound was fatal then ask the mortician. I really hope you were being sarcastic, otherwise you need a clue.

Subliminal

Interesting clip! Thanks.

Now, somebody please show a recent picture from the "victim". That too would provide some clarification instead of portraying him as the innocent little guy.

Even if he were a self-proclaimed gang banger, he was unarmed and half the size and weight of GZ. You can't kill someone just for looking like a thug or saying they will kick your ass. What he chose to do or say in life doesn't mean squat when the question should only be "did he pose an imminent, deadly threat to the shooter?" No other details than that matter and certainly not some stupid pictures.

And yes, he is the VICTIM. He is the one who is dead, so no one is debating that label therefore no quotations needed.

TNRebel

I have had classes and I do carry.

Fact is that Florida law does NOT state anywhere that there has to be "two men, or one with a weapon" to use deadly force. Only that one has to be in fear of serious bodily harm or death. So stop with your uninformed bull shi*t opinion.

Phil-673730

You have EVERY right to defend yourself, up and including lethal force if your getting your ass kicked.

Phil likes to make up his own rules and present them as facts. Even the Sanford Police disagree with him. This is an actual note from the incident report:

"homicide-negligent manslaughter-unnecessary killing to prevent an unlawful act."

You are only correct in your statement if an ass kicking is going to most definitely kill you. And when you are getting punched by a kid less than half your size, no one would believe that you would die from it.

A bruised face & ego is not justification for deadly force, no matter how much you would like it to be so

Ron-975213

Travon's buddies Julius Bender and Yahaziel Israel just got busted in Sanford for using a hammer to almost beat to death a 50 year old guy. I wonder if Jessee and Al are going to scream police brutality because they were put in jail. Why this isn't making the news? Oh because the kids are black.

How does this have anything to do with the Trayvon case? Prove that these kids knew Trayvon

The Feds are finally involved! It took two weeks of demands and I don't know how many petitions - I signed three myself - they are finally involved. The entire state of FL is compromised regarding this case. They've clearly put the Stand Your Ground law ahead of Trayvon Martin. Hopefully, we can now begin a real investigation, instead of just covering up for the previous cover ups.

FL - Epic Fail!!!

yeah, I keep waiting for the media to spurt, "BeDe, BeDe, BeDe, we made a mistake folks." George Zimmerman is not 250 lbs and only weighs 170 and is about 5"10" Poor little Travon, he's just a child....yeah, 6"1" and 140 lbs. He's a little gangbanger that got to big for his britches. He won't be hitting anyone again. Trayvon Justice, Shot in the chest! He derved it he got it!

Guilty is Guilty, Zimmerman is a cold blooded murderer, everyone knows there's enough evidence against Zimmerman. Zimmerman's father and brother, and his lawyer and so call friend including the police report are all lies and lairs. Because Zimmerman's father is a Judge that's why they're trying to own the law by trying to corrupt the law and report for Zimmerman to walk away with murdering Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman is a cold blooded murderer. There is enough evidence to Arrest Zimmerman.

Anyone saying anything negative and hate against blacks are racist with no empathy what so ever.

What about the shouting today at the University of Oakland in LA. Six people dead and many injures.

The incident just happen few hours ago shooting at the university. The killer is not a black race. So who is your enemy, you are your own enemy and enemy of all. Not every white but 65 percent of white people in America are terrible and racist. Hate, hate , hate is their life.

Arrest George Zimmerman, Justice for Trayvon Martin.

I am Trayvon Martin.

Any injury whatsoever on George Zimmerman was self-inflicted.

.

The events of the evening are against Zimmerman and his story. First, Zimmerman was told by a dispatcher that he did not need to follow Martin after Zimmerman reported the boy was running away from him. The fact that there was an altercation shortly after that conversation indicates that Zimmerman did not heed the dispatcher's advice and continued to follow Martin. Furthermore, a girl to whom Martin was speaking on his cell phone as this was happening said Martin told her he was being followed by a strange man who accosted him on the street. When Martin asked the man why he was following him, Zimmerman did not identify himself except to demand that Martin explain what he was doing there. The girl reported the sound of pushing and shoving before the phone went dead.

So Zimmerman caught up to the boy against the advice of the police dispatcher, he did not identify himself as a neighborhood watch citizen, and he got into a pushing match with a frightened boy whom he wound up shooting to death. Never mind the racist remarks made by Zimmerman or the unfounded speculation that the boy was on drugs as he was walking home with nothing more than a pocketful of skittles. Zimmerman shot an unarmed boy without clear justification.

As far as the prosecution of this case is concerned, the Stand Your Ground statute of Florida does not apply because Zimmerman opted to follow Martin, thus changing the nature of Zimmerman's defense. In fact, because it was Martin who was confronted by Zimmerman, many legal experts believe it would have been Travon who would be covered by the Stand Your Ground law, thereby taking away Zimmerman's immunity in a self-defense case.

Zimmerman will be facing serious charges soon, and it is well he should.

Some FYI for those that think Trayvon should have used "Stand your Ground"

2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or

(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

(5) As used in this section, the term:

(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

At no time did Mr. Zimmerman threaten Mr. Martin so Mr. Martin can not claim "Stand your Ground". On the other hand Mr. Zimmerman, if what he says is true, had the right to use lethal force because he was assaulted and did fear death or great bodily harm (head being slammed in the sidewalk).

Your cut and paste does not mean Martin could not qualify nor does does it mean Zimmerman actually does qualify under Florida's Stand Your Ground statute, All it means is that you like to waste bandwidth.

let's see on Dec. 30 2011 Obama signed into law the National defense act of 2012 which states the US Military can now hold you forever without trial all they have to do is sat you are a threat to National Security. so when are they gong to lock up Al Sharpton, J. Jackson and Spike Lee, and all those people saying "No Justice, No Peace"? and if it goes to court and he s found not guilty then what? are they still going to be yelling and Riots in the street? they don't want justice they have there minds made up that he s guilty before they even here all the what all happen unreal.

Nimon--- seeing as Martin is actually dead--- it seems he did have reasonable cause to far for his life.

Sailcat-2064101: That is Florida law, dont like to ****ing bad. The law is the law and as I said before. If the kid attacked ZIM first, guess what ZIM is not guilty of ****. Now if ZIM touched the kid then you might be able to get him on assault charges, but not murder do to Florida law 776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

Again dont like the law, to ****ing bad. Zim was with in his rights to protect himself one way or another. Why do you think he has not be charged yet? Nothing to charge him on under the laws of Florida.

Now for the rest of the story......

Doctored tape????? More cries of racism????? What is really happening here?????

I don't like this development at all. When the news media has twisted this story to their own "version," and it goes viral, then we have a real problem.

Zimmerman is innocent and killed Trayvon in self defense. No doubt about it.

Trayvon got justice: Shot in the chest! There will be no arrest. He deserved to be shot in the chest for punching Zimmerman in the face, knocking him to the ground, and getting on top of him and beating him.

Switchblade:

Zimmerman is not innocent. He provoked a thereatening situation for Trayvon Martin. Trayvon Martin is not here it defend himself and Zimmerman, with the help of his father who is a judge is making a case for self-defense.

The fact of the matter is that had Zimmerman followed National Neighborhood Watch guideline and the instructions of the police dispatcher, Trayvon Martin woiuld still be alive.

The fact of the matter is that Trayvon Martin was innocent of doing anything when he was targeted by Zimmerman.

Zimmerman has a history of violence and aggressive history as a security guard. Little is being said about that history.

Bottom line-Trayvon's parents, Sharpton and Jackson are simply seeking an arrest and full illumination of the facts in this case.

Those on the right are falsely portraying this as a rush to judgment. The rush to judgment was the exoneration of Zimmerman at the scene.

In my view, Zimmerman will be exonerated. There will be conflicting evidence and it will be difficult to say beyond a shadow of a doubt what exactly happened. The family will then file a civil complaint which has a much lower standard of guilt. They will win. However,m they will never collect a dime because Zimmerman seems like a deadbeat..

This case will then set a dangerous precedent. It will allow private citizens to go out and create altercations, tehn claim self defense when they are challenged.

This was a case of a 28 year old man going out after a 17 year old child who was committing no crime and who was not trespassing. This 28 year old man went out with 9mm handgun in his possession. This man had a mindset indicated in the 911 call to the police where he stated "They always get away."

He had convicted Trayvon on sight. he had also determined that this one was not going to get away. Rather than let the police do what they should do, he continued to follow Martin creating suspicion in him, as evidenced by his remarks to his girlfriend.

To allow Zimmerman to get off with no punishment, even if at best this is a terrible mistake, is a travesty of justice.

I guarantee you that all of these Zimmerman supporters would feel very different if it were their son.

Al-2739446

In my view, Zimmerman will be exonerated. There will be conflicting evidence and it will be difficult to say beyond a shadow of a doubt what exactly happened. The family will then file a civil complaint which has a much lower standard of guilt. They will win. However,m they will never collect a dime because Zimmerman seems like a deadbeat..

If they can't get him on criminal grounds they can't get him on civil ones. Protected by 776.032

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

The entire section can be found here: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/776.03

This case will then set a dangerous precedent. It will allow private citizens to go out and create altercations, tehn claim self defense when they are challenged.

Sorry the precedent has already BEEN set in many cases in Florida. That is part of why the first DA declined to pursue the case and sent it to the state.

The fact of the matter is that Trayvon Martin was innocent of doing anything when he was targeted by Zimmerman.

Sorry targeted is a rather strong choice of words. George saw what he considered a suspicious person. That is NOT targeting. Your choice of words implies he pulled out his gun and took aim. Nothing like words to fuel a fight... much like the sounds of what happened here.

This man had a mindset indicated in the 911 call to the police where he stated "They always get away."

Just what mind set would that be? That several robberies had taken place and few had been solved? Or that he had called several times previously and the suspicious persons had disappeared prior to the police arriving? Why can't George use the word THEY like everyone in the USA does? You know THEY, THEM, THOSE PEOPLE.

as evidenced by his remarks to his girlfriend.

Supposed remarks to Trayvons girlfriend. Hearsay at best... not evidence. Even at that her story indicates she condensed the conversation just a bit. She says she suggested he run and sure enough at one point on the recording George indicates the person he is observing has run away.. then per her there is an encounter. So since we are using the hypothetical here.. IF Trayvon had continued to run "away" he would have reached where he and his father were visiting... George was AWAY from that destination not between Trayvon and there.

I guarantee you that all of these Zimmerman supporters would feel very different if it were their son.

You are accurate. We wouldn't be trademarking the name and we would be ALL OVER the moron who wrote the law the way he did. Then again those of us who are not Black would not have the "Reverends" stirring the pot and ignoring that just days ago two Black males beat a man near to death in his vehicle on a public street and then only drove the vehicle half a mile... They could have walked that far and not used as much energy and sure wouldn't be behind bars now.

Trust-Verify:

I am not a lawyer, so I will accept your legal anaysis as you apparently have cited apllicable law.

Having said that then, This child's death will go unpunished.

But, you have raised some interesting points.

I am not sure that Trayvon's Martin's testimony aobut what she personally heard would be considered hearsay. Apparently they have documented that she was on the phone with him up until just before he was shot. This is critical because she is saying that he expressed to her concern about being followed. Zimmerman's account of Trayvon running is consistent with her account of telling him to run.

Now, if Trayvon is running, how did Zimmerman get near him unless he was chasing him?

The other thing, as I understand it, is that Zimmerman claims Trayvon accosted him as he was gertting into his truck. Then, Trayvon is supposed to have hit him in the nose and jumped on him beating him within an inch of his life. This is whe Zimmerman felt he had no choice and shot Trayvon. If this was the case, why was Trayvon's body not found near Zimmerman's vehicle. Trayvon's body was found roughly 70 feet from the door of his father's fiance. You don't have to be Columbo to know that he was trying to get there.

