no Californian should be allowed to decide between someones life and death....or red or green

The cost of life without the possibility of release in CA is currently 1 million on average. The cost of appeal on a death case is 14 million. When a person gets a sentence of life without the possibility of release, he or she is entitled to ONE appeal at taxpayer expense, not unlimited like we have with the death penalty.

Stated differently, would you rather spend millions for murders and attorneys, or use that money to have your pick of lowering the state deficit, taxes, or maybe improve our schools?

Any one of the latter are better than spending that money on killers.

I live in CA, and will vote to abolish the death penalty because 'death' is immoral and final. There have been too many cases of people sentenced to death that were later found innocent with new evidence, especially DNA.

There is also the case of the American who was charged with the Madrid Train Bombings because 4 fingerprint experts said it was him due to the "15 points of identical comparison" they observed. Luckily they found the real terrorist bomber who confessed, and guess what, the innocent man and the guilty man had 15 points of identical match in their fingerprints. This was once considered impossible, now it is not. ...... Eyewitnesses are also notoriously often wrong.

Life imprisonment, with no parole is a pretty severe punishment. Then God gets his turn ...... that is sufficient in my view.

I'd rather be given a death penalty, than a life sentence.

Yes, there are indeed ruthless criminals who have forfeited their right to keep breathing, and I understand why many people feel such a lust for lethal revenge. BUT, our legal system is hopelessly flawed, because it run by people, who are inherently flawed. We have biases and other imperfections. Forensics people, witnesses, detectives, prosecutors, judges and jurors all can and do make mistakes, and we also know that innocent people can be pressured and tricked into making false confessions. Innocent people get convicted. The appeals process, which can be lengthy and expensive, is designed to make sure a trial was run by the proper rules. It does not focus on whether the jury got it right; that is assumed. Dozens and dozens of innocent people have been sent to death row over the years. Only a delusional person would be convinced that none of them has ever been executed, and only someone who is insane with blood lust would believe it acceptable to continue this system that can never guarantee that not one innocent person is ever tried, convicted and executed.

To give the forgotten victims respect, California must inject.

The two things that may drive me from my beloved California: 1. Our elected officials. 2. Earthquakes

Everything else is pretty darn good.

So you are saying that if we sacrifice justice, because for many victims of death penalty type crimes that penalty is the only thing that will balance the scales, our elected officials will use the savings to pay down the state deficit or lower taxes? Did you type that with a straight face? No ma'am (or sir), I suspect that costs are simply the battle cry to push forward a liberal agenda that has no real intention of saving the taxpayer's money. And how much money do we already spend on education? Do you honestly believe that funding is the problem with California's educational system? I'd love to see the numbers on how much we spend per student per year. Time to stop throwing money at that problem and re-think the approach.

I'm quite sure the state could save an equal amount of money, if not more, by focusing on becoming more efficient and cost effective in just about every facet of government.

No. Leave justice on the table, thank you.

I'm surprised they still have it there.

The death penalty has "preferred seating."

This final "justice" overwhelmingly is applied to people of color and poor Caucasians.

We need to mirror other Western nations that have abolished the death penalty such as Canada, the United Kingdom, Italy and Switzerland and not be lock sync in step with China and Iran.

Empirical data has shown that administration of the death penalty is biased, riddled with errors, expensive and does not deter crime.

Why then are we still using this medieval form of punishment?

Political expediency is not a good enough reason.

Not to mention that the state should NEVER be able to murder its own citizens.

$308 million spent for every prisoner executed. That's not too bad for California. They just spent over $600 million on a high school. China executes about five thousand convicts every year, and they charge the family for the bullet.

Bullets are cheap...

Gee, are there any other Stalinist practices you'd like to implement, Andy?

Abolishing the death penalty could save California tens of millions of dollars, which could be redirected to solving rape and murder cases, Woodford said. Woodford, who oversaw four executions as warden, now heads Death Penalty Focus, which opposes the death penalty.

So just how much money will we be saving by having "life in prison"?

Justice for the victims has no cost.

I guess that it is okay for a murder to torture, rape, and molest their victims knowing that the worst they will get is live behind bars and how fair is that?

Charles Manson has been up for porole almost every seven years since he was convicted but Sharon Tate can not come back from the dead.

I want the Death Penalty as far as the people who think that it is inhumane how humane did some of these muderers like the hill side strangler treat there victims.

25Walker, hold your horses. Empirical data says no such thing. There is a very clear relationship between the death penalty and a reduction of violent crime, as has been shown in a number of reliable studies. Now, the other stuff you bring up is a problem, but cause/effect is still debatable.

Life is not so precious that it has to be protected at all costs. It is simple. If one person will not live by societies rules, and refuses to stop taking the lives of innocents, then even simple math shows that their rights must be forfeit. The question you then have is it okay to have them take away rights of other inmates who have not murdered? I say clearly not. So is solitary for life, or death more humane? In theory, death is absolutely acceptable, provided that you can be 100% sure they did it. In practice, we still stink at getting an efficient, fair, and problem free court system. But in the rare cases where we know for sure they did it, and are likely to do it again, then there is nothing barbaric, medieval, or inhumane about protecting society from those who voluntarily choose to not abide by its most fundamental rules.

But I do say abolish the death penalty. Instead, let them free with a GPS tracking band, and put them on a publicly available list of murderers who are likely to repeat. Give details of their crime, and their location, so the public can avoid them. I am pretty sure that in states with loose gun laws, the problem of them repeating any murder will soon be an academic question, and peace will be restored to society.

Hasn't anyone read a single book by Charles Dickens? Hasn't anyone looked at crime statistics from countries with the death penalty compared to those without it? Hasn't anyone studied history and seen patterns related to brutal government practices versus civilized justice? Even basic Game Theory shows that tit-for-tat strategies eventually end with both players at a disadvantage. The death penalty should be completely abolished around the world, and maybe then the countries which are truly free and civilized will finally respect us.

David Riley-5419320 wrote:

I guess that it is okay for a murder to torture, rape, and molest their victims knowing that the worst they will get is live behind bars

"The worst they will get?" I would think that life behind bars would drive most people insane, or at least into a very deep depression. Knowing that one could never get out of jail to be able to enjoy the simple freedoms one once took for granted is about as opposite to a day at Disneyland with family or friends, as one can get.

I also believe that people are fallible, which make the death penalty a dangerous thing. Of course most people would prefer death over life in prison! Esp. with no possibility of parole. For the families, there is no closure knowing another person is dead. Closure comes whenever the person decides for it to come. Our justice system lags behind other industrialized countries because we still execute our citizens. Think of China... and how many innocents they've killed. I'm sure countries like Canada wonder how many we have. It's past time to let this go and just do life without parole. They aren't a danger to anyone on the outside anymore, but if there WAS a chance they didn't do what they were convicted of, then they didn't die wrongly by anyone's hand.

