Well, need to keep the guns off some streets, anyhow. Plenty of guns in my Texas neighborhood, but no shootings... Not the same on the other side of town.

I know dozens of people who own guns and none of them have ever shot anyone. It is already illegal to shoot someone who is sleeping in their bed. So making it illegal to own a gun is somehow going to make criminals start obeying the law? I don't thinks so. This is about cultural.

As long as the violence is excused as a gun control issue, or a "lack of opportuity" issue, or a racial issue, we will continue to have horrendous crimes that different groups will try to justify and or excuse. And to be clear, I am not reffering to any single ethnic or socioeconomic group. No race has a monopoly on prejudices or violent crime.

What we need to do is keep people out of beds...apparently those things will get you killed!

And here we go again. Get guns off the streets...and they will only find something else to use...and then we will have every little sharp thing or blunt instrument in sight banned. Just duct tape everyone's hands to protect everyone from everyone else. Better yet...everyone stay inside...life is dangerous!

William.... I fight them at every turn. My brother and son fight them at every turn. My wife fights them at every turn.

You see, we ALL have firearms and my brother, son and I all have carry permits. And we DO carry all the time. We carry to protect our families, friends, neighbors and ourselves from the slime dirt bags that have no respect for their own lives much less the rights and lives of others.

Why don't you join the NRA and other firearms organizations when they pressure politicians to ENFORCE the existing laws.

You continually lambaste and denigrate the actions of the law abiding citizen when they exercise THEIR 2nd amendment rights. Why don't you lambaste the politicians and law enforcement community to actually do what they are supposed to do?

The "ban all guns" people will never understand this. Time and time again it has been repeated that criminals do not care about LAWS. But some people just don't get it! Existing laws need to be enforced, Existing laws need to be enforced, EXISTING LAWS NEED TO BE ENFORCED. See, they can't hear us !

SweetAZ...

My condolences and sincere best wishes for your sister-in-law.

Unfortunately, you will suffer a double blow in this situation. Not only the injuries to your sister-in-law, but the knowledge that another family member is responsible for that horrible event.

My hope is for a full recovery of your sister-in-law and the harshest punishment possible by law for the perpetrator. That may sound cruel, and I'm sorry for that, but he perpetrated a heinous crime and he and all that do as he has must suffer the consequences of his actions.

To protect you from the ones who do shoot people.

SweetAZ... sorry for your sister-in-law, hope she recovers, and hope her husband serves real time in prison.

Law abiding citizens need the right to bear arms solely because the law breakers will always be armed as they've proven they don't care about law. Just like the smuggling of drugs and illegal aliens across the borders, someone will smuggle guns and the thugs will buy them and use them on an unarmed populace.

If they ever pass a law banning the private ownership of firearms, I'll then become one of the law breakers as I will not turn over my weapons. I never intend to shoot anyone but I have the capability and will defend myself and loved ones from harm if necessary.

"Leaders" like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson pretend to be community spokespersons, but any sane person knows what they represent. You words are sincere, but it draws to the way some "leadership" relinquishes activism to these two opportunists. I hope they catch the shooter, and justice is executed. The outrage @ gun violence seems very selective these days.

Since this child's death, MSNBC stories alone have commented on 11 children shot to death. Where's your compassion for them? Just because their own race did the deed doesn't make it right.

I wish those who are influential in these communities would speak out about this ridiculous and regular violence.

Unfortunately, the 'community' the perpetrators of crime comprise do not respect nor do they listen to the leaders of the towns and cities in which they commit crimes. Those who hold real influence over them are other criminals (often relatives) and those who glorify criminality in music and on screen.

No race has a monopoly on prejudices or violent crime.

No, but there is one that seems to hold a majority of the shares in it! It's a cultural thing. When all of your male relatives have either been killed in the streets or been incarcerated for at least one felony, that kind of life becomes what you know. If you're a young male in such a family, committing violent crime and serving a prison sentence can seem to be a right of passage, unless you have the courage to break the mold and rise above that. Unfortunately, that also means you'll effectively be leaving your family behind as your relatives won't be taking you seriously after you take a different path. This is not too much unlike a family where practically everyone is a career military servicemember and one son chose not to, or was unable to, enlist or receive a commission. He ultimately becomes anything from just an outsider at family reunions to a black sheep.

Some streets? Who would make the call of which? Under what selection criteria? why some and not others? unfortunately the SOME idea will lead to profiling. I would rather say

That's easy. All the streets in some cities or suburbs of cities that have high violent crime rates. This is exactly what happened with New York City and Chicago. Not that it has been particularly effective, but it has seen many thousands of people on the streets convicted of felonies for possessing illegal handguns. Naturally, all the people who can leave the blighted urban areas do and leave them to the poor and racial minorities, so this just becomes profiling on a larger scale, but that's where the chips fall. Each community should decide for itself what policies fit its needs. Most of the towns and smaller cities out there do not have the kind of crime you find in New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, and others do.

but if your assailant doesn't have a gun...you don't have a gun...how can someone innocently be shot?

If you are in what is known as a 'jeopardy situation' and there is what is called a 'disparity of force', you may rightfully resort to lethal force to even your odds. This would mean that if you are a 4'11', 98 pound woman who is being pursued by a 6'3' 250 pound male, you would be justified in drawing a gun, pointing it at him, and ordering him to stop or you'll shoot him. His size, gender, strength, and weight make him a serious threat to you if he is acting in such a way that you are convinced he is trying to hurt, rape, or kill you. Similarly, if you are an individual male who is slightly built, that same larger male can represent a serious threat to you if he's chasing you and you don't think you'll be able to outrun him. Or, if you are confronted by a gang of men. It is not reasonable to expect that a normal person can survive an attack by a mob, regardless of what they may be armed with. Superior numbers is the disparity of force. You would be justified in drawing a gun to preserve your own life and health if you were being pursued by a gang, even if no weapons are present. They could certainly beat you to death or leave you in a vegetative state if they catch up to you.

