I agree with you. This man gave his life to save his son. The least that the people in the community can do is to come forward with any and all information that they have that can help track down the SOB(s) responsible for this attack. This man is a true hero for doing what he did to protect his son. What makes this even more tragic and heartbreaking is that his wife is pregnant with another child who will now never get to know his/her father. Condolences to his family and friends and I hope that they catch the person(s) responsible for this.

This country seems to be getting worse and worse no matter where you live. Human life doesn't seem to matter as much as it did. This man is definitely a hero.

Questions : Was Fredrick Martin an intended target due to gang/drug ties? Was it mistaken identity? Or does Chicago have scum driving the streets killing for thrills?

Chicago is a city at war and gang-bangers, drug traffickers, pimps must be considered enemy combatants. When arrested they must be interned in pow camps until the war is over. If they choose to engage in battle, they should be shot like the enemy they are.

The good people of Chicago deserve a better life.

oops! Mistake! The city is LA but the same assessment applies.

Even though his son will not have his father growing up, he can be proud of how his Dad was a true hero. I can only hope those responsible are caught and punished. It is sad because we need more men like him and less of the scum who murdered him.

It disgusts me that people in certain areas of the country will stonewall the police when they try to investigate crimes like this. When people band together to thwart authorities they support the violence they end up living with. This is such a tragic story and I don't know whether the mindset I described is prevalent in the area but it seems odd that the police are having no luck obtaining leads. The article at least alludes to such a mindset in this area. Don't trust the cops but trust thugs with guns instead? Not smart!

As to violence in our nation, I suspect its no worse now than in times gone by but I do wonder what effect ten years of waging war has on us all. We spend our days celebrating and honoring deeds that outside a war would be criminal. Could it be that after a while the difference between killing in a war zone and killing in a neighborhood becomes less clear, or that killing just becomes killing? Has all the bloodshed caused a degradation of the value of life in general in too many minds?

The love of a father for his son. Love is silent. RIP and thanks for the unselfish example we so dearly need in this World.

It disgusts me that people in certain areas of the country will stonewall the police when they try to investigate crimes like this. When people band together to thwart authorities they support the violence they end up living with.

They do so out of fear. The laws of this country are sometimes "flexible" in ways they should not be. If the word gets out that it was you... or a member of your family... who id'd a shooter and he doesn't spend much time in jail, your family could be next. Even if the law works... the shooter has friends and family as well - who might seek revenge. Rather than be "disgusted" by these people, you'd do better to be understanding about the choices they are left with.

I do agree with your final paragraph, however. I remember when every murder in my state was news. Now, not even every murder in my town is news.

"sighber" makes a good point about people stonewalling the police. If this was a situation where a cop killed someone in the community these "people" would have plenty to say. This clearly shows who the "people" fear most, and is it not the police. What a shame our contry has gotten to this point.

Our prayers to the family of this brave man who truely showed what it means to be a parent, protect your children at all costs.

The cowards that shot him are nothing but cowards period. It is not an act of bravery to shoot an unarmed person from a moving car. They have condemned their souls. Also they will never know what we think or post because they are not intelligent enough to read much less use a computer.

Rooster, they are media whores plain and simple. They feed of the media and the media feeds off them. Sad but true!

@ Rooster-500885

LMAO :D :D

f*ck them... just sayin :)

What was the motive for the shooting ?the cops need to do their job ...but if the victim is black that wont happen I saw a hate crime where a black man was run down by A racist in a car and Knoxville police were then abusive to the victim (for being black) and let the criminal go free with no drivers license and not even a citation for that. When I tried to tell the cops what happened they threatened me!!GOOD LUCK FINDING JUSTICE IN AMERICA OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM IS BROKEN IN TENNESSEE!!!

with the several shooting all similar, if they find the bullets, and they match, it would appear a random shooter; on some mission from a really screwed up mental problem; these are very hard cases , unless some citizen comes forward with a Leeds.

wherer is obama? where is sharpton and jackson? where is the fbi? this horrible tragedy and it is not a top news story Oh God help us all

There is nothing more courageous than a dad putting himself in the line of fire to protect his son. So many of us complain about everyday little things. Just look at what this guy did... There is a special place in Heaven for him.

This was whitey doing this shooting and 5-0 is covering it up , right REVEREND RACEBAITER AL SHARPTON !!!!?

First off God bless Fredrick Martin a true example of a real father and man, people like you truly make me proud to be an American and a human. May you rest in peace and enjoy the spot you have earned in heaven.

@ Just My 2 Coppers the choices they are left with seem pretty simple; 1. look in the mirror at a coward daily and say nothing. Yeah you might stay "safe" until next time when it might be you or your family's turn and knowing you have ended up changing nothing...or 2. make a change and lead your family and children by example so they know and see what is right and wrong. Yeah the choices suck but 10 out of 10 times I know I'd sleep better knowing that I did something to take a step in safeguarding their future or their kids' future. Life's not easy or safe, and death or injury comes to everyone. You just have to answer the question, does it come to you fighting for something worthwhile, like your family and children, or by another senseless shooting, getting killed by a drunk coming home from work on a saturday night, or being hit by a bus, etc... I think the choice is simple.

Hmmm... The shooter is an evil coward.

Fredrick Martin is a hero. He died the "hero's death," by giving his life to save another person.

What a brave and loving man. So, so sad and senseless. The poor family, to have to go through such loss. May the perpetrators get caught and perhaps the community will have one brave soul who actually comes forward with any information that leads to the capture of the filth who did this.

NOWHERE does the article state that ANY of those shot were black so get off the hate for black leaders! the LAPD are notorious for being corrupt, incompetant and full of bigots. My mother's ex-fiancee used to teach all of them driving and the "N-word" was very commonly used and other minorities or lower economic areas were equally belittled. The people know what the police, who are supposed to be there to protect and to serve, think of them as well as their incompetency. Our "Legal" system, no Justice is involved it's all just a big game to lawyers and judges, does little to nothing to protect victims and witnesses except to get to trial. Communities which aren't trusting and cooperative with the police trust that the gangs and drug dealers WILL defend their turf by making an example of any snitches and such who diminish their business but do NOT trust that the police and legal system can or are willing to protect them.

