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Subscribe to RSSThe U.S. Coast Guard is trying to recover the pilot after his plane went down after flying in circles for nearly three hours. NBC's Pete Williams reports.
A small plane with an apparently incapacitated pilot that crashed just after noon Eastern Time in the Gulf of Mexico Thursday has sunk, the Associated Press reported, citing Coast Guard officials. Crews flying over the site saw no signs that its pilot survived the crash, the report said.
The twin-engine propeller Cessna 421 went down Thursday about three hours after two F-15 fighter jets tried to make contact with the unresponsive pilot, who was thought to be the only person on the plane.
The pilot was identified as Peter Hertzak of Slidell, La., NBC station WSDU of New Orleans reported.
Coast Guard Chief John Edwards said the plane landed right-side up on the ocean surface and floating, but aircraft monitoring the scene did not see a life raft deploy and never made contact with the pilot, the AP reported.
Air traffic controllers alerted the Coast Guard after they lost radio contact with the pilot about 9 a.m. EDT. The aircraft was circling erratically over the Gulf of Mexico, according to Coast Guard District 8 Chief Petty Officer John Edwards in New Orleans.
Tracker shows plane's erratic flight path
Air Force jets dispatched to look into the plane were unable to see the pilot because of fog and icing that obscured the plane's windows, Coast Guard officials said. The icing is seen as a possible sign that the aircraft lost cabin pressure and the pilot was rendered unconscious.
A search-and-rescue operation has been launched to locate the Cessna. NBC's Pete Williams reports.
The two F-15s from the New Orleans National Guard were already on a mission over the Gulf, according to the AP report, citing a release from Edwards. The Jacksonville Air Traffic Control Center asked the military if jets could check on the plane, which was orbiting near one of Eglin Air Force Base's warning areas over the Gulf, Edwards said. Eglin is on Florida's Panhandle.
A federal official says the plane took off Thursday morning from Slidell, La., en route to Sarasota, Fla.
It flew until just after noon and then crashed into the water 120 miles west of Tampa, Fla., according to the U.S. Coast Guard.
Daniel Compton / airport-data.co
The Cessna that went down in the Gulf of Mexico Thursday.
In a search and rescue effort launched in the hours before the plane crashed, the Coast Guard dispatched an HC-144 Ocean Sentry from Mobile, Ala., an MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter from Clearwater, Fla., and the Coast Guard Cutter Coho, an 87-foot patrol boat homeported in Panama City, Fla., the Coast Guard web site said.
In a previous incident involving a "ghost plane,'' in 1999, the pilot — professional golfer Payne Stewart — and five passengers were incapacitated when their Learjet lost cabin pressure. The plane flew on for four hours before finally crashing in rural South Dakota. All six people were killed.
NBC's Pete Williams and Jay Blackman contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
A drugged up private plane pilot?
perhaps suicide.
Marchant...are you that nuts to 'assume' this pilot was on drugs? How do you know that; maybe he had a heart attack or other medical issue, or maybe he just died of natural causes. Your a idiot!
NJ john calm down. At this point it's safe to make any assumption you want until we get the facts. This guy could've been doped up...or maybe he had a heart attack. We don't know.
No point going around calling people names on here. Pretty sure that breaks the code of honor, or whatever newsvine calls it.
NJ - The correct response would be "you're an idiot"
Probably a medical condition like diabetic shock or heart attack.
On the video they commented that the icing was an indication of loss of cabin pressure, which would cause the pilot to black out.
It could have been drugs, it could have been suicide, or it could have been something medical, but until we know, y do u njjohn have to b rude to others??? there is no reason for that. Saying the pilot might have been "drugged" up does not mean illegal drugs! He could have been "drugged" up on his own Dr prescribed meds! Please think b4 u type...PLEASE!!!
heart attack you idiot! Or maybe aliens............... Dip wad. If you own a 2 engine Cena, ya probably have a lot to live for.....
So this must be similiar to the death of payne stewart. the icing on the windows indicates a loss of cabin pressure. In the Stewart case the pilots were reduced to unconscienousness by a failure in the oxygen generation system. The plane flew itself on auto pilot all the way into South Dakota before crashing on its own from lack of fuel
Killed himself?????????????? Why would you fly around crazy for an hour???????? Aliens got him i think... LMAO!
Decompression
Get off NJJohns back. Last time I checked, you may say what you want to. Not being rude, just saying what he thinks. Last time I checked, there is something called freedom of speech. I served in the military for 28 years to ensure that we are assured of that right among others!!!!!
The story says that the plane landed softly on the water-- that suggests a lot of skill was employed in landing the aircraft. The condition of the pilot will be known shortly, but for now the prognosis is good for the pilot's survival, as well as any passengers aboard. That is, as long as rescue craft reach the floating plane in time.
jm01596, suicide is only a guess on my part because all we know is the pilot was supposedly flying alone and over water 150+ miles from land. But who knows? Either way, whether it was a mechanical issue or pressure issue or engine issue or medical issue.........whatever caused it, its not surprising that if the pilot slumped over the controls and something rested on the controls the plane would continue to circle until it presumably ran out of fuel and crash.
