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Courtesy Gary Stein / AP, file
U.S. Marine Gary Stein, who has been criticizing Barack Obama on his Facebook page, says he has the right to his opinion like every American.
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. -- A Marine who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page has committed misconduct and should be dismissed, a military board recommended late Thursday.
The Marine Corps administrative board made the decision after a daylong hearing at Camp Pendleton for Sgt. Gary Stein.
The board also recommended that Stein be given an other-than-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.
The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy.
Vote: Should Marine be kicked out?
Stein's lawyers argued that the 9-year Marine, whose service was to end in four months, was expressing his personal views and exercising his First Amendment rights.
"We're truly surprised and disappointed but it was an honor to fight for a hero like Sgt. Stein and every other Marine's right to speak freely," Stein's defense attorney Marine Capt. James Baehr said.
Free speech groups line up to back Tea Party Marine
Stein addressed board members during Thursday's hearing, telling them he loved the Marine Corps and wanted to re-enlist, Baehr said.
During the hearing, the prosecutor, Capt. John Torresala, said Stein went as far as superimposing images of Obama's face on a poster for the movie "Jackass."
Torresala argued that Stein's behavior repeatedly violated Pentagon policy that limits the free speech rights of service members, and said he should be dismissed after ignoring warnings from his superiors about his postings.
The government submitted screen grabs of Stein's postings on one Facebook page he created called Armed Forces Tea Party, which the prosecutor said included the image of Obama on the "Jackass" movie poster. Stein also superimposed Obama's image on a poster for "The Incredibles" movie that he changed to "The Horribles," the prosecutor said.
Security clearance removed
Torresala also said anti-Obama comments by Stein that were posted on a Facebook page used by Marine meteorologists were prejudicial to good order and discipline, and could have influenced junior Marines.
Stein's security clearance was taken away and he has no future in the Marine Corps because he can't do his job without that clearance, Torresala said.
"The Marine Corps community views the command's lack of action as some kind of knock on good order and discipline," Torresala said. "Our own people are questioning why this Marine is not being held accountable."
Baehr said during the hearing that prosecutors were trying to dredge up any damaging information they could against Stein.
"There is no basis in this case," Baehr said. "Sgt. Stein has broken no law."
Baehr expressed after the hearing that he hoped that the recommendation would be rejected by the general, saying the case will go forward. "The issues are too important for this to end today," he said.
The military has had a policy since the Civil War of limiting the free speech of service members, including criticism of the commander in chief.
Pentagon directives say military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement.
Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials.
'Dangerous'
Backed by a team of lawyers and congressmen, Stein has said he is fighting for his constitutional rights and should be allowed to stay in the military. His lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union contend his views are protected by the First Amendment.
"Think about how dangerous this could be if the U.S. government can prosecute you for something you say on your private Facebook page," Baehr said.
Stein has said his opinions are his own and has put a disclaimer on his Facebook page saying so. His attorneys argued service members have a right to voice their opinions as long as they do not appear to be presenting their views as being endorsed by the military. They say the Pentagon policy is vague and military officials do not understand it.
The Marine Corps has said it decided to take administrative action after Stein declared on Facebook that he would not follow orders from Obama and later clarified that statement saying he would not follow unlawful orders.
Stein could face other-than-honorable discharge while seeing his rank reduced to lance corporal and losing his benefits. The nine-year veteran was set to finish his service in four months.
Desk job
He said he was removed from his job at the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego last month and given a desk job with no access to computers.
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., a former Marine, wrote a letter to Stein's commanding officer stating the sergeant should not face dismissal for an opinion shared by a majority of Marines.
Hunter said he was referring to Stein's statement that he would not obey unlawful orders. Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., also expressed support for Stein.
Stein said his statement about Obama was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.
In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if it involved detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.
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Leave a Comment:
I think he might have gotten off too easy...The Corps is not going to allow a E-5 to erode military disipline...He's lucky he's not doing time for insubordination....You don't have to like the CIC, but you MUST respect the office and follow lawful orders,which he didn't.Plus he was given the courtiesy of a warning,which he disreguarded. What he did not only cost him his job,but he disrespected EVERY marine who has ever served. Like I said, I think he got off easy, know plenty of marines who got worse for less. The UMCJ trumps the Constitution in this reguard,anyone who's gone thru Basic Training knows he's wrong,as being in the military you have to live with different rules or we'd have anarchy in the USMC. He dishonered himself and the Corps.
He is the one who decided to not uphold his military oath.
I wouldn't hire him. He showed bad judgement and doesn't even realize it. I think it is just as well that he leave the military since he so strongly disagrees with the Commander in Chief. I think it will affect his ability to do his job.
