Don41331, stop it. Any time the race or ethnicity of a suspect can be shared, it is shared. You're looking for controversy where there is none.

My guess is that witnesses at a predominately Asian college can tell the differences between ethnicity.

Give it a few hours and soon you'll have the shooter's full name, address, and bio tweeted by Spike Lee and Rosanne. Since they are celebs you know what they say carries more weight than the, well gospel in this case.

Jews and Christians being gunned down. And the secular media and a lot of you as well call us intolerant?

It's pretty easy to identify a Korean if you are an Asian like me and like a large part of Oakland P.D.

I dont get it. Whats up with these people going up into these schools and universitys and shooting up people. I know times are hard but that doesnt mean you need to go somewhere and start shooting.

Reading some of the stuff being spewed here is truly unbelievable. And sezme is at the top of the list as being a five star jerk. Can't even contribute to a killing situation without bringing politics into it. Idiot.

How do you know he wasn't muslim? Muslim is a religion, black ie a race. I've know white muslims.. Seriously, get a grip..

ghettoforever

When did Korean people began to practice Islam? vegeta57-4618266 you are totally stupid.

@ghettoforever,

When did you become an expert at religion and it's application and limitations relating to cultural ethnicity?... you are totally ignorant, and obviously have never visited or read anything relating to Asia.

One stupid comment does not justify another on top of it, although to your benefit, that hasn't stopped the majority of people in here.

Thanks, Ginaa, for actually commenting about the article. I was wondering the same thing. Maybe it's just that school shootings get more press, but it is starting to become routine.

Meanwhile, the federal authorities are across town busting a school that teaches people how to grow weed. Glad we have our priorities straight.

Jews and Christians being gunned down. And the secular media and a lot of you as well call us intolerant?

Huh?

Did I miss something or are you trying to blame the media and us? Whoever "us" is... :>/

Prolly a Teapublican who didnt get his way, so he going to try and FORCE it down everyone throat

..............the article mentioned his political affiliation? I must have missed that part...........

I thought loaded guns were illegal in California.

Go figure.......

Why do people keep asking for more details? Its not as if there are more details and they are withholding information. As soon as there is more information, they will update the story.

Otherwise I can make up the details if you would like.

Voice of Reason-3459578 - Implying that this person is secular is quite a stretch at this point...don't you think?

"did Cho Seoung Hui have another evil brother ?"

Chairman Mao did it!

Although the perpreator's religious affiliation likely has no bearing on the situation I offer the following:

In the interests of accuracy, there are approximately 30-35K Korean Moslems. They have a mosque in the Seoul neighborhood of Itaewon. Some have been practicing Islam since the Korean War. A small majority of Koreans lay claim to any religious affiliation but those that do are primarily Buddhists or Christians (and in fact Korean Christians have a great deal of political clout in South Korea).

So my point is: please, please, please before you make any kind of assertions or remarks, (even those disguised as questions) check your facts. As it is the odds are greater that the allegedly Korean (and for all I know he is US born) shooter is Buddhist or Christian, if he lays claim to any religion at all.

Geez people.

What's all of this about race, get off of that. It is sad when someone shots another HUMAN being because they can or have the tools to do so. Got off of this race crap.

This was the work of a white Korean atheist muslim teapublican acting in self defense who probably works for the main stream media. I agree with some of the people on here. You all sound equally ridiculous regardless of party line. In addition, if you are picking and choosing which absurd comment to lambast then you're just as guilty of stupidity and the perpetuation of this idiocy as the people making the initial stupid comment. I think America needs some valium.

RMJ, historically until the 1700s or so. Then the Age of Reason came about, and lo and behold, it turned out people just enjoy murdering, religious or not. Try looking up the French Revolution and Communist nations throughout the 20th century.

bb...there is nothing in our founding documents that actually sepertes church from state. What it does is forbids a national religion (which is what seperates us from, for example, the Islamists). You can completely respect the "seperation of church and state" without having to leave your belief systems at home or at church.

It was a male in his 40"s who gunned down people at a school.

A tragedy for sure, does any of the religious or ethnicity stuff really matter? A human went berserk and screwed up many families lives, let them grieve without prejudice.

Alan Pugh

Don41331, stop it. Any time the race or ethnicity of a suspect can be shared, it is shared. You're looking for controversy where there is none.

The subject of "Race" and/or "Ethnicity" is not shared, IT'S USED;..... it's used as a tool to sell smut, a tool to promote and insight the racial disharmony that exists in our country. The lame stream media need's this kind of tool to increase viewership and sell their garbage.

I am well traveled and have lived in other country's (Plural). Racism exists in every country of the world, only a fool would dumb enough to believe that it only exists or predominatly exists in America. If you're 1 of those fools, you can thank your parents, Michael Moore and the lame stream media for keeping that belief alive and kicking in your soul.

Here's something you can take to the bank..... the existance of "Cultural Bigotry" aka, "Racism" is not limited to the United States of America; It is in every City, Town and Village of every Country in the World. It is only here in America where it gets blown out of proportion and used as an instrument to sell the idea that we are an evil country. We are not, we are and were born as a culturally diverse nation, where people are free to believe in a diety or none at all, regardless of race, culture or ethnicity. Don't let a few bad apples contaminate your mind, Live Free or Die.

Wake up America! Five human beings have been slaughtered while going about their business and all we can do is make snide remarks. May God rest their souls! May we find a solution to end the madness of gun violence and the system where people who have no business owning a gun, own dozens.

Right now, with the present system, the only question to ask is: Who is next?

Thank you guys and gals (you know the ones you are), You have helped me decide that life is too short and to waste time reading assinine comments is just not worth it. It's a shame too, Newsvine used to be a nice place to come for great conversations about the news of the day, but now it's turned into just one big troll-fest.

Oikos says it aims to educate “emerging Christian leaders” and offers courses in theology, music, Asian medicine and nursing.

This is certainly a tragic event, and I sincerely hope for the best for the victims and their loved ones. That said, I found the above description of the school's curriculum fascinating. One rarely, if ever, thinks of a Christian university as promoting the study of Asian medicine. I suspect it has something to do with the general demographics in the Bay Area with a large Asian population. Interesting nonetheless . . . at least I thought so anyway.

The last paragraph states "Oikos says it aims to educate 'emerging Christian leaders" and offers courses in theology, music, Asian medicine, and nursing."

I mean this sincerely when I ask how this could possibly enhance or be relevant to the situation? Look at the great courses that are offered at this school. Btw, 5 people dead and many more injured by a lunatic. Also, wth is with all the racial and political comments? These people are minding their own business when all of a sudden, BAM! A f*****g bullet rips off part of their brain. Now I ask you, do you really think they give a d**n about the race or politics of the sob that shot them?

I am well traveled and have lived in other country's (Plural).

I know I can safely stop reading when someone thinks the word "country's" is the plural form of the word "country."

Amazing, so much venom from some people. Don’t forget people were murdered today at that school. I guess it would be pointless to suggest a prayer for them and their families, at least from you.

You people who are attacking Christian values and the 'right-winged nut jobs' seem to be more interesting is disparaging a group of people that you don’t agree with. You disgust me.

BB,

To claim that a bombing of a abortion clinic was committed by Christians shows how little you actually know of the faith. We are told not to kill and to love, so someone might use Christ's name to justify what they did, but this is by no means a christian act, in fact Christianity explicitly teaches against such acts. As for people claiming this was a atheist or Muslim, this is about as stupid as the Tramon Williams case where there is nothing but speculation, and people have already tried and convicted someone without the evidence.

This is a sad event, and it seems like people are getting more and more embolden to strike out at Christians, and it is not surprising because a coward will usually bully someone whom they know will not strike back. You can torment us, we will pray for you. You can kill us and others of of faith will forgive and pray for you. To state Christians are terrorist is stupid, but to state that some falsely claim to be Christians and kill sadly is true. But like it or not, unlike the Koran you will never find anyplace that states it is OK under any circumstances other then self defense to take a life, and it even goes farther to state that if one is trying to kill you for your faith you are not to retaliate. So please stop the hating and instead say a prayer, and if you do not believe in prayer at least have the respect to give these poor kids some sympathy.

Take all guns away. All guns need to go!

So it has come to atheists killing Christians now.

kevin t. because the shooter was (probably) Korean? you do know that many Koreans are Christian(or probably you don't and it's just your biased ignorance showing) the predominant religions in S Korea are Christian and Buddhist, and buddhists very rarely shoot anyone, they are more likely to set themselves on fire in protest against what they perceive as an incredible and intolerable wrong. christians are far more likely to start shooting people than buddhists

or maybe this was just another nutcase that snapped like the virginia tech shooter and religion has nothing to do with anything that happened here

Just another power struggle and innocent suffering.. What was the justifiable reason? Murder,theology, music, Asian medicine and nursing or not believing ?

"I know I can safely stop reading when someone thinks the word "country's" is the plural form of the word "country.""

LOL! IKR?

"or maybe this was just another nutcase that snapped and religion has nothing to do with anything that happened here"

DING! DING! DING! I think we have a winner..........

I only want to say this is so sad and my prayers are with the families of the one who have been shot/killed. I DO NOT CARE WHAT RACE THE SHOOTER IS PERIOD ALL I CARE IS THAT PEOPLE ONCE AGAIN HAD TO PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE BEING ANGRY FOR SOME REASON AND EVERYONE ELSE PAYS THE PRICE. this should not be about race or religion it should be about how again we are losing people due to someone being pissed off for some unknown reason (at this time) and yet there is NO REASON for a person to go shoot others. again I pray for all the victims and there families.

Someone wondered why schools and colleges keep getting shot up. Well, first of all, the shooters know that there won't be anyone shooting back!! Nothing like a gun free zone to go berzerk in.

going out on a limb:

this was about a heterosexual male who was burned by a heterosexual female, perhaps a teacher?

he went in to kill her, and took a whole bunch others with him

AS SUCH, WE SHOULD BAN HETEROSEXUALITY SINCE IT TENDS TO RESULT IN EVILS LIKE THIS.

pretty logical huh?

The person who did the shooting is a sociopathic predator and blaming all his or her failures on someone else. I doubt very much if race was any kind of issue in this tragedy but it seems that some people are determined to widen the racial division using assumptions and rumor to advertise their own bigotry. This is just as sad a commentary on our country and people as the shooting itself.

@AZDADDY

I thought loaded guns were illegal in California

The only pertinent comment here.. This incident will be made about "gun control" when the fact is, the "law" doesn't stop people from being criminals, least of all crazy people who go to a school and gun down students. Somehow it would be less of an issue if this guy quietly kidnapped 5 students and cut their throat or just drive through a crowd of students, neither of which would have involved a gun. In that case it would have been about the guy being crazy, but it won't be, it will be about guns and how there needs to be more laws to control them.

Police and laws are made to capture and prosecute criminals after the crime is committed, not to prevent the law from being broken. (crime prevention is based on morals and values, which ironically enough is what religion teaches). Sadly our schools teach the kids to run away and find the nearest authority, which in real life is usually 45 minutes to an hour away, rather than to teach them to deal with it. I am betting one of the last thoughts through each of these student's heads was "where are the police", or "how could this happen" when it should have been "how can I stop this maniac" or "I wish I had a gun".

