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Subscribe to RSSIn the affidavit prosecutors suggest George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, which could be relevant when characterizing Zimmerman's state of mind. NBC's Savannah Guthrie reports.
If George Zimmerman, the killer of Trayvon Martin, wants to claim self-defense under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, he most certainly will have to testify, criminal defense attorneys in Florida told msnbc.com.
It is rare in criminal cases for defendants to be called to testify because they have a right against self-incrimination and it opens them up to sharp questions from prosecutors.
But Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Martin during a scuffle in a gated Sanford, Fla., community on Feb. 26, will need to explain why he thought his life was in danger when he shot the unarmed black teenager, attorneys not involved with the case say.
Zimmerman, 28, is white and Hispanic.
Zimmerman's new attorney: Who is Mark O'Mara?
The killing of Martin, 17, has sparked protests across the nation as well as emotionally charged debate about race relations and self-defense laws. Even President Barack Obama has commented on the case, saying, "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon."
“There is no way around it,” Derek Byrd, incoming president of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, told msnbc.com. “I personally believe he would have to testify. It’s not like a case where there were three other witnesses. Who else is going to say he was fearing for his safety when he shot Trayvon Martin?”
Mark O'Mara, attorney for George Zimmerman, says that the Martin family has been through a horrible tragedy, and that he won't be going after the mother of a deceased child for saying the incident was an 'accident.'
Nellie King, a Palm Beach-area defense attorney who is president of the association of defense lawyers, agreed.
“Zimmerman is the only person who can re-enact what took place that night,” King said.
Prosecutors contend George Zimmerman provoked confrontation with Trayvon Martin
Zimmerman’s testimony would likely take place at an evidentiary hearing, under which the “Stand Your Ground” law allows the defense to ask a judge for immunity from prosecution because it’s a clear case of self-defense.
Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, has said self-defense will be a strategy in the case.
It could be months before such a hearing takes place, however. Here are the steps in the legal process and possible strategies Zimmerman might take.
First appearance: Zimmerman appeared in court on Thursday for what amounted to a brief reading of the charge. Judge Mark E. Herr said he found probable cause to move ahead with the case with an arraignment held May 29 before Circuit Court Judge Jessica Recksiedler.
Bond hearing: O’Mara said Thursday he will submit a bond motion before the arraignment. If granted, Zimmerman would get out of jail while court proceedings continue. According to legal experts, to deny the bond motion, the state must have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is clearly guilty of the charge against him. Here the judge could set the bond at whatever amount she sees fit. If the judge sets a high bond amount, Zimmerman’s attorney can make a motion to reduce it, arguing that Zimmerman doesn't have the money and isn't a risk to flee.
Arraignment: The May 29 arraignment is a formal reading of the charge against Zimmerman. According to legal experts, arraignments in Florida often take place electronically through the filing of paperwork with attorneys, and defendants do not necessarily need to appear in court.
Discovery of evidence: Under Florida legal rules, prosecutors have 15 days after an arrest to give the defense what evidence they have against Zimmerman. As a practical matter, prosecutors make available evidence as they get it. The evidence is expected to include witness testimony from Sanford police officers and others, forensic evidence, photographs and audio recordings. An unusual feature of legal procedure in Florida, according to attorneys, is that defense attorneys can subpoena prosecution witnesses to take part in depositions. In the depositions, witnesses are asked specific questions, on the record, about what they saw and heard along with more probing questions such as how well they see and hear, how close they were to the crime and if anyone else was nearby. These types of questions can also lead to the discovery of more witnesses and information. In other states, such questioning of prosecution witnesses only takes place during a trial.
Evidentiary hearing: Under the Stand Your Ground law, as interpreted by the Florida Supreme Court, a judge can grant Zimmerman immunity from prosecution in this type of hearing. Here is where Zimmerman is expected to tell why he feared for his life when he scuffled with Martin. Those hearings are like a “mini trials,” King said, in which experts on Zimmerman’s emotional state will also likely be called to testify, as well as any other witnesses in the case. If a judge decides there is enough evidence to show Zimmerman did act in self-defense based on the preponderance of the evidence, the judge can rule that Zimmerman can’t be prosecuted, essentially dismissing the criminal case.
Motion for change of venue: Typically one of the last motions before trial begins. Zimmerman’s attorney hasn’t said if he will seek to change where the trial takes place, or if it will take place in Seminole County Court in Sanford, where Martin was killed and emotions run high. Some say since publicity in the case is so widespread, there may be nowhere to find a jury not tainted by news coverage, and Sanford may be as good a place as any other location.
Trial: It could be at least a year before a trial, with the first step the choosing a jury. Here potential jurors are expected to be asked what they know about the case from media accounts, their feelings on race relations and other factors that may influence their decision-making. Attorneys from both sides will have the opportunity to ask questions and dismiss people they don’t believe are fit for the jury. Legal observers say the fact that Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager will be the central focus of prosecutors at trial. Prosecutors will need to contend that the block watch volunteer's shooting of Martin was rooted in hatred or ill will -- the necessary element to prove second-degree murder. The defense will argue that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and feared for his life. The jury can decide if Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder or the lesser charge of manslaughter.
Sentencing: In Florida, the judge will decide what sentence will be imposed if Zimmerman is found guilty.
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I can't decide where I think George Zimmerman would be safer, jail or out of jail. Actually, I meant where he would be more likely to get a cap up his a$$ or a shiv in his neck. Bye bye George.
You sure are a Christian...way to represent.
Yah, what the heck soldier.
Stop talking and acting like a bad***
I agree, Dave. Christian Soldier certainly seems to have some issues. I'll bet he's up there singing in the choir every Sunday and the first one to jump up when it's testimony time, even though (clearly), by his comment, he's a pretty messed up dude.
I think people should seriously throw away the lense of race here. The mere act of an adult chasing a child and killing the child is heinous enough and we all should be troubled by it. Is it possible there is a racial angle to it. Quite possible. But why muck it up when clearly the basic facts are so strong where Zimmerman chased and the kid lost his life.
Sorry guys for the way Christian Soldier is acting. Any Christian knows not to judge someone else and their actions. This is the way he feels, not the way a Christian acts. Even though we "all" have opinions, it is up to the lawyer to do their jobs to convict Zimmerman. My opinion is that what ever happens to Zimmerman is because of his actions and what he chose to do. We "all" are held accountable for the actions/choices we make and only Zimmerman knows what really happened that night. Whether he is found innocent or guilty, he will have to live the rest of his life with it.
Anyone hear about the black guy in Phoenix who shot a mexican man who he almost ran over in the drive through of Taco Bell? His defense was that he said the mexican man had a pipe, it turned out to be a dog leash. Any arrest of course not, any Obama b.s., of course not, any public outcry from our country's leaders, of course not. Why? Because it doesn't serve their political agenda. With the statements that Obama made publicly George Zimmerman has been found guilty before he was ever even charged. This is some bull crap that the media and politicians are using to improve their own positions, whether it be ratings or political agenda.
I hope this keeps Sharpton quiet for a while ....
Ok the witch hunt has put him in jail. Can we move on you sheeple.
I have tried to make no judgement until the facts are out on this one. The media has bent this case already, starting with the pictures of a 12 year old and omitting conversations that made Zimmerman look racist. With the NB Panthers putting a bounty on Zimmerman's head and the media going after him, he is safer in jail. Now the judicial system can do it's job and determine if Zimmerman acted accordingly or aggressively and whether Martin was an innocent kid or a thug.
Unless you were there that night you can only judge on the media's presentation which is flawed at best.
The only fact is a 17 year old is dead and a family grieves. There is no evidence yet that Martin or Zimmerman were the aggressors.
But I am glad there is a trial, if there wasn't, Zimmerman would also be a dead man as racists would have taken the law into their own hands.
Oh the humanity! It's a troll you tards.
So many people talk about a case in their state or town and then blame someone else for it not getting special attention. So quit complaining and get off your butt and do something like Trayvons parents did. Then some of you complain that they brought in Sharpton or Jesse, well if it was YOUR son wouldn't you try every possible way to bring justice for YOUR son? Whine whine, whine. Oh if he was white, oh if he was black, oh if he was purple......Jesus! Do something about it or it won't stop. Zimmerman stands accused of profiling before he shot Trayvon, that is a fact, that is a charge.
It's clear to me that this is a 'politically correct' prosecution, intended to keep a lid on a racially divisive issue until after the November elections. There is a serious lack of evidence for a successful prosecution, so the case will likely be thrown out a few months after the elections.
I find it interesting that a half White President is called Black, but a half White Hispanic is called White AND Hispanic.
Personally, I think this could cost Obama Florida in the elections because it will turn heavily Cuban Florida against what they see as a politically motivated prosecution of a Hispanic.
WTF it's going on? Now Zimmerman looks darker than the Negro cop besides him. Zimmerman(Jew?), is whiter than the dude who offed the 3 blacks in Tulsa OK. Incidentally, why don't we hear about that case?
This guy may not be a Christian, but he sure is a successful troll. Just look at how many of you idiots bit the bait. LOL
Ray el Viejo---Zimmerman's mother is from Peru, thus he is "hispanic".
Trayvon was 6'2" 160 pound in shape athlete football player. Drugs found in his school bag. Burglar tools found in his school bag. Transfer from one school to another because he had problems with his fellow students. Suspended from school 3 times....Facebook page shows him with a mouth full of gold teeth & tattoos... Not Exactly the poster "child" for the perfect student that the Media has led the masses to believe.
