Just arrest this a**hole already, sheesh.

It means, Like the Sanford police had chosen to charge Zimmerman for negligent manslaughter, but were "corrected" by "higher ups, she has made a decision to go to the grand jury and has been "corrected" by her higher ups.

This isnt about race even if Zimmerman was racist ... this means the corruption in the judicial process of this case may be exposed if "they dont keep a lid" on it. There is MUCH more to this just than the murder of an innocent kid by someone 4 cases shy of a full deck. There is a stench of judicial corruption interfering in a murder case that goes way up the heirarchy of the Fl judical system to "help out" an old army buddy with his "troublesome" son.

The smoke and mirrors over racial issues is being used to mask the real issues here from the public: what to do with the elephant in the room - the judicial corruption involved (especially over the past 8 yrs) to keep the son of "one of their own" above the law.

Probably means that Mr. Zimmerman was within his rights for shooting Trayvon. I have always believed the Zimmerman explanation and have felt sorry that a young man was shot. But if a 6'3" man attacks me on a rainy night and starts beating my head into the ground he will probably be shot also.

It means she's not going to waste anyone else's time on an open and shut case that the police got right the first time.

It means the State and Feds have come to the same conclusion as the locals. The evidence backs up Zimmerman and the don't have squat to charge him with anything.

My understanding is the option of a grand jury is only one of several options. The prosecutor can instead go straight to a judge and pose a probable cause argument. If the judge agrees, he/she can order the arrest and subsequent trial. This is a normal procedure and is practiced in many states.

We shouldn't get all worked up over this aspect. The whole world is watching. The judicial system in Florida wouldn't dare do something that suggests wrongdoing at this point

Roscoe, you've clearly not been paying attention; "the locals" wanted to arrest and charge Zimmerman, but were over ruled by the DA.

must be nice to have a father that was a judge!

It means at this point in the investigation, there is not enough evidence to charge him with murder which means he will not be arrested or go to jail. BUT he can still be charged with a civil case of wrongful death, but like OJ not serve any jail time for the killing.

Rick-881466

Roscoe, you've clearly not been paying attention; "the locals" wanted to arrest and charge Zimmerman, but were over ruled by the DA.

My attention span is fine RICK. Bottom line is they're not gonna try a case they don't think they can win and get hammered by the media for losing............

@ Jeff The only verified witness who actually saw it says just the opposite, that Martin was on Zimmerman beating him so you need to check you info. As for Zimmerman's father, he was a judge in another state (Virginia I think) and would have no power in Florida at all.

It probably would have been better if Zimmerman had said, "I panicked, and I made a terrible mistake. Also, once I decided to go on Neighborhood Watch that night instead of continuing on to the Target store, I should have taken my gun out of the holster and put it in the glove compartment of my car. Also, I see now why Neighborhood Watch prohibits carrying a gun on watch. I realize that Trayvon might have considered me dangerous due to my following him since I was dressed in the clothes I was. I am very, very sorry.

Actually, the local police wanted to arrest Zimmerman and charge him the same night the shooting took place. They were overruled - most likely because Zimmerman's father used to be a judge and his mother still works in the judicial system. This only means the police will charge him if charges are to be filed - it will not go before the grand jury.

I think Zimmerman will ultimately be arrested and charged with manslaughter - less than he should be but at least it is something. This clown should not be walking the streets with a loaded gun. Who knows who he will kill next. He's a loose cannon.

It means that the special prosecutor had better have enough evidence to take this to trial, because if she doesn't, it's going to get OOC in Sanford.

What it means is,

that the irresponsible and intentionally dishonest reporting, coupled with activist glory hounds, who shall remain nameless (AS and JJ), agitating for camera time, has irrevocably polluted any potential jury pool, grand or other wise

The procecuter will determine, alone, if there is sufficient / credible evidence to bring charges and if it is possible to provide the defendant with a fair trial

edfromnebraska...(#1.13)..."BUT he can still be charged with a civil case of wrongful death"

Part of the Stand Your Ground statute prohibits civil cases to be brought on someone cleared of charges, that it was a justifiable self-defence homicide.....So, you're wrong.....And just for clarification...Homicide does not mean Murder or Manslaughter....all it means is that one person was the cause of anothers death....some are crimes, some are not.

@ BiG Dawg,there's also white on white murders everyday,but as in any crime there's also an arrest made.

...if a 6'3" man attacks me on a rainy night...

If anyone, regardless of race, follows me in a car, then gets out of his car to confront me, I'm turning and aiming center mass.

The town, meaning the entire town, wants things to go back to normal. We have been told that the officer investigating the case, did think Zimmerman should be arrested. However, we have never heard him say that nor seen any police reports of such.

What we do know is this. The racial slur that CNN head on the tape is now NOT a racial slur but Zimmerman commenting on the cold. The pics of both Zimmerman and Martin were meant to influence public reaction. Zimmerman had a mug shot, and Martin had a 12 yr old pic posted. We also know that Zimmerman never volunteered race, but was asked by authorities.

IMO, once again the media in this country is so out of control with the spin in an attempt to divide us all up. It is disgusting. When we see negative political events pertaining to republicans, the R is always inserted. IT NEVER IS WHEN IT IS A DEMOCRAT. The D is omitted from the news release. WHITE is always noted while BLACK isn't if it puts that race in a poor light. This is what causes racial hated. Both sides are being used by USERS and especially the media.

Just state the facts as presented and leave out all the political agenda. If news reporters can't do that they need to find another job.

The media grossly tainted this case. Now no matter what happens going forward, we will trust the media even less if that is possible.

JH, all the evidence, including the 911 tapes the fact that the murder scene is in a backyard not on the way to the murderer's car, and the video from the police station indicate that this murdering scum is LYING and will continue to do so so long as his parents' connections can allow him to do so..

However, the NRA and the GOP in FL are afraid that if he is tried and convicted, people with brains will call for the end of "Stand your Ground" laws. A Grand Jury would have seen and heard the evidence and he would be indicted, leading to a trial. Now the prosecutor can claim some false technical error prevents his being tried, thus preserving these gut-nut backed laws. Killing someone armed with only a bag of skittles and a can of lemon iced tea because he just happens to be a black in a hoodie is murder, no ifs, ands or buts. the 911 tapes alone show he disregarded the operator's instructions not to follow Trayvon. The police Video shows he suffered no injuries. Time for Justice to occur here and this murdering zealot be held accountable for what it did. No matter what the skin color of the victim and the murderer, cold-blooded killing is murder, and unless all the laws against such acts have been repealed, this scum needs to suffer the full weight of the legal system.

Simply listen to the 911 tapes, look at the police video, read the report about how the police wanted to arrest him that night. they knew/know it is a murderer. It violated the Social Contract between itself and the Government, and between itself and its fellow US Citizens that night. Time the murderer is arrested and tossed in jail for both that and for violating the most basic of Treyvon's Civil Rights - that of being allowed to not be killed. May this scum rot in jail till it dies, and may it serve as a lesson that guns are not the answer; all to often they are the problem.

CelticPagen -

Right, it's the GOP's and the NRA's fault. How could I be so closed minded about such a simple issue. Say hello to your uncle Al for me, he evidently has told you the true story.

No doubt there is conflicting evidence and witness testimony. There is also no doubt that all the prosecutors have a great deal more evidence then we do. The Martin family has been extremely vocal about their position and Zimmerman has been silent in his defense. It is very plausible that Zimmerman has irrefutable evidence on his side.

To the people that make ridiculous conspiracy claims. Stop it! There is no evidence of conspiracy. Why do you think that a magistrate judge (in another state) has so much power? I doubt the president could pull off a conspiracy of this size and magnitude in so short a time.

To those that say Martin was standing his ground. You all have a very poor understanding of the law. You can't initiate violence because someone is annoying you. We don't know that Zimmerman followed Travon after the 911 dispatcher told him he didn't have to. Even if he did. Trayvon would still be in the wrong attacking him. Using the word stalking to imply a sinister intention does not change this fact!

To those that think that Zimmerman has to prove his innocence. You are wrong. This is a particular tricky situation but we never have PROOVE innocence in this country. If the prosecution doesn't have enough evidence to convict then it would be a waste of taxpayer money to put him on trial.

Goto www.wagist.com for all the latest info, includes all the phone calls, videos, eyewitness info, overhead maps, and timestamping. See for yourself. The truth is Trayvon doubled back and initiated the confrontation. He was already at his house or next to it, and Zimm was already on his way back to his car. Trayvon started out trying to avoid the fight, but ended up looking for one after the situation had already defused. Anyone who doesn't think this was self defense, simply doesn't have the facts.

So NBC edits the 911 call, ABC distorts the video, the media keeps reporting that Zimmerman wasn't arrested, yet was in hand cuffs and taken to the police station (means he was arrested if he wasn't they wouldn't have cuffed him), and we are lead to believe for weeks that Travyon was a tiny little 9 year old kid 9 (by the photo), and the media neglects to inform people that Zimmerman was treated by the EMT's and nobody finds any of this at all suspicious?

I feel bad for Trayvon and his family but the media and so called black leaders aren't doing them any favors because I starting to believe he wasn't the victim anymore.

you all have thoughtful comments...(#1.17)...."I panicked, and I made a terrible mistake......"

That is the dumbest thing anyone involved in a self-defence shooting could say !!!....Here is the rule:

"Officer, I was in fear of my life."....Period.....you're gonna be cuffed and taken into Police custody and brought to the Police Station ( just as Zimmerman was)....The only other thing you tell the Police is that you will give a statement once your Lawyer arrives....And DON'T fall for some "good cop" making believe he's on your side...their job is to get a statement they can use against you.....

Tom - Plymouth...(#1.36).....You can be cuffed and detained without being arrested....It's common Police practice to secure their own safety at times....

The problem is that without a trial. No one will ever believe that Zimmerman was wholy innocent. The Black Panters have a bounty out on this man. It is no longer a case of whether or not he should be tried, its a case of proving to the masses that he is innocent.

I lost faith in the trayvon side of this case when mommy tried to copyright her son's name and the slogans. What is next a movie deal. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that Zimmerman has already lost his life. Who can hire him now? Even if he is aquited, do you realize how badly the media has smeared his name through the mud. How about how badly the people on these forums have done so. How many of you would be able to appologize to him when the court rules that he is innocent.

CelticPagan,

You have several things mixed up. 1. The 911 tapes don't prove anything. Two experts out of ? How many say it was probably not Zimmerman screaming using questionable methods and violating their own policies on what is acceptable. I'm pretty sure the prosecution has their own experts. Lets what to see what they have to say. 2. The shooting occurred in between houses in a yard. It's not like it was miles out in the woods. Walking back to your car does not EQUAL just outside the door of the car. It could be anywhere from variables point A to B. 3. The video from the police station is not good enough quality to make a decision on the extent of injury's. The prosecution has medical records and detailed police reports. Even the leaked police report state Zimmerman did in fact have injuries where he claimed. 4. There is no report released that the local police wanted to arrest Zimmerman. He was brought (handcuffed) to the station for questioning. They could have held him if they wanted to. Furthermore, only Martins attorney claims the lead investigator wanted to press charges and was over-ruled by the DA. The DA stated that never happened. The lead investigator has said nothing. 5. There is no evidence this was motivated by race. Civil rights have nothing to do with it.

The case was so tainted by all the publicity that it's impossible to convene an impartial jury in Florida or anywhere else where a TV transmitter or an internet connection is available. By law such things play into defendant's hands. It's the right thing to let Zimmerman go under the circumstances, even if it means to go away with a murder. But there's the higher court that needs no jurors, and no evidences, because the judge already knows the actions and even intents of all participants to the smallest detail. Too bad we'll never know the verdict.

When and If Zimmerman is not charged and convicted and/or summarily executed...AS and JJ and every reporter that has covered this case should be arrested, jailed and forced to serve time for every act of violence that will ensue

Not even the "News Media" is allowed to yell fire in a crowded theatre, especially when they set the fire

No Justice, No Peace...Race Riots for Ratings...a new low, even for them

Mike, ".It's common Police practice to secure their own safety at times...."

They can't take you away without being arrested, they can ask you come with them, but they won't cuff you.

At least in MN.

Rob:

Zimmerman tracked him down, followed him and confronted him.

There's no evidence he confronted him. He followed him from a distance to be able to identify him to the police. It is quite plausible that Martin, not wanting to be identified to the police, started the fight.

If I were Trayvon, I would have been concerned that this guy was up to something...gonna rob him or something.

And being so close to the place you were staying you would have run there to safety. Why didn't Martin do that? He would have been safe from Zimmerman trying to rob him, if that's what he thought. Of course, if Zimmerman was only going to point him out to the police, he would then have an address and they might ask to have a look around. Based on the suspensions, I can see why he wouldn't want that.

Zimmerman was the agressor and Zimmerman had control of the entire situation. And he chose to pursue and confront when he had no right to.

There is just no evidence of that. The evidence says that Zimmerman followed at a distance. But, hey, the people that want Zimmerman's head have to change the story.

AtomAnt:

The standard procedure for any "locals" is to arrest and charge. Whether or not the facts hold up the charge is determined afterwards.

Well, they arrest first. Once they charge someone, they need to be ready with the evidence. There's that whole "speedy trial" thing. We wouldn't want someone in jail 50 years awaiting trial because the authorities didn't have the evidence they wanted.

Jeff:

but the wintesses who have back up the account, that martin was crying for help and zimmerman was on top of him as he was shoot point blank in the chest.

The witnesses had Zimmerman on the bottom and Martin on top. Again, the people who want Zimmerman's head change the story. Now, the experts said that the screams weren't Zimmerman's despite what looks like a very good match for the quality of the recording. I'm not buying that "90%+ expectation." I think the experts were instructed to conclude that it was not Zimmerman screaming. But, that is admittedly speculation.

VirginiaDemocrat:

Wow, you idiots sure are quick to jump to conclusions. It certainly does not mean that Zimmerman is off the hook. All it means is the special prosecutor will decide whether or not to charge him.

Well, that's true enough. But it probably means that the special prosecutor couldn't put on enough of a show to indict this ham sandwich. They might still charge him without a grand jury. But then, after the acquittal, you can expect a lawsuit for malicious prosecution.

ThePeach,

I was going to refute all your facts but it's not worth the effort. Every single one of them is wrong, a lie, an exaggeration, or leaving out important details. Fact - You are not stating facts.

CelticPagan,

The police Video shows he suffered no injuries.

I hold in my hand the "Partial Report" from a couple responding police officers to the scene of the incident. I refer specifically to officer Timothy Smith's report where he states of Zimmerman:

"I observed that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

"...Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD."

Just try to keep an open mind about this. There are 2 sides to every story.

Did you hear how the 911 recordings released by NBC were "doctored" and the producer had been fired? The recordings had been tampered with - possibly to promote racial hatred and to inflame public opinion! I'm going to reserve judgement until all the facts are given.

This kind of lampooning a specific incident to cause civil unrest is just what the politicians want.

It's also exactly what the media want to sell air time, newspapers, magazines, and increase on-line viewing. On Sunday afternoon, there was a report on NPR that NBC had fired the producer responsible for editing the 911 call to make it appear that Zimmerman immediately reported the race of the individual about whom he was calling. The unedited tape shows that Zimmerman did not comment on Trayvon's race until he was asked by the 911 operator. NBC apologized for the actions of this producer. NBC also made a comment regarding the fact that Al Sharpton works for them yet was attempting to incite unrest and riots over the issue.

Note that although this was reported on NPR, NBC has not published the firing of this producer or its apology on these pages.

A man is never charged with a crime unless there is reasonable evidence that the charges are valid. In this case, we have had a litany of eyeballs examining evidence, and the evidence apparently suggests that there is reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. Every one of us is afforded the assumption of innocence. This is our legal system, and it's a good one.

While Recycled Hope charges 'judicial corruption', that is absurd. It's a fantasy of her own making, the result of trying and convicting a man in her own mind without benefit of evidence. Possibly the result of wanting to be good and do good, but in the process disregarding the very system that allows us to be good and do good.

This is the stuff that empowers lynch mobs. It is not the American ideal, and our American justice system should not so easily be discarded by lynch mob mentality.

I could wonder why Recycled Hope would withhold from this Latino man the justice system that whites and blacks are entitled to? But I will not.

JH you're wrong if Zimmerman had followed what he was told. He would have been in his house and let the police handle it. He was the stalker and played Judge, jury, and executioner. This guy is paranoid and thinks he's a cop and he's was looking for a fight and when he scared trayvon after stalking him with a gun, Trayvon did what anyone of us would do with a stalker try and protect ourselves. Zimmerman isn't remorseful for the death he's remorseful because he got caught.

Two weeks after the martin incident, two black teens attacked a white man with a hammer. A few days ago, 6 teens, 5 known to be black, attacked a 78 year old man. In the same time period, two black teens poured gasoline over a 13 year old white male, and set him on fire.

No media outrage. No calling for justice. No riots.

According to the FBI, Blacks kill, rape, and rob 18 white people, for every 1 Black that whites kill, rape , or rob.

Graham,

If Zimmerman wanted to be Judge, Jury, and executioner then why did he call the police? The police were there 5 minutes after the shooting.

Using the word stalker just shows that you either don't understand the word or are trying to spin your version of events.

Almost everything you said is pure conjecture.

Zimm says Trayvon was checking out other people's houses on the police call. Remember this is a gated community where most people do know most people, plus they had recent breakins.

He also said that he thought Trayvon was on drugs... he wasn't. So yeah, I take the "checking out other people's houses" line with a huge bucket of salt.

Trayvon has his own youtube channel with videos of his own fight club that he organizes.

Youtube channel name, please.

Plus his twitter account confirms he's the local pot/drug dealer.

Twitter name please. (Don't just make claims without offering any evidence to back it up.)

And he was suspended numerous times.

According to MSNBC.com, Trayvon was suspended three times:

1) A baggie was found on him that looked like it may have contained marijuana, but none was found in it. Nor was he arrested. (Marijuana is a controlled substance.) What does that mean? It means the school had nothing but an assumption and suspended him, which sounds like he was railroaded. It could also mean that he may have occasionally smoked pot... so what?

2) Being late for school

3) Writing "WTF" on a school locker.

Oh yeah... real problem child... *rolls eyes*

But if Trayvon was running away, how could Zimm catch him so easily?

Because he was bigger and faster. What kind of an obvious question is this? From the sounds of his 911 call, Zimmerman had been running too, giving chase.

Definitely wrong, if you see the maps, you'll see that it's less than 150 yards. The house Trayvon was going to isn't even 500 yards away.

According to the map on NYTimes.com, the location of his body is still too far away from the truck, given the fact that Trayvon supposedly followed Zimmerman all the way back to the truck, and that there is only ONE MINUTE between then and the time of the killing. nytimes[dot]com [sl] interactive [sl] 2012 [sl] 04 [sl] 02 [sl]us [sl] the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin [dot] html

Are you a medical professional or just spouting what you heard? There are degrees of injuries.

I am not a medical professional; never said I was. But I do know that if a person sustains multiple head slams to the ground, there would be massive head injuries. Either way, the paramedics would be required by law to take that person to the hospital, whether they want to go or not.

The analysts couldn't confirm that the one screaming was Zimmerman.

Actually, they did. They said, for certain, that it wasn't Zimmerman.

They also can't confirm it was Trayvon either.

This is true, as they do not have a voice sample from Trayvon. But let's do some simple math here. There are two people fighting. One screams for help. One of the two is ruled out as being the screamer. How many people are left?

There is only 1 eyewitness, who did see Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.

The placement of the comma is very misleading. It should be "There is only one eyewitness who did see Trayvon on top of Zimmerman." At least, that's what he said, which is contradicted by at least four other eyewitnesses. One of these eyewitnesses was a 13-year-old boy who had been walking his dog at the time, and he was quoted as having seen Trayvon walking over Zimmerman. His mother later stated that her son's statement was altered by the police.

Go read the transcript, it seems obvious to me that Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon after he ran away. Zimmerman was still talking to the operator as he walked back toward his vehicle. It was after the call ended that the confrontation happened.

JH....so you are saying, Zimmerman was following Martin, Martin saw him and then ran away, so Zimmerman gave up and was walking back to his truck and then Martin came up from behind and attacked him???

How on earth does that make ANY sense whatsoever.......If Martin ran away, then he was running away to get away from Zimmerman. So he accomplishes his goal of getting away and then decides he is going to go back and attack Zimmerman??? Why? If he is looking for a fight, why run away first? Why didn't he just confront him right then and there? Makes no sense.

Zimmerman was pissed off about supposed early crimes going on in the neighborhood by other black youths. He clearly says in the transcripts "they always get away". But, not this one....Zimmerman was not going to let this one get away. He followed him, Martin realized it, started to get concerned, and at some point Zimmerman confronted him. At this point is where it get's very murky.

But, I can imagine a young 17 year old kid getting mouthy in this situation and probably telling Zimmerman to, in effect, "f'off". That's when Zimmerman's proven temper flares up (see police report when he was arrested in bar) and he either attempts to grab and restrain Martin until the cops show up or he just out right attacked him...either way it leads to a physical fight and from there, Zimmerman makes the decision to use deadly force.

This is what most likely happened based on the evidence. Martin's girlfriends being on the phone with him right up until the final minute or two is the best indication of what actually happened, and I think confirms something very similar to what I descibed happened.

Zimmerman crossed the line. He was angry about the previous crimes by black youth, was angry that "they always get away", and he followed, confronted, and tried to restrain or attack Martin and that led to a fight, and Zimmerman pulled his gun and killed him.

And again...let's remember the most important part of this...MARTIN WAS DOING NOTHING WRONG. He had every right to be there, he had no responsibility to tell this guy ANYTHING. He was not any kind of authority. Martin was just a kid trying to get home and out of the rain.

ThePeach - Why did you leave out Trayvon being caught with women's rings, earrings, and what the security official described as a burglary tool in his possession?

Collapsing posts is as bad as anything that the da did or didn't do. Stinking book burners!

