Seriously, maybe we could try a new tradition, love and compassion. the poorest state in the country where inbreeding isn't a hobby...its da law.

It sounds like common sense law. I know many states require mid-wives to have a pre-arranged relationship with a hospital in case something goes wrong.

It sounds like common sense law.

The problem is that it doesn't apply to other outpatient procedures. Abortion has been singled out.

Good news for surrounding states where all those wanting an abortion will go and spend the hard earned money

This is perfect. One of the poorest and least-educated states in the country and they want more welfare babies. Brilliant.

Next on the agenda- reinstate the stoning to death of women who are victims of rape, for the shame they've brought on their families.

Gah.... of course if the politicians or their families have a little 'mistake' happen, they can easily fly to another state for a 'vacation' to get rid of it.

The GOP War on Women Continues!

Ruken

What other procedures that are serious as an abortion don't apply? Do you think that nothing ever goes wrong with abortions? I think the law is common sense. It protects women doesn't it? The article makes it sound like the state is outlawing abortions but it is really making them safer.

" Traditional Values "

So are they next going to fight for

-women shouldn't have jobs, but be at home raising children?

-women shouldn't vote?

-only whites should vote?

After all, that was the traditional way

Ok look at this bill for what it is..

Many things can go wrong with an abortion.. Should a doctor NOT have to have Admit rights to a hospital incase things go bad.

ALL the left sees is republican, and close abortion clinic. Then Lets attack

Jeremy - you are at MSNBC.

LEAN FORWARD - this won't hurt a bit

Hey Phil-673730

Going through the motions to procreate isn't without consequence. Hard earned money... my ass!!!!

JH - the reason providers at the one clinic still in operation don't have hospital privileges is because they have to commute in from other states and the reason they have to get doctors from other states is that it is not safe for a doctor in Mississippi to provide legal abortions. I'm sure there is no problem with getting hospital privileges for doctors who do boob jobs or nose jobs in off site clinics in Miss.

How about the legislature allows doctors from other states to have hospital privileges when there are not sufficient doctors within the state to provide a legal medical service?

Mississippi may soon be abortion free but it will also be individual freedom and equality free too. The first state in our republic to cross the line into socialist control of its citizens. Women (and the men and families who support their freedoms) need to boycott these states. Georgia depends on tourism, peanut and onion sales. Atlanta is a big conference venue. Don't plan vacations or conferences there and as much as I love vidalia onions I won't be buying them this year. Mississippi depends on tourism and casino revenur. Go to Las Vegas or Atlantic City instead. Let them support all those children without my dollars.

It's stunning to see the governor and lieutenant governor so readily admit their intent to flagrantly disregard federal case law.

Rob- you forgot a stipulation- traditionally voters were only white men who owned land... At the rate we're going, that would thin the ranks considerably.

I live in Mississippi. This comes as no surprise. In a recent survey here on MSNBC, Mississippi was found to be the most religious state, and in another on MSNBC, Mississippi was found to have the worst healthcare in the USA (Vermont was ranked #1). What next?

Nobody is surprised that it's Republicans in Mississippi leading the charge against basic American civil rights.

Toasty - that's because corporations and businesses don't need abortions, only women do. If business in Mississipi found they were suffering a minimum wage worker shortage because women had to stay home to take care of all those children, Mississippi would become the abortion capital of the country.

Once again, nothing is ever good enough for the Left. You guys say that one of the reasons you want abortions to remain legal is to make them as safe as possible. Then why do you bitch and moan about a law that does precisely that? Oh yeah, I forgot, just like your puppet in the White House, it's only ever about you. Democrats, the party of rampant narcissism.

To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.

T Roosevelt

Interesting quote from Teddy. Of course, the two terms meant something much different then. One wonders what he would think of the modern Republican Party, especially its Southern version. Probably as little as Abe Lincoln would think of it.

@JH - if Mississippi is so intent on protecting women who are having abortions, why are they not equally intent on protecting women, and their other citizens, who are having any outpatient procedure? Estimates put the number of outpatient surgical procedures at 60% of all surgical procedures, so to single out abortions means there are a lot of outpatient surgical procedure risks that Mississippi is quite happy to ignore. Egg harvesting and embryo transplantation for infertility, glaucoma and other eye surgery, some cosmetic surgery procedures, colonoscopies -- many invasive outpatient procedures have risks comparable to risk from abortion. So why only abortion clinics?

Mississippi already has a relatively high rate of children living in poverty. Since this law will impact low-income women more so than women in higher income brackets, looks like that number is only going to go up. I doubt their aid to poor families will rise accordingly. And yet, according to Lt. Gov Reeves, this bill "will enhance efforts to protect children from abuse." Yup, more children born into poverty in a state that's on the bottom for education is a sure formula for protecting children from abuse. Gotta love the spin.

Can we encourage the Southern states to secede?

Who will defend the unborn, the innocent? God have mercy on us all.

Who will protect the women?

MS will become abortion free. They will also continue to be free of many other things such as education, wisdom, compassion, sensitivity, intelligence, charity, teeth, houses without wheels. . . . . . .

Big TX - the northeast state of Vermont has suffered the highest mortality per capita of any state during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Don't try to convince anyone that patriotism exists only below the Mason-Dixon Line ....Don't go there....

Ol' Miss will be crawling with tons of kids and mothers without medical insurance,food, or contraceptives. Should make for some interesting seeds in the future. Hope they have lots of jobs or the whole state will be begging for money from Uncle Sam like Texas.

Brilliant Sarah, absolutely brilliant and very true.

Sarah,

Very well put response!

Thanks guys! I'm so sick of the right trying to allow the government to shove things down my throat and up my vagina, I'm about to lose it.

Jeremy-960164: Many things can go wrong with an abortion.. Should a doctor NOT have to have Admit rights to a hospital incase things go bad.

ALL the left sees is republican, and close abortion clinic. Then Lets attack

Sorry Jeremy, but are you really that stupid? You go in for an outpatient colonoscopy, and they nick you, what happens? It’s an emergency, and they call for an ambulance, take you to the hospital emergency, and you get admitted. It doesn’t matter whether the physician that did the procedure or not, you WILL get admitted.

So tell me smart guy, what is the difference between my example, and a problem abortion?

Sarah,

I, and many others, are more than willing to allow you to choose anything you want, until it hurts someone else. You say that nobody can prove either way when life starts? Fair enough. Shouldn't compassion and love dictate that we as a society would then choose to err on the side of caution? If there is a chance, even a small chance, that the embryo can feel, shouldn't that mean that we should protect it, just in case? If you knew for a fact that the embryo was a feeling being at any point in the process, would you not be repulsed by the ending of that life? Would you not want the same mercy that we practice for convicted murderers to apply to even the possibility of that life being a feeling conscious person? We demand that we see guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Should we also not be certain here?

Abortion is so very final, obviously. It is also subject to abuse. So many people on the other side of the argument say they just want to protect people in other causes. We shouldn't hurt animals. We shouldn't hurt other people. The death penalty is wrong. Everyone should be allowed to be happy, no matter what their sexual orientation or preference. Where is your compassion now? We kill over a million lives a year that even you admit we can't prove one way or the other if they "live" according to our definitions. You yourself say that it's a belief issue. Isn't that possibility more important than convenience? Some people are even hiding their guilt so much they're willing to call the embryo a "cancer".

Most of us that are against abortions aren't opposed to medically necessary abortions. But how much more can we cheapen human life that we'll practice such a thing? It's really no different than leaving girl children at the mercy of the elements like we did for thousands of years. It's just sooner. We just want people to start acting responsibly. How can anyone that advocates for choice not also advocate for that choice to be used responsibly?

If Mississippi is a poor state and women there have such horrible health care, they are probably are at risk for promblems from an abortion. I am agaist abortion for myself but am pro-choice in that I believe it is a personal choice so if you want one, that 's up to you. This law seems a good idea for safety reasons to protect the mother of the chid she is aborting. She may not care enough to save the baby but the state is at least looking out for her welfare.

Fair enough. Shouldn't compassion and love dictate that we as a society would then choose to err on the side of caution?

You have the right to err on the side of caution all you want, based on YOUR personal concepts of what love and compassion are. That's not the argument here. The argument is whether or not you have the right to dictate that OTHER'S follow your personal concepts of love and compassion.

Everyone should be allowed to be happy, no matter what their sexual orientation or preference. Where is your compassion now?

My compassion is in my heart. Where it belongs. Not presumptuously forced on others regardless of the fact that I can't prove my point.

You yourself say that it's a belief issue. Isn't that possibility more important than convenience?

This isn't about convenience. This is about equal protection under the law and civil rights. And no, your belief is NOT more important to me than that.

But how much more can we cheapen human life that we'll practice such a thing?

I can think of unending examples of how these same pro-life people cheapen ACTUAL human life, as in life that we know for a fact IS human, everyday.

How can anyone that advocates for choice not also advocate for that choice to be used responsibly?

Why do you think people who utilize their CIVIL RIGHT to choice aren't using it responsibly? Why do you think you're in any position to preach about the consequences, complications, or difficulty? Why do you think women aren't aware of those things without your sanctimonious preaching?

You really can't see it, can you? You're really willing to view the embryo as "not human". I am so sorry for you. This is why the argument can never be resolved. What I see as a crime, you see as nothing more than throwing away a used snot rag.

I'm not preaching at you. You're the vehement one. I just choose to speak for the life that so many pro-abortion people consider equal to the feces you leave in the toilet.

I guess it's the only way some of you can sleep at night. You have to see the fetus that way. I know you have hearts, love, and compassion so therefore you couldn't countenance the murder of over a million a year if you thought they were real people. Again, I am so sorry for you, but there's no point discussing it further if that's the way you think.

And before you say it, I know you don't want my pity or my sorrow. I don't do it for you. I do it for me.

Good old MS taking 2 steps back into the dark ages. Hope you have enough tax money to support all those unwanted babies.

Next step, let's make having sex out of wedlock illegal. It only makes sense. No sex, no unwanted pregnancies, right? And to aid in that, let's make it a law that women dress up in clothes that completely cover every inch of skin so that they do not tempt men. And make sure that unmarried women cannot leave their house without being escorted by a male relative. This is, of course, for their own protection. Other than that, KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR PERSONAL LIVES!

JH-479998--no, this is not a "common sense" law. An abortion, especially a pharmaceutical-induced one, is such a safe procedure that it can be performed with the doctor doing telemedicine. You think that this is a very complicated procedure--in the first trimester, this is a very minor thing in terms of medicine.

Doctors who live in Mississippi cannot perform abortions because their neighbors will torch their houses or they will be shot through their living room windows or their children will be run over and everyone will chuckle about how the doctor deserves to find out how it feels to have his/her children killed. We are talking about a state where terrorism is socially acceptable (and, yes, I live in a similar state). Anyone who lives there would be subject to many terrorist acts that the local police would not investigate.

So, doctors who perform abortions typically come in from out of state and then flee to get away from the terrorists. It is dangerous enough for them to just drive or fly in--they are in serious danger the entire time they are in the state. By requiring the doctors to have local practicing privileges--something they probably can't get as out-of-state doctors--they eliminate this option. So, it is live in Mississippi where the local populace can target you for death in Taliban-style persecution, or don't provide abortions.

It is not constitutional to target one procedure and not others. There are plenty of procedures that might be performed by out-of-state doctors: vasectomies, dental surgery, any sort of outpatient clinical procedure that an out-of-state doctor who wants to help the unbelievably poor in Mississippi might come in, briefly, to do.

In any case, read the statements above carefully. A woman who needs to go to a hospital can very easily just be sent--there's a little something called an "ambulance." The woman's care does not have to be handled by the doctor who performed the abortion--it is silly to say that women's health is in danger simply because they wind up getting referred to another, perfectly capable, board-certified physician.