It truly makes me sick to see something like this happen, and I have all the sympathy in the world for the families of the students who lost their lives. But the truth is, this will become another "gun control" issue, and that makes me just as sad.

It's absolutely lunatic that people here are so quick in blaming Muslims for any such event that takes place. If anything, the religion of this person has not even been identified or mentioned in the article. Also, I just wanted to correct one person here...Islam is the religion, Muslim is someone who practices the religion of Islam. Hope that helps.

What really upsets me is that if a Christian guy (just as an example) commits any act of terrorism, he becomes part of the Fanatic Christian group, but if a Muslim guy commits such an act its the ENTIRE Muslim community that becomes responsible for that One person's acts...talk about double standards

In any case, really sorry for the families who lost their loved ones during this attack...I truly hope n pray that this violence comes to an end as soon as possible and we as humans learn to live with one another even when we have some differences

countries - plural form country's - possesive form

My heart goes out to those affected by this tragedy, and reading the above bickering and disrespectful comments on a breaking news story about people who were mercilessly murdered only hours ago is officially making me never even click to see the comments on this site again. Absolutely disgusting.

You know there are likely friends and relatives of this university's students checking for news and updates on loved one's, right?

Allan - don't argue with ignorance. I've lived all over the world, too, and I can tell you the level of ignorance here in America is astounding! We probably have access to more information than any place on the planet, but what we don't know about other countries and cultures blows my mind. In addition, a person will have a particular experience, and think that it applies to everyone! That is very typical of American thinking.

Dan, I don't know what news station you're looking at, but my news station mentions race all the time -- if they know it. Further, you sound kind of disappointed that the shooter wasn't black or latino.

DaveK @1.66 - thank you. Well stated.

WTF? WTF?

What is going on w/people? It's like a monthy thing...it's bad enough this happens, but then you come here to vent or get some info...I mean you have to admit it is kind of cathartic to have everyone here and discuss crap like this, but this also brings out the racists and political whiners...

Don41331 Korean is not a race, they are Mongoloid, just like the Chinese, Mongolians, Japanese, etc.

AZDADDY

I thought loaded guns were illegal in California

thanks for brining gun control into this - as if there wasn't enough of people bringing: religion, race, ethnicity, politics, and nationality and other topics that have NOTHING to do with this.

Seung-Hui Cho of the Virginai Tech massacre is also Korean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Not sure what that says, but...

Not too much sympathy here for the 5 kids (or more) that were killed, that's a real shame! Our thoughts should be for the victims and their families!

Dawn-2740882

Dear sez me u whacko,

I think you should spend some time brushing up on your spelling / grammer...

Um, it's grammar. Perhaps next time you should learn to spell it before going off on other people.

I agree with those posters who have said that they are disgusted that a story of such a tragedy only brings out the pathetic and agenda driven nitwits. They don't have compassion, they aren't saddened, all they have is an agenda which they interject into any and every story. Bee colony collapse? Sharks?Jobs? these and any subject are used as an excuse to bring out the politics or the gun control or the teaparty or OWS etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Crawl back in your caves and nurse your petty grievances, your obsessive agendas are your problem, seek counseling or get a hobby and/or a life. This is a story about one person killing seven other people, murdering seven other people. This is not about politics, gun control, republicans or any other issue.

Deepest condolences to families and victims of this tragedy

@bb-1100254: Ever since they heard that the Muslims believed they were supposed to spark Armageddon, the religious freaks have been out in force to make sure they get their licks in before the Muslims end the world. Or didn't you know that? *rolls eyes* no one knows why anyone snaps. My guess is too much preaching, coffee, and the guy was probably expelled or going to be.

"It truly makes me sick to see something like this happen, and I have all the sympathy in the world for the families of the students who lost their lives."

Oh, hogwash! Those who keep insisting that decent gun control legislation means the Liberals want to take away all the guns don't even understand the issue.

Your sympathy ends just at the point where you believe others want to confiscate firearms. You wouldn't give up your version of the 2nd Amend. for anything, right or wrong.

I am so fed up with the 'patriots' and the 'Constitutional scholars' who are eagerly supporting death by gun in the name of American rights.

Miked the first reports said 5 dead and injured.... It is 7 killed, 7 were murdered and 3 injured... and all the bloggers want to do is discuss race, religion, and of all things grammar! Shame on you!

As mygirl1 said "Deepest condolences to the families and victims of this tragedy!"

. They don't have compassion, they aren't saddened, all they have is an agenda which they interject into any and every story. Bee colony collapse? Sharks?Jobs?

mygirl1, obviously the guy lost his job due to a bee colony collapse brought on by a shark attack, and then had a psychotic break...

LOL

danwill: You could be onto something...

Don41331 If he was a "black male", it wouldn't even be mentioned. That's politically incorrect

According to who? Because the first thing you look for is to see if the person is non-white so you can try and justify your rascist views. If the suspect were white what would you say then....nothing?

Don41331

Don41331, stop it. Any time the race or ethnicity of a suspect can be shared, it is shared. You're looking for controversy where there is none.

Bullsh!t, Alan Poo. They would rather let a suspect escape than reveal the guy's race on TV. I've seen it time and time again.

They're not doing the public any service by keeping that information from them. Just because some libtard kissy ass is worried about media image.

Exactly who is "They", and how is telling you the persons ethnicity or "race" going to help you catch someone? I can just see you now: The police release a description of a suspect and you go out and do what? Call the police for every person you see that you think might be the suspect? Grow up.

Jeff about the person who made the comment " and you call us intolerant" He is just reacting to the things he reads on blogs all the time. Christians get inundated with people who blame us for things that happen more than five hundred years ago as if we are personally responsible. It kind of wears on you when anything that happens bad gets blamed on Christians even before people find out if anybody there is a christian or was one at one time. According to the majority of people on blogs we are all intolerant, racist, bullies etc.

Prior to my admission to a State University Baccalureate Nursing Program, it was a requirement that we undergo a complete physical examination by the University Health M.D., obtain all current adult Immunizations including yearly TB skin screenings. If this shooter was a Nursing Student, the student(s) report of him appearing strange should have alerted the class Instructor who would indeed HAVE to be a Registered Nurse with Clinical Experience. I find it diffficult to conceive that a student would go unnoticed in a Private College "Nursing Class." By experience and education, Nurses are extremely observant especially at non verbal behavior. Where was the Instructor's observation skills in this situation? I know that Nursing Education has declined as well as overall education in this Country. Seems as though this incident may have been intervened at an earlier period in time. Individuals don't just carry handguns to college classrooms and "lose it" in the moment. Someone had to have been tracking his behavior. If not, shame on the entire Nursing Department. There will be at least seven wrongful death lawsuits filed against this particular school.

The "shooter" is Insane like the jerk at VaTech EXCEPT he didn't whack 33 people this time. They better catch the @$$H0LE Otherwise he might be thinking about setting a new record..

NO Specualtion. The "shooter" is an @$$H0LE Loser who didn't get his daily big mac&Fries.

"I am so fed up with the 'patriots' and the 'Constitutional scholars' who are eagerly supporting death by gun in the name of American rights."

YES, The second amendment gives the right to BEAR arms, not USE them in a public setting.

White feather, shame on you for not reading the article!! The shooter was a FORMER student of that school and the person interviewed wasn't sure if he had dropped out or was expelled...really people, how do you respond to something you haven't even read?

U WACKO, you got it wrong, I know you meant the democraps.

My sympathy to the victims and their families.

That being said... FVCK IT! I'm not going to read the article and will give this only minimal attention. I guess I've become a bit jaded with these "Mass Murder of the Week" crimes, and unlike MSNBC I have no intention of giving the killer any attention- even for profit. Another POS murderer gets front page national attention and their ego gets jerked off by the "news", and encouraging & assuring that this week's whacko becomes next week's mass murdering headline. Disgusting.

mcb-2773914

Let me ask you - Which right are YOU willing to give up? First? Fourth? Seventh? I want to know. Which right are you willing to have someone - in the name of "safety" - restrict? You seem to believe that if you go after one right all the others will be left alone, especially if it is "someone else's" right. All of our rights are under attack. You outlawed hate speech thinking it will make a better world but you just drove it underground and onto the Internet (example - read some of these and other posts). Look at any one of our rights and you can find someone trying to either restrict it or banish it outright. Our own government has been sued and is suing states in order to enforce what they should be states rights. As far as the 2nd Amendment, it has been screwed with enough, even the SCOTUS has upheld it.

Suzy

Lets see... California is a MAY issue state so not likely he had a permit to carry. It is ILLEGAL to bring a weapon onto a campus of ANY school in CA unless you are an on duty peace officer. What other laws would you like to have that would have prevented this?

This reminds me of what Chris Rock once said, and it makes perfect sense in light of yet another tragedy where a nut with access to firearms kills innocent people. Chris is right...charge $5000 for each bullet and you would see how quickly this madness would come to an end.

My guess is he was probably a student. it seems like most school shooters are themselves students at the school they're shooting up.

Lets get some more details, msnbc!

Suzy Delgado,

re: post 1.90

"The second amendment gives the right to bear arms, not use them in a public setting."

Within reason I disagree with you. People who bear arms have a responsibility to the public to interfere when some criminal is putting another citizen in fear of life & limb. Rights ALWAYS have corresponding responsibilities.

So.....gun control works well in CA? How about letting mature students train and carry concealed? Would it be possible that a few of these poor people now dead might be alive if the shooter was taken out? No? I know, the lefties want to take all the guns away from all citizens to solve the problem. I can't wait to hear gun control screams from the trash news organizations very soon. How will Obama spin this one?

Now is the time for Guns in the hand of responsibile non felons in Calif. If everyone carried and knew how to use it there would be less crime. I live in a town that requires every homeowner to have a gun in their house and know how to use it. It is a law. We have no crime that is reportable. When you let just the insane or criminal have guns things like this will happen. Wake up sheeple!!!!!

From what the injured witness described about the shooter, he is quite possibly mentally ill - his condition was observed before he shot anyone as very troubling.

Angie Johnson told the San Francisco Chronicle that she saw a young woman leave the building with blood coming from her arm and crying: "I've been shot. I've been shot."

The injured woman said the shooter was a man in her nursing class who got up and shot one person at point-blank range in the chest before spraying the room with bullets, Johnson said.

"She said he looked crazy all the time," she said the victim told her, "but they never knew how far he would go."

It wouldn't be surprising to later learn that school officials knew this man had an untreated serious mental illness, as this victim did. This is a tragic and sad loss of lives that perhaps could have been prevented if this man had been in a proper mental hospital setting. The stigma attached to mental illness many times puts the families of the perpetrators in a seemly helpless situation and often partially or completely detached from their mentally ill relative. If this man had been observed with his eyes bugging out and aggressive behavior in class then why was he allowed to roam freely around the campus after no longer being enrolled in the school?

