God bless the nuns. Their faith is inspiring and they do good works.

Strange bedfellows. fifty years ago the right wing heads began to explode when an irish-catholic man stated he would run for president.

Hear that bell ringing? It's the death knell for American Catholicism.

WWJD?

More Vatican hypocrisy.

To each their own. Your body, your choice. I don't have to agree with it, but I also don't have the right to tell others what to do. Just remember, with every action comes a reaction.

This is what religion has become, "Screw the works of jesus, we got an agenda to push."

Of course! Just as Pope John Paul II, gave 'activist priests' in Latin America hell for their efforts to help the poor, unions fight back; at the cost of some of their lives. Shut the hell up; the down trodden will get their reward in heaven. On the other hand JP2 supported Solidarity in his homeland of Poland; oh, hypocrisy, you're sooo transparent.

Big BRAVO! for the nuns! They are showing a true spirit of Christianity.

Strangely I side with Henry the 8th on this one. The Pope is trying to control our democracy and I don't remember him being on the ballot. I fully support the nuns for their stance against this tyrant.

ScottW714 - LOVE the comment and post. 100% agree with applause from Texas.

I wonder what the Catholic Church's reaction was upon leaning their scathing letter was made public.

And the Catholics wonder why they are losing members. Is it time for Ratzinger to step down? Or perhaps it's time for American Catholics to distance themselves from the Vatican! I believe the last time the Catholic Church lost soo many members was when Mussolini was part of the Axis-Nazi regime and that is when Benito granted Catholics the property for the Vatican. Are Catholics still leaning towards fascist tendencies? This insult by the Vatican makes it seem so.

So! The Vatican chastised the nuns for failing to make the "Biblical view of family life and human sexuality" a central plank in its agenda.

Like all those pedophile priests had succeeded in doing, right? Go to Hell, Pope & male holier-than-thou heirarchy! Talk about hypocrisy! It makes me puke!

(and the BTW I was raised Catholic and lived in a convent in high school boarding school--I know whereof I speak!)

One more reminder why I finally gave up Catholicism and became atheist.

If they are going to push political agendas, then we ought to tax them.

Another example of how out-of-touch the Catholic (male) hierarchy is. Social justice, serving the poor, etc. should be the lasting legacy the Church brings to the people of the world. I say the nuns should continue in their good works!

Now THERE is something you don't see everyday. A nun feeding the poor with her left hand while flipping off the Pope with her right.

I'lll follow the nuns who truly emulate Jesus rather than some power-hungry old men.

Remember that the Pilgrims came to this country, not to escape religious persecution, but to be the persecutor.

Not to split hairs here, but the Pilgrims weren't Catholic. They were a Calvinist offshoot of Anglican Church.

...so they essentially just told nuns to stop loving people so much and spread more hate? Classy.

Funny, I don't remember reading a single thing Jesus ever said about homosexuality or abortion. He seemed to have more important things to do and a lot to say about helping the poor and disenfranchised. Seems to me the nuns are on the right track and the Pope needs to get his head out of his ideology.

In a stinging report on Wednesday, the Vatican said the Leadership Conference of Women Religious had been "silent on the right to life" and had failed to make the "Biblical view of family life and human sexuality" a central plank in its agenda. It accused the group of promoting "certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith."

Would that be the same biblical view that allows pedophiles to be protected within the vatican.... Mr. Pope, I would much rather have the nuns than the rest of your clergy.

You don't have to become an Atheist when you give up Catholicism. Many Catholics have turned to the Episcopal church and other branches of beliefs. You have to find your own true calling. If the catholic church isn't speaking to your heart, walk away. They have no more rights over your soul than anything else. Only God owns your soul ---not the church,they don't get to decide your fate.

My husband was catholic but we could no longer condone the harboring of child molesters, the inability of popes to marry, the right of women to have a voice in the church....and we support birth control ( not abortion--but just condoms for goodness sake) It is time for this specific religion to run its course.

GaryColumbus Or perhaps it's time for American Catholics to distance themselves from the Vatican!

I think the last time those words were issued, The Church of England was the result

Dear Pope: You cant hide evil amongst your clergy and sit on a golden thrown , throw out demands of ignorance and think people in this day and age are going to follow you. Humans are children of God, when they open their hearts they will only follow light and love and kindness and goodness. Evil eventually succumbs to light.

Religion is the root of ALL that ills the world. Ever since the trumped up stories of jesus, god, etc in the babble, the world has been fighting because of religion. Prior to the made up event, the wars were over land, not religions.

Really? All of the world's ills come from religion? That's a ridiculous statement to make.

Also, war has always been about land or resources, religion is just a way to make your people think that taking land and resources from others is 'ordained by God'.

Nuns are the hardest working, most under appreciate group in the catholic faith (shocking that it is the women!)

They are the ones "in the field." Serving the poor of 3rd world countries while the powers that be rule from their golden palace in Rome.

They are the ones working in the hospitals and schools. They are the ones that see the needs of the people every day through their service-not from the pulpit once a week.

They are the ones living the teachings of Jesus to feed the poor and heal the sick.

They are by far the lowest paid and respected members of the catholic staff.

"Silent on the right to life." How about "too busy trying to solve actual problems to worry about fake issues like who pays for contraception" or "Realize through their work with the poor that having children you cannot afford to feed is not a good thing!"

Nuns scare me...These Nuns are ok though. I would be happy to be around them for helping the needy over pushing hate

If he were a true Christian leader, he would have praised them for their good works. Then maybe make a suggestion about other works they might also pursue. Although, the ones he suggested were typical dogma. I don't agree with abortion, and I am certainly happy with my X & Y match-ups, but what the he!! has that got to do with the great work that these women have accomplished. At least they weren't chasing children around for sexual gratification, like the "protected"class of the church.

BTW, religion was invented to help use deal with the darkness. I would rather turn on the lights myself.

I volunteered in Central America with nuns. I am afraid to say what order and where for fear that they will be excommunicated due to what I write below.

The villages where they served were filled with the poorest people on earth. People who at times of famine, knowing they did not have enough food to feed their family, literally had to consider if it was better to give all not enough and risk them all becoming sick and dying, or choosing one to not feed ensuring that the others would all live. (They could not choose to not eat themselves as there would be no one to provide food for the children in their absence.)

Having the 3 brain cells required to realize that, in this situation, having more children was not a good thing, the nuns would bring condoms with them from the US when they visited and gave them to the people. (Very funny story of a nun being stopped at customs with a suitcase filled with nothing but condoms...) The people were not always so poor that they could not have sex with their husbands, but depending on the weather/crops that year-may go through years where food was not available. In years where things were ok, it was important to not have more kids for the years that were not.

These nuns, as I imagine the nuns serving the HIV positive population in Africa before the church decided it was ok to use a condom to keep your wife from also getting AIDS, saw a need that the pope and church leaders in their palace in Rome would never be able to see. They followed Jesus' teachings of compassion and met those needs. They should be given medals-not condemned.

But really, what do we expect?

What about spending time finding Pedophiles within your clergy? That would take a lifetime and then they would just get moved to the next hunting ground..........

Exactly my reasons for leaving the church. I was raised devote Catholic and was even encouraged to become a nun and my brother the priesthood. Neither of us made it that far -- thank God. The modern world of science and technology has advanced so much since the middle ages, but for some reason, Catholicism was left behind. Also, in my opinion there will never be another Pope John Paul II.

I am suprised that there is 57K nuns in America! I haven't seen a nun in or out of habit in years. None of the Catholic elementary schools near me even have a nun working as a teacher anymore. When nuns are not supporting the churches edicts on family planning/birth control that says the church is wrong. Ever hear of a nun molesting anyone in America? NO. I never thought much of any of the priests that were in the parish I was raised in but I always respected the nuns. They were loving caring good teachers who were tough as marine corp. drill instructors. They had to be. In my day a Catholic school classroom had 40 kids in it.

Anyone see this yet? I guess the Vatican is going Republican! It's truly time these hypocrites start paying taxes, Baptist politicians too, pay your taxes, you want to get politically involved!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd

As an atheist, I miss John Paul II. He and I may not have agreed on a wide variety of earthly and spiritual matters, but he had a heart, a soul, and was empathy personified.

Pope Nazi makes me sick. Declaring priests to be more attuned to god's teachings is also sexist and ignorant.

Catholics come home! Close your mind and goosestep in line... and we'll elect Santorum next time.

Maybe the nuns should kick the Pope to the curb along with their superstitious belief in make-believe sky wizards and resurrected zombies. The entire planet would be better off if they did.

Sounds like they're running out of money to me. The poor don't have the cash to give anymore so politics and deep pockets are the name of game now.

Just a guess, but I believe that the Catholic Church will lose a sizable number of nuns, of which there is a great shortage in the United States, because of the Vatican's short-sighted message to these dedicated women. The Catholic Church has been losing a great many prospective nuns and priests because of their ridiculous demands which are 'unnatural', antiquated, and self-serving in nature. This, once great, institution is slowly removing itself from relevance, especially in the U.S. When will they ever learn?

...and people keep complaining that Islam is anti-woman. Nope, sorry. It's any of the major Western reigions when taken literally.

Roy, as much as I wish I disagreed with you, I'm kind of inclined to agree. Like it or not, the bible says what it says about women. Any gospels primarily featuring women were rejected a long time ago, and we are left with stories like that of Lilith and Delilah. If you want a feminist-friendly religion, Catholicism just isn't it.

Organized religion. An evil thing. Once again the evils of organized religion rear their head. More and more people need to be leaving the church in order to "find God".

Roy,

I plant two different seeds in my garden. I also wear clothes blended of two different materials. Leviticus 19:19 forbids these things. Since, being a holy person, you surely don't do this, can you offer some advice as to how I can grow a greater variation in crops?

I don't think I'll change me clothes though. I like the feel of cotton and the poly blend keeps it from shrinking too much.

Ah, Pope Benidict is becoming more and more political. wait, wasn't he a member of the Hitler Youth? I guess he's always been political!

Roy: "It's interesting that feminist secular/religious groups say, in essence, "Never mind what the Bible says, we want what we want"."

With respect: BALONEY! The Bible only consists of the books it has today because a group of white guys decided which books to include hundreds of years after Jesus' death. There are MANY books which were never included--sometimes referred to as "The Lost Books of the Bible." Google it. Buy them. Read them. (I have many of these "lost gospels" myself).

And one of those "Lost Gospels" is entitled "The Gospel according to Mary Magdalen." It's quite good. Jesus included not just Mary Magdalen--but many other women--in his ministry. His male apostles objected but he told them to mind their own business (I'm paraphrasing, of course)

It's documented fact. Look it up--I dare you! Scary but TRUE!!!

I just need some help comprehending this statement: Public disagreement with the bishops -- "who are the church's authentic teachers of faith and morals" -- is unacceptable, the report said.

Aren't these the same people who molested hundreds if not thousands of kids??

F--k the pope! Why aren't they going after the group of child molesting morons in the church? Not all religion is bad, just most of it. We take the things in the bible that agree with our world view and disregard the rest. That's why I not longer attend church.

Kallie: As the pope said when speaking to the bishops: "My Fellow Bishops....we will never see the day when priests will be allowed to marry...but our children will !!!"

Mac Forrester, you're one sick puppy. Go to Hell, do not pass go, go straight to Hell.

i'm hoping the lengthier response the nuns give is this:

Dear Pope,

You might find this surprising, but we base our priorities on Jesus' teachings...not your political agenda.

Sincerely,

American Nuns

All Hail Pope Benedict, the representative of God on Earth! Augustus Caesar made this same claim about himself, and it ended in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Thank goodness for these nuns who worship the Jesus Christ found in the Holy Scriptures and not some "false Jesus" whose ministry must have been all about safeguarding the injustice of wealth and power, and denouncing gays????? (funny, but having read and preached on the scriptures for 30 years, I have yet to read any of this in the gospels.) Pope Benedict should be ashamed of himself for publicly denying the one he claims is his Lord and Savior. He will indeed burn in hell for this.

seriously, I gave up on nuns when I realized Sally Fields couldn't fly. However I've been given new hope, that this group of nuns will tell his popefulness where to stick it! and that's not in some little kid!

One additional note - religion is like anything else. It's potential for good and evil are the same. I am not catholic, but there are plenty of wonderful catholics, priests, and obviously nuns! No one denomination has cornered the market on following Jesus - only those who are Christ-like in the living of their own lives should be considered his followers.

It's interesting that feminist secular/religious groups say, in essence, "Never mind what the Bible says, we want what we want".

Please point to the specific passage of the bible where Jesus says contraception is wrong.

Please point to the specific place where Jesus says that only men can be priests.

Please point to the specific place where Jesus says that administering to the poor and sick should take a back seat to the message that contraception is wrong.

As far as we want what we want, considering they are nuns and do not have sex, I don't think they have any personal or selfish reasons for not denouncing contraception.

I am deeply concerned about this controversy, especially since it comes so close to the day when Pope Benedict "made peace" with the "Christian Brothers", a radically conservative and anti-woman group .

These nuns - no less than 80% of American nuns - were openly and publicly chided in a most discriminatory way. Shame on Rome ! It is indeed true that there are two standards : one for men (paedophiles and homosexuals apparently do not have to adhere to the laws of celibacey) and one for women. These nuns wor hard and do a lot of good world-wide, under often the most miserable circumstances and do not deserve a public dressing-down like errant dogs !

I am reluctant to say this, but may be it is time for another split : American High Church. We must support our nuns !

Hey Vatican - This is exactly why I am loosing my faith. You are more concerned with lining your pockets and pushing a political agenda than offering scripture and help. This sickens me more when you look at the ever advancing faith of Islam. How dare you!? Shame on all who have made these decisions on my behalf as a Catholic!

If you want to see the truth behind the abuse scandle, I suggest you go to bishopaccountability.org. there you will see it all and what the true catholic church is about.

Between the abuse, birthcontrol, healthcare reform, false claim of persecution of the church, hostility towards women, their attack on nuns, I have said goodbye to this evil empire. UCC here I come!!

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Child molesters a doctrine of hate and judgment vaults of valuables a Bank on the property, Is there really any doubt what Jesus would do with the Vatican ?

