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Subscribe to RSSFour Houston teens have been charged with killing a homeless man who had just $1 on him when he resisted being robbed.
The youngest of the accused, a 16-year-old girl, told police they had found $2 on Pedro Miguel Rosales Ramos, 32, but police later determined that she had seen a single dollar bill torn in half, the Houston Chronicle reported.
"They killed a man for a one dollar bill torn in half," said Houston Police Sgt. Brian Harris.
Police said one of the teens, Carlos Fernandez, 18, confessed to the killing and that the four had initially talked about robbing prostitutes but changed their minds when they came across Rosales Ramos on April 4.
Fernandez, Marilyn Villarreal, 18, and Michael Correa, 17, went before a judge Wednesday on murder charges. The 16-year-old has also been charged but not named because she is a minor.
Police noted that the four came from what most would consider good families, KHOU-TV reported, particularly the 16-year-old.
"She’s sitting in a queen-size feather bed, watching her 32-inch plasma TV and living in the lap of luxury," Detective Fil Waters said in describing the girl's surroundings at the time of her arrest.
None of the suspects have shown remorse, Waters added.
"There were some tears, but not for Pedro -- for themselves," KHOU-TV quoted him as saying.
Two of the teens are also suspected in at least one recent home invasion robbery in the Houston area, Click2Houston.com reported.
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Their lives will be different now ....
And not in a good way ....
Yes, their lives are changed forever. These arrests will terminate some of the "home invasions and robberies" in the area:
And the young lady can forget about watching a 32-inch plasma TV by herself or sleeping on a feather bed:
And the "young lady" even fired a weapon during this ordeal, and shot herself in the leg.
Guess we MIGHT hear the rest of the story at a later date.
Teenagers today need a reminder... You want to be an adult.. act like an adult. You commit the crime of an adult, your punishment will be that of an adult. Simple as that.
sociopaths dont even deserve prison.
sometimes I wish the hunger games was real, only we put worthless scum like this in the arena.
the winner, gets to spend life in prison.
of course, after a fair and speedy trial. naturally.
Stupid is as Stupid does.
Enjoy the rest of your lives in a sheet hole!!
These are VERY, VERY, COLD, cold, cold hearted young people, who have set themselves up for a very long angry and arduous ride down a very bad path. It shows their callous disregard for human life. No values, no honor, no peace. They all will suffer greatly for this horrible deed.
I am a total advocate for rehabilitation for the very young, in many cases, but the individuals in this case seem very hollow, without soul and without fear or regard for the needs of the most vulnerable needy people. If anything, they should have been GIVING the homeless man a $1 bill. I think they all need to be dealt with severly, and with haste.
Jessica, You would be thinking more Battle Royale in that case. Same story only they sent the "problem" class. Great story actually...
Once again proving the death penalty in Texas does nothing to deter murder, if anything it sends a message that life is cheap.
Yes I'm sure that is exactly what was going through their minds as they killed him "it's ok to kill him because Texas has the death penalty for murderers and therefore life is cheap"..............Priceless
Baddog
It may not deter, but it sure as hell keeps them from doing it again.
Can anyone say Mr & Ms BUBBA?
gtouch is obviously clueless about human psychology, now please go get your daily dose of Rush so you know what to think for the day.
Say Good bye to life in the " Lap of luxury ".
Lock these animals up for life!!! They are not fix to EVER live amoung the rest of us agian.
They should publicly shoot each of them in the face - In front of their families.
Solutions: 'Bubba' in their case would be more like becoming a Mexican Mafia gangsta's 'bitch.' Souless, spoiled little @!$%#es.
Baddpg: Perhaps you should go study on the death penalty, as a deterrent, not necessarily, as a removal of trash, priceless. Sorry you have to 'hate' on Texas, lots of other states have the death penalty so as an opportunity to 'dis' Texas, well, weak and somewhat puerile. Now go get a dose of Media Matters to calm yourself down.
Putting aside the terrible crime, how can anyone be that dumb to target a homeless person for robbery? What did they think they were going to get off of him. So senseless. They'll have the rest of their lives in prison to think. Hope they get what they deserve. It's amazing how violent crimes seem to be committed by younger and younger people. Just the other week a 16 year old was arrested I think maybe in Florida for killing a woman and her kid during a robbery attempt. I was playing video games and worrying about getting my license when I was that age, now kids are robbing and murdering people.
Their victim was a homeless man. Someone they knew didn't or wouldn't have any money. They weren't looking for money, they were out looking for power and inflicting their will on someone else. While doing so they had absolutely no conscience nor mercy, no respect at all for the life of another human being. They can lie about the robbery all they want. They are animals and will be treated as such from this point on.
If they're rich kids, it's highly unlikely they'll do life behind bars - it's not the severity of the crime, but the ability to afford a good lawyer and expert psychologists that determines the severity of the punishment.
I hope they all get life behind bars, but I seriously doubt they will. A shrink will come up with some "disadvantage" in their life, and the lawyer will spin it as a prank gone bad rather than a deliberate attempt to kill, and the DA, without pressure from the victim's nonexistent family breathing down his neck, will eventually do a plea bargain to take it off the plate.
Solutions,
Why are you insulting the Bubba's of the world?
In case you're wondering these kids are not immoral. They clearly and cleanly displayed amoral behavior. With a dash of total self obsession toward their selfish desires crossing over into the sadistic.
It is an interesting anacdotal case that if you take the guide rails off human beings they will immediately revert back to vicious little animals within a generation.
Now let's all try to guess the origin of the family line here?
Too bad they can't fire up "Old Sparky". These punks need to feel some pain on their way out. Instead of just falling asleep before their hearts stop. And I use the term 'Hearts" for this group loosely!
Watch what happens to all of these people--nothing. Their youth and the interventention of the ACLU with explanations of their exploited Hispanic backgrounds with plea bargains will get them off to do it again.
