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Martin Von Krogh / for msnbc.com
American citizen Yonas Fikre has spent the past seven months in Stockholm, Sweden, where he is seeking asylum.
An American citizen who alleges that he was detained and tortured overseas at the behest of the U.S. government — and is now marooned as a result of the U.S. no-fly list — has filed for political asylum in Sweden, he announced with his lawyers on Wednesday.
Yonas Fikre, 33, says he spent more than three months in a Dubai detention center in 2011. In a lengthy Skype interview with msnbc.com, he described sleeping on the concrete floor of a frigid jail cell, and enduring regular interrogation, beatings and stress positions that caused him to collapse or black out.
He was released in September, he says, but is just now going public with his story.
Fikre’s ordeal took place outside the United States — far from his home in Portland, Ore. — but he and his American lawyer say they believe it was orchestrated by the FBI in connection with an investigation in Portland. And they maintain that Fikre’s inclusion on the no-fly list — which bars him from boarding U.S.-bound flights — has been used as a tool to coerce information, not because he presents a risk to U.S. flights.
"There is a practice and policy by the FBI to gratuitously deny the rights of American Muslims, particularly naturalized immigrant Muslims when they want to get more information," said Thomas Nelson, a Portland attorney representing Fikre. "In the case of Mr. Fikre … we believe and will allege that they also engaged in torture by proxy. This is shocking. This is a dark day for America."
Limited scope of no-fly list
The government, citing security reasons, will not say why any individual is on the no-fly list or even confirm that they are included. However, the names are rigorously screened and regularly reviewed, according to a spokesman at the Terrorist Screening Center, a division of the FBI that maintains watch lists.
The Department of Justice reviewed Fikre’s case in response to a complaint from Nelson on behalf of Fikre and two others clients on the no-fly list, and said that it did not find cause for action.
"Based on our review, we have concluded that no action by this Office is warranted," said a letter from the department’s Office of Professional Responsibility dated March 28. “We are referring your correspondence to the FBI’s inspection division for whatever action it deems appropriate."
In this Skype interview with msnbc.com reporter Kari Huus, Yonus Fikre describes the mental abuses and lack of medical attention he says he experienced while detained for over three months in Dubai. He spoke from Stockholm, Sweden, where he has applied for political asylum.
Security experts say the intent of the no-fly list is quite limited — to protect U.S. aviation from attack.
"Its principal purpose is to keep certain people who have been identified off of U.S. airlines. … It doesn’t involve arresting people," said Brian Michael Jenkins, senior adviser to the president of the Rand Corp., a security think tank, and former member of the White House commission on aviation safety and security. "It is not a fugitive list."
He said it would not be surprising if law enforcers used getting off the no-fly list as an inducement for recruiting informants, but it would be considered an abuse if they were included on the list in order to pressure them.
The FBI office in Portland said it could not discuss specifics of the case, due to protections provided to Americans by the U.S. Privacy Act.
"I can tell you that the FBI trains its agents very specifically and very thoroughly about what is acceptable under U.S. law," said Beth Anne Steele, spokeswoman for the FBI Portland field office. "To do anything counter to that training is counterproductive — we risk legal liability and potentially losing a criminal case in court."
The problem for Fikre and others is that there is no way to dispute the information that put them on the list in the first place.
Nelson says Fikre’s ordeal fits a pattern among Muslim Americans, including several clients, who discover they are on the no-fly list while they are out of the United States — and are then asked to submit to questioning, with no access to legal counsel, in return for their travel rights.
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Far-flung FBI encounter
In April 2010 Fikre was in Sudan, where he arrived several months earlier to set up a trading company. He was summoned to the U.S. Embassy in Khartoum, he says, ostensibly to attend a luncheon with other Americans to be briefed on security amid election-related turmoil in the country. But when he arrived Fikre was instead met with a grilling by two men who identified themselves as FBI agents from Portland, according to his account.
In a session lasting three to four hours, Fikre says, the two men questioned him about people and activities at As-Saber Mosque, where he prays back in Portland. They asked about the imam and people who attend the mosque, the content of sermons and meetings and even details about the layout of the building.
Fikre says they made it clear that they wanted him to go back to Portland as an FBI informant in an unspecified investigation.
Fikre says that when he told the men he didn’t want to work for the FBI, they countered by asking, "Don't you love your family? Don't you want to make real money?" They also indicated that if he worked for them, they could help him get off of the "no fly" list — which he says was a surprise because this meeting was the first he had heard that his name was on the no-fly list.
The details of this conversation could not be verified. However, Fikre has an email that he says came from one of the men, David Noordeloos, after Fikre refused a second meeting: "Thanks for meeting with us last week in Sudan,” it says. “While we hope to get your side of issues we keep hearing about, the choice is yours to make. The time to help yourself is now." Fikre said he considered this communication a threat.
Fikre says he chose Sudan as a business destination because his family had lived there when he was a child, after fleeing civil war in Eritrea. In 1991 his immediate family immigrated to the United States and later became citizens, but he still has relatives in Sudan. He says the agents told him couldn’t do business in Sudan due to U.S. sanctions, so he made his way to the United Arab Emirates, where he had a friend, and started over.
Lost to the world
But on June 1, 2011, in Abu Dhabi, Fikre was arrested by non-uniformed secret police, blindfolded and taken to a secret state security prison with no explanation, according to Fikre’s account.
Day after day under detention in the UAE city, he said, he was interrogated about events and people in Portland, especially those in the As-Saber mosque and its imam — answering many of the very same questions posed by the FBI agents a year earlier, he says, but in even greater detail.
He says that in a particularly brutal session, the prison interrogators prodded him to talk about a new case that was unfolding in Portland — that of Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, who had been arrested in late 2010 by the Portland FBI in a sting operation for an attempted bombing at a crowded Christmas tree lighting ceremony.
Fikre says he told his questioners he didn’t know Mohamud but recognized the younger man in news reports as a member of As-Saber Mosque. He says he knew nothing of Mohamud’s ideology or plans.
For about 10 weeks, Fikre says, he felt he was lost to the world.
He was in held in solitary confinement in a frigid cell without bedding, he says, subjected to bright lights, stress positions, sleep deprivation and beatings around his head, chest, soles of his feet and hands, and threatened with strangulation.
Fikre's captors urged him to work for the FBI and told him that if he agreed to do so he would be freed, according to his account. When Fikre suggested that the UAE interrogators were working for the FBI, they beat him more severely, he says.
Consular visit
Three weeks after Fikre went missing, Nelson, the Portland attorney, launched a search on behalf of worried relatives, contacting officials in the UAE and the U.S. State Department. On July 27, the U.S. Embassy located Fikre and said he was being detained by the UAE State Security Department, email records show.
The next day, a U.S. Embassy staffer was allowed to meet with Fikre.
But Fikre says that the UAE prison officials who also attended the meeting had warned him in advance not to discuss his poor treatment or face further punishment. They also promised that if he cooperated, he would be released within days.
During the meeting Fikre says he tried to subtly signal that he was in trouble, according to his account. But he says the U.S. representative, a woman named Marwa, did not appear to pick up on those signals.
"Mr. Fikre was reported to be in good spirits and did not report any issues of maltreatment," according to an email message from a communications officer at the U.S. Embassy in Abu Dhabi to the office of Rep. Earl Blumenauer, an Oregon congressman who had aided Nelson’s inquiries about the case. The message, obtained by msnbc.com noted that the embassy understood Fikre was not charged with any crime and should be released soon.
Fikre’s incarceration, questioning and abuse continued for nearly seven weeks after that meeting, he says. There were no more visits from the consulate.
He was finally released on Sept. 14, and — because he could not board a flight to the United States – he went to Sweden, where he is staying with a relative while Swedish officials review his request for asylum.
"I used to take great pride in being an American," Fikre said. "I believed that I have a very powerful country that will take care of me no matter where I am. … (Now) I feel like a second-class citizen or not even a citizen. I didn’t get any help from my government."
Fikre and Nelson say they believe the Sudan meeting and the detention were arranged by the FBI to bolster its investigation and prosecution of Mohamud, the would-be Christmas tree bomber.
How names get put on the no-fly list
The FBI had been tracking Mohamud since he was about 16, because of email communications that officials say expressed his desire to pursue violent jihad, according to an affidavit for his arrest.
Sting operation
An undercover FBI agent first made contact with Mohamud in June 2010 in the sting operation that led to his arrest in November.
On Nov. 26, 2010, apparently believing he had connected with Islamic extremists, Mohamud allegedly drove a car he believed contained explosives to a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland and then attempted to detonate it with a cellphone. The explosives and the detonator were fakes supplied by the FBI, which then swept in and arrested him.
Mohamud's trial, scheduled to begin in October, is expected to be a battle over entrapment — whether the sting operation averted a deadly attack or provoked action on the part of a disillusioned young man.