WMG, that's good news! Didn't see that updated yet in the article but lets hope for the best!!!
I can't imagine explosive decompression overcoming people in an instant, having experienced it in a commercial flight (B727). They just dive the plane until below say, 8,000 feet and continue. They don't have a lot of time, but they have finite time. And that sort of decompression although a severe pain in the ears, is not incapacitating. But what do I know? Until the facts are in I'll assert the guy simply passed away and Cessna's superb design did the rest.
WMG, it says "Plummets".
The headline says "plummets". The story itself says "The plane landed softly in the water and was intact, floating right side up". Just reporters trying to grab your attention.
Loss of cabin pressure? Maybe but he had to be flying above 10,000 feet. Icing can occur at lots of different altitudes. The article says the plane entered the water softly and was still intact. Pilot was probably conscious when he went in, it doesn’t take much to break up a small plane in a water landing. This is all just conjecture until the coast guard gets on scene.
.
@NJ Why are you assuming that this pilot is on drugs? Do you have information that we don't, or are you just an intellectually lazy moron looking for an excuse to troll at the expense of someone who may be fighting for his life as we speak?
I love how some of you are attacking NJ for offering a theory that the pilot was on drugs, but you proceed to say that the pilot may have passed out. ALSO a theory and guess from you. Do you feel people can only offer opinions that you agree with? Should you be called names from everyone that disagrees?
I can't say I agree with either opinion since I have no facts, but I certainly wouldn't attack someone and call him names for offering one.
Carbon monoxide poisoning. Prayers for the family.
Diabetics aren't allowed to hold a pilots license. A heart attack or stroke, is still possible. So is contamination in the cockpit from smoke or fumes. There could be something that caused a lack of oxygen. The plane "crashed softly," according to the release, so an autopsy will be done on the pilot. Perhaps we all should hold our speculation to a minimum, so as to avoid appearing unintelligent.
About 6 hours ago the coast guard was 95 miles away.....no update?
I was just taking my wife on a short flight in our single engine non-pressurized plane when she pointed out our little stick-on CO (carbon monoxide) detector was black (should be yellow). We were only 15 minutes enroute so we just went back to the airport we departed from and checked the plane into the shop - likely it has an exhault leak someplace.
This is a serious threat though and since CO is odorless, tasteless and colorless it can sneak up on you pretty quick, levels above 500 ppm can incapacitate you in 5-10 minutes.
This aircraft with the water landing (not calling it a crash since it sounds like it made a controlled landing) was a Cessna 421 which is pressurized with a ceiling of around 30,000 feet. The other thing about the 421 is it is a twin engine and with the engines out on the wings and not in front of the cockpit like a single, the changes of CO getting into the cabin are much slimmer.
OMG Oakie, freedom of speech means you can't be prosecuted for what you say. It doesn't mean you can't be ridiculed. Per you definition of it only nj has the right to say what he wants to say, those responding to him don't have that right.
All,
Loss of cabin pressure would deprive the pilot of oxygen. Depending on your health, hypoxia can set in as low as 14.500 feet and can lead to unconsciousness or at a minimum loss of critical thinking. In fact you are required to be on supplemental oxygen if you are going to be above 12.5K feet for more than 30 minutes OR always if you are going to be above 14.5K in an unpressurized plane. That is why when you see WWII movies the pilots and crew are always on masks in fighters and B17's. I'm a little rusty on on my FAR's and too lazy to look it up, but I think I'm right about the numbers.
Another poster posited that it may have been carbon monoxide poisoning which could be a factor if this had been a single engine plane, but being that this was a twin, the engines are on the wings and it would be unlikely that the engine's exhaust got in the cabin.
You are correct. You are absolutely entitled by the Constitution to post the most retarded and idiotic comments imaginable. The same Constitution that gives us the right to point how idiotic and retarded your comment was.
A drugged up poster?
I love the stupid comment when it clearly says the F15 pilots saw iced windows which would lead to a drop in cabin pressure. Which in turn would cause the pilot to pass out. Moron.
NY John:
I will take your name calling me an Idiot with grace--NCOH rule against this non-meaning smear word in a debate. Personal Attack. When someone has nothing to contribute, it results in name calling.
Drug Cartels, drugs, the investigation is not begun. It is an assumption.
zorlock; best analysis yet; that particular , very expensive aircraft has a ceiling of about 30 thousand feet, if you lose cabin pressure at that altitude, (masks do not drop from the ceiling), you have only less than a half of minute, to reach down and get your mask on , and turn on the bottle. frosted windows looks like loss of cabin pressure .
Well, updated again-- rescue crews did not reach the craft in time and it has sunk... oh well. No happy ending today. My condolences to the deceased's family.