I blame right-wing, male political leaders -- under their guise of promoting the 2nd Amendment's Right to Bear Arms, and in their zeal to prove how "tough" they are to get people to "pack heat," to defend themselves from anyone that socially or psychologically threatens their life (for example, the "Stand Your Ground, Shoot First, Kill-at-Will" gun law, that currently and politically shields Zimmerman from blame, for his taking of Trayvon Martin's life -- are empowering the NRA, while enriching their firearms manufacturers -- and the consequence of this machismo, right-wing promotion, is to foster this tragic culture of defensive and offensive violence in our streets, as a reactive, deadly and quick way to solve temporary human disagreements, in otherwise peaceful neighborhoods.

I also recall this recent post on the NewsVine, and it gave me pause for thought:

--------------------------------------

daryl-2183015

Tonybeeerm, you should try Utah.

In Utah a few years back an off duty "security guard" for a low end restaurant was eating in the patio out front with a few people he wnated to show off to. So, when a schizophrenic homeless person started mumbling to himself across the street this "security guard" ordered him to leave and picked a fight.

When the homeless man swore and threw his backpack to the ground the "security guard' shot him dead. The Utah AG called it self-defense.

Utah's law is worse than Florida's. All you have to do to shoot people in Utah is get a human hunting license and pick a fight. I've already had one gun pulled on me by an idiot who cut me off (I was going 45 he was coming in from the left at about 15 when I shreded my tires to avoid killing the idiot). I flipped him off, he pulled his gun out to show me how tough he was.

I now buy guns for my liberal friends and tell them, shoot first because if you don't, they will.

#3.5 - Thu Apr 5, 2012 6:23 PM PDT

Ban handguns.

@ronald taylor-- Maybe that is why nobody is speaking up. It is taught starting at a young age in black neighborhoods that you dont snitch and you dont do the right thing. Those different tribes have engaged in deadly war for ceturies.

I guess I'll be taking a 3rd path in this discussion, one that neither lionizes Mr. Martin nor condemns the right (which is about the stupidest post here anyhow). Maybe you all have read elsewhere about this story and garnered lots more information from those sources, but this article is so thin on facts that it's dangerous to make any conclusions other than three men in a car drove up and opened fire, killing Mr. Martin.

We don't know if Martin was involved in criminality or not. He might be gang-related, or in the drug trade. He could also be a person who was witness to a crime and so was targeted by the criminals. It could be mistaken identity, too. And there are maybe many other possible reasons he was the victim. But a hero? We don't know why he threw the boy to the ground, and we don't know that he shielded the boy from the shooters. This article wants to make that claim, but upon what evidence? It could just as easily be that Martin, when the shooting began, knocked the boy over as he dove for cover. Or that because of where the two were positioned that Martin, in seeking cover too, was protecting his son by being there. I don't want to impugn Martin, and I regret his death, but this article is no evidence for any of the wonderful claims made here, and me wanting those things to be true don't make them true.

To the leftist fools who think that every gun crime is the responsibility of republicans...Which matters more to you? The protection of our constitutional rights for law-abiding citizens, or, the removal of firearms from our society? The reason I ask is that if every law-abiding citizen turned in their guns to the police so that you could feel proud for having made the world safer, do you honestly think that the shooters in this case would have as well? They are willing to kill, but they would fear having an illegal weapon? Are you people for real? But, in a larger sense, it is more likely that an educational system which is concerned about all sorts of fantasy outcomes OTHER than creating graduates capable of understanding responsibility and duty is responsible for more criminality than are guns.

Why? Simple. Why did gun crime criminality remain relatively flat until the mid-60s, when it tripled, even though per capita gun ownership remained flat? Oops, my bad. I shouldn't expect you to comprehend a logical question about this issue. The fact is that gun crime jumped, then fell some and leveled out but remains higher than pre-60s levels, because our cultural values changed, not because guns were suddenly made available to a blood-thirsty populace. That is, the LEFT'S cultural values took the lead. In movies, in art, in law, in education. Don't blame republicans for the consequences of the policies your political ancestors enacted, and that you continue to this day to support.

Requiescat in pace, brave one. We shall not forget your sacrifice and your death will be avenged... if they execute the bastard, that is.

Say what you will but gun violence is up, and thats just not MSNBC talking.

The very fact that the man responded the way he did says a lot about our communities, he had the foresight and fear of the very sound of gun fire to react.

It is a sad thing when people have to live life here in this country like they live in a war zone, gangs have the run of the streets, the police have to follow SOP, and the lowlife attorneys that protect the gang members just get richer from the drug money.

Many of these gangs require a new member to kill someone to join them, not another gang member; just any innocent person on the street will do just as well for them.

They say you can’t take the law into your own hands, and I agree, but the hands of the law are tied by shyster lawyers and empty headed judges.

Fredrick Martin and his son, Tre, were in front of their garage Tuesday night when gunfire broke out, police said.

When he heard the shots, the man pushed his son to the ground and covered him with his body. Martin suffered gunshot wounds to his abdomen and upper torso and later died at the hospital."

Whoa, I would have done the same....

Fredrick Martin and his son, Tre, were in front of their garage Tuesday night when gunfire broke out, police said.

When he heard the shots, the man pushed his son to the ground and covered him with his body. Martin suffered gunshot wounds to his abdomen and upper torso and later died at the hospital."

Whoa, I would have done the same.... I can't stop it, sorry...

You just have to answer the question, does it come to you fighting for something worthwhile, like your family and children, or by another senseless shooting, getting killed by a drunk coming home from work on a saturday night, or being hit by a bus, etc... I think the choice is simple.