What can be done in the future to screen students for serious mental illnesses and prevent them from harming other students and faculty? Why couldn't metal detectors be utilized to screen for firearms in both private and public college buildings?

Lastly, if this gun was registered to the deranged shooter then it's another example of why there should be tougher background checks in place for gun purchases.

Apparently the racists who posted above (no need to clarify which ones, it is self evident) feel it is okay to be racist.

And they wonder why laws are written the way they are....

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE.....PEOPLE WITH GUNS KILL PEOPLE ..... you can't control people but you can control guns.....mind you I am a gun owner and a hunter, but according to the NRA we can't do anything to control the ability of people to acquire them without it leading to the total destruction of the American Way...let the killing continue.

People kill people. I'm keeping my guns. Don't blame guns, blame these people pulling the triggers. Bottom line, someone commits a crime like this, and they KNOW for sure he did it. CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. Close our borders. NO MORE IMMIGRANTS. Deport all ILLEGALS.

all of the post above and not one asking for or showing compassion for the Victims.what a sad state we have slid into.

@Joe Fake Veteran says
According to who?

According to the local news media outlets who are afraid of "stereotyping" and don't want something like a little "facts" to get in the way.

Because the first thing you look for is to see if the person is non-white so you can try and justify your rascist views. If the suspect were white what would you say then....nothing?

If the suspect was white, they would say something. That was my point, dumb ass.

The police release a description of a suspect and you go out and do what? Call the police for every person you see that you think might be the suspect? Grow up.

If I saw someone who looked suspicions who was in the immediate area and matched their description, yes I would make a call. What would you do? Let him get away? Do nothing?

Of course you would. That would be the politically correct thing to do. Let a black criminal get away just so you can stick it to whitey. Just so you can stick it to the man and the justice system.

It criminal coddlers like you who make me puke.

@Chris.....LOL..very good!!

David.... so sad but true...

Chris.. thanks for the laugh!!!!!

My guess was a xenophobic extraterrestrial gynecologist who has a problem with Christians because Jesus was actually one of his species.

Oh, and the aliens are muslims too.

420 Frees The Mind...proof that it in fact, does not.

And no, while religion (of all beliefs, including Pagan) have caused a huge amounts of death, it is not in fact true that it ha caused the MOST. But since you made it a statement of fact, please provide us with the numbers of deaths caused by religious reasons as well as those caused by all other reasons, so that we can see for ourselves the information that you obviously have access to.

LOL....So there are some smart witty people out there.....this is the EXACT mischief My faith and religion tells me to avoid. Religion does not Kill people...either be ISLAM CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM. People KILL people in the name of religion...its all about power and control, just read the posted comments above, notice how things are being controlled with half a$$ info just thrown out at you and you to get twisted, and get ready for the NEXT time.... and do something stupid yourself...this is what control is....

dan, I have to agree with you. I'm not religious, but most religions have a core system that teaches people to treat each other well and then some within some particular religion twist things to their own advantage and then to violence. the same can happen when you take any idealogy to an extreme

it's not the religion or the ideology that kills, it's the people misusing it

Then tell your religion to stop brainwashing people, and the problems will disappear.

Let the speculation begin.

and then start the trial twenty minutes later. Facts don't matter. Everyone commenting on this already knows them. They're all different, but in their minds, right. And for the love of pete, why is the first thing out of people's mouths is race?

420 Frees the Mind

Religion has killed more people in the name of it than for any other reason in recorded history.

Religion is more or less a form of government, and it is the leader who drives men, in the name of the religion, to war. You take something someone believes in, and you can twist it to make people do what you want them to do, whether it be killing, committing crimes, or just being peaceful. It doesn't matter if it is religion, family, or patriotism, it merely has to be something they feel strongly about. The point is, if you blame religion, you might as well blame the gun the man used to kill these 5 students. Blame the person behind it, not the tool he used.

The fact is, religion has probably saved FAR more lives than were ever taken in it's name. As a form of government and control, it prevents people from taking what the want without any conscience, whether that be his neighbor's food, his neighbor's wife, or his neighbor's life. MOST people have a set of morals that was ingrained into their personality from birth onward, and that set of morals and values prevents them from committing an act like this. As I stated in a post above, it is the morals we are taught (usually via religious beliefs) that prevents crime FAR more than any law or policeman will. The law is about punishing those who break it, the morals keep you from breaking it in the first place.

As a drug user, you probably don't believe in laws and rules, or at least believe it is your right to selectively choose which should apply to you and which shouldn't. This man is not much different, he selevtively chose to believe that killing 5 people should not be a something he was restricted from doing. Whether something was wrong in his head (sociopath) or he was raised with very loose morals when it came to human life, it is tough to say. Either way, he is not an example of any race, religion, or "lack of a law", he is a crazy person. I could argue that millions are killed each year to bring you your "420" break each day, but that wouldn't be as controversial as gun control or religious nutcases, and not as exciting to post about, right?

@tony -- because this is America, that's why.

@Dave - lighten up on 420. He's a medical user for an injury he received while serving this country. You make a lot of assumptions about his moral character based on laws that you think he is breaking (which it turns out, he is not). But then again, you're probably a "saint" who has never, ever broken any laws. And what does the Bible say about that? My Bible says that one sin is just as bad as the other -- no difference.

and..what's that got to do with it? Is the USA the only country with racial problems due to it's diversity? Don't think so. Maybe we should get some facts before judging.

Well, Tony, you asked and I answered. Sorry, if you don't like the answer, but from where I sit and from what I see, every time a crime is committed, the racial hatred is spewed and assumptions are made all over this board!

And I, like you, ask the same thing: why does everything boil down to race? Yes, there are racial problems all over the world, but for a country where everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, we certainly are consumed with race. I know of no other country, where citizens of one race were forbidden to marry other citizens if they were from a different race! I know of other countries where they have these laws based on religious beliefs, and it may be socially unpopular to marry someone of a different race, but it wasn't against the law!

The only other country that may have had these kinds of laws was Nazi Germany. Go figure.

All right, John Baynor 2.10.

Hey, fellow Christians! Stop brainwashing people! Funny, I didn't see any problems disappear.

And to the families of the dead and injured, I am very sorry for your loss

It is illegal under federal law - but not under state law in 16 states & btw it is not a sin either.

personal sounding boards here only, anyone wanting to leave a real message please stand aside.

sad when another person takes another persons life, period. if life not important, then no one matters (and i know i do matter)

this is why killing life is wrong, period. wether it be in this manner, death penalty or abortion. taking of a life or killing life is wrong.

No 420 we just are watching our backs around people like you.

Wow, Dave, I've never met anyone who has never broken any laws --- NEVER.

I guess you always drive the speed limit, huh? Never got a ticket, huh? Well, I must say that I'm impressed. Always tell the truth, too, huh? Wow, you are some kind of special.

The most honest, hardworking, patriotic, generous, Christian person I ever knew was my aunt -- and even she got a speeding ticket! Guess her breaking that law cancels out all the good she did when she walked this earth.

WWJD?

john

It is illegal under federal law - but not under state law in 16 states & btw it is not a sin either.

Actually it isn't even illegal under federal law... same as tobacco. it is illegal to possess either without a federal tax stamp. Just no luck on getting that stamp.

DaveK - I would trust a pot smoker to think with reason before I'd trust a sheep who would be used by religion or government or corporations or any other idiology that demands it's followers accept government making laws pertaining to what an individual can do or put inside their own body. Pot is still illegal in 34 states BECAUSE of political leaders who criminalized it to opress two minority classes - read up on it. It was reinforced by both Nixon and Reagan as a means for government income EVEN AFTER GOVERNMENT COMMITTEES SUGGESTED IT BE DECRIMINALIZED.

I hold myself to a higher standard than the government requires of me. But I have no respect for the "war on drugs" or the people who have benefited from the scam, or the foolish sheep who would support an unjust law.

@Kat - kudos for reading my response.. oh wait, nevermind. Next time, before you go off, read the response instead of the first couple lines before you respond.

We are ALL hypocrits. Every one of us. Before anyone goes pointing the finger, you should take a HARD look in the mirror, then once you have justified your own actions, read a little history. Then perhaps you can form your opinion and not just blurt out some crap you heard once. Hypocritical Libs who criticize religion while usually practicing nearly everything that Christianity teaches us are a good example.

I know I am a hypocrit - When I was first starting out and had my first kid, I used food stamps, yet today I feel that people who are on welfare don't deserve my tax dollars. When I was younger, I had more liberal values, as most young and inexperienced people do. As I grew up and raised kids of my own, I became far more conservative. That makes me somewhat of a hypocrit doesn't it.. I have broken the law (as I stated clearly above for those who can comprehend the written language of American English), and there are laws I personally feel I am above. I can admit that long before I write my feelings about drug users. I even have friends who I consider very close who are adamant drug users. I disagree with their lifestyle, but I would defend them if that lifestyle were to bring them harm. I believe if you do the crime, you do the time, yet if my son or daugters were arrested for something, I would do everything I could to get them out of it.

Yes, I am a hypocrit. But I am not so brainwashed as to write off the beliefs of the majority of the human population as a load of BS and the cause of most of the pain and suffering (or deaths) in the world. I don't look at one politician and assume that everyone who supports him has the same exact beliefs and views, just that of the choices, they are the best for the position in my opinion. I don't paint every race with one broad stroke, although I know enough that stereotypes come from truth. I don't look at a few CEO's of major corporations and assume every business owner is a criminal looking for more money, and realize that business is what this country's economy is founded on and the harder you make it to do business in this country, the worse off EVERYONE is. I don't see banks as the only cause of the depression in our economy, I blame the homeowners who bought more than they could afford just as much if not more. Yes, my views are conservative in nature, but at least they are not short sighted and one sided.

@OHC

I have read plenty, and experienced plenty. I have watched it ruin my son's life, and watched him get off it and start to become productive and put his life back together again. I have watched close friends have to inject urine into their bladder to pass drug tests at work. I have seen people get fired from their jobs for using it. I have seen how kids in school get hooked on it and how their grades plummet. Talk to some teachers about it sometime instead of reading your articles in High Times or Liberals Monthly. I have seen the crime it brought to our state when it was snuck in on a minor election, and the millions of dollars it cost our state to repeal it, as the majority of voters actually wanted. I have seen the organized crime it brought into our state, and how the "Legal" drug trafficking became the perfect means for trafficking the more dangerous drugs that many pot smokers graduate to when they can no longer get the high from pot that they used to. I have seen the so called doctors they bring in from out of state and sell medical cards to 18 year olds for $70 so they can buy and resell in the high schools. I have seen the result of the rival "medical marijuana" shops when they toss a molotov cocktail through the window of the nearest competitor and burn down the shop and the surrounding businesses. I have seen a lot. Enough to know that you can spin it however you want, but in the end, pot is a drug that destroys people, just as alcohol can.

yes, it is legal on a state level in quite a few states, and yet still illegal on a federal level, which trumps state every day of the week. DEA will still bust the shops, even though Obama told them not to. And when you use, for your hypertension, depression, or whatever other made up illness you have, you are breaking the law. You go ahead and smoke though, it just means more job opportunities for my kids as drug testing becomes more and more prevalent in businesses. If you even have the desire to get off the couch and find a job. Don't worry, you can collect unemployment for 99 weeks now, right? It's all good....