Modern aircraft will automatically take up a sustainable glide path until they hit the water if they do not have enough power to stay at elevation and no one is at the controls. buoyancy, if the plane does not break up on impact, will allow it to use it's wing tanks and other trapped air to stay buoyant and afloat. My Father put a 4 engine DC-4 into the Pacific Ocean after it lost 2 of it's engines, and it floated for 5 and 1/2 hours and he and his crew and passenger deployed a life raft and were picked up. This looks like the Pilot blacked out for some reason, regained consciousness enough to take the plane out of "auto pilot" and take in a lower altitude but then passed out again without re-engaging the autopilot that would have flown him untill the fuel ran out over Florida or beyond.
If he had a rapid loss of cabin pressure, he would have taken it into a dive to regain air, but, if he was sleeping, like many private pilots do in "Auto Pilot" on long trips and the cabin lost temperature control and oxygen slowly. while he was sleeping, and did not waken him until minimum levels we reached for the alarms to sound, then it is possible he might have woken up just long enough to take the plane out of Auto pilo, reduced throttle and put it into a dive before he lost consciousness again. The plane would have re-leveled it's self but the reduced throttle would have not been able to maintain "strait and level" flight long. All kinds of alarms would be going off in the cockpit until it finally hit the water.
It would sure be nice if aircraft could have a "Dead man Switch" that unless an input is received, when prompted during "Auto Pilot", the aircraft would automatically descend to 8,000 feet and take up a new heading toward land and the nearest airport then circle it and emit a mayday. Then if there was no response, a code could be given, issued by the Aircraft manufacturer that would turn it into a drone that could be landed safely by the tower.
Another progressive Senator getting Wellstoned ?
Coming to Florida? Nah... teadouchebags...
Wow! What a jerk "type" response. Hi, Jerky! : >E)
And it took off from Louisiana - the state where the largest city has a population of people that aren't even bright enough to get out of the way of a hurricane. But don't let little facts like that get in way of your liberal rant, right (un)justice?
It is necessary to tell you political apparatchik hirelings we speculate about some poor guy's death here. Keep your lame political jabs to yourselves.
10tacle, well actually most of New Orleans did get out of the way (only an estimated 27% stayed behind claiming poverty as the reason) along with the millions who live south, east and west of New Orleans. But don't let facts cloud your preference for generalizing the stupid acts of a minority.
Ok, one comment thread started by a right-wing idiot assuming this guy is on "drugs" for some reason. Then another comment thread started by a left-wing idiot implying some sort of Republican conspiracy to sabotage airplanes.
Why do the politically-obsessed nutjobs always dominate any conversation these days?! This is not a political story! This is a story about a pilot who somehow became incapacitated and may now either be dead or fighting to stay alive. It could have been drugs, or it could have been loss of cabin pressure, a heart attack, a stroke, head injury, etc.
What we should be doing is hoping for his survival, if he's still alive. Stop trying to politicize EVERYTHING! It's disrespectful, intellectually lazy, and just plain pathetic.
Kris, you said what I and many others here are feeling right now about those who cannot and will not leave politics out of every story that comes down the pike. Their incessant need to spew their vile bile is tiresome. They must be absolute hell to live with.
justiceforall wrote, in response to a comment about a drugged liberal:
justiceforall-2038290
Coming to Florida? Nah... teadouchebags..
NY John:
I will take your name calling me an Idiot with grace--NCOH rule against this non-meaning smear word in a debate. Personal Attack. When someone has nothing to contribute, it results in name calling.
Drug Cartels, drugs, the investigation is not begun. It is an assumption.
You guys are dipsh1ts
ANYWAYS....any pilots on here that can chime in? If you're flying at that high an altitude in that size plane that if a cabin leak does occur, is it "instant death", or do you have a minute or two to try to get lower?
I would figure you'd just be cruising along at a height where you wouldnt even need to worry about cabin pressure in that little thing
The Cessna 421 can fly at 30,000 ft. In these rapid depressurization situations, the plane can lose all its air pressure incredibly fast, like in 10 to 15 seconds. Then, even if a pilot is able to quickly dive to below 12,000ft, it would take a while to naturally re-pressurize the cabin - not like you can just open a window on this plane. Of course all this is why there are oxygen masks on pressurized aircraft. So, like the Payne Stewart situation of 1999, this situation would seem to involve not just cabin depressurization but an oxygen mask system failure as well.
D.Man
NO to instant death but just as good. Rapid decompression might actually be better than a slow leak. With the rapid decompress you KNOW you have a problem. Rapid decompress would give a pilot 30 seconds to maybe two minutes to don oxygen. A slow leak on the other hand would sneak up on him.. Lack of O2 would make him drowsy and lose consciousness.
Depending on the auto pilot installed and features in use, the plane would at minimum maintain altitude... until it ran out of gas. The circling was most likely from him upsetting directional control and placing it in a turn as he slumped over. That scenario would work with the landing on water as the auto pilot attempted to maintain level flight. Even without auto pilot the plane would have been trimmed to fly straight and level with minimal control.
The FAA has training centers where pilots can be "taken to altitude" then remove their O2 mask to experience how quickly they lose it. Smoking, alcohol, obesity drastically cut down useful response time.