Ohhh, this so bad for an NCO of his level to utter such about the CinC, this may instigate juniors into thinking in the same way. He sould be unswerable.
He screwed up but at least he wasn't a weasel about anything. I think he should get a month in jail so he can think about it. he was immature and childish and needs discipline. to his credit we are living very uncertain times, military or civilian.
there is no such thing as free speech in the military except "yes sir".......R Mackner USS Caloosahatchee (AOJ-98) 1972-1976
And, Ray, that just about says it all.
I am a military guy that served his country in a war that was unconventional and my orders were to simply kill other human beings that were our enemy. The military is not a social club and it damn sure is not a democracy. You either obey your orders, focus on your job and keep your f...ing mouth shut. Your job is the defense of our country. I say hang this guy in public. Further more, for all these republican hate mongers, they have the balls to suggest that our president should be thrown out of office just because he is a black man. It has to be that reason alone, because the republicans are branded as the communist party the way I look at it. The republican party majorities in many states have inacted laws to limit women's rights, limit workers right to unionize, in Michigan formed a dictatorship to take over the townships/cities government elected officials right to govern, pushing social agendas/christian principles on the general population, protecting the rich, when they were elected to represent the commoners of this nation to make their lives better. I recommend a war on the republican party of communism. That's a fight I would take up arms against to safeguard our nation. So, in closing, I don't want to see another comment from these republican traders about the constitution. You all can just kiss my old ass.........
FYI - your statement - "I recommend a war on the republican party of communism. That's a fight I would take up arms against to safeguard our nation" could be construed as inciting insurrection against the government of the United States (regardless of the fact that you want to target just a specific element of that goverment) and is against the law and not protected under the first ammendment.
I am not taking a position against you, just pointing out an error in your thought process and presentation. Saying that you would do anything to vote them out of office is ok - saying you would take up arms against them is not.....
Type in this blog that you have intentions to cause harm or death to the President and just wait for the FBI to show up at the front door.
You have earned your first ammendment rights for serving and fighting for your country, and thank you for your service, but freedom of speech does have enumerated limitations.
The oath and the UCMJ are very specific. One is informed at their time of induction, while in basic training and throughout their military careers the specific nature of their responsiblities to their oath and the UCMJ. No grey areas, no ambiguities - "Follow the lawful orders of those appointed above you" - end of discussion. He was told to cease his activities and like so many people in our society today, he questioned that authority and then flaunted his bravado by claiming first ammendment rights that he relinquished upon his enlistment.
I question how he became a USMC NCO without knowing that this was wrong. I do however, thank him for his previously honorable service to his country, but his service is no longer required because he broke his oath and military law.
By the way, I do not believe this to be a jailable offense. A reduction to E-1, losing his career, VA benefits (if the "Dishonorable" portion of the ruling remains in place) and a DD Form 214 that will scar him for life is enough punishment.
He should be DISCHARGED. Our country is seen as weak when soldiers can openly say they will not obey an order from their commander if they disagree with it. When you enlist you do not have the same rights as other citizens. If you don't want to obey your commanders orders you do not need to be in the military so why are you now whining about you want to keep your job. Now you can sit at home on facebook and be free to make all the comment you want and not taking up space in our military having someone having to watch you and worry if you going to go off and do your own thing. Goodbye...
@kitty Please tell me how can someone intimidate the Supreme Court? Justices have no boss, they are appointed for life and answer to no-one. People are too quick to jump on bandwagons and repeat ignorance. Please think before talking.
As for this so called Marine, he had several opportunities (via lawful commands to cease and desist) before facing these charges. He made his decision to continue and now he must be accountable for it.
For those unaware, despite any security settings made, Facebook is essentially a bullhorn and there are no walls around the worldwide web. "W-O-R-L-D-W-I-D-E" there's a clue. There is no expectation of privacy on the internet, only the illusion of privacy.
listen to your news. I did and that is where I heard that the words of intimidation " remember I put you there and........" I know what you are saying but obviously someone else doesn't or those words would never have been spoken. I am not repeating ignorance, just listen to your new. As for the marine, like I said, I live with military every day!
Why are any of you discussing this? Obama's hand picked head of the Justice department has stated that Constitutional protections don't apply to military authority.
On December 31, 2011, Obama signed into law a Bill that gives the Military the authority to detain indefinitely any American citizen on American soil for any reason without having to provide that citizen with their constitutional protections.
Obama has stated that he wants to create a civilian military to deal with domestic issues.
Obama has stated many times that he wants the government to take over control of the Internet.
This story is just a preview of the direction this country is going in under Obama. After all, Obama has stated publicly that the Constitution has out lived its usefulness.
From Obama and his administrations actions, they are stripping you of your Constitutional protections right out from under your noses.