I am sure you do think as much... as do I from an "armchair warrior" sort of mindset. However, this is not OUR life. We do not live with the threat of this on a daily basis because this is not OUR neighborhood. However, if it were my neighborhood... and my experience, I might think that my primary goal is to keep my children alive - in the hopes that they might have a chance to get out of there one day. And if I looked around and noticed there are 216 persons for every one police officer in LA - and about 300 homicides per year in LA - and a crime rate that is almost twice the national average - and only about half of the adult arrests end in conviction - well, I would say the deck is already stacked against me in that goal. Not pissing off the neighbors might become a higher priority than lofty (albeit, worthy) ideals.

As much as the word "hero' gets tossed around these days, I believe that in this case, hero does not say enough about this brave, loving father. May God keep and bless you and your family always.

I support the words of wisdom from FDD

Fredrick was a very brave man.

"I support the words of wisdom from FDD".

As do I.

Yes this is where Wayne LaPierre needs to be

Yes, Ellie Laffer, I'm certain everyone involved was a member of the NRA and had Permits and legally bought weapons....Especially being that it happened in the Pro-Gun State Of California....

Sorry Mike, I forgot that speaking out against senseless gun violence isn't something the NRA is interested in.

Well you can't argue with an advanced case of paranoia

Excuse me quenavere, but you ought to educate yourself before making such ridiculous claims. Since President Obama took office your gun rights have been expanded, not curtailed. So have many of the so-called Stand Your Ground laws, eg. Florida's. The gun laws in the U.S. are some of the most liberal in the world. Those of you who believe that gun ownership is a historical right that has been curtailed over time are just plain ill informed. Gun ownership by average citizens has arisen modern times.

You should also know that killings worldwide, whether by murder or in war, are at an all time low. So your paranoid view of things has no basis in fact. Educate yourself instead of creating "facts" to support your preconceived views.

I hope that Mr. Martin's family is able to find peace and justice. He did what all of us hope we would do in the same situation. God bless his soul and watch over his surviving family members.

@Ellie "Laughter" Laffer,

ROTFLMAO, you are truly delirious! Do you really believe that the NRA advocates the use of weapons in the commission of a crime & supports cold blooded murder by gang bangers? LMAO!!!

FX, I believe that the NRA does not care, so long as their misinformation produces an increase in dues received and an increase in profits to the weapons industry.

@Irish,

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I believe that the NRA advocates responsible gun ownership & usage. Keep in mind, a great deal of NRA members are primarily sportsmen, such as hunters. I'm curious about what you mean by "misinformation"? Can you please embellish a tad & provide sources?

Ken, before asking others to educate themselves, perhaps you should educate yourself first. You made many false claims. For example, Obama has put out gun restrictions based on things his administration caused to happen and others tried to stop.

"...speaking out against senseless gun violence isn't something the NRA is interested in."

They are very interested in maintaining a distance from gun crime, not only because members are lawful people but it helps to discourage irrational folks from from presenting mistruths.

FX, just one of many.

That it is our constitutional right to own and arsenal of AK47's, armor piercing bullets, semiautomatic hand guns and 50mm rifles. What do these have to do with hunting or defending yourself. Or what does it have to do with maintaining a (constitutional) civilian militia.

The writers of the constitution owned a one shot, slow loading and inaccurate "arms".

Excuse me Ken, you are full of yourself. Obama and his administration have thrown up every obstacle they could muster to limit gun rights. It has been the NRA and States like TEXAS (Devil) that have wasted his objectives, with States rights litigation. Since Obama came about, the time it takes to complete a background check has tripled (probably because of the threat in the big office), the cost of ammunition has skyrocketed and the current attempt is to have the EPA outlaw lead in bullets. What a joke, guess we will have use silver bullets. How will we know the real Lone Ranger?

Gun prices have gone up since Obama has been in office because gun sale have increased to levels far above anytime before in our history. Ruger has suspended sales because they so far behind in production they need time to catch up. Wonder how many illegal guns have been sold in the last couple of years, since they are so much easier to obtain?

More people own guns than ever before, many of whom don't like guns or never desired owning a gun. WHY: because of the promised "Change". More people have a genuine fear of our government and the direction this country is heading than anytime ever before.

"WE WILL BURY YOU" Nikita Krewchev (spelling) 1960. People didn't get the rest of the saying in the translation from Russian "without firing a shot"!

You might want to lock up "hands" too because that's where the other forty percent of murders come from.

Paul - you just listed a bunch of boogey men. Obama doesn't control the cost of guns OR bullets, and he hasn't done anything to increase Federal limits on owning firearms. Don't tell us about people's irrational fears, as if that's somehow important - tell us the Executive Orders, the proposed laws or rule changes, the new instructions to the ATF, etc, that you think threaten gun ownership. That would be proof, not how people "feel". He's been in office over 3 years, what exactly has he done to warrant those feelings? NOTHING. That's some of the misinformation Irish was talking about. The gun industry is profiting off of your ignorance.

Obama doesn't care about legal guns, he doesn't care that you own them, pretty much all his and his administrations efforts have been geared toward tracking CRIMINAL gun trafficking, and people actually bitched and moaned about that.

By all means keep all of your guns while the top one percent take everything else within their reach. They have an easy job don't they? Just keep the nutballs worrying about their guns, lie about everything else and then swoop in and take the little they have left while the masses are distracted with paranoia and selfishness. Wow. Piece of cake. While people are being killed on a daily basis, we fail to realize that any of the bad shootings have moved from the inner-city to any place in the US without sensible restrictions on guns. There has to be a way to stop senseless killings.