It's not too hard to survive an *ss kickin, and live to fight another day. Grown men(and kids) do it all the time.

Zimmerman didn't look too "beat up" to me. He could have easily slammed the back of his head into the ground himself, to make it look like Martin did it to him.

The 140-150 pound 17 year old must have been an UFC fighter to have been able to get Zimmerman(over 200lbs and solid looking) to the ground and "threaten his life".

To shoot someone to avoid an *ss kicking, especially when you were following them and probably instigated it, is what one would expect of a weakling(mental/physical).

I still want to know about the rings and earrings found on Martin

This is news to me. Where is your source for this information, or are you just spreading rumors?

Just because he came to visit, doesn't mean he wasn't casing the area.

This is called "reaching." In order to be taken seriously, it's important to follow the route that is most plausible. If you have to do a lot of maneuvering and make a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions in your hypothesis, then it's unlikely to be accurate. Trayvon was visiting his father's girlfriend. He had been watching a basketball game, and went to get a snack during halftime. He had never been in trouble with the law, nor had he had a history of violence. He was unarmed and not on drugs. In short, there is absolutely NO REASON to think he was doing anything wrong.

This is dead meat like the flake Fluke and her lying about $3000 birth control when planned parenthood offers it for three years at $96.00.

Stop listening to that lying blowhard Limbaugh. Fluke was arguing on the fact that her college refused to cover the oral contraceptives her classmate had been prescribed her doctor to treat her ovarian cysts. Her friend ended up losing her ovary over this, and went into early menopause.

Remember 75% of prison inmates are black. Black males are less than 9% of the population.

So you're just going to make stuff up now, huh? According to the 2012 US Census, black people make up 12% of the total population. According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics, 39% of all inmates are black.

You have just made yourself out to be an alarmist and a liar. You can remove yourself from the conversation now.

what this really means is this; the prosecutor believes the Grand Jury would not return a true bill (no indictment); so to calm down the situation, she will file a information bill against Zimmerman, and cause a years delay at least, hoping things will calm down; she believes based on the facts she has a jury will not convict, a political way out of a volatile situation.

So yeah, I take the "checking out other people's houses" line with a huge bucket of

Remember it was nearly dark, and raining- it's entirely possible Trayvon was trying to avoid the heaviest parts of the rain by walking near buildings to keep as dry as possible. Zimmerman could have construed that as casing places out- which either way, is suspicious in a neighborhood recently plagued by crime.

Because he was bigger and faster. What kind of an obvious question is this? From the sounds of his 911 call, Zimmerman had been running too, giving chase.

Zimmerman wasn't bigger and faster- he was quite a bit shorter, weighed a bit more (from fat), and nowhere near the physical shape of this 6'3 athlete (football player.) As a 6'4 person, I can assure you someone who is considerably shorter than me will have to be in EXTREMELY good physical shape to keep up with me- my stride is longer (as Trayvon's would have been) and muscles are developed for burst speed as well as longer performance (would be required in football.)

But I do know that if a person sustains multiple head slams to the ground, there would be massive head injuries. Either way, the paramedics would be required by law to take that person to the hospital, whether they want to go or not.

If Zimmerman wasn't fighting his head being slammed against the ground this is possible- but you're incorrect about the paramedics, no one (unless they are being interdicted for suicidal behavior) can be forced to go to the hospital. If that were the case, ambulances couldn't charge for their services.

At least, that's what he said, which is contradicted by at least four other eyewitnesses.

There was only one witness who gave a description of Trayvon on top of Zimmerman- the kid didn't see anything and nothing in the report states he did. All of the reports state he lost his dog and went to catch him before he saw anything. There was another person on the 911 call who gave a description of a white t-shirt on top- the woman who now is stating she believes Trayvon was on bottom (however didn't see anything BUT a 'white t-shirt', which a grey hoodie resembles much more closely than a red jacket... Remember, it was dark.)

His mother later stated that her son's statement was altered by the police.

Actually from what I've seen, she simply states she believes the police were trying to lead her son into saying Trayvon was on top- but the kid didn't see anything, and that was what the police put.

ThePeach - Why did you leave out Trayvon being caught with women's rings, earrings, and what the security official described as a burglary tool in his possession?

Because Trayvon wasn't suspended for it, and peach was only listing actual suspensions. Those who advocate for Zimmerman's head won't do much of anything to expose Trayvon in any bad light, because that adds doubt to the Trayvon supporter story.

@Big Dawg-3501358

Black on black murder happens everyday. Where's all the marches, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's of the world condemning that violence???

Black on white violence happens every day also. In fact a black person killing a white person happens nearly 4 times as often as it does the other way around. Where is all of the media attention in those cases? Even when a group of black guys rape and beat to death an old woman in her home it doesn't get national media attention but this case did? I think all of these outspoken black activists would be able to accomplish a hell of a lot more for their people if they paid more attention to the people they supposedly are trying to help.

The facts in this case are nowhere to be found anymore. You have opinions generated by biased reporting and that is all you have. No one in the entire country trusts anything they hear anymore.

I love that a true statement gets collapsed by the community.....All as i stated is it must be nice to have a father that is a judge, and his father has got him out of trouble before.

Why did you leave out Trayvon being caught with women's rings, earrings, and what the security official described as a burglary tool in his possession?

I didn't. I just now learned of this.

According to the reports that I just read, the jewelry was confiscated from Trayvon and was not linked to any reported missing jewelry or thefts. More importantly, this is irrelevant to the case at hand. Trayvon lived and went to school in Miami; the burglaries mentioned by Zimmerman occurred in Sanford.

I now have a theory about all of this; obviously, I can't prove it, since it's just a hunch. But seeing all of the far-reaching and struggling to blame the shooting victim, rather than the shooter, I'm left with one conclusion: I don't think anyone believes Zimmerman's story. Not his family, not his friends, not the police, nor anybody who has come to his defense. I think everyone knows that Zimmerman jumped the gun (no pun instead) and shot an innocent, unarmed kid.

All as i stated is it must be nice to have a father that is a judge, and his father has got him out of trouble before.

Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in a completely different state- and in that state, a magistrate isn't a judge.

I love that a true statement gets collapsed by the community

Your statement wasn't true.

Peach, did you even go to the link I gave you you? www.wagist.com All the information is there. Trayvon's youtube channel is: The fight club videoes have since been removed. His twitter account is @no_limit_nigga. His friends all ask him for drugs on both facebook and twitter.

You also forget that Trayvon was also busted for burglary tools and having a large amount of women's jewelry. As for size, cmon, Trayvon was 6 foot 3/170 pounds. Zimm was 5 foot 8/230 pounds. Zimm is somewhere between Seinfeld's Costanza and Newman. You are telling me that Trayvon can't outrun this pudgy guy with a 20 yard and 10 second headstart? In fact, you can hear on the call, Zimm is completely out of breath.

I've seen the overhead maps at the site. It's verified from google. As for any possible injuries, I don't have any closeup pictures or video. So I cannot say whether he was or wasn't injured. About the audio, please supply link. All the guy said was that he could only give 50/50 that it was/wasn't Zimmerman. They couldn't confirm that it wasn't him either. There is only one eyewitness. Everyone else got there after the fight had ended, including the 13 year old boy. It's all hearsay.

Like I said, goto www.wagist.com to see this. Considering MSNBC has already been caught doctoring the evidence for the story, why would you believe 100% of what they say here?

The youtube channel is:zxzxmi99. Filters took out my link.

Zimmerman's version of the incident is that he called 911 about a suspicious person, then per the dispatcher's instructions he stopped following and started to return to his vehicle, at which point he says he was jumped from behind by Martin, punched hard enough to break his nose, had his head slammed into the sidewalk multiple times, at which point he pulled a gun and shot the teen.

Here are my problems with that version of the altercation:

1) If his head had indeed been slammed into the sidewalk multiple times, and if, as Zimmerman's brother claims, Zimmerman himself was only minutes away from 'being in diapers' for the rest of his life, Sanford Fire Dept would have taken him to the hospital for possible concussion. They cleared him to go to the police station.

2) The timing on Officer Ayala's report: he states that Dispatch first alerted the patrolling officers of a suspicious person complaint at 1917 hours (7:17 civilian time.)--that corroborated Officer Smith's story above and could also be independently verified by the 911 call tapes. Paramedic Brady declared Trayvon Martin dead at 1930 hours (7:30) So only thirteen minutes went by from the time the officers were first dispatched to the scene and the time a paramedic declared Trayvon dead. Is that really enough time for everything Zimmerman's version states to have happened, for the police to search the subdivision to find them in a grassy area between two buildings, for the officers to secure the crime scene, three different officers start trying CPR on Martin until the paramedics get there, one paramedic try to revive him and then declare him dead?

3) If Zimmerman indeed shot the teen after being jumped while trying to reenter his vehicle, why is the crime scene in the middle of a grassy area between two residences identified in the report as 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Cir. and not by Zimmerman's vehicle? Did he shoot the boy, then drag the body to the grassy area? I think the cops would have noticed drag marks and blood, and I also think there wouldn't have been enough time for Zimmerman to have done so. The police report I quoted above says Trayvon is 6'00" and 160, and Zimmerman is listed as 5'09" and no weight is given, but I doubt Zimmerman would have been able to do this in the 13 minute window detailed in both officers reports since portions of that 13 minute time period are recorded by the 911 call.

1917 hours: Zimmerman first calls 911 about a suspicious person. At that time we know Martin is alive.

1921 hours: Zimmerman's call to 911 ends after approximately 4 minutes and some seconds. At that time Martin is still alive.

???? hours: a 911 dispatcher hears screams for help and then one shot. The caller who contacted dispatch reports seeing flashlights within the same call; this would have been the police since neither Martin nor Zimmerman reportedly had a flashlight. I can't find a timestamp for the moment the dispatcher heard that shot; if someone could direct me to a credible link at which I can find that piece of the puzzle we will know exactly how long the entire confrontation took place.

1930 hours: Paramedic Brady declares Martin dead after three officers attempt to revive him AND the paramedic himself. Given a window of (approximately) one minute for the officers to try to attempt resuscitation, that means police were were likely on the scene since about 1925 hours and paramedics on the scene by about 1928 hrs.

Not much to discuss. Just ask zanilth-he is a an x prosecutor and he was there.Oh wait. No he isn't and no he wasn't.

Bill In Delray...(#1.20)....Greetings from Delray--- Welcome to the neighborhood !!!

I now have a theory about all of this; obviously, I can't prove it, since it's just a hunch.

I've had my own theory for awhile, and since we're discussing them I'll list it.

I believe Zimmerman saw Trayvon, and did exactly as is known- called the cops and started to tail him.

I believe Trayvon noticed Zimmerman following him and ran off (as known) but it's possible he decided to NOT lead him to where he was staying (remember Trayvon didn't live there, his father and him were visiting his father's girlfriend... It isn't known, but entirely likely she lives alone, and he didn't want to lead this 'weirdo' to her house.)

I believe Trayvon decided it would be better to 'get the jump' on Zimmerman, likely thinking he was a weirdo or a stalker. Trayvon being a football player, a 17 y/o kid (what 17 y/olds don't have the 'billy badass' syndrome) he likely thought he could knock the fat guy following him around a bit then run off and problem solved.

Only problem is, the law was against him- you can't assault someone who is following you, because it's not illegal to follow someone when you believe they are acting suspiciously. Not too bright sure, but not illegal.

All in all, I believe this was a bad situation that both made bad decisions in, and it led to Zimmerman having the upper hand.

Sanford Fire Dept would have taken him to the hospital for possible concussion

They wouldn't if Zimmerman said he didn't want to go, or if the police considered him coherent and medically fit enough to take to the station for questioning BEFORE bringing him to the hospital. The fire department and paramedics don't have the right to FORCE someone to go to the hospital- especially since ambulance bills usually run 700+.

for the police to search the subdivision to find them in a grassy area between two buildings

The original responding officer was given an address to where they were located by dispatch, based on the other 911 calls coming in- he didn't have to search.

If Zimmerman indeed shot the teen after being jumped while trying to reenter his vehicle

Everything I've read shows he was returning to his vehicle. The only place I've seen him at the point of at and entering his vehicle are from those who want to shed doubt on Zimmerman's version of the story (that is corroborated by the police report.)

I neeeeed a little help...I've read many many posts claiming that NBC edited for effect the "Zimmerman 911 call"...I googled and binged the assertion I went through 18 pages of returns...could someone please post a link to a NBC,ABC,CNN,MSNBC,CBS story/article about this alleged editing????

(not doubting you, just trying to make a point)

recycled hope

What happened to waiting until a decision was made? All the evidence was in? Many on Martins side have commented from the moment the special prosecutor was placed on the case that she does not use the Grand Jury and they were happy she had the sand to make her own decisions based on the evidence. You would have been praising her up and down and offering to kiss her backside had she come out with charges today. Simply because she didn't make ANY decision on charges today you claim politics and cover up. I WOULD suggest you go read the FLORIDA laws AGAIN but you would just brush me off and say I am a racist George supporter.

Those with attitudes like your will be rioting in the streets whether George is executed or cleared. Either in celebration or defiance. IF you are a voter in Florida and you don't like this law.. let your lawmakers know in no uncertain terms. Screw change.org. Some foreign student in Asia has NO say in the laws in Florida. Take your anger and apply it constructively.

headhunter22

Not much to discuss. Just ask zanilth-he is a an x prosecutor and he was there.Oh wait. No he isn't and no he wasn't.

If you've got an issue with something I've stated, then mention it. Otherwise, you aren't contributing anything to the discussion, but are showing you true colors.

What exactly did I say that isn't included in the known case evidence, that would require a prosecutor (or attorney) to know?

Those with attitudes like your will be rioting in the streets whether George is executed or cleared.

The bad thing is, people need to not forget Casey Anthony- they can arrest Zimmerman all they want, try him, and if he gets acquitted- it won't matter. There will be a million excuses as to why that wasn't good enough (please, no one read any support of Casey Anthony into that, simply showing that no matter what the jury says, people will come to their own conclusions with less factual evidence than the jury had, no matter what.)

I sure wish that MSNBC, CNN, etc. would use current photo's of Trayvon and Martin. These cutesy photo's are only shown to provide sympathy.

I await with 'baited breath' for all evidence to be shown and a court date is set.

I find it rather interesting that Peach keeps calling for sources but never provides any. I remember reading about the jewelry found in Martin's locker being reported in one of these msnbc articles, relating to one of the suspensions.

Saxon:

Getting a grand jury to return no indictment is trivial for a prosecutor. He runs the show. If he doesn't bother to produce any evidence that looks incriminating, the grand jury will not indict. Calling off the grand jury can only mean that the prosecutor wanted an indictment but didn't think the grand jury would return one.

Amanda - I thought the timeline was odd as well.

19:17 - Officer Timothy Smith was dispatched, also shown as his "on scene" time. He must have literally been in the immediate area. He was the first on scene officer (on scene meaning in the vicinity of the complaint, not necessarily in the company of the participants - but perhaps a street or two away in the gated neighborhood). As he arrived at this point of being "on scene", dispatch advised of shots fired. This officer was in very close proximity of the altercation when the fatal shot rang out.

19:17 - Officer Ricardo Ayala was also dispatched. He also shows his "on scene" time as 19:17. He stated, "While en route dispatch stated they were receiving calls in reference to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to".

Officer Smith put Zimmerman in custody (in cuffs). As this was being completed, officer Ayala came upon the area.

All this took place in a very short time. In the written statements by both officers, they use the same wording, "approximately" in regards to the dispatch time. The actual timeline will be easy to obtain from the recorded data the SPD will have. As a former emergency services person, I know these times can be obtained as someone (in my day) was responsible to log transmissions and times of such. I'm sure this is all electronic now, and should be easy to get.

@leiya

I might be wrong, but I think Trayvon and Martin is just one person...but that does remind me of an old joke...A California Detective sent out mug shots of a wanted man, he was a young black man, the detective sent a front, left, and right side view shots from recent booking...about three hours later a Texas Sheriff called and said we got all three of them...

Superb posts, ThePeach.

Using logic and facts, substantially you refuted the justice deniers.

In desperation, these justice deniers use thinly veiled tricks of irrelevant information to prop up Zimmerman's lies and his false claim of self defense.

No one with a modicum of everyday common sense believes Zimmerman's lies.

But if Trayvon was running away, how could Zimm catch him so easily?

"Aggressors do not run away...they pursue their victim - like Zimmerman.

Trayvon has his own Youtube channel with videos of his own fight club that he organizes.

This is junk to "muddy the waters."

Where is the Youtube channel?

If there is a Youtube channel, this does not excuse or exonerate Zimmerman in this killing.

Are you a medical professional or just spouting what you heard? There are degrees of injuries.

A person does not have to be a medical professional to know that if Zimmerman's claims of his head being repeatedly slammed into the ground were true, Emergency Medical Services would have been summoned. This cowboy and son of the elite would, and those that are protecting him, for medical but more so for legal cover, would have insisted that he went to a local hospital for treatment to buttress his lie of "self-defense." The highly placed people who are defending Zimmerman are well versed in the system and they know exactly how to "misuse" the system to meet their goals.

The analysts couldn't confirm that the one screaming was Zimmerman

More garbage.

Two audio experts confirmed that the voice on the audio tape screaming for help is not Zimmerman's. There were only 2 people at this crime scene. The voice had to be Trayson's voice. Audibly, the voice on the audio tape calling for help is high pitched. Zimmerman is a 28 year old "man."

The voice of a 17 year old male is more high pitched than that of a 28 year old male.

There is only 1 eyewitness, who did see Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.

There were multiple eyewitnesses in this case. The credible eyewitnesses have squarely pointed the damning evidence at Zimmerman as being the aggressor in this crime. Some of the witnesses, who statements favored Trayvon as being a victim, were pressured by the Sandford police to change their accounts of what they heard and and what they saw.

This case reeks of a skewed judicial system that favors the elite.

No one with a modicum of morality and legal accountable would let this Zimmerman, dust this murder under his feet...so that he can continue to kill more "suspicious," but totally innocent people.

There needs to be an economic boycott of Sandford and possibly of Florida to get this case moving in the right direction of pursuing justice for Trayvon.

Yes, the world is watching this case.

Hopefully, we will not end up embarrassing ourselves as "chimers" of democracy.

Isn't it great how the msnbc authors (they certainly aren't journalists) are almost as race baiting as al and jesse. In this article the author again refers to the racial makeup of the accused. They refuse to let the accused determine his own ethnicity - Zimmerman's father is white and his mother is hispanic.

Why didn't msnbc always refer to the racial makeup of obama when he got involved in this issue? When he made the comment about trayvon he injected himself in the racial debate but the authors let him define his own ethnicity as black - rather than "his father is black and his mother is white."

Amanda, Phoniques www.wagist.com It has second by second timeline and overhead maps and the fired nbc person story. The so called missing minute is actually 2 1/2 minutes in between the time Zimm hangs up and when the eyewitness calls 911 during the fight. Zanilith, they also have a picture of the exact spot where Trayvon died. It's in the middle of open ground, Trayvon's destination is 30 seconds walking at the end of the picture, half that running. The website's theory is that Trayvon was actually back or near to his dad's gf's house while he was still on the phone with his own gf. Either she goaded him into doubling back to Zimm or that Trayvon wanted to act tough for his gf. Zimmerman had already given up the chase because he was too out of shape.

Zanilth said:

I believe Trayvon noticed Zimmerman following him and ran off (as known) but it's possible he decided to NOT lead him to where he was staying (remember Trayvon didn't live there, his father and him were visiting his father's girlfriend... It isn't known, but entirely likely she lives alone, and he didn't want to lead this 'weirdo' to her house.)

According to reports Martin and his father were visiting the father's girlfriend, and father's girlfriend has a son younger than Martin. Reportedly the iced tea Martin bought was for himself and the Skittles was for the younger child. Also reportedly he was shot not far from the back door of the father's girlfriend's residence.

They wouldn't if Zimmerman said he didn't want to go, or if the police considered him coherent and medically fit enough to take to the station for questioning BEFORE bringing him to the hospital.

And if Zimmerman was close to 'being in diapers for the rest of his life' as Zimmerman's brother told the press, the paramedics would most likely not have cleared him to go to the station. Even if the assault didn't result in significant bleeding, pupil dilation and other biological responses to head injuries would likely have been observed, necessitating further subject observation.

The original responding officer was given an address to where they were located by dispatch, based on the other 911 calls coming in- he didn't have to search.

I'm going to paste the portion of Ofc. Timothy Smith's police report here. The relevant part is boldfaced:

On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.

I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees Lane. I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821 Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.

The officer clearly means to use the word 'canvass' here, and 'canvas' as is written is clearly a typo. 'Canvas' is a type of rough cloth material; 'canvass' means to scrutinize or examine.

Everything I've read shows he was returning to his vehicle. The only place I've seen him at the point of at and entering his vehicle are from those who want to shed doubt on Zimmerman's version of the story (that is corroborated by the police report.)

The police report neither corroborates nor refutes Zimmerman's account of the incident. He is described as having injuries; however, no one considered them serious enough at the time to take him to the hospital an ambulance. His vehicle is not mentioned anywhere in the partial report we the public have access to thus far, neither does it mention blood being noted on the sidewalk between the addresses of 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Cir.

Mike:

I just saw this one.

You can be cuffed and detained without being arrested.

No, you can't. That is an arrest. That is called being arrested but not charged. There seems to be a lot of confusion on the part of a lot of people as to what constitutes an arrest. It does not require that you spend 50 years in Gitmo. If you are handcuffed and taken to the police station, you have been arrested. Now, if they arrest you and don't charge you, they can only hold you a couple days.

Probably means that they realize how polarizing this has become. That Zimmerman could not get a fair shake at a grand jury. Much the same problem if they try him on some charge.

Mr.PheaNiques-0000001

What a guffaw I made. Thanks for the correction and the humor:)

Zimmerman's whole purpose for being out there with a gun was to find trouble. When he didn't find it he CREATED IT!!!

No charges have been filed in the case.