Dr.- They are already insane, wtf makes you think being behind bars in a liberal prison, making sure you are taken care of as well as any other person, is punishment to them. Are you out of your mind?

Government, which in this country is us, killing people is wrong, end of story. If you have an issue with that, I suggest that you take it up with your maker, whoever you think that is. My maker, which is humanity, and therefore atheist by a christian definition, says this is wrong. But, I say, the higher morality of humanity says, "Thou shalt not kill!".

@trudat

Liberal prison? Now not only colleges are liberal, but prisons are as well? Hmm.

But besides that, yeah, for some reason I have this silly idea that being behind bars for life just wouldn't be that much fun. You can call me crazy, as much as you like, for that opinion.

When I think of Californians wanting to eliminate the death penalty, I think of what happened to that mother who was shot by a nurse in Houston and kidnapped her infant in cold blood.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-texas-baby-20120418,0,5463707.story

Seeing these immates getting treated way better, 3 meals a day, roof over their heads and way better heathcare than most unemployed Americans. That make me sick.

It only takes 40 cents for a round to the head. Cheaper if you use a noose. Just saying.......

Of course no one gets out alive.

photobiker

China executes about five thousand convicts every year, and they charge the family for the bullet.

Not a lot of things I'd give China credit for... but that idea is AWESOME!

A "liberal" prison? I've never seen one of those, trudat. Have you?

The death penalty worshippers are going to hate this!!! Just look at how some of our "civilized" fellow Americans speak about other Americans lives and just how bad they want to see someoneslife end in the name of justice and the remembrance of the "victims".

But when you get down to brass tacks they could care less about victims or justice, they simply want revenge, they want to relish in the thought of a man or woman getting dragged from their cell kicking and screaming begging for their life only to have some government employee read them their death warrant and smirk! Studies have shown that over 100% of the people who scream for the death penalty masturbate like monkeys at each and every thought of an execution and they orgasm uncontrollably when the possibility is high of executing someone who is indeed innocent!

So the thought process is that the death penalty discourages people from committing horrendous crimes, so if that is true then the best way to teach your dog to not kill cats is to kill several of them (cats) with a hammer, brush chipper, pick ax to show them that it is wrong?? Or would you do that to other dogs, kill them with a hammer, brush chipper, pick ax in front of the dog you are training, to show them that killing is wrong and that this is something that you simply do not do!!

Spades

You got it. California is bankrupt now, if they vote down the death penalty....WOW, it goes further in the hole. House and support ALL of the criminals you people in California let run loose NOW. Why incarcerate ANYONE????

I've worked with the families of victims whose killers were executed. I am here to tell you that there is no such thing as closure and that the death of the killer, albeit legal, does absolutely nothing but foster grief and perpetuate vengeance rather than justice.

The cause of death on an executed inmate's death certificate says homicide. I ask you, how long will we go on killing people to show that killing people is wrong?

I was a cop for 7 years until I was injured and had to change careers. At that time I was pro death penalty. Since then I have come to believe that the death penalty is just a matter of revenge. Revenge is something I've had a bit of experience with, and it is a hollow and haunting thing to live with after it's done, and accomplishes nothing but build up a guilt that can't be undone. Lock the worst up for life. It's probably a harsher punishment than execution. Killing is killing, and killing is hard to live with. Making it legal changes nothing. Abolish the death penalty.

Yeah, no more death penalty.......well until I come home and see my family slaughtered all over the house and the scumbag that did it admits it in court........and says nah, nah....I'll only get life, and college, and food, and medical and dental care and get paroled in 10 years....nah,nah... go to Norway today, and watch a guy describe how he used a car bomb to kill people, and then wore a police uniform calling the kids out of hiding and shot 60 + "KIDS" to death point blank in the face.....they could have been your kids "because" they were at a "Democratic or Republican Youth Rally Summer Camp".....and the self admitted mass murderer is only getting 21 years maximum....I'll bet all of you no death penalty advocates, that if someone butchered your family and you had absolute proof who did it, you wouldn't turn the other cheek, you'd be at the front of the line trying to kill them yourselves...........yeah, no more death penalty ....

China executes about five thousand convicts every year, and they charge the family for the bullet.

And yet another reason the Chinese are laughing their a$$es off at us here in the U.S. We've become so dumbed down as a society that we now reward murderers rather than deliver them justice like they do.

If it's a matter of economics, simple solution. When found guilty of intentional murder beyond a resonable doubt by a jury of your peers, give them one chance to appeal with a 12 month time limit. If the conviction is upheld, take 'em out back and shoot 'em.

Stupid is as California does.

Tax evasion is a death penalty crime in China. Do we really want to head in that direction?

when the accused has as much money to defend himself as the state has to convict then the scales of justice might be even. better to be rich and guilty than poor and innocent. i'm from the great state of wisconsin-the state that defied the federal government on the ''runaway slave act'' and has never had the death penalty. the great irony here is the ''right to life'' supporters also support the death penalty. go figure!

Can some legal eagle out ther explain to me how the "Proposition" system in Ca and other states squares with the Constitutionally mandated requirement that every state have a "republican" form of government, ie people elect legislators who in turn make the laws.

I'm against the death penalty, but in California's case, Iet's make an exception. When you want to see the freakiest, sickest crimes, you can always count on CA. These people are a waste of air.

I could care less what California does, But for 308 million they could clean out the entire prison system and start over that would put a dent in the cost of prisons. the problem is you have all those criminals sucking the system dry, and the lawyers are loving it its hard to make money on a executed murderer you have to keep them alive to make real money, Manson is a good example seven times he has gone before the parole board at tax payers expense why? you keep housing, feeding and medical services available for him why? California has spent millions on Manson why? maybe your whole system is the problem why not drop them off on some island and let them fend for themselves. just make sure there is nothing on the island that floats.

Its expensive? Maybe that is why it is called Capital punishment.

$47,000/year to incarcerate someone in CA

lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/sections/crim_justice/6_cj_inmatecost.aspx?catid=3

Obvious Points if its about saving money-

Confession to crime punishable by execution = No Appeals = Execution in 24 hours

Absolute proof of guilt of crime PBE = No Appeals = Execution in 24 hours

Request by criminal for Execution = Execution in 24 hours

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt = 3 appeal limit = Execution in 24 hours after final appeal

Heinous Crimes (murder/rape etc) = No procedural excuses (Confession before Miranda) type travesty of justice where something like an "absolute proof" video tape is inadmissible evidence.

