I suppose you mean to point out that there won't be. But of course, there haven't been any riots of any kind in the US in a few decades. I think you need to spend some time in Europe or Asia, and then come back to the states and make comments about rioting.

Great job "liberalizing" reality yet again MSNBC.

The details of the crime show that not only should he still be executed he should have been charged with a hate crime from the beginning. Too bad the taxpayers will have to spend $50,000 a year to keep this scum alive.

"Robinson and co-defendant Roderick Williams Jr. were convicted of murdering 17-year-old Erik Tornblom after the teen gave his killers a ride from a Fayetteville convenience store. Tornblom was forced to drive to a field, where he was shot with a sawed-off shotgun."

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-race-played-role-nc-death-penalty-case-152140015.html

A 17 yr-old kid gives you and your friend a ride, and you repay the act by executing him with a sawed-off shotgun in a field. It doesn't get much lower than that.

Yup, more MS- BS "news"

And for Sally in Chicago below, a jury of your peers means a cross section of all people, not just your "race."

The jury that sent him to death row him had nine whites, two blacks and one American Indian.

I would say that the above group of people is pretty representative of his "peers" or any other American.

University of Chicago Student, exactly what is going on down there in Hyde Park? Are you reading at all? No riots in the US in a few decades? I hope you aren't a history student. Yet I fear you must be too young to remember the name Rodney King? But setting that instance aside (1991), possibly the worst in our history and only a little over 20 years ago, there have been many instances since. Sadly we do not seem to be able to go more than about 5 years without a note-worthy instance of rioting - and most of the instances stem from racial, ethnic or other prejudicial tensions.

Catch up - and if necessary tell your friends. We need the students in our finest institutions to be well-informed by whatever means, that is if it's not coming with the coursework:

Nobody is arguing the severity of the crime. The fact is, it is a violation of court rules to exclude potential jurors on the basis of their race. If one side wants to exclude a black juror, it must give a race-neutral reason why they are being excluded. Apparently, these prosecutors are excluding black jurors solely on the basis of race.

They can't do that in America. From the article:

"It was later shown that prosecutors removed 50 percent of all qualified black jurors from serving on his jury, but removed only 14.8 percent of all other jurors."

Hmm....OJ's jury was 9 black, 2 white and 1 hispanic.....

I suppose you mean to point out that there won't be. But of course, there haven't been any riots of any kind in the US in a few decades. I think you need to spend some time in Europe or Asia, and then come back to the states and make comments about rioting.

You know life started before you got to college right?

You must have been watching pokemon when the Rodney King riots happened.

You have to know by now that OJ got let off for murder because LA would have burned to the ground.

You had to have been old enough to have watched what happened after Katrina, technically not riots only because the smart people evacuated, but still mass looting. Oh, none of which happened in Ohio in the same flood condidtions.

Im sure youve seen caps from OWS Oakland, you must have since thats a college kid thing.

So yes, actually his joke wasnt that far beyond realistic sarcasm.

Clotho, was it ok to exclude jurors that werent liberal enough in the casey anthony trial? Im not seeing the difference.

You have to know by now that OJ got let off for murder because LA would have burned to the ground.

O.J "got let off for murder" as revenge for Rodney King. Several of the jurors stated that to the press after the trial. It wasn't thrown out by the judge or an appeals court. There was no secret conspiracy. The LAPD ticked off the black community of LA and they returned the favor by letting O.J. go. Look it up.

Also, being liberal is not a race. There's no legal distinction between liberals and conservatives in court rules. You can look that up, too.

OJ got the jury he needed, which acquitted him because they new LA was toast if that didnt happen, it wasnt a conspiracy, it was because he isnt a mass murderer but mass murder would have been the out-come of a guilty verdict.

Good job figuring out that liberal isnt a race, it is however the mind-set of a 10year old, so maybe they could use age discrimination.

Iam so sick of the racial injustice against whites in America. Truly makes me sick! Hate crimes commited by blacks against whites and other races abounds and they are let off the hook time and time again. What can we do?

Maybe its because he looks like the son that the judge never had. What hogwash!!! Both the prosecution and the defense are limited to the number of challenges they have, the defense must have excused a few qualified blacks too. So now, every minority in prison is going to scream racism!

This sounds like a bunch of crap. The makeup of the jury sounds like it was pretty reflective of the population of the area. There were two blacks on the jury who also voted to execute this piece of @!$%#. I could understand this la being used in cases where it was an all white jury, but when minorities are represented in a number approximately equal to their percentage in the general population of the area, I do not see how they can say that racism was involved in the verdict. Any one of the minority members of the jury could have stopped this person from being executed if they did not think the crime warranted it.

.

Looks like another blow to racism. Death to racism!!!

If theres "racial injustice" against white people... you know the people who expanded the United States under the doctrine of "Manifest Destiny" using a Constitution that regarded a whole population of people (native peoples) as too primative to protest the land being stolen from their ancestors in court, and which considered another group of people as property and only 3/5ths a human so Southern states didn't get more tax revenue than the Northern ones, and barely allowed women to own property until well into the 1950s-60s...

Well if there's rampant "racial injustice" against these quintesentially American Americans then yall guys really need to look deep inside your hearts and figure out how you got such the short end of the same racial stick you've been using for years to beat everyone else down. Maybe your ancestors shouldn't have been such dicks to literally every other social group out there from blacks, native Americans, Latinos and Asians to all those groups of Europeans (Italians, Irish, Polish, Eastern Europeans, Jews, etc) you considered lower than "the true white people" for centuries until you stole enough technology from the Chinese and the Ottoman Empire to start imposing your concept of equality (by the "Christian" sword and missionary bible-thumper) on the rest of the world.

Afterall, you guys did MAKE the American ruleset. Its just sad to hear you guys complaining about how hard you have it in a country of your own making. Thats like Newt Gingrich bitching about Obama being "the most successful Food Stamp president" - a program he had supposedly reformed as House Speaker. I hear you crying, but somehow I'm hardly sympathetic on how you spin your condition now remembering you guys back then.

so, now...if there aren't enough blacks on a jury to nullify a verdict - that is a violation of a criminal's rights?

I guess the OJ trial didn't teach us anything, after all

I guess Univ. of Chicago Student conveniently forgot the riots in Oakland with the OWS knuckleheads....

The problem was that too many do-gooders started the reform BS and allowed the country to become tainted by liberal policies that have weakened the power of white rule. sic. It's the damn hippies and social activists that ruined this country with their caring towards the impoverished and respecting all people. Damn socialists. (Sarcasm folks).

Stealing other people's hard earned money is not "respecting all people"

Good job figuring out that liberal isnt a race, it is however the mind-set of a 10year old, so maybe they could use age discrimination.

Trudat,

It is interesting how you would attack someone else's maturity level when your ignorant statement is the equivalent of a child sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "la la la la la". If you are incapable of even considering an opposing opinion due to your blanket generalization of liberals then you do not have the position (or the brainpower) to consider yourself fully informed.

Reading a summary of his ruling from the bench, Weeks said that "race was a materially, practically and statistically significant factor in the decision to exercise peremptory challenges during jury selection by prosecutors" at the time of Robinson's trial. The judge added that the disparity was strong enough "as to support an inference of intentional discrimination."

What are the limitations of this Racial Justice Act? If the justification for changing the sentence occurred during jury selection, then couldn't a defense attorney technically argue that the entire verdict was also based on racial bias? What is the point of commuting the sentence when the entire trial process was potentially tainted by the jury selection?? I see this potentially opening the door for a lot of unnecessary appeals. It doesn't take a genius to know that each side is going to try to select jurors that they feel will empathize with their case. They don't care what the motivation of the juror is as long as it benefits them, so of course race is going to be a factor!!! If anything these arguments should be used in the appeals process by convicts who claim they had inadequate representation!!!

Based on the article, this Act just reads as a pointless piece of legislation. If one portion of due process is affected by the people who choose the decision makers, then ALL of it is!

If that had been 2 white/hispanic/native/orientals-killing a black in especially such a brutal way, Ol Al and Jesse would have been calling for "justice". The most racist people that I have ever met in 61 years have been black. I was raised to be tolerant of others, but in the past decade I have had it up to here with all of this racist crap!

By the way I am half white and half native. So don't even go there!

@Iman49

"Do you jackasses commenting on hate crimes against white people live in the REAL WORLD? If a black male even looks near a white person, must less harm them, they are going to jail for a long time. THAT IS A FACT IN AMERIKKKA."

Haha. Iman49, do you live in the REAL WORLD?

I live in a multiracial city (almost evenly distributed, 20% each group) in Texas. I've lived in the south for almost my entire life. I've lived in cities where whites are the overwhelming majority, and cities where they were the minority. I'm also Mestizo, not white.

