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Updated at 2:39 p.m. ET: Officials said Saturday they were astonished that apparently no one was killed and only a few people hurt when a U.S. Navy fighter jet malfunctioned and crashed in a fireball into a Virginia Beach, Va., apartment complex.
All residents in the complex have been accounted for, rescue officials said.
“We are so blessed and believe a miracle has occurred here,” Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms said at an afternoon press conference with Navy officials.
“The mayor and I both agreed that if you wanted to define a miracle, this defined it for me,” added Navy Adm. John Harvey Jr., head of U.S. Fleet Forces Command based in Norfolk.
Zooming along at 170 mph in a fighter jet carrying thousands of pounds of volatile fuel, two Navy pilots faced nothing but bad choices Friday when their aircraft malfunctioned over Virginia's most populated city.
"Catastrophic engine system failure right after takeoff, which is always the most critical phase of flying, leaves very, very few options," aviation safety expert and decorated pilot J.F. Joseph told The Associated Press. "You literally run out of altitude, air speed and ideas all at the same time," he said.
The Navy has launched an internal investigation to find out more about why a fighter jet crashed into an apartment complex in Virginia. As of Friday there were no reported fatalities. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
The men ejected from their F/A-18D jet moments before it slammed into the Mayfair Mews apartment complex courtyard. The pilots and five on the ground were hurt, but all had been released from the hospital.
Some 40 apartment units were damaged or destroyed. Officials scoured the blackened shells for bodies but found none.
Virginia Beach Fire Department Battalion Chief Tim Riley said that could change if, for instance, authorities did not know about a guest that had been staying in an apartment.
Still, officials said they were surprised the accident had not claimed any lives.
“We consider ourselves very fortunate," Riley told The Associated Press earlier Saturday.
Harvey thanked citizens who rushed to the crash site and pulled the pilots to safety, dragged fire hoses into place and helped evacuate residents from the apartments.
Frank Thorp V / NBC News
People whose property suffered damage in the crash an F/A-18 crash in Virginia Beach speak with Navy lawyers about their claims.
“It was a pretty amazing display in Virginia Beach of what citizenship really means,” he said.
Riley said officials are now attending to the needs of the 60 or so residents whose apartment units were destroyed, including finding long-term housing for them
The burned aircraft was still lodged in the apartment complex Saturday morning. Crews were working on a plan to deal with the clean-up, which could take days, The Virginian-Pilot reported.
Harvey said an investigation into what went wrong will likely take weeks. That will include interviewing the two pilots who ejected and listening to the flight recorders onboard the plane.
Hours after the crash Friday, Nay officials said the F-18 fighter jet crashed suffered a "catastrophic mechanical malfunction” shortly after takeoff.
The airmen were from Naval Air Station Oceana, less than 10 miles away.
Navy jet crash: 'My whole backyard was on fire'
The aircraft weighs up to 50,000 pounds fully fueled and armed. The two-seat jet had dumped loads of fuel before crashing, though it wasn't clear if that was because of a malfunction or an intentional maneuver by the pilots, said Capt. Mark Weisgerber with U.S. Fleet Forces Command.
The plane not having as much fuel on board "mitigated what could have been an absolute massive, massive fireball and fire," Virginia Beach EMS division chief Bruce Nedelka said. With all of that jet fuel dumped, it was much less than what it could have been."
Bill Tiernan / AP
Emergency personal gather at the scene of a jet crash Friday, April 6, 2012 in Virginia Beach, Va.
The crash happened in the Hampton Roads area, which has a large concentration of military bases, including Naval Station Norfolk, the largest naval base in the world. Naval Air Station Oceana, where the F/A-18D that crashed was assigned, is located in Virginia Beach. Both pilots were from Virginia Beach, Weisgerber said.
Neighbors rushed to the scene, and some jumped into action to help. One woman told NBC News reporter Thanh Truong that she and others pulled four people from one building just before it collapsed.
Another witness, Colby Smith, said his house started shaking and then the power went out, as he saw a red and orange blaze outside his window. He ran outside, saw billowing black smoke and then came upon a tangled pilot as he ran to a friend's home, The Associated Press reported.
"I saw the parachute on the house and he was still connected to it, and he was lying on the ground with his face full of blood," Smith said.
"The pilot said, 'I'm sorry for destroying your house,'" Smith told the AP.
NBC News, msnbc.com staff and The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
I'm just amazed we haven't yet been subjected to the usual "the good Lord was watching out for us" nonsense. If "the good Lord" were actually watching out for us, the plane wouldn't have gone down. Or maybe "the good Lord" caused the crash, and it was just dumb luck that no one was killed.
Your comment is just plain ignorant , no more to say.
"Luck", dumb or otherwise, had nothing to do with this. Luck does not exist...God had his hand in there and protected everyone. These folks have a purpose in life that has not yet been fulfilled. Everything that happens, happens for a reason whether WE realize it or not. I will be praying for everyone involved to see their lives get back to normal as quickly as possible.
After the Joplin tornado, I was just exasperated from hearing people rant on and on about how God saved them - such as their car was destroyed, but saved them and their house.
This tornado left 160 people dead and many more severely injured. People lost their precious children. I felt it was very hurtful to hear people talk about how God saved their family, disregarding the fact that others DID lose their families. So, were the people spared better than those who weren't? Was God trying to teach those who lost more some kind of lesson?
Even the Bible says that "it rains on the just and the unjust".
Did the families of missing children who were returned pray harder than those whose children were murdered?
Early Out's comment was very logical. I share his sentiments.
Religion allows people to not have to inconvenience themselves with things like the dire warnings from scientists about climate change from the buring of fossil fuels leading to increased incidence of destructive storms.
Here's the problem. Some people go through these steps:
But it's equally logical (well, equally illogical, actually, since it's circular reasoning) to go through a different sequence:
The believers then say that the Bible tells us that there's a loving god, so that proves it. These folks have apparently never read the Old Testament. The god described in that part of the Bible is vindictive, jealous, murderous, and downright psychopathic. He's your worst nightmare.
And prayer? Are you trying to persuade your god to change his mind? Are you trying to get him to pay attention to something that has escaped his notice? What kind of capricious, inattentive creature is this you're worshipping?
Finally, there's the ultimate cop-out: "God works in mysterious ways." In other words, "Yes, I know none of this makes any rational sense whatsoever, and even any reasonably bright seven-year-old would reject it out of hand, but I believe it anyway." "Here's your sign," as Bill Engvall would say.
Of course, you can escape all of this by recognizing that things happen because of some fundamental laws of physics, coupled with simple probability. There's no need to invent sky pixies to explain any of it.
Early...your last two sentences pretty much sums it up for me.
Let's see a crash that certainly could have killed dozens apparently might not have killed anyone. Yes, the good Lord was watching and protecting. Don't question God's will; it is so much bigger than you and me.
Also, if one believes in an all-knowing god, prayer is useless, because you're asking god to change his mind, which means god isn't all-knowing. Plus, god knows who is going to pray and who isn't. And it gets very circular and illogical.
"People ran with a knife to free him..."
Imagine after you've crashed - seeing a mob with knives coming at you.
@John: Why did he make the plane crash?
God know deep inside you fight the urge to come to know him. Why dont you give in and try it. Too many speak that have never picked up the book to try to learn. It is easier to reject than it is to learn. Learnig takes effort and critisizem is just words from a fools mouth.
Karen honey...I was brought up in a Baptist household. I have just a few words to describe the "atmosphere": hypocrisy, xenophobia, homophobia, judgmental, and visceral hatefulness window-dressed with words like "...but god loves you."
It's a wonder I made it out without slicing my wrists. I know full well what comes out of a fool's mouth...I heard it 24/7 for the first 18 years of my life.
