Virginias unemployment rate is about 5 percent 3 points below the national average

Agreed, tw1sted. I live in a "practice" area for Naval Station Norfolk and two fighter jets rattled my windows yesterday. Sometimes I wonder if it's the last thing I'll hear before the harps begin to play.

My prayers go out to everyone involved. And PTOWN is correct; Virginia is tied for 8th lowest unemployment in the nation.

Well put, tw1sted.

I concur.

Trying to reach my grandson and his wife, they just moved into their apartment over the weekend. Both of them are in the Navy and newlyweds....

Keeter - I lived for 2 years under the flight path for C-5s coming out of Dover AFB. When they turned and decelerated it sounded like they were about to fall out of the sky. Massive planes overhead several times a day. You got used to it.

Indepundit:

I live in an apartment and have been employeed the whole time I've been here. I even have a job with benefits!! Go figure!

The is a horrible accident for any and all involved. Thoughts are with them.

JanG, I hope that they are both safe. Please come back to update us when you know something.

@fatibel: If I lived near Dover AFB, I'd understand. I'm about 100 miles from Naval Station Norfolk and am not paranoid by nature--but I always wonder if fighter jets are being sent out for a reason other than "practice". That was the somewhat-veiled point of my original post.

I live here in Va Beach and while most adults were probably at work, today was the first day of spring break for local schools and it's rather chilly out so kids were likely at home... No news on fatalaties but a few casualties have been taken to Beach Gen.

this has ZERO to do with unemployment. can you take the political fight out of it for TWO SECONDS!!!?????

Unfortunately, VB School were out today (early start on spring break and teacher work day). I pray noone is seriously injured.

It's good Friday, lots of people were probably home today...including school children, I pray that no one was seriously hurt or killed.

Just talked with my daughter in MN she hasn't heard from her son or his wife as yet. They both work in Oceana where the plane took off so hopefully they were at work. My grandson is a damage control specialist and his wife is a jet mechanic. I'm assuming at this point that both are fine.

My father was career USAF and I was career USAF, seen this scenario more times then I care to count. Hopefully, everyone is okay and the damage is just material.

Jan, good luck on finding your loved ones.

I am still hoping that no more bad news of deaths come from this. And am amazed that even on my post wishing the best for all and asking if politics needs to be brought into this cause it does everywhere else can be left away as we worry about out fellow humans, and not only do people do it but in replies to my original post. Very sad guys. very sad.

Live in the area and the news is calling it the Good Friday Miracle...at this point, 5 ppl are being treated at the local hospital and from the way the news is calling it, it sounds like alot of jet fuel was dumped before the crash and some of these ppl may have been hit with jet fuel, but apparently no deaths at this time.....whoopeee! Praise God!

@Jan Oceana is fine...this happened right after takeoff and was a mile or so away from the base. Traffic is gonna be really bad tonight though!

I am hoping the pilots did everything they could do to avoid hitting a populated area before they ejected to safety.

Geeze people don't be so sensitive. Indepundit didn't say EVERYONE living in an apartment is poor and has no job but his/her point is valid. There are in general more unemployed people living in apartments than houses, and Virginia beach does indeed have relatively high unemployment. It's not a very prosperous area. Besides, this isn't even the point. Lets hope nobody or very few people were injured!

Believerof, they mentioned unemployment as a reason why more people might have been home in the apartment building where the crash occured not because of politics, keep up or don't comment.

i'm relieved that the two pilots are ok but my main concern right now is for those that live in those apartments. i pray that they are fine as well. i'm sadden at the knowledge that they have lost their homes. i don't know if there was a malfunction with the aircraft but i feel that some of those pilots fly those planes too low. i was on vacation in blythe, ca and those planes flew so low that i could feel the vibrations from the engine.

I am hoping the pilots did everything they could do to avoid hitting a populated area before they ejected to safety.

That is what I was wondering. This same kind of thing happened in Houston, Texas about 50 years ago. The pilot was over a residential area and did not eject and was able to crash the plane in a field. He died, but was hailed as a hero for not allowing the plane to crash into the residential neighborhood.

God Bless These families during this horrific accident.This is not a matter of political policy or persons nor is it about politics. God Bless those who don't see the real picture. The People of this country need to come together not argue.

That is what I was wondering. This same kind of thing happened in Houston, Texas about 50 years ago. The pilot was over a residential area and did not eject and was able to crash the plane in a field. He died, but was hailed as a hero for not allowing the plane to crash into the residential neighborhood.

I mean it is possible they lost all control over the plane, but it is also possible self preservation kicked in and they pulled those handles a little quick. But yes, their duty is to avoid the innocents on the ground, even if that means they have to die in the process.

Maureen, must you be a complete idiot?

Maureen-2162031 - The pilots ejected about 2 seconds before the jet hit the ground. The jet was on fire and going down. What do you think they could have done? As for 911 plane that crashed in PA it was the terrorist who drove the plane into the ground not the passengers.

Maureen-2162031

Did we read the same article? The article I read stated that the cause of the crash was not known. That means they do not really know at this time if the pilots bailed to soon or not. Try reading the article before you post. Don't make assumptions because you know what happens when you assume.

Maureen....you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You have ZERO idea what these pilots did and to make an assumption like that just shows the content of your character. Why is it that every post I read of yours is so full of distasteful comments? You must have a completely miserable life...dang shame.

I too wondered about the old stories about pilots staying with the plane, but shouldn't jump to call them cowards and I would never want to criticize at them for staying alive. it may be for instance there was no chance to get to a field.

Maureen, the crash of that F/A 18 was inevitable, based on the comment by the gentleman on base who witnessed the take off and "heard the crash 2 seconds later." The pilots likely did everything they could to steer that aircraft away from any populated area, but with only 2 seconds to do so, I can only imagine it was out of their control. You've never flown a fighter jet, I would imagine. Your comments about those two pilots are premature at best and in extraordinarily bad taste at worst. They hit ONE building when there are literally tens of thousands of homes in that general area. I'd say they did their best to minimize the impact, and I'd also say they ejected with only seconds to spare because that is their protocol. Seriously, something has to be very askew in your thought process to say such preposterous things about something you know nothing about. I'll be in prayer for you and that cold dead heart of yours as well.