Justified
Go tell that to the prosecutors
this is just a rumor, but I have heard from a few lawyers in Florida, that Zimms lawyer took the case pro-bono, the family does not have the money to pay for a AV or BV rated attorney.
Facebook page shows him with a mouth full of gold teeth & tattoos... Not Exactly the poster "child" for the perfect student that the Media has led the masses to believe.
@ Justified... Did you know that Facebook picture isn't Trayvon? It's been circling the internet and it's fake. Btw, that tattoo in your avatar... is it yours?
A screwdriver may be used as a burglary tool for some fools, but for the rest of the world it's a freaking screwdriver... the school has a choice, call it a weapon or a tool, they chose tool to make it a lesser offense.... Wake up people! If the school wanted to, they would have registered the screwdriver as a weapon and he would have been expelled... the school must have seen something in Trayvon and thought he was "worth the trouble" or trust me they would have expelled him!
Justified,
Unless you can find a statement that shows Zimmerman saw the alleged "burglary tools" then it doesn't change the idea that Zimmerman profiled Martin. Regardless of what the kid was like in his personal life it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't committing a crime or up to no good in the moments before he was murdered. If we allowed killings based solely on whether or not society deems one to be "a good person" then that opens the door for vigilante & witchhunt-like behavior. Do you really think there is any justification in that? Do you even know what your screename means????
Interesting slant on why he must take the stand. From what I "know" Zimmerman was interviewed by the Police that night and they apparently thought his "stand his ground" defense was factual enough that they did not arrest him.
So should not the "non arresting" officers testimony be entered into the proceeding to see if there is the need for additional "evidence?"
Should his physical condition when taken to the police department be considered first?
Who knows but I am sure tired of MS-BS making news stories for something that won't even begin to happen for a year. Leave it alone.
PS - And then we have CS above who has already found him guilty and is calling for violence. Sigh.
Everybody keeps bringing up the fact that he had injuries when he was arrested but keep in mind that he was the one pursuing Trayvon Martin (as heard in the 911 call). If some strange person carrying a gun is following you (and i mean "you" as in general) and you have no idea why, wouldn't you try to fight back too so you don't get shot or killed. Unfortunately for Trayvon he tried to fight for himself and ended up dead anyway.
I'm only saying this because some ppl are making it seem like the fact that he had injuries excuses him and gives him reason for the "stand your ground" defense but in my opinion Trayvon was the one "standing his ground" since George Zimmerman was the one pursuing him.
sum wat twisted sister. and u ned to go to other sites an read wat is bein siad there?! pik 1,cnn,cnbc,beast,anys of dem. u in for a surprise an u wil chng u r thnkng
Madeline Gomez-Rossvia
"......Trayvon was the one "standing his ground" since George Zimmerman was the one pursuing him."
As you said, "in your opinion." But what do you know? Nothing.
Let it go to trial and then you will have the best information you can have, not your opinion.
This is what is wrong, people like you make up their mind based on their "opinion" or translated that be your "feelings."
Justice for all depends on facts, not feelings. Give it a break.
You forgot the part where the dispatcher says, 'The police will meet him at the mailboxes', and then George interjects and says, "Can you tell the police to give me a call and I will tell them my location?" Which seems to indicate that instead of continuing to his car to meet the police at the mailboxes, he decided to continue the pursuit.
Billfromoregon. The "facts" are not based on feelings.Madeline is correct since no one has heard Trayvon's side of the story! You have actually convicted Trayvon of ...WHAT? There are plenty of "facts" in all of this. One is that it has been proven that Trayvon was doing nothing wrong to warrant the pursuit by Zimmerman, with a loaded gun to boot! All we have is a statement by the killer, Zimmerman, saying that he was defending himself. Don't any of you crazy people see why he would say that? Certainly his saying sodoesn't prove that he was in any danger. And logically it makes no sense to assume that he was. The young boy was not armed and Z. was. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Not the boy. All of that is obvious. So what you are doing is blaming the victim, Trayvon.
And George, you seem to have more evidence than even the police have. Quite a bit of time on your hands to sit around fabricating such nonsense.
Since "noone has heard from Trayvon" how do you know the "facts?" "It has been "proven" that Trayvon was doing nothing wrong."
Where the heck to you make up that your statements (feelings) are fact?
Dang, this country is going downhill fast. You appear to have the makings of a "
good" lawyer.Yeah since the Police determined that Zimmerman was telling the truth --- then it must be the truth.
Are you kidding me? Since when the police have become the beacon of truth? They why do we have courts?
Again Bill, it HAS been proven that Trayvon was doing NOTHING WRONG. Trayvon had nothing on him to indicate he was in the middle of a crime of any sort. Trayvon had only left the home of his father's girlfriend minutes before this happened in pursuit of candy and a soft drink. NOT in pursuit of a home to break into. Trayvon's body was found just YARDS AWAY FROMT THE HOUSE HE WAS STAYING IN. So you see, it HAS been proven that Trayvon had every right to be in that neighborhood. He was doing nothing wrong. He was only walking home from the store. In your book that may be a reason to kill a person, but in court it will show that Zimmerman was a vigilante bent on apprehending a black boy for an imaginary crime. And the fact that he was carrying a LOADED GUN hints that he may have been looking for a victim. I found it quite interesting also that Zimmerman stated Trayvon shouted at him, "you are going to die today. You are dead". This is the statement most other gun enthusiasts have used when killing people in "self defense" since the law was passed. Why would Trayvon say such a thing when HE was the one staring down the barell of a gun??? You seem to lack logic, Bill.
chucksteaksbfalo -
Do you actually speak English, or is it a foreign language to you? Seriously, I recognize a slight resemblance to the English language and a few English words mixed in there, but as far as any coherency in your post, I can find little if any. If you wish to make a point and have anyone take it seriously in even the remotest sense, it might behoove you to type it up in a half way intelligent manner.
I'm no grammar-nazi and I usually ignore typos and grammatical errors, as I am by no means perfect myself, but your post is pretty ridiculous and really merits some stern criticism.
and unfortunately, you lack an actual timeline... and since everyThing will continue to be unknown, a trial is the best course of action to find the closest thing to the truth. RIP Trayvon.
there is only 2 possible scenarios...
1. Zimmerman pulled gun 1st, kid freaks out and fights back (rightfully so in this scenario), Zimmerman starts getting the ish kicked out of him, Zimmerman freaks out and shoots Trayvon in fear.
2. Zimmerman confronts Trayvon, Trayvon takes on the typical youth rebellion, kid throws 1st punch, zimmerman freaks out, kid starts beating the ish out of Zimmerman, Zimmernan fears death, Zimmerman pulls trigger.
Shut up
Warbeast. So funny. Chucko was mixed up. He thought he was texting. He probably IS texting. People have been so dummed down since texting. They forget how to spell and communicate.
Not to be mean Bill but what you"know" is not based on facts. I will prove it to you. First lets examine your statement "So should not the "non arresting" officers testimony be entered into the proceeding to see if there is the need for additional "evidence?"". Before I explain why this statement is wrong let me then add in your next statement "Should his physical condition when taken to the police department be considered first?". One sentence before that you said he was not arrested, then you go on to acknowledge he was brought into the police station (And the video proves this much). I think it was clear he was arrested. The police actually did not buy his story but the PROSECUTOR did not think there were enough "evidence" for him to be charged of a crime. Point is, people really need to think stuff out before they go on rants...
Apparently, according to Consider-it, beating someone to death is nothing wrong. However, it has not been proven that Martin did anything wrong before he saw Zimmerman. That's not the same as proving he didn't do anything wrong. It has been shown that Martin was authorized to be ther. But so was Zimmerman; and Consider-it is not saying that it has been proven that Zimmerman did nothing wrong.
Now, I don't think that walking home from the store is reason to kill somebody. But I think Martin was beating Zimmerman to death and that Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. And that's all Zimmerman had the right to do. If he had put a few more shots in the body to "make sure," that would be murder. But he didn't do that. He acted to save his own skin.
Consider-it seems to think that being beaten to death is not a danger, that one should just lie down and let it happen. I disagree. Zimmerman's injuries support his claim that he was in danger. I also don't believe that Zimmerman was just looking for a victim. Someone who is searching for a victim and calls the police so that he can easily be caught is "too dumb to live." I don't think that Zimmerman was that stupid. Someone who calls the police to stage a self-defense claim and does so successfully is a criminal mastermind. I don't think that Zimmerman was that smart. Logically, then, I must conclude that he called the police because (rightly or wrongly) he thought he saw someone who was up to something and he wanted the police to apprehend the person.
As Consider-it points out, Martin was very close to the place that he was staying. He was so close in fact that Zimmerman could not have caught him, and had Martin screamed, he would have gotten his father's attention right away. I must conclude both that Martin was not trying to get away and that Martin did not scream. Martin attacked Zimmerman. And Zimmerman screamed for his life like a little girl. (You may commence giggling.)
Note that the people that want Zimmerman's head need to make Martin out to be some sort of angel. I, on the other hand, don't need Zimmerman to be an angel. I think he did some stupid things along the way. But I think he was trying to identify someone he thought was a burglar to the police. And I further think that when Martin assaulted him (Martin not wanting to be identified to the police) Zimmerman fired a single shot in self-defense.
It's clear to me that this is a 'politically correct' prosecution, intended to keep a lid on a racially divisive issue until after the November elections. There is a serious lack of evidence for a successful prosecution, so the case will likely be thrown out a few months after the elections.
I find it interesting that a half White President is called Black, but a half White Hispanic is called White AND Hispanic.