Life Imprisonment = Intended to last the life of the convict. This should also be equivalent to a court enforced DNR order. No extraordinary measures such as transplants, extensive and expensive cancer care, etc.... comfort care only, unless paid for by the inmate, the inmates family, or a non-taxpayer funded entity.

Prison should not be comfortable, merely live able.

Uncomfortable Fact #1: Executions reduce the number of wrongful imprisonment settlements.

Uncomfortable Fact #2: A sentence which exceeds the potential limit of remaining life of the convict cannot be served, therefore a harsher punishment, i.e. execution, is warranted.

Undeniable Truth: A person guilty (undeniably so) of murder has taken everything the victim has or ever will have away from them. A murderer has removed themselves from the constraints of society and obligated society to act against them through some form of punishment equal to the offense of having taken everything another person has or ever will have. The discussion here, is "What punishment is equal to taking life?" We have taken severe punishment (torture and inhumane incarceration) off the table in an effort to be "civilized", which leaves execution as the most fitting punishment, followed by lifetime incarceration.

I usually try to keep it light and comical. Very hard to succed in comical commentary on this subject though.

I believe some people deserve to die but i don't think is a good idea to give our government the power to legally kill people they are too corrupt to be trusted. There is a way we could save money though we could offer elective death to any prisoner who is in jail for more than 5 years. If you're in jail and you'd rather die than do your time you could apply for elective death there would be a 6 month waiting period then you would be released into the great beyond. It would be cheaper than keeping them in jail for their full term and certainly cheaper than the death penalty and many more prisoners would elect to die than the number of executions we have today. We could even build a self serve machine like a booth that you stand in an shackle your feet to the floor then fill with water up to your neck then a button that would fill it the rest of the way. Push the button and you drown I've heard that drowning is fairly painless and pretty quick 1 or 2 minutes then you lose consciousness so the prisoner is responsible for killing them self and the machine wouldn't cost much and water is cheap.

Elected California Official:

It would be interesting to know where you got that 1 million number from, considering OJ's 1995 trial cost California upwards of 9 million (and he was aquitted). The Casey Anthony trial is expected to be over 5 million, and we all know how that turned out.

In California in 2009, it cost an average of $47,102 a year to incarcerate an inmate in state prison. From 2001 to 2009, the average annual cost increased by about $19,500. In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or on probation/parole.

Your statement regarding appeals is obviously reversed, as follows:

A later change to the statute was in 1978 after Proposition 7 passed. This gave an automatic appeal to the Supreme Court of California, which would directly affirm or reverse the sentence and conviction without going through an intermediate appeal to the California Courts of Appeal.

This Bill is also tied to the California SAFE Act, which would maintain that inmates would work and contribute restitution to victims. Admirable thought, until the reality of the situation surfaces. What type of employment would murderers be able to accomplish from San Quentin? Complex calculations for the Aerospace industry? Likely they would be calling YOUR house at dinnertime tyring to sell you a Sham-WOW. Maybe they could solicit donations for Feinstein or Boxer. In any case, the State creates positions, an agency to oversee them, funnels A PORTION back into a victim's relief fund, and tells everyone how much money they're saving. Another entitlement program paid with your tax dollars.

From my perspective, it would save millions more and by curbing the prosecution of cases that lack evidence. Prosecutorial misconduct is at an all time high, fueled by political ambitions and the lynch mob mentality.

The Innocence project has freed 289 people wrongfully convicted using DNA evidence. You can't fix a judicial mistake after they have been executed.

@25Walker,
You suggest we look at how other countries handle the death penalty? Well consider this for a moment. The average time spent in a British prision for murder is less than 15 years and in some cases, only 8-10 years. Why? The system in these countries gives "time off for good behaviour" which can reduce a 25 year sentence (what a life term is) by 1/3. So, in effect, the victims family WILL LIVE TO SEE THE MURDERER WALKING THE STREETS. Add to this that people hate the costs of building prisions and so you also have from time to time prison release schemes to reduce overcrowding. Does anyone really care how "well behaved" a felon is? Particularly one that has killed?
Then you have the travesty of what happened in Norway playing out. That guy is going to get 21 years for killing 70 plus people. Oh, I know, people will say he will be kept inside for longer, but what happens is as time goes on, the general public forget the murder that happened all those years ago and suddenly parole hearings and the possibility of a release arises. European counties often demonstrate what we call "lower murder rates", because statistics can always be tweaked. It't not the death penalty that is the problem, it's the ridiculuous appeal process. Appeals should be limited to one or two and after that, sentences should be carried out within a year of the final appeal. Oh, I know, people will shout about evidence mismanagement etc. but here's a thought....IF YOU KNEW THAT THE APPEALS PROCESS WASN'T GOING TO WORK FOR YOU, WOULDN 'T YOU TAKE BETTER CARE NOT TO COMMIT THE CRIME?
And if you really want to save money in the prison system, get them out of their cells doing all the crappy jobs that don't get done because of budget cutbacks. Building roads, clearing deadwood in fire season, quarry work, whatever. Make them work. Remember, they owe US, not the other way around.

The Conservative Think tank devoted to defend capital punishment stated it would stop doing so a few years back.

Even conservative now agree that capital punishment has very little to do with justice. It is a racist, classist system that is expensive and doesn't deter crime.

What's the point?

The death penalty period, is for banana republics.

The list of nations with the highest execution rates...

1. China

2. Iran

3. N. Korea

4. Yemen

5. U.S.A

6. Saudi Arabia

7. Lybia

8. Syria

9. Bangladesh

10. Somalia

Wow, we're keeping some good company.

Conservative estimations of cost, by the Adminstration of Fair Justice...

1. To keep the death penalty as is... $137 mil/year

2. To reform the death penalty and apply it fairly... $232.7 mil/year

3. If we were to cease the death penalty and apply life without parole... $11.5 mil/year

And that's just in California. Hmmm, so we're paying that much to be like China, Yemen and N. Korea??? You can say all day long that if we just "cut out appeals" or toss them all in a bathtub with a blow dryer, it will be cheaper, however, I like to adhere to a little document we call the CONSTIUTION.

What about due process...

1. 96% of the states where there have been reviews of the death penalty show either race of victim discrimination or race of defendant discrimination.

2. Those who kill whites are over 3 times more likely to be executed.

3. There is an average of 3.1 exonerations per year, where death row inmates are released due to having been wrongfully convicted.

I could go on, examining education and poverty levels of those who are executed, but alas I only have so much time.

