I have to agree that the lawyer is making the parents sound less than stellar. It's interesting they wanted an apology via web page or voicemail (both impersonal) but a private one or in person one, both considered more sincere, they rejected.

And then they responded not directly to those requests but via the media, where it's certainly possible Zimm, who was in jail, didn't hear them. And now they are complaining about sincerity? I know they're upset and all but this is kind of lame.

see if i ever Volunteer for protecting a community..the media has made a Circus of this, i don't feel this s/b National Attention..it's tragic for all involved, we're all sorry for the loss..that can never be brought anew..LET IT GO !!! Salem, Re-Lives; social insanity does NOTHING for No One...........

Hey Allie,

It all sounds so reasonable, you know? But there is a problem with your post. His lawyers advised him to NOT do anything like you suggest he could have done. Maybe it was good advice, or bad, but it was the advice he got. He didn't exactly follow the advice of his attorneys at the time, but that doesn't mean he should've rejected their suggestion about apologizing.

Anything Z says will be criticized by the "media" and the "hang him now" crowd who have no details other than what they want to believe. I'm happy that he is out on bail and I hope he doesn't have to defend himself again. The black panthers and al and jess (race baiters) will surely need to be watched.

uchursky, you criticize others for basing statements without knowing what happened, but you clearly have made up your mind against Zimmerman.

What I dont get is why Zimmerman would call the cops, and then hunt Trayvon down and murder him. Something is not clear to me, as it is to many people. Maybe something happened that scared the sh!t out of this guy. Cold blooded murder AFTER you told the cops to meet you....I am not totally convinced.

I don't understand, the man apologized, either accept it or live without it. He doesn't have to apologize to me or anyone else so why even mention the web page? the only persons that possibly deserved and apology were Martin's parents.....and they got one.

Also, just saying I am sorry for your loss, is not taking responsibility for what you have done. His words should have been I am sorry I killed your son. I am sorry for you loss are words from a sympathy card when someone dies and you have nothing to do with their death.

He's a Steelers fan . . . . . . . GUILTY!!

uchursky, you criticize others for basing statements without knowing what happened, but you clearly have made up your mind against Zimmerman.

That is not true at all. I never said or implied that he was guilty of murder or manslaughter. I do not know if he killed Treyvon in self defense-that is up for the jury to decide, and I am happy that the facts will have the chance to come out in a trial.

However, he took their son's life. He did so after following him for no reason. Even if everything he did was justified legally, which it very well may have been, some level of self reflection would lead him to realize, "I probably shouldn't have just started following a kid who was walking alone at night for no reason as it started something far larger than I intended."

There is no reason on earth to think that, had Zimmerman not followed him, that any encounter would have taken place with Treyvon. His bad choices led to the situation and, yes, a certain amount of remorse is appropriate.

Zim better start listening to his attorneys..unless he wants to be convicted of murder. But obivously his conscience is getting the best of him....nice to see he may actually have one.

@Insoc & Neil and any others who "think" along those same lines. Would you accept an "apology" for the killing if your own teenage son so long after his death, don't say you would because you would be lying. An apology will never bring him back. Zimmerman's attorney, unlike the last 2 clowns, is more sophisticated to have even given thought to putting Zimmerman on the stand just to apologize to Trayvon's parent's. Zimmerman is unsophisticated enough to have thought it might be a good idea but there is no excuse for his attorney for agreeing to that charade.

Jungle Jim: "What I dont get is why Zimmerman would call the cops, and then hunt Trayvon down and murder him. Something is not clear to me, as it is to many people. Maybe something happened that scared the sh!t out of this guy. Cold blooded murder AFTER you told the cops to meet you....I am not totally convinced."

According to the police, Zimmerman is a person who wanted to be a cop and didn't make the cut. On the phone call to the police you can even hear his anger towards Trayvon Martin. He appears to be an unstable. If I am afraid of someone, I am not going to chase them down. The cops told him not to pursue Trayvon, he chose to pursue him anyway. On the phone call to the cops he is heard saying "they always get away" so this shows that he was intent on Trayvon NOT getting away. He chose not to wait for the police because "they always get away". Zimmerman appears to be a very angry man. The news media reported Zimmerman also had to take anger management courses in 2005In 2005, he had to take anger management courses after he was accused of attacking an undercover officer who was trying to arrest Zimmerman's friend.

Excuse me, but how in the hell can Trayvon Martin's parents ever look bad? Who or what parent looks bad for standing up for justice when their child has been murdered?

I can not believe how far some of the poster here go to swing the conversation in directions that have no significance to the case what so ever.

What kind of person sees a mother/father in distress about the loss of their child and this person doubles down on hateful talk towards a family who is in morning of their teenage son, WOW where is your heart, where is your understanding, there must be someone in life that you love that would make you walk all the hatefulness back towards these parents.

I applaud this family for hold up and maintaining dignity through an ordeal where no dignity was shown to them or their family or the body of their teenage son.

We do not have to agree as we make our comments, but I think we all should be respectful a mother/father has lost the life of their son. They are experiencing a hurt, none of us ever want to experience or imagine.

First off those that say, He followed for no reason are wrong "Neighborhood watch" that is what they do look for suspiciousactivity. He most likely didn't expect any problem or confrontationby just following someone. Next the apology he can fill sorry for killing Trayvon and still not be in the wrong for doing it. When would have been the right time when there is a bounty on your head and the parents are doing nothing to help the situation? Next he hasn't been the one in front of the cameras every week. Asked for a chance to do it in private and they refused. I am sure it would be difficult to lose a child and talk with the person that took there life.

I can understand why the Martins might not accept the apology. Their son is dead and they absolutely don't want to believe he may have deserved it. However, I personally don't think the apology was meant to be disingenuous. It really hasn't been that long and this is the first time Zimmerman has really spoken at all in a public way.

Amen ryiann very well said.

It's interesting they wanted an apology via web page or voicemail (both impersonal) but a private one or in person one, both considered more sincere, they rejected.

It wasn't the method of delivery they objected to, it was the timing (which was plainly stated several times in the article). Zimmerman had ample opportunity to apologize in some way from the moment it happened, but waited until he was in court. And, yes, I know it's been reported that he asked the police to apologize for him. I think George Zimmerman has made quite a few bad decisions, starting with getting out of his car to follow Trayvon Martin. I don't believe the killing was racially motivated, but I do think he's guilty of manslaughter.

According to statements made at the Bail Hearing, Mr. Zimmerman was NOT allowed to make/initiate contact with the Martin family as he had been advised by both prior and current counsel.
Given the venom exhibited by supporters and quasi-supporters of the Martin family, the "terrorist group "New Black Panthers", the antagonists "The Very Reverands" Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson...this advice was very well heeded and with cause...
The "New Black Panther Party" actually broadcast their sole intent of posting a cash bounty of no less than $100K for the apprehension (dead or alive) of Mr. Zimmerman, without a benefit of trial. In other words, they were out for blood!
There were other 'groups' wanting swift and immediate justice, without benefit of trial...
The website solicitating financial support was for good cause, needing funds for his legal counsel, if needed. Instead, prior and current counsel are being provided 'pro bono'...at no cost to the family.

With Mr. Zimmerman out on bail, and with VERY stringent provisos, the safety of both him, his wife and other immediate family, are still in jeapordy.

I can guarantee that there will be those individuals, 'in the best interests of the Martin family' demanding the location(s) of Mr. Zimmerman...and NOT given said demanded, they will go to NO bounds taking out their revenge elsewhere and on others...

Martin, being an UNIDENTIFIED person (white, black, red or green) was trespassing on PRIVATE PROPERTY until he PROPERLY identified himself.

If, and we probably won't ever know, Martin assumed he didn't have to provide PROPER IDENTIFICATION to this STRANGER he was sadly mistaken, especially if Zimmerman told him who (what) he was.

The actual BLAME lies with Martin's father and his girlfriend (the homeowner) if Martin had not been advised, in advance, that he WOULD/COULD be subject to being stopped and questioned AND to properly identify himself.

I am really enjoying the fact that in his apology to Trayvon's parents in court, under oath George Zimmerman committed perjury and I sincerely hope charges will be brought against him for doing so.

Zimmerman stated, "I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am." However, in the initial call to 911 when asked how old the suspicious person (Trayvon) is Zimmerman clearly states, "late teens". Zimmerman is clearly a lying POS and this is the evidence to prove it.

Argue that, if you think you can. Sure wonder what else he has and is lying about.

Link:

http: /www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68871920/News/George-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

I don't believe his statement represented an apology, or any semblance of admisson of guilt. It was a simple statement that he is sorry for their loss, the death of their son. Everyone in America feels sorry for a family who has lost a son. Many of us have said the same words to friends and neighbors who lost loved ones, but that does not mean we felt we were responsible. I do not know YET if Zimmerman has anything to apologize for. Nonetheless, given the way the Martin family has already convicted him, I felt it was a very big thing for him to do.

Further. given the media coverage and the hatred and distrust the Martin parents have injected into the case, i have great concerns that there is anywhere in America where Zimmerman is going to get a fair trial by a jury who has not been influenced by the media coverage. It way be that O'Mara will be forced into seeking a non-jury trial and letting a judge decide the outcome. Poor judge--no matter what he decides there is going to be harshness, hatred and public outcry. Yet, glad they got an experienced, mature judge rather than that first one.

no matter what prompted the fight, killing another person has got to be a horrible feeling; all the years i was required to carry, never had to ever fire it; always dreaded the day i would have to do so, thank God it never came about, a good friend agent in a different division, went to church almost every morning and said a prayer, that he would not have to shoot or kill another person, top notch guy he was.

"uchursky, you criticize others for basing statements without knowing what happened, but you clearly have made up your mind against Zimmerman.

That is not true at all."

BS! That is so true! Check out his/her other posts. This one loves 2 attack any1 who doesn't agree with them.

"I never said or implied that he was guilty of murder or manslaughter. I do not know if he killed Treyvon in self defense-that is up for the jury to decide"

R U gonna deny writing this?:

"He followed their son for no reason which led to their son, who was unarmed, dying."

How do U know this? Were U there? Maybe the Florida police need 2 get your testimony-AS A WITNESS.

Stay tuned 4 more hate from uchursky.................

