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U.S. Forest Service
Hikers found dead cows inside this U.S. Forest Service cabin, located in the mountains near Aspen, Colo. The outline of one carcass is seen through the doorway.
Granted, the U.S. Forest Service usually has bigger issues to deal with, but this got its attention because of its rather unique nature: How to dispose of six frozen cows stuck inside a Forest Service cabin, and more scattered outside, at 11,200 feet elevation?
And, no, this is not a hypothetical: In late March snowshoers who had hoped to use the cabin at Colorado's Conundrum Hot Springs found it already occupied -- by dead cows, which had apparently gotten out of the cold but were too dumb to find the exit, the Aspen Daily News reported.
The options now being weighed include: blowing up the carcasses; burning the cabin (and carcasses); or hauling the carcasses out with a helicopter or wheeled vehicle.
A final decision might be a few days away, but the newspaper quoted Forest Service spokesman Scott Snelson as saying "we need to dispose of them sooner rather than later" because the hot springs might become polluted if the carcasses are allowed to thaw and decay.
Manure is already all over the hot springs and the cabin is filled with it, Jeff Malin, a Boulder resident who hiked to the site, told the newspaper. "They obviously spent a lot of time there," he said, calling it a "real mess."
The site is 8.5 miles from the Aspen area in the Maroon Bells-Snowmass Wilderness Area.
Using helicopters is probably too expensive, and trucks are usually barred from formal wilderness areas, the Associated Press cited Forest Service spokesman Steve Segin as saying.
The Forest Service does sometimes use explosives to destroy carcasses that can't be retrieved. "We've used them as a means of disposal to remove dead horses, elk and other animals," Segin noted.
As for where the cows came from, the Forest Service said they were part of a herd of 29 that went missing last fall from the nearby Gunnison National Forest.
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Burn the cabin. By the time explosives are used, or a helicoptor or wheeled vehicle is used, many expenses will be incurred. If a new cabin is built, the cost might equal the costs used to dispose of the beasts...besides...even if it is 'roughing' it up there...I don't think I'd want to spend a night in a cabin that was once lived in by cows..even if it was cleaned up.
Take the cabin apart, use the pieces to build a new one nearby and bury the remains. Or cut up the carcasses into manageable pieces while still frozen and carry them to a suitable location and burn them or bury them. Ask for volunteers to do the work. Why is this even news?
Just dump the carcasses somewhere where nature will take care of them in a natural way. No need to waste tax payer money on elaborate disposal methods... even burning is unnecessary.
It sounds like Rontron has the best solution. Just be sure and add a door next time. Also there is nothing wrong with eating frozen beef. You could live a long time out there on B.B.Q. steaks.
My stomach is saying FiveGuys Burgers n Fries for lunch after reading so much about dead cows.
Seriously...this is NEWS? or a 'problem'? we can send a man to the moon but don't know how to get frozen dead cows out of a cabin??? eve rhear of a chainsaw???
No need to use explosives, simply send a large excavator. The excavator would rip the cabin open in minutes and have no problem lifting the livestock, carrying it to a location, digging the appropriate ditch and dumping the dead livestock in and covering them over. Then burn the remains of the cabin.
The other point to ponder is. . . . .
A lot of states don't bury the road kill. They find it is far better to put the carcasses in a place not normally accessed by people and let the scavangers feast. Because of this quantity, they would need several remote locations. Next time you are on a highway, you might notice the scavengers circling isolated high spots in the median of the highway. That is probably a dumping location for the road kill.
Miguel....you have obviously been raised in the city. The cows could easily 'find their way out'...lets look at the facts...they are over 11,000 feet and there is several feet of snow. Cows can sustain almost any cold as long as they have food which generates HEAT. With no food they cooled off (NOT starved) and died.
I think in a wilderness area you can't use many modern items like, chainsaws, trucks, dozers or excavators and other power equipment. Maybe no electricity even. I doubt if the helicopter can touch the ground. For some reason explosives are allowed. It still seems to me the carcasses could be pulled into the forest and let mother nature take control. Same with the manure. After all, where does a bear poop?