Then, there was two more things that bothered me about this case. Why didn;t Zimmerman identify himself? Instead, he pursued Trayvon in civilian clothes with no legal authority while carrying a 9mm handgun. Why didn't Zimmerman draw his gun immediately after being knocked to the ground? Was it easier for him to pull it after being beaten within an inch of his life as he claims?

Again, even if Zimmerman's act was a result of incompetence, stupidity and a horrendous set of circumstances, it seems to me that he is responsible.

The other thing is that since Trayvon is not here to defend hiumself, we do not how the encounter with Zimmerman occurred. Suppose, that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and displayed his gun, would that put things in a different perspective? The point is that we don't know. Yet, teh Sanford police took Zimmerman's word and essentially exonerated him at the scene in spite of the lead investigator believeing that Zimmerman was lying and the former governor of Florida who signed the "stand your ground" law into effect stating that he did not believe that the law applied in this case.

Think about it. How does it apply. Trayvon was minding his own business. He wasn't seeking Zimmerman out or attempting to get onto Zimmerman's property. He was headed back to where he was living. Zimmerman was the aggressor. If Zimmerman was standing his ground, what ground was that/ Seems to me more like Trayvon could have been standing his ground.

As to Sharpton and Jackson, they were asked to come inot the case because Trayvon's parents could not get anything out of the Sanford Police department. They were advised by their lawyers that they would have to create national attention to get action. Like moist parents, teh did what they needed to do.

Further, Sharpton and Jackson have only asked that an arrest be made and an investigation conducted. That is it. They have engaged in no race baiting. In fact, most surveys show that roughly 80% of the public, black and white, feel that Zimmerman should have been arrested. Those on the right are trying to turn this into a racial issue. It might very well be one, but not because of Jackson and Sharpton, it will be because of Zimmerman. If he did use a racial slur on teh 911 tape, for example, that would be pretty damning.

However, Trayvon's parents are only interested in justice for their son.

I am not sure that Trayvon's Martin's testimony aobut what she personally heard would be considered hearsay. Apparently they have documented that she was on the phone with him up until just before he was shot. This is critical because she is saying that he expressed to her concern about being followed. Zimmerman's account of Trayvon running is consistent with her account of telling him to run.

They have documented the 16 minute call.. There is not recording... Courts say that she can testify to the fact she was on the phone but not what was said.

Now, if Trayvon is running, how did Zimmerman get near him unless he was chasing him?

Good question.. I'm not sure George could actually catch Trayvon... who was on the football team.

The other thing, as I understand it, is that Zimmerman claims Trayvon accosted him as he was gertting into his truck. Then, Trayvon is supposed to have hit him in the nose and jumped on him beating him within an inch of his life. This is whe Zimmerman felt he had no choice and shot Trayvon. If this was the case, why was Trayvon's body not found near Zimmerman's vehicle. Trayvon's body was found roughly 70 feet from the door of his father's fiance. You don't have to be Columbo to know that he was trying to get there.

The early "report" was that George claimed to be at his truck.. recent reporting that the police find evidence supporting he was on his way BACK to the truck when Trayvon stepped out from somewhere and confronted George.

Then, there was two more things that bothered me about this case. Why didn;t Zimmerman identify himself? Instead, he pursued Trayvon in civilian clothes with no legal authority while carrying a 9mm handgun. Why didn't Zimmerman draw his gun immediately after being knocked to the ground? Was it easier for him to pull it after being beaten within an inch of his life as he claims?

Everyone agrees it was raining and night fall. From what we know Trayvon approached and then ran away from George while he was in or at his truck before running away and George began to follow. From the above report I cited it appears words were exchanged rather tersely as Trayvon stepped out to confront George and almost immediately Trayvon sucker punched him.. I cannot confirm that however that is just one scenario that has been suggested by the most recent "leaks"

I'm not comfortable with the term "legal authority" That implies police powers of some sort. George had the legal right to be there, as did Trayvon. George had the legal right to carry (licensed CCW). Pursue is thrown out there a lot and implies he could SEE Trayvon. I'll give you follow and even that is a stretch. Searching might be a better word but George detractors like that pursue or chase aspect. Again from the "leak" while the physical altercation was happening the gun became visible and George got control and the gun fired... my GUESS is he panicked and it discharged by accident but only a guess.

Under 776 there is no requirement to actually be injured only "reasonable belief" that the opponent is about to inflict death or serious bodily injury... and the poor selection of words from there read effectively.. unless lethal force is used.

Again, even if Zimmerman's act was a result of incompetence, stupidity and a horrendous set of circumstances, it seems to me that he is responsible.

AGREE 100% Most of the situation was a series of mistakes on Georges part. Probably more than a little zealous. More than likely frustrated, as demonstrated by his choice of words and actions. If in fact Trayvon did sucker punch George that appears to be a mistake as well and proved fatal.

Unfortunately for all but George 776 was poorly written. Unless the authorities can find what amounts to a loophole now there isn't much they can do. Even unlawful discharge of a gun would be a reach and probably infuriate people more than if they don't file any charges.

I am in your corner on Trayvon in your next two paragraphs in probably 48 other states. Florida does NOT look at any prior activity than the heat of the moment. Trayvon and George probably were within their rights to invoke 776. They both reasonably believed death or injury was imminent unless they used some force to prevent it.

As to Sharpton and Jackson, they were asked to come inot the case because Trayvon's parents could not get anything out of the Sanford Police department. They were advised by their lawyers that they would have to create national attention to get action. Like moist parents, teh did what they needed to do.

There are other spokespersons that could have garnered "better" national attention. more in the next paragraph.

Further, Sharpton and Jackson have only asked that an arrest be made and an investigation conducted. That is it. They have engaged in no race baiting. In fact, most surveys show that roughly 80% of the public, black and white, feel that Zimmerman should have been arrested. Those on the right are trying to turn this into a racial issue. It might very well be one, but not because of Jackson and Sharpton, it will be because of Zimmerman.

776 says they can't arrest unless the investigation can PROVE George is guilty of a crime that would exclude him from 776 immunity. Again this is Florida law. That goes to the 80% survey as well. With that law the shooter not only has a get out of jail free card but would get paid if they could not prove he committed a crime. The "Reverends" say they are there because they need to speak out for the Black community and want peace. Yet they haven't commented on the shooting in Miami the day they were portesting there that left 2 dead and 12 wounded. Nor could they find room to comment on 2 Black males age 18 and 19 that attacked a 40 something White driver on a public street and left him for dead only to drive his vehicle 1/2 mile before abandoning it. They have the local papers so nervous about mentioning race that when the story broke they gave a physical description but no race. Even once the criminals were captured and with photos in the paper they did not mention race. Again no comment from the "Reverends" who are there to promote calm.

The law is what it is. We have ONE legal system. Amazingly people are always demanding entitlement to the law until they aren't happy with some aspect and want to make ONE exception for ONE person. That is not how it works. The legal system is NOT a popularity contest. It is based on the Constitution of the United States and the laws underneath it.

If he did use a racial slur on teh 911 tape, for example, that would be pretty damning.

That is in debate as to what term he used and is ONE word that could have varied meaning.. that has even been commented that it is an ancient term. Just a little west many southern states use the term "coon ass" as a term of maybe not endearment but a friendly reference to each other having nothing to do with race. Also the term "goon" as in a criminal could have been used and is still in use in many places.. especially when referring to gang members as in a bunch of goons or thugs. Original debated words included "f--- cold" which would be words someone might use after stepping out of their warm dry vehicle into the cold (for Florida at least) rain. Whatever the word, it was not directed at Trayvon or dispatch.

However, Trayvon's parents are only interested in justice for their son.

Actions are currently speaking louder than words or intent. Trademarking his name looks bad. Stating they won't be happy until George is arrested. Implying that unless he is convicted there will be ongoing trouble sure doesn't help their case. It could be the media reporting (editing?) that is making it come out that way but that is the impression I am getting that they want.

The REAL justice that needs to come out of this should be fixing the law. This is NOT the first time the law has been abused(?) and unless they change it, it won't be the last. This is just the first time there has been a national outcry and primarily because the race card was played early on as well as a lot of slanted reporting.

Personally if this all blows up I think that NBC and all of the medial outlets who bent the truth and altered facts should be held responsible. Even to the point of criminal liability on the reporters for inciting violence, riots, and mayhem. I admire that Mars and BPW have kept their heads down and not taken any position on this. They were smart enough to avoid issues no matter which way this all turns out.

:)

@ trust_verify

The REAL justice that needs to come out of this should be fixing the law. This is NOT the first time the law has been abused(?) and unless they change it, it won't be the last.

I am not sure why you feel the law needs to be changed. I think the idea was that if a person was involved in a fatal shooting and it seems 'reasonable' that self-defense was at the center of the shooting that the shooter should go free. The point being that it is easier to remain free if one has not already been incarcerated; i.e., if one has been arrested a 'point of pride' issue would arise about letting one out of jail. Also, in this case, the prosecuters would be under more pressure to prove the point if the guy is already in jail because of potential law suits for unlawful inprisionment.

At this point, Zimmerman is free and there is no repercusions from George from being unlawfully confined. He is available if charges are filed.

I carry a concealed weapon and sometimes openly everyday where I live. I know that if I have to defend myself and it turns out to leathal I am in for the 'hassle" of my life! I think the Florida law was inacted to help people defend themselves without the 'hassle." We don't want law enforcement to have to second guess when it is appropriate to shoot or not shoot so the courts have pretty much overwhelmingly give great latitude to cops... I think the same latitude should be given to citizens who find themselves having to defend them selves against attacks on their person or property.

switchblade-2693948

I also have a carry permit. Don't carry that often. The Florida law has an issue in that as it is written I can come up to you, egg you on, and the moment you pull back for that proverbial Hollywood swing I can blast you into the next county. I agree the law was INTENDED to protect those who choose to protect themselves. The problem is they left out the part about you cannot instigate things. I'm not advocating for a retreat clause, that was why they moved this law into place in 2005; to eliminate that requirement.

I am all in favor of protecting human life and limb. I have issues with that protecting property because of people like George. I used to have a sign that read Nothing in this house is worth your life. That also applies in reverse.. Nothing in my residence is worth MY life or the life of someone else. Same with my car. I have insurance to replace property. Life insurance won't bring me or anyone else back.

I'm not saying George instigated this situation but it does bring 776 under a bright light. Castle Doctrine gives us the ability to protect our self at our abodes and many states have extended that to our conveyances. I can even carry into a bar in most states but not imbibe. I don't think it is that restrictive to say we can't poke the bear just so we can shoot it.

The law as written covers George whether they change it or not. Even putting a don't poke the bear section would still cover George IMHO. He was not brandishing the gun that we know of... DeeDee made no mention of it at least and I am sure she would have, had Trayvon said anything about a gun. George was not committing any crime that we are aware of (he would be in jail if he had been). At minimum Florida needs to fix their FAQ and explain deadly force does not equal lethal force 100% of the time.

Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.

That from http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html. I highlighted the part I see an issue with. Also note that NO WHERE does Florida allow the use of deadly force regarding property.

@ trust_verify

Most states do not allow for protection of property outside ones dwelling except Montana, or at least that I am currently aware of.

However,

am all in favor of protecting human life and limb. I have issues with that protecting property because of people like George. I used to have a sign that read Nothing in this house is worth your life. That also applies in reverse.. Nothing in my residence is worth MY life or the life of someone else. Same with my car. I have insurance to replace property. Life insurance won't bring me or anyone else back.

is the wrong attitude. Why do you think our insurance premiums keep going up??? Do you suppose there is more theft, more car jacking? I would think so; however, because of concealed carry permits, car jackings have gone down considerably.