How about criminal prevention...

1. 88% of expert criminologists reject the idea that the death penalty deters crime.

2. The FBI Uniform Crime Statistics Report found that the south had both the highest murder rate, and the highest execution rate.

And if that doesn't convince you, how about this...

"He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy."

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

"This is what the Lord Almight says: 'Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another."

"That which you do unto the least of your bretheren, you do unto me."

"And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."

Jesse G-341147

There have been too many cases of people sentenced to death that were later found innocent with new evidence, especially DNA.

Exactly.

When examining death penalty cases, Illinois discovered an abundance of errors in statements, trials, court papers, etc.

Thus, Illinois declared a moratorium on capital sentencing.

Illinois is a northern state with financial resources.

The above state has a pensive stance on this issue.

In the South, there are probably an unconscionable number of death penalty errors...where applying the death penalty is viewed as simple as changing one's socks.

How many people have been executed that were truly innocent?

Only God knows.

Capital punishment should be abolished to avoid "final" errors.

@Zathrose

ummm that was dumb and made no sense.

"Abolishing the death penalty could save California tens of millions of dollars, which could be redirected to solving rape and murder cases, Woodford said." Now the article says that executing one of these animals costs 308 million dollars, but the state is going to save ONLY "tens of millions", meaning LIFE in prison is just about as costly (duh). And I am telling you what...the safety of MY children cannot be measured in money. We need to END the violence against our children in the country.

Fix the REAL problem...the appeals process...was it so hard for these so called educated people to see where the problem really lies? One appeal within a year...execute within a month...ohh and bullets and rope are way cheaper !

Who cares that these liberal judges think it is inhumane...would it be more humane if we exectued the scum in the manner in which their victims died? I am up for suggetions

Here is something to think about for anyone in favor of the death penalty, especially speeding-up the process to save money. This is a list of 100 juveniles sentenced as adults for murders that later it was proven that they did not commit:

http://cwcy.org/exonereesView.aspx

The number of adults convicted of first and second-degree violent felony crime who have later been exonerated is now in the mid 4-figure range just over the last 20 years.

Are you so blinded by a need for revenge and in-favor of the death penalty that you would rather have the blood of thousands of innocent victims on your hands just so that you can feel like you got even?

How about America instead goes back to sentencing criminals like our European cousins do where the primary focus of incarceration is for rehabilitation and eventual release back to society, certainly in the case of first-time violent offenders and young people?

To all my people who collapsed my comment: you are cowards. We are losing our country slowly but surely to the mexican gangs infesting LA, Oakland, San Jose, Salinas, King City, National City, I could go on and on.

If you are running around with your pants down past your asscrack, and you think toting a 9mm makes you hard, and you scream "13" or "14" at the top of your lungs: you are a no good scum sucking POS excuse for a human being and you should be eliminated from the gene pool. Take you trash back the scum of a country you crawled out of and leave our peace loving American people alone.

2. To reform the death penalty and apply it fairly... $232.7 mil/year

That all depends on how you reform it.

I think the death penalty should only apply if guilt is proven 100%. Zero doubt. And in these cases, the execution should be carried out within an hour of the guilty verdict.

No appeals. No waiting. No feeding scum with tax dollars longer than needed.

Feeding and housing for a whole lifetime costs a lot LESS money than paying all the legal bills for death penalty cases. I am all for frying, shooting, or hanging them. I would do it myself for some of those evil people, were it legal. Studies even show it is effective in reducing violent crime. But on a strictly cost basis, death is more expensive by far.

Actually, for once, I think they are doing something right! I abhor capital punishment. It is a barbaric practice and needs to be eliminated across the country. I am definitely becoming a conservative but I guess not on this topic!

Viewer...actually you are the idiot. Of all the states that still have CP on the books, CA has the most INSANELY long process. Convicts can set on death row for up to 20 years or more with the MANDATORY appeals process required by CA law and the cost of that is enormous in comparison to just throwing them in a cage and throwing away the key.

Linda, you can abhor it all you want, but a society that allows evil people to take the rights of others is not, and cannot ever be considered to be free. Even in prison, the violent ones continue to take away the rights of less violent offenders. So really, you have a choice between darn close to solitary, or just allowing rights to be taken away by the most violent in society. When you couple that with the fact that studies show a VERY clear correlation between death penalty and a reduction in violent crimes, you can see in no uncertain terms that putting those few to death who will not stop taking away the rights of others, saves lives.

If it were not for the question of the innocents, and the cost, then clearly those opposed to the death penalty must certainly always be the ones who are called barbaric. There is a difference between being squeamish and being morally right. If we could ever solve the problems of cost, and of wrongful conviction, then the ONLY clear morally justified choice would be execution, in many cases. When you allow others to take awayt he rights of innocents, or even of those in jail who have not done as much wrong, then it is you who are unjustifiably barbaric.

But, the wrongful conviction and related problems are a very big headache which might not prove realistically possible to solve. The cost surely is a factor, too.

Not sure what's more of a drain to our tax $$$, death penalty, or life in prison. The point is to remove subjects detrimental to our society from it. Keep the death penalty for cases that call for it, and don't let the subjects hang around for years on end.

Viewer...actually you are the idiot. Of all the states that still have CP on the books, CA has the most INSANELY long process. Convicts can set on death row for up to 20 years or more with the MANDATORY appeals process required by CA law and the cost of that is enormous in comparison to just throwing them in a cage and throwing away the key.

Libtardism has taken over in California. Gov. Moonbeam will soon set them free.

That's why Texas is a great place. Try 'em and then fry 'em.

Oh great, now what will we do with all our criminals? Let them accumulate until our jails are bursting at the seam? And then what? Send them to space after they take all the land? They wont die fast enough, there will be major accumulation of criminals and no place to put them. Not to mention you have to pay for new buildings, feeding, entertaining them (optional), providing basic needs for them, etc let alone find a place for them. Want to know what Britain did to its overflow of criminals? They sent them to colonies. Theres no new places to send them but space. Sounds a lot like a movie thats coming out soon. Just cant wait for all the walls to just cave in and total chaos breaks loose.

Why? Why is it so damn expensive to get the job done? where does the money go? Let me push the button, hold the rope, give the injection. I'll do it free.

@Don

Just like Republitardism (I can make up words too) has taken over Texas. Stick to the affairs of your own state, and we'll keep to the affairs of ours.

I wonder how many people who's daughter, sister, even brother, or wife were raped, strangled, tortured, dismembered and all the other things these creatures do, would still say how "barbaric" the death penalty is? I am certain the coin would "flip" then. People LOVE to cry "foul" until it ends up in their own back yard.

