It's about time. He followed a suspicious drug dealer, got jumped from behind by the 6'3" Martin, then defended himself.

You're reaching, Dave.

It is a joke. Look at the racist crap the posters are saying here. Complete and total joke. They are raising money for 'living expenses' over a minors dead body. Disgusting and pathetic.

Aaron and Dave? You might want to call the Sanford Police as it seems like you guys were actually there that night and could give them some "facts" regarding the case. What a joke YOU guys are. Fact: the guy did NOT have to follow the youth after the police told him not to do so. There was no "stand your ground"... there was an event that didn't have to happen but DID because this guy wouldn't walk away.

What defense expenses? He hasn't even been arrested for the murder.

Fact. The kid was there according to his rights.

Fact. The killer was told to not approach him.

Fact. The killer ignored the order and the unarmed kid is dead.

This is not to say the killer does not deserve a fair trial. But for that to happen he has to be charged.

My opinion does not count but according to the FACTS, this guy should be charged for murder of an unarmed kid who had every right to be there.

Perhaps someone can explain why he still has his gun and is not charged? He admitted to killing an innocent person. If some A Hole were to accost me near my home and get in my face I would likely kick the crap out of him. The difference is I too have a gun in case he wants to make me do what he wants against my will.

Lets turn it around. Any of you, say you are a white guy, are walking home and some black dude who says he is entiteled to detain you got in your face, what would you do? My point is color is not releveant. The point is some self annointed vigilanty was looking for trouble where there wasn't any and was so stupid as to think he had rights that he didn't have and was told to lay off and let the cops deal with it.

Totally agree man, I may donate to him as well

Where he will need the money is when the civil suit hits him in the face ... his best bet is a reality show!

And ... he best come up with a witness to the jumping from the back!!!!

The only fact is ... a young man is dead ... no break in ... no rape ... solely due to suspicion .............

Ray -- your comment "Your gonna need every penny, bitches, cuz your boy is guilty as sin." hasn't been proven yet. What evidence do you have that hasn't been misconstrued/tained by the media yet?

wives fan.....get your facts straight, the "police" did NOT tell him not to follow the guy, an unsworn civilian employee told him "we don't need you to do that" when asked if Zimmerman was following the guy. I would suggest that you listen to the 911 tape.

Zimmerman told the DISPATCHER (note; NOT a sworn police officer) that the police (who were on the way) should meet him at the mailboxes, and this was the place where the shooting occured.

The media, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the New Black Panthers (not to forget Spike Lee and Obama) have tried this man and already found him guilty, thereby inflaming an already touchy situation.

It's time that everyone takes a few steps back, and let the proper authorities complete their respective investigataions.

An unarmed 17 year old is dead after a 28 year old man was told NOT to follow him. If the police had arrested him, allowed a trial, followed normal due process this would not be an issue. I remember the cases you state and they were a shame - however there are so many more cases of injustices against young black men (boys) that go unreported. A young boy is dead - there is nothing racist about wanting due process to be served. If was a 17 year old white boy who had been shot by a 28 year old black man that the police had told NOT to follow would you call it racist if his parent's were asking for justice/due process.

If this case makes for an arrest and a trial, we'll find out if money is the Master of Justice.

Hey, if the New Black Panther Party had a Million Dollar Dead or Alive Bounty out on me...I'de be in hiding too....and that costs money.....

Why hasn't Eric Holder brought in those NBPP leaders for questioning....That can't be legal, can it ??

We 2nd Amendment CCWers support each other when legal expenses will be incured.....

I heard a report on the local TV station here in Palm Beach County that Sanford Police and Fire/Rescue and the State Police were gearing up in case there is any violence.....Sounds like they may be ready to announce the findings of the Special Prosecutors Investigation and are wary of what may follow.

Pippo's "facts" are pointless. Here are more pointless facts:

A 40g serving size of skittles has 160 calories.
Arizona iced tea isn't brewed/produced in Arizona. (They are a NY based company.)
Trayvon Martin was suspended from school for possessing marijuana paraphernalia.
Trayvon Martin is believed to have been in possession of jewelry that was not his legal property.

WHO CARES? Pippo, your facts don't amount to a hill of beans in a criminal case and neither do mine.

Jumpmaster must think that Zimmerman isn't entitled to a defense team outside of a bumbling state appointed attorney.

If you were facing a possible prison sentence, I doubt you'd be paying for the cheapest attorney money can buy.

Oh Really- it's difficult to use the term "racebaiters" without being a little of that persuasion one's self!

It seems to me that the run of the mill ... garden variety racists have come out on both sides!

I am missing something here - and at other comment sites. All we know about the do not follow statement is that the person on the phone told Zimmerman to not follow. Then we know there was an altercation and a death. Where do all the people get additional information that Zimmerman continued to follow after this statement to him? I have searched and found nothing to support a continue to follow action. I do note that from Zimmerman's statement that he was contacted from the back by the person he had followed, etc. If there was any expansion of the story, it might be that Zimmerman retreated when told to. There is no information to support either view.

It is time to stop using media statements as fact. There are very few facts here.

Pippo

My opinion does not count but according to the FACTS,

Have you ever stopped your "he must be guilty" thing long enough to realize that you dont really know what the facts are?

I agree that whole thing has gotten way out of hand -- from all sides of the situation. While Zimmerman might not be a racist -- any situation like this is going to have a "race/color/ and or age component to it. Both the families and especially the media (both NBC etc and FOX news) have exposed this story to press thet own agendas. Why don't the news media get down to the facts of this matter -- show the most recent photos of both these men and provide their actually person stat @ the time of the shooting (not showing Zimmerman prom photo from 10 years ago or his "mug shot from 2010 or Mr. Martin as a 13 year old). Cut the BS!! The facts of the matter is that a teenage boy was shot and killed for no good reason and the shooter (justified in his own mind or not) do go over the line and go againist 911 directions. Clearly this "stand your ground' lawin Florida has some serious problems with it -- if the shooter/killer alone can make the determination if they committed a crine or it was self-defence -- Could I go down to Fla and shoot anyone I want to because I feel threaten by them? -- (" That unarmed guy I just shot dead was bigger or stronger than me so I shot him in case he was maybe thinking of someday doing some harm to me". Now am I saying that the teenage boy was a saint? No -- none of us have any idea that in 5 years the young man was going to be 4.0 honor student @ the State College -- or be serving a 20 year term @ the State Pen, -the pont is he was unarmed and he was "accosted by a older guy with a gun" -- Maybe he felt he was fighting in his own self-defense. My personal feeling is that Zimmerman thought he was going to be a "tought guy" and intimate the younger man -- but the teenager got the better of him and "kicked his butt" -- so Zimmerman (now beaten up and embarrassed) shot the kid. He having visible wouds or not can be clearled up by the actually report of the EMT/police on the secene -- not by anything you or I say. Everyone is trying to get some mileage from this -- and it has to stop. They should have arrested Zimmerman and than sorted out the situation -- if the police than found that it was indeed justified -- they could relee him -- nstead they take his word for it and never charge him? Must be nice to have a judge for a fahter who can "pull strings' -- and now have money raised for you "expenses".

DrWho...I am sure your comments regarding racism are good points, but, you I quit reading your comment when you made yourself judge and jury when you uttered "he is at a MINIMUM guilty of Manslaughter and WILL do time for it". That statement alone helps to perpetuate the ongoing furor and trial by media.

Racism is a terrible thing, but then so are statements that perpetuate on going vigilantism.

Money can purchase freedom from justice. That has been proven time and time again. Money will NEVER cleanse your conscience. Living with just that one thought is a life sentence. Until you confess your error your Eternal life will be off limits to you.

DrWho 1.23

You stated:

"

TO long blacks and other minorities have been innocently SLAUGHTERED by angry and scared white men for no other reason then the color of their skin".

If you would research the FBI's Uniform Crime Report and another study called "The Color of Crime" you would discover that greater than 90% of your blacks and other minorities are slaughtered by other blacks and other minorities.

You would discover that black on white crime (murder, rape, robbery, assualt) is exponentially far greater than any white on black crime. Any opposite perception is due to the media's aversion towards covering black on white crime.

@Phil, you are wrong about where the shooting took place. If Zimmerman shot Trayvon at the mailboxes, how did the young man's body end up face down in somebody's back yard? Plus witnesses saw them in the yard not the street. Please stop spreading those made up "facts". Thank you

Wet Willy: But, but, what are you saying? You are saying that its blacks killing blacks responsible for the vast majority of murders of black people? Why, that's downright...well, downright...accurate. But that doesn't fuel racism, that doesn't offer any justification for the continuing race baiting by black politicans like Lee or 'reverends' like Sharpton and Al, nosir, that can't be right even though the FBI itself broke out the murders committed by race and perpetrators.

Newsflash Truth Time: FBI crime stats for 2009 racial breakdown of victims and perpetrators.

White Murder Victims: 3,518 with 2,963 White perpetrators 454 Black Perpetrators

Black Murder Victims: 2,867 with 2,604 Black perpetrators and 209 White perpetrators

Now, those numbers may be changing since recently three black males killed three unarmed convenience store clerks from Yemen and in Sanford, not too far from where the 'Justice for Trayvon' rallies were being held, two black youths viciously attacked and savagely beat a white man with a hammer. The victim is on life support and his prospects of survival are not real good.

http://ironicsurrealism.com/2012/04/03/sandford-fla-two-black-teens-ferociously-attack-white-man-with-hammer.

Seriously? Where are all of you whom are defending Zimmerman getting your information? I have read every article and listened to every interview of every single person who heard anything that night and of all of them, only his personal friends and lawyer (who weren't there) and one witness of 6 (who is a kid) defend him. I even read newspaper articles from the area, and no one who was from the area and heard or saw anything is defending him..... Where do you get your information? Pull it out of a bottle or your backside? Oh and Phil... dispatchers are sworn in and are public servants and act as such. They provide guard duty in jails and carry guns too, in fact citizens are supposed to heed their instructions when 911 is called.

The dispatcher told Zimmerman that they didn't need Zimmerman to follow Martin. Some people here interpret that as an order to stop. While there is legitimate dispute over that, it is a moot point as Zimmerman agreed to stop and to meet the police at the mailboxes.

Now, the girlfriend says that Zimmerman confronted Marvin. But, really, what is she going to say? "Trayvon saw this ***** following him at a distance like he was going to rat him out to the cops. He decided to take care of him when he turned his back"? Seriously. But we can establish that Martin knew Zimmerman was there.

The claim that Martin jumped Zimmerman and was beating him to death until Zimmerman shot once in self-defense fits the facts. It's not really plausible that Zimmerman was going to cause a confrontation. If he were going to do that, he would never have called the police. Indeed, had Zimmerman not called the police, he would probably never have been identified as the shooter.

Several people are saying that Zimmerman was racist because he only suspected black people. Hmmm... maybe. But he hasn't been going around shooting them on any regular basis. He has been trying to bring the people he suspects to the attention of the police. This one didn't want any police attention. Martin decided to take care of a ***** that was going to rat him out. If Zimmerman didn't have a gun, he would probably be dead.

Pippo said:

Perhaps someone can explain why he still has his gun and is not charged? He admitted to killing an innocent person.

Zimmerman does not still have the gun used in the shooting. See the following, relevant portion in bold.

Ofc Timothy Smith was the first officer on the scene, here is his report submitted 2/27/2012 at 3:29:

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir. in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees Lane. I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir. and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.

I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.

Shortly after securing Zimmerman Ofc. Ricardo Ayala arrived on scene. I advised Ofc. Ayala that I had not made contact with the black male subject laying on the ground. I observed Ofc. Ayala make contact with the subject and attempt to get a response, but was met with negative results. Shortly after this other officers began to arrive on scene and along with SFD Rescue 38 who began to give aid to the subject lying on the ground.

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D. Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.

The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.

Absolutely amazing is the number of people here (and in the media) who perpetuate the "do not follow" theory...In just this first thread, Susan, Pippo Schillaci, wives fan, and The Painful Truth, have all made the statement that Zimmerman went against the "orders" or "911 directions",when in-fact no such order or direction was given. The actual 911 tape recording has been released, listen to it, a civilian employee (NOT the police or any other "authority") gave an order.. The dispatcher simply said "we don't need you to do that".

ANY citizen is entirely within his or her rights to follow ANYONE that they may consider suspicious for the reason of assisting the police in locating said suspicious person, UNLESS ORDERED not to by competent authority. In this case, NO such order was given, merely a statement of "we don't need you to do that". Now had the dispatcher said "we don't WANT you to do that", it would be entirely different.

I am neither defending nor condemning Zimmerman for what was done, I am merely trying to point out that before people take sides in ANY issue, they need to have the facts straight, and not perpetuate half true or untrue statements or facts.

Again, let the proper authorities conclude their investigations, determine if a crime was committed or not, and stop all the "trial by media" nonsense and perpetuation of half truths by both sides of the issue.

Wet Willy

Even the racist clowns in congress have shown up wearing hoodies attempting to convey the notion that not everyone that wears one is a criminal. Well, that is certainly true but the undeniable fact is that the hoodie is a preferred garment of gangbangers. thugs, and criminals.

Wallstreet, lying politicians, thieving bankers, scam artists, big underground criminals and mobs wear suits. So I guess everyone that wears suits are criminals eh?

Perhaps someone can explain why he still has his gun and is not charged? He admitted to killing an innocent person.

He doesn't have his gun. The 9mm Kel-Tec pistol he was carrying and shot young Mr. Martin with was taken into custody as evidence, as is standard in virtually all shooting incidents. The gun was or will be examined forensically so as to verify that the evidence supports Mr. Zimmerman's claims.

Mr. Zimmerman was arrested. He was in handcuffs when transported to the Sanford police station for interrogation. Whenever a suspect is in handcuffs and not free to leave on his or her own will, they are under arrest.

In the case of homicides, the District Attorney decides whether to pursue prosecution of the case or not. A so-called 'justified' homicide is one where it is decided not to prosecute. It does not mean that it is legal to kill anyone, just that it will not be prosecuted given the circumstances. Usually, it has to be an open and shut case for the DA to decide to prosecute or not if there is the option of a grand jury being convened to examine the case and possibly indict the killer if the circumstances are questionable. No, it's not usually quite that simple, but it goes something like that.

The Sanford police have stated that they wanted Zimmerman charged but the DA wasn't interested, for whatever the reason, the one openly cited, or otherwise. Frankly, I don't see the Stand Your Ground law being the excuse it's being offered as. Murder is murder, and can be prosecuted regardless. If it's easier to prosecute it as a manslaughter case by asserting that it was mistaken identity or other negligence on the shooter's part, the Florida law shouldn't be all that big of an obstacle. A person is allowed to legitimately defend themselves from death or serious injury. A person is not allowed to be wrong about it, however.

It is also possible that the Sanford police felt comfortable that this was a murder, but the DA was not comfortable that there was enough evidence at this time to get a conviction. Little matter, there is NO statute of limitations for murder in most jurisdictions. Unless a killer looks like a flight risk, he can be arrested and charged at any time in the future with a murder, even if it takes a few years to be able to prove it. A person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, though, so when the time comes to do it, it needs to be done right.

So let me get this straight a kid minding his own business goes to the store and ends up dead and the kid is at fault, are you people for real, how stupid can people get, Oh, as stupid as the ones here ......

wives fan, are you able to say with a straight face that Rev. Al Sharpton let the facts prevail before organizing his rallies? Before Jackson cried racism without knowing the first thing that happened, other than a black guy was shot by a non-black guy? I wasn't there, neither were they. I'm sick of emotion running the show instead of truth and fact.

Daryl said:

Personally, now that neighborhood watch has been given the right to shoot on sight, I'll seriously consider take the same right. If ever I am confronted by a neighborhood watch, I recommend to every black person, Hispanic or anyone really just shoot first. Now that we know that these human hunters have state licenses and a gun to kill whomever they want, we have the right to defend ourselves and must use it first.

I have a neighborhood watch program in my neighborhood. And they stick to the observe and report rule.

I practice Kummooyeh---Korean sword disciplines. When we first moved into the neighborhood a year ago and took my swords out to the field beside the neighborhood church to practice, I was accosted by a cop who said he got a report about a crazy kid waving a sword.

I explained (and demonstrated) to him that it was a form of martial arts, I practiced, and I wasn't hurting anyone and the swords were not sharpened. I asked the cop if it was going to be a problem, should I not practice outside? He said that wasn't necessary, I was free to do as I liked, just to not openly threaten someone with the swords.

So a couple weeks later a different cop stops me while I'm practicing and says he got a call from the neighborhood watch about a crazy kid waving a sword. Again, i explained the situation and demoed the forms. He told me the same thing; it's fine, just don't threaten anyone.

Three weeks later I see someone standing off to the side of the field watching me practice and he's on his cellphone. I sheathed my sword and waited, thinking it's another cop and I have to explain again. This time it was the neighborhood watch captain who had been hearing reports from the other volunteers about a crazy person (hey, at least they didn't call me a kid this time, I'm freakin' 35!) waving a sword, and then he saw me but this time when he called 911 the dispatcher told him it's already been investigated, I was harmless and if he would wait they would send an officer out to make an official introduction.

