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Subscribe to RSSSources close to the investigation into the disappearance of Etan Patz indicate that new evidence may have been uncovered 33 years after the 6-year-old vanished. NBC's Michelle Franzen reports.
Updated at 11:04 p.m. ET: Dozens of items, including strands of hair, a piece of paper and other possible bits of forensic evidence have been found in a SoHo basement in the four days that investigators have been searching for clues in the 1979 disappearance of Etan Patz, NBC New York has learned.
Law enforcement sources tell NBC New York that investigators from the FBI, NYPD and Manhattan district attorney's office have told the Patz family that no human remains have been found. The family was briefed Sunday on the investigation and what has been found at the site.
Investigators discovered a "stain of interest" on a drywall Saturday while taking apart the basement in their search for the remains of Etan, according to law enforcement sources. But by Sunday, a law enforcement source told Reuters that "nothing conclusive had been found."
The stain was discovered Saturday in the ongoing search for clues in the case of the 6-year-old boy who went missing 33 years ago on his short walk to the school bus stop.
NBC New York was first to report the break in the cold case on Thursday.
By Saturday, investigators had finished ripping up the basement's concrete floor with jackhammers and saws, and were digging through the dirt in hopes of finding the boy's remains, or any other evidence.
See the original story at NBCNewYork.com
It was while investigators were taking apart the basement floor and walls that they found a "stain of interest" on a drywall, according to law enforcement sources. Officers from the NYPD Emergency Services Unit used a chainsaw to cut out a piece of the wall, which is being preserved for analysis at the FBI Laboratory in Virginia. It's not clear how significant it is.
Other debris was also being tested, a process that could last into next week, chief police spokesman Paul Browne said.
At the time of Patz's disappearance, the 13-by-62 basement at 127B Prince Street was being used as a workshop by Othniel Miller, a handyman who was friendly with the Patz family.
Miller, now 75, has been interviewed by investigators several times over the years, but he recently made statements that raised their suspicions, according to law enforcement sources.
Stanley K. Patz / AP
Etan Patz, who vanished on May 25, 1979, and has never been found, after leaving his family's SoHo home for a short walk to his school bus stop in New York.
In a recent interview with investigators, he blurted out “What if the body was moved?” according to an official.
Sources also say they have evidence to suggest Patz had been in the basement before.
Miller hasn't been named a suspect, and his lawyer says he has nothing to do with the case.
Investigators Saturday were mostly concentrating their search towards the rear of the basement, where a cadaver-sniffing dog recently picked up a scent.
It's unclear what the renewed probe may turn up, if anything.
"We're hopeful that we can bring some level of comfort to the parents, perhaps find some — obviously, the body of this poor child — but evidence that may lead to a successful investigation in this case," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. He was a lieutenant working on organized crime cases when Etan Patz vanished.
As for whether authorities were optimistic, he said, "I really can't say."
Through a lawyer, Miller denied having anything to do with Etan's vanishing, which helped turn missing children into a nationwide cause. Miller's grandson, Tony Miller, said Friday outside his home that his grandfather is a "good guy" who "wouldn't do this."
Investigators have also questioned a second person, Jesse Snell, in connection with the re-examination of evidence. NBC New York has learned that on the morning Patz disappeared in 1979, Snell was observed at the building where police are searching now, and also worked with Miller. Investigators would not elaborate on why they met with Snell.
The investigation into the disappearance of Patz has stretched through decades and countries, from basements to rooftops and seemingly everywhere in between.
No one has ever been charged criminally — and Etan Patz, the little boy with sandy brown hair and a toothy grin, was declared dead in 2001.
This week, after more than a decade of relative quiet, the case suddenly ran hot again, after the cadaver-sniffing dog picked up the scent.
The investigation has reached similar highs before — only for the trail to go cold for years at a time.
Vanished in 1979
Patz vanished on May 25, 1979, while walking alone to his school bus stop for the first time, two blocks from his home in New York's SoHo neighborhood.