Being that VB is on the coast, my first thought is, is it possible that the pilots could have steered the aircraft toward the ocean first before bailing out? Knowing this is a populated area, I'd like to think that, my own self preservation would be the last thing on my mind and getting the plane down somewhere somewhat safe first. I just hope and pray that the casualties on the ground are minimal.

Maureen - no conclusions yet. NO ONE knows what exactly happened yet.

So I just booked a vaca less than a week ago for Virginia beach and read this. What a tragedy, just hope everyone is ok.

Unless you are in that situation, you don't know what you would do. Navy pilots are anything but "cowardly." Sometimes being judgemental will come back to bite you.

Keep these planes away from heavily populated areas!!

Commercial airports have little choice. The military has choice.

Eisenhower was a prophet.

I don't care about the politics involved...just the facts. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Virginia unemployment rate is 5.7%, which ranks 8th overall.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

I hope that settles that.

THIS is why they shouldn't be allowed to do drills over populated areas, we have C130's fly over our houses here in Schoharie Valley weekly; with less than 20 feet over our roofs. Its scary when you see something THAT big fly over and feel the wind off the tail. I know they need to do drills and I know they need to gain experience, but seriously; one of these days someone is seriously gonna get hurt or even die. I am happy that they all survived, but its only a matter of time before someone seriously gets hurt. There are other places they can do their drills where people will not get hurt.

PLEASE - GIVE MAUREEN A BREAK! It is probably not her fault that she is an idiot. Try to bring her along slowly in her understanding. If possible.

God bless our military and pray for their families and all in the vicinity of the crash.

Hold up there a little Maureen! Calling anyone cowardly at this point is a bit premature, do you not agree? I don't know how close to all this you live or work, but our military jets tend to move at a pretty good clip, and things can go horribly wrong in the blink of an eye. I see the point you are making here, but lets get some facts of the situation out there before we start pointing fingers at some very well trained, brave members of our fighting forces. My hope now is that we can continue to marvel at the non loss of life in such a horrific situation.

Local news says that the pilot said his wing was on fire...the plane went down just a few miles from the base headed over the oceanfront. Apparently the pilots released the jet fuel so that there would be a smaller fire/explosion, the pilot tried to turn the plane back toward the base, but had only seconds before it crashed. There is way too much building done too close to the base and the fact that this has not happened in about 30 years is amazing....so, Maureen, they ARE heroes and my neighbors and I have all the respect in the world for these brave men and women who serve us so well! WE LOVE US SOME MILITARY HERE IN VIRGINIA BEACH!

BTW- the base was here first, it was the developers who couldn't help themselves building so close to that great ol' big base.

Keep heavily populated areas away from our military bases and training areas that were there long before developers made their bucks. Deal with it or move.

That's like buying a house next to an airport and then whining about noise when you knew it was there before buying.

Maureen-2162031 #1.29 - Fri Apr 6, 2012 2:57 PM EDT said:

"...two cowardly Navy pilots ejected to save themselves, knowing that their jet was going to crash into a populated area and buildings, most assuredly taking lives with it. So, no heros today I guess."

Maureen, you ought to keep uneducated responses to yourself. These pilots have to deal with their lives knowing that a failed plane they were in has obviously killed many though full reports are not in. Adding two more deaths to the fire, those of the pilots, would serve no one. They are trained to stay with the plane until the last possible seconds, yet to eject if there is no further option. Obviously also is that they did just that, since although they were ambulatory, they still needed medical attention, most likely from the low altitude parachute drop of waiting till the last second.

Anyone wanting to see their deaths just to call them heroes is stupid and immature, and usually comes from the mouths of complainers who most likely themselves don't have an ounce of courage to their spines anyways lacking the mental fortitude to possess such since their mouths seem loosely hinged and their lips spout out thoughts before checking their impact with their own brains. Freedom of speech does not resolve one from responsibility for what they say or imply, just refuses the government the action of oppressing free speech.

So when you spout off diatribe, remember...we are all out here to read ignorant comments, but we don't have to swallow them as valid opinions. You should be ashamed of calling these pilots cowards with no informational facts to go on. They may very well have been awarded commendations and medals many times over for valiant service overseas, repudiating any false claim they are cowards because of this one event so what do you know? I am very sure you yourself with staring at the oncoming ground and impact which takes mere split seconds, would have been screaming your lungs out and pissing and crapping your drawers while fumbling for an ejection lever, far sooner than these pilots did when they decided to leave their plane. In such scenarios, flight ops make the mistakes by incorrectly ordering pilots to bases for landing that takes their paths over populated areas, rather than scheduling them a route far safer over open land. Refer to the Navy/Marine crash of the same model F-18 of 2008. That one cost them $17.8 million to the family of the deceased on the ground who were killed in the crash.

I have personally experienced two fighter crashes in close proximity in my life and service, and I outright condemn loose lips like yours, as these incidents never leave the minds, hearts or thoughts of the pilots, some pilots deciding to never fly again or deciding to put a hold on flying for long periods before they do. Obviously, they care more about the deceased than you. The crash itself is a tragedy, the deaths are far greater one, and worse are the loose lips abusing free speech as your's do.

Once again, shame on you and your mouth. You need to "check" yourself (in).

jkatze - pretty sure this military base was there BEFORE the homes were so this is not a valid argument. Also, since car accidents are MUCH more common, you really should be saying that keep cars away from other cars. Absurd.

to all that commented to maureen. thanks i was gonna call her out on that comment myself and my computer had a fit

I would hazard a guess that some of the first things the officers asked was if everyone on the ground was OK. These men take what they do VERY seriously. They know all too well the damage these planes can cause when something goes wrong. They do NOT eject unless they have no other choice. That only a couple of buildings were hit sure makes it look like the plane more or less just fell out of the sky with little or no real power.

