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Erik Schelzig / AP
Rep. Bill Dunn, left, and Rep. Harry Brooks, both Republicans from Knoxville, during a House session in Nashville, Tenn., on Monday. Dunn is the main sponsor of a bill seeking to allow teachers to question evolution.
Activists were waging a last-minute battle Thursday to scuttle a bill that they say would gut science education in Tennessee by allowing public schools to cast doubt on widely-accepted scientific principles, including biological evolution and climate change.
"What it does is bring the political controversy into the classroom, where there is no scientific controversy," said Larisa DeSantis, who teaches in the Department of Earth and Environment at Vanderbilt University. "It’s scary, as a parent and as an educator."
DeSantis spoke to msnbc.com from the office building of Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam just before delivering a petition signed by more than 4,000 citizens calling on him to veto HB368. The bill easily passed the state Legislature and now awaits the governor’s signature to become law. Haslam has indicated he would probaby sign the legislation.
The bill says the goal of science education is to help students "develop critical thinking skills." It says the General Assembly has found "the teaching of some scientific subjects, including, but not limited to, biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning, can cause controversy" and says instructors should feel free to explore the "scientific weaknesses" in these theories.
The bill's sponsor, Republican Rep. Bill Dunn of Knoxville, a self-described conservative and Catholic, has said the bill is about "objective scientific facts."
Secularists and scientists argue HB368 is an attempt to introduce religious beliefs such as creationism or "intelligent design" as science, thereby undermining broadly accepted scientific principles and hurting students' education.
"As a science teacher I would say there is no controversy over evolution or climate change in the scientific literature," said DeSantis.
"Sure, we argue about the details. But these are core ideas … that are not controversial."
Critics have dubbed the legislation the "Monkey Bill," a reference to the "Scopes Monkey Trial" of 1925 -- a landmark legal case in which the state of Tennessee charged high school science teacher John Scopes of violating a law barring the teaching evolution in public schools. Scopes was a test case for the American Civil Liberties Union, which wanted to challenge the law which had been spearheaded by a Christian fundamentalist in the Tennesee legislature. Scopes was found guilty and the law remained on the books until 1967.
National organizations urged the state and the governor to jettison the bill.
Among the groups that have announced opposition are The National Association of Biology Teachers, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Institute for Biological Sciences and the Tennessee Science Teachers Association. The bill has also been lambasted by secularists and civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee, as a violation of the church-state divide.
"This legislation, which perpetuates the teaching of non-science with a seemingly neutral approach, allows creationists to continue to make unfounded attacks against evolution," states a letter sent Thursday to Haslam from the nonprofit Americans United for Separation of Church and State .
The letter also criticizes two other Tennessee bills that are on the governor’s desk — one that would allow the 10 Commandments to be displayed in public buildings, including schools, and another that would allow teachers to take part in prayer and religious activisties before and after school.
Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United, said believes all three bills will face constitutional challenges if they become law. He said he hopes the governor will veto the legislation, if only for practical reasons.
"I think a lot of governors do understand that there are consequences about passing legislation that so clearly violates the constitution,” Lynn said. “It’s up to him now and I hope he balances (that). They shouldn’t be paying for lawsuits when there are plenty of other things to pay for in Tennessee."
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For all you science Billybobs, since you referenced Einstein, did you know that Einstein believed that GOD did in fact create the universe, and that he (god) was not involved in the personal lives on man. That is a fact - the conditions surrounding it have not changed nor has it regardless of the changes in environement.
How bout all the 98% who said the facts supported Pluto being a planet (and was taught as such) until the next group of 98%ers came along and said no it wasn't? The only observable fact is there is a large mass continuing to orbit in the same place as it has always been. Actually that rock hasn't "evolved" or "appeared" to evolve as did the "fragments" (partial information) of skull did.
Fairytales are all around us, does it matter if it is some all knowing being "created" or some random event (Big Bang) "created"? If all the science and facts were in you'd be able to recreate and prove that a big explosion created life.
Theories last until a new fact is found, the new fact is found by someone daring to work outside the box and disgarding the 98%.
So in the end we continue to be amazed at the discoveries that have been put in front of us without any clear explanation of how it came to be. Our science is an attempt to explain it all, and as demonstrated throughout history the 98% group approval rating (talk about sheep) has routinely been disgarded. Understanding that you may never understand the "how it all began" aspect along with many other things should be accepted and allow you to focus on more immediate meaningful things.
Science shouldn't be politicized, though Einstein's journey shows that it was and most likely still is. Resources are what transform theoretical into the practical, and when standing there with your hand out, you might think twice about ridiculing the beliefs and values of those who you expect to pay for your little adventure into science. Maybe just add a little caveat about how you the all knowing scientist cannot see any evidence of god at play.
So our astrophysicists spend trillions of dollars looking for another random event in the hopes of sending the evolved pond scum to a planet (maybe just a rock) to interact with the evolved pond scum (if the evolution process is factual- it would hold true for that masses pond scum as well) of that planet and hope we can interact better than we can currently with our own evolved pond scum and treat that environment better than we have this one?