So I'm standing there watching him, he stands there watching me, neither one of us has the guts to approach each other. My sword still sheathed but I can draw it in a moment if I have to, and I don’t know if he was packing (conceal isn’t allowed in my state) but he apparently wasn’t coming anywhere near my katana. Then a cop drives up, talks him, walks over to me, then waves the guy over and introduces me to the neighborhood watch captain. So I explain, for the third time, who I am and what I'm doing and since then I have had no further trouble with either the neighborhood watch, or the police, although they did tell me if I have sharpened swords leave them at home (my practice weapons are not sharpened).

That, in my opinion, is how a neighborhood watch is SUPPOSED to be run! Watch, observe, report, and let the cops deal with issues!

@Realistic woman....I would suggest that you also check your "facts", Trayvon Martin was not "in someones backyard". If you search, you will find pictures of the area online, it is a common grassy area with a walk down the center, just like the common area found in so many townhouse developments, not a backyard.

Filter trough all the pictures, and you will find a picture taken for a distance, that shows the mailboxes.

Phil, you may be correct in saying that zimmerman did not have to follow the recommendation of the 911 dispatcher. So we agree zimmerman was pursuing him, not as a law enforcement official, but as a citizen. Now by the law protecting zimmerman at this point, does martin not have the same right to defend himself against someone who is not law enforcement that is following him? Can he not stand his ground?

First we say martin followed zimmerman back and attacked him, was zimmerman not persuing him first? So by the stand your ground law, zimmerman initiated the incident by following him. Whether it was legal or not to follow the dispachers suggestion is mute as zimmerman pursued first, and martin, if alive could claim 'stand your ground'.

Remember the law protecting zimmerman right now, "A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first."

If martin felt threatened, he could attack zimmerman if he wanted by law. The law protecting zimmerman is the law that should incriminate him.

Stand Your ground is what is on trial, and how quickly it can and has been abused to justify MURDER

Al la person has to do now is pick a fight with a suspect when there are no witnesses around, take a couple of licks pull out a gun shoot the person that they instigated a fight with and then claim self defense.. The law would protect you.

Zimmerman should of made the call and left it at that.. But he followed an unarmed 17 year old kid while packing a gun...

@Daryl, that may be the case, but though Zimmerman has been identified as the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch, does that mean as a private citizen in a state where it is allowed, he is not able to carry a firearm when he is not on duty as the neighborhood watch?

There is not one single mention in the 911 tapes that Zimmerman identified himself as being the ON DUTY neighborhood watch, so it may just happen that he was driving somewhere as a private citizen when he came across Martin.

Don't drink the media kool-aid and assume that he was on duty and packing.

Rick:

No, you haven't quite got that straight. A young man sees someone following him at a distance, decides he doesn't like "snitches" and decides to beat the ***** to death. Then it turns out the guy had a gun and the young man ends up dead. Had he "minded his own business," he would have gotten to the place at which he was staying.

Mind like a steel trap...nothing gets in, nothing gets out.

THe mind of a liberal.

@upright1

I have read every article and listened to every interview of every single person who heard anything that night

Oh...well, if that's the case then lets just forget about an actual investigation carried out by professionals or a silly trial by jury...We'll just let you decide his fate and be done with it. So what's your verdict oh wise one?

Guilty or Innocent, this guy deserves the due process that is the backbone of our legal system. All you you passing judgement, one way or the other, should keep your opinions to yourself until the process is complete. Then you can rant and rave to your hearts content. No one should be tried in the court of public opinion because far too many of those opinions come from complete idiots.

And the spinning and baiting begins.

While I find the website tacky (what, his old man can't spare the $ to defend his son?!), he is legally entitled to it. But what is disturbing is already is the smearing of Travlan Martin. He wasn't a perfect kid, but a drug dealer? A criminal? That's as bad, if not worse, than some of the epithets thrown Mr. Zimmerman's way.

The fact is Zimmerman shot an unarmed kid under dubious circumstances...and all we really have is his version of the events. There are a multitude of scenarios that could have played out, but consider this...what if you were accosted by someone, and had to chose to either fight or flee, and got shot? Had Martin flat out ran, what was to stop Zimmerman from shooting him in the back? If he stood his ground and fought back against an aggressor, what is to stop Zimmerman from shooting him to save himself from a well-deserved beating? Either way, the fact is that Martin had rights too, and instead of a firearm...all he had was skittles and tea.

If Zimmerman is so innocent, then an investigation and trial will bear that out. But already the Zimmerman camp is using a full court press to paint Martin as Willie Horton, and Zimmerman as the second coming of Bernie Goetz. The reality of that argument couldn't be further from the truth...

acticsoft, point taken, BUT witnesses have stated that Martin attacked Zimmerman FROM BEHIND, that in its-self would most likely nullify any stand your ground claim, and would entitle Zimmerman to use force as deemed necessary.

Again, I am not defending nor condemning Zimmerman for his actions, I would rather wait for the findings of all investigations to be published, and make an INFORMED decision as to guilt or innocence, not resort to trial by media.

ALL of us need to let the proper authorities conclude their respective investigations, and either file charges against Zimmerman and let the courts publish the findings or not file charges and make the results of the investigations public, with an explanation of their findings.

Zimmerman is a victim of a situation of his own making and the racist "f'n coon" excited utterance he spewed just before he began to chase Trayvon down justifies all of the outrage people feel about this murder.

If he hadn't "profiled" Trayvon and if he had just listened to the reasonable and responsible suggestion of the dispatcher, Trayvon would be alive today but no, he just couldn't let another one get away.

P.S. and Phil, there are no witnesses to the onset of the fight only conflicting witness statements regarding who was on top. Not one of these witnesses has claimed they saw who threw the first punch.

Sarah, try reading other news outlets than the race baiting MSNBC... How did he profile Tray? How is he a racist? I believe tray approached him...

By the way, Sarah, did you even read the article?

Arctic:

No, Martin still attacked first. Zimmerman can follow at a distance all he wants. For that matter, Martin could follow at a distance all he wanted. But Martin didn't follow at a distance. When Zimmerman wasn't looking, he got real close and physically attacked.

Yuda:

I think the scenario you described would be rather difficult to pull off. But let's grant it for the sake of the argument. It requires staging a situation that looks just like self-defense. Now, personally, I think that it is so important not to ruin the life of someone actually engaged in self-defense, that it should be the burden of the prosecution to show that it was not the case. Here, the prosecution cannot meet such a burden.

There are THREE people who know the facts. One was shot to death so can't talk (how convenient isn't it), one will give his side. The third? God only knows AND HE WON'T TELL.

It's funny that there are "witnesses" coming out of the woodwork-- and they probably are Zimmerman's friends and naturally would lie for him. Even if they don't know a dam thing about the incident. Where were the "witnesses" the night of the incident? A bunch of "witnesses" that are blind as bats!

upright1, maybe in your state 911 dispatchers are sworn, provide jail security and carry firearms, but not in Florida.

Under Florida Statutes, 911 Public Safety Telecommunicators are employed by the Department of Health, are NOT sworn officers of the law, and are only required to take either the 232 hour certification course developed by the Department of Education or it's equivalent.

Sanders:

Had Martin flat out ran, what was to stop Zimmerman from shooting him in the back?

Well, if Zimmerman had shot someone who was actively running away, he wouldn't have a viable self-defense claim. He would probably have had to shoot multiple times and he would have no injuries. But, if Martin were actually afraid someone was trying to kill him, he would probably have called 911 himself. It makes sense that whoever felt threatened would want to get the police there.

Those of you who are casting blame on the two involved (Martin and Zimmerman) are missing the big picture.

Zimmerman and Martin may, or may not have had an altercation. They may have fought. A lot of people have a fight now and again.

The real evil here is the concept of the "Shoot First Ask Later" law, called by gun fans "Stand your ground".

The premise in law of cause and effect, action and result, has always been based on a crime being committed. The evidence does not indicate that Martin committed any crime except self defense. The evidence does show that, lacking any immediate risk to anyone, Zimmerman pulled a concealed gun and murdered Martin.

This tragedy is not caused by the two men who had the fight, it was the combination of lax rules for concealed weapon and this "Shoot First Ask Later" law.

These awful laws caused this tragedy. The laws are the problem. I do not think that Zimmerman was looking to kill anyone. The escalation to lethal force was because Zimmerman's head was full of gun advocate rhetoric about using a gun to defend one's life.

Those who advocate easy access to guns, allowing concealed weapons, and this terrible premise of Shoot First Ask LAter" are the true criminals.

All guns should be outlawed. They no longer are sufficient to act as a deterrent to tyranny and one has only to look at this case to understand that "Well-regulated militia" provisions should not be expanded to include any yokel who can pass a background check.

The Second Amendment no longer serves any purpose but to enrich the gun sellers and the criminals who use them. Repeal this "Stand the Ground" law, repeal concealed carry (except for trained police, national guard or military personnel) and start reducing the number of weapons available to criminals.

Perhaps racism was at play here, but even it it was not, the law that allowed Zimmerman to have a gun was the real cause of this tragedy.

DrWho-2096937 Really, are you serious? So you say minorities are tired of being slaughtered by the white man. That is one of the most baseless, opinionated falsehoods I've read in a while. What a crook of crap. Do some research on crime statistics before you fabricate you hate speech.

Had Martin flat out ran, what was to stop Zimmerman from shooting him in the back? If he stood his ground and fought back against an aggressor, what is to stop Zimmerman from shooting him to save himself from a well-deserved beating?

The law. In either case.

Stand Your Ground is not a licence to kill anyone suspicious or even threatening..It is worded as an act of self defense of last resort when you are being assaulted or attacked and fear severe injury or death at the hands of the attacker.. So if someone is hitting you or shooting at you or lunging at you with a knife or throwing bricks at you and you are cornered or disabled from escaping you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force.. This law also if enacted by George will shield him from manslaughter charges and any civil law suits.. So unless they can prove a history of racial bias and hostility to warrant the charge of hate crime or prove 1st or 2nd degree murder he will never be charged.. So unless you racially biased haters can produce some evidence from thin air he is not chargeable.. This has been the status thus far and it sure seems they can't get there with the evidence.. Even if he uttered a racial slur at the time of the altercation it can't be charged as a hate crime without a verifiable history of it.. I also see that all 5 of his 911 calls concerning suspicious people were reviewed and come to find out every single time he was asked the race of the individual by the police dispatcher.. He was not on watch patrol he was returning home from somewhere when he saw Trayvon so the don't carry a weapon when patrolling rule is a mute point..

Saying Trayvon felt like he was being stalked gives him the right to attack is total ignorance of the law.. Even if George was screaming profanity at him that still would not give him the right to commit aggravated assault in self defense unless you are on planet Sharpton.. I imagine Georges lawyers will file law suits for defamation of character against a number of news media companies and Al Sharpton, Jessey Jackson, New Black Panthers, the Martin Family and so on.. I hope George writes a book, I would buy it.. If asked the question {would you want George as a neighbor or doing neighborhood watch where I lived} I would answer without hesitation HELL YES!!!!

Aaron: ..and you've already decided he's innocent. ("unjustly incur") Let's let the court decide, should there be a trial. In my opinion, this SHOULD go to trial and I hope it does.

If Martin is found innocent, then we might consider contributing to his expenses. If he's found guilty, we might consider contributing to Martin's family's expenses.

"Your gonna need every penny, bitches, cuz your boy is guilty as sin."

tyler missed this one. :)

Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

I wouldn't contribute a cent to it. He should have stayed in his car and waited for the police, period. Observe and report is all community watch is supposed to do. He caused an unnecessary confrontation that ended badly for both of them. He made his bed, he can sleep in it. His legal defense is not a worthy cause.

Wet Willy:

Well, that is certainly true but the undeniable fact is that the hoodie is a preferred garment of gangbangers. thugs, and criminals.

And it's certainly true but the undeniable fact is that short skirts, revealing tops, and make-up is the preferred look of prostitutes. What did your daughter wear to school today?

Roadrunner, Zimmerman's comments during the 911 call are evidence of his racial bias. "Suspicious" and "Up to no good" (walking is up to no good?), "On drugs or something" (how did he arrive at that conclusion?), "These fu*king coons" (perfect example of his racist attitude). Also, every suspicious person call that he phoned in was of "suspicious" black people. If he had seen an elderly white man walking home that night then he would not have looked twice.

During the class I took for my carry permit we were instructed that you cannot pursue a perceived threat and then claim self defense. Zimmerman did in fact pursue a perceived threat. His claim of being attacked from behind after breaking pursuit is irrelevant. He pursued a perceived threat. Stand your ground law should not apply.

Also, it's "moot" point not "mute".

Sic-n-tired:

The evidence does not indicate that Martin committed any crime except self defense.

No, the evidence shows that Martin decided to beat Zimmerman to death. Martin was not defending himself. He was attacking.

The evidence does show that, lacking any immediate risk to anyone, Zimmerman pulled a concealed gun and murdered Martin.

The fact that even the police admit to Zimmerman's injuries falsifies this claim. Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense because of the immediate risk to his own person. If he didn't have that gun, he would probably be dead. But, maybe you consider it a "well-deserved" beat-to-death.

All guns should be outlawed. They no longer are sufficient to act as a deterrent to tyranny

They may not be sufficient. But they are necessary. You have stated that you need guns and more to act as a deterrent to tyranny. And yet you wish to outlaw guns. I take it, then, that you desire tyrrany?

The Second Amendment will always be necessary as long as any part of the government (and that includes the military) is armed. I don't see that condition changing any time soon.

Ron:

Zimmerman followed at a distance. That is not the same as pursuing. He, as near as can be determined wanted to identify the he thought was suspicious to the police. His claim of being attacked from behind is a legitimate self-defense claim. Perhaps you would like to show the claim to be false?

Dead man cant tell no stories...look, this case leaves many questions unanswered and people are suppose to go by a persons word? If a cop shot any person there would be an investigation. Another citizen shot an unarmed person and was told to not follow him and there should be no investigation? Thats just crazy and will send a big message to all those itchy trigger fingered gun totin people that dont get satisfaction at the regular shooting range. If all that failed to make you agree there should be at least an investigation then how about if your child got gunned down under the same circumstances? would you be saying its all cut and dry like this was? I REALLY DOUBT IT...I doubt if the african americans riot over this and people who think they will riot are having the same mentality as Zimmerman did when he followed a black man. Seems to be the same kinda profiling assumiong they will riot over this...HMNN. Get real people, investigation warranted at the very least even if race didnt play a role...common sense..the police botched this thing bigtime also. I would be outraged and so would anyone else who lost a son or daughter this way.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=autistic%20man%20killed%20in%20massachusetts&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.whdh.com%2Fnews%2Fmain%2Flocal%2Fworcester-area%2F&ei=Znh_T9WhJanL0QGU3cDUBw&usg=AFQjCNHxsf2FDT7p3VjDyAJAzIN7D2zt0w

WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE? A WHITE MAN, WHO WAS AUTISTIC WAS JUST KILLED BY 2 BLACK PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS! THE LIBERALS ARE COMING! THE LIBERALS ARE COMING SAID PAUL REVERE! BUT THEY ARE NOT COMING AT ALL...WHERE ARE REVERENDS AL AND JESSE? WHERE IS OBAMA,SPIKE, AND MSDNC? COME ON THIS HAS TO BE A HATE CRIME RIGHT? COME ON I DEMAND JUSTICE!

You don't like the website idea? Too tacky? How about he files a trademark for "Justice for George" or "I am George Zimmerman" and peddles T-shirts? Or maybe "The New Black Panthers offered a $1,000,000 and all I got was this lousey T-shirt".

Sic-n-tired

Those who advocate easy access to guns, allowing concealed weapons, and this terrible premise of Shoot First Ask LAter" are the true criminals.

All guns should be outlawed. They no longer are sufficient to act as a deterrent to tyranny and one has only to look at this case to understand that "Well-regulated militia" provisions should not be expanded to include any yokel who can pass a background check.

The Second Amendment no longer serves any purpose but to enrich the gun sellers and the criminals who use them. Repeal this "Stand the Ground" law, repeal concealed carry (except for trained police, national guard or military personnel) and start reducing the number of weapons available to criminals

So...... you saying that if an intruder invades your home, we shouldn't use guns eh? We should just use bats or a knife instead? I guess the the 18 yr old widower on New Years Eve shouldn't have own guns eh?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/04/9948522-911-to-teen-mom-who-killed-intruder-protect-your-baby

Sarah McKinley was home with her 3-month-old son on New Year's Eve in Blanchard, Okla., when Justin Martin, 24, broke in with a large hunting knife, NBC affiliate KFOR-TV reported. McKinley told KFOR that Martin had come by a week before, claiming to be a neighbor, but she didn't let him in.

What Would Reagan Do?