Oilman, idiot. Change the laws so it does not drag out. Put these people that commit murders to death in the same manner as they killed. Why are we so concerned with being soft on these people? They took life and should have their life taken. One appeal, that's it. The same for serial rapists, molesters, and drug dealers that can be proven the drugs they provided took a life.

Rather than sentencing them to death row where they spend 20 years appealing their sentence, I'd rather them get life without the possibility of parole spent entirely in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT. And I mean 100 percent, 24/7/365 solitary.

Put them in a little cell by themselves for the rest of their lives, with no human/animal contact or interaction, no phones, no media, no books, no exercise, no nothing, NEVER, until they are dead.

Surely that would be a punishment worse than death, and much cheaper.

Oh great, now what will we do with all our criminals? Let them accumulate until our jails are bursting at the seam?

Oh yes, because those 13 people they executed in the last 35 years sure kept the prison population down.

Because sadly as one comedian pointed out a number of years ago:

"California's legislators in Sacramento are like a big bowl of granola ... Who isn't fruits and nuts are flakes. Just look at Boxer and Feinstein and the new mayor of San Francisco "

I must say I agree, they have completely screwed up the golden state. Every Californian now feels like we're the "golden shower state" not the "golden state".

Don4331:

I guess you don't mind that over the years, 140 condemned inmates were exonerated. This means at least 140 were wrongly condemned to death, of them 12 in Texas. How many were wrongly put to death, only God knows. Rick Perry didn't hesitate to sign execution of Cameron Willingham in 2004, despite flawed expert testimony. "A new report from a national arson expert, prepared for the Texas Forensic Science Commission, has concluded that the original investigation of Willingham's case was seriously flawed and could not support a finding of arson"

Well, I personally don’t care which way it goes. This is probably due to the fact that I’d rather just skip the rest of this particular lifetime than spend it behind bars. In other words, life in prison seems a much harsher punishment to me than death. So I don’t mind people being for the death penalty - that is as long as they harbor no illusions that it is somehow a deterrent to murder. Murder is not a rational act and those who do murder are going to do so regardless of how severe the penalties are. And if we are being completely honest with ourselves we have to admit that the death penalty is primarily about retribution, nothing more nothing less. Of course it would also clear up some space in our prisons but ironically the same people who are usually for the death penalty are also the same ones who think drug users should be locked-up. And there are probably 50 low-level drug users taking up space in our prisons for every single murderer there is in prison. This should not come as much of a surprise to anyone however as most people on both sides of this issue are not particularly capable of rational though.

Time to get out of this state, this confirms it has really gone to hell

FactoftheMatter -

"Just like Republitardism (I can make up words too) has taken over Texas. Stick to the affairs of your own state, and we'll keep to the affairs of ours."

Good..........then you can keep your socialized medicine to your state as well.

Are you becoming a conservative Linda, well good luck finding a party that represents your views

13 people executed but in that time 56 others have died while on death row. Seems to me they pretty much already have life without parole. So why not just make it life? Especially if it's going to save the state $184 million a year.

Viewer -

They reelect Pelosi year after year, dont expect much common sense from Californians.

Every Californian now feels like we're the "golden shower state" not the "golden state".

PLEASE don't assume you're speaking for every Californian. I will absolutely vote to abolish the death penalty. As someone pointed out above, I think for some prisoners, it's the easy way out. How much harder must it be to sit and rot in a prison, knowing that you will never, EVER get out, than to have the chance to escape - albeit through death. Not only that, if the prisoner has any conscience at all, they will have to live with what they've done - and possibly regret it - for the rest of their lives. Contrary to popular opinion, not all prisoners are without a conscience. (Watch 48 Hrs. on A&E if you don't believe me. The #1 way the cops get someone to confess is by making them feel guilty about what they've done.) Also, as many have pointed out, it is much more expensive to go through the lengthy appeals process, than it is to lock them up for life. And, finally, I have a hard time believing that we, as humans, have a right to decide if/when someone should live or die. I believe a person will die when their time is up and they've learned all they can. I DO NOT, however, think they should ever be paroled - unless there is hard evidence proving that they weren't the doer. And, I also don't believe there's EVER a reason to deny a person the chance to prove their innocence through DNA.

Ever heard of overcrowding and underfunding? Immates are being released early only serving like 20% of their sentences. Since this is California, I won't be surprised if they let out early

The death penalty was reinstated in California in 1978. Since then, 13 people have been executed, according to Death Penalty Focus. The Los Angeles Times reported that $4 billion has been .pent to administer capital punishment –- about $308 million per execution.

308 million eh? Apparently Texas is doing something right since it cost them 2.3 million per execution. No wonder California's budget is in the gutter. You know whats cheap? Eye for an Eye. You kill someone, then the victim's family should do the same to the killer. Only cost 40 cents per 45 round to the head.

For the states which employ the death penalty, this luxury comes at a high
price. In Texas, a death penalty case costs taxpayers an average of $2.3
million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at
the highest security level for 40 years.(3) In Florida, each execution is
costing the state $3.2 million.(4) In financially strapped California, one
report estimated that the state could save $90 million each year by abolishing
capital punishment.(5) The New York Department of Correctional Services
estimated that implementing the death penalty would cost the state about $118
million annually.(6)

http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html

Who do we kill if the state makes a mistake and someone innocent is executed? The judge? The prosecutors? The defense attorney?

Just like Republitardism (I can make up words too) has taken over Texas. Stick to the affairs of your own state, and we'll keep to the affairs of ours.

FactofNoMatter-1981569

No I won't. I'll say what I please.

Kalifornika is further going down the sh!tter due to excessive libtardism and when the crime rate goes up even further because Gov. Moonbeam has set them free, then you'll have only yourselves to blame.

Besides, I'm not from Texas although I strongly support the death penalty there.

Oh yeah. California liberals are just famous for going against the majority vote, if they don't like it.

This is called the vote. Don't like it? Too bad. CA is correct with what they want to do. It does seem that other states do follow the path of CA - don't they? This state is great! They don't put up with NOSEY employers that check Facebook or make you surrender to strip searches if companies want to do them. And they don't want to kill. Those that want to murder others with one appeal... are you crazy? How many have been released based on DNA and other advanced technology? If you kill just ONE innocent person, you are the murderer. So, based on your theory we can put YOU in prison for murder. They should make those in the prisons who actually do the injections made public. They are cowards hiding behind a curtain. COWARDS and lowlifes. Dr's and nurses can not do them because they would lose their license. The first part of their oath is "do no harm".

When lawyers are involved, nothing is cheap.