Personally, I think this could cost Obama Florida in the elections because it will turn heavily Cuban Florida against what they see as a politically motivated prosecution of a Hispanic.
guess that we here in Oregon are far enough away from Florida to have a little different perspective than people on the east coast. We don't have a vested interest in the outcome, no money to gain..No political point to make...No civil rights groups fighting to get their names in the news....Bill your right about the down hill slide the country is on. Just try to express your opinion and your told your on a rant..Torian says not to be mean... Then what do you mean to be???
Considerit-Do you all get together and try to come up with different ways to say the same dumb things? You seem to have alot of time on your hands to fabricate fantasies. So this is what I think of your posts and how muh more attention I intend to give them..........000000000000000000000000000000000000.
The cowardly folks at MSNBC have already convicted this man. I thought I was watching Nancy Grace and Jane valez mitchell on MSNBC the way they are hanging this man.
So Bill, let me stalk your daughter and when she tries to defend herself, and I kill her, you will defend my right to kill her.
MSNBC and all other news outlets need to STFU about this already. They got the guy, he is in custody and charged. That is what everyone said they wanted to happen. NOW you need to shut UP and let the law handle this.
I get that you want to keep everyone informed as to the proceedings and keep everyone up to date. But everyone having all of these "legal experts" up there mouthing off about about what they think the law is going to find and hashing this stuff out is going to prejudice the case to the point that they won't even be able to convene a jury and this guy will walk just like Casey Anthony did.
If you guys arent going to shut up about it, they had better go ahead and convene and sequester a jury right now so that the defense can't say the jury has been compromised.
All of the bickering, debating and justifying is all mute and meaningless. If you TARGET someone for any reason, FOLLOW THEM and then approach them...EVEN AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD BY THE POLICE TO LEAVE THEM ALONE....YOU ARE THE AGGRESSOR and IT IS NOT SELF DEFENSE. Nobody told him to bother the kid. Nobody told him to approach him. He CHOSE to FOR NO GOOD REASON.
I guess if I go into a grocery store with a loaded gun and try to rob it and the store owner tries to beat me up and I wind up shooting and killing him....ITS SELF DEFENSE? Puhleeezzzzzz!
Being young and Black does not make you a suspicious person, unless you are a prejudiced, racist, VIGILANTE. This was a predatory murder and a hate crime!
Once again I will splain it to Madaline Lopez. Yes, if TM feared for his life or safety he WAS covered by SYG. However. by attacking GZ, TM automatically put GZ under the same protection according to the exact wording of the SYG law. Take a littlle time and read the Fla. SYG law and you will find that it is very specific and very simple. If a person has a reasonable fear of harm they can use deadly force to protect themselves. Everyone says that TM was committing no crimes. That may be true but neither was GZ. And do not give me that sh!t about 911 dispatchers telling him not to follw TM.they ARE NOT officers of the law. They are radio dispatchers and have no legal authority.
George Zimmerman said that his head was bashed on the cement and he was knocked out from that. Ever seen someone who got knocked out as much as he claims JUMP out of a car and walk in a straight line? His nose was broken? Did the cops use an invisible bandaid to tape his nose up? Is there a medical report from a doctor-- a REAL doctor with a degree from a reputable medical school? Is there an X-ray of his broken nose?
How come his "witnesses" have started coming out of the woodwork now?
There was ONE witness. The Lord only knows and He won't tell.
@Citizen X.
You're mixing apples and bananas. This case is about a 6-foot Negro, wearing a hood, in a neighborhood where he didn't belong, problably up to no good, who attacked a member of the community doing his duty.
Let's quit pretending Martin is an inocent, sweet pre-teen as portayed by the Obama controlled media....
Bill from Oregon -
The "Know-Nothings" were a vital political party at one time. Since then they split into the Democratic and Republican parties. Look into the mirror.
Sorry ray, it was a teenager walking home from the store after buying some skittles and tea. Your racism cannot define a teenagers actions.
Zimmerson's statement on the 911 tape, "these a**holes always get away", defines his state of mind in the moments before the shooting. It is evidence of why he disregarded the 911 operators directive to stand down and not follow, but to wait for the police, and got out of his car to follow the kid instead.
At this point he should do the right thing and take a plea to a lesser charge. Manslaughter would be appropriate.
Incredible that all these people can come up with so many scenarios to make it seem Trayvon was a suspect, perp, criminal, big mean football player ranging from 5'11" to 6"5" from 200lb's to 240lbs, wore a gold grill like popular rap artists and other fashion conscience people and that was not just a gold grill but Trayvon was so mean... he bit off the grill from a 54 Buick Roadmaster and wore it while drinking ice tea and eating skittles while talking teenage boy/girl kissypoo talk on the phone in the rain. Skip all your B.S. and just come out and say you hate blacks. Then go away and play with your video games where you are ruler of the world instead of facing the reality that you are just a little piss ant.
Natalie Jackson is a gorgeous woman...!!!
Gomez-Ross, the problem with your post is you say fight back. Fight back means you think Zimmerman was hitting Martin first. Please, do tell I am quite intrigued with this spin.
considerit, Martin was doing nothing wrong until he hit Zimmerman in the face. That is an assault. Crime committed. Self defense is understood. There is no "right to be there" when you are not a resident but a visiting guest of a resident. Being a guest you must be on your best behaviour.
If Martin felt so threatened why didn't he call the police. He had a cell phone and tells his GF about the man following him. She tells him to run home and he says no. That sounds like I am a tough guy and I will not be scared off .
There is no U.S. Federal, State
or Local Law that prohibits an individual from questioning any other person for
any reason.
So Mr. Zimmerman would have been
acting within his legal rights to ask Martin or anybody else any question that
he likes.
It is also within every
individuals right to not answer that question.
It is a well known fact that Mr.
Zimmerman is the Captain or Co-Captain of the neighborhood watch that was
founded and set up by the citizens of that neighborhood and the local police
department.
The watch group is not
registered with the state.
There is no Federal, State or
Local law that allows an individual to strike another person unless that person
has been physically harmed in any way and is acting in self defense.
It is possible however that an
individual by their actions can cause a situation to escalate. While they might
not have broken any law they by their actions cause a situation to occur or get
worse.
if at any time Martin felt he was in danger (as he was never confronted by Mr.
Zimmerman) he would have been within his legal rights to call the local police
department and notify them that he was being followed by Mr. Zimmerman.
It has been verified that it was
Zimmerman calling out for help in the 911 tapes.
Zimmerman think how to get away with crime is a professional skill of criminals,when he manipulates with planned situations by "FIRST"apply procedures covering his ass@,in informing his community police's which,they might know him close and personal, as he's a community vigilante,and his father was retired former Judge,he advancing all "tactics" in committing his hidden hatred crime.But as what the stupid does,he did stupid, doesn't help.
No matter what your "reasons" were for "walking off your property" even against the police advice to confront "a un-armed kid " down the street, the act of leaving your yard and challenging him is going to undermine your claim that it was "Stand Your Ground" as 'self-defense' a total BS.
The Prosecutor Should charge him "FIRST DEGREE" murder.And the court "Verdict" should be 'an eyes for an eyes" . PERIOD.(apply to all regardless)
1) The Florida "Stand Your Ground" must "STAND DOWN",as there are already so many Self Defence clause in LAWS.
2) If this law still stands,it might cause Havoc in Future, when handling wiith professional hatred crimes.
Senarios
When someone you hatred, happened to be at front your porch ,This sick manics,fetch his gun out and his cell phone dialing 911,telling them that someone with suspicious character is at your porch,yelling ,oh NO,Oh No, he's raising his hands toward me ,with an object ! Help,Help,Help ...BANG
Its happened to be someone kid(regardless),holding a package of candy celebrating his Hallo wen's day or someone with road map out of his pocket, needs to ask for direction,etc....
Oh Im sorry .
DID "STAND YOUR GROUND" APPLY .
Before anyone is quick to hang this guy, he like anybody else has a right to a fair trial where ALL the facts are brought out, not just what the news prints. Maybe he is guilty and deserves jail, but let the courts and jury decide based on the entire story and not bits and pieces of it.
Most of us know that your local police department has a non-emergency number, right?Zimmerman simply have time to use the non-emergency phone number to call his local police department chatting,or his acquintance perharps!!covering his ass@.
While,the poor kid, Martin call 911, as what many of us will do in emergency,specially,when one's live in danger,and its the most fastest respon time of help will be arrive,and its recorded.
Madeline Gomez-Ross if some strange fellow was following me with a gun, he would of have to hit me running. How did George get close enough to Martin if Martin did not confront him? Poor Black kid with dope bags stolen jewelry and looked like a gang banger. How many innocent people get killed from gang bangers each year.. Remember most of the Gang Bangers are kids. If Martin was killed from a Black Guy the news media would not even made mention of it. Good way to sell advertising, News media controlled you again..
To be honest, I do believe Zimmerman was a little overzealous in his "security duties" in the neighborhood, but I also believe the outcome would have been the same if this had been a person of any other race, as well. The only thing that might have made a difference is if his "suspect" had been much larger than he was, or if there had been more than one person walking through the neighborhood. I don't know if he's racist or not, but I don't think that's his main motivation. The Sanford PD, on the other hand, I think did blow off a more thorough investigation because Martin was black. Add to that the fact that the SYG law makes investigation much more burdensome for law enforcement, and you end up with zero incentive to investigate.
Our wild speculation and fantastical explanations leading to "The Answer" are now trumped by the experts. Second Degree Murder is the official charge made by expert investigators. Now we sit back and watch.
