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Gary W. Green / Pool / EPA
George Zimmerman, center, speaks with his attorney Mark O'Mara during an April 20 bond hearing at the Seminole County Courthouse in Sanford, Fla.
SANFORD, Fla. -- A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.
The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Fla., George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.
"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.
"Get a gun."
That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.
By June 2011, Zimmerman's attention had shifted from a loose pit bull to a wave of robberies that rattled the community, called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol -- a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.
Few of his closest neighbors knew he carried a gun -- until two months ago.
On February 26, George Zimmerman shot and killed unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in what Zimmerman says was self-defense. The furor that ensued has consumed the country and prompted a re-examination of guns, race and self-defense laws enacted in nearly half the United States.
During the time Zimmerman was in hiding, his detractors defined him as a vigilante who had decided Martin was suspicious merely because he was black. After Zimmerman was finally arrested on a charge of second-degree murder more than six weeks after the shooting, prosecutors portrayed him as a violent and angry man who disregarded authority by pursuing the 17-year-old.
But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investigation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the months preceding the Martin shooting.
Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.
The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.
Handout / Reuters
George Zimmerman is pictured in a school photo from 1998 in this handout photo obtained by Reuters.
A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.
Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
Mixed household
George Michael Zimmerman was born in 1983 to Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, the third of four children. Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Va., in 1975 with Gladys Mesa's brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.
In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District.
Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister's birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas.
Gladys came to lead a small but growing Catholic Hispanic enclave within the All Saints Catholic Church parish in the late 1970s, where she was involved in the church's outreach programs. Gladys would bring young George along with her on "home visits" to poor families, said a family friend, Teresa Post.
"It was part of their upbringing to know that there are people in need, people more in need than themselves," said Post, a Peruvian immigrant who lived with the Zimmermans for a time.
Post recalls evening prayers before dinner in the ethnically diverse Zimmerman household, which included siblings Robert Jr., Grace, and Dawn. "It wasn't only white or only Hispanic or only black -- it was mixed," she said.
Zimmerman's maternal grandmother, Cristina, who had lived with the Zimmermans since 1978, worked as a babysitter for years during Zimmerman's childhood. For several years she cared for two African-American girls who ate their meals at the Zimmerman house and went back and forth to school each day with the Zimmerman children.
Trayvon Martin's parents saw their son's killer face-to-face for the first time in court on Friday, where George Zimmerman took the stand to say he was "sorry for the loss of your son." A judge set bail at $150,000. NBC's Kerry Sanders reports.
"They were part of the household for years, until they were old enough to be on their own," Post said.
Zimmerman served as an altar boy at All Saints from age 7 to 17, church members said.
"He wasn't the type where, you know, 'I'm being forced to do this,' and a dragging-his-feet Catholic," said Sandra Vega, who went to high school with George and his siblings. "He was an altar boy for years, and then worked in the rectory too. He has a really good heart."
George grew up bilingual, and by age 10 he was often called to the Haydon Elementary School principal's office to act as a translator between administrators and immigrant parents. At 14 he became obsessed with becoming a Marine, a relative said, joining the after-school ROTC program at Grace E. Metz Middle School and polishing his boots by night. At 15, he worked three part-time jobs -- in a Mexican restaurant, for the rectory, and washing cars -- on nights and weekends, to save up for a car.
After graduating from Osbourn High School in 2001, Zimmerman moved to Lake Mary, Florida, a town neighboring Sanford. His parents purchased a retirement home there in 2002, in part to bring Cristina, who suffers from arthritis, to a warmer climate.
Young insurance agent
On his own at 18, George got a job at an insurance agency and began to take classes at night to earn a license to sell insurance. He grew friendly with a real estate agent named Lee Ann Benjamin, who shared office space in the building, and later her husband, John Donnelly, a Sanford attorney.
"George impressed me right off the bat as just a real go-getter," Donnelly said. "He was working days and taking all these classes at night, passing all the insurance classes, not just for home insurance, but auto insurance and everything. He wanted to open his own office -- and he did."
In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.
Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman's business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.
That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman's at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.
In August, Zimmerman's fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.
Speaking publicly for the first time since her husband fatally shot unarmed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, Shellie Nicole Zimmerman said her husband, George Zimmerman, is "not a violent person" and poses no danger to the community.
In 2007 he married Shellie Dean, a licensed cosmetologist, and in 2009 the couple rented a townhouse in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman had bounced from job to job for a couple of years, working at a car dealership and a mortgage company. At times, according to testimony from Shellie at a bond hearing for Zimmerman last week, the couple filed for unemployment benefits.
Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College in 2009, and in December 2011 he was permitted to participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate's degree in criminal justice. Zimmerman was completing that course credit when the shooting occurred.
On March 22, nearly a month after the shooting and with the controversy by then swirling nationwide, the school issued a press release saying it was taking the "unusual, but necessary" step of withdrawing Zimmerman's enrollment, citing "the safety of our students on campus as well as for Mr. Zimmerman."
Neighborhood in fear
By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins. Previously a family-friendly, first-time homeowner community, it was devastated by the recession that hit the Florida housing market, and transient renters began to occupy some of the 263 town houses in the complex. Vandalism and occasional drug activity were reported, and home values plunged. One resident who bought his home in 2006 for $250,000 said it was worth $80,000 today.
At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.
In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.
One morning in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman's front porch and stole a bicycle, neighbors told Reuters. A police report was taken, though the bicycle was not recovered.
But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses toward certification as a registered nurse.
On Aug. 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.
"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.
Police arrived just as the burglars -- who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television -- fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.
After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.
"He was so mellow and calm, very helpful and very, very sweet," she said last week. "We didn't really know George at first, but after the break-in we talked to him on a daily basis. People were freaked out. It wasn't just George calling police ... we were calling police at least once a week."
In September, a group of neighbors including Zimmerman approached the homeowners association with their concerns, she said. Zimmerman was asked to head up a new neighborhood watch. He agreed.
'Please contact our captain
Police had advised Bertalan to get a dog. She and her husband decided to move out instead, and left two days before the shooting. Zimmerman took the advice.
"He'd already had a mutt that he walked around the neighborhood every night -- man, he loved that dog -- but after that home invasion he also got a Rottweiler," said Jorge Rodriguez, a friend and neighbor of the Zimmermans.
Around the same time, Zimmerman also gave Rodriguez and his wife, Audria, his contact information, so they could reach him day or night. Rodriguez showed the index card to Reuters. In neat cursive was a list of George and Shellie's home number and cell phones, as well as their emails.
George Zimmerman was released on bail ahead of his trial for second degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin. Rev. Al Sharpton has the latest developments in the case.
Less than two weeks later, another Twin Lakes home was burglarized, police reports show. Two weeks after that, a home under construction was vandalized.
The Retreat at Twin Lakes e-newsletter for February 2012 noted: "The Sanford PD has announced an increased patrol within our neighborhood ... during peak crime hours.
"If you've been a victim of a crime in the community, after calling police, please contact our captain, George Zimmerman."
Setting the stage
On Feb. 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.
"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.
On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.
Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on Feb. 2.
Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.
Three days after Burgess was arrested, Zimmerman's grandmother was hospitalized for an infection, and the following week his father was also admitted for a heart condition. Zimmerman spent a number of those nights on a hospital room couch.
Ten days after his father was hospitalized, Zimmerman noticed another young man in the neighborhood, acting in a way he found familiar, so he made another call to police.
"We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," Zimmerman said, as Trayvon Martin returned home from the store.
The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.
This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.
Michael Mcparlane / Politicalcartoons.com
Click here to view this cartoon slideshow.
"These @!$%#s," he muttered in an aside, "they always get away."
After the phone call ended, several minutes passed when the movements of Zimmerman and Martin remain a mystery.
Moments later, Martin lay dead with a bullet in his chest.
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Leave a Comment:
what do all racist panthers and reverans have to say about that
We all know that the RACIST Black Panthers, Jesse, Al and the rest will discount this story.
of course they will it doesnt there needs whether true or not all they are wining racists just like the pink panthers oops sorry i meant the black panthers
OOPS- Al and Jess have some explaining to do, looks like Zimmerman is part black as well.
Al and Jess, "nothing to see here, move along, we got nothing to say now"
It's funny as more and more of the TRUTH comes out it looks less and less like the story put out by Martin's family, their lawyers, civil rights instigators and all the politicians who are trying to use this young man's death for their own financial and political gains. SAD SAD SAD and SHAME SHAME SHAME ON ALL OF THEM.
So much for all of the he wasn't attacked, look no blood, he is lying about being attack, it was a young child calling for help BS crowd who now have to eat serious crow, hope Zimmerman sues the lot of them as well as all the "news" agencies who knowingly put out false information against Zimmerman while covering up the truth about Trayvon Martin.
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/videos/full/2012/04/20/5108-image-george-zimmerman-s-bloodied-head-new.jpg
Ah, at last perhaps a breath of fresh air? Or maybe a bit of truth? Funny that Al and Jesse and the rest of the lynch mob didn't do a little background, and of course it will be interesting to see thier reaction to the remarks of the black lady neighbor who stated that "black boys" have been breaking into houses here. As most logical thinkers have known, lots,lots more to this story than the lynch mob either knew or reported. Maybe the confrontation ( what ever it was ) between Martin and Zimmerman was stoked by the black violence and stealing that occured before this? Maybe Jesse and Al and company might comment on why a young black might be regarded with suspicion after all those incidents? Hmmmmm?