SweetAZ: My prayers go out to yoiu and your family. I can't even imagine the pain you're going through.

However:

Ok...I c an go for that...but if your assailant doesn't have a gun...you don't have a gun...how can someone innocently be shot?

The problem with this statement is in the assumption that your assailant doesn't have a gun...he/she probably does. Using the same logic as seat belts: you may only need them once, but WHICH once?

Unfortunately, this is what the world has become...

Disclaimer:

The following comments are not directed to or meant to blame any individual, entity or company.

How do parents compete against a culture? Have you seen some of the latest movies? What are the typical lead stories for most news shows? How often does a movie depict the consequences of ones actions? Look at some of the most popular video games. How often has a film been given an X rating for violence? Do you think that young kids who spend most of their time watching movies, TV shows and Ads that are saturated with scenes of intense violence will go up to be immune to violence? It is only business. When you spend, years demonizing a culture to prepare for war there will be collateral damage. In our culture, it is better to make WAR than LOVE! REMEMBER NICOTINE IS NON-ADDICTING!

guns are not the problem, people are..minds have lost respect, compassion & sensibilty..when people learn to treat one another as a respectable human being, then things may change..the American way of simpsons & violent video X games don't help..yup, Bugs Bunnies are really out there, BE CAREFUL.......

Grmasissa: The "ban all guns" people will never understand this. Time and time again it has been repeated that criminals do not care about LAWS. But some people just don't get it! Existing laws need to be enforced, Existing laws need to be enforced, EXISTING LAWS NEED TO BE ENFORCED. See, they can't hear us !

How right you are. People just don't get it. All this call for stricter gun laws does is to prevent upstanding citizens from being able to have/use firearms. The criminals DO NOT give one rats butt hair about whether there are gun laws. They will have their weapons, PERIOD.

If you don't like guns, then don't have one. However, do not try to take away MY RIGHT to have one.

It seems that young people don't know how to TALK to each other anymore. Think someone gave you a dirty look? Drive by their house and blast it! Did a guy talk to your girlfriend at a party? Shoot him when he's in his car heading home. Did you hear some gossip that someone else might have said something you don't agree with? Hide around a corner, ambush and blast away at him! Where these kids got the idea that guns were an acceptable response to everything in their lives is unknown. But at this point, it seems that in some areas its a generational genocide in progress.

@RamFla

Some streets? Who would make the call of which? Under what selection criteria? why some and not others?

How about streets where violence has occured and is likely to continue. Gee that was a tough one to figure out.

unfortunately the SOME idea will lead to profiling. I would rather say

Unfortunately we are one of the few countries in the world where it is illegal to pay extra attention to the people most likely to commit the crimes. Profiling doesn't have to be racial, in fact most of the cues have little to do with race.

Well, need to keep the guns off ALL streets, anyhow

There aren't any problems on the streets where I live and there are a whole lot of guns; clearly it's not the guns that are the problem. But you just keep on conning yourself so you don't have to deal with reality.

They do try, there is an organization of mayors, police chiefs, pastors, doctors all trying to get the guns off the streets.

Guess who fights them at every turn??

The Constitution?

By Clinton's own statistics, firearms are used in 440,000 crimes a year, as opposed to being used 1,500,000 times a year in defense. Bother numbers are miniscule in a country of 300,000,000. Those are from his own administration's study in the attempt to regulate firearms. Obviously, it didn't do much to bolster their case.

This is Florida. When they catch who shot her, he will claim self-defense, they will let him go without charges.

get over it! You think the @!$%# that goes on here in Florida doesn't go on in other states? Boy do you have a fckin rude awakening - hopefully not at your backdoor -

MJK1 - You obviously don’t understand much about the human mind and specifically what causes violent behavior. And while I don’t have time to go into detail here I can tell you that people don’t perpetrate violent acts because they just suddenly decided one day that it would be a cool thing to do. It has nothing to do with the media and it is not a problem that is specific to one generation or another. Therefore having communities "speak out" about it is not going to change anything. We already have our noses constantly rubbed in it by the media and that doesn’t do anything to stop crime at all, it just makes people feel less safe by giving them the impression that things are much worse than they actually are. Anyway nobody is born to be a violent offender or killer; they are slowly over the course of their lives driven down into a psychological stratum where criminality occurs. And many of the literally thousands of little things that happen during a child’s upbringing that bring about this process you would probably think were perfectly normal and harmless. The fact is a child does not have to be beaten or have drug addicted parents to become a criminal. Of course even if I were to lay it out for everyone here as to how to raise an honest ethical law abiding citizen without having to physically or psychologically beat him into submission like a dog, most would refuse to believe me and would continue on making the same mistakes. I guess its just easier to blame violent TV shows or a lack of education than to look at the real source of the problem. Anyway you can all now go back to arguing about whether or not we should have guns.

Outlaw all spoons NOW

They make people fat.

Okay--I'll bite. Where are these "ban all guns" people? Oh, a couple of people have popped off in this thread, and it means that there is a movement?

Find the movement.

There is not one. There is no organized movement to ban all guns. There are some movements to ban handguns in urban areas, but they have not been successful--virtually all bans on handguns are now overturned.

Yes, you can find the occasional joker who says "ban all guns"--but you will not find an informed movement of a significant number of people who say this. In fact, I would not be dreadfully surprised to find out that the people who say such things in threads like this are actually pro-NRA and are inventing a movement for the NRA to be against.

Let's remember that the NRA used to support gun control laws--well, prior to the Civil Rights movement, back when one could legally ban guns by racial group. When they say "criminals," you should read that term as referring to the same people they used to try banning guns for. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., for example, was banned from carrying a handgun--though he needed one.

Gun control is not gun banning--there is no movement to ban all guns. Personally, I'd like to see weapons handling taught in the high schools along with driver's ed--and I would particularly like the girls to be taught how to handle weapons and people taught how to react to someone with a gun (if it isn't pointed at you--it can't hurt you--so if you grab the shooter from behind, you really aren't in that much danger: sometimes running at the shooter is better than running away because it can make everyone harder to shoot). I really have no problem with people who want to own hand-held cannons (that is what a gun is) as long as they are responsible--it is the yahoos who start strutting around and compensating for their own inability to accomplish much who trouble me.