Not to worry some bleeding heart will see to it they have rehabilitated themselves and will be released to kill again.
Lived in Texas all my life, went to school with lots of Mexicans and have several friends that are. But the Mexican kids are mean especiallly when they are in groups, this has always been the case. Texas is overun with these gangs of Mexicans and it becoming more and more dangerous. They are committing more and more robberies with guns. It is time to clean this mess up at least in Texas, California is bout the same is my guess maybe worse.
I am glad scum like these will be locked up for a long time but I would rather see them hang.
I'd like to touch on this for a minute.
How is it that the law can punish children as adults when they commit a crime?
Why does society try to view children as adults when they commit a heinous crime, but not for purposes of voting, alcohol use, or other various things that are illegal for minors to do?
Either a child is a child, or they're an adult. I don't get why the law tries to blur the line when it comes to crimes.
Baddog: "Once again proving the death penalty in Texas does nothing to deter murder, if anything it sends a message that life is cheap"
GTouch: "Yes I'm sure that is exactly what was going through their minds as they killed him "it's ok to kill him because Texas has the death penalty for murderers and therefore life is cheap"..............Priceless"
You know what's truly priceless?--human life. You don't get it GTouch--Baddog said nothing re: these teens thoughts. He said the death sentence sends a message life is cheap. It does.
Jesus told us THOU SHALT NOT KILL. Period. And don't forget Jesus was killed by the death penalty. Think about it--IF YOU DARE!
Thank you Baddog--you give me hope for the human race.
I just hope they have enough hard evidence to at least keep these monsters locked up. They show a total lack of morals and should never be allowed to roam free.
Some Guy - I believe that "children" are treated as adults because of the danger they are likely to pose to society if they are charged as a minor and get out in a year or two.
Children who kill someone seemingly just to kill someone shouldn't be out on the street after a year or two of "treatment". Especially those who show no remorse. The safety of those who would interact with them when they are released is more of a priority in my opinion than the rights of a 16/17 year old child willing to kill on a whim.
Not all kids are tried as adults... the decision to try a child as an adult isn't taken lightly. These are "children" who are viewed as a real danger to society.
Nutmegger, you are wrong. These kids are toast, the ACLU will do nothing for them. They will not get off. Clue up, the American legal system does not work like the right-wing mythology pretends it does.
txhorseman; yep, the Mexican and Colombian gangs make the inner city black gangs, look like social workers; they are mean, life is nothing to them, and they will kill just for fun, and they are pouring over the borders by the tens of thousands.
daryl,
Do all 50 states a favor and just shut up!
Jessica -
"Sociopath" is a name I think is often mis-used. But this time you hit the nail on the head. Their complete lack of remorse, the nature of their crimes, and complete disregard for others are so very very appalling, that sociopath is the only scientific word that might apply. The others I can think of would get me collapsed off netvine.
Bored teens or failed parenting?
Just one guy please take your racist bs to the local skinhead meeting, moron.
ErinsFire42, Imagine a huge scale with peace and brotherly love on one extreme (to the far left) while warring, murderous and stone cold hearts sit on the other extreme (to the far right). Those murderous and cruel teens sit very near the most extreme right. You, Baddog and I sit far left of center. Defenders and proponents of the death penalty must logically sit just as far right of center.
The distance between us and these murderous teens is vast. Do you suppose that the proponents of the death penalty even realize that their lust for blood revenge makes them much more like these cold-hearted killers than the majority of civilized society? Do you believe they think that big bad Texas IS the majority of civilized society? My conclusion is a resounding no to the first question and a likely yes to the second.
Group of spoiled brats, with parents that left them to their own vices, gave no guidance in life nor respect for others and now their kids will rot away in a prison cell for many years. To be honest, the parents should be right in there with them, because the teens wanted thrills. Thrills at the Price of a human life and their own freedom, so in my opinion the parents were accessories before the fact.
They killed with a hand gun.
So where's all the people crying innocent until proven guilty?
These kids should have said that the homeless guy looked suspicious and attacked them, it seems to work.
These kids are the poster children for post-natal abortion.
Ahem.
Unless Bubba's last name was "Sanchez", I kinda doubt that it was white trash that did this. Get your ethnic stereotypes straight, Solutions539! It was a bunch of cholo losers!
Either way, bring 'em to trial and hang 'em nice and high after they're convicted!
Ah, that vaunted liberal respect for nuance! You might as well say "You're either with us or the terrorists" while you're at it.
I'll say it, Shuklack. Innocent until proven guilty. There are cases where the wrong person is arrested, convicted, imprisoned and even executed.
It sounds like they have the goods on this gang, their crime rendered even worse by the fact that they appear to be from somewhat privileged upbringings, making this sound more like a thrill-killing than a robbery gone wrong. The state of Texas needs to conduct a fair trial, with the benefit of an aggressive defense. If guilty, they will have to deal with whatever punishment fits the crime.
Their moms and dads have to be so proud.
daryl,
Go find a mirror and repeat this phrase over and over, "I'm a puss!!!"
Drop the little ba$stards off on a deserted island and let the eat themselves to extinction.....no lose.
The death penalty is stupid in it's current form, and even the person that wrote the original law says so.
I have a better idea. Take these kids, and drop them off in Somalia.
This is pathetic!! But these are the youth that American society has created. Heartless, violent, murderous, with no remourse. The youth reflect us as a nation. No one cared about their lives, so they don't care about no one elses! The crimes of our children will get worse as time goes on.