Being followed, or "stalked" if that's what you prefer to label it, is not justification to attack the person following you.
Had Travon knocked GZ unconscious when he punched him, he could later have been arrested for assault. Had he hit GZ hard enough to kill him, or knock him out causing him to suffer a fatal injury when his head hit the ground, Travon would be on trial for murder.
Not necessarily just waving a gun around is enough to be considered a provoking act.
If someone is threatening you with a gun you have a right to engage in any actions it takes to rid yourself of that threat.
Yes there is you are an invited guest and have a right to be there based on being invited by a member of the community. Additionally until being stalked by Zimmerman it appears Martin was on his best behavior.
So it's against the law to not be bullied? Who confronted who?
@ hs321
Being followed, or "stalked" if that's what you prefer to label it, is not justification to attack the person following you. Had Travon knocked GZ unconscious when he punched him, he could later have been arrested for assault.
Wow. Trayvon could have been arrested for assault? That's horrible! I guess he was lucky he was killed (murdered) then, huh?
one less druggie/thief on the street
The fact of the matter is noone knows all the facts, and you can say this had been proven or that has been proven and its ignorant to argue about it because both sides already have their minds made up from either their racial standpoint, what they have heard from bogus media slants to sell the race card because " It raises ratings " And puts money in to Sharpton and Jacksons pockets. The world would be a better place without those 2 screaming race at everything and inciteing protests at the drop of a hat. Stats do not lie that 76% of deadly shootings in America are commited by young black males and thats a fact. Thats not profiling but truth. If Zimmerman were black noone would of ever heard of this except in this local community. And you can bet your @ss Sharpton and Jackson wouldnt be seen anywhere near this place.
There is still so much up for speculation the case will go on for a long time mostly for politcal agendas and propaganda. Facts remain noone knows how Trayvon was approached could of been in a rude manner. Zimmerman had every right to ask him questions as a part of the watch program and never seeing him before in the community. As well as Trayvon had every right to tell Z to leave him alone and refuse to answer , but as a 17 yr old KID he should have had manners intilled in him to answer and go on about his business being a KID if he was in truth doing nothing wrong but buying candy. Im not even gonna touch the bag of weed in this poor kids bag ( probably a friends) As a child it is apalling and disrespectful to speak to adults with out respect ( as should have been instilled in him by parenting) . Zimmerman also could haqve approached him in a manner unbecoming the position he was given as a Racist Power junky and invoked a fight who knows . None of this is gonna matter it comes down to who touched who first and if Z shot him while TM was on top of him. If so he deserved it. If not Z should rot in jail for shooting a kid. If TM was walking away Z will go to jail. If TM was beating the tish outta Z and trying to grab his gun he got what he deserved . Either way if Z is guilty a poor kid died over stupidity. If TM was guilty the Z did the right thing only the court can tell...
Kat:
No, no one is saying that Martin was lucky. People are saying that that assault justifies the self-defense claim.
Kragg:
However, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did this. For example on the tape, there is no background voice shouting "oh, my ***** he's got a gun."
I think Martin confronted Zimmerman. And I think he did so because he did not want to be identified to the police. The burden of proof, however, is on the prosecution to show it did not happen that way.
EXCEPT:
NONE of you KNOW that Trayvon "attacked" ANYONE!
Why do you people keep insisting that Trayvon "attacked" GZ??
Cause Sean told you?
Use your critical thinking skills.....WHY would Trayvon attack GZ??
Nope but there is a background voice in the 911 call screaming that isn't Zimmerman.
Bill from Oregon,
GLad you put the "know" in quotations because it should really be what you "think you know", which unfortunately isn't factual. The police have stated many times that they were told by the DA not to arrest Zimmerman. It wasn't their decision!
We can only speculate based on sketchy media info. This will all come out in discovery very soon and then we won't have to guess.
I've looked at a great deal of the evidence available (which isn't much) and my speculation is this:1. Both parties escalated the encounter into a fight as men with attitudes tend to do.2. Both parties engaged in fighting after the argument.3. Trayvon "won" the fight, which is what most of the evidence shows. Trayvon most likely had a 'i showed you' attitude. 4. Zimmerman shot Trayvon after Trayvon had already discontuned fighting.
I believe the key evidence will end up showing that Zimmerman shot Trayvon at a distance. I think it will be hard to argue that shooting Trayvon in self defense was even possible.
1. In order to be in a life-threatening situation, Zimmerman would have had to be in a vulnerable position on the ground, since Trayvon had no weapon. 2. Zimmerman did not shoot Trayvon while he was on top, because he had none of Trayvon's blood on his person. *This is basically the key evidence that will decide the case*3. If Zimmerman was the one screaming on the 911 call (which is unlikely based on available conjecture), then he was clearly not in a position to pull a weapon and fire. He was in a losing, vulnerable position, not a position to be struggling to gain control of a weapon. He would only be able to shoot Trayvon after the beating ended, in which case, his life was no longer in danger (unless you want to argue that Trayvon was giving him a break). At any rate, simply showing the weapon from a distance would have been enough to end the fight, rather than firing the weapon.4. If Trayvon was the one screaming on the 911 call, then that invalidates any claims to self defense by Zimmerman.
While no one can say for sure, I will speculate that it will be showing based on the evidence that Zimmerman lost the fight with Trayvon and then shot him. This will not be defensible under self-defense or Stand Your Ground, and he will be charged with 2nd degree murder.
I guess you didnt read the statement from the witness "John" from day that saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and when he went upstairs to call 911 he's on the phone stating the guy that was on top is now dead.. I think the shot in his chest well be close up shot!!
and how in the hell do you know it was trayvon yelling for help. weird that a police officer wrote in his report that Zimmerman was upset that know one came to his aid when he was yelling for help. very weird but i guess because trayvons mom said it was her son it was Trayvon!!
we all know Zimm was a gung-ho want to be cop. He and his father have too many inconsistencies in their stories. We will never end racism in this country, however we need to realize that people are sick of it and just not going for it anymore. Zimm should have went on about his business when he was told to do so, however he did'nt,as a result we have two destroyed lives. He is guilty! Justice always prevails! God bless all you great americans.
And people don't lie I suppose?
Hey George Zimmerman, do you remember the two audio experts that already did a voice analysis and it was not you yelling for help. O wait, I guess you haven't had time to figure a way around that one yet.
The "stand your ground" law is totally asinine. How this scenario could not have been foreseen is beyond me. Essentially, it's a license to murder.
If you don't like your neighbor, wait until there are no witnesses, then shoot him, and claim you felt threatened.
Have an argument in a bar with some stranger over a girl you were both trying to pick up, and lose? Wait outside, follow the guy until he's alone, then shoot him, then claim you felt threatened.
Want to rob someone? When there are no witnesses, pull your gun on someone you know has cash, rob him, take his money, shoot him, plant a knife on him, then claim he tried to rob you, and you felt that your life was threatened, so you had to kill him.
Some have likened this to the old wild west, but this is much more dangerous. It's a law that should be repealed immediately. Only a moron could have thought this law would be a good idea. It's a license to kill thinly disguised as a law.
George Zimmerman-5714337 does not let a little think like facts get in the way of his manufactured versions of events. You twist the story just as bad as the media does. Let me debunk your "facts". First of all, how did the officer on the scene know who was yelling for help? O that's right, ZIMMERMAN TOLD HIM. Of course you should take the word of a man who just killed a unarmed person, what does he have to lie for? And this "John" person, do you even know who he is? He is just one more name that has been thrown out by the media and his story has yet to be confirmed by anyone in the know. Next...
ushouldhavelistenedZIMM- First of all I personally find your user name ridiculous. afraid to use your normal user name???? Or just new to the site and "think" your funny???? NOT. ???? how do you expect to end racism when you are in fact a racist??? Same question to Torian- You dont let a little thing like facts or your lack of them stand in the way of your manfactured, manipulated and malicious version of events. Little birdie whisper all the worlds truths in your ears??? FAT chance!!lmaoatu!!!
So "george", how do you shoot someone on top of you and you get out from under them and they end up on their stomach?
Hey Skrewd if you are going to accuse me of "manfactured, manipulated and malicious version of events" why don't you elaborate on the things that I said which are "manfactured, manipulated and malicious"? You are just spouting off at the mouth. Your last sentence lets me know your maturity level is that of a kid. Next..
And there is another eye witness who said after he heard the shot, he saw the guy on top get up and step away. Since Trayvon was dead, I don't think that he stood up.
Citizen X easy you blow their butt off you and they land on there gut.
Martin didn't have to have a weapon, he only needed to be cause bodily harm. That has already been through the courts in Collier County where student 1 is beating on student 2 and student 2 stabs s1 multiple times killing him. S2 got off on the stand your ground defense supported by a judge. Following, yelling and screaming is not an assault, hitting someone in the face is.
@Ari... your "speculations" are completely ungrounded. I can't even past point 3 before giving up on point 4 because your reasoning is so profoundly one sided. Keeeeryst! 1 + 1 does not equal your own homegrown attitude.
Torian Richardson AkA Smooth: The John he is talking about was actually interviewed on the news. We heard in his own words that Zimmerman was on the bottom and yelling for help. John replyed for them to Stop and that he was calling the police. He didn't say Zimmerman he said the Guy in the Red jacket.Which was zimmerman.
Even weirder that an officer "corrected" a witness who claimed it was Martin yelling for help.