Gee, you can actually see parts of the plane, I guess this is what a plane crash is suppose to look like

Here's better reporting with pics from the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126223/Virginia-beach-plane-crash-F-18-hits-apartment-building.html

Where's Maureen? Kinda expected her to reappear with an apology.

So, Maureen, you would prefer that the pilots were killed? Should they have NOT ejected and crashed into the building with the plane? What is wrong with you?

Excellent post djdrew201

Just got news from Virginia Beach. My grandson and his wife are both fine, their apartment is located across the street from where the plane crashed. Their building is intact, no damage. I can now rest a little easier. thank you to those that posted your concern, it's was very much appreciated.

Maureen, you're totally clueless. These pilots do everything in their power to avoid accidents like this. If they were already dumping the fuel, they were on top of things, even if the controls were not responding. Had they not been thinking a thousand miles an hour, the jet would have come down, fully loaded with jet fuel, and there would have been a ground-level catastrophe similar in damage and deaths to the Twin Towers inferno of 9/11. It also appears that they ejected within the last few seconds. If they were fighting a "dead" aircraft, there was nothing they could do to "steer" it away from the path.

Someone mentioned about car wrecks... that is so true. With all the accidents occurring daily, maybe we should ban cars.

Several others mentioned the bases being around before the developers built houses and apartments... again, that is something people need to be aware of. If you buy or rent near a military installation, plan on being "inconvenienced" with their day-to-day operations. If you don't like it, move. I love the C-130's and other aircraft flying over my home. I told a friend once that it was the sweet sound of freedom. If one ever crashes into my house, well, it's my time to go.

1.40-

Keep these planes away from heavily populated areas!!

Commercial airports have little choice. The military has choice.

Well no actually, the military is fully dependant on Congress and the Administrative branch for funding and permission to move and build a new base. The Navy built this base first, before the locale was densely populated, and urban sprawl [allowed by the city of Virginia Beach] surrounded it. That happened even as the Navy warned the surrounding cities that building too close and in their flight path was not safe. The city has more recently been buying up surrounding property in those danger zones, to try and lessen the risk.

But this could easily have happened next to a civilian/commercial airport, many of those are surrounded by development as well.

This is horrible, and I hope there won't be fatalities, though that would also surprise me. I'm just glad the pilot stayed with the plane long enough to dump fuel, or it would have been a catastrophic fireball and even worse.

Maureen can't help it. She has the same mentallity of the same person n Maryland who thinks she won the lotto. I'm just glad no more people were hurt, than there was.

I'm so glad everyone is ok! This happened right behind my apartment it's scary how close! Where the jet crashed is only a half mile from the ocean. Jets are constantly flying over shaking my apartment sometimes! My boyfriend was working a street over and saw the whole thing he said that he had jet fuel dumped on him. He said it was so intense but people where helping each other. Which shows what a great community I live in!

SOME DAY

ALL 60 positers above THIS POST

will mature and realize

WHEN YOU SCREAM AT VILLAGE IDIOTS

it tends to lower your credibility to THEIR LEVEL as well !

IF you do not have the ability to IGNORE IGNORANCE

how the hell- can you drive a car ?

or raise kids

live in society

live with YOURSELF ? ? ?

Once again Newsvine "Get Smarter Here" Forum to discuss Facts is turning into a Personal Blog with emotive opinions being posted and posts voted on based on popularity and not FACTS.

Examples:

Maureen-2162031 - Let me get this straight.

The Facts will not be completely known until the Investigations are completed.

31 Votes - believerof - this has ZERO to do with unemployment. can you take the political fight out of it for TWO SECONDS!!!?????

Has a lot to do with unemployment as to if those at the Apartment Building were at Work or at the Apartment Building that the USN Aircraft Crashed Into. By the way in many cases those that live in US Civilian Communities around US Military Installations have something to do with those US Military Installations as Retired, Active Duty, Reserves, National Guard, US DOD Civilians, US Civilians Employed "On Base", Transportation to and from Installation, Wholesale to US Military Concessions, even the Theaters, Shopping Malls, Fast Food, Car Dealerships, Real Estate, Local City State Income Taxes and Sales Taxes, etc. as used by US Military Personnel. US Military Personnel in many cases when the US Military Installation housing, Temporary housing, Transient Housing is full will occupy whatever is available "Off Base". Being paid below minimum wages and limitations for reimbursements for housing means many times US Military get whatever is the cheapest.

From Firsthand experience in most cases Communities in and around the US Military Installations have the lowest Unemployment Rates as most of the Communities Residents had jobs related directly or indirectly to that US Military Installation. As to why the smart US Politicians are against President Bush's 2005 Base Realignment and Closures (BRAC) and the resulting loss of US Citizens Jobs and US Civilian Communities Economic Disasters.

jkatze - Keep these planes away from heavily populated areas!! Commercial airports have little choice. The military has choice.

The US Military has NO Choice, they can "recommend" changes to the US Civilian Control over the US Military. And the US Civilian Control (US Politicians) over the US Military can tell the US Military to put their recommendations where the sun doesn't shine (happens a lot, especially when it deals with US Citizens Jobs as part of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex or BRAC at their States).

jkatze - Eisenhower was a prophet.

President Eisenhower and General Smelly Butt were products of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex. That without the US Military Defense Industrial Complex, GENERAL Eisenhower would have still been in the Great Depression eating "Hobo Stew" (Dog Food mixed in with whatever you could find), the same with GENERAL Smelly Butt, he would have been still in the 1907 Depression.

With both of them becoming Popular just because they were Involved in Wars and provided for with US Military Equipment better or more of than what the enemy had.

After General Eisenhower became US President he started to dismantle the US Military Defense Industrial Complex that was previously created by President FDR to get the US out of the Great Depression 1939 after his New Deal to the American People Failed (US Government spending money it did not have to create US Jobs), before US Entry into WWII 1941. He like you decided to do this based on opinion and NOT Facts, with the Resulting start of another Great Depression, as the US Military Defense Industrial Complex employed almost one third of the employment of US Citizens Nationwide, just as still to this day, almost a hundred million US Citizens Jobs.