Quick US News Media show pictures of these Teens when they were 12 year olds. Write an Article saying that Children could not have done this, they are not wanna be Gangstas that would be "Profiling" and "Racist". The homeless guy was bigger an adult, they were children that weighed less. Blame "Society" for their actions, they were doing this as self defense. Blame the homeless person for being there. Show a Police Mug shot of the Homeless person make sure he looks like a convict. Quick US News Media the teens are Minorities, call the Police Racists. Claim that the homeless person was an Illegal Alien. Claim that the homeless guy shot the girl, they took his gun away and beat him in self defense. Quick before the Court of Public Opinion adjourns.
Sling that sensationalist emotive sh!t US News Media.
If you read the Trilogy The Hunger Games: The Hunger Games (2008), Catching Fire (2009), Mockingjay (2010). You would change your mind really quickly.
What you are Talking about is the Japanese Movies, Battle Royale (1999, Uncensored Japanese version banned from US) and Battle Royale 2 (2003) that was copied by the Author of The Hunger Games, that lame excuse that The Hunger Games Author (TV writer) never saw Battle Royale and or Battle Royale 2 eventhough most Movie Critics were ranting Battle Royale is a Must See Movie.
At least Battle Royale had a reason for the Battle Royale. The young had to earn their worthiness to access the limited rationed Nation's Resources after a Complete Economic Collapse, Massive Unemployment, etc..
It was NOT a "problem" class that was selected for Battle Royale. An Entire Classroom of 7- 9th Grade Students were Selected at Random.
If you are going to use examples at least get it right.
What isolation ward have you been living in. This has been going on forever, to be initiated ("Made") into a Gang, children (tweenies, teens) commit a violent act like random Murder, random Rape then Murder (no victim(s) to testify), Robbery with Violent Assault, etc. with the other Gang Members being witnesses so that the initiated Gang Member will not testify against them for later acts.
The Florida "Hood":
US teen guilty of murdering 2 British tourists
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46885491/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Decades ago at California the Gang Members during the Initiation of new Gang Members were already driving with their headlights off at night. The first person to flash their headlight at them driving withtheir headlights off was the one they would chase down and murder. It was also not a good idea back then to work at a all night Convenience Store or Service Station, like a 7 Eleven or even be there as a Customer, if they (Gangs) needed cash, gas or wanted something to eat.
Because we, the 18 year olds that participated in the Vietnam War, earned the Right to Vote for the current ingrates. So we were already killing and mostly dying for this ungrateful Nation and ungrateful US Citizens during the Vietnam War and the grateful people of the Democracy of US Ally South Vietnam. At age 19, I had to be a mature 30 year old as a LRRP/Ranger Patrol Leader (those you lead can tell if you are acting mature or are being mature as a matter of their own survival), the US Military of those times (not the current politically correct, so US Military no longer a solution) straightened out my almost Juvenile Detention Center immature arse.
At most Nations other than the US, children that commit Adult Crimes, suffer the Adult Consequences.
What are you going to do, give them back to their Parents.
You cannot have it both ways, just like everyone arguing that Zimmerman a Hispanic is considered as Caucasian "White guy" and not a separate Race on Newsvine as well as US News Media.
Pull out a paper Map of the World, highlight "civilized society". Hint: The majority of the World is not what you would even remotely consider as "civilized society" by both population size and geographic size, that means "civilized society" is the Minority NOT the majority.
Just a bunch of spoiled brats trying to act like hardcore thugs and taking it too far. They deserve life in a jail cell. I hope mommy and daddy don't fight to get them a slap on the wrist. If they succeed, then Texas is sending a message that homeless people are 2nd class citizens.
How the hell are these kids finding time to rob homes and people anyway? If they have robbed several homes wouldn't they have to do that late at night or during the workday? Do they not have a curfew? Why aren't their parents looking harder to find out what they are up to? With all the technology we have today there is zero excuse to not know where your kids are at all times. The days of having to call home from a pay phone are over. Any mobile device has GPS. And software programs to track PC & Mobile usage are easy to find. You can know where they are and find out what the are talking about online. And don't try to tell me these kids didn't talk about their crime ring over their many devices. Kids talk about EVERYTHING over the computer!!! Parents need to stop assuming they raised little angels and start shaming their children when they act like thugs and bullies. If the parents here had bothered to find out what their kids were up to and leveraged some heavy grounding or military school then maybe this man would still be alive today! If they are that rich then they can afford to spy on their kids and rehabilitate them BEFORE things get out of hand.
Armando-1888053,
I would never dare plagiarise such a mighty statesman as Bush 43 (although I do enjoy "putting food on my children" when I am in a playful mood).
david-475776,
I did not suggest that the majority of the world represents civilized society. I merely said that the Great State of Texas does not represent the majority of civilized society.
Commonsense: Yes, you know all the people and citizens of the great state of Texas. What is civilized? Letting mass murderers free? Protecting the rights of the criminal, crying over the criminal, how they were treated badly and that's what made them the little pieces of crap they turned out to be? Always excuses for actions, never consequences. What about the victims of these crimes? Do they get any consideration in your 'civilized' society or are they inconsequential?
I know that the Great State of Texas prides itself on executing more of it's own people per capita than any other state or nation in the free world. I know that the proud and popular Governor of the Great State of Texas signed death warrants for convicted killers while disallowing modern DNA evidence that promised to establish their innocence.
I know that the Great State of Texas took it upon themselves to re-write history books(to be distributed to the entire nation's public school system) in an attempt to push their own political and religious ideology on America's impressionable youth.
i know that my early experience as a former 4 yr. old citizen(in the 50's) of the beautiful Galveston beaches are forever etched in my memory. I also know that many proud and hospitable Texans strongly disagree with their far right leadership. I know that the hill country in Texas is one of the most beautiful places on God's green earth. I know that San Antonio is a wondrous city with historic landmarks such as The Alamo that embody the true American spirit of real American heroes. I know that my brief 3 week return in the 80's only gave me a glimpse of the wonders of the largest state in the continental United States.
