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Subscribe to RSSAs demonstrators stood outside the Supreme Court protesting the 2010 Arizona law known as SB 1070, the justices at the high court appeared sympathetic to the provision that allows police in Arizona to check the immigration status of anyone suspected of being in the U.S. illegally. NBC's Pete Williams reports.
Editor's note: In an earlier version of this story, msnbc.com erroneously described a portion of the bill under review. The section in question requires that police try to determine the immigration status of people whom they arrest or stop if there's reasonable suspicion that person is in the country illegally.
Updated 1:35 p.m. ET: The U.S. Supreme Court indicated Wednesday it appears ready to uphold one of the most controversial parts of Arizona's immigration law: a requirement that police officers check the immigration status of people they think are in the country illegally.
Wading into a highly divisive issue in the middle of a presidential campaign year, conservative and liberal justices who heard oral arguments on Wednesday morning seemed to find no strong objection to that section of the law.
Justice Anthony Kennedy, who casts the deciding vote in many cases, referred to the "social and economic disruption'' that states endure as a result of a flood of illegal immigrants and suggested that states such as Arizona have authority to act.
"You can see it's not selling very well," Justice Sonia Sotomayor, one of the more liberal-leaning judges, told Obama administration Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, referring to his arguments that the law would lead to harassment of citizens.
Arizona appeared to have a tougher time defending two other provisions of the law that are now blocked: making it a state crime to have no federal immigration papers and making it a state crime for an illegal immigrant to look for work. Neither is currently a federal crime.
The court session ran 20 minutes beyond the scheduled hour, with Verrilli arguing the case for the Obama administration and Washington attorney Paul Clement, who served as President George W. Bush’s solicitor general from 2005 to 2008, representing Arizona and its Republican governor, Jan Brewer.
Chief Justice John Roberts dismissed the administration's arguments that the Arizona law conflicted with the federal system, saying Arizona’s measure is "an effort to help you enforce federal law.''
The four conservative justices, Roberts, Kennedy, Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alito, all asked tough questions of Verrilli. Fellow conservative Justice Clarence Thomas did not ask any questions, but based on past votes is expected to support the Arizona law.
Leonida Martinez, left, from Phoenix, Ariz., and others, take part in a demonstration in front of the Supreme Court in Washington, D.C., Wednesday, as the court weighs Arizona's immigration law.
Justice Elena Kagan recused herself from the case because she had previously worked on it while serving as the solicitor general for Obama.
Verrilli tried to persuade the justices that they should view the law in its entirety and said it was inconsistent with federal immigration policy. He said the records check would allow the state to "engage effectively in mass incarceration" of undocumented immigrants.
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But Roberts said the state merely wants to notify federal authorities it has someone in custody who may be in the U.S. illegally. "It seems to me that the federal government just doesn't want to know who's here illegally and who's not," Roberts said.
NBC's Steve Handelsman reports.
The Obama administration argues that only the federal government, not states, has the right to set immigration policy. It says Arizona cannot impose immigration laws that conflict with federal laws.
Arizona says it enacted SB 1070 because the federal government has failed to stop an influx of illegal immigrants from Mexico. It says its law doesn’t conflict with federal statute, and in fact does specifically what the federal law is supposed to do.
The legislation was signed into law by Brewer in April 2010 but key parts of the law were put on hold by lower courts pending action by the Supreme Court on the challenge from the Obama administration. Arizona’s law has inspired similar laws in other states.
Brewer was on hand for the final argument of the Supreme Court's term.
Can an illegal immigrant become a lawyer?
Outside the Supreme Court, supporters and opponents of the law held their own court, giving speeches, holding banners and singing songs. At one point, supporters of the law started singing, “The Star-Spangled Banner,” The Wall Street Journal reported. Opponents joined in, and both groups sang the end of the national anthem together, the Journal reported.
The Supreme Court is expected to render a decision before the end of June.
It’s the second high-profile case involving the Obama administration to be argued this year before the Supreme Court. Last month, the court heard oral arguments on a constitutional challenge to Obama’s sweeping health care law.
One of the main architects of the Arizona law, former Republican state Sen. Russell Pearce, has described the unabated flow of illegal aliens into the country as one of the “greatest threats to our nation.”
“We have a national crisis, and yet we continue to ignore it," Pearce, who was removed from office last year in a recall election, testified on Tuesday at a U.S. Senate hearing.
NBC's Pete Williams and The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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press 1 for English 2 for Spanish +your pin # Thank you Come Again.....Amigo....
Looks like it's going to ba a bad summer for Eric Holder and our "Constitutional Scholar". Watch how ugly the fight gets when they're cornored by the Supreme Court.
Most Mexicans are indigenous people of this continent that happen to speak Spanish, That's it. We should develop a plan to incorporate Mexico into the US. Just like the EU. Yes some states in this union will fail, but overall the long term goal is stability and economic security. These problems aren't so vicious when the economy is good and everyone is employed and kept happy. Civil unrest comes from ineffective Governments like seen in Mexico and now spreading to our own.
Rarely you say something intelligent. This was close.
They switched my meds
What a nut!