Early Out - some one posted that 'Your comment is just plain ignorant , no more to say.' litttle did that person know that he is actuallly corrrec! Your comment is just plain ignorant - specifically ignorant of any acquaintance with Western Philospophy of the last three hundred years. Oh welll - most people are philosophical illiterates. If you choose to educate yourself on the specific topic you brought up I'd recommend Immanuel Kant - who, through sheeer brilliance proved to the satisfaction of almost everyone that there is not possible prooof or disproof of a supreme being. Ultimately - it's a matter of faith- which om might call opinion.
#1.1 - Sat Apr 7, 2012 8:03 AM EDT
It is simply amazing that no one has died from a wreck that could have killed many. And THAT is what we are thankful for. Attribute it to what you will, everybody is alive (I still hope.) To be thankful and rejoicing is the result and so we do. The "avenue" for rejoicing is what many disagree about, choose what you will, then live and let live.
God had a hand in this? Someone wrote those who escaped death still have a purpose in life. I would like to know when a baby or toddler dies, did they fulfill their purpose or did they not have a pupose? For those who say you must be "born again" then those same babies and toddlers never "accepting" Jesus and born a sinner are doomed to hell forever, thanks God.
mjk- Jesus said that you can handle yourself at age 12. When you are 12, you start to understand things better. If a baby dies, he/she goes to heaven because the baby was not 12 when he/she died. Also, why do athiests expect god to make their lives a la-la-land? If god were to make our lives perfect, there would be no point in living on this Earth.
I happen to live here in Virginia Beach and yes, I do believe it is a true miracle that (so far) no one has been reported missing and no fatalities have been found in the destroyed apartments. Even if there turns out to be some deaths from this, it really is amazing the aim of the fighter pilot had to hit the courtyard and not one of the many buildings in the area. The fuel that either spilled by accident or on purpose is what burned the buildings but both pilots stayed with that jet till the last seconds...they are to be commended for their bravery. The one pilot's first words to one citizen was that he was sorry he destroyed their home....that says a lot about his character.
I also want to thank all the first responders, navy personnel and the team at Sentara treating those that were wounded. Thank you to all the brave citizens that helped out their neighbors and showed brotherly love and support. Thank you Mayor Sessoms for you leadership as well. God bless you all.
It is ultimately everyone's choice as to whether they want to believe in God but you must understand that is what FAITH is all about and those of us of faith chose to believe that there is a higher power and we all have a roll to play in this life and we try to follow God's will for our lives. God gave us free will and we make that choice to either serve Him or turn away. Science will not save your soul. The human body is way too complicated to have just "poof" came out of nowhere. If you are a person of faith, you will see God in everything around you. God does not destroy, God does not MAKE bad things happen however things do happen for a reason, we are too small to question those reasons. This is in part what faith is all about.
I chose to believe that Christ died for me and God has a purpose for me and those who believe in Him. You can believe in your "sky pixies" because my friend if you are wrong then what kind of afterlife will you have? If I am right, I will have Heaven. Think about that. I will pray that you give God a chance. He's pretty awesome. God was watching over us here in Virginia Beach, no one can tell me otherwise.
Happy Easter, He is Risen!
Well said bchredhead!
Karen,
What you do NOT realize is that most of us who no longer believe in a supreme deity DO know about relgion.
In my case, my father taught at a Christian college and was a fine devout man. I went to a Christian college, studied apologetics and Christian evidences and the Bible at lenght. I most likely know the Bible better than 99% of the religious bloggers on this site. I attended evangelical churches for 31 years!
Then, thanks to the hate and vile that started coming from the relgious right- as they tried to mix politics and relgion together, I began finally thinking for myself. And guess what? I came to the conclusion that 99% of religion is illogical, is unscientific and the evidences against a supreme being far exceed the notions for one.
I cannot tell you how wonderful my life has been getting out of all that.
Random and bchredhead - If your choice is to believe in the divine, then knock yourself out. I just don't understand why you have such propensity to have to "force" your beliefs on others.
And Random, I don't "expect god to make my life a la-la-land." As Earlyout simply stated above, life is nothing more than a series of events brought about by physics, science and probability. Nothing more....nothing less.
You can always bet on the agnostic/atheist trolls to come out of the woodwork on events such as this. God gave us free will just as he gave us life on this planet. We are free to kill ourselves, or kill others. He will not prevent that from happening. We are all going to die one day and meet our Creator. Denial of a higher entity is the precipice of the arrogance of humanity. We are all on this earth for a reason, not because of some freak random meteor event that happened five billion years ago that grew and evolved into what life is on earth today...including us.
I actually enjoy reading comments from the Higher Entity Deniers. Usually, they are liberals. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion...except the sound of the crumpling is that of the soul. Their anger at those who trust and know and believe in God speaks volumes. Their blood pressure skyrockets when a prayer is made at a public event. And don't get them going on what's printed on our money!
I'll close with this thought: if I'm wrong (we are wrong...the overwhelming majority of people around the globe believe in a Supreme Being even if they have different names for Him under different religions) and God doesn't exist, I have lost nothing. If I (we) are right and God does exist, the nonbelievers will have lost everything.
@10tacle
You say god gave us free will but as you say, we HAVE to believe in something we cant choose to. And if we don't then we are forever doom to hell.
your god is a Oxymoron
What's the point of giving us free will if we'll be eternally damned for not believing in something? That goes against the whole point of giving us free will.
You're just afraid of something of the "What if there is a god, I dont want to burn in hell blah blah blah"
@Wiz - the problem with you atheists/agnostics is that you people have a hard time separating an inherent belief and faith in a higher deity with that what you see around you. You people think you are your own gods. Go ahead and kill yourself and put your theory that God doesn't exist to the test. Oh wait, you don't want to do that, do you? It doesn't feel right, does it? You weren't meant to be born and then read my post just now and kill yourself, were you? Uh huh. There is a plan for you in life after all. You just can't see it. Nor were you meant to see it. Yet.
And as every Christian knows (and maybe those of Islam and other religions)...when you meet your creator you will be judged. But, you will be given a choice whether or not you were a believer on earth: join God or join Satan. You have to choose to be condemned to hell. THAT is what you atheists/agnostics don't understand the most in your Disbelief.
There are countless near-death experiences from people across the globe experiencing the after life sharing similar stories and what they saw. And yes, I've read all the "experts" telling us that the experiences are nothing more than the lack of oxygen to the brain and other nonsense.
Well, in any event, I'm not going to judge you like you agnostics/atheists judge us. We will all ultimately find out who is right and who is wrong when the time comes. And make no mistake, that time WILL come.
Oh, what utter nonsense. You people cannot even prove your cult belief is the right one, or that your particular cult god even exists! Instead you run around making silly statements like this, as if it was factual. People were actually convined that some cult-god or jesus-creature had a hand in their survival of the 9/11 incident at the WTC. But, I guess god hated everyone who died that day, or figure it was time to kill them for some reason so THEIR families qoudl have to grive and suffer.
It's nothing more than religious nuttery and self-important nonsense.
10tacle...please refer to my comments above where I mention hypocrisy. Your comments are putrid with it and you are a fine example why I choose to not even bother with this argument anymore.
You go right on ahead and worship your sky daddy. As Wiz says, you're just afraid of death and the fact that there is nothing after it for every human being.
Oilman - I am not attacking you atheists/agnostics like you people have attacked us. One of us is right, and one of us is wrong. That is an undeniable fact. Is it not? Why do you people get so defensive and go on the offensive? Are you people that insecure?
Now I'll ask you a direct question and I challenge you with a direct answer: where have I attempted to ram my beliefs down your throat? I'll wait. That's yet another misunderstanding you people have. There are radicals and moderates everywhere. Radical right, radical left, radical atheists, radical Christians, radical Islamists.