I think someone needs to buy Lawrence O'Donnell an egg scraper ..... because that "jounalist" (and yes, I use that word loosely) stated that Trayvon Martin was "executed". Then, of course, we have photographs of the back of George Zimmerman's head clearly showing a substantial amount of blood on the back of his head. Testimony from the photographer will likely concur with Zimmerman's statement and the prosecution's case will be down the toilet.

Tell us, Mr. O'Donnell, how did all that blood get on the back of his head ? Could it be that George Zimmerman WAS attacked by Trayvon Martin ?? Could it be that George Zimmerman was telling the truth ??? Let's see, one revealing picture, one witness and a vast host of libtards who are ready, willing and able to distort reality for political purposes.

One egg or two, Mr. O'Donnell ????????????????

When, exactly, is the right time to apologize to someone for killing their kid in self defense?

I guess the right time to apologize is when they (the parents) stop making money out of the whole situation instead of praying for their son to rest in peace.

Trayvon should of been warned by his parents that the neighborhood they were in had some robberies in the past, so he should of been careful and not went out at night!!

He is guilty and should of stayed in jail. He took the life of a child. Trevon was protecting himself when he fought back, any teenager would. If you see a grown man following you, your first intstinct is to protect yourself. He was told to leave Trevon alone and stop following, but he didn't. He chose his outcome, Trevon didn't. It makes me sick that so many people are defending this a** hole.. He KILLED A CHILD!!! HELLO!!! Does anyone think of that. It don't madder what he says or does, a child is 6 ft under cause of this man and he needs to pay the price. But instead they give him bail and now he can do what he wants. Eats whatever, watch movies, talk to his family... Does trevon get to do any of that?? No... I say lock him up and throw a way the key.. I would.

Now if it was a different race man, he would of been LOCKED UP THE SAME DAY, NO BAIL, NO MEDIA, NOTHING... Does anyone think of that?

I agree with Neil. We don't know what actually happened. If Zimmerman was assaulted and acted in self-defense, as he claims, then he doesn't owe the parents an apology. I wouldn't apologize for protecting myself.

That being said, I find Zimmerman's apology insincere. His apology wasn't, "I'm sorry--I had no other choice to save my life." It was, "I am sorry... I did not know how old he was... I did not know if he was armed or not." His apology makes it sound like this wasn't an act of self-defense so much as a mistake of profiling the kid as dangerous and acting too quickly with his gun. If this is the case, then the apology is insulting--especially since he's trying to avoid any punishment for his actions.

The timing of the apology extremely poor, making it look like he was only doing so to try and play to the cameras and influence the bail hearing. Also, to combine the apology with trying to make an excuse and justify his actions with the statement about thinking Martin was older and not knowing if he was armed only made it seem even that much more insincere. If this statement was reviewed by Zimmerman's lawyers and they knew what he was going to say, then these lawyers are either incompetent or just plain ignorant. The half hearted apology combined with making excuses did far more damage than good for Zimmerman's case.

Exactly, but the parents, their entourage, and the media have convicted Zimmerman in their minds. What is not clear are the facts of what happened...

Great characterization?

As if Zimmermann is in this issue... all by himself. A David against Goliath? Why you might say - in this circumstance, its like a lone kid facing a gun totting, grown man, who is nearly twice his age and weight... no stranger to police procedure, adapt at the efficient art of hand to hand combat, due to his training in police arts.

Such an unfair advantage - you might say?

No matter, the best products are manufactured to fit the conditions anyway. That's how machines work.

Serious? This poor man killed another human being and many of you seem to think he should say he is sorry for killing him and take responsibility. Are you nuts.One word could doom him. If you are his Mother , lets remember he has a wife and Mother, you see your son whom you believe to be a good man extend condolences. Thats all he did. This was not an apology this was an expression of condolences. Let him have his day in court. Pray the truth will come out. Theres all this talk about Travon's Mom, what about Zimmermans family? They did nothing yet they live in fear and under attack.

Please, it's no different than a condemed man on the gurney, awaiting his lethal dose, turns and say's sorry

really? what took so long Zimm? why now? why tell the Judge you want to say something to Him and turn and twist it like your story?

What for the trial, and this ambulance chaser Lawyer, what's to silence the media , but dang sure is everywhere he can be heard....sleeze

Tell us, Mr. O'Donnell, how did all that blood get on the back of his head ? Could it be that George Zimmerman WAS attacked by Trayvon Martin ?? Could it be that George Zimmerman was telling the truth ???

Jim, someone already posted here that he tripped and fell back on his head. That would mean Zimmerman wasn't telling the truth.

Someone else asked when the picture was taken, who's head is it anyway and was it a doctored photo?

It doesn't matter what happened. The right-wingers will always side against the black person.

The stark reality is that Zimmerman created the situation by following Martin and against the directive of the police. Zimmerman thought he was macho man armed with his gun and pretending he had the power of the police. The tragic thing is this man did have the power of life and death over someone. Instead of backing off a situation, he created the situation. Nothing more or less is needed. I don't blame Martin's parents for feeling as they do. From the beginning it has been Zimmerman trying to get out of owning his own actions. His pseudo apology was, unfortunately, no different.

think about it-3820192

"First off those that say, He followed for no reason are wrong "Neighborhood watch" that is what they do look for suspiciousactivity."

Neighborhood watch does NOT advocate following people or confronting them or otherwise getting in the middle of things. The mandate for NW members is to observe and report. He observed what he thought was suspicious behavior and he reported it to the police. That was the end of his NW activity. Everything else he did was against NW policy. Not to mention having a gun with him -- that is also against NW policy. Had he just stayed in his car and let the police handle it, Trayvon Martin would probably still be alive and George Zimmerman certainly would not be in trouble. I don't think that any "stand your ground" law should apply when you go looking for trouble. It seems to me that maybe Trayvon Martin was standing his ground against some strange man following him and not the other way around.

As for making an apology, anytime is a good time but you can't expect grieving people to accept it -- especially if they think it is selfserving as from a witness stand at a hearing. They may reasonably view it as trying to get on the good side of the judge. I thought it sounded sincere but then, I haven't lost a son to his gun.

Good 4 u GZ!!! Tough sh!t that TMs parents didnt want the apology! That is their prob, not urs. Im glad u got out on bail, hopefully AS and Rev J will learn to shut their big mouths and stop fueling the fire!!! They need to b arrested for inciting ppl the way they do. As far as TMs mom being classy thru all this.....R U F*CKIN SERIOUS????? All she cares abt is making $ off of this! SHE DIDNT EVEN KNOW HER SON WAS IN THE MORGUE FOR 3 DAYS!!!!!....Here, Here's ur mom of the yr award...loser!!!!! They should have done something abt his behavior looooong b4 it came to this!!! I am soooo sick of e1 having GZ convicted b4 anyone knows what happened. I saw the pics of the back of GZs head.....nuff said!!!!!

Innocent until proven guilty

No one knows what really happened-so all of the above comments about self defense or otherwise are not appropriate as the trial has not started yet. However, even if, in his mind, it was self defense, he has a lot to be sorry for. He followed their son for no reason....

WTF....how can someone type the above and NOT see their OWN hypocrisy? They start with the standard "no one really knows what happened" line. Then quickly lay doubt to GZ and the self defense argument ("even if in his mind..."). But somehow they KNOW GZ FOLLOWED Trayvon for no good reason. Give me a break.

fbikerchick said:

Zimmerman had ample opportunity to apologize in some way from the moment it happened, but waited until he was in court. And, yes, I know it's been reported that he asked the police to apologize for him.

It's been reported that he asked the police to convey his apologies.

He tried to call the family but hey didn't answer so he left a VM which was then relayed to the Martins' lawyer because Zimmerman was told by counsel not to have any contact with the family.

He even tried to call Prosecutor Corey, left a VM, which was then forwarded to the investigators because, again, he was told by counsel not to have any contact with any other entities surrounding the case.

Are you saying Zimmerman fell down twice on his back and onceon his face to break his nose? Maybe he grabbed Trayvons fist and pulled it to his own face! All this conjecture. It is crazy, all the people who think Zimmerman is guilty, will support that viewpoint no matter what. I, was sure Zimmerman should fry in the beginning, now, I personally think he used horrible judgment but will most likely walk. I dont know how many people have had their home or car broken into, but I have. Have I chased individuals out of my neighbors garages? yep. I understand he was frustrated but unless you have had that same feeling of anger and helplessness and want to do something, anything to make a change, do be so quick to judge. Trayvon was killed, I dont think he was murdered.

Wow PapaDave. What planet do you live on? A neighborhood watch person has absolutely NO authority to stop, question or detain ANY person. Also unless all the streets in the gated community are private and therefore paid for by the HOA there are still easements for the roads, gutters and sidewalks which are public property. Mr Martin had NO obligation to identify himself to anyone and if approached had EVERY right to ignore any request and head on his merry way. If the neighborhood watch person decided to see where he went and report that to the HOA or law enforcement that is their only recourse.

To apologize on the witness stand when you are seeking a special favor for yourself (freedom on bail) is not an apology. It is a self serving act. This family is still grieving the death of their son. Having lost a son. it is the most difficult buden any parent has to face. If the family was not ready to accept the apology in private at this time - they certainly would not be emotionally ready to accept it in a public courtroom. The Bible says there is a time and a place for everything. This was neither the time nor the place and Zimmerman's attorney is intelligent enough to have known that. That apology was intentional and the attorney knew what he was doing. It was not an attempt to make Trayvon's parents feel better about what happened. An apology is for the person to whom it is addressed - not for the benefit of the one making the apology.

The stark reality is that Zimmerman created the situation by following Martin and against the directive of the police.

Nice spin job. He didn't follow the ADVICE of a 911 dispatcher, is what you meant to say, right?

Zimmerman thought he was macho man armed with his gun and pretending he had the power of the police.

Yet all the evidence (that we know anyway), shows he kept his pistol in the holster UNTIL HE WAS ON HIS BACK BEING BEATEN.

Instead of backing off a situation, he created the situation.

More thug mentality. A topic that has not gotten much attention is how things passed the verbal stage and BECAME PHYSICAL. So far, it appears that Trayvon PLAYED the MAIN part in this altercation becoming a physical. Why couldn't Trayvon simply explain he was a visitor there after the initial confrontation with GZ?

All of their I'M SORRY'S are just SORRY!