Whatever is done, the U.S. Forest service should make damn sure that the rancher who lost those cows pays for their disposal and cleanup. Ranchers are the first to rail against aid to families with dependent children, but they're the first to line up at the feeding trough when it comes to taking federal subsidies.
make pink slime. . . or would it be brown?
Concur: They have to burn it...all the waste...the carcasses...gotta burn it and get rid of it.
yea blow them up...good idea at the same time cause an avalanche and spread pieces of dead cow hundreds of feet into the air raining down around the area. ... seriously just burn it after a good rain... I know its not as fun as using explosives but save them for the range.
Find out who owns the cows and tell them to get them out. The cows will probably have a brand on them. Tell the owners to remove them in a timely fashion or they will be charged $$$ per day if they are not removed by a certain time. The cows are private property and the owners are responsible for them, even is death. Obviously they were not removed with the rest of the herd and were abandon. The rancher still collects money (from USDA) for depridation of lost cattle.
Did anyone actually read this article?! The cabin is located at 11200 feet on a hiking trail. Even if excavators were allowed in wilderness area (which they are not), it would be impossible to get one to the cabin. The main concern is that the cattle will decompose and contaminate the hot springs, so letting them decompose naturally at this location isn't an option. To prevent contamination from water runoff, the cattle will have to be brought down to a significantly lower altitude.
Also Randy is right, chainsaws are not allowed in wilderness areas, so that option is out of the question as well.
Burn the cabin and everything inside. There is no telling how long they have been in there
A chainsaw is out of the question but they are considering these options?
I would not put it past the Forest Service to be that dumb, but would say that they could make an exception in this case.
Maybe the rancher should be responsible for his livestock
The rancher should be billed after the cabin has been set on fire and a new cabin built.
Burn the cabin, add a little BBQ sauce, and bon appetit! :)
Maybe they should have installed a door on the cabin.
I doubt the cattle were allowed on that land and the owner should indeed be fined, not only for illegal grazing, but for damaged property.
We always have trouble with ranchers "loosing" "losing" their cattle on our local Refuges.
The cattle probably escaped from a feed lot, trying to range free like their ancestors did.
They did not "escape from a feed lot". They were free-range grazing in a National Forest (where it is allowed) and they wandered into the Wilderness Area (where livestock are not allowed - but there are no fences to keep cattle out.)
After living on the open range to a certain size, the rangy cattle would be sold at auction. A feed lot operator would buy them, where they would be fattened up for market.
A door on the cabin would had been benefical. I will admit growing up on a dairy farm, cattle are not the brightest creatures.
I suspect they just tried to get out of the cold and ended up dying with no food and water. That many cattle in that small of a structure could had heated it enough to keep themselves alive with their own body heat.
Burning it would really be the best solution as far as structure, effort of removal and manure. Hey government agency: try a door the next time around.
What about try making cattle ranchers buy their own land for raising cattle... Oh wait, nobody actually wants to start paying more for beef...
I bet the door was the reason the cows were unable to get out. Probably had some careless hikers used the cabin and left without properly latching (or even closing) the door. Then the weather got bad which lead the missing cows to search for shelter. One of the cows pushes the door shut trapping them inside, boom, death by starvation (although those outside the cabin apparently didn't fare much better). I have never heard of a back country forest service cabin without a door, but since it was a government agency that automatically means they were 'too stupid' to put a door on a building. Does that about cover your mindset?
Cattle ranchers would buy the land, if the government would sell it to them. The government lays claim to 97% of Western land, though it did nothing to justify such a claim. It refuses to sell it, won't develop it, and generally makes like a dog in the manger about it.
Can they charge them rent?
Charge the permittee. It's his fault he lost his own cows!
The rancher will, more likely than not, be reimbursed.
Nooo, let's hope not. He could only be reimbursed if the cows were on his land and killed by a wild animal... or other such "nature" incident caused by outside forces on his land.