ALL the issues you harp on about are ALL a result of creating criminals out of people, thanks to our federal government, for possessing a natural drug that has never killed ANYONE. Pick any other drug you want to hate on and I'll stand beside you. Pot is not the gateway drug. The gateway is man made. Your son had a drug problem because he had a LIFE problem. Drugs are not the CAUSE, they are an attempt at self medicating. Your son had a problem before he ever found drugs. Most likely it was your parenting. Feel free to rant against the drug addicts. Treatment is a SCAM.

I've got a job, I own my own business and I worked 14 hrs today. I pay DOUBLE self employment taxes for the honor. I used to be a drug couselor and I worked exsclusivly with adolescent boys until I got so sick of the scam being perpetrated against the boys who's parents wanted to lock their kids up in treatment rather than gut up and take responsibility for being crappy parents.

Guns are such wonderful things. Anyone can access one. One can use 'em to threaten, maime or kill at will. Glory be to guns. Made America what She is today! That is, the looniest place on Earth.

For all you people who want to blame religion for all the trouble in the world, take a look at how many people have been killed in the name of secular socialism (i.e. communism, fascism, nazism) in the last 100 years. The Nazis cause the death of around 50 million people in Europe during WWII, that was accomplished in 6 years. During Stalin's reign in the Soviet Union, it has been estimated that he was responsible for the death (really murder) of 30 to 44 million people there. Mao Tse Tung was responsible for 40 to 70 million people. I could continue but I think you get the point. By the way, how many have been killed in God's name? Can you put a number on it or are you just parotting the "Big Lie" doctrine of the Nazis like most of the lemmings on these blogs? As for brainwashing, religion doesn't own the exclusive rights to that.

I am so sorry for the lives lost and the families who are left to grieve.

To the comments above as if my two cents matters...I'm a Christian woman. I despise religion. Religion is law-based. It's human nature to want to break laws. It's all about getting right with Christ and forming a relationship in your own personality. He takes away sinful desires.

And since the 420 topic came up...It's a PLANT, not a drug! If people could learn to practice moderation maybe it wouldn't get such a bad rap and if those who like to throw judgements at others would try taking a toke and reading a parable they may eventually gain some wisdom and realize judging others isn't the answer.

Anybody wondering WHY America has the largest armed citizenry in the WORLD ?

WHY we have 1 out of every 31 Americans in JAIL, on PAROLE or on PROBATION ?

WHY is it that with just 5% of the World Population, 25% of all prison inmates in the entire world, are Americans serving time in American Jails and Prisons ?

WHY is it, that these mass killings and cases of random shootings are SO common that we don't even read the stories,anymore ?

Mac Forrester Guns are great especially in the hands of competent people that know how to use them. We need every house to have a gun. I have several and have never killed anyone. Only the criminal or insane uses guns for the purpose you say. No one in their RIGHT MIND uses guns to kill unless your a gangbanger, rapist, or common murderer. You may live on the looniest place on earth. I live in the U.S. where I feel safe. I don't live in a place like England or China or Canada. I will never live there or even visit. Not safe.

Gun-totin TEXAS has the 18th HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the USA.......

California has the 20th highest murder rate in the country.....this refers to the percentage of killings per 100,000 residnets of these states.

OHC-3381930 had this to say:

ALL the issues you harp on about are ALL a result of creating criminals out of people, thanks to our federal government, for possessing a natural drug that has never killed ANYONE.

Actually, no. Marijuana is a "natural drug" just like hemlock--but I wouldn't recommend your drinking any hemlock, either. Marijuana, like alcoholic beverages (also "natural"), has some therapeutic properties when consumed responsibly. Marijuana, much like alcoholic beverages (though they have different deleterious effects), if consumed to excess can trigger schizophrenia in people who have a tendency towards it, damages short term memory, eventually damages long-term memory, is addictive, will eventually destroy a person's ability to reason, and has led to some deaths (just not via overdose).

Want to know just one? Try the girl who theoretically died from kissing her boyfriend after he ate a peanut butter cracker. She actually died from asthma after smoking marijuana. Marijuana exacerbates certain other conditions--and it also leads to poor judgment which subsequently leads to accidents. In some people, marijuana acts to calm them; in others, it agitates them and makes them paranoid. Different people react differently to the same drug.

The problem with trying to discuss marijuana with someone who uses it regularly is that the person has already suffered cognitive impairment and cannot follow the conversation well. Such people often have difficult jobs--do you own a lawn service, for example--but not jobs that require a great deal of abstract thinking skill. If they do enough marijuana, they will eventually lose the ability to do manual labor, also. Some are able to hold jobs that do require some abstract thinking ability . . . briefly, until they get fired and come up with multiple excuses for the firing. Marijuana users are prone to emotional arguments rather than reasoned ones, ad hominem attacks, inability to understand why some studies are poorly designed--and attacking the messenger because they don't like the message (kind of like some conservative fundamentalist evangelical Christians).

Again--marijuana has some therapeutic properties. If consumed at the equivalent of one glass of wine a day, it probably is good for most people's health. However, when consumed to excess it damages a person--not the person's liver, not the person's lungs--it damages the person's ability to think and therefore damages the person. DaveK is quite correct to be concerned about easy availability of a very dangerous substance--and you, OHC, are seriously in denial and should get into some higher quality therapy than that you've been exposed to so far.

Beyond that--it's boring talking to marijuana users. It's like discussing wine with a wino--not exactly the most scintillating of conversations.

beanathome

What is wrong with drunks? That is way over the top politically incorrect calling us winos. We call ourselves "Americans" damnit.

No one in their RIGHT MIND uses guns to kill unless your a gangbanger, rapist, or common murderer.

What would qualify someone as a uncommon murderer?

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read on the vine, and that is saying something in the middle of this primary season.

John - ya'll alkies just need a good PR person, maybe some lobbyists. Clean that image right up, you just came up with the slogan. I like that.

If this was in Florida, he might claim self defense under the "Stand Your Ground" law.

Hey Mac Forrester;

Isn't this the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia? Home of very strict gun control laws? The leftist social utopia? You know, the Granola state, Where what ain't nuts and fruits, is flakes? How could this possibly happen in a state where most categories of hand guns and semi-auto rifles must be registered, IF you can own one at all? Oh wait, that's right, the criminals and cartels don't follow the rule of law. A ton of the guns in Cali are coming in from down south, along with the illegals and drugs. You flip out over fast and furious, but are remarkably silent where the guns bought by the Mexican government and handed out to family and friends running the cartels. Why is that, exactly? Counting all currently guns laws, Federal, State, County, Municipal and D.C., they number 27,734. How about we enforce the laws on the books? Why not start there. After all, a felon in possession of a hand gun, is supposed to return to prison for ten years. If it is stolen, tack on five more, If used in the committing of a crime, They are to receive three times the normal sentence for said crime plus the a fore mentioned time, and that is according to the National Firearms Act) of 1934.

And by the way, wise ass, The automobile remains the number one killer of Americans between 5 and 55 years of age by a wide margin. Where's your calls to rid the world of cars? Fact's can really screw up a load of crap leftist post, huh?

From what the injured witness described about the shooter, he is quite possibly mentally ill - his condition was observed before he shot anyone which is very troubling.

Angie Johnson told the San Francisco Chronicle that she saw a young woman leave the building with blood coming from her arm and crying: "I've been shot. I've been shot."

The injured woman said the shooter was a man in her nursing class who got up and shot one person at point-blank range in the chest before spraying the room with bullets, Johnson said.

"She said he looked crazy all the time," she said the victim told her, "but they never knew how far he would go."

It wouldn't be surprising to later learn that school officials knew this man had an untreated mental illness, as this victim did. This is a tragic and sad loss of lives that perhaps could have been prevented if this man had been in a proper mental hospital setting. The stigma attached to mental illness many times puts the families of the perpetrators in a seemingly helpless situation and they are often partially or completely detached from their mentally ill relative. If this man had been observed with his eyes bugging out and aggressive behavior in class then why was he allowed to roam freely around the campus after no longer being enrolled in the school?

What can be done in the future to screen students for serious mental illnesses and prevent them from harming other students and faculty? Why couldn't metal detectors be utilized to screen for firearms in both private and public college buildings?

Lastly, if this gun was registered to this deranged shooter then it's another example of why there should be tougher background checks in place for gun purchases.

Someone below states "What does this have to do with Oakland ? The crazies are everywhere !"

The fellow who wrote this must BE crazy to NOT recognize that:

A. ) Yes, there are crazy people in ALL countries,

BUT, THAT

B.) the "crazies in other countries" cannot easily get their crazy hands on GUNS !!...here in the USA you can get guns quicker than you can get your automobile registered !

FLEXMIND should re-name himself as NO-MIND........the murder rates in China,Canada and England are LOWER than the SAFEST states in the USA ( Vermont and New Hampshire), which means..the lowest rate of murders in the USA....thats because of strict laws on gun ownership......

Capt Tripps

We've tried to have spokesmen, but for some reason they keep ending up in jail. Perhaps we should aim a little higher than hollywood.

Guns aren't the problem. People not being able to reason with each other is. We are in a world where most kids grow up being able to text, but not able to spell or communicate. They spend countless hours playing violent video games preparing them for war, but not for peace.

Culture has created this problem, and unless we change the culture and actually start having civil conversations person to person, this will not change, and only get worse.

Sean-336944

I guess you can take what words you choose from my post. Whatever, if you can't grasp my supposition. It was not about texting. It was about how recently, and we have seen it over and over again, that conflict resolution is dealt with by a gun, not by communicating. You can blame the gun if you wish. You can take all the guns out of the public. Then the body count might go down because they had to use knives, whatever.

It is culture, the guns do not pull their own triggers, that would be people. It is not logical to blame an inanimate object for the choices of people just because you don't want to hold people responsible for their actions. That would be a gutless copout.

@Flexmind -Nicodemus: looks like some of you could argue the merits of Gun ownership wiyhout bringing up Automobile wrecks. Not hardly the same thing and a very dumb arguement. I'm not against Gun Ownership. I do believe though guns are waaaay too accessible to waaay too many people. I think also, many gun owners are very irresponsible with their ownership. All guns were legal when manufactured. Most were legal when sold. After this though, they seem to go off every which way. People can kill and maime with knives, clubs, posion, etc. Most though, love to kill with guns. Don't have to have actual physical contact with their victims with a gun. If they did have to have actual physical contact, and especially combat, with their intended victims the murder rate would go way down.

Bill in Mill Creek

How many times have you heard of someone shooting up a police station? Can you guess why or do I need to explain?

Mac Forrester

I like that. Proposal of de-evolution. Monkeys using clubs. That's good. We should get Congress to name it that

HR We want the monkeys using clubs bill.

