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Subscribe to RSSJennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted as a den mother for her son's Cub Scout troop because of her sexual orientation, is fighting back. Tyrrell talks to msnbc's Thomas Roberts about her petition to change the Boy Scouts of America's long-standing policy on banning open or avowed homosexuals.
Jennifer Tyrrell and her 7-year-old son have had many rewarding experiences with the Boy Scouts of America, but their participation in the national organization came to an end because she is gay, and the group does not allow open or avowed homosexuals in their membership.
Tyrrell learned the news on April 10. The loss has been devastating.
“We were like a family, so in essence … we lost our scouting family, but they also lost two members of their scouting family,” the former Tiger Cubs den leader from Bridgeport, Ohio, told msnbc.com, at points breaking down into tears.
“The best time in our lives we’ve had in the last year, it’s gone … because we can’t be scouts any more. I can’t stop crying,” she later added.
Tyrrell, a 32-year-old stay at home mother of four, said she agreed to become the den master on the day she signed up her son, Cruz Burns, for the local troop, last year. She had concerns about the Boy Scouts' policy against homosexuals, but a Cubmaster said that – locally -- they wouldn’t have problem.
“He said they would stand, you know, hand in hand with us and stand behind us all the way. Well, actually, that's been true,” she said. “I've never had a problem.”
Boy Scouts spokesman Deron Smith said Tyrrell was removed from the program for being in violation of the national policy regarding homosexuals.
“This policy was understood by her and her fellow volunteers, but not followed, upon her registering in the program,” he wrote in an email to msnbc.com.
Tyrrell said she would still be at home, crying on the couch, if her friends hadn’t encouraged her to hold a protest in town against her dismissal and start a campaign online to seek changes to the Boy Scouts policy.
Courtesy of Jennifer Tyrrell
Jennifer Tyrrell and her son Cruz Burns.
That petition has garnered more than 170,000 signatures
The Boy Scouts’ policy became a focus of the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000, when the justices sided with the organization in a lawsuit involving a former Assistant Scoutmaster who was gay, citing the protections of the First Amendment.
“Scouting, and the majority of parents it serves, does not believe it is the right forum for children to become aware of the issue of sexual orientation, or engage in discussions about being gay. Rather, such complex matters should be discussed with parents, caregivers, or spiritual advisers, at the appropriate time and in the right setting,” Smith said. “We fully understand and appreciate that not everyone will agree with any one position or policy.”
But Tyrrell said sexual orientation wasn’t a topic until her dismissal. The children just knew that Cruz had two moms, but there was no further discussion about sexuality.
She also questioned the timing of the revoking of her membership, claiming that as the recently-appointed treasurer, she was trying to iron out some financial discrepancies – and was going to formally make her queries at a meeting the day she was removed.
“She did raise question about the local unit’s finances, however her removal from the program was solely for being in violation of national policy,” Smith wrote.
Tyrrell said she will continue to push for changes at the Boy Scouts and called on them to take “the high road” and change their policy to include “all Americans.”
“… because we’re just people,” she said. “We’re just gay people who love their kids.”
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The boys scouts is just another reminder that the Christian right do not understand biology. Homosexuality is not a choice. People are born homosexual, they cannot be "cured". My brothers were in the boy scouts and frankly her son is better off not being in it. They think that they are so great when in reality they are just a bunch of homophobes. If they really knew how many gays they already have and kicked them all out they probably would reduce their membership by 25%. And by the way one of my brothers was an Eagle Scout and he is gay. Are they going to take that away from him now. And he was molested by a scout leader, who was punished in the courts. They actually are a disgusting organization.
Its not military camp and nobody makes you join, its like sports in that kids choose to join so nobody has to stay if its not for them---As for the molestation there are perverts everywhere in every place-watch the news
The knee jerk reaction by both sides is depressing, but this I cannot let slide:
Yet another generalization that all Boy Scouts and Scouters are "Christian right". Do you not realize this makes you sound as bigoted as those who rail against homosexuals?
"Christian right", huh?
Click here to see the religious emblem I earned as a Boy Scout.
Points if you name what religion it's for.
Hint: It's not one of the Abrahamic religions.