According to COGIC and the nation of islam that if any man or woman has even one drop of black blood in their family history they are black, but that isn't even the best part of the story, the fact is, he was a good guy doing the best that he could, for himself, his family and his neighborhood, he made a mistake, he jumped to a conclusion, the wrong one and sadly it cost a young man his life, but this wasn't murder. its a tragic story and no one wins. Come on folks, this isn't a hate crime, he isn't a cold blooded killer. The question is, will anyone really care?
Finally, we are getting to some real stories about the community and the problems they have.
We have gotten to the point that honest hard working people live locked up like prisoners afraid to open windows, go for a walk or even to work because the bad guys take everything they have worked for.The criminals are winning. Consider that a criminal will get free food, free health care, free cable TV, free gym, free heat and air conditioning, free dental and free clothing. So they cannot walk down the street anytime they want, you can't either without taking a chance on getting mugged or killed.
Guess the hope that retaliation hate crimes could be avoided is gone, sad sad sad, this should have never happened.
Sister of beaten Alabama man claims group says it was justice for Trayvon
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/17677795/sister-of-mobile-ala-man-beaten-claims-group-says-it-was-justice-for-trayvon
Bet his mom is so glad she copyrighted those sayings, now she can get paid, also very sad statement of how to use your dead son to make money, just sick.
So because crime was getting bad and it was being done by young black males, its ok that GZ killed an unarmed TM???????????????????????
Who said that??? (Just borrowed a couple of your question marks....)
Racial profiling that resulted in the death of an innocent, unarmed man will not go unpunished. This is the very reason that vigilantism is not tolerated here. It's as bad as KKK killings. Trayvon did NOTHING but look like a black kid. "Shooterman" fantasized and instigated the whole confrontation.
...and the horse you rode in on.
You left out the part where TM bashed his head into the concrete repeatedly prior to being shot. Of course, we shouldn't let reality get in the way of your witch hunt.
love this story- hard to believe msnbc actually ran it as far left as they lean but i guess the pressure is getting to them so they have decided to represent the other side (the real side) a little bit. so msnbc, how do you feel now?...you know, now that you pressed so hard in the beginning by calling zimmerman "white"? and it took quite a while before you got around to calling him WHITE/hispanic....why was there such an emphasis on white? oh, you needed it for your left lean. so, really how do you feel now?
obummer? spike? jesse? al? nbp? how ya'll doin'? starting to feel a little foolish...AGAIN? you've all had so many chances yet keep opening mouth and inserting foot. hilarious!
zimmerman is a hero-looking out for the neighborhood...i'm quite sure as this story develops and more truth comes out, we will learn the justified reason for the shooting.
So where are all the people now that were crying it was against law for him to be armed as a community watch member?
I guess you didn't notice that he wasn't sure of Martin's race until halfway through the 911 transcript, after he was already following him for some time.
Robbob, I just heard about that Mobile, AL gang-beating of the white guy (local TV news here in the Charlotte, NC area).
They reported that the Mobile mayor is stating "it can't be a hate crime since the lone white guy was making some racial insults before the 20-or so black men beat the sh*t outta him."
Really? That's vigilante, thug-mindedness.
If 20 white, Hispanic or Asian men even touched a lone black man who was saying racial things on the basketball court, it would be considered a "racial incident" and the non-black thugs would quickly be labeled racists.
@derek.LYNCH, any reasonable person would defend themselves when being attacked. Speaking of reality, we do know that "Shooterman" was in pursuit of Trayvon not the other way around. Come attack me in my neighborhood, or your neighborhood for that matter, and see if I don't defend myself in any way I can... including smashing your head on the concrete. You guys are so scared of black people that your reality is skewed and like "shooterman" you are losing comprehension of right and wrong.
@olga, another omnipotent proclaimer asking rhetorical questions that cannot be answered by anything other that racially biased conjecture. Think of something else olga?
He saw a black kid and assumed too much. Yes, there were a recent rash of break-ins by black teens; however, look at the logic. If there were a recent rash of break-ins by big-breasted blonds, would it be justified if he followed any big-breasted blond slowly by car, get out, provoked a self-defense response from her, then shot her? No, it would not. This is what happened here: He followed this kid, in a slow-moving car, got out, provoked a self-defense response from Martin, then used that response to kill him. The Florida law is barbaric and a perversion of American freedom and justice. (PS, last time I checked, our parents warned us from an early age about people in slow-moving cars -- especially those who then get out of those cars and confront us)
@argue, you mean when he answered the second question from the dispatcher less than 30 seconds into the call?
Sounds like you too are so scared of black people that you have lost touch with right and wrong.
Hey argue, why don't you argue with this:
The screaming goes on almost the entire call until the gunshots. This makes me sick.
I mean the second time, after he says he looks black, when Martin was walking towards him and he was able to confirm he was black. Up to that point, he thought he was black, he wasn't sure until Martin was coming towards him. The dispatcher asked him for a race, and he gave a guess, and guess what, he was right. Where, anywhere, are you given the notion that Zimmerman wouldn't have been following Martin if he was green, purple or pink? Because Al and Jesse said so?
Sorry. I fear no person based on the color of their skin. I've worked in Harlem, Spanish Harlem, the South Bronx and all the worst neighborhoods in the 5 boroughs of New York, white, black, Hispanic, the full gambit, taking the subways and walking through them all. Nor do I presume guilt based solely on skin color. That's for the likes of you.
How do manage to get through the day with that huge chip on your shoulder?
Argue what? Nowhere does it say who was screaming. In fact, at one point, she say "I think they're yelling help". "They're", as in "They", plural, meaning both. So what's your point?
Another point. How do you know I'm not black?
Nicely done ...and the horse you rode in on. You know how to take what was deductive reasoning and turn it into inductive to make it appear within your own mind to be logical....now take everything you have wrote down, turn it into a mathmatical format, hey you can even use a truth table if you need too and now work out the problem...i'll give you a minute......
done yet?...no?..ok..one more minute.
(reads "War and Peace" as he waits)
ok, done?...no?..why not?..OH YEAH, BECAUSE IT DON'T ADD UP!!!!!..ugh...look up the damn meaning of bigot and realize you are just one of the lame duck followers who cannot think for yourself, cannot see the truth no matter how much proof is thrown in your face...this was a tragic accident based on two people making the wrong choices. No, Zimmerman shouldn't just be let off, he should be found guilty of manslaughter and lets move on. And how is this even remotely like the KKK? Good lord, i have heard of grasping at straws but that is just stupid.
Uh oh... so who was the second gunman? Because according to police only ONE shot was fired.
Must have been the guy on the grassy knoll!
While George Zimmerman certainly has been the subject or ire, The real angst in the black community is the appearance of the failure by the Sanford Police to treat Trayvon Martin death not as the Homicide that it was but as road kill. In a world still shadowed by Jim Crowe the Black community does not trust that the actions of the Sanford Police were just negligent. Believe me if that "Mexican" (though he really isn't) was standing over a white kid what would have happened in the name of Justice.
I don't think Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder, rather negligent homicide or manslaughter. If they also add those charges to the primary charge I think that's what he'll end up with getting convicted of. That and simply being stupid.
Every Guy Who Kills a Kid in Self-Defense Has a Right to Make Money Off It! Don't hesitate - read this story now!
All,
Fact: No evidence that GZ did not stop following TM as wrongly suggested by the media and others!
Fact: GZ stated during the 911 call that he lost sight of TM! And GZ stayed on the line for almost 2 minutes after that!
Fact: TM was shot less than 100 yrds of his home.
Fact: TM, according to his football team info, can run 100 yrds in under ten seconds!
Fact: Once out of sight, TM could have been home in less than ten seconds! And he had almost 2 minutes to do it!
Fact: GZ has a broken nose and head gashes from TM!
Fact: A witness stated to police that night that he saw TM on top of GZ hitting him!
Fact: Same witness told police that night that he saw and heard GZ screaming for help!
Fact: Same witness stated to police he was to scared to intervene, but went in to call 911!
Fact: GZ had an absolute right to monitor someone in the neighborhood he did not recognize!
Fact: GZ called the police regarding seeing someone in the neighborhood he did not recognize!
If my son was on his back being severly beat up, I would thank God he had a choice to stop it! If he hadn't, who knows what would have happened to him!
If the Dodger fan that was severly beaten at a game last year had had a gun, he wouldn't be brain damaged today trying to raise 2 kids....And he certainly would not be on trial for murder!
TM's mom could not handle him so she sent him to dad who ignored him...He did not report him missing until the next day...If you can go to bed not knowing where your son is, that is pretty bad and says everything! Give me a break! Both parents are to blame and they want to put the blame on GZ for defending his life against a kid that was out of control and parents that were too busy to discipline him...A shame...a real shame and TM had to pay the price for it!
3rd suspension in this school year!