KRedcorn... Thats what I saw and heard on tv. I didnt see a policeman in the picture,,Just the news reporter letting John do the talking.. He actually described what both were wearing. Im sure the lawyers will show that in the trial. and JOHN called 9 11 ..Thats also recorded... whats really weird is JOHNS MAMA now says JOHN SAW NOTHING......Fear ring a bell ???? If John says TM was on top..Im sure Al and JJ and the entire NAACP will be happy ...
George Zimmerman the hispanic kills black teen Trayvon Martin. I know hispanics don't like blacks and vice versa. Look at all the tensions in SoCal.
Your comment is exactly the stereotyping belief that adds to racial tensions in this country. You CAN'T be serious if you believe EVERY Hispanic person hates every Black person, and vice versa. That's ridiculous. (And George Zimmerman is multi-racial, by the way - hispanic and white). SOME of us understand that people are individuals, and see others as such; not simply what their race is.
Leave it to the trial. Do not attempt to determine the outcome of a jury's decision. They and only they will hear all the facts. If this had been a black on black or white on white or mexican on mexican; there would be no controversy, no assinine appearances by Jesse or Al or worse, the muslim president. This is a complicated murder trial and the "Stand your ground" is not the issue. It is solely whether the shooter felt he was in fear of his life after the teenager pounded on him or whether he should have let him run away and just called the police to pursue. Judging from what I have read of Zimmermans backround he should not have had a carry permit. That could be an issue. We need to let the courts do their procedures and see what the verdict is. Protests only show up the ignorance of the protesters and their lack of education.
@Charly...."protests only show up the ignorance of the protesters and their lack of education" or their lack of racism. You're a proud racist aren't you, Charly! Racists are the only ones who refer to our President as Muslim, and think Jesse and Al should be neither seen nor heard. WElcome to the 21st Century Charly....it's okay to take the white robe and pointy hat off now.
why doesnt anyone help out tjis white man?? www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwoEh-ZwlCI
Maybe that's something you should be asking this man's race? Where is the caucasian Al sharpton and jesse Jackson at, where is the caucasian protest? why is anyone of this guy's race not protesting? Please explain this to me if this is such a terrible hate where is that call for justice?
Why do you people waste your time posting on the internet on this instead of going out there on the street doing something about it? Why do you need another race to protest for you? Please again explain this to me.
Speculation and storytelling is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes, sadly, bad things happen and we may never know if Zimmerman acted out of malice or self defense. Sometimes bad people get away with things and good people get locked up for nothing. The first instinct of the prosecution is the best, and that was to not charge him. That speak volumes. Everything else is monday morning quarterbacking with an agenda.
Wrong Jim... the first instinct by the COP was arrest, he was overruled by the DA... that speaks volumes!!!
As you indicated, this is just speculation. So, let's leave it at that.
A few things are clear:
1) Zimmerman saw someone suspicious and called 911.
2) He apparently agreed in principle with them about not following.
3) Treyvon was shot.
4) Zimmerman had head injuries apparently received in a physical confrontation with Treyvon.
5) The police at the time felt that there wasn't enough evidence to detain him.
6) Treyvon had been suspended from school, and if his twitter profile is any evidence, carried an attitude.
What else happened in between the 911 and shooting has not been definitely determined in a court of law. You are just totally speculating on the rest and speculation is idle words into the wind. When information starts to come out in a trial, then we will have more of a basis to go on.
Re: evidence, just saying, I looked at evidence doesn't make the case for your speculation. If you are going to speculate and be taken seriously, you would need to indicate the evidence in question you are looking at and how it would point to your conclusion...
just like you are speculating about Trayvon's attitude based on the twitter profile a 17 year old boy. What because he had a pic of him with a grill in his mouth? or because he had a pic of him flipping of the camera? The facts are Zimmerman got out of the safety of his vehicle and followed someone who was doing absolutely nothing wrong and as a result of that ACTION some lost their life. If your child gets into a fistfight walking down the street and the other person pulls a gun and shoots your kid wouldn't you want an trial for the perp? I guess the angst of a 17 year old posted on a twitter account is some indication that he deserves to be shot? ZIMMERMAN should have STAYED IN HIS CAR.
The alleged pictures you are referring to are NOT the correct teenager. Those pictures have been proven to NOT be the victim in this shooting.
When Zimmerman is tried and acquitted will we get an apology from Sharpton and all the race-baiters?
Absolutely not RealAmericanNow. If Zimmerman gets off, it will be OJ trial all over again, just for different reasons. Zimmerman went after this kid because he decided that he fit the profile. This is about race and profiling. And Zimmerman needs to sit and jail and think about this for a very long time.
I doubt it, because the only race baiter's would be the media and people like you on these forums.
Despite Trayvon's "attitude", he (even as a minor) had an obligation to obey the law, and the law had an obligation to protect him. Sorry, but like it or not, Trayvon was an American citizen, and he had the same rights as any American citizen, despite the fact he didn't look or act like Richie Cunningham.
Keep in mind that the real point behind this entire tragedy is that a 17 year-old, unarmed minor was shot to death by a 28 year-old armed adult who claimed self-defense, but was not arrested. All evidence shows that this 17 year-old was only walking....not committing a crime or with any intention of committing a crime.
This shooting is a crime regardless if the shooting victim is a blond-haired, blue-eyed 17 year-old white male honor student from a wealthy family, or if the shooting victim is a 17 year-old, hip-hop listening, hoodie-wearing, saggin' pants sporting, bad grammar using geechie.
Cat-Well then who is the real Trayvon Martin?? He doesn't seem to exist in pictures past the age of 12?? Funny how there is another Trayvon Martin the same age and looks just about exactly like the real Trayvon. Wonder why the OTHER Trayvon collapsed his facebook and hasn't put up another stating who he really is??? Suppose the twitter account isn't his either???? Wonder if the defense team will investigate Martins past?? Why wouldn't anybody want the public to know everything and anything about the poor innocent little boy?? OOPS the little boy info was sort of put out but not the 17 year old info.
RealAmerica--What expect an apology form Sharpton and the gang?? Still haven't said sorry for the Duke incident.
TORian-seriously???? This case is in the hands of the court now. Why do you people continue to babble on endlessly when you have no real facts and won't be testifing in court?? Do you hope if you keep up your nonsense it will influence the jury in some way???? Trust me these posts here will be old, old news long before this case goes to trial so how about you get over your self and let the courts do the prosecuting???
Head injuries? We have the cops saying this-- the cops whose @$$ he and his father have been kissing for years. Head injuries and he gets out of the cop car and walks in a straight line? You can be sure it wasn't a brain injury-- his brains aren't between his ears.
Rich::: Trayvon had been expelled from school? WTF does his having been expelled have to do with this? Look at George Zimmerman's record of just the past few years-- he assaulted a COP for one thing. Real fine gentleman!
Yep I am dead serious Skrewd. But again, your entire statement after "Torian-Seriously" is just mindless babble which really does not even make sense. I said one sentence replying to this comment "When Zimmerman is tried and acquitted will we get an apology from Sharpton and all the race-baiters?" and you go off about me influencing a jury? Seriously your name fits you to the T my man.
Look up any teen profile on Twitter or Facebook. If you base your conclusions on that, at least 70% of them are gangsters and thugs, regardless of race. Teens are all about attitude. They always have been.
Allegedly. There's been no evidence of those injuries beyond the police report. They keep showing a mug shot of Zimmerman from a previous arrest. Why not show the pictures from that night? The video released is "too grainy to see the injuries." Or, maybe it's too grainy to tell that there were no injuries. He supposedly went to the hospital the following day to get treatment, so it should be easy enough to produce some record of that visit which would list any injuries. Why not release that report?
And even if he did have injuries, that proves what? That there was a confrontation. It does not prove who instigated that confrontation. I don't think Zimmerman set out that night to kill anyone. I certainly don't think this was premeditated, or even racially motivated. But I do believe he's guilty of manslaughter.
Talk about selective memory, Zimmeran while voicing agreement with the 911 directive to him to stand down, clearly, did not. Zimmerman pursued Martin who he said was running away from him. The voice heard on the 911 call crying for help was scientifically evaluated and determined not to have been Zimmerman. Those cries for help are ended by a gunshot. Martin is then found dead.The police wanted to charge and arrest Zimmerman. They were overruled. Then is when the political obstruction that brought us here began. The author of the "Stand Your Ground" law and the Governor that signed it both have said it does not have application to this "pursue and shoot" case. Those are facts already in evidence. The police didn't believe Zimmerman and neither did the prosecutor assigned by the Governor to handle the case. When Zimmerman testifies, as it seems he will....he'll hang himself.
Yep. He's gonna have to get up on the stand and testify as to why he thought using deadly force on a young teeanage boy, was the only solution. Why he thought someone talking on their phone and walking, was suspicious. Why getting into an altercation with someone was justified in his mind. Why he felt compelled to approach anyone, whom he felt was suspicious. Why did he make the comment on the 911 call, "They always get away". Who are "They"?
Sir mason, what is your point?? Everybody knows he will have to get on the stand and answer questions. Is your post supposed to show ominous danger to Zimmerman, that he'll be terrified at the prospect?? "They" most likely would have meant potential burgars as the neighborhood had recently had many problems. Why does anybody have to explain this?? It woud be obvious to a 1st grader. Just another hate baiter....blah,blah, yack, yackety, yack..........Move on.
skrewdworld::: You said that "they" most likely would have meant potential burgars (as you said). I guess "white boys" don't do things like break in and steal. No, YOU are a hate bater.
But YOU surmised what was meant by "they".
BTW--- WHAT would be obvious to a 1st grader? That YOU know as much as I do about it?