Wonder how evolution would be effected if we focused all the resources we currently expend ridiculing and posturing for others, towards the betterment of our current condition?
a lot of words to not say much;
now, read these words carefully: describe an experiment that will allow someone to attempt to DISPROVE Creationism or Intelligent-Design...
(for example: a thermometer works good for attempting to refute Global Warming)
A scientific theory must be challengeable. How would anyone challenge the claim that God created everything... how would anyone begin to challenge that?
No one can, because it is not science; and so, should not be taught in school.
I can see unemployment in Tennessee rising sharply. As I understand it, there will be a glut of street sweepers, pest control, and delivery personnel within this state.
I will not discuss my politics here (evolution vs intelligent design) but this is akin to a discussion I overheard "I wish my child was able to spend more time learning their bible verses and not have to waste their time learning all of the State capitals (for homework)".
Religion is a large part of your life, I understand completely as a number of my friends are of the BAC crowd but do you NOT want your child to be more successful than yourself?
This is what results when voters elect morons to run the academy.
This is what happens when you get a bunch ignorant retards running your state. They're not interested in the issues that might improve people's lives. They're focus is on pushing their "product".
Wow! The republicans again show that their winning elections is more important than the prosperity of the country. The only way the republicans can keep people who earn less than $200,000.00 a year voting for them against their own personal interests is to make sure education is minimized. They bait them with emotional hot button issues that, even when they hold all three branches of government, they do nothing about. No wonder the rest of the world is passing America in every category except most billionaires.
As of last year, Tennessee ranked 23 out of 50 in math/science; I guess they want to beat Mississippi for being the worst.
I wonder if these Christians will want to outlaw algebra and much of the basis of math because it was developed by Muslims. How much of science do these fanatics want to deny. Why do the conservatives want a theocracy because that is the direction in which they are going. The concepts of the US constitution were based on Roman and Greek ideals of Republics neither of which had anything to do with Christianity. Tennessee wants to return to the DARK AGES.
Creation and science match. God did not create everything in six literal days. Days in the Bible can mean time periods of unknown length. So those six creative days are six creative time periods. The Bible also says that God created each animal according to it's kind. It does not say that he created them to evolve.
When I look at a beautiful sunset, or look at the starry sky's at night I see the Creator in them. When I hear a baby laugh I learn that Our creator is one that wants us to be joyful. Soon we shall all know that God exists and that he is loving , just, wise , and powerful! Man is the one who causes the problems on the earth today!
There is nothing wrong with your beliefs;
but...
until you come up with a scientific experiment so that others can attempt to DISPROVE your claims;
KEEP IT OUT OF SCHOOL
yes, Ma'am, I do believe every word you wrote....but it is NOT science. Since God invented science, He can do it anyway He wants and if micro-evolution is part of that process, so be it. The key here is that what you have written is RELIGION, not science. Religion by it's nature has no empirical evidence-it is by FAITH that we believe. Personally, I will teach my children and grandchildren about God-something very important to me and something I absolutely DO NOT WANT another person teaching them, particularly in school. Have you lost your mind?
Brenda, I applaud your beliefs and the peace you find in them.
I do have a question that I want you to consider. Thousands of years ago, the Norse had "Gods".. Odin, Thor, Loki and others. Today we call those beliefs mythology. The Greeks and Romans had their "Gods" in their respective religious beliefs... Neptune, Mercury, Aphrodite and others. Again today, we call those beliefs mythology.
In another one, two or three thousand years, isn't it possible the people inhabiting this planet.. if any, will call the religious structure of today mythology?
But you can't PROVE that GOD EXISTS! -- It is belief. It is Faith. It is not empirical. It CANNOT BE PROVED.
If creationism is going to be taught, what is the text book that will be used? Will it be the Bible? The Torah? The Koran? What about those attending school that are Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics.
"Religion" has been and continues to be the primary source of antagonism between the people on this planet we call home for most of recorded history. When will it stop?
I admit and agree that religious beliefs are very important to people. However, they are PERSONAL beliefs and should NOT be taught as science. They are matters of FAITH in the unknown.
Through science the unknown becomes the known. That is what scares the God fearing ignorant believers because then they will have to question the absurdity of their beliefs, something they hate doing. All religions are based on mythology. Religion is called religion and not science. Can't make oil and water become the same substance. Religion has nothing to do with science but science can refute religion. Tennessee is violating the US constitution by trying to ram this through the legislative process. There are a lot of people gettin dressed up in their finest clothes for the Easter celebration. Do they know that the first Easter celebration was celebrated in 2400BC. All the ideas of Christianity are adaptations from a consortium other cultures and societies. Paul never met Christ and Matt, Mark,Luke and John wrote about him long after his supposed death. In fact their is no direct evidence to substantiate Christ's existence except hearsay. Just the facts.