Be realistic buddy. In 2005, there were 16,692 murders in the United States. You honestly believe that the population should rally behind every single murder that happens everyday? It was about 1-2 weeks after the murder before the news coverage and rest of the US took hold of it. If the parents haven't complained and spread the word to other news outlets, this murder would have swept under the rug.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm

oreda, based off of what it known Zimmerman is innocent...if that changes with time, so be it. However I will automatically assume his innocence (something about "innocent until proven guilty". heard that somewhere....), especially when the likes of Rev. Al and Jesse Jackson come to town, spewing their unproven, media tailored accusations that fit their agenda.

Just like that episode of South Park where Uncle Jimbo is teaching the new Colorado hunting law to Stan. All you have to say is, "It's coming right for us! Then you can shoot."

Dead men tell no tales. I do not believe Zimmerman stopped pursuing Martin based on the testimony of Martin's girlfriend. Based upon her testimony it appears that Zimmerman walked up on Martin then Martin asks, "Why are you following me?" She then states she heard someone say, "What are you doing here".Then the phone went silent. That does not support Zimmerman's sucker punched from behind claim.

Does anyone care to address and defend Zimmerman's statements to 911? Can anyone possibly defend how Zimmerman came to the conclusion that Trayvon was "up to no good" or "on drugs or something". Care to defend why he called 911 five times to report suspicious person(s) and they all just happened to be black? He is a racist and pursued Trayvon with a hate filled racist agenda. He wanted to stop "these a$$holes" who "always get away". Which a$$holes? Black a$$holes.

Hopefully the FBI does the right thing and charges this racist so that a grand jury and possibly a seated jury can make a decision about what happened instead of a bunch of cops.

Aaron, would that be the same "innocent until proven guilty" that Zimmerman did not give to Trayvon? Zimmerman saw this kid's black skin and came to the conclusion that he was up to no good and on drugs or something. I'll give Zimmerman the same benefit of a doubt as he gave the kid he pursued and murdered. I will accept the word of Trayvon's girlfriend over Zimmerman's.

Ron, are you for real? You know Mr. Zimmerman that well? I fear people like you, jumping to conclusions, worse yet, making assertions based on nothing but your preconceived notions of racism. You're no better than a neo-Nazi because you're just as unfair.

Aaron, apparently you refuse to see the racial bias in Zimmerman's 911 call. It is blatant racism. Undeniable. No conjecture on my part.

"Suspicious" What was suspicious about Trayvon walking home at night? Based on the fact that Zimmerman's 5 previous 911 suspicious person(s) calls were all concerning blacks, it is reasonable to believe that Trayvon being black aroused Zimmerman's suspicion.

"On drugs or something". Did he have some futuristic laser drug detector to arrive at that conclusion?

Chasing after this kid he states, "these a$$holes always get away". Which a$$holes? I ask you, based on the context of the 911 call.

"These fu%king coons". Was that statement from Zimmerman not racist enough for you?

You fear people like me jumping to conclusions? Zimmerman jumped to conclusions and now an innocent kid is dead. Where is your fear of people like Zimmerman? How can you defend his statements and actions?

Ron, play catch-up with the info. They've already debunked the 911 call's "racist comments". Above all else, I, you, Rev. Al and Jesse weren't there that night! If people like you ran the show, no black guy would ever be called "suspicious" because you don't want to appear racist. Are you not aware of crime statistics in this country? Like it or not, the proportion of black-on-white crime is staggering in comparison to white-on-black crime. Facts are facts, hate to break it to you. I don't know what Martin was doing that made Zimmerman declare him "suspicious", fact is neither do you. Innocent until proven guilty, unless of course your skin color is a lighter shade than the other guy's.

Dave...racist profiler much? Where in the name of GOD did you get "drug dealer" from? I'll pray his parents sue any moron out there tossing around such baseless accusations for slander.

How in the hell could Zimmerman's statements be debunked? Nobody has debunked his statements. They can't be debunked. There was no voice over editing. "These fu%king coons", that was not inserted into the 911 call by somebody else. "On drugs or something", that was not inserted into the call by somebody else. "Up to no good", that was not inserted into the call by somebody else. Aaron, play catch up with reality.

If people like you ran the show, no black guy would ever be called "suspicious" because you don't want to appear racist. Are you not aware of crime statistics in this country? Like it or not, the proportion of black-on-white crime is staggering in comparison to white-on-black crime.

Or, actually, keep your head in the sand so that all stays well in your world where all blacks are suspicious because of statistics. No wonder you support Zimmerman. You appear to be just like him.

I don't know what Martin was doing that made Zimmerman declare him "suspicious", fact is neither do you. Innocent until proven guilty...

If you, Zimmerman, the police and all of Zimmerman's supporters have their way then there will never be an innocent until proven guilty becasue you don't think he should 1) be charged with a crime; 2) allow a jury to decide if he is telling the truth; 3) offer up any reasons as to why he made all of the claims about Trayvon that he did on the 911 call.

He said, "These f*cking punks." It's crystal clear to me that he said "punks." I am astounded that there is any debate over this part of the story.

The problem is that he said it while play-acting his Captain Save-the-neighborhood role. He makes Barney Fife look competent.

A fund for him?! I hope he buys a clue.

Hey zimmerman, Karma is a b1tch and will come back to bite you in the rear. Ask Jeroen van der Sloot from Aruba who is now a favorite in a Peru cell. You can not fool all of the people all of the time. Yours is coming, guaranteed, as life is a circle.

I have NEVER in my life seen such an idiotic situation. The zimmerman 'self ascribed neighborhood hero' goes after a teenager with a 9mm, forcing Trayvon to either fight or flight and this really scary and crazy 'shoot first and ask questions later' protects a psycho wannabe neighborhood play cop. Who put Trayvon in this situation in the first place. Which came first, the chicken or the egg. What if Trayvon was standing HIS GROUND, heroically, without weapons. Man, something is really wrong with this country and with these kinds of laws. The law gives this killer immunity from being arrested.

There was some articles circulating that zimmerman has a retired judge in the family. Can anybody expand on this. Never mind. Googled it and found out the judge is his father. We have another Jeroen van der Sloot from Aruba moment. His father tried to protect him as well and had a heart attack on a tennis court and died. Karma is a b!tch.

Ron B -CHECK YOUR "FACTS"

How in the hell could Zimmerman's statements be debunked? Nobody has debunked his statements. They can't be debunked. There was no voice over editing. "These fu%king coons", that was not inserted into the 911 call by somebody else.

You do know that CNN re-enhanced that clip again and even they admit that Zimmerman did not say coon, look it up, but this is exactly what the lefts liberals expected to happen, the truth comes out a week later but it doesn't matter because everyone has made up there minds and most likely doesn't care about the truth.

I have a question though, if this is so one sided in everyone's minds that Zimmerman was completely wrong and Trayvon was completely innocent then explain this.

1. It was 3 weeks after the shooting before his parents went public, at that point they already had the lawyer, activist and some politicians on board.

2. If Trayvon was such a good kid then why close out his twitter page, Facebook and try and seal his school records. Try and remove all current photos of him from public access, they missed the fact that several local media outlets already had all of that, and ONLY put out 4-5 year old photos of him along side a 5 year old pic of Zimmerman.

3. Why when asked on National TV did his parents and their lawyer LIE, again on National TV about Trayvon's suspension from school, WHY LIE, they have done this several times, and when the truth came out all they had to say was that they were just trying to destroy his repetition, NO he did that himself and they lied about it which only made it worse. Why not be upfront and honest from the very start, so he wasn't perfect OK who is, but covering it up and LYING about it makes it so much worse.

4. When this all started it was portrayed by his parents, their lawyers, the civil rights activist and some local state and federal politicians as a white/black race crime. Even now in this very story they continue to refer to Zimmerman as a bi-racial Latino, or half white half Hispanic, the very same news agencies that have never ever called Obama half white half black or bi-racial black.

5. To inflame the masses 3 different new agencies have put out stories that they themselves have had to admit were wrong, 1. NBC's 911 "editing "MISTAKE"" 2. CNN's enhanced audio of 911 call for racial slur, only to re-re-enhance it only to say that he 100% definitely did not say the slur 3. ABC releases police station video, big out rage from everyone, family, Lawyers, Activist even politicians saying that they are 100% sure Zimmerman has no injuries, only to have video enhanced and oops now injuries are clearly there.

Here is the common denominator in all of these, it was at least one week after the first release before they went back to "correct" their "MISTAKE", but by then everyone had made up their minds. There are people even now on this very thread that will say that Zimmerman had no head injuries even after watching the updated video. Zimmerman has a REAL good case against at least NBC and their editor who did it, hope he sues their pants off.

6. Where is outrage for NBPP reward offer for Zimmerman dead or alive, last time I checked that was called solicitation of murder for hire and that is illegal, Mr. Holder it is a FEDERAL CRIME, DO SOMETHING. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Solicitation+of+murder

With so much of Martins supporters and their proof being manufactured and proven wrong HOW CAN ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND STILL BELIEVE THEM. (supporters- parents, their lawyers, activist, liberal news agencies NBC ABC CNN MSNBC and politicians)

What is even more obvious is they already know Zimmerman is innocent, but they don't care and continue with the lies.

If Trayvon was such a good kid then why close out his twitter page, Facebook and try and seal his school records.

Irrelevant. (Just as Zimmerman's violent history is irrelevant to me) I don't care about any trouble he may or may not have been in. He was not breaking any laws that night. He was walking home minding his own business. Zimmerman had no knowledge of any incidents from Trayvon's past. Or, do you think he was wearing a sign on his shirt that read "I've been in trouble before so you better keep an eye on me"?

Why when asked on National TV did his parents and their lawyer LIE, again on National TV about Trayvon's suspension from school

I have no knowledge of this. I would say, however, that a suspension from school is nothing. I was suspended from school a couple of times and have never been arrested or committed any crimes. Lying about his suspension does not make it so much worse because, as I stated, a suspension is nothing.

There are people even now on this very thread that will say that Zimmerman had no head injuries

I for one have never stated that Zimmerman was not injured. My whole point has ever been that Zimmerman initiated the conflict. As I've stated before, during the carry permit class I took we were told that you cannot pursue a perceived threat and then claim self defense if you shoot the person. Zimmerman perceived Trayvon to be a threat, as evidenced by his calling 911, and he then left his vehicle and pursued Trayvon. That should negate any Stand Your Ground defense.

CNN's enhanced audio of 911 call for racial slur, only to re-re-enhance it only to say that he 100% definitely did not say the slur

I listened to the enhanced audio and it still sounds like "these fu%king coons". The CNN reporter did not say "100% definitely not". He said it sounds less like the slur. The problem I have with the enhanced audio is that while they are trying to filter out ambient noise they are subtly altering what Zimmerman says. This time around the reporter says he thinks the slur sounds like "cold". "These fu%king cold" makes no sense.

Re-read the bold portion from the third paragraph. Can you find any way to negate this? If Zimmerman had not left his vehicle and chased Trayvon then he would not have been "forced" to shoot Trayvon.

Ron B

you cannot pursue a perceived threat and then claim self defense if you shoot the person.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-in-stand.html

Actually you can, and unless Zimmerman was the first to become physical in the confrontation then he can still claim self defense. Unless someone creatable comes forward who saw the start of the physical part and says that Zimmerman "struck" first then he is covered by the law. Not sure what state you got your permit in it may be different there, but Zimmerman is covered and has "case" law on his side. Now if he did strike first then ya he should be arrested, but just following Martin is not a reason for Martin to physically attack Zimmerman regardless of what anyone things.

I listened to the enhanced audio and it still sounds like "these fu%king coons".

The CNN reporter did not say "100%

One of the first reports that came out on the re-re-enhanced 911 tape two weeks after it was first released by CNN did have a report that said he was 100% sure it wasn't coon, now that report has sense been "edited" but go figure, I call BS on most reporters in general especially one that says 100% sure on anything. But this one raises serious doubt about the whole racial slur/racism part of this case.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/04/george-zimmermans-911-call-audio-enhanced/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL84rHwIuKg&feature=player_embedded

Lying about his suspension does not make it so much worse because, as I stated, a suspension is nothing.

My point in all of this is they should have been straight and up front with all of this instead of trying to hide it and then lying about it, and they did lie about it several times, and I'm sure if you have followed this story at all you have heard them say things that later proved to be false, you may not want to acknowledge that but does go to show a dishonest side to the Martin camp. One of their Lie-oryas ("MADEA")even has has it in her name NataLIE Jackson, just being funny don't flame me for that.

They tried to paint this as "This big white guy hunted down this little black kid and ambushed him and shot him for no reason, look NBC & CNN have 911 audio to prove racism, ABC has video showing no injuries to Zimmerman proving there version of the events of that night.

Racist White Guy- no Hispanic, proof of racism manufactured by NBC (who Zimm should sue the pants off)

Just look at the pictures that show how much different in size and appearance they were - No family only released old photos of Trayvon and removed everything from the internet that they could to keep up this facade, and they continue to do this even though current photos of both of them are out, WHY??????

Bigger Guy by 100 lb. - no Zimmerman 5" shorter and only 10 lb. heaver than Trayvon

Zimmerman hunted him down and shot him for no reason - no Trayvon was attacking him and was on top of him when Zimmerman shot him in self defense, unless Zimmerman physically struck first. One eye witness just feet away said Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman was calling for help.

Look No Injuries - no tape shows injuries both to back of head and possibly to his nose, Martin's family and supporters have dismissed the video, GO FIGURE!!!!!!!

Why did all of these LIBERAL media outlets wait so long to correct their "mistakes", the same night the video came out people with nothing more at their disposal than a home computer were able to enhance the tape, you can't tell me it took two weeks for a major news network to come up with a way in enhance it, I call Major BULL

An enhanced copy of a surveillance video showing him in police custody after the shooting appears to show a bump, mark or injury on his head. Martin's family and supporters have dismissed the video.

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/30857990/detail.html#ixzz1rZGBpfFm

When the grainy copy first came out they couldn't wait to get on TV to say SEE SEE NO INJURIES THIS PROVES OUR CASE, this was done by all of them, his parents, the lawyers, AL & Jessie, even politicians got in on it, ALL RECORDED you can even find the clip here on msnbc. Now it's "that don't don't prove nothing" - this from Martins parents lawyer also on tape, WHY IS THAT???????

Re-read the bold portion from the third paragraph. Can you find any way to negate this? If Zimmerman had not left his vehicle and chased Trayvon then he would not have been "forced" to shoot Trayvon. I agree that it was not the best course of action but that doesn't make it a crime.

Yes though not the brightest thing to do it was not illegal for Zimmerman to follow Martin or go looking for him, I know I know "cops told him not to", wrong there is a huge difference between " We don't need you to do that" and a lawfully ordered "I order you not to follow him". Not all dispatchers are sworn law enforcement officers, in some areas they are but not in all cases depends on the area.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF EVEN IF THEY WERE BECAUSE HE DID NOT ORDER HIM NOT TO FOLLOW, HE SAID "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT", WHICH IS NOT A DIRECT ORDER PERIOD!!!!!!!!

And if Trayvon had not been on top of him attacking him then Zimmerman wouldn't have been "Forced" to protect his own life and shot Martin.

YOUR TURN!!!!!!!!!!!

Garcia “was well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property . . . the defendant had no duty to retreat and could lawfully pursue a fleeing felon who has stolen his property.”

Big difference between chasing someone who stole your property and chasing someone who's only crime was being black in Zimmerman's neighborhood.

And if Trayvon had not been on top of him attacking him then Zimmerman wouldn't have been "Forced" to protect his own life and shot Martin.

You say "attacking him" and I say "defending himself from a predator". If Zimmerman had not played wanna-be cop by pursuing someone for being black then Trayvon would be alive. This is indisputable. Zimmerman's actions are what led to the shooting.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-And if Trayvon had not been on top of him attacking him then Zimmerman wouldn't have been "Forced" to protect his own Martin.in-stand.html#storylink=cpy

No kidding. But while I'm all for allowing Zimmerman his rights under law, I don't think I'm ready to give him any money.

No kidding. But while I'm all for allowing Zimmerman his rights under law, I don't think I'm ready to give him any money.

Nope, I won't be giving him a cent either.

It's the lawyers looking for a way to raise money for their fees. Zimmerman has not been charged with anything, why should a legal defense fund be necessary?

In Florida when you shoot somebody and claim self-defense, you go free. That's the issue.

I agree with you Ruken. If the Florida "justice system" would do its job, none of this trial-by-media would be necessary. Every day that goes by, this travesty just compounds itself.

So true Ruken. Trial by media is really getting tiresome, they have ot get in a court and lets the facts tell the story. A jury needs to decide this not public opinion

And the suckers will break out their cash and give money to a "legal defense fund" for a man that so far, has nothing to defend. I guess Joe Oliver didn't come as cheap as they thought he would. But then again, the zimmermans need help paying their "living expenses". Gee, last time I checked there was A Zimmerman involved in this not THE Zimmermans.

Shellie, if the New Black Panthers put a hit out on you... would you be able to pay your living expenses?