We cannot give the criminal element the power of honest citizens relying on 'insurance' to cover their loss because we all pay for those losses. I believe we, as citizens, have a duty to stop crimie and criminals in their tracks. It is our duty if we have a concealed weapon permit. I am not saying I would try a citizen's arrest if I saw someone breaking into a car or house. I would have a duty to call 911. But if I were eating at a resurant and saw a person with a gun drawn and pointing it at the cashier, I would blow the perps head off. No questions asked. The same would be true for some idiot shooting in a school. If I were there, I would end it right there. I can carry concealed on campuses where I live.

Threats or hassles from people do not, in my book, give me the right to 'clear leather' with my weapon. If I am being hassled then I just need to move along and find another place to hang out. I have had it happen.... just best to move along because you cannot, in my state, stand there and insult a man to the point of enraging them. This is provocation and will not stand up to self defense claim.

States vary from state to state on whether you can carry concealed in bars or resturants that servve alcohol. In my state you can carry in those establishments. However, the neighboring state says you cannot. I have gone into one bar with my weapon in the open and the bar tender aksed me if I could legally carry. I said yes. He said he was unconfortable with me carrying my weapon and drinking. I said I agree. But I don't drink alcohol when I am carrying my weapon. When I am out with my buddies and carrying, I drink a lot of coffee.

Most bars will ask that I conceal the weapon. Which is cool. That is there right and I comply or leave.

Well, it's established that Zimmerman was taken into custody that night, but after five hours of interviewing him, coupled with eyewitness statements that Martin was assaulting Zimmerman, who shot Martin in fear for his life, the District Attorney decided to release Zimmerman.

What's not established is why MSNBC, the NY Time, the Washington Post, and dozens of other members of the main stream media failed for over a week to report the information of the proximate cause of the shooting (i.e., Martin's assault on Zimmerman). Instead we were barraged with constant reporting of inaccurate or slanted facts. I can't believe the media knew that Martin was shot by Zimmerman in the course of an assault. If they didn't know, they should be fire. If they did know, but withheld that information, they should be fired. In any event, the folks in the media who are trying to manipulate the news should be fired.

I also wonder why MSNBC consistently have chosen to display favorable photos of Martin and thuggish mug shot like photos of Zimmerman. Perhaps those are the only photos the media could locate, other than the photos everyone else seems to have found of a much more thuggish looking Martin on his Facebook and Twitter account.

When you have the Today Show, intentionally editing 911 recordings in an effort to portray Zimmerman as rascist, someone should be held accountable and fired.

http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-baltimore/nbc-today-show-commits-journalistic-malpractice-by-editing-zimmerman-911-call

It's interesting and shocking how the media is desperately trying to incite racial animosity in a thinly veiled effort to support the Community Organizer in Chief and take the attention off economic woes.

.

You say riots all over Florida? Try all over the country. People are angry because Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged. If he shot Martin in self-defense then let him prove it in court. But even the most racist rightwingers have to admit that Zimmerman did shoot and kill an unarmed man. Everything else should be decided in a court of law.

Bring on the riot I've been there, I've done that and I've got the freaking Tshirt for it. You don't scare me with it.

John 2006106, what proof do you have that Martin attacked Zimmerman? His word? His father's word? The fact that he had a cut on his head? None of this is proof. What is proven is that Trayvon was shot to death by Zimmerman. As I said, everything should be proven in a court of law.

Its simple..the state of Florida made the law..and its call "Stand your ground" the shooter didn't make the law. Now the shooter claimed its self defense..until they can prove it wasn't self defense there is nothing they could do to arrest him and bring him to court. Hearsay is not permitted in a court of law.

Only thing they can do in Florida is change the law of "Stand your ground" for future claims of self defense.

it now appears, that zimmerman was questioned for about 4 hours, witness were interviewed; evidence gathered was sent to the State Prosecutor, who found no probable cause to charge him, pending additional evidence; as tragic as this encounter was, unless some one comes up with more evidence, the best Martin's family can hope for is a Grand Jury investigation, which will probably pre-Demeter, unless more evidence is uncovered.

The lastest from the Feds is, they are in a parallel investigation but their investigation is on the Fed level.

Hate Crime, violation of Civil Rights. They can shake that piece of paper called Florida's Stand Your Ground law all they want. State laws never trump a Federal law. If the Fed get him and I'm all for that because I believe GM murdered TM, it'll be a Federal Courthouse and a Federal Judge doing all the heavy legal work.

Geo better get the NRA to start to funnel buckets of money to him for his defense because he's going to need it.

And to the police department and city attorney there in Sanford, you can pass go, do not collect $200 and go right to jail for covering up and conspiracy. The conspiracy is going to the nail in their coffin. It's not about getting fired, losing their pension, it's about heavy federal jail time.

Good lesson for other police departments who desperately need it.

The Stand Your Ground law is definitly the problem here, this shooting in the symptom. However, it's a state law, so if the feds investigate and determine a civil rights violation occurred justice is still within reach. That's why the most ardent segregationists and opposition to the civil rights movement to this day cry about "state's rights". It's code for, "We don't want to apply the law equally".

Continuing, no one is calling for Zimmerman's CONVICTION, nor do we need to meet the standard "beyond a reasonable doubt" right now. We're calling for his ARREST, which is based on probable cause...

Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime, thereby warranting his or her prosecution, or that a cause of action has accrued, justifying a civil lawsuit.

Taking out all hearsay or witnesses, we know...

1. Zimmerman followed Trayvon and disregarded the 911 operator.

2. Trayvon was unarmed and had a right to be in the neighborhood.

3. Zimmerman was not in compliance with the neighborhood watch rules.

4. Zimmerman received basic first aid and had simple abrasions, but did not appear to be unduly injured.

5. Trayvon's body was found in a back yard, away from a road.

Those are FACTS. How you spin them or how they come together to complete the picture, is up for a jury to decide. However, that will never happen without an arrest. That is why we are calling for an ARREST.

mackman-912848....."@UR-stupid, that remains to br seen. This whole case was boched from the start by these HECK town bigoted cops. The cry is for justice, simple as that. If GZ is proven to be innocent, so be it. This is not about race, it about right, and wrong."

You may want to redirect your comments to Mr. Obama, the media, members of Congress, Mr. Sharpton, Mr. Jackson, ACLU, and the Black Panthers who HAVE MADE THIS a racist issue.

Today's New York Post has a provocative (or offensive) cover saying that "Race Hustlers" are exploiting the tragedy of Trayvon Martins' death. At least they are still calling it a "tragedy" today.

On the cover are three New York state senators, Kevin Parker, Bill Perkins, and Eric Adams, who wore hoodies in solidarity with the rallies for Martin across the nation.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-27/politics/31243012_1_cover-kevin-parker-tragedy

As mentioned in previous posts: Law enforcement officials will complete their investigation(s), depending upon the investigation results will determine judicial proceedings, and when it goes to court a jury will DECIDE the outcome.

No one has ALL the facts until they are presented in a proper manner, and NOT by a Court of Public opinion.

The Kangaroo Court continues.

Hate crime,violation of civil rights. The shooter is a jewish latino!

I'm getting pretty suspicious of Stand Your Ground laws. Last night a woman in my city supposedly killed a burglar and wasn't arrested. Problem was he was dead on the porch, not in her house.

SYG is fast becoming a get out of jail free card for trigger happy people.

The investigation should be pretty simple. The police have a recording of Zimmerman acknowledging that Martin is running and that he is pursuing him. It is also established that the confrontation took place a distance from Zimmerman's SUV and near the residence Martin was staying at. Regardless then of whether or not Martin punched or "assaulted" Zimmerman, it is perfectly clear who was acting in self-defense. An armed man pursued and confronted him. He had the right to stand his ground the law grants.

On the other hand, does anyone doubt that Martin would have been arrested and charged if he had killed Zimmerman, even without a weapon? The fact is that many who are trying to justify Zimmerman have already convicted this young man and that can only be explained by racism.

Hate crime,violation of civil rights. The shooter is a jewish latino!

And this somehow means he can't violate a person's civil rights or committ a hate crime???

http://law.jrank.org/pages/1318/Hate-Crimes.html

1. The Legislature finds and declares the following:

1. It is the right of every person, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, to be secure and protected from threats of reasonable fear, intimidation, harassment, and physical harm caused by activities of groups and individuals.
2. It is not the intent, by enactment of this section, to interfere with the exercise of rights protected by the Constitution of the State of Alabama or the United States.
3. The intentional advocacy of unlawful acts by groups or individuals against other persons or groups and bodily injury or death to persons is not constitutionally protected when violence or civil disorder is imminent, and poses a threat to public order and safety, and such conduct should be subjected to criminal sanctions.

b. The purpose of this section is to impose additional penalties where it is shown that a perpetrator committing the underlying offense was motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability

c. A person who has been found guilty of a crime, the commission of which was shown beyond a reasonable doubt to have been motivated by the victim's actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, or physical or mental disability, shall be punished as

The civil rights violation, which in this case would most likely apply to the police...

A civil civil rights violation refers to an offense that occurs when the fundamental freedoms or civil liberties of an individual or a class of people is violated.

In civil civil rights violation, the violator is usually an organization, company, or government entity. For instance, a female association filing a complaint against their employer on the ground of discrimination.

I didn't see an exception in any of that for "Jewish Latinos".

P.S. That's an example of a state hate crime statute, please don't present strawman arugments, seeing as they are all very similar.

Funny though Mike277 -- the man that signed that law even says that the circumstances of this case dont seem to follow under this law.

Justice is when the courts rule that it was self-defense, not the police, not the DA, not the bloggers and commentors. A COURT OF LAW!

zimmerman doesn`t have to prove that it was self defense, the state has the burden of proof to prove that it was murder. all the evidence and all the witnesses seem to support the self defense claim. The state is going to need some pretty solid evidence to prove it was murder and as of now they don`t have that evidence.

Tardacus,

Not quite...

In Jacksonville, Florida and other locations in the First District, the criminal procedure allows a defendant to file a motion to have the judge dismiss the charges against him/her. That motion, which is filed by the criminal defense attorney, does not technically characterize the defendant's justifiable use of force as a defense to the charges. The criminal defense lawyer's motion will properly indicate that his/her client's use of force renders the defendant immune from prosecution on the charges. Because the justifiable use of force defense is an assertion of immunity rather than what is referred to as an affirmative defense, the motion is made prior to the trial, and the judge will weigh the relevant evidence to determine if the defendant was justified in using such force. The defendant has the burden of proof, but the standard is by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e. greater than 50%) rather than the typical beyond a reasonable doubt standard the State has in a criminal case.

You may believe the hearsay that corroberates Zimmerman's story and claim that this looks like a case of self defense, many disagree with you. But if you are right and that is true, than let Zimmerman be arrested (we have enough probable cause for that) and file his motion of self defense.

lipgloss vs. lipstick:

what proof do you have that Martin attacked Zimmerman? His word? His father's word?

I'd say the words of an eyewitness are pretty compelling, don't you agree? The police have statements from at least one person, provided that night, identifying that Martin was physically assaulting Zimmerman who was on the ground trying to fend off Martin.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

I'll agree we'll probably never know who threw the first punch, but based on a better understanding of just who Trayvoon Martin was, based on reading his own Twitter account posts, I'd say he was probably an angry black man who was angry at the world, serving a 10 day suspension, and was pissed off at this guy who had the gall to follow him.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified

Since we can't talk to Martin himself, I suppose reading what he's written will have to suffice for now, to help us understand just who he was, other than being suspended three times in the past four months, once while in the possession of a large amount of women's jewelry and a "burglary tool".

.

Lipgloss vs. Lipstick:

So its guilty till proven innocent now eh....

He IS off the street. He's in hiding. Why? Because he's guilty! He's either being hidden by the police or cronies of his 'former' judge father. There WILL be major riots all over the country if Zimmerman is not arrested. For those of you who remember the riots in the 60's, this will be far worse! I guarantee it!

Zimmerman will be charged and the Police and Prosecutor are going to be explaining for while, why they didn't charge. Remember the Police wanted to charge him in the first place.