For those who are bored or have insomnia
http://www.dr-amy.com/rich/oxygen/
Modern aircraft will automatically take up a sustainable glide path until they hit the water if they do not have enough power to stay at elevation and no one is at the controls. buoyancy, if the plane does not break up on impact, will allow it to use it's wing tanks and other trapped air to stay buoyant and afloat. My Father put a 4 engine DC-4 into the Pacific Ocean after it lost 2 of it's engines, and it floated for 5 and 1/2 hours and he and his crew and passenger deployed a life raft and were picked up. This looks like the Pilot blacked out for some reason, regained consciousness enough to take the plane out of "auto pilot" and take in a lower altitude but then passed out again without re-engaging the autopilot that would have flown him until the fuel ran out over Florida or beyond.
If he had a rapid loss of cabin pressure, he would have taken it into a dive to regain air, but, if he was sleeping, like many private pilots do in "Auto Pilot" on long trips and the cabin lost temperature control and oxygen slowly. while he was sleeping, and did not waken him until minimum levels we reached for the alarms to sound, then it is possible he might have woken up just long enough to take the plane out of Auto pilot, reduced throttle and put it into a dive before he lost consciousness again. The plane would have re-leveled it's self but the reduced throttle would have not been able to maintain "strait and level" flight long. All kinds of alarms would be going off in the cockpit until it finally hit the water.
It would sure be nice if aircraft could have a "Dead man Switch" that unless an input is received, when prompted during "Auto Pilot", the aircraft would automatically descend to 8,000 feet and take up a new heading toward land and the nearest airport then circle it and emit a mayday. Then if there was no response, a code could be given, issued by the Aircraft manufacturer that would turn it into a drone that could be landed safely by the tower.
It would sure be nice if aircraft could have a "Dead man Switch" that unless an input is received, when prompted during "Auto Pilot", the aircraft would automatically descend to 8,000 feet and take up a new heading toward land and the nearest airport then circle it and emit a mayday. Then if there was no response, a code could be given, issued by the Aircraft manufacturer that would turn it into a drone that could be landed safely by the tower.
Sounds great except the rockies are a bit taller than 8000. How much would that cost exactly? 30k plus for a decent GPS/Comm stack? Now add a TAWS? Who in the control tower do you suggest take the controls? Do we really want an uncontrolled circling an airport with transport category aircraft around?
Better to scramble the F-15 or other military aircraft. If it needs a shoot down so be it.. the pilot and passengers are likely dead by time they arrive. yeah yeah sounds cold until one of those "ghost" flights runs into population. Pilots know the rules and should know the consequences for failing to do proper flight planning and preflight.
Great show of humanity there trust_verify. 30k for a system that may save a life? I guess it would be cheaper to dispatch a warplane and blow a fellow American out of the sky for the "potential" hazard they may impose. Maybe, how much does it cost to send an F-15 to kill a pilot in distress? You probably think it's more practical for soldiers to execute their wounded rather than risk the safety of others to try to get them life saving medical assistance. I feel for anybody who counts on you to have their back.
Keith-1211248
That is the price of EXISTING GPS systems. A self programming autopilot with DEAD MAN switch would be far more expensive thn the GPS. The reality is that a pilot will lose consciousness on a rapid decompression in under two minutes if they are not provided with supplemental O2 immediately. If they have had a slow leak they rarely know they have a problem and simply pass out. The brain can only last 3 to 10 minutes without O2. Then you are DEAD. If the pilot does not take immediate action, donning O2 mask and descending to an altitude where there is more O2 pressure they are DEAD. They aren't shooting down a person they are shooting down an unguided missile looking for someone to kill.
Maybe, how much does it cost to send an F-15 to kill a pilot in distress?
The pilot is not in distress by time the F-15 arrives. If the pilot is non responsive they are dead. Minimum of 15 minutes for ATC to determine the aircraft is not responding, that is the most normal check-in cycle. They start a radio search some time after that... Soooo in a perfect world they can't even request a fighter go look until someone has been out of touch for 20 minutes unless they happen to be heading into restricted air space.
As to cost of a fighter intercept and shootdown? What is your loved ones life worth compared to a million dollar airplane with a dead pilot? Now have that plane take two people out on the ground or a passenger plane full of passengers in the air.
Bottom line... by time fighters intercept a ghost plane odds are if there is no response to the intercept everyone on board is DEAD.
WIA are alive and breathing.. We rescue WIA. KIA are dead, we recover the dead AFTER we have protected and saved the living.
The interceptors don't just go out and shootdown.. read the story. They flew out and attempted contact. There are procedures that EVERY pilot is required to know about intercepts. If anyone is responsive, the interceptor will be able to determine that. If no one is responsive the priority is protecting the LIVING.
Let me guess you are one of those nanny state types that think society should protect everyone from their own stupidity. Simply because of a few very rare accidents you feel we should spend BILLIONS of dollars in prevention. Anyone who knows me is happy to have me at their back. They know I won't stab them in the back. Nor will I steal their wallet when they are down. You are reaching for it while they are still living and fully aware.
With the fog and icing on the windows, it sounds a little like the Payne Stewart incident from years ago.
Same thing I was thinking.
That's exactly what I was thinking. As the wife of a pilot, it's horribly scary and sad - whatever happened.