Mexico has incredible resources, a large population of hard working people, a crooked government, and little social 'safety net'. We would ban the use of the resources, teach the people to coast because of the newly installed 'safety net' and learn from the crooked politicans.
Mexico does just fine without us. Ask around. What is their debt? What do they hold in their treasury? What is their balance of payments?
Yes, states should be allowed to enact their own immigration laws. The Federal Government is not doing anything to enforce the law. We need new people in Washington who will uphold the law.
Of course police should be asking for ID's and immigration papers if they suspect someone they have stopped are illegal. It is ALREADY a federal law that aliens carry their immigration cards with them at all times. Saying the police shouldn't do so would be like telling the cops that they can't give someone a ticket for no insurance if they stopped them for speeding!
Score one for the good guys. Good over "Evil".
Beers on me.
I tip my hat to the good people of Arizna and Texas. I'll buy em a beer every time I meet one. PS, Sheriff Joe was right about the Birth Certificate.
Can you say " media tries reverse psychology " ??
Direct threats by the president did not stir up much.
Maybe the opposites game will do the trick i.e. tell the court what to do and not what not to do.
Ok, first of all, what ever happened to "reasonable suspicion"? Land of the Free? Which part of America would that be?
Now, here is the deal. I am an American citizen but am a permanent resident of Mexico. My home is about 2 blocks from the DIF, or State Welfare office. I have never asked for assistance but have friends here who do and you MUST have proof of citizenship to get ANY help. Same goes for schools. My kids go to private schools here because they are immeasurably better than the public schools. If you can prove citizenship however, public schools are free. For non-citizens it is tuition time. You can work without work papers but you will never get a job that pays more than $100 week. Good jobs, ALL of them, require either citizens ID or an FM3. Immigration checks all registered companies on a regular basis and hands them HUGE fines for violating the rules on hiring.
And Mexico has a MUCH larger immigration problem than the US. Immigrants from Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua flood across the southern borders daily and take Mexican jobs as they move north. Many of the current Cartel members are either from those countries or have family there.
So miss me with all the American victim stance. The United States is not the only country in world with problems and most of the problems the US does have are self created. Immigration in the US NEVER fines businesses at all for hiring illegals. The only thing they do is to arrest them and send them back, to get hired by the same company a few days later. Start putting business owners in jail, charged with felony obstruction of justice, and watch how quick people stop coming. My ID and drivers license is different than Mexican citizens but in the US all State ID is identical. How can agencies verify citizenship? Just like the American demand for drugs fuels the drug wars, Americans focus on punishing aliens for wanting to work while allowing business owners who hire them to walk away after committing numerous crimes is simply the stupidest way to solve the problem.
This is Nothing, Other Countries Demands to see your papers regardless of who you are!
So what the difference here?? we just let them roam free and takes JOBs that nobody else wants.
No, Mister Whoops, you dont just let them roam free. Did you read what I said about how Mexico handles it? All citizens have one ID and one type of drivers license. And if you drive you have to have both. The ID for Non-citizens, like me, is different. So if I try to use government benefits or enroll my kids in public schools, I cannot. Really freaking simple. And when Immigration finds someone working illegally, they send them back of course, but they levy HEAVY fines against the business hiring them. In the US non-citizens can freely walk into the local DMV and get a drivers license or ID and get the same kind as citizens do. Employers are able to hire illegals with no fear of consequences. Know how many times in the 8 years Ive lived here that I have spoken to a cop? NONE. But I am a self employed writer and need no government help.
Why is it the United States Goverment has no problems playing police to other countries problems while bein ignorant to their own?Its time states step up and police their own interest and quit waiting on politicians to pass laws that have no interest to them,After all when was the last time a illegal immigrant ran for a political office?
I have been a plumber in South Carolina for 25 years and currently working on a school bein built in Lexington SC .The ratio between legal Americans and Illegal immigrants is around 25%legal And 75%illegal.So in other words instead of my state building its economy by providing Jobs to its residents which would help our economy grow and lower our unemployement rate,Its allowing our economy to be robbed ,raped and abused only to build up other countries economies.Now the humananity side of the situation is their only doin what they have to do to survive.Yepp and when i get in a little more of a bind then i already am financaially then I can just go rob the nearest bank.so what if its illegal!!!!That should help our crime rate.
Not to mention that if there are 15.000.000 illegal immigrants working in the U.S. then 15.000,000 americans are out of work.And sure illegal immigrants will work cheap in the U.S. OHHHH and did i mention that in mexico that 1 U.S. dollar = 13.3090222 Mexican pesos. Alternatively, 1 Mexican Peso = 0.075137 U.S.dollars which means every 7 cents in the U.S. is worth a dollar in mexico.AND!!!! if each if these 15,000,000 illegal immigrants sent $200a week home there actually sending $2062 to there economy!!!!! WOW i wish i could afford that!! AND to make matters worse for an American our economy loses annually$156,000,000,000 if each of these immigrants sends only $200 a week home.Now im not goin to even attemt the equivalency to the mexican economy i dont think my calculater can count that high!!!SO to sum it all up can we afford not to step up?