I have no doubt the Prosecutor was doing Dad a favor, why do you think this kid laid unclaimed for days? They knew who this kid was, they had his Cell Phone and called nobody listed on his phone.

They thought this was going to go away and nobody would do anything, but boy did they get a surprise.

I'd say the words of an eyewitness are pretty compelling, don't you agree?

Read some of the controlled research studies on the reliability of eyewitnesses. You'd be very surprised.

Lipgloss vs Lipstick

"Racist right wingers..."

Hmmm...seems the Democratic Party has always been the party of the KKK and the 'right wingers' were the abolitionist Republicans. Of course, don't let a little history get in the way of your bigotry.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

"As a secret vigilante group, the Klan targeted freedmen and their allies; it sought to restore white supremacy by threats and violence, including murder, against black and white Republicans. In 1870 and 1871, the federal government passed the Force Acts, which were used to prosecute Klan crimes.^[18] Prosecution of Klan crimes and enforcement of the Force Acts suppressed Klan activity. In 1874 and later, however, newly organized and openly activeparamilitary organizations, such as the White League and the Red Shirts, started a fresh round of violence aimed at suppressing blacks' voting and running Republicans out of office. These contributed to segregationist white Democrats regaining political power in all the Southern states by 1877."

I find it interesting that calling a black person black is now a sign that you are a racist. Is there any doubt that a bounty on a black suspect would be met with prosecution? I don't know if this guy is guilty yet and neither does the DC that is why it is under investigation. If he did it he will be convicted, all though finding a jury at this point won't be easy.

You all want to call this a hate crime, but lets stop for a moment and look at motive and probable cause. Is there any? How many other people has he shot as the neighborhood watch CAPTAIN? Zero. Where is the motive? This is a man who tutored children of all race who couldn't afford it on their own, and he did this over his weekends. You all want to jump to the conclusion that he killed a kid in a cold blood racially provoked murder and I just do not understand why. Were you there? Did you see the hate and viciousness in his eyes when he did it? No, and all the evidence and how he acted in his community paint a different story of him.

Please tell me what motive he had to kill a kid in cold blood. If you all can vilify him you must have some evidence or something that shows he's racist and a murderer. Just because he used a gun does not mean he is a monster, it means he's a murderer or he was attacked and defended himself.

Use your brains people, stop jumping from "the kid was black, zimmerman killed him, hate crime, justice" That is not justice, that's just stupidity, and it makes you look very ignorant.

@Sarah-3043284

1. Zimmerman followed Trayvon and disregarded the 911 operator.

(Did he really? The Operator didn't tell him not to by the way, listen to the tape again. We also do not know if he continued after the operator said that to him, he simply said ok.)

2. Trayvon was unarmed and had a right to be in the neighborhood.

(Did he? If he did that's fine, however Zimmerman was saying he was acting strange, walking through yards and near windows of houses that were not his. If this report is true, I do not know if it is, then he had a reason to do his job as neighborhood watch.)

3. Zimmerman was not in compliance with the neighborhood watch rules.

(This I do not know much about can you explain what he did that was against the rules?)

4. Zimmerman received basic first aid and had simple abrasions, but did not appear to be unduly injured.

(Based on a grainy video. Again, were you there? Did you see his injuries first hand on scene? He may have been, and probably was, treated for his injuries on site by paramedics.)

5. Trayvon's body was found in a back yard, away from a road.

(I am guessing there was a scuffle, it may have started near the car and sidewalk, and may have moved when someone tried to get away, or they scuffled to a back yard. There was a witness that night who heard the scuffle and saw Zimmerman being attacked with Martin on top, Zimmerman yelling to get help. He went inside and went up stairs to call 911 but the shot rang out. The other witnesses either did not see it and only heard it, or came out a month later saying they saw it.)

Produce some evidence that this was premeditated and that when he saw Martin, he targeted him to kill him based on the color of his skin. I just don't see that.

John 2006106@ checked your link. So this youngman posted some comment with a curse word. Big deal...oh by the way do you have kids?? Have you seen what the average 15-21 yr old posts on FB or what they tweet. I've seen my son and daughters friends post things that are way worse and far more likely to make you think someone is a criminal.

What i didnt see is anything proving your claim that Trayvon Martin was suspended three times...or that he was in possesion of womens jewelry and a burglary tool. Hmmmm...did you just pull that one out of the air. I'm also familiar with the publication your link goes too. Possible agenda here maybe?? Oh yeah before anyone responds with what MSNBC and others are not reporting know this.... there is in my opinion extreme groups on both sides of this tragedy who wish to use this for their own agenda. I get my news from multiple agencys both liberal, conservative and moderate. I take whats reported and balance it with common sense and open ears. Some of the stuff people are saying is just ridiculous...

@Rick Cain

I'm getting pretty suspicious of Stand Your Ground laws. Last night a woman in my city supposedly killed a burglar and wasn't arrested. Problem was he was dead on the porch, not in her house.

SYG is fast becoming a get out of jail free card for trigger happy people.

Uhhh, guess what, that sounds like "forced entry" to me. If someone were on my front porch trying to kick my door in, you're damn right I am going to invoke my state's castle law and shoot through it. Sounds like this woman did the right thing (just like the young mother in Oklahoma).

If GZ had REALLY suffered any injuries, the hick town cops (Barney Phifes) should have (PHOTO DOCUMENTED) them BEFORE any first aide was given.

GZ clothes should have been (PHTO DOCUMENTED) before the keystone cops even touched them. The call was made by hick towm SUPERIORS LED BY GZ's father. All evidence was corrupted after that, starting at the crime scene. It does not matter what color the shooter was. GOOD PEOPLE of ALL races are upset because a killer is a free man, and the cops tried to sweep the whole thing under the rug.

PS: Most people on this thread do not know what a racist is. This case has racial undertones, (due to America's racist past) but this is about HUMAN justice. Most BIGOTS won't understand that though.

John-2006106

And several witnesses who have said the police ignored what they said they saw. Several vs. one?

What will riots solve A E???? Nothing. More racist violence from the loudest criers of racism!! It will not bring Trayvon back, it will not honor his memory, and ol Zim will probably be soaking up some sun in a tropical location and INNOCENT people who had NOTHING to do with this will be harmed. People of more than one race I am guessing. I am guessing he acted as a murderer, that's my opinion. I am a white woman. I am enraged that Zim has not been arrested. If he doesn't, I'm not going to join some violent group to make people pay that don't deserve harm or death anymore than Trayvon did. If racism is such the star here, having an overload of black on white or hispanic crime will be a huge stain on black people. People should channel their energies to get laws changed and have peaceful gatherings. If there are race riots all over the country, then, I guess I will have to become racist in order to protect myself. VIOLENCE BREEDS VIOLENCE.

Everyone seems to be missing the point here and bringing up race and injuries which none of this makes any difference,the prosecution is only going to try and prove one thing did Zimmerman follow this young man and confront him,it does not make any difference who started the fight or who hit first,stand your ground is a good law even though I think that it is un-necassary because most people are going to protect themself anyway,it does not mean that you go looking fo someone and kill them when you start loosing the fight.

Stan,

The 911 operator asked, "Are you following him". Zimmerman responded, "Yeah". The 911 operator than said, "Okay we don't need you to do that". Zimmerman than said, "Okay". Whether or not he Zimmerman than listened, is a matter for the jury. The fact that he admitted that he was following him, is probable cause.

Yes, Trayvon had a reason for being there. Zimmerman's job as neighborhood watch ended was he called 911. His job as a watchman (unofficial by the way, they weren't registered with the national neighborhood watch) is to WATCH and REPORT. He had done that. The fact that he continued following, watching, and eventually confronting (he did get out of the car) is probable cause. Furthermore, it's in direct conflict with neighborhood watch rules, to carry a weapon.

He was treated by the paramedics. That's all we know, besides the fact that he DIDN'T go to the hospital and that he had a minor abrasion on the back of his head. His claiming to be assaulted so bad he was afraid for his life, but didn't need to go to the hospital is probable cause, whether or not that could still constitute self defense is for a jury.

Your entire final paragraph is nothing but hearsay. Except for the fact that Trayvon's body wasn't by the street which doesn't add up to Zimmerman's story. Once again, probable cause. In a self defense claim it's up to Zimmerman to explain that discrepancy.

I don't have to show premeditation. We're talking about an ARREST, not a trial. If he gets charged with 1st Degree homicide and a hate crime, than the prosecuter will, but that doesn't change the fact that the burden of proof is on Zimmerman to prove his self defense claim through a preponderance of evidence.

No, Sarah, if he's charged and it goes to trial, it's the prosecution's burden to prove it. The defendant doesn't even have to put on a case.

"FBI agents on Monday were questioning potential witnesses in the Trayvon Martin shooting, confirming to NBC News that the agency had begun a "parallel investigation" that focuses on whether the teen's civil rights were violated."

Apparently Obama told the FBi - "I don't care what the facts are - I want you to find something to pin on Zimmerman".

Sarah,

And if a jury finds him not-guilty, are you going to stand alongside that decision? Or will this turn into another Casey Anthony story?

The FBI are the masters of the cover up that's why they investigate cops they talk to witnesses collect evidence they do a thorough investigation so they can decide what can be effectively covered up or if they can't how can it be minimised and by way of his father zimmerman would be protected just like a cop if at all possible that's why he was protected initially.

"Innocent until proven Guilty if your __________"

"Guilty until proven Innocent if your __________"

It's poetry time boys and girls:

A Colorful Character by Calvin L. Brown

A Colorful Character one that's true

He or She could be Red, She or He could be Blue

Now in Reference to Color, some still see in Black or White

They'll need some color in their Character to see me as either Mean or Polite

Good guys wear White Clothes, Band guys wear Black

Now what was the COLOR, (Excuse me), CHARACTER of the person who thought of All that?

If I were to cut you, and you were to cut me, wouldn't we both agree that it's the COLOR Red we'd see?

Unless cold like ice, your character it flows Blue, remember you heart pumps the color that represents the true you!

Will I be judged for my character, or the skin that I'm in?

I don't think COLOR will be a factor, when HE returns again!

A colorful character one that's true, She or He could be me,

He or She SHOULD BE YOU!!!! R.I.P. Trayvon Martin!

GOD IS STILL ON THE THRONE........ BE BLESSED!

While justice is a worthy goal, in the end its not really what the lawyers are interested in. The Martin killing happened in late February but didn't get traction until mid-March when the families "white" lawyer began demanding justice on social media sites. It went viral. The more screwed up the Sanford Police and the State of Florida can be made to appear and the more the public can be whipped into a moral frenzy, the more money that will be available once all this hits the civil courts. Zimmerman has no money but his conviction or at least trial if crucial to keeping fervor peaked so the really big payoff by the City and State can come later. Zimmerman, Martin, MSNBC, Fox, etc are all willing pawns. A good riot here and there would also help. Go back and look at the Rodney King case - in the end it was the lawyers that really made out.

Dirt,

Wrong, it's a claim of self defense...

In Jacksonville, Florida and other locations in the First District, the criminal procedure allows a defendant to file a motion to have the judge dismiss the charges against him/her. That motion, which is filed by the criminal defense attorney, does not technically characterize the defendant's justifiable use of force as a defense to the charges. The criminal defense lawyer's motion will properly indicate that his/her client's use of force renders the defendant immune from prosecution on the charges. Because the justifiable use of force defense is an assertion of immunity rather than what is referred to as an affirmative defense, the motion is made prior to the trial, and the judge will weigh the relevant evidence to determine if the defendant was justified in using such force. The defendant has the burden of proof, but the standard is by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e. greater than 50%) rather than the typical beyond a reasonable doubt standard the State has in a criminal case.

You may believe the hearsay that corroberates Zimmerman's story and claim that this looks like a case of self defense, many disagree with you. But if you are right and that is true, than let Zimmerman be arrested (we have enough probable cause for that) and file his motion of self defense.