Yep, definitely indicative of cabin depressurization and associated hypoxia. Unfortunately because the crash is into the ocean, there might be less evidence to sift through than the Payne Stewart accident. Since the aircraft is not operating as a commercial flight, it probably doesn't have flight recorders either, but we'll have to wait and see what the NTSB says.
Dan, it said The plane landed softly in the water and was intact, floating right side up.
But it sank.
Isn't it interesting how it landed itself "softly in water". With proper trimming, small planes do that. When in doubt, caught flying into IFR ,when only VFR rated, best thing is take hands.... and feet, off the Controls. 'Graveyard Spiral' is conquered the same way...if enough altitude. Seems like the US Govt could learn a thing or two, Take hands OFF controls.
Oh yes, it was a tragic loss of a great Learjet.
Modern aircraft will automatically take up a sustainable glide path until they hit the water if they do not have enough power to stay at elevation and no one is at the controls. buoyancy, if the plane does not break up on impact, will allow it to use it's wing tanks and other trapped air to stay buoyant and afloat. My Father put a 4 engine DC-4 into the Pacific Ocean in 1953 after it lost 2 of it's engines, and it floated for 5 and 1/2 hours and he and his crew and passenger deployed a life raft and were picked up. This looks like the Pilot blacked out for some reason, regained consciousness enough to take the plane out of "auto pilot" and take in a lower altitude but then passed out again without re-engaging the autopilot that would have flown him until the fuel ran out over Florida or beyond.
If he had a rapid loss of cabin pressure, he would have taken it into a dive to regain air, but, if he was sleeping, like many private pilots do in "Auto Pilot" on long trips and the cabin lost temperature control and oxygen slowly. while he was sleeping, and did not waken him until minimum levels we reached for the alarms to sound, then it is possible he might have woken up just long enough to take the plane out of Auto pilot, reduced throttle and put it into a dive before he lost consciousness again. The plane would have re-leveled it's self but the reduced throttle would have not been able to maintain "strait and level" flight long. All kinds of alarms would be going off in the cockpit until it finally hit the water.
It would sure be nice if aircraft could have a "Dead man Switch" that unless an input is received, when prompted during "Auto Pilot", the aircraft would automatically descend to 8,000 feet and take up a new heading toward land and the nearest airport then circle it and emit a mayday. Then if there was no response, a code could be given, issued by the Aircraft manufacturer that would turn it into a drone that could be landed safely by the tower.
Exactly.
ladonna said what I was thinking.
Reminds me of the Kennedy plane crash. :/
How so? Kennedy crashed because he lacked experience flying on instruments and became disoriented without a visual reference point. This plane suffered a depressurization event.
Because in both cases a plane was involved? I know the Director of Central Intelligence. Maybe I should ask him to contact you.
LOL
The Kennedy crash was pure pilot error.This looks more like a mechanical failure that incapacitated the pilot. They will have to recover the black box to find out.
Black.Knight-48
Would that be his black lunch box? Light twins rarely have voice/data recorders. IF the memory survived on the GPS they might get a little data out of it. Not sure how much beyond navigation though as the plane was flying for over 3 hours after it became a ghost. The only "box" on board would be the ELT which would ping the satellites until it sank or ran out of battery.
the U. S Coast Guard is a true blessing--and a very skilled part of our military.
What a joke. Must have gone to the scene with a pair of tree trimmers to help out.
So Julia, a military training contractor does something you don't agree with and you throw the baby out with the bathwater? The CG may very well have saved this man's life, and even if not, they were the best chance he had. Far from a joke I'd say.
yes, thank god for their maritime expertise.....where would the DOHS be without the beloved coast guard
cough <not military> cough
As an Agnostic, I would dispute the word "blessing" to describe them. The Coast Guard is not a "gift from God," it's an organization that was formed through the hard work and determination of mortal humans like us. And it continues to be exemplary due to the selfless sacrifice of those who dedicate their lives to protecting our shores, particularly considering the fact that they tend to, unfairly I believe, garner less respect than the other branches of the armed forces.
@Julia Grow up. My uncle served in the Coast Guard most of his life and did more to help this country than you or I ever will.
Still a branch of the military, just not part of DOD.
Actually, they are part of the Dept. of Homeland Security, not the Military.
Completely different agencies, trust me I work for DHS
Kris Craig wrote: As an Agnostic, I would dispute the word "blessing" to describe them. The Coast Guard is not a "gift from God," it's an organization that was formed through the hard work and determination of mortal humans like us.
While I respect your right to be agnostic, the majority of people believe in some type of God and those who need help from the Coast Guard are praying for a miracle to be rescued. If people are in the water out in the middle of nowhere because their boat sank in a storm or whatever their situation might be, most people will either be praying to God for a rescue, or maybe even cursing God for what happened. But when the Coast Guard shows up to rescue them most of them will be thanking the Coast Guard for their bravery and thanking God they found them.
Trust me, I enlisted, went to boot camp, served, am now a veteran, received GI bill benefits, received GI home loan benefits, etc. And all that from service while we were under the Department of Transportation and the DHS.