Since were punishing are own soldiers that fight for are rights to say whatever the F we want, we should also punish the MAJORITY of congress and are political system for letting the banks and stockmarket steamroll the american people and very few people were held accountable, nor saw any jail time for the bailouts and housing bubbles. You all are so very salty over one mans opinion. its time to GROW up and ACKNOWLEDGE REAL PROBLEMS, shame on you all, god will have mercy on your souls.
"Think about how dangerous this could be if the U.S. government can prosecute you for something you say on your private Facebook page," Baehr said.
Based on the Bill that Obama signed into law on December 31, 2011, the US government can use the military to do just that.
Right now, today, the military can spy on your Facebook page, detain you, give you a military trial and lock you away without having to provide you with your Constitutional protections. But if you think that is scary, they can do it on the whim of a politician or his lap dogs.
Thanks Obama
Defend the constitution with your Life but have Your own rights, Rights guaranteed to every citizen of this nation suspended is archaic and unconscionable.
Right now is the time when our constitution and Bill of Rights is being shredded right in front of our eyes even while we watch. And almost 50% of the commentary here Supports suspending this young mans freedom of speech and is ready to crucify him.
Are you also Ready to say HAIL CAESAR? If you dont know Roman History, Look it up. Rome was a Republic until the Social War. It became a Dictatorship...We are headed in that direction so long as people do not Publicly and vehemently Defend EVERY Individuals Rights under the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution.
Slamming the President is a National Sport for many, including the Media yet you would Hang this young man out to dry for having an opinion, stating his convictions and relying on his right to do so, The same Rights you enjoy because He defends them.
It is Shameful what is happening here!!
He's an Idiot. Maybe he wants to get kicked out and go out with a political bang. He must have not known what he was signing up for. Total Dishonor. If a service member is not going to like the new incoming commander in chief, then get the hell out. The military is obviously not for you. Here's a tip: Become a civilian and voice your silly opinions until your head explodes. Done.
I know what you are saying and I do know alot about the military. I live with it everyday!!! Listen to the news and you will know what was said to the court. This guy has an opinion and he spoke it out loud. I know when you join the service that the gov't owns you and every aspect of you. I will reserve the rest of my opinion about that! All I was saying is that it is all about respect and it has to start at the top and work it's way down. If it isn't at the begining then there is no end. Everybody has their own opinion!
I am all for free speech, but sometimes workplace policy can trump ones basic rights. Case in point;
My workplace has a company policy where it is prohibited to display material that could be deemed offensive. So, say a co-worker hangs a playboy centerfold calendar in his cubicle. They have the right to exercise their free speech to do this, however, according to company policy, this would be deemed an act of displaying offensive material. And they would be absolutely correct in my opinion. Now, the persons superior asks him to take the calendar down but the worker ignores the warning. Multiple times. By now, the worker should be aware that their job is in jeapordy and continuing to do so constitutes their awareness of the gravity of the issue. Simply setting your defense as your rights to free speech does not, in most cases, give you the right to trump company policy.
Most workplaces make you sign documents attesting to the fact that you are aware of company policies. It would be interesting to see if in fact something like this was done in this case. That would make it an open and shut case in my opinion.
Just ask him if, a private, criticized him for whatever decisions he had made, if he would have tolerated it!! Of course not ! In the military, a lower ranking soldier, marine, sailor, airman may not criticize or question their superiors under penalty of up to, but not limited to, a court martial. It is not a democracy and no, you do not have freedom of speech, do so and you can expect consequences. So, YES, kick the moron tea party douche bag, with less than an honorable discharge!!! Just the fact that he is on Facebook says a lot about this moron!!!LOSER!!!
Facebook media is the wrong place to go spouting off about "your boss", even if he IS a poor excuse of a leader. Here is a great idea. Let's dismiss Pres. B.O. instead of wanting to dismiss the Marine!
Sorry but having been in the military, I can attest to the fact you do surrender some of your rights. You cannot publicly disparage any NCO or Officer who is above you. To allow someone to do that would be the end of military discipline. Furthermore he was told by his superiors to remove his Facebook rants. Anyone who has ever been in the military knows you can b*tch and complain to others about those who are in charge of you but once you take it public or those above you tell you to stop, you had better listen. Sorry, no pity here for him.
Where are the marines in the United States Marine corp. You jar heads are suppose to stand -up and back up your fellow soldiers. Your Constitution of your First amendment is at stake.One of your soldiers is on trial. Remember this marines when you all pull together you have a force of thousands and be heard. A strike of duties is a force of one. So now are you going to stand up for Sgt. Gary Stein. A marine National strike is needed. Remember when all you marines joined up and signed up for the marines. Were you all told that your First amendment Freedom of speech is taken away from you when you joined the service. The answer is no. I am a former Army veteran of Viet-Nam and when i signed up to joined the army no one told me that my freedom of speech is not permitted in the branch of service.