Let the foolish believe in the infallibility of the Beast of Rome. Well, that's an old timey name. Let's update it to The Boob of Rome.

And tax the Church.

"As an atheist, I miss John Paul II. He and I may not have agreed on a wide variety of earthly and spiritual matters, but he had a heart, a soul, and was empathy personified.

Pope Nazi makes me sick. Declaring priests to be more attuned to god's teachings is also sexist and ignorant."

Holy @!$%#. Someone who knows how to not be offensive... even seemingly tolerant. +1

@fuzzy44: Not familiar with your link, but if it affords you pleasantness, then good for you. Doubt any of us will get to hell. I think the proprietors standards are just too high, at least, for the likes of me. Regards

ErinsFire42 "Roy: "It's interesting that feminist secular/religious groups say, in essence, "Never mind what the Bible says, we want what we want".".............With respect: BALONEY!"

So you're basically saying that you don't believe in what the Bible says, so other people shouldn't either.

You're certainly entitled to your 'opinion', but I suspect people of faith will continue to look to the Bible as the foundation of their faith. Ridiculing people of faith doesn't make you 'smart', just intolerant.

Being a Nun is elective - no one forces them to live by their commitment, and they are free to leave if they disagree with the teachings of the church.

That being said, is anyone really stunned that a bunch of old, white, guys are fighting to maintain a bigotted status quo?

Really? There are no priests, cardinals or bishops of any other persuasion? That an incredibly racist statement.

Now, if you really want to get hot over this, investigate how Nuns are paid and cared for. The Priests are well cared for all their lives, not the Nuns. The Vatican is an evil empire. Ask any Native American who was tortured in their schools, ask any boy raped in their cellars and on their altars. Pity the poor fools in America who think Catholicism is the true way of Christ.......there are none so blind as those who will not see.

uchusky99 "Please point to the specific place where Jesus says contraception is wrong......Please point to the specific place where Jesus says that only men can be priests."

I don't claim to be an expert on Catholic teachings, but I'll give you some scriptures that might apply;

Woman teachers - 1 Timothy 2: 12.

Contraception - Genesis 38: 6-10 (Sex is for procreation).

Look them up for yourself - It's good practice.

As for your other question, it's just silly, since Jesus didn't make a priority list for applying the scriptures - except that Love is the most important quality we should strive for.

Turns out the part about the nuns being criticized for spending 'too much time on social justice work' is a lie.

I like the nuns.

But I don't agree with making up lies to discredit their detractors.

this sounds like a donation may have been given to the catholic church in return for pushing an agenda.

So you're basically saying that you don't believe in what the Bible says, so other people shouldn't either.

The poster Erin, and I do not presume to speak for her, never said that she did not believe in the bible. She pointed out that there may have also been other books and the historical fact that many of the books now in the bible were written centuries after Jesus' death.

Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith are not Catholic. Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith cannot find one place where Jesus says women cannot be priests or contraception is wrong. Priests were married in the early church.

no one forces them to live by their commitment

Their FIRST commitment is to God and following the teachings of Jesus. Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith believe they are doing so far more than the Pope.

Also, it is not as though they have been protesting for contraception and abortion rights. They have been focusing more on social justice issues such as feeding the poor and healing the sick (you know, the things Jesus said to do in his name) more so than denouncing contraception.

Also, this is really the biggest thing happening in the world that the pope needs to speak publicly about? Scolding nuns? Really? Dictators, War lords, terrorists-none of these deserve a scolding more than a group of nuns who think that women should be priests?

So you're basically saying that you don't believe in what the Bible says, so other people shouldn't either.

The poster Erin, and I do not presume to speak for her, never said that she did not believe in the bible. She pointed out that there may have also been other books and the historical fact that many of the books now in the bible were written centuries after Jesus' death.

Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith are not Catholic. Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith cannot find one place where Jesus says women cannot be priests or contraception is wrong. Priests were married in the early church.

no one forces them to live by their commitment

Their FIRST commitment is to God and following the teachings of Jesus. Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith believe they are doing so far more than the Pope.

Also, it is not as though they have been protesting for contraception and abortion rights. They have been focusing more on social justice issues such as feeding the poor and healing the sick (you know, the things Jesus said to do in his name) more so than denouncing contraception.

Also, this is really the biggest thing happening in the world that the pope needs to speak publicly about? Scolding nuns? Really? Dictators, War lords, terrorists-none of these deserve a scolding more than a group of nuns who think that women should be priests?

Mac Forrester, I'm not upset. I'm simply stating a fact that your delusional writing points out. I also see by your post @ 1.69 that you are smug, and think yourself to be humorous. You know there's an old saying "your time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end', good luck then.

PappaDave-956353 had this to say:

Americans are so uninformed on many ISSUES of the Catholic Church... Catholicism IS NOT a buffet table where YOU pick and choose what parts you want to use or leave out! That is WHY there are so many "Christian" religious sects here and around the world! They ALL are made up of people who did NOT like the teachings of the Catholic Church for one reason or the other!

Well, PappaDave, apparently you are a trifle misinformed as well. There are sects within the Catholic faith--some are affiliated with the Vatican, and others are not. Mel Gibson's dad belongs to a sect that is not in line with Vatican teaching--they are called "Catholic Traditionalists." There are actually quite a few Catholic sects here in the US that are not aligned with the Vatican. World-wide, there is the Greek Orthodox belief as well as Russian Orthodox. There is more than one "pope."

Roman Catholicism is a single sect of Catholicism. And, even that has its fissures (see the mention of Catholic Traditionalists, above).

As for Roy Wilson, who just loves to spread misinformation--yes, nuns can leave the church just like priests. All Catholics are free to leave the church if they disagree with its teachings. The Bible does not say most of the things that the Pope is now asserting--try to find a statement on contraception (it isn't there), try to find a statement on abortion (it's there, but the only penalty is a fine), try to find a statement on homosexuality (Christ made none; those which were made referred to either pagan practices or later Greek and Roman practices that are not "homosexual"--a concept that did not exist until quite recently--but same-sex sexual behavior by men who were probably straight). Roy--it isn't in the Bible. Even the "authority of the Pope" isn't in the Bible. There's nothing in the Bible about women being priests--heck, there's nothing about priests in the Bible (except for Jewish priests).

People of faith do look at the Bible--yes. And they actually read that puppy. Guess what--none of what you are asserting as "Biblical" is there. There is absolutely no statement that same-sex sexual behavior is more important than social justice and caring for the poor. There is no statement that abortion is more important than social justice and caring for the poor (the only statement about abortion shows that it is considered to be a really minor issue).

But, as usual, Roy is going to take a tiny little excerpt of what I just said and misrepresent it and offer some statement from Leviticus (badly translated) or from Paul (who was not a disciple, and who was talking about the debauchery in Rome). It's annoying that people like Roy make a living posting to threads like this and punking them.

I guess Huppke is right--Facts really has died.

Sorry--double post. Just to make this one relevant, here are some relevant passages:

Exodus
21:22 If men strive [fight] an hurt a woman with child, so that her
fruit [fetus] depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely
punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay
as the judges determine.

That's about the only passage about abortion--and the word "pay" really did mean "pay"--not with one's life, but with money. Have a great day.

The biblical view of family life includes a man with many wives...

....."who are the Church's authentic teachers of faith and morals."

Let's see, how many Bishops have been canned over the last few years for condoning or protecting known pedophile priests in their local diocese have we read or heard about over the last few years? Usual Vatican hypocrisy!

Please point to the specific place where Jesus says that only men can be priests.

That is not Catholic dogma. It is current policy. Like celibate Priests versus married Priests, it could conceivably change in the future.

Please point to the specific place where Jesus says that administering to the poor and sick should take a back seat

Doesn't say that, and neither did the Vatican. This is 2012. Not everything the press says is true.

Hello folks, the nuns should realize by now who they are dealing with, a bunch of misogynists who are also hypocrites. Religion is just another method of controlling the masses all the while they steal your money and your children’s innocence. The sexual abuse that has been perpetrated by the Catholic Church on tens of thousands of innocent children is on a scale that lends itself so that even the casual observer has to wonder if it is an accepted ritual within the church. Many people come to the defense of the church stating that it is the celibate role that has lent itself to the wide spread abuse. If so, why are the majority of victims boys?

A study done by The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect found that even though only 25% of citizens in the U.S. are Roman Catholic, 54% of the sexual abuse cases were perpetrated by Catholic priests. The church has paid at least 2.6 billion to settle sexual abuse cases. In 2007 alone the Los Angeles Archdiocese on July 15 announced the largest church settlement of sexual abuse lawsuits to date, agreeing to pay more than 500 alleged victims a total of $660 million. The abuse continues and the wealthy Vatican is easily able to cover these claims. The Vatican even has insurance policies to cover these operating costs.

The minor victims of priest abuse are overwhelmingly boys and teenagers, which is
contrary to the pattern of abuse in the general population.

The problem is not just with the number of priests who molests young children, but in
a Vatican power structure which harbors and conceals pedophiles, hides other
sexual behavior patterns among its clerics and uses the strategies of duplicity
and counterattack against the victims.

Why is it that in most countries the Catholic Church doesn’t have to abide by the same laws that apply to other pedophiles and rapists? And why don’t Catholics see this atrocity as an integral part of their church?

Pedophile priests have molested innocent children in the Roman Catholic Church probably since the beginning of the church. These pedophiles have been protected and their horrendous crimes against children have gone unpunished. It is amazing to me that there are over a billion Catholics. I guess acceptance of pedophilia in the church is the cost of salvation!

At the start of this thread, I had a few good things to say about this...The more I read I realized it's been said about 100 times. Honestly 420 Frees the Mind said it best. (Go back up and read his "community closed message".)

I'll say one thing though, More people have been killed "in the name of (christian) god" than any other religion!

American blood of all races and creeds is being, and has been, shed to protect the rights and treasure of these pedophiles who pay NO tribute for their blessings. It is time to tax all church property and impose the rule of constitutional--not catholic canonical--law on these greed, pompous perverts.

American blood of all races and creeds is being, and has been, shed to protect the rights and treasure of these pedophiles who pay NO tribute for their blessings. It is time to tax all church property and impose the rule of constitutional--not catholic canonical--law on these greed, pompous perverts.

Ya'll do realize that the Vatican used to kill people for owning bibles, you know why? So they could use old testament teachings, those teachings that Christianity actually objected to with the New Testaments, to control people. "Do as we say the Bible says...don't read it yourself, you're not worthy".......(puke). So all the anti-gay, anti-woman stuff Christians use is pulled out of the pre-christian teachings, the old testaments. Now they all do it, Southern Baptists, Evangelicals. Any of us that read the New Testament can tell you that Christ did not hold those views AT ALL. Maybe people should read something other than the Bible for a bit, say like the history of our American Religions? The Vatican is EVIL but at least they worked from original translations in their deceptions. The Modern Fundamentalists are simply delusional as they think multi-gen translations and interpretations that are their Bibles are the factual WORD of God. Note the plurality....so many "Ours is the one true God" cults. That's been real helpful to humanity.

The nuns are everything that is right with the world. The church is everything that's wrong with it.

You go, pope dude. Spout your nonsense. Remind the world how stupid your views are.

I love it when stuff like this happens. Maybe if enough of religions hateful biggotry is exposed the republicans can drop it from their agenda, and get back to being a useful relevant party.

beanathome " The Bible does not say most of the things that the Pope is now asserting--try to find a statement on contraception (it isn't there), try to find a statement on abortion (it's there, but the only penalty is a fine), try to find a statement on homosexuality"

I'm not Catholic, so I don't claim to speak for them, but your assertions are wrong. Contraception has been a violation of their teachings for a long time (perhaps Genesis 38: 6-10, or others). The penalty for causing the death of a fetus was DEATH (Soul for Soul), not a fine (Genesis 21: 22-23). As for homosexuality, while different terms were used when the Bible was translated to English, almost all Bible scholars agree that 1 Corinthians 6: 9 and Romans 1: 26-27 refer to the condemnation of the PRACTICE of homosexuality.

Uchusky999 (#1.87): "The poster Erin, and I do not presume to speak for her, never said that she did not believe in the bible. She pointed out that there may have also been other books and the historical fact that many of the books now in the bible were written centuries after Jesus' death."

My friend, in this matter, you MAY speak for me. Thank you for your reading comprehension skills and simpatico-ness (is this a word? *smile*) I was about to reply but you said it better than I.

Peace and happy Friday to you (and all here)

to the nuns: let me tell you a story. my mother(and my father when he was with us) belonged to a Buddhist organization called the Soka Gakkai intl. this is a laymen's organization that follows the teachings of a buddhist monk from the 13th century who advocated good works, compassion, love, brotherhood and the law of cause and effect. in the 1980s this group was excommunicated from the original religion Nicheren Shoshu because they refused to bow down the heirarchy of the church and the priests who wanted them to pay homage to them and agree that you could not reach nirvana without the priest. the leader of their group accepted the excommunication and 12 million members followed him. this organization works for peace, freedom and equality for all and they are growing by leaps and bounds all over the world as more and more people are seeking an alternative to the violence we see.

i think it would be the greatest show of love for Jesus if these women defied the Pope and the Vatican and chose to leave the church and set up their own laymen's organization whose aim was to follow the true teachings of Jesus-love, peace, compassion and brotherhood and the lesson of the good samaritan. it would shake the church to its foundations and it would give the rest of us a boost of faith that we sorely need. you don't have to believe in a church to understand the beautiful teachings of Jesus. whether you believe in his divinity or not, he was a man of such grace and compassion and these women are emulating him. i believe in the creative source of the universe and as we are all divine and children of the stars(i'm not talking about aliens-so don't even start) i also believe in the divinity of Christ. His energy continues to be with us when we do his works. when we spew hatred and violent words, we create hatred and violence-cause and effect. you see, many philosophies are the same just with different names and different avenues to reach us. but, if you truly want to make things better, there is nothing more perfect to follow, nothing more pristine and beautiful than the Golden Rule. you don't have to believe in any religion-you don't even have to believe in God at all to understand the power that living by this simple statement could have on the world. when will we stand up for this?