It would also be nice if people would cut it out with the silly analogies--you cannot kill large numbers of people with a knife or broken bottle unless you catch them all sleeping. You can, even if you are a toddler, kill someone else (or yourself) with a gun. Guns are a genuine danger--the more of them there are which are floating around in the hands of irresponsible people, the easier it is for criminals (who also do not bother to buy them legally, but just steal them) to get one. We control other "arms" for this reason--explosives, for example--and we should control guns and try our best to insure that they only go to responsible adults.

So--please--quit with the misreadings of the Second Amendment, please understand that your "right to self-protection" has been read into the Constitution by the Supreme Court, please understand that the NRA has not always been against gun banning and the reason they swapped isn't a pleasant one, and understand the difference between banning and control. Seriously--why don't we have weapons handling as a class in high schools? In a country that is in love with guns, this makes no sense to me.

"Need to get guns off the streets".... Yes, so only those who have no respect for or desire to obey the Law will ever be able to have a gun. Since the coward who pulled the trigger did so in an obvious attempt to commit murder, that coward equally obviously is not legally allowed to possess a gun.

The Citizens of England are not allowed to own or possess handguns without a special permit from Her Majesty's Government -- yet there are still far too many DOCUMENTED murders committed with ILLEGAL HANDGUNS in England.

Let's outlaw the private ownership/possession of knives, too -- and end the threat of the knife-wielding psychopath bent on stabbing people to death. After all, when knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have knives.

The are more guns in this country than people. We have the highest rate of gun violence in the Western world. We have the most lax gun laws in the Western world too.

Gee, I wonder if there's a connection to the daily gun violence we see in this country. Nah, couldn't be.

If we could shut up about the gun laws for a second, take a look at the hits and the general amount of comments and chatter between news articles. People are more interested and more ENRAGED over an (ex)-high school teacher boning his of age Student than a 15 year old girl getting slaughtered in her sleep. Maybe we should shut the hell up about trying to take everyone's guns away, and maybe get ourselves as a nation checked over on why it's more acceptable to be murdered than to be boned.

There are more laws that are designed to stop people from screwing (even CONSENTING ADULTS) than to keep guns out of a mentally deranged person's hands, violent offenders and even murderers get off lighter than someone who bones a teenager a few years before the legal age. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we've sent this broad message that violence and death are more acceptable than the antics that take place in the privacy of one's own home. Who knows! Maybe if people were, y'know, busy getting it on, THEY WOULDN'T BE BUSY GETTING DEAD!

Why was Rick's comment collapsed? It kinda makes sense. At the risk of being collapsed myself, I am reposting it....

Rick-3608408 Comment collapsed by the community

Why am I not surprised, that is where all the NUTS live ... When a Kid can be killed just come home from the store and blamed for his own death what does that say about the people in that state ....

Guns don't kill people, gun owners kill people. How many is enough, folks?

@ Marty-3578909

You make some very good points. Nobody wants to work out our differences - just go ahead and shoot. Apparently, we aren't teaching kids how to deal with disappointments, and we certainly aren't doing anything to stop bullying.

However, your comment about not knowing where these kids got the idea that guns were an acceptable response to everything is surprising. We do know. It's everywhere -- violence in tv, movies, games, music. It's our "leaders" fueling the hate. It's the gun nuts fighting to get guns allowed everywhere, EVEN IN SCHOOLS and insisting they need their guns to protect themselves from "them." It's parents not "parenting" their kids, not turning off the TV and the games, and schools not talking about what's right and how to handle anger.

beanathome; liberals are the smart sector - we know politicians are bought off by lobbyists - there is no point in fighting windmills. When gun laws do come up these days, they all call for less regulations, the politicians kill or don't propose any laws/bills that the voters get to rule on that would restrict gun rights.

Since gun owners are so thin skinned and collapse all anti gun arguments - there isn't much point in wasting time making a reply only to have it collapsed.

As long as I'm convinced in my own beliefs, that they are balanced and logical, then I don't need to try and convince others. Approval by the masses doesn't make it so - it just means you get comfort when part of a bigger crowd. Some of us like knowing there is more to enjoy than just what the masses like...if I listened to the music the masses like - I'd shoot myself (one way to convert me...lol).

Does packing a gun really bring peace to the person legally armed? I worked as a Laborer for 25 years - we knew that most of the employees had guns either in their locker or in their vehicle - to me this made the place more uptight, not calmer. We also had a No Guns policy at work - shows you how much gun owners respect rules.

Where did the shooter fire from, inside the house, through a wall, or through a window? Sounds like an anger shooting and not random...they usually get those guys/gals.

" Seriously--why don't we have weapons handling as a class in high schools? "

One reason is the liability the schools would be forced to address. Even driver's ed. doesn't have funding in my school district. The district could never pay the cost of insurance, if guns were involved in the curiculum.

My main objection, though, would be that guns are already too much in our culture, and I would never have allowed my son to participate in such a program. It would mean that I condoned the use of guns, which I do not.

We need to teach our kids how to resolve life issues without the use of weapons. That seems to be what is missing in schools.

I have never known anyone to need to use a gun for protection (other than police). Where do you all live where you feel it's a necessary item?

Unfortunatly the number of guns on the street can not be reduced by the police without road blocks and metal detectors on every street corner which in essence creates a military state.

If it were law that every adult must own a firearm the criminals would have no unarmed victim or neighborhood to target, thereby the criminals would think twice about their chances of getting away with their crime.

Having taken a survival course you learn that almost any everyday item can become a weapon, things you would not even think about. As an example a common cd disc when folded snaps into sharp pieces that can be used as a knife, a bic pen becomes a dagger, these two alone are allowed on commercial flights.

Everyone here wants to be a survivor, educate yourself take a self defense or survival class, arm yourself, don't be the next headline for bloggers.