I understand your position, you're a largely uneducated deeply anti-American child whose hatred for the US makes it difficult to even see what's wrong with what you're saying. But do you at least know/understand what the word "fact" means, right? It has pretty strong meaning to it: An indisputable truth.

I'm not sure what the "REAL WORLD" happens to be in your case (probably a fictional world that you've manufactured from your views of "AMERIKKKA" and considered reality), but it is not even remotely common for ANYONE (regardless of race) to go to jail for merely staring at another person in the US.

I can't understand for the life of me why folks think Jesse and Al are racist. So you mean to tell me that a black standing up for rights is racist. This is what racist means to me, get ready, white man goes to another country, steals people, separates the men from women so women are weak, keep them from reading so they can't learn the language and use it to overthrow the ruler, the beat the man, break his feet if he tries to run and sells off the children with the mother there watching and crying...let's not even talk about lynching and mangling black men and boys.....then theres the post slavery jim crow era, fast forward to the 60s and the killing of MLK (that was just 40 years ago!!). Finally, someone who speaks up for a people because of a "history of injustice" agains said people are racist. These so called "black racists" just don't want history to ever never never ever repeat itself - and trust me it never will to that extent. But don't think for one second there aren't still some folks out there who lived through jim crow & the 60s who don't feel the exact same way as the slave master did! I wish all peoples would just get along but those with jim crow mentality won't let it go!

Fedup29, That without a doubt is the biggest lie ever told, and you know it. The jails are full of blacks and a lot of them are innocent. We all know blacks are guilty, until proven innocent and then we say, oh so, what the hell, just maybe some got away the last time. What other race are you referring, to, besides white?? Please, you best check out the Hispanic population, black do not mess with them. Other Nationals hold their own against any one, and all America knows this. I have not read any where that a black has gotten off, now I have whites; but that's because our jurors are mostly whites. I find it intersting that an all white jury can impartially judge a black man but an all black jury can not judge whites. Why not? If a crime is committed against a race, and it is proven, let the other race decide the fate. There has been far to many old court crimes coming up now about Civil Rights, that should have been dealt with years ago. The thing to do now is to play it fair, and let all races regardless of color get their just deserves. If things are done right and legal no race will have a leg to stand on, and no race can holler racism. Whites holler when their interest is not served, blacks holler when theirs isn't served, so HELL, do it right and we don't have to give a DAMN who hollers. Now let's get it right and stop all this $hit about color;, in the eyes of God, we are all equal, no color is any more important than the other. Why can I say this with sincereity??? Check for yourself, all people are formed the same, a face, body and organs. Skin color varies, hair, eyes, and built. We all walk up right, we all eat food to live, we all dead and must be buried, some of us no matter the color of skin are super smart, some damn fools, and other just get to hang around. God is great, and had one race been superior to another, it would never die and just ascend in to Heaven when ever it wished . I would really have liked that, but I have to take my lumps with everyone else, and so do the rest of you. Fedup29, please post where articles of blacks getting off time and time again can be found, I'm a law student and I can use that information on a term paper...

It seems the messaging system is down, so all I and do for "Also from Chicago" is say: it looks like you need to look up the definition of "decade". I was aware, and I was accurate, and the people who worry about rioting are still absurd and whining.

So its OK to murder WHITE 17 yr old boys?

FedupwithFed

So its OK to murder WHITE 17 yr old boys?

Of course not, the sentence is life without parole in this case. But it's NOT ok to disproportionately sentence Black males to the death penalty or remove Blacks from jury selection because of systemic racism either.

You know, it's really getting to be fun watching the right wing racists on these posts squealing in fear as they watch their assumed privileges get taken away and replaced by actual justice. I hope I live anther 20 years just so I can witness Whites become the minority in the US. I'll probably celebrate the day singing a Dylan song..."How does it feel?...."

culheath,

I'll be singing with you........"to be on your own, like a rollin' stone!"

O.J "got let off for murder" as revenge for Rodney King. Several of the jurors stated that to the press after the trial. It wasn't thrown out by the judge or an appeals court.

OJ got off in 1995 because the L.A. police and prosecutor's office did a damn sloppy job of investigating and presenting their case. Contaminated evidence, doubtful cause for conducting a warrantless search and seizure, and worst of all, Mark Furman, who was caught in an outright lie regarding his past comments on race.

I'm white. I certainly believe O.J. did it. But had I been on the jury, I'd have had to vote for acquittal too, because the Prosecutors just did not prove their case, and to paraphrase Johnny Cochran, "If the case is sh*t, you must acquit.".

Regarding this case, I do not like either the law or the underlying process of having the jury sentence the convicted criminal. For 200-plus years in this country, it has been the province of the Judge, by virtue of his [or her] legal experience and perspective, to issue a sentence in all cases. The jury was only charged with determining guilt or innocence.

When did this change, and why?

I'm against the death penalty, but only because I do not trust our legal system [or any other legal system] to use it in a fair and equitable manner. But there are certainly criminals who deserve death for their crimes, and this man is without a doubt one of them.

1. People don't have the balls to riot these days like back in the day.

2. If two white guys took a black kid out in a field and blasted him with a sawed off shotgun, not only would they be charged with murder, but with a hate crime as well. We don't see this happening when it's the other way around. Why is that?

3. Whites today have no control over what happened 200 years ago, 100 rears ago or even 50 years ago hence should not be held responsible for it PLUS those who were affected by those actions back then are either long dead or in a nursing home so that whole argument is invalid and it sickens me every time I hear it.

Racism will become a thing of the past... once everyone from every side stops being racist.

If you ever been involved in a jury selection process, they must show "Voir dire" and whose opinion matters in the fitness of the potential jury. There is no law that states that the prosecution must have a racial or gender make up that agrees with the defendant. The defense has their own Voir dire they get to perform to choose who they would like on the jury. Each side are allowed only a few strikes when choosing a juror. Making the prosecution follow racial or gender regulation would end Voir dire when choosing a jury.

Sally,

Nowhere is a "jury of peers" in our laws. The Constitution does state an "impartial" jury.

A handy site: http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html

What is NOT in the Constitution.

Sally in Chicago, a jury of your peers means a cross section of all people, not just your "race."

The jury that sent him to death row him had nine whites, two blacks and one American Indian.

I would say that the above group of people is pretty representative of his "peers" or any other American.

This ruling will be of great benefit to blacks because they commit far more violent crimes against whites than whites commit against blacks. That said, political correctness demands that we only hear about the miniscule number of crimes whites commit against blacks. Now, blacks can murder white people then claim prejudice to avoid the death penalty.

Right, and look what a bang up job 11 blacks and 1 white woman did in the OJ Simpson trail.

Right, and look what a bang up job 11 blacks and 1 white woman did in the OJ Simpson trial?

Exactly, Willy... the race card is now a card one can play to be spared from Death itself. The agenda to make being White in America a crime only continues to worsen. I'm sure these "Liberal Arts" PC hokies in college will be singing a different tune when they get out in the world, only to find that they've helped create a society where being Black makes you impervious to the death penalty, lessens your sentence when you commit a crime (even letting some walk free), AND make it so they can get any job they want, no matter their actual training.

I'm all for racial equality... but let's face it, no race wants actual equality. They want all the power themselves, and anyone who agrees a murderer shouldn't die for killing someone in cold blood just because he's black should look in the mirror and face the fact they embody that in every way.

Sarah..........just go out and get a job.You have way to much time on your hands and hopefully birth control is in use for all the men your dating. Pro-creation of bottom feeders is not healthy for the planet.

Sarah, get off your soap box. The main reason killing someone costs so much is because of id10ts like you. Bullets are cheap and a noose is reusable.

Levitcus, Exodus, Matthew, etc. all also talk of an eye for an eye, foot for at foot, burn for a burn.... What do you think that means????

Also, there's still no question as to this guy's guilt, correct? If so, how was there racism involved? He ended some kid's life. Also, more WHITE people have been put to death than blacks even though blacks commit more violent crimes....

This just means that more animals will be on the prowl. Others will take care of them and either they will be caged or meet their maker sooner or later.

The jury that sent him to death row him had nine whites, two blacks and one American Indian.

I would say that the above group of people is pretty representative of his "peers" or any other American.

I actually thought that same thing - the article makes it seem as if there were only white jurors but, come to find out, that's just not the case!

Besides, if a certain ethnic group is a MINORITY, doesn't it only stand to reason that there will be fewer individuals of that ethnicity, when you have a general mix of citizens?

And, of course, each side is allowed to strike a certain number of potential jurors... so, the defense had their say in the selection, as well.