Irish, what does owning muscle cars, dragsters or any other form of racecar have to do with transportation? Nothing, but they are hobbies or other recreational purposes. Guns, like AK47's, 50mm rifles, semi-automatic pistols, etc. serve the same purpose to many gun enthusiast. I own several semi-automatic pistols and rifles, I enjoy shooting them just like you may enjoy driving or playing with your toys. I have no desire to own AK47's, Uzie's, or any other firearm such as those, but that is my choice. That is my RIGHT as it is yours.

@Irish,

Really? You really want to know what an "arsenal of AK47's, armor piercing bullets, semiautomatic hand guns and 50mm (cal) rifles have to do with hunting or defending yourself"? Probably not a lot to do with hunting, but certainly useful for self protection. The NRA is trying to safeguard our constitutional rights & our natural right of self preservation by fighting against limitations that could eventually grow to include any firearm. BTW, have you somehow gained access to my gun vault? It sure sounds like it ;-)

Bottom line: If you don't want to own a firearm, feel free to do without. I, on the other hand, choose to own firearms & hope I never have to use them in self defense. I also have smoke detectors & fire extinguishers, but hope I never need either.

This is suppose to be about Fredrick Martin and how he sacrificed himself to save his son. There's a place and a time to debate other issues, but now is not the time. What struck me was the timing of this horrible tragedy, Easter, the celebration of the ultimate sacrifice. My heart goes out to the family and may Fredrick Martin be remembered as we celebrate this time of the year.

Capt. Go ahead and tell us about Fast & Furious. Tell us about the new attempts to limit lead in bullets. I'm waiting for your stupid replies to those. Never mind, those were and are Bush's agencies responsible for that.

Dreeves, call it paranoia or people nutballs, maybe you should worry about those that illegally possess firearms because they are the ones that do the majority of the killing. Maybe you could stop the killings by shooting anyone who has a gun.

gr8ce2u

Wrong! This is another Liberal Media piece to further the anti-gun agenda. This probably barely made the news in Inglewood, it is the everyday world in gangbanger land.

Just closed out of this vine to see a new msnbc thread, "Girl 15, shot while she is asleep in bed". Another, gangbanger drive by, in Miami no less. How can this happen in such a clean, peaceful City? More anti-gun pushing agenda!

Okay, I'm going to have to call bull$hit on most of this. I live in a state that has "liberal" gun laws, meaning you can carry a gun anywhere you want except near our lawmakers. I have had a gun pulled on me 4 times in my life while living here. Each time I was unarmed myself and each time the person who pulled the gun on me was a supposedly responsible gun owning NRA member, and each time they pulled the gun it had to do with their bruised ego, dancing with their wife (she never said she was married), sleeping with their EX, stopping a man from beating his wife in a bar, and asking a man why he was a pussy enough to think he needed to bring a loaded gun into ace hardware.

I have put myself in some very dangerous situations in my life, I drove though Compton in the middle of night with two women in the car and Wyoming plates. I even got out and asked for directions out of INGLEWOOD in the middle of the night WITH WYOMING PLATES ON. I have canvassed some of the worst neighborhoods of some of the biggest cities in the country and the only time I ever had a gun pulled on me was right here in my home town by some drunk, butthurt redneck card carrying NRA member.

In my opinion the only people who think they need to carry a gun are scared little boys who are afraid of their own shadow.

It is sad to see so many people so ignorant about the movement to kill the Second Amendment. Obama does want our guns. Make no mistake about that. Mayor Bloomberg and his goons can't wait to get our guns. None of these people want to do it the right way (amend the Constitution). They want to take a back door approach. Once we lose our rights to bear arms we will be at the mercy of the bad guys. You see the bad guys won't be turning in their guns.
Sorry so many of you can't see that.

LMAO @ Irish,

Don't confuse paranoia with preparedness! Uh...."color of your paranoia"? Frankly, I didn't know paranoia had a color. What color do you see my paranoia being?

Opinions are like @!$%#s. Everybody has one. Frederick Martin is a hero and more importantly, a father, in that he gave hislife for the child and family that he loved. At this special time of year, for christians, this is what our lives are all about. Happy Easter to all.

Don't confuse paranoia with preparedness!

I suggest you go see a psychiatrist before you hurt yourself or others. From your posts I can tell you will pull your AK-47 on the first guy that pisses you off (probably many of the people here that are calling you paranoid, which you most definitely are).

I would support a law that bans the carrying of weapons in any public place, and even in your house in the case of automatic or semi-automatic guns. Small non-automatic guns would be allowed only in the owner's household, and hunters would be allowed to keep guns in authorized places (e.g. there could be authorized businesses that offer the service of keeping your gun near a hunting area or shooting range).

I just went to a local NRA Banquet and fundraiser. That night alone we raised $28,000. ALL of the money is being used for local programs, part of which went to local communities to support local police crime stopper programs, part went to local schools to help fund programs to prevent bullying, part went to Fire Dept. fund raiser for putting defibrillators in police squads and train officers, and so on.

Hey Coon, I suggest that you're the one who's in need of psychiatric help for that schizophrenia you seem to be sporting. There was only one posting that implied I was paranoid & it was by one who gave it color. BTW, I doubt I would need a firearm to thwart the likes of you punk!

Sorry Coon, For starters I have a collection of fully operational and original Rifles and pistols from WWll. There is NO way I'm letting thousands of dollars of firearms to be "stored" at some place to get miss treated or "missing"

BTW, I doubt I would need a firearm to thwart the likes of you punk!

You seem impulsive, angry and violent, and you say you own an arsenal. I bet a few people must have restraining orders against you. Seek help before you hurt someone, I'm not kidding.

Sorry Coon, For starters I have a collection of fully operational and original Rifles and pistols from WWll. There is NO way I'm letting thousands of dollars of firearms to be "stored" at some place to get miss treated or "missing"

Maybe a loophole could be put in place to allow the NRA to keep your historical relics.

FX,

I had a feeling you may not get the reference to ML King's speech that men should be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. To answer your question I would say only black and white because you are unable to to understand gray.

