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Subscribe to RSSAlthough Chief Bill Lee offered to leave his post, a majority of Sanford's city commissioners rejected his resignation. NBC's Kerry Sanders reports.
The police chief in charge when unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in Sanford, Fla., offered to leave his post on Monday, but a majority of city commissioners rejected the resignation, with some characterizing it as coming from political pressure.
Chief Bill Lee Jr. came under fire for not making an immediate arrest after the shooting death of Martin, 17, by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman on Feb. 26.
Zimmerman was questioned by police, but not arrested or charged with any crime after following Martin, whom he apparently thought looked suspicious walking through the gated Florida community. Zimmerman said he acted in self-defense.
At a press conference shortly thereafter, Lee told reporters that there was no arrest because they did not have enough evidence at that time.
The case attracted attention beyond Florida and ignited a national debate on race and justice after Martin's parents obtained 911 call recordings from the day their son was killed and which they believe show that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense.
Lee stepped down "temporarily" in March after a vote of no-confidence by the commission.
Zimmerman later was arrested and is now charged with second-degree murder.
Only City Manager Norton Bonaparte was in a position to fire Lee or ask for his resignation, which he apparently requested after determining that outside assessments by the Department of Justice or other parties would take many months. By resigning, Lee would be eligible for a severance package.
At the commissioners' meeting Monday, the members considered Bonaparte's resolution to accept Lee's resignation.
Some of the commission members said Bonaparte's resolution to accept Lee's resignation was a surprise, and a capitulation to outside pressures on Bonaparte.
"This was resign, or else, folks," said Randy Jones, characterizing the resignation as forced by Bonaparte. "It is not the Sanford residents who created this firestorm. It was brought in from the outside. We all know it."
Lee's supporters on the Sanford City Commission on Monday said they would not accept the resignation of Lee, and characterized it as purely political.
"You are eliminating a man who did nothing wrong," said Commissioner Patty Mahany, who has described Lee as a scapegoat in the furor over the case. "Chief Lee deserves a better than this."
The commission ultimately rejected Bonaparte's resolution to accept the resignation over Lee by 3-2 vote.
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Leave a Comment:
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Seriously, Mike?! Is it that important that you get your comment displayed at the top?
For those of you who might not know, Mike's original post was "xxxxxxxxxx", which he then quickly changed to just "x". Either it's random spam, or more likely he did that just as a placeholder so he could get his comment on top. He's probably typing his actual comment as an edit right now.
Mike, I've reported your comment. I would urge the rest of you to do the same in order to discourage this type of abuse. It's tacky and not fair to those of us who follow the rules.
Wow, still an x. So you didn't even have anything to say; you just wanted your name to appear at the top?!
Seriously, please don't spam these threads with such nonsense. This is a serious topic and spam like that makes it more difficult for people to find the real comments.
You reported an "X"..........ok not really that big of a deal.
lmao!! omg kris grow up! if you want "fair" go back to grade school. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
What part of the man came at george, punched him in the face, beat his head on the pavement and got his ass shot off do you people not understand.Come at me or mine and you will get the same.
It's not "purely political." His officers lied about Zimmerman's injuries and simply took him at his word when he said it was self-defense. Instead of initiating an investigation, Chief Lee aided in the cover-up, saying that the investigation was closed and that the officers acted properly. Maybe it was racism. Maybe it was just poor judgement. Either way, you can't screw-up this badly and expect to retain your job.
If we hadn't spoken up about this, Martin would have been just another silent casualty and his killer would be walking the streets a free man. Fortunately, public pressure-- as well as pressure from the feds-- jolted this case back on the right track. Zimmerman will now have to answer for his crimes before a judge and jury of his peers. Even if he's ultimately acquitted on the grounds of that ridiculous "shoot first, ask questions later" law, he'll at least have had to answer for what happened and go through a public trial.
Chief Lee doesn't necessarily strike me as a bad person, but he messed this up horribly. He chose to defend his officers instead of initiating proper oversight, and for that reason alone he needed to resign.
How did the officers lie about Zimmerman's injuries?
The prosecutor, at the bail hearing, indicated that they did have evidence of the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head and medical records confirming a broken nose. Did the officers claim more injuries, or no injuries?
The officers reported that Zimmerman suffered massive injuries and was covered in blood. The video evidence now shows that none of this is true. In the video, we can clearly see that his nose was not in any way injured and the back of his head was just fine (the so-called "digitally enhanced" version released by a website has been called into question as likely being a photo-editing job).
While we don't know the details of the prosecutions' case, they would not be proceeding if the evidence showed Zimmerman had been injured by Martin in such a fashion. Some experts are suggesting that the records the prosecution referenced pertain to wounds that were self-inflicted by Zimmerman after the fact.
So yes, the officers lied about Zimmerman's injuries. There's zero question on that. Video evidence does not lie. People do.
Of course his injuries are faked, because there is no way he could have cleaned up before being seen on a grained surveillance tape right? You are just another letting the media hand you a verdict without analyzing all the facts. There are plenty of questions on all aspects of the trial, and if you think you have viewed all the evidence in hand, then you are quite delusional.
Just keeping making your opinions based on what the media feeds you to create as much sensationalism as possible and you might just get a guest spot on Nancy Grace.
@DarkShadow1701
I doubt even Nancy Grace would accept purely media based opinions.
I say let the trial go forward and let ALL the evidence in. The Feds will be closely watching this notorious trial and will no doubt intervene if justice is not served by a fair trial. This case is loaded with inconsistencies and it is my hope that the entire nation will have the feeling that Zimmerman got a fair trial and that Trayvon's death will caution would be stalker shooters to beware. It is sort of comical for Z to feel like he was the victim when he was the aggressor and he is the one who shot this harmless kid dead. But I lived in the South, where I was on a jury and had to call the bailiff when some juror used the "N" word. Sadly, Racism is still alive and well in some areas. Un-Godly for certain, but sadly it still exists.
@DarkShawdow - the paramedics nor the police clean you up before they take you to jail. If you are bloody when you are arrested, you stay bloody until they book you. They will patch up the wound, but you don't get a clean shirt. As for the tape, it was clear to me. I had no problem not seeing a broken nose or bloodly busted head.
Your rational discussion based on those pesky FACTS is not all that popular in this dfiscussion. But thanks for the post. It gives me hope that if enough of us stand up on this one, the huge racial divide in our country will be reduced. thanks!