"People need to let the police / feds do their work. I'm sick of this trial by media bullsh*t."

What part of all this dont you GET????? If not for the FAMILY crusading THROUGH social MEDIA.... this case would NEVER HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED!!!!!! The POLICE, were judge and Jury on the scene, and let him GO, while barely collecting evidence.... the lead detective WANTED to do such, AND arrest him, but he was OVERULED by the DA for some bizzare reason....

Thanks to the Media its FINALLY being investigated....

Hate to say this but recent court cases and laws down there have proven that Florida has a real problem with carrying out the legal process correctly. Not collecting evidence @ the scene of a crime -- not asking the right questions -- taking the word of the one who committed the shooting - and letting him go? This "stand your ground"law is a joke -- How can law and the right to shoot another person dead be based silely on the shooter opinion alone??? Zimmerman did not catch the kid breaking in to a house or mugging someone -- he saw a teenager in a hoodie with candy in his pocket -- he did not personal know so he chased him and confronted him (against direct instruction from 911). Maybe the kid got the best of Zimmerman and "turn the tables on him" -- kicking his butt --still - I would not give him a single penny for a funds to help him with living expense! One last thing -- the NBPP -- they are a very small group of men -- I could get a half dozen guys to protect me and out number them 2 to 1!!!

Hayabusa: That bizarre reason is that there is not enough evidence at this time. How is that bizarre?

Baja5B I have to disagree, there was reason to investigate thoroughly, life was lost. Unarmed, young, innocent life. Secondly, they have the 911 tapes from every caller including his personal one where he was told to not follow and to not engage the person walking, which he did not heed. That alone was reason enough to suspect him of acting in a vigilante manner which is illegal. If a death occurs in the commission of an illegal act it becomes a murder.

You don't find the position of the body suspicious, if the kid was on him when he shot him why wasn't the kids blood all over the jacket Zimmerman was wearing? If someone is straddling you, punching you in the face, beating your head against the concrete and you shoot them they either fall back or fall forward, if they fall back they would be face up not face down. If he falls forward then he lands and bleeds on you, if physics and simple forensics.. the lack of Trayvon's blood on Zimmerman is suspicious enough to make me wonder why Zimmerman didn't just walk away.

Painful:

What evidence do you have that Zimmerman confronted Marvin? On the tape he agrees to stop following and to meet the police at the mailboxes. He clearly can't have confronted Marvin before that. But Martin could have noticed someone that was setting up to "rat him out to the cops."

upright said:

You don't find the position of the body suspicious, if the kid was on him when he shot him why wasn't the kids blood all over the jacket Zimmerman was wearing? If someone is straddling you, punching you in the face, beating your head against the concrete and you shoot them they either fall back or fall forward, if they fall back they would be face up not face down.

Here's the report from Ofc. Ricardo Ayala, the second officer on the scene, submitted 2/27/2012 2:28:

On 2/26 at approximately 1917 hours I was dispatch to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a complainant seeing a suspicious person in the area. While en route dispatch stated that they were receiving calls in reference to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to.

Ofc. T. Smith stated via radio that he was arriving in the area. Ofc. T. Smith later states that there was only one subject shot and he had one at gunpoint.

Upon arrival Ofc. T. Smith had a white male later identified as George Zimmerman, in custody. Zimmerman was also the original caller in reference to the suspicious person.

I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans, and white/red sneakers laying face-down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body. I attempted to get a response from the black male but was met with negative results. At that time Sgt. Raimondo arrived and attempted to get a pulse on the black male but none as found. At that time Sgt. Raimondo and I turned the black male over and began CPR. Sgt. Raimondo did breaths and I did chest compressions.

Sgt. S. McCoy arrived on scene and relieved me continuing compressions. Sanford Fire Rescue arrived on scene and attempted to revive the subject but could not. Paramedic Brady pronounced the subject deceased at 1930 hours.

The scene was then secured with crime scene tape by Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wagner. Ofc. Robertson began a crime scene contamination log.

Lt. Taylor arrived on scene and notified dispatch to have Major Crimes respond to the scene. Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wgner were able to make contact with neighbors in the area. They were able to obtain statements from all witnesses on scene.

The scene was turned over to SPD Major Crimes.

Is there something wrong that you are trying to point out Amanda. I read the report, there is no reference to blood on or around Zimmerman or the area. They do however, say Trayvon was face down and according to Zimmerman's testimony, Trayvon had been sitting on him beating him about the face and chest. So apparently, according to the laws of physics Trayvon fell forward so where did the blood go? Some had to leak out, where is it? Why wasn't Zimmerman's clothing confiscated? These are all things that should have been answered innocent or not. These are questions that should be answered in any self defense case.

Upright said:

Is there something wrong that you are trying to point out Amanda.

Just trying to give some of the other posters on here hard evidence to back you up.

Honestly, the body position is only ONE of the problems I have with the whole thing. Other problems I have are why should he have even had a gun, after you have a restraining order put out against you for domestic violence they usually tell you to surrender any weapons you may have and they yank your permits. It may be different in FL but this is the law in my state. And he other is if Martin accosted Zimmerman at either the mailboxes or the truck, as has been put out in various versions of his story, why was his body found in a grassy area between the two buildings?

My main problem is with the timeline:

1917 hours (7:17 PM)--Zimmerman calls/officers dispatched

1921 hours (approximate)--Zimmerman's call to 911 ends after 4 min 21 sec; at this point Martin is still alive.

???? hours--911 caller is on the phone saying two men are fighting outside her back porch. Sounds of a struggle and a person calling for help is heard, and then one shot rings out. By the time the caller hangs up with 911, police are on the scene, as attested to by the caller stating that she has seen a flashlight. That would have been the first officer on the scene, as neither Zimmerman nor Martin reportedly had flashlights when found. If we can pinpoint the exact time that caller called, we will have an exact moment the bullet was fired, and that will narrow the timeframe down even more. If someone knows of a CREDIBLE link to an UNEDITED transcript of every 911 call made that night in connection with the shooting, please post the link so we can add that last piece of the puzzle. [EDIT: 911 tape transcript WITH TIMESTAMPS.]

1930 hours--Paramedic Brady declares Martin dead after Officer Ayala, Sergeant Raimondo, and Sergeant McCoy, and Paramedic Brady himself have attempted to revive Martin unsucessfully.

Now, Zimmerman's story is that he called 911 about a suspicious person, then per the dispatcher's instructions he stopped following and returned to his vehicle, at which point he says he was jumped from behind by Trayvon, punched hard enough to break his nose, had his head slammed into the sidewalk multiple times, at which point he pulled a gun and shot the teen.

But there's only nine minutes between the time Zimmerman's call disconnected and Paramedic Brady declared him dead. Assuming that each officer spent about a minute attempting resuscitation and the paramedic himself, that cuts another four (approximately) minutes off that time table.

Is that really enough time for what Zimmerman said happened to have actually happened?

(Please note--this has been reconstructed from only VERIFIABLE sources--the police report and the 911 tapes

Thank you, I said that earlier too. If he was charged with domestic violence, assaulting a police officer, and other violent charges how did he get a gun in first place.. Then someone told me that his dad was a judge.... Yay for politics. This may or may not be race motivated but it damn sure smells of class and politicians.

Another thing that frightens me is how anyone who listens to any of the 911 tapes from the witnesses and Zimmerman can think that this was self defense. Every credible witness he has is a character witness and none of them are friends of more than a few years. What about people from 10 years ago, 15, heck I have friend from when I was 12 who would stand right next to me if something like this happened. Of course I've never been accused of violent crimes against anyone unless I was defending someone who needed it or myself. If he had any fear he would have stayed in his vehicle with it running and he wouldn't have gotten off of the phone with 911 until the police arrived. That's common sense. 911 dispatchers tell you to stay on the phone until police arrive when there is a possibility of danger. This guy is a wanna be cop, probably trying to impress daddy and he went too far. Now it is clean o up the mess time.

Being charged and being convicted are different. Charged.... convicted....charged ...convicted. See they even look different.

Alysiachild7 I wonder if that dispicable looser can spell

Innocent Until Proven Guilty should have applied to Trayvon too. Zimmerman took that away from him and acted as judge jury and executioner. Where is his chance at fair justice? Take race away from this.

This is just some kid like any other, gets into trouble like any other teen age boy, learns and moves on..

Zimmerman is any other adult man, who apparently hasn't learned from his past, everyone seems to be looking past the things he has done, just because charges are dropped doesn't mean the crimes didn't happen just means someone had a way of making them go away.. He had been charged with domestic violence, assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, etc, as an adult.

Why can we forget what he has done but not what a teenage kid has done?

Those who defend Zimmerman keep condemning Trayvon for being a kid and making mistakes but they let an adult male slide, seems a little hypocritical to me.

I expect kids to make mistakes, that's how we all learn. An adult who acts like Zimmerman is not making mistakes he is making choices that effect those around him and this time his choice took a life, and the fact is color shouldn't matter. This was a mother's son, a brother's brother, a friend, a grandchild, a father's legacy. This child mattered to so many and so many mattered to him, how can we in good conscious let his life go without making sure the next adult who has a choice to make understands there will be consequences.

Zimmerman's choices included getting out of his car, following Trayvon, engaging Trayvon, and pulling a trigger. All were his choice. All made by an adult, someone who should by all intent and purpose be above making stupid decisions like this, yet so many want to make excuses for him.

He had been charged with domestic violence, assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, etc, as an adult.

Why can we forget what he has done but not what a teenage kid has done?

Because arresting and charging someone is a legal matter. In the legal world, if you weren't convicted, you didn't do it. The police and DA cannot hold those previous events against him because in the eyes of the law he didn't do them. It's a simple enough concept. You can speculate all you want, but public opinion does not justify an arrest or conviction. Evidence does.

This explanation is for the people curious about the resting place of Trayvons body and the lack of volumes of blood being splattered everywhere.. First getting shot in real life is NOT like you see on TV.. One 9mm round and I assume it was a hollow point or expander type projectile as it did not exit his body will not cause a catastrophic explosion of body parts.. As it penetrates the skin it stretches the flesh as the tip of the bullet and the thin layer of compressed air in front of it tear the cell structure.. Once it passes through to soft tissue the hole left behind will close to a very small wound and blood will drip out slowly unless an artery is is opened.. The shock of the bullet as it expands and penetrates soft tissue will create a torn and bruised wound chanel about 2 to 4 inches across causing internal bleeding.. The young man most likely felt a burning pain along with a feeling like the wind was knocked out of him due to being hit in the chest/diaphragm with the shot.. He most likely stood up and grabbed his chest in shock and turned to run but within a few seconds weakened to the point of collapse and fell forward with his momentum.. Observing how animals behave when they are fatally shot is a more realistic look at terminal ballistics on something living.. Ask someone who has been in real combat that has seen someone die.. It is seldom instantaneous and not something you want to see in person.. What happened happened and no amount of wishing will bring someone back to life..

Upright:

Zimmerman, as best as can be determined, killed Martin in defense of his own life. That is not the same as acting as judge, jury , and executioner.

This is just some kid like any other

No, a 17-year-old is not "just some kid." He is physically an adult. And he can beat someone to death. In this case, that is what he was doing to Zimmerman. There is a reason why we aren't being shown what he looked like at 17. And it's not that pictures aren't available.

If you are shot in or around the heart you don't bleed as the heart is not pumping. That is why speculation should be held until the full report is out. There was a picture of Martin in a football uniform at 6'3" and 160, he could have easily thrown over a fat 220 5'8" paunchy guy. Football players are taught to take down much larger people. So let the investigators do their work. This is no kid. And no one has come forth with what happened to the earrings and rings found in the bookbag. Being suspended three times doesn't make this man a very good prospect for graduation or a credit to society.

Actually his parents posted facebook photos of him from this year.. you just have to look around.. it's called research. Looking like an adult doesn't make you one. I was at my full height and weight at 13, and had reached almost full physical maturity, including a D-cup, didn't make me mature enough to make life choices, nor was I prepared at 17 to do so. Zimmerman was 11 years senior to Trayvon and Zimmerman was fully grown, brain developed completely unless he had mental issues and if he did he should never have been given a gun license. That is what the 3 day wait is for. Just because the charges didn't stick, (anyone really wonder why when daddy is a judge?) doesn't mean he didn't do what he was accused of. Most of the time if someone is accused of violence repeatedly there is a reason.

And you're both sure the earrings and rings aren't his? Have either of you been looking at today's kids? 8 out of 10 of the boys in the high school in our little farm town.. and I mean small farm town less than 30,000 people total, have their ears pierced, including my youngest, and wait a minute... OMG they wear rings too. My son has his class ring and a pinky ring that his girl got him, as well as about 6 pairs of earrings. Just because he had extras with him doesn't mean he stole them and you assuming that it does makes you the south end of a donkey facing north. You believe everything that comes from Zimmerman's friends and family? Why? Because of their upstanding ways? How do you know how good of people they are? All you have is their word. Well I have heard and read plenty bad too about him and so have you, but you're willing to give him a pass even though he was the adult. Just straight up admit why because you may be fooling yourself but you're not fooling me. Trayvon has plenty of people including teachers, his principal, friends, family just as Zimmerman did that say he was a good kid, and you still want to call him trouble and say he deserved to die. Why? Because he was young? Or was it his skin color? How about his gender? Was it a combination of all three? What is it about Trayvon that scares you so much that a kid dying doesn't make you angry?

Fact is you're all right about one thing, nothing will come of this most likely.

What ever evidence there was is contaminated or gone because it was never collected, the jacket was trashed or washed, the area has been trampled, the audio has been corrupted, and the video is at best grainy and not dated. Witnesses have stated that their statements have been misconstrued and changed, while others say their statements weren't taken at all, so no, there will be no real justice.

Oh and PS. Bill... I think you mean loser not looser...

Loser- means one that has lost, failed a challenge

looser- means baggier, non fitting.

I don't have time to type the entire story, but from what is coming out it appears that the person most responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin is Trayvon Martin himself. Trayvon Martin was the attacker. Trayvon attacked George Zimmerman, and during the struggle his jacket came open revealing Zimmerman's, as yet still holstered, handgun. Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun and while the two men fought over control of the pistol it discharged. George Zimmerman is guilty of self defense. Trayvon Martin killed himself. The New Black Panthers need to be arrested for putting out a bounty on Zimmerman.

dictionary72

Where did you go to medical school? I can tell you where I took my nursing courses, Indian HIlls, and I can promise you that even when shot "in or around the heart" you bleed, especially if laying face down on the wound. Please God give me Patience... by the truck load.

Oldman, Just because Zimmerman said it doesn't make it true. I would tell you to go listen to the 911 call that lets you hear the kid begging for help, and you can tell it's a kid, but it wouldn't matter because the truth doesn't matter to people who refuse look past their hate and fear.

I pity and pray for all bigots..

But you have never seen someone in the first moments after being shot or stabbed have you?? It is not as most people think or see in the movies.. Sometimes the wounded themselves do not fully realize what has happened.. Upon initial trauma arteries and muscles constrict stopping blood flow momentarily into the wound.. If you have ever had a pain inducing cut you can witness this delay..

Saying at 17 he was still a child and could not comprehend that he was attacking someone is a bit of a stretch don't you think.. Young adults kill people and some are tried as adults.. Years back there was a case where children as you would call them because they were under 18 were murdering people at random as a gang initiation.. So we may never know the mindset of Trayvon or what he intended to do to George that evening.. Doing the adult thing like what?? Self preservation comes to mind when a person of any age is being brutally attacked and chooses to do what he or she has to to survive.. And don't say poor Trayvon as he did not have a mark on him except the gunshot wound..

I never said he didn't comprehend he was attacking someone and as a fact we don't know that he did, Zimmerman said he did, there are no eye witnesses to this, even the child who says he saw something was looking through a window from a side position. So basically it is Zimmerman's word against Trayvon's and Trayvon can't defend himself now can he? I said that as a kid he makes mistakes, mistakes that you would expect an adult to know better than to make. IF, Trayvon confronted Zimmerman for stalking him, and that is exactly what Zimmerman was doing if you look at it from Trayvon's position, it is understandable because Trayvon is still immature and not quite as knowledgeable as a grown, fully mature man should be. The human brain does not fully mature until around 22-24 years of age and is still hormonally fluctuating therefore not thinking as clearly as could be. As I have said before, education education education, you don't even have to go to college if you have internet there are plenty of online libraries that you can join that share college and graduate school level books to do research from. People teach yourself.

I've seen a soldier injure himself with much the same injuries trying to get leave, and a grown man who wanted the cops to go after his ex-wife's new boyfriend scrape his head and face along a brick wall then bang the back of his head on the said same wall to convince the cops he was attacked. Good thing the bar he was at was directly across the street from a bank ATM and the camera caught it all on film, because with the way you people want to take the word of the "victim'' her poor boyfriend would be sitting in prison.

As for your question roadrunner, more than I care to, how about you? How many hands of comrades or friends or family have you held as they passed their last breath? I've seen stabbings and GSWs. I love people who have not lived it preaching to those who have.