Can anyone explain to me why any of the comments above were "collapsed by the community?" What is it about them that is so outrageous or offensive that they need to be hidden from view? Is it because they are speaking about taking guns off of the street? Are the folks who are pro-NRA, second amendment, etc. voting to remove them? Is the pro-gun segment of our country so threatened that even the most innocent of comments must be challenged? While you are so ardently protecting the second amendment, how about taking a look at the first one?

are you going to run some more stories from floriduh...hear they got them a backwoods floriduh bashing news director...msnbc...

@Cunical

This girl did not DIE. In fact, she is expected to fully recover. Click the first hyperlink in the article "according to an NBC Miami report."

Where do you people live? How do you get away with shooting guns in the street? In my community it's illegal to fire a gun within city limits. I have to shoot the pheasants in the vacant lot next to my apartment building with a slingshot to avoid getting arrested. My mom put a round from my .308 between some jerks feet a few years back for refusing to leave her property and the cops told her if she did that again she might have to pay a fine. I told her next time to use my brothers crossbow, because it's not a firearm. She said she likes the .308 better, so she would just pay the fine. You can't just get away with shooting at people in civilized communities, they have laws on the books already.

I think that we should ban all cars, because it isn't the driver that kills others, it is the car. Same thing with these dam guns. I wish someone would just make a gun that doesn't have that self thinking microchip in it that automatically fires a round when other people are near. In addition, all 2000+ people that were killed on 911 because of those planes. I think we should ban planes too.

kayner...your post reminds me of the old saying "My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car". ;)

It takes the police 30 min to get to my home during an emergency

Where is all the community outcry over this? Come on Jesse Jack-asson and Sharpton! You going to start parading around for this girl? Oh yeah, sorry! We have to make sure she's black first, right? Well, but then we have to make sure the shooter was NOT black! Too bad! You could've had another paycheck, but you still have George Zimmerman to lynch!

If the perpetrator was NOT arrested, even though he admitted to shooting her, THEN there would be a need for community outcry, regardless of the races involved.

if yee gon'a live in floriduh...ya suppose to wear bullet proof PJ's to bed...with a night cap...some body might think it's a hoodie and shoot ya'...in any other state...thank yee floriduh...for raise'n our standard of ignorance...

The " wrong " people are dying ????? Who are the " right " ones... you know....the people that SHOULD be getting whacked ???? it's an election year, I suggest you join the Nazi party ... vote early & often....you're a perfect fit !

@totallyfedup-2040136

The " wrong " people are dying ????? Who are the " right " ones...

Well just off the top of my head, how about the person that would shoot little girl as she slept in her bed.

He probably is in one of the Nazis parties. Nazis were national democratic socialists. Does that ring a bell? Republicans are Democrats are both the party of big-government socialism. He'd be right at home in either.

Totally & Twisted: I believe he meant the thugs killing people are the ones that need to be eliminated.

Ban handguns.

takenaka, how about "ban knives", or "ban baseball bats", or "ban cars", or "ban knitting needles" (yes, people have been killed with knitting needles!).

When you outlaw something, only outlaws will be able to have it -- because the outlaws DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW!

Ban handguns? Only bad people will have access to guns. Oh wait, all of a sudden bad people will see the light and they will quit trying to acquire guns because they will be banned? WTF kind of logic is that? Are drugs not illegal? How's that working out? That's right, we have no addicts or drug dealers, silly me.

Then where is Al, and Jesse, and Spike???? Oh, the shooter must have been black.

You're complaining because they make a big deal about the George Zimmerman case, but don't understand the issue: Zimmerman was originally let go almost immediately by police without an investigation. Different story... you know, if you care.

Then where is Al, and Jesse, and Spike???? Oh, the shooter must have been black

It wouldn't make a difference. You haters would still find something to complain about:

"Why didn't they protest sooner?"

"Why won't they protest when a white kid gets shot?"

"Why do they always have to find something to protest?"

Zimmerman was originally let go almost immediately by police without an investigation

He was not let go immediately, He was questioned and held for over 5 hours and there was an investigation, He was handcuffed at the scene, His weapon was taken and placed into evidence, The Major Crimes unit was contacted and they responded and investigated at the scene and Zimmerman was questioned at police hq, Prior to his release the police recommended charges be filed but the prosecutor decided that Zimmerman should be released pending further investigation.

Now about this story, This is a tragedy but it will not get significant attention because the media wh0res can not use it to further their agendas, This is a shame, I hope the responsible persons are caught and after a trial are found guilty and sentenced to an appropriate time in prison

It's so cute how some people have a problem with the Stand Your Ground laws. I guess you'd rather run like a little vagina from your attacker. I love how you toss in the white towel and crap your pants at the thought of actually confronting a criminal. Thank God, not everyone in this country is such a pathetic little coward.

you make too much sense brother. that would ruin the racket for sure. people just dont understand that portion of these debates.

http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/start good if more citizens took time in this free course to understand the principles of freedom that , well, set us free, not liberal agenda and its false religions and cults without any moral compass and self righteous bantering while being pluralistic and universalist compromise which in essence makes nothing true..

MO...wow. I would surely hate for any of your family to be going through this. Evil comes in all flavors...bullets know no color, gender, religion or age. To make such a statement is absolutely horrendous.

Moral compass as if that makes any sense, rehashed wordings of completely detached politicians hoping to stir the pot to get the idiot vote. Ban guns, ban freedom, ban religion, ban ethnicity? I am sorry that yet another incident arises where-in an innocent falls but you people with your seperatist attitudes make me laugh. Ban ignorance, ban weak kneed laws, ban seperatism, ban politicians who fight for their morsel off the backs of americans and most of all, ban americans who do nothing but rabble rouse in posts. YOU americans need to start being american. Change the laws or refrain from comment. America is a land led by it's people, as so the constitution states, so stop blaming and start changing things or accept the blame for yourselves. Start punnishing children when they do something wrong, stop acting like children post 16years of age and start acting like concerned members of a proper society. You are all equal to blame for allowing yourselves and those below you (children) to grow up weak and depraved and with loose mental awareness. You want to stop this cycle of putrid violence then get off the NRA and get onto a vote and change mode. American people (which I am one of) are the weak link in the american society feeding off the hope of richness by coins, cars in the lot, houses in the listings and all around want without paying an iota of time to satisfieng the social and community needs. To go slightly further, and my apologies to this family and all families who suffer such senseless acting outs of violence by cowardly spoiled little americans, but this thread is no place for your political outbursts and suppositions of blame. Put the responsibility where it lay, adult children raising child adults.