Yes, this law targets just one medical procedure--and that makes it unconstitutional. If women so badly need to have an in-state provider, then everyone else does too. And, remember, hospitals that don't want to be firebombed will refuse privileges to any in-state or out-of-state physician who starts offering abortions. The point here is that poor women will just have to do self-induced abortions again, and then go to emergency rooms afterwards--just like in the old days. And that, my friend, is a heck of a lot more dangerous than having an out-of-state doctor send any patient who has an adverse reaction to a hospital to be cared for by an in-state doctor.

And, JimP1969, just in passing--every single month, women lose "embryos" to miscarriage. Yes, they go into the toilet. In fact, fertilized embryos are flushed pretty much every month by thousands of women who didn't even know the egg got fertilized but failed to implant. So, perhaps you should learn a little about what you are talking about prior to popping off?

I don't happen to approve of abortion for reasons other than medical--but note that this particular situation does not even allow for abortions in cases where they are medically necessary. The Catholic Church, for example, will no longer allow its hospitals to perform abortions until the mother's life is so badly in danger that she is on the cusp of dying--and sometimes, not even then. They also will not allow abortions when the fetus is dead--right up until the time that the dead fetus is causing the mother a serious health crisis which will probably cripple her fertility permanently.

Seriously--if you don't understand the implications of a law, try not to fantasize about precious little perfect embryos and women in excellent health.

I thought Texas seceded, already. All talk NO BALLS!!! go figure!! TEXAS what a JOKE!!

Jim,

Yeah, you're not preaching at all. And where did I ever give you my personal belief about abortion? Where did you draw the conclusion that I think of it as a snot rag?

So go ahead and do what you need to, but know that the rest of the world views you and your posts as condescending, presumptuous, backwards and sanctimonious. And if you don't want to hear that, cease to preach it to the secular public.

And, neener, neener, neener, we don't give a sh** about what you think or believe. Just keep it out of our laws and my body, and we'll be all good.

Can I get a witness for that??? Patriarchy, sheesh.

If it is deemed backward to oppose what I see as evil, then I'll wear it with pride. You seem to equate vehemence with rectitude when usually they are incompatible. You talk about the freedom to have differing opinions and then try to silence the ones that oppose yours. You make the assumption that my choices are for religious reasons, by your unsubtle references. I do not. I'm actually agnostic. I'm just one of the few people for whom honor, integrity, and goodness still have meaning. As for you and your cynical, sarcastic retort to a serious attempt to discuss a serious topic, I bid you good fortune, and good bye, because I no longer view you as worth the effort.

Jim, people see a fetus as a fetus... Because it's a FETUS. This isn't rocket surgery.

Now perhaps you would like to answer for the laws you'd like to see enacted.

Jim,

Really, where did I say you can't post your opinion or have it? What I said, is if you do, be prepared to be told exactly what we think of it. And what you CAN'T do, is try to enact laws based on it.

You're entitled to your opinion, not our acceptance of it. Therefore, I'M entitled to tell you to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

And my vehemence couldn't have anything to do with your leap to judgment about me in post 1.41, could it???

I bid you good fortune, and good bye, because I no longer view you as worth the effort

Interpretation: I don't like getting called out on my BS.

“These are strong, common-sense

Why is it everytime the rethugli-cons pass a bill they describe it as "strong, common sense" as if only THEY know and can define what common-sense is and normally they are WRONG. Usually it means those who don't agree with their agenda are going to get — — — — ed.

To be a rethugli-con means one must be the following:

Ignorant, insensitive, greedy, a religious fanatic, and closed minded.

Just what this country needs in 2012 (sarcasim)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarah, thank you for your intelligent comments.

Jim, just go away...far, far away.

" Traditional values " is BS code for religious rhetoric . Let the woman decide . Im thinking if the government wanted to come down on testicles the same way they want control over the uterous , a whole bunch of male religious wingdings would suddenly ........STFU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Maryanne!

The south keeps their people ignorant and poor. Easier to control that way. The south is a hotbed of ignorance and bigotry. I've never seen anything like it. These people are uneducated and they are totally dependant on their pastors to tell them how to vote. The pastors tell them that if they don't vote Republican they will burn in hell for eternity and these poor people believe them. They do what they are told.

ah, mississippi - bringing up the rear again...

just making it unsafe for women that truly need abortions...

joining Tennessee as the most backwards billybob states!

It sounds like common sense law. I know many states require mid-wives to have a pre-arranged relationship with a hospital in case something goes wrong.

Mid wives are birthing full term babies, so, yeah, such a requirement does make sense in THAT senario.

But, just because something makes sense in one situation does not mean it makes sense in every situation.

I don't like abortion. But, I am also smart enough to know that banning them and outlawing them would only serve to drive them (back) underground. And, then, there would be absolutely NO regulations in place for anyone!

So, no, this requirement does NOT make any sense here.

Anyone who is truly concerned with safety in this matter is going to want abortions to be safe and legal because the alternative is FAR more unsafe!

Jim my biggest problem with the entire argument is that people who are pro-life rarely adopt, and almost always are shouting the loudest against any sort of social programs meant to help the poor feed their children. If they're born they should starve then? They can't have it both ways and if you aren't part of the solution by adopting and helping the needy then you are adding to the problem. I am pro-choice and most pro-life people call it pro-abortion. I have never had an abortion and I have had three kids, that was my choice but I don't have the right to tell another woman what to do, I can only live my own life.

Well I guess the upside to all this is that wire clothes hanger manufactures will see a big boost in sales.

Finally, a female with logical statements. Thank you Sarah for taking the words out of my mouth and proving what an hypocritical idiot Jim and people like him are...I only feel great sorrow for the women of Mississippi who won't be able to receive the women's health knowledge and treatments that they may want/or need.

Katie,

Somebody's gotta have the balls (that's twice in one thread BigTx) to do it, right, lol??? Thanks for speaking on my behalf, support is always appreciated. I'm giving you the cyber equivalent of the fist bump... I just don't know how to do the emoticon of it.

Thanks Sarah - I love your postings.

Big Tex - It's you Southern Boys who get us in to wars so you better grab your balls and deal with the consequences.

Jim - I'm sure that Sarah as well as myself and most other women are not "Pro-Abortion". Abortion is a horrible thing and no woman would want to be put in the position of making that choice, BUT, no pink, sweaty, old man is going to tell me I can't have one. If men had babies, there would be drive-through abortion clinics on every street corner.

joining Tennessee as the most backwards billybob states!

You know, as a Tennessean, I'd really like to tell you just how wrong you are... but, you'd actually have to be wrong for me to right. LOL

But, it's all good. I like to think that those of us who don't like the backward, behind-the-times ways of others are here so that those people will not always prevail on everything!

hey Jim...im right there with ya.

Anyone who wants to ban abortions should stand in line and feed and clothe and care for every child. Every child, the deformed child, the child of another race, the handicapped child, the bastard child and the ugly child.

It is hypocritcal to 'love' the fetus and abandon the baby after it is born, and if you believe that doesn't happen, guess again. I have seen horribly abused and murdered children in my career, I have seen starved children, children whose mother's held their hands over open flames and cooked the skin down to the bone and the crime these children committed? They wanted food.

Sorry, when the anti-abortion crowd gets off its sanctimonious soap box and really and truly takes care of ALL the unwanted babies, then I can agree with their stance. Too often they want to save that little fetus and could care less about the baby. Prove me wrong.

Jim, no offense, but embryos aren't people, and it can't feel anyway. Embryos have no developed nervous system. All an embryo is, is a clump of developing cells.

Kim,

I love that you too said "balls". Perhaps I'm just extremely immature, but it does just seem to bring the point home, doesn't it???

wow.strong statement.

@mygirl.(my last statement)

Sarah - most these guys who are offering their opinions about abortion surly have problems in the "Balls" department as well as in the penis department (there, I said penis as well). They think a sperm is a terrible thing to waste. I'm extremely immature, as well Sarah.

Mississippi, YOU ARE SO F**KING MUSLIM ORTHODOX I LOVE YOU!

Really, please, do away with your hospitals and stop lying that praying won't heal more people.

Until you do, you are FOS.

Although I don't find this law correlates to shutting down abortion, for me it's not about religion. I know I will get slammed for having an opinion... but here's my side (I get equal billing and I am not, repeat NOT judging you).

After studying child development and human genetics at a research university, I still see a fetus as a human fetus. And though I really do not care about what others decide to do with their own body. I cannot help but feel bad for the children that could have been, but were unwanted to the point that the would be parent wanted to be rid of them.

Since human development is linear, there is no magic moment where a human fetus becomes a person worthy of love. If it's about population control, then it seems tantamount to a lesser form of infanticide.

Jayja: I will reiterate if necessary. What is more humane and compassionate, an early abortion or a life of misery? Until I see a concerted and real effort on the part of the anti-abortion folks to create a stable and protective environment for ALL those unwanted children I will maintain my stance.

hmmm.understandable.

And though I really do not care about what others decide to do with their own body.

Ergo, we won't bash you. It's when you try to tell us what to do based on what you admit is a belief.

Kim,

Those parts tend to be a bit smaller by the time I get done with them. :)

Derek,

What took you so long? Is almost time for my dinner. Tonight, I'm having Fetus Ala King, with a side of mashed testicles, and of course organic brussel sprouts. A girls gotta get her greens in, right?

well that's not true daryl.why do you think that?

I'm assuming that all of you "pro-lifers" are also against the death penalty since States occasionally execute innocent people and you would also be vehement ant-war proponents since innocent people suffer horribly and die in war zones. If this is not your belief - then you are all hypocrites

Enjoy your fetus a la king... that's harsh.

kim, I am not against mass murders being executed (there's no rehabilitation variable) and am against war. I don't follow any party line.

Derek, you are one badassed murdering Bhudist.

What do you expect from Mississippi? It's home to the American Taliban so it should be no surprise they are just as backward as Afghanistan.

Sarah, thank you for all your posts, they were awesome.

Did you know that women in Texas are getting together and knitting uteruses with the words hands off and giving them to Rick Perry. That Texas yahoo wants to restrict women's access to family planning. It has gone way further than abortion rights in the Lone Star State. Women in Texas are FORCED to have a vaginal ultrasound if they want an abortion, not just "jelly on the belly"
.

I think it's poignant that they chose to knit a uterus, since knitting needles and coat hangers are not and should never again be used as surgical instruments. I don't like abortion personally, but sending it back underground will only make things worse. Should a woman feel she needs one, she should be able to get one that is safe, legal, and CLEAN.

Like all things, society will decide for themselves what they find abhorrent and what they find acceptable. If you do not believe in abortion, do not have one. It's that simple. Let others also decide based on their situation, their conscience, and their religious beliefts. It's ironic that the Party of "getting government interference out of our lives" is WAY too interested in what a woman's doctor can say to her and what she does in her bedroom.

They are also knitting ones for choice advocates that say thanks for protecting my rights.

Jim

More novocaine for Sarah! I think you hit a nerve.

Wow all I can say to this is I see a legal battle on it's way. Before you know it they will find some way to stop the dispencing of contraceptives. Oh wait the poorest, least educated state what am i thinking Missippi must be planning on recovering their housing market and jobs markets in about 18-20 years. I am sorry but if this bill was about a health issue it would have prevented any doctor from preforming any proceedures without admission privelages and would have set out minimum standards for Doctors comming from out of state to afford that benifit irregaurdless of the point of practice. There are Doctors that are in high demand that travell for specific proceedures why were they not included? Why has Mississippi not shored up the protection of their Doctors? What is the problem? As Forrest Gump said Stupid is as Stupid does

Keep it up, Sarah! I've been hoping that the women in your generation would start to get ticked off. This sadly is not a new battle...those in my generation fought it 40 years ago. It's all about patriarchy, control, and no rights for women. We're supposed to all be happy living in the 50's again. Keep on fighting...it is well worth the battle. The religious right is all about judgment...theirs alone. They've been feeling threatened for years, and it only makes sense that the south would lead the charge, as they were the last ones out of the dark ages years ago, and some would argue that they never came out of the dark ages at all. They're still fighting the Civil War down there! Anyway, don't let the idiots intimidate you. Even idiots have a point of view. Their problem is always that they can't see anybody else's or honor it. It's a dangerous place that this country is in right now, and we need fighters like you. Hang in there!