If he was allowed to graze there then it would be.... attacked and killed by... cabin. So you could be right.
You are aware that, generally, cattle are raised on public lands? Ranchers don't usually have their own land. They lease public, usually National Forest lands, for next to nothing. All those Montana ranchers bit-ching about wolves, yeah, mostly NOT on their own land but on adjacent Nat. Forest lands... And yes, they do get reimbursed.
Wow, really? Generally are raised on public lands? Dang, I can't wait to tell my clients that those thousands of acres that they own or rent should have been provided for free from the government! Looks like there will be a lot of reimbursement from the government this summer!
Seriously though, only a small percentage of rangeland grazed by cattle is public land. The vast majority is owned or rented by ranchers, and when predators are killing calves on private property, there is definitely justification for control.
Truely not a news item.
I doubt the rancher would give too hoots about this incident. It was a bad storm and livestock die. It is part of doing business. The rancher shouldn't be charged a dime either. The cabin should had been secured.
There are numerous types of animal eaters out there that will eat frozen meat, fresh meat and or rotting meat. More deer than that die every year in most areas. It is taken care of by nature. Not a biggy.
Burn it & throw a BBQ for all the local skiers
As much as I love using emulex & prima cord to resolve issues I honestly doubt it would resolve this one. Blasting would take a dozen problems and make them 40 dozen smaller problems scattered over a larger area. Traditional fire would be hard to keep burning long enough to quickly destroy the tissue & bone enough to prevent disease issues. I would have to suggest Thermite or White Phosperous. It worked great on the vietnamese, it should work on a few bovines, especially since they are not running and screaming..hehe.
Thermite & white phosperous (willy pete for you vets) burns hot enough to melt steel in seconds, works when wet and wont go out as long as fuel is there. It should destroy the entire cabin site with no remaining elements to poison or contaminate the water.
Are you seriously entertained by the notion of blowing up Vietnamese people? Because you sound like you are.
No, it sound more like he is entertained by the idea of burning them to death running and screaming...
He might just be venting that way to distract himself from the horrible atrocities the Vietnamese committed -ie setting punji pits, removing body parts, jamming bamboo wedges up toe/fingernails, etc.
Azrancher - By far, yours is one of the sickest comments I've read in a while and trust me, there are plenty of sickos on here!
a team of horses will pull them out easily. remember cowboys ? they are still out there. burning the cabin would do nothing to the thousands of pounds of frozen carcasses. get real.
Wow. This is about the lowest I've heard from Azrancher.
Well Pardon Me for offending your virgin white morals, maybe after you have a few hundred or so attempt kill you then you may develop a jaded outlook on certain things too. I just never had the luxury of a safe cozy protected lifestyle that promotes a warm fuzzy outlook on everything. Must be nice!
Whatever were you thinkg? That is clearly a case for Killer Junior not WP.
How about making the rancher pay for the extraction rather than letting taxpayers bail out ranchers yet again?
Right on there! If they wore my brand then they are my problem, not anyone else's.
I garuntee you if they were alive and in possession of some one else the owner would scream for them to be returned to him.
Stand up and take responsibility. Some of these shade tree permit grazers want the profit without the work and give real ranchers a bad name.
After all that hiking, I'll take mine medium rare, thank you very much.
It amasses me the stupidity of the people that write comments with no idea as to a solution to any problem. It also shows how stupid agencies of government are. It is a simple problem to solve. Use a tractor with a bucket and haul all the cattle down stream from the water and let the bears and other wildlife have a nice diner. Now to solve the other problem FIRE the U.S. Forest Service personnel that can't seem to solve a simple problem and hire some new personnel.
Two words: motorized vehicle. Take a look at the USFS guidelines and you'll see why your idea is truly not an idea at all. Besides, the area is accessible by HIKING to it. If it was a paved road with easy access none of this would be an issue in the first place.