I blame Zim's father for all of this. If he had not created this monster by continually getting this dude out of trouble, he would not have thought that he owns the world. He is violent and then because his father got his charges reduced to a misdemeanor from a felony for assaulting a cop, he was able to own a gun. Z is definitely a psychotic, wannabe cop. He beat up his fiance, an innocent woman. When people walk around with guns, they get a sense of superiority because they know they have the gun. Now you a have a psycho with a gun. Treyvon didn't have the gun, but he is being called a thug and is now the GUILTY one. Treyvon should have been able to walk to the corner store to buy a drink and candy without getting MURDERED. He thought he had rights, but unfortunately Psycho Z said 'NO'!!

No telling when that picture was taken, by the way. Even I know how to alter the time stamp of my phone & camera.

hmmm...it was raining when George stepped out of his vehicle; yet, in the photo showing his injury...his head, aside from the blood, is totally dry... and so is the sidewalk and grass...how is this possible?

I have a concrete sidewalk, and when it rains...there is a visible sheen. None in this photo.

Wouldn't the rain-soaked grass reflect light from the flash? Wouldn't raind drops be visible? Heck, his jacket is dry...if that really is his jacket, or if that really is George.

Wasn't he wearing a two-toned windbreaker in the SPD vid? The collar in this picture appears rigid and stitched at the top.

What style jacket was seen in the SPD vid and does it have the same type of stitching? Hard to tell because it seems like the video was blurred for that and other reasons.

abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

a kid died, and the parents are grieving the loss of that child. Apologizing, even if it was truly self-defense, is appropriate. Even if Zimmerman was completely justified...he can still feel sorry for their loss and his role in their grief.

Agreed. Yet look at the lynch mob mentality by the media, and Trayvon's attorney who are QUICK to CRITICIZE GZ for doing so.

BTW....anyone find it strange that we have Lawyers for the victim in addition to the Prosecution? You know why? So they (Trayvon's famly) can continue to play this out in the media. We've heard more from Trayvon's lawyers then anyone else. And they're NOT EVEN directly involved in the case. Wake up ppl.

Wow!! Must be nice to be freaking mind readers knowing EXACTLY what is in the hearts and minds of zimmerman and Martins parents!!! The bible also says judge not lest ye be judged, but a hell of a lot of people talking alot of crap about what "they Know" Zimmerman thinks, knows or believes!!!! Hypocrites!!!!

What planet do you live on? A neighborhood watch person has absolutely NO authority to stop, question or detain ANY person......Mr Martin had NO obligation to identify himself to anyone and if approached had EVERY right to ignore any request and head on his merry way.

"Head on his merry way"; to bad Trayvon didn't follow YOUR advice. He'd still be alive.

Your point is valid, however it goes both ways. Just bc GZ followed Trayvon, doesn't give TRAYVON the right to ambush & attack GZ.

Nice spin job. He didn't follow the ADVICE of a 911 dispatcher, is what you meant to say, right?

Or the rules of every Neighborhood Watch program... or common sense.

Yet all the evidence (that we know anyway), shows he kept his pistol in the holster UNTIL HE WAS ON HIS BACK BEING BEATEN.

What "evidence"? Oh... his word. Yes, you can always believe the word of a killer. They are nothing but honest, model citizens. Why even have any court cases? Let's just take the word of every single killer. I'm assuming you support Casey Anthony, and OJ Simpson too.

So far, it appears that Trayvon PLAYED the MAIN part in this altercation becoming a physical.

Evidence please?... Oh ya, forgot. You accept the word of a killer as concrete evidence. BTW... GZ started the altercation by approaching him in the first place. You go stalk some random person at night, approach them in a hostile manner, and see how that turns out for you.

Why couldn't Trayvon simply explain he was a visitor there after the initial confrontation with GZ?

No one is required to explain ANYTHING to a random, hostile stranger who claims to be part of some neighborhood watch. They have no authority, and killers, kidnappers, rapists, muggers, and every other crimminal can SAY they are neighborhood watch. This is why we tell children not to talk to strangers.

I can only assume YOU tell YOUR kids to talk to any strangers who SAYS they are "neighborhood watch", do what they say, and follow their instructions... right? LOL. Wonder how long it will take your kid to show up on a milk carton with that parenting.

Everybody keeps calling what he said an "apology". It was NOT an apology, it was condolences, like when you tell a person who have lost a loved one "I am sorry for your loss", it is very different.

Evidence please?... Oh ya, forgot. You accept the word of a killer as concrete evidence. BTW... GZ started the altercation by approaching him in the first place. You go stalk some random person at night, approach them in a hostile manner, and see how that turns out for you.

It's non stop with some of you. As for evidence...I only have the police report, an eye witness who saw Trayvon ON TOP of GZ and beating him, and yes GZ's word. It's all we (public) have.

Of course you are free to throw all THAT AWAY and believe whatever you want. Any evidence to support your claim that GZ "started the altercation"? Didn't think so. Do you have any evidence to support the idea that Trayvon was approached in hostile manner? Didn't think so. There's no evidence that GZ even got a punch in on Trayvon. Yet GZ has broken nose, and lacerations on head....as well as eye witness account of being on his back and beaten by Trayvon.

I agree DonKeehaawtee, the photo of "Zimmerman's head wound", appears suspicious,e.g., there is a very defined line at the top of the wound, it appears too straight edged, inconsistent with a fierce banging of the head on CONCRETE. There should be plenty of EXPERTS in the courtroom.

abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

Question to the general audience...from the proximity of 'George's head' to the backdrop...shouldn't the flash be bright enough to illuminate the entire background? Or could this be a case of digital shading? And is there a software that blurs pictures or is this just the result of a cheap camera?

@IndieParty....

Almost forgot. What I tell my children is don't be foolish. When confronted with someone who finds you suspicious....don't flip your hoody up and walk fast as if to get away. And if confronted don't resort to VIOLENCE unless you HAVE to. Knock on a neighbor's door....yell for help....or call 911. All things Trayvon COULD have done.

To the individual who says that Martin was trespassing on private property--by that logic, so was George Zimmerman. A person who is neighborhood watch is NOT a security person. Martin was originally on the sidewalk. He cut through an area (apparently there is a sidewalk through that area--Zimmerman said something to the effect--though I'm not sure) between houses. They would up in someone's back yard--a place where neither Martin nor Zimmerman was supposed to be. However, unless there is a posted "no trespassing" sign and there is no fence, then one cannot say that Martin was trespassing on private property.

The same thing is true of people who ring your doorbell--they can walk up your walkway, to your door, and ring your bell. This is not trespassing on private property. You have to enclose the area with a fence and put up a sign. The back area (particularly if it is open to sidewalks or to a common area) would be the same. Martin didn't do anything wrong--a gated neighborhood is not "private property" that a guest cannot walk through. In fact, given that it is a gated neighborhood, anyone a person sees in that neighborhood is supposed to have come through the gate and been approved--thus, the presumption ought to have been that Martin belonged in the neighborhood and had been cleared.

That Zimmerman waited until the hearing to offer his half-apology probably has more to do with his wanting a lower bail than anything else. He had plenty of opportunities to express sorrow for the parents--he could express that regardless of whether or not the son did something to cause the altercation.

But, no, the bloody head means nothing. Zimmerman could just as easily have slipped and fallen and bonked his head while running. There is no proof that things happened in the way and the order that Zimmerman claims. If the police did a poor job, however (and I believe that they did), then the evidence was gone by the time the later investigation was done, and Zimmerman will walk. Many guilty people walk free--they may be innocent in the eyes of the law, but they are "not guilty" for the rest of us.

As long as Zimmerman isn't granted immunity--and he might or might not be--then the Martin family can sue him into poverty even if he is found not guilty. They can sue the HOA and the neighborhood watch into insolvency. They can sue the police department and damage it severely. This will be a disincentive for other police departments to think that a black kid in a hoodie doesn't belong in a neighborhood (they didn't even go door-to-door to try and find out where he belonged--and this was a gated community where theoretically it should have been difficult for a random burglar to get in) and to fail to investigate all shootings of unarmed persons equally. They might not wind up with a dime, but at least they'll have the satisfaction of knowing that their son's death wasn't regarded as just another black kid walking in a neighborhood where he "didn't belong."

Martin's parents are stupid for escalating this whole thing. The trial, if there is one, will probably only make things worse for them emotionally and worse for the image of their dead son. The prosecution will do anything possible to tarnish Trayvon's image and make him look like a total thug and based on a lot of what I've read, it will not be all that difficult for them to do. Zimmerman's testimony already correlates with the evidence that has been presented thus far so it will probably hold up in court, which will basically confirm in front of the whole world that Trayvon died acting like a thug. The whole thing will make them look like vindictive people who raised a punk and couldn't come to terms with their failure as parents. I really don't get why they want to be put through all that. The @!$%#ty thing is Trayvon probably wasn't that bad of a kid but now all of his flaws will posthumously be paraded in front of the whole nation because of one @!$%#ty decision he made.

But, no, the bloody head means nothing. Zimmerman could just as easily have slipped and fallen and bonked his head while running. There is no proof that things happened in the way and the order that Zimmerman claims.

A complete FALSEHOOD and spin job attempt. Sorry but the police report and responding officer confirmed GZ's back was wet and stained from the grass. Oh yeah....PLUS THE EYE WITNESS who saw Trayvon on TOP of GZ and beating him.

You know....we could have VIDEO proof of the incident, and it still wouldn't suffice some ppl.

Naughtynumbernice said; Martin's parents are stupid for escalating this whole thing. The trial, if there is one, will probably only make things worse for them emotionally and worse for the image of their dead son. The prosecution will do anything possible to tarnish Trayvon's image and make him look like a total thug and based on a lot of what I've read, it will not be all that difficult for them to do.

I couldn't agree more. If there is a lesson here it's NOT to run to the media in times of personal grief. And I think you meant to say "The Defense will do anything to tarnish Trayvon's image"; which is right again. I feel sorry for Trayvon's parents....this is indeed sad. But they seem to be putting themselves through more anguish with their trial by media/public opinion approach.

MadMorrison

You can't call it self defense if you pursue your supposed 'attacker'. Zimmerman disregarded police orders and went after this boy. It was an idiotic thing to do, plain and simple.