Ah, the "Stand Your Ground" law.......where you are allowed to shoot someone IN THE BACK just because you "feel threatened".

"Yes officer, I did shoot that no-good low-life, because he lunged at me with a knife. Oh, why did I shoot him in the back, more than 50 feet away? Because after he tried to kill me, he up and took off a-runnin'! Oh, where's the knife he used? It's over there, behind that dumpster where I tossed it after takin' it from him........"

Lore&Wisdom,

Sure, let's change our government, vote & change sounds terrific, when do we get a candidate that is worth a $hit to vote for, eh? It doesn't matter what party we are offered, each and every one of the candidates running for national office is a lying crook. How do you suggest we turn THAT around?

By Impeachment and solidarity. I also suggest reading the Constitution as a whole document and not just the parts that make doing less while demanding more entitlements for having done so little. Before you ponder if that was directed at you, it was not but rather to everyone who is american. Another good set of principles to add is changing the law that allows americans to not have to swear an oath and also to make not voting liable to fine or harsher conditions.

there is no bigger coward than a clown who thinks he needs a gun to protect himself. im over 40 and ive never felt the need to shoot someone. zimmerman is a gutless clown by definition, like all handgun owners. any gun is more likely to kill an innocent person than a criminal. i dont feel safe knowing you tards are walking around with guns. you open carry psychos are the worst- im supposed to walk around you as*holes with a gun in your holster? of course, i should get one too so were even, and take a chance on my kid killing himself or someone else by accident. so, do you spend all your time looking for people who might be getting ready to attack you? what good is your gun if someone sneaks up and shoots you with a sniper scope? keep your hunting rifles and your shotguns at home to protect your castle until the next revolution when you can join your militia. of course the criminals can get the guns if they are all over the place. you know darn well if we banned handguns except for police and armed guards the criminals would be much less likely to have them, just like in normal countries. sheesh, nutless gun nuts!

Gun Control, yes. Gun Bans no. My advice antireagan, reread your posts. Another minor pointer, snipers don't sneak up on you as that would void the neccesity of a scope. It is obvious you have never sat down with the Constitution, and all your comments are accusitorial and slander based. The second amendment which is what you question here comes after the first, read the first closely as you will see freedom of speech does not give right to slander or mass degrading of others. Americans need to embrace the whole Constitution, again as I said earlier, not the parts they 'think' owe them entitlements. As for cowardice being a gun totters issue, what say you to using a thread where no one can get to you as a means for calling everyone else by slanderous names? Guns don't make people cowards nor do all cowards revert to a gun to handle their buisness, generally they use these threads and the handful of friends who like them are willing to go off half cocked with amunition based on misinformation. And for the record to once again difuse your ill sensed remarks, I do not myself own fire-arms nor have I ever, however I will not directly disallow another American their constitutional rights.

twisted,

It is not standing your ground if you first chase after a person that was minding his own business walking home from the store. That caused the altercation in the first place, therefore, his self-defense does not justify self defense on your part when you started the altercation in the first place. In other words, there would not have been a need for self defense from either person if the following of the inncocent had not happened!!!!

Are you volunteering, Bruno?

Brunos heart revealed itself, see thats what people dont understand the hate is form the heart, we recognize that so decent people like "knights" perhaps can defend laws that protect citizens. This case is about a coward who is narcissist perhaps and hurt in someway that he could see no way out, again not trusting in Gods providence and not trusting a possible future hope that things may work out, instead believes in crime and destruction and so selfish he destroys life, not what gun advocates are about ultimately but see the reality of crime and are prepared for the selfish criminal who decides to abandon logic and the laws of nature and the self evident divinity of creation and the laws that protect peoples rights and the heavenly bodies that in fact govern our existence with truth and they reject the evident sovereignty of God in things and go away form the idea to put others ahead of themselves. Somehow the liberal agenda has convinced masses that the victim is the one shooting children and the child dead and harps on the right to bear arms when the many people who bear them are citizens who uphold the law and defend the rights and principles and safety of the innocent woman and children so they can go free with the security that people will not randomly attack them because they decided there is no law and they somehow have the right to take what they want and kill what they want because things did not work out for them or they were hurt somehow and frustrated at their failures and they wrongly believe they are exclusive. We all have hard times and life is unfair and we all have to face job loss and hard jobs and illness, broken relationships and the inevitable death. Yet these criminals think they can just take it out on others when it gets difficult, that is wrong and may the strong cowboy citizens of America uphold the law and defend the rights of all men and all races knowing who the Lord is and what grace is and what in fact justice and equality is and most especially what truth is and what deviant outlaws are. Recognize they are out there and do not accept that they can kill fellow citizens and country men in their sleep and do not allow lawyers and leftists to blame gun carriers when they often defend the liberties we so luxuriously mostly enjoy for now in this great nation.

forgive and love our enemies and know Christ the Lord may come any day but that truth is truth and good and evil co exist, so we need to defend the truth and the principle to protect the masses of citizens form anarchy that man can slip into so easily because of sin. People need the light of grace and salvation to have a transformed heart to be able to see and know what the Law truly is and what the benefit of loving others may stop much tragedy. When Gods mercy enters and you are forgiven for sin there is a chance you can walk in the light and see the Spirit not the flesh and then you will obey the law and liberty of God and not hurt others and defend others and sacrifice for others. Not what liberals truly defend. Sin forgiven is the only chance to stop some killings and much crime.