There was an exhaustive search by the police and a crush of media attention. The boy's photo was one of the first of a missing child on a milk carton. Thousands of fliers were plastered around the city, buildings canvassed, hundreds of people interviewed. SoHo was not a neighborhood of swank boutiques and galleries as now, but of working-class New Yorkers rattled by the news.
Etan's parents, Stan and Julie, offered a $25,000 reward for information leading to the boy's whereabouts, and sightings were frequently reported, to no avail. In 1986, a child resembling Etan was spotted in Israel, which prompted detectives to circulate his photo there. Nothing came of it.
A name gradually emerged as a possible suspect: Jose Ramos, a drifter and onetime boyfriend of Etan's baby sitter. In the early 1980s, he was arrested on theft charges, and had photos of other young, blond boys in his backpack. But there was no hard evidence linking Ramos to the crime.
Missing persons cases, like homicides, are generally considered cold after six months, but they're never closed. And with seemingly no new leads, the case would go quiet for years. In three decades, 10 detectives have been assigned to head up the case. The FBI and police are working jointly.
"Those cases are still maintained by someone, but the attention they get diminishes over time," said Joseph Pollini, a retired NYPD lieutenant in the cold case squad, now a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. "There's often nothing you can do, when you have no new leads."
Reviving the case
A fresh lead came in 2000, after Ramos, now in prison in Pennsylvania for sexually molesting two boys in unrelated cases, admitted he was with Etan the day he disappeared. He was said to have told a cellmate: "Etan is dead. There is no body, and there will never be a body."
That prompted police to scour for clues in the building where Ramos lived at the time. They dismantled the furnace and searched it for DNA. But they found only animal traces.
By the next year, father Stan Patz, who never moved or even changed their phone number in the hope their son would reach out, had Etan declared dead in order to sue Ramos in civil court. He was tired of waiting for justice, he said at the time.
A civil judge in 2004 found him to be responsible for the disappearance and presumed death of the boy, after he disobeyed her orders to answer deposition questions under oath for a lawyer representing Etan's parents. Ramos says he didn't do it.
The ruling provided a tiny measure of comfort to the family, though Stan Patz never collected the $2 million the judge ordered Ramos to pay. But the criminal case continues, and prosecutors lacked enough evidence to charge Ramos criminally.
The case was quiet until 2010 when new district attorney Cyrus R. Vance said he was going to revisit it.
Ramos is scheduled to be released from prison in Pennsylvania in November. His pending freedom is one of the factors that has given new urgency to the case.
The basement space being searched sits beneath several clothing boutiques. Investigators began by removing drywall partitions so they could get to brick walls that were exposed in 1979. The work will continue through the weekend.
About 50 law enforcement agents including forensics experts and an anthropologist are on scene. While cadaver-sniffing dogs are capable of detecting scents much older than 33 years, it's also possible the dog picked up an animal scent or was plain wrong.
The swank cobblestone street remained closed off and was a veritable media circus, with trucks and crews parked along the curb and gawking tourists stopping to snap photos.
The Patz family hasn't commented or turned up near the site, though it's visible from their home — they've seen the circus before.
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"Stain of interest"?? FFS, give me a break.
What are you, a forensics professional? I hope they find something to give his family closure, unlike you who is a heartless jerk arse
Not so much of a "jerk arse" as sensible... the article also states that the basement had brick walls in 1979. So a stain on a piece of drywall that might not have even been made by that time does make the stain a long shot.
Eugene - Your post reminds me of a pre-teenager. And StandUp - Long shot or not, if it were your child, you would want the same closure as the Patz's are hoping for. Maybe you both should go post on the Zimmerman article where everything is fresh and new. I for one hope they find something for these parents. I saw a show yesterday about a woman whose family was in a similar circumstance and after five years the daughter that most had presumed dead was found alive and living very well across the country. Who's to say this could not happen to the Patz family. Yes, this would be a long shot, at best, but I am an optimist with a half full glass everyday.
i thought it might be water stain...
wow- uall r a bunch of crank-pots
BRAVO!!! It's 2012 not 1979! What a WASTE of money!! Did our multimillion dollar Mayor Bloomberg authorize this?? It appears to be a media smoke screen to divert folks from fighting the excesses of the rich! Who gets served by this story? Schools are being closed!