Zimmerman disregarded police orders and went after this boy.

Well, he did disregard advice from a 911 dispatcher....NOT POLICE orders.

And he followed Trayvon. Nothing shows he "went after Trayvon". In fact it appears the opposite happened. GZ told 911 operator that he lost him and returned to his car to await the police. This is critical point of debate. When did Trayvon strike GZ? Per GZ (only witness to the initial punch), he was ambushed by Trayvon with a punch to the face...which dropped GZ to the ground.

Do you have any evidence to support the idea that Trayvon was approached in hostile manner? Didn't think so.

The recorded phone call with the 911 dispatcher indicates a heightened level of aggression. The various phrase: "These ***** always get away", as well as tone, indicate hostility. Thus, he was in an aggressive and hostile state of mind, at the time of the event.

Furthermore, any rational person would see that Travon was feeling threatened. When you are pursued at night, by a stranger you do not know, the natural human reaction is to feel threatened and in danger.

Why do Police announce themselves when entering a building? Why do Police announce themselves when pursuing a suspicious suspect? Why do Police identify themselves before EVERY encounter?

Because they know that the natural human reaction to being pursued by an unknown person is to feel threatened. This feeling of danger leads to the "flight or fight" response, in which a person will either flee or fight against this danger. Thus, police identify themselves to suppress this reaction, and let the suspect know that they are not an unknown threat but a figure of authority.

In this situation, GZ had ZERO authority, and it is not clear that he even identified himself. But it doesn't matter, because with ZERO authority he is simply an unknown man, approaching you at night, making a non-authoritative claim of being on some "neighborhood watch". Having no authority, and pursuing someone at night, would cause any rational person to feel threatened. This feeling of danger leads to the very predictable "flight or fight" response. In this case, TM chose to "fight" against the perceived threat of an unknown, hostile man approaching him.

I understand that all of this is far too complicated for someone like YOU to understand. So let me put it to you plainly. Do you have a daughter or wife? If she were walking home at night and a strange man slowly started to follow her in a car, then got out and followed her on foot... would she be scarred? Would she feel threatened? Frightened? Would she wonder if he was going to rape her? Mug her? Kill her? Why would she feel that way if a strange man was following her at night? It's not illegal to follow someone... so why would she feel that way?

I am not talking about her reaction, or what she does... but how she FEELS. What would be going through her head? Would she feel threatened?

The Defense will do anything to tarnish Trayvon's image

That's exactly what I meant. Thank you Raider.

I understand that all of this is far too complicated for someone like YOU to understand.

You had to go there huh? Time for true colors to shine through.

Do you have a daughter or wife? If she were walking home at night and a strange man slowly started to follow her in a car, then got out and followed her on foot... would she be scarred? Would she feel threatened? Frightened?

Probably. Who wouldn't?

I am not talking about her reaction, or what she does... but how she FEELS. What would be going through her head? Would she feel threatened?

So NOW it's about FEELINGS...NOT actions, huh? Listen, have you seen ANY video of this neighborhood? All anyone who felt threatened had to do was KNOCK on any number of doors within 20 feet. Or call 911 instead of your girlfriend. I'm smart enough to get your point. Too bad it flies in the face of Trayvon's actions.

In other words, I wouldn't advise my wife to ambush and attack her "stalker" in any SHAPE or FORM. They MIGHT have a gun and itchy trigger finger.

.

It's interesting they wanted an apology via web page or voicemail (both impersonal) but a private one or in person one, both considered more sincere, they rejected.

Clearly, it is not about where, so much as it is about when.

I am very big on apologizing, and accepting apologies - it's something that my parents were rather strict about, and something that has served me well in life as it often is what has lead to healed relations after a misunderstanding or bit of conflict.

That said, even I would have a problem with the man who shot and killed my son --for whatever reason, self defense or not-- remaining silent, clear up until his bond hearing - where it definitely benefits him to apologize!

In other words, while George Zimmerman was sitting at home, after the incident but before his legal trouble started, he could have given the family a sincere apology - he wouldn't even have had to admit 'guilt'... just an 'I am sorry for your loss, and the part I played in it.'

THAT would have seemed a lot more sincere and a lot less self serving.

Furthermore, were I a parent in a situation like this, and someone had thought to apologize in a timely manner and of their own free will -- especially before legal troubles started-- that individual might just find themselves with an unexpected ally if legal troubles ever did start. I would certainly be far more likely to belive that the person truly was sorry and that the 'apology' wasn't just theatre to help get them off the hook. And, I would have to --at the very least-- honor and respect that.

There is no honor with how Zimmerman apologized, so it is not worthy of the same level of respect.

It's interesting they wanted an apology via web page or voicemail (both impersonal) but a private one or in person one, both considered more sincere, they rejected. - Randy, message 1.11

Clearly, it is not about where, so much as it is about when.

In other words, I don't think they were actually suggesting that he should have apologized ON the website... just that, while he was busy doing all of these other things concerning the incident, he had never expressed any remorse.

I am very big on apologizing, and accepting apologies - it's something that my parents were rather strict about, and something that has served me well in life as it often is what has lead to healed relations after a misunderstanding or bit of conflict.

That said, even I would have a problem with the man who shot and killed my son --for whatever reason, self defense or not-- remaining silent, clear up until his bond hearing - where it definitely benefits him to apologize!

In other words, while George Zimmerman was sitting at home, after the incident but before his legal trouble started, he could have given the family a sincere apology - he wouldn't even have had to admit 'guilt'... just an 'I am sorry for your loss, and the part I played in it.'

THAT would have seemed a lot more sincere and a lot less self serving.

Furthermore, were I a parent in a situation like this, and someone had thought to apologize in a timely manner and of their own free will -- especially before legal troubles started-- that individual might just find themselves with an unexpected ally if legal troubles ever did start. I would certainly be far more likely to belive that the person truly was sorry and that the 'apology' wasn't just theatre to help get them off the hook. And, I would have to --at the very least-- honor and respect that.

There is no honor with how Zimmerman apologized, so it is not worthy of the same level of respect.

Probably. Who wouldn't?

Exactly... anyone being followed by a strange man at night would feel threatened.

So NOW it's about FEELINGS...NOT actions, huh?

Apparently I was right about you not understanding.

If you FEEL threatened, that would indicate the natural human reaction called "flight or fight". If you doubt me, take a few human psychology classes... this is very real, well documented, factual reaction that humans exhibit to threatening situations.

Travon reacted based on this psychological response. Should he have reacted that way? Well, he felt threatened. Hindsight is 20/20, so anyone can say what SHOULD have happened. But the fact is that he decided on the "fight" part of the "flight or fight" reaction, which falls under predictable human behavior. Thus, it can be concluded that a rational person would also decide between "fighting" or "flighting"... ironically, the basis for the stand your ground law.

The predictable human behavior of "flight or fight" would NOT have been triggered if Zimmerman had NOT pursued him in an aggressive manner (once again, 911 call indicates heightened levels of aggression and hostility). So, Zimmerman was the initial aggressor who triggered the "flight or fight" response in the person he was stalking. Thus, he is partially responsible for the outcome. This is why we have vigilante laws.

In other words, I wouldn't advise my wife to ambush and attack her "stalker" in any SHAPE or FORM.

What you "advise" her to do has no bearing on her human reaction to the situation. You can tell people what to do all day long, but until they are placed in that situation you do not know how they will respond. If she has suffered past trauma, she may even freeze up, or lash out. Most likely she would run, while fumbling with her phone in an attempt to call 911... the adrenaline and increased level of fear probably causing her hands to shake, making dialing difficult. Police may be 10 to 15 minutes out, which is plenty of time for an attacker to cause damage, or do whatever he intends.

This is why many women carry pepper spray. Because sometimes you need to trigger the "fight" portion of "flight of fight", and you can not rely on police to be there in 15 seconds. Other women take self defense classes... to FIGHT BACK.

The point is that you can "advise" all you want, doesn't mean that things will go as you foresee. Human behavior dictates that people will either flee or fight back. This is why police announce themselves... this is why you do not stalk random people at night (they may shoot you)... and this is why Travon allegedly attacked the person he felt threatened by (according to the word of a man looking at prison time).

This apology thing has somehow grown legs of its own and is now a whole subplot in this mess. Talk about "damned if you do and damned if you don't".

After this story made the national news, friends (some of whom are black for your race baiters out there) of GZ came forward and said he (GZ) was very saddened by the death of Trayvon. His attempt to apologize via lawyers or police was shot down.

I heard the apology and don't see this OBVIOUS insincerity that many have claimed. He looks and sounds scared and very aware of the seriousness of this. Taking a life is a lot to live with.

The reason he talked about age and if he thought he was armed was in response to questions the parents wanted to ask him. They asked the questions in an interview.

Nice psychological analysis of the situation Indie. I think people tend to forget with all of the media and politics in this that what this boils down to is 2 people and their actions ad reactions that night. This was a completely avoidable death.

Apparently I was right about you not understanding.

If you FEEL threatened, that would indicate the natural human reaction called "flight or fight". If you doubt me, take a few human psychology classes... this is very real, well documented, factual reaction that humans exhibit to threatening situations.

For the record I hold a BS in Psychology. Thanks for asking. Your knowledge and use of Fight or Flight are limited at best. First off it's FIGHT or Flight. Not the other way around like you referred to it. But that's another topic all together.

It's an argument that is meaningful WHEN the FLIGHT (aka run away) part is not applicable. When you are backed into a corner. In fact, the prevailing point is humans are hard wired to RUN FIRST if at all possible. So are you suggesting that this young football player couldn't RUN AWAY from GZ? Hardly.

You should never have brought that into the discussion. It just weakens your idea of Trayvon having to fight and/or defend himself. First he should have run (or took flight).

Appropriate time my backside. Zimmerman had plenty of time to apologize, going all the way back to the day after it happened and over the month he was never arrested. To only react at a bail hearing when it sounds if Martin's family made it clear they did not care to hear from him(they didn't say, "You murdered our son, shut the **** up!"). They said, "Now is not the time." There is nothing wrong with that and he was insincere to say the least.