Also, the military is not an agency, the DOD is though.
The Coast Guard is one of the Armed Forces of the United States. That means they are military. Just not part of DoD.
Dam dude, if you add an N to your name, we'd be twins!
Vid Adornovia Facebook
LOL the last line is an oxymoron in and of itself.... TRUST the DHS???????
Anyhow.. from the USCG.MIL website.... notice the MIL there. unlike dhs.GOV
The U.S. Coast Guard is one of the five armed forces of the United States and the only military organization within the Department of Homeland Security.
also
In times of peace we operate as part of the Department of Homeland Security, serving as the nation's front-line agency for enforcing the nation's laws at sea, protecting the marine environment and the nation's vast coastline and ports, and saving life. In times of war, or at the direction of the President, we serve under the Navy Department.
Good post @ Trust Verify
The Coast Guard are indeed military. USCG was also used in Vietnam many times to patrol water ways and even saw combat.
TVM Mike.
Rapid decompression comes to mind. Windows don't ice up without a reason. And no, his AC would not have done that. The plane was at about 25,000'. Not a helluva lot of oxygen up that high.!
Yes, that's what they said on the video.
That's pretty high for a private propeller airplane, I wonder if he was that high on purpose
Service ceiling on a C-421 is 30,000 - so no big deal there. What generates your thrust whether it be pistons, turboprops or jet engines: altitude is a non-factor. Certainly the type of flight wheter private or commercial makes even less of a difference.
On any of these types of aircraft a depressurization or loss of a over-the-nose/mouth O2 system at anything over 20,000 feet is a serious issue. Also the loss of oxygen per 1,000 feet is not a linear thing, but exponential. The difference between O2 levels at 20,000 versus 25,000 feet is more of a difference than 0 to 20,000 feet.
Well, being that he was crossing the gulf of Mexico, several hundred miles from shore, the pilot would want to give himself a wide berth should he lose an engine. Gives you more time to react to an emergency.
Also given that he was flying in an easterly direction, the direction of the prevailing winds around that area, he may have wanted to get the best ground speed possible by riding the winds aloft.
These are all conjectures BTW. Just a couple of plausible reasons.
Payne's plane was a Jet and it was at 90k feet. so with a small crack....no air and its' 50 below.
This is not that type of plane!
Hey Hal, you may want to re-think that one. Private jets fly around 35,000-40,000 tops. You're talking SR-71 an U-2's...!
What commercial airplane cruises at 90K feet? Heck, are there any military aircraft that can even fly that high?
My point exactly Sam. If our military has one that flies that high, it's news to me.!!!
Sam, SR71 could reach 120k feet. At least that is the unclassified info on that plane.
Wasn't the loss of oxygen in Payne's plane gradual, thus preventing his noticing it?
@Hal,
His plane reached 51,000 feet or so.
For what it's worth, there *IS* air at that altitude. The problem is the decreased partial pressure of oxygen. And the temperature would be around 70 deg F below. Plus, what evidence do you have that a crack was involved?
"The NTSB determined that the probable cause of this accident was incapacitation of the flight crewmembers as a result of their failure to receive supplemental oxygen following a loss of cabin pressurization, for undetermined reasons."
Really? you must be an aviation expert privy to information on a secret type of aircraft no one knows about. As the vast majority of today's aircraft outside of the SR71 and the X series fly at altitudes significantly lower.
As the 421 is pressurized, lose of cabin pressure can incapacitate the crew and passengers.
@Hal You're wrong. Payne's plane was actually a rocket ship that flew at an altitude of 90k light-years. The loss of cabin pressure was caused by a microscopic quantum singularity that intersected with the ship's destructo-ray. He fired his booster rockets and attempted an emergency space-landing on the Moon, but a group of Martian space pirates fired one of their death cannons while his electro-shield was down, causing the vessel to be flung into Earth's atmosphere.
Galactic Supreme Emperor Lord Xenu of the KAOS Alliance claimed resopnsibility for the attack, triggering what history books now refer to as the Mexican-American War.
Get your facts straight before you post! ;P
I don't think Paynes plane was at 90,000 feet. The SR71 spy plane only flew between 80 and 90K. Commercial jet liners rarely exceed 35K. The news report on the crash (Paynes) said it ascended to as high as 45K, but that was after the pilots and passengers were already unconscious.
@Kris...thanks so much for the chuckle..and the aviation education.
My step father flew high altitude bombing missions in WWII at 22,000 to 25,000 feet and it was - 40 degrees and they had to use oxygen. With a pressurised plane, with heaters, you do not realize the danger . My Father flew commercial Airlines and he remembered just missing a military flight coming head on and he noticed no one was in the cockpit of the military "Mars: 4 engine aircraft over the Pacific ocean. It was on Autopilot and they were doing something else. People will set the auto pilot then sometime sleep.