With that said, I sure do see you liberal atheists/agnostics (and even so-called "Christian" liberals) ramming YOUR beliefs down OUR throats.
And another thing: only you agnostics/atheists can spin the story of a crashed F/A-18F Super Hornet into a war on religion. Someone says "thank God..." and you people go into convulsions and attack. So tell me...are you one of those people that uses a Sharpie to black out "In God We Trust" on your money?
Certainly whether there is a God or not can be debated, as it has for millennia. Nonetheless, it seems to me the atheists take very weak positions quite often. Two of those weak positions are:
1) "God" of the bible does not act according to human logic/morality, so "God" is not real. The problem: Any God capable of fantastic feats of creation is going to be smarter than a person. Smarter, to such an extent, that a person would not be able to comprehend the mind of God. If a person COULD comprehend things the same way God does, and the human COULD naturally look at God's acts and say "yeah, I would have done it that way myself," then the human is equal to God in understanding. Any God with boundless intelligence, should act CONTRARY to human expectations at almost every turn.
An example is when someone criticizes the old testament God for being bloodthirsty. He killed plenty of the women, children and men of the nations surrounding the Jews. Had the nations remained, the Jews would have been killed, or absorbed into the other nations. Had that occurred, the messiah would not have been able to come. Had the messiah not come, humankind could never be forgiven. And thus, would come to an end. What problem is it for God to eternally resurrect those he had killed earlier at the right time? To God, it's like a five minute "time-out" for a problem child. To us, it seems completely different.
As a point of fact, the Jews did not kill everyone that God commanded. Some of those pagan nations remained in the land of Canaan (Israel). The Jews killed enough, so that the Jews were able to pull through; but look what happened. Some of those nations survived, and continued. And now what we have are a billion muslims in that region. Had the Jews killed them all as God said, the landscape of the middle east would be vastly different today. And there would be much more peace in the world now.
2) Using science to answer the question of God's existence. Science is geared to explaining "how," not "why." Though it is useful for coming to knowledge, and I believe assists in understanding God's mind, it cannot answer the big question of whether God exists. The physical world had a beginning, it is a creation. God exists outside this physical world, and is not subject to it. Therefore, the question "what existed before God?" is ridiculous, because it assumes that God is subject to time. Time is a consequence of creation. Before the universe, there was no time. So there cannot be any before or after questions, since those are terms that describe events in the relative stream of time. The related question of "who created God" is the same thing; it assumes God had a starting point. In order for there to be a starting point, time has to exist before the event. Which it didn't. In short, you can't use physical science to answer questions concerning events that would have occurred outside the physical system.
Praise the Lord! I sincerely believe that Jesus intervened in this crash. Also, the pilots did a great job of minimizing the damage on the ground before they ejected. I don't think the pilots could have done a better job, but I know Jesus helped them.
James 43 wrote:
How many terrible things are happening in the world right this second? Thousands? Millions? This curious Jesus fellow must be very, very busy.
I just love how this thread became a debate about the existence of God, His or Her capabilities, love, hate, knowledge, abilities to reach in from the supernatural to the natural world and fiddle with the laws of nature.
I'm not saying that doesn't happen but a very smart guy named Moses presented the world with a set of commandments and one of them, I'm not sure which, suggests that it is not a good idea to mess with idols. For me, attributing human characteristics such as hands and feet, sight and hearing, and finally intellect to this 'divine entity' for lack of a better word, is akin to idolatry, but your are all free to believe what you wish.
As for the "Miracle of Virginia Beach," I think both believers and non-believers are grateful no one was found dead or seriously injured.
Dear Dr. Cat: Jesus is indeed very busy. It has taken alot to get humanity this far.
God is a douchebag.
It's a miracle that more people weren't hurt... the great Pulitzer prize writer wrote... LOL....
It was mere "CHANCE" that the people weren't home... they were at work...! Something that great Pulitzer prize winners don't know anything about...!
Miracle... LMAO...! It would be a miracle if that make believe deadbeat father who got a virgin pregnant, then years later allowed people to nail him to a cross and killed him...
It would be a ..."Miracle"... if this so-called ..."god"... actually did something....!!!
Oh wait... he can't... because he doesn't exist...!!!
God does not cause bad things to happen, and God can not prevent all bad things from happening. satan is the cause of all horrible and evil acts and events.
BTW, im not really even the religious type
How the hell did this turn into a religious debate? Really people, this is one reason I don't comment here that much anymore. I'm an agnostic, but if people want to thank God for saving them, so be it, it's their personal preference and it has deep meaning for them. Let's respect that. This country is so polarized it hurts.
the pilot crew fought it to the last second,they even landed in the complex; good show on their part.
Didn't take the Hater very long to show up, did it? Never does.
Nothing more to say on that. It/she/he isn't worth wasting more time on.
I believe in God but I don't think he causes bad things to happen to people. I do believe in the power of prayer, why are some prayers answered and some not? I don't know. We should just let everyone believe what they want. Whatever gets you through the days. If you don't believe in God that's fine by me, I don't care, it's your business I still respect you if you are a good person. If you do, thats fine too. People need to mind their own business and live and let live.
Amazing. So glad no one got killed.
Agreed. The Good Lord knew it wasn't their time.
NISSAN
My washing machine broke down, but the Good Lord knew I needed to get those clothes in the dryer to wear the next day, so he caused it to happen at the end of the spin cycle!
Make any sense to you? Tragically, & Probably, Yes,,,,
Snyderman your not required to believe in God but your hero Obama will require you to follow the quran if hios plans to rig the election are realized.
Nissan, then all the people that got killed by those tornadoes must of been evil people since it was their time to go. There is a mass murderer in our state that hasn't been caught in over 10 years...good thing God is looking out after him keeping him a free man.
@snyder...make a list before you die. 1. buried in a thong and flip-flops, 2. extra thong because you are going to need it when you take your last breath here on earth and are sent to your eternity....you' are going to snit your thong, hence the extra thong. It is hot, hot, hot there.
The people who make fun of others who believe in God....you do it because you are afraid. You believe in nothing, have no morals which means you do not feel that a higher power than you or anyone else can reach down and help.
I feel sorry for you and others like you. I can't even imagine what it would feel like to know that God and turned away from me and said "I know you not". When the name of God comes up and the out-pouring of rage, mockers, etc., only means you know you are wrong.
@Nissan...don't listen to the idiocy of a few people. Your comment is correct and right where we need to be in our hearts. Everbody who doesn't like my comment, tough, you have no belief system which makes you afraid and at the same time dangerous.
On occasion of Good Friday, the Good Lord ONLY allowed 63 homes to be destroyed but mercifully saved all lives. I came home in the evening and I got a Groupon from another Lord who claims he much more merciful and wouldn't even allow destruction of half the homes. I love Groupon. I think I will take him on that.
I guess we all have thoughts on tragedy...some feel and need to pray, others like to redicule that need. I have found that the Cross and what happened there shows the heart of God. Those who don't except the truth of that will still learn the truth.
So, the good lord that you hand-mumble to ----- he decided it was time to wreck a plane and demolish an apartment building?
It's amazing how insecure religious people are. They jump onto the shoulders of EVERY tragedy like this and use it to shriek and preach about their cult nonsense. They can never seem to STFU about their cult gibberish.
Didn't you know, the devil made the plane crash and a god made sure no one was home.
Too bad god didn't have that same thought in mind on 9/11...but the devil sure did.
LOL @ Religious Nutters....
@Mike48, A person doesn't have to be evil to die, we all are leaving this world. When we took our first breath, we were on our way to take our last breath. God gave us life, so He can take it whenever He chose to for whatever reason..and He is faithful and just in doing so...TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!!