Grounded...and there are IDIOTS everywhere too...just read the blog comments in here (like yours).
Becky, having a right to your beliefs and discriminating are not the same things. We all have the right to practice any religion or none. That makes religion and, therefore, our beliefs a choice. So we choose what to believe. You have the right to your beliefs; some people disagree with you. What many people do not recognize is that although they have a right to their beliefs, they do not have the right to harm others with them.
The Boy Scouts of America has the right to do what ever they want if they don't want gays in the BOA then to bad for gays not everyone wants to hear it any more I know we are tired of them trying to put their views on US go home and cry but please STFP we don't care.
BSA can solve the problem by becoming a private organization. A private club. That means it is to be completely self-supporting and that it promotes its position and advertising within.
Then the BSA needs to stop taking my tax dollars to support their bigotry.
BSA has become a religious organization. Time to treat them as the private organization they are and allow them no more access to public buildings for free.
They have lied about their concerns. When the anti-gay rules were first announced, they said it was to "keep the kids safe." Now ( mostly trying to dodge accusations of promoting homophobia with that old BS ) it's because they just don't want gays in because it'll raise questions. Sorry, guys, the whole "too troublesome to discuss" excuse doesn't fly when you actively encourage "traditional" family values. In case you didn't notice, that is a matter of sexual orientation, your assumption being that everyone is supposed to be straight to have a place in whatever discussions you have.
This is a policy of discrimination. The BSA claims that they have a right to it, and their discriminatory policy against atheists, as a private organization. Fine. You're a private organization that's allowed to discriminate. That means you're also not entitled to access to public buildings for free. Stick to the churches that you really represent. I will oppose any attempt to use public buildings I pay into maintaining, including schools, for the use of any religious organization that rationalizes discrimination.
I hear that!!
I learned not to join clubs or organizations that have rules I do not agree with. What is so hard about it.
Because we (the public) are paying part of the bill for this club.
youre paying school tax even if you dont have kids for the benifit of children plus a number of other taxes that dont involve you personnally------stop forcing all that hate on something that keeps kids off the street and gives them a foundation to start-im sure they are not worried about attacking your lifestyle where you are----maybe when your too old to help yourself a boyscout will show up to help you
Taxes for schools benefits the entire community. Educated children have a better chance of becoming educated adults with jobs and taxable income that provides revenue that continues to provide funding for roads, police, and other services that even someone who has no children benefits from.
The BSA has been reduced to a religious organization that hides behind "private organization" status when it wants to practice discrimination but still want to use government facilities like schools with PR bull@!$%# about being there for all.
Huge difference.
Becky-God Himself calls eating crabcakes and shrimp cocktails abominations, too. Read Leviticus.
Thanks, Brenda, for that info.....to further strengthen my hypocracy case.....let's pick and choose which "sins" we will and won't commit!
Sooo, the Boy Scouts Administration walks hand in hand with Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist church. I wonder, are there any priests serving as scout master? Naaah. But isn't that child one of the "least of these?" I wonder who said that? Perhaps it could have been . . . Jeesus?
Communities should not support or provide public space to groups that CHOOSE to discriminate.
Yea we should really worry about that light that was left on all night in the library or that maint man at the school left on those lights in a couple of rooms --i,ll probly lose sleep over that ; especially if theres a runaway kid in there spending the night for shelter----boy that really burns me up!!!
No, it's a matter of government agencies not supporting an organization that not only practices discrimination based on sexual orientation, but also religious discrimination.
Of course, that's not going to upset you because you're comfortably in the minority and it wouldn't affect you or take your money to provide facilities for someone you disagree with.
There are so many things to say here. First, this woman's actions were wrong in the first place. When you apply to be a Scout leader, you have to sign a form stating that you are willing to accept Scouting's stance on Atheism and Homosexuality. She had to sign it. In doing so, she defrauded the BSA. Then she accepted a leadership position that should never have been extended by the people who led her pack. By telling her that it would not be an issue, they allowed this situation to happen. However, they made mistakes. They were volunteers (Most adults in the BSA are) and they screwed up. However when National found out, she was removed.This is not surprising. The fact that she acts surprised is what amazes me.