Fikre is one of several Portland Muslims —all of whom sometimes pray at As-Saber Mosque – stranded overseas in recent months by the no-fly list. Jamal Tarhuni, 55, and Mustafa Elogbi, 60, both longtime U.S. citizens, were able to return home from trips to Libya only with the intervention of lawyers. They too say they were pursued by Portland FBI agents for questioning while in North Africa.
The men were reunited with their families in Portland but remain on the no-fly list. In Tarhuni’s case, the designation means he cannot complete aid projects he was working on in Libya with the nonprofit Medical Teams International, and he takes trains to meetings across the country.
Video: Waiting for husband to come home
These men, and others named on the no-fly list must be "considered a threat to aircraft, or be operationally capable of carrying out a terrorist attack, and using air travel to get somewhere for the purpose of conducting a terrorist attack, or be a threat to U.S. installations or troops worldwide," said the spokesman for the Terrorist Screening Center.
Tarhuni, Elogbi and Fikre are likely to file a lawsuit against the Department of Justice to challenge that claim and recover their travel rights, said Nelson.
But Fikre, unlike the other two, is not eager to return to the United States. He said that whatever action he takes will be from the relative security of Sweden, which he hopes will grant him a permanent haven.
"The most important thing for me is to find out why they did to me what they did, Fikri said, speaking from a relative’s home in Sweden. “It’s always in the back of your mind, you know, you wonder why this happened to me. And if you get the answer to that question, you could move on, you know. But something like this happened to you, you always are going to wonder — I wonder why this happened and who was really involved, who was really running the show behind the scenes."
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Leave a Comment:
I guess that's what he gets for being muslim, right?
</sarcasm>
This is so wrong. I had hoped Obama would repeal the patriot act and he didn't. I wouldn't vote for him this year either, but I have a feeling no matter who is in office this invasion of privacy will always remain in place. Good one, America. We lost something we may never get back.
I hope this publicity will allow this man to come back home (if he really wants to). I also hope he gets compensation, but who knows?
Nope, just Muslim first, American Citizen second.
You must be 14 years old.
Repeal the Patriot Act? How about firing the management at the Justice Department? How about all that change? None of it ever happened. We are in year 12 (soon to be four more) of the Bush Administration.
And why is it that the republican party can't (won't) come up with one (1) sane, intelligent candidate? Anyone? One of you 'patriots' out there able to enlighten us as to why all the republican candidates are people like Bachmann, Perry and Santorum?
As he was being held overseas by a foreign security service, what does the Patriot Act have tyo do with it?
It should be pointed out that being on the no-fly list does not in any way impede him from returning to the US. It simply means he can't fly directly in. Obviously, he can take a boat here, but he can also fly to Canada or Mexico (or anywhere in Central or South America) and enter the US overland.
@Tyrone:
But then he's also in Sweden because after his torture he really doesn't want to come back.
Sims4life if you believed that Obama would appeal the patriot act you should be disappointed. Not only has he allowed to remain he has actually strengthened it. Powers to arrest without cause has been increased to include American Citizens something that was not part of the Patriot Act.
Don't you really think that he deserves that Peace Prize he received at the beginning of his Presidency.
It is very cynical to blame Obama for the Patriot Act that the Republicans pushed through long before his presidency. He does not rule in a vacuum and there is no conceivable way he could muster the political power to repeal it. Indeed, in this right-wing dominated culture it would be political suicide to do such a thing. Wait until his second term and things may change. One thing you can bet on is that if Romney and the Republicans win the Patriot Act will be expanded.
Progressives are disappointed in Obama's measures that diminish civil liberties in this country. The NDAA is simply an extension of the Patriot Act, allowing the govt to arrest anyone with impunity under the guise of National Security. If Bush had proposed the NDAA, Democrats would have been up in arms about it.
This govt has wrongly detained and tortured people and never even says sorry. (In fact, both Spain & Germany had threatened to sue the U.S. govt on behalf of their citizens who were tortured and detained in error. But the US Govt pressured them into not doing so.) They make it very hard to protest this treatment because they say everything is secret due to national security. So much for a transparent society.
Torture, pepper spraying, scanning, background checking, wire tapping--all over the top. Looks to me like Osama bin Laden got what he was aiming for.
Sounds to me like it's time for a housecleaning in Portland- -starting with the AIC and working on down to the 2 agents who were apparently culpbable in this matter.
You mean the Patriot Act that the Democrats approved and the Patriot Act that the Democrats have since extended? Blaming the Republicans for everything that the Democrats voted for is getting a little stale
The fact of the matter is that these FBI agents work directly for Obama. Yes, Romney is going to help move us even farther along the police state lines than Obama will, but that does not free Obama from blame. We expect better of our President.
Maybe this guy is guilty as sin. Certainly, many of his activities can be cast in a bad light. I don't know. But, if he has done something wrong, he has a right to speedily hear his accusations in a court of law, speak on his own behalf and be judged by a jury of his peers. Anything less diminishes us as a people and a country.
If the FBI were really honest brokers here, and he really is a security risk on an airplane, send over two FBI agents, have them sit on either side of him during the flight, but let him come home. Heck, let him pay the bill for doing so and let the taxpayer even make a small profit off it - there are many in this country who would contribute a few dollars to get him back home.
The no-fly list is intended for suppression and for no other reason - if there was really a security issue, they could just make sure that no two people who are on the no-fly list can ever board a plane together. What is a single guy who has gone through a security checkpoint going to do on a plane full of a 100 people?
And heck, if 5 or 6 people on the no-fly list try to board the same plane and sit together, you better not be waiting till they get to the airport, you better find them as soon as they buy the tickets.
MSN loves "America Bad" stories haha
Ten to one the FBI had good reason to be on his ass,but has any good muslim would tell you they have no right regardless of reason.
Blue,
" (In fact, both Spain & Germany had threatened to sue the U.S. govt on behalf of their citizens who were tortured and detained in error. But the US Govt pressured them into not doing so.)"
Sounds good but no proof - no win. I can "quote" anything and make it sound like it actually ocurred.
WieserJG,
Since the dumbhead has been in office that's all the Democrats can and are willing to do - blame ANYONE except obama and the rest of the Democratic party. Talk about denial.
Boo-HOO for this Muslim , don't let the door hit you on the way out !!!!!
What in the hell is the FBI doing sending agents to Africa ?
And as far as the no fly list, why is it a big secret, so potential bombers don't know they can't fly and we might catch them... what ? You can't take dick on a plane anymore.
And for any of these idiots to act like there aren't any mistakes on the list is beyond idiotic. And from what I have read, once you are on it, there is literally no mechanism top get off of it. Even if that means you share the name of some nut job in Pakistan.
And lastly, this election is a joke, our choices are bad and worse. Not that Obama is directly responsible for this garbage, but Bush created this mess and Obama's doesn't seem real concerned about cleaning it up. An honorable man would never let this happen to an American.
The story here says .. "I can tell you that the FBI trains its agents very specifically and very thoroughly about what is acceptable under U.S. law," said Beth Anne Steele, spokeswoman for the FBI Portland field office.
Yeah, and its a very short training program that goes like this.
Obama gave us NDAA and there are no rules... Rape em if you like... "and when they ask for a lawyer you say no.. sit down and shut up..." This training video actually exists on the web saying the part in the captions.
Richard--these stories of wrongful detention and torture were all over the news and described in U.S. State Department cables written by our ambassadors and released by wikileaks!
You can always google the information--it's hardly top secret anymore.
The Overlord...Obama expanded the patriot act twice in his first term.
Who knows if this guy is a involved with terrorists, what is certain is that he is living in a freaking nightmare. The only way to find out for sure is to bring him home and conduct a full and impartial investigation. Our justice system is being skirted by many of our intelligence services for no apparent reason.........
I have a friend that was put on the no fly list just because 7 years ago she booked a one way flight from L.A. to New York City to visit family. This lady is white with blonde hair, blue eyes and NOT a Muslim. This kind of behavior by the FBI should alarm any American because they could do this Nazi crap to any one of us.
Sims4life you know that he is innocent because.......
So I guess nothing bad happens to people as long as you don't have anything to hide right?
Who cares about rights, privacy and due process?! Right?
Where are all of the idiots out there that always trumpet the virtues of a broad sweeping, unchecked power, yet always remain silent when we see these abuses come to light?
This is the US government at work, people. If they can't break the laws here, they'll take you to some of their friends to do it for them.
Never forget Benjamin Franklyn's statement! We've given up freedom for the illusion of safety. I somehow doubt that the government will willingly give us back our rights that it has taken.
Yeah, that's right it's Boo-Hoo for the Muslim-American. Just wait until someone comes for you. That's just how it started in Germany. "They came for my neighbors and I did nothing. Then they came for me." Anything that restricts our rights is bad.