I live in Tucson, AZ., guns don't flow into the USA from Mexico...if they did; they started out in the USA before arriving in Mexico. AZ is the land of the Gun Show - lots of Americans selling guns for a living, down here.

I love how some posters went whole-hog and brought in terrorists and immigrants - I bet Oakland triggered their hatred of OWS too. You know you need an intervention when every subject snowballs into one big gumbo of intolerance.

I do not like what religion has done to our society as of late, but what does this solve? Just because the religious right wing extremist (Christians, Jews, Muslims, & Hindus to name a few) do this to us doesn't mean this is ok. Although I do despise James Inhofe, Jim Demint, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and Rick Santorum along with everything they stand for doesn't mean I'm going to follow their example. They encourage the wholesale slaughter of the peaceable who keep to themselves (the gays, the abortionists, etc) and I'm not comfortable with that. These people kept to themselves. Practice your religion to the full. I'm ok with that as long as you don't force it on me.

Christians + loaded firearms = tragic consequences

It happens every time...

"it will take us afew days to put the pieces together"...Forget It, You NEVER Will, The guy is a Whack Job.

Pray for the victims families.

Religion itself may not kill anyone -- but more people have been killed IN THE NAME OF religion than any other excuse.

Now, as to the guy having a gun in the school: It is obvious that he was not obeying California's LAW against openly carrying a loaded handgun. It is equally obvious that -- at that particular time, anyway -- he just didn't give a damn about that law. Looks like the law again failed to stop someone from using a handgun to commit murder.

Pray for the victims families.

Why? What good is hand-mumbling going to do??

once again -- the jesus-myth was nowhere to be found when some of his loyal followers needed his protection the most.

what a joke, this nutty religious nonsense...

Phantom Beast #2.53: Yep. A whack job with a gun.

John-737278: We're talking ourselves here. Our relatives seem to do well enough when we stay out of their affairs.

Sorry I dated myself. My comment was a "2001" movie reference. The age of the club.

Even if you ban guns, psychos will just find other ways to kill (or just buy them illegally, as is the case most of the time anyway).

John, let's get our facts straight first: CDC figures for 2004 (the latest I have, but still relevant for their relative percentages) indicate 11,624 people murdered with firearms, vs 43,432 killed in traffic accidents.

We are not victims of the second amendment--the second amendment PREVENTS far more deaths than it causes. The number of people who defend their lives by carrying a firearm significantly outweighs those who die at the hands of another with a gun.

Not that 11,000 lives are an insignificant number, but banning guns would create more problems than it solves.

Remember--criminals don't obey the laws that say they can't murder another human, so why would you expect they'd obey a law that says they can't have a gun?

Because we all know that the European Union is doing so well and totally not going bankrupt.

CRIMINALS don't care about a silly thing called "laws". Due to the fact that the school restricted gun use, people ended up being victims rather than than shooting back at the guy who perpetrated this here.

You hate guns? Go move to Chicago or Washington D.C. where they have some of the strongest gun control laws in the country. Go ahead.

Go move to Chicago

And it's working so well there.

@John Murphy: You realize that CA is one of the MOST restrictive states in the United States for guns? Perhaps this occurred because they don't have more relaxed gun legislation... Perhaps and individual could have been able to protect themselves from this gunman had CA not had such restrictive laws.

The criminals will always find a way to carry out there terror, they break the law. This person violated several laws, whats to say more restrictions would help, they don't. Individuals should be able to defend themselves 100% of the time.

United States Constitution 2nd Amendment, we need to get back to our roots.

you mean "advanced" nations like the great U.S.S.R? Get real....I DO want the right to own a gun, and I DO NOT want to pay for everyone elses healthcare! Also, if this guy would have attacked these people with a butter knife, would you then want to ban them?

Ruken, we normally disagree but that makes perfect sense to me too.

John, we have 25k gun laws in the USA. It is hardly the case that we can use guns indiscriminately. Hyperbole is of no help. And I'm not sure that having government bureaucrats determining who will get care and what kind of care they will get is much of an improvement. Still, a nice partisan try on your part. Lots of ways can be pursued in order to make health care better, and more yours to ration how you see fit, but Obamacare is no improvement in most respects, perhaps it's much worse in a few respects.

Here we go. Blame guns and the Constitution.

Would you have preferred the man built a bomb? What if he'd used a knife?

Who would you blame then?

Certainly not the individual that committed the act itself!

People like YOU are more frightening than amendments and handguns. People like YOU sacrifice these things for the guise of safety.

Know where that leads?

Incidentally, how many are killed in auto accidents each year? How many from disease due to smoking or drinking?

Do you pule as loudly against those fully legal objects and substances?

Also, have you even bothered to look into crime rates for these enlightened countries that have such tough restrictions on gun ownership?

Silly me, seeking to use reason and statistics against someone who is so clearly driven by fear and cowardice and emotion.

And don't assume I'm in the NRA. I'm not. I believe we have a right to defend ourselves, and to own guns, and in the Constitution itself.

California has extremely restrictive gun laws and laws against murder, both of which were violated by this criminal. Too bad the victims weren't armed and able to fight back. Five more people who may be alive had they chosen to exercise their second amendment rights.

And what dichotomy? The gunman killed because we lack universal healthcare? Drivel. What will end the "cycle of violence" is when would-be killers are aware that their intended victims are armed and willing to defend themselves. You can't stop crazy. You can put it down or be a victim. Now go find what's left of your manhood and see if it can be somehow reattached.

Yo Random. Just what gun do you own that will prevent an M1A1 Tank from taking your freedom?

You do understand that's what you will be facing if the US Gov decides to take your freedom, right?

This whole illusion that some how the general public owning a 9mm keeps the government at arms length is laughable at best. The government dose not care what weapon you have... They would just use 1 of any number of things they have that is totally unaffected by anything you can toss at it.

For any of the other reasons people should carry guns, keeping the government from taking your freedom just is not 1 of those reasons.

At the time it was written, the second amendment made some sense. However, if the writers had any idea of the advances in firearm technology, you could be sure that some restrain would have been written into the law. There is no need in modern society for the type and number of firearms currently available. None!

Love the treasonous drivel. Keep running your mouth, Comrade.

Salughters like this occur directly due to the lack of good guys having what they need to protect themselves form the evil and insane where we're going to start prosecuting idiots for infringing the Second Amendment.

Looks like you might get on that list.

Nice spin, Alan! California has some of the strictest gun laws in the U.S., including ammunition sales, but yet, but the violence is still there. Why is that? Why are their strict gun laws not working? Banning of firearms only hurts law-abiding citizens.

Credit to John Murphy

John Murphy-1281714 Five more victims of the second amendment. While advanced nations have a universal right to health care and strong restrictions on guns, the backward, United States has a universal right to own and use guns indiscriminately, while insurance company bureaucrats decide which Americans get treatment and what treatment they get, while their decisions kill 45,000 Americans each year as they stand between Americans and American physicians

Hey John Murphy, if what you say is the truth, why do so many Canadians cross the border where I live (Buffalo) and buy all their merchandise in the States. Canadians do come to America! Unfortunately, we have to deal with their poor driving skills and their misunderstanding that they can use Canadian money in an American store as I am waiting in line...

QE-I'm talking about people VS people.Also,if the U.S. did have a civil war,about half of the U.S. soldiers in the military would fight against the government.Look at WW2,if the citizens were allowed to have guns,there would have been far less civilian deaths.

Ruken, we normally disagree but that makes perfect sense to me too.

Because it's true. Even now criminals (except the really dumb ones) don't even use guns registered to themselves. They buy a "hot" one on the street with a mostly likely filed off serial number.

Making guns illegal won't stop this, it will just increase these illegal gun dealers' business.

Look at WW2,if the citizens were allowed to have guns,there would have been far less civilian deaths.

Civilians with no combat training with pistols don't stand a chance against a trained military, guns or no guns.

Phil

Please, please, please come up with some even a farce of report or study that possibly even hints at your statement that "The number of people who defend their lives by carrying a firearm significantly outweighs those who die at the hands of another with a gun."

Because to most people, that sounds a little bit crazy and somewhat hard to believe without real facts to back it up.

Also... look at firearm death rates in countries with gun control statistics... amazingly, they're much lower than this country... wonder why

"Civilians with no combat training with pistols don't stand a chance against a trained military, guns or no guns."

Of course the citizens of WW2 did not know how to use guns,it's because their governments would not even let them train themselves with guns.However,Russia did let their citizens use guns to defend themselves.

Five more victims of the second amendment. While advanced nations have a universal right to health care and strong restrictions on guns, the backward, United States has a universal right to own and use guns indiscriminately,

Prepare to be collapsed by NRA members. I gave you a vote for understanding the dichotomy that leads to our cycle of violence

I see the "BAN ALL GUNS" knee-jerk 'tards are already out in force this afternoon.

"That's why a large number of Canadians vacation in Cuba because there are no American idiots there." -John Murphy

Right. Only a dictator that denies basic human rights to his people. And anyway, your statement is total bullocks. I know several Canadians who vacation in the United States. I am friends with several Canadians who chose to do their university studies in the United States. And I know more than a few Canadians who have issues with the health care up there, mainly being that you have to wait in line forever to get what you need.

But that has NOTHING to do with the tragic story at hand here. Determined criminals can get their hands on any weapon they want, regardless of legality. Surely you're not so dense as to think that if we outlawed guns, there would never be a problem.

Well, considering that the sacred second amendment is completely outdated, and should be removed from the constitution altogether, it is not amazing that someone else commits mass murder with a handgun.

Having said that, no one really needs a law providing that they are allowed to own handguns. If the second amendment weren't in place, people that think they need to own guns, would become the criminals that feel they need to own them.

This is 2012 and the British aren't telling you that it is illegal for you to defend yourself.

No, the US does not have a universal healthcare system in place, because the redumblicans and greedy insurance companies that won't allow you to have better healthcare refuse to let universal healthcare be a reality in this country. Once again, the all mighty dollar rears its ugly head. Take the money out of anything, and it gets better.

American society is far more complex that Europeans and obviously Canadians can not possibly comprehend it. You can not just boil it down to guns and healthcare. We (most of us anyway) have the courage to live in this incredibly diverse culture while the rest of the world try their hardest to maintain their countries in the most homogenous way possible.

It never ceases to amaze me when a tragedy occurs and some clown start trying to score vacuous political points. So go ahead and spew your putrid, ignorant filth. The internet is still somewhat free.

Travis - suggest you Google Dr. Gary Kleck - I believe he is University of Florida? who is the most widely quoted.... he estimates guns are used (not necessarily fired - often a simple display is sufficient to deter a thug) over 600,000 times annually. And, yes, that is almost 60 times as many times as they are used in ANY gun death. Your 11,000+ figure includes police shootings, suicides, and other irrelevant instances.

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."-Thomas Jefferson

""What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a
standing army, the bane of liberty.... Whenever Governments mean to invade the
rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia,
in order to raise an army upon their ruins."-Elbridge Gerry

The government wants citizens to throw away their guns.That way,they can do whatever they want to us.