If what you are saying is TRUE, than more pressure needs to be put on and ALL of the police involved need to be arrested as accessories after the fact, covering up the evidence in this case, they took Zimmerman waited 4 hours to bring him in, had a hospital state he had injuries, heck even doctors need to be charged as accessories. YES THIS MUST BE RACISM, this Trayvon he must have been some bad dude
@Realistic Woman
From the ABC news timeline account:
"Zimmerman tells police he killed Martin in self defense. Zimmerman’s head and nose are cleaned up at the scene by EMTs. He is then cuffed and driven in a police cruiser to the Sanfrod Police department. He is questioned, tapes a video statement and is released. Police do not arrest him, nor administer a drug or alcohol test. But the police report classifies this as a homicide under statute 782.11 for the “Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act”"
They gave him a clean shirt too? Zimmerman claimed that his head was being slammed onto the concrete and he had to shoot Martin because he feared for his life. But yet he didn't even go to the hospital to get an xray. Zimmerman may have sustained some injuries after getting his butt kicked in the fight, however he took a life and he cannot just walk away clean from that.
You guys are too much. Yes, let's just start building a gallows on the information the media feeds you. Here is an idea, wait for the actual case before you start passing judgement. Also, stop acting as if you were eyewitnesses and automatically know everything that happened last night. I don't know if he is guilty or innocent since I wasn't there, and neither were you. Yet, just go ahead and keep judging to make you feel better about yourselves.
I haven't actually seen the police report, but from what I read the police report just said Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head; the recently released photograph of him taken within minutes of the incident is from the rear, so I don't know about his nose, but the back of his head is clearly injured and bleeding quite a bit.
@ Kirby59. There is a plethora of information that was lost b y the improper investigation but that photo isn't one that was saved. That's the most photoshopped picture I've seen in weeks! Blood isn't that red after it hits the oxygen...it turns maroon to brown. Surely the police didn't shoot fresh red blood within seconds of the accident. And, why didn't they do a drug or alcohol test on GZ? I'm just saying that the guy who was still alive with the gun wasn't checked for obvious reasons...they didn't want an arrest.
kris you need to learn more about the law in question. The police couldn't arrest Zimmerman under the stand your ground law, Plan and simple. Zimmerman was treated by EMT's at the time when police first got there. They will never get a conviction under the SYG law. As for the Chief resigning, there is no way he should do that. He just followed the law as it is written.
E.Loverton
Took long enough for someone to CLAIM photoshop. Unfortunately for your argument the photo was taken by a iPhone 4s that encodes various information that photoshop doesn't touch. Date and time, gps location There are other features that the police will be able to verify... And I wouldn't be surprised they took their own.
The REASON George wasn't arrested was the LAW. Check out Florida 776. It is against the LAW to make an arrest until they investigate and PROVE it was not self defense. Quit blaming the police. They did all they could until the DA told them to let him go home. They didn't say, NO CHARGES. They said GO HOME while we investigate.
Most of you "mob rules" types will slink off when this sorts out and George is CLEARED of the death.
For those who haven't yet seen the reports, here they are.
Ofc Timothy Smith was the first officer on the scene, here is his report submitted 2/27/2012 at 3:29:
On 2/26/2012 at approximately 1917 hours I responded to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a report of a suspicious person. As I arrived on scene, dispatch advised of a report of shots fired in the same subdivision.
I was advised by dispatch that the report of shots fired was possibly coming from 1231 Twin Trees lane I was then advised after receiving multiple calls that there was a subject lying in the grass between the residences of 1231 Twin Trees Ln and 2821Retreat View Cir. I responded to 2831 Retreat View Cir and exited my marked Sanford Police vehicle and began to canvas the area. As I walked between the buildings I observed a white male wearing a red jacket and blue jeans I also observed a black male wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt laying face-down in the grass.
I asked the subject in the red jacket, later identified as George Zimmerman (who was original caller for the suspicious person complaint), if he had seen the subject. Zimmerman stated that he had shot the subject and was still armed. Zimmerman complied with all of my verbal commands and was secured in handcuffs. Located on the inside of Zimmerman's waist band, I removed a black Kel Tek 9mm PF9semi auto handgun and holster. While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.
Shortly after securing Zimmerman Ofcr Ricardo Ayala arrived on scene. I advised Ofcr Ayala that I had not made contact with the black male subject laying on the ground. I observed Ofcr Ayala make contact with the subject and attempt to get a response, but s met with negative results. Shortly after this other officers began to arrive on scene and along with SFD rescue 38 who began to give aid to the subject lying on the ground.
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.
Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.
The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.
Ofcr Ricardo Ayala’s statement submitted 2/27/2012 2:28
On 2/26 at approximately 1917 hours I was dispatch to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a complainant seeing suspicious person in the area. While en route dispatch stated that they were receiving calls in reference to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to.
Ofc. T. Smith stated via radio that he was arriving in the area. Ofc. T. Smith later states that there was only one subject shot and he had one at gunpoint.
Upon arrival Ofc. T. Smith had a white male later identified as George Zimmerman, in custody. Zimmerman was also the original caller in reference to the suspicious person.
I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans, and white/red sneakers laying face-down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body. I attempted to get a response from the black male but was met with negative results. At that time Sgt. Raimondo arrived and attempted to get a pulse on the black male but none as found. At that time Sgt. Raimondo and I turned the black male over and began CPR. Sgt. Raimondo did breaths and I did chest compressions.
Sgt. S McCoy arrived on scene and relieved me continuing compressions. Sanford Fire Rescue arrived on scene and attempted to revive the subject but could not. Paramedic Brady pronounced the subject deceased at 1930 hours.
The scene was then secured with crime scene tape by Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wagner. Ofc. Robertson began a crime scene contamination log.
Lt. Taylor arrived on scene and notified dispatch to have Major Crimes respond to the scene. Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wgner were able to make contact with neighbors in the area. They were able to obtain statements from all witnesses on scene.
The scene was turned over to SPD Major Crimes.
This has turned into such a political football game that there is no way Zimmerman will be convicted. If that area of Florida could not convict Casey Anthony there is no way they will convict George. Forget it.
Your correct, they couldn't convict Casey Anthony and they may not convict zimmerman. Because we have to many dumb people who are borderline delusional in their skills to solve problems.
Boo hoo, Kris Craig did not get the first post and whined about an "x". Get a life.
"His name is Ricky. Ricky Bobby."
"Ricky Bobby? He's got two first names!"
I cannot believe someone on here said the paramedics nor the police clean you up before taking you to the police station???? What kind of stupid comment is that? Of course the paramedics cleaned him up!!! The news has stated on more than one occasion that Zimmerman was checked out by the paramedics. I'm sure if he had blood on the back of his head, they cleaned it up in order to see the injuries!
Why don't you just give it a rest and let the "courts" try Zimmerman. If they find him guilty, then he goes to jail. If they find him not guilty, he goes free. AND regardless of the "court's" verdict, you will have plenty of time and avenues to keep up the bitchin' depending on what "your" verdict is!! And no matter what the verdict is, there will be those who are in agreement and those who are not. And then there will be those of us who say, "the court has decided and that's it." I have no desire to hang anyone until that person has had a fair trial.