What also amazes me is the idea that people look at the Boy Scouts and say I want to get involved with it. But I want it to change to suit me. The truth is, and I am not trying to insult anyone or sound bigoted, but let's go down the slope. A Lesbian leader is allowed to stay despite defrauding the BSA ( A Scout is honest has just been tossed out the window, and for the majority of Scouts and families, so has morally straight). Now if the BSA allows her, than they also face atheists. An atheist joins, and then is likely to sue to have the religious aspect of Scouting removed. ( Duty to God now gone), and then girls want to be Scouts... they allow them in, and the very basic of the organization (BOY scouts) becomes invalid. At this point, almost all religious groups that charter Scout units would drop out, new groups would need to be willing to start troops and packs from scratch (leaving many areas with no Scouting at all). Also, the main core of leaders now would likely leave with their own children, because at this point, what is left is no longer the Boy Scouts of America that they joined. What really kills me is the irony that people want their kids to be a part of this group, yet if they change it to their liking, they will actually change it into a complete polar opposite of what it is. Their kids would never get the benefits of the Boy Scouts, because to accommodate these groups, Boy Scouting would have to become a different organization. (In some ways it's like a woman who loves a guy marries him and makes him change to suit what she wants, and then leaves because she no longer cares for the person he becomes).
Maybe Boy Scouting is out of date for the 21st century. Much of the rest of the world has the WSO (World Scouting Movement) which allows all young folks and actually has young adult members as well (Boy Scouts are aged out when they become 18) If you want your kids to be Scouts, maybe instead of trying to join BOY Scouts, you should try to get Boy Scouts to retire the current program and start a new one from scratch. Just remember that while it will let kids be Scouts, it will not be Scouting as it exists in the US today, and you will not be likely to have the support or encouragement of many experienced or veteran Scouts, so your leaders will most likely be new ones too. It would also mean the end of Eagle Scouts.
Personally, I'm coming more and more to believe that this last is the only thing that can be done. Despite what a lot of people say, Boy Scouts would be distorted beyond recognition if forced to change to meet the demands people are asking of it. What good would it do to join get Boy Scouts to change if it almost instantly lost almost all of it's current leadership, support structure (charter organizations), and membership? Likely, it would collapse from lack of membership, let alone lack of trained, experienced leadership.
Also, as a parent of a 9 year old boy, I would have a serious issue with anyone who even brings the concept of sexuality into his presence. (And please don't say, it's the 21st century, he'll hear it anyway, it's nothing to be ashamed of) He will eventually learn of these things, but NOT while he's a child. Unfortunately, such things would likely come up if he had a homosexual leader. No parent should have to field questions about sexual relationships (and daddy, why is that man kissing that man or woman kissing that woman? DOES force parents to answer questions when they come up it becomes a sexual issue at that point even if it's a minor one.) when their kid is in the 1st -5th grades. It is also true that accepting a homosexual or atheist leader tells the kids that their beliefs are acceptable, which is quite likely to clash with the beliefs of many of the young kids. this makes the kids have to start choosing whether or not to believe in their parent's beliefs or their leader's years before they should, at the specific point in their lives when they are learning the most from their parents about who they are and what they should believe. This can have serious lifelong effects on the families involved, and cause psychological harm, one way or the other to an unknown number of kids.
By the way, if I have an opinion that differs from someone about what is right or wrong, that does not mean that I hate them or am bigoted towards them. It just means that I don't accept their belief as right. The very idea that the only way I am not a bigot is if I toss my own set of moral beliefs out the window and jump on the bandwagon of people doing things that I believe are wrong is unfair and arrogant to say the least. For one example, I believe that ALL premarital sex is morally wrong. A few years back I was merely called a prude, but unless I amend my belief to say that it is OK for homosexuals, then now I am a bigot and discriminatory (which would make me a hypocrite). I for one would say that unless I target homosexuals in my opinion of sexual immorality, then they have no right to treat me as if I am singling them out.
Damn are you a windbag.
The BSA already changed to suit the agenda of the religious groups that bailed them out. The policies in question wouldn't even be there if it weren't for that. The BSA sold out to the Religious Reich and is no longer the organization that I once was a part of.