Seriously we do not know the cause for his problems. There may indeed be good cause for what the government is doing and not some unchecked abuse of power. MSNBC has written this story without knowing what he is saying is true or not. What is known is that he is on the no-fly list and that is all that is known. Maybe what is saying is the truth maybe it is not but if you simply follow the story as written you get very opinionated account of what went on. He was being held in the UAE but we are not told why. He claims that it was at the behest of the FBI but you provide no evidence to back that up. Please if your going to write a story get all the facts out there.
David--that's the problem. The U.S. govt won't affirm or deny anything because of "national security." In other words, it would be impossible to determine the facts since the govt refuses to disclose. If you are detained and renditioned or even arrested under the guise of "national security and the govt is wrong about you, you can't even sue them or get a court hearing because "national security" closes everything.
There's always someone who tries to bring logic into the arguement. +1
"around"and not 'on' or 'of' ??? What the hell does that mean? They beat on the wall and floor 'around' him and threatened him?
Your right it is very much a problem. What we are left here is a story with no calibrating evidence. I am not saying that he is but what if this man is a terrorist? There needs a way to back up what he says. I realize that in this case it might not be possible but what does it serve to write a story about a whiner. I really want to know why UAE held him. His only evidence about some sort of FBI connection was because the US embassy officials didn't get his hint. The fact that they would be looking for information for the same man is no great surprise because both countries would have reason for interest. It is possible that the reason that the FBI had interest was because UAE did and not the other way around.
We need to reign in the government so that stories like this can be cross checked. That is going to require that electorate demands a change. One of the problems with demanding this however is that because of NDAA we could be arrested for little reason at all because of that. Isn't freedom of speech a wonderful thing.
David1159-
A substantial amount of the story is specifically related to the fact that no authorities are willing to provide him or anyone else with any of the facts, let alone all of them, for why he has found himself on the list.
While I support most anti-terrorist measures, even the TSA, I'm beginning to question the ones that bypass due process, specifically the Patriot Act, no-fly list, and NDAA. It's too easy to abuse such measures or use them as a shortcut instead of employing the legal system the right way. I imagine these measures have led to apprehending some bad guys before they could kill people, but I'm beginning to wonder at what cost. Is it worth it? Do we want to live like this?
English_Teechur What we are left with is story that in effect says nothing. You are working on the premise that he does not know why. The thing is what if he does. If he wishes to reenter the United States there supposedly is no reason that he cannot. All that is known is that he cannot fly here. If he wishes he can fly into Canada and enter the United States through there. If he truly wishes to go home why doesn't he do just that. What if this guy wished to fly into US airspace with the idea of blowing up the plane. Would it not be in his interest to garner support through a channel such as this. This story truly says nothing except what the supposed victim says it does.
That's right. And if he was a Christian, you wouldn't even bat an eyelid. Right?
</no sarcasm>
old story my gandpa told me: first they came after the jews, didn't effect me so I said nothing. Next they went after the catholics, didn't effect me so I said nothing. Next they went after christians, again did not effect me, I said nothing. Suddenly they were coming after me and when I cried for help, there was noone there to help.
The American government is a tyranny, and both the Repubs and the Dems are in on it. The American people are afraid to rise up. They see what happens to people in Syria and elsewhere, so they are scared. And they have their beer, television, Prozac, NASCAR and other entertainment. So they sit back while the USA becomes like the USSR was 45 years ago. History repeats itself. America is lost.
On New Year's Eve of this year Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law. This 'law' was passed by a majority in Congress. This law essentially removes the civil rights of ALL Americans. No trial by jury, indefinite detention (years and years and years, so long as the "War on Terror' persists) no legal counsel, guilty with no chance of proving innocence and the government holds all the cards.
Thank you, President Obama. You have successfully finished killing the Bill of Rights. You must be very proud.
Sweden can have him. No loss here.
When our government participates in activities such as these we become the laughingstock of the globe. Our goverment continues to grow more and more oppressive. As patriots we are duty-bound to throw aside the yokes of tyranny and form a more perfect union. You know who you should vote for, so go ahead and do it.
operative word here is "alleged".
He looks like his face healed without scars. I am certain his story will disappear eventually.
Tdub-3088600
We became the laughing stock when our AAA credit rating was destroyed by Obama's spending spree.
I think the no-fly list is pretty useless at this point.
Screen people for explosives and firearms like we're currently doing.
If anyone is fool enough to try to take over a plane, they will be easily overcome by the passengers and crew. There are no more sheep flying on planes. We all know now not to just follow the orders of any potential hijackers. There will never be another 9/11.
So enough with the Gestapo tactics. Our airlines are safe because of the passengers, not anything the government is doing.
The No Fly list is a joke and a tool used to punish and threaten people. Noticed how many children were on the 'no fly' list? Get on it and suddenly you are a terrorist, try to get off of it, good luck. Rahm Emmanuel used it to get even with folks who annoyed him or threatened the status of the WH and Obama. They can ban you from owning a gun and a host of other things if you get on that special list.
www.youtube.com.watch?v=bjHjZFWh9ps
@Weiser, You criticized the democrats for not repealing the USA PATRIOT ACT but did the GOP support limiting or repealing the USA PATRIOT ACT? Obama signed an order to close Gitmo soon after he took office that the GOP opposed. They also prevented Gitmo from being closed by blocking the necessary funding to do so. What person and party put the USA PATRIOT ACT in place, ran on a policy of increased terrorism if we don't continue and even expanded it and then attacked any political rival who dared to oppose them?
I don't support many Obama's policies but I don't see that the GOP are any better and deserve my vote. Does Mitt, Newt or Santorum plan to abolish the USA PATRIOT ACT, Homeland Security, Gitmo, the TSA or the NDAA?
Answer to your question is nope. Look how those 'bickering and bi-partisan' congressfolks somehow managed to quit their bickering and pass a bill that completely erodes civil liberties. Almost brings a tear to these old eyes to think of how this congress managed to come together and agree on something. Too bad what they agreed upon completely shafts us all.
david1159, he is innocent because he has not been proven guilty, have the terrorist won getting the US to think that the rule of law isn't necessary.
MarshallW The problem is that you are simply wrong. As far as the judicial system is concerned you are innocent until proved guilty but that does not mean that he is innocent. The fact that he may not be convicted in a court of law does not change that. In any case with the NDAA it doesn't matter. With this law in place no such proof is required. Wonderful system Obama and Congress has put into place. You can now be imprisoned because they want to.
In any case I have been trying to make sure that I don't pronounce him guilty. I don't know if he is or not. What I have been trying to say is that MSNBC has nothing to back up what he is saying. Even if he is just a victim of a abusive government MSNBC now has provided a recipe for a real terrorist to enter the country. I know that it is difficult but we have to be careful of what we write.
Who cares what his religion is, he is an American! If he is on the No-Fly-List he needs to know why so it can be refuted or not.
The article said he was asked to be an informant and he refused that is his right as an American.
Tell him why he can't fly give him a chance!
So this guy attends the same mosque as someone arrested for an attempted bombing of a tree lighting ceremony, is in Sudan on "business", and won't cooperate with an investigation of terror threats in Portland. I'm fairly certain the FBI has even more on him. Sounds like the FBI is doing their job.
Sweden doesn't need any more Muslims. Swedes on average have 2 children per family where Muslims average 5. Crime is rampant with no-go areas. Firefighters have to have police escorts just to put out a fire in Muslim neighborhoods. The reason Fikre and other Muslims immigrate to Sweden is because of all the freebees from public assistance. They can't live nearly as well in Muslim majority countries, otherwise they would be seeking asylum there.
i dunno guys, this sounds like similar to how japanese americans were treated after the bombing of pearl harbor. what is alarming to me is that this has happened not just to one guy, but to several people who attend that mosque. is it right for law-abiding citizens to be harassed and detained because some sicko goes to the same mosque as them? according to the article, the FBI know who the target is so shouldn't they be following his moves? wouldn't they know everyone that he associates with? there has to be a better way than harassing law-abiding citizens.
We would rightfully be livid if the FBI wasn't following this guy and he ended up being involved in an attack. Everyone at that mosque should be on the FBI watch list, especially the ones travelling to Sudan.
Well, one guy was going to the Sudan. One went to Libya. One went to Italy. (there have been six people known to have attended that mosque who have since gotten into some kind of trouble with the FBI and the no-fly list, and as you can see from the Italian, not all of them were Middle Eastern.) This guy would make person #7.
They were all interviewed by Portland FBI while overseas, then subsequently placed on the no-fly list when they refused to sign a Miranda waiver prior to the interview. All of them say they were asked about the activities of mosque attendees and the imam--the priest.
So by this reasoning, let's put everyone who went to the same church Eric Rudolph went to on the no-fly list and question them about Rudolph's activities.
Let's put everyone who went to the same church as Timothy McVeigh on the no-fly list and question them about McVeigh's activities.
Let's go to every church that has a priest accused of pedophilia and interrogate all the parishioners about the activities of their priest. And put them on the no-fly list too.