Franco,

If the trial is fair, I'll accept the verdict, but like Anthony (who I believe is at least complicit in the death of her daughter if not outright guilty), it won't change my mind on what I believe happened that night.

Sarah-3043284: What people like you don't get is that the fact that ZIM claimed self defence under the law of Florida they cant arrest him. So you want the police to arrest ZIM and make it to where the police are braking the laws of Florida.

Leatherneck,

If there's probable cause you can still be arrested. What do you think, people can run around doing whatever and scream "Self Defense" like a game of T.V. Tag, immunizing themselves from any kind of justice?

Uh, no. If there's probable cause to believe something shady went down (see post 2.37) than you follow the court rules (see post 2.44).

AMSargent85 (post 2.31)

What i didnt see is anything proving your claim that Trayvon Martin was suspended three times...

Well, here’s some more reports AMSargent85. You claim to read all sorts of news, so I wonder how these FACTS escaped your G2 nose for news.

MSNBC, 26 March 2012, states “A security guard looking through his backpack for the graffiti marker and instead found women’s rings and earrings and a screwdriver, described by the staffer as a “burglary tool.”"

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/26/10872124-trayvon-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school

NBC Miami, 27 March 2012 states “The 17-year-old was suspended three times in a series of incidents that included getting caught spraying graffiti and carrying an empty baggie with traces of marijuana, according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by the Miami Herald.”

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-Suspended-From-School-Three-Times-Report-144403305.html

Instead of posting such gibberish, why don’t you demonstrate some independent thought and at least Google the matter to see for yourself?

.

Sarah-3043284: The police wanted to arrest ZIM, but the DA office knows it needs beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed a Crime to arrest ZIM. They even changed the DA and still have not arrested ZIM. Why they are looking for any evidence to arrest ZIM on. Why under Florida law don’t know where you live, but in Florida right now under the law of Florida they can’t arrest him by LAW.

So again Sarah it might be different where you live but the laws of each state are different and right now. There is no evidence to show beyond a reasonable doubt that ZIM committed a crime by Florida laws.

See the thing is lucky for us we are not arrested by what people think or what they believe. There is a process that happens and your innocent in tell Proven Guilty.

Right now all we have is people saying he stalked the kid right there he is guilty=Wrong Stalking in the English language the Stalking the law term have two total different meanings. Slaking by law term definition means multiple times not once.

People say ZIM had no right to follow or question the kid=No law against it sorry. If that was the case then a lot of Mormons or Jehovah witnesses would be getting arrested every day for walking up to people trying to spread the word of their churches or god pick your choice.

Even if the people who made the stand your ground law says well that’s not what we meant by this law, well guess what, what you mean and what you wrote can be total different things. Unless you put in clauses of when this law is not to be used then fine, yet the creators of the law failed to specify when it can be used and when it can’t.

So that Zim has said that he was under attack and was defending himself under the law of Stand your ground the police cannot arrest ZIM under the law. Period. You, I or others might not agree with it, but it’s the law of Florida. As long as it’s the law the police cannot under no reason place ZIM under arrest unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that ZIM shot the kid and it was not self defense. In tell then Sarah does not matter what you, me or others think. Zim cannot be arrested by law. Period.

Might want to study up on laws and what is probable cause, do to right now they don’t have ****.

Leatherneck,

The police wanted to arrest ZIM, but the DA office knows it needs beyonda reasonabledoubt that he committed a Crime to arrest ZIM. They even changed the DA and still have not arrested ZIM. Why they are looking for any evidence to arrest ZIM on. Why under Florida law don’t know where you live, but in Florida right now under the law of Florida they can’t arrest him by LAW.

The standard for arrest, in every state is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" it's "probable cause". This is also why a special state prosecuter has replaced those in favor of not arresting Zimmerman and the Feds are investigating. Because probable cause is present and something is smelling fishy.

There is no evidence to show beyonda reasonabledoubt that ZIM committed a crime by Florida laws

Again, reasonable doubt is for the jury, not the arresting officers. Here is what the FL Stand Your Ground Law says...

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Here is your probable cause...

The 911 operator asked, "Are you following him". Zimmerman responded, "Yeah". The 911 operator than said, "Okay we don't need you to do that". Zimmerman than said, "Okay". Whether or not he Zimmerman than listened, is a matter for the jury. The fact that he admitted that he was following him, is probable cause. As is the fact that he got out of his car.

Yes, Trayvon had a reason for being there. Zimmerman's job as neighborhood watch ended when he called 911. His job as a watchman (unofficial by the way, they weren't registered with the national neighborhood watch) is to WATCH and REPORT. He had done that. The fact that he continued following, watching, and eventually confronting (he did get out of the car and a scuffle did happen) is probable cause. Furthermore, it's in direct conflict with neighborhood watch rules, to carry a weapon, which is more probable cause.

He was treated by the paramedics. That's all we know, besides the fact that he DIDN'T go to the hospital and that he had a minor abrasion on the back of his head. His claiming to be assaulted so bad he was afraid for his life, but didn't need to go to the hospital is probable cause, whether or not that could still constitute self defense is for a jury.

Zimmerman's claim that he was returning to his car, yet the body was away from the street is also probable cause, because it doesn't add up with him obeying the 911 operator. Nor does his claim to have been attacked from behind, add up with his having a broken nose. Whether or not they can make a claim anyway is for the jury.

The fact that Trayvon was unarmed, is also probable cause. Whether or not that matters, is for the jury.

Here is the standard for probable cause...

Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime, thereby warranting his or her prosecution, or that a cause of action has accrued, justifying a civil lawsuit.

That's enough to arrest him. Do so, and let him file his motion for self defense and let the jury decide.

Agreed Ruken! By failing to allow for due process of law to take place, justice will not come. Justice comes from following the necessary steps to collect evidence, file charges, then allow the courts to do their jobs of hearing the evidence in the case. When the media becomes part of the story, the press has become part of the lynch mob.

It's also time for families to quit using the media to spew hatred and dissention towards other groups of people. If this victim had been white, there would be NO STORY here. As for the Black Panthers involvement, they are more dangerous today than back in the 60s, and now have moved on towards armed insurrection in order to seize power.

I wonder what "I can't file against my own people" Eric Holder would do if it was his own people rioting in the streets of America. If you find yourself facing a 40 caliber machine gun and the trooper says get your butt back in the house don't argue just get your butt back in the house.

Well having lived during the time of the old Black Panthers. I don't ever remember them intimidating elderly voters or putting out a Dead or Alive bounty on anyone. So yes I would say the New ones are more dangerous.

I find it interesting to read SOME white folks worried about LYNCHMOBS, RIOTS, VIOLENCE, the New Black Panthers. It kind of sounds like the tables have been turned, in ignorant minds!!! Black folks have lived in fear of RACIAL violence for hundreds of years. To be beaten, mamed, murdered, burned, shot, lynched because of the color of your skin. This is the racial enviornment that was created by white racists in power. But this case is about basic American Justice, the shooter could have been black, white, red, brown, yellow, pink, etc. He shot an unarmed child, for no reason, and is still running free.....GOOD folks in America are tired of being non-violent, waiting on bigoted cops, and judges in the south, and north to deny an American family (who happens to be Balck) justice. Know your RACIAL history America!!!

Three black guys on a 24 hour video loop on Fox News does not a "New Black Panther Party" make.

BTW, it may surprise the heck out of some of you confirmation-biased slack-jawers out there, but these new Panthers (however many there are supposed be of them) only speak for themselves, not the black (or American) community as a whole. We don't have designated spokespersons any more than are whites all represented by Rush Limbaugh and Mitt Romney. If some goof-azz puts out a bounty on Zimmerman that doesn't mean that his capture is somehow sanctioned by a secret ballot from the Onyx Cabal (oops, I wasnt supposed to mention the hidden black power structure by name in public... they're gonna send me to the Drop Squad for this, I just know it...)

The Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 70s, and the New Black Panther Party of today are two completely distinct groups that have nothing in common other than the closely associated names.

Original Black Panther Party:

"Just to hate another person because [of] the color of their skin or their ethnicity — we don't do that. That's not what the goal objective is. The goal objective is human liberation. The goal objective is the greater community cooperation and humanism. The goal objective is to get rid of institutionalized racism...."

--Bobby Seale, founding member of the Black Panther Party

New Black Panther Party

"There are no good crackers, and if you find one, kill him before he changes."

"everybody always talk about Hitler exterminating 6 million Jews. . . . But don't nobody ever asked what did they do to Hitler?....They had undermined the very fabric of the society."

--Khalid Abdul Muhammad, so-called 'father' of the New Black Panther Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Khalid.html#Jews

I'm not convinced that either group was ever dangerous, but I can relate to the words of Bobby Seale. Khalid Muhammed was just a bigoted jerk with a message of hate, and the rest of the organization doesn't appear to be much better.

Sure the new black panthers are more dangerous, they have twiter and face book.

I don't think the New Black Panthers (all 7 or 8 of them) could organize an orgy in a brothel, let alone come up with the reward money they say they're offering.

No matter how people try to spin this a Kid was shot just walking home from the store, he was not looking for trouble and was completely Innocent and would have gotten home fine if Zimmerman did not approch and confront him, so how can anyone with an IQ higher than 75 blame the kid, talk about MORONS, people are either plan stupid or RACIST ....

Zimmerman refering to Martin as a "f'n coon" will be his undoing, and rightfully so since it speaks volumes about his mind set as he got out of his car in pursuit of Martin. I heard the tape as well as many others, including Zimmerman's buddy Joe Oliver, athough he tried to spin it as "f'n goon" then claimed it was a term of endearment.

TNRebel

It is the same difference as the case with Van Der Sloot or what ever his name is. He got off and killed again because of his Daddy and his connections. This should not be happening, but yet again we are talking about the South and Black People. I want to know why this kid's family wasn't notified when they had his Cell Phone?

AND why didnt the parents call the police and report TM was missing ? And theres the girlfriend... Why didnt she contact the parents ? she knew TM was being followed,,then his cell phone went silent. If she was worried, why didnt she notify the parents. Didnt TM live with his Dad ? There is enough blame on the police and g/f and parents to go around. The more I learn about this case, The dumber i become.. Too many things just dont make sense. For instance..WHY is the FBI starting another investigation, Whats wrong with the first one they investigated. I think they cant prove what happened So they move on to another investigation. So now they are asking people IF GZ was a racist ? This comes out AFTER a LEAK from some one in the SPD that said They Have PROOF that TM attacked GZ first. Orlando tv station reported that info.

Ok this has been reported on several times. (1) His father and fiance were at dinner when this all went down. They returned to the residence sometime around 10:30. Trayvon's father called his cell phone to locate him upon arriving home. Its been reported that his call went straight to voice mail. (I must point out that at this time the Sanford Police Dept was in possesion of both Trayvon's body and personal effects.)

(2) Trayvon's father assumed that his son went to spend some time with his cousin. He called the cousin, left a message for Trayvon to check in and went to bed.

(3) Upon waking early the next morning, the father stated that he realized Trayvon was still not home. He called his phone several times and called his cousin several times until he got a response. The cousin responded that he had not seen Trayvon. That is when the father called the police and was informed of his son's demise.

It would be funny TNREBEL if it didn't actually happen to me 8/1/67 6:30 am. I woke up to find my hometown in a race riot my neighborhood patrolled by the Nat Guard and my town under martial law. It was an arrestable offense to leave your property. And your civil rights were suspended. So maybe that mounted machine gun on that jeep wasn't 40 caliber maybe it was a 50 caliber it looked huge looking down the damn barrel at 6:30 in the morning.

Kid gets killed just going to the store and NO one should be arrested and some how it ends up the KIDS fault am I dreaming that so many will defend this. Well maybe one day it happens to someone you love and see how you feel then ...... And as far as this RACE spin that is BS, the problem is if Zimmerman was BLACK he would have been arrested in a blink of an eye, so YES it is about RACE of how justice is being dealt there in Florida .....