Yeah DM!!! - I'm 63 and still fighting (although not with the same energy I used to have). This whole thing just really pisses me off.

Janellect, I actually really appreciate your post. I, too, have similar types of thoughts and feelings about the matter.

I don't presume to know exactly when 'life' --in the context of a soul, etc...-- begins. But, I do know that, if left to develope, that 'nothing more than' would be born into this world as a person. To say that abortion does not end a life is a vast oversimplification.

I don't like a lot of the language used by those of us who are pro-choice. Those who are anti-choice already see us as being immoral baby killers. Much of what we say does nothing to prove them wrong, and only serves to give them more ammunition.

That said, I simply can not imagine why anyone would want to go back to the days of coat hanger abortions. And, that is exactly what would happen were they to be banned and/or outlawed.

I wish we could move past niggling over the legalities of the issue --trying to change the law, trying to protect the law-- and work together to try to lower the number of abortions sought.

In this day and age, with all of the preventive measures available, I do not understand why so many who are anti-choice are also just as hell-bent on keeping people from adequate birth control or letting insurance cover it. So, we could start there.

Let all babies be born and euthanize all those that will not be fit for war. That's what the Spartans did in ancient times.

http://internetbiblecollege.net/Lessons/Killing%20new-borns%20in%20ancient%20greece%20and%20rome.pdf

Of course this is ridiculous today but what line of reasoning would Republicans want to stop abortion, stop all means of birth control, stop public school funding, and cut all benefits to the poor family with too many children. If they have no plan on how these children are to survive in tomorrow's world, they need to keep their nose out of other people's business. Republicans complain that government is too big then pass laws making the government bigger and more restrictive on other people's lives.

And that doesn't even take into consideration their union busting agenda as an attempt to disallow working people to bargain as a unit for better wages and working conditions. If they can divide the people.... they can conquer. People had better wake up to the fact that when one group is conquered another group is next and that next one may be you.

The demographics of North Carolina have changed, with an influx of Northerners........so, today,it is not that much of an old Southern/Confederate State anymore. BUT the OTHER States of the old Confedracy remain BIG LOSER States, with high unemployment, due to lousy educational systems,inbred people,trailers, a dislike for education, high drug and alcohol abuse, high rate of teenage childbirth, and a distrust of anyone who isn't FROM THERE.

These loser states, and Mississippi is the worst, receive from Uncle Sam, about $1.14 for each dollar that their residents pay in income tax...nice deal ! and they receive the highest proportion of food stamps, and tornado and hurricane relief than do the winner states.........

Too bad we didn't just LET them secede !!!! Who needs them ? full of religious wack jobs.

kungfu

I do respond to reason... Let's push free birth control and education.

Mississippi is just Mexico with a few more paved roads.

Let's push free birth control and education.

Hear, hear!

And, HERE, please - I'd love to see fewer children having children that they simply can not afford.

I guess these babies will be the Next generation slaves, over populate and drive the Unemployment up equal less pay, lower educated people , and a whole other benefits for the Republicans ....

Women face the very real possibility of death as a result of pregnancy or childbirth. When a women is forced to continue a pregnancy in opposition to her wishes she has been reduced to a vessel, an incubator that is valued more for the potential child she may deliver than for her own life.

Some in the Republican party say it's not about a war on women -but women have died as a result of being a woman and pregnant.

Remember the party that sponsored this action in Mississippi and all of the other anti-women legislation throughout the United States.

Look and see what planks each party will adopt at their conventions and how those represent concrete measures to ensure women's freedoms.

Remember which candidate represents the party that brought you the anti-women legislature and vote accordingly.

I am pro-life, but if a doctor wants to perform abortions in Mississippi then all they have to do is become a licensed OB/GYN, register at a hospital and move into the state. It doesn't really have to do with anything else does it? Stop making it seem like it is impossible to cross state lines or that all abortions in the area are outlawed. That's exactly what the left would like you to think. My guess is that the reason for this act is to prevent more malpractice claims.

I don't like a lot of the language used by those of us who are pro-choice. Those who are anti-choice already see us as being immoral baby killers. Much of what we say does nothing to prove them wrong, and only serves to give them more ammunition.

Kungfu... Amanda: You are absolutely correct. It is hard to take the language that you use seriously. It makes us believe that you can't win a debate unless people on your side begin with the name-calling. I respect what you had to say, but the truth of the matter is if anyone doesn't agree with what is going on, stop commenting and become a Gyn/OBG, get registered and move into the state.

that there is a single woman that votes republican in this country is both a disgrace and a homage to women's suffrage.

JimP69: Once again, nothing is ever good enough for the Left. You guys say that one of the reasons you want abortions to remain legal is to make them as safe as possible. Then why do you bitch and moan about a law that does precisely that?

LOL. Mississippi has the LOWEST safety rating for health care in the US. And, you think it has to do with botched abortions?? LMFAO!! This is the ONLY outpatient procedure that that filthy goddam state is focusing on. And the reason has NOTHING to do with making things safe for women. It has to do with smacknig them down. Only a lowlife liar would suggest otherwise, jim. After this becomes the law there, MS will still be number 50 in the US...

"Pro-life" is an oxymoron. Almost every single one of them claim to be faithful Christians that place the sanctity of life above all else. Yet most of these same people support capital punishment. The most popular form of capital punishment in Christ's era was stoning till death. Christ said, "Let he that is without sin, cast the first stone". That was after He told us that each of us is born of sin. Does that mean that all of the "pro-lifers" believe that their's was immaculate conception?

They rally around the flag with Bible in hand as our politicians send our youth to preemptive war in "defense" against a sovereign nation that never attacked us. Where did that sanctity of life go? The thousands of lives of brave young American troops sacrificed for wealth to the few instead of defense for the entire nation. The hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian Iraqi lives sacrificed under the same false pretense.

They fight tooth and nail to end or cripple social safety nets to feed, house and clothe impoverished children and frail elderly adults in the richest nation on Earth, to further pad the pockets of the super wealthy.

Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

They commonly refer to their "pro-choice' opponents as pro-abortionists when nothing is further from the truth. "Pro-choice" advocates will allow a female to choose whether or not to give birth to the offspring of a rapist or incestuous molester. The right to choose to abort an early pregnancy that goes horribly wrong and threatens her very life.

I believe there is room for compromise on issues such as; the very few young women that abuse abortion as a form of contraception. How do you compromise with people that believe every woman and doctor that face the heart-wrenching decision to abort a fetus is a baby-killer? How do you compromise with people that insist on dictating their own religious and moral values to all American women regardless of circumstance?

The claim the fertilized human egg is a human baby is as ridiculous as the claim that corporations are people. Silly claims made only by fools or those that mistakenly believe we are all fools.

Okay, SCOTUS already said in Roe v Wade when life, from a legal standpoint, begins: it's when the fetus can live independent of the mother. Up until that point, it's considered part of the mother's body.

Beyond that, it's all religion, or morality, or whatever you want to call it. Sarah addressed this much more eloquently than I can.

As to the notion that this is a "common sense" law, it's all part of the rabid right's ability to sound reasonable when making the most outrageous arguments.

What percentage of abortions performed in that one and only clinic in Mississippi required hospitalization? And of those, how many times were that patients actually at a higher risk because the doctor that performed the abortion didn't have privileges at the hospital?

I'd be willing to bet that the number is very, very small, if it exists at all.

This isn't about women's health, or common sense, or protecting anyone. It's simply another far-right infringement on women's rights. Period.

Why is it that the choice to be personally responsible for one's body comes after the sex when the woman finds out she's pregnant and not before? Shouldn't we all insist the choice between the man and the woman to have sex, which is decidedly the act of procreation whether or not spawn or embryos or parasites or babies are wanted, is the point at which the choice occurs? Why should we not demand that if you are having sex and don't want a child, you should use every method of protection available, and if the accidental pregnancy occurs, then the two people together creating that unwanted child should be responsible for the medical payments through birth until adoption?

More importantly, why is it that murderers are forced to pay the consequences for their acts, rapists are forced to pay the consequences of their acts, child molesters are forced to pay the consequences for their acts, arsonists, thieves, even tax evaders, and yes, even men who would rather not be fathers, are forced to pay the consequences for their acts, but women are not forced to pay the consequences of their acts and are granted sole right to commit a further dubious act that any other person doing so would be defined by all of society as a crime? The woman's right to choose is sexist at best. But the woman's right to choose is also a means of setting women wishing to rid themselves of unwanted children above everyone else in granting her the right to be utterly irresponsible at whim for the sake of pleasure and entertainment, and then commit what would be murder if done by anyone else, because suddenly she's more rational and intelligent and better capable of making sound decisions than before? Please.

Sex between people creates other people, we all know this. This isn't rocket science or even climate science. In fact, it's pretty much the oldest certainty known to humankind. The point for "personal responsibility" and the time for the exertion of a "woman's right to choose" happens when she chooses to have sex, so she and her partner should do so responsibly and be willing to pay the consequences in the event they accidentally create someone. No one would say that at the time of the act the man didn't choose--in fact there are other laws that hold the man uniquely accountable for whatever decision the woman happens to make after the fact, even if her "choice" is against his wishes. The laws are biased and backward, and it is time for review.

I hate re"pig"licans. It still infuriates me that any woman and most men would vote for "con"servative policies, which are in the most simple form: sexist, racist, biased, hypocritical, prejudice, derogatory, harassing, unnecessary, angry, ignorant, idiotic, and stupid. Abortion is and always will be legal, so a woman can live, have a choice to not have a child, not have a rapist's baby, and choose not to bring a child in a world with re"pig"lican values and policies. Support, support, support the right to abort. It is so hypocritical that re"pig"licans don't want the government in our business and that we should be free and have our lives private, but when the re"pig"licans want to brainwash others and make everyone else like them, which is pure and devilish and disgusting evil, then they try to pass laws to make others like them, which is vile and horrible. Seriously, quit trying to make women your slaves. Re"pig"licans need to stop trying to control and rape women's bodies and tell them what to do. What year are we living in? 1500s. You cannot tell a woman what to do with her body. Then, after the baby is born, where are all the anti-abortion jerks trying to help take care of the babies. Nowhere because their only goas was to control women and tell them what to do. What next, are you going to tell me I cannot ejaculate outside of the vagina? Keep your laws off my body too.

You can try, but you cannot control women's bodies. Stop it you disgusting old men. Quit being perverts and telling a woman what she can and cannot do.

Kim H, We're the same generation, and yes, this stuff really ticks me off as well. And I still fight it, but as you say...not with as much energy as I used to have! We do the best we can, and sometimes that's just got to be enough! Let's here it for the Sarah's of the world!

Sarah rocks. Tis all I got to say.

Those that oppose abortion based on religion and the rights of the unborn are the worse hypocrites in the world. They are always mouthing off about how valuable life is and how it should be given a chance to exist etc. Fine lets go with that. Here's where your hypocrisy leads you. , Wars....Since its a pretty murderous event generally speaking lots of people get killed, soldiers, fathers, mothers, children.... brothers, sister, etc etc etc... all die in them. Where is your religious disgust and hatred for all the blood spilled in the past 70 years. "That shall not kill" yet I don't seem to be seeing or hearing about religious rally's against sending their own children to die and kill for their country. Where's the civil disobedience and conscientious objectors based on the simple premise that only god can save you and that obedience to him trumps that of kings. Remember the coin brought to Jesus by someone who was questioning paying taxes to Cesar? Yet your silent.... your religious leaders are either silent or rooting for the destruction of the infidel. Wow and you want to force your heightened sense of morality on woman that choose to do what they feel is in their own personal interest? I'm certain it's hard enough to make that kind of a decision without the BS of religion to cloud and confuse a personal matter.

State and religion are separate entities and when it comes to abortion its obvious that the state of Miss is influenced by religion. I feel sorry for the voters that thinks it's ok to want to impose their morality through legislature. One day it will come back and bite you in the butt, it always does as proven by history and current world affairs.