Buck Johnson, It's 2 completely different areas Casey Anthony was tried in Orange Co. which is comprised mostly of non native floridians (mostly yankees, I was born & raised in Orange Co. 3rd generation Floridian). Sanford is in Seminole Co.
descrs, absolutely correct as a part of their duty is to make sure an injured person is afford medical care/fifst aid from paramedics at the scene if possible.
Realistic woman is spouting non facts to justify her false assumptions in this case.
@Kris, your assertions about Zimmerman lying about his injuries is a talking point that has already been DISPROVEN. Here, let me help you:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg
Click the link and then tell me it was all faked. This was taken before the EMT's cleaned him up. I can't believe you're still harping on and on about a FACT that is established and is NOT disputed in the case. Medical records unequivocally show a head wound and a broken nose. Deal with it, guy.
Please note that my comment above is not a defense of Zimmerman's actions, but rather a disputation of your (false) assertions regarding the nature of his injuries.
sad for everybody
Agreed, Mike. --- Zimmerman was in over his head. Pursuing while carrying a gun is for the police who have the special training. Would everybody like a person who only knows how to fold airplanes and hang-glide and loves videos of flying an airplane to be their commercial airline pilot?
This was not a political thing, he as asked to resigned because he screwed up royally. There was virtually no investigation done. Evidence at the scene was not documented or collected. There is not excuse for the slipshod way in which the police handled this whole case. His resignation should have been happily accepted. The only reason to reject the resignation would be so that they could fire him and avoid paying him severance he does not deserve.
I'll have to disagree with you here. Read Ofcr Ricardo Ayala’s statement submitted 2/27/2012 2:28:
On 2/26 at approximately 1917 hours I was dispatch to 1111 Retreat View Cir in reference to a complainant seeing suspicious person in the area. While en route dispatch stated that they were receiving calls in reference to gun shots being heard in the area where I was responding to.
Ofc. T. Smith stated via radio that he was arriving in the area. Ofc. T. Smith later states that there was only one subject shot and he had one at gunpoint.
Upon arrival Ofc. T. Smith had a white male later identified as George Zimmerman, in custody. Zimmerman was also the original caller in reference to the suspicious person.
I then noticed that there was what appeared to be a black male wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans, and white/red sneakers laying face-down on the ground. The black male had his hands underneath his body. I attempted to get a response from the black male but was met with negative results. At that time Sgt. Raimondo arrived and attempted to get a pulse on the black male but none as found. At that time Sgt. Raimondo and I turned the black male over and began CPR. Sgt. Raimondo did breaths and I did chest compressions.
Sgt. S McCoy arrived on scene and relieved me continuing compressions. Sanford Fire Rescue arrived on scene and attempted to revive the subject but could not. Paramedic Brady pronounced the subject deceased at 1930 hours.
The scene was then secured with crime scene tape by Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wagner. Ofc. Robertson began a crime scene contamination log.
Lt. Taylor arrived on scene and notified dispatch to have Major Crimes respond to the scene. Ofc. Mead and Ofc. Wgner were able to make contact with neighbors in the area. They were able to obtain statements from all witnesses on scene.
The scene was turned over to SPD Major Crimes.
I know what you're saying but I sometimes doubt it would have been any different if the police were there after the fiasco that happened in St Augustine.
http://staugustine.com/police-report/2012-04-15/husband-deputies-murdered-my-wife-best-friend-said-victim-hospice-nurse#.T5X9-9WHzk8
The fundamental issue is that any time one human kills another human they should present to a court the facts to determine whether it was justified. Perhaps we need a system where the person isn't even charged but there is simply a hearing to determine if charges should be laid. There is too much scope for bias, errors and other mistakes if police can make a summary decision without right of appeal, if there are so many killings occurring in self defence that the courts couldn't cope with the workload then that's a separate issue that needs sorting.
It is very interesting all the comments suggesting it is wrong or illegal to follow an unknown person walking through your neighborhood. A neighborhood that has had many problems. And thank God Zimmerman had a gun. He might very well be the dead one if he did not. This is not about race, it is about survival.
@DSmith-1497218: To follow someone simply because they are 'unknown' to you I believe is called harrassment. Thank God Zimmerman had a gun?? Against an unarmed teenager?? You must be reading another story. Survival? Folks who think like you operate on the most primal of levels: fear of the unknown. In that scenario, everyone is the enemy. And also in that scenario, innocent people can end up dead time and time again.
amanda, you speak too much common sense. so many people have already made up their minds about this case, it is rediculous. this is the country where you are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. it is a shame, no matter what, that the kid died, but let zimmerman have his day in court, assume hes innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. that is the nice thing about this country, we make sure that people are guilty before condemning them, its done for others, and i hope it is done for me and my family and friends if they ever have something unfortunate happen.
JS in SD, nobody would have guessed you were there! How informed you are, to know how the investigation went, who said what to whom.. Why have you remained silent up until now? Please enlighten us so we don't have to wait for that silly old trial to take place.
xxxxxxxxxxxx
whuck Don't you know half the country was there and knows everything that happened? Please don't confuse these people with the facts. They aren't the least bit interested in them. They all know exactly what the police should have done. They all know exactly how minor GZ's injuries were and how he faked them even when they were visible in a picture 3 minutes later.
Illegal? No. Wrong? Not necessarily, but probably ill-advised. In FL, neighborhoods are typically not just one or two blocks. They can be multiple streets with more than a hundred houses, and lately, the turnaround of residents in most FL neighborhoods has been pretty high. Also, for some reason (maybe because most people are from "somewhere else"), people tend not to know more than one or two neighbors, usually the ones that live next to you or across the street. It's more likely you won't know a person walking through your neighborhood, even though they might live two blocks away and have been there for over a year.
The Ignorance displayed within these comments are absolutely mind blowing. So ready to convict someone when so very little confirmed facts are avalible. Hearsay...ear wittiness...what someone might have or might not have seen In the shadows of the night.
I feel that If this police chief had really droped the ball as so many hateful nasty misinformed people suggest....his resignation would have Indeed been excepted. But I dont expect the mindless sheep to see It any other way.
To call these people "cretins" Is really not fair to the decent cretins out there. So I will simply refer to these outstanding folks as "mouth breathers" I know..I know...not fair to the decent mouth breathers out there. Please except my apology
Here's the church...here's the steeple....open the door and see all those fine sheeple.
@JS in SD -- Get over yourself......he retired on his own free will. He felt the pressure. They were not hoping to fire him or whatever you said for not having to pay him. He caved. He probably didnt want to hear Al Sharptons big ugly mouth or couldnt stand to watch our president show his racism anymore. He couldnt win. African Americans are the new terrorist.