Just another group of tyrants claiming to be a religion, when instead it's a society trying to overthrow our democracy through backroom politics and the fears of Hellfire and Brimstone. I'm sick of that Nazi Boy Scout Pope, and all the crap he's done. He'd rather keep his people dumb, uneducated, and living in poverty, just as many American Politicians would. It's easy to control people when they can't make critical thoughts afterall.

I'm amazed the Nuns are standing up to this, much less continuing to work with a group that tells them as women they will NEVER be as close to God as Men. It kind of reminds me of the Scientologists. If you don't like the religion, get the heck out. Besides, all the Vatican is now is a bunch of dirty old men that prey upon those that trust them the most, both child and adult, grasping desperately at the last strands of their power over people...

beanathome " 'Exodus 21:22 If men strive [fight] an hurt a woman with child, so that her
fruit [fetus] depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely
punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay
as the judges determine'.....................That's about the only passage about abortion--and the word "pay" really did mean "pay"--not with one's life, but with money"

I presume you 'inadvertently' left off verse 23, to wit;

23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life.

I agree with you. In addition to being a cult, the Catholic Church is like a business. They should pay property tax, and income tax, as should all religious organizations.

There have been many comments about the Bible. Most people have no idea that there are at least 2,000 versions of "The Bible." In some respects, all of them have variances.

Very few "Good Christians" know anything about King James, the famous Bible editor. (He had more than a few kinks in his hose. Read about the History of Scotland, and King James in particular. You will learn that he disliked women, and only married to produce an heir to the throne, that he was either an outright homosexual or a very active bi-sexual, and that he tweaked the Bible to support his own beliefs and prerogatives.) That is not my opinion, but historical fact.

The nuns should tell "EL Padre" where to go. They can carry on their good works without the Pope and his minions telling them what they can or cannot do, and how to do it.

In this situation, one should ask - "What Would Jesus Do?" I find it difficult to believe that Jesus would put his blessing on an organization that excludes women.

The Pope needs to realize this is 2012, not 1512; and, that a lot of things have changed in the last 500 years, including the mores of societies all over the globe.

And to clarify: What I was saying is that there were 100's of Gospels written after Jesus death. So many they could not include them all in the Bible we know today. So they picked and chose which Gospels to include at the 1st Council of Nicea. You can google it and find this HISTORICAL FACT:

the First Council of Nicaea (naɪsi:ə; Greek: Νίκαια) was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. This first ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.

Also there are many (in my opinion BETTER) translations of the bible other than the "King James" version. I think that version sucks. Try the Jerusalem Bible (just try it) You might like it!

What can anyone expect from an institution that was formed in the dark ages and never came out of that period. I find the Catholic church ethically corrupt, morally bankrupt and hypocritical in the extreme. They are losing practitioners in droves and as they retreat behind their dogma the institution will collapse into irrelevancy.

Catholics worldwide now have a Political Pope and Vatican..

The Nuns were doing the work of their teachings. G-d Bless them. They are wonderful servants. Will there now be "male" Nuns. Most are likely to leave their good work, if they are harassed and dissected by the Catholic Church, hung out to dry..

The Pope should stay out of Politics, and admonish the real monster; sexual molestation of innocent Catholic children, by Bishops, Priests.. That is swept under the rug. Look how many victims are out there.

The Vatican's responsibility is to get rid of these monsters that serve him, and treat the Nuns with respect. They are good souls.

@ Roy

The old testament quote from genesis? really? that was when God planned for people to expand we now have out of control population. You know you are suppose to go by the new Testement.

also King James was a man who had a man translate the bible. Anytime anything gets translated you lose something in the translation.

As for women teaching, why is Mary Magdeline considered an apostle for Jesus?

Dear Holy Father in the Vatican, God in heaven gave us his only Son to die on the Cross so mankind may be redeemed. You have caused another wound in Christ.

You are heeding the heretical call of the misogynistic people around you by condemning the blessed nuns who devote their lives to follow the holy commandment of love.

Pray for forgiveness to enable your holiness to see the light during this life.

Truth will prevail. Amen.

The Catholic church is NOT a democracy. They chose to make a political statement in contradiction of both the Council of bishops and church doctrine. I know I read it on another site. They seem to have forgotten they took a vow of obedience too. The Vatican was right. Actually the Catholic church was formed before the dark ages during the Roman Empire.

A study done by The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect found that even though only 25% of citizens in the U.S. are Roman Catholic, 54% of the sexual abuse cases were perpetrated by Catholic priests.

That's a complete lie.

Child abuse is a serious problem. Too serious to lie about just to spread your malicious and vile prejudices and hatred of Catholics.

135,000 children were sexually abused in the United States in 2006 alone. There are 41,000 Catholic Priests in America.

child abuse statistics from the "Fourth National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect" include that:

• children whose parents are unemployed have about two times the rate of child abuse and two to three times the rate of neglect than children with employed parents
• children in low socioeconomic families have more than three times the rate of child abuse and seven times the rate of neglect than other children
• living with their married biological parents places kids at the lowest risk for child abuse and neglect, while living with a single parent and a live-in partner increased the risk of abuse and neglect to more than eight times that of other children

And then there's this:

Child Abuse Statistics: Distribution of Child Abuse and Neglect by Perpetrator Characteristics

• Birth parents were the most closely related perpetrators for 72 percent of the physically abused children and for 81 percent of the emotionally abused children.
• Nearly one-half of the sexually abused children were sexually abused by someone other than a parent or parent-substitute, while just over one-fourth were sexually abused by a birth parent, and one-fourth were sexually abused by other than a birth parent or parent- substitute.

What can anyone expect from an institution that was formed in the dark ages and never came out of that period. I find the Catholic church ethically corrupt, morally bankrupt and hypocritical in the extreme. They are losing practitioners in droves and as they retreat behind their dogma the institution will collapse into irrelevancy.

uchusky99 "The poster Erin, and I do not presume to speak for her, never said that she did not believe in the bible. She pointed out that there may have also been other books and the historical fact that many of the books now in the bible were written centuries after Jesus' death..............Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith are not Catholic. Many people who look to the bible as the foundation of their faith cannot find one place where Jesus says women cannot be priests or contraception is wrong. Priests were married in the early church."

I addressed the issues of women as teachers and contraception in my Post #1.84, but I will agree that there were many writing from the First Century that did not make it into the Bible, but presumably competent scholars from that era made the decision on which books (mostly letters) to include. I believe that all of the books of the New Testament were written in the First Century - not later. And yes, Catholic Priests were allowed to be married for about the first 1000 years after Christ died.

When Erin said "The Bible only consists of the books it has today because a group of white guys decided which books to include hundreds of years after Jesus' death", I interpreted that to mean she didn't accept the current version of the Bible - If that's incorrect, I apologize to her. By the way - I don't think the Apostles would not be referred to today as 'a group of white guys', since they were Semites, as are Arabs today. Also, the last Book of the Bible (Revelation) was apparently written only about 60 years after Jesus death - By one of his Apostles.

@Herald9...you're too correct. If it weren't for the Puritans and Separatists we wouldn't have the glorious history of hanging people in the Boston Common for the heinous crime of being Quaker. Freedoms and Liberties a plenty we indeed owe to those fine men and women.

I'm a guy I hate islam because women are property orginal sin and all, same with Catholic church. Women everywhere need to wise up. No more Catholic that molest yout little boys while you are no good. You can't be preist you are not good enough. If you have a Catholic husband convert him or get rid of him. There is no reason that anyone should put up with this in the 21 century. Few things deserve the death plenty child molesting is the one that needs to be heavily enforced and if you knew the guy was a child molester and tried to hide it You need the death plenty too. 90% of the Catholic church is guilty and need to be executed for those crimes. I as a parent have a holy ordain changes the laws and kill the child molesters. The point is the Catholic church does not want the nuns to help the poor they want all the money for themselves. A piece of S**t is a piece of S**t and that is what the Catholic church and the head piece of S**t is

mtk05 "@ Roy The old testament quote from genesis? really? that was when God planned for people to expand we now have out of control population. You know you are suppose to go by the new Testement... As for women teaching, why is Mary Magdeline considered an apostle for Jesus?"

'2Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof , for correction, for training in righteousness;' I think that includes the Old Testament.

I never saw anything about the Old Testament being phased out. As for Mary Magdaline, I never saw her listed among the Apostles in the Bible. She was a 'disciple' (a taught one), but that's true of many men and women.

Public disagreement with the bishops -- "who are the church's authentic teachers of faith and morals"

HAHAHAHAHHAHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

There you have it folks; laugh of the day, even year!

ROFL You are wasting your time, Commonsense, casting pearls to swine. This topic is just candy for anti-religous bigotry, in general, and anti-Cathloc bigotry, in particular. This is the same crowd that gets off on magical Mormon underwear.

Another day, another Catholic leader opening their pie whole in an inappropriate manner. Religion and politics should be kept separate.

Time to move on. Bye

How women can follow a religion headed by men who claim it's unacceptable for women to offer their own opinions about anything rather than simply agreeing with the opinions of men, because men are superior to women and hold absolute authority over them, is beyond me.

This is like gay people being Republican. How on Earth can you be a member of any organization that makes it a central part of its mission to stomp you under foot?

One of the (many) sad things about those raised Catholic is that of all those who left the church - many went back. All it takes is one death of a loved one and they run back asap so as to save the soul of that loved one. The brainwashing is deeper than they realize.

Half the Bible is Catholic BS inserted 300 years after JC lived - I'm all for our schools teaching religious history - and staunchly against our schools teaching the word of God. That Pilgrim thing mentioned above is a smoke screen for those who choose not to educate themselves on religious history. By the time the Pilgrims settled in NORTH America - the Catholic church had already pillaged and plundered Central and the northern parts of South America, along with Florida. There was no escaping Europe to free themselves of religions from the East - the Pilgrims knew full well that the Catholic church already had a strong hold in the Americas and was expanding.

As a husband - if I can't use selective thinking - then you Christians can't either.

I do believe the Pope and others of the vatican have forgotten a passage from John8:7 states ''Let he who is with out Sin cast the first stone." God put us on this earth with our mind, he had created us in his image, but when eve was tempted by the snake (satan), and beleived this snake about the tree and ate the fruit of that tree, God had cursed man, for we were no longer in his image, and since eve and adam both ate from the tree that which god said one must not eat the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden or you will surely die, they commited a sin. And because they were no longer in a holy state, any child they concieved was born a sinner. The Pope, a sinner, He is trying to take away a womans thoughts, that is a sin. though God did curse eve saying that she and all her decendents would live with this curse, god said to eve, you will want your husband but he will rule over you. So clearly gods curse is working with this. The pope (man) is trying to rule over women. and because of the curse that god has placed on eve and her decendents, man and woman will no longer work as god had first created us to. as a partner. flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone. The pope is trying to be holy like and in doing so will fall farther from the ladder into heaven. what the POPE does not realize, that only god can decide if he is to get into heaven or if he is going to hell.

A study done by The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect found that even though only 25% of citizens in the U.S. are Roman Catholic, 54% of the sexual abuse cases were perpetrated by Catholic priests.

What a bunch of crap.

135,000 children were sexually abused in 2006 according the US Department of Health and Human Services.

In 2011, there were 700 allegations of sexual abuse by Catholic priests, and the vast majority were allegations of abuse that happened 40 or more years ago, and the priests involved are DEAD.

There were only 22 alegations of RECENT abuse by Catholic priests. Of those, 7 cases have been confirmed, and 3 have been determined to have been false accusations. 19 legitimate cases is still far too many, but it pales in comparison to 135,000.

19 out of 135,000 hardly sounds like 54% of all abuse cases.

Trust Verify needs to be trusted less and verified more often.

It also reprimanded American nuns for expressing positions on political issues that differed, at times, from views held by American bishops. Public disagreement with the bishops -- "who are the church's authentic teachers of faith and morals"

Would that include the Bishop who just compared President Obama to Hitler and Stalin? Is he one of those "authentic teachers of faith and morals"? The church is a patriarchy that no longer has the control of women it once was, and is flailing rather than examining it's own practice and perspective. The Catholic Church has been dragged haltingly out of the dark ages step by step, and will still be pulled further out of the ignorant superstitious past no matter how much it fights.

looks like they are a political group. excellent, now lets start taxing them like they should be. non profit my arse. they are more in politics than the tea party

So the Church wants to "quell internal dissent and curtail autonomy within its ranks." God forbid there's any autonomy!!! Didn't God give us free will? I guess since Eve used that free will to get us all kicked out of Eden, us women gave up our voice?

Get it straight nuns - the Bishops are the teachers! Since you went off-script, the Church will now fix the problem by appointing some men to set you straight. Just as it should be, right?

Wow. Just WOW.

And religion losses more followers in 3...2...1...

Nobody has to be a Catholic (I'm not) if they don't want to (including nuns). Nobody has to agree with their religion and nobody is forced to listen to it unless spoonfed by the media. Much ado about nothing except once again trying to force one's own views/morals/actions upon someone else that really doesn't care what you think. Just don't be Catholic, is there something impossible about minding your own business?

The catholic church was created on the basis of murder, political wrangling/murder, vicious and disgusting sexual abuse, and hipocrisy of every type and only in response to the imminent total loss of political power by the (former) Roman Empire. The idea that it has been allowed to create such havoc in our real world for so long is a testament to the effectivness of the psychological indoctrination it uses to continue it's power over humans who are otherwise sane people but abandon all reason and teach their children from a young age to do the same. It will take much strength of will and character of many, many people to finally break the stranglehold this incestuous and diabolical organization has had on humanity (in varying degrees) for 1700 years but it is a fight worth fighting. I just hope some new group of crazies doesn't manage to anoint itself in a similar fashion afterwords.....perhaps King Henry VIII thought the same when he smote them from power in England but regrettably had to replace them with Anglicans in order to stave off anger and hopelessness in the unenlightened. It's not an easy thing to make people realize how much more hopeful the world is WITHOUT Hocus Pocus unless we educate the most of them, and as you know we "can't afford education" just like we "can't afford universal healthcare" and we "Can't afford for the rich to pay their taxes" and we "Can't afford to have a liberal, socialist, marxist, left wing commie President" (a centrist guy who's African American, in other words) and all sorts of others things we can't afford in the richest country on the planet. It's gonna be a long, long fight but at least the sun is shining on the rotten corpse that is the moral basis of Catholicism. Shine on!