Tann-5252982 wrote:
I've always found it curious why so many people are afraid to die, then. Ever choke on a piece of steak? Did you say, "Praise Jesus!," or were your thoughts more like, "Oh fvck!"
Will
You don't need a religion to have a set of morals. People who think that way are just plain ignorant.
Yes, this is definitely a MIRACLE. How about the dangerous tornadoes in Texas this week, and again miraculously nobody died. I give all praise to Jesus for these two miracles this week. Does anyone contribute these miracles to this week being the holliest week of the year, Easter week. I surely do. You think this is a coincidence? For me, it would be harder to believe that these two ocasions were a coincidence than that they were miracles performed by the Lord Jesus. Happy Easter!
since you cannot even prove that your cult's jesus-creature exists, your comments are uninteresting. if this clown did exist, and he allows people to be stupid enough to live in tornado alley, and saev stupid people during a tornado here and there -- but he is enough of a sick, twisted, sadistic low-life POS to fill hospitals everywhere full of small children dying of cancer -- then your jesus-creature is welcome to come lick my behind before i wipe.
Cheers!
Those are only mythical cult claims. There is no evidence to support that nuttery, anymore than there is evidence to show leprechauns exist.
I see Many want to thank their imaginary friend in the sky but make no bones about it, If you lived in the area for any length of time like I have, you knew this was going to happen eventually. Thank the people that took action and the pilots for following procedures. Not your fake buddy that's half assed and only saves and protects "his" people when it's convenient for him. Jackasses!
If god exists, he's a real underachiever.
both of you, immediately above... well said.
Really funny how the atheist say don't ry to force religion us but they are ALWAYS the ones to start it and ridicule believers...why? Are you insecure, scared or what? It makes no sense to ridicule chrisitians especially when they make no attempt to sell you on it. I am a christian and could care less what you believe or disbelieve...completely max niche! Crazy times, takes all types to make this world go around.
I am a religious person & God is a huge part of my life...but I strongly disagree w/ those who say things such as "God spared their lives" or "it wasn't their time". Ecclesiastes 9:11 clearly states that time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all. When a person dies & you say that God needed another angel in heaven or it was their time...does that sound like a loving & just God? Not to me!
Accidents happen...& people die. But God does not take their life.
Bernitch,
May God forgive you!
To comment on your comment, everyone has a choice in their lives and if one choses to live in a tornado alley then that's their decision.
@Dr.Cat... to answer you question, believe it or not, I say JESUS!!!!!!! it's not a matter of being afraid of dying, just the fact that I'm chocking..
It's a miracle that more people weren't hurt... the great Pulitzer prize writer wrote... LOL....
It was mere "CHANCE" that the people weren't home... they were at work...! Something that great Pulitzer prize winners don't know anything about...!
Miracle... LMAO...! It would be a miracle if that make believe deadbeat father who got a virgin pregnant, then years later allowed people to nail him to a cross and killed him...
It would be a ..."Miracle"... if this so-called ..."god"... actually did something....!!!
Oh wait... he can't... because he doesn't exist...!!!
Another religious conversation, convening with the typical ignorance and hateful rhetoric. First, God is not in the "smiting the evil" business or preserving lives in honor of a holiday. Such distinctions are purely antediluvian based on ancient superstitious precepts. At best, the Deist have it right, that there is a universal essence, albeit not actively engaged = passive self-existing one. While indeed, all humans have an ambiguous "faith" integer that might chose "I deny God" or "I believe in God" it is faith non-the-less. In the spirit of humanity, the God-haters should tolerate the religious nut cases, while the religious nut cases should crawl out of their proverbial box. But neither will happen. End note: Due to hate, sin, envy, greed, perversions, liars, adulterers, substance abusers, idolaters, thieves. Frankly, anyone reading this, Jesus Christ died for your sins, and his blood CAN atone for your embedded abase inclinations, but you must call his name to set you free, nothing else has the power. I have watched bodies wretch as demons flee at that name. Peace.
Just reading this is cracking me up with all the believers and nonbelievers. As I read this though, I seem to see from time to time, that SOME of the believers do not actually know who their god is. They refer to God and Jesus as the same person, but the last I knew, God was Jesus' father, thus being 2 different people. If you don't know the difference between God and Jesus, then I suggest you should go back and reread your bible.
Also, I find it funny when you quote things from the bible, the believers say "That is old testament, we don't follow that." Well the old testament IS a part of the bible correct? Either you live by the bible or you don't. For most of the believers who don't follow the old testament, they sure do follow the old testament of Leviticus. especially Leviticus 18:22, which states "do not lie with a man, as one does with a woman, that is detestable." The believers say homosexuality is a sin, and refer to this scripture. But homosexuality is not banned in the bible according to Leviticus 18 1-30. NOWHERE does it state that a woman shall not lie with another woman as one does with a man. See, even God likes a little LESBIAN sex on the side.
So I guess, when you buy your next new bible, since you dont live by the old testament, you should just cut out the old testament, or ask for a deep discount because your bible is out of date when it includes the old testament. Either you live by the bible, the ENTIRE bible (old and new testament) or you dont.
God is Christ Jesus Lord and also Father One ....peoples theology may be off, but certainly both sides of this debate are wrong, but thats just it. Man is wrong, humans die because sin caused death. whether people die or not God pulls them out, the scriptures are full of that , in ways we can and cannot see. Those that know Him praise Him either way, but many fall away when God does not help them survive or their loved ones because they believed the Bible was more a love story in human terms not a truly supernatural salvation beyond the human sight of death. It is about man turning from his Creator constantly rebelling, and we live in inherited sin, so our vision is skewed and we are good, but damaged goods, we inherited the knowledge of good and "evil" so mankind perishes a physical death, Yeshua (Jesus) is Yahweh as a person, the One true God , the Word become flesh so God could enter our hearts and make the temple the Body of Christ inside of us not a location or church building , so salvation comes to anyone who receives it, that we can enter through the door of Christ so we do not die a physical death , which more than eyes can see.
if you do not beleive it is understandable to a certain degree, but what you see is what you get than.
Nice to know the atheists here are always at the ready to show bigotry when someone so much as types the word God.
How about you talk about the story and what happened, rather than snorting and thinking you got the universe all figured out? Welcome to the real world where people have different belief systems.
People first came here to escape religious persecution and now today we still do it to ourselves. So sad. God or not it's still simply amazing that no one died, if some people want to say it was God's will so what? Does that change the fact that amazingly no one died?
I'm still baffled at the comment the bafoon made about our president, please tell me how that comment is relevant to this tragedy.
It seems you are quite the ignorant one. I am thankful that no one died and that they will get to share life with their loved ones until it is truly their time to go.
Thank God!
ISHT happens people. Keep your beliefs to yourselves. Why can't everyone just be happy nobody was killed? Keep your personal beliefs to yourselves or is that too difficult? That is what is wrong with society. Free speech and freedom of religion is fine as long as everyone agrees with YOU!! Bumper stickers are for the weak who are insecure with their own beliefs!! Love thy neighbor unless they disagree with you!! Mocking someone forbeing outspoken in their bekiefs yet YOU are indeed outspoken with YOUR beliefs of THEIR wrong beliefs..
YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS. Can't one of you simply say " Man I am really glad no one was killed" with out getting crazily upset that not everyone feels the way YOU DO?? Nut jobs, every last one\s of you.
Man I am really glad no one got killed and I hope those people get paid properly by the military and get their lives back on track!!
"I guess we all have thoughts on tragedy...some feel and need to pray, others like to redicule that need. I have found that the Cross and what happened there shows the heart of God. Those who don't except the truth of that will still learn the truth."
Should be: some feel the need to pray, others like to ridicule that need... Those who don't accept the truth of that will still learn the truth.
You should learn how to write three lines without making three errors. Then people might take your ridiculous beliefs seriously.