"African-Americans are the new terrorist." No, that distinction still & always will belong to the people stealing, land grabbing, small-pox blanket given spawn of the Europeans and the rejects of their prisons! Cause you all did not come over on the Mayflower (just in case your revisionist history spreads)! The latter of your comments was insulting an as unnecessary as your IGNORANCE!
Judging by many comments here, I suppose I should go into town and follow someone around...maybe a woman or a kid...and see how they react. At best, I'll get my ass kicked by a mean husband or dad asking me what the heck is up. I'll explain you guys said there was nothing wrong with following people. At worst, I'll be dead. Will it be their fault because they react to my actions? Or will it be my fault for following them when I could easily choose, oh I don't know, not to? What if I just want to return a woman something she drops but she feels threatened? I'm a good guy just trying to do the right thing...but guess what? If that happens, I'm being cautious so A) I don't scare the wits out of the poor woman because hello---I know she will see me as a possible threat! B) So I stay safe because who knows who this woman is. I'm not walking up to her with a false sense of security because I am stronger than she is. My point...if I am dumb enough not to realize what her reactions to me might be, for starters, I should never have a gun, and two...I better become a hermit and stay away from other humans to avoid hurting them because I only think of myself.
That is what the case is dealing with. Not race. Not prejudice. Zimmerman was so focused on the idea that Trayvon was doing wrong, his judgement at best was way off. God forbid I ever follow anyone, and they attack me in fear. Many people supporting Zimmerman would then believe I have the right to kill the person I initiated contact with.
It is also interesting how people say Zimmerman was acting in self-defense...survival, huh? The very same thing could be said for Martin...but I guess justice is one-sided? I also can't help but notice how most people are looking at the police reports and somehow concluding it is fact after a thorough investigation. Just the fact that the police let Zimmerman go without any drug or alcohol testing---yet they test the dead guy---, and before they knew who Trayvon was is extremely bothersome to me. Yes, he claimed self-defense. You gotta find proof it was not that...but really? My head being slammed into concrete as brutally as Zimmerman claimed means I'm spending the night in the hospital for observation...brain swelling can cause death after the fact after all and concrete is not a pillow. I could go on and on about what I hate Zimmerman's story...but the reason I mentioned it first was to say...it is Zimmerman's story. Not fact. Only one person knows what transpired before Trayvon ended up on top of Zimmerman. Hopefully, facts come to light to show what did happen so justice can be served for whoever deserves it. But to act as if grass on a guy's back and a few cuts clarifies things, along with testimony from people who say they saw a Trayvon on top but others say he was on the bottom...come on.
To be honest, if the Sanford Police had any kind of evidence to absolve Zimmerman, that night or after the fact, why did we not see it for the month plus that we waited for action??? Given the amount of coverage and clear outcry, I would think they would have said something. Yes, we gotta prove he is guilty, not innocent. Regardless, if they can't prove him innocent, they just as well cannot rule out his guilt.
MIKE J. - "The Ignorance displayed within these comments are absolutely mind blowing."
Yes, ignorance are mind blowing. Or something.
Apacherosepeaoo-- I agree with your comments. Also, I agree about the questions you have about Zimmerman's head being slammed by Trayvon. Zimmerman's explanation is just his side of the story. Who knows,maybe Zimmerman slipped---------------Maybe Zimmerman stopped suddenly when Trayvon approached him to ask why Zimmerman was following him. Don't forget what could have happened on a rainy night if Zimmerman was running on wet grass & stopped suddenly when Trayvon approached him. Zimmermn's feet could have gone out from under him, and Zimmerman could have landed on his back and hit his head on the sidewalk. At that point, Trayvon might have seen Zimmerman's gun, and Trayvon then realized he had to protect himself. (Problem is, there are many speculative scenarios out there--That's why we need to let a jury decide in a court of justice.)
Apache & youall -- your views, logical way of thinking, and thoughtful comments are a breath of fresh air! Hopefully, potential jurors would apply the same critical thinking based on evidence before them.
It's not rocket science...it was a simple statement of advice (a practical recommendation as to action or conduct), that he choose to disregard and would've prevented any of this from happening.
@jude mignacca "To follow someone simply because they are 'unknown' to you I believe is called harrassment. Thank God Zimmerman had a gun?? Against an unarmed teenager?? You must be reading another story. Survival? Folks who think like you operate on the most primal of levels: fear of the unknown. In that scenario, everyone is the enemy. And also in that scenario, innocent people can end up dead time and time again."
So Jude, lets start at the beginning of this mess. It is a free country and Martin had the right to walk through the neighborhood just a Zimmerman had the right to follow him. As the facts are known at this time, Martin broke the law by attacking Zimmerman because many suggest he may have been scared. If he were scared, why did he not run away? How about call 911 and not his girlfriend? Zimmerman was getting his butt beat by a much younger person and feared for his well being. I don't think Zimmerman, at the time of getting his beating, paused and checked the ID of Martin. Jude, it is clear to me you need to get out and learn what goes on in the world. Teenagers are killing others every day. They are killing old people, young people, black, white, on and on. Clearly, it is unfortunate that this occurred. But Jude, a fact of life is that you attack another person you should be prepared to die. And yes, it is survival. Based on your statement, I would guess that if you were ever attacked by another (I pray this never happens) you would have no means of defense. And Jude, if it were to occur, would you care how old the attacker was or would you defend yourself?
I DON'T think Trayvon just ATTACKED Zimmerman. I think that, after all the time Trayvon ENDURED being followed that somehow Zimmerman did something (or the gun became visible) that made Trayvon realize he had to protect himself(---Trayon had to protect himself.)
You all.....Why dont you just make up some more crap??? On any subject...we are all just waiting for your superior intellect to hear all about how you just know everything.... Is it like magic??
J.A-522495
hey this did all happen not too far from the magic kingdom.
Sure does sound political....
Another life/family feels the reverberation of this tragedy....Next...
How, exactly, does it sound political when a police chief resigns after presiding over a botched investigation? A man murdered an unarmed teenager then lied to police about it being in self-defense. These officers took his word for it and closed the case without making an arrest. The officers also lied about Zimmerman having suffered massive injuries, being covered in blood, etc; all of which we now know to be false.
Instead of investigating the officers' actions, Chief Lee blindly supported them and refused to look into the matter further. He was more interested in protecting his co-workers than he was in doing his duty. THAT is why he was forced to resign. Politics had nothing to do with it.
Sorry, but there are photos and medical reports to confirm injuries. The police could not determine that it was NOT self-defense.
It sounds political because many refuse to see the facts and want 'heads to roll'.
@cms5 - Neither could the police confirm that it was self-defense. That is why an investigation was needed. The injuries confirmed that there was an altercation. The fact that an unarmed teenager was laying dead on the ground was enough for an investigation. The police chief did not act in the manner in which he should have. He was just willing to let it go. That was not the right thing to do.