A US Military Defense Budget Cut of 10% will result in the Unemployment of a million (US) Civilians - President Obama, and Secretary of Defense Leon Penetta, 2012.

What saved President Eisenhower's Administration from starting another Great Depression was the US Involvement with the UN's Korean Conflict. At the very start of the US Involvement with the UN's Korean Conflict, the US Military was ill equipped due to previous US Military Defense Budget Cuts, so US Military Units as UN/US Task Forces ended up getting massacred while attempting to stop the North Korean invasion. example: US Military Task Force Smith being wiped out since they did not have enough Anti Tank ammunition to stop the USSR Tanks supplied to the North Koreans. The US Military Defense Industrial Complex comprised of US Civilians does NOT take just a couple of days to stop or start, it took till almost until the middle (no one knew if Korean Conflict Fighting would ever end) of the Korean Conflict for the US Military Defense Industrial Complex to finally get started enough to provide enough US Military Equipment to the US Military in Combat.

Realizing just how much he screwed up, resulting in the unnecessary Deaths of US Citizens of the US Military as what all US Military Commanding Officers live with for the rest of their Lives, President Eisenhower made changes based on Facts and increased the US Military Defense Budget as stated later in his Presidential Papers (Personal Presidential Records) as reflected even today.

President Eisenhower just like President FDR finally realized that US Consumerism could NEVER keep the US Economy going; but, the Sales of War Materials as manufactured by the almost hundred million US Citizens of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex could, did and does. Especially, in the areas of US Manufacturing (US Industry), US Farming and US Food Processing, US Mining and Raw Materials Processing, US Textiles, etc. all providing for the US Citizens of the US Military with the necessities and the numbers of US Citizens of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex proportional to the numbers of Active Duty US Military.

jkatze Figure this out as US Consumerism versus US Foreign Military Sales:

How many, Made In China, Apple iPads would you have to sell to equal just one, Made In US, F-15, to be sold to US Ally Saudi Arabia, also include the numbers of US Civilian Jobs for decades manufacturing the repair parts for the F-15 sold to the US Ally Saudi Arabia.

So jkatze Answer that:

number of Apple iPads ___________________at $x,xxx.xx per unit (I am talking about the Best Apple iPad, not what you can buy). Number of Made In China US Jobs created _— and the average income of those US Citizens Jobs $______— per year.

one F-15 sold to US Ally Saudi Arabia for $_______________. Plus cost of Repair Parts of $_____________. Number of Made In US US Jobs created _________— and the average income of those US Citizens Jobs $__________— per year.

You can be indignant all you want; but, in Fact you are a product of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex and benefit from that somehow (US Military eating at the fast food place that you are flipping burgers at) thru your current US Standard of Living.

Sonbeam - Live in the area and the news is calling it the Good Friday Miracle

Thanks for the Firsthand Facts.

USAF Vet-923294 - My father was career USAF and I was career USAF, seen this scenario more times then I care to count.

If you were at RAB (Ramstein AFB, USAFE HQ) just before 1998 Operation Desert Fox, thanks for scaring the sh!t out of me with all those F-15s and F-16s with full mission bomb loads that flew over my German House miles to the South of the Alternate Runaway that they were taking off from. My whole House was doing the shake rattle of an earthquake, when I ran outside I could count the numbers of bombs, external tanks, etc.. Being a US Military Asymmetric Warfare Officer, I grabbed my Ready Bags, drove like a bat out of hell, reported in, was in briefed, and we ended up with attached USAF STTs to do later Target Damage Assessments for all US Military Branches involved with Operation Desert Fox after being inserted blind (no link ups on the ground due to President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies and previous RIFs of the US Military) into Iraq. Just a little while before Operation Desert Fox we had been at Iraq attempting to organized the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia to Overthrow President Hussein in accordance with President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 while attached to his Intelligence Agency's SAD/SOG (us technically becoming "non" US Military on paper.).

Previously, the USAF at RAB had FUBAR accidents of releasing training bombs before reaching the designated training target areas. With the obvious German panic then outrage afterwards. So, yes, I was very concerned when those fully loaded F-15s and F-16s flew over my house, as from experience (previously trained at USAF School as Forward Combat Air Traffic Controller and STT, like most US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (aka Special) train for everyone else's missions) I had previously seen what a 500 pound bomb does. (I also really disliked the one engine design of the F-16, there was a design reason for the F-15 having two P&W F-100s).

I have stated for a very long time that these 1980s-1990s designed US Military Aircraft MUST be replaced (side benefit more US Civilian Jobs, over 95,000; and decreasing US Trade Deficits with Nations that will buy the new US Military Aircraft and decades of US Technical Support and Repair Parts. Just like the previous hundreds of Billions USDs "Deal of the Century" F-16 Foreign Military Sales to 140 Korea, 116 Belgium, 58 Denmark, 102 Netherlands, 72 Norway, 46 Egypt, 232 Turkey, lots of other Nations.) and even decades later 18 F-16s sold to Iraq for $4.2 Billion. As you can only patch up old clothes so many times (even if these aircraft are completely rebuilt from the airframes).

I agree with Derek1968, Wow,why didn't this fuselage disintegrate like the ones at the Pentagon and PA. No

recognizable piece at either site?????

very sad. Good thing this doesn't happen more often. I wonder if they have drones set to dump fuel in case of emergency?

@David 2 posts up: I'm glad you blessed this thread with your sanity.

Maureen-2162031 (and all the others that obviously have never been or lived with or around aviators):

I have lived very close to this site since 1975. I currently live near the training strip about 15 miles away from this location. I have jets or turbo props around my area (and over my house) literally every, single day.