Please don't get the impression that I lack respect for your own personal beliefs because nothing could be further from the truth. I may have been brutish in my choice of words but not out of disrespect.

Peace

If mississippi wants to become abortion free, good for them! The Supreme Court allows states to place restriction on abortion that don't provide a sustantial obstacle. If someone wants something badly enough, obstacles aren't going to stop them. Why is it Pro-choicers automatically assume that all women in every abortion clinic are fully informed to the medical and psychological complications from abortion? Cause it's easier for them to live in a fantasy world than a real one. I dare anyone on this forum to youtube "180 movie", and watch it all the way through.

BTW: At what point does it become acceptable to kill a human child?

Larry...

Very good...you see it all...that's a start. But, can you now put it all together? Can you discern the end-game of the unholy alliance of corporate conservatives and religious conservatives? I fear, by the time progressives figure it all out, it will be too late. Hell, it's already too late...

But, if it needs to spelled out I'll do it...but...I shouldn't have to...it should be obvious and I want people to use their brains and think...but here's a hint...don't just look at places like Mississippi...look to Michigan as well...

@unhappy, you post at #1.95

"Stop making it seem like it is impossible to cross state lines or that all abortions in the area are outlawed. That's exactly what the left would like you to think. My guess is that the reason for this act is to prevent more malpractice claims."

Wow! I'd really like to know how you came to that conclusion when the very people pushing this bill are openly proclaiming their desire to ban abortions! For example, this quote from the article: "As governor, I will continue to work to make Mississippi abortion-free,"

Your post reminds me of the saying: "none so blind as those who will not see."

Melissa-1175724-1762238

Can we encourage the Southern states to secede?

That is exactly what they want, and the first law they'll pass is legalizing SLAVERY again.

.

I don't see how not having an "abortion clinic" means not having abortions performed. I had an abortion performed by my OB/GYN in his office. They had special nights that the doctors who did them stayed late so you wouldn't have to sit with the regular crowd, which was thoughtful given how emotional an experience it was, who wants to be sitting next to a happy expectant mother right before terminating a pregnancy?

I actually think that the law as written is kind of common sensical. There are complications that can arise. I went home that night with clear instructions of what to look for and to call right away if anything came up. The doctor that performed the procedure told me that he was on call all night and to not hesitate to call him if I needed to. I think more OB/GYNs do this than you would think. This is a medical procedure and should be performed by a medical doctor. The idea of "abortion clinics" always sort of skeeved me out to be honest. Seems like they were only one step removed from the back alley, if you know what I mean. Now if you are talking about a women's health clinic that offers women a full menu of Gynecological and Obstetrical services (like Planned Parenthood), well that's different. That's the same as any OB/GYN office, it just caters to low income women. I don't know why anyone would only want to perform abortions all day long.

Here's a thought that will chill men to the bone. All you women forced to give birth to unwanted children. Give them to daddy and walk away just the way men have done for centuries. It takes two to tango and without daddy there would be no baby so he's just as responsible for the life of that child. Let him have the joys of raising it and supporting it with no help. Remember he has the same legal obligations as a woman would have to raise his offspring. It would be an interesting experiment to see how loud men can cry when they're trapped by an unwanted child.

Lady Cat,

I think the government should mandate that all men who don't want children must have a vesectomy, after all they are reversable. Of course, it will be on their dime, since I don't want to pay for their contraception.

Really? I couldn't stop laughing at all of the posts.

It's pretty easy to read that the clinic merely needs to have Board Certified OB/GYNs with admitting privileges at local hospitals. Meet the new standards and abortions continue...making the 'it's my body and I'll do as I please' crowd ecstatic.

"They also will not allow abortions when the fetus is dead--right up until the time that the dead fetus is causing the mother a serious health crisis which will probably cripple her fertility permanently."

That's not true. If the baby is dead it's no longer an abortion. It's a D&C and it's perfectly fine with Catholics and performed by Catholic doctors and in Catholic hospitals. There's enough wrong with the Catholic Church already without making stuff up.

CM,

This is from Bean's post above, maybe you missed reading that one??? It explains it pretty clearly...

It is not constitutional to target one procedure and not others. There are plenty of procedures that might be performed by out-of-state doctors: vasectomies, dental surgery, any sort of outpatient clinical procedure that an out-of-state doctor who wants to help the unbelievably poor in Mississippi might come in, briefly, to do.

In any case, read the statements above carefully. A woman who needs to go to a hospital can very easily just be sent--there's a little something called an "ambulance." The woman's care does not have to be handled by the doctor who performed the abortion--it is silly to say that women's health is in danger simply because they wind up getting referred to another, perfectly capable, board-certified physician.

Yes, this law targets just one medical procedure--and that makes it unconstitutional. If women so badly need to have an in-state provider, then everyone else does too. And, remember, hospitals that don't want to be firebombed will refuse privileges to any in-state or out-of-state physician who starts offering abortions. The point here is that poor women will just have to do self-induced abortions again, and then go to emergency rooms afterwards--just like in the old days. And that, my friend, is a heck of a lot more dangerous than having an out-of-state doctor send any patient who has an adverse reaction to a hospital to be cared for by an in-state doctor.

Care to answer to that? And furthermore, we're not buying the BS about this "being for our own good". News flash, we'll let you all know what is good for us.

If you're a woman and believing that crap, well I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

ItIsWhat!t!s -

You don't think it's an undue burden for someone to have to go to another state to get a procedure that's legal in every state?

@JH 47998

The passage of this legislation has nothing to do with making this procedure safer for women. It is a specious claim. The Governor himself stated that "As governor, I will continue to work to make Mississippi abortion-free", because that is his primary goal.

Do other outpatient procedures that could result in complications or death require the physician to have admitting priveleges? A dental patient could have adverse reactions to anesthesia or could require a transfusion if for some reason they begin to bleed profusely during a tooth extraction. Anesthesia reactions and excessive bleeding could also affect cosmetic surgery and liposuction patients.

If this law singles out abortion doctors for the sole purpose of eliminating abortions in Mississippi (which the governor admits it does) then it is unconstitutional and we would likely see the U.S. Supreme Court visit this legislation in the future.

News flash, we'll let you all know what is good for us.

After reading many of your posts, there's no doubt that you will tell us all. LOL

So, they meet the requirements first...continue with abortions and THEN dispute the constitutionality of that particular law.

OR, they don't meet the requirements and close...make Mississippi women travel for abortions or risk 'back alley' abortions and fight the constitutionality...which could take years.

BTW...The House in TN also passed something similar...

http://wpln.org/?p=35553

Or, we tell them where to put their "requirements" and go straight to the Constitution, seeing as this issue has been settled for decades, and these lame attempts to usurp our rights are pathetic at best.

Unfortunately, telling them where to put it won't offer any real hope for the women of Mississippi.

This action offers the pretense of protecting women and does not prevent their rights to an abortion...it places the onus on the 'clinics' that perform the procedures.

CM,

Really? Please answer this, why is it only for abortions, a procedure that's obviously only performed on women, that an in-state provider is needed? Why not all procedures that effect both genders? How is the woman's life in danger if she gets referred to another doctor or transported in an ambulence? Why is that anymore dangerous than me getting some sort of dental procedure, having a complication, and needing an ambulence?

Then, please explain why the Governor himself said that his goal was to elminate abortion in his state?

Oh, and how is it fair to force women to have to travel to a different state to seek out a procedure that's totally legal?

I think those are questions for the lawmakers of Mississippi.

CM,

Than how can you make this statement...

This action offers the pretense of protecting women and does not prevent their rights to an abortion...it places the onus on the 'clinics' that perform the procedures.

And here's the best part. I don't have to answer or prove anything, because my rights to my own body, are Constitutionally protected.

As a general observation, I'm always surprised by how ugly both sides of the abortion debate get. One the one hand you have the angry religious right who think that women can't wait to get knocked up so they can kill one more baby. "Yee haw! Shirley's preggers again! let's go baby killing!" . On the other you have the angry feminazis that stick their middle fingers in their ears yelling "nah nah nah it's not a baby, it's not a human, I don't hear you" while claiming that the gutters of American citys will be clogged with coat hanger fetuses if a woman, god forbid, has to get an ultrasound.

Must be I'm middle of the road because I think you all are nuts reading these comments. Fact is that a fetus is a human. It's certainly not a frog or a turtle. The word "baby" is not a medical term, and if you ask most pregnant women who are not terminating they don't refer to the thing in their belly as a zygote, embryo or fetus. From the day the pink line appears "we're having a baby!" SO let's all stop the symantical argument.

The real question is when is it unethical to terminate a pregnancy as a matter of convenience. Ah there's the rub, because we all have differing views on that. Some would say never, others would allow at any point in the pregnancy. As a woman who has had both an elective abortion, had 3 miscarriages and given birth to a child I would say between 12-14 weeks I start to become uncomfortable with it. For medical reasons, I can understand why there would be a need for 2nd trimester terminations. After the fetus is viable, I believe that every effort should be made to deliver via c-section because at that point it's pretty clear that were talking about a seperate life. I would like to see a medical answer to that question, but I doubt we'll ever get one because of the vitriol on both sides of the spectrum.

I guess what I'm saying is that we can be pro-choice and pro-woman and still be sensitive to the fact that we are talking about terminating a pregnancy, terminating a life... and not simply removing a cancerous growth. It is incredibly difficult to make that decision to terminate a pregnancy. The guilt and shame and sorrow were nearly more than I could bear. If I had to go back and do it over again, I'm not sure that I would. I think that it should be a difficult decision, it should not be made lightly, tears should be shed. I would never presume to think that I could ever make that choice for anyone else. I do understand those who are opposed to it based on their religious belief and why, but I think that they would have more success arguing their point if they approached it from a position of love and offered support to these mothers who are most likely scared and traumatized as it is. And I understand that the pro-choice group is scared of losing these rights and that it is difficult to defend yourself constantly, but at the same time it doesn't help to come of as cold and indifferent to the fact that every time this choice is made a life is lost that we wil never get back.

Sorry, I went on a rant. but I had to get that off my chest.


Personally I wouldn't want my husband to receive a vasectomy from someone who was not a licensed urologist, I wouldn't want my son to have his wisdom teeth extracted by someone who was not a dentist, so I don't think it's a stretch to say that if you want to perform abortions that you be a certified OB/GYN.

As far as being out of state vs. in state - I suppose that has to do with admitting rights to the local hospitals. As long as one doctor on staff has admitting rights, and the clinic in the story has one, that shouldn't be a problem. If something went wrong and a patient began to hemmorage the on staff doctor could be called to admit the patient right away, as opposed to having her wait for hours in the ER waiting room to be examined.

But again, I'm concerned that there is only one location in all of Mississippi to get an abortion. I suppose it's possible, but more likely than not there are dozens of doctors who perform abortions as part of their regular practice. They just don't advertise themselves as "abortion clinics". You don't have to go to a clinic to get one, you know that right? and speaking of treating different procedures differently, I don't see any vasectomy clinics around that only snip guys and send them on their way.

In fact, I think women would be better served to NOT have abortion clinics because there is more to women's reproductive health then just making sure you don't have a baby on board. Clearly many women who seek terminations also need to be given birth control advice, gynecological exams, std screenings, etc. by only addressing the fetus, we are neglecting all the other health concerns that come from being sexually active.

OK, Sarah, let's look at this statement...

This action offers the pretense of protecting women - Pretense...there are several definitions so I'll throw out a couple for you; a claim made or implied; professed rather than real intention or purpose.

and does not prevent their rights to an abortion - If the clinic meets the requirements of the law with Board Certified OB/GYNs with admitting priveleges abortions will continue.

...it places the onus on the 'clinics' that perform the procedures. Onus - a difficult or disagreeable obligation, task, burden, etc.

Does that help?

Anita...
Don't get your panties in a wad.

Sarah...
Lol, you said balls...and vagina. Don't get those too close together or it will create an abortion.