"America is awesome, if for nothing else, but for the freedom of speech. But when you use this blessing to lie, it also allows for correction.

You don't know about the Pilgrims or the Puritans. If you did, you would be grateful for their God ordained influence, without which we wouldn't enjoy the freedoms we have today."

Many of us know enough history that we later learned got exaggerated even in our classes. Did George Washington chop down the cherry tree than confessed to it to his father? -No. Was this country founded on Christian values? -No. Were the "Pilgrims" persecuted to the breaking point by the Catholic run government of England that they escaped and came to America to build a new colony? -No, they were Puritains, Calvanists not unlike Fred Phelps of the Westboro "God Hates Fags" Church. It was within a century after they settled on Plymouth Rock that they tortured and hung women accused of witchcraft. They made every effort to hold back our freedoms and it was only when the US Government became officially secular and other countries took simular revisions in their laws that we have become free as we are. As of the last 3 years, the church (regardless of the sect) has been trying to take away our rights and freedoms through the Tea Party and the Republican GOP and the majority of the population doesn't like it. I don't know about you, but I'm not looking foward to another holy war.

@3thirty3#1.89: I did upset you, and because I did, I am truly sorry. I should have kept the whole story to myself. Additionally, according to my wife too, I often appear smug. For that I apologize also. While the story isn't a delusion, It was really crass of me to write about It, and especially, describe certain details. Again, my sincere apologies. Regards

This does not surprise me a bit...Our late priest was a wonderful man, serving a church in a poor dangerous crime ridden area. Each Sunday he preached about ending violence, helping the poor & oppressed, ending racism/sexism. ending war, fighting for workers' rights, etc. To say the least, he was ALWAYS in trouble with the local Bishop for not pushing the political agenda of anti-abortion and anti-gay

I grew up in a catholic household in the Cleveland Diocese and this statement by the Vatican and bishops is just another reason why I left the church in 1990 because of the hypocrisy and pedophilia.

Did the Bishops and Cardinals forget the Sermon on the mount and Jesus teachings to heal the sick, feed the hungry, cloth the naked and comfort the afflicted? I don't remember Jesus mentioning opposing gay rights or ever mentioning abortion. If you want to cit Leviticus then why did they also forget the statements about eating seafood and other forbidden acts.

Did the boys in the silk robes and red beanies forget Proverbs 14:31?

Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God.

Isn't that wonderful! Nuns get lip from the Catholic Church but allow the male pedophiles run rampant! Typical of some men that only see the problem when it is associated to women but shut their mouths to abuse towards boy, girls and women.

Agreed, Fred Evil. I liked John Paul II. This nazi pope, on the other hand, pisses me off. The church needs to back off from the nuns. They were actually helping the poor.

Some of the male hierarchy of the Church continue to show how blind they've become to the planks in their own eyes, and how they've elevated (idolized?) rules, structures, & universal monolithic submission to a single mindset. WWJD? IMO, He would be saddened & outraged at lots of what comes out of Rome & other power centers of the hierarchy.

But the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, is the community of ALL its elements! -- the 'Church' is not to be equated with just the hierarchy of priests, Bishops, Cardinals, & Pope, although laypeople of the Church have been commonly 'taught' that the Head of the Body of Christ is the hierarchy of priests et al. In recent years (I'll omit passing judgement on all previous centuries) this Head of the Body of Christ has shown itself to be "mentally ill", so to speak, & morally tarnished, at least partially so. IMO it's time for the rest of the Body of Christ to step up and authentically lead the Church to more loving & open respect for all people. Just because the 'Head' is mentally ill, does NOT mean that the other parts of the Body should sever themselves from the Body; Christians can remain Christians when the 'Head' is diseased/stressed, and when the lay person's call is to stand up for what is right & holy challenges that 'Head' -- there is no need to excommunicate oneself from the community of believers.

IMO, Scriptures can be regarded as being the "divinely inspired Word of God", while still being one of several channels of humanity experiencing the heart & revelation of God. IMO, one can steadfastly maintain that Scriptures are the "divinely inspired Word of God", while still also maintaining that Scriptures bear us grace by being interpreted again & again in the context of changing perspectives of centuries of human culture. In this sense the Scriptures are alive and are continual well-springs of God's revelation & guidance to us. The perspectives of an earlier poster that Scriptural guidance on issues of human sexuality may change due to the lower human populations & lower capabilities of health care in previous millennia seems to be worthy of consideration.

Once again the Catholic religion is unable to maintain control over its employees. (lol) No surprise about the rebuke from the Pope. At least these women seem more realistic than the teachings of the church. If you side-step the religious aspects, what you really have are a group of empathetic women trying to help make life for the down-trodden a little better. Sound like anyone you know? Here's a hint - Mother Theresa; not a bad influence.

Wake up Pope, if you think your numbers are down now, punishing these women will only make it worse. Most people recognize religion for what it is, a business. You have employees that are actually following what you claim are the teachings of "God". Your problem with that is they are not fanatical right-wingers? Here's a hint, no employer has mind-control over their employees. In the minds of most people, your employees are doing their job - showing compassion for their fellow man. The more you chastise these women, the more you reveal the church's true calling - making money to support the church's theater and pagentry.

Roy some context please:

Genesis 38 'does' say that God was displeased with Onan 'pulling out' and shooting his seed on the ground...but it did so because he was commanded to have sex with his brothers wife! So it's not OK to pull out but it's ok to have sex with your brothers wife...??? So much for morals and the sanctity of marriage eh?

Genesis 21: 22-23 is the treaty of Beersheba. It talks about dealing falsely with his children & descendants (lying to them). No penalty is ever mentioned.

It is so sad that the Catholic faith is still seen as the "head" of Christianity. This faith is full of faults against what the Bible teaches. It was "born" by Romans because one Roman leader decided that praying to this one God made him win in battles. Thus it was adopted as the religion to have, not because of the teaching of Jesus or the Bible. As history has shown, Catholics in the following centuries have had many instances of immorality. The Vatican has been lustful for money, land, and the destruction of cultures and individuals that are against their depiction of the Word of God but mostly for personal greed. This is why so many Christians that believe in God but denounce the Catholic way of life have branched out (which many believe, as I, was God's direction to help man get back to the roots of his teachings). Now before Catholics "flip out", I am not saying all Catholics are bad, anti-Bible, or anti-God. I think it is good that the Catholic hierarchy is stepping out and letting the persons of cloth know what is expected of them in these positions. To be a better leader and push the teachings of the Bible not their personal agendas. Maybe there is hope for man-kind in the future before we destroy the earth and its contents, but unless we, as people, go back to our Biblical foundations, it is certainly looking dim for the next generations. God bless us all and give the righteous guidance.

It's like this, if you want to be Catholic then you need to follow what the church's policies are. I you do NOT agree with church policy, then find a church who policies you do agree with. They could become a charitable organization in their own right and then make their OWN policies. It is the same with any business; and that is what the Catholic church is a huge corporation, you follow company policy or get fired.

The Maitre "Roy some context please: Genesis 38 'does' say that God was displeased with Onan 'pulling out' and shooting his seed on the ground...but it did so because he was commanded to have sex with his brothers wife! So it's not OK to pull out but it's ok to have sex with your brothers wife...???"

I said in an earlier post that I'm not Catholic and don't presume to speak for them - I only offered Genesis 38 as a 'possible' scriptural basis for opposing contraception, based on my reading of the Bible (Yes, I have actually read the entire Bible - I wonder if many of the critics of the Bible have actually done so). I did find a link that purports to explain their position (below), but I personally don't have a problem with contraception - but at the same time, they should be entitled to their own teachings.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html

The nuns are wrong, the pope is right. They joined a group that limits the rights and speech of women and members.

They are suposed to do, act, pray, and say what they are told. No choice, no talking back. Obey.

Stupid? Yes, but it is what they signed up for. The church has never hid it's male centered, rule with an iron fist status.

What might be a good idea? Liberal catholics breaking off from the pope and starting their own group.

Hello folks, Catholicism, Socialism, Capitalism and all the other ism's are there for one thing and that is to control you. It's called the herd mentality. Once they have you painting yourself into an ideological corner you are now forced to defend the talking points of those ascribed leaders. You are no longer a critical thinker but a follower. Once they have you cornered they keep you in fear, divided, and distracted to the theft that is going on right in front of your eyes each and every second of the day. The theft of your money, civil liberties, and intellectual expansion dare I say your evolution. This can only be given not taken away so it is up to you.

The same thing applies to politics, our government is a two headed one party system serving their masters the Banksters/Federal Reserve and Wall Street.

Folks, this story is a nonstory; a "tempest in a teapot."

These so-called nuns are not stunned; they are insane - ie, individuals needing some American news exposure. This is all just playing to the news camera.

The nuns know the rules. They just choose to rebel. And it is stupid. They have other "choices". If they want to follow an anti-family and anti-life agenda they can go be atheist nuns where they'd be free to do so, and welcome with open arms. Or Episcopalians. Or Unitarians. They will fit right in.

This is just more of the same. It is like the gay who must go to the one orthodox photographer in town, out of the 500 photographers in town - three of which live on the same block as where the gay lives and the "wedding" will take place - and insist that the orthodox photographer take the photos or the PC stormtroopers will arrive to impose a fine.

And it is like the easy-going gal in the fake Catholic school who must open her legs because she can't control herself and the rest of us must pay for her pills. And it is like the gal with the need for an abortion whose brother-in-law is an OB-Gyn and an atheist just like her, yet she must "force" the orthodox MD 25 miles away to do her abortion or the PC stormtroopers will yank his license. The list goes on and on.

Notice how women are so often the pawns and sheeple in all this tripe. Are women really this easily fooled and manipulated? It is really embarrassing for women who still have a brain and their wits about them. It would be great if these immature fools and their manufactured protests would grow up and respect other people's space. Better still if they would just go away.

Really, wasn't Silver Spring, MD and Notre Dame all the code you needed to understand this phony offense from the git-go. Wowza.

The Church has long taught that a person should follow one's conscience even if it leads one in directions different from other formal teachings of the hierarchy of the Church. St. Thomas Aquinas (who lived about 800 years ago) and more recently John Henry Cardinal Newman were two highly respected spiritual guides on this issue. One site that respects this teaching is:
http://www.futurechurch.org/amillionvoices/consciencedissentandnonordination.htm

The Vatican has an embassy here.

They are a foreign nation.

Through actions like their petition in Washington state ( ordered by the same archbishop who's been put in charge of dealing with these nuns ), support of politicians like Rick Santorum who promise to forward the Vatican's agenda as national policy to be imposed on all of us, and publicly discouraging support of Catholic politicians like John Kerry who actually promise to uphold the idea of a separation of Church and State, they are attempting to influence our government while sheltering criminal child molesters, however large or small the number of those criminals are among the clergy in general.

Taxing them is not the answer. It's time to call this what it is and deal with it appropriately: a foreign government with no regard for our Constitution openly interfering with our nation.

Time to call it what it is and deal with it appropriately

Hello Yosho, you are absolutely right! The District of Columbia, The London Financial District, and the Vatican are all separate states from the countries they reside in. Actually they are corporations. The Act of 1871 clearly illustrates the United States of America changed to the corporate UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Corporation. You can Google or go to YouTube and look up Empire of the City. It outlines how these corporations work together.

I am a nurse and I have worked in a convent nursing home. Its also the Mother house for the nuns in their order. The average age of nuns was 73. But they did have several young nuns from South America, where they helped people in need. The Bishops will never be able to harness the nuns and silence them. They waited too long. I have gone to mass when the Priest accidentally said, "mankind." instead of "Humankind". and all the nuns stood up and walked out enmasse. LOL. I have seen a nun give a crying mother of five children condoms. I have seen the results of a nun piercing a woman's nose so she wouldn't get it done in the streets of India. I asked a Mother Superior if I had to get an annulment before I could go to Communion, and she told me to go by my feelings, if I felt that I honestly was divorced, go to receive the Sacraments, don't go by what the Priest said, go by what I felt in my heart. That's the new Nuns.

It's important for everyone to realize that the sexual abuse perpetrated by Catholic priests against innocent boys, (many of them altar boys, how handy...) is only part of the story.

Has anyone asked how many girls were defiled and traumatized? Many of the abused boys went home and molested their sisters, or raped the neighbor girl in an effort to prove to themselves they were weren't gay. Others joined the priesthood, only to abuse boys when unable to keep their sexual urges in check.

But we don't need to talk about that, do we? Yeah, that 7-year-old girl ASKED to be molested by her brother. After all, WOMEN are the sinners, so we asked for it, eh? BULL-ONEY!

We don't need any man to tell us how to live the message of Christ or act as mediator--no matter how holy he thinks he is! Rather, it's the other way round--a lot of "church-men," (they sure-as-hell ain't holy!) need to follow the lead of women, like these nuns, and do what's right, not what furthers the political and financial agenda.

And yeah, I agree with the others--tax the churches--all of 'em.

it is like the easy-going gal in the fake Catholic school who must open her legs because she can't control herself and the rest of us must pay for her pills

I love it when people cite something they obviously have no idea about. It makes it so much easier to dismiss the rest of their arguments without another spending two seconds them. Though they insist on remaining utterly ignorant, I thank them for the service of demonstrating their complete lack of knowledge immediately, and appreciate the saving of my time. I am in your debt.

Cassandra - forget about hypocrisy - it doesn't count when it comes to religion. After all, they all worship a God who can't even folllow his own simple rules - e.g. Thou shall not killl, etc.

Not unless it's Bishop Jenkey speaking. He's the Ted Nugent of Catholic Bishops, except with weirder clothes, re-inventing Father Coughlin from the 1930s.

Sure it is. They are free to speak exactly as they are told.