*********************************************
"Yes, this is definitely a MIRACLE."
It is so much more CONVINCING when you capitalize 'MIRACLE!!!!!!' But you should ALSO LEARN how to add THREE EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!
"How about the dangerous tornadoes in Texas this week, and again miraculously nobody died."
Yeah, how about them!!!
"I give all praise to Jesus for these two miracles this week. Does anyone contribute these miracles to this week being the holliest week of the year, Easter week. I surely do."
Did you mean "does anyone attribute these miracles?" Is English your native language?
"You think this is a coincidence?"
Yes.
"For me, it would be harder to believe that these two ocasions were a coincidence than that they were miracles performed by the Lord Jesus."
That's not surprising, because you are a very simple-minded person.
"Happy Easter!"
Happy Easter to you too!!! This is the day when we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ so that he could intervene one week a year and save people from tornadoes and armed forces training mishaps. As it is written, so shall it be!
Q.
What was the last thing Jesus was told?
A.
You'll have to cross your feet. We only have three nails.
BTW~ The easter bunny is just as real as jesus...
Miracles are acceptable. Senseless deaths aren't.
I am suprised this does not happen more often.
Actually, aviation training mishaps happen more often than is reported on the news. Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of these mishaps occur away from populated areas.
That's why they do so much of their training and test-flying in places like the desert southwest. There's a whole lot of "empty" out there. :)
Used to be a whole lot of empty here as well. The desert kind of discourages the kinds of civilization creep that generally follows military bases tho.
Nissan, I think he was referring to a mishap occurring in a populated area happening more often, not just a mishap in general.
On this earth we will have trouble, but God has overcome the earth. We do not have to understand why, just believe that there is a reward for those who believe that is everlasting. I choose to believe.
I choose to THINK.
Belief in mythical creeatures like your cult's god, or any other cult's god, leprechauns, or the tooth fairy -- it's jut a bunch of unprovable, mythical Religious Nuttery. Sad that some people can't grow up.
if only u knew how often
Caused by evil-doers
It has in the past. Before the Lynnhaven Mall was built, two planes went down in the field back in the mid 70s. We could see the crash sites from the bus on the way to school.
"It has in the past. Before the Lynnhaven Mall was built, two planes went down in the field back in the mid 70s. We could see the crash sites from the bus on the way to school."
Did anyone die in those incidents? If so, both God and Jesus clearly hated them.
Air Force flight training bases were chosen primarily for having the most clear weather days per year. Navy pilots mostly train near the ocean, also with clear weather. There are still lots of rural locations to fly and train over.
It is a miracle that no one was killed in this accident. It sounds like something went seriously wrong with the aircraft right after takeoff, leaving the pilot with very little he could do to avoid coming down in a populated area. Military pilots are known to do everything possible to avoid endangering anyone on the ground in situations like this, including staying with their aircraft to the point of risking their own survival. I am sure that the pilot waited until the last possible second before ejecting in order to do what he could to try and minimize the risks to tose on the ground. Ufortunately in this case he did not have the altitude or power to do much. It is only by shear luck that on one was killed, including the pilot and his NFO.
From the witness accounts, it sounds like the crew encountered a compression stall. However, we'll have to wait for the investigation to find out the truth.
No, it was quite simple. The pilots ejected. And nobody was in the area of the building that the plane hit. No miracles here today, hon. Just a serious of events that didn't lead to a death this time. No magic involved!
If the pilots had more time, they would have headed out to sea to ditch their plane, hence sparing the loss of life and property. Obviously that was not possible, since the malfunction occurred right after take-off. The Navy will thoroughly investigate the circumstances of what happened so that lessons can be learned and applied.
Bernitch--yeah, you're an atheist, and thus you're a superior being in the universe and should be given unconditional respect, right? You don't believe in God. Fine. WE ALL GET YOU. Now shut up.
Miracles are acceptable. Senseless deaths aren't.
First the tornadoes in Texas and now this and NO Fatalities. All Honor, Praise and Glory To A Loving, Mericful and Miraculous GOD! Thank You Father and Thank You JESUS!
Your "loving" and "merciful God" is allowing massive starvation across the globe. Oh, or is that supposed to be the devil?
So, it was "God" who didn't let anyone die in the Dallas-area tornadoes, but yet let people lose their children in the Joplin tornado? Joplin is every bit as religious as Dallas- probably more.
I won't start on your merciful God sending billions of people to eternal damnation.
LOL! Well, I guess when we die (and yes, we will all eventually meet our demise), we will find out if there is a God or not. Until then, try to respect the opinions of others.
If I told you that I fervently believe that the world was created by an Invisible Pink Unicorn, and that he controls everything that happens in our lives, would you respect my beliefs, or would you write me off as a loony?
What I think is of no relevance.
"What I think is of no relevance."
Certainly can't argue with that! Glad you cleared that up for us.
I always have problems choosing between the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Invisible Teapot, but all hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
Nissan
What I think is of no relevance.
Wow,,, Yeah, you should brobably stop right there,,
Go ahead and mock God. I will pray that he forgives your foolishness.
I doubt God had anything to do with this. I'm a Christian, but I don't believe that God is a master puppeteer in the sky. It makes no sense to say that it was a miracle from God that no one was killed because then you have to admit that God made the plane crash to begin with. My personal belief is that God doesn't make good things happen to us or bad things either, but He gives us the strength to handle whatever life tosses our way. I'm so glad no one was killed.
Mr. Nissan & Mr. John; Please don't forget that they have their right to believe in what they want to, as a veteran I was willing to die for that right. But, as christians we know that as we profess to know Jesus, so will Jesus profess to know us when we stand before the Father. And you have to admit we just have to feel sorry for these people who won't expend half the energy to enlighten themselves of Gods grace as they do to deny it.
Sarah- Starvation is not caused by god, it is caused by man. We could give the hungry food, but the evil governments of some countries won't let us. See, athiests expect life to be perfect if you believe in god, but it isn't.
Don't question God's will; it is so much bigger than you and me.
It would be nice if people kept their beliefs to them selves instead of flaunting them in a case like this. I see atheists in these conversations bu rarely see them flaunting or trying to make a case for their belifs however the pseudo christians that have devolved into a money racketeering thing all try to influence us in their tainted beliefs. Get a life we came here to the US for religious freedom
I am an agnostic. I have studied Christian evidences, the Bible, apologetics, bibical archaology, went to a Christian college and my father was a minister. I know the Bible better than 99% of the bloggers here. I have heard and considered- and formerly believed what you say. But no longer.
In the 1990's, when the religious right started their hateful mix of religion and politics, I began considering things in a logical manner.
I can no longer believe that a loving, merciful god would create billions of people and then throw them into an eternal fire for the rest of eternity.
I respect your beliefs- until they start harming the rest of us- like continuing to vote Republican- and allowing them to destroy our environment and taking away MEDICARE for the elderly.
Religious ideas can be very dangerous.
Now as to the facts in this case. The plane costs the f18E costs 27 million apiece. the f18F cost 59 million
Sara - I don't think I've ever read so much nonsense in one post ever. Anywhere. First of all, you liberals and your Junk Science of man-made global warming is your own religion you people are trying to ram down OUR throats! You people are upset that we eat meat because cows fart and cause global warming. You people are upset that we grill in our back yards that cause polar bears to fall off ice burgs in the arctic. We can't even forecast hurricane seasons accurately on a macro scale (see: 5 of the last 6 seasons post-Katrina..you know the Big One that was from global warming and all..had to be reduced in numbers forecast). Yet, we are to believe that driving SUVs causes drought and famine and flooding in poor nations. Laughable.