The parents did contact the police. The police felt that Trayvon was probably a runaway and did not think that this victim was important enough to make a big search. This is common was Black teens are missing. Yet if the person was White there would be a big Amber alert. Trayvon laid in the morgue for a few days before his parents were notified. The parents did what they could at the time.
Nikki, he was 17 and over 6 feet tall, amber alerts are designed for younger people that are more than likely abducted, not people that are old enough to join the army.
Now as for the comment made that if this had been a non-white standing over the body of a white kid they had just shot and the reaction....really? people have posted storied on here over the months of young white people that have been, beaten, raped, killed, robbed, assualted, set on fire, etc...and no one cares, why? i wish i knew, but nothing comes close to the number of young black men who are murdering other young black men and apparently not even the current black leaders screaming about Zimmerman cares about any of it, except the events that will get them the most attention.
Nikki, in 2010 30% of all Amber Alerts involved black children, compared to 50% white.
@argue and rwevans, just name one thing that Trayvon did to necessitate "shooterman" track him, call 911, confront him and ultimately shoot him. Did "shooterman" tell the 911 dispatcher that TM was looking in windows or cars? No. Was he trying door knobs? No. We understand that "shooterman" was operating as a neighborhood watchman and was watching, but what did he see? What was it that TM was doing that "shooterman" was so interested in? That's what is missing from your arguments... no supporting data. You can claim all day and night that no one here is racist, and that's fine. But how do you defend this attack on an innocent, unarmed teenager(his words, as he so clearly stated in the call). No, when "shooterman" confirmed that he was a black teenager, then running away, "shooterman" violated his civil rights by assuming that he was a criminal even against the 911 dispatcher's request.
What is the mother and child supposed to do?
They found the concrete that Zimmerman's head was slammed into. It was a stair nearby. I.E. Zimmerman was trying unsuccessfully to get away. I notice on the 911 tape there were actually 2 shots fired. Zimmerman said something about Trayvon going for his gun. Two shots would be about right during a struggle for the gun, especially when there was only one stated gun wound to Trayvon.
One of the popular versions is that Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Martin after being told not to. That would be incorrect. Zimmerman was clearly already on foot while following Martin. Zimmerman's breathing pattern while speaking indicates he was out of shape and walking while talking to 911.
There are many, and you know it, you'll never admit it, but you know it. I'm not going to go through the list as you have undoubtedly already read the transcripts and all verified information. But none of the known facts at this time will ever change your mind so I'm not going to waste my time repeating what you already know. The only answer that will ever satisfy you is the only reason that cannot be proven.
All your arguments have been shot down, so instead of admit defeat, you move on to the next. Now you're at the end of your hand and you're looking for that race card. Sorry. It's already been discarded and there are no more in the deck.
Yes, I guess if you were an alter boy for a few years, you get a pass if you kill some kid for walking around while black!!
Did you read the article? Zimmerman is black (that is you accept the few that someone with black ancestry is black), like our current president.
He saw a stranger walking through his gated community at night, which had been recently plagued by break-ins. or did you not evenb read the article?
Actually, Treyvon Martin confronted him when he snuck up behind Zimmerman and broke his nose, and the shooting was necessitated when Treyvon was bashing Zimmermans head on the ground. It's very cut and dry, the shooting was justified.
The moment you lay your hands on anyone, you aren't innocent. If you are less than 70 yards from your own home and can make a short jog, taking less than a minute to be out of harms way, yet decide to confront the person whom you do not know, that is following you, you reap from the choice of your actions.
If Martin knew that night Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch person for the complex Zimmerman lived, where he was visiting, martin would never have died, because he certainly wouldn't have confronted Zimmerman.
If Zimmerman knew that his actions would have cost the life of young man like it did, he wouldn't have gotten out of his car.
Two people made wrong choices, the random diatribes are getting old about this.
Sounds as though Z was becoming increasingly paranoid as time went by. Paranoia is more dangerous than anger (much has expressed by many unfortunately). This is why we have laws (flawed as they may be) and should follow procedures so "accidents" (if indeed it was--we don't KNOW) won't be as likely to occur. All the background info in article doesn't change the fact that he killed someone. Even if Trayvon attacked first because he thought he was being stalked, it may be argued he was "standing HIS ground" (ludicrous law anyway you take it isn't it?). By the way, factfinders: Z was told NOT to follow anymore. Means he was following to begin with. If someone had been following Z to begin with, can we guess what he would do in his state of paranoia? I prefer to give Z benefit of the doubt, even though I may slant the other way in my mind. Assume all he says is true--at least to his perception (everyone's is different)--he still killed a 17 year old man who was not doing what Z thought he was. Z was wrong. He assumed the worse (don't we all?). There should be SOME consequence. Sorry for all the parentheses.
There is no evidence that Trayvon attacked first.
Nickie,
No...TM's dad did not report him missing until the next day! You like making this sh*t up? When TM's dad called in and described Trayvon, they said they would be right over and they brought a minister with them! A father should not go to sleep until he knows where his son is...never! Unless he is not involved! Sorry, but his dad should have grounded him for being suspended for the 3rd time this school year...TM was on the wrong path and his mom couldn't control him and his father wouldn't control him...Sad but true!
So what you are saying Alex. CA is that Zimmerman shot trayvon and then trayvon then started beating the snot out of Zimmerman, kinda like which came first, the chicken or the egg, and which was armed and wasn't armed and the shooter on the grassy nole...ugh...nevermind.
The 16 year old girl says that she thinks that zimmerman pushed Trayvon first. zimmerman could have started the fight but later Trayvon got the upper hand. Trayvon was screaming for help. They want to know who STARTED the fight.
Factman2012.....You post as if you know everthing, but you don't!
Very informative article. Could the authors please explain this part: "This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin."
What is the source for that information? Listening to the 911 you can hear the sounds of Zimmerman moving stop several seconds after the dispatcher said he didn't need Zimmerman to follow. He continued talking to the dispatcher for a couple of minutes after that. We would have heard if he had continued.
Also, from the bail hearing:
O'MARA: That he turned back to his car. We'll start with that one.
GILBREATH: I have nothing to indicate he did not or did not to that.
O'MARA: My question was do you have any evidence to contradict or that conflicts with his contention given before he knew any of the evidence that would conflict with the fact that he stated I walked back to my car?
GILBREATH: No.
So since you say that there were no sounds of him moving that he was standing there during the time that they were discussing him going back to meet the police at the mailboxes. People seem to forget that if he was on his way back to his vehicle to meet the police why did he need to give the dispatcher his cell number so that they could call him when they arrived? Just because someone claims that they did something does not make it true and his words to the dispatcher just before he hung up can be used by the jury to decide whether or not they believe his testimony. Is it evidence that he didn't? Not really but by his own words he indicated that there was a distinct possibility that he was going to continue to search for Martin. He had already decided that Martin was one of "them" even though there was no indication that any crime had been committed. You can sugarcoat it all you want but a young man is dead because of Zimmerman's actions. It doesn't matter whether or not he was "officially" on Neighborhood watch duty at the time. He claimed to be their captain and when he decided that he was going to "watch" Martin, he should have gone into Watch mode and done nothing but observe and report. He wanted the title he should have shown that he was capable of dispatching his duties as stated. He overstepped his boundaries and pursued someone without identifying who he was. Martin took off and Zimmerman wasn't planning on letting that happen. Zimmerman was the aggressor and he can claim anything that he wants, Martin can't say anything. For all anyone knows Martin feared for his life and decided to stand his ground and what the witness actually saw was him defending himself. You want to be the bigshot on the Neighborhood Watch, you should be leading by example and following the rules set forth for Neighborhood watches.
I agree, Donna---- You presented your points very logically.
Double post.
how many break ins should wait through and when are the parents of these children going to be held accountable iam not saying that martin was doing anything wrong before the confrontation i wasnt there but he certainly should not have jumped on zimmerman and start pounding his head on the cement
Amen...when will America and those two gross and disgusting racists, Al and Jesse demand that parents and the entire black community stop the violence they have perpetrated! Of course in this community and most others an inordinate amount of crime and violence is done by young black males...but where is the black community? What do they do to stop this? Then why do they wonder why young black males are profiled? Al and Jesse are two of the worst racists in America, they only rant and rave, but do nothing productive to stop the black violence. Wake up black parents and communities! Listen to the words of Bill Cosby....
You seem to forget, Olga, that Trayvon was walking to a house in the neighborhood he was staying at, when some dude started chasing him. Why doesn't Trayvon get to "stand his ground" and defend himself from some adult male chasing him?
SO all juvenile delinquents should be shot to death, even if they are unarmed????????
Jack.....
They will never listen to Bill Cosby......Called him an "Uncle Tom" for speaking about their race like that.
@Bashful -- Assumption much that Trayvon was being chased by Zimmerman. All accounts so far are that he was only being followed -- there allegedly was no interaction between them up until the time of the fight. Until there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt of who touched the other one first, there is no answer to the question of stand your ground. Following a person does not mean the person is being chased, stalked or assaulted. If following is all it takes, the people of big city USA would be shooting each other (for example: homeless solicitors) after walking only a couple of blocks with someone following behind them. The courts will have to determine if Zimmerman is guilty or not on the stand your ground law.