Modern aircraft will automatically take up a sustainable glide path until they hit the water if they do not have enough power to stay at elevation and no one is at the controls. buoyancy, if the plane does not break up on impact, will allow it to use it's wing tanks and other trapped air to stay buoyant and afloat. My Father put a 4 engine DC-4 into the Pacific Ocean after it lost 2 of it's engines, and it floated for 5 and 1/2 hours and he and his crew and passenger deployed a life raft and were picked up. This looks like the Pilot blacked out for some reason, regained consciousness enough to take the plane out of "auto pilot" and take in a lower altitude but then passed out again without re-engaging the autopilot that would have flown him until the fuel ran out over Florida or beyond.
If he had a rapid loss of cabin pressure, he would have taken it into a dive to regain air, but, if he was sleeping, like many private pilots do in "Auto Pilot" on long trips and the cabin lost temperature control and oxygen slowly. while he was sleeping, and did not waken him until minimum levels we reached for the alarms to sound, then it is possible he might have woken up just long enough to take the plane out of Auto pilot, reduced throttle and put it into a dive before he lost consciousness again. The plane would have re-leveled it's self but the reduced throttle would have not been able to maintain "strait and level" flight long. All kinds of alarms would be going off in the cockpit until it finally hit the water.
It would sure be nice if aircraft could have a "Dead man Switch" that unless an input is received, when prompted during "Auto Pilot", the aircraft would automatically descend to 8,000 feet and take up a new heading toward land and the nearest airport then circle it and emit a mayday. Then if there was no response, a code could be given, issued by the Aircraft manufacturer that would turn it into a drone that could be landed safely by the tower.
i wish i could have been on board....
?? Hopefully you meant so you could've helped out. Are you a pilot?
You like frosted windows do ya.
Suicide Hotline # needed?
I dont know that msn.com is the proper place to make a cry for help.....i could be wrong though
I could offer some advice, though it may not be the greatest.
So many rude, inconsiderate, and hateful things to say. No one knows what happened, so why speculate with stupid comments! Someone loved this pilot and my heart goes out to them all.
I too feel for the family and loved ones of this pilot. I hope it wasn't suicide and it was some freak accidental engine or medical issue, we don't know anything at this point. My first thought though of a pilot alone on the plane and over the water - not near any land /buildings/people/etc - was a potential suicide. I hope not, for the loved ones sake because that would just make it so much harder to accept and deal with loss.
Because this is a COMMENT board.
Newsvine Code of Honor
People only make these ridiculous hateful comments because they don't have to put their picture up and therefore don't have to take personal ownership. Had it been a face to face conversation, then I am sure it would be a lot different. Anonymity brings out the worst in too many people.
While that is true, this is still a comment board, and its purpose is for people to make comments. No where on top does it say "We guarantee you will like every opinion". If I see a comment I like I reply, if I see one I don't, I either counter it, or usually just ignore it. But I am not here to tell others to stop posting.
TFNJ...you're right, it is a comment board. However as Ilike2save$2 asked, why do people have to be so crude and hateful? Comment, but do it nicely or as my mother used to say, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". Now I realize that it is a free country and we have the right to free speech, but sometimes we need to quell our desire to be nasty.
I would agree, except that ilike2save's argument is that people are speculating. If he means people laughing at another's death, then fine. But he is complaining because he doesn't like people bringin up possibilities, like the pilot being on drugs or the pilot doing it on purpose. Neither of us know the real story yet, so who am I to tell someone to shut up because I don't want to accept some harsh reality.
We all know comments here get collapsed constantly simply because someone feels the comment was less than holy. I think people need to learn to face realities, instead of trying to change others.
You people should be ashamed most of you can't tie your own shoes or brush your teeth! God doesn 't like ugly! This man was a wonderful surgeon in the community of Slidell, LA. He will be greatly missed! We all loved him dearly. He has been a great savior to me and my family. My sympathy goes out to his family and loved ones. Dr. Peter Hertzak you were one in a million!
Very sorry for you as well as his family that your friend and your surgeon is gone now.
There must be some way we can blame Obama for this.
Zorro,
That comment is getting really old!
Well, the planes path does pretty much mirror his term so far.
A Cessna 421 does indeed have a pressurized cabin. Foggy or icey windows, this was almost definitly depressurization, the pilot would of had a VERY short amount of time to reach a mask before the lack of oxygen got him. RIP.
It's definitely George Bush's fault!!!!
Al Gore's fault, the internet went down.
Guess Obama is going to have to bail out Cessna now. Great.
Hope that he starts with Beechcraft, as they are actually bankrupt ...
Rlquall
Let China bail them out.
BEIJING (Aug. 23 2011) – In order to maintain a leading position and further develop the North Asia market, Hawker Beechcraft Corporation (HBC), a world-leading manufacturer of business, special mission, light attack and trainer aircraft, today announced the establishment of its new regional headquarters office in Beijing for the North Asia region, which covers mainland China, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan, Korea and Japan. Furthermore, it has increased its investment in the fast-growing Chinese market by adding local employees and strengthening its sales and marketing network in region.
What's with all these pilots going nuts or passing out while flying lately? Aliens?
This was caused by the Florida rectangle.
Most of the ones that have gone "nuts" lately (that i've read) have been flight attendants.