This lady set herself up for heartache. I am a gay dad with a 6-year-old son. The views of the Boys Scouts are well known in the gay community. Surely, she can't be shocked by this outcome. It was only a matter of time before she was ousted. I think this mom set herself up for disappointment by enrolling her son in the organization and signing up to be a den mother. Clearly, as a gay person she should be aware of the long history of discrimation by this organization and how they exclude gay people. There are plenty of other fun activities and clubs out there for her son to participate in. Although I respect the outdoor skills taught by the Boy Scouts I will never let my son join because I knew of its anti-gay policy. Life's too short for this kind of baloney, and I would never want him to be part of an organization that treats gay people as second class citizens. Lots of other fun options out there for kids that reinforce respect for ALL people.
Good for the boy scouts. Homosexuality corrupts children, please keep the perverts away from the children and keep it in your bedroom. Children should be taught the correct way(heterosexuality)!!
Would you please cite a source for ANY empirical data to support your statement?
HINT: The Bible doesn't count
Got that right Donald!! and who says the bible dont count idiot who the f-ck are you ?
@99octane
There is nothing biblical about knowing homosexuality is incorrect. Many gay teens commit suicide and have all types of mental disorders growing up. Although homosexuality is legal there is still people who choose to be on the down low. WTF!! Save our children and keep these perverts away from them.
I know some people who were brought up the "correct way". Trucks, army toys, guns, dates with girls in high school....but still they were gay. You obviously have no experience with it. Funny part is that when my friend did come out...I really was not surprised. Best part is he was also in scouts and achieved the life rank. Never once did sharing a tent with him bother me, despite knowing fully well he was not heterosexual.
I'll let others comment on the implication of the usage of the word "correct", but I'll be the pragmatic one and say this much:
At 7 years old (using the age of boy in the article specifically), sexuality shouldn't even be in the "lessons"! In the Cub Scouts at that age, they should be more worried about carving their Pinewood Derby racecar or space ship, what skit they're going to do at the Blue and Gold banquet, or what leatherworking project they want to do...
@forest_spectre
The saddest part is you or anyone else didn't out his perverted ass which allowed him to have perverted thoughts or touch the children. Let's stop playing the pretentious head games and call a spade a spade and pervert a pervert. Save our children and teach them the correct way(heterosexuality).
I pray your children turn out gay lol.
Mr. Price... first of all, you are confusing what is "correct" or "right" for YOU with what is for everyone. If you deny that there are good, law abiding, loving homosexual and lesbian citizens of this and other countries, you're delusional. Sure there are bad ones too, but I'll bet ya that per capita the numbers of bad or good (quantify however you like) straights and gays is pretty darn comparable. Why don't you know that already?
Why are you so homophobic? Maybe a man hit on you once and was too agressive, perhaps unapologetic and even a jerk. That would leave a bad impression. Just like a straight guy hitting on a straight girl in an unwanted, agressive way. But I'm guessing in your case, I don't know why you harbor the bigoted, homophobic views that you do. Enlighten us.
Second, love is love. Period. Quality people can and do raise quality children, whether they are straight or gay. On the other hand, garbage in, garbage out. Look around you in the hetersexual world for multiple examples.
Third, you can't "teach" hetero- or homosexuality. You either ARE, or you ARE NOT gay. Educate yourself before making such outdated and debunked-a-billion-times arguements.
And last, about the Bible... no, it doesn't count, and I'll tell you who the f*ck I am. I am someone who sees that book for what it is, a work of fiction stretched out over centuries, describing a never-ending formula of hate and mind control. Your own post is evidence of that. For other examples, read the posts of obvious Christains here.
I would also like to add that Scouts taught me a lot about being a Leader. As for outing the "pervert": Why would I share someones secret or internal struggles? They were not hurting anyone despite the fact I could see they were causing him great pain. As SPL I punished those who used the term "gay" or "Fag" or any other unclean words for that matter.
That is not a quality I find acceptable for an Eagle Scout. Furthermore, I would have broken almost every rule in the Scout Law (Trust, Loyalty, Courteousness, Kindness). I was raised better than that and have a moral compass superior to yours I can see.