I do want trials to be fair. But, that's just it, I want them to be fair... not favoring one side or the other. I guess we will all have to wait to see exactly how fair this turns out to be over the long run.

Sarah - When one of these animals kills one of your family members or grabs your child, will you still have the same opinion. The only thing to do with a rabid animal is put them under the ground, tax payers will have to support this POS for the next forty years. Maybe you'd like them to live in your home with your family so YOU can pay for them. Sarah, there is no question of this person's guilt. HE DID KILL THE TEENAGER!!!

That was ridiculously long. Why do the "politically correct" or libs always call everyone that doesn't have the same opinion as them ignorant, uneducated, bigoted?

I expected someone would state that the post was long, however, given the subject matter, it is hardly ridiculous. If you read the post, you have your answer to your own question. This was an in-depth study regarding the injustice black people face within the overwhelmingly lily-white "just us" system. This is not the comic books you probably enjoy more.

Sandi... It's called a link. See that little "chain" link on the button bar? It works wonders, especially to lengthy articles that don't copy paste very well, like what you posted. It also allows those who desire to read it to do so and those without patience to just keep on going.

How many white jurors were struck by the defense?

What percentage of the juror pool is white/ black?

This study is racially biased.

Nice to see a judge doing the right thing; I'm sure most people wouldn't. Let's see some more of this.

Honestly, if you had a valid point no one would know. These threads are good for providing information, however, if it reads like a law journal, it loses its interest. Whatever information you were trying to share, this was not the way to do it. A link would have been much better. OR a summary.

Sally in Chicago, you have a problem! Mainly, be so kind and research before you write stuff here that stinks.

Sorry facebook friends for about what I'm gonna say but it sucks. The judges decision is bull@!$%# and he should have to pay for the rest of his stay in prison. So many people like this that have been convicted by a jury of they're peers seem to get off or get their execution overturned. Now we the taxpayers and especially the people of North Carolina have to pay for his sorry existance and serves no purpose to society. The laws of this country aren't to protect us but sorry ass people like this.

Anyone who commits crimes ought to pay for their crimes with penalties that are fair and which reflect the serverity of their crimes.

Thank you for the information provided, but it can hardly be surprising for anyone who has lived in this country for more than a month. America is a deeply corrupt and corrupting society from its very beginnings and the passage of time has demonstarbly not improved the practice of the simply concept of fairness. And there is nothing in America's history that suggest anything will change, for the better, in the dispensing of justice.

The Zimmerman case has already shown that race is a powerful determiner as to what happens when the victim of crime is black and the perpetrator is white. I know of no country, including Somalia, that a murder is committed and the murderer admitted to his crime and the police decided, on the spot, that the confessed mureder is not guilty of what he has confessed to. And even more, that a major segment of the American society, immediately, agrees with the police that no crime was committed.

For a country that speaks so much about fairness and its adherence to christian principles, America is a nightmare, especially for teenage, black boys and for their parents.

Darren Laniervia Facebook

The judges decision is bull@!$%# and he should have to pay for the rest of his stay in prison. So many people like this that have been convicted by a jury of they're peers seem to get off or get their execution overturned.

Darren did you ever stop and think that if they "get off" they are NOT GUILTY? That just might be why their executions get overturned.

Now we the taxpayers and especially the people of North Carolina have to pay for his sorry existance and serves no purpose to society. The laws of this country aren't to protect us but sorry ass people like this.

The laws are supposed to protect EVERYONE even those accused or found guilty of crime.

AllanL

Anyone who commits crimes ought to pay for their crimes with penalties that are fair and which reflect the serverity of their crimes.

With you up to that point. The zimmerman thread is elsewhere. Here you are bemoaning how you feel the law is unfair and yet you are whining because another case isn't going YOUR way.

Naturally, the one salient point that the article ignores is that, in North Carolina, the law requires a UNANIMOUS verdict.

So, the two African-American jurors voted FOR conviction AND for the death penalty.

Trial records, including jury selection, are public record. I have to wonder why the author of the article didn't include the REASONS why certain potential jurors were not selected.

Just using a statistic to overturn a jury verdict without any context is a miscarriage of justice. This law should be, at the very least, rewritten to require PROOF of bias rather than just an accusation of bias.

Oh, and BTW, the article also neglected to mention that the judge that issued this ruling is also African-American.

A couple of points:

1) Voir dire is the process of determining whether juties or expert witnesses have the ability to be objectively accurate and subjectively honest. The idea of racial bias is only one aspect. It could be literacy in a copyright case.

2) Law does not have to be in the Constitution or even written down in order to be a law and to be Constitutional. In fact, much of our body of law goes back to the Magna Carta and English Common Law. ECL is not written down in a single place, but the Magna Carta is the foundation of our law and ECL is the specifics that put it into practice.

3) The claim that somehow ECL or the court system seeks to make Blacks impervious to the death penalty is just a form of racism in itself. Blacks are treated about 8 times as harshly as whites by out "justice" system. But that jumps to 15 times as harshly in capital cases and a huge 105 times in death penalty cases.

4) But the most stunning statistic is that somewhere between 15 and 30% of all Blacks on death row are innocent of the crime for which they are to be executed. The rate for whites is less than 5%.

5) Some states, like Texas and Alasks dealt with the high rate of innocent men being executed by making laws that forbid any new or exculpatory evidence to be admitted during appeals. So scores of people have been executed in just those two states alone when there was the possibility that DNA evidence, which was not admissable when they were convicted, would have proved their innocence. Other states, like North Carolina enacted laws that force the death penalty to be abandoned when obvious racial factors are involved. Still other states abolished the death penalty.

I am in favor of the death penalty. I believe that society has the collective right to ask for an eye for an eye. But I do not favor the execution of children and the mentally incompetent. The problem is that I also do not favor the execution of the innocent or the execution of people because of the color of their skin. Given the high number of innocent people being freed, especially from death rows, I favor suspending the death penalty completely until such time as it can be guaranteed, with a reasonable certainty, that no innocent person is executed and that no person is executed because of their race, religion, etc.

And death row is just the tip of the ice berg. The United States has far more people imprisoned than the rest of the world with the harshest penalties of any country. In the death penalty, the US places #2 behind China (but China's overall rate of imprisonment is lower and its sentences usually less harh.) The US imprisons more people that Stalin of Mao ever dreamed of. And the penalties are disproportionately racist in character. If you simply held Blacks to the same standards as whites, about half our inmate population would be freed. A good example is "crack" cocaine penalties. There is no difference between regular powdered cocaine and unpowdered crack cocaine except the powder was favored by whites and chunks favored by Blacks. But that was sufficient difference to make crack cocain penalties 6 times as harsh as for the same amount of powder cocaine. That's how racism fills our prison system.

And last year, the tipping point was reached. Over half the inmates are now in for-profit prisons.

Prosecutors said Friday they planned to appeal Weeks' decision.

Good. Let's hope they do. And while they're at it, they can get this stupid political-correctness law repealed as well.

Only two comments,1. there is no denying he is guilty of killing someone, just what sentence because of jury make-up, he should be hanged in public within 48 hrs with those in juvenile detention forced to watch to see what they are headed for. This would eliminate the high cost of execution I will donate the brand new rpe, also eliminates the cost of houseing someone that has proven they cannot live or be trusted in society.

2. For those who say it is not a deterent, it deters him from ever murdering someone again if nothing else! look at how worried people get when a convicted murderer escapes from jail. There are cases of them murdering again when released or escaping so it would deter another murder from hapening by executing them.

@trust_verify,

Are you white? the reason I ask is because in my 50+ years on the planet, it seems to me that white people LOVE to tell other people what to do and how to do it. I just bet that you were feeling all sanctimonious, smug and self-satisfied with your post, 2.18. Here's a clue, I can post WHAT I want, in any WAY I want as long as it is appropriate and in accordance with the rules. I am VERY well aware of how to include a link to an article. OBVIOUSLY, I did not want to do that. My choice, my right. Go stick your nose somewhere where it belongs, which BTW, is NOT in my business. Trust and verify THAT! Bet you are not feeling so smug at this very moment, are you? Uh-hunh, that's what I thought! This goes for your 5 "co-signers" as well. Was there someone pointing a gun at your head, making you read my post?

@Realistic woman,

Ummm, see above! I can probably make a guess as to why the subject matter would not hold your interest. Shall I summarize? OK!! Just for you.

Summation: Black people have been sold, lynched, spat on and shat on, been accused of killing Peter(?) Stuart"s wife up in Boston and kidnapping and killing Susan Smith's kids in South Carolina, had a toilet plunger handle shoved up the rear by cops in New York and been shot 41 times, again by the cops in New York, for being black and holding a wallet. Do you know how many blacks have been released from prisons and death rows because of DNA results? I do. Now, when we have the nerve to say that the "just us" system is effing us left, right, front and back, it's just all too much for white people to handle. Well, I guess you all had better "man up" then because this is just the beginning.