Phil,

We are not victims of the second amendment--the second amendment PREVENTS far more deaths than it causes. The number of people who defend their lives by carrying a firearm significantly outweighs those who die at the hands of another with a gun.

Do you have any statistics that support your assertion?? I would dearly like to see them. and I am a gun owner, but hope I never have to use it.

John Murphy, Guns in the hands of citizens is not the problem, there are a lot of laws over guns and gun ownership. We just need a judicial system that will enforce those gun laws.

sez me, your still an idiot.

• I'd like to say that my heart goes out to the victims and their families.
• I think we as U.S. citizens should count our blessings as our bordering nations are not hostile nations, although the southern border is an issue, they are still not considered hostile.
• Im not a member of the NRA but I still own guns, and to by force to take them away from me would result in a bad scenario for myself or those trying take them away
• the 2nd amendment was designed for citizens to protect themselves from an oppressive government, it still and will always apply
• just because I'm militarily trained with combat experience doesn't make me invulnerable from an attack from a non-militarily trained person(s)
• Taking on an M1 Abrahms tank head on is not advised, but with a little creativity you can still in some circumstances neutralize it its combat effectiveness.

I support the Second Ammendment to the Constitution but, guns in the hands of private citizens doesn't reduce crime. If there is a statistic that states otherwise, please show it. Crimes like this are only going to be lessened if the media stops making it headline news. Most of these idiots that commit these tragic atrocities have a death wish and are only doing it for some twisted reason. The fact that the Second Ammendment is even brought up here is ridiculous.

I see the idiots have collapsed this thread already. So much for opinions.

I'm a gun owner, too, but old Random Pennsylvanian's reasoning is flawed. His statement, "if you're against guns you're against the founding fathers" sounds so familiar. Now, where have I heard that before? Let me see... oh yea, "If you're against the Iraq war, you're with the Taliban!" That's it! I knew I had heard that type of screwed up reasoning before!

Like I said, I own guns, but I will use those guns to protect your right to be against guns! Now, that is a true patriot and lover of the Constitution!

ENOUGH of the gun rights bull@!$%#!

Everytime this happens the bitching starts.

I don't care about that, I don't care about the NRA, I don't care if you were raised by wolves in the forest and you know how to kill with your thumb.

Stop your fighting for a few minutes and think about how once AGAIN someone has died.

Now imagine it was someone YOU loved.

@bluepanther20 - (applause!) Finally someone with sense and sensitivity comments. Well stated.

For those quoting Gary Kleck... I did google him, interesting read. Go ahead and read this link: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,152446,00.html

The guy has trying to stretch the data and twist it in interesting ways, but he admits that in the majority of incidents he cited, there may not have even been the prevention of a crime, and at no time tries to say that guns saved more lives than they took.

This study was conducted by a pretty far right fringe scientist to start with, and the right have taken it and run with it even further out of bounds...

Simple truth is, look at per capita gun deaths in the US... and ... any other country.

Stats don't lie.

John said it right, the only thing I would add is this country has a serious lack of mental health care. People have no where to go for help. Even with insurance you get a one time hospital stay and then your on your own. It's sad, I see people walking the streets everyday that should be in hospital. One witness said he looked crazy all the time, well that's a good indication he needed help. I see a comment below, the crazies are everywhere, it's not to be taken lightly, they are.

LOL @ John Murphy... The Canadian "free" health care system is so wonderful that Canadians go to the U.S. in droves for care because the Canadian system is overburdened, understaffed and underfunded. And why do you social libs insist on calling state run health care "free". Nothing is free. Canadians may not pay out of pocket when they go for treatment but they DO pre-pay in the form of increased taxes.

Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as
the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain
clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to
diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman
with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when
the standard of care was four weeks. - David Gratzer, a Canadian Doctor on Canadian state run health care

Stay in Canada, please. We certainly don't need more people like you in the U.S. who think a state run system is so great. In any country with state run health care the standard of care is far less than the standard in the U.S. single payer system.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

Ron,

As a Canadian, I'm here to tell you're full of it and an idiot... shocking how often I find that combination in the US. The thing the majority of Canadians will tell you that we're most proud of is our health care. Sure we complain (no matter what system you have to complain), but no one in Canada is afraid that they won't be able to get proper medical care because they don't have a big enough bank account. Droves... my God, you're stupid. Canadians are scared to travel in the US... you know how you buy travel insurance when you go to Mexico? We buy travel insurance when we go to the states! God forbid someone hits us in a hit-and-run and we're bankrupted by this stupid system. Moron.

My ex is from Canada...and he told me how great your health care is...you basically had to wait your turn.

Of course, he could have been lying...he was good at that.

In any case, I agree w/Ron. Stay there. We don't want you here.

Travis, hopefully you are suspended for your personal attack. In response, read from the link I posted. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html Anecdotal proof from a Canadian Physician and patients about the gross inadequacies of the Canadian system where a dog can get a hip replacement in two weeks but a human will have to wait years, unless they use services like Timely Medical Alternatives (which is frowned upon by your government) that arranges for prompt care outside the official channels.

Travel insurance? Of course. Any person should get travel insurance when travelling outside their country. Only an idiot would travel abroad without some form of health insurance. Fortunately for Americans, with our private insurance system, most of our insurance companies still provide coverage when travelling abroad.

I DO want the right to own a gun, and I DO NOT want to pay for everyone elses healthcare!

hey brilliant, if you buy health insurance you are already paying for other peoples health care. that's the way health insurance works, but some people don't have the brains to figure that out

Civilians with no combat training with pistols don't stand a chance against a trained military, guns or no guns.

You've just discredited almost every civil war that has taken place in the world, since the beginning of mankind. The USA takes a rap for being the most armed citizen nation (1 person in every 90 owns a gun) but those guns sure do seem to pop out of the woodwork everywhere else in the world when the people don't like their government, or want to rule their little African nation, or have the Arab Spring. You don't see people sitting around drinking vodka, firing their AK47's into the air or taking over entire villages armed with 12 year old kids with guns. I'll take the good old USA any day!

John Murphy thinks that if guns were outlawed, then people would not use guns to commit murder..... He "forgets" that in every country that has banned the private ownership of firearms people are STILL killed with a gun.

Hey, John, how about we ban the private ownership of baseball bats, knives, cars, pool cues, screwdrivers, forks, spoons (yes, spoons), pipes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, too, so nobody will ever again be able to use one to kill someone else?

So how does this have to do with other countries? This is in Oakland, CA (the United States). The crazies are everywhere.

Maybe illiteracy is the problem.

Clearly illiteracy is a problem for Maxeemas.

I believe he was trying to say we could devote more resources to fixing our own problems if we stopped worrying about the problems of other countries. I don't really think it would fix problems concerning nutjobs like the one in this case, but I agree with that ideology when it comes to things like hunger and the homeless.

Buckeye and Virginia.... maybe you have a problem with comprehension. The comment may not have been written well, but only an idiot wouldn't understand what he was saying. If you're just going to bash the commenter and not add to the discussion, STFU and keep it to yourself next time.

@ what5000.. They don't grasp the 2nd amendment at all. Only those in Militias have the run to keep and bear arms or keep and arm bears, whichever you prefer. The part in the 2nd amendment where it talks about the rights of the individual shall not be infringed, is referring to those in a militia. Look at the 1792 Militia Act signed by Washington.

The guns nuts think Obama is after their weapons. WRONG. His administration was the first one to grant gun owners the right to carry a gun into a National Park. The NRA's selected President of America, Dick Cheney couldn't even get that done, but yeah President Obama wants to take your guns! LMAO

Remember guns don't kill , its just the sound they make!

420... What is your definition of militia then? Back when the Bill of Rights was written, a militia was an army of the people, and that army of the people had no offical affiliation with the U.S. Army. Taking that into consideration, the 2nd amendment does apply to all individuals. You can try to spin it however you want so that it fits your views, but it doesn't mean its true. Is your name a typo? Didn't you mean 420 Fries the Mind? If not, could've fooled me.

what5000...please tell me who believes that "everyone deserves a gun"?

I think all these gun laws need to be rewritten. People are so weak and just pull out a gun and start shooting.

Down here in TX most people will state that if the victims had a gun there would not have been a mass killing by this person in Cali. Texans love their second amendment rights.

Thats right, but even in TX guns are outlawed in schools, as they are in Cali, but did the law stop this criminal, NO laws don't stop crime except with honest folks. The crowd who argues to take away everybodies guns (except the criminals who would still have them) is like saying we should have a non-existant military.

Some of you guys who doesnt get it / my message above... you need to start thinking out side the box...

If we can pay attention to this virus or sickness or whatever you want to call it..we have here in US That sending kids / Adults to kill for no F.. reason! we do have a serious problems yo.....

I understand 3 rd world countries kill for food and medicine and for little money... and for other things but even when we have all of that here in US.. we still kill for BEEN BORED and for other stupid reason!!!!!!!!!! LIKE RUN OUT OF MY MEDICINE... STUPID F..Reason..

US needs TO USE MORE OF THAT MONEY SPENT ELSE WHERE! HERE TO EDUCATE MORE PEOPLE AND ASSIST PEOPLE AND HEAL THEM from this virus or sickness BEFORE THEY GO CRAZY ON US

Ban handguns.

Stress, the pressure to be a success in a country that uses a gage based on what people do in life and how much money they make. The past week the main topic was the mega-lotto, 3 winners and thousands of depressed people. Everything in America is about money, you have it or you don't. You have excellent health care if you have money, and dumped in the street if you don't. Congress and elected officials have the best health care system in the world... If We the People ask for help then we're called Liberal Socialists, I'm a realist, life in America is what it is, very stressful..

George Washington is the president that signed a law that every able bodied man had to own a gun.

Boromir

Stress, the pressure to be a success in a country that uses a gage based on what people do in life and how much money they make

The confusion caused when ones mind overrides the body’s natural desire to choke the living @!$%# out of some @!$%# that desperately needs it.

Boromir - You maybe onto something but how about this - loss of control. I believe that there are a lot of people in this country (even the world) who feel they have no control over their lives. People and institutions (gov't) are telling how to live their lives each and every day. They see no changes nor do they see it getting better in the future. They feel helpless and weak so this is how they get that back. I am not condoning the act of shooting someone (unless it is in self defense of you or another person) but just trying to understand why. Until we start looking at this type of "act" and find the motivation, it will not stop.

@Takenaka

Guns are pretty well banned in California, very restrictive laws there. Matter of fact they are illegal in schools and campuses last I looked. Guess someone should have told the shooter he was breaking the law bringing the gun to school, not to mention that killing people is illegal too. Guess that is why he didn't care about the gun law. Bad criminal, didn't obey the law! Ok, sarcasm off.

@Takenaka

You can ban handguns all you want. I only have black weapons from Automatics or silencers to every assault weapon know to mankind. I have sniper rifles due to a job at one time. Ban your handgun. I am keeping all mine.

