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Subscribe to RSSThe Catholic Church accused the nation's largest organization of American nuns of espousing "radical feminist" ideas. MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell discusses the charges with Sister Jeannine Gramick, who was once silenced by the Vatican, and Jeff Stone, communications director of Dignity USA.
A prominent U.S. Catholic nuns group said it was "stunned" that the Vatican reprimanded it for spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns and not enough on abortion and gay marriage.
In a stinging report on Wednesday, the Vatican said the Leadership Conference of Women Religious had been "silent on the right to life" and had failed to make the "Biblical view of family life and human sexuality" a central plank in its agenda. It accused the group of promoting "certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith."
It also reprimanded American nuns for expressing positions on political issues that differed, at times, from views held by American bishops. Public disagreement with the bishops -- "who are the church's authentic teachers of faith and morals" -- is unacceptable, the report said.
The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a "doctrinal assessment" saying the Holy See was compelled to intervene with the Leadership Conference of Women Religious to correct "serious doctrinal problems."
The nuns group, based in Silver Spring, Md., said in a statement Thursday on its website, "The presidency of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious was stunned by the conclusions of the doctrinal assessment." It added it may give a lengthier response at a later date.
The conference says it represents 80 percent of America's 57,000 Catholic nuns. It is influential both in the United States and globally.
Academics who study the church said the Vatican's move was predictable given Pope Benedict's conservative views and efforts by Rome to quell internal dissent and curtail autonomy within its ranks.
"This is more an expression of the Church feeling under siege by trends it cannot control within the Church, much less within the broader society," University of Notre Dame historian Scott Appleby said.
That includes a steady drumbeat of calls to ordain women as priests, which the pope has reasserted was an impossibility.
The Vatican named Seattle Archbishop Peter Sartain and two other U.S. bishops to undertake the reforms of the conference's statutes, programs and its application of liturgical texts, a process it said could take up to five years.
Msnbc.com's James Eng contributed to this report from Reuters.
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At least if you worship Satan, he gives you a lil bit of leeway to explore your desires and lusts without breaking any of the rules, just bending them enough so that you can still say yer a devout Satanist =0p
Indeed he will give you all the leeway that you need to hang yourself just like Judas. He does not care about you. All he cares about is hurting God through you. He is the Prince of Lies and you are his victim.
The church sucks.... enough said
There is a huge difference between faith and religion. I think Robert Preston said it best in the movie "Victor/Victoria"...(don't know where the quote came from)...... "religon is an unhappy emotion invented by pious clery in order to exploit the masses". I may have misquoted it, haven't seen the movie in a while, but it sounds right to me. Religion has ALWAYS been a problem...and always will be. It has always been used to control an agenda...and always will be. Religion....has NOTHING to do with faith. Religion is a business. The catholic church is one of the largest employers on the planet...and one of the richest.
They called him "the Nazi pope" for a reason
Yes, they did. In fact, for the same reason they published this erroneous and misleading article: to stir up anti-Catholic sentiment... an especially important thing for the left-leaning media to do with a presidential election coming up in which the Catholic Church has been causing their favored candidate alot of trouble. Again, I challenge anyone to read the official documents of this case (which are available for free online) and find any reference to the outrageous claims made in this article (i.e. "spending too much time with the poor.") It's as ridiculous as calling the Pope a Nazi.
To commonsense --
You say that the nuns interpreted the law one way and the bishops another way. But there is no law being interpreted. The nuns are just doing what they feel their obligation toward society is. But the Vatican feels that they should not be allowed to determine for themselves what their obligation is; it feels that it should dictate to them what that obligation should be. Once again, the church feels that women should not be allowed to think for themselves and that they should have no voice whatsoever in how the church should function.
the bible is a literary work produced by these same people...the bible is not the literal word of God as they describe it...it is mans interpretation of what God wants....inspired by God?...maybe, but human nature assures us that it is probably a simple series of hand-picked letters that MEN choose to call the bible...God is more than a book....the book is a guide, not a metaphysical reality...
educate yourselves about God through study of everything you can find about it....wide is the path to destruction, narrow is the gate to the kingdom of heaven...this is a perfect example of the mis-use of God as a bludgeon to be used on the people of God....it is wrong on so many levels and when we see it is wrong, THERE is where GOD is...in our hearts and minds....not a book written by men who claim it is the WORD of GOD....Jesus was the word of God and he has been mis-represented for thousands of years now...Men will always lie and deceive others in order to control them and milk them for money and power...
i realize that most will never open their minds to the TRUTH....only follow along as they are told...doubt is not allowed....that is the real problem
God bless these ladies as they do God's REAL work...