Second, Republicans don't want to destroy the environment. Do you honestly think we want to drink dirty water or visit oil-soaked beaches? Your hyperbole and rage shows exactly your lost way. Finally, you blame Republicans on cutting Medicare but completely are oblivious to the FACT that DEMOCRATS have voted to cut Medicare by FIVE HUNDRED BILLION to help fund Obamacare.
You are lost more ways than one, Sara. But then again, if you weren't lost, you wouldn't be a liberal.
Liberals think they are God. They control. They rule. They have total intelligence in all things and they created everything and therefore are all knowing and all seeing. Sorry for your divergence into the wrong Sara. I am sure your minister father is quite proud of you.
Finally, you've spoken something truthful...
I've never seen or heard a liberal claim that they are a creature that has never been proven to exist.
Unfortunately, the conservatives has done most of the controlling and ruling in this country. And every president we've ever had (since Lincoln) was a BuyBull cultist to some degree. No surprise this country is in the mess it's in...
Never heard a liberal say s/he was all-knowing, all-seeing or they s/he created everything. These attributes you describe, however, are exactly how you describe you cult god. That creature that you hand-mumble to, but can never prove its existence.
So, my question is -- since your one of your cult rules is to not lie or bear false witness, why make all these false statements about liberals? By abandoning your basic cult rules, and making false statements -- do you think this impresses people? Does telling lies make you win an argument, and impress your jesus creature? Do you think your jesus creature sits up there on a throne, wathcing you, saying "hey there, it's ok that you completely misrepresented and lied about an entire group of people, because BOY O BOY, you really threw them a curve on a message board! I'm sure impressed with your ability to lie and really make a point there, fella! VERY impressive!!" Do you really think this is how your jesus creature thinks? If so, your jesus creature is even less impressive than you are. And you don't make an impression at all.
"you liberals and your Junk Science of man-made global warming"
That same junk science that was used to design your computer, car, Iphone, and cure disease?
Oh that's a great logical retort. We can build microprocessors for computers and smart phones and see them first hand, and we can find cures (except for cancer and whatnot) in a lab. All are under controlled environments in labs, and that equates to the theories of man-made global warming (including the doctored data to get to the alleged conclusions). Brilliant observation. NOT.
It's in your words and your attitude towards those that don't believe like you.. or in this case, disbelieve like you. You say it without even saying it.
Democrats have controlled the majority of Congress for the last 60 years. We've seen how well your "war on poverty" as done for the poor in this nation. We've seen how well you people spent nearly a trillion dollars in a "stimulus" bill rammed through congress three years ago that was to keep us all out of soup lines on the streets...and keep unemployment below 8%. We've seen how well you people have managed "fair housing" legislation that led to the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that gave loans to dead beats. 'Nuff said. The rest of your post isn't worth the time, Bernitch.
Seriously, punkin you can “blame the DEMs” all you like. You can blame this mess we're in now on "the DEMS" until the cows come home... This Bush Recession, the housing and banking crash -- all at the feet of the GOP. No matter how you cut it. It’s simply ridiculous to claim otherwise.
You had a GOP Controlled White House from 2001 – 2009. And a GOP controlled Congress (BOTH houses) from 1995 – 2007. The collapse initially started in 2005 when the first wave of defaults began to show up; it picked up speed by 2006, and was in full swing by 2007. Banks starting full collapse/failure in 2008. Countrywide. IndyMac Bank. Washington Mutual - the largest S&L in the US -- all failed in 2008.
AND, try this scenario: Even if you could show this was due to Democratic controlled policy before 1995 (which you cannot) – then, with 12 years of full GOP legislative control after that in BOTH HOUSES, why the hell didn’t the GOP solve the problem before this happened? You keep claiming the GOP is brilliant, with all the talent – then what the hell happened for the 12 years they controlled both houses and the Executive Branch? Didn’t they have the talent and smarts to FIX ANYTHING? Or, were they just hoping their false economy would make them look good long enough to ride it out?
The car drove soundly into the wall. GOP Pres Bush was in the driver’s seat for all that time, as was the GOP Congress. How long you gonna try to blame this crash on someone else? When do you cowards grow your cajones enough to man-up and own your crap?
You have absolutely NO CLUE what brought us here. I'm surprised you can eat and wipe yourself without help.
And yet, the mindless claim invisible beings exist and control things like plane crashes and tornados, and prayer actually causes things to happen... all this based on NOTHING. Nothing tangible at all. BUT IT'S A FACT!! LMFAO!!!
Brilliant observation. NOT!
Bernitch - I submit this link to you on who to blame on the banking/housing collapse:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html
Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame. But it was the GOP that tried to increase regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in 2004. Guess who said "these two entities...are not in any financial difficulty" when that happened? Barney Frank. Are you going to sit behind that computer right now with a straight face and tell me your hero Obama and the Democrat-led Senate by that other empty suit Harry Reid is a success story in this nation after three years of Democrat control of Washington? Yes, the House was won back in the 2010 mid-terms, and the GOP has a real control-freak 56% majority. Wow.
And I NEVER stated the GOP was the end all of greatness. Show me where I did. I have just stated that you Democrats have your own failures as well. But if you really want to peel the onion back, look at the economic and employment data since 2006 when Democrats took over control of Washington again, which they still have to this day. They had a supermajority of Congress up to 2010 which is how Obamacare got rammed through with no GOP support. Finally, your total ignoring my comment about the obscene FAILURE of your liberal Democrat's Great Society project over the last half century speaks for itself.
But since it's congress that passes the budgets, sets the deficits, and provides legislation affecting jobs and the economy, let's look at the record of congresses over the last 30 years alone:
JOBS
Jobs created when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = 8,100,000 net new jobs.
Jobs created when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = 21,773,000 net new jobs.
Jobs created when Congress was split (8 years) = 9,888,000 net new jobs.
DEFICITS
Total Deficits when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $5.022 Trillion.
Total Deficits when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $1.219 Trillion.
Total Deficits when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.063 Trillion.
NATIONAL DEBT
Total New Debt when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $7.859 Trillion.
Total New Debt when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $3.238 Trillion.
Total New Debt when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.781 Trillion.
Draw your own conclusions, but these are undisputed facts from government sources.
Sources - Democrats controlled Congress from 1987 – 1994, and from 2007 – 2010. Republicans controlled Congress from 1995 – 2000, and from 2003 – 2006. There was a split Congress from 1980 – 1986 and for 2001 & 2002.
Jobs - http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf
Deficits - http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1
National Debt - http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
@10tacle:
Climate change is based on the same chemistry and physics, as most fruits of science you're so happy to enjoy.
If I tell you that electromagnetic waves (radio waves and light) are also particles, and particles (such as electrons and protons) behave as waves, you'd not believe it. If I'd say that very precise clock on Earth and another very precise clock on an orbiting satellite run differently, you'd not believe it.
Whether you believe it or not, the particle/wave dualism is a basis for quantum theory which explains luminescence, thermal emission (spectral distribution of your regular lightbulb), semiconductors, LEDs, magnetoresistive effects (used in a disk drive of your computer), superconductivity, superfluidity, nuclear magnetic resonance (medical MRI) and many other applications.
Clock difference on a satellite is predicted by the Theory of relativity, and has to be taken into account to make your GPS reciever work.
So tell me Alex - why can't I know when and where precisely a tornado is going to occur? If our climate models were so accurate, why can't I have a 100% accurate forecast a week out, or a year out for that matter? I can turn my LED TV on every night and see the luminescence. Again, you are not comparing the same science. And in the case of AGW, I use the word "science" very loosely.
Right on Alex , not a fukin clue what you wrote but it sounded good at least !
Sounds like devil talk Alex. I PRAY that the invisible pink UNICORN will EXPOSE himself to you.
BERNITCH: Never heard a liberal say s/he was all-knowing, all-seeing or they s/he created everything.
10tacle: It's in your words and your attitude towards those that don't believe like you.. or in this case, disbelieve like you. You say it without even saying it.