I do not disparage the territory of Texas or her gracious people, only the far right wing government that has taken control of her resources and political will. I have faith that the strong pioneer spirit of brave Texans will soon throw the decadent politicians across the Rio Grande or banish them to the lonely and inhospitable deserts where the prickly cactus will be their only audience.
Well, now, so you don't actually denigrate Texas, just the politicans? Your prior posts weren't too open about that, seems you were going after all the folks in the state.
Total sociopaths on their way to becoming serial killers. I don't care how old they are: they need to be locked up. Better yet, just kill the scum so us taxpayers don't have to pay for them to sit in jail!! People like this don't need to be on the planet.
More young lives wasted.
Sick.
Who do you think the parents will blame? It's a certainty none of them will blame themselves.
Parents of America (and the world): Your 'job' dosen't end the second they enter school. Your child's behavior is the direct result of your parenting (or lack thereof).
You're probably right.
While you raise a valid point, you have to remember that you can't always blame the parent for how the child turns out. If they are going to blame anyone it would be their selves. There is a word for it and it's called: Personal Responsibility!!!! And trust, you can raise your kids with what YOU thinks is good character, behavior, moral, and all the sweetness of a kitten. But you could still be raising the next serial killer!!!
Parents, wake the hell up and start doing your job!!!!!
These kids probably don't have a curfew, a family dinner time, and are probably ignored at home. These kids need more attention and their parents need to be constantly checking up on them and who they hang out with. This is freaking sick!
This kids are probably players of an infamous game that has the kid stealing cars and murdering anybody they find in their way for points. Many of us give this game as a present to our kids, it keeps them occupied but is great training for this kind of action. I bough that game for my kid and trew it in the garbage can the first time it was played, really sick game.
BYE BYE kids...enjoy the rest of your lives.
Kids all respond differently to discipline, especially today where they are witness to several different types responses to discipline at varying stages of a kids life. For many kids, the harder a parent pushes a kid to act responsible, the more IRresponsible the kid will respond as a means of resistance and "making a statement". Many kids today are "just bad" and beyond repair. Perhaps it came from an EARLY lack of discipline but they have crossed a threshold where a parent finds themselves "too late" and helpless to make a meaningful difference and all they can do is hope the kid survives and comes out the other side without a prison sentence or burial member. Yes, many parents of such kids can isolate a point where they veered and made bad decisions (or did nothing) that changed the trajectory of the kid's life and they should feel a sense of guilt and responsibility
My goodness, what a lot of speculators. The kids probably didn't have a curfew, the parents will probably blame someone else, etc. I'm sure we all have questions, but so many posters are so damning and negative. Parents often blame themselves, even when their children's behaviors are independent of of them (where did we go wrong, etc.). And, any parent worth anything can look back and find areas where they could have done better - but that does not mean the it was the parents' fault. The kids made a decision and they are responsible.
Parents will blame the schools, schools will blame the parents. No discipline anymore with our children. Don't want to mentally scar them right? Well look what you get when you let the children think they can do anything. Thanks for passing laws preventing parents and schools from disciplining wayward children. It's good to know they grow up thinking they can do anything.
Debra: You've been here a while. Haven't you realized by now that speculative contempt for the subjects of msnbc's spotty and sometimes inaccurate reporting is status quo? Many articles contain the barest inkling of facts, but that's enough. Most here love to condemn. Blaming someone is fun; makes us feel superior because we believe we're not like that.
In fairness to the blamers in this case though, it's hard to feel anything but contempt for these kids. Pawning it off on the parents may be unfair however, when we know next to nothing about their domestic situation.
Parenting starts at home and once they are 18, we have to hope and pray that we have done right by them, we can't control completely what they do once they are 18. However, there is too much "hands-off" parenting going on, too much of, "I am NOT going to get involved" really? Then those same parents have the nerve to act surprised when they find out, YEP, their kid was the one doing the bullying and all the other crap and making all the bad choices! Leaving it to someone else to raise and discipline your children, is irresponsible and just plain stupid! Also, having the "my kid couldn't have possibly been in the wrong here" mentality is completely ignorant!!!
We need to teach and make kids take responsibility for their actions! NO ONE is ever made to say sorry or made to take responsibility for their actions because, once again, it is always someone else's fault! One of the best things we can teach our kids today is to be responsible and accountable for their choices and actions!!! If teenagers are made to be humble, accept responsibility and apologize for their actions, chances are or at least hopefully, they will think twice next time!!!!
From the story, it appears that a kid in Texas is considered an adult at 17. They listed the name of the 17 year old but not the 16 year old.
I haven't heard of any serial killers that came from healthy, stable families.
I don't blame the parents in every case. Parents are NOT experts in raising kids, and parents often just repeat what they learned from their parents, passing it on to their kids. Sometimes you just have a bad apple. I know this from my personal experience with some of my own family members, as well as having worked with sex offenders.
Teens are very skillful at hiding their other life (as a teen) from their parents, acting one way at home. Kids indeed have two lives. They show one personality to their family while the other persona is acted out with their peers. If you think your kid wouldn't do certain things, THINK AGAIN, because you are probably wrong! It doesn't always mean they are 'bad' kids, but it does mean that they are STUPID.
I was SOOOOOOOOOO lucky that my son was such a good kid, aside of course from the regular teen issues like, clean your room, do your homework etc. It wasn't until he was an adult, that he shared with me, a few experiencess of sheer stupidity when he was growing up. Fortunately they were not experiences that were harmful to others. Naturally, I had NO IDEA about some of these things. We had a pretty good relationship while he was growing up, and still do. It's said that "Kids will be kids" and I believe that's true. Bad choices are bad choices, and some are far worse than others. There is no excuse for bad behavior, but there is always a reason behind it.
We had some (white) female college students living next door to us that could best be described as "thugs". The neighborhood and HOA complained to the owner of the house who kept saying "I know their parents. They all come from good homes. They couldn't possibly be doing all those things you people say".