Trayvon was wrong to try and stand his ground. Trayvon "took a fist to a gun fight". In other words, one must know their enemy and their capabilities before facing off. Trayvon didn't and that is what cost Trayvon his life. Right or wrong it is fact that Zimmerman was armed, Trayvon wasn't and neither knew the others status. One doesn't know who is carrying and if one doesn't know, then one shouldn't engage. He should have called 911 instead.
The first rule of self protection and self preservation: GET AWAY (even with a gun it is harder to hit a moving target) -- RIGHT AWAY (run immediately and keep running) -- STAY AWAY (don't go back and when safe call 911).
Actually the Cos has used this opportunity to position his anti gun and NRA stance. Id think twice about wrapping myself in the security of the Cos for right wing racist positions.
Okay Whatever -
You are clearly an idiot. Took a fist to a gun fight? Really.... Assumption much that Trayvon was being chased? When Zimmerman says "He's running.." and you hear he car door open and he starts breathing heavily... what do you think he was doing? Hyperventilating? Some of these comments really show how distorted people really are. It would be different maybe if Trayvon actually did just committe a crime, but still wouldn't be right because he was unarmed. HOWEVER, he did not committe a crime and was profiled and followed by an unknown man. You don't think he has the right to stand his ground after trying to run?? get a grip on reality! I'm not saying Zimmerman is the worst person on earth, but he made a series of bad decisions that night that led to the death of a young man walking home. That is a crime he must pay for.
Aml1313, no, not all of them. Just the ones that are trying to bash your skull in on a concrete sidewalk. What justification has been made for TM to turn back and assault GZ? Didn't GZ have as much right to be on that sidewalk as TM? The confrontation took place 70' from TM's doorway, a distance, with his greater height and stride length he could have covered in 8-12 seconds, yet he made the decision to turn and confront someone that for all he knew, was simply walking in the same direction at the same time. Then for reasons unknown, turned and walked back and took it to the physical. I've got news for you. If someone is bashing my head onto concrete, I'll do whatever is necessary to stop it before unconsciousness, brain damage, or death made it impossible, and so would you. The idea that you would "just roll over and die because I don't want to shoot this SOB" would never enter your mind. As to GZ carrying a legally permitted firearm, with the value of hindsight, it probably made the difference in who made the trip to the morgue. The firearm wasn't used or even produced on a man walking home with Skittles, It was produced and used on a totally unknown stranger trying, with or without the intent to do so, to kill someone.
@Sdot204 -- Proceed directly to name calling. How mature of you. Please refrain from insulting intelligence when it clearly isn't your strong suit. I will say this -- Emotion much and the law is emotionless. For the purposes of posting, you may continue to name call me if you like. HOWEVER, this is my only and last response to you. I refuse to try and have a mature debate with overly emotional posters.
Using the example of having specific rights that you so vividly pronounced in your reply, a person has the right to get falling down drunk and die of alcohol poisoning, that does not make drinking oneself to death a smart thing to do. Trayvon tried to stand his ground with a man that clearly was armed with a gun. Trayvon made a bad choice in doing so.
I never stated that the decisions Zimmerman made were appropriate that night either. Zimmerman is alive and Trayvon is not. Trayvon's ultimate decision to stand his ground against an armed man is what got him killed. I stand by my statement that he should have run and kept running and running and running until he was safe and then call 911 instead.
It is up to the prosecutor to now present evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense.
Trayvon was screaming for help.
People forget that the dispatcher asked Zimmerman to watch what Trayvon was doing:
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Positioning yourself to see what someone is doing and where they are going is not following or pursuing.
Mr. Zimmerman has provided a service like no other, free of charge. Thank You Mr. Zimmerman. WE THE PEOPLE SUPPORT YOU.................................
I support you freedom-supporter!
His attorney is setting up a donation site. I plan on making a small donation each month to help him stay safe.
LOL - You individuals have some serious issues. "Provided a service free charge..." Is that by killing an unarmed African-American? You can make all the donations you want. Zimmerman will be in jail when this is over. People like you are what put gun laws in jeopardy and you call youself freedom supporter. Where was Trayvon's basic right of freedom to walk home from the store?
Jeannette - Your just a loser. Donate your whole salary. Maybe you will save Zimmerman from getting destroyed in prison.
Zimmerman made a mistake. The story describes the mitigating circumstances which lead him to think T. Martin was one of the burglars. He compounded his mistake when he decided to take matters in his own hands instead of just waiting for the cops to show up and risk letting another possible burglar get away.
But you people in this thread know the truth. You know that Martin was innocent. That he was unarmed. Why are you still supporting Zimmerman ? It seems that you think that killing an unarmed innocent black is no problem at all since other blacks were robbing this community.
Zimmerman made a mistake. What is your excuse ?
All,
Fact: No evidence that GZ did not stop following TM as wrongly suggested by the media and others!
Fact: GZ stated during the 911 call that he lost sight of TM! And GZ stayed on the line for almost 2 minutes after that!
Fact: TM was shot less than 100 yrds of his home.
Fact: TM, according to his football team info, can run 100 yrds in under ten seconds!
Fact: Once out of sight, TM could have been home in less than ten seconds! And he had almost 2 minutes to do it!
Fact: GZ has a broken nose and head gashes from TM!
Fact: A witness stated to police that night that he saw TM on top of GZ hitting him!
Fact: Same witness told police that night that he saw and heard GZ screaming for help!
Fact: Same witness stated to police he was to scared to intervene, but went in to call 911!
Fact: GZ had an absolute right to monitor someone in the neighborhood he did not recognize!
Fact: GZ called the police regarding seeing someone in the neighborhood he did not recognize!
If my son was on his back being severly beat up, I would thank God he had a choice to stop it! If he hadn't, who knows what would have happened to him!
If the Dodger fan that was severly beaten at a game last year had had a gun, he wouldn't be brain damaged today trying to raise 2 kids....And he certainly would not be on trial for murder!
TM's mom could not handle him so she sent him to dad who ignored him...He did not report him missing until the next day...If you can go to bed not knowing where your son is, that is pretty bad and says everything! Give me a break! Both parents are to blame and they want to put the blame on GZ for defending his life against a kid that was out of control and parents that were too busy to discipline him...A shame...a real shame and TM had to pay the price for it!
3rd suspension in this school year!
So, you guys don't even know that Trayvon was a thug in training at the time who went by the handle "NO_LIMIT_NIGGA" on twitter? You don't know he was involved with the South Florida anti-Whitey Black Foot Soldiers. You don't seem to know that he'd been suspended from school particularly because they found stolen jewelry in his locker and a big screwdriver commonly used by thug burglars to jimmy doors and windows open. That an an empty bag of pot with measurable residue in it.
RoyceL Please provide proof for the statements in your post.
RoyceL, I didn't realize you corresponded with Trayvon, and knew him so well. Maybe you are his voice.
Assumptionman2012, Assumption: all
Freedomsupporter, WE THE PEOPLE OF AL QAEDA? They provide services like that to disgruntled Middle Easterners who are in the minority of their countries.
canemah & olga-5704164, join Assumptionman2012
Regardless of all actual facts, which none of us know, theft is not punishable by death. Assault is not punishable by death. Self-defense should be reasonable.
You crack me up with your "facts," Factman. You should probably be more selective in what you repeat as "fact;" sooner or later, you're going to be asked to produce the evidence to back it up.
Some of the comments I've seen on these sites since Zimmerman's arrest would be laughable, if the people making them weren't so frighteningly vicious in their absolute convictions, despite their obvious serious deficiencies in the critical thinking department. I'd say 10 out of 10 of them wouldn't last two seconds on an average high school level debate team; yet here, they seem to believe themselves to be omnipotent ethics and legal experts.
although you are very correct from down below there is a certain segment of our society that just does not want to hear the truth.......they say they are tired of white people getting treated differently when commit a crime without getting into statistics i believe the last time i heard the minority is commiting the majority of the crimes in this country
So that must mean that every single balck person in the country is committing crimes. here is your hood and cross racist.
Funnystuff888,
The statistics show that blacks commit more crimes than whites do. If you see a person of one race every day walk into your yard and steal something for 100 days and on the 101 day you see a person walk into your yard are you that naive to think, "Oh he's just coming over to say hey!"
zimmerman calls from his SUV. At the beginning of zimmerman's 911 call, Trayvon was near the clubhouse, farther away from his townhome. zimmerman was near the mailboxes near his truck but he was found later closer to Trayvon's townhome. zimmernan was walking towards Trayvon's townhome.
zimmerman was going back to his truck but he was walking towards Trayvon's townhome which was in the opposite direction. His truck was located near the mailboxes near the clubhouse. .
.Did the person that was yelling for help sound like he was being punched??
***********
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then? Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine. Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay? Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at? Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no
problem. Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it? Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted by Mother Jones] Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
***********
http://www.miamiherald.com/graphics/
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
Trayvon was asking for help.
boy you have more facts than i have ever heard....you know i consider myself a liberal.....but i dont read liberal rags..iam pro obama...but i also believe in owning a handgun and being able to defend myself with it....stand your ground is what we need in every state maybe that would stop some of these criminals from feeling free to do what they want with no retribution
Olga = independant thinker
@ Olga: Like walking through a neighborhood with a bag of skittles and an ice tea? I didn't know that Trayvon was a criminal. The stand your ground law will prove itself to be bad. The laws already in place in every state were fine.
i dont know that trayvon was a criminal either but in the same breath he should not have been on top of someone pounding there head on the cement .....some self defense laws are much stricter than you think stand your ground is much clearer
Yes, that's one of the reasons why it only got a 48% match against a baseline, nondistress shout. Next question.