If you're going to make a hobby of criticizing the Forest Service, you may want to become familiar with the area and the process involved. Take a moment to do some researcy...you'll be AMAZED!!
All forest areas have access roads of some sort. If this was really a problem they would have already been in there with some sort of vehicle to get them out and bury them.
This cabin is over 8 miles from a trailhead and there are land slides, stream crossings and many other obstacles to pass along the way. Few (if any) useful motorized vehicles can get to this area. Dragging them downstream is not a viable solution, as this would just move the rotten stench down the hiking trail and poison the water that eventually flows to the Colorado River. I am positive blowing it up is not really being considered. Burning may be a consideration, but this area is used by dozens of people daily during the peak summer months, with many people camping overnight and skinny dipping in the remote hot springs. The cabin (which may have some historic value) is not relied upon for shelter, generally. Helicoptering seems like the best solution. I doubt it will even be that expensive. The cows don't have to be taken far, and if a little ground work is done in advance, they can probably relocate 3 cows an hour. The main problem will probably be that the bodies have probably decomposed somewhat already (even at that elevation the temperatures fluctuate enough to allow them to deteriorate) so they may not stay in one piece as they are lifted from a chopper. Good Luck Forest Service... seems like a smelly job.
Lisa Ann - you don't get in the mountains much, do you. Maybe you could book a vacation on a working ranch that trails cattle into the mountains this summer. It can take days to move herds into the high country. It's a bit more remote than your subdivision.
And for those throwing stones at the rancher.. This represents a significant financial loss. All ranchers make head counts when they do their roundup in the fall when the snows start to push the cattle down to lower elevations. They will ride for days, or even weeks to try to find the missing cattle. Apart from the financial value, livestock owners have considerable feelings and sense of duty to care for their animals. I've helped ride with neighbors to try to locate missing stock as high into the range as the snowfall would allow.
As for the Forest Service, well I suspect their IQs would rank quite competitive among the posters on Newsvine.
Everyone in here spouting what they think are easy solutions are amusing. Do you imagine that you all have a better idea of what to do than the locals, the rancher, or the agency officials who know this area like the back of their hands? Do you imagine that this would be on a national news website if it were as easy as half of you are claiming?
Idiots.
viking039 - yes, it also amazes me how quickly ignorant people are to criticize the comments of others when they have no clue themselves. The definition of "amass" is "to accumulate or assemble a large quantity of", Einstein. As the saying goes, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Until you can write correctly, don't criticize others for being stupid.
Hey, MSNBC writer...the correct term is "disappeared" or "vanished". This is the USA. "Went missing" is a British idiom that is not used in this country.
ABCzyx - I think American English speakers can grasp the meaning of the phrase "went missing", regardless of the fact that it's a British idiom.
This is such a JOKE! All they need to do is let the predators dispose of the mess, cyotes if nothing else will take care of it-- they will be left only with a few larger bones, otherwise bears, cats, buzzards.... But then they wouldn't have the opportunity to squander $10k.
Did you read the article? A) The predators probably won't bother to venture into the cabin. B) The carcasses are still frozen. C) The forest service wants to destroy the carcasses before they thaw so that the hot springs don't become contaminated with the biological matter.
I hope this enlightens you. Have a lovely day.
Crying shame,
Nonsense! Predators/scavengers WILL find and dispose of them in that environment along with the thaw, and the 'bio-hazard' is trivial if not total BS even if they didn't. Animals die in the forest every day, always have and little goes to waist. I have lived in these environments and I know better--this is such a NON-issue.
I hope this enlightens you from a country bumpkin-- have a nice day in your city.
BBQ!!!
Hmmm? Maybe a chainsaw would help? Since they are frozen, cut them into smaller pieces and you can feed a family of four for a year or two?
Great Idea. Don't have to worry about slime..
Just install a door and leave them there, make it a tomb, then turn it into a tourist attraction: "Six Cows Tomb"
Rob, that was weird, but it made me laugh.
Great idea Rob...