He can say what he wants "political" or whatever. I'm sure the citizens in that area are glad that he is gone.
cms5, where exactly are these medical reports you refer to? Where are the official photos?
Kris Kringle - all of the above that you posted is your speculation, there is not a fact in any of it. Give it a break. Were you there? I have not seen you name on the witness list.
Its OK to have an opinion, but don't state it as fact.
rick - You need to leave MSNBC fantasy land once in a while.
The pictures have been widely circulated despite liberals attempts to continue ignoring reality.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg
PJam: And, on that note, you probably ought to stop reading about politics for a while. You seem to have a difficult time not politicizing something that has absolutely nothing to do with "conservative" versus "liberal" politics. That must get pretty tiring!
I'll spell it out even further. What do the Casey Anthony, OJ Simpson, and Rodney King trials all have in common? Nothing to do with political viewpoints!
Actually this is political Jack, the ramifications could be an overturn of a very good law on self defense. In NJ you can only shoot someone in self defense if they enter your home. If they are outside you have to wait for them to enter, as in you see him/her breaking your glass and reaching in to turn door knob, you must wait for him to enter before firing. You also can't conceal a weapon out on the street, had the individual in this case NOT had a concealed permit, the outcome could have been reversed. Bashing someone's head with a foot or into pavement is considered use of a deadly weapon/intent to kill, you don't need weapons to do it.
Also if you look at the history of recent high profile cases they very much had HUGE impacts. Look at the case in Connecticut where the home with wife and 2 daughters was burned. That case ALONE made the state think twice about abolishing the death penalty, keeping it available for that trial's conclusion.
Also I am sick of this president getting involved in every crime that involves a black person (his weight turns this political), prior to any true truths being discovered or released. It is no wonder that he is now questioning why we even have a Judicial branch (due to them debating health care law). Let those who get paid to figure that out handle it. I am of course referring to the previous event where a black man was arrested in his own house while arguing about showing ID to police officers when they were called to the scene of a break in and robbery by a neighbor. I have seen plenty of people get arrested for less, regardless of skin color.
Chris:
You are correct from one angle, but that isn't PJam's motive in the context of his commenting throughout this and many articles on this site. It isn't a matter of political aftereffects in the state of Florida, rather, he keeps pushing his case that "liberals are stupid."
My point is that when the jury is selected, the prosecution and defense won't be worried about how many Republicans and how many Democrats end up on the jury. Obama, for what its worth, commented just as much about this case as he did regarding Keeping Up With The Kardashians and the NBA, which doesn't make either of those political. At no point in the trial, are they going to go from blood spatter and eyewitness accounts, to Zimmerman's political affiliation. This is a murder case, not an election. Trying to spin politics into this adds nothing to the conversation.
Actually Rick, we will most probably never see those medical records. Ever hear of HIPPA? It might be evidence, but not open to the public. They take pictures of women that have been raped...you want those released to public too? The only ones that should see those records are the prosecution, defense, and judge and jury. I really have to know...what makes you think they should release them to you?
Kris so the neighbors picture of the back of GZ's head 3 minutes after the shooting and at the location of the shooting per iPhone time stamp an GPS coordinates is faked too huh. The HIPPA rules can be waived by GZ. It would be in his best interest to waive them along with the doctors report from the doctor who treated him. That report the defense attorney already has and has offered to give a copy to the state prosecuter.
Kris,
True, someone is dead, but murder has not yet been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Hopefully, you will never be in the position of proving your innocence because some vengeful mob believes you are guilty of some horrific act.
Lonereb, both sides have to give the other copies of any evidence they will be admitting at trial.
A fight doesn't absolve all parties from wrong doing.
Trayvon was killed for fighting, he got his punishment. What will Zimmerman's punishment be for his epically irresponsible decisions that evening?
@Ellis Zimmerman freely admits that he murdered Martin, an unarmed teenager whom he was chasing without just cause. In most jurisdictions, that in and of itself would be considered murder even if you believe his wild story of Trayvon turning and defending himself against Zimmerman.
What this article doesn't mention is that this particular police chief had had several complaints of race-related issues previous to the Zimmerman case.
He didn't handle them appropriately then and he certainly didn't handle this one well either.
"Political," yeah, right.
Cite your source? A Sanford city councilwoman just said he's had no complaints, whatsoever, during his career.
gone4now - I believe he is the third Chief of Police within three years - I would say not to long of a career
What three - four months?
Plus what the devil was going on before he took this position - he was brought in to clean up the mess
Also the lead investigator wanted to file charges against Zimmerman and his report was squashed
@gone4now, try the Orlando Sentinel
And we will just take your word for this? No. If you can provide some facts please do, if not, don't post your racial bias stuff.
Ryan - You're saying the organization(NBC) who altered the 911 tape to make it sound racist is now ignoring real race complaints against the chief? Are you really that gullible?
Here's how Lee got his post:
In that same month, the chief of the department, Bran Tooley took an early retirement as a result of an incident involving one of his officer’s sons. Justin Collison was involved in a fistfight caught on video tape. Press reports indicate Collison, the son of a police lieutenant, may have received preferential treatment by the Sanford Police Department
This pretty much is the case. i live close to Sanford and this is how it played out.
x
your gonna get REPORTED by crying kris if you X again!@!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I don't feel that it was "purely political". From what I understand the Sanford Police department had developed a reputation for not dealing fairly with African Americans. The Trayvon Martin shooting was probably the last straw in poor police work and misconduct. The fact that the police were willing to write off the killing of an unarmed teenager without any investigation was unbelievable. He should resign. He can always find another job and George Zimmerman can move on. Trayvon Martin is gone forever.
Realistic Lee wasn't the chief at the time. He barely had time to get his feet on the ground when this happened. Besides he is not the one who stopped the investigation it was a DA who said they didn't have enough evidence to charge. That is the way it is handled in most areas of the country.
Thank you
I agree with @Realistic that the only thing "political" about this is the desire of some members of the Council to maintain a staunch resistance to examining the racism and police bias that has existed in the community and been exposed by the Zimmerman debacle. There are multiple prior reports of police bias and differential treatment of matters on racial grounds. Lee had the responsibility to investigate and make the arrest. If the DA wanted to use racist political pressure and authorize a release AFTER the arrest, then Lee's compliance with such orders would not have compromised his department. For many reasons, Lee's resignation should be accepted. Not the least of them is the fact that the Black community can have no confidence in him, and the move by the Council to reject his resignation only makes that worse. It is an endorsement of the racist practices and failures over which Lee tendered his resignation.