I find it interesting that anyone who seems to think Zimmerman is innocent so strongly thinks the Martin family is doing something wrong at every turn. Really? So them calling for an investigation when the first one was cut short is wrong? How so? What if it was someone you loved and the district attorney decided to let him walk when the police wanted to recommend charging him? That is what happened and all the Martin family wanted was answers. I will agree Jackson and Sharpton getting involved makes little sense to me---why are they never seen speaking out against problems in black neighborhoods across the country? Why are they not showing young men in their communities better paths to take? White or black, brown, yellow, purple, green, creed, sexuality, gender makes no difference. Violence is universal and their efforts should be aimed everywhere, not just on slights because of race. Maybe they do that sort of thing but I doubt it because if they were, it would affect every single American and we would surely hear about it in the media---they cover far less meaningful stories.

I am a middle-class white male who grew up without much of a father, my mom raising us on food stamps and three jobs. I was often beat up because of a congenital condition where I walked with a limp. I never threw the first punch but I never lost. School administrators also believed I might be slow due to a lack of knowledge back then about my condition, but I graduated at the top of class. Point is...I got where I am because I pushed through the barriers placed in front of me. All of us have had hardships in our lives, some brought on by our own doing and others we were just unlucky.

That brings me to my current thoughts on this case.

Zimmerman. I don't know the man. Maybe he was a crazed vigilante. Maybe he was a concerned citizen where somehow, he thought he was doing a service to his community. Sure he had a domestic problem and other run-ins with the law but not anyone one of us is perfect every single second for our entire lives. Maybe he outright wanted Trayvon dead. Maybe he seriously was getting the beating of his life, maybe he deserved it and maybe he didn't.

Trayvon Martin. I never knew him either. Maybe he was a hard gangbanger. Maybe he was a confused kid trying to figure out his path as every teenager does(many of them rebellious and no different than his reported mistakes mind you). We can all act like we never stole anything, but if you grew up with siblings, chances are you took their things without asking, be it their candy stash or something they just bought that you really wanted. Maybe he was looking for things to steal that night. Maybe he was lost in a place where everything looks the same and he was just trying to get home. Maybe he threw the first punch because he was a jerk. Maybe he felt threatened by a strange man following him and legitimately was afraid for his well-being. Being white, I felt the same fear delivering pizzas in a part of town that was predominantly black. We all have fears of the unknown so to say Trayvon should have answered Zimmerman if asked or Zimmerman was neighborhood watch so Trayvon had nothing to worry about if he was innocent...really? Last I checked, people who have authority and trust in our society are just human and they do make mistakes. Sometimes, they are more dangerous because of their position in society---priests, crooked cops, the Secret Service anyone? Even more so, sometimes people pretend to be a person of authority for the sole purpose of bringing harm to others---a man dressed up as a cop attacking women??

The reason I am writing this is simple. Forget all the b.s. media coverage you have heard. Put yourself in the situation from both sides. I most definitely can. What if it was my brother who was killed after a confrontation for no apparent reason? I would want answers. On the other hand, what if it was that same brother on his way home from work thinking he saw someone doing something wrong and felt obligated to act? He has a family so I would hope he would do what was right.

I get both sides...and while I do think the racial separation over this case is disgusting because it shows a great deal of ignorance, hatred over nothing, and fear...I also am hoping that there are a lot more people out there like me. People who might actually wake up and think as the intelligent beings we should be. Who won't think on the basis of race or any other factor that separates us...but instead see it as a chance to close those gaps and come together...so events like this can be avoided. Instead of seeing Trayon's pictures where he looks "gangster" and declaring him a no-good waste because he was suspended a few times...try looking in your own lives at people around you who are not perfect. Help them get on a better path because you can. You're on a good path, yes? If not, fix your own problems rather than worrying about someone you think you know because you judged them. Instead of seeing Zimmerman for the monster he might be, try bettering yourself and the relationships with people who are different than you. That doesn't mean you have to be best buds with the black guy or the tree hugging hippy or the conservative or the democrat. It means learn about them. You'll find out they are a lot like you. They wake up in the morning and put pants on one leg at a time. They go to work to provide for their future and their families. Most dads hate their daughters boyfriends and will never refuse a cold beverage or good food. Most moms hope their kids never grow up and when they finally realize the kids have to, all they want is for the kids to succeed. When your neighbor takes a dump, goodness knows it stinks and his wife probably told him to light a match. His pipes bust, his basement floods, his wife gives him chores, he forgets her birthday...every home has bills to pay, every family has members where health concerns exist, every family wants more vacation time, etc. I could go on and on. The idea is...white, black, green, purple, libs, republicans, christian, not christian, for guns, against guns, too much money to count, or making no money, we're all the same even if we are different and that is never going to change. We can grow from it and have stronger communities where neighbors know their neighbors. Or we can let it keep dividing us, creating more hate while we hide in our houses afraid of the guy across the street who is a lot like us but we will never know that because we won't take the first step to find out.

Raider, depending on the person or even species, they may choose to fight rather than flee. Zimmermans position is just as weak on defense when he in fact started following him. Also to say a teenager has the same concepts of life and death situations as an adult is in fact not true. Yes they know right from wrong but they are far more prone to take risks an adult would not take which mitigates your argument that if he felt threatened he would have run.

Zimmermans position is just as weak on defense when he in fact started following him.

Agreed. I'm not attempting to make that defense for GZ. However once GZ is on his back and having his head pounded on the sidewalk...enter the FIGHT defense, bc he can't run.

Also to say a teenager has the same concepts of life and death situations as an adult is in fact not true. Yes they know right from wrong but they are far more prone to take risks an adult would not take which mitigates your argument that if he felt threatened he would have run.

Agreed again. This has MORE to do with ones character, and how they were raised. Any reasonable parent would advise their child to RUN WHENEVER possible. Not to fight...wouldn't you agree?

I would agree, yes however teenagers can be unpredictable so they may or may not follow that advice or even properly identify the danger they are putting themselves in by not running. I foresee a mistrial in this case because people are going into this with preconceived notions.

Several things bother me about Zimmermans story, and I think it just needs forensic experts to really tell but how in the less than a minute it took the neighbors to arrive on scene did Martin end up on the ground in a prone position with Zimmerman holding him down? Ultimately it will come down to who initiated the physical altercation and even if Trayvon did get the better of him, and break his nose, that doesn't mean he actually attacked GZ first.

The evidence should lead the investigation, the investigation should not have led the evidence and that is what happened at first unfortunately.

One thing Raider does not take into account is Trayvon's age. As adults with fullly developed brains when faced with a fight or flight situation we have a better ability at assimilating what is happening and thus much more likely to be more reasonable and less reactionary in our overall response to the situation confronting us. It is not reasonable at all to expect an immature teenager to act or react as a mature adult with life experiences to pull information from under their dome.

George Zimmerman as an adult and knowing Trayvon was a teenager, per the non-emergency call recording should have realized he was not dealing with someone on an equally emotional and mental level. Trayvon did the only thing he knew to do as an immature teenager, defend himself against an unknown aggressor.

We just talked about that and he did concede that teenagers may not react the same as an adult in that situation.

I would have liked to see them go for manslaughter in this case, I think like in the Casey Anthony case this may end up be an overreach that will have a jury reluctant to convict. GZ's actions were reckless and it as an avoidable situation, murder? That is much harder to prove.

Geroge Zimmer took the 'high ground' here. He really felt sorry that he had to kill Trayvon and is not happy the incident occured regardless of the fact of the legal trouble it has brought him.

The prosecutor, the media, and blogers, have already tried to take this apology and turn it into a confession. So, my hats off to George Zimmer for doing the right thing!

I wonder at George's attorney at times. But, I think he is trying to get the all the furror the media, good ol' boys, Al and Jessie and the masses have brought out against George to settle down; i.e., George's own damage control.

But, I think Trayvon's parents and their lawyer are playing this up so they can remain seen as the victim.

In light of Sybrina Fulton statements that she felt that Trayvon's death was an accident and then all of the damage control and now this just proves to me that this is a 'poor me' issue and I am so mistreated.

Thanks Jan. I was the one confronted with the whole Fight or Flight debate. Kind of sidetracked us.

There are numerous parents out there who lost a child bc the child felt compelled to stand up for themselves. Call it bravado, or just heat of the moment. Sometimes the child feels quite confident in their self defense abilities. As a parent I teach my children to always assume the worst in confrontations...meaning the other person might have a gun or knife.

I think we'd all agree that Trayvon would have been better off fleeing the scene.

I also agree that manslaughter charges seem more accurate. In fact I think GZ has a much better chance of getting off now bc prosecution must prove second degree. Very strange strategy.

This has MORE to do with ones character, and how they were raised

It has absolutely nothing to do with how one is raised. I have four children all raised the same and each one turned out different. One is a workaholic and strict disciplinarian, one is stuck up and self-centered though a hard worker and good employee, one has been in trouble with the law several times although generous to a fault, and one is an unemployed bum who mooches and lives off of the goodness of others except his family who are done with being burned by him.

You cannot fault the parents. You raise up a child in the best possible way you can, but in the end they will be the person they want to be no matter. And Trayvon was not done growing up yet into the person he would one day become.

I know got side-tracked by a phone call from pregnant daughter and forgot to hit post. Sorry about that.

Instead of enjoying her pregnancy worries about every little thing. LOL

Switchblade, I ask this of you, if that were your seventeen year old son dead on the street from a gun would you accept that as an accident? I ask that of everyone defending GZ and making snarky comments about Martins parents. The loss of a child is the single worst thing that can happen to a parent. I have yet to hear one conservative say they would have accepted the half investigation and sweeping under the rug that happened in this case if it were their child.

People really need to stop making this about politics, they need to stop making it about race. It is one 26 year old man, and a 17 year old teenager and an avoidable death. Murder will be hard to prove, I fear this is an overreach but don't think there is any honor in attacking the boys parents.

Apparently the jury does have the option to go to a lesser charge of manslaughter, in I agree it seems far more appropriate in this case. However, we haven't seen all the evidence so maybe the prosecution has something that will prove intent, its hard to say.

It has absolutely nothing to do with how one is raised.

Not sure what you're after. What is "it"? I (and many others) would argue that one's ability to make smart and safe decisions is character based. And has a LOT to do with how one is raised. But keep in mind that human psychology is NOT always predictable or a guarantee as to how one turns out, (to your point I believe with your 4 children). You do the best you can and stack the odds in favor of teaching good life lessons.

You cannot fault the parents.