A violation of Trayvon's rights as I see it... sigh

Walker, however, Peach doesn't have the correct facts, some of hers are distorted, like the audio analysts. They say that it is 50/50 that it is Zimm. They need 90% for confirmation. You're right that aggressors pursue, but tell me how is Zimm ever going to catch Trayvon in a race? His house is only 30 seconds away at running speed. I already posted Trayvon's youtube and twitter above.

I don't know what Zimm's injuries were, and neither does anyone else. All you have heard is hearsay from Zimm's brother who is clearly exaggerating. It cannot be taken as fact. There is only 1 eyewitness. All other witnesses got there after the fight ended. I will agree that the cops did the wrong thing when they may have tried to skew things.

concernedone said:

All this took place in a very short time. In the written statements by both officers, they use the same wording, "approximately" in regards to the dispatch time. The actual timeline will be easy to obtain from the recorded data the SPD will have. As a former emergency services person, I know these times can be obtained as someone (in my day) was responsible to log transmissions and times of such. I'm sure this is all electronic now, and should be easy to get.

In order to compete a timeline all we need is the exact time of the 911 call in which the shot was heard, and the exact length of time the call took place. The shot that took a human life took place during that call.

If we find, for example, that the call was placed to 911 at 1925 hours (this is theoretical, mind you) and the shot is heard 1 minute and 3 seconds into the call, then that would indicate that Martin was shot at exactly 19:26:03 and was declared dead by paramedics at 1930 hours. This would then indicate that the time window for Martin to have assaulted Zimmerman, punched him in the nose, bashed his head into the sidewalk, and get shot would have happened between (again, theoretically) between 1921 and 1926. A reenactment would then establish whether this is an adequate scenario to have played out within the timeline verified by dispatch and other electronic data.

There was one witness that said Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. However, people have ignored other reports (witnesses) that said the contrary. What kid would not be afraid of a stranger following them? If a kid can't get away from the stranger yes, then they will fight (defend) themselves. Also, many are discounting the girlfriends' statement. So far there have been no reports of the police even interviewing her. Yet another issue is that the police did sloppy work and did not collect the gun, or Zimmermans clothes neither did they test him for drugs and alcohol( as they did Trayvon).They also held his body and would not allow Trayvon's parents to see or take his body for THREE days. WhY? There is something suspicious about that. Since Zimmermanas father is well connected and he has gotten of 4 times before I do not believe that they (Sanford police) ever intened for there to be any evidence against Zimmerman.they both knoew what to do and what to say .If Zimmerman had left well enough alone and just called 911 this would not have happened and the child would be alive.Wheter Zimmerman goes to jail or is let go, he will never be free. He will have to carry this all of his life. He will always be looking over his shoulder wondering is somone is following him. He should have just said I made a dumb mistake and i am sorry.

Pvblivs....(#1.86)....The Video released by the Sanford Police Department showing Zimmerman being taken out of the Cruiser clearly shows him in Handcuffs....he is escorted in cuffs down the hallways into the Police Station.....If it's true that he was under arrest....Then why oh why is there such an outcry for him to be arrested. He was subsequently released...No charges , no bail hearing...he clearly was not under arrest.....In the minutes following a shooting police do not know what they are dealing with yet.

I was taught when I took my Florida CCW Class, that in the event of a shooting, I would be detained, my gun taken, I would be cuffed and transported....They are not going to let me go get in my car and go home....Detained for questioning is a far cry from being arrested.....Handcuffed makes it very difficult for someone to run away before they are formally arrested and charged...if that were the case.

Not claiming that I'm right, but pretty sure I am and I pray every morning I never have to defend myself like that and thank God every night that I didn't....but it is what I expect to happen in that event.

Publius said:

No, you can't. That is an arrest. That is called being arrested but not charged. There seems to be a lot of confusion on the part of a lot of people as to what constitutes an arrest. It does not require that you spend 50 years in Gitmo. If you are handcuffed and taken to the police station, you have been arrested. Now, if they arrest you and don't charge you, they can only hold you a couple days.

No. Placing you in cuffs does NOT mean you have been arrested. It can indicate a civil detainment, which will NOT show up on a RAP sheet. I spent three years in 'civil detainment' and have a 3 year prison record but there are no arrests or convictions on my background check.

According to reports Martin and his father were visiting the father's girlfriend, and father's girlfriend has a son younger than Martin. Reportedly the iced tea Martin bought was for himself and the Skittles was for the younger child. Also reportedly he was shot not far from the back door of the father's girlfriend's residence.

This doesn't change or alter the course of events as I listed earlier as a possibility- if anything, it supports my statement of possible actions.

And if Zimmerman was close to 'being in diapers for the rest of his life' as Zimmerman's brother told the press, the paramedics would most likely not have cleared him to go to the station.

What do you not understand about they cannot REQUIRE Zimmerman to go to the hospital? He has the right to refuse treatment- of which he did NOT do. SFD treated him on scene. Obviously the injuries he DID sustain weren't regarding the possible injuries he could have sustained had the altercation continued- hence his view of the necessity of use of lethal force.

I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821 Retreat View Cir.

FYI- the officer wasn't receiving the 911 calls, dispatch was. They advised him that numerous persons had called in and told him where the location was. Once again, that doesn't alter anything I said.

The police report neither corroborates nor refutes Zimmerman's account of the incident.

Detailing the injuries, wet grass stains on his back- those two corroborate Zimmerman's account of the incident. They do not verify his account- only lead weight to his statement being the truth.

His vehicle is not mentioned anywhere in the partial report we the public have access to thus far,

I never said they were close to his vehicle. Zimmerman returning to his vehicle doesn't mean he was there yet.

neither does it mention blood being noted on the sidewalk between the addresses of 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Cir.

It was raining. It is entirely possible that IF blood was present, it wasn't any longer due to being washed away. It is also possible that while Trayvon was 'slamming' his head on the ground, Zimmerman wasn't casually letting him do it- the impacts may have been there, but they would have been reduced as Zimmerman was fighting back.

As I said, I believe that is what happened, based on the information we have. No one can deny the plausibility any more than anything else concocted to suggest what happened.

That is an arrest.

Precisely. You can be detained on location for questioning, but to be cuffed, placed in a car, and brought 'downtown', you are being arrested.

All you have heard is hearsay from Zimm's brother who is clearly exaggerating.

The police report details the injuries, however obviously neither them nor Zimmerman thought they warranted immediate hospital treatment, especially after being cleaned up by SFD. The fact that he was injured (noted in the police report) and was treated on scene by SFD people seem to forget. I'd be willing to bet most people who insist on claiming he would have been rushed to the hospital, or like to pretend they know what kind of damage would have been caused, have never been in a fight or in a situation where an ambulance responded yet wasn't needed.

In order to compete a timeline all we need is the exact time of the 911 call in which the shot was heard, and the exact length of time the call took place.

While it may be out there, I haven't seen a released timeline of the calls- only the calls themselves without timestamps. I'm sure that is some of the things they are keeping for the investigation.

Most people would do good to remember that the police and FBI won't release EVERY piece of information regarding the case- yet if they had enough to arrest and KEEP Zimmerman in the first place, an arrest would have been made and Zimmerman would be behind bars.

Walker:

Peach sputed out some fiction and you say "great post." Well, I suppose the lynch mob has to stick together. However, I will try to counter you and the other "justice deniers" as you put it.

But if Trayvon was running away, how could Zimm catch him so easily?

Aggressors do not run away...they pursue their victim - like Zimmerman.

Zimmerman could not possibly have caught a running Martin. Zimmerman was short, fat, and out of shape. But the statement is correct. Aggressors (like Martin) do not run away. They pursue their victing (Zimmerman being an example of a victim.)

If there is a Youtube channel, this does not excuse or exonerate Zimmerman in this killing.

That's technically true. It is the fact that Martin was beating Zimmerman to death that exonerates Zimmerman. The YouTube channel (which I haven't seen) would only be being used to demonstrate that Martin was the sort of person that would attack Zimmerman in the manner described.

Two audio experts confirmed that the voice on the audio tape screaming for help is not Zimmerman's. There were only 2 people at this crime scene. The voice had to be Trayson's voice. Audibly, the voice on the audio tape calling for help is high pitched. Zimmerman is a 28 year old "man."

Yes, two audio experts said just what they were instructed to say. On a staticky call, the computer came up with a 45% match. A distress scream is usually at a higher pitch than a demo scream used to set a baseline. Incidentally, voice deepening occurs around 13 or 14 years of age. Using your logic, that high-pitched scream had to come from somebody you don't consider a real man. It couldn't be Martin. But I don't use your logic. I use the facts. The call was distorted enough that a true match would yield a match rate that low.

The voice of a 17 year old male is more high pitched than that of a 28 year old male.

That is just not true. After the initial deepening, a male's voice pitch goes up (slowly) as he gets older. But that would not be a noticeable discrepancy in this case. [www (dot) entnet (dot) org (slash) HealthInformation (slash) Voice-and-Aging (dot) cfm] Hey, I'm happy to help out with facts.

There were multiple eyewitnesses in this case. The credible eyewitnesses have squarely pointed the damning evidence at Zimmerman as being the aggressor in this crime. Some of the witnesses, who statements favored Trayvon as being a victim, were pressured by the Sandford police to change their accounts of what they heard and and what they saw.

Right, you wouldn't be biased in any way at all. Only one witness saw the struggle itself. That witness put Martin on top. At any rate, we know that the police wanted Zimmerman charged and convicted. If they were going to pressure witnesses it would be to get them to say Zimmerman was the aggressor. Seriously, in your version of events you've got the police "knowing" he's a dangerous killer and wanting to lock him away for life, but pressuring witnesses to lie to aid the defense.

There needs to be an economic boycott of Sandford and possibly of Florida to get this case moving in the right direction of pursuing justice for Trayvon.

Martin got justice. He was killed while he was trying to beat someone else to death.

However, people have ignored other reports (witnesses) that said the contrary

Media interviews a month after the fact do not count as witness statements, not to mention that they still didn't see anything, but were only saying what they believed happened without actually seeing anything. The 911 call AND the witness statement taken by police from the woman who went on to do the media interview contested her interview... Hmm, something seems fishy... That's why it's important to get the witness statements as soon as possible, because a month later details 'conveniently' change.

If a kid can't get away from the stranger yes, then they will fight (defend) themselves.

Zimmerman had lost Trayvon- didn't know where he was, and was supposedly on his way back to the vehicle. With Trayvon ahead of Zimmerman and then Zimmerman turning around, how do you think they managed to find each other again?

Yet another issue is that the police did sloppy work and did not collect the gun, or Zimmermans clothes neither did they test him for drugs and alcohol( as they did Trayvon).

Have you bothered to read the police report? The gun was confiscated and there was crime scene tape applied, etc. IF Zimmerman has the weapon now (which I haven't necessarily seen verified anywhere) it is because since they didn't charge him, they returned his property. Do you honestly think the cops would allow someone ARMED in the back of one of their vehicles while being escorted to the police station? Come on now...

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Twin-Lakes-Shooting-Initial-Report.pdf

Since Zimmermanas father is well connected

Really? How... By being a 'magistrate' in another state? Oh, and a magistrate in that state isn't a judge...

If Zimmerman had left well enough alone and just called 911 this would not have happened and the child would be alive.

Zimmerman was well within his legal rights to do precisely what he did in following a suspicious acting person to give a location and description to the police- no matter what anyone thinks, or whether it was an intelligent decision or not.

Then why oh why is there such an outcry for him to be arrested.

Originally the media reported that he wasn't even escorted to the station- basically, they let him walk home from where he was. That was erroneous, and caused people to get pissed that he was 'never arrested'.

Besides, people seem to think that an arrest means a conviction, when it doesn't.

He was subsequently released...No charges , no bail hearing...he clearly was not under arrest

You are under an erroneous assumption that charges must be placed and a bail hearing executed in order for an arrest to take place.

I was taught when I took my Florida CCW Class, that in the event of a shooting, I would be detained, my gun taken, I would be cuffed and transported....They are not going to let me go get in my car and go home.

That is exactly what happened with Zimmerman.

Placing you in cuffs does NOT mean you have been arrested.

Placing Zimmerman in cuffs and bringing him to the station = arrest. It isn't the cops job to press charges, that is the DA, and the DA is the one that said no charges would be pressed, to let him go. You are under the erroneous assumption that charges MUST be pressed for an arrest to be considered an arrest.

The term 'lawful arrest' refers to the legal custody of a person under warrant or under a probable cause. Probable cause includes the belief of commission of crime, or an arrest demanded under civil process.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/lawful-arrest/

I spent three years in 'civil detainment' and have a 3 year prison record but there are no arrests or convictions on my background check.

You didn't spend 3 years anywhere without charges being placed and you being convicted (or the charges being dropped after 3 year trial period in which you were found not guilty.) If you did- then you're very rich for suing the police department for violating your rights for detaining you for three years and never bringing charges- they can only hold you for 72 hours in MOST cases without bringing charges.

You having your arrest or conviction record expunged doesn't mean there wasn't any.

I love how all of you "lawyers" just KNOW all the facts and that Zimmerman should be convicted...I don't care either way, I prefer to let the facts lead the way. The only "facts" that any of you know are what has been presented in the media (many of which have proven to be false, BTW) and what Sharpton and Jackson have been spewing (which, IMHO, both lack credibility, especially Sharpton because of the Tawana Brawley situation). Bottomline is that none of you know the facts. Let the investigation continue...if Zimmerman is found to be at fault, OK. If not, stop calling for his head on a platter!!!!

Zanilth said:

You didn't spend 3 years anywhere without charges being placed and you being convicted (or the charges being dropped after 3 year trial period in which you were found not guilty.) If you did- then you're very rich for suing the police department for violating your rights for detaining you for three years and never bringing charges- they can only hold you for 72 hours in MOST cases without bringing charges.

You having your arrest or conviction record expunged doesn't mean there wasn't any.

Spent 2 years in Ritmo. No charges were placed because I was never arrested and have never done anything wrong. Never had anything expunged because there was nothing to expunge.

I was a legally internationally adopted stateless person (baby abandoned with no birth certificate or documentation saying who I was, where I was born, who my parents were or when I was born--I don't have a birthday.) I was never told I was adopted before my parents passed away in a car accident, then when USCIS found they'd lost my adoption paper 18 years later they came asking me for it. I had no idea what they were talking about.

I spent 1 year in prison waiting for space to open up in a deportation camp, then was transferred to Ritmo for another 2 before I finally located the courthouse my adoption paper was in and gave ICE a copy. They couldn't arrest me for USCIS losing my adoption paper; they couldn't arrest me for never knowing I was adopted; they couldn't arrest me for being 'illegal' because I was brought here legally, was legally adopted, had a legal BC, DL, and SS card.

And I can't sue Homeland Security--not for the physical and sexual abuse, the food and sleep deprivation, the death threats--the Patriot Act indemnifies them because they were acting in the interests of national security. A missing adoption paper is a threat to national security, you know.

zanilth

You didn't spend 3 years anywhere without charges being placed and you being convicted (or the charges being dropped after 3 year trial period in which you were found not guilty.) If you did- then you're very rich for suing the police department for violating your rights for detaining you for three years and never bringing charges- they can only hold you for 72 hours in MOST cases without bringing charges.

PLEASE do NOT get amanda started with her rhetorical story of how she was detained, deported?, for not having paperwork to prove she was a citizen.. Save that for a thread on that topic.

DAMN TOO Late.

Peach -

I am not a medical professional; never said I was. But I do know that if a person sustains multiple head slams to the ground, there would be massive head injuries. Either way, the paramedics would be required by law to take that person to the hospital, whether they want to go or not.

That's not exactly accurate... By your logic, I would be dead. Many years ago, I flipped my Bronco II three times, got thrown out of it and it landed on top of me, with the front-driver's side tire resting on the side of my head. I remained under the vehicle for over an hour, until help arrived. I was then life-flighted to the hospital where I underwent a CAT-Scan and various other exams.. The result? Aside from from some bruises, scrapes and being a bit stiff and sore, I was fine and was subsequently released the next morning.

My Point? A person getting his head smacked into the pavement, does NOT necessarily mean he will automatically have a concussion or major head trauma. Some people have the constitution or just sheer luck enough to not be seriously injured after such an assault, and it is NOT uncommon. What you are doing, whether by malicious intent or simple ignorance, is perpetuating misinformation.

For me, the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman or Martin in this matter is not for me to decide. I will leave that up to the experts.. of which you are not. Besides, to be honest, it's not any of my business anyway, and unless you are personally acquainted with any of the involved or live in that community, it's not really your business either. This is a local matter that has been blown up to epic national proportions by various agencies with agendas that are decidedly NOT truth and justice.

Zimmerman was never guilty except in the eyes of the race baiters like Jesse Jackson and Al (the felon) Sharpton. The prosecutors were looking at the facts and not the emotions and that's why there is no grand jury. This is a typical liberal media thing that got out of control that was never fact based until all the evidence was in. NBC Modifying the 911 tape only added fire to the case. Typical lies by the liberal media, but this time they got their hand caught in the cookie jar.

Amanda - no one knows if Zimmerman continued to follow, turned back afterall, or was confronted upon hanging up with 911.

Probably the biggest telling item right now is the "no grand jury required" What that means is either their is overwelming evidence of guilt, or a lack of evidence of guilt. Grand juries are usually employed when there is uncertainty.

Mike:

Then why oh why is there such an outcry for him to be arrested. He was subsequently released...No charges , no bail hearing...

Because people don't want to admit that he was under arrest. He just wasn't charged. If the police arrest someone and they can't get charges filed they have to release him within 2 days as I recall. This site [robocaster (dot) com (slash) sgvtribune (slash) podcast-episode-home (slash) crime-ci_18962299 (slash) s-office-files-murder-charges-against-two-suspects-in-pasadena-barbers-slaying (dot) aspx] lists 48 hours. I will recommend that you Google "'arrested but not charged'". The inner quotes are deliberate. They indicate that you need to Google the quoted phrase rather than the individual words.

Fortunately for all of us, the courts take a rather dim view of redefining an arrest to mean having been charged first. "Oh, no, your Honor, we didn't arrest him. We just threw him in a cell for 20 years with no access to council. But since we didn't charge him, we didn't arrest him."

Half of the comments on here are disgusting. The only way you will understand is when someone kills one of your family members and no one does a damn thing about it a whole damn MONTH after it's said and done. When that happens, I'll be sure to look the other way and put plugs in my ears. Pathetic.

Mosin,

In recent years, I have seen a rather constent pattern with both Jesse Jackson Sr and Al Sharpton. It works like this.

We had a single woman living in Akron, enroll her kids in an a public school system other than akron using her Father's address but never had the kids live there. The public school system in a routine check found over 40 other parents doing the same thing. Upon being caught all but her made restitution and ceased the illegal practice. She was taken to court and lost. When she lost, she apealed and called Jackson and Sharpton who came in a raised a ruckus, until they found out the truth. Once they knew the truth, they shut up and left town.

Notice how Jesse and Sharpton shut up over Treyvon? That's probably a good indication that things will not go their way when the dust clears.

trust_verify

I noticed... Had I known that would have happened, I would have left it out...

Amanda-2017567

Assuming your rant is correct, that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion- you weren't held under state or local laws, you were caught up in a cleft of numerous issues. Nothing even remotely close to anything having to do with this case.

The prosecutor does not have to go before a grand jury to press charges for crimes less than first degree murder. She can still come back with manslaughter, second or third degree murder or she may not press any charges. Only thing this means is that the prosecutor isn't going after a first-degree murder charge.

As usual, ignorance abounds. All you have to do is research use of grand jury under Florida law to get the facts. FACTS? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' FACTS.

News you might not hear here otherwise. The reason there will be no grand jury is that Zimmerman will be finally charged with some form of murder which does not require a grand jury to hear first.

The question will now become, is this a legitimate charge that will result in justice or is this being done to silence the matter. I'd bet we find out in 6 months to two years.

Pvblivs...(#1.106)....I don't know where you live but I was pretty certain about what I learned in Florida CCW Class:

"Just because the police handcuff you does not necessarily mean you're under arrest. That's what the Florida Supreme Court ruled in a case called Reynolds v. State of Florida.

In Reynolds, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that it is legal for a police officer to handcuff someone if the officer reasonably believes that it is necessary to do so in order to protect the officer's safety or to prevent that person from fleeing. However, handcuffing a person in this situation does not necessarily mean that the person is under arrest; it may simply mean that the person is being temporarily detained while the officer conducts his investigation.

The Reynolds Court cited to a case from Alaska called Howard v. State of Alaska which held that a person who had been handcuffed and had guns drawn on him by police officers was not under arrest but was simply being detained while the police conducted their investigation.

So the next time a police officer points a gun at you and puts handcuffs on your wrists, just remember--you may not be under arrest."

http://www.justiceflorida.com/2008/02/articles/florida-search-seizure-law/being-handcuffed-by-the-police-doesnt-necessarily-mean-youre-under-arrest/

Florida Statutes:

With a Warrant:

901.16 Method of arrest by officer by a warrant.—A peace officer making an arrest by a warrant shall inform the person to be arrested of the cause of arrest and that a warrant has been issued, except when the person flees or forcibly resists before the officer has an opportunity to inform the person, or when giving the information will imperil the arrest. The officer need not have the warrant in his or her possession at the time of arrest but on request of the person arrested shall show it to the person as soon as practicable.

Without a Warrant:

901.17 Method of arrest by officer without warrant.—A peace officer making an arrest without a warrant shall inform the person to be arrested of the officer’s authority and the cause of arrest except when the person flees or forcibly resists before the officer has an opportunity to inform the person or when giving the information will imperil the arrest.

I haven't yet read that Zimmerman was placed under arrest at the scene....from the Police Reports released so far.

From Recycled Hope:

It means, Like the Sanford police had chosen to charge Zimmerman for negligent manslaughter, but were "corrected" by "higher ups, she has made a decision to go to the grand jury and has been "corrected" by her higher ups.

from AC-1415998:

It means she's not going to waste anyone else's time on an open and shut case that the police got right the first time.