ImaMother....If he was your child, I bet you wouldn't call it a waste of money.
ImaMother ~~ you don't sound anything like a real mother. Your trite, callous and very selfish post is very telling of what kind of a mother? you are. Hopefully if your child(ren), grandchildren, niece, nephew, sibling, mother, father, grandparent or dearest friend went missing there would be a huge news event, and people everywhere would be made aware, and hopefully someone would know something and come forward with information that would lead to your missing loved one.
What a relief for the parents of this child, if this mystery can be solved, even after all these years. My hope would be that they would be able to have a bit of peace, after all this time. It's NEVER TOO LATE for justice to be served in the case of a beloved missing child.
Sues and others talking about "closure". There is no "closure". If the truth is discovered, it just provides a different set of emotions.
As someone stated earlier, a stain on a wall that possibly wasn't even there decades ago is a real long shot,
...Yeah, emotions like "thank God they finally got the a-hole who killed my son!". Surely no closure in that at all.... please
To me, the worst part of this story is that a child molester is about to go free, to, no doubt, offend again. When will we ever put the welfare of innocent children above the rights of criminals? A child molester should never be free!
I used to work in a prison with 75% sex offenders. And the estimate is a child molester will molest up to 60 children before being caught. So when one sees a pedophile, 60 children may have been hurt. That's a huge amount to suffer this abuse. We had a sex offender die in prison, and the captain of the guards said, "those 60 little children can sleep better tonight."
More horrifying is the idea that perhaps both men mentioned here were responsible? One took him, they both used him, and then disposed of the body.
StandUpJokeOff..."they both used him"...and you KNOW this HOW? Because you read it in a story on the internet? It is more horrifying to me when the public jumps to conclusions based on one or two biased articles.
I'm not horrified, but I am confused about why a member of the public (Cheri-658004) wants to ignore parts of a post and jump to the conclusion that the poster (StandUpJokeOff) is jumping to conclusions.
machspeed
You beat me to the punch. Cheri apparently does not know the meaning of the word perhaps.
100% agreed
you are exactly right. they will re-offend again and again. i have been a correctional officer for ten years and have had a lot or training and insight. they can not be habilitated. yes, habilitated not rehabilitated. they are the lowest scum of the earth and should be incarcerated for life.
It's never too late to find the truth. I can't imagine the pain the parents have been going through all these years hoping to find their child. At that point dead or alive is an answer that would allow them to move on and find closure. I hope if anything this can provide some information to them even if they don't find the poor little boy.
I agree Lyrica, but I hope they find his body so they have someplace to lay him and mourn him. Hope they find a measure of peace this time round.God Bless
Huge admiration to the police detectives who are working to resolve this tragic case.
Feels so bad for the parents. What a beautiful little boy. Friends of mine have kids around 4,5,6 years old. Ugh.
This happened when I was a teenager. I grew up in and still live in Seattle, which is a long long way from New York, but this little boy's face is burned into my consciousness. His image was everywhere. My heart aches for his parents.
I was only a year and a half older than Etan Patz at the time. I remember that campaign. It was, indeed, an odd thing for me a child to go in and get milk every morning and to have had his face on the carton--a daily reminder of It Could Happen To You.
usually, whenever there's a new news article about a missing kid from an old cold case, a rendering of what the kid looks like today also gets publish with the news article. IT's strange that nyc police would use a jackhammer to breakup the basement of a house to look for evidence and not publish a new rendering picture of the missing boy in 2012.
Etan Patz looks a hell of a lot like Jamie Lee Curtis.
Tragic event, to be sure, but I wonder ... who pays to restore a building back to its previous form after police have demolished sections of it in search for evidence of crimes? Does law enforcement come into some owner's business or dwelling, practically destroy the place, and walk away leaving the owner with a mess to repair or does the city/county/state pay to have it restored by a contractor? Maybe the owner's insurance company or a government insurance company pays for such an event. Probably, the taxpayers of the respective locale pays for it through the general fund of a government agency. Anyone know?