Coon, Sorry I will still have to disagree with on that one. I have SS officer side arm, U.S. Army issue side arm, SS issue 8mm Mauser, HR M1 Garande, GM M1 Garande, Japanese issue rifle with cherry blossom intact all numbers matching and in excellent condition among other rifles etc. I took me many years and a LOT of money to find these and they are going No place but with me.

Irish & Coon,

Perhaps the two of you can get a group deal with a shrink & I'm not kidding! Though I doubt there's professional assistance available for stupidity, they might be able to prescribe something to help you overcome those little voices you keep hearing.

they might be able to prescribe something to help you overcome those little voices you keep hearing.

And this coming from a guy that says that keeping an arsenal is about being "prepared"! I can only wonder what "those little voices" want you to prepare for.

I have SS officer side arm, U.S. Army issue side arm, SS issue 8mm Mauser, HR M1 Garande, GM M1 Garande, Japanese issue rifle with cherry blossom intact all numbers matching and in excellent condition among other rifles etc. I took me many years and a LOT of money to find these and they are going No place but with me.

I see your point and I think it is quite unfortunate that there are only few things that laws can do to do justice to everyone. There are people with good faith that would like to adopt a kid, and yet they are not allowed to go to a marketplace of people that put their kids for adoption. People that use guns for criminal purposes unfortunately outnumber those that spend lots of money on WWII guns.

There is no convincing the 'Ellie Laffer's' of the world that the problems are not guns or knives that cause senseless violence, but senseless men and women that cause the violence and will use any impliment that is handy. Ellie and others have been cooped up in their little coccoons too long, insulated from the world and think they have the answers for everyone based on what they only learn from TV.

Ellie, I suggest you go out and look around, but be careful which neighborhoods you visit because holding those knives, guns, rocks, etc are the crazies that you should be afraid of... The weapons they carry are useless inanimate objects otherwise....

I do want to comment on guns and gangs. I live in Kansas City, where there's a shooting every night. I happened to turn the TV on and saw they were doing interviews with gang members. It was very insightful. All of them believed they would be dead by age 21-25. There gangs are families and they have no compunction to kill, rob, and etc because they know they will die at these early ages. It's so bad here, that at one particular hospital, it goes into shut down mode when they see a leader of one of the gangs enter the hospital. I had surgery there. The surgery was causing a host of problems on a weekend so my husband and I went back to the ER of this hospital. All of a sudden, someone was shouting and all of the physicians, nurses and etc. ran to the entrance...my husband wanted to see what was going on so he headed over to where everyone was. At the entrance a car had pulled up and the doors of the car were still open. He said the back seat was covered in blood and he saw the staff trying to bring this kid back, but it was too late, he died. Then, they put the driver in the bed next to us, separated by a sheet and you could hear everything. He had been shot in the shoulder and it was a through and through. Apparently, as the bullet enters it's so hot it cauterizes the path of the bullet, so he was good to go. What struck me as he was talking to his mother, he felt it was a badge of honor to have been shot. He was upset because his good friend had been killed, then he describe detail by detail, what happen to his buddy's body as he laid there dying. I hope never to hear something like that again. By the time the detectives got to him, he had taken off. Again, shut down mode. They never found him. I share this because for me change takes place in the heart. So you can take the weapons away, but they will always find a way to kill again. If they use a knife should they band all knives? I don't think so. The mentality of these gangs is kill or be killed. That is their way of dealing with problems. Till the heart changes, nothing will change.

I think coon might be a burglar who is worried about getting shot.

GM M1 Garande

First off, it's GARAND. And there is no such animal as a GM Garand.

Excuse me for my spelling error, spell check may changed it and I did not notice. What is now days GM actually made parts for the M1. Kelvinator refrigerator company did also among others.

@FXSTC

NRA is trying to protect our constitutional rights? Yeah, right. Just like Big Pharma is trying to cure our illnesses. The gun manufacturers are behind the NRA, and perhaps behind the rumors that our black president is going to take all your guns. And all you paranoid guys, just waiting for the race war, fell for it and are spending billions on their guns. NRA is good for playing on your fear and hatred.

RE your comparison of smoke detectors and fire extinguishers and guns and hoping you never need any of them. The difference is smoke detectors and fire extinguishers could actually help you and your family. Guns, on the other hand, probably won't (would Mr. Martin, in the article, have been helped by having a gun while trying to protect his son? I think not.) Plus, detectors and extinguishers probably won't accidentally kill your kids or shoot your wife when you get pissed off (and I'll bet you do).

It's annoying that some of you are hung up on the ethnicity of Mr. Martin's neighborhood and that someone asked whether Mr. Martin is just another gang-banger. Shame on you. I don't care what else he is, because today he is a hero who saved the life of his child.

Deborah, I have been shooting guns for over forty years and have been hunting since I was twelve. Guess I have been waiting for the race war also for a long time. I was an expert marksman in the USAF and shot in competition. I have been collecting vintage guns for over thirty years and till this day I have never shot my wife, even after I caught her cheating and went through a divorce. I have a daughter and the chance of her accidentally shooting someone is nil. She was brought up to treat guns with respect for what they are. She also shoots competition pistol and rifle in 4H. I just recently attended a NRA banquet, we raised $28,000. Part of that money was then donated to purchase defibrillators for squad cars, local crime stoppers, area schools among others. Plus things like Hunter Safety classes. Do I have a gun for home defence? Yes, 410 Judge with federal home defence shells. A gun is like a car. Both just sitting there they are harmless. Factor in a Human and lack of respect and either can become deadly. How many people are killed each year by intoxicated drivers? Have you ever driven home when you should have handed over your keys? Do you ever text or talk on your phone when driving? If handled carelessly a car can be a lethal object also.

@ Coon: Since I live on a farm, and could actually consider my back porch a hunting area and range, does that mean YOU would let me keep my WWII weapons?