I this case, the pilot had just lifted off and experienced a catastrophic failure. While he was struggling to contain the situation and assess his chances of saving his craft, crew, those beneath the plan, and himself (about 4 or 5 seconds). He (or she) had the wherewithal to dump their fuel and maneuver to as open an area as they could.

This area is less than 1/2 mile from a very busy resort strip (100+ hotels) that basically opened up this past weekend. There is the Interstate (US 264) which is an 6-8 lane route and a convention center (a couple of 100,000 square feet) within an easy walk of the site, not to mention thousands of homes and business.

The pilot waited long enough to order the bail-out that either he or his crew landed in the burn field (meaning they weren't high enough to drift away and the angle wasn't sufficient to eject them a couple of hundred feet). He may have been trying to turn towards the water, but he wouldn't have made it with the loss of power and any closer to the water would have potentially killed many more than where the plane ended up.

He saved countless lives by getting rid of the fuel well away from the site, and his training isn't to "go down with the ship," but to do his best to avoid civilian deaths and save himself and his crew to fly and fight another day.

Any loss of life is terrible. Military personnel are killed around the world in training accidents every week. It's a dangerous job and they volunteer to do it. They risk their lives, their families, and more lucrative civilian opportunities.

I would wait to pass judgement until an investigation is completed (and there will be at least 2). If not, perhaps you should use the "Thumper Rule" and not say anything if you can't say something nice.

God bless the skill and courage of our pilots. I was at the University of Arizona midday, over thirty years ago when a fighter jet flew over the campus, trying to reach its base. There was no engine noise, and he couldn't have been more than 300 feet off the ground, yet he stayed with it, with no power, making sure he cleared the main part of the campus - the chemistry building full of students, dormitories and an elementary school just off campus. He knew he wasn't gonna make his base and was trying to dump it in an empty football practice field. He was maybe 100 feet off the ground when he somehow he directed the jet toward the field and and ejected. It dropped like a rock. Unfortunately it impacted about fifty feet short of the field and crashed in an intersection, killing three people. It could have been so much worse. I still marvel at his courage.

Common Sense Joe - They dumped fuel before the crash to avoid a giant fireball and resulting massive fire. Had they not done that there wouldn't have been anything left of the fuselage.

Maureen. Shame on you. I, for one, am happy that the pilots managed to eject in time. It sounds like there was nothing they could do to stop or delay the crash. It would have been tragic if they'd gone down with their plane. Would you have gotten some sick satisfaction to read that they had lost their lives? They have families too, and they did not crash the plane on purpose.

1.63-

...why didn't this fuselage disintegrate like the ones at the Pentagon and PA...

Those were much (1) larger, heavier aircraft, (2) carrying much more fuel, and (3) travelling at much higher rates of speed, which (4) struck much more impact resistant objects [thick stone or the ground itself].

This jet struck an aprtment building with a single exterior layer of brick, wood framing, insulation and drywall, and it's fuel tanks seem to have been mostly empty by impact.

Anyone that says they shouldn't run drills over populated areas...remember this. In most cases, the air bases were there FIRST. Then the developers built the houses under the flight plans.

Maureen...I'd suggest you join up and become a fighter pilot yourself, but I doubt you would pass the military's mental stability tests.

Dubbya - don't forget to also explain to Joe that the PA crash was nose down at 500mph just like the Value Jet crash in the Everglades in 1996 that left nothing left of the plane; and that United Boeing 737 that nose dived at Denver in 1991 that left no remnants of recognizable pieces.

What most people don't realize is that aircraft are designed to be skeletons with thin aluminum skin. There's really not much to an aircraft structure unlike, say, a building. And there's a good reason for that: weight savings. Regarding this Super Hornet, most likely they slowed the jet up and it pancaked in at 100-125 knots. Clearly there was not much forward velocity as the tail is sitting there right side up in the middle of the complex. If it had slammed into the ground at 250-300kts, there would be even more carnage and nothing left of the aircraft.

Also, for the sharp-eyed military aviation folks - notice that tail section. See both those engine exhaust nozzels? Notice how the right side one is open and the left side one is closed, or smaller? That's a clear indicator that the left side engine was operational upon impact (closed nozzle) and the right side one was not (open nozzle).

Mister Fids....Judging from your post, you cannot IGNORE IGNORANCE either. I mean, you are "SCREAMING AT VILLIAGE IDIOTS"...also. What's that saying about "People in glass houses......?"

Great info David. At least SOMEBODY has good knowledge of the "evil" Military Industrial Complex. People "forget" the threat we faces from the old USSR. God only knows what may have gone down if Jimmy Carter would have been re-elected.

zombie figther,

Regretfully, most of what I post is from Firsthand Experience or Detailed Research. After the Declassification of the Pre WWII War Department Documents I wrote a College Paper pertaining to the Pearl Harbor Attacks, during my Research everything started to overlap into the Causes and the situation of the times, the 1929-1939 Great Depression, the "Peacetime" US Military sailing around during the 1940s in ships built from 1911 to 1917, etc..

The Firsthand Experience being

Redacted

So with all of the above, decades, and usually living with the Locals for years of consecutive tours external to the US, it is like looking into the Fishbowl (US) from outside, and seeing everything versus the fish in the fishbowl believing that the Fishbowl is the entire World. In this Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks there are only the options of either Learn or Die.

zombie figther,

By the way the Chinese and Russian Federation are using the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran as their "Proxy Fighter", with the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran using the Worldwide Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists as their "Proxy Fighters" as Funded with Trillions USDs each year from the Mandatory Islamic Tithes of the 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide.

So all the Chinese and Russian Federation have to do is continue to supply 21st Century Military Equipment, Weapons, Technology, etc. as manufactured by their Military Defense Industrial Complexes to increase their own Economies, Technological Advances, etc. to obtain the World's Resources and Increase their Strategic Spheres of Influence.