Some of the most spoiled brats that I've ever run into come from "good homes". Too bad some homeless guy needed to die before people woke up to these little monsters.
I haven't heard of any healthy, stable families. Dysfunction is part of the human condition, some may feel they are above it, all are afflicted.
Thinknaboutit,
You haven't heard of any healthy, stable families because our colleges are cranking out too many graduates with degrees in social work or psychology. They have determined that every little thing we do has an ulterior motive and every one of us is crazy in some way. If we're too neat, we have a disorder; if we're too sloppy, we have a disorder. If we are a few pounds underweight or over weight, we have an eating disorder.
Texas courts can be VERY severe with adult criminals of this sort, and they probably will be.
Laura -
I know of one student from the University of Chicago that might weigh in on this issue. Just ait a little while.
Where is the outrage, four punks beat to death an unarmed, homeless hispanic man and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are nowhere to be found. Oh, the victim was not black, sorry, my mistake
They were promptly arrested and are answering for their crimes. Big difference.
@Ellis
I think you're mistaking Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton for Superman or Batman. Those guys dont just magically appear at the scene of every crime to dry eyes and fix injustices.
Did the kids get arrested? Yes? Are they going through the Texas justice system behind this murder? Yes?Is the story getting media attention (well you wouldn't be here snivelling about it so "Yes")
Then why are YOU bitching about it? Oh yeah, because they're black and that hurts your widdle, widdle feelings, huh lil' buckaroo?; sorry, my mistake
I realize you're just being a snarky power tool because you dont like the two civil rights reverends or black people or hominds standing upright (or using tools and possessing fire; whatever gets your protohumans riled up these days) but if you're all panties in a wad about this death then WTF ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT BESIDES BITCHING?
Debra-450533,
After retiring from the US Military the first time, the US Military was pushing programs for us to become Teachers. So that is what I did as my 2nd Career, Teaching at US Inner City Combat Zone Schools. And even then if you did ANYTHING to discipline the Students your arse was hauled off in handcuffs by the Police for Verbally Threatening a Student, some of the more "genius" students knew what would happen and turned this into a game of "dropping a dime" (calling the Police at the payphone) on the Teachers. It was common and NOT unusual for Parents to consider the Schools as Baby Sitters with NO Authority to administer any form of Discipline. Being like that Teacher (previous juvenile delinquent) in the movie, To Sir With Love, I gave a sh!t about my Students; so when their so called parents were too busy or did not want to show up for Parent Teacher Meetings I would risk my life and visit them at their homes. That 2nd Career of Teaching ended after I got Recalled to Active Duty US Military (again).
So sure you go be a Teacher at Inner City Schools, then say others are speculating about the lack of Parenting. There was also the Peer pressure on my Students by the minors that refused to go to school, and the parents did not give a sh!t were they were or what they were doing either, that "Peer Pressure" was daily arse whoopings as "Urkels", "Uncle Toms", "Aunt Jemimas", "Oreos", "Uncle Bens", etc.. So when my Students came to class without their books, homework, etc. and said that they "Lost those", I knew they got their arses beaten; when I would visit their parents about that, their lame excuse was the same thing happened to them and it "toughened them up".
So when I saw the 2010 movie, Lottery Ticket, kind of reminded me of the old days when I was a Teacher living at the projects. You can say stereotypes all you want, too bad, go see for yourself by living there (risk your own life).
Even England is creating this identical problem, tweenie/teen violence (Gangs, Murder, Rape, Beating to Death). And the Anti Gun British are finding out the hard way as either victims or deceased just how true "Only Criminals will have Guns" is. So now, just like during "The Troubles" (Ireland), the unarmed British Police are backed up with nearby Fully Armed British SAS.
Motive, $$$$$$$$$$$, not fix "injustices".
Demanding "Arrest and Conviction" is NOT Justice, that is Presumption of Guilt and Lynch Mob Psychology.
As far as Due Process of Law, Rule of Law, Law Enforcement Processes, Rules of Evidence.
Due Process REQUIRES, "Suspected", "Alleged"; Reading of Miranda Rights; Detention (Still NOT Arrest); again Miranda Rights Warning, Interrogation, "interview"; Release from Detention (no admittance of guilt by suspect in written statement, insufficient evidence); Law Enforcement Investigation(s)(Rules of Evidence); District Attorney determines if sufficient evidence for Arrest Warrant and Conviction; Arrest Warrant Issued; "Suspect" is Arrested and placed into Custody; Hearing(s) by Judge to determine Release of Suspect, Bound over for Trial or Bail; Trial Date determined by Judge; Jury of Unbiased Peers selected and vetted by Prosecution and Defense; Trial, if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a Unbiased Jury of Peers then Judge pronounces Sentence; the "Suspect" is then remanded into the Custody of the Marshall's Service to be taken to the Prison as a Convict (Finally Conviction).
The sequence of Due Process of Law, Rules of Law, Law Enforcement Procedures, Rules of Evidence were established so that YOUR Rights are protected, and you do not end up with a Lynch Mob or the Salem Witch Trials. As "Innocent Until Proven Guilty Beyond a Reasonable Doubt"; NOT Martin's Parents and News Media's "Guilty until proven innocent in the Court of Public Opinion".
By screwing up and going to the Court of Public Opinion First instead of consulting a Legal Authority (Legal Assistant, Lawyer, Attorney, etc.) Martin's Parents screwed up by saying "Murder", "Killer", "Arrest and Conviction", etc. as a Presumption of Guilt. By doing this the Defense can continually require anyone, Judges included, that heard what Martin's Parents said to be reclused from this Case as "Tainted" (Prejudicial). And the Investigators that also heard that their gathered evidence afterwards deemed not admissible as "Tainted Evidence". This would then result in "Doubt", and"Guilty Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" getting Zimmerman acquitted. The second reason for acquittal would be the Technicality of Zimmerman NOT being able to have a "Fair and Just" Trial by an Unbiased Jury of his Peers.