As for your comment about the mark on him... and Zimmerman didn't have any reported defensive wounds or bruises either, I promise you that if someone is sitting on me pummeling my face, I will have my arms raised to protect it. Wouldn't you? Of course not, you'd be reaching into your pants for the gun you didn't warn him about when you started the altercation wouldn't you?

Seems a bit cowardly to me..

Looking like an adult doesn't make you one.

I'm not going to argue that Martin was emotionally and mentally an adult. But he was physically. Which means that, when he was beating Zimmerman, he posed an adult-sized threat.

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There are two things that the people who want to lynch Zimmerman keep bringing up, but never at the same time. The police wanted Zimmerman charged (and presumably convicted.) And the police were somewhat, ah, cavalier about collecting evidence. Well, I'm going to speculate a little bit.

Zimmerman already admitted that he had shot Martin. He simply claimed self-defense. Ordinarily, self-defense is an affirmative defense that the defense team has to prove. The prosecution only has to establish the shooting. The police figured they already had what what they needed to get a conviction. Anything they might turn up with more thorough evidence gathering could only serve to make Zimmerman's self-defense case. And they were not about to do that. They simply didn't notice that there was a legal technicality in Florida that the defendant didn't have to prove self-defense. He only had to assert it. It was up to the prosecution to show that it was not self-defense. The prosecutor told them that they had messed up royally and the case was now unprosecutable. At this point, the police, who wanted Zimmerman behind bars, wished they had done a better job investigating.

Even when the perpetrator admits guilt the evidence must be collected, even in cases of self defense, otherwise everyone would claim self defense. I could come to your neighborhood, shoot you, scrape myself up a bit using a wall or sidewalk while waiting for the police, say you attacked me, and claim self defense. If they don't collect evidence such as blood splatter (yes it does exist), wound description), gsr, power burn evidence, etc and there is a milieu of things that can take a case from innocence to guilt, then there is a chance that a miscarriage of justice will occur.

Also I agree with this part of your assessment.

I don't agree however that Z is not guilty, he knew he had a gun, and I seriously doubt that he warned T of it. I think he (looking at his past behavior) was looking for a fight and when it didn't go the way he thought it would he did get scared and shot, but only after he started it and only after he was losing, and especially only since he knew there was no way he would truly lose since he had the one sure equalizer.

Upright:

I never said he didn't comprehend he was attacking someone and as a fact we don't know that he did,

As a matter of fact we do. Those injuries Zimmerman sustained show that he was attacked.

Of course not, you'd be reaching into your pants for the gun you didn't warn him about when [he jumped you from behind] wouldn't you?

Warning him about the gun would only help him to take it and use it against me.

Seems a bit cowardly to me..

Based on your posts, any actions other than laying down and dying seems a bit cowardly to you. Well, I would rather have you think me a coward than be a corpse. I'm sure Zimmerman feels the same way. How about you? Would you really just lay down there and die?

The lynch em mob keeps forgetting the statement from the witness who stated that Trayvon was on top, Zimmerman on the bottom and a beating going on.. Can we say the kid was not going to kill George? NO.. But George thought he was and that's what the law states is his right while being felonious assaulted.. And even with eye witnesses we here stuff like "he stalked the kid and shot him in cold blood then bashed his head and face on the concrete to claim self defense"..

Yes I have been shot and stabbed and cut and knocked unconscious for a week but luckily each were separate incidents in a sometimes stupid and sometimes accident prone life..

Actually none of Z's injuries are defensive wounds... if he had tried to defend himself from a position on the bottom of a fight there would be bruises on his forearms, etc., have you seen pics of any, I haven't. I wouldn't let anyone pound on me without protecting my face and head, and yes I know what self defense and hand to hand is, our illustrious government made sure. They train girls as well as boys. It is quite simple to fake mild nose and head injuries, if Trayvon was doing as much damage as Z says I would expect Z to have at least a few self defense injuries.

I have seen soldiers give themselves much the same facial injuries falling down while running and one who smacked himself in the face with a helmet because he wanted leave. Long story.. part of the reason I am now doing mental health.

I have also personally known of a grown man who beat himself up in an alley way behind a bar, come into the bar and call the cops to report his ex's new boyfriend for it. Thankfully the ATM across the street video taped the whole thing and he ended up in jail instead. IF they had taken him at face value her boyfriend would have been there. All we really have is Z's word. No evidence.

Unless you're ex-military too roadrunner I would go hide under my bed because you have to be the unluckiest SOB out there..or the luckiest since you're still here.

Or full of BS

Publius

ALL your comments are speculation. You are building a case in Zimmerman's favour which is not borne out by any of the evidence released into the public domain. Why are you so sure that it all went down as you say it did?? Very puzzling - unless you are a Zimmerman!

Telling someone you have a gun is the same as brandishing it to someone as a threat.. That is what the law calls felonious threatening with a firearm.. They teach you that is a NO NO on the first day of concealed carry permit training.. Unbelievable, these INTERNET executioners need to learn a bit more about the law before they sentence someone to die..

Does NBC and MSBC have a problem with the truth. The audio taps of Zimmerman's call are very clear and understandable. When he called, Zimmerman reported a "suspicious " character. The operator then asked is he white, black or Hispanic? Zimmerman replied "he's black" . NBC played the audio tape but deleted the question so the audio, as reported, said something like " a suspicious character. He's Black". NBC offered a two line apology for the mistake, (how does one accidentally erase a line from an audio tape. Think about it. Now lets get to the 5th Circuit issue.

Obama made a statement that goes against the foundation of our Nation. Judge Smith of the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals questioned its accuracy and required the DOJ to provide an explanation of Obama's position (3 single spaced pages w/i a day in a half). A short and very poor rely was made, but MSMBC didn't even report that the DOJ had "complied" with the Judge's order, better yet MSNBC did not publish the JOD's letter which was readily available.

Goggle: "holder letter 5th Circuit" and see what you will find. Not one liberal newspaper has printed it. This is not reporting: This is systematic partisan on the part of the once respected news industry. If it had not been for FOX I would have continued to trust the press -- the press is just big dollars, like the snake oil salesman, making money on lies. DON'T BITCH ABOUT WALL STREET.

BTW: If you want to know what the administrations position is on our democracy pay attention to the last sentence. It's hilarious!!

Every 911 tape of Z's call that I have heard has the question of description in it.. I have never said Z did it out of racism. Fox news is just as biased as any other.

The President and his staff need to bone up on how the constitution and the whole American governmental system works.. He is coming very close to making treasonous statements against the very country he is supposed to be serving..

Still amazed that people disregard the eye wittiness.. Getting sucker punched usually means you didn't know it was coming.. Hard to block punches when your head is being bashed into the sidewalk as he stated.. So he did not fight well or at all, nowhere in the law about self defense does it state you have to.. Assume the boy had only innocent thoughts, that would be a guess..

Actually law about warning if armed or not goes as such.

• Have clear boundaries of your property

• Have, if adequate, signs warning intruders that lethal force may be applied

• If an intruder is found, activate a sound or light signal that will warn the intruder to leave the premises

• If the intruder is not carrying a weapon as far as you can see, use a voice command indicating that you are armed (from a safe position)

• Do a warning shot to the ground (there are situations i have heard of where a warning shoot was fired up and the man was sued so make sure to shoot the ground but away from feet)

• If the intruder appears to be armed and engaging aim for the chest as it's the largest part of the body and a hit will neutralize the threat.

• Do not approach or shoot from a short distance and if possible keep the intruder under control at a distance until the authorities arrive.

Does any of this sound like Zimmerman's approach.....?

Seriously, there are no eye witnesses, the only one who saw anything was 13 and saw it from a side view, the witnesses heard it. Z is the only one to give eye witness testimony and I seriously doubt he will come out and say "hey I shot this kid because I got in too deep with a fight I couldn't handle" better to say, "he attacked me and I was afraid". Look at his record for yourself... You claim we all ignore Trayvon's sins. Well at least he is a kid and kids make mistakes, Z is a grown man and his mistakes are way more dangerous than T's were. Look for yourself for once.

Zimmerman was told to desist the stalking of Martin. He said OK-- does that mean anything. I bet many people have said OK and were just saying it to be saying it and they don't mean it. That bas***d said OK and just went on stalking Martin.

Where were the "witnesses"? Had there been any they could have taken command of the situation. The "witnesses" were nowhere to be found. Oh sure, his buddies have come out of the woodwork-- termites come out of the woodwork too, and they are as useful as his "witnesses".

Seems funny that there are two sides to the question-- and one side is deceased and can't tell his side.

I hope that the good guys can make heads and tails out of this mess-- seems that there are some that can't or won't. Wonder who is passing money under the table to those funny people.

upright1 ,,,Remember the pictures of Nicole Simpson where OJ had beat her unmercifully ? remember the 911 calls she made and we all heard OJ screaming nasty crap ay her etc etc ? Dindt amount to a hill of beans to the jury. You assume a lot of things in your post,,But since the SPD..FBI and Prosecutor havent released all the proof. WE dont know all the evidence.. You keep staing Zimmerman had no defensive wounds,, have you seen him up close enough to state that ??? Remember that DYING woman in Fla that everyone jumped into the decision to let her die or not... Senator Bill Frist,,being a DOCTOR stated He knew without a doubt She wasnt brain dead.. He almost lost his license to practice Medicine for ASSUMING what HE DID NOT KNOW. Turned out she was brain dead. BTW I joined the US ARMY at 17,,,6 months later I was in Viet Nam. Maybe its not how old we are BUT what we decide to do as far as BEING AN ADULT. I agree with 1 thing you said,,This case probably wont go far. Too many mistakes PLUS That Fla law. ooops I meant that STUPID LAW. I think If it goes to court ,,We will see another OJ trial..Thats just my opinion

Actually tn4ever, I will concede your point, I haven't seen any defensive wounds, partly my point. If he had them that would be proof he isn't lying and I would think he would be parading them around for every camera out there, and I would think the cops would be sure to photograph them to back up the choice that was made to release him.

As for maturity, there are always exceptions, that doesn't make the rule. You were an exception, good for you or bad how ever you look at it. Trayvon was still making kid mistakes and deserved as much as any kid does, to learn from them. Even if Z is found guilty, he will not lose his family, he will still know love, he will get to live. Trayvon will never feel a mother's arms again, never get a chance to be the man his father dreamed he could be, be the brother his brothers need, and so on. Yes he may have made bad choices but he was a kid....KID... not an adult OJ adult, Dr adult, Z adult... it does make a difference. If you have kids you know this is true, is your kid the same person now they were at 17. Put yourself in their place. Everyone should. Color shouldn't be a factor, we need as a community to be teaching all of our children to respect life, it is precious, and it is something that once stolen cannot be returned.

If the police were doing their job, Zimmerman would be in custody and all evidence related to the case would be confiscated. This has not happened, and doesn't show any sign of changing.

Trayvon Martin would be alive today, if George Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher. Why didn't he? Trayvon was talking to his girlfriend on the phone, he told her he was being followed. Anyone of us if we were being chased by a stranger and he continued the chase, would make a stand. Zimmerman was not a policeman, and he had no right to confront Trayvon on being in that community. You do not get out of your car to chase a person, that can get you killed. There are other blacks living in this gated community, Zimmerman does not know all of them. Zimmerman may get off, after all his father is a retied judge, and his brother a lawyer. Trayvon Martin is dead at age 17, and zimmerman killed him. The pictures of the two are not important, a 17 year old is not a man and Zimmerman in a suit and tie, doesn't make him any less of a killer. The only reason Trayvon's parents seeked help from outsiders is because they saw the police sitting there doing nothing, and letting the time expire so charges couldn't be brought up on Zimmerman. They had a right to know why their son was killed and by whom. Trayvon was a person, and his parents wanedt to know what happened to him and why? I admired Natilee Holloway's mother for pursuing Natilee's killer, although it was never proven they tried. All Trayvon's parents want is to bring Zimmerman to trial, that's their rights as parents. A jury will decide Zimmerman fate, and that's as it shouid. Let's be truthful, if Zimmerman was dead, we'd have Trayvon up on murder chareges. Obama told the press, that the justice was looking into the case and they are, he mentioned that if he had a son , he would look lie Trayvon, true, he was talking about the boy's coloring. Why, would anyone get offend???? It seems to me, that stupid bigots, gets upset about everything Obama says. or does. Obama didn't cause the Hell Hole are are in, Bush and cheney has to take credi fort that . Obama's one fault is his color, most American do not want a"Black man" serving as president. I really can't see why not, the man is smart, very articulate, a family man, and a Chritain. The very sad thing about this whole Trayvon, Zimmerman situation is that "RACISM" has raised it's nasty little head and nothing wll get done.

Avery:

Trayvon Martin would be alive today, if George Zimmerman had listened to the police dispatcher. Why didn't he?

But he did. He agreed to stop following and to meet the police at the mailboxes. Admittedly, it took a few weeks before the media stopped editing that part out of the tapes. But Martin knew he was being followed and decided to attack Zimmerman.

The pictures of the two are not important, a 17 year old is not a man and Zimmerman in a suit and tie, doesn't make him any less of a killer.

A 17-year-old young man like Martin is just as capable of beating someone to death as any adult. Why not say what you mean? You think Zimmerman should have laid down and died and that everybody should have "properly" ignored that situation.

Toasty:

The police did their job. They arrested hm. But they couldn't hold him because the prosecutor wouldn't file charges that could only lead to an acquittal.

Upright:

Actually tn4ever, I will concede your point, I haven't seen any defensive wounds, partly my point. If he had them that would be proof he isn't lying and I would think he would be parading them around for every camera out there, and I would think the cops would be sure to photograph them to back up the choice that was made to release him.

The police ensured that Zimmerman's injuries (including defensive wounds, if any) were cleaned up before any photographs were taken. Releasing him wasn't their choice. They wanted Zimmerman charged. They had to release him because the prosecutor wouldn't touch it. If there were no defensive wounds, I'm sure that would have been spelled out all over the place. The police do not want to support a claim of self-defense.

Pvblivs, Zimmerman was not arrested. He was detained for questioning.

Pvblivs, you are obviously a racist who is supporting a fellow racist.

But Martin could have noticed someone that was setting up to "rat him out to the cops."

Martin could have noticed that someone was setting up to rat him out to the cops for... walking home with tea and Skittles? Trayvon was doing nothing illegal to be ratted out for. Oh, but he's black so he must have been "up to no good", right? You and Zimmerman are two of a kind.

Ron:

If you are taken into a police station in handcuffs, you have been arrested. Zimmerman was arrested. But, since the prosecutor wouldn't charge him, they couldn't hold him for very long.

Pvblivs, you are obviously a racist who is supporting a fellow racist.

I've read your posts. You say anyone who doesn't want to throw a "necktie party" for Zimmerman is racist. In reality, it's just a "don't listen" tactic.

Oh, but he's black so he must have been "up to no good", right?

Wrong. And the fact that you have to set up a straw-man speaks volumes. If Martin were as innocent as the lynch mob would have us believe, given that he was so close to the place that he was staying, he would have run home; and he would still be alive. Zimmerman, being fat and out of shape could never have caught him. But that's not what Martin did. Martin jumped Zimmerman when his back was turned and started beating on him.

The fact that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head in tells me he didn't want to be ratted out to the cops. It doesn't tell me what specificly he thought Zimmerman could tell the police, although the recently revealed school suspensions offer some possibilities. But, if he was fully innocent, he could run home, and Zimmerman could do nothing. Well, he could point the address out to the police, who would have knocked on the door and found that he was just staying there.

Do a warning shot to the ground (there are situations i have heard of where a warning shoot was fired up and the man was sued so make sure to shoot the ground but away from feet)

Too many o's in warning shot. Like looser and loser. I guess that negates your whole arguement.

Now about that D. That wasn't a typo was it?

False equivalency. This outrage is about an unarmed kid who was not breaking the law getting shot by a vigilante and there being no arrest. This is about equal justice under the law.

Angry Reader I think it started that way... The outrage.

That's why I am upset but some people took the opportunity to make this a race issue..

I think this will get worse before it gets better.. Unfortunately

Well said. Where's Sharpton, Jackson, et. al for the hundreds, if not thousands, of black on black crime victims? This is the same mentality that had millions around the world riled up about South Africa's racism, all the while 100s of 1000s were being slaughtered in Mozambique, Angola, Rwanda, etc. PC run amok, once again!!!

Maybe because it is a race issue. Call it exactly how it is and not how you want it to be!

People made it a racial issue?? Zimmerman did.. By racially profiling him.... he was "Suspicious" and "Looked like he was on drugs" and "Up to no good"....when he was just walking home....

i don't care how polite and timid this guy seems, he has an abusive past with his girlfriend, was fired from previous employment with a security business because he had a short fuse, he should be arrested and let a jury decide....

if this had been a black neighborhood watch guy who had shot a white teenager???? do you think they would have charged him with murder 1 at the crime scene???? you betcha...rednecked racial profiling at it's finest..law or no law.