Then again, you probably will not read this because it's too long.

@sandie644591

Are you black? In my over 30 years on this planet, I've discovered all races and creeds have their fair share of people who "love to tell other people what to do and how to do it". I'm sure you were feeling "all sanctimonious, smug, and self-satisfied" after your post. Your hypocrisy and racism are showing. Why don't you acknowledge that there are plenty of white people and other races that have been wrongly accused and convicted? Why don't you acknowledge that white people have been released from prison because of DNA results? There are plenty of instances of whites, Asians, and Hispanics being the victims at blacks hands or being accused of doing something a black person did. Everything you say that has been done to black people has also been done to every other color, creed, gender, and sexual orientation. Me? I'm for justice for everyone. Not just people that look like me.

maybe there are more blacks in prison because there are more blacks commiting crimes? * we should fix why that is , its not cause they are black but poor * Are you sure its all racism from the cops and prosecuters and victims? And crack cocaine was a bigger crime cause it was the bigger problem, stupid yea, and im glad they reversed it and made both drugs the same crime. for profit prisons should be against the law, nobody should make a single copper penny off the judicial system, othere than payrole i guess i ment a profit.

LISTEN UP ALL USE LIBBIES — blacks = 12.5% of our population ,sooooo , put 12.5% of them on all juries !!! Problem solved !!!! Just try and find a black that is against the LIBERAL policy of RACIAL JUSTICE ! I predict this law will be overturned and because it arbitrarily decides that RACISM was in the hearts of prosecutors, when everyone knows blacks use JURY NULLIFICATION TO FIX THE OUTCOME OF TRIALS ALL THE TIME !! Truth !

@smithkov,

Yes I am black, and proudly so! As for your statement "There are plenty of instances of whites, Asians, and Hispanics being the victims at blacks hands or being accused of doing something a black person did. Everything you say that has been done to black people has also been done to every other color, creed, gender, and sexual orientation." Yes, other races have been the victim of crimes by blacks, I never said otherwise. But I would like some examples of blacks accusing other races for their crimes, as you stated, you know, the reverse of what occurred in the Stuart and Smith cases, among others. Whadya got? As for the rest of your post, I have taken up the cause for black people who cannot and will not get a fair shake in the "just us" system. If you want to do the same for any other race(s), well, go right ahead, who's stopping you? I think YOUR racism and hypocrisy and a few other things are showing. But, then again, I would expect nothing else.

Black people have accused whites of crimes such as the two I can think of right now where Rev Al Sharpton and the black community accusing white men of raping a black teenager and it was all over the place before she said that she lied. Then there was the case he made famous of The Duke University athletes accused by a shady lady of color of raping her before it was proven not to be true. The most recent was the Trayvon Martin case where it was hyped all over that a white man killed a black teenager before they found out that Zimmerman was hispanic. What about justice when the new black panthers have a $10,000 bounty on Mr Zimmerman dead or alive. Where is the justice or jury there. I am thinking that when all the facts come out, Mr Zimmerman will be found to be innocent because of self defense. However, black people seem to want him executed without a trial. How fair was the O.J. trial. Black people were dancing in the streets because he got by with murdering two white people. Our own president has shot off his mouth before finding out the facts when it came to color. WHY???? These are just a few off the top of my head. No color has the market on stupidity. It is all just sick!!!

Actually sandie you sound like the true racist. Those that have commited murder deserve t be hanged in public within 48 hrs of there guilty verdict Regardless of their race(if dna confirms it, there is 2 witnesses or a confession, others life in a six by six with no books,no tv, no computer or visitors and only 2 meals aday). Use a rope it will save millions within a year between housing them and using "human" execution methods.

Summation: Black people have been sold, lynched, spat on and shat on,

For your information all races have been enslaved by another at some point in time, there are still some held in slavery today, unlike here in America where slavery was ended and NOONE living right here now was held in slavery, so past wrongs really dont mean much anymore. Many races that first came to this country have faced persecution and most have managed not only to become a valuble part of society but also many have prospered.

@Freestar-2915237,

Tawana Brawley and the lacrosse team, ok , you got those 2, repeat 2 instances. Your side is still far, far ahead of the game with regard to such things. As far as O.J. Simpson is concerned, I was never a "fan"so it really did not matter to me (other than seeing how far and fast his "white card" fell) what the verdict was. Whites were just upset that he beat the "just us" system, at that time. Oh well, stuff happens! As for the president, I do not see where what he said was such a problem, but white people nearly keeled over about it. Again, oh well. As for the New Black Panthers, why do you all have your panties in a bunch about them? We have had to live with the Aryans (killed that Ethiopian man in Oregon or Washington state a few years back, kicked him to death.) white supremicists and the rest of those idiots since forever. You do not seem too concerned about them. Yeah, it's sick alright. And who started all the sickness?

@bluthunder,

Do a lot of sweeping under the rug? Oh, and the rope thing........been there, done that, remember?

@bluthunder,

As for your statement that "past wrongs really don't mean much anymore," why don't you try that theory out on some of your Jewish friends, if you have any. See how well that goes over with them. Tell them that the holocaust "don't mean much anymore." I'm sure they will be tickled pink with your reasoning.

Death penalty brings victims back to life...

Rich-4274730.......

When racism affects our legal system, the number of victims increases.

Rich - Victims don't matter to liberals, only using race to make themselves feel "special" matters, the resulting pain to honest Americans means nothing to them.

"Robinson and co-defendant Roderick Williams Jr. were convicted of murdering 17-year-old Erik Tornblom after the teen gave his killers a ride from a Fayetteville convenience store. Tornblom was forced to drive to a field, where he was shot with a sawed-off shotgun."

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-race-played-role-nc-death-penalty-case-152140015.html

A 17 yr-old kid gives you and your friend a ride, and you repay the act by executing him with a sawed-off shotgun in a field. It doesn't get much lower than that.

@Ian, you are a sheep. Race has NEVER been a factor and the number of exectution prove it. 1292 inmates have been executed since 1976 when the death penealty was restored. Out of those numbers 726 are white and 443 are black. The study is 100% a lie to make black people out to be victims when it is whites that are the victims this time

mcb - "That's the kind of vile statement that comes from someone who never leaves his home and has no clue what is actually going on outside his own head."

That you think this represents someone who DOESN'T agree with you on letting a convicted murder live only highlights your own cluelessness and naivety. But great job providing absolutely zero meaningful arguments for your asinine position.

USMarine -

As IronMike pointed out above, and which you either conventiently ignored or haven't read yet, your comparison of numbers is not accurate. You need to look at what percentage of the population is white and what percentage is black.

As of 2010 12% of the population in the US identifies as black. 72% identifies as white. 72/12= 6

There should be one black man for every 6 white men on deathrow, all things being equal. Instead the ratio is 726/442= 1.64

That is the real math. Sorry to burst your bubble.

@Ivan,

ANd you conviently left out that 52% of ALL MURDER is committed by blacks vs 40% of ALL murder is committed by whites. Since that is fact, why have more whites been executed when more blacks commit the crime?

SOrry to bust your bubble with the rest of the equation

usmcsgt-24------their logic is screwed up. Based on what they claim, whites would have committed more murders than blacks. The way you state it 52% is committed blacks, that's true hard fact, and most of those crimes are committed against black people go figure. Their math doesn't quite jive Anyway jarhead Semper Fi 66/67 I corps

Rich - I care. This was an unspeakable crime. And I can't understand how we keep having to have laws, groups, etc. for only African Americans....doesn't these groups, laws, etc. just keep dividing us because we are all not being treated equal?? I mean this Racial Justice Act is just one of 100's if not thousands of laws, groups we have to "protect" African Americans. Isn't the NAACP, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson enough. Why is everything about race? Couldn't it just be that this person murdered another person so therefore he should be sentenced to death. He had a fair trial, he had his days in court. Why now does he get to live another 30 yrs or more in prison...is it just because he's black? That isn't fair to anyone and it makes our justice system look stupid and pays no respect the the victim's family. I also feel the death penalty is a deterrent, but that is only my personal opinion.

just for the record, the first man put to death on Florida's electric chair back when the death penalty was reinstated in 1976 was a white man, John Spekelink, whose case was tainted with controversy over whether or not he actually deserved the death penalty

meanwhile, Stephen Todd Booker, a black man, rapes and murders a 94-year old white woman in 1977 and he sits in his cell writing poetry while the taxpayers pay for his room and board

@harleyhoney, Are you serious? Are you aware that the NAACP, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are all private groups or people? They have no official power or authority. What laws can they enforce? Aren't they enough? Enough what and for whom? You stumbled right over the issue and didn't see it. You wrote, "he had a fair trial". No, he didn't! The court found that Blacks were systematically excluded from the jury pool for no reason other than race. That isn't a fair trial, that is manifest prejudice. Blacks didn't exclude themselves from jury duty, but someone did. You can ask the prosecutors why they made this about the race of jurors.