Damn, Donald, u are IGNORANT!! Being homosexual doesn't make u more likely to be a pedophile and if you paid attention to ANYTHING, you would know that most homosexual teens commit suicide because they're taunted relentlessly and if they don't come out, all that stuff gets bottled up and leads to depression which can lead to suicide. As a minority, there is nothing worse in my mind than seeing another minority discriminating against anyone for ANY reason, especially after what went on in the 50's. You, sir, need to understand that just because someone is different, doesn't make you any better than them and it doesn't mean they should have less rights than you. Should we start splitting things like the old days???? Heterosexual and homosexual water fountains????
Kroni3us- so find Santa Claus's match for you at ChristmasMingle.com.....the bible is hypocracy at it's best. God said shrimp cocktails and crabcakes were abominations just like homosexuality yet mad people are stuffing their faces with it, right?!?!?! Hypocrites!! Let's choose when and where to sin, right?!?!?
Do not feed the troll...do not feed the troll...do not feed the troll...
@99octane
Straights and gays are not pretty darn comparable because ALL homosexuals are perverts no matter how nice, good, law abiding or loving citizens they maybe. They are better comparable to Pedophiles because they both claim they're born to commit perverted sexual acts.
There is no gay gene. There is nothing gay in the X or Y chromosome so this tells any logical mind that homosexuality is not a part of the blueprint when Nature is creating the human body, thus making homosexuality artificial. Sorry human beings are not born to commit disgusting perverted sexual acts.
Second, If love is love. Period as you say then Pedophiles should be able to love children without interference. Don't feed that BS love is love line. There is a big difference between perverted love and Natural Love. There is a reason most gay relationships don't last without them bringing in an outside sexual partner.
Third, You can teach heterosexuality(6th grade sex education) and homosexuality(perverted sex). If an environment is gay-friendly then the children will probably experiment with perverted sexual acts growing up and become confused later in life about how to use theie sexuall reproductive organs properly. If you teach the correct way(heterosexuality) then there much more likely to use their sexual reproductive organs correctly and eventually have off-spring and/or a family.
The bible has nothing to do with my post. I have never mentioned the bible. There is nothing biblical about knowing homosexuality is incorrect.
@forest_spectre
Because most homosexuals are pedophiles if you don't believe me Google: NAMBLA They're a part of the LGBT community and a proud organization with parades and a website to recruit new members. It sad that you didn't report the pervert and have him moved to a position that he wasn't around children.
@DAUNDADOG
Race and homosexuality are 2 completely different things. Race is not a choice, Homosexuality is a subconscious or conscious choice based upon environmental factors. I discriminate on pedophiles, homosexuals, perverts(gay or straight) because they CHOOSE to be perverts. If a pedophile approached my son I would beat him down, If a homosexual approached me I would beat him down regardless the repercussions.
Why is the bible coming up in this conversation? I never once mentioned the bible. There is nothing biblical about knowing homosexuality is incorrect.
From a guy (Donald) who has probably bred 10 children he's not supporting, while calling their mothers "hoes". He's the reason why there are gay women.
Brenda, that's quite racist. Is it a surprise that homosexual men have a preference for young boys in the 15-17 range?
@ DONNALD
Because most black people are criminals if you don't believe me watch an episode of COPS. It's sad that I don't report you so you can go to prison.
How do you like being lumped into a group, sir? I know better than to make such broad assumptions regarding race and I'm sure you do too. It's hateful and there is no truth behind it. Furthermore there are no statistics to back up your claim.
Does it matter that being black is not a choice? It didn't to Trayvon Martin or Rodney King? The bottom line is that we like to discriminate, and black people are just as bad if not actually worse than most people, because we really should know better. Scientist have not found a gene for left-handedness, either, but most of us would agree that it is biological. Many people are already calling for the abortion of gay babies and eugenic studies to eradicate homosexuality. See, homosexuality is as old as dirt. Where did it come from? It precedes the Bible. Further, all of this diversity in this world, but we're to believe that there is only one sexual orientation? That's absurd! And many behaviors are instinctual or biological. Studies show, too, that those with the least education are the most homophobic. And in the African American community AIDS is an epidemic because there are so many big mouthed men like you who are on the "down-low" having unsafe sex, because you're unprepared because you're being sneaky. The African American community is made up of the biggest group of liars I've ever come across when it comes to sexuality. We're basically just all over the place, but espouse heterosexuality. Show me an African American heterosexual, and I'll show you someone who has had homosexual sex.