From the Article:

That means the decision whether to prosecute Zimmerman, 28, for Martin’s death now rests with Corey’s office. The case is also under investigation by the U.S. Justice Department and the FBI.

I guess it doesn't matter what the new article says, some people fill in everything below the headline with assumptions based upon their ideological bias.

One thing for certain, whatever the choice of the prosecutors office, a large number of people are going to be upset. Let's hope they get it right, and base their decision to prosecute or not to prosecute on the demonstrable facts, not on basis of which side yells the loudest.

Mike:

By your post, you would say that somebody who was thrown in a cell against his will for 20 years was not under arrest if the police never said the "magic words." That's baloney. I could sort of see them detaining someone at the scene and a judge saying it wasn't an arrest. But once they take him to the station and he is not free to leave of his own accord, he has been arrested, no matter who wants to redefine it.

But let's look at the alternative. If they didn't arrest him, and they took him, against his will, to a place of their choosing, that means they kidnapped him. Now, kidnapping is illegal, even for the police.

Typically when a person is handcuffed he is considered to be under arrest. However, I have never heard of a "10 foot rule." [The attorney's response to a comment on your link]

I get the sense that the lawyer doesn't really agree with that decision either.

Pvblivs...Interesting debate....I'm going to ask a local cop.....and my sister's friend, the lawyer...cause now I really want to know.

I thought handcuffs meant arrest as well. Apparently the law has specific definitions about what constitutes an arrest. My guess is one can be arrested without being placed under arrest.

Detain- when reasonable suspicion exists that the person has committed, is committing, or will commit a crime. Does not rise to the level of probable cause to actually arrest. Reasonable suspicion means that what the person is doing would lead a reasonable person to believe they are committing a crime. While not under arrest, the person is not free to leave.

Arrest- probable cause that a crime has been committed. Probable cause is a higher standard than reasonable suspicion and must be made out of some evidence that a crime actually did occur.

Zanilth said:

Assuming your rant is correct, that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion- you weren't held under state or local laws, you were caught up in a cleft of numerous issues. Nothing even remotely close to anything having to do with this case.

My apologies if ti seems like I was ranting. I was trying to correct a misconception by 'Mike'. It was meant as an illustration of how one can be 'detained', even for a long period of time, but not 'arrested'. Zimmerman was detained that night for questioning but was not arrested even though he wasn't free to leave.

As to your other points:

This doesn't change or alter the course of events as I listed earlier as a possibility- if anything, it supports my statement of possible actions.

I never meant it to be--you had mentioned you didn't know if the father's girlfriend lived alone, I was informing you that news reports said she lived with her son, who is younger than Martin. My apologies if I didn't make that clear.

What do you not understand about they cannot REQUIRE Zimmerman to go to the hospital? He has the right to refuse treatment- of which he did NOT do. SFD treated him on scene. Obviously the injuries he DID sustain weren't regarding the possible injuries he could have sustained had the altercation continued- hence his view of the necessity of use of lethal force.

I understand that they can't require Zimmerman to go to a hospital. My point in this section of the post was to explain that IF the altercation had happened as Zimmerman's brother said it did and Zimmrman was close to major permanent mental and physical impairment, the EMTs would most likely have found him unable to give informed consent to or refusal of treatment. That he was treated at the scene and refused to go to the hospital implies to me that Zimmerman's brother may have been exaggerating. However, that's just my opinion. If you believe that Zimmerman was 'close to being in diapers' for the rest of his life just prior to shooting Martin, that's up to you. I am neither going to change you mind, nor do I want to. It's debates like this that display the ability of two adults to have rational conversations and i do enjoy hearing other viewpoints than my own. It helps me keep an open mind and makes me aware of possibilities that i may not have considered. I may not agree, but it does give me something to think about.

FYI- the officer wasn't receiving the 911 calls, dispatch was. They advised him that numerous persons had called in and told him where the location was. Once again, that doesn't alter anything I said.

Numerous persons had called in from various locations. The officer still had to canvass the area in order to locate the actual scene of the crime.

Detailing the injuries, wet grass stains on his back- those two corroborate Zimmerman's account of the incident. They do not verify his account- only lead weight to his statement being the truth.

Thank you. That's what I was trying to say. They don't PROVE that Martin was the aggressor, nor do they definitively prove that Zimmerman was completely blameless. There is reasonable doubt to support both theories.

I never said they were close to his vehicle. Zimmerman returning to his vehicle doesn't mean he was there yet.

And so we only have Zimmerman's word that he was indeed on his way back to it.

It was raining. It is entirely possible that IF blood was present, it wasn't any longer due to being washed away. It is also possible that while Trayvon was 'slamming' his head on the ground, Zimmerman wasn't casually letting him do it- the impacts may have been there, but they would have been reduced as Zimmerman was fighting back.

And under a UV light, blood that is present can still show up even after an attempt has been made to wash it away. Simple rain or water isn't going to do it. I have a little gadget pen with a UV light in it, and just for fun one day at work I went to the ladies' bathroom after the janitor cleaned it and turned on the UV light. There was a lot of visible glowing spots right around the receptacle for feminine hygiene products.

As I said, I believe that is what happened, based on the information we have. No one can deny the plausibility any more than anything else concocted to suggest what happened.

At this point, both versions of the incident (Martin as the aggressor, Zimmerman as the aggressor) could equally be possible according to what is available out there to the public. No one shouldbe in any rush to judge or condemn because we don't have all the facts.

The police report details the injuries, however obviously neither them nor Zimmerman thought they warranted immediate hospital treatment, especially after being cleaned up by SFD. The fact that he was injured (noted in the police report) and was treated on scene by SFD people seem to forget. I'd be willing to bet most people who insist on claiming he would have been rushed to the hospital, or like to pretend they know what kind of damage would have been caused, have never been in a fight or in a situation where an ambulance responded yet wasn't needed.

I did on two occasions. One where an ambulance was needed, and one where it was not. i don't own a car, I ride a bike or take public transportation in my municipality, and I have been in two accidents with my bike. In one I was in the middle of downtown and the crossing guard had just told me to go ahead and cross the intersection when a green Jag decided to run the red light, narrowly missed hitting the crossing guard, ran into my front rim and threw the bike in the air (I was not on it, I was walking my bike across the intersecton according to city laws) An ambulance responded, but apart from some sundry scrapes and bruises I was unhurt and I refused a ride to the hospital.

The second accident was also on my bike, I was coasting down a hill in a residential neighborhood when a car and my bike collided. I was thrown off and landed hard on the pavement. The back of my head hit the pavement, didn't bleed, but the side of my face where I next contacted the pavement was so messed up that when my husband came to the ER he didn't recognize me at first. I remember trying to tell the EMTs that I was okay. I remember someone asking me where my parents were (mistaking me for a kid) and I was coherent and calm enough to tell them my cellphone was in my backpack and my husband was listed in the caller ID as 'Baby'. I just wanted to go home but they refused to listen, took me to the hospital in the ambulance and it turned out that I fractured my jaw, cheekbone, and orbital socket and I now have two plates in my face holding it all together. I'm a firm believer in the fact that EMTs are trained enough to know when someone is impaired enough to need a hospital even if they are refusing, and when someone does indeed not need a hospital and in my case the two times when an ambulance was called the correct decisions have been made.

In order to compete a timeline all we need is the exact time of the 911 call in which the shot was heard, and the exact length of time the call took place.

While it may be out there, I haven't seen a released timeline of the calls- only the calls themselves without timestamps. I'm sure that is some of the things they are keeping for the investigation.

I'm positive of that. It's one of the first things I looked for when trying to piece together what happened from my own research (not witness testimony and hearsay.) I tend to think that there was no police coverup, that they did everything they were supposed to--secured the crime scene, removed the weapon from the subject, and referred the case to Major Crimes. I tend to agree with the finidngs on the police report, i agree that it wasn't murder, but I do wonder why the prosecutor chose not to prosecute even after them police stated the entire incident was a violation of FL statute 782.11. he may or may not be guilty of negligent manslaughter but I do believe he should have been given a fair trial by a jury of his peers. I believe a great deal of the hype around this case has been done on purpose to sensationalize it and keep it in the headlines.

I also believe that whether Zimmerman is guilty or not, whether a court finds him guilty of manslaughter or innocent of murder, he has to live with what he did for the rest of his life, and if there is a God and he does judge you once you're dead, then Zimmerman is going to get exactly what he deserves, no more and no less, from a higger Power than what we have here. And that is going to be between his God and him. A guilty or innocent verdict isn't going to make the world stop turning, prevent the sun from rising, stop the rain from falling. In the long run, in the big picture, this is relatively insignificant.

So when Zimmerman supposedly said "f....C", he was actually talking about it being cold. For Fl it was cold and rainy that night. If he wanted trouble why bother calling the police - ever?

So Zimmeran was suspicious of Martin and Martin became suspicious of Zimmerman and hence what supposedly brought him back to face Zimmerman. Martin should have proceeded back to the apartment and called the police, or if he had a cell phone call the police as Zimmerman had done. Martin is a teenager that probably thought he could take on this small guy, and calling the police is not a typical decision by youth. Sadly, he never counted on a gun when he decided to confront Zimmerman.

The fact that Martin was suspended for drugs, or possible theft/burglary issues, is not relevant. About all it does is reveal that Martin was not a model student. A 10 day suspension is serious. However, the police report about Zimmerman paints him as somebody with at least past issues.

What does bother me a lot is that the only justice the family and the black community want is for Zimmerman to be arrested and found guilty regardless of what the fact finding reveal. All of us should want the truth to come out if at all possible. We all should want to have confidence in the criminal justice system. So if after a lengthy investigation they do not arrest Zimmerman then what? What if they do arrest him due to street pressure, and the jury finds him innocent. What if they find him guilty due to street pressure?

I really am sad for the divide in our country regarding race matters. The WH should never have gotten involved and have great added to the distrust across the US. If the WH felt the need to speak about this case, why not other cases as well? This is the second race case this president has chosen to speak about? The last painted the white police officer as a racist, and now we are painting the police as incompetents.

Obama is not impartial, especially when it comes to matters of race.Two white British teenagers were brutally murdered in Florida, their parents wrote to Obama, asking for an explanation or some expression of condolences for their loss, response from WH? Bupkis. Nada. Seems he only weighs in on cases where there's a black victim.

It was meant as an illustration of how one can be 'detained', even for a long period of time, but not 'arrested'.

Unfortunately, citizens and (even suspected) non-citizens are held to different standards. Once the police cuffed him it could be construed as detainment, but once they brought him to the precinct it was considered an arrest. They even listed charges on the report they had used to bring him in- the DA told them charges wouldn't be pressed because the evidence supported Zimmerman's version of events.

you had mentioned you didn't know if the father's girlfriend lived alone, I was informing you that news reports said she lived with her son, who is younger than Martin.

Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying that.

That he was treated at the scene and refused to go to the hospital implies to me that Zimmerman's brother may have been exaggerating. However, that's just my opinion. If you believe that Zimmerman was 'close to being in diapers' for the rest of his life just prior to shooting Martin, that's up to you.

No, I agree with you here- Zimmerman's brother was clearly embellishing the events. In all reality though, who is to say the next 'head slam' or punch wouldn't cause more serious injury? If two people are fighting and one (especially the 'winner') isn't seeming to stop, the use of force becomes necessary to prevent the whole 'being in diapers for the rest of his life' issue.

The funny thing is, had everything played out identically to how the case seems to have happened BUT Zimmerman was 'winning' the fight, had he not stopped he could be charged. The story is based on that Zimmerman didn't believe Trayvon was going to stop- thus defending himself with lethal force.

They don't PROVE that Martin was the aggressor, nor do they definitively prove that Zimmerman was completely blameless. There is reasonable doubt to support both theories.

They don't prove no, but lead credibility. Should anything come out to refute Zimmerman's claim, then that could be used to invalidate his statement, but until then- Zimmerman's story is accepted because the evidence at the scene back it up.

And under a UV light, blood that is present can still show up even after an attempt has been made to wash it away. Simple rain or water isn't going to do it. I have a little gadget pen with a UV light in it, and just for fun one day at work I went to the ladies' bathroom after the janitor cleaned it and turned on the UV light. There was a lot of visible glowing spots right around the receptacle for feminine hygiene products.

Well, this wasn't a case of CSI, normal detective work served to suffice. Even had Zimmerman bashed his own head against the ground (as some have suggested) there would still be blood there visible by a UV light- so it really doesn't matter in regards.

At this point, both versions of the incident (Martin as the aggressor, Zimmerman as the aggressor) could equally be possible according to what is available out there to the public.

Not really- those who suggest Zimmerman was the aggressor in the physical confrontation have absolutely no validity in the case facts as known. While it is perfectly acceptable for people to doubt Zimmerman's version of the story, those who are in charge of the investigation know they must have facts to state such. The DA is going to have a VERY hard time, likely impossible, proving that Zimmerman fired erroneously.

No one shouldbe in any rush to judge or condemn because we don't have all the facts.

I agree- all we can do is form opinions based on the facts that have been released. The fact that the DA chose to not press charges, and the fact that Zimmerman still hasn't been arrested, leads weight to the belief that any other evidence also supports Zimmerman.

Personally, should anything come out to show Zimmerman was the aggressor, then by all means pick him up and put him in court- but until then, as it stands this was simply a wrong place at the wrong time, in a bad situation made by bad decisions on both sides.

I'm a firm believer in the fact that EMTs are trained enough to know when someone is impaired enough to need a hospital even if they are refusing, and when someone does indeed not need a hospital and in my case the two times when an ambulance was called the correct decisions have been made.

I wrecked a YZF600r crotch rocket, shattering my collarbone, giving myself a concussion, and rashing myself all up. I had a friend drive my daughter and I to the hospital (long story- the accident was right at my house, on the road I lived on, while trying to show my friend about riding... Bad ground wire on the wiring harness, lost power and lost front wheel traction on a few pieces of loose gravel), walked in myself, and coherently gave an account of the incident. I can upload photos on photobucket and send you the link if you'd like :)

The point in this being, different injuries impact people differently. I was coherent enough to ensure my daughter (who was 2 at the time, luckily she didn't actually see me rolling down the road, only my bike as it passed the front door and ramped over a speedbump...) was taken care of, and coherent enough to give a descriptive detailing of the incident. I guarantee I hit my head harder than Trayvon slammed Zimmerman's down :)

I'm positive of that. It's one of the first things I looked for when trying to piece together what happened from my own research (not witness testimony and hearsay.) I tend to think that there was no police coverup, that they did everything they were supposed to--secured the crime scene, removed the weapon from the subject, and referred the case to Major Crimes.

We both agree on this- the accounts of the police not doing their job was just media jumping the gun, and people who feel they know what should have happened wondering why it didn't happen the way they felt it should have.

but I do wonder why the prosecutor chose not to prosecute even after them police stated the entire incident was a violation of FL statute 782.11.

From what I understand, the DA felt there was not enough evidence to convict, and chose to not charge to avoid a very likely lawsuit. Not that it isn't a reason to not charge someone- but if the story is plausible to fit under the SYG statute, that gives Zimmerman immunity from prosecution anyway. As we both know, there are more facts and information (to include the witness statements, not just the 911 calls) that we haven't seen, that the DA had access to at the time. Likely he made his judgement considering the facts.

he may or may not be guilty of negligent manslaughter but I do believe he should have been given a fair trial by a jury of his peers

Unfortunately, if someone cites SYG and the evidence backs that person up, a trial is unnecessary and actually violates their rights. I wouldn't really consider that unfortunate in most cases though. Don't get me wrong- I do definitely believe the law needs to be rewritten- I don't agree with Zimmerman following Trayvon, but I do acknowledge his legal right to do so, based on the law.

In the long run, in the big picture, this is relatively insignificant.

I agree- even not counting the possible afterlife implications.

I do also want to state (not regarding the case-) if I have come off as crass, I apologize because that is not my intent. I'm simply here for some pleasurable and intelligent debate to burn some time- and discussing with those who do not automatically jump on the race bandwagon, or other issues that aren't even relevant to the case, is nice.

The fact that Martin was suspended for drugs, or possible theft/burglary issues, is not relevant. About all it does is reveal that Martin was not a model student. A 10 day suspension is serious. However, the police report about Zimmerman paints him as somebody with at least past issues.

I feel it is relevant in regards to the same relevance as Zimmerman's history- they bring up history to show Zimmerman isn't an angel- so bring up the same for Trayvon. While Trayvon's haven't been violent, it does go to show that the 12/14 y/o picture they are passing around isn't quite what it seems.

While I will agree it is not relevant to the actual case, in regards to public knowledge it is very much so.

The last painted the white police officer as a racist, and now we are painting the police as incompetents.

I really feel a group of people (likely it would have to come from Congress, or even some state officials across the country) should issue the President a letter of reprimand for doing these two things. Even if it means absolutely nothing, you are correct that the President doesn't need to get involved. All he is doing is pandering to his base.

Two white British teenagers were brutally murdered in Florida, their parents wrote to Obama, asking for an explanation or some expression of condolences for their loss, response from WH?

My, my , myGirl, let me ask, did the police fail to investigate this crime, know who was responsible, but fail to make a arrest?

The Trayvon Martin case is newsworthy, controversial, and worth a comment by the White House because an unarmed teenager appears to have been accosted by a private citizen who, after an altercation of unknown cause, shot the youth dead.

In most jurisdictions that constitutes a crime. People are curious as to why it is not a crime in Florida.

Murders, such as the one to which you allude, are tragic, but are hardly controversial in terms of how the law regards them. If you can show me that the police failed to take action to find or apprehend the murderers of these two British youths, then I'll cede the point. But, from your recounting, all I can tell is that a murder was committed. I've no way of knowing how the law acted [or failed to act].

I was giving the "Stand Your Ground" aspect of this case some more thought.....If Zimmerman was hit first and on his back on the ground as he stated, he can't "Stand his Ground"....and he can't retreat, as was required in the old law.....It then becomes a simple case of self defence in which Deadly Force is allowed...even when the Duty to Retreat was part of the Self-Defence Statute....

dman-353357....."In most jurisdictions that constitutes a crime. People are curious as to why it is not a crime in Florida."

23 States have similar Stand Your Ground statutes and it is in the legislatures of 10 more states .....

They will have to produce some compelling evidence in order to arrest Zimmerman at this point. It's probably not going to happen despite the public pressure. Hopefully no riots will break out over this.

They will have to produce some compelling evidence in order to arrest Zimmerman at this point.

I'm kinda mixed about this... I don't see them leaving it as is, I do believe they will arrest him and charge him, but unless they have that compelling evidence, the case will be thrown out or he will be acquitted..

The 'mixed' part is if they would risk that for public opinion (they can get out of it by stating interpretation issues) but if they do, they'll seal him from ever being prosecuted for it again under double jeopardy laws.

State Attorney Angela Corey did not take the case to a grand jury because she knew if she did there was not enough evidence or preponderance of evidence to suggest George Zimmerman committed a crime.

In this way she can keep the case alive and dig as much in to this case as necessary to make sure there was a crime. I think the evidence will prove George Zimmerman's side of the story. She just wants to make sure before she faces the media vultures and the Martin family that she has crossed all of her "T's" and dotted all of her "i's."

This is just like the O.J. trial.

Not that there aren't obviously serious issues here but I think a big part of the reason these tragic situations are given so much time in the corporate media is that they tend to divide average americans (the 99% if you will).

The "gun nut's" can hate the "Libs", blacks are more suspicious of whites and vice versa, etc. etc.

Meanwhile the 1% sit back and laugh and feel more secure.

Divide and conquer, one of the oldest tricks in the book but still very serviceable.

dman: Puzzle me this, what would it hurt to send a letter of condolence to grieving parents, regardless of race or the fact that that case hasn't been splashed all over the media for weeks now? It's called compassion.

Compassion only happens in heavily politicized stories? Perhaps you might want to ask why Obama can be compassionate and express concern to Trayvon's family but not to other families whose murdered children's faces weren't splashed all over the media. They were white teenagers, they were brutally murdered, why don't they rate on the compassion meter?

Makes him seem either uncaring, only looking for an opportunity to weigh in on a black teenager's death or else, the other story didn't have the coverage that Trayvon's case is getting and the victims were white.

Pvblivs,

Peach sputed out some fiction and you say "great post."

ThePeach wrote an outstanding post and hats off to him.

Pvblivs

Well, I suppose the lynch mob has to stick together.

The lynch mob is George Zimmerman, his dad and Wolfinger.

The the above amoral mob have "stuck together." They are engaged in a cover up.

I will try to counter you

"Try" is your only option.

You do not have any supporting facts.

"justice deniers"

Failing to arrest Zimmerman is denying Trayvon justice.

Zimmerman was short, fat, and out of shape.

Agreed, his is out of shape.

On February 26, 2012, he was probably panting and sweating.

The facts support that Zimmerman approached Trayvon.

George is a coward. His gun made him feel like a "man."

Aggressors (like Martin) do not run away. They pursue their victing (Zimmerman being an example of a victim.)

Zimmerman is a victim of his own arrogance and a twisted mind.

Your tricks at role reversal are not working.

It is the fact that Martin was beating Zimmerman to death that exonerates Zimmerman

Pvblvis, you are a lover of lies.

Martin was the sort of person that would attack Zimmerman

Zimmerman was arrested for assaulting a police officer. He is a felon.

...two audio experts said just what they were instructed to say.

Provide the names of the person(s) who "instructed" the audio experts to come to their reasonable conclusions. The 2 audio experts reached professional and technology based conclusions that George's voice is not the voice that is heard on the audio tape screaming, "help!" The audio analysis has a 90% or greater accuracy rate.

But I don't use your logic. I use the facts.

You have not used any logic.

male's voice pitch goes up (slowly) as he gets older.

Zimmerman is 11 years older than young, Mr. Martin.

Your own statement supports that it is Trayvon's voice is the voice, that is heard on the audio tape.