Appeal after appeal after appeal after... By that point, people are more likely to start killing THEMSELVES.

Gee, maybe California should think about outlawing murder !

If it cost California 308 million per execution, no wonder that state is in the dumps financially.

They should do like Texas and install "Express Lines" .

Yes Deacon, we do great with our express lanes here. So far we have only killed about 9 or 10 people that were innocent. Great record I would say.

Ng , now on CA death row videotaped torturing and murdering women and children , even infants !

First , many years to extradite from Canada until the Canadian citizens realized a serail killer would be released into THEIR society and extradition granted !

Then he kept changing lawyers and finally on death row for many years !

There may be life without parole but not life without pardon ! The father of our current California governer paroled some bad dudes and half murdered again !

Life guaranteed and I will vote to abolish ,anything else no way ! The bleeding hearts here in California will release these monsters back into society !

Cop Killers need the death penalty, regardless of the cost!

It was the U.S. Supreme Courth that abolished the death penalty, not a Californian judge.

Stupid, bleeding-heart liberal Californians.

If you detest it so much, then why do you stay? Why not move to a more conservative state that better suits your values?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm just curious because I see this a lot on these forums, conservative Californians who hate it there because they think the state is too "liberal", yet they stay.

Occam...huh? WTF makes a cop's life worth more than someone who isn't a cop?

OilmanMD... great point. A cop's life is no better or worse than my own.

Thank goodness for Liberals. The last time a conservative had any say so, he killed over 7000 people. It is called the war in Iraq. George Bush.

raddave, makes no sense. If the supreme court abolished the death penalty, then why do we have it.

Has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has to do with spending millions of dollars per murderer to give each over 20 years of lawyers to see if an error occurred all at the taxpayers expense.

Would you rather pay less in taxes or keep paying money to lawyers and murderers?

Research Charles NG , now on CA death row !

A true monster and he videotaped his torutre and murders ! !

UpUranus makes a good point, whats up with everyone complaining about crap that is allowed in other states but keep staying battling it out with a majority in thier state that disagrees with them? Within the united states we have middle ground states, states that slightly lean to the left or to the right and others that are extremely right or left wing.

Wouldn't it be a good idea for everyone to take thier personal views to the state that best matches thier ideologies? We can all live in peace and when your individual policies fail or prosper it wont affect anyone but yourselves and you would have no one else to blame.

I never agreed with NYS gun laws because I saw how law abiding citizens were left helpless to criminals that disregarded the laws. As a liberal democrat I saw major flaws in my party in contrast with fundamentals I believed in, I now live in Arizona as an independent that is quickly becoming more and more conservative. Politically I couldn't have picked a better state and the fact that I no longer have to shovel my driveway in the winter well that was a bonus.

Reba,

Well over 7,000 - in excess of 200,000 if you count Iraqi lives. But that doesn't get much airtime on the various news networks.

David, and you will lose.

Appeals should last as long as they do. This has to do with people's lives. You can't bring someone back from the dead after they were proved to be innocent with evidence such as DNA. How many DA's out there are ruthless bastards? All they want is to win, win, win. Even after they are proven wrong they still say they were right. Idiots.

Not true about no such thing as life without the possibility of release. Many states now have it with CONN being the last one. Manson was "entitled" to a parole hearing because when the CA death penalty was struck down in 1972, every state had the option of giving each a new trial or changing it to LWOP (life without the possibility of parole).

Are you George Bush in hiding? Execute someone innocent moron. Go ahead and then maybe we can execute you for no brains. How many have been set free from Death Row? PLENTY.

Has any else noticed how these conservatives talk about God, religion, family values and morals but they are always the first to want to kill some one, put a gun in your face, shoot you for walking through their property or neighborhood or start a war somwhere, I can't quite understand their twisted way of thinking.

Shawn.

I am also a native 6th generation Californian and was born and raised in Los Angeles. I am retired and working toward a graduate degree in social work. I am no longer a resident of CA. However, I was just reading something about Death Row in San Quentin having some ungodly number of condemmed inmates in the "condemmed inmates area." Before I retired from the Army a colleague of mine in Army legal told me that it costs far more to execute one of these people than it does to "warehouse them."

I persosonally see nothing wrong with the death penalty. However, as it is practiced in the U.S. I fail to see it as a deterrent in regard to preventing perps from unlawfully taking the life of another with special circumstances. Correct me, if I am wrong, but in 2007 when I was in Iraq I read that California had executed Tookie Williams. When I was just leaving grammar school I remember hearing about the horrible murders that this thug carried out for about $40.00. I seem to remember that he was sentenced to death in CA. That guy had been on Death Row all the time I was in intermediate school, high school, USMA, and by the time I had been in the Army 18 years and had a date for retirement he was finally going to be executed. Moreover, I remember that in that article there were cases mentioned of "some real old imnate with dementia being executed, whose last words were to thank the prison staff for taking such good care of him and alleviating his pain from terminal cancer?"

Even in states that have a fast track for them to "ride the needle" it just takes too long to execute these pukes for the death penalty, in my mind, "to be a deterrent." One reason I hear that it takes so long in CA is that law firm attys. that are certified to defend and appeal death penalty cases are not giving as many pro bono hours as they used to routinely devote to these matters. Moreover, I understand that it is a hassle for an atty. to bevome certified to appeal death penalty cases and they say that "there is no money in it."

If it is true that there are "over 600 condemmed inmates in California's death row, and that the majority of them die of disease, suicide, and "old age," I just do not know what to say; other than it would be cheaper to put all of these monsters in the prison general population as it is my understanding that "warehousing them in death row" is much more costly than is regular incarceration.

I do not have an answer for this problem. However, I was really shocked to hear that my home state has over 600 condemmed inmates that they cannot get rid of?

V/r,

LTC Rattus, USA, ret.

so Reba how many dead will it take to convince you that some people just should be put to death? if your family got killed and you got butt phacked would you want that person dead? if not, then it is you who are a moron and a idiot without self preservation. not one truly innocent person got executed, ever. i truly hope something horrible happens to you or your family and who ever does it just gets 20 years or so in prison for it.

To those attacking me read what I wrote..." If a defendant pleads guilty to murder or DNA places him at the crime scene". If your DNA is at the crime scene then you did it, if you plead guilty then you are not innocent!

Of course I don't want innocent people executed.

@petergriffin:

Since 1970s, while some 1200 people were executed, 140 people (over one in ten) were exonerated from the death row. How many people not deserving to die were still executed, nobody knows. Read about case of Cameron Willingham. He was executed, despite a new report from a national arson expert, prepared for the Texas Forensic Science Commission, has concluded that the original investigation of Willingham's case was seriously flawed and could not support a finding of arson. Gov Pick Perry signed off on the execution.