I normally try to avoid making personal comments, but Dingle B, that's pretty sad reasoning coming from someone who has Superman as his icon. Is this truly 'truth, justice, and the American way?'
Oh. So when Obama campaigned on "hope and change" he just forgot to mention that we were supposed to wait until his second term?
No, this is exactly what Plato predicted regarding the end result of a democratic state out of control. So many freedom and liberties have been granted to the citizens that the citizens feel entitled to whatever earthly desire they wish for. Things are out of control when you can't even push a common sense approach to a nations security without the Liberal activists screaming about personal liberties. Start looking at the world around us folks. Stop being self loathing about our country and it's methods. No other countries citizens are acting as apologetic as the liberal pukes in this country. He's an idea, stop trying to change the country to fit YOUR ideal. Think about the country as a whole and respect that we don't all feel the same way you do. Extremist Muslim terrorists wish for our countries destruction. Profile every Muslim you have to to thwart future attacks, why doesn't that make sense to everyone. If one eyed, green skin toned people were responsible for particular type acts, i don't have a problem with them being profiled and interrogated. It is up to those in that minority to police their own to avoid this type of profiling. Peaceful muslims should be More responsible and assist in ridding th eworld of their extremist compatriots. Same goes for any group. If your particular ethnic group has a tendency or is deemed or documented to most likely commit a crime then stop it from happening if you don't want to be lumped in with the dregs. This country has been destroyed from within by the Yuppie generation. Their constant questioning of our countries security methods and their general attitude of American wrong doing has fostered a new america full of self loathing haters. How about you put our country first before some new immigrant battered feelings. How about immigrants stop emmigrating to America and stay home and model your present crappy country into one like America instead of coming here and bringing our country further to the brink of disater.
@Amanda-2017567
I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure anyone who had contact with McVeigh, Rudolf, etc was questioned, fellow church members included. Besides, it's not quite the same, do I have to spell it out?
My point is that the FBI is right to be pursuing this person. There are obvious red flags, and he knows it. I would be more than willing to serve as an informant if it meant that I might help prevent a terrorist attack. I hope that most Americans would.
Also, it's Superman having a Scotch, not just Superman...big difference :)
Oh really. So, anyone affiliated with criminals in any way should automatically be guilty by association? Someone down the block from you gets a DUI, and just because you live in the same neighborhood, you get your license taken away? Or someone in your town commits murder--therefore everyone in the town is thrown in prison. I'd LOVE to hear the "logic" of your thinking. Please, do explain. You know, I like where your heads at... I think all Christians should be thrown in gas chambers, lynched, and burned at the stake for the crimes they've committed against various groups of people over the centuries. You're really onto something, there.
How. How?! How do you know the FBI is right? Do you have a file of evidence? Ha. I think the FBI's scrambling for that very file as we speak. What obvious red flags? He went to Sudan to do business because he HAS FAMILY THERE. No one should be stopped from seeing family, no matter where they live. And as for acting as informants... I would NEVER, EVER, without due cause and suspicion, accuse or even try to accuse any one of my fellow Americans of an act of terrorism. Especially if their tactic to get me on their "team" was to throw me in prison, beat me, deny my rights, and not even bother to contact my family. Would YOU be so willing to throw your fellow Americans under the bus? You're pretty sick, you know that?
I don't have a problem with this as long as we throw any other religious group who has have been responsible for some atrocity onto this list. Oh wait... then everyone everywhere would be on some kind of list.
I'm sure they would try harder if they were given half a chance. Except by the logic you used in your previous quote, you already consider them guilty by association, so you've made it clear you're not even going to listen to their efforts.
I truly wish your ancestors had done the same. You are an utter disgrace to America. I'm ashamed to share a country with the likes of you. I'm only comforted by knowing that there's a special place for you to burn and rot in hell one day. Have a nice life.
DingleB,
True, its not at all quite the same, none of their fellow church members were questioned by being placed on a no-fly list, and imprisoned for months with no charges filed, and they were not beaten and tortured.
No, not the same at all.
And Dom,
Which is all fine and well until YOU are the one whose rights have been violated. Then it is a different matter all together, right? Do you honestly believe that things are out of control when you can't suspend the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to a LEGAL CITIZEN of the United States of America, based on nothing more than his choice in Religion, without people screaming that wrong is wrong?
Actually, WE are not trying to change the country at all, we are simply trying to uphold the very core ideal upon which the country was founded, that all men are free, and that all citizens of this nation are entitled to freedom, and other rights promised by the Constitution. You are the one seeking to change the country to fit your ideals, by suspending the Constitution. (But only for the people you don't like, of course.)
True, but the same applies to you. Please understand that some of us believe in, support and defend the Constitution that you so clearly despise.
OK, but only if it is also fair to profile every Christian you have to thwart their future attacks. You are aware that The VAST MAJORITY of terrorist attacks on US soil have been planned and executed by Christian Extremists, right?
So if I can have the right to arrest, detain without charges, torture, and place on no-fly lists every Christian in the Nation, simply because they are Christians, and other Christians have carried out Terror attacks, then I will be ok with you doing the same to Muslims.
What a wonderful suggestion, they were a pain in the ars* at Wheelus and the Congo, in 1961, always whing to the crappy UN about us giving Durex to the troops, most of whom. especially the Paddies would fuc* a monkey. The Christian cult is an abomination of Fairy tales, particularly the Catholic one...I would not hesitate to to treat them as terrorists...it is what they are.
I understand this was also the advent of HIV being transported to the West, blame the catholics, they refused to allow the issue of the Durex we donated to them.
These are the types of actions that change political boundaries. The problem with things of this nature is it makes people like me have the utmost desire to Mark on the ballot NO CONFIDENCE on all parties candidates. There is none of them fit to lead this country for they are not there for the people but for the furtherance of themselves. None of these political candidates have the knowledge or self worth to put an end to bad practices they are and will continue to run this country to the ground.
So the f*cking terrorists have won. As a nation we are now so fearful of what might happen if a Muslim goes to Africa or the Middle East that we are going to treat them ALL like terrorists.
We'll stop them from pursuing entrepreneurial and philanthropic activities so that more people can suffer.
We'll subject ourselves to full body molestings at the airports by TSA agents who fine us for the insult by taking sh*t from our bags.
We'll spend unfathomable amounts of money on pointless wars that do nothing to solve our problems.
We'll allow big government to grant itself clearly unconstitutional powers to harass and detain American citizens at home and abroad without due process.
We'll put drones in the skies and armored vehicles on the streets in a never ending escalation intended to 'keep us safe'.
But we won't secure our borders and monitor them.
We won't do what Israel does: simple, inoffensive profiling which has kept what is arguably one of the world's most hated nations remarkably safe amidst a sea of enemies.
What is wrong with America?
Wrong you ask... Bush-Obama are your Diebold self-elected leaders no? Obama signed both the NDAA and The Enemy Expatriation Act (which makes him guilty of the crime of Treason: Seditious Conspiracy 20 years in prison along with every signing member of the Senate and the House) allowing the government to extradite you to a foreign country against your will for a torture session to remove your American citizenship so that they can then put a bullet in your head or send you off to GITMO for the rest of your life. Homeland security just bought something on the order of 45 million hollow point rounds of ammo. Wrongness in America? Everything begins going right when political criminals are rounded up and dealt with, including through the use of street justice. These scum are psychopaths.
How about 'no more' we don't need anybody else from that neck of the woods.We could use more swedish models tho[not afro swedish]
Oh wow, Ken- -you obviously forgot to take your meds today.
Who would we profile? There are no shortage of extremists, who do not fit the "profile" of a terrorist. Eric Rudolph, Timothy McVeigh, Unabomber, etc.? And inoffensive to whom?
Maybe if the Muslims did more about it we would have to.
stonedog34
I totally agree with your post. You ask "What is wrong with America?" the simple answer is Conservative Hysteria. I'm my personal experience I have found that so called Conservatives are no more than a bunch of spinless cowards that will sell our freedom just to calm their own fear of the outside world. These people talk tough but when the chips are down their the first ones to run and hide. I've have seen these Conservative gutless wonders in action so many times it makes me sick just thinking about it. Believe me when I say, you don't want a Conservative covering your back on the battlefield because when the shooting starts you'll be on your own.
Look at the comments of the average person in this forum and then ask yourself what is wrong with America. I am beginning to wonder whether there is LSD in our water supplies.
Welcome to Obamaland
I agree with everything you said, except for the statement that Israel has it all figured out.
Is anyone happy with Obamas first 3.25 years? I mean really! The left can't be as all he's done is follow the Bush doctrine in regard to Iraq, he doubled down in Afghanistan, doubled down on the Patriot Act, gas prices have averagedmuch higher under Obama, food prices are going up, the real unemployment rate is over 10% (counting all those who gave up), he signed a health care law that a small minority want, the budget is beyond busted, and finally the country is as divided as its been since perhaps the civil war. Lots of accomplishments for Obama, virtually all of them very bad.