Their Strategic Goal, get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Resources) of the Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc., so that US and US Allies basically "Run out of Gas" similar to what happened to Germany during WWII after they lost the North African Oil. With Germany as a matter of National Survival attempting any or all "Alternative Energy" and still Failed, brand new Jet Fighters, Missiles, Tanks, with empty fuel tanks. If they succeed (which they are) the US is replaced as a "Super Power" by the Chinese (currently building 21st Century Technology "Deep Water" Navy, PLAN) and the US Standard of Living becomes like a Fourth World Nation like Somalia, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc..

Before everyone starts saying "Conspiracy Theorist wearing a Tin Foil Hat" or "Fear Mongering", just go look at the Unclassified Official References for the US Military and as Catalogs for the other Nations to decide what to buy for their Nation's Military; Jane's All the World's Fighting Ships, Jane's All the World's Aircraft, etc..

@1.63, Dubbya gets it right, but you also need to remember that military aircraft are made to take a beating and civilian air craft aren't.

David,

If you were at RAB (Ramstein AFB, USAFE HQ) just before 1998 Operation Desert Fox, thanks for scaring the sh!t out of me with all those F-15s and F-16s with full mission bomb loads that flew over my German House miles to the South of the Alternate Runaway that they were taking off from.

LOL. Nope, wasn't me. I retired at 12 years PDRL in late 1992. BUt I have seen them flying in low like that.

I have seen some strange ones. At Sheppard AFB we had a tweet (T-37) go down. The pilot pointed it at the ground and bailed, but it hit wind shear and leveled out. Glided to a road and landed itself on a residential street. Never hit anything

Had a T-38 go down after take off and the pilot and trainer pilot bailed out and hit power lines - killed them both. Plane augured in but was mostly intact.

At Tinker AFB, OK an F-16 went for a open field, bailed and when it hit, it bounced (over 1,000 ft away) into the only house in ten miles distance.

At Misawa AB, Japan we had an F-16 go down immediately after take off. Pilot bailed, but both went into a forested area. Pilot was pretty beat up, but survived.

Deal with high powered birds like these, you will eventually see these things even when you don't want to.

There are those wondering why the pilots ejected in a populated area. Reports have indicated that the pilots were going down no matter what and were headed for a school. They chose the lesser of 2 evils, in hopes that most people would be at work that lived in the apartments as opposed to a school full of kids.

Having been stationed at NAS Oceana, I know that the military has been warning the surrounding area to quit building so close to the base for decades. Both Virginia Beach and the state of Virginia know the risks. The base was there long before any of those homes or businesses. I always found it puzzling that residents that live nearby complain about jet noise... Well don't live next to an airport! In defense of the people of Virginia Beach though, many believe the jet noise to be the "Sound of Freedom" My point about the homes nearby is that there is a risk living near ANY airport, no matter how safe the pilots are, there will always be a chance that a plane could go down.

I am thankful that there were only injuries sustained and no deaths reported.

What kind of drills? What do you practice? I am curious

@Kjosee: In my area, it's missile/bomb practice.

everything you want/need to know Kjosee :-)

Kjosee: the local hospitals have drills on quickly setting up a triage tent, disbursing patients based on immediate need, notifying next of kin etc. The fire depts & police dispatch to block roads immediatly involved and creating a path for the rescue to get to & from the site & hospital. My brother is a Captain in the VB fire dept and is likely on the scene as we speak. Prayers for all involved. Sadly, when the base was first built, there were no residential areas anywhere near it. Now people have encroached on the flight path, then complain about the jet noise.

Formerly stationed in Oceana as an aviaton electrician for F-14 Tomcats with VF-103 and F-43 (A-4's and T-2's), regarding practice and training...Pilots maintain flight hours (whether it is a F-14 or a 747) (both day and night), they could possibly headed to a nearby seabound carrier for deployment or carrier quals which include 'touch n go's' (Jet quickly lands or touches the landing gear on carrier and takes off all in one shot..TOUCH N GO.). Yes, pilots do the best they can in their power to control the aircraft from falling upon the public population, whether they are civil or military. Some succeed and some don't but there is no conspiracy here for you conspiracy theorists. It is a tragic accident. Even commercial airline pilots do what they can like the successful emergency landing in Potomac that saved alot of people vs a DC-10 which lost an engine causing the plane to cartwheel into a neighborhood (that was around 1979-1980 time frame.)...Those of you who are trying to be political from all this and/or believe this a government 'doing'...YOU DESERVE A MEATBALL!

Let's all hope all is safe from this.

Meatball, I was also attached to VF-103. I made the transition from F-4's to F-14's. Powerplants shop. Remember VF-74's crash on the Forrestal?

MeatballOU812 - Even commercial airline pilots do what they can like the successful emergency landing in Potomac that saved alot of people

That was because as he stated that he was trained as a US Military Pilot (USAF F-4s) to do water landings "Ditching". You would give them a meatball, I would tell them to bend over.

usagi-sensei - Sadly, when the base was first built, there were no residential areas anywhere near it. Now people have encroached on the flight path, then complain about the jet noise.

Tell that to jkatze post#1.40.

Really sad, CVN-65, is on her last Mission. Still believe that CVN-80 must be named after CVN-65 as the USS Enterprise.

http://ussenterp.epetitions.net/signatures.php?petition_id=1870

My thoughts/prayers with anyone/everyone involved.

Although there will always be posters who are at least 5 bricks shy of a full load, and in general just miserable people, I am heartened to see lately on the vine genuine empathy and sympathy from my fellow posters for tragic events.... Sometimes I wonder about some folks, but am glad we are still relatively intact and human despite world, financial and local sad news... I wondered about folks being too cynical, etc. Two points for us....:)

I'm more worried about the people in the apartment complex.

good thing the pilots survived so they can say what went wrong in the final moments before ejection.

now let's hope we have some survivors.

Lepug - good thing the pilots survived so they can say what went wrong in the final moments before ejection. now let's hope we have some survivors.

Post# 1.21. We can hope that Sonbeam is correct, no deaths:

Sonbeam - Live in the area and the news is calling it the Good Friday Miracle...at this point, 5 ppl are being treated at the local hospital and from the way the news is calling it, it sounds like alot of jet fuel was dumped before the crash and some of these ppl may have been hit with jet fuel, but apparently no deaths at this time.....whoopeee! Praise God!