Vincent, I am black, and I'm tired of a bunch of ignorant, criminal whiners. If they weren't out committing so many crimes, dropping out of school and making the lives of women and children so miserable, they wouldn't be tagged as criminals every time something happens. Everyone has to deal with stereotypes, including the gays that he's typing. And these men want to be seen as geniuses when they choose to stay ignorant. Like one black friend of mine said, She knew no black man abducted Susan Smith's children, because they don't even want their own. We call white people racist although we cross the street when we see a bunch of black teenagers hanging on the street corner. When we do it, it's called smart. After all, you have to go with your instincts. Right. As for Trayvon Martin, it was murder or manslaughter at the least. But Rev Jesse needs to come back to Chicago and march down these streets every time these guys kill each other. Does the race of the killer matter? After all dead is dead.
Donald, PROVE to me that homosexuality is a choice!! Simple as that....that's your OPINION and not a FACT...Even if it was a choice, there should be no repercussions just cuz u don't agree with it. I don't like racists so should we beat them all up?? I don't like Republicans, should we beat them down?? I like to wear hoodies, should I get shot down?? No, and those are all CHOICES......If you don't like something someone does and it's not physically hurting you, then leave them alone and understand that EVERYONE deserves the same rights as you as long as they live in peace!!
One more thing, how do you know most gay relationships require an outside partner to last?? How do you "know" so much about homosexuality?? Hmmm, are you in the closet???
Mr. Price is welcome to his opinion. He's the type of person whose idea of "common sense" automatically assumes that a gay man must have an interest in little boys while having no problem with a man coaching a girl's basketball team.
So you are suggesting laws against: incest, polygamy, pornography, prostitution should be repealed?
And what about: forgery, theft, embezzlement, bribery, and vandalism?
Engaging in homosexual behavior is a choice, just like wearing a hoodie.
Let's think about genetics. Two identical twins. One later in life engages in homosexual behavior. What is the likelihood the other will as well? If the answer is anything less than 100% those that claim it is not a choice but how they are born have a problem. (The correlation is only 52%. Probably very close to the same correlation both would wear hoodies.)
She's not gay...she's a lesbian. Honey, enroll your children in the Girl Scouts, they accept everyone.
This whole issue has been addressed on SOUTH PARK, about ten years ago. And they nailed it. The parties involved in the article, not to mention the majority of commenters here in this thread, could learn something from that episode.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I F-ing love it !! Just another crybaby gay !!! YESSSS made my day
Why will a Gay (lesbian) mom have Children? If she is lesbian, how can she have a child?
1. any artificial methods (in-vitro) just to have kids but no contact with men?
2. unless she adapted this child or is it from the other lesbian partner? How can 2 lesbians bring up a child?
Only in America - Weird people
MSNBC is full of these stories - Why ?
Is the staff populated with many Gays and Lesbians and they think this is mainstream news?
Adapted him from what? A llama and a mannequin?
I believe that if she was accepted as a host den mother,regardless of her orientation from the beginning then there shouldn't be a problem now. If the parents in the community didn't have a problem sending there children to her scout meetings why after all this time remove her. Think of all the hours she put in volunteering her time and opening her home also sharing in the scouting experience with her son who is going to be affected by this as well. I believe the Boy Scouts of America should reconsider their decision.
It only serves to show the real disconnect between National Council and local Units. Den Leaders only have to be approved at the local Unit level and kept on file at the local Council. National Council doesn't concern itself with each adult application, except for those applications deemed "Professional Scouters", and it certainly isn't running background investigations on each one presented across the Nation.