I am happy with Obama. I am also smart enough to understand the nature of the economy as it relates to the presidency, which you obviously are not.
Dear BigAl, (Any relation to Fat Elvis? You're both in Las Vegas)
If you haven't been keeping up on current events, say the last 3+ years or so just a little FYI. It was a very very liberal Democrat and a very very Liberally controlled House and Senate that passed the renewal of the Patriot Act. Not those evil Conservatives who are suffering from Hysteria. Of course I think they would 'also' renew that same act, the point is that sword cuts both ways. Because they, politicians, are addicted to 'control', regardless of the drivel they spoon feed you during election time. And we, as in the public (as a whole), in our moments of weakness gave it to them.
Careful, this story does not ring true...I recall another similar (trying to unearth the detail) also FBI seldom deals with suspected terrorist cases...in Sudan.
Ahh what a country.We need a hole new government thats what I see.
That has to be the problem. Republicans and Conservatives with that mind control machine forcing Obama and his appointees to do things they really don't want to do. Poor President Obama really wants to do the right things but when Republicans use that mind control machine on him, he just can't fight it. That just has to be it.....because President Obama and the Democrats he has appointed would never do anything wrong. It's all Bush's fault....well....and that Republican Conservative mind control machine.
Incorrect. President Obama did sign the NDAA on Dec 31 2011 but he has not yet signed the EEA. The EEA is still currently coming up through the House and Senate and has yet to be approved by either governing body.
Considering its authors were one independent, two Republicans, and one Democrat it could be postulated that it will pass with little opposition as sister legislation to the NDAA for FY2012.
The actual text of the EEA looks fairly innocuous, and its only when you do some in depth research and go dig up the four articles of US Code to which the terms of the EEA applies do you figure out what it really means. Here's a basic breakdown of what it (and its related US Code) actually says:
Any USC, whether native born or naturalized, can have citizenship stripped or revoked if:
The EEA allows the government to remove your citizenship. If you have formerly had citizenship in another country besides the US, you can be extradited (i.e. deported) to your country of origin. If, however, you have never had citizenship in any country but the US, you would be deemed illegal and therefore subject to the terms of the NDAA for FY2012, which state indefinite mandatory military detention without charge or trial until the current hostilities (i.e. the War On Terror) is over.
EDIT:Delete accidental double-post
What a sad nation we live in, freedoms are just shrinking...
People think the Terrorists win the moment we don't remember who's died in this so called "war", the truth is the Terrorists win the moment we try and turn a condition into a problem. There wasn't a war on terrorism till we dubbed it a war on terrorism. The irony is we as American's were founded on Terrorism, and uprising, you'd think we'd know a bit more about addressing that kind of situation more positively.
The Terrorists win because we let them get to us... The Patriot Act was their green light, good job Paranoia. Rational and intellectual leaders are as big a myth as Bigfoot.
I bet the EEA could be translated to put our military against a revolt started by the citizens against the government caused by our freedoms being stripped. Which was why our right to bear arms and create militias was written in the constitution to give the free citizens a means of overtaking the government if it got too big/corrupt. That is how I see it anyways.
@ pained1 How about 'no more' we don't need anybody else from that neck of the woods.We could use more swedish models tho[not afro swedish]
Not Afro Swedish. You must don't like African Americans either.
I Love Obama Land, I Have Never Been Happier!!!!
If we had a real Attorney General, instead of yet another installment in the Ashcroft/Gonzales/Mukasey strain of swine, Bush and Cheney would now be residing in Leavenworth for torture. Sadly, it ain't gonna happen . . .
Bush and Cheney are too afraid to leave the States because they know they will get arrested for war crimes. The whole world knows they are guilty. It really is disgusting what you can get away with when you have money and power in America.
Its all Area 51 man.
What about Obama Bob? Shouldn't he go to jail too? I guess its ok for Dems to torture.
chuckles with fixwing
papag.
It happened under Holder eyes, what are you smoking. Did you read the new about all the civil casualties during the last 4 years of war, did you read the news Obama was elected President in 2008, I guess this administration should go along with Bush
Pres. Obama can't do anything unless Congress agrees with him. Fat chance since the war mongering anti middle class Tea Party has taken hold of the house. All four of the Republican dodo birds that ran for the Republican nomination for President want to go to another war in Iran
Wrong MarshallW. He's already bypassed congress.
The signing of the NDAA ... unforgiveable. There were sufficiently onerous laws and methods in the States to protect us. But let's not import more fanatical crazies sworn to follow edicts. I ain't Christian; however, I doubt your average Pres, Methodist or Lutheran church have many secrets. Not creating many suicide bombers - they usually use rental vans. Scientologist whacks seldom cry out Hubbard's name while self-immolating. No question that we do have enough natively born whacks and they get detained and "questioned" as well.
I've seen robes and veils (certainly their right) waltz through airport security along with my 6' self while my 5' tall wife and other obvious innocents were thouroughly examined. Stupid false sense of security. Part of the propaganda of our times that we waltz through. We are so conditioned as a species for conflict for the profit of a few.
This individual was graciously allowed to naturalize and went expatriate. Not so innocent with dubious associations. Should remain expat. I'm OK with that. Maltreatment, not so much.
MarshallW... PLEASE do some research and start with the white house dot gov and in the "search this site for" space, please type in Executive order signed march 16 2012. This WAS signed WITHOUT Congress' agreement/imput AND he even added "in times of peace". I believed Obama when he spoke on the campaign trail in '08 about not supporting the Patriot Act (which he not only extended, but added indefinate detention for American Citizens!?). I believed Obama when he said on the campaign trail in '08 that he was gonna bring our troops home (only to continue these undeclared wars and double down on troops to Afgan). I have found that Obama is soooo different than the person he led the American people to believe he was (let's not forget that HE CALLED for transparency in the White House only to sign our rights away without concern of how "We The People" would feel about OUR Constitution being shredded even more)! Because of all of these lies spouted out of our current President and his SUPPORT of the Bush policies, I had to start looking for whom to cast MY vote for this year (while I STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE!). I found that Romney, Newt, Santorum, and Obama share the same foreign policy (which is we need more war, war, war) and they all seem to share the same domestic policy problem (which is we need to spend more, more, more). Then who was left for me to research... You guessed it....
You were almost right about the other statement you made about the repubs...EXCEPT, Ron Paul DOES NOT SUPPORT the Undeclared, Unconstitutional wars AND wants to restore our rights AND has been consistantly honest for over 30 years.
This is NOT about what party you are with because they appear to have the same agenda (which is to destroy OUR rights and liberties! We The People have to stand up agianst these injustices to us all!! I suggest that you check the facts on everything that you hear in the mainstream media. They have certainly misrepresented Ron Paul in the media as far as I (and many others) are concerned.
Google: NDAA or HR347
youtube: media caught lying or witness the power of an idea:Ron Paul
Fikre was granted naturalized status and chose to worship in the same building as two of the 9/11 terrorist. When he went to the Sudan to start a trade company he was questioned, detained and ultimately not allowed to return home. He didn't go 'expatriate' he's requesting political asylum in Sweden. If the US isn't allowing him to return home, the next step is likely going to be stripping him of his US naturalization. If that happens he will be stateless so he's applying for asylum in Sweden in order to get himself protected under some country's laws before he does find himself stateless.
That maybe the least intelligent of a lot of intelligent cdomments on here.
George Bush was a hero and the only man capable of leading this country and dealing with terrorist scum. George Bush, despite the Rote vitriol that Move-On has obviously brainwashed it's liberal puke bags members with, will always be considered by me to be the greatest wartime president ever. Stop the hating on a topic that none of you had the balls to enter into. You'd of had us at a mediation table asking the terrorists why they are mad and what can we do to fix that. Bombs are the only negotiating tools this country needs.
Such a great leader, even the Gulf of Tonkin was a better excuse then so called WMD's. Sorry Dom but in the end it was his call to push for the invasion, didn't turn up anything but another tally to the failed states list.
Sorry Dom, but every country in the world recognizes he and Dick are war criminals. Why do you think they don't travel much? Because they're too well respected internationally? They're criminals.
He gets searched as everyone else, so why the bullying USA? Many of your gov't officials- like your rogue soldiers- are mostly cowardly thugs and deviants.
Give me a break Dou44. You don't belive what you said up there, do you? "he gets searched as everyone else".
LOL. 2 to 1 the extra large 1st lady and two twits won't allow it either.
So where are all the Bush haters/war crimes boneheads on this story? Oh, that's right.. It's okay when its Obama.
Strawman argument. Bush and his GOP pro-life corporate legal dandies permitted the use of torture by the US military and the CIA previous changing policy and disregarding the law. They are criminals.