How big is this gated community? Could Z just have known that there were no kids that looked like Treyvon in the gated community? Is seeing some one out of place the same as profiling? Isn't the reason people move into GATED communities because just anybody is not suppose to be there? If you follow my boy and ask him what he is doing there, he damn well better answer you! Some of you seem to think its a crime to ask you what your doing! Had it done to me a ton of times when I was a kid.
Susie-Do you play dumb often? So I missed the L in burglar. You obviously got the meaning anyway and think your superior by pointing it out. Your also pretty good at "ASSuming waht other people think. When did I ever say that "white boys" don't commit crimes just like any other race of "boys". Why is it that I'm a HATER? Because my opiions differ from yours. Guess that makes you one too!!! The 1st grader statement doesn't need to be explained. You either get it or you don't. I think that you do.
First he shot an unarmed kid in the chest, now he'll be shooting himself in the foot. That hardly ever results in death, but at least he'll be put away to "recuperate" for quite some time.
Optimist-what a well thought out and intelligent post.
The key aspect of the case is whether Zimmerman chased Martin on foot after leaving his car. If Martin confronted Zimmerman when Zimmerman was chasing him, Martin was justified in using force and Zimmerman committed a crime by shooting him (murder or, more likely, manslaughter). But if Zimmerman left his car and did not chase Martin, but Martin confronted him and started beating him, Zimmerman acted in self defense and will be exonerated. That's the key to the whole case - did Zimmerman chase Martin or not.
I disagree, the critical point is who is screaming, which I think is a clear sign of retreat from the conflict, and places the blame on action from that point forward.
Not really, Andy. If zimmerman was being beaten and feared for his life he was justified in shooting in self-defense, Regardless of whether he pursued trayvon.
I totally agree with you. Problem is, it is one man's word against a dead man's word, not the ideal recipe for justice.
This is why stand your ground with deadly force doesn't work when there are no witnesses.
I took an CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) course here in Ohio back in February. Ohio CCW laws are very similar to Florida laws. In fact, completing the Ohio CCW course qualified me to apply for a Florida CCW license...which I now carry.
In the 12 hour course, we reviewed several scenarios. We were taught that if someone attacks you with a deadly weapon (gun, knife, etc.), deadly force will probably be a viable defense, but that will ultimately be up to the grand jury. However, we were specifically taught that if a guy is beating on you and you choose to draw and shoot, you will probably end up in prison. Deadly force can only be used if you were in fear of your life or serious bodily injury. Any deadly shooting is a homocide. Most likely, you will go before a grand jury. Your lawyer (which you should have on speed-dial BEFORE you obtain a CCW permit) must convince the jury that this homicide was justifiable by convincing them that your life was in danger or serious bodily harm was imminent. Seeing George walking into the policy station after the shooting kind of kills the "serious bodily harm" thing.
Nissan::: Thank you for noting that George walked into the police station kind of kills the "serious bodily harm" thing. It looked to me like he had NO difficulty getting out of the police car.
Hasn't it been said that Trayvon beat the s**t out of Zimmerman and broke his nose. He sure didn't move like he had been whupped, and either his nose wasn't broken or an invisible bandaid had been used to fake the injury to his nose.
If there was a confrontation/fight and TM had GZ on the ground...did TM notice the weapon and go for it? Regardless of what occurred prior...seeing someone going for your own weapon does make one fear for their life.
Susie...Why would EMTs treat a person at a scene if there were no injuries? I don't hold a medical degree and would never attempt to diagnose anything based on a grainy video...but thanks for your expert opinion.
Nissan and susie- How often do the two of you get "whupped" so that you know exactly how somebody who's been in a fight acts??? I have a nephew who was a ameteur boxer, personal trainer, and now is a mixed martial arts fight promoter and trainer of his team. People can get the holy heck whupped out of them and walk away after the match not looking like they'd took a good beat down at all. I've seen fights stopped to clean up busted lips, bloody noses etc..They clean it up and get back at the round. If it's too bad they stop the fight but after the one bleeding is with the rest of the team heading out of the locker room to go get some chow and a couple of beers.
In regards to the extent of ZImmerman's injuries. He may have felt he was in danger of serious bodily injury and or death while being pummeled and may have taken action before he was seriously beaten senseless and defenseless. Perception of his circumstances is what he may have acted upon before it was too late.
There also may have been an issue of his exposed weapon in his waistband possibly being taken away by Trayvon and used against him during the scuffle. Zimmerman alleged that Trayvon told him during fight he was going to die now or later tonight.
Lots of maybes and unconfirmed conclusions here just to show how anyone can perceive this case in so many different ways. No one knows for sure what actually happened during that scuffle except for Zimmerman and the eyewitness. The eyewitness to the scuffle and shooting will most likely be the key testimony supporting Zimmerman's self defense stance.There's no doubt all the facts and evidence will be revealed sooner or later in one way or another.
skrewdworld - Yeah, people who are used to fighting may be able to walk away after a fight. Was George Zimmerman a boxer? Even an amateur one? Did he train for fights? Do you really think an out-of-shape guy like Zimmerman could actually behave the way he did on those tapes after getting his nose broken and having his head repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk? Could you? Personally, I have some doubts.
I look forward to walking away from this case for a few days or weeks. The hate that boils out in all directions has to be poisonous even to read about. The editing for effect by the media is doing its job and continuing to stir up my emotions, and I don't like being played.
Am I the only one that is offended when unproven critical elements of one side of the case are presented as fact? All the media reports say something like, Trayvon was walking home. Purposeful walking isn't suspicious to any reasonable person. Zimmerman reports someone standing around, just looking around, who then spots Zimmerman watching him and runs, which I think any reasonable person would see as suspicious, but which version is true is NOT my point, my point is we don't know which is correct, but all the media reports the racist profiler version.
The same treatment is basically given to every critical element of the case, unproven allegation is shown as undisputed fact.
Despite how much that annoys me, I just can't believe we still don't have a solid forensic ID of the person crying for help on the 911 recordings.
Mikado Cat::: Zimmerman reports someone standing around, just looking around. Dam, is it against the law in Florida to stand and look around? I bet all the homes there are of the cookie-cutter type-- all look alike-- and it was possible that he was just trying to get his bearings straight. Places look different after dark-- or haven't you lived long enough to realize that. Especially if you don't live there day and night, 24/7.
Mikado Cat - We'll have to wait and see if the jury believes that Trayvon was just "standing around" in the rain. It will be Zimmerman's word against the word of Trayvon's girlfriend who was on the phone with him at the time. Let's see how it plays out. I'm sure the prosecution will call on her to testify.
Trayvon's murder at the hands of a trigger-happy, lookin' for a fight, hoodie-ragin', self-proclaimed judge jury and executioner nutcase who thought he could hide behind a Rednex interpretation of FL Stand Your Ground law is hardly an isolated incident in FL. It happens all the time, ref Miami Herald reporting. However, racist NW's all over this sorry country have been harassing and challenging people of color of all ages living in predominantly white communities. And, their local PD's shield them and continue to enable them to do this. Everyone I know knows at least one person who could have been Trayvon. What they say is: Trayvon took the bullet for me.
u ned to go to oder sites an read wat is bein said there. cnn,cnbc,beast, anys of dem, then u might git u head rite.
THE LAW IS CLEAR ON THIS ISSUE!! wat? gona lit da blks change the law juss for this incedent? WRONG! this stands if in i did dis to u in u r bakyard. an ifin u dit dis in my frontyrd i do da sam to u git blk babe!? thas wats dis laws was mads foo. jus dis kinda @!$%#s.lil bro initiation mabes.walk da line mabes?strut u stuff mabes? be wat is mabes?my moms caried a gun wen she on nehborhoody/watch in her hood/yard,at 79 yrs old. go moms. she dit not kar wat kolor u were eder. da prez snds.
Hey gangbanga wannabe, speak and write correctly or nobody pays your posts any attention.
Whether you're attempting to be an idiot, or you really ARE one, chucksteaksbfalo, your ebonics comments are pretty ridiculous. Grow up. The world could use another adult.
Rich Shepard - So if you're a teen growing up in this country who (1) ever develops an attitude (2) ever gets in trouble at school that gives the right for someone to follow you and kill you. Wow, just want to understand what other Zimm-extremist terrorists are lurking down my streets. I'd put about $10,000 that you've already been jailed for violent crimes or will be in the next year.
thanks rev. al sharpton and rev. jesse jackson. black america love you men. you keep outsmarting these white criminals, i mean white boys, and they cant do anything but bring up tawana brawly or you gentlemen love the camera.. white boys give up nobody is believing the hate you have for people of color specifically al and rev. jesse jackson and al sharpton are white boys kryptonite who keep exposing you guys inate hate for black people. also, thanks our black president obaman and your staff for helping put pressure on these crooks on the florida police dept. to bring fourth justice. the stand your ground law does not apply here becauses zimmerman was the aggressor after he got out of his vehicle and pursued trayvon. the media and white america are the ones who keep brainwashing people with this law. jeb bush and the senator who signed the bill for this law agreed. this law should not even be mentioned with this case at all. if so it should be applied with trayvon who had every right to stand his ground when he was being hunted down like an animal by zimmerman. also, zimmerman should have gotten first degree because this was premeditated. when he thought about chasing tray with his deadly weapon before he got out of his vehicle after the police instructed him not to proves this.
AL SHARPTON AND MR. PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR 2012. THAT WOULD BE THE BEST CHANGE IN AMERICAN HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In your dreams Keebarrr.
BTW Keebar...I wouldn't call Zimmerman white,just like President Obama isn't considered white.(both had a white parent)
The hatred is all on you, Keebob. You are much more racist than any white folks I know.