Wow. I love how people are so quick to criticize without even doing their research. This article is so full of lies, it's laughable. Has no one else noticed that as the Catholic Church has become vocally oppositional to the Obama administration, the left-leaning media has been reeling out yarn after yarn of organizational character assassination? If anyone here would even bother to do their homework, such as reading the ACTUAL ASSESSMENT, which anyone can do right here: , it becomes obvious just how much of a mountain-from-a-molehill this story is. Nowhere, in any direct source, has the LCWR criticized for "focusing too much on the poor." Get real. People will believe anything. This, my friends, is pure sensationalism designed to rile up anti-Catholic sentiment before the election, and it's painstakingly obvious.
It's shocking to see how much parochial school costs have risen in the last 30 years as the religious orders continue to shrink.
I grew up in a heavily Catholic city (Scranton, Pa), but only one person I knew growing up decided to enter a religious order. Why would a young woman of great faith decide to become a permanent second class citizen? Perhaps if women were able to be ordained priests, perhaps they wouldn't turn away from a life of service. The Catholic hierarchy is the ultimate partiarchy.
Way to go, Catlick Church. Don't just alienate your parishioners, go all out and insult and alienate your old, faithful employees, too.
Incredible that the Vatican reprimanded nuns "for spending too much time on poverty and social justice concerns. . . . " Isn't that the mission of most nuns? How about the Vatican do something about its renegade priests and their time spent on molesting children?
What's incredible is that the Vatican never said any such thing. This is pure libel. Look up the actual Doctrinal Assessment.
This is why the catholic church is losing it's death grip on it's follwers!!! I am proud to say I am an EX catholic...how dare you speak to these women this way?? Why don't you use this pulpit to condem the hoardes of perverts and child molesters you hid in your churches??? Disgusting!
I cant stand the catholic church(and religion in general). They really are a dispicable and immoral institution of hustlers and sharks.
They protect, harbor, and defend pedophiles
They help keep AIDS going strong as they promote their horsesh*t about the "evils" of condoms in poor countries like Africa.
Their anticondom/birth control agenda assures that the poor keep having more and more and more kids, adding to the family's overall suffering and poverty, They are in no way a friend of the poor.
Finaly, they are dangerous to a democratic institution as they seek to force the Christian version of Sharia Law down our collective throats through their political involvement.
We need to stop tolerating this religious intrusion into our politics and in turn our live.
Why don't you do a bit of research? The fact of the matter is that those places where the Catholic Church has the strongest influence in Africa have the LOWEST infection rates of AIDS in the entire continent. Are you familiar with the concept of NFP? Probably not.
And comparing Catholic morality to Sharia Law is just downright silly. Really. The fact of the matter is, in any system of law, someone's system of morality is being legislated. In a democratic society, if the majority of those people should agree with a religious perspective, well... them's the breaks. But, of course, secularism is clearly the way to go. After all, it's had such a great track record in Europe.
lol....Whatever fits your delusion
Wow Doug -- you are only a step away from Hitler Mentality. Why don't you just say slaughter the Catholic Cattle. I believe that you are the delusional one.
gay people are certainly nicer than this pope ... i am christian but not roman catolic or catolic and when the last pope died my family was so sad becaus ehe was very nice, happy and very condesending instead of reprimending people he would teach and taught as sof as he could so he would not offend people.... but this pope is german cold and creepy.
The shriveled up old men who run the Catholic Church are not smart enough to know where their own self-interest lies. The nuns do a lot of the day-to-day heavy lifting, and for the most part haven't damaged the Church's reputation the way the male clergy and hierarchy have . Most people I know have a pretty good opinion of the nuns, and the Church can use all the good press they can get. What a STUPID move! The nuns better start their own church if they don't want a bunch of idiots telling them what to do. As far as I can tell the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has put the perpetuation and promotion of the institution ahead of genuine Christian principles for its entire existence. Religious liberation feels wonderful. More people should try it.
how about ''the shriveled up old men that run the world''? you ladies outnumber them 7-1 why dont you do something about it? Everyones waiting for you to move, they are only going to follow you.