This was a common practice in jury selection across this country. I think it still happens every day...

NB820-001;

Did the basics of math escape you some how? The article clearly states that 2 of the juror's were Black & 1 was Native American. That's 3 of 12, or 25%, who were minorities. They had to vote for the death penalty also or there would have been no death sentence to overturn. How many minorities do we halve to provide to be fare? I suggest the distribution of minorities on this jury was more than fare.

Death penalty brings victims back to life...

No, but it brings justice to the victim's family. Knowing the scum will never kill again is closure for many people.

That 52% stat that the Marine keeps harping on is not factual. More black people are arrested and charged more harshly for their crimes. Just based on the fact that I am a woman of color, I know that the criminal justice system hands out justice differently to people of color. Many of you say, like it's solid proof, that it is a fact that black people committ more crimes than white. NOT true! Black people are just arrested and charged more often. I have no criminal record, but I am willing to bet money that if I committed a crime and a white woman committed the same crime, the results would be different. Our system has discriminated for so long, some of you are ouraged when it finally starts being "fair".

Realistic woman

That 52% stat that the Marine keeps harping on is not factual.

Read what he stated not what you want to be true. He stated that 52% of all MURDERS are committed by Blacks.

.......................Victims .............. Offenders
..................White Black... Other White.. Black Other
All homicides 50.9% 46.9% 2.1%... 45.8% 52.2% 2.0%
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

Now if you want to fault him for understating by .2% yes he is wrong.

More black people are arrested and charged more harshly for their crimes.

That may be true. Post a link

Just based on the fact that I am a woman of color, I know that the criminal justice system hands out justice differently to people of color.

Simply because you are a member of a group does not make your statement true. If anything it lends to a belief it COULD be bias. I am not saying you are wrong but your argument/proof is invalid.

NOT true! Black people are just arrested and charged more often.

Fact is though that as a proportion of population, Blacks commit significantly more HOMICIDES on a per capita basis than Whites.

I invite you to provide a reliable source on crime OFFENDERS. I can find MANY that make claims but are very biased. They can't even get the homicide numbers right. I can find reliable numbers on victims but even that I can't find by race other than homicide.

I see reports of causative factors http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/are-blacks-a-criminal-rac_b_8398.html but not reports of crimes committed by race other than homicide... causative factors do not reflect actual crime rate. Example men commit rape does not mean all men commit rape only that the majority of rapes are committed by men. also victims by race doesn't tell us what race is doing the crime.

I have no criminal record, but I am willing to bet money that if I committed a crime and a white woman committed the same crime, the results would be different. Our system has discriminated for so long, some of you are ouraged when it finally starts being "fair".

I and others tire of hearing the rant without the real numbers. Yes for a long time Blacks were down trodden, and discriminated against. I have no issue with being fair. I have issue with being blamed for the PAST of OTHERS. I also have issue with someone being a "victim" when the injury was not to them.

Your statement that there would be different treatment reflects my statement that you feel you would be treated unfairly based on the PAST of others, not yourself on your own merits.

Trust....thank you for saving me typing.That was very well said........

rusty-2418164

Welcome... fairly easy except those tabbed statistics...

We can easily decrease the cost of executing these murderers. If convicted using DNA, have 2 eyewitnesses or a confession they should be HANGED within 48 hrs in public with those in juvenile detention made to witness it so they will see what they are headed for. To say it is not a deterent there are cases where the murderer has been released or escaped and committed multiple murders again, it would have detered thse from happening. Those innocent people would still be alive.

It never ceases to amaze me how people like Sarah complain about the death penalty for those that hae MURDERED other people and have shown they cannot live in society, yet COMPLAINS non stop about her RIGHT to have an abortion to kill something that has not done any harm to another person. People like sarah should be made to see the photo's of the torture many of these murder victims endured, and see what their families have lost from the actions of a murderer she does not want to be executed.

Bluthunder You are comparing apples to oranges. One is executed for murdering a living, breathing, feeling human being while the other stops, a none feeling 3/4 inch long piece of material, from becoming a living, breathing, feeling human being.

Buffaloes roam, Your facts are lost on the tone deaf dingbats posting here. They are either in abject denial or simply refuse to acknowledge the truth. I'm going to make this as plain as I can. The death penalty is sought at a far higher rate WHEN THE VICTIM IS WHITE! This has been found to be true regardless of the race of the accused. This has little to do with this case in NC. The court found that Blacks had been excluded from the jury in a peculiar pattern that defied probability and averages.

society is and has been crumbling. America has absolutely no moral fiber left. if we had better moral values (an ability to know the difference between right and wrong) wouldn't you think that things would correct themselves?

"Process of law" was the trial. "Reason" was the despicable, cowardly execution of a 17 year old that earned his own execution.

"Free of passion" is enforcing the sentence rather than creating injustice through a passion to make oneself feel special by pretending you are helping someone.

As probably the only one here who has ever been a prosecutor and picked dozens of juries on homicide cases, I have to say you are missing a critical point Sarah. Let me present this hypothetical: I have 20 people in my venire (jury pool) to pick from. I voir dire (ask questions) of all 20 of them. The first 10 of them respond with various versions of the following: I hate the police, the police are corrupt, the justice system is broken, the victim probably asked for it. Or they just sit there and pick their noses, make outrageous comments (ex: there are aliens in my head telling me what to do), or and have about the common sense of a potted plant. The second 10 of them are smart, interested, educated, paying attention, listening to the attorneys and judge, and have no apparent bias towards any side. If the first 10 happen to all be white and the second 10 happen to all be black, guess what - I pick an all black jury. If the next day the breakdown is the opposite, then I end up with an all white jury. I'm not striking a juror because of the color of their skin and race has absolutely nothing to do with the selection process - it is the juror themselves that we look at. However, if you just look at the statistical breakdown of just color of skin and fact that they were not selected for the jury - with no other factors considered - then it makes it look like there is racial bias when there is not. There is some seriously flawed reasoning behind this Act.

The trial or process of law, in this case, was not applied with equality. Free of passion, in this case, is understanding that in the face of this man's horrible actions.

Coleslaw,

I'm aware of voir dire. I'm also aware you weren't the prosecuter on this case. I tend to believe, when someone's life is at stake, as well as justice and a basic tenent of our laws, we should err on the side of caution. It's not nearly as simple as you're attempting to make it.

"Free of passion, in this case, is understanding that in the face of this man's horrible actions"

Wrong.

"Free of passion" is acknowledging the horrible actions (which is what he was tried and sentenced for) rather than choosing to pretend that race mitigates a well-earned and well-deserved death sentence.

Sarah - It most certainly is not nearly as devious, racist, and corrupt as you are attempting to make it. The jury selection process I described is not the exception, it is the rule. Why on earth would I pick a white person who may be biased or a terrible juror over a black person who may be a fantastic, intelligent, and fair juror just because of the color of their skin. That's absurd. And as far as your opinion on the death penalty goes - I would invite you to walk a day in the shoes of a prosecutor or homicide investigator, especially ones who do child homicides. When you see the unbelievable things that some of these murders are capable of doing (Hollywood can't hold a candle to the reality) you would very quickly change your mind. I don't support the electric chair... I support the electric couch - let's do two or three of them at a time.

Coleslaw,

Why on earth would I pick a white person who may be biased or a terrible juror over a black person who may be a fantastic, intelligent, and fair juror just because of the color of their skin

This isn't about YOU. And if you can't see why a court would be leary of the motivation behind such a one raced jury, you aren't looking deeply enough.

I don't support the electric chair... I support the electric couch - let's do two or three of them at a time.

And here I thought you were sworn to uphold the law and practice it with all the caution and respect it deserves. Cross all the T's and dot all the I's. Or, you know, just throw everyone in a bathtub with a blow dryer.

Thank you Loving for seeing the only portion of this that matters. Murder is murder

Sarah-I think it is sad that you are so willing to try and shred anyone who has an opinion other than your own. It's ridiculous that even those who have an actual fact based experience such as coleslaw are automatically negatted in your mind because they see what you can not. It's sad how many people would rather see a murder live out their days and not be subject to the punishment for the crime they committed because peopel can't except that people may have tried them based on I don't know the crime THEY Commited. The only solution to this kind of BS is to make capital punishment mandatory for all murderers btu I would imagine people like you would still find a way to turn it into a race card instead of the fact that murderers deserve to be punished for their crimes.