If your god is so great why did he allow the punk to shoot her?? No,, lets rethink that,, If your god is in control of all things as you say,, then it was god who wanted this girl to be hurt . Oops,, lets re-re think,, If your god is in control of every thing then it was god that did it.. Oh Sh.t I just gave the shooter his court defence .

Paul...how dare you. You obviously know nothing of my God and until you are in our shoes, your commentary against religion is not appreciated. We are concerned about a loved one DYING and whether we bow to Christ or Buddha...is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Im looking at someone with 8 damn bullets in them and if being on my knees praying to whatever entity helps, them I am going to damn well do it.

or maybe some one should shoot you.

This will fall on deaf ears, I'm sure. Common sense usually does, however, here goes... Bottom line, people... Guns don't pull triggers... People pull triggers. Banning guns will only limit the honest people from defending themselves.. Criminals ARE NOT going to voluntarily give up their guns.. Law or no Law... We live in a society and world that is becoming ever violent; and, you just may wish you had something to protect yourselves... Military and police can't be everywhere to protect and defend every citizen... Plus, with the changes happening in this country, it might be a "Dictatorship Presidency" and regime style military, you are defending yourself against in the near future.

Instead of jumping on the band wagon to "ban guns" over every shooting.. Tighten up the existing laws... stop allowing years of appeals for shooters; that are buying time in jail at the taxpayers expense... and like it or not, a few more executions in this country, might make a shooter think twice before pulling the trigger.. Remember the saying "Scared Straight"... put it to good use legally and the shooting will drop without banning guns.

One final food for thought, people... Most of you are too young to remember... However here is a quick lesson in World History, - These similar actions was how Hitler obtained control over the German People... He convinced the German Nation, when he became leader, to register their weapons for the "greater good". Hitler then sent the "SS" around to collect all registered weapons. Once Hitler controlled the people, he burned books, imprisoned educators and religious scholars. With that done, Hitler was free to begin his genocide (over six million jews, 100,000 varying religious leaders and thousands of scolars); and invasion of other nation's and people's.

Putting things in modern text, when you have leaders pushing for gun registration, gun banning, and attacking personal freedoms and religion.. history will repeat itself.

Those who do not remember the errors of the past.. are condemned to repeat them....

what a sad state of affairs we live in, Good thing Jesus Christ is coming again, "love thy neighbour as thyself." This will solve most problems.

Jerry your right on point!!

Domestic violence cannot be stopped if hubby wants to kill wifey. IF guns were not available, a knife will be. Remember O.J.? Or a baseball bat. Sorry for your loss, but it haas no relevance here. Damage was gonna be done regardless. That's what rage does.

Sweetaz: Then why are you typing on a vine instead of praying?

You know what...always somebody that is a jerk. First of all, it has PLENTY of relevance...bullets kill people and if you had bothered long enough to read the thread above...you would have understood that. And to this Jeanette chick...I can do both...like right now, Im trying to pray for the patience not to say to you what I would really like to.

And further more....I am trying to keep myself occupied ...must make you feel well being a smart tail to folks that are hurting. Your Momma must be proud.

wow....

You sound shocked Brandoj29? It is a proven point, that the leading cause of death of miniority males under the age of 30 is another miniority male under the age of 30. All sorts of laws are in place, but they don't obey them and they won't obey them. Until the justice system starts going after criminals, instead of making excuses for them, the violence will continue. AND it is up to the individual to defend themselves, their loved ones and property. The police are after the fact, informaton and evidence gathers. If they prevent something, it was by accident they happened to be there at that time; criminals do not commit offences if they see a police car or police near where they intend to break the law.

to good an idea to ever work

"Ban that race?"... Okay, since Brando's 'wow' comment didn't seem to make you understand, I will. You and the people who voted this up are racist.

So if black people are banned, it will then be a crime to own one? That seems contrary to the racist point of view. The racists think EVERYONE should own several blacks.*

*NOTICE: this was a joke. The comments previous to mine are indeed racist. It's so obvious, it hardly needed pointing out. May these people grow in wisdom. Amen.

@michael henderson

We should start to keep a record as to what race all these shooters are, then when the list is compiled we should take that and by its outcome ban that race and not the guns,for it takes someone behind the trigger to make a gun dangerous.Just a thought

Umm, we keep those records now. White people commit almost as many murders as black people do. So once we ban black people why wouldn't we logically move next to ban white people? That makes sense to you right? Why not stand behind your idea and self-impose a ban on yourself. You can get the ball rolling and we'll see where it goes from there.

@ michael henderson, that is really stupid. How about we have JUST WOMEN have guns, because 95% of killers are men.

Backcountry, I think you had better check those facts, it is not true. White people do not kill just as many people versus what black people do.

"..ban the race...." Oh, yes, because everybody knows that only someone of a "pure" racial background can be trusted to not commit any crimes...

The problem is that there is no such thing as a "pure" racial background anymore. If someone does manage to get that ban of certain "races" -- we can all proudly holler SEIG HEIL.

If there is a race or combination of races that is NOT racist, please tell me. All people are racist. Or liars.

However, intelligent persons do not act from racial motivations, in spite of their personal feelings. There are certain races that seem to lean toward behavior-in-common. Good and bad. If someone commits a crime, the crime, not their race is the issue. If there is one thing people are tired of hearing about, it is accusations of racism.

People of my racial and ethnic group have a tendency to travel to the former homeland, stay a week or two and get to know what their lives might have been like if their ancestors had not ended up in America. If people of your racial and ethnic group are unhappy with America, why not travel back to your former homeland? I'm not saying go back and stay, I'm just saying take a vacation there. It is cheaper than you think. If you believe your ancestors came from a certain area...check it out! If it is a paradise...you might consider a return. If it is a hell-hole, come back home and rethink some attitudes. That's called intellectual honesty. More powerful than a gun.

I would bet that Michael's post is sarcasm aimed at the ban guns crowd.

I think banning guns makes more sense than banning a race.

and equally likely to happen.