I still think we're missing a part of the story. According to the story, she was well liked by the parents and other Scouters. If that's the case, and given that she's not a public figure (well, not until now at least), National Council shouldn't have had any reason to even look at her. We're missing something here. Someone had to complain - either a parent or a fellow adult leader - to turn National Council's attention on her.
way to go boy scouts keep gays out!!!!! dont teach our kids that this discusting acts are right!!!!!
Which acts are you talking about?
Good for the Boy Scouts - the last thing we need in the world is to start turning kids queer before they can drive a car. Like come on, what did she think was going to happen? We can't have fruit cakes working with kids - it is just is wrong virtually in every possible way. The she man should go out and join some queer club that accepts weirdos as she obviously isn't wanted mainstream.
Can you explain how people "turn" gay?
We have the BOY scouts, and the GIRL scouts, not the I DONT KNOW scouts.
It's the den mother, not a scout.
Pay attention
She, I mean He, I mean She???? Can be a Den Mother, I mean Father, I mean Mother???? of the I DONT KNOW SCOUTS, when someone like yourself starts up that organization. Sounds like a perfect job for you Sir, I mean Mrs, I mean Sir, I mean Mrs???? Get a life! Grow some balls, I mean breasts, I mean balls, I mean breast, oh hell, I give up!
She hasn't claimed to be male - - - lots of Den mothers in the scouts.
You need to give up
Hahahaha. Typical...
I am sure that Barry will have Eric Holder on this asap!
Mr. Price... first of all, you are confusing what is "correct" or "right" for YOU with what is for everyone. If you deny that there are good, law abiding, loving homosexual and lesbian citizens of this and other countries, you're delusional. Sure there are bad ones too, but I'll bet ya that per capita the numbers of bad or good (quantify however you like) straights and gays is pretty darn comparable. Why don't you know that already?
Why are you so homophobic? Maybe a man hit on you once and was too agressive, perhaps unapologetic and even a jerk. That would leave a bad impression. Just like a straight guy hitting on a straight girl in an unwanted, agressive way. But I'm guessing in your case, I don't know why you harbor the bigoted, homophobic views that you do. Enlighten us.
Second, love is love. Period. Quality people can and do raise quality children, whether they are straight or gay. On the other hand, garbage in, garbage out. Look around you in the hetersexual world for multiple examples.
And last, about the Bible... no, it doesn't count, and I'll tell you who the f*ck I am. I am someone who sees that book for what it is, a work of fiction stretched out over centuries, describing a never-ending formula of hate and mind control. Your own post is evidence of that. For other examples, read the posts of obvious Christains here.
Rules are rules. If you homosexuals do not like it then get the hell out of this country. Go to France!
That's clever.
How about heterosexuals who don't like it?? Do we need to go to France, too???? Idiot.......
How about just don't join the Boy Scouts which is a private religious affiliated organization? Or in your case, move to somewhere near equator, very hot, so you can get use to the climate for a very long, long time....
How about you bigots go first!
Then how about the Boy Scouts stop using our public buidings and our taxpayer money????? As long as they're using taxpayer dollars and facilities, we can complain as much as we want!!
Only humans could come up with a situation like this!!
Why!!! Why!! If there were no people who would object to this situation fine!! but you know there isn't!!!!
They have Girl Scouts for girls!! and Boy Scouts for boys!! I can just see girls in the Boy Scouts!!! and boys in the Girl Scouts!!!!! OH WHAT A NIGHT!!!! this is without a doubt the most craziest idea of our time!!!
Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These
shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in
the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the
seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing
which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye
shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the
waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Deuteronomy 14:9-10 says:
9
These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales
shall ye eat:
10 And whatsoever hath not fins and
scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
SO THE BIBLE SAYS SHRIMP, CRAB, LOBSTER, MUSSELS AND SO ON ARE ABOMINATIONS, JUST LIKE HOMOSEXUALITY YET ALL YOU HYPOCRITES ARE STUFFING YOUR FACES WITH RED LOBSTER AND CALLING GAYS THE DEVIANTS!!!
ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE WHO ARE ANTI-GAY ARE GOING TO HELL!!!
Love,
DaUndadog
Dear DaUndadog,
"Anti-gays are going to hell" follow with "love"? Wow, how did you derive your theological hermeneutics? Even if hypothetically speaking, your OT interpretation is correct, that still doesn't make homosexuality acceptable biblically. Two wrongs does make a right.