And I haven't done that anywhere on here.

No one is required to explain ANYTHING to a random, hostile stranger who claims to be part of some neighborhood watch. They have no authority, and killers, kidnappers, rapists, muggers, and every other crimminal can SAY they are neighborhood watch. This is why we tell children not to talk to strangers.

I can only assume YOU tell YOUR kids to talk to any strangers who SAYS they are "neighborhood watch", do what they say, and follow their instructions... right? LOL. Wonder how long it will take your kid to show up on a milk carton with that parenting.

I would encourage my kid to run, especially if he's 6'1" and lean (by the way, at 17 and with that frame you're way past the 'don't talk to strangers' phase). I sure as hell wouldn't encourage them to physically assault a strange person (let alone while they're walking away), and would make it clear to them that unless the person has made physical contact, or clearly intends to and they have no chance of getting away that they will not engage in physical contact. That way they won't end up on a milk carton or inside a coffin.

You type pretty fast for someone who has a noose in one hand IndieParty

Raider...to agree with Jan would be to actually agree with him/her. Not state something entirely different and say you agree.

In other words, I believe Jan was saying...teenagers take risks because their understanding of life and death is not yet fully realized. Their choices therefore are inherently more risky---like fighting instead of running, or fighting instead of knocking on a door/calling 911. Facts do prove it.

I disagree with everything you have said as it pertains to that night and really don't feel like going there, because as much as you say the facts point to Zimmerman's innocence(because someone saw Trayvon on top of him hurting him before the shot was fired), how in the world does that sole "fact" if you want to call it one exude Zimmerman from any wrong doing beforehand? So the 911 dispatcher is not the law...regardless, he was advised not to follow Martin. Not just because he himself may be hurt but because you now have a case where no one but Zimmerman knows exactly what happened.

Unlike yourself, I read the police reports and didn't see a reason to let Zimmerman off. I saw more reason to look at the evidence and possibly issue an arrest.

To me, any intelligent neighborhood watch person(or an errand or on watch) would report said activity and keep themselves in a safe situation---say inside their car with the doors locked, ready to take off if anything bad was about to go down. If Zimmerman had just done that, none of this would have ever happened. He chose not to so and followed Martin, clearly getting out of his car. Even he listened to the dispatcher and returned to his vehicle immediately, what if Martin was already cornered and felt as though he had no other choice? You'll surely say he had the choice to run because he was a football player or something but seriously? Martin was almost an adult but he was still not one. To reference his size like it somehow makes him so wise and mentally aware of what was happening in a scary situation is ridiculous. No matter anyone's size, speed, strength, we all get frightened.

If you disagree with that, then you throw Zimmerman's self-defense claim entirely out the window. He was afraid for his life. He shot. How can he be afraid but somehow Martin was just a punk gangbanger wanna-be who threw a punch in a gun fight and he supposedly deserved to die? The very law that people are saying defends Zimmerman's actions would also defend Trayvon's if Zimmerman had been the unlucky one.

In fact, the prevailing point is humans are hard wired to RUN FIRST if at all possible. So are you suggesting that this young football player couldn't RUN AWAY from GZ?

Not all people run away first, everyone reacts differently. If you ACTUALLY had a degree in psychology, you would know this. But this is the internet, so I am not surprised.

Depending on the person, the setting, their upbringing, prior trauma, etc... people will react in different ways. YOU stated earlier...

Listen, have you seen ANY video of this neighborhood? All anyone who felt threatened had to do was KNOCK on any number of doors within 20 feet.

This suggests a dangerous environment, one where police have not maintained sufficient control. So he was in an environment that suggests lack of police response, and you are surprised he fought back (allegedly, as all of this is based on the word of a killer).

So he was in a dangerous environment, according to your thoughts on the neighborhood, being pursued by a man with a gun (which may or may not have been visible), and you are surprised by the resulting altercation? This is natural human behavior... an altercation which resulted from a man following another at night, with a hostile mind-set.

At a minimum, this is manslaughter... 2nd degree may be difficult to prove unless there is evidence we are unaware of.

But to suggest that someone can stalk someone else at night, and then KILL that person once they have triggered their fight or flight response, and they are guilt-less, is simply a get-out-of-jail free card for any murderer.

Two things stand out to me about many of the comments that have been made by those of you who are (already!) supporting George Zimmerman, and his claim of self defense...

First and foremost, some of you are commenting as if Trayvon Martin broke into George Zimmerman's home and threatened his family with a gun - and that GZ simply shot first to protect himself and his family from certain harm.

But, that's not what happened - the lines that were crossed that night are nowhere near that clear.

Secondly, some of you have questioned whether George Zimmerman even owes the family an apology, if this was self defense.

To that, I say... Even if it was self defense --in fact, *especially* if it was self defense!-- it would have been far more honorable of him to write a personal apology to the family, in a timely manner, than to wait to say a few words at his bond hearing!

It also would have been wise on his part to do so, because then there wouldn't be any of this heresay about who was asked to apologize for him, and when - there would be a tangible document that was both signed and dated. At which point, the ball would be solely in the family's court as to whether or not they would accept said apology, much as it is now, except that it would look far more sincere, and less like theatre for the benefit of the bond hearing.

Something I always hear from gun owners is that they don't WANT to have to use them on another human being, they'd just not hesitate to do so were the situation to call for it.

A person is either regretful for having to use their gun in self defense... or they are not at all regretful for doing so.

I wonder... In which category did George Zimmerman fall before his legal troubles started?

Jan-21270

I have yet to hear one conservative say they would have accepted the half investigation and sweeping under the rug that happened in this case if it were their child.

Jan,

I am a conservative and from the get-go I have not accepted the sloppy police/investigative work of the Sanford Police Department or any of the other divisions of law enforcement involved in this case.

I also live in Oklahoma where we have Castle doctrine similar to the Stand Your Ground Law in Florida. Ours is called the make My Day Law (Clint Eastwood anyone?) I truly believe the problem is in the interpretation of the law and not the law itself. Our DA in Oklahoma County has not hesitated to charge and arrest people who have used the law and the claim of self-defense when he feels that is not the case or there has been an excessive use of force in his opinion. He charged, arrested, and tried a pharmacy owner in the killing of a young man attempting to rob his pharmacy at gun point for the use of excessive force in the killing and he won a guilty verdict and life sentence. Just four days ago he charged and arrested the police chief of the small community of Del City which is within the Oklahoma County limits for the use of excessive force in the killing of a young man involved in a high-speed chase. After the chase ended in a crash in Oklahoma City the Del City police chief tackled the suspect, who was trying to flee and disarmed him, but the suspect got loose and started running from the scene again. The police chief then fired off four shots from his service weapon missing three times and the fourth time striking the suspect in the back which killed him.

We have had several instances of homeowners having to kill intruders breaking into their homes, but none have been prosecuted because they were within their rights to defend themselves in their homes against would be predators. As I stated the law itself is not really the problem it is the interpretation and application of the law which appears to be the problem.

Cool! It did not take long for the plastic head suck & @!$%# NRA Love Dolls to collapse my opinion. NOW he offers an apology that is a sham, it is fake and condescending! He opens a web page for getting money from the gun whores when his lawyer-ed up staff is acting for free and he is trying to go underground!! The young man's fate was sealed when he disobeyed, lets call it a request, or maybe a police order, not to leave the car, act alone. He cocked his gun, his attitude and his dick and was not going to stop untill they were discharged!

If he were to leave the vehicle in front of an officer of the Law, with gun in hand. Oh Oh Oh I wish that would have been the case. The Police would probably, for refusal to obey the request, order, shot him just as dead as the young man.

Come on Zimmerman, you are such a @!$%#ing man. MAN UP! Auto erotic/suicide yourself by sticking your ever so precious gun in your mouth and putting your ammo where your mouth is!!!!!

In other words, I believe Jan was saying...teenagers take risks because their understanding of life and death is not yet fully realized. Their choices therefore are inherently more risky---like fighting instead of running, or fighting instead of knocking on a door/calling 911. Facts do prove it.

You obviously haven't read my posts bc I agreed with this point. It's the whole immortality issue that is common among young ppl. They don't think much about their own death.

Unlike yourself, I read the police reports and didn't see a reason to let Zimmerman off. I saw more reason to look at the evidence and possibly issue an arrest.

Easy fireball. I HAVE READ THEM. And if you actually did, then you read where the officer verified the grass stains on GZ's back as well as eye witness that verified GZ's account of being on his back. The officer also verified the injuries to GZ's face and head. They were treated at the scene.

To me, any intelligent neighborhood watch person(or an errand or on watch) would report said activity and keep themselves in a safe situation

And I agree. I've said from the get go that if GZ was unarmed that night he would have stayed in his car like he was supposed to.

I think the real difference with me and you is that you seem to justify knocking someone to the ground and THEN getting atop of them and slamming their head into the concrete. That GZ was deserving of this bc he followed Trayvon. Sorry pal, but I don't think it's right or cool to get on top of a person who is on their back...stunned from a punch to the face and slam their head on concrete. I mean did GZ even get a punch in on Trayvon?

To reference his size like it somehow makes him so wise and mentally aware of what was happening in a scary situation is ridiculous. No matter anyone's size, speed, strength, we all get frightened.

Now you're cherry picking and putting words in my mouth. That comment was to address the specific argument of Fight or Flight that someone else brought up. The point is Trayvon could have EASILY gotten away from GZ, (or do you disagree with that?). In fact in the last call GZ says he LOST HIM. Why Trayvon choose not to run is a WHOLE new topic.

Realist...glad to hear it but many other conservatives have accepted the Sanford police response as a thorough, all by the book investigation. It is sad really because then I wonder, what if it was their family who was the victim? If it was, does that mean the police do a better job?

To me, the similar laws are all about how the are interpreted. What I can't understand is how anyone looking at this case cannot see the double standard if they think Zimmerman is right in his actions. What about Martin being afraid for his life and being able to defend it at all costs? Forget the bad police work, the skin colors, past run-ins with the law on both sides...why is one person allowed to defend themselves but the other---being followed by a man he doesn't know, in a place he only visited every few weeks---criticized because he was likely afraid and reacted?

Zimmerman's best apology would be to put his ammo where his mouth is!