If you ever heard of False Arrest (before completion of Investigations with conclusive evidence), Defamation of Character, Liable, Slander, etc. that is what Martin's Parents were demanding. US News Media have been sued for even less things by not printing "Suspected Murderer", "Alleged Killer" and lost Hundreds of Millions in Lawsuits.
It's those "white hispanics" again.
a dumb @!$%# like you probably will find a way to blame obama for it
common troll....
And a dumb $!@%# like you probably will find a way to blame Bush for it. And it's spelled $!@%#, not @!$%#..
(awww.. just having fun here folks)...
Great Post Ghysty9.
Better get Al Sharpton down there quick.
I just KNEW someone was going to mention Al Sharpton. Ridiculous! But if he DID show up for this tragedy, he would speak out against the sort of crime these people committed against a person who was already down on his luck.
What daryl???? We speak English here brother, where one point leads to another.
I hope they get the time that they've earned themselves with this heinous act. I hope the victim has family somewhere, if not for anything, but to know they have lost a family member.
So, it appears that you hope that somebody lost a family member. If he had family, why was he on the streets?
Laura-313822~~No one is happy that a family has lost a member to murder. I think the person was just hoping that there indeed was someone out there who would know about their family member, and what happened to them.
MANY people on the street are mentally ill, and refuse treatment because they are too ill to know they need it. Some young ones have 'escaped' a very abusive family either sexually or physically. Some people are abandoned by their families, or rejected because they don't know how to handle the needs of their homeless family members. There are many reasons why people are on the street.
Are you suggesting that because he was homeless that he got what he deserved? That's pretty twisted.
one & only,
Quite a spin on what I said! That idea must have come from your mind because it wasn't in mine. Yeah, someone IS twisted!
It's the fault of our society. I don't know what that means but it usually gets kids like this off and back on the street . . . .
Laura-Lot's of homeless folks do have family somewhere. They end up out of touch for various reasons. Sometimes the homeless person may have mental illness and they take a long downward spiral and isolate themselves from everything and everyone that meant something to them for all kinds of reasons. Some become homeless due to job loss, as victims of abuse, death of parent or spouse and so on. Nobody deserves what happened to this man regardless of his "status" in society. Think you put the wrong spin on Wills post.
I want to know if he was a US Military Veteran, too proud to accept help and earned benefits.
That is normally how US Military Veterans are treated at the US, thrown to the curb and forgotten.
Over 23% of the Homeless were US Military Veterans (and the 23% is growning to over 1/4). Over 40% of homeless men are US Military Veterans, this too is growning to over 1/2 due to the Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military, President Obama as Commander In Chief: 80,000 US Military Personnel + 27,000 US Military Returning from the Wars + 10,000 US Military Returning from the Closed US Military Installations at Germany + 5 (Five) more Brigades all thrown on US Unemployment.
Numbers to be RIF'ed listed by Branch of Service at:
US Army: www.armytimes.com; USAF: www.airforcetimes.com; USMC: www.marinecorpstimes.com; USN: www.navytimes.com
Numbers of DOD Civilians Unemployed by President Obama's RIF:
http://www.federaltimes.com/
It was/is common practice for US Military Best Friends (A Buddy that would take a bullet or die for their Buddy, not the Civilian term for Friends) to tear in half a dollar bill, with each keeping one half.
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/03/19/en_0319_whitaker_480x360.jpg
This was not about robbing the homeless guy. This was a bunch of psychopathic kids who just decided they wanted to kill someone. They are predators who will become serial killers unless they are locked away for good.
Exactly, if the purpose of robbing someone is to get money, homeless people are not the way to go. (They're not known for having lots of money I've heard.)
zupercram ~~ EXACTLY right. These monsters targeted a totally vulnerable member of society, with no regard for life or liberty. They did it because they were callous, heartless, and because THEY COULD.
Yeah THESE are the fu-cking terrorists and you know what there are many more of these trash that walk around on this earth. We should spending our tax money fighting off these scum along with the hutaree, gangsters, white supremacists and etc.
Sociopath is the term to use.
Well there is not much difference between a sociopath and a terrorist anyway. There both bad and both need to be behind bars.
these kids are pathetic. kill them. 16+, you should atleast have a sense of right and wrong by the time you are 16.
They also have no remorse. There's no hope for "rehabilitation".
and we the Taxpayer will be on the hook.... for all of it.
9mm is cheap. Hell, I'll donate some.
Remind anyone of a certain Charlie Manson and his merry band of murders. Sorry, you made you bed now you should fry in it. Such a WASTE
Charlie Manson was one of the last criminals who were dealt with appropriately. He escaped the death penalty, but every time he's up for parole, he's refused. Now we keep finding reasons to feel sorry for the criminals and keep giving them more and more chances to victimize others.
I'm more afraid of these kids than I am Manson. Put them away for good.
Sociopaths are not curable. I have no hope for these.
Charles Manson decided not to show up at his recent parole hearing.
If they are "white hispanics", Al and Jesse will be there for the victim.
I doubt it since the victims name is Pedro Miguel Rosales Ramos!
And your point with that asinine statement??? The victim was a homeless man who did nothing to warrant his demise. I'm pretty sure that he would want someone to speak up for him being that he is dead.
Nice bigot. Only if the kids weren't arrested and weren't going to be charged and the police who were firends with the killers were trying to cover it up. apparently for you ignorance is bliss..
Howdy...
You are correct.
Being white hispanics would be canceled out by the victim being a white hispanic - at least in the eyes of Al and Jesse.
of the 4 suspects, one was white hispanic two were asian hispanic and the 4th was black hispanic. the victim happened to be hispanic hispanic. the white hispanic is being charged with a hate crime according to the local reports coming out this morning.