CM,

No. Because if you can't answer any of those basic questions I asked, you can't make any part of that statement with any conviction. You don't know any of that to be true. You can't prove your case, even on the most basic level of answering why abortions are being treated differently or why it is legal to treat them differently.

When you can answer those questions, you can claim to know who the onus falls on or what this law does or doesn't attempt to prevent, or who it is/isn't protecting and why they need to be protected, or how all of that passes strict scrutiny. Right now, all we know to be true, is that I have a protected, Constitutional right to my body and my privacy.

Does THAT help YOU?

It's actually pretty simple....

Board Certified OB/GYNs with admitting privileges...abortions continue.

No Board Certified OB/GYNs with admitting privileges...Clinic closes.

I didn't make the law, didn't have a hand at writing the law and do not hold a position to enforce the law....so, other than my statements that I am constitutionally entitled to, there aren't any questions you've asked that I need to answer.

I'm amazed that the same people who don't want women going to back alley clinics staffed by sketchy doctors are okay with women going to main street clinics staffed by sketchy doctors.

What are you against? geography?

So do you always assert things that you have no insight about as facts, or is that just for this issue?

Board Certified OB/GYNs with admitting privileges...abortions continue.

No Board Certified OB/GYNs with admitting privileges...Clinic closes.

Those are facts. This is your opinion, which you can't prove, but are entitled to...

This action offers the pretense of protecting women and does not prevent their rights to an abortion...it places the onus on the 'clinics' that perform the procedures.

Xina,

You obviously aren't getting that this isn't about "safe" doctors. This is about making access to safe doctors harder...

It is not constitutional to target one procedure and not others. There are plenty of procedures that might be performed by out-of-state doctors: vasectomies, dental surgery, any sort of outpatient clinical procedure that an out-of-state doctor who wants to help the unbelievably poor in Mississippi might come in, briefly, to do.

In any case, read the statements above carefully. A woman who needs to go to a hospital can very easily just be sent--there's a little something called an "ambulance." The woman's care does not have to be handled by the doctor who performed the abortion--it is silly to say that women's health is in danger simply because they wind up getting referred to another, perfectly capable, board-certified physician.

Yes, this law targets just one medical procedure--and that makes it unconstitutional. If women so badly need to have an in-state provider, then everyone else does too. And, remember, hospitals that don't want to be firebombed will refuse privileges to any in-state or out-of-state physician who starts offering abortions. The point here is that poor women will just have to do self-induced abortions again, and then go to emergency rooms afterwards--just like in the old days. And that, my friend, is a heck of a lot more dangerous than having an out-of-state doctor send any patient who has an adverse reaction to a hospital to be cared for by an in-state doctor.

One man's "medical procedure" is another man's murder. I have no place to tell a woman that she has to have a child that was produced by rape or incest or any other reason for that matter, but I also will not shy away from calling it what it is. If that's the only thing I can do to stick up for that unborn child, then that's what i'll do. I'm glad i'll never be in the position to have to kill my baby but I do have a couple of mid-twenties step-daughters i'd like to abort.

Sara- Oh I get that. I do know how to read and I fully understand the motivation behind the law. THe law in and of itself is the question, not the motivation behind it. And I don't have a problem with the what this law is requiring.

As far as you assertation that it is unconstitutional to require different regulations for different procedures, I think your understanding of the constitution is limited at best. The surpreme court has already ruled that the states may regulate abortion services.

In Webster vs. Reproductive Health Services it was ruled that public health workers could be prohibited from performing abortions because a woman's right to have one did not mean that the government had to provide assistance in having one. The law also had a viability test that Justice Oconnor held up stating that the it did not place an "undue burden" on a woman considering an abortion.

In Planned Parenthood vs Casey the court also dismantled Roe's prohibition on the regulation of abortion during the first trimester and its limitation of regulation between the end of the first trimester and the point of fetal viability. The result was that a state's interest in and regulation of potential life could now arguably extend throughout a woman's pregnancy. In addition, the court in Casey also established a less rigorous standard for determining whether state abortion laws are constitutional. In Roev. Wade, the court had declared access to abortion to be a fundamental right and had determined that states could only regulate abortion (before fetal viability) if there was a "compelling state interest." In Casey the court replaced strict scrutiny with a new and less rigorous "undue burden" standard. Under the new standard, regulating abortion before the point of fetal viability would be deemed unconstitutional only if it imposed an undue burden on a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy.

So the question would be if the law in an of itself places an undue burden on a woman seeking an abortion. If there were a shortage of OB/GYNs that have admitting priviledges at hospitals in the state of Mississippi one could argue that the law restricts a woman's access to abortion. However, according to my insurance carrier there are 100 OB/GYNs in Jackson alone, never mind the rest of the state. So there are plenty of qualified doctors who can provide this service in state. Whether or not they choose to is not something the state should concern itself with. All the clinic needs to do is hire doctors that meet the states regulatory guidelines. The burden is on the doctors, not on the patient. It is not the state's obligation to provide qualified practitioners any more than it is the state's responsibility to make sure there are adequate numbers of dentists, neurologists, tatoo artists or any other professional in high demand.

Ahh, but there's the rub. You see the anti-abortion crowd is not about following the law. Nope, they are about targeting and murdering abortion providers. Doctors are scared @!$%#less. They are about putting out hit lists on doctors, names, addresses and following them around, threatening their lives and the lives of their families while industriously attacking clinics and doctor's offices. Murders have been committed in the name of 'saving babies' and the murderers are commended for doing so.

There is only ONE abortion clinic in the entire state. Think about that before you go off on laws and doctors admitting to hospitals, etc. This is not about concern for women, this is about control of women. I fought that battle when I was young and I will fight that battle now and I am tired of the BS, the back and forth and the religiosity. As I stated in a prior post, when the anti-abortion crowd gets their act together and takes every last 'unwanted' child and cares for them, all of them, then I will consider their stance. I remember back alley abortions, septicemia and women dying as a result of botched abortions. I remember women afraid to go to the hospital to seek treatment for a botched abortion, afraid because, newsflash, they could be arrested!!!!

mygirl1- And those same anti-abortion politicians also helped pass many laws to help in the "war on terror" and I would consider those that assault doctors offices and hospitals etc. to be domestic terrorists. We are fighting the wrong fight. What we shouldbe doing is demanding that something be done to stop the terroristic threats and harrassment of doctors who are providing medical treatment to their patients.

But again, as far as rights are concerned, doctors have as much of a right to choose not to perform a procedure if they do not want to, regardless if that reason is religious objection, ethical dillema or fear of community retribution. Just because a procedure is legal doesn't mean that the state has to make sure there are providers willing to perform it. And the state has every right to say that they require a minimum level of qualification of the doctors performing a procedure, including that they have hospital privileges. The abortion clinic simply needs to hire a couple more doctors.

The pro-choice, pro-women's health movement needs to open some women's health clinics that provide a full range of services, including abortion, prenatal care, cancer screenings, menapausal managment, etc. Pro-choice Gynecologists could volunteer one day a week to see patients outside of their private practice. Because they are full service doctors they would have to have hospital priviledges as they would also be expected to deliver babies, perform hysterectomies, Tubal ligations, etc. But instead of actually doing something, the pro-choice activists have become content to carry signs and make angry comments on facebook and do absolutely nothing to further their cause. After Roe v Wade they became complacent. Well, this is what you get when you become complacent about defending your rights.

The abortion clinic simply needs to hire a few more doctors...

Yeah, like I'm going to go work in a combat zone. Did you not read about the 'hit' list placed on doctor's providing abortions? Go educate yourself on the tactics of the anti-abortion crowd. Murder and death threats do not make for a stable working environment, bombing and fires and threats against abortion clinics are also not conducive to getting doctors to want to come and get 'hired.'

Do a little research into "Operation Rescue' and other anti-abortion groups then go do some research on their terrorist tactics

mygirl. these people don't do research. they watch Fux News and get told how to think -- then run off shrieking about everything that Bill, Sarah and Sean tell them to shriek about.

We have the baby killers on the run.

They know that states can regulate proceedures and surgeries - and some states do require DR.s to have hospital priveleges to do proceedures outpatient. That's legal.

The age of viability is dropping all the time due to technology.

So the point where they say the baby cannot live outside the mother is dropping.

Roe v. Wade never adressed the issue of the rights of the unborn children. All it fabricated, I mean interpreted, is a right to privacy -

but think about this:

If Revlon introduced a new lipstick that had the side effect of killing unborn children, would you say no damage was done because the child is not an entity?

Of course not.

You would want that product pulled from the market and Revlon punished!

We simply need to use every form of legal means to limit the killing of unborn children.

You can't privately kill a dog or a cat. The right of privacy does not include killing other beings that you otherwise have no right to kill.

Soon this issue will be exactly where it was and is Constitutionally: left for the individual states to decide.

Don't like it? Move.

Just as before Roe v. Wade, there will be some states that allow abortions.

Let the blood be on their hands.

Sarah I for one am completely against abortion for myself. That said I know some of my friends have had them for whatever the reasons (not my business). You have worded things very nicely, however I have a problem with the hypocrisy in one of your posts.

Sarah-3043284

Lady Cat,

I think the government should mandate that all men who don't want children must have a vesectomy, after all they are reversible. Of course, it will be on their dime, since I don't want to pay for their contraception.

Would this be the equivalent of the gov't telling a man what he can and must do to his body? Sounds like the same thing. Please correct me if i am wrong, as I said I have fully appreciated all your other posts. I am just looking for some clarity. Thank you

Let me understand the Tea Party movement. They claim that they were voted into power to shrink our bloated Government; that there's too much Government intrusion into our personal life; that we are able to decide our own faith better than any Government; that the economy is out of control and they were going to fix it; that they were going to provide jobs. Have I got this straight?

So, how come since all of these job creating, less government advocates have come into power they have not passed any laws dealing with the economy; they have not created any jobs; BUT!! THEY HAVE PASSED OVER 300 LAWS REGULATING A WOMAN'S PERSONAL LIFE; TELLING DOCTOR'S HOW TO DO THEIR JOBS; FORCING DOCTORS TO CONDUCT VAGINA AND WOMB PROBING PROCEDURES AGAINST THEIR WILL; FORCING RELIGION INTO PUBLIC SCHOOLS. ETC.??

What happened to less Government? What happened to more jobs? What happened to improving the economy? WHAT HAPPENED TO LESS GOVERNMENT INTRUSION INTO ONE'S PERSONAL LIFE? WHAT HAPPENED TO ETHICS??

C'mon you Tea Party members. Explain this contradiction from words to action.......How can you justify all of these laws on social issues that directly affect a person's freedom? I'm waiting.....

Yo Ho -

The TEA Party wants the Gov't to obey the Constitution.

Not interpret it to be anything they want, but to actually follow it.

There is no Constitutional right to kill an unborn child.

And all powers not specfically given to the Federal Gov't are left to the states.

Mississippi is well within their rights to require a Doctor who is performing surgery to have hospital priveledges. Other states do it.

There is no power given to the Federal Gov't to force someone to have to pay for someone else's birth control, or to make people buy any product.

Those rights are left to the states. You can go to Massachusetts if you like. No one is being forced to have an abortion or not have one, so you can't really say that even Mississippi is forcing any woman to do anything.

I don't recall the TEA Party saying that there should be no rules on Doctors.

As for the economy, look at inflation. All the money the Federal Gov't is Spending creates it.

Do you understand that 2/3 of Federal Spending is Entitlements? That 1/2 the country pays no income tax? That Over 1/3 are on the Dole? That only 1 in 3 Americans work full time?

The TEA Party is hitting the Liberal/Democrat/Socialist/European/Progressive brick wall of voters bought off with handouts. Look at what that is doing to Europe.

I get that you like abortions.

Oh, wait, I mean you are against abortion but want it to be safe and legal.

Like you are against dogfighting, but want it to be safe and legal.

And against insider trading, but want it to be safe and legal.

Or child molesting, but want it to be safe and legal.