Bernitch: Wow. It's just no wonder people like you are so dishonest, and so f'd up. Someone simply makes a FACTUAL statement [you've never proven that your cult god exists, so I can find no logical reason to believe in it] -- that translates, in your head, that they are claiming to know everything and that they are claiming they've created everything.
It's really no wonder that any critical thinker that encounters someone like you realizes you live smack in the middle of WHACK-JOB CITY.
10tacle:
A tornado is very transient phenomen. Local weather dynamics are so chaotic, that a small change in local conditions amplifies with time; this is what makes impossible to even predict whether rain will happen at a given place after a few days. You can see that a cloud system is moving, but when it will rain depends on very ephemeral factors, which is not possible to measure cost-effectively.
A tornado is a self-amplifying weather feature. For it to form, local wind shear needs to happen, and if at some point the conditions are right, it begins to grow and develop. Finding where these conditions will occur in the storm requires measurements of wind speed and temperature distribution, which can't be made precisely enough by ground instruments.
Weather is a product of "butterfly effect" - small local changes with time produce large unpredictable bigger area changes. This is why it's not possible to exactly predict a tornado, even for a day in advance. It's only possible to tell probability.
Adding to that:
You can somehow predict average conditions, but unable to predict local feature. This is like gas temperature: you can tell average speed/energy of molecules, based on temperature, but it's impossible to predict path of any given molecule.
My retired minister father is very proud of me. He always taught me to think for myself, and that I do.
Jesus never condemned anyone- except the religious hypocrites of his day. Christ taught about loving your neighbor as yourself and doing good to those who hate you and forgiving. He taught parables such as the Good Samaritan.
Christians, if you want to convince people of your views, be kind. When you spew hate on blogs like this, I do not hear the words of Christ, all I hear is vile.
LOL. Thanks john, but i don't mock things that have never been shown to exist. For the record, I don't mock leprechauns or Harry Potter, either. They are fables. Myths. Like your cult god. Never been proven or shown to exist. So, there's nothing there to mock. Still, if you feel like mumbling into your hands on my behalf, pretending that some creature somewhere is listening and taking notes, go right ahead. I have no problem with you sitting in the corner at home, and hand-mumbling.
Now ... when it comes to all the Religious Nutters in the world. Different story. I'm happy to mock them. Their hatred toward others and their painfully obvious and blatant hypocrisy -- they make it easy for the rest of us to mock them.
Cheers!
Thank God, Nobody was killed. Our prayers are out for the ones that got hurt.
that's nice that you attribute the lack of death to your cult god, virginia.
maybe someday you'll ask him why he was such a sadistic, hateful, mass-murdering POS that he didn't come in and prevent death on 9/11.
cheers!
Technically, 9/11 perpetrators were praying the same God of all Abrahamic religions, so He decided not to take sides.
The BRAC - Base Realignment commission recommended moving the air station out of the populated area to an existing airfrield in Florida. It would have saved about $1.5 billion to move it, over a ten year period.
Lead by Ms. Mayor of Oceana the citizens of Oceana fought the move tooth and nail. Then, Senator George Allen, and many others, said there were no safety issues. HA.
The mayor's name was Ms. Oberndorf and she was the mayor of Virginia Beach. Oceana is within the city of Virginia Beach and citizens throughout Virginia Beach fought tooth and nail to keep the base and its airfield. George Allen was Virginia's governor and not a senator, although he is currently running for the Senate seat held by Jim Webb, who is retiring.
In 1999, Naval Air Station Cecil Field, located in the greater Jacksonville, Florida, area and home of the fighter jets, was closed at the recommendation of BRAC 1993 and BRAC 1995 and the fighter aircraft were moved to Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia Beach. Cecil Field was then converted to joint civilian and military use with an industrial park and operations by the Coast Guard and Florida's Army National Guard. BRAC 2005 recommended moving the fighter aircraft back to Cecil Field if certain conditions were not met by Virginia Beach. In 2006, the residents of Jacksonville voted to maintain the airfield's joint civilian and military status. Virginia Beach has not met the conditions laid out by the BRAC.
I can't help recalling the Robert Duval movie," The Great Santini" in which marine pilot Santini declines to eject over the town but rather determines to head for open water to ditch his aircraft and most assuredly suffer his own demise rather than those of the families below. Ordered to eject early over civilian housing and the town, "That's a negative." That courage and the belief in my pilots flying above me and watching the wall and my back (I live near a NAS and watch and hear them overhead daily with great pride!) has sustained me and my love for country and our military for many years. They were lucky, indeed, this time. But in preparation for the next time, I hope all our aviators watch the movie as part of their training.
We don't watch "The Great Santini" as a part of our training...nor do we watch Top Gun. We are trained to fly away from populated areas in the unlikely event of an imminent crash. However, in this case, it appears the pilots were unable to control the aircraft. We don't know the details yet, but it could be a compressor stall, a fire, hydraulic malfunction, one all of the above, etc.
The Great Santini is a movie. Robert Duval is an actor who did in fact live to tell the tale of his fake crash in a movie. Why would anyone think that actors in a movie should train the actual professionals? Do you think all firefighters should have to watch "Backdraft"? Should police officers be made to watch every episode of "Hill Street Blues"? I guess you also think NFL players just have to watch "Any Given Sunday".
Nissan. Above, where you said about yourself: What I think is of no relevance.
You should stick with that. Every other post you put here makes you look foolish.
I still believe in the heroes--whether they were generated by Hollywood or if Hollywood used the real heroes as the prototypes. I have to believe. I live in America and near a NAS. They give me such pride. They'd die for me. I have to believe. Just call me a widow of an ex miitary aviator. I have to believe or there was no reason.
Bernitech,
Does your comment have any relevance to this particular thread? Stalking another poster throughout a comments board and insulting them makes you look childish.
The greater power is the earth stabilizing an over populated planet.
If not so grim, that would be hilarious.
Whoa dude ,thats heavy !
Meanwhile over on ABC(American Broadcast Communist), GMA host, loser host name not important interviewed 2 gentleman witnesses. This was the disgusting question the GMA loser asked the second gentleman "Are you angry with the pilots who caused the crash or are you grateful nobody was injured?" YOU stupid POS-seriously? Your level of stupidity and gutless reporting as a so called media outlet and anchor is astounding! What were you hoping to achieve? Hate bating has become the norm for these news outlets, I suppose ABC, NBC, CBS are so desperate for ratings they feel it necessary to ask such degrading questions. I loved the look on the man's face-one of amazement and disgust, he responded " I am very proud of the piolts under the circumstance" SO -to ABC and the idiot who asked the question and continue to expose the real face and political intent behind ABC-SCREW YOU!
"Are you angry with the pilots who caused the crash or are you grateful nobody was injured?"
That really is pretty breath-taking, isn't it?! The logical fallacy involved is called a "false dichotomy," and reporters are very fond of tossing out stuff like that.
False dichotomy to you-Stupid A-holes to me. breath taking at how many stupid, ill informed Americans will swoon over a low class interview such as that.
new senior apartments in Christainburg and a few in Bedford for anyone displaced by the fire in Virginia Beach
Good job fellas! I'm sure you tried to get plane pointed towards the water but when your jet is on fire there is only so much a pilot can do. Sounds like if you would have stayed with it for even a second longer there would have been casualties - the two of you. Hopefully you'll be back in the saddle soon.
Fire insurance check, Flood insurance check, F18s flying into your house, well that is a pre-existing condition.
@BLHTAZ..I totally agree with you, GOD is in control of life!!!
Someone must have been watching out for these people.