The National Media is in a frenzy to convict in the Press......a new article, without a comment section, that shows "things" in a different light...It is an MSN article link to our local news and it's worth the read:

"Prosecutor fires back at Trayvon Martin family"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46933932/ns/local_news-west_palm_beach_fl/

In it you can read about the so-called "audio experts" , and much more about the disinformation and allegations being made....Not all is as Al "Slim-Shady" Sharpton claims.

Justice comes from following the necessary steps to collect evidence, file charges, then allow the courts to do their jobs of hearing the evidence in the case.

I agree that this 'trial by media' sensationalism can indeed harm an investigation dearly.

That being said - it's nothing new. Notable trials have always garnered a lot of media attention, and the public has always tried them in their court of opinion.

Another thing of note though, the reason the public/media picked up on this in the first place is because it was swept under the rug. So the 'necessary steps' you speak of would have never occurred had the media not gotten involved.



In it you can read about the so-called "audio experts" , and much more about the disinformation and allegations being made....Not all is as Al "Slim-Shady" Sharpton claims.

What about the 'adio experts' as you put them in quotations? Voice identification technology is very reliable and quite accurate. It's been used in court for years. If the people who did the tests have given testimony in previous court cases, as is indicated in this article, their credentials must be pretty legitimate.

"There's a huge chance that this is not Zimmerman's voice," said Primeau, a longtime audio engineer who is listed as an expert in recorded evidence by the American College of Forensic Examiners International. "After 28 years of doing this, I would put my reputation on the line and say this is not George Zimmerman screaming."

(emphasis mine)

Owen, a forensic audio analyst and chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence, also said he does not believe the screams came from Zimmerman.

(emphasis mine)

Why do you put quotations around "audio experts" Mike? They appear to very much be audio experts. So why the scare-quotes? Is this akin to standard science denialism that seems to be the bread and butter for a portion of the country?

From the same article:

"He cited software that is widely used in Europe and has become recently accepted in the United States that examines characteristics like pitch and the space between spoken words to analyze voices. Using it, he found a 48% likelihood the voice is Zimmerman's. At least 60% is necessary to feel confident two samples are from the same source, he told CNN on Monday -- meaning it's unlikely it was Zimmerman who can be heard yelling.

The experts, both of whom said they have testified in cases involving audio analysis, stressed they cannot say who was screaming."

And standards set by the American Board of Recorded Evidence indicate "there must be at least 10 comparable words between two voice samples to reach a minimal decision criteria." While Zimmerman says more than that many words on his 911 call, the only one heard on the second is a cry for "help."

48% chance......60% chance....They cannot say who was screaming....software used widely in Europe.....

The media has been touting this as irrefutable "proof"

48% chance......60% chance

You don't seem to understand how the technology works. Most people get into the 40-50% range if they are the same gender and adults, which is why you need a higher likelihood to establish if it actually IS someone's voice. It's easier to discount someone's voice though, because if you have a large sample size (like they do with Zimmerman) and they only get 48%, it's almost certainly not Zimmerman's.

The media has been touting this as irrefutable "proof"

The media isn't touting it as anything, they are saying that the experts (they are indeed experts) are saying that they do not believe it is Zimmerman's voice. One of the experts is willing to put his reputation of 28 years in the field on the line in that it's not Zimmerman's voice.

software used widely in Europe.....

What does that have to do with anything? What's wrong with Europe? lol

@Rick-3608408

Were you there that you 100% know what happened? SInce you know what ahppened you should notify the investigators and let them know of your damning evidence...until then speculate quitely with your theories with your lynch mob mentallity, let the courts decide..not the media.

Shuklack...

I'm certain that when the FBI enhanced video from the police station show the cuts and bruises to the back of Zimmermans head you will have to agree that the jump to conclusions the media immediately made saying "no evidence" was also premature.....The reports of the EMS that treated Zimmerman "on scene" are also part of the evidence....let's see what those say....Just because they cancelled the call for a second ambulance means nothing.....Dispatch was told there was not a second gunshot victim, as had been earlier thought.

Truth Matters and so does Proper Justice....based on Truth....not Agenda's

I'm certain that when the FBI enhanced video from the police station show the cuts and bruises to the back of Zimmermans head you will have to agree that the jump to conclusions the media immediately made saying "no evidence" was also premature

That's not even what I was talking about. Why move the goalposts?

Audio....Video....what's the difference ??....

There is a big difference. Audio is the sound. Video is the picture. And to keep from going to the bottom of this slow moving page, why doesn't the black led FBI just investigate the facts of the shooting and what happened. Find out if Zimmerman's story matches up with the evidence. Whether he liked blacks osr not isn't the issue here. It is where the evidence takes them. All Holder is trying to do is make a "poor little ole black boy" case out of this and not just look at the evidence. He's looking at it from a race basis and not conducting a factual investigation. I can't wait until the elections and hopefully, Obama gets kicked out of office, but more than that, I want to see that BA Holder pick up his latest copy of the Black Panthers Weekly and leave the DOJ once and for all. It would be worth a ticket to DC to see him ride out of the Justice Dept on his broom stick on his last day. It will be a day to celebrate. I hope the new President kicks out every person in that dept and just cleans house. It's corrupt and biased and it's time to get some clorox and Lysol in there and start cleaning up!

The blatant racism evident in the posts of the right wing lunatic fringe help to explain...but not to justify...the virulent hatred directed toward our president. It is people like jo that are the reason the Republican Party is circling the drain.

President Obama will be reelected in November as the country turns away in disgust from the failed political and social ideology of the neo-conservative movement.

Ditto! President Obama will be reelected. Willard Mitt Rommny can go to to the Cayman Islands and count his Millions. He is not qualified to even be in the running. His own campaign manager described his as an "etch a Sketch". What a great description!

George Zimmerman will be arrested on multiple charges. The audio experts are as real as it get! Why would Trayvon's voice be in question, he did not say that it was his voice, Zimmerman said that it was his voice and that is why his voice was tested. The voice crying for help was not Georgie boy's voice!!

Hopefully, the FBI will uncover massive police corruption at the hands of Bonaparte, Lee and Papa Zimmerman.

I predict that Gerogie Boy will be charged and convicted!!!!

Racism is all about Power and Control. An ignorant low acheiver like Zimmerman has to exhibit some form of power over someone that he feel is beneath him to feel important or good about himself.

savannah rae

We will see where the election goes.. not sure if Obama will win or not... most likely will but we never know lately until after the Supreme Court for some reason in early December.

George Zimmerman will be arrested on multiple charges.

The ONLY one that counts is IF they list Manslaughter.. anything else is generally meaningless. The feds would need MS to go for a hate crime and otherwise have NO jurisdiction.

The audio experts are as real as it get! Why would Trayvon's voice be in question,

The "experts" software is being called into question.. maybe even to the point that previous "expert" OPINION may be brought into question... Seems the expert was working both sides of the coin as he wrote the software not just used it.

They need to use the SAME method to confirm it is Trayvon. If they can't do that, then the results are not valid. I think the current results are that it is only 48% probable to be George and the expert insists it has to reach 60 some percent. I don't know ALL the facts of the compare but I believe the sample of George was from a CLEAR recording in a normal voice and not someone yelling for help in the background of a 9-1-1 recording. The ONLY valid compare would be to have George stand in the same location in the rain and yell while being recorded from the same phone with the same person holding it to their ear. As your friends if you sound the same on the phone vs in person.

Hopefully, the FBI will uncover massive police corruption at the hands of Bonaparte, Lee and Papa Zimmerman.

Why are you HOPING for corruption? Do you have a need for a conspiracy or reason to dislike the Sanford police personally or are you just jumping on a bandwagon?

I predict that Gerogie Boy will be charged and convicted!!!!

We all have our predictions. I might even have some money coming my way if mine is right. The SYG law as written at the time of the incident says unless they can PROVE George did not have reasonable belief to fear injury or was in the commission of some OTHER crime they can't charge him in Florida per statute 776. The feds don't have jurisdiction other than as a civil rights issue. They can't prosecute homicide with the way 776 is written.

Racism is all about Power and Control. An ignorant low acheiver like Zimmerman has to exhibit some form of power over someone that he feel is beneath him to feel important or good about himself.

Your definition of racism is accurate.. Seems to apply the the Reverends if you ask me. Not sure it applies to George though. He seems rather involved with all races in a good way (other than the light cast on this incident). He has had his issues in the past but seems generally liked over the past few years in his neighborhood until now.

He had a permit and he was going to Target when he encountered Martin. Well since 7 robbers in my area on survielance tapes were all wearing hoodies. It would make me suspicious too.

There is suspicious and then there is - let me take my loaded gun and follow this suspicious person, against the 911 operator's instructions, and shoot him if he scares me.

Security work requires CLEET certification. Simple CW isn't enough. Considering Zimmerman's poor scholastic background of getting kicked out of junior college more than once, I don't think he could ever pass the CLEET requirements.

If he had, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

Works for me. Moral is, don't scare me. :)

If you look at anyone suspiciously, they will appear suspicious, regardless of how they look. Hoodie or not.

As far as Zimmerman being part Jewish.....so what? Everyone else involved was a non-Jew including all the blacks that WERE breaking into the homes. They are NON-JEWS!!

Scottrocks

Wow. Hate Jews much? Wait...you stated you did (basically) and then had the audacity to call others 'racist'.

Handle With care -

A Jew

You cannot put your hands on another person. This is breaking the law. This is a crime and Martin did just that. Both side made mistakes here. There is no probable cause for an arrest. If the one person is being assaulted and he shoots to defend himself well this is the letter of the law. The part of Z following M is a questionable mistake but I don't think that is a crime. The most the family may be able to prove is a civil case against Zimmerman. A criminal case is not likely.

Jim b, no hunting with you.

You people act like you were there. If Zimmerman was getting in his car, than how did the body get so far away from the car, behind the building in fact?

Why doesn't Zimmerman be a Big Man and come out and tell what happened in his own words instead of hiding behind his Daddy? Any so called man that feels sympathy for Zimmerman must be a coward himself. These are the acts of a coward... come out and tell your followers your side of the story.

He is a coward and he makes himself look even more like a Whimpering Murderer. He was a Big Man when he had a gun in his hand! Now all of a sudden he is scared!!

As usual you folks are wrong again his mother is Peruvian not Hispanic!

It doesn't matter what Zimmerman is or claims to be. Anyone, of any ethnicity/race/religion can commit a hate crime against another. It's not about the person who committed it, it is about the underlying sentiment the person felt/believes about his victim while he commits a violent act on the individual. For instance, a black man could kill another black man just because he is gay. That would be considered a hate crime.

Zimmerman is a white (race) hispanic (ethnicticity) of german and peruvian descent with a Jewish heritage who is American that was raised as a devote Catholic - his mother strictly raised him Catholic and he was an alter boy.

None of this has anything to do with him being an adult and suspiciously stalking a minor (Trayvon had just turned 17 in the first week of Feb) in today's world of Amebr alerts being necessary due to the insidious outbreak of child snatchers - some for their own sexual perversions, others for the sex film industry or prostitution (yes, boy are also forced into prostitution), others for only God knows what.

Apparently, from Zimmerman's consistent and documented propensity for physical violence and rage based confrontations, Aimmerman has been a "suspicious" person walking the streets of America for at least his entire adult life. Good thing he has a daddy who can get him out of binds like assaulting police officers in their line of duty, fiances who have had it with the physical abuse, clients of the security company who he picks ups and throws which result in physical injuries to their clients (picked up a woman and threw her, spraigning her ankle) ... and who knows what else.

The most damning aspect of the police video is it looks like he is at a party with friends. They do not keep him "restrained", he bounces about as he pleases until "called" to go in, he checks out the motor cycles and all this while strutting around like a rooster ... no signs of "crying ever since it happened" as daddy dearest likes to say.