@rader1 No. I think it would be better to leave WWII weapons and other automatic/semi-automatic weapons to the NRA or authorized businesses that are located near shooting ranges or hunting areas. I would be fine with you using a non-automatic gun in your back porch for fun and self-defense purposes.

@ roc1960 - Of course, there are responsible gun owners. But there are many who are not. How many of the kids that shot up their schools easily took the guns from home because they were not locked up? There were several. I used to have a weekend shack in the Blue Ridge Mountains (where most pick-ups had guns in the gun rack in the back window), and believe me there was open talk about the race war that was coming. I saw too many guys in their camouflage with a firearm over one shoulder and a beer in their hand during hunting season; many had young kids with them. I realize that not all gun owners are like that, but there certainly were a lot of them in the Shenandoah Valley (Virginia).

Not that it matters, but I don't drink at all, never have (too much alcoholism around me as a kid, many, many years ago), and I don't think anyone should drive after even one drink. Don't have a cell phone. I consider myself a safe driver and, if I had a gun, I'd try to be safe and responsible like you. But even you certainly must know that, just like unsafe drivers, there are many, many unsafe gun owners.

Not everyone drinks and drives but how many innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers. Do we ban cars to stop drunk driving? Do we punish the masses for the irresponsibility of few?

@roc1960 The problem seems to be (in my opinion) not that people keep a gun in their homes - which should certainly be allowed - but that they often keep more than they really need for self-defense or entertainment, or they keep guns that pose a greater threat to society (e.g. AK-47s, uzis, etc.) which eventually may end up in the hands of drug dealers or mobsters, or they carry them in places (e.g. public places) where if it weren't for the upstanding ethics of their carrier, they would increase the risk of a crime.

Using your car analogy, I would be fine with regulating or prohibiting the sale of cars that pose a bigger threat than normal cars, like cars with breaks that are prone to fail or with machine-guns attached to them. You could argue that some people just "know their car" and they well might never have an accident, and arguably if I had a machine-gun attached to my car I would never actually use the machine-gun or park my car where it can easily be stolen - but should society be exposed to that risk just to accommodate the car owners that are extremely careful with their dangerous cars?

Do most drunk drivers make the decision that they are going to get drunk and drive drunk prior to their first drink? The car itself poses no threat to anyone, its the person behind the wheel. How many are killed by things like reckless driving, texting and driving and so on. When someone is texting while driving it is not the phone or the car that kills but the irresponsibility of the driver. Lets say ban hand guns period. How well did Prohibition work? Actually think a criminal follows the law. Does not such things create a larger and more lucrative black market? Cocaine and Heroine classic example ( used for both are smuggled into the U.S. from other countries). How hard is it to purchase either on the streets? Would not be the same for "banned hand guns"?

I don't support a blanket prohibition of handguns, only to prohibit their possession in public spaces. If you want to keep a handgun in your house to defend yourself, then you should be allowed to. Enforcement of the prohibition would of course not always be easy, but at least it would give the police the authority to arrest those that endanger our streets without having to wait until a tragedy occurs.

My car analogy was precisely to illustrate the wisdom behind regulating car use when the problem is with the cars themselves, not with the driver, which you apparently missed. Gun control laws should be circumstance and gun-specific.

Coon, Wis. has concealed carry law with restrictions. Pretty much any state or federal buildings guns are banned ie court house, schools, DMV etc. Then any owner of a building may ban guns in their building by simply putting a sign to the effect at the entrances. I got your analogy, my point is the problem lies with the driver. The driver is not only responsible for their actions but also responsible for the vehicle itself.

Just to reply to something Paul said - there have been petitions by enviromental groups to have the EPA ban the use of lead in bullets used primarily for hunting, similiar to legislation signed in 1991 (who was President then, I wonder) banning lead shot for hunting fowl. The EPA has already rejected a similiar proposal from 2010, and will most likely (if it hasn't already) reject this one. Several states have already passed local ordinance restrictions, over the last couple of decades.

It's amazing what a little research will do. This is EXACTLY what I mean when I say boogeymen. You are afraid of everything because of NOTHING. Please explain to me what you thought the lead bullet situation was about? I'd love to hear this.

And it's not even a second amendment concern, they are worried because the shot is causing lead poisoning in wildlife.

Let's first impose martial law upon those who support it being imposed on others - not that I really support that

IMHO-2730490, If you truly advocate the imposition of martial law, then you truly have no idea what martial law really is.

I totally agree. The problem is, the death row inmates just sit on death row for years at tax payers expense. What they need is swift justice like in the old days when they were found guility and then taken in and hung up.

@guenavere, while I agree with you about death row I'm not sure if I would RUSH their execution. I only say this because I'm an undergrad student of CrimJus and over the past two years we've had to study the cases of many men (haven't come across any women yet) that have just BARELY escaped death row (after being found innocent through DNA evidence). Once the system takes a life it can give it back if evidence later surfaces to prove that the dead is TRULY innocent. As much as I hate the length time an inmate sits on death row, I can't think of a way to curtail the system without quite possibly killing an innocent man.

In the old days they'd usually hang the closest "criminal", outsider, minority, veteran, drunk etc to wherever the crime happened. We really don't want to go back to the old days. At least I don't. @!$%# the old days.

OHGuy, remember a few years ago, a woman from Georgia shot her preacher husband as he slept? She is free today. The death penalty will never be given out according to the crime. It will be mostly given to blacks and white males from trailer parks.

Statistical having the death penalty has no effect on the homicide rate.

Really if killing another person is the most horrifying thing you can do...

why would we as a society want to do it?

Who cares what the statistics say about the death penalty no being a deterrent What it does is prevent the murderer from ever hurting any one else ever, inside or outside prison. As long as they are alive there is always a chance of them getting free. With the world being so overpopulated there is no reason to let them allow evil men to live.

3 reasons against the death sentence.