@Jan Oceana is fine...this happened right after takeoff and was a mile or so away from the base. Traffic is gonna be really bad tonight though!

#1.21 - Fri Apr 6, 2012 8:26 AM HST

chadybady4

don...your point stands clear....you hate medical marijuana. if you want to have an argument or have your voice heard...try not insulting people. on a second note....put your beer down.

*************

Guess what chadybady4 ... here's an argument for you GFY!

having grown up in VA. Beach and lived 9 miles from NAS Oceana, anyone on this board that is not familiar with living near a air base, or familiar with the area has ZERO right to critique the pilots in this situation, or complain about flight paths! i know for certain those pilots did all they could to avoid civilian casualties. i grew up with these planes, 30 years worth... every single neighborhood surrounding that base including the largest mall in the area is in a designated crash zone!! every single resident in this area is aware of said fact. fortunately there have been no deaths reported. these things happen, and fortunately not very often! first downed plane in our area in over 20 years the last was a F-14 tomcat that the pilot dumped in the atlantic....

"Come on, really" posted a great site:

According to the map, it looks like the pilots were heading out towards the Atlantic as it was going down, but it obviously didn't stay up long enough. Based on witness' accounts, the pilots ejected 2 seconds prior to touch down. Maureen's assumption regarding the pilots' actions is just plain ignorant and ludicrous.

MAUREEN is NOT the TOPIC...

please try to relate to the story and not the ignorance it has drawn to it...

or the stupidity drawn to the IGNORANCE !!

Mister Fids,

When (Stup!d) things intrude on your life don't you get angry: The person in the check out line with bags of loose pennies to pay for $10.00 of stuff. The inattentive driver that thinks that their vehicle and your vehicle can occupy the same space in the same lane. The crying baby screaming on the back of your neck at the Movie Theater with the parents doing nothing but smile at you when you turn around. People posting their Uninformed personal non factual emotive opinions that belong on Personal Blogs and NOT on Forums to discuss Facts.

People have to learn that there IS Personal Responsibility for posting on the Internet. Especially, since it is perfectly legal for the US Government to Censor and Monitor All US Communications after President Obama signed into US Laws his January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (plural) legalized that, Preemptive Detentions of US Citizens, No Material Support to Terrorist Organizations, and also extended the President Bush Patriot Act (singular). The part that makes each individual Responsible as subject to prosecution is the inclusion into President Obama's Patriot Acts (plural) of previously defeated as Unconstitutional US Senate S.1959 and US House of Representatives H.R.1955 aka the George Orwell 1984 Thought Crimes Laws that make the written or verbal Thoughts the crime also.

Then February 2012, President Obama signed into US Law, H.R.658, as hidden in the US Law, is the use of "Drones" for the Surveillance of US Citizens.

President Obama shown on January 22, 2009 signing into US Laws during a staged News Media Event his January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts, 04:38 minutes of 11:55 minutes:

Naomi Wolf: 'Obama can lock any US citizen up without trial'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLSeD19m3UE

So if Maureen-2162031 is an Adult then Maureen-2162031 is Responsible for what Maureen-2162031 posts and becomes "Fair Game" as the Topic for posts that do not contain Facts and only contain Maureen-2162031 non factual "opinions" as Newsvine Posters make corrections to Maureen-2162031 non factual opinions with their Facts. Maureen-2162031 posts the same thing with Lynch Mob Psychology and a "Rush To Judgement" and Presumption of Guilt prior to the completions of Investigations.

Your even attempting to defend Maureen-2162031 is what is wrong with today's US, with "Collective", "Distributed", "No Fault" Responsibility and No Personal Responsibility for Individual Actions, as everyone gets a prize, no one loses and no one is wrong, of Academic Idealism. You and Maureen-2162031 need to learn that is not the Harsh Reality of the Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks of the Majority of the World.

As told to us during our Legal Classes on the Four Legal Authorities (International, Local, US Civil (Criminal), UCMJ) Over The US Military by the Harvard Law School Professor (A US Military Reserve Officer) that was brought in to teach us: "There are no Laws if there are no consequences and punishment for violations of those Laws".

♪I didn't start the sh#tstorm! it was there from the begging and some1 had to say it♫

As a military man, can you tell me please, is it the responsibility of military pilots to assure the aircraft is out of range of causing injury to those on the ground before bailing out?

It sounds like the pilots were trying to get over the ocean before bailing but couldn't make it. They were dumping fuel before the crash, which is a good thing as this would have been much worse if they didn't. With fighter jets, you don't have much time to get over to a safe area before the jet takes a nose dive. I'm sure that the pilots did all they could to get out of harms way but time was against them.

@ lillypad

I'm sure the military would like to be able to schedule such incidents so the public is not inconvenienced unduly... just for YOUR sake !!!

BS... The F-18 is a very worthy aircraft with a great safety record. And Lilly, the pilots do the best that they can, but when there is a major problem on takeoff, they rarely have enough altitude or airspeed to clear the area.

So Randall, your idea of a plagued history is comprised of 2 crashes in 33 years. Get real. On another note the Navy has been trying to fight encroachment on military bases for years. Part of the requirement of rebasing the Jax Fl squadrons to VA Beach during BRAC was agreements with the local elected government to limit growth around the base. It's a shame whenever a jet goes down but alas there will always be a small number of failures whether they are mechanical or procedural.

Alan there were two versions of this aircraft. Navy Air force. If I remember what my dad(CWO4 USN AT Retired-30yrs) said they took the Air force version and tried to adapt it for Carrier use and made a piece of crap out of it. Just saying.

People, none of us are safe. We can live in the nicest town behind locked doors and with security guards all around, but the awful truth is that life is chaotic and bad things happen. The military tries to reduce risk for civilians and for their service personnel as much as possible, but life is messy. I pray that there were no casualties. Things can be replaced, people cannot.