There simply is no example of something as hideous as killing unborn children that we want to be safe and legal.

So to sum it up, your freedom ends where another's begins. And we see unborn children as having personal rights as well.

We respect every human's freedoms.

Ryan: How many unwanted babies are you going to be adopting? Ten? Twenty? How about the handicapped and seriously ill children? Adopting many of those as well? Do you complain about 'welfare queens?' Do you complain about your tax dollars going to support teenage mothers who have multiple children? How much volunteering do you do for orphanages and children's homes? Have you ever heard of the death squads Brazil has on the unwanted street children?

Do those unborn children's rights extend to the mother? What rights do you give the woman? What abut the ten year old girl who recently made the news as the youngest female to ever give birth? Are you ok with a child having a baby? What about a mother with six children, abandoned by her husband, will you step in and care for the seventh child?

It's all very good to care about the unborn, however, when do you step in and care for the born? What about those children, or is a fetus more important than a child?

Tyler, before you all condem Wildbill look at your own posts. Wildbills post may or may not be appropriate but they sure are not bannable especially from a person like Tyler. He posts and edits and has the power to ban restrict or say what is proper or not. Tyler is no way an angle either. He blogs and post on such sites as:

tyler's Groups

tyler is a member of the following groups:

AfricaVine

Agnosticism

Arena Of Death

Attention Whores

Hot-Chicks

Islam Anti-Defamation League

Islamic Scholars

Open Minded

Police Brutality & Impropriety

Puck U

Respectful Debate

RightsVine

SexVine

The Lonely Position of Neutral

We Hate the Carter IV

Tyler look into yourself and you other's and throw the first stone!

• !

#10.13 - Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:14 PM EDT

Yep, he must be a hell of a guy.

I love that Nina Simone!

That's true. If it weren't for Mississippi, Texas would be dead last in everything but the death penalty.

Let's not leave out Tennessee. They rank something like 47th in education and the Governor is about to sign another anti-science piece of legislation.

Any chance we can set the way back machine to 1861 and go whisper to Lincoln that he ought to let these rednecks secede from the US.

C'mon guys, Florida! Where neighborhood watchers can shoot 17 year olds because they look suspicious and get away with it!

oh no - I gotta vote my state of GA -where we made victims of rape, stalking and domestic violence to be known from now on as the "accusers" . And we make it just for women - all other crimes are still known as the victims of the crime.

Don't forget Alabama... they thank 'god' for Mississippi being the only worse state than them.

The religious right wants to make sure that women become -- and stay -- as second citizens, in these states chock-full of ultra-conservative male politicians that don't place a high value on a widespread, secular education for their own electorate. (Unfortunately, "Pregnant and Poor," comes to mind).

@rradiko

Define second class citizen... Is there a bill of rights for Second class citizens? I was under the impression all citizens in the united states had the same constitutional rights.

That's the problem. So the poor will be stuck with having children, so they'll just go on the welfare train and we can pay a lot more to them that way, as opposed to just letting them have the abortion of the child they can't afford.

Abortion free?? Total BS. All it will do is drive it underground. Smoking pot is illegal too but I guarantee you if I went to Mississippi I could find some pot in less that 10 minuets.

This law does absolulely nothing. According to all federal and state laws, a hospital may not deny emergency care to any patient whether or not their particular doctors have access to the hospital. ...........

This law is just another attempt by the American Taliban to impose their form of Sharia law upon women.

That's right Ellis - all those kind men who want to help us into our burkas - for our own protection... of course

It's a POS backwater state full of inbred lowlifes. This only proves it.

Trent Lott is a Mississippian. 'nuff said.

OMG, I am laughing my arse off! Not at the story itself, mind you, but how I just LOVE how a story about a southern state opens the floodgates and lets all the varmints who live elsewhere, run amuck!
It just shows how many imbiciles are born every day.

and Gee Charlie...I bet if you went to any OTHER state, you'd find pot in less than 10 minutes too...even wher YOU live. Maybe YOU should come OUT of the underground and get some fresh air?

This is what happens when you dont go out and vote, not just for the President, people should vote for everything, and get the people who will do what the masses wont, not what a small group beleive, GO VOTE THEM OUT!!!

Hey there Conway Twit. In the future, when you feel the need to refer to others as IMBECILES, it would serve you better if you could actually SPELL the word IMBECILE correctly.

Else, you end up looking like an IMBECILE yourself.

Cheers!

A little cheese with your whine there Barney Fife #5.9? No bigger fish to fry with your chips? You have to go after a spelling error. How very big of you....or really, how very insignificant you are. You just made your own self look like the IMBECILE you claim I am! Thanks for making my day!
"cheers" !

I care because it's wrong.

Back to the rat on a string.

Thinkaboutit: No they would just ship those individuals to LIBERIA! Know what I mean!

Actually, slavery never went away, it was just renamed. It's now called Welfare.

To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.

T Roosevelt

No, slavery is out of date. Wage slavery is more cost efficient than original slavery in MS ever was.

Jim, don't you have something else to do?

Jim69: ......it's now called Welfare.

More brilliance from Jim. While Jim continues to flog himself in front of a photo of Trent Lott in his boxer shorts, Jim doesn't realize that this action in Mississippi will proudly create even more Welfare Babies for its citizens to pay for.

Ah, ya just gotta love Right Wing Idiocy. They whine about welfare. And at the same time, oppose abortion and support idiotic, ineffective Abstinence Only programs -- and BOTH of these measures do NOTHING MORE than grow the welfare roles exponentially. Go figure!

Cheers!

Yo Bill...I guess I missed it on a calendar somewhere, but is this "spit-out-random-bits-of-idiotic-right-wing**-talking-points" day? Or is there a diagnosis of Tourettes somewhere in your family? This is like your third in a row -random boogey man coupled with random topic.

WTF does the [the new right wing boogeyman] Black Panthers have to do with anything in the article....other than your non-sequitur rantings?

The truth is that Mississippi and the rightwing nutters don't give a rat's ass about living children, but will bitch to high Heaven in a few years when those same "unborn babies" are on welfare. These laws have nothing to do with "women's safety" so you only insult yourselves when you people spout those lies as justification.

The TRUTH is that you want to inflict your religious tripe, your Christian Sharia, onto others (especially women), and no lie is too big to stop you. That's an amusing irony when one considers one of the recent screeds of the idiots on the right about overt dishonesty of Muslims to infidels.

Why don't you take up a collection to buy yourself your very own uterus so you'll quit meddling with someone else's?

**No, I won't dignify the rightwing tripe machine by sullying a name like Republican.

"Why don't you take up a collection to buy yourself your very own uterus so you'll quit meddling with someone else's?"

Outstanding!!

Great Post Fred - When did the Black Panthers become a threat? Wild Bill fell asleep in the 60's and just woke up.

Fred, in Texas women are knitting a whole passel of them for Rick Perry to dump them on it so he will have his very own so he will keep his hands off ours. Texas land of the forced vaginal ultrasound and continued cuts in women's health care, aid to pregnant women and poor children.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/politics/Hand-knitted--145859295.html

Very poignant considering knitting needles were once used as surgical instruments before legalized abortion. Many people think abortion is bad done in a clean clinic...it's going to be much worse if women are forced to go back to the way things were.

Tyler, before you all condem Wildbill look at your own posts. Wildbills post may or may not be appropriate but they sure are not bannable especially from a person like Tyler. He posts and edits and has the power to ban restrict or say what is proper or not. Tyler is no way an angle either. He blogs and post on such sites as:

tyler's Groups

tyler is a member of the following groups:

AfricaVine

Agnosticism

Arena Of Death

Attention Whores

Hot-Chicks

Islam Anti-Defamation League

Islamic Scholars

Open Minded

Police Brutality & Impropriety

Puck U

Respectful Debate

RightsVine

SexVine

The Lonely Position of Neutral

We Hate the Carter IV

Tyler look into yourself and you other's and throw the first stone!

• !

#10.13 - Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:14 PM EDT

Tyler is the moderator.....Love it or leave it...Unfortunately no judge can ever be completely fair,that is why Jesus was always telling others not to judge.....Tyler does the best job he can...I wish you could say whatever you want on here and anywhere but people are prone to violence over words,so Tyler has the job of chilling people out for a day or so in the hopes that nutty people don't get incited like Anti-abortion people you know" Pro-lifers" are ironically more likely to do( You Know like killing doctors kinda weird to consider yourself Pro-life then kill, but that's what crazy is )

Do your best Tyler..

They have teeth in Mississippi?

yes, of course, these women deserve better, but nine times out of ten they vote republican; so perhaps they are now paying for their voting mistakes; we'd all better learn from this

Exactly. A very good reason to NOT vote for Mutt. He and his Mormon Pro-life crowd can shove it.

Wild Bill - You should move there, you'd fit right in.

Funny how you use "your" twice, one is correct, one isn't. You try to figure that one out.

@tyler

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

@ tyler...thank you so much for banning Wild Bill...it's pathetic that people think it's OK to use such a word.

Shame that blacks, gays, women, and other minorities are having the clock turned back and having to fight AGAIN for rights they fought for 50 years ago...and some more recently won rights such as the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. We need to be going forward, not backwards....

Mississippi would rather to anything else rather than deal with the state issues. Does anyone wonder how many of their local, county, state and federal politicians have adopted or are fostering?? Hell they can't even teach Billie Bob or Sue Ellen how to read and write!

And all of the Republicans and their mouthpieces say no one is trying to take away women's reproductive rights - that's just the liberal media.

This is just a preview -and they are trying to tone down this issue -what will they do after the election?

lemur lady

@ tyler...thank you so much for banning Wild Bill...it's pathetic that people think it's OK to use such a word.

I agree with banning Wild Bill, but really...you think the hate words and the mockery everyone else is spewing is much better?
If I remember correctly, ALL POSTERS are supposed to obey rule # 1, isn't it? The one about respecting others? I don't see respect for anyone anywhere on this board, especially for those in Mississippi and other southern states. Boards are for opinions, but these comments go way beyond opinions.

Respect is earned, Conway.

Mississippi hasn't done anything to earn respect here.

Odd that you are whining about Respect and mockery of others here --- didn't you just finish calling everyone IMBECILES a few post above? (Despite the fact that you were unable to spell IMBECILE correctly...) Are you just trying to win the POT MEET KETTLE contest? Or do you simply have a problem with honesty and integrity...a

Cheers!

Tyler, before you all condem Wildbill look at your own posts. Wildbills post may or may not be appropriate but they sure are bannable especially from a person like Tyler. He posts and edits and has the power to ban restrict or say what is proper or not. Tyler is no way an angle either. He blogs and post on such sites as:

tyler's Groups

tyler is a member of the following groups:

AfricaVine

Agnosticism

Arena Of Death

Attention Whores

Hot-Chicks

Islam Anti-Defamation League

Islamic Scholars

Open Minded

Police Brutality & Impropriety

Puck U

Respectful Debate

RightsVine

SexVine

The Lonely Position of Neutral

We Hate the Carter IV

Tyler look into yourself and you other's and throw the first stone!

Hey barnb*t*h #10.12 ,

Whatever your problem is, it isn't because of me, so your incessant need to come after me, means more to you than it does me. Try a laxative to help you clean out your demons!

"CHEERS!"

you said it.....Miss and Tex are damned

Texas,

You can still come here and kill babies. Not sure what you are whining about.

Another lie from Republican twaddle.

Killing a baby is felony murder. You can't do that anywhere in the US.

STOP TELLING LIES!

Which is why women must stay united against these bullying tactics. Remember your daughters, their daughters, etc. The GOP wants women to go back to the old days of backrooms and coat hangers.

But haven't you heard Robin? You no longer have free choice over your body. I get to decide what you do with it and with whom. After all, who better to decide what's best for you, your body and your unborn child than someone other than you. What do you think this is, a democracy?

(I am sincerely kidding)

Truth in jest.

This all just makes me furious.

I wonder how many adopted children these nuts have.