You don t have to be a legal expert to know Zimmerman is going to take the stand
I say it doesn't even make it to trial. Take a look at the affidavit Ms. Corey drew up. It does not match up to what we have seen or heard. Maybe Ms. Corey got the information from Trayvon's girlfriend. She was on the phone with him at the time, but she was not an eye witness. How does that work legal beagles?
1) She heard some of what was going on therefore she is a witness to what she actually heard (as opposed to what she was told on the phone). 2) There is a theory in law called the "outcry witness" which is a legal way around heresay when the victim can not speak for himself or herself. IF she heard Zimmerman confront Trayvon and Trayvon not responding in a manner that would be consistent with being menacing, she is an IMPORTANT witness. IF she heard Trayvon get verbally aggressive that would also be important. IF Zimmerman's account of what happened has changed over the 40+ days in such a way as to seem to want to bolster a fake claim of self-defense, that would be important. IF it has been consistent then that would be important.
I am not saying that I believe anything CLOSE to the truth has come out yet. The prosecution undoubtedly has quite a bit more of evidence that we have NO CLUE about. There may be witnesses who nobody in the media have spoken to.
I still predict that he will "lose" the preliminary hearing on SYG and will be bound over for trial but it won't get there. I think that the TRUTH is somewhere in the middle of what has come out and what has not come out yet. I believe that Zimmerman WILL plead guilty to a lesser charge. I wasn't there to be able to say what happened. But the girlfriend is very probably the closest to Trayvon having a voice in telling HIS side of the story. She can attest to what she HEARD over the phone - the sounds, any conversation she overheard etc.
Cat- I'm so very sure that we can absolutely count on the girlfriend to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help her god.
skrewdworld::: Just like the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that Zimmerman and his "witnesses" (who just came out of the woodwork like termites) will do?
That is nothing but BS,MS,PhD-- and I'm not talking about college degrees.
Gracie::: Oh, and Zimmerman had a couple of guys with him while he was stalking Trayvon? Trayvon's girlfriend heard him saying things to the other person-- she was there more than Zimm's witnesses were.
Gracie, I did read Corey's affidavit and was surprised about its brevity or shortness completely lacking any mention of a direct eyewitness to the shooting. The affivdavit is a "railroad job'' created to be one sided with the purpose of getting this case accepted by the Prelim judge for trial. Some of it was like the news from the lame stream media hype attempting to portray Zimmerman and the events as unfairly as possible.
It's a shame that politics from the Governor, Mayor and the Special Prosecutor has to take priority over fairness and unbiaseness. The affidavit is proof of how one sided this case may be should it be accepted to trial. Zimmerman's will have be at his very best on this one.
"Pull em out a truck hit em wit a brick and I'm dancin' " - Ice Cube - Predator
nojusticenopeace
Me and my kind are waiting
nojusticenopeacenoproblem
Zimmerman wont have to take the stand, clear and cut case.12 people well never agree that Zimmerman killed this kid on purpose .. period..
Wow.. this case gets better and better by the minute. They file murder charges based on conversation between Trayvon and his girlfiend thats in Miami.. LMAO and because Trayvons mother says it was her son yelling -- even funnier.. Then the affidavit states Zimmerman chased him down. Below is the actual 911 call from Zimmerman and clearly proves Zimmerman stoped chasing him . The tape clearly proves Martin had over 1 minute and 30 seconds to make it home and by the way his home was 100 yds away. So I guess a 6'0 160 lb football player from Miami cant run 100 yard dash in 1 min and 30 seconds.. LMAO.. This is a waste of taxpayers money. I can be GZ legal counsel and he'll be found not guilty. Listen to the tape and it proves the affidavit is a bunch of BS andi belive the prosecutor doesnt file because of media pressure!!!LMAO
PROOF ZIMMERMAN STOPPED PURSUING TRAYVON MARTIN AFTER BEING TOLD BY 911 OPERATOR!!!
For the last time, simply listen to George Zimmerman's 911 tape.
That tape proves the following:
1) Trayvon Martin had an 8 second (about 60 to 80 yard) head start before George Zimmerman left his SUV.
2) George Zimmerman only pursued Trayvon Martin for about 12 seconds.
3) George Zimmerman stopped pursuing Trayvon Martin within 2 seconds after the 911 operator told him that he didn't need to follow him.
4) Zimmerman then spent the next 1 minute and 30 seconds talking to the dispatcher not pursuing, during in which Trayvon Martin could have easily run FAR AWAY.
Don't believe me? Just go listen to the tape. Here is what you hear:
2.06 - 2.14:
Trayvon starts to run. Zimmerman still in his SUV.
2.14 - 2:26:
Zimmerman pursues Trayvon on foot.
2.26 – 2.29:
Dispatcher says that he doesn't need to follow. Zimmerman says "Okay". He is winded. And stops running.
2.27 - 4:11:
Zimmerman is stopped and catching his breath. He reports that the suspect "ran off" at 2:39. He is talking to the dispatcher for the next ONE MINUTE and THIRTY SECONDS.
If anyone can dispute these facts, please be my guest...
Simply go to the Zimmerman 911 call. The link is:
So what happened after that last 1 minute and 30 seconds?
If Trayvon ran away - doesn't that indicates that he was afraid and yet Zimmerman managed to find and corner him somewhere and then shoot him?
GeorgeZimmerman wrote, "Zimmerman is stopped and catching his breath. He reports that the suspect "ran off" at 2:39. He is talking to the dispatcher for the next ONE MINUTE and THIRTY SECONDS."
Well, someone shot the boy! So George, what happened after Zimmerman gets off the phone with 911? If Zimmerman didn't go after the boy, then who did. Someone chased the boy who "ran off" because his body was found dead, shot at point blank in the chest.
And, P L E A S E! Where do you get off calling Trayvon a SUSPECT? Suspect in what crime? So now it's a crime to be walking home from a store? And it's a crime to be afraid of a man you don't know who is following you for no reason?
Just as PJ says. Zimmerman had to have chased Trayvon down. You helped clear that one up yourself. Thanks for the information. Now I'm more certain than ever that Zimmerman is in the place where he belongs. JAIL.
Yes, the no limit n*** 17yo thats 6' 180lbs is scared of a chubby 5'5'' Mexican. O. K. WTF ever!
btw: I know you know what those *** mean ;)
Every minute Trayvon Martin grows taller and taller and gains more and more weight. You people are nuts.
Lmao consider-it, and the sad part is they don't even realize how foolish they sound.
Well Torian not quite as foolish as you and folks like consider-it sound.
yea consider-it, I think he was at least 6'5" and about 240. He could also run a 3.9 40 yd dash. omg it is horrible isn't there's no such thing as a victim anymore.
Skrewd, if you are going to "argue" (and I use that term very loosely here) against me in every post I make you are going to have to do better than posting irrelevant tidbits of, well essentially nothing....
GZ::: Where on God's green earth did you get all that? Or is that your story and you'll stick to that? You said that "he" said OK when the dispatcher told him to call it off. "He" has lied before, so why not this time.
I hope you get your story shoved up your arse-- along with a combat boot crosswise.
yea, i know what you mean. since he died his grades are getting better and he's become a model citizen. surely not the guy who was suspended for 10 days.
martin is the model of hope and change. oh wait...he may be obama's son.
There are no facts to dispute. LMAO
You didn't offer anything worth disputing. LMAO
You need to grow up and actually post something worth responding to. LMAO
Later, dude...
I heard 6'9" 290 lbs. Or was that Dwight Howard? So hard to tell when someone's wearing a hoodie.
Zimmerman is presenting an affirmative defense of self-defense. Thus, the burden of proving that he reasonably was in fear of his life IS ON HIM. This is not the usual situation where you have a defendant saying "it wasn't me, I wasn't there" where the prosecution has to show that the defendant was there and pulled the trigger. The defense STIPULATES that he pulled the trigger, but that it was as as result of someone performing a CRIME (assault/battery) and as such is justified. This means that the VICTIM'S presumption of innocence is what the DEFENSE must overcome. Zimmerman will have to take the stand in a trial if the pre-trial hearing on "stand your ground" fails to exonerate him. There are only two people who were there for the whole encounter, and one is dead.
I predict that the preliminary hearing will show that there is sufficient doubt about Zimmerman's actions to hold him over for trial. I further predict that Zimmerman cops a plea to a lesser charge.
I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on TV but I did take law classes while an undergraduate.
I don't even think there is a need to cop a plea. There is no case.
Cat-Was your grade a DUH-?? Nobody cares about your undergraduate law classes, your not an expert and your not testifing at the trial and your sure not prosecuting!!!!!!
skrewdworld::: Well, Cat is more of an expert than YOU-- or hundreds of others-- are. She might not be the expert you think you are, but I bet Cat understands more than YOU do about law.
Susie-Can't a defend herself? you feel the need to step in and castigate the big, bad ,bully? I wouldn't put a lot of money on that bet if I were you.
The prosecutor is going to have him for lunch and pick her teeth with his bones. This lady is no fool and has much more than shown so far. Think poker do you show your entire hand? The defence asked for the records to be sealed because they want this case tried in a court of law and not in the court of public opinion.
Have you ever heard of discovery? Go look it up. The prosecution has 15 days after arrest to turn over ALL evidence to the defense. This is jurisprudence, not a poker game or a TV show.
It's Zimmerman's right to a speedy trial also. Zimmerman has a great laywer.
Budd, they have to turn over what they have at time of arrest. If they develop anything AFTER arrest, then the prosecution only has to turn over EXCULPATORY evidence.