If Lee allows this to stand, he is not very bright. This will keep him in the spotlight and prevent him from moving on with his chosen career. If bowing to the DA was a mistake, he could overcome that in time at some other post. But staying in the spotlight in that same community will always mark him and the department.
Stand Your Ground threw Zimmerman and Martin under the bus because it lets a potential murderer simply walk rather than providing due process--and I say "potential" because this case has yet to be investigated properly and put before a court of law. If Zimmerman is innocent, then SYG took away HIS rights to a fair trial, and he was put in danger as a result of the controversy that followed. On the supposition that someone under similar circumstances could've killed a person on purpose and gotten away with it... how would anyone know? Nobody should simply walk away from a situation where a sacred HUMAN LIFE has been extinguished.
I'm not here to claim guilt or innocence for the man, and I do believe the racial yammerings are a smoke screen away from the real legal issues. But by having this law to let local police make the "decision" of guilt or innocence on the spot, and not the regular legal process that occurs when a life is taken, that has turned this situation into something that it should not have been. Would YOU trust the local-yokels--untrained in legal matters--to let someone out of jail without the situation being fully investigated?
Also, Zimmerman was being attacked seriously enough to take a life, right? Then why did NOBODY--not the police, not his family--take him to the emergency room? EMTs are not doctors; they can treat injuries but they cannot diagnose and follow-up, so I don't hold that their "care" was sufficient. Natasha Richardson had one sharp blow to the head and died from a subdural hematoma. Zimmerman had his head smashed "repeatedly" against the pavement... that's not worthy of an x-ray or an MRI? If you are in a situation where you feel it necessary to kill someone because you want to protect your own life, then why stop short at seeking proper medical care?
Stand:
I believe the police documents show that the officers did not make a judgement as to guilt or innocense - which is often normal. They handcuffed, brought to the jail, placed him in a cell, and intervied him. The DA is the person who made the judgement that there would not be an arrest on the information at the time. The police did nothing wrong - other than not asking for a drug test which was not required. An investigation was in process at the same time the noise was shouting for an investigation.
Emergency room? No. The first officer on the scene reported the condition of Mr. Zimmerman, that HE SAW. He reported that the emergency personnel attended to Mr. Zimmerman. That is the extent of the injury information.
We need to stick to the limited facts that were released by the department, including the documents and department videos. There is nothing else. Just opinions.
If I'm hit once, i'm threatened. I'm not going to chance being beaten to death or wait to almost be dead before shooting. I wonder if this story would have made any impact on the media, or if TM mother would have trade marked her sons name, oh and let's not forget the 5 to 6 year old pictures, if TM would have beat to death GZ? Probably not.
I can see the head lines now.
Local teen beats to death neigbor hood crime watch, in other related news!!!
Accepting the shooters words at the murder scene was not proper procedure. Returning the murder weapon and not collecting ballistics evidence is not proper procedure.
Does this mean if your neighbors in the gated community don't know you, they can shoot you dead?
Does this mean if you lose a fist fight, you can shoot the other guy dead?
EXACTLY. A lack of proper procedure turned both Zimmerman and Martin into victims.
exactly! You don't get to start a fight...lose and then kill the person kicking your a**. You shouldn't have been bothering him in the first place.
@ sindy ... A lot of people have rushed to judgement. We haven't even seen the autopsy report. We don't know what position Zimmerman was in when he made the shot. Forensics and the report will give much more detail. We haven't heard much from witnesses. The fact that Zimmerman was walking the streets was because of previous break ins in the past. He was part of the neighborhood watch. That was his job. The community was gated. Trayvon was walking on private property to get out of the rain. Both people apparently felt threatened. Martin was bloodied from recently release pictures and videos. You could see signs of attack. Ignited racial threads is not beneficial. The black panthers and other activists is no better than the KKK going around inciting violence. The lynch mob mentality has to simmer down. Look at the British Men who were found guilty by the mob before a trial prior to the Revolutionary War. Mobs are full of fear and hatred.
Joe-903244
I am aware of George Zimmerman video/photo but not Trayvon Martin video/photo. Please provide a link. Per the funeral director Trayvon had no signs of being in a fight.
sindy - Since when is following someone "starting a fight"?
Even martins girlfriend said he was going to start a confrontation.
Read this clip from Officer Smith's report (he was the first officer on the scene):
Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.
Zimmerman was placed in an interview room as SPD, where he was interviewed by Investigator D Singleton. Zimmerman was turned over to investigators and this was the extent of my involvement in this case.
The Kel Tek handgun that I collected from Zimmerman was placed into evidence under TS-1.
Ever think that maybe Zimmerman, who basically stalked an unarmed kid, started the fight and when he was losing shot the kid. A kid he shouldn't have been following/harassing in the first place. If he doesn't get jail time for following, harassing and killing a child then Stanford will have more issues then just this man quitting. Thank God I don't live there.
But what if he doesn't get jail time for not following, harassing and killing a person old enough to join the army because he establishes that he was legitimately defending himself from someone who initiated an attack on him? Will you be willing to eat your accusations then, or will your anti-white/Latino bias still cause you to distort the facts and claim injustice?
Militias and community watches are the citizens rights put forth in the Bill of Rights. From what I take from this is Zimmerman confronted someone who acted aggressive because he felt threatened. It was tragic. Now there are black people attacking white people because OUR LEADERS have acted foolishly in this case. They can't run on the economy or the issues, so they bait the social issues. It is truly sad.
Comenzar: I don't think saying Martin "initiated the attack" is accurate considering Zimmerman, someone with no real authority, got out of a vehicle and chased him. If he had provoked Zimmerman out of his car, and then attacked him, it would be the other way around.
I've come across numerous rookie police officers, community watch volunteers, and self-appointed guardians who can be a bit eager and power hungry. I wouldn't be surprised if the truth was somewhere in the middle of Martin being mouthy and Zimmerman overstepping his bounds substantially, shooting Martin, and then claiming he was going after his gun.
Stalked? He was following a stranger, who was acting suspiciously, in his GATED housing complex. We need more George Zimmermans in the world and fewer thugs.
Budd - not a 'stranger'! Acting suspicious according to GZ, I'm sure Trayvon found GZ suscpicious when he followed for no reason. You capitalized 'gated' as if this was some highly affluent upper class million dollar neighborhood. First off, gated doesn't necessarily been it's going to deterr unwanted persons from entering...there were was a side entrance off the street that residents used frequently...as well as a back entrance. Secondly, the complex was 50-50 mix of rental and owner occupied units, GZ and Ms. Green both renting. Shame on you for condoning the killing of an unarmed child!
It seems that he relied too heavily on Florida's SYG law to cover him for failing to have a by-the-book investigation of a fatal shooting. In hindsight, it perhaps would have been better if he had ordered all the i's dotted and t's crossed on this one.