Robin, really, Adoption? Hell nobody knows what kid belongs to what parent down there in MS. Adoption that be to funny.

Yes, and they put out the lies about how it will affect them in the long term....mentally. Most women are relieved to be able to have an abortion for whatever private reason they need to. No one else's business, period!

Jennifer, you are exactly right!

Yes, Jennifer, ESPECIALLY when the father of her child is ALSO the child's GRANDFATHER!!!

If you don't believe in abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE. Nobody comes to your house and says you must.

If I value a fetus as a child (which you say is entirely my right), how can you ask me not to feel bad for the unborn child? It has nothing to do with your house, it has to do with how you treat your child. I simply have a different perspective on human rights.

that's fine, jan. it's nice that you have a different view. apply that to your life, and allow others the same right to apply their views to their own lives.

grow up!

Hey Bernitch, that's your view - don't force me to live by my views. I'll live by whomever's views I please thank you very much.

Well, at least I have some compassion. And if you need to tell me to grow up because you can't convince me as to how I am wrong, you are the immature one.

Well, if thats how you want to look at it... Let's try this. I don't like my neighbor, can I abort him?! Mom and I don't really get along, can I abort her?! I mean, if I'm living by "my own views" why not, right?! Hmmm...No, I can't...I wonder why??? Oh yeah, thats right...it's murder! I'd be ending someone else's life, something I don't have the right to do unless I want to live out the rest of my days in prison. "1.2 million procedures in the US last year"...Looks like 1.2 million people need to be placed in prison!

If you can't look into your child's eyes and say "I would have had no regrets aborting you," then something is not right. If you can do it, then I guess you are doing the right thing.

People need to go and take a biology class or something. Of course many Republicans would just say that the biology book is filled with lies and untruths.

after reading jan's rants here, you know that's the case... i her world, EVERYONE must live by HER PERSPECTIVE!!

I'm not doing most of the ranting, and I can guarantee that am more educated in science than you are. Care to give me your credentials? Oh, and I've voted democrat every time.

Can anyone here even tell me where I am wrong? Or why? Other than perspective or "personhood," because personhood is a political term, not scientific.

Logic is not the strong suit of anti-abortion zealots.

Yeah, I too was curious about what the "protect children from abuse" bit was supposed to be referring to.

This is what happens when you cave in to right-wing terrorism. People are going to suffer for this unconstitutional monstrosity. A LOT of people.

Oh, like that is going to happen. But I agree.

wouldn't that be great....but of course the GOP has the men dictating women's health issues

How about castrating them? That would help solve the unwanted pregnancies problem.

I'd be first in line for a vasectomy. Alas, I cannot afford one right now.

Steve--go to a Planned Parenthood clinic. They can help you find out where vasectomies are available at low cost or on a sliding scale. They really do help men, also.

Travis---That is the cruelest comment I have ever heard...And I am not very sensitive to words read on the Web.....

Tyler please read this post and look at his....................

great comment...and so true!!!

abby,

No, but maybe we should shut off the federal tap to Mississippi, one on those states who suckle freely. Oddly, part of this is due to its poverty and high number of single mothers. Perhaps we ought to view and talk about Mississippi as be one of the true "welfare queens". The last bastion of Old South aristocracy, keeping the lower classes low by denying them education, legal rights and political power. Private schools for the wealthy, along with loans and business connections. Little or nothing for the rest. And for their privilege, the rest of us pick up the bills. Who exactly won the 1861-1865 war?

Milwaukee WI:

Failing educations system

High unemeployment

A lot of unwanted pregnancies

predominately Democrat

The governor in WI is from what party again janman?

Their House has a majority in what party?

Abbey, not sure of your point. Would it help if we looked at what states Bank Of America, Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sacs, and the Auto Makers are headquartered in?

Democratic states. But, oh yeah, let's blame Bush.

I guess you just prefer a better class of trash.

But, oh yeah, let's blame Bush.

Only because the banking and housing crash are his fault. So yeah, let's blame Dumbya!

"We don't have N-words in my state!

MS is 37% black, about 3X higher than the nat'l average.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/28000.html

zupercram--Yes, MS is 37% black, but it is still almost completely segregated. It is quite possible that a young white person who always lived in a white area would never have seen a black person and vice-versa. As everyone has said, it is a very uneducated state and lack of knowledge about the states racial makeup by its own citizens is a part of that.

I beg to differ. The 37% are growing quickly and moving to a neighborhood near you.

And you twitter have a fear of that,and fear breeds hate..

Obviously the "sanctity of life" only applies if the fetus was conceived without any "unpleasantness".

Rape? Death of the Mother? The fetus seems to be inconsequential. Pure posturing

Yes, that's exactly it, DarkShadow1701. They believe ANY child born is a blessing, even if that child is the product of rape. The rapist can wash his hands of the responsibility of a child, but the victim gets to not only pay all the medical bills for check-ups and the actual delivery of the child, but she may possibly lose her job when she takes maternity leave for a few weeks after delivering the child, and will have to raise a child that will remind her of the horrific, scarring act she was a victim of.

Are you trying to tell me Hot-in-Miami that child is not a gift from God as Rick Sanitarium has told us????

(I am asking tongue in cheek as a former rape victim who did become pregnant from that incident, at the tender age of thirteen. It is still traumatic and I am approaching my 50th b-day)

Hot-in-Miami--actually, a rapist can claim visitation rights even if he (I'm assuming this particular person is male--there are female rapists, though) has been imprisoned for the rape. He can also, especially if not convicted, sue for custody.

I'm quite serious--look it up. Rape is not a reason for a man's parental rights to be severed. There was a rapist in Oklahoma who successfully sued for visitation rights with the daughter that the victim had as a result of the rape he was imprisoned for.

A rapist can also prevent the women from putting the child up for adoption. He can then be, quite legally, part of the victim's life and the child's life until the child is 18. Have a great day!

Beanathome: That's it; I'm crawling under my bed and not coming out again. That's the most horrifying news I've heard in at least a year. Please tell me this hasn't happened in the US outside of Oklahoma. What the heck is this country coming to?

Oh I don't know siesta, you could easily be an official member of the Mississippi Mensa Members. I mean, you do write in complete sentences and spell words correctly. That alone puts you in the top 5% of all the residents of the state.

If Mississippi's EEG finally flat-lines, can we pull the plug on it? Please?

Most of Faulkner's Bible thumping contemporaries didn't care very much for him.

HAH i agree......Trent Lott should have been aborted

I think that it would be great for Democrats to move to Republican states for a while, change the anti-women laws for the better, elect Democrats and then move back to their original states after educating the masses of what some Radical Republicans are actually trying to do.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to live in a state filled with bigots?

dc, if you really think that abortion equals infanticide, you should move to Mississippi yourself. And as another poster has already said, there are no other outpatient procedures that require a board-certified doctor to send the patient to the hospital if the colonscopy or whatever goes wrong.

dcpyle,

What about the same requirements for plastic surgeons, orthodontists and dentists, private trauma centers, family physicians, and so on? Are they all under the same requirements for their office surgeries? Or does this only apply to those working specifically on fecund vaginas?

dcpyle:

Why are people complaining about this? They aren't trying to stop the practice. They are only trying to make it safer.

Did you actually read the article? The governor and lt. governor have stated flat-out that their intention with this is to stop all abortion in the state.

dc, if you really think that abortion equals infanticide, you should move to Mississippi yourself.

1. I have no interest in living in Mississippi.

2. You should read my comments a little more carefully.

3. Partial birth abortion is infanticide (you know, the one that Michelle and President Obama wanted brought back that was banned by Congress, the one procedure where a baby is birthed up to base of skull and surgical scissors are jammed into the base of the skull to open a hole for the suction of brain matter and collapse of skull while infant is alive), as is the killing of birthed babies that survived the abortion process. And, some do survive the saline procedure. These are thrown into sinks or buckets and left to die with their skins burned open by the saline in most instances if the abortions did not kill them.

If that is not "infanticide and its variants" I do not know what is.

Did you actually read the article? The governor and lt. governor have stated flat-out that their intention with this is to stop all abortion in the state.

Did you actually read the article? Neither the governor nor the lt. governor wrote the legislation. They stated their opinions as to what they hoped it would do but what it actually does is to make sure that doctors who perform the procedures have to be licensed to practice in the State of Mississippi and have admitting privileges. Currently, those who perform the procedures in that clinic are not licensed in the State of Mississippi. That is scary and/or at least should be scary to women, in my opinion.

The Obama's have not supported "partial birth abortions" nor were they for the killing of "birthed babies." You simpleton.

Actually, you didn't read the article, it states that they must be board certified OB/GYNs and all of them are. However, they cannot get admitting privileges because they come from out of state.

The Obama's have not supported "partial birth abortions" nor were they for the killing of "birthed babies." You simpleton.

I have a letter from Michelle Obama somewhere in my files that says otherwise. She thought it was a horrendous thing that Congress would strike down the practice of any kind of abortion and that it took one more choice away from women. She tried to organize and raise money to try to deal with the situation. Maybe she did not really know what partial birth abortion was at the time she did that? Just trying to be fair.

Actually, you didn't read the article, it states that they must be board certified OB/GYNs and all of them are. However, they cannot get admitting privileges because they come from out of state.

They need to be in the state to have admitting privileges because there are restrictions without further certification in the state of practice. Simple fix: Hire somebody in the state or have one of the current team members move across the border. Again, what is the point of the complaints?

dcpyle--what people like to call "partial birth abortions" were typically performed on fetuses which were already dead or fetuses which had no brain other than a brain stem. They were also performed when the mother only had the choice between abortion and her own death--along with, typically, the death of the fetus. These abortions were performed so that the fetuses could be removed intact (some fetuses also had a deformity which caused the head to swell and crush the developing brain), their parents could hold them and mourn them. It was a viable procedure, performed in most cases out of kindness and charity.

Those fetuses are now cut up in utero and removed in parts. A woman does not get to the 6th or 7th month of a pregnancy unless she wanted that pregnancy (with the rare exception--some women are a bit mentally disturbed, but this is a very rare situation that really should be handled by a psychologist).

So--who is it that doesn't know what "partial birth abortion" is? You or me?

You cannot hire anyone in Mississippi who will perform abortions because no one wants to have a death mark. I'm sure there is perhaps one brave soul--but how long will s/he last given that the anti-abortion protestors in Mississippi will put on the Internet a person's name, picture, home address, photographs of the house with good spots for a sniper marked in red, pictures of the clinic, and the doctor's itinerary. Hospitals in Mississippi that don't want to get firebombed will refuse permission to practice OB/GYN to anyone who is not located in Mississippi. As soon as the person moves out of state, that person would no longer be eligible to practice (the hospitals just revoke the privilege).

You do not seem to realize that hospitals do not have to grant privileges. They can simply refuse. And, refuse they will if they do not want to be firebombed. Can you follow this at all, or are you really so limited that you do not understand how this works?

Not so the majority of PBA's were not already dead, nor brain dead, or missing vital components for life. That is totally incorrect.

beanathome,

It is you who does not know about the procedure and what it entails. The baby is turned to be breeched and then birthed up to the neck near the base of the skull, so that forceps or surgical scissors may be used to separate the brain from brain stem and then use suction to suck out the brain matter to allow the skull to be collapsed. Typically, it is done in the last trimester. It is one of the most heinous of medical procedures because the infant is very much alive during the procedure. Ever pithed a frog for biological sciences? This procedure is like that.

The fetuses that are cut up and removed in pieces were referred to by me using the "powertools" remark above. The actual name for that procedure is D&C, or Dilation and Curettage. That is another heinous procedure that at least takes place within the womb rather than partially birthed as in the above medical procedure that Michelle Obama described as "a valid medical procedure." A valid procedure PBA may be but that does not make that form of infanticide right.

As to the rest of your material, no further comment is needed other than to ask, "How many times has this sole Mississippi clinic been firebombed, and what has stopped people from crossing the borders to hit those who already work there since they do not live that far away from the clinic?"