Shawn you're missing several points in the legal system. First, DNA placing someone at the scene of the crime doesn't always mean that they actually committed the crime. Second, defendants don't usually plead guilty unless there is a plea deal. Third innocent individuals actually do plead guilty to less crimes for fear of being unable to win a case. And, finally, in an imperfect justice system, allowing the death penalty gives an opportunity for a prosecutor to use it to appear to be tough on crime. In those cases, the person handling the prosecution is often more interested in another notch in their belt as opposed to discovering the truth of what actually happened. If you think that all prosecutors are going to follow you're defined set of rules for what constitutes guilt... well.... then you really need to look over more cases of prosecutors overreaching and winning due to a horrid defense attorney.

If you don't actually want innocent people to be executed, then you can't really support the death penalty because in an imperfect system mistakes will be made. I'm quite sure that you can't claim our justice system is flawless so the only way you can really support the death penalty is if you're willing to allow a few innocent individuals to be executed in order to still be able to use the death penalty in other cases.

petergriffin1234

Unless you are God you have NO idea if an innocent person has been executed. No, I would not want the death penalty for anyone under any circumstances.

I find it odd that conservatives are pro death penalty and then pro-life. That is why conservatives continue to support the biggest mass murderer in recent times... George W Bush. Where did he go by the way? Which rock is he living under these days?

How about too many brains, which apparently you don't use much.

Too many brains? Go back where you came from, or learn English!

Murderer. Is that clear enough for ya?

Are you seriously suggesting that we let hard-core criminals out into the public with no punishment whatsoever? I can't fathom your unbelievable level of stupidity...

No, prison for life is correct. The death penalty is wrong... Steven, get on the right page moron.

And what do you do when you execute an innocent person? Have a seance and say SORRYYYYYY!! This is NOT a game.

Dumbasses; next they should petition for life sentences being "cruel and unusual" and then let them all out after 20...the only restriction of course being, they can't leave the state...have fun Cali!

@ Reba, Do you not have reading comprehension? I said that I am a believer in capital punishment when the case and evidence prove guilt beyond a shadow of doubt. I stated " executed murderers do not kill again ". I also said that life without parole would be a better option. Unfortunately, innocent people die every day. Get use to it, it's not going to change. Even if you do away with the death penalty, an innocent person in prison can still get killed in there. We don't live in a Utopian society. If we did, we would not be on here trading differences on opinions here.

Reba, can definitely tell you are a liberal. When you do not agree with people, you get personal and call names. Typical signature card for a liberal. Hope you never have a close one that is cut up in to pieces and murdered. Maybe you ought to look at pictures of people that have been murdered. Wrongly convicted people in the past was a very small percentage. With today's technology, it would almost nonexistent.

WEEEEEEE! Such a slippery slope, Radikal. Next time when you try to make an point, don't use logical fallacies.

I am NOT a liberal and I agree with Reba!

War, there are many numerous cases where it was "proven beyond any reasonable doubt" that the person was guilty, only to be discovered later that future evidence exonerated them. Also, yes innocent people do die every day. That's no excuse to support a practice that results in an innocent person dying.

Do you live there? No? Shut up.

EXCUSE ME!!!! Is it impossible to have a trading of opinions without all the insults and name calling? I would like to think that these great states are inhabited by free thinking individuals whom are intelligent enough to think for themselves without resorting to school yard name shenanigans. Please, we got enough issues already.

And Reba, I do believe Tigerboy does live there as he stated " why this state is in financial trouble ". That would lead me to assume that he is from California and therefor entitled to his opinion as to what goes on there.

.

War,

I live in CA too for your information. The public opinion is swaying towards getting rid of the death penalty. If you don't live in CA, you don't have much to say, do you....

Innocent people die every day... that is beyond a stupid comment. By the way, nice handle... WAR. Related to George Bush by chance?

And, I have been on a jury in a murder trial. The attorneys dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with the death penalty and the main question they ask is could you execute based on a reasonable doubt, not without a shadow of a doubt.

@Reba,

Once again, you have not experienced the loss of a loved one by a convicted murderer, have you?

And yes, I grew up in Sacramento. Florin Rd. area to be exact and graduated from JFK H.S. in said same area. Then moved with my mother to Petaluma, which is just south of Santa Rosa. I got out of California as soon as I possibly could. That entailed joining the Army, but it got me out of that jacked up state.

As for my call sign, " WAR ", it relates to the perpetual state of man. Man is violent. Always has been. If you believe in God, then he made us this way and we are stuck with it. If you believe in Darwinism, ( evolution ), then nature made us this way and again, we are stuck with it. War and violence has settled more issues through out history than any other method. Sad, but true. If they are dead, then they cause no more problems, and there are some people on this planet that just need to die. The world would be better off without them, even if by just a little bit. You can call me what you will, the names will not bother me in the least. Whatever you think up, I've heard worse.

Most of mans ills and animosity to one another can be related to a single factor, RELIGION. It itself has caused more strife and misery than anything else. I've seen first hand what religion does for man. From the Muslims, Serbs, Croats, etc. in Kosovo whom have been killing each other for centuries, Sunni, Shiite sects, and all the different denominations of Christianity, i.e., Catholic, Baptist, Protestant all fighting in the name of God. And we help train them to be better hunters. If there is a God and he made us in his image, then he must be the SFOD-D Master Operator of the Universe, because we are good at killing each other and got our traits from him/her/she/it or whatever.

I wish sometime that I was not so good at what I do or did. It may have saved me some ugly sights. But I think everyone has an innate talent if they only can find it. To bad mine was being a soldier and hunting other humans. That alone will show you the true nature of man. It isn't going to change any time soon. Get accustomed to it. Many headaches and personal wars with yourself can be avoided or at least locked away if you realize.

Blah, blah, blah. The death penalty is wrong and I would not budge from my perspective for any reason. Death does not satisfy another death.

If you want to put it that way, then maybe you should have your father killed for the 57 dollars in his register. A sad situation for a 9 year old. All because someone thought someone elses life was worth less than $60. Maybe your son, daughter, mother, father etc., should be shot down in cold blood and then see how you feel about it. Have your daughter or mother raped then murdered and see how you feel about it. I can tell from your post that you are the kind of person that is so bull-headed that no point of view except your own is even worth considering. You only care about what you believe, f-ck everyone else no matter what has happened in their lives. I say FU-K YOU unless you have been there and experienced it first hand. Then maybe you can see both sides and decide for yourself with input from different perspectives. But, from your posts, I seriously doubt it.