Aside from being convicted of a killing by MSNBC, helped by President Obama, aided by Attorney General Holder, why wouldn't a person fear an attacker who maybe weighed 200 lbs, was 6 ft tall, wearing a hooded jacket, and in the night. No, I am not dealing with facts as I know them to be, just speculations of people trying to sell news, and others trying to stir the political advantage. Perhaps Mr. Zimmerman was wrong to defend himself..and should have abided by those who are now convicting him.
I would prefer to let justice take its slow course...which it will...with all due respect to the President, Attorney General, MSNBC.
Clif Judy
Uh, if you have been following this story from the beginning, it seems that the whole point was that "justice" wasn't taking any course at all, slow or otherwise. The police investigation, such as it was, was over, and no further action was going to be taken. At all.
Which was how this got to be a "story" in the first place.
By the same token, why would a person report someone who they have NOT seen commit a crime to police?
It's dark, someone's walking in the dark... that's something that must be reported now? If Trayvon had been seen exiting a house, trying to enter a house, tagging, committing acts of vandalism... TOTALLY understandable for law enforcement to get a call. But just walking somewhere "they're not supposed to be"? This could have easily been a case where someone lost a dog and was chasing it down, then got shot and killed for being somewhere "they're not supposed to be" because they were following their animal, only to have an armed man approach them.
jokeOff - "then got shot and killed for being somewhere "they're not supposed to be""
It doesn't matter where you, jumping on someone and slamming their head in the ground is asking for whatever your victim can do to you.
Why oh why is the option of possibly talking to the person following and either asking "why are you following me?" or explaining why you are walking through the gated community that you are an unknown in, never even considered by those that want to condemn Zimmerman? Could not this whole thing been prevented if Martin had simply talked to Zimmerman? In all these speculations of guilt it's amazing that that option never even gets a thought.
StandUp - that's why he decided to use terms like "he looks like he's on drugs, wondering around in the rain, looking at houses". He knew that they wouldn't come out for someone walking around...especially considering his previous 'bogus' calls.
Why oh why is the option of possibly talking to the person following and either asking "why are you following me?" or explaining why you are walking through the gated community that you are an unknown in, never even considered by those that want to condemn Zimmerman? Could not this whole thing been prevented if Martin had simply talked to Zimmerman? In all these speculations of guilt it's amazing that that option never even gets a thought.
First of all Zimmerman was following him in his vehicle. Martin moved closer and when he realized it wasn't someone that he knew he tried to get away (for all he knew this was some serial killer stalking him) and Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and chased him. Martin was doing nothing wrong, had no idea who Zimmerman was but he should have just simply talked to the random stranger that was following him in his vehicle and then chasing him when he tried to get away. It is amazing that people who believe that Zimmerman did nothing wrong never give the option of Zimmerman rolling down his window of his vehicle and talking to Martin. Why is it the responsibility of the person being followed to approach the person that is following them to explain what they are doing?
ethnicbutee
Define bogus.... Several of the calls George placed were for doors found open when it was known residents were not home. Alarms going off at both his home and others. I'm not sure if it was George or another neighbor who called in two suspicious individuals who were found to be in possession of laptops that had JUST been stolen within the past hour.
Donna P-2692688
From the best I can tell on the recorded call by George his vehicle was stopped. Martin moved from ducking under the eves at the clubhouse passing near where George was parked then proceeding down the "cut through" between buildings on the sidewalk and around the corner. So at least during the phone call George was not following in his vehicle but simply sitting there. There isn't a lot of distance George could have followed Trayvon inside the community.
By time George got out of his vehicle Trayvon was out of sight. If Trayvon was still in motion he would have been a ways down the sidewalk, even with George running, by time Geroge reached the T. Remember the story is he was running or walking away "fast". Listening to the recording it sounds like George at minimum slowed to a walk if not a stop.
There is a long step between wrong and illegal. I agree George was STUPID for getting out of his vehicle. He was also stupid for allowing Trayvon to get physically close enough to come to physical blows. neither however are illegal
From the best we can tell Trayvon was never close enough to George to roll his window down and say anything. Actually many in the Martin camp would have issue with George even doing that much.
Approaching is NOT the responsibility of the person being followed. But when close enough to exchange words and asked a question the response is either to walk away or reply in a polite manner, not get into a fight or come back with a smart mouth remark.
It used to be that ALL people were taught to show respect to an adult, even those we didn't care for. Why don't you tell us what the correct response is today. A simple I'm going to so and so's or even I'm cutting through on a public side walk would suffice. Either Martin was the angel depicted by his photo when he was 12-14, he was a typical teen who might have responded by ignoring the adult or replied nonya business or he took a swing.
trust - hello friend! Knew it was only matter of time before you responded to one of my many recent posts. I trust you are having a pleasant day? There are several things I read in your post that are worth addressing, but seeing as they're not directed at me, I look forward to reply from Donna P.
-ttfn
What a mess this is. There is no real resolution. Those that want to hang the police doing their job with a stupid stand your ground ordinance. The political hacks that want to use this for their own fame and notoriety. Trayvon's parents that didn't do a stellar job raising him. Trayvon's own blighted background and the press that love it and don't care about anything other than selling copy.
Where do you get off blaming the parents and the victim? How his parents reared him had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with him being killed by some fool wanna be cop.
Do you have any off-spring William? How about a pet? If you have either, and they ever do anything that anyone remotely things might be wrong, does George Zimmerman have a right to kill them?
RealisticW:
The VICTIM was George Zimmerman. Nobody's blaming his parents for anything. If you mean Martin's parents, they certainly haven't taken any responsibility for their son's attack on a short Latino man who was no threat to Trayvon until he started a fight.
Comenzar de Volver,
Let me see, you're obviously Hispanic so immediately you side with Zimmerman. Even though I am very fair complected, I too am of Hispanic descent. However, my son inherited a dark complexion. He is almost as dark as Trayvon, the same age, and about the same size. I cannot count how many times my son gone for a walk in the evening wearing a hoodie! Does MY son deserve to be stalked because he looks suspicious?
Where you there? I wasn't. NO ONE will ever really know what happened that night. The victim IS Trayvon. BECAUSE HE'S DEAD! He is not here to tell his story. Whether this is race related or not, there is no need for vigilantism.
Dazy - "Does MY son deserve to be stalked because he looks suspicious?"
No, does it matter if he is? Not at all, until he decides that being much larger than the person following him he is going to teach the person a lesson.
Did the zimmermans parents son deserve to be assaulted for being a small man trying to make his neighborhood safer?
By him you mean some fool wanna be thug? Walk like a duck, talk like a duck...don't be surprised when someone mistakes you for a duck.
"The City Manager felt that there could be no healing ..." - time to fire the City Manager for giving in to pressure and sacrificing a career in the name of political expedience. Disgraceful.