I think the truth has not be revealed yet. I think Zimmerman WILL plead to a lesser charge and it will never get to trial.
Got 3 words for you WelDum-YUM UM. NOT.
Cat-Go back to law school. You may be right, but you may be wrong. Only fools rush in.
skrewdworld::: Cat may be right but may be wrong. That is correct-- the only fool rushing in is YOU! I guess you don't understand the legal terms that Cat is using. Sorry they are longer than three letters.
Susie-Do you truly think your condesending attitude and down talk really bother me?? Just excercising my right to express my opinion same as you. Must be nice to be delusional enough to think that your opinion or writing style is better than anybody elses. Sorry you failed to get the invitation to bring some musical humor to a humorless conversaton. Honestly, cat took some law classes big deal, hardly makes her an authority or the last word on anything.
Budd
I said she had not shown her entire hand for the purpose of getting the charges to be held up for trial, I fully realize now she has a given period of time to share the evidence she currently has with the defense, and to provide them with any evidence found later in an appropriate period of time. I have been involved in a homicide case as the step father of a murdered child. I know how the process works first hand.
It's baffling why the Media keep bringing up Stand Your Ground. My understanding is the law covers a "dwelling" including a back porch and a vehicle, as being inside a vehicle. I have not read or heard anything about the great outdoors, so to speak. So, in my own mind I guess it helps the Media if they do "add-on" to keep more view ins and more reading on their websites. Now add on that the preponderance of what we've heard speaks more to the fact Martin was the one in the Stand Your Ground defense. Zimmerman does not want to take the stand anyway as some have said he would have to if he defends himself with this law. Taking the stand for Zimmerman is akin to a "death wish" as in more time added. There are other self-defense laws which are much safer for him to use. Like I say bringing up this law is a media hype thing. Zimmerman has messed up so much in this, that if I were him I would take a plea. He doesn't want to get caught in any lies while being tried and he's bound to be caught lying. Some of the People defending him in the media have hurt him immensely with some outrageous statements. Shaken Baby Syndrome, One more blow to the head, and he's wearing diapers, he never followed Martin and never confronted him, and he was the one crying for "help". Sanford Police trying to protect him will be brought out, as what they failed to do to him but did to Martin, and trying to sell the Stand Your Ground Law which doesn't apply. So, I say to Zimmerman take a plea and don't get more time added on. The best he can hope for is a hung jury and then the process starts all over again. His background of violence is another factor, and one story which did not get much air time was that he picked up a girl and threw her wherein she sprained her ankle. He was working as a House Party Bouncer. The guy working with him said in so many words George was a "control freak" and could go off anytime. So, I repeat he should take a plea and be done with this. Here's why, I think the plea will be a good one... just to get this over with. I think he will be offered much fairer jail time if he cooperates.
Just open a browser and search - search for Florida stand your ground law (I posted a link but I guess they delete links here).
Two different laws in Florida, nadeltanz. There's the "Castle" law, which covers people on your property or in your home, and there's "Stand Your Ground," which covers confrontations anywhere else.
GeorgeZimmerman5714337
Don t get yourself nervous, if this lawyer is as good as they say things should be fine
I think the prosecutor acted to stop public violence, which may have professional and/or ethical issues, but is none the less a very practical solution to a serious problem.
In the SYG hearing before a judge the defense needs to show a preponderance of the evidence supports the claim of self defense, which is "more likely than not", 51% chance, a very low threshold. What is not clear to me at all is to what degree of scrutiny the evidence is given and what sort of evidence applies.
Self defense in the full trial is the normal situation where the prosecution must show beyond a reasonable doubt, and the defense need only create a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman may have been acting in self defense. I don't see this happening without new evidence or new finding on existing evidence that isn't public yet.
I suspect it is going to be quiet soon with no leaks prior to action in the court, instead of the daily frenzy and revelation.
To your last line-let's hope so.
With the prosecution claiming that Zimmerman provoked the attack SYG would not apply.
see this link and wonder is it De Ja Vue
I love the way all of you people defending Zimmerman are hard at work on your spare time fabricating "facts" and concocting what you consider feasible scenarios in order to show Trayvon as the guilty one. You are all so ridiculous. Such nonsense.
None of you allows for the REAL and known facts in this case. It's like you are rooting for Zimmerman to be vindicated because you just can't believe there is a good and decent young black boy in existence in this world. You actually sound like a lynch mob. The only problem is your trying to lynch a dead boy! Sick and twisted, don't you see?
I for one can't wait to see what actual evidence the prosecution has and the results of the autopsy. The rest of you have a blast making stuff up. Crazies.
Whats Trayvons twitter accout name? decent black boy, pfhhtttt, whatever. You people have picked the wrong person to back, to use as an excuse to show the rest of the world who is really the racist!
I already know you'll say the trial is fixed, because he'll definitely get off. Mark my words, I know you'll never believe it. You have too much racial hate!
whosworld. I actually have faith in our justice system. And I therefore have not formed pre judgement in this case. And I really don't know what Trayvon's twitter account is named. Why should that matter? Why are there double standards for black boys compared to white boys? I know a few so called decent Christian white boys with some nasty satements posted on their twitter accounts as well as Facebook. I know they are trying to look cool. I don't like it. It just doesn't matter though.
I would bet that if Trayvon were a white boy, you'd be singing a different tune here. But then if Trayvon were a white boy, there most likely would have been an investigation at the time of the murder and and arrest as well.
It's not my fault there is so much raceism within all of these comments. I'm just about calling it as I see it. And raceism is very clear. I wish that were not true. I thought we were done with that but I was wrong.
consider-it
"IF Trayvon was a white boy you'd be singing a different tune here", UM no, I supposes you think we'll never have a black president too?
"It's not my fault there is so much raceism within all of these comments. I'm just about calling it as I see it" You're turning into a Racial thing. You think its about RACE and I dont!
TO be clear I think its about a thug against a overzealous HISPANIC cop want a be that was packing because he deals with F'in Thugs, you know negative people. I think mr. no limit n*** clocked him like he did that bus driver and George shot trayvon.
Be prepared for a not guilty verdict, get your riot face ready. I'm psychic
And I think it's about an innocent young man walking home from the store being murdered by a man armed with what he considers to be a license to kill. A gun and a defective law. A man with a violent past and a documented hair trigger temper, out that night hunting. A man who should not have been given that license to carry a concealed weapon because of his record.
consider-it
Lets compare your two posts.
"It's like you are rooting for Zimmerman to be vindicated because you just can't believe there is a good and decent young black boy in existence in this world"
"And I think it's about an innocent young man walking home from the store being murdered by a man armed with what he considers to be a license to kill."
You obviously think its about race, this is from your earlier post. Funny now how you omitted the color of his skin. You could work for the media! Notice how he's now a young man, but say he's a boy in an earlier post. Again deceptive.
What violent past? I snap from time to time. No limit N*** past is more violent. And he was out hunting law breakers not blacks! HE has black friends(PROVEN, video statements), he has mentored black youths. Save the race hate marches until you've researched this a bit better!
BTW, Do you think the neighborhood watch deals with nice people or negative people? Like cops they deal with the negative side of society.
Oh brother! Sighhhhhhhhhh. At the age of 17, one could say Trayvon was a boy or a man. It's a matter of NOTHING WHAT SO EVER! No wonder you can't understand the media. They talk too fast for you.
ANd from your post, "Do you think the neighborhood watch deals with nice people or negative people? Like cops they deal with the negative side of society." Zimmerman was not a cop. He was a hunter. He was out there looking for a victim. But Trayvon was NOT from the "negative side of society". How many times do you need to be shown the facts before they sink into your thick skull? He came from a good family. He was a good kid. Boy, Man. All the nonsense about the photos of him is just ridiculous. I just watched a slide show of his photos on the internet. The pictures were from when he was a baby through to the latest photos of him. He's fishing with a big grin showing off his catch. He was playing in the snow, also with a big sweet grin. He was showing off a t-shirt. He was huggin his father and getting a kiss on the cheek from his dad. He was doing all the same things my own kids did. Just a normal kid. Not a bad kid. Get that out of your head. He was NOT a bad kid. He was doing nothing wrong! What is wrong with you that you can't comprehend that. HE WAS WALKING HOME FROM THE STORE! For God's sake. You have this boy/man convicted of something. Whatever you think he did. You want us to accept that his killer was in the right. I suggest you watch some actualy video of the parents of Trayvon. They are good people. They wouldn't have raised a hoodlum. I know a thing or two about people. I've been around a long, long time and I've seen evil and I've seen good. I know the difference.
I am no saint. But at least I know right from wrong. It's wrong to give Z a pass on murder because as you say he was "out hunting criminals". Just as I said. You are correct. BUT TRAYVON WAS NO CRIMINAL!! He had no business being OUT HUNTING CRIMINALS! He was a neighborhood watch member. They do not "hunt criminals"! They are trained to observe. Never to confront. So even IF Trayvon had been doing something wrong, which it is a fact that he was NOT, Zimmerman should never have confronted him. The neighborhood WATCH is just that. A WATCH IS JUST THAT!
I guess you knew Trayvon personally as you know he was a good kid and came from a good family. I'm not saying he came from a bad family but I don't know them and neither do you. - How many parents raise their children to be hoodlums, I'm sure very few but unfortunately many still become hoodlums. - Zimmerman wasn't hunting criminals and no where does it say that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, he was doing what he does. Watching him, calling the police. Please show me where it says he confronted him.
Fixed it for you.