Where's the honor in fighter pilots these days? He should have steered it away from the apartment buildings and gone down with the plane. A bit selfish that they both ejected. Not trying to sound harsh, but that would've been the decent thing to do.

Randall - I would hardly count two crashes in 30+ years a "plagued history."

@ Zucchini-Would you have gone down with the Jet? Just asking. I am pretty sure they were trying NOT TO CRASH into the building. They ejected at the last moment. No, it was selfish on their part. Tell that to their families

Zucchini your statement is ludicrous they probably did everything they could to steer the plane in tho safest place possible. As with anything mechanical and environmental took over after ejection. They weren't flying an Aircraft Carrier just a plane.

Zucchini: why waste two more lives than already would be wasted. If the crash is imminent, and I as a pilot know that going down with the plane, is not going to change the consequence, the least I can do is try to save myself. I don't think the pilots deliberately put the plane down on the neighbourhood, when they could have put it down somewhere else. My guess is they did all they could, and once they realized that it will crash at the apt, and that there was nothing they could do (except may be die with whoever may be on the ground) they pushed the buttons for ejection. I would give the benefit of doubt to the pilots, unless some other clear evidence indicates otherwise.

You mean pull the FACE CURTAIN for ejection.

I think the F/A 18 has been in accidents such as this one because IT IS SO WIDELY USED, not because it malfunctions. It'd just be like saying more Ford F150s get in accidents than a Porsche 911. Not because they are faulty (well, maybe) but because there are such a large number of them.

Bob, as a retired military person, (CWO3) and an aviation electrician/ordnanceman, (long time ago,) and familiar with a lot of different military jets, I hate to say it, but I think you got the facts a little messed up. You are describing the farce that the F-111 program was. The FA-18 has a great history.

As to what happened today, we don't know. After a full inquiry is conducted, the results will be posted, I'm just hoping and praying the rumors and unofficial reports I've been reading are true, and there are very few actual casualties.

Playing the "blame game," in any way, shape, or form, is just counter-productive.

To Maureen,you don't know the facts, so just for now,shut up!!!

If they lose power during takeoff they might only have seconds. These high speed jets require alot of thrust to stay in the air at low airspeed, if the engines cut out they can stall and drop like a rock. There's 2400 gallons of Jet fuel on board a fully fueled F-18, doesn't bode well for those on the ground.

CNN had interviewed someone who said they saw the nose of the plane up, the tail down, and they were dumping fuel before it crashed. I sincerely hope everyone is ok. A lot of workplaces are closed for the Easter weekend, and kids are home from school on break...the odds of having injuries or fatalities are huge.

Considering that one of the pilots "got hung up" by his parachute on the burning building, I think it's safe to assume that he waited as long as he could before ejecting. If those 'chutes came down miles from the crash site, then I might form a different conclusion.

From what I read it seems like the pilots came down right next to the plane, so they must have ejected just before it crashed.

local news reports the crash at 12:08pm.

The crash occurred around 12:30 pm. School was out today in Virginia Beach.

The article says 12:05 PM. So I guess it is not too much to ask.

Ehh I would not count on eye-witness stuff yet.

We have to wait untill the news you speak of is OFFICIAL.

They did.

Not in the VA Beach area that's for sure ...

ship dead in the water...F18 mach1+ yeah that sound like the same thing.

The downward energy vector the ejection seats create when activated, as well as the possible/probable breach of the canopy, usually will pitch the pointy end of the airplane down, and any quick safety of the public calculations the pilot makes in the few remaining seconds of flight he may have are usually overtaken by forces of nature, the postulate of self-preservation, and physics. NATOPS is not clear on such things.

In this type of bad situation the pilots always try to keep the pointy end of the aircraft up as long as possible.

Sometimes things can go very, very wrong.......

My thoughts and prayers are with those on the ground, I hope they all got out too.

Its funny how people who aren't in a predicament can always find fault in the way something happened. I'm glad that you think you could've done better, however, this isn't your 15 minutes.

It's wonderful to hear there are (so far) no fatalities. However I mostly agree with virginiabeachnavy's sentiments above. I'm a former civilian pilot myself, and made this decision years ago. My first responsibility in case of disaster was the safety of innocents.

Yes, I would have traded my life to keep control of my plane for that last second, trying to cause as little destruction as possible.

This particular pilot made a slightly different decision, ejecting at apparently the very last fraction of a second (remember the part where his chute was tangled up in the burning building). And so far, it looks like it worked better than my decision would have. So even though it's not the choice I'd have made, I'm also giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. It worked, and that's what counts.

It's kind of hard to control a jet fighter that's losing or has lost power.

when you're flying a goddamn airplane travelling just below mach 1 how can you stay with it untill it's over water?! it's nto like you can just do a quick 180 and ditch it in some random guy's pool. especialy if it's losing power/half-dead

Thank you for pointing this fact out. Its similar to when people become outraged that a mountain lion or bear is in their hillside neighborhood. The civilian population builds up around the base, not the other way around.

I was stationed at Ft. Eustis in 1966-67 and I don't recall Virginia Beach being much of anything. We went out there a few times. If it wasn't for all the military bases and military families the Tidewater area wouldn't have had much of an economy at all back then.

concerned in Central FL. Well said.As all ex military people know all military bases were built way before the houses were ever built. I retired in 1988 from the USAF And live in Tucson AZ. they fly A-10 out of Davis Monthan AFB.It is the most quiet jet aircraft in the USAF inventory today,but people complain about the noise all the time.Most of these complaints come from people who live in the take off and landing pattern. When asked why they moved into the house knowing the AF base was there..The answer is always, Did not know it was there,bought house on week-end.Point...You can't fix STUPID.

Snoopy: You're right! I used to sell real estate near Luke AFB in the Phoenix area. I was required to show the prospective buyers a noise map that showed exactly how many decibels they could expect to experience from the aircraft landing and taking off at Luke. If I showed property in that area without that noise map in my possession, I could be fined.

You're also right that you can't fix stupid...