Hayabusa-1004771 - Whites, Latinos or Asians can't look "Suspicious", "Like he was on drugs" and "Up to no good?" Who is the racist?

he's not seeing a penny from me.

Yes the news media has blown this up' -- but this is happening from all sides. As far as public outrage about other young black men being killed in the past -- that happens eveyday --but does not always get the attention of this case. Why don't we just get back to the facts: Don't show me the kid's photo as a 13 year old -- don't show me Zimmerman's prom photo from 2001 -- or his mug shot from 2010 -- show us what thsey two men looked like shortly before that night -- FACTS -- we can not judge what was or was not in the mindes of the parties involved -- The police know if Zimmerman was seriously hurt or not -- (why are we agrueing about a bad quality videpo?) they know if the teenager was 5 foot 7 and 130 punds or 6"3 and 215! I don't care what Al Sharpton or Sean Hannity say --to advance their own agenda and get attention and rating -- Enought BS -- What are the FACTS!!!? The Florida cops on the scene must at least know that much!!!

Hayabusa-1004771

People made it a racial issue?? Zimmerman did.. By racially profiling him.... he was "Suspicious" and "Looked like he was on drugs" and "Up to no good"....when he was just walking home....

How do you know Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, how do you know that all the guys he thought were suspicious (during his neighborhood watches) and looked as if they were "up to no good" were all black guys? And also how can you be sure that Trayvon Martin "was just walking home". You assume all your statements are facts, while you don't know any more then I do if they are.

I will not assume that Zimmerman was not racist, eventho I tend to believe that he was not, considering his past. I will not assume that Martin was up to no good either, because I have no idea of what made Zimmerman think that he was, but I do tend to believe that Zimmerman believing that he looked suspicious had nothing to do with Martin being a black guy, to start with he wasn't even sure that he was black, he confirmed it during the 911 call when he saw Martin coming towards him.

Rachel - you are right. He didn't say coon, he said "f'n coon." There are unedited versions on the net you can listen to, which I did. You can clearly hear him utter "f'n coon."

sarah-3519311

Rachel - you are right. He didn't say coon, he said "f'n coon." There are unedited versions on the net you can listen to, which I did. You can clearly hear him utter "f'n coon."

Actually I just listened to the enhanced audio and he clearly DOES NOT say f'n coon, he says f'n punk.

Who in their right mind would support a murderer and liar. He lied to us all from the beginning and got away with it. He owes the martin family a fair trial.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=autistic%20man%20killed%20in%20massachusetts&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0cccqfjaa&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww1.whdh.com%2fnews%2fmain%2flocal%2fworcester-area%2f&ei=znh_t9whjanl0qgu3cdubw&usg=afqjcnhxsf2fdt7p3vjdyajazin7d2zt0w

where is the outrage? a white man, who was autistic was just killed by 2 black people in massachusetts! the liberals are coming! the liberals are coming said paul revere! but they are not coming at all...where are reverends al and jesse? where is obama,spike, and msdnc? come on this has to be a hate crime right? come on i demand justice!!!!!!

Oh come on now all you racists. All we're asking for is that George gets arrested. Not convicted as yet. This is truly what is pissing off Al Sharpton and black people in general. He hasn't even been arrested. We all know he shot the kid. In any other situation he would at least been arrested and released on bail....but not in this case. And you wonder why black people and some of us whites are pissed. Due process people. Let's just at least get that part of justice going.

Evidently Florida law says you can do this...if this is true and he didnt break the law....why should he sit in a county jail until a trial...if you didnt breake the law would you like to rot in a jail cell for months/years awaiting trial?

AMEN i think thatt's all everyone wants. If anybody else had done this they would have been taking to jail and had to bondout. Hell i got aressted for driving on a revoked license and had to go to jail and bondout and that was a simple ticket. I want this played out in court but it's looking like that will never happen.

Gemini, you're an idiot...again i have to break out the crayons for liberals...the law says you can shoot someone in FL in self defense...the cops determined this is the case...if he were arrested for murder or even manslaughter he's be locked up until trail...no bail like a revoked license ticket...my point was why should he spend months or years in county jail awaiting trial if he obey florida law as deemed by the police and DA. goodnight....

So, "Oh Really" basically what you're saying is, you're upset with how modern teens act so you're going to give a thousand dollars to a man who killed a 17 year old just for the hell of it?

Please, do this world a favor and burn in hell.

count me in, Tex

....Zimmerman deserves protection from the lynch mob hysteria whipped up by MSNBC and the like

ron davidson-530439

Oh come on now all you racists. All we're asking for is that George gets arrested. Not convicted as yet.

First of all I am not racist, and have never been. I am reacting to the position adopted by Trayvon's family supporters, who assume because Zimmerman is white, that he is a racist (and assuming this is actually racist), and that he racially profiled and killed Martin because he was black. And unless you missed everything in the news, you would know that some people are not only asking for him to get arrested, they convicted him already, they assume he is guilty, and want him to either get the death penalty or spend the rest of his life in prison, not to mention sending threats to him and his family. All this without knowing any more then any of us about what actually happened.

As I mentioned in other posts, of course I have opinions like everyone else, but contrary to people who have already convicted Zimmerman, as if they were witnesses, I refuse to consider him guilty (or not guilty) for the time being, because just as any of us posting here, I only know what I have read and heard in the medias, said medias having been incredibly biased, depicting Zimmerman as a racist who intended to kill Martin.

You also keep mentioning how this case was not handled normally, well I suggest you check Florida laws concerning self-defense cases, you will realise they actually followed the regular procedure. In any case I agree that an investigation should be done tho, in any self-defense case, not just this one.

And the Black Panthers, issuing a reward for the arrest of George Zimmerman, are actually asking people to act exactly as Zimmerman supposedly did, they want people to confront and arrest him, therefore risking more deaths, talk about stupid.

Briefly my position is that we shouldn't assume anything at this point, and certainly not condemn someone based only on what we read and hear in the medias. And also I am against lynching and ransacking stores supposedly in support of Trayvon. If Trayvon was the good kid people think he was, I'm sure he wouldn't approve.

Yes, because I'm sure the ratings grabbing, race baiting media scrutiny has made it possible for them to go about their lives in a normal fashion without fear for their safety.

Even if after a thorough, open investigation there is still no charges, and it is shown he acted in self defense, you know there will still be many out there that will not accept and want some misguided revenge. He and his family won't be safe for many years to come.

All because the media is corrupt, and saw a way to make a few more bucks.

LN68: Have you ever had a court appointed attorney? My guess is NO. They **** and even if your innocent of the charges try to get you to plead out. Why they don't extra money for winning your case. So the short it is the better for them to settle your case as fast as possible.

I had to fire my court appointed attorney, just to win my case.

Jeremiah77,

I don't want revenge. I want justice and the peace that comes with knowing that if my child was gunned down on the streets, justice will prevail.

He can't get a court appointed lawyer until he's charged.

Why would i need to explain myself to anybody!!! Everyone has as much right as the next person to be anywhere anytime. No cop, no security officer, no explaination needed! Zimmerman should of been nice and left the CHILD(somebody not of age yet) alone. 

If you are on private property?

Umm, I think that Trayvon was staying with his dad and his girlfriend, on "said" private property.

"Marcia, You and all like you are ignoring one VITAL piece of information. THIS IS A GATED COMMUNITY and as such EVERYTHING BEHIND THE GATE IS PRIVATE PROPERTY. If you are on private property and some one asks you what you are doing or where you are going, better be nice and answer or you might get your ass shot off. AND FURTHER, THIS IS NO CHILD."

Oh PuhLEAZE...... NO one... and i mean NO ONE has the "RIGHT" to stop you, and ask you what you are doing here..... No even COPS... You have the RIGHT to remain silent... Sure... a COP can detain you, or even arrest you, but you dont have to say jack Sh** to him. In this case Zimmerman has NO right to detain, and no right to persue anyone. He is not a person of authority. If you think random strangers on the street have to right to confront you, and detain you, or question you, and youre obligated to answer, then youre pathetic.

WilliamJenkins,

Why is it not Zimmermans job to prove that his life was at risk and justify his actions. He admitted to killing another person. There is no dispute there. He has the burden of proving that his actions were justified, and the victims family has that same right of presumed innocence. You are assuming that the dead person has done anything to deserve being killed. Nice double standard.

Leatherneck918

LN68: Have you ever had a court appointed attorney? My guess is NO. They **** and even if your innocent of the charges try to get you to plead out. Why they don't extra money for winning your case. So the short it is the better for them to settle your case as fast as possible.

I had to fire my court appointed attorney, just to win my case.

Maybe that part of why Blacks are 7 times more likely to be imprisoned for the same crimes that Whites get charged with.

Chris: Perhaps you are not aware of the 'innocent until proven guilty' clause built into the Constitution? It is not Zimmerman's 'job' to prove anything nor is it withing the purvue of the family to claim innocence. That is the whole problem here, too many woefully ignorant folk making assumptions without having any education. You really need to do some research on basic law in this country.

Hayabusa,

You seriously need to get back on your meds.

People and their gun talk I wonder how brave you would be without it ....

Innocent Until Proven Guilty should have applied to Trayvon too. Zimmerman took that away from him and acted as judge jury and executioner. Where is his chance at fair justice? Take race away from this.

This is just some kid like any other, gets into trouble like any other teen age boy, learns and moves on..

Zimmerman is any other adult man, who apparently hasn't learned from his past, everyone seems to be looking past the things he has done, just because charges are dropped doesn't mean the crimes didn't happen just means someone had a way of making them go away.. He had been charged with domestic violence, assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, etc, as an adult.

Why can we forget what he has done but not what a teenage kid has done?

Innocent until he jumped a man, punched him and beat his head on the ground. That's what was done...whether he is a 17 y.o. 6' teenager or an adult.

Who said that anyone jumped anyone, punched him and beat his head to the ground? Why is it that the "witnesses" weren't around when the cops got there? If there actually were witnesses and Zimmerman was getting beat why didn't they step in and stop the beating? There were no dam witnesses and there is only ONE side of the story that can be told. Isn't it convenient that the other side was shot and killed and CAN'T tell his side of the story.

Florida's law is a republican SHOOT TO KILL law-- passed by republicans and signed into law by a republican governor.

I wonder why a hospital or a doctor hasn't come forward with a medical report on the incident-- unless there was no incident to report on. That would also be an explanation for the Zimmerman's not having a medical report. If it was that serious they would have taken him to a hospital-- you don't fix a busted nose with a bandaid. Even EMTs know that!

I don't see Martin talking on his cell and dying within 5 minutes of the call. I beleive the young girl when she recalls the conversation. Could it be that Mr.Zimmerman attacked Trayvon Martin,got the wind beat out of him and pulled a gun out after he realized this youngman wasn't going down the way he wanted? YES. I don't see Martin attacking him and being on his cell at the same time. Either way his daddy is an EX SUPREME COURT OF VIGINIA JUDGE & HAS BEEN BAILING GEORGE OUT SINCE THE LAST INCIDENT. WHY CAN'T HE BAIL GEORGE OUT NOW? MAMACITA IS A GOVERNMENT CLERK IN THE COUNTY OFFICE. THEY CAN'T SCROUNGE UP ENOUGH TO SUPPORT GEORGE'S DEFENSE? OR ARE THEY BANKING ON THEIR BEING ALOT OF RACISTS OUT THERE WHO MIGHT LOOK PAST MAMACITA AND HELP THE FAMILY OUT? OR ARE THEY GEARING UP FOR THE CIVIL SUIT WHERE THEY KNOW THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS LESS AND THAT GEORGE WILL FINANCIALLY BE MADE TO PAY FOR THE REST OF HIS NATURAL BORN LIFE. GOD IS GOOD AND GEORGE WILL PAY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. SO DADDY GOT HIM OUT OF JAIL. BUT DADDY CAN'T HELP HIM OUT WITH HIS THE FINACES OR HIS SOUL.

My question exactly and it scares the daylights out of me as a mother of 8 boys, 3 biological and 5 fosters. Everyone of them have boxing, Tia-Kwan-Do, Karate' or Kick-boxing training because I felt they needed the discipline and the self protection. One of them shows extreme promise and once when sparring with a professional middle weight boxer from our neck of the woods the pro told me and my husband that being hit by my then 18 year old and 15 lbs lighter son was like being hit by a freight train and that he was still seeing stars. When the weather is nice enough all of them like to run at night and always have and they all wear hoodies, what happens when some idiot doesn't recognize them and does something like this? Am I supposed to just sit back and accept it... OH HELL NO.. they think this poor boys parents are raising Cain now, they haven't seen the Hell I would raise on the behalf of one of mine.

Upright, If I judge from the information we have been told so far, Zimmerman followed Martin (note that they didn't tell him not to follow, they said: we don't need you to do that, but I agree that he should have stopped following nonetheless) and Martin jumped on Zimmerman, not the other way around. And what's with all the bragging about your kick-boxing, karate, and tae-kwon-do kids? what does it have to do with anything. With or without karate knowledge, as long as they don't jump on people I don't see what the problem is, if someone jumps on them they have the right to defend themselves, and if they jump on someone then its at their own risk, just like everybody else. What scares me is how you brag about the pro seeing stars, what's your point with that exactly? that your kid can hurt someone badly?

My point is Anna if my kid is out there jogging and some guy toting a gun starts following him around then confronts one of them it could end up like this if my son tries to defend himself. Zimmerman confronted and engaged Trayvon, he got out of his vehicle to do so, followed the kid on foot, and was carrying a gun and I'll bet you he didn't tell Trayvon he had that gun either, coward started a fight he thought he could win because he was bigger and an adult, but when it didn't go his way he pulled a concealed weapon and used it. Even a cop warns the perpetrator before pulling out his weapon and it is always in sight. This is like hiding the gun you know you're going to use if you lose a fist fight. If he would have said I have a gun do you think Trayvon would have stood there? It's not bragging I was making a point, chances are my son, who by the way is fighting for your right to spew hate and ignorance right now, would win hand to hand combat but if some idiot pulled a gun in a fist fight that's a whole different story.

SEMPER FI and that is Bragging... Go Military!!!!!!!

Upright I'm not spewing hate right now, if you knew me you'd know I'm not a hater lol, but yeah I think telling us how your sons are good with tae kwon do, kick-boxing, and karate was unnecessary, you were indeed bragging about your kids learning martial arts and I called you on it, and it ticked you off. You know very well it has nothing to do with a person jumping on another, you can do that with or without knowledge of martial arts. You want your kids to be able to defend themselves, I think it is a good thing, I would do the same, (myself I know judo and kung-fu) but I still don't see why they would jump on someone unless provoked, its always best to get away and call 911 if you can, martial arts or not, the other guy might be just as good, and usually you get hurt during a fight.

Also you assume, based on what you hear in the medias, and without knowing any more details then I do, that Zimmerman jumped on Martin. Personally I think we should wait for an investigation and/or trial instead of jumping to conclusions. And by the way, if Zimmerman did jump on Martin then he was totally stupid, especially if he intended to shoot him (as some people say), it would have made a lot more sense to just hold him at gun point (if he insisted on a confrontation, which you shouldn't do if you are on neighborhood watch) while waiting for the cops. Either way there is one person dead, and another one, even if he is innocent and did not jump on Martin, who's life will never be the same, and who's family are being threatened right now.

And I am a stunt supporter of our military, and thank your son for his service to the country. But again what does it have to do with Zimmerman and Martin? as you say yourself, you're bragging again. My dad was in the Marines, and my grand-father was a soldier who fought during WW2, should I brag about that?

Heck yeah brag about your dad and grandpa.. I do.. proud that every male member of my family has served and about half of us girls.. It's our country and we are willing to defend it or to support those who do. I didn't mean to sound as if I was bragging about my son.. but I will every one of them are beautiful.. yep.. the two girls too.. girls are meaner by a long shot though, just saying, the boys will leave the house if the girls get going.. I was try to emphasize that my son is more than capable of taking care of most people in hand to hand, and being young and well trained most likely wouldn't run if confronted, like Tray, anyone of them would stand their ground if they felt they were under attack. Z knew he was armed, Tray didn't and legally that gave Z a position of power and he should have warned Tray. Look it up. If you confront someone for trespass, which is basically what Z was doing according to him, he has to let the "trespasser" know that he is armed. He didn't, and honestly I believe if he would have told T that he was armed this wouldn't have happened.

I think Z went out looking for trouble and when he couldn't handle what got started he panicked and shot the kid, he may not have known it was just a kid, but he took a life and he must be held accountable for his actions.
Research for yourself, don't read the articles read the police reports from this case and those that have been found about Z's past. This is not unusual for him, he seems to like violence, especially with smaller victims, just because charges get dropped doesn't mean it doesn't happen. His dad is a judge and one with real power, do you think he faces the same justice we do.? Honestly?

lol yes I understand that you are proud of them tho :), and yes I'm proud of my dad and grandpa too.