Right you are. It is based on the belief in God Almighty, His Bible, and the Judeo/Christian ethic.

Heraldo: "Right you are. It is based on the belief in God Almighty, His Bible, and the Judeo/Christian ethic"

If you are correct, then God help us. Because what these pedophile mysoginists preach is FAR from my idea of ethics, God, or Jesus teachings!

WWJD? He'd slap the sh*t out of the pope and he'd bless the nuns for their good works. Sad, isn't it, that for almost two thousand years, old men have been trying to tell the world how to live.

Wrong Herald, neither freedom of speech or any American values comes from God Almighty, His Bible, nor the Judeo/Christian ethic. In fact, our values of self-expression and self-rule go directly against the values practiced by/in God Almighty, His Bible, and the Judeo/Christian ethic.

The Catholic Church sucks balls, literally.

The Catholic church has always been about power and not about people. One way to maintain that power is to keep the women in the church down, and submissive (like the practitioners).

Freedom of speech is not a catholic doctrine

Wrong! Freedom of speech is not accepted in ANY religion

Freedom of speech is not accepted in ANY religion

I disagree. It is a central tenet of Pastifarianism.

Fred Evil,

"It is a central tenet of Pastifarianism."

Does this mean that when we ate spaghetti last night, we were actually having communion?

Flying Spaghetti Monster

You're wrong about Catholic teaching and freedom of speech.

If something is wrong, Catholics are morally obligated to speak out.

God bless nuns!

Yes commonsense, Catholics are morally obligated to speak out, but that does not mean that the Catholic CHURCH accepts and promotes it, hence the open contradictions of the Cathilic doctrine and reality.

Fred you are right! Long Live FSM!

Barbara -1012158 Yes! You have partaken of the body of the Deity! As we have all seen, FSM is everywhere and takes many forms. From hard and straight, to al dente, to gooey mush.

@herald9 - dude, the hallucinations and superstitions of a bunch goat herders and cactus farmers who lived of 2000 years ago really shouldn't have quite so much influence on our lives. And if you want to believe in what Christ said, the nuns are acting out his words. If you believe in Christ, the nuns are bound for heaven; the pope and the bishops, by denying and condemning succor to the least among us, are bound straight for hell.

I smell a rat

This Pope has been hard at work to undo Vatican II since he was elected. He see a Church under siege, instead of a Church called to mission. All that he is interested in doing is asserting his authority and reactionary views. John Paul II, you are missed.

What's the deal with 'Ol Teddy Nugent? Sorry I must've missed that story. Someone want to link me?

....if you don't want to follow the tenets of the Catholic church, exit stage right and join the Episcopalian church. But you can't take vows and then be a buffet line Catholic, picking and choosing what to adhere to and what to ignore . It never was a democracy and never will be. And any deviant priests are totally irrelevant to nuns choosing disobedience over obedience to the vows they chose by FREE WILL.

He see a Church under siege, instead of a Church called to mission.

That entirely sums it up, love the quote!

The Nuns are free to walk away from their vows. They can create their own God and religion as did Martin Luther and others. They can face the consequences at the end when they meet their maker. Most people that are Catholic or were Catholic were taught the Pope was Infallible when it came to matters of Church, thus no excuses.

To all you people stick your nose were it doesn't belong, birth control and abortion has always been an issue with the Catholic Church. There is no issue with the nuns stepping aside from the social issues, they are not needed, the government decided that it was the taxpayers responsibility and would do for them. Aren't they doing a good job?

Check out St. Thomas Aquinas's teaching that if there's a conflict between one's conscience and the formal directives of the Church hierarchy, then a person SHOULD follow her/his own conscience. This has been the teaching of the Church for 800 years.

Yet you replied to her, and directly at that! I love irony....

Sarita S,

As a devout Pastafarian, I concur with your views; but must decry your dissing of dinos

by comparing these dearlyl departed beasties to Vatican hierachy.

As a devout Pastafarian, I concur with your views; but must decry your dissing of dinos

by comparing these dearlyl departed beasties to Vatican hierachy.

LOL, I love it.

Oh lord, blessed be thy FSM. May your noodely appendages reach down and touch mankind, hallowed be thy fork...

thy kingdom come, thy will be done, pass the parmesian.

thy kingdom come, thy will be done, pass the parmesian.

lol. Is that from the sermon on mount meatball?

good stuff folks, keep em comin' :)

yes, it was the day 4 meatballs and one loaf of garlic bread fed 60 full grown italians. a miracle i say!

commonsense, so the church has a 2000 year old history? wow! so according to them they've been around for half of all time of earth and the universe? aren't these the same idiots that think the universe was created in one day? and the earth is 4000 years old?

so the church has a 2000 year old history?

Yes.

You can read about the earliest days in the Bible. Eusebius of Cesarea (circa AD 263-339) wrote about the next 300 years. After that, you're on your own.

aren't these the same idiots that think the univserse was created in one day? and the earth is 4000 years old?

No.

Church teaching is in no way inconsistent with the Theory of Evolution or the Big Bang Theory (which was championed in its early days by a Catholic Priest).

Perhaps you were thinking about opposition to the teachings of Nikolai Kopernik and Galileo Galilei(who were both Catholic, by the way) five hundred years ago.

You really should get with the times.

Sarita the thing I like most about the Catholic church is that it does not change with every whim of society. If that is what you want in your church you need to look elsewhere. I do not believe in relative morality. Killing is killing. Abortion is murder. That stance is well known within the church. These nuns made a political statement in the ACA debate in contradiction of this well known belief of the church. I know because I read the statement online on a different site. If these nuns do not believe a core belief of the church they need to find a church that fits them. Because in the Catholic church only one person speaks in matters of faith and morals and he just has.

Lonereb,

there are tenents and truths that do not change over time and they are found in the Gospel. However, as humans have become more aware of our own fallicies of thought and what is true it is here that the catholic church fails to recognize this and digs its heels in, in the name of God. Wasn't it just recently that the RCC rescinded its previous standing on Galileo and his findings? After 2000 years did the church just recently, past 40 years, admit that the Jews were not responsible for the crucifiction and be consisdered the fathers of christian belief? Has it not been since the civil rights movement of the 60's that the RCC began to fully embrace equality regardless of race? there are so many instances of the human condition through questioning, dialoging, and open to the change, that have made this world more just for people. Why has the RCC then still tenaciously hold on to the myth that women are not equally graced to proclaim His message.

These women look at the marginalized of society and they try to bring the unconditional love and presence of God to these groups. The RCC wants to distance itself and reject those of certain groups, mostly homosexuals. They see the faces of poor women who can barely feed their current children and ask is it morally, ethically, and as a christian woman, to deny birthcontrol until they may stabilize their families in order to fully welcome new children. These women see the heartbreak of parentless children whose mother and father have died of AIDS and ask is it so eggregious to supply condoms that can save families. The RCC is holding fast to the same outdated playbook of what it means to be catholic today. catholicism is much more than the current issues in the headlines. Being a catholic in good standing is more than towing the line that the vatican has drawn. What you are seeing is realization that the RCC needs to come up to speed and stop living in a past that is irrelevant to todays needs. Catholicism is much much more than pray, pay and obey. It is listening to the Holy Spirit and adapting ourselves to reflect God's intentions. God is not a statue that stands locked in one pose, but asks each of us animate through his direction. It is the RCC that has become the statue locked in one pose unable to see the changes God is asking of us. It's up to all of us whether we are going to go kicking and screaming to this new reality.

@LoneReb,
(1) You write

in the Catholic church only one person speaks in matters of faith and morals

I think you are off there -- the Bishops, qua Magisterium, also teach in matters of faith & morals.

(2) You write

I do not believe in relative morality. Killing is killing.

So you are against all self-defense, all police killing, all wars? What about killing dogs or other animals for food?

OK, follow your conscience.

commonsense............... You're as bad as most priests I've known all too well.

Crawl back under your rock.

Commonsense, you don't seem to have any. You can ask any one of my brothers, or myself, what went down in Catholic high school in the 1960s and 1970s. Priests punching students wasn't the least bit unusual. I don't recall physical violence being part of the "time-honored Catholic teaching".

Fortunately, priests are becoming extinct, and you won't find many, if any, in Catholic high schools anymore.

I can buy it. I had a priest tell me that my father was drunk at his funeral. I was 10 at the time. Total lack of sensitivity in the Catholic Church.

I wasn't an orphan. I was homeless. As in, I was kicked out by my family when I was sixteen for not being feminine enough.

The nuns treated me with courtesy. The priests blamed me for my predicament. You may call me a liar, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened. I have no issue criticizing clergy for acting out exactly the attitudes you see in this article, and you need to stop blindly raging at folks who contradict your worldview, 'commonsense'.

You really don't know how damaging it is, as a homeless kid, to be told that you're homeless because you made god mad. Do you know what that did to my self-esteem and my faith?

Commonsense, I'll be blunt and call you an idiot. The reverend didn't say she was an orphan. She said she was a homeless teen. May have been a runaway, may have been thrown out by parents, may have been a troublemaker. In any of those situations, it's obvious that she needed help, not condemnation and judgement from the church.

The problem it has always seemed to me is about this "Authority" one has over another...Where is the Freedom in Dogma? search within yourself without beliefs....You are THAT, that you have been searching for...Your ONE with All...Don't let that CHURCH bind you any longer. Peace...truth is a Pathless Land!

And another thing, commonsense, since you're so sure that no Catholic priest would EVER directly contradict basic, time-honored Catholic teaching that stretches back over 2,000 years, does that mean that raping little boys was part of that teaching?

No kidding.

Also, my 'troublemaking' was reading fantasy books, comic books, and in general being a serious nerd who wasn't really into boys (at the time) or looking pretty; I was acting like a 'feminist' and not 'acknowledging the differences between men and women'.

My grandmother had helped raise me as a kid, and she had been a devout catholic, and taught me never to drink, do drugs, smoke, or sleep around. As one of my few kind role models, I wanted to live up to her example.

Every day, clergy forget the teachings they supposedly learned. There are plenty of stories in America (and other countries!) where that's been the case.

The R.C.C. missed the most important reformation of the true Christian church in the 16th century.

They have been, and will continue to reap the harvest of their love of man and his traditions over the Bible and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

"Salvation is by grace through faith", and as the Lord said," You must be Born Again."

"There is only one mediator between God and man, the Son of God, the Son of Man, Jesus Christ."

Rev Sylv, I believe you. But I have personally heard the God's Punishment schtick from clergy both Catholic and Protestant. I have also read that clergy regularly told children living in grinding poverty in 19th century England and America that they were being punished for their sins or the sins of their parents. Even Dickens wrote about it.

The best (or worse) was when I was at the graveside funeral for a very young child who had died of a sudden illness. A Pentecostal preacher loudly proclaimed in front of the broken hearted parents that they must have greatly sinned for God to have taken their little girl.

As for these nuns: Stand your ground, Sisters!

Amen!

I was brought up Catholic and went to Catholic school 8 years. A priest shoved me to the cement one day for daring to be near him playing kickball when he was playing basketball. I asked him why he did that and he said I was in his way. I said he was a priest and supposed to represent God, and how was pushing down little girls part of that plan. He said this was a playground and on a basketball court all those rules didn't count. He saw my bleeding knees and bruised up elbows and head and said I needed to grow up. I said he had helped me do that and that I would know whenever he gave sermons that he was a liar and walked off to the nurse. I saw other kids treated badly as well, and not by just this one priest. I definitely got an education, but it wasn't only in class.

Why on earth would those nuns be surprised that the church leaders would treat them like crap? They have treated women that way forever...I couldn't be an altar boy despite the fact that I read every day in church, sang, sang at funerals, and wrote special things for fancy services. I asked why not and the priests said girls weren't allowed to be altar boys or priests, and I asked why? What part of being a priest or altar boys could girls not do? I never could get an answer on that one. I suppose having a penis makes one...well, I have no idea what except equal in the eyes of the Church.

So ladies, do you see now they don't care about you or the flock that most of you care about? They want you to serve them, not God, Jesus, or anyone else. This is a political/religious agenda and about keeping you all under their thumbs, and it hasn't been about helping the poor, feeding the hungry, making sure all the kids they insist women carry and pay for, or any of the other things that it appears to be. It is about money, power, control, politics, and the religious agenda, and if you don't think they will run you over and toss you out to keep the rules enforced you are naive.

And no, I don't hate Catholics or the good things that are done. I am not bashing Catholics or these nuns. I am simply saying the truth about what the higher levels of the Catholic Church are about, and I'm not angry and bitter...I just see how things work and I am surprised they would be confused or surprised. If the Church is busy controlling the American uteri and some supposed only proper family lifestyle, then why would they be interested in doing the good deeds Jesus was supposed to be about? The two goals aren't compatible.

Common sense, lack off!

The Catholic cult are not 2000 years old, nor are they Christians, they did not become formed until 300 years after the real Christians..ignorance is a curse you know...true knowledge, get some.

This article puts in a nutshell the reasons I left the Church years ago.

Common sense - you haven't known very many Priests, have you!?

Priests punching students wasn't the least bit unusual

I don't doubt that you got punched by a Priest.

I DO doubt that a Catholic Priest would ever tell anyone that God hated them and that's why they had problems.

Anti-Catholic bigotry is strong in America and fed by lies like that one even more than it is by idiots like Rick Santorum.

I do NOT believe that Catholic Priests unanimously told 'Reverend' Taylor that God hated her or was punishing her. I call BS on that one.

The church really knows how to reel in new members. I am a "cradle Catholic", but this Pope is losing me. Is the Vatican also trying to revert back to pre-Vatican II? More bull-sh*t from the Vatican.

Mary the Catholic church is not a popularity contest. I was a cradle Catholic too. I left my church because I just had to do it my way. I knew that I was right and they were wrong. That was 40 years ago and last year on Good Friday I came back because I learned the hard way that I wasn't that smart. I learned that if I had done it their way life would have been so much easier. Lord not my will but Yours be done.

I DO doubt that a Catholic Priest would ever tell anyone that God hated them and that's why they had problems.