BTW All you libs that want to ban guns. How do you hunt for game. I don't use a handgun. I use my AR 15 assult rifle and have never killed anyone. Just what I eat.

Not even suggesting you ban mental illness or the right to bear arms but universities certainly need to start doing effective mental health screenings as a prerequisite for enrollment. After a student is found to have a serious mental illness that could threaten the welfare of others, there needs to be more done by school officials then merely removing the student. The student then has to be reported to law enforcement as a danger or a threat to them-self or to someone else and be placed in a mental facility or arrested and taken into police custody on a mental hold.

The injured student interviewed spoke about how this guy looked and how everyone thought he may flip out one day from his behavior in class. If the injured student was aware then so was the university that this man had a serious mental illness. Why was he allowed on campus?

Gun violence like all violence is learned. The NRA is our teacher.

Kamaaina, that may be the most stupid comment of all times. Congrats.

Sean

it's a valid statement until the NRA stops trying to deflect from gun violence and begins to take "personal responsibility" for what it promotes and distorts.

How about real PEOPLE take personal responsibility before you try and get a fictional person (I have yet to see how one puts a corporation in jail) to do so. There is a concept that has gradually disappeared over the last 60 plus years.. especially in California. People seem to of late been looking for someone or something else to blame besides themselves. It is no longer even an expectation but a DEMAND that they not be responsible for their own actions or well being. Look at some of the comments here about trying to put the school on the hook for the shooters potential mental illness. There would have been outcries if the school kicked this guy for mental illness as it would violate his rights... which they may have found a way to boot him and he still showed up... yet people are looking for the deep pockets before the bodies were even cold.

I think all these gun laws need to be rewritten. People are so weak and just pull out a gun and start shooting

You guys really need to realize there are about 1/100th of a percent of murders by gun for every gun owner in the country, and about 1/200th of a percent per gun in the USA. It's reporting that makes it seem like an "epidemic", it's not actually statistically a major threat to life at all...in fact it's a net gain of life to have guns prevelant in society (see game theory mathematics).

11-13,000 Americans are murdered by guns a year (over 75% are murdered by criminals btw).

33,000 Americans die of the flu a year.

If you aren't nearly 3 times more afraid of the flu than guns, you are IRRATIONAL. It's really that simple. People fear the IRRATIONAL "how" they might die, not the RATIONAL chance of it actually happening.

No gun laws need rewritten...people need perspective and a lesson in statistics and game theory.

BTW...ever notice the areas with the highest mass shooting incident rates are places with "no guns allowed" rules? Post offices, schools, Chicago (and other cities that don't allow carrying of guns concealed or open-carry)...these are the places criminals attack.

AND criminals don't follow laws...so tighter gun laws just make law abiding citizens less safe. The criminals will build "zip guns" from scratch if they have too. They'll import guns illegally from overseas. The idea a gun ban or even limits on clip sizes effects criminals more than law abiding citizens is purely irrational.

Wake up please...you are being oversimplistic and intuitive...which is yo say, not rational (as being rational is counter intuitive and deductively logical).

Every country, the whole planet is full of nutcases, not just us. Get a clue - it's a problem with the human race.

You're wrong Sean they just use machette, boards, rocks, knives, IEDs, anything that will do damage. Blame the gun ? Blame the car with the drunk in it too.

some guy,

Try doing as much damage with a rock stick or knife. What guns do is make killing as easy as twitching your finger (and the IED would fall into the same category as guns as it's a tool that takes little to no effort to use to kill.) This guy was a fat korean guy from the descriptions given, do you think he could have killed anyone with a rock or stick? No, he would have gotten his ass kicked. The gun gives weak people (and weak minded people) the power to kill.

VA Democrat,

You are correct. People are weak. Down here in TX, our gun laws are the same as FL. It is unforchanet that school shootings are become part of the American culture. I understand the 2nd amendment but everyone should not have access to guns.

I love how the gun control nuts go crazy on stories like these and use the actions of the crazy or idiotic few to justify taking guns away from everyone.

Texas, EVERYONE does not have LEGAL access to guns. What would be gained from regulating ownership of guns even more than it already is? It would make it that much harder for law abiding citizens to own a gun, while criminals would still be able to get them just as easily as they always have. The knowledge that law abiding citizens have access to weapons is the only thing that keeps some criminals in check. Criminals would run wild without a care in the world if not for people that legally own guns. Our justice system has already proven time and time again that in most cases, all but the worst criminals will just get a slap on the wrist.

frs-1616060....but in this country we make sure it is easy for the nut cases to get their hands on guns !

LOL... I also love how the libs like VirginiaDemocrat throw their two cents into a discussion and criticize the views of others, but when someone responds and actually introduces thought and logic into the discussion, the libs scatter. Thought and logic tend to get comments collapsed around here too, so I'm guessing this discussion doesn't have much time before the big collapse.

The laws are in place to stop criminals and nut cases from getting guns. If he had a record than he could not legally obtain a gun. So legal possession of a gun is not the issue. Changing the laws that exist will have no affect on the illegal gun activity.

It is a waste of time to endlessly debate the gun question. No one is going to change their views by reading the inevitable pro and con comments.

The guy was obviously nuts.

No one is safe anywhere anymore. No matter where you go, some nutcase is likely to come in and start shooting up the place.

He he couldnt get a gun, he would have made a bomb or poison.

Historical body count-- 300,000,000

Athiests-- Hitler (pagan), Stalin, Mao, leaders of N Korea, N Vietnam, Cambodia

Sean-336944

Rammer, what did they use to kill and intimidate the majority those innocents, chainsaws?

What madness are you proposing there? That the military should give up guns now? How about YOU take the aforementioned PERSONAL responsibility, join the military and tell them you don't need a weapon to fight the enemy.

It's funny you ask what they used to kill the majority of those innocents. The reason for the ovens and gas chambers was because those doing the killing found the guns were not efficient enough and cost too much to execute the millions they eventually did. Also had there not been laws preventing those innocents from owning weapons do you think they would have been herded like sheep to their deaths or stood up for themselves and made a fight of it? Yes you will argue civilians with pop guns could not stand up to the organized military. Your proof is that had England not been distracted in 1776 with the French they would have whipped us.. same in 1812? Guess what, those killers listed in 6.12 were a bit busy themselves when the atrocities were ongoing and armed civilians could have made a difference. Why do you think those killers made it a point to disarm the victims.

VirginiaDemocrat..Really??? Hard to kill someone by stabbing??? Are you sure about that?

"Ostensibly to match you're *failure* in the English language."

Uh, that would be "... to match your failure...."

Sean, at least you admitted it when you saw it. :D

Maybe he was upset with the Christian Right and Neo Cons wanting to use VAGINAL PROBES on our Wives Daughters and Girlfriends without there consent

Sean,

Someone else beat me to the punch, but I'm thinking that commenting on someone else's improper grammar usage would require one NOT using improper grammar in their post...GET IT?!?!?!

Do you know the shooter is a student at that school. Given the liberal propaganda and attacks on Christianity he could be a student, an OWS socialist, a spokesperson for MSNBC or a campaign supporter for Obama.

Um, this was a CHRISTIAN university! And besides that, religion has nothing to do with whether someone is mentally stable or not.

@Navyvet - or he could be an active or retired member of the U.S. Navy

I would place my bet on an "Occupier" simply based on comparing the number of arrests, Rapes, Drugs, Hate crimes, destruction of public and private party, Breaking into public buildings, Closing down ports, Burning the American flag, etc. of the two groups.

We Have a Problem With People Shooting OTher People. The Guns Are not helping, cause it gives

Americans(crazy people) a WEapon to KILL.

“A system of licensing and registration is the perfect
device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.” - Vladimir
Lenin

One of your sane heros, eh??

Bows, crossbows, Slingshots, air rifles, knives, Blowguns, throwing knives, swords, tomahawks, etc. are all made to do what?

I bet you if you take an export in any of those weapons they can do just as much harm as an untrained shooter with a gun.

Aunt of 8-1813159

Religion has everything to do "...whether someone is mentally stable or not". :)

I'm glad to see everyone waiting for some details, facts, etc. before passing judgement on this situation.

Bruce...why do you say this? My dad was bi-polar...had nothing to do w/religion.

If he went off his meds, he become manic and you couldn't reason with him...had nothing to do w/religion.

navyvet98

Do you know the shooter is a student at that school. Given the liberal propaganda and attacks on Christianity he could be a student, an OWS socialist, a spokesperson for MSNBC or a campaign supporter for Obama.

Perhaps they updated the story after your post:

The school's director said the suspect had previously been a nursing student at Oikos but was no longer enrolled, the Tribune reported. He was unsure if the man had been expelled or dropped out.

so apparently we DO know.

funny that this often happens in liberal areas with strict gun control doesn't it?

Yeah, a conservative Christian university is a "liberal area." Gotcha.

Crazie's and nut jobs and hoodlums will always have the ability to get guns legal or not. Thats why they are called criminals!

Yeah, a conservative Christian university is a "liberal area." Gotcha.

Don't confuse the FOX watchers with facts, they might get frustrated enough to shoot you.

no cameron, california is the liberal area with gun control. did you read the article?

There is no law allowing crazy people access to guns. There are laws that say they can not own them. Big difference.

So how do you single out the "crazy and unstable"? Do you give everyone over the age of 18 a mental evaluation? Unless someone has been through the court system and has been determined to be a nut job by a doctor and the courts then there is nothing saying someone is crazy.

It is impossible to tell if or when someone is going to snap. I remember in orange county quite a few years ago a guy was upset with his ex and drove his car through the preschool his ex's kid went to. Killed 2 other children. Should we have taken away that guys keys? Did we know he was going to snap?

Then in NY a guy burned down a nightclub killing over 80 people. He too was pissed at his ex. Did anyone know he was going to snap?

You can not stop people from committing crimes. It is impossible. Guns are not the only way to kill and IF a person has been through the court system for being a nut job then no, they can not own or legally purchase a firearm.

Yeah atlantic, coz this guy probably didn't get the memo that guns are not allowed on this campus. Had he gotten that memo, he would have followed the recommendation to leave his firearm at home and this would never had happened.

***end sarcasm***

huh?

Why do so Many people that have no knowledgeof guns try to comment on them.

just another reason to get rid of laws that allow crazy and unstable people, to have access to guns

If you knew anything about Guns, and gun control laws , you would know that to purchase a firearm "Legally" you have to show a Valid U.S. goverenment issued ID proving your a U.S. citizen and fill out a Federal Background Check Form 4473 where you have to afirm that you are not mentally impared, commited spousal abuse or domestic violence, your not a Fellon, etc. and that the FBI approves the application or can put a hold on the purchase.

Your comment that Gun control laws or lack of them led to this incident is ideological specualtion. If the gun wasnt purchased legally then all the Gun control laws in the world aren't going to make a bit of difference.

Cheap access to ammunition on the other hand is the problem.

I wasnt aware that people have to pay to get access to ammunition. But I understand what you are trying to say none the less. I hate to break this to you but Ammo is not cheap by any means.