If he does have any "injuries", I believe it is because his strict white jewish-german-american catholic daddy was really pissed at what he had to "clean up" this time.

This isnt about race, religion, ethnicticity even though it may have originated as such in G Zimmerman's mind .... this is about corruption in our judicial system and the severe breach of the trust Americans have placed within our judicial system that this case is shining a light upon.

Justice is supposed to be blind, BUT NOT TO JUSTICE ITSELF.

This is why people of all different colors, creeds, socio-economic backgrounds, ages and political affiliations are demanding Zimmerman be arrested.

This is why there must be FBI investigations.

Trayvon, as an American system was NOT afforded "equal protection" under the law because of Judicial corruption.

The same would have happened even if the kid shot was white since G Zimmerman still has the same father - an orange county retired magistrate judge whose friend from 50 miles away, the state DA, left his home on a sunday night during a "big game" made sure he was at the sanford police station when George arrived there.

Mom 1010

As usual you folks are wrong again his mother is Peruvian not Hispanic!

Please don't vote, stay home and keep on watching 'Jersey Shore'

Mom 1010

As usual you folks are wrong again his mother is Peruvian not Hispanic!

@ Mom 1010... The last time I looked at a map Peru is part of South America or Latin America.

Hispanic

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that originally denoted a relationship to Hispania - an ancient designation for the Iberian Peninsula. Over time, the term Hispanic has evolved from the ancient usage, now more broadly referring to any cultural connection to Spain.^[1] Specifically, the term describes the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by the Spanish Empire, usually with a majority Hispanophone (Spanish-speaking) population. This area includes Hispanic America or Latin America - including Mexico, the Spanish-speaking countries of Central and South America, and the Spanish-speaking island-nations of the Caribbean - but also includes other, non-American areas, such as Equatorial Guinea in Africa, and the Spanish East Indies. The degree to which the countries of the former Portuguese Empire, or Spain and Portugal themselves are included in the definition of the term can vary considerably.

Reading in Time mag about gun related legislation in Fla, article said that when concealed carry permits were established they screened for criminal records and mental illness. So, why would an assault against a police officer, even if pleaded down to misdemeanor, have not precluded Zimmerman from having a concealed weapons permit? Not to mention presumed history of alcohol abuse which would come under the mental illness umbrella (DSM IV includes alcohol abuse diagnostic codes plus the govt combined mental illness and substance abuse under one umbrella for the purpose of programs and funding).

Re: Hispanic (apparently this takes a long time to sink in for a lot of people)-I worked for the Census in 2010 and it was very clear that in terms of fed definition being Hispanic is an ethnic designation, not a race. And of course, there are places--like Miami--where Hispanic communities have plenty of clout.

this could be because the police and DA throw more charges on the law breaker than they can prove. Then they eventually throw a plea agreement in there and stick the law breaker with the ONE charge they can prove. It's called piling on. It happens all the time and the police hope that it will scare you into doing what they want you to do, which is plea bargain so they dont have to take the time to prove in court that you did everything they initially claim that you did.

All I can say is Zimmerman better be real scared, because if he is convicted there is a really different kind of justice in prison, even if he is not convicted his life is over as he knows it he will need to hide the rest of his life and will be always looking over his shoulder.

And if there is a trial and he is aquitted he'll still need to be "real scared"...... the "New Black Panther Party" has a Million Dollar "Dead or Alive" bounty on Zimmerman.....Where is Eric Holder and the DOJ on this one ??....That NBPP leader on the video should be arrested immediately for publicly calling for Vigilante Justice...."if the police won't do their job....we will"

Why doesn't Zimmerman be a Big Man and come out and tell what happened in his own words

One of two possible reasons:

1. He's waiting for the bruises to heal.

2. He doesn't have any bruises.

Or, there's always the possibility that he's afraid of vigilante justice running its course.

Rick Cain4150

Security work requires CLEET certification.

So which is it? He is neighborhood watch and should not have had a gun?

He is security and should have CLEET

He is a concerned citizen with a CCW and thus only needs to show he is capable of qualifying a target?

You get to pick one not blend all three.

@ SRMcMahon

Background checks look at CONVICTIONS not accusations. As far as we know George has never been cited for alcohol or drug related offenses never mind convicted. FL has a window of 3 years on domestic incidents as far as denying gun ownership or CCW.

ALL of that information is available online with a simple search if you had bothered to take the time to do a little research rather than pose a inflammatory, rhetorical, feel good about yourself question. I hope you managed to impress someone besides yourself with your posting.

Zimmerman has established a pattern of behavior. In addition ot his arrests, he was fired as a security person after engaging in overzealous activity. Those of you who are ignoring this cop wannabees aggressive behavior are coloring this to suit your own purposes.

The fact is that Trayvon Martin was doing nothing when he was targeted by Zimmerman. Trayvon ended up dead as a result of coming inot contact with Zimmerman while doing nothing illegal.

You also need to ask yourself why Zimmerman never even identified himself. Not to mention why he just did not wait for the police.

At best, this was the act of an incompetent cop wannabe. But, even mistakes shouold have consequences. Because no matter how bad it is for Zimmerman now, Trayvon is gone forever.

Those on teh right who are so concerned about unborn fetuses, seem to have little concern for the life of a born child.

Al

Those on teh right who are so concerned about unborn fetuses, seem to have little concern for the life of a born child.

I agree with that statement but don't see how abortion fits into this conversation. But since we are on the protection of life topic I find it amazing how the ZEALOUS anti choice are so quick to demand the death penalty.....

Zimmerman has established a pattern of behavior. In addition ot his arrests, he was fired as a security person after engaging in overzealous activity. Those of you who are ignoring this cop wannabees aggressive behavior are coloring this to suit your own purposes.

I for one am not saying George is perfect in any aspect.. Short of convictions or judicial commitments though patterns do not prevent someone from getting cleared to own a gun or denied a CCW. Your referring to his PRIOR behavior is many years in the past... hmmm lets see he was 22 around then or younger? I also believe the reference was when he was acting as security for "illegal" parties, perhaps underage drinking sponsored by his accuser?

The fact is that Trayvon Martin was doing nothing when he was targeted by Zimmerman. Trayvon ended up dead as a result of coming inot contact with Zimmerman while doing nothing illegal.

You also need to ask yourself why Zimmerman never even identified himself. Not to mention why he just did not wait for the police.

Well, doing nothing until he confronted George. Now being supported by police.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326_1_police-dispatcher-new-details-protesters

I guess the Sanford PD is getting tired of being dragged through the mud as well so is releasing more details.

At best, this was the act of an incompetent cop wannabe. But, even mistakes shouold have consequences. Because no matter how bad it is for Zimmerman now, Trayvon is gone forever.

I can't disagree that George may be a wannabe. Best worst is debatable. Trayvon is gone... no question there. I agree mistakes SHOULD have consequences... Unfortunately Florida law gives immunity in this situation unless they can prove George was in the act of committing a crime, other than shooting Trayvon.

BTW where is the Black community on this one?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-two-arrested-seminole-beating-20120402_1_victim-arrest-affidavits-crimeline

A PERFECT reason to carry concealed. Were these two "non racially identified" criminals dishing out justice in Trayvons name? Apparently we can't identify the race as it would be racial or not PC.

This isn't the same thing but close. My son was in the 5th grade attending a catholic school when he had his first encounter with the police. He was travelling with my wife when she decided to stop at the local drugstore to pick up something. When she got out of the car she locked it, forgetting that it had a passive alarm system. While inside, my son apparently moved enough to set it off. Amazingly, within a minute or two, two police cars arrived on the scene. They made my son get out of the car and questioned him extensively even though it should have been clear that he was no car thief. He had on his catholic school uniform, was sittin in the car doing his homework, and told them his mom was in the drugstore. They finally gave up and left. But, I kept thnking, What if he had dropped a pencil just as they rolled up and bent over to pick it up. They could have shot him and claimed a justifiable shoot because they felt threatened. The fact that he was an innocent child would have been lost in the legal morass.

Then would come the ineveitable question. Was this shooting because of racial profiling? Is there an assumption of guilt on the part of law enforcement officers particularly if the suspect is young and black? From a parental standpoint this may have little relevance if you have lost your child. The bottom line is the issue. But, on a macro level it does appear that blacks are more likely to be shot and killed in these circumstances than others.

Now comes 'stand your ground' and the parents of black males across the nation have yet another thing to worry about. Is someone going to see my child as threatening, take his life, and then and go home?

Zimmerman's attorneys are already trying to portray Trayvon as a man. He was 6-3 they proclaim. Before it is all over he will be as big as Shaq and Zimmerman would have course have had no choice but to shoot this behemoth.

This is teh problem. This is why Trayvon's parents needed national attention. Blacks do not control the narrative in this country about themselves. We are portrayed as criminals, druggies and dropouts. We are undervalued, underestimated and marginalized at every turn. The great black boxer Jack Johnson said it succinctly and eloquently many years ago when he was asked by the all white press in what round would he knock out an opponent. He replied-"If I knock him out in the first, you will say it was unfair, the man was in the ring with a gorilla. If I carry him until the fourth, you will say that is just like a lazy n-word."

The Sanford Police department and now Zimmerman's attorneys as well as the Hannity's of the world are trying to control the narrative. Without Sharpton and Jackson, Trayvon's parents do not stand a chance.

The 3 people above my comment are the scum of the earth! You think that the intentions of the parents of a murdered child are to make money and profit off of this trajedy? How about some justice for their defenseless son who's only crime was "......nothing"! No crime!

Stop giving white people a bad wrap and shut the He ll up!

"Not because Sanford did anything wrong"

Are you working for the sanford pd? or do you have blind faith? or hate capitalism?

Because of course we black people don't love or want our children. We wait for somebody to murder them so we can get rich. Curses, the jig is up!

Realisti woman don't even try to make sense of these sick racist in her posting. They will carry these horrible thoughts before the Holy One on Judgement Day right before they are ejected into a fiery hell for an eternity.

You think that the intentions of the parents of a murdered child are to make money and profit off of this trajedy?

Hocus, if the parents didn't want to make money from this why would the mother file for two trademark applications then.

Also Monday, an attorney for Martin's mother confirmed that she filed trademark applications for two slogans containing her son's name: "Justice for Trayvon" and "I Am Trayvon." The applications said the trademarks could be used for such things as DVDs and CDs.

The trademark attorney, Kimra Major-Morris, said in an email that Fulton wants to protect intellectual property rights for "projects that will assist other families who experience similar tragedies."

Read more:

Michael-528853

Realisti woman don't even try to make sense of these sick racist in her posting. They will carry these horrible thoughts before the Holy One on Judgement Day right before they are ejected into a fiery hell for an eternity.

Judgement and REVENGE are reserved for GOD so sayeth the Lord. Name calling of those who disagree with you solves little and only incites hatred. Judge not lest you be judged.

Do you seriously think you have Gods ear and can condemn someone to hell? I personally am quite comfortable when my time comes and do not fear Judgement, apparently you do.

Quit dragging religion in to a strictly earthly matter. If you have no facts to debate at least fall on emotions. You do NOT wield the power of God and certainly do not speak for God. If you did, you would be speaking for peace and healing, not hatred and division.

Trayvon's parents are so involved because of the money? That's a sickening take on all of this. This why I usually stay clear of un moderated MSNBC discussions.

The mother filed to prevent Trayvon's name being used by others. That is exactly what she said. If she proceeds in some direction for a profit enterprise, it would be justified to criticize. Right now it is conjecture. And the conjecture seems to have something to do with the fact that this is a Black American family. Would that come up if this was a White Family.

UR_STUPID.....

need I say more....

You do NOT wield the power of God and certainly do not speak for God. If you did, you would be speaking for peace and healing, not hatred and division.

No trust verify, but I know racist ranting when I hear them and I know God will condemn them.

Or Roseanne or w/e her name is?