Remember the scene from National Lampoon's Vacation with Chevy Chase? he stands there with his wife at the Grand Canyon for about 10 seconds...then gets back in the car...
Six Cows Tomb...Love it.
Let the scavengers scavenge them. Like it's been done since time began.
Once again...
Did you read the article? A) A lot of predators probably won't bother to venture into the cabin. B) The carcasses are still frozen. C) The forest service wants to destroy the carcasses before they thaw, so that the hot springs don't become contaminated with the biological matter.
Chainsaw should do the trick!
A snowmobile, a sled, flat shovels, a chainsaw and a lighter. Pretty easy as there is quite a bit of wood in that area. It would be a bit of work but if you gave me $25k I'm sure with 4 strong boys it would be done right in a couple of days and the cabin would be fine... hell, I'd even install a custom door on the cabin.
I would guess that if they froze to death their meat is still frozen. If so, why not turn this into a money maker by selling the cows to packing houses or donating it to charilty? No need to destroy the carcasses if they are frozen.
It is very likely that these cattle are half rotten already. The average body temperature of a cow is between 101 and 103, given that there were six cows likely snowed into the cabin by a drift that formed in front of the door prohibiting escape - and trapping the ambient heat generated by the more than 3000 pounds of 101 degree mass, i would suspect that it took several days for the carcasses to actually freeze after they died.
It is rather likely that the cabin and its surrounding ground is very contaminated already and apart from a “scorched earth” quartering the carcasses and moving them while still frozen to a number of locations for the scavengers seems to be the best option. Explosives will only spread the mess more in a localized area from the blast and would not specifically sterilize the environment.
Build a giant blender and turn them into Pink Slime!
Oh, I forgot. There isn't much of a market for that anymore.
Has anyone stopped to consider that your drivel/banter is an extension of the starving, freezing death of living, breathing creatures? To the person who commented on the time the cattle had spent in the cabin; The fact that they were starving and freezing to death never entered your vacuous head, did it? There's not an obvious drop of compassion among you. To the person who declared that she wouldn't want to spend the night in a place where cows stayed; assuming you're not Christian, since rumor has it that Christ was "stabled" with the livestock. Suppose you've never been THAT cold and hungry....good for you. And to the chainsaw, gasoline, MF Thermite solutions....aw just flip off, you bunch of Wankers!
www.petakillsanimals.com
Let me tell you something, anne. I almost died from hypothermia when I was 11 years old. After the tingling and burning numbness goes away, and you are in the last stage of hypothermia, you no longer feel pain. You actually start to feel warm and are overcome by drowsiness, then simply fall asleep. There really isn't much suffering involved. Being revived from that state, on the other hand, is a long painful process and I'm lucky I didn't have any frostbitten fingers or toes.
As for the frozen cows...
Mmmmmm.... Beefcicles.
I agree Anne for some compassion for these animals - cold, hungry. I hope Justin is right and that death was quick and painless. I stopped eating meat because of the ugly inhumane treatment we visit on food animals. Those of you who will respond with your snarky beefcicles remarks, go ahead, enjoy your meat, all the way down into your cancer-ridden colons, your clogged arteries and your beefy pot bellies.
Ever hear of a chain-saw? Try putting a door on the damn cabin!
Do nothing! The carcasses will be cleaned by predators within a month. Cidiots want to spend tax money to do what nature can handle in a couple of weeks.
BULL. That is silly to say the cows could not get out when there were dead outside also. The rancher neglected them by not providing their basic needs.
the 'rancher' obviously did not know where they were...cows in the area are free range..they are released in the spring and rounded up in the fall. These poor souls were missed. happens........
LEAVE IT...put food and water in it and next year your cows wont die.
water?? in the middle of winter?
I don't know about the rest of you all, but i feel so sorry for the poor cows. They sought shelter because they were cold, and found some shelter, but then got trapped. Animals ...even cows have a sense of fear big time, and it was an awful way to die, and yet they seem to be just the butt of jokes. seems sad and and odd to me.