Exactly how would you know what percentage of the students are citizens or not citizens. Do they all wear signs???
Peter, maybe we should all wear signs!
What would be news or amazing if the court did anything that defied the conservatives.
It appears from the story that some of the liberal Justices also seem to be OK with some of the provisions of the Arizona law.
The anti-American President will have nightmares the rest of his life, waking up screaming the numbers 5-4, 5-4, 5-4, AHHHHH!!!!
I think its time for Montana, Idaho, Utah, New mexico, Wyoming and Arizona to become it's own nation. I'm sure Texas and a few other states that get up in the morning and look or go to work would be all for it. With the population increase and a country divided in half it just makes a lot of sence.
Why Mountain states? PS......New Mexico is worse than Old Mexico, and the women in NM are mutants leftover from nuclear experiments.
Im currently in NY. Sounds like if that ever happens I would be headin west in a hurry! Sounds good to me!
I wonder if all of the supporting justices and congress members would be willng to take in and support a family who is here illegally completely without and assistance or tax breaks to do it? Let them live in their homes or erect a house on their property at the expense of the homeowner and then let as many of their family come live with them that wanted to and pay their way out of their pockets as well? That is basically what is happening here in america. Our taxes and our social security system are being stretched to the breaking point because of illegal aliens. Case in point, California. The Mexicans flee their country because of crappy living and working conditions, but when they get here they expect the state they live in to take care of them and lower the standard of living for everyone else to please those here illegally. The federal government needs to step up and send all of these people who are here illegally, not just the Mexicans who are over running Arizona, back where they came from.
As an independent, I cannot support illegal immgrants. My Italian Grandparents had to go thru Ellis Island and change their name to a "more" American version. And like wise, currently, I have some really great Phillopino friend that took litterally YEARS for the and thier wives to come to America Legally.....so if its good engouh for two generations ago and now for new immgrants then why not the flood from mexico?? Turn it off and force them to be legal immgrants!!
@ cb7910. You sir are an ignoramus. We would have the same problem with Philipino immigration if the Philimpines were a country bordering the United States. As for your grandparents, all they had to do was board a ship headed to Ellis Island. Once there, they were given an inpromtu medical exam and were given citizenship papers. Nothing like it is now that the immigrants are no longer white skinned.
@ stewgotts
News flash for you buddy, if I am walking down the street and a cop asks me for my ID for any reason and I fail to provide one he can take me to jail. Doesn't matter if I am white, black or brown. I have been threatened being taken to jail on more than one occasion for not having a valid photo id on my person. BTW, I am a white male.
In summary, anyone can be detained if they do not have proper id when asked by a law enforcement officer.
Not true, unless you are not a citizen. There is no federal requirement for U.S. Citizens to carry any form of identification.
This is only true for any Citizen who does not drive, have a bank account, library card, drinks alcohol, smokes or wants any services from any public institution. That covers those in nursing homes and the homeless ... and illegal aliens. Since the illegals we are trying to get rid of are not in nursing homes, I think it is reasonable to require everyone to present some kind of ID.
I lean toward being a Liberal, which is a good thing, but I agree with the Arizona law. I don't blame illegals for wanting to come to the USA, but they are here illegally, and should be deported. They use our resources, contribute to the low pay that some jobs have, and don't pay taxes. Seems like a no-brainer.
Those who work in this country pay taxes whatever their immigration status happens to be. The federal government will actually provide dummy SSNs so those here illegally can have payroll taxes and withholding taken out of their paychecks, and they can actually file federal tax returns. That information is kept confidential and not provided to the Immigration Department.
Peter, that would seem to fall under the aiding abetting a felon category. So you are telling me that the Feds who do this are felons? Besides all the taxes, Federal, State, local, FICA, etc. withheld does not come close to the tax dollars spent on Food Stamps, Welfare, uninsured access to the ERs, teaching their children in public schools, etc.
They are illegal and need to leave, please provide an acceptable method for doing this. Waiting ...
After reading through several postings, it is disgusting that so many people blame Obama for the state of the economy. Do you really think 3 years and NO cooperation from a republican house is going to change what that mass murderer George W Bush has done? How much money went to the war with Iraq? Yo, DUBYA, where are those WMDs? How was that support from the other allies for the war? How goes your friendship with your best buds on Wall Street?
Look at the alternative. Romney should check his head for a 666 on it. Loves to pink slip people and isn't worried about the poor. Of course not with that platinum spoon in his mouth. His father was poor? NOT. Look it up. How many other lies has he told? Also, the wife will be a nice first lady if you still believed in Leave it to Beaver or the Donna Reed show. Barefoot and pregnant was her life.
Bush - yeah that's the problem! Hitler did it. How many trillions pumped into this economy for nothing? Obama is greasing his buddies wallets at your expense moron.
Pelosi and the Dems had control of the House for two years. You might stop trying to rewrite history; your ignorance is showing.
When our economy collapses under their weight they will flee back South and we will rebuild and this time with something that makes the great wall of china look like a garden fence.
I suppose if the Supremes support the law Mr. Arrogant Obama will have to admonish them - perhaps suggest they don't have the power to rule against him.