Bounties are legal, provided you have the proper licensure.

trinitygal et al:

He was arrested a few days ago. Try to keep up.

Oh you mean that "actuall" 911 calll that was played? Is that the one you are referring toi? Get with it Cheryl, you're lagging way behind as usual.

And then are those who keep insisting that the cop said there were grass stains on the back of his jacket ..........the policeman says his "back" was wet and stained...he didn't say the word jacket.

The 911 dispatcher never told Zimmerman NO..do not follow this person. The dispatcher said, "We do not need you to do that."

Zimmerman could not have known about the cries heard on the recording of the other 911 call. He mentioned that HE was calling for help to the EMT person working on his injuries and the remark was overheard by the policeman.

The lady who called because she heard the fight said she knew it was Martin who was calling for help because after the shot she didn't hear the calls for help anymore....could just as easily have been Zimmerman who stopped calling because once he shot Martin, didn't need to be calling for help anymore...

Why doesn't Zimmerman just turn himself into the authorities so that they can charge him and have all the information come out in court???? He's not hiding from the law...he's hiding from morons like the NBP who put out a bounty on his head for a citizen's arrest. He's hiding from the nutcases who are out there looking for him and read things like Spike lee's listing of his supposed address on Twitter encouraging vigilante "justice" or idiots who read Roseanne butthead's post of his parent's address on her Twitter account....these are the idiots who need to be arrested...

Cheryl:

Did the dispatcher ask Zimmerman if Martin was an "f'n coon" or was that just an excited utterance he spewed while leaving his car to chase Martin down?

hey cherylm, what if the DA was a race baiter, who knows all the real facts to the case. what are you going say then?

I want to know what the H does Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman have to do with this article. Oj Simpson was arrested and went on trial for these murders. It was up to the Prosecution to find him guilty, they failed to do so. Zimmerman has not been charged with anything. Enough said. And If you want to March for a cause then get your asses out from behind the computer screen and let your voice be heard. I am just glad my family is not involved. There are no winners here. A mother has lost her child. That should mean something!

Zimmerman left his car with no identification that he was neighborhood watch. How was Trayvon to know he wasn't going to get mugged? If anyone is covered by stand your ground it is Trayvon. Zimmerman pursued Trayvon have police told him not to, then he left his car to confront Trayvon. It was Zimmerman that forced this situation into a fatal shooting.

The fact remains that the lead CSI investigator on scene with access to all witness accounts and evidence did not buy into Zimmerman's story. He recommended that he be charged for manslaughter. The District Attorney (Florida equivalent for a DA) over ruled him.

You can't go to trial without an arrest. You can't be arrested without probable cause.

UR_STUPID

The only racist is you.

"UNLESS you seat a racist jury"

Well, zimmer's dead. guess no fair trial here in the US.

Hey Mary52 would you want it to end if your child was gunned down and a proper investigation was not done. Wouldn't you want someone to help you fight for the truth. Because at the end of the day the only thing matters is the truth. It is up to the parents to be the voice of Trayvon Martin because he can't speak for himself. Zimmerman had no idea this would get this big. This man needs to be stopped. I wonder after he killed Trayvon did he return to being a guard. How many more people would this man kill claiming self-defence. We will never know because of the media attention.

really SB? What a short memory you have. Ever hear of Natalie Hollaway, Shondra levy, Jon Bennett Ramsey, Elizabeth Smart or Nicole Simpson? No, well no mind, white people never get coverage. Pffffft

So if this ended up the other way around you think the Kid would not be arrested, that is plain BS and you know it .... That is why its about RACE.

If it were the other way around, this would not be happening because the shooter would have been arrested and charged in the first place.

So if it not about race, why are you making about race?

Zimmerman turned this into a racial incident with the 911 call. did he not call him a f@#@ coon, and made sure the 911 dispatcher knew he was black. could he not have said a suspicious person. No because as soon as he saw the boy was black he stereotyped him and ran with it. All black people are not thugs. Neither is all white people racists. real talk

Also if Zimmerman was arrested and a thorougher investigation was done. This would not be happening. A you man was killed without an investigation. Zimmerman was slapped on the wrist. That is why it is such a big deal. We need to get to the truth. Regardless of what that law says Due process is important when anyone losses their life.

No SB because he would be in jail choosing between life or the needle. And in some places like Florida and Illinois the jailer would have hung him in his cell and called it a suicide.

IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO SUCKER PUNCH SOMEONE AND TRY TO KILL THEM.

based on the injuries Zimmerman sustained in the video, it's pretty clear that Martin in no way "tried to kill him."

Trayvon is THE ONLY PERSON WHO BROKE THE LAW.

not necessarily true. Following someone and confronting them can be considered "stalking" and/or "criminal harassment" if the person being followed feels threatened. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman.

It`s safe to assume that martin did NOT feel threatened in any way. martin never called 911 instead he called his girlfriend and was chatting with her, that proves that he wasn`t scared or feeling threatened.

He was on the phone w/ his g/f. He told her someone was watching and following him. His g/f told him to run and he said he would start walking fast. He WAS scared and tried to get away. He also cried for help before being shot and killed!

he had a phone, he did NOT call 911, he had at least 6-7 minutes to call 911 after he noticed someone was watching and following him, he didn`t call 911. he also had plenty of time to go back to his house after zimmerman lost sight of him, but he did not go back to his house, he turned around and headed in the opposite direction from his house, back to where he had last seen zimmerman. he wasn`t scared or feeling threatened.he was looking to start a confrontation.

If someone was following me I wouldn't be talking to my girl. I would do exactly what I did when I stepped between a mother and child and an aggresive male. Dial 911 and hold the phone in his face.

You might call 911, unless you're a young black guy who doesn't think the police are going to be on your side. That is an unfortunate fact, and the way this episode went down sort of confirms they may have reasons to feel that way. The facts make it clear that Zimmerman caused the confrontation, that Martin was not doing anything illegal and that he had a right to be where he was. Even if he punched Zimmerman it is reasonable to assume he was defending himself from an aggressive guy armed with a gun. Even after death, Martin (though unarmed) was treated as a suspect by the police, while Zimmerman was treated as the victim.

zimmerman has the right to walk around in his own neighborhood. The facts are clear that martin and zimmerman lost sight of each other for at least 2 minutes before martin sought out zimmerman,approached him and initiated a confrontation.

after they lost sight of each other martin had 2 choices:

1) continue south on the sidewalk and return to his house.

2) turn around and go back north,away from his house,to where he had last seen zimmerman.

he chose #2

Zimmerman supporters like tardacus-5615387 are now making up stories.

Zimmerman's 911 call was initiated at 7:17 PM EST and lasted 4 min and 10 seconds long.

Trayvon Martin was declared dead, after 3 intense attempts to "revive" him by EMTs and police, at 7:30 PM EST

In a matter of approximately 10 mins time (since part of the 911 call included hi getting out of the car and pursuing Trayvon since Trayvon was "getting out of sight"), Zimmerman complains that the "a_holes always get away" and belches "f'n coon" and a young boy is officially declared dead.

The police and EMTs were not on the scene at the time of the shooting, so lets give the EMTs a total of 5 minutes in attempting to revive Trayvon .... so in approximately 4 minutes after Zimmerman ends the 911 call, an unarmed, teenage boy doing nothing illegal is dead.

Where the hell did Trayvon even have a chance to fight back, never mind attack against an unlawful attack????

The 5 minuted I afforded the EMTs was 2 minutes to arrive at the scene and 1 minute for each of the 3 attempts to "revive" him before officially declaring him dead.

In my attempt to edit my post 13.10, i had to fight with the page to get back to my post and didnt make it back in time to edit. This is so far, the only site I must fight with to manever within and editing comments before posting and seeing it in its entirety is a joke.

I haven't seen any interviews with the Paramedics that treated Zimmerman and I would think that would shed some light on this case.

wrong wrong wrong not enuogh guns and besides GUNS DO NOT AND CANNOT KILL PEOPLE ITS A PERSON WHO CHOOSES TO ACTIVATE THE GUN THAT KILLS PEOPLE people are killed by other people sometimes with a gun most times with anything they can put their hands on. what we have is a grossly uneducated lot of people that do not understand weapons and have never been taught how and why We need weapons for our defense we need weapons for hunting we need weapons to protect from our enemies of constitutional rights. Please make sure you really understand the issues IT IS OUR RIGHT TO OWN A WEAPON IT IS NOT YOUR RIGHT TO TAKE IT AWAY.

I don't have a problem with Guns I'm a NRA member but what I do have a problem with is laws like the Stand your Ground, where a kid just going to the store was killed by a legal gun owner and people defending something that was totally wrong, you have to take a test to drive right, so maybe its about time that people be tested for the purchase of firearms .....

Yep, the law pretty much states that if you want to kill someone, you just hunt them down, make them mad and when they hit you, you just shoot them dead. You then claim that when he hit you, you felt that your life was in danger. Pretty stupid law!

I'm just glad I don't live in the same neighborhood as Mr. Stupid and Lonereb. Might have to get my own permit to carry just to feel safe around bigots that condone such criminal violence.

Especially since neither seem to have a basic grasp of elementary logical reasoning. Armed idiots are dangerous. Zimmieboy showed that.

@alsophia theophilos

Well put. Mr. Z's history so far, shows this guy is loose cannon, it was only a matter of when.

We have the racist police in Florida and now the FBI, I'll bet there will be no black FBI agents, this is the south were hunting blacks is tolerated. The sad thing is that this could go to the republican supreme court and the man could walk free. I wonder how many non-white police officers there are on the Sanford force, the police departments are becoming more and more white. In my home town not one non-white police officer and in the communities and towns around by home town there are no non-white police officers and the commuity I live in is extremely racists and I live in the western US. White police officers are scared to death of non-white citizens.

wow gary you sound like the people you claim are racist, they already put a black police chief in, the head of the FBI is Black what more do you want, i guess you dont trust whitey do you? you sound like a textbook racist

Gee in my area if you find a white police officer come tell me I want to see it.

That's right Mark but you have to have a brain to figure that one out, and what party passed that legislation, Oh right the RIGHT so that tells you how smart that law is ....

Seemingly 90% of the posters here think that only applies when they want it to.

Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

That's all most people want. But without the public outcry, this case would never have even been properly investigated, let alone seen a court of law...

Well, let's see this in a court of law then.

Have you heard about the black boy that killed two white boys in Florida recently?

The black activist community always supports their own. To them it is not a matter of guilt or innocence is simply Black and White. Of course The DOJ is involved. Heck even President Obama has chosen sides on this evidenced by his statement " If I had a son he would Look Like Treyvon."

sniper44-

Was he released without being charged? Because otherwise it's not really relevant.

People get text so twisted. If any of us have a son it could look like Trayvon Martin. It doesn't matter the color of ones skin. What matter is there a crime committed. If this was your child and someone told you that your child was killed because this other person defended themselves. Would you believe it? Would you let it go? NO one knows your children better than you. Wouldn't you want actual proof showing that this occurred. Or would you accept what the perpetrator said someone you don't know that has a history of domestic violence and run in with the law. Hmmmm SOUNDS FISHY

dont make idle threats idiot, DUE PROCESS, oh all you know is violence when you dont get your way huh, typical savage behavior

Where is the threat? Where is the violence?

Seems to be just in your head........ Is your last name Zimmerman?

3 civil rights workers were murdered once, the county, city and state let the murderers go free because they were white. Sometimes the Feds just have to step in when the local yokels don't do their job.

exactly, if that had happened to begin with no one would have to force the issue.

The parents are "working to force the issue away from criminal courts"? Are you kidding me? If this case had gone anywhere near a criminal court in the first place, there wouldn't have been all this outrage.

They'll have to arrest Zimmerman and convict him because people across the country already have in their minds. If they don't get what they want then violence will follow. Due process is irrelevant because the truth is irrelevant; he must be guilty in order to appease the way people choose to look at this issue and nothing less will satisfy