1. You're punishing a killer by killing them

2. You might not even know if they did it

3. They get an easy way out

singe

I don't know how you came up with that, but I do know why. It's because you are un-informed. England has a higher percentage of violent crime and last time I checked they are not in the middle of a civil war or anarchy. Ten country's listed in Europe are all higher than the U.S. I'm not bashing Europe, just stating facts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz0SnNxHvJC

Because Europe is not really Europe anymore...

Recent Killings in France?

I don't know how you came up with that, but I do know why. It's because you are un-informed. England has a higher percentage of violent crime and last time I checked they are not in the middle of a civil war or anarchy. Ten country's listed in Europe are all higher than the U.S. I'm not bashing Europe, just stating facts.

The Daily Mail piece you just put there has more to do with violent crime than violent deaths (though it does make a reference to the homicide rate, which is not high). Britain and most of Europe are faring a lot better than the US when it comes to homicide rates, and significantly so.

In 2000, the European Union as a whole registered 1,260 firearm fatalities. The US registered 10,801. That's quite a difference.

Source: Jean Lemaire, "The Cost of Firearm Deaths in the United States: Reduced Life Expectancies and Increased Insurance Costs", Journal of Risk and Insurance, 2005, available at: knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1294.pdf

Coon and Friends

If you want intentional homicide specifically, here it is, in relation to the rest of the world. U.S. ranks 34th.

As I stated at 7.1, that was not a knock on Europe. Just pointing out that the U.S. is not #1 in level of violence as alluded to by Singe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

@whichasha

While singe's claim is incorrect (e.g. many countries like Brazil and El Salvador have many times more homicides per 100,000 people than the US), the table you just linked shows the US is doing significantly worse than all of Western Europe. The few European countries that are doing worse than the US are all in Eastern Europe (e.g. Lithuania, Russia), and that has more to do with organized crime than with gun laws.

The original post I responded to made no mention of homicide. Only level of violence. My reply stands as is.

The original post was made in the context of a news article about a father that was killed by a barrage of bullets, and therefore I take it to be aimed at firearm homicides (especially considering his next comment addressed gun violence in particular). If you read the post without taking into account the context, then you are correct.

Alright. Lets take it in the context of the report. Singe is still wrong, as shown in my second link. There are 33 countries ahead of the U.S. in intentional homicide. It is high unlikely that they are all involved in civil war and/or anarchy.

I totally agree that singe was wrong, but your reply implied that there are 10 European countries (including Britain) that are doing worse than the US - which is correct only if you don't take into account the context of the original post.

My reply implied that the United States is not the most crime ridden country in the world. Regardless of the type of crime or the other countries that make up the planet.

The end.

You think for one moment they wouldn't find another way?

There's always a way to kill someone if you are really determined. But why make it so easy???

It's easier to shoot someone with a gun than it is to get up close to them and use a knife.

Guns are for sissies.

There are more ways to kill a man, than there are ways to make love to a woman. You either use fear, or love, and there's allot more fear in the world right now. The Dead father, to at which this these post are supposed to be about, used LOVE. Let this man be an example to us all. Hate killed the man, Love saved the son. For the record, I am a gun owner, and don't think for a second that I wouldn't take your life, to save the life of a child. You all can scream all day from one side of the fence, or the other, But a MAN walks the line. Rest in Peace Hero...

I see. Christ is the answer, but in the mean time, we need to murder some folks...

haha i like that one.

What scripture would that be where God expects us to murder lost souls? @@

No, did you read the article? We almost have to assume that since the police are looking for two cars it would seem a fight broke out between those fun loving prankster gang bangers. Or was it two cars that were trying to kill the father? We don't know and you don't know jackshiat.

No, he would have died in the same senseless barrage of bullets from the likely same black market guns as he did. The nuts are the people that are naive enough to think that gun control will control guns.

@RJMcBean - Well said.

Folks it's a tragedy brought on more from lack of education and self worth than from gun control. Until you change the culture that glorifies the drugs and violence you won't stop the killings. It's a shame that an innocent man trying to spend a day with his boy had to give his life in this way.

I agree....gun control would not have stopped this tragedy. Thugs are going to get guns one way or another with or without gun control. Taking our right to bear arms away is not the answer. I pray that this family finds peace one day and those low life sons of bitches are caught and rot in hell!

Taking our right to bear arms away is not the answer.

I completely agree. You cannot take away the right to keep and bear arms, as it is GUARANTEED in the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution.

But you can regulate gun ownership.

For example, in the 1930s, in response to the violene done by gangs who used machine guns as their favorite weapon, congress passed the National Firearms Act. That law made it difficult for civilians to get machine guns. Today, violence with machine guns is not a problem. So, if there are certain kinds of firearms that are used today in a majority of the violent crime, oh, say maybe, hand guns, we might consider adding those types of weapons to the list of Title II weapons, so that we may have fewer of those in our society, over time, and less of the violence associated with them.

Thank You Bunkie11.

Not so.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html#ixzz0SnNxHvJC

Octavious, please don't spew statistics you know nothing about.

Octavious...you are the moron.....you have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't you log out and let the grown ups talk.....also, if this country disgusts you so much...get the hell out...you are free to leave anytime!

I agree. How does Obama seem to be the reason for everything wrong? Inglewood has been having drive-by shootings for the last 20 years long before Obams was a household name. Maybe we should blame Bush, Clinton and Bush Sr as well.

The man was a hero to give his life for son.

All I can say is AMEN

The "protesters" can't face the fact that some men are evil and it is way too easy to blame an object than face reality. This is just one more anti gun catnip that will be pawed about today.

Maybe they are waiting for the shooters to be identified, so they can find out who to target instead of just randomly marching the streets. I pray that the shooters are caught and also the location of where they may have gotten thier weapons from. If they where stolen folks need to wake up and learn they need to secure their guns or face charges when those guns are used in a crime. If they were purchased we need to crack down on these traveling gun shows that allow people to buy guns as if they are at a dolllar store.