Well, DCPyle, I'll give you this. You tell a GREAT Pyle of lies. And, it appears you actually believe them.

"I have a letter from Michele Obama somewhere in my files where she says This and That!!" --- I love it. It's right up there with the booger-eater in 9th Grade who's never touched a girl, but he tells everyone he's been steadily dating a really hot chick for four years...but she lives in Germany...

Mississippi (and the Republican Party) would be glad to count you among them.

Well, DCPyle, I'll give you this. You tell a GREAT Pyle of lies. And, it appears you actually believe them.

How about that! We have here a real, live, reverse denialist and kool aid drinker.

Sad thing for you is, I do have what I claim to have. I have several other little niceties, too, such as Michelle Obama's Master's Thesis with a racialized bent and Barack Obama's political stance packet and affidavit when he ran for Congress, stating his written views on various things, such as his desire to see all handguns and assault weapons banned and factories closed, his stance on absolute support of abortion in all forms, and so forth, as well as some other interesting, documentary items I have not yet mentioned for the moment.

But, do keep denying. It will go toward an Obama win I am hoping for for this country so I can tell people that I told them so. :-)

By the way, are you looking forward to being taxed for every mile that you drive? (He has already tasked a part of his administration with a feasibility study to tax Americans for every mile that they drive, and one does not task a feasibility study unles one really is serious about doing such a thing).

Are you looking forward to gasoline prices in the $6 to $10 a gallon range over the next several years? (He has promised to the sound of thundering, Democrat applause to end oil and gasoline subsidies).

Are you looking forward to new carbon taxes, carbon fines via the EPA, and so forth, and the utility rate hikes to make up for it? (America cannot afford any more years of Democrat control of the Senate and Obama White House).

Are you looking forward to the prices of everything going up because of all this new taxation that Obama has been planning for this country? Do some serious research for yourself and see for yourself what he has planned and promised for America right under their noses!

oh yeah? OH YEAH??

We'll -- i have jesus christ's foreskin, and and and and I have Rush Limbaugh's fake Rx Vicodin bottles, and and and and and and I have Dumbya Bush' signature on a cocktail napkin where he admits he's a moron, and and and and and My dad can beat up your dad!!

By the way...how's your mom? do you still hate her for everything she did to you as a child?

Yep. Just skip over the issues and hide your head in the sand, Bernitch. America is in the state that it now is because of millions of people who do just that. Over the last three years of Obama and clan, America has had 1 out of two Americans plummetted into the realm of being at or below the Federal Poverty Level. People like you want to keep him in office to do yet more. I get it. Thanks for nothing....

Yeah -- blame Obama for the recession and housing/banking crash brought to us by Dumbya Bush and the GOP.

Talking about shoving your head up your behind and IGNORING FACTS!

Wow, the GOP has HEAD-UP-BUTT disease ---- and it's a pandemic!

christ on a biscuit. how little some idiots know or understand what has brought us to the mess we're in. honestly, we are doomed to repeat all the same tragic errors, if people continue to tow the GOP party line and repeat this mindless, moronic rhetoric. You're good at repeating talking points from Faux Noise, but little more... It shows how quickly people are ready to repeat the same mistakes, just to see their moron "leadership" back in power to drive their ridiculous social agendas.

Banking and housing both started their decline when the Bush Admin eliminated the Federal Agencies dedicated to regulation and investigating predatory lending practices at the Federal Level. I know – my partnership owned a large regional mortgage company up until 2003. When Bush’s own stimulus policies weren’t working and he was burning through the surplus handed down to him, he cut all those federal agencies way back – one example (of many) is the RESPA division which, in early 2002, he cut down to TWO PEOPLE for a total of 50 states – and, when he did that, his administration actually sent an official mailer out to every bank and mortgage company in the US. (I know, because we received one of them). And, magically, every major mortgage bank in the US who had questionable ethics and unquestionable greed, started up all the “really cool” predatory lending practices, especially toward subprime customers, to make a quick buck (and, lots of them).

Countrywide, Dime, First Franklin, IndyMac, MILA, and a whole list of others started the ridiculous 1.5% loans, and the $125% LTV loans. These kinds of loans are the biggest reasons why the housing market began to crash, and thus, banks began to crash. Once we saw the big guys doing this in 2002/03, we put our mortgage company up for sale and sold it within 6 months of listing it. Had we held on much longer, it would have been worthless.

Bush and the GOP knew his economic policies weren’t working, so he built a false economy based upon the largest increase in signature debt, HELOC debt and refinance debt ever seen in any presidential term. And when these short term 1.5% loans and 125% LTV loans came due 3-5 years later, many ballooned and fell into default. More like avalanched into default. This all started LONG before Obama’s election. And it is directly related to Bush’s policy – which was specifically written to encourage banks to build up a false economy based on spending that was derived from more debt, NOT more jobs. For a period, more jobs followed of course, due to more spending. But it was all spending of borrowed money. Of course, the secondary market failed, and then, who was the first major bank to finally drop? Countrywide – the first major lender to offer these crazy loans after Bush wiped out every federal agency dedicated to regulation and to investigating predatory lending practices. Others followed. IndyMac Bank collapsed in 2008. Washington Mutual, the largest S&L in the US, also failed in 2008. The list goes on! You cowards want to blame these colossal disasters on Obama? Really??

None of this happens overnight. This took a few years and it didn’t happen a few weeks after Obama was elected, like some morons would like you to think. We saw it coming a mile away in 2002, and took action to get out before it got bad. So did many other smaller mortgage companies who also sold off at that time.

Seriously, you can “blame the DEMs” all you like. Blame Obama all you like! It’s simply ridiculous. Still, you continue with your silly anti-Obama ranting... Blaming Barney Frank and a couple others, for blocking a GOP Controlled Congress? Really?? LOL!! And yet, even what you’re claiming --- it would not have had the effect on the crisis you’re suggesting. Because the secondary market wasn’t responding to that (do you even KNOW what the Secondary Market is?) – it was collapsing due to defaulting short-term refinance and HELOC loans that had largely begun getting awarded in 2002/03.

You had a GOP Controlled White House from 2001 – 2009. And a GOP controlled Congress (BOTH houses) from 1995 – 2007. The collapse initially started in 2005 when the first wave of defaults began to show up; it picked up speed by 2006, and was in full swing by 2007.

AND, try this scenario: Even if you could show this was due to Democratic controlled policy before 1995 (which you cannot) – then, with 12 years of full GOP legislative control after that in BOTH HOUSES, why the hell didn’t the GOP solve the problem before this happened? You keep claiming the GOP is brilliant, with all the talent – then what the hell happened for the 12 years they controlled both houses and the Executive Branch? Didn’t they have the talent and smarts to FIX ANYTHING? Or, were they just hoping their false economy would make them look good long enough to ride it out?

The car drove soundly into the wall. GOP Pres Bush was in the driver’s seat for all that time, as was the GOP Congress. How long you gonna try to blame this crash on someone else? When do you cowards grow your cajones enough to man-up and own your crap?

Interesting. I have never said anything about the Republicans being brilliant. My view is that we should vote all Republicans and Democrats out of office for several decades as punishment for what happened.

In point of fact, both parties are responsible for what happened; the Democrats more. But, the foundation for the failure was laid by both Carter and Clinton, with the enforcement of Janet Reno and the assistance of no less than Obama's ACORN. Legislation enacted under those two administrations forced banks to lend to those who could not pay them and forced banks to lend in lower income areas at the penalty of being hurt financially by fines and other niceties.

Bush warned Congress back in 2001 that "ugly things were a comin' if they did not do something quickly about Fannie and Freddie." Congress told him to shut up and that things were fine.

He also warned the Democrat-controlled Congress of the last half of his second term that the economy "was likely to take a big hit" if they did not do something quickly. Again, they told him to shut up and mind his own business, and that he did not know what he was talking about. The rest is history.

But, that is not the worst of it. The worst came over the last three years with the Democrat-controlled Senate being at the root of it. Are you even aware of how many jobs packages have been either killed or left to languish on the desk of Harry Reid at the encouragement of Obama?!? This latest jobs package that the Senate is trying to push is being fought by the House because of the legislation slipped into it that allows for raising of the debt ceiling and increased spending, both of which will push America as a nation closer to bankruptcy. I'd fight this last piece of Senate legislation, too, if I were in office.

But, you just keep believing the media hype and misinformation. It is what the Democrats want. They want you to shift the blame from Democrats and give it all to Republicans when reality is really something far, far different than fantasy. They want to gain full power so that they can finally build this nation into what they want, an aristocratic democracy with the abject poor under their control and 'benevolent' thumbs.

And, just keep on making assumptions about my political stance (see above)--of which you so obviously know nothing.

And, just keep on making assumptions about my political stance

Not tough to do... obama obama obama!! waah waah waah!! democrats are MORE responsible because I say so. but I'm too cowardly to admit where i sit! waah waah waah!!

Whatever...

just another shreiking lowlife who knows nothing about this country's state of affairs and how we got here. no facts, just hyperbole and shrieking.

doomed to repeat...

Bernitch,

Typical response from those who refuse to look at the bigger picture and who want only to believe what the Media and the Democrats feed them. Don't deal with the facts; just hurl insults and act like an infant. Well, here is something else for you to use a springboard for more childish behavior and dispersion of insults at those with whom you disagree. The following is from some of Obama's own paperwork and political survey he filled out while running for Illinois State Senate:

24. Do you support:

a. Medicaid funding for abortions? Yes.

b. insurance coverage of abortions for state employees? Yes.

c. parental consent/notification for minors seeking abortions? Depends on how young - possibly for extremely young teens, i.e. 12 or 13 year olds.

d. any other restrictions on abortions. No.

Note that last line? "No restrictions on abortion." Banning PBA is a restriction on abortion, in case you were wondering. :)

So because he had this stance on Abortion when he was running for state senate he caused the recession? HUh DC ?

Never said that, sw philly. Please visit a Sylvan Learning Center ASAP. By the way, he and his wife still hold this same stance and this article above is about abortion. The economy had the foundation laid for failure by Carter, Clinton, and had major assistance from Obama and his ACORN in the years that led up to the recession.

Both parties in Congress also did nothing when they were warned by no less than Bush that bad things were around the corner. They all need to go.

Over the last three years, things got so bad that 1 out of 2 Americans now sit at or below the Federal Poverty Level, with government spending more out of control than even Bush's administration and the Democrats in the Senate keep trying to slip in yet more spending. They do it by hiding it within jobs legislation so that they can lay the blame on Republicans for the non-passage of said legislation, all the while several jobs packages and legislation from the House sit languishing on the desk of Harry Reid at the behest of Obama. That is why the economy still sucks.

We need Obama out of the White House and every single Republican and Democrat out of Congress over the next decade to fix this debacle.

what?

Technically, there is some truth to this. In Mississippi, the people who are poor register Democrat, if they register at all. And, abortions are most commonly performed due to lack of medical care, fear of losing a job, or lack of financial capability to raise another child (and lack of money for birth control--and lack of understanding of birth control due to inadequate education). So, yes, most abortions are performed on the poor--who are more likely to be Democrats. There's a sort of odd logic here.

Sorry beanathome its not odd logic its not being able to think with logic. its a growing problem.

I often wonder why so much focus is placed on abortion when referring to "reproductive rights" and so little attention is paid to the active choice people make to have intercourse or not. The process to conceive a child is simple and requires little intelligence. In most normal circumstances (obviously rape, incest, and sexual abuse are excluded) the "reproductive right" exists in the choice to have intercourse or not. This choice is the single easiest point to prevent a pregnancy (a child in the making) and save everyone's time (the person's and the doctor's). There's an old addage by Benjamin Franklin, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", that makes sense at so many levels.

Why don't we focus our energies on constructive ways to help people understand and make more informed choices? Is it too difficult or are we just unwilling to invest the time? At the end of the day helping people to make good choices will get them further down the road to success in life.

You'd be "surprised" at all the people of Mississippi, that came out to vote for the first time in their lives, during the BO election. Seriously.