You are sinking in sand.

we know that the police wanted Zimmerman charged

Zimmerman should have been charged. At this point in time, he should have had court and trial dates.

he's a dangerous killer

He is a dangerous killer.

Zimmerman shot Trayvon, and now this child is dead.

Martin got justice.

Your above degenerative statement is cherished only by the illogical, vigilantes and the criminal.

The highest law of this land...

"life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," states that Trayvon was robbed of justice.

Constitutional law says that Zimmerman should receive his justice in a criminal court.

So far as I'm aware, SYG wouldn't protect Zimmerman if he was in the wrong and it legitimately protects him if he wasn't in the wrong. So I'm not sure it's the law that's the problem so much as the difficulties of figuring out and proving what actually happened so the law can be correctly applied.

Walker:

The lynch mob is George Zimmerman, his dad and Wolfinger.

I highly doubt that they are among the ones who want to lynch George Zimmerman.

Failing to arrest Zimmerman is denying Trayvon justice.

You do realize, of course, that the police did arrest Zimmerman. But since the prosecutor wouldn't file charges, they had to let him go.

Provide the names of the person(s) who "instructed" the audio experts to come to their reasonable conclusions. The 2 audio experts reached professional and technology based conclusions that George's voice is not the voice that is heard on the audio tape screaming, "help!" The audio analysis has a 90% or greater accuracy rate.

I don't need the names of the people who gave them their instructions. I can deduce the fact from their baloney. The only place you heard 90% was when the experts said that a staticky recording comparing a distress scream to a non-distress baseline should give a computed 90% match and there was only a computed 45% match. They didn't say anything about an accuracy rate.

Zimmerman is 11 years older than young, Mr. Martin.

Yes, so if anything Martin's voice should be deeper, not higher-pitched.

The facts support that Zimmerman approached Trayvon

Here is the full list of facts that support that contention. [crickets chirping]

Zimmerman should have been charged. At this point in time, he should have had court and trial dates.

What can I say? The prosecutor didn't want to waste his time with an acquittal.

Seriously, in your version of events you've got the police "knowing" he's a dangerous killer and wanting to lock him away for life, but pressuring witnesses to lie to aid the defense. [What I actually said]

he's a dangerous killer [How you quoted it]

Given the very blatant misrepresentation of what I have said, I can't grant your post any merit.

Pvblvis, you are a lover of lies.

Your misrepresentation speaks for itself.

Your above degenerative statement is cherished only by the illogical, vigilantes and the criminal.

You mean another quote mine to misrepresent what I said?

Martin got justice. He was killed while he was trying to beat someone else to death. [What I actually said]

The part you left out was essential. If, for example, Zimmerman shot Martin from the safety of his truck, that would not have been justice. But Martin decided to attack Zimmerman. He was killed, not out of revenge, not out of spite, but in an act of self-defense. It is the fact that it was in self-defense and only that fact that makes it justice. If Zimmerman had somehow survived the ordeal without using his gun (unlikely) and decided to "even the score" the following day, I would agree that he should be charged and even convicted. But that's not what happened.

Lamarquise:

So far as I'm aware, SYG wouldn't protect Zimmerman if he was in the wrong and it legitimately protects him if he wasn't in the wrong.

That is correct. In essence, this law just means that someone who acts in self-defense doesn't have the double-whammy of having to prove it or go to jail for a justified action. Proving self-defense is hard, especially when the people in charge of the initial collection of evidence want to sabotage that claim.

The Martin family and their lawyer, Benjamin Crump, have claimed the teen wasn't the aggressor, saying his race played a role in the fatal shooting. On Monday, the lawyer said he welcomed Corey’s decision.

Well, since none of them were there, they don't know that race played a role and are in denial that their son beat Zimmerman.

Following a man is justification to beat him, but beating a man isn't justification for shooting?

Twisted logic

Morning Mike, Leiya, welcome Bill in Delray!!

dman: Puzzle me this, what would it hurt to send a letter of condolence to grieving parents, regardless of race or the fact that that case hasn't been splashed all over the media for weeks now? It's called compassion.

MyGirl - in this country there are approximately 5 murders for every 100,000 people, every year. Assuming the U.S. population is around 300 million, that comes out to about 15,000 homicides every year. Do you really expect the President of United States to involve himself personally in each one?

If not, what makes the murder of two British teenagers merit special attention?

The George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin case is in the news because it deals with a central issue in our society, when is deadly force justified. It also involves a controversial law, the "stand your ground" self defense law, that some feel amounts to a hunting license to any vigilante, intent on enforcing his [or her] version of public order.

Compassion only happens in heavily politicized stories? Perhaps you might want to ask why Obama can be compassionate and express concern to Trayvon's family but not to other families whose murdered children's faces weren't splashed all over the media.

I'll repeat my previous question to you: Are the police not actively seeking the killers of these two teenagers, or are they already under arrest?

If the police have declined to take any action regarding these murders, then your point has merit. Otherwise, the death of these two British teenagers are just two more killings among the thousands which occur every every year in the U.S., tragic, but hardly meriting the attention of the White House.

To my knowledge George Zimmerman was only briefly taken into custody on the night of the shooting, and has not yet been charged. Yet an unarmed teenager, whom he followed despite police advice, was shot dead by him. Chances are, absent the storm of protest, the local prosecutor's office would have quietly ignored the case.

You see the difference, I hope?

Zanilth said:

Unfortunately, if someone cites SYG and the evidence backs that person up, a trial is unnecessary and actually violates their rights. I wouldn't really consider that unfortunate in most cases though. Don't get me wrong- I do definitely believe the law needs to be rewritten- I don't agree with Zimmerman following Trayvon, but I do acknowledge his legal right to do so, based on the law.

I didn't like the wording on that law--too vague, too broad in scope and definition. My state is one of the ones that is currently considering adopting it, and I'm wondering.

A few years back I was walking along a sidewalkin my municipality, crossing a roadway bridge that runs over a waterfront park. There was a guy on the sidewalk behind me and I wasn't paying a lot of attention. I saw an abandoned fishing rod that looked to still be in pretty good condition in the mud at low-tide, and I stepped off the sidewalk, waded through waist-high grass and crouched to dig it out of the mud (even if it wasn't in good condition I was still not going to leave it there, it's litter.) Just as I crouched, this guy behind me--who had followed me off the sidewalk and down to the river's edge--stuck his hand between my legs and grabbed a ahndful of my privates.

I yelled, he took off, I pursued. Grabbed my cell and called police as I was following him down the sidewalk. Yes, they did tell me to stop. I ignored them and continued. About a quarter mile further on I caught up to him and grabbed the strap of his shoulder bag (he was carrying a duffel bag) to keep him from leaving until the cops got there. He hit me with his cane around the ribs until I let him go, but I continued to follow him for about another mile or so until the cops caught up with us. They told me since he didn't make an attempt to remove my clothes, it wasn't considered a sexual assault, so they took his name, address, and other info, released him, told me to go to the court commissioner's and file a complaint for a summons to have him appear in court.

The court commissioner looked him up and found he was a registered sex offender, just touched down out of jail for molesting a 10 year old girl. He said that based on that fact, and my appearance at the time (bellbottom jeans, my niece's Hannah Montana t-shirt, sneakers with rainbow hearts [I wear a sz 3 shoe] and hair in two braids) there was reasonable cause to think he mistook me for a minor and he believed he could get away with it, as there had been other complaints filed against him by the parents of another child but the child was too traumatized to testify. So he put out a warrant for the guy's arrest.

It took the cops 2 weeks to find him because the address he provided the Sex Offender Registry was wrong, and after a year of going back and forth to court he was convicted of 4th degree sex assault , illegal weapon (had a knife on him longer than the legal allowable limit at time of arrest) and assault and battery because he hit me with his cane while I was trying to prevent him fleeing the scene. His lawyer argued that I laid hands on him first and he was just defending himself, and looking at this Stand Your Ground law now I wonder how that would have played out. Even if he laid hands on me first, would he get to hide behind this law because I pursued him? Because of that assault conviction he now has to register as a violent sexual predator for the rest of his life, where before if he stayed off radar for 10 years after he got off he could have his name taken off the registry.

I'd like to hear your take on this scenario.

(BTW--he was released eight months later on appeal because the appeals judge said since I wasn't a minor what he did wasn't a reflection off his prior bad act. I have a restraining order out against him for ten years, he still lives in my community and I still bump into him occasionally on the bus.)

I do also want to state (not regarding the case-) if I have come off as crass, I apologize because that is not my intent. I'm simply here for some pleasurable and intelligent debate to burn some time- and discussing with those who do not automatically jump on the race bandwagon, or other issues that aren't even relevant to the case, is nice.

My apologies for the temporary sidetrack into issues of detention, I was actually responding to Mike and Publius's discussion on what constitutes arrest and detention and what differentiates the two. I should have quoted their post, not yours. Trust_Verify has his own ongoing issues regarding my personal history and that wasn't something I meant to drag into this conversation.

Talking to you largely has been like talking to my Dad, a Vietnam vet--we had a lot of discussions when I was growing up and I owe a lot of my open-mindedness and fair thinking to his tutelage and instruction, and a lot of times I wish he were still around so I could talk to him about stuff like this.

whom he followed despite police advice,

Since when is a 911 dispatcher the police?

You see the difference, I hope?

You see the difference, I hope?

No I do not. A police dispatcher may not be a police officer, but they do have knowledge of police procedures. When you talk to a dispatcher, you are not receiving informal advice from somebody on the street, you are speaking with an employee of the police department.

George Zimmerman was specifically requested not to follow Trayvon Martin. A request he ignored. The police did not ignore his report. A squad car arrived only minutes later, but too late to prevent the shooting.

What reason was there for George Zimmerman to have followed Trayvon Martin, an action which most of us would view as aggressive and highly suspicious?

dman-353357..."If not, what makes the murder of two British teenagers merit special attention." "and hardly merit the attention of the White House."

The WhiteHouse only involves itself when the "victim" is Black and the "Perps" are White. As in The New Black Pampers Voter Intimidation in Philly ( case dismissed by Holder after the DOJ had a judgement against them) , "The police acted stupidly when it was his Black Professor friend, and now this case.

I'm thinking if the 2 British Tourists were from Kenya and the shooter was white or a white-hispanic, The WhiteHouse would have chimed in. The other point of why they won't is the killer was a black 17 yr.old "child" (the way so many are calling Trayvon). The bodies were found shot, with their shirts up and their pants pulled down....what kind of sicko does that.... The convicted 17yr.old MURDERER looks like such a nice boy....Have a look:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/nation/fla-teen-guilty-of-murdering-2-british-tourists-2267785.html

"Chances are, absent the storm of protest, the local prosecutor's office would have quietly ignored the case."

And if Zimmerman was a Black-Hispanic it would have been ignored by the press and Al and Jesse and the rest.

Hey Fed..

The convicted 17yr.old MURDERER looks like such a nice boy....Have a look:

So what? He looks like an average, young black male, but in fact he was a thug. There are white thugs too.

The point you seem to miss is that this young man is facing life in prison. So where is the controversy which so outrages you?

Two murders were committed. The perpetrator was caught, tried and convicted. What further action are you looking for from the White House?

I can't speak about the Black Panther's supposed voter intimidation case. But with regard to case of the Black Professor's conflict with the Cambridge police, after initially sticking his foot in his mouth, I thought the President did the right thing in inviting both parties to the White House. If you see it otherwise, you are entitled to your opinion.

Neither you, nor I, nor mygirl, or anybody else on the planet knows of a certainty what would have happened if George Zimmerman had been black, or a black hispanic. My guess is that he would have been arrested and charged that night, not detained, questioned and then released.

But that is just my guess.

Regardless of the relative colors of the individuals, George Zimmerman's actions that night hardly seem justified, and for a man who was being beaten so badly that he felt in immanent fear for his life and well being, he looked remarkably undamaged on the police video of him entering the police station. On scene treatment can wipe away blood, but it cannot wipe away scratches, bruises, or a broken nose.

dman

When you talk to a dispatcher, you are not receiving informal advice from somebody on the street, you are speaking with an employee of the police department.

Actually you may or may not be speaking with a police dept employee. More than likely it is a city/county employee who is a 9-1-1 dispatcher. In locations where dispatchers are certified they are trained in DISPATCHING, first aid instruction via phone, and not placing themselves or those they work for in danger of lawsuit. When they speak to someone on the phone it is at best advice and even that may be a stretch of the definition. Even if the information 9-1-1 provides is 100% WRONG they are generally held immune from liability.

Take the case of the woman over the holidays who had someone breaking into her residence. She TOLD the dispatcher she was armed and ASKED if she should shoot the intruder. Dispatch basically said you are on your own we can't advise you.

A squad car arrived only minutes later, but too late to prevent the shooting.

Doesn't always happen that way... perhaps why George made the statement "@!$%#s always get away"? A case in D.C. exemplifies the issue with believing 9-1-1. A woman heard an intruder, called 9-1-1 was assured police were on the way. Called back 5 minutes later was again told the police were on the way. 14 hours later a neighbor saw the door open, entered and called 9-1-1 to report finding that woman beaten into a coma and it was another 30 minutes before police arrived. Police SOLVE crimes, rarely prevent them.

Interesting point regarding police dispatchers. Nevertheless, they are the interface between the police and the people calling in. They are expected to be trained in both gathering facts and advising callers.

If not, why did George even bother to call?

Doesn't always happen that way... perhaps why George made the statement "@!$%#s always get away"? A case in D.C. exemplifies the issue with believing 9-1-1.

Washington DC and Sanford Florida are two quite different communities. In most suburban communities, police are on site within minutes in response to a 911 call.

Moreover, Trayvon Martin was not breaking into any house. Could he not have waited a few minutes before accosting the youth?

Funny the white house has to weigh in on this story as a further step towards racial division. After 4 years of silence, Obama’s radical preacher is on the scene again, preaching more racial division.

Why is Obama coming to Boca Raton FAU campus today to brainwash the college students to vote for him again? This incident happened on HIS watch! He has done nothing for the black community except to further bring them down and racially divide. What lies does he have planned to tell them about the current job situation after they graduate?

It looks like the Prosecutor doesnt think a Grand Jury will indict, she must have a very weak case.

Steve, I would say just the opposite, if she had a weak case, she would have let a GRAND JURY decide, after all they are known to indite a "ham sandwich"...

She said from the time she was chosen to take over that she probably wasn't going to send it to the Grand Jury (the last prosecutor convened them, not her)...so this is no surprise.

DMAN, you can goto www.wagist.com for much of the information, overhead maps, and timestamping. The video from the police station is too grainy to show injuries. There are no closeup shots.

The area is a gated community that had seen a number of recent breakins. Zimm thought Trayvon was casing apartments. Zimm continued to watch him while talking to the police when Trayvon suddenly bolted. That's when Zimm got out of his car. After chasing Trayvon for 20 seconds, Zimm ran out of breath and gave up. That's what happens when you are a fat out of shape guy with the size/height somewhere between Seinfeld's Costanza and Newman (5 foot 8/220-230 pounds). 2 minutes later in a spot 10-15 yards from where Zimm had stopped to rest is where the fight happened, even though Trayvon's father's girlfriend's house is about 300 yards away at the end of the sidewalk, less than 1 minute run time. It's a straight line. Zimm would never catch Trayvon in any race, no matter what, especially in a supposedly "life or death" race that Trayvon had a headstart of at least 15-20 yards.

The truth is that yes Zimm was the aggressor to start, but the situation was already defused. Trayvon purposely doubled back to start a fight and attacked Zimm. With this time gap and where the fight occurred, there really isn't any doubt. There is really only 1 eyewitness. The guy who called into the police who says Zimm was essentially getting the crap kicked out of him. All other witnesses got there afterwards, where of course Zimm will always look the aggressor. Trayvon has already been shot.

Gabbo1,

Do you get paid to write that fiction?

Ha, fiction. You tell me what is fiction about it. You can't fake the maps and area, confirmed by google and Ny Times. You can't fake the timestamps, which were both provided by the police and Trayvon's family. You can't fake the exact spot where the fight was, eyewitnesses. You can't fake that Trayvon was a thug who was the local drug/pot dealer and helped organize his own fight club, his very own youtube/twitter/facebook pages. You can't fake that Zimm was a pudgy moron, any number of sources. Zimm's and the eyewitness's calls were released, not faked.

If you don't believe it, that's not my fault. It's like CSI, you can only go off the evidence. All of it supports Zimm's side, whether you believe it or not. Why do you think Trayvon's family has conflicting stories? Or that their lawyers are shutting all the youtube/facebook/twitter as well as his school suspension info? Or that they won't let people talk to Trayvon's girlfriend?

How about this, you give me a plausible scenario. There is a 2 minute window, Trayvon's house is less than 1 minute away. If Trayvon was running away like the girlfriend says, how didn't he get home unless he purposely turns around?

Look--can we quit with the "Martin was the aggressor" stuff? Nobody knows what happened with the altercation--nobody knows.

What do we know--we know that there is a series of 911 calls that are time stamped, some of them have audio in the background that is relevant. We know that there are dispatch times for the police. We know that there were statements taken from witnesses--but we have no idea how accurate the statements are because we don't have audio. Why it is that the police do not make audio tapes when they are getting statements has always puzzled me--it seems to me that they prefer their own written down versions to the audio, because then their versions become the "official" record.

What else do we know? We know that the police refused to release the 911 calls, even though it is common practice and also a legal requirement that 911 calls are released (which is why we get those awful 911 audios along with stories). We know that the police have not released pictures of the death scene--no pictures of what Zimmerman looked like when apprehended, no pictures of Trayvon's hands, no pictures of the concrete on which Zimmerman's head was apparently pounded, no pictures of blood-spatter marks to determine how far Zimmerman was from Martin at the time of the shooting, no . . . .

What we don't have is telling. Anyone who thinks the fact that Zimmerman's dad was a judge in another district/state is apparently unaware that judges pretty much know one another and pretty much know the DAs. They hang out together--there are conferences and other get-togethers in which they become familiar with one another and network. That's how they advance from a local area to a state level to a national level. Yes, a judge's son is going to get the white-gloves treatment because the local police know that if they don't, they face a much higher chance of getting zinged by the judge and the judge's lawyer friends for any teeny-tiny misdoing and also face the certainty of their careers ending because the judge has a network of friends.

It's a little like the reason why teachers and college professors are loathe to flunk the kids of school board members or state regents.

It is the lack of evidence that is telling. If Zimmerman was telling the truth--and some of it might be truth--then there should be evidence to back him up. Theoretically, he had a broken nose and went to the hospital--where are the X-rays? If he had gone to a hospital and reported that he'd had his head bashed on the sidewalk, there would be X-rays of that also, because the hospital would be doing a CYA in case he later died of hemorrhaging. There have been no hospital reports and there have been no X-rays. Again, this tells us quite a bit (mostly, that they don't exist).

What we are left with is evidence produced by the police--the same group of people now in trouble--that justifies Zimmerman's account. We are also left with conflicting reports by the witnesses--some of whom now say that the police did not record their comments accurately or pressured them to say things that they did not want to say (which is a common police tactic). What we don't have is concrete evidence--because that evidence wasn't gathered.

Unless we are lucky enough that the timeline of calls and police dispatches establishes that there wasn't enough time for Zimmerman's version to have occurred, or unless we are really, really lucky and someone had a security camera pointed out a window and recording in the area, then we aren't going to really know what happened.

Was Zimmerman covered by the Stand Your Ground law--no, actually, he wasn't (not according to the people who wrote the law). He didn't have a good reason to be following Martin because that's not what Neighborhood Watch people do. They don't patrol, because patrolling is typically done by people in uniforms--it is done by people in uniforms for just this reason, so as not to make the people being watched feel like they are being stalked by criminals. It wasn't Zimmerman's ground to stand on--it was somebody else's backyard that he was cutting through.

Did Martin and Zimmerman have a verbal altercation? Probably. Zimmerman does appear to have used an epithet or two--what he was referring to might be up for debate, but it's completely likely that Martin heard it the same way I did (as a racial epithet), whether or not that's what Zimmerman meant. Martin felt threatened--and perhaps he did make a bad decision to try fists--but did he know Zimmerman had a gun? If he'd known that, he most likely wouldn't have made the decision to try fists. Is it right to first make someone feel threatened, to provoke that person, and when that person decides to try fists because he thinks the fight is fairly even--to pull a gun and end the altercation?

Well, I sure hope not. Otherwise, you've just created a modus operendi by which anyone can easily murder someone else (well, anyone else who would be willing to stand and fight) and get away with it.

In any case--the police conducted a very sloppy investigation. Did they do it intentionally--possibly. Did they get rid of evidence that they'd already gathered--maybe. Did they alter their records--well, there's more than one version of a couple of those records, some with more details--so maybe. Can Zimmerman be convicted at this point--probably not. Charged--I don't know. Convicted--I doubt it.

This doesn't make Zimmerman innocent. And, whether or not Martin was a wannabe "gangsta," who was imitating his "gangsta rap" heroes, that doesn't make him worthy of being executed.

The Martin family can bring a civil suit. They can bring it against the Neighborhood Watch association (and already have). They can bring it against the police, for failing to document things properly and also for refusing to release the 911 tapes as they should have. There are some other possibilities--but the most likely successful suit will be against the Neighborhood Watch Association.

But, given that the police appear to have disappeared evidence or never bothered to gather it, and also appear to have altered testimony, a conviction doesn't even look possible unless someone finds a camera with evidence that is disseminated before the police get to it. I don't see, personally, how this differs from many cases that involve the children of wealthy people--the police know perfectly well how to fail to gather information and to create a poor case. Happens all the time--very, very sad. The people with the capital rarely get charged with capital crimes.

And, yes, a person can be taken into custody without being arrested--and it is procedure in many places to put cuffs on anyone transported in a police vehicle (even if that person is taken into custody for his/her protection).

I'd like to hear your take on this scenario.