Maybe I am mistaken, but isn't the word "drywall" an uncountable noun?
You are correct. There is no such thing as "a drywall".
I can’t help but wonder: What does your semantic observation have to do with the loss of a little boy, where the whole scenario defies logic?
Merriam-Webster lists drywall as a noun. It is rarely used as a noun. But, who gives a crap? If you're not interested in the article don't post about it.
So, if the police come into my basement on the advice of a dog's sniffer and they rip it up with jackhammers and chainsaws but find nothing, who pays to fix the damage? Is the building owned by a person of interest in the case or an innocent third party?
sue the dog...
It seems they have found a few things, what those are we will no doubt hear about if they are clues concerning Etan. Otherwise, why are you concerned with who pays to replace the floor? Are sniffer dogs finding something of interest in your basement?
Many like to jump to conclusions.
In reality; (for all anyone really seems to know), the poor innocent unknowing little boy could have slipped into a faulty ajar manhole/sewer cover.
Sad, but, truly possible!
There are so many natural dangers in the inner city. I am amazed to see children, even today, run and play in the city streets, unattended by adult supervision.
I know: "Life is so busy,” you say; “who has the time?”
@11
I would think that the body of a victim of the sort of accident you describe would eventually be discovered. All sewer or street run-off drains lead to somewhere. It may take a while, but I think it would turn- up. I don't discount the possibility, just speculating also.
In those days most of the sewers dumped directly into a waterway, leading to the ocean. I will not speculate what might happen to such things in such a big world. Nevertheless, most likely never to be seen again.
I just don't think they will ever find anything. Sorry to say but it's been way to long. But I would kill that child molester just in case. If I was wrong, no great loss.
Are you freaking serious? Kill the child molester...just in case? OMG! I am simply speechless. Wait, let's kill you instead for being so ignorant, you know just in case! And I see you have two votes. Your's and your significant other's probably.
I agree with across the board executions for child molesters. Whether he killed Etan or no, he DID molest children and should be dead - at the very least imprisoned forever. Why do you display any sympathy for a molester?
I remember this as if it happened yesterday. I hope they are able to find evidence of Etan being there and can then prosecute the person responsible. This may allow the Patz family some peace to be able to know what happened to Etan and be able to give their son a proper burial. I can't imagine the pain that family has gone through for the last 33 years.
Seems like an awful lot of energy and money to waste on a "cold case"...unless they're absolutely sure. He was declared dead a very long time ago and a lot of good things did arise from this tragedy, I would think their parents could hang their hats on that. A child in my home town (Greeley, CO) vanished without a trace on Christmas Eve 1984, and by all accounts those parents resigned themselves to never seeing her again some time ago. Lie detection has advanced to being almost foolproof...if this person's story is in question why don't they use that instead of ripping up buildings?
There just has to come a time when we move on and deal with what's at hand now...
You have never lost a child have you Terry? Really easy to sit back and say such things when you do not know their pain.
Agreed, Angie. Most parents never "move on." Their child is frozen in time.
If they think Ramos did it, torture the bastard to get a confession. If not, let it be.. How many decades are they gonna waste money?
Can I expect to hear about the case opening again in 2023? 2057?
Enough is enough.
Yeah, that torture stuff works so well it is used nationwide now in all police investigations, NOT! You see torture never works because the person being tortured will tell you whatever they think you want to know or hear to make the torture stop.
Byog&k, You better pray "they" never suspect you of a heinous crime. or you might just get a dose of your own justice. In America it is against the law to do what you advocate!
Bill Clinton gave her a "stain of interest" if ya know what I mean.
They also found a stain of interest at Michael Jackson's house.
I also read they found another Stain of Interest on Father Flannigan's robe.
I like how so many people want to say things about the church,things you would never say to someones' face.You talk or act like a man,you get treated like one.
Can you imagine the scar that heals so slowly that it just rips right off again.It is too awful to think about.