@commonman Yeah, it was Michael Jackson. He intervened from heaven. I know this to be a fact. Sha-mon!
can't be. Michael actually lives in South Park, CO. I saw it on TV.
early... there is no problem. The only problem is idiots like you trying to explain something you haven't any knowledge about. I don't need to hear your misinterpretation of Bible verses to know that God is a loving God. I do not question God's will as there are reasons behind it. By the way, God is capitalized. Have respect for your creator.
You're a sheep.
Yes and God is my shepard. God Bless!
Sure beats the heck out of all that exhausting "thinking for yourself" stuff, doesn't it?
EarlyOut didn't sneeze.
Must be nice to shuffle into a building each sunday and simply have someone tell you how to think. Saves you from having to do any thinking yourself!
John, there is no god. If there is, he's a lazy bitch. How's that for respecting my creator?
Call it like you see it. I couldn't agree more, best.
Sure sounds good not to have morals, honesty, integrity and any other good attitribute. Just do what you want no matter the consequence..no one cares....liberals way of thinking. It's just too bad their are laws...damn conservatives making laws. If they would leave well enough alone liberals could do anything unfettered..maybe rule the world...oh your prez is already trying that.
Call it like you see it...good motto...mine exactly
justredd64, Your an idiot to think someone of another belief could not possibly hold the same morals, honesty, integrity and any other good attribute of those that believe in a god. You should take a look at the morals, honesty, integrity and any other good attribute of those who hold the same beliefs as you. Its just disgusting!
Everyone go back to sleep. No one cares about your opinions (or mine). Slow news day. Enough with this non-story.
If this is a "non-story," what would you call a "story?"
Fortunate is that what you call it, I call it a Good Friday Miracle! It was because of the grace of God and his infinate mercy that no one was killed. Fortunate is just the word you used to be politically correct!!!
Correct
And miracle is the word which Religious Nutters use, because it's easier than critical thought and logic.
Just another one whom has not had the chance to know the Lord. I bet if you ask either one of those pilots they would be more than happy to discuss the Lord with you. I am sure they are thankful that no one was hurt and I am sure they Love the Lord. I shall pray for you that one day he shall reveal himself to you. You need him it is obvious you know nothing about the good book. But that is ok many dont and many should. God Bless the pilots we are all happy that lives were spared. God bless the 7 that were injured. God help those in need of shelter during this time when Easter is upon us. I would like to hear from the pilots soon. We are all waiting to see what they have to say about there miracle.
Plenty of us have had the chance to "know the Lord", Karen. We just don't believe in a higher being as represented by the Bible. And unless the pilots died, visited Heaven, and have some tangible proof of its and god's existence, they are no more qualified to speak on the subject than anyone else.
I have a feeling that if you talked to either one of the pilots, they'd probably be more likely to discuss their ejection seat.
Thank God No one was killed.
Yeah, but you'd thank your cult god anyway, even if someone was killed. If 5 died, you'd thank god it wasn't 10. If 10 died, you'd thank god it wasn't 50. And so on.
Keep moving the bar... That's the way it is with Religious Nutters.
Stop using the "God Excuse" for things that happen to man by man.
I am not religious but so what if someone uses God? It gives people comfort. Who are you going to be praying too, asking help from when you are an old man dying from some terminal terribly painful cancer or some other terrible condition? I don't know if there is a God but it sometimes helps people through the terrible times.
Instead of prayer, share and interact with thy fellow man. Unfortunately it is difficult to break away from ancient nonsense, it is as if we do it on instinct. Guess that shows how much we are like non-thinking animals.
Well said, Notfiveo.
Yeah...almost as bad as asking a sitting president like Bill Clinton if he ever had "sex with that woman".
Some FACTS to ponder.....Yes BRAC wanted to close the base because the VB CITY COUNCIL ALLLOWED houses and businesses to be built in the crash zones around the base. The Navy saw this coming for a long time and wanted to close the base due to safety concerns brought on by Virginia Beach and not the Navy.
Virginia Beach started worrying about the loss of tax income from the closure of the base and was given an ultimatum by BRAC to buy up houses and prevent further encroachment. They came up with $55,000,000 (?) to buy up properties and close business in order to retain the tax base that the base brings in.
So in retrospect Virginia Beach bears the burden of responsibility for things like this. If they would not have let the areas to be built up in a KNOWN approach and crash zone. No buildings would have been destroyed and 63 people would \d not have been needing to look for a new home.
And Yes it is very lucky that no one was killed.
They bear the burden of responsibility? That is like saying the government who licenses people to drive is responsible for every car accident. An accident is an accident.
Yes they (VB) bear the responsibility because that base has been there for around 70 years. There were approach and crash corridors established to maintain safe zones around the base. Virginia beach ignored these safe zones and allowed houses and business to be built in these areas. The more houses and businesses the more tax money it brings in, greed on the part of VB is to blame. So..in doing so they allowed citizens to be placed in harms way. It wasn't the navy's fault it was VB's fault.
@Scott A. Bregi: Interesting bit of perspective on what led to this uncomfortable proximity of apartments and fighter jets! It does sound like Virginia Beach has some 'splainin' to do!
In property law, there's a notion referred to as "coming to the nuisance." Someone has a dog kennel business. You decide to build a house 15 feet from his property line, then you start filing complaints about the barking dogs. The kennel owner's responsibility is greatly diminished because you have "come to the nuisance." There are elements of that in this situation.
It is almost an axiom that development will eventually encroach upon airports because local governments love their tax bases.
Careful guys. Most of the Religious Nutters here are pointing out that this is all "gawd's doing" -- not anyone else's fault...
Scott you're just like everybody else and want to point fingers. It is still just an accident. It would have made no difference where the accident took place because it can happen anywhere, even miles from any base. Planes fly overhead all the time. Are we saying because a house was built below a well-travelled flight corridor and that plane crashes into the house, it is the homeowner's fault because it was built below that corridor? @!$%# happens.
It crashed 10 miles from the NAS , how far apart do you want to separate houses and airports .
It crashed 2 miles from the base. Inside the 4 square mile approach corridor and and crash zone
Actually it crashed 1.7 miles from the end of the runway. It flew over 264 and in almost straight line went down!
Scott is 100% accurate in all of his postings in this thread! I've lived around Oceana almost my entire life and was wondering when this would happen. I'm glad the pilots both ejected and so far no deaths reported. I dreamed this would happen when I was a kid only in my dream it happened over Landstown Lakes when the F14's flew everyday.
We are only experiencing the laws of physics. A string of circumstances and coincidence and happenstance. So that is how it happens.
Hail science!
Marine, that was the most intelligent response I think I have ever read on retard forum.
Your faith is what is inside you, whatever you choose to believe in! A fighter plane went down for whatever reason into peoples homes, destroying what they have! Thankfully...no one was killed! But come on people, is this the place to debate your personal beliefs, or to judge or condone others beliefs? Theses things happen from time to time, car accidents happen everyday, people are injured and killed everyday from various situations...we just don't know when it will be our time or by what circumstances! Whether or not God had a hand in this at all, who are we to say? It happened and the very fact no one was killed...is something to be thankful for! USMC GARY
For God So Loved the world, that He Gave His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever Believes in Him, Will not Perish, But Have Everlasting Life. For God sent not His Son into the world to Condemn the world, but that the world through Him, might Be Saved. John 3:16 & 17
But it would appear that His Son is a completely incompetent airplane mechanic.
Quoting a mythical, unprovable cult book doesn't make it real, Gerda. It just reminds anyone who can THINK just how silly it all is.
Cheers!
You forgot, there are three gods? The father, sun, and the holy ghost.
It says in the BIBLE "The easter-bunny rolled back the stone and saw his own shadow" I didn't realize there were bunnies in the middle east. +god loves Americans better than anyone else it doesn't seem fair.
LMAO! thanks for that, CS!
:)
Explain the word BEGOTTEN in plain words.