Is obama involved in the day to day activities of the FBI? You want to fault him for not repealing the Patriot Act that's fine. You would be correct.
Somehow I don't think Obama has his hand in every operation handled by the gov't. Apparantely you do. It often happens to those of limited intelligence.
@adam- I think that may have been his point. Bush got credit for every single action the government took, but Obama doesn't get that same treatment.
Strawman argument? Maybe not. Obama's administration has had ample time and plenty of authority to repeal the overextension of executive power and become a more transparent government (as he promised). They have not done so.
This is not necessarily Obama's fault, but he is fully capable of preventing these sorts of injustices from happening, and he does not. He had kept the heavy hand of government security in place and made it heavier for fear of being thought of as weak (or, less charitably, maybe because he enjoys having such powers). He has been as quick as Bush was to sacrifice "American" values for the sake of political convenience.
Pathetic.
Adam you are right that he doesn't have direct control but he does have overall control. President Obama signed off on NDAA which is effectively the Patriot Act on steroids. Quite literally President Obama can call out marshal law without any imput from Congress. While I don't believe some of what comes out of the conspiracy theorists it cannot be denided that the act allows for it. You should look into it and then decide on what you think about it.l
Adam, not only did he not repeal it, he expanded it...twice.
The man in question admitted to attending the same mosque repeatedly in which the Imam was directly linked to a twarted suicide bomber. I believe they had and have every right to take precautions and bar any and every member of the mosque at this point from the airlines. As far as the tortures go, that issue is with the people he accuses of torturing him. It is his assumption it happened at the request of the FBI.
As far as the NDAA goes, it is nothing new. The NDAA was created by the republicans during the Reagan era. It has been upheld and upgraded by every sitting President since. Quite frankly, after watching youtube videos of conservatives and the types of weapons they are playing with and bartering with, I think the NDAA is much needed now more than at any time in american history. Ever watch a video of the toys these weekend warriors buy and trade? youtube.com/watch_popup?v=OQnU1t7UzgM
iceph03nix Obviously you do hot hear about the Obama hate machine brought to us by FOX news and the Koch brothers, down with the middle class up with Big Business just ask Citizens United
Then by this reasoning everyone who went to the same church as Timothy McVeigh should be barred from ever flying and be subject to interrogation by the government.
Everyone who went to the same church as Eric Rudolph should be barred from flying and be subject to interrogation y the government.
If a Catholic priest is accused of molesting children then all parishioners of that particular church should be questioned about their involvement and placed on the no-fly list.
Exactly Amanda. It's no different then MegaUpload. This global US authority over 'Allies' is pretty scary. I still can't believe that the US went into New Zealand and arrested NZ citizens and nationals. Did we hear a single protest from New Zealand? We wouldn't know if MSM is where we get our news. The fact that this took place on the very day that congress believed they could pass the 'Chinese' style SOPA/PIPA Acts here in the US is no coincidence. Now we are dealing with another ALEC created law, winding quietly through congress, called CISPA, where any corporations storing information on US citizens may FREELY share that information with any requesting AUTHORITY. This is not only negates your first amendment rights, it is nothing short of a military style coup on our constitution. Now they won't need to get those pesky Search Warrants and can do away with the hundreds of Illegal Search and Seizure lawsuits that have been filed across the US. The Navy's new motto, 'Protecting the US GLOBALLY.' UnPatriotic Act, Global US Law over US Citizens, DHS/TSA. DHS is busted for the illegal use of military weapons against US citizens on US soil, no problem, ALEC's already written the NDAA Act, another military coup on our constitution and the abolishment of our Fourth Amendment, can you say bye bye to freedom? Because that was written specifically for Protestors. A little research on the Hitler Domestic Laws will chill you to the depths of your soul. Other then the 'updated' technology jargon, it reads the same except the Nazi's didn't make you take your shoes off. They'd let you wear those from the train station to GITMO... I mean the concentration camp. Check out the part where Hitler wants to go to war with Russia and he can't get the German people behind him. He has his thugs blow up the Reichstag building and blames it on Russia. Oh yeah, those Germans were mad! All their newspapers carried the 'story' and out came the 'Patriotic' symbols and the call for revenge, reads like 911: www.rense.com/general24/operationnorthwoods.htm
Then when you get into the history of Barb PEARCE Bush's banking family, the financing of Hitler during WWII and their prosecution at the Nuermberg Trials, well....... History does repeat itself.
American-American
You're soiling the good name of ALEC.
They just want what's best for you don't you know that?
You silly Gentile you.
that is all BS. more drag on on the American society and economy. what happened to "Land of the Free"?
We are becoming the nation of guilty before a trial.
It scares me how people on the right are all happy with the profiling muslims or in other cases hispanics the same people that complain that the government is taking away rights.
As this happened in the Mideast, why are we even involved. that';s his problem.
Scalzo,
It's very naive to think the American intelligence agencies are not pulling the strings behind all of this. Check this out:
1) The US put him on a no-fly list. And kept him there intentionally and indefinitely.
2) The FBI interviewed him for hours and tried to suborn cooperation by dangling the no-fly carrot.
3) After months of foreign imprisonment and alleged torture, the embassy rep visits him, declares everything is cool, leaves, NEVER COMES BACK and this poor dude endures SEVEN more months of incarceration - WITH NO CHARGES. If you were in trouble overseas, wouldn't you want your government to speak on your behalf and demand your immediate release? They didn't because they wanted him to remain there.
Whether you like it or not, this dude is a US citizen. One would expect his government to treat him as such. This is very scary and concerning. If they have dirt on this guy, prosecute and imprison him; otherwise, grant him his constitutionally mandated protections and leave him alone.
cgtrav, which would you rather have, profiling or this sort of atrocity?
Not that our government actually gives you a choice, but profiling is a minor offense compared to actually depriving someone of their rights and getting them detained and tortured.
Either way, we need to reel back the security apparatus in this country. This is sickening.
You have his side of the story, last I heard there are three sides to every story
SF accountant.
Neither is appropriate. He's an American which is wrong but he would not be on the list if he wasn't a muslim.... profiling. Do you really believe it was much more than that??
Here is the other side of the story (in the shape of a nice form letter):
"Based on our review, we have concluded that no action by this Office is warranted. We will be referring your claim to the round filing cabinet."
And THAT is the problem.
All because dictator Obummer gave the FBI and SS authority to torture or do anything they so desire.................Time long overdue for an impeachment......... Both parties suck big time, but then that's politicians for you, none of them are worth a plug nickel......Remaining independent, no party ties for me
SF Accountant,
I hate to break the news to you, but this IS profiling. If he were a white guy from Alabama, do you think this would be happening to him?
This sort of atrocity i exactly what you get when you profile. Period.
You can't be the land of the free when you no longer are the home of the brave.
Why do you say this is an atrocity? There is only one side in this story.
How can these people be "no-fly stranded" overseas when there are alternate modes of transport available? I am sure there are ships which travel from Sweden to the US. As long as he has a valid passport, there should be no problem re-entering the US.
His travel definitely appears to be suspicious - we have no details on his activities, just his statement. Terrorists (and their attorneys) do not always tell the news media their true intentions.
AfghanWarVet
Yeah or do you think this would happen if this was a white lady from New York or elsewhere in the US. You should also see how many Main Stream Media outlets neglected to carry her story. Thing is they can pick you up and nobody would even know they did, well except them.
Google Susan Lindauer.
The scary thing is that they (Goevernment) does not even deny it
I also wonder if there are days that this guy can't recall(missing days in memory) while he was in captivity.
One of the attendees of this Portland mosque is a guy who gained US naturalization after emigrating here from Italy. He has also claimed harassment and unfair treatment, so its not just limited to blacks, like Fikre; and Middle Easterns, like Tarhuni and Elogbi.
Another deplorable story of mistreatment of this Muslim gentleman because he attended the Portland mosque that was under scrunity. Where was the Oregon congressional team or was this deemed to be an 'hands-off' situation by the powers-that-be? Shame on them and their self-serving ways.
I don't blame him for one minute for not wanting to return to the US. Shame on that stupid woman from the American Embassy who ignored this man's plight. Double shame on the American Embassy in Dubai who turned their backs on this gentleman who was obviously in harm's way and who have disgraced themselves.
It is at these times that I am not proud at all of our country. Thank God he has his Portland attorney to tell his story. One can only hope that Sweden will honor his request for asylum. I wish only good things for Fikre and his loved ones.
Amanda, and Fishman,
Sorry I should have been more clear in my writing. My intent was more to that fact that he was singled out and abused based on his choice of Religion, rather than the color of his skin. While I see no reason to believe that the FBI choose him based on race, some comments here were pretty obviously in that direction, and I made a knee-jerk reply.
That was a poor choice of words on my part. My thinking was, there are very few people from certain parts of the South that are not Christian. I made a very poor assumption that folks would pick up on that.
Sorry, and thanks for setting me straight!