I'm a black woman and I guess I'm missing the point because in the end he still murdered someone........

Its called the appeal process to make people think the death penalty is a bad thing. It seems like youd agree with me, if you murder someone, youve forfeited your right to life, race is irrelevant.

Sara

I guess the only way you would ever understand the reason for the death penalty is if your child, mother, brother, father or other close relative were murdered the way the 17 year old was. He was taken away from a mother and/or father. If the murderer is found guilty, then he deserves the same fate as his victim. I don't give a crap if the jury is rainbow colored. Do the crime, do the time. In extreme cases, the death penalty is deserved and should be carried out within the year. My husband works at a prison and he has heard inmates bragging about the crime they committed and being on Death Row. He has had more than one say that they love being in prison, 3 hots and a cot. They get 3 meals a day, weight rooms, exercise in the yard, canteen, smokes, TV, hell they don't WANT to leave. So tell me what is keeping them alive doing to avenge someone's life? They are living, their families can come visit, spouses get conjugal visits.....while the victim's family has had to go on without him/her. Yeah, I really feel for that scum sitting in prison. NOT.

And I guess you missed the passage in the bible about "doing unto others as they do to you". In fact, man was punished by God with the "40 days and 40 nights of rain"; oh, guess they didn't cover that one in Sunday school either.

How about forget all that nonsence and say, "Talion" I believe that is just punishment. No Sarah, I won't break it down for you, you have time to look it up. Talion.

truedat6445 Im with you what happened to being AMERICAN first. now the country is being devided Black & white I thought America fought a civil war to end that looks like some are still fighting a 2oo year old war not for equal rights they want more rights than any other citizen with the passing of such laws.blacks are allowed to kill another HUMAN with no chance of recourse! they can always play that racist card and walk HOW IS THAT JUSTICE

They didnt manipluate the jury..

THE JOB of the prosecutors is to get a guilt conviction. Both sides of the coin have X number of people they can strike from the Jury Pool for no reason what so ever.

If putting more white people, and he does so legally ( which is what was done ) helps put a murderer to death, I have ZERO problems with it. If the defendant was a Klan Member who killed a black guy, and putting more blacks on the jury gets a conviction, I have ZERO PROBLEM with it.

It still boggles my mind, how someone convicted of murdering a 17 year old with a sawed off shotgun somehow " deserves " special treatment because he is black.

the only Special treatment the guy should get either a bullet, the chair, or a needle.

jeremy: Yes, the proscutors did manipulate the juror selection process.

They excluded black jurors at more than 4 times the rate of other races. WHY? Did they do this because the jurors were unqualified? Apparently not, according to this judge's ruling.

Read before commenting.

Jeremy, this was and remains a horrible crime. You point out in a number of posts that the victim was 17. Are you aware that the convict was also 17 at the time? He is 38 now, the murder took place in 1991. Regardless of the ages, he was rightly convicted. The issue is that the prosecution simply excluded too many Blacks from the jury pool without sound reasoning. Assuming that any all Black people are "soft on crime" is biased thinking.

the prosecutor cant just say ok no blacks in the jury!!!! they say no to that one, then the defense gets to do the same and at the end they end up with a jury that BOTH sides picked.

Wasn't Marcus Robinson just standing his ground?

Yes there is...726 whites have been executed and 443 blacks since we created the death penalty in 1976. It seems whites are the ones who are actually being killed much much more

It wasn't simply a shooting, it was a kidnapping and execution by multiple assailants who the victim had just given a ride. Just slightly difference than being shot while slaming someones head into the ground because they followed you.

"Robinson and co-defendant Roderick Williams Jr. were convicted of murdering 17-year-old Erik Tornblom after the teen gave his killers a ride from a Fayetteville convenience store. Tornblom was forced to drive to a field, where he was shot with a sawed-off shotgun."

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-race-played-role-nc-death-penalty-case-152140015.html

To all of you agreeing to save this mans life after he killed a 17yr old boy for NO reason whatsoever I suggest that he live with YOU until he dies. Or you do. Whichever comes first.

Sorry. I don't care what your race is. If you kill someone like that. You die. Period. End of discussion.

Update: New Testament...

That is old testament. The life and death of of Jesus removed the old "eye for an eye" justice and placed it in the hands of God.

Analysis: WWJD??? he'd compen$ate the u.s. slaves' progeny as was done/ordained by God in

the case with the Hebrew slaves

Guns can only kill when in the hands of and under the guidance of people.

piglizard420.......

Atomic weapons and nerve gases "only kill when in the hands of and under the guidance of people". Do you advocate making these legally available to the general population?

It might be interesting to test your pulse should you be locked in a room full of chimpanzees with handguns. Perhaps you would reconsider your theory.

Atomic weapons and nerve gasses are indiscriminate weapons and have an area of effect, so they can't be targeted towards individuals, thus negating self defense unless you could contain the affected area to your home, like sealing your house, hiding in a safe room and triggering nerve gas to kill off intruders. There's no containing atomic weapons, just detonating them in select areas where you want to destroy everything within that zone. I don't support these being in the hands of individuals because the misuse would be far more deadly than an individual bullet, or even a few magazines.

But these two things, just like guns, are tools, and require human intervention to execute their function. If I wanted to kill someone, I could also use a lead pipe, a rope, a candlestick, a knife, or a wrench, or a myriad of other tools that weren't referenced in Clue.

As to your comment about monkeys and guns, they lack the reasoning to use that particular tool appropriately, so I don't think it's a fair statement. Come up with one that references armed people, and I'll consider it.

Guns can only kill when in the hands of and under the guidance of people.

Nonsense. The liberals tell us guns walk around and do this on their own all the time.

D-1519975.....you said:

Quote.....If I wanted to kill someone, I could also use a lead pipe, a rope, a candlestick, a knife, or a wrench, or a myriad of other tools.....EndQuote

The trouble with those "other tools" is that they are not nearly so efficient nor quick as a tool (i.e. handgun) which is specifically designed to kill. Neither would they let you kill at a distance.

You also said:

Quote.....As to your comment about monkeys and guns, they lack the reasoning to use that particular tool appropriately.....EndQuote

Perhaps that is why children, retarded folks, and the criminally insane frequently do not use those "tools appropriately".

Why can't you folks just admit that guns (particularly handguns and assault weapons) facilitate homicides of various sorts? The evidence is starting to pour in that your experiment to return us to the gun culture of the frontier west is even more miserable a failure now than it was then. It's the same mentality that produced decades of denial that cigarettes are strongly related to various (deadly) diseases.

I fully concur that guns are one of the most effective methods of killing people, but you're missing the point that someone still needs to use (or misuse) them to produce the results we're worried about. As for the comment about the various groups that shouldn't be allowed to use guns, that's what background checks related to gun control are for.

The comparison between guns and cigarettes is another terrible comparison. We didn't understand the health dangers of them for several years, but we've always had a very clear understanding of a gun's purpose, and its consequences.

I'm all for gun control, I also believe that there are responsible gun owners out there who use their guns for their legally intended purpose. I'm not a fan of assault weapons, and don't believe they should be legal for public purchase.

When the second amendment was conceived, it was due to the military being more of a militia than what we have today for the defense of our country. It's sad that it has been perverted from allowing private citizens to posses firearms to what it is currently. Unfortunately we're never going to have enough votes to change the constitution. What we should be doing is making sure that checks are in place to make sure that children, criminals, those that don't have their full mental capacity, and chimpanzees are unable to obtain licensing for a gun. In addition, criminalize misuse so much that it actually makes people think twice before doing anything that could be construed as misuse.

Ok here comes the anti gun fruitcake know nothings! Spewing their ignorance and hatred for an innatimate object!!! Maybe you should hate hammers too? Their another tool, good for bludgening someone to death or throwing at someones head! Or maybe kitchen knives, "used in plenty of murders"! You anti gun nimrods are the most uneducated, ignorant, moronic, maggot faced, fools on the face of the earth and as hard as you try, and as loud as you scream your ignorant no brain nonsense against one of mans greatest inventions and most usefull tools, YOU WILL NEVER, EVER EVER WIN YOUR LITTLE MORONIC WAR ON THE RIGHTS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICAN GUN OWNERS!!! YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF WORTHLESS LOSERS AND THAT'S ALL YOU'LL EVER BE!!! GOODBYE!

D-1519975.........

Look closely at the comment (above) of rightwing extreme......

This is only one example of the mentality of some who promote deregulation (even unregulated) firearms. Clearly, this is one individual whose predisposition for rage argues eloquently for gun laws.