In all honesty upright, I just don't know if Zimmerman, jumped on Martin or if Martin jumped on him, I wasn't there when it happened. I just don't know, and I am not saying this for the sake of argument, it is my sincere belief that we just don't know enough details to be certain either way, and while I think it is extremely sad that a person died, I also think that we shouldn't condemn a guy (and his family considering some people gave their address) with so little knowledge of what really happened. And the fact that his father was a judge doesn't mean that he is guilty (nor that he is not guilty of course), and/or didn't face the same justice as we would, I checked the law in Florida in cases considered self-defense, and it seems it was regular procedure.

As far as a crazy guy with a gun, unfortunately we can never be sure, there is a lot of them who are actual criminals and will shoot people for whatever reason, like those 3 or 4 cold blooded murderers in North Carolina, so it is always better to get away if possible and call 911 as soon as you can. But if there is a confrontation, well you have to do everything you can to defend yourself, that's all you can do, and hope the agressor is not armed, with a gun or knife or anything else. On the bright side, if this ever happens to your kids, they might be able to disarm him/her.

And of course, if Zimmerman is declared guilty, he should face the consequences, just as anyone else.

Hopefully, no matter what the outcome is, this will be a lesson for everyone who is on neighborhood watch.

I agree with you, but I am skeptical of someone who has been charged multiple times of violent attacks against ex-girlfriends, an officer of the law, resisting arrest, and others. One or two when someone is young is one thing, but when it keeps repeating even in adulthood I have to question that person's reliability, and just how they keep getting away with it.

As for those who posted his family and friends addresses, I think they should be brought up on conspiracy to incite damage and physical harm charges. They were effectively hiring people to harass and assault innocent people.

p.s. I can't believe I typed "stunt" instead of staunch lol.

Anyways ... I agree that he's not an angel, but he's also done some good things. Note that Martin was not exactly an angel either tho. But either way we will surely learn more details in the future, and personally I prefer not to assume anything, eventho I have opinions like everyone else.

And I agree with you about the ones who posted his family and friends addresses. I think the medias share some responsibility too, considering how they manipulated the public opinion by showing pictures of Zimmerman from 2005, looking as tough as they come, and Martin when he was about 13 year old (while in his recent pictures he is acting tough, showing his gold teeth, his tattoos, and the finger), and also editing the 911 sound files to make Zimmerman sound as racist as possible. But surely, if there is a trial and/or investigation, it won't be based on any of that, just on facts.

Anna that wasn't Trayvon Martin who was shot in that photo with the gold teeth and gangsta gear... That was a kid from Chicago with the same name.. I had to prove to some guy that there are literally a hundred other Trayvon Martins out there...lol do people search...lol The new photos of this Trayvon are of him in his football uniform and one with his baby brother and his principle. You hear a lot of negative stuff about why he was kicked out of school but according to the interview with the principle it wasn't for violence or drugs. No specifics but then that is how it works.

It's getting late here so I am out, nice to meet you. I have a housefull for the weekend since Easter is here. We have moved since the last time they were all home but they still found us.. I think they have my refrigerator low jacked, or the stove.. I was down to 2 at home...lol funny part is 3 showed up today and they all brought tv's and play station 3's... now each extra bedroom has 2 kids and a tv and they are killing each other..lol at least this way I am not on my way to ER with someone needing stitches.

Good night God Bless.

Ah see that's exactly why we shouldn't assume. And lol about the house full, have a good weekend. And nice to meet you too upright.

Good night and God bless you too.

One of the first updated photos released by Martin's parents

http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/trayvon-martin-17_340x454.jpg

other very obvious pics of the same person.

http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thecutline/trayvon-martin-drudge.jpg

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width_scaled/hash/0f/dc/0fdc07b361235abf68a23e00678fa2a7.jpg

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Photo_on_2010-06-17_at_16.05__2_DC.jpg

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon_steroetype.jpg

Followed by his twitter information, not to put too fine a point on it.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

I'm sure a lot of you would just love for this not to be the case but it is, confirmed over and over again, this and the fact that he was suspended from school for drugs makes it clear that your boy was a thug after all.

Actually take time and read his twitter account and it isn't hard to figure it out, the real problem is so many of you believed that pack of lies feed to you by his parents, their lawyers, "activist", politicians and liberal media that now you don't want to accept the truth. Even after all three media outlets admitted to the fact that their first reports were bogus you all refuse to admit it, ABC with the video, NBC the 911 tape and CNN with the racial slur. Even now you know this is the exact same thing as the Duke Lacrosse case but will deny it to the bitter end.

It probably would have been better if Zimmerman had said, "I panicked, and I made a terrible mistake. Also,when I decided to follow Trayvon on foot, I should have taken my gun out of the holster and put it in the glove compartment. Also, I see now why Neighborhood Watch prohibits carrying a gun on watch. Once I decided to go on Neighborhood Watch that night instead of continuing on to the Target store, I should have put my gun in the glove compartment. I realize that Trayvon might have considered me dangerous due to my following him since I was dressed in the clothes I was. I am so very sorry."

Those aren't the picture I saw of a kid with blinged out teeth wearing a white hat sideways and no shirt doing gangsta hand signs. Though they are the first I have seen with the gold teeth, but the kid from Chicago had his uppers done and you could see his ribs. Thanks for the new pics though.. But they don't make him a bad kid, plenty of kids have those fake teeth covers and even my own sons have pictures of themselves flipping the bird, even one during their prom pics. I am not happy about it but they did do it.. Do they deserve to be shot for it? Get a grip.

One piece of video or photos that have yet to turn up are the one's of Martin at the 7-11, surprised some news agency hasn't got those yet, there might not be any but in this day and age I haven't been in one that doesn't have a camera.

upright- did you take the time to read his twitter feed, maybe not full fledged gangsta but at the very least a wangsta ( wont to be gangsta )

I have a question though, if this is so one sided in everyone's minds that Zimmerman was completely wrong and Trayvon was completely innocent then explain this.

1. It was 3 weeks after the shooting before his parents went public, at that point they already had the lawyer, activist and some politicians on board.

2. If Trayvon was such a good kid then why close out his twitter page, Facebook and try and seal his school records. Try and remove all current photos of him from public access, they missed the fact that several local media outlets already had all of that, and ONLY put out 4-5 year old photos of him along side a 5 year old pic of Zimmerman.

3. Why when asked on National TV did his parents and their lawyer LIE, again on National TV about Trayvon's suspension from school, WHY LIE, they have done this several times, and when the truth came out all they had to say was that they were just trying to destroy his repetition, NO he did that himself and they lied about it which only made it worse. Why not be upfront and honest from the very start, so he wasn't perfect OK who is, but covering it up and LYING about it makes it so much worse.

4. When this all started it was portrayed by his parents, their lawyers, the civil rights activist and some local state and federal politicians as a white/black race crime. Even now in this very story they continue to refer to Zimmerman as a bi-racial Latino, or half white half Hispanic, the very same news agencies that have never ever called Obama half white half black or bi-racial black.

5. To inflame the masses 3 different new agencies have put out stories that they themselves have had to admit were wrong, 1. NBC's 911 "editing "MISTAKE"" 2. CNN's enhanced audio of 911 call for racial slur, only to re-re-enhance it only to say that he 100% definitely did not say the slur 3. ABC releases police station video, big out rage from everyone, family, Lawyers, Activist even politicians saying that they are 100% sure Zimmerman has no injuries, only to have video enhanced and oops now injuries are clearly there. Here is the common denominator in all of these, it was at least one week after the first release and when they went back to "correct" their "MISTAKE", but by then everyone had made up their minds. There are people even now on this very thread that will say that Zimmerman had no head injuries even after watching the updated video. Three different family members who are lawyers all say Zimmerman has a REAL good case against at least NBC and their editor who did it, hope he sues their pants off.

6. Where is outrage for NBPP reward offer for Zimmerman dead or alive, last time I checked that was called solicitation of murder for hire and that is illegal, Mr. Holder it is a FEDERAL CRIME, DO SOMETHING. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Solicitation+of+murder

It gets harder and harder to believe the Martin camp when this is how they have conducted themselves, not saying Zimmerman can't be guilty of a crime but this does raise serious doubts.

Robbob, you're right in part in my opinion, problem is, his parents and lawyers did this not him, everyone is condemning him for their actions. He didn't say "I'm perfect" and as far as his school records being sealed they are sealed no matter what. There has to be a court order to get a child's school records even for parents. Same with medical, judicial, and mental health records. It's called HIPPA and it is Federal law so if those media outlets have those records as you claim then they are breaking the law and those who gave the records or spoke of them to the media did too.

HIPPA only covers medical, not school, and being it is a state funded institution they most likely got the school records under FIA freedom of information act, or if the police were involved then through a FIA request though them, and at least two of his suspensions had police involvement, the drug baggy and the stolen jewelry one.

I still stand by my belief if this wasn't self defense then his family and their handlers wouldn't have done a cover up and LIED on National TV multiple times.

Seriously how much spin can these people keep up before they can't keep a straight face, I mean even Al Simpleton, Sharpalton what ever has backed of from this case some, knowing it is just a matter of time before their house of cards comes down and he wants to be as far away from this as he can when it does.

it's like

It was a clear case of white on black hate, oh he's hispanic, so he is a white hispanic that proves it.

See 911 tape clearly show he targeted blacks, oh it was edited by NBC, doesn't matter he is still white, oh sorry forgot the hispanic part my bad.

See CNN enhanced tape proves he is racist cause he used coon, oh re-re-enhanced tape clearly proves he didn't say coon, SO HE MUST HAVE THOUGHT IT RIGHT

See ABC video proves Zimmerman was lying, the video clearly shows no injuries what so ever 100% sure he had no injuries, oh cleared up video shows injuries, so what they don't look that bad, that don't prove nothing.

All I have seen from the Trayvon Martin camp and their supporters are nothing but lies and cover ups.

How can anyone who supports Martin still look themselves in the mirror knowing that most of what has been put out to condemn Zimmerman by Martins side has been proven false.

Well said.

I have to say that when people make assumptions about a race of people it's disturbing. For the record, I am African-American and I do not like Al or Jesse. They DO NOT speak for us as a whole. I too think that they are media hounds looking for the spotlight. Whenever they do get invovled in anything, I cringe. These men do have followers and that's okay. Rush, Bill and Hannity have followers and that is okay too. People can chose to follow whatever leader they feel speaks for them. I just want it to be known that not all "blacks" support Al and Jesse, so it would be nice if people stop saying that. They are self appointed "Black Leaders" like Zimmerman was a "self appointed" neighborhood watch captain. I too wish they would sit down and shut up.

Thank you! Stop associating Jackson Sharpton and the NAACP with being heroes in our communities. We are not dumb and ignorant and we see these entities for what they are. Jackson and NAACP hasn't been anyone to look up to since MLK Sharpton is eccentric. I'm an African American also and I try to live colorblind. So I would be as upset as I am now for a young unarmed man of any race being killed by a grown man of any race. Let's be realistic look at the size of that boy against Zimmerman and tell me he couldn't defend himself without a weapon!

I do not ever remember telling Jackson, Sharpton or the NAACP to speak for me. I do not remember voting them to be my voice. As a matter of fact none of them have never done a damn thing for me. If it was not for Martin Luther King they would not be around anyway.

Wow, you were there and saw Trayvon jump Zimmerman? No one knows what happens so lets wait until the investigators finish their jobs before we persecute anyone!

None of this ever happens if Zimmerman doesn't arm himself and then track down a kid walking along and confront him. He is guilty as sin, and he should be, will be, charged.

It has been well over a month and still no charges against Zim. What's up with that ?

Big Jim,

There aren't many people who would want to prosecute this case in light of the evidence that exists (along with some that probably hasn't been reported that could be damning in proving guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt").

It is better to let this case fade into obscurity instead of a not guilty verdict resulting in riots.

Ray Butt,

None of this would have happened if Trayvon Martin was living in his own neighborhood.
None of this would have happened if Trayvon didn't go to the store for snacks.
None of this would have happened if Trayvon didn't allegedly attack Zimmerman.
None of this would have happened if a hurricane had hit Sanford.
None of this would have happened if Trayvon's mother never had a child.

SO FREAKING WHAT? These are ridiculous excuses I've made and your excuse is no better.

Zimmerman did nothing illegal by owning a gun and following Martin. There were robberies in the neighborhood, you know.... Strange-acting black kid matching description of previous burglars....

If Zimmerman did something illegal that could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, he'd already be charged. Instead the prosecution punted to the grand jury.

I think it is about 50/50 they indict him. I think it is about 95/5 he is found not guilty.

Maybe it is different here in Canada. Of course I do understand that we know nothing about the kind of racism people have to deal with everyday in the US so I certainly wont comment there. But here - to arrest someone at the scene of the crime just takes *probable cause* and many a lawyer here has commented that a dead teen at the hands of another is absolutely *probable cause.* He would be arrested and given a fair trial and the courts would decide if he is guilty or not guilty. Of course we dont have that *stand your ground* law here either. I am not too impressed with that.

Amen!

None of this ever happens if Zimmerman doesn't arm himself and then track down a kid walking along and confront him.

According to the recorded call Zimmerman made to the police, he says he lost sight of Martin, pretty hard to track him down and confront him if he no longer knows where he is.

According to Martin's girlfriend, she hard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him, to which Zimmerman responded what are you doing here, at that point she believes the phone was dropped. This confrontation is not part of the recorded conversation; therefore will probably be inadmissable as it is heresay.

Whether Zimmerman again gained a line of sight with Martin is unknown. Whether Martin doubled back or not is unknown. What is known is that Martin started the verbal confrontation.

There are a lot of different scenarios that could be painted surrounding this situation, reality is, the only person who knows what happened is Zimmerman.

SHar-2704637

I respect your opinion and I understand that there are certain gray areas to the "stand you ground" policy, but, if I, as a concealed carry holder, get confronted by a drug crazed thug, what other choice have I to defend myself. being disabled and middle aged, I am not going to out run or out power him, I can, however, give him a good .45 ACP ventilation. I believe this is the core intent of the SYG law. I suspect in Zimmerman's case, he can stick to his story that Trayvon was the agressor after he (Zimmerman) disctontinued following Martin. If this goes to court, it is going to be very hard to prove the contrary.

Maria-

One huge hole in your theory is Zimmerman said he was attacked while he was walking back to his vehicle, not while he was getting into it....Also, a broken nose and cuts do not always require a trip to the hospital.

When you just killed someone and are claiming self defense and your ENTIRE claim is solely based on your injuries then yes, said injuries do in fact require a trip to the hospital and mass amounts of documented evidence to support your claim Otherwise you are completely stupid (in which case you deserve whatever you get for being too stupid to breathe) or you are a liar. I'm going with the latter.

I Am sure Glad you people have all the evidence. You know what happened and the whole chain of events. Let the Grand Jury decide. With all the mumbling that is going on i am beginning to think that zimmerman is a fall guy and maybe the Mayor of Sanford did it or maybe bigfoot did it.

According to Zimmerman his head was being banged on concrete, so hard that he feared for his life. Sorry, Ellis, but that does require a trip to the hospital. Zimmerman's dad went so far to say that his son's head was being banged for at least a minute. That'a a long damn time to have your head hit on concrete!

Once, I fell and hit the back of my head on concrete. I got up very quickly and felt the blood running down my neck immediately. People started saying, OMG you're bleeding and started putting napkins on the wound. I got to the hospital and it was just a small cut that didn't require stitches. However, I had blood down the back of my neck and dress like it was life threatening. Zimmerman should at least have had some blood somewhere on him 30 minutes later. Paramedics do not wipe you down and give you a clean shirt. His self defense story is just that, a story, lie, fabrication, BS!

Actually, paramedics can and do wipe people down. Also, ask any cop if he will put a bleeding man in his patrol car if he can avoid it.

Gary I could not disagree agree more. I study quite a bit of world economics and current events. We actually are one of the least racist countries. the only reason race is such a big deal in this country is becuase every single event that happens between people of diffent colors MUST be a racist event based on certain "leaders".

Peter Jacobs

Money can purchase freedom from justice. That has been proven time and time again

...you are refering to people like OJ Simpson, I presume

also Spike who posted Zimmerman's address on his facebook. for the bounty hunters. it turned out Spike posted the wrong Zimmerman's address on fb and put their life at risk too. Spike needs to be put on the list of those responsible and should be sued. Maybe if the media circus is sued they will act more respectfully next time. Maybe all whites can be part of a clas saction suit for being called a dirty word, "racist".

Don't keep up much huh c? Spike Lee didn't post anything on FB. Of course if you had the smallest of clues, you'd already know that.

Okay, so he posted the address on Twitter...c-893481 was a slight bit off there.

c-893481

If Zimmerman is not charged, or if he is found not guilty, a libel lawyer is going to get rich off of this, not to mention Zimmerman.

Wow wish you had been around fifty/sixty years ago to fight the cause! Oh but you did say MODERN society so I guess it was okay for historic society.