Let's review: an american muslim going to a politically unstable region where the Taliban and Al qaeda are making a stand. Sounds like this guy was an idiot for going, probably does know something important and deserved to be placed on the no fly list. America will be destroyed from within by people like this fox.
Or more likely people like you. It's almost always the 'patriots' that do the most damage to freedom (see Joe McCarthy).
Gee, it is not only McCarthy, how about his chief counsel, Robert Kennedy? By the way Bobbie also picked McCarthy to be the godfather of one of his kids. The more you read the more you will learn.
I'm a hundredfold more frightened of what the American government can do to me accidentally (in the name of security) than what this guy or even a confirmed terrorist can do to me deliberately (in the name of Jihad or revenge or whatever).
The patriot comment got me thinking how people often misquote Jefferson.
They only say half of the quote, "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots...." They leave out the end. The true end is "the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Government is playing the role of the tyrant in this case if you haven't picked it up yet.
And if they have moderate views and are gong there to counter the Taliban message of hate with one of peace and love and acceptance? Don't we want more of our moderates over there telling them violent jihad isn't the answer?
well i have said this before, either you are a american or not which is it i am so tired of people saying they are american but have to put hispanic, muslim, italianetc. you dont see my forefathers saying german americans but then those certien individuals would really have a hay day with that. as for the no fly list well there are a lot of people on it and maybe they should be or not that is our AMERICAN govt which decides that. some people just do the wrong thing and get all caught up in it. be AMERICAN or not that is the question....
What the f does this have to do with article? So if I say I am a muslim-American its ok to waterboard me? Ridiculous.
Oh, but bruce, they most certainly did group as Dutch, Germans, English, France, etc. Their communities were certainly ethnic groups. And, they did talk trash against each other and I'm sure they called themselves many things before a phase stuck.
Nik, if you're a Islamic terrorist then yeah I'd be happy to water board you. If you have ever surfed or body surfed you've been water boarded, it's better then having your head cut off.
The sad thing is, my generation is going to have to pay out millions in lawsuits when all the dust has settled. Thanks a lot folks.
My guess is we (the American 1%) probably already spent a million bucks putting your dumb ass through school.
fixwing- that was kinda harsh
Well, sure, but you don't have to be mean about it, Fix.
My guess is your a sixth grade drop-out fix.
Wow University, way to reduce an international situation into "me, me, me". Says a lot about your generation. The SAD thing really is...this guy's rights have been lost and he's having a terrible time getting home. Glad I am not invited to your pity party.
dave, so that would be six grades further then you.
dave-sunny so.cal writes:
"My guess is your a sixth grade drop-out fix."
wlee-950886 writes:
"dave, so that would be six grades further then you."
(deep sigh)... In general, when attacking someone's intelligence, there is a certain expectation that the attacker possesses more intelligence than the one being attacked. I try not to be a grammar nazi on the vine, but this was a double whammy abortion of the written word that I just couldn't resist.
Damn it, kids! It's "you're a sixth grade drop-out" and "further than you". Humor, especially deprecating humor, demands a certain precision in its delivery. Now I see that you have 'irony' down pat but your homophones still need some work. I don't want to have this talk with you again. See me after class. I have some worksheets for you.
A frigid cell in Abu Dhabi? I suspect he would have liked it even less in the non-air-conditioned wing.
As far as I'm concerned, which isn't very far at all, Sweden's loss is America's gain here.
Steve.....Shame
I wonder if Bob in Detroit would say the same about you if our paranoid security apparatus got you stuck overseas for no good reason.
SF, to bad our paranoid security wasn't in affect prior to 9/11
Go bitch to them. they were the ones holding him.
Yea, and they (not the FBI) put him on the American no-fly list, right?
No. The no-fly list is a creation of the U.S. and is enforced by airlines around the world -- who bar people specified on the list from flights to the United States or through U.S. air space. By Fikre's account the UAE officials were actually surprised that they couldn't deport him to the U.S. because of the no-fly list.
Sorry Kari, I was trying to be sarcastic >_<
You can sit next to him on the plane then. Happily I'm sure.
Why doesn't he just take a boat home? It doesn't say he can't come home...it just says he can't fly home. Or, he can fly into Canada and drive across the border.
Tom,
He may want to sue, money may have something to do with it. However, I believe his account over our Government's account, which to this point is currently: "No Comment."
I figure we have roughly a decade to get our government back under control. If not we'll very quickly end up in a totalitarian society.
Cniht or a civel war .I see states succeeding at some point .I know i would .We are an embarrassment to the world and the terrist won this war long ago. Or was that the plan?
Then They Came for Me (A New Twist)
By Stephen Rohde, a constitutional lawyer and President of the ACLU of Southern California. Adapted from the original by Rev. Martin Niemoller (1937).
You lost me at ACLU.
LOL civil liberties amirite?
"You lost me at ACLU." ... its ok 'obama's my'... we know that republicans are a little dimwitted.
You wouldnt be expected to understand nuances and parse information. All you would understand are catch phrases and bumper stickers having no more than 10 words in it.
I find it hard to believe that all republican constitution thumpers fail to recognize that the ACLU strives to preserve the spirit of the constitution for all people.
I liked the quote, but it isn't as catchy as the original.
And Logical, there are plenty of Democrats who have trouble seeing past the last catchy bumper sticker they caught on their way to work. Remember "hope and change"? What happened to all of that?
logical, liberal in name only
It STRIVES to impose the wishes of a few on the many.
Not even close. It STRIVES to remove the shackles of the many, from the few.
Do I support everything, (or even most things) the ACLU stands for? No. Absolutely not.
Is it an absolute imperative that the rights and freedoms of the few be protected from the will of the Mob Mentality of the Majority?
Only if you want to live in a Free Country. Only if you want America to continue to exist.
That's a nice rip off by the ACLU. True, but a nice rip off.
Too bad the ACLU is just as selective in what they pursue as the people they are lambasting in the quote.
Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle.
obama's my zero:
Incorrect. It strives to protect the few from having the wishes of the many imposed upon them.
News flash: the popular vote is not how civil liberties work.
Exactly, Ash - The same reason we have a judicial branch. The idea that just because the majority shares an opinion that it can then be deemed "right" is just not the case, as multiple examples throughout history, all over the world, illustrate.
Obama is the same as Bush. Same policies, same ideas.
Yes We Can!
Starting to feel as they are. And, I am a hard nosed Democrat.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Only Democrats and Republicans think there's any real difference between Democrats and Republicans. The individual politician matters worlds more to the quality of governance than the party platform.
SF, finally people are waking up, join the Dempublican party
I hope the FBI is watching this guy every second of every day. He's got BOMB written all over him!! By the way, Sweden is up to its armpits with mooslums. They don't want you there because their country is being ruined by the "Radical Islamists".
put down your keyboard and go and put your words to action. go and do something about all the Muslims in the U.S.
Oh wait...you don't have the stones.
I didn't see in the article where this guy was born. I bet he is one of the thousands that simply take citizenship as a means to an end. Islam is a death cult and should be outlawed. I have no sympathy for him and in fact I'm sure we're all safer he's not on this side of the ocean.
Ah, you missed it. He was born in Eritrea, probably still part of Ethiopia at that time, & a war was going on. His family emigrated across the border to Sudan to escape the violence. Becomes an American citizen, & is subjected to violence again.
You will never get rid of even a single Muslim on your own..you have no stones to do anything about the hateful feelings you have.
unthinkable...stones? And2x? Wow.
@Musician - It would seem that a person whose family was subjected to intolerable violence in the Middle East, who is given the opportunity to come to the US and become a citizen, would be thrilled to stay in the US and live a free life. Why would he risk returning to Sudan, or other Mideast countries where there is no protection for him?
Sounds quilty enough to keep him out of the US. Go back to Sudan and to your "trading" company.
import/export
I guess he's been exported.
time to choose, the moral side or immoral. It's OK to admit your government is evil. It's the start to correcting the problem.
evil? evil from whom perspective?
Mostly from those people getting tortured. And probably those that grew up being told that they lived in the "land of free" where its populace was protected from government oppression.
All terrorists can do is blow up a building every once in a while.
Governments can destroy entire nations, commit genocide, annihilate the environment, or enslave a populace.
Who? What? Where? And what is your point? Oh yeah I forgot because L Blow Job wanted the 1964 illegal immigratrion to pass. Pass to what? DESTRUCTION
Certainly evil from the Christian perspective. That is practicing, rather than professing Christians.
Yeah,sorry.Just goes to show you how ludicrous it is to keep minting more "americans'
sorry? sorry for whom? Write a complete sentence next time.
At no point during this whole article is any actual evidence of his detention or arrest...just one sentence after the next that starts "He claims" and "He says"...I'm just sayin'. With the exception of being on the no-fly list. We've gone this long without being attacked again and quite a few attempts have been thwarted. If this guy blew up a plane then we'd all be bitchin' about it. Let him have his day in court. I bet he won't push it that far.