That's an opinion quoted from a third party. Time to fire YOU for taking it out of context. I want you out of here by the end of the day.
If I were the Chief I would tell them to stick it. He did not make the call to not bring charges to Zimmerman. The DA did that. This entire case is a high profile BS story that was twisted into more than what it is by the media and the black leaders. I do not know the details of the original investigation as like the rest I only have what the media has put out and I quit listening to them weeks ago. I, like others am watching to hear the real evidence and see if true justice is done or if this is a sham.
They blew it ! They did not do their job.The Skittle Defense Law ! No need to investigate case closed. the problem is now they are going to get whacked with a civil suit.
Politicians will always do anything to make the mob happy. Now they have a scapegoat. Looks like Chicago politics has moved to the Sunshine State.
Now it looks like the City Commissioners actually grew a set and refused to accept the resignation.
Congratulations Chief Lee....
I'm personally glad the city refused your resignation. It's time politicians stop pandering to the vocal few and listen to the wishes of the silent majority.
You did right by stepping aside when you felt others had misgivings about your integrity. I'm happy for you.
Good luck in the future.
If the prosecutor cannot recreate using forensics what really happened on the night of the murder, then the police did a POOR JOB of collecting evidence.
...because the real world is just like CSI
I probably doesn't matter if he stays or leaves at this time. I suspect that when the federal investigations are completed, he and many others will be gone.
Actually, the decision was the States Attorney to not pursue criminal charges with the evidence presented. Any "investigation" by the federal government will undoubtedly discover that little truth.
Finally some people willing to stand up for what is right in the face of prejudice fomented by a bunch of mischaracterizing racist black leaders and newscasters who put forth false facts just to promote themselves. They've tried their best to lynch Zimmerman just to be popular, regardless of the facts. I say good on the Sanford Commissioners for standing up to the racists!
Mr. Zimmerman claimsd the lad straddled him and was beating the back of Mr. Zimmerman's head against the grownd when Mr. Zimmerman shot him. If that is true: Gun powder and blood spatter would be all over Mr. Zimmerman's upper stomic and chest area; as will as, the lad's crouch, inner legs, upper legs and the under arm portions of the lad's sweatshirt. The lad would have pitched foreward spewing large amounts of blood all over the front of Mr. Zimmerman's shirt. When Mr. Zimmerman roled the lad off of himself, the lad would been on his back or side. The picture show the lad face down in a prone position. It is most unlikely the lad could have gotten into that position without falling from a standing position. No large amounts of blood, blood spatter nor anything else can be seen on the front of Mr Zimmerman's shirt in the pictures show on TV.
You've been believing too much of what you see on TV. Most gunshot wounds don't bleed immediately, and some never do. Most of the blood would have been sprayed away behind Travon, or would not have sprayed at all. If Zimmerman shot him from below, he would likely have shoved him to the side and scrambled out from under him - he was adult in size and weight. Odds are in favor of a face-down landing.
Of course, in the end, we don't know, and won't until it comes out in court. Until then Zimmerman is innocent in accord with the American standard of justice.
When someone get shot it is not like on the movies or tv. I was an EMT for 16 years a gun shot to the chest might not bleed out. There will be gun powder on Martin hooded this will tell how closs the gun was to him when it went off. The lack of blood on Zimmerman only mean that the Martin heart stop beating quickly. There would not be that much blood. Since the bullet did not go throw, it would seem that Zimmerman used a HP ammo. If the bullet path in Martin was at an upward slant of 45 degree or greater it would support Zimmerman claim that he was on his back with Martin on top of him. As stated by an eyes witness. If Zimmerman told the truth then it seem that Martin made one more bac choice in his short life and this one he can not do over.
I have followed this case closely from the beginning, and while I read so many of the comments, I tend to refrain from engaging in debate with strangers in a media forum. Each of us has a strong opinion about this case, so the idea that a mind can be changed by posting comments is relatively unrealistic. That said, after such a long period of silence, I feel compelled to weigh in on this incredibly sensitive matter.
It is not lost on me that no matter how you examine the facts in this case, one very important fact stands out...George Zimmerman pursued and followed Trayvon Martin. He even did so after being directed by a 911 operator to stop following him.
While we will probably never know what happened during the physical altercation between Zimmerman and Martin, what is clear is that Martin was not the aggressor. You do not get to follow and pursue someone and then shoot and kill the person in the name of "standing your ground".
My belief is that Zimmerman had his ass handed to him in their physical altercation, which he was not expecting to be the case, got pissed off, and escalated well past the next level of force on the escalation of force continuum and killed Martin.
I've seen the photo of his bloodied head and simply put, when you're in a brawl and you fall to the concrete, that can happen. If Zimmerman would have let the police do their job in the first place Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman might have been taught a valuable lesson about making false assumptions about people.
Where are your facts that GZ "pursued and followed" TM AFTER being dieceted by 911 operator (dispatch actually said "we don't need you to do that")?. Once again a personal spin on the facts. If you are going to cite that as your opinion based on facts already known then you have to provide some additional info to substaniate your premise.
ric, you high bro?
GZ lost track of TM and couldn't have followed him even if he wanted to. TM had to come back after GZ for the confrontation to take place.
Big Trouble
Typical. Don't like someones opinion accuse them of being on drugs or otherwise attack them since you have no factual counter argument.
tltpi - I applaud you for your comments. Questions I have concerning the latest pic of GZ's bloody head and the time stamp is that...how is it possible that the police allowed him out of their sight for 3 mins for this 'photo-op'?! If the first Ofc. T. Smith arrived at 7:17 and states that he encountered GZ near the body, and then Ofc. Ayala is next on scene stating that GZ is being held at gun point...how is it GZ buddy John was able to take a photo...since when are witness allowed so close to suspect while at an active crime scene?!
ethnicbutee
It is already noted that 9-1-1/dispatch time is not the same as the cellular network time. Are you claiming the photo is a complete fake? Either you are in the camp that the police didn't do things correctly OR they secured the scene and did their jobs.. or maybe just maybe a mix of the two.
trust - I'm not sure what the 911 dispatch time and cellular network time have to do with the time documented on an official police document...I would imagine that both Ofc. Smith and Ayala were wearing watches that would accurately display the time. Since it is indicated on the report: Time Arrived 2/26/12 19:17, that's what I'm basing my questions on. Not to mention, during the first 911 call, gunshot is heard at 7:16:55. The written statement states they both arrived approx at 7:17 pm. One can assume that could be anywhere between 7:17 and 7:19 when the photo was actually taken. I think it's a valid question...even if they arrived at 7:18, you still allowed someone in police custody to be photographed by non police personnel?
My position on this matter has not been to make accusations one way or another...but simply to comment, express concerns, or raise questions based on what has been presented.