If all adults were as stable as you (D-1519975) seem to be and could be counted on to act responsibly, their possession of firearms would be a force for good. However, folks such as rightwing extreme are common and they are often the very ones who are most attracted to and supportive of unregulated firearms. They are the folks who show up at political rallies with firearms and who, when faced with an inflammatory situation, shoot first and ask questions later.

BTW--The Surgeon General's report (issued on March 7, 1962) formally recognized the connection between tobacco use and disease. Many health professionals had been making this argument for years prior to 1962. Yet, many Americans refused for decades (some still do) to accept those findings. So, the analogy is indeed apt. Both are practices known to result in increased death rates and both were vociferously defended by a boisterous crowd.

Of course, someone must (in most, but not all, cases) misuse a firearm for bad outcomes to occur. However, as experience reveals, such misuse is common. Misuse of other tools (with the possible exception of vehicles and explosives) rarely have such dire consequences.

Thanks rightwing extreme....for your illustration.

I don't know that I'd make the assumption that our new mutual friend could pass the background check based on the mental capacity shown in the above post... I concur that the intelligence level displayed is more common than I'd like, and the cowboy mentality is one that is relatively frequent as well, but that's not going to be enough to overturn the constitutional laws we have in place.

I'm still going to argue that the cigarette analogy isn't apt. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking), tobacco has been smoked for thousands of years (5000 - 3000 BC according to the book referenced). Knowing something is dangerous for the last 100ish years means that at a minimum, smoking tobacco was done obliviously for 4,912 years (the first referenced study that tobacco was harmful being in 1912), or 98% of the time it's been in use. A gun's consequences have been known for 100% of the time it's been in use because it was developed for a specific purpose.

You hit it on the head when you said vehicles had the same potential for misuse, and could have equally dire consequences. My challenge to that is how many people are unable to use their vehicles in a safe manner and are allowed to continue to drive? Every time an elderly driver loses control of their automobile, it makes the news, yet we as a society don't take the actions needed to protect the population. South Park did a really good job on that one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Dawn This of course excludes the people charged with felonies associated with vehicles that are still allowed to drive. If someone is charged with assault with a firearm, I'm pretty sure their gun will get taken away immediately. I've known of cases where someone was convicted of vehicular assault, the defendant served several months of work release, and drove to work every day...

I'm an advocate for gun control. I'm also an advocate for people who are responsible and law abiding citizens who choose to own firearms despite the risks posed. And I'm a huge advocate for people following the law. I'd love to change things to make guns less accessible, but we're stuck with what we have until we as a country can agree on what is the appropriate thing to do. It'll take a 2/3 majority vote in congress and 3/4 of the states (38) to amend the constitution. It's never going to happen...

D-1519975.......

Considering some recent (arguably politically motivated) SCOTUS rulings ("Kelo v City of New London" & "Citizens United v FEC"come to mind), a Constitutional amendment be unnecessary. Whether something is "constitutional" or not seems increasingly in the eye of the beholder (court).

BTW---gun ownership (well regulated) is appropriate for this country. It's the "well regulated" part that incites debate.

Then it's just down to the politicians in individual municipalities enacting laws that are in the best interests of their constituents, which I eluded to as somewhat of a viable solution earlier.

We're close to being on the same page, and I'd love to be as optimistic as you are about the future of this issue. I'm just trying to be realistic about the goals we should be setting forth.

Remember that when your child, grandchild, neice or nephew meets this fate:

"Robinson and co-defendant Roderick Williams Jr. were convicted of murdering 17-year-old Erik Tornblom after the teen gave his killers a ride from a Fayetteville convenience store. Tornblom was forced to drive to a field, where he was shot with a sawed-off shotgun."

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-race-played-role-nc-death-penalty-case-152140015.html

And don't forget to come back here and read the comments from people like yourself who are glad that the murderer gets to spend his life on the taxpayer dime until he dies of old age.

It costs less to pay for a life sentence than capital punishment. If the economic element is the most important factor for you.

pjam: you should never assume that one persons idea of judgement is the same as another's. Life in prison is the harsher punishment in my eyes. Once a life is over the punishment has ended. I, personally, could never stand in a courtroom in front of another mother and demand that her child be murdered because her child murdered mine.

My logic is based on the fact that I would not know that my child was going to be murdered on a specific date so I only suffer at the moment of knowing and beyond. She would suffer for all the years leading up to, the day of and then all the years beyond. His or her mother does not deserve that fate on the incorrect premise that I will somehow feel better about my child's death when hers is dead. Nothing could make me feel better about my child's death so why would I intentionally inflict that pain and more on another woman who has done nothing to me?

That's a weird logic. If death is lesser punishment, then I don't see any criminals taking it willingly. Living itself is a privilege for murderers. They should be executed immediately once convicted. NO excuses!

Yeah you say that now, but if your son/daughter, in their TEENS were murdered I bet you wouldn't feel that way. My husband works at a prison; these scum LIKE living there for life. No bills, 3 meals a day, roof over their head, exercise rooms and yards. Hell, they can get college degrees online.

I can honestly say, without any doubt, that IF the perpetrator was caught before I got to him/her black, white, yellow whatever, I would absolutely watch that waste of oxygen fry. If someone can murder another person without any qualms, there is no rehabilitating them. I think every state in the US needs to have an "express lane" instead of death row. Their victims sure as hell didn't get to appeal their murders.

scoobydoo-dumb girl

What good is an education if a person is serving life in prison?? Geez!

Ed, obviously you dont get it. Shes explaining how many options they have and how easy it is for them in there. Check yourself before you call others dumb.

dAgOOCH?

You are a Gooch and a few other simple names too. How easy it is for them in there?? How many years did you serve? In there? I suppose eating 3 meals a day is an option, but they are not forced to eat all 3. You try 10 years or more inside prison and see how well you like the "many" options in there. Check that.

Hey Ed the motard:

Sounds like you have served time. I was discussing the benefits that prisoners receive. True, they do not need an education in prison, but the point I was making was that they are given opportunities that they would not be able to get outside of prison. That is why many do not care whether they ever get out. They have all they need right there. They, unlike their victims, get to live out their natural lives.

Arthur, shame on you for being so logical.

Did he kill the guy or not???!!

No! He was white.

Race became a factor when liberal U.S. media began treating news as any excuse to sensationalize race.

Jury of his peers is not in the Constitution of the United States. It just wants a jury that is impartial.

US Marine: Stop reprinting your lies and made up facts. You have been proven a racist and a liar by Sarah.

Go away and stop polluting the board.

US Marine and Pjam09

You are the only ones on here that have any sense whatsoever. I bet if any of them had a close family murdered, all they would worry about would be that a loved one was taken away from them. This waste of oxygen and his friend killed a 17 YR OLD teenager. That boy had his whole life ahead of him. The two slime balls didn't give a rat's a** about his life or theirs. I am with coleslaw I believe in the "death couch'. And the electricity to run it wouldn't cost as much as feeding and housing the scum that deserve it.

Hanging is cheap too.

You sacrificial subliminial sob! How many times are you gonna repeat 726 and 443??? Who gives a crap? You sound like someone who's opened a book and read a stat for the first time. You're humiliating and embarassing my military! STFU PLEASE!!

iman-the truth hurts don't it. Did you even check his statistics, no, i'm sure. And Sarah is a joke.

Iman quit being Sarahs lap dog. You have about as much common sense as her, which isnt much.

Fact: a teenager was murdered by Marcus Robinson, without a doubt.

Do we really need to go on? If so, then you really should check your morality.Due to this specific case even if the whole jury was in KKK uniforms it still doesnt dismiss the fact he KILLED someone in cold blood.

Maybe he killed him BECAUSE he was white, sounds reasonable since there doesnt seem to be any other motive. Now go choke on that racial garbage.

DaGooch, Marine puke, and Scooby-dumb girl,

Everyone remembers or have heard of the O.J. trial, one (1) black man that possibly got away with murder in the court system. That's one. You three mutual maggots seem to like stats so much, what about the number of white men who have gotten away with murder since George Washington called himself the "father" of this country? Get those stats and come back here and complain. White men have been murdering, stealing and raping from nations of natives, during the slave period, (some 500 plus years) during the cilvil rights era to the present.

One of the most horrific murders in our history, the Emmitt Till case. Google it please. That's one of many murders that went unjust. The most sinister part about that one, the accused was actually interviewed later in which they sold their confession to a reporter for a few carltons of ciggs and less than 500 dollars. Have fun investigating that stat and story of your peers history.