The facts are that Zimmerman was following at a distance (whether or not that was a good idea is in dispute) Martin confronted and attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.
olga-5704164
i really think its sick that it matters weather or not TM was a thief or not, I find it disgusting that any one would cheer for shooting unarmed people, even if that person happens to be stealing some thing. That is sick and something only a scumbag coward would wish for.
I would have shot too, who know if TM was armed or not? Why take a chance and loose your life while some thug is beating the crap out of you!
yes but the best way to avoid getting hit was to not go after TM. But how was TM going to avoid GM, not be black? not be walking down the street?
olga-5704164 this is what can happen when someone is beating the crap out of you, so let me guess you would just let it happen even if you had a way to make it stop, I highly doubt that you wouldn't defend yourself any way you could.
http://wgcl.images.worldnow.com/images/17677795_BG1.jpg
Or how about the teen beaten to death, no marches for him, why the not.
http://wgcl.images.worldnow.com/images/17683368_BG2.jpg described as being full of life, now he was innocent.
Beaten to death by these guys http://wgcl.images.worldnow.com/images/17683368_BG1.jpg
Here is the rest of the story, http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/17683368/teen-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-role-in-douglasville-teen-beating
To bad he had no way of defending himself. Fortunately Zimmerman was able to keep himself from becoming just another victim, Trayvon should have not been bashing Zimmerman's head trying to kill him.
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/videos/full/2012/04/20/5108-image-george-zimmerman-s-bloodied-head-new.jpg
Go back to very first 911 tape and look at the part where TM went toward GZ sitting in his SUV while putting his hand in his waste band in a classic "Gangsta" don't mess with me move.
When Zimmerman was assaulted and in fear for his life he has the right to shoot the person doing it-last time I checked its a felony to attack and beat someones head on the concrete ! I carry a licensed gun with the permit to carry it Attack me and see what happens.
aml1313 did u not read the story, not comprehend the story, or are u just ignoring it? There was a series of break-ins and robberies in the area which is why GZ was asked to be in the community watch. TM fit the profile of every break-in that was reported. That's why he called 911 and followed, that's called being vigilante, not racist.
more like Vigilante!
If zimmerman had said that he was profiling Trayvon because he was black in the 911 call, he would be facing hate crimes charges too.
Clifton: You should advise zimmerman to go around telling everyone that he was profiling Trayvon because he was black.
aml a vigilante wouldn't have called 911, by definition., please learn the difference between vigilant and vigilante. Because the same hyperbole you're using is the same that is beginning to fuel a race war that seems forthcoming by our national media.
Alex abusing profiling is wrong, like profiling strictly because of race to use force. However, profiling is used successfully in almost every law enforcement agency in the civilized world. It's actually just common sense mixed with reported facts. Don't buy into the hype that all profiling is wrong and/or racist
If Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head - IF - he too was standing his ground against some cop wannabe waving a gun at him accusing him of burglary.
i guess they dont know how to respond to the truth ......................good job down below
funny how you accept is a truth the one person who lived through the situation. The other side of the story is dead. Explain to us how you know exactly what happened that night? You don't, you accuse others of assuming and inciting, but then you do the same, just for the other side. Makes it real hard to take anything you have to say seriously.
Explain to us about the true fact that the first police report filled out mentioned no injuries to GZ? How does someone get beaten to within inches of being spoon fed, but its not in the first police report taken? Easy answer. A racist just like you was in charge of gathering the evidence that makes GZ account true. Only problem is they forget about that first police report.
Sounds to me like GZ was a concerned citizen and a good neighbor. I am suprized NBC has printed this since they have been trying to hang him from day one.
every time whites kill blacks, you find and say every thing to make you look good, what is baffling to me is, most of you go to church, why? does that make what you do alright. But let me say this, what go around come around, when you dig one ditch, you better dig 2 because they my be the one that fall in it.as for Jessie Jackson, & Al Sharpton, those are people you all look up to, we know that they are basicly just like the one who made that remark, they are nothing and neither are you, and you can take that to the bank.
if GZ was a real human he would hang him self for this gross thing he has done in the killing of a unarmed human.
Wow! Simmons, with all your typo's looks like you need to get an education. Here's a question about whites and blacks, why is it when a black person gets beat up in a white community its a hate crime. However, when a white person gets beat up in a black community or should I say ghetto, the response is much different. Like..."You should have known better" or "what were you doing in a place you don't belong"? Name me one town that the black community has taken over that is beautiful. After white flight happens the town go down hill fast. In fact most become section 8 housing. Why is it that blacks only make up about 12% of the U.S. population but comprise over 50% of our prison systems? Yes, they're all facts.
The hate laws apply if a black person kills a white person and they can prove that it was motivated by racial hatred. It will be easier to convict a black person.
AST
In every city everybody knows where the bad part of town is, and they know what makes it the bad part of town. All the cities with the highest murder rates, Oakland, Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta, have one thing in common.
AST.... Have you ever been to Ladera Heights or Baldwin Hills in Los Angeles... These are all Multi Million dollar homes owned by Black Families.. I resent you calling black neighborhoods Ghetto. The truth of the matter is GZ did not have to shoot Trayvon. He had the gun. He could of just as easy held him at gunpoint until the Police arrived since he was feeling like John Wayne...But NO.. He chose to shoot. So He should go to Jail.. Don't Pass Go! Go Directly to Jail. PERIOD!!!! Forget all the crap they say happened... He made a bad choice... He had options. I wouldn't have answered him either. He wasn't the Police. And by the way I have the right to remain silent and not be shot because of it.
So what makes the bad part of town bad, is it the geographical location?
Steve, in many cases it is the poverty in those areas. Poverty can limit opportunities. Also, those areas don't have as many jobs available. It would help if more good jobs (of all types) were available in those areas.
This information is from one of the most liberal "read by more than 10 people" news outlets, and it goes a long way toward exonerating Zimmerman. I would hope that this background info, along with 'Trayvon"'s being caught with burglary tools and stole jewelry also makes it into the trial. After all, any exculpatory evidence must be allowed- yes?
wazoo2u you really think that burglary is a capital offense? How China of you!
China?
No it doesn't. John Wayne Gacy was considered a good, upstanding citizen until he started killing people.
Lmao. burglary tools and jewlery? Where is your source for that? Fox News? smh. Let me guess you beleive that the phote that came out 7 weeks after it happened is that of GZ? even though there is no one that can say when that picture was taken (in that no one on scene took it) If no one on the scene took it and it doesn't appear to be a gash in the video, who do you think took it. You not fox news, who do you think took that picture?
Just when I was starting to think that investigative journalism died with Mike Wallace's passing early this month. Kudos Reuters.
Good background on George Zimmerman. It certainly "humanizes" him and doesn't make him into a "monster".
It would be nice to see the same attention reported on about Trayvon, besides the misinformation that has been put out there about his drug, gang, and criminal activity.
I suspect that eventually we are going to find two perfectly decent people who somehow ended up in an unfortunate clash that ended up getting out of control real fast.
are you sure it is misinformation i dont know i have no way of knowing......either way it doesnt make zimmerman guilty of anything
He's guilty of shooting a 17 year old boy to death. A boy he chased so "he wouldn't get away". A boy new to the neighborhood he was staying in who did not know who the adult male was following him.
Yes, he shot a 17 year old to death. That he did.
Trayvon was being followedby Zimmerman. Chase and follow are not interchangeable words. I've been followed from my home, to the store, thru parks, in the mall, down the street and also recorded, videoed and even photographed and all were within the confines of the laws of the USA. Not once would I have even thought of hauling off and smacking any of the people involved. I personally don't want to get shot by not knowing if that is what the person is capable of.
Trayvon made a grave mistake.
What mistake? Walking home from the store? The rest is GZ side of the story. Trayvon never got to tell his side, he was gunned down.
If TM hadn't returned to attack Zim AFTER Zim was returning to his truck he would be alive today. Simple as that. Would I have been spooked if someone I didn't know was following me? OF COURSE! I would have called 911 on the cell phone in MY hand and went to the first safe place near me and would have UNDER NO circumstance gone after the person and attacked him. Did Zim make a mistake? Yes he did. But guess what? His mistake was, while tragic and possibly a little premature, certainly understandable. TM's mistake was not and he paid the price. It is tragic but if you go looking for trouble it usually finds you.
NOTHING points to Trayvon returning OR attacking, it's your sheep mentality....baaaaa...baaaa....baaa..
I heard it, so it must be so.....
looooooooook at the actual facts we know,
NOTHING but GZ's story, no facts!