Adam - But that is only after the police arrest, prosecute, and jail the first 3 and let the white hispanic walk around free for about 2 month debating whether or not they should even press charges.
Death penalty. I so wish I were King.
You and someone else I know. Hint, not me, he's a narcissist, he's run by a cabal, he flies everywhere looking for vacation spots for his wife which neither of them pay for, and he's incompetent.
MR,
Are you talking about my boss, Dave?
What? Cheney wished to be a king? He was one, and had a jester to run the kingdom for him...
MR - you mean Newt Gingrich, right?
You work for Dave too? Holy crap batman, we better quit typing and get to work.
MR, it's funny how when romney and his money is mentioned you say" he earned it by succeeding in life" and when obama's free trips that come with the postiion he won come up it's all the sudden a bad thing. he earned it by succeeding in life and winning the presidency and all that comes with it.
Why was my comment collapsed? These boards are unaccountable idiots, kind of like some narcisstic, vacation hunting, egomaniac I know.
Hatr, who brought up Obama? Did you read that description of someone I know and think of him? Shame on you.
Tennis Jock: Thank God you're not King (and thank God you ain't God either)
You know what's truly priceless?--human life. Jesus told us THOU SHALT NOT KILL. Period. No exceptions--not for war--not for death penalty.
Let's not forget Jesus was killed by the death penalty. Think about it--IF YOU DARE!
ErinsFire42: And if he wasn't killed by death penalty he wouldn't have been able to die for our sins... think about it.
Mr. Hurter -
Mr. Obama's trips are not on his earned money; its on mine.
ErinsFire42 -
God said to Moses, and wrote it in stone, "Thou shalt not kill." Just correcting your quote.
Stop withholding the names of people who committed murder since they are a minor! It's time we stop protecting these kids. My bet is the girl with the family with money gets off the hook! Publish their names. They know they will be protected as minors!
Charged does not mean convicted. Minors should be protected, until convicted. Big difference.
NStiz: The problem is that if you publish it, then you will be forced to put the name of every minor that commits a crime. And you don't want that. I understand that the actions of this person are horrendous, but if you use this as an exception, it will become the norm before you know.
. . . . not to mention, these are ignorant children. They may commit crimes just to get attention. Let the courts handle this, not the media or vigilantes. I wish the media and vigilantes would stay out of the Trayvon case as well.
This bunch of pyscopath kids certainly got ALL the attention they could ever want now!!
Only one was a "minor" the others are 18 or older. I'm pretty sure they will all be tried as adults in a Texas court. They ain't kids! They are sociopaths and incurable.
I am in favor of all convctions and their consequences, even for misdemeanors, being published in the local newspaper. Public punishments have a deterent effect.
Seriously, juveniles have absolutely no respect for anybody and they don't care to what extremes they have "fun". Their mentors are the many & various reality phonies they watch on TV.
Well, when kids like the 16 year old girl in the article have every whim and desire catered to by their folks, when they are bombarded with non-stop reality shows like "My grossly expensive over-the-top Sweet 16 Party", anything with the Kardouchians, "Bad Girls Club", etc that reward crass behavior by making the show's troglodyte media-whore participants instant celebrities...it's no wonder they have no remorse after committing a depraved act like this murder.
They've deluded themselves into thinking they are more deserving of everything then the media cretins they see on the tube and internet.
Yet another case of over-indulged youth and the sociopathic sense of entitlement they now possess.
Pretty broad statement there, Lady. There are something in the range of a billion or three juveniles in the world, right? And you know how many of those...?
Turn the TV off! I did. Don't miss it a bit.
I guess the constant barrage of death, killing, and mayhem children are exposed to since birth is taking its toll. Combine that with parents who don't parent, and daily doses of seeing supposed role models lie, cheat & steal as a matter of course - I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.
These budding sociopaths will find out that real life jail is a lot worse than what they see on TV. Once that steel door slams shut, it shuts for good.
This has been going on as long as we've been on earth. It's not new, in fact, history shows its pervasive or at least happens in every generation.
Since Europe has directly suffered the atrocities of two World Wars in the last one-hundred years they should causing all kinds of murderous mayhem - but the free and entitled USA leads in capital crimes. I blame it more on the feeling of entitlement and utter lack of responsibility that is bred in to so many for the last few generations. Schools are dumbed down, tests are rigged, discipline and timliness are a myth, no one is held accountable, everyone gets a trophy, bullies have their self-esteem protected and victims are punished for fighting back. It's no wonder ones with sociopathic tendencies go off like this whenever they feel the urge. They've been conditioned to believe their feelings and needs outweigh all of humanity.
Jacques: "I guess the constant barrage of death, killing, and mayhem children are exposed to since birth is taking its toll."
EXACTLY!!!: We forget the laws of nature: We reap what we sow. It's like gravity--you cannot get around it--there are always consequences for actions.
Time to be responsible. Not just talk the talk (especially the "Jesus" talk) we must walk the walk and PRACTICE what we preach. C'mon people! Let's evolve!
MR: "This has been going on as long as we've been on earth. It's not new, in fact, history shows its pervasive or at least happens in every generation."
SO WHAT? Does that mean we're condemned to repeat this b.s. forever? NO! 200 years ago no one thought we could fly or go to the moon!
With your negative attitude why not just worship Satan and go straight to Hell??? We're halfway there already.
Erin stop. Seriously stop, whatever your belief system is, is exactly that, YOURS. Stop filling these threads with your beliefs, as they are not everyone's. I am not lashing out, I just don't believe that religious law(Any religion) should have anything to do with our judicial system
Really!?: As a secular atheist, I agree with you 100% about religion and the judicial system -- I was on jury duty 2 weeks ago and had to swear to God -- but I take ErinsFires42's comments as an ethical admonition rather than as a prescription for how we conduct the legal system (at least I hope that's it).