George,....From where did you get your law degree ? Like Sharpton, Jackson, Lee, Barre and many in the media and black community, you have already tried and convicted Zimmerman based on speculation and hearsay, thought we did away with that KKK form of justice in the 1960s..... Vigilante justice is not acceptable in America

Kind of like you Ellis have cleared Zimmerman based on nothing but speculation and hearsay. Hello pot, meet kettle. Didn't quite think that thought through did ya?

Shellie,

Unlike you, I am waiting for all the evidence, or lack of before render an opinion, but I do believe in the notion of innocent until proven guilty. Don't you ?

Shellie, where do you see Ellis "clearing" Zimmerman? It's absolutely frightening to me that people who call for the facts to be known BEFORE passing judgment are looked upon as the enemy. I seriously hope you never sit on a jury.

Uh........ Here

Ellis Baumgarner

Do not think Zimmerman will need the defense money once the local and FBI investigation is completed. At the worst Zimmerman will be charged with some gun violation law or involuntary manslaughter.......The ones who should be worried about a defense fund is Sharpton, Lee, Barre, MSNBC and other media outlets who twisted the facts and put Zimmerman's life in danger..............

It is time to make 'trial by media' expensive

Rosanne Barr did the correct Zimmerman address on her Facebook or Twitter accounts. Blame her if the Zimmerman's get killed by some bounty hounters.

Forget about race and age... let's stick with the indisputable facts.

One man had a concealed gun, one man had ice tea and skittles. The two had some sort of fight and the guy with the gun kills the guy without the gun.

I would have to conclude that the guy with the gun had committed murder, based on these facts alone. The investigator wanted to charge the man with the gun but was prevented by politics.

The "Stand your ground" law is a political attack on minorities. It should be called the "Shoot First, Ask Later" law.

The Florida legislators who enacted this law are the true problem. Martin and Zimmerman are mere pawns in their political game.

The gun lobby is crying all the way to the bank. The KKK has re-branded itself as a "Neighborhood Watch" group. But they are still really just racist vigilantes.

If I lived in Florida I would never again vote for any politician who thinks that more guns is a good thing, that concealed weapons are a good thing, or the Shoot First law is a good thing.

Get rid of the corrupt politicians (they take bribes from the gun lobby) and purge this law from every state in the nation.

Guns no longer serve the purpose they did in 1815 and earlier. A citizen's posse with guns and rifles can not stop a military invasion any more. So the militia clause is just a historic anachronism and a legal loophole that caused death, damage and suffering.

Outlaw guns. Period. No one can make the case that they do anything but kill people.

Hey Sic n Tired Are you just really stupid or have you not read The Constitution.. There is a little admendment in there says something about THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS!!! This country was won by the common man forming an army and using GUNS!! If some 3rd world toilet decides to invade this country, yes the military will be there, but while they organize a counter attack it is going to be the people like me (responsible gun owners.) who will keep em busy!!! Furthermore in the even a major catastrophe occurs it will be the gun owners who are going to be the ones who eat.. (We can go and hunt for our dinner.) Little known to alot of people is when Katrina hit Louisiana the idiots in New Orleans could not fend for themselves, but the men and women who lived in the surrounding areas who did hunt had no problem because they knew how to live off the land. The right to keep and bear arms is so deeply en-grained into our society there will never be a ban on guns.. Sorry for you

Mr. Gary Fields,

I do appreciate your willingness to protect this country but keep in mind that not every gun owner is as responsible as you and I. Also, I'm not sure how you would be able to handle someone possessing RPGs (Rocket Propelled Grenades) and other heavy artillery if we were ever invaded. It's not like the colonial days where the opposition only had simple muzzle loaded rifles. Good luck with that!

As far as the military force goes, every branch has teams called the QRF (Quick Reactionary Force) ready to take on an invasion and limit its advancement. On top of that, technology has drastically changed over the years. As you may have read of situations overseas, they have things called drones ready to deploy on a few minutes notice. A counter attack is organized a lot quicker than you may imagine.

I believe that gun laws should originate from the Federal gov't and not the gov't of a State. I.E. FL's law makes it simple enough to cause bodily harm without the worries of severe repercussions. We do know that too much involvement from the Federal gov't can be dangerous but some States tend t pass ridiculous laws that do more harm than good. After all, our Constitution did originate from common men who assembled to fom the federal government that now exists and its power derives from the Citizens that vote individuals into positions of authority. This incident is unfortunately one of the many reasons for my opinion. Someone pleading self-defense should be thoroughly investigated and held for questioning no matter their background or family's history. If the officers and the CSI personnel failed to do their job at the scene, they should be held responsible just as Mr. Zimmerman should. The final decision should be decided through the justice system and not based on opinions. Individuals possessing political power and abusing it for their personal gains have corrupted this country for far too long, which to me seems to be the reason that the suspect here has been released for the time being. I am grateful that some of these politicians are caught and prosecuted.

You make no sense on the situation that occurred in New Orleans stating that they could not fend for themselves. The fact is that their city was flooded, to include any guns that were there. What the heck would you be able to do with a soaked gun that misfired or even a working gun for that matter. There's a difference when you live in a city compared to the country-side. In a city you will never have a deer right at your back door like you would in the backwoods. You would have had a better chance of catching fish with your bare hands than hunting in N.O. Common sense my friend. I am glad that guys like you exist in America. You make this country's population diverse and worth protecting. LOL!

Freedom of Speech is this Country's greatest asset; Not The Right To Bear Arms! Without it, your opinion would not exist. God Bless America!!!

Hey there Chief.. After reading your response to my comments, I have the following response. Handling RPGs and heavy artillery with small arms is not practical, but not impossible.. Since RPGs are essentially a man carried and fired weapon a simple solution is to take them out from a distance once discovered, and as for artillery tha depends entirely on what type and what kinds of weapons you are armed with.. Certainly you are not going to take on a tank with a .45. Now on to QRF and drones. As far as QRF goes it still will take time for any response regardless of who goes in.. Depending on where we are attacked from it could take up to 24 hrs for any kind of counter attack to commence.. Drones.. Well they are effective for recon and surgical strikes.. Air Force and Marine fighter planes would be on scene and extremely effective... However people such as myself would be the ones who would have to at least try and slow down an attack, and act as spotters on the ground. As for my comments on the New Orleans situation.. Do you honestly believe that any life long hunter such as myself or these folks who actually hunt and fish for their food would not know how to keep their weapons and ammo out of the water? Keep in mind that if you had the kind of warning these people had, there was more then enough time to get things locked down and water tight. As for freedom as speech.. I'm absolutely sure that if they were to take away our weapons then it would only be a matter of time till freedom of speech went away. Thankfully we do live in a country where 1 document has guaranteed our freedoms, and if we allow even 1 to be taken away then it is only a matter of months before we are living under martial law. Just so you know... You get to the outskirts of N.O. it is all Forrest and you can find a deer, or squirrel, or.. Well you get it.. I do not trust either state or federal government to make any kind of gun control laws. It has been a practice lately to try and outlaw weapons such as hand guns and certain calibers of hunting rifle's that are deemed "Too Powerful" by people that do not have any understanding of the subject. Before you ask, no I do not believe that automatic weapons should be in the hands of common civilians, but given the problems of our society even though those are currently banned by federal law it seems that street gangs and other criminals are the only ones to have them.. Sad but true. Just like if there by some illegal action we loose our right to keep and bear arms, then only criminals will possess them.. In that case I would become a criminal, because I will not give up my weapons.

@Chief - in response to your assertion that you will never have deer in the backyard in a city; up until a few months ago I lived in a city of 65,000 and regularly had deer, rabbits, ducks and geese in my backyard. I have a cousin who lives in a city of 60,000 and he regularly has multiple deer and assorted wildlife in his yard.

grumpy,....The original report said that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman and they exchanged words before Trayvon punched him in the face. No report has said Zimmermans back was turned....Let the investigators figure it out.

@ grumpy_jon I can't believe there still people as stupid as you on the internet. Do a simple search and you would find out that Traythug Martin approached Zimmerman from behind and asked him if he had a problem. Zimmerman had turned around and said no. Can you understand that or do you need me to use the Crayon font for you?

Guessing you have never seen a person "sucker punched" before?

Funny thing is, when you punch someone hard, in the face, you bruise your knuckles and tear up skin on your fingers. Also, the person receiving the punch gets a bruise in the shape of the fist that stuck him.

Coroner said martins knuckles showed no sign of a fight. Police video and subsequent photos reveal that Zimmerman's face had no bruises in the size or shape of Martin's fist.

The evidence seems to prove that there was no punch at all.

They havent released the autopsy report yet. Another red herring.

I guess sic n tired has never been in a good brawl.. I personally have never bruised my knuckles in a fight.. No bruises in the shape of a fist either.. Maybe a black eye or a swollen jaw or cheek.. It seems that you simply have no clue of what the heck you are talking about today.. Sorry for you again :-(

Ellis, try reading the quote that I blocked before you contradict the police report.

Oh, Really, reported as offensive, name-calling, and just bad manners.

Orguy, I saw a guy get sucker punched up close and personal; it was me, and from the front, not the back. Never saw somebody reach around a head to punch a person in the face. Unless your arms are about 6 feet long, I can't see how it can be done (the math doesn't work...test your hypothesis first, please).

Sic-n-tired, I have to agree with Gary. I pounded a guys face into the frozen dirt before and didn't bruise my knuckles (that I can remember; it was over 40 years ago). Plus, the whole side of his face was black and blue; otherwise, no bruises.

Maria-2595762 loves Zim but only half as much as she should. Loves the hispanic side but hates the white side.

Maria,

Please stick with the facts, no state I know of has a law where one must accept an ambulance ride to the hospital for a head injury..........Several years back I was broadsided by a young lady while she was making an illegal left turn, I busted open my lip and hit my head against the door frame causing quite a bump, but I refused to go to the hospital and signed a waiver releasing the EMTs from liability.

but I refused to go to the hospital and signed a waiver releasing the EMTs from liability.

That indicates that the EMT's generally make the call as to whether or not someone is automatically taken to the hospital for head injuries. Why would they rely on the sensibilities of a head injured person without a waiver?

Also for the ambulance to be cancelled meant someone decided that Zimmerman's injuries ( if any ) were not serious enough to require a hospital visit, which contradicts his claim of threat to his life as reason for the shooting.

These are facts:

1) Zimmerman initiated the entire sequence of events, not Martin.

2) Zimmerman profiled Martin

3) Martin had a right to be where he was

4) Zimmerman broke neighborhood watch protocol by a) confronting Martin, b) carrying a gun to the confrontation

sorry to disappoint you Maria but the EMT doesn't have that choice unless he is unconscious You, Me, Him or Who ever can say no to the trip to any hospital. You cannot be forced as it is considered under law as Kidnapping. EMT's don't get court orders to force you to a hospital. The Police didn't arrest him they took him in for questioning . Now Please squelch this and merely say weather you are willing to pay for his defense voluntarily or thru your taxes

Sorry, but you can refuse to be taken to a hospital via a ambulance. Also, you can refuse medical treatment UNLESS it's life threatening and are unable to respond to the first responders or EMT's.

Sorry, but you can refuse to be taken to a hospital via a ambulance. Also, you can refuse medical treatment UNLESS it's life threatening and are unable to respond to the first responders or EMT's.

All true.

But what does that say about either the EMTs or Zimmerman's assessment of his injuries at the time. Life threatening? Nope.

cul, he doesn't have to let it become life threatening as you say, if he allowed it to go that far the law wouldn't be any good. This I'm sure you could understand. As he would more than likely had received the fatal injuries, you know head being busted against the ground thing. This is a good law and if used properly can and will reduce the crime rates in a lot of areas. Victims; can stop being victims.

If the investigation proves his innocence, you guys will say the feds are crooked too!

cul, he doesn't have to let it become life threatening as you say,

What I'm saying is that Zimmerman provoked the entire situation and could have defused it by identifying himself from a distance and that his original claim to serious injury is BS.

To use the law you are supposed to feel in danger of losing your life or suffer great personal harm. You generally can't shoot me because I punched you in a normal world. With this law you can.

This is a good law and if used properly can and will reduce the crime rates in a lot of areas

This is a horrible law and has already tripled the death rate in Florida in the case of people using it. It has not reduced the crime rate in any way. It is even being used by gang members to off each other.

It plays in a totally paranoid view of the world and serves no one but gun rights folk and arms manufacturers. Violent crime has been going down for two decades and in that light this law is disconnected from reality as are the people who are clamoring for more of it.

.

Your fact is absolutely not a fact. The fact is that Martin saw what he thought was a suspicious looking person based who fit reports surrounding recent break-ins in his neighborhood, he didn't profile him as a black person, he profiled him as someone who fit the profile. When asked what race the person was Zimmerman responded, saying he thought he was black, then after Martin turned towards him he confirmed with the dispathcer (not a police officer) that he was indeed black.

The fact is that Zimmerman was told he didn't need to follow Martin, not that he shouldn't follow Martin.

The fact is that, according to Martin's girlfriend Martin started the confrontation by asking Zimmerman why he was following him.

You don't know that Zimmerman started a fight then killed Martin when it wasn't going his way. You don't know that Zimmerman's account isn't true; he may have been walking back to his vehicle when Martin approached him and asked him why he was following him. You don't know what happened after Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there. Maybe Zimmerman pulled his gun, to which Martin responded to by punching him. Maybe Martin punched him for asking him why he was there. Maybe Martin was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the ground, maybe he did see and go for the gun. Maybe they were struggling over the gun and it went off by accident.

You don't know that Trayvon wasn't out to kill when the confrontation started. You don't know that Zimmerman was out to kill.

Whether either of them were "standing his ground" will be up to the police to determine.

I say your version is closer to the truth. But a lot of people (nameless group) doesn't want to believe that. blame part of it on the pictures of the kid when he was 11 years old.

He should have waited until his brains were leaking out of his skull before defending himself?

LOL. Your argument is invalid in a court of law. Only a perceived threat can be considered life-threatening...

3 people with baseball bats that don't even touch you before you shoot your attackers is justified under the law.

WilliamJenkins_III

He should have waited until his brains were leaking out of his skull before defending himself?\

What brains?

Zimmerman's idiocy is why a 17 yr old is dead.

Zimmerman provoked all of it from the outset. Couple his personal idiocy and zealotry with the idiocy and zealotry of the FL Stand Your Ground Law (which I am sure you wholeheartedly support, given the "wisdom" your previous comments so clearly demonstrate) and this needless death is not even surprising.

Funny we havent seen any recent pictures of Martin, only the 5 years old pics of the apple cheeked little Trayvon.

Funny we havent seen any recent pictures of Martin, only the 5 years old pics of the apple cheeked little Trayvon.

And your point is?

Steve-2081387

Funny we havent seen any recent pictures of Martin, only the 5 years old pics of the apple cheeked little Trayvon.

Where have you been? There are many recent pictures such as the one where he is on a horse.

the most recent photo of little tavon is over three years old - dont look for the one of him in his thug get up and nice gold grill on shills like msnbc, nbc, cbs, cnn, and abc - they're too busy shoveling sh&t to report any truth

I keep waiting for the picture of little treyvon in his diaper

You have really got to be kidding me. A website to raise money for George Zimmerman's defense. That is unheard of. Anyone that choses to raise money to defend someone that killed someone in 'cold-blood' has sick minds. Zimmerman chose to commit the crime he did, and if he is man enough to do the crime, then he should be man enough to do the time. Zimmerman should fess-up to his carelessness and save the NATION from whooping on his a&&.

Zimmerman is the new NRA poster child, vigilante wannabes are afraid that guns and flawed "stand your ground" law will go on trial too.

Pretty clear now just who it is trying to cash in on this.

Of course one has to wonder if the FBI has not been ordered to find something to implicate Zimmerman as guilty. In other words objective investigating is out the window now. Sad that here in America we are supposed to be presumed innocent until proved guilty beyond a doubt, and this man is being made guilty to please a mob and not because evidence suggest it. Oh, the media evidence that has been spin doctored says he is guilty but none of us know the real truth.

The FBI is investigating.......as has been widely reported. However, murder, manslaughter, etc. are not federal crimes, and the FBI would have no role in investigating them in this case. The FBI is investigating whether or not there is a case for charging Zimmerman with violating Martin's civil rights, which is a Federal crime.

but anyone who doesn't see that some outright and some really subtle racial stereotyping/bias is still happening is missing part of this picture

Not much of the racial thing is subtle, most of the right wing/hater comments on here reek of it.

Other than funeral expenses what do TRayvons' parents plan to do with all the money they are making from merchandising his name?? Zimmermans family is raising money to defend George should he go to trial and in the meantime legal representation is costly. The family and lots of folks across the nation have been demanding justice. Along wih that comes Zimmermans right to legal representation and he has to get it some way. If people chose to give him donations to help defend his life and liberty that is just fine by me. Their money to do what they want with it. What are Trayvons parents looking to gain?? Haen't heard of them starting a scholarship fund in Trayvons name or any other charitable contributing plans. So maybe their going to pay their bills, take a trip?? Go party??