Following him in his vehicle. Chasing him when he tried to get away. If TM feared for his life from a man that was chasing him, he had every right to defend himself based on SYG. GZ made the mistake of getting out of his vehicle an pursuing and innocent young man. GZ's mistake was not understandable. TM's was. GZ was looking for trouble. TM was trying to get back home.
dont think it is gonna get to a trial a friend of mine is a reporter in central florida he says that the state attorney is thinking about dismissal due to a lack of!!!!!!! real!!!!!!! evidence not internet bull@!$%# or liberals who want to take your gun rights away......it would be a crime to punish someone for defending themself dont you think ....no more jesse no more al no more pink panthers .....just the truth
Well Olga I guess the same can be said for Trayvon, he was defending himself from a man that was clearly following him..He had no clue who this man was for all he knew it could have been a person that was going to rob him or possibly hurt or kill him...oh wait he was killed...Bottom line is Zimmerman was a little overzealous and decided that this kid, who was just walking through the neighborhood, was up to no good. Zimmerman initiated it and obviously he finished it..
Oside, do you consider everyone walking behind you to be "following" you with nefarious intent? As a takeoff on your "for all he knew" statement, for all TZ knew, GZ was simply an ordinary resident walking in the same direction on the same sidewalk at the same time, so what justified TM turning back, confronting and assaulting GC?
@ canemah, what evidence is there that Trayvon turned back besides Zimmerman trying to defend his actions?
Also, we have heard Trayvons gf speak to a conversation between the 2, "why are you following me?", "what are you doing here?" after that who attacked who?
Zimmerman was following Trayvon.
Trayvon was trying to flee.
canewah, who do you think touched who first and with what intent?
and no more racists please. Yes every problem in the world is becuase of liberals. Your bigotry speaks volumes of your intelligence, please smack your parents, they taught it to you.
Yes zim followed Trayvon only to see what was going on. He had turned around and was heading back to his truck when Trayvon attacked him.
Let's have some logic,
Hello? where did you get your facts? FAUX? Right wing bloggers? where?
No logic in your words!
Another possibility: zimmerman knew that Trayvon was going tell the truth so he had to kill him to silence him forever.
The statement: """""These f*cking COONS always get away!!!!!!"""""" without a doubt tells you that zimmerman intended to go back to his truck.
Alex. CA,
Certainly by Trayvons cries for help, it seems that way!
Canemah
If someone is slowly following me in their vehicle I would believe that they are up to no good. When I try to get away and they get out of that vehicle to chase me I would believe that they are up to no good. Quit trying to make it look like TM had absolutely no reason to feel that the person behind him was up to no good.
Donna P-2692688,
Apparently, following slowly by car, then sneaking up behind you is A-OK, in some peoples world! Sheesh...Trayvon had to be scared to death!
The wrong person to be demonized.
This tragedy never should have been used to inflame racial hate.
your right about that......but it certainly has
If the people in the story behave in racist ways, it is impossible to stop people from getting upset.
Anytime Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton along with the Black Panthers get involved, its going to be racist.
race? what does race have to do with killing unarmed human? GZ killed a unarmed person! nothing here changes those facts!
Race made a big difference to florida authorities.
So in your world it's impossible for an unarmed person to kill someone? Or should Zimmerman have waiting until his skull was cracked open before he defended himself?
The argument about being unarmed makes no sense. Have you ever heard of the cops sliding a gun over to an unarmed suspect before they draw theirs out in self defense? No!
That is true, it shouldn't have happened, and it certainly should not be racial. It is not a black or white, or hispanic, or any race against race issue. The problem I see in this, is and this comes after hearing 911 calls, the dispatcher advised him not to pursue the young man, therefore he was not in any way in any kind of danger. If the young man had came to his vehicle or him personally then it would be a self-defend moment, but the fact that he went to the young man, its like he was asking for trouble. I personally don't think it is okay to claim self defense after you are clearly in no danger but put yourself in harms way. If he was "beaten" by the young man he shouldn't have been pursuing him in the first place, but that is an issue. I just say he needs to be punished not from a racial stand point at all. The facts are there. If everyone would sit back and think about it and stop turning it into a race thing, maybe the facts could be open. This is from a non-white, black, or hispanic person, Im Native American and have NO ties with any race involved.
Here comes the character assassinations. What's next some story about how when he was younger he threw rocks at turtles?? I mean really what a joke. This reminds me of the Olympic Bombing in Atlanta when the FBI said they had their man - The Security Guard who was later found to be not involved and sued for $10 Million Dollars and won.
This narrative is well written and shows Zimmerman to be human. HOWEVER, a Black teenager is dead. As far as I can ascertain from this information, Zimmerman was now in his heart and in that neighborhood the equivalent of Chuck Norris, Eastwood and all other actors who play the part of the VIGILANTE!!! HE WAS TOLD NOT TO FOLLOW THIS YOUNG MAN(now dead at his hands and by his gun). Because he - Zimmerman felt so BIG AND BAD WITH HIS GUN AND HIS DOGS, that he had the gall to ignore the police thus, he shot and killed this young boy who is NEVER GOING BACK HOME. Zimmerman is NOT JUSTIFIED in this slaying and if the Prosecutor is "worth her salt", she will find a way to prove JUST HOW WRONG HE WAS, BECAUSE HE ACTED OUTSIDE OF THE LAW.
PS- Are we all then to take the law into our own hands and ignore the police? The Police is there to serve and protect - let them do the job for which they are being paid!!!! LET THEM SERVE AND PROTECT!!!!
stand your ground man ...stand your ground...we have to be able to protect ourselves...with any law there always some unfortunate outcomes.....and this may have been but why was he pounding his head on the cement....seems like some people keep forgetting that
Maybe Trayvon was the one "standing his ground" and fighting a strange, adult male who was following him aggressively with the only weapons he had on him - his hands?
My question is Why didn't George ask him why he was in that gated community? A conversation could have ended the whole encounter peacefully.
Following him aggressively? Now your just making things. In case you are wondering, the investigators have already admitted they don't know who started the altercation. According to TMs girlfriend GZ did ask why he was there and then got punched in the face and his head smashed on the sidewalk.
how do you know what was said...........your reading liberal rags again arent you.....you need to stop believing all the liberal bull@!$%# i happen to consider myself a liberal but i also believe in self defense and innocent until proven guilty by the legal system.......this case probably wont even make it to court....start thinking for yourself and stop listening to the reverans and all the liberal bull@!$%#...oh and i forgot dont listen to the pink panthers either
speakinmymind you better think again if you believe it is the JOB of the police to protect and serve. Many cases even one that has gone to the Supreme Court have found that the police have NO responsibility to protect the individual. The cops main job nowdays is to write tickets to increase revenue, and to right reports AFTER a crime has been commited.
Here in Texas there are many crimes the police wont even investigate,, 1 example a hit and run (my car was totaled) 4 cars involved, but as noone was able to identify the driver or got a full license plate number they will not investigate it, they said thats what uninsured coverage is for. they also said we ( all three others that were involved in the accident ) needed to be able to indentify the driver as they could not arrest a car.
All of these assumptions on what happened are hearsay. The fact is, we don't know what happened when George and Trayvon had their encounter. Trayvon is dead and can't tell anyone his side of the story. Trayvon was being followed by a strange man he didn't know. I believe that Trayvon, instead of fleeing the encounter - which he would have if he were up to no good - tragically decided to confront him. I don't believe that Trayvon knew that George had a gun. If he had, then Trayvon probably would have run. If George was a good shot, then why didn't he just shoot him in the leg or arm? Why is it always, shoot to kill? You don't recover from death. George only suspected that Trayvon was up to no good. He didn't see him commit any crime at all.
It's just sad to think that had George just called the police and let them handle the situation, then Trayvon would still be alive and George would have had his life back to the way it was. As it is, we have one dead man and another man whose life will never be the same.
I don't know if we will ever know the true story here.
Olga
You keep using the SYG statute for GZ but you ignore it for TM. If TM felt that his life was in danger he did not have to flee from GZ he had every right to stand his ground. GZ was the aggressor, he followed and pursued an innocent person. If someone was following me in their vehicle and then when I try to get away the jump out of their vehicle and chase me, I am not going to be thinking that they just want to talk to me, I am thinking that they want to harm me.
Since you are so happy with the SYG statute then TM had the right to as you GZ excusers want to put it "attack" GZ.
This is the best articule come out of MSNBC since this whole thing started, al sharpton and jesse jackson owe Mr Zimmerman and his family a big apology.
I pray that Mr. Zimmerman sues the holy h*ll out of these people after its over.
jesse al and the pink panthers need to permanetley give it a rest people are getting tired of hearing it and since when can you publicly put out a bounty on someones head.....why are they still walking the street
Because they have found out they have lost another one, AND people are asking/demanding there money back. NEXT TIME DON'T SUPPORT THEM.
Tell your congressman to prosecute them for defrauding/evasion of the american tax payers.
I stated from the beginning of this whole thing .......Duke Lacrosse and Twana Brawley. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson involved......it's a train wreck waiting to happen with no conductor on board.
Watch.....No Apoligies.....They will walk away just like every other false claim they make.