This is a touchy situation from what I can tell- In Florida, you have the right to follow someone in certain cases in regards to a crime (for example, one case a guy stole person b's radio... Person b followed him a few blocks and demanded his property back... Altercation broke out, person b killed the thief, and was able to be covered under SYG, because he had a legal right to follow and attempt to ask for his property back. I'm assuming the other guy hit him first, but I haven't read the exact case specifics.) I'm not 100% certain how that would apply to your case- but you do have the right to detain someone who is in the commission of a crime (yours could be construed that while he had assaulted you, he had retreated and was no longer in the process of committing a crime.) My opinion (uncertain, but from what I could see- although as I said I'm not sure exactly how your case would fit:)

In this precise scenario, the SYG law wouldn't be applicable because no one was killed. If, once he started caning you, you were to have pulled out a weapon and shot/stabbed him, then I'm not really certain how it would go- I could see it both ways, but how they specifically applied the law would be testy.

If the situation were slightly different- say you reacted to him grabbing you when he did and the physical altercation started there, it would be completely different.

Look--can we quit with the "Martin was the aggressor" stuff? Nobody knows what happened with the altercation--nobody knows.

Only if we can quit with the "Zimmerman was the aggressor" stuff as well- from the information we have, Zimmerman was defending himself. If you choose to not believe the witness statements on the 911 calls who described Trayvon on top, that's up to you. People seem to not understand Zimmerman was perfectly within his rights to tail Trayvon.

We know that the police have not released

Anything they haven't released can be attributed to possible investigations that are still underway- I haven't seen anything stating they had definitively closed the investigation, plus there is no statute of limitations- so the investigation can continue for years. What we DO have in regards to the police report was leaked- and they likely released the little bit they did due to pressure, and you can be assured that it was vetted what they released didn't contain information that could contaminate an investigation.

They haven't released the written witness statements- you know, the one that contested what the woman said in her interview.

Anyone who thinks the fact that Zimmerman's dad was a judge in another district/state is apparently unaware that judges pretty much know one another and pretty much know the DAs.

Anyone who calls Zimmerman's dad a judge doesn't know what they are talking about. A magistrate is NOT a judge- basically a glorified justice of the peace.

It is the lack of evidence that is telling.

It is your lack of knowledge of procedures that is telling. They won't release all of the evidence in relation to an ongoing investigation.

Theoretically, he had a broken nose and went to the hospital

Obviously you don't know the case facts. He didn't go to the hospital, he as treated on scene by SFD. There are medical records- but there is also something called HIPAA that even without the investigation would prevent them from releasing his medical records.

-the same group of people now in trouble

Wrong- the police listed charges they were arresting him under on the partial report- the DA decided to NOT press charges, and the police were forced to release him. The 'trouble' the police were supposedly in was manufactured by the media without any information- due to the investigation.

no, actually, he wasn't (not according to the people who wrote the law)

What their opinion of what they intended to write means absolutely nothing- what they wrote is what matters, and it covers him. They were pandering to people in an attempt to separate themselves from possible back-lash for writing a jacked up law.

He didn't have a good reason to be following Martin because that's not what Neighborhood Watch people do.

He did have a good reason to follow Trayvon- suspicious activity. Not like he needed a reason anyway- it's perfectly legal to walk behind someone, and it's perfectly legal to ask someone what they are up to. That doesn't mean that person has to reply- but Zimmerman was within his rights to follow and ask what he was doing.

It wasn't Zimmerman's ground to stand on--it was somebody else's backyard that he was cutting through.

Nowhere in the law does it state the ground you are standing on has to be yours- it isn't talking about ownership of the property. I wouldn't expect someone who can't get case basics to understand that though.

but it's completely likely that Martin heard it the same way I did (as a racial epithet), whether or not that's what Zimmerman meant

Trayvon was nowhere near Zimmerman when he made the 'contested comment'. He would have had to have Superman hearing to hear the comment.

when that person decides to try fists because he thinks the fight is fairly even--to pull a gun and end the altercation?

If that person assaults someone for no reason (being followed at a distance isn't a reason to assault someone, no matter if you feel scared- you have to have a justifying reason for actions, and 'being followed' isn't one.) then the person who is assaulted has the right to defend themselves.

It's quite obvious that you are manufacturing things to fit your opinion of what happened- that's quite telling to your intellectual capacity. I truly hope you are never responsible for anything where you have to use any sort of judgement call...

Gabbo - if you did view the grainy police video, you know that at the time of the incident, George Zimmerman was no more the pudgy 220 lb man pictured in the initial photo shown in the news, than Trayvon Martin was still the 13-year-old shown in his photo.

The police video, grainy or not, shows a much thinner and physically fit individual.

Taking your assumed sequence of events, that Trayvon Martin easily outdistanced his pursuer, and the the fat, out of shape Zimmerman gave up the chase: what possible motive would Trayvon Martin, a teenager on his way to his girl friend's house, have to circle back and confront his pursuer. And if he did, would not George Zimmerman, seeing the youth approach, have needed to do more than display the gun or announce its presence to prevent any attack?

Your"explanation" is neither based upon fact or even vaguely sensible.

Trayvon was headed to his father's girlfriend's house. What is clear to me though is that he did double back looking for a confrontation, from the timeline and where the fight took place, both of which were confirmed by even Trayvon's side. I did say Trayvon's motive for why he doubled back is unclear. In reality, the only 2 people that would have known is Trayvon and the girlfriend. However, given that his youtube channel has him in videos of his fight club, and his friends applaud him for hitting some bus driver on his twitter, it shows he has a propensity for fighting. Zimm is a d-bag, so I'm not excusing him either.

Ok, you give me a sensible scenario that would fit all the evidence so far, which includes: Zimm is on the phone with police and has given up chase for a minute or so before he hangs up. 2.5 minutes go by which are the ones no one can account for except Zimm and the girlfriend until the fight starts, which is on the eyewitness's call. Then another 30 seconds fight time. The house Trayvon is going to is 300 yards away, less than 1 minute run time at the end of the walkway. There are only 2 real exits to this area between apts, one exit where Trayvon and Zimm came in AND where the fight took place AND where Zimm was the whole time, and the other exit right next to his destination. You can view the overhead map at Google, NY Times, or www.wagist.com.

If Trayvon hadn't turned around, the fight would never have taken place where it did. There also wouldn't be a 3.5 minute gap from when Zimm stops chasing Trayvon till when the fight starts. Remember that the destination is at most 1 minute away.

Gabbo

Look at a MAP, Trayvon kept going "towards" house.....there is NO indication he turned around, where do you get your "facts"?

Jo-An-4354969

Gabbo

Look at a MAP, Trayvon kept going "towards" house.....there is NO indication he turned around, where do you get your "facts"?

Explain how if Trayvon was between Trayvons destination and George how they ended up at the same location as George was a distance away when he lost sight of Trayvon. Looking at the MAP George would be on the street when Trayvon takes the walkway to his right heading "home". Even if George RAN to the turn in the walkway he would still be a distance from Trayvon when he reached that point presuming Trayvon kept walking.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

Click on the blue buttons on the top left of the page to follow the route from 7/11 to where Trayvon was shot.

looked at the map.... presuming the following

Trayvon enters through either the main gate or the shortcut... either way he ends up near the clubhouse and mailboxes, where George first spots him "acting suspicious". From there he proceeds into the cut through near where the truck is depicted. Either Trayvon is always between George or walks past him at that cut through and ends up between George and where Trayvon is visiting. George MOST likely gets out once Trayvon turns the corner on the walkway behind the inner row of townhouses.

From there is where the details are in question, IMHO. Presume George would try follow Trayvon along the walkway, he would need to cover the distance from his truck to the corner at minimum. Reaching the corner of the walkway and not finding anyone he proceeds down the walkway before being told "We don't need you to do that" he responds "OK" but takes a few more steps. It's raining and getting darker. Two units down isn't that far. Figure each unit is 80x30 so he has to cover 170 feet perhaps to get where things ended badly. Easily covered in the time between getting out and the dispatch saying it is not necessary. By time George got out of his truck he is not near the mailboxes that are referred to and he is trying to best describe where he is with the whole turn left at the mailboxes comment.

Against my better judgement,

GZ lives on Retreat View Circle, he told 911 operator to meet him near Clubhouse or mailboxes, and the the suspect was heading towards back entrance, upper left corner past the home Trayvon was staying in.

I hardly think GZ jogged all the way over to street near house Trayvon was found behind, in the length of time given, he had barely started to "follow" when he was told "we don't need you to do that", we hear car doors open and him start to run.....

So, if he was headed back to his car at this time and was "attacked" it doesn't add up.

If you want to change your story to, GZ in fact, continued to follow Trayvon, and got out "again" because he lost sight of him, then that is a different story.

Either Trayvon is always between George or walks past him at that cut through and ends up between George and where Trayvon is visiting.

I thought everyone agreed GZ was following Trayvon, so I don't see where he "walks past him".

Regardless, GZ had to have gotten out of his vehicle a 2nd time to follow Trayvon, the rest is speculation,

I have my opinion, and you have yours.

I'm not going to argue my point, I'm sure GZ showed the police his exact route, and we will see it when he goes to court.

Good day!

Jo An, yes you have the map. Zimm first spots Trayvon at the clubhouse with the pool. Zimm is in his car in front of the building to the south of the pond. Trayvon goes from the clubhouse to the walkway between Twin Trees and Retreat View Circle. At the end of the walkway after a right curve is the house he is going to. Not only does Trayvon have a 10-15 yard headstart down the walkway, Zimm is still in his car at the time the pursuit starts. You tell me how the fight ends up where it ends up after 3 1/2 minutes. It only takes 1 minute to run from the spot where Trayvon dies to his house. Zimm is at the south end T junction of the walkway the whole time until the fight which ends 10 yards away at the building directly to the northeast of the T junction where Trayvon dies.

Exactly what Trust asks, there is no other way he could have died where he died. Trayvon has to have turned around to confront Zimm. If Trayvon had kept going to his house, he would have died near it. There's a 3 1/2 minute gap before the fight starts to run a 1 minute distance. Even if Trayvon walked back to his house, he would have been there in less than 3 minutes. It's a straight line and he knows where Zimm is. You can goto www.wagist.com to see another view (They just rotate the map 180 degrees), plus there are even pictures of said walkway. The maps prove that there is no way Trayvon kept going to his house and the maps almost prove that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. You also have to explain this gap in time. Zimm is waiting for the police and the fight happens next to the spot he is waiting at, who show up I believe 4 minutes later.

The wagist map shows a very small portion of the overall area. Look at the map, look at where GZ's house is, look at the unfenced shortcut into community, none of what you say makes sense. Where is a "right curve" near house he is going to?

Did you look at the link I put up, or is your info from wagist? Click on blue aeros and follow along.

Charges will be announced tonight!

look at where GZ's house is, look at the unfenced shortcut into the community

Neither of which has anything to do with where the fight occurred, or where Zimmerman's truck was located.

Where is a "right curve" near house he is going to?

Zimmerman's vehicle is facing into a right curve, and the back side of the block (where Zimmerman walked to based on the wagist map) is just after a right curve.

GZ had to have gotten out of his vehicle a 2nd time to follow Trayvon

This is speculation, and hasn't been suggested anywhere. The only thing it could be used to speculate is to 'eat up' the time that is otherwise attributed to Trayvon turning around to confront Zimmerman.

Charges will be announced tonight!

That was leaked information that I expect someone will lose their job over. If you remember correctly, the prosecutor stated that nothing else would come from her office until she herself held a press conference to announce whether charges would be filed or not. She also stated she would give the press a 3 hour notice to when that conference would be.

Zimmerman's vehicle is facing into a right curve, and the back side of the block (where Zimmerman walked to based on the wagist map) is just after a right curve.

Who provided the placement of GZ's vehicle?

All speculation...one way or the other...

We can see the actual route when he goes to court.

It seems a press conference is being held at 6pm, and it was said around 3pm, that's about 3 hours.

Jo-An-4354969

Against my better judgement,

Ok try this again... maybe I am using the wrong words...... Not easy to describe without North South East and West directions and the map is using the main entrance as the bottom. but I think that is actually on the West side not the South.. Anyhow....

George FIRST sees Trayvon at or near the mailboxes by the clubhouse. Trayvon could have gotten there through either the shortcut or the main entrance. I am looking at the 4th slide in your link @nytimes. What I don't know is where George is at that specific instance. A guess would be he drove in the main entrance and saw Trayvon taking shelter from the rain under the eves of the clubhouse. George pulls through main entrance passing mailboxes on his right and follows the road left and pulls a U turn at the next corner. Alternatively he turns right just inside the entrance pulls past his house and comes back around and stops at that turn in Twin Trees and stops as depicted in the slides.. just short of the walkway that cuts through. That would work in your description of Trayvon having taken the shortcut. George would see Trayvon somewhere along Retreat View Circle walking toward the main entrance and clubhouse. Either way Trayvon is at the clubhouse and George ends up between Trayvon and "home" just short of the first cut through. For Trayvon to proceed he has to walk towards George... (george does say he is coming towards him would be explained by that) Trayvon would walk almost directly where the words "Cut Throughs" are on slide 6. He would proceed from there to the T in the walkway and turn right heading home. Once past George is where I presume he started to walk fast or run. He would quickly disappear once he turned right at the T. The question is how far did George get when he followed Trayvon once he disappeared. When did he turn back? We don't have that information. We could guess that George could potentially cover 300 feet in 20 seconds?(average high schooler can do it in 11 sec) That might get him as far as the second cut through? Of course George could have decided to run down to the 2nd cut through to cut Trayvon off presuming he was headed to the back gate? Then walked back on the walkway toward the T intending to get back to his truck that way. (Honestly that is what I might do if I wanted to keep an eye on things) So that sets up both scenarios: Trayvon slipped into a backyard or George got ahead of him.... What we don't have is any details on the seconds between the exchange of words and exchange of blows. We have George saying Trayvon approached from his back and left... Two people walking past each other could end up like that just as easy as Trayvon stepping out of the shadows.

As the joke/saying goes film at 11 or in this case AG has an announcement at 6:00. NBC is guessing charges. I will watch/listen to what the AG has to say.

Who provided the placement of GZ's vehicle?

I was assuming it was known, since it was on at least one map that I've seen- but I can't seem to find any other map that shows where his vehicle was, or anything about where his vehicle was located. However, from the 911 call, Zimmerman's directions to where his truck is: (please feel free to verify-)

Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left [onto Twin Trees Lane], and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck... [unintelligible]

Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.

That seems to corroborate the location circled on the wagist map.

The map is upside down in N/S orientation.

I presume GZ was coming or going, from or to, his home, in the upper right hand corner of this map, so I don't see how or why he ends up past mailboxes. I think it's more likely that GZ first spots and watches Trayvon between the shortcut entrance and clubhouse. BUT we don't know!

So, I will have my opinion, and you can have yours,

I am just glad there are charges being filed.

Zimm's vehicle is parked next to the first cutthrough, it's that block thing on your last 3 NYT slides. That is where the police found the truck too. Zimm drove from the mailboxes to that spot when he got out. There is the right curve. Trayvon went through that cutthrough, as did Zimm. At that cutthrough T junction is where Zimm stands around. My info is from the NYT site and from Wagist. Both sites have info the other doesn't.

The Wagist map concentrates on the area because Zimm first spots Trayvon at the clubhouses (I think this is in the call.), so it doesn't matter too much before that. Jo, you are correct to ask if it really is the first time Zimm sees Trayvon.

Finally found what's been hidden and buried since the big outcry...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g4yF3Xu-wg

Jo-An-4354969

The map is upside down in N/S orientation.

I presume GZ was coming or going, from or to, his home, in the upper right hand corner of this map, so I don't see how or why he ends up past mailboxes. I think it's more likely that GZ first spots and watches Trayvon between the shortcut entrance and clubhouse. BUT we don't know!

Can we agree that George SAW Trayvon at the clubhouse? His truck was parked at the pass through while he was on the phone with dispatch? I can come up with 3 ways he gets there but I think we agree what matters is where the truck is in relation to the beginning of the call and where Trayvon is at that moment?

So, I will have my opinion, and you can have yours,

Agreed

I am just glad there are charges being filed.

We will see in 15 to 60 minutes... they are rarely on time and may draw it out...

We will see in 15 to 60 minutes... they are rarely on time and may draw it out...

I caught the tail end of the Prosecutor news conference, and most of the Al Sharpton one... I'll have to go watch hers again because literally it was less than 3 minutes I saw...

I think it's funny that Al Sharpton stated they wouldn't have settled for it if they had decided it was self defense. It goes to show that they aren't so much concerned about the law as written, but how they want it to be.

Now they've got a long uphill battle to convict him- we'll see, as Florida will publicly try him. Hopefully there is more evidence that wasn't released that will convict him- otherwise he'll walk.

All this talk about who was pursuing who, and who may have doubled back is inmaterial.

If Trayvon Martin took it in his head to turn back and confront George Zimmerman, it seems highly unlikely that Mr. Zimmerman would not have seen the teen approaching, and could have displayed his weapon well in advance of any actual altercation. Trayvon Martin may have been a choir boy, a juvenile delinquent, or anything in between. But unless he was an out and out psycho, I cannot imagine he would continue to approach a man holding a gun.

On the basis of the known facts, the charges appear justified. I hope for a fair and speedy trial, and I'll await the unveiling of the facts and analysis in court, rather than depend on the word of mouth "facts" being traded here.

dman-353357

could have displayed his weapon well in advance of any actual altercation.

I cannot imagine he would continue to approach a man holding a gun.

WHAT are you attempting to imply? If he had shown the weapon you are marking Trayvon as crazy and George would be guilty of brandishing a weapon, 3 years mandatory jail time. Spit it out dman.

Because the state of FL is F*ed-UP!

Boycott Florida!

Let's see how they get along without tourists.

A grand jury would only add more suspicion since all evidence and testimony is not released to the public other than by second hand reporting. This case has already had too much speculation and it's a lose-lose situation for the prosecutor. If the grand jury indicts, some people will say that Zimmerman was railroaded for political purposes. If they choose to not indict, then they would be be accused of suppressing information for some kind of conspiracy or cover-up.

Going with a regular jury eliminates that and releases all evidence and testimony to the public record and then the chips will fall where they may.

A boycott would have saved the two British tourists that were killed.

I hope you are right on this. I think that Zimmerman needs to stand trial and I hope that happens.

ProudTParty is just one of the many reasons I'd like to boycott Florida. I live in this God-forsaken Hell Hole and I can't get out! If I knew then what I know now, I would have moved to anywhere but here. I came for the gorgeous beaches and emerald waters of the Gulf of Mexico. Indeed, if not for that one attribute and the fact that I bought a beach home, I would be packing sand and moving on. The people are ignorant, especially the locals, the environment toxic and destructive, and this place is full of gun-totin' Bible thumpers who do nothing but bump their gums inbetween downing bottles of anything labeled "alcohol." They don't love their neighbor, they hate all of their neighbors. I thought my home state of Alabama was bad, I thought South Carolina was bad, I thought Texas was bad, I thought Illnois had the worst weather in the world. I should have gone back to the best place I've ever live, Virginia, but I can't because they've digressed to submitting to Republican Rule, and we KNOW how "invasive" that rule can be. As to the article, the prosecutor can go before a judge or special prosecutor, she doesn't have to call a Grand Jury, so it's not over. . .yet, that is. R.I.P. Trayvon Martin and may Lady Justice prevail.

PointingouttheObvious stay away. One act by two idiots in a state with over 18 million residents does not speak for the entire state of Florida except for morons like you.

Always refreshing to see Tea Baggers like ProudTParty and his/her 17 endorsers openly embrace the racism that most of them try to hide from the mainstream.

ProudTParty

Then they can go to your community and you can house and feed them!

gojo-1251069 ...(#2.4).."A boycott would have saved the two British tourists that were killed."

Really ??....They were killed by a Black 17 year old thug....now he's a 17 yr.old convicted of 1st.degree MURDER......take a look at his picture...he looks like such a nice boy....

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/nation/fla-teen-guilty-of-murdering-2-british-tourists-2267785.html

asknreceive, do you think since all these states are no good, maybe its you not the states that is the problem?

notsosmart

PointingouttheObvious stay away. One act by two idiots in a state with over 18 million residents does not speak for the entire state of Florida except for morons like you.

There's no denying certain facts. Florida can't seem to get anything right lately. Thus calling someone a moron for stating the obvious, is rather childish. Just keeps adding to the plight of the incompetent state of Florida. Keep it up.....

LOL! Nope, and if you neither hail from one of these states nor have lived in one of these state, you don't have a clue. Virginia was a wonderful place to live. Too bad it's gone the w(R)ong way.

It always strikes me a funny how people are surprised by the fact that there are so many rednecks in Florida! Before you move here, I would suggest that you take a moment and look on a map and you will see that Florida is part of the SOUTH! Other than the coastal communities, once you get about 30 miles inland, you might as well be in Georgia or Alabama. We apreciate our visitors from all ober the Country, But if your going to move down here, I would remind you of one of my favorite sayings. We dont give a damn how you do it up north!

the reason they dont want a grand jury is because they are not sure they can find an impartial one at this point thanks to all the media attention, so rather than give the defense ammunition they are letting a judge decided weather or not there is sufficient evidence to proceed, that way if and when the charge comes it will have more legitimacy.

jackofspade

so rather than give the defense ammunition they are letting a judge decided weather or not there is sufficient evidence to proceed, that way if and when the charge comes it will have more legitimacy.

The problem is that the entire Florida judicial system is in question. You want to project a non-biased evaluation of the evidence and decide based on the available facts, bring in an out of state invetigator. Take the entire matter out of the hands of the Florida judicial system; the you lend some credence to the entire process. Since there's doubt that Florida can act impartially on this matter, any decision within Florida's system will be questioned. That's why the FBI and Federal investigations will prove more objective that anything done in Florida.

Sorry Floridians, but your state has dug itself such a deep hole (I think it started when you all elected an incompetent for your governor -- Last name of Bush!) that it's going to take quite some time to get out of it. No matter what excuses or emotional rant you come up with to defend Florida, the facts are the facts.....