And who is to say that he isn't lying about the entire ordeal. Wasn't he blindfoldde and taken somewhere? Maybe it was some of his Muslim buddies trying to create problems.
One of the primary problems is that we won't GIVE him his day in court. That's the problem.
I really don't care what we do to people that are properly convicted. Jail 'em, interrogate 'em, kill 'em, whatever. That's a different argument. But what has this guy done? He went to the same Mosque as some lunatic.
Concerned, he certainly could be lying (since the government won't reveal the pertinent information - trasnparent government my a$$), but what for? To get a nice spot in Sweden?
SF Accountant, I was tempted to open a diologue with you about your obvious Pelosi/Reed leanings and anti-American sentiments but upon realizing that SF probably referred to San Francisco, it became apparent that you're just another ignorant puppet who believes everything they read in our liberal press. You would probably approve of allowing more of your mideastern brethen returning to the US for flight training. You're one sick ahole. I THINK WE SHOULD ALL BE PROFILED.
USA = USSR.
USSR citizens lived in fear of secret police and secret legal proceedings. Tell me how the USA is any better than the USSR? We became what our govt said we hated and were supposedly fighting against.
They called theirs the Commitee for State Security, & we call ours the Department of Homeland Security. We always were better with names.
Well, we still avoided Communism. That's one bullet dodged.
Phew!
tim we don't have any gulags in Siberia
Tim, first of all, the USSR was dissolved 20 years ago. every country has various security agencies and the FBI's job is, in part, national security within the US. because the security apparatus is doing it's job isn't cause for interpreting this guys predicament as a case of an American citizen's rights being trampled.
I have to ask why a Sudanese-American who attends what sounds to be a moderately radical mosque or mosque with a moderately radical imam is going to set up a trading company in one of the poorest countries in the world that has been in the midst of a civil war and is still notorious for a Somalia-like feudal culture. It does smack of an attempt to escape the scrutiny of the FBI.
And, the guy has not been classified as persona non grata. He just can't board a commercial airliner back to the US until he explains some of his ties to the FBI. His attorney is more than welcome to buy him a one way ticket on a boat.
Ok, so by that train of thought, everyone who attended a church with Tim McVeigh should not be allowed to rent vans, and anyone who lives in the woods of Montana like Ted Kozinsky should not be allowed to send mail? Also, every Catholic who attended mass led by a pedophile priest needs to go to jail. Guily by association is ridiculous. Putting this guy on a terrorist list (make no mistake, that's what the no-fly list is) because he attended the same church as a criminal is absurd. The true line is "innocent until proven guilty", at least until they get around to changing that law too. I don't care what his religion, race, economic status, etc. is, as long as he is an American citizen he deserves the same rights as the rest of us. The upsetting thing is that he may have gotten them...
He did not just attend worship services at a mosque led by, and attended by, radicals or semi-radicals. He also traveled to places where there is known to be terrorist activity. There may be other information that has been found that has not been released publicly, because release would compromise sources and methods.
No. I do not think there should be a public trial for each name on the no-fly list. There should be a method established to remove names which are in error, perhaps confidential hearings where a judge can hear evidence and statements from each side (keeping intelligence sources and methods secret and still useful for future cases.)
When the Nazi SS started out they were called the Saal-Schutz--Home Protection.
Now we have Homeland Security.
There is terrorist activity in Norway. There is terrorist activity in Great Britain. There is terrorist ativity in Ireland. There is terrorist activity in the Congo. There is terrorist activity in Australia. In Korea. in China. In New Zealand. In Nepal. In Canada. In Russia. There s nowhere you can go where there is not some kind of terrorist activity. Have you seen the list of what Homeland Security considers terrorism these days?
Alternative media
Anarchist extremism
Animal rights extremism
Anti-abortion extremism
Anti-immigration extremism
Anti-technology extremism
Aryan prison gangs
Black bloc
Black nationalism
Black power
Black separatism
Christian Identity movement
Cuban independence extremism
Decentralized terror movement
Denial-of-service attacks
Direct action (including lawful acts of civil disobedience)
Environmental extremism
Ethnic extremism
Extremist groups
Green anarchism
Hacktivism (technology-enabled social/political activism)
Hate groups
Jewish extremism
Leaderless resistance
Left-wing extremism
Lone terrorists
Mexican separatists
Militia Movements (including conspiracy theorists)
Neo-Nazis
Patriot Movement
Phineas Priesthood
Primary targeting(directly supporting/funding terrorists)
Puerto Rican independence extremists
Radical Norse mysticism practitioners
Racialists
Right-wing extremists
Single-issue/multiple issue extremist groups
Skinheads whose ‘dress may include shaved head/short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens and a bomber jacket’
Sovereign citizen movement
Tax resistance movement
Violent anti-war extremism
Violent religious sects (includes those who stockpile food and weapons)
White Nationalists
White Power advocates
White Supremacists
Let's see how long he lasts in Sweden before they toss him in the clink, beat him and deport him and he lies to gain admission to another country.
Sweden prisons are like 4-star resorts. He won't get beaten if he gets locked up, he'll get pampered (at least until deportation).
And this is the same FBI that murdered a mother and child at Ruby Ridge, which then spawned the Oklahoma City bombing. Our government leaders and the FBI have blood on their hands. Makes you think that the Secret Service boys going Ho-hopping are just a bunch of Boy Scouts!
You forgot the FBI mass murder at Waco.
Islam is a cancer of the world. It slowly eats countries from the inside out. Lack of awareness and ignorance is to blame so harden the heck up America. FBI have their reasons.
I don't care what their reasons were. Nor do I care if Koran passage 61 or whatever says "thou shalt blow up Americans until either they or us is gone".
You don't treat American citizens this way. We have rights, and those rights are what keeps the government from abusing us. The more we let them violate those rights in the name of "security", the further they can go and the less information they have to offer, until the point that corrupt officials can order their enemies arrested on false charges or have whistleblowers kept out of the country, or even killed.
It's atrocious.
SF, I'm sure he's Muslim first and American second or third.
God Bless the FBI. If he is a Muslim, he shouldn't even be in the US, period!!! Keep him out of this country and that is one less we have to worry about. George Washington, Ben Franklin, T Jefferson, Booker T., Abe, etc etc would have NEVER allowed this kind of crap in this country. Ask yourself this. Why does anyone who is not christian want to be here? If the answer is because we are free, THAT IS BECAUSE OUR CHRISTIAN BLOOD has been spilled to keep it that way. If muslims can't make their homeland livable, why the f*** come over here and ruin what we worked for!
"THAT IS BECAUSE OUR CHRISTIAN BLOOD has been spilled to keep it that way"
Makes me feel good about the Jewish blood I spilled in the Gulf War
So True. Of Course the same thing can be said for Christianity, and EVERY other religion that is allowed to function as a Government.
The ONLY REASON that Christianity is an even semi-reasonable Religion, is it has been removed from Government in the world.
One needs to look no farther than the Crusades to see what Christianity is capable of when used as a government.
And 1000 years from now, when Islam has been removed from governments around the world, it will become a semi-reasonable Religion too.
(That is assuming that the peaceful, loving, and Jesus-like Christians like "Ddotherightthing", "Wlee", and "Sgation" have not exterminated them all.)
See, Afghan, there's your problem, Jesus was Jewish, therefore some Christians (usually the loudest) feel no need to actually emulate him...
Warvet,
If you think Christianity has been 'removed from government', you are naive. Ever been to Italy or Ireland? In Indiana, you cannot buy beer at the grocery on Sunday. Auto dealers cannot open for business on Sunday. These blue laws are part of government, and I'm pretty sure they were influenced by Christianity. Is Christmas a national holiday in many western nations?
There may not be any Inquisitions in progress, but there is still plenty of Christian influence in government.
I agree whole heartedly. If the FBI thinks he's a threat, I'll back them anyday.
Where is the evidence he was in any way tortured and by whom?
Christian influence yes, Christian rule, No. I am referring to the Church itself acting AS the Government as a whole, not voters electing officials that have Christian Ideals. There is a vast difference there. If you think that the Christian Church IS the U.S. Government, you are more than naive, you are confused.
And Ireland is a great example of what I am referring to. While the Irish Catholic Church is not the Government of Ireland, it still holds much more power than the church here in the U.S. How much bloodshed is there (or has there been in the last 50 years) in Ireland, in the name of the Church?
The point I was trying to make is, the more power a Religion has, the more evil it becomes. Many people here think that Islam is an evil Religion, but it simply isn't. It is the power that Government officials hold by through distortion of Islam that is evil. When Christianity WAS the government, we had Inquisitions, and Crusades.
Hisdudeness,
Touche.
....this is a dark day for America."
Not really.
YES, really. If you don't believe in American ideals, go away and stay away!
I say he can live in Sweden. Let him be their problem.