This is what Alan Dershowitz had to say:
Yesterday Harvard Law professor and liberal icon Alan Dershowitz appeared on MS-NBC’s Hardball, and declared that the case by the Trayvon Martin special prosecutor Angela Corey is not only weak because it is completely consistent with a claim of self-defense. It is unethical because it omits exculpatory evidence favorable to George Zimmerman. Clearly Dershowitz is disgusted by what he thinks is a politically-motivated over-charging by a grandstanding prosecutor.
http://teriobrien.com/2012/04/13/harvard-law-professor-alan-dershowitz-trayvon-martin-affidavit-so-thin-it-wont-make-it-passed-a-decent-judge/
Great story. Seems he had a promising future ahead of him, until he was faced with a season of trials and tribulations, which happens to everyone at some point in life. It's how we weather those storms, putting complete faith and trust in God, that will determine who you are when the storm is over. Unfortunately, it all boils down to his actions on the night of Feb 26. His disregard of a simple statement of advice, disregard for the life of another person, and the lies told in an attempt to claim self-defense.
give it a break man....same old song...dont you people get tired of hearing yourself
I'm sorry, what 'same old song'?!
it was not self defense it was murder he was stalking him ..........he was beating his head on the ground what did you expect him to do lay there and die while getting his head beat in.....i dont know that trayvon was a criminal but he should not have been beating zimmermans head in simple as that
You know that I am waiting too see? Two concealed weapons individuals meet head on standing your grond. What a shoot out this will be. It's going to happen sooner rather than later.
Why was Trayvon screaming for help, as heard in the 911 call while slamming George's head into the ground? Wouldn't a person commiting an assault not want to draw any attention?
If George shot Trayvon as he was being 'beaten', how did Trayvon end up face first on the ground with his hands under his body? George would've had to have pushed Trayvon off of him. Shouldn't Trayvon be facing up? How did Trayvon end up on his face without any of his blood getting on George's clothes?
Evidence such as these doesn't do a lot to support George's story...even if he was an altar boy. I used to be an altar boy myself, and I used to lie...religion is no qualifier of anything....especially katholicism.
People supporting Zimmerman are also attacking SYG laws for this very reason.
"As long as I get off the first kill shot, they're going to have to believe I was defending myself..."
*pistol-whips self in head*
'Let the bodies hit the floor...'
@AlfredtheGreat
That argument has been made for over 20 years when Florida passed the first major overhaul of CCW laws. It has rarely happened, and when it has, it did not happen legally, IE, people were not justified. Try researching things before spewing misinformation.
As I stated in a previous blog wait until the information is in. So nowwe can all get a look at the scumbags who create hatred for their own gains to inflate their sorry ass egos.
'He's not a violent person'. Sounds violent to me. Two restraining orders, one for violence toward his girlfriend, I don't know about the other, Had a gun, his wife has a gun, they had a dog, he got a Rottweiler, took it upon himself to follow a kid. Wouldn't follow orders from the Dispatcher.
I don't know anything about Martin, except he didn't have a weapon on him. He might have been part of the gang or he might not have. Nothing has been said about that.
Now if someone confronted me with a gun I would assume he or she wanted to kill me. I wouldn't jump him, but if he or she got distracted I'd make an attempt to do something, I don't know what, run, try to take the gun away, a bad idea since it would probably make me dead, or something.
I don't think Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder, rather negligent homicide or manslaughter. If they also add those charges to the primary charge I think that's what he'll end up with getting convicted of. That and simply being stupid.
stupid for defending yourself?....wow that is a new one i think i have heard them all now...he is not going to be convicted of anything...count on it....
Jackieboy, I have several guns and will use them in self-defense. Seems to me that is just what Zimmerman did. Trayvon was wearing his head out. But you got to love that 4th grade picture that MSN continues to run with:) LOL
GZ put him self in this mess. He killed an unarmed kid. People need to learn to leave each other alone. But In America we don't know how to do that. we worry about who is sleeping with whom and their sex. We worry about what drug some is taking. We worry about what the "scary" black unknown male is doing. I speaking for my self i am disgusted that in the year 2012 we still act like this. Gays, Blacks, and all other that are not like you are not your enemy. In fact most of America IS THEIR enemy, they are the ones killed, lynched, and treated unjustly, and looked down upon and given the worse we have to offer. Less chances, more scrutiny, less justice, and more jail time, and more hate. HATE the real American waY!
lol jackieboy, yes 2 restraining orders, one from the ex girlfriend, one from him against the ex girlfriend. From what I have heard what he did was throw her on a bed (ouch ouch).
And don't even try to tell me women can't be violent, if you are tempted just check the list of murderers in U.S.A.
And about the gun, Martin didn't know Zimmerman had a gun, he just realised it after the fight started (which by the way, is another reason why I don't think Zimmerman started the fight).
About the police officer he fought with years ago, if I am not mistaken he was in plain clothes and grabbed his friend, and Zimmerman jumped on him to help his friend, he possibly didn't even know it was a cop.
Aml1313: Trevon was not a kid. He was a young man.
Exactly what order did he not follow?
Even if Zimmerman had continued following at that point, when was he ordered not to?
You don't know about the other one because it doesn't exist. Zimmerman also had a restraining order against the same girlfriend.
Notice the word "alleging" in there. "Alleged", as in "not proven".
Aml- when good people decide to "leave each other alone" you end up in a (racially diverse) community where no less than 8 reported robberies have been reported in just over a year, everyone black white and Hispanic calls the police to report suspicious activity, even black people from the community admit the criminals are mainly black young people, apparently balsy enough to come back to the neighborhood repeatedly even after being reported, where a woman and her child have to barricade themselves in a room and hope the police arrive in time to save them from who knows what fate. Then this scared community elects a citizen from their community to help them, and be there to keep the criminals at bay.
People tend to worry about what unknown young black males are doing after dark in their neighborhood when their neighborhood has continuously been robbed, vandalized, and put in panic by unknown young black males. That is not racism, that is using your brain. I am not saying Martin deserved to be killed, or the entire situation was not tragic, but if either young MAN (in no other situation would you call a 17yr old a kid) had simply acted with a cool head no one would be dead. Of the two of them at least Zimmerman had a reason to be hot headed.
Please. An innocent young man is walking down the street on his way home from the store. He is not lurking in back yards, he is not peering in windows. He notices that someone is following him in their vehicle. He walks toward the vehicle to get a closer look and finds that he doesn't know the person and he attempts to walk quickly away. The person exits their vehicle and pursues the young man for no apparent reason. He is trying to get away, he is not looking for trouble. The young man has no idea what the intention of the person pursuing him is. How was TM to know that GZ wasn't out to harm him in some way? When you attempt to get away from someone who is pursuing you for no apparent reason and they make it a point to not allow you to do that I would think that you would have a reason to be hot headed too. And if GZ was being hot headed because of things that have happened in the past, that is more reason for him to stay in his vehicle and let the police who are trained to have level heads in this sort of situation do their jobs. As a Neighborhood watch "captain" he had an obligation to act with a level head, whether he was "officially" on duty or not. You lead by example and he set a very poor example.
George probably wanted to detain Trayvon and ended up killing him when it got to hot to handle, if the prosecuter can prove that, he goes down for 2nd degree(maybe a stretch), manslaughter most likely... if she doesnt prove beyond reasonable soubt then he walks,,,but i do believe she may have enough for manslaughter if not by Zimmermans words and intent on not letting trayvon go home(may be witnesses to this), and i suspect taking trayvon's gf testimony into account, the last conversation between Trayvon and Zimmerman she(gf) provided points to Zimmerman being very close to the pursuer/instigator....
See thats the problem and uphill battle prosecuter face. Seems only 1 person in this argument is able to talk and no real eyewitness(s). Except maybe homeowners in a victimized neighborhood.
Dwayne - Big leap to a conclusion " George probably wanted to detain Trayvon......" - What thought process brought you to that? Trayvons (GF) so called "statement", from your prospective, "points to Zimmermen being very close to be the pursuer/instigator". How? There have been 2 accounts cited, one she says GZ asks TM "what are you doing here" in other accounts she says she heard "TM asks GZ "why are you following me?"
The actual statement has not yet been released so we really don't know what she heard and what she could infer from what she heard do we? I am merely pointing out that different people put what they believe to be evidence into the context that fits their thought process. That is why we have trials and a jury to listen to all the facts presented.
Actually, there are NOT two accounts of what was said on the phone call: girlfriend says she suddenly hears Martin say "Why are you following me?" and this is followed by Zimmerman asking "What are you doing here?" Then the sounds of scuffle - she herself deduces that Martin's earbuds have fallen out due to being pushed (no way to prove that, of course) - and very shortly the line goes silent. Since both she and Martin had agreed that "escape" was his best tactic, it seems obvious to me that Zimmerman did, indeed, continue to follow him.
dwayne dwayne ....cmon man
Verafish
As I said I have not seen or heard the girlfriend account. If what you say is correct, TM speaking first, call cuts off, and girlfriend/TM had agreed "escape" was the best tactic, then how do you explain that 1 1/2 minutes passed while GZ was on 911 call and had lost sight of TM, the altercation occurred approx 30 yards from GZ car/mailboxes, and TM destination (his dads girlfriends house) was approx 70 yards from where the altercation occurred. Does not sound like "escape". Where was TM for 1 1/2 minutes and why was he still so far from "safety" of the house? I probablly will hear another post that postulates that GZ found TM at the dads girlfriends poarch and took him at gun point back towards GZ car to wait for police.