This dad is the guy George Zimmerman wishes he was. A true hero. And I fail to see what is wrong with protesting. Tea Party nuts angrily protest all the time.

You're right, and he (Cosby) was raked over the coals for it. Kinda says something, doesn't it'.

He sure did. I know if I was living in a kind of lifestyle, or even just a kind of general geographic area where I knew this stuff happened and I didn't have much of a chance for leaving, I wouldn't be having kids. I would not want to take a chance on some innocent getting caught up in the lifestyle. This father was brave, and a real man, and I feel so sorry for the kids being brought up in this kind of pathos, because there just doesn't seem to be any kind of hope or direction.

Why do everyone think it's black folks doing the killing? When I was in high school it was it was white guys running around the schoolyard brandishing firearms. If you fought one and was winning, everyone and thier grandad (literally)would come and try join in or intimitate you. (talk about ghetto gangsters) Instead of protesting about where the president was born or people that come here seeking work at the request of those who don't want to pay you a decent salary, why not protest all the 1st and 2nd generation european insticators who come here and basicly act as anarchist to bring this country to the level of the one they ran from. Why not protest or rile up against the folks who are using and influencing you to act against your own best interest. As bad as other groups say blacks are they only go after the ones that are trying to live a decent life, and steer a very wide birth from the so called gangbanger (someone of thier same temperment) everyone talks about.

I think our country would have much more harmony between races if Bill Cosby were President. People used to get along much better.

Jeanette, people would get along a lot better wouldn't they. I just wish that when Bill Cosby speaks he would get the media coverage like al, jessie, and spike gets!

jeanette... roc... Bill Cosby? Of course not. A person that "makes sense" can't possibly make the news!

I cant figure out why people are devoted to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and others Left and Right that do nothing but spew trash but a person like Mr Cosby that just makes common sense is all but ignored or trashed by the media?

Jackson and Sharpton got involved because the police are covering up for that dope Zimmerman.

It's ridiculous to imply that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson don't care about black on black crime. Sure, they're blowhards and love the media, but they do speak out against this kind of crime, as well. It's just not as sensationalized. A few years ago, Al Sharpton visited a family in Akron who had been attacked by a group of black teens. It's easy and convenient to say that they do nothing about it, but it's not true.

Do us all a favor and figure it out yourself, so we can be spared of your misguided posts, next time come forth as an intelligent, educated individual. Because all I've ever read from Freemannogod has been rather listless.

Might as well end your posts with a .tk

this is in reply to Freemannogod:

Its because the media is corrupt and the agenda they are complicit with is one of elimination of LIBERTIES not race relations, racially motivated criminal acts or conspiratorially preposterous hypothetical theories. It is an agenda that is being presented by the people that control the media and our governing bodies that want to convince "society" that we are in need of more laws and more police to make us safe, when the fact is it is these people that we need protection against. How often do we see stories about someone genuinely and clearly using a firearm to defend himself and his family or something along that line. Ahh never....why do you think that is? Because people like Eric Holder stated in 1995 or 96 while Asst Atty General that "we need to Brainwash the public against guns through a concerted effort using the media" and if anyone wants a link to the video of him making this statement I will provide that link if requested. What we have to realize and reject is the use of tragic events as a tool of furthering the agendas of these people.

Tocco, Thank You!

No Media coverage you wont see al, jessie or spike there. They are just media whores to get their face in the media.

Yeah black on black killing are not worth stirring rage and racism. I guess the main stream media doesn't think same race killings are note worthy. Hypocrites!

I can only go by what the article said about the race of the people involved, perhaps they are hiding information, perhaps not, but I read "Police do not have suspect descriptions for any of these shootings."

Exactly Juan. It will get a blip on the internet news and then end of story. But if the perps turn out to be white or "white hispanic" and the murdered man was black. The good Rev's will catch the next plane to LA to lead a protest. But if it is black on black crime or hispanic on hispanic crime, not even a comment from them. Heaven forbid it to be white on white crime, then there would be no story at all. Or maybe the "New Black Panthers" will offer a reward for their heads. I thought that was a crime to order a hit on anyone in this country. But the rules keep changing according to what color you are I guess. Do you remember this past St. Patrick's Day weekend in Chicago and all the killing's including a little girl in her front yard? No Al or Jesse leading protest and demanding an arrest on that terrible crime spree, or Pres. Obama saying the little girl looks like his daughters.....No it was black on black crime so therefore nothing to see here folks move along. Also why is the government buying a hugh amount of very powerful ammunition, oh that's for Homeland Security. Yep folks that's for us here in the US. Any crime of this nature is horrible I don't care what color or religion you are. Wrong is Wrong. Hopefully justice will be done to those who commited this crime and my thoughts are with the family and the little boy. He will have to grow up and remember that awful day his father was killed trying to save him.

Well said John. What a sad story. A defenseless father, shot multiple times, sacrificing his life to save his child. Almost as sad is the policemans acknowledgement that the investigation "isn't going well" and that two other shootings were reported in the same story. What are the residents of that community to think? One can only wonder if the outcome would have been different if the father and his neighbors were armed. What if they had a "stand your ground" law in force? If others had the will and means to protect themselves would the perpetrators still be walking around, threatening and murdering others? The police can't protect everyone all the time. Based on this story, neither the local police nor justice system are up to the task. I'm sure it will be a long time, if ever before the man's wife, mother and child feel safe enough to close their eyes at night. My advice would be to learn how to shoot a gun, encourage your neighbors to do the same, and then go buy one.

Ya, if the kid has a Glock he would be ok?? PS my neighbor is a "tweaker" and has a gun already, does not need another one!

Here in Tucson the criminals have more guns and shoot first, "law abiding" citizens just die, first to shoot wins, by the time you see their gun it is too late.