I thought it was the Florida Obtuse Triangle?
Anyway, I think there might be some sort of Alien contamination in the atmosphere and pilots are going nuts.
Yes, Pilots and Flight Attendants.
Jon,
That's Florida Angled Rectum.
I think aliens come to earth through the holes in the atomshpere from space launches. Let's Do Launch!
We'll have a Johnny Rocket special.
Sounds like F16 target practice to me.
Service ceiling of the plane is about 30,000. According to FlightAware (tracking the flght plan) he was at 27,000 feet when it started to "wobble". Even at 27,000 there's not a lot of oxygen, and a loss of pressurization and cabin integrity could have done lots of bad things. Have to wait and see if they can recover recorders (if they were indeed on the plane).
It would not surprise me if this person was either a scientist or a previous BP employee. : ( I wonder if we'll ever know now?
Great Job USAF, for scrambling Jets and flanking this Cessna
150 miles out over the Gulf. Where were you on 9/11?
David... do you read? The article said the F-15s were ALREADY ON A MISSION IN THE GULF. I know that you, like the rest of the truthers, probably have a difficult time understanding this... but look at a radar map of the eastern half of the country from 9/11. Finding the four hijacked planes out of the 5000 in the air would have been next to impossible for the military. And even if they did find them. what were they going to do? All you people think that we just have jets all over the place that can take off within seconds and that we can somehow radar track only four jets that are no different to the radar than the thousands of other jets in the sky.
This is an article about a pilot who died. It is a tragedy. Yet that doesn't stop all you a$$holes from coming on here and trying to make some kind of political statement on some tragedy that is also a lesson in physics. There's more people here talking about 9/11, Obama, and God knows what else than what there are people talking about what could have happened. There's plenty of places on this board to talk about your political bullsh!t. Why don't you go there and do it instead of stinking up this board.
Hello Patrick,
Three thousand people died on 9/11,
while the USAF stood down.
Deal with it.
Want to have an unlimited CAP over the lower 48? Know what that costs a month?
Right David - because I so want the USAF to shoot down an airliner full of people the next time a celebrity won't get off his phone.
Get over it already. And if you can't, then may I suggest the bottle?
To quote the article:
"The two F-15s from the New Orleans National Guard were already on a mission over the Gulf, according to the AP report, citing a release from Edwards. The Jacksonville Air Traffic Control Center asked the military if jets could check on the plane, which was orbiting near one of Eglin Air Force Base's warning areas over the Gulf, Edwards said. Eglin is on Florida's Panhandle."
David S comment = proof that the dumbing down of America is in full swing.
They were too far away on 9/11 due to cuts in our military by the Congress.
You have to love the unsubstantiated speculation. Ok, my turn, the pilot was blind and he had a seeing eye dog that barked once for left rudder and twice for right rudder. Unfortunately the dog contracted laryngitis and the pilot unknowingly circleduntil he ran out of fuel. I love the "plummeted" headline, when the coast guard said it landed gracefully in the sea.
MSNBC at their best. Facts? Whuzzz that mean.
DBF! -----CS2(SS)
Obama Sucks
Thanks for stating the obvious but even my five-year-old grandson knows that.
What does Obama have to do with this?
Seems like a big tadooo over a rather mundane event. Sorry the pilot died but crap happens. However MSNBC runs with this story because they don't want to have to post the stories about the GSA scandal and Secret Service investigation.
Or the spring break to Mexico for 12 - 13 year girls.....The GSA thing was a pittance when compared to the cost of this trip.
Heat attack or stoke maybe?
Sounds like cabin depressurization (and subsequent suffocation from lack of oxygen) if there there was fog on the windscreen..... This guy was not some finance guy from Indiana that was in legal hot water, was he?
Only MSNBC post a story with no ending must be a slow news day. Apperanlty not semi white person shot a brother today because that would be all over the news .
or if kim k. was getting her nails done...
I'm gonna' go out on a limb here and guess that you are referring to that nasty incident in Sanford, FL a few weeks ago. Zimmerman is not a semi white person, he is a white person. Just because his father was referred to as white and his mother as Hispanic doesn't make him semi white. A Hispanic is caucasian just like his white father is a caucasian, therefore he is white.
Unless you have ANY clue about planes, please step back from the keyboard. A 421 has a ceiling of 30,000 feet. anything over 15,000 feet and you need a pressurized cabin. If there was a leak in the cabin, as a couple of knowledgeable people here have said, this sounds like a pressure issue and the pilot probably passed out and turned the yoke to the left or right and it went in circles until it ran out of fuel.
HAL, you put together facts like Michael Moore. Yes, a couple of planes can fly at 90,000 feet but no to your statement about no air up there. It is just VERY thin (as in fewer air molecules per cubit foot compared to sea level.) And Payne's plane was a small jet at max 40,000 feet and this was a prop plane. Totally different beast.
Does anyone think before posting?
Is thinking a requirement to comment? If thinking was required, this would not be a national story. Folks die every minute.
However, we spent thousands of dollars to scramble fighter planes and will spend thousands more to send out a ship searching for the remnants.