Zimmerman was in over his head. Pursuing while carrying a gun is for the police who have the special training. Would you like a person who only knows how to fold airplanes and hang-glide and loves videos of flying airplanes to be your commercial airline pilot?

Raider...I did read your posts and it did not read that way to me. It read as though you were saying he should have known to run.

Again, grass stains, cuts on his head, etc...how does that verify at all that Zimmerman did not start said confrontation? Likewise, is it not plausible that Trayvon felt cornered and could not run? Or...because he was a teen and felt immortal felt he better fight back? If someone was following me, I surely would confront them and likely fight to save myself.

No, I would not condone knocking someone down then beating their head into the ground but that further justifies my stance that Zimmerman was likely in the wrong. If it was your family member being followed with no choice but to fight back, are you saying they should not? It also stands to reason as we have said...Trayvon was young. An adult would know better to run if possible or having to fight, doing so in a matter to get control, then stop. But again...fear is different for everyone. Fight or flight is based on so many other factors such as previous experiences. A girl who has been beaten by a man once, then attacked at a later date by a new person might very well not give any mercy at all.

I have no doubt Trayvon was likely faster...but in all fairness...I'm not black so I don't know how a black person might feel being followed by a stranger. He may have felt fighting was his only choice or fought because he had been dealt similar incidents in the past.

Sorry if I am passionate about this. Both sides have seriously made me feel ill at times with all the hate and silly ignorance. Some things you said I would disagree with but my passion was not directed at you. The reality is someone died and yes, I think Zimmerman should be held accountable because he escalated the entire thing. Law or not, to follow someone and confront them throws out the idea of self-defense. Say Zimmerman stayed in his car and Martin attacked him there, this is a different story. But once he got out? It is not like he was getting out to walk in his house. He got out to follow Martin...whoever started the fight after that is unknown but I do not see how it matters. He got out with a gun and if Martin attacked, he felt threatened. If Zimmerman attacked first, that was flat out murder.

Zimmerman's best apology would be to put his ammo where his mouth is!

Yeah, that was dumb the first time you said it.

many ppl have made the argument that the local PD messed this up. Maybe, but I have two points to that issue.

1)...Numerous investigators and DA's (including FBI & DOJ) have looked at this case. So it was highly scrutinized. Thus far no officials (FBI/DOJ) have presented any evidence of negligence on behalf of the police.

2)...What if turns out that the police DID HANDLE this correctly? I just don't think the PD have ANY vested interest in sabotaging their own investigation. I know it happens but I just think it's very rare and people have been too quick to blame the local PD.

Raider...I did read your posts and it did not read that way to me. It read as though you were saying he should have known to run.

Yeah, I get that. Again it was presented that way bc someone was making the Fight or Flight argument on Trayvon's behalf. Not to bore you with that topic but the basis of Fight or Flight is...if YOU TRULY FEAR for your life AND can run...you will instinctively run. Live to fight another day. This is what we see when gunman enter public places shooting. People haul ass. They don't stand their ground.

Now I agree that Trayvo had no idea that GZ was carrying a gun and therefore no idea of how at risk he was. That's why the fight or flight is not really applicable here. Again...I didn't bring it up, lol.

Sorry if I am passionate about this. Both sides have seriously made me feel ill at times with all the hate and silly ignorance. Some things you said I would disagree with but my passion was not directed at you. The reality is someone died and yes, I think Zimmerman should be held accountable because he escalated the entire thing.

I appreciate that. Me too. These conversations are always better in person. I'm on record as saying GZ should have been brought up on manslaughter charges a month ago. Let trail and jury sort thru the mess.

I've also said that his carrying a gun gave him a false sense of safety. Im VERY frustrated with the media and there lack of professional journalism in this case. This case has been presented with bias from the get go, and I also feel for the parents, who now have to endure the character defamation of their child. It's a mess.

1) After the publicity this case has received, if something is wrong with how the police handled things, maybe it is being kept under wraps so the whole thing is not thrown out in court.

2) It it turns out they did everything, so be it. You are right...such corruption is very rare. However, to gather all the evidence they need in a matter of hours to completely absolve Zimmerman of any wrong doing? I am sorry. With Zimmerman's father being a judge, conflicting witness statements about who was on top, the screams themselves being questioned by people, with the police not giving clear evidence as to why they made their choice, etc...it seems odd. Most people are held for a while, particularly if involved in a death as well as tested for alcohol and drugs. To my understanding Zimmerman was not, and if not, that was not a solid investigation.

Well, then we are mostly on the same page...because even if I think Zimmerman seems guilty of much more, I believe he should have been brought up on charges of manslaughter for sure. The only reason I think he is guilty of more? As a neighborhood watch member who constantly called 911, let alone possibly trying out for the force, he seemed like a guy concerned for his community...but that night, it sounded as if it had really gotten to him. If I am reporting someone, I'm answering the dispatcher and leaving the scene or staying in my car ready to flee and the sound of a pin drop. Call me a chicken, I want to live. Bottom line, I'm afraid. Not agitated. He was angry that people kept getting away and it showed quite intensely. For that reason, can I say the events happened as he claimed? They may have but his attitude makes me think twice.

Also, what about his reactions on the police video? Am I the only one who finds his lack of emotion odd? No, I am not saying his lack of emotion must mean he is a killer. I am saying...if that is me, and the events happened as he says, I'm bothered that I just killed another human. I am bothered that I was just in a fight no less.

Maple12string-your post is just disgusting. Why the need to try to interpret this as some kind of twisted sexual fantasy? God help anyone that ever has you sitting on a jury judging them!

"Wow!! Must be nice to be freaking mind readers knowing EXACTLY what is in the hearts and minds of zimmerman and Martins parents!!! The bible also says judge not lest ye be judged, but a hell of a lot of people talking alot of crap about what "they Know" Zimmerman thinks, knows or believes!!!!"

"Maple12string-your post is just disgusting. Why the need to try to interpret this as some kind of twisted sexual fantasy? God help anyone that ever has you sitting on a jury judging them!"

WOW! It would just B 2 much 4 U 2 post something other than hate, wouldn't it?

I think part of the parent's problem with accepting the apology when it came was that Z waited until it would garner what he thought would be a good public opinion and possibly pity for himself. I would have been more likely to accept an apology in email form or on the phone than at a publicly held bail hearing too. The way he did this was to pander to the public so that we would feel he was remorseful, and honestly I don't think he is sorry for what he did, I think he is sorry that he is facing charges. He does have an extensive violent past, just because charges get lessened doesn't mean they didn't happen it just means he plea bargained or daddy did it for him. Small time drug dealers do it all the time by rolling on bigger dealers, doesn't mean they didn't commit the original crime just means they had something that the DA wanted more. Z had been charged with assaulting an officer, domestic violence, DUI, and other charges, and we haven't had a chance to hear what kind of school record he had. Why not? Everyone is focusing on what a child was kicked out of school for, but what kind of kid was Z? I would like to know.

You don't say post #1.129 What about anything in those posts is hate??? those were responses to some pretty nasty and out there comments. So if my replies are HATE you must agree with the initial comments. Did I call anyone nasty names, make remarks that have no factual backing, etc..?? NO! CAlled people out for putting words into the hearts and minds of others for no good reaon with no proof to support their speculations. IF you think thats HATE go have a good longtalk with your pastor and see what he/she says abaout the comments I addressed.

And you KNOW this how? You put a sock in it, with your prejudgement before all the facts come out. I'm not saying he killed him with cause, or without cause. I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, except a 17 yr old is dead.

Until the facts come out, any ranting about him being innocent or guilty of murder is just that, STUPID RANTING!

I think it's funny how Trayvon Martin get's taller each time you all post about him, and that the "grilled-teeth" were only visible in one photo you saw online. Next week he'll be 7"0, a Cript member, and have a rap sheet a mile long. LOL! Still doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman had no cause to follow a young man he didn't know, or to carry a gun (with hollow point bullets no less) while on Neighborhood Watch, but you say whatever you need to do to justify this killing in your mind.

westbury64,

Exactly what I've been saying from the begining! Hardly a child!

Here we go again Westbury64, so in your imaginary world anyone 6'3' can be accused, then stalked then shot. Anyone with tattoos can be accused, stalked then shot. Anyone with "grilled teeth" can be accused, stalked , then shot. Under your "grilled teeth scenario, I suppose my 54 Buick qualifies to be accused, stalked, then shot.

There is no time ever...to apologize for killing someones son. There is no excuse, non whatsoever to have killed Trayvon. Failed as a boyfriend, failed as a neighborhood watch person, failed to become a cop, failed when he assaulted cop, so he had to prove to everyone they were wrong. Zimmerman was wrong...dead wrong to believe they were wrong, and dead wrong to believe an apology would be meaningful.

A "child " is 6 or 8 ..this was a Young Man... Not a Child. I am a Male and was 17 once....Never did I consider myself a child.

westbury,

Perhaps there was never a previous confrontation, because Zimmerman didn't have his gun handy those other times. Although I am sure that's something that hasn't occured to you previously, it is something that must be taken into consideration.

Zane,

Keep something in mind. While you might not have considered yourself a child at the age of 17, you can bet your parents...particularly your mother...considered you to be just that.

So having a Tattoo and a gold grill means your up to no good in your eyes? Yall keep talking about how tall this child was. Why are you so frightened of Black male youth? This child was innocent of doing anything wrong. If anyone had the right to stand their ground, it was Trayvon. Zimmerman went after him. Wake the hell up!

No, being 6'3" and tattoed doesn't mean you should be shot. But when people like you assume that Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation it is important to note that Zimmerman is a 5'9" wannabe and Martin was over 6" tall and NOT some little 12 year old kid eating skittles. We have to decide..is itlikely that Zimmerman would have physically confronted someone so much bigger than him... not likely in my opinion. Especially since there is NO evidence that he ever physically confronted any of the other people he called 911 about.

You just don't want to admit the obvious...the story that Zimmerman tells seems far more likely than assuming Zimmerman just walked up to him and shot him for no reason.

By the way.....if Zimmerman WANTED to shoot him...why did he call the police and give his name and location before doing it?????

It is also important to not that a 9mm pistol with hollow point bullets makes the shortest man feel taller, and in some cases omnipotent. Seems to me that it is you westbury, who is having trouble with the obvious! LOL!