Great post. How much of an uproar would there be if gun owners tried to deny anyone of their rights? I'm not a big fan of abortion for birth control but I will not deny someones choice to get one. If you don't like the way our society is headed, vote for tougher sentencing for people who live outside our laws.

Gee, why talke my guns?

More time for school??

There's no proof that just because the law is enforced, every shooting of innocent people will end. Just because you can legally own a gun, doesn't make you sane and non-violent. Once the mistake, misunderstanding, or crazed rage is done, the innocent person can never be brought back. Guns the easiest way to take someone's existence and you know there wouldn't ever be as much crime if the cowards who murdered had to resort to knives or bats.

You say we don't listen, but I'm listening. And this argument about 'just needing to enforce the law' doesn't apply once the mistake is already done. The law isn't perfect enough to prevent every misunderstanding from such a volatile risk as a gun. Argue this: If atomic bombs were easy to obtain, and the same law applied to atomic bombs as they did to guns, and those laws were enforced in a world where anyone could have those weapons, would you feel safe...?

BENT0N:

The REASON your diatribe doesn't hold water is, as the saying goes: Take guns away from law abiding citizens then ONLY criminals will have guns!

How about we ONLY take guns away from CRIMINALS? OH! Law Enforcement TRIES to do this with little success! I'm sure we will find that the person who shot this girl had a license/concealed carry permit for his/her gun! RIGHT!!!

Criminals will ALWAYS have guns because they are CRIMINALS to start with! They either steal them or buy them from OTHER CRIMINALS!

We have probably heard the last of this incident because it wasn't near as horrific as the Zimmerman/Martin scuffle! Heck, she might even live after being SHOT SEVERAL TIMES!

Benton:

The law isn't perfect enough to prevent every misunderstanding from such a volatile risk as a gun.

Are you saying it'll work better for baseball bats and knives? Or are you saying only the biggest and strongest deserve to survive?

Nope bill, people are saying it is our constitutional right to carry guns, and that right carries the responsibility to use and keep guns safely and legally. There are millions of people in the US with legally owned and safely kept guns. The vast majority of gun crimes occurs with illegally owned or operated guns.

Guns are a "volatile risk", but not as much so as (for instance) a trip to the clinic or hospital. The #1 cause of death in America is medical incompetence or negligence. Auto accidents also kill substantially more people than guns. Do we ban Doctors or automobiles? Ridiculous. Also ridiculous to get your lingerie in a bunch about guns. Nobody "deserves to survive" or not survive. Crazy, homicidal people will always be with us. They will choose a variety of murder weapons, none of which will ever be banned.

In your "wild" mind if there was one death per year from firearms, it would be a volatile risk. Sounds more like scared bill to me. Calm down, wild one.

lol

You find the fact that a 15 yr old was shot a perfect time to joke? Shame on you and the chick that laughed. Trust me...bullets in a body are NOT funny.

sweetaz..as a christian you should know that some people deal with tragedy by using humor. Doesn't meant they don't feel the depth of that tragedy.

SweetAz... get off that high horse before you hurt yourself.

Well said, Teresa!

WOW Marc ! Sounds like someone needs to go on Suicide watch. poor apes.

I think Marc's head just exploded.

"Michael Henderson, your an idiot. "

Favorite first sentence ever! Dude, when you're calling someone else an idiot, you might want to learn about contractions. In that context, it should be 'you're an idiot'... It kinda takes away a bit of your steam when you're sitting up there on your high horse....just saying.

Evil, who appointed you and others of your kind grammar masters? Since when has grammar been a requisite to post? A voice is a voice much like a vote is a vote regardless. Get a life! Just saying.

Rev Al and Jessie only care when the victim is the same color they are and the perp is not.

It wouldn't matter to the haters. Jesse and Al could protest today and the haters would still find something to complain about, such as;

"Why won't they protest black-on-black crime?"

"Why won't they protest when a white kid gets shot?"

"Why are they always finding something to protest?"

"They're protesting a white kid getting shot, but I'll bet they wouldn't protest if the shooter was black."

"They're protesting white-on-white crime, but they're not sincere. They're just doing it for publicity."

"They're protesting black-on-white crime, but we all know they're still racist on the inside."

And on and on and on....

I'm not a fan of Al or Jesse myself but I do believe in being honest and fair.

Let's not forget that Al and Jesse have ARMED bodyguards!

what do you me IF ??????

How did that work for the people of Iraq under Saddam? Iraq was full of AK-47s during Saddam's rule.

If the military stays loyal to the government there is No Way a bunch of untrained citizens will stand a chance against a professional army, especially one like ours.

My next door neighbors son was shot a year ago by a punk who had been harassing the family by waking them up at 3:30am every night. The son a big kid at 6'-2" 220, went out and confronted the punks before they could run back to their car... they shot him and took off. The punks claimed self-defense and got off with misdemeanors.

Guns in the hands of cowards and weaklings are the problem.

"Right one," Ryan in Texas, right to the point!

You obviously have never taken the time to do any reading on the NRA. The NRA is a very vocal advocate of enforcing the existing laws, and putting criminals behind bars, unlike you and your kind who want to make every law abiding gun owner a criminal. You allow your prejudices to overcome any common sense you might have. They support our rights, yours and mine, whether you believe it or not. Open your eyes and your mind, you might be surprised.

"You obviously have never taken the time to do any reading on the NRA..."

Years ago, Cleveland Amory said of the NRA:" If we can't trust them with typewriters, how can we trust them with guns?"

Enough said.

And Cleveland Amory and the HSUS have been breaking the law ever since. Several HSUS "leaders" have been put in prison for their criminal behavior. But no NRA leaders have.

So...you go Cleveland. Lie for personal gain.

Hey Bugs: you sound ike you've a got a carrot stuck up your ass !

Lol... " What's up Koch"

I don't know where you live, but here, our law allows us to carry guns, without permits. Nowhere in our law does it say, except black persons.

I love Arizona, home of my people.

Although not impossible, it's unlikely she was randomly killed.