Perhaps what you are missing is that more of these incidents are occuring because of civil unrest, depression, lack of hope, years of 8+% unemployment, Millions of peopel losing their homes, $4.00+ a gallon Gas, "Occupiers" stirring up more unrest and Class warfare BS, etc.

Is this the change you were hoping for?

Brain dead Voter in LA, typical liberal everyone should pay for the few crap mentality. How about we actually keep criminals in prison or even put them to death. How many are on death row but will die of old age before being executed. We have thousands of people we can never let back into society but yet we warehouse them and spend more on them per year them some people make.

How about we tax your right to say or believe what you want? Guns and ammo are not the problem. I can kill you and a bunch of people with out using either. Seems an old man at a farmers market a few year ago racked up quite the body count with his car. Then there was a guy in NY that burned 87 people to death after starting a fire in a nightclub.

Most shooters do not buy their ammo at ranges. Why should I pay more ? I buy it in bulk and save so I can enjoy target shooting more often. I also don't go to ranges. I use BLM land which is perfectly legal so I guess you think I should pay a ton of money for my rights and hobby.

example douche navy example, not lies

@Chuck,

A simple test for crazy would be to find out if they voted for Bush.

chuck, yup judging by how quick off the trigger you are to call people crazy I think your right to own a gun and ammo should be reviewed.

As for your comment about taxing for free speech, have at it but I suggest a penalty tax assessed for errors in spelling: e.g. "with out" (sic), or "we spend more on them per year some people"(sic).

If you think guns are not a problem in this country along with the ridiculously easy access to ammo for teenagers then you are living in a dreamworld.

I hate to break this to you but Ammo is not cheap by any means.

Huh? Where do you go shopping for your rounds? If you think $0.20 / round for example for 9mm isn't cheap, or $0.55 for a .45 then you must really be in need of a pay raise or you're having trouble shopping.

Cheap guns and cheap bullets ARE the problem. Just the other week a 15 year old high school kid around here got busted selling a handgun and a box of rounds for $50 at school to another 15 year old. Hardly an earth shattering sum.

Voter,

That was a shooter-criminal mistake. See a shooter cares what kind of ammo he/she uses as it is part of the overall performance of the weapon. A criminal doesn't.

falconer, we must be talking about different 15 year old issues. In Baton Rouge and New Orleans hardly a day goes by without some teenager being found in possession of a handgun and using it. Hardly a day goes by that someone isn't shot in a drive-by. Sure one can argue they're stealing the guns and ammo and simply being criminals, but to my mind, owning a gun means having some responsibility for that possession. Those who make it easy for their weapons to be stolen are a huge part of the easy availability of guns and are a contributing factor.

Voter in LA

Are there any other amendments to the constitution you would like to do away with?

Which one am I doing away with? I've said I have no problems with gun ownership, responsible gun ownership that is.

Chuck was the one who wanted to tax free speech. He also appears to have a problem with sentencing guidelines and shows a propensity for indiscriminate application of the death penalty.

Quick to trigger, hardly brain dead voter. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem as I never said anyone was crazy.

It is always some clown like you talking about banning guns and so on.

Guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them are a problem. Gangs are something that no one wants to do anything about. It is the fault of the parent/parents of gang members who are crappy parents. They are all criminals and are not allowed to legally own a firearm. So how well did the laws work there? There are over 25,000 gun control laws on the books and none of them do any good with criminals.

Forcing gun owners to pay for criminal acts is just stupid. I already pay for them through the taxes I currently pay.

I guess just being against the law to kill or attempt to kill someone is not enough. If just that were law enforced and killers put away for life I wouldn't have to listen to know it fools spouting how evil guns are. A gun never jumped up and hurt anyone. It took someone to use it to kill someone.

Voter in LA, I'm hard pressed to find legal gun owners that aren't responsible. If they become irresponsible, they lose the right to own guns. You can't prevent people from doing stupid stuff or random acts of violence.

chuck, you most definitely are the one with reading comprehension issues. Cite ONE sentence above where I've stated I wish to do away with gun ownership or where I've advocated banning guns? I've merely raised the topic that obtaining a gun is easy and cheap regardless of the 25000 laws you believe are on the books. And once one has that gun which is useless without a bullet, you know the part that actually kills when someone pulls the trigger, obtaining ammo is so cheap as to be ridiculous.

Sorry that line of reasoning is above your comprehension skills.

Williams, Cameron:

California would be the liberal area or did it all of the sudden become conservative.

Brain dead voter.

Again, you have the problem. First you said I called someone crazy did you not. It is up above for all to see.

A simple internet search will show there are over 25,000 gun laws. It is not me believing anything. It is fact. Prove me wrong on how many gun laws there are. Seems you believe only what you want to believe so who is living in fantasy land.

Actually a gun is not useless with out a bullet. Ever hear of blunt force trauma? Why do you think early pistols and handguns from the beginning up till WW2 has metal tipped grips or butt stocks. They were used to beat people to death when the powder got wet or they ran out of ammo. Oh, I'm sorry, you know very little about guns, ammo, history or the law.

Your line of reasoning is as useless as you are. While you idea doesn't take guns out of the hands it does make them unpractical for defense.

Your idea would deprive low income people from protecting themselves because you want the price of ammo to be astronomical. Nice thought there letting the low income be killed. Or perhaps you want other gun owners to buy them self defense ammo since you are such the socialist having the many pay for the few.

Good thing laws are not upheld on the feelings of pathetic people like you.

OK, apologies to those who have heard me say this before, but I needs to say it again...

Hand guns are the problem. #1 murder weapon in the US, year-after-yaer, far ahead of the #2 weapon used in murders.

I believe that there need to be fewer hand guns. This can be accomplished, over time, by designatnig hand guns to be a class 3 weapon under the 1968 National Firearms Act. Same as machine guns.

WOW, thats the closest thing to an almost civil discussion i have read to date! (sorry for not capitalizing the "i"((* ' '?))

Voter- as much as I can dig on Colberts' diatribes, would not the 'demand' of bullets to be met by the 'market'($), foster a 'demand' for greater criminal activity?

JDude- spot on. However, can't we figure out a way to 'discourage' it? Parenting sucks, schools suck, the gov...bla bla.. But, according to "statistics", it cost taxpayers more $ per inmate then I claim as annual income.

If the great inspiration of my life was to make money, crime is a WIN vs WIN, (with great fringe benifits).

Figure out what someone is willing to pay for a particular crime, (on a scale, ie; probation, time, money, body parts, life, etc.), AND CHARGE TEN TIMES MORE. BUT, ya also gotta redefine/rethink what makes something a "crime".

Politically, i tend to lean toward the i'mnotsureifitwas repubocratic amerasiafrican conservibertarian

ahh Now I really dont give 2 fucccks

Randy also fails to explain how countries with REALLY STRICT gun control laws like France, China, the UK and the Netherlands hardly ever have shootings. To be fair, Canada has only moderate gun control and has a lot fewer shootings, too. There's no statistical argument in any direction on this issue.

You know where there is a statistical argument? American culture/language, media, racial tensions and economic disparity show a much bigger tendency toward violence than any of the countries I just mentioned. We're an unhappy lot, and that's why we kill each other so much more frequently.

CJ, then explain Johanessburg...murder capital of the world, yet very strict gun control.

@CJ: Absolutely spot on. Great avatar, too.

BTW, AK Sabin, I think you mean MEXICO is the murder capitol of the world (at least according to Fox), and I think they are explaining that by citing some drug problems they are having down their with the cartels.

People will find a way to kill whether or not you let them have guns. In all those countries mentioned, murder by other weapons is higher than in the US. So what are we going to do? Ban kitchen knives because some people use them for murder? Ban pillows so that people can't suffocate others?

I don't like guns. But I'm not so naive as to think that guns are what kills people.

Liz,

Guns just make it so easy and more likely to be fatal. Besides Kitchen knives are for preparing food and Pillows are for sleeping. What is the primary purpose of firearms?

(I do support the 2nd Amendment but with my eyes open)

CJ -2001013

As a Canadian I tend to agree with your statement. It's is unfortunate that there is a lot of racial tension in America and it comes from all people, black what etc. It seems as though every time I read anything on these blogs there is always some type of racism or race undertone. It doesn’t matter whether someone is Korean, Hispanic or black, the point is someone’s life was lost for no good reason whatsoever.

Just sad.

cgtrav- Around ten billion rounds are sold every year, do you still believe murder is the number one purpose of a gun.

Bdob ..

No but killing is their primary purpose, whether used for that or not that is what they were designed for.

You said it.............something really needs to change about access to fire arms. It's a no brainer people!!!

Trigger Happy America ,so special, say the Gunners

Except anecdotes aren't proof of anything. Statistically the deaths per guns are constant...about 1/200th of a percent of all guns in the USA kill someone. It's a rare occurence. The flu is 3 times as likely to kill an American than a gun murder.

11-13,000 gun murders in the USA annually

33,000 flu deaths in the USA annually

If you aren't about 3 times more afraid of the flu than you are guns, you are IRRATIONAL, period.

Guns save far more lives than they take in America...look up game theory mathematics and the stats on the subject.

These deaths mostly occur in places where guns aren't allowed to be carried by law abiding citizens...because that's where criminals attack (places that are easy targets).

Another day, 3 times as many flu deaths as gun murders in America.

Do you happen to notice that this crap happens in areas with strict gun control laws?

"Except for the homicides, the crime rate here is really low" Mayor Marion Barry, Washington D.C.

Damian-Are you forgetting France?

Did he really say that? Good lord !!

Our country is relatively the same size as Europe our crime is less than Europe much less.

Pray tell, what gun law would have prevented this? California isn't a "gun friendly" state and this still happened.

Aside from France, didn't Germany also have a major shooting not that long ago at a kindergarten or something?

Navyvet, your comment is completely out of context and probably purposely so. First of all, Mayor Barry said that over 20 years ago - and yes, he really did say that. But for the record, please be aware that although Washington DC used to have strict gun-control laws - used to because our brilliant Supreme Court, in all its wisdom, recently ruled that every American is entitled to own as many guns as they want - what good are strict laws for one jurisdiction if the laws over the river, in this case Virginia, are completely loose. This country needs consistent nationwide gun control laws if we ever hope to stop this violence. But I won't be holding my breath. Americans love their guns almost as much as they love Jesus.

Thank god you have these other countries to move to.

I'm wondering what these miracle gun laws will be/do. We already have plenty of gun laws on the books, question is are they enforced. Lets see, I'm a legal gun owner and my handgun is registered. Does your local gang banger register his gun? Didn't think so. What does the number of guns owned have to do with it? Interesting you lump legal, law abiding gun owners into one group when those same gun owners, with exceptions of course, break the least laws.

Gaithersburger, please hold your breath.

Excellent point Falconer.

Justin-293850

Our country is relatively the same size as Europe our crime is less than Europe much less.

The why do we have more people in prison than any other country in the world?

Fan and member of the NRA.

NOT a fan of these "utopian" other nations you seem so enamored with.