Joe I'm sorry to be ugly to a "former Army veteran of Viet-nam", just wondering when you quit being one.... but you DO surrender A LOT of your rights when you join any branch of our military. First one being most of your rights to freedom of speech and you know it! I served in the Corp for 8 years during the Gulf War. I didn't always like what our Commander-in-Chief didn't and I did comment it a lot BUT NEVER in a public form in any manner. I knew because I remembered my oath and was told throughout boot camp and I believe you were too if not you either didn't listen or had a poor training.
You also of the generation that while even when it repel against the War still had respect for its elders and treated them with respect even when they left you in the cold and forgot about you as much as they could. My grandfather and father served with pride and would be ashamed if I ever did anything like this. But I don't remember ever hearing of any active duty soldiers in uniform blasting the president on TV during the Veit-Nam War and getting away with it. if so please post the link.
Lastly Freedom of speech aside this Marine Sergeant, and I will loosely call him that, has been in long enough and has had more than enough training to know that you DO NOT no matter your own personal opinion, you never, never, never put it on paper or in a PUBLIC forum. Because you do not disrespect your boss and not expect some form of punishment especially WHEN you have been told more than once to stop. Orders are orders and while some can be not followed due to a question of MORAL and ETHICAL standards, This in NOT one of the orders, there is nothing unethical about this other than he judgement when he choose not to obey his superiors when told to stop. His actions were wrong and that is why he is being dismissed not for Freedom of Speech violations, he knew this and choose to ignore orders. That is Why most Marines are not standing behind him. We follow orders, while we may not like the man the president is, We still respect the office of the president and FOLLOW of our superiors especially when told to stop spreading disrespect for the office.
Personally I feel for the guy BUT as a former Marine Sargeant myself, I fine his actions wrong and totally unforgivable he has dishonored and disrespected the NCO ranks and set a bad example for his fellow junior marines. His dismissal and OTH discharge is justified. While it is upsetting the the general public it is "the Way of Life" YOU ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS WHILE YOU SERVE NOT MATTER HOW SMALL THEY MAY SEEM TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I hate to say this but if you have never serve in the military you can never truly understand and military brats have only some and they know this too.
Thank you to this Marine and all the rest of our military for stepping up for the defense of this great nation. My son served proudly with the USMC. I am so thankful that he did NOT have to serve under B.O. So is he as well as many of his Marine brothers. The man who thinks he is a "cool bro" is a waste of time and tax payers money as he swaggers around trying to run the country.
For those who believe that the UCMJ limitations are wrong, would you be comfortable with a military that has the right and capability to alter national election results because they do not meet their personal view? You might want to review what has happened in countries such as Egypt, Libya, Nicaragua, Panama, etc. All of those have suffered under military control because somebody in their military decided they didn't like the legitimate ruler. Our system may not be perfect, but a lot fewer people die as a result.
Nick-in-fli, I agree with your comments 100%. A military controlled by the citizenry is the cornerstone of any true democracy. As for Joe-C and PA Gal, you are a little confused. Marines protect each other's back but we serve the Corps. This marine was told by his superiors to stop doing what he was doing and he refused to follow their orders. Now he must suffer the consequences. Marines follow orders. There was a movie with Richard Widmark as a lieutenant and Richard Boone as his CO. Richard Boone told Richard Widmark to take a squad and capture a live Jap. Richard Widmark said it would be hard to tell men who were use to killing Japs to get a live one. To this Richard Boone remarked "They are marines. I expect them to follow orders." That is what marines do.
The pentagon should be ashamed of them selves, The whole executive branches of government should be ashamed of themselves. What happen to America the land of the free and home of the brave. The best country in this world. Now its fallen apart. I wonder why? Maybe its the president of the USA that is behind this. Did we ever think of this that President Kenya Boy Obama ever since he became president everything thing is going wrong in this country. Employment, Corruption of the stock market and the banks. No concentration in Washington on the critical matter. But diversion of other new policies attacking the people of America. Start thinking everyone. The writing is on the wall not to far from now if the government doesn't attack the serious matters and stop the spending and paying down the national debt. We are on the road to disaster.
Breach of contract on enlistment and signing in the branches of service. To the pentagon and to the president of the united states. you can take this to the bank. Remember this Mr. President you are the commander in chief. You Mr. President you are not the commanding officer. The Constitution is not being held by this administration. At this time This whole executive branch of government is above the law. We the people did not elect the people in government to violate the constitution that you all took the oath to up hold the constitution. Leave this Sgt. Gary Stein alone. The pentagon policies stays at the pentagon. There is no wrong doing in expressing everyone personal opinion in any form .