Just for your information, DEAD HEAD ED, I am a Native American. My people dealt with all the crap you and your forefathers threw at us, yet we don't get in your face about it nor do we whine and beg for reparations 300 years later. I am Cherokee, we lost a lot of people on the Trail of Tears. When a Native American is tried and found guilty, do you EVER hear about it? No. We were dumped onto reservations, our pride and dignity gone. Just think we went through that, and are still called derogatory names by whites. My husband's mother used to talk about "those Indians" up in Montana where they are from. I finally snapped one day and gave her azz a big piece if my mind. Damn milk white Swedish racist witch.

So if you think that I am racist, then you can rest assured I am not. I have friends and family of every color. My point is that if you are found guilty of taking another person's life (not self defense but premeditated murder) then you deserve death as well. I don't give a crap what damn color you are, you should have your life taken from you like you took the victim's life from them.

So I don't have to Google anything. My elders passed down the stories. Let me ask you this: What race are you? Since you are now racially profiling everyone. I believe that US Marine stated that he was half white half black. Yet he is behind giving this creep the death penalty. Race hasn't got a damn thing to do with it. It is the fact that he took a life. What part of that do you not get? You can call me anything you want, it's not like I haven't been called names before. But I don't believe that you could condone giving someone life in prison while one of your family is six feet under. As for stats, I did not quote any stats, so obviously you have a problem with either vision or your reading comprehension. But if the stats that others are quoting upset you so very much, then you are more than welcome to leave. It is not necessary to call others names and act like a child. From the supercilious and condescending tone that you have taken, I would have thought you to be an adult. But evidently you are a child or a disturbingly childish adult.

How is the Till case one of the most horrific murders in our history? Just comparing the Till case to this one, I think the poor white kid who never saw it coming makes this one more horrifiic. Before you get all up on your soapbox, I do NOT think it was in any way justified that Till lost his life for flirting, so don't even start with that. This white kid was doing a good deed and had no idea he would die in a very HORRIFIC manner. Till knew there would be fallout from his actions and did it anyway. BUT, it is the arrogance that is taught to certain races that got him killed. Everyone knows about racism in the 50s and yet somehow this kid thought he would get away with flirting with a white married woman? Arrogance and entitlement is what keeps racism alive and well. Murder should beget murder. Kill someone, any color, you should die and the victim's next of kin should get to flip the switch, pull the trigger, drop the floor from beneath their feet. The family of this poor kid, who was murdered in cold blood, is now going to help pay to make the waste of air comfortable for the rest of his life instead of putting their tax dollars toward his death. I don't care how you look at it and how many numbers get thrown around, racism is alive and well and it is getting turned the other way instead of being abolished! White people are not the ones running around screaming racism all time, white people are not the ones who keep racism actively moving forward, white people are not the ones acting is if they entitled to something in return for what heppened to our dead ancesters. White people didn't just steal people from their homes and turn them into slaves, they bought them from their own families also. I am sick to death of the slavery card, the racism debate, and all the backlash that comes with it. I can accept that white people, past and present, have done horrible things. And yes, I know that the majority of the evil-doers from our history pages were not black, but white. Truth is, I accept history for what it is....history. I would like to say that I look forward to a day when people can let go of the past and just live life, but that will never happen. Because we still live in a society that says because there was slavery and some white people were mean, I will have to pay for it. Even though I have never owned a human being and would never want to own another person. And yes, I know that the backwoods rednecks who still act like I can't go have lunch with the kindest friend I ever had because of her color, are idiots. The race war is, on every level, is white(a lot of ignorance) vs. black(a lot of entitlement) and when these opinions go away, so will racism.

Thank you pookiedbear, for reiterating what I myself was trying to get across. The point of the discussion was is it right to allow a convicted murderer, who had already been sentenced to have the death penalty removed and instead allow him to live out his remaining years. I do not care what race or sex they are. A woman can be just as cruel as a man.

But you are right. People are still holding grudges and making everything about race. If people would just put the past behind them, there would be a brighter future for all of us. As a Native American, my race has dealt with the taking of our lands, the murders and rapes of our people, and then being forced to live on a reservation. We lost everything: our way of life and our pride and dignity. I won't even get on that subject.

@scoobydoogurl,

"You all do not whine about reparations." THAT'S a good one! The casinos ARE the native americans "reparations." I do believe that certain housholds receive certain (big) checks (is it monthly?) from certain casinos. Don't flip the script! The Asians who were in held in the camps in WW2 were also paid reparations. The only reason black people will not be paid is because slavery is something whites always want to sweep under the rug. Unless, of course, it is the Holocaust, THEN it's all weeping and wailing, wringing of hands, rendering clothing and bringing up Anne Frank and Elie Weisel. Yea, right!

@pookiedbear,

I believe you are PWF (posting without fact(s) regarding poor Emmitt Till. He did NOTHING. The trailer trash female who accused him of winking and/or speaking to her said, at some point well after the murder, that she lied about the whole thing. Well, why not admit it then,? She was never going to be convicted of anything. Same with the POS males, they admitted to the killing well after the fact and suffered nothing. Lastly some posters have made mention of the fact that the victim in the article was but 17 years old, well so was Trayvon Martin. Also as some here have posted, a murder is a murder is a murder. Yet they defend Zimmerman. Go figure.

@scoobydoogurl,

My people lost everything too, including children! At some point, we were supposed to receive 40 acres and a mule, Hell, we did not even get that. We probably should demand a reservation!

i want my 40 acres and mule!!!!!!!!! i never owned a slave and am poor why dont i get anything? cause im white? wait way back in the day long before any of us was alive a black person may have killed my ancestors and/or enslaved them so give me something!!!!!

iman

USMarineSgt's facts are correct, whites are executed far more than blacks. You may not want to believe it, since it doesn't support you racist viewpoints, but check it out for yourself.

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm

Facts don't lie, racists such as yourself on the other hand do.

Attorneys want juries that they can convince - not educated, impartial people who can think for themselves.

What do you suppose the outcome of this douche bag's trial would have been if he had a jury of his TRUE peers? 12 black men with his level of education, etc.?

Someone should try it!

Pete, if he had a true jury of his peers, that would be the dumbest jury ever.

PeteMT, a jury of his peers would not be legal, since he was 17 or younger when this crime was committed. How about that, huh? You are all for such equality, by your definition the jury should have been made up of teenagers, right?

I totally agree. By overthrowing the decisions of jury, the judge himself is exhibiting that he himself is racially biased. There is no ideal racial composition of a jury so that the decision can be impartial. The judge or the appeal is based on the assumption that only jury of same race as murderers/criminals can pass fair judgment.

Its called "Affirmative Action" ... and now there is a quota for letting murderers live based on race. Your taxdollars at work courtesy of self-loathing liberals and their constant desire to make themselves feel "special" no matter the expense to others.

Bill H, nice attempt to gloss over reality. That is exactly the point, actually. Since we are all equal under the law, there was no basis for excluding Blacks. The exclusion of Black members at a far higher rate than any other "race" indicates abject race based selection. Where is that "equality" you referenced?

Sometimes - and in most cases - it is people getting to the judge.

Such as the case in which Bill Ayers was finally caught and indicted for his acts of Terrorism. Ayers got off because the judge claimed "prosecutorial misconduct" that was NEVER proven - and no tricks were needed - since the entire case had hinged on affidavits, eye-witness accounts and an undercover agent who had infiltrated the Terrorist group, The Weather Undergroud - and reported back about conversations on the Weather Underground's effective use of WMD, persons involved in making the bombs, what would be used, discussions about their next targets - that was later followed by actions = bombings.

Ad if you go back up you see that said I had a typo...it's 35.8 a year not 3...and you fail at math if you got 40.38

USMarineSgt-2486236........

3.58 might be a typo......358 might be a typo.....45.8 might be typo.......

"on average the US executes 3 people a year" is NOT a typo. It might be a mistake. It might be disinformation or misinformation....but, it's not a typo.

See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/typographical+error

I rarely use fractions, and you will see that above in my other posts. I only used fractions on your reply to show how wrong you were.

Good day moron

Sure USMarineSgt-2486236.......

JeffinMilw busted you......now, you are trying to weasel your way out.

We see a lot of your sort here on Newsvine. Some pretend to be professionals they are not. Others claim to be veterans and, even, heroes. Others claim to be a minority (usually when they are accused of racism).

Common are those who claim to be "independents" when they are anything but. Probably, the most common are those (such as yourself) who present wholly fabricated "statistics" to support their agenda. Usually, they (much as yourself) resort to name-calling when they are "outed".

Good job...JeffinMilw.

BTW USMarineSgt-2486236.....when can we expect to see you motoring about in your $300k flying car? Man, for that price, you could have a previously-owned Beech Bonanza that cruises twice as fast, carries twice the load, looks sharp, and is proven technology. Oh well, maybe you got confused by the "fractions"........or, a typo.