Far, far more racism from the left than right. Are there racists in the T-Party? A few, a small minority, just as there are in every segment of society. Conservative Republicans are not racist. We believe anyone and everyone regardless of race is capable of achieving whatever level of financial security they chose by their own ambition. Unfortunately it is the liberal democrats who have instilled in many minorities that they are incapable of doing so on their own, that they need the governments help to achieve the American Dream. No it is the Liberal Democrats who are the plantation owners now.

Arieus, your spewing racial hatred is despicable. Saying "black people will find justice their way" is an abuse of free speech and you should be identified and watched as a militant. Justice blind to color needs to find its way to you. May you rot in hell for comments such as yours.

Arieus- You are not helping.

Yeah Jack and when you from the north get done spending your 2 weeks on a large sandbar here. Please don't tells us how to run the entire state. As we say if you love NY take I 40 east. A Texan. No Arieus will not be watched the DOJ is too busy watching old retired white men who don't want to pay taxes or get drivers licences. Which now makes you a "hate" group.

I sure wish that MSNBC, CNN, etc. would use current photo's of Trayvon and Martin. These cutesy photo's are only shown to provide sympathy.

I await with 'baited breath' for all evidence to be shown and a court date is set.

If the police, investigators and prosecutors had evidence, they would have arrested Zimmerman by now, it's not like this happened last week. They have had plenty of time to go over the facts of the case. What the officials in Fla are trying to do is avoid another Rodney King situation in their jurisdiction and they will present this information to Trayvon's family and then let the public know they don't have enough to charge him.

I realize this young man is gone, but all the arrests in the world aren't going to change that. The only thing it will do is inflame an already hot situation and then this guy will get off anyway for lack of proof. This is a lose-lose situation for this city I'm afraid.

@Yo-Ho

Thank You for clearly communicating the racism inherent in the Tea "NAZI" Party. This way there's no mistaking what the Tea Party is all about.

So I'm just going to assume you believe Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon right? Since he was a black teenager in a hoodie he must have been guilty using your logic correct? After all if one persons actions or statements can be used to demonize a whole group then surely all of the black gang-bangers out there are representative of every single black teenager walking the streets at night wearing a hoodie. That is the very same logic you just used to demonize everyone in the Tea party based on the ignorant statements of one person.

Or do you only apply your narrow-minded stereotyping and bigotry to those people you are predisposed to hate? Sometimes the hypocrisy coming from the left is mind boggling.

jackofspade

so rather than give the defense ammunition they are letting a judge decided weather or not there is sufficient evidence to proceed, that way if and when the charge comes it will have more legitimacy.

jackofspade,

Hopefully, this case will not be handed over to a friend and colleague of Zimmerman's father.

capecodmom

Arieus- You are not helping.

It's a comment/opinion. The black panthers are already calling for a race war, so has Al Sharpton, and I comment on it and now I'm the bad guy. Get effen real.

Think of it as a head-up warning for the white people of Florida. If there is a race war due to this injustice, then they all had better get prepared for what's coming.

The black people of Florida have already been deemed both Zimmerman and his dad as "Dead Men walking", and they even took out a bounty on Zimmerman's head.

Don't shoot the messenger (me) for reporting and talking about what's already been said and done by the black people of Florida.

Zimmerman is GUILTY. I don't care about how many people that want to look the other way and pretend this young lack man wasn't killed in cold blood. He was murdered by Zimmerman, and Zimmerman needs to be in jail.

It's the ignorance of the white people of Florida that have created the mess they are facing today.

Justice needs to be served, and so far, it's not being done because the kid was a black kid.

If it were a black man shooting and killing a white kid, he would be in jail within the hour of the shooting.

RIP Trayvon

Right on Leiya - I guess they need to have an "investigation" and fire someone too.

It's a comment/opinion. The black panthers are already calling for a race war, so has Al Sharpton, and I comment on it and now I'm the bad guy.

Who cares what a half dozen black supremacist racists say? They and white supremacist racists have been calling for race war for 60 years.

They ain't gonna do nothin'. Nathan!

If they don't charge Zimmerman anyone who steps out of line and gets violent will be the first ones to pay dearly via the Justice system. Look, you either let the system do it's thing or we devolve to lynch mobbery...and since the Black Panthers seem to want to lynch people, I find that decidely ironic.

Racists are morons from jump street, so who cares what they want?

If you want lower cost justice, justice with higher quality, and accountability of those who dispense it, try demonopolizing the service...because the state monopoly on it logically causes higher costs, lower quality, and no accountability because of the lack of competition for customers (the public at large).

All this chest beating and hoping for some race war is keyboard tough-guy nonsense.

You, and anybody else, ain't doin' jack. And for good reason...it's stupid to use violence. Haven't you learned anything from Henry David Thoreau, Gandhi, and MLKjr ? You do not win by combating violence with violence...you win by being nonviolent and civilly disobedient (break unjust laws nonviolently).

It never ceases to amaze me how many people, especially of color, haven't learned this lesson of the civil rights era.

Arieus:

The black people of Florida have already been deemed both Zimmerman and his dad as "Dead Men walking", and they even took out a bounty on Zimmerman's head.

No, only a small subset of them, black-supremacists with the motto of "kill whitey," have done that.

Zimmerman is GUILTY. I don't care about how many people that want to look the other way and pretend this young lack man wasn't killed in cold blood. He was murdered by Zimmerman, and Zimmerman needs to be in jail.

A lot of rhetoric and no facts. Something you should understand -- Capecodmom wants Zimmerman's head just as much as you do. She just thinks that you're making that position look bad. She means you're not helping the people who want Zimmerman's head.

Simple Answer People:

The Grand Jury is ONLY used in a First Degree Murder Indictment; which this case could NEVER be charges for. At the MOST it would be Second degree or Manslaughter! Trying using your heads STUPID PEOPLE, its not a conspiracy, they just don't OWE YOU an explanation every time you have a difference of opinion!

I realize that this might come as a shock to some people but the US laws guarantee due process. Sucks I know, the authorities won't let us take this guy out back, string him up for a good old fashion hanging. I always felt the lynch mob court of justice was the preferred method of dealing with these things, after all the news is saying he's guilty and we all just KNOW he's guilty, so no need for the bother of a trial or some fancy evidence. Just string em up and watch em twitch, put it on national TV to show how justice is done!

/sarcasm off

Spoiled American's who have never left the USA or spent time in a foreign country with a slightly different concept of "due process" don't know how good they got it. I'm an American expat living in South Korea, and over here their is no jury, just the judge, the prosecutor and your defense lawyer. Both the Judge and prosecutor work for the Korean Government, the defense lawyers often recommend pleading guilty with a tearful statement of how sorry you are and hope for a lessened sentence, even if your innocent. Korean courts have a conviction rate of 99.99%, almost all due to confessions (some forced) and pleading guilty. Korean Judges get promoted based on how many convictions they have, acquitting someone makes the Police, the Government and the Judge look bad.

Of course after the conviction you get to make an appeal, and the appeal's court is usually more generous and actually interested in whether your innocent or not. Most convictions get turned over or a reduced sentence on appeal.

So yeah, those of you crying on why their not arresting him and throwing him into jail for life don't know what your talking about.

True story (I'll provide link if someone wants). American man and his Korean wife on a subway in Seoul heading home. Man grabs his wife's butt. Older drunk Korean man gets into American's face and starts screaming at how badly he's treating "good Korean women". Korean women says that he's her husband and it's fine. Older Korean man tells her to shut up, that she's a whore and proceeds to hit and beat on American man. American man knock's Korean man down, all the nearby Korean men jump on American man and beat him up breaking several ribs, all while the Korean wife is screaming at them to leave her husband alone. Camera's in the subway record the ENTIRE thing.

Now I rational person would think the Korean man will be tried for assault, but no. The Korean prosecutions office charged the American man with both assault and sexual assault. The Korean judge convicted him of both and sentenced him to jail time. The appeals court overturned it.

Now do you want that kind of justice system in the USA? Where your tried in the courts of public opinion and the Judge renders verdict based on saving face and public desires? Otherwise kindly STFU and let the system work. It might not be perfect, but good god it's better then the alternative.

@Ken Trout

Simple Answer People:

The Grand Jury is ONLY used in a First Degree Murder Indictment; which this case could NEVER be charges for. At the MOST it would be Second degree or Manslaughter! Trying using your heads STUPID PEOPLE, its not a conspiracy, they just don't OWE YOU an explanation every time you have a difference of opinion!

Ummm, not exactly Ken. You should really check your facts before you call other people stupid. You must have a grand jury indictment before you can charge someone with first degree murder (in Florida) but a grand jury can also be convened to indite someone on a lesser charge. They are not used "ONLY" in a case involving first degree murder.

I hope you mean Trayvon was defending himself from the unauthorized thug with the gun who confronted him for no reason.

No Jeff, It's ok to kill someone that is trying to beat the crap out of you and may cause death or permanent damage. You can stand your ground when your life is in danger...

Citizen911

No Jeff, It's ok to kill someone that is trying to beat the crap out of you and may cause death or permanent damage. You can stand your ground when your life is in danger...

Ok then in your opinion its ok to Ignore the real police and follow a suspisous person when the TOLD you not to?

EWUSNRET,

Zimmerman, with a 9mm gun in his hand, presues an unarmed man, one with a bag of skittles in his hand, and you say he was protecting himself from a thug? How do you even remotely interpret it that way?

I'm willing to bet Martin was thug and a troublemaker AND that Zimmerman had no real need or reason to shoot him other than maybe cowardice but, I wasn't there so I don't really know.

I think it's a teribble situation with a whole bunch of people, who have no idea what went on ,with there noses in it.

Seems to me, most people just pick who they want to be right and then stick with it without really knowing what happened that night.

Jeff-1541632...(#3.2)....Your first statement :

"so in your sick opinion its ok to shoot a unarmed teen with a gun".....You must be a Mindreader

The second half of your first statement " with a gun you were not supose to have on your job"....Is just plain WRONG....Zimmerman was in his car returning from the store when he first saw Martin...He wasn't ON HIS JOB.

Your Last statement " also i guess you think every black teen is a thug that needs to be killed?".....Is just plain absurd....How anyone would come to that conclusion from EWUSNRET's post is beyond reasonable.

Jeff - No coward here. I will stand my ground. It's ok to kill anyone that's trying to harm you.

Jeff

Have you bothered to go out and read the TRUE transcript of the 911 call? Mr. Zimmerman stopped following Trayvon when he was told that he didn't need to. He was walking back to his vehicle and still talking to the 911 operator before the call ended. It was after that there was the confrontation. Two people know exactly what happened. One is dead and the other told his story to the police. The story was backed up with witnesses.

Your assisne question,"you think every black teen is a thug that needs to be killed", is racist and there is no need for that kind of language. You just stir hatred.

Darla - You are spreading lies. Go read the 911 transcript. He did not keep pursuing Trayvon. You've been watching that horses ass Mr. Ed too much. He ia a liar who ran the altered 911 tape over and over.

Jeff-1541632, "Ok then in your opinion its ok to Ignore the real police and follow a suspicious person when the TOLD you not to?"

If you listen to the UNEDITED 911 transcript, Zimmerman obeyed the 911 operator and stopped following and went to his car. That is when a witness saw the THUG attack Zimmerman, beating him, slamming his head into the ground and cutting the back of his head. Zimmerman should be free...

So then it is okay to stalk someone on the street... approach them and trigger an episode and kill them when there was no just cause for that action? Z was told by police to stand down... should not have had a weapon. If a guy was stalking you, got in your face, and you saw a gun.... would that not make you spring into action? And people are worried about the scratch on Z's head? Give me a break. This case will blow all these issues out of the water for us all to see.

Citizen911

Jeff-1541632, "Ok then in your opinion its ok to Ignore the real police and follow a suspicious person when the TOLD you not to?"

If you listen to the UNEDITED 911 transcript, Zimmerman obeyed the 911 operator and stopped following and went to his car. That is when a witness saw the THUG attack Zimmerman, beating him, slamming his head into the ground and cutting the back of his head. Zimmerman should be free...

he called 911 from his car, so if he would have LISTIONED TO POLICE and not got of of the car none of this would have happened.

Where do you people get your information?...If it's from reading the articles then you have serious issues with comprehension, or you just like to make the $hit up.

Zimmerman did not have his gun in hand, and a 911 dispatcher is not an officer of the law, they do not have any authority to tell anyone to follow or not to follow someone.

Now that there will be no grand jury, this case will finally fade away and be the "non story" that it should have remained in the first place.

Zimmerman has an eye witness that Martin was on top of him beating him, and the police noted the injuries in their report. Zimmerman had every right under Florida law to shoot him.

I hope this case puts the thought into the heads of all the "Martins" out there, that whoever you may be attacking may have a gun.

And I really dont give a rats a$$ what color either one of them were or are, moral of the story is dont attack anyone and you stay alive.

Good news. Stand your ground! No evidence. He was defending himself from the thug.

And was killed for it.

Mike 464493 - Thanks for the insight. Hope you're right.

Somethings not right here. If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, why was Trayvon screaming for help? Forensic audio experts determined that the cries for help were not coming from Zimmerman. Zimmernman claimed it was him, but the evidence doesn't back that up. So it sounds to me that somebody lied. It sure wasn't a dead person. And if somebody lied about one thing he loses all credibility. As for the witnesses, it was dark and raining so they probably really couldn't tell who was on top of whom, in someone backyard, nowhere near Zimmerman's vehicle. I mean, people want to stick with the facts, right? Why is noone discussing the fact that the cries for help didn't come from Zimmerman? I also notice the media is keeping pretty quiet about that fact too. But I also noticed Zimmerman's supporters are no longer claiming it was him crying for help, which I think is pretty wise since the forensic evidence doesn't back that up.

he was a thug because he was black and was wearing a hoodie! come on ppl!

@Citizen911
No Jeff, It's ok to kill someone that is trying to beat the crap out of you and may cause death or permanent damage. You can stand your ground when your life is in danger...

I heard an attorney speaking on the "Stand Your Ground" law as it pertains to George Zimmerman, who as we all know has claimed he "feared [his] life was in danger." The crux of his statement is that Zimmerman, who clearly approached Treyvon first, despite recommendation of the 911 dispatcher, starting the altercation, can NOT then claim that he feared for his life. The law isn't set up that way. Whether Treyvon than attacked him is irrelevant. Zimmerman started it!

I personally want to see this go to some kind of trial, so we'll get the real facts of the case once and for all. If Zimmerman is telling the truth about everything, it may even be in his best interest too. He'll never be able to clear his reputation with all this hanging over his head.

Stand your ground works for both sides. If it is true that Martin came up behind Zimmerman, and thus pursued him after he knew he was being followed, why didn't Martin go to his father's girlfriend's condo and call the police from there? So Zimmerman pursued, but called authorities. He is legally allowed to carry a gun. The dispatcher can make suggestions about not following so that he/she limits her responsibility. The problem is asking Zimmerman to go home also kills the lead. So if Martin was really dangerous, which I do not think he was, then that lead goes cold unless somebody at least follows from a distance.

Zimmerman's dad said that Martin came up behind Zimmerman and asked him if he had a problem? Supposedly Zimmerman said NO and then Martin said "you do now". Think about this for a minute. If Martin did pursue Zimmerman because he was angry about being followed, he must have intended to duke it out with Zimmerman because words failed him. So Martin took great risk, typically of teenagers, to pursue Zimmerman not knowing who he was and if he carried a gun. Not smart, but typical teenager that has lots of testosterone at that age. Plus Martin was much bigger and maybe thought he could take Zimmerman on.

Is Zimmerman a nosy guy? Some would yes, some would be grateful for his eyes. I have a neighbor just like this guy. He has appointed himself cop in this rural area. He is annoying and has frankly caused a lot of unnecessary angst, but again some are grateful.

This entire case should have been handled much differently. Just wanted to point this out. Many years ago, I hit a man on a bike with my truck. He was seriously injured and normally according to the police I would have been cited for turning left against traffic and thus hitting this man on his motorbike. However, I had a witness. Without that witness I was guilty. Believe me that sheriff made if very clear to me that having that witness changed my life. If Zimmerman has a witness that person may change his life as well.

Goto www.wagist.com for all the latest info, includes all the phone calls, videos, eyewitness info, overhead maps, and timestamping. See for yourself. The truth is Trayvon doubled back and initiated the confrontation. He was already at his house or next to it, and Zimm was already on his way back to his car. Trayvon started out trying to avoid the fight, but ended up looking for one after the situation had already defused. Anyone who doesn't think this was self defense, simply doesn't have the facts.

As for Trayvon, did you see his facebook and twitter account? They've since been taken down, but you can still google it, because it's all bad news for his credibility.

He may just be a kid, but cmon, get real. He was a gangsta thug wannabe. Tattoos taking up half of both arms, often pictured in wife beaters, he was the local pot dealer, likes to wear his gold plated grill, talking with his buddies about knocking up some ho's, his friends joking with him when he punched out some bus driver. Oh sure, I know plenty of 17 year olds like this. Maybe one or two of these, and you can say a kid being a kid, but this as the complete package? Trayvon was a timebomb. And of course, he was suspended from school yet again, which was why his father took him to his girlfriend's house in this gated community to begin with. Ironic that Trayvon couldn't be trusted to stay home and not get into trouble.

.. No coward here. I will stand my ground. It's ok to kill anyone that's trying to harm you.

Wouldn't it be more ok to, you know, shoot him in the leg or something? You know, to prevent him from continuing to "harm you" after you chased them down? Are you seriously not joking? As flawed as our legal system is, there IS a reason we have prisons, etc. It's because we hold humane beliefs that someone should be tried, punished and in most cases, given the chance at rehabilitation (aside from the rare death sentence, which of course comes after a trial and whatnot). You don't get to go chasing people down then murdering them when they decide "F*ck that" and attack you for it.

If he was being beaten and had a gun, which is the case, it would have been extremely efficient to shoot him somewhere non-lethal to get out of harms way. He's an American but he's not Judge and Jury. He doesn't get to decide that he deserves to die for beating him. In Zimmermans case, perhaps that's what he intended to do but being punched and whatnot in the heat of the moment wasn't able to be so accurate. I don't know, I wasn't there. But YOU are specifically saying it's ok to KILL in that situation. Sorry but that's not how it works here in America. (Just ask any of the abused women in our prisons for killing their abuser. )

There has too much publicity for this case to be swept under the rug in order to protect Zimmerman just because his father had been a judge.

What evidence, other than Zimmerman being a different race than Travon, makes this a racial crime?

With the DOJ involved, if there was ANYTHING to suggest that Zimmerman's story was different than what he initially told the police officers, there would have already been an arrest.

Zimmerman admitted he was following Travon to the dispatcher. The dispatcher told him NOT to follow Travon. Zimmerman told the 911 operator that he had lost sight of him so he couldn't follow him. At that time, Zimmerman told the dispatcher where he would meet the officers. Where is the evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Travon and confront him?

These are the things the officers, prosecutor, the DOJ were all looking at. As tragic and senseless as Travon's death may be, is it in the realm of possibility that Zimmerman was telling the truth?

Ok first of all Z was not working. Neighborhood watch is not a job. Second, all of you keep talking about evidence on both sides of this case. So are all of you part of the case? Are all of you investigating this case? If not then you don't know what the evidence is. They do not release evidence to the public while a case is under investigation. All of you are spouting things you have heard or read in the news. How about we let the legal system take care of this. We have three different groups looking into this. I don't think Z's former judge father can help him will all three of them. Let them do their jobs so we can find out the truth.

msfruhauf...(#3.28)...."If he was being beaten and had a gun, which is the case, it would have been extremely efficient to shoot him somewhere non-lethal to get out of harms way."

If this Trayvon was on top of you (instead of Zimmerman) and was Raping you ( Instead of beating on Zimmerman)......and you got to your gun....would you have tried be extremely efficient and shoot him somewhere non-lethal ???.....I think not...You would have shot him in his chest because that is the only place you could point your gun (or maybe in the forehead ).....not a reach around to shoot him in the leg......Scheeesh....

"it's ok to kill someone who is trying to harm you"

Really?

Does that mean that I can kill/shoot a teenager for throwing a rock at me?

What about a 7 year old that kicks me in the shins? Can I at least slap them to the ground(as I "stand my ground")?

This isn't the 18th or 19th century anymore.

Those of you with grand delusions of "killing anyone who messes with me", like a wild west outlaw, are full of yourselves.

The only story we can hear, is coming from the shooter(who has a retired judge father with connections).

We can't hear Trayvon's side of it, because he is dead.

It still puzzles me that a 17 year old kid, 6 ft tall and around 140-150 pounds, could toss around a twenty something year old man who out weighs him by at least 60 pounds.

At 5'9" and 200 pounds, no 17 year old weighing less than 170 would make me fear for my life(unless they were better armed than I was.)

Do you believe that Zimmerman was really that much of a weakling, he couldn't defend his life from an unarmed teen?

He brought the gun with him, because he was hoping or looking for a reason to use it.

American Lobo

"it's ok to kill someone who is trying to harm you"

YUP !!......All "Stand Your Ground"...without the former "Duty to Retreat" means for me is that I don't have to try to prove that I tried to put my Hover-Round in REVERSE before I let the air out of someone attempting to do me harm......and that the relatives can't make me spend a whole lot of money on a Lawyer to defend myself against a Civil Lawsuit.....

So according to the Zimmerman fans here...it is ok to pursue someone with a gun, and then when they try to defend themselves and perhaps get a few licks in, it is then ok to shoot them. So glad you guys cleared that up.