A few years back, my Grandmother was dying of cancer. So we moved her in with us. I was the one taking care of her, making sure she got breakfast and lunch and making dinner for the three of us at night. The local Catholic priest whom had met me when my Dad died of cancer came in one day to talk to my Grandmother and give her Communion. During that time, he referred to me as a horse's ass to her. She was a devout Catholic lady, doing her rosary daily, etc. But after that, she told my Mom, that she didn't want him near her ever again, but didn't say why. She did finally tell my Aunt, but bade her to secrecy about it until after her death (my GM's not my Aunt's). After the funeral, my Aunt told me and my Mom about what the priest had said. I never had much respect for Religion before then, I had even less afterwards. And I was raised Roman Catholic - but I saw the light young.

Having attended Catholic school for 12 years, I can vouch for the horrendous behavior of some of the priests (and nuns) toward kids.
commonsense, believe them.

Also, my 'troublemaking' was reading fantasy books, comic books, and in general being a serious nerd.

Let the age of the nerds rise and give us at least some childish fun. But back to the point I hate your parents rev.

Too much 'hate'-language expressed from different angles, too much injury caused by failing humans, too much exaggeration claiming that gray is black or gray is white. Of course some elements of every religious community have sinned or been sick or ignorant.

The Church is not monolithic -- the Church, the full Body of Christ, is composed of all Christians (billions of people), and as a subgroup of the Church, the Roman Catholic Church is composed of all Roman Catholics. The Church hierarchy official stance for 800 years has been that an individual's conscience should be followed if it conflicts with formal teaching of the Church hierarchy. Just because some of us were told something in youth or adulthood by nuns and/or priests, does not mean that what people were told was the official discerned position of the Church hierarchy, nor is it likely that people were informed of the disagreements between the variations of different discernments about issues.

We don't know what Jesus thought about birth control (whether by condom or 'the pill' or the 'morning after pill' or methods of His day -- of course, we're not even sure that His society was widely aware of the direct link between intercourse & reproduction [since over the past 2 centuries, some cultures have been found that did not have this knowledge]), ordination of women, war, homosexuality, test tube babies and surrogate mothers, relationships among different denominations of Christian communities, etc., since there is no reference in the New Testament (or other early writings of the Church) to Jesus addressing these (& of course, some issues that we face today hadn't yet arisen in history at the time that Jesus lived; moreover, Jesus & His contemporaries were not aware, as we are today, of the breadth of cultures/religions all around the world).

And no one has a perfect copy of the original writings of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, or the dates that different portions were written, and what alterations were made over the first 1000 years; nor do we know how the cultures/authors throughout those millennia interpreted words, phrases, ideas. [As an extreme example, there are some words in the Hebrew Bible that occur exactly ONCE in the entire Bible, an nobody today knows the meaning of.]

I doubt that any one of us can honestly claim "[such & such] was common (or uncommon) in the Catholic Church in America in my youth", since none of us has conducted a sufficiently thorough & robust survey of goings on among thousands of communities across the nation.

The Church does not teach child molestation, any more than the United States of America madates cannibalism (Jeffrey Dahmer was American after all).

And if you think that every child molester who ever lived was Catholic, you are wrong.

The Church is not at all in opposition to the teachings of Jesus Christ. If Jesus taught it, the Church stands by it. That is a basic and unchagning principle for the past 2,000 years.

You might disagree with what Jesus taught about homosexuality (I can't point to anything he said one way or the other) or the taking of human life. If so, make your point as respectfully and intelligently as you can if you want to be convincing. Calling the Catholic Church "evil" is ridiculous.

Whether this Bishop has grounds for his critcism of the nuns is not something I can speak about, since I have't read his report. But besides being a Bishop, he is just a man. He has no super powers and he is not perfect.

Personally, I like the nuns.

I suspect that a lot of this flap has to do with the way different people are interpreting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act with respect to abortions.

The nuns came out and said their interpretation was that Catholic institutions couldn't be forced to offer abortions and that public funds would not be used for abortions. A group of Catholic Bishops came to the opposite conclusion.

commonsense,

No one said that the church taugh it. They just tolerate it and tacitly encourage it by allowing known child molesters to move around to other parishes to continue their disgusting behavior.

Also, I recall from the bible where jesus taugh to help the poor and downtrodden. I missed the part were he talked about sex and contraception. Maybe you can enlighten us.

The Church does not teach child molestation

commonsense.... No, they just protect those within the church that practice it. The Catholic Church's failure wasn't that it had priests who were child molesters, they come from all walks of society. It was the chruch's decision that hiding their child molesting priests, thereby protecting the image of the church, was more important than protecting the children who were actually being molested. I would love to hear how you can defend this position.

Jesus taught nothing about homosexuality.

Commonsense,

Of course the church does not teach molestation. It was the way the church handled the molestation cases and in many cases permitted them to proceed by moving priests to other parishes. I've even read cases where Jesuits shuttled children around for certain pedophile priests. If you permit or foster the molestation of children, or hinder the investigation of it and deny it, then in my mind, it is an evil and sinful act.

Commonsense, the very existence of the Catholic church, and every practice/custom/ritual which makes it uniquely Catholic, is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

commonsense

"The Church does not teach child molestation"

No but they did a damn good job of trying to hide it!

"Personally, I like the nuns."

No arguement there!

They just tolerate it (child abuse) and tacitly encourage it

No, they don't. Every Catholic parish around the world has instituted a program to educate people about the crime of pedophilia and how to detect and guard against it.

Nearly all of the cases coming to light were abuses committed decades ago by Priests who have been dead a long time.

The Catholic Church has a strict policy of cooperating with any civil investigation, and has waived the statute of limitations IN ALL CASES, which is why there is so much coming to light now. It is an effort to purge the Church of the horrible actions of the criminal Priests (and any idiot Bishop who may have tried unsuccessfully to reform the culprit and protect his victims from public humiliation).

Was there more pedolphilia within the Church than without?

NO.

I get it.

Since I defend Catholics against what I consider bigoted remarks, you want to insult me.

Same as when I defend Muslims, or immigrants, or African Americans, or gays, or Latinos.

Haters love to hate, and they hate it when someone tries to set the record straight.

We don't really care all that much...simply stay away from our lives, do what you like within your cult but, if you interfere with our political statutes, we will kick your stupid heads, all the way back to that Roman hellhole, which was originally Constantinople, where this filthy cult began.The message is, we do not want nor need you. Who would, except a screwball.

we will kick your stupid heads

Haters love to hate

Commonsenseless,

"Nearly all of the cases coming to light were abuses committed decades ago by Priests who have been dead a long time."

There are at minimum 37 members of the Catholic clergy under investigation for child abuse at this time just in the US, and all of them are still alive.

None of the so called compromises on the PPACA have been written into the law. That said since it is the belief of the Catholic church that contraception is abortion is murder. Contraception doesn't prevent conception after all it just prevents the already fertilized egg from either attaching to the uterine wall or developing. That is why the last seven pills are different. Since the Catholic church believes life begins at conception not at some arbritary later date they and I cannot be a party to what we consider murder.Paying for contraceptives would be accesory to murder. If you cannnot understand that then you will have to arrest me because I will not comply.

lonereb where did you go to medical school? Birth control includes condoms and birth control pills,(BCP)

BCPs prevent ovulation...nothing more nothing less. If you are pregnant and still take BCPs your baby will do fine. Know the facts before you state something. PS Jesus and the new testament never said anything about women not being priests, contraception or homosexuality. The old testament talks about killing people who aren't part of your tribe, burning children as offerings and having many wifes.

lonereb, nobody that supports the affordable healthcare act wants to arrest you. The plan does not force anyone to participate. You can purchase health insurance anywhere you please. You can even refuse to buy health insurance as long you pay the additional taxes for the uninsured (providing you have taxable income). You can only be arrested if you refuse to pay taxes on taxable income ( even on moral or religious grounds). That is nothing new. That law has been on the books for many decades.

It is the Christian right that wants to outlaw abortion and some would outlaw contraception. It is the Christian right that wants to arrest free people for exercising that freedom outside church doctrine.

@LoneReb wrote

it is the belief of the Catholic church that contraception is abortion is murder. Contraception doesn't prevent conception after all it just prevents the already fertilized egg from either attaching to the uterine wall or developing.

Wow. Come on Reb! Are you trying to precipitate readers dismissing all of your other posts as nonsense, because of your above nonsense statements? Keep telling us that a condom just prevents the already fertilized egg from either attaching to the uterine wall or developing! That's some strange condom, Reb. And keep telling us more nonsense that using a condom, or diaphragm, or ovulation control pill is murder! Don't you think when you so obviously associate yourself to Roman Catholicism and you write such nonsense, that readers here might come to think that Catholics don't know how to think?

@shersp is right on the mark.

Support the right to life and right to respect from womb to tomb, including social support services, education, healthcare, justice, and job opportunities.

when has Christianity ever cared about what Jesus said ?

Peter:

When it was convenient to do so.

The poor, homeless and sick are inconvenient so forget what Jesus said about those and make them pay more taxes, kick them out of their homes and forget healthcare.....too expensive.

That second commandment is is defined by the first and greatest commandment to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind".

Without the first it is possible to love in an ungodly way as well as ungodly things.

When your love is defined first in God it necessarily means you will hate sin and make it impossible for you to love things which are not of God.

The truth is that people who are "disgusted" by the Catholic Church usually just disagree with some particular teaching.

People who divorce and remarry don't want to go through the annulment process because they expect it to be unpleasant and remind them of things they'd rather not think about.

People who are actively gay have a particularly personal reason for objection.

But most people have simply been 'taught' to hate the Catholic Church, for reasons that have nothing to do with Catholicism.

"Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a wonderful teaching, and one that all Catholics must take to heart.

I think those Catholic nuns do a great job of living out that particular teaching, don't you agree?

I think those Catholic nuns do a great job of living out that particular teaching, don't you agree?

commonsense.... - Apparently the Vatican would disagree with you.

Thankful -

I absolutely love the Lord. That love tells me he doesn't make mistakes.

I know in my heart that he made all of his children EXACTLY the way they are, and there is no reason for us to persecute or judge anyone.

Hate the sin; love the sinner.

most people that find the catholic church and other religions disgusting do so cause they don't follow their religions tenants wet try to force them on everyone else.

I know in my heart that he made all of his children EXACTLY the way they are

so he made murderers and serial killers along with rapists yet he doesn't make mistakes? yeah, now there's a god worth worshipping.

/sarcasm

So much better than the preceding idiocy...makes my skin crawl, bloody praying Mantis, praying for what.

Oh, commonsense, your name doesn't match your posts. You are just wrong that people have been taught to hate the Church or that they only disagree with a little of the dogma. Sure, some have, but you will find that most can give you many good reasons that they disagree with how the upper levels of the organisation (business) are run. They disagree with how the nuns and the followers are disrespected, how the agenda is pushed that is designed to control women and children, how children have been devastated by perverts who were shielded and still are, how the money coming in from the collection plates are used, how arbitrary rules unrelated to Jesus' teaching are enforced to keep a few old men in power, and how hypocritical the behaviors are in the leaders.

I don't hate the Church. I don't hate Catholics. I was taught by some really mean and unhappy nuns, but also by some who seemed to genuinely like to teach and were nice. No one taught me to dislike how the Church is run except the Church. You can make excuses all day and dismiss those who have been there and seen what goes on if you need to as haters, but there is truth to what is being said.

The point is that this isn't surprising at all, and you can blame everyone you want, but there are serious issues in the Church that could be corrected if the leaders were actually on the same page as most Catholics are. They just aren't...that is the truth.

If the teaching is "love thy neighbor as thyself" why don't they just practice that? It doesn't say hate or control or molest or cover up, get rich and have huge holdings in secret banks, treat women like second-class citizens, doesn't say to make people make choices they don't want to make about sex, doesn't treat gays badly...where do those and other actions fit in with "love thy neighbor as thyself?" Many some (as with any other group some do some don't) live that, but I don't see the leaders doing it at all. Perhaps they should take it to heart and make the Church into a place where people find comfort and help, peace, and support.

You have no idea why a particular person wants an annulment and it isn't your business anyway. That is the issue...all the personal decisions people make aren't your business or the priests', bishops', cardinals', or pope's either. If you want to really love your neighbor as yourself you can't sit and judge him or her and find a person inferior and to be controlled, tossed out, or ostracized. All that stone-casting is going to result in lots of big bruises on their own heads.

When your love is defined first in God it necessarily means you will hate sin and make it impossible for you to love things which are not of God.

Thankful: So, you're saying that if you follow that first greatest commandment to love God, then it's impossible to follow the second greatest commandment to love thy neighbor, unless thy neighbor happens to fit all your demands for being godly? If that were the case, Jesus would have said that the second greatest commandment was to "Love thy neighbor as thyself, unless of course they're not as Christian as you."

If you follow Jesus' teaching, then you must love thy neighbor as thyself. No exceptions.

most can give you many good reasons

And most of those reasons turn out to not even be true.

They disagree with how the nuns and the followers are disrespected

I like the nuns. I seem to be the only person here defending them.

As to the Catholic Church disrespecting Catholics, that is merely YOUR perspective as a NON-Catholic. I don't see any evidence you have any knowledge about the Church at all.

Besides, the Catholics ARE the Church. You seem to be confusing the Church with the Church hierarchy.

children have been devastated by perverts

That much is horrible. And the Church has launched a GLOBAL program to eradicate the abuse of children, which it considers a grievous sin.

Those Priests you are talking about are also American, but I don't see you blaming America or the American government or people, nor do I see any national effort to eradicate the abuse of children in America.

perverts who were shielded and still are

Almost all of those perverts are DEAD. The overwhelming majority of the abuses took place many decades ago, but they are coming to light NOW because the Church hierarchy has waived the statute of limitations in ALL jurisdictions around the world, to help bring all bad practices to light so they can be eradicated in future. The notion that people are being hidden or encouraged to abuse children is utter nonsense. More hateful propaganda.

how the money coming in from the collection plates are used

You have absolutely no idea how the money in the collection 'plates' are being used (I've never seen a 'plate' used in any Catholic Church in North America, Europe, Africa, or Asia). Most Catholic churches happily tell their parishioners what they money is used for. Usually it involves paying salaries and housing expenses for clergy, salaries for paid staff positions, building and building maintenance funds, educational materials, community events held at or by the local church, and charity. Nothing evil or nefarious. Nothing secret.