The Teabillies strike again!!! Hahahahahaha
it is amazing that the Tennessee legislature doesn't have better things to do with their time. Do they want to teach that the earth is the center of the universe and follow the teachings of Ptolemy? It would be nice to teach the historical facts that Christ was a fabrication, that he is mythical just like Zeus, Athena and all the other mythical creations of the societies. I can't believe we could elect someone who believes in a religion that is 185 years old. Or a person like Dick Insanitorium who would like to reinvent the Spanish Inquisition for all nonbelievers. George Bernard Shaw stated:"If the US were a SANE ASYLUM, there would be no one in it." ALL religion is about deception and a denial of facts replaced by childish beliefs and forced subordination to those facts. Religion is subliminal totalitarianism because how can one group be right about their belief and everyone else wrong. THE WORLD IS MY COUNTRY AND MY RELIGION IS TO DO GOOD. No GOD, no hocus pocus, mumble jumble or stupid belief systems.
Many of these southern states that now want to teach creationism and drop science are going to severely hurt their children in the global jobs market. Tennessee students will not be able to compete with Asian, European and other US educated kids in biology, chemistry, physics and so on. The best the kids from these states can count on in the job market is to memorize the phrase, "good afternoon, welcome to Wal-Mart"
I find it extraordinary how media advertising, churches, red state legislatures and others are doing everything under the sun to get people to start making more babies. It just doesn't seem to be working though. Low birth rates have the religious right in a panic these days and it shows when we see how diligently they are trying to control women and dumb down the men. The young people today are smarter than that and with that I have hope this country can eventually get into the 21st century before it's half over!
There is no certainty in science, only probability, so to say that nothing is absolutely true is simply to understand how science works. Science is based completely upon reason and intellect. Religion has no uncertainty since it is entirely based on faith - but faith is believing in something that you have no reason to believe. After all, if you can see god walking around, you don't have to have "faith" he exists. So religion is based upon denying reason and intellect. To combine religion with science is, literally, nonsense.
Those who ask where all of the "intermediate" fossils are simply has to look around them, or in the mirror. Every creature existing today is intermediate between what their ancestors and their descendents. They are fundamentally different from each, the degree of their difference proportional to the number of generations that seperate them.
Those who want to see examples of "evolution," simply have to look at any insect, plant or microroganism that has altered its genetics to adapt to the changes in the contemporary world. Lyme disease is a good example of a recently evolved species. So is the southern fire ant, which is fundamentally different in the US when compared to its South American ancestors. MERSA is an excellent example of a newly evolved organism.
Of course anyone can dismiss all of this with religious certainty and simply say none of it actually exists: that all of these changes are not changes at all. As I say, religion is based upon dismissing reason. You cannot appeal to reason when confronting religious arguments since religion is not based upon reason.
There are people out there that won't be happy until biology, chemistry, and other science classes all use the same book...a book that has just one page which reads "GOD DID IT! HE WANTED IT THAT WAY SO HE MADE IT THAT WAY! HOORAY GOD!"
Don't get me wrong, I've got problems with evolution and the whole "big bang" version of creation too.
Something NEITHER side can explain to me convincingly is where it all came from. In the "big bang" an infinitely small and infinitely dense speck of stuff exploded into the universe. Where did the speck come from? Everything comes from somewhere. Our understanding of existence comes from our understanding of non-existence. One has no meaning unless you understand zero. The "inteligent design" concept has the same problem. Of course an all powerful entity like God is reported to be could create our universe, but even an all powerful entity cannot create itself...the power of God doesn't exist until there is God.
So much like the question where did the speck that started the "big bang" come from there is the equally valid question where did God come from?
Neither the "big bang" supporters nor the "inteligent design" supporters can convincingly explain where their story starts. You have to accept on faith that the speck existed just like you have to accept that God existed.
The two main theories for humanity's understanding of the universe start with chapter 2 while conveniently leaving out chapter 1 where the origins of their originators are explained.
I believe that it is foolish for anyone to accept either theory as 100% fact and teaching either of them to children as the one true origin of the universe is wrong.
The mental knuckle-walkers are on the march--back to the 12th century! Ignorance prevails in Tennessee!
The difference between a scientist and a creationist is quite easy to define:
A scientist uses the scientific method:
Observation of something, the origin or existence of which is unknown or not fully understood;
Hypothesis (based on logic; past experience, and applicable data) to logically explain the phenomenon;
Develops experiments to test her hypothesis;
Makes a prediction relevant to the outcome of the experiment if her hypothesis is correct (tries to prove it false);
If the experiment fails and/or evidence is found that refutes her hypothesis, she throws out the hypothesis for one that better fits the evidence;
When unable to prove the hypothesis false, she publishes her findings in a peer-reviewed journal so that other scientists around the world develop their own tests to try to prove her hypothesis false, or validate her conclusions. After many years of independent testing finds no error in the hypothesis, it becomes a valid scientific theory with all evidence suggesting a conclusion.
A creation "scientist" begins with a conclusion--God did it. He then looks for evidence in nature to support his conclusion. When evidence is found that tends to refute his conclusion, he throws out the evidence for something else that might fit his conclusion. At no time will the conclusion be doubted.
This is not science, but the backward, science-challenged, political leadership in Tennessee refuse to believe anything that steps on their theological toes, and the kids in the state will suffer because of it.
Excellent! Two naturally-evolved thumbs up!
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