Lot of talk about it being the fault of parents. Why is it when anyone posts about Trayvon Martins dad not taking responsibility and grounding his son for his multiple suspensions do those that say that get called racists?? Had Trayvons dad took parental responsibility ,grounded him, and actually stayed home working on their relationship and Trayvons behavoral issues he'd still be alive today. Just saying..?!?!?!
really/Astro,
You talk of a belief system. I think we all have a "list" of beliefs we hold to, including you two. You may believe there is no God and that people's religious beliefs should stay out of our judicial system. I believe there is a God and that there is no judicial system without God's influence.
Why is it that you ask Erin to "stop"?? Why is it that her "beliefs" should be silenced and your "beliefs" should not. We each have a belief system. There should be no penalty for any of our beliefs just because they happen to be shared by a group (religious group).
It's the sickness that has invaded our society. Society does not treat the poor or the homeless as human beings anymore. There is a lot of hate toward the unfortunate so it's not surprising that a group of kids decide to kill a man without a face to take what he had in his pocket.
Where have you been? The occasional soup kitchen aside, the homeless have never been treated as human beings by society. This has always been the case in years past.
Jibaro & Demon
I have taken my kids to soup kitchens and know some of the homeless by name. Hopefully they will have some respect for these "brothers in Christ" as I call them.
These sociopaths are not poor, or homeless, or otherwise unwashed. They come from privledged families and upbringings. They are sociopaths and incurable.
Lock them up and throw away the key.
They are old enough to know right from wrong and should all be tried as adults and put to death!!!! I believe some people should not be allowed to live in our society-------
Maybe it was a gang- related crime and that was part of the initiation? What a shame that this man's life just amounted to two- friggin dollars. Sad, sad, sad.
RIP Pedro. :(
Good deal, Texas has the death penalty.
Break out the needles.
Feather bed. 32" plasma. A sense of entitlement perhaps? An "I'll get my way or else" mentality.
Life in prison for all of them. Rehab my @$$. No second chances, no chance for parole. Done. Finished. Goodbye. Including the 16 year old.
Bubba in jail cell 137 will be delighted to get an early Chrimmas present........no feather bed here but you will learn to miss what you had.
Thank goodness he didn't have a handgun or one of those poor children could have been injured or even killed!
lol
Instead of being hooligans and thugs, if they were shot, they would be portrayed as honor students and "typical teenagers" just being kids, children, some families babies. Babies viciously slaughtered by a mentally distraught homeless person. Love the tabloids... err... media.
I love how you people keep throwing the trayvon martin case comments in. You all hate al an jesse but they succeded because its on your mind.Thats all they were trying to do is bring it to people attention what injustices go on down south that are swept under the rug.You almost got away with it again, but jesse an al stopped you is that why your mad at them?
NOt everyone from "down South" is a bigot!!! I am white as rice and am completely on trayvons side. Your stereotyping people from the south as being prejudice makes you a bigot as well! When you assume someone from a certain region, race, or religion are all the same, you are no better than the people you are condemning.
Reverand Al has caused race riots that have caused daeth of innocent people. David Duke is a white racist and 95% or more of white people would never consider him a leader. Al Sharpton is a Black Racist, as are many black politicians who are current or former members of the black panthers, but way more than 5% of blacks consider him a leader, including blackthought32. Do you think MSNBC will give David Duke a TV show in a prime time slot?
That's the problem with many, not all, of the Trayvon supporters, they jump to the conclusion that people who are not immediately on Trayvons side are "bigots". That's sad and stupid.
I was merely pointing out the media bias.
Also, Al and Jesse are black separationists who are doing NOTHING except undoing what MLK Jr fought for. IT's disgusting. They are no better than the white nationalists.
Exactly!!
blackthoughts-All that Sharpton and Jackson accomplished is to further divide races. They, the black panthers and other radical organizations are on peoples minds becasue to some they're dangerous and some of the things that they call for are tantamount to calling for people to commit criminal acts. EX: tweeting (the wrong Zimmermans) Zimmermans address, putting out a "reward" (hit) on Zimmermans life. They are also on the minds of arm chair jurist, judges and executioners that won't be satisfied unless Zimmerman is found guilty of something and that will most likely cause trouble if the verdict goes the opposite way. Why are black on black or black on white crimes swept under the rug?? Why don't Sharpton and gang do something relevant to get their own race out of gang lifestyles etc...?? Casue it don't pay..right?? What did anybody "almost" get away with??? What have Sharpton and crew already gotten away with??
How about trying this: You take a life you surrender your life. Age does not mitigate the severity of the crime.
So by your logic: We should kill just about every man on earth then. Somewhere along the line damn near every one has killed something or another.
Every man man has "killed" potential kids every day. Usually in a rag or Kleenex
oner, in oklahoma in response to a life begins an conception law there was another proposal to make that a crime. it's basically to point out the hypocrisy of men telling women what to do with their bodies and thanks to a skit by the daily show it did a good job.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/08/421018/oklahoma-democrat-adds-every-sperm-is-sacred-amendment-to-personhood-bill/?mobile=nc
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/wed-april-11-2012-ricky-gervais the secpond section is on the oklahoma personhood law.
The 16 year old should be tried as an adult, and all 4 should be found guilty and sentenced to life in prison especially since they're only worried about themselves and not the person they killed.
Were the kids white and the man black? Or the man white and the kids black? Or maybe they all were like a Marble Rye bread with colors all mixed together? What is the speculation the media is now positioning? Media: "It's just too quiet. Must do something about that. Thank God someone is dead." I would not suggest Texas as a place to play with the law. They are needle savvy.
Death Penalty
Fry them!
crush em