I was taught by some really mean and unhappy nuns

Which might explain a lot.

And you were taught at a Catholic school, even though you are not Catholic.

And you were never abused.

some who seemed to genuinely like to teach and were nice

God bless the nuns.

I don't see the leaders doing it at all

Do you even know any?

I know a lot of Catholic Priests and some Catholic nuns. ALL of them live out a life of "love your neighbor as yourself".

NONE of them try to control or abuse women or children or have huge secret bank accounts or any of the other horrible things that you are charging them with.

Since your criticisms are not true, where did you 'learn' them?

ram-762581

If the teaching is "love thy neighbor as thyself" why don't they just practice that?

they might be if they hate themselves or have low self esteem or worth.

What do you expect from a Nazi pope and his pedophile entourage?

If the teaching is "love thy neighbor as thyself" why don't they just practice that?

That's exactly what I see the nuns doing.

It's not at all what I see the people posting comments here doing, though. Most of the comments here are propaganda designed to foster contempt for, and intolerance of, Catholics.

dassala, well said in post #6 add that per my understanding we are all created equal. From a family whose members became nuns and priests this is very disconcerting. As many have posted giving to the poor and sick has always been a priority especially if one has been "blessed." Oddly, Pope Benedict XVI taught, "love for widows and orphans, prisoners, and the sick and needy of every kind, is as essential to {the church} as the ministry of the sacraments and preaching of the gospel." (Deus Caritas Est. no. 22) This preferential treatment option for the poor and vulnerable includes all who are marginalized in our nation and beyond, unborn children, persons with disabilities, the elderly and terminally ill and victims of injustice and oppression." Seems the Vatican is too insulated to the hardships and problems of America's people. I support the nuns efforts and believe that they never intended or willfully did deviate from the Church's beliefs. Rather I'd say the Church has an agenda and sadly it's linked to America's politics. A Catholic Bishop from Peoria, Il did worse he compared President Obama to Hitler and Stalin this week using unsubstantiated reasoning. Bishop Daniel Jenky statements are just as worrisome. No religion should influence or threaten any public servant of our nation. The Catholic church seems to make America's policy decisions a personal matter when they should not be. We respect all religions not regard one as the only faith for all.

The nuns are just as Catholic as the Bishop who rebuked them.

The nuns took an oath of obedience. They took it freely nobody held a gun to their head. They were free to back out right up to the minute they took it. They publically spoke out in contradiction to a church core principle on contraception. I read the statement. On matters of faith and morals in the Catholic church only one person speaks. We take that as another core principle of the faith. On matters of faith and morals the Pope has the final word. If you don't believe that you really aren't a Catholic and you need to find a church that fits your moral relativism.

lonereb, I find that your sentiments describe the Catholic Church to perfection. They also describe the greatest failings of the Church. Religion, from it's earliest beginnings, must rely on faith. Faith in God ( no matter His name ) and not leaders or the leader of a particular church. Faith is a personal relationship between God and every individual. It is not a relationship dictated or ruled by any church hierarchy or head of church.

If we are to merely obey all of the teachings of any Church, we have no need of faith or a personal relationship with God. We then become too lazy or complacent to search our hearts and faith for our true personal relationship with God. Just show up and put money in the collection plate. You're good to go.

I believe there are many good Catholics, Mormons, Muslims and many other members of various religious organizations. Those that vigorously defend and obey all the laws of such a church (led by men) are followers of men and not God.

Those nuns are every bit as Catholic as the Bishop who criticized them.

And there is a world-wide movement within the Catholic Church to make sure that the abuse of children is eradicated.

Pedophilia is a horrible thing. Pedophiles seek out positions of trust and authority where they have access to their vicitms. They are drawn to places like churches (Catholic and Protestant and evangelical and non-Christian alike), schools, youth organizations (Boy Scouts, Little League, football, etc.), charities, and all kinds of other 'good' organizations, just so they have access. And they are good at remaining hidden.

There are over one billion Catholics, and a mere 308 million Americans. Why is it you didn't foresee the woman who shot a mother to death and kidnapped her baby in a parking lot in Texas last week?

Is it because you are evil? Or was it only the Governor of Texas who was at fault?

There is a saying that it's not the crime but the cover-up that gets you.

In this case, the crime was bad enough, the cover-up made it unconscionable - especially from an organization whose sole reason for existence is to teach morality.

I'm sorry man, you sound like a devout catholic, and for all I know you are a great individual, but you can't defend the indefensible. You can't even make a viable excuse for it. The best the church and its parishioners can do is admit, accept, apologize, and prosecute. No more. No less.

JM-1992894

The best the church and its parishioners can do is admit, accept, apologize, and prosecute.

I agree, and those are exactly the steps that the Church is taking. Click here and here. Of particular note is this excerpt:

Civil law concerning reporting of crimes to the appropriate authorities should always be followed.

The Vatican has already apologized for these tragedies. See my posts below.

the crime was bad enough, the cover-up made it unconscionable

The crime is horrible as every Catholic agrees, up to and including Pope Benedict.

No one is defending the crime of pedophilia.

Everyone agrees that the crime is ever more heinous when it is committed by a man of the cloth, who should be inspring children and making them feel closer to God, not destroying their lives making their very existence a kind of living Hell.

There is no cover up. The Church itself is bringing all this into the open to ensure that it does not happen again.

The United States once practiced slavery openly and legally. That, too was a horrible travesty. That does not make me hate America, nor does my love for America make me think that slavery was okay.

@JM wrote, regarding the pedophile priest & cover-up Bishops scandals:

The best the church and its parishioners can do is admit, accept, apologize, and prosecute. No more. No less.

The Church can do more. The Church, laity as well as 'religious' hierarchy from Bishops to Pope, can think, pray, & discern about what factors contribute to this problem. Is it so simple as saying that the adults who commit such sinful crimes are evil people? We should suspect that there are elements of the structure & sociology of the Church that increase the likelihood of such criminal sins happening.

(1) The laity may have been too prone to putting priests up on a pedestal as if priests are better living saints than parents who face daunting realities of life; once perceived as up on a pedestal, parents are less likely to believe children's complaints, less likely to call for investigations of priests & Bishops, more likely to blindly support priests & Bishops and to encourage their kids to "listen to good Father Fukker".

(2) With such perceived chasms between the "lowly" laity and the "saintly" clergy (a chasm perceived by both laity and clergy), it is less likely for priests & lay people to develop friendships & social interaction; when priests have such a vacuum of normal social life & normal adult relationships, I suspect that they are less resistant to temptations toward deviant criminal sinful behaviours. Of course, it's frequently more difficult for married people and single people to inter-socialize, so the unmarried status of priests likely is part of the barrier to building normal adult relationships.

(3) With such a perceived chasm between the "lowly" laity and the "saintly" clergy, as the "cult of clergy" stays unto itself, it is likely too easy for them to get overly puffed up about their importance & value to the "work of God" for the sake of the general population; once they are so puffed up, it is understandable that they might start thinking that if sex or other criminal scandals come 'out of the closet' & into the public eye, then this "infinitely important work of God, ministering to the laity" would be hindered, so it is not too surprising that some of them would (likely for a wide variety of reasons) want to hide such sins from the public eye & the eyes of the criminal justice system.

(4) Perhaps it is something inherent in the abnormal situation of celibacy, perhaps it is more of how our current sexed-up culture (with internet access to just about any sexual perversion) interacts with the situation of celibacy. (I'm not saying that the abnormal situation of celibacy is certainly deviant & not blessed with God's loving grace. Heck, the life of Jesus was surely abnormal -- abnormality is not the same as sick, unhealthy, undesirable, or dangerous.) Nonetheless, the Church (both laity & clergy hierarchy) must admit that there is a widespread illness among priests & Bishops; perhaps this illness is not yet epidemic, and it's surely not yet the universal norm among clergy [God forbid!!], but it is surely a sadly widespread illness over extending over many decades. Regardless of details, faithful of the Church must strive to make quick changes that diminish the likelihood of such sinful crimes, and --moreover-- make quick changes that hope to heal some of the wounds suffered by victims, and --through the disillusioning scandal of it all-- the wounds of those who have aborted the Church in their lives (if you would, "throwing out the baby with the bath water").

What healing changes and preventative measures are plausible? IMO a natural attempt to recover grace for the Church (lay & clergy both), perhaps a natural Penance, figuratively wearing sackcloth & ashes, for these ills within the institutional Church, is to institute a period of 100 years in which women & married people can become priests, Bishops, Cardinals, Pope. After all, it has been the exclusively male society of clerics that has been infected by this rash of cover-up and sexual (uncovering?!) sins & crimes. Perhaps too the clergy hierarchy of the Church should confess its institutional failing over these last 75 years, and in Penance welcome the laity to have a full voice in guiding & shaping & leading the Church over the next century.

Presuming that it would be people of good hearts & wisdom who would take up this enterprise of guiding, shaping & leading, and presuming that it would be people of good hearts & wisdom who would become married or women priests, Bishops, etc., the Church at large should feel confident that, trusting in the strength of God's grace, after the proposed 100 year trial period of married & female clergy, if the general judgement were that the continuing path of grace was to revert to an all-male clergy, and/or revert to an unmarried clergy, the good hearts of people (laity & clergy) would indeed choose reverting to standards for clergy membership more like those of today.

If the current clergy are worried that if they would "open pandora's box" by admitting for a century married and women clergy, those new "members of the club" would be unwilling to relinquish their new-found influence or power -- if this is the worry of the current "club of clergy" then perhaps they should interpret their fears to say that they themselves are probably also trapped by the same temptations of influence and/or power.

I thought that big hat he wears was a sort of electro-antenna that tuned him into everything that was going on?

The nuns I know are happy and fulfilled and speak their minds.

Not for long.

It is not the job of a church to fit into the world.The job of a church is to tell the faithful what is right and wrong. Now if you can't follow the Catholic church teachings on right and wrong then there are many churches in the world some of which seem to vote on their moral codes. Please join the one that fits your view of morality because this one isn't going to change to fit. And if it would you could have it because I would quit.

If it is not the job of the church to fit into the world, which I agree with, what are they doing meddling in politics?

@LoneReb,

You wrote

It is not the job of a church to fit into the world.The job of a church is to tell the faithful what is right and wrong.

In a sense the Church is Jesus' continuing presence on Earth. Do you think that Jesus' life & death was mainly about telling people "This is right. This is wrong. This is right."???

Further, the Church as the Body of Christ is the entire community of disciples/believers/lovers-of-their-neighbors.

Further...

this one [i.e the Catholic Church] isn't going to change to fit. And if it would change you could have it because I would quit.

What?!?! The Church does change! At one time there was no doctrine of infallibility, no doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary Mother of Jesus. At one time there was teaching of limbo; not any more. The list is long long long. So, it sure looks like you are saying that the Church must be what you want it to be, and if you don't get your way, and if the Church changes, then you're going to go off in a huff, or a lack of Faith or whatever, and quit the Church?????????? Perhaps, you want to pray and re-discern this position. You complain about other Christian denominations (or their leaders like Jan Hus [who was against selling 'Indulgences' to fund a crusade, then excommunicated, "tried", & burnt at the stake], Martin Luther, ...) as not having been true to the One True Church, the Catholic Church -- and yet here you are saying that you are all ready to leave the Catholic Church if it changes in any way, or at least in any way that you don't like. Doesn't such a stance severely undermine your credibility and/or integrity? Isn't there a better path?

After the span of you life has expired and the memory of you has evaporated into the cosmos the Church will continue a thousand years from thence. So keep cheering for its demise laughing boy!

No, I suspect that just like the gods of Greek and Roman mythology, the "Church" with transform or evolve into some other organization that can maintain control over large followings of "believers".

freedom, i'd love for you to point out where he says he would like the demise of the church. we are laughing, but not at what you think.

They used to have Three Poppas, now only two, The Orthodox Church is not much better..and the French Pope was sacked.

Rats are safer companions than Priests.

Yes it does.

Quit your bitching and start the Holy Roman Catholic Church of Nuns.

The continued molestation of children--and its total cover-up by the "church" is relevant to every discussion of this "faith" gone amuck. You have no authority to the high ground if you are wallowing in the mud--and continue to do so even when it is pointed out to you again and again. This is not new--read Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. If the Pope actually spoke to God, the Pope would have known the earth revolved around the sun when Galileo mentioned it to the old hypocrite. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Catholic Church was never happier than during the Inquisition--and longs for those days to return. If you want my interpretation of the final vision of Fatima, just ask. All mythology was once someone's religion.

I don't think that the article states that the nuns were teaching against the doctrine of the Church. I believe it says that they were not focusing their work in support of the Bishops' dictates supporting their pro-life stance. Correcting poverty and social injustice don't seem to rank high in the Church's priorities. Perhaps the male leadership of the Church should read the Beatitudes again, and take them to heart.

I think this reprimand of the nuns has an even larger, more discouraging message for women in the Catholic Church. These nuns were essentially told their work was not important, and that they must fall in line with the Bishops and do their work. Catholic women may want to consider this as a statement as to their importance in the Church, and the state of their equality with men.

Zupercam: "Don't bring up priests molesting children thing, it's irrelevant to this article."

I respectfully disagree. The Vatican chastised the nuns for failing to make the "Biblical view of family life and human sexuality" a central plank in its agenda. So pedophile women-hating priests criticize the splinter in the nuns' eyes, while ignoring the plank that's sticking out their own eyes.

Jesus said (never mind Reuters) ...and He rules here! (at least that's what the Church is SUPPOSED to believe)

John: "Catholic women may want to consider this as a statement as to their importance in the Church, and the state of their equality with men"

John, you are correct, Sir! Understatement of the Century! Women are second-class and less-than in Catholic Church--men turning their backs on over 50% of Church's potential "helpers." Idiots!