She was shot, No where does it say she was killed, In fact it states she was transported to a hospital for her injuries

Most likely not legally armed but the gun probably was stolen from someone that legally owned the gun

Then maybe the NRA should push for training and educating people who want to own a gun to keep bad people from getting them easily, and to know how to use them better.

About what? How ALEC, the NRA & the Koch Brothers has managed to protect every criminal with a gun by buying republican politicians & judges?

Maybe he should,, They've done the same thing & worse in many states ran by republican Tea Party governors.... Time will tell if they also managed to buy our US Supreme Court, it looks like they did already with Citizens United

Poor Jim, your liberal views are not receiving the attention they deserve, please rectifiy that issue and go away, then we'll all be happy.

So Darrell,, let me get this right... You think it's only Tea Baggers & Birthers who have a 1st Amendment right don't you?

Jim... while I appreciate your 1st amendment rights, especially since it is my 2nd amendmant rights that aide in you and me keeping those rights, please remember that the 1st amendment does NOT protect you from slander and defamation of character lawsuits by those you accuse so often.

And I quote:

How ALEC, the NRA & the Koch Brothers has managed to protect every criminal with a gun by buying republican politicians & judges?

If you have DEFINITIVE proof of this, please post it so others can make their judgement, otherwise I would suggest you cease and desist before someone or some group takes umberage and hauls you into court.

Just some friendly advice from one vinee to another.....

So, you want ALEC to sue me? That's rich dude, it's ALEC who is behind all the republican legislation that are attacking the rights of every American

Follow the money, It's well known that $25,000 will buy any republican elected official & it comes from ALEC & others---- ALEC is funded by the Koch Brothers

http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/koch-connection

Jim.... maybe you'll want to follow the other money... back to Soros... but I will surmise you are a contributor to anything Soros related.

But again, WHERE is your definitive proof? If there isn't any, other than YOUR "well known" it is just that much more rhetoric.

Jim if you're a good liberal as i assume you are..do you support gay marriage, homo's rights, etc?

WWRD... actually, I support the "civil union" of all people. Marriage is to me a religious institution and the Church can do as it wants to do. The "state" should only codify the union for legal purposes.

What would Reagan do? For one thing, Ronald Reagan would not vote for any republican candidate today nor would he tolerate what republicans today have done to the country.... I met Reagan

Reagan would have supported equal rights for All Americans & not just for the homophobes & bigots,,,,,, he would have kept up with the times & not let his religious convictions interfere, which was also very much a part of his record

ok, so if you support gay rights, why do you use hateful terms like teabagger? i've asked several liberals that and never got an answer. i doesent bother me but just seems hypocritcal. if tea party people are bad, why call them a term that is supposed to offend them when actually tea-bagging is fun and normal in your eyes? are you following me?

Jim.... is there a particular reason you're avoiding providing DEFINITIVE PROOF as I've asked for? Is it becasue maybe your "well known" concept is only the delusional permutations of your mind?

Jim, i never said i was against it...i live in Mass, i believe the first state to have gay marriage....it hasnt affected my life yet....i don't shove my sexuality down anyone's throat so don't need to know what anyone else does in the bedroom...i'm for a smaller gov't...

What,,, Then why do you support republican politicians & a corrupted political party that does strip people's liberties & rights to happiness & equality away?

Corrupt? lke the south side kid from chicago? the last speakers of our house in mass all have gone to jail...all dems...corrupt like the last illinois governor?....i could go on and on....like i said libertarian means smaller gov't.

Jim, I'll agree to leave your first amendment rights alone if you leave my second amendment rights alone. The second amendment is not about hunting, it is about having an armed society that can check and balance an oppressive government. It's not about the National Guard, the National Guard was formed 100 years after the second amendment was written. People have a right to be armed, to defend and protect themselves. The issues in regards to this, have changed over the years, as little as 60 years ago you could protect yourself and your property too, without fear of reprecussion. The more we restrict one's right to defend and protect themselves and their property, the more rampart crime becomes and the more criminals thrive. Start shooting them when they steal, rob and rape, it will stop soon. While violence occurs everywhere, the worst of it occurs in the localities that totally restrict a person's right to self defense and the right to be armed to defend one's self, like CA, IL, NY, MA, just to name a few.

Drugs are Illegal, but the people who use these drug's know how and where to get them at any time. Now why would making Gun's Illegal stop Criminal's from getting and useing them when ever they want?? Some people are so Naive.

Underground... Please allow me to correct you.

NO WHERE is it stated that you have a "right" to by a TV. You have the ABILITY to buy a TV. You have a "right" to Free Speech as guaranteed by the Constitution. You have a PRIVILEGE to drive a car. You have a RIGHT to bear arms as guaranteed by the Constitution.

Do you see the difference?

While I abhor the gun violence in this country, I DO carry, all the time. I have only used my firearm once in the defense of a stranger against a "group of youth", fortunately, without the need to fire or injure another.

However, because the lowlifes and dirt-bags of society don't necessarily care nor are they concerned with your or my well being, I will continue to carry to ensure you and I get home safely to our loved ones, and are NOT the subjects of the police art work when they outline your or my body with chalk. I would much prefer that the dirt-bag be the one who is the subject of the police street art.

Reagan would have supported equal rights for All Americans & not just for the homophobes & bigots,,,,,,

So Darrell,, let me get this right... You think it's only Tea Baggers & Birthers who have a 1st Amendment right don't

The two lines above are both quotes from jim the fine liberal in two different post a few minutes apart....typical liberal hypocrite.

where did you go jim?

First of all, if a gun is stolen, how is it that the owner allowed it to be stolen? The definition of steal is:

to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2.
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment. by this definition alone the gun owner cannot allow someone to take something without permission. that my friend is what is known as an oxymoron. It cannot happen. Therefore, how can you justify the death penalty for a crime that by its own definition cannot happen?
Get real already!!!!

Secondly,

I agree that there needs to be more strict consequences for letting a child have access to a loaded gun, but those consequences do not need to be equal or harsher than more heinous crimes like child sexual assault for example.