Martin had a right to defend himself from the original aggressor, and that was Zimmerman. There is no way that Zimmerman was in the right because he violated all the regulations a community agrees to when they sign up to be Neighborhood Watch communities. The police Neighborhood Watch trainer specifically told Zimmerman and all his neighbors who attended the Neighborhood Watch meeting that if they went outside the regulations, i.e. patrolling, carrying a weapon, pursuing a person, they could be criminally charged for anything that took place. Neighborhood Watch is very clear that a non-police citizen has no authority to pursue, apprehend or use a weapon against someone. Just because Zimmerman had a conceal carry permit does not give him the authority to act like a police officer and Neighborhood Watch forbids the activities Zimmerman undertook. The "Stand Your Ground" law does not give one authority to act as police, only to defend yourself if you find yourself in a situation where trouble is brought to you; not when you go looking for it. Zimmerman did not kill Martin while Martin was committing a crime or doing anything more than walking on a public sidewalk. When the legislator who wrote the law said it was not intended to cover Zimmerman's actions then it sounds like it was being applied way too broadly when a decision was made to not charge Zimmerman that night. Nonetheless, not putting the case before a grand jury in no way means that the prosecution will not bring charges against Zimmerman. They may not be ready as of yet to present a case or they may be using other means to bring charges. The main point being made by those who have been protesting was that an investigation be continued and that the possibility of the Stand Your Ground law was being utilized too broadly and a court was the better place to determine if self defense was appropriate. I don’t think that is too much to ask.

Although there are some very big questions, NONE of us have all the evidence. It would seem rather stupid for a young kid to do what is described above, but not completely unlikely. Trayvon doesn't seem like he was a stupid kid.
I would be more inclined to think he wasn't sure what home was his Dad's girlfriend's since they all looked exactly alike...hence acting suspicious.
I too have listened to all the 911 recordings, and I heard Zimmerman shut his phone as soon as the operator warned him that the police were on their way and not to follow Martin. Before he shut the connection, you could hear him moving pretty quickly.
I have heard three different statements from Zimmerman and his family. The latest one has Zimmerman minding his own business and walking back to his car...the statement of Martin's girlfriend disputes this completely, since she said she heard Martin say, "Someone is following me..." and her response for him to run back to his father's girlfriend's place. Martin's response was that he was not going to run.
As more and more comes out, Zimmerman's innocence comes more into question. One statement Zimmerman made was that Martin was attempting to grab Zimmerman's gun, though how Martin knew about Zimmerman's gun if Zimmerman didn't have it out, is beyond me...

Bottom line; if Zimmerman is innocent, then a proper investigation needs to be conducted. If He is not...the trial will exonerate him. As long as it is a public trial.

There are too many arm-chair quarterbacks out there. It is safe to say that this was not a racially motivated issue since the 911 operator was the one who asked the race of the individual when Zimmerman called in.

Zimmerman would have shot him if he was dalmatian. My opinion.

laura-417908....(#3.34)...Why would Zimmerman go out of his way to start a fight with Martin when he was the only one that knew the Police were only a few minutes away ???...

That sidewalk comes from the street along the side of one of the buildings, makes a right curve and continues down the middle between the backyard areas of two buildings....that's where he lost sight of Martin....that's where he was walking back from.....to show the cops when they got there.

Military Man-1740371...(#3.37)....That certainly isn't the 911 call I listened to....He talks to the dispatcher for at least 45 seconds after the dispatch says "We don't need you to do that"....then they discuss Zimmerman meeting the Officers on the way there....

As far as the gun....Zimmerman had a jacket on....that would conceal a holstered gun....if, during the initial struggled his unzipped jacket opened...the gun might be visible....You want to make it sound as if he had already drawn it from the holster....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6aVwPqXc-bk

If a teenager is throwing rocks at you 8( you can shoot him as did a border agent when a teen was hurling rocks at him from across the border... He feared for his life & did what he had to do. I think a lot of you do not realize that it doesn't take much to kill someone.

In the heat of being assaulted with a pop to the nose and someone slamming my head against the concrete I would do exactly the same thing that Zimmerman did.

I would pull out my gun and fire.

Megumi:

Somethings not right here. If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, why was Trayvon screaming for help?

He wasn't. Zimmerman was. The experts just knew where their bread was buttered. They used a staticky recording and compared a distress scream to a baseline non-distress shout. I'm surprised they got a 45% match on the same person. That "we need 90%" is just a bunch of baloney.

Why is noone discussing the fact that the cries for help didn't come from Zimmerman? I also notice the media is keeping pretty quiet about that fact too.

The media have been stirring the pot and calling for Zimmerman's head. If it were as clear as you seem to think that those cries were not Zimmerman's, they would be all over it. They're not. That should tell you something. It tells me the claim that it was not Zimmerman screaming for help won't hold up.

Laura:

So according to the Zimmerman fans here...it is ok to pursue someone with a gun, and then when they try to defend themselves and perhaps get a few licks in, it is then ok to shoot them. So glad you guys cleared that up.

No, but thanks for the strawman. I don't think that anyone is truly a "fan" of Zimmerman. It's just that some of us recognize that he had a right to defend himself. Zimmerman followed at a distance. Some people who want his head change that to "pursued him with a gun." But it's just not true. Martin started the physical confrontation and so was not defending himself.

Martin was not the one stalking Zimmerman (it is on tape)....sorry, but facts are facts.

royal - careful, he's armed and kills what he shoots.

Right.

I believe you're right, RecycledHope, and I also believe that the Stand Your Ground Law is going to go the way of the round file in fairly short order. If it doesn't and if Zimmerman is exonerated in light of the failure of local authorities to do a full forensic investigation, I fear a sleeping bear will come roaring back from a brief nap. If those on this Newsvine can't comprehend why this particular case is important for everyone concerned, be they black, white, brown or whatever, then I'm afraid you're beyond help. Stop talking about race and starting thinking about the myriad of ways the Stand Your Ground law can be used and abused by wanna-be vigilantes, stalkers, psychopaths, sociopaths, people with an axe to grand in general, ex(s) of all kinds. . .it begs to be misunderstood and misinterpreted. I've read the law and it falls woefully short in terms of defining where, when and how it can be invoked. It's a recipe for disaster and one young unarmed man is dead because of it. If Zimmerman had never pursued Trayvon Martin, the child would still be alive. Zimmerman is a zealot and he is armed and dangerous. Copycats are going to love this one!

royal - careful, he's armed and kills what he shoots

Only if what he shoots is unarmed, screaming for his life.....

Now this is just my opinion, but I think if Treyvon was shot at close range there would be an exit wound. Also, if Zimmerman shot Trayvon while Treyvon was on top of him wouldn't Treyvon have collapsed on top of Zimmerman and gotten blood on the front of Zimmerman's shirt? There was no blood on the front of Zimmerman's shirt on the surveillance video. Gunshot wounds are messy and bloody, so you's think that when you're supposedly that close to somebody who you shot their blood and tissues would splatter on you some kind of way. The whole situation seems very odd and sad to me, and things that Zimmerman and his supporters are saying are not making sense to me.

George Zimmerman will be arrested, tried and convicted for 1st degree murder of an unarmed man. A hair follicle test will prove that he uses drugs and a psychological test will prove that he is mentally unstable.

The "Stand your Ground" law will be repealed. All of the sponsors of this heinous bill will soon learn that your products will not be purchased: ATT, Kraft Foods, State Farm, Walmart, and others.

Hopefully the Sandford police, the City manager, Robert Zimmerman, his wife, Lee and all others who participated in this cover-up will eventually go to jail. They participated in aiding a criminal and obstruction of justice.

We will continue to stay focused on the subject at hand which is: " George Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer".

The number of other killings in America is horrible but right now the focus is on Zimmerman. Once he is arrested and convicted, then we will move on to other things.

Trying to change the subject and muddy the waters will not work this time.

All of those right-wingers who are so interested in "Black on Black" crime, may I suggest that you do some grassroot efforts in your community to put a stop to it. You may find that people in your own right-wing camp are behind these murders as well. Why not? It fit your racist agenda.

Remember, the focus is on George Zimmerman!!!!!!

Asknreceive:

This is not an abuse of the "stand your ground" law. This is a case where the law protected someone from the police abusing the notion that self-defense is an "affirmative defense." The police wanted him convicted and thrown in jail. They already had Zimmerman as the shooter. That could be proven point blank. Any other evidence they might turn up could only help him to prove his affirmative defense (on their likely assumption that Zimmerman had to prove self-defense.) Then they found out that the burden of proof was back on the prosecution.

Prosecutor: Your investigation was sloppy

Police: Yeah, well, I guess Zimmerman won't be able to prove he was defending himself.

We can still show that he was the shooter.

Prosecutor: You idiots! We have to prove it wasn't self-defense.

Police: What?! We were sure this was a slam-dunk conviction.

Prosecutor: Well, now it's a slam-dunk acquittal.

MegumiHatake.....(#4.6)...." who you shot their blood and tissues would splatter on you"..

This is NOT --- CSI:Miami or a video game....The entrance wound from a 9mm is about 3/8 of an inch...blood does not splatter forward and even if it did it would have to find its way out of the hole in his shirt and hoodie. There would not be gobs of blood on Zimmerman. The force of the bullet would have sent Martin backwards and off of Zimmerman onto the grass, where they found him... he may have tried to get away after being shot and collapsed face first onto the lawn, right next to the sidewalk.

In some cases when a body is found....it takes the coroner to even find a bullet wound...especially if the bullet doesn't exit the body.....entrance wounds are very small.

the new black panthers are calling for a race war to kill crackers be aware folks dont get violent dont let the violence escalate but keep your camras/cell phones ready and record if you dont belive just google black panthers race war april 9th may the lord be with you dont let the actions of a few reflect on the majority

It means that Zimmerman will probly walk, and if he does, he had better move out of the country because somebody will be after him to take him out.

Ain't nobody doin' nothin'. He won't move and will be just fine. Anyone who does anything will get in trouble. Tell this keyboard toughguy threat stuff to Casey Anthony next time you see her at the grocery store like everybody else.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people cheer for lynch mobs when the color of the victim is reversed. I guess you don't care much for the law, right?

Sick.

I've observed that people seem to be throwing around the concept that blacks kill blacks everyday and that more blacks murder whites. Here's the thing. If the statistics that claim that blacks are more likely to be arrested and whites are,more than likely those blacks who've killed whites are already in jail. Possibly why this case is getting so much attention is the fact that this man was allowed to go home under all these questionable circumstances. The police dispatcher told Zimmerman to desist from following Trayton. He disobeyed. If he'd done what he was told to do, he should have just allowed to police to investigate him and question him. Simple.

Then again, I think we should all be careful of how we are quick to scream racism although it's almost likely that in this case it could be. The fact is, this could happen to anyone, and injustice should not be tolerated.

@Magum

And the fact that Zimmerman's face on the video of him at the police station didn't should any signs of blood. If you're nose is based in, you'll bleed; a lot! There should have been stains on his clothes. We need to look at every piece of evidence here, and as hard as this may be to take, lets remember that one is innocent until proven guilty

It's astounding how many Americans are willing to give up their right to a jury/judge trial. There are lots of posters here who believe that the police have the right to determine if Zimmerman was self-defending. No matter what happened and to whom... a person's life was taken and we, as Americans, should want to know what happened and then make an official verdict. Why are so many giving up this right? It's really unbelievable that their racism, belief in the cops, whatever it is makes so many so willing to give up a protection against the willy nilly decision making of the local police in matters of life and death. And even with protections there is none... like the case of a man was not in danger, because he was in his own home looking out the window, who while telling the police about two robbers in his neighbor's home ran out, against police instructions, and shot them in the back and killed them. He invoked the home is his castle rule... but no one was threatening him in his home. Why would any American think that was ok? I just do not get it.

The thing is had the child been stalking him and killed him he would be locked up. He followed this young man cornered him and killed him. If he was beat up like he said, he had a broken nose, blood was on the back of his head and all, why he was checked by the EMT's he was not taken to the er to be treated, instead he was taking downtown. The video of him getting out of the car showed no blood anywhere, so that story goes out the window

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It's astounding how many Americans are willing to give up their right to a jury/judge trial

I think you are missing something there. It is the right of DEFENDANT not the people to have a trial. To become a defendant there must be charges. To be charges there needs to be a violation of law. Currently Florida Law is on Georges side and no law appears to have been broken.

That's not what this means. It means the special prosecutor will decide whether or not to charge him instead of a grand jury. He will still likely be charged, and a jury will decide his guilt or innocence.

Behind closed doors. A grand jury has to keep records, a prosecutors decision making process does not have to be made public.

He was initially arrested but was not charged. It seems per Florida law that they have 174 from the arrest to charge the person, per a person who knows the law there, if I remember correctly. It also seems that if they do not charge him within that time then he can never be charged for the crime. Hope they are not running out the clock on this one.

Look at the case of that man in Texas who shot those 2 men in cold blood and no chargers were brought by the police even although he was not in any danger, was in his own house, had to leave said house to go outside to confront these men because they had robbed his neighbor's house carrying his shot gun. Listen to the 911 call and see if what this man did was not premeditated murder mascarading as stand your ground. That man should have been charged with murder but the grand jury decided that he had a right to go outside of this house to kill 2 men (robbers) who were running away from his neighbors house.

How many of these sort of cases have to happen before something is done about this law and the proliferation of guns in the hands of people who should not have any access to them yet are allowed to open or conceal carry?

Perhaps when it happens to your children or other relative that the law will change huh....

Have anyone noticed that the other person is always killed outright? Could it be because they do not want the victim to be able to tell their side of the story, so they shooter shoots to kill as opposed to wounding the person?

Peace.... think....

I'll take this one. I am not a gun supporter. However I do understand that when a person is defending himself or his home he would shoot to kill not wing him. My friend shot a guy coming in his window. Wounded him. The guy turned around and sued my friend even though it was obvious that he was indeed breaking and entering.

Let him walk and spend his life looking over his shoulder, knowing that what goes around comes around.

BZe1

How many of these sort of cases have to happen before something is done about this law and the proliferation of guns in the hands of people who should not have any access to them yet are allowed to open or conceal carry?

Any excuse to make you the one in control? Are you afraid the next person you bully just might have a way to equalize things? There ARE laws on the books. They were followed when George obtained his carry permit.

Who made you the one to decide who can or can't exercise their Rights?

@S Jr

Sorry to hear about your friend. That is what Florida SYG was written for. To prevent criminals from making a mint for being caught being criminals. The sad thing is that as word gets out that someone defending their home gets sued by the criminal leads to those defending their home to make sure the criminal is DEAD.

I am a resident of Texas and we have the laws as well. I am a ten year military veteran. half was as an infantryman trained to do nothing other than fire a weapon at humans. My training gives me an unfair advantage in that they completely desensitized and dissociated me from acts of violence as being a bad thing. The train us to kill without feelings getting in the way or remorse after the fact. Most of you civilians give a crap. I hope I never have to face one of you vigilantes. I have a couple of weapons and the right to carry as well. See there, Black people have pistols loaded with Black Talon hollow points too. We hunt rabbits too. White people with guns used to be something to fear. Now its the other way around. You used to be the biggest bigots and racist, not any more. We have learned how to hate from you and some of us are athiest that don't even have a God to answer to for our actions.

Be careful how brave, or stupid you are in light of this new breed of black person. Not afraid of the police, you, or your God. We may do you in if your kids don't get to you first.

That's the thing Kevin normal good citizens don't go around looking for fights or altercations of any kind.

Hell that crap only happened in High School for the most part 8) and the instigator was more than likely a tough guy who always caused trouble and will eventually either die or go to prison.

Ohh and Kevin I am white who married a Mexican and have friends that are black 8) Racism is @!$%#ing lame as hell judging someone by the color of there skin is pure NAZI.

The New Douche Bag Panthers are just that Black Nazi's who hate hate hate.

Nazi's, Skinheads and Panthers they are all the same HATE FILLED MORONS who only deserve one thing and that's one behind the ear.

I reside in Cali 8( we do not have CCW well if I was a elite or movie star I could get one 8(

Your State of Texas is f ing awesome you are lucky your Constitutional Rights are in place.

The bounty the Panthers put on his head was wrong, but it was also wrong for him to approach this young man with a gun and shoot him dead. If he had the injuries he say he had, when he got out of the police car it could have been seen on the footage. Now if he got his azz beat inside the jail that is another thing.

when he got out of the police car it could have been seen on the footage.

Please try to keep up with the facts- it was visible on the footage once the tape was re-digitized. It was kept the same resolution so nothing was removed or added, just clarified. It's legal, and still admissible in court.

Yes there are a lot a racist and Zimmerman is one of them. He needs to be charged with murder. And there is evidence if it just dose not get ignored.

There is so much evidence against Zimmer Boy that it takes time to write it all up.

Whats wrong with racial profiling? we all do it all the time.

The evidence all supports Zimmerman's story. It's just that the media doesn't want you to know. Goto www.wagist.com for all the latest info, includes all the phone calls, videos, eyewitness info, overhead maps, and timestamping. See for yourself. The truth is Trayvon doubled back and initiated the confrontation. He was already at his house or next to it, and Zimm was already on his way back to his car. Trayvon started out trying to avoid the fight, but ended up looking for one after the situation had already defused. Anyone who doesn't think this was self defense, simply doesn't have the facts.

Still living in the "Right-Wing bubble". Please don't fall down and hurt yourself!

Zimmer By will be rearrested, convicted and will probably spend the rest of his miserable life in prison.

Jebby Bush will never be President and The Repugtards will develop a conscious after all.

Remember, the KKK started the "Hoodie thing"

It's obvious there is such a huge cover-up for Zimmerman that it is broad and deep in the police department and who knows how far up. They are hiding something ... and it ain't nothin' short of a major funk.

They tried to sweep it under a rug. Now, they are doing damage control. People are calling in favors, and they are twisting the prosecutor's arm to minimize the damage. For all we know, they have juicy tidbits on the new prosecutor.

It all stinks to high heaven.

I think they are taking their time and making sure they get it right. With the whole world looking at them they don't want to get this wrong. No matter what they do bad things are going to happen. This is a loose loose situation for this whole country. The media and even us sitting here making comments have made this tragic story into a bomb waiting to explode.

savannah rae

Zimmer By will be rearrested, convicted and will probably spend the rest of his miserable life in prison.

Well which is it? He WAS arrested or he wasn't? You have him being convicted without a trial. Go read the FLORIDA law, not what you THINK is an appropriate sentence. The worst charge Florida can apply is MANSLAUGHTER for 15 years, plus illegal use of a firearm, 3 years mandated. Those, presuming he is convicted. 18 years tops, first CONVICTION gets him 7 out in 3 maybe 4.. he would have to serve 3 on the firearm charge as that is a mandatory sentence with no "good time" reduction.

Jebby Bush will never be President and The Repugtards will develop a conscious after all.

Correct on Jebby most likely... The Repugtards or TeaTards get a conscience not likely as they are barely conscious.

Remember, the KKK started the "Hoodie thing"

So you are stating that young Black males are emulating the KKK? I guess emulating prisoners with their pants down at their knees is so they are easier to bend over as well?

Zimmerman was never guilty except in the eyes of the race baiters like Jesse Jackson and Al (the felon) Sharpton. The prosecutors were looking at the facts and not the emotions and that's why there is no grand jury. This is a typical liberal media thing that got out of control that was never fact based until all the evidence was in. NBC Modifying the 911 tape only added fire to the case. Typical lies by the liberal media, but this time they got their hand caught in the cookie jar.

We can speculate.. state opinions. Either side is free to do that.. BUT the special prosecutor cant,,She has to rely on evidence that will stand up in court.Her evidence wil be run tru the mill by the defense..She has to look at her side and look at how she thinks the defense will try to out do her.. Her future is at stake here,, Its a high profile case. If she goes for a trail and loses,,Her career is finshed. If she wins..she can demand any salary she wants from 1000 law firms. If the styg law wasnt involved.. She would already asked for a trial. That just doubles her problems. Theres also the APPEALS she will have to look at... NO prosecutor wants a case overturned. considering how witnesses have changed their story. This is NOT a slam dunk case. No matter which side WE support. Look at what the prosecutor has to do. Prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That alone is tough enough,,But the Fla law only makes it harder. I feel sorry for that woman..I really do,

I'll stand my ground.

one word for you...TOOL.

EWUSNRET

I'll stand my ground.

Careful - someone just might "SYG" you, a la Zimmerman.

EWUSNRET, you are not the only one capable of standing their ground. You militia types may rue the day you stir up ish.

Been there, Done that, Got the freaking Tshirt. Suggestion when the army tells you to get your butt back in the house while armed with a machine gun don't argue just do it. You are now under martial law and you have no freaking rights.

This is why when I see in the news some white kid killed his/her whole family, I get a little tingly inside. They new you were evil and did the world a favor. Rarely do you see it in the news where a black family member killed the whole family kids and all but it is common among you pedophilic white people. You fill your kids with hatred and molest them and they turn on you. Dateline NBC exposed the world to the fact that most white males have a propencity towards raping little kids.

kevin

Dateline NBC exposed the world to the fact that most white males have a propencity towards raping little kids.

Would that be the same Dateline that doctored the tapes in this story?

Wow Kevin 8( I can't believe you believe that @!$%#

LOL

I catch someone raping my children they are @!$%#ing dead.

Kevin.. you are a racist pos that should not be allowed to contribute to the gene pool.

Runs like a coward?! If the Black Panthers put a 10g bounty on your head you'd be hiding right now 2 f00l

Runs like a coward?

Yep. Hasn't changed at all. He was a paranoid coward the night he murder Trayvon and he's a coward still. I suspect a great many people who carry and conceal could easily be mistaken for his twin, mentally anyway. The whole impression those here supporting him give is that of fearful, paranoid delusionals. Like little Napoleons with tiny cannons in their pocket and not much intheir package.

Just look at their posts...its reeks of fear and racism, plain as day. I guess fear and ignorance go hand in hand.

I personally hope he is not charged. I hope they drop all charges against him. He will then lose his protective custody and be free to go. No more state sponsored protection for this son of a circuit court judge. Without his fathers connections as a judge maybe he would not have grown up so quick to hit cops, women and eventually escatated to this action. His father is partially guilty for getting him out of so many past jams. Well the free ride is over. I hope he walks. I want them to stop this proceeding now and allow him to walk scott free so he can be brought to justice the old fashioned way. He sentenced Trayvon to death for what he deemed to be looking suspicious, now it is his turn to come to glory.