Your issue should be left for Judaic scholars and you to iron out. For Christians, try researching into the below passage from Acts 10. You and the gay activists will not make it to heaven because God is Holy and what is abominable cannot be with Him (read Revelation 21). He wishes all can be with Him, but 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did notcomprehend it (John 1). Jesus is the Truth and you cannot change the Truth by your distorted words with vile intention of trying to justifying what is defiled.
Acts 10
Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 11 and he *saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of theair. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longerconsider unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky.
Homophobic Christians will be remembered by posterity just as fondly as Southern Baptist KKK members are remembered today.
In fact, here's a glimpse at the future:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/future-us-history-students-its-pretty-embarrassing,19099/
Who cares? Not everyone follows your bible nor does god or the bible make our laws!
Is that supposed to be "christian love?"
DaUnDaDog - You fail to understand the commands to the nation of Israel are not commands to Christians. There was no Christianity in the time when Leviticus was written. It is not our covenant. It is not our testament.
Humble.....my interpretations are based on the very words of your holy book and just proves how people will eat crustaceans although your god said it was an abomination, just like homosexuality.....so according to your holy book and even what you wrote in response to my post, you all cannot join your heavenly father when you die and the fact that you decide that shellfish and crustaceans are ok to eat but homosexuality isn't shows what hypocrites you guys are. One wrong doesn't make it right, either!!....The love is somewhat sarcastic but I don't hate anyone regardless of the ignorance they show......
Gordy, first of all, I'm an atheist so when I die, I'm comfortable knowing that I'm going to rot in a box or sit in an urn....secondly, who's side are you on??? That made no sense.....
Oh, forgive me, Jeff....I forget how many different people make up their own rules about what gets them into heaven.....sorry, but if there's one god running the show, there should be one set of rules....I love how everyone bends the rules to suit their own desires....lol
As am I.
Your use of scriture is odd considering you're an atheist. I've seen many theists post such scriptures to justify themselves or their bigotry. My post is simply a reply to that use of scripture.
OK, Gordy.....was just using their own scripture to prove their hypocracy...
I see. Thanks for clarifying.
Daundadog - I said nothing about getting into heaven. I am merely pointing out sound principles of interpretation of a text. The Bible is not one comprehensive list of rules given to man so that we all have to follow. Because one person was told in the Bible to go and bathe in the Jordan River does not mean I must do that or fear God's wrath. I know HOW to READ and UNDERSTAND what is written in its correct context.
I have never said that a person that commits homosexuality will not get into heaven. I hope and pray they all can. But I will say that engaging in homosexual activity is clearly defined as a sin in the New Testament, along with lying, stealing, anger, envy and many other things.
What I do not like to hear, is people trying to say that sin is not sin.
I might envy. But I don't argue that envy is not wrong. It is a sin and if I find forgiveness for that sin, then in my life I can enjoy the firstfruits of the kingdom of Heaven here and now.
Well, their rules do need to change. An organization like the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts shouldn't have the right to exclude leaders based on gender preference. It's like excluding leaders based on skin color or religious preference. I mean, if they write into their by-laws that Jews aren't allowed to be Scout Leaders or Blacks aren't allowed to be Scout Leaders or people who draw unemployment aren't allowed to be Scout Leaders, that would obviously be unethical even if they had their reasons that 19.6% of Americans could understand. Stupid rules should be challenged. This is a stupid rule. Rules based on the idea that homosexuals are not as good as heterosexuals should be changed. It's not like I want the Constitution to be re-written. I just want common sense and kindness to prevail.
The First Amendment allows private organizations to set membership standards. It has been upheld by the supreme court. They cannot be legally pressured into changing their policy. I was a boy scout when I was young and a lot of fond memories from that time. My son, by his own choice, will not have anything to do with them now nor will I ever support their fundraising activities.
Very true, but they also benefit from certain state and federal sponsorship and subsidies. No other religious group (which the BSA largely is) or private group receives such taxpayer subsidies.
Do Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have the right to exclude members based on sex?