Jesus would NEVER have done this. In fact, he didn't do it 2,000 years ago and his own apostles complained (e.g. Mary Magdalen and more)..."Organized" religion sucks.

zupercram - After reading the actual letter I think Reuters let the Vatican off easy.

http://www.usccb.org/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=55544

Nancy-2100507

You have no authority to the high ground if you are wallowing in the mud--and continue to do so even when it is pointed out to you again and again.

That's an excellent point, but please read what the Vatican has to say about the sexual abuse of minors with this link:

The Holy See wishes to state at the outset its profound abhorrence for the
crimes of sexual abuse which took place in that Diocese and is sorry and
ashamed for the terrible sufferings which the victims of abuse and their
families have had to endure within the Church of Jesus Christ, a place
where this should never happen.

The Vatican is instituting reforms and protocols to ensure that such occurrences will not repeat. The disconnect between your post and the Church's response is when you state that the Church "continue[s] to do so." Clearly, the Vatican takes this quite seriously and is taking the appropriate steps. In this case at least, the Vatican didn't wait centuries to see that an apology is in order!

If the Pope actually spoke to God

With that, you're just making stuff up. The Church does not teach that the Pope maintains direct communication with God. Palamist mysticism teaches that we can not know God by His essence, but only through His energies.

The Catholic Church was never happier than during the Inquisition

Why would Pope John Paul II apologize for something that he would want to see happen again?

Skup - Here's one quote from your link:

The Holy See acknowledges with gratitude the great contribution of women Religious to the Church in the United States as seen particularly in the many schools, hospitals, and institutions of support for the poor which have been founded and staffed by Religious over the years.

So, the original report, rather than chastise the LCWR for "spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns," instead "acknowledges with gratitude" their works. Thank you for allowing me to substantiate Retuers' misleading reporting.

zupercram - That was nothing more that the platitudes at the beginning of the letter. It also contained this...

Radical Feminism. The Cardinal noted a prevalence of certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith in some of the programs and presentations sponsored by the LCWR, including theological interpretations that risk distorting faith in Jesus and his loving Father who sent his Son for the salvation of the world. Moreover, some commentaries on “patriarchy” distort the way in which Jesus has structured sacramental life in the Church; others even undermine the revealed doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the inspiration of Sacred Scripture.

Skup - I've read and re-read the quote. I don't see anything that suggests that the hierarchy is chastising the LCWR for "spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns."

As I stated in my original post, if the LCWR did in fact push an agenda not aligned with the Catechism, then a reprimand would be in order.

By the way, there is a tiny little provision in the writings of the Church that says (paraphrasing) that one may disagree with the teachings of the Church after much reflection and prayer. However, it also stresses that one may not go public with their disagreement. So, the Church doesn't exactly insist on blind following. This case of the LCWR is a matter of them going public, exacerbated by the fact that they are an organization that represents and is comprised of those who have made religious vows with the Church.

"While there has been a great deal of work on the part of LCWR promoting issues of social justice in harmony with the church's social doctrine, it is silent on the right to life from conception to natural death,

Turns out that whole bit about the Vatican criticizing the nuns for focusing 'too much' on charitable works was a lie.

The Catholic Church was never happier than during the Inquisition

Which inquisition would that be? More Catholics were martyred for their faith during a 30 year period in Britain than all the people put top death during 800 years of the Inquisition in Spain.

Britain was trying to cram a new religion down its citizens throats, and Spain was trying to free itself from the bonds of foreign invaders.

Untrue...we did not Ape the murdering catholic cult, when they sent terrorists from Rome, we sorted them out. The Spanish Inquisition made slaves of women and wife abusers of men, one single complaint from a wife and she was put to the flame.

Please explain to me how the leadership of a faith that by it own proclaimed doctrine does not allow it's clergymen to experience marry or have interpersonal sexual relations (or it's nuns either, of course) and are instead devouted to God and his only son, Jesus Christ --and whose sole task is to continue Jeusus'good works on this earth- can have any insight into matters of marriage, personal sexual relations between two people (no matter the genders of the parties involved) or speak with any knowledge of about the isue reproduction? Going back to a " Book" that was written, re-written and edited many time over for 2,000 year to suit the special interest of the powers of the time can not be your only source for truth. You have every right to your personal beliefs -- but do not impose them on others --or "scorn" them for not doing your bidding.

John I read their statement in full on another site. In regards to PPACA they contradicted the churches stance on contraception. The stance on contraception is a core belief. Contraception is no different than abortion which is no different than murder. Life begins at the moment of conception not some other arbritary date. The nuns in their statement said paying for contraception through insurance was OK. It isn't. It is accesory to murder as if I bought a gun loaded it and handed it to a killer. They as Catholics took a vow to accept the doctrine of the church. The Vatican was right to reprimand them. They can accept that or leave the church.

I agree with you about the Whore of Babylon and with Sam that the Pope is trying to control

our democracy and worse case is that the Pope versus Russia and the West for control of the

New World Order. However, in my opinion, the New World Order as far as the West is

concerned is the Kingdoms coming Under Christ, Revelation 11. Also the War on Women has

escalated now to the Nuns.

The Keys of This Blood" by Malachi Martin about the Pope and The New World Order

Of interest, perhaps, the Numerals on the Pope's Crown represent 6-6-6 I am not saying the

Pope is the Antichrist, just saying his Roman Numerals represent 666 which is spooky

The Catholic Church, like one of my great-uncle's would say to a friend when muscling a store owner long ago, 'It's justa business, goombah.' The 'Church' lost the true meaning of Christ long ago and exchanged a sacred book for a bank book and a lobbyist.

This is an outrage... for doing good works you repriman... How about all those priest having sex with young boys, rapinig them.. and the Vatican hides this .. the pope should be ashamed of himself.. I guess if the church is making money one way or another you are not faithful.. Yea have more kids to give more money to the church while the priest are ruining their childhood....

Fantomdog
Your great uncle wouldn't have lived in Chicago, would he?
Or Cicero?

Hopefully the catholic church is one of those businesses' that closes. They are selfish old men that care only about themselves....

No speak out at Mass and tell them like it is!

Sadly, Peter, I don't think anything would change.

one thing would change, you wouldn't be welcome to attend mass at that church anymore. silencing the dissenters is the religous way.

If you are a Catholic you take as a matter of faith that in matters of faith and morals the pope is infallible. If you don't believe that then you are a member of the wrong church and I would suggest joining the church of England. The service is very similar as are the sacraments. They left in total when the church wouldn't grant an annulment to Henry VIII. I still ran into the same problem in 1971. The church doesn't change. If you are waiting for the Catholic church to change don't hold your breath.

Lonereb...and that is the reason the Church is losing members among American born Catholics left and right...Their own data last year (in the local Catholic newspaper) stated their population was constant, only because of the huge influx of immigrants (both legal and undocumented) coming up from Latin America. American born Catholics ARE leaving the Church. The Church is even starting programs to bring lapse Catholics back into the Church and trying to convert Protestants, all because there is concern. Eventually Americans are going to get tired of the 5,000 year old thinking (and it is 5,000 years old, Jesus was far more modern & progressive in his thinking) and move on, and very little American money will be flowing into Vatican coffers....

lonereb, popes used to marry and have children.
The Mass used to be said in Latin.
The Church has changed in many ways over the years, so saying that the church does not change is false.

lonereb

"If you are a Catholic you take as a matter of faith that in matters of faith and morals the pope is infallible."

So just before he became Pope he was fallible, does that really make any sense to you?

@LoneReb wrote

If you are a Catholic you take as a matter of faith that in matters of faith and morals the pope is infallible. ...The church doesn't change. If you are waiting for the Catholic church to change don't hold your breath.

#16.4 - Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:48 PM EDT

Not accurate Reb! First, the stuff about infallibility on matters of faith & morals -- even present Church canon law states that not every pronouncement of the Pope on matters of faith & morals is infallible; there are issues of the Pope explicitly stating that he is speaking ex cathedra with intent to present an infallible teaching. Besides, for many centuries after the life of Jesus of Nazareth, the Church did not claim infallibility. At one point in Church history, somebody came up with the proposal [a change!! in the Catholic Church??-- God forbid!] that they have some doctrine of limited infallibility.

Of course, there's a logical conundrum here (which I'd bet some have tried to explain away): if the Church didn't have infallibility before this new infallibility proposal was accepted, maybe the decision to accept the infallibility doctrine was fallible & flawed??!

On top of this, there's the issue that the Church holds to the teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas of 800 years ago, that if a person's conscience conflicts with other official teachings of the Church hierarchy, then that person SHOULD follow her/his conscience. (I was surprised when I first learned this.) [Of course, there are details to be concerned with in this teaching, such as is the person being honest with her/himself or just copping out to an irresponsible alternative, and there's the issue of the person being sufficiently informed on the matters.]

Yep still there, you lose!

and still as FOS as ever. they will always be there cause it's the best con mankind has had yet.

So true. Just when I start thinking, "maybe I should go to church this week", the church decides to remind me of how unimportant they consider me.

This Pope Benedict as pope was a mistake. I've thought this from the first moment he was appointed. John Paul the 2nd was taking the Church in a more modern direction. I was born and raised Catholic; left and came back. I didn't come back because of the stellar decisions they make but because every church everywhere has issues. When men and women believe that they personally hear the word of God they are either crazy(crashing into the Twin Towers, drowning your children) or they are selfish and use it to expand their own agenda.

he would say don't associate my name with those people, they are nothing like me.

The Vatican didn't say that. The nuns said that in defense for not spending enough time supporting human life and the sacrament of marriage. It is a reasonable defense, but by putting up a defense that are confirming the Vatican's assertions that they are not appropriately deferential to the Vatican.

I understand there are many Christian churches that don't believe the clergy should defer to higher church leadership, but should decide for themselves what God wants. The Catholic Church is not organized that way. It is a top down organization, where directions theoretically come from God to the church, the priests & religious and the laity.

actually that's exactly what the article says minus the end part.

A prominent U.S. Catholic nuns group said it was "stunned" that the Vatican reprimanded it for spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns and not enough on abortion and gay marriage.

Except that the part about the Vatican saying the nuns spent "too much time on poverty and social justice concerns" is a lie.

The Vatican COMMENDED the nuns for their work combatting poverty and promoting social justice..

The report (written by one Bishop) repriminded them for having views that did not support Catholic teachings regarding respect for life.

That part of the flap is about the Affordable Care Act, and whether certain provisions go far enough in sticking to President Obama's promise that no federal funds will be spent on paying for abortions.

The nuns interpreted the law one way and some (maybe even most) American Bishops interpreted it the opposite way.

I wouldn't ask the question what would Jesus do. Isn't it that time Christians talk about being the last days? Well if there ever is a Anti-Christ (Panzuzu) he'll sit in the Vatican. The answer to you question would be, Jesus and God would burn this world to the ground and destory everyone that didn't turn to them. I mean its in Revalations what he'll do. If you believe the New Testament, or the Bible in general.

The Anti-christ already does sit in the Vatican. Take one look at his face.

Pope Benedict was a mistake to appoint as pope. There is no such thing as spending too much time on poverty and social justice. Relief from poverty and social injustice frees women to make informed decisions about family planning. Pope Benedict just wants to make sure that Catholicism stays rooted in misogyny.

Hey Bro, maybe you want to work in the islamic house, that is totally insane or even the Obama house? don't believe they or he stands for much questioning of deed or purpose, one will die and the other will be fired. The Catholic Church has it's rules for it's employees (Priests and Nuns) defie or speak aganst the bosses at your own risk.

i'd love to work in Obama's house. white house staff get paid well. as for the house of islam, it and catholicism are equally moronic.

So the Inquisition begins again only this time not led by the Jesuits. There is a reason I left the Catholic Church and you just reaffirmed how correct my actions were. These nuns deserve your support for thier efforts not your disdain...not very Christian at all.

Amen!!! It was THE WOMEN!!!!!!

zapper,

It's a bit of a catch 22 for these guys, how do you evolve and innovate a doctrine that would be utterly destroyed by evolution and innovation.

That is why some of us have evolved and innovated our way out of any religious dogma.

JM, as I said, they were "carved in stone." They left out the ability to adapt to new environments. Their loss.

I call JM assumptions wrong. Read the history of the Catholic church they've changed a plenty over the years. Mainly for survival and to aquire more power but they have adapted. The whole problem is the difinition of a Christians which mean Christ-like. You have to choose which is more important Christ-like or your sect of religion. One should alway wonder if you will hear at the gates, "I know him not".

Zapper: if your message is don't kill, and some of the followers start to parse just what constitutes killing. are you suggesting the teaching be altered?

done! & haven't looked back. anyone that can not only accept but participate in their archiac rhetoric while refusing to practice acceptence and love of all people of all faiths is just a sheep. but that's exactly what they want. don't question, just do as i say. that wore out a long time ago for me.

Well, now but wait a minute-- I, too, was raised Catholic and am no longer...but, Catholics supposedly believe in the infallibility of the Pope. If that's the case, then shut up and do what he says. If you don't like it, leave the church. You can't have it both ways, people.

Marla, you must have missed the lesson where it was explained the Pope is only infallible when he is speaking 'ex cathedra' .

Except the Pope covers up and protects child molesters. So his opinion is pretty useless if you ask me.

I was raised and schooled Catholic. My kids will hopefully appreciate that I am not doing the same to them. I'm all for God, but 99.9% of religion is total BS.

people also believe that god is infallible. he made every one of us and that includes rapists and murderers. i'd say that was a mistake.

if god has the will but not the power to stop evil then he is not omnipotent

if he has the power but not the will he is apathetic

if he has both the will and the power then why is there evil?

if he has neither the will nor the power then why call him god?

Marla: "Catholics supposedly believe in the infallibility of the Pope."

Actually, this is not exactly true. The infallibility of the Pope is NOT an everyday, 24/7 thing. It's a bit complicated but you can look up in "Cannon Law" (that's Catholic Church law) and you'll discover the Pope is only infallible when he makes a pronouncement on some aspect of Catholic belief, etc.

Personally, I don't believe it--but you can look it up and you'll discover I'm right (you can read Cannon Law at night as cure for insomnia--hehehe)