He would be 39, possibly a father. Present at family gatherings with his own family, year after year. Think his parents can forget that? Ever?
#19
No.
MSNBC proofreaders must have been on break, again. It was either "on a dry wall" or "on drywall." Maybe someone else already pointed this out, but I swear I could do a better job proofreading with my eyes half closed.
..."on a piece of drywall..." "...on some drywall..." Yeah, I caught that too, and saw the earlier discussion, but I let it ride.
It's a tragedy that never stops for the family. First there is the guilt from letting that child go off alone on his first trek to school. Given that the place was pretty seedy then, what were they thinking? Can you imagine how they felt as the days lengthened and that small mistake became the only thing that mattered to that child? Personally, I hope that the truth is discovered for the family's sake, no matter how long it takes. Hug your babies, Folks.
What were they thinking? Holy cats....we ruled our neighborhood at that age....parents didn't have to be quite so frightened to allow their kids to play outdoors, and walk to the dime store. Now there's a pervert behind every bush!
It wasn't Etan’s first time going to school, it was his first time going alone. He had always been taken the 1-1/2 blocks to the spot where the school bus picked up local kids, and when the bus returned he was picked up by his parents or a sitter. On the day he disappeared he wanted to be a big boy and go it alone. On the way he planned to stop at a local shop and by a drink. He had a dollar in his hand. He knew the person in the shop. He knew the way to the bus stop. It was broad daylight in the early morning. He knew other people within this 1-1/2 blocks including Miller who was friendly to him and had given him money for doing some chores. He knew Ramos because Ramos was the down and out boyfriend of Etan's sitter. Etan and a couple of other kids from the area occasionally played in the basement which has just been torn up. What Etan's parents were thinking the day they let Etan go to school alone was that in this little 1-1/2 block area, which was so familiar and comfortable, their child could easily walk amongst acquaintances and neighborhood friends without fear or harm. That's what his parents were thinking. The shocking truth which this case revealed was that one could never ever have a sense of comfort in one’s own cozy 1-1/2 blocks because there is always the possibility that– even in the broad light of the early morning amongst lots of people coming and going – some evil self-centered twisted inhuman creep is waiting to do you or your loved ones harm, and more likely than not this person will not be a stranger but someone you know and otherwise trust. You can try and argue that Manhattan is the last place a child should be let out alone but statistics will prove you wrong about that. And, you will in fact find many more examples of people losing children on quiet rural roads.
I was a kid when this kid disappeared. It was the first time I had ever heard of a child abduction. I mean, parents warned me that it could happen and all but seeing this litttle boy's picture on the TV and seeing his poor, heartbroken mother crying on the news just frightened me and stayed with me. I've thought about this boy often over the years. Every time I had to learn to let my kids get a little more independent his image would flash through my mind. I hope they are able to give his poor parents some kind of closure. If nothing else, his story definitely raised awareness that this kind of thing can and does happen. Maybe that awareness has saved other children from the same fate.
Can they start with a polygraph test first?
Can they find anything like boy's clothing/shoes there?
Can a search dog be helpful for the search?
A forensic study for the whole house may be needed.
Maybe you should contact the NYPD and give them your suggestions. They probably haven't thought of doing any of these things.
The stain is probably blood. Whose blood is of course the question. Great thing is these days they can try and figure that out using up-to-date testing methods. What's wrong with that? As for no body being found -- that does not mean it wasn't there. Miller apparently asked the investigators when told that the cellar was being analyzed for human remains whether evidence of a body would show up if the body had been moved. That's a wild thing to say ... especially after all these years when he's been interviewed off and on about the situation and knows all about everyone's concerns. Ramos was a drifter at the time but maybe he did something to the boy and convinced Miller to help him hide the body temporarily --- which is why he would know it isn't there. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this gets resolved.
I cannot believe how many people I know who have outlived a child, most were accidental, suicide, then illness and last but not least murder. One of the drawbacks of living in a small community. Most cope better than I would have sorry to admit but to have a child disappear would be a hell I cannot imagine.