Wasn't Sinead O'Connor not only an ordained priest but a lesbian as well while serving....or was that Lindsey Hohan???
I think that was a dream you had...
Catholic women cannot be ordained as priests. Sorry. LOL
Probably was after that Saturday Nite Live performance where she ripped the pope's pic in half.....
Again men are making the rules for women to follow. I admire the nuns who appear to want some right to make their own decisions. Maybe the Pope after listening to some of the rhetoric of the Republican primary here in the US felt he could make this sort of ruling and not get the negative fallout which will occur. ( I hope and pry that there is a very strong response.
The Catholic Church is not a democratic institution. The rules are set. Not even the Pope can change them. And, as I've noted in several replies, the actual Doctrinal Assessment said nothing about spending too much effort on the poor, etc. That's a complete fabrication. What kind of strong response are you hoping for?
The Church is an institution that teaches a very specific doctrine. If some of its representative members veer away from that doctrine, the hierarchy has every right to address it. What is with all this frenzy?
I am not sure why they stay in the good old boys club
Cardinal John Ratzinger was trying to drag the Catholic Church back into the 1950's for decades. Is it any wonder that he's trying to do the same as Pope?
More proof of how ignorant and clueless the Vatican is. Abortion and gay marriage are things protected by government laws here. Outside of voting, how are nuns suppose to stop this? As members of a religious group protected by tax-exempt status...they cannot outwardly get involved in supporting or denouncing politicans (just like the Bishop vs Obama saga from yesterday). They can preach all they want to their congregations that all know the Church's stance on both anyway. So exactly what does the Vatican think these nuns should be doing...hanging out in front of abortion clinics trying to get non-Catholic women to stop getting abortions? Again, the problem with organized religion is they inevitably always want political power. Does the Vatican really think Catholics in this modern country with FREEDOM to think for themselves are following their inane doctrines to the letter? Why don't they start with no premarital sex first? That would certainly stop Catholics from getting an abortion. How these guys can say anything to women that have dedicated their lives to teaching in Catholic schools and donating endless hours to helping the poor and sick while at the same time they've all either molested little boys or helped cover up the molestation of little boys is BEYOND HYPOCRITICAL!
I'd like to add a comment for the non-Catholics who may not know this. Nuns do not receive salaries, they live in groups and work until they die. They have taken a vow of poverty and charity and devote their lives to serving God and others. Priests, on the other hand, receive a salary, are allowed to accumulate savings, live in a house and have housekeepers, they have retirement plans, take vacations and are allowed to retire.
I have not read one single story where it was nuns sexually abusing children so I must ask the following questions: Which one of these two groups is truly serving God? Which one of these groups deserves our support and respect?
Very well said.....The catholic church has become a joke and totally irrelevant. End of discussion.
Priests that enter certain orders such as the Benedictines or Franciscans also take vows of poverty. Your typical parish priest does not.
to be worried and care for the poor is not a feminist ideal is reality and at least these nuns do something unlike him who sits in a "gold" chair like a saint... sorry to be so rude but he doesn't really know about poverty if he doesn't wan to be around or help the poor.... leave the gay alone they are fine don't be a jerk is their choice and their lives unlike the poor and needy is not their choice to be born into poverty .
Its way past time for the Catholic Church to enter the 21st century. I hope the nuns told Pope Benedict to stuff it. We are in austere times and the government is looking to limit and possibly even end aid to the poor. That will make the role or charitable organizations even more important. And the last time I looked, the church was supposed to be a charitable organization, not a for profit organization. It has always amazed me that the Catholic Church chose a former Nazi Brown shirt as their spiritual leader.
I am reminded of the work of Mother Teresa (Yes - I know she was not an American nun) - her work with the poor and the ailing was an inspiration for many girls - who later became nuns in countries across the word. I wonder what work she would have been "allowed" to engaged in with this Pope in charge - even though her calling came from God.
This sounds suspiciously like a marriage but without sexual intercourse =0p
What a joke, nobody did anything about the priests molesting chlildren, except transferring them on to other
parishes. The Vatican is way behind the times adn should shape up or shut
up!!!
i know right? what the heck so many priest or whatever they called abused childrens every year and we don't even know........... and still they walk around like they are saints... they should be hang for ruining innocent kids lives.!!!