It was a full 1 1/2 minutes that GZ was still on the call with 911 where he did not know where TM had gone. He even says with resignation "he ran" at 2min 36 sec into a 4 min 8 sec call. GZ lost sight of him. If he was so intent on finding TM would it not be reasonable that he would have mentioned to the 911 dispatcher hey I see him again or he's back, or there he is now, or something . No the call ends and almost instantaniously the confrontation begins and it was way closer to GZ car/mailboxes than it was to the "safety" of TM home.
detain? detain? You know only the police can detain you! Any one else detaining you is kidnapping you! Unless you have committed a Felony!
sure he was in the vicinity of Trayvon. Trayvon doubled back, instead of continuing to his dad's GF's home. Didn't you read above where even the police have no reason to believe that George didn't turn back and head toward his vehicle?
Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, busted his nose, jumped on him and beat his head into the concrete. The 17yr old thug, bus driver beating, breaking and entering, jewelry stealing, dope selling, juvenile delinquent deserved exactly what he got.
If Trayvon hadn't been looking in people's homes, and acting suspicious he would be alive today. If Trayvon hadn't been expelled from school 3 times this year alone, he would still be alive.
How can you attack Zimmerman, he did exactly what anyone else would have done in fear of his life. He did nothing illegal, he did nothing immoral.
The rest of us carry also, and pray we never have to use, but are prepared, just as we need to be.
I'd like to know if Trevon was wearing his gold teeth that night.
@ ric-635471 , 4 reasons for this thought that prosecuter can argue. On the 911 call, Zimmerman stated the below
1. "These @#$%, they always get away" - this speaks to intent
2. "He's running" - Trayvon was in flight responce, not the fight responce
3. "Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?" - Zimmerman was not satisfied with returning to his truck, but following Trayvon.
4. The final conversation(between Zimmerman & Trayvon) and deduction of previous 3 points,, it can be argued that Zimmerman was very close to detaining Trayvon.
@verafish: i second that.
@ric-635471: go re-read and check your timeline please, the last known third party evidence is from Trayvons gf which points to start of physical contact.
@Trevonattacked: he un-lawfully tried to detain Trayvon and ended up killing him, now that is a crime.
If he was in flight response, why did he come back to confront Zimmerman?
Dwayne said "3. "Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?" - Zimmerman was not satisfied with returning to his truck, but following Trayvon." Among all of your points, I want to stress this one. IF Zimmerman had stopped pursuing when he told the dispatcher "OK", wouldn't he have simply told her "I'll be standing by my truck"? He may have made it a short distance up the first sidewalk, but had not yet turned the corner down between the buildings (remember he said he couldn't see Zimmerman anymore?) He would, at some point, HAVE to turn that corner to see Martin again...which we know he did, given where the shooting took place. That fact ALONE proves he continued pursuit...he turned the corner and spotted Martin again. (For those of you who question why Martin didn't continue on home? He may have now slowed - believing he'd lost his pursuer and was now "safe"....and then there Zimmerman is AGAIN approaching him, as we know by girlfriend's statement.)
Because he was in sneak response, not flight response.
Where do you get sneak response from he is running away? That is flight.
Todays 17 yo's are not the sweet little innocent angels they try to make you think they are. Especially if they get around other teens out of their parents site. Juvie court and the boot camps is full of momma and daddies sweet little angels. I'm sure they have some really nice pics of them too when they were 13-14. I'd like to see Trayvons facebook page. I thought my 17yo was a well behaved sweet little angel till I seen their FB. So lets see some background on him too. From being suspended from school for drugs and a screw driver in his locker it seems he was headed down a nice criminal career path. Whats the screw driver for anyway? Gonna shank someone?break into another locker or use it to jimmy a lock or window? Lets see Trayvons history.
jim-343525 even if you paint GZ in the best light, and TM in the worse light. An unarmed man is still dead. And i don't think we should declare open season on every single JD!
"Unarmed" does not mean "cannot kill", especially with the assistance of concrete.
Aml1313 your logic through this entire thread is pure idiocy. We all get that TM wasn't armed so stop repeating it. By your logic if an armed woman is being raped by an unarmed man she can't use her legally liscensed weapon in her defense. Do you think all rapes should just be allowed to happen?? Of course not. It's a ridiculous childish way of thinking. In the real world u can die from being beaten, especially when ur head is being beaten into the ground.
Cool story jackieboy, too bad that isn't what happened between TM and GZ. The second RO wasnt on GM, it was an RO that he place on s the person who place the RO on him. Sounds to me like a couple that didn't get along and ended up mutually disliking each other. Actually jackieboy he did follow the request. He started to follow TM, but once the dispatcher asked him to stop, he did and headed back to his suv, which is when TM confronted GZ. You should really try to keep up jackieboy
"but once the dispatcher asked him to stop, he did and headed back to his suv, which is when TM confronted GZ.." There is no PROOF whatsoever that Zimmerman did stop pursuit and head back to his vehicle. The fact that the skirmish and shooting occurred up between two buildings - nowhere near Zimmerman's vehicle - seems to point to the truth that Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin even after Martin had turned the corner heading down the sidewalk between buildings. In point of fact, the girlfriend's testimony should be able to substantiate that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin, at which point Martin asked "Why are you following me?" You should really try to keep up, bobbieboy.
I've read other comments that say Zimmerman is lying about ending his pursuit because of his distance from his vehicle when the shooting occurred. Maybe I'm slow, but I don't get that; the distance could just as easily indicate how far he had walked on his way back to his vehicle when it happened. The girlfriend's account is important, which is why Zimmerman's side has said they don't believe her; and if the screams for help can be proven to be Trayvon that contradicts Zimmerman's story as well. But how far he was from his truck? I don't think that means much.
kirby59, if you look at a map of the subdivision, where Zimmerman's vehicle was parked and at which point he "lost" Martin (when Martin turned the corner from one sidewalk to another between the buildings) and then see the spot where the shooting occurred, it's pretty easy to deduce that Zimmerman was walking/running up the sidewalk and then was advised to discontinue following....rather than turning back to his vehicle, he would have HAD to continue following, turned the corner and approach Martin who was already well down the sidewalk. Zimmerman has previously stated that he was jumped from behind and cold-cocked....we know from the girlfriend's testimony that that's not what occurred, so it's difficult for me to trust his version of events. Now, all that said, I don't doubt that he may be a decent human being...yet he showed incredible misjudgment that culminated in a person's death. And for that, yes, he should be charged appropriately. I don't believe he set out to cold-bloodedly murder someone, but his actions led directly to a death. I think Martin, too, had every right to defend himself against the stranger who'd been pursuing him.
The earlier suspect did NOT end up getting away, but was in fact apprehended. Even had he not, that far from justifies taking the law into your own armed hands. The hospitalization of his grandmother and father are irrelevant to whether he was justified in following someone whose actions he somehow found "suspicious"--what, other than Martin's age, race and clothing, made his "actions" look suspicious?--Zimmerman's police call mentions no such specific action. Reverse the roles. Series of crimes by suspected whites in a 50% black, 30% white neighborhood. Are blacks justified in arming themselves and following/calling cops on any whites whose actions they deem "suspicious"? Are whites satisfied when said innocent white is shot and killed by said armed black neighborhood watch guard, and no arrest is made?
So give me some history of the martins...............or do they even have any..............
So far all I can make out is the kid was from a broken family. Maybe some issues with TM? There was mention of a step mom, so wheres the real mother?Or what ever.
Jim, TM lived with his mother in Miami. TM was suspended from school for 10 days, so his mom sent him to Sanford to stay with his dad. His dad had a girlfriend that lived in the gated community, which is where TM was returning to
Ok, so now I'm seeing some possible family issues on TM side. Possibly, Mom can't handle him anymore and sent him to dad and his gf's home. Surely it wasn't because he couldn't be left alone by himself while mother worked, he's a strapping 17yo boy, not far from 18yo and almost a man.When I turned 18 my dad told me I was a man and its time I made my own way in the world. I wonder if there was other behavioral problems with TM that the Martin family have failed to tell investigators?
You know there was, he was a devil in disguise from what I have gathered, I mean look at what he called himself on facebook with his gold grill and all.
Who a person associates with tells a lot about them. What they write, the photos they post on public media says a lot as well. Trevon was a thug wannabe.
Finally, a factual article presented in a reasonably objective way. The story actually resembled an exercise in journalism instead of tabloid sensationalizing. I wonder if this will have any affect on the National Lynch Mob demanding Zimmerman be drawn and quartered without a trial or the presumption of innocence?
Let's hear it for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who have taken bigotry to the next level and turned into their own job description. These two self serving opportunists have once again embarrassed themselves. With absolutely no regard for the truth or facts they tilt at windmills and have worked tirelessly to inflame passions and pander to the media displaying their inflated egos. The only racism in any of this was that portrayed by Sharpton and Jackson. They have both sold their souls to CNN and are out of touch with the real world.
No jury will convict ever find Zimmerman guilty once all the facts and all the extenuating circumstance become known. The 2nd degree murder charge was over the top and a political decision rather than a legal one.
you forgot the pink panthers oops black panthers