Don't bother responding as correspondence between us is now finished.

SGM -

You still can't seem to shake your California roots after all these years.

The two that did in 17 people in Ca for fun and loaded a well with them are good members of YOUR society but not mine. Admire them all you want and give them the best health care in the world and first in line for organ transplants but not on my dime. You pay for it! Give them a great long life for what they did to innocents.

So do tell Reba, your OK with Charles Manson still living? The motto is die adult die, babies are to be protected.

@ Reba, have you ever had a loved one or close friend murdered or die in your arms? If not, then you have no basis to judge what others who have, think or feel about it. Take my word for it, when you see someone you care about shot or blown up, YOU WANT PAYBACK! Sorry girl, but it is true. It pisses you off so bad that you want revenge or vengeance, call it what you will. It's human nature, but only when you have experienced it first hand.

Sorry but the criminal justice system isn't there to provide personal vengeance to family members of victims. It's there to benefit society by removing criminals from the general population. The only argument in favor of the death penalty is an emotional one. All rational arguments point against it: it's more expensive than life in prison, numerous studies have shown it isn't a deterrent, it is impossible to guarantee that an innocent person isn't being executed (while DNA evidence is highly reliable, it can still be planted).

@ChicagoRedSox,

Very good argument and response, but in the end, if you are arbitrarily willing to take a life as a commission of crime or in the commission of a crime, then you should be willing to give your life in forfeit.

It really has nothing to do with cost..... Capital Punishment is a joke, after all it takes so many years for it to happen that it is not a determent..... This OOOO BUT AN INOCENT PERSON COULD BE KILLED is just liberal bs.....

For Ohguy. The reason why it takes an incredible length of time is that there are many cases where the individual was convicted and exonerated a very long time afterwards.

Here are some examples for you to browse. I'll leave it to you to look through them for death penalty cases.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/Browse-Profiles.php

Typical conservative.... deny reality and documented examples of problems while pretending a system they believe in is absolutely perfect...

Accepts illegals? Really?

Yeah, Reba. It is called sanctuary cities where multiple illegals that stay in these cities have committed crimes and murders. If your state abided by the constitution, they would have had the illegals deported so they could not commit crimes.

Actually thats kind of true. I mean its still "illegal" to be in the country Illegally in the state of CA but, because of the overall and general acceptance of people that feel its ok to bypass our established immigration process it is a so called "sanuctuary" state.

The politicians know it too, thats why they are going so hard against states like AZ that are taking matters into thier own hands due the federal governments lack of substancial enforcement. If AZ and similar states succeed ALL of the illegals or people that are here illegally will flock to states like CA. No one denies this, its logical. Why stay where you are not wanted?

Now if this happens we all know what will happen to whatever is left of the CA economy but if you publicly admit that you're a racist or insensitive at the very least.

CA is not that type of state. Look up Proposition 187. It passed with flying colors not to give illegals medical care, schooling, etc. Who struck it down? The Supreme Court. No, CA is not a sanctuary state. It never has been.

Having Charles Manson still alive? Hmm, he hasn't commited a crime to the outside in how many years? I think that system is working nicely.

Ask the family of victims in a year if the execution was that satisfying, I bet you get a NO answer. Did it bring back their loved one? No. And what if you were a member of that family and learned the person executed was innocent. How would you feel then? The actual murderer walking free... would you like that feeling? Sounds like it to me. As long as a person pays for the crime, innocent or no, that's all you need. How sad. Really really sad.

Cunical, you are a hoot.. I am laughing so hard...These people deserve to live among them...

Let um loose...But they have to stay with their loved ones..

NO MORE OF YOU IN IDAHO

Just keep all of them in CA when they are let lose.....

Don't drink the Kool-Aid. The 308 million dollars is the cost of the judicial system which needs to be streamlined. It also costs the taxpayer 50K a year to house an innmate.

You do the math. Its not that hard.

I think at least one poster has a loved one on death row.

Foot the bill? Absolutely. No problem. I would rather my tax money go to this than the other BS the state wants to do.

I'm not a Republican and think you are not a bleeding heart liberal. You have no heart and no matter what happened to a loved one you would forgive the perpetrator and take them into your home. Your thinking would be "My family is gone but I'm ok, so to heck with them".

your nuts. no more no less, your just plain nuts.

" But they clamor to send our soldiers to their deaths"

Someone has selective memory, let's take a look at the last century:

WWI= Woodrow Wilson(D)

WWII= Franklin Roosevelt(D)

Korean War= Harry Truman(D)

Vietnam War= Lyndon Johnson(D)

So instead, you think that sentencing people to life in prison is better? Muahahahaha!

Look, if you don't know, you let them go. Sentencing innocent people to life in prison may allow you to sleep at night but it is every bit a gross miscarriage of justice as executing them.

You have no heart and no matter what happened to a loved one you would forgive the perpetrator and take them into your home.

How would that mean the poster has no heart? It would seem to me to be the opposite. It's a lot harder to forgive someone than it is to exact vengeance. Try it sometime. I have seen people who have done just that (forgiven someone for murdering someone close to them) and, let me tell you, they are bigger people with bigger hearts than you or I could ever dream of being/having! Exacting revenge is the easy way out.

Shawn,

Operation Desert Storm - George H.W. Bush (R)

War in Iraq - George W. Bush (R)

War in Afghanistan - George W. Bush (R)

Funny how you left those out. Come back with we were attacked? We also were attacked at Pearl Harbor for WWII, right?

Let me guess Reba, NASA faked the moon landing too? WWI Wilson (D), WWII Roosevelt (D), Korea Truman (D), Vietnam Kennedy (D). Seems you don't study history very well. So again, are you going to hug Charles Manson for wiping out your family?

Blind. Whuck is blind to the ways of the world. So very sad.

Caught on tape or with lots of evidence whereby nothing was withheld... Red is positive, Black is ground, lights out.

I ask Nik. What if it were one of your family members that Charles Manson & is horde murdered? Do you and Reba still want hug them & watch them grow old in comfort? Cable TV, free medical, free food? While the worms are eating your sister/brother or whomever?

So if you aren't sure, you railroad them into serving life imprisonment? How is that not a miscarriage of justice? If you aren't sure of their guilt or innocence, you can't hedge your bets, you let them go.

Whuck,

What if a member of your family was murdered and someone was tried and executed for it. Being a victim, you rejoice for the revenge. Now, you learn the person executed was innocent. How does it feel now? The murderer walks free. Are you still happy for the payback? Are you? As long as a sacrifice is given, apparently it doesn't matter. Right? If so, you are a murderer as well.