If the gun made him feel bigger than he was...why would he not just hold him at gunpoint??? Why would there be a physical altercation with Martin on top of Zimmerman??? Facts are very inconvenient to the race peddlers.

I'm not commenting on guilty or not guilty.However Zimmerman has a history of being confrontational,so to say that he would not confront someone bigger than himself has been proven to be an incorrect assumption.

westbury64 "We have to decide", no we have no need to decide anything in this case, it is up to the courts to determine what occured that night. We all need to wait before we pass judgement on anyone. I would agree that Zimmerman did not appear at the police station to have any wounds head or nose. We have no idea the physical condition of Trayvon at the time of his death so we have nothing to base judgement on except our own imaginations. If we need to do anything it is let the system work this out.

On the comment on the hollow point bullets... That is a non-issue meant to stir up more fervor. Almost all police departments and responsible gun owners use hollow points for defense because the bullets are designed to stop in the target - and not pass through to a secondary target (innocent bystander). Even politically correct NYC went to hollow points in 1999 for this reason - the last major police department to do so.

bsbfankaren Your parents always think of you as a child. Whether Trayvon was an adult or not could easily be debated but one thing for sure is that he was not a child.

Secondly if you truly believe that he wasn't carrying a gun any of those other times you are simply a fool. Guys like Zimmerman always carry a gun.

Here's what I see here, a guy trying to protect his neighborhood sees a suspicious chartacter, he confronts that person, that person gets snotty with him and assaults or threatens him and is in return killed in self defense. I see a clear cut case of self defense that never should have gotten this far, but I guess the courts wouldn't want to be called racist like this man was so instead they prosecute to placate the family. This is a farce. Here's another funny thing, anyone else ever notice that when some one gets killed in self defense the family always jump up and say how inocent and what a good kid they were? I want to know how good of a kid was their son really because this is always the case. And of course the parents would only use the media to speak, a private appology doesn't get a man convicted. They're using the media to hang this man before he can even go to trial, they're tainting the jury pool and trying to remove any chance this man would have at a fair trial. Maybe they need to realize that this man didn't go out that night and say, "you know what, I'm gonna shoot a black kid tonight" and they're son may not have been the little angel they want to paint him as. If they were actually interested in justice or peace of any kind, they wouldn't have their own attorney, they wouldn't be using the media to taint the jury pool, ot using the media to pressure the judicial system, they would let this incident take it's course. They not out for healing and resolution, they just want some form of revenge. Based on how they are acting, i'm pretty sure their kid had the same sense of self-entitlement because of the color of his skin and I'm sure that's what got him killed. Racism is racism, skin color doesn't matter, this kid's parents are the racists because all they see is a whiteman killed their black son. If it was a black man that shot him would it have gotten this far? I don't think so.

"I would agree that Zimmerman did not appear at the police station to have any wounds head or nose."

It's amazing how people who WANT to miss something find a way to miss it. Yes, I saw the original lousy photos that didn't show any blood. But then I saw the same, but zoomed and enhanced photos, which clearly did. That was when I understood why the police accepted Zimmerman's story and initially let him go (don't get me wrong...I think that was a mistake...they should never release ANYBODY, no matter how obvious their story seems, until a thorough investigation is completed). That's when I came to the conclusion that Zimmerman may have been telling the truth, and if he was, then the shooting was justified. Now the major question remains...IF the evidence at the trial to come shows that Zimmerman is telling the truth, will Treyvon's parents and the black community accept the evidence or simply call it a lie? (like people who are so opinionated about something tend to do when they're proved wrong)

Where exactly does Florida Statute permit a human being to kill one over another human being appearance/size? The questions you need to ask yourself are the ones we have answers too.

• Did Zimm witness Trayvon commit a crime or appear to committ a crime? No
• Did Zimm tell police he was armed during 911 call? No
• Did Zimm heed warning to not approach/follow Trayvon? No
• Did Zimm have the proper authority to apprehend or detain Trayvon till police arrived if no crime had been committed? No
• Did Zimm provoke a altercation that could have been avoided? Yes
• And can the provoker claim self defense? Per the Florida Statutes, maybe if it wasn't caused by provokers own neglect.

Then look up Florida 2nd degree murder or Voluntary/involuntary Manslaughter and ask yourself if Zimmerman could have been charged with a crime that evening? Yes

The important questions none of us have the answers to. Did Zimmerman try detaining Trayvon physically till police arrived? Did Zimmerman properly identify himself before altercation? Until we have the answer to those questions, no one really has a clue on whom was justified to do what.

"The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:

When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent."

"Florida state laws also establish involuntary manslaughter if the prosecutor shows that the defendant used excessive force during self-defense or the defense of another person. The prosecution and defense can look at the facts and circumstances of the killing to determine whether the defendant reasonably believed that self-defense was necessary; if not necessary, the state might proceed with an involuntary manslaughter charge."

To many questions for the media jury. The bond hearing judge determines probable cause for arrest. So I'm assuming there's a lot more going on than we have knowledge of. Do I feel that the court is acting on fear of community unrest. No. I believe the investigating officer that wanted to arrest Zimmerman the evening of the death had probable cause. And this circus would have never occurred if the persons involved would have properly followed through. Their neglect obvious in handling the case.

Was Zimmerman utilizing usual ordinary caution by approaching Trayvon?

So Trayvon is heading down the wrong path since he got in trouble in school, but George isn't but he got in trouble in school and out of it? (He went to school here in Manassas, VA!) How did Zimmerman know that Martin was suspended from school? He asked that? Did you know that Zimmerman was treated for anger management? NO! It came out during his bail hearing. See you just turned what you want racial and then you stick it to a whole race. You even used the O.J. Simpson case. Funny how people are quick to belittle us (Blacks) about the O.J. case, but when he was arrested almost 14 years later, who was cheering? How many times did you see Daddy Goldman parading around?Talking about holding a grudge. That case wasn't about race or racism, but everytime you heard it on the tv or radio, you dang sure knew Nicole and Ron were White. What was Zimmerman contributing to society? Neighborhood watch? You have "jumped" to conclusions like everyone else in this case. But those were facts I stated

westbury64 is a truth speaker

Conrad-You aren't very well infromed. The anger mangement course he took has been out for weeks not at the bail hearing!!!!! You either haven't been reading all the news reports or you just choose to ignore facts and twist them to your own agenda. Come back and talk about it when you get factual information that has ALREADY been put out there!!!

If you are not being sarcastic, then you are definitely pathetic!

Well, Trayvon should have been grounded over his 3 suspensions from school. And what kind of idiot does it take to get that if he had a baggy with residue from pot then the pot that was is in it has been smoked!! What parents is not concerned when their kids gets busted for having dope regardless of what is left in the bag!!! What parent is not concerned when their kid is found to have a bunch of female jewerly that doens't belong to him + tools to break into things. IF dad had grounded Trayvon, kept him home and been home with him that night then none of this would have happened. How about dad taking some parental responsibility??? He was not in Miami with mom becasue she couldn't control his behavior and apparently dad didn't take the time to!!

Children with Skittles and Iced Tea are a threat to who?

WOW ??????????

I'm sorry I got caught stalking and killing a child armed with skittles.

Seriously.... so much hate and racism on here, it's ridiculous. You know damn well none of this would have happened if Z-man wasn't so hell-bent on stalking someone who fit his "profile". Yeah, he was so "good at his job" Lion, that he killed an unarmed man. I don't care if he was getting the crap beat out of him, he should NOT have been following someone like he was a cop, because he was NOT a cop, and should NOT have had a gun due to previous altercations with the law. Everything he did was WRONG, and all of you know this.... so stop trying to excuse a killer simply because you don't like how Martin looks.

I am interested in hearing the FACTS of the case. It was a horrible incident but if someone is slamming the back of my head into the concrete and I have a gun. Pow! Clean up on aisle 3.

stop trying to excuse a killer simply because you don't like how Martin looks.

I think Martin was a handsome young man. That doesn't excuse him for brutally assaulting someone though.

Then Lion why don't you wait to hear the facts that come out in trial. Do you think Zimmerman would have actually told the police that he got out of his vehicle to stalk and kill a stranger for walking through his neighborhood? Get real!

Maybe Zimmerman banged his own head on the concrete after he realized he had shot an unarmed kid. I've seen nose bleeds that looked worse than the back of his head.

Lion why don't you wait to hear the facts that come out in trial.

Why has this media lynch mob and their sheep selectively ignored facts that have come out already?

Maybe Zimmerman banged his own head on the concrete after he realized he had shot an unarmed kid.

I think the eyewitness who say Martin assailing Zimmerman might have mentioned that. Do you have any more speculative fantasies to support your bias?

Bmilleroh...do you really think a neighborhood watch volunteer got out of his car to shoot a 17 year old in cold blood? Get real.

Fact...

am interested in hearing the FACTS of the case. It was a horrible incident but if someone is slamming the back of my head into the concrete and I have a gun. Pow! Clean up on aisle 3.

Don't play Cop...

Beowulf...if you have something to say, do your best to put together a coherent statement so people can laugh at you.

@Lion in Houston

"I am sorry for killing a guy who looked like a criminal and was on top of me while slamming my head into the concrete. I am also sorry for being a little too good at my job as a neighborhood watch volunteer."

He was not being "a little too good" at being a Neighborhood Watch volunteer. The NW policy is to observe and report not to follow and confront. How would you feel if you were walking home from the store and some guy followed you, first in a vehicle and then left the vehicle and followed on foot. I'd be damned scared, I know that. Feeling very threatened, I might even try to fight back. George Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle (NW policy) and none of this would have occurred.

"Fools better recognize. Best leave the hoodies and gold teeth at the crib." And that remark is just stupid and wrong!

How was Mr. Zimmerman to "observe" if Trayvon was MOVING ? He followed him at a distance. He observed. He called 911. For everything else, there is the creative imagination of libtards everywhere .... those who were not there, but will try and convince us they "KNOW" what happened.

Then there are the graphic pictures of Zimmerman's bloody head that many refuse to recognize ..... or they want to rationalize because they suffer from Delusions of Adequacy.

Jim,

Please stop bringing facts into this. It is inconvenient for those who just want to see a hispanic man go down for killing a completely innocent, 8 year old (if you look at the pictures the media wants you to see). The same people who claim Zimmerman is white would call him hispanic if he had won the Nobel Prize.